#clojure – 2011-10-29

2011-10-29

00:19	callen	technomancy: ubuntu does that a lot.
01:24	Raynes	ibdknox: Ping.
03:17	ibdknox	Raynes: pong
03:17	Raynes	ibdknox: Already forgot what I was going to say.
03:18	Raynes	But since you're here… Just moved try-clojure to noir in just under 30 minutes.
03:18	Raynes	Good stuff, man. Good stuff.
03:18	ibdknox	Awesome :)
03:19	ibdknox	I saw the doc clarification, I agree that that's clearer. I'll merge that in tomorrow.
03:19	Raynes	Yeah, it took me a minute to realized why my json looked like it had been converted to a string 86 times.
03:19	ibdknox	lol
08:11	scode	Is this idiomatic?: (read (java.io.PushbackReader. (reader (file "/path/to/file"))))
08:11	scode	Seems awfully verbose just to use the clojure reader to read from a file.
08:11	scode	(Dis-regarding that I'm not closing it in the example.)
08:35	zilti	How do I have to add new functions to a class extended with proxy? With letfn?
08:37	sn197	did you know that (file-seq dir) may return file paths that cannot be opened subsequently, if unicode chars are in the pathnames
08:44	zilti	I have to extend java.awt.Canvas by adding a new variable, a new function and overwrite paint.
08:44	zilti	And I have no idea how.
10:43	mbac	does the ->> function have a name?
10:43	mbac	s/function/macro/
11:09	MrKotter	ok, I know its probably been asked a million times, but is there a formula for getting emacs to work with the clojure-clr on windows?
11:10	MrKotter	the VS plugin is not cutting it
11:20	zippy314_	I'm looking for people's experience and best-practices writing tests for clojurescript apps. Have folks been using Google Closure's test functions? Anybody tried integrating Jasmine? Any other approaches? What I'd love is something like midje for a more BDD approach...
11:38	zilti	"Parameter declaration proxy should be a vector" What am I doing wrong here?
11:38	zilti	Oh. Nevermind
11:40	zilti	Copied the wrong thing. "Metadata can only be applied to IMetas" Here it is. I get this every time I validate a file in the SLIME buffer (using C-c C-l)
11:41	zilti	Had this the first time today, yesterday everything worked fine.
11:42	scottj	zippy314_: I haven't seen any mailing list posts or blog articles with details
12:10	zilti	Isn't let allowed inside a proxy? I always get "Unsupported binding form".
12:18	raek	I can't see any reason lets shouldn't be allowed. maybe the left hand side of a let binding is incorrect...
12:18	zilti	raek: How could that be? It's just a name there.
12:18	zilti	Basically I want to define a new variable inside that class, but how?
12:19	raek	zilti: are you sure you are calling proxy with the correct syntax?
12:19	raek	ah, you meant a let between the (proxy ...) and the method?
12:20	raek	you can do this (let [x 1] (proxy ... x ...))
12:20	raek	and this (proxy ... (foo-method [...] (let [x 1] ...)))
12:21	raek	but you can't do something like (proxy ... (let [x 1] (foo-method ...)))
12:21	zilti	I want that additional var to be available inside that class.
12:21	zilti	Ah ok
12:22	raek	let will just give you access to a value
12:22	raek	you can let an atom or a ref though if you want to have state
12:22	raek	(let [state (atom {:a 1, :b 2})] (proxy ...))
12:23	raek	each instance will have each own atom
12:23	zilti	Ah that way around ok
12:23	zilti	Good to know
12:23	raek	you have to be explicit when doing mutation in clojure :-)
12:33	zippy314	scottj: thanks!
12:42	zilti	raek: How can I instantiate a proxy then?
12:46	duck1123	zilti: I don't use proxy much, but does (let [klass (proxy ...)] (new klass arg1)) work?
12:47	zilti	duck1123: Right now I have stored the proxy in a def
12:47	duck1123	well, try using it with new
12:48	zilti	I have it in (def canv ...) now, but unfortunately (new canv) doesn't work
12:48	zilti	Unable to resolve class name
12:49	duck1123	Are you using proxy for a case where some java code needs to accept a class?
12:50	duck1123	try (.newInstance canv)
12:50	zilti	duck1123: No, I just have to use that proxy inside my clojure code
12:51	zilti	(.newInstance canv) gives me a "no matching field found".
12:51	zilti	maybe init-proxy?
12:53	zilti	Jup, init-proxy seems to be the way to go
12:55	duck1123	zilti: have you looked to see if deftype might not work for you?
13:03	duck1123	There was a really good flowchart for determining what type of data structure you need, but I can't seem to find it
13:04	duck1123	I take that back http://cemerick.com/2011/07/05/flowchart-for-choosing-the-right-clojure-type-definition-form/
13:07	zilti	duck1123: Thanks! Looks like deftype is the recommended. After following the arrows all over the chart ;)
13:09	duck1123	nice. That'll keep you out of interop zone, and should make things easier for you
13:10	zilti	"Each spec consists of a protocol or interface name" so that can be a class name, too, I guess?
13:11	duck1123	no, it only does interfaces and protocols. It won't subclass
13:11	zilti	So there's something wrong in the flowchart
13:12	duck1123	so you're extending a base java class?
13:12	zilti	Using the way "no -> yes -> named type -> no -> no"
13:13	zilti	duck1123: yes
13:13	duck1123	if you're extending a base class, wouldn't your first answer be yes?
13:14	zilti	Err, ignore the first "no" ;)
13:14	zilti	yes -> named -> no -> no -> deftype ;)
13:15	duck1123	oh, I'm wrong about deftype
13:15	duck1123	that explains it
13:15	zilti	Oh, someone already wrote this in the comments :)
13:21	duck1123	I hate it, one of the libraries I'm embedding finds it's parts by opening up every jar on the classpath and loading all the classes to see if any of them implement it's interface.
