#clojure – 2014-03-30

2014-03-30

00:07	coventry	cddr``: Maybe something like (s/either (merge {:key1 (s/pred (partial = rval)), :key2 s/Any} other-requirements) (merge {:key1 (s/pred (partial not= rval))} other-requirements))
00:07	bjeanes	amalloy: is there a way to implement a protocol for java types such that they can be printed in a readable form?
00:08	bjeanes	like (URI. "the-url") ?
00:09	amalloy	bjeanes: i mean, you can add a print-method, but that's not actually readable: you have to run code to get '(URI. "x") to produce anything useful, whereas '[(x 1) (y 2)] is a value that the reader can produce
00:09	bjeanes	ah good point
00:09	bjeanes	well then... that is copy paste friendly :P
00:12	amalloy	like i said, print-method
00:19	gko	Can I do something like this: (def my-java-class String) then (new my-java-class "string") ?
00:19	gko	Unable to resolve classname
00:20	amalloy	no
00:21	gko	ok thanks
01:36	mskoud	Anyone coming from Haskell? Any thoughts on the tradeoffs?
01:49	anildigi_	hi guys..
01:50	anildigi_	Joy of Clojure or Joy of Clojure second edition?
01:50	anildigi_	Which book should I read?
01:55	bob2	second
03:03	devn	bob2: both
03:03	devn	anildigital: both
03:09	bob2	devn, why so?
03:16	chare	When is the clojure startup time going to get fixed?
03:18	Rosnec	chare: I was thinking about this today
03:18	Rosnec	the reason it takes so long is because of the bootstrap process
03:18	chare	oh good Rosnec you understand the details of the problem, so now we can unload and hound you until you fix it
03:18	Rosnec	if the compiler could somehow reduce the bootstrap rpocess to only what's necessary
03:19	Rosnec	it might be faster
03:19	Rosnec	idk if that's even possible though
03:19	Rosnec	it takes so long because it has to load clojure.core
03:19	chare	Rosnec does scheme and racket have slow startup time, if not WHY?
03:20	Rosnec	all of it, from what I understand
03:20	Rosnec	i dont know
03:20	Rosnec	I've only really used Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp outside of clojure
03:20	Rosnec	emacs lisp isn't really comparable
03:22	chare	its so messed up that clojure has the slowest startup time of the lisp dialects
03:22	chare	that is just WRONG
03:22	Frozenlock	With, or without the jvm started?
03:22	chare	jvm isn't the problem
03:23	Rosnec	the reason clojure takes so long is because the language has to be built from a small number of functions, written in java
03:23	Rosnec	and that happens every time you start clojure
03:23	Rosnec	although, if you have a repl running already, I bet you could make it faster somehow
03:23	Rosnec	I have no idea how
03:26	anildigital	devn: why both books?
03:56	scottj	chare: https://github.com/galdolber/clojurefast people are working on it
04:58	mercwithamouth	has anyone here used liftweb and thought about/experimented with a view first pattern with compojure?
05:16	ptcek	I am following omtut-starter and got stuck on om/build-all. I don't get the following snippet and it's output: http://pastebin.com/ZQZnij31 What I am overlooking?
05:58	chare	what do you guys think of the book "Web Development with Clojure" and the library choices it makes?
06:00	scottj	chare: be more specific. it has been well received.
06:02	chare	scottj ok so I'm not going to find out that ring,compojure,hiccup,noir,liberator is like the old obsolete way of doing things
06:04	scottj	chare: ring, compojure and hiccup are timeless. the others, who knows.
06:05	chare	what does that mean
06:05	dark_element	chare, noir has been discontinued but other than that rest of the things are not obsolete.
06:05	chare	wtf do you mean noir has been discontinued?
06:05	chare	the book uses noir and the book isn't that old!!!
06:05	dark_element	chare, read the first line. https://github.com/noir-clojure/noir
06:07	chare	oh I was calling lib-noir the name noir
06:07	chare	didn't realize there was two separate existing things
06:07	dark_element	chare, all good things from noir moved to lib-noir which can be used with compojure.
06:11	bob2	let's freak out without reading any details!
06:12	dark_element	heh. when in doubt rtfm.
08:05	martinklepsch	hey, I'm trying to parse something patents from the USPTO which look something like this: https://gist.github.com/mklappstuhl/df82f4846c4d97639be3
08:07	martinklepsch	parsing that w/ clojure.xml errs because clojure.xml apparently looks for the referenced dtd file — is there any way to not parse that dtd file?
09:30	paulswilliamsesq	hi all, has anyone any experience in stubbing webservice calls?
09:35	gfredericks	haha don't ##(update-in nil "some string" conj 2)
09:35	lazybot	⇒ {\s {\o {\m {\e {\space {\s {\t {\r {\i {\n {\g (2)}}}}}}}}}}}
09:46	luxbock	when benchmarking between Java and Clojure programs, should I be compiling my Clojure source into a jar to get a fair comparison, or can I simply use the REPL?
09:51	ptcek	luxbock: compile, nREPL is optimized for fast startup and may be slower when running...
09:53	luxbock	alright
10:08	paulswilliamsesq	Hiya, any Midje users here?
10:13	gfredericks	b
10:13	gfredericks	un-b
10:14	gfredericks	I just got a POC debug repl working as nrepl-middleware
10:15	gfredericks	you can call (break!) anywhere in your code, and it stops there and hijacks the repl so that all future entries get eval'd in that lexical context
10:15	gfredericks	you can call (unbreak!) to continue
10:15	gfredericks	and they nest perfectly well
10:15	modulus	Hi there. I've been wondering hat the recommended way to write web applications is in clojure, since I think noir is sort of not really developed anymore.
10:15	modulus	is luminus the best way forward?
10:21	btbngr	why is def- ommitted in clojure.core? it seems rather unsymmetrical to have to use metadata there.
10:24	AeroNotix	yeah.... I always think this
10:24	AeroNotix	perhaps it'll come one day
10:24	Bronsa	dont count on it
10:25	btbngr	I don't need to count on it, but. it's still silly.
10:25	gfredericks	a lot of folk deal with it by avoiding defn-
10:26	btbngr	but i like defn-. it's terse.
10:27	AeroNotix	gfredericks: why do you say that?
10:27	AeroNotix	There's plenty of reason for private vars
10:28	gfredericks	no I mean using ^:private
10:28	btbngr	(def ^{:private true} foo 6)
10:28	btbngr	(def- foo 6)
10:28	AeroNotix	gfredericks: oh you mean just use ^:private instead of defn-?
10:28	btbngr	why.. why would i want to type that? :)
10:28	gfredericks	(def ^:private foo 6)
10:28	AeroNotix	btbngr: fwiw you're making it sound worse
10:29	btbngr	:)
10:29	gfredericks	AeroNotix: yeah
10:29	btbngr	yes i am being a bit bit facetious. still.
