2013-03-28
| 00:07 | kligon | in clojure script externs file, what should be be the location of externs file :externs ["lib/raphael-min.js"] what is the location of lib with respect to project.clj |
| 00:08 | alex_baranosky | any good libraries for actor model in Clojure? Has anyone tried to use Akka from Clojure? |
| 00:12 | tieTYT2 | does anyone know how I can use enlive to find an anchor that contains text that says something? |
| 01:01 | devn | tieTYT2: use laser or if you're *really* lazy, yokogiri |
| 01:02 | Raynes | Ata boy. |
| 01:02 | Raynes | devn be representin' |
| 01:02 | devn | word up |
| 01:02 | devn | https://github.com/devn/yokogiri |
| 01:02 | devn | the cheapest thrill ever |
| 01:03 | devn | https://github.com/devn/yokogiri/blob/master/src/yokogiri/core.clj |
| 01:03 | devn | ^-simple |
| 01:05 | Raynes | devn: If you ever want something to do go ahead an implement a subset of CSS selectors on top of laser's selectors. |
| 01:05 | Raynes | This might be a full time job so prepare as such. |
| 01:07 | devn | Raynes: so much to do already :L) |
| 01:07 | devn | Raynes: i just wanted dead-simple scraping so i stole Yoko Harada's deps for nokogiri for JRuby and used a subset of them to sculpt yokogiri |
| 01:08 | devn | hence the name |
| 01:08 | devn | it's mostly centered around: give me the attributes for an element, give me the text for an element |
| 01:09 | devn | no fancy pants action to it |
| 01:47 | TheBusby | technomancy: lein repl :headless no longer takes port number as an argument at the command line or from project.clj or profile.clj? |
| 02:02 | tieTYT2 | check out this stack trace. I actually do know what code is causing this: https://www.refheap.com/paste/95e5f0d72f409e9f2a179fe4a |
| 02:02 | tieTYT2 | but it doesn't have anything related to clojure in it. Does that prevent me from catching it? |
| 02:03 | tieTYT2 | i guess only one way to find out |
| 02:14 | tyler | is it just me or does cljsbuild ignore lein profile Xmx? |
| 02:48 | ambrosebs | This is weird, it looks like defrecord's macroexpansion qualifies all the implicit methods in clojure.core. e.g., (entrySet [...]) becomes (clojure.core/entrySet [...]). Can someone confirm this? https://gist.github.com/frenchy64/5261196 |
| 02:52 | Raynes | My doctor says I can't use gist. |
| 02:52 | Raynes | Says it's bad for my teeth. |
| 02:54 | Raynes | ambrosebs: Confirmed that it does that in my repl too. |
| 02:54 | ambrosebs | :D |
| 02:57 | ambrosebs | Yet another oddity of the JVM compiler :) |
| 03:03 | ambrosebs | heh, but the AST node doesn't have the clojure.core prefix! Weird :) |
| 03:42 | m00nlight | Hi, everyone, how can I use the latest clojure 1.5 using "lein" to create new project? It seems that the lein still use the version 1.4 |
| 03:48 | nightfly | At least in CL package resolution is done in the reader, maybe similar here |
| 03:55 | m00nlight | It seems that I just change the dependency in project.clj and lunch clojure repl, it will automatically get version 1.5.0, sorry for trouble |
| 04:02 | DaReaper5 | how do i return an output stream in a ring response? |
| 04:03 | DaReaper5 | so far i have been converting the output stream to a byte array then an input stream |
| 04:03 | DaReaper5 | but i think ZipOutputStream does not allow it |
| 04:04 | DaReaper5 | basically i have created a zip file in memory and i now want to return it |
| 04:04 | DaReaper5 | i dont want to have to save it to a file |
| 04:08 | DaReaper5 | hello? |
| 04:08 | clojurebot | BUENOS DING DONG DIDDLY DIOS, fRaUline DaReaper5 |
| 04:14 | mduerksen | DaReaper5: have you tried to just pack it into your ring response? |
| 04:14 | DaReaper5 | i cant return an output stream in a response can i? |
| 04:15 | DaReaper5 | :body (io/input-stream zipIOutStream) |
| 04:15 | DaReaper5 | ? |
| 04:15 | mduerksen | yes, just like that. as far as i know, you can return an inputStream in your body |
| 04:16 | mduerksen | at least thats what i'm guessing, never tried it actually |
| 04:16 | DaReaper5 | Cannot open <#<ZipOutputStream java.util.zip.ZipOutputStream@f00ab7>> as an InputStream. |
| 04:17 | DaReaper5 | is there any ways of directly retreiving ring's output sream? |
| 04:18 | DaReaper5 | that has been the popular java solution |
| 04:18 | mduerksen | look at this: https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/blob/master/ring-servlet/src/ring/util/servlet.clj#L81 |
| 04:18 | DaReaper5 | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5516922/returning-zipoutputstream-to-browser |
| 04:18 | mduerksen | it seems an inputStream can be used, but not an outputstream. ironically, the code calls .getOutputStream ... |
| 04:19 | mduerksen | ah wait, i was wrong |
| 04:19 | DaReaper5 | ya i saw that |
| 04:19 | DaReaper5 | only inputstream can be returned |
| 04:19 | mduerksen | .getOutputStream is on the HttpServletResponse, my bad. |
| 04:20 | DaReaper5 | which i dont have access to |
| 04:20 | mduerksen | yup. doesn't look good |
| 04:21 | DaReaper5 | this is stupid :/ |
| 04:21 | DaReaper5 | i need to return the zip file |
| 04:21 | DaReaper5 | i shouldnt need to save it to file just to open again |
| 04:22 | DaReaper5 | if i could get the byte array of the outstream i would be fine |
| 04:22 | DaReaper5 | but i dont think i can |
| 04:23 | mduerksen | the right way would be to create an inputstream from your outputstream |
| 04:23 | DaReaper5 | how would i do that |
| 04:23 | DaReaper5 | am i just being super tired? :P |
| 04:24 | kalasjohnny2000 | Maybe some food for thought: http://code.google.com/p/io-tools/wiki/ConvertOutputStreamInputStream |
| 04:25 | DaReaper5 | on there right now lol |
| 04:27 | DaReaper5 | i dont think i can use pipes |
| 04:27 | DaReaper5 | if you look at pipes they require the output stream to specify the inputstream |
| 04:28 | DaReaper5 | i have to use zipoutstream |
| 04:29 | mduerksen | you could of course always do something like this: new BlablaInputStream(out.toByteArray()), but i guess you would like to avoid byte copying |
| 04:30 | kalasjohnny2000 | It feels like you could do something like (while (not (empty? in-stream)) (.write out-stream (.nextThing in-stream))) |
| 04:31 | mduerksen | kalasjohnny2000: thats converting an inputstream into an outputstream, DaReaper5 wants the opposite direction |
| 04:35 | DaReaper5 | i cant do out.toByteArray |
| 04:35 | DaReaper5 | not on xipoutputstream |
| 04:36 | mduerksen | hmm |
| 04:36 | DaReaper5 | is the only solution to write to file!? |
| 04:36 | mduerksen | does a ZipInputStream class exist? |
| 04:37 | DaReaper5 | yes |
| 04:37 | DaReaper5 | http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/zip/ZipInputStream.html |
| 04:38 | mduerksen | how can you construct one? only from file? seems so: "...input stream filter for reading files in the ZIP file format..." |
| 04:40 | kalasjohnny2000 | Use http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/io/PipedOutputStream.html but remember to use two threads. |
| 04:41 | kalasjohnny2000 | or a http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/io/PipedInputStream.html if it was that way round. |
| 04:44 | DaReaper5 | kalasjohnny2000 it seems that pipedinputstream need to be paired with a pipeoutputstream |
| 04:45 | mduerksen | DaReaper5: the constructor of ZipOutputStream takes an outputStream. thats the actual output stream. you could use the PipedOutputStream like kalasjohnny2000 is saying |
| 04:48 | Glenjamin_ | it seems like this should be easier. |
| 04:48 | tomoj | DaReaper5: did you not see my refheap? |
| 04:49 | tomoj | https://www.refheap.com/paste/80bad6da903cc2e6542b33d3d |
| 04:49 | tomoj | ..if you're OK with a byte array |
| 04:49 | DaReaper5 | looking now |
| 04:50 | DaReaper5 | you are creating a bytearrayoutstream and then using it to create the zip stream |
| 04:50 | DaReaper5 | which afterwards you use the bytestream to get the byte array? |
| 04:51 | tomoj | yep |
| 04:51 | DaReaper5 | nice |
| 04:51 | DaReaper5 | ill try that |
| 04:52 | DaReaper5 | omg yes |
| 04:52 | DaReaper5 | now i need to fix a few other things |
| 04:52 | tomoj | like mduerksen said, could put a PipedOutputStream there instead of the baos, I guess |
| 04:53 | DaReaper5 | ... like that the fiel within the zip are empty without a type |
| 04:53 | DaReaper5 | file* |
| 04:54 | DaReaper5 | and fixed |
| 04:54 | DaReaper5 | omg this is awesome |
| 04:54 | DaReaper5 | i can now generate 100 individual agent commission reports |
| 04:54 | DaReaper5 | now for probably making it more effient |
| 04:54 | DaReaper5 | since creating 200+ jasper reports is slow |
| 04:54 | DaReaper5 | ... |
| 04:55 | DaReaper5 | i use a loop to create the reports and conj them to an array |
| 04:55 | DaReaper5 | is there a more efficent approach that would use multiple threads? |
| 04:55 | DaReaper5 | i am only ever adding to that array |
| 04:56 | DaReaper5 | [] |
| 04:57 | Glenjamin | some sort of parallel map? |
| 04:57 | DaReaper5 | ya |
| 04:58 | DaReaper5 | pmap? |
| 04:58 | clojurebot | pmap is not what you want |
| 04:58 | DaReaper5 | lol? |
| 04:58 | DaReaper5 | does the bot speak the truth? |
| 04:58 | Glenjamin | i *think* clojure.core.reducers is what you want |
| 04:59 | Glenjamin | but i have no experience with it, only seen a few mentions |
| 05:07 | ejackson | DaReaper5: you have a bunch of options |
| 05:07 | ejackson | pmap could well be the bot you are looking for |
| 05:07 | ejackson | you also have agents, which are quite flexible |
| 05:07 | ejackson | and reducers |
| 05:24 | DaReaper5 | pmap seems ok for now |
| 05:26 | DaReaper5 | 93 reports in 36seconds down from 49seconds |
| 05:27 | DaReaper5 | if i reimplement my java code in clojure would i get a speed increase? |
| 05:27 | DaReaper5 | (i am calling a java class to create part of the report) |
| 05:27 | Ember- | depends completely on the algorithm you would use in clojure |
| 05:27 | Ember- | clojure is *not* faster than java as a language |
| 05:28 | Ember- | it cannot be |
| 05:28 | Ember- | it can be as fast though |
| 05:28 | DaReaper5 | they are basic method calls |
| 05:28 | Ember- | your method calls form an algorithm |
| 05:28 | Ember- | that algorithm and it's complexity is all that really matters |
| 05:28 | DaReaper5 | but wouldn't taking otu a bit of interop with my java class help with speed? |
| 05:28 | DaReaper5 | or does the compiler take care of that |
| 05:29 | DaReaper5 | complexity is always 1 per report |
| 05:29 | Ember- | it's negligble to say the least |
| 05:29 | DaReaper5 | n complexity for all reports |
| 05:29 | Ember- | and imho when calling java methods there is no performance penalty since java methods always have static types thus no reflection needed |
| 05:30 | Ember- | in fact if you're making a LOT of calls then your performance could get a whole lot worse by rewriting everything with clojure |
| 05:30 | Ember- | by providing proper type hints you'd get identical performance with clojure than with java assuming the algorithm would stay the same |
| 05:31 | Ember- | but with clojure you have the functional power behind you |
| 05:31 | Ember- | thus if you rewrite your algorithm with clojure and are able to take advantage of lazy sequences and so on then yes, your performance could improve |
| 05:31 | Ember- | but really, just by changing the language you will not improve performance |
| 05:32 | Ember- | well written clojure will beat the crap out of not so well written assembler in performance |
| 05:32 | Ember- | it's all about algorithms |
| 05:34 | Ember- | DaReaper5: hope I didn't confuse you :) |
| 05:34 | Ember- | but that's the cruel reality - understand algorithms |
| 05:34 | Ember- | it's the only way to make your program run faster |
| 05:35 | clgv | what was the original question? |
| 05:36 | Ember- | 11:29 < DaReaper5> 93 reports in 36seconds down from 49seconds |
| 05:36 | Ember- | 11:29 < DaReaper5> if i reimplement my java code in clojure would i get a speed increase? |
| 05:37 | Ember- | 11:29 < DaReaper5> (i am calling a java class to create part of the report) |
| 05:37 | Ember- | that |
| 05:37 | clgv | ah ok. |
| 05:38 | clgv | I'd say reimplementing java code in clojure for speed if no parallelization is involved wont work |
| 05:38 | Ember- | well it might. But then there would be a lot of room of improvement in the java code too |
| 05:38 | Ember- | for example, looping many times through large collections and so on |
| 05:38 | clgv | ah ok thats true. I assumed a pretty good java implementation in terms of speed ;) |
| 05:39 | Ember- | lazy sequences could give a large performance boost just due to that reason |
| 05:39 | Ember- | but it all depends |
| 05:40 | Ember- | but since the business logic in this case is actually generating reports then I'd guess one could pretty easily beat the java code performance wise |
| 05:40 | Ember- | since generating reports is all about handling data and that's where clojure really shines |
| 05:41 | Ember- | you can achieve the same level of performance in java too but it's a lot harder |
| 05:41 | clgv | depends how the data is represented. |
| 05:41 | Ember- | yes |
| 05:41 | Ember- | it all depends :) |
| 05:41 | Ember- | just thinking |
| 05:41 | clgv | if it's something map like the clojure code could be pretty simple :) |
| 05:41 | clgv | *map-like |
| 05:42 | Ember- | and if there's multiple transformations applied before the actual report is generated then lazy sequences and map operations could really help |
| 05:42 | Ember- | assuming those operations are done at java side one after another |
| 05:42 | clgv | ah I read about pmap in the log. better dont use pmap. there is core.reducers in clojure 1.5.1^^ |
| 05:42 | Ember- | pmap is an easy way out and it's great for certain situations |
| 05:43 | Ember- | but it's really not THAT hard to do equal functionality in java too... |
| 05:43 | Ember- | by using ExecutorService |
| 05:43 | Ember- | reducers are more like fork/join (and they use fork/join under the hood if I'm correct) |
| 05:43 | clgv | hmm no pmap is awful and will disappoint you as soon as it can - the proble is its semi-lazy nature |
| 05:44 | Ember- | well yes. True |
| 05:44 | clgv | the problem arises immediately if not all tasks have about the same time consumption |
| 05:44 | Ember- | I've used it in parallelizing several operations which have side effects |
| 05:44 | Ember- | makes it so easy :) |
| 05:45 | TEttinger | ok uh... so I wrote some really poorly formatted Clojure in jEdit, and I am looking to clean it up as an open source project. It definitely has a use -- it's a simple Swing app that lets a user look up whether a food is OK on the user's restricted diet (such as the weak-kidney diet or diabetic diet) |
| 05:45 | TEttinger | I can't seem to find an editor that handles whole-file auto-indentation |
| 05:46 | TEttinger | and I am not a fan of emacs |
| 05:50 | clgv | TEttinger: sadly afaik there is none. you could try to read the files and pretty print them with clojure.pprint/pprint |
| 05:50 | clgv | but it is not really the same as an IDE would do it |
| 05:50 | TEttinger | pretty sure I could re-insert comments where they exist |
| 05:51 | clgv | TEttinger: another option is to got through the files and use tabulator on each line -- works in emacs and counterclockwise |
| 05:51 | TEttinger | I do have (an old version of) CCW installed |
| 05:51 | clgv | you can update that one^^ |
| 05:52 | TEttinger | does it still have rainbow parens? |
| 05:52 | clgv | yes. why? |
| 05:52 | TEttinger | love em. |
| 05:52 | clgv | it has leiningen support since some time now^^ |
| 05:53 | TEttinger | I actually contributed a tiny bit of code to CCW so it wouldn't use the same color for parens as certain syntactical elements |
| 05:53 | TEttinger | it used fancier colors |
| 09:29 | MikeSeth | anybody here uses Sublime/SublimeREPL for clojure development? I'd like to hear your impressions |
| 09:30 | nDuff | MikeSeth: The consensus, IIRC from last discussion, is that it can be done, but the tools aren't nearly as mature as what you'll find for emacs. |
| 09:31 | nDuff | MikeSeth: IIRC, the paredit mode there does strict enforcement and expand-to-selection and not much else, so you end up having to use cut-and-paste for operations that would be a single motion with a "real" paredit implementation. |
