#clojure – 2012-03-31

2012-03-31

00:00	ibdknox	it's neat and a wonderful source of documentation :)
00:01	autodidakto	ibdknox: documentation?
00:01	ibdknox	it has an epic wiki
00:01	ibdknox	brenton did great work on that
00:01	autodidakto	ah
00:04	johnkpaul-afk	oakwise: great, thank you!
00:04	johnkpaul-afk	very happy to not only know that it wasn't just me going crazy, but also that someone could fix it so soon
00:06	autodidakto	ibdknox: reading the google group thread on the pinot separation. I agree with the need of an awesome united wiki/documentation for Noir/Pinot :)
00:06	ibdknox	none of the new libs have had an official release yet :)
00:08	autodidakto	ibdknox: you're overworked, delegate
00:09	ibdknox	that's likely what will need to happen at some point soon
00:09	ibdknox	I seem to only be getting busier
00:46	gtrak``	is there a complement to group-by that inverts the relationship, vals are what's returned from the function?
00:46	qbg	inverts how?
00:47	gtrak``	with group-by, original seq is the vals, i want the original seq to be the keys
00:47	qbg	Returns a map of val -> group?
00:49	gtrak``	I suppose I could just reduce assoc, but that's lame
00:49	qbg	So you want a result like {:a [:a], :b [:b :b :b]} for example?
00:49	ibdknox	gtrak``: I don't understand what you're asking for
00:50	gtrak``	just... inputs [:a :b :c :d], result is {:a (f :a) :b (f :b) ...}
00:50	qbg	Check out zipmap
00:51	qbg	&(let [x [1 2 3 4]] (zipmap x (map inc x)))
00:51	lazybot	⇒ {4 5, 3 4, 2 3, 1 2}
00:51	gtrak``	ah, perfect
00:51	gtrak``	i remember people hating on zipmap, just found this to look at though: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6135764/when-to-use-zipmap-and-when-map-vector
02:06	muhoo	so if i were to try to use a persistent store for sessions in noir, it looks like session.clj just stores sessions in a map in an atom
02:06	muhoo	so, what kind of database would i use that has functions like assoc, get, swap!, and reset!
02:07	muhoo	or rather, that'd work with those core clojure functions.
02:12	muhoo	hmm, there's this i see now: https://gist.github.com/1565647
02:17	ibdknox	muhoo: just use a different session store
02:17	ibdknox	like the mongo one: https://github.com/amalloy/mongo-session/blob/develop/src/mongo_session/core.clj
02:18	muhoo	ok, thanks
02:28	muhoo	hee hee hee. try this if you dare: https://refheap.com/paste/1603
02:28	muhoo	warning: don't try it on a repl that has history or data you care about
02:30	muhoo	&(use '[ring.middleware.session.store :only [SessionStore]])
02:30	lazybot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate ring/middleware/session/store__init.class or ring/middleware/session/store.clj on classpath:
02:30	muhoo	good
02:32	muhoo	print_r() in php has it, ffs, so i'm sure it can be done in clojure too
02:42	muhoo	aha! (set! print-level 15)
02:48	emezeske	If anyone ran into issues with lein-cljsbuild 0.1.4 with hooks enabled: I just released 0.1.5, which should fix that.
05:11	adriann	halo
07:33	tomoj	js2-mode highlights lines with a warning "Code has no side effects" :)
08:35	frankvilhelmsen	/who sam
08:36	AimHere	/whois frankvilhelmsen
08:38	solussd_	I was thinking, it would be nice to have pre/post condition support in protocol declarations. Right now the best I can do is describe in the docstrings for the protocol functions what the implementor is suppose to do, but the protocol cannot enforce any details of the interface- notably its input and output. :/
08:47	gfredericks	solussd_: I can imagine a macro that does that
08:48	gfredericks	no I can't
08:48	solussd_	gfredericks: I can't think of a way to do it using a macro around defprotocol
08:48	solussd_	b/c I want to be able to (defrecord …. Protocol .. implementations)
08:48	gfredericks	yeah that's why I retracted
08:49	solussd_	;)
08:49	gfredericks	so if we redef one of the protocol functions after defining the protocol, does that either crash or somehow screw things up?
08:53	solussd_	hmm
08:54	gfredericks	also I think fogus's relevant library does stuff with adding constraints afterwards
08:54	gfredericks	though that's not any more obviously bound to succeed
10:21	gortsleigh	In Korma, is it possible to specify entity relationship for something like table 'song' with column 'artistid' that joins to table 'artist' on (song.artistid = artist.id) ??
10:21	lazybot	gortsleigh: Uh, no. Why would you even ask?
10:43	bork	given a list of maps, how can I find the map with the maximum :x value?
10:44	gfredericks	hm
10:45	gfredericks	&(first (sort-by (comp - :x) [{:x 12} {:x 18} {:x -8}]))
10:45	lazybot	⇒ {:x 18}
10:46	AimHere	Something like &(reduce #(if (> (%1 :x) (%2 :x)) %1 %2) {:x 1} {:x 14} {:x 17})
10:46	gfredericks	that's not the most efficient way, but the linear-time solution might require some custom loop code or something
10:46	gfredericks	or reduce :)
10:47	gfredericks	I knew there'd be something
10:47	AimHere	&(reduce #(if (> (%1 :x) (%2 :x)) %1 %2) [{:x 1} {:x 414} {:x 17}])
10:47	lazybot	⇒ {:x 414}
10:47	AimHere	The more I play with clojure, the more I like reduce
10:47	bork	thanks!
10:47	bork	right after i asked the question, i remembered about reduce
10:47	bork	yay reduce!
10:48	bork	... for some reason it didn't occur to me to think about the 2-parameter case first
10:48	bork	is there an easy to find the first local maximum in a list?
10:49	gfredericks	reduce! or loop if you want to short circuit
10:49	gfredericks	no wait there's a lazy way too i think
10:50	bork	maybe i could do something like
10:50	gfredericks	"local maximum" just means element greater than both neighbors right?
10:50	gfredericks	&(partition 3 1 (range 5))
10:50	bork	yeah
10:50	lazybot	⇒ ((0 1 2) (1 2 3) (2 3 4))
10:50	gfredericks	so doing that ^ would be a good pr-step
10:50	gfredericks	pre-step
10:50	bork	oh, and then i could use 'some'
10:50	gfredericks	yeah something like that
10:51	gfredericks	(def first-local-max (comp (partial some #(...)) (partial partition 3 1))) :D
10:52	gfredericks	bork: you don't need it here I was just indulging in some point-free play
10:52	gfredericks	but it's good to know about
10:57	the-kenny	Hey, I just wrote a small elisp function to run lein-cljsbuild in a dedicated Emacs buffer. As a bonus you get "Build {succeeded,failed}" messages in the minibuffer: https://gist.github.com/2265584
10:57	the-kenny	Might be useful for some people
11:06	bork	gfredericks: also came up with (defn localmax [x & xs] (if (and xs (< x (first xs))) (apply localmax xs) x)
11:26	gfredericks	bork: I think that particular impl would eat a lot of stack
11:26	Phallah-	&(let [some-datum (list (symbol "I worship His Shadow"))] (= some-datum (read-str (print-string some-datum))))
11:26	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: read-str in this context
11:26	Phallah-	&(let [some-datum (list (symbol "I worship His Shadow"))] (= some-datum (read-string (print-str some-datum))))
11:26	lazybot	⇒ false
11:26	Phallah-	Burp
11:26	Phallah-	So ehhh
11:27	Phallah-	does Clojure have support for multiple value return?
