#clojure – 2012-04-14

2012-04-14

00:58	scottj	muhoo: where the highest rated comments are about smalltalk or yc vs kickstarter.
01:05	y3di	muhoo: he joined the ranks only few have reached before him
02:30	muhoo	scottj: the kickstart vs yc flamewar was annoying. the smalltalk stuff was at least on-topic.
02:34	muhoo	i have to say, the more i learn about and understand clojure, the more sourcecode i can actually read and understand, the more in awe i am of what frickin geniuses y'all are.
02:35	muhoo	rather than taking the magic out of it, the more i understand of it, the more magical it seems.
03:05	amalloy	jayunit100: you can't splicing-unquote outside of a syntax quote, because that would be a single form "expanding" into multiple forms, which breaks pretty much everything about the reader
03:06	amalloy	you can do it just fine inside of a syntax quote, because `(x ~@foo y) is still a single form - the syntax-quote is "taking responsibility" for the forms under it
03:07	wkmanire	Howdy folks.
03:07	wkmanire	Working with clojure from my linux box for a (nice) change.
03:08	wkmanire	technomancy: You have these instructions for instaling swank-clojure. "Add [lein-swank "1.4.4"] to the :plugins section of either project.clj or your user profile."
03:08	wkmanire	technomancy: what do you mean by user profile/
03:08	wkmanire	?
03:12	_ato	wkmanire: if you're using the Leingingen 2 preview version (which is where the profile stuff comes from) see the plugins section here https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/wiki/Upgrading
03:13	_ato	if you're on Lein 1 just do: lein plugin install swank-clojure 1.4.2
03:15	wkmanire	_ato: All done.
03:15	wkmanire	I just jacked into my first clojure lein projuct.
03:15	wkmanire	I know kung-fu.
03:16	_ato	wkmanire: congrats! :)
03:17	muhoo	wkmanire: fantastic!
03:18	amalloy	hey, you got it to work
03:18	muhoo	wkmanire: are you going to use a linux vm on your windows box for clojure stuff?
03:18	wkmanire	:)
03:19	wkmanire	muhoo: No, I'll just work with inferior lisp.
03:19	muhoo	that's how i do it
03:19	wkmanire	muhoo: My clojure installation on my windows box is for my 10 minutes here and there when I can't make myself stay on task for work.
03:19	wkmanire	10~cough 30 minutes.
03:19	muhoo	i discovered the clj-stacktrace plugin, which is great in the shell, but looks like ass in comint-mode
03:20	muhoo	there has to be a way to turn off the damn colors, but i can't find that knob anywhere
03:20	wkmanire	I've never really used comint.
03:20	muhoo	inferior lisp, i think, uses comint-mode
03:21	muhoo	i have a clojure repl running on a machine out in the network, which i can connect to from connectbot on my phone
03:21	muhoo	ssh, really, and port forwarding to the repl
03:24	wkmanire	:D
03:25	wkmanire	muhoo: I'm trying to understand the work flow here.
03:25	muhoo	there are lots of options
03:25	wkmanire	muhoo: After I've spent a while hacking out some stuff in the REPL, is there a way I can export everything to a buffer?
03:25	muhoo	save it to a file
03:26	wkmanire	The whole REPL session?
03:26	muhoo	in your project
03:26	muhoo	no, jsut the code you want to keep
03:26	wkmanire	So I have to traverse my repl session and copy over what I want to keep.
03:26	muhoo	have a look at the structure of the skeleton file that "lein new" creates and you'll see it creates a core.clj file, for example
03:27	wkmanire	There it is.
03:27	muhoo	when i'm just playing around in the repl, i just save the buffer in emacs as my "notes"
03:27	muhoo	as like "playingaround.clj"
03:27	wkmanire	That sounds like a good idea.
03:28	wkmanire	It'd be nice if I could tell it to grab everything in namespace x and save it to file xyz.clf
03:28	muhoo	then, when i decide to write some actual code, i think about the structure of namespaces, etc, and put things in a more sensible place
03:28	wkmanire	clj*
03:28	wkmanire	I could see namespaces being used in the repl to organize your "thoughts"
03:28	muhoo	you could probably write some clojure to do that :-)
03:29	muhoo	it's worth reading up on namespaces and what they are, what they do.
03:29	wkmanire	I read what was written in chapter 1 of Cemerick's book on them.
03:29	amalloy	wkmanire: i generally write anything i might conceivably want to save (ie, everything) in an emacs buffer, and send it to the repl with C-M-x or whatever
03:30	wkmanire	hmm
03:31	amalloy	you can use scratch for that buffer if you don't want to "commit" to writing a real file :P
03:31	wkmanire	Good points.
03:32	muhoo	craig andera's talk at cljwest on namespaces was good too.
03:32	muhoo	idk if the video is up though.
03:35	muhoo	basically "require" means "load", "refer" means bring everything from another namespace into the current one, "use" means "require + refer", and he also explains what the (ns) macro does and why.
03:35	muhoo	might be readable from here: github.com/strangeloop/clojurewest2012-slides
03:36	wkmanire	muhoo: Thanks for the link.
03:37	wkmanire	whew, my to read favorites list is getting longer and longer.
03:39	muhoo	arrrgh, clj-stacktrace is included in lein 1.7.1, or is otherwise being brought in from somewhere else
03:39	muhoo	curse you, ted turner!
03:40	muhoo	yep, included in lein. search and destroy time
03:41	muhoo	hmm, no wait, it's not. odd. it's coming from somewhere, i'll find it
03:42	muhoo	hehe, it's hidden inside lein-cljsbuild
03:43	muhoo	and swank-clojure :-/
03:44	wkmanire	uh oh.
03:44	wkmanire	Guess I shouldn't try to use read-line from the slime-repl.
03:45	muhoo	no, readline and emacs aren't good together
03:46	muhoo	cool, removed a bunch of lein plugins, and now i have my non-color hack of clj-stacktrace working. i win.
03:47	muhoo	wkmanire: i generally use this elisp to launch a repl: https://refheap.com/paste/2110
03:48	wkmanire	I see.
03:48	muhoo	if you do M-x ielm, get an elisp repl, dump that code in there, then you can do "M-x lein-local" and start up clojure from that
03:48	muhoo	it's hacky but it works for me
03:48	wkmanire	Thats alright, I just popped open a terminal window and ran clojure code.clj...
03:48	wkmanire	it worked great
03:48	wkmanire	I read a line of text from stdin and crapped it back out.
03:48	muhoo	or just add that to your .emacs
03:49	muhoo	nice.
03:49	wkmanire	Now that I can talk to the keyboard and the hard drive I can start playing.
03:50	muhoo	yeah, there's always cut-and-pasting
03:50	muhoo	&"hello wkmanire"
03:50	lazybot	⇒ "hello wkmanire"
03:51	wkmanire	&(let [x (read-line)] (print x))
03:51	wkmanire	he he
03:51	wkmanire	thought that might get ignored.
03:52	lazybot	Execution Timed Out!
03:52	wkmanire	sweet
03:52	muhoo	haha
03:54	amalloy	&(binding [in (java.io.StringReader. "hello wkmanire\nmore text here\n")] (doall (repeatedly 2 read-line)))
03:54	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! pop-thread-bindings is bad!
03:54	amalloy	,(binding [in (java.io.StringReader. "hello wkmanire\nmore text here\n")] (doall (repeatedly 2 read-line))) ;; i hate you, lazybot
03:54	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.io.StringReader cannot be cast to java.io.BufferedReader>
03:54	amalloy	and also i hate java, apparently
03:57	wkmanire	amalloy: excellent attempt all the same.
04:00	muhoo	&(doto (Thread. #(println "woo hoo")) .start .join)
04:00	lazybot	⇒ #<Thread Thread[Thread-7006,5,]>
04:11	andyfingerhut	Is this a game of abuse-the-lazybot?
04:57	laurus	What do I do in leiningen if I want to include a .jar file that is not available through Maven?
05:00	scottj	laurus: install it in your local maven repo ~/.m2
05:01	muhoo	well, use lein local-repo plugin, even better
05:01	laurus	scottj, what do you mean "install it"?
05:01	muhoo	http://www.google.com/url?q=https://github.com/kumarshantanu/lein-localrepo&sa=U&ei=ejuJT-aVOsSdiQKwsrX2Cw&ved=0CBAQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGP89lrjM3tY7LZZxFD9jRSUUMujw
05:01	muhoo	gawd DAMN google
05:01	muhoo	https://github.com/kumarshantanu/lein-localrepo
05:01	laurus	muhoo, ah, thanks.
05:02	muhoo	np
05:02	scottj	laurus: there's a long mvn command maven spits out occasionally in errors, muhoo's solution is probably better though
05:02	laurus	Oh, I am using lein 2. That's why I couldn't install it maybe?
05:04	laurus	Maybe I should use scottj's solution?
05:04	muhoo	lein2 might have it built in?
05:04	laurus	muhoo, when I type "lein plugin install ..." I get "That's not a task."
05:05	muhoo	ah, lein2 has different plugin install system
05:05	scottj	laurus: http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-3rd-party-jars-local.html
05:05	laurus	scottj, I'll use that, thanks.
05:05	laurus	muhoo, I see.
05:05	muhoo	laurus: youadd it to ~/.lein/profiles.clj:
05:06	muhoo	{:user {:plugins [[lein-newnew "0.2.6"]]}}
05:06	muhoo	well local-repo, not newnew, but that's the basic thing
05:06	laurus	muhoo, ah, ok.
05:06	laurus	I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this, but all of this is quite complicated.
05:07	muhoo	so i guess add {:user {:plugins [[lein-localrepo "0.3"]]}} to ~/.lein/profiles.clj
05:07	muhoo	yeah, it's complicated, but i find it less so than maven or ant
05:08	laurus	muhoo, what do I do after creating that file and adding that line?
