#clojure – 2012-05-01

2012-05-01

00:00	LuminousMonkey	Editors tend to be a religious choice as well.
00:00	ibdknox	yep
00:00	wmealing	i want the good tools, not a religious choice.
00:00	wmealing	i'm sure i'm not the only one
00:01	muhoo	religions tend to arise out of ignorance and limited technology.
00:01	LuminousMonkey	wmealing: Clojure is the reason I went to Emacs, SLIME.
00:01	wmealing	LuminousMonkey, me too.. vim did everything i needed till clojure
00:02	wmealing	and it wasn't a "religion" for me, just the first thing i knew
00:02	wmealing	change when i need to
00:02	ibdknox	vim does fine for Clojure for me
00:02	wmealing	i had issues with nailgun
00:02	wmealing	ie, not being able to find the server
00:02	ibdknox	huh, never had any issues there
00:03	wmealing	the authors link on his webpage simply doesn't exist
00:03	LuminousMonkey	I had a problem running nailgun under Solaris, had to submit a patch.
00:03	muhoo	ibdknox: anyway, sorry for bothering you with iwbyp. i hadn't seen latest lighttable status, looks like you're going to be very busy, very soon. good luck!
00:04	LuminousMonkey	But, at the end of the day, it was just my own personal feeling of programming Clojure in Emacs vs Vim.
00:04	ibdknox	muhoo: already am, haha. Thanks :)
00:04	wmealing	tbh, editor doesn't really matter with midje lazytest
00:04	LuminousMonkey	And that's what's important, I guess that's why no matter what editor you use, as long as you can make it how you want it to be, that's the important thing.
00:04	wmealing	spend most of my time thinking, not coding.
00:05	ibdknox	yeah far more of my time is spent not at the keyboard
00:05	LuminousMonkey	Definitely true.
00:06	LuminousMonkey	And having a REPL to get quick feedback is useful. :)
00:33	creese	I have java function that returns an enum but when I print the result I get some stuff enclosed in brackets ('< >') and a hash ('#") out front.
00:33	creese	Is there an easy way to get rid of those?
00:41	kovasb	creese: that is how the clojure repl prints java objects
00:41	kovasb	creese: so if you want to get rid of those, you need to convert it into a pure clojure datastructure
00:41	kovasb	creese: try calling seq on it?
00:42	creese	it's a string
00:43	kovasb	on the original enum
00:43	creese	I guess the enum isn't a string
00:43	creese	it says "don't know how to create"
00:44	kovasb	ok
00:44	kovasb	i guess that isn't one of the collections that has seq implemented on it
00:44	creese	but str works
00:44	creese	thanks
00:44	kovasb	i'd look at the clojure api docs, maybe there is something to convert it
00:45	kovasb	otherwise you need to look up the keys yourself
00:45	kovasb	and turn it into a map or something
00:45	creese	str works
00:45	kovasb	cool
00:45	kovasb	i wonder how it does it :)
00:52	muhoo	&(seq "foobar")
00:52	lazybot	⇒ (\f \o \o \b \a \r)
00:52	muhoo	&(str (seq "foobar"))
00:52	lazybot	⇒ "(\\f \\o \\o \\b \\a \\r)"
00:52	muhoo	ack
00:52	muhoo	&(apply str (seq "foobar"))
00:52	lazybot	⇒ "foobar"
00:56	muhoo	&(apply str (map #(char (+ 1 (int %))) (seq "foobar")))
00:56	lazybot	⇒ "gppcbs"
00:56	wkmanire	howdy folks.
00:57	muhoo	evenin
00:57	kovasb	what up
00:57	wkmanire	Oh not too much.
00:57	wkmanire	Just trying to reinvent the wheel again. again.
00:57	wkmanire	:/
00:57	kovasb	me too
00:58	kovasb	which one?
00:58	muhoo	the round one? cool!
00:58	kovasb	lol
00:58	wkmanire	I have to build a dynamic flyout menu in javascript.
00:58	wkmanire	With lots of great requirements.
00:58	kovasb	nice, custom menus
00:58	creese	what do the backslashes in (\f \o \o) mean?
00:59	muhoo	creese: chars
00:59	wkmanire	creese: Character literals.
00:59	wmealing	its a char
00:59	creese	so like a string but without \n
00:59	muhoo	&(map #(class %) (seq "foobar"))
00:59	lazybot	⇒ (java.lang.Character java.lang.Character java.lang.Character java.lang.Character java.lang.Character java.lang.Character)
00:59	muhoo	this is weird, i feel more comfortable answering questions in clojure code than in english
01:00	wkmanire	muhoo: English is overrated.
01:00	muhoo	&true
01:00	lazybot	⇒ true
01:03	muhoo	&("wkmanire is right" true)
01:03	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
01:03	muhoo	&(do "wkmanire is right" true)
01:03	lazybot	⇒ true
01:03	muhoo	see, lazybot agrees with you :-)
01:28	creese	how do I interrupt the repl without killing it?
01:30	_tca	creese: I don't know what you mean by interrupt, but I'd guess you want "Ctrl-z"
01:30	creese	I had a runaway process like (while true)
01:31	ivan	creese: (clojure.repl/set-break-handler!)
01:31	creese	aright
01:32	wkmanire	weird.
01:32	wkmanire	I think someone just tried to PM me but erc bugged out.
01:33	wkmanire	&(make ('sammich))
01:33	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: make in this context
01:33	wkmanire	Don't think he's gonna do it.
01:35	muhoo	sudo?
01:39	wkmanire	Veeeird
01:39	wkmanire	ERC pretended that I had received a PM then died a horrible death.
01:42	wkmanire	Tired programmer is hungry.
02:20	zanes	Is parsley the parsing library du jour, or is there something better?
02:27	creese	can you create a hash where you only store keys?
02:28	amalloy	you mean...a set?
02:28	creese	is the lookup as fast as a hash?
02:35	ivan	creese: yes
02:35	creese	ok
02:42	kovasb	anyone willing to test this web repl i just made?
02:43	Raynes	kovasb: No way dude, what if it haz viruz!!?!?!1!!1!
02:43	kovasb	it is very viral. it contains the clojure har
02:43	kovasb	jar
02:44	kovasb	shit is spreading everywhere
02:45	kovasb	https://github.com/kovasb/session
02:45	kovasb	i wouldn't recommend looking at the source unless u want ur eyes to blee
02:45	kovasb	d
02:45	kovasb	I'm just curious if this works at all
02:45	kovasb	though i suppose i can try more rigorous testing myself :)
02:46	Raynes	kovasb: Please don't put closing parens on their own lines.
02:46	Raynes	Kittens die when you do that.
02:46	kovasb	lol
02:47	kovasb	i told u not to look at the source ;)
02:47	LuminousMonkey	I like to punch kittens in the face.
02:47	LuminousMonkey	That's like telling someone on a ledge not to look down...
02:47	kovasb	alright, looks like it definitely doest work in safari..
02:47	Raynes	Two kittens die at once when you find it difficult to type out all three letters of 'you'.
02:47	kovasb	wtf
02:47	Raynes	Nothing works in Safari except for apple.com.
02:48	Raynes	That's how they corner the market.
02:49	creese	Can someone tell me what's wrong with this?
02:49	creese	https://refheap.com/paste/2484
02:50	kovasb	creese: false is not a function
02:51	kovasb	but you are invoking it as a function
02:51	creese	how do I return false then?
02:51	Raynes	Just... 'false'
02:51	kovasb	unwrap it from its parens
02:51	creese	but it's in a do
02:51	Raynes	It doesn't matter.
02:51	creese	oh
02:51	Raynes	The last thing in a do is returned.
02:51	kovasb	do evaluates each of its arguments in order
02:51	Raynes	creese: Also, is @mem a map?
02:51	creese	set
02:52	creese	(def mem (atom #{}))
02:52	Raynes	(if (@mem letter) ..)
02:52	Raynes	contains? is unnecessary here, since sets are functions that do the same thing (for all intents and purposes in this case).
02:53	Raynes	&(#{:foo :bar :baz} :bar)
02:53	lazybot	⇒ :bar
02:53	Raynes	&(if (#{:foo :bar :baz} :bar) "yea" "nea")
02:53	lazybot	⇒ "yea"
02:53	Raynes	&(if (#{:foo :bar :baz} :quux) "yea" "nea")
02:53	lazybot	⇒ "nea"
02:54	Raynes	Not that you're hurting anything by using contains?. Just not doing it saves a bit of space. :)
02:54	Chousuke	code golf: (or (@mem letter) (swap! mem conj letter)) :p
02:54	Chousuke	the if form may be clearer though
02:54	creese	got it
02:54	Chousuke	and hm, I guess you'd need a not around the swap
02:55	creese	not around the swap?
02:55	Chousuke	in my example
02:55	creese	oh
02:55	Chousuke	just to negate the return value of swap!
02:55	creese	would I need contains? if it was a hash?
02:56	Raynes	Nope.
02:56	Chousuke	you'd need contains? for java sets
02:56	Raynes	Or if you really needed the exact true/false values for some reason.
02:57	Chousuke	well you could have a map containing :key false.
02:57	Chousuke	in that case you'd need contains? to check whether :key is there
02:58	creese	heh
02:58	creese	my keys are all going to be letters
03:06	Raynes	Sure, you say that now. Eventually numbers are going to start looking real nice and you're not going to be able to maintain your composure.
03:08	wmealing	why did i read that in a pirate voice.
03:10	LuminousMonkey	Sure purty numbers.
03:10	LuminousMonkey	Really purty.
03:25	zblut_	Hello I have a simple question
03:25	zblut_	regarding addition
03:27	zblut_	OK never mind sorry
03:27	LuminousMonkey	I like those kinds of questions, I'm good at those.
03:28	AimHere	Simplest. Question. Ever.
03:34	Raynes	"Excuse me, I have a problem. One moment while I fix it myself, please."
03:34	LuminousMonkey	Do we get credit for the answer?
03:34	LuminousMonkey	I need that warm fuzzy feeling.
05:46	angerman	why would clojure (via lein run) print "????" instead of "äöüß"?
05:50	raek	angerman: are you running this on Mac OS X?
05:50	angerman	yes
05:50	angerman	reak I can type those characters into the terminal though.
05:50	raek	the "default encoding" is broken in the java distributed with mac os x
05:51	angerman	reak how to rectify?
05:51	raek	I think you can set an environment variable
05:51	raek	wait a minute
05:51	angerman	ok.
05:52	raek	the java option is -Dfile.encoding=UTF-8
05:52	angerman	ok. that way I can run the jar. but how can I tell leinignen?
05:53	raek	I think you can set it via the JAVA_OPTS environment variable
05:53	angerman	i did try the :jvm-opts
05:53	angerman	but that didn't work.
05:53	angerman	ok. let's see
05:54	raek	could perhaps be related to this: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/326
05:55	raek	angerman: which version of lein do you use?
05:55	angerman	Leiningen 1.7.1 on Java 1.6.0_31 Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM
05:56	raek	ah, sorry. it should be JVM_OPTS
05:56	angerman	hmm. no JAVA_OPTS seems right.
05:56	clojurebot	Excuse me?
05:56	raek	hm, ok.
05:56	angerman	it's working now.
05:57	raek	angerman: you should set this option globally on your system (I don't have a mac, so I don't know how to do that)
05:57	TEttinger	,(str :hello :bruce)
05:57	clojurebot	":hello:bruce"
05:57	angerman	reak: that's what I'm trying. JAVA_OPTS is what lein picks up. java -jar seems not to.
06:00	goodieboy	could someone explain to me how the Clojure delay class works?
06:00	goodieboy	Checking out the source here, there's not much: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Delay.java
06:01	goodieboy	If I do a google search for clojure.lang.IDeref there's even less code to look at
06:02	raek	goodieboy: if 'fn' is non-null and 'val' is null, then the delayed computation has not been forced yet and the function to compute the value is in 'fn'
06:03	raek	goodieboy: if 'fn' is null, then he value has been forced and is stored in val
06:03	goodieboy	raek: OK makes sense so far
06:03	goodieboy	raek: How does it "block" other threads while the computation is running for the first time?
06:03	raek	goodieboy: the "synchronized" keyword takes care of that
06:04	goodieboy	raek: ahh!
06:04	goodieboy	excellent, so simple. i get it now.
06:04	goodieboy	thanks for pointing that out
06:04	laurus	What are the numeric types for Clojurescript based on? JavaScript ones?