11:31	progo	using the usual datastructures is idiomatic
11:34	Zoka	Phallah-: yes, just return them in a vector
11:35	Bronsa	Phallah-: spaces in symbol are not supported
11:35	Phallah-	Okay, I take that as a no then.
11:35	Phallah-	But thanks for assuming I'm stupid.
11:35	Phallah-	Bronsa, I know
11:35	bork	gfredericks: oh, okay! i don't have a good understanding of how the builtin functions work
11:35	Phallah-	that is what makes it burpidurp
11:35	Bronsa	oh.
11:35	Phallah-	Because (symbol "Some spaces and tralalala"
11:35	bork	(yet)
11:36	Phallah-	Doesn't signal an error
11:36	Phallah-	&(symbol? (symbol "Burp herp derp"))
11:36	lazybot	⇒ true
11:36	Phallah-	I beg to differ!
11:36	Bronsa	oh, that bugs me too
11:36	Phallah-	Quite
11:36	Phallah-	I love a man who gets bugged by this kind of stuff
11:37	Phallah-	&(print (list (symbol "This doesn't quite do what one expects"))
11:37	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading, starting at line 1
11:37	Phallah-	&(print (list (symbol "This doesn't quite do what one expects")))
11:37	lazybot	⇒ (This doesn't quite do what one expects)nil
12:20	muhoo	fliebel__: i haven't written stuff to use it, but i use ols, which seems a lot more reliable since they switched from rxtx to purejavacomm, fwiw
12:21	fliebel__	muhoo: https://github.com/nyholku/purejavacomm/pull/5 :/
12:21	fliebel__	(= fliebel pepijndevos)
12:22	muhoo	nice
12:23	fliebel__	Anyway, after writing half of clojure.core in Python, writing my DPScope interface was fairly easy.
12:25	muhoo	!
12:25	muhoo	what, greenspun's law?
12:25	fliebel__	$google greenspun's law
12:25	lazybot	[Greenspun's tenth rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun's_tenth_rule
12:26	muhoo	also, i looked at that patch, didn't see any change to that case statement excelt indentation, afaict
12:27	fliebel__	muhoo: The change is that I don't use the case statement, on Mac, we twiddle some ioctl parameters instead.
12:48	muhoo	huh. maybe a bsd termios vs linux termios difference.
12:49	muhoo	still, imagine trying to fix that in rxtx?
12:51	muhoo	fliebel__: did you build your own dpscope or buy one?
13:26	fliebel__	muhoo: buy one
13:31	Phallah-	&(apply vector [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]])
13:31	lazybot	⇒ [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]]
13:32	Phallah-	&(map vector [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]])
13:32	lazybot	⇒ ([[1 2 3]] [[4 5 6]] [[7 8 9]])
13:32	Phallah-	&(apply map vector [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]])
13:32	lazybot	⇒ ([1 4 7] [2 5 8] [3 6 9])
13:34	Iceland_jack	Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convolution_%28computer_science%29#In_programming_languages
13:39	mbriggs	hey guys, using noir (wrapper on top of compojure), do you know if there is any way to set both the response status code and the content type?
13:39	mbriggs	the noir.response ns seems to just do one thing for each method
13:41	mbriggs	nvm, was reading response.clj, and set-headers is low level enough to do multiple things
13:45	xeqi	mbriggs: I think you can use ->> to thread them
13:47	RickInGA	I am working through ch 2 in the reasoned schemer, and I wasn't sure why this code gave me an error: https://refheap.com/paste/1614
13:50	oakwise	dnolen: how are you testing the browser repl against cljs HEAD? It seems broken in either `cljsbuild repl-listen` or started manually in 1006 and 1010, but works in 993 for me.
13:52	cjfrisz	RickInGA: what error are you getting?
13:53	RickInGA	It says it can't create ISeq from a logic var
13:54	RickInGA	if I write it as (cons x (cons y ()) I get (grape (a)) because y resolves to the list '(a)
13:54	cjfrisz	Right
13:55	RickInGA	&(cons 'a '(b))
13:55	lazybot	⇒ (a b)
13:55	cjfrisz	I've used a fair amount of miniKanren in Scheme but never core.logic and this sounds like a Clojure-specific problem
13:55	cjfrisz	So it might be a question specifically for dnolen unless I'm overlooking something
13:55	xeqi	RickInGA: have they introduced conso in chp 2?
13:56	RickInGA	xeqi yes
13:56	cjfrisz	He should be able to use cons there
13:56	cjfrisz	And "Reasoned" uses cons there specifically
13:56	xeqi	ah
13:57	cjfrisz	The point is supposed to be that a grounded logic variable is just a normal value.
13:59	RickInGA	xeqi: does work there.
13:59	RickInGA	er, conso does work there
14:00	cjfrisz	You shouldn't have to use conso
14:01	jonasen	RickInGA: in clojure, cons takes a seq as its second argument. In scheme both the car and the cdr can be any object
14:01	cjfrisz	Yes...but why wouldn't y be a sequence in this case?
14:01	RickInGA	jonasen: so it is not recognizing the lvar as a seq, even though it has been set to (a)
14:02	jonasen	RickInGA: yes (i think so)
14:02	jonasen	You could simply do (== [x y] r)
14:03	RickInGA	ah, I needed lcons
14:05	cjfrisz	I see
14:05	RickInGA	I don't understand why y wasn't a sequence, but like jonasen said, it didn't have to be a sequence in scheme… lcons allows you to cons even if the second item isn't a seq
14:05	RickInGA	https://github.com/clojure/core.logic/wiki/Differences-from-The-Reasoned-Schemer
14:05	mk	,(doc lcons)
14:05	clojurebot	No entiendo
14:06	RickInGA	thanks all for the help!
14:06	mk	,(cons 1 [2 3])
14:06	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
14:07	mk	[2 3] isn't a seq either, but perhaps I've missed something important mentioned above
14:07	RickInGA	mk: I may have used 'seq' improperly… vectors do implement ISeq, which is the relevant fact
14:08	xeqi	&(seq? [2 3])
14:08	lazybot	⇒ false
14:08	RickInGA	&(sequable? [2 3])
14:08	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: sequable? in this context
14:08	RickInGA	&(sequential? [2 3])
14:08	lazybot	⇒ true
14:29	weavejester	Gah, someone "lein push"ed my project before I did :(
14:37	simard	hello, I have a clojure sandbox in which I have a few functions defined. The init is done from the main thread and I then start a swank server wrapped in a future. I gain access to the sandbox through emacs and issue some commands: https://gist.github.com/2267395
14:37	simard	I can see the function jump is defined in the sandbox, but whenever I define a new function (asdf), jump disapears
14:38	simard	there's probably something basic I don't understand about threads here, can anyone help ?
14:46	dnolen	oakwise: yes, I think brenton's last commit may have messed things up.
14:46	dnolen	oakwise: I emailed him, hopefully we can get that sorted out with a new release.
14:47	oakwise	dnolen: great
15:14	TimMc	weavejester: Ouch. rotary?
