#clojure – 2013-03-27

2013-03-27

00:01	ivan	http://bugs.sun.com/view_bug.do?bug_id=4262078 says to JCP it
00:10	jonasen	dnolen: why is core.logic/llist a macro? (I made it a function and all tests pass)
00:15	Sgeo	People sometimes write a macro when a function would work. Don't know if that's the case here though
00:15	Sgeo	It is the case with whatchamacallit monad library
00:15	Sgeo	lift was made a macro instead of a function
00:26	n_b	Is there a clojure equivalent to rake?
00:43	rbxbx	n_b: I feel like most people use leiningen to those ends.
00:43	n_b	I think I must be missing something/glossed over some documentation. Basically I want to have it try and grab some static files and toss them into lib/ if they don't already exist/haven't changed
00:44	antares_	n_b: a custom Leiningen task can do that
00:45	n_b	Ah, alright. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything obvious/preferred. Will throw that on the todo list and try and throw it on GitHub once finished. Thanks for the help rbxbx and antares_
00:45	rbxbx	cheers.
00:45	antares_	n_b: tasks and plugins are covered by https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/doc/PLUGINS.md
00:53	firesofmay	Is it possible to do bulk require in clojure? like test.* :as t
00:53	firesofmay	and I refer all the ns inside test like t.app, t.core etc?
00:59	firesofmay	anyone?
00:59	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
01:00	rbxbx	firesofmay what's your question? :require foo :as bar should work, no?
01:00	rbxbx	you can also use :use if you don't want to namespace it
01:01	rbxbx	(though that's typically frowned upon in production code)
01:01	firesofmay	rbxbx yes but I would like to do something like import foo.bar.* :as baz
01:01	rbxbx	for java imports?
01:01	firesofmay	rbxbx and then do bas.app1/fn , bas.app2/fn
01:01	firesofmay	rbxbx no for clojure ns
01:02	firesofmay	rbxbx I have many ns inside a directory and instead of doing require for all can i do :as on the directory itself?
01:02	amalloy	firesofmay: no
01:02	rbxbx	ah okay
01:02	firesofmay	amalloy okay
01:02	rbxbx	^^^ what that guy said
01:03	rbxbx	well, amalloy. not yourself.
01:03	firesofmay	rbxbx amalloy so no way to do this except require each of them?
01:03	rbxbx	firesofmay I dare say you should ask yourself why that's necessitated.
01:04	firesofmay	rbxbx I am basically writing my tests for iPhone in clojure using calabash.
01:04	amalloy	well, i actually don't think it would be such a bad idea (whereas being able to :use or :import multiple namespaces would be)
01:04	firesofmay	rbxbx and I wanted to separate each view as its own ns
01:05	firesofmay	amalloy I don't want to do :use. wanted the require but was wondering if there is a way around bulk require.
01:06	rbxbx	firesofmay I'm not sure how to help. Sorry.
01:06	firesofmay	rbxbx no problem :)
01:40	hyPiRion	gfredericks, TimMc: Ping.
02:07	tyler	im trying to implement irc nick auto complete in clojure
02:08	tyler	anyone have any algorithm ideas?
02:09	arrdem	tyler: a trie is probably your best bet.. maybe a probability weighted trie at that.
02:10	arrdem	that is, a trie such that the order of its children when iterating is decided not by the character ordinal values, but in order of decreasing probability of following the parent.
02:19	tieTYT2	would it be advantageous to have a repl that auto reloads files?
02:19	tieTYT2	i never want to use an out of date one
02:19	tieTYT2	or is there a shorthand way of reloading all the current namespaces I've required?
02:20	arrdem	tieTYT2: if you're in emacs there's got to be a way to re-eval files on buffer flush
02:20	arrdem	if you find one share the snippet 'cause I want it.
02:21	arrdem	in the more general case not sure. Noir did some magic to reload files at runtime but I don't think your average repl will.
02:21	tieTYT2	i see
02:22	tieTYT2	well i use intellij's plugin (atm) not emacs
02:22	tieTYT2	but it sounds like you want this feature too
02:22	arrdem	I mean.. if I spent 15 with the manual and google I could build it.. for emacs and nrepl.
02:22	arrdem	as it is I relaod files when I save them anyway
02:23	tieTYT2	how?
02:23	clojurebot	with style and grace
02:23	tieTYT2	emacs script?
02:24	ivan	C-c C-k runs the command nrepl-load-current-buffer
02:25	arrdem	and C-c C-l is the general lisp-mode eval buffer
02:25	ivan	tools.namespace can reload everything you've required
02:26	arrdem	you can also enter (use 'my-ns :reload-all) to force clojure to read from source again
02:27	arrdem	I don't know anything specifically about the intelliJ LaClojure environment, but I'm sure there's a "load file" command somewhere that should also do for you.
02:28	tieTYT2	arrdem: well i use lein side by side with it
02:28	tieTYT2	which is probably a bad idea
02:28	tieTYT2	i think there's a bug in it
02:28	arrdem	it's an approach...
02:28	tieTYT2	in la clojure I mean
02:28	arrdem	mine was tmux with vim and lein for months
02:28	tieTYT2	it's hard to figure out how to start up a repl
02:29	arrdem	what OS are you on? windows, mac or a real Nix?
02:30	tieTYT2	ivan: cool. I'll look into that later
02:30	tieTYT2	windows
02:31	arrdem	hum can't help you much then. If you were mac or linux I'd strongly suggest looking into emacs.. I know that official emacs builds exist for windows but I've never used one and thus won't attempt to commend it to you.
02:31	tieTYT2	IME learning a new editor can reduce your productivity for weeks
02:32	tieTYT2	and since I'm also learning clojure at the same time, I'm not sure i could handle that
02:32	arrdem	hah I learned Vim, Tmux and Clojure at the same time this past summer. My productivity was in the tank for two week straight.
02:32	arrdem	I absolutely understand not wanting to change environments.
02:33	tieTYT2	there's an eclipse and netbeans plugin i haven't tried yet
02:33	tieTYT2	if they're better i may swithc
02:34	ivan	Emacs works fine on Windows
02:34	arrdem	with nrepl?
02:34	ivan	yep
02:34	arrdem	can't say I'm shocked...
02:34	ivan	though if git is in your PATH it may take 4 seconds per call to git, perhaps 47 seconds to start if you have Emacs loading all your files on startup
02:35	ivan	git.cmd is the trainwreck, git.exe is reasonably fast
02:35	arrdem	yuck
02:35	arrdem	and I thought that Eight Megabytes And Constant Swapping was bad on Linux...
03:02	DaReaper5	i need some help working with an input stream
03:03	DaReaper5	i need to: create a zip input stream from an array of input streams
03:04	amalloy	DaReaper5: https://github.com/flatland/io/blob/develop/src/flatland/io/core.clj
03:05	amalloy	ie, if you (:require flatland.io.core, [clojure.java.io :as io]), you should be able to just call (io/input-stream (seq the-array-of-streams))
03:06	DaReaper5	really1?
03:06	DaReaper5	that seems to easy
03:06	DaReaper5	i need to return the zip to a client (this is a component on a clojure server)
03:06	amalloy	well, you still have to wrap it in a zipinputstream however
03:07	amalloy	i'm just handling the array part
03:07	DaReaper5	oh i see
03:07	amalloy	but java.util.zip contains a wrapper that turns an inputstream into a zipstream
03:07	amalloy	so that's like no work
03:07	DaReaper5	i hope
03:07	DaReaper5	something like this:
03:08	DaReaper5	zipInStream (java.util.zip.ZipInputStream. (io/input-stream allReports))
03:08	DaReaper5	?
03:08	DaReaper5	allReports is my array
03:09	DaReaper5	shouldnt i need to add each individually
03:09	DaReaper5	and specify a name?
03:14	DaReaper5	amalloy?
03:14	clojurebot	amalloy is <amalloy> just use juxt, it'll be great
03:14	amalloy	zip input streams are for reading zip files. you want to write a zip file, so you have to do something else entirely
03:15	DaReaper5	ya
03:15	DaReaper5	i think i have to read the input stream like a buffer
03:15	DaReaper5	for each one
03:15	DaReaper5	ew
03:19	DaReaper5	can i use io/copy to convert the inputstream to an outputstream
03:19	DaReaper5	which i can just call toByteArray on?
03:20	arrdem	you should be able to..
03:21	arrdem	if you have another object to act as an output buffer
03:27	tomoj	DaReaper5: example https://www.refheap.com/paste/80bad6da903cc2e6542b33d3d
04:23	piranha	is there a threading function in clojure core akin to ->, but which will call fns? Something like (... x #(func1 % arg1) #(func2 arg2 %))
04:23	arrdem	so -> is wacky when it comes to inline fns.
04:24	arrdem	if you define an inline fn, then you need to parenthesize it in order for -> to invoke it correctly.
04:24	arrdem	eg. #(println "foo") -> (#(println "foo"))
04:25	arrdem	however if you have a bound function, say clojure.core/inc, you can just stick that in line and -> will deal with it.
04:25	arrdem	there is the function comp, which is similar to -> in effects...
04:25	arrdem	,(doc comp)
04:25	clojurebot	"([] [f] [f g] [f g h] [f1 f2 f3 & fs]); Takes a set of functions and returns a fn that is the composition of those fns. The returned fn takes a variable number of args, applies the rightmost of fns to the args, the next fn (right-to-left) to the result, etc."
04:26	arrdem	,((comp #(* 3 %) inc dec dec) 3)
04:26	clojurebot	6
04:34	piranha	arrdem: hm, sure, comp looks like a good choice for that
04:35	arrdem	note what they are intended for tho.. comp returns a function which must be called while -> is intended for un-nesting expressions.
04:36	arrdem	,(-> {} (assoc :foo 1) (assoc :bar 2) (assoc :baz 3))
04:36	clojurebot	{:baz 3, :bar 2, :foo 1}
04:37	arrdem	is equivalent to (and macroexpands to) &(assoc (assoc (assoc {} :foo 1) :bar 2) :baz 3)
04:37	arrdem	,(assoc (assoc (assoc {} :foo 1) :bar 2) :baz 3)
04:37	clojurebot	{:baz 3, :bar 2, :foo 1}
04:44	piranha	arrdem: yes, well, I understand that
04:44	piranha	arrdem: in the end it seems for quick repl sessions ->> and wrapping all others in parens works best for me :)
04:44	piranha	i.e. (->> a (#(s/split % #"&")) (map #(s/split % #"=")) (into {}) (#(get % "url")) java.net.URLDecoder/decode)
04:44	tomoj	anyone thinking about reducer fusion?
04:45	piranha	->> is better than -> because map in other case will require wrapping in fn, which means even more text
04:45	arrdem	tomoj: please elaborate
04:49	piranha	is it possible to somehow install package with lein without creating a project.clj with this package in dependencies?
04:49	piranha	like in python I would do 'pip install lxml' and the lxml will be available for use in repl
04:50	arrdem	yeah so in Lein 1.X that was doable
04:50	arrdem	in Lein 2.X not so much....
04:50	piranha	eh :(
04:50	arrdem	you can add packages to your Lein profile for autoloading..
04:50	arrdem	which gets you almost the same place
04:51	arrdem	but in general no Lein isn't designed to just kick off a repl and hack any old where it's designed to be a project tool.
04:52	arrdem	anyone else still alive please correct me, but that's my understanding and I'm not going to ping technomancy in here for this at 2AM PST
04:53	wink	still alive? at work for nearly an hour already... silly americans 8)
04:53	kalasjohnny2000	when lein trampoline cljsbuild repl-listen I get Exception in thread "main" java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: contains? not supported on type: clojure.lang.LazySeq at cljs.closure: at cljs.closure$js_dependencies$fn__1448.invoke(closure.clj:540)
04:54	kalasjohnny2000	I run clojure 1.5.1, cljsbuild 0.3.0, lein 2.1.1
04:54	kalasjohnny2000	it seems to me that it\s a lazy dependency list that has to be realized
04:55	wink	piranha: I've wished for that in the past too, but maybe there's even a way I don't know of. I'd suggest #leiningen later on :)
04:56	kalasjohnny2000	wov, I check #leiningen.
