#clojure – 2014-04-01

2014-04-01

00:03	tmciver	chare: if I understand you, you may be looking for (use :reload . . .)
00:03	tmciver	chare: or (require :reload . . .)
00:03	arrdem	tmciver: chare is the resident troll. fair warning.
00:04	arrdem	clojurebot: chare \|is\| the resident troll. please do not feed.
00:04	amalloy	he's been pretty reasonable today
00:04	arrdem	I can't tell :P
00:04	arrdem	now that erc and irssi are actually persisting my ignore lists...
00:05	tmciver	poor chare . . .
00:07	chare	I am not a troll
00:19	xpera	I've been waiting quite a long time to report a big limitation in Leiningen: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1484
00:19	bob2	troll or child, hard to tell
00:20	xpera	bob2: I'm 17 minutes late
00:20	bob2	oh, not you
00:28	arrdem	xpera: I'm actually pretty opposed to PC-CLOJURE, just because 16 bit processors and OSs need to die
00:29	arrdem	xpera: there's a reason that MS-DOS is now open... it's a worthless platform
00:29	chare	we need to make windows die
00:29	chare	linux only
00:33	aedon	Anyone use lighttable? I'm looking for some clever way to have a 'scratch area' for interactive evaluation at the end of a file that doesn't normally get evaluated? Comments won't work, because lighttable will evaluate the comment. Any ideas?
00:35	xpera	arrdem: but PC-CLOJURE needs all the help it can get
00:36	arrdem	xpera: PC-* is dead. let it moulder with nonpaged computers
00:36	arrdem	oh. 4/1
00:36	arrdem	,(apply head #'desk)
00:36	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: head in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
00:37	xpera	arrdem: I'm shamefully trying to get some votes at https://news.ycombinator.com/newest
00:37	arrdem	damnit... I was gonna post actual content today...
00:38	xpera	the noise to signal is high today
00:40	arrdem	I wonder how long it'd take to build urbit-clojure...
00:40	arrdem	and whether I could finish if I all night and ditch this morning's test...
01:03	noprompt_	WebSocket connection to 'ws://localhost:3000/ws' failed: One or more reserved bits are on: reserved1 = 1, reserved2 = 0, reserved3 = 0
01:03	noprompt_	fuck you
01:23	bellkev	I have a quick question regarding vars: Does anybody know exactly why they are callable, but you need to dereference them to do other things with them?
01:24	bellkev	This occurred to me when trying to understand the syntax for (run-jetty #'my-app ...) to enable wrap-reload to work with compojure routes...
01:24	bob2	is anyone using lein's repository auth stuff? it looks a lot to me like it's not sending auth headers and I can't figure out why.
01:25	akhudek	bellkev: usually it just gets the value of the var
01:25	akhudek	bellkev: but in the case of things that want dynamic rebinding you want the symbol instead, I think
01:25	akhudek	bellkev: so that when you change whta the var references, the code can pick that up
01:28	bellkev	akhudek: I get that you only need to use the var in the case of jetty-run to get the dynamic reloading behavior, but after you do that, the app handler you pass it gets called as a function. I'm wondering why it was decided that you can just call a var (i.e. that implements IFn), instead of having to dereference it first, e.g. with var-get
01:28	akhudek	bellkev: ah, I do not know
02:19	noprompt_	Raynes: conch so awesome.
02:55	tsdh	What's the right predicate for testing if something is a composite form, e.g., a funcall? list? isn't it because it says true for '(foo 1 2) but false for `(foo 1 2). So I probably want seq?, right?
04:07	xsyn	How do I cons a java.util.regex.Pattern?
04:07	xsyn	into a seq
04:08	pyrtsa	,(let [xs ()] (cons #"foo" xs)) ;; why would you do that?
04:08	clojurebot	(#"foo")
04:14	broquaint	tsdh: Yeah seq? probably does what you want (although I'm not entirely sure what that is).
04:14	AeroNotix	,(list #"foo")
04:14	clojurebot	(#"foo")
04:14	xsyn	I got confused
04:14	xsyn	I put a cons and a join in the wrong order
04:15	tsdh	broquaint: Ok, thanks.
04:42	clgv	I want to get emacs 24 running with SBCL - is there any recent good guide to set up slime, paredit etc?
04:42	clgv	my old init.el from last year fails with strange errors
04:51	cmpitg	clgv: Perhaps it's better to ask in #emacs?
04:52	cmpitg	clgv: What errors did you encounter?
04:53	clgv	cmpitg: slime.elc:Error: Don't know how to compile nil
04:54	clgv	yeah maybe, I just know that here are usually a lot of helpful people knowing emacs ;)
04:54	cmpitg	Try removing all *.elc files?
04:55	clgv	cmpitg: *.elc are compiled files?
04:55	cmpitg	Yeah
04:55	cmpitg	find ~/.emacs.d/ -regex ".*\.elc$" -delete
04:56	cmpitg	elc files are byte-compiled from el
04:56	clgv	cmpitg: no that did not help
04:56	clgv	slime.el:Error: Don't know how to compile nil
04:56	cmpitg	Restarting Emacs doesn't work?
04:56	clgv	I installed slime.el:Error: Don't know how to compile nil
04:57	clgv	emacs startsup with that error message in the buffer
04:57	cmpitg	What's your Slime config?
04:58	cmpitg	And how did you install Slime?
04:58	clgv	version is slime-20100404.1
04:58	clgv	via the package-list-packages
04:58	clgv	currently just that https://www.refheap.com/70125
05:00	cmpitg	Strange, the version you have is too old
05:01	cmpitg	I'm using 20140320.1021 from Melpa
05:01	cmpitg	Try getting latest version then?
05:01	clgv	humm maybe it's the one provided with ubuntu
05:01	cmpitg	(add-to-list 'package-archives
05:01	cmpitg	'("melpa" . "http://melpa.milkbox.net/packages/"))
05:01	cmpitg	(package-refresh-contents)
05:01	cmpitg	Then install
05:02	clgv	do I need to require anything before your add-to-list? since I get: "Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-variable package-archives)"
05:03	cmpitg	Ah, it should be require'd by default if you're using 24. How about (require 'package) then add-to-list?
05:04	clgv	yeah added (require 'package) now
05:06	cmpitg	Does it work?
05:09	clgv	yes, thanks!
05:09	clgv	now lets see if I get all the features back^^
05:11	luxbock	hi, I don't completely understand how inline funcitons work (so I probably shouldn't be using them), but I have function that defines an anonymous function from a matrix, and then that anonymous function does lookups from the matrix based on the indices many times in a loop
05:11	clgv	cmpitg: is there a way to add all packages of a directory to the load-path?
05:11	clgv	luxbock: and the question is?
05:11	luxbock	I was wondering if I could expect a performance improvement by adding the :inline meta-data into the anonymous function definition?
05:11	cmpitg	clgv: Yes, gimme a moment
05:13	clgv	my emacs foo is weak ;) I just need it once a year for the SBCL course...
05:13	cmpitg	clgv: Something like this https://gist.github.com/cmpitg/f2c1b76329f7ff2a60d9
05:14	clgv	ah ok programatically. thanks!
05:14	cmpitg	Gladly :-)
05:14	luxbock	it would essentially be (fn [a b] {:inline (fn [a b] `(mget m ~a ~b)) } (mget m a b))
05:15	clgv	cmpitg: yes, my old init.el works now! thanks a lot!
05:16	clgv	luxbock: lambda functions (= anonymous functions) can not be inline
05:16	luxbock	alright, so my question doesn't make much sense then, good to know :)
05:17	cmpitg	clgv: :-)
05:17	clgv	cmpitg: damn one remaining problem. swank seems to be too old as well. I get a warning when I fire up slime
05:18	cmpitg	Do you use quicklisp?
05:18	clgv	cmpitg: not yet. but I could change that
05:19	cmpitg	clgv: It's highly recommended. Awesome package manager for CL :-)
05:19	cmpitg	Latest Slime from Melpa and Swank from Quicklisp work quite well
05:22	clgv	cmpitg: did try (ql:quickload "swank") but emacs still uses the old swank. would it work if I install it via quicklisp as root?
05:23	cmpitg	Ah, Emacs' Swank should come with Slime
05:23	cmpitg	Just restart your Emacs, ignore if it complains, and enjoy
05:55	doky	i want to ask: do i have to have installed clojure if i run my app as standole.jar which i built with leiningen uberjar ?
05:55	doky	when i run in java -jar standolone.jar it fails with Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/lang/IFn
05:56	doky	or what is the purpose that it fails im using lein2
06:13	broquaint	doky: Yeah clojure should be bundled in with your uberjar AIUI.
06:14	doky	in jar it already is
06:19	clgv	doky: you only need a Java Runtime Environment for standalone jars build with leiningen
06:20	doky	in jar file ? because i can run any jar for example i created by java etc
06:21	doky	clgv: in jar file ? because i can run any jar for example i created by java etc
06:22	clgv	doky: yeah "lein uberjar" leads to my-project-standalone.jar which you can simply run per java -jar my-project-standalone.jar on any machine with a compatible java version
06:23	doky	clgv: but when i run it it fails with java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/lang/IFn i have (:gen-class) only in file with main but in jar are all files i need
06:23	doky	clgv: and also in jar file there is clojure and manifest is correct with Main-class
06:24	clgv	doky: sounds about right
06:27	clgv	doky: do you have a pure clojure project or some complex interop a la java uses clojure
06:27	doky	clgv: no only clojure, and i am using http-kit, it is a webapp with clojurescript
06:28	clgv	doky: it is not publically available on github?
06:28	doky	no :/
06:29	clgv	doky: just to eliminate weird cases did you try "lein do clean, uberjar" already?
06:29	doky	no i build it only with lein2 uberjar
06:29	doky	clgv: i will try clean it
06:34	doky	clgv: it still fails with same error
06:39	clgv	doky: can you post a complete stacktrace on refheap.com?
06:42	doky	clgv: here it is: https://www.refheap.com/70132
06:45	doky	clgv: oh in jar under clojure directory there is no lang folder ... only core, data, java, tools
06:45	clgv	doky: well that's a problem then. did you add jar/uberjar exlucsions to your project.clj?
06:46	doky	clgv: no i haven't but i even dont know how to add it there ... :/
06:46	clgv	doky: can you post your project.clj?