05:08	muhoo	i'm new myself 220 hours into learning clojure, just starting to get comfortable with it
05:09	scottj	laurus: btw, if you put the jar in your project.clj then lein deps will show you the maven error where it gives you the exact command to run
05:09	muhoo	lein2? i use lein 1.7.1 so i'm not sure if it behaves differently
05:10	muhoo	in 1.7.1, if you have added the plugin, you can do
05:10	muhoo	lein localrepo install <filename> <[groupId/]artifactId> <version>
05:10	muhoo	probably same for lein2
05:11	muhoo	for example, i did
05:11	muhoo	lein localrepo install osc-0.7.1.jar local.repo/osc 0.7.1
05:11	laurus	What is this group and artifact stuff?
05:11	muhoo	maven stuff
05:12	muhoo	it's like a fqdn
05:12	laurus	"java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate leiningen/util/maven__init.class or leiningen/util/maven.clj on classpath."
05:13	muhoo	hmm, maybe lein localrepo doesn't work at all with lein2.
05:13	laurus	OK! I will do the "manual" way then.
05:14	muhoo	yeah, can't argue with that :-/
05:15	scottj	laurus: I think you can give it whatever group and artifact you want, you'll just have to use that in your project.clj. (someone correct me if wrong here)
05:15	muhoo	oic, lein localrepo has been updated for lein2, in git: https://github.com/kumarshantanu/lein-localrepo/commit/4b69d19b41000f0495441c79eb33db1f53e29da1 but not in the released version yet
05:16	scottj	laurus: in project.clj it's [group/artifact "version"] you're probably familiar with that. just fill in the blanks on mvn command
05:16	laurus	OK, thanks!
05:18	laurus	What should I use for a groupId?
05:18	laurus	I mean, what is recommended?
05:19	scottj	something descriptive of jar, "laurus" or "org.lauruswebsite" if it's yours
05:20	scottj	descriptive or organization that made the jar that is
05:20	laurus	Ah, I see.
05:20	laurus	Thanks!
05:20	laurus	And by the way, what should I put for "packaging"?
05:21	scottj	jar
05:21	laurus	Thanks :)
05:22	laurus	By the way, how do I install Maven so that it will work with Java 7? I am on Debian GNU/Linux.
05:24	laurus	Is there a way to set which version of Java Maven uses, or is that somehow "built-in"?
05:28	helino	hi everyone, I'm trying to do some we development using ring, but when I run "lein ring server" using leiningen, I get a ClassCastException. How do I debug this?
05:28	scottj	helino: pastebin the entire error
05:29	_ato	laurus: set the JAVA_HOME environment variable
05:29	laurus	_ato, thanks.
05:30	helino	scottj: http://pastebin.com/qdk07Bcr
05:31	scottj	helino: lein --version?
05:32	helino	scottj: Leiningen 1.7.1 on Java 1.7.0_03 Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM
05:33	helino	scottj: here is the project.clj file: http://pastebin.com/xjbHxCSx
05:35	_ato	the :ring option needs to be a map I think. At least the example in the lein-ring readme is :ring {:handler hello-world.core/handler}
05:36	helino	_ato: yes, that was it!
05:36	helino	_ato and scottj, thanks for your help!
05:38	scottj	helino: get a better font :)
05:38	scottj	smallest terminus makes very hard to see diff between ( and {
05:39	laurus	Got the jar installed. Thanks scottj and muhoo!
06:15	laurus	By the way, does anyone here use clojure-py?
06:15	fliebel	laurus: I think it's a bit early to use it, but experiment, yes.
06:16	laurus	fliebel, to be honest I'm excited about it!
06:16	fliebel	I was tempted to rewrite a pice of Python software in it, but didn't.
06:16	laurus	Well why not? :)
06:17	fliebel	Because not even all the core functions are there yet, let alone the libraries.
06:17	laurus	Wow. I wish I could donate some money to that project or something.
06:18	samaaron	fliebel: hey there - how did you send me a mail via lazybot - that's cool
06:18	samaaron	is that automatic?
06:18	fliebel	laurus: If yu asked, them, they would probably let you buy them a coffee or bear, i guess, but I think it would be mroe helpfull to take a fn from https://github.com/halgari/clojure-py/blob/master/clojure/untranslated.clj and port it.
06:19	fliebel	samaaron: $mail username message ;)
06:19	samaaron	that's awesome
06:20	samaaron	so you do it without the $?
06:20	fliebel	?
06:20	samaaron	$mail fliebel hello there - do you read me?
06:20	lazybot	Message saved.
06:21	samaaron	ah, got you
06:21	samaaron	you were able to use the full command because you prefixed your string with my username
06:21	samaaron	this is insanely cool
06:21	samaaron	lazybot: ftw!
06:22	fliebel	samaaron: I ended up using Python though, because I failed horribly at making RxTx work.
06:22	samaaron	fliebel: but to answer your message, I the RxTx thing only has serial libraries
06:22	samaaron	and it really is a horribly cobbled together mess
06:22	samaaron	i tried sooo many different compiled versions before i found one that worked
06:22	samaaron	and i couldn't compile the beta versions myself
06:23	samaaron	it was all a real nightmare
06:23	fliebel	samaaron: Does RxTx only have serial, or your version?
06:23	samaaron	so it only has serial natives
06:23	fliebel	samaaron: Have a look at PureJavaComm. same API, no natives... only serial :(
06:24	samaaron	oh nice
06:24	samaaron	i wonder how effecient it is
06:24	samaaron	i'm having issues with my monome library with message throughput
06:24	samaaron	i'm not sure where the issue is
06:24	samaaron	it will be useful to test out with other libs
06:25	fliebel	samaaron: Don't know. It's a JNA wrapper over Terminos, while RxTx uses it via C.
06:25	fliebel	samaaron: At which baud rate does the monome run?
06:27	samaaron	fliebel: to be honest, i'm not exactly sure
06:27	fliebel	I needed to get my DPScope to work at 500000 baud, which didn't work with any Java lib I tried.
06:27	samaaron	oh wow
06:27	samaaron	so what did you end up using?
06:28	fliebel	Python, as I just said to laurus. Tempting to go for clojure-py though...
06:28	samaaron	$mail TimMc I totally agree with you regarding Overtone docs. All it needs is someone to make it happen :-)
06:28	lazybot	Message saved.
06:29	samaaron	how annoying that the JVM can't do something python can
06:29	laurus	fliebel, I am a beginner at Clojure so I don't think I can contribute to that project though, yet.
06:29	fliebel	samaaron: Rather, that the Mac implementation of Terminos doesn't support it. PySerial uses some custom command on Mac to se the baud rate.
06:31	fliebel	laurus: Porting functions from untranslated.clj shouldn't be to hard, if you stay away from the ones involving concurrency.
06:31	samaaron	ah ok
06:32	laurus	fliebel, well I will take a look! Thanks for the encouragement.
06:32	fliebel	laurus: That is, if you know Python. Most of it is just javaisms that need to become pythonisms.
06:33	samaaron	fliebel: this purejavacomm project looks interesting
06:35	samaaron	fliebel: so i noticed you threw a commit at them - did you get things working?
06:37	fliebel	samaaron: I don't know... I copied what PySerial did, and it it is not completely broken, but it doesn;t work with the DPScope either.
06:37	samaaron	fair enough
06:38	samaaron	if i had any further issues with rxtx, my next plan was to wrap up the binaries shipped with Processing
06:38	samaaron	to be honest, it's super frustrating that there's no standard serial lib shipped with the JVM
06:39	fliebel	samaaron: https://github.com/nyholku/purejavacomm/issues/4
06:39	fliebel	samaaron: It would be great if you had any serial device around to verify the change is broken or not.
06:42	samaaron	fliebel: do you have an example of using this lib?
06:42	samaaron	that i could just hack with and hook my monome up with?
06:43	samaaron	i'd love to say goodbye to rxtx
06:44	sandbags	guess it's old hate for you guys but i just saw the lighttable demo, pretty nice
06:44	fliebel	samaaron: The pull request has my example code: https://github.com/nyholku/purejavacomm/pull/5
06:44	sandbags	as someone just getting in to learning clojure, that looks like it would be useful and fun
06:44	samaaron	fliebel: cool, thanks
06:45	samaaron	fliebel: btw, I only today realised that you're Pepijn
06:45	fliebel	samaaron: It's the same api, just a different namespace.
06:45	samaaron	i'm terrible with names :-)
06:45	fliebel	samaaron: Yea, for historical reasons, this is the only place on the internet my nick is fliebel. Tried to change it once, didn't work well.
06:46	samaaron	haha
06:46	samaaron	oh damn, this API is nice
08:12	samaaron	fliebel: how did you pull down purejavacomm via lein?
08:13	fliebel	samaaron: He has his own maven repo, it's on his homepage.
08:13	samaaron	I tried this to no avail: https://refheap.com/paste/2111
08:13	fliebel	samaaron: Just this part: "http://www.sparetimelabs.com/maven2/"
08:14	samaaron	ah cool
08:14	samaaron	hmm, doesn't seem to work either
08:15	samaaron	i must be doing something wrong in my project.clj
08:15	samaaron	it now looks like this: https://refheap.com/paste/2113
10:16	yoklov	wow, cljs.core.str is very slow.
10:18	yoklov	much slower than (.join (array …) "")
10:19	yoklov	at least, in chrome.
10:24	khaliG	I'm wondering how to use this http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_contrib/clojure.contrib.io/write-lines in 1.3?
10:29	yoklov	Hm, you could do (spit the-file (apply str (interleave my-seq (repeat "\n"))
10:30	yoklov	though that function is probably somewhere now.
10:30	TimMc	lazybot: Mail for me?