| 09:31 | MikeSeth | nDuff: I absolutely agree, emacs is my primary working environment as well, I am currently hacking on sublime repl plugin which is why I am asking |
| 09:32 | MikeSeth | I didn't even realize sublime *has* paredit ;) |
| 09:32 | nDuff | MikeSeth: https://github.com/masondesu/sublime-paredit |
| 09:33 | MikeSeth | ooh, nice |
| 09:33 | nDuff | ...though, heh, it actually _does_ have a slurp |
| 09:34 | MikeSeth | well, nothing can compete with 30+ of lisper contributions |
| 09:35 | MikeSeth | years, that is |
| 10:03 | jcromartie | hsqldb or h2? |
| 10:04 | jcromartie | should I go with HSQLDB or H2? |
| 10:04 | kalasjohnny2000 | datomic uses h2, h2 is also newer I think |
| 10:10 | devn | I can't kill the association in my mind between the oversized vehicle and H2 the DB |
| 10:11 | devn | http://content.worldcarfans.co/2009/2/medium/hummer-h2-cabriolet_1.jpg |
| 10:11 | devn | Is that H2? |
| 10:13 | kalasjohnny2000 | Reliable, a Choice of Independence, Self Contained, Practical, Strong, Fast... some many things equal. Keep the association in mind. |
| 10:35 | jcromartie | I get a better feeling from H2 |
| 10:35 | jcromartie | also, Hummer drivers are 5 times more likely to get a traffic ticket than the average motorist |
| 10:35 | jcromartie | and that's accounting for bias |
| 10:40 | tbaldridge | kalasjonny2000: Datomic uses H2? Where'd you here that from? |
| 10:46 | kasterma | I have some reducer behavior I don't understand. In the code at https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5263706 as it stands it runs through the list in order, when I increase the length of the list to say 1000 it just hangs never giving any output after the initial trace. |
| 10:46 | gfredericks | tbaldridge: the free version seems to |
| 10:46 | kasterma | The r/map finishes, but the r/fold gets nowhere. |
| 10:46 | kasterma | Any advice. |
| 10:47 | tbaldridge | gfredrericks: ahhh...that's probably for the SQL store backend. |
| 10:47 | gfredericks | right |
| 10:47 | kasterma | Ohhh, the output goes to the repl in the terminal, not to my nrepl. |
| 10:48 | tbaldridge | I thought someone was saying datomic was built on top of H2. Which I don't think is true. It just supports H2 as a backend. |
| 10:48 | gfredericks | ah yes |
| 10:54 | pellis | hello |
| 10:54 | pellis | i'm looking for advice about how to structure my project in a healthy way |
| 10:55 | pellis | i don't want to bring things from my Java or Scala or even Ruby experience, I'd like to do it the clojure way |
| 10:55 | pellis | i.e. when to just use a function, when a structure, and when does a function or a set of functions go in a module |
| 10:56 | pellis | obviously I can think in OO way and model everything that way.. but surely I assume this is less preferred in the 'clojure way' |
| 10:56 | pellis | but given all that, I haven't bumped into a book that tips about actual file structure or module structure |
| 10:57 | S11001001 | pellis: Plenty of existing projects to look at, see how they do it |
| 10:57 | kalasjohnny2000 | pellis, take a look a clojurescriptone, I think that's a good project to start with (it looks very complicated to begin with, but everything has it's reasons) |
| 10:57 | pellis | i see. so looking at existing open source projects was an idea i had. just that when I do that - i don't even know if the author is doing a best practice or just getting away with it |
| 10:58 | kalasjohnny2000 | tbaldrige: exactly, it supports H2 (as opposed to HSQLdb) as backend. |
| 10:58 | clgv | pellis: always start with functions and see if you can solve your problem with functions only in a simple way |
| 10:58 | pellis | so i'd look at clojurescriptone - any other easy to read project out there? that are precepted to use good clojure idioms with regard to project structure? |
| 10:59 | pellis | algernon, thanks |
| 11:00 | clgv | pellis: do you want to write in Clojure or ClojureScript? |
| 11:00 | pellis | Clojure actually |
| 11:01 | leif-p | dakrone: hi. I was wondering why clj-http still uses commons-codec 1.6. Is it for backwards compatibility with Java 1.5? |
| 11:01 | technomancy | clojurescript one is abandoned, right? |
| 11:01 | pellis | if I can talk specific, then I have a service (Web). this service will compute some value based on parameters. then it will persist to database. |
| 11:01 | pellis | so basically i have a "controller", "core logic" and "persistence layer" if i'm looking at it from an OOP view |
| 11:01 | pellis | in clojure, this whole thing can be 3 big functions in the same file |
| 11:02 | pellis | however that looks to be messy |
| 11:02 | nDuff | pellis: Encouraging breaking down the logic into tiny functions is one of Pedestal's strong points. |
| 11:03 | pellis | ah. I had Pedestal open in a tab one day, forgot all about it. |
| 11:03 | rkneufeld | nDuff: with emphasis on *pure* |
| 11:03 | pellis | surely I need to look into it |
| 11:04 | pellis | nDuff, this will actually be an infrastructural api-only service. think about it as a trackingpixel for analytics |
| 11:05 | pellis | i worry that Pedestal is an overkill? |
| 11:05 | nDuff | pellis: If it's not stateful-client, pedestal indeed sounds like overkill then. |
| 11:05 | nDuff | ...though some of the server-side parts could be handy if you needed long-polling or such. |
| 11:06 | nDuff | that's one place where the interceptor model has some rather compelling advantages over traditional ring middleware |
| 11:07 | kalasjohnny2000 | then maybe start with some tutorial on how to build a webapp with compojure, ring and some database lib (if SQL maybe checkout Korma, mongo: congomongo, etc etc) |
| 11:07 | rplaca | technomancy: are you guys having a seattle meetup next thursday? |
| 11:09 | kalasjohnny2000 | pedestal is probably not overkill, btw. The tutorial with ordering and verification and stuff is maybe exactly what you want? Then your web service is done in like 40 lines of code. crazy times. |
| 11:13 | pellis | rkneufeld, oh, you're one of the authors :) |
| 11:13 | rkneufeld | pells: yeah i should have said that. |
| 11:14 | yogthos | pellis: I'm also trying to document good parctices here http://www.luminusweb.net/ |
| 11:14 | yogthos | pellis: much less ambitious than pedestal, but has lots of docs and base project setup in a reasonable way |
| 11:14 | jcromartie | the moment when you are trying to solve a problem and read a helpful stack overflow answer… that was written by yourself… |
| 11:14 | jcromartie | O_o |
| 11:14 | yogthos | lol |
| 11:15 | yogthos | the past you was helping the future you :P |
| 11:16 | rkneufeld | pellis: don't hesitate to ping the pedestal-users google group. I'm in charge of making sure things get attention, so if you had specific questions about how pedestal might fit for your application I would be compelled to help you ;) |
| 11:16 | jcromartie | yogthos: you are sticking with noir? |
| 11:16 | yogthos | jcromartie: I'm maintaining lib-noir with Raynes |
| 11:16 | jcromartie | ah ha :) |
| 11:17 | yogthos | jcromartie: I'm kind of using it as a catch all for utility functions and such |
| 11:17 | jcromartie | yeah |
| 11:17 | dakrone | leif-p: I just hadn't bumped it yet, it should work with common-codec 1.7, thanks for the reminder though, I'll look into bumping it |
| 11:20 | Driadan | hi |
| 11:24 | leif-p | dakrone: Cool. Thanks for all your work on it. |
| 11:33 | alandipert | piranha: https://github.com/priornix/todoFRP/tree/master/todo/javelin |
| 11:33 | piranha | ha! |
| 11:33 | technomancy | rplaca: yeah, definitely. this one should be downtown. |
| 11:33 | piranha | alandipert: thanks, I'll look at that :) |
| 11:34 | technomancy | so is lib-noir basically flatland/useful for ring? =) |
| 11:37 | yogthos | technomancy: sort of :) |
| 11:37 | shriphani | hi guys. How do I map over the k,v pairs in a hash-map? I want to check if a particular value exists in the table. Thanks. |
| 11:38 | shriphani | I tried (map (fn [k v] …)…) but that didn't work. |
| 11:38 | hyPiRion | shriphani: (map (fn [[k v]] ...) ...) |
| 11:38 | yogthos | technomancy: I've been adding stuff like this to it http://yogthos.github.com/lib-noir/noir.io.html |
| 11:39 | hyPiRion | notice the double square brackets: You're destructuring the first element |
| 11:39 | yogthos | technomancy: and my preference is to use existing libs when possible instead of rolling my own :) |
| 11:40 | TimMc | How do you define dynamic programming? |
| 11:40 | nDuff | si14: Are you familiar with the concept of higher-order functions? |
| 11:40 | nDuff | (though... err, yes, need a high-level description of what you want) |
| 11:41 | si14 | TimMc: let's say Viterbi algorithm. |
| 11:41 | si14 | nDuff: of course. |
| 11:41 | nDuff | Ahh; wasn't expecting a question about dynamic programming in the formal sense. |
| 11:42 | si14 | the problem is that we need to somehow reuse X_{i,j} (like in X_{i+1,j}=argmax_by_y(f(X_{i, y})) |
| 11:42 | hyPiRion | I tend to use memoize quite heavily for DP |
| 11:42 | clgv | si14: recursion with memoization can suffice. |
| 11:43 | hyPiRion | When recursion blows the stack, I tend to use doseq or dotimes to iterate over smaller values first |
| 11:43 | hyPiRion | si14: yeah |
| 11:45 | dobladez | piranha |
| 11:45 | piranha | dobladez: ? |
| 11:45 | clgv | another option is to write a macro that expands into nested loop-recurs which fill the table up to the given argument |
| 11:45 | dobladez | (oops sorry) |
| 11:45 | clgv | would be pretty reusable^^ |
| 11:46 | dobladez | piranha: was opening alandipert's link and somehow pasted here by mistake |
| 11:46 | si14 | clgv: just hoped that some seq-lazy-[handwaving] magic will solve this problem for me :) |
| 11:46 | rboyd_ | can always count on #clojure to make me feel like an idiot |
| 11:47 | rboyd_ | come on osmosis, feel free to kick in any time |
| 11:47 | clgv | si14: not for general DP since you usually have recursions with multiple recursive calls e.g. like f(x,y) = min( f(x-1,y), f(x,y-1), f(x-1,y-1)) |
| 11:48 | si14 | clgv: there was some way to explot ML |
| 11:48 | si14 | oops, sorry |
| 11:48 | ystael | rboyd_: my experience is that one doesn't stop feeling like an idiot - the definition of idiocy just changes :) |
| 11:48 | si14 | clgv: there was some way to exploit Haskell's laziness to implement dynamic search of Levenshtein distance in O(n) in "sufficiently good" case. Can't remember the details though. |
| 11:49 | si14 | so that [handwaving] :) |
| 11:50 | clgv | si14: humm but that distance uses a 2d matrix so do you access the values in a prvious row when using a lazyseq? |
| 11:50 | clgv | si4: oh laziness in general could help. |
| 11:51 | clgv | si4: but not lazy sequences |
| 11:51 | si14 | clgv: yeah, I just hoped that I don't understand something and there is a way :) seems like a good chance to try shiny matrix-api lib. |
| 11:53 | hyPiRion | Well, if you want to do repeated levenshtein distances on, say L(x, y1), L(x, y2), ... L(x, y_n), then you can generate a Levensthein NFA for x |
| 11:54 | hyPiRion | Using the NFA (or was it DFA? I don't remember) takes O(n), so it's going to be faster |
| 11:54 | hyPiRion | NonDeterministic Finite Automaton |
| 11:55 | hyPiRion | Yeah, here it is: http://blog.notdot.net/2010/07/Damn-Cool-Algorithms-Levenshtein-Automata |
| 11:55 | hyPiRion | (Well, it's kind of not related to DP, but I think it's cool :p) |
| 11:57 | clgv | si14: you could build something declarative with delays |
| 11:59 | clgv | si14: put the whole vector or vector of vertors in a `promise` but after the cells are constructed. the cells are delays that use the promise to access other cells and deref those cells to get the values. thus, every cell is only calculated once |
| 12:00 | clgv | the only advantage from memoize is that no hashing is used... might be not worth it |
| 12:00 | hyPiRion | Yeah, a vector of vectors is usually slower than a single map with vectors as keys |
| 12:03 | clgv | if you have interger params you could just build a specialized memoize to avoid hashing if it turns out to be a performance problem |
| 12:05 | si14 | hm, maybe that's a way to go. thanks! |
| 12:08 | TimMc | &(.getPort (java.net.URL. "http://google.com:-1/")) |
| 12:08 | lazybot | ⇒ -1 |
| 12:08 | TimMc | &(.getPort (java.net.URL. "http://google.com:-2/")) |
| 12:08 | lazybot | java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid port number :-2 |
| 12:08 | TimMc | Good times in parser-land. |
| 12:10 | hyPiRion | whut |
| 12:10 | TimMc | java.net.URL has some interesting ideas about parsing URLs. |
| 12:11 | Gonzih | &(slurp "/etc/resolv.conf") |
| 12:11 | lazybot | java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.io.FilePermission /etc/resolv.conf read) |
| 12:11 | Gonzih | :) |
| 12:13 | hyPiRion | &(slurp "~/.bashrc") ;? |
| 12:13 | lazybot | java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.io.FilePermission ~/.bashrc read) |
| 12:13 | hyPiRion | I think everything is denied |
| 12:15 | Gonzih | %(slurp "project.clj") |
| 12:15 | Gonzih | &(slurp "project.clj") |
| 12:15 | lazybot | java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.io.FilePermission project.clj read) |
| 12:16 | Gonzih | hm, how is it done? |
| 12:16 | Gonzih | some java io restrictions? or just os permissions? |
| 12:17 | MikeSeth | chrooted jvm? |
| 12:17 | mpenet | it's clojail doing its thing |
| 12:18 | hyPiRion | java access restrictions |
| 12:36 | tyler | does anyone know if cljsbuild obeys Xmx limit in project.clj? it doesn't appear to |
| 12:38 | ppppaul | last night i dreamt about atoms |
| 12:41 | lpetit | clgv: hello |
| 12:41 | clgv | lpetit: hi |
| 12:41 | lpetit | clgv: how are you ? |
| 12:42 | clgv | lpetit: good but a lot of work to do ;) and you? |
| 12:42 | lpetit | a little exhausted today, did not sleep enough |
| 12:42 | lpetit | anyway, I'm experimenting with a little "lein command line" gadget integrated in CCW |
| 12:43 | lpetit | clgv: Currently, it's a little one-line modal prompt, you enter a leiningen command line in there, and it executes it and the result is output in the Console |
| 12:44 | lpetit | The initial content of the input area is |
| 12:44 | lpetit | - if say you issue the command from project fooproj: "fooproj $ lein <task>" and <task> is already selected so you can start typing the real task immediately. And typing Enter automatically sends the command |
| 12:46 | lpetit | - if say there's no particular project the command is launched from, the command line says: "<no project> $ lein <task>" ; <task> is selected also, and you can leave <no project>, the command will be executed outside any project. Or you can replace yourself <no project> with a project name of your choice |
| 12:46 | lpetit | clgv: question, what could I use as a "not so bad" default for invoking this command line utility ? |
| 12:47 | lpetit | clgv: the current binding is (on a Mac) "Cmd + Option + L L" (Ctrl on Win/Lin), note the "double" L |
| 12:47 | clgv | lpetit: it is no standard eclipse view/editor? |
| 12:48 | lpetit | clgv: what ? |
| 12:48 | clgv | clgv: the leiningen command line tool is not implemented as standard Eclipse View/Editor? |
| 12:48 | lpetit | clgv: not that I'm aware of :-) |
| 12:49 | clgv | clgv: if it were you could just put it beneath the REPLView or so. ;) |
| 12:49 | clgv | s/you/the user/ |
| 12:50 | lpetit | clgv: please explain. What do you mean ? You want a View ? What would it look like ? |
| 12:50 | clgv | leptit: is it currently some kind of popup after a shortcut combination was pressed? |
| 12:50 | lpetit | clgv: Is Cmd+Option+L already bound to something in your Eclipse ? |
| 12:51 | lpetit | clgv: yes, I've tried to prototype something leight weight, but maybe I'm heading the wrong way. |
| 12:51 | lpetit | s/leight/light/ |
| 12:51 | clgv | lpetit: that combination is bound in my window manager and logged me out ;) |
| 12:51 | lpetit | clgv: crap :-( |
| 12:52 | clgv | lpetit: luckily only "lock screen" mode^^ |
| 12:52 | lpetit | What about only Alt+L ? |
| 12:53 | clgv | leptit: Ctrl+Alt+L is not bound in my eclipse - thats Cmd+Option+L right? |
| 12:53 | lpetit | Cmd for Mac, Ctrl for Windows / Linux |
| 12:53 | clgv | Alt+L is leiningen |
| 12:54 | clgv | "Alt+L R" and "Alt+L U" |