06:46	oskarth	What'
06:47	oskarth	What's a more idiomatic way to do this: {"email" (:email m) "address[line1]" (:address m) "address[city]" (:city m) "address[postal_code]" (:postalCode m)}?
06:47	doky	clgv: https://www.refheap.com/70133
06:48	clgv	oskarth: probably something using `reduce-kv` on the map and `name` to get the string from the keyword
06:50	clgv	doky: I dont see any reason in the project.clj which could cause that error.
06:55	doky	clgv: so how do i can get lang there ?
07:03	clgv	doky: if you try an empty project that just prints hello world in its main and build an uberjar from that you'll see that all of clojure ends up in the uberjar.
07:03	clgv	doky: I have no idea why it does not in your project...
07:04	doky	clgv: ok i will try it
08:03	noncom	hi, anyone working with CCW here?
08:05	Frozenlo`	I hate April 1st. The Internet is unusable.
08:05	CookedGryphon	yeah, feel it has jumped the shark a bit this year
08:06	CookedGryphon	though I did contribute to the noise a bit myself (using clojurescript and core.async) - http://www.swiftkey.net/en/blog/untap-your-potential-with-swiftkey-flow-hard/
08:07	CookedGryphon	core.async made throttling the prediction updates to the server really trivial, would have been a nightmare otherwise
08:16	wunki	In my ring handler I'm using the `:params` to fetch the id from the URI. But with ring-mock the `:params` key is not populated. Any tips how to test a handler like this?
08:40	AeroNotix	weird question-- is there something which acts like (str) but will convert nil to "nil" ?
08:40	AeroNotix	,(str nil)
08:40	clojurebot	""
08:41	CookedGryphon	,(pr-str nil)
08:41	clojurebot	"nil"
08:41	AeroNotix	CookedGryphon: cheers!
09:02	mskoud	trying to convert a list to a map, but would like to have a list for each record in the map. (into {} (map (fn [x] [(x :id) x]) [{:id 1 :data 2} {:id 2 :data 3} {:id 1 :data 4}])) ditch (as expected) :data 4 , but i would like to keep it...
09:02	mskoud	'(into {} (map (fn [x] [(x :id) x]) [{:id 1 :data 2} {:id 2 :data 3} {:id 1 :data 4}]))
09:05	mskoud	(group-by #(% :id) [{:id 1 :data 2} {:id 2 :data 3} {:id 1 :data 4}]) seems to work :-)
09:12	gfredericks	(group-by :id [...]) would likely do the same thing
09:12	brunov	mskoud: I think you can drop the #(% :id) and just use :id
09:13	brunov	gfredericks: you beat me to it by a millisecond :)
09:29	fro-	does anybody used orientdb with clojure? How it was, any pitfalls? Seems that native driver has'nt updated for 2 years..
10:40	Guest5277	is anyone having issues connecting to a lighttable project? When using the latest clojurescript 2197 it doesn't work. 2173 works fine.
10:53	gfredericks	having a library define print-dup for a 3rd-party type isn't as egregious as print-method...yeah?
10:56	cemerick	nice: stackoverflow in the CLJS compiler. This is going to be fun. :-P
11:28	germanmushroom	why does (defn grab-content [url]) (slurp url) return nil when called? Its a just slurp wrapper, calling slurp directly does grab the correct content
11:29	joegallo	if that's a 100% literal copy paste, then it's because you have a misplaced paren
11:29	germanmushroom	oh shit...
11:30	joegallo	;)
11:30	germanmushroom	that didn't happen!
11:30	germanmushroom	:p
11:33	cemerick	Wow: a CLJS codebase that compiled fine with 2173 was failing with a stackoverflow under 2197. Experimentation revealed that the -XX:TieredStopAtLevel=1 arg that Leiningen adds by default was the root cause; removing it yielded a clean compile.
11:34	cemerick	Interestingly, leaving the tiered compilation args in as Leiningen defaults, but bumping up the thread stack size (doubling in my case, -Xss2m) also yields a clean compile.
11:34	cemerick	dnolen_, technomancy ^^
11:35	cemerick	I'm now inclined to always set _some_ :jvm-opts in lein-cljsbuild, so that lein's tiered compilation default args aren't added.
11:51	puredanger	could also ^:replace [] ? also, weird.
11:52	AmandaC	What exactly is the -> function thing? I’ve seen it crop up here and there, but I’m at a loss as to what it is
11:53	cbp	AmandaC: http://blog.fogus.me/2009/09/04/understanding-the-clojure-macro/
11:54	AmandaC	oooo, shiny
11:54	AmandaC	thanks, cbp
11:55	cemerick	puredanger: That's the effect of defining any :jvm-opts in project.clj. The defaults are omitted entirely in that case (e.g. :jvm-opts [])
11:56	puredanger	Is that true? I thought :jvm-opts was additive if you did not ^:replace ? (in which case empty opts has no effect)
11:56	cemerick	puredanger: but, yes. Makes a little sense, insofar as the tiered compilation stuff probably has more thread allocation overhead for cljsbuild's relatively short process lifetime (since it's interpreting for longer, rather than aggressively JIT'ing).
11:57	cemerick	puredanger: Nope, empty [] replaces; verified via `lein pprint` and jvisualvm.
11:57	cemerick	Also, my build working (or not) ;-)
11:57	puredanger	cool, that must have changed at some point
11:58	cemerick	I'm writing this up in a stable spot in a lein-cljsbuild issue, so people can gawk at it.
11:58	puredanger	<gawk>
11:59	puredanger	if we just used sbt we wouldn't have these problems.
11:59	puredanger	sorry, too much april foolery today
12:03	cemerick	puredanger: you need to be more subtle, that's too obvious :-P
12:18	rootex	what's stopping cljs from reaching version 0.1? ;)
12:24	devn	heh
12:25	devn	cljs feels like it's at 1.6 to me
12:26	devn	err 1.3-1.5, something in there
12:27	devn	it'd be kind of nice if stable versions matched clojure releases
12:28	devn	in other news, currently spinning at 800% CPU. Emacs is hung. Is it possible to `lein repl :connect` to save my session from dying? This task has been running for 4 hours and it might go for another 4, but I would like my emacs back.
12:28	devn	It would be a bummer to kill it now, but I'm thinking I might have to
12:28	technomancy	~tias
12:28	clojurebot	tias is try it and see
12:29	devn	technomancy: heh, i dont want to lose my session, so if you have a guess, that'd be helpful
12:29	devn	i worry a bit that force quitting emacs will cause the server to die either way
12:30	technomancy	oh sure, if you jacked in then your session won't survive emacs quitting
12:30	technomancy	I thought you were asking whether you could get it out of this hung state, which is harder to say
12:31	devn	technomancy: /me hands you a code of conduct and a lemonade
12:31	technomancy	you definitely should be able to connect to the process through a cli repl
12:31	devn	well, i /can/, but it hasn't shown me a prompt yet
12:31	justin_smith	sometimes you can rescue a program and turn a hang into a small error by connecting via gdb, stopping, popping up some number of stack frames, and resuming
12:32	devn	i assume because my there is a crazy amount of GC going on
12:32	justin_smith	though usually killing and starting over is sufficient and easier
12:32	devn	s/my//
12:33	devn	I may start over either way just to try and figure out how to partition this work. I think I need some clojure perf action
12:33	devn	no.disassemble time? maybe.
12:33	devn	justin_smith: also, im going to keep bugging you until you get back to me about stopping out in portland :)
12:34	devn	cemerick knows how persistent i can be. i think it's been 2.5 years and im still asking for him to hook me up with some source he promised.
12:40	clgv	devn: for higher level try "luyten" or "jd-gui"
12:44	gfredericks	oh man java.util.Random is not very random
12:45	gfredericks	seeds 0=>4095 will give a number between 0.5 and 1.0 when you call nextDouble
12:46	gfredericks	I guess the seed has to be pretty random too O_O
12:51	ToxicFrog	gfredericks: Java, per the spec, uses a very simple LCG. It's kind of shit.
12:52	devn	gfredericks: mersenne twister
12:53	gfredericks	does this mean that test.check's habit of using currentTimeMillis for the seed is a bad idea?
12:54	gfredericks	and (.nextLong (java.util.Random. (System/currentTimeMillis))) would be a better seed?
12:55	bbloom	gfredericks: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/security/SecureRandom.html
12:55	amalloy	gfredericks: actually i'm surprised Random doesn't let you ask what seed you would need to use to get a Random like this one
12:56	amalloy	there's no way test.check needs cryptographically secure randomness
12:57	gfredericks	amalloy: oh surely not
12:57	reiddraper	gfredericks: not sure i follow, currentTimeMillis returns something like 1396371284007, not 0-4095
12:57	gfredericks	reiddraper: right, I just didn't know if there would be other ranges of seeds that give constant output for certain operations
12:58	reiddraper	ah, quite possibly
12:58	reiddraper	admitedly its not something i've looked into much
12:58	gfredericks	gen/boolean gives true for 0->4096; what if it also gives true for some month-long range of currentTimeMillis?
12:58	amalloy	probably there are, but i doubt it makes much difference to test.check
12:58	gfredericks	I guess that only affects the first round of tests
12:59	amalloy	maybe the first coin you flip always comes up heads, for a period of several minutes. even if that's true, the coins after that in each run will be different
12:59	gfredericks	amalloy: righto; good points all; test.check is teh best
12:59	amalloy	and a single run of test.check flips a lot of coins, i bet
12:59	gfredericks	I made a for-gen macro
12:59	gfredericks	or gen-for; or whatever a good name is
12:59	amalloy	gfredericks: so it's like bind, with :when/:while/:let, or what?
12:59	gfredericks	it can replace bind, fmap, and such-that
13:00	gfredericks	amalloy: yeah, but I don't think :while makes sense?