10:30	AeroNotix	I
10:30	AeroNotix	I'm +1 on def- and defn-
10:30	luxbock	hmm, so I used `lein uberjar` and then ran the resulting file with java -jar ./target/<file>, but for some reason the performance is much worse than when I run it from nREPL
10:31	luxbock	I thought it would be faster
10:31	Bronsa	AeroNotix: adding def-/defmacro- & friends has been discussed a lot before, Rich and Stu's position is that it will never be added to core
10:31	AeroNotix	Bronsa: do you have a link to those discussions?
10:32	luxbock	in my -main I call (time (do-work n))
10:32	Bronsa	it's in the ml somewhere, let me search for it
10:32	AeroNotix	aight
10:32	btbngr	Bronsa: thanks. I'd be interested in the justification
10:32	luxbock	I know criterium would be better for more accurate benchmarking but the uberjar is running 10x slower than when I ran the function in nREPL
10:33	Bronsa	btbngr: if I remember correctly it was something among the lines of "we don't like private vars, so the more difficult we can make you make one, the better"
10:35	AeroNotix	Bronsa: but what's the justification for that?
10:35	btbngr	... that sounds like a justification based on a rather shakey premis.
10:35	btbngr	premise*
10:36	btbngr	well, rather than have poor Bronsa play devils advocate, let's read the discussion :)
10:36	Bronsa	found it
10:36	gfredericks	luxbock: does the function return a lazy seq?
10:36	Bronsa	btbngr: AeroNotix https://groups.google.com/d/msg/clojure/gNhz72JSIaw/41KAjI6fXQ4J
10:36	gfredericks	or anything that contains one?
10:37	btbngr	Bronsa: thanks
10:37	AeroNotix	Bronsa: thanks, /me reads
10:37	Bronsa	AeroNotix: there's not much to read
10:37	Bronsa	I don't know if there are more threads where this has been discussed in more detail but that's the only one I could find
10:38	AeroNotix	Bronsa: quite the circular logic in there
10:39	btbngr	yeah, that's really quite crap logic. I'm quite happy deprecating defn- in core and reshuffling the library about a bit to move it OUT of core. sigh
10:40	AeroNotix	Oh well
10:40	AeroNotix	it's not a huge pita
10:40	AeroNotix	But yeah, this is one of the few rough edges of Clojure
10:41	Bronsa	https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/clojure/r_ym-h53f1E/y1S31QXNhcAJ this conversation looks more interesting and offers a few points
10:42	btbngr	"generally there is not as much reason to use a constant, for example". Unless, y'know. you're using a map as a function, etc... :/
10:43	Bronsa	AeroNotix: btbngr tldr: a reasonable reason (sorry :)) for having no def-, is that in core there are a number of def* macros, def- would only cover one of those
10:43	btbngr	yeah, the namespace explosion part is reasonable. deprecate defn-! :)
10:44	btbngr	namespace? macro*
10:45	gfredericks	this is a good link to have on hand: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Why+Feature+X+Was+Declined
10:46	btbngr	More interesting is the "Compiler in Clojure" idea hammock. Is there a place I can find out more about how that is going?
10:47	Bronsa	btbngr: ahem I'm working on it
10:47	btbngr	I was just looking at 8700 lines of uncommented tree walking java dubbed the "Compiler" and became sad.
10:48	btbngr	Bronsa: hi! I would like to contribute when I have a bit more time!
10:49	Bronsa	btbngr: every contribution is welcome, right now the "CinC" project is split between a number of libraries: tools.reader, tools.analyzer, tools.analyzer.jvm and tools.emitter.jvm
10:50	paulswilliamsesq	Hiya, I've been trying to combine test a function that uses clj-http to query a restful service with Midje. I've managed to successfully stub a service call using sonian/cartridge in :use-fixtures, but not as a background in Midje. No exception is generated, the function under test is executed but no cartridge is created. Any pointers in where to look?
10:50	Bronsa	you can find them in the clojure organization page on github
10:50	AeroNotix	btbngr: just remember the draconian agreement you need to sign before you commit to Clojure.
10:50	zachmassia	Is there an easy way to produce [[1 2] [3 4] [5 6]] from [[1 2] [3 4]] and [[5 6]]?
10:50	btbngr	Bronsa: excellent, thanks very much. Yes, I shall mail off a signature to rhicky personally :)
10:51	Bronsa	gfredericks: I don't think it's that good :/ all I read there is "We might add a feature if it proves good enough. We decide when it's good enough." but doesn't tell you what "good enough" means
10:52	gfredericks	Bronsa: well I can't imagine any sort of explicit rule
10:52	Bronsa	I'd argue that update-in or seqable? would be more useful than say, same? but yet same? has been added to core and update-in/seqable? still live in the mostly forgotten core.incubator
10:53	gfredericks	update-in?
10:53	Bronsa	durr
10:53	Bronsa	dissoc-in
10:54	gfredericks	And I assume s/same?/some?/
10:54	Bronsa	.. yeah
10:54	Bronsa	I haven't slept much. It shows
10:57	ptcek	zachmassia: try this ##(concat [[1 2] [3 4]] [[5 6]])
10:57	lazybot	⇒ ([1 2] [3 4] [5 6])
10:57	zachmassia	ptcek: Awesome, thanks :)
10:59	gfredericks	Bronsa: I think I've come to the conclusion that any language design will be upsetting to at least 80% of its users
10:59	gfredericks	so I mostly just appreciate how powerful libs are and don't worry about what's in core as much except when it really can't be in a lib
11:00	luxbock	gfredericks:
11:00	luxbock	nope
11:00	btbngr	gfredericks: hey. it's lisp. smoothing over the bumps is what it does.
11:00	Bronsa	gfredericks: we agree, I was just nit-picking. Overall clojure.core does a pretty good job
11:00	AeroNotix	gfredericks: that doesn't really apply to Lisps
11:01	gfredericks	we need some mechanism for measuring upsetness over IRC
11:01	gfredericks	AeroNotix: what doesn't apply?
11:01	AeroNotix	gfredericks: languages features upsetting people
11:01	technomancy	Bronsa: the rule is if it's needed for datomic it goes in
11:01	technomancy	(how else do you explain uuid literals?)
11:01	gfredericks	technomancy: clojure.core is rhickey's utility library
11:01	AeroNotix	Which kind of is understandable, even if not quite perfect.
11:01	gfredericks	technomancy: I love the uuid literals
11:01	AeroNotix	gfredericks: lol
11:02	technomancy	gfredericks: I find them hilarious
11:02	btbngr	heh, yes, but he should really tidy up a bit. "where is it?" "it is all in the desk draw. ALL OF IT."
11:02	gfredericks	technomancy: I use them all the time at work
11:03	technomancy	gfredericks: you use them to name your libraries?
11:03	gfredericks	lein new #uuid "dce6bfa3-fa9b-4cfb-9579-05f2fa1a0026"
11:03	Bronsa	lol
11:04	technomancy	using your gherkin-based shell
11:04	gfredericks	most of these arguments boil down to "X is useful" "no it isn't" "I hate you"
11:06	btbngr	yes but CL throw everything in a single namespace... now look.