10:30	khaliG	i've got a hacky version of it but i'd rather use a standard one if it exists? :/
10:30	yoklov	contrib is gone
10:30	khaliG	yoklov :(
10:31	yoklov	khaliG, i know its hard, but it's better this way
10:33	yoklov	yeah i don't think that function made the cut for clojure.java.io
10:34	khaliG	fair enough, i'm just going to append some "\n"s and then join them together for spit
10:40	yoklov	you could also do (cl-format the-file-writer "~{~A~%~}" the-seq)
10:40	llasram`	Oh yeah, as far as I can tell, all the functions which try to make lazy seqs work with automatically opening and closing files are gone
10:40	yoklov	after (use 'clojure.pprint)
10:41	llasram	This one doesn't look unreasonable, but read-lines was a file leak waiting to happen
10:41	yoklov	that's probably a good thing, sounds like you might run into issues if you dont wrap it in (doall) or something
10:43	yoklov	khalig, you could also bind out and (dorun (map prn …))
10:43	yoklov	or println
10:44	khaliG	yoklov, cheers, thanks for the help :)
10:44	yoklov	gotta say, i've never had to use it but i'm glad that cl-format is available should i want to replace a loop with a small and unreadable format string
10:45	khaliG	yoklov, is that from CL?
10:45	yoklov	it is
10:45	khaliG	oooh
10:57	LauJensen	Do we have an fn like .replaceAll, but which takes a pattern instead of a concrete string?
10:59	llasram	LauJensen: ##(doc clojure.string/replace)
10:59	lazybot	⇒ "([s match replacement]); Replaces all instance of match with replacement in s. match/replacement can be: string / string char / char pattern / (string or function of match). See also replace-first."
11:00	LauJensen	Exactly what I needed, thanks llasram
11:01	llasram	np :-) For future reference, you might find the `clojure.repl/find-doc` macro useful. Also, http://clojuredocs.org/
11:02	LauJensen	Naah, #clojure is my find-doc, usually has better info :)
11:04	xeqi	theres also $findfn
11:04	xeqi	$findfn "asdfxx" #"x" "s" "asdfss"
11:04	lazybot	[clojure.string/replace]
11:11	llasram	I always forget about one
11:15	mdeboard	What exactly does clojure.java.io.resource do ? I'm looking at a code snippet here, and trying to reference the API
11:15	mdeboard	but the API isn't much help
11:15	mdeboard	snippet https://gist.github.com/cad792af9612ddcc060a
11:15	mdeboard	lines 14-16
11:16	mdeboard	I'm only familiar with reader/writer from that module
11:17	yoklov	that gets the file at "testdata/mol-1000.txt" in the classpath
11:17	mdeboard	Oh I see, returns nil ?
11:17	yoklov	resource returns the url i think
11:18	mdeboard	hm
11:18	xeqi	it will return nil if it can't find it
11:18	mdeboard	I see
11:18	xeqi	are you using lein?
11:18	mdeboard	Oh, so even if I provide an absolute path it stil must be on project class path
11:18	mdeboard	?
11:18	yoklov	probably not
11:19	yoklov	but you wouldn't use resource
11:20	mdeboard	xeqi: Yes, I'm using lein
11:23	xeqi	lein uses "resources" as the directory on the classpath by default
11:26	mdeboard	xeqi: I actually have no such directory, but I see it in the output of `lein classpath`. That snippet I linked is actually someone else's that I'm trying to adapt for my own purposes. Where should this text file sit ?
11:28	xeqi	test-resources/testdata/mol-1000.txt should work
11:28	xeqi	since it's test data
11:30	mdeboard	Well, here's what I'm actually trying to execute https://gist.github.com/45ffc442e4a5f018536b
11:33	xeqi	I'd recommend moving access.upstream.log.sample into your resources dir
11:33	xeqi	or just using clojure.java.io/file
11:35	mdeboard	Oh, I see, it seems that (resource) fetches the absolute path?
11:36	mdeboard	(moving to resources and calling `(as-file (resource "access.upstream.log.sample"))` returned `#<File /home/matt/matts-hadoop-interview-test/resources/access.upstream.log.sample>`)
11:37	xeqi	resource looks through the classpath for the file, and returns a URL to it
11:37	xeqi	its useful for loading non-source files from a jar
11:38	mdeboard	Gotcha, so could I have just used `(as-file "/absolute/path/to/file")`
11:38	xeqi	yeah
11:38	mdeboard	Gotcha
11:38	xeqi	resource is more useful for loading something like images from the classpath
11:43	gfredericks	what's that function that lets you combine predicates in an or fashion?
11:44	mdeboard	xeqi: Thanks for your help, I was stuck.
11:44	xeqi	or fashion?
11:45	Raynes	Morning sirs.
11:45	gfredericks	(def boolean? (or-pred true? false?))
11:45	gfredericks	Raynes: I woke up this morning wondering why lazybot couldn't allow eval in a recursive fashion
11:46	Raynes	I was pondering the meaning of the life, but that's cool too.
11:47	Raynes	gfredericks: What do you mean?
11:47	wkmanire	Mornin' folks.
11:48	gfredericks	Raynes: I mean if you redef eval to defer to clojail, then I could enter ##(eval '(+ 3 4)) and it would recursively pass the (+ 3 4) back to the clojail-eval mechanism
11:48	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! eval is bad!
11:48	xeqi	&((some-fn true? false?) false)
11:48	lazybot	⇒ true
11:48	gfredericks	xeqi: dat it
11:48	gfredericks	thx
11:50	Raynes	gfredericks: That might be possible.
11:50	Raynes	gfredericks: Open an issue on clojail about it.
11:50	gfredericks	okay.
11:51	gfredericks	done.
11:54	gfredericks	I'm working on a macro that allows unquoting just to prove it can be done
12:09	yoklov	anybody know if cljs's (set! obj.prop val) is supposed to work? looking through the compiler it seems like it might just... happen to work
12:12	yoklov	happen to work in such a way that it wouldn't work after being closure compiled
12:27	Hali_303	hi! I've just read that defrecords cannot act as functions like regular maps. why is that? isn't that problematic, since much code already uses the (map :akey) notation in code?
12:28	yoklov	i'm not sure that that's true
12:28	yoklov	hm, seems to be, actually
12:28	yoklov	well, you can do
12:29	yoklov	,(do (defrecord Test [a]) (:a (Test. 4)))
12:29	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
12:29	yoklov	:(
12:29	yoklov	well, that returns 4.
12:29	yoklov	its not much help for you but it might ease porting.
12:31	gfredericks	this has been talked about before; I don't remember the reasoning
12:31	gfredericks	might just be to allow other impls of IFn
12:31	gfredericks	speaking of which you can probably implement it explicitly
12:31	Hali_303	yoklov: yeah it works the other way around
12:31	yoklov	yeah
12:31	yoklov	oh
12:32	yoklov	you can do (defrecord Test [a] clojure.lang.IFn (invoke [this a] (get this a)))
12:32	yoklov	then ((Test. 4) :a) will work.
12:32	Hali_303	whoa, nice :)
12:32	ibdknox	wow, dnolen wasn't kidding about doubling my karma
12:33	yoklov	thats probably not particularly clear because i used a as both a property of Test and the argument to invoke but… yeah.
12:33	Hali_303	I'm curious what's the official take on this though
12:33	yoklov	Hali_303, I think gfredericks is right.
12:33	yoklov	its to allow other impls. of IFn
12:34	yoklov	and if you want the map-like behavior you should explicitly implement it (as above)
12:39	yoklov	ibdknox: you might know, does (set! foo.bar val) work in cljs due to the compiler just emitting exactly "foo.bar = val" or is it actually supposed to work?
12:41	wkmanire	Is it common for clojure code to be full of Java objects?
12:41	llasram	wkmanire: It depends on what you're doing. I'd say it isn't uncommon for it to be full of Java objects
12:41	wkmanire	Let's say I wanted to make a simple CRUD application (don't really wish that on anyone)
12:42	wkmanire	An address book that stores information in an SQLite database
12:42	wkmanire	and provides as simple GUI.
12:42	wkmanire	Would I be able to do that without newing up a java object?
12:42	wkmanire	directly that is.
12:43	ibdknox	yoklov: it works accidentally intentionally I think ;)
12:43	yoklov	wkmanire: you should use clojure/java.jdbc for the SQL, but the gui portions you will either end up using java objects directly or using a lib like seesaw
12:43	lucian	wkelly: if you choose the right libraries, probably
12:43	llasram	wkmanire: Probably not 100%, but mostly. There are nice Clojure bindings for e.g. JDBC SQL and Swing
12:44	yoklov	ibdknox: yeah, i thought so, darn.
12:44	mfex	yoklov, set! is used a lot in clojurescript itself
12:44	ibdknox	yoklov: it won't disappear
12:44	llasram	wkmanire: That said, unless you're writing code that you want/need to be portable across Clojure implementations, avoiding direct platform interaction for the sake of avoiding it is just shooting yourself in the food
12:44	ibdknox	there's no reason for it to
12:45	wkmanire	llasram: What a waste of nutrition.
12:45	llasram	ha!
12:45	llasram	s,food,foot, :-p
12:45	yoklov	ibdknox: it seems like it might be a thing that breaks after the code is closure compiled though
12:45	ibdknox	?
12:45	yoklov	actually no, that doesn't make sense.
12:45	ibdknox	yeah, that'll be fine
12:45	mfex	yoklov, it doesn't break clojurescript itself when advanced compiling, so it's save
12:46	llasram	Clojure is designed for solid interop, and it works great. Obviously there are benefits to re-using cleaner abstractions when available, but being able to use rock-solid Java libraries is one of the big benefits of Clojure
12:46	yoklov	it doesn't work if the var is top-level, as opposed to a let.
12:46	yoklov	or at least, didnt' used to.
12:46	wkmanire	Well, one of the draws of clojure is its practicality so going out of my way to avoid using Java interop doesn't make sense.
12:46	wkmanire	But I have to admit, reading nice pretty clojure code and then all of sudden running across java.something.something.ANewOneOfThese.
12:47	wkmanire	Is like putting salt in your coffee.