| 12:54 | lpetit | I wonder if it was something else before I used it :-) |
| 12:54 | lpetit | So "Alt+L L" could invoke Lein command line |
| 12:55 | lpetit | Then later, some common tasks could be pre-bound to e.g. Alt+L R : "lein run", "Alt+L T" : "lein test", "Alt+L D" "lein deploy", etc. |
| 12:55 | lpetit | leaving for ~20 mins, BBL |
| 12:57 | clgv | lpetit: sounds good |
| 12:59 | grebus | alexbaranosky: the clj-schema github page seems not to be there anymore |
| 13:05 | bartonh | when running nrepl in emacs using the paredit-mode, how is a multi line function entered? if i turn off paredit-mode i can use RET. |
| 13:06 | Driadan | have you tried ctrl-j? |
| 13:07 | shriphani | Hi. I have this one line: (def db {:classname "org.sqlite.JDBC" :subprotocol "sqlite" :subame "db/monitor.db"}) and the repl complains about it : ArityException Wrong number of args (0) passed to: PersistentHashMap. What am I doing wrong ? |
| 13:08 | bartonh | ctrl-j works perfect. thanks. |
| 13:08 | Driadan | :) |
| 13:08 | ejackson | shriphani: that evals fine over here |
| 13:08 | shriphani | ejackson: heritrix-monitor.core=> (heritrix-monitor.db-layer/db) |
| 13:08 | shriphani | ArityException Wrong number of args (0) passed to: PersistentHashMap clojure.lang.AFn.throwArity (AFn.java:437) |
| 13:09 | hiredman | :( sqlite |
| 13:09 | shriphani | is that the wrong way to use it ? |
| 13:09 | shriphani | hiredman: should I use something else? |
| 13:09 | hiredman | use a jvm embedded sql |
| 13:09 | nDuff | shriphani: you're trying to call it as a function |
| 13:09 | nDuff | shriphani: so, yes, that's the wrong way to use it. |
| 13:09 | ejackson | shriphani: yes, you can do (db) as thats calling it as a function |
| 13:09 | nDuff | shriphani: if you want to look at its value, just db, not (db) |
| 13:09 | shriphani | oh wow. I am an idiot |
| 13:09 | ejackson | s/can/can't/ |
| 13:09 | technomancy | "from the JVM" is the wrong way to use SQLite though unfortunately |
| 13:10 | ejackson | frying pan -> fire. |
| 13:10 | shriphani | hmm… what are these jvm embedded sqls? Can I run simple sql queries on them outside of clojure (say from Python which colleagues use ?) |
| 13:12 | nDuff | shriphani: Ahh; if you need compatibility with non-JVM-based languages, then you have a compelling reason for SQLite-from-Java. |
| 13:13 | shriphani | nDuff: yea. I want something to look at things quickly and "select * …." at a prompt is still faster than lein repl blah blah. |
| 13:14 | shriphani | also. lein repl is sort of slow-ish for me. Is there any trick to make it run faster? I am loading up incanter (only heavyweight lib I can see) and it takes about 10 seconds to start |
| 13:15 | nDuff | shriphani: See https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/wiki/Faster |
| 13:15 | nDuff | shriphani: ...in particular, perhaps, the link from there to https://github.com/flatland/drip/ |
| 13:16 | shriphani | nDuff: docs for making lein use drip ? |
| 13:17 | ppppaul | i didn't find that drip makes lein faster |
| 13:17 | lpetit | clgv: do you use leiningen ? If so, what are the command line tasks you use most with it ? |
| 13:17 | nDuff | shriphani: *shrug*. Not speaking from personal experience there; I just follow the "throw lots of hardware at it" approach to startup times. |
| 13:18 | tieTYT | http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Expert-to-Expert-Rich-Hickey-and-Brian-Beckman-Inside-Clojure |
| 13:18 | shriphani | heh |
| 13:19 | clgv | lpetit: lein repl, lein clean, "lein do clean, install", lein deps :tree, (lein checkouts uberjar <- my own plugin) |
| 13:19 | clgv | lpetit: ah "lein run" sometimes... |
| 13:20 | lpetit | clgv: so do you think you would use such gadget (since you're a power user and not a newbie anymore), or still the command line ? |
| 13:22 | clgv | lpetit: yeah. it'll be pretty usefull to be able to install altered libs and a second later to update a second CCW project to use it without switching to command line |
| 13:23 | lpetit | clgv: and what do you think about the idea of using a "simple" text input. If everything works well, I intend to then provide intelligent content assist for the task part, the project part, etc. (fuzzy completion for the tasks + task help message, etc.) |
| 13:24 | lpetit | I think this could be more useful than a vertical form with "project", "task", "task arguments" fields |
| 13:25 | clgv | lpetit: I would try it on the beta channel to see how it feels. I am not sure if the simple text input will suffice... ;) |
| 13:26 | lpetit | clgv: since it's a totally independent feature, I intend to release it, as is, on the stable version. |
| 13:26 | clgv | lpetit: yeah content assits would be great ^^ |
| 13:26 | lpetit | (on the beta also) |
| 13:26 | clgv | ah ok. no problem then^^ |
| 13:26 | lpetit | clgv: and also UP / DOW arrows for history, of course |
| 13:27 | tieTYT | anyone here use CCW? How do you "compile all files in my project"? |
| 13:28 | clgv | lpetit: did you see bug #556 |
| 13:28 | tieTYT | or load, rather |
| 13:28 | clgv | lpetit: http://code.google.com/p/counterclockwise/issues/detail?id=556&start=100 |
| 13:30 | lpetit | clgv: hopefully will be solved in next stable ; I now ship with leiningen-standalone and not just leiningen-core |
| 13:30 | lpetit | tieTYT: what for ? |
| 13:33 | Sonderblade | any suggestions on what tools to use to develop with clojurescript efficently? the cljs compiler is to slow to be used from the command line |
| 13:34 | bbloom | Sonderblade: lein-cljsbuild |
| 13:35 | lpetit | tieTYT: there's a global option for automatically loading namespaces when you start a REPL. See Preferences > Clojure > General > Automatic namespaces load on start and save |
| 13:39 | tieTYT | lpetit: sometimes I've made changes in like 3 files |
| 13:39 | tieTYT | and I am ready to try them out. I just want to say, "load teh current state" |
| 13:40 | tieTYT | lpetit: that would require restarting the repl, which is what I already do |
| 13:40 | Sonderblade | bbloom: do you mean lein cljsbuild auto? that doesn't reduce the recompilation time really |
| 13:40 | tieTYT | so maybe I have that option on already (it would have to be a default) |
| 13:40 | tieTYT | also, does CCW have a way to format the text? |
| 13:40 | lpetit | tieTYT: and you didn't "Ctrl+Enter" or "Ctrl+Alt+S" the changes ? |
| 13:40 | tieTYT | lpetit: not at the time |
| 13:40 | bbloom | Sonderblade: it should eliminate recompilation of cljs.core on each edit, which should dramatically reduce iteration time |
| 13:41 | tieTYT | especially because I changed file 1 which would break file 2 until I updated file 2 |
| 13:41 | patchwork | If I decompiled the class files generated from a clojure project back into java files and recompiled it, would it run? |
| 13:41 | tieTYT | that's just the way I (currently) think |
| 13:41 | lpetit | tieTYT: maybe the flag I mentioned above is for you then. Make your changes without saving the files. When ready, "Save all editors" and there you go |
| 13:41 | tieTYT | lpetit: did you mean to say this option loads files on save? You said it loads them on repl start |
| 13:42 | lpetit | tieTYT: does both |
| 13:42 | tieTYT | oh cool, good to know |
| 13:42 | technomancy | patchwork: no, clojure emits bytecode that is impossible to express as java source |
| 13:42 | tieTYT | anotehr thing |
| 13:42 | tieTYT | my-proj.core has the (-main) |
| 13:42 | technomancy | particularly for locals clearing |
| 13:42 | lpetit | tieTYT: less used these days. People prefer more control over what's (and when) sent to the REPL. |
| 13:43 | lpetit | tieTYT: yes ? |
| 13:43 | Sonderblade | bbloom: it does, but it still takes a few seconds to compile a single file which is kind of slow |
| 13:43 | tieTYT | i noticed that if I ctrl+alt+s another file and it changes my NS |
| 13:43 | tieTYT | then I ctrl+alt+n back into core |
| 13:43 | tieTYT | if I try to run (-main) it says it doesn't exist |
| 13:43 | tieTYT | this may be a repl thing or a clojure thing |
| 13:43 | tieTYT | but i always have to restart my repl to be able to run (-main) again |
| 13:43 | lpetit | tieTYT: not sure I'm following you |
| 13:43 | patchwork | technomancy: How does that work? Shouldn't java be able to generate any possible byte code sequence? |
| 13:43 | ToBeReplaced | favorite clojure path manipulation library? |
| 13:43 | tieTYT | ok let me restart |
| 13:43 | technomancy | patchwork: nope |
| 13:43 | patchwork | That is valid running code |
| 13:44 | patchwork | Interesting |
| 13:44 | technomancy | there is no way to express locals-clearing in Java |
| 13:44 | lpetit | tieTYT: yeah, slowly, few neurons there, today ;) |
| 13:44 | patchwork | Crazy, I had no idea |
| 13:44 | technomancy | lots of things are possible in bytecode that aren't expressable in the Java language |
| 13:44 | technomancy | I mean, Java is not at all an expressive language to begin with. |
| 13:44 | tieTYT | lpetit: If I go to file2 and start the repl with ctrl+alt+s |
| 13:44 | patchwork | How did it get written then? |
| 13:44 | tieTYT | then go to core and do ctrl+alt+n |
| 13:44 | patchwork | I thought clojure was written in java? |
| 13:44 | tieTYT | then try to (-main) |
| 13:44 | tieTYT | it says (-main) doesn't exist |
| 13:45 | technomancy | patchwork: the compiler is written in java |
| 13:45 | tieTYT | and the only way I've been able to figure out how to run main is to restart the repl from the core namespace |
| 13:45 | lpetit | does file1 contain a namespace that is a dependencies (required or transitively required) by file2 ? |
| 13:45 | technomancy | thankfully the people working on the JVM are a lot more imaginative than the people working on the language |
| 13:45 | tieTYT | heh, there's no file1 :P |
| 13:45 | patchwork | technomancy: Aha! wow, thanks for the insight |
| 13:45 | tieTYT | just core and file2 |
| 13:45 | patchwork | So it really is better than java |
| 13:45 | lpetit | s/file1/core |
| 13:45 | patchwork | not just a skin |
| 13:45 | tieTYT | oh |
| 13:45 | technomancy | patchwork: faint praise, but yes |
| 13:45 | jcromartie | and this is what I'll say when they ask me why I wrote this backend service in Clojure instead of Rails http://www.techempower.com/blog/2013/03/28/framework-benchmarks/ |
| 13:45 | patchwork | Hahaha |
| 13:46 | jcromartie | because yes I need to serve K's of JSON responses per second |
| 13:46 | tieTYT | does file2 depend on core? no |
| 13:46 | tieTYT | does core depend on file2? yes |
| 13:46 | tieTYT | i couldn't figure out which of those you were asking |
| 13:46 | tieTYT | so i answered both |
| 13:47 | lpetit | tieTYT: so you should Ctrl+Alt+S core, then Ctrl+Alt+N and type (-main) |
| 13:47 | tieTYT | why? |
| 13:47 | clojurebot | Why is the ram gone is <reply>I blame UTF-16. http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/but-why-is-the-ram-gone |
| 13:48 | lpetit | tieTYT: I assume that it's when there is no REPL started yet, right ? |
| 13:48 | tieTYT | the repl is started because the first step is ctrl+alt+s in file2 |
| 13:50 | tieTYT | 1) ctrl+alt+s in file2 2) ctrl+alt+n in core 3) (-main) result = error, could not find that function |
| 13:50 | lpetit | tieTYT: if file2 is to be launched from core (since it is required by core), and since you ultimately intend to run core/-main, then, provided that you didn't yet start a REPL: go to core, Cltr+Alt+S it (it will load core and require file2), Ctrl+Alt+L into core, and (-main) |
| 13:51 | lpetit | tieTYT: that's to be expected. ctrl+alt+n does not load core, just emit a "(in-ns 'core)" |
| 13:51 | tieTYT | so how do I fix this? Ctrl+Alt+S in core before/after I ctrl+alt+n into it? |
| 13:52 | lpetit | tieTYT: did you try what I suggested above ? 1/ open core, Ctrl+Alt+S ; 2/ Ctrl+Alt+N ; 3/ (-main) (in REPL) |
| 13:53 | tieTYT | not yet |
| 13:54 | lpetit | tieTYT: just do it :-) |
| 13:57 | tieTYT | ah ok that works |
| 13:57 | tieTYT | i assumed that starting the repl loaded the whole project |
| 13:57 | tieTYT | thanks for the help |
| 13:57 | lpetit | you're welcome. |
| 13:58 | tieTYT | and is there a way to make it so that if I type ( it completes the ) for me and puts my cursor on the inside? |
| 13:58 | lpetit | Note that with the flag I mentioned, I think it should indeed load the entire project. It may take some time, tho. In that scenario, only doing a Ctrl+Alt+N in core & then (-main) should work |
| 13:58 | tieTYT | cool |
| 13:59 | lpetit | tieTYT: yes, that's called the "strict / paredit" mode. This mode comes bundled with some extra features (e.g. when you type a closing paren) which are, at first, a little bit surprising to newcomers. That's why it's not the default mode. |
| 13:59 | lpetit | tieTYT: You can try it by switching back and forth default / strict mode via Alt + D |
| 14:00 | lpetit | tieTYT: When you feel comfortable in the strict mode, you can definitely open your editors in it via Preferences > Clojure > Editor > … don''t remember the wording … option |
| 14:01 | lpetit | tieTYT: pro-tip. When in the strict/paredit mode, you can "escape" from it, for the duration of the next keystroke, by hitting "Esc" key before the key you want to type |
| 14:01 | lpetit | tieTYT: pro-tip 2: the whole list of keyboard shortcuts is here: https://code.google.com/p/counterclockwise/wiki/EditorKeyBindingsFeatures |
| 14:02 | tieTYT | thank you |
| 14:02 | tieTYT | i'm an intellij guy normally |
| 14:03 | lpetit | tieTYT: not too lost in Eclipse? How come you had to switch? |
| 14:08 | tieTYT | lpetit: I didn't like the La Clojure plugin |
| 14:08 | fractastical | Hey everyone, I'm a total Clojure n00b |
| 14:09 | tieTYT | i'm lost in eclipse. I don't like how it doesn't help you learn. There's tons of shit you can't access from the menu, and tons of shit in the menu it doesn't tell you the shortcuts for |
| 14:09 | fractastical | i've been playing with a few web apps in Clojure |
| 14:09 | hyPiRion | fractastical: hello there |
| 14:09 | fractastical | but i'm constantly getting java.lang.ClassNotFoundExceptions |
| 14:09 | tieTYT | but i'll learn |
| 14:09 | Driadan | glad to hear I'm not the only one starting with Clojure :D |
| 14:09 | fractastical | sometimes I suspect that they are actually errors in something else |
| 14:11 | hyPiRion | fractastical: hmm, care to elaborate a bit further about when you get these exceptions? |
| 14:11 | fractastical | is this a common clojure problem when debugging? |
| 14:11 | fractastical | well, at this moment I've added a controller and a view to my app |
| 14:11 | fractastical | i'm booting it up with foreman |
| 14:11 | TimMc | Those usually mean I've forgotten to import a class. |
| 14:12 | fractastical | and then it tells me: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: fractastical-service.server |
| 14:12 | TimMc | Oh, hypens! |
| 14:12 | fractastical | but it was working just before i added the controller / view |
| 14:12 | fractastical | and there is no explicit call back to the server in any of the new code as far as I'm aware |
| 14:12 | hyPiRion | TimMc: Yeah, I get them when I forget to import a class, refer to a nonexisting class or generally try to jar a swearjure program |
| 14:13 | TimMc | fractastical: I bet you've got a - vs. _ problem. Where namespaces have hyphens, the file and directory names (packages) have underscores. |
| 14:13 | fractastical | yep, i noticed that |
| 14:13 | jcromartie | fractastical: if you haven't require'd the fractastical-service.server namespace then "fractastical-service.server" will be treated as a class lookup |
| 14:13 | fractastical | but like i said, it was working |
| 14:13 | fractastical | hmm |
| 14:13 | TimMc | That would do it as well. |
| 14:13 | hyPiRion | Well, that's strange |
| 14:13 | fractastical | maybe i need to require the namespace on every subclass (i.e. the controller/view) |
| 14:14 | fractastical | ? |
| 14:14 | TimMc | ,clojure.string/split |
| 14:14 | clojurebot | #<string$split clojure.string$split@1ebf394> |
| 14:14 | fractastical | I actually had the same problem the other day when I was attempting to rename my whole webapp |
| 14:14 | fractastical | and I did a project-wide find/replace |
| 14:14 | fractastical | and got exactly the same error |
| 14:14 | hyPiRion | Ah! |
