#clojure – 2014-01-14

2014-01-14

00:02	logic_prog	is there a way to run clojure on go ?
00:06	egghead	clojure on the go
00:15	TEttinger	logic_prog, there might be some project that could, but it seems like it wouldn't really be optimal if Clojure on C isn't close to mature yet, and that's a way bigger use case
00:31	arrdem	bitemyapp: well it coulda gone worse... there was interest in a follow up.
00:31	arrdem	logic_prog: the real constraint with something like a clojure in C is that you loose so much of Clojure and unless you allow access to C primitives (scary shit!) you don't really win...
00:32	arrdem	logic_prog: such a compiled Clojure is very much something I'm intrigued by, but I'm convinced that it'd just be a better Lisp, not really Clojure.
00:32	arrdem	that said I don't really think CLJS is Clojure for the same reasons...
00:32	arrdem	</rant>
00:39	logic_prog	arrdem: Understood. Thanks.
00:48	arrdem	logic_prog: that's what Rust is for :D
00:48	logic_prog	arrdem: rust is a lisp
00:49	logic_prog	?
00:49	arrdem	logic_prog: nah it's another C like with more safety gurantees
00:49	arrdem	logic_prog: I wish it was a lisp :P
00:49	noonian__	http://www.rust-lang.org/
00:59	quizdr	yes
01:53	danielcompton	I'm trying to do nested destructuring but am not sure how to do use :keys on anything but the innermost form
01:53	danielcompton	I want to turn https://www.refheap.com/23624
01:53	danielcompton	into an expression where I don't need to specify name :name on the outer form
01:54	danielcompton	Can anyone help?
01:59	maravillas	danielcompton: do you mean like https://www.refheap.com/23625 ?
02:00	danielcompton	maravillas thats it. Thanks!
02:00	maravillas	welcome!
02:01	danielcompton	How would you do a third level?
02:01	TEttinger	maravillas, change m to book, btw
02:02	TEttinger	just ran it, it does work with that change. fast work
02:02	TEttinger	(inc maravillas)
02:02	lazybot	⇒ 1
02:02	maravillas	oh yeah, caught that. thanks :)
02:03	maravillas	danielcompton: if you wanted to destructure further into :details, you'd just add whatever's appropriate to the {:keys [pages isbn-10]} form
02:05	danielcompton	How would I do https://www.refheap.com/23626 ?
02:06	danielcompton	I think I've almost got it
02:06	maravillas	cover should be in a vector
02:07	TEttinger	yeah, cover in [cover]
02:07	danielcompton	Great!
02:07	danielcompton	I think it clicks now
02:07	maravillas	:)
02:07	danielcompton	Thanks TEttinger and maravillas
02:07	TEttinger	argument destructuring is great, no prob
02:07	maravillas	np
02:08	danielcompton	(inc maravillas) (inc TEttinger)
02:08	lazybot	⇒ 1
02:08	TEttinger	haha
02:08	TEttinger	I think that may have...
02:08	TEttinger	$karma maravillas) (inc TEttinger
02:08	lazybot	maravillas) has karma 0.
02:08	TEttinger	hm
02:08	danielcompton	(inc TEttinger )
02:08	lazybot	⇒ 1
02:08	danielcompton	Thats better
02:08	TEttinger	what happened to my karma???
02:08	lazybot	TEttinger: How could that be wrong?
02:09	TEttinger	oh haha
02:09	nones	$karma maravillas
02:09	lazybot	maravillas has karma 1.
02:09	maravillas	maybe it doesn't trim spaces?
02:09	TEttinger	$karma TEttinger
02:09	lazybot	TEttinger has karma 11.
02:09	TEttinger	$karma TEttinger
02:09	lazybot	TEttinger has karma 11.
02:09	TEttinger	hm
02:09	nones	$karma alhimik45
02:09	lazybot	alhimik45 has karma 0.
02:09	TEttinger	$karma TEttinger )
02:09	lazybot	TEttinger has karma 11.
02:09	TEttinger	no idea
02:09	arrdem	TEttinger: .... what are you doing.
02:09	TEttinger	what did it add the karma to?
02:10	TEttinger	sorry for spam
02:10	arrdem	TEttinger: I was just surprised is all..
02:11	TEttinger	I tried it with trailing spaces, apparently the bot has a weird parse thing
02:11	TEttinger	I know it allows multi-word incs
02:12	TEttinger	I also am fairly sure that it needs to be done in-channel because at least one of the bots keeps some data specific to a channel
02:12	yuri_niyazov	What is the canonical location for the current documentation of clojure?
02:12	TEttinger	like how clojurebot now only allows def'd forms in the same channel
02:13	TEttinger	probably the API on the site. clojuredocs is out of date
02:14	yuri_niyazov	is this what everyone uses: http://clojure.github.io/clojure/index.html
02:14	yuri_niyazov	?
02:14	TEttinger	http://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.core-api.html I think
02:14	TEttinger	oh yeah you're right
02:15	TEttinger	but it doesn't have the examples for unchanged or earlier-made parts of clojure that clojuredocs has
02:15	TEttinger	like the github.io page has reduced , clojuredocs doesn't
02:15	chare	hi guys
02:15	chare	remember me?
02:16	TEttinger	hi chare
02:16	arrdem	technomancy: so normally I wouldn't bother you, but chord is back for more.
02:16	TEttinger	I believe you were making a starcraft-like game?
02:16	chare	I gave up on that
02:16	arrdem	technomancy: see char
02:16	chare	I started learning Erlang
02:16	TEttinger	oh boy
02:17	chare	whats wrong with Erlang?
02:17	chare	its functional just lik eclojure
02:17	TEttinger	yes, I just have never seen it used
02:17	arrdem	http://i.imgur.com/p8gOKbv.jpg
02:17	TEttinger	can't be of much help
02:18	TEttinger	s/^/I /
02:18	chare	so does that mean you guys are jealous that I spend the effort to learn new languages and you guys don't
02:20	TEttinger	I wouldn't describe myself as jealous of you, no
02:21	chare	what have you guys been up to in my absense
02:21	andyf	gen-interface forms throw exceptions if you expand them twice (part of a defprotocol expansion). Are there any other known Clojure forms that have similar ill effects when exanded twice?
02:22	andyf	expanded*
02:22	TEttinger	I wonder if macroexpand can expand itself
02:23	arrdem	TEttinger: yep... shouldn't do anything tho.
02:23	andyf	It can, but macroexpansions of function calls are just the function calls
02:24	chare	lets talk about Datomic are you guys familiar with it?
02:31	chare	so thats a no?
02:54	bitemyapp	arrdem: back
02:54	bitemyapp	crazy fun type theory meetup :)
02:55	chare	shit I just got banned from #python for claiming that clojure > python
02:56	bitemyapp	chare: are you that starcraft dude?
02:56	chare	what does that mean
02:56	bitemyapp	there was some troll coming to this channel asking people to write a starcraft clone for him
02:56	bitemyapp	chare: are you him?
02:56	chare	I gave up on that
02:57	bitemyapp	ah, you are him
02:57	bitemyapp	new nick to ignore, cool.
02:57	chare	I got bored of starcraft
02:57	chare	i didn't change my nick
02:57	arrdem	bitemyapp: dude
02:57	bitemyapp	arrdem: what?
02:57	arrdem	bitemyapp: my drow streak is getting silly
02:57	bitemyapp	arrdem: mumbur.
02:57	arrdem	bitemyapp: bedtime.
02:58	bitemyapp	arrdem: dammit. Wanted to do a game before going to bed, type theory meetup was awesome!
02:59	chare	what do you guys think of linear typing
02:59	arrdem	bitemyapp: sweet! yeah this 1am 2am shit is getting old already... I'm considering some sort of electronic vaccation until I've gotten in a sane school swing...
02:59	arrdem	bitemyapp: much as I enjoy fivemanning with you and quiggles et all.
03:00	bitemyapp	arrdem: fair nuff.
03:00	chare	arrdem tell bitemyapp to unignore me please
03:14	AeroNotix	is there any integration with `lein check' and emacs already? Or is it something I should write?
03:18	andyf	I don't know of anything, but haven't looked. Seems like M-x next-error would be easily customizable for that.
03:24	AeroNotix	ok
03:26	ivan	these names don't make a whole lot of sense https://github.com/dakrone/cheshire#decoding
03:26	ivan	(first (cheshire/parsed-seq rdr)) to read JSON from a file with a reader
03:28	_eric	I have a (def) that just calls (System/getenv "VAR") and I'd like to override what it is in a test
03:28	_eric	is that reasonable and is there a simple way to do it?
03:39	clgv	eric: if it were wynamic you could rebind it with `binding`
03:39	clgv	*dynamic
03:41	Glenjawork	this is an odd question, but if i were trying to model a normalised data-model in memory (similar structure to an RDBMS) - would refs be a reasonable option?
03:41	clgv	Glenjawork: sure.
03:42	Glenjawork	can you do circular structures?
03:43	Glenjawork	ie, user1 is a ref containing a map, where one key is score1, and score1 is a ref containing a map where one key is user1
03:43	clgv	not with the immutable/persistent values within the refs
03:44	Glenjawork	ah ok, so because refs are mutable you can't put them inside refs?
03:44	clgv	for building a circular structure you'll always need the indirection through a ref (when transactions are required, otherwise atoms work as well)
03:44	Glenjawork	right, so i could model each "table" as a map in a ref
03:44	clgv	Glenjawork: no. you can put refs into other refs
03:45	clgv	that would be an option.
03:45	Glenjawork	this is probably a bad idea, but we have a specific calculation our mysql DB is terrible at
03:45	clgv	first options that come to my mind: (1) whole database in ref, (2) each table in a ref, (3) each row in a ref
03:46	clgv	with different implications on scalability
03:46	Glenjawork	so we're considering writing something that can efficiently do this bit, without having to change the entire app onto a new db
03:46	clgv	Glenjawork: other DBs like PostgreSQL are no option?
03:46	AeroNotix	what's the best way to abort compilation in macros? I see some of the standard library uses assert-args.
03:46	Glenjawork	maybe
03:47	Glenjawork	but any DB is a black box
03:47	clgv	if you use jdbc anyway that would not be a complex change
03:47	Glenjawork	and potentially we want a white box
03:47	clgv	ok
03:47	Glenjawork	we don't even use clojure at the moment
03:48	Glenjawork	but if i want to calculate something atomically with high concurrency, it seems like a good fit
03:48	clgv	AeroNotix: assert-args just throws an exception
03:48	AeroNotix	clgv: so I'll just throw IllegalArgumentException or something?
03:49	clgv	AeroNotix: yeah. for a useful exception you should include line and file information to help the user
03:49	AeroNotix	clgv: cheers
03:49	Glenjawork	or it might be a dumb idea
03:49	Glenjawork	i'm not sure yet
03:49	Glenjawork	if there's an optimised FRP toolkit somewhere that might be a good fit as well
03:49	Glenjawork	as i only want to update dependant data
03:50	clgv	Glenjawork: you can search the ML for FRP - there were several discussions about it. but I don't remember whether there is a mature library yet
03:50	Glenjawork	its annoying, this dataset/calculation really shouldn't be that hard
03:51	Glenjawork	it's just a 1million person league table
03:51	AeroNotix	Glenjawork: and you're sure you've written the most optimized query available?
03:51	clgv	the bottlenekc is mysql right now?
03:51	Glenjawork	the bottleneck is a combination of current schema and mysql
03:52	Glenjawork	the bottleneck used to be data transfer between DB and app
03:52	Glenjawork	so we do all the work in the app
03:52	Glenjawork	and it maxes out one core
03:52	Glenjawork	but if i make it use more than one core, i need multiple connections and lose atomicity
03:52	Glenjawork	all the work in the DB even
03:53	clgv	you'd have transactions in the db as you'd have with clojure's ref
03:53	Glenjawork	i assume i can use reducers within a ref transaction
03:53	AeroNotix	MySQL has transactions Glenjawork, that's kind of the point.
03:53	Glenjawork	so i'd expect better parallelisation
03:53	Glenjawork	at the moment i can't make it use more than 1 core without losing atomicity
03:54	Glenjawork	unless maybe i do a table rename
03:54	Glenjawork	the query is (pseudo-sql) UPDATE score (select sum(score) from guess group by user)
03:57	Glenjawork	hrm, all the FRP things i find are about UI
04:01	clgv	Glenjawork: simple building blocks for FRP are the watch functions you can have for refs and atoms
04:02	Glenjawork	modelling rows as refs and using watch functions might work nicely
04:02	Glenjawork	although i guess thats equivalent to normalising my schema more, so perhaps it should do that first
04:02	Glenjawork	s/perhaps it/perhaps i/
04:03	clgv	Glenjawork: I'd go for optimal schema and query first. if that is not sufficient you can use a real db like postgresql ;)
04:04	Glenjawork	yeah, that'll be a fun chat with ops
04:04	Glenjawork	we technically have a bunch of oracle licenses too
04:04	clgv	well then maybe oracle since you probably have experts for it as well then
04:04	Glenjawork	on the face of it that query looks like it should parellise perfectly
04:06	Glenjawork	anyway, cheers for the input
04:06	Glenjawork	lots more thinking to do :)
04:17	sm0ke	is there a better way to do, ##(get-in {:a {:b {:c 1}}} [:a :b :c]); than this
04:17	lazybot	⇒ 1
04:18	bitemyapp	AeroNotix: InnoDB has transactions
04:18	bitemyapp	AeroNotix: MySQL/MyISAM do not.