12:47	yoklov	wkmanire: well, you can put (:import [java.something.something ANewOneOfThese]) and then just do (ANewOneOfThese.)
12:48	yoklov	* put in your ns form
12:48	wkmanire	That's be a lot better actually.
12:48	dnolen	ibdknox: pretty crazy 1200+ on HN and 1500+ on reddit. congrats!
12:48	dnolen	ibdknox: now what? :)
12:48	ibdknox	dnolen: that's a very good question
12:49	ibdknox	I applied to YC with a very different idea
12:49	ibdknox	I mostly did this thing on a whim
12:49	ibdknox	With the intent primarily of throwing some ideas out there
12:49	ibdknox	but judging by the response, this would be worth a lot of money to a lot of people
12:49	dnolen	ibdknox: I think so.
12:50	dnolen	ibdknox: also much better learning environment than this codeacademy codeschool crap
12:50	ibdknox	haha my first idea before the medical one was Kodowa
12:50	wkmanire	ibdknox: Talking about lightbox?
12:50	ibdknox	an environment to teach you how to code
12:50	ibdknox	wkmanire: Light Table
12:50	wkmanire	lighttable
12:50	wkmanire	sorry
12:51	wkmanire	ibdknox: Any plans for a part 2 of your video?
12:51	wkmanire	I'd really like to see more about that last view you presented.
12:51	ibdknox	I think if there were to be a part 2 it would be showing it working in JS
12:51	wkmanire	Actively showing how what you're hacking on affects the rest of your code.
12:52	mdeboard	I didn't realize that was ibdknox
12:52	mdeboard	I didn't even watch the video
12:52	ibdknox	dude
12:52	ibdknox	how could you not watch the video? :p
12:52	ibdknox	haha
12:52	wkmanire	Can't believe I said light box. That cheesy javascript image display that ended up on half of the internet for a few years.
12:52	mdeboard	I'm typical internet person
12:53	ibdknox	dnolen: biggest bang for the buck would be JS don't you think?
12:53	dnolen	ibdknox: yeah definitely should target JS.
12:53	ibdknox	I might kickstarter it just to see what happens
12:54	dnolen	ibdknox: there's lots of really fast JS parsers in JS now that generate JSON AST. Now's a good time to try it.
12:54	ibdknox	I looked at esprima, any other suggestions?
12:54	ibdknox	Esprima looked good
12:54	dnolen	ibdknox: esprima was the new hotness at JSConf
12:54	ibdknox	k
12:55	ibdknox	longer term I was thinking closed source until launch, then open maybe with a pay what you want model (assuming kickstarter can make it worth the time I'd have to put into it)
12:56	ibdknox	hopefully open source and money don't have to be mutually exclusive lol
12:57	wkmanire	ibdknox: If your IDE is well accepted and becomes a standard tool
12:57	wkmanire	it'll get stolen one way or another.
12:57	ibdknox	yeah
12:58	wkmanire	Microsoft manages to get around that by sueing their customers.
12:58	wkmanire	:D
12:58	ibdknox	lol
12:59	wkmanire	ibdknox: What about making it an HTML5 app?
12:59	ibdknox	it is one :)
12:59	wkmanire	So you can start a subscription service.
12:59	ibdknox	eh
12:59	wkmanire	and have levels of features.
12:59	ibdknox	you want to run it locally
12:59	ibdknox	real-time + internet = meh
13:00	ibdknox	real-time + 0latency = win
13:00	dnolen	ibdknox: I would at least try putting it on KickStarter. If you say you will open source it and it will target JS who knows what could happen?
13:01	ibdknox	dnolen: yeah, very ambiguous territory
13:01	wkmanire	ibdknox: :) Well one way or another I hope you make money off of it.
13:01	wkmanire	I want to see people make money for good ideas open-source or not.
13:01	wkmanire	I'm all for open source but programmers have to eat.
13:03	dnolen	ibdknox: one question is whether you actually want to write the whole thing in JS :)
13:05	devn	ibdknox: id drop a dime into a kickstarter for light table fwiw
13:05	mdeboard	Yeah, ditto.
13:05	mdeboard	A literal dime, but.
13:06	devn	ibdknox: as long as clojure/script is the first environment and js the second :)
13:06	ibdknox	dnolen: yeah, that's the question
13:06	yoklov	couldn't you write it in cljs and target js?
13:06	mdeboard	I'd like to get kenneth reitz, ibdknox and mitchell hashimoto together in a single company
13:06	dnolen	ibdknox: personally I'm not excited about writing big projects in JS anymore.
13:06	dnolen	ibdknox: I do not envy the Meteor guys at all.
13:07	ibdknox	dnolen: I never was ;)
13:07	dnolen	ibdknox: wise man
13:07	ibdknox	dnolen: I don't have to write it in JS really, just a JS parser service backend
13:07	ibdknox	the cool thing is that the interface will be scriptable in anything that compiles to JS :)
13:07	ibdknox	so clojurescript and JS get to work together mostly for free
13:08	dnolen	ibdknox: definitely - but that might probably limit the JS OSS interest.
13:09	dnolen	ibdknox: might not matter at all as long as people can extend via pure JS.
13:09	ibdknox	the architecture I was thinking of would extremely plugin oriented so you could just right your own thing to replace the ClojureScript one if you wanted all JS all the time
13:10	dnolen	ibdknox: ok that's pure win then.
13:10	ibdknox	wow that was full of fail. would be* write*
13:10	dnolen	ibdknox: that would be a real gift to JS and CLJ/S
13:10	ibdknox	dnolen: yeah
13:10	yoklov	if you did it in cljs it would boost interest in cljs
13:10	ibdknox	it would help everybody
13:10	ibdknox	yoklov: definitely
13:11	dnolen	ibdknox: so Noir on Node? ;)
13:11	ibdknox	haha
13:11	ibdknox	do you know if there's a packaging story for the node runtime yet?
13:11	ibdknox	that's the one thing I'm worried about
13:13	dnolen	ibdknox: not really. No one's owned the Node stuff, it could be really awesome I think.
13:14	ibdknox	dnolen: hm have to figure out a lot there then :/
13:14	dnolen	ibdknox: what packaging issues do you forsee?
13:17	ibdknox	dnolen: nothing specific: just distributing the binary (for each platform) and such
13:18	ibdknox	just a use case that I don't think anyone's had yet and that makes it a little scary - it's always that last 20% that kills you
13:18	ibdknox	lol
13:18	Hali_303	when in emacs REPL, how to make it forget all uses and requires? just as if I've restarted it
13:22	dnolen	ibdknox: well with CLJS you can avoid Node's module system for you own stuff. The only missing bit I think is a good Node REPL, which at most a couple of days of focused work.
13:24	ibdknox	so you don't think the distribution will be a problem then? I remember always having to build from source
13:24	dnolen	ibdknox: oh - but as far as shipping Light Table I'm not sure there's much else you would need beyond what CLJS provides.
13:24	dnolen	ibdknox: Node?
13:24	dnolen	ibdknox: binaries for all major platforms now.
13:27	ibdknox	ah, well then I'm not worried about that anymore
13:50	yoklov	well this might be/is an really noobish question but, i'm making a (totally static) cljs page and i'm getting a security error because i'm trying to load an image from elsewhere (e.g. in a local subfolder) and get it's imagedata. I know from experience that this is because i'm not serving anything and i'm just loading the html into my browser, so… what's the best way for me to serve a few static files locally?
13:57	dnolen	yoklov: probably ring or noir
14:01	ibdknox	yoklov: hm.. as long as it's relative to the current file, that should just work
14:02	yoklov	ibdknox: nope. I've had this issue before too
14:02	ibdknox	hm
14:02	clojurebot	excusez-moi
14:02	yoklov	it works if served but gives me "Unable to get image data from canvas because the canvas has been tainted by cross-origin data." and "SECURITY_ERR: DOM Exception 18"
14:02	yoklov	otherwise
14:02	ibdknox	bah, stupid browsers
14:03	yoklov	yup.
14:03	ibdknox	well lein noir new blahblah and drop it in resources/public/ and you're done
14:04	ibdknox	then just go to localhost:8080/myhtml.html
14:09	yoklov	i actually ended up just using a 6 line node.js script to serve the files, noir seemed like overkill
14:10	muhoo	is there any facility in either lein1 or lein2 to specify :repl-port as a per-USER configuration variable instead of per-project?
14:10	yoklov	still, thanks
14:22	ibdknox	well
14:27	ibdknox	I think light table is going to happen :)
14:27	ibdknox	with a vision far larger than even the ultimate IDE
14:29	crassus	ibdknox: that's awesome
14:30	eggsby	ibdknox: SMALLTALK DID IT FIRST!
14:30	eggsby	:p
14:30	ibdknox	man
14:30	ibdknox	that stuff kind of pissed me off
14:30	ibdknox	lol
14:30	ibdknox	They didn't do it. If they had, we'd all be using it ;)
14:31	ibdknox	I think people underestimate the value of execution when they see such things
14:31	ibdknox	of course, now I have to execute to prove that :)
14:31	eggsby	meh, if anyone can it's you, certainly have the track record for it
14:36	ferd	ibdknox: yes! you read my mind. Go for kickstarter!
14:36	muhoo	well, smalltalk did do a lot of it, but it was UGGLAY.
14:37	ibdknox	muhoo: the design of the thing is the thing (to me)
14:37	muhoo	every used squeak? it's like 80s retro night
14:37	ibdknox	haha
14:38	ibdknox	wow
14:38	ibdknox	a friend asked me in how many countries that post has been seen in
14:38	mdeboard	all
14:38	ibdknox	the answer is 156
14:38	muhoo	most of technology goes in circles. people rediscover and reinvent stuff that existed generations ago. but with a new look, and a new flavor.
14:39	ibdknox	the only large-ish landmasses not accounted for are in central africa
14:39	muhoo	look, we are using a lisp, ffss!