13:23	zilti	weird lib
13:23	duck1123	It's cool if there's not much on the classpath, but with all the dependencies I have, it blows my permgen unless I add just about everything to it's exclusion list
13:24	jamiltron	On that flowchart - why is deftype and defrecord suggested over a regular map if the type is related to performance-sensitive code?
13:26	duck1123	it's not perfect
13:26	jamiltron	What would the benefits be performance-wise using a record + protocol instead of just using a map with namespace'd functions?
13:28	duck1123	Isn't access to a declared field of a record faster than access to the same field in a regular map
13:29	duck1123	Of course, it's odd to think that anyone would ever say "no, I don't care about performance"
13:30	zilti	hmm now the only problem that's left is how to access functions inside the proxy
13:31	duck1123	(.getFoo this)
13:31	daaku	anyone have suggestions for an embedded db? i'm messing around with some stuff and just want an easy-ish db. i found clj-orient, and i'm trying that out (OrientDB), was wondering if anyone had suggestions
13:32	daaku	i don't need sql or anything, just basic id based lookups for the most part
13:33	duck1123	daaku: so this is all key-value data?
13:33	daaku	duck1123: mostly, i think i have a few things indexed by more than one field, but it isn't even that important atm
13:34	duck1123	you might also want to look at jiraph or fleetdb
13:35	daaku	cool, thanks duck1123 -- will check em out
13:35	duck1123	and it has to be embedded?
13:35	zilti	duck1123: Gives me a "no matching method found"
13:37	duck1123	zilti: so you're in one of the proxied methods, and you're trying to call another method of this class?
13:37	zilti	duck1123: No, I'm outside the proxy.
13:38	duck1123	zilti: oh, so do you have an instance of this class?
13:38	zilti	I did (init-proxy canv {}) not sure if that's considered to be an instance
13:39	jamiltron	daaku: You might want to take a look at Chris Granger's simpledb and see if that's something you could use: https://github.com/ibdknox/simpledb
13:40	duck1123	zilti: to be honest, the only time I've used proxy was when a java class wanted an anonymous class
13:41	daaku	jamiltron: nice, it's simple alright: :dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure "1.2.1"]]
13:42	jamiltron	daaku: It's pretty much a wrapper over an atom with some Java concurrency methods thrown in, iirc.
13:43	jamiltron	daaku: It's in memory though, so I don't know if that's a problem, but it should be pretty easily extendable to write to disk.
13:43	duck1123	if you don't need to write, you could look at the config module in my ciste library
13:43	daaku	yep, 50 lines of code -- persists to disk too actually
13:43	jamiltron	daaku: Oh you're right. I haven't used it in a while. I forgot it uses .db files.
13:44	jamiltron	daaku: it's great for prototyping. It replaces sqlite3 for me in that regard
13:45	daaku	jamiltron: i think i want something slightly more sophisticated -- but this is good for other random j0nx
13:48	daaku	but i imagine the slow start up time means it's a bit unlikely i'll be doing many of those random scripts in clojure sadly
13:49	duck1123	clojure's better for stuff where the run time outweighs the startup time, but there are ways to have a persistent vm to work around that
13:55	daaku	fleetdb looks pretty cool.. but i haven't found docs about embedding it. duck1123 any ideas if that's a supported way of using it?
13:56	daaku	duck1123: yeah, cake makes things pretty good with the persistent vm. i am no longer afraid of starting a repl or running tests ;)
13:58	duck1123	daaku: there used to be docs on how to embed the server component. looking
13:58	narkisr	Hey fellow Clojurians, I keep getting java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: clojure.lang.RT.keyword(Ljava/lang/String;Ljava/lang/String;)Lclojure/lang/Keyword;
13:59	duck1123	you should be able to require fleetdb.server and then call -main
13:59	narkisr	Im trying to migrate to 1.3 using the unoficial compat contrib
13:59	narkisr	https://github.com/arohner/clojure-contrib
14:00	daaku	duck1123: cool, will try it
14:00	duck1123	narkisr: make sure lein is updated, try cleaning
14:01	narkisr	Iv tried cleaning couple of time, ill try now again :)
14:01	duck1123	a lot of contrib doesn't work with 1.3, and it's really worth looking to see what parts you really need
14:01	narkisr	lein clean and then lein jar result with the same
14:01	narkisr	Yeah iv started to look on the modular contrib
14:02	narkisr	but it lacks a lot of things iv used which is why I went trying the unofficial non modular one
14:02	narkisr	It seems that this error is related to datalog which I use
14:02	duck1123	Personally, I recommend globally excluding the old contrib and then running lein test and adding new contrib libs till it works
14:03	narkisr	Hmm, what do you do about missing things?
14:03	duck1123	where did contrib go?
14:03	duck1123	clojurebot: where did contrib go?
14:03	clojurebot	well... it's a long story: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
14:03	narkisr	Yeah iv read that one
14:04	narkisr	still there are small functions that weren't migrated,
14:04	narkisr	I could try and replace those but in large code bases its not always an option
14:05	duck1123	[org.clojure.contrib/datalog "1.3.0-SNAPSHOT"] was the latest, does that work?
14:05	narkisr	In order to use it ill have to drop the non-modular one I was trying, I guess ill need to use the modular one any how
14:06	narkisr	classpath hell at its best ;)
14:07	narkisr	Thank you duck
14:08	duck1123	now we just need someone to care enough about datalog to port it over
14:11	narkisr	Its a nice tool,
14:12	narkisr	Not sure what it takes to migrate it tough
14:13	duck1123	Upgrading to 1.3 has gotten so much easier. When I first made the switch, almost nothing worked
14:13	duck1123	thankfully, one more of the libs I use just integrated my patches today. One less fork for me to manage.