06:06	bruce	what IDE do most people use - I am new to clojure
06:06	TEttinger	bruce: as far as I know, emacs is very popular, but most of them are fairly good
06:07	bruce	Anybody use eclipse? I am mixing Java a lot and like the debugger
06:07	TEttinger	bruce: http://timpner.com/computing/clojure-importing-a-leiningen-project-into-eclipse/ is useful for eclipse integration with leiningen. leiningen is a work of art; a project manager that auto-handles dependencies
06:08	TEttinger	(also, you use clojure instead of XML)
06:08	bruce	everybody tells me it is sweet :-)
06:08	TEttinger	the important thing with that example is to make the leiningen project first. you will rely on your project.clj primarily, and only use the eclipse .project file locally
06:10	TEttinger	by changing the dependencies in project.clj, you can update with `lein deps`
06:10	TEttinger	lein also has the wonderful `lein uberjar` for distribution, which is an uncommon feature that bundles everything in one jar -- no dependencies scattered around or in necessary adjacent folders
06:11	TEttinger	lein can be found at https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/
06:12	TEttinger	you probably don't want lein 2.0 yet, I know of a few libs that aren't updated yet
06:12	wmealing	uncommon feature, i thought it was _the_ feature for leiningen
06:12	wmealing	it is awesome
06:13	TEttinger	wmealing, yeah, that's what I mean. it is rare in the JVM ecosystem
06:13	TEttinger	but easy to use in leiningen
06:14	TEttinger	uberjar is great
06:15	angerman	how do I use clojure 1.4 date parsing function?
06:15	angerman	raek: thanks. it does work nicely now :)
06:16	angerman	so I have a date that looks like: 2012-04-30T19:18:00-07:00
06:16	angerman	and I want to get a DateTime Object from it.
06:16	bradwright	That's ISO8601 format
06:17	bradwright	No idea what the latest good way of parsing that is though, sorry
06:17	angerman	I thought clojure 1.4 was able to deal with those natively, no?
06:19	progo	well, 'natively' (just a reader macro that expands to code as native as the old way). Try #inst
06:20	TEttinger	http://snipplr.com/view/62060/ ?
06:24	raek	angerman: joda-time (or the clj-time wrapper) is THE library you should use for date handling
06:25	angerman	hmm. alright. I just though stuff like this would get magically easier with clojure 1.4
06:25	raek	two iterations of date handling libraries are included in the java standard library, but both have serious defects
06:26	raek	I think the difference is that you can write #datetime "2012-04-30T19:18:00-07:00" instead of (DateTime/parse "2012-04-30T19:18:00-07:00"), or something like that
06:26	raek	which can be useful for serialization
06:26	raek	since the conversion to a DateTime is done at read-time
06:27	angerman	well, now It's with Joda Time :)
06:28	raek	yeah, the design of joda time fits very well with clojure
06:28	raek	immutable values, etc
06:29	raek	it also treats instants differently from datetimes, which I like
06:52	goodieboy	is it considered bad practice to call code other than def and defn in a namespace, for example... executing functions that change the state of vars in that namespace?
06:58	raek	goodieboy: there are some legitimate uses. multimethods and derive, for example, mutate global things
06:59	raek	you should consider what happens if you run "lein uberjar" and have AOT compilation activated for that ns
07:00	raek	a bad thing would be to start a web server and block indefinitely
07:00	raek	but executing alter-var-root to register a plugin, or something like that, would be perfectly fine, IMHO
07:09	goodieboy	raek: ok thanks!
07:35	casperc	hello
07:37	casperc	Is there any way to sort a map by more than one than one key with each key having it's own function to compare by?
07:39	casperc	it seems easy when the values are numeric, but how do I do it if they are not numeric and needs a custom sorting?
07:41	sattvik	casperc: Well, a map can only have one key for each value, but it can be anything you want.
07:41	sattvik	You can set the method to sort the map by building it using (sorted-map-by)
07:41	casperc	sattvik: sorry, i meant a list of maps :)
07:42	sattvik	Ah, well then you can use sort-by, and provide a comparator.
07:43	casperc	like this [{:foo "x" :baa "a"} {:foo "y" :bar "b"}], where foo and bar has their own function to sort by (where foo is primary and bar is secondary to sort by)
07:43	sattvik	An easy way to create a comparator is to use the comparator function and pass it a function that will do the comparison
07:44	casperc	sattvik: ah, didn't know that one. That is probably what i need, thanks :)
07:45	sattvik	No problem.
08:09	raek	casperc: juxt is very useful here: ##(sort-by (juxt :foo :bar) [{:foo "x" :baa "a"} {:foo "y" :bar "b"}])
08:09	lazybot	⇒ ({:foo "x", :baa "a"} {:foo "y", :bar "b"})
08:09	raek	you can of course replace :foo and :bar with other functions
08:14	casperc	raek: cool, this just extracts the right keys to sort by though, right? How do I then write the comparator for each key?
08:16	raek	casperc: first, sort-by takes a "key-fn", i.e. a function that takes a value and produces another value used for comparison. this is a little bit different than a comparator function, which takes to values and returns an integer
08:16	raek	you can sort using a comparator too
08:17	raek	to make a key-fn for foo that sorts by the string reversed, do something like this
08:17	raek	(juxt (comp reverse :foo) :bar)
08:18	raek	(comp reverse :foo) extracts the :foo value from the map and then reverses it (assuming it's a string)
08:18	raek	juxt will evaluate some functions "in parallel" with the same arguments, and then make a vector of the results
08:19	raek	and vectors compare the way you want here, i.e. lexicographically
08:19	raek	&(< [1 1 0] [1 2 0])
08:19	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
08:19	raek	&(compare [1 1 0] [1 2 0])
08:19	lazybot	⇒ -1
08:23	casperc	raek: sry, didn't see your messages. Let me just show the solution i arrived at. It works but is not idiomatic probably
08:23	casperc	i have a vector of maps which i need sorted according to two predified orders:
08:23	casperc	(def handling-order ["OPRET", "SKIFT", "OPSIG", "ANNULLER", "GENAABEN", "PROVISIONER", "FLYT", "OVERDRAG", "SKIFT_MODEMAKTIVERINGSKODE", "SKIFT_ANUMMER", "FORTRYD_SKIFT_ANUMMER"])
08:23	casperc	(def fo-ordering ["clear" "dtv" "bb" "mobb" "tlf"])
08:24	casperc	then i wrote a comparator: (defn handling-comparator [x y] (let [x-handling [(.indexOf handling-order (:handling x)) (.indexOf fo-ordering (:fo x))] y-handling [(.indexOf handling-order (:handling y)) (.indexOf fo-ordering (:fo y))]] (compare x-handling y-handling)))
08:24	casperc	then i can sort like this: (sort handling-comparator [{:handling "SKIFT" :fo "clear"} {:handling "OPRET" :fo "dtv"} {:handling "ANNULLER" :fo "tlf"}])
08:27	raek	I would do something like (def handling-order (zipmap ["OPRET" ...] (range))) (def fo-ordering (zipmap ["clear" ...] (range)))
08:27	raek	those vars will then contain maps from strings to integers
08:27	raek	and handling-order can be used as a key-fn
08:28	raek	(sort-by (juxt handling-order fo-ordering) [...])
08:29	raek	casperc: I usually find it easier to work with key-fns instead of comparators
08:29	raek	they are easier to compose
08:29	casperc	raek: yeah, I agree my solution is not very composable :)
08:30	casperc	I'll just give yours a spin
08:30	raek	sorry, the last example is incorrect. it should be: (sort-by (juxt (comp handling-order :handling) (comp fo-ordering :fo)) [...])
08:31	raek	and it's probably wise to split out that key-fn into its own def
08:31	madsy	What's considered best in general? A lot of repeated expressions, or a big let form?
08:32	raek	code duplication should be avoided
08:32	raek	casperc: what language is this? Danish?
08:32	casperc	yeah :)
08:33	achin	This is weird. When I run "lein ring war" now, lein throws an NPE in leiningen.core.main. I'm having trouble debugging this. Any ideas?
08:33	madsy	raek: Yeah, I agree. It's just that all my books emphasize to avoid state. I guess let is okay.
08:33	raek	madsy: what does let has to do with state?
08:34	madsy	raek: Even though the data is immutable, you do store it somewhere as opposed to using functions only.
08:36	raek	I wouldn't consider assign-once variables to be mutation
08:37	raek	madsy: then function parameters would be bad for the same reason
08:38	achin	Ah. Looks like updating to 0.6.6 fixes things.
08:38	raek	madsy: if clojure books say that you should avoid state in calculations, they probably mean that you shouldn't use things like atoms or refs
08:40	madsy	yep
08:46	solussd_	does clojurescript's 'ns' support :use now?
09:18	jroes	so I heard all the cool kids are using clojure
09:18	jroes	thought I would join in
09:23	devn	jroes: welcome!
09:24	fdaoud	jroes: indeed clojure is very cool, hope you like it too.
09:25	jroes	thanks for the welcome :)
09:25	jroes	anything neat you guys are working on?
09:26	michaelr525	hey
09:27	fdaoud	jroes: I'm using it to run a hockey playoff pool at http://www.fdaoud.com/hockey
09:31	jroes	fdaoud: cool. Jimbo is killing it!
09:32	fdaoud	jroes: indeed, and he finished 1st and 2nd in the last two years, too
09:32	jroes	not bad
09:32	fdaoud	jroes: in case you're interested: http://oreillynet.com/pub/e/2273
09:33	jroes	hey, that's pretty cool! I think I might check that out
09:33	fdaoud	yeah, I'm looking forward to it. cemerick is a cool cookie.
09:34	fdaoud	jroes: at the bottom of the pool, Nadia, that's my wife :) She got every single team wrong in the first round, which is just as "difficult" as getting them all right, when you think about it..
09:34	jroes	hahahaha, that's awesome
09:34	jroes	she must be picking all dogs
09:35	fdaoud	well, there were some surprises and some non-surprises.. she really got unlucky
09:35	casperc	raek: sry, just had to leave for a while. Thanks for the help, i'll go with your solution now that I had time to understand it a bit better :)
09:36	jcromartie	this is weird… when I have an org.mozilla.javascript.NativeArray object, Clojure throws lots of "No matching field found" errors when I try to call methods
09:36	jcromartie	this class http://www.docjar.org/docs/api/org/mozilla/javascript/NativeArray.html
09:36	jcromartie	but (.get a 0) says "No matching method found: get for class org.mozilla.javascript.NativeArray"
09:36	jcromartie	that's obviously a real method
09:36	michaelr525	anyone knows how to pprint into a string instead of stdout?
09:36	jcromartie	but Clojure doesn't think so
09:38	joegallo	michaelr525: well, print-str takes whatever you print, and turns it into a string. and pprint prints things prettily...
09:38	joegallo	so, you could (print-str (pprint whatevs))
09:38	joegallo	,(print-str (clojure.pprint/pprint "whatevs"))
09:38	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.pprint>
09:39	joegallo	lies!
09:40	michaelr525	'(user 'clojure.pprint)
09:40	michaelr525	'(use 'clojure.pprint)
09:40	joegallo	itym (use 'clojure.pprint), but i dunno if that works here with the bots.
09:40	joegallo	,(use 'clojure.pprint)
09:40	clojurebot	nil
09:41	joegallo	,(print-str (clojure.pprint/pprint "whatevs"))
09:41	clojurebot	"whatevs"
09:41	clojurebot	"nil"
09:41	joegallo	so it does.
09:41	fdaoud	joegallo: score!
09:41	Bronsa	michaelr525: use with-out-str
09:41	joegallo	heh, yeah, good call Bronsa.
09:41	Bronsa	,(with-out-str (print "derp"))
09:41	clojurebot	"derp"
09:41	Bronsa	joegallo: :)
09:41	joegallo	haven't had any coffee yet today.
09:41	fdaoud	I'm surprised that worked, I thought the bot would have sent you packing joegallo
09:41	Bronsa	hah, another coffee addicted
09:42	michaelr525	thanks with-out-str works great :)
09:46	achin	Does lein support subprojects or modules or something similar?
09:48	fdaoud	Bronsa: mmmm coffeeee
09:50	xeqi	achin: look at checkouts
09:50	achin	xeqi: Thanks.
10:03	michaelr525	what would be a good way to retrieve an element at a specified path from clojure/xml structure?
10:03	michaelr525	something like xpath for clojure i guess
10:04	ambrosebs	does anyone have a Clojure project that could especially benefit from static typing?
10:04	devn	michaelr525: i wrote something really simple that frankly isn't very good
10:04	ambrosebs	looking for examples
10:05	devn	ambrosebs: i dont personally, but my guess is the list would provide a number of answers
10:05	jsabeaudry	How can I go a document.getElementById in clojurescript? (I tried (js/getElementById js/document "myid") and (js/document.getElementById "myid")
10:05	halgari	ambrosebs: I would suggest looking at graphics processing...there's dozens of simple algorithms that work with 2d bitmaps
10:06	halgari	ambrosebs: most of these algorithms will perform horribly if done with boxing, but run quite well when used with static typing.
