#clojure – 2009-08-25

2009-08-25

00:59	lowlycoder	anyone got experience with clojure on hadoop?
00:59	lowlycoder	make that clojure / hadoop / ec2 :-)
01:20	tomoj	lowlycoder: I saw some code someone had written somewhere
01:20	tomoj	maybe on the group
01:20	tomoj	http://github.com/stuartsierra/clojure-hadoop
01:22	lowlycoder	that name looks familiar from googling around
01:22	lowlycoder	i had imagined this would be a bigger deal somehow :-)
01:22	lowlycoder	you know, after learning clojure; it's a lot less impressive than I thought it would be
01:22	lowlycoder	there's some minor changes, but no mind blowing magic
01:34	rathore	lowlycoder: in what sense?
01:41	tomoj	maybe the persistent collections aren't mind blowing, but they're still awesome
01:43	JAS415	mindblowing
01:44	JAS415	i feel like lispers always explain lisp as if its mindblowing, but really its not mindblowing on the surface, its kind of mindblowing after 3-6 months of hacking it
01:44	clojurebot	"if you never learnt Lisp, then you never learned to program" -- some rant on some blog somewhere
01:44	JAS415	like you can come to clojure or CL and treat it like c or python and kind of go 'meh' and not be that impressed
01:46	tomoj	homoiconicity blew my mind
01:47	JAS415	yeah that's the mindblowing part
01:47	JAS415	although i guess the mindblowing part is what you can do with it
01:47	JAS415	not so much the homiconicity itself
01:48	dosync	for me it was lazy sequences.
01:48	tomoj	code that writes code is just plain awesome. I love recursive/self-referential stuff like that
01:48	tomoj	oh yeah, I remember having my mind blown when I created a sequence of all the integers
01:50	dosync	i am pretty sure the STM will blow my mind away too, once i grok its possibilities. For now, "snapshot isolation" just seems like something that is nice to have. :)
01:51	dosync	Look at this post for eg. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/a86c91091ae16970
02:50	tomoj	I can't seem to get ns syntax right
02:50	tomoj	(use (clojure.contrib.pprint :only [:cl-format]))
02:50	tomoj	what's wrong?
02:52	hiredman	:use and
02:55	mikem`_	should it be (use '[clojure.contrib.pprint :only [cl-format]])
02:55	tomoj	it's in ns, so no quoting necessary I think
02:55	tomoj	oh, the error I'm getting now is that cl-format is not public
02:55	tomoj	that's odd
02:56	mikem`_	tomoj: ah, you're right :) as hiredman says, you need :use, though
02:56	tomoj	got that
02:56	tomoj	now this illegal access error, hmm
02:56	tomoj	cl-format is clearly public
02:57	tomoj	if I (use 'clojure.contrib.pprint) at the repl, I can use cl-format
02:57	tomoj	but (:use [clojure.contrib.pprint :only [:cl-format]]) in ns won't compile
02:57	dosync	no : before cl-format
02:58	tomoj	oh, d'oh
02:58	tomoj	thanks
03:00	Raynes	I just spent 20 minutes trying to figure out why I couldn't use anything from clojure-contrib, before I realized that I never built it. :\|
03:00	Raynes	/fail
03:25	LauJensen	Top of the morning gents
03:26	cgrand	moin
03:27	LauJensen	cgrand: tres bon, si'l voi plait, qui qui madam
03:29	gko	tu vas bien ?
03:36	dcooper8	git clone git://github.com/kevinoneill/clojure-contrib.git
03:36	dcooper8	does not seem to work
03:37	dcooper8	is there a "standard" location for clojure-contrib?
03:37	hiredman	yes
03:37	hiredman	~contrib
03:37	clojurebot	contrib is http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/tree/master
03:37	hiredman	the kevinoneill repos were unofficial github mirrors when clojure was using svn
03:38	dcooper8	that is from http://riddell.us/tutorial/clojure/clojure.html
03:39	hiredman	then it's old
03:46	dcooper8	should i be able to:git clone
03:46	dcooper8	git clone http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/tree/master
03:46	dcooper8	?
03:46	dcooper8	if i try that, i'm getting a corrupted file error
03:47	hiredman	git clone git://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib.git
03:53	dcooper8	thanks, got it.
06:14	alinp	hi
06:14	alinp	what's the best way to add an element to end of a sequence ?
