#clojure – 2014-03-31

2014-03-31

00:10	chare	amalloy so whats the point of the map in the context of :exists?
00:11	amalloy	who knows? i don't understand the liberator context
00:12	chare	amalloy: so you don't use liberator?
00:12	chare	amalloy you saying that liberator is a substandard clojure web library
00:21	myguidingstar	hi all, how do I access an object in memory when I only know its id? For instance, (str (repeat 3 "Hello ")) => "clojure.lang.LazySeq@e878644d" So how do I get back that lazy sequence, give its unique id?
00:22	tmciver	myguidingstar: you can't. You would have had to capture it in a local or something.
00:23	myguidingstar	tmciver, I'm just curious. I know it's a bit advanced ;> thanks
00:23	tmciver	myguidingstar: that print representation just encodes the type along with some ID that probably is some kind of memory location.
00:26	tmciver	myguidingstar: you can print clojure objects in such a way that they can be read back in again (see print-dup) but that's not what you're talking about there.
00:28	myguidingstar	yeah, I know that. I use str just to show the id
00:29	myguidingstar	I meant how to access that memory location
00:30	tmciver	myguidingstar: ah yes, I didn't read your question carefully enough.
00:32	amalloy	myguidingstar: you can't
00:33	myguidingstar	thanks amalloy tmciver I'm just curious
00:33	amalloy	also, that's not an id, it's the object's hashCode (which, by default, is related to the memory address, but not by any means a 1-to-1 mapping)
00:34	myguidingstar	a ha, that's clear to me now
00:44	vimuser2	Hey there, was curious how do you guys handle passing data to over-ridden methods for a subclass, where you need to pass data to a function but can't call the function directly?
00:45	vimuser2	Adding a getter/setter seems meh, would be interesting to use a channel
00:46	vimuser2	(specifically, i need to pass some data to paintComponent method for jpanel)
00:49	amalloy	i don't understand the question. paintComponent just takes a Graphics object, right? what would it mean to pass something else to that? perhaps you could give a more specific example
00:49	vimuser2	well technically if i read from a channel the value is removed, and it's possible for the panel needing to be repainted without me explicitly saying so… so maybe adding a property to store state to the class makes sense for this scenario unfortnuately <_<
00:50	vimuser2	amalloy: alright, will do. I basically got a bunch of nodes I want to draw with connections. I only really need to draw everything once, until I envoke some function to redraw everything.
00:51	vimuser2	amalloy: So, basically i got a hash map of nodes with connectors, external to my instance created with proxy
00:53	vimuser2	So more or less, when JPanel.paintComponent(g) is called, i would like to somehow draw all these connections. and rather not have some global ref. pointing to the nodes and connections, if that makes sense...
00:56	TravisD	vimuser2: You might want to check out the seesaw library. It exposes a more idiomatic clojure interface to javax.swing
00:57	vimuser2	TravisD: hm, alright. i was trying to more or less do this as a challenge for myself, but maybe I can study the source and get a few hints
01:00	TravisD	vimuser2: Unless you're looking for a java interop challenge, it seems like one library is as good as another. It's still an interesting (and challenging) problem to automatically draw pleasing graphs
01:04	vimuser2	yeah heh. i mean my code to create the nodes and whatnot is functional, but this interop stuff is a bit of a challenge like you said.
01:05	vimuser2	just curious, is there any soft of weird thing where it can hold 2 values (defaults are nil), but when 2 values are set it automatically fires another function?
01:05	vimuser2	seems more or less like a event or something heh
01:09	vimuser2	but yeah, that wouldn't necessarily work for me anyways since the graphic object shouldn't be held on to. anyways thanks for the input, I'm done flooding the channel =)
02:33	luxbock	I installed YourKit profiler and I'm not looking at the results of the Method List that was recorded during CPU profiling
02:34	luxbock	the most time is spent in clojure.lang.RT.seqFrom(Object)
02:34	luxbock	am I correct in interpreting that this means that I could perhaps find spots where I can optimize the code by avoiding my arrays getting turned into seqs?
02:36	luxbock	https://gist.github.com/luxbock/da22767ef16af6ebc5dc
02:36	luxbock	here is the code in question, with the last file being the one I'm profiling for further improvements
02:58	amalloy	luxbock: seqFrom just delegates to other code. you want to look through the stacktraces emanating from seqFrom to see what sequences are taking a long time to build, and/or who's asking for a lot of sequences
03:09	luxbock	what does clojure.core$every_QMARK_ do?
03:22	plaeremans	@andyf_ thanks!
03:32	luxbock	found two ways two tweak the algorithm that gave me a 10x speed improvement, so now I'm only 10x behind the Java version
04:56	aztak	hi all! Here's a newbie question for you all -> Which book on Clojure should I buy? :) I know Scala and FP reasonably well, but I've never really been exposed to LISP before.
05:00	clgv	aztak: often recommended: Clojure Programming
05:04	aztak	clgv: thanks for the pointer. Will look it up!
05:07	aztak	clgv: any thoughts on 'Joy of Clojure'?
05:07	AeroNotix	aztak: I feel it's more in-depth than Clojure Programming
05:07	clgv	aztak: it's great but maybe not suited as first clojure book
05:10	clgv	aztak: my reading path was "Programming Clojure (1st Edition)" -> "Joy of Clojure"
05:11	aztak	thanks guys. Should probably get both of them then.
05:11	aztak	clgv: how does "Programming Clojure" compare to "Clojure Programming"?
05:12	clgv	aztak: "Programmign Clojure" has older roots but is available as second edition already
05:13	clgv	aztak: hard to say without comparing them in detail
06:26	aztak	There. Just ordered 'Programming Clojure, 2nd ed' :)
07:36	oskarth	how do you guys usually rename a leiningen project? (including all the references in files)
07:39	ambrosebs	I avoid namespace prefixes, do the `git mv` commands, then use git status to build up a project-wide search/replace.
07:39	ambrosebs	Worked a treat moving around 70 namespaces in core.typed
07:39	ambrosebs	you might guess I'm not in an IDE ;)
07:40	hyPiRion	oskarth: `find test -name '*.clj' -print0 \| xargs -0 sed -i.bak -e 's/old-ns-prefix/new-ns-prefix/'` in root directory
07:40	hyPiRion	that one should work on both mac and linux
07:41	ambrosebs	also consider if you have dashes in your namespaces, they are converted to underscores in :imports
07:42	ambrosebs	I realise now you were talking about simply renaming the prefixes.
07:43	oskarth	thanks :)
07:44	oskarth	One thing that's missing is the folders, but I can do it at the second stage
07:44	oskarth	as a*
07:45	hyPiRion	oskarth: yeah, that's a bit more involved, but I tend to do that manually
07:45	hyPiRion	It's not like I rename projects every say, so I've not bothered to set up a script for it
07:45	hyPiRion	*day
07:45	hyPiRion	Hrm...
07:46	hyPiRion	Sounds sorta like something you could write a Lein plugin for.
07:46	oskarth	lein rename foo bar would indeed be nice
07:48	noncom	what's the best way to convert java.util.List to a [] ?
07:49	ambrosebs	noncom: a vector?
07:49	noncom	yeah, a list into a vector
07:49	ambrosebs	noncom: try into
07:49	ambrosebs	to just (vector lst)
07:49	ambrosebs	)or
07:49	hyPiRion	I think (vec my-list) should work too
07:50	ambrosebs	yes not vector
07:50	noncom	so (into), (vec) are aware of how to treat java collections?
07:50	gfredericks	yeah
07:50	noncom	cool, thank you
07:50	gfredericks	thanks to the java.util.Collection interface or something
07:50	hyPiRion	noncom: yeah. I think most of the Clojure functions works on seqs, and Collection is seqable
07:51	hyPiRion	,(seq (doto (java.util.ArrayList.) (.add 1) (.add 2) (.add 3)))
07:51	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
07:51	hyPiRion	,(map inc (doto (java.util.ArrayList.) (.add 1) (.add 2) (.add 3)))
07:51	clojurebot	(2 3 4)
07:51	gfredericks	,(apply concat (repeatedly 10000 #(java.util.ArrayList.)))
07:51	clojurebot	()
07:53	noncom	really cool
09:02	doky	hello can anybody help me how to return value from inside of loop like return value ? a try it this way
09:02	doky	(let [xx (vec nil)]
09:02	doky	(doseq [kv @clients]
09:02	doky	(if (= "first" (:room-id (val kv)))
09:02	doky	(conj xx (:user-id (val kv)))))
09:02	doky	(println xx))
09:02	doky	the better would be instead of var xx, return only data like: (into [] (:user-id (val kv)))
09:02	doky	the better would be instead of var xx, return only data like: (into [] (:user-id (val kv)))
09:02	doky	but both returns nil :/
09:04	llasram	doky: (a) better to use a paste service (such as refheap.com) for any code longer than 1 line
09:04	doky	ok sorry for that
09:05	llasram	(b) what your code appears to be attempting to do is build a vector via mutation
09:05	llasram	But the Clojure default datastructures are all immutable
09:06	doky	so here it is: http://pastebin.com/2kxwvzR0
09:06	doky	and so how to get the vector of these items ?
09:07	llasram	Is @clients a map?
09:07	doky	yes
09:07	llasram	something like (map :room-id (vals @clients)) will give you a sequence of the :room-id's
09:08	llasram	But you want... the :user-id where the :room-id is "first"?
09:08	llasram	So you chain operations -- (->> @clients vals (filter #(= "first" (:room-id %))) (map :user-id))
09:08	doky	yes
09:09	doky	thanks i will try it :)
09:10	llasram	But make sure you understand why the way you were trying to do it didn't work
09:10	doky	woow, that's great
09:12	doky	i know that data are immutable but i don't understand why i did't worked if i put it that way:
09:12	doky	(into [] (:user-id (val kv)))
09:12	doky	so it didn't create a new anonymous vector ?
09:17	arr-ee	Hi guys. I have a problem with dynamically creating tests (or named functions, even): I can’t figure how to resolve (?) the symbol for the function name. Here’s the gist: https://gist.github.com/arr-ee/9892004
09:26	llasram	doky: If you have that form inside of the `doseq` you're still doing pretty much the same thing
09:27	doky	ok i see and thanks for help :)
09:28	llasram	arr-ee: Because macros act at macro-expansion time on their literal arguments -- in this case, the literal symbol `tname`
09:30	arr-ee	@llasram: yeah, I was thinking that way, but hoped I was wrong. And that means I won’t be able to do what I wanted to, right?