13:00	amalloy	probably not
13:00	gfredericks	I think I wrote this like a year ago and can't remember if reiddraper thought it would fit in test.check
13:00	gfredericks	s/year/6-months/
13:00	amalloy	gfredericks: well, bind can already replace fmap and such-that, so you're really just replacing bind, right
13:01	reiddraper	gfredericks: likely, yes. i still intend to get nested-property support in sometime soon, now that things have picked up steam a bit
13:01	gfredericks	clojurebot: amalloy is right again
13:01	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
13:02	gfredericks	april 1st is a good day to experiment with being wrong
13:02	amalloy	oh man
13:02	amalloy	i could just give terrible advice in #clojure all day
13:02	amalloy	"why don't you try type-hinting that"
13:03	amalloy	"just use defstruct"
13:03	gfredericks	I know a 5yo who just learned about april fools and thinks it's just saying arbitrary false things followed by "April fools! <uproarious laughter>"
13:03	llasram	That's adorable
13:04	amalloy	awww
13:04	gfredericks	RICH HICKEY INVENTED SCALA
13:04	gfredericks	APRIL FOOLS
13:04	technomancy	gfredericks: that sounds like how my kids do knock-knock jokes
13:05	amalloy	every year i toy with the idea of an april fools joke on 4clojure, and i always decide i shouldn't spend much effort on confusing newcomers
13:05	gfredericks	technomancy: how is line 3 constructed?
13:06	technomancy	gfredericks: haven't been able to discern much of a pattern so far
13:06	gfredericks	are line 3 and 5 related?
13:07	technomancy	yeah, 3 is just a truncation of 5, which is a random phrase
13:07	gfredericks	oh nice
13:07	gfredericks	knock knock
13:07	llasram	Who's there?
13:07	gfredericks	rich hickey
13:07	llasram	Rich Hickey who?
13:07	gfredericks	rich hickey invented scala! april fools!
13:08	llasram	Adorable!
13:08	technomancy	unrelated http://achewood.com/index.php?date=01072002
13:08	technomancy	well, tenuously related
13:08	AmandaC	o.o
13:09	llasram	Awww. As an immortal child, Philippe does not himself comprehend death
13:13	gfredericks	reiddraper: should we just call it for?
13:14	reiddraper	gfredericks: seems reasonable to me
13:14	reiddraper	or maybe 'let'
13:14	reiddraper	depends on the shape of it, i suppose
13:16	gfredericks	I figured it could include :let and :when the same way clojure.core/for does
13:17	reiddraper	gfredericks: you have a couple of example uses of it?
13:18	gfredericks	I could drum one up
13:22	gfredericks	reiddraper: https://gist.github.com/fredericksgary/9918722
13:23	gfredericks	apparently :when is harder to write than I thought
13:24	reiddraper	gfredericks: thanks, i'll take a look during lunch, shortly
13:25	seangrove	,(let [a (atom [])] (swap! a conj a))
13:25	clojurebot	[#<Atom@efd40d: [#<Atom@efd40d: [#<Atom@efd40d: [#<Atom@efd40d: [#<Atom@efd40d: #>]>]>]>]>]
13:26	amalloy	seangrove: you get a stacktrace in your repl, but during printing, not during the swap!
13:27	seangrove	amalloy: Ah, I thought it was interesting since it just came up on the ml
13:27	amalloy	i don't really read the ML anymore
13:28	SegFaultAX	amalloy: You don't see the ML anymore? Just functor... monoid... monad...
13:33	seangrove	amalloy: Why's that?
13:33	seangrove	It's been kind of nice for seeing what people are working on. Not mission-critical though.
13:34	amalloy	a few reasons. the first was just that the rss feed stopped working for me, and i realized i didn't really mind
13:35	amalloy	but it's just so much slower than irc, and i only have so much time. if someone's in here, they have a question that they can't surround with five paragraphs of context that they think will be useful but really just obscures the problem
13:35	amalloy	and i can answer in a sentence without seeming rude for not writing a couple paragraphs
13:37	gfredericks	IRC: Like ML but for busy professionals.
13:37	rasmusto	~ML
13:37	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
13:37	hiredman	the mailing list lacks the darwinian forces that are at work on irc
13:38	amalloy	hah
13:38	technomancy	ken wesson and cedric greevy wouldn't last a day on freenode
13:39	hiredman	I saw an email on the list that recent began with "I am a post technical pm"
13:39	seangrove	amalloy: Interesting points
13:39	hiredman	recently
13:39	seangrove	hiredman: It's a pretty good filter, someone has to at least find it. Perhaps better pre google-groups
13:41	gfredericks	hiredman: that just means "I quit programming"?
13:41	hiredman	gfredericks: yeah, I had to ask around to see if anyone knew what that meant
13:41	justin_smith	"I got promoted from writing code to making people who write code meet deadlines"
13:44	locks	I was a post rock bassist once
13:44	locks	am I qualified for a post technical position?
13:53	moquist	We're trying to switch our otherwise open source project from datomic-free to datomic-pro, and running into the [aparently] usual questions about depending on it. I put a :repositories entry in my ~/.lein/profiles.clj to add my.datomic.com so we aren't putting it in our project.clj in github. lein is, of course, telling me to "See https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/wiki/Repeatability".
13:53	moquist	Is there a better way? Google has not told me the answer so far.
13:55	technomancy	moquist: ignoring the question of whether it makes sense to have open source that can't run without proprietary software, you should put the repositories you need into the project.clj file and configure credentials for this file to read from the environment or from credentials.clj.gpg
13:58	moquist	technomancy: Yes, I'm [somewhat] ignoring that question for now, too. I'm inclined to switch the dep to datomic-free and keep datomic-pro in a production profile.
13:59	justin_smith	will using nginx in front of http-kit with websockets be a total pain in the ass?
14:00	justin_smith	(I have used nginx in front of http-kit, and websockets in http-kit, but not both together)
14:01	amalloy	justin_smith: i think i used iptables instead of nginx for my websocket stuff. my understanding is that ngnix doesn't like to have lots of long-lived connections (which is one of the main use cases for websockets)
14:01	justin_smith	cool, thanks
14:01	moquist	technomancy: thx, BTW
14:02	technomancy	moquist: sure. I'm inclined to agree that private repos are more trouble than they're worth fwiw.
14:03	devn	aw man, sad face, "connection broken by remote peer"
14:10	marcuscreo	exit
14:10	marcuscreo	\exit
14:14	seangrove	~exit
14:14	clojurebot	exit is There is no exit
14:14	rasmusto	~^D
14:14	clojurebot	Excuse me?
14:16	justin_smith	~
14:16	clojurebot	I don't understand.
14:16	justin_smith	it is cool that you can send an EOF to IRC
14:18	doky	can anybody help with this issue ? https://www.refheap.com/70323 im using enfocus for templating
14:19	dnolen_	doky: more context is needed, what does your client side code look like?
14:22	doky	on the client side is enfocus and i'm trying to implement - user-list with users already in chatroom and so count of users varies and so i appending (even though not sorted) works but if i want to remove user who left the room its a problem
14:23	doky	dnolen_: so this is it
14:23	dnolen_	doky: i mean like a gist or refheap
14:27	dbasch	has anyone figured out the “com.google.common.io.ByteStreams.limit(Ljava/io/InputStream;J)Ljava/io/InputStream;” exception when building clojurescript with optimizations?
14:28	doky	dnolen_: https://www.refheap.com/70326
14:29	doky	dnolen_: any idea ?
14:30	dnolen_	dbasch: never heard of that issue
14:31	amalloy	dbasch: sounds like a version mismatch
14:31	amalloy	but a real stacktrace would help, as always
14:31	dbasch	using cljsbuild 1.0.2, clojurescript 2173
14:31	dbasch	stacktrace coming
14:31	dnolen_	doky: huh no idea, I don't know enfocus, ask on the ClojureScript ML
14:32	doky	ok i will try, thanks
14:33	dbasch	amalloy: full stacktrace http://pastebin.com/P78EJ8J3
14:34	amalloy	definitely a version mismatch
14:34	dbasch	google hints at a problem with the closure compiler and guava
14:34	amalloy	between what, i'm not sure. google.commons.io and closure, maybe?
14:35	dbasch	amalloy: ok, but I don’t know where to start looking
14:41	dnolen_	ClojureScript 0.0-2199 going out, just fixes annoying incorrect Google Closure warnings
14:44	dbasch	dnolen_: the problem I see has to do with a Guava method that doesn’t seem to be there
14:45	dnolen_	dbasch: sounds like a deps issues like amalloy said then
14:45	dnolen_	dbasch: I would check your deps tree to see what's up
14:47	dbasch	dnolen_: any ideas as to how to find out what’s bringing in an incorrect / old version of guava?
14:47	dnolen_	lein deps :tree
14:48	amalloy	also lein-pedantic should warn you of version mismatches, i think
14:48	amalloy	that might even be in lein itself now
14:48	dnolen_	amalloy: I think `lein deps :tree` does this for you
14:48	dnolen_	well it definitely does here on my machine anyway
14:50	seangrove	dnolen_: You've mentioned it before, but what're the remaining issues for a 1.0 cljs release? I'm not especially worried about it, just curious
14:50	dbasch	[secretary "1.1.0"] -> [org.clojure/clojurescript "0.0-2156"] -> [com.google.javascript/closure-compiler "v20131014"] -> [com.google.guava/guava "15.0"]
14:52	dbasch	actually, I found the problem
14:52	dbasch	[com.google/bitcoinj "0.11.1"] -> [com.google.guava/guava "13.0.1"]
14:52	dbasch	overrides
14:52	dbasch	[org.clojure/clojurescript "0.0-2173"] -> [com.google.javascript/closure-compiler "v20131014"] -> [com.google.guava/guava "15.0"]
14:53	dnolen_	seangrove: various compiler things need fixing (tools.analyzer integration, main namespace), various perf things (multimethods)
14:55	dnolen_	speaking of which I'm thinking 0.0-2199 should probably be the last release of ClojureScript that doesn't require 1.6.0 - I'd like to move to the new hashing stuff, and macros etc.
14:55	dbasch	thanks dnolen_ and amalloy
14:57	dbasch	of course, I need that library for my clojure build. Any elegant way to separate the dependencies other than commenting it out when I’m building clojurescript?
14:58	dnolen_	dbasch: doesn't it suggest exclusions?
15:01	justin_smith	http://lispm.dyndns.org/sbcl it looks like sbcl's april fool joke is clojure
15:06	bbloom	justin_smith: i know it's a joke, but i can't tell which part is the joke....
15:06	justin_smith	heh, I don't think we are the target audience
15:06	bbloom	justin_smith: is "haha clojure" a joke among CL people?