15:14	weavejester	TimMc: Yeah, hopefully it'll be sorted out soon
15:15	weavejester	TimMc: Until then I'll just push to org.clojars.weavejester/rotary
15:26	gtrak``	what's the best guide for a step debugger? I have some hairy code that's hard to test
15:32	aperiodic	gtrak``: i usually just use debug-repl https://github.com/GeorgeJahad/debug-repl
15:32	gtrak``	ah, neato
15:33	gtrak``	but it doesn't step
15:45	aperiodic	yeah, i usually just stick it where i'd stick breakpoints in a stepping debugger
15:46	hugod	gtrak``: ritz does stepping, though I think cdt does too
15:46	aperiodic	you can terminate it by evaluating the empty list, and then control passes back to your code
15:47	gtrak``	i think i figured it out, i'm doing stuff that cares about identity, so things that shouldn't be equal are evaluating equal.. :/ hammock time
15:51	gtrak``	basically, trying to do some simple rigid body collisions and failing :-), I tried to build maps of game objects to corresponding rigid-bodies, but it got complicated, I might just add a key to the game object for the rigid body instead
15:58	TimMc	My kingdom for a step debugger that lets me inspect return values.
16:02	jayunit100	user=> (derive ::rect ::shape)
16:02	jayunit100	nil
16:02	jayunit100	user=> (derive :rect :shape)
16:02	jayunit100	java.lang.AssertionError: Assert failed: (namespace parent) (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
16:02	jayunit100	Curious -> what is the "double colon" doing ?
16:03	Bronsa	,::a
16:03	clojurebot	:sandbox/a
16:03	RickInGA	jayunit100: I believe :: resolves to a namespace
16:03	RickInGA	s/resolves/qualifies/
16:03	Bronsa	it qualifies the keyword to the current namespace
16:04	Bronsa	,(= ::a (keyword (str ns) "a"))
16:04	clojurebot	true
16:05	jayunit100	,(= ::a (keyword (str ns) "a"))
16:05	clojurebot	true
16:05	jayunit100	,(= :a (keyword (str ns) "a"))
16:05	clojurebot	false
16:05	fliebel__	$mail samaaron Am I correct that your RxTx does not include parallel natives? :( had to figure that out on a 800MHz Windows machine.
16:05	lazybot	Message saved.
16:05	Bronsa	:a is not namespace qualified
16:05	Bronsa	(= :a :sandbox/a)
16:05	Bronsa	,(= :a :sandbox/a)
16:05	clojurebot	false
16:05	Bronsa	,(= ::a :sandbox/a)
16:05	clojurebot	true
16:06	gfredericks	,(= :a (keyword "a"))
16:06	clojurebot	true
16:06	jayunit100	why do i need to qualify a namespace for a multimethod
16:06	jayunit100	shouldnt the qualification be local to the dispatcher ?
16:08	jayunit100	hmmm maybe im not thinking about this the right way :0
16:09	jayunit100	,(::a)
16:09	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to keyword: :sandbox/a>
16:09	jayunit100	,::a
16:10	clojurebot	:sandbox/a
16:10	gfredericks	$doc derive
16:10	jayunit100	okay --- so why does a have to be namespaced for a multimethod ?
16:10	gfredericks	,(doc derive)
16:10	clojurebot	"([tag parent] [h tag parent]); Establishes a parent/child relationship between parent and tag. Parent must be a namespace-qualified symbol or keyword and child can be either a namespace-qualified symbol or keyword or a class. h must be a hierarchy obtained from make-hierarchy, if not supplied defaults to, and modifies, the global hierarchy."
16:10	jayunit100	aha
16:10	jayunit100	so derive doesnt work if the parent is NOT namespace-qualified.
16:11	gfredericks	sounds like both have to be qualified
16:11	jayunit100	so ... what is the namespace qualification buying us ?
16:11	gfredericks	well at least for the global hierarchy
16:11	gfredericks	it is ensuring you don't affect other stuff going on elsewhere in the program
16:11	gfredericks	that's my guess
16:12	gfredericks	why it matters with an explicit hierarchy...dunno
16:12	gfredericks	maybe just for consistency? :/
16:16	yoklov	jayunit100, i think its just normal collision detection stuff. if you derive something in a hierarchy and then someone does that later, they could accidentally override one of your bindings (derivations?)
16:17	yoklov	if its namespace qualified that won't happen
16:17	jayunit100	yeah ok that makes sense
16:17	jayunit100	it, unfortunately, complicates my ability to adopt the theory behind multimethods though. accidental complexity rears its ugly head.
16:18	yoklov	what's happening?
16:18	jayunit100	trying to figure out why multimethods are more effective then run-of-the-mill polymorphism (i.e. c++ java style)
16:19	yoklov	it gives you more flexible dispatch
16:19	yoklov	e.g. multiple dispatch
16:19	yoklov	(or more). in c++/java you'd use the visitor pattern for this, which is far more complex
16:20	gfredericks	not to mention dispatching on arbitrary functions is more general than always and only dispatching on type
16:20	yoklov	^
16:21	yoklov	multimethods are one of my favorite features of clojure, but i rarely use them in a way similar to OO
16:21	jayunit100	in java, you can delegate using class annotations combined with reflection . right ?
16:21	yoklov	err, what?
16:22	jayunit100	Well.. i guess even then you still have to "check" each classes annotation values, which would amount to the visitor pattern.
16:22	yoklov	sounds ugly.
16:22	yoklov	multimethods are much cleaner.
16:23	yoklov	(and if you don't need a hierarchy you don't need namespace qualify your keywords)
16:23	jayunit100	can you elaborate on the last statement ?
16:23	yoklov	oh
16:23	jayunit100	"(and if you don't need a hierarchy you don't need namespace qualify your keywords)"
16:23	yoklov	if you never use derive
16:23	yoklov	theres no problem.
16:24	yoklov	(defmulti foo some-function-which-returns-a-non-namespace-qualified-keyword) (defmethod :bar …) etc.
16:25	jayunit100	... i guess im still wondering --> how can you compare java object's polymorphism with that of a clojure function's ploymorphism.
16:25	yoklov	i mean the hierarchies are certainly powerful, but you don't need them in every case
16:25	yoklov	oh
16:25	jayunit100	java functions are polymorphic w/ their primitives.
16:25	jayunit100	s/primitives/arguments
16:26	yoklov	that's the same as a multimethod whose dispatch function is class
16:26	jayunit100	the dispatching is done for you by method name and args alone, and confirmed at compile time .
16:26	yoklov	well, i don't really think that when it occurs effects the semantics a lot
16:27	yoklov	and clojure functions can already dispatch on number of args, if you want type of args or type confirmation… clojure's a dynamic language
16:29	yoklov	if you want something like that protocols are what you should look into anyway.
16:30	jayunit100	ah i see . the magic is in the dispatching function.
16:31	jayunit100	thats what i was missing
16:31	yoklov	the magic is that you can provide an arbitrary one
16:31	jayunit100	yeah.
16:31	yoklov	not just "on type"
16:31	jayunit100	so, if we only dispatch on the # of args and their types its equivalent to java.
16:31	yoklov	right.
16:31	yoklov	even then
16:31	jayunit100	thanks mister yoklov :)
16:31	yoklov	np
16:35	jayunit100	yeah , these multimethods are nice - we define a function in the dispatcher, and then
16:35	jayunit100	we simply match the output of the function to predicates in each "case"
16:36	jayunit100	can the "cases" be predicates themselves ?
16:36	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
16:36	gfredericks	I think they're just values
16:36	gfredericks	else things that are values and functions would be ambiguous
16:36	jayunit100	how did clojurebot know that i was rambling ? :)
16:36	gfredericks	clojurebot is very attentive
16:36	jayunit100	ha. so ... what about wildcards.