14:15	narkisr	Makes me wonder on how many have made the switch, didn't a lot of noise in the mailing list about missing things
14:15	seancorfield	at least this should be a one off and future migrations will be much easier
14:16	seancorfield	and, if clojure's user base grows as we all hope, the number of future users will far exceed the number of current users so only a small number of people will have to deal with the contrib break up
14:17	duck1123	the contrib reorginization is a pain, but it's good for clojure in the long run
14:17	narkisr	sure is but I wonder if they coudln't have made it more gradual
14:18	Raynes	I'm not sure how gradual would have helped anything.
14:18	Raynes	Instead of doing it all at once and getting it over with, drop a library a week out of contrib?
14:18	Raynes	They released contrib at the same time they released Clojure.
14:19	Raynes	If they did it gradually, it would have been done in chunks over the next 20 years.
14:19	seancorfield	i started experimenting with with clojure in spring 2010 but we did start using it at work until the end of 2010 and we didn't go to production until spring 2011 so we were on 1.3.0 before we had much code written
14:20	duck1123	I think it's usually best to move over to modular contrib when you're still in 1.2, then make the jump once everything is still working
14:20	seancorfield	duck1123: agreed - that's why modular contrib must be 1.2.x compatible
14:20	duck1123	most people just go to 1.3 and then fix things till it works again
14:21	narkisr	Is the modular contrib 1.2 compatible?
14:21	seancorfield	now we have the matrix tests, it's easier to see what's 1.2.x compatible
14:21	narkisr	Oh
14:21	seancorfield	narkisr: mandate from clojure/core! :)
14:21	seancorfield	check build.clojure.org for the reality tho'
14:21	seancorfield	not all of them pass the matrix test
14:23	narkisr	I guess the community will have to step up and migrate things also
14:23	duck1123	and then you have the mult-deps support in lein to allow you to work on both versions before making the jump
14:23	narkisr	Time to dig in the datalog source ;)
14:23	seancorfield	if folks care enough about an old contrib library that has no maintainer, they can volunteer
14:23	seancorfield	that's how several have been migrated recently
14:24	duck1123	clojure.?.datalog
14:24	narkisr	I need to sign the CA in order to migrate no?
14:24	duck1123	algo?
14:24	seancorfield	yup
14:24	seancorfield	algo is migrated
14:25	duck1123	I was saying clojure.algo.datalog ?
14:25	seancorfield	ah, no, no one has stepped up to maintain datalog
14:25	narkisr	datalog is in algo?
14:25	seancorfield	isn't it superceded by cascalog tho'?
14:25	duck1123	no, I was proposing a new name
14:25	seancorfield	needs a volunteer maintainer first
14:26	duck1123	narkisr was going to send in his CA :)
14:26	narkisr	I will
14:26	seancorfield	quite a few will die on the vine for want of an active maintainer
14:26	duck1123	that's not a bad thing
14:26	seancorfield	and for the growth of the language, we don't want a bunch of inactive libraries in there
14:27	seancorfield	mornin' cemerick !
14:28	duck1123	narkisr: like seancorfield said, you might want to see if cascalog fits the bill first
14:28	cemerick	seancorfield: :-P
14:28	narkisr	sure
14:29	narkisr	isn't cascalog an hadoop based framework?
14:29	duck1123	I want to see lamina become clojure.data.channels
14:29	ibdknox	I don't
14:29	ibdknox	I want it to remain free of the CA process
14:30	seancorfield	if a 3rd party library is actively maintained and popular, it doesn't need to become part of the clojure tree
14:30	duck1123	fair enough
14:30	seancorfield	last year there was talk of ring and enlive migrating to new contrib but there's no obvious benefit in doing so really
14:31	narkisr	I was thinking of adding a log based persistency layer for datalog
14:31	seancorfield	although i actually think it would be good for clojure's growth in the web space to have ring be part of contrib...
14:31	ibdknox	but lots of detriment
14:31	cemerick	seancorfield: I don't think either the authors or core suggested those.
14:32	ibdknox	at this point it would also be a nightmare trying to get everything under CA for that to happen
14:32	ibdknox	since they've taken patches I believe
14:33	duck1123	That's an interesting point. Say I've signed a CA, and I've also contributed a patch to a library. If that library gets ported, do they need a separate agreement from me?
14:34	cemerick	duck1123: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Moving+Projects+Into+Contrib
14:34	Raynes	Deployed.
14:34	Raynes	ibdknox: http://try-clojure.org/ now runs on noir and proudly display's its affection in the footer.
14:34	ibdknox	in short, you have to give up your rights
14:34	Raynes	displays*
14:34	ibdknox	Raynes: :)
14:35	Raynes	ibdknox: If you want to see it, check out the noir branch of tryclojure.
14:35	Raynes	I also remembered what I was going to tell you last night.
14:35	Raynes	cssgen is pulling in contrib. Looks like technomancy updated it to remove contrib deps, but the only release with that in it is a snapshot.
14:36	cemerick	ibdknox: EPL means retaining copyright doesn't fundamentally matter.
14:36	ibdknox	Raynes: hah! I've been trying to figure out what was doing that.
14:36	ibdknox	cemerick: I see
14:37	cemerick	Responses like that make me nervous. :-P
14:38	ibdknox	lol
14:38	ibdknox	I have only a cursory understanding of licenses
14:39	ibdknox	Raynes: you shouldn't need to add that middleware at the bottom, except for wrap-file. The rest is all handled by noir :)
14:39	Raynes	I wasn't sure. Thanks for the tip.