04:56	piranha	wink: yeah, in the mean time I've just added package to one of projects, downloaded it and removed; maybe writing a plugin would be nice for that...
04:57	wink	piranha: yes, but if it's possible it needs to be documented. if not, it might be worth building.
05:02	tomoj	arrdem: ..you did ping him :)
05:04	tomoj	arrdem: to elaborate, an example: (r/map inc coll) -> (reify CollReduce (coll-reduce [_ f val] (r/reduce (fn [ret v] (f ret (inc v))) coll)))
05:05	tomoj	basically the idea is just to do some reducer transformations at compile time instead of runtime
05:05	Glenjamin	arrdem, wink if its for having in an arbitrary repl to play with, ~/.lein/profiles.clj seems like the right place
05:05	arrdem	tomoj: damnit who the shit uses non-prefix ping notifications
05:05	tomoj	(well, I bet he's using erc, dunno his config — mine (the default) highlights on all mentions)
05:07	arrdem	,(doc ret)
05:07	clojurebot	Huh?
05:08	tomoj	I'm thinking like collections containing primitives and supporting fast loops (matrices?)
05:09	arrdem	hum.. you're into deeper magic than I'm familliar with or can reason about at 4am local
05:09	tomoj	do the reducer transform at compile time and your math is all inlined, no boxing (except across fork/join tasks), and maybe fusion of loops over zipped collections, for the 'multireducer' case
05:09	tomoj	ah, OK
05:10	arrdem	so that'll work just fine for fixed dimensionality vector aditions and scalar multiplication
05:10	arrdem	not sure if it's applicable to multiplication tho
05:12	arrdem	well if you can inline your transpose? somehow..
05:12	tomoj	transpose is pretty close to free I think
05:12	arrdem	it should be
05:13	tomoj	hmm
05:13	arrdem	because A * B is the matrix M being the dot products of A[i] by col and B[i] by row
05:13	arrdem	yay I learned something in linalg and remembered it!
05:13	arrdem	isn't that what core.matrix is doing already tho?
05:15	tomoj	core.matrix is already trying to be a matrix library
05:15	tomoj	s/trying to be //
05:15	arrdem	oh and this is just a more general reducer structure?
05:15	tomoj	well, yeah, and I'm not sure I like core.matrix :)
05:16	arrdem	seemed.. heavily engineered when I looked at it
05:16	arrdem	but maybe I'm just too used to my own "lone hacker" style where I don't have to support anyone but myself XP
05:17	tomoj	I'm not too interested in protocols wrapping a bunch of java libraries
05:18	tomoj	I want one very fast pure-clojure reducer-based impl, and a compatible CUDA impl, and that's it
05:18	tomoj	with as few new protocols as possible
05:18	arrdem	if this thing runs on CUDA, my hat is off to you
05:20	tomoj	my bottleneck is matrix multiplication so I think it should be pretty easy to satisfy myself initially
05:20	tomoj	whether you can really do a full reducer-based matrix library with compatible Clojure/CUDA impls.. no clue
05:24	arrdem	I
05:24	ejackson	tomoj that would be impressive
05:24	arrdem	'll be interested to see if you can pull it off.. is that something you think could be extended to generic arithmetic operaitons, or only primitive type arithmetic?
05:24	tomoj	impressive as in "oh, that's cool" or as in "no way, that's impossible!"
05:25	tomoj	hmm
05:25	tomoj	generic arithmetic == a multimethod?
05:25	tomoj	not going to put a multimethod in the inner matrix loop :)
05:26	arrdem	lol I wouldn't ask you to
05:26	tomoj	but if you had really flexible reducers and your arithmetic can be defined on a product of primitives (like complex arithmetic) then that seems like a really interesting idea
05:27	arrdem	this last weekend I was playing with doing a Protocol based CAS by defing protocols for + & -, another for * and a third for /
05:27	tomoj	instead of reduce-kv (fn [ret k v]) it'd be like reduce-complex (fn [ret real imag]) ?
05:27	arrdem	not sure.
05:28	tomoj	can only go up to the quaternions with primitives :)
05:29	ejackson	tomoj: i don't see why it shouldn't be possible!
05:29	arrdem	0430 arrdem can't track quaternions
05:29	arrdem	will add to reading stack
05:30	ciphergoth_	I want to write a unit test for my cookie code: I got to url X, and that sets a cookie, and so when I go to Y, I'm allowed because I have a cookie. Is there something that will help me do that?
05:30	tomoj	oh, no, actually, you only get max 3 primitive args after the monoid
05:31	tomoj	well if you're doing crazy inlining it doesn't matter anyway I suppose
07:38	ToBeReplaced	anyone use OData from clojure?
07:41	clgv	s/ToBeReplaced/NowReplaced/
07:42	clgv	oh that's a Microsoft format^^
07:43	clgv	ToBeReplaced: do you use ClojureCLR? then you could just use one of micrsofts libs (they have one, right?)
07:45	ToBeReplaced	i don't; it looks like i could use odata4j though
07:47	clgv	ToBeReplaced: is this for work or a hobby project?
07:48	ToBeReplaced	work
07:48	ToBeReplaced	only consuming OData, not producing
07:50	clgv	ok, from the google code page it is not easy to tell how active this project is maintained
07:50	ToBeReplaced	seems like the best java option... odata.org lists is as the java implementation with no alternatives
07:51	clgv	ah ok. so you have no choice but to try it^^
07:52	ToBeReplaced	yep :)
08:30	ciphergoth	Hmm, is there something already existing that takes a request and a local URL, and returns an absolute URL suitable for handing to ring.util.response/redirect?
08:32	weavejester	ciphergoth: The java.net.URL constructor does a little like what you want.
08:33	ciphergoth	bah. Think that HTTP should have allowed relative URLs in Location headers
08:34	ciphergoth	all popular browsers will accept a relative URL[citation needed], and it is correct according to the upcoming revision of HTTP/1.1[citation needed].
08:34	ciphergoth	hmmmmmm
08:35	skoodge	ambrosebs: is there a type for sets in core.typed?
08:35	ambrosebs	skoodge: IPersistentSet
08:35	ambrosebs	eg. (IPersistentSet Number)
08:35	skoodge	ah, ok, thanks
08:36	ambrosebs	skoodge: np. To be clearer, I mean clojure.lang.IPersistentSet.
08:38	skoodge	ambrosebs: yep, seems obvious in retrospect, as strings are java.lang.String. Didn't make the connection that I could user other "java" types, too. oh well...
08:40	ambrosebs	skoodge: I don't think I've documented it anywhere, so don't beat yourself up. My fault.
08:43	skoodge	ambrosebs: when I'm using a map in a homogeneous way, I guess (IPersistentMap a b) is the correct type, right?
08:43	ambrosebs	skoodge: correct
08:43	skoodge	great, thanks
08:47	TimMc	hyPiRion: PONG
08:50	hyPiRion	TimMc: https://github.com/hyPiRion/hello-swearjure
08:51	hyPiRion	That a program printing "Hello, World!" in Swearjure with only meta and ns-map (the project.clj) is also swearjurized
08:52	TimMc	That is truly a work of great beauty.
08:52	hyPiRion	indeed
08:52	TimMc	The project.clj is a wonderful touch.
08:54	TimMc	I look forward to the writeup... and the compiler.
08:55	hyPiRion	yeah, it's not all that complex really
08:55	hyPiRion	I just have to remember what I did, I think.
08:55	TimMc	You got ahold of eval through ns-map?
08:55	Bronsa	ww-woah
08:56	hyPiRion	TimMc: yeah
08:58	TimMc	This all depends on arbitrary map ordering, then?
08:58	hyPiRion	hahah, yeah. That's why it's only working on Leiningen 2.1.x
08:58	lsoa	what does ^ mean in clojure?
08:58	TimMc	I'm not surprised it doesn't work as a jar.
08:59	TimMc	lsoa: It's a way to attach metadata to a compile-time form.
08:59	lsoa	(let [^Server s (create-server (dissoc options...
08:59	TimMc	lsoa: It's used to attach doc strings, add type hints, make vars private...
08:59	lsoa	so this says s is of type Server
08:59	TimMc	Sort of.
08:59	hyPiRion	So the bootstrap part is essentially (defn -- [-] (meta -)), (defn + [] (ns-map )), then right after I define ++, which is essentially (defn ++ [+] (get-in (+ (:ns (-- #'+))) [+ 1]))
09:00	skoodge	is it possible to rename java libraries loaded using import?
09:00	lsoa	an instance of class Server?
09:00	TimMc	lsoa: I mean yes, that's what it says, but the only impact is on interop forms.
09:00	lsoa	I see, thanks :)
09:01	TimMc	So if you call (.foo s), Clojure knows that's Server.foo
09:01	TimMc	and doesn't have to emit code to do reflection
09:01	lsoa	ahh interesting
09:01	TimMc	lsoa: There's no actual type-checking.
09:02	TimMc	&(let [^String x (apply + (range 5))] (* 2 x))
09:02	lazybot	⇒ 20
09:02	TimMc	&(let [^String x (apply + (range 5))] (.toString x))
09:02	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to java.lang.String
09:02	TimMc	&(let [x (apply + (range 5))] (.toString x))
09:02	lazybot	⇒ "10"
09:03	TimMc	skoodge: Not using the ns form, but you can do it by hand right after it.
09:03	skoodge	how? By defining my own bindings using (def new-name old-name)?
09:04	TimMc	skoodge: https://github.com/baznex/imports/blob/v1.4.0/src/org/baznex/imports.clj#L59
09:06	TimMc	,(.importClass ns 'M java.lang.Math)
09:06	clojurebot	java.lang.Math
09:06	TimMc	,(M/abs -5)
09:06	clojurebot	5
09:06	TimMc	skoodge: ^
09:07	skoodge	TimMc: wow, nice snippet. Thanks a lot
09:07	TimMc	Mind you, this is slightly skeevy.
09:08	TimMc	Theoretically, clojure.lang.Namespace/importClass could be renamed at any time.
09:15	hyPiRion	,(importClass ns 'm java.lang.Math)
09:15	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: importClass in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
09:15	hyPiRion	,(.importClass ns 'm java.lang.Math)
09:15	clojurebot	java.lang.Math
09:15	hyPiRion	ohhhhh
09:17	TimMc	,(.importClass ns '& java.lang.Math)
09:17	clojurebot	java.lang.Math
09:17	TimMc	,(&/abs -5)
09:17	clojurebot	5
09:18	hyPiRion	woop
09:18	hyPiRion	,(.importClass ns 'nil java.lang.Math)
09:18	clojurebot	#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
09:18	hyPiRion	oh well, worth a shot
09:18	hyPiRion	,(.importClass ns 'true java.lang.Math)
09:18	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Boolean cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol>
09:19	hyPiRion	,(.importClass ns 'let java.lang.Math)
09:19	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var cannot be cast to java.lang.Class>
09:19	TimMc	,(.importClass ns (symbol "true") java.lang.Math)
09:19	clojurebot	java.lang.Math
09:19	hyPiRion	I think I'll stop there for today
09:19	hyPiRion	oh
09:19	supersym	:)
09:19	TimMc	,(true/abs -5)
09:19	clojurebot	5
09:19	hyPiRion	,(true? true)
09:19	clojurebot	true
09:20	hyPiRion	,(.importClass ns (symbol "let") java.lang.Math)
09:20	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var cannot be cast to java.lang.Class>
09:20	hyPiRion	boo
09:21	TimMc	...interesting.
