#clojure – 2013-12-27

2013-12-27

00:00	rhg135	i get what js is but it doesn't actually send it
00:01	rhg135	i'm stumped
00:02	rhg135	it's actually logging everything, just not sending it or blocking a second request works fine
00:02	rhg135	well not fine but it does log for it
00:11	rhg135	any ideas why that .write call isn't writing to the client?
00:26	jebberjeb	ls
00:26	lazybot	bin data lib lost+found media proc sbin swap sys var
00:46	ianeslick	Has anyone dealt with using macros in a file used in both clojure and clojurescript?
00:46	ianeslick	i.e. ^:shared ns
00:47	ianeslick	I'm guessing that unless I use something like cljx, there is no way to conditionally use :require-macros only in the clojurescript case?
01:46	ddellacosta	bitemyapp: ping
02:28	v4n	If I want to set a local variable within a defn (e.g. system time), would using let be my best choice?
02:29	rhg135	Yup
02:30	v4n	Any way to avoid having to wrap my entire function body with let for just setting the local time variable?
02:30	rhg135	Well not variable as it doesn't vary usually
02:30	v4n	*Scope
02:31	rhg135	Not that I know
03:34	sveri	hi, i trying to figure out whats the best way to convert a vector like this [1 2 3 4 5 6] into a string like this: "1,2 3,4 5,6"? should i just use loop/recur or one of the helper functions?
03:38	sm0ke	,(clojure.string/join "," [1 2 3 4 5 6])
03:38	clojurebot	"1,2,3,4,5,6"
03:39	TEttinger	sveri, with every other pair having a comma separating them?
03:41	sveri	sm0ke: i only need commas between pairs
03:41	TEttinger	&(clojure.string/join " " (mapv #(clojure.string/join "," %) (partition-all 2 [1 2 3 4 5 6])))
03:41	lazybot	⇒ "1,2 3,4 5,6"
03:42	sveri	TEttinger: ah, thats nice, thank you :-)
03:42	TEttinger	np
03:46	rhg135	Any reason for mapv?
03:47	rhg135	As opposed to just map
03:49	ddellacosta	rhg135: lazy sequence vs. vector?
03:50	rhg135	It doesn't affect join?
03:50	rhg135	Or does it
03:50	ddellacosta	rhg135: I assume join is going to realize the sequence, so doesn't really matter in that context I suppose
03:51	rhg135	I guess not
03:51	ddellacosta	or rather, join does realize it, to be clear
03:54	TEttinger	rhg135, I used mapv to make clear that it wasn't going to produce lazy output
03:55	TEttinger	they're very similar on performance, right?
04:25	sm0ke	java sucks
04:26	sm0ke	cant seem to find an equivalent of promise for last 2 hours
04:36	Raynes	$google java.util.concurrent.FutureTask
04:36	lazybot	[FutureTask (Java Platform SE 7 ) - Oracle Documentation] http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/FutureTask.html
04:36	Raynes	sm0ke: ^
04:36	Raynes	Oh, promise.
04:36	Raynes	Wow. Somehow I managed to see 'future'
04:36	Raynes	Apologies.
04:38	sm0ke	hmm i guess
04:38	sm0ke	Future can be used very much to copy promise
04:39	sm0ke	in some ways
04:39	sm0ke	it infact has set and get which would behave the same i guess
04:40	sm0ke	only clojure makes distinction between future and promise
04:41	sm0ke	hmm sensible developers should have named methods for Promise as kept, broken etc. Seems like a very sensitive api to have
04:41	sm0ke	explains why its not there
06:05	nones	,t
06:05	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: t in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
06:05	nones	,foo
06:05	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: foo in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
06:32	daGrevis	Hello! I'm doing Clojure koans
06:32	daGrevis	http://vpaste.net/qRWeT What's wrong with this?
06:33	hyPiRion	daGrevis: What is (+ 1 2 3) in Clojure?
06:34	daGrevis	hyPiRion, lazy expr?
06:34	nones	daGrevis: you need to compare lists, (0 1 2 3 4 5) not list
06:34	hyPiRion	daGrevis: It's an expression, where the function `+` is evaluated on the arguments 1, 2 and 3
06:34	hyPiRion	with the arguments, rather
06:36	daGrevis	so I guess the correct answer is http://vpaste.net/MikBn
06:36	daGrevis	or at least I pass ;D
06:36	ddima	no
06:36	ddima	what hyPiRion tries to say: by default the first element of a list is interpreted as the function to be invoked with the rest being arguments
06:37	nones	,(0 1)
06:37	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
06:37	ddima	so you need to make clojure look at it as a "pure" list and not invoke anything
06:37	nones	,(list 0 1)
06:37	clojurebot	(0 1)
06:37	ddima	sorry, pure is a bad word, "simple"
06:37	ddima	,`(0 1)
06:37	clojurebot	(0 1)
06:37	hyPiRion	daGrevis: Unless you explicitly tell a lisp to not evaluate the list, it will be evaluated
06:37	daGrevis	to tell it not to eval it, I say '(something) ?
06:38	ddima	` is shorthand for quote
06:38	ddima	,(quote (1 2 3))
06:38	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
06:38	hyPiRion	daGrevis: Exactly! quote, or ', will avoid evaluation
06:39	ddima	or, as nones pasted before, you can use the "list" function
06:39	ddima	,(= `(0 1 2 3) (for [x (range 4)] x))
06:39	clojurebot	true
06:39	daGrevis	hyPiRion, I learned Haskell a bit before. everything is lazy in it by default. so in Clojure everything is NOT lazy unless you say it to be lazy? mm?
06:39	hyPiRion	`, or backquote, will do something similar, but that's not neccessary to know before you go into macros
06:39	Raynes	&'(0 1)
06:39	lazybot	⇒ (0 1)
06:40	daGrevis	,(= '(1) `(1))
06:40	clojurebot	true
06:40	hyPiRion	daGrevis: evaluation of code is not lazy, but generally, list operations will be
06:40	daGrevis	thank you, guys :)
06:40	ddima	hf
06:40	hyPiRion	daGrevis: so (foo a b) will always be called, but e.g. (map + '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6)) will produce a so-called lazy sequence
06:40	ddima	hyPiRion: you're a natural teacher ;)
06:41	hyPiRion	ddima: oh what, that's a first
06:41	daGrevis	hyPiRion, I think I got it, thanks :)
06:41	hyPiRion	thanks I guess =) / :p
06:41	nones	but remember:
06:41	nones	,(= `(0 1 (+ 1 1) 3) (for [x (range 4)] x))
06:41	clojurebot	false
06:41	nones	,(= (list 0 1 (+ 1 1) 3) (for [x (range 4)] x))
06:41	clojurebot	true
06:42	ddima	well, i liked how you tried to help him find his own answer while explaining the the mechanics
06:42	ddima	instead of "quote/list, neext" ;)
06:43	daGrevis	many ways to do a thing, pretty weird for a python dev ;d
06:43	ddima	not really
06:43	ddima	prefer list for that
06:43	hyPiRion	ddima: oh yeah, it's a good way of learning stuff I think.
06:44	daGrevis	,(= list(1 2) '(1 2))
06:44	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
06:44	daGrevis	yelp! :D
06:44	deadghost	idk feels like clojure gives some guidance
06:44	deadghost	by making some things more difficult
06:44	daGrevis	woah sorry
06:45	daGrevis	,(= (list 1 2) '(1 2))
06:45	clojurebot	true
06:45	daGrevis	there :)
06:46	ddima	used to happen to me all the time, $functionname($args) thing in clojure ;)
06:46	ddima	muscle memory
06:50	logic_prog	does keyword destructuring i.e. (let [{:keys [foo bar]} {:foo 20}] ... ) provide a way to provide a _default_ value
06:51	logic_prog	i.e. I want bar to be bound to "0" rather than "nil" when there is no key for bar
06:52	hyPiRion	logic_prog: yes, you can use the :or keyword. For instance, ##(let [{:keys [foo bar] :or {bar 0}} {:foo 20}] {:foo foo :bar bar})
06:52	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: in this context
06:52	hyPiRion	,##(let [{:keys [foo bar] :or {bar 0}} {:foo 20}] {:foo foo :bar bar})
06:52	lazybot	⇒ {:foo 20, :bar 0}
06:52	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Reader tag must be a symbol>
06:52	hyPiRion	heh, whoops
06:53	logic_prog	hyPiRion: nice, thanks!
06:55	logic_prog	hyPiRion: do you have any cool clojure projects on github?
06:57	hyPiRion	logic_prog: depends on what you mean by cool. I mostly contribute to Leiningen either directly or indirectly through plugins
06:58	logic_prog	ah, I just remember seeing you here quite a bit
06:58	logic_prog	and was curious if there were any projects whose code I could learn from
06:58	logic_prog	(the other day, I learned "lein pdo" and it changed the way I use lein)
07:02	hyPiRion	logic_prog: well, Leiningen isn't a good place to learn idiomatic Clojure, because it's not your usual Clojure program.
07:08	hyPiRion	To be fair, I'm not sure what a good library to learn from is. Perhaps starting with https://github.com/weavejester/medley or https://github.com/flatland/useful, as they are rather easy to read.
07:12	hyPiRion	but the best is to code much, and when you need to use a library, attempt to understand what's going on behind the covers if you got time
07:12	logic_prog	hyPiRion: oh, by "learn from", I didn't mean learn clojure
07:12	logic_prog	but rather "a nice library I can pull in that may be useful"
07:12	logic_prog	for example, my current project.clj has 22 dependencies
07:12	logic_prog	but always looking for cool clojure _libraries_ to learn to use,
07:12	logic_prog	not actually learn how to write clojure code :-)
07:13	hyPiRion	aha
07:13	logic_prog	so for example, learning core.logic was awesome
07:13	logic_prog	as was match / ring / compojure
07:14	hyPiRion	instaparse is good
07:15	logic_prog	i found it really slow at parsec to be better
07:15	logic_prog	i never understood why anyone wanted _all parses_ rather than make the grammar unambigious
07:15	logic_prog	it goes against a fundamental principle of CS
07:15	logic_prog	don't be ambigious
07:16	arrdem	... wat
07:16	arrdem	you can totally define an ambiguous grammar that has meaning in multiple parse trees
07:16	logic_prog	yeah
07:16	logic_prog	but when is this iseful in practice?
07:16	arrdem	now will a sane grammar be unambiguous? sure, but that's a performance tweak usually.
07:17	logic_prog	no, see packrat parsing
07:17	arrdem	logic_prog: natural language :/
07:17	logic_prog	you take a CFG, then specify precedence
07:17	logic_prog	and boom, no ambiguity
07:17	hyPiRion	environ is also nice to know of, although I tend to use edn for environment vars these days
07:17	logic_prog	arrdem: for that, you need probabilistic techniques
07:18	arrdem	logic_prog: I mean to do it "right" sure, but how is probabalistic analysis any different from having multiple ambiguous yielded trees?
07:18	logic_prog	they have probabilites associated with them
07:18	hyPiRion	logic_prog: the instaparse perf isn't good, true, but I find it useful for mocking up parsers
07:18	logic_prog	and generally, you can prune stuff
07:19	hyPiRion	(Okay when you have deadlines and stuff)
07:20	arrdem	hyPiRion: instaparse is amazing when you want a parser yesterday for a well defined language.
07:20	arrdem	Eg. Pascal or Scheme or something else you just want to plug and chug with a BNF on
07:20	arrdem	s/on/for/
07:45	bitemyapp	bwahahaha...plans are made...another soul gets converted tonight...
07:47	bitemyapp	arrdem: hey I'm not the one making snake-oil in code form >:D
07:48	arrdem	bitemyapp: dogecoin is totally legit I don't know what you're talking about
07:48	bitemyapp	arrdem: I actually meant snake oil => anticipating the sine wave
07:48	bitemyapp	arrdem: but I'm VERY curious to see how the returns, even if not large in magnitude, come out quantitatively
07:49	bitemyapp	WRT alpha, overall risk, etc.
07:49	arrdem	bitemyapp: haha yeah I'm still trying to get a handle on the problem so I can throw a neural network at it :P
07:49	bitemyapp	wat
07:51	arrdem	bitemyapp: it's like throwing a brick at something, except that when iterated the brick eventually figures it's stuff out and hits its mark
07:58	arrdem	bitemyapp: sillyness asside I'm working on slapping togehter a logging system so that I can do some testing and answer those questions before going live.
08:15	pepijndevos	So persistent datastructures in JS, nothing stops silly JS libs from setting modifiying them, right?
08:15	pandeiro	anybody working with datomic-console? i'm trying to get it set up for datomic-free; no luck so far
08:16	daGrevis	,(map + (1 2))
08:16	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
08:16	daGrevis	why it doesn't work?
08:17	arrdem	daGrevis: you want to use [] for a sequence literal.
08:17	daGrevis	in short, I want to get sum of list
08:17	hyPiRion	daGrevis: (list 1 2) vs. (1 2)
08:17	arrdem	daGrevis: by writing (1 2) you are saying (apply 1 2) which makes no sense
08:17	daGrevis	,(map + (list 1 2))
08:17	clojurebot	(1 2)
08:17	daGrevis	:/
08:17	daGrevis	okay, i got rid of error
08:17	daGrevis	thought exepected result was 3
08:17	arrdem	daGrevis: check out reduce
08:17	nones	,(reduce + (list 1 2))
08:17	clojurebot	3
08:18	daGrevis	right! i knew about reduce, just didn't thought to use it :)
08:18	daGrevis	i present to u my first code in clojure
08:18	daGrevis	,(reduce + (filter #(zero? (mod % 3)) (filter #(zero? (mod % 5)) (range 1 999))))
08:18	clojurebot	33165
08:19	daGrevis	do u like it? :D
08:21	hyPiRion	daGrevis: Good start :)
08:22	gilles	hi can anybody answer a basic core.logic question ?