| 14:14 | fractastical | went from working, to constantly not finding the main class |
| 14:14 | hyPiRion | in your project.clj, have you replaced the :main function? |
| 14:14 | fractastical | couldn't figure out why so I abandoned it... |
| 14:15 | fractastical | no, I haven't touched the :main function |
| 14:15 | hyPiRion | namespace* |
| 14:15 | fractastical | it is the same as before |
| 14:15 | hyPiRion | so the symbol is equal to the namespace of the main namespace? |
| 14:16 | fractastical | yes |
| 14:16 | hyPiRion | hmm |
| 14:16 | fractastical | here are the actual values |
| 14:16 | fractastical | project.clj -> :main liberator-service.server |
| 14:17 | tomoj | I've been getting that too on `lein run` lately for at least one project |
| 14:17 | hyPiRion | and the name of the program is liberator-service.server, I suppose |
| 14:17 | technomancy | fractastical: foreman is fairly redundant when using Leiningen |
| 14:17 | fractastical | yeah, i figured that |
| 14:17 | technomancy | you already enumerate your project's entry points in project.clj |
| 14:17 | fractastical | i was using leon run |
| 14:17 | fractastical | lein run |
| 14:17 | technomancy | right |
| 14:17 | fractastical | I assumed that foreman used trampoline if I had it specified in a Procfile |
| 14:17 | tomoj | hmm, but in a new test project, it works fine. |
| 14:18 | fractastical | not quite sure what that does when I am running it locally, probably nothing useful |
| 14:18 | fractastical | but the heroku people seemed to think it was a good idea, so i thought I'd try it |
| 14:18 | fractastical | i think it is more to keep their dynos from being used when not necessary |
| 14:18 | fractastical | that was my take-away anyways |
| 14:18 | fractastical | :p |
| 14:19 | lpetit | tieTYT: yeah, it shows in Eclipse that the main "classic" plugins one expects to see are not sufficiently coordinated and tightly integrated into a coherent "whole", thus the feeling of being lost at first. |
| 14:19 | fractastical | anyways, it is good policy from the heroku standpoint to not have us running dynos for no reason |
| 14:19 | fractastical | so I support it ;) |
| 14:19 | lpetit | tieTYT: it' s a little bit too "open" : lots of possible customizations, but poor defaults |
| 14:20 | hiredman | pjstadig: instead of creating projects it will kill them |
| 14:20 | fractastical | ha |
| 14:20 | fractastical | deploy to trash... |
| 14:21 | fractastical | anyways, the problem with this error: "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: liberator-service.server" is that I have no idea where it is from in the code |
| 14:21 | TimMc | pjstadig: Will it turn off autocorrect, download lein, delete itself, and symlink to lein? |
| 14:21 | TimMc | Because that would be cool. |
| 14:21 | danlarkin | rf -rf / |
| 14:22 | hyPiRion | ls -a |
| 14:22 | lazybot | data home lost+found media opt proc root sbin selinux swap tmp |
| 14:23 | technomancy | "Of course, on the system I administrate, leon has been replaced by a shell script which Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG, reduces the user's disk quota by 100K; and RUNS ED!!!!!!" |
| 14:24 | danlarkin | ahahh |
| 14:24 | S11001001 | ed is the industry best practice text editor |
| 14:25 | hiredman | it also replaces replaces your prompt with "C:\Documents and Settings\home>" |
| 14:25 | technomancy | !!! |
| 14:25 | shriphani | hello. I have a jdbc question. What parameter is missing in this list? I am working off an example on github but it doesn't seem to be right : db-spec {:subame "db/monitor.db", :subprotocol "sqlite", :classname "org.sqlite.JDBC"} is missing a required parameter clojure.java.jdbc.internal/get-connection |
| 14:26 | technomancy | hiredman: necessarily |
| 14:26 | hyPiRion | technomancy: huh, where is that from? Or did you just made that up? |
| 14:26 | technomancy | hyPiRion: https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html |
| 14:27 | thalassios_xelon | helo room:) is there an easy way to limit availible time for evaluation of an expression? example: (limit-time 1000 (.....)) if its takes more than 1000ms cancel the evaluation |
| 14:28 | lynaghk | ping: dnolen |
| 14:28 | dnolen | lynaghk: pong |
| 14:28 | lynaghk | dnolen: you wrote a blog post about using ClojureScript protocols to do neat stuff with strings and regexes |
| 14:28 | hyPiRion | technomancy: I should've known once I saw Ed, really. |
| 14:29 | dnolen | lynaghk: yes a long while ago |
| 14:29 | lynaghk | dnolen: is that still around somewhere or did you take down the old blog for your new github one? I'd like to link to that post |
| 14:29 | dnolen | lynaghk: it's probably on posterous sadly |
| 14:29 | dnolen | lynaghk: which is going away soon so I wouldn't like to ti |
| 14:29 | TimMc | hyPiRion: You should have known once you saw all those exclamation points. |
| 14:29 | lynaghk | dnolen: my google skills are failing me. |
| 14:29 | lynaghk | dnolen: oh, okay. |
| 14:29 | thalassios_xelon | i found the way to limit time .... bye room |
| 14:30 | TimMc | ...thanks for telling us. |
| 14:30 | Driadan | that was fast... |
| 14:30 | TimMc | I would have liked to know the answer, actually. |
| 14:30 | ToBeReplaced | in the clojure.java.jdbc docs, it says with-query results is "Deprecated since JDBC-based SQL Interface version 0.3.0" ... what is the JDBC-based SQL interface? |
| 14:31 | technomancy | ToBeReplaced: I don't think 0.3.0 is out yet |
| 14:31 | hyPiRion | TimMc: I should have known everything really. Would've made IRC life so much easier. |
| 14:31 | ToBeReplaced | yeah latest on maven is 2.4 |
| 14:37 | fractastical | so apparently the ClassNotFound problem was from sort of mismatch between liberator and compojure.route |
| 14:37 | fractastical | which weirdly declared that my main class file could not be found |
| 14:39 | hyPiRion | Oh, ooh. May be that either liberator or compojure grabs *ns* somehow. |
| 14:39 | hyPiRion | though I can't understand how that would crash. |
| 14:39 | technomancy | hoping to do a bugfix release of Leiningen today or tomorrow; anyone got some issues they'd like to make it in? |
| 14:40 | n_b | I'm currently working on enhancing the Clojure bindings to the Boilerpipe library (an HTML content extraction lib) and am trying to determine why the original author used protocols rather than just slurp'ing in the source and passing it to the lib; anyone mind taking a quick look here and possibly enlightening me? https://gist.github.com/nickbarnwell/28992b89bc3e0c925416 |
| 14:40 | ppppaul | technomancy, lein is too pretty and easy to use. fix this please |
| 14:40 | n_b | Or would a question like this be better suited to the mailing list |
| 14:41 | amalloy | ppppaul: that would make it more familiar to some of the mainstream-language programmers... |
| 14:41 | technomancy | what's that? xml-based project.clj replacement, you say? it's so crazy it just might work. |
| 14:42 | tomoj | n_b: I don't think you're missing anything |
| 14:42 | yazirian | technomancy: you should be able to work some m4 in there somewhere |
| 14:42 | mknoszlig | TimMc: here's a pretty ad hoc solution for that timeout thing icusc: https://gist.github.com/mknoszlig/5265744 |
| 14:42 | hyPiRion | ppppaul: Leiningen is a pretty guy, true that. It's hardly we can anything we could do about that though. Except maybe shave his moustache. |
| 14:43 | ppppaul | the only issue i have with lein is start up time. i do lein test a lot and it takes seconds to boot |
| 14:43 | pellis | please don't replace lein with XML |
| 14:43 | ppppaul | using drip too |
| 14:43 | n_b | tomoj: First guy just overcomplicated it, right? The entire file has to be read in to be parsed, so the *only* advantage I could see with the protocol method was being able to optimise, e.g. HTTP fetching, with clj-http or such |
| 14:43 | noncom | Hey what is the library to use if i need to make an HTTPS client? Google only says there are HTTP libraries for Clojure... will neotyk's http.async.client work with HTTPS? |
| 14:44 | n_b | clj-http works with HTTPS for me |
| 14:44 | hyPiRion | noncom: I think clj-http/compojure + Friend can do HTTPs stuff |
| 14:44 | tomoj | I don't see any advantage of having a protocol there at all |
| 14:44 | tomoj | it looks like the author was just confused |
| 14:44 | ppppaul | i tried to use friend and found it hard |
| 14:44 | ppppaul | moved to liberator |
| 14:45 | yazirian | ever since i started using clj-http, my bread started landing butter side up when i drop it. |
| 14:45 | n_b | OK, cool cool. Will just write some tests and then make a pull request then. Thanks tomoj |
| 14:45 | tomoj | I mean, a TextExtractor protocol could maybe make sense |
| 14:45 | noncom | thank you good people! |
| 14:46 | tomoj | but it should be a protocol over text extractors, not over URLs and bodies.. |
| 14:47 | amalloy | tomoj: i think that protocol is just clojure.java.io/reader |
| 14:47 | amalloy | (should be, that is) |
| 14:47 | tomoj | and that only would make sense if you wanted to be able to swap boilerpipe for something else.. |
| 14:47 | tomoj | "extractor" means something different here |
| 14:47 | ppppaul | can i talk about pedestal here? |
| 14:47 | rkneufeld | Sure. |
| 14:47 | technomancy | man... lein ring launching a browser by default |
| 14:47 | ppppaul | i'm really curious about how it will scale |
| 14:47 | technomancy | what is up with that =( |
| 14:47 | rkneufeld | We have #pedestal too |
| 14:47 | tomoj | amalloy: oh, right |
| 14:48 | ppppaul | from my understanding, scaling is easy to do if i can cache my data. the easier i can cache the better i can scale. i don't see this being possible with pedestal |
| 14:49 | hyPiRion | technomancy: lein ring :headless |
| 14:49 | hyPiRion | or something |
| 14:49 | ppppaul | rkneufeld, |
| 14:49 | devinus | what do you guys think are the coolest clojure libraries being developed right now? |
| 14:49 | rkneufeld | ppppaul: one sec |
| 14:50 | technomancy | hyPiRion: like you, I always forget the exact invocation |
| 14:50 | noncom | lein ring server-headless |
| 14:50 | technomancy | it's just a silly default for ring |
| 14:51 | technomancy | maybe a website-specific plugin could assume that, but ring is low-level and shouldn't make assumptions |
| 14:51 | ppppaul | shouda put a ring on it |
| 14:51 | hyPiRion | yeah, I remembered first time I was going to check if I could access a webpage through ring on my server, and lein ring crashed |
| 14:52 | hyPiRion | "oh, I'm missing X11 on my server?" |
| 14:54 | hiredman | technomancy: the `lein ring` plugin also always aots the whole project https://github.com/weavejester/lein-ring/issues/52 |
| 14:54 | hiredman | and needless generates new servlet classes for every project |
| 14:55 | blrm | devinus: its not exactly a library, but overtone is pretty awesome |
| 14:55 | devinus | blrm: that's the music generation one, right? |
| 14:55 | hiredman | pedestal has a single ClojureVarServlet class that you just slot the vars you want in to |
| 14:56 | n_b | core.logic is pretty great, probably decidedly less cool to the prolog fans though ;) |
| 14:56 | blrm | devinus: yeah, if you wanna see what its capableof, sam aaron did a great presentation on it: http://blip.tv/clojure/sam-aaron-programming-music-with-overtone-5970273 |
| 14:56 | hiredman | https://github.com/pedestal/pedestal/blob/master/service/java/io/pedestal/servlet/ClojureVarServlet.java but defined in java, which is also gross |
| 15:00 | technomancy | hiredman: huh; not seeing that here |
| 15:01 | hiredman | technomancy: have you built a war? |
| 15:01 | technomancy | no |
| 15:01 | technomancy | I would never do that =) |
| 15:02 | hyPiRion | make peace, not war. |
| 15:02 | fractastical | overtone was what first got me interested in Clojure |
| 15:02 | fractastical | or at least, was the first thing I used to experiment in Clojure |
| 15:02 | fractastical | unfortunately i could never get it to do the cool things that were in the video |
| 15:02 | technomancy | hiredman: the issue says it comes from running `lein ring server` though |
| 15:03 | fractastical | undocumented features... |
| 15:04 | hiredman | technomancy: try running `lein clean` first |
| 15:04 | hiredman | nope, hmmm |
| 15:04 | blrm | fractastical: did you ever use any of the midi mapping features? I've never messed with that part of it |
| 15:04 | fractastical | not really, i just went through whatever tutorial there was at the time |
| 15:05 | fractastical | don't even remember exactly what i did anymore, was awhile ago |
| 15:05 | fractastical | a few beeps that sounded a bit like music ;) |
| 15:05 | blrm | fractastical: haha :) |
| 15:06 | fractastical | is it possible to have a single page clojure web app? |
| 15:06 | amalloy | fractastical: just play a bunch more beeps at once, layered over each other, and it's real music |
| 15:06 | fractastical | amalloy: yeah, that's what they told me, but it sounded more like a bunch of beeps colliding into each other |
| 15:07 | fractastical | more like the bumper cars of music than a trip to the local philharmonic |
| 15:07 | fractastical | still fun though ;) |
| 15:09 | hiredman | technomancy: it looks like lein doesn't print out the "compiling ..." lines when lein-ring creates an uberwar, even though it definitely aot compiles |
| 15:10 | technomancy | yeah, I'm just using this to throw together a dummy "500 on every request" app; I don't use it for real projects. |
| 15:16 | fractastical | is Midje the preferred way to do testing in a clojure web app? |
| 15:17 | ppppaul | no fractastical |
| 15:17 | fractastical | is there a preferred way? |
| 15:17 | Ember- | clojure test is the preferred way, but midje is great and I like it more |
| 15:17 | Ember- | it all depends on what you like |
| 15:17 | Ember- | try em both, then make your choice |
| 15:18 | ppppaul | i don't see midje being more than a renaming of stuff from test. please enlighten me Ember- |
| 15:19 | technomancy | midje has a number of questionable design decisions |
| 15:19 | technomancy | start with clojure.test and if you don't like it you can look for alternatives |
| 15:20 | fractastical | ok, thx |
| 15:20 | Ember- | ppppaul: for example metaconstants, top-down testing and so on |
| 15:20 | Ember- | there is only one thing that *really* bugs me in midje |
| 15:20 | Ember- | and it's the stacktraces |
| 15:20 | technomancy | the great thing about clojure.test is that you only have to learn 2 macros and you're good to go. (plus one function if you want to get fancy) |
| 15:20 | Ember- | midje f**ks them up in case of an exception |
| 15:20 | technomancy | so it's not a big investment |
| 15:21 | ppppaul | clojure test also integrates into cat nip |
| 15:21 | borkdude | I like clojure.test for its simplicity |
| 15:22 | borkdude | mocking can be done with binding or with-redefs |
| 15:22 | amalloy | simplicity is such a strong word, borkdude. i'd say clojure.test has minimalism :P |
| 15:22 | technomancy | yeah, most people who think they need midje for mocking just don't know about with-redefs |
| 15:24 | borkdude | amalloy ok =) |
| 15:24 | hyPiRion | oh man |
| 15:25 | hyPiRion | with-redefs makes me so angry when I have to write tests or try out code in other languages |
| 15:25 | hyPiRion | It's too useful |
| 15:25 | hiredman | vars are sweet |
| 15:25 | technomancy | I wrote with-redefs for ruby when I was young and foolish |
| 15:26 | technomancy | http://technomancy.us/94 |
| 15:26 | borkdude | technomancy how old are you now? ;) |
| 15:26 | technomancy | wow, the formatting on that broke pretty badly |
| 15:26 | hiredman | every var is a dependency injection point, which it turns out, having those everywhere is super useful |
| 15:26 | technomancy | borkdude: now I'm just foolish. |
| 15:26 | hyPiRion | borkdude: still young, not so foolish anymore though |
| 15:26 | technomancy | heh |
| 15:26 | technomancy | I'm 29 |
| 15:26 | hyPiRion | technomancy: hah, |
| 15:26 | hyPiRion | < 30 |
| 15:26 | hyPiRion | still in your twenties |
| 15:28 | hq1 | hi, coming from Erlang, what would you say is the best resource to start with Clojure? |
| 15:28 | borkdude | hq1 ClojureBook and 4clojure |
| 15:28 | pjstadig | functions that call other functions through vars are not pure |