15:06	justin_smith	I wouldn't be surprised if it were
15:07	dnolen_	bbloom: I don't think so, only some CL people
15:07	bbloom	either way, i laughed harder at https://github.com/tpope/timl until i saw "763 commits"
15:07	technomancy	the best jokes are the ones that actually work
15:07	justin_smith	wow
15:07	tpope	bingo
15:08	bbloom	tpope: clapclap*
15:08	bbloom	technomancy: hahah, is it just mvn?
15:08	TravisD	poor tpope :(
15:09	dnolen_	bbloom: I thought the Haskell April Fool's joke was funnier https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/haskell-cafe/iMkWf7dlP8g
15:09	technomancy	bbloom: no, it's an alternate defproject syntax
15:09	bbloom	technomancy: looking at src now, hilarious. nicely done
15:09	technomancy	thanks
15:10	justin_smith	lol
15:10	justin_smith	(inc technomancy)
15:10	lazybot	⇒ 104
15:10	technomancy	it sits on the auto-activated middleware stuff
15:10	AmandaC	bbloom: I hear you’re obsessed with trees? :p
15:10	bbloom	AmandaC: true story.
15:10	AmandaC	I found your talk rather amusing. :P
15:11	bbloom	tpope: i enjoy the file extension
15:11	tpope	turns me on tbqh
15:11	bbloom	AmandaC: i'm glad you enjoyed it!
15:11	bbloom	tpope: is the the first lisp you've implemented? it's certainly a rite of passage, but you, my friend, are an insane person
15:11	tpope	yes it is
15:12	bbloom	tpope: did you get a warm fuzzy euphoria feeling?
15:12	bbloom	or did viml preclude that?
15:12	tpope	nah it was a constant high to see shit work
15:12	dbasch	dnolen_: I was excluding com.google/guava, and it was com.google.guava/guava. That fixed it
15:13	dbasch	thanks again
15:13	bbloom	tpope: awesome. congrats on a truly mad man success
15:13	tpope	I mean I reeeeeeaally understand syntax quoting after implementing it 4 or 5 times
15:13	tpope	one of them the right way, even
15:13	bbloom	haha that's entirely why i wrote backtick
15:13	AeroNotix	Does anyone know of any interesting discussions which happened about custom runtimes for Clojure?
15:13	dnolen_	tpope: can't believe you bothered with stuff like chunked seqs :)
15:14	ambrosebs	tpope: wow!
15:14	tpope	dnolen_ I had dreams of it being a viable language, man
15:14	tpope	that was a huge performance boost
15:14	amalloy	dnolen_: performance is even more important if you're compiling to viml, of course
15:14	bbloom	i am seriously grinning ear-to-ear
15:15	tpope	I mean I haven't completely given up that dream
15:15	tpope	but it's dubious enough that I haven't been able to get excited about working through the tedious stuff like documentation
15:16	bbloom	... does your repl have a debugger...?
15:17	tpope	yeah but I think it's broken
15:17	bbloom	props for even attempting it
15:17	tpope	wouldn't be that hard to get working again
15:18	tpope	well by debugger I mean "start a repl within lexical scope", not a real debugger
15:19	bbloom	close enough
15:37	brainkim	Hey peeps!
15:37	brainkim	What's the closest thing Clojure has to Haskell's `IVars` (i.e. a thread-local (I need it in clojurescript) reference type that can only be written to once (or twice if you ignore the initialization) and will drop all future writes))?
15:38	ztellman	a promise, if you ignore the thread-local bit
15:39	bbloom	could also use a core.async channel with a dropping buffer
15:40	bbloom	brainkim: maybe step back a bit and tell us what you're trying to do & we can tell you the idiomatic solution
15:40	brainkim	bbloom: I like that solution! I've been pretty much replacing most reference types with channels of some sort.
15:41	brainkim	I'm doing websocket stuff, need to set client id on the first message, but don't want it to ever change.
15:41	brainkim	I dunno.
15:41	brainkim	Thanks for the suggestions bbloom ztellman
15:42	bbloom	brainkim: sounds like both promises and channels would be overkill... why not simply (when (nil? channel-id) (swap! something assoc :channel-id 123
15:42	bbloom	... etc
15:42	brainkim	Yeah I guess I should just use an atom
15:43	brainkim	The thing is I don't want the client to send any messages until it knows its canonical id
15:44	brainkim	well, i guess i could just deref the atom and check if it's still nil
15:44	brainkim	hmmm
15:46	brainkim	What I basically want is a singleton core.async channel which will park a goroutine while it's empty and will emit the same value whenever it's `<!`ed
16:03	babilen	ban evasion
16:04	babilen	(ECHAN - don't do that!)
16:04	babilen	heh
16:09	coventry	brainkim: How about (async/onto-chan c (cycle ['v]))?
16:11	brainkim	Does to-chan/onto-chan play nicely with infinite seqs?
16:11	brainkim	that's cool!
16:17	seangrove	In the interest of balanced discussion, I'd like to see what non-top analyst predict in regards to the topic
16:18	rasmusto	numbers will decrease
16:19	technomancy	numbers will converge on pi
16:19	seangrove	There's also the possibility that it's linked to quantum-levels of randomness
16:20	seangrove	How come none of these possibilities are covered? Why do the corporate overlords of #clojure insist on censoring free speech? WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF?
16:20	bbloom	numbers will converge on e, but then oscillate back and forth and ultimately diverge
16:20	technomancy	clojurebot: wake up sheeple
16:20	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
16:20	coventry	Clojure will shortly be abandoned after the love child of Rich Hickey and Rasmus Lerdorf publically unveils serious misgivings about its upbringing.
16:21	zerokarmaleft	I have serious misgivings just about those words together in a sentence
16:25	ambrosebs	tpope: how do I lookup a deftype field in timl?
16:26	ambrosebs	tpope: sorry just finding the docs
16:26	tpope	what do you mean "look up"?
16:26	tpope	deftype was right around where I started to trail off but you can see an example in timl.buffer
16:27	ambrosebs	tpope: I meant (deftype Abc [a]) (. (Abc 1) a)
16:27	tpope	oh right, that's it
16:27	ambrosebs	Is (. (Abc 1) -a) supposed to work?
16:28	tpope	no, I tried to emulate clojure not cljs in this regard
16:29	ambrosebs	cool, fwiw it works in clojure too
16:29	tpope	oh, does it work both ways in clojure?
16:30	tpope	I thought clojure was (. x attr) or (. x (method args))
16:30	ambrosebs	tpope: I think it disambiguates between a zero argument method and a field?
16:30	tpope	I copied that but left out (.foo x) because until I made a more definitive decision
16:31	tpope	in clojurescript it does
16:31	tpope	I thought in java you could only have one or the other, so it was moot
16:31	ambrosebs	ok, the syntax is implemented in clojure, it apparently doesn't do much
16:32	tpope	good to know. I intentionally left out (.foo x) to delay making a decision on that
16:32	rasmusto	tpope: what does Tim stand for?
16:33	justin_smith	I would have guessed Timothy
16:33	tpope	timl stands for tpope viml
16:33	tpope	OBVIOUSLY
16:33	bbloom	i vote for TIMproved Meta Language
16:33	ambrosebs	:)
16:33	rasmusto	TIMproved sounds good
16:34	seangrove	clojurebot timl is unresolvable
16:34	ordnungswidrig1	where is clojure for elisp bytecode?
16:34	seangrove	clojurebot: timl is unresolvable
16:34	clojurebot	Roger.
16:34	technomancy	ordnungswidrig1: I came really close to starting that project
16:34	technomancy	ordnungswidrig1: but the fact that the emacs platform doesn't have immutable strings or lists made me hesitant
16:34	seangrove	technomancy: Did you get distracted with OCaml for elisp bytecode?
16:34	technomancy	hehe
16:34	ordnungswidrig	technomancy: when you do, then please no intermediate elisp. direct to the metal.
16:35	technomancy	"the metal" haha
16:35	bbloom	technomancy: amusingly, a text editor is probably one of the few places where mutable string constructs have an appropriate use case
16:35	technomancy	(I'm currently hacking forth, which makes me amused at every reference to "the metal" that still runs inside an operating system)
16:35	Bronsa	tpope: ambrosebs actually you can have fields/no-arg-method in java too
16:35	ordnungswidrig	bbloom: not at all, you want to have structural sharing for undo-trees!
16:35	technomancy	bbloom: actually you'd think so but that's really not true
16:35	Bronsa	tpope: ambrosebs http://sprunge.us/HGAV?clj
16:36	technomancy	bbloom: all the mutation already happens in elisp's buffer type
16:36	seangrove	Reminds me of e-texteditor, crazy authors
16:36	ordnungswidrig	technomancy: forth ist the only higher language that is authorized to talk about the metal.
16:36	ambrosebs	Bronsa: thanks
16:36	technomancy	bbloom: seeing strings that are bashed in place is actually super rare, and emacs's maintainers have expressed openness to making them immutable in a future release
16:36	tpope	Bronsa: oh weird, that's what I get for assuming
16:36	bbloom	technomancy: nevermind, i stand corrected. that's awesome
16:37	ordnungswidrig	the emacs maintainer. what are these? alle men with beards? long beards?
16:37	coventry	I had so much fun with forth on my trs-80 cc.
16:37	Bronsa	tpope: I only know this because I got bitten by a bug that assumed that that wasn't possible, so you're in good company :)
16:37	ordnungswidrig	forth is so low level that is becames powerful
16:38	technomancy	bbloom: OTOH it just makes it more frustrating that there are no guarantees =)
16:38	technomancy	you write all your code assuming strings never change, but one day someone comes along and ruins your party
16:38	llasram	"I'm here for the immutable string party. This is it?"
16:39	llasram	Then -- out comes the nine-bladed mutator
16:39	bbloom	technomancy: i've seen so many bugged ruby programs that mutate strings that are used as keys in hashes
16:39	bbloom	technomancy: sends shivers up my spine
16:40	seangrove	Are stings mutable in ruby?
16:40	technomancy	that's one thing JS got right, probably by accident
16:40	bbloom	seangrove: yes, keywords are not
16:40	technomancy	*undoubtedly by accident
16:40	bbloom	heh
16:40	seangrove	Jesus
16:40	bodie_	does anyone know whether Typed Clojure (i.e. Core.Typed) is a good thing?
