#clojure – 2014-04-30

2014-04-30

00:51	TerranceWarrior	Are there objects in Clojure? If not, What replaces it?
00:51	beamso	you still have java objects. you can use clojure records as well.
00:51	TimMc	TerranceWarrior: Clojure is on the JVM, so you have basically everything you have in Java.
00:51	TimMc	TerranceWarrior: What functionality do you want?
00:52	TimMc	If you want composite data, Clojure has maps.
00:52	TimMc	If you want to collect similar pieces of code, you probably want namespaces.
01:05	arrdem	if you want to have maps with similar pieces of code, prepare to do evil things!
02:57	mpenet	ambrosebs: hi! is it possible to annotate a defmethod? the warnings seems to indicate it should be possible but I dont see how in the docs
02:58	ambrosebs	mpenet: have you tried `ann`?
02:59	mpenet	I didn't, but how do you indicate "annotate this method for this dispatch value" (I annotated the defmulti already)
02:59	ambrosebs	it's inferred based on the dispatch function
03:00	ambrosebs	what's your dispatch fn?
03:00	mpenet	https://github.com/mpenet/alia/blob/feature/core.typed/src/qbits/alia/cluster_options.clj
03:00	mpenet	https://github.com/mpenet/alia/blob/feature/core.typed/src/qbits/alia/cluster_options.clj#L44
03:02	ambrosebs	mpenet: It doesn't look like the dispatch value implies certain types in defmethods?
03:02	ambrosebs	you just do different things based on the keyword?
03:02	ambrosebs	oh the second arg changes?
03:03	ambrosebs	*third
03:03	mpenet	yes, I'd like to typecheck second ard
03:03	mpenet	arg*
03:03	mpenet	I mean third yes :)
03:04	ambrosebs	mpenet: you probably need to enumerate all the cases in the annotation to the defmulti
03:04	ambrosebs	that might work
03:06	ambrosebs	the simplest thing would be to add a cast in each method
03:06	mpenet	ok
03:06	ambrosebs	{:pre [(instance? RetryPolicy policy)]}
03:06	mpenet	ah right, should have thought of this
03:07	ambrosebs	I'm not very vocal about casts right now since support is poor :)
03:07	ambrosebs	will change soon
03:07	mpenet	thanks!
03:08	ambrosebs	oh and a :no-check'd defmulti implies the defmethods are no-checked
03:09	mpenet	Yep I know, I am starting like this and will gradually get rid of these
03:09	ambrosebs	cool
03:09	mpenet	I want to annotate all the public parts already
04:12	l3dx	I'm trying to find an open source java project that is well suited as a java->clojure porting exercise for beginners. Was thinking of the spring petclinic sample. Anyone thoughts, or other suggestions?
04:21	amalloy	l3dx: why would you port a program from java to clojure? if it's already there in java, just use it
04:21	l3dx	as an exercise
04:23	l3dx	the motivation is to learn by doing it, and also being able to compare the resulting FP solution to the OOP solution
04:25	noidi	I doubt that porting would lead you to an idiomatic Clojure solution
04:26	noidi	of course you can create an application that's functionally identical, but I wouldn't try to translate the Java source into Clojure
04:27	l3dx	I see your point
04:28	l3dx	so "porting" was kind of misleading
04:32	wink	bit sick of blog engines :P
04:32	wink	l3dx: I'd search for something with text output as you probably wouldn't be able to reuse the real testsuite of a project anyway
04:33	wink	then again it depends on how closely you want to mock it.
04:35	amalloy	l3dx: one approach i've seen people take is to have a sort of toy application that you re-implement in every new language
04:36	amalloy	then you're not always struggling for new ideas, or writing hideous ports because you want to mirror functionality from the wrong language
04:36	amalloy	eg, a scheme interpreter, or a webserver that implements the equivalent of /usr/bin/wc for POSTed inputs
04:41	l3dx	yes, I like that idea
04:43	l3dx	I don't have any that fit, but maybe some of my collegues have. we're a group at work trying to get better at FP. the comparison is mostly to convince managers to adopt :P
05:56	ProTip	Hello.
05:56	ProTip	Is there a way to macroexand a call to a method using a threading macro?
05:56	ProTip	*function
05:57	ProTip	if I use defmacro to create the macro for some reason I can't use macroexpand-all to see how it turns out.
06:05	maxthoursie	ProTip: (macroexpand-all '(-> 1 (* 2) (+ 3)))
06:07	maxthoursie	,(* (+ () ()) (+ () ()))
06:07	clojurebot	4
06:07	maxthoursie	neat :)
06:24	ProTip	@maxthoursie Thanks, but what if I had the macro bound to a variable and wanted to expand that?
06:28	oskarth	If I find myself assoc and dissocing the same map, what should I be doing? Is there some nice destructuring way to do it at the same time? Rather than let [action (:action p) item (dissoc p :action)...]...)
06:30	clgv	oskarth: no not really. but you can use threading macros, e.g. (-> my-map (assoc :a 42) (dissoc :c))
06:30	oskarth	clgv: true, but I need access to both separately
06:31	clgv	oskarth: oh you mean extracting an item and removing it
06:31	oskarth	I was thinking something like [[:action] & rest] or so
06:31	clgv	oskarth: there is keyword-based destructuring but there is no "& rest" equivalent
06:32	oskarth	I want to use both action and item separately in other let clauses
06:32	oskarth	I see
06:32	clgv	,(let [{:keys [a] :as m} {:a 42, :b 11}] [a (dissoc m :b)])
06:32	clojurebot	[42 {:a 42}]
06:32	clgv	oops
06:32	oskarth	it's almost a partition by keys
06:32	clgv	,(let [{:keys [a] :as m} {:a 42, :b 11}] [a (dissoc m :a)])
06:32	clojurebot	[42 {:b 11}]
06:34	clgv	,(defn pop-key [m k] (let [v (get m k)] [v (dissoc m k)]))
06:34	clojurebot	#'sandbox/pop-key
06:35	clgv	,(let [[a rest-map] (pop-key {:a 42, :b 11} :a)] (println a rest-map))
06:35	clojurebot	42 {:b 11}\n
06:35	clgv	oskarth: you could also write a custom-macro for that if it is really worth it
06:35	oskarth	not really, just wondered if there was a neat trick for doing it in one line, similar to destructuring for vectors
06:36	oskarth	thanks though
06:36	oskarth	maybe it can be done with spit/group/partition-by but couldn't figure out how
06:40	clgv	do you want to do that repeatedly for all keys? otherwise I dont see why you would want to use group-by/partition-by?
06:43	oskarth	nope, just to split it like a set based on keys, but it isn't a real problem, more curiosity
06:49	pyrtsa	oskarth: You could use the result of (juxt k #(dissoc % k)) for that but it's a bit contrived.
06:51	oskarth	pyrtsa: hm, that's true. But yeah, doesn't do much for readability in this case
07:05	mpenet	ambrosebs: another question: When I try to check-ns with this definition for set-hayt-query-fn! I get an exception that I am not sure I understand fully: https://gist.github.com/mpenet/a7b7726a28017bf2c6ec#file-gistfile1-clj-L66-L77 -> ExceptionInfo Cannot set! non-assignable target clojure.core/ex-info (core.clj:4403)
07:06	mpenet	using the commented version without set! checks.
07:12	mpenet	seems quite odd, no-check seems to have no impact here btw
07:25	mpenet	it seems to come from https://github.com/clojure/tools.analyzer.jvm/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/analyzer/passes/jvm/validate.clj#L60
07:25	mpenet	ah I got it... nevermind.
07:27	grimmulfr	With the risk of getting flamed for this, how in the world can I use more than one :use or :require? What's the correct syntax? I have a project that has (:require [jayq.core as jq]) but I need to add crate on there also.
07:27	agarman	you can use multiple or just put multiple symbols in one
07:27	mpenet	(:require [jayq.core as jq]
07:27	mpenet	[something.else :as foo])
07:28	agarman	exactly
07:28	grimmulfr	Cheers. I tried something similar and still got the error, must've done something wrong
07:28	mpenet	your example is broken
07:28	mpenet	as -> :as
07:28	grimmulfr	I used :as, just typed wrong in here
07:29	l3dx	read the docs :) http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/use
07:29	agarman	I recommend a quick read of http://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html
07:29	grimmulfr	Thank you
07:29	agarman	Colin Jones explains the usage clearly and updated it recently to reflect changes to require
07:32	locks	it's one of the more confusing parts of clojure I've come across so far
07:33	agarman	it definitely needed a clear explanation
07:36	martinklepsch	agree very much. the basic rule of thumb is "use :require almost always", right?
07:37	agarman	I only use require now
07:37	martinklepsch	remember that I came back to that 8th light article every couple of days when I started clojur'ing
07:37	agarman	and require :refer instead of use
07:37	agarman	except with java
07:37	agarman	then you have to use import
07:37	martinklepsch	agarman, yeah thats my understanding as well
07:37	martinklepsch	agarman, didn't get to that so far (luckily?)
07:39	agarman	I'm always stuck doing interop for something or another...there's a lot of java, scala & groovy libraries that provide great functionality that I don't want to rewrite :-)
07:39	xsyn	where did all the pedestal docs go?
08:02	gtrak	is there a way to set the bytecode version for AOT?
08:02	gtrak	IE, I'm running java7/8, user might be using 6.
08:04	agarman	in your project.clj
08:04	gtrak	agarman: details?
08:04	agarman	:javac-options ["-target" "1.6"]
08:04	gtrak	ah, but that's for java itself, what about clojure AOT?
08:04	gtrak	I'm considering just making a java stub, though.
08:05	agarman	I'd be disappointed if it doesn't use the lcd setting for AOT
08:05	gtrak	(clojure doesn't use javac for classgen)
08:05	gtrak	I've definitely run into problems before, at least with lein 2.0.0
08:10	gtrak	I can just skip it and use clojure.main I suppose
08:11	clgv	gtrak: clojure aot is java 6 compatible since that's the minimum requirement since clojure 1.6
08:11	gtrak	you'd think :-)
08:12	clgv	you got a counterexample?
08:12	gtrak	sure, I could :aot :all something up and find the bytecode version with javap, one sec.
08:15	gtrak	huh, ok, maybe not.
08:15	gtrak	that's weird. must be something project-specific.
08:15	clgv	gtrak: I just AOT compiled a complete project myself and checked serveral class which reported version 49 corresponding to java 5 although using clojure 1.6
08:16	gtrak	clgv: yea, I'm just sure I've been bitten by this before, but that's a much more complex project.
08:16	clgv	gtrak: AOT with different clojure versions will bite you
08:16	gtrak	I've been bitten that way, too.
08:17	clgv	gtrak: I ran into that several times when migrating from 1.2.1 to 1.3 ;)
08:17	clgv	stale class files and such hoorray ;)
08:17	mdrogalis	Just hopped into the channel, but yes. Take Storm for example. AOT is killing that project off slowly.
08:17	mdrogalis	It's AOT'ed for 1.4
08:18	clgv	mdrogalis: does the library need to be AOTed?
08:18	mdrogalis	clgv: IMO no. But it is right now.
08:19	clgv	mdrogalis: it's open source right?
08:19	mdrogalis	clgv: Indeed. Apache.
08:20	clgv	mdrogalis: humm well, upload a non-AOT lib to clojars for yourself ^^
08:20	clgv	you can always AOT all of the application as uberjar in the end...
08:20	mdrogalis	clgv: It's a rather hairy project, taking out the AOT bits isn't trivial.
08:21	clgv	mdrogalis: oh I understood you wrong then. so refactoring is needed to get rid of the aot...
08:22	mdrogalis	clgv: Yeah, sorry for the misunderstanding. It interops heavily with Java.
08:22	agarman	more of storm is written in java than clojure now-a-days
08:23	mdrogalis	And the Clojure bits are mostly wild macros.
08:23	gtrak	and I was using backtype as a shining example of clojure acquisition just a couple weeks ago :-)
08:24	clgv	spouts and bolts :P
08:24	mdrogalis	Those abstractions make me angry lol
08:24	agarman	I'm in process of setting up hadoop + spark stuff here... I liked storm when I used it a couple years ago, but seems to be momentumless now
08:24	clgv	that example looks spanish to me ;)
08:24	mdrogalis	It's just soo.. Unnecessary.