09:22	rkneufeld	hyPiRion: not sure if this is relevant to you at all, but here, have some math: https://github.com/alandipert/mathemagician
09:22	TimMc	hyPiRion: That doesn't look right.
09:23	TimMc	rkneufeld: That looks like a subset of what org.baznex/imports does (or is planned to do).
09:24	hyPiRion	,(symbol "let")
09:24	clojurebot	let
09:24	hyPiRion	,(-> "let" symbol symbol?)
09:24	clojurebot	true
09:25	hyPiRion	We live in a strange world.
09:26	ambrosebs	skoodge: This should be useful https://github.com/clojuredocs/cds/blob/master/articles/ecosystem/core_typed/types.md
09:29	skoodge	ambrosebs: ah, great. Do you already have common type aliases defined somewhere? Not only things like Option, but also for example an alias Set to avoid always writing IPersistentSet
09:30	ambrosebs	No, that would probably be a good idea for portability.
09:34	dnolen	ambrosebs: did you see this new feature in typescript, not sure if it's relevant for typed racket or typed clojure but it's interesting - http://blogs.msdn.com/b/typescript/archive/2013/03/25/working-on-typescript-0-9-generics-overload-on-constants-and-compiler-performance.aspx
09:34	dnolen	ambrosebs: constants can refine the return type
09:37	ambrosebs	dnolen: that's cool. We can do it in TR and TC with function intersections. (Fn [(Value :a) -> String] [(Value "a") -> Number])
09:37	dnolen	ambrosebs: ah cool!
09:37	ambrosebs	dnolen: I had no idea Typescript didn't have generics :/
09:40	ambrosebs	dnolen: so do some JS libraries have interesting/complicated types? continuations and such?
09:41	dnolen	ambrosebs: hmm, maybe
09:54	bosie	i tried to get lein midje running but it fails on me
09:54	bosie	https://www.refheap.com/paste/13002
09:54	bosie	even without any facts i get this error
10:04	TimMc	amalloy: Welp. It turns out that defrecords have a static "create" method taking a map. So that works.
10:05	TimMc	A little reflection and there it is.
10:05	yunfan_home	hi i met 403 forbidden error when i try to using lein
10:05	yunfan_home	its the latest version of lein 2.2
10:06	TimMc	yunfan_home: I'm not sure that's been released yet.
10:06	TimMc	You probably downloaded the wrong script.
10:06	yunfan_home	since it download from amazon aws, i doubt if their bandwith limits exceed
10:06	yunfan_home	TimMc: i use the scrip fromo the github repo
10:08	TimMc	yunfan_home: You downloaded it from the master branch?
10:08	TimMc	Use this instead: https://raw.github.com/technomancy/leiningen/stable/bin/lein
10:08	hyPiRion	yunfan_home: What TimMc said, 2.2.0 is not out yet :)
10:09	yunfan_home	hyPiRion: i tried change the script's version number to 2.1 also got 403 forbidden
10:09	yunfan_home	i just heard that the 2.1 script has added a launch parameter which let the boot time faster
10:09	yunfan_home	so want to try that
10:10	TimMc	yunfan_home: Delete the script you have, use the one I linked to.
10:10	bosie	is lein-midje 3.0.0 currently broken?
10:10	bosie	i followed the setup/installation and it throws an error
10:10	yunfan_home	TimMc: ok will try
10:11	yunfan_home	TimMc: aha, it works
10:11	bosie	my project.clj: https://www.refheap.com/paste/13003
10:11	yunfan_home	TimMc: i am trying clojure on my arm chromebook :]
10:13	klang	Am I using clojure in a strange setting, when I have it running on a remote host with an OS different from the computer I'm running Emacs (and nrepl) on?
10:14	TimMc	bosie: It looks weird that you have midje in both deps and plugins.
10:14	TimMc	well... I guess that sort of makes sense
10:14	bosie	TimMc: lein-midje in plugins and midje in deps
10:15	bosie	TimMc: removing midje from deps yields the same exception
10:15	Anderkent	Why are unbound variables logically true? Boggles the mind -.-
10:15	nDuff	Anderkent: because absolutely everything that isn't nil or false is true
10:15	TimMc	Anderkent: Makes sense to me.
10:15	nDuff	Anderkent: it's a very simple rule.
10:15	yunfan_home	i think because they treate 000000000 as false while the rest are true
10:16	yunfan_home	just like forth does
10:16	TimMc	yunfan_home: No.
10:16	TimMc	&(boolean 0)
10:16	lazybot	⇒ true
10:17	yunfan_home	this is very confuse
10:17	yunfan_home	&(boolean [])
10:17	lazybot	⇒ true
10:17	nDuff	yunfan: Not at all. Neither 0 or [] is the constant nil, or the constant false
10:17	gfredericks	[] is neither nil nor false
10:18	nDuff	yunfan: as I said, it's a very simple rule -- easier than having to remember how each different type is handled.
10:18	yunfan_home	nDuff: by confuse i mean this might confuse people from other programmming lang like me from python
10:18	yunfan_home	anyway , the rule is really simple
10:18	gfredericks	hopefully it only confuses them once
10:18	Anderkent	why aren't unbounds nil then? Or why is nil false? It seems very inconsistent to have nil be false but undefined be truthy
10:18	nDuff	yunfan: nod -- Clojure is more predictable than Python in this respect.
10:19	nDuff	Anderkent: Because an unbound var is... an unbound var. Which is not the constant nil, or the constant false.
10:19	jonas11235	bosie: What exception do you get?
10:19	gfredericks	Anderkent: I don't think it's very typical to deal with vars that might be unbound
10:19	Anderkent	nDuff: yes I get the mechanics, what I'm asking is the reason for them
10:19	nDuff	Anderkent: Anyhow, in most use cases, dealing with unbound vars throws an exception
10:19	nDuff	Anderkent: ...and if you want to know if they're bound or not, that's what bound? is for
10:20	bosie	jonas11235: https://www.refheap.com/paste/13002
10:20	Anderkent	gfredericks: in which case why not make them nil by default
10:20	nDuff	Hrm.
10:20	Anderkent	nDuff: except it doesn't if you just do (when my-var :true :false), and it happens to be undefined instead of nil
10:20	nDuff	I was wrong on the first half of that.
10:20	joegallo	nDuff: are the exceptions (boolean ...) => false or true?
10:20	joegallo	jk jk
10:20	gfredericks	it might be a useful distinction
10:20	yunfan_home	i guess an unbound variable is already a symbol?
10:20	gfredericks	e.g., I think you can default read-eval to unbound now?
10:20	jonas11235	bosie: is there any reason to use clojure 1.3.0? The current stable is 1.5.1
10:21	nDuff	yunfan: clojure.lang.Var$Unbound
10:21	bosie	jonas11235: tbh, i just did lein new
10:21	nDuff	Anderkent: Sure. It's enough of a corner case that I don't think it's worth complicating the language for, though.
10:21	gfredericks	Anderkent: there doesn't seem to be a strong argument either way -- like I said 99% of the time you're only dealing with bound vars.
10:21	bosie	jonas11235: changed to 1.5.1
10:21	jonas11235	bosie: paste your test as well, please
10:21	nDuff	Anderkent: If you want different behavior, bind your var to nil by default.
10:22	Anderkent	nDuff: it wouldn't be an issue if it was my var
10:22	yunfan_home	bosie: they say the boot time of lein2.1 with clojure 1.5.x is really fast
10:22	bosie	jonas11235: https://www.refheap.com/paste/13004
10:22	bosie	yunfan_home: i actually still only have lein2 preview
10:22	yunfan_home	cat wait to try but still waiting for download
10:22	bosie	yunfan_home: i guess 'lein upgrade' should get me up to date?
10:22	Anderkent	gfredericks: `declare` is still fairly common, which means you have to consider unbound vars
10:23	yunfan_home	bosie: well i just download the new script
10:23	nDuff	Anderkent: ...anyhow, if you're dealing with something where Unbound is a valid value... (if (and (bound? foo) foo) :true :false)
10:23	nDuff	Anderkent: ...but, well, that _is_ rare.
10:23	bosie	yunfan_home: trying the upgrade
10:24	bosie	jonas11235: any ideas?
10:24	gfredericks	Anderkent: yes but usually declare just resolves circular references between functions, and by the time either function runs both vars are bound
10:24	Anderkent	nDuff: it's actually (bound? (var foo))
10:24	jonas11235	bosie: you don't need the [] in the use clause
10:24	hyPiRion	oh, gfredericks: https://github.com/hyPiRion/hello-swearjure
10:24	bosie	yunfan_home: now on 2.1.1 and clojure 1.5.1
10:24	yunfan_home	bosie: how about the speed?
10:24	bosie	yunfan_home: insane
10:25	bosie	yunfan_home: jk. dont know
10:25	yunfan_home	very fast?
10:25	jonas11235	bosie: the problem is not in the test but in the distance-matrix-to-position.core. Remove it from the use just as a test.
10:25	bosie	jonas11235: it actually works now
10:25	bosie	jonas11235: i didn't change anything on the code but upgrading lein helped
10:25	gfredericks	hyPiRion: oh boy oh boy oh boy
10:25	jonas11235	bosie: I only put [] in the use clause when I will use :only in it
10:26	jonas11235	bosie: nice to know :)
10:26	bosie	yunfan_home: startup time of 'lein midje' and 'lein test' seems about the same
10:26	nDuff	Anderkent: That it's not something I use often enough to remember despite writing production code in Clojure on a regular basis supports my point. :)
10:26	yunfan_home	bosie: i will try that later
10:26	bosie	yunfan_home: but autotest is blazing fast
10:27	gfredericks	hyPiRion: that's crazy-go-nuts; so are you convinced swearjure+ns-map+meta is clojure-complete?
10:27	hyPiRion	gfredericks: Well, I can't uberjar the thing, which is a bit sad
10:28	hyPiRion	I'm trying to figure out why
10:29	hyPiRion	Except for that, it seems pretty clojure-complete
10:29	hyPiRion	In a REPL everything is working
10:32	supersym	sigh... writing this boardgame is a nice challenge, there are too many ways to do stuff in clojure/lisp
10:32	yunfan_home	supersym: also there're too many ways to do stuff, at least web framework, in python
10:33	supersym	oh .. yeah correct
10:33	gfredericks	hyPiRion: holy crap your project.clj is in swearjure
10:33	gfredericks	technomancy needs to see that
10:33	supersym	say... when what would be a reason to have state... I understand the concept, but not in clojure... I'm lost again
10:33	hyPiRion	gfredericks: yeah, that's the best part :D
10:34	supersym	is that only when I want to persist data? whats the circumstances exactly
10:34	hyPiRion	Probably the longest project.clj ever,
10:35	supersym	and when is something 'side-effect free' then
10:35	hyPiRion	I stumbled upon a "Caused by: java.lang.ClassFormatError: Invalid method Code length 69270" when making it, so I had to compress the numbers.
10:35	hyPiRion	Essentially the thing became too large.
10:36	gfredericks	hyPiRion: haha. I tried writing an algorithm for the smallest rep for an int on an airplane, but got sidetracked by not having a number theory library
10:36	gfredericks	so I did `lein new numth` and then quit
10:36	gfredericks	supersym: memoize uses state, to pull a random example out of a hat
10:37	gfredericks	I think most cookie middleware for ring does as well
10:37	supersym	thanks
10:37	hyPiRion	gfredericks: hah
10:38	hyPiRion	Yeah, my algorithm isn't perfect, but it's good enough
10:38	pellis_	i'm trying to compare how much string splitting cost in clojure compared to other languages (including bare java)
10:38	hyPiRion	I'm essentially prime factorizing, and if the number is a prime, I check out if I can represent the number efficiently as (- (inc n) ()) or (+ (dec n) ())
10:39	pellis_	and i'm getting strange results.. probably due to the fact that I can't generate something that does a "for" loop efficiently enough
10:39	gfredericks	hyPiRion: yeah I was going to go for a branch-and-bound variant of that
10:39	pellis_	how can I do 1 million iterations of a piece of code without the iteration block affecting the run?