04:21	AeroNotix	bitemyapp: ;)
04:21	fredyr	sm0ke: i think thats it, what else do you have in mind?
04:22	AeroNotix	sm0ke: -> ?
04:22	AeroNotix	->> ?
04:22	sm0ke	yea but not if keys are non keywords
04:23	sm0ke	i think map should take more than one argument
04:23	sm0ke	,({:a {:b {:c 1}}} :a :b :c)
04:23	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: PersistentArrayMap>
04:23	sm0ke	like that
04:23	sm0ke	,({:a {:b {:c 1}}} :a)
04:23	clojurebot	{:b {:c 1}}
04:24	AeroNotix	sm0ke: make a macro
04:25	sm0ke	also how do i find max in [[1 2 4] [3 5 1] [3 4 6]]
04:25	AeroNotix	sm0ke: flatten+max?
04:25	sm0ke	what?
04:25	clojurebot	what is cells
04:26	sm0ke	heh
04:26	sm0ke	[1 2 4] sensibly is lesser than [1 2 1]
04:26	sm0ke	i am talking about tuple comparison
04:26	AeroNotix	why?
04:26	clojurebot	why is Why
04:26	AeroNotix	clojurebot: because
04:26	clojurebot	Excuse me?
04:27	AeroNotix	you heard me!
04:27	sm0ke	sorry
04:27	sm0ke	[1 2 1] < [1 2 4] i meant
04:27	AeroNotix	Sure
04:27	sm0ke	,(< [1 2 1] [1 2 4])
04:27	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
04:27	pyrtsa	,(< (compare [1 2 1] [1 2 4]) 0)
04:27	clojurebot	true
04:28	Glenjawork	what does 0 mean?
04:28	jonathanj	,(compare [1 2 1] [1 2 4])
04:28	clojurebot	-1
04:28	pyrtsa	(compare a b) returns -1 if a<b, 0 if a=b, otherwise 1.
04:28	Glenjawork	oh right
04:28	sm0ke	ok so ##(max-key #(< (compare %1 %2)) [[1 2 4] [3 5 1] [3 4 6]])
04:28	lazybot	⇒ [[1 2 4] [3 5 1] [3 4 6]]
04:28	jonathanj	how does compare actually compare two vectors?
04:29	sm0ke	what the..
04:29	squidz	does anybody know if there is a way to get lein to recompile the project when other source files change within the 'src' folder? I have a clojurescript project and have javascript files and want to get leiningen to recompile the clojurescript on change. Anybody know how to do this?
04:29	pyrtsa	But... Word of warning: Clojure does not define sequence comparisons as lexicographical. Instead, the shorter is considered smaller. :(
04:29	sm0ke	squidz: lein-reload
04:29	jonathanj	isn't that the same as Python?
04:29	pyrtsa	jonathanj: Lexicographical ordering would be the best definition.
04:30	pyrtsa	(compare [1 3] [1 2 4])
04:30	pyrtsa	,(compare [1 3] [1 2 4])
04:30	clojurebot	-1
04:30	pyrtsa	,(compare [1 2] [1 2 4])
04:30	clojurebot	-1
04:30	pyrtsa	,(compare [1 1 1 1] [1 2 4])
04:30	clojurebot	1
04:31	sm0ke	ok this is weird
04:31	pyrtsa	jonathanj: Python does it lexicographically.
04:31	jonathanj	so you probably need to have a better definition of what it means to compare two vectors, given your software's domain
04:31	pyrtsa	I'm just saying what might probably be a sensible default.
04:31	amalloy	pyrtsa: well, clojure compares vectors the way that python compares tuples
04:32	pyrtsa	Of course, by-count comparison is faster if the count is known.
04:32	amalloy	which is different from the way it compares lists
04:32	pyrtsa	amalloy: No it doesn't!
04:32	amalloy	it does
04:32	amalloy	>>> (5) < (1,2) ## => True
04:32	sm0ke	ok so ##(max-key (partial compare [0 0 0]) [[1 2 4] [3 5 1] [3 4 6]])
04:32	lazybot	⇒ [[1 2 4] [3 5 1] [3 4 6]]
04:32	amalloy	oh wait, that's not a tuple
04:32	amalloy	okay, i take it back
04:32	pyrtsa	amalloy: Python: (1,3) < (1,2,4) == False, (1,2) < (1,2,4) == True.
04:33	pyrtsa	(1,) would be a Python tuple.
04:34	sm0ke	it doesnt make sense
04:34	sm0ke	why isnt there a sort-by-cmp or max-by-cmp
04:35	pyrtsa	sort-by does take a cmp argument, optionally.
04:35	sm0ke	pyrtsa: its a key func not comparison
04:35	pyrtsa	(sort-by identity cmp xs)
04:35	pyrtsa	sm0ke: In addition to the key.
04:35	amalloy	what would sort-by-cmp do? it would just be sort?
04:35	clgv	,(apply max-key (partial compare [0 0 0]) [[1 2 4] [3 5 1] [3 4 6]])
04:35	clojurebot	[3 4 6]
04:35	pyrtsa	amalloy: Sort with your custom comparator. Like it does.
04:36	amalloy	but that's what sort does
04:36	amalloy	&(doc sort)
04:36	lazybot	⇒ "([coll] [comp coll]); Returns a sorted sequence of the items in coll. If no comparator is supplied, uses compare. comparator must implement java.util.Comparator."
04:36	pyrtsa	Heh, true.
04:36	sm0ke	pyrtsa: what about max?
04:37	pyrtsa	sm0ke: max is unfortunately defined for sequences of java.lang.Number instances only.
04:37	pyrtsa	Thus, asking for a comparator would be asking for a different function.
04:37	sm0ke	now thats fucking stupid api to have
04:37	pyrtsa	I agree.
04:38	pyrtsa	Fun fact: I actually have my variations of min, max, <, <=, >, >= etc. defined for Comparables. Should probably open-source those.
04:38	Glenjawork	or add to core :p
04:38	pyrtsa	Yeah.
04:39	arcatan	pyrtsa: our codebase has those versions of <, <=, >, >=, too. cleverly i called them <<, <<=, >>, >>=.
04:39	pyrtsa	Glenjawork: Well, somebody might be right in arguing that the default impls are defined for Numbers only because of inlining.
04:39	arcatan	wasn't the best naming decision - now i'm like "wtf we are binding here?"
04:39	pyrtsa	arcatan: >>= -- I see what you did there! :D
04:40	pyrtsa	arcatan: I went for >' <' <=' >=' min' max'.
04:40	Glenjawork	pyrtsa: isn't there something in core that presents inlinable versions of functions for some types
04:40	Glenjawork	i seem to recall + is overloaded that way
04:40	pyrtsa	Glenjawork: I'm not sure. FWIW, there's a separate +' with different semantics.
04:41	pyrtsa	(Potentially returning BigInt etc.)
04:41	Glenjawork	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L939
04:42	Glenjawork	not that i know what :inline actually does
04:47	pyrtsa	Glenjawork: If I'm not missing something, the only way to redefine max etc so that inlining is available for Numbers, would be to guard them with an (if (instance? Number x) ... ...) check, and then make the "else" branch use the Comparable interface.
04:47	piranha	dnolen: are you by any chance still here?
04:47	pyrtsa	...Which might not be that bad, since they cast to Numbers anyway.
05:50	AeroNotix	what do people use for linting/code analysis?
05:58	sm0ke	kibit is good
05:58	sm0ke	actually its awesome, just that it doesnt walk recursively
06:02	arcatan	then there's Eastwood, which has had some attention recently
06:09	sm0ke	also dynalint
06:39	AeroNotix	lots of cider/kibit stuff doesn't work but gives me an error in the bar: "Variable binding depth exceeds max-specdpl size"
06:39	AeroNotix	any ideas?
06:48	sm0ke	yes i got an idea, how about use vim and do :!lein kibit %
06:55	AeroNotix	sm0ke: how about no
06:55	sm0ke	well its up to you man
06:55	sm0ke	no pressure
06:55	sm0ke	take your time
06:55	AeroNotix	sm0ke: not sure what you're trying to insinuate there.
06:59	bitemyapp	lol.
06:59	AeroNotix	Just childish
07:01	sm0ke	id like to be serious sometimes
07:02	locks	sm0ke: until the first "y so serious"
07:04	CookedGryphon	AeroNotix: what do you get if you do M-h v max-specpdl-size
07:04	AeroNotix	1500
07:04	AeroNotix	I'm looking at: https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/443
07:05	AeroNotix	seems like the issue was fixed in tip, just seeing if marmalade is picking up the changes...
07:05	AeroNotix	..secondary annoyance... why don't most marmalade packages just build from git/git tags
07:05	CookedGryphon	melpa does that doesn't it~?
07:05	CookedGryphon	think you'll find most stuff from marmalade in there
07:06	AeroNotix	lemme see
07:06	AeroNotix	oh wait, I'm using melpa
07:20	rurumate_	Hi, is there an easy way to read only first line from a file, a la head -n 1 ?
07:21	rurumate_	maybe useful has something?
07:22	CookedGryphon	(first (line-seq (reader file)))
07:22	rurumate_	coo;
07:22	rurumate_	*l
07:22	CookedGryphon	more correctly, (with-open [rdr (reader file)] (first (line-seq rdr)))
07:23	CookedGryphon	which will handle closing the file properly after you've read your one line
07:23	rurumate_	I was just about to say you should close the reader
07:23	rurumate_	but that's a bit too clunky
07:24	CookedGryphon	depending how critical this is...
07:24	CookedGryphon	you might want to just to (.readLine rdr)
07:24	CookedGryphon	what with lazy seqs chunking off the first 32, plus all the overhead of setting up the seq, even if it is idiomatic
07:25	rurumate_	no it's not critical, just playing in the repl
07:26	rurumate_	I'm trying to write it as short as possible.. looking for something like a bash implementation in clojure
07:29	CookedGryphon	stevedore might be interesting to you
07:33	rurumate_	yes, that's interesting, thanks
08:08	oracle123	aI have stored a string like "> 2 1" in db, then how to evaluate in clojure like (> 2 1)
08:11	AeroNotix	oracle123: read-string
08:11	AeroNotix	http://clojurecassandra.info/ <- is this as good as it looks?
08:18	oracle123	I need to read a string from db, and then evaluate it as a filter, but looks like it doens't work as expected, both of the following return all the data in the vector., shouldn't the second one return empty since (< 3 2) is alway false?
08:18	oracle123	(filter (fn [x] eval (read-string "(> 3 2)")) [0 1 2 3])
08:18	oracle123	(filter (fn [x] eval (read-string "(< 3 2)")) [0 1 2 3])
08:18	oracle123
08:21	hyPiRion	oracle123: There's a difference between `(eval (read-string "(> 3 2)"))` and `eval (read-string "(> 3 2)")`
08:23	oracle123	got it, thx hyPiRion
08:50	samfoo	Hey there clojurists! I have a bit of an open ended design/performance question that I was hoping some more experienced clojure developers might share some thoughts on...
08:51	samfoo	I've started implementing an NES emulator in clojure, and gotten to a point where immutability is causing pretty substantial performance trouble.
08:52	samfoo	The design is effectively that I have to "step" from one clock tick to the next. Each step produced a new system state...
08:54	Glenjawork	which part is the hotspot?
08:54	samfoo	Object churn
08:54	Glenjawork	are you changing lots of stuff each "tick" ?
08:54	samfoo	Yes
08:54	mdrogalis	Yeah unless you're using persistent data structures, that's going to hurt.
08:54	Glenjawork	maybe take a look at http://clojure.org/transients
08:55	samfoo	It's using defrecord or persistent maps for practically all the state
08:55	samfoo	So it's already persistent
08:55	mdrogalis	Did you use an actual profiler and observe that GC is the problem?
08:56	samfoo	I used VisualVM and observed that about 1/2 of the program time is spent in the constructors of some of my defrecords
08:56	Glenjawork	oh, you're making new records instead of assoc-ing ?
08:56	mdrogalis	samfoo: Interesting. I don't use defrecord all that much, so I can't comment on performance there.
08:56	samfoo	Which I interpretted as immutability being "slow" in this particular case
08:57	Glenjawork	clojure records are immutable in that when you change them you get a new cheap copy
08:57	Glenjawork	not in the sense that you have to make new ones
08:57	mdrogalis	What Glenjawork said :)
08:57	samfoo	Glenjawork: I'm assoc'ing and merging, but I assumed that assoc and merge internally have to call the record (java class) constructor
08:57	Glenjawork	hrm, interesting
08:58	samfoo	I could have misinterpretted the profiler output, of course
08:58	samfoo	I've never profile clojure before
08:58	mdrogalis	Not all too different from profiling Java IMO
09:02	oracle123	(defrecord Alert [id amount unit])
09:02	oracle123	(def alerts (map (fn[x] (Alert. x (* 2 x) (* 3 x))) (range 10)))
09:02	oracle123	(def rules ["(> .amount 3)" "(> .unit 4)"])
09:02	oracle123	I want to keep the alerts which meet every rules, how to do that? the rules definition are got from db, so the definition is type of string.
