#clojure – 2012-05-02

2012-05-02

00:02	devn	arohner_: thanks. I'm using (line-seq (io/reader (io/file filename)))
00:02	devn	arohner_: does that look "new" and shiny?
00:03	arohner_	devn: yes, but you should use with-open on that reader
00:03	devn	arohner: ah! right. thanks.
00:04	devn	arohner: (with-open [f (io/file filename)] (line-seq (io/reader f)))), yeah?
00:04	mefesto	(line-seq f)
00:05	mefesto	err...
00:05	mefesto	devn: open the reading in the with-open bindings
00:05	arohner	(with-open [r (io/reader (io/file filename))] (line-seq r))
00:05	mefesto	(with-open [rdr (io/reader (io/file filename))] ...)
00:06	arohner	and you'll want to force that lazy-seq before the with-open closes
00:06	arohner	so doall, or doseq or along those lines
01:07	felideon	if lein deps brings in a lib for my project
01:07	felideon	what's the best way to modify that lib? caan i just edit the code in the jar and recompile?
01:22	felideon	hmm i guess i'm looking for :java-source-path ?
01:32	felideon	meh i have no idea how this works
01:33	raek	felideon: editing the jars is not a good idea
01:34	felideon	raek: yeah, that's what i figure. it's that that's where M-. takes me so it's so tempting
01:34	raek	felideon: do you want to modify the source of a library that you are using? or do you just want to have java source code in your project?
01:34	felideon	raek: the former
01:34	_KY_	What format escape code should I use to printf a clojure term?
01:35	felideon	raek: i.e. i am have a korma dependency, and i want to modify korma
01:36	felideon	s/am//
01:36	raek	felideon: then you need to clone the korma git repo, make the changes, and run lein install in your clone
01:36	felideon	oh ok lein install
01:36	raek	felideon: you can also use the "checkouts" feature of Leiningen
01:36	felideon	and then from my project, I just recompile?
01:37	raek	no, you have to run lein deps and restart your repl
01:37	felideon	wat
01:37	raek	but with checkouts you don't have to run install and deps
01:37	felideon	and what about the :dependencies part of project.clj, that stays the sam?
01:38	raek	yes
01:38	raek	but it's probably wise to change the group name of korma in your own modified version
01:39	felideon	group name?
01:39	felideon	raek: so when is :source-paths used?
01:40	raek	always, but you need to restart your repl for it to work
01:40	raek	felideon: I think checkouts is what you want here
01:40	felideon	raek: yeah looking into tha
01:40	raek	felideon: it is explained here https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen
01:40	raek	(search for "checkouts" on that page)
01:40	felideon	i see what it means by 'install/switch/deps/restart' now
01:41	felideon	raek: yeah thanks
01:41	raek	it will add the correct source path for the korma project to your other project
01:42	felideon	what about if i want to use a newer jdbc driver for postgres? that's a jar, how would I use that?
01:42	raek	the group identifier is the optional part before the slash in a dependency name
01:42	raek	does that version exist in the maven repos?
01:43	raek	using "free floating jars" is discouraged
01:43	raek	it is motivated here https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/wiki/Repeatability
01:45	felideon	oh i see
01:46	felideon	raek: well thank yoiu
01:48	raek	_KY_: to correctly print a clojure form you need to use one of pr, prn, or pr-str
01:48	raek	felideon: np
01:49	raek	_KY_: (printf "a form: %s" (pr-str a-form)) will work, but (do (print "a form: ") (pr a-form)) will be more efficient
01:50	_KY_	I see....
01:50	raek	but this might not be an issue unless the forms are very large
01:50	_KY_	I was just thinking there may be a % something
01:51	raek	that would be convenient I guess, but currently the format string is processed by java
01:52	raek	java.util.Formatter is used as it is
01:54	felideon	raek: so once i add a checkouts folder and symlink, do i still need to do a lein deps again?
01:55	raek	felideon: I don't think so. but you do need to restart your clojure instance
01:56	raek	if you run "lein classpath", the checkout project should be there
01:59	felideon	raek: i see. yes it works now
02:00	felideon	I can M-./hack/C-c C-c and it does teh right thing :)
02:01	raek	don't forget to make a pull request and/or open a issue when you have a fix for korma...
02:02	felideon	yeah was about to open an issue. :)
02:07	felideon	i guess i might as well just pull request
02:11	felideon	hmm should i create a branch for this even if it's one commit?
02:20	felideon	done https://github.com/ibdknox/Korma/pull/59
02:51	anekos	ls
02:55	LuminousMonkey	AccountsSystem Documentation Jobcard dotfiles
02:55	LuminousMonkey	/home/anekos/ $:
02:55	LuminousMonkey	:P
02:56	anekos	LuminousMonkey: Thanks :D
03:21	_ulises	I'm having issues running tests (using clojure.test) in heroku while the tests run (and pass) just fine locally. Is there anything special about the Heroku setup whereby tests would fail with java.io.FileNotFoundException?
03:56	fliebel	What is the core.reduce thing about?
04:08	amalloy	fliebel: i think the idea is to get a version of map and reduce and similar functions that don't use any more intermediate sequences/objects than necessary
04:10	amalloy	eg, (magic-reduce + 0 (magic-map inc (magic-map inc xs))) being equivalent to (loop [acc 0, xs xs] (if-let [[x & xs] (seq xs)] (recur (+ acc (inc (inc x))) xs) acc))
04:30	fliebel	amalloy: hm, interesting.
04:33	devn	hmph -- not sure what changed, but all of a sudden my clojure repl in emacs doesn't open a buffer with the stacktrace of the error with info
04:33	devn	it just prints ";; Evaluation aborted", no temporary buffer
04:33	devn	anyone have any ideas?
04:40	devn	ugh, this feels so ugly...
04:40	devn	(defrecord Node [depth interpreted-type interpreted directive? selector attributes content])
04:41	devn	then a moment later: (let [[a b c d e f g h] (re-find #"complicated-regex"))
04:41	devn	except imagine a-h are those long names above
04:41	devn	anyone have any suggested refactorings?
04:49	tsdh	devn: Wrt. the ";; Evaluation aborted" issue, I've had similar problems with certain errors. The reason was that there was a buggy clj-stacktrace version packaged in leiningen. Not exactly sure, but I think it slurped backtraces containing nested classes like Foo$Bar.
04:49	tsdh	devn: But you should be able to see the backtrace in the swank buffer.
05:00	echo-area	swank-clojure uses Clojure 1.2; how to let it use Clojure 1.4?
05:07	devn	echo-area: dont use swank-clojure unless you are installing it as a lein plugin
05:07	devn	like lein-swank
05:08	echo-area	devn: But I'm using it as a lein plugin
05:08	creese	I have a function that looks like (apply merge (map #(hash-map % (first z8)) (first x8)))
05:09	creese	it works if I only use the first elements of z8 and x8, how can I make it work for all of them?
05:15	kij	creese: (apply merge (map #(hash-map % [:a :b :c]) ["a" "b" "c"]))
05:15	kij	-> {"a" [:a :b :c], "b" [:a :b :c], "c" [:a :b :c]}
05:17	creese	z8 looks like ("one" "two"), x8 looks like ((1 2 3) (4 5 6))
05:17	creese	I want the "one" to go with the (1 2 3) and the "two" to go with the (4 5 6)
05:21	kij	(map #(hash-map %1 %2) '("one" "two") '((1 2 3) (4 5 6)))
05:24	creese	I think I wasn't clear on what I want
05:25	creese	let's the inputs are x8= ((1 2 3) (4 5 6))
05:25	creese	z8= #{"abc" "def"}
05:25	creese	I want the output to be a hash
05:26	creese	{1 "abc" 2 "abc" 3 "abc" 4 "def" 5 "def" 6 "def"}
05:42	wei_	I'm trying to call a Java function with this signature: public void emit(final String event, final Object... args), but (.emit socket "msg" "3232") gives a ClassCastException. what gives?
05:44	tsdh	wei_: Object... is an object array. So you want (.emit socket "msg" (to-array ["3232"]))
05:45	wei_	oh, that works. thanks! got confused since i thought … meant arbitrary arity in Java
05:46	tsdh	wei_: Yes, it means arbitrary arity in Java. But on the bytecode level, it's a method that receives an array as last parameter.
05:48	wei_	the java compiler's transforming the last params into an array, i see
05:59	wei_	creese: (let [a [[1 2 3] [4 5 6]]
05:59	wei_	b ["abc" "def"]]
05:59	wei_	(apply hash-map (flatten (mapcat #(map (fn [k] (list k %2)) %1) a b))))
06:00	wei_	-> {1 "abc", 2 "abc", 3 "abc", 4 "def", 5 "def", 6 "def"}
06:03	creese	what happens if the a is [[1 2 3] [1 5 6]] ?
06:03	creese	does the 2nd "1" clobber the first?
06:04	creese	duplicate key error
06:08	creese	if I have a duplicate key, do I have take these into the hash at different times. I want to store both results, so the vals of the hash are a set
06:49	michaelr525	any way to specify a string with qoutes without escaping them?
06:54	creese	example?
06:54	clojurebot	examples is api examples
07:15	fliebel	michaelr525: Not really. No multiline string syntax like Python or something like that.
07:21	michaelr525	yeah
07:22	michaelr525	what would be a good way to perform multiple operations on a map?
07:22	michaelr525	nm
07:22	antares_	michaelr525: it depends on what operations
07:23	michaelr525	ok
07:23	michaelr525	{:url :a :b :c}
07:23	creese	I have a hash or sets created as a ref with empty sets. I want to fill them.
07:23	michaelr525	i want to url-decode :url and then conj :d :e :f to the map
07:24	creese	set looks like: { a #{ } b #{ } c #{ } }
07:24	fliebel	michaelr525: Have a look at &(doc ->)
07:24	michaelr525	{:url "http://som%et%hing" :a 1 :b 2 } -> {:url "http://something" :a 1 :b 2 :d 3}
07:25	fliebel	&(doc ->)
07:25	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([x] [x form] [x form & more]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the second item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the second item in second form, etc."
07:25	antares_	michaelr525: you can do (-> m (update-in :url (fn [s] …)) (assoc :d :e)), for example
07:25	michaelr525	fliebel: my problem is that assoc does not mutate but rather returns a new map
07:25	michaelr525	ah
07:25	michaelr525	update-in
07:25	creese	(conj (@hash 1) "aaa") allows me to write but not persistently, how do I use (do sync (alter __some stuff with conj___) to get this to work?
07:26	michaelr525	thanks. :)
07:26	antares_	creese: you need to use alter! and merge-with. Here is an example that uses a custom fn + atoms: https://github.com/michaelklishin/validateur/blob/master/src/validateur/validation.clj#L76-98
07:27	wei_	creese: to answer your previous question, (let [a [[1 2 3] [1 5 6]] b ["abc" "def"]] (into {} (mapcat #(map (fn [k] [k %2]) %1) a b)))
07:27	antares_	creese: looks like alter doc example has almost what you need? http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/alter
07:29	creese	antares_: almost, but the extra level of hierarchy introduces enough of a difference that I can't get it to work
07:32	michaelr525	does a function already exist which returns a [key val] pair from a map by the key?
07:32	michaelr525	of course it's not hard to write one but I wonder whether there is already something in clojure.core
07:34	creese	michaelr525, have you looked here? http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
07:34	michaelr525	(select-keys)
07:34	michaelr525	haha
07:34	michaelr525	just what i need
07:35	michaelr525	cheatsheet looks useful too :)
07:36	creese	I have found it to be
07:37	creese	so if I, (conj (@words \b) "aaa"), I can write to the data structure, but changes don't stick
07:38	creese	how can I wrap this inside a dosync( alter … ) ?
07:38	antares_	creese: in clojure, conj produces "copies"
07:38	antares_	creese: that's the whole point of immutable data structures and it makes a whole class of concurrency problems go away
07:41	antares_	creese: https://gist.github.com/747fd0d63e25b2fc1ebf
07:41	antares_	creese: are you sure you need to use refs? unless you coordinate these updates with something else, an atom will do
07:42	creese	I'm not sure which one I need
07:43	antares_	creese: when not sure, start with an atom
07:44	creese	update-in
07:44	creese	thanks
07:45	antares_	creese: here's a similar example with atoms (it could also be done with update-in): https://github.com/michaelklishin/validateur/blob/master/src/validateur/validation.clj#L76
07:45	creese	if I use an atom, alter -> swap! and I remove dosync?
07:49	antares_	creese: right
07:50	creese	why do I want to use atoms instead?