08:22	hyPiRion	Just fyi, (range a b) would return all elements from a up to, but not including b.
08:23	hyPiRion	,(last (range 1 100))
08:23	clojurebot	99
08:23	hyPiRion	~anybody
08:23	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
08:25	nones	,anybody
08:25	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: anybody in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
08:25	gilles	I declare a "parent" defrel and then some facts about joe is parent of suzy etc... how can i find pairs of persons which are not in a parent relationship ?
08:25	nones	~anybody
08:25	clojurebot	anybody is anyone
08:26	arrdem	nones: ~ invokes an inference and pattern matching system
08:26	arrdem	nones: , evals code
08:26	daGrevis	hyPiRion, how is it related to my code?
08:28	hyPiRion	daGrevis: If you want to find the sum of all the multiples of 3 or 5 below 1000, you should do (range 1 1000) instead. Just have a suspicion that's what you wanted to do.
08:30	daGrevis	hyPiRion, imo below 1000 means 999 and NOT 1000
08:31	daGrevis	hyPiRion, but you are right about me currently finding sum of numbers that are mod 3 and mod 5. i need OR conditional
08:31	hyPiRion	daGrevis: (range 1 1000) returns (1 2 3 ... 997 998 999)
08:31	hyPiRion	and yeah, I was about to mention that, but I guess you figured =)
08:31	daGrevis	hyPiRion, imo I could fix it by creating two lazy lists, then filtering both. one my mod 3 and other by mod 5. the I merge em and get sum like before.
08:32	hyPiRion	daGrevis: yep, that's a good idea. Just remember to remove duplicates
08:32	daGrevis	hyPiRion, so the question is: is 0 a natural number because wikipedia isn't super sure :D
08:32	daGrevis	hyPiRion, good point about removing duplicates
08:34	hyPiRion	daGrevis: Whether 0 is a natural number or not isn't that important in this case. 0 + x = x, so it wouldn't change your result
08:34	daGrevis	you are right
08:35	daGrevis	yes, set up lein exec. much better :)
08:40	daGrevis	hyPiRion, thanks, just understand what you meant
08:40	daGrevis	if I write (range 999), it really gives me 998 as last elem
08:41	hyPiRion	yup
08:41	daGrevis	so I present the solution to you :)
08:41	daGrevis	http://vpaste.net/6d24h
08:41	daGrevis	dunno if I get how to indent corretly thought
08:41	hyPiRion	daGrevis: yup, that looks correct :)
08:41	instilled	does someone have a working clojure/nrepl/emacs debugging setup and would be willing to share some insights? i'm currently bbatsov's excellent prelude. is ritz-* still the way to go? i can debug with eclipse or intellij but that's not really what I want.
08:45	hyPiRion	daGrevis: most editors support some sort of autoindentation, but I wouldn't worry too much about it right now
08:47	daGrevis	I guess this indentation looks more decent http://vpaste.net/Sp8lv
08:47	daGrevis	hyPiRion, ye, I guess. I'm using Vim with Vim-clojure
08:48	daGrevis	hyPiRion, http://i.imgur.com/hMa8UZD.jpg
08:50	hyPiRion	daGrevis: not a guru on vim, but I think `filetype plugin indent on` should help you on the autoindentation
08:51	daGrevis	hyPiRion, u r correct and ft is on. i got niceties like autocomplete from standard lib. this doesn't change the fact that indentation doesn't work. ;D maybe it's turned off by default because Lisp and parens and something. gotta google
08:52	gphilippart	here
08:52	gphilippart	can anyone answer a core.logic question on relations ?
08:53	AimHere	We don't know. The best way to ask a question on IRC is to blurt it out and wait
08:54	AimHere	Unless all you wanted to know if anyone could answer a core.logic question on relations, in which case, we don't know. Depends on the question.
08:54	gphilippart	how do you find answers which do not satisfy a relation in core logic ?
08:57	AimHere	Not sure that's in general possible - this is some old musings on the subject, David Nolen being the guy who should know everything to know about core.logic: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/hz63yeQfiQE
08:59	gphilippart	thanks for the heads up, that's the topic i was looking for
09:05	gphilippart	so, the answer is : it's possible since David added nafc in core logic to support Negation as a failure.
09:11	AimHere	gphilippart, well you'll have to refer to the current state of core.logic for that; last time I looked at core.logic, tthere were sweeping changes that broke all the tutorials!
09:17	turbopape	Hi people,
09:17	turbopape	did anyone write something real-time in clojure ?
09:18	turbopape	I mean, tiny servers that do content transformation on the fly, namely... ?
09:18	turbopape	any pointers that can help ?
09:30	broquaint	turbopape: Something like this? https://github.com/schani/clojurec
09:32	turbopape	broquaint maybe, but is this ready for production yet ?
09:39	broquaint	No idea I'm afraid.
09:48	pepijndevos	Why doesn't this work in clojurescript? (.indexOf [1 2 3] 2)
09:49	hyPiRion	turbopape, broquaint: No, not production ready.
09:49	pepijndevos	Intended result: 1, like [1,2,3].indexOf(2)
09:50	turbopape	ok...
09:51	BobSchack	pepijndevos [1 2 3] is a clojurescript vector not a javascript array
09:51	glosoli	pepijndevos: Isn't indexOf meant for String type ?
09:51	glosoli	ah sorry :)
09:51	pepijndevos	BobSchack, but it doesn't give an exception, just nil.
09:52	pepijndevos	Which suggests indeOf is defined to do something
09:52	justin_smith	pepijndevos: I think that is becuase [1 2 3] is not a javascript array
09:53	justin_smith	it is a clojurescript immutible vector
09:53	hyPiRion	Doesn't explain why .indexOf is prototyped though.
09:53	pepijndevos	I know that. Question is, how do I get the index of an element from it
09:54	BobSchack	pepijndevos: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/nth
09:54	pepijndevos	And if Clojurescript is anything like Clojure, its collections implement the native interfaces.
09:54	pepijndevos	BobSchack, that's the other way around. I HAVE an item, I WANT its index.
09:54	BobSchack	oh my mistake
09:56	pepijndevos	Maybe I should hack an implementation using keep-indexed
09:57	justin_smith	pepijndevos: I don't know why they don't implement .indexOf, but clearly they don't. Doing it with native clojure functions is possible I guess.
09:58	hyPiRion	(ffirst (keep-indexed #(if (= item %2) %1) coll)) -- poor man's indexOf
09:59	hyPiRion	ur, an f too much there
09:59	pepijndevos	yea
09:59	pepijndevos	I was wondering.. do you return a seq?
09:59	justin_smith	(first (keep-indexed #(if (= %2 2) %1) [1 2 3])) works in cljs-fiddle
09:59	pepijndevos	yea, I independently arrived at the exact same code :)
10:00	pepijndevos	though I'm curious what the .indexOf is doing...
10:01	justin_smith	I think under the hood in most javascript an "array" is really a hash-map from index to value with numeric keys
10:02	justin_smith	likely something very similar to the code above actually
10:16	Wild_Cat	justin_smith: really? Interesting, that sounds... Baroque.
10:16	hyPiRion	sounds efficient
10:16	justin_smith	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/365975/how-are-javascript-arrays-implemented
10:18	Wild_Cat	thanks for the info
10:18	Wild_Cat	hyPiRion: efficient? Sounds more like wasteful of memory and slower to iterate over to me.
10:19	Wild_Cat	...although I just now realized that Javascript doesn't have foreach-type iteration.
10:19	hyPiRion	Wild_Cat: Sorry, it's hard to convey sarcasm over the Internet :p
10:19	Wild_Cat	hyPiRion: ooh. Also note that I haven't had my morning coffee yet, which makes it harder for me to sense it :D
10:19	justin_smith	arrays are defined to behaviors of "objects" AKA hash-maps with magic attached
10:20	justin_smith	(defined by the js spec that is)
10:24	rovar	whatevs: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Int32Array?redirectlocale=en-US&redirectslug=Web%2FJavaScript%2FTyped_arrays%2FInt32Array
10:27	justin_smith	rovar: I am unfamiliar with mdn formatting - if there are no compatibility notes does that imply only mozilla based browsers, or all browsers?
10:30	rovar	justin_smith: it's any browser that supports WebGL, as those extensions were added to support that.
10:30	justin_smith	oh, OK, I missed that, thanks
11:05	daGrevis	hi again
11:05	daGrevis	Why isn't this working as expected? http://vpaste.net/Yl5Sb The result is wrong.
11:06	ghadishayban	daGrevis: the # symbols need to wrap the 'or' itself instead of the inner clauses
11:07	daGrevis	ghadishayban, woah, thanks. I wonder why it didn't blow up :(
11:08	ghadishayban	or checks for truthiness, and functions are truthy (only nil and false are falsey) so it was being filtered only by the first # fn
11:11	daGrevis	ghadishayban, thanks :)
11:17	gfredericks	should I infer from the fact that clojure/west hasn't been announced yet that its existence is questionable?
11:18	sritchie	cemerick: first step toward the liberator + friend integration I wanted to write about: https://github.com/clojure-liberator/liberator/pull/95
11:21	cemerick	sritchie: yup, got it in a tab now; keeping an eye on it :-)
11:29	mdrogalis	I guess as a Lisp programmer, one could describe him/herself as a data entry professional.
11:32	cjfrisz	mdrogalis: -_-
11:32	dabd	I was comparing ghci with clojure in a simple example: ,(->> (filter odd? (map #(* % %) (iterate inc 1))) (take-while #(< % 10000000000)) (reduce +))
11:33	dabd	takes a long time with clojure and is almost instantaneous with haskel: sum (takeWhile (<10000000000) (filter odd (map (^2) [1..])))
11:33	dabd	l. Anyone knows why?
11:34	mdrogalis	cjfrisz: Yeah, everyone at my office just did that to me after I said it out loud lol
11:38	jcromartie	so you want the sum of the square of all odd numbers under 10000000000
11:39	dabd	nvm it was the gc...
11:39	dabd	pls ignore my question
11:40	dabd	and i suppose clojure version will be faster with a type hint
11:40	jcromartie	yeah I was going to say I get 200ms
11:41	jcromartie	and there are certainly faster ways to write it in Clojure
11:41	mdrogalis	cjfrisz: Two SQL tables walk into a bar.
11:41	mdrogalis	Going for broke there. ;[
11:49	cjfrisz	mdrogalis: You need to make sure there's a stand-up comedy spot in the lightning talks at next year's Conj
11:58	mdrogalis	cjfrisz: Rich, Stu, and Chouser walk into a bar.
11:58	mdrogalis	It's a great way for me to offend everyone in a single pass.
11:58	jcromartie	and only one of them will emerge victorious
11:59	otfrom	sritchie: I like the friend/liberator stuff you are working on. I'm going to be using that PR when it happens
12:00	sritchie	yeah, it's been really good
12:01	gfredericks	A man at a bar orders a rich stew chowder
12:02	mdrogalis	Does the man end up complaining about the meal not being composable?
12:02	technomancy	otfrom: I have to ask... your nick? is there a story?
12:04	technomancy	or at least a pronunciation guide?
12:04	gfredericks	obviously hir name is Obvious Tfrom?
12:04	otfrom	technomancy: to goes <- way and from goes -> way
12:04	otfrom	is was really clever in 1999
12:05	otfrom	s/is/it
12:05	gfredericks	(defn clever? [nick year] ...)
12:05	otfrom	every time I write that function it always returns false
12:05	otfrom	weird
12:07	otfrom	technomancy: and it is only 6 letters and available as a .com
12:08	gfredericks	technomancy.com is in a holding pattern
12:09	technomancy	otfrom: ah, not bad
12:11	gfredericks	technomancy bar jokes: repeatability is important for beer
12:13	nenorbot	is there a min function that accepts a function for value comparison?
12:13	gfredericks	dabd: I'm surprised that didn't crash from numeric overflow
12:14	gfredericks	nenorbot: min-key could work if you can map your items to appropriate numbers
12:14	nenorbot	sounds good! thanks
12:20	hyPiRion	Otherwise just use compare
12:21	hyPiRion	,(reduce #(if (neg? (compare %1 %2)) %1 %2) [1 2 -2 4 -3 -10 10 1023])
12:21	clojurebot	-10
12:22	daGrevis	i love that you can do (source func).