09:02	oracle123
09:05	daGrevis	is if a macro?
09:06	sandbags	daGrevis: trick I learned y'day to answer this question: 1) evaluate it
09:06	sandbags	macro's do not evaluate to themselves
09:07	sandbags	2) was looking at the metadata IIRC but looking at it now maybe i got that wrong
09:07	jballanc	,(macroexpand '(if true (println "Yes") (println "No")))
09:07	clojurebot	(if true (println "Yes") (println "No"))
09:07	jballanc	even easier :-)
09:07	jballanc	,(macroexpand '(-> crazy (nesting) (fun functions)))
09:07	clojurebot	(fun (nesting crazy) functions)
09:08	sandbags	jballanc: i'm not following what that tells you... how does that tell you that if is a macro?
09:08	daGrevis	,if
09:08	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: if in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
09:09	jballanc	sandbags: "macroexpand" will expand out macros
09:09	daGrevis	ye sorry
09:09	teslanick	If is a special form -- I took that to mean that it was neither function nor macro, and loosely thought it's some sort of IFn implementor in the java land.
09:09	teslanick	I don't know if that's accurate or not
09:10	jballanc	teslanick: yup...but definitely not a macro
09:10	daGrevis	but why isn't it a macro?
09:10	jballanc	optimization
09:10	sandbags	jballanc: right, but the macro expansion of the 'if' is the same as the expression so what does that tell you?
09:10	jballanc	sandbags: that it's not a macro
09:10	jballanc	see my example with "->"
09:10	jballanc	which is a macro
09:10	sandbags	jballanc: right but it doesn't tell you that it isn't a function either
09:11	jballanc	well, you asked if "if" was a macro ;-)
09:11	sandbags	actually i didn't ;-)
09:11	jballanc	oh, whoops... daGrevis did
09:11	sandbags	but i take your point
09:11	jballanc	:P
09:11	Glenjawork	,(var if)
09:11	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve var: if in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
09:12	sandbags	using macroexpand proves it isn't a macro
09:12	Glenjawork	,(var and)
09:12	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/and
09:12	Glenjawork	it's a special form
09:12	Glenjawork	afaict
09:13	hyPiRion	$source and
09:13	lazybot	and is http://is.gd/go7OcG
09:13	jballanc	,(letfn [(if [c t f] (println "Fooled you"))] (if true (println "If's not a function") (println "umm...")))
09:13	clojurebot	If's not a function\n
09:18	jballanc	heh...fun 'n games:
09:18	jballanc	,(letfn [(and [& clauses] (println "Macros can be replaced by functions"))] (and true (println "Macros can't be replaced by functions")))
09:18	clojurebot	Macros can't be replaced by functions\nMacros can be replaced by functions\n
09:18	jballanc	:P
09:22	Glenjawork	http://clojure.org/special_forms#Special%20Forms--%28if%20test%20then%20else?%29
09:32	TimMc	jballanc: Wow, `and` is surprisingly annoying to write.
09:33	TimMc	(defn and2 ([] true) ([test] (test)) ([test & more] (let [r (test)] (if r (apply and2 more) r))))
09:33	TimMc	called like (and2 (fn [] true) (fn [] 5))
09:35	deg	Moving my clojure env from Linux to my brand-new MacBook, but I'm a Mac newbie. So, wondering if better to use macports or homebrew, at least with respect to typical clojure/clojurescript usages?
09:36	AeroNotix	how do I parameterize builds? I want to have global variables (e.g. database hosts, other nodes in my network) as compile time constants. Does Lein support this?
09:37	jcromartie	AeroNotix: You can include a .properties file in your build and generate it with a template?
09:37	jcromartie	AeroNotix: but it's really better to specify those things at startup time
09:37	hyPiRion	AeroNotix: sort of. You can read resource files, and Lein supports specifying which resources to include
09:37	sandbags	deg: i've used both and found homebrew works better
09:37	jcromartie	i.e. from outside the .jar
09:37	hyPiRion	but yeah, jcromartie's suggestion is the best
09:37	AeroNotix	hyPiRion: jcromartie: I've got a resource file which I use. But I want to e.g. have a `make dev' and a `make production' target. Which will fill out that file.
09:38	sandbags	deg: in so far as I've never managed to get hb "wedged" and had to start from scratch
09:38	deg	sandbags: thanks. Any particular advantages, or just general sense?
09:38	deg	oops, msgs crossed. thx
09:39	AeroNotix	hyPiRion: jcromartie in Erlang there's a release generator (think uberjar, bit different though) and Erlang uses a sys.config file which you can write in a template language and then specify a file to fill out those templates at release generation time.
09:40	AeroNotix	using relx
09:41	hyPiRion	AeroNotix: yeah no, that's not possible in vanilla lein. But possible in plugins, I guess
09:41	AeroNotix	hmm ok
09:42	Glenjawork	AeroNotix: could you have the makefile spit out a shell script wrapper that sets env vars?
09:42	Glenjawork	which isn't really what you asked, but keeps the app free of config and gives you an easier build
09:43	AeroNotix	hmm, not perfect but...
09:43	Glenjawork	eg, if you need to add/move a DB host, you don't really want to recompile
09:43	Glenjawork	http://12factor.net/config and all that jazz
09:43	AeroNotix	sure. I'm just using what my ops dude likes to use
10:08	rurumate_	I need a fast hash function, maybe murmur. Is there a ready-to-eat implementation somewhere?
10:08	hyPiRion	rurumate_: generally you'd like to use a java lib for that
10:09	rurumate_	hyPiRion: yes, that's ok since it would probably be only one static call. but which one?
10:10	rurumate_	or is is the wrong channel to ask ;_;
10:12	ddellacosta	rurumate_: re: wrong channel, personally think that kind of question is fine. Unfortunately don't have a great answer for you...maybe Zach Tellman's byte-transforms? https://github.com/ztellman/byte-transforms
10:13	hyPiRion	rurumate_: http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.guava%7Cguava%7C15.0%7Cbundle
10:13	hyPiRion	rurumate_: then http://docs.guava-libraries.googlecode.com/git/javadoc/com/google/common/hash/Hashing.html
10:15	hyPiRion	I would generally just copypaste it and keep the license stuff available if the lib is too big
10:18	mrhanky	annybody here used servant with dommy? i keep getting an error something like "svgelement" is not defined. i dont know how to avoid this
10:19	mrhanky	sadly there's really not much information on servant in the web
10:27	AeroNotix	what are people using for cassandra?
10:28	stuartsierra	DataStax' Java client.
10:30	AeroNotix	stuartsierra: what about http://clojurecassandra.info/
10:30	AeroNotix	it uses the datastax client underneath
10:30	AeroNotix	Does this take care of pooling?
10:34	matt444	Whenever I define a function inside of a defn and use one of the defn's parameters, ClojureScript compiles that variable as being part of the namespace. Showing you what I mean: http://pastebin.com/Dv62ED2w
10:34	matt444	Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?
10:34	stuartsierra	AeroNotix: I don't know anything about that.
10:34	AeroNotix	stuartsierra: hmm, cheers anyway
10:35	CookedGryphon	matt444: one of those is aitimes, one is atimes
10:35	CookedGryphon	aitems, atimes*
10:35	matt444	well that's embarrassing
10:35	CookedGryphon	:P
10:36	matt444	lesson is to proofread my code, thanks
10:43	matt444	Is there a function for turning clojure sequences into javascript arrays, for interop?
10:44	stuartsierra	matt444: clj->js should do it
10:45	AimHere	I was going to suggest into-array, but that might be a java-array thing
10:45	matt444	@stuartsierra: when i google that I get a link to a gist, is this not in the cljs namespace
10:46	stuartsierra	matt444: I think it is. Look at the cljs.core source.
10:52	xificurC	is there a way to fetch all the code I wrote in my repl session?
10:52	CookedGryphon	no, but that would be an awesome plugin/middleware
10:52	xificurC	:(
10:52	llasram	xificurC: Are you using Emacs w/ cider/nrepl ?
10:53	xificurC	llasram: yes
10:53	clgv	hmm the repl has to keep its history somewhere...
10:53	llasram	xificurC: Do you have the Emacs variable `cider-history-file` set?
10:53	clgv	since you can step and search through it
10:53	xificurC	llasram: if you have to set it manually then no
10:53	CookedGryphon	my emacs repl resets every time, is there a way to stop it doing that?
10:53	llasram	xificurC, CookedGryphon: `customize` that variable. Then your history will be saved theer
10:54	llasram	And persist across emacs sessions
10:54	xificurC	llasram: will it save everything?
10:54	CookedGryphon	!!!
10:54	llasram	Yes
10:54	xificurC	even if I type (+ 2 3)?
10:54	llasram	Yes
10:54	CookedGryphon	that'll save me some time...
10:54	CookedGryphon	does it only do it globally though? Not per project?
10:54	llasram	It just saves the input
10:54	CookedGryphon	still better than nothing
10:55	xificurC	I'm playing around with seesaw and wanted to see if I could keep the stuff that worked
10:55	llasram	CookedGryphon: By default it's global, but I believe you could use e.g. dir locals to make it per-project
10:55	xificurC	so I am asking for stuff, redefining defs and defns etc
10:55	llasram	xificurC: Now you want magic :-)
10:55	llasram	Clojure doesn't save source attached to things it compiles
10:55	xificurC	I thought I could fetch the last used code :)
10:55	llasram	So there isn't a way to do that without doing something like custom middleware, as suggested earlier
10:56	xificurC	thats a shame
10:56	xificurC	there could be :source meta
10:56	llasram	xificurC: It's been discussed
10:57	clgv	xificurC: there is a serializable-fn macro
10:57	clgv	xificurC: I forgot the name of the lib but google should find it
10:58	xificurC	clgv: I wanted to save the session I'm running right now and am shutting down the pc in ~10-20 minutes, I don't think I'll be able to solve it till then :)
10:58	llasram	clgv, xificurC: https://github.com/technomancy/serializable-fn
11:01	xificurC	this works for fn only?
11:02	xificurC	very nice though
11:02	clgv	hm well, defn is missing. it's not difficult to add it though.
11:02	llasram	The source code is tiny -- reading it should answer all of your questions :-)
11:04	clgv	when you have a serializable defn, you could replace regular defn via leiningen project.clj to have all function with attached source ;)
11:20	xificurC	seesaw seems pretty nice
11:21	corecode	hi
11:21	corecode	is there a way to convert bigint to byte[]?
11:21	corecode	(byte-array 10N) returns an array with 10 elements :)
11:22	corecode	i mean something like BigInteger. .toByteArray
11:22	clgv	xificurC: it is. helped me to build a code comparison tool pretty fast :)
11:22	clgv	,(.toByteArray 10N)
11:22	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: toByteArray for class clojure.lang.BigInt>
11:23	clgv	,(.. 10N toBigInteger toByteArray)
11:23	clojurebot	#<byte[] [B@19512c2>
11:23	clgv	corecode: there you go ^^
11:32	jcromartie	mapcat is lazy… this is huge
11:32	jcromartie	why did I think that was impossible?
11:33	clgv	concat is lazy ;)
11:42	gfredericks	jcromartie: it's mostly lazy
11:43	gfredericks	$google CLJ-1218
11:43	lazybot	[clojure/src/clj/clojure/core.clj at master · clojure/clojure · GitHub] https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj
11:43	gfredericks	baah
11:43	matt444	Pretty sure I found a bug in clj->js
11:43	matt444	http://cljsfiddle.net/fiddle/matthewp.myfiddle
11:43	gfredericks	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1218
11:44	clgv	see CLJ-1218
11:44	clgv	$see CLJ-1218
11:44	clgv	there was a shortcut for this^^
11:52	jcromartie	so I'm torn on a design decision
11:52	AeroNotix	So it looks like this cassandra client (datastax) doesn't do connection pooling, can anyone recommend a generic connection pool? Java or otherwise.
11:52	jcromartie	I am using protocols and records to define events
11:52	jcromartie	but I want all events to have a :time attached to them
11:53	jcromartie	records obviously have no inheritance for things like this
11:53	clgv	just assoc time anyway?
11:54	clgv	defrecord has an almost regular map implementation
11:54	jcromartie	it seems kind of dirty because it's interfering with the record's own field
11:54	jcromartie	I could use multimethods for handling and maps for events
11:54	jcromartie	I don't have any real clear reason why I'd use protocols here anyway, I guess :\|
11:55	clgv	you can use regular maps with type metadata
11:55	jcromartie	and then technomancy would be happy
11:55	clgv	,(type (with-meta {:a 1 :time 42} {:type :awesome-event}))
11:55	clojurebot	:awesome-event
11:56	jcromartie	if it were maps it would just be {:time … :name :project-created :data {:attributes etc…}}
11:56	WWWest	Di
11:56	WWWest	*Hi
11:56	sveri	hi, i am trying to combine a luminus starter project with enlive, i am able to return a template, but this seems to be parsed by some middleware from luminus, does someone have an example project where he uses enlive and luminus together so i might have a look?