16:37	gfredericks	I think you can give a default implementation
16:37	yoklov	:default
16:38	yoklov	you can also do something like [::foo ::bar ::baz], and it will dispatch against each in turn (e.g. if those all derived from ::frob, it would match [::frob ::frob ::frob] also)
16:39	jayunit100	so, a dispatcher will run multiple methods at one time? its not just a greedy first match -> run .
16:39	yoklov	no
16:40	yoklov	you'd need a
16:40	yoklov	(defmulti [::frob ::frob ::frob] …) for that
16:40	yoklov	*for my example
16:40	yoklov	and if there are 2 matches you need to do prefer-method
16:40	jayunit100	(doc defmulti)
16:40	clojurebot	"([name docstring? attr-map? dispatch-fn & ...]); Creates a new multimethod with the associated dispatch function. The docstring and attribute-map are optional. Options are key-value pairs and may be one of: :default the default dispatch value, defaults to :default :hierarchy the isa? hierarchy to use for dispatching defaults to the global hierarchy"
16:40	yoklov	whoops
16:40	yoklov	(defmethod [::frob ::frob ::frob])
16:41	yoklov	is what i meant.
16:41	yoklov	and then a function name too.
16:41	jayunit100	ah ok
16:41	yoklov	(defmethod some-method [::frob ::frob ::frob]) there.
16:42	jayunit100	I think that method would only run if the result of the function was [::frob :: frob ::frob]
16:43	yoklov	or a 3-element vector of things which decend from ::frob
16:43	gfredericks	I don't think I've ever heard of someone making extensive use of the hierarchy feature
16:43	yoklov	no, me neither
16:44	gfredericks	let's rip that out into a library and add a function that tests if an item is in a collection
16:45	yoklov	hm?
16:46	gfredericks	bad joke
16:48	yoklov	lol, it's okay
16:48	ferd	I need to do String interpolation and found strint: https://github.com/clojure/core.incubator/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/strint.clj
16:48	ferd	is it available anywhere as a maven artifact?
16:49	gfredericks	ferd: I think there are some unofficial snapshots on clojars
16:49	gfredericks	no guarantee they've got that exact code
16:49	ferd	gfredericks: thanks... will check
16:50	gfredericks	ferd: I assume you already know about clojure.core/format?
16:52	ferd	gfredericks: yes, thanks. I like strint better though
16:53	gfredericks	it does look interesting
16:55	ferd	I need to do templates, and they'd look cleaner with string interpolation
16:56	ferd	(format ) has its uses though... mmm... if you need to actually "format" each value (alignment, numer decimals, etc)
16:56	gfredericks	huh
16:57	gfredericks	I guess if you want to emit a "~(" you can do "~(str \"~(\")"
16:59	ferd	:-\ should have a way to escape, like \~
17:00	gfredericks	just read through the code, don't think so
17:00	gfredericks	I like ~~ as an escape better though
17:02	ferd	gfredericks: agreed... Clojure uses \ for escaping within strings right? so... it would require two backslashes to work
17:02	gfredericks	exactly
17:02	gfredericks	and ~~ covers pretty much all cases and is unambiguous I think
17:03	gfredericks	like %% in format strings
17:04	jayunit100	im trying to run the string partition function from the repl... but its breaking because the repl is tring to run the numerical partition function.
17:04	jayunit100	I assume clojure.contrib.string.partition wont work -- to obvious. :)
17:05	RickInGA	jayunit100 you can require the string ns and give it an alias
17:06	jayunit100	alias?
17:06	gfredericks	(:require [clojure.contrib.string.partition :as spart])
17:06	jayunit100	can i just reference it explicitly ?
17:06	jayunit100	rather than aliasing, id like to reference the function inline .
17:07	gfredericks	then at least require the ns regularly
17:07	jayunit100	(clojure.contrib.string.partition "a" "AabC")
17:07	jayunit100	so ... there is no way to reference the partition function explicitly ?
17:08	yoklov	clojure.contrib.string/partition ?
17:08	jayunit100	oh ooop
17:08	jayunit100	than
17:08	jayunit100	x
17:18	weavejester	If you have a function like… (fn [x & {:as opts}] …)
17:19	weavejester	Then apply doesn't work. Is there anything like apply that can be used instead?
17:19	weavejester	Or is it recommended not to have keyword arguments?
17:19	amalloy	weavejester: "apply doesn't work"?
17:20	amalloy	&(apply (fn [x & {:as opts}] (:x opts)) 1 '(:x 3))
17:20	lazybot	⇒ 3
17:20	weavejester	amalloy: Because (apply foo {:a 1, :b 2}) expands to (foo [:a 1] [:b 2])
17:20	amalloy	personally, i recommend using kwargs only at the outer shell of your api, and just pass around maps once you get any deeper
17:21	weavejester	Yeah, but I have a create-table and an update-table
17:21	weavejester	And I want to have a "ensure-table" that either creates or updates
17:21	weavejester	So all three are exposed to the user
17:22	weavejester	I wonder if I should just use maps instead of kwargs
17:22	amalloy	(defn update-table* [x opts] ...) (defn update-table [x & {:as opts}] (update-table x opts)), if you're married to this API
17:22	amalloy	(except you should probably fix the obvious error in that)
17:23	weavejester	Hm… I'm not married to the API. I could have (create-table cred "foo" {:hash-key "id", :range-key "date"}) instead of (create-table cred "foo" :hash-key "id" :range-key "date")
17:24	weavejester	Or even: (create-table cred {:name "foo" :hash-key "id" :range-key "date"})
17:25	amalloy	that also makes it easier for the user to store/load their options from some config file
17:26	amalloy	which is the kind of thing it sounds like your users will want to do
17:27	TimMc	~mapply
17:27	clojurebot	mapply is (defn mapply [f & args] (apply f (apply concat (butlast args) (last args))))
17:28	TimMc	weavejester: ^ shrug
17:29	weavejester	&(doc mapply)
17:29	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve var: mapply in this context
17:29	weavejester	I might just have everything use maps. Easier :)
17:30	amalloy	TimMc: your mapply factoid seems to be difficult for people to recognize
17:30	amalloy	clojurebot: forget mapply \|is\| (defn mapply [f & args] (apply f (apply concat (butlast args) (last args))))
17:30	amalloy	clojurebot: mapply \|is\| (defn mapply [f & args] (apply f (apply concat (butlast args) (last args))))
17:30	clojurebot	I forgot that mapply is (defn mapply [f & args] (apply f (apply concat (butlast args) (last args))))
17:30	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
17:30	amalloy	oops
17:32	amalloy	~mapply
17:32	clojurebot	You could (defn mapply [f & args] (apply f (apply concat (butlast args) (last args))))
17:32	TimMc	hrm
17:32	TimMc	Might be better, yeah.