12:26	gfredericks	I have typed (use 'clojure.repl) 5838 times so far
12:26	gfredericks	does anybody know cider well enough to tell me how to bind that to a key? :)
12:28	justin_smith	gfredericks: you could make that an :injection in you :develop profile
12:28	justin_smith	or are you one to switch to project namespaces in the repl
12:29	gfredericks	yes I am
12:29	gfredericks	user is usually well-equipped I think
12:29	gfredericks	alternatively I could try learning to automate the process of making user useful for everything
12:30	justin_smith	I just stay in the user ns and never have that problem, I guess that is just a different strokes for different folks thing
12:30	gfredericks	I don't want to assume my jvm process is always running locally with the :user profile though
12:30	gfredericks	so e.g. :user dependencies wouldn't always be around
12:30	justin_smith	right
12:31	gfredericks	so ideally this would be in elisp I guess
12:31	justin_smith	for me I am in the user ns for the repl, but test namespaces don't have user
12:31	justin_smith	gfredericks: yeah, there is definitely an elisp function that evaluates some string in the current repl. I only have nrepl still though, so can't help you with that part
12:32	justin_smith	but the ielm elisp repl + (apropos "thing") work wonders with elisp
12:32	justin_smith	also C-h f "name"
12:32	justin_smith	once you figure out a few basics, emacs self-documents really well and very deeply
12:33	justin_smith	I like ielm rather than M-: because it reminds me of using a real lisp
12:33	justin_smith	warm fuzzys
12:33	gfredericks	C-h is backspace for me :)
12:34	gfredericks	gotta figure out how to bind help to something else
12:34	gfredericks	#thingsyoushouldhavedonealongtimeago
12:40	justin_smith	gfredericks: M-x describe-function
12:41	dabd	gfredericks: indeed, it should overflow ints
12:42	gfredericks	dabd: and longs I'd think
12:42	gfredericks	,(#(* % %) 10000000000)
12:42	clojurebot	#<ArithmeticException java.lang.ArithmeticException: integer overflow>
12:42	gfredericks	assuming ten billion is what you were dealing with; I might've misread
12:42	justin_smith	,(#(*' % %) 10000000000)
12:42	clojurebot	100000000000000000000N
12:43	gfredericks	,'''*'''
12:43	clojurebot	(quote (quote *'''))
12:44	justin_smith	,*'
12:44	clojurebot	#<core$_STAR__SINGLEQUOTE_ clojure.core$_STAR__SINGLEQUOTE_@1a9aa17>
12:44	gfredericks	,(fn $_STAR__SINGLEQUOTE_ [x] "you're a star, singlequote!")
12:44	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval125$$_STAR__SINGLEQUOTE___126 sandbox$eval125$$_STAR__SINGLEQUOTE___126@1c4b127>
12:45	justin_smith	,(-> #'*' meta :doc)
12:45	clojurebot	"Returns the product of nums. () returns 1. Supports arbitrary precision.\n See also: "
12:45	gfredericks	justin_smith and I alternate between providing useful information about obscure clojure functions and making stupid repl jokes
12:46	justin_smith	as I see
12:46	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
12:46	gfredericks	~greek
12:46	clojurebot	Pardon?
12:46	justin_smith	~foo
12:46	clojurebot	foo is bar
12:46	gfredericks	clojurebot: greek is it to me
12:46	clojurebot	Roger.
12:46	justin_smith	~greek
12:46	clojurebot	greek is it to me
12:47	justin_smith	transitive equality, nice
12:47	justin_smith	clojurebot: it is greek to me
12:47	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
12:47	justin_smith	~it
12:47	clojurebot	it is a lie
12:47	justin_smith	:(
12:47	gfredericks	it is a lot of things
12:47	gfredericks	~it
12:47	clojurebot	it is a lie
12:48	gfredericks	~it
12:48	clojurebot	it is greek to me
12:48	gfredericks	or two things at least
12:48	justin_smith	~it
12:48	clojurebot	it is for clojure.pprint/cl-format :)
12:48	[1]brian	i'm doing clojure koans
12:48	[1]brian	http://pastebin.com/37tD7QD9
12:49	[1]brian	can someone tell me why looping backwards instead of forwards is preferable?
12:49	justin_smith	[1]brian: for one thing, many things stop at 0
12:50	justin_smith	conventions speed comprehension
12:50	AimHere	The given solution probably should use 'zero?' for the zero comparison
12:50	[1]brian	well my version didn't work with bigger numbers
12:50	[1]brian	i'm wondering why looping forward would fail
12:50	AimHere	Neither version will
12:50	daGrevis	is this the correct way to solve the koan? seems unusally too hard http://stackoverflow.com/a/8395229/458610
12:51	justin_smith	[1]brian: replacing * with *' will fix that issue
12:51	AimHere	Use ' and +' instead of and + to promote large integers to bigints when necessary
12:51	daGrevis	[1]brian, hi, im doing koans as well ;)
12:51	[1]brian	daGrevis: :)
12:51	daGrevis	haha, im almost there
12:51	daGrevis	how did u solve last one?
12:51	daGrevis	recursive-reverse
12:51	AimHere	Because I'm a paranoid sort, I'd use <= or >= instead of '=' so the function will at least terminate when fed a non-integer
12:53	[1]brian	*' and +' duly noted
12:53	[1]brian	but the solution doesn't use *' and +' and passes for larger N than mine can, simply because it loops backwards?
12:53	[1]brian	or am i missing something?
12:54	daGrevis	[1]brian, u r missing on answer to me :D
12:54	daGrevis	<daGrevis> how did u solve last one?
12:54	daGrevis	<daGrevis> recursive-reverse
12:54	[1]brian	daGrevis: i conjoined the first of coll to the reverse of the rest of coll, making sure the base case returns a vector
12:54	[1]brian	slow to type
12:54	[1]brian	:(
12:55	daGrevis	thanks! :)
12:55	AimHere	[1]brian, they both ArithmeticException at the same time for me
12:55	daGrevis	[1]brian, like this? http://stackoverflow.com/a/16345932/458610
12:55	[1]brian	daGrevis: yep
12:56	gfredericks	I like clojure's impl of reverse
12:56	gfredericks	(reduce conj () coll)
12:58	gfredericks	,((reduce conj () coll) [:a :b :c 42 :d])
12:58	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: coll in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
12:58	gfredericks	,(#(reduce conj () %) [:a :b :c 42 :d])
12:58	clojurebot	(:d 42 :c :b :a)
13:09	[1]brian	how does destructuring a map with :keys work exactly?
13:10	[1]brian	does it just take the variable name, turn it into a keyword and take the value in the map?
13:11	justin_smith	[1]brian: pretty much, but remember it is not a variable, it is a symbol
13:11	justin_smith	a var is a specific thing, often when we use a symbol it is not pointing at a var
13:11	justin_smith	a symbol even works as an implicit map lookup
13:12	justin_smith	,('a '{a 0 b 1})
13:12	clojurebot	0
13:12	justin_smith	no vars to be seen
13:12	justin_smith	in a let binding a symbol points to the innermost visible binding, rather than a var
13:13	justin_smith	,(let [foo "hello"] foo)
13:13	clojurebot	"hello"
13:13	[1]brian	does the compiler just see :keys and be like this is this 2nd way of destructuring map
13:13	[1]brian	?
13:13	justin_smith	,(let [foo "hello"] #'foo)
13:13	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve var: foo in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
13:13	justin_smith	as you can see it is not a var
13:13	justin_smith	[1]brian: yeah, you can also destructure a map more explicitly
13:13	[1]brian	what is #'foo
13:14	[1]brian	,(let [foo "hello"] 'foo)
13:14	clojurebot	foo
13:14	justin_smith	,(let [{a "hello" b "world"} {"hello" 0 "world" 42}] [a b])
13:14	clojurebot	[0 42]
13:14	justin_smith	,(type #'+)
13:14	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Var
13:15	justin_smith	#' references a var by the symbol that would point at it
13:15	justin_smith	just being pedantic about your usage of the word "variable"
13:15	[1]brian	i know
13:15	[1]brian	i'm trying to understand but I never fully grokked symbols in Scheme
13:16	justin_smith	so more to the point of your original question, :keys is just a shortcut, you can do a more flexible destructuring (as you see in my above destructuring example, I hope)
13:16	[1]brian	,(#'+ 3 5)
13:16	clojurebot	8
13:16	justin_smith	another difference:
13:16	justin_smith	,[(meta +) (meta #'+)]
13:16	clojurebot	[nil {:arglists ([] [x] [x y] [x y & more]), :ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name +, :column 1, :added "1.2", ...}]
13:17	justin_smith	the first is resolved (and thus metadata is no longer there) before meta is called
13:17	raiskailija	justin_smith,
13:17	justin_smith	the quoting ensures that we can see the metadata on the var for the second
13:17	[1]brian	i see
13:17	raiskailija	I am here to inform you of a great cause
13:17	raiskailija	His Shadow must be worshipped.
13:17	[1]brian	when would be a good time to use #'symbol vs symbol
13:18	justin_smith	[1]brian: for example when you have a handler for a server, and want to be able to redefine the function it uses at runtime
13:18	justin_smith	have the handler point to the var
13:18	justin_smith	so redefinitions will be resolved
13:18	justin_smith	a var is a mutable object, so you use a var when you want mutation to happen
13:19	justin_smith	or like above if you want to reference the metadata that is on a var but not in the value it points to
13:20	[1]brian	a <-- resolved var 'a <-- symbol #'a <--- yet unresolved var reference using a symbol
13:20	[1]brian	is that right?
13:20	justin_smith	yes
13:20	justin_smith	exactly
13:21	[1]brian	was there something else?
13:21	justin_smith	a symbol is looked up first as a closure binding (let / function arg), then as a var
13:21	justin_smith	oh wait, it can also be a java class - that goes somewhere in that list
13:22	justin_smith	the nested bindings thing should be very familiar, coming from scheme
13:22	Glenjamin	Hi guys, i'm having a strange problem with ring, ring-codec in particular. The param middleware is unable to find ring.util.codec/assoc-conj
13:23	[1]brian	i don't know what you mean by nested bindings, and i only used Scheme for 1 class
13:23	Glenjamin	i've tried clearing my m2 repository, and checked the clj source inside the ring codec jar - the function is defined in that namespace
13:23	justin_smith	Glenjamin: have you checked that the version of ring you are using has that function? try looking in the jar and seeing what is actually defined in there / the actual version
13:23	Glenjamin	can anyone suggest what i should try next?
13:23	justin_smith	oh, you already tried what I suggested
13:24	justin_smith	[1]brian: I just mean that ##(let [a 0] (let [a 1] a))
13:24	lazybot	⇒ 1
13:24	justin_smith	the innermost value assigned to the symbol is used
13:25	[1]brian	so do vars exist only at the global scope?
13:25	justin_smith	you can create one in a let, but there is usually no reason for it
13:26	[1]brian	how would you do that
13:26	[1]brian	thanks for bearing with me, this symbol stuff is just different from the usual imperative languages
13:27	Glenjamin	here's some repl output: https://www.refheap.com/22250
13:27	justin_smith	[1]brian: np, working on an example of using a var directly - doesn't come up often so I don't have it off the top of my head
13:27	Glenjamin	I can call the function by switching namespace, but not form outside
13:27	Glenjamin	but it's not private
13:27	justin_smith	Glenjamin: (meta #'assoc-conj)
13:28	Glenjamin	oh
13:28	justin_smith	the value does not have the metadata, the var does, as I was just explaing to [1]brian :)
13:28	Glenjamin	that rings a bell
13:28	Glenjamin	just coming back to a project after a few months and trying to upgrade all deps
13:29	Glenjamin	right, that's more like it
13:29	Glenjamin	but it's still not private or anything weird afaict https://www.refheap.com/22250
13:30	Glenjamin	although, the :file key is odd
13:32	justin_smith	maybe it is defined in ring.util.data and ring.util.codec :use s it
13:32	justin_smith	another reason to hate use!
13:32	daGrevis	guys, I have a problem
13:32	daGrevis	I'm doing clojure-koans
13:32	daGrevis	and Im at recursion
13:32	daGrevis	writing function for factorial
13:33	daGrevis	writing a function that calculates factorial for 1 and 2, nothing else
13:33	Glenjamin	codec should be this: https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring-codec/blob/master/src/ring/util/codec.clj
13:33	[1]brian	so, both var and symbols can have values, but while a var is mutable, a symbol value is not, it can only be overshadowed by another scope, an unquoted symbol looks up either a symbol value or var value of the same name, a quoted symbol is a literal that can be used to only resolve var value by prefixing it with # or can be used as a key for maps
13:33	justin_smith	[1]brian: not quite
13:33	[1]brian	darn
13:33	justin_smith	a symbol is just a symbol, but in many contexts is implicitly resolved
13:33	daGrevis	i wrote a function and it passed all other koans that checked factorial where factorial is a really big number.
13:33	justin_smith	[1]brian: sometimes a symbol is resolved to a let binding, sometimes to a var
13:34	daGrevis	http://vpaste.net/FUrly
13:34	daGrevis	where's my stack overflow?
13:34	justin_smith	sometimes as a java class, sometimes it stands as a symbol, unresolved
13:34	[1]brian	,(let [a 5] #'a)
13:34	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve var: a in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
13:34	Glenjamin	daGrevis: you're getting a stack overflow when running this?
13:35	justin_smith	maybe with a negative n you would get a heap overflow
13:35	daGrevis	Glenjamin, no. I expected one
13:35	justin_smith	daGrevis: recur does not use the stack
13:35	Glenjamin	daGrevis: ah, (loop..recur) is magiv
13:35	Glenjamin	magic even
13:35	daGrevis	because you know, if we follow koans, i should have written some shitty function that fails on big nums and then get enlighten
13:35	[1]brian	justin_smith: what is the term for a vs 'a
13:36	[1]brian	-is +are -term +terms
13:36	justin_smith	daGrevis: the new binding replaces the old one, the old one is immediately destroyed
13:36	daGrevis	Glenjamin, justin_smith: how would look that simple function?