11:56	jcromartie	and then (defn make-event [name data] {:time … :data data :name name}) etc.
11:56	clgv	jcromartie: `type` as dispatch function for your different event types ^^
11:56	WWWest	if I want to read a value from a channel it two different go blocks, what's the pretty way to do that?
11:56	jcromartie	type or :name
11:56	jcromartie	yeah
11:57	WWWest	*in two different
11:57	jcromartie	clgv: I don't think metadata is the answer there, because the name of the event is pretty integral to the whole thing, I want to see it
11:57	jcromartie	and make it obvious
11:57	jcromartie	I know it's there
11:57	jcromartie	but I don't like metadata
11:57	clgv	jcromartie: ok...
11:57	jcromartie	plus I have to store them
11:57	clgv	metadata is easily stored ;)
11:58	clgv	I use maps and type metadata in one of my important dataset formats
11:59	mikerod	does the latest stable counter clockwise version only work with Java 7? Getting this hinted from http://doc.ccw-ide.org/documentation.html#install-as-plugin . Seeing "Java Virtual Machine (JVM) 7 installed and setup in the Operating System’s PATH" under pre-reqs.
12:00	clgv	mikerod: humm good question. maybe if uses some java.nio2 features...
12:00	mikerod	clgv: hmm perhaps
12:00	clgv	mikerod: do you really want to continue to use unsupported java 6?
12:00	mikerod	I have some people using counter clockwise that I wouldnt' expect to have Java 7 as of yet
12:01	mikerod	Clojure only requires 1.5+ :)
12:01	clgv	isnt clojure 1.6 switching to java 7?
12:01	mikerod	clgv: I haven't seen this stated somewhere. You could be right.
12:02	clgv	ah no 1.6
12:02	clgv	aka 6
12:02	mikerod	yeah
12:02	koreth__	I thought there was an issue with Android not moving to Java 7 yet.
12:02	clgv	"Clojure now builds with Java SE 1.6 and emits bytecode requiring Java SE 1.6 instead of Java SE 1.5. [CLJ-1268]"
12:02	mikerod	thoguht I read a debate on that somewhere
12:02	koreth__	So moving Clojure to 7 would break Android development.
12:02	mikerod	poor Android
12:03	koreth__	(But that's just what I've read; I'm just an interested bystander.)
12:03	aaelony	is there a concept in clj-time for computing business days between dates?
12:05	mikerod	When Clojure chooses to embrace invokedynamic, then we'll see Java 7 minimum :)
12:06	jcromartie	then again, multimethods avoid the AOT hell of protocols and records
12:06	clgv	mikerod: maybe 1.7? ;)
12:06	jcromartie	dammit
12:07	mikerod	jcromartie: AOT hell with protocols and records? hmm
12:08	hiredman	mikerod: once 1.6 is released the minimum jvm version will be 1.6 as well
12:13	mikerod	hiredman: yeah, I think that is pretty common that people have moved on to 1.6
12:13	mikerod	I think 1.7 is a little less common still
12:13	mikerod	1.7 jvm
12:13	jcromartie	mikerod: interactive development with AOT and protocols = pain
12:14	jcromartie	mikerod: not to mention without AOT, recompiling a namespace that defines a protocol = pain
12:14	jcromartie	because every instance of a record that implemented that protocol is now broken and needs to be recreated
12:15	jcromartie	mikerod: I even had a case where (not= some-record (read-string (pr-str some-record))) due to AOT
12:15	mikerod	jcromartie: that is true. I've seen the not= sort of scenario several times
12:18	koreth__	Wait, how can that be true unless some-record is implementing non-value-based equality semantics?
12:18	mikerod	koreth__: I believe the Class is checked as well there
12:19	koreth__	Ah, ok, TIL
12:20	mikerod	koreth__: With record (defrecord R [x]) ; (not= (->R 1) {:x 1})
12:20	mikerod	so the type is part of the "value" for these
12:21	koreth__	I guess I can see the reasoning, but intuitively it feels like it sort of breaks the "records should just be used as a performance optimization for maps" idea. But that idea is probably too simplistic to begin with.
12:24	mikerod	koreth__: Yeah, that is an interesting point. Testing the full equality of two maps probably isn't often what you want to do anyways I'd suppose though.
12:24	mikerod	(not= (into {} (->R 1)) {:x 1}) ; problem solved :P
12:25	WWWest	sorry if impolite, retrying: if I want to read a value from a channel it two different go blocks, what's the pretty way to do that?
12:25	ToBeReplaced	WWWest: do you mean, you have a channel with a value x on it, and you want two different go blocks to both get x?
12:26	WWWest	ToBeReplaced: yes
12:26	justin_smith	WWWest: maybe what you want is broadcast
12:26	justin_smith	one input, N outputs, each sees all inputs
12:27	WWWest	yes, looks good, thanks
12:27	justin_smith	"Usage: (broadcast & ports) Returns a broadcasting write port which, when written to, writes the value to each of ports."
12:28	justin_smith	I like how core.async is basically a recording studio, it means I can leverage my existing audio engineering skills
12:29	ToBeReplaced	WWWest: if you don't want the consumers to go out of sync (like, won't allow one consumer to eat more values than the other), then mult/tap will do it properly
12:29	justin_smith	ToBeReplaced: cool, I was not familiar with that one
12:30	ToBeReplaced	justin_smith: nothing wrong with broadcast afaict -- i've just been staying out of lab
12:30	justin_smith	lab?
12:31	ToBeReplaced	broadcast is a lab feature, i thought?
12:32	CaptainLex	Does anybody here know much about korma?
12:32	justin_smith	ToBeReplaced: I am sorry, I don't know what "lab" is
12:33	justin_smith	oh, now I see, yeah
12:33	justin_smith	sorry, my bad
12:35	gfredericks	should I be disturbed that clj-http README documents the :socket-timeout option but that keyword doesn't appear in its /src directory?
12:36	Glenjawork	it uses destructring a log
12:36	Glenjawork	a lot
12:37	gfredericks	yeah I forgot about that possibility
12:37	gfredericks	the world is as it should be
12:37	Glenjawork	i only know because i dug through for a similar reason
12:38	dakrone	gfredericks: https://github.com/dakrone/clj-http/blob/master/src/clj_http/core.clj#L206
12:39	gfredericks	dakrone: yep; thanks
12:40	clgv	gfredericks: socket timeouts are for quitters. :P
12:41	Glenjawork	we had an issue this week where the client and server both thought they had an active TCP connection, but some hardware in between had killed it
12:41	Glenjawork	not fun
12:42	noonian	thats called a man in the middle attack :P
12:45	justin_smith	noonian: the passive-agressive version
12:45	noonian	lol
13:03	dnolen	anyone tried to enable more of paredit in Light Table?
13:05	jcromartie	koreth__: ,(do (defrecord R [a b]) (let [r (->R :x :y)] (= r (read-string (pr-str r)))))
13:06	jcromartie	or rather
13:06	jcromartie	,(do (defrecord R [a b]) (let [r (->R :x :y)] (= r (read-string (pr-str r)))))
13:06	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Record construction syntax can only be used when read-eval == true>
13:06	jcromartie	oh right
13:07	jcromartie	koreth__: it's even to the point where the record's and the record->string->record's class appear to be the same
13:08	noonian	i just started using paredit so idk what LT is missing
13:08	noonian	i think this is the paredit pugin for LT though: https://github.com/LightTable/Paredit
13:09	CookedGryphon	dnolen: I had a go at composing the existing primitives into something more like emacs' paredit, but it lacks select forward s-exp and wrap/unwrap type operations
13:10	CookedGryphon	doesn't look like it would be too much work, but I didn't have the time to play any more than that
13:11	dnolen	CookedGryphon: ok just making sure I wasn't missing something
13:11	dnolen	noonian: that's actually helpful, I think add parens + the shrink left/right might keep me from losing my mind
13:11	gfredericks	just wrote a haxy protocol to get the count of the messages in an async buffer; am I missing some existing functionality?
13:13	clgv	gfredericks: someone on the ML claimed you could just use count on the buffer
13:13	gfredericks	clgv: it's a (chan 40) actually
13:13	CookedGryphon	dnolen: have you seen this on the use of that plugin too? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/light-table-discussion/BIyWHnRcoWc
13:13	clgv	the pattern was too build the buffer manually and then use it to construct a channel
13:14	gfredericks	clgv: that does appear to work; thanks
13:25	Pupnik	what does putting in the :seq tag here https://github.com/clojure/core.match/wiki/Overview#seq-matching actually do? is it just a performance optimisation or is there some syntax change I missed?
13:26	technomancy	Pupnik: it used to be that you couldn't use lists in patterns to match against lists
13:27	technomancy	I think that was recognized as a design error and fixed, but it could be some of the docs have leftover mentions of the workarounds or something?
13:29	dnolen	CookedGryphon: nice, so do I need to install the paredit plugin first or is that builtin?
13:30	Pupnik	hmm seems to have no problem at all working with vectors, but lists might be a bit funny, ill need to experiment more
13:40	aconbere	anyone here have any experience using amazonica?
13:43	abaker	is there a lein plugin or available API for creating release zips that are the jar + other goodies in your folder structure (like conf files and the like)?
13:44	arrdem	is there a particular favorite among the Clojure logging libraries? I'm looking for something with namespace level debugging control and minimal overhead beyond that.
13:44	ToBeReplaced	abaker: not the answer to your question, but could the conf files and related be "resources" instead that are packed up with the jar?
13:44	ToBeReplaced	arrdem: i like clojure.tools.logging
13:44	llasram	arrdem: I use tools.logging w/ slf4j + log4j
13:45	abaker	ToBeReplaced: no, they're too big and conceptually not typical resources you'd pack into the jar
13:45	technomancy	abaker: there is lein-tar for that
13:45	llasram	arrdem: You can configure it with a short Java properties file
13:45	abaker	technomancy: cool, that's what I was looking for
13:46	ne-on	dnolen: paredit is built in, but none of the commands are bound to keys. control-space and type 'paredit' to see commands, or 'keymap' to see keymapping stuff
13:46	dnolen	ne-on: thx
13:53	shiranaihito	what kind of problems can conflicting dependencies be expected to cause if one of them is ignored (to get past the build error)? .. in this case, i've included Datomic, which depends on AWS SDK, which depends on Codec 1.3 .. but other stuff depends on Codec 1.6 .. is there a sensible, non-dirty solution to this, or should i just wait for whatever trouble is coming my way? :P
14:02	stuartsierra	shiranaihito: As long as the more-recent version is 100% API-compatible with the older version, you can safely use the more-recent version.
14:03	shiranaihito	.. and only as pertains to what's actually being used by the dependencies?
14:03	justin_smith	shiranaihito: I usually use an :exclusions key, and go with whatever combination of :exclusions on various deps reliably gets me an app that works
14:03	shiranaihito	:P
14:03	stuartsierra	shiranaihito: yes, if you can determine what's used
14:04	shiranaihito	and what happens when there's a "compatibility conflict" with the calls being used?
14:04	stuartsierra	shiranaihito: stuff breaks ;)
14:04	shiranaihito	of course, but how mysteriously? :P
14:05	hyPiRion	very, usually :p
14:05	stuartsierra	It really depends on the library and the nature of the conflict.
14:05	shiranaihito	.. examples? :P
14:05	Slackwise	Where's the best place to ask newbie questions? I've got a snippet of code that's clearly not working, and it'd help to have someone explain what I'm doing wrong.
14:05	stuartsierra	A common symptom is a ClassNotFoundException or a method-not-found.
14:05	nDuff	Slackwise: Here isn't awful.
14:05	Slackwise	https://gist.github.com/Slackwise/c8f2af25bcc2598096e4
14:05	rasmusto	Slackwise: here, drop a link to a gist/refheap paste
14:06	shiranaihito	stuartsierra: hmm.. well, a method-not-found would lead you in the right direction, at least
14:06	Slackwise	I'm trying to re-implement the comp function, but I'm getting an a crazy arity error.
14:06	Slackwise	^a crazy
14:06	shiranaihito	how often do you guys run into trouble with dependencies?
14:06	stuartsierra	shiranaihito: Running `lein deps :tree` will print out warnings for possible dependency conflicts.
14:07	hyPiRion	Slackwise: (apply (first fs) results) should be ((first fs) results)
14:07	llasram	shiranaihito: Not very often in my experience
14:07	nDuff	Slackwise: right -- it's passing each character through as an argument.
14:07	shiranaihito	stuartsierra: well, i'm already getting an error - that's why i'm asking about this stuff :)
14:07	abaker	llasram: clearly you need more commons-logging in your life
14:07	shiranaihito	"Possibly confusing dependencies found"
14:08	hyPiRion	Slackwise: also, this happens in opposite order of comp, so if you want the exact same functionality, you need to reverse the list first
14:08	shiranaihito	but alright.. the most efficient way to sweep this madness under the rug is some kind of "general exclusions" key somewhere?
14:08	mikerod	so stuartsierra has officially embranced leiningen over maven for building Clojure projects?
14:09	nDuff	Slackwise: ...apply can/will do that.