07:53	antares_	creese: because STM has certain limitations and overhead atoms don't have, so if you don't need coordination, why use refs
08:14	jweiss	is it correct that code passed to a macro may or may not have had its macros expanded already?
08:16	jweiss	i guess what i'm asking is, if my macro just removes code that contained another macro call, will that prevent that macro call from ever happening?
08:18	jayunit100	is there a way to abort a filter
08:18	jayunit100	i.e. (filter-until)
08:18	jweiss	jayunit100: yes, use take-while
08:19	jayunit100	ah ok . but take doesn't filter...
08:19	jayunit100	thats fine.
08:19	jweiss	,(take-while even? (filter #(> % 0) [-1 -3 4 -5 6 -3 3 8 9]))
08:20	clojurebot	(4 6)
08:20	jweiss	jayunit100: you're depending on lazy evaluation there.
08:20	jweiss	so it won't go through your whole sequence
08:20	jayunit100	oh ok so it doesnt start the while condition until "true" ...
08:21	jayunit100	i mean, it doesnt start checking to abort until the condition is found to be true.
08:21	jweiss	jayunit100: filter produces a lazy sequence - meaning each item in the result isn't fetched until (take-while ...) asks for it.
08:21	jayunit100	ah nm : you apply the filter first.
08:21	jayunit100	yup
08:22	jweiss	,(take-while #(< % 10) (range 1000000))
08:22	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
08:23	jweiss	,(take-while #(< % 3) (range 1000000))
08:23	clojurebot	(0 1 2)
08:23	jweiss	notice the huge list of a million numbers is never created
08:23	jweiss	,(take-while #(< % 3) (range 100000000))
08:23	clojurebot	(0 1 2)
08:25	jayunit100	yup
08:25	jayunit100	thanx
08:25	jweiss	np
08:38	espeed	In Emacs SLIME, I can C-c, C-c over a print statement and it will display the output in the SLIME REPL. How do you display a functions value in the REPL without using print?
08:49	creese	espeed: just evaluate at the command line, the return value of the function is printed
08:55	espeed	Well C-M-x displays the value in the minibuffer
09:10	Frozenlock	I have a problem with Seesaw... the hyperlink function doesn't behave like expected. In its own example, (hyperlink :text "Click Me" :uri "http://google.com") gives a link with the URI as the clickable text, instead of "Click me". Any workaround?
09:43	wmealing	ok, this might be a too lazy of question, but can i get the output of the command lein midje --lazytest in my emacs window ?
09:43	kaoD	hello :)
09:44	kaoD	is there any way, given a symbol (+, /, *) to "cast" it to a function? using '(+ 1 3) treats + as symbol not as a function
09:49	kaoD	okay "resolve" does the trick
09:57	gfredericks	kaoD: depending on what you're doing, you might need to be aware that resolve is relative to a namespace
09:59	kaoD	gfredericks: nah, it's for 4clojure (a clojure problem collection, in case you don't know) but it caps resolve in the sandbox too so I ended up resolving it to a map {'* * '+ +...}
09:59	kaoD	which is what I wanted to avoid
10:00	kaoD	thanks anyways :)
10:08	cduffy	mefesto: any thoughts on providing a public mechanism to rebind connection and kin with pre-built AMQConnection objects (and similar) rather than requiring a new broker/connection/&c. to be made every time one wants to bring them into scope?
10:12	tomoj	`cljsc '{:optimizations :advanced}' foo.cljs` doesn't seem to work for me
10:12	tomoj	the args passed to transform-cl-args in cljsc.clj are ("{:optimizations" ":advanced}" "foo.cljs")
10:13	tomoj	any clue why? this used to work, I'm sure...
10:14	tomoj	oh
10:14	tomoj	`cljsc foo.cljs '{:optimizations :advanced}'`
10:14	tomoj	d'oh
10:43	michaelr`	devn: you here?
10:58	jweiss	is there any functional difference between (ns blah (:use 'otherthing)) and (ns blah) (use 'otherthing) ? for instance maybe the macro saves some computation or loading if the current namespace gets reloaded? or is it just sugar?
10:59	jweiss	i notice the macro calls with-loading-context, but i'm not sure what that does exactly.
11:13	devn	gah! michaelr` shows up and then he's gone
11:13	devn	blast.
11:13	TimMc	Short-timers.
11:55	dnolen	jonasen: ibdknox: open to your guys thoughts about the CLJS AST based on rhickey's post since you all are consuming that stuff. children -> children keys + whatever extra data is necessary to make it work sounds like it solves a) and b)
12:06	fliebel	dnolen: What post?
12:07	dnolen	fliebel: clojure-dev post
12:08	fliebel	k
12:08	dnolen	thread on fixing on the AST emitted by the CLJS analyzer
12:08	dnolen	fixing the AST
12:08	gfredericks	fliebel: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure-dev/msg/8d62c000aa9ac80b I assume
12:14	melipone	how can I modify the slots of a defstruct object? Forex, I have (def myrect (struct rect :width 5)) and I want to modify the width slot while keeping the same object.
12:15	TimMc	melipone: Does assoc do it?
12:15	TimMc	Oh wait, mutation?
12:16	fliebel	melipone: Not, you can't modify a struct
12:16	melipone	fliebel: I can't? I know I program like Java :(
12:16	fliebel	melipone: What do you want to do?
12:17	TimMc	melipone: And I'm pretty sure structs are deprecated.
12:17	melipone	I just want to modify one slot while keeping the other slots identical
12:17	melipone	TimMc: deprecated? replaced by what?
12:17	S11001001	so assoc and use the new object
12:18	fliebel	melipone: I mean, why do you need to modify the object, instead of continue what you where doing with the new version?
12:18	fliebel	melipone: defrecord
12:18	dnolen	melipone: defstruct is deprecated
12:18	melipone	fliebel: really, defrecord?
12:19	melipone	but defstruct has been there since C ...
12:19	fliebel	melipone: A clojure struct isn;t the same thing I believe.
12:19	S11001001	truth
12:19	gfredericks	melipone: if you don't have a particular reason to use a struct/record, you're probably better off with a map
12:20	fliebel	You can take a java.util variety if you really need the mutation, or stick it in an atom or something, but most likely you think you need to mutate it.
12:22	fliebel	I think of it like this. if I do (+ 2 1) do I change 2, or do I get a new number, 3?
12:22	melipone	ok, ok ...
12:24	technomancy	_ulises: leiningen on heroku runs with LEIN_NO_DEV=y in order to keep tests off the classpath during production
12:25	technomancy	_ulises: there are a few ways to work around that depending on what you're shooting for
12:46	jonasen	dnolen: I still don't see what :children-keys would give us.
12:47	dnolen	jonasen: a way to walk the AST without knowing anything.
12:48	jonasen	The children of an expression can't be described as just a vector of keys
12:48	dnolen	jonasen: yes, we know that. I'm just suggesting that we think about what it should look like.
12:49	jonasen	another approach would be to (merge {:op ...} (delay {:children ...}))
12:50	dnolen	jonasen: that doesn't avoid the problem with the multimethod issue
12:51	jonasen	dnolen: that's probably true
12:52	platzhirsch	I have a checked out a clojure project and just get started, is lein the preferred tool to deal with clojure projects? Currently I just have generated the pom file and work on the maven stack
12:53	mefesto	platzhirsch: lein is preferred
12:53	RickInGA	I am playing around with an example, trying to simulate defmacro... I can build the function but can't assign any meta data https://refheap.com/paste/2505
12:53	TEttinger	platzhirsch, both are usable, maven may be more usable for mixed java/clojure projects, but lein is generally better
12:54	jonasen	dnolen: what about include-children?
12:54	platzhirsch	TEttinger: ideal, good to know
12:57	TEttinger	platzhirsch, lein uses maven internally, so pretty much anything maven can do, clojure can do with a fraction of the configuration
12:57	aphyr	Is there any reason to prefer EPL over apache v2, for clojure projects?
12:57	TEttinger	*lein can do with a fraction
12:58	technomancy	aphyr: apache technically requires annoying license boilerplate in every file
12:58	technomancy	aphyr: also EPL makes users share the modifications they make to the project
12:58	pjstadig	technomancy: huh?
12:58	pjstadig	i don't think v2 does
12:59	technomancy	pjstadig: that was one of the points against it when we were considering how to license mirah
12:59	technomancy	I think we ended up just pretending it didn't say that though.
13:01	pjstadig	well regardless some kind of license notice at the top of every file isn't a bad idea in my mind
13:01	pjstadig	if people want to crib just one file and not the whole project, it lets people know how it's licensed
13:01	ibdknox	Raynes: technomancy: finally updated lein-noir
13:02	pjstadig	but yeah technomancy's second point is the biggest difference, EPL is weak copyleft, so changes to the original project must be shared
13:02	technomancy	yeah, I don't think the boilerplate issue is a big deal since there is probably nothing wrong with ignoring it outright =)
13:03	technomancy	probably nothing, don't trust legal advice you get on IRC, etc.
13:03	aphyr	Naturally.
13:03	aphyr	Company I work for uses apachev2 for all their OSS stuff, but Riemann is already licensed under EPL.
13:03	technomancy	ibdknox: great; thanks. will be nice to be able to specify the shorter invocation for docs and stuff
13:03	muhoo	people have gotten rather lax in recent yearss with license stuff
13:03	aphyr	Trying to figure out if I should relicense it or just keep going.
13:04	technomancy	muhoo: yeah, the number of completely unlicensed projects on github freaks me out
13:04	Miko2	I prefer using BSD as I simply don't care what people do with my code.
13:04	technomancy	Miko2: BSD has no patent protection, so watch out
13:05	technomancy	someone could submit a patch in good faith and if their employer got acquired by a hostile corp your users could be in trouble
13:05	pjstadig	i lean more towards public domain (like creative commons CC0) but there are issues with that, and of course patents are a problem
13:05	technomancy	I'm a big fan of the EPL; I like everything about it except the name =)
13:06	RickInGA	you can pretend the e stands for emacs
13:06	RickInGA	no one will know :)
13:06	Miko2	technomancy: You mean, someone could take my code and create a patent over it and then sue me? :P
13:06	pjstadig	technomancy: yeah, but it requires distribution of changes to the original project
13:07	pjstadig	which isn't a terrible thing, but i'd prefer not to force people to release their code if they don't want to
13:08	aphyr	Yeah, good point. It's probably OK if I don't follow the rules of the apache license re attributing every change in each file, license headers on each file, etc.
13:08	solussd_	I'm trying to add some items to my 'head' section using enlive's "append" transformer. The values are coming from hiccup.page/include-js, but append escapes the angle brackets. Does anyone have any insight into this?
13:08	aphyr	I would prefer to let people make private changes.
13:08	aphyr	Otherwise EPL fits my needs pretty well.
13:09	technomancy	Miko2: they could use a patent that applied to their contribution that you accepted
13:09	pjstadig	I actually like the CDDL better than EPL as a weak copy-left license
13:09	technomancy	RickInGA: haha
13:10	pjstadig	only slightly, though, and only in the way that people can "like" open source licenses
13:10	Miko2	technomancy: Can you really make a patent out of something that is already out there as open source?
13:10	technomancy	pjstadig: what's the difference?
13:10	muhoo	i like open source licenses a LOT better than i like closed licenses
13:10	technomancy	Miko2: it's amazing what you can get away with
13:10	technomancy	amazing/depressing
13:11	Miko2	I think in Finland that's not possible, but may be in USA. :/
13:11	muhoo	but the whole licensing issue often feels like incidental complexity to me
13:11	technomancy	probably true; the USA is particularly insane in that regard
13:11	technomancy	EPL and apache make it so if you submit a patch, you must also grant a license for any patents you own that may be covered by that patch.
13:14	Miko2	And adding that clause to BSD license would probably require an army of lawyers.
13:15	ibdknox	is there a completely open (e.g. BSD) license that has patent protection?
13:15	pjstadig	the CDDL provides a way for you to modify it if you want to, and also gives you the ability to choose a legal venue
13:15	pjstadig	having the ability to evolve the license removes one of the major reasons people tend to have CAs
13:16	dnolen	jonasen: no configurability
13:17	pjstadig	CDDL is also file based which makes it easier for people to use just one file from your project, and also to add a file licensed under a different license to your project
13:17	pjstadig	or something...i don't know IANAL
13:17	felideon	ibdknox: i would appreciate your comments on https://github.com/ibdknox/Korma/pull/59 when you get a chance :)
13:18	Miko2	I hate it there's no way to just contribute something to the world without thinking about legal issues.