06:15	alinp	I'm missing something about cons/conj since it adds the element as the 1st in the given coll
06:15	clojurebot	(conj {:a 1} (when true {:b 2}))
06:15	liwp	it depends on the collections type
06:16	liwp	if the collection is a list, the new element will be added to the front since that's an O(1) operation
06:16	alinp	ok .. so how can I add it to the end ?
06:16	alinp	if the coll is a list
06:17	liwp	you really shouldn't since it's an O(n) operation
06:17	liwp	can you use vectors instead of lists?
06:17	liwp	with a vector conj adds the element to the end
06:17	alinp	yeah, I think so
06:18	liwp	,(conj [1] 2)
06:18	clojurebot	[1 2]
06:18	liwp	,(conj '(1) 2)
06:18	alinp	,(conj [2 3 4] 1)
06:18	clojurebot	(2 1)
06:18	alinp	yeah
06:18	clojurebot	[2 3 4 1]
06:18	alinp	thanks
06:18	liwp	no worries
06:19	Neronus	quick to write and not so efficient if you want to stay with lists: (reverse (conj (reverse list) x))
06:19	liwp	if you really want to deal with lists a common idiom is to build the list back-to-front and then reverse the list before returning it
06:20	liwp	so you get o(1) adds and then a single O(n) reverse
06:25	Neronus	http://paste.lisp.org/display/86002 Something like that
06:25	Neronus	but I don't think that that is more efficient than my solution above
06:26	liwp	Neronus: yeah, it's basically the same thing, i.e. iterate through the list, conj an element, and reverse it
06:27	liwp	so in general it's just a bad idea to use lists if you need to append to the collection
06:29	Neronus	yeah. Great for using them as stacks, though. Can be used for queues to (i.e. add last), but this isn't that easy
06:30	Neronus	na, sorry, the last one is only true when using modifiable cons cells
06:30	Neronus	btw, a short benchmark shows, that the version I pasted is a little faster (about 50 msecs on my PC)
06:31	liwp	Neronus: there's a cool functional queue by Chris Okasaki which is also the basis of the PersistentQueue in Clojure
06:31	liwp	basically you have a pair of lists, you conj to the second list in order to append to the queue
06:31	liwp	you dequeue by taking the head of the first queue
06:32	liwp	first list even
06:33	liwp	and when the first list is empty when doing a dequeue you take the second list, reverse it, and create a new pair with the reversed list and a new empty list
06:33	liwp	if that makes any sense ;)
06:34	Neronus	It isn't slower if I modify clojure.core/reverse to use loop/recur instead of reduce
06:34	liwp	your benchmark?
06:35	liwp	how long is you list in the test?
06:35	Neronus	I defined a list of a million zeroes and added a one to the end
06:35	liwp	hmmm
06:36	liwp	AFAICT (reduce) calls into the Java reduce function that the PersistentList implements, so you'd expect the reduce implementation to be faster...
06:36	liwp	so how long does it take to add an element to a 1M element list?
06:41	Neronus	liwp: reduce calls a java reduce function for chunked sequences, and list aren't chunked. If the collection isn't chunked, it uses loop/recur
06:42	Neronus	About 600 msecs for me
06:42	liwp	oh, ok
06:43	liwp	oh yeah, that's right
06:46	liwp	Neronus: do you use slime?
06:46	Neronus	liwp: Yupp
06:46	liwp	how do you fix your repl after you've printed 1M integers in it and it's abysmally slow? ;-)
06:46	liwp	I'm assuming it's the size of the buffer that's causing problems
06:47	liwp	since my irc buffer is fine
06:47	Neronus	liwp: I restart the repl
06:47	Neronus	that is, I close the buffer
06:47	liwp	yeah, that's what I've done in the past. There should be a better way though...
06:48	liwp	that's better!
07:13	Licenser	I like the 'what you're doing wrong' part of the video
07:19	tomoj	liwp: M-x slime-repl-clear-buffer
07:19	tomoj	liwp: which for me is C-c M-o
08:07	raphinou	I've posted about my use of clojure with Jwt at: http://www.nsa.be/index.php/eng/Blog/Using-Jwt-yes-it-s-a-J-with-Clojure
08:08	raphinou	For those who were here the last days, it's for this post that I had problems implementing 2 nested interfaces having the same name ;-)
08:08	raphinou	feddback welcome
08:10	liwp	tomoj: thanks! I'll try that the next time I do something stupid
08:17	AWizzArd	Hello rhickey. Do you accept Contributor Agreements also when they are sent via fax?