10:07	devn	michaelr525: https://github.com/devn/yokogiri
10:07	devn	it's really...really nothing fancy, but it works
10:09	jsabeaudry	Ah, (.getElementById js/document "myid") of course!
10:10	ambrosebs	halgari: so using static typing to prove that certain code doesn't get boxed? I hadn't really considered that
10:10	ambrosebs	does the compiler help you write such code atm?
10:12	halgari	ambrosebs: currently the compiler should generate optimal code if you throw the right tags at it.
10:12	halgari	What might be interesting though is that there are two ways to refer to colors. if you use bytes for each pixel then then each element will be 0-255 if you use floats then it's 0-1
10:13	fliebel	ambrosebs: Is typed clojure typed in the sense that java is typed, or just to prove things about your fns?
10:13	halgari	so static typing might be able to help there, you wouldn't be able to throw the wrong pixel info at the wrong algorithm until the type is converted
10:13	ambrosebs	oh right, I'm not looking to affect compilation
10:14	ambrosebs	no it's basically a static type checking phase performed a la carte
10:15	ambrosebs	the plan is to build something as a separate phase, then consider how it might fit in with compilation
10:15	fliebel	ambrosebs: That is, it's for security, not for speed?
10:16	Chousuke	correctness, rather, I guess.
10:16	ambrosebs	fliebel: Basically yes. you could possibly also avoid some runtime assertions
10:16	halgari	ambrosebs: ah! I see, well them my suggestion isn't as broad as you're looking for then.
10:16	Chousuke	from what I can tell, it would be a library for compile time assertions about code. That can be useful for many things
10:16	jimduey	ambrosebs: Re: Conduit. It could use static type checking because you often end up passing around hash-maps.
10:17	jimduey	And if you have missing keys, the errors can be tough to track down
10:17	jimduey	So I was pretty psyched about your efforts. Looking forward to seeing what comes of them.
10:17	ambrosebs	jimduey: would it be possible to convert the hash-maps to Records?
10:18	jimduey	Yep
10:18	ambrosebs	heterogeneous maps are tougher
10:18	ambrosebs	I'm expecting a few style rules:
10:18	ambrosebs	use records over maps
10:18	Chousuke	you could statically check literals at least.
10:18	jimduey	You can actually pass anything you want. Hash maps are just very convenient. Records would be totally doable.
10:19	ambrosebs	only use heterogenous maps over short distnaces (destructuring)
10:19	ambrosebs	Chousuke: yes, that's essential for destructuring and keyword args
10:19	ambrosebs	but in general, it gets really tough
10:26	devasia	whois beepboop
10:38	ambrosebs	fliebel: two of the main goals are to prevent runtime arity exceptions and to eliminate null pointer exceptions
10:38	ambrosebs	it will interesting how far I get with the latter goal.
10:39	madsy	Uh.. has anyone experienced leinigen crashing for no apparent reason?
10:40	madsy	I did a lein search tools.trace and suddenly even starting it with "lein help" crashes.
10:42	bhenry	ping ibdknox
10:43	michaelr525	devn: it should work with xml documents as well?
10:44	bhenry	can i access $this with jayq?
10:46	bhenry	in a click event
10:46	jcromartie	so someone help me understand this: IllegalArgumentException No matching method found: get for class org.mozilla.javascript.NativeArray clojure.lang.Reflector.invokeMatchingMethod (Reflector.java:52)
10:46	jcromartie	for (.get a 0)
10:47	jcromartie	a is a NativeArray, and "get" is definitely a method of NativeArray taking an integer as its only argument
10:47	jcromartie	as indicated by http://www.docjar.org/docs/api/org/mozilla/javascript/NativeArray.html
10:48	jcromartie	err, these docs are better http://marianoguerra.com.ar/docs/rhino-1-7R3/org/mozilla/javascript/NativeArray.html
10:48	jcromartie	it's supposed to implement java.util.List but Clojure doesn't believe it
10:48	jcromartie	http://marianoguerra.com.ar/docs/rhino-1-7R3/org/mozilla/javascript/NativeArray.html#get(int)
10:49	jtoy	is it ok to do nested lets ?
10:49	madsy	jtoy: sure
10:50	madsy	jtoy: But if your function grows so big as to need more than one scope, maybe consider splitting it up.
10:51	jcromartie	and every time I use a method like .get it yields a reflection warning, too
10:53	jcromartie	hm, so (.get a 0 a), which is get(int index, Scriptable start), seems to work, but not just get(int index)
10:53	raek	jcromartie: it looks like the get method takes two parameters (in addition to the instance)
10:53	raek	(.get array index start)
10:54	jcromartie	raek: yeah, I just discovered that works, but it's supposed to implement other interfaces
10:54	jcromartie	i.e. java.util.List
10:54	jcromartie	but (isa? a java.util.List) is false… hmm
10:55	raek	jcromartie: use instance? here
10:55	jcromartie	hm
10:55	raek	isa? checks the relationship of two types
10:55	jcromartie	false
10:56	jcromartie	however, the source code clearly says it implements List https://github.com/mozilla/rhino/blob/master/src/org/mozilla/javascript/NativeArray.java
10:56	raek	in the first javadoc you linked it doesn't implement java.uti.List
10:56	raek	maybe that interface was implemented in a later version
10:58	jcromartie	maybe
10:59	jcromartie	it was added 2 years ago in source
10:59	madsy	Hm. So leiningen crashed due to a non-working jar. Doesn't org.clojure/tools.trace 0.7.3 work with Clojure 1.3?
11:02	jcromartie	damn yeah, it's the main Maven repos
11:02	jcromartie	they only have a release from 2009
11:02	jcromartie	and nobody has ever added the latest from 2011!
11:02	jcromartie	lazy bastards
11:03	jcromartie	and the package name changed
11:04	jcromartie	Googling "maven rhino" yields this artifact, which is outdated: http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/rhino/js while the new one is here http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/org.mozilla/rhino and doesn't really show up in my Googlings
11:05	devn	what's the old name for the io portion of contrib? duck...
11:07	dakrone	devn: duck-streams I believe
11:07	redinger	definitely duck-streams
11:08	devn	ah right, thanks
11:14	raek	devn: at one point there were two: clojure.contrib.duck-streams and clojure.contrib.io
11:16	S11001001	duck-streams sounds cooler than io
11:16	antares_	madsy: see https://github.com/clojure/tools.trace
11:18	madsy	antares_: I did. It says it should work with Clojure 1.3. No idea what the issue is then.
11:19	madsy	Leiningen tries to download it from maven, then crashed with a zip archive exception
11:19	antares_	madsy: can you gist stack trace?
11:20	S11001001	madsy: rm -rf ~/.m2/repository/org/clojure/tools.trace
11:21	madsy	S11001001: I already deleted the jar. Redownloading it made no difference.
11:23	jtoy	can someone help me with this logic : http://pastebin.ca/2142919 I'm not quite sure what I'm doing wrong
11:27	joegallo	jtoy: ((.close (:body resp))
11:27	madsy	antares_: https://gist.github.com/2568726
11:28	joegallo	that looks an awful lot like you're invoking the result of a java method as if the result were a clojure function.
11:28	joegallo	a double opening paren is a rarish thing in clojure, typically.
11:28	joegallo	might not be the problem at hand, of course.
11:29	Raynes	Yeah, no way that can actually work.
11:29	antares_	madsy: looks like one of the .jar files is broken (is empty)
11:29	madsy	yep
11:29	jtoy	joegallo: oh, i had a do in there, got lost somehow
11:29	antares_	madsy: but it happens to be at leiningen.plugin$install$fn__3241.invoke(plugin.clj:63)
11:29	antares_	madsy: can it be one of your plugins? is this with lein2?
11:30	madsy	No, lein 1.7.1
11:30	madsy	And I only have swank-clojure installed, nothing else
11:44	madsy	antares_: Sorry, I was being an idiot
11:50	wkmanire	Gooooooooooooood mrning.
11:59	fmn	Can I limit the stack, let's say during unit tests to assert that it won't blow up after refactoring?
12:00	wkmanire	fmn: You want to set an artificial stack size limit?
12:00	fmn	Yes
12:00	wkmanire	That's an interesting idea.
12:00	wkmanire	So you can assert that you've achieved tail-call optimization?
12:01	fmn	Precisely
12:01	wkmanire	I have no idea how you would do that.
12:01	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
12:01	S11001001	give it unbounded input and fail if your program ever finishes
12:01	S11001001	I think there's an algorithm you can use to tell that
12:02	TimMc	haha
12:05	robnik	anyone here working with clojurescript? I'm about to port a GWT app and wondering if it works the same way as far as having some .clj files that are compiled to both JVM and JS. ?
12:06	robnik	In GWT you have 3 kinds of java code: server, client, shared.
12:06	creese	has anyone posted the link to the webcast already?
12:06	fdaoud	creese: http://oreillynet.com/pub/e/2273
12:07	creese	I'm already signed up. Just wanted to make sure it had been mentioned in the channel.
12:08	fdaoud	creese: I mentioned it earlier to someone..
12:08	creese	I just ordered his book. Haven't got it yet.
12:08	fdaoud	I got fed up of delays and got the ebook instead
12:09	creese	http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
12:09	creese	by far the best resource I have found yet
12:09	fdaoud	nice!
12:12	ibdknox	bhenry: you use (this-as me ... (css me ..))
12:15	bhenry	ibdknox: is this-as in core?
12:16	ibdknox	bhenry: yeah, it's a macro
12:16	ibdknox	bhenry: and by core you mean cljs.core, right?
12:16	bhenry	sweet. yeah
12:16	bhenry	thanks. i'll give it a shot.
12:18	madsy	Yay, found my bug thanks to tools.trace
12:20	bhenry	ibdknox: thanks again. it's just what i needed.
12:20	ibdknox	bhenry: np
12:20	jsabeaudry	How to transform 3 in :3 ?
12:21	jsabeaudry	I cant remember the bot command to ask this
12:21	dnolen	,(keyword (str 3))
12:21	clojurebot	:3
12:21	jsabeaudry	dnolen, thank you good sir
12:22	fliebel	But what is the command to ask lazybot to return a function that does what you want?
12:23	fliebel	$findfn 1 1 2
12:23	lazybot	[clojure.core/+ clojure.core/unchecked-add clojure.core/+' clojure.core/unchecked-add-int clojure.core/bit-shift-left]
12:23	fliebel	that one
12:23	mdeboard	&(keyword 3)
12:23	lazybot	⇒ nil
12:23	mdeboard	huh
12:23	mdeboard	why is it thus, dnolen
12:23	fliebel	$doc +'
12:24	mdeboard	I guess keyword just requires a string type arg
12:24	dnolen	,(doc keyword)
12:24	clojurebot	"([name] [ns name]); Returns a Keyword with the given namespace and name. Do not use : in the keyword strings, it will be added automatically."
12:24	dnolen	mdeboard: yes, keyword expects strings.
12:24	fliebel	what is +' ?
12:24	dnolen	fliebel: autopromoting +
12:25	fliebel	&(doc +')
12:25	lazybot	⇒ "([] [x] [x y] [x y & more]); Returns the sum of nums. (+) returns 0. Supports arbitrary precision. See also: +"
12:25	fliebel	(doc +")
12:25	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string>
12:25	mdeboard	I appreciate the dearth of type coercion in Clojure.
12:25	fliebel	(doc +'')
12:25	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
12:27	fliebel	dnolen: To BigInt? Because + already promotes ints to long, right? At least, I thought unsafe-add did not do that.
12:28	dnolen	fliebel: + isn't about promotion.
12:28	mdeboard	Is there a command for the repl to output the source of a fn?
12:29	dnolen	mdeboard: there is, but it's easier to just use lein2
12:29	fdaoud	,(source +)
12:29	clojurebot	Source not found
12:29	fliebel	dnolen: What is it about then?
12:30	dnolen	fliebel: checked arithmetic on 64 bit primitives.
12:32	fliebel	checked, promoting... confused So... checked math does what when something overflows? I thought it promoted in that case, but maybe it just raises an exception?
12:32	dnolen	fliebel: exception
12:32	fliebel	aha
12:33	fliebel	not sure why I would want an exception, as opposed to just promoting or overflowing.
12:34	dnolen	fliebel: this is a 2 year old conversation perf
12:36	mdeboard	dnolen: Before I tell someone wrong, are you the author of core.logic
12:36	fliebel	dnolen: ?