13:19	ibdknox	felideon: looks like a good idea to me :)
13:19	felideon	woot
13:19	felideon	:)
13:19	pjstadig	Miko2: yeah i know, that's why i've been leaning more towards public domain or a public domain like license like CC0
13:20	Miko2	And if my code happens to have a dependency to some other open source project, I have to read hundreds of pages of legal jargon that I don't understand. Usually faster to implement your own.
13:21	fdaoud	WTFPL ftw
13:24	Miko2	pjstadig: Doesn't that also have the patent issue?
13:25	pjstadig	Miko2: right, public domain only deals with copyright issues, not patents
13:25	pjstadig	so it's not ideal
13:27	pjstadig	but the reality is that even if an OS license has some kind of patent clause, the software could still infringe on the patents of some third-party
13:27	pjstadig	so if you're going to be worried about it, then you do your homework
13:27	pjstadig	and you'd do the same homework with public domain so maybe it works just as well
13:29	Miko2	I'm not worried, I'm just disappointed that there is such possibility.
13:36	technomancy	ibdknox: apache2 is the closest thing to BSD+patent protection
13:37	technomancy	Leiningen's own dependencies are nearly all licensed EPL or Apache2
13:37	technomancy	lein1 had a few oddballs (including one public domain, so I guess I can't distribute the Leiningen uberjar in Germany)
13:37	technomancy	Miko2: you can avoid lots of issues by just not caring about what those crazy americans do =)
13:38	technomancy	pjstadig: doing your homework re: patents makes you liable for triple damages if you're found to be infringing, so it's not the safest thing to recommend
13:38	felideon	what's the problem with public domain in germany?
13:38	technomancy	felideon: it's not recognized.
13:39	technomancy	IIUC German copyright law is phrased in terms of inalienable "moral rights"
13:39	felideon	an
13:39	felideon	ah*
13:39	Miko2	technomancy: Yeah, I've been following that advice very successfully. :) But of course, if the users could have an issue, then I have an issue.
13:39	technomancy	you can't give them up even voluntarily
13:39	technomancy	there are a few other countries without public domain too
13:40	jonasen	I'm playing with himera which uses cljsbuild. Every time I run lein cljsbuild one it deletes parts of resources/public which is needed by the app. Anyone knows what to about that?
13:53	Miko2	Hmm... Is Clojure clever enough to "cache" functions returned by functions? I have some code that matches strings against a vector of rules. Those rules are given as functions, but I create those functions with another function. So, I guess, what I'm asking is, if I call "create-some-rule" repeatedly, can I improve the performance by (def some-rule (create-some-rule)) and referring that instead?
13:54	TimMc	No sneaky automatic caching, no.
13:54	technomancy	Miko2: function classes are created at compile time, so there shouldn't be any overhead in something like that unless you're using eval
13:54	dnolen	jonasen: that seems really weird
13:55	S11001001	Miko2: you can't compare two functions
13:55	jonasen	dnolen: it doesn't happen the first time I run it. But if I change the cljs source it does
13:56	TimMc	Haha, we just answered 3 completely different aspects of miko's question.
13:56	TimMc	I wonder which one is relevant? :-P
13:57	technomancy	,(let [f-maker (fn [] #(apply + %&))] (identical? (f-maker) (f-maker)))
13:57	clojurebot	false
13:58	TimMc	Miko2: memoize may be of interest to you.
13:58	technomancy	,(let [f-maker (fn [] #(apply + %&))] (= (class (f-maker)) (class (f-maker)))) ; is what I meant
13:58	clojurebot	true
13:58	S11001001	I'm just saying that it's algorithmically impossible for function combinators to cache generically. You can cache based on function identity, and possibly function-class identity and captured binding equality, or even expression equality, but not in general. memoize will get you the former
13:58	Miko2	Okay, so...
13:58	TimMc	S11001001: I'm guessing intensional identity is sufficient here.
13:58	technomancy	Miko2: creating a new function object is just instantiating a pre-existing class, which is super cheap
13:59	Miko2	Well, that answers the question. :)
14:01	Miko2	I'm actually happy that it doesn't have impact, as it'd be quite tedious to "def" everything beforehand.
14:01	technomancy	yes, it's very important for functions to be cheap when doing functional programming =)
14:03	Miko2	Yeah, I was just guessing that calling a function that creates functions about 50 * 20000 times is costly. :)
14:04	mdeboard	pff, that's only a million
14:05	pjstadig	re: public domain, if you're going to go that way I think it's best to use something like CC0 or Unlicense that acts like a permissive license in countries without public domain
14:06	Miko2	I guess the biggest slowdown in my implementation isn't the algorithm, but the startup cost and reading of input.
14:07	cduffy	mefesto: I'm trying to use wabbitmq from an agent without needing to generate a whole new connection for each message. Does https://gist.github.com/279a5192f1305a898c2f look sane, or can you suggest something better?
14:09	Miko2	Plus printing the output.
14:13	Borkdude	I'm trying to make an example why auto-gensym is necessary. So I found this On Lisp example: http://www.bookshelf.jp/texi/onlisp/onlisp_10.html
14:14	Borkdude	and I'm wondering: is there anything in Clojure that looks like Common Lisp's do?
14:15	Borkdude	any other example of variable capture is also good
14:17	S11001001	Borkdude: sure: (let [&env 42] (defmacro forty-two [] &env)) (forty-two)
14:17	S11001001	,(do (let [&env 42] (defmacro forty-two [] &env)) (forty-two))
14:17	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
14:17	S11001001	heh
14:17	S11001001	anyway try that
14:22	gfredericks	Borkdude: I'd think you could contrive an example easily; e.g., rewrite with-out-str to use generic local names like foo and bar instead of autogensym
14:23	Borkdude	gfredericks: ok, good suggestion
14:23	TimMc	"it"
14:24	TimMc	(my-with-out-str (println "hello") (count it))
14:24	Borkdude	gfredericks: hmm, it has no auto-gensyms
14:25	Borkdude	gfredericks: with-out I mean
14:25	Borkdude	gfredericks: what is with-out-str.. never heard of it
14:25	gfredericks	a macro
14:25	Borkdude	gfredericks: with-open I mean
14:25	TimMc	&(count (with-out-str (println "hi")))
14:25	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! pop-thread-bindings is bad!
14:26	TimMc	,(count (with-out-str (println "hi")))
14:26	clojurebot	3
14:26	Borkdude	gfredericks: ah great
14:26	gfredericks	it does use a gensym also
14:26	mefesto	nDuff: ping
14:26	Borkdude	gfredericks: I see, yes
14:26	nDuff	mefesto: pong
14:27	mefesto	nDuff: just glanced at your gist. i'm wondering if a bound-fn might be a better fit?
14:27	mefesto	,(doc bound-fn)
14:27	clojurebot	"([& fntail]); Returns a function defined by the given fntail, which will install the same bindings in effect as in the thread at the time bound-fn was called. This may be used to define a helper function which runs on a different thread, but needs the same bindings in place."
14:28	mefesto	not sure tho, i haven't personally tried this
14:28	nDuff	mefesto: oooh, nice; that _does_ make much sense.
14:28	nDuff	(will need to think about how it'll work with reconnecting on error conditions, though)
14:30	gfredericks	fntail is an odd arg-name there
14:37	Borkdude	this is a quite simple example: http://cljbin.com/paste/4fa17c6de4b08bad0592745d
15:31	daniel	,(clojure.contrib.math/ceil (/ 63 4))
15:31	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.math>
15:31	gfredericks	~contrib
15:31	clojurebot	Monolithic clojure.contrib has been split up in favor of smaller, actually-maintained libs. Transition notes here: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
15:31	AimHere	contib is out of date
15:31	daniel	thought so, but i cant find where this has moved
15:32	AimHere	Java floating point Math/ceil is still there
15:32	gfredericks	$findfn 63/4 16
15:32	lazybot	[clojure.core/unchecked-inc-int]
15:32	AimHere	I don't know if that's the same as the function you're after
15:33	daniel	seems to give the desired result
15:33	daniel	$findfc 63/2 32
15:33	daniel	$findfn 63/2 32
15:33	lazybot	[clojure.core/unchecked-inc-int]
15:33	daniel	cheers
15:34	amalloy	wait what the hell. that's not the ceil function, guys
15:35	gfredericks	lol; I was hoping nobody got that impression
15:35	gfredericks	I'm still not sure why that works
15:35	amalloy	because it casts to int and then adds one
15:35	gfredericks	what happens when you cast a ratio to int?
15:35	amalloy	it rounds down
15:36	amalloy	so it works fine for every number that isn't an integer
15:36	amalloy	but for integers it adds one
15:36	TimMc	&(map unchecked-inc-int [3 3.5])
15:36	lazybot	⇒ (4 4)
15:36	gfredericks	are we using "cast" loosely and not in the sense of (Foo)bar?
15:36	amalloy	yes
15:36	TimMc	.intValue, perhaps
15:36	gfredericks	and "unchecked" means it lets you overflow
15:37	gfredericks	now I understand everything!
15:37	amalloy	&(instance? Number 1/2)
15:37	lazybot	⇒ true
15:38	amalloy	i guess i never thought about that, TimMc. of course ratios are numbers
15:39	gfredericks	now I understand even more than that!
15:41	TimMc	amalloy: It is implemented in Java as x + y, where x and y are ints.
15:41	TimMc	So I guess java handles the "casting".
15:41	TimMc	*the JVM
15:42	amalloy	no, clojure has to do it somewhere, probably in the reflection code for finding the right java method from the clojure function
15:43	daniel	what function will map (range 0 7) -> 1 (range 8 15) -> 2 (range 16 23) -> 3
15:43	daniel	my IQ is not high enough to work this out right now
15:43	amalloy	ie, i'm pretty sure you can't call bar(x) with a Ratio if it expects an int (or an Integer), so clojure must be making it an int first
15:44	S11001001	daniel: head map floordiv 8
15:44	S11001001	+1
15:44	TimMc	amalloy: Hmm, you're right -- Java doesn't allow 5 + new BigInteger("6")
15:45	TimMc	oh, and of course you're right about the method's params
15:46	daniel	S11001001: i guess i have to implement head and floordiv?
15:47	daniel	i don't want it to literally map the range to the result, i want any input from within the range to give me the result
15:47	S11001001	head is first, floordiv is floor /
15:48	daniel	right, i thought head might be first
15:48	daniel	but i dont want to map the range, i mean to take any input from the range
15:48	S11001001	right, that's what first is for
15:48	daniel	first takes the first number in the range doesnt it?
15:48	S11001001	yep
15:48	daniel	,(first (range 0 7))
15:48	S11001001	so it works both ways
15:48	clojurebot	0
15:49	daniel	but what if i dont have a range, but i want to map 5 -> 1
15:49	daniel	oh i see
15:50	emezeske	daniel: It sounds like you just want the quotient...?
15:50	jonasen	dnolen: I added a :children-keys colummn to the document
15:51	emezeske	&[(quot 3 8) (quot 11 8) (quot 20 8)]
15:51	lazybot	⇒ [0 1 2]
15:51	daniel	,(map #(floor (/ % 8) (range 0 7)))
15:51	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: floor in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
15:51	daniel	emezeske: yes!
15:51	jonasen	emezeske: Have you tried himera with cljsbuild?
15:51	dnolen	jonasen: have you followed the latest bits of the thread? sounds like just moving those key-values into :children might be cleaner and nicer.
15:52	jonasen	dnolen: I have followed the thread. I'm not fast enough to reply to all the ideas :D
15:52	emezeske	jonasen: You mean as a compiler backend?
15:53	jonasen	dnolen: no, just running 'lein cljsbuild once' on it
15:53	jonasen	sorry emezeske: ^
15:53	emezeske	jonasen: ^_^
15:54	jonasen	emezeske: I deletes some of the files in resources/public which are needed by the app for me
15:54	emezeske	jonasen: Oh? That is not good. Let me glance at the source real quick
15:55	jonasen	emezeske: It happens after some .cljs files are edited
15:55	emezeske	jonasen: Hmm, I see that :output-dir is set to resources/public
15:55	emezeske	jonasen: cljsbuild deletes the :output-dir before compiling
15:56	jonasen	emezeske: ok. there are a few files there that should not be deleted
15:57	emezeske	jonasen: Would it be possible to set the :output-dir to something else? Maybe resources/public/js or something?
15:57	jonasen	emezeske: probably. I'll take a look. Thanks!
15:58	emezeske	jonasen: NP. I probably should make the "delete first" behavior optional at some point. It's the default right now, though, because it makes the builds more solid, especially in the case that the compiler crashed or something and left output files in a weird state.