09:31	llasram	Yes/no. There's always `eval`, but fighting against the language like that suggests you are doing something uncommon and potentially unnecessary
09:32	llasram	What's your ultimate goal here?
09:32	arr-ee	Yeah, eval is a bit too much
09:34	arr-ee	I have a list of maps like {:scope :a, :method :b}, and I want to generate tests for those that basically call a function with that :method value as an argument
09:34	arr-ee	Thing is, different :scope's require different env set-ups, so I wanted to move those to the tests’ metas to be able to use selectors
09:36	arr-ee	and also test names based on those :method values, because there’s a lot of them (about a hundred), so shoving them into one test wasn’t looking great
09:37	llasram	Are all the :scopes known ahead of time?
09:37	arr-ee	however, since I know all :scope values and they are quite limited, I’ll go hardcoded defs + generated assertions way, I guess. Thanks anyway, I’ve learned something new :)
09:37	arr-ee	yeah, they are, and they aren’t changing a lot
09:38	llasram	You could have one `deftest` per `:scope` which runs all the tests for that scope
09:41	arr-ee	yes, I guess I’ll do it that way + easier to do setup/teardown
09:42	llasram	arr-ee: Alternatively -- where does this vector of maps come from? Is it inline in this test code?
09:42	llasram	Actually, doesn't matter
09:42	llasram	You could write a macro which accepts that map as a literal and defines all the necessary `deftest` forms
09:43	llasram	Then either call the macro with the map (if already a literal), or `eval` invoking the macro with the map from elsewhere
09:44	llasram	Because you need the selectors as metadata to work with existing tools, I think this qualifies as a case of actually doing something uncommon :-)
09:44	llasram	s,map as a literal,vector as a literal, etc
09:44	arr-ee	I’m not sure anyone from my team will appreciate that :)
09:45	llasram	Oh?
09:45	arr-ee	deftest per scope should work, I seriously doubt it will change anytime soon anyway.
09:45	llasram	kk
09:45	arr-ee	llasram: thanks!
09:52	antris_	There's a competition where you can code a race car bot using Clojure :) https://helloworldopen.com/
09:52	antris_	They opened the signups today
10:39	bodie_	anyone played with overtone?
10:41	ddellacosta	bodie_: you know, I've been meaning to. I used to spend a lot of time with SuperCollider...
10:43	nathanic	in particular i liked hooking overtone up to things like http://hexler.net/software/touchosc
10:46	greg`	simple made easy where can i download?
10:47	technomancy	greg`: if you're asking for help violating copyright then please get lost
10:47	technomancy	(but if not then don't get lost.)
10:48	bodie_	ddellacosta, neato :) I just got set up with the Emacs Live bundle from Overtone
10:48	bodie_	it's really, really nice so far, if a little bloaty
10:48	benmoss	does anyone know of a way with clojure.data.json to avoid parsing nested JSON
10:48	greg`	sorry i didnt know it was copyright
10:49	greg`	havent been on the clojure community before but thats not a great advert
10:49	greg`	simple made easy is a talk by richard hickey on the infoq website
10:50	bodie_	unwillingness to help you break copyright is a bad advert for a community?
10:50	bodie_	O_o
10:50	greg`	is it copyright?
10:50	ddellacosta	woah let's relax here folks
10:50	bodie_	LET'S FIGHT
10:50	Anderkent	I prefer moveleft to copyright, prevents duplication
10:51	greg`	well if i can stream it , it cant be copyright since it gets copied to my machine first to be played
10:51	ddellacosta	greg`: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy
10:51	greg`	thanks ddellacosta. nice to know there are some nice clojurians
10:52	greg`	wont be back in a hurry
10:52	ddellacosta	greg`: most Clojurians are nice, don't get the wrong idea. And I suspect technomancy was just joking around, 'cause he's quite nice.
10:52	bodie_	i've never heard of moveleft
10:52	technomancy	greg`: sorry, there's a book called "Clojure made easy" that I thought you were talking about
10:53	technomancy	my bad
10:53	greg`	ah ok, well thanks
10:53	bodie_	also.... he did say "if you're not, please don't get lost" =P which I thought was quite nice
10:53	dselph	greg`: ddellacosta: Agreed - technomancy is one of the nicest folks you'd ever meet
10:53	greg`	bodie: ....i guess :-\
10:53	bodie_	the butthz are strong with this one
10:54	greg`	k l8r
10:54	bodie_	that guy was an ass imo
10:54	bodie_	I'm a total newcomer and you guys have always been awesome
10:55	ddellacosta	bodie_: well, it
10:55	ddellacosta	d'oh
10:55	bodie_	dat return key
10:55	Anderkent	the internet: where sometimes some people take the thing you typed as something else than what you ment.
10:55	ddellacosta	bodie_: it's always good to give folks the benefit of the doubt methinks
10:55	ddellacosta	bodie_: yah, haha
10:55	Anderkent	shocking :)
10:55	ddellacosta	Anderkent: heh. ;-)
10:56	bodie_	Anderkent, the difference therefore is in how you respond, meaning the responsibility lies on the individual ;)
10:59	technomancy	we used to have people looking for pirated ebooks come by every so often, but I haven't noticed it as much recently
11:01	tmciver	That's because technomancy puts 'em in their place. :)
11:02	ddellacosta	technomancy: seriously? Clojure books in particular?
11:09	technomancy	ddellacosta: I don't think they expected the authors to hang out on irc
11:10	AimHere	I just want a pirated copy of clojure
11:10	teslanick	It's lines like the above that makes me wish there were an @Horse_Clojure some days.
11:12	wink	I thought it was about a talk
11:15	Guest77325	http://www.marketglory.com/strategygame/galahad1st for online gamers, if you didn't already, use this link to register on MerkatGlory: a free2play financial strategy game where virtual currency can be converted into real money. It starts out slow but in time you can turn a good profit that is if you have the necessary patience to grow a little bit every day :P
11:21	philth	I'll never play marketglory, thanks spammer. MeerkatGlory however...
12:11	mikerod	hmm
12:12	mikerod	,(clojure.java.io/writer (clojure.java.io/writer "filename.txt"))
12:12	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: denied>
12:13	mikerod	I have noticed that a File will open a FileOutputStream with clojure.java.io . I do not believe this is safe when encoding is a concern. Then I noticed that an OutputStream with the `writer` fn would wrap it in an OutputStreamWriter
12:14	mikerod	So would this be the typical path to getting an OutputStreamWriter from a file?
12:14	mikerod	it is sort of odd looking to call `writer` twice :P
12:14	mikerod	I know I could just Java interop of course.
12:21	clgv	mikerod: you can specify the encoding via optional parameters
12:23	mikerod	clgv: yes, that too
12:23	mikerod	clgv: I meant to actually get the OSWriter
12:24	mikerod	Since the File alone would just get me a FileOutputStream
12:26	hiredman	mikerod: streams, outpunt and input, operate at the level of unencoded bytes, if you care about encoding you should use readers and writers
12:29	simon_	Hello, I have a list of PGobjects like so (#<PGobject dev> #<PGobject live> ... )
12:29	simon_	I can call getValue on it by doing "(.getValue (first myList))"
12:29	simon_	But I cannot map .getValue over the list
12:29	simon_	I get CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: .getValue in this context,
12:30	xeqi	,(doc mem-fn)
12:30	noprompt	dnolen_: what's the status on the new cljs version?
12:30	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
12:30	nathanic	simon_: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/memfn
12:30	dnolen_	noprompt: I pushed it out on Wednesday
12:30	dnolen_	2197
12:30	simon_	noprompt: great, thanks!
12:30	noprompt	dnolen_: ah, cool, the README still says 2173.
12:31	noprompt	dnolen_: haven't read the ML in a bit.
12:31	TravisD	Ah, that is so much better than making anonymous function wrappers
12:31	dnolen_	noprompt: thx for pointing that out, fixed
12:33	noprompt	dnolen_: thanks!
12:33	TravisD	I mean, it is the same thing, but it looks nicer
12:38	michaniskin	cemerick: is the key in the repositories map passed to resolve-dependencies! significant? or can the key be any string?
12:38	cemerick	michaniskin: sorry, where?
12:39	michaniskin	cemerick: https://github.com/cemerick/pomegranate/blob/master/src/main/clojure/cemerick/pomegranate/aether.clj#L639
12:39	michaniskin	cemerick: the "name" there
12:39	cemerick	michaniskin: yeah, any string AFAIK; corresponds to "targets" in lein tasks, but no real constraints
12:40	michaniskin	cemerick: thanks!
12:40	xeqi	michaniskin: I believe it is best to try and use "standard" names, as Aether may pull in further name/repo settings for transative deps
12:41	michaniskin	xeqi: you mean aether itself adds new repositories?
12:41	michaniskin	xeqi: and what would be a "standard" name? i've been using the url.
12:42	xeqi	michaniskin: if a pom includes new repositories it will add them to make sure you can download any transative deps
12:43	xeqi	michaniskin: I really mean just don't go defining central as someother name, I'm not sure if it will cause problems but it seems like a bad idea
12:44	michaniskin	xeqi: i see. this whole thing seems like a bad idea :)
12:45	michaniskin	but we go to war with the ideas we have
12:49	ambrosebs	Bronsa: how do I get a line number from a :def expr?
12:50	ambrosebs	not having much luck
12:53	cemerick	dnolen_: shouldn't e.g. (om/allow-reads @cursor) work in render? (Trying to do some thrash-debugging here.)
12:53	Bronsa	ambrosebs: (-> (analyze '(def x 1) (empty-env)) :meta :form :line) ;;=> 1
12:53	dnolen_	cemerick: that combination doesn't really make sense. if you deref you don't need to bother with allow-reads
12:53	ambrosebs	Bronsa: ah!
12:54	cemerick	dnolen_: and yet, "Cannot deref cursor during render phase: [object Object]"
12:54	bodie_	to anyone who's really experienced with Clojure: what are some pitfalls / do you feel in the end that it's been worth it? or would you have gone a different route if you were in the shoes of a newcomer?
12:54	dnolen_	cemerick: what are you trying to do?
12:55	Bronsa	ambrosebs: you really want to just do (-> the-node :env :line) though
12:55	ambrosebs	Bronsa: do I have to write my own pass for that?