11:06	btbngr	threw*
11:06	technomancy	well, uuid literals are pretty awesome compared to the only other reader literal that ships with clojure
11:06	btbngr	deprecate symbols!
11:07	technomancy	as reader literals go, they're better than average.
11:09	technomancy	gfredericks: are uuids as strings prevalent enough in your system that you see significant memory savings by switching to uuid objects?
11:09	gfredericks	technomancy: the literal itself is fine, it's the default reader you're offended by
11:09	gfredericks	technomancy: do you like using dates as strings too?
11:09	technomancy	gfredericks: I'd take it over j.u.Date any day
11:09	gfredericks	compared to e.g. Joda
11:10	gfredericks	it's not just memory savings; I like the semantics of it
11:14	gfredericks	presumably also time savings when comparing
11:16	technomancy	but yeah, it's not that I find them silly on their own; just the way they are bundled with clojure and were used to introduce the concept of reader literals themselves is weird.
11:16	technomancy	plus the fact that reader literals make the reader unsafe even with read-eval off makes me sad
11:26	gfredericks	unsafe in that reading edn can cause any code that you explicitly set up to run?
11:28	technomancy	no, I mean the actual reader is unsafe to run on user-provided code due to reader literals
11:29	hyPiRion	technomancy: well, only the reader literals you've provided, right?
11:29	technomancy	hyPiRion: no, an attacker could run arbitrary constructors
11:29	upwardindex	,(ProcessBuilder. “ls”) ;; No matching ctor?
11:29	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ?ls? in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
11:30	hyPiRion	technomancy: with edn or the clojure reader?
11:30	technomancy	hyPiRion: with clojure.core/read
11:30	Bronsa	technomancy: that's because of the record literals, not because of tagged literals
11:30	hyPiRion	right, that's always funny
11:30	technomancy	Bronsa: oh right; sure. in my mind they're closely intertwined.
11:32	Bronsa	well record/deftype literals are at all effects read-time constructor invocators..
11:32	Bronsa	I wonder why they weren't limited to IRecord/IType constructors
11:32	technomancy	filed under "weird stuff I don't see the point of"
11:32	Bronsa	that would solve most issues
11:32	andyf_	G'day, folks. Good to see the channel topic version number updated.
11:34	andyf_	Bronsa: Thanks for the heads up on tools.analyzer changes. By any chance, do you keep a list of Clojure compiler vs. t.a(.jvm) behavior differences somewhere (besides in your head)?
11:35	Bronsa	technomancy: yeah, I don't think I have ever used a record literal in code, but it's definitely nice that they print that way
11:35	yedi	does console.pprint or something exist for cljs
11:35	Bronsa	andyf_: no and I should really write one
11:36	andyf_	I guess TANAL tickets and email you sent to Mr. Baldridge would be a start.
11:36	Bronsa	that and some actual documentation :/
11:36	yedi	inspecting complex maps in cljs is a pain
11:36	andyf_	After Tim's talk, we should ask whether he is willing to write the docs :-)
11:37	andyf_	I'll file a ticket adding a link to his talk to the README
11:37	Bronsa	good idea
11:39	technomancy	Bronsa: yeah, I just wish it used read-eval behind the scenes so there could be a way to keep it safe
11:39	gfredericks	technomancy: does this apply to clojure.edn?
11:39	Bronsa	technomancy: doesn't some read-eval value affects the record literal too?
11:40	Bronsa	I don't remember, I thought there was something for that
11:40	gfredericks	,(defrecord Phil [])
11:40	clojurebot	sandbox.Phil
11:40	gfredericks	,(Phil.)
11:40	clojurebot	#sandbox.Phil{}
11:40	gfredericks	,(clojure.edn/read-string "#sandbox.Phil{}")
11:40	clojurebot	#<ClassNotFoundException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.edn>
11:40	Bronsa	,#sandbox.Phil{}
11:40	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Record construction syntax can only be used when read-eval == true>
11:40	gfredericks	,(require 'clojure.edn)
11:40	clojurebot	nil
11:40	Bronsa	there
11:40	gfredericks	,(clojure.edn/read-string "#sandbox.Phil{}")
11:40	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: No reader function for tag sandbox.Phil>
11:41	Bronsa	https://github.com/clojure/tools.reader/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/reader.clj#L617
11:41	Bronsa	gfredericks: I don't think edn has record syntax
11:42	gfredericks	so this really only applies to things like eval services that are probably already conscious of read-eval
11:54	gfredericks	oh speaking of inconsistencies with def macros -- apparently defonce doesn't even take a docstring
11:56	bodie_	anyone have a recommendation for a /really great/ clojure book?
11:56	bodie_	I have probably 15 years of experience programming, just never used a functional language
11:56	gfredericks	I've never heard a single bad thing said about the oreilly book
11:58	modulus	joy of clojure seems ok to me
11:59	btbngr	yeah it's not bad
12:01	gfredericks	I think this debug repl thing is going to actually work
12:01	wink	joy of clojure is good, but not sure it's a good first clojure book
12:01	ambrosebs	gfredericks: what's that?
12:02	gfredericks	ambrosebs: an nrepl-middleware I'm building; you call (break!) and it essentiall transfers your repl to the breakpoint
12:02	gfredericks	essentially
12:02	ambrosebs	sweet
12:03	gfredericks	it's turning out only moderately haxy, which is a lot less than I was expecting
12:03	gfredericks	already supports nesting
12:09	gfredericks	most of the haxiness is around having multiple nrepl sessions but letting the client pretend there's just one
12:10	gfredericks	since I don't think clients tend to support the idea of the server opening new repls for them
12:12	yedi	is there something like a print-let, that pretty prints all the binded vars when theyre made
12:14	gfredericks	don't think so
12:26	plaeremans	Hello there I would like to fork clojure.java.jdbc, do some modifications and produce a pull request, what is the best way to this wit a leiningen project ? I would like to test my modified version first ?
12:27	plaeremans	but can i modify that project and test it in another one, without recompilation
12:28	andyf_	plaeremans: If it is important to modify your local java.jdbc without recompiling it, and test it using a different Leiningen project, Leiningen has a 'checkouts' directory you can put your modified java.jdbc into
12:29	plaeremans	cool
12:29	andyf_	But modifying your local copy of java.jdbc and doing 'lein install' into your local Maven repo is pretty quick and easy, too, and then the other project you use to test it just needs to use the same version number as your locally-installed copy.
12:30	plaeremans	andyf, ok but I would love to remove the roundtrip time of that
12:30	plaeremans	than i don't have to restart my repo to test the modifications
12:30	ambrosebs	plaeremans: java.jdbc patches much go through Jira http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/JDBC
12:30	plaeremans	database connections to test it with is configured in anther project
12:31	ambrosebs	plaeremans: also you need a Clojure CA http://clojure.org/contributing
12:31	andyf_	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7411326/clojure-lein-how-do-i-include-source-from-another-directory-in-my-project has some Q&A, and a link to the Leiningen docs on checkouts
12:31	gfredericks	https://github.com/fredericksgary/debug-repl
12:31	plaeremans	@andyf_ thanks, the ticket is already there : JDBC-64
12:31	plaeremans	But I fought I could implement it myself and submit a pull request
12:32	plaeremans	It will probably be rejected if I get to it
12:32	plaeremans	but when I do and there is feedback I'll learn something
12:32	andyf_	You can submit a patch with tests without having sent in a Clojure CA first, but the patch cannot be incorporated into java.jdbc without Clojure core folks having that on hand.