15:58	robermann	hello, could anyone help me in understanding why [~@ks] returns the map values? See http://pastebin.com/KQUJDi1x
16:00	robermann	that example is from "Clojure Programming" book, page 252
16:01	metellus	robermann: it's "unquote splicing" http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/unquote-splicing
16:01	daniel	i've forgotten how to go from (range 0 100) -> (10, 20, 30, 40, 50 ... 100)
16:01	metellus	but I don't know enough to tell you more than that
16:01	gfredericks	robermann: you're asking why it's the values instead of the keys?
16:01	hiredman	,(doc range)
16:01	clojurebot	"([] [end] [start end] [start end step]); Returns a lazy seq of nums from start (inclusive) to end (exclusive), by step, where start defaults to 0, step to 1, and end to infinity."
16:01	daniel	ooh it has step
16:02	daniel	great, thanks
16:03	robermann	gfredericks: yes, I woud expect the keys
16:03	robermann	would
16:04	gfredericks	robermann: because the keys are being emitted unquoted, they get eval'd to the values
16:04	gfredericks	robermann: note the '~ks is quoted but [~@ks] is not
16:05	gfredericks	(defmacro whatisthis [arg] `['~arg ~arg]) (whatisthis (+ 1 1))
16:08	robermann	In general I can understand that ({:a "a" :b "b"} :a) => "a" , but why in the macro if keys are unquoted I get their values? The first paramater is not the whole map, but just its keys
16:09	N8Dawg	Hello room
16:10	daniel	this is producing a lazyseq: https://gist.github.com/2579844 I want it to act on the same board for each iteration of for
16:10	daniel	board is a 64 bit long and this function needs to return a 64 bit long
16:11	gfredericks	robermann: this has more to do with macros than it does maps
16:11	gfredericks	in particular the &env parameter
16:12	AimHere	daniel > for returns a sequence of the evaluated things in the body
16:12	AimHere	rewriting that with 'reduce' might be what you want
16:12	N8Dawg	I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction, I had a question around form analysis for macros
16:13	austinh	~anyone
16:13	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
16:13	daniel	AimHere: yeah, i can (reduce bit-or #())
16:13	daniel	thanks
16:14	gfredericks	robermann: a key in the &env map represents a local name. When you emit it from the macro, it's just like using it in code. So the call to (spy-env) in your code gets expanded to (prn '(y x) [y x])
16:14	gfredericks	so it prints (y x) [2 1]
16:14	N8Dawg	I writing a lazy-let macro, which performs lazy evaluation of the bindings, i need to rewrite terms, but symbols may be shadowed / redefined
16:15	N8Dawg	so I can't just do a clojure.walk/replace is there any library to help do a lexically scoped replace on a form?
16:15	robermann	gfredericks: ah I see now: it is evaluating a local, instead of doing a map lookup! Thank you :)
16:16	gfredericks	robermann: yep that's it
16:16	amalloy	N8Dawg: symbol-macrolet
16:16	amalloy	see https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/useful/utils.clj#L201 for example
16:17	N8Dawg	amalloy: awesome thanks!
16:19	dnolen	mmarczyk: thx for fixing the ICounted bug. I'd like to remove extend-type default for IReduce and IIndexed as well.
16:20	N8Dawg	amalloy: amazing, the answer in seconds, and the function i wanted! woot for the Clojure community
16:20	mmarczyk	dnolen: hi! np
16:21	mmarczyk	dnolen: yeah, IReduce and IIndexed make no sense at all for default
16:22	mmarczyk	dnolen: especially IIndexed -- that totally breaks the promise of constant time lookup
16:24	dnolen	mmarczyk: I think it's there for expedience (since we don't have inheritance), but easy enough to remove (I've successfully done so in a branch after many strange resulting bugs & teeth gnashing).
16:25	beffbernard	There must be a cleaner way to do this - https://refheap.com/paste/2512
16:25	beffbernard	I'm pass in a sorted list of keywords that are the map and return a sort list of values from that map
16:25	beffbernard	that are in the map and return a sorted list of values from that map*
16:26	mmarczyk	dnolen: yeah, though in both cases we can basically assume the argument is either IReduce / IIndexed or ISeqable
16:28	raek	beffbernard: (defn sort-with-order [order item] (map val (sort-by (comp (zipmap order (range)) key) item))
16:29	mmarczyk	dnolen: I'm curious about the strange bugs though -- and I'm sure happy you've gone through the gnashing of teeth :-)
16:29	mmarczyk	dnolen: will you be merging that branch then?
16:33	beffbernard	raek: fancy.. seems like there would be a function that did this: (zipmap order (range)) ?
16:34	dspiteself	Would anyone be able to suggest a way to retain the power of Datomic and while adding an authorization layer. I was playing around with the idea of adding access control list facts and use macros to convert a query and a user and by adding proper expressions and unifications to ensure authorization. Is this a pipe dream i have and has played with similar security concepts?
16:36	ibdknox	dspiteself: you're probably better off asking in #datomic
16:36	devn	Anyone know what fogus used to generate this video? chouser, do you know? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTETlppW-u4
16:36	dakrone	devn: gource
16:36	dspiteself	ok sorry
16:37	devn	dakrone: awesome! thanks.
16:37	ibdknox	dspiteself: nothing to be sorry about, just think you might have a better chance of getting an answer :)
16:37	dspiteself	and when i ask it there maybe i can spit proper English out;-)
16:37	devn	dakrone: i just submitted an issue on clojuredocs -- maybe you know where the link is, but on the api.clojuredocs.org page the link to clojuredocs-client is incorrect (it's still pointing at cd-client pre-rename)
16:37	technomancy	gource is lots of fun
16:37	devn	dakrone: do you know where to change it?
16:37	dakrone	devn: yes, I'll fix it
16:38	devn	dakrone: where is it out of curiosity? I couldn't find it.
16:39	dakrone	devn: https://github.com/dakrone/cd-wsapi/blob/master/resources/index.html
16:40	mmarczyk	dnolen: just fixed the reify warning -- http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-233
16:43	robermann	dakrone: I was just looking on it this morning, the last version is https://github.com/dakrone/cd-client or https://github.com/Raynes/cd-client ?
16:43	mmarczyk	dnolen: actually wait, I think I missed something
16:43	mmarczyk	dnolen: will comment on the ticket once I'm sure it works.
16:48	dakrone	robermann: neither, https://github.com/dakrone/clojuredocs-client
16:52	robermann	dakrone: BTW I noted that doing a (browse-to symbol) goes to the 1.2 version of it ?
16:53	dakrone	robermann: yea, there's a problem with the URLs that I need to fix
16:53	robermann	I worked around it with this hook: http://pastebin.com/jnHkgjrt
16:54	robermann	(maybe dirty, but I was just studying these hook questions)
16:56	robermann	In general why for browse-to do you use examples-api and not search-api?
16:58	dakrone	it needs some love and updating, I haven't touched it for quite a while, so I don't recall exactly
17:01	jonaskoelker	Hi all. Suppose I have an quoted expr in my toy language, say '(+ (d 6) (d 6) (d 6))---and I want to write that syntax in some-namespace, and I want eval on that to call some-other-namespace/d. What's the best way to do that?
17:02	jonaskoelker	And is that even the right way to do things? I'm very new to clojure... My best guess would be to either (use) or (require), the one which is similar to "from pkg import *" in python
17:03	jonaskoelker	that feels dirty and ghetto, however
17:04	sattvik	jonaskoelker: Well, the closest thing to "from pkg import *" is (use), though a blanket (use 'some.ns) seems to be discouraged these days.
17:05	mmarczyk	dnolen: posted a correct patch @ CLJS-233 (I think) -- after gnashing my teeth a bit and dealing with some strange bugs :-)
17:05	sattvik	I think with Clojure 1.4 you can now just get a few named symbols from a namespace. The alternative is to use (require) which ensures they are available.
17:06	jonaskoelker	I'm on clojure 1.3 ...
17:06	sattvik	OK, well, let's just say you used the namespace. What you probably want to syntax quote rather than quote.
17:06	sattvik	That is: `(+ (d 6) ...)
17:07	jonaskoelker	that _sounds_ right, though I have no context for which to evaluate it
17:07	dnolen	mmarczyk: I don't think that will work with advanced compilation right?
17:07	jonaskoelker	what's the semantic diff?
17:07	mmarczyk	sattvik: get a few named symbols? how do you mean?
17:07	sattvik	The reader will namespace-qualify the symbols.
17:07	sattvik	mmarczyk: Well, specific vars.
17:07	mmarczyk	dnolen: oh. I think you're right
17:08	jonaskoelker	so if I'm in namespace foo, `(+ (d 6)) will become (+ (foo/d 6))?
17:08	mmarczyk	dnolen: wasn't my first approach, just the first one which (1) gets rid of the warning, (2) doesn't break unscientific tests at the REPL, (3) doesn't break core_test
17:08	mmarczyk	dnolen: back to the drawing board then :-P
17:08	sattvik	jonaskoelker: So '(+ d) turns into just (quote (+ d)), but `(+ d) becomes something like (clojure.core/+ some.ns/d)
17:08	sattvik	yes.
17:08	mmarczyk	sattvik: as in (use '[foo.core :only [...]]) ?
17:09	mmarczyk	sattvik: or alias after require
17:09	jonaskoelker	sattvik: ... it sounds like it'll become (clojure.core/+ test/d) when I want (clojure.core/+ mylib/d) ?
17:10	jonaskoelker	when I write `(+ d) in my test namespace
17:10	dnolen	mmarczyk: yeah it won't break it'll just never cache the type.
17:10	sattvik	mmarczyk: I think so. Oh, I think I remember what was different in 1.4, it wasn't use that got something new, but require? Something like require with refer?
17:10	mmarczyk	sattvik: the new thing is (:require [foo.core :refer [...]]), but that's a step towards deprecating the still-available and for some reason much-despised use
17:11	mmarczyk	sattvik: cache the type...?
17:11	mmarczyk	dnolen, I mean, and I got it now :-P
17:11	dnolen	mmarczyk: sorry for caching the definition of the constructor.
17:11	mmarczyk	yeah
17:11	mmarczyk	got mixed up re: which conversation this was part of
17:12	sattvik	jonaskoelker: That's a little more difficult. You can, of course, namespace qualify a symbol and just do something like '(+ mylib/d), but I don't know off-hand how that will work when evaluated.
17:12	mmarczyk	and yeah, that's a problem -- I'll find another approach
17:13	jonaskoelker	sattvik: I guess I'll just import everything---can namespaces set export controls? Then whatever lump of code that needs short names can dirty itself
17:14	jonaskoelker	I could presumably re-namespace the symbols, but that feels hacky and brittle
17:14	sattvik	jonaskoelker: Well, namespaces can make vars private, which just means they are not visible by default, rather than inaccessible.
17:15	jonaskoelker	so there's a gentleman's agreement but no contract? :)
17:15	brehaut	some people like to create an internal NS that contains the stuff you dont want people importing
17:16	jonaskoelker	and evilly rename it from release to release? :->
17:16	brehaut	haha
17:16	brehaut	i think anyone importing from foo.internal deserves the pain they get
17:17	jonaskoelker	that's what she said!
17:17	sattvik	jonaskoelker: Well, it isn't straightforward to get to a private var, but it's not impossible
17:18	jonaskoelker	introflection and all that jazz?
17:18	sattvik	So, I wouldn't count on it for security.
17:18	brehaut	,clojure.core/sig
17:18	jonaskoelker	sure
17:18	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such var: clojure.core/sig, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
17:18	brehaut	,#'clojure.core/sig
17:18	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve var: clojure.core/sig in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
17:18	brehaut	bah
17:19	brehaut	,#'clojure.core/sigs
17:19	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/sigs
17:19	jonaskoelker	a more mundane problem, I'm doing (:use clojure.contrib.combinatorics) after upgrading clj 1.0->1.3 and contrib 1.0.0 to 1.1.0 and it no worky. Whys?
17:19	brehaut	~contrib
17:19	clojurebot	Monolithic clojure.contrib has been split up in favor of smaller, actually-maintained libs. Transition notes here: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
17:20	jonaskoelker	Oh look, a manual! :)
17:20	technomancy	manual is kind of a strong term
17:20	brehaut	its more like a divining rod
17:21	brehaut	not to diminish the work seancorfield has done
17:25	mmarczyk	dnolen: posted a new patch -- hopefully this one will work -- what do you think?
17:26	dnolen	mmarczyk: yep, looks ok.
17:26	mmarczyk	dnolen: whew. :-)
17:26	jonaskoelker	bah, anybody care to help me not have to beat my head against the wall?
17:26	mmarczyk	a hairier ball than I originally suspected
17:27	dnolen	mmarczyk: at some point we're going to have to sort out this namespace / locals masking issue - but that's another series of tickets.