12:55	dnolen_	cemerick: if you need to get at the value, om.core/value works
12:55	Bronsa	ambrosebs: no, it already works
12:56	Bronsa	ambrosebs: the env will have :line/:column/:file when available
12:56	cemerick	dnolen_: OK, om/value worked. Was just wanting to pump verbose-mode console prints. Not really clear on why deref'ing is frowned upon…?
12:56	Bronsa	ambrosebs: note that :file will not be there when not available, instead of defaulting to "NO_SOURCE"
12:57	dnolen_	cemerick: because deref'ing can give you something inconsistent
12:58	ambrosebs	Bronsa: I only see :ns, :context and :file in some of my :def :env's.
12:58	ambrosebs	Bronsa: the :line is still in :meta tho
12:59	ambrosebs	anyway g2g
13:01	stuartsierra	bodie_: I was biased toward lisp when I started with closure more than five years ago. But I feel it has been totally worthwhile.
13:01	stuartsierra	*clojure
13:02	technomancy	bodie_: you're not going to get anyone in this channel who didn't think it was worth it
13:02	technomancy	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
13:02	bodie_	lol!
13:03	bodie_	hmm, that's not necessarily applicable, since some people may be stuck with a large and unwieldy codebase that they have to maintain professionally, for example
13:04	bodie_	I don't think everyone who has 15 years of Java or C++ experience thinks they're ideal languages
13:04	bodie_	(though you could probably make a case for it with C++)
13:04	technomancy	that's true
13:04	bodie_	stuartsierra, thanks for the input. can you elaborate on what you experience has been like? do you use it professionally?
13:05	technomancy	though in that case you would wonder if people would fail to speak up because they don't want to get into a huge argument right now with all the pro-clojure people in the channel
13:05	bodie_	lol
13:05	bodie_	some people like a healthy debate ;)
13:05	pdk	[13:01] <bodie_> I don't think everyone who has 15 years of Java or C++ experience thinks they're ideal languages
13:06	pdk	ive seen some koolaid drinkers
13:06	cemerick	dnolen_: That reply makes me want to throw 20 questions at you, but I will restrain myself. Thanks for the `value` workaround.
13:06	stuartsierra	bodie_: Yes, I work for Relevance/Cognitect, where we use Clojure professionally every day. I've done a lot of blogging and conference talks about the experience: they're easy to find online.
13:07	bodie_	:) cool!
13:07	dnolen_	cemerick: the rendering loop is async, you only want to render consistent snapshots - I've provided loop holes but we're going to error out if you try to do obviously bad things.
13:07	cemerick	bodie_: search for "why clojure sucks", for one treatment.
13:07	bodie_	pdk -- i meant not all people think it's ideal, not "all people think it's not ideal"
13:08	bodie_	thanks cemerick
13:08	stuartsierra	In fact, nearly all the talks from past Clojure conferences are online somewhere. Lots of those include practical experience reports.
13:08	TEttinger	bodie_: it's been worth it, but I would not use clojure for games. which is mostly what I do. for certain tasks clojure is vastly more effective in my experience
13:08	bodie_	what do you like to use for games? C++?
13:08	Anderkent	bodie_: We've went with clojure over java for a web service a year or two ago, been pretty happy with it
13:08	technomancy	interesting experiment would be to ask in #scala for stories of people who tried clojure and gave up, and ask vice-versa in here =)
13:09	stuartsierra	That would be interesting.
13:09	bodie_	hehehe
13:09	bodie_	Hmm, I did ask the latter half already. it was good.
13:10	rootex	all answers will lead you to haskell :)
13:10	bodie_	how about Typed Clojure? anyone play with that much?
13:10	TEttinger	bodie_: I got further in C# than Clojure in about the same time, despite having better libs in Clojure/Java-land. C# was easier to port certain algorithms to and I didn't have the same issues with optimization seeming necessary when it turns out I was optimizing the wrong places
13:11	bodie_	I see
13:11	TEttinger	however for other things I can churn out a clojure "script" in a few minutes that does what would take me an hour in C#
13:11	bodie_	I don't get much out of C#
13:12	Raynes	conch has so many stars
13:12	bodie_	but that's a good thing to bring up
13:12	technomancy	there are the obvious things clojure is bad for, like fast-launching scripts, low-memory environments, and C FFI.
13:12	alpheus	I'm having trouble getting OAUTH2 with Google working. I'm just trying the ddellacosta/friend-oauth2-examples for google oauth2.
13:12	alpheus	After the 302 redirect from Google to the callback URI (with a state and code that look good) I try to access the /authlink, which should work but I get a 403.
13:12	alpheus	The HTTP headers and the ring request maps all look reasonable to me. What should I look at next?
13:12	alpheus
13:13	rootex	technomancy: wish we had a clojure in c :)
13:13	technomancy	rootex: I just wish we had C libraries on a nicer runtime
13:14	bodie_	there's a compiler for clojure -> gambit which compiles to C
13:14	gtrak	C# has a pretty good FFI, no?
13:15	technomancy	OCaml has good C FFI, but it gets that by representing its own strings the same way C does
13:15	technomancy	which is really not so great
13:15	rootex	technomancy: a clojure in C is more realistic :)
13:15	technomancy	trade-offs are a thing
13:15	bodie_	technomancy, wouldn't you say that a lot of the memory and speed issues around Clojure are able to be optimized away with some work via type hinting?
13:15	TEttinger	gtrak: depends? SWIG seems to work but I haven't gotten very far
13:15	bodie_	or is that an illusion I've acquired?
13:15	SegFaultAX	Strings in Erlang are also pretty dicey.
13:15	Raynes	technomancy: You mean to tell me I can't run my Clojure on my toaster?
13:16	Raynes	SegFaultAX: You bean binary lists :P
13:16	Raynes	mean*
13:16	SegFaultAX	Raynes: Exactly.
13:16	TEttinger	bodie_: speed issues yes, memory not so much
13:16	koalallama	technomancy: I was reading Clojure Programming the other night and saw a link to one of your libs/tools
13:16	SegFaultAX	koalallama: Probably lein.
13:16	bodie_	right, type hinting wouldn't solve that issue, but wouldn't proper tco?
13:16	technomancy	bodie_: type hinting solves a very small subset of speed issues.
13:16	koalallama	technomancy: just thought you should know that you are famous in my eyes
13:17	bodie_	I suppose I meant "tools like type hinting and recur"
13:17	technomancy	bodie_: granted they are often severe speed issues, but they're not all that common
13:17	bodie_	hmm
13:17	technomancy	koalallama: haha cool
13:17	SegFaultAX	technomancy: It might be a small subset, but that subset can dramatically impact your performance.
13:17	bodie_	SegFaultAX, good point - I was actually considering elixir as an option against clojure
13:18	justin_smith	bodie_: I think it really depends on what aspect of performance needs improving - startup time? throughput in tight loops? RAM usage?
13:18	SegFaultAX	Reflection ain't free, afterall.
13:18	justin_smith	(by RAM usage I mean more cache performance)
13:18	koalallama	SegFaultAX: nope, it was something else. I'll have to check. It was in the footnotes around pp480ish
13:18	SegFaultAX	bodie_: I actually enjoy Erlang's syntax because I'm a weirdo. Elixir is also beautiful, though.
13:18	bodie_	I don't know enough about Clojure's pitfalls to know to ask a question specifically enough to answer your question, justin_smith :)
13:18	SegFaultAX	koalallama: Well it's certainly his most famous library since it's the de facto project manager for Clojure.
13:19	bodie_	Erlang does have beautiful syntax.
13:19	bodie_	I am not very productive with it however.
13:19	justin_smith	bodie_: each of those issues have different answers, and some contradict one another :)
13:19	SegFaultAX	bodie_: I don't know if I would call it beautiful necessarily. Using `,` and `.` to separate/terminate statements can be quite tedious during refactoring.
13:20	koalallama	SegFaultAX: I know :)
13:20	bodie_	cemerick, I'm really enjoying this "what sucks about clojure" talk :) good pointer
13:20	cemerick	bodie_: :-) It's a bit old, but isn't dated, if that makes sense.
13:20	technomancy	SegFaultAX: the separator nonsense is realyl my only complaint about the syntax too
13:21	bodie_	sure. I think the test of time is a good thing.
13:21	SegFaultAX	technomancy: Yea. But frankly, the annoyance of using `,` and `.` is offset dramatically by Erlang's pervasive pattern matching.
13:22	SegFaultAX	Oh man it makes me fuzzy inside just thinking about it.
13:22	bodie_	Erlang has some pretty damn nifty features.
13:22	technomancy	I wonder if you could solve the ,/. problem with something paredit-like
13:22	SegFaultAX	Perhaps.
13:23	SegFaultAX	But even JA thinks Elixir's syntax is pretty sweet (though it doesn't actually hide enough of the warts according to him, while still introducing its own)
13:23	technomancy	adding \|> helps a lot
13:23	SegFaultAX	Yes! Pipe syntax is /sweet/!
13:30	melipone	help! I was storing hash codes and after switching to clojure 1.6, my hash codes are no longer valid! I was able to retrieve them after backtracking to 1.5 but what's going on?
13:30	rasmusto	melipone: there was a hash collision bug in 1.5 and earlier
13:31	llasram	melipone: By "storing hash codes" you mean caching hashes, or e.g. storing them in a database?
13:31	melipone	jeez! how can I convert?
13:32	melipone	llasram: I was storing them in a hash-map
13:32	oskarth	What's the idiomatic way to get a resource from an API with a jsonblob in its body using clj-http? Right now I'm parsing it using cheshire (another dependency) like this: (parse-string (:body resp))
13:32	melipone	llasram: and I was writing the hash-map out so it's like a database
13:32	dakrone	oskarth: you can use {:as :json} in clj-http to get back a clojure map from json strings automatically if you like
13:32	TravisD	melipone: If you have the original objects, you could rebuild the hash map
13:33	melipone	TravisD: I am not sure I have the original objects...
13:34	TravisD	melipone: Can't you get them by calling keys and vals on the map?
13:34	oskarth	dakrone: oh! I tried it before but realized I had two maps instead of dakrone one, now it works. Thanks :)
13:34	dakrone	oskarth: you're welcome :)
13:35	TravisD	melipone: (You could, for example, do that with clojure 1.5 and dump the values to file somehow)
13:37	melipone	TravisD: the vals are not just the translation of the keys
13:39	bodie_	cemerick -- 28 minute delorean joke is hilarious
13:39	bodie_	i know you stole it, but i got a good laugh
13:40	TravisD	melipone: I'm not sure that I understand the problem. If you need the key-value pairs you could just call seq on the map, no?