12:36	dnolen	mdeboard: yes, though to be clear it's an implementation of an existing system for Scheme - miniKanren.
12:37	dnolen	fliebel: performance
12:39	ibdknox	woah
12:39	ibdknox	did you guys see this: http://int3.github.com/doppio/about.html
12:39	fdaoud	dnolen: as in The Reasoned Schemer?
12:39	dnolen	fdaoud: yes.
12:42	ibdknox	no one has something to say about the JVM implemented in CoffeeScript? :p
12:42	dnolen	ibdknox: seemed wacky and not useful?
12:42	ibdknox	neat, nonetheless
12:42	fdaoud	Java 4?
12:42	technomancy	ibdknox: we're all just trying to avoid the yo dawg jokes
12:42	ibdknox	technomancy: haha
12:42	fdaoud	that's so 1999
12:49	TimMc	fdaoud: nope
12:50	TimMc	That would be... Java v1.2, I think?
12:50	TimMc	I remember because that's when I learned Java. :-)
12:51	fdaoud	TimMc: whatever :) That's so 2002.
12:57	Raynes	ibdknox: This is me berating you about lein-noir for metajack.
12:57	Raynes	Go write things and do stuff.
13:00	hcumberdale	damn!
13:00	hcumberdale	computer defect
13:05	jroes	everyone here checking out this clojure intro webcast? :)
13:07	Mordus	Is anyone using Vaadin from Clojure?
13:07	solussd_	jayq question: how do I kick off an 'anim' animation when some event happens to some element, e.g. can I bind a function that kicks off an animation? What would that look like? '
13:07	creese	jroes: yes
13:08	creese	looking forward to seeing the tools setup
13:09	Raynes	~anyone
13:09	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
13:10	Mordus	Looking for opinions on the use of Vaadin from Clojure, and stories based on people's experience with it. Thinking of trying it out for a project.
13:16	fliebel	Mordus: I think the usual Java XML inheritance boilerplate will leak trough, but otherwise it looks nice.
14:11	scottj_	Mordus: looks cool so long as heavy server resources per user and latency aren't a problem (enterprise apps).
14:27	hcumberdale	anyone know what small noiseless computer to buy?
14:27	qu1j0t3	for what
14:27	robertstuttaford	hello, are there any clojurescript adepts here?
14:28	austinh	~anyone
14:28	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
14:29	robertstuttaford	ok. can i have clojurescript generate an externs for all the exported symbols in the source?
14:29	robertstuttaford	i want to load in a cljs js binary as a module into an existing gclosure codebase
14:30	dnolen	robertstuttaford: that would be a nice feature to add to the Closure bit of CLJS. :emit-externs flag or something like that.
14:30	robertstuttaford	ad to do that i need to extern it so that the gcl base knows not to minify the bridging symbols
14:31	ibdknox	it's a problem I'll need to solve eventually
14:31	robertstuttaford	i figure since the exports are metadata, there must be some niftacular way of adding em all up?
14:31	robertstuttaford	aside: i'm a clojure newb. haven't written a damn thing yet. still reading the new Programming Clojure book.
14:33	robertstuttaford	very excited by ClojureScript One, although the module i would like to write is the backend + client-side api for same, which'll probably only use bits and pieces found in One
14:34	cemerick	Well, that was hell.
14:34	robertstuttaford	has anyone produced cljs apps that are broken up in this manner? using symbol exports + externs
14:34	scottj_	hcumberdale: macbook air
14:35	dnolen	robertstuttaford: a simple way would be to regex out goog.exportSymbol(...) after basic compilation.
14:35	ibdknox	scottj_: totally not silent
14:35	dmi3y	cemerick: thanks for the webcast, well done
14:35	cemerick	So, if you were in the O'Reilly webcast just now, I apologize for me stuffing the thing.
14:35	dnolen	robertstuttaford: a better way would be to augment the compiler - patch welcome.
14:35	robertstuttaford	dnolen: sure thing. lemme just get 3-6 months of clojure under my belt, first
14:36	scottj_	ibdknox: oh my bad, I thought Linus had one in large part because it was quiet.
14:37	robertstuttaford	i asked this on the ggroup as well, but since you're here :-) any plans for the compiler to instrument the interim js with jsdoc annotations? those really help with producing a faster, tighter advanced-mode js binary
14:37	samaaron	cemerick: you didn't stuff it - it rocked
14:37	ibdknox	scottj_: it's got a fan, so if you do anything hefty with it, it'll take flight ;)
14:37	dnolen	robertstuttaford: ;) you probably don't need that much time. CLJS compiler is not nearly as scary as it sounds still only ~3000 lines of code.
14:37	samaaron	although i think you threw a couple of people with the ref
14:37	JustinCampbell	@cemerick figured it out, problem was ab sucks ;)
14:37	JustinCampbell	siege worked great
14:37	samaaron	and your weird pronunciation of leiningen
14:37	samaaron	:-)
14:37	cemerick	JustinCampbell: oh, apachebench :-)
14:37	cemerick	cool
14:37	JustinCampbell	ya
14:38	dnolen	robertstuttaford: no one's working on that at the moment.
14:38	fdaoud	cemerick: nice presentation and I admire your courage of doing it unrehearsed!
14:38	cemerick	samaaron: gah, it was super when I did my dry run, and then I decided to swap out a couple of things and confused myself all to hell. Bad move.
14:38	scottj_	hcumberdale: raspberry pi maybe, I don't see a fan on wikipedia. doesn't get much smaller than that.
14:38	cemerick	fdaoud: I did a dry run, but stupidly changed things for the real deal.
14:38	samaaron	cemerick: it's all part of the learning process
14:38	robertstuttaford	i'm so unhappy i was unable to watch that 'cast, cemerick. i'm so totally the target market
14:38	robertstuttaford	was it recorded?
14:39	samaaron	cemerick: you motivated your ref with arguments that also apply to atoms
14:39	cemerick	robertstuttaford: should be
14:39	fdaoud	cemerick: that's ok, I have respect for people who don't pretend like everything always works perfectly.
14:39	samaaron	still, i think it was a drop in the ocean
14:39	samaaron	it was a great presentation overall
14:40	scottj_	first keynote of railsconf is up, so maybe rich's is close behind.
14:40	cemerick	well, lesson #1 is: just copy/paste the code, and focus on the explanation
14:40	fdaoud	I was just wondering why eclipse was giving you that one red X at the top, throughout
14:40	robertstuttaford	cemerick: i don't see anything about it on the page. will you tweet about it when you find out?
14:40	cemerick	robertstuttaford: certainly
14:41	robertstuttaford	wicked. btw, LOVING your book. first FP book i can actually read
14:41	robertstuttaford	kudos. seriously.
14:42	qu1j0t3	robertstuttaford: which book is this?
14:42	robertstuttaford	right-hand side of http://cemerick.com/
14:42	robertstuttaford	http://www.clojurebook.com/
14:43	qu1j0t3	robertstuttaford: which books did you find opaque?
14:43	robertstuttaford	cemerick: your decision to include the practicums was a wise one. i've plenty web experience with all the languages, bad and good. it's nice to be able to read some theory and then switch over to see that theory in practice in a space i'm comfy with
14:44	scottj_	cemerick: one thing I like about the pricing of your book on amazon is that it's just enough to get free shipping. it's always annoying when books end up at $24 and you have to either pay $5 shipping or find another item to get over the bump.
14:45	cemerick	fdaoud: because I had the Clojure builder on while there was an error, but turned it off before I fixed it.
14:45	robertstuttaford	qu1j0t3: i've tried to read online tuts for haskell and erlang and those just left me wondering just how stupid i actually am. i got about half way through The Little Schemer, which i actually quite enjoy, and will attack again soon
14:45	cemerick	scottj_: tragically, we have no control at all over the book's pricing. :-)
14:45	qu1j0t3	robertstuttaford: TLS has a good rep. Did you try SICP, btw?
14:45	creese	cemerick: great talk
14:46	cemerick	creese: you are too kind :-)
14:46	robertstuttaford	i think i was also finally ready for it. um, i have SICP. haven't tried it, yet
14:46	cemerick	robertstuttaford: I'm glad you're liking it. :-)
14:46	ibdknox	cemerick: it's a very hard medium, I hated doing screencasts
14:47	robertstuttaford	it's a little frustrating because i'm only at chapter 4 and i'm having to accept that i don't know how atoms or refs or multimethods or macros work yet and still puzzle out what's going on in the code i'm reading everywhere
14:47	qu1j0t3	robertstuttaford: there are some non-lisp books that are pretty approachable, too. I like ML For the Working Programmer, Applicative High Order Programming, and Henderson's Functional Programming Application and Implementation. -- though I have finished none of them yet, they cover a lot of ground.
14:47	robertstuttaford	but i'll get there. having fun
14:47	qu1j0t3	robertstuttaford: SICP is very rewarding, but I am only in Ch.2.
14:48	robertstuttaford	thanks for the recommends, qu. i'll add them to the list
14:50	cemerick	ibdknox: My screencasts rarely involve me coding, and even those I do multiple takes on. Programming and talking at the same time is clearly not a good idea. :-P
14:51	cemerick	I should have talked while I did my (very clean) dry run last night, so I could see just how rough it was going to be.
14:51	technomancy	if anyone is looking for an easy way to contribute to Leiningen we've got a bunch of issues tagged "newbie" that should be pretty accessible: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues?direction=desc&labels=&milestone=4&sort=created&state=open
14:52	ibdknox	cemerick: I'm sure you did fine. :) But yeah, I learned that the hard way a couple of times. Never code in front of people unless you're willing to practice the hell out of it. Most of the time it's better to just make the code magically appear :)
14:52	robertstuttaford	i quite like watching folks code. you learn a whole bunch, generally speaking
14:52	ibdknox	cemerick: the only way it works is if you have don't have to think about the code at all
14:53	ibdknox	robertstuttaford: absolutely, it's just very hard to give a coherent presentation at the same time
14:53	robertstuttaford	true :)
14:53	ibdknox	you literally have to make it automatic
14:53	cemerick	ibdknox: my biggest problem is that my dry run included compojure the whole way through, but I decided at the last minute to talk in detail about ring. Of course, what happens when you return a string from an unadorned ring hander? :-x
14:54	ibdknox	cemerick: haha
14:54	cemerick	I was pretty thrown from there on out.
14:54	creese	I thought the talk was very useful. I've seen enough power points.
14:54	robertstuttaford	+++ OUT OF CHEESE ERROR +++ ?
14:54	cemerick	Figured it out, but…sheesh.
14:54	cemerick	robertstuttaford: exactly that.
14:54	cemerick	:-)
14:54	robertstuttaford	-chuckle-
14:54	ibdknox	cemerick: yeah.. that happened to me in a keynote once
14:54	ibdknox	fucking VB
14:54	ibdknox	lol
14:54	cemerick	Then I look over and three people in the chat room are yelling DUDE YOU NEED A RESPONSE MAP!
14:56	robertstuttaford	good luck with lighttable, ibdknox. looking forward to seeing where you end up
14:56	ibdknox	robertstuttaford: thanks :)
14:56	shadowh511	ibdknox: areyou the lighttable dev?
14:56	ibdknox	yep
14:56	shadowh511	:D
14:56	madsy	ibdknox: I wonder, how are you going to make the instant-feedback work with other languages than clojure? (and maybe javascript)
14:57	shadowh511	I'm really excited for it
14:57	ibdknox	madsy: live evaling code is pretty straightforward
14:57	shadowh511	hell, I should donate
14:57	ibdknox	madsy: given a dynamic runtime
14:57	shadowh511	how far are you from the goal?
14:57	ibdknox	76% of the way there
14:57	robertstuttaford	i kinda blame you for tipping the balance on my decision to go clojure. that video was really interesting, it got me curious. then i discovered cljs and its relation to gclosure (i'm around 8kloc into a gclosure base now .. yick), and then the HackerNews post about the new Programming Clojure book landed like a day later
14:58	cemerick	robertstuttaford: which video?
14:58	ibdknox	I have a couple of very neat things I'm working on to show before it closes, so I think I shouldn't have too much issue pushing it over
14:58	robertstuttaford	the lighttable one
14:58	madsy	ibdknox: Care to explain? It sounds a bit scary if you use it on accident on some code that writes to network/files or something else.
14:58	cemerick	ah
14:58	madsy	by*
14:58	cemerick	robertstuttaford: well, when things go pear-shaped, you need to talk to ibdknox then. ;-)
14:58	madsy	I thought maybe you could read clojures metadata for that, but what do I know.