08:18	rhickey	AWizzArd: not so far, no
08:19	fsm	Hi AWizzArd
08:20	fsm	I made some changes to my project according to your suggestions from a while ago
08:20	AWizzArd	Ah, hi fsm, I got your message and already looked at your code. It is really nice.
08:20	AWizzArd	And hard to believe btw that you are a raytracing newbi...
08:22	fsm	Still plenty of room for improvement, but in that field there is infinite room for improvement.
08:23	fsm	Now, I search for some kind of trick to eliminate nested if statements
08:23	cark	fsm : have you tried taking advantage of the easy parallelism of clojure to speed up rendering ?
08:23	fsm	I have several algorithms that depend on exiting as early as possible for speed, which makes nested code
08:23	fsm	cark: yes, it was possible to make it multi-threaded with about 8 lines of code
08:24	cark	hehe nice =)
08:24	fsm	i am using atoms, i think if i changed to pmap most of that would go away (?)
08:24	cark	atoms ?
08:24	cark	oh
08:24	fsm	agents*
08:25	cark	i don't know, agents are very often the way to go, i don't have time to dig in your code togive pertinent advice
08:25	fsm	it was really a matter of adding 'start' and 'end' co-ordinates to my rendering function, a minor change
08:26	fsm	but now, i wish for some kind of 'lazy let' so that variables are only computed if they are referenced
08:26	cark	as for the nested if thing, you might want to look into the maybe monad, though that will make a lot of function calls (slow)
08:27	fsm	yes, i think that is what i was looking at in haskell
08:27	fsm	the problem is, I have millions of tiny operations, that are easily overwhelmed by a little overhead
08:27	fsm	but that is why people write these things in C
08:27	cark	or you could make some kind of macro for that...
08:28	fsm	i am going to look at the maybe stuff, the code might become slower, but i might learn something.
08:29	fsm	the promise of having code that describes the problem rather than the solution is very interesting
08:29	Neronus	fsm: Are the many nested ifs in one function? I guess you know about cond? If this isn't the solution, then I don't understand the problem
08:30	cark	cond exits as soon as it reaches a true condition
08:30	fsm	The problem is, I may have e.g. 8 variables in a function, which are moderately expensive to calculate. After calculating the 2nd, 4th, and 6th (for example) i test the results so far and see if i can exit, to boost speed
08:30	Neronus	btw: is that your raytracer http://code.google.com/p/cray/?
08:30	fsm	yes, that's it
08:30	Neronus	nice :)
08:30	fsm	thanks
08:31	fsm	I didn't code in any lisp type languages before, so the code is a little rough... but it is getting better.
08:32	tomoj	hrmm
08:32	fsm	anyway, right now i have to do 3 levels of nested if and let, for those type of routines
08:32	Neronus	fsm: What about delay and force? wouldn't lazy variables help?
08:32	tomoj	ah, delay and force look cool
08:33	fsm	that looks interesting, there are plenty of things I don't know about that are already there
08:33	tomoj	you could write a lazy-let that replaces all instances of the symbols in the body with (force <the-symbol>) and puts delay around the bindings, right?
08:34	tomoj	though that means every access to those variables is a function call :(
08:34	fsm	for now, i have wrapped some of my calculations in anonymous functions, that kind-of gives me what i want (cuts down on nesting)
08:34	fsm	but the cost is another function call, so it is only good for expensive calculations
08:34	Chousuke	you could perhaps write some kind of an extension to let like (something [a (foo) b (bar) {:guard (= a b) :or value-if-guard-fails} c (more a b)] ...)
08:35	fsm	interesting, that kind of thing is a good way to go up a gear in learning
08:36	Chousuke	remember, macros let you have any kind of syntax for anything you want, as long as its made of clojure data structures. :)
08:37	Chousuke	the only problem is writing the macro.
08:37	tomoj	but at macro-time there's no way to know if a variable will be referenced :(
08:38	Chousuke	I mean, with-open or something is easy, but... if you like a challenge, try a (c++ "int main() { return 0; }") D:
08:39	Chousuke	tomoj: referenced?
08:40	Chousuke	all you need to do is generate the needed checks.