08:24	clgv	spanish with a lispy flavour
08:25	mdrogalis	agarman: A friend is putting a ton of good words about Spark in my ear. What do you think?
08:25	clgv	ah damn, in english it is "looks greek to me", right?
08:25	mdrogalis	The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain :)
08:26	agarman	I liked spark. It was an improvement over cascading. Spark stream is what I'm likely building an upcoming app around
08:26	rkneufeld_	xsyn: they're all in the main repo: https://github.com/pedestal/pedestal/tree/master/guides
08:27	mdrogalis	Understood.
08:36	mdrogalis	agarman: PM
09:11	jcromartie	I keep going back and forth between pulling apart the Ring request and passing the relevant pieces to a well-defined function, and just cramming everything in the request map and writing all of my functions in terms of that instead.
09:11	jcromartie	particularly when it comes to view rendering
09:12	jcromartie	so many things in the view have to be done relative to bits of the request… :\|
09:13	klzzvn	i'm trying to import a Java class and create an instance of it - all at runtime... this is what i got so far
09:13	klzzvn	https://gist.github.com/klzzvn/3d24229a68f22cc8a86e
09:13	klzzvn	what's the problem at the end? why can't it (new) the class?
09:14	clgv	klzzvn: wrong usage. (new MyClass ...) or (MyClass. ...)
09:15	clgv	klzzvn: though you should use (import 'javafx.scene.shape.Circle) and then (Circle. ...)
09:16	klzzvn	clgv: that's the point, I can't use regular import because i have to import the class at runtime
09:16	clgv	klzzvn: ah now I understand that you want to use the class object from the function. that wont work, you need a class at compile time for "new"
09:16	klzzvn	and i don't know the name of the class, so i cant do (new MyClass)
09:16	klzzvn	clgv: any other way to create an instance? besidesusing newInstance
09:17	clgv	klzzvn: java reflection
09:17	jcromartie	klzzvn: how about a macro
09:17	clgv	klzzvn: you could use "eval" though
09:18	clgv	klzzvn: (eval `(new ~(symbol "javafx.scene.shape.Circle") ~arg1 ...))
09:18	klzzvn	clgv: waaaaaaaait, let me try that...
09:19	clgv	after you made sure the class is loaded, though
09:19	klzzvn	i think it work!!! :)
09:19	klzzvn	but how? what the difference between evaling and just (new) in the code?
09:19	clgv	be careful with "eval" in general.
09:19	klzzvn	i'm still very new to clojure...
09:20	clgv	you generate code at runtime and eval compiles and runs it.
09:20	klzzvn	clgv: isnt' that the same way the REPL works? and if i try to (new) in the REPL it still fails...
09:20	clgv	a rough picture is described as: you trigger a compilation at runtime
09:20	klzzvn	I thought REPL is some kind of eval...
09:21	clgv	yeah it is. but the problem is you want your code to run without a REPL as well ;)
09:21	klzzvn	as far as I get it, the REPL reads the text, makes clojure data structures out of it, and evals it...
09:21	clgv	correct.
09:21	klzzvn	well, yeah :) but the example fails in the REPL too
09:22	klzzvn	just putting (new (sneaky-import ".....")) in the REPL fails
09:22	clgv	,(import 'java.util.Date)
09:22	clojurebot	java.util.Date
09:22	klzzvn	and putting your (eval .....) works
09:22	clgv	,(new Date)
09:22	clojurebot	#inst "2014-04-30T13:18:00.660-00:00"
09:22	Anderkent	is there any way of making this not so ugly: &(apply str (interpose \- (map (partial apply str) (partition 2 "123456789012"))))
09:23	Anderkent	ugh, I never remember what the command is to eval in mid of text
09:23	Anderkent	,(apply str (interpose \- (map (partial apply str) (partition 2 "123456789012"))))
09:23	clojurebot	"12-34-56-78-90-12"
09:23	clgv	Anderkent: probably threading macros
09:23	Anderkent	yeah but order of things, I guess as->
09:24	clgv	you only got sequence operations as far as I can see
09:24	Anderkent	hm, you're right, not sure why I was thinking the order switched
09:24	clgv	,(->> "123456789012" (partition 2) (map (partial apply str)) (interpose \-) (apply str))
09:24	clojurebot	"12-34-56-78-90-12"
09:25	clgv	(require '[clojure.string :as str])
09:25	clgv	,(require '[clojure.string :as str])
09:25	clojurebot	nil
09:25	clgv	,(->> "123456789012" (partition 2) (map (partial apply str)) (str/join \-))
09:25	clojurebot	"12-34-56-78-90-12"
09:25	muhuk	klzzvn: new is a special form. I guess that's why it needs to be `read` (and evaled).
09:25	Anderkent	clgv: cool, thanks
09:26	clgv	muhuk: klzzvn: yes it is a special form that needs a symbol that resolves to a class at its compile time
09:27	clgv	join should be in core maybe as clojure.core/str-join ;)
09:27	klzzvn	clgv: muhuk: thanks guys, it works now...
09:27	klzzvn	it's super ugly i must say :)
09:27	klzzvn	but it fixes my problem with JavaFX and importing some JavaFX classes with static initializers
09:28	jcromartie	I'm not seeing a clear consensus on either <namespace>_test.clj or test/<namespace>.clj
09:28	jcromartie	any opinions here?
09:28	jcromartie	pro/con?
09:28	clgv	klzzvn: yeah I heard that javafx has some design issues there
09:29	klzzvn	clgv: yup, I don't speak Java at all, so I can't say what they are doing and is it in bad taste... but it's not possible to just (import) some JFX classes without some tricks...
09:29	clgv	jcromartie: leiningen suggest a default in its standard "new" template
09:29	klzzvn	clgv: they do have Builder classes that can bypass some of the problem.. but it's still not very pretty...
09:29	jcromartie	I personally prefer the <ns>_test.clj approach but I see major projects have moved away from that
09:30	clgv	jcromartie: tests in "test/" folder but not part of the namespace and postfix "_test"
09:30	clgv	jcromartie: which and what do they use?
09:32	jcromartie	clgv: well yeah all tests go in the test/ folder, but it is just another source folder. I mean as far as actual namespaces go
09:32	jcromartie	https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/tree/master/ring-core/test/ring/middleware/session/test
09:33	jcromartie	so basically, foo.bar.baz is tested by foo.bar.test.baz
09:33	clgv	jcromartie: woah thats odd. I dont like that convention
09:33	jcromartie	I'm not crazy about it
09:33	jcromartie	we've got an even weirder setup
09:33	jcromartie	currently
09:33	clgv	better prefix namespaces with "test."
09:33	jcromartie	you mean suffix?
09:33	jcromartie	or test.foo.bar.baz
09:33	clgv	yes like that
09:34	clgv	thought it looks odd on the filesystem with "test/test/..."
09:34	jcromartie	so you vote for that, over the Leiningen suggested convention
09:35	clgv	well I use it in two projects like that since I didnt like the postfix variant
09:36	jcromartie	what we've got now is a mess :) https://gist.github.com/jcromartie/b36e07ad1ceb7de25e2a
09:37	jcromartie	a mix of all sorts and who knows what
09:37	Rosnec	is there a layout in swing/seesaw which would allow me to have a grid with fixed size items, but a variable number of rows/columns?
09:37	jcromartie	foo.test.unit.bar.bat, foo.functional.baz, foo.zort-test
09:37	Rosnec	so if I resize the window, it will change the number of columns to fit
09:38	jcromartie	gotta rein it in
09:47	clgv	uuuh
09:48	Anderkent	jcromartie: also foo.test-zort
09:49	Anderkent	oh wait you were talking about a specific project not generally
09:51	eraserhd	In core.logic, is there a way to make a relation by a method other than compositioin of other relations?
09:51	eraserhd	For example, I'd like to write 'symbolo', but I don't think there's a way to do it in terms of project and gensym.
09:57	jcromartie	hahah clgv I realize I copied the sed line
09:57	jcromartie	:P
09:59	clgv	:P
10:05	jcromartie	I'd love to be able to do a survey of Clojure source structure
10:05	jcromartie	time to go to the Github API!
10:07	jdkealy	anyone well acquainted with "friend" ? I have been testing an authenticated area, but when i refresh my changes, i get signed out. Anyone know how to stay signed in using friend ?
10:23	jcromartie	jdkealy: I would guess you are blowing away your session store
10:23	jdkealy	@jcromartie I am passing the :auto-reload? true option to ring in my project.clj
10:26	jcromartie	you can specify a session store for your Ring handler
10:27	jcromartie	for instance, I do it like this: (defonce session-store (ring.middleware.session.memory/memory-store)) (def handler (handler/site routes {:session {:store sessions-store}}))
10:27	jcromartie	like that… not exactly that
10:27	jcromartie	but when the namespace with my handler gets reloaded, it doesn't lose the session store
10:28	jcromartie	by default if you don't explicitly specify a session store, Ring will use a brand new one
10:28	jcromartie	so reloading the ns that constructs your handler will wipe out your session
10:29	fizruk	is there a contains? analogue to check if get-in will work?
10:30	jdkealy	nice. thanks! is there a contains? i am not sure what that means
10:31	fizruk	,(contains? {:x {:y 1}} :x)
10:31	clojurebot	true
10:31	jcromartie	why not just get-in?
10:31	jcromartie	I know it's not exactly equivalent
10:32	jcromartie	unless you're using vectors...
10:32	fizruk	jcromartie: and that’s why I want that
10:32	welder	(if-let [val (get-in m [k1 k2])]
10:32	jcromartie	then it wouldn't work at all
10:32	jcromartie	:P
10:32	jcromartie	got it
10:32	jcromartie	so k2 is an index in a vector?
10:33	jcromartie	wait that would still work
10:33	fizruk	,(get-in {:x {:y 1}} [:x :y])
10:33	clojurebot	1
10:33	jcromartie	but you care about the difference between existence in the coll and a nil value
10:33	fizruk	yes
10:33	jcromartie	Ok
10:34	fizruk	(if-let [val (get-in {:x {:y nil}} [:x :y])] true false)
10:34	fizruk	,(if-let [val (get-in {:x {:y nil}} [:x :y])] true false)
10:34	clojurebot	false
10:35	fizruk	I want that to be true ^
10:35	welder	,(contains? {:x nil} :x)
10:35	clojurebot	true
10:35	welder	:(
10:36	fizruk	ok, maybe there’s a solution on a different level
10:36	jcromartie	you just need to write a function
10:36	fizruk	what I want next is an update-in which updates only if there is a value
10:36	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
10:36	cbp	you mean a key?
10:37	fizruk	a value at given key, yes
10:37	cbp	nil is the absence of a value
10:37	fizruk	,(update-in {} [:x :y] #(or % 1))
10:37	clojurebot	{:x {:y 1}}
10:38	fizruk	,(update-in {:x {:y nil}} [:x :y] #(or % 1))
10:38	clojurebot	{:x {:y 1}}
10:38	jdkealy	thanks @jcromartie that works perfectly!
10:38	fizruk	I want first to return {} and second to work like that
10:39	cbp	That's honestly going against the language. You'll have to write your own versions and check explicitly for nil
10:40	cbp	or use contains?
10:40	fizruk	cbp: nil always made a perfect value for me
10:40	gfredericks	did leiningen support ~/.profiles.clj as an alternative to ~/.lein/profiles.clj?
10:41	fizruk	cbp: ok, I’ll change semantics to not use nil as value then
10:41	cbp	fizruk: sure but it's also the value returned when something is empty
10:42	fizruk	korma uses nil when you want to check if something in DB is nil or not
10:42	jcromartie	fizruk: https://www.refheap.com/83816
10:42	cbp	er when something is not there
10:42	jcromartie	this is not impossible
10:42	cbp	embrace the nil punning :-P
10:43	fizruk	so I have some search-params structure which is basically a map
10:43	fizruk	and it might contain nil when I want something to be absent
10:44	fizruk	ot it might not contain key at all when I don’t want that field to be a part of search request
10:44	cbp	You can just use jcromartie's version and update when it's true
10:44	fizruk	and I find it confusing that I have to define my own contains-in?