16:41	ToxicFrog	I've used it with some success, although I want different names for some of its API functions because I think they look ugly.
16:41	ToxicFrog	I've never used it on anything really large, though.
16:43	seangrove	Wow http://stackoverflow.com/a/14779648
16:44	rasmusto	~sugar
16:44	clojurebot	Huh?
16:44	amalloy	tpope, Bronsa: before the (.-foo x) syntax was introduced, on the jvm (. x foo) used to default to the field, and you could use (. x (foo)) to get the method instead. i didn't realize that had changed, but either way it's an interesting historical note
16:45	bbloom	it's an interesting case study on the complexities of host-agnostic host-interop :-P:
16:46	tpope	yeah my (apparently incomplete) understanding of that informed my decision to make (. x (foo)) the method invocation interface
16:47	bbloom	i didn't even realize vim had a concept of methods...
16:48	tpope	it supports a primitive form of prototype based inheritance, but the core language doesn't really use it
16:48	tpope	hence why I didn't have a problem hiding it behind that ugly ass syntax
16:49	ordnungswidrig	technomancy: are you still happy with your portable keyboard (I just built my ergodox)
16:49	hiredman	needs an april fools project to embed v8 in vim and switch to javascript for vim scripting
16:49	ordnungswidrig	hiredman: I hope you mean clojurescript g
16:49	hiredman	commit message "fixing vim's prototype based inheritence"
16:50	brehaut	when vim and emacs finally converge where will all the unspent nerd rage go?
16:50	technomancy	ordnungswidrig: yeah, I just made a few changes to the layout that have made it quite a bit nicer. I still prefer the ergodox for when I'm at home though.
16:50	tpope	hiredman: actually if that neovim project has its way you'll be able to target luajit
16:50	ordnungswidrig	technomancy: because of the split form factor?
16:51	justin_smith	brehaut: slashdot comment threads?
16:51	brehaut	wait wait wait, slashdot is still a thing?
16:51	ordnungswidrig	brehaut: bashing atom / sublime / ?
16:51	technomancy	ordnungswidrig: that and also because of less reliance on the fn layer
16:51	technomancy	(more the latter)
16:52	technomancy	ordnungswidrig: 42 is just a really small number of keys =)
16:52	hiredman	tpope: should have gone crazier and went with an embeddable common lisp
16:52	ordnungswidrig	well, thank god you do no APL programming
16:52	technomancy	ordnungswidrig: it's actually great for forth! so little punctuation.
16:52	ordnungswidrig	g
16:53	technomancy	parens on the home row is pretty great too though
16:55	ordnungswidrig	yes, I used the third layer of the neo keyboard layout for a while. has layer 3 on caps/# (which is qwerty '/") with parens, brackets and so on paired on the home row.
16:55	ordnungswidrig	and a fourth layer for nav keys.
16:56	jgmize	/buffer codesy
16:56	technomancy	ordnungswidrig: using it as an external board attached to my laptop means I haven't bothered yet with f-keys or arrows; I just hit those on the internal board
16:56	technomancy	but it's nice to have the option
16:56	ordnungswidrig	well, never thought about that option.
16:57	ordnungswidrig	there's still ctrl-f/b/p/n
16:57	technomancy	yeah, it's not like I use the arrows in regular usage anyway
16:58	technomancy	I actually physically removed the tab keycap from my ergodox in order to train myself to use C-i instead
16:58	ordnungswidrig	rip them out! and ESC as well! I remember using CTRL-3 because the terminal had no escape key!
16:58	ordnungswidrig	physically? you mean in the firmware or the keycap?
16:59	technomancy	yeah, the actual plastic keycap
16:59	ordnungswidrig	replace it with nail :-)
16:59	technomancy	hardcore
16:59	Bronsa	amalloy: oh didn't know that. the change makes sense though.
16:59	ordnungswidrig	CTRL-I is actually easy to remeber: I is for indent!
16:59	amalloy	or just set it to launch an app you despise
17:00	Bronsa	what to me doesn't make any sense at all is ##(java.lang.Integer/MAX_VALUE)
17:00	lazybot	⇒ 2147483647
17:00	ordnungswidrig	amalloy: yes, launch VI and remove the escape key first.
17:00	amalloy	Bronsa: meh. statics are known at compile time to be either methods or fields. i agree it's silly that it's allowed, but it's not really hurting anyone
17:01	rasmusto	C-[, c'mon
17:01	stuartsierra	Bronsa: It's a historical artifact. (Integer/MAX_VALUE) worked before Integer/MAX_VALUE did.
17:01	ordnungswidrig	rasmusto: rather difficult on german keyboards.
17:02	bbloom	amalloy: it hurt me, when i was implementing an interpreter
17:02	bbloom	amalloy: i was like "wtf?"
17:03	bbloom	it hurt my brain
17:03	Bronsa	amalloy: java allows for static fields and static no-arg methods to have the same name, I'm not sure there's a way to disambiguate in that case
17:03	rasmusto	Strg-Shft-8 :s
17:03	amalloy	you have a very resilient brain, bbloom. i'm sure you'll be fine
17:03	ordnungswidrig	rasmusto: no way on osx
17:03	amalloy	Bronsa: i would be unsurprised to find that Foo/BAR mapped to the field, and (Foo/Bar) the method
17:04	bbloom	amalloy: i'm confused by that comment, i'm not sure if my brain will ever recover from the cognitive dissonance you have caused me
17:04	rasmusto	ordnungswidrig: in ordnung
17:04	ordnungswidrig	rasmusto: verboten!
17:04	ordnungswidrig	g
17:06	ordnungswidrig	what was actually the reason there is no project yet to port emacs (the good parts) to clojure?
17:06	technomancy	ordnungswidrig: you mean deuce?
17:06	ordnungswidrig	deuce?
17:06	technomancy	https://github.com/hraberg/deuce
17:07	technomancy	he's actually going for source-compatibility tohugh
17:07	ordnungswidrig	hmm
17:07	technomancy	so not sure if that counts as "the good parts"
17:07	ordnungswidrig	that's the part I would give up. as long there's still org-mode
17:07	Bronsa	amalloy: I just tested -- you're right.
17:08	ordnungswidrig	technomancy: he's exploring browser-first-js no legacy :)
17:08	technomancy	I'd be surprised if he gets org working
17:08	ordnungswidrig	g
17:08	technomancy	org is probably the craziest piece of elisp in existence
17:09	technomancy	iirc it's the largest .el file in emacs by an order of magnitude
17:09	ordnungswidrig	surprisingly it's not yet collapsed under all that features
17:09	ambrosebs	tpope: what does this mean? https://gist.github.com/frenchy64/9923233
17:09	ambrosebs	& seems to work with other functions
17:09	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: seems in this context
17:10	Bronsa	stuartsierra: I didn't know that
17:10	amalloy	Bronsa: the .-field syntax didn't add any capabilities to clojure or clojurescript that weren't already possible with the old syntax, it just made it easier to do things that were already possible, by changing the default of (.foo bar) to be what you "usually" mean, and adding (.-foo bar) to get back the less common meaning
17:11	tpope	ambrosebs: check (qf) to see where the error originated
17:11	tpope	I can look closer in a few
17:11	ambrosebs	holy crap! :)
17:11	ambrosebs	this is awesome
17:12	bbloom	where else but #clojure could you have a type-system guy evaluating stuff in a lisp interpreter written in vimL?
17:12	stuartsierra	Org-mode version 8 is massively refactored into ~100 files.
17:12	bbloom	nowhere. that's where.
17:13	ambrosebs	I want to write my vim plugins in clojure! :)
17:13	stuartsierra	amalloy, Bronsa: actually, it did. (.foo bar) couldn't distinguish between a field lookup and a method call in ClojureScript.
17:14	stuartsierra	In Java there's no ambiguity because a public field and a public method can't have the same name.
17:14	amalloy	stuartsierra: that second part isn't true
17:15	amalloy	stuartsierra: as for the first: you could have made it act like "that's always a field", by expanding it to (. bar foo), and writing (. bar (foo)) when you want it to be a method
17:15	Bronsa	stuartsierra: http://sprunge.us/HGAV?clj
17:15	Bronsa	amalloy: I guess nobody wants to use the . op directly
17:15	bbloom	Bronsa: the brevity of that compared to the corresponding java is amusing
17:16	amalloy	Bronsa: right, and so the .- syntax was introduced to make it more convenient. but it wasn't a necessary addition; the existing notation in java was sufficient, except that it made you write annoying crap to be specific
17:16	stuartsierra	OK. I recall something, like in Clojure (JVM) the (. bar foo) form would always be interpreted as a zero-argument method call.
17:17	tpope	ambrosebs: error is wrong but looks like the problem is you're trying to recur to a different arity. that doesn't work in clojure either afaik
17:17	ambrosebs	tpope: the recur is correct, plus I copied it from clojure.core
17:18	tpope	yeah just figured that out
17:18	ambrosebs	tpope: the rest argument is 1 extra argument to recur
17:18	tpope	so apparently it's just timl that doesn't support that
17:18	stuartsierra	Yes, Bronsa, in your example, (. (x. 0) f) returns 1
17:19	stuartsierra	I think early ClojureScript maybe reverted to an older definition of `.` which used parens to distinguish between fields and methods.
17:19	amalloy	i was under the impression that, before the .- change, Bronsa's first snippet would have returned 0 on clojure-jvm, but i just tried it and apparently that's not true
17:20	Bronsa	oh well, that (. (x. 0) f) returns 1 surprisese me
17:20	Bronsa	surprises*
17:20	stuartsierra	Yes, THAT was added as a "convenience" before (.method object) existed!
17:20	amalloy	Bronsa: (.f (x. 0)) just macroexpands to the former
17:20	amalloy	so if one surprises you they both should :P
17:20	Rosnec	hey
17:21	stuartsierra	Lesson learned: syntax is evil. Write all your programs in pure untyped lambda calculus.
17:21	Bronsa	amalloy: right, it just feels wrong
17:21	amalloy	clojurebot: syntax is evil: write all your programs in pure untyped lambda calculus.
17:21	clojurebot	Roger.
17:21	tpope	ambrosebs: fixed the literal error but didn't check that it works as expected
17:21	stuartsierra	:)
17:21	ambrosebs	will check
17:21	tpope	actually unlikely that I did
17:22	Rosnec	is there something like future which ensures things are done in-order?