17:27	mmarczyk	dnolen: I was actually thinking about this the other day
17:27	jonaskoelker	mylib @ http://paste.debian.net/167049/ --- tests @ http://paste.debian.net/167050/ --- ./roll.clj compile error @ http://paste.debian.net/167051/
17:28	mmarczyk	dnolen: I've got some design notes
17:28	dnolen	mmarczyk: rewriting local names that are known to be nses?
17:28	mmarczyk	dnolen: could tidy them up a bit and post them to ggroup / Confluence (assuming I've got the perms)
17:28	mmarczyk	dnolen: yeah, plus interop story around that
17:29	dnolen	mmarczyk: is it big enough of an issue for Confluence? :) I'd just add those notes to the existing ticket.
17:29	dnolen	mmarczyk: unless it is a bigger issue.
17:29	mmarczyk	dnolen: not really, but it's bound to complicate calling into cljs from js a (very little) bit
17:29	mmarczyk	dnolen: which I'm not really worried about :-)
17:30	mmarczyk	dnolen: I missed the existing ticket though, if there is one surely it's the best place for this :-)
17:30	sattvik	jonaskoelker: How are you running your program?
17:30	jonaskoelker	"./roll.clj"
17:31	jonaskoelker	with envvar CLASSPATH=/usr/share/java/clojure1.3.jar:/usr/share/java/clojure.jar:/usr/share/java/clojure-contrib.jar:.
17:31	dnolen	mmarczyk: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-180
17:31	mmarczyk	dnolen: thanks! will post a comment there in a little while
17:31	jonaskoelker	btw, 'sattvik', is that norwegian? It sounds that way to my (danish) ear...
17:32	mmarczyk	dnolen: ah, btw -- so do you have a patch for 232? could have a go at writing one in the spirit of the ICounted patch unless you're planning to do it today
17:33	dnolen	mmarczyk: it mixed in with some other stuff, so I don't have a patch handy.
17:34	sattvik	jonaskoelker: Well, I'm not what the problem is. It seems like it can't find the combinatorics class... It's hard to tell if the path is being set up properly within the program.
17:34	sattvik	jonaskoelker: Oh, it's Sanskrit.
17:34	mmarczyk	dnolen: well, I'll look into how much of a hairball would result from just wiring in a satisfies? check and a linear traversal helper
17:35	jonaskoelker	oh ok; in my brain it kinda' pattern-matches against boddhiSATTVa, FWIW
17:35	dnolen	marchdown: minor thing - for your patches mind adding the ticket # in the commit message?
17:35	jonaskoelker	sattvik: path is being set up properly <-- me no gets?
17:35	jonaskoelker	i.e. System/getProperty "java.class.path" ?
17:35	sattvik	jonaskoelker: Yes.
17:35	mmarczyk	in an hour or so, probably, since I suddenly came over all peckish -- need to take care of that now
17:38	sattvik	jonaskoelker: You could try adding a line to print out that property right before your ns declaration in roll.clj, that would at least help eliminate that possibility.
17:39	jonaskoelker	sattvik: /usr/share/java/clojure-1.3.jar:/usr/share/java/clojure.jar:/usr/share/java/clojure-contrib.jar:.
17:40	jonaskoelker	but I have clojure-contrib 1.1.0, in which combinatorics is still in clojure/contrib/
17:40	jonaskoelker	^_^
17:40	sattvik	jonaskoelker: Ah, that may be the problem.
17:40	mmarczyk	dnolen: oh, did you mean me about the ticket # ? sure, could add that
17:40	dnolen	mmarczyk: yeah
17:40	mmarczyk	ok, will do
17:41	jonaskoelker	... debian only has clojure-contrib 1.2 ?! (:must :use :newer :technology)
17:42	AimHere	There's no later version of clojure.contrib
17:42	sattvik	Well, you could try to continue using the old contrib (which may or may not work), but you'll have to use the old namespace.
17:42	sattvik	An alternative is to use something like Leiningen, which can help you manage your dependencies.
17:42	mmarczyk	bbl.
17:43	jonaskoelker	it may in particular not work: java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: clojure.lang.RestFn.<init>(I)V
17:43	amalloy	jonaskoelker: debian is great for OS components, but for keeping on top of developments in a programming language it's an awful choice
17:43	amalloy	just install lein and let it do all the work you're trying to do by hand
17:44	jonaskoelker	amalloy: I'll try and store that, so that when I'm finally tired of doing stuff by hand I'll remember what you said :)
17:44	amalloy	that's the spirit!
17:46	raek	jasonbray: the "RestFn" error is known to happen when you are trying to run code ahead-of-time compiled for one clojure version on another clojure version
17:46	raek	sorry
17:46	raek	jonaskoelker: ^
17:46	jonaskoelker	raek: hm?!
17:46	jonaskoelker	is it also known _why_?
17:47	raek	AOT compiled code is no guaranteed to be compatible between clojure versions
17:47	jonaskoelker	sure, but why specifically RestFn(I)V?
17:47	raek	most libraries don't need to be AOT compiled, but a few parts of contrib did
17:47	amalloy	that just happens to be the first incompatibility it finds
17:48	jonaskoelker	fair 'nuff
17:48	amalloy	raek: i thought contrib was just AOT compiled for performance/size
17:48	raek	condition and error-kit needed it, afaik
17:49	raek	since they provide new classes that have to be available statically
17:50	jonaskoelker	anyone care to help me de-boilerplate my code in a way that could earn the Good Clojurekeeping Seal of Approval? ;-)
17:51	jonaskoelker	I want to write a static analysis for my language, 'stats', which outputs the probability distribution described by a dice roll formula, e.g. "d2 + d2" -- or '(+ (d 2) (d 2)) -- should output {2 1/4, 3 1/2, 4 1/4}
17:52	jonaskoelker	I have a _lot_ of functions (addition is a good example) where I just want to apply the function to the keys in some other maps, multiply the probabilities, and add that into a new map (roughly speaking)
17:53	jonaskoelker	I have a lot of "} else if (function == 10) { do function 10;"-ish code going over all the functions; I was thinking about putting them in a set, but what do I put? Symbols, functions, ...?
17:53	jonaskoelker	strings?!
17:54	madsy	Humble question. What is the most straight-forward way to use OpenGL with Seesaw? Would I need to make my own OpenGL-enabled frame from scratch by using Swing and jOGL?
18:22	gfredericks	jonaskoelker: depending on where the code is coming from, you might make a map from symbols to functions
18:22	gfredericks	{'+ (fn [a b] ... add a and b somehow ...), '- (fn [a b] subtract...), ...}
18:23	jonaskoelker	gfredericks: I'm writing all of it. That sounds like a fair idea
18:26	gfredericks	jonaskoelker: and if a lot of the functions do the same kinds of things, a higher-order-function can probably help DRY it up
18:26	jonaskoelker	in C terms, how do I make a variable static to a function? e.g. what I mean by (let [fun-data 0] (defn foo [] (increment fun-data)))
18:26	jonaskoelker	DRY = don't repeat yourself?
18:26	gfredericks	yeah
18:26	jonaskoelker	i.e. express `for' in terms of `while' -style xforms?
18:27	gfredericks	I'm not exactly sure what you're asking wrt making a variable "static to a function". If I had to guess what that meant, it'd be something like your (let ... (defn ...))
18:28	brehaut	you probably dont want to do this but
18:28	brehaut	,(let [c (atom 3)] (while (< 0 @c) (prn (swap! c dec))))
18:28	clojurebot	2
18:28	clojurebot	1
18:28	clojurebot	0
18:28	technomancy	jonaskoelker: functional languages don't let your change the value of locals
18:29	jonaskoelker	technomancy: the impure ones do :) [and anyways the change wasn't the point, the visibility was, but yeah, my example was bad]
18:29	gfredericks	technomancy: sounds more like unfunctional languages then amirite
18:29	technomancy	sorite
18:29	jonaskoelker	I think you mean `dysfunctional languages' ;-)
18:29	technomancy	"static" is such a nonsense word in Java
18:29	madsy	jonaskoelker: What exactly do you want to do?
18:30	jonaskoelker	gfredericks idea works for me
18:30	gfredericks	I think (let [...] (defn ...)) is good idiomatic stuff
18:30	jonaskoelker	I must have typoed it when I did it the first time around
18:30	madsy	If you just need a for-loop there are better ways.
18:30	gfredericks	brehaut: crickey I didn't even know we had while
18:30	jonaskoelker	nah, I just want to make a big data structure visible to only one function, but not computed on every invocation
18:31	brehaut	gfredericks: thats the correct response ;)
18:31	brehaut	gfredericks: ive used it once ever, and thats for a logging loop in an IRC bot
18:31	madsy	jonaskoelker: Then use a closure
18:31	gfredericks	brehaut: I probably could have used it a few times when I did a (loop [] ...)
18:31	brehaut	hah yes
18:32	jonaskoelker	madsy: how'd that look?
18:33	brehaut	gfredericks: https://github.com/brehaut/burningbot/blob/master/src/burningbot/logging.clj#L105-109
18:33	madsy	,((fn[x] #(fn[] x)))
18:33	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: sandbox$eval53$fn>
18:33	madsy	,((fn[x] #(fn[] x)) 1)
18:33	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval85$fn__86$fn__87 sandbox$eval85$fn__86$fn__87@1556157>
18:33	jonaskoelker	madsy: would gfredericks (let ... (defn ...)) be another way of essentially the same?
18:34	madsy	Yes, sure.
18:34	gfredericks	depends on if your data structure is constant and hard-coded or if you want to make them on the fly
18:34	gfredericks	brehaut: this "burningbot" is some kind of terrorist I assume?
18:34	madsy	Wow.. I screwed up my example pretty bad there.
18:35	brehaut	gfredericks: ircbot for the burning wheel RPG channel
18:35	amalloy	technomancy: "static" is worse in C :P
18:35	jonaskoelker	gfredericks: basically, it's a sym-fn map, {'+ +, '- -, 'pow pow, ...}
18:35	gfredericks	brehaut: this must be one of those "video james" I've been hearing about
18:36	jonaskoelker	static is teh win in C ;)
18:36	ejackson	folks, is it to be expected that AOT breaks map->R ?
18:36	hiredman	1d6+5
18:36	clojurebot	11
18:36	jonaskoelker	^_^
18:36	amalloy	jonaskoelker: it means three or four completely unrelated things depending on context
18:36	gfredericks	hiredman and clojurebot have a very strange relationship
18:36	jonaskoelker	three
18:36	brehaut	gfredericks: tabletop
18:36	jonaskoelker	1d6+5
18:36	clojurebot	8
18:36	jonaskoelker	wth...
18:37	gfredericks	1d6+8
18:37	clojurebot	9
18:37	brehaut	hiredman: is clojurebots dice just NdSides + mod?
18:37	jonaskoelker	6*3d6
18:37	jonaskoelker	3d6
18:37	clojurebot	6
18:37	hiredman	yes
18:37	jonaskoelker	6#3d6
18:37	jonaskoelker	blah
18:38	jonaskoelker	amalloy: at least I count three: static functions, static globals and static locals
18:40	ejackson	check out a minimal example: https://github.com/ejackson/aotquestion/blob/master/src/aots/death.clj#L9
18:40	ejackson	the other file, core.clj is not AOT'd and the class of map->R is what you'd expect.
18:41	ejackson	but death.clj is AOT'd, and map->R barfs.
18:41	ejackson	while (merge (R. ...) {...}) behaves as expected.
18:47	ejackson	no takers ? Cowards :D
19:11	gfredericks	you could analyze irc logs to identify the most egregious conversation killers
19:22	wmealing	I'm usually an instigator.
19:23	gfredericks	"Instagator: for when you can't find a gator fast enough!"
19:24	wmealing	when you absolutely need a reptile.
19:24	wmealing	right now.
19:24	gfredericks	if only you could make money merely for having killer original business ideas
19:27	technomancy	why is it the javax.servlet/servlet-api jar is distributed without a license?
19:27	technomancy	does the javax package name somehow imply it shares a license with the JDK?
19:31	wmealing	careful, oracle may be listening.
19:31	SurlyFrog	Hi all, is there a way I can specify the Clojure version that Leiningen should be using? I've got clojure 1.4.0 downloaded and can start it directly, but using `lein repl` causes it to use version 1.2.1.
19:32	wmealing	you mean for the project or for lein itself ?
19:33	SurlyFrog	um…both I guess.