10:45	fizruk	i mean, is it that core has not much support of general functions like that? or is it me trying to do something “against the language”?
10:45	cbp	clojure disagrees and wants you to treat nil as being absent
10:47	fizruk	ok
10:47	jcromartie	cbp: then why does contains? exist?
10:48	jcromartie	,(contains? {:x nil} :x)
10:48	clojurebot	true
10:52	cbp	jcromartie: I'm not sure. To check if nil is inside a set?
10:52	jcromartie	I use it to check HTTP parameters
10:57	clgv	,(contains? #{1 2 nil 4} nil)
10:57	clojurebot	true
10:58	clgv	,(contains? {1 2 nil 4} nil)
10:58	clojurebot	true
11:02	eraserhd	I vaguely recall there was another pattern matching library that people used instead of core.match. What was it?
11:03	gfredericks	does anybody know of a leiningen plugin that sets the project version based on an env variable (when present)?
11:03	gfredericks	I'm about to write one otherwise
11:05	eraserhd	gfredericks: why?
11:06	gfredericks	useful for certain ways of using CI
11:09	eraserhd	gfredericks: ah
11:16	dmi3y	gst
11:17	dmi3y	please ignore that
11:18	ssideris_	eraserhd: matchure
11:18	dobladez	I really like Emacs clojure-test-mode's ability to run clojure.test (C-c ,). However, it looks like running a single test (C-c M-,) doesn't run the fixtures... Am I missing something?
11:22	jcromartie	I need to use clojure-test-mode more
11:26	devurandom	How do I turn the result of (map ... (range ...)) into a static non-lazy list?
11:27	bbloom	(doc mapv) ; devurandom
11:27	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f c1 c2] [f c1 c2 c3] [f c1 c2 c3 & ...]); Returns a vector consisting of the result of applying f to the set of first items of each coll, followed by applying f to the set of second items in each coll, until any one of the colls is exhausted. Any remaining items in other colls are ignored. Function f should accept number-of-colls arguments."
11:28	bbloom	see also: vec and doall
11:28	devurandom	I tried doall, but that did not seem to work.
11:28	devurandom	I.e. the type stayed the same.
11:28	bbloom	devurandom: doall won't change the type
11:29	bbloom	devurandom: it will only force the inherit memoization of the lazy seq
11:29	bbloom	internally, a "is realized?" flag will flip
11:29	gtrak	technomancy: success! 0.7.0 is going to be more of a real release https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/546
11:30	devurandom	So mapv is equivalent to (vec (map))?
11:31	gtrak	devurandom: but faster
11:31	bbloom	gtrak: faster?
11:31	gtrak	slightly
11:31	gtrak	yea, there's no laziness stack-frames :-)
11:32	devurandom	Yay, now it works! Thanks a lot!!
11:32	gtrak	ah, wait a minute. I'm wrong.
11:32	gtrak	it still uses map under the covers.
11:32	gtrak	except for the 2-arity.
11:32	bbloom	gtrak: i'm looking now, that's only for parallel maps
11:32	gtrak	there, ego phew
11:32	bbloom	gtrak: either way, impl detail
11:33	gtrak	one man's impl-detail is another man's impl.
11:37	eflynn	how do you get the documentation of a funciton
11:38	cbp	,(clojure.repl/doc juxt)
11:38	clojurebot	"([f] [f g] [f g h] [f g h & fs]); Takes a set of functions and returns a fn that is the juxtaposition of those fns. The returned fn takes a variable number of args, and returns a vector containing the result of applying each fn to the args (left-to-right). ((juxt a b c) x) => [(a x) (b x) (c x)]"
11:40	fizruk	,(some #{false} [false])
11:40	clojurebot	nil
11:40	fizruk	why, clojurebot?
11:41	cbp	yep you have to special case that
11:41	gfredericks	,(some #(= false %) [false])
11:41	clojurebot	true
11:42	technomancy	gtrak: nice!
11:42	fizruk	gfredericks: i though #{false} should be equivallent to #(= false %) there
11:42	fizruk	thought*
11:42	gfredericks	no, sets return the value when present
11:42	gfredericks	,(#{false} false)
11:42	clojurebot	false
11:43	malyn	,(some false? [false])
11:43	clojurebot	true
11:43	gfredericks	so you're hitting one of clojure's nil/false edge cases
11:43	gfredericks	this is one of the reasons the (some #{x} coll) idiom makes me grumpy
11:43	fizruk	oh, ok
11:43	fizruk	thanks!
11:43	gfredericks	np
11:44	arrdem	see you guys on the other side of finals...
11:47	gfredericks	arrdem: wait what there's finals? when? this must be one of those crazy nightmares...
11:51	technomancy	gfredericks: just finalés
12:05	coventry	bbloom: I enjoyed your eff talk.
12:05	bbloom	coventry: thanks!
12:05	bbloom	glad you liked it
12:10	gfredericks	I'm imagining this talk is similar to "WAT" and features bbloom making fun of some language and saying "eff..." after each point.
12:10	cbp	effing clojure!
12:10	bbloom	coventry: i didn't make fun of monads too much, did i? ;-)
12:13	farhaven	bbloom: is there a source for me to make a cultural backup of that talk?
12:13	bbloom	farhaven: http://www.mixcloud.com/paperswelove/
12:14	mikerod	gfredericks: the (some #{x} coll) idiom is just weird to explain to people new to the language
12:14	mikerod	I mean, a side note
12:14	coventry	Not enough. :-)
12:14	mikerod	as a side note*
12:16	mikerod	I guess it is cool though
12:16	mikerod	coventry: what is the "eff talk"
12:17	bbloom	mikerod: i'll tweet about it now so as to keep my self promotion to the professional self promotion platform
12:18	mikerod	bbloom: that sounds appropriate
12:18	bbloom	mikerod: done.
12:20	mikerod	bbloom: thanks, I'll be checking it out. so your self promotion has at least drawn in 1 more person to the video. win
12:20	bbloom	(inc self-promotion)
12:20	lazybot	⇒ 1
12:21	coventry	mikerod: http://www.mixcloud.com/paperswelove/bbloom_3_17_2014_programming_with_alegebraic_effectshandlers/
12:26	gfredericks	mikerod: yeah; it'd work fine of course if sets were predicates, which is most of my set-as-IFn usage
12:29	gfredericks	I followed through on my earlier threat: https://github.com/fredericksgary/lein-env-version
12:29	coventry	bbloom: It seems like there's some overlap between eff and extensible effects. Can the examples in the eff paper be translated directly to eclj?
12:30	CookedGr1phon	technomancy: I'm submitting a pull request to cider for C-u M-x cider-jack-in to take a profile argument, am I right in thinking that "with-profile default" is the same as not specifying a with-profile parameter?
12:30	bbloom	coventry: the extensible effects in haskell as per oleg are directly related to the research & researchers who built Eff, both of which have heavily influenced my desire for the functionality i'm working on for eclj... at this time, eclj's handlers are broken b/c i'm still working on what the design should look like in a lisp/clojure
12:31	bbloom	coventry: but a goal is for all those eff examples to work trivially in eclj
12:31	technomancy	CookedGr1phon: that's correct; should be the same
12:32	bbloom	coventry: but at this time, the goal of clojure compatability is at odds with some other (less publicized) goals of mine, so i'm not sure how hard i'm going to push on eclj itself
12:32	CookedGr1phon	technomancy: great, that means we can have the prompt default to "default" and no further checking/explanation is necessary. Thanks!
12:32	technomancy	np
12:33	gtrak	CookedGr1phon: fwiw, I agree with making the launch parameters more generic than a specific with-profile thing.
12:33	gtrak	technomancy mentioned a local-dir specific vars file that would be convenient per-project.
12:33	coventry	bbloom: It would be great if there was an eclj version of the state examples, because I am having trouble following them.
12:34	bbloom	coventry: why not try the eff interpreter?
12:34	bbloom	coventry: it's pretty easy to build/run
12:34	bbloom	only trick is that in ML-likes you need to write ;; after what you want tevaluated in the repl
12:34	bbloom	:-)
12:34	gtrak	CookedGr1phon: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Directory-Local-Variables.html
12:34	technomancy	gtrak: maybe you could prompt for the whole command but have it pre-populated with a lein with-profile invocation?
12:35	bbloom	coventry: i also did some experiments w/ using core.async's internals to do something eff-like here: https://github.com/brandonbloom/cleff
12:35	gtrak	technomancy: I don't see a problem for an alias for the specific profile functionality, I just want what's underneath to be general.
12:35	bbloom	coventry: but it's shallow like generators in python or C# or whatever
12:35	bbloom	coventry: ie lexical finite state machines instead of arbitrary dynamic extents
12:36	gtrak	technomancy: so we don't have interacting bits munging strings unpredictably.
12:36	gtrak	i guess that's what you do in elisp, though ;-)
12:36	technomancy	gtrak: it should just be a straight-up command though
12:36	bbloom	coventry: i've also experimented with "first class handlers" in clojure w/ just regular exceptions (not delimited continuations). goal was to to explore syntax. see here: https://github.com/brandonbloom/handlers
12:36	technomancy	the string should be opaque
12:37	CookedGr1phon	gtrak: technomancy: FYI, here's the pull request as it stands https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/544
12:38	CookedGr1phon	I agree that it's a bit naff and inflexible having the string hidden away and manipulating it like this
12:38	gfredericks	technomancy: any ideas on how to do an acceptance test of a plugin w/o installing the plugin to the local mvn repo?
12:38	gfredericks	(i.e., the test should run a task on a test project that uses the plugin)
12:38	CookedGr1phon	depends whether you want to enforce that whatever lein command you run will actually run a repl I suppose...
12:39	technomancy	gfredericks: you can use .lein-classpath in the test project to point to src/ of the plugin
12:39	technomancy	kind of a poor man's plugin checkout-deps
12:39	gtrak	CookedGr1phon: yea, I was thinking about that. I occasionally want a 'lein do clean, compile, repl' cycle.
12:39	gfredericks	technomancy: and it won't complain that the plugin isn't in ~/.m2?
12:39	gtrak	CookedGr1phon: and those might have different profiles applied at each point.
12:39	gtrak	depending on what I need, it's a complex project.
12:39	CookedGr1phon	then again, it would be good if I could for example have it run a lein droid on-device repl, which would be too much for the current setup
12:40	technomancy	gfredericks: it's like checkout deps, declare a released version of the plugin but use .lein-classpath to overlay the latest
12:40	gfredericks	oh I guess using a released version isn't terrible
12:40	gfredericks	technomancy: hokay cool enough thx
12:41	CookedGr1phon	feel free to chip in on the pull request if you think it would be better all round to just prompt with the default lein string and give the user the option to edit it arbitrarily
12:42	gtrak	CookedGr1phon: I think it's best to just let the user fully-customize the string, a prompt is fine, it just needs to be obvious that the last step ought to be whatever makes a repl.
12:42	CookedGr1phon	it would certainly be more flexible, and still solves my main issue which is linking the leiningen process to the emacs window so I don't get loose ends everywhere
12:42	gtrak	and if it doesn't do it already, we want the default to be sensible, and amenable to something like the local-dirs vars.
12:42	gtrak	I'd use that.
12:44	coventry	bbloom: Yeah, eclj would have been good because it's built on a more familiar foundation, but eff would be the next natural choice.
12:46	bbloom	coventry: unfortunately clojure's best available syntax(es) for effect handler matching aren't great...
12:47	bbloom	the try/catch syntax is awful, multimethods only do static value dispatch or, like protocols, only type hierarchy dispatch
12:47	bbloom	really want something closer to pattern matching, like in eff
12:50	gfredericks	oh snap clojars has a latest-version img for github READMEs
12:50	gfredericks	yaaaay
12:52	iwo	hey, does anyone know if it's possible provide a callback (or similar) that can be called on eviction when using core.cache or core.memoize?