17:22	justin_smith	Rosnec: maybe an agent?
17:22	Rosnec	I want to do some output to a file, but I want it done in the background
17:23	Rosnec	justin_smith: agents preserve order?
17:23	amalloy	Rosnec: send N actions to a single agent; it queues them up and executes them one at a time
17:24	Rosnec	amalloy: I see
17:24	justin_smith	Rosnec: yeah, I am double checking, but it should execute first come first evaluated
17:24	Bronsa	while we're at it, (.someNonExistentMethod ^SomeClass (foo)) doesn't fail but simply produces a reflection warning, does anybody know why that would be desiderable behaviour?
17:24	amalloy	Bronsa: that typehint almost certainly gets discarded during macroexpansion
17:25	Bronsa	(I just fixed a typo in raynes/fs two days ago .toUrl => .toURL that would have been avoided if this wasn't true)
17:25	Bronsa	amalloy: no it doesn't
17:25	Bronsa	amalloy: (fn [^String x] (.foo x)) compiles fine
17:25	amalloy	no, i guess you're right
17:26	amalloy	seeing a typehint on a list made me think of http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-865 immediately, but that's not the problem here
17:27	Bronsa	amalloy: yeah sorry, was assuming (foo) to be a function call
17:27	amalloy	Bronsa: well, you can imagine it being useful for non-final classes: (fn [^IFoo x] (.foo x) (.bar x)) ;; x needs to implement two interfaces
17:27	amalloy	obviously it's better to typehint x in both places; i'm just saying you can imagine wanting to call methods that aren't in the interface you've tagged as
17:28	chare	so in using clojure for web stuff how am i suppose to deal with csrf
17:29	brunov	chare: https://github.com/weavejester/ring-anti-forgery
17:29	ambrosebs	tpope: should this call the disj method? (. #{1 2} (disj 1))
17:29	Bronsa	amalloy: that makes some sense, thanks
17:30	tpope	ambrosebs: yeah but timl doesn't provide a disj method, just a function
17:30	Bronsa	ambrosebs: I don't know if it's more funny that timl exists or that you're seriously trying it out
17:30	amalloy	ambrosebs: disj isn't a method (on the jvm, anyway) - maybe you mean disjoin?
17:30	chare	brunov so why doesn't this web development with clojure book mention that?
17:30	ambrosebs	Bronsa: at 5.30am
17:31	Bronsa	ambrosebs: that might explain it
17:31	ambrosebs	tpope: how do I call it from timl?
17:31	brunov	chare: because the author was scarred by a bad romantic relationship with a girl named CSRF
17:32	ambrosebs	Bronsa: it's pretty amazing
17:33	tpope	ambrosebs: err uh you pull again first
17:34	chare	brunov you saying the book sucks?
17:34	brunov	chare: no
17:34	ambrosebs	nice
17:35	ambrosebs	tpope: before I port it, clojure.set isn't hardcoded somewhere right?
17:35	ambrosebs	:)
17:35	tpope	ambrosebs: nope, have at it
17:36	tpope	I've implemented most of the core collection interfaces but that's about it
17:36	Foxboron	tpope: love the readme, love timl. Awesome work!
17:36	tpope	:)
17:40	ambrosebs	well that was easy. seems to just work :O
17:41	tpope	what, all of clojure.set?
17:41	ambrosebs	yes
17:41	tpope	holy shit
17:41	ambrosebs	defined about 4 clojure.core functions
17:43	ambrosebs	https://gist.github.com/frenchy64/9923722
17:44	ambrosebs	actually that's half of clojure.set
17:44	ambrosebs	try my luck..
17:45	bbloom	i expect to see benchmarks.
17:45	bbloom	if it's not faster than C, TimL will never take off
17:46	ambrosebs	well the rest compile, update the gist
17:46	tpope	I didn't even know about max-key
17:47	bbloom	it's funny how much stuff is "hiding" in core
17:47	brehaut	bbloom: it doesnt have to be faster than C, just elisp
17:47	tpope	also your select-keys calls clojure.lang.RT, that won't work
17:47	tpope	although I think just a plain find will
17:47	bbloom	i've contributed to cljs, the compiler proper, clojure.core itself. studied the various tools analyzers/emitters, etc. implemetned an interpreter... and STILL i find new shit in core regularly
17:47	ambrosebs	ah cool. Looking for unit tests..
17:47	amalloy	bbloom: ##(doc when-first)
17:47	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([bindings & body]); bindings => x xs Same as (when (seq xs) (let [x (first xs)] body))"
17:48	amalloy	more shit nobody knew was in core
17:48	bbloom	amalloy: yup, you told me about that one like last week. blew my mind
17:48	amalloy	yeah, i couldn't remember if you were in that discussion, but i figured the channel would like to hear about it anyway
17:48	ambrosebs	when-first!
17:50	TravisD	Is there a more idiomatic way to map over a map than this? (defn map-map [m f] (into {} (for [[k,v] m] [k (f v)]))?
17:51	amalloy	the weird thing is you can't actually use when-first efficiently, because it makes you call seq again anyway, in order to get the rest/next
17:51	bbloom	amalloy: you know, now that you say that, i feel like i discovered when-first long ago and then wrote it off for that reason
17:51	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
17:52	bbloom	:-( stupid clojurebot
17:52	amalloy	and in fact the only place in clojure.core where when-first is used is in the expansion of (for)
17:52	Foxboron	best response
17:52	rasmusto	,(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [k (inc v)]) {:a 1 :b 2}))
17:52	clojurebot	{:b 3, :a 2}
17:52	rasmusto	TravisD: ^ ?
17:52	amalloy	rasmusto: isn't that exactly what he showed, and asked if there's something better?
17:53	rasmusto	not quite, he has a list comp
17:53	amalloy	oh
17:53	amalloy	his is better
17:53	Foxboron	I was wondering, currently trying to write an AI for a competition, and its the first time trying Clojure for this. Anybody know for any path-finding algorithms examples in Clojure? Found a few A* algos from a few years back.
17:53	rasmusto	oh :)
17:53	TravisD	amalloy: Ah, what makes it better?
17:54	brainkim	Foxboron: Which competition?
17:54	amalloy	TravisD: my style preference is to usually use for, using map mostly if i'm using a named function; if i have to create a lambda for map, for usually reads better
17:55	Foxboron	brainkim: Norwegian one for a LAN party in 2 weeks time. Bomberman.
17:55	rasmusto	amalloy: is there a performance difference?
17:55	TravisD	yeah, that makes sense. I wasn't sure if there was a non-stylistic reason to prefer one over the other
17:56	brainkim	Foxboron: Sounds cool, I've had similar luck re finding A* implementations, shouldn't be too hard to implement yourself though right?
17:56	amalloy	rasmusto: i doubt if; if there is one you wouldn't notice it. (for [x xs] (f x)) macroexpands into something very close to the definition of map
17:56	rasmusto	amalloy: ok, thanks.
17:57	Foxboron	brainkim: well, new paradigm, new challenges, and i don't really know the algorithms to well to make some completely from scratch. Let alone Clojure itself
17:57	Randy__	Hey guys, I'm a student and I was wondering if there is a more efficient way to implement something like membero from core.logic? I'm trying to code a sudoku relation for a valid board
17:59	hiredman	win 15
18:00	gtrak	anyone played with session yet? wondering how long it might take to ramp up from nothing and embed something like a log viewer component.
18:01	gtrak	is it worth trying if I've only got a couple days, basically? :-)
18:01	devn	tpope: holy shit dude. nicely done.
18:01	gfredericks	technomancy: system-slash-exit works pretty well I think
18:01	gtrak	tpope: wanted to ask you, does vim's bencode support handle nested data?
18:01	gfredericks	technomancy: oh whoops that was in reply to a really old thing
18:02	gtrak	tpope: I might want to transmit the arglists as data instead of strings, for example.
18:02	gtrak	I'm going to be reworking some of that shortly.
18:03	tpope	gtrak: it should handle all valid bencode data
18:03	gfredericks	implementing a clojure is the new implementing a lisp
18:03	tpope	the parser is recursive, if that's what you're asking
18:03	Rosnec	is there a complete list of options for clojure.java.io/IOFactory?
18:03	gtrak	tpope: turns out the elisp impl was broken for some non-trivial cases :-). just asking if that scenario's too much trouble for vim, if I should try to keep the data flat more than I am.
18:04	ambrosebs	tpope: incredible, implement meta for HashMap and HashSet and I'm pretty sure you're done https://gist.github.com/frenchy64/9923722
18:04	devn	ambrosebs: now hurry up and get to work on typed.timl ;)
18:05	ambrosebs	devn: :)
18:05	rasmusto	this is the best apr1 ever
18:06	tpope	yeah meta for those was super annoying just cuz it has to survive passing through the reader
18:08	devn	i wonder if something like core.async would be possible on top of timl
18:08	devn	tpope: any thought on that?
18:08	bbloom	devn: https://github.com/tpope/vim-dispatch
18:09	devn	bahaha
18:09	bbloom	devn: asynchronous fun times :-/
18:09	tpope	I haven't dug into core.async enough to know
18:09	tpope	presumably since it works with single threaded javascript, we could do it too
18:09	devn	that's what i was thinking
18:11	devn	core.async uses a fit bit of deftype/defprotocol on the cljs side
18:12	tpope	a fitbit?
18:13	devn	s/fit/fair
18:13	devn	but presumably that could be done with your version of defmethod?
18:14	devn	either way, tpope: well done man. I knew you were toying around with a lisp in VimL post-clojure/conj and gherkin, but i didn't expect to see a full macro system, persistent colls, lazy seqs, etc.
18:14	devn	so cool
18:14	tpope	yeah I'm of the opinion that defprotocol may be a great optimization for the jvm but it buys you verrrry little over duck typing, if namespaced properly
18:15	tpope	imagine every protocol was one method. if you've ready clojurescript's source that's not much of a stretch
18:16	jeremyheiler	tpope: i've actually been thinking about that myself, protocols are jsut single methods.