10:40	gfredericks	pellis_: clojure.string/split just uses the regex function, so it should be the same as java
10:41	pellis_	gfredericks, i'm getting 5 times slowness than Java though - is this all because of the for-loop i'm using (actually a 'loop' construct)
10:41	gfredericks	pellis_: why are you using a loop at all? are you using clojure.string/split?
10:41	hyPiRion	gfredericks: ah, nice. I'll need to clean up stuff and write up on how hello-swearjure works
10:41	gfredericks	hyPiRion: I still don't know if I should expect it to be tractable or not
10:42	hyPiRion	gfredericks: hahah
10:42	pellis_	gfredericks, i will try to paste it
10:42	supersym	aha.. now I get memoize, the tradeoff... sweetness
10:42	hyPiRion	gfredericks: I'll make sure to make it as evident as possible. The blog post, that is.
10:42	pellis_	http://pastie.org/7138264
10:43	gfredericks	hyPiRion: I'm curious if there are good huristics for really big numbers (thousands of digits)
10:43	gfredericks	I guess at worse you can just do something based on its binary rep
10:43	nDuff	pellis_: Any particular reason you're building your own for-loop macro rather than using a doseq range?
10:43	gfredericks	that's a good upper bound for the branch-and-bound alg actually
10:44	hyPiRion	gfredericks: hmm, yeah
10:44	nDuff	pellis_: anyhow, discarding that question -- do you get anything if you compile with warn-on-reflection true?
10:44	pellis_	nDuff, i tried to be as close to the original java code as possible..?
10:45	nDuff	Huh. Actually, in that specific test, it shouldn't have to reflect to figure out that s is a string.
10:45	hyPiRion	I want to do something like what William Byrd did with miniKanren (code generation) and pick the smallest representation after a certain amount of tests
10:45	hyPiRion	runsÆ
10:45	hyPiRion	*
10:45	pellis_	nDuff, no warnings
10:46	nDuff	shrug. Would want to decompile and look at the bytecode.
10:47	pellis_	nDuff, its an ugly code.. but i figured it will be the same so its just a throw-away thing so I didn't really invest much aesthetics into it.
10:47	gfredericks	pellis_: nDuff: might it be the boxed math and such?
10:47	gfredericks	I guess it'd be surprising if that was a lot compared to the string work
10:47	ambrosebs	How do people normally hack on the CLJS compiler? I usually have a pom or project.clj I can boot vimclojure off, so I'm a bit lost..
10:47	pellis_	gfredericks, which math?
10:47	pellis_	inc?
10:47	clojurebot	oinc is octo-inc: (apply comp (take 8 (repeat inc)))
10:48	gfredericks	pellis_: the looping -- < and inc and such
10:48	gfredericks	if you're using primitives in the java version it's probably a bit faster
10:48	pellis_	in the java version is just a traditional C-style forloop
10:48	nDuff	shrug. AOT and decompile and we wouldn't have to guess.
10:48	gfredericks	hyPiRion: I get "No namespace: + found" when running `lein <X>`
10:48	nDuff	s/decompile/disassemble/
10:49	pellis_	i'm getting 600ms in Java, 2200ms in Clojure right now
10:49	pellis_	same thing in node.js: 70ms :)
10:49	gfredericks	pellis_: btw the time macro will do the timing logic for you
10:49	pellis_	and ruby 2900ms.
10:51	hyPiRion	gfredericks: what
10:52	hyPiRion	lein 2.1.1?
10:52	pellis_	i'll try warming up the JVM first
10:52	hyPiRion	Well, I'm running on 1.6.0_27 OpenJDK
10:53	gfredericks	hyPiRion: yep that fixes it
10:53	hyPiRion	woop woop
10:54	pellis_	no change. so how would you run a piece of code X number of times repeatedly?
10:54	pellis_	where X is a very large number
10:54	gfredericks	(dotimes [n 1000] (foo))
10:54	gfredericks	,(let [a (atom 0)] (dotimes [_ 1000] (swap! a inc)) @a)
10:54	clojurebot	1000
10:55	gfredericks	,(time (dotimes [_ 100000] (clojure.string/split "foo and bar" #" ")))
10:55	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 132.878713 msecs"\n
10:58	pellis_	gfredericks, i'll try that one, thanks
10:58	gfredericks	what on earth is LazilyPersistentVector about?
11:06	Chousuke	gfredericks: IIRC it's an optimisation for small vector literals
11:06	Chousuke	gfredericks: it's just an immutable array until you conj into it.
11:09	gfredericks	Chousuke: ah ha
11:14	ToBeReplaced	how do you clean out deftests in clojure-test-mode.el?
11:14	ToBeReplaced	each time i recompile i just add new tests
11:16	mpenet	is there a particular reason why *.cljs file do not load clojure-mode ? (I know clojurescript-mode has been removed, I am trying to understand if it's intentional it doesn't do that now).
11:16	mpenet	nrepl breakage or something?
11:18	tyler	is there a function that will no-op when something is called on it?
11:18	ToBeReplaced	nvm i must have done something wonky before with namespaces... i ns-unmapped then tried to recreate the problem and couldn't
11:18	tyler	or constantly return nil
11:18	mpenet	tyler: (constantly nil)
11:18	pl6306	How do I make a typed array in clojure? For example String[]?
11:19	gfredericks	&(doc make-array)
11:19	lazybot	⇒ "([type len] [type dim & more-dims]); Creates and returns an array of instances of the specified class of the specified dimension(s). Note that a class object is required. Class objects can be obtained by using their imported or fully-qualified name. Class obje... https://www.refheap.com/paste/13007
11:19	tyler	mpenet: thanks
11:19	gfredericks	&(make-array String 12)
11:19	lazybot	⇒ #<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@ee8a8a>
11:19	gfredericks	mpenet: I think clojurescript-mode is a separate package now?
11:20	mpenet	I think it has been deprecated
11:20	nDuff	mpenet: In current emacs live, it _does_ do that: packs/live/clojure-pack/config/clojure-conf.el:(setq auto-mode-alist (append '(("\\.cljs$" . clojure-mode))
11:20	mpenet	I could be wrong
11:20	mpenet	nDuff: yeah I know how to activate it. I was just wondering why
11:21	mpenet	it seems the regex could be tweaked a bit
11:22	pl6306	Why doesn't this work (make-array String "LOADED")
11:23	nDuff	pl6306: because "LOADED" is a sequence of characters, not a sequence of strings
11:24	tyler	woah...
11:24	tyler	,(tree-seq seq? #(str "foo" %) '((1 7) 2 3))
11:24	clojurebot	(((1 7) 2 3) \f \o \o \( ...)
11:24	tyler	it elides it doh
11:24	nDuff	pl6306: Do you want an equivalent to (into-array "LOADED") or (into-array ["LOADED"])?
11:25	pl6306	The second.
11:25	pl6306	Thanks
11:36	nzee	Photos, talks from Clojure/West event collated here. http://eventifier.co/event/ClojureWest
11:38	jcromartie	are talks posted yet?
11:38	jcromartie	oh yeah
11:43	nzee	Photos, talks from Clojure/West event collated here. http://eventifier.co/event/ClojureWest
12:10	dsop	is there anykijnd of "standard" what people use for exception handling? just regular java exceptions with try/catch or some handler base things?
12:10	wink	hyPiRion: oh wow, hello-swearjure is damn impressive
12:10	S11001001	dsop: slingshot
12:10	technomancy	slingshot for catching, ex-info for throwing
12:12	dsop	S11001001: thx
12:14	S11001001	dsop: keep in mind that throwing is a side effect, and side effects and laziness don't mix
12:14	dsop	S11001001: yes sure, i wont throw withing lazy seqs or anything like that
12:15	hyPiRion	wink: Thanks! I'm not sure if the fact that I managed to pull it off shows is a good thing or not though.
12:15	hyPiRion	I mean, it's very revolutionary and stuff, but damn how amazing I am at procrastination.
12:16	hyPiRion	/s/shows//
12:19	wink	hyPiRion: :)
12:19	arrdem	hyPiRion: your swearjure hello world. wat.
12:20	hyPiRion	arrdem: Oh, just wiat
12:20	hyPiRion	*wait
12:21	arrdem	I mean I think I understand what you're doing here... but how did you come up with this abomination?
12:21	sleetdrop	System Memory: Free: 3.45 GB; Used: 4.55 GB; Total: 8.00 GB; — [❙❙❙❙❙❙❙\|❙❙❙❙❙]
12:21	hyPiRion	arrdem: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2011-04-06.html#19:04 <-
12:22	hyPiRion	And yeah, it's not complicated once you grasp what I do the first.. uh, 34 lines or so
12:23	technomancy	once you take enough spice and can grasp the ebb and flow of spacetime through the planes of causality it's pretty straightforward.
12:23	hiredman	also redbull
12:23	technomancy	you know, like monads.
12:23	arrdem	sleep deprivation, stress and coffee is my prefference.
12:23	arrdem	but redbull can cause all three
12:24	arrdem	hyPiRion: I suppose something like this was inevitable given the number of language geeks in here... well done can't wait for more rediculus as this is
12:25	hyPiRion	arrdem: Well, I want to check out if it's possible to create a webserver written in Swearjure.
12:25	arrdem	.........
12:25	hyPiRion	I'm not entirely sure if that's doable though, so I have to figure that one out
12:25	arrdem	I promise you it is.
12:25	arrdem	the question is do you want to write it.
12:26	arrdem	actually I need to understand how you access symbols first. I take that back.
12:26	technomancy	hyPiRion: so you think you can drop back to 1.0.0 and do it with only a single alpha token?
12:27	technomancy	if someone can do it without ns-map that's how you know they truly are the kwisatz haderach
12:27	hyPiRion	technomancy: Yeah, I think I can do it with ns-map only. Though I need to make my own leiningen version for that to make the project map working
12:29	technomancy	swearjure project.clj is going beyond the call of duty =)
12:29	arrdem	ooh yeah
12:29	arrdem	hyPiRion: if you can cook up an anonymus recursive nth this is totally viable with just ns-map
12:30	arrdem	your project.clj then just needs to create all the refers you need
12:30	technomancy	if only you could quote % somehow to let you nest #()
12:30	hyPiRion	arrdem: recursive nth? Why would I need that?
12:31	hyPiRion	I can just do (`[~@(param-here)] (number-here)) do simulate nth
12:31	arrdem	Excuse me while I try to wrap my lesser brain around that one.
12:31	hyPiRion	technomancy: yeah, not having nested function literals is horribly :(
12:31	hyPiRion	arrdem: It's actually not that complicated.
12:32	arrdem	wait... [] is IFn?
12:32	hyPiRion	,(let [alist (list 1 2 3 4)] [`[~@alist] (`[~@alist] 2)))
12:32	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
12:32	hyPiRion	yes
12:32	hyPiRion	,(let [alist (list 1 2 3 4)] [`[~@alist] (`[~@alist] 2))
12:32	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
12:32	arrdem	okat that's dead obvious then.
12:32	arrdem	,([ 1 2 3 4 ] 2)
12:32	clojurebot	3
12:32	hyPiRion	oh bleh, I've lost control of the parentheses now.
12:33	arrdem	yeow that's cute
12:43	dnolen	ejackson: have you seen this http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/fun/?
12:44	nzee	Photos, talks from Clojure/West event collated here. http://eventifier.co/event/ClojureWest
12:44	nDuff	nzee: You've been repasting that for a while this morning.