13:36	justin_smith	so there is no buildup of context
13:36	Glenjamin	daGrevis: just call your function by name, no loop
13:36	Glenjamin	(defn fact [n] (* n (fact (dec n)))
13:37	[1]brian	,(let [{'a a} {'a 'a}] #a)
13:37	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
13:37	justin_smith	[1]brian: symbol vs. quoted sybol
13:37	justin_smith	[1]brian: a let block creates no vars
13:37	justin_smith	so #' makes no sense in that context
13:37	daGrevis	ahh, okay
13:37	justin_smith	still working on the creating a var in a let block example (it is possible, just weird)
13:38	daGrevis	so I wrote better version at 1st
13:38	[1]brian	,(let [{'a a} {'a 'a}] a)
13:38	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: Unsupported binding form: (quote a)>
13:38	daGrevis	[1]brian, did u solve all of recursion?
13:38	[1]brian	yes
13:38	daGrevis	kewl, me too ;)
13:38	jjttjj	am I the only one who has an impossible time writing unit tests the second I stop copying a screencast and writing my own code? And yet I get the feeling that extensive tests would have saved more than one of the little side projects I eventually abandoned
13:39	justin_smith	[1]brian: ##'a
13:39	lazybot	⇒ a
13:39	justin_smith	err...
13:39	justin_smith	##''a
13:39	lazybot	⇒ (quote a)
13:39	justin_smith	that is what 'a expands to
13:39	justin_smith	you can't use that as the lhs of a binding
13:39	justin_smith	,(type ''a)
13:39	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList
13:39	[1]brian	oh right
13:40	justin_smith	it is a list of two elements
13:40	Glenjamin	jjttjj: what are you using, and what are you used to?
13:40	[1]brian	,(let [{a 'a} {'a 'a}] a)
13:40	clojurebot	a
13:40	Glenjamin	what is #' shorthand for?
13:40	justin_smith	var
13:41	[1]brian	,(let [{a 'a} {'a 'a}] a)
13:41	clojurebot	a
13:41	[1]brian	why is that a vs 'a
13:41	justin_smith	levels of quotation
13:41	Glenjamin	aha, thanks
13:41	[1]brian	,(let [{a 'a} {'a 'a}] (type a))
13:41	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Symbol
13:41	[1]brian	,(type 'a)
13:41	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Symbol
13:42	[1]brian	,'a
13:42	clojurebot	a
13:42	[1]brian	,''a
13:42	clojurebot	(quote a)
13:42	jjttjj	Glenjamin: as a testing framework or language? I'm actually more experienced with clojure than any other language and am very comfortable with it, I'm just more of a hobbiest type programmer and never properly learned testing. I've played arround with clojure.test and expectations and like the latter a little better, but really have almost no experience testing in general
13:42	justin_smith	Glenjamin: ##(macroexpand-1 '#'+)
13:42	lazybot	⇒ (var +)
13:42	[1]brian	,(type ''a)
13:42	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList
13:43	Glenjamin	jjttjj: ah, I see
13:43	[1]brian	,(quote a b c)
13:43	clojurebot	a
13:43	[1]brian	,(= ''a 'a)
13:43	clojurebot	false
13:43	Glenjamin	imo the trick with tests is writing them to test expected behaviour, not implementation
13:44	justin_smith	yeah, a functional mindset makes testing much more straightforward
13:44	Glenjamin	you think "i want to do X", so you write a test for X, and then implement something to pass
13:44	justin_smith	if the input values are right, the thing is a function and the output values are right, then there is nothing else left to worry about
13:44	jjttjj	Glenjamin: so you mean basically testing example usage of the functions, etc, as they would tend to appear in your program
13:44	Glenjamin	yes
13:44	[1]brian	justin_smith: i think i almost learned something then everything fell out of reach :(
13:45	Glenjamin	the trick is to use your functions before you write them
13:45	justin_smith	jjttjj: I think an important aspect of this is avoiding side effects (or limiting them to very specific places in your code)
13:45	jjttjj	Ok cool def a good start
13:45	Glenjamin	i often find it tricky to do this when starting an app
13:46	justin_smith	because of course if the "functions" have some kind of state tied to them, testing will be much harder
13:46	jjttjj	yeah that's where I'm at now
13:46	Glenjamin	but once you have a skeleton, try writing a test before implementing any helper function
13:46	justin_smith	but then again state makes everything harder
13:46	Glenjamin	or if you're extracting a helper function, write the tests before you do so
13:47	jjttjj	ok cool
13:47	jjttjj	trying to make a little twilio SMS bot
13:48	jjttjj	so I was just at a loss of where to really start test-wise, (= (process-incoming-messages) ?)
13:48	justin_smith	now I have a question (that comes up in trying to answer [1]brian's question)
13:48	Glenjamin	testing remote http calls can be tricky (but doable), i'd start with testing the helper functions
13:48	justin_smith	can I create a var in a local binding, or vars by definition only attached to namespaces?
13:48	Glenjamin	bah
13:49	Glenjamin	my function not found issue was due to not running lein clean
13:49	Glenjamin	managed to find it via lein classpath
13:49	[1]brian	,'a
13:49	clojurebot	a
13:49	justin_smith	Glenjamin: man, that is my voodoo answer of choice, sorry I did not mention it earlier
13:49	Glenjamin	[1]brian: think of it like this: when clojure sees "a", it unpacks the var. when you put the quote in front, it leaves it alone
13:50	[1]brian	this from the docs helped me greatly "Yields the unevaluated form."
13:50	[1]brian	for (quote form)
13:52	[1]brian	,(do (def a 1) #'a)
13:52	clojurebot	#'sandbox/a
13:52	[1]brian	,(do (def a 1) ##'a)
13:52	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Reader tag must be a symbol>
13:52	lazybot	⇒ a
13:52	justin_smith	[1]brian: ##(with-local-vars [a 0 b 1] (dotimes [_ 10] (var-set a (+ @a @b)) (var-set b (+ @a @b))) (mapv (juxt identity deref) [a b]))
13:52	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! class clojure.lang.Var is bad!
13:52	justin_smith	:(
13:52	justin_smith	,(with-local-vars [a 0 b 1] (dotimes [_ 10] (var-set a (+ @a @b)) (var-set b (+ @a @b))) (mapv (juxt identity deref) [a b]))
13:52	clojurebot	[[#<Var: --unnamed--> 6765] [#<Var: --unnamed--> 10946]]
13:52	[1]brian	## is just a way to run lazybot right?
13:53	justin_smith	so you can use vars locally, as a mutable type
13:53	justin_smith	right
13:53	justin_smith	and , runs clojurebot
13:53	[1]brian	how do i get a value from a var?
13:53	justin_smith	@, which is shorthand for #(deref %)
13:53	[1]brian	,(do (def a 1) @#'a)
13:53	clojurebot	1
13:54	justin_smith	right
13:54	justin_smith	just like my above example, though the above was using local vars, and def creates a global one
13:54	justin_smith	but both have the same mutable semantics
13:55	[1]brian	,(do (def a 1) @(var a))
13:55	clojurebot	1
13:55	justin_smith	,(do (def a 1) (deref (var a)))
13:55	clojurebot	1
13:55	justin_smith	@ is just a reader macro for deref
13:55	justin_smith	just as #' is a reader macro for var
13:55	[1]brian	is (var ___) just a special form such that the ___ doesn't get implictly dereferenced?
13:56	justin_smith	no
13:56	justin_smith	it is a function that asks for a var object
13:56	justin_smith	by that name, using a specific lookup strategy
13:56	[1]brian	why doesn't a dereference to 1 and it become (var 1)
13:57	justin_smith	sorry, it is a macro, not a function
13:57	[1]brian	i see
13:57	justin_smith	OOPS
13:57	justin_smith	not a macro, a special form
13:57	justin_smith	one of the select few
13:58	justin_smith	so funny enough, since it is a special form, var is not a var :)
13:58	justin_smith	whereas normal functions / macros are a var with some metadata attached to the value we use
13:59	[1]brian	i think i got most of it
13:59	[1]brian	,(let [a 1] @'a)
13:59	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Symbol cannot be cast to java.util.concurrent.Future>
13:59	[1]brian	how do you unquote a quoted symbol
14:00	justin_smith	let bindings are not vars
14:00	justin_smith	[1]brian: by evaluating it
14:00	justin_smith	the default action on a symbol is evaluation
14:00	[1]brian	,(let [a 1] (do 'a))
14:00	clojurebot	a
14:00	justin_smith	you can use resolve
14:00	[1]brian	,(let [a 1] (resolve 'a))
14:00	clojurebot	nil
14:01	justin_smith	,((juxt resolve identity) '+)
14:01	clojurebot	[#'clojure.core/+ +]
14:01	justin_smith	resolve is for vars though
14:02	[1]brian	,(let [a 1] (eval 'a))
14:02	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:02	[1]brian	,(do (def a 1) (eval 'a))
14:02	clojurebot	1
14:03	justin_smith	the kinds of resolutions are more limited with let bindings
14:03	justin_smith	also do note that a var is a mutible container type, a let binding is not
14:04	justin_smith	so resolving is a weaker / more limited thing in the let binding case
14:06	[1]brian	ok enough rabbit hole fun
14:06	[1]brian	back to koans
14:06	[1]brian	thanks justin_smith :)
14:07	justin_smith	some folks on #emacs were joking about the clojure emacs in the browser project
14:07	justin_smith	calling it bromacs
14:07	justin_smith	dude, do you even lambda lift?
14:07	justin_smith	lol
14:07	[1]brian	link?
14:08	[1]brian	or is this clojure emacs in the browser project not a real thing? :(
14:08	justin_smith	it is one of many started but not yet usable attempts to re-implement emacs in $foo
14:09	justin_smith	https://github.com/hraberg/deuce
14:09	justin_smith	"Note: Almost NOTHING works yet. 0.1.0 developer preview ETA: when it's done."
14:09	justin_smith	it is so common as to be a running joke (see emacs in common lisp, emacs in haskell, emacs in ocaml, emacs in scheme...)
14:10	TimMc	Not to mention implementing a browser in emacs, of course.
14:10	[1]brian	emacs in emacs lisp
14:11	[1]brian	why can't emacs run emacs yet? this is a travesty
14:11	justin_smith	that one almost works, to be fair :)
14:11	justin_smith	try running emacs without any elisp code - you would not get much, if anything, usable I don't think
14:13	justin_smith	the vast majority of emacs is elisp, just running emacs without elisp code gets you something that is basically unusable
14:19	Glenjamin	i'm getting an NPE from a third-party lib i'm using - is therea ==
14:19	justin_smith	(-> #'== meta :doc)
14:19	justin_smith	,(-> #'== meta :doc)
14:19	clojurebot	"Returns non-nil if nums all have the equivalent\n value (type-independent), otherwise false"
14:19	justin_smith	only for numbers
14:19	Glenjamin	i'm getting an NPE from a third-party lib i'm using - is there a better approach to debug than moving it to a lein checkout and adding some statements into it?
14:20	justin_smith	Glenjamin: you can open it's jar and evaluate redefinitions in a repl
14:20	justin_smith	without needing to check anything out
14:20	Glenjamin	hrm, lets see if i can reproduce in a repl
14:20	justin_smith	this is of course much easier if you are using an editor with repl integration, but it can be done even in a naked repl
14:21	justin_smith	Glenjamin: if you are running a server, start an nrepl server in the same code that runs the server, and connect to that
14:21	justin_smith	it makes debugging so much nicer
14:21	Glenjamin	in the main server process?
14:21	justin_smith	yeah
14:22	justin_smith	then you can connect to that repl
14:22	Glenjamin	do i need to use drawbridge or something like that?
14:22	justin_smith	why would you?
14:22	justin_smith	just use tools.nrepl to start a server
14:22	Glenjamin	ah, right
14:22	Glenjamin	i see
14:22	justin_smith	if the server process is running on localhost at least
14:23	Glenjamin	mm
14:23	justin_smith	and even if the server is on a remote host, an ssh tunnel is easy enough to make
14:24	Glenjamin	ok, so i might as well have it always do this
14:24	justin_smith	Glenjamin: anyway, using clojure.tools.nrepl to open a repl port inside my server, then defining some atoms I can conj some interesting data onto, helps me solve things much faster than I would otherwise
14:24	Glenjamin	sounds like a good plan
14:24	Glenjamin	cheers
14:24	Glenjamin	bbiab
14:25	justin_smith	of course you can use environment config to not open a repl port in production, etc.
14:25	Glenjamin	was about to do that, but if its localhost only, i'm not too bothered
14:28	[1]brian	,(do (def a 3) (dosync (ref-set #'a 4)) a)
14:28	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Ref>
14:28	justin_smith	[1]brian: you have your mutable types mixed up
14:29	[1]brian	what is the difference between a ref and a var
14:29	[1]brian	,(do (def a 3) (dosync (set! #'a 4)) a)
14:29	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid assignment target, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:30	justin_smith	,(do (def a 3) (alter-var-root #'a (constantly 4)) a)
14:30	clojurebot	4
14:30	justin_smith	or
14:30	nDuff	[1]brian: vars aren't even intended to be used as reference types -- they do locking rather than the retry semantics used by atoms and refs.