12:53	justin_smith	iwo: implement the cache protocol, write a clearing function that does the thing, or allows a configurable callback that does the thing
12:54	justin_smith	iwo: this could be done by wrapping some other functions already used to implement the cache protocol
12:55	TimMc	I now have a working website using Enlive for HTML generation. Here's an example of using it non-trivially: https://github.com/timmc/pellucida/blob/master/src/org/timmc/pellucida/single.clj#L123
12:56	TimMc	You can see how the main transformation block is able to delegate to other fns to transform smaller portions of the page.
12:56	iwo	justin_smith: thanks! basically i'm caching something that needs to be explicitly 'closed' when it's evicted
12:58	TimMc	Now I finally have a thing to show people when I say Enlive is nice. -.-
13:00	coventry	bbloom: Oh, interesting. I thought the main difficulty was going to be that there are so many ways to cause side effects in clojure, independently of whatever framework you set up to track them.
13:01	bbloom	coventry: if you own the interpreter, that's the easy part! https://github.com/brandonbloom/eclj/blob/master/src/eclj/env.clj
13:01	bbloom	that file contains all the effects in clojure's semantics
13:01	grimmulfr	Is there a dommy way of changing certain style elements? I create an element and set a style, and I want to change one thing when clicking a button. Everything's done but I can't seem to find a way of altering the style (apart from overwriting it with changed values)
13:02	bbloom	coventry: sadly, clojure.core has lots of semantic effects that are subsumed by calls to RT and other jvm interop
13:02	grimmulfr	I can do it with jayq, but though I keep it all dommy for DOM alteration
13:03	coventry	bbloom: But I suppose the idea is to give more control over whichever effects you choose to express in the handler notation, not to track them all.
13:03	justin_smith	iwo: there may in fact be an implementation of the cache protocol in core.cached that allows that kind of specialization; I don't know of one though
13:03	bbloom	coventry: yeah, so having a general purpose "interop" effect is convenient as hell, but it means that the cat is out of the bag instantly
13:04	bbloom	coventry: it's similar to mutable by default: once you do that, people are going to go wild with it
13:21	AlwaysBCoding	does anyone know how to colorize the output from `lein test` ... so that failing tests are red etc...
13:23	technomancy	AlwaysBCoding: lein difftest does that
13:23	technomancy	plus some other stuff
13:25	cbp	Anyone get this error using cider on emacs? Happens whenever I open parens and type a dot like so: (.) It freezes my emacs for a while. https://www.refheap.com/83843
13:25	AlwaysBCoding	technomancy: thanks, that looks pretty good. any idea how to customize it?
13:25	technomancy	AlwaysBCoding: not really, sorry
13:28	blake__	OK, I'm trying to "get" a few things about these three lines of code: https://www.refheap.com/83840
13:28	cbp	Maybe this new version of cider fixes that...
13:29	blake__	There's a defrecord, which I get. Then there's a function that, it appears, creates an instance of that record.
13:29	justin_smith	blake__: any questions? for (defrecord Foo ...) clojure generates ->Foo and map->Foo
13:29	justin_smith	automatically
13:30	jcromartie	blake__: the ->RecordName function is called the "positional constructor" function
13:30	blake__	I did not know that. I only know -> as the threading macro, but that couldn't be the case here since it's part of the name.
13:31	jcromartie	and it takes the record fields in the order specified in the defrecord's field vector
13:31	justin_smith	blake__: -> is just a pair of symbols that can be part of any name
13:31	jcromartie	there is also the map->RecordName variety that takes a map of fields
13:31	justin_smith	,(let [->->-> 1] (inc ->->->))
13:31	jcromartie	those functions are generated by defrecord
13:31	clojurebot	2
13:31	blake__	justin_smith: Right, but since I didn't see "->AdditionalDependence" defined anywhere, I was confuseth.
13:32	blake__	So what would be the purpose of the function? A shorthand?
13:32	justin_smith	docs for 1.3, still apply http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/defrecord
13:33	justin_smith	blake__: it is defined as a convenience
13:34	justin_smith	funny, those docs use ->Foo but don't really describe it anywhere
13:34	blake__	I don't even see the "->Foo".
13:35	justin_smith	well it is ->Someone
13:35	blake__	I went to that page to test out the code which is how I figured out what it did. (Though it's not identical, since one produces the second parameter as a vector and the other as a list.)
13:35	blake__	justin_smith: Aha. There it is.
13:36	blake__	So "->whatever" for serial parameters and "map->whatever" for key/value init?
13:37	justin_smith	blake__: well not just key/value, but coercion from a map with appropriate keys
13:37	justin_smith	but yeah
13:37	blake__	Groovy, tx.
13:40	coventry	How can I convert a clojure list of instances of JavaClass to [LJavaclass; ?
13:41	bbloom	,(into-array Class [Integer String])
13:41	clojurebot	#<Class[] [Ljava.lang.Class;@60b493>
13:42	bbloom	coventry: ^^ that what you want?
13:46	jcromartie	any reason why I shouldn't assoc some of my model data with the Ring request on the way through the routes?
13:46	jcromartie	like, if it's a /projects/:key/* route, stick the indicated project under :route-project in the request
13:47	jcromartie	it could be a delay or something to avoid unnecessary lookups
13:47	justin_smith	jcromartie: seems like a cromulent middleware to me, as long as you have considered the security implications
13:47	jcromartie	yeah
13:48	jcromartie	blegh… it's hard to strike the right balance when drawing the line between dealing with the request and dealing with your business model directly
13:48	justin_smith	consider also a cache, since I assume multiple requests would want to lookup the same item
13:48	jcromartie	well the model is in memory in this case
13:48	jcromartie	so there's no real problem there
13:48	justin_smith	oh, ok
13:49	jcromartie	but where do you stop passing a Ring request and start dealing with business domain stuff
13:49	jcromartie	it's not clea
13:49	jcromartie	clear
13:54	justin_smith	jcromartie: perhaps separate the routing (where it is a request) from handling (where it is business logic manipulation) - each middleware should belong on one side or the other of that division
13:55	justin_smith	s/business logic manipulation/manipulation of datastructures in order to implement business logic/
13:56	coventry	bbloom: Yes, thanks.
14:43	HolyJak	Hello people! How do you solve the lack of static types in Clojure and the resulting inability to see what is the data that actually flows through a program at each step and errors such as expecting a map instead of vector, which are not discovered until [late in] runtime? I try now to use small functions with destructuring to document better the expected shape of data and pre- + post-conditions to fail fast if I make a mistake either in code
14:44	rasmusto	HolyJak: check out schema https://github.com/prismatic/schema
14:44	ToxicFrog	HolyJak: for small programs, I don't bother, I just test. For large programs, I use core.typed.
14:44	rasmusto	HolyJak: schema for runtime, core.typed for compile time
14:47	amalloy	just don't write bugs. easy
14:48	l1x	morning
14:49	l1x	i am wondering what is the right approach to have a transient variable that i keep adding stuff in a function and print out it's current state, println does not work on transient collections
14:49	amalloy	l1x: that's almost certainly not what transients are for
14:50	bbloom	l1x: just use an atom, swap!, and conj
14:50	bbloom	,(def log [])
14:50	amalloy	transients should be treated like persistent collections which may, for performance, choose to mutate themselves
14:50	clojurebot	#'sandbox/log
14:50	bbloom	,(swap! log conj 1)
14:50	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Atom>
14:50	bbloom	,(def log (atom [])) ; whoop0s
14:50	clojurebot	#'sandbox/log
14:50	bbloom	,(swap! log conj 2)
14:50	clojurebot	[2]
14:50	bbloom	,(swap! log conj 3)
14:50	clojurebot	[2 3]
14:50	bbloom	,(swap! log conj 4)
14:50	clojurebot	[2 3 4]
14:50	bbloom	log
14:50	bbloom	,log
14:50	clojurebot	#<Atom@e58b15: [2 3 4]>
14:50	l1x	ahhh!
14:51	l1x	this is what i am looking for
14:51	l1x	bbloom: thanks a million
14:51	justin_smith	if you define log outside the function, you can access it from your repl between function calls
14:51	l1x	yes, this is exactly what i need, you guys rock
14:52	dbasch	l1x: the more important question is, do you really need mutability?
14:52	justin_smith	l1x: a common pattern for me is to insert some data that a function is barfing over into an atom, then going in the repl and experimenting with said data and function
14:53	justin_smith	dbasch: at dev time? sure!
14:53	dbasch	justin_smith: yes, I mean for prod
14:53	justin_smith	dbasch: yeah I don't let atoms called "debug" into my commits, not to mention prod :)
14:53	dbasch	justin_smith: it’s not clear from l1x’s question what the actual problem is
14:54	amalloy	yeah, actually just half an hour ago i did the same thing: i was confused about what values x ever took on during the course of a doseq, so i (let [values (atom #{})] (doseq ... (swap! values conj x)) (prn @values))
14:54	l1x	dbasch: yes i do need that, but the atom approach solves that problem
14:54	l1x	i have an app that has to carry a minimal state
14:54	justin_smith	dbasch: I assumed he was wanting to get a better look at some intermediate values within a function for debugging purposes - though that may be wrong
14:54	amalloy	(spoiler alert: it turned out i was editing different code than i was running)
14:54	l1x	and it would be hard to solve without an atom or a transient vector, but as far as i can see the correct/idiomatic clojure way is using atom and swap!
14:55	dbasch	l1x: yeah, transient vectors are not for state, they are for building something faster
14:55	dbasch	transients in general
14:55	l1x	dbasch: yes i just realized
14:55	rasmusto	amalloy: that's the worst, I did that with the linux kernel for about 3 weeks :( early_printk never showed up
14:55	amalloy	3 weeks!!!
14:55	justin_smith	l1x: transients are for performance, and should be used to replace a series of conj or assoc calls, not for arbitrary mutation
14:56	rasmusto	amalloy: I was in school, so it was ok
14:56	l1x	thanks
14:56	justin_smith	l1x: or what dbasch said
14:56	rasmusto	amalloy: hell, it'd probably still be OK
15:02	mskoud	Lets say i want to write to a logfile different places in my application, what is the ideomatic way to do it? I'm not interested in a log library, but how to structure the code and where to place global vars...
15:03	gfredericks	mskoud: global vars for what?
15:03	amalloy	do you actually want to write to a log file from different places in your application, or are you hoping that answers to this question will lead to enlightenment in some other area?
15:04	justin_smith	mskoud: idiomatically, the only global var would be the function that logs
15:04	justin_smith	imho
15:04	mskoud	i'm not sure, but i guess i will need a file handle somewhere to the open file.
15:05	puredanger	one common pattern is to have an agent and to "send" it messages for it to write to the log
15:05	justin_smith	mskoud: yeah, the logging function should keep track of that though, and be able to reopen the file if it gets moved / compressed, etc.
15:05	puredanger	but if you want that, it's probably better to use a logging lib like timbre which has all that set up already
15:06	mskoud	yes, i'm aware of the libs, but i'm trying to get to terms with how to complete "normal" tasks in Clojure :-)
15:06	dbasch	msassak: the only good reason to not use a logging library would be if you hate the existing ones and your project is to write your own
15:07	technomancy	hating java logging is not an unreasonable position
15:07	puredanger	mskoud: I would normally do this by using a library so I could get back to writing my application :)
15:07	dbasch	sorry, that was for mskoud
15:07	puredanger	technomancy: that's actually a requirement
15:07	justin_smith	and there are indeed reasons to hate existing loggers - or at least want to improve them (and this has to do with the usage of globals funny enough)
15:07	dbasch	technomancy: agreed
15:07	puredanger	we can all agree to hate Java logging
15:07	technomancy	puredanger: haha
15:08	justin_smith	lowfi: run your app inside nohup, redirecting to a named output, and use println :P
15:08	mskoud	i agree to use a library, bad example, i just was not completely sure how to acomplish a task like writing to a open file different place in an app.
15:09	justin_smith	the above suggestion of an agent is a good one
15:09	cbp	Use an agent to queue
15:09	bbloom	puredanger: what's not to love about totally ungreppable gigabytes of xml?
15:09	justin_smith	or a core.async go block that logs things that come into a channel
15:09	bbloom	puredanger: especially when it's malformed
15:09	puredanger	bbloom: totally ungreppable gigabytes of malformed xml
15:10	storme	,(take 60 (range 0 1000 3))
15:10	clojurebot	(0 3 6 9 12 ...)