14:39	ibdknox	lol
14:39	Bronsa	lol
14:40	muhoo	so, this is the right time for this. you're in for a wild ride.
14:41	ibdknox	indeed
14:42	ibdknox	it'll be interesting
14:45	ferd	so? where's the kickstarter link? The closest match for "light table" is a bed lamp
14:45	muhoo	compaare and contract lighttable with this: http://bace.s3.amazonaws.com/itwasdonefirst.jpg
14:45	muhoo	contrast, feh
14:45	ibdknox	I would argue that doesn't accomplish the same thing
14:47	fliebel	samaaron: Did you find a solution for the serial thing?
14:47	muhoo	it's a non-debate really, anyway, a hipster-ish kind of complaint "i was into it before it was cool!"
14:48	ibdknox	haha
14:48	ibdknox	very true
14:48	ibdknox	damn those smalltalk hipsters ;)
14:49	muhoo	good luck. success often finds people in places they least expect it.
14:55	ibdknox	https://twitter.com/#!/ibdknox/status/191236200768610305 :)
14:57	LauJensen	Fine, now kickstart it
14:57	rads	ibdknox. like. I will contribute when the kickstart is up
14:58	LauJensen	Did you guys catch the Pebble project on Kickstart?
14:59	ibdknox	yep
15:03	ferd	ibdknox: I guess you've seen Code Bubbles? http://www.andrewbragdon.com/codebubbles_site.asp just for ideas
15:10	autodidakto	ferd: ibdknox's voice is much better than the Code Bubbles guy. That's how I decide IDEs, anyway
15:12	ferd	autodidakto: #-)
15:12	gfredericks	what is a good name for a macro that is like quote but allows ~ and ~@?
15:14	xeqi	like syntax-quote?
15:14	gfredericks	but without the expansion and the foo# stuff
15:15	autodidakto	Don't be shy -> fred-quote
15:15	gfredericks	ha
15:15	gfredericks	quoot
15:16	xeqi	unhygienic-quote ?
15:16	ferd	soft-quote
15:16	gfredericks	dirty-quote
15:16	gfredericks	ferd: is there something by that name in scheme?
15:16	ferd	dunno
15:16	gfredericks	google time
15:16	gfredericks	man that's a worthless search term
15:21	ferd	regarding quoting: '() is to (quote) as ` is to ... ?
15:21	Bronsa	there is no macro equivalent
15:21	gfredericks	&(read-string "`()")
15:21	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/list)
15:22	Bronsa	` is hard-coded in the reader
15:22	xeqi	ferd: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3704372/how-does-clojures-syntax-quote-work
15:22	gfredericks	but the unquoting feature can be extracted
15:23	ferd	thanks... hmm that's cheating ;-)
15:27	gfredericks	there's always qu00t
15:28	ferd	gfredericks: misquote
15:28	gfredericks	haha
15:28	ferd	gfredericks: or... scare-quote
15:28	gfredericks	o_O?
15:28	gfredericks	oh scarecrow
15:29	ferd	ahh, no... a scare quote
15:29	ferd	google for it
15:30	gfredericks	that is an odd thing to not know about
15:30	ferd	gfredericks: hey... and English not my native language
15:30	gfredericks	sometimes that can make you more attentive
15:31	ferd	gfredericks: it's not that I "think out of the box"... I AM outside of the box ;-)
15:32	gfredericks	heh
15:32	ferd	ok then, I vote for "misquote"
15:33	gfredericks	okeedoke
15:33	ferd	I like soft-quote, but is too formal
15:33	gfredericks	the other choice was ##(format "lib-%04d" (rand 10000)), which is what I normally name things
15:33	lazybot	java.util.IllegalFormatConversionException: d != java.lang.Double
15:33	gfredericks	wut
15:33	gfredericks	the other choice was ##(format "lib-%04n" (rand 10000)), which is what I normally name things
15:33	lazybot	java.util.IllegalFormatWidthException: 4
15:34	gfredericks	I give up
15:37	mfex	gfredericks, look into gensym
15:37	gfredericks	the function?
15:37	mfex	yeah for the lib-%04d stuff
15:37	ferd	gfredericks: it's rand-int
15:38	gfredericks	ferd: oh duh
15:38	ferd	##(format "lib-%04n" (rand-int 10000))
15:38	lazybot	java.util.IllegalFormatWidthException: 4
15:38	gfredericks	&(lib-%04d" (rand-int 10000))
15:38	ferd	##(format "lib-%04n" (rand-int 1000))
15:38	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string
15:38	lazybot	java.util.IllegalFormatWidthException: 4
15:38	ferd	hmm
15:38	gfredericks	&("lib-%04d" (rand-int 10000))
15:38	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
15:38	gfredericks	&(format "lib-%04d" (rand-int 10000))
15:38	lazybot	⇒ "lib-9833"
15:38	gfredericks	finally
15:39	mfex	&(gensym "lib-")
15:39	lazybot	⇒ lib-7119
15:39	mfex	&(str (gensym "lib-"))
15:39	lazybot	⇒ "lib-7127"
15:39	gfredericks	that's not quite random though
15:40	mfex	it's unique
15:40	gfredericks	I'd hate for my lib names to be dependent on lazybot usage history
15:41	mfex	hmm, not sure what your use-case is :)
15:41	gfredericks	naming libraries
15:41	Null-A	wow light table is still on HN
15:41	Null-A	i've never seen something get 1300 points
15:42	Null-A	i wonder how many of those people are interested in clojure though
15:53	gfredericks	Okay, pushed up misquote: https://github.com/fredericksgary/misquote
15:53	gfredericks	now to find that guy who needed this yesterday
15:56	mdeboard	Are '-' characters invalid in namespace definitions?
15:56	mdeboard	e.g. (ns some-namespace) ?
15:56	gfredericks	no...
15:56	gfredericks	they'se used all the time
15:56	mdeboard	Yeah, I'm just confused about an error I'm getting.
15:57	gfredericks	are you forgetting where they get converted to underscores?
15:58	mdeboard	Forgetting would imply that at one time I knew
15:58	gfredericks	:) package names and filepaths
15:58	gfredericks	i.e., the things java touches
15:58	mdeboard	https://gist.github.com/2677328cfb1dc72c19ec
15:58	mdeboard	ah
15:59	gfredericks	hm; that's weird
16:02	mdeboard	I'm stumped as to why I can't run this uberjar.
16:06	mdeboard	Anyone have any insight into why I get the error message at the bottom here https://gist.github.com/12d2e610c321e1d51dce with the rest of the code above it?
16:07	ferd	gfredericks: I actually needed "misquote" not long ago for this macro: http://goo.gl/bvUHI . I ended up using '~ all over the place
16:10	gfredericks	ferd: clearly the world has been yearning for it
16:12	xeqi	mdeboard: try adding :impl-ns dat-doop.core to your :genclass
16:14	mdeboard	xeqi: No change.
16:16	mdeboard	It feels like every blog post about Clojure was written in 2010
16:16	gfredericks	those are the ones that have been around long enough for google to know that they're good
16:16	LauJensen	mdeboard: Yea I know. I should really change that :)
16:17	mdeboard	gfredericks: Yeah, but there have been plenty of changes both to Clj and Lein since then
16:17	xeqi	gen-class is converting the ns to a package (- to _). I guess its then reconverting that to the ns to look for the methods
16:17	xeqi	*not reconverting
16:20	mdeboard	xeqi: So that sounds like if I remove the hyphen it should resolve the problem
16:22	gfredericks	jayunit100: I wrote you a macro for your quoting needs
16:45	sgarrett\|afk	Hello #clojure. I'm kind of confused. I'm using bigint however when I try to call methods from the java class I'm getting an error. Does anyone know why this would be happening? I'm getting an error when doing the example code here: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/bigint
16:46	gfredericks	sgarrett\|afk: is it the clojure bigint class instead?
16:46	gfredericks	&(type (bigint 84))
16:46	lazybot	⇒ clojure.lang.BigInt
16:47	gfredericks	wait unless that's what you meant by "the java class"
16:47	gfredericks	my point is there's two bigint classes to be confused by
16:48	Bronsa	,(.isProbablePrime (.toBigInteger (bigint 97)) 1)
16:48	clojurebot	true
16:48	gfredericks	(-> (BigInteger "83492948924398248289489243") .nextProbablePrime)
16:48	gfredericks	,(-> (BigInteger "83492948924398248289489243") .nextProbablePrime)
16:48	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Expecting var, but BigInteger is mapped to class java.math.BigInteger>
16:48	gfredericks	,(-> (BigInteger. "83492948924398248289489243") .nextProbablePrime)
16:48	clojurebot	83492948924398248289489297
16:48	gfredericks	I love numbers
16:48	Bronsa	,(.isProbablePrime (biginteger (bigint 97)) 1)
16:48	clojurebot	true
16:48	Bronsa	,(.isProbablePrime (biginteger 97) 1)
16:48	clojurebot	true
16:48	Bronsa	derp
16:51	sgarrett	I see. Well I'm working with binary numbers is why I guess I'm running into the issue. I was declaring the numbers like 2r1111111111111111000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 and then I wanted to call toByteArray so that I could go through each bit. So I have to convert to biginteger?
16:51	sgarrett	Just want to make sure there isn't a better way I guess.
17:34	groovemonkey	quick question, because #leiningen is extremely quiet...
17:34	groovemonkey	I just added a /data directory to the root of my lein project.
17:34	groovemonkey	Now 'lein run' produces a FileNotFound Exception for the files
17:34	groovemonkey	that I've moved to the new directory. How do I add this
17:34	groovemonkey	directory to those that Leiningen knows about?
17:39	yoklov	i think it's something like :resources-path "data/" in project.clj
17:39	yoklov	or just rename the directory to resources/
17:43	sgarrett	Is there a way to do a bit-and on a BigInt?
17:44	groovemonkey	yoklov: sorry, didn't see until now. Thanks, I'll try that.