18:16	bbloom	tpope: yeah, defprotocol is a bit of a perf hack, but it helps cljs too
18:16	bbloom	there are use cases for having a single thing that represents a collection of generic methods, but defprotocol doesn't capitalize on them
18:16	bbloom	eg delegation
18:17	jeremyheiler	yeah
18:17	tpope	yeah I guess I could see that
18:17	bbloom	http://docs.factorcode.org/content/article-delegate.html
18:17	jeremyheiler	im not sure how much taht matters in clojure, though. protocls by definition can depend on other protocols, etc.
18:17	tpope	the only other argument for grouping methods together like that is requiring you to implement all of them. but clojure doesn't require you to implement all of them
18:18	bbloom	another thing is "tagging" of types
18:18	bbloom	ie marker protocols
18:18	bbloom	for use with satisfies?, even if you have no methods
18:19	tpope	I found that tagging with a single method satisfied that a loooot more than I expected
18:19	kovasb	gtrak: hopefully not too hard
18:19	kovasb	gtrak: are you familiar with om?
18:19	tpope	looking for a set? check for disj. looking for a map? check for dissoc
18:20	gtrak	kovasb: I've been trying to learn om, but haven't gotten off the ground yet, I think I finally understand cursors though.
18:20	kovasb	gtrak: definitely recommend working through the tutorial
18:21	gtrak	kovasb: session looks great though, I want to try to extend/embed it in general.
18:21	kovasb	gtrak: its also possible to skip defining your own component, and just use the builtins to do the layout
18:21	kovasb	gtrak: awesome. feel free to post on the mailing list if u have detailed questions
18:21	gtrak	sweet, thanks!
18:22	Rosnec	is there a way to open a file for writing in append mode, but delete whatever was originally in the file?
18:22	gtrak	Rosnec: delete the file first? then re-open it?
18:23	Rosnec	gtrak: that's what I figured
18:23	Rosnec	that assumes nothing else creates and writes to the file in the meantime
18:23	Rosnec	although I'm not really worried about that
18:24	gtrak	does the OS even prevent that? I thought it was just windows.
18:24	Rosnec	isn't there a lock on the file when you're writing to it?
18:25	technomancy	isn't deleting the current contents basically the same as writing in not-append mode?
18:26	amalloy	yeah, exactly, what technomancy said
18:27	ivan	append mode changes seek behavior as well
18:28	ivan	writes automatically seek to the end first
18:29	doky	hello is it possible to handle multiple login sessions on one computer ?
18:30	ivan	doky: is that a Clojure question?
18:31	doky	sure, im using compojure and ring.middleware
18:31	amalloy	i like the idea that it's impossible, that facebook and google have one server per user
18:32	doky	ivan: sure, im using compojure and ring.middleware, and when i login with one user and then with the other .. there is only one session
18:33	doky	amalloy: i only want to know how it works and why in session i have only one user if on one pc i login with 2 accounts
18:33	gtrak	doky: try two browsers?
18:33	doky	no only one
18:33	justin_smith	doky: the session should be bound per request to that user's session
18:34	gtrak	a cookie would be shared across each tab in a single browser.
18:34	justin_smith	so each request should only see that user's session
18:34	bodie_	let's say I want something to be somewhat precisely timed (down to say 16ms precision) -- is there any way to achieve this? perhaps via threading jobs out and killing ones that aren't finished within the time window?
18:34	gtrak	bodie_: yup
18:34	gtrak	https://github.com/gtrak/quilltest/blob/master/src/quilltest/core.clj#L11
18:34	gtrak	bodie_: scheduleAtFixedRate will give you a reliable tick
18:34	justin_smith	bodie_: also consider traversing flat collections of unboxed data if latencies must be precise
18:35	doky	yes i have there there set timeintervals
18:35	bodie_	awesome
18:35	justin_smith	(less garbage created, better cache performance, etc.)
18:35	bodie_	yeah
18:35	gtrak	bodie_: got it from this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5274619/investigation-of-optimal-sleep-time-calculation-in-game-loop
18:35	bodie_	:D
18:35	bodie_	you guys rule!
18:35	cbp	doesnt youtube basically have to do that because of python anyway? One server per request :-P
18:36	justin_smith	cbp: you can use a front like nginx and a group of python processes in a pool
18:36	bodie_	( justin_smith, as opposed to normal collections which are linked lists, right?)
18:37	justin_smith	bodie_: not neccissarily - like a vector is not a linked list, but it is not cache friendly because each item is just a pointer to the jvm heap
18:37	justin_smith	that's what I mean by flat / unboxed
18:37	justin_smith	this is important for things like audio where small timing errors turn into erroneous signals, for things like video your timings will be more forgiving and you may not need to optimize the architecture that much
18:39	guns	ambrosebs: I see you are trying TimL; does the K lookup command work for you?
18:39	bodie_	yeah, i took this train of thought because i've been playing around with emacs live a tiny bit
18:39	bodie_	i.e. overtone and quil
18:40	ambrosebs	guns: I don't think there are docstrings
18:40	justin_smith	yeah, overtone solves it by farming it all out to another program entirely
18:40	bodie_	heh
18:40	justin_smith	(scsynth is standalone)
18:40	guns	ambrosebs: But do you get an error or just nothing?
18:40	justin_smith	java doesn't even touch audio data anywhere in overtone
18:40	guns	ambrosebs: cp{motion} works for instance
18:40	bodie_	right, it's more like an interface wrapper
18:40	justin_smith	and of course in scsynth all the audio signals are flat unboxed arrays
18:40	ambrosebs	I get invalid express, blah cursor_keyword()
18:41	bodie_	hm
18:41	guns	ambrosebs: thanks
18:41	justin_smith	bodie_: even better, it is a network protocol client
18:41	justin_smith	scsynth is controlled over UDP using the OSC protocol
18:41	ambrosebs	the rest of the fireplace bindings seem to work better than in fireplace
18:41	bodie_	:)
18:41	guns	I updated vim-sexp for timl (a tweak) and it works great
18:41	ambrosebs	well, they're good
18:41	justin_smith	you could do the same thing overtone does with bash+curl
18:42	bodie_	just realized I just followed you on twitter :P
18:42	bodie_	that's neat
18:42	justin_smith	probably a different justin smith
18:42	justin_smith	there are thousands of us, literally
18:43	bodie_	only a few bodies, haha. I'm probably getting the names mixed up anyhow
18:43	bodie_	anyway, thanks much for the pointers
18:43	justin_smith	np
18:43	seangrove	In fact, justin_smith isn't Just Smith, it's just one of the most anonymous names he could pick
18:43	ambrosebs	guns: I like how functions get highlighted in green as soon as you eval them
18:43	bodie_	one thing I think is way cool about this community is that most of you actually seem to know what you're doing
18:43	guns	ambrosebs: that actually breaks rainbow_parentheses
18:44	guns	ambrosebs: And vim-clojure-highlight will do the same at least if you reload the file
18:44	ambrosebs	hmm rainbow_parentheses seems fine, what breaks?
18:45	guns	Doesn't the eval re-define the paren syntax statements?
18:47	ambrosebs	guns: I don't think so
18:47	ambrosebs	guns: I use cp% to eval
18:48	guns	ambrosebs: Must be local to me
18:50	doky	so i will try do describe my problem more detailed: i run rest api, now i gettig info about user - if is logged by asking /current-user when i am logged in one tab it works, but when i login with other user in other tab, the /current-user returns last logged user ... haw can i handle this ?
18:51	justin_smith	doky: I think the cookies are not per tab but per site/browser
18:51	doky	if nobody is logged it returns {}
18:51	justin_smith	try using a second browser or second browser profile
18:52	doky	justin_smith: and is there any other way ?
18:52	justin_smith	not that I know of, browsers are expected to share cookies across tabs
18:52	doky	ok, thank you :)
18:52	justin_smith	unless you wanna pull some janky magic like google does to allow multiple simultaneous gmail logins
18:53	hiredman	doing a disservice to magicians everywhere
18:53	bodie_	but not janky magicians
18:53	doky	that is what i was asking for first ...
18:53	amalloy	hiredman: i dunno, isn't he implicitly suggesting that most magic isn't janky?
18:54	doky	justin_smith: thanks
18:54	justin_smith	np
18:54	hiredman	amalloy: he is still associating magic with google's ridiculous multi account stuff
18:55	amalloy	i dunno, i like the multi-account stuff
18:55	amalloy	or maybe i like something else but believe it to be the multi-account stuff
18:55	justin_smith	I was only intending to suggest it was failure prone (in my experience) and definitely not simple to implement
18:56	lemonodor	google’s approach is ugly but i’m not sure if there’s really a better way at the moment. i’m up to like /u/4 now.
18:57	lemonodor	(well, the other way is to have a browser per account)
18:57	justin_smith	profiles are underutilized (and definitely not as easy as they should be)
19:00	bjeanes	tpope: holy cripe man ... (re: timl)
19:11	Frozenlock	"Please take a moment to tell us what you think about this guide on Twitter." There's probably something wrong with email that I've yet to understand.
19:12	Frozenlock	(considering I don't have Facebook/Twitter/whatever account, I find this annoying.)
19:12	michaniskin1	social media: it's a thing
19:12	coventry	The problem is that your friends don't get to see your communication with the marketers if you use email.
19:14	cbp	It could be interpreted as "this 140 character guide"
19:20	rasmusto	tpope: :TLscratch is amazing
19:25	tpope	forgot about that. I had been entertaining it as a potential addition to fireplace
19:26	rasmusto	tpope: I wasn't able to get my own foo.tim file to eval and connect to a repl, so I found this
19:27	rasmusto	tpope: it has something to do with my namespace name and directory hierarchy as far as I can tell
19:27	tpope	you should be able to :source % in it regardless
19:28	tpope	but you need the right directory hierarchy to (require) it
19:28	rasmusto	im getting an error, let me paste it, sec
19:30	ambrosebs	tpope: +1 for fireplace
19:31	technomancy	addition to fireplace?
19:31	technomancy	you mean you're not just porting fireplace to it?
19:31	technomancy	=D
19:31	tpope	that was my plan!
19:32	tpope	but I don't know, I'm increasingly skeptical of timl
19:32	bbloom	tpope: you mean you haven't already started porting ALL of your existing plugins?