19:33	SurlyFrog	(i'm just getting started with this)
19:33	wmealing	dont worry about modifying lein, it'll work as is,
19:33	wmealing	but you can add :dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure "1.3.0"]]
19:33	wmealing	to your projects.clj
19:34	wmealing	i can paste my entire project.clj for reference if you wish
19:34	SurlyFrog	I guess what I'm wondering is how does lein know which clojure to load?
19:35	wmealing	it reads it from project.clj
19:35	sritchie	do any of you guys use leiningen 2 with intellij?
19:35	SurlyFrog	in the event that you don't start with a project, but just use `lein repl` or, simply fire up Swank...
19:36	wmealing	lein looks up itself in its script
19:36	wmealing	the lein executable should just be text
19:36	wmealing	CLOJURE_JAR in this example
19:36	wmealing	SurlyFrog, is there a specific need for a version ?
19:36	xeqi	SurlyFrog: lein 1.x uses clojure 1.2.1 for itself
19:37	SurlyFrog	um, not necessarily, well, not that I know of yet. I'm just getting started and just trying to make sure I understand how things are pulled together. I'll do a bit more reading.
19:37	SurlyFrog	:-)
19:38	wmealing	ok
19:42	Roxxi	Is there a clojure idiom similar to the scheme receive-values syntax? Or a clear cut mechanism to return a set of values that are bound individually explicitly without processing a list (e.g. (receive (x1 x2 x3) (values 10 20 30) body ...))
19:45	gfredericks	Roxxi: is that like destructuring?
19:46	gfredericks	&(let [nums (range 3), [x y z] nums] (+ x y z))
19:46	lazybot	⇒ 3
19:47	Roxxi	Hmm
19:47	Roxxi	yeah
19:49	Roxxi	Yeah, that works great! Thanks gfredericks
19:56	mrakan	I cannot seem to find a function to compute n^x (n to the power of x). What is its name? Thanks.
19:57	wmealing	Going to take a punt and say its Math/Pow
19:57	wmealing	i'm not a java programmer though
19:57	mrakan	Ah, I had assumed it was a part of clojure.core. Okay, thanks.
19:57	wmealing	it may be,
19:58	LuminousMonkey	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/1.4.2/docs/api/java/lang/Math.html
19:58	sritchie	&(Math/pow 10)
19:58	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method: pow
19:58	wmealing	there is
19:58	wmealing	http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/generic.math-functions-api.html#clojure.contrib.generic.math-functions/pow
19:58	lazybot	Nooooo, that's so out of date! Please see instead http://clojure.github.com/clojure-contrib/generic.math-functions-api.html#clojure.contrib.generic.math-functions/pow and try to stop linking to rich's repo.
19:58	LuminousMonkey	Ha!
19:58	wmealing	mrakan, there is a native. one apparntly
19:58	wmealing	(pow x y)
19:59	mrakan	Ah, great! Thanks!
19:59	sritchie	&(Math/exp 10)
19:59	lazybot	⇒ 22026.465794806718
19:59	sritchie	whoops :)
19:59	metellus	,(pow 2 3)
19:59	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: pow in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
19:59	sritchie	oh, of course
19:59	sritchie	&(Math/pow 10 2)
19:59	lazybot	⇒ 100.0
20:00	wmealing	,(clojure.contrib.generic.math-functions/pow 2 2)
20:00	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.generic.math-functions>
20:00	LuminousMonkey	Looks like it's just a wrapper for Math/pow anyway.
20:00	wmealing	yeah, probably is
20:00	brehaut	technomancy: lein-licenses is a great idea
20:00	LuminousMonkey	The source uses a defmathfn-2 macro
20:00	technomancy	brehaut: thanks!
20:01	wmealing	whats that do monkey ?
20:01	brehaut	technomancy: i see amalloy needs to pick up his game and license useful though ;)
20:01	technomancy	brehaut: I remember spending a few hours tracking that down manually at my last job, but I figured now it could be automated with pomegranate
20:01	technomancy	brehaut: oh yeah absolutely =)
20:01	ivan	&((fn [n x] (eval (cons '* (repeat x n)))) 10 2)
20:01	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! eval is bad!
20:01	brehaut	technomancy: oh man. doing it manual? thats got to be death
20:02	technomancy	it sucked =\
20:03	wmealing	mrakan, http://clojure.github.com/algo.generic/clojure.algo.generic.math-functions-api.html#clojure.algo.generic.math-functions/pow is the more recent way to do it.
20:03	LuminousMonkey	wmealing: I'm not entirely too sure, macros are still a bit magical to me.
20:04	wmealing	i'm slowly beginning to understand them..
20:07	LuminousMonkey	&(symbol "java.lang.Math" "pow")
20:07	lazybot	⇒ java.lang.Math/pow
20:07	LuminousMonkey	Nifty.
20:14	mrakan	Is there a way I can simply install all of the clojure.contrib libraries?
20:17	gfredericks	mrakan: I don't think so
20:17	gfredericks	clojure and its libraries aren't usually "installed"
20:18	mrakan	I can automatically download what I need with Leiningen, perhaps? I add the library name into the dependencies in the project file? (Yes, I'm new. :))
20:18	ivan	yes
20:18	mrakan	Great, thanks.
20:21	LuminousMonkey	[org.clojure.contrib/standalone "1.3"] or similar?
20:24	wmealing	i have a long running process and want to deal with plugins that can be downloaded/added at runtime
20:24	wmealing	is there an existing project that does something similar ?
20:31	xeqi	~contrib
20:31	clojurebot	Monolithic clojure.contrib has been split up in favor of smaller, actually-maintained libs. Transition notes here: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
20:31	jroes	so we've got compojure and we have ring and we have noir
20:32	jroes	so I get that ring is like rack / wsgi
20:32	jroes	what are compojure and noir equivalent to?
20:32	brehaut	compojure is the routing layer
20:32	weavejester	jroes: Kinda equivalent to Sinatra
20:32	brehaut	i believe its roughly comparable to sinatra in design?
20:32	jroes	gotcha
20:32	brehaut	noir is kind of like icing ontop of compojure
20:32	gfredericks	it's like sinatra
20:32	jroes	are there any other frameworks of note?
20:33	jroes	(web)
20:33	gfredericks	less frameworks more libraries
20:33	weavejester	brehaut: Noir's more like Sinatra I think. Compojure's perhaps a little lower level since it doesn't have the helpers that Sinatra and Noir do.
20:33	brehaut	weavejester: ah thanks
20:33	muhoo	oh gawd, i never want to deal with a framework again
20:33	brehaut	jroes: there are some older frameworks that try to be more rails like, but they arent noteworthy
20:33	jroes	gfredericks: gotcha, if it's not idiomatic to do something like Rails in Clojure, that's understandable
20:33	brehaut	muhoo: seconded
20:34	weavejester	A lot of things in Rails tend to be counter to Clojure's philosophy, I think.
20:34	gfredericks	I think you more pick-and-choose the features you want via middleware
20:34	brehaut	likewise django things
20:35	gfredericks	likewise TI-BASIC things
20:35	jroes	I see. that philosophy seems a bit closer to node's as well
20:35	brehaut	due to the design of compojure (and moustache, an parallel library) middlewares are much more versatile than in other systems
20:35	jroes	(not that anyone here wants to be associated with the node community ;))
20:35	brehaut	well, the design of ring and compojure
20:36	weavejester	I'd say it's more Clojure itself that makes middleware so simple to use. In Ruby middleware is similar, but because it's all objects and there's no immutable data structures it doesn't work as well.
20:36	weavejester	Rack's design works better in Clojure than Ruby, IMO :)
20:36	brehaut	lol
20:36	weavejester	Or maybe it's that HTTP is more suited to Clojure
20:36	brehaut	everytime i write a django middleware i get really furious
20:36	jroes	well geez, weavejester over seems to be the original author of most of the web-related libraries, haha :)
20:37	brehaut	half of
20:37	brehaut	if you go by original author, but most of if you go by major contributor ;)
20:38	weavejester	A few. There's also Mark McGranaghan and Chris Granger who do a lot of stuff of note
20:40	jroes	so how about a lot of the typical things you need in a web app - authentication, authorization. is sandbar still the standard (doesn't have very many recent commits)?
20:40	gfredericks	isn't that what cemerick's friend does?
20:41	weavejester	jroes: Chas Emerick recently released Friend, which is maybe a more idiomatic approach to auth
20:41	brehaut	i dont think sandbar was ever a standard. it is/was popular though
20:41	jroes	gotcha, I'll check that out
20:41	gfredericks	sandbar good for regular session/flash stuff
20:41	weavejester	There are parts about Friend I'm uncertain about, but I can't think of any better way of doing them :)
20:42	brehaut	yes, cemerick was brave taking on that particular beast
20:43	weavejester	brehaut: Definitely! One need only look at all the Java auth frameworks to see how badly it can be messed up :)
20:44	brehaut	haha yes
20:45	brehaut	one thing i like about the clojure web ecosystem is how the highly decoupled nature of things has let stuff like this develop gradually and with less baked in mistakes
20:45	gfredericks	is core.logic/logic-programming-in-general appropriate for searching a very large search space with heuristics?
20:45	brehaut	yes??
20:45	lazybot	brehaut: Definitely not.
20:45	mdeboard	brehaut: What ever could you mean? Django is an enlightened web framework that perfectly encap-- I just wet myself.
20:46	brehaut	mdeboard: django was great in 2005
20:46	gfredericks	I wasn't sure if it was perhaps only for situations where you can afford exhaustive dumb searches
20:46	brehaut	i am of the opinion that it has rusted
20:46	emezeske	I'm a huge fan of the decoupled nature of clojure web libraries, but I must admit it does make it a bit difficult to get started
20:47	brehaut	moar docs!
20:47	emezeske	Yeah, I think more full-featured example projects would be really beneficial
20:47	weavejester	Decoupling does make it trivial to factor out components into separate services, which I especially like.
20:47	mdeboard	I'm of the opinion that it is a kitchen-sink approach that is great when you are starting a project and want to get it up & iterate quickly. After that phase though it's time to move on to something else. The entire Django ecosystem spawns these huge, tightly coupled apps that try to do everything and wind up falling apart at a certain level of complexity.
20:48	weavejester	But I agree it's currently hard to get started.
20:48	brehaut	noir is a great aid here
20:48	weavejester	Noir makes it a lot easier
20:48	brehaut	it hits a bit of a sweet spot of enough stuff together to get started, without being overbearing
20:48	LuminousMonkey	mdeboard: That's what I found with Rails, it was great when I first started my project, but when I progressed onto needing to do things differently, it became harder to do.
20:49	brehaut	ive been promising ibdknox that i'd write a follow up to my ring post about noir, but i have yet to write anything that is better than his existing docs
20:49	ibdknox	I have some thoughts on doing all of this better
20:49	ibdknox	this being web programming in Clojure
20:49	brehaut	i also think i sold compojure a little short in my ring article and that needs to be addressed
20:49	ibdknox	I'm not happy yet
20:50	weavejester	The only thing I don't really like about Noir is the way routes are set globally. But admittedly it does make it easier to get started.
20:50	ibdknox	weavejester: yeah it has advantages and disadvantages
20:50	brehaut	thats what i dont like about noir either ;) it solves a non-problem for me. i like centralised route config
20:50	brehaut	(though i can understand why you might not)
20:51	ibdknox	well recently I've been of the opinion that I shouldn't have to write routes at all
20:51	brehaut	really‽
20:51	hiredman	routing via namespaces?
20:51	ibdknox	nope
20:52	jroes	the interesting thing for me is that as a Rails dev by day, whenever I found that I was doing something that went against "The Rails Way" I questioned whether my approach was correct in the first place. many times I found that I could solve the problem in another way that played nicer with the framework and made my life easier
20:52	ibdknox	urls have become artifacts for the most part
20:52	weavejester	I'm kinda of the opinion that you should be able to break up a web site into services as easily as you can split up a namespace.
20:52	ibdknox	they no longer correctly map to the functionality of the things we build
20:52	mrakan	Leiningen successfuly downloaded org.clojure/algo.generic for me, but I can seem to require it in my projects. The compiler complains it cannot find it in the classpath. (:require [clojure.algo.generic.math-functions :as math]) What am I doing wrong?
20:52	mrakan	*can't
20:52	ibdknox	we're not building hyperlinked pages anymore
20:52	mdeboard	who's we? :P
20:52	mdeboard	The royal we
20:52	hiredman	ibdknox: interesting
20:53	ibdknox	Lift has some neat ideas
20:53	ibdknox	Meteor has some more
20:53	weavejester	ibdknox: I'm still a hyperlink fan, even if it's only for web services.