14:59	robertstuttaford	i guess seeing the live values moving through the clojure code in the vid turned a light on somewhere
14:59	ibdknox	madsy: it won't be on for everything, you'll have to opt in - just like you would for executing code in a repl
14:59	robertstuttaford	cemerick: noted :)
14:59	ibdknox	madsy: that particular notion isn't perfect for everything, that's for sure
14:59	madsy	ibdknox: So you could for example opt-in by setting a metadata variable?
14:59	madsy	Because that was my first impression
14:59	madsy	Mark code as safe/unsafe
14:59	technomancy	yeah, I was thinking about implementing it using metadata to provide seed values
14:59	ibdknox	madsy: there are a whole host of potential solutions there
14:59	madsy	ok
14:59	ibdknox	technomancy: yeah
15:00	robertstuttaford	how does ClojureOne get the live page changes right if cljs doesn't support eval?
15:00	ibdknox	technomancy: I was thinking of annotating something so that you could say "instead of executing provide this value"
15:00	technomancy	annotating defns?
15:00	ibdknox	technomancy: yep
15:01	technomancy	like a pre-memoization?
15:01	emezeske	cemerick: Hey, did you happen to see my pull request for friend? I'm curious if you have any thoughts.
15:01	ibdknox	more like a mock I think
15:01	shadowh511	ibdknox: lighttable will have a linux binary, yes?
15:01	ibdknox	yeah
15:01	technomancy	ibdknox: oh sure; I've done that
15:01	cemerick	emezeske: I did; it's in a browser tab, so it shouldn't be long now ;-)
15:01	ibdknox	technomancy: that up somewhere? :)
15:01	technomancy	ibdknox: http://technomancy.us/141
15:01	shadowh511	ibdknox: as soon as I get home, I will donate
15:02	emezeske	cemerick: Haha, so I'm not the only one that has a bunch of tabs as my todo list? :)
15:02	cemerick	emezeske: oh, actually: those "unused" bindings in authenticate are there for documentation, as workflows and such are expected to use them :-)
15:02	ibdknox	technomancy: cool
15:02	ibdknox	alright, gotta run
15:02	technomancy	I don't think I ever used it though
15:02	ibdknox	Going to go talk to David Pollack :)
15:03	ibdknox	minus the c
15:03	emezeske	cemerick: Oh? I can undo that. They never get passed into the workflow function, though, or do they?
15:03	shadowh511	be back later guys
15:03	cemerick	emezeske: the entire authentication config is added as a key to request maps
15:04	emezeske	cemerick: Ahh, gotcha, makes sense, I will just amend that commit
15:04	cemerick	thanks
15:05	emezeske	cemerick: One other question I had -- in workflows.clj, is it right to refer to e.g. ::friend/workflow instead of :friend/workflow?
15:05	emezeske	cemerick: I'm trying to figure out how they differ.
15:05	cemerick	yes
15:05	fdaoud	cemerick: just to add to the fun, and totally not your fault but still distracting, when you showed your screen the first time, a ton of people started screaming that it wasn't working, and then it was mentioned that IE and FF (but not chrome) were supported, and it was using flash, and... I braced myself for the whole thing to go to <...> !
15:06	cemerick	,(require '[clojure.set :as set])
15:06	clojurebot	nil
15:06	cemerick	heh, cook
15:06	cemerick	,(namespace ::set/foo)
15:06	clojurebot	"clojure.set"
15:06	cemerick	,(namespace :set/foo)
15:06	clojurebot	"set"
15:06	cemerick	emezeske: ^^
15:06	emezeske	cemerick: Ahh, so it makes sure the namespace is fully qualified
15:06	cemerick	yes
15:06	emezeske	cemerick: Thank you, easy explanation
15:07	emezeske	cemerick: I need to file bug reports with kibit and eastwood, which blow up upon seeing those
15:07	cemerick	fdaoud: heh, you should see what the speaker side of things looks like :-O
15:08	fdaoud	cemerick: eek!
15:08	fdaoud	doesn't sound, er, stress-free
15:10	emezeske	cemerick: I amended the commit.
15:10	cemerick	fdaoud: FF only AFAICT, flash, and translucent applets for screen sharing. :-P
15:11	emezeske	cemerick: FYI, I've built a very nice login system on top of friend, with login throttling and password recovery. It was pretty easy to do!
15:11	fdaoud	cemerick: was your CPU usage through the roof?
15:11	samaaron	cemerick: does the speaker side of things look different???
15:11	lazybot	samaaron: Oh, absolutely.
15:12	cemerick	lazybot: botsnack
15:12	lazybot	cemerick: Thanks! Om nom nom!!
15:12	cemerick	That was the best lazybot response I've ever seen.
15:12	samaaron	haha
15:12	samaaron	lazybot: botsnack
15:12	lazybot	samaaron: Thanks! Om nom nom!!
15:12	cemerick	fdaoud: No; it was smooth enough, just lots of knobs, pipes, and widgets.
15:12	cemerick	I think the main console accidentally wafted into the screen sharing near the end.
15:13	fdaoud	cemerick: yes it did
15:13	amalloy	emezeske: there's not much eastwood and kibit can do about ::foo/bar
15:14	amalloy	it's a token that the reader will only process if you're actually compiling/executing the namespace - it's meaningful only in context of a namespace. if you just read the source-code forms it doesn't work
15:15	amalloy	haha cemerick, i'm glad you like the ??? plugin. i added it because questions that end with ?? usually get answered with a "no", but i added the positive ???-endings for symmetry
15:15	jonasen	amalloy: I think ::foo/bar will work in eastwood
15:15	jonasen	but not in kibit
15:15	amalloy	jonasen: i don't remember, do you (or rather analyze) actually execute the forms as you read them, or just read?
15:15	cemerick	Is amalloy awesome???
15:15	lazybot	cemerick: Yes, 100% for sure.
15:16	jonasen	analyze requires the namespace
15:16	samaaron	amalloy is awesome except for the part of his life where he ate a whole pint of bacon
15:17	amalloy	yes, a more superlative word than awesome is necessary for that
15:17	emezeske	amalloy: I see, interesting.
15:17	fdaoud	I thought he shared some of that bacon.
15:17	amalloy	i did!
15:17	samaaron	fdaoud: perhaps he pretended to..
15:17	amalloy	would it be at all polite to eat the WHOLE thing in front of such a crowd of nice guys??
15:17	lazybot	amalloy: Definitely not.
15:18	amalloy	clojurebot: bacon is <reply> Thanks! Om nom -- error: emotion overload
15:18	clojurebot	c'est bon!
15:18	lynaghk	dnolen: ping.
15:18	dnolen	lynaghk: pong
15:19	lynaghk	dnolen: do you have any experience with FRTime?
15:19	dnolen	hmm not really why?
15:19	lynaghk	dnolen: it's a reactive dataflow evaluator for scheme
15:19	dnolen	yeah
15:19	lynaghk	dnolen: I'm considering porting it to Clojure/ClojureScript. To show up those meteor folks =P
15:19	dnolen	cool!
15:20	lynaghk	dnolen: except I'm in no way qualified or familiar with any of that stuff, so I was hoping I could mention it and you'd pull it out of your hat some evening
15:21	lynaghk	dnolen: in all seriousness though, I'm worried that performance would be really hard to nail down on something like that
15:22	dnolen	lynaghk: why, isn't that mostly chaining functions together?
15:23	dnolen	lynaghk: porting FrTime would be cool, but you probably want to look at RxJS too.
15:23	lynaghk	dnolen: there is a lot of lifting (converting regular immutable objects into behaviors), so I'd be worried about GC churn
15:23	lynaghk	dnolen: yeah, I looked into that a bit too (though not the implementation details yet)
15:24	dnolen	lynaghk: I don't see why you would create anymore GC events than RxJS if done properly.
15:25	lynaghk	devil is in that last part.
15:25	halgari	lynaghk: have you seen the talk Stuart Sierra gave on Rx in Clojure? (http://vimeo.com/18970727)
15:25	dnolen	lynaghk: yes, it's informative building a CLJS library with an eye for perf, it requires just a little bit more consideration up front.
15:26	lynaghk	halgari: I haven't, thanks!
15:26	shadowh511	umm, would clojure be affected by the oracle "copyrights" on the java API?
15:26	shadowh511	kuz jython and jruby might be affected by it
15:26	shadowh511	http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/05/01/1828247/oracle-and-the-end-of-programming-as-we-know-it
15:27	Chousuke	hmm, that would be weird
15:27	dnolen	lynaghk: often it just means being a little more careful about critical fns, for example https://github.com/clojure/core.logic/blob/master/src/main/clojure/cljs/core/logic.cljs#L111
15:27	Chousuke	if it were the case, then every java library would be affected as well
15:27	dnolen	lynaghk: notice that I avoid higher level functions, I use direct property access, and I make liberal use of identical?
15:27	robertstuttaford	ok so i'm probably going to start with building a simple json rest service in clojure. i'm thinking i should use compojure for routing and friend for auth, monger for database access and i believe json is natively supported?
15:28	shadowh511	wouldn't that effectively kill Java and make the IP worthless?
15:28	dnolen	lynaghk: I remember correctly all those things added up to a 10X boost, assq gets called all the time.
15:28	qu1j0t3	shadowh511: that appears to be Oracle's intention in most things.
15:28	shadowh511	qu1j0t3: they want to make their IP worthless?
15:29	qu1j0t3	that's what i conclude from their actions since buying Sun, yes.
15:29	qu1j0t3	but ymmv
15:29	shadowh511	ymmv?
15:29	qu1j0t3	your mileage may vary
15:29	shadowh511	ah
15:30	kovasb	lynaghk: ping
15:30	lynaghk	dnolen: good tip. The perf of such a library depends on two orthogonal parts: the DOM manipulation/traversal (the actual DOM and its representation in cljs) and the dataflow graph traversal to see when things need to get updated.
15:30	lynaghk	kovasb: pong.
15:31	dnolen	lynaghk: yes, don't be afraid of custom data structures for the critical parts. CLJS abstractions are nice, but they aren't free.
15:32	kovasb	lynaghk: i think I'm ready to rock some c2 in my project
15:33	kovasb	lynaghk: got a bare bones thing working, https://github.com/kovasb/session
15:33	lynaghk	dnolen: yeah, thats what this really comes down to---do I want to get a general, FRTime like thing that automatically lifts and does dataflow calculations, or should I come up with yet-another-DSL/framework that covers 90% of use cases in a performant way.
15:34	michaelr525	what's the best way to go from {:a 1 :b 2} into {:a :some1 :b :some2}?
15:34	lynaghk	kovasb: "class not found session.server" I'm on lein2
15:35	kovasb	lynaghk: ok, haven't tested it with lein2.. will take a look
15:35	michaelr525	map?
15:35	clojurebot	map and the other sequence functions used to be lazy, but with the advent of chunked sequences, may or may not be lazy, consult your local ouija board
15:35	michaelr525	or maybe something else?
15:35	lynaghk	kovasb: okay, it's just a source path thing then. lein1 works fine.
15:35	kovasb	lynaghk dnolen: my conclusion with frp stuff is that data flow isn't enough. you need to know the deltas
15:36	kovasb	lynaghk dnolen: esp since dealing with collection updates is maybe the most common perf bottleneck
15:36	lynaghk	kovasb: doesn't that just mean you are relying on mutable state outside of your dataflow system?
15:36	emezeske	michaelr525: A decent way: (into {} (for [[k v] m] [k (f v)]))
15:36	lynaghk	kovasb: oh, if it's for performance that's understandable.
15:37	dnolen	lynaghk: btw, did you see rhickey's reduce lib changes?
15:37	dnolen	lynaghk: that should be a big win for CLJS too.
15:37	michaelr525	emezeske: thanks!
15:37	kovasb	lynaghk: yes. i think thats gonna happen anyway (your models are mutable state, even if wrapped in a atom or whatever)
15:38	lynaghk	dnolen: I saw him in the channel yesterday but I didn't exactly grok what was going on. It will provide perf benefits for anything that uses reduce?
15:38	kovasb	lynaghk: updating graphics is a great thought experiment. much of the time you are updating color, position rather than creating new objects
15:38	dnolen	lynaghk: map/filter become reduce combinators.
15:39	dnolen	lynaghk: basically allocation free pipelines - less GC churn and likely a very a big performance boost.
15:39	dnolen	(reduce + some-vector) - allocation free.
15:39	lynaghk	dnolen: okay. boss =) Does someone need to port the reduce lib to cljs.core?
15:39	dnolen	lynaghk: mmarczyk working on it.
15:39	lynaghk	dnolen: he's a machine.
15:39	dnolen	man totally!
15:40	lynaghk	kovasb: have you seen ymacs?