14:40	ibdknox	I love how simple try clojure is :) Granted it hides a lot behind the sandbox, but still.
14:41	ibdknox	seancorfield: I don't envy you
14:42	seancorfield	assignment of copyright is extremely important in gaining legal protection for the project - and reassuring companies that want to use said project
14:44	Raynes	ibdknox: Does it meet your approval? ;)
14:45	ibdknox	Raynes: A+
14:45	ibdknox	Korma is very close to a first release :D
14:46	moogatronic	what is supposed to happen wehn i type tutorial?
14:46	ibdknox	moogatronic: the bottom text will change and give you instructions
14:46	ibdknox	though it seems to be showing the same thing
14:46	moogatronic	doesn't seem to be doing that in chrome.
14:46	ibdknox	Raynes: ^
14:47	ibdknox	Raynes: haha you never defined a page for /tutorial
14:48	Raynes	Yeah, I just noticed that.
14:48	Raynes	Dur.
14:48	ibdknox	java logging is retarded
14:49	moogatronic	ibdknox: log4j?
14:49	ibdknox	moogatronic: I was using c3p0 which has its own logging mechanism. I was trying to turn it off
14:49	ibdknox	moogatronic: the fix ended up being simple, but it took me forever to figure it out
14:50	moogatronic	yeah, it's a problem when someone uses alternate libs, or reads configuration from weird spots.
14:50	hugod	logback is nicer than log4j, imho
14:50	ibdknox	logback?
14:50	moogatronic	i'm just used to log4j after having used it for so long.
14:50	ibdknox	http://logback.qos.ch/
14:51	ibdknox	hugod: advantages?
14:51	hugod	logback is very similar. It has a contexts and a nice sifting appender
14:51	moogatronic	how many xml files does it take to configure?
14:51	hugod	it has a default config that logs to console
14:51	hugod	one file
14:51	moogatronic	win!
14:51	Raynes	ibdknox: Looks like my tutorial handler disappeared entirely. Heh.
14:52	Raynes	When I refactor, I really refactor.
14:52	ibdknox	that's the way to do it.
14:52	moogatronic	I only checked tutorial, beause I'm tutorializing myself this weekend.
14:52	moogatronic	=)
14:53	ibdknox	hugod: I assume since it's slf4j it'll work with tools.logging?
14:54	hugod	ibdknox: it does
14:54	ibdknox	sweet, I'll have to give it a try
14:54	duck1123	ibdknox: both slf4j and log4j work AFIK
15:00	moogatronic	I'm really finding autocomplete and ac-slime extremely helpful in my noob to noob+1 conversion.
15:06	spoon16	is there an easy way to go from a byte array to a string
15:06	spoon16	?
15:07	duck1123	that's one of String's constructors
15:07	duck1123	(String. ba)
15:07	cemerick	No!
15:08	cemerick	(String. array "some-encoding")
15:08	cemerick	system-default character sets are evil
15:08	duck1123	ok, I was about to say that
15:08	cemerick	And, yeah, get off my lawn! ;-P
15:09	duck1123	do you have to init a Charset for that?
15:10	cemerick	No, just use the charset name.
15:10	cemerick	"UTF-8" is generally the only sane choice, unless you have distinct reasons to go another way.
15:10	duck1123	(inc cemerick)
15:10	lazybot	⇒ 4
15:10	cemerick	:-)
15:11	cemerick	ibdknox: Hot chocolate, perhaps? It's snowing buckets here.
15:11	ibdknox	or that
15:11	ibdknox	lol
15:11	ibdknox	cemerick: high of 76 here today ;)
15:12	Raynes	Man, I really wish I knew JavaScript.
15:12	cemerick	ibdknox: I love snow. :-D
15:12	cemerick	76º is nice too, other times
15:12	ibdknox	Raynes: no you don't
15:12	cemerick	Raynes: no you don't
15:12	ibdknox	lol
15:13	cemerick	whoa
15:13	cemerick	that's gotta be a sign
15:13	Raynes	ibdknox: Unfortunately, a large portion of tryclojure is written in it. Knowing it would be in my best interest.
15:13	cemerick	(not= "getting by" "knowing Javascript")
15:13	Raynes	Fair enough.
15:13	cemerick	I prefer the former. Less maddening.
15:14	Raynes	But now I have to google for something. I've got like 15 slides written and it's like a week and a half before the conj. I do not have time for Javascript. x_x
15:14	moogatronic	is there a quick and easy way to reset my REPL if I've accidentally collided functions from multiple namespaces?
15:18	dnolen	emacs is just insane, jira mode
15:24	Raynes	moogatronic: Tutorial should be fixed now. Thanks for pointing that out.
15:25	moogatronic	Raynes: awesome, thanks. Will check it out.
15:25	Raynes	It is… brief.
15:25	moogatronic	I'm trying to hit it from multiple angles. so any help helps. =)
15:25	ibdknox	moogatronic: build a website! ;)
15:26	moogatronic	ibdknox: it's on the list. =) First I need to build some synths and implement some of the GAs and CA systems i alreayd know how to implmeent in other langs.
15:26	moogatronic	got overtone all setup and working last night.
15:27	moogatronic	well, the parts that were missing from before.
15:27	ibdknox	overtone is awesome
15:27	moogatronic	ibdknox: yeah, I couldn't for a while, figure out why (piano) wasn't working.
15:27	moogatronic	but I worked that out after much googling.