14:09	pjstadig	well there was the hand off of power ceremony
14:09	hyPiRion	mikerod: hah. I just thinks he knows all the ways debug unexpected lein results.
14:09	mikerod	http://stuartsierra.com/2013/11/04/command-line-intransigence
14:10	nDuff	Slackwise: if you take out the apply, it works.
14:10	mikerod	hyPiRion: maybe true, I was just putting the blog post together with this hah.
14:10	hyPiRion	:p
14:10	nDuff	Slackwise: ...so, that line should be just ((first fs) results)
14:10	stuartsierra	shiranaihito: Yes, you can use `:exclusions […]` at the top level of project.clj
14:11	shiranaihito	stuartsierra: alright, thanks! .. i guess i'll.. be alright.. :p
14:11	Slackwise	nDuff, hyPiRion: I guess my problem is assuming args would be a seq?
14:11	Slackwise	I was using apply to "explode" a list.
14:11	nDuff	Slackwise: pardon? args is a seq.
14:11	mikerod	I have been on the fence on the topic at times. Maven is probably smoother in my current work environment, but leiningen is a possibility. Looking for that final inspiration to push more for lein here.
14:11	stuartsierra	mikerod: There are still things missing from Leiningen that Maven does (e.g. multi-module builds with automatic dependency ordering) but I default to Leiningen for most Clojure work.
14:11	nDuff	Slackwise: you might consider playing around with Light Table if you want to see what values are used in practice.
14:11	hyPiRion	Slackwise: ooh, sorry. You're right. Well, just for the first comp.
14:12	hyPiRion	then, when you've done (apply (first fs) result) once, the results will not be a list.
14:13	Slackwise	nDuff: Will Light Table do any form of debugging, or just evaluate expressions? (I've seen a bit of the screencast, so I know it will do inline eval.)
14:13	mikerod	stuartsierra: Yes, I have had a few times now where I'd prefer to be using Leiningen for our Clojure projects due to its greater (perhaps just simpler) build flexibility.
14:14	rasmusto	is there a good way to shell out in a lighttable plugin? I'm looking at the python plugin example and its doing a lot of (unnecessary?) stuff. I want to run git
14:14	Slackwise	hyPiRion: Ahh, good point. It was a seq coming in, but not out, and apply expects a seq, doesn't it...
14:14	hyPiRion	Slackwise: yes, exactly
14:14	Slackwise	So... use "into"?
14:15	Slackwise	Hmm.
14:15	djjolicoeur	Slackwise: You can set up kebindings to do things like macroexpand, benchmarking, or tracing in light table
14:16	nDuff	Slackwise: if there's stepwise debugging as such, I'm not aware of it. If that's what you want, you end up with something like Ritz, and that's... rather heavyweight.
14:16	sobel	oh hai, nDuff :)
14:16	nDuff	sobel: heh, small world.
14:18	Slackwise	djjolicoeur, nDuff: I meant to give Light Table a try anyway, so I'll definitely check it out. (Downloading.)
14:22	jcromartie	sigh… at some point you just have to set aside the pure functions and make API calls to six different systems :P
14:22	jcromartie	there's always going to be a point of no return
14:44	fredyr	i'm having trouble with lookups on om's cursors
14:44	fredyr	this is a manual cursor creation of the same state i have in my component
14:44	fredyr	https://gist.github.com/fredyr/8424220
14:44	fredyr	which gives an error i'm not really able to follow
14:48	fredyr	it does work if i do (:author (om/value cursor)), but the cursor is implementing the lookup interface straight up, isn't that the idea?
14:51	noonian	fredyr: hmm, are you sure you need to build a cursor by hand?
14:56	fredyr	no, im not doing that in my original code, but i tried to narrow the behaviour down
14:57	fredyr	the manual cursor is a recreation of the same state i had in my component, which gave the same error
15:01	justin_smith	technomancy: I need to add a jar to the path that will be on a user's machine (comes with java) but is no longer included in the default classpath. Resolving it with an environment expansion under :source-paths works (and :java-source-paths would too) but I would like a key that more clearly species "this is a jar that is part of java but not in the default classpath" or something close to it
15:01	llasram	justin_smith: :resource-paths ?
15:01	justin_smith	hmm, yeah, that kind of makes sense
15:02	fredyr	noonian: updated the gist to contain the original code
15:07	aaelony	12:02 *** tomobrien QUIT Ping timeout: 248 seconds
15:08	noonian	fredyr: try passing nil as the first arg to dom/div before your (dom/h2 nil ...)
15:11	fredyr	noonian: right, that was me messing up the gist, had a #js object there in the original. doesn't make any difference unfortunately
15:11	justin_smith	llasram: good enough, running with that one
15:11	justin_smith	(inc llasram)
15:11	lazybot	⇒ 14
15:15	noonian	fredyr: hmm, weird. and you're calling build on book? or om/root?
15:16	fredyr	noonian: yes, root on the initial state and build-all for the list of books
15:17	fredyr	noonian: as you see, the print-out of the state coming into the component is okay
15:17	fredyr	noonian: and it works if i call om/value
15:20	noonian	fredyr: i'm not sure whats' causing the error
15:21	gfredericks	is async/thread supposed to be a version of async/go without the crazy state machine?
15:21	noonian	i'd update to om 0.1.6 and try to figure out whats going on from the source
15:21	gfredericks	if not, what distinguishes it from go?
15:21	noonian	i think the error is from line 97 of the current source in core.cljs: (if (satisfies? IShouldUpdate c)
15:22	sveri	hi, when i use enlive with ring, is there a way to enable hot reloading of html templates?
15:23	dav	is there a document/blogpost somewhere that explains the performance/implementation of hash-maps ?
15:24	jcromartie	sveri: yes, there is https://github.com/cgrand/enlive#auto-reloading-112
15:24	sveri	jcromartie: hm, i have seen that
15:24	sveri	but where do i have to put that?
15:24	sveri	in the handler?
15:26	jcromartie	sveri: I think you call it directly in the ns with templates
15:26	sveri	jcromartie: you mean where i define the templates?
15:27	sveri	in the clojure file?
15:27	noonian	dav: i think rich hickey has a few videos talking about them. they are a persistent version of an array mapped hash trie described by some dude name Bagwell but i can't find the paper with a quick google
15:32	fredyr	noonian: i'm on 0.1.6 btw, thanks for the help
15:33	noonian	fredyr: np, i might try to reproduce your error when i have time
15:33	fredyr	noonian: cool, let me know if you find anything
15:33	noonian	will do
15:34	dav	noonian: thanks
15:34	noonian	np
15:34	dav	noonian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_tree_(persistent_data_structure) <= there are references there
15:35	noonian	thanks
15:36	edbond	using (go ... (om/read ... (<! ....))) tells me <! used not in go block. Why is that?
15:45	bitemyapp	http://news.sciencemag.org/people-events/2013/06/u.s.-supreme-court-strikes-down-human-gene-patents
15:46	technomancy	oops
15:46	aaelony	shouldn't this return true?? (re-matches #"\-" "hello-there")
15:46	bitemyapp	aaelony: are you asking us to change Clojure's regex library?
15:47	bitemyapp	aaelony: or Java's for that matter?
15:47	aaelony	no I foolishly have forgotten how to match a hyphen in a string...
15:47	technomancy	,(some #{\?} (name 're-matches))
15:47	edbond	,(re-matches #"\-" "hello-there")
15:47	clojurebot	nil
15:47	clojurebot	nil
15:47	bitemyapp	,(re-find #"-" "hello-there")
15:47	clojurebot	"-"
15:47	bitemyapp	,(re-find #"BLAH" "hello-there")
15:47	clojurebot	nil
15:48	aaelony	thanks, I just need it to report true if there is a hyphen
15:48	bitemyapp	aaelony: you got two unhelpful answers and one helpful one. That's a better than average hit-rate.
15:48	bitemyapp	aaelony: "-" is true.
15:48	aaelony	that works :)
15:48	bitemyapp	,(not "-")
15:48	clojurebot	false
15:48	technomancy	wait true or truthy?
15:48	bitemyapp	truthy
15:48	bitemyapp	I was trying to avoid using that word.
15:49	bitemyapp	saying "true" makes the ridiculous nature of it more obvious.
15:49	technomancy	truthiness is perfectly cromulent
15:49	aaelony	helpful answers to me, heheh
15:50	bitemyapp	aaelony: typing re-<TAB> would've given you some functions to fiddle with
15:50	bitemyapp	aaelony: could've easily figured it out yourself in the repl :P
15:50	aaelony	long story... but true
16:05	gfredericks	~truthiness
16:06	clojurebot	Pardon?
16:06	gfredericks	clojurebot: truthiness is perfectly cromulent
16:06	clojurebot	Roger.
16:14	gfredericks	oh man async/alt! is a nasty macro
16:23	amalloy	isn't every async macro a nasty one?
16:26	gfredericks	prollably
16:32	milanj	what's usual way to get minimal useful stacktrace ?
16:32	technomancy	use a language that isn't clojure
16:32	TimMc	milanj: (pst)
16:32	trptcolin	BOOM technomancy'd
16:33	TimMc	milanj: clojure.repl/pst prints the most recent exception in a cleaner way.
16:33	milanj	TimMc, thanks, I'll look at it
16:34	milanj	technomancy, I wish
16:39	eric_normand	I would like to do something when a lazy seq has been exhausted
16:39	eric_normand	is there a common way to do that?
16:40	gfredericks	(concat some-seq (lazy-seq (side-effects) ())) ;; would work I think
16:40	gfredericks	I've never seen anybody do that
16:40	eric_normand	would like to close an input stream and delete a file
16:40	bitemyapp	eric_normand: wouldn't rest be nil?
16:40	eric_normand	gfredericks: ah! thanks!
16:41	gfredericks	eric_normand: probably there are better ways to handle resources like that
16:41	bitemyapp	man.
16:41	eric_normand	bitemyapp: wrong scope
16:41	gfredericks	pjstadig has this fascinating lib that I don't know anything about
16:41	bitemyapp	People complain about laziness in Haskell and then do stuff like that?
16:41	Bronsa	eric_normand: there is also realized?
16:41	eric_normand	again, wrong scope
16:41	bitemyapp	eric_normand: your face is a wrong scope :\|
16:41	eric_normand	the file is too big to fit in memory
16:41	bitemyapp	eric_normand: jkjk :)
16:42	bitemyapp	eric_normand: liked the H-M post.
16:42	eric_normand	bitemyapp: thanks!
16:42	bitemyapp	eric_normand: didn't like the war it sparked off in HN. I wasn't responsible for that bonfire, for once.
16:43	eric_normand	bitemyapp: i try not to read comments there
16:43	eric_normand	bitemyapp: anything worthwhile?
16:46	bitemyapp	eric_normand: Wiser man than I. Good comments include: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7053188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7052206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7052344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7051944
16:46	bitemyapp	eric_normand: ignore the rest as much as possible, including responses.
16:46	eric_normand	bitemyapp: thanks
16:47	eric_normand	bitemyapp: i think I'll avoid the lazy seq solution
16:47	eric_normand	bitemyapp: cleaner just to return a cleanup closure
16:47	bitemyapp	eric_normand: thank you :)
16:49	abaranosky	is there a consensus on which JSON library has the best performance?
16:49	bitemyapp	abaranosky: Jackson?
16:49	bitemyapp	abaranosky: you won't like the output.
16:50	bitemyapp	abaranosky: use criterium and benchmark it against inputs and outputs you care about.
16:51	bitemyapp	abaranosky: throw jackson, clj-json, cheshire, and http://code.google.com/p/json-smart/wiki/Benchmark into the running.
16:53	technomancy	what
16:53	technomancy	clj-json is not a thing
16:53	bitemyapp	h/o
16:53	technomancy	it's just what cheshire used to be called
16:54	bitemyapp	oh
16:54	bitemyapp	well nevermind then.
16:54	technomancy	and jackson is just the lib underneath cheshire
16:54	bitemyapp	didn't know if there'd be a performance difference between it and cheshire.
16:54	bitemyapp	technomancy: yeah but is there overhead from mapification?
16:55	technomancy	bitemyapp: sure, but that's overhead nearly every clojure application is going to introduce anyway
16:55	dakrone	bitemyapp: there's always overhead, you could just loop over Jackson's JsonToken/START_OBJECT, but that would be a pain ;)
16:55	technomancy	whether in the lib or outside it
16:55	bitemyapp	technomancy: given what I know about abaranosky, I was taking non-mapification to be a serious option.
16:55	bitemyapp	Really.
16:56	dakrone	cheshire includes benchmarks, you could always run those
16:56	bitemyapp	dakrone: what agains what?
16:56	sveri	hm, i added (net.cgrand.reload/auto-reload ns) to my template definition .clj file, but the hot reloading is still not working with http-kit, any ideas what is wrong there?
16:56	bitemyapp	dakrone: it's safe to assume he's been using Cheshire all along and has run into a rough patch.
16:56	bitemyapp	(probably)
16:57	dakrone	bitemyapp: data.json, clj-json, and a lot of different parts in cheshire (keyword-izing, custom keyword coerce fns, etc)
16:57	`cbp	if i had a dime for every setup.py i've had to edit
16:57	bitemyapp	`cbp: if I had a dime for every setup.py I've had to edit, I'd have half a dollar. I'm pretty good at avoiding Python busywork.