12:32	plaeremans	oh yes I forgot about that
12:32	andyf_	Pull requests will definitely be rejected.
12:33	andyf_	Sean Corfield might be willing to give you feedback either way, depending upon his interest level and time available.
12:33	andyf_	But it becomes more interesting for him if you have the CA submitted, and there is a chance your changes might make it in.
12:34	plaeremans	Why will pull requests be rejected isn't that the way to contribute code ?
12:34	plaeremans	I see on the clojure website that patches should be submitted via jira
12:35	andyf_	For Clojure itself, Rich Hickey prefers to review patches rather than pull requests. He says it is an easier workflow for him.
12:35	andyf_	For other Clojure libraries, I think there is the desire to make the process consistent across them.
12:39	Rosnec	so I have a question about conventions
12:39	Rosnec	say there's a variable, foo, within the scope I'm working in
12:40	Rosnec	and I have some map that I want to destructure
12:40	Rosnec	and that map has a value :foo
12:40	Rosnec	I want to preserve both foo's
12:40	Rosnec	what's the conventional way of doing so?
12:40	Rosnec	I know I could do (let [old-foo foo, {:keys [foo]} m] ...)
12:41	Rosnec	is there a better way?
12:41	Bronsa	no other way if you want to use :keys
12:41	stcredzero	So, am I right in assuming that atoms that never experience thread contention are very low overhead?
12:42	Bronsa	Rosnec: what you could do however is (let [{foo' :foo :keys [..]} map] ..)
12:44	stcredzero	Also, is there any overhead that comes from having too many atoms in memory at once? (In order to assure no threads are contending for that atom)
12:45	Rosnec	Bronsa: so you're saying just use :keys for everything but :foo, and specify what to call :foo?
12:45	Rosnec	I guess that makes sense
12:45	Bronsa	yeah
12:46	Rosnec	is there a way I could use :keys and have a prefix added to everything?
12:46	Bronsa	no
12:46	Rosnec	ok
12:51	bbloom	stcredzero: atoms use simple compare and swap
12:52	bbloom	stcredzero: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Atom.java
12:53	bbloom	stcredzero: the overhead is essentially that of an AtomicReference, which has JIT support for producing machine primitives for atomic CAS
12:58	stcredzero	bbloom: cool. So that means there's little overhead, even in the face of thread contention.
12:58	bbloom	stcredzero: essentially, yes
13:01	Anderkent	stcredzero: the overhead when thread contention is high will probably come from repeatedly rerunning the update function, rather than the compare-and-set
13:12	shiranaihito	anyone know what this is about: "IllegalAccessError: Key does not exist" when i try to require "Key" like this: "[c2d.localization :refer [Key]]" ?
13:13	shiranaihito	("Key" is a record in "localization.clj")
13:13	bbloom	shiranaihito: records aren't vars
13:13	bbloom	shiranaihito: for example:
13:14	bbloom	,(defrecord Point [x y])
13:14	shiranaihito	hm
13:14	clojurebot	sandbox.Point
13:14	bbloom	,#'Point
13:14	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Expecting var, but Point is mapped to class sandbox.Point, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
13:14	bbloom	see?
13:14	shiranaihito	so how do i "import" it then? :P
13:14	bbloom	you can refer with the ->Foo factory method
13:14	bbloom	,(->Point 5 10)
13:14	clojurebot	#sandbox.Point{:x 5, :y 10}
13:15	bbloom	if you need the class object for instance? or something like that, you can use a fully qualified name (after requiring the namespace) or you can (i think) use :import like any other java class
13:15	shiranaihito	hmm
13:16	shiranaihito	what does it mean to "refer with factory method"?
13:16	ambrosebs	Bronsa: do you do anything fancy working with 2 tools.analyzer repos simultaneously?
13:16	ambrosebs	worth the pain?
13:16	bbloom	shiranaihito: (:require your.code :refer [->Foo])
13:16	bbloom	(doc ->Point)
13:16	clojurebot	"([x y]); Positional factory function for class sandbox.Point."
13:16	shiranaihito	oh.. and then i can do (Foo. x) ?
13:17	bbloom	shiranaihito: #'->Foo is a var that simply calls new Foo with the same arguments
13:17	bbloom	so just do (->Foo x)
13:17	shiranaihito	ok.. well, somehow i find (Foo. x) neater :P
13:18	shiranaihito	so i guess i'll try importing it
13:18	bbloom	shiranaihito: they are different
13:18	bbloom	consider:
13:18	bbloom	,(apply ->Point [5 10])
13:18	clojurebot	#sandbox.Point{:x 5, :y 10}
13:18	bbloom	,(apply Point. [5 10]) # no good!
13:18	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: Point., compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
13:18	shiranaihito	hmm
13:18	bbloom	,(apply #(Point. %1 %2) [5 10]) # gotta do this
13:18	clojurebot	#sandbox.Point{:x 5, :y 10}
13:19	shiranaihito	aww.. i can't seem to import it
13:20	bbloom	(doc import)
13:20	clojurebot	"([& import-symbols-or-lists]); import-list => (package-symbol class-name-symbols*) For each name in class-name-symbols, adds a mapping from name to the class named by package.name to the current namespace. Use :import in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly."
13:20	bbloom	,(import 'sandbox.Point)
13:20	clojurebot	sandbox.Point
13:20	bbloom	seems to work
13:21	Bronsa	ambrosebs: I'm sorry I was having dinner
13:22	ambrosebs	:)
13:22	Bronsa	ambrosebs: do you mean for dev or when releasing?
13:23	ambrosebs	Bronsa: releasing mainly
13:23	ambrosebs	Bronsa: with dev I assume you can connect them up in a repl somehow
13:24	Bronsa	ambrosebs: the only thing I need to do special is to bump the tools.analyzer dep from SNAPSHOT to whatever I just released before releasing tools.analyzer.jvm
13:24	Bronsa	and then moving it back to SNAPSHOT after the release
13:24	ambrosebs	ok
13:24	shiranaihito	bbloom: "ClassNotFoundException: c2d.localization.Key" .. :o
13:24	shiranaihito	ohh.. that quote there
13:24	ambrosebs	I'm splitting up core.typed and I'm up to 6 repos. Need to figure out something easier than that.
13:24	bbloom	shiranaihito: did you (:require [c2d.localization]) first?