15:28	moogatronic	my level of clojure now is pretty low.. I pretty much have to google everything.. How do I open files, how do I iterate over lines, how do I do stuff with contents.. =)
15:28	moogatronic	hell, i have to google how do I iterate. =)
15:29	ibdknox	hehe :)
15:30	cemerick	moogatronic: you could do worse than to read all of the docstrings in clojure.core clojure.github.com/clojure/
15:30	cemerick	http://clojure.github.com/clojure/ that is
15:30	cemerick	Years in, I still discover nuggets in there that I hadn't internalized.
15:32	Raynes	jodaro: I got my wunderground swag. They somehow magically knew my tshirt size.
15:33	moogatronic	cemerick: I am reading lots of docstrings too.. C-c C-d d
15:33	moogatronic	that and the ac-slime popus have been really nice
15:37	moogatronic	Raynes: try-clojure is nice. I think it would be pretty cool to "try-clojure"-ify the contents of Friedmans "The Little Schemer". At least to me, these seem to have a similar interaction feel.
15:38	gtrak	,(. System/err println "will it run out of disk space if I DOS it?")
15:38	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: Syste�m, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
15:39	gtrak	&(. System/err println "test")
15:39	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: Syste�m
15:39	zilti	,(. java.lang.System/err println "will it run out of disk space if I DOS it?")
15:39	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: java.lang.System, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
15:39	gtrak	huh
15:39	gtrak	weird!
15:39	gtrak	tryclojure is just silent on the matter
15:40	Raynes	gtrak: What did you do, rebind out?
15:40	gtrak	Raynes, huh? no
15:40	moogatronic	Raynes: you could have pluggable storylines for the interactive code / thought / lecture stuff...
15:41	gtrak	just tried to println :-), it didn't yell at me or anything
15:41	Raynes	Oh. I probably forgot to redirect out./
15:41	gtrak	you may see some messages in your log :-P :-)
15:41	Raynes	I do.
15:42	ibdknox	,(. err println "hey")
15:42	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: println for class java.io.StringWriter>
15:42	gtrak	so what's going on with the bots then?
15:42	ibdknox	,(. err write "hey")
15:42	clojurebot	hey
15:42	clojurebot	nil
15:43	gtrak	,err
15:43	clojurebot	#<StringWriter >
15:44	gtrak	they just can't see java.lang.System?
15:44	Raynes	&(System/exit 0)
15:44	lazybot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission exitVM.0)
15:44	gtrak	&(System/out)
15:44	lazybot	⇒ #<PrintStream java.io.PrintStream@cedaea>
15:45	zilti	Every time I read an "access denied" I hear that Half-Life-"access denied" in my head
15:45	gtrak	&(. System/out println "test")
15:45	lazybot	⇒ nil
15:45	gtrak	&(. System/err println "test")
15:45	lazybot	⇒ nil
15:46	gtrak	,(. System/err println "test")
15:46	clojurebot	nil
15:46	zilti	&(println "test")
15:46	lazybot	⇒ test nil
15:46	gtrak	huh, maybe i copy-pasted an invalid character
15:46	ibdknox	writing docs: important, but boring.
15:47	Raynes	ibdknox: I spent an hour documenting the shit out of clojail last night.
15:47	ibdknox	yeah I'm writing content for the Korma site
15:47	ibdknox	Raynes: it takes forever
16:04	zilti	I don't understand why I get "No Message. NullPointerException" when wrapping a seesaw dialog inside a function, but it works flawlessly when getting called directly...
16:09	lnostdal_	zilti, "inside a function" can mean many things .. does this function get called at a later time or in a different context where some expected context is missing or have changed?
16:09	arohner	is there a clojure fn for (.getNamespace :foo)?
16:09	zilti	lnostdal_: There is no context. And it never works, not even when I call the function directly in the REPL
16:10	zilti	lnostdal_: It's basically just a (defn get-dialog (dialog ...))
16:10	gfredericks	there's no clojure library for complex numbers is there? I'm on my own?
16:11	scottj	gfredericks: clojure.contrib.complex-numbers
16:12	gfredericks	scottj: that's not as empty as it looks?
16:12	scottj	gfredericks: how empty does it look?
16:12	gfredericks	scottj: the API page shows no public functions
16:13	gfredericks	looking in the source I see there's some stuffs. Checking it out.
16:13	scottj	gfredericks: the code will show you that is because the multimethods are defined in clojure.contrib.generic.comparison
16:14	lnostdal_	arohner, do you mean (namespace 'user/some-symbol) ?
16:14	scottj	gfredericks: I haven't used it so I don't know how well it works
16:14	arohner	lnostdal_: yes, thank you
16:14	lnostdal_	seems weird having to explicitly supply the namespace like that though .. hm
16:15	lnostdal_	or maybe not
16:15	gfredericks	line 37 shows something I've never seen before: (deftype ::complex complex ...) <-- what does this mean?
16:15	arohner	lnostdal_: my use-case was determining whether a keyword is namespaced
16:15	arohner	,(namespace ::foo)
16:15	clojurebot	"sandbox"
16:16	lnostdal_	ok, arohner
16:16	scottj	gfredericks: that's from before deftype was in clojure there was a different thing called deftype
16:17	gfredericks	scottj: ah ha! so it is. The world is right again.
16:41	zilti	I just noticed that if one has a zero-argument function that returns something, and one needs that something, one has to wrap that zero-argument function in parens so it gets evaluated first...
16:42	zilti	I'm not really sure if I should consider this logical or weird.
16:42	gfredericks	zilti: you mean like ##(rand)?