| 15:28 | hyPiRion | technomancy: Oh, now I just realized where I stole the CSS for my code blocks for my blog :) |
| 15:29 | technomancy | hyPiRion: hah... mine is stolen from htmlize.el |
| 15:29 | hq1 | borkdude: ty |
| 15:29 | hyPiRion | hq1: http://www.clojurebook.com/ is a good one |
| 15:29 | hq1 | thanks |
| 15:30 | hyPiRion | hq1: While you're here, can you tell me about a valuable place to learn OTP properly? :) |
| 15:30 | borkdude | technomancy htmlize.el uses css? it's inlined css I think then? |
| 15:30 | ppppaul | anyone play with simulant? |
| 15:30 | technomancy | borkdude: it is, yeah |
| 15:30 | hq1 | hyPiRion: LYSE - http://learnyousomeerlang.com/ |
| 15:31 | hyPiRion | hq1: ah, good to get that confirmed, thanks! |
| 15:31 | hq1 | hyPiRion: np |
| 15:32 | borkdude | hq1 there are some other great clojure books as well: … wtf, my clojure books question on SO got removed: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2578837/comparing-clojure-books |
| 15:32 | hq1 | haha |
| 15:32 | fractastical | heh, i was searching for that earlier today and got the same removal notice |
| 15:32 | Driadan | what's the name for the <- thing? I can't google it :/ |
| 15:32 | rkneufeld | threading macro? |
| 15:32 | clojurebot | macro are macros |
| 15:32 | amalloy | $google symbolhound |
| 15:32 | lazybot | [SymbolHound: Search Better. Code Better.] http://symbolhound.com/ |
| 15:33 | borkdude | hq1 it's stll in cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:onOQFehkNQIJ:stackoverflow.com/questions/2578837/comparing-clojure-books+&cd=3&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl |
| 15:33 | Driadan | thanks :D |
| 15:33 | amalloy | borkdude: it's really off-topic for SO. it'd be fine on programmers.stackexchange.com, i imagine |
| 15:33 | hq1 | borkdude: ah, I think I've been there like year ago or so ;). cool, thanks |
| 15:34 | amalloy | though i dunno, maybe it'd be closed as non-constructive there |
| 15:34 | borkdude | amalloy maybe, I don't like these categorizations |
| 15:34 | hyPiRion | amalloy: wow, thanks |
| 15:34 | hyPiRion | (inc amalloy) |
| 15:34 | lazybot | ⇒ 45 |
| 15:34 | amalloy | hyPiRion: for what, symbolhound? |
| 15:34 | hyPiRion | amalloy: yeah |
| 15:34 | rcg | any idea why *ns* evaluates to user when being used after the (ns ...) definition in a .clj file? |
| 15:34 | amalloy | they don't index github at all, so i find them pretty useless personally |
| 15:42 | pjstadig | rcg: i'm guessing because *ns* is set to your ns during compiling, but when the code is finally loaded and the static initializer for the class runs (which is where the evaluation of *ns* happens) the value of *ns* is back to user |
| 15:43 | jamescarr | using the viterbi algorithm to send concurrent network requests? |
| 15:43 | rcg | pjstadig, hmm ic |
| 15:43 | rcg | any idea how to circumvent the issue? |
| 15:44 | SegFaultAX | amalloy: Do they only index StackOverflow and the SE network because at least the first page of results from symbolhound was just SO links. |
| 15:44 | pjstadig | rcg: i'm not sure exactly what you're trying to accomplish, but ... maybe |
| 15:44 | rcg | pjstadig, am trying to write junit style test output into a file named as the namespace |
| 15:45 | rcg | using a fixture for this, applied with (use-fixtures :once) |
| 15:46 | pjstadig | in clojure.test there is a way to hook in and produce different output |
| 15:46 | pjstadig | there is a junit XML output, if that's what you're interested in |
| 15:46 | pjstadig | but i've heard maybe it isn't perfect |
| 15:47 | rcg | pjstadig, no, i already get the junit output via with-junit-outpu |
| 15:47 | rcg | t |
| 15:47 | rcg | and i can also write it into a file via a writer |
| 15:47 | rcg | i just wanted to name the file according to the namespace name automatically |
| 15:47 | pjstadig | it seems like decisions about output should be made by the code that is running the tests, not necessarily the tests or fixtures |
| 15:48 | rcg | sounds sensible |
| 15:48 | pjstadig | there's a look somewhere that is looping namespaces and vars to tests and hooking into that, if you can, would be the place to worry about file names and output formats |
| 15:48 | rcg | that would be my next try then |
| 15:48 | pjstadig | loop* |
| 15:48 | rcg | right |
| 15:52 | jcromartie | I am not digging the data migration libs out there |
| 15:53 | jcromartie | drift looks better than Lobos |
| 15:53 | jcromartie | but I don't want to set up special paths and all that nonsense |
| 15:53 | jcromartie | why not just a namespace for migrations? |
| 15:53 | jcromartie | instead of a file per migration? |
| 15:59 | Driadan | if the file exists, what does the "Exception in thread "main" java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate cloturas/model/schema__init.class or cloturas/model/schema.clj on classpath" could mean? |
| 16:00 | Driadan | $ ls src/cloturas/models/schema.cls does find it |
| 16:01 | nDuff | Driadan: err, .cls? |
| 16:01 | Driadan | :O |
| 16:01 | Driadan | T_T |
| 16:01 | nDuff | Driadan: Driadan and models vs model |
| 16:01 | Driadan | thanks |
| 16:01 | nDuff | (singular vs plural) |
| 16:02 | Driadan | that'll teach me to double check |
| 16:02 | supersym | Clojure scares me a bit now and then... is that normal? |
| 16:02 | Driadan | mmm the cls was a typo, but the models |
| 16:03 | Driadan | was the problem |
| 16:04 | nDuff | supersym: Took a pretty significant while for me to grok it. |
| 16:04 | Driadan | supersym, it scares me always ;) I'm fighting against going to any other language I know |
| 16:05 | supersym | glad to hear :) |
| 16:07 | Driadan | I suppose it's expected, I'm only a couple of weeks into the language, and everything seems alien to me |
| 16:07 | fractastical | do people use liberator for serving REST responses? or can you get by fine with simply compojure? |
| 16:07 | fractastical | i'm struggling to figure out exactly how liberator is working |
| 16:08 | fractastical | in general so far with Clojure there are a lot of things I would expect to grok immediately |
| 16:08 | supersym | Driadan: I imagine you came here like me because those languages you knew most, if not all to learn |
| 16:08 | fractastical | that instead I end up staring at for awhile |
| 16:08 | supersym | where is the fun in that |
| 16:08 | supersym | nDuff: I have my little moments of insight, I consider ending up here and recognizing its awesomeness a case of enlightment :) |
| 16:09 | nDuff | Driadan: I spent a few months rereading The Joy of Clojure, a few years playing with the language on and off, and one year actually writing Clojure in production. |
| 16:10 | nDuff | Driadan: It's only about halfway through that year that I'd describe myself as comfortable, and there's a big gap between "comfortable" and mastery yet to traverse. |
| 16:10 | wink | there's even a big gap between baby steps and comfortable usage :P |
| 16:11 | wink | then again I found the start easier than in other functional languages |
| 16:11 | rplaca | technomancy: is there a seattle meetup next Thursday? |
| 16:14 | tieTYT | i have a function that I want to wait a random amount of time each time I call it. Do i have to learn about concurrency in clojure to do this? |
| 16:14 | hyPiRion | tieTYT: Not really, you can do (Thread/sleep (rand-int some-number)) |
| 16:15 | hyPiRion | ,(Thread/sleep (rand-int 2000)) |
| 16:15 | clojurebot | nil |
| 16:15 | hyPiRion | ,(Thread/sleep (rand-int 2000)) |
| 16:15 | clojurebot | nil |
| 16:15 | supersym | nDuff: thanks for sharing, I can imagine it will take myself about the same time and a lot of wikipedia reading up on the mathematic behind many subjects |
| 16:15 | tieTYT | ah so I gotta reach out into java? K |
| 16:15 | tieTYT | thanks |
| 16:15 | hyPiRion | tieTYT: np |
| 16:15 | supersym | my nomenclature fetish will send me right back at those anyway |
| 16:20 | Driadan | nDuff at least I know some of the stuff from functional languages, I'd be completely lost otherwise, but i never used it except for small stuff |
| 16:21 | Driadan | trying to build a webpage seems like a big deal right now (since I could do it easily in some other language) |
| 16:21 | antares_ | Driadan: do you know about http://clojure-doc.org? |
| 16:21 | danneu | Driadan: http://clojure-doc.org/articles/tutorials/basic_web_development.html |
| 16:21 | supersym | heh |
| 16:22 | antares_ | Driadan: Web development in Clojure is not really that mature yet, most people (my impression) use Clojure for data processing, stream processing, UI-less services, machine learning, … |
| 16:22 | antares_ | but not Web apps that have to render HTML |
| 16:23 | nDuff | antares_: I'd agree that there are still lots of improvements being made, but disagree that it's not in a thoroughly usable state. |
| 16:23 | fractastical | antares_ what about serving a rest API? |
| 16:24 | danneu | Clojure's basic web stack feels 1:1 with Ruby's Sinatra stack to me (and actually better). |
| 16:24 | antares_ | fractastical: that is pretty trivial with Compojure and Cheshire |
| 16:24 | fractastical | nDuff: I'm in a similar situation right now |
| 16:24 | fractastical | antares_: Cheshire keeps everything in memory though, no? |
| 16:25 | antares_ | Clojure is my favorite language for HTTP services but I don't have to generate HTML :) |
| 16:25 | antares_ | fractastical: I'm not sure but it is built on top of Jackson |
| 16:25 | fractastical | righto |
| 16:25 | antares_ | which I think has streaming support |
| 16:25 | supersym | antares_: true |
| 16:25 | dakrone | fractastical: depends on how you use it, it does have streaming support |
| 16:25 | fractastical | ok, interesting |
| 16:25 | fractastical | i already hooked up postgres+jdbc to my app |
| 16:25 | supersym | atm I just generate static HTML using coffee,stylus,jade,md and docpad on node.js |
| 16:26 | danneu | I frankly love generating HTML with Hiccup. It's an ultraterse Haml. |
| 16:26 | supersym | many dynamic engines/solutions or 1-page apps blow when its about SEO |
| 16:26 | antares_ | nDuff: sorry, I did not imply that it's not useable, just that it may be pretty rough around the edges and there are no good conventions yet |
| 16:26 | nDuff | *nod*. |
| 16:26 | nDuff | That's fair. |
| 16:26 | fractastical | antares_: how much throughput do you have in your HTTP services? |
| 16:26 | supersym | basically just kills it and most customers care.. so glad I spent much time perfecting that toolset so I can render pages in no-time because of code-cutting and short-hand notation |
| 16:27 | fractastical | I'm a bit worried about high load stuff, haven't seen too much documentation about that floating around |
| 16:27 | jcromartie | fractastical: you can test it w |
| 16:27 | antares_ | fractastical: about 10K with absolutely no tuning with Jetty 7. I bet Jetty 9 is noticeably higher, they did impressive performance work there. |
| 16:28 | fractastical | 10K req/sec ? |
| 16:28 | supersym | Docpad is really nice and I can easily create many native web stuff with livereload so that works great for me now in terms of productivity |
| 16:28 | antares_ | this is with some warm-up time and a very straightforward endpoint |
| 16:28 | jcromartie | fractastical: with ab or weighttp |
| 16:28 | antares_ | fractastical: correct |
| 16:28 | jcromartie | netty is a real beast if you wanted to make that ork |
| 16:28 | jcromartie | make that work |
| 16:29 | antares_ | fractastical: it highly depends on your concurrency levels, Jetty fairly transparently uses multiple cores |
| 16:29 | supersym | I long for the day I master clojure, LT and Clojure are mature and I can develop for web/desktop/? in those, but it will take some time :) |
| 16:29 | jcromartie | antares_, fractastical: I will be deploying a web service for up to 300K mobile users soon |
| 16:29 | jcromartie | it's Compojure right now |
| 16:29 | danneu | supersym: are you trying to build something that's out of your reach or something? |
| 16:29 | fractastical | jcromartie: how have you been testing that? |
| 16:29 | jcromartie | ab |
| 16:29 | antares_ | jcromartie: I'm just saying it's a good baseline, ~10K with absolutely no tuning and even more with Jetty upgrade |
| 16:29 | jcromartie | yeah |
| 16:30 | jcromartie | but I can't get ab to make 10K requests per second |
| 16:30 | antares_ | if you want 50K/s you will have to tune the hell out of anything |
| 16:30 | fractastical | jcromartie: how fast are you? |
| 16:30 | antares_ | jcromartie: I used two powerful machines and Linux. ab on OS X is badly broken :( |
| 16:30 | jcromartie | yeah it is |
| 16:32 | jcromartie | fractastical: I honestly have no idea right at the moment… I have made a mess of the API for the moment :P |
| 16:32 | fractastical | jcromartie: maybe we can have a longer private discussion then, we are doing something very similar |
| 16:33 | fractastical | a bit in the beginning stages, but i want to make sure we can scale out to >300K users |
| 16:33 | Driadan | antares_, danneu thanks, I know both resources, but thanks |
| 16:33 | jcromartie | sure! I love the opportunity to bounce ideas off of others |
| 16:34 | Driadan | antares_, currently I'm using web development because I have a small project to develop, that way I can start using it to learn |
| 16:36 | antares_ | Driadan: by all means start with what sounds interesting or relevant to you |
| 16:36 | antares_ | Driadan: but Web development with UI is a relatively weak point for Clojure right now, compared to data processing |
| 16:36 | Driadan | It's nothing fancy, mostly crud |
| 16:37 | Driadan | I'm doing it with luminus, following the tutorial and adjusting to my needs, seems good so far |
| 16:37 | Driadan | made me look for a couple of functions, read a lot, and stuff like that |
| 16:37 | Driadan | :) |
| 16:39 | danneu | Driadan: are you coming from another language/web stack? |
| 16:39 | Driadan | yep |
| 16:39 | danneu | Driadan: from where? |
| 16:39 | Driadan | mostly python with tornado and flask, but I've had my share of other stuff |
| 16:51 | danneu | If your library is expressed in macros that define functions, what's the general way to incorporate docstrings? do i refactor the macros to accept a docstring and then pass it on to the resulting defn? |
| 16:52 | rplaca | danneu: the the resulting functions define an API, then yes |
| 16:55 | Driadan | time to get some dinner |
| 16:55 | Driadan | see you guys later, have fun :) |
| 16:55 | danneu | take it ez |
| 16:57 | technomancy | rplaca: yeah, seajure is next week |
| 16:57 | pbostrom | hi y'all, I have a two pieces of information that I want to use as map key, a string and an id, e.g. ["abc" 123] and ["abc" 456] would be two different keys, I'm wondering what is the best way, just use the vectors as is, or convert to strings "abc_123", or keywords :abc_123 |
| 16:57 | pbostrom | I always feel weird when I use anything other than keywords |
| 16:57 | antares_ | pbostrom: just use a vector |
| 16:59 | danneu | if applicable you could create a nested hashmap if "abc" represents the same thing in both of those sample vectors |
| 17:07 | pellis | anyone knows what clojure course this is ? https://github.com/dbushenko/clojure_course_task01 |
| 17:10 | OlegYch | yeah that's by a friend of mine |
| 17:10 | asteve | what is the purpose of name? |
| 17:11 | SegFaultAX | ,(type (name :foo)) |
| 17:11 | aaelony | extract "a" from "a |
| 17:11 | clojurebot | java.lang.String |
| 17:11 | aaelony | :a |
| 17:12 | asteve | so it converts a symbol or keyword to a string? |
| 17:12 | aaelony | , (name (keyword "a")) |
| 17:12 | clojurebot | "a" |
| 17:13 | SegFaultAX | asteve: Try (doc name) at your repl. |
| 17:13 | asteve | SegFaultAX: I'm reading the clojure doc on it, but I don't understand the purpose |
| 17:14 | SegFaultAX | ,(map name [:foo 'foo "foo"]) |
| 17:14 | clojurebot | ("foo" "foo" "foo") |
| 17:14 | SegFaultAX | asteve: ^ |
| 17:15 | aaelony | asteve: suppose you read in some data that has a :foo key but you want to have "foo" not :foo. |
| 17:18 | turbofail | ,(name 'foo/bar) |
| 17:18 | clojurebot | "bar" |
| 17:18 | turbofail | it gets rid of the namespace too |
| 17:18 | turbofail | ,(str 'foo/bar) |
| 17:18 | clojurebot | "foo/bar" |