15:40	kovasb	lynaghk: yeah, but i thought it was left for dead until that recent update
15:41	LauJensen	Evening gents
15:41	kovasb	lynaghk: i'm not gonna try to solve the code editor problem, other people are on that :)
15:41	lynaghk	kovasb: oh man, I didn't even know there was a recent update. That is the only in-browser code editor I'd consider using
15:41	lynaghk	since I am addicted to emacs.
15:42	lynaghk	kovasb: yeah, but isn't that going to be a blocking problem for anyone to use something like session?
15:42	kovasb	lynaghk: haha yeah. IMHO a repl is a radically different beast than a code editor
15:42	kovasb	lynaghk: its about producing artifacts, not producing code
15:42	lynaghk	I'm not sure what you mean
15:42	kovasb	lynaghk: different use case, different goals
15:42	kovasb	lynaghk: for instance, collaborating on a data analysis problem in realtime
15:43	kovasb	lynaghk: can happen in session, not gonna happen in a code editor
15:43	kij	LauJensen: Hey
15:43	kovasb	lynaghk: producing artifacts means, you create the thing at the repl and hit the publish button, it goes live
15:44	kovasb	lynaghk: writing code means you create some text, and deal with deployment etc in some other set of tools
15:45	lynaghk	kovasb: so it is like a napkin? It's there, you can write little things on it and use it to explain ideas to others?
15:46	kovasb	lynaghk: yeah, I think that is a good analogy
15:46	kovasb	lynaghk: or, like evernote for clojure repl sessions
15:47	kovasb	lynaghk: often i run some sequence of steps, want to save that sequence and come back to it
15:48	lynaghk	kovasb: somehow I'm not surprised to hear that coming from a guy with Mathematica background =)
15:49	kovasb	lynaghk: yeah, it was eye opening to get work done without writing "programs" per se
15:49	kovasb	lynaghk: the idea that you have to write a totally repeatable, general program to get anything done is constricting
15:50	kovasb	lynaghk: sometimes you just want to do some computations with specific data, rather than deal with the general case upfront
15:51	lynaghk	kovasb: yeah, I'm sold on the idea of the REPL.
15:51	kovasb	lynaghk: yeah.. so i just want to make a much more awesome repl then what we have now :)
15:52	lynaghk	kovasb: ping me if c2 gives you any trouble. I'm tidying up the API and cutting an official 0.1.0 release this upcoming Monday
15:54	kovasb	lynaghk: i think i just need to read the source closely to understand the return values and how they get updated
15:54	lynaghk	kovasb: return values of what?
15:55	kovasb	lynaghk: like, how is the final output inserted into the dom?
15:55	kovasb	lynaghk: since I might need to intercept that point
15:55	lynaghk	if you are using the CLJS unify! fn, it calls dom/append!
15:56	kovasb	lynaghk: ideally, I want a hiccup structure
15:56	kovasb	lynaghk: which I then insert myself
15:56	lynaghk	you can pass :enter :update and :exit fns to unify! to examine the DOM nodes and mutate them yourself if necessary (return false to cancel c2's default behavior)
15:56	lynaghk	kovasb: why do you want to insert yourself?
15:56	lynaghk	(also, fyi, all of c2's dom methods take hiccup structures)
15:57	kovasb	lynaghk: they need to go into a specific place (the loop "output")
15:57	lynaghk	Using the unify! fn might not be your best bet. If you just want a clojurescript hiccup compiler though, you can use that.
15:58	kovasb	lynaghk: yea, i have my own hiccup implementation
15:59	lynaghk	the contract of unify! is "I want this seq of data to be mapped to elements that match this CSS selector, according to this fn that transforms each datum to a hiccup structure"
15:59	lynaghk	kovasb: heh, I think we all do now =P
15:59	kovasb	lynaghk: hehe
16:00	kovasb	so I'm looking at the pie.clj example
16:01	kovasb	lynaghk: is all i need to do is take whatever is inside [:svg …] and stuff it into my hiccup function?
16:01	lynaghk	on clj "unify" (no bang) is just "map" with the args reordered. You need to pass the resulting output to hiccup to get an HTML string.
16:01	lynaghk	yeah, there's nothing really to do on the server since there isn't a DOM or interaction.
16:02	kovasb	lynaghk: are there examples in there that have interaction?
16:03	lynaghk	no, there are no cljs examples at the moment
16:03	kovasb	one question on unify! ..
16:03	lynaghk	but if you want updates, just pass unify! an atom containing data, and it will update the DOM whenever the atom changes.
16:04	kovasb	when do the things that match the selector need to exist? presumably at the time it is executed right?
16:04	dnolen	ibdknox: http://www.quora.com/Computer-Programming/Does-Light-Table-the-IDE-proposed-by-Chris-Granger-in-a-current-Kickstarter-project-offer-important-new-advances-for-programmers
16:04	kovasb	lynaghk: ok
16:05	lynaghk	kovasb: the first arg selector is the container. the :selector kwarg arg is optional, and specifies what elements within the container you want to manipulate (defaults to all container children)
16:06	kovasb	lynaghk: cool. will see how far I can get
16:06	lynaghk	kovasb: rad. I'm going to grab some lunch, talk to you later.
16:06	kovasb	lynaghk: later!
16:42	Mordus	How is Vaadin through Clojure? I'm looking for a sanity check on that kind of development before I start a project using it.
16:56	chief_chal	I could not find a #moustache channel, so I'll post my question here, it thats ok.
16:56	chief_chal	How can I pass a url argument to a handler function? For example, in (app ["foo" id] my-handler) how can I get "id" inside "my-handler"?
16:57	raek	chief_chal: you can pass it as an additional parameter: (app ["foo" id] #(my-handler % id))
16:57	chief_chal	Right now I'm ripping :params open and parsing ":uri", but that doesnt seem right
16:58	mmarczyk	dnolen: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-224 -- support for terminating reduce
16:58	raek	another approach is to make my-handler work in two stages
16:58	chief_chal	raek, Oh I should wrap it in an anon funtion with the handler and argument?
16:58	raek	(defn my-handler [id] (fn [request] ...))
16:58	raek	(app ["foo" id] (my-handler id))
16:59	chief_chal	thank you, raek. The moustache docs doc were not clear and I keep forgetting this is just Ring after all =)
16:59	raek	it's just ordinary clojure functions... :-)
17:00	raek	the important thing is that the place (app ["foo" id] <here>) evaluates to a function that takes one argument - the request
17:00	dnolen	mmarczyk: excellent
17:01	chief_chal	raek: right, so I've gotta have two additional handler layers to deal with "id", correct?
17:02	mmarczyk	:-)
17:03	jcromartie	why is "lein repl" less snappy than java -jar clojure.jar
17:03	chief_chal	raek: I'll use the first suggestion, thanks for the help!
17:03	jcromartie	even "rlwrap java -jar ..."
17:03	TimMc	jcromartie: It has to start a second JVM for your 1.3 Clojure.
17:04	technomancy	jcromartie: because it's more complicated to work with your project
17:04	technomancy	dependencies, configuration, etc
17:04	jcromartie	technomancy: not just startup… let me clarify
17:04	jcromartie	when I run a repl from "lein repl", command processing is slower and adds some "flicker" to the line in the terminal
17:04	technomancy	jcromartie: also because in lein 1.x I wrote the repl but didn't use it day to day. in lein 2.x, the repl task is totally rewritten and way better.
17:05	technomancy	jcromartie: but the slowness is caused to some degree by the fact that two processes are involved instead of one
17:05	jcromartie	technomancy: ah, so it's hosting its own repl
17:05	technomancy	jcromartie: anyway if you are a heavy repl user you should definitely try lein 2; it's much better
17:06	jcromartie	oh OK!
17:06	jcromartie	I though I was up to date
17:06	jcromartie	after "lein upgrade"
17:06	technomancy	well lein2 is still in a preview state, so `lein upgrade` doesn't pull it in yet
17:06	technomancy	but it's quite usable
17:06	jcromartie	any tips for updating?
17:07	technomancy	clojurebot: lein upgrade guide?
17:07	TimMc	I've never seen lein1's repl to be anything but snappy.
17:07	clojurebot	lein2 is still in a preview release, but see the upgrade guide: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/wiki/Upgrading
17:07	technomancy	jcromartie: there ya go
17:07	TimMc	jcromartie: What operating system?
17:09	jcromartie	OS X 10.7
17:09	jweiss	is there a clone detection tool for clojure source (to detect copy/pasted code)? trying to show my code has very little compared to another competing codebase in python, but i can only find a tool for python.
17:10	jcromartie	hmm, lein2 repl fails: IllegalArgumentException No enum const class jline.console.Operation.DABBREV_EXPAND
17:10	jcromartie	jline… shudder
17:10	TimMc	jweiss: You want to compare Python and Clojure code?
17:10	technomancy	jcromartie: jline1 is horrible; jline2 is pretty badass
17:11	jcromartie	oh?
17:11	jcromartie	ok
17:11	technomancy	jcromartie: are you running from source or preview3?
17:11	jweiss	TimMc: no, just compare the amount of cloning in one codebase vs the other.
17:11	jcromartie	technomancy: preview3… I think
17:11	jweiss	TimMc: for instance, the other codebase has 45% of it's lines cloned from elsewhere in the code
17:11	jweiss	i want a number for my codebase.
17:12	TimMc	I see!
17:12	technomancy	jcromartie: very strange; same thing if you run it from outside a project?
17:12	jcromartie	yeah I'm outside a project
17:12	technomancy	how about inside?
17:13	jcromartie	now it downloads tools.nrepl
17:13	jcromartie	downloading..
17:15	ibdknox	dnolen: lol thanks for the pointer
17:15	jcromartie	hm, weird
17:15	jcromartie	no luck there
17:15	TimMc	jweiss: How is clone detection defined in Python? Multiple non-empty equal blocks where whitespace has been normalized? What about variable renaming?
17:16	hiredman	also, lines cloned is dumb
17:16	jweiss	TimMc: there's various options to set the minimum block size, minimum difference within the block, etc
17:17	jweiss	hiredman: well, in python it makes more sense than in clojure
17:17	hiredman	http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Decisions-Decisions is a good talk about trade offs, one of them mentioned is DRY and copy and pasted code
17:17	jweiss	i suppose in clojure it could be sexps of a certain # of items
17:18	jweiss	TimMc: i used http://clonedigger.sourceforge.net/ on the python side
17:20	jcromartie	there's also gzip as a crude metric
17:21	jcromartie	tar+gzip your code
17:22	hcumberdale	does anyone know software to push a application server log to a website
17:22	hcumberdale	like "tail -f"
17:22	TimMc	jcromartie: That doesn't help when comparing across languages!
17:22	jcromartie	TimMc: you can compare ratios
17:22	jcromartie	entropy of Python vs entropy of Clojure
17:22	TimMc	Or does it? I don't know, have to think about this...
17:23	jweiss	i don't know i think jcromartie is onto something there
17:24	snamellit	hp
17:24	jcromartie	https://gist.github.com/2571452
17:24	snamellit	hcumberdale: checkout logstash
17:24	clj_newb	Is there a standard way to read a properties file and store into a data-structure?
17:25	jweiss	clj_newb: a java properties file?
17:25	technomancy	clj_newb: (into {} (java.util.Properties.)) works
17:25	technomancy	you'd want to call .load on it first though
17:25	jcromartie	that gist is a shell script to calculate entropy
17:26	jcromartie	find . -name "*.py" \| xargs cat \| entropy.sh
17:26	jweiss	jcromartie: /me tries
17:26	clj_newb	well I meant if there was a standard. As the properties file with extension .clj and format :key value or {key {value1 value2}}
17:26	technomancy	clojurebot: properties \|are\| easy to load into maps: (into {} (doto (java.util.Properties.) (.load (clojure.java.io/reader "stuff.properties"))))
17:26	clojurebot	Alles klar
17:27	clj_newb	thanks technomancy
17:27	technomancy	clj_newb: oh, you mean clojure format? sure; load-file
17:27	technomancy	the above works with java .properties files, but if you can use whatever format you might as well use clojure
17:27	jweiss	jcromartie: what is this entropy command your script refers to? i don't have that
17:29	jcromartie	jweiss: oh it's just itself
17:29	jweiss	jcromartie: ah ok
17:29	jcromartie	yeah sorry, the .sh was for gist language detection
17:30	jweiss	jcromartie: hm, 'mktemp: too few X's in template `entropy''
17:30	Roxxi	Pop quiz! clojure/reduce : scheme/fold :: clojure/??? : scheme/fold-right
17:31	jweiss	jcromartie: oh i see
17:31	weavejester	Roxxi: I don't believe Clojure has a fold-right inbuilt.
17:32	Roxxi	Drat.
17:32	TimMc	Roxxi: Are you reducing over a vector by any chance?