16:42	lazybot	⇒ 0.3344012713783572
16:43	zilti	gfredericks: No, like if I have the function (defn get-dialog [] (dialog ...)) I have to call it like this: (show! (pack! (get-dialog))) because (show! (pack! get-dialog)) doesn't work
16:44	gfredericks	yeah. Functions are objects too, so you have to distinguish whether you're calling it or just mentioning it
16:45	zilti	There are two ways one can interpret "everything's a value" and obviously I misinterpreted it this time
16:48	zilti	Well "they" say that in Clojure everything's a value, so one could think that the value of a zero-argument function is its return value
16:48	zilti	lazily retrieved at the time it is needed
16:49	gfredericks	zilti: that would kind of mess up those zero-arg functions that return different values each call
16:50	gfredericks	for example, what would you expect (= rand rand) to evaluate to?
16:50	zilti	gfredericks: I don't think so, if they're evaluated lazily.
16:51	zilti	gfredericks: Hmm yes I forgot about that :(
16:51	zilti	,(not= (rand) (rand))
16:51	clojurebot	true
16:51	zilti	,(= rand rand)
16:51	clojurebot	true
16:52	gfredericks	it kind of destroys your ability to reference functions as objects, and at that point you can hardly do functional programming anymore
16:52	gfredericks	e.g., what if I wanted to do ##(sort-by rand [7 38 4 5 6])
16:52	lazybot	⇒ (4 7 5 6 38)
16:53	gfredericks	instead of passing the rand function, I would have passed a random number, which does me no good
16:56	gfredericks	for some reason I am finding it impossible to obtain algo.generic with leiningen :/
17:26	gfredericks	(inc seancorfield) ; <-- for the "Where Did Clojure.Contrib Go" page
17:26	lazybot	⇒ 2
17:30	cemerick	can you query for people's scores?
17:30	cemerick	lazybot: cemerick?
17:30	cemerick	&cemerick
17:30	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: cemerick in this context
17:30	cemerick	heh
17:30	Raynes	$help karma
17:30	lazybot	Raynes: Checks the karma of the person you specify.
17:30	cemerick	fancy
17:30	cemerick	karma cemerick
17:30	cemerick	lazybot: karma cemerick
17:31	Raynes	$karma cemerick
17:31	Raynes	Teh brokes.
17:31	Raynes	Not at all surprising.
17:31	cemerick	(dec cemerick)
17:31	lazybot	You can't adjust your own karma.
17:31	cemerick	sorta brokes
17:31	gfredericks	(dec cemerick)
17:31	lazybot	⇒ 3
17:31	gfredericks	(inc cemerick)
17:31	lazybot	⇒ 4
17:31	Raynes	Only get-karma is broken.
17:32	cemerick	an un-deref-able atom.
17:32	gfredericks	(def check-carma (comp inc dec))
17:33	gfredericks	This feels like a principle from physics. The only way to observe the karma also changes it.
17:33	cemerick	clojuredocs still highlights old contrib. :-\|
17:47	Raynes	$karma cemerick
17:47	lazybot	cemerick has karma 0.
17:47	Raynes	Close enough.
17:47	Iceland_jack	$karma Iceland_jack
17:47	lazybot	Iceland_jack has karma 0.
17:47	Iceland_jack	Bloody favoritism
17:47	Raynes	Yeah, it's going to give 0 for everybody. But hey, at least it responds now. ;)
17:48	abedra	$karma abedra
17:48	lazybot	abedra has karma 0.
17:48	abedra	s/0/100000
17:48	abedra	s/0/100000/
17:48	abedra	damn
17:48	abedra	I fail at gaming the system yet again
17:49	Raynes	:p
17:49	abedra	Raynes: what is the list of available commands now for the bot?
17:49	abedra	Raynes: is there a quick reference?
17:55	gfredericks	lazybot: help
17:55	lazybot	You're going to need to tell me what you want help with.
17:55	gfredericks	lazybot: wut I can say
17:55	technomancy	lazybot: help help
17:55	lazybot	technomancy: Get help with commands and stuff.
17:56	zilti	lol
17:56	abedra	lazybot: help commands
17:56	lazybot	Topic: "commands" doesn't exist!
17:56	zilti	This is the most awesome answer ever
17:56	abedra	lazybot: are you skynet
17:57	gfredericks	$karma lazybot
17:57	lazybot	lazybot has karma 0.
17:57	gfredericks	(dec lazybot) ; $karma is broke
17:57	lazybot	⇒ -1
18:08	maxbb	ciao list
18:11	Raynes	abedra: There isn't an up-to-date reference.
18:11	Raynes	abedra: https://github.com/flatland/lazybot/wiki/Commands There is this, but your mileage may vary.
18:13	Raynes	abedra: One cool thing is that the only reason there isn't an up-to-date list is because I haven't written a command for that yet. It wouldn't be hard to generate docs from within lazybot. :>
18:14	Raynes	$forecast Eldridge Alabama
18:14	Raynes	^ That worked, he just does it in query rather than in the channel.
18:14	Raynes	I should probably make him point out that he is querying the caller.
18:18	zilti	$forecast Eldridge Alabama
18:18	zilti	wow.
18:20	Raynes	zilti: That had HTML encoding in it, didn't it?
18:21	Raynes	I guess I forgot to unuglify those.
18:21	zilti	yes it did. But only for my hometown since for Elridge it didn't display degrees.
18:21	zilti	There was only °
18:22	spoon16	hey in lein when I am defining dependencies
18:22	spoon16	how do I find the name of the dependency?
18:22	spoon16	javax.activation/activation (for example)
18:23	spoon16	where are those values coming from?
18:24	zilti	spoon16: Those are from Maven
18:26	Raynes	Heh.
18:26	zilti	Use a maven search page if you don't know if it's on maven - e.g. http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/javax.activation/activation
18:26	Raynes	Yes, those are maven artifacts. The part before the / is the group id and the part after it is the artifact id.