13:41	mikerod	does Clojure have any libraries for seq'ing through jar files?
13:41	melipone	TravisD: but I am going to get a hash value for the key and I don't know what it maps to
13:41	mikerod	analogous perhaps to file-seq
13:42	mikerod	I guess it doesn't always make sense...
13:42	TravisD	melipone: Ah, I see. That seems like a troubling situation
13:42	melipone	TravisD: I guess I'll figure it out somehow ... but jeez ...
13:44	TravisD	melipone: So, presumably you only care about keys that appear as hashes of objects that are somehow produced in your application. You could reimplement the old hash function and then build a new map in clojure 1.6. If you don't find a given key in the new map, look it up in the old map using the 1.5 hash function. If it's there, move it over, otherwise add it to the 1.6 hash. or something.
13:45	TravisD	I'll stop speculating and flooding now though :)
13:53	koonchun	#rust
14:00	DaReaper5	Hey all, how can I convert a java.util.Date to org.joda.time.ReadableInstant ?
14:00	justin_smith	https://github.com/clj-time/clj-time DaReaper5: clj-time is a wrapper around joda stuff
14:01	justin_smith	I have found it very reliable and easy to use
14:01	DaReaper5	justin_smith: yupp, already using it
14:01	amalloy	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5137666/how-to-convert-a-java-date-to-a-readableinstant-for-joda-time-inside-a-jsp
14:01	DaReaper5	justin_smith: is there a method inthere for an easy conversion
14:01	amalloy	third google result for org.joda.time.ReadableInstant
14:02	DaReaper5	amalloy: yes but that is in java... i guess ill remind myself what the equivalent clojure code is
14:03	justin_smith	DaReaper5: I think the clj-time type that it creates implements ReadableInstant
14:03	justin_smith	anything that returns a DateTime
14:07	xpera	Raynes: I've enjoyed Laser! I'm having some trouble with how hickory and quoin handle HTML entities though
14:07	xpera	I wonder if David Santiago is in here? https://github.com/davidsantiago/hickory/issues/16
14:15	amalloy	xpera: dsantiag_ is probably dsantiago's answering machine
14:16	dsantiag_	I do not know why it won't let me change my nick back.
14:16	amalloy	dsantiag_: you're probably in another channel that's banned dsantiago
14:16	amalloy	leave that one, then you can change nicks
14:17	dsantiago	No idea why I'd be banned in #git. Haven't spoken in there for ages.
14:17	amalloy	hey, that happened to me too
14:17	amalloy	i forget why
14:17	xpera	dsantiago: thanks for finding me
14:17	dsantiago	I was just replying to you.
14:17	amalloy	#git has weird rules
14:17	technomancy	some channels ban for constant nick changes
14:18	Bronsa	:/
14:18	technomancy	like if you keep adding and removing _away
14:18	xpera	dsantiago: I wrote up some things here https://github.com/davidsantiago/hickory/issues/16 would like to hear what you think
14:18	dsantiago	xpera: Yep, that is what I am replying to.
14:18	dsantiago	Gimme a min.
14:19	xpera	thanks. this is part of a larger saga too about Jetty and HTML entities: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22752678
14:22	justin_smith	xpera: a hack would be a substitution map on the enlive output that turns the utf8 characters into proper html escaped entities
14:24	xpera	justin_smith: yes, that would be a good hack! my goal would be to understand Jetty well enough to tell it to behave as expected
14:24	justin_smith	fair enough, that part I can't help with :)
14:26	xpera	right :) maybe some ring or pedestal folks know some Jetty content type / unicode tricks
14:28	marcuscreo	hey benkay, how' life?
14:29	justin_smith	xpera: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-2381 maybe a bug in that jetty version?
14:29	justin_smith	JAVA_OPTIONS+=("-Dfile.encoding=UTF-8") <- another page suggests adding this to bin/jetty.sh
14:30	xpera	justin_smith: thanks a bunch. i'll try that.
14:32	xpera	justin_smith: this was what you saw? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4214111/jetty-character-encoding-issue
14:33	justin_smith	yeah, I should have shared that too
14:36	tvachon	arg, anyone else having trouble with clojars? I can't even get lein to run https://gist.github.com/travis/9899061
14:36	tvachon	and https://clojars.org/ is just failing to load
14:36	justin_smith	oh ouch!
14:37	justin_smith	http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/clojars.org
14:37	rasmusto	its down for me
14:37	justin_smith	"It's just you. http://clojars.org is up." - clojars does not load for me either though
14:39	amalloy	xeqi: ^
14:39	coventry	Is there a clojure.core function f for which (= ((f inc dec) [0 0]) [1 -1])?
14:40	amalloy	coventry: no, but https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/flatland/useful/fn.clj#L94
14:40	coventry	Thanks.
14:41	amalloy	out of curiosity, what did you want it for, coventry? mapping one function over a map's keys and another over its values is the only use that's obvious to me
14:41	coventry	That's exactly what I wanted it for.
14:42	Raynes	It's scary how Clojure ceases to exist when clojars goes down :P
14:43	justin_smith	there should really be mirrors
14:43	justin_smith	and some kind of mirror friendly option in lein
14:43	tvachon	well, don't think it's quite that bad, I restarted my network interface and it's behaving better, I suspect something got crazy in my stack
14:43	tvachon	though I definitely wouldn't have (can't?) download required deps
14:43	coventry	Is there any way to tell lein not to check for updates?
14:44	justin_smith	tvachon: if so it is crazy in my stack too
14:44	amalloy	lein -o <whatever>
14:44	tvachon	ah
14:44	tvachon	well at least I'm not nuts
14:45	xpera	justin_smith: hooray. I will buy you a beer sometime.
14:45	amalloy	(which, incidentally, i discovered by running `lein help`)
14:46	justin_smith	xpera: glad it worked
14:46	xpera	justin_smith: i'll update my chef-jetty chef recipe and share that soon
14:46	doky	hello is it possible to pass items of list on-by-one to function ? http://pastebin.com/F67qiYn5
14:46	amalloy	doky: apply
14:47	coventry	amalloy: "lein -o help"? :-) "lein help" is hanging for me. I suppose I should have changed my cwd.
14:47	amalloy	haha
14:47	amalloy	ouch
14:48	amalloy	oh. or map? i hadn't read your paste, doky
14:48	justin_smith	yeah, he wants map
14:48	doky	will it work with apply, will tried it but maybe i did there any mistake in syntax or something like that
14:48	rasmusto	,(map (fn [n] {:what "hi" :who n}) ["bob" "tom"])
14:48	clojurebot	({:what "hi", :who "bob"} {:what "hi", :who "tom"})
14:48	xpera	if anyone wants to get Jetty 9 to work, this is what I use: https://github.com/bluemont/chef-jetty/commit/5796e2c660efe036c81238f86352e9de6b611a54
14:49	justin_smith	nice
14:49	doky	woow thanks :)
14:49	rasmusto	doky: understanding "map" is the path to enlightenment
14:50	ptcek	rasmusto: and reduce :)
14:50	doky	:D i will remember
14:50	justin_smith	rasmusto: the map is not the territory! map only shows where the path is :)
14:50	oskarth	Is there (a) a collection of everything clojurebot has evaluated or (b) a nice downloadable archive of chat logs for #clojure?
14:51	amalloy	oskarth: devn has such a project
14:52	amalloy	yeah, https://github.com/devn/getclojure
14:52	oskarth	amalloy: this one? http://getclojure.com/search?q=iterate+AND+range&num=0 thanks
14:52	oskarth	coo
14:52	oskarth	cool* :)
15:03	hlship	is anyone else seeing clojars.org as down? Can't even ping it right now.
15:03	rasmusto	yessir
15:03	tvachon	yep
15:03	amalloy	hlship: yes. we've raised the bat-signal for xeqi
15:03	hlship	glad its not just me
15:03	hlship	was having wierd DNS issues last week
15:04	trptcolin	http://status.linode.com/
15:05	amalloy	ah, thanks trptcolin
15:08	startling	I'd like to call some clojure code from some java code in the same package. It's apparently not sufficient to say :aot [whatever] -- I still get "cannot find symbol" where I try to import whatever in java. What else needs to be done?
15:08	hiredman	startling: lein runs the clojure compiler after javac
15:08	startling	hiredman: ah, well.
15:09	xpera	dsantiago: thanks for your help. I'd also be curious if I'm off-base about reflection.
15:09	startling	Is this kind of thing possible at all without using clojure.lang.RT?
15:09	trptcolin	np
15:09	amalloy	startling: it's easier to, rather than AOTing the clojure code, have java call into an ordinary clojure function via RT
15:10	hiredman	startling: https://github.com/sonian/Greenmail is my go to example of java and clojure in one project
15:10	amalloy	starting in clojure 1.6 there's a somewhat more java-friendly API than RT, in clojure.java.api.Clojure, iirc
15:10	startling	hiredman, thanks, I'll take a look
15:10	hiredman	startling: if you look at the com.icegreen.greenmail.util.Greenmail class you can see using RT to get vars and using vars to require namespaces and call functions
15:12	gtrak	startling: it's pretty tiny: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/java/api/Clojure.java
15:15	seancorfield	startling: FWIW, at World Singles we load all our Clojure into our main app using clojure.lang.RT (we haven't switched to the new API yet) and it works really well
15:16	seancorfield	you just need to have the project src on your classpath - and the various JARs you rely on (which is the fun part)
15:16	oskarth	dakrone: another question. I'm trying to translate a curl post request to clj-http. This is what my body looks like when I use :debug in clj-http "name=test+name&email=test+email&address%5Bcountry_code%5D=DE<etc>" and here's what it looks like in curl: "name=Sterling Archer&email=your@test.email.com&address[line1]=Pr<etc>". The curl one is working, and the
15:16	oskarth	clj-http is not. What's wrong here? %5B and %5D correspond to [ and ], but not sure if that's picked up properly.