14:30	justin_smith	,(do (def a 3) (alter-var-root #'a inc) a)
14:30	clojurebot	4
14:33	nDuff	[1]brian: ...anyow, the big distinguishing thing between refs and atoms is that update of multiple refs can be done in a single transaction, whereas other reference types' updates are individually atomic but uncoordinated. (That's a little bit of a simplification, inasmuch as there's some transactional awareness for sends to agents, but not much of one).
14:34	nDuff	[1]brian: ...anyhow, in general, alter-var-root (which is the var equivalent to ref-set) is something you shouldn't be using absent a fairly specific reason.
14:37	deniska	http://pastebin.com/uqCQNNRr hello, is it correct ns syntax?
14:37	justin_smith	nDuff: yeah, absolutely, this is more being done to demonstrate what vars are as opposed to let bindings etc. - I hope that remains clear
14:38	justin_smith	deniska: no
14:38	justin_smith	deniska: I think you want an extra closing ] on the second line
14:38	justin_smith	and an opening [ at the beginning of the third
14:39	deniska	oh, thank you, it works
14:39	deniska	all my previous attempts on adding and removing brackets in different places resulted either in not working silently or not compiling at all
14:44	[1]brian	omg i'm finally to the macros koan
14:46	nDuff	deniska: ...by the way, you might consider using a pastebin with fewer ads. We're fans of refheap.com here (since it's written by one of our own), but gist.github.com is also an improvement on pastebin.com.
14:47	nDuff	deniska: ...pastebin.com is something of an eyesore to anyone not running adblock.
14:47	gfredericks	~paste
14:47	clojurebot	paste is https://refheap.com/
14:47	deniska	heh, as a fan of adblock I was not aware of it, sorry =)
14:48	nDuff	deniska: yup, that's probably my biggest beef with adblock -- allows sites that make customer-unfriendly decisions about advertising to thrive despite those decisions.
15:21	bitemyapp	arrdem: don't overtrain against historical data :)
15:27	jcromartie	the logging output from clj-http is driving me nuts
15:28	dakrone	jcromartie: which logging output? apache's?
15:28	jcromartie	the full Apache HTTPClient wire log is going to my log4j output
15:28	jcromartie	yeah
15:28	dakrone	jcromartie: you should definitely turn off DEBUG/TRACE for org.apache.http :D
15:28	jcromartie	any experience in turning that off? I know it's just because I set my own root logging level to DEBUG
15:28	dakrone	it is pretty insane
15:28	jcromartie	I don't understand log4j config :)
15:28	dakrone	jcromartie: log4j.logger.org.apache.http = INFO
15:29	dakrone	in your log4j.properties
15:29	gfredericks	(inc dakrone) ;; guy just swept in and fixed everything in 30 seconds
15:29	lazybot	⇒ 1
15:29	jcromartie	indeed
15:29	dakrone	:)
15:29	jcromartie	(doall (take 1000 (repeatedly #(inc dakrone)))) :)
15:30	jcromartie	nothing quite like complaining on IRC and getting the library's author within seconds ;)
15:30	dakrone	haha, I get notifications whenever someone mentions "clj-http" or "cheshire" :D
15:31	deniska	http://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/13/1227/h_1388176119_3947209_3b72676298.png does this code look terribly bad? =)
15:31	gfredericks	I wonder if he'll fix arbitrary things as long as you preface it with a clj-http complaint
15:31	gfredericks	clj-http is a clojure library and americans don't research political candidates before they vote
15:31	dakrone	gfredericks: it guarentees I see it anyway ;)
15:32	mercwithamouth	o_O
15:33	dakrone	CHANGELOG for clj-http: clj-http now sends poll data when used for increasing research on voter uptake
15:33	gfredericks	phew
15:34	mocker	Dang, wanted to read up on speclj the site is down.
15:35	bitemyapp	mocker: speclj is a bad idea anyway
15:42	wink	meh, there was supposed to be a table of lisp hackers at 30c3, either I don't find it or they're gone :(
15:43	Leonidas	wink: hi :-)
15:43	wink	hehe \o/
15:43	Leonidas	i remember there was a meeting in berlin, not all that impressiv
15:44	Leonidas	*impressive
15:48	corecode	wink: i'm here :)
15:48	corecode	not at a specific table
15:50	grzm	I have a vector of functions and a value. I want to apply each function to the value, returning the first non-nil result.
15:50	gfredericks	,((apply some-fn [first rest]) [nil nil nil])
15:50	clojurebot	(nil nil)
15:51	grzm	crikey
15:51	gfredericks	maybe a confusing example but I think that does what you want :)
15:51	gfredericks	,((apply some-fn [first rest]) [false nil nil])
15:51	clojurebot	(nil nil)
15:51	gfredericks	as long as you can tolerate falses being skipped too
15:51	grzm	no, I've been banging my fingers against the repl for trying some combination of some-fn, or, map, filter, first that would work
15:51	gfredericks	,((apply some-fn [first rest]) [:truthy nil nil])
15:51	clojurebot	:truthy
15:51	grzm	yup
15:52	grzm	thanks, gfredericks
15:52	gfredericks	np
16:05	mrhanky	(fn [& ds]) <- what does the & mean? optional argument?
16:06	gfredericks	varargs
16:06	gfredericks	can be called with any number of arguments
16:06	gfredericks	ds is bound to a list of the args
16:06	gfredericks	,((fn [& ds] ["my args are" ds]))
16:06	clojurebot	["my args are" nil]
16:06	gfredericks	,((fn [& ds] ["my args are" ds]) 1 2 3)
16:06	clojurebot	["my args are" (1 2 3)]
16:08	justin_smith	works nicely with destructuring
16:08	justin_smith	,((fn [& [a b c & z]] [a b c z]) (range 10))
16:08	clojurebot	[(0 1 2 3 4 ...) nil nil nil]
16:08	gfredericks	apply
16:09	justin_smith	oops
16:10	justin_smith	,(apply (fn [& [a b c & z]] [a b c z]) (range 10))
16:10	clojurebot	[0 1 2 (3 4 5 6 7 ...)]
16:10	justin_smith	much better
16:10	mrhanky	okay, thanks
16:11	grzm	gfredericks: ((apply some-fn [first rest]) [:truthy nil nil]) ends up evaluating the non-nil returning function twice, doesn't it?
16:11	gfredericks	no?
16:11	clojurebot	no is tufflax: there was a question somewhere in there, the answer
16:11	gfredericks	grzm: having a hard time figuring out why you would think that
16:12	grzm	gfredericks: 'cause I'm naive and learning? let me think some more
16:12	gfredericks	naive and learning is fine :)
16:12	gfredericks	just couldn't figure out how to help
16:15	logic_prog	hiredman: I have a complaint. In https://gist.github.com/hiredman/5167534 , on line 17, what is "storage" ?
16:15	[1]brian	,(let [a 1] ~'a)
16:15	clojurebot	#<IllegalStateException java.lang.IllegalStateException: Attempting to call unbound fn: #'clojure.core/unquote>
16:15	amogh_	Any clojure guys around who have worked with pdf generation using iText ?
16:15	mrhanky	logic_prog, maybe the js localStorage?
16:16	justin_smith	[1]brian: ~ is special, and used inside `
16:16	logic_prog	mrhanky: it's not defined though. There is no (let [storage ...]) anywhere
16:16	amogh_	hey anyone with itext experience ?
16:16	logic_prog	mrhanky: more importantly, how do I fix this? I'll figure out what is wrong later.
16:16	logic_prog	amogh_: I have used itext. It's not bad.
16:16	logic_prog	ApachePdfBox is also pretty good.
16:16	amogh_	i am using
16:16	amogh_	clj-pdf
16:17	amogh_	which is a DSL over i text
16:17	amogh_	itext*
16:17	amogh_	I wanted to know.. how do we place some text on the right of an image
16:17	mercwithamouth	i can't seem to get ecstatic to work...or more so lein-bin. I've added lein-bin to my profile and I definitely saw it get pulled however it keeps saying 'bin' isn't a task
16:17	amogh_	everything i give comes one below another
16:18	amogh_	@logic_prog do u have any idea about such layout?
16:18	logic_prog	amogh_ : not off the top of my head
16:18	logic_prog	itext has nice documentation ...
16:19	justin_smith	did you ever think to yourself "in a conversation, why would you deref the person you are talking to?"
16:19	amogh_	lemme check..
16:20	amogh_	I needed something like float:left in css...
16:20	logic_prog	justin_smith: you mean hashtag_irc_is_not_twitter ?
16:21	gfredericks	twitter people sure do mention lots of different IRC channels
16:21	justin_smith	well, reader-macros for popular topics make sense
16:21	gfredericks	most of them aren't worth visiting though
16:21	justin_smith	lol
16:21	logic_prog	#beiber_forever
16:23	logic_prog	this is a dumbass and off topic question, but perhspa someone here knows: (1) Given: I can read pdfs in chrome (i.e. visit blahblah.pdf). (2) Question: Is there a way to for me to read render a svg as a DOM node in Chrome?
16:23	logic_prog	it doesn't have to work in IE/Firefox; pure Chrome is fine.
16:23	justin_smith	read render?
16:23	logic_prog	?
16:23	logic_prog	I want a webpage, where one my of my DOM nodes is showing a pdf
16:24	justin_smith	"is there a way to for me to read render" - I did not parse that
16:24	justin_smith	ahh
16:24	bitemyapp	logic_prog: how are you getting from PDF to svg?
16:24	deniska	I saw examples of manipulating SVG through JS
16:24	deniska	Not sure if it's DOM
16:24	bitemyapp	also yes you can render SVG but that's not the part that confuses me
16:24	justin_smith	you can use the dom to manipulate an svg yeah
16:25	justin_smith	animated svg etc.
16:25	logic_prog	bitemyapp: I don't have a svg yet. I just have a pdf right now.
16:26	logic_prog	Let me rewrite my question. (1) I Know that Chrome can render pdfs (I can view Pdfs inside of Chrome). (2) Question: is there a way in Chrome to render a pdf as a _dom node_ ? so I can have a webpage, with a bunch of CSS Menus, then one part of it which, bam, renders a pdf.
16:27	bitemyapp	logic_prog: this is no longer SVG and the answer is not without a plugin.
16:28	logic_prog	bitemyapp: noted, thanks for the clarification
16:30	logic_prog	wait
16:30	logic_prog	I can render the pdf in an iframe
16:30	logic_prog	and overlay a div over the iframe
16:31	Glenjamin	you can't guarantee the iframe will show it inline
16:32	Glenjamin	but if you use pdf.js you can get the PDF as a canvas element
16:32	Glenjamin	which is what firefox uses internally, but it should also work on a web page
16:32	Glenjamin	http://mozilla.github.io/pdf.js/
16:32	grzm	gfredericks: What had me confused was reading the description of some-fn: http://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/some-fn
16:33	logic_prog	Glenjamin: there's also http://pdfobject.com/
16:33	gfredericks	grzm: some-fn is super weird once you start passing the returned function more than one arg
16:33	grzm	I read it as returning the function that returned the logical true value rather than retiring a function that returns the logical true value of the result of applying them
16:34	grzm	gfredericks: but super useful in this case :)
16:34	gfredericks	ah ha
16:34	gfredericks	grzm: well yeah because you're only passing one arg
16:35	grzm	gfredericks: i'll put a pin in that and work on it another day. thanks for helping me get around my issue
16:35	gfredericks	grzm: no problem
16:37	DerGuteMoritz	wink: look for the chicken scheme banner, we are in the first assembly hall right before the gate towards the large assembly hall
17:00	scottr	Has anyone spent much time playing with Om? I'm having some trouble figuring out how to structure my app to work with it.
17:04	bbloom	scottr: the conventions of how to structure such an app are still evolving. in fact, Om itself is just one stack at that idea dnolen put together
17:04	bbloom	s/stack/stab
17:05	bbloom	scottr: what issues are you running in to?
17:05	scottr	bbloom: I'm aware; he pretty clearly calls it pre-alpha in the readme, but I can't figure out how to get this one aspect working and it's sort of a dealbreaker.
17:05	bbloom	scottr: talk through it, i can probably help
17:05	scottr	bbloom: I can't get at data in the cursor unless in an om/update! call, and those are synchronous.
17:06	scottr	bbloom: this issue (https://github.com/swannodette/om/issues/14) describes getting data out of the cursor, but that seems... hacky and not the way it was envisioned.
17:07	scottr	bbloom: The root issue is that the update I need to perform is conditional on some data existing, but the data needs to be async fetched.
17:07	jtoy	are there any declaritive sql schema libraries that can auto update that actually work?
17:07	bbloom	scottr: hmm. i'd have to study what dnolen did here a bit. i'm not a big fan of the one-tree + metadata path-into-that-tree approach for a variety of reasons, but i was curious to see where he took it
17:08	jtoy	i looked through them and they dont seem to work, I will probably jsut end up using ruby for the schema management :(
17:08	jtoy	i would like to have it all in clojure if possible
17:08	scottr	bbloom: I spent the last hour looking through the cursor implementation to figure it out... and I cannot, for the life of me, understand their point.
17:08	scottr	Not the implementation, that's fairly trivial, but their purpose in the Om library as a whole.
17:09	bbloom	scottr: they were not reified as a data type last i looked, so give me a moment to study
17:09	scottr	bbloom: Happened yesterday, if the commit timestamp is to be trusted ;)
17:10	bbloom	dnolen: you there?