17:44	yoklov	lol, don't worry about it. hope it works.
17:54	groovemonkey	didn't work :( -- I tried setting the :resources-path to "resources/" and "data/" respectively -- it seemed to get leiningen looking in the right place, but it still throws a FileNotFound Exception: could not locate <classfile> or <correct/path/to/file.clj> on classpath.
17:55	groovemonkey	is there a way to add things manually to the classpath?
18:04	jayunit100	hmm is there a way i can look up all functions that have args related to a given type ?
18:04	jayunit100	i.e. All clojure.core functions which operate on sequences .
18:08	amalloy	functions don't have types
18:09	jayunit100	yeah thats the trouble. But it is true that some functions are type constrained.
18:09	Raynes	Yes, but not in a way that you can actively check for.
18:09	jayunit100	(assoc '(1 2 3) 0 1) ---> fails (because lists aren't associative).
18:10	jayunit100	ok.. oh well i guess i can use doc-find
18:10	amalloy	well, you can try http://www.clojureatlas.com/, or the clojure cheatsheet
18:10	jayunit100	(find-doc) i mean. Yeah the atlas is a good resource.
18:14	octagon	whoa @clojureatlas
18:14	octagon	awesome
18:17	octagon	is there a doc that describes all of the clojure means of abstraction, with a rundown of where each one is and is not appropriate/useful? i'm trying to get the big picture view.
18:18	gfredericks	jayunit100: did you see my thing-I-said two hours ago?
18:22	gfredericks	octagon: some of the essays on clojure.org might be helpful?
18:24	octagon	gfredericks: yes, i was looking for the lazy way; i guess i need to compile my own notes from there, anyway
18:26	gfredericks	&(let [a (make-array Byte/TYPE 50)] (dotimes [n (count a)] (aset a n 5)))
18:26	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: aset
18:26	gfredericks	what on earth is going on there
18:30	amalloy	(instace? Byte/TYPE 5)
18:30	amalloy	&(instance? Byte/TYPE 5)
18:30	lazybot	⇒ false
18:30	gfredericks	oh hm
18:31	gfredericks	that makes total sense in hindsight
18:31	amalloy	&(let [a (make-array Byte/TYPE 10)] (dotimes [n (count a)] (aset a n (byte 5))) (seq a))
18:31	lazybot	⇒ (5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5)
18:31	gfredericks	I will never know the exact conditions under which java numbers can be converted to other types.
18:31	muhoo	base 5, eh?
18:32	gfredericks	somehow I was convinced I was using dotimes wrong
18:32	gfredericks	that it was acting like doto for some perverse reason
18:35	amalloy	gfredericks: well, it's confounded by the fact that clojure has its own type-conversion rules
18:35	gfredericks	that does sound confounding
18:37	muhoo	don't java numbers have their own static Num/toFoo methods for converting to the things they're allowed to be converted to?
18:41	amalloy	so i learned something new about java today. for some values of Foo and bar, you can write (without causing an NPE):
18:41	amalloy	Foo x = null;
18:41	amalloy	x.bar();
18:58	huangjs	hmm... there's lein-clojurescript and lein-cljsbuild, which one would you recommend?
19:06	muhoo	there's also cljs-template. and clojurescriptone. i'd love to know how all this stuff fits together (or doesn't).
19:18	mads-	Hi. Does anyone know where I can find clojure.jar if I have downloaded clojure through apt-get install clojure?
19:19	lynaghk	huangjs: you want lein-cljsbuild.
19:20	amalloy	mads-: start with apt-get uninstall clojure :P
19:20	amalloy	or remove, i guess? i don't uninstall stuff that often
19:20	mads-	amalloy: aaand theen? :)
19:21	amalloy	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5983427/how-to-install-clojure-on-ubuntu-10-04-from-github-repo-with-no-clojure-jar
19:21	amalloy	see also the leiningen readme
19:23	mads-	thanks
19:25	muhoo	what's the advantage of using midje versus clojure built-in test machinery?
19:29	huangjs`	lynaghk: thanks
19:34	jayunit100	,(assoc (vector-of :char) 0 "s")
19:34	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
19:34	jayunit100	odd error message.
19:35	jayunit100	Understandable... but i think it should simply report that "" is not a char.
19:35	gfredericks	that looks like the jvm's doing
19:37	jayunit100	Well... so is everything :)
19:38	jayunit100	But the difference here is that, in java, the statement ------ new Vector<Character>().add('c') ; ----- would not compile.
19:38	jayunit100	I mean, new Vector<Character>().add("c") ; .....
19:39	jayunit100	So I think it should be a :pre assert ~ that the assoc value is the same type as the assoc enum.
19:40	dnolen	bbloom: heya, could you create a patch for the column modifications to the Clojure compiler?
19:40	bbloom	hey
19:40	bbloom	i'm working on both my patches right now
19:40	bbloom	the track-pos patch for the cljs compiler is a pain in the butt to maintain
19:40	bbloom	each time you change the compiler, i have a lot of work to redo :-P
19:41	dnolen	bbloom: yeah sorry about that. that's why I want to get it in now.
19:41	bbloom	yup
19:41	bbloom	shouldn't be long, but i may get interrupted
19:41	bbloom	you going to be around for a while?
19:41	dnolen	bbloom: probably not for too much longer this evening - but as soon as you have a new patch I will test and apply.
19:42	bbloom	ok great
19:42	bbloom	i'll probably finish the cljs change, but i don't know if i'll get to the clj reader one
19:43	sparkleshy	is there any better way to do C-like static locals than wrapping the defn in a let or using def inside the defn?
19:43	bbloom	dnolen: do you have good test cases for your recent optimizations? the variadics, the dynamics, etc?
19:43	dnolen	bbloom: sure, a clj reader patch would be nice so it passes Andy's prescreening script
19:43	bbloom	because i don't think my twitter test covers them & i'm merging those conflicts now
19:43	amalloy	sparkleshy: def inside defn is evil and also not anything like static locals
19:44	amalloy	i don't see how you could want something "better" than wrapping the defn with a let - that's about as good as it could possibly be
19:44	bbloom	dnolen: i can make a patch for the clj reader, but it's highly untested :-) if the concern is to meet the prescreener, that's no problem
19:44	bbloom	but if you want it to work… that's another story ;-)
19:44	bbloom	my patch did build and pass the tests when i made my github branch tho
19:44	dnolen	bbloom: no tests for the optimizations - my assumption was that all the current tests should just work :)
19:44	bbloom	i just didn't dig in to make sure it's solid & covers everything i need it to cover
19:44	jayunit100	what are the limits on lazy-seq ?
19:45	jayunit100	in terms of its inputs -
19:45	raek	sparkleshy: you want to maintain state between function calls?
19:45	sparkleshy	amalloy: I know, it's _so_ evil.
19:45	dnolen	bbloom: sure but having the patch is a good reference point.
19:45	bbloom	k
19:45	dnolen	bbloom: also people can easily apply and get to work on the source mapping stuff.
19:45	bbloom	k
19:45	raek	jayunit100: anything seqable is fine
19:46	jayunit100	so what im wondering though is - how can it gaurantee laziness ?
19:46	dnolen	bbloom: by actually working on source mapping I think we can discover what's missing.
19:46	dnolen	bbloom: it was reassuring that you patch was good enough for Light Table ;)
19:47	raek	sparkleshy: using global state: (def state (atom 0)) (defn next-number [] (swap! state inc))
19:47	jayunit100	I mean, if I have function which returns a list ... And it precalculates all 10 vals in the list --- then its not really lazy, is it
19:47	bbloom	dnolen: I didn't realize that it was used for that
19:47	bbloom	awesome! :-)
19:47	sparkleshy	raek: Not between; more like (let [rand (java.util.Random.)] (defn gaussian (.nextGaussian rand))). Which is bad code but it's an example.
19:47	sparkleshy	raek: Er, put a [] after gaussian
19:48	raek	(def ^{:private true} rand (java.util.Random.)) is another way
19:48	jayunit100	IS there a "loop-recur" aware lazy seq that invokes the loop, caching state between invocations ? That would be "true" laziness.
19:49	raek	jayunit100: you can easily translate a function that is implemented using loop, recur, and cons into one that is lazy
19:49	jayunit100	i.e. something like the python "yield" idiom.
19:49	sparkleshy	raek: I know, I can do a def outside, but I wish I could keep my internal data inside because it feels cleaner and stuff.
19:49	raek	I think the let is fine in that case
19:50	bbloom	dnolen: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-960
19:50	sparkleshy	raek: The real issue is that with code folding, the def is completely hidden by the let.
19:50	dnolen	bbloom: excellent thx
19:50	sparkleshy	raek: But the let is part of the implementation of the def, not the other way around
19:50	bbloom	ant succeeds, didn't check anything else
19:51	dnolen	bbloom: Andy's prescreener will catch problems.
19:51	raek	jayunit100: let's assume you have this: (loop [n 5, result []] (if (zero? n) result (recur (dec n) (conj result n)))
19:51	bbloom	cool
19:51	bbloom	back to untangling this compiler emit stuff :-)
19:52	dnolen	bbloom: thx very much.
19:52	jayunit100	raek okay good start -> how to lazify it
19:52	jayunit100	?
19:53	jayunit100	The problem of course is that loop/recur will recur all 5 times inside the function body , unless you wrap it in a macro or something .
19:53	raek	the lazy variant would then be: (letfn [(f [n] (lazy-seq (if (zero? n) nil (cons n (f (dec n))))))] 5)
19:54	raek	the difference is that each step gets wrapped in a lazy-seq
19:54	raek	and that the recursive call is not done using 'recur'
19:54	raek	and the result is not built up using an accumulator variable
19:55	sgarrett\|afk	Is there a way to bit-and with a BigInt?
19:55	jayunit100	hmm but this function would have to be manually iterated.
19:56	jayunit100	Is there a way to make it more decoupled - so that it simply emits the next value , repeatedly.