| 17:25 | danneu | i vaguely remember seeing a way to do (doc xyz) but for the clojuredoc (incl examples) as well. but i couldn't seem to google it. am i just making it up? |
| 17:26 | TimMc | cdoc |
| 17:26 | TimMc | But I don't know if you need a plugin. |
| 17:26 | technomancy | it ships with lein repl but might be made optional soon |
| 17:27 | TimMc | &(apropos 'doc) |
| 17:27 | lazybot | java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: apropos in this context |
| 17:27 | TimMc | &(use 'clojure.repl) |
| 17:27 | lazybot | ⇒ nil |
| 17:27 | TimMc | &(apropos 'doc) |
| 17:27 | lazybot | ⇒ (defdocument document build-doc find-docs doc* find-doc doc doc *clojuredocs-root* doctype javadoc-url *javadoc-base-url*) |
| 17:27 | TimMc | ...but what namespace, apropos? What namespace? |
| 17:27 | hiredman | ~apropos namespace |
| 17:27 | clojurebot | Open Library Author Namespace is a Namespace. (http://www.freebase.com/view//m/04sty07) |
| 17:28 | hyPiRion | clojurebot: wat |
| 17:28 | clojurebot | For Jswat: start clojure with -Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=n,address=8888 |
| 17:28 | TimMc | :-D |
| 17:28 | TimMc | JS-wat |
| 17:28 | hyPiRion | oh, thanks |
| 17:28 | hyPiRion | j-SWAT I suppose. |
| 17:38 | jcromartie | I am absolutely loving the in-memory H2 for development and testing |
| 17:38 | jcromartie | like, there's literally *nothing* to do to test database operations… they are totally contained to a single connection |
| 17:38 | jcromartie | when the last connection closes the in-memory DB is gone |
| 17:40 | wink | ugh |
| 17:40 | wink | I had huge problems last I tried to use it |
| 17:40 | wink | then again, I'm a little java-ecosystem-illiterate |
| 17:47 | kwertii | Can nREPL be made to deal with very large returned results nicely, by e.g. truncating them or just not printing them? |
| 17:51 | amalloy | kwertii: (do big-computation nil) |
| 17:51 | kwertii | amalloy: Yeah…. but sometimes I forget to do that, or something unexpectedly returns something huge …. :/ |
| 17:52 | kwertii | is there anything in nrepl-mode, maybe, that will just truncate after the first x characters? |
| 17:56 | TimMc | kwertii: You can set *print-length* and friends. |
| 17:56 | chawls | does anyone know if cgrand's enlive tutorial is out of date or if hackernews changed their layout? his scrape1/scrape2 examples aren't working for me. |
| 17:56 | TimMc | &(apropos "*print") |
| 17:56 | lazybot | ⇒ (*print-radix* *print-miser-width* *print-pprint-dispatch* *print-suppress-namespaces* *print-right-margin* *print-pretty* *print-base* *print-level* *print-length* *print-dup* *print-readably* *print-meta*) |
| 17:57 | TimMc | Whoa, *print-suppress-namespaces*. Cool. I wonder if that's part of pprint... |
| 17:58 | azkane | chawls: i remember having to change the url to https |
| 17:58 | amalloy | TimMc: apparently so |
| 17:58 | amalloy | neat |
| 17:59 | kwertii | TimMc: Cool. Thanks |
| 17:59 | chawls | azkane: that didn't work for me |
| 17:59 | kwertii | Can you make nrepl-mode run Clojure code at startup? |
| 18:01 | finishingmove | can i write this shorter? (map (fn[x] (* x 2)) '(1 2 3)) |
| 18:01 | TimMc | Sure, [2 4 6] :-P |
| 18:02 | TimMc | (map #(* 2 %) [1 2 3]) would be reasonable |
| 18:02 | SegFaultAX | ,(map #(* 2 %) [1 2 3]) |
| 18:02 | clojurebot | (2 4 6) |
| 18:02 | finishingmove | the anonymous function part |
| 18:02 | SegFaultAX | Or even ,(map (partial * 2) [1 2 3]) |
| 18:02 | finishingmove | hm i see |
| 18:02 | SegFaultAX | ,(map (partial * 2) [1 2 3]) |
| 18:02 | clojurebot | (2 4 6) |
| 18:05 | lpetit | Bodil: hi |
| 18:06 | finishingmove | ,(map (fn[x] (* x 2)) '(1 2 3)) |
| 18:06 | clojurebot | (2 4 6) |
| 18:06 | finishingmove | hm |
| 18:06 | finishingmove | when i write that in LightTable i get something like |
| 18:06 | finishingmove | 3 3 (2 4 6) |
| 18:06 | lpetit | Hello, any CCW (Counterclockwise) user here, using from the beta update site ? |
| 18:09 | algernon | finishingmove: the 3 3 are the intermediate params of the fn |
| 18:10 | algernon | finishingmove: the first 3 is the input param, the second is the x in (* x 2) |
| 18:10 | finishingmove | algernon so why just 3 ? |
| 18:11 | finishingmove | is it something like when you loop in javascript |
| 18:11 | TimMc | It's the last value seen for that binding, presumably. |
| 18:11 | algernon | finishingmove: because it displays the last thing going in (it probably queues displaying all, but only shows the latest) |
| 18:11 | finishingmove | and then the iterator retains value |
| 18:11 | finishingmove | ah |
| 18:11 | TimMc | finishingmove: Like that, but intentional, and it's an aspect of Light Table, not Clojure. |
| 18:11 | finishingmove | ah i understand |
| 18:17 | TimMc | I'm going to use java.nio.charset.CoderMalfunctionError for all my throwable needs from now on. |
| 18:17 | TimMc | because it's probably true |
| 18:18 | TimMc | Has anyone made an illustrated guide to Java exceptions? |
| 18:19 | TimMc | e.g. LinkageError and a picture of a busted linkage on a car |
| 18:19 | bosie | i am using vimclojure in vim and i am wondering if there is another plugin that would properly reformat my code? |
| 18:20 | Bodil | lpetit: Hi yourself :) |
| 18:20 | lpetit | Bodil: Seems like you did an impression today @ DevoxFR, congrats ! |
| 18:21 | Bodil | lpetit: Thanks, it was a good crowd. :) |
| 18:21 | lpetit | Bodil: Seems like it was all yours even before beginning :-p |
| 18:23 | Bodil | lpetit: I guess there was a bit of hype up front. :) |
| 18:23 | lpetit | Bodil: Will we see you at Mix It ? |
| 18:23 | Bodil | lpetit: No, wish I could go, but I'm organising three conferences in Oslo around that time... |
| 18:24 | lpetit | Bodil: Wow |
| 18:26 | lpetit | Bodil: Good luck then, organizing & all. Save some time for Catnip, tho! |
| 18:26 | antares_ | Bodil: looking forward to "what every hipster needs to know about organizing a conference" |
| 18:27 | Bodil | lpetit: Thanks. Don't worry, I've promised too many people paredit in Catnip to let it just sit there now... |
| 18:28 | Bodil | antares_: I can do that in one slide - "find other people to do the boring stuff." :) |
| 18:29 | lpetit | Bodil: yeah, but nobody like you does find the right picture to illustrate it ;) /cc antares_ |
| 18:29 | lpetit | Ok, enough flattery, and it's alsy time to rest a little bit, good bye all ;) |
| 18:30 | Bodil | nn! |
| 18:31 | hyPiRion | TimMc: You should see what I did in a project once. Every single method was a void, and I passed values around by extending Throwable |
| 18:32 | TimMc | hyPiRion: You should see what C did once. There were no exceptions, so it passed around error conditions as return values. :-P |
| 18:32 | hyPiRion | You know, I should probably keep all these insane projects for myself. At this pace noone would hire me if I lose my current job. |
| 18:32 | TimMc | Which is worse? |
| 18:32 | amalloy | TimMc: c'mon, that's a totally viable approach. it's how haskell does it |
| 18:32 | TimMc | heh! |
| 18:32 | amalloy | there's just...much nicer machinery to deal with it |
| 18:32 | hyPiRion | Monads man |
| 18:33 | hyPiRion | Well, the idea was to jump several steps on the stack to avoid handle special cases |
| 18:33 | amalloy | hyPiRion: worst superhero name ever? |
| 18:33 | hyPiRion | Monads, man* |
| 18:34 | antares_ | Bodil: yeah but tell it me with ponies |
| 18:48 | lpetit | New #Counterclockwise Beta with paredit slurp / barf & Leiningen (2.1.1) Integrated Command Line: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/clojuredev-users/8ay-3eterYA/YMzXoBqA1eoJ |
| 18:48 | hyPiRion | lpetit: Oh, "bad timing" |
| 18:49 | hyPiRion | Leiningen 2.1.2 was just released |
| 18:49 | hyPiRion | but sweet |
| 18:49 | technomancy | the curse of everyone choosing Thursday as their open source hack day |
| 18:49 | lpetit | hyPiRion: Ah ! :-) Anyway, it's just a beta, will roll out a new one in a few days |
| 18:50 | rplaca | technomancy: is there a seattle meetup next Thursday? |
| 18:50 | lpetit | I would not have had time to test CCW integration with Leiningen 2.1.2 anyway |
| 18:50 | hyPiRion | I suspect it's more due to Easter, unless you guys don't have holidays |
| 18:50 | hyPiRion | lpetit: just bugfixes, actually |
| 18:51 | technomancy | rplaca: for the third time, yes =) |
| 18:51 | lpetit | hyPiRion: Yeah, and one or two internal API changes as well, he ;) |
| 18:51 | rplaca | technomancy: sorry, I didn't see your answer so I thought you didn't see my question :) |
| 18:51 | hyPiRion | lpetit: ah, yeah, I suspect it's a bit more critical for CCW |
| 18:51 | technomancy | must be a pretty unstable connection =) |
| 18:51 | hyPiRion | ,(repeat 3 'yes) |
| 18:51 | clojurebot | (yes yes yes) |
| 18:52 | rplaca | technomancy: looks like I'll be in town - I'll try to join up |
| 18:52 | lpetit | technomancy, hyPiRion : I was able of the risk, no regret :-) |
| 18:52 | technomancy | rplaca: cool. this one will be down in the pioneer square location. |
| 18:52 | lpetit | I already said that 1/2 hour earlier, good bye all, cu |
| 18:53 | moredogmeat | hello |
| 18:53 | rplaca | technomancy: that's perfect since that's where I'll be working |
| 18:53 | moredogmeat | does anyone know how to get rid of #<core$read_line clojure.core$read_line@4e68e6bf> when I use read-line? |
| 18:53 | technomancy | rplaca: it's a fun part of town |
| 18:53 | technomancy | as long as you don't have to park down there |
| 18:54 | rplaca | technomancy: it is - I've been wandering in and out of there the past 8 months or so |
| 18:54 | technomancy | oh yeah, with the consulting gig; nice |
| 18:54 | rplaca | an easy trip from SF with the light rail and all |
| 18:54 | rplaca | well, barring client crisis, I'll see you then |
| 18:57 | technomancy | cool |
| 18:58 | moredogmeat | hello, sorry, is this the correct channel for asking clojure questions? |
| 18:59 | hyPiRion | moredogmeat: it is indeed the correct channel to ask clojure questions, yes :) |
| 18:59 | supersym | :D |
| 19:00 | moredogmeat | cool thanks, I have a somewhat "stupid" question: :) |
| 19:00 | moredogmeat | I'm using read-line but I keep on getting #<core$read_line clojure.core$read_line@4e68e6bf> when I run the program |
| 19:00 | moredogmeat | how do I get rid of it? |
| 19:01 | moredogmeat | I'm using something like (loop [line read-line] |
| 19:01 | hyPiRion | moredogmeat: ah, that's the problem |
| 19:01 | hyPiRion | read-line is a function, and in Clojure, you can return functions |
| 19:01 | hyPiRion | ,read-line |
| 19:01 | clojurebot | #<core$read_line clojure.core$read_line@18ef813> |
| 19:01 | hyPiRion | but if you call it |
| 19:01 | hyPiRion | ,(read-line) ; (will crash here) |
| 19:01 | clojurebot | Execution Timed Out |
| 19:02 | nfisher | Sorry to interrupt what's the best way to run a test suite in the repl? |
| 19:02 | moredogmeat | I thought loop [line read-line] is similar to (let [line read-line]) no? |
| 19:02 | nfisher | (or individual test set) |
| 19:02 | TimMc | (sh/sh "lein" "test") :-P |
| 19:02 | nfisher | haha TimMc thanks! :P |
| 19:02 | hyPiRion | moredogmeat: yes, but here's the thing, you don't call the function, you just return it |
| 19:03 | hyPiRion | See the difference here: |
| 19:03 | hyPiRion | ,+ |
| 19:03 | clojurebot | #<core$_PLUS_ clojure.core$_PLUS_@13a55c> |
| 19:03 | hyPiRion | ,(+ 1 2) |
| 19:03 | clojurebot | 3 |
| 19:03 | nfisher | TimMc I have a (run-tests 'etl.core-test) |
| 19:03 | moredogmeat | nod hyPiRion |
| 19:03 | nfisher | at the bottom of my test but, I suspect that isn't the best of ideas. |
| 19:03 | nfisher | brb |
| 19:04 | hyPiRion | moredogmeat: What you'd like is most likely (loop [line (read-line)] ... |
| 19:04 | moredogmeat | what's the idiomatic way to use read-line to process user input until I either Ctrl-D or say 'q'? |
| 19:04 | TimMc | nfisher: I've never tried. You're trying to test new code in the repl? |
| 19:04 | moredogmeat | oh ok thanks hyPiRion |
| 19:05 | moredogmeat | woot, you are right! thank you |
| 19:05 | nfisher | TimMc yeah I've been writing unit tests. |
| 19:05 | nfisher | To verify it parses correctly |
| 19:06 | Driadan | hi |
| 19:06 | hyPiRion | moredogmeat: no problem :) |
| 19:37 | jcromartie | bleh, people PMing me to ask me to to homework for them |
| 19:37 | muhoo | jcromartie: O_o |
| 19:37 | jcromartie | "homework" |
| 19:38 | jcromartie | there's one guy who asks for JavaScript help once in a while but now he's just like "hey can you do this too: ..." |
| 19:38 | muhoo | who has homework in javascript? |
| 19:39 | cdh473 | "homework" |
| 19:39 | jcromartie | I don't mind looking at something and giving comments or a little refactoring |
| 19:39 | jcromartie | give a man a fish, and all that |
| 19:51 | bytechunky | is there a way to undo the effects of 'def'? |
| 19:52 | bbloom | bytechunky: ##(doc ns-unmap) |
| 19:52 | lazybot | java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! ns-unmap is bad! |
| 19:52 | bbloom | (doc ns-unmap) |
| 19:52 | clojurebot | "([ns sym]); Removes the mappings for the symbol from the namespace." |
| 19:52 | bytechunky | ah very good. thanks |
| 19:57 | bytechunky | i am having trouble trying to obtain an AST of a form from a source file |
| 19:58 | bytechunky | (i am using clojure.tools.analyzer) |
| 20:06 | st3fan | you can see it in action at http://192.81.214.162:3000/ |
| 20:08 | bytechunky | @st3fan: what does it do? showing subway information? |
| 20:10 | st3fan | bytechunky: streetcars :) |
| 20:10 | st3fan | it talks to the nextbus.com api to get predictions for routes |
| 20:11 | Raynes | I wish LA buses had GPS. :( |
| 20:11 | bytechunky | st3fan: so i guess this is live data of ... departure times? |
| 20:11 | jcromartie | nice |
| 20:11 | amalloy | Raynes: they don't? |
| 20:11 | Driadan | good night |
| 20:12 | Raynes | amalloy: If they do they don't report to anything I've tried on my phone or laptop. They give estimates based on when they're supposed to run. |
| 20:12 | Raynes | Which is more or less entirely useless because of traffic. |
| 20:12 | st3fan | Raynes: there is a mention of LA on http://www.nextbus.com/predictor/agencySelector.jsp#California-Northern |
| 20:12 | st3fan | oh estimates suck, you really want gps yes |
| 20:13 | Raynes | wat |
| 20:13 | st3fan | bytechunky: the code is at https://github.com/st3fan/clj-transit .. i'm cleaning it up now and writing some insturctions on hwo to get it going |
| 20:13 | Raynes | st3fan: Well, this says METRO buses have this technology. |
| 20:14 | Raynes | So either this technology is always wrong, or... |
| 20:14 | st3fan | give it a try on the nextbus site . maybe it works better than you think :) |
| 20:15 | Raynes | st3fan: http://www.smartrideapp.com/ is what I've been using, and I assumed it pulled from nextbus. |
| 20:15 | Raynes | I'll see about getting something that explicitly mentions nextbus. |
| 20:16 | st3fan | yeah it probably does |
| 20:16 | st3fan | i'm working on a mobile app too, that uses your current position to find the nearest stops |
| 20:16 | Raynes | I'll try it tonight. |
| 20:16 | Raynes | On my way home. |
| 20:17 | Raynes | st3fan: The one I was using does that. I think all of them do. |
| 20:17 | Raynes | I've used at least 2 apps on the iPhone that detect nearby stops. |
| 20:17 | st3fan | yeah i know there are plenty .. i'm just doing it to learn some new technologies |
| 20:17 | Raynes | Oh, I wasn't dismissing your project. |
| 20:17 | st3fan | my target is Firefox OS |
| 20:18 | Raynes | Are you using clj-transit to do this? |
| 20:18 | st3fan | yup |
| 20:18 | st3fan | clj-transit is what runs on http://192.81.214.162:3000/ |
| 20:18 | Raynes | Cooool |
| 20:20 | st3fan | that app just uses predefined stops but i actually also load all the routes and stop positions into a geo db so that i can find stops nearby (the nextbus api does not do that) |
| 20:20 | st3fan | it has been a good clojure intro project :) |
| 20:21 | Raynes | Ahhhhhh! XML! |
| 20:22 | st3fan | yeah :-( |
| 20:22 | st3fan | i'm looking at ways to make the xml parsing code better .. i'm not super proud of it |
| 20:23 | cornotahti | Raynes: I had a nightmare that you hated me |
| 20:23 | cornotahti | You don't really ate me do you. |
| 20:23 | cdh473 | anyone here start programming with clojure as a first language? |