17:12	bbloom	scottr: hm, yeah dnolen seems to be running in to the problems that i was trying to warn him about :-)
17:13	bbloom	in short, having a single state tree is non tenable b/c you then need to have some sort of zipper that operates on that tree
17:13	bbloom	which is the cursor thing
17:13	bbloom	then those cursor things become both "modified" trees but also are values from the past
17:14	bbloom	if the cursor itself offers the ability to "dereference" it, then you have to bake in a pointer to the current root, or an indirection through a mutable root
17:14	scottr	bbloom: I... followed none of that. Why do you need a pointer to root?
17:15	bbloom	scottr: you'll see that MapCursor and VectorCursor both have value/state/path triples
17:15	bbloom	the value is the map or vector, the state is the root of the tree, and the path is the location of the current map or vector in the root tree
17:16	scottr	bbloom: AH. I wasn't really sure how value and state differed, but I needed so much state shared between my components that I just ended up passing the whole tree around...
17:16	bbloom	in effect, a cursor is a zipper. there are two types of zippers: 1) this kind, where you record the traversal path and 2) the huet kind where you invert pointers to be relative to the "current" spot
17:17	scottr	bbloom: Got it, I think. So (= value (get-in state path)), essentially, meaning `state` is always root?
17:17	bbloom	yeah, that's what it looks like
17:17	bbloom	the problem with the zipper approach is that you have multiple "components" and each component wants to think about the world concurrently. when you have concurrent zippers, you need to worry about isolation
17:18	scottr	bbloom: Because of updates?
17:18	bbloom	scottr: yup
17:19	bbloom	oleg talks about multiple zippers & isolation modes here: http://okmij.org/ftp/continuations/zipper.html#zipper-fs
17:20	bbloom	what dnolen has coded can be called a "Kiselyov Zipper" that is representing a zipper as a suspended walk: like a stack of call frames
17:20	bbloom	sorry, this rant is kinda more for observers than for you scottr :-P
17:20	scottr	bbloom: No problem. I'm not familiar enough with zippers to really understand it yet.
17:22	bbloom	scottr: in short, a zipper represents a tree viewed from a position other than the root
17:23	scottr	bbloom: Ah. That makes sense.
17:23	scottr	bbloom: I don't think this addresses the original problem though, unless I'm just not seeing it.
17:23	bbloom	scottr: like i said, there are two types: 1) huet zippers = interior node + pointers going out. 2) kiselyov zaippers = root + path
17:24	bbloom	scottr: it's a round about way of saying that i think the problem is a design flaw in om, one that i've been trying to find the words to explain to dnolen :-)
17:26	scottr	bbloom: Possibly. I'm trying to reconcile the very abstract "single tree cursor/zipper" description with the very concrete problem I have.
17:26	bbloom	scottr: anyway, avoid capturing cursors. they are temporary objects that should go away after a "frame" has been updated/rendered
17:27	scottr	bbloom: I don't know if that's necessarily the problem. I'm trying to inspect a cursor to find a specific value, then async fetch data if that data doesn't exist yet. I'd schedule an update to the current frame after the data returns.
17:27	bbloom	scottr: my recommendation: store data externally
17:27	bbloom	store only some token or ID in your tree, store that synchronously
17:28	scottr	bbloom: That's what I ended up doing for the top-level items. It just felt very awkward and I thought maybe I just didn't understand the library well enough.
17:29	bbloom	scottr: really, that's what you need to do & the library doesn't (yet) make that sort of thing easy for you
17:30	scottr	bbloom: Is it really necessary to store ALL of the data externally? A lot of the machinery of React itself presupposes having that data stored on the root component, much as is already done in Om.
17:31	bbloom	scottr: om is trying to make it easy to get to the data local to your "current" component, but generally that data should be small. ie just an id number or a setting or two
17:32	bbloom	scottr: all state MUST be external for react/om to work, but some state should FEEL local in order to be easy to reason about. which is what getState/setState provides in React
17:32	scottr	bbloom: I'm not sure I understand that.
17:32	scottr	bbloom: Shouldn't all of the data necessarily exist on the root component (assuming the whole page is React/Om controlled)?
17:33	bbloom	yeah, that's what i mean by external
17:33	bbloom	ie not within the view structure
17:33	bbloom	the view structure is an inert description of the view
17:33	bbloom	it doesn't have state, it's merely associated with state
17:33	scottr	Right. So if the root component updates its canonical data, and passes the whole thing to each component with the components' needed additional data (e.g. pointers into that tree), that would be sensible, yes?
17:34	bbloom	well what is a "pointer" in to that tree? is it a path?
17:35	bbloom	is it a composite object that is a path plus the tree root itself?
17:35	scottr	Or an ID. Anything to reasonably attempt to fetch data from the source.
17:35	bbloom	yeah, see that's the tricky part of this whole thing: you need a consistent way to obtain and dereference identifiers
17:36	bbloom	om is using "path in the view hierarchy" as a convenient identifier for many use cases
17:36	scottr	I think it's less of a problem for my particular use case, since the data is naturally tree-like anyway.
17:36	scottr	And shallow, and (relatively) unchanging.
17:36	bbloom	tree-like data is always nice to work with :-)
17:37	scottr	So, is that accurate, relative to how you've described "storing all data externally" (by which you meant on the root component)?
17:38	scottr	Components should get the data and some reasonable method to access the relevant data from the source itself?
17:38	scottr	And that was the purpose of cursors in the first place, to give components said "reasonable method to access the data"?
17:38	bbloom	scottr: on or next to the root component
17:39	bbloom	yeah, i don't like the cursor idea
17:39	scottr	"Next to" might make it tricky to coordinate re-rendering when the update itself doesn't cause the root component to see a change.
17:39	scottr	Though I suppose a watch on an atom, like Om does, is reasonable enough for that.
17:39	bbloom	oh sure, "on" the component from the react user perspective, but from the react internals perspective, that state is stored "next to" the root component :-)
17:40	scottr	Ah... totally unfamiliar with the internals yet. I haven't really poked around it much.
17:40	bbloom	the distinction is one of who holds the pointer
17:40	bbloom	the component itself does not contain a pointer to it's state
17:40	bbloom	the component only holds an ID which can be used to look up it's corresponding state
17:40	bbloom	s/it's/its
17:41	scottr	Ah, which is the `data-reactid` attribute on the DOM nodes?
17:41	bbloom	i believe so, yes
17:41	scottr	Interesting. I should go poke around a bit to get a better grasp of it.
17:41	bbloom	react "hydrates" components only when relevant
17:42	bbloom	the components' lifetimes are disjoint from the lifetimes of the objects which provide their behavior
17:42	scottr	That's interesting. It seems like you've looked into it a lot...
17:43	bbloom	I'm the guy who has been shouting at dnolen & a bunch of other folks in this channel to look at React since it came out. hell, i've been shouting about these ideas for much longer than that :-P
17:44	bbloom	however, since react is now available, i'm going to assume i can use it as a backend & am thinking about / working on something more ambitious one layer up :-)
17:44	bitemyapp	bbloom: do you teach people 1:1?
17:44	scottr	Hah. dnolen even mentions you by name in his benchmark post.
17:44	bitemyapp	bbloom: not in IRC, that is.
17:45	bbloom	bitemyapp: occasionally. why?
17:45	scottr	bbloom: Thanks for all your help. I'm not really sure how to reconcile the missing data still, but at least I feel better about maybe just accessing the data in the cursor and "just doing it".
17:46	bitemyapp	bbloom: any particular techniques, tools, you use? do you do it face-to-face or over the internet? what subjects typically?
17:46	bbloom	bitemyapp: pretty ad hoc
17:52	bbloom	bitemyapp: curious why you ask
17:52	devn	boot is starting to get pretty cool, you can now build tasks that rely on tasks, and they compose nicely, in boot.edn: :tasks {:run-development-env {:require [some.dep :as foo], :main [:do [foo/bar "argument"] [(fn [_] (println "hello world"))]]}
17:55	bitemyapp	bbloom: been teaching a lot of people lately, was looking to refine a few things.
17:56	bbloom	bitemyapp: selfishly, i mostly teach for my own edification & clarity, so my teaching methods may be tuned differently than you'd desire :-)
17:56	bitemyapp	bbloom: nah same here.
17:56	bitemyapp	bbloom: did you really expect anything selfless of me? >:)
17:57	bbloom	bitemyapp: when you switched from callen to the bitemyapp handle, it kinda rebooted most of the features my brain's personality classifiers depend on
17:57	bitemyapp	bbloom: working as intended.
17:58	bitemyapp	bbloom: Trying to set a better mold, but I'm not a martyr of my time.
17:58	bitemyapp	when I teach, it's as much for me as the student.
17:58	bitemyapp	students ask good questions :D
17:58	bbloom	btw, changing your handle screwing up my brain is similar to the identifier/state correspondence problem in UIs/OM discussed above :-P
17:59	justin_smith	today I finally figured out what the deal was with non-namespace vars, because of a question [1]brian asked
17:59	bbloom	human brains are bad at transferring attributes after rename, which you have capitalized on for the sake of your perception, but can hurt you if that's teh nature of the problem
17:59	justin_smith	and my struggle in answering it
17:59	bitemyapp	bbloom: rumor has it using values instead of references to mutable data helps clear up the identity/state problem :P
17:59	bbloom	greatly aids, but doesn't clear up completely :-P
18:00	bitemyapp	bbloom: especially if the values are really just broadcast proxies of something that is changing.
18:00	bitemyapp	then it's a mechanical advantage, but not as much of a design one.
18:00	bbloom	bitemyapp: computer science. it works bitches.
18:00	bitemyapp	bbloom: speaking of, my christmas haul was good this year.
18:01	bitemyapp	physical copy of the homotopy type theory book and machine learning for hackers. :D
18:01	bitemyapp	I might be getting the BCP Type Theory book as well, not sure yet.
18:01	bitemyapp	bbloom: you get any good books?
18:01	bbloom	bitemyapp: nah, my backlog of books is already crushing
18:02	bitemyapp	I have a decent backlog, but I'm not feeling any crushing sensations.
18:02	bitemyapp	http://liamoc.net/posts/2013-11-13-imperativereasoning.html
18:07	logic_prog	anyone here know how to use pdfjs with clojurescript ?
18:08	bitemyapp	logic_prog: probably have to write your own exports or something.
18:08	bitemyapp	logic_prog: or turn off optimization.
18:09	bitemyapp	logic_prog: when you're integrating arbitrary JS libraries into a CLJS app you have to "Closure-ize" the packages that aren't made for it to begin with.
18:09	bitemyapp	I highly recommend releasing the closure-ized versions for your fellow hackers.
18:09	logic_prog	I thought I just import and call them
18:09	logic_prog	like (. js/console log)
18:09	logic_prog	(. foreign-javascript-library shit)
18:10	bitemyapp	well if you turn off optimizations that might work.
18:10	bitemyapp	but I'm pretty sure the imports/require system is all based on Google Closure
18:10	bitemyapp	so if you don't have an exports file describing what to export from the package, then it probably doesn't know how to find it.
18:10	nDuff	logic_prog: the thing is that the Closure Compiler does name-mangling
18:10	bitemyapp	logic_prog: you should know that I'm working off memory here and I don't even use CLJS that much, and when I do, it's pure lein-cljsbuild and clojars.
18:10	logic_prog	oh right, becuase with optimizations, (. foreign-javascript-library shit) gets minimized to (. a23 a24)
18:11	bitemyapp	which is why I keep telling you to try shutting them off completely.
18:11	logic_prog	so I need to tell cljs "don't rename foreign-javascript-libarry/shit"
18:11	bitemyapp	but if optimizations none doesn't work, you'll need to make an exports file.
18:11	bitemyapp	it's not cljs...it's Google Closure...
18:11	seangrove	logic_prog: Yeah, just include the pdf.js as a foreign-lib or extern.
18:11	bitemyapp	logic_prog: cljs is built on top of the Google Closure compilation toolchain.
18:11	seangrove	The javascript file itself can double as its own extern file
18:12	[1]brian	logic_prog: http://lukevanderhart.com/2011/09/30/using-javascript-and-clojurescript.html
18:12	bitemyapp	seangrove: handy. Didn't know how to do that because I've only used clojars libraries.
18:12	logic_prog	nDuff , bitemyapp , seangrove , [1]brian : noted, this is enough, I will return to hacking
18:12	bitemyapp	logic_prog: are you sure? I'd like to waterboard you some more.
18:12	logic_prog	bitemyapp : stop making my stupid irc client beep
18:13	bitemyapp	sorry :(
18:13	logic_prog	:-)
18:13	bitemyapp	seangrove: how've you been?
18:13	seangrove	bitemyapp: Alive and kickin'
18:14	seangrove	Been rethinking vacation policy a bit
18:14	seangrove	Might make the last ~2 weeks and first few days of the new year mandatory time-off.
18:15	Bronsa	With only 8 lines of clojure we can use datomic's datalog to query valid tools.analyzer ASTs: https://github.com/Bronsa/tools.analyzer.jvm.index/blob/no-database/src/clojure/tools/analyzer/jvm/query.clj#L7-L14
18:16	bitemyapp	seangrove: mandatory time off is a good idea. We've got one of those unlimited vacation policies at my company but it only works because the founders and executives take time off - thereby setting the tone for everybody else.