18:27	Raynes	If you're trying to find out what a dependency is called, you can search for it. If it's a Clojure library, it's probably on clojars.org. If it's Java, it's probably on maven central. search.maven.org
18:27	Raynes	Alas, lein (and cake if you're on the develop branch) have a 'search' feature that allows you to search all the maven repos you have configured (clojars and central by default) for artifacts.
18:28	zilti	btw isn't the javax.activation included in the standard jdk anyway?
18:28	Raynes	For example, 'cake search activation' gives me a list of javax.activation/activation artifacts of various versions.
18:36	zilti	Does someone here use Noir?
18:36	zilti	I just deployed a "Hello World" packed using "lein ring uberjar" to a Tomcat 6 and get the following error: "java.io.FileNotFoundException: /home/dzilti/public_html/beta/WEB-INF/classes/public (Is a directory)"
18:40	schow	hello?
18:40	clojurebot	BUENOS DING DONG DIDDLY DIOS, fRaUline schow
18:40	Scriptor	hi schow
18:40	schow	I have a newbie question I was hoping someone could help me out with
18:41	zilti	schow: Just ask
18:41	schow	right.
18:41	Raynes	That'd be the purpose of the channel. ;)
18:41	schow	I'm trying to write a simple script that processes stdin. For example as part of a series of unix commands cat input.txt \| clj myscript.clj
18:42	schow	I found a posting on stackexchange that describes this
18:42	schow	;; (doseq [line (line-seq (java.io.BufferedReader. in))]
18:42	schow	;; (println "x" line))
18:43	schow	which gets the job done partially but in addition to the output from my println form I also get the original stdin output
18:44	schow	I've been playing with similar lines such as
18:44	zilti	schow: Yes, that's because "line" contains the input
18:44	schow	(doseq [line (clojure.contrib.io/read-lines "testinput.txt")] (println "y" line))
18:44	schow	and (doseq [line (clojure.contrib.io/read-lines "testinput.txt")] (println "y" line))
18:44	schow	i mean (doseq [line `("A" "B" "C")] (println "z" line))
18:44	zilti	contrib is outdated
18:44	schow	which both produce the expected result
18:44	zilti	,(doseq [line `("A" "B" "C")] (println "z" line))
18:44	clojurebot	z A
18:45	clojurebot	z B
18:45	clojurebot	z C
18:45	schow	correct
18:45	schow	but when I have A\nB\nC\n in my input file and cat it into the first script I not only get the output prepended with "x" I get the original output as well
18:47	ibdknox	schow: what is it that you're trying to do exactly?
18:47	zilti	ibdknox: He wants to pipe the output of one program to his script
18:47	schow	cat inputfile.txt \| <a clojure script>
18:48	zilti	Which works, but the contents of inputfile.txt get printed as well before the output of his script
18:48	cemerick	Does that happen every time now?
18:48	cemerick	hello?
18:48	clojurebot	BUENOS DING DONG DIDDLY DIOS, fRaUline cemerick
18:48	schow	In my simple test I'm just putting A B C (each on their own line) into my inputfile.txt
18:48	schow	I see the following output
18:48	schow	A
18:48	schow	x A
18:48	schow	B
18:48	schow	x B
18:48	schow	C
18:48	schow	x C
18:48	cemerick	hiredman: step away from the gin. ;-)
18:49	ibdknox	k, one second
18:49	schow	The issue seems to be either with line-seq or java.io.BufferedReader since my other 2 tests seem to produce the expected otuput
18:51	zilti	it can't be line-seq because there's no print function in it
18:52	ibdknox	try binding in
18:52	schow	Another clue which might implicate my use of BufferedReader is the fact that sometimes I see something like this
18:52	schow	A
18:52	schow	B
18:52	schow	x A
18:52	schow	x B
18:52	schow	C
18:52	schow	x C
18:53	schow	"binding in"?
18:53	ibdknox	(binding [in (io/reader in)] (let [lines (line-seq ....
18:53	gfredericks	it almost seems like when lazy seqs get printed. but if you're using doseq I don't think that would make sense.
18:56	schow	@ibdknox can you post the your full script proposal?
18:57	zilti	ibdknox: io is already a reader
18:57	ibdknox	yeah, I'm messing around with it
19:01	zilti	schow: Maybe it's because you do input.txt \| clj myscript.clj. Did you try to turn your clj file into a script file? Like adding these three lines at the beginning and make it executable:
19:02	zilti	#! /bin/sh
19:02	zilti	exec clj "$0" "$@"
19:02	schow	yes I've tried both with a #!
19:02	zilti	!#
19:02	zilti	then run it without prepending clj
19:02	schow	cat input.txt \| ./test.clj
19:02	schow	as well as
19:02	schow	cat input.txt \| clj test.clj
19:02	zilti	Both didn't work?
19:03	schow	same behavior
19:03	ibdknox	I can't get in with lein :/
19:04	abedra	Raynes: thanks for the info
19:05	schow	just figured it out
19:05	schow	doh
19:05	ibdknox	?
19:05	schow	my "clj" script looks like this
19:05	schow	#!/bin/sh java -cp /Users/schow/clojure/helloworld/lib/clojure-1.2.1.jar:/Users/schow/clojure/helloworld/lib/clojure-contrib-1.2.0.jar:/Users/schow/clj/clojure-1.1.0/jline-0_9_5.jar jline.ConsoleRunner clojure.main $1
19:06	schow	(and I cut and copied the same line into my #! at the beginning of my test.clj)
19:06	ibdknox	ah
19:06	schow	in both cases jline is present and the script is being run inside jline.ConsoleRunner
19:06	schow	which appears to be what is adding the extra output
19:06	schow	When I remove that it is fine.