12:44	nDuff	nzee: ...also, am I just missing something, or is there only a single talk's slides there?
12:44	gfredericks	nDuff: there's a github repo with a lot of slides
12:45	nDuff	...then someone trying to promote a web site with a much smaller set seems awfully spammy to me.
12:46	nzee	I thought it will be relevant to you folks. sorry
12:48	patbrown	I've recently started looking into edn and the extensible reader. Is this a proper use case? Sharing the same edn data between client cljs and server clj, so that each platform can call their own respective internal math functions without extra plumbing?
12:49	patbrown	And can someone point me to an example of extending the reader in clojurescript? Clojurescript Up and Running eludes to it, but doesn't provide an example.
12:59	ToBeReplaced	saw ex-info came up earlier... is there a best-practice established for the map?
13:00	supersym	,'not a literal'
13:00	clojurebot	not
13:00	supersym	,'(not a literal)
13:00	clojurebot	(not a literal)
13:01	azkane	hey guys, is there a built in function that takes a list and a pred, and returns the first true element?
13:01	gtrak	some
13:01	gtrak	~(doc some)
13:01	clojurebot	defmulti doc is (defmulti #^{:doc "docs for foo"} foo class)
13:02	gtrak	&(doc some)
13:02	lazybot	⇒ "([pred coll]); Returns the first logical true value of (pred x) for any x in coll, else nil. One common idiom is to use a set as pred, for example this will return :fred if :fred is in the sequence, otherwise nil: (some #{:fred} coll)"
13:02	azkane	nice, thanks!
13:02	hyPiRion	azkane: if you explicitly want "true", you can do (first (filter fn seq)), otherwise, some will do a similar job
13:02	supersym	hmmm quote is different in repl that instarepl
13:02	gtrak	azkane: implies your predicate ought to return the value
13:02	supersym	make sense I guess
13:02	supersym	*than
13:03	hyPiRion	,(some (constantly :hey) [:what :is :this])
13:03	clojurebot	:hey
13:04	hyPiRion	,(first (filter (comp true? {:a true, :b :foo}) [:b :c :a]))
13:04	clojurebot	:a
13:04	azkane	comp looks neat
13:04	gtrak	hyPiRion: just use boolean
13:05	hyPiRion	not the same thing
13:05	hyPiRion	,(first (filter (comp boolean {:a true, :b :foo}) [:c :b :a]))
13:05	clojurebot	:b
13:06	supersym	<3 clojurebot
13:06	gtrak	I meant (boolean (some ...
13:06	gtrak	if you explicitly want true or false
13:06	hyPiRion	oh, right
13:07	hyPiRion	yeah, it really depends on what you want here
13:10	borkdude	apparently another clojure book has made it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BECVV9C/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00BECVV9C&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwericro-20
13:24	skoodge	ambrosebs: do I have to annotate vars in their own namespace? I tried to use (ann ns/some-var some-type), but it did not seem to work
13:25	tieTYT	http://www.techempower.com/blog/2013/03/26/everything-about-java-8/
13:25	ambrosebs	skoodge: it should work with qualified symbols. Perhaps aliases don't work?
13:26	ambrosebs	skoodge: the core annotations have (ann clojure.core/+ ...)
13:28	skoodge	ambrosebs: ok, I will try it with the fully qualified name then
13:28	skoodge	is there any way to remove a type annotation that is currently active?
13:28	ambrosebs	skoodge: no.
13:28	skoodge	I have already annotated the var in the other namespace and now would like to remove that annotation
13:28	ambrosebs	skoodge: restart your repl :/
13:28	skoodge	so restarting the process it is?
13:28	skoodge	k
13:32	pl6306	What happens when clojure calls a private method on a class? Does it work and if not is there an idiomatic way of doing it via reflection to set it to be accessible first?
13:33	hyPiRion	pl6306: It won't work by default, but you can do reflection through clojure.reflection I think
13:33	shriphani	hi everyone. How do you guys deal with large blocks on text on the repl? On the shell I can pipe to less but I was wondering if there existed something convenient like that for the clojure repl.
13:33	hyPiRion	Or, if you know how to do reflection in Java, you can just use that
13:34	pl6306	I know how to do it java just wondering what it the default
13:35	hyPiRion	default is no private access
13:35	hyPiRion	(nor protected)
13:40	noidi	pl6306, see the source of http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_contrib/clojure.contrib.java-utils/wall-hack-method
13:42	dimovich	hello all, how do I catch Ctrl+C from clojure?
13:43	clgv	dimovich: afaik repl-y does that
13:45	dimovich	clgv: I mean, from the terminal... not from repl
13:45	dimovich	I wanna save some stuff on program exit...
13:45	dimovich	maybe there is some other way...
13:46	clgv	dimovich: yes. repl-y is repl front end which is a program and it catches Ctrl+C
13:47	hyPiRion	dimovich: look at the source of REPLy to look how it does that
13:47	dimovich	aha, ok... got it. Thx
13:50	clgv	dimovich: reply.signals is what you are looking for. usage example for interrupt in reply.eval-modes.nrepl
13:51	mpenet	packt has a couple of clojure "cookbooks" planned it seems
13:51	dimovich	clgv: thx
13:52	jonasen	dnolen: is walk-term really supposed to work like this or am I missing something? https://gist.github.com/jonase/5251620
13:53	pl6306	How does keyword parameters to function work? Say I want to allow for a function call but I don't want for an order of the parameter.
13:53	joegallo	(defn foo [{:as opts}])
13:53	joegallo	opts will be a map, and you can grab things out of it as you'd like
13:54	joegallo	you call it like this
13:54	joegallo	(foo :bar baz :quux eggs :ham meat)
13:54	hyPiRion	joegallo: you forgot the &
13:54	joegallo	heh, oops!
13:54	pl6306	Thanks! Just what I was looking for
13:54	joegallo	(defn foo [& {:as opts}] ...) ;; <-- note the & that i missed
13:55	joegallo	thanks, hyPiRion
13:55	hyPiRion	,(let [f (fn [& {:as opts}] ((juxt :foo :bar) opts))] (f :hello 10 :bar 42 :foo :quux))
13:55	clojurebot	[:quux 42]
13:55	hyPiRion	np
13:56	dnolen	jonasen: huh probably not
13:57	jonasen	is it supposed to do prewalk, postwalk or both?
14:01	thm_prover	in SWT, can the .getText method be caleld outside of the SWT thread, or does it also have to be called within the SWT thread?
14:03	grebus	anyone know of good mocking libraries for clojurescript?
14:03	jonasen	dnolen: also, why is llist a macro? Is that necessary?
14:06	dnolen	jonasen: llist is old, probably for performance - we could provide a function variant as well. I never personally use llist explicitly tho.
14:10	jonasen	dnolen: ok. I think the unifier/prep implementatin could be simplified if walk-term worked "as expected". (Maybe I should say as I expected :)
14:11	jonasen	I guess you don't use clojure.walk since it's not extensible.
14:20	dnolen	jonasen: and I think slower. ticket and patch / w tests welcome for walk-term. We use it a few places so this may or may not require other chagnes.
14:21	jonasen	dnolen: I'll take a look at it then :). what about my earlier question: pre/post/both? It seems to do (mostly) both now
14:22	jonasen	or should I split it like clojure.walk does, i.e. (walk-term inner outer form)
14:22	dnolen	jonasen: note - I don't really care if it works like clojure.walk at all. And certainly any change that slows down it's specific use in core.logic is no go.
14:24	jonasen	dnolen: ok
14:28	pl6306	If I wanted to change the default reflection behavior of clojure to make a method accessible first before invoking it. Is there a simple macro to do that?
14:29	nDuff	pl6306: I'm not sure I follow the question.
14:30	nDuff	Could you provide an example?
14:31	dnolen	jonasen: took a quick look, I believe the issue is how collections implement walk-term
14:33	pl6306	I want to do the equivalent in clojure but more generic an idiomatic. Method getSetMethod = obj.class.getDeclaredMethod("getSet"); getSetMethod.setAccessible(true);
14:34	pl6306	I figure a macro would be a good place to put the logic. However my skills in clojure isn't quite there yet
14:38	nDuff	pl6306: Could you back up a little? What's the larger picture?
14:38	nDuff	Oh. Got it now.
14:39	pl6306	I want to write something that can allow me to invoke a private methond on a class
14:39	pl6306	instance
14:39	nDuff	Yup; took me a moment to grok that.
14:42	mpenet	pl6306: you could use wallhack for that, or flatland/usefull I think
14:42	petrrrr	hey, i got a question what would be the easiest way to combine windows + clojure + lighttable?
14:42	tieTYT	does anyone here use one of the major ides to develop their clojure code? I'm not very happy with Intellij's La Clojure. Do the other ones work better?
14:43	nDuff	Hmm, not finding it. If there's code in flatland, though, that'd be better than something I wrote ages ago and haven't maintained, anyhow.
14:44	pl6306	Thanks looks like wallhack is what I am gunning for
14:44	mpenet	pl6306: https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/flatland/useful/java.clj#L23
14:44	nDuff	tieTYT: http://cemerick.com/2012/08/06/results-of-the-2012-state-of-clojure-survey/
14:44	tieTYT	thanks
14:44	nDuff	tieTYT: Note that Emacs still owns the bulk of the marketshare, by a mile
14:44	hyPiRion	tieTYT: Well, most of Clojure programmers use Emacs. With autocomplete and paredit, I find it more efficient than e.g. Eclipse
14:44	nDuff	tieTYT: ...and, to inject my own opinion, there are very, very good reasons for that.
14:45	mpenet	+1 on emacs, but I hear CCW is nice too
14:45	nDuff	mpenet: I'll take it seriously when its paredit supports slurp and barf, and not a moment before.
14:46	mpenet	nDuff: ah I thought it was a done thing already
14:46	tieTYT	hyPiRion: does the autocomplete work on the java code?
14:46	nDuff	mpenet: I understand there's been rework that should make that easier, but I hadn't heard that it was done.
14:48	hyPiRion	tieTYT: the autocomplete isn't like Eclipse's autocomplete, no. It usually takes names from other (open) clojure files, which for my case is more than good enough
14:48	nDuff	well, it also can take names from an active nREPL session
14:48	mpenet	it takes autocomplete from imports too
14:48	nDuff	which is where the real power is
14:49	nDuff	tieTYT: Are you trying to find a single tool that's best-of-breed for both Java and Clojure?
14:49	nDuff	tieTYT: My experience is that no such thing exists. IDEA for Java, Emacs for Clojure, and never the twain shall meet.
14:50	tieTYT	no just best for clojure
14:50	nDuff	tieTYT: ...then why were you asking about autocomplete for Java code? Did you mean for Java _objects_?
14:50	tieTYT	yes
14:50	tieTYT	i meant interop code
14:50	hyPiRion	nDuff: as in (.toString "...")
14:51	hyPiRion	etc
14:53	tieTYT	yeah
14:53	mpenet	yes it works for method calls too.
14:54	mpenet	you want nrepl + autocomplete + ac-nrepl for that
14:55	tieTYT	i think i'm going to try counter clockwise first
14:55	tieTYT	because learning emacs is its own project
14:55	nDuff	tieTYT: ...if you use Emacs Live, it has all those things you need built in.
14:55	tieTYT	Live? Is that a plugin?
14:56	nDuff	tieTYT: See https://github.com/overtone/emacs-live (or the video at http://vimeo.com/22798433)
14:57	nDuff	tieTYT: anyhow, in my experience, CCW's paredit mode is a pain to use, whereas emacs' paredit is a thing of beauty and truth. YMMV -- the CCW one works fine for plenty of people -- but if you end up not using paredit at all because of it, that's a shame (and your productivity will be the worse for it).
14:57	nDuff	~paredit
14:57	clojurebot	paredit is not for everyone, but what you need to understand ís how to become the kind of person that paredit ís for.