| 20:24 | st3fan | cdh473: i envy you :) |
| 20:24 | cdh473 | st3fan: you shouldn't, i started with batch |
| 20:24 | st3fan | oh ok haha |
| 20:24 | cdh473 | st3fan: i'm experimenting with the idea of teaching it as a first language, clojure, and so far it has been extremely successful |
| 20:24 | st3fan | yeah i can't see why that would not work |
| 20:25 | st3fan | see SICP |
| 20:25 | cdh473 | indeed |
| 20:25 | cdh473 | i would have taught scheme, were it more "relevant" |
| 20:25 | cornotahti | Scheme is probably better as a first language. |
| 20:25 | hyPiRion | cdh473: There was this guy who did it, he was on the channel for about 2 months ago I think. |
| 20:26 | cornotahti | The point about teaching people good languages as a first language is that even though they program well, they aren't like 'omfg, cheme is so elegant' when they first encounter it, they are like 'wtf, ava is fucking nonsenstical garbage' when they first encunter it |
| 20:26 | hyPiRion | I think he had the usual "startup" issues related to any programming language, but extrapolating anything useful out of one datapoint is always scary. |
| 20:26 | cdh473 | cornotahti: i agree, yet i would like to at least experiment with it |
| 20:27 | cornotahti | Nothing wrong with experimenting on human beings that way, I'm teaching my barely speaking daughter higher maths to see if I can breed a maths super genius |
| 20:27 | cdh473 | lol |
| 20:27 | cdh473 | i hope that's sarcastic |
| 20:27 | cornotahti | They say you can breed a super genius just by exposing them to a specialized subject early on because brain will wire itself to accomodate that ubject then |
| 20:27 | cornotahti | No it's not. |
| 20:27 | cornotahti | IT's been done before. |
| 20:27 | cornotahti | TErrance Tao was such an experiment, as were the Pólgár sisters |
| 20:28 | hyPiRion | oh, there was this psychologist doing the same with chess to his sisters? |
| 20:28 | cdh473 | wouldn't it end up damaging other cognitive development? |
| 20:28 | hyPiRion | *daughters |
| 20:28 | supersym | lol |
| 20:28 | cornotahti | hyPiRion: well, he wasn't a psychologist, he was a chess player |
| 20:28 | st3fan | cornotahti: wat what age can i teach my daughter clojure you think? (she is 3 weeks now :) |
| 20:28 | cornotahti | They are basically the three best female chess players by a vast margin now. The youngest one in particular. |
| 20:28 | supersym | I plan to teach my gfs little neice |
| 20:28 | cornotahti | I assume talking is on the first order of business. |
| 20:29 | supersym | I was thinking to slip in TuxMath :) |
| 20:29 | st3fan | hehe yeah |
| 20:29 | hyPiRion | cornotahti: ah |
| 20:29 | cdh473 | maybe i should implant a C64 into the mother's womb |
| 20:29 | cornotahti | The theory is that human beings can accomplish such vastly complex feats like walking upright talking, recognizing faces purely because they were introduced to it at a young age. |
| 20:29 | hyPiRion | Close enough :) |
| 20:29 | cornotahti | If you look at it objectively, speaking a language surely is harder than advanced maths. |
| 20:29 | amalloy | st3fan: get her some parenthesis pillows today |
| 20:29 | supersym | no it isnt |
| 20:30 | cdh473 | cornotahti: depending on how the brain develops, yes. yes it is. |
| 20:30 | supersym | kids see language not like we do |
| 20:30 | cornotahti | Tell that to AI programmers |
| 20:30 | supersym | to them, they are streams of words |
| 20:30 | cdh473 | supersym: because they have been around it |
| 20:30 | cdh473 | supersym: if they grow up around advanced math, they will accomodate that better |
| 20:31 | cornotahti | It's a lot harder to make a program that outputs coherent sentences of ENglish than a program that outputs coherent maths. |
| 20:31 | cornotahti | The grammatical rules for English are vastly more complicated |
| 20:31 | supersym | yea and the path has been paved... there is a reason to the order of subjects in math |
| 20:31 | hyPiRion | cornotahti: speaking a language is harder than advanced math? |
| 20:31 | cornotahti | Well, the rules of any natural language are infinitely more complex. |
| 20:31 | hyPiRion | cornotahti: What is more likely, that a PhD in maths manage to do a masters in French or vice versa? |
| 20:32 | cornotahti | The only reason we can actually do it is because our brains were wired to it from an early age is the theory. Basically if a kid that is 9 year old is only accustomed to the concept of language then, they can't even develop a native language. |
| 20:32 | supersym | the rules may be a bit more complex, but given a vocabulary of about 2500 words you can express any concept |
| 20:32 | cornotahti | They can master little more tan a chimp |
| 20:32 | supersym | and it becomes harder to distinguish if someone "masters" a language |
| 20:33 | supersym | the thing is,...kids dont "think" about language too much |
| 20:33 | cdh473 | supersym: a child can either develop the language portion of the brain during the critical period, or be without full development in that area forever. |
| 20:33 | cornotahti | supersym: okay, say I give you this ultimatum, you will either write a program that checks if a formal mathematical proof is correct or not or if an English sentence is, and I will shoot you if there are false positives or negatives. |
| 20:33 | supersym | and both calculus and language are parts of the entire package in education... but say extra-curricular scholarship in the secrets of math is bound to help anyone |
| 20:33 | cornotahti | Wat would you choose? |
| 20:34 | cornotahti | I'd go with the proof checker myelf, much easier. |
| 20:34 | cornotahti | For one, they already exist, language checkers not so much |
| 20:34 | cdh473 | likewise, a child can develop natural math abilities early-on, or not. |
| 20:34 | cdh473 | by the time the child gets into schooling, it's already too late |
| 20:34 | cdh473 | most of that part of the brain is already formed if it's going to be |
| 20:34 | supersym | thats not the point :) |
| 20:34 | cornotahti | Yeah |
| 20:34 | cornotahti | THat _is_ the point |
| 20:35 | cornotahti | That kid's brains are wired towards language becaue they were accustomed to it from an early age. |
| 20:35 | cornotahti | And if they don't, then they can't even learn a native language later. |
| 20:35 | cornotahti | After a certain age, people lose the capacity to learn a language by imitation only. |
| 20:35 | cdh473 | they can't even learn it the way a native english speaker learns spanish |
| 20:35 | cdh473 | they don't have anything to relate the words to |
| 20:36 | supersym | but its more or less done now and we can build on the work of others... but with math, you have to understand, like really understand the basics to get any further... while language is greatly a subconcious process I think... not many people think in mathematical terms |
| 20:36 | cdh473 | err... not enough |
| 20:36 | cornotahti | I mean, babies teach themselves to speak fluent English simply from watching it around them while they do't even have another language to compareit with, how sick is that |
| 20:36 | supersym | perhaps a few rainmen here and there |
| 20:36 | cornotahti | No one explains it to them |
| 20:36 | supersym | http://www.cruxbot.com/ |
| 20:36 | cdh473 | supersym: part of the problem with math is that the english language does not allow natural math discussion and thought |
| 20:36 | cornotahti | supersym: you don't ave to understand it if you get taught at an early age is the theory. |
| 20:37 | cornotahti | Same with the polgar sisters |
| 20:37 | cdh473 | there are languages more accustomed to math discussion |
| 20:37 | cornotahti | THey all claim they play chess on an intuitive level, they don't really understand what they are doing either and have a hard time explaining what they are doing |
| 20:37 | cdh473 | and you'll notice that the children there have greater capacity for learning math |
| 20:37 | supersym | cdh473: true i guess :) |
| 20:37 | supersym | i see |
| 20:37 | cornotahti | They don't actually consciously think about it because they acquired it from such an early age it becomes second nature, like chess, or addition of numbers. |
| 20:38 | cornotahti | Like ehh, know the Pirahã tribe in South AMerica? |
| 20:38 | cornotahti | Which famously does not have a concept of numbers |
| 20:38 | cornotahti | You cannot teach the adults to even count to 4. |
| 20:38 | cdh473 | i'd like to see someone do that with Go |
| 20:38 | cornotahti | But the kids, just fine |
| 20:38 | cdh473 | as opposed to chess |
| 20:39 | cdh473 | another interesting thing to do would be to teach math to children using finger binary |
| 20:39 | cornotahti | You know people have learnt something early enough when they can't explain why it is so, they just know it si. |
| 20:39 | cornotahti | Like ask a 7 year old what 8+3 is, they will say 11, they cannot explain why though. |
| 20:39 | amalloy | can we move this to #babychessprodigies? if someone has a clojure question it will get lost in this stream |
| 20:39 | cornotahti | They certainly do not need to understand it, as in apply peano arithmetics, to arrive at 11. |
| 20:40 | cornotahti | amalloy: if you give me a cuddle. |
| 20:40 | cdh473 | lol, #babychessprodigies |
| 20:42 | cdh473 | i should point out that i'm actually teaching the subject clojurescript rather than clojure, may be a difference there |
| 20:43 | cdh473 | i just can't bear to see anyone have to use javascript ;) |
| 20:43 | supersym | clj, cljs all the same in that respect :P |
| 20:44 | supersym | cdh473: yeah I never liked it from aesthetical perspective, so I often just use coffee but implicit is often something you'd want to avoid |
| 20:45 | supersym | and thats the same problem with cljs for that matter: if other people have to work with it, it needs to be readable |
| 20:45 | cdh473 | perhaps he will have an easier time then, coming from such a background |
| 20:45 | supersym | shame so few people eventually end up with lisp-like languages in that respect that it holds back the potential in community development |
| 20:46 | supersym | definitly |
| 20:46 | cdh473 | i have a feeling haskell may catch up to clojure eventually, where clojure excels, but something about it feels off |
| 20:47 | cdh473 | i have faith clojure will succeed more than previous lisps, due largely to the fact that it's so widely usable |
| 20:47 | cdh473 | it is literally the java of lisps :P |
| 20:50 | cdh473 | I saw a text editor for clojure a while back, but I can't remember the name of it. It reminded me a bit of sublime text, anyone know what it might have been? |
| 20:53 | supersym | dunno... I use LightTable |
| 20:53 | supersym | almost exclusively now |
| 20:53 | cdh473 | that looks like it. oooooh yes. |
| 20:53 | cdh473 | thanks. |
| 20:53 | supersym | :) |
| 20:54 | supersym | <3 instarepl feedback + doc |
| 20:54 | cdh473 | holy sweet jesus, this is fantastic |
| 20:55 | supersym | now thats about what I think every time... that and "how could we have missed this" |
| 20:55 | supersym | truth is, of course as often, things with emacs had already evolved in that direction |
| 20:56 | supersym | you might want to take a peek at github.com/overtone/emacs-live |
| 20:56 | supersym | same guy |
| 20:56 | cdh473 | i just can't get myself to use emacs anymore |
| 20:57 | supersym | there are 2 lighttables btw |
| 20:57 | supersym | playground (on github) and that from the website |
| 20:57 | ted_ | I am new to clojure. I am working with Korma and h2. When I insert a record a record, I get {:SCOPE_IDENTITY() 1} as the result. How do I get the number out of there? |
| 20:57 | cdh473 | supersym: is it stable? |
| 20:58 | supersym | they are really a bit different in the sense that, I believe, the lighttable-playground is to get structured feedback+metrics on |
| 20:58 | supersym | its pre-alpha but very workable already...stable yes |
| 20:58 | supersym | never crashed with me but it runs on chrome |
| 20:58 | supersym | and that has been giving me problems with flash on linux lately... |
| 20:59 | supersym | freeze etc.. but fixed now, its still as stable as chromium is |
| 20:59 | supersym | dynamically linked chromium packed with clojure(script), jquery and a few node.js modules |
| 21:00 | supersym | then hook any java/lein project you want...the repl can connect to it |
| 21:00 | tieTYT | i'm sort of into testing |
| 21:00 | cdh473 | supersym: what if i want to use CLR? |
| 21:00 | tieTYT | i know in ruby you don't really need DI frameworks because you can just open up a dependency and replace it's new() method. Can clojure do things like this? |
| 21:01 | tieTYT | like i'm writing this program that uses an http client. I'd like to test it without actually hitting the web |
| 21:01 | supersym | people have done it,..with .net |
| 21:02 | supersym | i believe one of the visualstudio core developers is a frequent visitor here and used it with CLR/.NET |
| 21:02 | supersym | not sure who it was tho |
| 21:02 | st3fan | i really like lighttable but i got frustrated by its limited functionality atm |
| 21:02 | supersym | or you ment LightTable itself, that is language agnostic |
| 21:03 | supersym | or supposed to become tho |
| 21:03 | st3fan | also the instarepl turned out to be not that useful for more complex things |
| 21:03 | cdh473 | does the repl let you call functions defined in your program? |
| 21:03 | st3fan | yes |
| 21:03 | st3fan | or change those functions |
| 21:03 | cdh473 | sweet |
| 21:04 | st3fan | the repl is one of the best things in clojure imo |
| 21:04 | st3fan | but you might need some time to get used to that style of coding |
| 21:05 | st3fan | s/style/way/ |
| 21:05 | cdh473 | i am |
| 21:05 | st3fan | i'm trying to turn my app into a .war now, so that i can drop it in tomcat |
| 21:08 | supersym | true |
| 21:08 | supersym | large projects, I found visual studio to be a dream |
| 21:08 | supersym | much better than eclipse |
| 21:09 | supersym | but it becomes a pain, all the options, when you want to focus |
| 21:09 | supersym | 20 windows dont help |
| 21:09 | cdh473 | yeah |
| 21:09 | cdh473 | i'm a big C# guy myself |
| 21:10 | cdh473 | originally coming from java, i found VS really nice |
| 21:10 | supersym | like you have writer mode for text editors, I like the repl for 'larger' snippet works, but either it would become a full fledged IDE, or someone/thing else would fill that neice eventually... fact is that this kind of IDE are complex beasts |
| 21:10 | supersym | and it takes a $$$ company or tons of ppl to get it done |
| 21:10 | supersym | I bet |
| 21:11 | cdh473 | which is why you focus on 1 language |
| 21:11 | cdh473 | http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2005/01/its-the-ide-dummy.html |
| 21:11 | supersym | and some plugins really make it even better where they left off, and I only worked with VS2010, 2012 is supposed to be even better |
| 21:12 | cdh473 | it is. |
| 21:13 | supersym | good topic there cdh473..thanks |
| 21:13 | cdh473 | :3 |
| 21:14 | supersym | i find it a bit dualistic in nature tho |
| 21:14 | supersym | i worked so hard to rid myself of windows, mouse, went to a tiling window manager (now xmonad) |
| 21:15 | supersym | only to go back to x, y GUI |
| 21:16 | supersym | although the alternatives arent great either |
| 21:17 | cdh473 | indeed |
| 21:17 | supersym | ideally a code editor would distinguish between any programming language, and the (literate) text that goes with it |
| 21:18 | supersym | but emacs/babel/org-mode I think has everything you'd need on that level...its the plugins/generators of a IDE that really add value to it |
| 21:20 | supersym | often I found it to be a delicate balance between cleaness, readability and expressiveness e.g. you have to explicitly tell emacs babel what code is in the blocks, (implying it is near impossible and undesirable) but you can make it run anything that has an interpreter |
| 21:22 | supersym | there is only so much you should want to cut away |
| 21:23 | supersym | but back to the IDE though, I found also after seeing it all and ending up here, that a lot of stuff I did in the .NET environment, to be either added weight |
| 21:23 | supersym | or easily done with any basic UNIX tool since a lot of it were repeating patterns of stuff |