19:07	zilti	show: Nice. And btw, since you're a beginner: Upgrade to Clojure 1.3 and don't touch Clojure Contrib.
19:07	ibdknox	ever
19:08	schow	In case you're curious here is the resulting working test.clj
19:08	schow	#!/usr/bin/java -cp /Users/schow/clojure/helloworld/lib/clojure-1.2.1.jar clojure.main
19:08	schow	(doseq [line (line-seq (java.io.BufferedReader. in))] (println "x" line))
19:09	schow	Does 1.3 contain some of the contrib libs within core?
19:09	schow	What are the drawbacks of contrib?
19:10	zilti	yes, a few. And most of the other parts are in its own projects
19:10	brehaut	http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
19:10	zilti	It's discontinued
19:10	dnolen	schow: io stuff got move to clojure.java.io
19:12	zilti	I just deployed a "Hello World" packed using "lein ring uberjar" to a Tomcat 6 and get the following error: "java.io.FileNotFoundException: /home/dzilti/public_html/beta/WEB-INF/classes/public (Is a directory)"
19:15	zilti	Anyone know a solution?
19:18	schow	thx guys. see ya
19:21	cemerick	zilti: that's a bug in ring
19:22	zilti	cemerick: So there's currently no way to deploy a ring application to tomcat (without a lot of handwork)?
19:22	cemerick	Upgrade (or add) your dependency on ring to 1.0.0-RC1
19:23	master5o1	!help
19:23	master5o1	clojurebot: herp?
19:23	clojurebot	I don't understand.
19:23	zilti	cemerick: Will that overwrite the noir dependency?
19:24	cemerick	zilti: no, noir and ring are separate
19:24	cemerick	noir depends upon ring
19:24	zilti	yes
19:24	zilti	but if I use noir, can I simply add the dependency to ring 1.0.0-RC1 and it will work?
19:25	master5o1	!dice
19:25	master5o1	:O
19:25	Raynes	It depends on whether or not noir is compatible with it. Your dependency will override the noir one, but that doesn't mean noir will run.
19:25	Raynes	$help dice
19:25	lazybot	Topic: "dice" doesn't exist!
19:25	master5o1	!google herp
19:25	master5o1	oh.
19:25	master5o1	$hel
19:25	master5o1	$help
19:25	lazybot	You're going to need to tell me what you want help with.
19:25	Raynes	I have a dice command somewhere.
19:25	cemerick	zilti: you should have no problem using the newer rev of ring
19:26	zilti	Ok, thanks!
19:26	cemerick	If you do, downstream projects need to get up to speed, as that particular bug is really irritating.
19:27	zilti	(inc cemerick)
19:27	lazybot	⇒ 5
19:27	zilti	:)
19:33	cemerick	Can I trade lazybot karma for miles or something? :-P
19:33	zerokarmaleft	there isn't an exchange rate for conj beers?
19:34	cemerick	oh, that'll work :-D
19:35	Raynes	cemerick: Sure.
19:39	Saturnation	Just going through https://github.com/technomancy/clojure-mode and am a bit stuck on Basic REPL. In particular how does M-x run-lisp us Leiningen? Did the previous packages installs do this, or is there something implied I missed?
19:39	Saturnation	In other words, is there a sanity test for making sure everything has been installed correctly thus far?
19:44	scode	What's an idiomatic way for one method in a deftype to refer to another? Getting a compile time error saying the referee is unknown, presumably because the side-effects of the deftype macro haven't happened yet or some such.
19:44	scode	I'd like to avoid forwarding calls to a function defined with a (defn...) separately.
19:45	scode	Well, (declare ...) works. But feels a bit assymetric to keep that outside of the deftype.
19:46	dnolen	scode referring methods of the same type? or referring to a method in another type?
19:46	dnolen	if other type, you need declare
19:49	scode	dnolen: Same type.
19:49	dnolen	scode: then you shouldn't need declare.
19:50	dnolen	since those fns are defined by the protocol.
19:51	scode	face palm
19:51	scode	I only added it to my implementations and not the protocol.
19:51	scode	How stupid.
19:51	scode	Sorry :)
19:51	scode	No actually I did add it to the protocol.
19:51	scode	Ok, I must have made some mistake. Will investigate.
19:52	cemerick	scode: don't be so hard on yourself
19:52	cemerick	:-)
19:53	cemerick	feel free to paste code if you continue to have trouble
19:53	scode	My mistake was that I had failed to namespace qualify my calls to the protocol methods so they were of course resolving to the namespace of the implentation rather than the protocol..
19:53	scode	cemerick: Thanks :)
19:55	cemerick	oh, that's tricky
19:55	cemerick	I can see that taking a little while to sort out
19:56	scode	Mostly just the fact that I've written far less clojure than I would want, which is showing. So minor pitfalls like these show up ;)
19:56	cemerick	I generally use a * or -impl suffix on implementing functions, just to keep things like that straight in my head
19:57	scode	I wonder if it's a good idea to actually :use the protocol namespace in the implementing namespace.
19:58	cemerick	using :use without :only is decidedly not idiomatic
19:58	cemerick	(in general) ;-)
20:00	scode	Yep, I'm not doing it. Was mostly an idle thought for the specific case of an implementation of a protocol. But that assumes the namespace of the protocol is only used for the protocol.
21:31	ibdknox	you know you've reached the level of awesome when you've created a DSL for writing your library documentation
21:33	ibdknox	library's, rather
22:08	WuHoUnited	Does anybody know the best way to pass an integer to a java function?
22:12	ibdknox	,(doc int)
22:13	clojurebot	"([x]); Coerce to int"
22:13	ibdknox	WuHoUnited: ^
22:13	WuHoUnited	nevermind i had a different problem