15:10	cbp	Are there any binary logging libraries around?
15:11	cbp	maybe even with protobufs
15:11	technomancy	cbp: I wish I could laugh, but check out systeemd
15:11	puredanger	justin_smith: if your question is about how to deal with managing an open resource, then I would recommend passing it around as part of the state of your application
15:11	technomancy	*systemd
15:12	technomancy	binary logging is a real thing that otherwise-sane people are promoting
15:12	puredanger	cbp: log libs like log4j have custom appenders, I presume some may exist that write binary but you could write your own
15:12	puredanger	log4j has an email appender, so you could email it to yourself
15:13	puredanger	you know, if you're insane
15:13	bbloom	technomancy: i mean, utf8 is binary data right? binary data is only a bad idea b/c we haven't given it a predictable universal schema :-P
15:13	bbloom	technomancy: solution: java serialization.
15:13	puredanger	lol
15:14	llasram	Thanks, bbloom
15:14	nullptr	bbloom: on that topic, database tables are pretty much binary logs too :)
15:14	cbp	:-P
15:14	puredanger	Brian Goetz once told me that 20% of his time at Oracle was spent regretting Java serialization
15:15	bbloom	puredanger: 20% of my time programming was spent regretting other people's decisions regarding serialization
15:16	bbloom	but seriously, i can't fault anyone who shipped something and later apologizes
15:16	bbloom	shipping is a feature & apologizing makes it almost OK
15:17	nullptr	all code is bad, for most bad code there's a good explanation...
15:21	technomancy	puredanger: huh, I didn't realize Oracle had a 20% policy like google
15:21	puredanger	ha!
15:21	puredanger	1 day per week can only be spent on regret
15:22	bbloom	like they say, it's 120% time. the extra 20% is for self-loathing
15:26	eraserhd	"Blistering barnacles! Something's not shipshape: Invalid PGP key." ?
15:26	eraserhd	What kind of requirements are there on the PGP key?
15:27	eraserhd	(for clojars)
15:33	storme	,(,(some even? '(1 2 3 4))
15:33	storme	)
15:33	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
15:33	storme	.(some even? '(1 2 3 4))
15:34	storme	,(some even? '(1 2 3 4))
15:34	clojurebot	true
15:44	dbasch	eraserhd: I use my ssh key
15:46	grimmulfr	Another silly question from me: Any way of getting crossdomain json with cljs-ajax?
15:46	grimmulfr	I haven;t dealt with this much as I always make requests on the same server, but I want to try out some public json sources and nothing works for me, I keep getting Access-Control-Allow-Origin'
15:48	Frozenlo`	grimmulfr: Are you the one controlling the server of the json sources?
15:48	nullptr	x-domain json as in ... jsonp?
15:49	grimmulfr	Well, no, that's the problem
15:49	grimmulfr	Hmm, I just started using cljs-ajax
15:49	grimmulfr	Can I use it for jsonp requests?
15:49	grimmulfr	I kinda suck at this, never had to deal with this sort of problems :(
15:49	HolyJak	rasmusto, ToxicFrog: Thanks. I know of core.typed and schema but do not thing everybody uses them - yet I encounter these problems always. I do write tests - perhaps just not good enough.
15:51	Frozenlock	grimmulfr: It does suck. I bumped my head multiple times on the same-origin policy thingy. It's on the public Internet, but you can't grab it....
15:52	nullptr	grimmulfr: that lib looks to be a different case -- basically abstracting goog.net.XhrIo*
15:52	nullptr	i would suggest using (or wrapping) goog.net.Jsonp
15:52	grimmulfr	hm, jq/ajax works wonderfully it seems
15:52	grimmulfr	I managed to get a response
15:52	grimmulfr	Frozenlock: I know, right?
15:53	grimmulfr	We always host out code on the same server so this is rarely a problem
15:53	nullptr	grimmulfr: that seems curious -- x-domain protection is not lib specific :)
15:53	grimmulfr	And we do most of the access from within flash, and have crossdomail all nicely setup
15:53	grimmulfr	well, nullptr, I just did (let [jsonstring (jq/ajax "http://api.automeme.net/text.json")] and then printed that out
15:53	Frozenlock	I'm with nullptr here, how could a different lib help you?
15:53	grimmulfr	and it printed the entire object, which does include the response
15:54	grimmulfr	one works, the other doesn't. Pretty sure it's my error of course
15:54	grimmulfr	I could pastie what I was trying, maybe I'm missing something
15:55	grimmulfr	what was the paste site again? (I'm used to pastie)
15:55	Frozenlock	refheap
15:55	Frozenlock	Shame on you for not setting emacs to paste automatically on refheap!
15:55	Frozenlock	:-p
15:55	grimmulfr	I should do that
15:57	grimmulfr	[ajax.core :as ajax], and then https://www.refheap.com/83861
15:58	Frozenlock	grimmulfr: your doing a POST?
15:58	Frozenlock	*you're
15:59	grimmulfr	I just used some example
15:59	grimmulfr	Now that I think about it, I shouldn't
15:59	lucsw	grimmulfr: the reponse have Access-Control-Allow-Origin:*
16:00	lucsw	grimmulfr: so it seems that browser allows to execute cross domain req.
16:01	grimmulfr	I should kill myself right about now
16:01	grimmulfr	Get works, obviously. It;s always that one little thing, ain't it
16:01	lucsw	https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Access_control_CORS
16:01	TravisD	Is there any support in clojure for starting new threads without resorting to Java? Also, can someone explain why this does not print hi 10 times? (repeatedly 10 #(.start (new Thread (fn [] (println "hi")))))
16:02	Frozenlock	grimmulfr: 'that one little thing' is what prevents me from achieving great things.
16:02	Frozenlock	It's always there, lurking in the shadows
16:03	lucsw	TravisD: it does print hi in my repl..
16:03	TravisD	hm
16:03	jcromartie	TravisD: future
16:03	jcromartie	also "repeatedly" is lazy
16:03	TravisD	Oh, and it does for me too.
16:04	lucsw	:)
16:04	TravisD	some other code of mine that is suspiciously similar does not :(
16:04	TravisD	jcromartie: I'll check out future
16:05	jcromartie	TravisD: since (repeatedly n f) creates a lazy seq, it won't be realized until it's consumed
16:05	jcromartie	so for example
16:05	jcromartie	,(def x (repeatedly 100000 #(println "spam")))
16:05	clojurebot	#'sandbox/x
16:05	jcromartie	nothing :)
16:05	TravisD	Ahh
16:05	TravisD	that makes sense
16:05	grimmulfr	Damn, only that jsn works, any other, still same error, even with get
16:06	jcromartie	but if I said, instead:
16:06	jcromartie	,(take 10 (repeatedly 100000 #(println "hello")))
16:06	clojurebot	(hello\nhello\nnil hello\nnil hello\nnil hello\nnil hello\nnil hello\n...)
16:06	jcromartie	it is a real mess though… because we're mixing output with a seq :(
16:06	TravisD	jcromartie: Could also use dorun, I guess
16:07	jcromartie	don't print from lazy seqs except for logging/tracing
16:07	jcromartie	yeas
16:07	jcromartie	if you just want to do something n times, use dotimes
16:07	jcromartie	,(dotimes [_ 10] (println "hi"))
16:07	clojurebot	hi\nhi\nhi\nhi\nhi\nhi\nhi\nhi\nhi\nhi\n
16:07	TravisD	I am writing some code that lets different threads get their own random number generators. I just wanted to make sure they were getting different seeds)
16:10	TravisD	fantastic, it appears to work :) And future is much nicer than the (.start (new Thread fn)) business
16:11	grimmulfr	So if the json is accesible within my browser, but not from this code, it's the code, right?
16:11	jcromartie	fns are also runnable
16:11	jcromartie	well you knew that
16:12	puredanger	if you're using JDK 8, ForkJoinPool has a commonPool now too that you can submit tasks to
16:12	nullptr	grimmulfr: no, depends on the x-domain policy
16:12	nullptr	see link above from lucsw
16:12	puredanger	TravisD: that ForkJoinPool comment was for yoiu
16:13	TravisD	puredanger: Ah, cool. Don't think I'm using JDK 8 :(
16:13	grimmulfr	Yeah, none of the other urls work. Just that one (same for jq/ajax)
16:13	grimmulfr	I need to find another way
16:14	nullptr	$ lynx -mime_header http://api.automeme.net/text.json \| grep Origin
16:14	nullptr	Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *
16:14	grimmulfr	Yeah, that one works with my code too.
16:15	grimmulfr	Nothe of other that I try though, they only work in the browser
16:15	grimmulfr	http://xkcd.com/info.0.json
16:15	grimmulfr	This is the one I;m after
16:16	nullptr	it lacks the header, so you're stuck unless there's a jsonp version
16:16	nullptr	otherwise you'll have to proxy
16:16	grimmulfr	Meh, too much hastle for just testing out json stuff
16:16	grimmulfr	So it wasn't the code
16:28	amalloy	TravisD: you could also use https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/flatland/useful/utils.clj#L201, if you just want a different Random for each thread
16:28	Glenjamin	hi guys, could i ask an opinion: when using an arrow, do you quote forms that have no arguments? eg (->> table (rseq) (vals) (apply concat))
16:28	amalloy	(def random (thread-local (Random.))), (let [my-thread-random @random] ...)
16:29	amalloy	Glenjamin: i always do, but many people don't
16:29	dbasch	Glenjamin: I don’t
16:29	llasram	Glenjamin: I do if any of the threaded forms take arguments, and don't if none do
16:29	bbloom	i don't either
16:29	TravisD	amalloy: I'm doing something like this: https://www.refheap.com/9db1992783a03d6afa2033d1c
16:29	Glenjamin	i've got them lined up vertically, the un-paren-ed ones look a bit rubbish
16:29	Glenjamin	but (:keyword) also looks silly
16:31	amalloy	Glenjamin: you're probably using ->> too aggressively anyway: i think (apply concat (vals (rseq table))) is substantially more readable, or perhaps (->> (vals (rseq table)) (apply concat))
16:32	amalloy	or, if you want to be a bit sneaky, (mapcat val (rseq table))
16:32	Glenjamin	amalloy: i shortened it a bit, the full one is https://www.refheap.com/83863
16:32	Glenjamin	hah, i started with (vals) (mapcat identity) before i found (apply concat), (mapcat val) is quite nice
16:35	amalloy	the length isn't really important - i encourage using ->> not to reduce nesting, but to increase readability by emphasizing what's most important. so i'd probably write (take 15 (for [[k vs] (rseq table), v vs] (lookup-user model v)]))
16:35	amalloy	er, modulo that dangling ]
16:36	TravisD	amalloy: Does what I posted look reasonable?
16:36	amalloy	or if you hate using 'for, maybe (take 15 (->> (rseq (mapcat val table)) (map (partial lookup-user model))))
16:37	Glenjamin	interesting, i like that way of thinking about it
16:37	amalloy	and of course i got the nesting wrong in that one. (take 15 (->> (mapcat val (rseq table)) (map (partial lookup-user model))))
16:38	amalloy	TravisD: i dunno, seems fine but i lack the context to make much of a judgment
16:39	TravisD	Ah, I was just wondering if the code you posted would be substantially cleaner
16:39	TravisD	amalloy: I just want differently seeded random number generators for each thread so that I can parallelize some random experiments without worrying about locking the rng or anything
16:41	amalloy	Glenjamin: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12715577/when-should-i-use-the-clojure-arrow-macro/12716708#12716708 is another thing i wrote on that topic
16:41	amalloy	TravisD: if you don't care about reifying the seed or the rng as values you can manipulate directly (you just care that they exist and are different per thread), i think a thread-local is simpler
16:42	TravisD	amalloy: the only thing I want to make sure is that I can control what seeds get used by the different threads
16:42	TravisD	so if I spawn N threads, those N threads will always use the same N seeds, possibly reordered
16:46	amalloy	mine would have some race conditions, like if f finished very quickly, the same thread might be reused from the future pool, and then it would continue using the same rng rather than requesting a new one
16:46	amalloy	if you want each call to f to have a different rng, vs each thread to have a different rng, you want a different solution
16:47	TravisD	hmm, I'm not sure which of those two options I want. I guess it depends on how I set up the experiments. if f does one complete run of everything, then I probably want each call to f to use a specific rng
16:47	amalloy	since there's not necessarily a guarantee that there's a one-to-one correspondence there, even though it looks like it
16:47	TravisD	the main thing I want is to maintain repeatability
16:48	TravisD	in a single thread I can just initialize the RNG with some seed and I'll always get the same results. I was thinking I would have the same thing if I guarantee that each of N threads gets some predicable seed
16:48	TravisD	and then I can split my experiment's trials among those threads
16:51	TravisD	I'll go with this for now, and if I need to change it later I will :)
16:52	amalloy	if each task T[i] uses the rng in some way, then to maintain repeatability you have to also distribute them to the worker queues (which can have a thread each, or not) in the same way every time
16:53	amalloy	since giving worker-1 T[0] and then T[1], and worker-2 T[2], will get different results than giving worker-1 T[0] and T[2], with worker-2 getting T[1]
16:55	TravisD	amalloy: Yeah, I was thinking that. So I was planning to control the task scheduling myself
16:55	TravisD	ah, I see. But the seeds might not pan out equally all the time
16:56	TravisD	I'll need to think about it some more
16:58	TravisD	it seems surprisingly complicated
17:38	kwertii	Is there a way to parameterize Midje facts? For example, if I have two different implementations of a protocol, they should both pass the same tests with regards to the protocol itself. Can I somehow pass each implementation in as a parameter to a fact?