13:25	Bronsa	ambrosebs: eh 6 repos might be a pain
13:25	shiranaihito	bbloom: ah, nope.. damn, this is too complicated
13:26	bbloom	shiranaihito: the ns form is complicated/silly for sure, but the underlying mechanisms are quite simple. you're missing the key thing: when you define a type, a java class is prodcued and so is a factory function
13:26	bbloom	shiranaihito: classes work just like any other class, the factory function works just like any other clojure var
13:26	shiranaihito	mmm
13:26	Bronsa	ambrosebs: also when dev I need to remember to mvn install locally tools.analyzer before e.g. reloading a repl so that it pulls the last snapshot
13:26	shiranaihito	now it's working but Cursive still shouts about importing "Key" :P
13:27	bbloom	shiranaihito: the one complication is that classes defined by clojure code are created at runtime, so they don't exist until the namespace they are in is loaded
13:27	shiranaihito	:/
13:27	bbloom	shiranaihito: remember, clojure's compiler is actually going to run your namespace file. so you can't possibly import a known java class until you load that file
13:27	bbloom	shiranaihito: does that clear it up?
13:27	shiranaihito	yeah, that makes sense
13:28	shiranaihito	thanks for the help! :)
13:28	bbloom	shiranaihito: also, you probably shouldn't have this problem :-P
13:28	ambrosebs	Bronsa: right. there's no way you could do that manually with 6 repos.
13:28	bbloom	shiranaihito: you should create a real public api
13:28	shiranaihito	how so? :P
13:28	bodie_	any preferred setups? I guess slime/emacs is out of style?
13:28	bbloom	shiranaihito: don't treat the class itself as part of your interface promise. instead provide a type predicate function and a smart factory function
13:28	bbloom	shiranaihito: for example, going with the Point record example:
13:28	shiranaihito	bbloom: well, i'm just using "Key" as a marker for an error returned from a validation function etc
13:28	ambrosebs	Bronsa: I'm finding the separation very valuable, so I'll see how I go on my machine for a while
13:29	bodie_	i was looking at lein + lighttable but it looks like it uses an outdated version of Clojure.
13:29	shiranaihito	(and then checking instance? etc)
13:29	bbloom	,(defn point? [x] (instance? Point x))
13:29	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: Point in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
13:29	bbloom	doh, timed out :-P
13:29	bbloom	,(defrecord Point [x y])
13:29	clojurebot	sandbox.Point
13:29	bbloom	,(defn point? [x] (instance? Point x))
13:29	clojurebot	#'sandbox/point?
13:29	bbloom	,(defn point [x y] (Point. x y)) ;TODO: add preconditions to ensure x and y are numbers
13:29	clojurebot	#'sandbox/point
13:30	shiranaihito	hmm
13:30	bbloom	shiranaihito: now later you can just do: (:require whatever :refer [point point?])
13:30	amalloy	bodie_: there's a good clojure plugin for most editors. emacs has a great one, if you already like emacs; i hear vim's is quite good as well; and eclipse, etc etc
13:30	shiranaihito	well, that makes sense but seems like extra typing
13:30	scottj	bodie_: what editor/IDE do you use for most other programming? use that
13:31	bbloom	shiranaihito: you should be defining so few new types that this extra typing is a marginally small cost in the general case
13:31	Bronsa	ambrosebs: maybe there's some plugin for lein to manage multiple repos
13:31	shiranaihito	bbloom: mmm.. luckily i haven't gone crazy with Records yet :p
13:32	amalloy	shiranaihito: bbloom's suggestion gives you more flexibility, too - you don't have to stick with the Point record if you decide you need some other data associated with them
13:32	shiranaihito	hm
13:32	amalloy	like, maybe a point holds, as well as its x/y coordinates, a cache of distances to other points. that's easy to add onto the point function without changing its args
13:32	amalloy	but you'd have to add a new arg to the Point constructor to hold it
13:32	shiranaihito	you mean the "factory method" allows for flexibility if/when needed?
13:33	ambrosebs	Bronsa: true. unsure if I want to maintain 6x pom.xml and 6x project.clj's.
13:33	shiranaihito	yep
13:34	shiranaihito	well, fiddling with the imports and stuff is so annoying that maybe i'll just write those "extra" functions.. although it doesn't feel very "feng shui" for now :P
13:34	ambrosebs	I'll play it by ear
13:42	elfenlaid	ehm, kind of silly question :) who knows where source of "`" function can be found or how it called properly? under properly I mean, for example, ' is called quote :)
13:43	ambrosebs	elfenlaid: it's called syntax-quote
13:43	ambrosebs	elfenlaid: grep for that in the Java sources
13:44	elfenlaid	wow, thanks
13:44	ambrosebs	elfenlaid: good luck :)
13:49	doky	hello is here anybody how understands http-kit ?
13:50	doky	i want to know to to redirect a request ? it said that follows Ring spec but it can not redirect ... ? does anybody know how to do that?
13:53	rberthel	there is a redirect in ring.util.response/redirect
13:56	doky	yes i added it to project, but it didn't redirects
14:02	Bronsa	elfenlaid: you can read https://github.com/clojure/tools.reader/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/reader.clj#L521 for an implementation from scratch that mimicks the one used by clojure itself or https://github.com/brandonbloom/backtick/blob/master/src/backtick.clj for an alternative implementation
14:03	bodie_	amalloy, scottj -- i'm a vimmer but interested in getting into emacs live programming, kinda the lighttable setup via emacs if possible :)
14:03	bodie_	I saw some cool stuff with emacs tree manipulation that took me by surprise
14:05	elfenlaid	Bronsa, that's interesting, thanks :)
14:08	bbloom	elfenlaid: the backtick readme also links to my blog which might have some insight in to why/how
14:09	elfenlaid	bbloom, heh, clojure community is awesome!
14:11	whodidthis	doky: return {:status 302 :headers {"Location" "/coolplace"}} in handler
14:13	doky	thanks it worked also with ring redirect, i did silly mistake but thanks for response :)
14:39	stcredzero	Anderkent: are you saying that function call overhead is much larger than atom cmp-set overhead?
14:41	bbloom	stcredzero: he's saying that the function you give to swap! should do as little work as possible, but no less than necessary
14:42	stcredzero	bbloom: In other words: "optimize" -- or to be more specific, the duration of the swap function should be short as possible if there may be thread contention
14:44	bodie_	emacs/clojure newb here, any pointers? I'm looking at CIDER
14:44	bodie_	cool articles the community loves that I'm unaware of... etc
14:44	bbloom	stcredzero: based on past discussions and your current line of questioning, i'll be very explicit: do NOT optimize here. you'd be wasting your time in a big way
14:45	bbloom	stcredzero: if you have a very expensive operation, don't use swap! on a shared atom, since cheap operations may beat you and force you to restart the operation
14:46	stcredzero	bbloom: so expensive operations are ok on a non-shared atom (or while an atom is only being molested by a single thread)
14:47	bbloom	stcredzero: i'd probably have chosen a nicer way to say that, but yes.
14:47	bbloom	stcredzero: the principle is simple: get-value, perform function, compare-and-set. if value changed during those steps, compare fails, retry
14:49	bbloom	obviously if "perform function" takes too long, other operations can consistently prevent your comparison from passing, forcing you to retry indefinitely
14:49	stcredzero	bbloom: so changing around one's architecture to ensure that predominantly only single threads are going after one atom tends to be good
14:49	bbloom	stcredzero: absolutely not.