16:57	bitemyapp	`cbp: mostly by writing Makefiles instead.
16:58	arrdem	bitemyapp: we should architect a Makefile replacement that's easier to write and harder to fuck up
16:58	bitemyapp	arrdem: doable with a Haskell EDSL.
16:58	`cbp	I mean setup.py that pip gives me
16:58	bitemyapp	arrdem: model it as a dependency tree.
16:58	arrdem	bitemyapp: exactly.
16:59	bitemyapp	`cbp: pip is for communists.
16:59	arrdem	now we just have 30 years of legacy makefiles to migrate..
16:59	bitemyapp	arrdem: "Now there are 102 Makefile clones"
16:59	rasmusto	just replace tab characters with "[" and you're good
16:59	arrdem	rasmusto: oh gods why
17:00	bitemyapp	arrdem: GHC is enabling typeholes by default. This is amazing.
17:00	rasmusto	(for the makefile replacement)
17:00	bitemyapp	arrdem: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/GHC/TypeHoles
17:00	arrdem	bitemyapp: the last make system I worked with used $(make $TARGET $OPTS) to allow for reconfiguring of "shared" components, thus making a parallel build impossible..
17:00	bitemyapp	arrdem: noice.
17:01	`cbp	c based too hard too many unices too many differences
17:01	`cbp	jvm or bust imo
17:01	arrdem	RUST OR BUST
17:02	bitemyapp	arrdem: I'm considering using Rust in an AI competition tomorrow.
17:02	arrdem	bitemyapp: if you do lemme know how it goes.. I have yet to truly try out rust.
17:02	arrdem	hello world doesn't count at all.
17:04	bitemyapp	arrdem: most of what I know about it concerns the type system, ownership model, and concurrency model. For fairly obvious reasons (those are the interesting bits)
17:04	bitemyapp	arrdem: the secret here is keeping the rust devs honest WRT FP, which failed in the development of other languages. Rust is hybrid procedural / FP at the moment, no OO.
17:04	bitemyapp	arrdem: but make no mistake, it's no Haskell. It's pretty typical to mutate structs (which are memory-identical to C structs) and kick 'em around.
17:05	bitemyapp	arrdem: but the compiler keeps you honest, so that's good.
17:05	bitemyapp	arrdem: true const correctness!
17:05	bitemyapp	<3
17:05	arrdem	bitemyapp: yeak. that the compiler is keeping you honest about pointers and memory locations I think is pretty cool.
17:06	arrdem	bitemyapp: I haven't read in to the channels system yet
17:06	jjido	if you're into C style syntax there is http://ceylon-lang.org too
17:06	bitemyapp	arrdem: well it's not pointers and memory locations so much as tree-based propagation of "properties"
17:07	arrdem	jjido: some things were not meant to be...
17:07	bitemyapp	arrdem: if container is mut, the sub-elements it "owns" are mut. Ditto immutability. Ditto ownership strategy.
17:07	bitemyapp	arrdem: well sorry, not quite ditto ownership strategy.
17:08	seangrove	Is there an index-of in clojurescript?
17:08	bitemyapp	arrdem: it's more subtle than that, you can have value and reference based sub elements mixed into a container.
17:08	seangrove	Or rather, what's a good way to find the index of an element in a collection that matches a predicate?
17:09	bitemyapp	seangrove: filter + map-indexed
17:10	dnolen	seangrove: I'm thinking about adding indexOf lastIndexOf to all sequential CLJS collections, I think there's a ticket for it even
17:10	bitemyapp	,(ffirst (filter #(= (second %) "blah") (map-indexed vector ["woot" "blah" "blargh"])))
17:10	clojurebot	1
17:10	bitemyapp	seangrove: ^^
17:11	seangrove	bitemyapp: Ah, makes sense, thanks
17:11	seangrove	dnolen: Would certainly be nice, but I assume that would be looking for a specific item?
17:11	seangrove	dnolen: Or would you use the #{} syntax for it?
17:11	dnolen	seangrove: no predicate
17:11	dnolen	seangrove: same as Clojure
17:11	amalloy	bitemyapp: (first (keep-indexed ...))?
17:12	bitemyapp	amalloy: not my fault the language doesn't have loop fusion :(
17:12	bitemyapp	amalloy: good call.
17:14	piranha	dnolen: I'm not sure if that's a bug or not, but if I do two om.core/update! calls in a row, I get "Cannot manipulate cursor outside of render phase, only om.core/transact!, om.core/update!, and om.core/read operations allowed"
17:14	bitemyapp	arrdem: Reid read: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/GHC/TypeHoles
17:14	piranha	afk right now, but if you want, I can provide more details
17:14	arrdem	bitemyapp: never do tha again.
17:14	arrdem	bitemyapp: already queued
17:15	dnolen	piranha: would need to see a minimal example, thanks
17:15	bitemyapp	arrdem: sweet
17:16	Cr8	bitemyapp is a typehole
17:16	arrdem	(inc Cr8)
17:16	lazybot	⇒ 3
17:17	`cbp	LOL
17:17	bitemyapp	bitemyapp \|is\| a typehole
17:17	bitemyapp	clojurebot: bitemyapp \|is\| a typehole
17:17	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
17:17	arrdem	bitemyapp: you're already bitemyapp \|is\|
17:17	arrdem	it entertains me to mock other peoples gods
17:18	bitemyapp	~bitemyapp
17:18	clojurebot	bitemyapp is a typehole
17:18	bitemyapp	arrdem: evidently not!
17:18	arrdem	bitemyapp: hum... clojurebot is supposed to gripe when you change your own ~ but w/e
17:19	Cr8	huh
17:19	Cr8	that's actually pretty neat
17:19	arrdem	one of these days I'm gonna figure out how to get clojurebot to bitch on my behalf whenever pastebin.com is mentioned in channel...
17:19	bitemyapp	~bitemyapp
17:19	clojurebot	bitemyapp is it amuses me to mock other peoples' gods
17:19	Cr8	then again I've been in C++ land all day so anything having to do with making error messages reasonable probably seems pretty neat to me right now
17:19	arrdem	~botsnack
17:20	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
17:20	arrdem	bitemyapp: ooh! I know what I can use grimoire for...
17:20	arrdem	bitemyapp: clojurewiki lookup!
17:20	bitemyapp	arrdem: I already have a grimoire repo, YOU'RE TOO LATE
17:21	arrdem	Q_Q
17:21	bitemyapp	arrdem: jk jk. I do have a repo but it's a starting place for notes I wouldn't put in ClojureWiki.
17:21	arrdem	that's something else I want to add to the wiki... a naming convention article
17:22	arrdem	with extra bitching about $LEIN_IRONIC_JURE
17:22	technomancy	how about clo*
17:22	piranha	dnolen: not really minimal (I can provide smaller one tomorrow, time to sleep here already :), but here my actual code - http://paste.in.ua/9265/#11 - line 11 is failing
17:23	arrdem	technomancy: I only know three clo* projects.. clojurebot, clojail and cloutjure.
17:23	dnolen	piranha: that might be becauase that's in a go loop
17:23	piranha	dnolen: can I do anything because of that?
17:23	`cbp	what about cloact
17:26	dnolen	piranha: actually that should just work
17:26	piranha	:(
17:26	dnolen	piranha: oh I see
17:26	dnolen	piranha: the second one is problematic
17:26	dnolen	piranha: you are reading from a cursor that's a no no
17:26	bitemyapp	sadfaces on IRC sometimes actually make me sad.
17:26	bitemyapp	piranha's was one of them
17:26	dnolen	piranha: outside of the render phase
17:27	dnolen	:orig-locations
17:27	piranha	dnolen: ah! I see
17:27	arrdem	I wonder if there's an emacs minor-mode to do smilies->glyphs
17:27	piranha	hm, well I can read from global state atom here of course...
17:27	dnolen	piranha: no need
17:27	dnolen	piranha: just do it "inside"
17:28	dnolen	piranha: (update! data (fn [data] ...))
17:28	bitemyapp	arrdem: you can definitely do it, given what Haskellers do with lambdas.
17:29	piranha	dnolen: hah, sure! thanks :)
17:29	arrdem	bitemyapp: looks like it's an emacs/erc builtin already.
17:29	bitemyapp	lolmacs.
17:29	arrdem	HAHA piranha's last got glyph'd :D
17:29	dnolen	piranha: yeah it's too easy to see inconsistent stuff, if Om doesn't enforce because of 16ms delay between renders
17:29	arrdem	bitemyapp: br0 I'm already a nyanmacs user... what did you expect of me?
17:30	dnolen	piranha: so it actually caught a potential bug for you :)
17:30	piranha	yeah I understand that :)
17:30	piranha	that's quite cool, the only problem that it's not documented/I couldn't understand from an error message what to do
17:30	piranha	but I can live with that :P
17:31	dnolen	piranha: yes we're getting close to the point where I'll starting documenting, I'm starting to see that what we have is pretty good with the exception of the outstanding issues
17:31	piranha	bitemyapp: and I'm sorry for a sadface, was confused :-)
17:32	piranha	dnolen: yeah it's quite usable right now, I don't think I miss anything... but you'll hear from me if I will :-)
17:32	dnolen	piranha: excellent :)
17:32	bitemyapp	arrdem: I use to use nyanmacs, until it started causing memory leaks.
17:34	wwell	sorry for the stupid question, but i'm just starting clojure and i was wondering about something regarding variables wrapped inside of lambdas: when i write something like (defn f [] y), i would think that it wouldn't give me unbound variable error, but rather just wait until f is applied (which is what happens with common lisp and scheme)
17:34	wwell	i guess this wouldn't be useful too often, but it seemed curious to me
17:35	shep-werk	wwell: i think that is dynamic binding
17:35	wwell	ohh
17:35	wwell	i'm not used to that
17:35	technomancy	it's not dynamic binding
17:35	shep-werk	and as i understand it, clojure has lexical binding
17:35	wwell	oh
17:35	bitemyapp	it has dynamic scope too.
17:35	bitemyapp	but that's not really the point in this case.
17:35	technomancy	wwell: clojure functions don't carry around their full environment
17:35	shep-werk	true, but you have to opt into that, correct?
17:35	technomancy	just the specific locals they depend upon
17:36	technomancy	so you can know during compile time whether a function refers to something non-existent
17:36	wwell	okay
17:36	technomancy	(also because there's no way to pass an environment to eval)
17:36	noonian	but this is a compile time error right? isn't it about the compiler trying to make guarantees for the jvm?
17:36	technomancy	noonian: nothing to do with the jvm
17:37	technomancy	there's just literally no way that function could ever work
17:38	noonian	if y was defined later it would work in other languages though, so the original question seems valid to me: why throw the error at compile time?
17:38	noonian	it sounds like you are saying it was a design choice
17:38	technomancy	as a top-level var or as a local?
17:38	noonian	a top level var
17:39	technomancy	as a local there's no way it could work; as a top-level var it was an explicit design choice to simplify the compiler and allow it to catch many kinds of errors
17:39	technomancy	s/local/closure/
17:39	noonian	cool
17:40	technomancy	comes up every so often on the mailing list
17:40	technomancy	well, it used to
17:40	wwell	alright, thanks for the informative (and very quick/kind) answers. i gotta go now~
17:41	scgilardi	it's why declare is useful/used
17:43	bitemyapp	technomancy: I just thought of a workaround.
17:43	bitemyapp	Agda is cooler anyway >:)
17:53	arrdem	bitemyapp: smiley mode totally mangled that last one... I got a > and then the glyph. evidently I need to do some hacking on this...
17:54	Cr8	ew smilies
18:03	mikerod	is `(vec <some-coll>)` better than `(apply vector <some-coll>)`
18:03	amalloy	i mean, maybe it depends on your definition of "better" but it's better in any way i can think of
18:04	mikerod	vague I know, I mean if you had to choose
18:04	technomancy	mikerod: I'd guess it's less wasteful since apply has to create a seq for the args to vector
18:04	amalloy	i would never write (apply vector x)
18:04	technomancy	but no idea if that actually matters
18:04	amalloy	technomancy: huh? it creates exactly as many seqs as vec does
18:04	mikerod	ok, so a subtle difference; `vec` definitely seems more straight-forward, so then I'd pick it as "better"
18:05	technomancy	hm; true since you still have to step over it
18:05	technomancy	use whichever uses transients, if any
18:08	justin_smith	that would be (into [] coll)
18:08	bitemyapp	okay people
18:08	bitemyapp	we're going to stop guessing
18:08	technomancy	but I don't actually care
18:08	technomancy	you can't make me care
18:08	bitemyapp	I want empiricism damn you
18:14	bitemyapp	Execution time mean : 11.088373 ms for (apply vector (range 100000)) --- Execution time mean : 10.990399 ms for vec.
18:14	bitemyapp	std-dev of both was in the hundreds of microseconds.
18:14	bitemyapp	mikerod: now you know.