17:51	turbopape	hi Guys, Is core.async considered stable enough so I can use it in production ?
17:51	cbp	yes
17:52	turbopape	Ok thanks cbp. Large traffic ok ?
17:53	bbloom	turbopape: if you have to ask, you probably don't have large traffic
17:53	cbp	I wouldn't be able to answer anyway. I only use it on cljs
17:54	turbopape	no bbloom, but I just wanted to have an Idea about the maturity of the lib.
17:55	bbloom	turbopape: it's quite stable
17:55	amalloy	bbloom: related: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17142960/lamina-vs-storm
17:55	turbopape	ok, thanks bblom !
17:56	amalloy	specifically the "30GB/day is Big Data" segment
17:56	bbloom	amalloy: i saw a guy give a talk about "big data"
17:56	bbloom	he showed the worst chart i've ever seen
17:56	bbloom	it was a bar chart w/ two bars, one really tall and one not as tall
17:56	bbloom	the Y axis was not labeled
17:56	bbloom	the X axis was labeled "data sets"
17:57	bbloom	i asked him what the Y axis was, he said that he wasn't sure how big the "small" dataset was, but the "large" data set was "huuuge"
17:57	bbloom	i said "how huge?"
17:57	bbloom	answer: "4 gigabytes"
17:57	amalloy	this was in like the 1980s, i guess?
17:57	Frozenlock	Wasn't there something like that about mongodb? Like, 'it's for bigdata', where bigdata is 100gb
17:58	jcromartie	that's awesome
17:58	bbloom	they had a 6 machine cluster to deal w/ their 4 gigabytes. when i pointed out that it fits in memory on my laptop, he got mad at me....
17:58	jcromartie	:)
17:58	bbloom	this was about a year ago
17:58	bbloom	lol
17:58	jcromartie	but what if you had five GB
17:58	jcromartie	how about now smart guy?
17:58	Berend__	lol
17:58	Frozenlock	gasp!
18:01	dbasch	bbloom: https://twitter.com/dbasch/status/269868078152691714 :)
18:03	bbloom	dbasch: true story.
18:07	akurilin	Quick question: how do I make sure none of my test source is ever run when either spinning up a dev ring app or using an uberjar? I'm suspecting I'm referencing a test namespace somewhere and it's using a fixture that cleans-up the db
18:07	akurilin	:(
18:07	akurilin	Don't want to commit this to production, this would be bad.
18:08	technomancy	akurilin: use `lein with-profile production repl` or whatever
18:08	technomancy	akurilin: also use profile isolation if you do AOT; see the last question in the lein faq
18:10	akurilin	technomancy: what determines whether test/ folder is taken in consideration?
18:10	technomancy	akurilin: that's added by the :base profile
18:10	technomancy	the production profile doesn't include it
18:10	technomancy	also the uberjar task strips out the base profile
18:10	technomancy	but you can leak from AOT if you don't use profile isolation
18:11	akurilin	technomancy: is it possible to find out what the characteristics are of each of the profiles that lein comes with? Looking through docs.
18:12	technomancy	sure; show-profiles does that
18:14	akurilin	technomancy: oh cool
18:14	akurilin	hm I might have an old lein, mine doesn't have production in it
18:15	technomancy	akurilin: production is just shorthand for the empty profile
18:16	l1x	dbasch: :D
18:16	l1x	that tweet
18:18	akurilin	technomancy: cool, thakn you
18:18	justin_smith	akurilin: side effects at the top level are bad, even in a test ns
18:19	justin_smith	akurilin: or do you mean someone is calling test/run-tests?
18:20	technomancy	eh, lots of good reasons to make sure tests don't get included
18:20	technomancy	you can have defmethods that screw everything up
18:20	technomancy	or shadow a src/ namespace or config file with something that only makes sense during tests
18:21	justin_smith	yeah, just addressing the specific symptom which I would think would not be an issue unless the test code actually got explicitly run
18:41	akurilin	justin_smith: yeah I actually realized I recently started running tests with envdir and the env vars folder kept pointing the tests at the dev db
18:41	akurilin	so it was nuking that one instead of the test db
18:41	akurilin	but that's a good point, the fixtures shouldn't go off by themselves without someone calling run tests
18:42	akurilin	btw the other day I discovered that rails tests are all run in one transaction, so they rollback the transaction at the end of eacdh integration test
18:42	akurilin	much better than truncating the whole thing like I do :D
18:43	akurilin	except I have no idea how to force test sql, korma conn pool and clojure.jdbc to all share the same connection
18:43	justin_smith	akurilin: look at how c3p0 is used
18:44	justin_smith	you can specify a "connection provider" that can specify a shared connection instance
18:45	akurilin	hm interesting, I'll have to investigate
18:54	mercwithamouth	can someone tell me what's going on with this 'assoc!' error message? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8dd29ad26facdb30d55a
18:55	justin_smith	two namespaces you refer both define assoc!
18:55	amalloy	mercwithamouth: just desserts for referring to :all
18:55	justin_smith	remember that clojure.core is implicitly referred
18:55	amalloy	clutch probably defines assoc!
18:56	justin_smith	mercwithamouth: instead of trying to guess which definition you want to use, it is complaining that you are trying to refer to it from two different places at once
18:57	amalloy	well, justin_smith, it does guess - this is a warning message, not an error
18:57	justin_smith	oh, I misread the exception thing
18:57	amalloy	hm, maybe i'm wrong. that's how it used to behave, but that sure does look like a stacktrace
18:58	justin_smith	well, regardless, it definitely did something other than guess, even if it guessed too (pedantry rescued)
18:58	cbp	Illegal state exceptions usually occur in repl sessions i think
18:59	mercwithamouth	amalloy: hmmm so simply get rid of the :refer all
18:59	mercwithamouth	when is that actually necessary....ahh i see. clutch has it's own 'assoc!' function thats conflicting?
18:59	cbp	when you try to replace a referred var from one namespace with another
18:59	justin_smith	mercwithamouth: require with an :as argument is much cleaner, and avoids these issues (among others)
19:00	mercwithamouth	justin_smith: gotcha, that WOULD be cleaner
19:00	justin_smith	then, when you want to edit your code, or derive something from it, it is clear where the functions you use were coming from
19:04	dbasch	mercwithamouth: or if you want to refer, refer to only what you need
19:04	dbasch	otherwise refer all is a longer way of saying use :)
19:05	mercwithamouth	dbasch: yeah, i'm sure as i become more familiar with the libraries i'm using i'll trim things down
19:05	cbp	If a new jar with the same version number got uploaded, I have to delete it first from my .m2 right?
19:05	mercwithamouth	lol, gotcha
19:05	dbasch	refer is something to use judiciously anyway
19:05	dbasch	when in doubt, require as
19:07	amalloy	cbp: that's step 1, yeah. step 0 is murdering the person who overwrote a release version
19:07	cbp	amalloy: it's a SNAPSHOT so I guess it's ok
19:07	amalloy	cbp: in that case you don't have to delete anything
19:08	amalloy	snapshots are supposed to get updated, and they do
19:08	cbp	Oh
19:08	technomancy	lein -U deps to force it
19:08	technomancy	otherwise it's there for 24h
19:08	cbp	thanks
19:09	amalloy	lein -U do clean, clean, clean, clean, deps # just in case
19:09	technomancy	>_<
19:10	justin_smith	lein do out, out, damn spot
19:10	cbp	i copy pasted that
19:10	hyPiRion	amalloy: You should use lein twice for that. Too bad it was reverted
19:11	amalloy	lein repeat, i think it was
19:11	hyPiRion	oh, maybe. At least it was repetition
19:11	justin_smith	lein reich clean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU23LqQ6LY4
19:12	amalloy	hyPiRion: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/pull/688
19:12	hyPiRion	amalloy: ah, there we go
19:13	amalloy	ah, i crack me up. "For when `lein clean && lein deps` just isn't enough. USAGE: `lein repeat 5 do deps, clean, compile, uberjar`"
19:13	cbp	hah
19:15	cbp	does lein -U deps update plugins too?
19:15	technomancy	cbp: I think so
19:16	TravisD	Can anyone explain to me why (do (def ^:dynamic x 0) (def ^:dynamic xp1 1) (binding [x 10, xp1 (inc x)] xp1)) returns 1 instead of 11?
19:17	cbp	(doc binding)
19:17	clojurebot	"([bindings & body]); binding => var-symbol init-expr Creates new bindings for the (already-existing) vars, with the supplied initial values, executes the exprs in an implicit do, then re-establishes the bindings that existed before. The new bindings are made in parallel (unlike let); all init-exprs are evaluated before the vars are bound to their new values."
19:17	justin_smith	TravisD: maybe binding has parallel rather than serial semantics?
19:17	cbp	keyword parallel
19:18	TravisD	ah, cool
19:18	justin_smith	oh yeah, there we go
19:18	TravisD	I guess I should have checked
19:18	TravisD	Is there a reason for it to be like that?
19:19	justin_smith	you could use nested binding forms if you wanted a specific order I guess
19:20	justin_smith	I don't think large binding forms are expected the way large let forms are
19:21	TravisD	yeah, I was just curious because I found it surprising that it behaves that way. Seems like it should only be different from let if there is a reason
19:22	Bronsa	TravisD: I guess it's more efficient to push all the thread bindings at once
19:22	TravisD	ah
19:24	justin_smith	my hunch is that sequential let is a concession to imperative programming, and you don't need to make that kind of concession in a form like binding
19:25	TravisD	I feel like a sequence of definitions isn't really imperative
19:26	justin_smith	TravisD: you can't have chaining of state without strict sequence
19:26	justin_smith	and let is often used in idiomatic clojure code to chain state
19:27	TravisD	justin_smith: I mean I don't see how it's avoidable. Some definitions depend on other definitions. The sequence was already there
19:27	dbasch	justin_smith: for that matter, s-expressions shouldn’t be evaluated sequentially either. It’s not really about state, it’s more about execution of code
19:28	justin_smith	dbasch: but the ordering is important because of state (even if the state is not declared explicitly in the code)
19:28	justin_smith	I'm not saying "don't do sequential imperative logic", I am just saying it is there
19:28	dbasch	justin_smith: same as when you define functions mathematically, based on previously defined functions
19:28	dbasch	justin_smith: it’s not really state, it’s just dependent definitions
19:29	dbasch	justin_smith: in that you cannot go back and change a definition in a theorem, for example
19:29	justin_smith	dbasch: but you can sequentially alter bindings in a let
19:29	justin_smith	s/alter/shadow
19:30	dbasch	the point being that a program is not a disconnected sequence of expressions that assumes any execution order is possible
19:30	dbasch	binding is the exception here
19:32	justin_smith	,{:a (println :a) :b (println :b) :c (println :c) :d (println :d) :e (println :e) :f (println :f) :g (println :g) :h (println :h) :i (println :i)}
19:32	clojurebot	:e\n:g\n:c\n:h\n:b\n:d\n:f\n:i\n:a\n{:e nil, :g nil, :c nil, :h nil, :b nil, ...}
19:33	bbloom	the evaluation semantics for maps & sets are particularly interesting b/c of the phase separation of the reader
19:33	justin_smith	I think that was a non-sequitor
19:34	justin_smith	or maybe not (hit enter too soon)
19:36	l1x	what is the opposite operation to conj! ?