20:53	ibdknox	but I don't think either of those have it quite yet either
20:53	mdeboard	We definitely utilize links & URLs to a great extent
20:53	ibdknox	weavejester: well to be fair, I'm not saying get rid of it, but that our work shouldn't centralize around it
20:54	ibdknox	mdeboard: shoot where the pucks going to be ;)
20:54	LuminousMonkey	jroes: Sure, but I also have a problem with ORM which is very much the Rails way? Recently I've been thinking that more logic should be moved into the database than what Rails does.
20:54	mdeboard	in my particular domain at work, the puck is dollars and they want SEO :P
20:54	weavejester	ibdknox: My thought is that the idea of identity and state in clojure ties very closely to the ideas of URIs and resources in HTTP.
20:55	mdeboard	although frankly our URLs are just Solr queries.
20:55	ibdknox	:p
20:55	ibdknox	weavejester: how so?
20:55	mdeboard	e.g. /ibm/careers/indianapolis/indiana/usa/jobs/
20:56	jroes	LuminousMonkey: a lot of the most recent literature points toward modeling domain objects in your primary development language and not in your persistence layer
20:56	weavejester	ibdknox: Well, a HTTP request or response is effectively an immutable value - you can't alter it after it's been sent.
20:56	weavejester	ibdknox: A resource is an identity, equivalent to a ref in Clojure, in that it contains a value bound to a range of time.
20:57	weavejester	ibdknox: You can say, "This identity had the value X from time t1 to t2"
20:57	weavejester	ibdknox: My favorite color was red from 2010 to 2011 or something like that.
20:57	ibdknox	yeah
20:57	weavejester	ibdknox: A URI is similar to a namespaced var.
20:58	mdeboard	hm.
20:58	ibdknox	that's true so long as you're building pages
20:58	weavejester	If you're building web services that return resources as well.
20:58	mdeboard	interesting way of thinking about it, and especially applicable to views like http://jobs.jobs/new-york/new-york/usa/jobs/communication-jobs/new-jobs/deloitte/careers/
20:58	mdeboard	@ weavejester
21:00	weavejester	mdeboard: Yep
21:00	technomancy	the difference between a resource and a representation is very key to this
21:00	weavejester	A representation is just a serialization of a data structure IMO
21:01	weavejester	ibdknox: Out of interest, when do you think it isn't true?
21:02	ibdknox	I guess it's true if you assume that those "vars" are always functions to execute
21:03	ibdknox	I thought you were suggesting they were values
21:03	weavejester	ibdknox: I am
21:03	ibdknox	hm, that's not true if I think of it as "I click this link, which adds an element to the page"
21:04	ibdknox	that url is probably something like /blah/add
21:04	weavejester	But isn't that something for Java/Clojurescript to handle?
21:04	mrakan	Why does Clojure silently convert the following into a double? (class (Math/pow (java.math.BigDecimal. 2) (java.math.BigDecimal. 48))) I'd like an exact 2^48 integer value, but I'm not sure how to accomplish that.
21:04	ibdknox	no
21:04	ibdknox	not if it needs to be synced across the state of the application
21:05	hiredman	mrakan: Math/pow only does doubles
21:05	weavejester	I mean, the Javascript would make an appropriate resource update.
21:05	weavejester	So you'd click a link, and then you'd POST to /blah to create a new /blah resource
21:05	weavejester	I mean, the JS would POST in the background
21:06	hiredman	clojure is actually converting your bigdecimals to doubles too, because math/pow only takes doubles as arguments and returns doubles
21:06	ibdknox	weavejester: sure, that sounds like a function to me though, I didn't access a value
21:06	mrakan	hiredman: Ah, I see. How would one then get an exact 2^48 value, using Clojure? The algo.generic library just aliases pow to Math/pow, so I see no alternatives...
21:07	hiredman	mrakan: read the docs on bigdecimals
21:07	ibdknox	weavejester: I don't really think that distinction matters though, your argument makes good sense both ways
21:07	weavejester	ibdknox: Well, the analogy falls down a little because you don't often create vars programmatically in Clojure.
21:07	weavejester	And in practice, you wouldn't represent routes as vars because there's too many of them
21:08	dnolen	mmarczyk: new CLJS optimization idea
21:08	dnolen	mmarczyk: making satisfies? use bit testing
21:08	dnolen	mmarczyk: hidden field on deftype and defrecord for storing the protocols integer
21:08	gfredericks	mrakan: and of course there is ##(apply * (repeat 48 2N))
21:08	lazybot	⇒ 281474976710656N
21:08	weavejester	But in principle you're either creating, deleting or modifying an identity with a new immutable value in HTTP
21:08	mmarczyk	dnolen: ohhhh, that's very cool
21:08	mmarczyk	dnolen: reserved for core protocols I guess?
21:09	weavejester	Oh, on a different topic, has anyone written a dynamically-compiling caching ClojureScript middleware?
21:09	mmarczyk	dnolen: of which we have ~40, a quick M-x occur tells me
21:10	gfredericks	which lib should I look at for examples of requiring and instantiating a gclosure class? for some reason I never get this right the first try...
21:10	ibdknox	weavejester: absolutely, but I think there's something that can live on top of that abstraction too - I'm not sure I should have to think about http anymore. And how I'm considering that might look actually plays really nicely with what you're talking about.
21:10	mrakan	gfredericks: That's probably rather slow, surely? (bit-shift-left 1 48) comes to mind, but I'll into the docs to see a more readable example.
21:11	mmarczyk	dnolen: (incidentally, I've posted patches on the IReduce & IIndexed tickets, plus the cljs.reader ticket -- CLJS-225)
21:11	gfredericks	mrakan: definitely, so depends on how often you do it
21:11	weavejester	ibdknox: I'd be interested in hearing more, if you're willing.
21:11	ibdknox	weavejester: I was basically thinking of abstracting routes behind symbols that mapped to vars on the server using CLJ/CLJS
21:13	weavejester	ibdknox: How would it work with a route like "/users/N" where N can be any number?
21:13	ibdknox	weavejester: that's a function to me :) and so you'd just say (users 5)
21:13	ibdknox	vars can hold any value, right?
21:13	ibdknox	the atom one is much more interestin
21:13	ibdknox	g
21:14	ibdknox	if you have either websockets or a polling scheme, you could keep the atom sync'd
21:14	weavejester	ibdknox: Right. And… what would you get out? A ref of some description? Something derefable at least?
21:14	ibdknox	weavejester: you'd get whatever that route would return
21:16	weavejester	ibdknox: Ah, okay. I was thinking of taking it a step futher, and instead of just returning a value, return a ref that includes some sort of time data.
21:16	ibdknox	ah
21:16	ibdknox	interesting
21:16	wmealing	i have a long running process and want to deal with plugins that can be downloaded/added at runtime is there an existing clojure project which does a live .. check'n' load ? ala plugin ?
21:16	weavejester	So you'd not only have a value, but also a time when that value was valid.
21:17	weavejester	Which would be useful for caching
21:17	dnolen	mmarczyk: yes JS doesn't have an efficient way to test interfaces like Java.
21:18	dnolen	mmarczyk: looking for a value further up the prototype chain is not particularly fast.
21:18	weavejester	ibdknox: But I agree that binding a route to a var is likely where we want to go.
21:18	dnolen	mmarczyk: JS only has 32bit ints when doing bit ops.
21:18	dnolen	mmarczyk: my thought was to keep the optimization modest for now.
21:18	dnolen	mmarczyk: only handle the most commmon protocols, specifically the ones we have predicates for that we call all the time.
21:18	ibdknox	weavejester: and cljs can make that completely transparent
21:18	ibdknox	which is the exciting part
21:18	weavejester	Right :)
21:19	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, so just a short list of, say, ISeq, ISeqable, ICounted, IIndexed, possibly IRecord?
21:20	weavejester	It would be nice to be able to hit a route via cljs, and get back a ref representing that resource.
21:20	weavejester	Which could then be derefed anywhere in the cljs code into a value.
21:20	dnolen	mmarczyk: something like that
21:21	mmarczyk	dnolen: then for those protocols we could see if a given objects prototype hasOwnProperty of, say, cljs$protocols_mask$ (which all deftype'd / defrecord'd things will have) and bit-and against that if yes
21:21	mmarczyk	dnolen: does that sound about right?
21:21	ibdknox	weavejester: yeah, definitely something to think more about :)
21:21	ibdknox	I think we can beat folks like meteor at their own game pretty easily
21:23	dnolen	mmarczyk: I think the hasOwnProperty test was a mistake on my part
21:23	weavejester	Clojure's concepts of identity and state and value are basically mappable directly onto REST and HTTP
21:23	mmarczyk	yeah, we'll be the titanic batter who bats the meteor away and proceeds to complete a home run
21:23	mmarczyk	(if my understanding of baseball is correct)
21:23	dnolen	marchdown: I want to remove hasOwnProperty completely. I just added that so type ctors can printable - but I think that should be handled differently.
21:23	weavejester	Languages with mutable data structures tend not to map so well.
21:24	dnolen	mmarczyk: oops that ^ was for you. hasOwnProperty tests are also not that fast.
21:24	mmarczyk	dnolen: hm, ok
21:25	mmarczyk	dnolen: so just do a straight lookup and check for undefined?
21:25	dnolen	mmarczyk: we'll still do all the slow tests, but if we see that it's a matching protocol, we add the fast test first.
21:26	dnolen	not nil && (bit test \|\| prototype chain)
21:26	mmarczyk	dnolen: oh wait, (bit-and js/undefined 12354) works fine
21:26	mmarczyk	dnolen: right
21:27	brehaut	it mgiht be the confirmation bias talking, but i agree with weavejester
21:29	mmarczyk	dnolen: actually there's no reason not to nominate 32 protos for the fast path -- changing our mind later will be no problem
21:29	mmarczyk	dnolen: (defprotocol ^:bitmasked ISeq ...) ?
21:30	mmarczyk	dnolen: results unspecified if >= 32 protos marked this way
21:31	dnolen	mmarczyk: haha, I don't want to leak the implementation yet :)
21:31	dnolen	mmarczyk: this about making idiomatic CLJS fast
21:32	dnolen	mmarczyk: deftype performance is great - but idiomatic CLJS still leaves much to be desired.
21:33	mmarczyk	dnolen: I'm not proposing that this be advertised as available for use outside of core :-)
21:33	dgrnbrg	How do I write (symbol (name (ns-name ns)) (name (gensym))) idiomatically?
21:33	dnolen	mmarczyk: even that's too much for my tastes.
21:33	dgrnbrg	,(symbol (name (ns-name ns)) (name (gensym)))
21:33	dnolen	mmarczyk: I prefer a map in the core.clj macros file for now.
21:33	clojurebot	sandbox/G__29
21:34	mmarczyk	dnolen: sure, definitely less tempting
21:35	mmarczyk	dnolen: is this applicable to native types? that is, should IIndexed hang something on String.prototype, say?
21:35	dnolen	mmarczyk: I'm fine with slow path for native types for now.
21:36	dnolen	mmarczyk: what drives me crazy is seq? on types we've already wrapped with IndexedSeq
21:36	mmarczyk	dnolen: well yes
21:36	dnolen	for example this is what we basically should do in the optimized rest fn case.
21:37	mmarczyk	IFn should definitely make the list, btw
21:37	dnolen	mmarczyk: yeah
21:39	mrakan	How come (java.math.BigDecimal. 5) works, but (java.math.BigInteger. 5) complains of a missing constructor? I tried importing by adding (:import [java.math.BigInteger]), but none of the constructors are available even then.
21:40	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, so for now it would be (1) a fast-path-protocols map in core.clj; (2) an extra condition in the if in satisfies? right after x# -- with a bit-and; (3) extend-type needs also to be aware and attach a bitmap when extending to a fast path proto
21:41	LuminousMonkey	mrakan: (java.math.BigInteger. "5") works...
21:41	LuminousMonkey	mrakan: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/1.4.2/docs/api/java/math/BigInteger.html
21:41	mrakan	LuminousMonkey: Ahhh, thanks!
21:41	mrakan	http://clojure.github.com/algo.generic/clojure.algo.generic.math-f\
21:41	mmarczyk	dnolen: does this sound about right? if so, could do a quick proof of concept
21:41	mrakan	Whoops.
21:42	dnolen	mmarczyk: cool, let me commit some optimization to satisfied right now.
21:43	mmarczyk	dnolen: great
21:43	mmarczyk	dnolen: I'll solicit extend-type's cooperation then
21:45	dnolen	mmarczyk: k pushed to master, satisfies? should be free of calls to truth_
21:46	dnolen	mmarczyk: in your experiments you should eliminate the hasOwnProperty test of course.
21:46	dnolen	gotta run.