18:16	bitemyapp	seangrove: been doing a bunch of 1:1 tutoring lately and scoping out the lay of the land for finishing a release of Simonides. Talked to the founder of Heap recently.
18:16	seangrove	bitemyapp: Yeah, that's what I was thinking
18:17	seangrove	And it's valuable just to take time off and recharge for everyone
18:17	seangrove	How'd the talk go?
18:19	bitemyapp	seangrove: oh right the talk about Brambling. Fine I think. It's a good library to use as an excuse for explaining how Datomic works, limitations and all.
18:20	bitemyapp	I finished the night with my talk, spent most of it explaining why you even need Brambling because of how Datomic works.
18:20	seangrove	bitemyapp: Yeah, seems like a good way of approaching the subject
18:20	bitemyapp	seangrove: Heap founder seemed really nice btw. He represents his YC batch very well.
18:21	seangrove	Ah, great. Most of them are pretty helpful (if not nice), one of the things I like a lot
18:21	seangrove	bitemyapp: And is Simonides making progress?
18:22	bitemyapp	seangrove: definitely nowhere near shippable but I'm going to get traction soon. I expect to have something working by the time I return to work.
18:22	bitemyapp	seangrove: Matin was impressed we slapped Simonides together in a weekend :)
18:23	bitemyapp	I have books that should provide nice experiment ideas for Simonides and Keensweep.
18:23	bitemyapp	seangrove: where's a good place to get sencha in the city?
18:23	bitemyapp	I have an excellent supply of chinese teas but my sencha is wanting.
18:24	edw	,(+ 41 1)
18:24	clojurebot	42
18:24	edw	bitemyapp: What city?
18:24	seangrove	I don't know, I always pick up mine annually when I visit Japan
18:24	bitemyapp	edw: San Francisco.
18:24	bitemyapp	seangrove: that is bloody cheating, hahahaha.
18:24	seangrove	bitemyapp: Sacha is going back on Sunday, I can ask him to send some from Osaka/Kyoto
18:24	edw	Ah. There is Japantown...
18:25	bitemyapp	edw: I know where to get a futon in JT, but not tea. I guess I could just close my eyes and see where I land on the dart board.
18:25	bitemyapp	I was hoping for a rec ;)
18:26	edw	bitemyapp: Meh. Opinions are like assholes. Spin the wheel!
18:26	justin_smith	,(+ () () (* (+ () () () ()) (+ () () () () ()) (+ () (*))))
18:26	clojurebot	42
18:26	seangrove	bitemyapp: Happy to have some sent here for you, probably take a week or so
18:26	seangrove	bitemyapp: In fact, consider it done
18:26	edw	justin_smith: Well played.
18:27	arrdem	justin_smith: ssssh we were trying to get hyPiRion to stop writing in that stuff.
18:28	gfredericks	,(* (+ () ()) (+ () () ()) (+ () () () () () () ())) ;; is my favorite
18:28	clojurebot	42
18:28	bitemyapp	seangrove: oh man, thank you! You'll have to give me Sacha's email so I can thank them as well. Also I'd like to get you dinner sometime, I'm on the wrong side of the balance sheet at the moment :)
18:32	justin_smith	,(+ (#(* % % %) (+ () () ())) (#(+ % % % % %) (+ () () ())))
18:32	clojurebot	42
18:33	bitemyapp	justin_smith: write a genetic algorithm for generating Swearjure that optimizes for brevity.
18:33	hyPiRion	,(#(* % (+ % ()) (+ % % % ())) (+ () ()))
18:33	clojurebot	42
18:33	justin_smith	heh
18:33	bitemyapp	justin_smith: or just clone hyPiRion. That too.
18:34	hyPiRion	I'm actually trying to implement that genetic algorithm you're speaking of. Not enough time for it yet though
18:34	hyPiRion2	guys I figured out how to turn parentheses sideways
18:34	hyPiRion2	somehow this lets me generate arbitrary keywords in swearjure
18:34	hyPiRion	oh dang
18:34	hyPiRion	I've ignored nickname changes, so I actually have no idea who that is.
18:34	bitemyapp	hyPiRion: I'll never tell!
18:35	wink	DerGuteMoritz: oh wow thanks :)
18:35	hyPiRion	bitemyapp: A secret kept by fellow IRCers
18:37	arrdem	(inc gfredericks)
18:37	lazybot	⇒ 34
18:38	justin_smith	sometimes a rename doesn't hide much, when people have distinctive favorite topics, conversation habits, or personalities
18:38	bitemyapp	case in point, me.
18:38	justin_smith	exactly
18:39	bitemyapp	always a little worried when something imports the IEEE-754 library.
18:39	arrdem	good. you should be.
18:40	bitemyapp	arrdem: written by bos though. Almost certainly fine.
18:44	danneu	How can I see a list of lein templates?
18:44	arrdem	bitemyapp: it's all fun and games until someone returns a -NaN with some top bits set
18:46	bitemyapp	hastache is spooky good.
19:10	logic_prog	is webworkers basically threads for javascript?
19:11	em-dash	working in cljs, where should I put protocol extensions to native types? eg., in what file, how to ensure the protocol extension is available everywhere? I'm trying to use this: http://keminglabs.com/blog/angular-cljs-weather-app/
19:12	nmws	i have a question about modeling data which can change underneath you. For instance, how would we model a thermostat that reports the current temperature?
19:13	nmws	My current thinking is to have a map where the key is :temperature and the value is a function that returns the latest temperature
19:13	em-dash	right now I have the extend-type call in a util.cljs file that I'm :requiring in via the ns macro wherein I want to have access to the protocol extension
19:15	arrdem	nmws: just use an OOP style getter. So you have some map or other datastructure that defines _which_ thermometer you are interested in. An instance if you will. Then you have (poll :: Thermometer -> Float) or whatever.
19:15	arrdem	nmws: https://github.com/fredericksgary/qubits is hardly a typical library but uses that accessor pattern.
19:18	nmws	arrdem: hmm so then the poll function isn't really a pure function in this case, correct?
19:18	arrdem	nmws: right. it really can't be if it's dependant on an external data source.
19:18	nmws	arrdem: but the value returned by the poll function is immutable, since it is one snapshot of a continuously changing value?
19:18	arrdem	nmws: also correct.
19:19	Glenjamin	oo, there was a lib that might be handy for stuff like that i saw today
19:19	nmws	arrdem hmm thanks.. will chew on this
19:19	Glenjamin	the example from https://github.com/weavejester/reagi almost exactly describes that
19:20	nmws	glenjamin was that link for me?
19:20	Glenjamin	yes
19:21	nmws	glenjamin ok will take a look.
19:22	nmws	(my larger project is to actually develop a clojure api for the lego mindstorms ev3 robot)
19:22	arrdem	nice!
19:23	arrdem	herm... so I've built an assembler assembler... now how to test it without including a simulator for the target processor...
19:24	bitemyapp	arrdem: want to do it the hardware way?
19:24	bitemyapp	or double validation way?
19:25	bitemyapp	arrdem: you build a second assembler assembler - write a fuzzer-generator for the assembler...then crash whenever the two implementations disagree.
19:25	bitemyapp	arrdem: then you're doing it aerospace style!
19:25	bitemyapp	I'm quite serious :(
19:25	arrdem	I know you are
19:25	arrdem	and it's a reasonable approach
19:25	bitemyapp	arrdem: you could also just add manual "known correct" test-cases.
19:26	arrdem	yeah I think I'm gonna start with checking against some hand-assembled cases.
19:26	Glenjamin	arrdem: are you concerned with correct program result, or correct assembler?
19:27	arrdem	Glenjamin: eventually both.
19:27	bitemyapp	Glenjamin: oh you have a way of auto-validating program output without executing?
19:27	bitemyapp	I'd like to see this >:)
19:27	Glenjamin	presumably for anything non-trivial the latter is harder to distinguish
19:27	Glenjamin	i was going to say a simuator is probably a reasonable approach
19:27	Glenjamin	if you want it to generate a program than runs and produces the output, rather than generating the program you expect it to generate
19:28	Glenjamin	which implies you could have done it by hand
19:28	bitemyapp	arrdem: yeah actually, why is a simulator out of the question?
19:28	bitemyapp	arrdem: also I strongly encourage the use of fuzzers for program validation.
19:28	bitemyapp	they hammer out SO MANY bugs.
19:28	arrdem	$google github arrdem batbridge
19:28	lazybot	[arrdem/batbridge · GitHub] https://github.com/arrdem/batbridge
19:29	arrdem	bitemyapp: a bytecode simulator already exists. I'm just pondering if there's a better way.
19:29	Glenjamin	are your tests for validation, or a feedback mechanism?
19:29	Glenjamin	program validation is less useful for the latter
19:29	Glenjamin	imo, anyway
19:32	arrdem	mmkay. I'll probably do the dual input fuzzing once I've validated the processors against each-other.
19:33	arrdem	thanks for the feedback guys.
19:33	bitemyapp	arrdem: http://i.imgur.com/M56m4yl.gif
19:34	arrdem	bitemyapp: oh god why
19:35	nmws	bitemyapp: some of us aren't that far away from asking these kinds of questions in clojure. :( Spent many years writing Java, and I feel like I'm learning programming all over again..
19:35	bitemyapp	arrdem: if you want more "oh god why" https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fivanych.net%2Fdoc%2FPessimalAlgorithmsAndSimplexityAnalysis.pdf&ei=UBy-UqaVAsXzoATHr4Ag&usg=AFQjCNFvMsu2RyJJeI-ous2xrHdwkifwog&sig2=LCil287uk5mofzgxJYobXw
19:35	bitemyapp	nmws: it's ,(+ 1 2)
19:35	arrdem	bitemyapp: I've got all the oh god why I need right here http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/16226/trolling-homework-questions-sorting
19:35	bitemyapp	,(+ 1 2)
19:35	clojurebot	3
19:36	nmws	bitemyapp: heh not quite that bad, but close.. :)
19:36	metellus	nmws: the question is the least objectionable thing on that page
19:37	nmws	metellus: good point. I've stopped being shy about asking basic questions..
19:38	bitemyapp	nmws: I don't bite...much. Ask questions!
19:38	arrdem	bitemyapp: that paper is glorious.
19:38	bitemyapp	There was a study once where they found, neurologically speaking, the anticipation and fear of pain was more painful than pain itself.
19:38	bitemyapp	nmws: ^^ meditate on that ;)
19:39	nmws	bitemyapp :)
19:39	Glenjamin	i feel like i'm missing something obvious, if i've got an environ map, what's a neat way to either get nil, or cast the field to an int if present?
19:40	Glenjamin	oh wow, (int) does not do what i expected anyway
19:40	Glenjamin	i guess i need Integer/valueOf
19:40	Glenjamin	and a wrapper
19:40	bitemyapp	Glenjamin: I write value-type wrappers for my environ stuff.
19:41	arrdem	Glenjamin: yeah #(when %1 (Integer/valueOf %1))
19:41	bitemyapp	benv, ienv, kenv, etc.
19:41	Glenjamin	i've got it all wrapped up in a config namespace
19:41	bitemyapp	zats what I do.
19:42	hyPiRion	maan
19:42	hyPiRion	,(map #(some-> % Integer/valueOf) ["1" nil "3"])
19:42	clojurebot	(1 nil 3)
19:43	Glenjamin	oo, neat
19:44	Glenjamin	gah
19:45	Glenjamin	is there a reason other than no-one has done it yet that (ns) errors are so cryptic?
19:52	technomancy	Glenjamin: two reasons: it's very difficult to get contributions accepted into clojure, and the core team doesn't place a high priority on usability
19:52	Glenjamin	both those reasons make me sad :(
19:53	Glenjamin	by difficult, do you mean the CLA, or the review process?
19:55	Glenjamin	hrm, which bit of the stack causes "lein repl" to write out the .nrepl-port file?
19:55	logic_prog	where can I read about how "lein cljsbuild auto" works with _multiple profiles_ -- for example, I have a dev profile with 'sourcemaps + no optimiations' and I have a release profile with "no source maps; advanced optimizations"; then, I weant "lein cljsbuild auto" to only auto rebuild the dev profile, and not touch the stable profile
19:56	Glenjamin	ah, it's leiningen since 2.3.2 - found it in the changelog
20:01	technomancy	Glenjamin: the CLA is annoying, but it's symptomatic of deeper issues
20:02	bbloom	technomancy: i sense some seriously negative connotation to your statements :-P
20:08	arrdem	bbloom: tiny bit
20:34	BAMbanda	if I fire "lein repl" it brings up a clojure repl, Im just curious, is it detecting the clojure install on my machine?
20:34	BAMbanda	i am not executing it with java
20:40	arrdem	BAMbanda: no. Lein packages the Clojure repl and runtime. You are running Lein's clojure from inside the Lein JVM instance.
20:48	mullr	In clojurescript, is there a preferred way to extend a protocol over both PersistentHashMap and PersistentArrayMap?
20:49	arrdem	does it need to be a protocol? seems like you could probably just have a type-agnostic function...
20:49	mullr	arrdem: well, the function is polymorphic
20:50	mullr	arrdem: it does different things for maps and vectors
20:51	mullr	https://gist.github.com/mullr/8155158
20:51	gdev	arrdem, when do you start working on CinC?