19:36	justin_smith	,(doc dissoc!)
19:36	clojurebot	"([map key] [map key & ks]); Returns a transient map that doesn't contain a mapping for key(s)."
19:36	bbloom	l1x: for what data structure?
19:36	l1x	vector
19:36	justin_smith	or maybe ...
19:36	justin_smith	(doc pop!)
19:36	clojurebot	"([coll]); Removes the last item from a transient vector. If the collection is empty, throws an exception. Returns coll"
19:37	bbloom	l1x: justin_smith is right, it's pop! ... however ...
19:37	bbloom	l1x: don't start with transients!
19:37	l1x	:)
19:37	l1x	this is not for trasients
19:37	justin_smith	then why would you use conj!
19:38	bbloom	don't start with any side effecting thing if you can help it
19:38	bbloom	if you have a ! operation, you should also have a no-! operation that you're optimizing
19:38	justin_smith	I like how emphatic I sound when talking about functions on transients
19:38	l1x	i mean yes, no !
19:38	justin_smith	pop
19:38	justin_smith	,((juxt pop identity) (conj [0] 1))
19:38	clojurebot	[[0] [0 1]]
19:39	l1x	well i guess i need to ask a different question
19:39	justin_smith	,((juxt pop identity peek) (conj [0] 1))
19:39	clojurebot	[[0] [0 1] 1]
19:39	l1x	so i am trying to implement a simple function that counts how many times it has seen a certain string
19:39	justin_smith	statefully I assume?
19:40	l1x	yes, state has to be carried
19:40	bbloom	Bronsa: ignoring perf, there's good semantic reason bindings occur in parallel
19:40	l1x	so first i though i just use a simple [] but I guess it is not the best option
19:41	justin_smith	l1x: well, if you really want a stateful thing, I guess have an atom mapping string to count
19:41	l1x	second thought is [{:string count} {:another_string count}]
19:41	l1x	there are multiple strings
19:41	l1x	yes atom is for sure
19:41	bbloom	(doc swap!)
19:41	clojurebot	"([atom f] [atom f x] [atom f x y] [atom f x y & ...]); Atomically swaps the value of atom to be: (apply f current-value-of-atom args). Note that f may be called multiple times, and thus should be free of side effects. Returns the value that was swapped in."
19:42	l1x	that part you already pointed out earlier
19:42	l1x	i am more interested in the optimal data structure
19:42	l1x	i guess i am going to experiment with [{} {} ]
19:42	bbloom	what's wrong with a map?
19:42	bbloom	,(update-in {} ["some string"] (fnil inc 0))
19:43	clojurebot	{"some string" 1}
19:43	bbloom	,(update-in {"some string" 5} ["some string"] (fnil inc 0))
19:43	clojurebot	{"some string" 6}
19:43	bbloom	,(def a (atom {}))
19:43	clojurebot	#'sandbox/a
19:43	justin_smith	,(let [state (atom {}) counter (fn [s] (swap! state update-in [s] (fnil inc 0)))] (mapv counter ["hi" "hi" "bye"]) @state)
19:43	clojurebot	{"bye" 1, "hi" 2}
19:43	bbloom	,(swap! a update-in ["str 1"] (fnil inc 0))
19:43	clojurebot	{"str 1" 1}
19:43	bbloom	,(swap! a update-in ["str 1"] (fnil inc 0))
19:43	clojurebot	{"str 1" 2}
19:43	bbloom	,(swap! a update-in ["str 1"] (fnil inc 0))
19:43	clojurebot	{"str 1" 3}
19:43	bbloom	,(swap! a update-in ["str 2"] (fnil inc 0))
19:43	clojurebot	{"str 2" 1, "str 1" 3}
19:46	l1x	bbloom: thanks this is even better
19:49	mercwithamouth	hmm not really a clojure question necessarily...but lets say i ask for a username and a password to entered in twice...how would i go about sending that request via curl?
19:50	Frozenlock	mercwithamouth: what do you mean entered twice? In the same form?
19:50	mercwithamouth	i'm coming from a 'newb' rails background so now i'm trying to get a good grasp on dealing with http and routing in general
19:51	mercwithamouth	Frozenlock: well a confirmation 're-enter your password'
19:51	justin_smith	mercwithamouth: curl -d user=whatever -d pass=secret -d pass=secret
19:51	justin_smith	though realistically you would have two fields with different names, and you provide those field names via curl
19:51	mercwithamouth	justin_smith: ahh, thatnks!
19:51	mercwithamouth	yeah well pass and pass1
19:51	l1x	bbloom: update-in is really useful i did not know about it
19:52	mercwithamouth	which well...i think i'll change that to salted_pass right now
19:52	justin_smith	though post does allow the same key to be supplied more than once iirc
19:52	bbloom	l1x: update-in is one of the best things ever.
19:52	l1x	yeah it seems so :)
19:52	justin_smith	update-in, get-in, assoc-in
19:52	l1x	o hai nested data structures
19:52	bbloom	l1x: chains real nice too
19:52	l1x	get-in i am using everywhere, it is just crazy useful to get to a certain nested level in a structure
19:53	justin_smith	,(assoc-in {:a [1 2 3]} [:a 1] 1.5)
19:53	clojurebot	{:a [1 1.5 3]}
19:53	l1x	nice
19:54	l1x	,(def a (atom {}))
19:54	clojurebot	#'sandbox/a
19:54	l1x	,(swap! a update-in ["str 1"] (fnil inc 0))
19:54	clojurebot	{"str 1" 1}
19:54	l1x	,(swap! a update-in ["str 1"] (fnil inc 0))
19:54	clojurebot	{"str 1" 2}
19:54	l1x	,(swap! a update-in ["str 1"] (fnil dec 0))
19:54	clojurebot	{"str 1" 1}
20:03	mercwithamouth	not to be too annoying or spoon fed but why do i get not response from localhost:8080/register as my code is? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/2bbbeb0d6e5c14faa404
20:04	justin_smith	an empty response?
20:04	justin_smith	is the request you are sending POST?
20:04	nullptr	mercwithamouth: your get is empty (GET "/register" [])
20:05	mercwithamouth	ahh hmm could i do (Get "/register" [(str "hello")]) just to test it?
20:05	mercwithamouth	GET*
20:05	l1x	,(swap! a update-in ["str 1"] (fnil dec 0))
20:05	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
20:05	l1x	hoops
20:05	justin_smith	seems that would do it, though str is redundant there
20:05	l1x	:)
20:06	justin_smith	(GET "/register" "hello") - ring will handle that just fine
20:06	mercwithamouth	yeah...
20:06	justin_smith	(you also don't need the array)
20:06	justin_smith	*vector
20:07	mercwithamouth	unsupported binding "hello"
20:07	nullptr	justin_smith: *compojure :)
20:07	nullptr	mercwithamouth: put [] in front
20:07	justin_smith	oh, fine, compojure doesn't like it then
20:07	justin_smith	nullptr: ring would handle it fine
20:07	justin_smith	(I don't actually use compojure)
20:08	mercwithamouth	nice!
20:08	mercwithamouth	thanks...there we go. now i can play...
20:08	nullptr	yeah it's good to do enough with just ring that you convince yourself you need compojure
20:08	nullptr	both great libraries
20:09	justin_smith	nullptr: we actually replaced compojure because it sucks at data driven route generation and reverse routing
20:09	mercwithamouth	yeah, i'm just taking my time and going through clojure and web chapter, web dev with clojure and wikipedia now to get a good handle on things i was guarded from in the past
20:09	dbasch	mercwithamouth: nonsequitur, but you should enforce a longer minimum password length :)
20:10	nullptr	justin_smith: yeah, i stumbled upon bidi recently which has a generation story -- did you do something custom?
20:10	mercwithamouth	dbasch: 8 fair enough?
20:10	justin_smith	nullptr: for the caribou project we have our own lib, caribou/polaris
20:10	dbasch	mercwithamouth: I use 12
20:11	mercwithamouth	jeethus...
20:11	dbasch	mercwithamouth: btw, why do you have pass and pass1?
20:12	justin_smith	dbasch: "your passwords did not match, please try again"
20:12	dbasch	justin_smith: that’s something you probably want to handle in the front-end, you don’t need a round-trip to the server for that
20:12	justin_smith	fair enough
20:13	mercwithamouth	dbasch: i'm debating on making the user enter the password in twice during registration
20:13	dbasch	mercwithamouth: you should, but that’s the browser’s business
20:13	amalloy	mercwithamouth: i recently discovered that one of my 8-character passwords can be looked up on the web, just by typing its md5 into google. 8 characters is not really enough to be secure
20:13	Frozenlock	mercwithamouth: Do you have email password?
20:13	Frozenlock	*reset
20:14	mercwithamouth	Frozenlock: nah i don't have anything as of yet...
20:14	mercwithamouth	amalloy: hmm...good to know....12 it is then
20:14	Frozenlock	Then yes, you should absolutely ask the user to input the psw twice.
20:15	l1x	bbloom: how would you remove a key from the map with swap! ? can i use dissoc-in or you have a better idea?
20:15	bbloom	l1x: just update-in with dissoc
20:15	mercwithamouth	my first app is going to be a note taking app similar to a blog....i have a few ideas i'd like to add on to a traditional blog then after that i'll move on to something serious
20:15	bbloom	or just swap with dissoc directly
20:15	bbloom	,(swap! (atom {:x 1}) dissoc :x)
20:15	clojurebot	{}
20:16	l1x	awesome!
20:16	mercwithamouth	long term it's a blog engine that allows annotations, versioning and private posts for me only. you'll be able to upload markdown files to create your posts(not a static blog generator)
20:16	l1x	clojure and #clojure makes my life easier :)
20:17	mercwithamouth	#clojure is pretty good...i can even ask my silly questions here and not get flamed
20:32	l1x	hahah
20:33	l1x	well, i dont think that the clojure community is particularly flammable :)
20:33	bbloom	it's true. we're all robots made out of inert metals
20:33	justin_smith	combustion is a mutation, we don't go for that around here
20:34	AWizzArd	core.async experts here? I saw the first code example here: http://stuartsierra.com/2013/12/08/parallel-processing-with-core-async
20:34	AWizzArd	The `parallel` FN, and wonder why it was written that way.
20:35	AWizzArd	Instead of the let, doall and repeatedly there could have been a simple (dotimes [i n] (go-loop …)).
20:35	AWizzArd	And that last go block, which returns a channel also seems not to do much.
20:35	mercwithamouth	ha
20:36	justin_smith	AWizzArd: with dotimes, where would the channel that returns the result be?
20:36	mercwithamouth	hopefully i'll have my hands on Om next month...that looks really interesting. i'll tinker with react with js for a few days first i suppose
20:37	AWizzArd	justin_smith: the parallel FN takes an explicit `output` chan as argument.
20:38	AWizzArd	It writes all its results there.
20:38	justin_smith	AWizzArd: oh, sorry, I'm just looking at this for the first time
20:38	AWizzArd	np
20:38	bbloom	AWizzArd: no idea why he didn't just use dotimes, but the purpose of the final go block is to give you an "all done" message
20:39	bbloom	AWizzArd: w/o closing the explicit output channel, since you may have other people who are writing to that
20:39	AWizzArd	bbloom: how would the all done message look?
20:40	AWizzArd	bbloom: a simple return of nil?
20:40	bbloom	AWizzArd: something like (do (<! (parallel 5 f input output)) (close! output))
20:41	bbloom	AWizzArd: the returned channel will simply close after the doseq and closed channels yield nils from attempted reads
20:42	bbloom	AWizzArd: so the caller can block on the return expression, which will close when the doseq finishes internally
20:42	AWizzArd	Hmm, in my experiments the return channel always replies with nil.