18:15	technomancy	http://sararyan.com/wp-content/uploads/covers/3183556620_14b37b97d0_m-150x150.jpg
18:15	bitemyapp	<3
18:16	technomancy	was wearing that shirt yesterday
18:16	technomancy	also, now I really really want to find myself in a situation where I can drop the ape dung link and have it be apropos
18:16	technomancy	the one from yesterday
18:17	bitemyapp	Yeah, I remember. That won't be easy.
18:17	technomancy	we'll see
18:17	amalloy	bitemyapp: that didn't measure anything interesting
18:17	bitemyapp	amalloy: my repl is at your disposal.
18:17	technomancy	bitemyapp: I could be invited to contribute to a Go codebase or something
18:17	amalloy	you just measured how long it takes to fully evaluate (range 100000)
18:18	bitemyapp	ah, well, good point. h/o
18:18	bitemyapp	technomancy: that would do it.
18:18	amalloy	you want instead to (def l (doall (range 100000))), and then time (vec l) (apply vector l)
18:18	bitemyapp	amalloy: yeah, about to do that.
18:18	bitemyapp	technomancy: I've been wanting to repurpose some go-based dev-ops stuff in Haskell.
18:20	kristof	bitemyapp: I thought about something
18:20	bitemyapp	4.374956 ms (vec l), 4.399963 ms (apply vector l)
18:20	bitemyapp	welp.
18:20	kristof	bitemyapp: I decided that type systems are not just for correctness or mini-proofing but most importantly are a rich way to describe the world
18:21	bitemyapp	kristof: a rich way to describe code and what it should look like, but from a higher order.
18:21	bitemyapp	kristof: (ala Theorems For Free!)
18:21	kristof	bitemyapp: I'm thinking more in terms of data-structures
18:22	bitemyapp	kristof: that too. We could discuss the categorical nature of product and sum types.
18:22	bitemyapp	kristof: they're categorical duals of each other :)
18:22	kristof	I've only ever understood product types, not sum types
18:22	bitemyapp	kristof: are you familiar with Lenses?
18:22	kristof	nein
18:22	bitemyapp	okay, we'll put that off until you're comfy with product and sum types.
18:24	bitemyapp	kristof: I'm about to go into a meeting, but I want to leave you with something before I go: http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/product http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/sum+type when you draw a category graph
18:24	bitemyapp	kristof: categorical duals are, put in a facile way, inversions of each other by flipping the arrows around.
18:24	bitemyapp	kristof: so a product type has a C with arrows from C to A and B, where a sum type has an A and a B with arrows pointing from each to C
18:25	bitemyapp	kristof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coproduct
18:25	bitemyapp	kristof: sum types are basically just algebraic data types. "this or this or that"
18:26	bitemyapp	kristof: product types contain multiple things that can be obtained via a function. Sum types can be obtained FROM multiple things via a function.
18:26	justin_smith	https://www.refheap.com/23800 <- into is more than twice as fast as the others, which are about equivalent (reposting in proper channel)
18:26	kristof	bitemyapp: I didn't realize that tagged unions and sum types were the same thing, sorry
18:26	bitemyapp	kristof: yep!
18:26	kristof	neat
18:27	bitemyapp	kristof: oh very.
18:27	bitemyapp	kristof: when kmett was working on lenses (like jquery but for typed data), he realized there was a categorical dual, and thus prisms were born! And they're very useful!
18:27	kristof	bitemyapp: I'm confused. What would the C represent in the sum type?
18:27	bitemyapp	kristof: the best of both worlds when using those libraries, as far as typed/untyped goes :D
18:27	kristof	The "entire" tagged union?
18:27	bitemyapp	kristof: yes.
18:27	kristof	Oh, everything makes sense now :P
18:27	technomancy	justin_smith: wow; geez
18:28	technomancy	patch to get vec to use into, I guess?
18:28	bitemyapp	kristof: the member constructors of the tagged union are the functions/arrows/morphisms pointing to C.
18:28	kristof	gotcha
18:28	kristof	I know basic category theory from my abstract algebra class
18:28	bitemyapp	kristof: if you're in the bay area, you should come to the type theory meetups!
18:29	kristof	I'm a couple of hours away
18:29	bitemyapp	anyway, I have to go, but I'll be around. leave me messages on my query if you like.
18:29	kristof	Alright, nice talking to you :)
18:29	mikerod	bitemyapp: thank you for that empirical input
18:29	bitemyapp	mikerod: justin's was better.
18:29	mikerod	bitemyapp: was gone a minute, didn't see there was more examples out there
18:30	mikerod	ah, good analysis
18:31	bitemyapp	mikerod: and amalloy
18:31	bitemyapp	although that change didn't change the outcome.
18:32	mikerod	well, then thank you justin_smith for the example :) and amalloy and technomancy for that matter
18:49	justin_smith	mikerod: np
18:49	justin_smith	technomancy: yeah, really anything in core building an associative collection should be using transients at this point - or dispatching to into which uses them
18:50	justin_smith	unless transients are still somehow unproven
18:53	technomancy	nah, with into using them I can't see that being the case
18:53	technomancy	there were a bunch of bugs early on, but that was like 1.2 days
18:53	mikerod	transients all the way down
18:55	adhollander	ls
18:55	lazybot	boot media proc src srv sys
19:03	arrdem	bitemyapp: well, I decided to get lazy on multi-PC sync. Lets see what Dropbox does with all of ~/doc...
19:51	bitemyapp	arrdem: just spent 30 minutes explaining Haskell to a coworker I kidnapped.
19:52	bitemyapp	arrdem: I don't use dropbox.
19:53	bitemyapp	arrdem: I'm always surprised when people use dropbox, then I remember normal people have things like "paperwork" and "documents"
19:56	Raynes	gfredericks: <3
19:57	bitemyapp	Raynes: zomg hare
19:57	Cr8	bitemyapp's corner of the office is the Haskell Dungeon
19:59	bitemyapp	Cr8: it's an open space office.
19:59	bitemyapp	Cr8: I'm not in the corner, I'm in a main thoroughfare. I'm the troll taking his toll.
19:59	Cr8	I'm imagining a sort of blanket fort
20:00	Cr8	a Haskell Troll Bridge works too
20:01	bitemyapp	Cr8: IT guy has tried really hard to get me to make it into a blanket fort.
20:01	bitemyapp	Cr8: he wanted me to use camo netting
20:01	Cr8	should add you to the office-themed text adventure I made a long time ago
20:01	bitemyapp	Cr8: throwing against Sphinx-like category theory questions?
20:01	bitemyapp	Cr8: WHAT IS THE CATEGORICAL DUAL OF PRODUCT?
20:01	bitemyapp	throwing saves*
20:02	Cr8	> The third floor is an open-plan office. This is unfortunate, as the Haskell Troll is able to spot you as you leave the staircase.
20:02	Raynes	bitemyapp: I use dropbox mostly for pictures.
20:02	Raynes	bitemyapp: My screenshots, for example, automatically go there.
20:02	bitemyapp	Raynes: I'm buddhist about my data.
20:02	bitemyapp	much easier.
20:03	Cr8	my photos go to dropbox
20:03	Cr8	because the i like the convenience of them just being on my computer by the time i'm arsed to care
20:04	justin_smith	I like to imagine there is a cobitemyapp on #haskell who brings up clojure at every juncture
20:04	Cr8	other than that it's all tax forms
20:04	technomancy	hehe
20:05	bitemyapp	justin_smith: I have some converts there, but they're already on the side of justice and morality.
20:06	justin_smith	so you are suggesting you are your own categorical dual?
20:06	bitemyapp	No.
20:06	bitemyapp	justin_smith: I don't advocate Clojure there, just not writing terrible code.
20:06	bitemyapp	same as here.
20:06	bitemyapp	I liked this quote from that channel, "<paper_ziggurat> clojure has a job market?"
20:08	bitemyapp	justin_smith: I'm searching the rather thorough Haskell IRC logs, the only nice things said about Clojure so far have been, "well. It's not Scala or Java."
20:08	justin_smith	heh
20:08	technomancy	"We have decided... that you are not orcs."
20:09	bitemyapp	justin_smith: I've got a couple of candidates for the title, but they're pretty weak sauce really :)
20:09	bitemyapp	technomancy: haha, love that moment.
20:10	bitemyapp	justin_smith: no wait, found him. monochrom.
20:10	bitemyapp	justin_smith: that's my dual.
20:10	bitemyapp	justin_smith: oddly, he's in there but not here. ?_?
20:11	locks	no point in preaching to the choir, right
20:12	bitemyapp	locks: well. I'm in #haskell to learn.
20:12	bitemyapp	locks: he must know everything about Clojure already.
20:12	Cr8	<monochrom> I don't know clojure. I cannot compare.
20:13	bitemyapp	Cr8: nuts. older quote had him saying Clojure is better than Haskell.
20:13	bitemyapp	justin_smith: n/m the
20:13	bitemyapp	then*
20:13	Cr8	that was 2013-12-26
20:13	bitemyapp	Cr8: well.
20:13	bitemyapp	I dunno.
20:15	locks	maybe they were just being humble
20:15	locks	the whole the more you know, the more you know you don’t know
20:15	Janiczek	Hi, is there some kind of "map" or "doseq" for core.logic goals? I'm puzzled on how to do this: https://gist.github.com/Janiczek/8429048
20:17	rsenior	bitemyapp: have you given much though to database migrations on a single datomic instance for brambling?
20:17	Janiczek	I see how that probably could be solved by some recursive goal, slicing the head of the map, converting it into the permuteo goal and then calling itself on the rest ... but maybe there's a better way?
20:18	rsenior	bitemyapp: or maybe that's what you mean with differential support?
20:18	bitemyapp	rsenior: single datomic instance?
20:18	bitemyapp	rsenior: that is almost certainly not what I mean by differential migrations.
20:19	bitemyapp	rsenior: differential migrations could also be called incremental or "catch-up" migrations.
20:19	bitemyapp	rsenior: they catch-up the 'difference' between the origin and the target incrementally.
20:19	bitemyapp	rsenior: origin and target can be on the same Datomic instance.
20:20	rsenior	bitemyapp: ah, maybe that's what I was missing
20:20	bitemyapp	rsenior: I cannot change the way Datomic works and I do not feel comfortable reaching into the internals when the jars are obfuscated.
20:21	bitemyapp	rsenior: as much as I'd like things to be some "other way", I really think the worrying over migrations is unmerited. Very few people have enough data that having a temporary copy of the database on disk is going to hurt anything.
20:21	rsenior	bitemyapp: so last week's version of my schema had a :foo/bar attribute, this week I want to add :foo/baz
20:21	bitemyapp	rsenior: if you're adding things you don't need brambling.
20:22	rsenior	bitemyapp: ok changing :-), I imagine I will do a fair bit of that, sounds like I just use origin and target as the same with brambling?
20:22	bitemyapp	rsenior: perhaps you mean something like renaming the attribute from bar to baz?
20:22	rsenior	bitemyapp: exactly
20:22	bitemyapp	rsenior: you write a migration that renames datoms with the attribute ident to the new one.
20:22	bitemyapp	rsenior: it copies all the data over, filtered through your migration, bada bing.
20:23	bitemyapp	rsenior: archive a backup of the origin, then delete from your database if you like.
20:23	bitemyapp	maybe brambling finally gets a user?
20:24	rsenior	bitemyapp: heh, last datomic app I worked on, we rolled our own (closed source, no longer working for them), now working on another app and it would be nice to build on something
20:24	bitemyapp	rsenior: plz do.
20:24	bitemyapp	rsenior: and if you reverse engineer the godforsaken jars so we can add in-place
20:24	bitemyapp	migrations, let me know.
20:24	bitemyapp	;)
20:25	rsenior	bitemyapp: so the model is, create a new db, migrate datoms, drop old db, move back?
20:25	bitemyapp	rsenior: yeah and differential migrations are a way of narrowing the maintenance to something possibly programmatic.
20:26	bitemyapp	that's a discussion I'm a whiskey bottle away from having though.
20:26	bitemyapp	rsenior: look at it this way, the namespace is "brambling.moves.ya.bits.*"...pretty indicative.
20:27	rsenior	seems like it would be a big deal for bigger dbs, mine won't be
20:27	bitemyapp	rsenior: Right. I think it could be made manageable for larger dbs.
20:27	bitemyapp	catch-up migrations can make the 'shutdown and flip over' window very small with no lost data or race conditions.
20:28	bitemyapp	but that option only really exists because the data is an immutable log
20:28	bitemyapp	so, Hail Hickey for that one.
20:29	rsenior	bitemyapp: what would be the difficulty for user defined differential?
20:29	bitemyapp	rsenior: it wouldn't have to be user defined, purely automagic.
20:29	bitemyapp	rsenior: uhhh...partial migrations that understand when they're just catching up the history of the tx log with the same migration that got the ball rolling to begin with.
20:30	bitemyapp	rsenior: figured out the set point in the tx log that the last migration stopped at and picked things up from there.
20:30	bitemyapp	ideal being to continually/incrementally reduce origin/target delta until a "lockdown" of the origin would take a second or two.
20:30	bitemyapp	or at least a minute or something. you'd propagate the new dburi to the peers.
20:30	bitemyapp	cache warming could be an issue.
20:31	bitemyapp	yadda yadda.