15:17	seancorfield	Much depends on how your Java code is set up and how much control you have over it (in terms of whether it needs to just interact with a Java-like class or whether you can write all the interop from scratch)
15:19	justin_smith	oskarth: I think an embedded map that looks like {:address {:country_code "DE"} ...} should do what you want iirc
15:19	oskarth	justin_smith: that's what it looks like right now
15:20	justin_smith	oh
15:20	oskarth	and somehow it's translating it correctly, since I didn't put the [ and ] in there
15:20	oskarth	but still not all the way, and all I get from the server is a 400
15:20	justin_smith	except it is escaping the [ and ], so I am guessing a misbehaving abstraction layer
15:21	oskarth	yeah indeed. Trying to use the plaintext string right now instead but getting some other error :p
15:34	upwardindex	Can some kind of deadlock happen in http-kit when compared to jetty? (sometimes my server stops responding and it only happens since i switched from one to the other)
15:36	justin_smith	upwardindex: perhaps you had some operations in your handler that are not compatible with http-kit's more pervasive async
15:36	justin_smith	like in jetty you can assume each request has exactly one thread it runs in, start to finish
15:36	justin_smith	in http-kit this is not the case
15:36	justin_smith	(which can mess with things like dynamic vars that are thread specific)
15:36	abaker	yeeehah, clojars is back up
15:47	upwardindex	justin_smith: Yes, I’m most probably doing something http-kit does not like. Any idea what it does not like? The doc page isn’t quite explicit about stuff I shouldn’t do
15:47	justin_smith	are you using any dynamic vars?
15:47	justin_smith	any thread-local stuff in general?
15:49	upwardindex	justin_smith: no dynamic vars, just atoms and hmmm is “locking” thread local?
15:50	justin_smith	what are the chances that you are trying to alter the atom in multiple threads? would retries be better than failing? if so switch atoms to refs
15:51	justin_smith	*I think
15:51	upwardindex	So basically, I shouldn’t use atoms with http-kit?
15:51	upwardindex	That’s a pretty huge deal
15:51	justin_smith	let me check something...
15:52	AeroNotix	Did something just go tit's up with Clojars?
15:52	justin_smith	yeah, it has been weird today
15:52	AeroNotix	great :)
15:52	xeqi	AeroNotix: linode has been having problems with it's atlanta data center
15:53	AeroNotix	I have a huge deploy planned :) Sigh. This is what I get for not pushing for private repos harder.
15:53	AeroNotix	xeqi: roger
15:53	xeqi	funnily enough, when I talked to people about clojars as point of failure at c/w no one cared cause it was always up :p
15:54	xeqi	maybe I should move talking to fastly as a possible cdn higher on my task list
15:54	AeroNotix	c/w?
15:54	AeroNotix	clojurewest?
15:56	xeqi	AeroNotix: yep
15:58	xeqi	AeroNotix: what would you use as a private repo?
15:59	AeroNotix	xeqi: we're currently ramping up our Archiva usage
15:59	AeroNotix	From what I can tell, you can mirror other stuff
16:00	xeqi	AeroNotix: yep, should be able to mirror. Easy for someone to admin?
16:00	AeroNotix	xeqi: one of our ops guys didn't say it was perfect, but it's not overly annoying
16:00	AeroNotix	he said he found some pieces "snowflakes" which he means that they do some non-standard stuff.
16:00	AeroNotix	That's all I know
16:00	AeroNotix	but from my perspective, it's all rainbows
16:04	ivan	I'm really sad because I can't put metadata on a keyword
16:05	dsjklj	in your opinion what does i hope to see you again mean if said by one of the interviewers at the end of a job interview?
16:05	hfaafb	s/he hopes to see you again
16:06	petron	I'm doing a intro to Clojure talk to a bunch of university students. Is it okay if I use the Clojure logo on my slides? (which are based on Rich Hickey's "Clojure for Java Programmers" talk, with credit).
16:08	dsjklj	but would you say that would be because he is worried i reject a possible offer or because he does not know if they will make one?
16:09	ianeslick	No, it means he enjoyed the conversation and hopes the rest of the process goes well and that you come back / get an offer.
16:09	ianeslick	Personal statement of support, says little about the process itself.
16:09	zspencer	What is the human word for `()?
16:09	zspencer	It's inside of a macro
16:10	ianeslick	empty list
16:10	zspencer	I thought that was '()
16:11	seancorfield	,`()
16:11	clojurebot	()
16:11	seancorfield	,()
16:11	clojurebot	()
16:11	seancorfield	,'()
16:11	clojurebot	()
16:11	seancorfield	:)
16:11	hiredman	,()
16:11	clojurebot	()
16:12	hiredman	(you don't need to quote the empty list in clojure as in some other lisps)
16:12	seancorfield	the point I was making
16:12	zspencer	For reference: http://www.amazon.com/Chemex-6-Cup-Classic-Series-Coffee/dp/B0000YWF5E%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-d-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB0000YWF5E
16:12	zspencer	eerm that's the other paste bin
16:12	zspencer	https://github.com/ptaoussanis/carmine#connections
16:12	hiredman	seancorfield: ah, I missed the unquoted one
16:13	trptcolin	i like the first link better (not that the second one’s bad)
16:13	zspencer	lol
16:13	zspencer	I really need to figure out macros for reals instead of just kind of assuming how they work
16:13	seancorfield	ah, you're just asking about syntax quote in general zspencer ?
16:13	brehaut	zspencer: a good paste error though
16:14	zspencer	So I can intuit that the & body bit is "My arguments are code" and the ~@body is "put the code here!"
16:15	zspencer	So the macro isn't actually calling car/wcar?
16:16	seancorfield	perhaps macroexpand will help you here? that way you can see exactly what a macro expands to...
16:16	zspencer	Agg te
16:16	zspencer	Ahh yes. That would be handy
16:16	seancorfield	the macro transforms code to code
16:16	seancorfield	but macros can include evaluated expressions as well as quoted (code) expressions
16:17	zspencer	So the list it returns is actually the code it executes
16:19	seancorfield	Macros are expanded, then the resulting code is evaluated.
16:19	seancorfield	Not sure what your "it" refers to.
16:20	seancorfield	The list the macro returns is actually the code Clojure executes perhaps?
16:20	zspencer	the it being `(car/wcar server1-conn ~@body)
16:21	seancorfield	if you have (wcar* :foo 42), it will expand to (car/wcar server1-conn :foo 42)
16:21	seancorfield	then that expanded code will be evaluated (if the original (wcar* :foo 42) form would have been evaluated)
16:22	zspencer	Got it
16:22	zspencer	so if (wcar* (inc 1)) it'd become (car/wcar server1-conn (inc 1))
16:23	seancorfield	note that car/wcar is also a macro https://github.com/ptaoussanis/carmine/blob/master/src/taoensso/carmine.clj#L17
16:23	seancorfield	right, the code is transformed first, evaluated second
16:23	seancorfield	but (car/wcar server1-conn (inc 1)) will also macro-expand before evaluation
16:25	zspencer	so when do dynamics come into play with bindings?
16:25	zspencer	erm macro expansions*
16:25	tuft	anyone using immutant?
16:25	seancorfield	dynamic variables and bindings happen when code is evaluated
16:26	zspencer	So they should play nicely with macro expansions
16:26	coventry	It's worth having a look at some of the macros in the later parts of clojure.core. https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L4111
16:26	seancorfield	most macros expand to code, some macros cause some evaluation to happen as part of the expansion
16:26	seancorfield	but dynamic variables are frowned on in Clojure these days
16:26	seancorfield	(in general)
16:26	zspencer	I'm beginning to see why :-p
16:27	tcrawley	tuft: come see us in #immutant if you have any immutant-specific questions
16:32	rasmusto	is there a way I can get something in clojure.tools.trace to inspect the values in a let binding?
16:35	coventry	rasmusto: There is trace-forms, but that's only informative on error.
16:35	gtrak	rasmusto: http://blog.gaz-jones.com/2012/02/04/debug_let.html ?
16:35	gtrak	we have something similar in our codebase
16:37	rasmusto	gtrak: ok, i'll give it a shot
16:37	rasmusto	coventry: that actually might work for now, since I do have an error
16:38	rasmusto	coventry: er, I guess it doesn't dig into the body of the function, just reports back what the top-level was called with
16:39	gtrak	rasmusto: what we use I think is actually this def-let thingy: http://www.learningclojure.com/2010/09/astonishing-macro-of-narayan-singhal.html
16:40	coventry	rasmusto: That sounds more like deftrace. trace-forms will give you a stack of the forms executed.
16:41	rasmusto	coventry: I can use trace-forms on a (let [a 1 b nil] (first a))
16:41	rasmusto	and it'll error out and give me the bindings
16:41	rasmusto	but if I call it on a form with a call to a function in it, it doesn't dig deeper
16:42	rasmusto	gtrak: doesn't that have the risk of clobbering other global vars?
16:42	coventry	Oh, you mean it doesn't tell you the return value. Yeah.
16:43	gtrak	rasmusto: yes, sometimes it's more trouble than it's worth.
16:43	rasmusto	well, it tells me that (foo 3) failed
16:43	rasmusto	but it doesn't dig deeper and tell me that the (let [a (first 1)]) inside of 'foo failed
16:47	coventry	Looking inside of 'foo seems like a different problem than inspecting the values in a let binding, more like providing inspection for all frames in the stack trace.
16:47	amalloy	rasmusto: it couldn't do that without recompiling foo
16:47	rasmusto	amalloy: ah, ok.
16:47	amalloy	(and, therefore, recompiling every function in your entire codebase that foo might need to call, etc)
16:48	coventry	If you're looking for a debugger, schmetterling is nice.
16:48	rasmusto	sounds like I should go on that route
16:49	rasmusto	coventry: https://github.com/prismofeverything/schmetterling this one?
16:49	coventry	Yeah.
16:51	rasmusto	seems a bit heavy for what i'm doing, maybe that's just me
16:55	coventry	Perhaps I should pick up troncle again. That was fun.
16:58	rasmusto	went back to _ (println blah) :(
16:59	rasmusto	found my bug though, so there's that.
17:15	mercwithamouth	does anyone have a compojure project on github I can take a look at?
17:15	mercwithamouth	or can point me to a small one?
17:17	mercwithamouth	got one
17:22	rasmusto	mercwithamouth: there's `lein new compojure` iirc
17:26	cYmen_	Hm...I am calling (js/alert (nodes (by-class "foo"))) with domina
17:26	cYmen_	and there are clearly tags with "foo" class in the src
17:26	cYmen_	but I get null back
17:26	cYmen_	any ideas what I might be doing wrong?
17:27	cYmen_	I'm doing this in a <script> tag but it should probably be attached to a document.ready..maybe that's the problem?