20:43	AWizzArd	ah no, wait
20:45	AWizzArd	bbloom: okay, the returned channel always blocks, until I close the input chan.
20:45	bbloom	AWizzArd: try a simpler example
20:45	AWizzArd	did
20:45	bbloom	(<!! (go 1))
20:45	AWizzArd	And the idea is: the caller of parallel, who will receive this return channel, has no info of the status of the input chan?
20:45	bbloom	use the !! versions when testing in your repl
20:45	bbloom	at the top level anyway
20:45	AWizzArd	yes, I used the !!
20:46	AWizzArd	Right now I was just thinking: when I put the input chan as arg, then why can’t I know that it was closed? So why would I need the return chan as info to know that the input chan was closed.
20:47	bbloom	AWizzArd: it seems to attempt to exhaust input channels
20:47	AWizzArd	I understand now that it works as you suggested. Now I just look for a scenario where I would like to know that the input channel was closed.
20:49	bbloom	AWizzArd: this parallel function knows when an input channel is closed b/c it returns nil... and then each go loop in here will run until it can send that value...
20:49	bbloom	the output channel may be backed up
20:49	bbloom	so input may close long before the go-loops terminate after succeeding to write to output
20:49	bbloom	the final go block exists to wait until all inputs have been fully exhausted and successfully copied to the output channel
20:50	AWizzArd	Hmm yes.
20:50	AWizzArd	I just tested it.
20:50	AWizzArd	I started 5 jobs, but didn’t read any result. Now I checked if the return chan is closed, and it wasn't.
20:51	AWizzArd	Then I closed the input chan, but reading from the return chan still blocked. First I had to read all 5 outputs from the out chan, and immediately afterwards the return chan got closed.
20:51	AWizzArd	Okay fine, then this is all clear now.
20:51	bbloom	try creating a buffered output channel
20:51	bbloom	just to see how that behaves
20:52	AWizzArd	And this also explains why he used repeatedly vs. dotimes
20:52	bbloom	it does?
20:52	bbloom	oh, b/c he needed the output channels, oh yeah
20:52	AWizzArd	yes
20:52	bbloom	that makes sense, but i'd have done it differently :-P
20:53	AWizzArd	bbloom: yes, with a buffered out chan the return chan immediately closes (of course), when the input chan gets closed.
20:54	AWizzArd	bbloom: do you have a spontaneous idea how you would have written that parallel FN?
20:56	AWizzArd	bbloom: only this doall seems to not be required
20:56	AWizzArd	as the following doseq completly eats the repeatedly
20:56	bbloom	AWizzArd: the doall is definitely required
20:56	bbloom	AWizzArd: nope!
20:56	AWizzArd	It funnily seems to work.
20:56	bbloom	the doseq will block on the first input to be exhausted
20:56	AWizzArd	I just tried it without the doall and right now it looks as if it behaves the same way.
20:57	bbloom	it's going to force an ordering, breaking the parallel feature of the parallelism :-P
20:57	amalloy	ugh, why does ring accept InputStream but not Reader? it's supposed to be sending characters
20:58	justin_smith	amalloy: well ring can send arbitrary data - or am I misunderstanding you?
20:58	amalloy	AWizzArd: if you remove the doall, then you'll only spin up tasks the moment you start trying to read from them
20:58	bbloom	AWizzArd: h/o my dopey core.async env isn't sane, can't test :-P
20:59	AWizzArd	amalloy: excellent, I think now we fully covered that code
20:59	justin_smith	wtf chrome tells me I am sending content type text/plain curl -D tells me it is application/rss+xml ...
20:59	AWizzArd	Thanks bbloom and amalloy.
21:00	amalloy	justin_smith: your server could be making a decision based on the request headers
21:00	amalloy	did you send the exact same request that chrome did?
21:00	justin_smith	OK how do I tell ring "no really this is rss not plain text"
21:00	justin_smith	amalloy: no, I did not
21:01	AWizzArd	bbloom: although working with go in Clojure should not run in parallel anyway, no?
21:01	bbloom	AWizzArd: go will use a threadpool on the jvm, you'll get actual parallelism
21:01	AWizzArd	ah okay, good
21:01	amalloy	if you want to act exactly like chrome: open chrome's network tab, issue the request again, and right-click "copy as curl"
21:02	justin_smith	amalloy: OK - but my core priority is telling browsers the content is rss - any idea about how that would work?
21:03	amalloy	but anyway, justin_smith, you just set the content-type header. if you're setting it server-side and that's not appearing on the client end, then check whether you have some middleware that's clobbering it
21:04	justin_smith	amalloy: I spent a couple days doing that :) curl sees the right header, with chrome it is clobbered somehow, you are probably right about something in chrome's request overriding but I just find that baffling
21:05	justin_smith	amalloy: not only that but I scoured the repos of my web libs looking for errant code that may have gotten pulled in in the handler logic...
21:05	justin_smith	(which is why frameworks suck)
21:06	amalloy	i mean, i would guess it's the Accept header
21:07	amalloy	there are definitely middlewares that decide what to return based on the content types the client would prefer
21:08	amalloy	and chrome could well say it prefers text/plain to application/rss+xml
21:08	amalloy	it's easy enough to check that by looking at the headers chrome is sending, rather than diving through miles of frameworks
21:08	justin_smith	Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,image/webp,/;q=0.8
21:08	justin_smith	yeah
21:08	justin_smith	amalloy: I guess I know that now, thanks
21:11	justin_smith	if I had my wits about me I would have tried a different user agent sooner, firefox happily shows the feed items and offers the option to subscribe as expected
21:12	amalloy	i was about to ask, does chrome even support rss?
21:12	amalloy	it doesn't have anything built-in afaik
21:13	justin_smith	I would have thought it would at least offered me the "what do you want to do with this, it is rss" prompt, but I guess that wasn't a realistic expectation
21:13	amalloy	here's 4clojure's rss feed: http://www.4clojure.com/problems/rss - we don't even bother setting the content-type, so it defaults to text/html, and rss-aware user agents don't care
21:15	dbasch	chrome used to prompt you to subscribe using Google Reader
21:15	dbasch	which is no more, as you probably know
21:15	justin_smith	amalloy: I am pretty sure you don't care about validation, but in case you do http://validator.w3.org/feed/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.4clojure.com%2Fproblems%2Frss
21:16	amalloy	haha
21:17	amalloy	broken since june of 2012, justin_smith. descrption indeed
21:17	AWizzArd	I must click on that link…
21:18	amalloy	Raynes: bro, two years ago you spelled "description" wrong: https://github.com/4clojure/4clojure/commit/5e6af1b83b4a236e11a09d591cab5870b4987e82#diff-b68cf9b369d8cc1aa59eef3daa7f491bR23
21:19	Raynes	Whoa, I worked on 4clojure two years ago?
21:19	Raynes	Am I really destined to feel old at 21? :\|
21:19	Raynes	Because I'm getting there.
21:20	amalloy	your first 4clojure commits were over three years ago, old man: https://github.com/4clojure/4clojure/commits?author=Raynes
21:20	Raynes	e
21:20	Raynes	Wow, is that how little I've done for 4clojure?
21:20	Raynes	Why do people give me credit for it :\|
21:22	justin_smith	Raynes: get this cane, it is an umbrella and a sword too (I bought it at a thrift store by mistake, thinking I was just getting an umbrella) http://www.swordsforsale.us/SingleSwordsForSale.asp?ID=22975&Cat=Sword%20Canes
21:22	Raynes	"but shit, it was 99 cents!"
21:22	Raynes	Sorry man, I can't get through a 'thrift store' mention without a macklemore reference.
21:22	Raynes	It's like a disease.
21:22	dbasch	Raynes: I wrote my first game in 1983. It was a Pacman clone. In Basic.
21:22	justin_smith	indeed, they didn't know what they had
21:23	Raynes	dbasch: I didn't say my feeling old was justified :P
21:23	dbasch	Raynes: good. I don’t feel old :P
21:24	Raynes	dbasch: Apparently I wrote my first game in 2009 and it wasn't really much of a game as much as it was a collection of gtk buttons and text fields.
21:25	dbasch	Raynes: my Pacman wasn’t much fun either. I couldn’t make the ghosts go around the maze so they went through walls.
21:25	dbasch	Raynes: I thought “whatever, they are ghosts"
21:25	justin_smith	dbasch: more realistic, reflecting the supernatural abilities of actual ghosts
21:25	justin_smith	it's not a bug, it's verisimilitude
21:26	justin_smith	on reflection, what you said
21:26	dbasch	justin_smith: they just made a bee line for Pacman, only slowly enough that you could escape
21:26	justin_smith	nice
21:27	dbasch	the last game I wrote was probably 10 years ago
21:27	dbasch	unless you count this as a game: https://gist.github.com/dbasch/6923514
21:27	justin_smith	I should make an extensible clojure based nethack
21:28	TEttinger	justin_smith: haha already beat you to it, kinda
21:28	justin_smith	really? do tell
21:29	TEttinger	(in that it uses tiles from a graphical nethack)
21:29	TEttinger	https://github.com/tommyettinger/Ravager completely undocumented! has some neat features like ambush point detection!
21:30	justin_smith	nice
21:30	amalloy	$google caves of clojure
21:30	lazybot	[The Caves of Clojure: Part 1 / Steve Losh] http://stevelosh.com/blog/2012/07/caves-of-clojure-01/
21:30	TEttinger	current version looks like https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11914692/Ravager-thin-walls.PNG -- I stopped because I couldn't figure out how I should do a GUI
21:31	amalloy	that was a really nice series of blog posts about writing nethack in clojure, by...i think he's sjl here in #clojure
21:31	justin_smith	very cool
21:32	justin_smith	I wonder what the state of the art is for algorithmically generating sokoban puzzles
22:00	TEttinger	sjl: I might try to follow through Caves of Clojure using SquidLib for output instead of Lanterna. should be interesting.
23:11	livingston	I had some code that was reading the class path and looking up resources on it that matched a pattern -- now my classpath seems empty. One thing I've changed was adding a nrepl dependency (was using swank before) will that much with the loader/classpath?
23:11	livingston	much with -> muck with
23:14	livingston	gah I just realized I had a cider dependency in there too - cutting that out now.
23:17	livingston	nope that's gone and changed nothing. I do have nrepl still.
23:23	justin_smith	how are you starting clojure, and how are you looking at the classpath?
23:24	livingston	I'm starting it with maven clojure:nrepl
23:24	livingston	I was using this (clojure.java.classpath/classpath)
23:25	livingston	all I see now is this (#<File /var/folders/bk/w587c61d02s2hkn5zqs4zlnm0000gs/T/clojuremavenplugin2851089989068089718jar>)
23:25	livingston	which I guess points some fingers at clojure maven plugin
23:29	livingston	that plug in is set up like this (I think I moved up to the most recent one, otherwise haven't changed) https://gist.github.com/drlivingston/cdf20840b4c26910182c#file-clojure-maven-pom-part-pom
23:34	livingston	argh! I reverted to clojure maven plugin 1.3.9 and now low and behold there are all my class path contents.
23:36	livingston	I guess I'll file an issue for this.
23:41	justin_smith	livingston: leiningen tends to work very nicely, in my experience
23:41	justin_smith	do you have a specific reason to use maven instead?
23:42	livingston	I have to integrate with a lot of existing java.
23:43	livingston	maven has a lot of really useful tools that are being replicated in lein, maybe most of them are there now since last time I messed around with it. but I don't quite understand the xml fear
23:43	beamso	i'm unsure if it's xml fear or people's memories of maven
23:44	justin_smith	you can still use maven tools in a lein project, after using lein pom to make a pom.xml
23:45	justin_smith	but if maven works that's cool, just making sure you know most of us use lein and it pretty much just works
23:45	livingston	yeah that just seems like an extra step. also yet another thing to rock the boat with the in-house java people
23:45	justin_smith	that's a good point, yeah
23:45	justin_smith	another alternative is using lein jar to compile the clojure into an artifact, and continuing to use maven on the java side
23:46	justin_smith	if you can strictly segregate the two at least
23:46	livingston	some things aren't that clean