20:31	rsenior	bitemyapp: but that still requires manual intervention of creating a new db, switching over etc
20:31	rsenior	I'm thinking about how I use relational db migrations
20:31	rsenior	I have a list of "revisions" of the db
20:31	bitemyapp	well that part does
20:31	rsenior	store that version info in the db
20:31	bitemyapp	implementing the differential migrations doesn't
20:32	bitemyapp	and it could still be automated modulo peer configuration.
20:32	bitemyapp	rsenior: people do that sort of thing "in the small" with Datomic in production, I think it's complete and utter gobshite.
20:32	rsenior	on startup, hey, I'm on v2, I need to be on v5, so I execute the v3, then v4, then v5 migrations
20:32	bitemyapp	rsenior: I do not want my time-dimension queries to get fucked by fields getting shuffled around
20:32	bitemyapp	meaning my queries cannot cross migration barriers.
20:32	bitemyapp	nuts to that. I'd rather use brambling.
20:33	bitemyapp	it's a simple fold. Really.
20:33	rsenior	bitemyapp: not following, how is creating a new db change that?
20:33	rsenior	that is drops the old data?
20:34	bitemyapp	I'm talking about when people want to change a data type
20:34	bitemyapp	instead of actually migrating the data
20:34	rsenior	ok, walk me through that
20:34	bitemyapp	they add a "new" attribute
20:34	bitemyapp	:myCar = "blah" gets changed to an enum or something
20:34	rsenior	got it
20:34	bitemyapp	the problem is when you add that new attribute to the schema and flip the application code over
20:34	bitemyapp	you have a breakpoint in your history that your queries cannot traverse
20:34	bitemyapp	so you have to maintain two versions of your queries.
20:35	bitemyapp	Bleh.
20:35	rsenior	right, unless you write a migration
20:35	bitemyapp	You write a migration and handling mapping your stringly values to an enum, and everything's kosher. All the history is intact and consistent.
20:35	bitemyapp	handle*
20:35	rsenior	ok, so a list of schema migrations, with a possible fn that does data migrations?
20:36	rsenior	then I don't need another db?
20:36	bitemyapp	rsenior: have you looked at the code in Brambling's readme?
20:36	rsenior	I did
20:36	bitemyapp	okay. That
20:36	bitemyapp	That's all I would ever advise doing.
20:36	bitemyapp	(origin -> target) - translate the data.
20:36	bitemyapp	whether you agree or not is your maintenance burden.
20:37	bitemyapp	Brambling is basically all I have to say for the time being about Datomic migrations. I literally haven't heard a single other thing (from Cognitect or otherwise) that I'd advise anybody to do.
20:38	rsenior	ok, I understand, your opinion is it's best to always migrate to a new db, that's fair
20:38	rsenior	I don't have an opinion to the contrary, just thinking about what would be involved in a new "deploy" of my app
20:39	bitemyapp	rsenior: easiest thing is shut the app down, migrate the database, archive, delete, repoint, start.
20:39	bitemyapp	or just leave the old one in place if the storage is trivial.
20:39	bitemyapp	then you can run differential functional tests to reproduce possible problems arising from migrations.
20:39	bitemyapp	which is another reason I'm not that keen on mutative migrations
20:40	bitemyapp	if you don't want to ever shut your app down, then start queuing your transactions and queries or never change your data.
20:41	rsenior	bitemyapp: I'll give it a try, I'm still in the early stages, so it'll be more test-like, but I'll try out one of those cycles
20:41	bitemyapp	I would kill for some youtube vitess/vitocc-esque middleware for Datomic.
20:42	bitemyapp	rsenior: let me know if it eats your data and eggs your mother's house.
20:42	thedarkside	Beginner. How do you guys go about remembering the 591 functions in clojure.core?
20:42	bitemyapp	thedarkside: writing code
20:42	bitemyapp	thedarkside: using clojuredocs.org
20:43	thedarkside	That's worse than PHP. Well, almost.
20:43	bitemyapp	thedarkside: too bad there's no hoogle for Clojure :(
20:43	bitemyapp	"worse than PHP" hahahahahaha
20:43	thedarkside	I mean memorising them, not looking them up.
20:44	thedarkside	You can't use a function you don't know exists or what it does.
20:44	bitemyapp	thedarkside: http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/wsmashin/v1r1m1/index.jsp?topic=/zero.infocenter.singlebook.doc/using/zero.php/CoreFunctions.html
20:44	bitemyapp	arrdem: what's the find command?
20:45	thedarkside	bitemyapp: I was only joking.
20:45	bitemyapp	$findfn 1 2
20:45	thedarkside	No, I'm not trolling. What memorisation techniques do you use?
20:45	lazybot	[clojure.core/unchecked-inc-int clojure.core/unchecked-inc clojure.core/inc clojure.core/inc']
20:45	bitemyapp	thedarkside: ding ding ^^
20:46	bitemyapp	$findfn [[1] [2]] [1 2]
20:46	lazybot	[clojure.core/flatten]
20:46	bitemyapp	thedarkside: again ^^
20:46	bitemyapp	thedarkside: I don't memorize things. If I'm using Hoogle I search by type. If I'm using Clojure I use findfn or I simply remember because I've been using Clojure a lot for some time now.
20:46	bitemyapp	I do have memorization techniques, I don't apply them to any of this.
20:47	hyPiRion	thedarkside: Using a decent repl with autocompletion in conjunction with the clojure cheatsheet is nice
20:47	thedarkside	To get the full benefit of Clojure surely they have to be internalised at some point?
20:48	hyPiRion	It's generally about applying them which makes me remember them. That, or the fact that some of them makes no sense
20:48	bitemyapp	thedarkside: sorta not really? hyPiRion's suggestion is solid.
20:48	bitemyapp	thedarkside: the benefits of FP don't have a lot to do with core libraries, although some are better designed than others. Haskell > Clojure > Scala
21:08	hiredman	map/mapcat/reduce/assoc/dissoc/update-in/inc do you really use anything else?
21:09	xuser	partial, comp, repeteadly
21:13	hyPiRion	for, into
21:19	gfredericks	Raynes: <3?
21:19	gfredericks	I don't mind a <3 or two but it seemed a bit unprovoked
21:20	seangrove	,(doc seq?)
21:20	clojurebot	"([x]); Return true if x implements ISeq"
21:21	gfredericks	,(seq? nil)
21:21	clojurebot	false
21:22	arrdem	bitemyapp: oh. lol. I thought you were talking about POSIX find
21:23	arrdem	$findfn is part of the clojurebot black magic...
21:24	arrdem	also $findfn doesn't come with the function warnings... such as how (flatten) is rarely actually what you want...
21:35	logic_prog	clojure is awesome
21:35	logic_prog	anyone disagree?
21:35	hyPiRion	the best channel to ask that question, I guess.
21:35	logic_prog	completely unbiasaed
21:35	arrdem	hyPiRion: least biased to be sure...
21:36	logic_prog	highest IQ people too
21:36	logic_prog	the only possible thing that could convince me that #clojure has gotten smarter
21:36	logic_prog	would be if it granted me ops
21:37	arrdem	logic_prog: .... you realize that in the five year history of this chan there have only ever been two ops, right?
21:37	arrdem	three if you count chanserv
21:37	logic_prog	arrdem: only two?
21:37	hyPiRion	arrdem: four then? rhickey, chouser and technomancy?
21:37	arrdem	hyPiRion: oh I didn't know chouser had op
21:37	logic_prog	rhickey (clojure_ and technomancy (lein) I know about
21:37	logic_prog	what has chouser done?
21:38	arrdem	yeah this isn't #atx2600 where everyone gets op every few months since our op management system is that anyone misbehaving gets smacked at the next meetup.
21:46	bitemyapp	arrdem: findfn is lazybot.
21:46	bitemyapp	logic_prog: I can find a smarter channel
21:47	bitemyapp	no the answer isn't #haskell
21:47	bitemyapp	that said, there are still a lot of smart and very awesome people.
21:47	bitemyapp	it's my favorite channel still.
21:48	bitemyapp	although Cale is turning the tide for #haskell on that front.
21:48	bitemyapp	arrdem: still on electronic leave?
21:49	arrdem	bitemyapp: up to date on my homework, I can do a game of two but I'm calling it by 11 Central
21:50	bitemyapp	arrdem: deal.
21:53	bitemyapp	arrdem: I'm in your mumble, not the minetexas one.
22:04	Bronsa	,
22:04	Bronsa	(loop [x (Integer. 1)] (if (number? x) (recur "foo") (.hashCode x))
22:04	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
22:04	Bronsa	,(loop [x (Integer. 1)] (if (number? x) (recur "foo") (.hashCode x))
22:04	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
22:05	Bronsa	,(loop [x (Integer. 1)] (if (number? x) (recur "foo") (.hashCode x)))
22:05	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Integer>
22:05	Bronsa	,(loop [x 1] (if (number? x) (recur "foo") (.hashCode x)))
22:05	clojurebot	101574
22:05	Bronsa	:(
22:07	logic_prog	does cljs support find-ns, create-ns, ns-resolve, var-get, and intern ? if so, what namesapce is it in?
22:10	maravillas	logic_prog: searching the repo suggests none of those are implemented yet
22:12	seancorfield	maravillas: presumably because cljs does not use the Var indirection that clj uses...
22:13	logic_prog	thus, what are the cljs equivalent for namespaces?
22:15	seancorfield	namespaces compile down into js objects i think
22:19	quizdr	if I enter (find-doc #"\?$") at the REPL, what exactly is the argument there, starting with the #? Because I can just use a string for (find-doc "reduce"), for example, with no # character
22:20	seancorfield	#"..." is a regex in clojure
22:20	seancorfield	"..." is a string
22:20	seancorfield	,(source find-doc)
22:20	clojurebot	Source not found\n
22:20	seancorfield	bah!
22:21	quizdr	ah, i get it
22:34	seancorfield	,(doc find-doc)
22:34	clojurebot	"([re-string-or-pattern]); Prints documentation for any var whose documentation or name contains a match for re-string-or-pattern"
22:36	bendb	,(keys (ns-publics ns))
22:36	clojurebot	nil
22:37	seancorfield	according to the source for find-doc, it always treats the argument as a regex pattern, by calling re-pattern on it
22:37	seancorfield	,(doc re-pattern)
22:37	clojurebot	"([s]); Returns an instance of java.util.regex.Pattern, for use, e.g. in re-matcher."
23:08	ddellacosta	is there a way to specify a set of defaults for all builds in lein-cljsbuild?
23:10	alew	technomancy: are the instructions for new relic clojure support up to date? I'm not getting any results on the new relic dashboard but it is registering the app was deployed
23:11	quizdr	since all vars are immutable, it is possible to return a closure over a local var that increments it each time the closure fn is called? similar to this CL: (defparameter lfn
23:11	quizdr	(let ((count 0))
23:11	quizdr	#'(lambda ()
23:11	quizdr	(incf count))))
23:12	quizdr	every time (funcall lfn) is called a new incremented number is returned
23:12	quizdr	when I try this in Clojure, I get the error that the local var is immutable
23:14	bja	(let [counter (atom 0)] #(swap! counter inc))
23:14	quizdr	ah, so i'd use an atom as a local
23:15	bja	you could also define the var as dynamic I guess
23:15	bja	but I don't think anyone would recommend that you do that
23:15	S11001001	hope not
23:17	quizdr	since clojure.string/split returns a non-lazy vector, if I was calling this in a very large amount of text and wanted a lazy result, would I simply wrap it in lazy-seq?
23:19	bja	quizdr, probably something like (re-seq #"\w+" ...)
23:21	quizdr	looks like re-seq uses lazy-seq in its implementatino
23:24	dnolen	a guide to the ClojureScript analyzer/compiler http://swannodette.github.io/2014/01/14/clojurescript-analysis--compilation/
23:26	ddellacosta	getting java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space with source maps, but compiles fine without source maps. Not sure how to resolve this--anyone have any suggestions?
23:27	ddellacosta	dnolen: very cool, look forward to digging into it!
23:27	dnolen	ddellacosta: increase memory to the JVM with :jvm-opts
23:27	dnolen	^{:replace true} is important
23:28	ddellacosta	dnolen: okay, I've already bumped it to 1GB and it still didn't work, will bump it up some more. Will look into ^{:replace true}, thanks for the tips!
23:28	dnolen	ddellacosta: :replace is important otherwise won't work
23:28	ddellacosta	dnolen: ah, okay
23:43	rubber-duck	anyone knows why I'm getting "clojure.lang.ExceptionInfo: No implementation of method: :emit-instruction of protocol: #'cljs.core.async.impl.ioc-macros/IEmittableInstruction found for class: cljs.core.async.impl.ioc_macros.Jmp" in core.async go block ?
23:43	rubber-duck	here is a gist :https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8430856
23:43	rubber-duck	it's clojurescript btw
23:45	dnolen	rubber-duck: might be a legit core.async bug I would make a minimal case
23:46	rubber-duck	dnolen, does the code at least look legit ?
23:46	rubber-duck	I'm still new to clojure I could be missing something obvious :)
23:50	egghead	is it related to <!remote on line 17?
23:51	rubber-duck	<!remote is just a macro that expands to (result (<! (rpc ...)))