08:40	tomoj	referring to something fsm said above
08:40	Chousuke	I mean, it doesn't matter if the macro expands into a mess of nesting ifs
08:40	tomoj	something like (lazy-let [a (foo) b (bar)] (if true a b)) would never call bar
08:40	fsm	yes, my issue is more with my knowledge level than any issues with the language
08:41	fsm	macros are like having 26 letters of the alphabet, and deciding to write a book
08:41	Chousuke	heh.
08:41	tomoj	like I said I think you can get that by replacing a and b in the body with (force a) and (force b) and wrapping the foo/bars in delay, but that means every access to a is a function call
08:41	Chousuke	fundamentally, macros aren't so magical.
08:42	Chousuke	they're merely functions that transform a data structure to another. pretty common, right?
08:42	AWizzArd	Is there a way to declare the return values of functions?
08:42	fsm	alternatively, like sitting in front of google.com, you can search for anything you can imagine, you just have to have a good imagination
08:42	Chousuke	the magic comes from the fact that the output data structure happens to be code.
08:42	fsm	i am going to try that force/delay and i am going to look at how let is implemented
08:43	Chousuke	fsm: force and delay will only help with very expensive computations though.
08:43	cark	i'd go for macros
08:43	Chousuke	fsm: they have their own overhead.
08:43	cark	just make a macro that expand into your nested ifs
08:43	cark	there will be no overhead, and you get readable code in the end
08:44	Chousuke	macros are useful if you can find a repeating pattern in your code
08:44	fsm	it is interesting to see what affects performance and what does not
08:44	Chousuke	if the ifs don't have a pattern, then it's a bit more difficult I suppose.
08:44	fsm	i am now at the point where about half my CPU time is in calculating dot products, and i think that is limited by the jvm
08:45	Chousuke	are you using clojure vectors or arrays or something java?
08:46	fsm	i am using double-arrays, once Rich & co put the pieces together for me about how to avoid boxing/unboxing
08:46	fsm	(actually just changed to floats, which was worth another 30% boost)
08:46	fsm	it is interesting that sometimes where you are tempted to use macros, the code runs slower
08:47	fsm	apparently the jvm hotspot stuff is clever, and/or it is more important to stay in cache
08:47	Chousuke	heh
08:47	Chousuke	too much inlining can harm performance because code doesn't fit in cache.
08:48	Chousuke	so it may actually be faster to do lots of function calls than to inline the function at the call sites.
08:49	tomoj	I am glad I don't need to understand that stuff :)
08:49	fsm	someone posted the link on hacker news the other day, and i got a couple thousand visits
08:49	fsm	there is quite some interest in clojure i guess
08:49	Chousuke	of course, hotspot is designed to let you stop worrying about such things.
08:50	Chousuke	ideally, you just write functions and use them normally and hotspot inlines them if needed
08:50	liwp	Chousuke: also, the JVM will only optimise code below a certain size, so if you function is too large HotSpot will ignore it.
08:50	liwp	But I have no idea how this applies to code generated by the Clojure compiler...
08:53	fsm	anyway, the main thing is I am confident that clojure is not causing any particular performance drop over java, having looked through the profiling results
08:53	Neronus	Well, as clojure functions are (I believe static) java functions, and at least my clojure functions are pretty short (especially to some java methods I've seen and written), my guess would be, that functions generated by clojure tend to be pretty short
08:55	Chouser	fsm: what was the popular link?
08:55	fsm	originally, it was http://tu.be/tracer but it is now hosted at cray.googlecode.com
08:56	liwp	Neronus: sounds reasonable. So is each clojure function compiled into a Java class with a static member function and that function implements the clojure function?
08:56	Chouser	ah, your ray tracer. very good.
08:56	fsm	I think someone was watching the clojurebot's del.icio.us feed
08:56	Chouser	a clojure function is compiled to a Java class with an instance function named 'invoke'
08:56	clojurebot	clojure is a language to use if you want to up your game
08:57	liwp	Chouser: and there is one class per clojure function?
08:57	Neronus	liwp: That's what I imagined, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. OTOH, clojure functions implement clojure.lang.IFn, so I guess they are instances of some kind :)
08:57	Chouser	each different-arity body in the fn becomes a matching-arity overload of the 'invoke' method
08:58	liwp	ok
08:58	Chouser	there is one class per fn, one instance of it per closure
08:58	Chouser	the class ctor takes args for the values it closes over
08:59	tomoj	so an anonymous function in a loop means a fn class is instantiated each time through?
09:00	cark	just like in c# =)
09:00	tomoj	er, actually I guess there's only one closure there?