21:46	mmarczyk	dnolen: looks greats
21:46	mmarczyk	^great
21:46	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, see you later
21:46	mmarczyk	dnolen: I'll do a POC and create a ticket then
21:46	dnolen	cool
21:52	muhoo	technomancy: deploying an app to a different heroku account than my own. is this really the most current way to do that? http://www.aeonscope.net/2010/02/22/managing-multiple-heroku-accounts/
21:55	mrakan	I'm new to Clojure. Is it expected that the core library is lacking somewhat, because it's still a rather new language? For instance, bit-shift-right doesn't work with clojure.lang.BigInts. I could just use all the java.math.BigInteger methods to manipulate the numbers, but it would be a lot uglier.
21:58	LuminousMonkey	mrakan: I don't know if that's something that core would take care of? If it existed it would be something in contrib?
22:00	LuminousMonkey	mrakan: Like pow, etc, that's in clojure.math.numeric-tower
22:01	aphyr	Not gonna lie, I really want early return right now.
22:02	LuminousMonkey	mrakan: http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Documentation+for+1.3+Numerics
22:02	LuminousMonkey	mrakan: I think you'll have to resort to Java.
22:04	creese	I need to create a function that takes a set of words and returns a hash with the letters of those words as keys.
22:05	creese	I have something that works but feels like clojure anti-pattern
22:06	brehaut	,(do (require 'clojure.string) (frequencies (clojure.string/join #{"hello" "world"})))
22:06	clojurebot	{\h 1, \e 1, \l 3, \o 2, \w 1, ...}
22:07	brehaut	you didnt say what you wanted the values of the hash to be
22:08	Raynes	aphyr: I doubt that.
22:09	aphyr	Raynes: Yeah, I do too!
22:09	aphyr	Raynes: (f1 (f2 (f3)))
22:09	aphyr	Raynes: each of f1, f2, and f3 can throw an exception
22:09	aphyr	and need separate try/catch blocks
22:10	aphyr	returning from each catch block
22:10	creese	#{"cat" "hat"} -> {\a #{"cat" "hat"} \c #{"cat" "hat"} \h #{"hat"} \t #{"cat" "hat"}}
22:10	creese	that's what I want
22:11	creese	set -> hash where letters are keys and values are sets of words
22:11	aphyr	Raynes: as far as I can tell, I need to either re-raise a unique exception from each layer, abuse dynamic bindings, or return [ok, x] [error, z] tuples from each stage which get automatically handled by some macro.
22:12	emezeske	aphyr: Returning an ok/error tuple is a very normal thing to do in a functional language
22:13	aphyr	emezeske: yeah, I'm used to it in erlang. I'm considering writing a macro to automatically unwind the call sequence if it sees an error in one of the inside calls.
22:13	aphyr	reduce through the chain, basically.
22:14	emezeske	aphyr: Should be simple to do. I wrote a macro kind of like that, but only for boolean results (not ok/error tuples), and it was just a few lines
22:14	aphyr	I feel like this is a common enough pattern that someone has already solved it.
22:14	aphyr	Should I use a condition library?
22:14	emezeske	aphyr: I think the premade solution is the maybe monad
22:15	aphyr	Oh, of course! /me digs up the docs
22:16	emezeske	I'm not sure if maybe-m allows information about the error to be kept around, though
22:16	emezeske	<-- not a monad expert
22:16	brehaut	it doesnt
22:16	brehaut	the error is just nil; its a short circuit
22:16	creese	does that clarify what I'm trying to do?
22:16	brehaut	however its trivial to make an error-m that does
22:17	mmarczyk	that's what either-m is for
22:17	leo2007	is var more like a global constant?
22:17	mmarczyk	not sure if algo.monads provides that -- probably does
22:17	mmarczyk	but Either's used for short-circuiting computations w/ some error state in Haskell
22:18	brehaut	no either-m is present
22:18	mmarczyk	one returns Right value in case of success, Left errorValue for error; >>= passes through the first Left
22:19	mmarczyk	oh.
22:19	brehaut	http://brehaut.net/blog/2011/error_monads_revisited
22:20	brehaut	(and for context http://brehaut.net/blog/2011/error_monads )
22:21	brehaut	i was just using it to allow xml-rpc stuff that threw Fault records back to short circuit handlers
22:22	mmarczyk	cool
22:22	brehaut	i do like that the clojure monads imp allows you to define them parametrically
22:26	creese	(zipmap (seq (first seuss)) (repeat 3 (first seuss)))
22:26	creese	{\t "cat", \a "cat", \c "cat"}
22:27	creese	how can I use 'merge' to get the rest of the words into the hash?
22:28	aphyr	creese: I'd use merge-with
22:28	aphyr	(apply merge-with concat (map-of-chars-to-each-word))
22:32	aphyr	ooh: https://github.com/scgilardi/slingshot
22:32	xeqi	&(reduce (partial merge-with clojure.set/union) (map (fn [w] (reduce #(assoc %1 %2 #{w}) {} w)) (clojure.string/split "the cat in the hat" #" ")))
22:32	lazybot	⇒ {\i #{"in"}, \n #{"in"}, \c #{"cat"}, \a #{"cat" "hat"}, \e #{"the"}, \h #{"the" "hat"}, \t #{"the" "cat" "hat"}}
22:33	LuminousMonkey	That's just cool.
22:34	creese	&(map #(zipmap (seq %) (repeat 3 (hash-set %))) #{"cat" "hat"})
22:34	lazybot	⇒ ({\t #{"cat"}, \a #{"cat"}, \c #{"cat"}} {\t #{"hat"}, \a #{"hat"}, \h #{"hat"}})
22:35	creese	I can't get yours to compile: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.set
22:35	creese	what do I need in ns?
22:35	brehaut	(require 'clojure.set)
22:36	brehaut	oh, thats repl not ns
22:36	creese	I'm compiling into the repl so it should be okay
22:38	creese	:require [clojure.set :as set]
22:38	creese	?
22:38	brehaut	sure
22:38	xeqi	that would work, just shorten the ns in what I pasted
22:40	muhoo	this is interesting. i installed heroku accounts plugin via this martyhaught.com/articles/2010/12/14/managing-multiple-heroku-accounts/
22:41	muhoo	set it up, and now, it can't find and won't let me access the 2 clojure apps i deployed
22:41	muhoo	it does, however, show an ancient ruby app i worked on years ago.
22:41	creese	why does the repl need clojure.set but not clojure.string?
22:42	muhoo	i suspect i must have been logged in as someone else, who now has my apps :-O
22:42	muhoo	and i can't get them back :-(
22:42	xeqi	creese: perhaps you have transatively required clojure.string already
22:44	creese	I don't follow
22:49	xeqi	when you require a namespace that namespace can require others, and so on
22:51	creese	I see
22:51	creese	&(apply merge-with set/union (map #(zipmap (seq %) (repeat 3 (hash-set %))) seuss))
22:51	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: set
22:52	creese	&(apply merge-with clojure.set/union (map #(zipmap (seq %) (repeat 3 (hash-set %))) #{"cat" "hat"}))
22:52	lazybot	⇒ {\h #{"hat"}, \t #{"cat" "hat"}, \a #{"cat" "hat"}, \c #{"cat"}}
22:55	xeqi	close
22:55	creese	mine only works with 2 words, right?
22:55	xeqi	words of length <= 3
22:55	creese	and 3 letters long
22:56	creese	ha!
22:56	creese	it works for any number of words
22:58	technomancy	muhoo: you don't need a plugin to deploy an app owned by a different account, you just need that account to add you as a collaborator
22:58	creese	yeah, I can't see how to get the 3 out
22:59	xeqi	&(doc repeat)
22:59	lazybot	⇒ "([x] [n x]); Returns a lazy (infinite!, or length n if supplied) sequence of xs."
23:00	leo2007	has lein been replaced by something else?
23:01	jodaro	i'm going back to ant
23:01	jodaro	cuz i love writing xml
23:02	creese	wow
23:03	creese	I'm astounded
23:03	leo2007	me 2
23:06	xeqi	maybe by lein 2.0 previews
23:06	muhoo	technomancy: oh, but they haven't added the project. i have to add it.
23:06	muhoo	while logged in as them
23:06	muhoo	then i can add myself as a collaborator.
23:06	creese	&(apply merge-with set/union (map #(zipmap (seq %) (repeat (hash-set %))) #{"the" "cat" "in" "the" "hat"))
23:06	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )
23:06	creese	(apply merge-with set/union (map #(zipmap (seq %) (repeat (hash-set %))) #{"the" "cat" "in" "the" "hat"}))
23:07	creese	&(apply merge-with set/union (map #(zipmap (seq %) (repeat (hash-set %))) #{"the" "cat" "in" "the" "hat"}))
23:07	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Duplicate key: the
23:07	creese	&(apply merge-with set/union (map #(zipmap (seq %) (repeat (hash-set %))) #{"cat" "in" "the" "hat"}))
23:07	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: set
23:07	creese	"_"
23:07	creese	: &(apply merge-with clojure.set/union (map #(zipmap (seq %) (repeat (hash-set %))) #{"cat" "in" "the" "hat"}))
23:08	creese	&(apply merge-with clojure.set/union (map #(zipmap (seq %) (repeat (hash-set %))) #{"cat" "in" "the" "hat"}))
23:08	lazybot	⇒ {\c #{"cat"}, \a #{"cat" "hat"}, \t #{"the" "cat" "hat"}, \h #{"the" "hat"}, \e #{"the"}, \n #{"in"}, \i #{"in"}}
23:08	creese	whew
23:09	muhoo	technomancy: nm, i found the problem. i had 2 accounts, different emails
23:21	creese	when I try to assign it to an atom, I get 'nil' instead of the hash. What is wrong with this?
23:22	creese	https://refheap.com/paste/2518
23:23	brehaut	creese: apply merge-with is passing a hash into swap! …
23:23	brehaut	,(swap! (atom {}) {:foo 1})
23:23	clojurebot	nil
23:23	creese	what should I be passing to it?
23:23	brehaut	creese: a function of the old map to the new map
23:24	brehaut	,(swap! (atom {}) (fn [m] (assoc m :foo 1)))
23:24	clojurebot	{:foo 1}
23:24	xeqi	&(doc constantly)
23:24	lazybot	⇒ "([x]); Returns a function that takes any number of arguments and returns x."
23:24	brehaut	weeell no
23:24	brehaut	you probably want reset! at that point
23:25	brehaut	,(reset! (atom {}) {:foo 1})
23:25	clojurebot	{:foo 1}
23:25	brehaut	but reset! kinda violates how atoms are intended to be used
23:25	brehaut	(doc reset!)
23:25	clojurebot	"([atom newval]); Sets the value of atom to newval without regard for the current value. Returns newval."
23:25	brehaut	violates is too strong
23:26	brehaut	if you are using reset! a lot, you are probably not using atoms the way they are intended
23:27	creese	initially, the hash will be empty and I need to populate it
23:27	creese	later, I will delete keys and/or values
23:27	brehaut	right
23:28	brehaut	if you can call atom with the initial value that would be better, but one call to reset! at the start is ok
23:28	creese	oh
23:28	creese	ok
23:29	creese	but if I call atom inside a function, will it be globally available to other functions?
23:29	brehaut	if you replace line 3's (atom {}) with (atom …)
23:29	brehaut	then yeah you'll be fine
23:30	creese	what does … mean?
23:30	brehaut	your code to generate het initial state
23:31	creese	are saying delete { } and put … or put nothing?
23:32	brehaut	put whatever you would be putting in the reset! in where … is
23:33	creese	what if I used assoc and gave swap! a list of keys?
23:33	brehaut	thats fine
23:52	ivan	&(*' 99999999999 99999999999)
23:52	lazybot	⇒ 9999999999800000000001N
23:52	ivan	wtf. that overflows here
23:52	ivan	,(*' 99999999999 99999999999)
23:52	clojurebot	9999999999800000000001N
23:52	Raynes	The bots never overflow.
23:53	ivan	maybe this is some terrible Java 7 / Windows thing
23:54	ivan	user=> (*' 99999999999 99999999999)
23:54	ivan	ArithmeticException integer overflow clojure.lang.Numbers.throwIntOverflow (Numbers.java:1388)
23:55	wei_	is there a good way to halt execution if any agent in a list has failed?
23:56	xeqi	&clojure-version
23:56	lazybot	⇒ {:major 1, :minor 4, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil}
23:56	ivan	oh, I am an idiot who redefined *' for kicks yesterday
23:57	ivan	the wonders of not closing your REPL
23:57	ivan	the nil (doc *') should have given it away
23:58	ivan	Swing is so weird. How does a keystroke event in one window bubble up to a completely different process?