17:30	brehaut	if your script tag is at the end of the document your code can see all the existing nodes
17:30	brehaut	if its in the head then you will need to use a load or ready handler
17:31	cYmen_	Okay so just before </html>?
17:31	brehaut	i think before </body> from memory
17:32	coventry	cYmen_: If you think it might be something like that, you might be able to try domina.nodes(domina.by_class("foo")) in the console after you've verified that the nodes are present. (Not sure whether that trick'll work with a protocol method.)
17:33	cYmen_	brehaut: seems not to help, maybe it's something else after all
17:33	cYmen_	coventry: I'll try
17:33	cYmen_	wait..what console? :)
17:33	cYmen_	you mean a brepl?
17:34	coventry	I assumed you didn't have a brepl because you're using js/alert to explore this, and getting a brepl going is a big hairy yak. :-)
17:34	cYmen_	coventry: indeed
17:35	cYmen_	So where else can I input stuff?
17:36	cYmen_	Sorry, I haven't done any webdev in 10 years or so :p
17:36	cYmen_	I'm using firefox btw
17:37	coventry	I meant the javascript console. I think you can start the js console in ff from Tools -> Web Developer -> Web Console.
17:37	coventry	(At least on OS X.)
17:37	cYmen_	hehe
17:37	cYmen_	I have that open but don't know here to input anything >_<
17:38	coventry	There's a little ">>" at the bottom of mine which accepts input.
17:39	cYmen_	hm...
17:39	cYmen_	I get [object Object]
17:39	brehaut	congratulations you have nearly anything ;)
17:39	cYmen_	and if I alert that I do not get null
17:39	brehaut	(but not nothing)
17:40	cYmen_	so apparently the problem is somehow with the order of execution and dom creation
17:40	cYmen_	now where do I call this damn script :)
17:40	coventry	Sounds like you've verified the hypothesis.
17:42	cYmen_	alriiight
17:43	cYmen_	A little searching turned up this:
17:43	cYmen_	(defn on-doc-ready [] (aset js/document "onreadystatechange" init))
17:43	cYmen_	(on-doc-ready)
17:43	cYmen_	Which is exactly what the old javascript code did and seems to work.
17:45	coventry	Hmm, I wonder why we don't need that.
17:46	brehaut	i dont know much about cljs, but aset lets you set object properties O_O
17:46	coventry	Ah, we use (set! (.-onload js/window) setup!*)) which is similar I guess.
17:46	cYmen_	What's the * for?
17:47	brehaut	coventry: phew
17:49	coventry	cYmen_: It's a minor change from setup! which turns off some reporting functionality we'll want in production.
17:50	cYmen_	ah :)
17:54	cYmen_	well, thanks for your help guys
17:57	coventry	NP. BTW, (js/console.log (pr-str obj)) tends to be a lot easier to go review than js/alert.
17:58	amalloy	coventry: is js/console.log really guaranteed to work? i see people use it all the time, when it seems like the only form that the compiler would guarantee works is (.log js/console)
17:59	coventry	I don't know, it may be bad practice. Hasn't bitten me yet.
18:02	bbloom	amalloy: it was even more permissive before & we broke some ppl, but i forget the details
18:02	bbloom	hasn't changed for quite some time, probably safe to rely on it at this point
18:04	dnolen_	amalloy: it is guaranteed to work actually, as far as I can tell intentionally
18:05	dnolen_	amalloy: an exception for js/foo as far as I can tell
18:06	hiredman	guaranteed as much as anything in js is
18:31	chare	does the web dev setup in clojure have a way to avoid having to restart the webserver everytime i make a small change to the code, so i don't have to rerun lein compile and lein ring server
18:31	gtrak	chare: there's tons of ways to do this, simplest is lein-ring automatically reloads your namespaces
18:32	chare	its setup to already auto recompile and reload?
18:32	gtrak	yes, seems that way
18:32	gtrak	though I never use this feature
18:33	gtrak	chare: you might have to be careful though, if you're not indirecting through a var in your handler, it's possible that old versions of code will still be live.
18:33	Raynes	gtrak: Are you saying that lein ring reload is a substandard lein-ring feature?
18:33	gtrak	Raynes: I eval.
18:34	gtrak	I don't let other eval for me.
18:34	gtrak	others*
18:34	chare	gtrak i don't understand what yo mean by var
18:34	gtrak	chare: depends on how you define your ring handler, somewhere you're passing something into a servlet or the jetty adapter directly, I forget what lein-ring expects.
18:35	cbp	~var
18:35	clojurebot	var is Passing xyz is passing its value around, #'xyz is short for (var xyz), passes a reference to xyz around. Whenever a reference is dereferenced, the current value is returned. It allows you do do things like dynamically updating code in the repl, change your ring routes, etc.
18:35	justin_smith	chare: #'handler points to the var (so it updates if you change the def) handler points to the value of the var, so does not update
18:35	gtrak	chare: I'm not sure of the implications to whatever you put in your project map, but that's how the impl probably works.
18:35	technomancy	Raynes: haha
18:35	aka	chare: alternatively you could do explicit reloading in repl (for example http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/2013/06/04/clojure-workflow-reloaded )
18:36	programmancer	I'm having some issues with datomic. Being completely new to it, I'm assuming I'm just not using it right: http://pastebin.com/yhwe5XZ2
18:36	gtrak	or just suck it up and eval everything manually :-)
18:36	programmancer	If anyone has some tips I'd be very happy.
18:36	Raynes	technomancy: Totally unoriginal.
18:36	gtrak	well, through some cider-hotkeys.
18:36	Raynes	It was someone else's idea ;)
18:36	gtrak	understand how the compiler works..
18:37	amalloy	Raynes: are you saying lein-ring is totally unoriginal?
18:37	aka	just blindly sucking it up can't always be good
18:37	Raynes	Yes.
18:38	hiredman	programmancer: midje is terrible, is likely our problem
18:38	hiredman	programmancer: your
18:38	programmancer	Oh.
18:38	koreth_	What's wrong with midje?
18:38	programmancer	What do you suggest instead, then?
18:38	aka	it's hard to pronounce first off
18:38	hiredman	programmancer: you aren't calling the function in the gist either
18:39	gtrak	aka: it gets better
18:39	hiredman	oh, I guess you are
18:39	hiredman	programmancer: I like to use clojure.test
18:39	coventry	programmancer: Do you get the same error if you call (add-card test-card) in the repl?
18:39	hiredman	koreth_: lots
18:39	programmancer	Let's see, coventry.
18:39	amalloy	programmancer: it looks like midje is trying to do some bizarro fiddling with metadata or something
18:42	aka	gtrak: you sound like my uncle
18:42	programmancer	hiredman, coventry, amalloy: everything works just well in the REPL.
18:42	programmancer	I suppose that settles my issue; don't use Midje.
18:42	gtrak	i might use something like 'component' on a future large project, but it's probably too much hassle to refactor the current one, and not really necessary for small ones.
18:42	amalloy	gtrak: large projects start out small
18:42	hiredman	programmancer: see if you still get the error if you dump the datomic results in to a clojure hash set
18:43	gtrak	amalloy: well, for the next thing that's intended to be a large project, I should say.
18:43	hiredman	(into #{} whatever)
18:43	gtrak	doesn't really happen to me very often :-)
18:43	aka	I'm converting a small project to component right now...
18:43	programmancer	I can't seem to reproduce the error at all in the REPL.
18:44	programmancer	Everything works like a charm there.
18:44	hiredman	sounds like typical midje wonkiness
18:44	programmancer	I suppose it's time to rewrite the tests for clojure.test.
18:44	programmancer	Are there other good testing libraries out there?
18:44	programmancer	clojure.test is certainly good enough, but some of the stuff Midje added was rather handy.
18:44	brehaut	generative testing
18:45	amalloy	clojure.test.check is fun if you don't mind relearning how to think about tests
18:45	programmancer	Yeah, I actually saw that on the clojure Github repo.
18:45	amalloy	ie, basically what brehaut just said
18:45	programmancer	It looked very interesting.
18:46	brehaut	programmancer: theres a great talk on generative testing from clojure/west 2014 by john hughes though he uses erlang
18:46	programmancer	There's no "known wonkiness" with that?
18:46	brehaut	programmancer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi0rHwfiX1Q
18:47	amalloy	programmancer: clojure's mocking support is...okay. midje goes kinda crazy adding more. it's better to build support for swappable implementations to begin with, eg with stuartsierra's component idea; and at that point clojure.test is fine - you don't really need any features more complicated than assert
18:47	programmancer	Thanks, brehaut. I'll queue that up for tomorrow (Danish time is approaching bed time)
18:47	aka	wonkiness is the worst
18:47	koreth_	The hard part with generative testing (sometimes prohibitively hard, IMO) is that you need to be able to programmatically specify what the correct output is. Sometimes that's easy and sometimes you practically end up doing a second implementation of the code under test.
18:47	amalloy	are all the clojure/west talks up already?
18:48	stuartsierra	amalloy: yes, Clojure on YouTube
18:48	rasmusto	danish time is the best time
18:48	amalloy	stuartsierra: sweet. it's amazing they got this done so fast
18:49	ianeslick\|onvaca	amalloy: it was done same day this time!
18:49	bbloom	amalloy: the videos were up within like ~12 hours, it was crazy
18:49	stuartsierra	amalloy: We paid $$$ to get same-day service from the videographers.
18:49	brehaut	amalloy: some were up hours after the talk happened. its amazing
18:49	brehaut	bloody lag
18:50	amalloy	yeah, i heard about some of the videos being up right away, but couldn't believe they were all up so decided it must be going up like one per day (even that would have been unbelievably fast)
18:50	programmancer	I now feel all kinds of excited about generative testing. I think I may have a regular addiction to new libraries.
18:50	amalloy	kudos to everyone involved
18:51	programmancer	Not that generative testing is really a library.
18:51	stuartsierra	Thanks due to Lynn Grogan and Alex Miller.
18:51	brehaut	koreth_: the hard part about non-generative testing is that its useless ;)
18:52	aka	I'm loving the clojure west talk videos.
18:52	koreth_	brehaut: That's quite a bold claim. Even John Hughes disagreed with that in his post-talk Q&A.
18:52	bbloom	koreth_: his disagreement was kinda funny/subtle though...