19:32	tpope	which is why I salvaged it into a big old april fools' joke
19:32	technomancy	tpope: sounds vaguely remniscient of mirah
19:32	tpope	I remember mirah
19:33	technomancy	started out as "this is a cool runtime; I wish there were better languages I could use in it to work on my primary projects"
19:33	technomancy	but I don't think that actually panned out
19:33	kencausey	I'm trying to use https://github.com/boechat107/cloxls but it has lots of reflection warnings. To what extent is this a problem beyond the noise level and what is the right way to fix it?
19:33	rasmusto	tpope: https://gist.github.com/rasmusto/9925149 error when trying to :TLsource a simple file
19:33	tpope	there's a lot of interop friction in the dumbest places I didn't even think about
19:34	hiredman	kencausey: depends, do you care if it is using reflection?
19:34	kencausey	hiredman: uhm, I don't know enough to know whether or not I should care.
19:34	tpope	e.g. I made 0 true (because duh) but 0 is the canonical false value in viml
19:34	hiredman	kencausey: then you don't :)
19:35	kencausey	I'm confused that boechat has explicitly enabled warn-on-reflection and yet has not addressed the warnings.
19:35	tpope	rasmusto: ew, not sure what that is but it doesn't look like a path issue
19:35	technomancy	tpope: do you have true/false as symbols or something?
19:35	hiredman	kencausey: that seems odd
19:35	hiredman	kencausey: I just wouldn't use the library
19:35	rasmusto	tpope: maybe cwd should be at the project root?
19:35	kencausey	Maybe the project is delayed in an in between state
19:35	tpope	viml doesn't. I made true/false singletons for timl
19:36	kencausey	There seems to be no other choice other than to use poi directly myself
19:36	kencausey	I expected I was going to have to expand cloxls anyway as it is far from complete
19:36	tpope	rasmusto: nah I tried with /tmp/test.tim and it worked fine for me
19:36	hiredman	kencausey: it seems unlikely to add much value plus it does add the uncertainty
19:36	hiredman	so skip it
19:36	kencausey	So I guess what I'm really wondering, should I just disable warn-on-reflection?
19:37	hiredman	kencausey: it isn't even the top hit if you google clojure excel
19:37	kencausey	I guess I have a little hesitancy when it comes to java interop.
19:37	tpope	rasmusto: I suspect some sort of weird load issue. chunked-seq? is looking for chunk-first and can't find it
19:38	kencausey	OK, then I guess my mistake then is relying on the data in clojars
19:38	hiredman	kencausey: have you looked at clj-excel?
19:38	kencausey	Not until now
19:39	hiredman	I dunno, I never use the clojars website for anything, but others must, I guess
19:39	kencausey	I guess I stopped with I found a result for xls
19:39	kencausey	s/with/when/
19:39	kencausey	Thanks
19:39	kencausey	I was surprised to get a result and pretty much assumed that it was all I was going to find, with no good reason.
19:39	rasmusto	tpope: hm, works if I vim the file from ~ as dir/ras/test.tim, but not if I'm in ~/dir and load ras/test.tim
19:40	hiredman	the idea that clojars search is going to be better than googles is kind of laughable :) on the other hand just because google finds a library that doesn't mean it is going to be in a maven repo, but it generally is
19:41	rasmusto	tpope: ah, same thing happens if I `cd tmp` and `vim test.tim`
19:41	xeqi	clojars search is just lucene search on {name,description,etc} + some weighting based on downloads
19:41	tpope	rasmusto: check :echo has_key(g:timl#core, 'chunk_first') in both contexts
19:41	holo	hi
19:41	kencausey	hiredman: This is is the sort of thing that trips up noobs like myself
19:41	rasmusto	tpope: 0 for the failing case, 1 otherwise
19:42	tpope	my guess is whatever you're doing immediately after starting vim is triggering some botched load
19:42	rasmusto	tpope: k, let me clean up some vimrc stuff
19:42	holo	where can I find some nthrest equivalent for clojurescript?
19:42	amalloy	&(doc drop)
19:42	lazybot	⇒ "([n coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of all but the first n items in coll."
19:43	tpope	I had tons of different circular dependency issues when developing timl
19:43	tpope	I think they're ironed out, but I'm guessing you found another
19:45	holo	amalloy, okay, I guess I can use that one instead :)
19:45	holo	(inc amalloy)
19:45	lazybot	⇒ 93
19:45	amalloy	i've never used nthrest in my life. nthnext is occasionally useful, but most of the time drop is fine
19:47	cbp	I had no idea those 2 functions existe
19:48	tpope	other than argument order is there a substantial difference between nthnext and drop?
19:50	holo	tpope, drop is lazy, nthrest isn't. also it appears the latter is not available in cljs, whereas drop is
19:51	tpope	oh duh thanks
19:51	amalloy	tpope: drop returns a lazy seq, nthnext is eager and returns nil instead of (). i dunno about nthrest, but i assume it's a version of nthrest that for some crazy reason returns ()
19:51	amalloy	er, of nthnext
19:51	tpope	ya exactly, that adds up with your dismissal of nthrest
19:51	amalloy	&(doc nthrest)
19:51	lazybot	⇒ "([coll n]); Returns the nth rest of coll, coll when n is 0."
19:52	tpope	oh I looked at the source, the lazy-seq just didn't register
19:54	holo	amalloy, did you mean: *i dunno about drop, but..
19:55	amalloy	holo: no, i know all about drop. i don't know about nthrest because i've never used it
19:56	amalloy	then i said what i assume it must do (i was right), and said i can't imagine why you'd want it
19:57	amalloy	in clojure.core, nthrest is used in partition and partition-all, and nowhere else
19:57	holo	,(drop 0 nil)
19:57	clojurebot	()
19:57	holo	,(nthrest nil 0)
19:57	clojurebot	nil
19:57	bbloom	,(drop 0 [])
19:57	clojurebot	()
19:57	rasmusto	tpope: disabling my other bundles fixed this, I'll pinpoint which one breaks things at some point
19:57	rootex	,(rest [])
19:57	clojurebot	()
19:57	rootex	,(next [])
19:57	clojurebot	nil
19:58	tpope	rasmusto: cool let me know. timl could still be to blame
19:58	tpope	it jacks into autoloading
19:59	holo	amalloy, this old code where I use nthrest is an argument for some->>, so I guess I wanted to short circuit on nil
20:04	holo	no, that wasn't the reason. anyway, not a good idea for portable code
20:08	holo	amalloy, oh i get it:
20:08	holo	,(nthrest "bla" 0)
20:08	clojurebot	"bla"
20:09	rasmusto	tpope: I think it's pathogen. I have .vim/bundle/... and .vim/timl/... (identical), and "execute pathogen#infect()" and "execute pathogen#infect('bundle/{}')" fail, while "execute pathogen#infect('timl/{}') succeeds
20:09	holo	,(drop 0 "bla")
20:09	clojurebot	(\b \l \a)
20:09	holo	this was the reason
20:09	amalloy	holo: that only matters for specifically 0. after that, you're seqing
20:09	tpope	rasmusto: oh timl/{} will add all subdirectories of timl, not what you want
20:10	tpope	rasmusto: try pathogen#incubate('timl') for a more accurate comparison
20:10	rasmusto	tpope: sorry, that was a bad choice of directory name, should have been timl-bundle-test-directory
20:10	gozala	cemerick: ping
20:10	rasmusto	timl/timl was a thing.
20:10	holo	amalloy, true :) thanks
20:10	gozala	cemerick: I’m having trouble with async tests was wondering if you could help
20:11	tpope	rasmusto: so is there other stuff in there? sounds to me like you disabled all your other bundles and it works
20:11	tpope	btw as author and #1 user of pathogen it seems like an unlikely culprit by itself
20:12	rasmusto	tpope: both vim/bundle and vim/timl are identical. I reenabled everything and when I infected using timl/{} it all works.
20:12	tpope	rasmusto: oh maybe something is fucked in your cache
20:13	tpope	export TIML_EXPIRE_CACHE=1 while testing all this
20:14	rasmusto	tpope: that did it. Maybe I should have kept the old cache around to pinpoint the bug...
20:15	tpope	uh yeah haha
20:15	tpope	oh well
20:15	rasmusto	where's the cache end up?
20:15	tpope	also maybe absolute/relative path was being cached separately somehow? it shouldn't be...
20:16	tpope	~/.cache/vim/timl
20:16	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
20:16	tpope	yeah I see relative paths in there, fuck me
20:16	tpope	shut up clojurebot
20:18	tpope	oh those are verrrrry old files, dating back to when I first implemented caching
20:18	tpope	keep an eye out for that but nothing conclusive
20:18	rasmusto	tpope: ok, will do
20:19	rasmusto	oo, these are compiled .tim files
20:19	tpope	yup
20:19	gozala	cemerick: anyway if you’ll have a chance to to look at it, this is an issue I’m having https://github.com/cemerick/clojurescript.test/issues/56
20:20	rasmusto	next up: VimL minifier
20:20	rasmusto	tpope: anyways, thanks for the help. This is a damn cool project
20:49	jeregrine	so whats everyone using for html templating?
20:50	milinda	hi all, is it possible to reify abstract class
20:52	amalloy	no
20:52	mpblair	no
20:52	milinda	amalloy: is proxy the solution for my problem?
20:53	amalloy	i couldn't possibly say. so far all i know of your problem is that you thought reifying an abstract class might be a solution
20:56	milinda	looks like proxy may be the only solution for the current mechanism I used. I need to rethink my solution in the next iteration.
20:58	seangrove	xeqi: The weighting based on downloads is pretty cool
21:00	arrdem	seangrove: what are you reading?
21:01	seangrove	arrdem: <xeqi> clojars search is just lucene search on {name,description,etc} + some weighting based on downloads
21:01	arrdem	at 18:34. ah.
21:23	Frozenlock	michaniskin: Playing around with validateur. Any reason why the validation functions all take a message-fn, by not the `validate-with-predicate'?
21:26	Frozenlock	*but
21:31	rasmusto	(do (prn "foo") (execute "normal cpp")) ; don't know why this cracked me up so much
22:07	bodie_	anyone familiar enough with quil to help me understand what's wrong with this sample code? https://github.com/gtrak/quilltest/blob/master/src/quilltest/core.clj#L11
22:07	bodie_	I think quil.dynamic was removed.
22:10	bodie_	so, everything up to line 32 works. I guess that would be replaced with "setup" now.