17:46	jhickner	In my clojurescript code I keep wanting to use defrecord and extend it to Object so I can create "classes" with "instance methods". Is that bad practice? stuff like this: https://gist.github.com/2268831
17:49	arohner	jhickner: yes. Rather than thinking in instance methods, think of protocols as "properties this thing has"
17:50	arohner	so yes, sockets are a weird beast, but rather than putting (close) on websocket, consider a protocol Closable
17:50	arohner	that's if you're going to reuse these protocols at all
17:50	arohner	if not, just write fns that take sockets as arguments
18:03	amalloy	arohner: you're going to have to catch him during one of the brief periods between his logging-in and getting disconnected
18:05	jhickner	sorry, not sure why that's happening
18:23	devn	hm, im having issues with org-babel
18:23	devn	i can't seem it to give me a result of evaluation that isn't a table
18:24	devn	when i evaluate my begin_src block containing (+ 1 1) it prints the results as: \| \| 2 \|
18:25	gtrak``	you guys wanna see a shitty physics simulation written in clojure with quil for drawing? https://github.com/gtrak/quilltest just lein run it
18:27	gtrak``	wasd adds acceleration to the balls, q stops the game-loop, escape will kill the process
18:29	gtrak``	i'm still not sure why they only actually collide half the time :-)
18:38	lynaghk`	Does anyone know of decent clojure libs for interacting with webpages for scraping? Something like Mechanize from the perl/ruby worlds?
18:39	devn	anyone have any ideas? This is driving me a little crazy.
18:39	devn	lynaghk`: You can try enlive if you like, but to answer you question succinctly, no -- I do not believe something like that exists right now in Clojure
18:40	lynaghk`	devn: yeah, I was looking at enlive for tag matching, but I need to actually submit forms and such. I'm compiling PhantomJS right now, so I was just doing some idle daydreaming while waiting = )
18:44	y3di	what clojure podcasts besides mostlylazy exist?
18:44	RickInGA	think relevance
18:44	RickInGA	http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/tags/podcast
18:46	devn	lynaghk`: oh...well, i mean, there's clj-webdriver
18:46	devn	which is really nice, but maybe not what you need
18:46	devn	it's not headless
18:47	lynaghk`	devn: yeah, I need something headless.
18:48	lynaghk`	I am just googling around about using mechanize through jruby
18:48	lynaghk`	Any way to get jruby gems handled transparently using Lein?
18:54	gtrak``	this quil example I just made is also an example of an asynchronous update/draw loop, they run on separate threads
18:54	Araq	how does clojure deal with ambiguous multimethods? runtime exception?
18:54	gtrak``	the atom makes it super trivial
18:59	hugod	b
19:13	emezeske	dnolen: Is there an upstream case for the clojurescript repl issues?
19:14	dnolen	emezeske: I already emailed brenton - he's going to fix tonight, and they'll cut a release on Monday.
19:14	emezeske	dnolen: As usual, you da man!
19:15	devn	Araq: prefer-method
19:34	arohner	lynaghk`: webdriver can use htmlunit, which is headless, but isn't a full-featured browser
19:34	arohner	lynaghk`: similar to links
19:35	arohner	lynaghk`: also, https://github.com/detro/ghostdriver
19:37	arohner	another option is 'normal' webdriver + Xvfb
19:37	devn	doh, and here i was writing a simple wrapper around htmlunit for the last hour or two
19:38	devn	i think im gonna just keep working on it
19:39	arohner	the new clj-webdriver alphas with taxi are really nice
19:39	gfredericks	devn: something on github?
19:39	devn	gfredericks: not yet, ive been toying around with protocols, multimethods, and now im back to just simple fn wrappers
19:39	gfredericks	devn: threading-friendly fns? :)
19:40	devn	:)
19:41	gfredericks	(-> (start-browser "foo.com") (submit-form "#form" {...}) (should-see "made new foo"))
19:41	iwo	hey, does anyone know why when i run a clojure repl with jline, the prompt 'user=>' seems to confuse jline?
19:42	gfredericks	iwo: I think maybe we hate jline
19:42	gfredericks	but I could be wrong
19:42	devn	gfredericks: well, now that you mention it, i wasn't thread friendly for a bit because i had a (with-client) macro
19:42	gfredericks	devn: I don't know why I get fixated on that way of doing it
19:42	gfredericks	I wrote a library around that once
19:42	devn	it can be nice gfredericks but idk
19:42	devn	sometimes it can get too clever
19:42	iwo	when i use up-arrow to recall the previous command, the text displayed is not insync with reality
19:43	gfredericks	devn: it doesn't seem like a bad situation for a global
19:43	iwo	so when i move into the text with a cursor, i'm editing characters that are not the same as displayed
19:43	gfredericks	iwo: is installing rlwrap an option?
19:43	iwo	they're shifted because jline appears to not understand that there is a prompt 'user=>'
19:44	devn	gfredericks: i started with (def client (new WebClient))
19:44	iwo	gfredericks: i expect so, i'm just following a tutorial to set up a clojure dev environment and it recommends jline (i see it recommended quite a lot)
19:44	iwo	ctrl-R history would be very nice
19:45	gfredericks	iwo: do you see it recommended in writing less than 2 years old?
19:45	devn	i was thinking that way you could (with-client (make-client :other options :go here) (visit "http://www.google.com"))
19:45	gfredericks	(two years in real life is equivalent to fifteen clojure years)
19:45	devn	too much rumination
19:46	iwo	gfredericks: i think so: http://riddell.us/ClojureSwankLeiningenWithEmacsOnLinux.html
19:47	gfredericks	iwo: if using (and learning if necessary) emacs is a valid option, that is where the most happiness lies
19:47	gfredericks	I've never seen jline work not terribly
19:47	gtrak``	not the riddell.us tutorial, use the swank-clojure docs and leiningen
19:47	lazybot	The riddell.us tutorials are much more highly-ranked on Google than they deserve to be. They're old and way too complicated. If you're trying to install Clojure...don't! Instead, install Leiningen (https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/tree/stable) and let it manage Clojure for you.leiningen
19:52	iwo	thanks for the pointers
20:04	TimMc	technomancy: This is how work gets done at Heroku, right? https://bitbucket.org/spooning/
20:04	offby1	taught my wife to program that way.
20:05	gtrak``	haha
20:05	gtrak``	brilliant
20:05	offby1	guy I knew in college tried to teach some neighborhood kids that way ... he'll be eligible for parole in 2025
20:06	simard	amalloy: I have a clojure sandbox in which I have a few functions defined. The init is done from the main thread and I then start a swank server wrapped in a future. I gain access to the sandbox through emacs and issue some commands. If I now (defn) some function from swank, the otherwise already defined functions disapear. See: https://gist.github.com/2267395
20:06	TimMc	Heroku seems like just the sort of crunchy granola place where these advanced team methodologies could work.
20:06	simard	amalloy: does that ring a bell ? could multithreading be somehow responsible for that ?
20:07	offby1	mmm ... granola
20:07	mega`	hahaha
20:07	TimMc	(Hmm, "crunchy granola" isn't actually what I meant, but it's close enough in semantic space for my purposes.)
20:07	mega`	lovws ir :S
20:07	mega`	:D*
20:09	amalloy	i doubt if swank is relevant. threading might be, i dunno; the ablity to def in a sandbox is a feature only Raynes has really worked on. but i do know there's a queue of def'd things, and as you def new ones the older ones disappear
20:10	amalloy	(which, btw Raynes, i still think is pointless)
20:11	simard	a queue where def'd things disappear ?
20:11	simard	that sounds odd.
20:11	Frozenlo`	How does one force the evaluation of `map'? It returns a lazy sequence and I need it evaluated on the spot.
20:13	gfredericks	TimMc: perhaps you meant "soggy granola"?
20:14	gfredericks	Frozenlock: doall does that; I personally prefer doseq if you're using an anonymous function with your (doall (map ...))