18:52	brehaut	koreth_: note emoticons
18:53	bbloom	he discussed a serialize/deserialize round-trip property and suggested that you could have that property while still being entirely useless
18:53	bbloom	suggesting that you need some example tests just to constraint the program to actually do something useful while preserving the round trip prperty
18:54	bbloom	one big example with all the possible interesting serializable/deserializable entities would be sufficient to constrain the code to do something useful, then generative testing could do all the rest of the work from there
18:54	rootex	stuartsierra: does having the questions included in the videos cost more?
18:54	bodie_	anyone comfy with CIDER?
18:55	brehaut	~anyone
18:55	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
18:55	stuartsierra	rootex: I don't understand the question.
18:55	bodie_	I'm trying to do a substring history search in an attached repl.
18:55	rasmusto	stuartsierra: I think he's talking about the Q&A after each session
18:55	noprompt	is anyone else seeing "ERROR: JSC_PARSE_ERROR. Parse error. syntax error at ..." with the newest version of cljs.
18:55	bodie_	however, every search I do matches against ^<search term>, so I'm not able to do substrings.
18:56	bodie_	example: "(definst foo ... " is a previously entered repl command.
18:56	bodie_	I want to do a reverse search on "efin" and match that entry.
18:57	bodie_	however, that's obviously not a clojure question, nor even an emacs question -- it's a plugin included in Emacs Live, which I guess is popular with some Clojure users.
18:57	stuartsierra	I had no part in actually hiring videographers, and I haven't watched the videos yet. I assume Q&A was included, but not all the talks had time for it. We ask speakers to repeat questions from the audience, but they often forget.
18:57	bodie_	so I wondered if anyone was familiar with that and willing to answer a somewhat verbose question before I dumped in here :)
18:57	rasmusto	The talks that I watched ended with the applause, right before the q&a
18:59	stuartsierra	More discussion about the Clojure/West videos https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure/NKrU3m-4HEo/discussion
19:00	technomancy	I remember some incredibly entitled whining about the schedule last time
19:00	technomancy	nice to see they should be shut up this time
19:01	bohford	lol whining??
19:01	lazybot	bohford: What are you, crazy? Of course not!
19:01	rootex	stuartsierra: yeah, what rasmusto said, I only watched 3 and they were cut off just before the Q&As
19:01	brehaut	rootex: one of them i saw didnt cut off so its not a policy. i wonder if the presenters didnt all repeat questions or something making the Q+A useless on video?
19:02	stuartsierra	Could have been. Again, I don't know anything. :)
19:03	stuartsierra	Q&A at a talk tends to be pretty useless anyway. :)
19:03	brehaut	“its not so much a question as a statement…”
19:04	amalloy	brehaut: most of the presenters were pretty good about repeating the question. the only one i remember who wasn't was the keynote
19:05	brehaut	amalloy: look at that; unfounded guessing turns out to be false
19:05	amalloy	i for one would never have guessed that
19:31	perplexa	A boy and a girl were sitting in a Java programming class together. He reached over and grabbed her breast. She said "Hey, that's private". He looked confused and said "I thought we were in the same class"
19:31	brehaut	stay classy perplexa
19:31	perplexa	:)
19:33	S11001001	perplexa: No.
19:34	antonv	hi all
19:34	bohford	yikes
19:34	gtrak	(dec perplexa)
19:34	lazybot	⇒ -1
19:35	rasmusto	,(pos? -1)
19:35	clojurebot	false
19:35	antonv	when code of the same namespace is distributed over several .clj source files, do you use (ns ... (require ...)) in every source file?
19:35	S11001001	antonv: absolutely
19:35	rasmusto	antonv: yep
19:35	antonv	this means you must copy/paste dependency list in every file?
19:35	gtrak	antonv: wat? each clj file should be a separate namespace unless you know what you're doing.
19:35	perplexa	what the heck is wrong with you guys :P
19:35	S11001001	antonv: the alternative is "spaghetti loading" and it's seriously confusing to read.
19:36	justin_smith	assumed you mean (ns ... (:require ...))
19:36	perplexa	(dec gtrak)
19:36	lazybot	⇒ 6
19:36	perplexa	;)
19:36	rasmusto	:use is really only OK for test namespaces and the like, where there's a 1:1 mapping
19:36	technomancy	perplexa: we're not like ... twelve?
19:36	S11001001	perplexa: As technomancy says.
19:36	perplexa	so humor is now an age thing, i see
19:36	antonv	gtrak: yes, that's what I assumed as alternative
19:36	gtrak	just because some things are possible, it does not mean they should be done :-)
19:37	S11001001	antonv: as for the dependencies, I think if you're separating out functionality, then your files will work out to need very different sets of :requirements.
19:37	antonv	gtrak: well I often use one nanespase for whole the system
19:38	turbofail	"humor"
19:39	brehaut	(inc gtrak)
19:39	lazybot	⇒ 7
19:40	coventry	Is it really so bad to make actual-namespace.clj a series (load "file.clj")s like clojure.core does, if actual-namespace.clj would be unmanageably huge? Keeping the (ns) forms straight across the different files sounds potentially just as confusing.
19:40	S11001001	coventry: Yeah, it's so bad.
19:40	amalloy	coventry: putting the same code into N different files doesn't make it less unmanageably huge in any magical way
19:40	antonv	S11001001: well, yes, separate functionality pieces placed in these different files have different dependencies
19:40	technomancy	coventry: plus it breaks slamhound
19:41	antonv	but as the dependencies are bound to namespace, and I wanted to use the same namespace...
19:41	coventry	technomancy: OK, that's compelling. :-)
19:41	amalloy	technomancy, always keeping the big picture in mind
19:42	technomancy	I like to think of it as imperative vs declarative, though in fact require is still fairly imperative
19:42	aka	whoa gorilla repl is neat
19:42	S11001001	antonv: If you wish to present to your library's clients a convenience "everything" namespace, there are other approaches; under these, one-namespace-per-file is still preferred.
19:42	coventry	"One namespace for the whole system" sounds like the core problem here.
19:43	antonv	OK, guys, thanks for confirming
19:45	antonv	Althoug, to ensure. Is it impossible to specify files load order in project.clj?
19:45	antonv	Then in the first file I would have (ns ... (require ...)) and in all the dependent files (in-ns ...)
19:46	CapitalSigma	hi all
19:46	cbp	CapitalSigma: hi
19:48	amalloy	antonv: files aren't loaded unless you ask for them
19:48	amalloy	when you (require 'foo.core), the file foo/core.clj is loaded
19:48	amalloy	if it loads other files, that's its responsibility
19:50	antonv	amalloy: ah... thanks
19:51	antonv	amalloy: so I can say (ns foo (require depA debB)) in one file and (ns foo (require depC)) in another file...
19:51	amalloy	i guess? i mean, i'm not thrilled with this whole multi-file namespace, but obviously that is a thing you can do
19:51	akurilin	Quick question: those of you running serving SPAs from your ring apps, how do you handle templating in the .js assets? Do you build a middleware that checks if the request is for a .js file and then you just pass the file through something like Selmer with a basic map of common interpolations?
19:52	antonv	amalloy: on the other hand require loads files using namespace to resource mapping, based on naming convention...
19:52	coventry	antonv: If you want everything in one ns for ease of loading / repl access or something, you can do something like this: https://github.com/coventry/troncle/blob/master/src/troncle/traces.clj#L174
19:52	antonv	amalloy: so I will have problems loading code from my files, because namespace doesn't correspond to fill name...
19:53	coventry	antonv: ... and that way, you can use namespaces as intended elsewhere in your project.
19:53	antonv	coventry: thanks for the link. No, I want namespace not for repl, but for easier coding....
19:54	coventry	antonv: Pretty sure you'll find that's a false economy as you go on.
19:54	antonv	coventry: it's not economy, just a habbit
19:55	antonv	I just came from Common Lisp, it is usually done that way there and it is supported by system definition facility
19:55	amalloy	coventry: that doesn't look like a very good implementation, fwiw. try putting the following into troncle.traces: (let [x 1] (defn foo [] x))
19:55	antonv	But I see now that leingen and clojure do not support this
19:55	antonv	OK
19:55	antonv	another quick question
19:56	antonv	nevermind
19:56	amalloy	if you use intern instead of eval/def, you avoid the problem
19:57	coventry	Thanks, amalloy. Good point.
19:57	amalloy	also, coventry, while i'm in there: (swap! a (constantly x)) is just (reset! a x)
19:58	antonv	still, quick question
19:58	coventry	Yeah, I've learned that one since I wrote it.
19:58	antonv	I see the default in clojure is to create public functions
19:58	CapitalSigma	i'm learning clojure and i have a potentially stupid question -- what's the point of having both a cons and conj operation? is either optimized for a particular situation?
19:58	antonv	and only with special sign (the minus) the functions become private
19:58	rasmusto	CapitalSigma: conj is collection-agnostic
19:59	amalloy	CapitalSigma: cons always builds a linked list, conj adds to an existing collection based on its type
20:00	rasmusto	,(conj #{} 'a)
20:00	clojurebot	#{a}
20:00	CapitalSigma	okay. is cons essentially a relic from lisp, then? i can't imagine why i would want to use a linked-list only function over a polymorphic one
20:00	rasmusto	,(cons 'a #{})
20:00	clojurebot	(a)
20:00	hiredman	,(doc cons)
20:00	clojurebot	"([x seq]); Returns a new seq where x is the first element and seq is the rest."
20:01	hiredman	(doesn't say anything about linked lists)
20:01	cbp	cons is for building seqs
20:01	antonv	do you guys care to hide design public/private interfaces between all these namespaces?