19:56	raek	in a way, that's what f does here
19:56	jayunit100	hm okay me analyze it some more and get back .
19:57	raek	you can think of lazy-seq as yield and seq as a call to a generator
19:57	raek	well, rougly
19:58	raek	here's a function defined in many equivalent ways: https://gist.github.com/951633
19:58	sparkleshy	summary: is there any better way to do C-like static locals than wrapping the defn in a let or just doing another def outside? Not for keeping state between calls; more like (let [rand (java.util.Random.)] (defn gaussian [] (.nextGaussian rand))). Which is bad code but it's an example. Since the let is part of the implementation of the def, I want it inside, and I want only the def to appear when using code folding.
19:59	raek	sparkleshy: no.
20:00	gfredericks	sparkleshy: (def my-fun (let [rand ...] (fn [] (.nextGaussian rand))))
20:00	gfredericks	if you can tolerate def instead of defn
20:00	sparkleshy	gfredericks: cool! but I want something better. Like (defn gaussian [] (.nextGaussian (cache (java.util.Random.))))
20:02	gfredericks	sparkleshy: there are definitely some ugly-ass ways to do something like that
20:02	raek	it is definitely possible to write such a cache macro, though
20:02	gfredericks	raek: could even be a function
20:02	gfredericks	that just does a bunch of offensive global mutation
20:03	sparkleshy	but with a function wouldn't it create another Random each time through gaussian?
20:03	raek	in the current form, it looks like you only would like the argument to 'cache' to be evaluated once
20:03	gfredericks	sparkleshy: my guess is that at this point every possible way of giving you what you want would be quite unidiomatic
20:04	sparkleshy	gfredericks: So... this thing I want is inherently bad?
20:04	gfredericks	the main issue is code folding? i.e., you want the first line to summarize the thing?
20:05	raek	well, you could make (cache foo) expand into (cache* (fn [] foo)), where cache* is a function
20:06	gfredericks	raek: I think you have to do some kind of global mutation, whether it's a macro or function
20:06	sparkleshy	gfredericks: It wouldn't be actually clean without an implementation of the cache macro
20:06	sparkleshy	what about (defmacro cache [exp] (let [sym (gensym)] (eval `(def ~sym ~exp)) sym)) ?
20:06	raek	gfredericks: yes.
20:07	raek	which would add runtime overhead, I guess
20:07	raek	since the function would need to check if the value has been calculated
20:09	gfredericks	I guess it all seems very sneaky
20:10	sparkleshy	okay. That implementation works.
20:11	sparkleshy	in (println "hi") (cache (println "beta")) can I rely on hi printing before beta?
20:12	sparkleshy	also, is the way it uses def going to cause performance issues vs the previous wrap-the-defn-in-a-let solution?
20:12	sparkleshy	i mean, in really intensive code. Like, is performance _ever_ something to worry about with the cache macro?
20:14	gfredericks	I don't think there are any performance issues there
20:14	gfredericks	it should be equivalent to using an explicit top-level (def)
20:14	gfredericks	everything else happens at compile-time
20:17	sparkleshy	yeah... rephrase: would (let [rand (java.util.Random.)] (defn gaussian [] (.nextGaussian rand))) be any slower than (def rand (java.util.Random.)) (defn gaussian [] (.nextGaussian rand)) ?
20:17	gfredericks	the let might be faster since there's no var involved
20:18	gfredericks	but I don't know much about those things
20:23	bbloom	sigh waiting on the v8 compile…. i sometimes forget how much i appreciate instantaneous development feedback
20:24	dnolen	bbloom: haha, though v8 build time isn't so bad.
20:24	bbloom	i'm on a year old macbook air
20:24	bbloom	my poor little cpu can't handle it :-)
20:24	bbloom	my big bad machine is at the office
20:25	dnolen	bbloom: heh oh yeah. As much as I like the MB Air, having a 2.66 dual core i7 has it's perks.
20:26	gfredericks	debugging aleph is hard :(
20:27	bbloom	dnolen: i'm seeing something a bit odd with cljs compiler output (before my changes), maybe you can explain
20:27	dnolen	bbloom: it will be a happy day when we can debug CLJS right in the browser.
20:27	dnolen	bbloom: hopefully browsers will support some JSON syntax highlighting description format.
20:27	dnolen	bbloom: what's up?
20:27	bbloom	i'm seeing a few calls to cljs.core.get.SOMEGENSYM
20:27	bbloom	what's that about?
20:28	dnolen	bbloom: __N, direct multi arity dispatch support
20:28	bbloom	ah ok
20:29	bbloom	for my debugging diffs, i have been using sed to rewrite gen syms so they don't show up on diffs
20:29	bbloom	but it can be confusing b/c ALL THE GEN SYMS LOOK THE SAME :-)
20:29	bbloom	hehe
20:29	bbloom	thanks
20:31	bbloom	and nice work on all the recent perf improvements
20:31	bbloom	good stuff!
20:32	lynaghk	dnolen: yeah, those performance improvements were boss.
20:33	dnolen	bbloom: lynaghk: thanks!
20:35	lynaghk	dnolen: what's the story with the GSoC stuff, by the way?
20:36	dnolen	lynaghk: I just sent out an email about that on clojure-dev, we need to pick up the pace a bit, 9 more days to review and score etc.
20:36	dnolen	lynaghk: we've been allocated 4 slots, which is nuts for a first time mentoring organization.
20:36	lynaghk	I sent you an email a while back about the students who contacted me---I dunno if you want me to reproduce that on Melenage. (I thought it'd be safer to send you an email than try and figure out how to write something private on that terrible UI)
20:37	lynaghk	dnolen: guess Google is excited about the ()'s
20:37	dnolen	lynaghk: all admins and mentors can leave private comments.
20:37	dnolen	lynaghk: Melange is so lame.
20:38	dnolen	lynaghk: I our crop of proposals was surprisingly strong.
20:38	dnolen	Clojure programmers don't mess around.
20:38	lynaghk	dnolen: okay, I might poke around and put some updates on Melenage then. I really want the students to actually write some code before I feel like moving ahead.
20:38	dnolen	I "think our proposals" I mean.
20:38	lynaghk	dnolen: yeah. I particularly liked Chris Granger's difficulty level of "medium to insane".
20:39	lynaghk	Go big or go home.
20:39	ibdknox	lynaghk: it's true
20:39	dnolen	lynaghk: yes, please go through the proposals thoroughly, even ones you aren't mentoring.
20:39	ibdknox	a choose your own adventure of sorts ;)
20:40	dnolen	anything that doesn't have a mentor at this point isn't something we should consider.
20:40	bbloom	dnolen: so the column numbers are pretty easy to screw up if with-out-string or anything like that gets used
20:40	dnolen	bbloom: but nobody should be using that right?
20:40	bbloom	dnolen: i'm tracking down one new issue now… but i'm trying to think about how to prevent this going forward
20:40	bbloom	dnolen: right
20:41	bbloom	k think i got it
20:41	bbloom	my little column-aligned line number comment trick is good enough for now
20:41	bbloom	a bug or two may creep in before source-maps gets implemented proper
20:41	bbloom	but visual inspection will do until then
20:42	lynaghk	If I write {:a @(future (x)) :b @(future (y))} will the calls to x and y be executed in parallel?
20:42	ibdknox	dnolen: light table just passed Meteor in points on HN
20:42	dnolen	bbloom: cool, your changes are nice, it's a necessary step for decoupling the compiler from JS any how.
20:42	dnolen	ibdknox: not surprising, Light Table is way more impressive IMHO.
20:43	bbloom	dnolen: thanks. they also clean up a few small things. in the output: a few less random blank lines, eliminates some redundant parens, cleans up spacing. in the compiler code: fewer (println (str ….)) with teh various extra ()() forms :-)
20:49	michaelbarton	I have a beginner's question. I'm trying to create a lazy sequence from a file but I'm getting either OutOfMemory (heap) errors or stream closed errors. I feel like there must be an idomatic way for this that I'm missing.
20:51	michaelbarton	The stream closed errors come when I try to wrap the reader in a with-open block.
20:53	bbloom	dnolen: ok, ready with patch for track-pos
20:53	bbloom	struggling with git format-patch tho :-P
20:54	S11001001	michaelbarton: dynamic scope and laziness mix weirdly
20:54	bbloom	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/616556/how-do-you-squash-commits-into-one-patch-with-git-format-patch :-)
20:55	S11001001	if you like, you can do this instead, just note that unless you consume the whole input, the stream won't close: (concat my-lazy-seq (lazy-seq (.close stream) nil))
20:56	michaelbarton	OK. Thank you for the suggestion.
20:56	bbloom	dnolen: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-176
20:57	michaelbarton	How does the concat work in that function?
20:58	arohner	is there a fn like partition, but splits the seq into n equal sized seqs?
21:01	bbloom	,(doc partition-all)
21:01	clojurebot	"([n coll] [n step coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of lists like partition, but may include partitions with fewer than n items at the end."
21:01	bbloom	that what you mean?
21:01	gfredericks	arohner: oh you want something where the partition size is based on the length of the sequence?
21:01	arohner	gfredericks: yes
21:01	gfredericks	arohner: I don't think there is anything built in; would not be lazy-friendly
21:02	gfredericks	(partition (quot (count coll) n) coll)
21:02	michaelbarton	arohner: Divide the length of the sequence by n, then partition by n size?
21:02	arohner	yes. I know how to implement it, I was just checking that it didn't exist yet
21:02	michaelbarton	arohner: OK
21:11	dnolen	bbloom: thx a million. gotta run but will give this a serious look tomorrow and try to appy then.
21:11	dnolen	Clojure community rocks.
21:11	bbloom	:-)
21:25	socksandsandals	really n00b question here: if I have (def foo 12) in a file, how does one go about later changing that variable's value?
21:25	socksandsandals	should I just (def) it again later?