20:16	simard	amalloy: max-defs 5
20:16	simard	no wonder !
20:16	simard	thank you
20:16	simard	yeah, I think it's pointless too, and, frustrating :D
20:17	Frozenlock	gfredericks: In this case I need to obtain the results. If I remember correctly doseq only returns nil. I'll try doall immediately!
20:17	gfredericks	Frozenlock: ah ha yes;
20:18	Frozenlock	gfredericks: Works as promised, thanks! :)
20:23	gfredericks	doall rarely makes a liar out of me
20:32	Frozenlock	Aw cmon! When I type the result (bound to 'tt') in the REPL, everything is fine, but when I do (spit "test.txt" tt), I get clojure.lang.LazySeq@91de0c38 in the file :(
20:37	TimMc	simard: Double/POSITIVE_INFINITY, perhaps :-)
20:44	Frozenlock	I think I found a solution.. `into' seems to evaluate everything.
20:44	devn	gfredericks: https://gist.github.com/bdc2f0729ea6d478ec08
20:44	devn	gfredericks: that's all ive really finished tbqh
20:46	TimMc	Frozenlock: doall really should work there
20:47	devn	gfredericks: (map attrs (take 3 (xpath (visit (make-client) "http://www.google.com") "//a")))
20:47	devn	=> ({:href "http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=ww", :id "gb_1", :class "gbzt gbz0l gbp1", :onclick "gbar.logger.il(1,{t:1});"} {:href "http://www.google.com/imghp?hl=en&tab=wi", :id "gb_2", :class "gbzt", :onclick "gbar.qs(this);gbar.logger.il(1,{t:2});"} {:href "http://video.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wv", :id "gb_12", :class "gbzt", :onclick "gbar.qs(this);gbar.logger.il(1,{t:12});"})
20:50	gfredericks	Frozenlock: when you're converting a data structure to a string pr-str might be helpful
20:51	TimMc	oh, that's the problem, yes
20:51	mega`	, [(str (range 0 5)) (pr-str (range 0 5))]
20:52	clojurebot	["clojure.lang.LazySeq@1b554e1" "(0 1 2 3 4)"]
20:52	gfredericks	,(str (doall (range 5)))
20:52	clojurebot	"clojure.lang.LazySeq@1b554e1"
20:52	mega`	&(doc pr-str)
20:52	lazybot	⇒ "([& xs]); pr to a string, returning it"
20:52	Frozenlock	Interesting...
20:52	gfredericks	&(doc pr)
20:52	lazybot	⇒ "([] [x] [x & more]); Prints the object(s) to the output stream that is the current value of out. Prints the object(s), separated by spaces if there is more than one. By default, pr and prn print in a way that objects can be read by the reader"
20:53	Frozenlock	Should I use this instead of `into'?
20:53	gfredericks	Frozenlock: yeah
20:53	mega`	unless you want a vector?
20:53	Frozenlock	Yes.
20:53	gfredericks	(vec) is shorter than (into [])
20:53	gfredericks	tell all your friends
20:53	mega`	but less cool
20:53	Frozenlock	I was doing (vector my-stuff)
20:54	gfredericks	mega`: you see that's where you're wrong
20:54	Frozenlock	Before using (into [])
20:54	gfredericks	this is making less and less sense the more things you say
20:54	Frozenlock	Unsurprisingly :p
20:55	Frozenlock	(into []
20:55	Frozenlock	(map (fn [rd oids]
20:55	Frozenlock	(hash-map ....
20:55	mega`	anny one seen more programming related aprill fools stuff?
20:56	gfredericks	is the spooning video old hat by now?
20:56	gfredericks	I only just saw it
20:56	mega`	no me to
20:56	mega`	loved it tho :D
20:58	gfredericks	pull request will never mean the same thing again
20:59	gfredericks	devn: that expression looked great for threading!
20:59	gfredericks	(-> (make-client) (visit "google.com") (xpath "//a") (->> (take 3) (map attrs)))
20:59	atarax	so maybe this is a stupid question that will get me banned, but how do I learn clojure
21:00	gfredericks	~guards
21:00	clojurebot	SEIZE HIM!
21:00	mega`	BAAAAAN
21:00	gfredericks	atarax: you've failed the have-to-already-know-clojure test for this room
21:00	mega`	theres books ofc
21:01	atarax	gfredericks: ok, I think I answered my own question - I should just sit here quietly and watch
21:01	mega`	and i saw the begining of a video series not to long ago
21:01	gfredericks	atarax: 4clojure.com maybe
21:01	Frozenlock	Yes 4 clojure is great.
21:02	gfredericks	lazybot: does Frozenlock know clojure??
21:02	lazybot	gfredericks: Definitely not.
21:02	Frozenlock	:p
21:02	atarax	are your bots here in clojure? :)
21:02	Frozenlock	Well no, which is why I use 4clojure
21:02	gfredericks	&(println "yes")
21:02	lazybot	⇒ yes nil
21:03	gfredericks	&(println "yes nil")
21:03	lazybot	⇒ yes nil nil
21:03	atarax	hehe, nice
21:03	gfredericks	&(println "this sentence ends with")
21:03	lazybot	⇒ this sentence ends with nil
21:04	offby1	This sentence no verb.
21:05	mega`	http://tryclj.com/
21:05	devn	gfredericks: yeah, i guess it's okay, but there's so much to do to make it usable as a general library
21:06	gf3	ibdknox: is Noir supposed to be a wine thing?
21:06	offby1	Pinot, I don't think so
21:06	gfredericks	$google greengrocer github
21:06	lazybot	[whymirror.github.com] http://whymirror.github.com/
21:06	devn	gfredericks: maybe (defn with-client [c f & args] (apply #(f c %) args))
21:06	gfredericks	devn: ^ that's my original shot at something like this
21:07	devn	(defn visit [^WebClient c, ^String url] (. c getPage url))
21:07	gfredericks	doesn't use any underlying engine though
21:07	atarax	&(hello me)
21:07	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: hello in this context
21:07	gfredericks	wait what
21:07	devn	&(hello "me")
21:07	gfredericks	did lazybot return there
21:07	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: hello in this context
21:07	gfredericks	devn: I meant https://github.com/fredericksgary/greengrocer
21:07	devn	&'(hello me)
21:07	lazybot	⇒ (hello me)
21:08	atarax	&(defn hello [who] (str "Hello," who "!"))
21:08	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! def is bad!
21:08	gf3	haaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaa, offby1
21:08	devn	gfredericks: cool
21:08	offby1	\o/
21:08	devn	gfredericks: i think im taking a bit of a different approach -- i really just want epic screen scraping with ease
21:08	atarax	uh, ok
21:08	devn	predicates, inspectors, etc.
21:09	gfredericks	devn: okay; maybe you and I aren't the same person after all
21:09	devn	lol
21:09	devn	i can assure you we are not! (i think)
21:09	atarax	&((defn hello [who] (str "Hello, " who "!")))
21:09	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! def is bad!
21:10	atarax	&(+ 1 2)
21:10	lazybot	⇒ 3
21:10	gfredericks	atarax: lazybot also supports private messages :)
21:10	atarax	thanks :)
21:10	devn	gfredericks: do you know if Htmlunit supports CSS?
21:10	devn	selectors
21:11	gfredericks	devn: man I didn't even know about Htmlunit until like last week
21:11	devn	nor i until today
21:11	mega`	, ((fn [who] (str "Hello, " who "!")) "mega")
21:11	gfredericks	I think it runs a JS engine though...