14:50	stcredzero	bbloom: you seem to be contradicting yourself
14:50	bbloom	stcredzero: no, no i am not
14:50	bbloom	stcredzero: i've been very clear in my guidance each time we've spoke
14:50	bbloom	you are prematurely optimizing without measuring in a big way
14:50	bbloom	i'm explaining the principles to you so that you know what to look for
14:50	bbloom	... when you measure
14:51	stcredzero	did you talk to me previously under a different name?
14:51	bbloom	atoms are designed to be used by many threads simultaneously
14:51	bbloom	stcredzero: most recently we discussed pmap
14:52	bbloom	you can have dozens of threads hammering on an atom and it will outperform any lock-based solution with ease
14:52	bbloom	but, as the name "atom" suggests, it's designed for atomic operations
14:52	bbloom	and atomic is a carefully chosen word, meaning both "small" and "indivisible"
14:52	stcredzero	bbloom: you have no idea what I am and what I'm not measuring
14:53	bbloom	stcredzero: if you get defensive again, i'll stop offering my help
14:53	stcredzero	bbloom: keep in mind that I'm trying to devise a new kind of architecture and I'm not necessarily trying to use these devices for their usual purpose
14:54	bbloom	stcredzero: if you're trying to abuse the constructs, then you're probably better off using the java.util.concurrent bits that underly them
14:54	stcredzero	How about this: your help is very valuable when you talk about the performance of the components. But beyond that, you tend to jump to conclusions and get preachy.
14:54	bbloom	ok, i'll shut up then
14:55	stcredzero	bbloom: in other words: please continue to provide insight about the components, but stop >speculating< about what it is I'm doing.
14:56	stcredzero	bbloom: you have been wrong almost every time
14:58	bbloom	stcredzero: i'm not saying that this is true about you in person, but you should be aware that the way you write here in irc gives off a very hostile tone. at the conference, somebody said "so how about that pmap thing in irc" and there were several respected folks who expressed disbelief in the way you conducted yourself. if that was unintentional, you should be aware of it and adjust accordingly
14:59	bodie_	freenode #clojure is a great place to have personal arguments
14:59	bbloom	bodie_: my apologies. stcredzero: happy to discuss privately if you wish to understand/correct. i'll refrain from discussing publicly further
15:00	stcredzero	about the pmap thing: we were taling past each other because you kept saying things that were untrue about what I am designing, because you are speculating about what I am doing. I find that people contradicting me like that comes off as condescending
15:01	bodie_	not trying to be an ass, just saying. hehe. :)
15:01	bbloom	bodie_: no no, you're right
15:02	bbloom	bodie_: thank you
15:02	bodie_	I applaud your mature response... I probably would've said something like "NO U!"
15:02	konr	How can I find out which Protocols an object implements?
15:03	bbloom	bodie_: mature+blunt is a fine line :-P
15:03	amalloy	konr: not possible in general
15:03	amalloy	the information about protocol implementation is stored on the protocol itself, so you'd have to iterate over all existing protocols
15:08	tomjack	I was going to ask "how do I write clojure.core.async/map" in more complicated terms, then I found it :)
15:09	`szx	has anyone had a chance to play around with https://github.com/galdolber/clojure-objc and/or can tell me how viable it is?
15:09	`szx	just thought i would ask before diving in
15:24	munderwo	Hi all. Im playing around with Aleph, and am running into some issues. This is what I have so far https://www.refheap.com/69070 . Now when I curl at the server after running "lein ring server-headless" I get 'clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: core$handler' .
15:25	munderwo	If I run (start-http-server handler {:port 8080}) from the repl it works. But obviously something im doing is not passing the right parameters into the handler. Any ideas?
15:30	amalloy	munderwo: line 14 is calling (handler) with zero arguments
15:30	amalloy	you just want handler, not (handler)
15:31	munderwo	amalloy: ahhh!
15:31	munderwo	facepalm!
15:39	munderwo	hmmm. I'd like to use lein-ring . But it seems there is a mismatch between what aleph provides with its start-http-server and what lein-ring wants.
15:40	munderwo	Has anybody uses these two together?
15:40	munderwo	this is what I have in my project.clj. https://www.refheap.com/69075
15:41	munderwo	when I try use 'lein ring server-headless' and do a request I get 'clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: server$start-server$fn'
16:15	TravisD	Does anyone know if incanter has a multiple-argument version of $join? Or do I need to write one myself using reduce?
17:27	kuppu	Hi #clojure
17:55	Rosnec	how is it possible that I can run my program without errors using "lein run", but if I try to compile it to a jar, I get a NullPointerException when trying to compile one of my files?
17:56	Rosnec	it's happening at the very first line of one of my files, and it's a file that was working well when I just did "lein run"
18:06	yotsov	Rosnec: adding gen-class to the ns declaration maybe?
18:07	Rosnec	the ns doesn't have :gen-class
18:07	Rosnec	I should have mentioned that, yotsov
18:07	Rosnec	my core.clj has :gen-class, but this is a different file
18:08	Rosnec	ohhh
18:08	Rosnec	I think I might have found it
18:08	Rosnec	or maybe not...
18:08	Rosnec	no, that wasn't it
18:09	Rosnec	I found an import to something I removed
18:09	Rosnec	but that was in a different file anyway
18:11	yotsov	Rosnec: something to do with a BOM on windows maybe? first-line issue brings this association...
18:12	Rosnec	nope, running linux
18:23	hiredman	Rosnec: check all your calls to io/resource, one of them is returning nil
18:23	hiredman	(or paste bin the whole stacktrace for the npe)
18:26	Rosnec	here's my stacktrace
18:26	Rosnec	http://pastebin.com/8knb7y0L
18:26	Rosnec	i dont know how to show past the "and 49 more"
18:27	Rosnec	I mean "... 49 more"
18:27	jeremyheiler	Rosnec: stack traces are backwards, the 49 more are the lines above
18:27	Rosnec	oh
18:28	Rosnec	so that actually is the whole stack trace?
18:28	Rosnec	I always thought it just got clipped of at a point
18:29	hiredman	Rosnec: put (:refer-clojure :exclude [send]) in your ns form
18:29	Rosnec	oh
18:29	Rosnec	is that really it?
18:29	Rosnec	I thought it was just a warning
18:30	Rosnec	I knew there was something like that I needed to get rid of the warning
18:30	Rosnec	aand it compiles now
18:30	Rosnec	lol
18:30	Rosnec	well I won't make that mistake again
18:30	hiredman	I am not sure, there are some bugs ragarding overriding the vars from clojure.core and aot compiling
18:31	jeremyheiler	yeah
18:31	jeremyheiler	oops
18:31	jeremyheiler	(wrong room)
18:32	kuppu	Would anyone be able to help me understand the difference between a vector and a list?
18:32	kuppu	"lists are used for code and vectors for data". What's that supposed to mean?
18:32	brehaut	$seen dnolen
18:32	lazybot	dnolen was last seen quitting 6 weeks and 6 days ago.