| 21:24 | supersym | imho...intellisense and VS like tools make for dumber programmers |
| 21:24 | cdh473 | or people who can work without an internet connection :P |
| 21:25 | cdh473 | (yes, it was a jest) |
| 21:25 | supersym | :) |
| 21:26 | supersym | regardless how you take it, everything has atleast a certain amount of learning curve |
| 21:27 | supersym | just once you been through many programs and code often enough, you get better and faster at it..looking up information. |
| 21:27 | supersym | It helps if you know how/where to look... |
| 21:28 | supersym | then again I get why only a small amount of web programmers actually "get" the DOM |
| 21:28 | supersym | those w3org documents are unreadable :P |
| 21:29 | cdh473 | client-side web programmers don't even count :P |
| 21:29 | cdh473 | most of the time, anyways |
| 21:29 | supersym | a good question is if you have to "get it"...you can work with it without understanding too much and html is friendly, forgiving of mistakes |
| 21:30 | supersym | haha :) |
| 21:30 | supersym | yeah ur right |
| 21:30 | st3fan | wow travis-ci is awesome .. https://travis-ci.org/st3fan/clj-transit |
| 21:30 | st3fan | took 2 minutes to setup .. really cool |
| 21:31 | hyPiRion | st3fan: yeah, it's very Clojure friendly |
| 21:31 | cdh473 | i feel like html is a terrible language now for the purpose it serves |
| 21:31 | supersym | anyway they are tradeoffs as well, the hypertext languages are designed like that for a reason too, not always, with enough common sense but also loose rules because the whole world will have to comply (or not if they dont feel like it) and then there is Microsoft/IE |
| 21:31 | MikeSeth | anybody here who is a nrepl wizard? I am looking at bencode responses I get and I am not sure if I am missing something |
| 21:31 | supersym | good thing they choose Java for clj |
| 21:32 | cdh473 | supersym: i did an html/css replacement based on s-expressions |
| 21:33 | supersym | :) |
| 21:34 | supersym | I make my money atm as front-end development mostly...I just nearly perfected my code-cutting skills at it so Clojure like that is a next logical step |
| 21:34 | cdh473 | that, and whitespace syntax (only as sugar, of course) and a few other features like hierarchical style sheets and advanced types for markup elements |
| 21:34 | supersym | yeah mixed feelings on significant whitespaces |
| 21:35 | cdh473 | it's entirely optional |
| 21:35 | MikeSeth | obligatory python joke |
| 21:35 | supersym | and thats really great |
| 21:35 | supersym | everything is optional, so its up to the programmer to understand what to do when |
| 21:35 | st3fan | hyPiRion: do you know if it is possible to see nice test overviews in travis? |
| 21:35 | cdh473 | the elements were represented as they are in the DOM |
| 21:36 | supersym | it involves some 'thinking' about it though and fact is, a lot more web developers feel comfortable with JS probably also because the web is literally crowded with examples to cut and paste |
| 21:36 | cdh473 | for instance, instead of doing <p id="foo" class="bar"></p> |
| 21:36 | cdh473 | you just did [p#foo.bar] |
| 21:36 | cdh473 | oh, it has no closing tags either ;) |
| 21:36 | supersym | ppl tend to be lazy or build on work of others which is a good thing.. but past it? I dont see a web without HTML/JS at the moment, |
| 21:37 | supersym | :P |
| 21:37 | cdh473 | no, it compiles to html/css |
| 21:37 | cdh473 | very cleanly, in fact |
| 21:37 | supersym | yeah |
| 21:38 | supersym | so thats to it then... and which is why cljs is such as well,...a stage where nearly everything and anything can (trans)compile to JS |
| 21:38 | supersym | and its good I guess, a tad too verbose for me but it works |
| 21:39 | cdh473 | i thought the cool thing was how well the styling language was the same as the markup language; that was an accident that it came out so seamless |
| 21:39 | supersym | :) |
| 21:39 | cdh473 | http://cdh473.com/vanguard/standard.php if you are interested |
| 21:40 | supersym | cool |
| 21:40 | supersym | interesting |
| 21:41 | cdh473 | (still not done with it due to school) |
| 21:41 | supersym | I've been thinking about these things as well lately |
| 21:43 | hyPiRion | st3fan: hmm, well, I think the interface is okay-ish, albeit a bit laggy at times |
| 21:43 | hyPiRion | You could probably hit up the docs and check it out though |
| 21:44 | cdh473 | http://snipt.org/zhfjf3 |
| 21:44 | ToBeReplaced | what's the right way to compare two maps to see if they have the same keys? (= (set (keys m1)) (set (keys m2)))? |
| 21:44 | cdh473 | that was a comparison between a snippet of vanguard and CSS |
| 21:47 | hyPiRion | ToBeReplaced: keys perhaps? |
| 21:48 | hyPiRion | ,(= (keys {:a 1 :b 2}) (keys {:a 3 :b 6})) |
| 21:48 | clojurebot | true |
| 21:48 | hyPiRion | waittt |
| 21:48 | hyPiRion | ,(keys {:a 1 :b 2}) |
| 21:48 | clojurebot | (:a :b) |
| 21:49 | hyPiRion | Do something like (-> {:a 1 :b 2} keys set) instead, and compare those |
| 21:49 | hyPiRion | oh wait |
| 21:49 | hyPiRion | I'll go to bed, ignore me. |
| 21:50 | ToBeReplaced | :) i was wondering if there was something more idiomatic or efficient... i have a sequence of maps, and i want to guarantee as i iterate through that they all have the same keys |
| 21:51 | hyPiRion | ToBeReplaced: So you need to check that all have the same set of keys? |
| 21:52 | hyPiRion | You could probably compare the map sizes first, that's constant time |
| 21:52 | hyPiRion | (the size lookup) |
| 21:55 | tomoj | (= (.keySet a) (.keySet b)) ? |
| 21:55 | tomoj | looks to be ~6x faster than (comp set keys) |
| 21:56 | tomoj | ..on a big map |
| 21:57 | hyPiRion | (and (= (count a) (count b)) (every? #(contains? b %) (keys a))) should be fast too |
| 21:58 | supersym | cool |
| 22:02 | supersym | I need a bit of help too if only pointers |
| 22:03 | cdh473 | on what? |
| 22:03 | supersym | I work on a board game we play here in the Netherlands called trictrac, its played on a backgammon board |
| 22:03 | supersym | two players working in oposite directions towards eachother |
| 22:03 | supersym | 4x6 pigeonholes |
| 22:05 | supersym | since its only two players with 15 game pieces each, and 6x4 slots, I figured I could use pos and neg integers where field is -5 to +5 because each player can have a max of 5 pieces on a slot/field |
| 22:05 | supersym | I was just wondering about the datatype to use for the playing field, a array or list |
| 22:06 | supersym | I have 2-dices (rand int) and with the outcome you can move the pieces forward and hit someone when they only have 1 piece inside a slot |
| 22:07 | cdh473 | well if the playing field is a constant size, i'd use an array |
| 22:08 | supersym | ok and 4x6 or 24 one-dimension? |
| 22:08 | ToBeReplaced | tomoj: hyperion: thanks |
| 22:09 | tomoj | hyperion's answer is better |
| 22:09 | supersym | because there are rules like: you can only move to the second section of 6 slots once all pieces are in play, you can only move to the last section once every piece is out of the begin section |
| 22:10 | cdh473 | what advantages do arrays give you? |
| 22:10 | cdh473 | (asking you to self-evaluate) |
| 22:10 | supersym | I guess one is easier and just neglect any outside its range that is limited in dynamcs |
| 22:10 | cdh473 | then, what advantages does a list give you? |
| 22:10 | cdh473 | oops |
| 22:10 | supersym | good question :P |
| 22:10 | cdh473 | disregard that |
| 22:11 | cdh473 | or not |
| 22:11 | supersym | I'm not sure :) |
| 22:11 | cdh473 | i am too tired lol |
| 22:11 | supersym | well same here and I could be overthinking tho |
| 22:12 | supersym | I geuss the board is its state to persist and it can be a sequence of integers in a element range -5 to 5 with 24 slots and take peek/pops |
| 22:12 | supersym | that would be a lispy way I guess... yeah its mostly learning to think in the clojure/lisp way of doing things now |
| 22:15 | supersym | yeah same here being tired and I should know these things ... or refactor later.. premature optimization anyway |
| 22:18 | cdh473 | indeed |
| 22:19 | dnolen | supersym: I would use a vector |
| 22:21 | tyler | in datomic im running a query and it throwing an error on IllegalStateException Attempting to call unbound fn: #'clojure.core/mapv |
| 22:21 | tieTYT2 | i've read about the clojure concurrency support, but it didn't explain how the separate threads get started. Do I just start them myself with the Thread class? |
| 22:21 | tyler | its mapv a function in clojure.core? |
| 22:21 | tyler | or is it some how 'monkey patched', please excuse my ignorance |
| 22:24 | dnolen | tieTYT: that's one way yes. you could also use an agent or a future too. |
| 22:25 | tyler | hrm now its throwing it when i try to start repl, maybe i got a bug somewhere |
| 22:26 | tyler | oh had that query run on require |
| 22:26 | tyler | so same error |
| 22:26 | tieTYT2 | an agent would be for a slow task to do asynchronously that you don't care about, right? |
| 22:28 | dnolen | tieTYT2: I think agents are really about uncoordinated changes. |
| 22:31 | MikeSeth | is lein's cli repl a full implementation of nrepl client? can I e.g. switch repl sessions in it? |
| 22:32 | MikeSeth | supersym: this is more or less the problem I've been playing with and the answer is vectors |
| 22:38 | supersym | I knew it |
| 22:38 | supersym | should have trusted my gut feeling |
| 22:38 | supersym | thanks :) |
| 22:39 | ivan | MikeSeth: yes, it uses reply which is an nREPL client |
| 22:45 | tieTYT2 | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15696574/does-clojure-need-dependency-injection-to-make-code-more-testable |
| 22:46 | hyPiRion | tieTYT2: with-redefs |
| 22:47 | hyPiRion | Not sure if I can do this in the clojurebot repl, but an attempt |
| 22:47 | tieTYT2 | let me google that |
| 22:49 | tieTYT2 | ha the examples there show my case |
| 22:50 | tieTYT2 | thanks |
| 22:51 | hyPiRion | ,(with-redefs [class (constantly :what)] (class {1 2 3 4})) |
| 22:51 | clojurebot | :what |
| 22:53 | tieTYT2 | ha |
| 22:57 | supersym | can struct keys be any data type? |
| 22:58 | supersym | it doesnt seem to like a range, Java heap exception after a while |
| 22:58 | dnolen | supersym: best to avoid structs, deprecated |
| 22:58 | supersym | great.. thanks |
| 22:59 | supersym | I guess a protocol would be a suitable replacement? |
| 22:59 | dnolen | supersym: maps work just as well, and the keys can be arbitrary |
| 22:59 | supersym | ah ok |
| 23:00 | amalloy | well, (range) is still not a good key for a hashmap :P |
| 23:00 | supersym | true |
| 23:00 | supersym | it was a very naive writedown of something :P |
| 23:09 | xumingmingv | a silly question: why *clojure-version* is declared as a dynamic binding? what's the purpose? |
| 23:18 | tyler | i have a datastructure that looks like (([foo] [foo] [foo])([foo] [foo])) how do i turn it into ([foo] [foo] [foo] [foo] [foo] [foo]) ? |
| 23:18 | `arrdem | ,(doc concat) |
| 23:18 | clojurebot | "([] [x] [x y] [x y & zs]); Returns a lazy seq representing the concatenation of the elements in the supplied colls." |
| 23:18 | tyler | `arrdem: thnx |
| 23:20 | tyler | ,(concat '(([] [] [])([] []))) |
| 23:20 | clojurebot | (([] [] []) ([] [])) |
| 23:20 | tyler | ... |
| 23:21 | `arrdem | ,(apply concat '(([] [] [])([] []))) |
| 23:21 | clojurebot | ([] [] [] [] []) |
| 23:21 | tyler | ahh |
| 23:21 | tyler | good ol apply |
| 23:21 | tyler | thnx |
| 23:24 | supersym | ,(+ (rand-int 6) 1) |
| 23:24 | clojurebot | 5 |
| 23:24 | supersym | would that be proper use or mess up the (pseudo) 'randomization' :) |
| 23:27 | supersym | i dunno why i ask/look at these things... i never do that :S guess it seems a bit hacky but I couldn't think of another way to get random 1-6 values :P |
| 23:28 | `arrdem | how is that hacky? that's obvious... |
| 23:28 | `arrdem | take a distribution and shift it by a constant into your desired range |
| 23:29 | supersym | haha ok... so thats just me still uncomfortable with prefix notation |
| 23:29 | supersym | yeah it seems valid :D |
| 23:29 | `arrdem | I mean I could be picky and demand that you use (inc) rather than (+ 1).. |
| 23:30 | supersym | right ;) |
| 23:31 | `arrdem | (def integer (conc (opt sign) integer)) yeah that'll work -_- |
| 23:31 | supersym | that looks a lot cleaner anyway |
| 23:32 | `arrdem | inc? yeah usually does. |
| 23:32 | tieTYT2 | what is rich hickey's stance on automated testing? I've gathered he doesn't like TDD, but I haven't heard him say anything else |
| 23:32 | supersym | yup.. see didnt know that function but should have guessed there would be one |
| 23:33 | `arrdem | yeah other lisps call it things like 1+... |
| 23:33 | `arrdem | don't think it's +1 anywhere tho. |
| 23:33 | supersym | lol |
| 23:33 | `arrdem | clojurebot: +1 is ,(doc inc) |
| 23:33 | clojurebot | You don't have to tell me twice. |
| 23:34 | `arrdem | ~+1 |
| 23:34 | clojurebot | +1 is ,(doc inc) |
| 23:34 | `arrdem | close enough. |
| 23:34 | supersym | *grin* |
| 23:35 | thm_prover | Is there a variant of cons that owrks with with the maybe monad? i.e. I want somethign which takes a list of Maybe's, and drops the Nothings, and takes the value out of the Justs |
| 23:36 | tieTYT2 | clojure has a maybe and a monad? |
| 23:39 | dnolen | tieTYT: it does not |
| 23:40 | thm_prover | dnolen: https://github.com/clojure/algo.monads |
| 23:40 | dnolen | thm_prover: well, as a lib sure |
| 23:40 | thm_prover | dnolen: patched match yet? :-) |
| 23:41 | dnolen | thm_prover: nope, waiting for you to send me a fix ;) |
| 23:41 | tieTYT2 | this is weird. Hard for me to see the advantage without static typing |
| 23:41 | dnolen | tieTYT2: monads are a control abstraction, static types make them a bit easier to work w/ |
| 23:41 | thm_prover | dnolen: unlikely, my copy of "The Book of Shen" just arrived today |
| 23:42 | dnolen | thm_prover: hehe, fun |
| 23:42 | thm_prover | I feel like if we could merge Rich Hickey's ability to create practical language with Mark Tarver's ability to create powerful languges, I'd be happy. |
| 23:45 | thm_prover | http://hpaste.org/84800 <-- I want to know how to write this piece of code as a domonad |
| 23:45 | supersym | ok I should rarely use lists,...vectors are for random access, assoc-in is what I seeked. Getting the hang of it :) |
| 23:51 | tyler | I have something that looks like (["tyler" 23] ["tyler" 34] ["don" 64]["don" 82]) how to i translate to (["tyler" [23 34]] ["don" [64 82]]) |
| 23:52 | tyler | s/how to/how do/ |
| 23:52 | `arrdem | ,(doc group-by) |
| 23:52 | clojurebot | "([f coll]); Returns a map of the elements of coll keyed by the result of f on each element. The value at each key will be a vector of the corresponding elements, in the order they appeared in coll." |
| 23:52 | tyler | `arrdem: thanks |
| 23:52 | supersym | ,(assoc [0 0 0 0 0 0] 0 0 1 0 1 0) |
| 23:52 | clojurebot | [0 0 0 0 0 ...] |
| 23:53 | supersym | why doesnt that work though |
| 23:54 | metellus | supersym: what do you expect from it? |
| 23:54 | supersym | these are pidgeon hold/counters |
| 23:54 | supersym | vector [0 0 1 0 1 0] |
| 23:55 | supersym | *hole |
| 23:55 | metellus | ,(doc assoc) |
| 23:55 | clojurebot | "([map key val] [map key val & kvs]); assoc[iate]. When applied to a map, returns a new map of the same (hashed/sorted) type, that contains the mapping of key(s) to val(s). When applied to a vector, returns a new vector that contains val at index. Note - index must be <= (count vector)." |
| 23:55 | metellus | it's treating 0 0 1 0 1 0 as pairs of index, new value |
| 23:55 | metellus | so it's putting 0 at index 0, then 0 at index 1, then 0 at index 1 |
| 23:56 | supersym | ahhh |
| 23:56 | supersym | i see |
| 23:56 | metellus | ,(assoc [0 0 0 0 0 0] 3 1) |
| 23:56 | clojurebot | [0 0 0 1 0 ...] |
| 23:56 | supersym | i have them mixed up |
| 23:57 | supersym | ,(assoc [0 0 0 0 0 0] 3 1 5 1) |
| 23:57 | clojurebot | [0 0 0 1 0 ...] |
| 23:57 | supersym | thanks |
| 23:59 | tyler | ,(group-by first '(["tyler" 23] ["tyler" 34] ["don" 64]["don" 82])) |
| 23:59 | clojurebot | {"tyler" [["tyler" 23] ["tyler" 34]], "don" [["don" 64] ["don" 82]]} |
| 23:59 | tyler | heh |
| 23:59 | technomancy | tyler: you could use merge-with too |