20:52	arrdem	gdev: whenever I get motivated :/
20:52	arrdem	gdev: that and I have another book or to on the JVM to track down and read
20:53	arrdem	gdev: what's up, got a special request or something?
20:53	gdev	arrdem, I have 125 bucks in amazon gift cards if there are any books you're missing =)
20:55	arrdem	gdev: thanks :P all I really need to do is track down a copy of "Inside the Java Virtual Machine, 2nd ed." and then stop letting bitemyapp and dogecoin distract me.
20:57	BAMbanda	im sorry, i asked this question before and I haven't had the time to configure it so I forgot, what is your recommended setup for emacs?
20:57	BAMbanda	slime?
20:57	arrdem	BAMbanda: slime is to be avoided at this point.
20:57	BAMbanda	ok, so cider and nrepl?
20:57	arrdem	BAMbanda: nrepl.el is the "old" emacs repl support, but stable and working
20:57	arrdem	BAMbanda: Cider is new, somewhat unstable nrepl support
20:57	BAMbanda	hmm, what do you personally use?
20:57	BAMbanda	arrdem
20:57	arrdem	cider
20:57	BAMbanda	ok
21:00	mullr	related question: is there a uniform way to map over both the [key value] tuples for each? For the vector, the key would be its index.
21:01	arrdem	(seq {:foo :bar :baz :bung}
21:01	mullr	(to map over both hashes and vectors)
21:01	arrdem	mullr: ... hashes too? you're gonna have to bring for into this.
21:02	mullr	arrdem: I can do (for [[key val] x] ....) when x is a map
21:02	gdev	BAMbanda, I just use the emacs live setup
21:02	mullr	arrdem: but if x is a vector, of course that doesn't work. Conceptually though, a vector is also associative with and index key and a value
21:02	gdev	clone the github repo as your emacs.d folder and you have everything you need to start whacking away
21:03	arrdem	mullr: barely, but I see what you're saying. I don't think of a nice way to achieve that withought implementing a wrapper function to manually handling seq-ing the parameter seqable.
21:03	BAMbanda	gdev, i just pasted in the script from the emacs-live page, it looks so promising, i installed it, but now what?
21:03	BAMbanda	"emacs-live" doesn't seem to be recognized as a command on my terminal
21:04	mullr	hmmmmm
21:04	gdev	BAMbanda, C-c A-j
21:04	arrdem	BAMbanda: just boot emacs
21:04	gdev	BAMbanda, in your project folder type emacs project.clj
21:04	BAMbanda	oh my
21:04	gdev	to get to other files C-f
21:04	BAMbanda	oh my, this is incredible
21:05	arrdem	HE HAS SEEN THE LIGHT. REJOICE BROTHERS.
21:05	BAMbanda	:)
21:05	BAMbanda	i think im in a dream
21:05	gdev	I'll burn the white smoke in the vatican so RMS will know there is a new member in the church of emacs
21:05	nonuby	is there any behaviour difference between (put! ch val) and (go (>! ch val)) when used in a response callback of say a http-kit request
21:05	Raynes	That seems quite unlikely
21:06	Raynes	:p
21:06	BAMbanda	gdev, how do i get the repl up in emacs
21:06	arrdem	BAMbanda: C-c M-j
21:06	gdev	^
21:07	BAMbanda	hmm, its undefined for me
21:07	gdev	gfredericks, are you watching the hawks game?
21:07	gdev	BAMbanda, A-x nrepl-jack-in
21:07	arrdem	BAMbanda: or M-x cider-jack-in
21:07	arrdem	gdev: what is this A- blaspehmy
21:08	gdev	Alt-x =p
21:08	BAMbanda	arrdem, cider-jack-in doesn't work but nrepl-jack-in works
21:08	arrdem	o. kay.
21:08	BAMbanda	damn, this is it
21:08	arrdem	BAMbanda: that's fine. just means that emacs-live still uses nrepl not cider.
21:09	arrdem	BAMbanda: this is a feature. do not touch until you feel brave enough to do so.
21:09	BAMbanda	arrdem, I will prostrate on the floor and thank God now
21:09	BAMbanda	this is nothing short of a gift
21:09	gdev	it's because sam hasn't updated the package
21:09	gdev	but when he does all you have to do is pull the changes from the hub
21:10	BAMbanda	alright
21:12	gdev	BAMbanda, you'll also want to know how to cancel an evaluation in case you accidentally evaluate (range)
21:13	BAMbanda	where do I type (range) into
21:13	BAMbanda	if the repl is busy evaluating
21:13	xeqi	nonuby: I'd use (put! ch val). (go ...) creates a new channel to return and the >! happens asynchronously
21:14	gdev	BAMbanda, no, I meant if you accidentally evaluate something like (range) which is an infinite sequence, you'll want to know how to cancel it
21:14	BAMbanda	gdev, ah how may that be
21:14	gdev	BAMbanda, https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider study the keyboard shortcuts
21:14	arrdem	BAMbanda: C-c C-C
21:14	arrdem	BAMbanda: the usual EJECT EJECT EJECT EJECT keyboard mashing will work :D
21:15	BAMbanda	(range) automatically stops with 99 ...
21:15	BAMbanda	thats good security
21:15	arrdem	wat
21:15	arrdem	could not reproduce.
21:15	BAMbanda	(range) doesn't crash
21:16	BAMbanda	(range prints num from 1 - 99 and ends with ...
21:16	pjstadig	print-length in action
21:16	gdev	BAMbanda, probably because your print length is set
21:16	BAMbanda	gdev, ah, intellisence in emacs, this is superb
21:17	gdev	okay, if you accidentally evaluate (Thread/sleep Integer/MAX_INT)
21:17	mullr	ok, came up with something a bit nicer: https://gist.github.com/mullr/8155158
21:20	gdev	arrdem, is it too early to show him nyan-mode?
21:20	arrdem	gdev: NEVAR.
21:20	arrdem	BAMbanda: M-x package-install RET nyan-mode RET M-x nyan-mode RET
21:21	BAMbanda	"Install package: nyan-mode (No matches)
21:21	BAMbanda	:(
21:21	BAMbanda	arrdem
21:22	arrdem	wat
21:22	arrdem	BAMbanda: do you have elpa/marmalade set up yet?
21:22	technomancy	make sure you've added marmalade to your archive sources, maybe run M-x package-refresh-contents
21:23	BAMbanda	i have elpa, let me take care of marmalde
21:25	gdev	mullr, what is that doing?
21:27	mullr	gdev: Just a depth-first search, giving back the path to each leaf of the tree. Given something like (all-paths {:a {:b [1 2]}}), gives back ((:a :b 0) (:a :b 1))
21:28	BAMbanda	wow, cats and rainbows, thanks guys :)
21:28	BAMbanda	makes development a little more cheerful!
21:28	mullr	gdev: I'm trying to do two way synchronization between an atom in clojurescript and a https://www.firebase.com/ document
21:28	arrdem	BAMbanda: IS IT NOT GLORIOUS.
21:29	BAMbanda	arrdem, the internet age and cats. I would have never though
21:29	BAMbanda	thought*
21:29	arrdem	BAMbanda: yeah. it's silly but sometimes it's all that's needed to make a hard debugging session doable.
21:29	arrdem	I suppose I should build doge-mode...
21:29	BAMbanda	arrdem, yeah i got it. It reminds us to smile. very healthy indeed!
21:31	arrdem	anyone have a cute keyboard shortcut for M-x shell?
21:32	justin_smith	arrdem: now I am imagining doge themed stack traces
21:32	arrdem	justin_smith: first we need sane stack traces. then we can make them silly.
21:32	justin_smith	clojure.java.jdbc/with-connection* wow
21:32	justin_smith	much clojure.core/eval
21:32	gdev	arrdem, meta-!
21:33	arrdem	gdev: do like. very short. so stolen.,
21:33	justin_smith	I think comic sans, primary colors, and a doge face are exactly what clojure stack traces need
21:35	gdev	or even better a text-to-speech service that will say your stack trace in speed reading lawyer voice
21:35	justin_smith	I wonder if the micro-machine guy is available
21:35	gdev	lol that's who I had in mine
21:36	gdev	s/mine/mind
21:39	arrdem	bitemyapp: lol made 14% so far in manual trading. wtf.
21:50	technomancy	arrdem: I use C-x m
21:51	technomancy	arrdem: but I have a secret plan to make an nrepl middleware that can render stack traces as terribly compressed jpegs with hell of artifacts
21:52	arrdem	technomancy: I have heard of this plan. I like that it will allow Clojure/nrepl to compete with drracket :P
21:52	jcromartie	I love it
21:53	gdev	technomancy, weren't you working on rich text format for nrepl output?
21:54	technomancy	rich media types, yeah
21:54	technomancy	necessarily
21:55	justin_smith	to fully embrace gigo, a stack trace could be replaced by a random image from a random /b/ thread
21:56	technomancy	at my last job there was a pool of gifs that would get posted to pull requests that resulted in build failures
21:57	gdev	and the price-is-right fail horn over the office PA system
21:58	arrdem	wasn't bitemyapp doing a gif a commit at some point?
21:59	gdev	I remember posted a picture of my pug on one of his pull requests and calling it a pug request
21:59	gdev	github lets you post images everywhere you can make comments, sometimes all you need is an image
22:00	TEttinger	technomancy, how bad do you want uour compressed jpegs? http://www.mspaintadventures.com/sweetbroandhellajeff/archive/011.jpg
22:01	technomancy	TEttinger: just point me in the direction of the java lib
22:02	TEttinger	haha
22:02	gdev	another good use of being able to post images on github comments, instead of ascii picard face palm, you can post the real thing https://github.com/mikejdoyle/Quiz/commit/e26496db754bd201ed7e2ecead8aeb760d10f195#diff-eb0cd5ad98766cffd6b8a54a7329f3d4
22:02	justin_smith	technomancy: you can do it with java.awt.image.BufferedImage
22:02	justin_smith	+ javax.imageio.plugins.jpeg.JPEGImageWriteParam for setting that compression as intense as it goes
22:03	jared314	if you are going to use a meme, just use sad kitten or something
22:04	gdev	animated gif stack traces
22:04	TEttinger	jMeme for all meme-related image needs
22:04	technomancy	justin_smith: nice
22:05	ryanf	does anyone know of an open-source repo that is an example of building cljs to run on node with tests?
22:06	ryanf	it wasn't hard to get it building, but it's not clear to me how to simultaneously make a second build with tests in it
22:06	ryanf	(or whatever other approach would make sense)
22:07	jared314	http://memegenerator.net/instance/44379725
22:09	justin_smith	http://i.imgur.com/PXn2vPV.jpg
22:09	arrdem	yeah there'd better be an insanity wolf option :D
22:16	logic_prog_	https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/blob/master/examples/helloworld/hello.js#L30-L33 <-- how do I write these lines in cljs?
22:16	bitemyapp	arrdem: lolwut
22:17	arrdem	bitemyapp: ??
22:17	lazybot	arrdem: Definitely not.
22:17	arrdem	lazybot: did I ask for your oppinion?
22:19	bitemyapp	arrdem: 14%
22:20	arrdem	bitemyapp: yep. started playing with 12000 doge, now have 13686. 14% ROI.
22:21	arrdem	bitemyapp: mining's faster tho...
22:46	SirSkidmore	When using lein, I run lein new foo, enter that directory, run lein repl and then run (in-ns 'foo.core) when I try to run the placeholder function (foo 1) and it says it can't resolve the function
22:47	SirSkidmore	any ideas why?
22:47	amalloy	in-ns doesn't load anything
22:47	SirSkidmore	doesn't it switch the namespace?
22:48	justin_smith	sure, but it doesn't load the file
22:48	amalloy	sure, it switches you into a namespace, creating it if it doesn't exist
22:48	amalloy	but it doesn't compile anything or read any files
22:48	SirSkidmore	ohhh
22:48	SirSkidmore	how do I make lein load all of the project files when it starts?
22:48	justin_smith	SirSkidmore: make a namespace that requires all the others, and then require that from the repl
22:48	amalloy	you don't do that; you (require) them
22:49	SirSkidmore	oh
22:49	SirSkidmore	thank you :)
22:55	mullr	logic_prog: (.render page #js {:canvasContext context, :viewport viewport})
22:55	mullr	err, logic_prog_: see above
22:55	logic_prog	mullr: I used js-obj
22:55	logic_prog	where is #js documented ?
22:55	logic_prog	this looks badass if it's a edn
22:56	mullr	I think it's rather new, I found it in an Om sample
22:57	mullr	logic_prog: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/clojurescript/mUVbtdnAvHA/LisdVWyAJKwJ
23:02	yedi	anyone have some resources for getting started with datomic pro starter with clojure?
23:03	yedi	the main site's tutorial is in java, and i've been googling around and haven't found anything to resourceful yet
23:10	bbloom	yedi: i can't imagine the interface is dramatically different as to be confusing for a clojure programmer
23:19	brainproxy	yedi_: have you looked at the "day of datomic" stuff?
23:19	yedi_	yea im lookin at that stuff now, and workin through some of the examples
23:19	yedi_	hopefully thatll be enough for me to get up to speed
23:20	logic_prog_	yedi_: I also learned from day of datomic.
23:20	logic_prog_	mullr: thanks! (re: google link for #js)
23:49	yedi_	i guess in datomic, there's no schema type for edn?
23:50	yedi_	i should just store the edn as a string and parse it everytime