21:11	clojurebot	"Hello, mega!"
21:11	devn	i was using cyberneko
21:11	devn	and i found it to be an epic PITA
21:11	gfredericks	People for the Ithical Treatment of Animals
21:11	devn	then again, maybe it's not so bad
21:12	devn	im basically at the same point i was with cyberneko in htmlunit
21:12	devn	htmlunit actually uses cyberneko under the covers
21:12	devn	for tag balancing and what-not
21:14	gfredericks	dangit I don't know how to google for fogus's try-cljs app
21:15	mega`	do you mean the one whit the weird name?
21:15	mega`	himera
21:16	gfredericks	yep found it
21:16	mega`	think its a russian cat or something
21:20	atarax	thanks for that 4clojure.com site, I'll ask what's next if I finish that
21:20	mega`	atarax: back in 5 then?
21:21	atarax	mega`: i'm an idiot though, maybe not
21:21	Licenser	hmm is there something like dissoc for seqs so I can say (dissoc '(1 2 3) 1) -> '(1 3)
21:22	TimMc	Licenser: You want to remove things as specific indices?
21:22	gfredericks	nope
21:22	gfredericks	finger trees if you really need to do that efficiently
21:22	mega`	Licenser: theres take and skip
21:22	Licenser	TimMc yap
21:23	Licenser	mega` that is a good idea
21:24	yoklov	i should really just stop trying to use sets in cljs.
21:24	yoklov	they are sloooooow :/
21:24	Licenser	I'll go with mega`s suggestion :)
21:28	mega`	yoklov: linear lookup??
21:28	lazybot	mega`: Definitely not.
21:28	mega`	ok :P
21:28	yoklov	mega: i think it needs to copy the entire set when you make a change
21:34	gfredericks	yoklov: no way
21:35	gfredericks	&(let [s (set (range 1000000))] (time ((disj s 8) 7)))
21:35	lazybot	⇒ "Elapsed time: 0.496074 msecs" 7
21:35	yoklov	gfredericks: clojurescript
21:35	gfredericks	oh
21:35	gfredericks	well yes of course
21:35	yoklov	yup :(
21:35	gfredericks	oh I see you said "in cljs"
21:35	gfredericks	I repent in dust and ashes
21:36	yoklov	no problem :p
21:37	TimMc	Anyone here have experience dumping moderately large numbers of records (~50000) into SQLite without it taking forever?
21:38	TimMc	I'm wondering how to even tell whether SQLite or clojure.java.jdbc is the bottleneck.
21:38	lynaghk`	TimMc, yeah
21:38	lynaghk`	are you doing it in a transaction? That will make it hella faster
21:39	TimMc	lynaghk`: Here's the code as it is: https://github.com/timmc/kpawebgen/blob/master/clj/src/kpawebgen/spit.clj#L59
21:40	TimMc	(The chunking into 10k blocks is for debugging.)
21:40	TimMc	I think that when I tried to wrap it in a transaction, it complained about already having one open.
21:42	lynaghk`	TimMc: what's goin on with the outer doseq?
21:43	TimMc	Iterating over a list of tables.
21:43	TimMc	Well, a map.
21:43	lynaghk`	that's just named db? Okay.
21:44	TimMc	Yes, for various reasons I'm sucking the data out of a different DB and doing everything in-memory.
21:44	dnolen	yoklov: yeah somebody needs to take on PersistentHashMap now that we have PersistentVector ...
21:45	mega`	dnolen: is PresistentVector written in cljs?? or in js
21:45	dnolen	mega`: cljs
21:45	lynaghk`	TimMc: I'm not sure where the outer transaction is coming from, sorry. I would try macroexpanding and seeing what's what. All I know is that for lots of inserts like this, if you wrap the entire thing in one DB transaction it will go much much faster.
21:50	yoklov	dnolen: yup. heh, i'd be down to try if nobody else gets to it by the summer
21:50	TimMc	I think insert-records is doing it. Well, time to dig into the source, I guess...
21:51	TimMc	lynaghk`: Curiously, this operation is quite fast if I use a :memory: SQLite db.
21:51	arohner	do I need to do anything special to make a defrecord implement clojure.lang.IFn?
21:51	lynaghk`	TimMc: everything is faster in memory = )
21:52	arohner	I'm (trying) to implement clojure.lang.IFn [this], and getting "Foo cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
21:52	gfredericks	arohner: and you're calling it with no args?
21:52	TimMc	lynaghk`: Maybe there's a way to build an in-memory DB and slap it down onto disk...
21:52	arohner	gfredericks: yes. I've only implemented (invoke [this}). Is that enough?
21:53	gfredericks	arohner: it just worked for me
21:53	lynaghk`	TimMc: I think the reason transactions help is that sqlite won't try to update indexes until the transaction is completed. That probably doesn't make much of a difference in memory, but really kills on disk.
21:53	gfredericks	arohner: I did (defrecord Foo [] clojure.lang.IFn (invoke [this] :nularity-foo))
21:54	arohner	gfredericks: thanks. going to try restarting the JVM. I had previously defined the class, so maybe that's a problem
21:54	gfredericks	bet so
21:59	oakwise	wow, source maps look amazing
21:59	oakwise	that could be a huge boon to cljs if we beat coffeescript to the punch
22:00	yoklov	coffeescript doesn't seem to care that much about them. it's output is much more readable than compiled cljs
22:01	gfredericks	I've spent lots of time debugging coffeescript and it wasn't really an issue
22:01	yoklov	nope
22:01	oakwise	yeah I've had no problem debugging coffeescript with chrome tools but it's a huge scare factor for people
22:01	yoklov	clojurescript is more of a pain though.
22:02	oakwise	at least from the not-yet-using-cs-or-cljs-devs I've talked to
22:02	yoklov	yeah, thats definitely true
22:11	TimMc	lynaghk`: Oh silly me, I should have seen the sql/transaction command. I was trying to do BEGIN TRANSACTION >_<
22:12	lynaghk`	TimMc ahhhh. Well, at least it wasn't a missing colon or period or something = )
22:12	TimMc	Now it is fast!
22:13	lynaghk`	node.js fast?
22:13	TimMc	haha
22:13	TimMc	I wouldn't know.
22:15	lynaghk`	I haven't tried Datomic yet, but thus far SQLite is my favorite datastore ever.
22:25	TimMc	It's pretty freaking convenient.
22:26	TimMc	I wish MySQL, PostGres, etc. had a file-based mode like SQLite. Testing would be so much easier...
22:27	jordandanford	I'm somewhat new to Clojure, and I'm trying to make a Processing sketch using Quil – following the examples, here's how it's structured: https://gist.github.com/f223314b747981afc1fa
22:27	gfredericks	TimMc: file-based -> serverless?
22:27	TimMc	yep
22:28	TimMc	that's the word
22:28	gfredericks	yeah I guess they're equivalent more or less
22:28	gfredericks	sorta
22:28	jordandanford	What's the easiest way to run this?
22:29	TimMc	gfredericks: I guess it would be kinda hellish on the devs to try to make e.g. MySQL run in both serverless and server modes...
22:30	atarax	I just started learning clojure and I can't do anything
22:30	TimMc	jordandanford: lein run, but that will look for a -main fn.
22:30	TimMc	jordandanford: You can also run it from the repl.
22:31	jordandanford	Is that my only option?