14:59	jcromartie	paredit is the blue pill
14:59	jcromartie	I mean red pill
14:59	tieTYT	what's paredit?
14:59	tieTYT	http://emacswiki.org/emacs/ParEdit ?
15:00	jcromartie	tieTYT: that's it
15:02	tieTYT	ah now that I know what this is
15:02	tieTYT	La Clojure does this
15:02	tieTYT	what's wrong with CCW's?
15:03	jcromartie	I would trust the JetBrains implementation
15:03	nDuff	tieTYT: Doesn't support slurp and barf -- or at least didn't a few months ago when I last looked at it again.
15:04	nDuff	tieTYT: ...if you want to, say, move the next block into a do, the way I'd do that in emacs is to type "(do", followed by ctrl+right-arrow.
15:04	nDuff	tieTYT: and that fixes indentation and everything.
15:05	tieTYT	hm
15:05	tieTYT	ok
15:05	jcromartie	paredit-mode takes the "code is data" idea and applies it to an editor context, so you can rearrange the structure of your code in whole logical instead of characters or arbitrary regions of text
15:06	jcromartie	"whole logical chunks"
15:08	nDuff	nod.
15:08	tieTYT	"SQL, Lisp, and Haskell are the only programming languages that I've seen where one spends more time thinking than typing."- Philip Greenspun
15:16	tieTYT	last night I needed a function that did (and (.contains s x) (.contains s y) ...) I wrote this as a reduce. Is there a better way?
15:19	pl6306	What is clojure equivalent of int.class in java?
15:19	nDuff	pl6306: Integer/TYPE
15:20	pl6306	Thanks!
15:22	tieTYT	weird, i was just reading that article
15:34	grebus	hm
15:37	Glenjamin	late to the party, but i'm getting along fairly well with a poor man's paredit in sublime text
15:37	Glenjamin	it only has strict parens and a command to expand selection to current expression, but combining those with c&p seems quite usable
15:40	tieTYT	ah yes, counterclockwise is way better than la clojure
15:41	amalloy	Glenjamin: you can survive by eating raw meat and sleeping in trees, but civilization is so much nicer; similarly with c/p and paredit
15:41	Glenjamin	i'd love to grok emacs, but couldn't stomach learning clojure and emacs at the same time
15:42	tieTYT	Glenjamin: same boat as me
15:43	Glenjamin	so much muscle memory from other editors to unlearn :(
15:43	grebus	(instance? js/Object (js/Date.)) =>
15:43	grebus	true, but (isa? (type (js/Date.)) js/Object) => false
15:43	grebus	sorry about the double enter there
15:44	MikeSeth	does anyone know if leiningen :repl-port item is something that existed in previous lein versions but was deprecated in favour :repl-options?
15:44	MikeSeth	s/favour/favour of/
15:44	hyPiRion	MikeSeth: Well, it certainly is deprecated now at least
15:44	hyPiRion	If not completely removed
15:44	MikeSeth	hyPiRion: but it was there, correct?
15:45	hyPiRion	MikeSeth: yep
15:45	MikeSeth	I am playing with sublimerepl and it tries to read that key, but that's no longer in use, so I'll have to fix the plugin for it to work
15:45	hyPiRion	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/1.5.1/sample.project.clj#L101 <-
15:46	MikeSeth	thought so
15:48	MikeSeth	sublime2 is awesome btw
15:48	MikeSeth	if not for the occasional hang that one of the plugins here seems to cause in repl
15:56	patchwork	Hmm… looking for a fn like `some` that actually returns the found value
15:56	patchwork	Am I just missing it?
15:56	patchwork	scouring the docs...
15:56	amalloy	(comp first filter)
15:56	Glenjamin	is that lazy?
15:57	patchwork	amalloy: That looks good, but more like (comp first (partial filter predicate?)) yeah?
15:57	amalloy	no?
15:57	clojurebot	no is tufflax: there was a question somewhere in there, the answer
15:57	amalloy	(comp first filter) accepts exactly the same args that some does
15:58	hyPiRion	,((comp first filter) odd? (range 10)) ;; <<- patchwork
15:58	clojurebot	1
15:58	patchwork	Aha, yeah! so do I avoid searching the whole list? I was about to make a loop that just breaks on the first found item
15:58	Glenjamin	(no, it's not lazy)
15:58	patchwork	Ah
15:58	patchwork	Yeah the whole point is to avoid searching the whole list for it
15:58	amalloy	Glenjamin: that is a nonsense claim
15:59	mpenet	,(doc filter)
15:59	clojurebot	"([pred coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of the items in coll for which (pred item) returns true. pred must be free of side-effects."
15:59	patchwork	I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be lazy?
15:59	Glenjamin	ah
15:59	Glenjamin	i made pred have side effects
15:59	Glenjamin	to see if it was lazy
15:59	Glenjamin	>.<
15:59	patchwork	Cool, thanks amalloy!
15:59	Bronsa`	well, it's lazy on chunks of 32 elements
15:59	hyPiRion	Well, if you take the first element, then you have to realize some of them, ait.
16:00	amalloy	Bronsa`: or chunks of 1 element, or chunks of whatever size chunked-seq someone makes
16:00	Glenjamin	eg. ((comp first filter) (fn [a] (prn 1) (= a 2)) [1 2 3 4]) prints 4 1s
16:00	amalloy	Glenjamin: try it with (list 1 2 3 4)
16:00	Bronsa`	amalloy: sure, right
16:00	Glenjamin	oh cool
16:00	Glenjamin	had no idea about chunking
16:02	patchwork	Anyone know of anything like checkmarx for clojure? http://www.checkmarx.com/ Client is being demanding that their checkmarx doesn't work on our codebase
16:02	patchwork	(ppppppphh)
16:03	amalloy	patchwork: i use (constantly true): so far, it has always correctly identified that my software has at least one bug
16:03	patchwork	amalloy: I'll let them know!
16:04	Glenjamin	my approach to security has always been to pay a 3rd party to "audit", and then show the client the certificate.
16:04	Glenjamin	ymmv
16:04	nDuff	patchwork: it's not security-focused, but there's kibit.
16:04	nDuff	patchwork: that said, Glenjamin's approach sounds solid to me.
16:06	Raynes	My approach to security has always been to let xeqi break it and then fix it.
16:06	amalloy	well, you're rock-solid on part 1, Raynes
16:06	Raynes	Heh, I've fixed most of the things he found. :p
16:06	Raynes	http://nelsonmorris.net/2012/09/06/breaking-lazybot-out-of-clojail.html
16:07	technomancy	if [ `rgrep read-string src \| wc -l` != 0 ]; then echo booooogs; fi
16:07	nDuff	...
16:07	nDuff	technomancy: with my #bash hat on, I'm very disappointed.
16:07	ivaraasen	trying to refactor array-utils ATM. macros are hard, damnit
16:07	tieTYT	last night I needed a function that did (and (.contains s x) (.contains s y) ...) I wrote this as a reduce. Is there a better way?
16:08	Raynes	I don't follow.
16:08	Bronsa`	every?
16:08	technomancy	nDuff: I make no claims at being good at bash; I only use it when I'm not allowed to use eshell
16:08	Raynes	Didn't you just write the function just now?
16:08	nDuff	technomancy: rgrep -q read-string src && echo boooogs
16:08	tieTYT	can't tell if anyone's replying to me or not
16:08	Raynes	I am..
16:09	Bronsa`	tieTYT(every #(.contains s %) [x y ..])
16:09	Raynes	And so is Bronsa`.
16:09	tieTYT	ok i'm asking if there's a more idiomatic way I guess
16:09	Raynes	Oh, you wanted to do the contains or arbitrary numbers of things?
16:09	tieTYT	every isn't in the cheatsheet
16:09	tieTYT	Raynes: yes
16:09	Bronsa`	every?
16:09	Bronsa`	derp
16:09	tieTYT	ah
16:10	Raynes	Then I think Bronsa` wins.
16:10	Bronsa`	sorry.
16:10	tieTYT	cool i knew there was a better way
16:10	tieTYT	my way seemed so freaking verbose
16:11	tieTYT	well not compared to java
16:20	Raynes	And the 13000th paste award goes to… https://www.refheap.com/paste/13000 … nobody because they didn't bloody well sign in.
16:21	Raynes	Guys, if you're not using conkeror there is a button in the top right for signing in. It's really easy and you only have to do it once per browser restart and it's one or two clicks to sign in after the initial sign up.
16:21	gfredericks	,(* 2 2 2 5 5 5 13)
16:21	clojurebot	13000
16:21	hyPiRion	gfredericks: oh, me too
16:22	gfredericks	hyPiRion: I have no idea what that means but I assume it's awesome.
16:22	hyPiRion	gfredericks: sec
16:22	jcromartie	gah, I'm making a mess of things, somebody help!
16:22	Raynes	Stay calm and stop making a mess of things.
16:22	gfredericks	add more parens
16:23	Raynes	(inc Raynes)
16:23	lazybot	You can't adjust your own karma.
16:23	Raynes	DENIED.
16:23	patchwork	(inc Raynes)
16:23	lazybot	⇒ 25
16:23	jcromartie	)))))))))
16:23	Raynes	$karma gfredericks
16:23	gfredericks	(inc lazybot)
16:23	lazybot	⇒ 16
16:23	lazybot	gfredericks has karma 16.
16:23	Raynes	I always knew I was better than you.
16:23	gfredericks	you're so square
16:23	jcromartie	shouldn't it be (dosync (alter Rayntes inc))
16:23	Raynes	I'm very circular.
16:23	jcromartie	or just swap!
16:23	jcromartie	but really
16:23	jcromartie	so
16:24	jcromartie	the eternal question: how to organize an application
16:24	Raynes	If there aren't any circular dependencies you're probably not doing too bad.
16:24	jcromartie	I find myself reverting to the "class" design
16:24	jcromartie	I got that much
16:25	jcromartie	but like, a namespace for each "type" in the data model
16:25	gfredericks	Raynes: you're a square and I'm a hypercube
16:25	jcromartie	where the data model is configuration of a news aggregation system
16:25	Raynes	I'm a companion cube.
16:26	gfredericks	half of my conversations degenerate into me making boring observations about natural numbers
16:26	jcromartie	and I'm just running around in circles making refs on hash maps with repository abstractions over certain keys in the map
16:26	hyPiRion	,(* (#(%%%)(+()())) (#(%%%)(#(+()%%)(+()()))) (#(+()(%%(`[~@%&](+))))(+()())(+()()())))
16:26	clojurebot	13000
16:26	jcromartie	and it seems silly
16:26	hyPiRion	there
16:27	hyPiRion	Wow, that's actually quite compact.
16:27	jcromartie	HEY GUYZ HOW DO MAKE THE PERFECT ARCHIRTECTURE
16:27	gfredericks	hyPiRion: hah nice
16:27	gfredericks	jcromartie: queues probably
16:28	jcromartie	like, I'm trying to discover the one hidden secret design that will solve software design problems forever
16:28	jcromartie	but let's be totally practical here
16:28	gfredericks	data? protocols?
16:28	gfredericks	monads?
16:28	clojurebot	monads are "yea, though I should walk in the valley of imperative code, I shall fear no evil, for your monad comforts me" - seen in #haskell
16:28	jcromartie	data is great
16:28	hyPiRion	jcromartie: Oh, you're making the sufficiently smart compiler.
16:28	jcromartie	and my data is really simple
16:29	jcromartie	but let me be concrete here
16:30	gfredericks	,'(*%%%)
16:30	clojurebot	(* % % %)
16:30	gfredericks	hyPiRion: ^^ that's crazy weird
16:30	gfredericks	well maybe just regular weird
16:31	ystael	gfredericks: isn't all of computation essentially boring remarks about natural numbers?