17:33	Roxxi	Indeed. But I need the evaluation to be executed semantically from right to left
17:33	TimMc	Roxxi: rseq
17:33	Roxxi	Ah, clever
17:33	Roxxi	things
17:33	Roxxi	err thanks*
17:33	weavejester	Correct me if I'm wrong, but without TCO doesn't a foldr result in a new item on the stack for each iteration?
17:34	TimMc	weavejester: Even with TCO, yes.
17:34	TimMc	if you're foldring over a linked-list
17:34	weavejester	TimMc: Oh, yes, obviously because it has to be combined each time.
17:34	hiredman	and it would hold on to the head of a lazy-seq
17:35	technomancy	this is why we can't have nice things
17:35	weavejester	So is a foldr ever useful?
17:35	TimMc	No, this is hy we have nice data structures.
17:35	weavejester	Compared to a (comp reduce rseq)
17:35	TimMc	weavejester: When you don't have vector.
17:35	technomancy	weavejester: that'd need to be something like rcomp anyway
17:35	technomancy	which I've often wished for
17:36	mrakan	Is there a way to clear all definitions within a namespace? For instance, if I defined (def a-var 5) and others, I want a-var and the others to no longer exist.
17:36	creese	can someone explain to me why running my code with C-c C-k doesn't result in the repl to see what's been run? Is this a ns problem?
17:36	jweiss	jcromartie: i can't get it to run, mktemp fails and it then forks too many time
17:37	jcromartie	mktemp huh
17:37	jcromartie	I'd add a set -x
17:37	jcromartie	but not sure why mktemp fails… what OS?
17:37	technomancy	creese: that's not how slime works unfortunately
17:37	jweiss	jcromartie: fedora 16. mktemp: too few X's in template `entropy'
17:38	technomancy	creese: but it's best not to keep side-effects in the top-level anyway; better to put it in a defn and run the defn in the repl
17:38	jweiss	apparently the -t option is deprecated, but i get the same error without -t
17:38	creese	that's what I meant. the functions weren't seen
17:38	technomancy	creese: oh, probably in the wrong namespace? C-c M-p
17:38	jcromartie	ah OK
17:38	jcromartie	got it
17:39	jcromartie	jweiss: check the gist now
17:39	jcromartie	https://gist.github.com/2571452
17:40	creese	I think that's what I was missing.
17:41	jweiss	jcromartie: sweet, got 0.14 /me looks up what that means.
17:41	jweiss	that's on the other codebase btw :)
17:44	mrakan	Apparently I can remove a namespace and all of its definitions with 'remove-ns, so that answers my question.
17:55	iwo	hey all, sorry i know this question must get asked daily but can anyone give me a link to some truly up-to-date advice on setting up a clojure development environment?
17:55	shadowh511	iwo: windows or *NIX?
17:55	iwo	linux
17:56	shadowh511	install leinigen
17:56	technomancy	iwo: the getting started wiki on dev.clojure.org isn't bad, but what do you currently use?
17:56	iwo	i'm looking for lein & emacs... plus slime/swank(?)
17:56	iwo	technomancy: i currently use counterclockwise :\|
17:56	technomancy	iwo: the main thing to know about setting up emacs and swank is to only trust the swank-clojure readme rather than stuff you find via google
17:56	mefesto	iwo: http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started+with+Emacs
17:56	technomancy	google WILL lead you astray
17:57	iwo	mefesto: cheers!
17:57	jcromartie	jweiss: /dev/random should yield an entropy of 1.0, while /dev/zero should be 0, meaning (in a nutshell) the higher the ratio, the more important each piece of info is
17:57	iwo	technomancy: yeah, i've tried following a couple of guides in the past, but i always get into 'out-of-date' territory
17:57	jcromartie	jweiss: information entropy is something I will not attempt to explain here, because I'll probably get it wrong :)
17:58	jcromartie	jweiss: but the shortest best explanation from Wikipedia is "a measure of disorder, or more precisely unpredictability"
17:58	iwo	i know things are moving on very fast, always better ways of doing things
17:59	iwo	but i'm still a bit confused about e.g. should i use lein to install _everything_, do i need to use marmalade? etc
18:00	technomancy	you don't really need marmalade anymore if you'd rather install clojure-mode by hand
18:01	technomancy	it doesn't hurt, but it's more complicated
18:01	iwo	i assume if i use clojure-mode, i don't need paredit?
18:01	technomancy	actually you do
18:01	technomancy	there's lots of good stuff in marmalade, but it's not needed for just swank
18:02	amalloy	jcromartie: isn't the mktemp/cat/entropy/rm dance just a complicated way to write: entropy <(cat) ?
18:03	jcromartie	amalloy: is it? I don't know :)
18:03	jcromartie	you're right
18:04	creese	I am trying to use map. (count (first (first x))) does what I want to the first element of the list x. What do put for f in (map f x) to do it to all of them?
18:04	jcromartie	wait, does <(cat) write to a file?
18:04	amalloy	it creates a file, writes the output of cat to it, and then expands to the file's name
18:04	amalloy	probably opened in read-only mode, i'm not sure
18:05	jcromartie	never seen it before, neat
18:05	amalloy	yeah, read-only
18:05	raek	creese: so you want to do (count (first y)) for each y in the list x?
18:05	jcromartie	amalloy: hm, not working on OS X
18:05	creese	I think so
18:05	amalloy	and i guess technically it opens a pipe, not a file
18:06	raek	(map #(count (first %)) the-list)
18:06	raek	or
18:06	raek	(for [y the-list] (count (first y)))
18:06	creese	what are the # and % doing?
18:06	raek	it is a shorthand for an anonymous function literal
18:06	amalloy	jcromartie: works for me on OS X afaict. does the following not work? cat <(echo text goes here)
18:07	raek	the same as (map (fn [y] (count (first y))) the-list)
18:07	raek	creese: map will apply that function on each element and make a sequence of the return values
18:07	creese	that's what I want
18:08	creese	I didn't know I needed an anonymous function
18:08	creese	that's what I wanted. thanks
18:09	raek	well, the function does not have to be anonymous. but you can't just put the unwrapped expression there.
18:09	creese	which is what I was trying to do
18:10	raek	map is an ordinary function, so its arguments are evaluated before the function is called
18:11	raek	and it doesn't make sense to evaluate (count (first y)) "out of context"
18:11	raek	so you parameterize the expression and encapsulate it in a function object
18:13	mmarczyk	dnolen: just fixed a bug in TransientVector (the one Brian Taylor reported in CLJS-208), fix @ CLJS-226
18:13	creese	thanks
18:17	iwo	is using the thread macro a lot considered bad form in the clojure community?
18:18	technomancy	iwo: no, it's quite nice
18:19	iwo	e.g. would you rather see this: (first (reverse '(1 2 3))) or this: (-> '(1 2 3) reverse first)
18:19	technomancy	with only two short calls it's a toss up; the more calls (or arguments) you add the more valuable -> becomes
18:21	S11001001	though, -?> from core.incubator can be quite valuable with only 1 call
18:21	technomancy	eh; might as well use and for that
18:21	S11001001	huh?
18:22	hiredman	(and x (f x))
18:22	technomancy	it's one line shorter since you don't need to refer it
18:22	S11001001	not having a variable, often
18:22	S11001001	/binding/what-have-you
18:23	technomancy	true; it's point-free
18:24	S11001001	if you're willing to introduce temporaries willynilly, ->'s value also goes away
18:34	amalloy	personally i don't like -> much for things like (-> x foo bar baz) - it's much more useful for (-> x (foo a) (bar b) (baz z)) where otherwise the "focus" on x would get lost
18:39	solussd_	where can I find instructions on using the clojurescript repl form a project created with the noir cljs-template ?
18:41	emezeske	solussd_: Here: https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/blob/master/doc/REPL.md
18:41	emezeske	solussd_: cljs-template uses the lein-cljsbuild plugin for that AFAIK
18:41	pandeiro	solussd_: add :repl-init noir.cljs.repl to your project.clj, do `lein repl`, and call (browser)
18:42	pandeiro	that's just one way to do it... or just call browser from that ns however you decide to launch the repl
18:42	solussd_	thanks
18:43	pandeiro	you will have to refresh the browser after all of that to establish the connection
18:44	mmarczyk	the new reduce goodies in CLJS: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-227
18:44	mmarczyk	turns out this is copy and paste with CLJS-224 in place
19:28	Frozenlock	I've defined a function with some arguments ---> [& {:keys [arg1 arg2....]}]. Now when I call this function, I would like to be able to send it a map directly, such as {:arg1 value :arg2 value...}. I've used (apply my-function (flatten (into [] arg-maps))), but surely there's a more elegant way?
19:30	mebaran151	Frozenlock: for a start, you could probably drop the call to into
19:31	mebaran151	, (flatten (seq {:a 1 :b 2}))
19:31	S11001001	Frozenlock: rest-args are always seqs, never maps
19:31	clojurebot	(:a 1 :b 2)
19:31	mebaran151	,(flatten {:a 1 :b 2})
19:31	clojurebot	()
19:31	mmarczyk	S11001001: but can be destructured in a map-like fashion
19:32	S11001001	mmarczyk: which is implemented as building a new map
19:32	mmarczyk	S11001001: indeed it is
19:33	Frozenlock	Indeed, that's better
19:33	jonaskoelker	I got a question for (mildly?) seasoned clojurers: I'm implementing a toyish language, using s-exprs as my AST. I want to basically (eval ..) it, but only allow for execution of a particular (closed) set of functions. What's the idiomatic way of doing that?
19:33	mmarczyk	S11001001: nothing wrong with Frozenlock's definition though
19:33	Frozenlock	"for a start" means there's more? :)
19:33	mebaran151	Frozenlock: just my first thought was to just use seq directly
19:34	mmarczyk	flatten is dangerous, though, as it will flatten all the way
19:34	mmarczyk	that is, :foo [[1 2 3]] will get flattened to (:foo 1 2 3)
19:35	Frozenlock	Luckily in my case everything is at the same level
19:36	brehaut	(apply concat … or (mapcat identity …
19:36	hiredman	or use for
19:37	mebaran151	,(apply concat {:a 1 b 2})
19:37	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: b in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
19:37	S11001001	mmarczyk: unless Frozenlock truly wishes to pass a map "directly"
19:37	mebaran151	,(apply concat {:a 1 :b 2})
19:37	clojurebot	(:a 1 :b 2)
19:38	Frozenlock	No, simply my arguments are in a map and I don't want to extract each of them.
19:38	mmarczyk	S11001001: explaining the nature of rest args is a roundabout way of making that suggestion :-)
19:38	mmarczyk	S11001001: anyway, wasn't sure what you meant is all
19:39	S11001001	I prefer giving hints over handing out answers
19:39	S11001001	quite often I err on the side of obscurity :)
19:39	S11001001	anyway, concat is a great choice then
19:39	S11001001	but if you ever wish to pass a map "directly", consider that you can exploit the fact that there is no way to confuse a seq meant to be destructured as a map, with a single map
19:40	mmarczyk	Frozenlock: you could of course say (.invoke your-function the-map)
19:41	S11001001	that is, (fn me ([x] (me x nil)) ([x {:keys [...]}] impl-here) ([x k1 k2 & args] (me (apply hash-map k1 k2 args))))
19:41	mmarczyk	Frozenlock: ah, wait, wrong method
19:41	S11001001	will still [likely] rebuild
19:42	Frozenlock	Hmm concat is lazy: No value supplied for key: clojure.lang.LazySeq@6bfd3bcf
19:42	S11001001	apply is lazy :)
19:42	Frozenlock	Oh? It doesn't say so in its doc.
19:43	S11001001	it's a consequence of the language
19:43	S11001001	(apply concat inft-list) is therefore legal, and many others
19:44	S11001001	so glad rhickey didn't try to be java there
19:46	emezeske	Here's my non-lazy, super-ghetto solution:
19:46	emezeske	(defmacro mapply [f & args] `(~f ~@(butlast args) ~@(apply concat (into [] (last args)))))
19:48	amalloy	emezeske: it's not just non-lazy, it doesn't work in any interesting cases
19:48	emezeske	My solution has the advantage of having a name that can be confused with monad stuff
19:48	emezeske	amalloy: For example?
19:48	amalloy	(let [argmap {:a 1 :b 2}] (mapply whatever argmap))
19:49	powrtoc	how can you connect to an external swank process with slime? Now that clojure-mode packages it I can't call slime-connect, and clojure-jack-in starts a swank server inside emacs
19:49	emezeske	amalloy: What about that does not work?