20:01	amalloy	CapitalSigma: because linked lists are amazing
20:01	technomancy	antonv: metadata is one good way
20:01	amalloy	you can build them and traverse them lazily, and they're cheap to put together
20:01	hiredman	~private
20:01	clojurebot	not even once
20:01	amalloy	(inc clojurebot)
20:01	lazybot	⇒ 39
20:02	bbloom	we need a word for "not private, but not promised"
20:02	CapitalSigma	ah, okay. the result of cons is guaranteed to be lazy? (sorry if this is basic -- i'm a former scheme-er going through the clojure koans)
20:02	technomancy	bbloom: ^:internal is what I use
20:02	cbp	CapitalSigma: no you need to wrap it inside lazy-seq
20:02	amalloy	that's a good point, hiredman. i guess it's not really a whole linked list, it's like one node prepended to something that knows how to act like a list (ie, a seq)
20:02	bbloom	technomancy: but that has some java/c#-ish meaning
20:03	bbloom	CapitalSigma: clojure has interfaces/protocols for sequences. clojure.lang.Cons, clojure.lang.PersistentList, etc implement the clojure.lang.Seq interface, which has first/rest
20:03	bbloom	CapitalSigma: ... and so does clojure.lang.LazySeq
20:04	CapitalSigma	okay. i'll start digging through the documentation then -- thank you
20:04	bbloom	~seqs
20:04	clojurebot	seqs is http://www.brainonfire.net/files/seqs-and-colls/main.html
20:04	bbloom	CapitalSigma: ^^ good reference
20:05	CapitalSigma	cool, thanks
20:06	cbp	CapitalSigma: (defn my-range [start] (lazy-seq (cons start (my-range (inc start))))) ; for an example
20:09	antonv	technomancy: hiredman: bbloom: I mean private as defn- does
20:09	bbloom	antonv: yeah, hiredman was suggesting not to bother
20:10	bbloom	antonv: technomancy and i were discussing the desire for "still private, but labeled as not part of the promised api"
20:10	bbloom	er i mean "still public, but..."
20:10	technomancy	antonv: the important thing is not that you prevent people from using your vars, but that you communicate that they're not part of a stable interface
20:11	bbloom	well said
20:11	technomancy	so the difference between ^:private and ^:internal is not all that important
20:11	technomancy	(defn- is shorthand for ^:private)
20:13	antonv	technomancy: by private I mean not visible in the user namespace, after you clojure.core/refere the my namespace
20:14	amalloy	right, he's telling you not to care so much about that, antonv
20:14	amalloy	or suggesting it, anyway
20:14	antonv	OK
20:14	antonv	thanks
20:36	akurilin	Does anyone know of an article/blog post/whatever out there explining the various options one has when wanting to share code across a few lein projects? It's my understanding that there's a sliding scale of how complex this can be made, from actually including the sources directly in each project to turning the shared code into separate .jar s
21:07	brehaut	is nashorn going to be viable target for cljs in the future?
21:08	hiredman	is it not one now?
21:08	brehaut	well, i dont know if anyone has pointed cljs at it yet
21:08	brehaut	i guess thats what i really meant though isnt it
21:08	chare	so to get something of the effect of rails asset pipeline i do what in clojure?
21:23	devn	Uncaught Error: No protocol method ReadPort.take! defined for type number: 23 hrm
21:23	devn	this is core.async and cljs -- what am i doing wrong here i wonder?
21:25	egghead	sounds like you are trying to: (<! 23)
21:27	devn	egghead: https://gist.github.com/devn/af570b702f68d31da704
21:28	devn	im taking this basically verbatim from http://swannodette.github.io/2013/07/12/communicating-sequential-processes/
21:29	egghead	ya nothing in that gist looks wrong
21:29	devn	I have a couple of go blocks putting onto c, and then i have a go block taking from c and logging
21:33	amalloy	devn: that error message looks like it's produced by code other than the code in your gist, really
21:37	devn	strange business
21:38	devn	because that's it verbatim, no foolin'
21:39	amalloy	restart your repl, restart your machine, reinstall your OS?
21:41	arrdem	amalloy: better zero your hard disk first
21:41	arrdem	amalloy: just to make sure no state persists
21:41	Raynes	Best to just replace it.
21:41	arrdem	better nuke from orbit... it's the only way to be sure
21:41	Raynes	Potentially shift to an alternate universe as well.
21:41	Raynes	To make sure all the bits are properly flipped.
21:42	Raynes	M-x butterfly only does one at a time.
21:42	arrdem	Raynes: I mean... the number of atoms in the universe is finite so we can just compute the inverse universe in O(N) time, right?
21:42	arrdem	better. we can do O(1)!
21:47	Frozenlock	seancorfield: You mentioned wanting to do some massive changes to congomongo on the mailing list. Is this still planed? Should I wait a new version before starting something new on it?
21:51	S11001001	Raynes: thanks to you mentioning that, I took another look at M-x butterfly, to find that if you answer no to the confirmation, it sends you to the cartoon. Convenient built-in bookmark for that particular xkcd entry.
21:54	brunov	Raynes: hey. Thanks for Ororo, I've been using it these past days
21:54	Raynes	:D
21:55	brunov	killer name
21:55	brunov	I added async support via httpkit in a fork, let me know if you'd be interested in such a change.
21:56	Raynes	I saw! Just hadn't gotten around to checking it out
21:56	brunov	yeah, I know how it goes. No rush.
21:56	Raynes	brunov: So could you give me an elevator pitch of what this gains ororo?
21:56	Raynes	I'm unclear on what 'added async support' means
21:57	brunov	Sure. So, with httpkit's asynchronous support, you don't block the caller whenever you do an HTTP request.
21:57	brunov	The function returns a promise
21:57	Raynes	Can't you just call an existing Ororo function wrapped in a promise? :P
21:58	Raynes	I'm assuming that's too easy
21:59	brunov	you could, but you'd have to manage the threads where those promises will have to be fulfilled though, right?
22:02	brunov	the word is delivered, not fulfilled, hopefully the point came across though
22:02	ivan	dang I can't unquote-splice one form into a key and value in a map
22:03	Raynes	brunov: Do you by chance have an example that would demonstrate the issue?
22:03	Raynes	Sorry if I'm being thick.
22:03	ivan	well actually I can if I'm unquote-splicing an even number of things
22:03	brunov	No, it's ok. And it's probably overkill for casual usage, since WUnderground's API is heavily throttled.
22:04	brunov	There is no actual issue.
22:04	brunov	It just so happens I just started a project that will leave our team to use one of the paid plans with higher limits
22:05	Raynes	Well if your team needs this feature then clearly it is important!
22:05	brunov	Haha, I wouldn't say 'need'.
22:05	brunov	We 'need' food :)
22:05	brunov	we don't 'need' async support in Ororo ;)
22:06	brunov	basically I'm trying ot avoid blocking a full OS thread per concurrent call if I ever need to have, say, hundreds of concurrent pending requests
22:06	brunov	Btw, this is way harder to justify than I though.
22:06	brunov	thought, even
22:06	S11001001	brunov: maybe you could use the Norwegian Meteorological Institute's feed? http://api.met.no/#english :)
22:06	Raynes	I can't recommend anything except for wunderground.
22:06	Raynes	They sent me swag for this library.
22:06	brunov	hahaha
22:07	brunov	S11001001: interesting, but I'm going to go with Raynes. It's pretty hard to beat their over 45k personal weather stations
22:07	brunov	we're talking full world saturation here
22:07	brunov	to the moon, etc.
22:07	Raynes	$weather the moon
22:07	Raynes	$conditions the moon
22:07	lazybot	Last Updated on March 31, 11:00 PM BRT; Clear; Dewpoint: 77 F (25 C); Precipitation today: 0.00 in (0.0 mm); Temperature: 79 F (26 C); Windchill: NA; Wind speed: 0mph; Wind gust: 0mph; URL: http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/82579.html.
22:07	Raynes	o_o
22:08	Raynes	Didn't see that coming.
22:08	brunov	haha
22:08	Raynes	So the moon is in Brazil I see.
22:08	Raynes	Exciting.
22:08	Raynes	(funfact: lazybot's conditions plugin is so smart it does not account for spaces in place names)
22:10	brunov	who needs spaces
22:23	Foxboron	25 celsius on the moon?
22:23	Foxboron	Well boys, summer have to arrive the moon at one point
22:23	Foxboron	at the moon*
22:44	rootex	what is the meaning of doing #_defn ?
22:44	rootex	err #_(defn ...
22:44	brehaut	#_ skipps the next form
22:44	brehaut	while reading
22:45	rootex	oh ok
22:45	brehaut	,[:a #_ :b :c]
22:45	clojurebot	[:a :c]
22:45	brehaut	,[:a (comment :b) :c]
22:45	clojurebot	[:a nil :c]
22:46	rootex	yeah, forgot about that comment thing
22:47	rootex	'form-level' comment
22:49	chare	how is apply implemented?
22:51	amalloy	chare: from clojure's point of view it's a language primitive, one that you couldn't implement without already having apply. are you interested in how it's implemented deep in the java guts of the compiler?
22:51	rootex	chare: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L619
22:51	chare	amalloy does that mean it counts as a special form?
22:51	amalloy	no, it's an actual function that you can pass to other functions
22:52	amalloy	kinda like +. it's a function, but it's also a primitive
22:52	chare	rootex does that mean applyTo is the one thats a primitive
22:52	rootex	amalloy: what about clojure.core/apply ?
22:53	amalloy	that's the function we're discussing, rootex. i mean, yes, obviously from one point of view that's a function implemented in clojure. but really it's just delegating to some java stuff
22:53	chare	what is applyTo?
22:54	amalloy	chare: when you define a function, with fn or defn or whatever, that creates an implementation of the java interface clojure.lang.IFn
22:54	amalloy	a method of that interface is applyTo
22:54	amalloy	which says "someone is trying to call this function, here is a list of the args they want to pass"
22:55	amalloy	so fn and defn implement applyTo for you in a way that dispatches to the right arity of your function, binds the appropriate variables, etcv
23:00	rootex	amalloy: is that a performance optimization? the multiple arities in the definition of apply
23:01	amalloy	yeah. clojure.core is full of nonsense like that
23:01	rootex	k
23:05	rootex	amalloy: so functions compile down to classes?
23:07	rootex	since you said fn or defn implements IFn
23:08	rootex	it most create a class to implement its methods
23:08	amalloy	i mean, this is the jvm. everything is a class at some point
23:10	rootex	amalloy: yeah, was wondering if each function has a class of its own or if they are all under some class per namespace or something
23:10	amalloy	each fn form compliles to a new class, with a method for each arity it supports. every fn object is an instantiation of that class
23:11	rootex	thanks
23:20	arrdem	anyone want an Atom code? I don't have a use for mine...
23:21	rootex	arrdem: you requested one?
23:22	arrdem	rootex: I expected them to not be reatarded and have a Linux build
23:22	rootex	:)
23:25	gwz	hey, is it possible to check in a if statement that a type is cons, is there anything like (if (cons? item)...
23:28	amalloy	gwz: seq?
23:28	gwz	yes
23:31	todd__	there is not a lot of chatting here
23:56	chare	how do i use a namespace a second on repl after changing the code