18:32	Rosnec	you write your source code with lists
18:33	Rosnec	(+ 2 2) is a list with the elements + 2 and 2
18:33	Rosnec	if you want a list of data instead, use vectors
18:33	kuppu	Hmmm
18:33	Rosnec	say you want to store a bunch of (x, y) pairs
18:33	kuppu	Yeah
18:34	Rosnec	you should have them in vectors [x y]
18:34	Rosnec	or some other kind of seq
18:34	hiredman	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1392
18:34	Rosnec	but if you're going to literally write out the elements
18:34	Rosnec	you should do it with a vector
18:34	kuppu	Alright, let me digest this for a bit haha
18:34	Rosnec	so don't do this: '(x y)
18:34	Rosnec	do this: [x y]
18:35	Bronsa	Rosnec: more specifically http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1241
18:35	Rosnec	hiredman, Bronsa: thanks
18:36	Rosnec	good to know it's a bug and not me being stupid
18:36	hiredman	well, aot compilation is full of that kind of stuff, best to not do it
18:36	kuppu	Rosnec: thanks for the help :)
18:37	Bronsa	.. or we could juxt fix it
18:37	Rosnec	yeah, lol
18:37	Rosnec	unless you're saying aot is just not ready for use yet
18:38	hiredman	Bronsa: go a head, given that aot is rarely (if ever) required I've got another things to do :)
18:39	Rosnec	it makes launching your program faster, once it's compiled
18:39	hiredman	even if that issue is fixed, aot compilation still generates classes files for transitive namespaces, which can break things, and once you fix that, the aot'ed class files still won't be abi compat with different version of clojure
18:40	hiredman	etc etc
18:40	Rosnec	I'm mainly just doing it because I'm writing a client/server program, and if I don't AOT compile on one machine, I have to compile on both machines every time I run it
18:41	hiredman	I am not sure the current aot should be "fixed" maybe it should be redesigned and replaced
18:41	hiredman	Rosnec: no you don't
18:41	Rosnec	it's quicker to make a jar and scp it than to push to git, pull on the server, and use "lein run" on both sides
18:41	hiredman	ugh
18:41	Rosnec	is there an easier way?
18:41	hiredman	don't use git for deployments
18:41	hiredman	don't stick jars in git
18:41	Rosnec	I'm not sticking jars in git
18:41	hiredman	don't use lein run to run your servers
18:42	Rosnec	then what do I use?
18:42	jeremyheiler	Rosnec: package your clojure code in a jar (it doesn't need to be aot compiled) and run it with java -jar
18:42	hiredman	on your build machine use lein uberjar (which doesn't require aot compilation) then use java -jar the-uber-jar.jar clojure.main -m your.main.namespace to run it
18:42	Rosnec	I'm using lein uberjar
18:43	Rosnec	actually, I think i set the :aot option in my package.clj without really thinking about it
18:43	hiredman	-m will look for a -main method, like gen-class uses, but -m doesn't require aot compilation
18:43	Rosnec	no wait, I didn't set the :aot option at all
18:44	Rosnec	then why is lein uberjar doing aot?
18:44	hiredman	Rosnec: :main (in some versions of lein) implies :aot
18:44	Rosnec	oh
18:44	Rosnec	I think I read that before
18:44	hiredman	because :main sets the main class in the jars manifest, and for their to be a class there needs to be aot
18:45	Rosnec	ah
18:46	hiredman	there
18:46	danielszmulewicz	seancorfield: ping
18:47	Bronsa	hiredman: meh. if there's a bug we should fix it regardless.
18:48	technomancy	or just fix your code so you don't get that warning
18:48	Bronsa	also that bug is not really specific to AOT, try to eval (let [] (def inc #(+ 1 %))) in your repl
18:49	technomancy	AOT causes all kinds of problems in development, but it's perfectly appropriate to do during deployment as long as you don't shadow core vars like it tells you not to do
18:49	technomancy	and as long as you start afresh every time
18:49	Bronsa	the only real bugs that I encountered that are AOT specific are ClassLoader related
18:50	hiredman	Bronsa: there are bugs and there are hazzards
18:52	hiredman	Bronsa: the transitive compilation is a real problem if you have an aot'ed app that you then want to use as a library in another app, but that other app needs to specify a different version of some library the first depends on
18:53	hiredman	which if the library is backwards compatible should be fine, but because of transitive aot compilation, you'll have two versions of the library on the classpath
18:54	hiredman	these are all problems I've run into at work in the past two weeks
19:12	bodie_	i noticed the lein plugin for lighttable is using an outdated version of clojure
19:12	bodie_	I was going to try and set up everything around lighttable but now I'm not so sure
19:16	brehaut	i may well be wrong, but i dont think the version of clojure lein uses impacts the version you use in your own program
19:16	michaniskin	bodie_: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/light-table-discussion/FnM4lwYA2eI
19:17	michaniskin	sorry disregard :/
19:20	bob2	lein by default invokes a new jvm for your app
19:38	munderwo	Hi all. So I want to turn this vector [0 1 2 3 4] into {:0 0 :1 0 :2 0 :3 0 :4 0}
19:38	munderwo	so far I have (map #(assoc (keyword %1) 0 temp) [0 1 2 3 4])
19:38	munderwo	which gives me ({0 {}} {0 {}} {0 {}} {0 {}} {0 {}})
19:40	bjeanes	munderwo: you might want to use (reduce) with an initial empty {}
19:41	bbloom	,(into {} (map (juxt keyword identity) [0 1 2 3 4]))
19:41	clojurebot	{nil 4}
19:42	bjeanes	,(reduce #(assoc (keyword %2) 0 %1) {} [0 1 2 3 4])
19:42	clojurebot	{0 {0 {0 {0 {0 {}}}}}}
19:42	bbloom	hm
19:42	bjeanes	er.. lol nope
19:43	bbloom	,(into {} (map (juxt (comp keyword str) identity) [0 1 2 3 4]))
19:43	clojurebot	{:0 0, :1 1, :2 2, :3 3, :4 4}
19:43	bjeanes	except munderwo wants the value to always be 0
19:43	bjeanes	so not identity
19:43	bbloom	bjeanes: oh, i misread. shrug juxt constantly is getting ugly :-P
19:44	bbloom	,(into {} (map (juxt (comp keyword str) (constantly 0)) [0 1 2 3 4]))
19:44	clojurebot	{:0 0, :1 0, :2 0, :3 0, :4 0}
19:44	bbloom	but better:
19:44	amalloy	munderwo: why do you want (keyword "0") as your key? just 0, the number, would be the usual thing
19:44	bbloom	,(into {} (for [x [0 1 2 3 4]] [(-> % str keyword) 0]))
19:44	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: % in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
19:44	bbloom	,(into {} (for [x [0 1 2 3 4]] [#(-> % str keyword) 0]))
19:44	clojurebot	{#<sandbox$eval259$iter__260__264$fn__265$fn__266$fn__267 sandbox$eval259$iter__260__264$fn__265$fn__266$fn__267@8ed62> 0, #<sandbox$eval259$iter__260__264$fn__265$fn__266$fn__267 sandbox$eval259$iter__260__264$fn__265$fn__266$fn__267@18f143> 0, #<sandbox$eval259$iter__260__264$fn__265$fn__266$fn__267 sandbox$eval259$iter__260__264$fn__265$fn__266$fn__267@18790d7> 0, #<sandbox$eval259$iter__260__2...