19:49	emezeske	Oh
19:49	emezeske	Derp
19:49	amalloy	~mapply
19:49	clojurebot	You could (defn mapply [f & args] (apply f (apply concat (butlast args) (last args))))
19:49	mmarczyk	S11001001: you could also reverse that approach -- (fn me ([x opts] (let [{:keys [...]} opts] ...)) ([x k v & more] (me x (apply hash-map k v more))))
19:50	emezeske	amalloy: This question comes up enough that clojurebot knows about it?
19:50	mmarczyk	S11001001: wait, got totally mixed up
19:50	amalloy	well, i don't totally approve of having mapply exist, but TimMc (i think?) decided to teach clojurebot
19:50	technomancy	powrtoc: you have to either prime your emacs instance with a "dummy" jack-in or install slime via marmalade
19:51	mmarczyk	don't mind me, pulling together my split attention atm :-P
19:51	technomancy	slime-repl, that is
19:51	emezeske	amalloy: What do you not approve of?
19:51	amalloy	your internal functions should just take maps, and you pass maps around. having to create and rip apart maps from kwarg seqs all over the place is a pain and pointless
19:51	amalloy	at the outermost level, for the user: fine, use kwargs
19:51	emezeske	That's a good point.
19:52	amalloy	(and also slow)
19:52	emezeske	I generally just pass a map even in my outermost functions, the "{" and "}" are not that hard to type.
19:54	cduffy	Hmm. I'm advised to avoid dealing with Matchers directly (being mutable objects)... but is there a way to retrieve groups without them?
19:55	amalloy	re-seq
19:55	amalloy	or re-find probably works too, i dunno
19:56	amalloy	&(re-seq #"f(o+)" "a bad variable name, such as foo, should be avoided")
19:56	lazybot	⇒ (["foo" "oo"])
19:56	amalloy	&(re-find #"f(o+)" "a bad variable name, such as foo, should be avoided")
19:56	lazybot	⇒ ["foo" "oo"]
19:59	amalloy	cduffy: ^
20:03	powrtoc	technomancy, thanks slime-repl works a trea
20:03	powrtoc	t
20:04	technomancy	cool
20:11	TimMc	amalloy: It was you who taught clojurebot.
20:12	TimMc	(OK, technically, you clarified my factoid.)
21:03	Frozenlock	Is there a way to send something from an output stream directly to an input stream?
21:03	scottj_	video of Rich's railsconf keynote http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3917104
21:28	leo2007	is the jvm controlled by oracle?
21:31	Roxxi`	That's quite the loaded question you have there... :)
21:33	leo2007	sorry
21:36	leimy	Howdy. Was looking at the clojurescript sample for twitter. It doesn't seem to work for me. Is this a known issue, something about ICounter not being implemented. I'd like to show this to coworkers and see if I can't seduce them into clojure.
21:38	mebaran151	what's the best profiler for clojure?
21:40	scottj_	mebaran151: yourkit
21:41	riddochc	mebaran151: You could give criterium a try.
21:42	mebaran151	riddochc: criterium looks pretty cool
21:42	riddochc	https://github.com/hugoduncan/criterium
21:42	riddochc	I haven't done much with it, though. But anything that profiles stuff running on the JVM should do. I've heard good things about yourkit, but haven't used it.
21:42	riddochc	Doesn't have to be clojure-specific.
21:42	mebaran151	does it do sub-functional statistics (ie your function spent x amount of call keyword n times?)
21:43	alex_baranosky	never used YourKit with Clojure, but it works fine for JAva
21:43	riddochc	Good question, I don't know.
21:44	alex_baranosky	yourkit will tell me how much time is spent in different methods on Java classes
21:45	mebaran151	I was just looking for a way to test if this method was slow because of IO (fine) or because I'm spending all my time recursively munging keywords (less fine)
21:46	alex_baranosky	mebaran151, I can't say for sure, but I think you could look at what methods are being called by Clojure and look for an explosion of a particular method call
21:46	leo2007	is the #_ reader macro new in 1.4?
21:46	riddochc	Maybe visualvm might help too?
21:46	alex_baranosky	leo2007, nope!
21:46	leimy	nathanmarz: Just bought your MEAP book...
21:47	mmarczyk	leimy: you mean TwitterBuzz?
21:47	mmarczyk	leimy: which version of ClojureScript?
21:48	leimy	mmarczyk: Yes
21:48	leimy	mmarczyk: I pulled from github today. Master I think. Not in front of my computer at this point.
21:49	mmarczyk	leimy: ok, I'll go and compile it now
21:49	leo2007	alex_baranosky: thanks
21:49	leimy	mmarczyk: Was using safari on Lion, I could see it pulling twitter data for sure.
21:50	alex_baranosky	leo2007, not sure which version it arrived... old I think
21:50	leimy	Also clojurescript seems awfully nice. Very impressed so far. I just started today though.
21:51	leo2007	alex_baranosky: no problem. I was just surprised that clojure-mode doesn't put the form following #_ in comment face.
21:52	mmarczyk	leimy: ok, I'm hitting the same bug -- let's see about a fix
21:52	mmarczyk	leimy: glad you're liking it :-)
21:52	alex_baranosky	leo2007, that's kind of sad
21:53	amalloy	leo2007: i think the syntax highlighting in emacs is dumber than that - regexes, not full parse trees
21:53	leo2007	its clojure-mode's fault and can be fixed.
21:53	leo2007	amalloy: sure, but it can do a lot actually.
22:01	leimy	Emacs does the best job with Perl I've ever seen...
22:01	leimy	But then I avoid Perl
22:01	alex_baranosky	... and if it can handle Perl... you know it can handle anything :)
22:02	mmarczyk	leo2007: I wouldn't want #_ to be "commentified" at all
22:02	mmarczyk	leo2007: because I find the highlighted syntax in #_'d forms very useful
22:03	mmarczyk	same goes for (comment ...).
22:05	brehaut	ive gone both ways on highlighting of #_ and (comment forms
22:06	brehaut	ideally i think i'd like it to be highlighted as both some how
22:07	brehaut	but i havent worked out a good 'somehow'
22:07	alex_baranosky	brehaut, what would be slickest, would be it being commentified, and at the same time syntax highlighted in greyscale (or shades of whichever color is appropriate for comments in your given color scheme)
22:07	mmarczyk	fade out / change background colour ?
22:07	brehaut	something like that could work yeah
22:08	dgrnbrg	After the GSOC project to port clojure to luajit, that'll pave the way for porting clojure to vim script and elisp. It will be awesome when one editor plugin works on all the important IDEs
22:08	leo2007	mmarczyk: yeah, that could be useful too.
22:08	dgrnbrg	Especially to share functionality like the parser/syntax highlighter
22:08	brehaut	ive mostly only thought about it in terms of the javascript syntax highlighter brush,
22:08	mmarczyk	dgrnbrg: oh yeah :-D
22:08	brehaut	which has some annoying limitations, and would require CSS rules for everything
22:09	leimy	I have an aversion to IDEs. I feel like they make me do things their way.
22:12	leimy	Be back soon. Getting daughter home from dance
22:14	mmarczyk	leimy: see you later; I think I've pinpointed the source of that bug, btw
22:21	leimy	Awesome
22:24	mmarczyk	oh man, I've been thinking about why my fix doesn't work for 5 minutes only to discover that I've been running the repl in another checkout :-(
22:27	leimy	mmarczyk: Hehe. I do that stuff a lot
22:28	leimy	Home now btw... I can test things
22:28	wei_	is there a Clojure socket.io client library?
22:29	mmarczyk	leimy: got it working! will post a fix on JIRA in a sec
22:29	leimy	Awesome
22:42	mmarczyk	leimy: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-229
22:43	leimy	mmarczyk: Thank you
22:45	mmarczyk	np
22:45	jayunit100	Why does " (for [x (lazy-seq (range 1 100011111110000)) :when (= x 1)] x) " take a long time to return ???
22:45	lazybot	jayunit100: Oh, absolutely.
22:46	jayunit100	,(for [x (lazy-seq (range 1 10)) :when (= x 1)] x)
22:46	clojurebot	(1)
22:46	leimy	mmarczyk: I have no idea how to apply this patch. :-)
22:46	tmciver	jayunit100: for has to check all the elements to see which are 1.
22:46	mmarczyk	leimy: cat ....patch \| git am
22:46	mmarczyk	leimy: in a checkout of CLJS master
22:47	leimy	I see I wanted to use straight patch.
22:47	mmarczyk	leimy: see also the earlier ticket linked to from CLJS-229 -- should provide a speed boost
22:48	mmarczyk	leimy: then again probably not easily noticeable in TwitterBuzz, so maybe not worth your time
22:48	mmarczyk	leimy: on second thought.
22:48	Frozenlock	Any advice on how I could make this function send the output stream directly to an input stream? I want to avoid the 'write-to-disk' step. http://pastebin.com/nn6CTc0N
22:49	leimy	Is swp some archival/compression? I suddenly feel I've been in a coma or something.
22:51	jayunit100	tmciver: I thought it would, lazily emit them though...
22:55	tmciver	jayunit100: yes, at the repl it will take a long time because the repl is realizing it; if you def it, it returns immediately.
22:57	jayunit100	hm ok i always tend to make that mistake . I guess the repl doesnt lazily stream results back.
22:57	mmarczyk	leimy: swp?
22:58	leimy	mmarczyk: did you post the vim swapfile instead of the patch?
22:58	mmarczyk	leimy: ...argh
22:58	leimy	haha.
22:59	mmarczyk	leimy: fixed, thanks for the heads up
23:00	mmarczyk	other recent patches happily appear to be the actual patches :-P
23:03	leimy	mmarczyk: that fixed it. thanks!
23:04	mmarczyk	leimy: great, thanks for the report!
23:04	leimy	mmarczyk: sorry did not know how to patch it myself
23:05	mmarczyk	leimy: not at all
23:05	mmarczyk	leimy: the reason for the breakage was kind of unexpected -- in count -- basically some chaos around removing some default implementations of things for perf reasons
23:06	mmarczyk	leimy: CLJS will be the better for it, but I guess running the bundled demo apps from time to time to discover breakage wouldn't be a bad idea
23:07	leimy	mmarczyk: ah. yeah. :-). well i saw the rich hickey demo online and decided i wanted to do that.
23:07	mmarczyk	leimy: you mean the unveiling video? that was awesome
23:07	leimy	mmarczyk: yes
23:13	mmarczyk	Frozenlock: http://ostermiller.org/convert_java_outputstream_inputstream.html
23:14	mmarczyk	Frozenlock: method 2, I guess
23:15	Frozenlock	Thanks, I stumbled uppon the same solution on stack overflow.
23:15	Frozenlock	Still can't figure out how to make it work :(
23:18	Frozenlock	java.io.PrintWriter would behave the same in a pipedstream, correct?
23:19	mmarczyk	ivan: hah, that's a cool link :-)
23:19	mmarczyk	Frozenlock: I would hope so, but don't know for sure
23:25	mmarczyk	Frozenlock: I guess you'd wrap the PipedOutputStream in the ZipOutputStream
23:26	mmarczyk	Frozenlock: pass the other end of the pipe -- the PipedInputStream -- to the consumer
23:26	mmarczyk	Frozenlock: then just .putNextEntry as many times as you want
23:26	mmarczyk	Frozenlock: no writes, printlns etc.
23:27	Frozenlock	Hmm... what about the content?
23:27	Frozenlock	If I understand correctly, the content is inserted with the .println
23:29	mmarczyk	Frozenlock: ah, right
23:29	mmarczyk	sorry, I think I need to get some sleep
23:29	Frozenlock	So do I, but thanks :)
23:29	mmarczyk	:-)
23:30	mmarczyk	but still, I think you should just do the same thing except w/ ZOS wrapping a PipedOutputStream
23:30	mmarczyk	and hope the PIS will be pleasant to work with on the consumer side :-)
23:30	Frozenlock	Yes, it is somehow working... I have a .zip file, but it's corrupted
23:34	mmarczyk	hm, yeah, tried to get this working here, but not sure about the details
23:34	mmarczyk	:-(
23:36	Frozenlock	I succeeded in making a spit-to-zip function, but can't for the life of me understand how to just send it to an input stream. Life's a bitch.
23:36	mmarczyk	heh
23:36	mmarczyk	oh wow, need to dash now or I'll miss my train
23:37	Frozenlock	Have a nice ride
23:37	leimy	mmarczyk: thanks again
23:37	mmarczyk	thanks!
23:38	devn	I'm moving a library from 1.2 (with contrib deps) to 1.4 -- what is the preferred fn to use in place of duck-streams/read-lines?
23:39	devn	does clojure.java.io handle automatically closing like read-lines used to?
23:59	arohner_	devn: yes, it does