21:25	S11001001	socksandsandals: try not to change it ever
21:26	socksandsandals	exactly the answer I wasn't looking for
21:26	S11001001	socksandsandals: so, as a newbie, you may be reaching for solutions appropriate in other languages, but not clojure
21:26	S11001001	I can't be sure, so I err on the side of caution
21:26	S11001001	typically, vars are only changed during development
21:26	socksandsandals	I'm a n00b to Clojure, not programming or Lisp
21:27	S11001001	right, that's what I said
21:27	socksandsandals	so I have a shutdown function that isn't determined until runtime
21:27	S11001001	if your program, while running, requires changes to global state, then setting a var is the wrong solution
21:27	socksandsandals	so I need to assign it to something to hold on to it for when I go to shutdown the server
21:28	S11001001	instead, you probably want an atom, ref, or future, depending on the concurrency semantics you desire
21:28	S11001001	s/future/agent/
21:28	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
21:28	S11001001	in this case, it sounds like you want an atom
21:28	socksandsandals	there's no concurrency involved in this case which is why I was wondering if I could just rebind the def
21:28	socksandsandals	but an atom would work, too
21:28	socksandsandals	thanks S11001001
21:28	S11001001	np
21:29	socksandsandals	S11001001: if an atom holds a function, I can still call it with just @atomname, right?
21:30	S11001001	(@atomname args...)
21:30	socksandsandals	yeah, ok nice, thanks
21:30	socksandsandals	right, Clojure is a Lisp1 so no need for apply
21:30	socksandsandals	perfect
21:30	S11001001	funcall, rather
21:30	socksandsandals	oh right
21:37	S11001001	I wish it had funcall, anyway; sometimes it's just what you need for some HOF. Same for this: (defn first-arg [x & _] x)
21:38	gfredericks	(def first-arg (comp first list))
21:38	S11001001	gfredericks: strict in the rest
21:38	S11001001	having written first-arg 3 or 4 times, and $ (funcall) at least once
21:39	gfredericks	S11001001: you mean it realizes any lazy-seq-args?
21:39	S11001001	aye
21:40	gfredericks	,(doc list)
21:40	clojurebot	"([& items]); Creates a new list containing the items."
21:40	gfredericks	,(-> (range) (apply list) (first))
21:40	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
21:40	gfredericks	,(->> (range) (apply list) (take 10) last)
21:41	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
21:41	gfredericks	well wudduyaknow
21:41	S11001001	clojure.walk depends on it
21:42	michaelbarton	I'm struggling to process a 2.5m line file.
21:42	michaelbarton	I'm trying to create a set and a map from the data but I'm running out of memory
21:43	S11001001	michaelbarton: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure/FC36I1iqZcs/discussion
21:44	michaelbarton	Interesting, I am working on a graph too.
21:44	michaelbarton	Thank you.
21:45	S11001001	gfredericks: not only does it realize them, it constructs a proper PersistentList structure, setting aside whatever conses/chunkedseqs/magic bits you had
21:45	S11001001	(that is what clojure.walk required)
21:46	S11001001	michaelbarton: especially beware if you first walk the whole list creating the set, then again creating the map. That won't let go of the source lazy sequence, whereas doing them together will
21:46	gfredericks	that structure being just a vanilla linked list?
21:46	S11001001	gfredericks: it is also counted
21:47	gfredericks	oh nice
21:47	S11001001	I guess
21:47	S11001001	I'm against wasting all the bits really, but oh well
21:52	fdaoud	,(first (map / [1 1] [2 0]))
21:52	clojurebot	1/2
21:52	S11001001	huh, weird
21:52	S11001001	,1/0
21:52	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.ArithmeticException: Divide by zero>
21:52	S11001001	,(do 1/0 nil)
21:52	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.ArithmeticException: Divide by zero>
21:52	fdaoud	,(first (map #(%) [#(/ 1 2) #(/ 1 0)]))
21:52	clojurebot	#<ArithmeticException java.lang.ArithmeticException: Divide by zero>
21:52	fdaoud	why does the first version work but not the second? (lazy)
21:53	S11001001	oh, right
21:53	S11001001	because the variadic map doesn't do fancy tricks for chunked
21:53	fdaoud	huh?
21:53	S11001001	you only get fancy tricks in the one-sequence case
21:53	S11001001	the multi-sequence version is naive, and doesn't do chunking
21:54	fdaoud	so lazy is only lazy by chunks?
21:55	S11001001	in general, laziness cannot be relied upon to be "pure". There are exceptions, like iterate
21:55	S11001001	for efficiency, vectors yield "chunked" sequences, therefore lazy operations on them also "chunk" if someone implemented that
21:56	fdaoud	,(first (map #(%) (concat (repeat 1000 #(/ 1 2)) [#(/ 1 0)])))
21:56	clojurebot	1/2
21:56	S11001001	map, filter, and several other operations special-case for the chunking case
21:56	fdaoud	I understand, thanks for the explanation S11001001
21:56	michaelbarton	Is there a way to increase the java memory size from inside a clojure program?
21:56	fdaoud	if it wasn't for you I would not have slept tonight.
21:57	S11001001	happy to help then :)
21:57	fdaoud	,(first (map #(%) (concat (repeat 100 #(/ 1 2)) [#(/ 1 0)])))
21:57	clojurebot	1/2
21:57	fdaoud	,(first (map #(%) (concat (repeat 10 #(/ 1 2)) [#(/ 1 0)])))
21:57	clojurebot	1/2
21:59	S11001001	,(count (chunk-first (seq (concat [1 2 3] (vec (range 35))))))
21:59	clojurebot	3
22:00	S11001001	,(count (chunk-first (seq (chunk-rest (seq (concat [1 2 3] (vec (range 35))))))))
22:00	clojurebot	32
22:00	S11001001	,(count (chunk-first (seq (chunk-rest (seq (chunk-rest (seq (concat [1 2 3] (vec (range 35))))))))))
22:00	clojurebot	3
22:00	S11001001	,(count (chunk-first (seq (chunk-rest (seq (chunk-rest (seq (concat [1 2 3] (vec (range 39))))))))))
22:00	clojurebot	7
22:00	S11001001	concat is good
22:01	mdeboard	Does anyone else have trouble with Cascalog in Emacs?
22:01	mdeboard	Get a lot of weird errors
22:01	mdeboard	program just constantly throws errors after awhile any time I try to run anything.
22:03	mdeboard	runs out of memory, seems like.
22:04	S11001001	michaelbarton: if there is, it's probably buried in JMX somewhere, but I really doubt it
22:05	mdeboard	Speaking of, how DO You set -Xmx/-Xms for slime ?
22:08	S11001001	probably by setenv JVM_OPTS in emacs
22:08	mdeboard	orite
22:12	michaelbarton	OK. I'm running the script using the clj shebang so I'm not sure how to increase the memory.
22:13	S11001001	never used that. Never installed clojure, honestly
22:13	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
22:13	michaelbarton	Perhaps java environment arguments.
22:14	michaelbarton	Never installed clojure?
22:14	S11001001	nope
22:14	michaelbarton	How do you use it?
22:14	S11001001	I use leiningen
22:15	michaelbarton	Ah, I see.
22:15	S11001001	you could do this #!/bin/sh\ntrue; SOMEENV=someval clojure-thingy "$0" "$@"
22:15	S11001001	with an exec in there somewhere
22:16	michaelbarton	Is it easy to create short scripts with lein?
22:16	S11001001	maybe not, but I would do it that way anyway
22:17	S11001001	#!/bin/sh\njava -cp `cd my-proj && lein classpath` clojure.main -e '(run this)'
22:18	michaelbarton	OK
22:18	S11001001	I love libraries
22:18	S11001001	and I bet the #! thing doesn't work well with them
22:19	michaelbarton	I tried lein previously. I found the learning curve a little steep so I'm using scripts until I'm more comfortable with clojure.
22:19	S11001001	I can't speak to the efficacy of that approach
22:19	michaelbarton	OK
22:23	mdeboard	michaelbarton: Yeah you really don't want to futz with running clojure itself. Use lein
22:26	S11001001	I would agree, but I love build systems and emacs, so maybe I am the wrong one to ask
22:27	michaelbarton	OK
22:27	michaelbarton	My script is only 19 lines long so it seemed ling using a clj shebang was simpler
22:29	S11001001	it may end up 19 lines long, but you also have to write it :)
22:33	michaelbarton	I guess I'll try playing about with trying to make my script more lazy, then otherwise make in in lein.
22:33	S11001001	good luck
22:33	michaelbarton	Does clojure GC automatically clear up unused variables?
22:34	michaelbarton	I mean no longer used.
22:34	S11001001	do you mean vars created by def or bindings created by let?
22:34	bbloom	4clojure.com is down :-( trying to work through a problem or two a day :-P
22:35	michaelbarton	def variables after they're used and not referenced again.
22:35	S11001001	michaelbarton: no
22:36	michaelbarton	OK
22:36	michaelbarton	I should use an atom instead, then clear it?
22:36	S11001001	hmm, what are you trying to do?
22:37	aperiodic	yeah, if you use an atom and then change its value, the old value will be GC'd if there are no other references to it
22:37	michaelbarton	I have pairs of key/values and I need to covert them to a network format. The problem is key1-key2 and key2-key1 need to be merged to a single value.
22:38	S11001001	data in general shouldn't be stored in vars at all; vars are best for your functions, static data, and dynamic context bindings. So if this is intermediate state, you should usually just pass it between functions
22:38	michaelbarton	OK
22:39	bbloom	michaelbarton: if you're concerned with leaking memory during interactive development, you can use ns-unmap
22:39	bbloom	that will "delete" the Var
22:40	michaelbarton	OK
22:40	michaelbarton	Thank you both.
23:07	TimMc	$mail samaaron I don't know if I'll get aorund to making the Overtone instrument-samples doc tool anytime soon, so that idea is free to a good home. :-)
23:07	lazybot	Message saved.