19:45	bjeanes	yikes
19:45	bbloom	ok i'll stop coding in irc, i'm bad at it :-P
19:45	munderwo	umm.. It might be through ignorance? I want it to be a counting mechanism for a list of things that I have. So I can inc :0 when the zeroth element gets used etc.
19:45	bjeanes	hahah clojurebot accepts PMs I just realized
19:45	bbloom	,(into {} (for [x [0 1 2 3 4]] [(-> x str keyword) 0]))
19:45	clojurebot	{:0 0, :1 0, :2 0, :3 0, :4 0}
19:45	bbloom	there we go :-P i suck.
19:45	bjeanes	I'm too lazy to use a repo so apparently clojurebot just became my private repl
19:45	bjeanes	s/repo/repl
19:45	bbloom	munderwo: you can simply use numbers as keys... this isn't javascript! :-)
19:46	munderwo	ahh ok. didnt realise that :)
19:46	bbloom	munderwo: also, if your keys are a dense indexes, you can just use a vector as a map directly
19:46	bjeanes	but at that point why are you using maps?
19:46	bbloom	,(update-in [0 0 0 0 0] [2] inc)
19:46	clojurebot	[0 0 1 0 0]
19:46	bjeanes	yes that
19:46	munderwo	Yeah. I just like maps I guess :)
19:46	munderwo	cool. well i've learnt two things today :)
20:20	chare	Do you guys use lib-noir for validation even though using the following functions result in code based on side effects not pure functions [noir.validation :refer [rule errors? has-value? on-error]]
21:30	DomKM	,(str (char 0))
21:30	clojurebot	"
21:30	DomKM	,(= "" (str (char 0)))
21:30	clojurebot	false
21:30	DomKM	why?
21:30	clojurebot	http://clojure.org/rationale
21:31	DomKM	heh, I didn't realize clojurebot responded to "why?"
21:31	jeremyheiler	,(count (str (char 0)))
21:31	clojurebot	1
21:31	nightfly	why not?
21:32	DomKM	Why is "" not email to (str (char 0))?
21:32	DomKM	gah, I'm tired. Not equal to
21:32	jeremyheiler	because empty is different than something that isn't
21:32	jeremyheiler	the char 0 is not a displayable character
21:32	jeremyheiler	so it appears empty in a repl
21:33	DomKM	jeremyheiler: ah, got it. Thanks
21:34	AmandaC	Java Strings can contain embedded nulls, so I assume that Clojure ones can too. so (str (char 0)) is presumably making a string of length 1 with a null as the sole char
21:36	DomKM	How can I filter invalid chars ( (char 0), (char 1), etc. ) from valid chars ( (char 42) )?
21:38	kuppu_	Whoa, there's a clojure bot that runs clojure code?
21:38	jeremyheiler	DomKM: You can filter based on char ranges, whcih you can identify by looking at an ascii chart. Though, perhaps you could explain why you want to do that in the first place?
21:40	DomKM	jeremyheiler: Thanks, that's what I'm doing now. I'm using LevelDB and need to be able to pick a larger char to set an end point for an iterator.
21:41	jeremyheiler	what do you mean by larger? higher integer value? also, compared to what?
21:42	DomKM	jeremyheiler: Yes, higher integer value, I believe. LevelDB sorts keys in lexigraphical order
21:45	amalloy	DomKM: in that context i don't see why you would care about the difference between (char 1) and (char 42). both work fine as a byte value that you can use as the endpoint for an iterator
21:46	DomKM	amalloy: I suppose that's true. Hadn't considered that, thanks.
21:55	startling	can I use a type from defrecord in Java?
21:58	brehaut	startling: i think yes but maybe requires some AOT shenanigans?
22:29	amalloy	startling: yes, but as brehaut says you have to AOT your stuff. plus, records aren't a ton of fun to work with from java anyway. consider whether you can instead produce an interface containing the methods that java folks would care about, and then provide a way to get instances of that interface
22:30	startling	amalloy, that's possible.
22:30	gfredericks	amalloy: you are gooder at answering this question than I am
22:30	startling	What I'm trying to do is
22:30	gfredericks	,(doc definterface)
22:30	clojurebot	"([name & sigs]); Creates a new Java interface with the given name and method sigs. The method return types and parameter types may be specified with type hints, defaulting to Object if omitted. (definterface MyInterface (^int method1 [x]) (^Bar method2 [^Baz b ^Quux q]))"
22:30	amalloy	gfredericks: nahhhhhh, just include a Foo.java file in src/java and let lein build it
22:30	amalloy	definterface is a compromise that just makes the clojure guys and the java guys sad
22:30	startling	have some Java code return a clojure-native data-structure rather than a Java one, since that's a little bit nicer.
22:31	startling	(I'm writing some Java to interact with a Java library).
22:31	amalloy	startling: they can just use clojure.lang.RT/map to build a map. it doesn't have to be a record
22:34	amalloy	or you can provide a clojure function that builds whatever datatype you want, from args that are convenient in java, if building a map from scratch is too hard
22:34	startling	amalloy, that's not a great solution; I'm using a defrecord since I'd like do dispatch on types.
22:34	startling	amalloy: hm, that's possible.
22:35	amalloy	really, using a record's constructor as part of a public API is tacky, even in clojure (see: bbloom's discussions earlier today)
22:35	amalloy	put a function in between and you're more flexible and more convenient
22:37	startling	that's a good point. thanks!
22:45	gfredericks	tools.nrepl has a good readme
22:45	gfredericks	(inc cemerick)
22:45	lazybot	⇒ 16
23:20	luxbock	any help appreciated: http://codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/45796/translating-cfrm-algorithm-from-java-to-clojure-improving-performance
23:25	amalloy	luxbock: use a profiler, figure out where the time is being spent, and then focus on that area
23:26	luxbock	what's a good profiler to use?
23:27	milinda	I am using a priority-map inside a atom
23:28	milinda	but it type got changed in after couple of swap! calls
23:28	milinda	anyone has any idea what can go wrong here
23:32	bbloom	milinda: have you tried modifying your swap! calls to print out their inputs/outputs or the classes of their inputs/outputs?
23:35	milinda	bbloom: looks like the content of atom becomes nil in the middle
23:36	milinda	bbloom: I'll check whether this is a big from my side
23:39	milinda	bbloom: it was a bug in my code. Missing else. Thanks!
23:41	chare	what does {::file (file (str (io/resource-path) "/home.html"))} do in https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9884811
23:59	amalloy	well, ::file is a keyword, namespaced in the current namespace. so it returns a one-element map, whose key is :liberator.whatever/file, and whose value is a File object returned by file