16:31	hyPiRion	gfredericks: yeah, just as weird as ##(#([`{~% ~@%&}](+)) :a 1 :b 2)
16:31	lazybot	⇒ {:a 1, :b 2}
16:31	gfredericks	ystael: I knew there had to be some way to justify my existence
16:31	hyPiRion	There was another one too, but I can't remember which exactly.
16:31	gfredericks	hyPiRion: it hadn't occurred to me to use functions to reduce repetition in numeric literals
16:32	jcromartie	I have a few parts to the configuration: feed sources, content extraction rules, tag extraction rules, tag expansion rules, geographic points, some auxillary simple config parameters
16:32	jcromartie	so I can see this as one structure
16:32	hyPiRion	gfredericks: I've been thinking about it, but I'm not sure how to make a emitter for such functionality yet
16:32	hyPiRion	I did the previous one by hand, for instance
16:33	jcromartie	and the HTML interface is literally the only thing that will use the API to change this configuration
16:34	jcromartie	JSON/XHR, all that jazz
16:34	hyPiRion	But like, the search space shouldn't be that large. Branch-and-bound or genetical algorithms sounds viable for this task.
16:35	hyPiRion	Actually, genetical algos are probably overkill.
16:36	jcromartie	I can make a function that creates Compojure routes from a ref on the state, a key to store the objects in, a function to parse the HTTP parameters into a proper form, a function to sanitize items for output to JSON, and a function to validate a parsed item
16:36	jcromartie	that seems reasonable right
16:37	jcromartie	like (make-json-api state-ref :feeds parse-feed render-feed validate-feed)
16:38	jcromartie	where is a non-trivial Clojure web app source code when you need one
16:40	SegFaultAX	jcromartie: Refheap and 4clojure are open source.
16:40	jcromartie	ah yeah
16:40	gfredericks	hyPiRion: search space is big if you want to check all possible sums for a big number
16:41	gfredericks	so the question is how to avoid that search
16:41	hyPiRion	gfredericks: memoization of smaller numbers and branch-and-bound?
16:41	gfredericks	sounds intractible with a naive B&B
16:42	gfredericks	there are a lot of possible sums of 10^1000; not sure memoization will help there
16:44	hyPiRion	gfredericks: well, if you use prime factorization as a precomputer upper bound, wouldn't that limit it somewhat?
16:44	hyPiRion	*precomputed
16:44	gfredericks	not if you still have to do some minimal thing for all passible partitions, like check against the bound
16:45	gfredericks	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_(number_theory)
16:45	gfredericks	you wouldn't have to check all partitions presumably, but just checking all 2-partitions would be intractable
16:46	hyPiRion	Ah, I see.
16:46	gfredericks	not to mention if you're targeting big-big numbers then factoring is barely an option anyhow
16:47	avishai	hi
16:47	gfredericks	hi
16:47	avishai	i'm using every?
16:47	hyPiRion	If you reorder the numbers based on size and pick the lowest found for e.g. 10000 or so? Sounds like a good heuristic.
16:48	avishai	and i'm wondering why it evaluates every element of the sequence even if one returns false
16:48	hyPiRion	avishai: http://blog.fogus.me/2010/01/22/de-chunkifying-sequences-in-clojure/
16:49	gfredericks	avishai: you mean realizing a lazy seq beyond what's necessary, or actually calling your predicate more than necessary?
16:49	jcromartie	,(every? println [1 2 3])
16:49	clojurebot	1\nfalse
16:50	jcromartie	avishai: I think it's something else that causes your seq to be realized
16:51	jcromartie	,(every? println (repeatedly #(println "generate")))
16:51	clojurebot	generate\nnil\nfalse
16:51	avishai	hmm
16:53	MikeSeth	i updated sublimerepl doc with some hints on setting up a clojure repl
16:53	tieTYT	hyPiRion: jeez, that seems scary
16:53	tieTYT	seems super unpredictable
16:54	MikeSeth	in case anyone wants to take a look before wuub merges it
16:54	tieTYT	i mean it's literally predictable, but it seems hard to reason about if your functions aren't pure
16:54	hyPiRion	tieTYT: Well, it's not intended for impure functions
16:54	hyPiRion	,(every? odd? (map #(do (print \.) %) (range 64)))
16:54	clojurebot	................................false
16:55	hyPiRion	,(every? #(< % 32) (map #(do (print \.) %) (range 64)))
16:55	clojurebot	................................................................false
16:55	tieTYT	in what way is it not intended for that?
16:55	tieTYT	clojure makes it easy to write impure functions
16:56	jcromartie	you shouldn't rely on laziness at a small scale, or even on the realization of a lazy sequence at all
16:56	tieTYT	*in clojure
16:56	jcromartie	i.e. if realizing your sequence too early is a problem, then maybe it's not a good fit for a sequence?
16:56	jcromartie	yea
16:57	tieTYT	just seems slightly limiting to me
16:57	tieTYT	or does lazy-seq work exactly the way I want?
16:58	acagle	/flush
16:58	hyPiRion	tieTYT: Well, I am limiting because it decreases complexity. However, when I want to e.g. read 10 numbers from the terminal, I do use (doall (repeatedly 10 read))
16:59	tieTYT	bbl
16:59	hyPiRion	the doall realizes the whole sequence.
16:59	enquora	yogthos: wrt to clj-pdf, I assume you wanted an html/css style set of layout directives and wrapped iText with those?
16:59	yogthos	enquora: it's not really html/css based
17:00	enquora	perhaps block-based would be a better description
17:00	yogthos	enquora: yeah
17:00	yogthos	enquora: basically you make a tree of elements parent style will propagate to children unless they override it, etc
17:01	enquora	In fact, ConTeXt, the Dutch improvement on LaTeX, takes the same approach to layout description, or at least offers it as an alternative
17:01	yogthos	enquora: it tries to use sane defaults for stuff, and you can specify custom parameters as maps for each element as needed
17:01	enquora	you needed tabular layouts?
17:02	enquora	I'm getting my head around the semantics I need
17:03	pl6306	What is the difference between (repeatedly 7 (println "x")) and (repeatedly 7 #(println "x"))
17:03	amalloy	pl6306: the second one works
17:03	enquora	am going to rewind the clock and take a look at cl-pdf's layout semantics, as well as some work done by Joe Armstrong called erlguten
17:04	pl6306	Why?
17:04	clojurebot	why is the ram gone is <reply>I blame UTF-16. http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/but-why-is-the-ram-gone
17:04	pl6306	Also the function literal will it capture the vars defined in a let form?
17:04	SegFaultAX	pl6306: Read the doc, it explains exactly what repeatedly does.
17:04	Bronsa	pl6306: #(println "x") returns (fn [] (println "x")) while (println "x") prints x and returns nil
17:05	Bronsa	repeatedly being a function, takes a function to be repeated, not a form
17:05	pl6306	if I define a function literal in a body of the let will it be able to form a closure around what is defined in let?
17:07	Bronsa	,(let [x 1] (#(identity x)))
17:07	clojurebot	1
17:08	amalloy	Bronsa: ((let [x 1] #(identity x))) is IMO more convincing
17:09	Bronsa	amalloy: probabily, right
17:18	pl6306	Does repeatedly behave differently in REPL versus code? It being lazy does it mean it doesn't run in side defn body?
17:18	pl6306	What is the best practice of doing n side effects?
17:18	pl6306	(take nscens (repeatedly nscens #(println "repeat"))) overkill?
17:20	TimMc	pl6306: take is lazy as well
17:20	pl6306	That explains why it doesn't work. How can I just make a function body repeat
17:21	pl6306	Can't be that hard?
17:21	TimMc	You just want side-effects, and not the return values?
17:21	pl6306	Yes
17:21	Bronsa	(dotimes [_ times] (println "foo"))
17:21	TimMc	doseq might be useful
17:22	pl6306	Just what I needed
17:22	tyler	is it idem'potent or idempo'tent i hear most people say idem'potent but omnipo'tent is used in that word
17:28	pl6306	Is nested let form inside defn a bad idea?
17:28	amalloy	tyler: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idempotent, why ask us?
17:28	SegFaultAX	pl6306: Not necessarily.
17:29	SegFaultAX	pl6306: But it might be easier to condense them if it's possible.
17:29	tyler	amalloy: i do not belong to the cult of m-w.com
17:29	tyler	heh
17:32	Raynes	$dict idempotent
17:32	lazybot	Raynes: adjective: (computing) Describing an action which, when performed multiple times, has no further effect on its subject after the first time it is performed.
17:33	SegFaultAX	I pronounce it as a single word. Like if you google "define idempotent" and listen to the sound clip.
17:33	Raynes	Too bad you can't play sound in IRC. I'd hook it up to a pronunciation website.
17:33	SegFaultAX	Most people pronounce it like "idem...potent"
17:33	SegFaultAX	Which sounds weird to me.
17:36	matthavener	Raynes: there's always CTCP SOUND :)
17:36	Raynes	lol
17:44	avishai	hi
17:44	avishai	again...
17:44	avishai	why is it that functional solutions to euler problems seems to have longer processing time then procedural solutions?
17:45	avishai	am i doing it wrong?
17:45	avishai	or is this inherent?
17:55	hyPiRion	avishai: Well, that depends on the problem. pre-200 has many algorithm/data structure problems, in which there is a lot of knowledge about efficient procedural solutions
17:55	hyPiRion	after 200, the solutions tend to be easier with either logic programming and/or functional programming
17:56	hyPiRion	Though a procedural program should in about the same order of magnitude
17:56	hyPiRion	should run*
18:00	avishai	10x
18:01	hyPiRion	hm
18:03	hyPiRion	Well, minimal network (107) is just a minimal spanning tree, which both Kruskal and Prim's are like fairly well known, for instance.
18:05	hyPiRion	101 is just polynomial interpolation
18:06	hyPiRion	It's kind of like, they are computer scientist stuff which have been optimized at the point in time where computational power was scarce.
18:14	supersym	`/q
18:41	weavejester	Does anyone happen to know why mapcat might evaluate a lazy seq?
18:41	weavejester	I'm guessing it's not mapcat directly
18:42	weavejester	But the seq it's operating on isn't chunked, according to chunked-seq?
18:43	weavejester	Oh, but it is evaluating it 32 times, so that implies it is chunked somehow.
18:49	weavejester	Ohh, so (chunked-seq? x) is false, but (chunked-seq? (seq x)) is true
18:50	weavejester	So there must be a way of unchunkifying a seq somehow...
18:53	hyPiRion	weavejester: fogus had a solution for 1.1, not sure it still applies though
18:53	amalloy	weavejester: yes, many easy ways
18:54	amalloy	which, now that i've said that, i can't remember at all. maybe (map first (take-while seq (iterate next coll)))?
18:54	weavejester	Hum...
18:54	weavejester	(type x) => clojure.lang.LazySeq
18:54	weavejester	(chunked-seq? x) => false
18:54	weavejester	(chunked-seq? (seq x)) => true
18:55	amalloy	weavejester: any sub-section of a seq can be chunked anyway
18:55	amalloy	interrogating just the head can't tell you all you need to know
18:55	weavejester	I wouldn't have expected the seq function to chunkify a lazy seq.
18:55	amalloy	weavejester: it didn't; that's the wrong way to think about it
18:56	amalloy	consider (lazy-seq (generate-chunked-seq))
18:56	amalloy	obviously that is not chunked, and is a lazy-seq; equally obviously, when you seq it, you get back something chunked
18:56	weavejester	Oh, I see.
18:57	weavejester	seq needs to realize the head, and it might be a chunked seq inside, so to speak.
18:57	amalloy	another unchunking option: ((fn unchunk [coll] (lazy-seq (when (seq coll) (cons (first coll) (unchunk (rest coll)))))) coll)
18:58	weavejester	It seems odd this isn't in the core language, considering that lazy seqs are often used in I/O.