22:32	TimMc	Well, for distribution you can build an uberjar, and run that with java -jar
22:32	mutinyonthebay	Just getting into Clojure w/ JOC; how can I declare a dependency to a contrib module in a lein project.clj?
22:32	jordandanford	TimMc: Okay, thanks
22:33	TimMc	mutinyonthebay: Well, monolithic contrib is deprecated. Which part are you trying to use?
22:34	mutinyonthebay	TimMc: algo.monads
22:35	mutinyonthebay	TimMc: currently 0.1.3-SNAPSHOT, to my knowledge
22:35	TimMc	~contrib
22:35	clojurebot	Monolithic clojure.contrib has been split up in favor of smaller, actually-maintained libs. Transition notes here: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
22:36	TimMc	I see, that is new contrib.
22:36	TimMc	[org.clojure/algo.monads "0.1.3-SNAPSHOT"] should do it
22:36	mutinyonthebay	TimMc: Thanks!
22:37	TimMc	~builds
22:37	clojurebot	I don't understand.
22:37	TimMc	hmm
22:37	TimMc	clojurebot: clojure build status?
22:37	clojurebot	Pardon?
22:38	TimMc	clojurebot: build status is http://build.clojure.org/
22:38	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
22:39	TimMc	I'm actually not sure what the best way is right now to find the most recent release of new-contrib artifacts.
22:42	mutinyonthebay	TimMc: Yeah, I'm having a bit of a problem with it
22:44	TimMc	mutinyonthebay: The community generally releases to clojars. I suspect Clojure.org releases to Maven central, come to think of it.
22:44	amalloy	certainly it does
22:45	ns_pablo	anybody who's familiar with Compojure and Noir, how can I mix both and do something like this: (defroutes main-routes (context "/blog" [] blog-routes) other-routes))
22:45	TimMc	Those are the only two default release sites that Lein checks, right?
22:45	ns_pablo	and then (defroutes blog-routes (defpage "/something" [] ...)
22:46	ns_pablo	I've looked everywhere, including Noir source, but there doesn't seem to be any support for nested routes
22:49	ns_pablo	I've asked this a few times in #Noir but there doesn't seem to be any active user over there
22:50	mutinyonthebay	TimMc: I was getting an Artifact Missing error on lein deps until I added :repositories {"sonatype-oss-public" "https://oss.sonatype.org/content/groups/public/"}
22:51	TimMc	Might be one of your other deps.
22:51	mutinyonthebay	I just had clojure and monads
22:51	mutinyonthebay	It was strange, but everything seems to fix itself with that repo
22:52	TimMc	Maven Central has v0.1.0
22:53	xeqi	clojure/core pushes snapshots to sonatype
22:53	TimMc	aha
22:53	xeqi	or clojure/dev really
22:53	xeqi	releases go to maven central
22:53	TimMc	That's curious.
22:54	mutinyonthebay	Ah, I see
22:54	xeqi	lein searches maven central and clojars by default
22:56	Frozenlock	ns_pablo: I was checking for the same problem. I "fixed" it by simply putting the entire path: (defpage "/blog/something" [] ...
23:00	ns_pablo	Frozenlock: so you're repeating "/blog" for every route?
23:02	ns_pablo	Frozenlock that's what I usually find when looking at Noir source, but that's not gonna work with my app because I need to separate routes from views
23:02	Frozenlock	As it is yes. PLEASE let me know if you stumble over a more elegant the solution "{
23:02	gfredericks	}"
23:02	Frozenlock	..
23:03	gfredericks	Frozenlock: you started it
23:03	Frozenlock	--> :P
23:03	Frozenlock	I know. My fault.
23:03	ns_pablo	It's weird because since Noir build on top of Compojure, I would expect it to extend it, not limit features that are already available
23:03	ns_pablo	*builds
23:04	ns_pablo	I'd go with Moustache, but then I'd lose all the goodies from Noir...
23:20	Frozenlock	ns_pablo: It is still possible to do powerful stuff with the url matching:
23:20	Frozenlock	(defpage "/user/:id" {:keys [id]}
23:20	Frozenlock	(str "You are user number " id))
23:21	Frozenlock	You can even have another page "/user/:id/anotherPage" which is completely different.
23:23	ns_pablo	Frozenlock: yeah, it's fine for small apps, I guess. In my case I'm porting legacy code and I need a way to separate the code into indepentent "modules"
23:31	arohner	if I have a templated java interface Foo<X>, and a method void bar(X arg), what does the reify call need to look like?
23:33	TimMc	arohner: You can skip the generics under most circumstances.
23:34	arohner	TimMc: that's what I thought, but I'm getting "Can't define method not in interfaces"
23:34	Lajla	&(symbol ":()3732(3235) 3832 3dhdha %%%%% ashjad")
23:34	lazybot	⇒ :()3732(3235) 3832 3dhdha %%%%% ashjad
23:34	arohner	lazybot: that's interesting
23:36	amalloy	(reify Foo (bar [this x]))
23:37	Lajla	arohner, I do believe ti is a bug.
23:37	Lajla	And I shall not rest until it is avenged and vanquished
23:37	arohner	amalloy: that's what I tried. Do I have to do anything different because bar returns nil?
23:38	amalloy	Lajla: just read one of the many mailing-list threads or stack-overflow questions about it
23:40	amalloy	arohner: no. whatever problem you're having is down to some specifics you glossed over with your foo/bar example
23:41	arohner	amalloy: ha. yeah, like misspelling the method name. I totally didn't just do that.
23:43	y3di	keywords are functions so you can use them to look up values in maps. Can you not use normal primitives the same way? i.e. ("key" {"key" "value"})
23:43	amalloy	no, because they're not functions
23:44	Raynes	You can't use toilet paper to open doors either.
23:44	arohner	y3di: keywords can implement clojure.lang.IFn, which takes a map as an argument. java strings are final, so that behavior can't be added to strings (or other primitives)
23:45	flazz	is there a way to run lein tasks from within emacs?
23:45	Raynes	M-!
23:46	flazz	Raynes: thanks! duh on my part
23:47	Raynes	flazz: You can also use eshell if you're running a lot of commands and want to keep the output handy on a buffer.
23:47	Raynes	M-x eshell
23:50	flazz	is there an emacs project mode people prefer for clojure projects?
23:50	Frozenlock	/troll-mode I like clojure-mode
23:51	Raynes	I've never used any sort of project mode.
23:52	flazz	i think i need learn-emacs-better-mode
23:53	y3di	yea pretty dumb q on my part... just wanted to belong ='[
23:53	y3di	real question: is the ' in '(1 2 3) and the . in (Date.) macros?
23:55	TimMc	Reader "macro"s.
23:56	Raynes	&(doc .)
23:56	lazybot	⇒ "Special: .; The instance member form works for both fields and methods.\n They all expand into calls to the dot operator at macroexpansion time."
23:56	Raynes	TimMc: . is a special form.
23:57	TimMc	Ah, so it is.
23:57	Raynes	' is a reader macro.
23:58	Raynes	&(doc quote)
23:58	lazybot	⇒ "Special: quote; Yields the unevaluated form."
23:58	Raynes	But it expands to a special form.
23:58	Raynes	So they're really both special forms.
23:58	y3di	whats a special form? i don't think ive heard that term
23:59	arohner	y3di: http://clojure.org/special_forms
23:59	arohner	y3di: the built in forms that aren't fns or macros