18:58	Raynes	Open a Jira ticket and you might get your wish in a few years.
18:58	weavejester	Heck, Clojure has clojure.core/line-seq
18:59	weavejester	Raynes: That's not a huge incentive :)
18:59	Raynes	Hence why I never make feature requests.
19:00	amalloy	weavejester: what does line-seq matter? it's not chunked
19:00	weavejester	amalloy: I mean it's a lazy I/O seq
19:00	amalloy	so? it's not a chunked seq, so i don't see how it's related to putting unchunk in core
19:00	amalloy	(not that i think it would be a bad idea to do so)
19:01	weavejester	Well, if clojure.core has I/O functions that return lazy seqs, that means it gives implicit approval to use lazy seqs with I/O.
19:02	hiredman	obviously should be using reducers
19:02	weavejester	Reducers aren't lazy as far as I know? Or was that tongue-in-cheek?
19:05	hiredman	reducers return a reducible collection without doing the work until the collection is reduced
19:06	hiredman	https://gist.github.com/hiredman/4075459
19:06	chessguy	'evening ya'all
19:07	hiredman	and reducers can manage resource life time without consumers needing to use with-open
19:09	weavejester	hiredman: Ah right, yep. I think in my case unchunking the seq would be the better choice, however.
19:14	weavejester	Hmmmm… I've unchunked the seq, I think, and it's no longer loading 32 values, but it is loading 4. Why 4?
19:17	amalloy	insufficient information to solve problem
19:18	weavejester	This works:
19:18	weavejester	(first (map #(do (prn %) %) (unchunk (seq [[1 2] [3 4] [5 6]]))))
19:18	weavejester	But this doesn't:
19:18	weavejester	(first (mapcat #(do (prn %) %) (unchunk (seq [[1 2] [3 4] [5 6]]))))
19:19	weavejester	Or rather the first example just evaluates the head, but the second evaluates more.
19:19	weavejester	(first (mapcat #(do (prn %) %) (unchunk (seq [[1] [2] [3] [4] [5]]))))
19:20	weavejester	Curiously mapcat evaluates the first 4 elements
19:20	weavejester	map only evaluates the first 1
19:21	SegFaultAX	weavejester: Isn't part of the contract of mapcat that your mapping function returns a seq?
19:22	weavejester	SegFaultAX: Yes… But I don't get what you're implying.
19:23	amalloy	weavejester: welllllll, [1] is itself a chunked seq, and the (apply concat ...) in mapcat may be trying to keep it chunked for you
19:23	weavejester	Ohhh! I bet it has to do with the definition of concat
19:23	weavejester	Because concat has: ([] [x] [x y] [x y & zs]) as it's arglists
19:24	weavejester	So from it's arglists alone, it needs to read three to know which to dispatch on
19:24	SegFaultAX	weavejester: Good call.
19:24	amalloy	that sounds right
19:24	weavejester	And then the last is probably due to a (seq …), I guess.
19:25	SegFaultAX	weavejester: Out of curiosity, what are you working on?
19:26	weavejester	Basically I have a log of data stored in groups of about 1000 in S3 objects.
19:26	weavejester	So I have a function like: (mapcat read-objects (list-keys bucket))
19:28	weavejester	Under normal circumstances, the result of (list-keys …) is chunked, so it reads 32 in. This means 32 calls to S3, and loading 32000 objects into memory just to get one value.
19:28	weavejester	So I unchunk list-keys like:
19:28	weavejester	(mapcat read-objects (unchunk (list-keys bucket)))
19:28	weavejester	But I'm still reading 4 objects instead of just the 1 when I try to get the first element of the sequence.
19:29	weavejester	And I think that's because of the way concat is written: it must realize a minimum of 4 elements.
19:30	weavejester	So in short, I need to write my own stupid mapcat function :)
19:30	hiredman	for
19:30	amalloy	weavejester: have you tried using 'for? it might have different characteristics
19:31	weavejester	amalloy: Can 'for concatenate?
19:31	amalloy	of course
19:31	weavejester	I should have known :)
19:31	brehaut	weavejester: mapcat is bind in the list monad; for is list monad comprehension notation
19:31	amalloy	&(mapcat identity [[1 2] [3 4]])
19:31	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3 4)
19:31	amalloy	&(for [xs [[1 2] [3 4]], x xs] x)
19:31	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3 4)
19:32	weavejester	Oh, duh, yes of course
19:32	weavejester	I'll blame my current slowness on having had little sleep and having gotten up… 17 hours ago :)
19:32	amalloy	brehaut: i give you permission to pretend his "Oh, duh, yes of course" was in response to you; it's the only time you'll ever get that response from that statement
19:32	brehaut	haha
19:32	brehaut	thanks
19:33	weavejester	brehaut: By list monad comprehension notation, do you mean do notation? It's been a while since I've done Haskell.
19:34	brehaut	weavejester: yes
19:35	brehaut	weavejester: although to confuse things haskell also has list comprehension notation that is specific to the list monad (and doesnt look like do/for)
19:36	weavejester	(first (for [xs (seq [[1] [2] [3] [4] [5]]), x xs] (do (prn x) x)))
19:36	weavejester	And that works, without even needing an unchunk
19:37	amalloy	another lovely reason to do all sequence processing with 'for
19:38	hiredman	for really is the best
19:40	weavejester	I forget how to do the inc thing
19:40	weavejester	inc amalloy
19:40	amalloy	(inc for)
19:40	lazybot	⇒ 1
19:40	weavejester	(inc amalloy)
19:40	lazybot	⇒ 44
19:40	weavejester	Excellent
19:40	hiredman	I have this thing I wrote that is sort of like https://github.com/Prismatic/plumbing, but it does the graph list comprehension style
19:41	hiredman	so if you have {:x .. :y ..} and y depends on x, y is run on each element of x
19:43	geraldo	cl newbie here. im trying my 1st project with clojure, swing eclipse windowbuilder for designing forms clojure for processing. when I was mixing clojure and java in the same package I could use just one project on eclipse
19:44	geraldo	now i followed the lein's wiki advice to separate the sources with java-source-paths. when I generate the project i cant use window builder
19:45	geraldo	is it ok to mix java and clojre on the same package since cl will call java and not the oposite ? Or I need to create a separated project to edit java code ?
19:46	stain	I would normally say no, split it - but you are building GUI in Eclipse which would be interacting with the Clojure code..?
19:47	stain	I guess you should still try to split it.. it might force you to do a clearer model-view-controller split - but that is probably better in the long run
19:47	geraldo	no
19:48	geraldo	eclipse is just to design and generate forms
19:48	geraldo	that ll be consumed by clojure
19:53	tieTYT	is it ok/possible to call some clojure in my java program to process data for me?
19:53	tieTYT	lots of examples of how clojure can call java code, but not the other way around
19:53	tieTYT	let me google
19:54	stain	if you compile the clojure code (which lein will happily do), you will get lots of java classes, one per function I think
19:55	stain	just the .class files.. but that should be enough. You can also implement a traditional java interface in Clojure
19:55	tieTYT	stain: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2181774/calling-clojure-from-java
19:57	stain	tieTYT: mm, the trouble is the typing of the parameters, so you need to do a bit of declarations
19:57	brehaut	clojurebot:from java<reply>http://skillsmatter.com/podcast/scala/impromptu-rich-hickey-lightning-talk
19:57	clojurebot	No entiendo
19:57	brehaut	bah
19:57	brehaut	clojurebot:from java is <reply>http://skillsmatter.com/podcast/scala/impromptu-rich-hickey-lightning-talk
19:57	clojurebot	Roger.
19:57	tieTYT	stain: i don't mind
19:57	brehaut	~from java
19:57	clojurebot	http://skillsmatter.com/podcast/scala/impromptu-rich-hickey-lightning-talk
19:58	tieTYT	heh he looks like a dj
19:59	brehaut	tieTYT, stain: alex ott's answer on that stack overflow is probably more likely to be what you need (its roughly what rhickey presents in that talk), rather than forcing gen-class upon yourself
20:00	tieTYT	and I just get the str from a legit clj file?
21:41	ivan	has anyone implemented meta/with-meta in Python, perhaps with WeakKeyDictionary?
21:42	ivan	oh wait how would that even work, everything is mutable and unhashable
21:44	ivan	heh TypeError: cannot create weak reference to 'tuple' object
22:13	n_b	,(doc ..)
22:13	clojurebot	"([x form] [x form & more]); form => fieldName-symbol or (instanceMethodName-symbol args*) Expands into a member access (.) of the first member on the first argument, followed by the next member on the result, etc. For instance: (.. System (getProperties) (get \"os.name\")) expands to: (. (. System (getProperties)) (get \"os.name\")) but is easier to write, read, and understand."
22:19	bytechunky	the source of 'eval' basically is (defn eval [form] (. clojure.lang.Compiler (eval form))). Why is this not endless recursion?
22:19	gfredericks	you can't spell "transparency" without "paren"
22:20	gfredericks	bytechunky: the . form is special
22:20	gfredericks	bytechunky: it's equivalent to (.eval clojure.lang.Compiler form)
22:20	bytechunky	gfredericks: oh and i always thought that would be (. clojure.lang.Compiler eval form)
22:21	gfredericks	that might be possible too
22:21	gfredericks	clojure isn't necessarily the most idiomatic clojure code
22:21	bytechunky	needs to think about that
22:21	bytechunky	:D
22:22	gfredericks	for two reasons
22:22	Sgeo	help I think something's wrong with me
22:23	Sgeo	I'm starting to not hate Java so much
22:23	gfredericks	Sgeo: more parens
22:23	Sgeo	Or, well, no
22:23	Sgeo	Stockholm syndrome
22:23	gfredericks	Sgeo: have you been right-clicking to refactor things?
22:24	Sgeo	Just to make properties out of fields
22:24	Sgeo	I keep forgetting that this isn't C# where the field name can't share the property name
22:24	Sgeo	Because properties aren't "real" in Java
22:24	hyPiRion	Sgeo: Java is okay for algorithm stuff. Not so much anything else.
22:24	hyPiRion	Well, at least from my point of view.
22:25	gfredericks	bytechunky: A) idiomacy evolves over time; B) some of clojure.core is defined prior to more advanced features
22:25	gfredericks	I expect this case is A
22:25	ivaraasen	hyPiRion: I dunno, man. Swing is pretty sweet if you're into BDSM.
22:26	hyPiRion	BDSM and mental disorders.
22:27	hyPiRion	I got to accept that it's pretty good at that
22:30	corecode	hi
22:30	hyPiRion	corecode: hey there
22:30	corecode	i'm having trouble with nrepl; am i right here or is #emacs better?
22:31	hyPiRion	It's better to be here, yeah
22:35	jack_rabbit	re there any plans to implement CL-style restarts in clojure? Those were one of my favorite features of CL.
22:35	jack_rabbit	Are*
22:39	corecode	for some reason, (nrepl-send-string-sync "(eval '(clojure.repl/doc case))" (nrepl-current-ns)) doesn't return :stdout
22:40	corecode	but if i don't include the namespace, it works.
22:42	gfredericks	,(count (flatten (nth (iterate #(vec (repeat 10 %)) [:x]) 5)))
22:42	clojurebot	100000
22:46	gfredericks	it takes 70 times longer to count ^that sort of structure than a flat (repeat 100000 :x)
22:47	hyPiRion	it's even faster to just return 100000.
23:10	gfredericks	hyPiRion: you're just thinking inside the box
23:11	amalloy	gfredericks: are you sure it takes longer to count, and not just longer to generate lazily while iterating to count?
23:13	amalloy	i guess i don't understand the claim, because obviously the only difference is in generating the sequence, not in counting it once it's generated
23:56	tyler	is there a way to set max ram in leiningen?
23:58	tyler	ah in sample prj file