09:00	cark	~function is also <Chouser> there is one class per fn, one instance of it per closure
09:00	clojurebot	Alles klar
09:00	tomoj	well... now I'm confused
09:00	AWizzArd	Chouser: do you know if it is possible to declare/type-hint the return value of a function?
09:01	Chousuke	I suppose in a loop you'd be generating multiple closures :/
09:01	Chouser	AWizzArd: (defn #^ReturnType foo [])
09:01	tomoj	but e.g. map with an anon function is just one closure
09:01	Chouser	,(let [fns (for [i (range 3)] (fn [j] (+ i j)))] ((second fns) 3))
09:01	clojurebot	4
09:02	AWizzArd	Chouser: good, thanks.
09:02	Chouser	there we have one class for (fn [j] ...), with three instances stored in the fns seq
09:03	Chouser	the ctor to that class takes a single arg, the value of i for that instance.
09:03	Chouser	here's an implementation detail I learned recently. I wouldn't bet on this working in future until you hear otherwise:
09:03	Chouser	,(let [fns (for [i (range 3)] (fn [j] (+ i j)))] (.i (second fns)))
09:03	clojurebot	1
09:04	liwp	heh
09:04	Chouser	the closed-over value is currently stored in a public field with the same name as the local you closed over
09:05	liwp	sounds like something that will not work in the future with all likelyhood ;_)
09:15	fsm	ok, i changed from agents to pmap
09:16	fsm	now, the overhead of parralelizing my code is barely more than adding a setting for number of cores, and adding the letter p
09:19	fsm	and, any possible thread-unsafe code is confined to one line
09:22	fsm	there are obvious possibilities in increasing developer mean time to heart attack
09:24	AWizzArd	Can one make doseq or map work with a java.util.Enumeration?
09:24	Chouser	,(doc enumeration-seq)
09:24	clojurebot	"([e]); Returns a seq on a java.util.Enumeration"
09:25	AWizzArd	thx
09:26	konr	what do you use as shortcuts to evaluate form, evaluate file, open repl, etc?
09:29	AWizzArd	in Emacs?
09:30	konr	or in any editor... I want to bind my keys in vi, but not sure what to
09:30	mikem	konr: for vim, you want to check out vimclojure
09:30	mikem	~vimclojure
09:30	clojurebot	vimclojure is http://kotka.de/projects/clojure/vimclojure.html
09:31	konr	mikem: haha, I use it, but it doesn't set keybindings
09:31	mikem	konr: it does for me... have you looked in the docs?
09:32	mikem	konr: by default each command is preceded by <leader>, which in vim by default is \ (backslash). so to start the REPL, for instance, I type \sr
09:33	konr	mikem: hmm, it also does that for me, but isn't it a little inconvenient to type three keys [\ e t] to do that? I'm considering changing that to C-something
09:41	mikem	konr: there's a blurb in the doc file (~/.vim/doc/clojure.txt) about mapping commands to keys but first prepending them with <Plug>Clojure. have a look
10:14	konr	mikem: thanks, I'll take a look!
10:50	ankou	hi is Programming Clojure still a beta book or is it finally finished?
10:51	Chouser	ankou: you can buy it in book stores
10:52	ankou	I would prefer to have it as an ebook
10:53	Neronus	ankou: Chouser provided the answer: You can buy it in stores, ergo it is no beta book anymore
10:53	ankou	makes sense, thanks
11:04	krumholt__	ankou, you can buy it in pdf format
11:04	ankou	I just did it:)
11:04	weissj	anyone know if it's still being updated?
11:07	liwp	does anyone heard anything of this: Definitive Guide to Clojure (The Definitive Guide) by Luke VanderHart
11:07	liwp	I didn't know that there was another clojure book in the works...
11:10	Chouser	I seen the web page for that, plus heard about 1 or 2 more in the works besides.
11:10	Chouser	I had seen
11:18	Chouser	Licenser_: in what way is clojure bundled tightly with XML?
11:33	leafw	hi, any alive
11:34	leafw	I would like to understand the following destructuring: [k & ks :as keys] keys
11:34	leafw	this is a slot in a let declaration in the first part of Rick's talk on clojure for lispers
11:35	leafw	so what is ":as keys" doing?
11:35	Chouser	,(let [[k & ks :as keys] (range 5)] {:k k :ks ks :keys keys})
11:35	clojurebot	{:k 0, :ks (1 2 3 4), :keys (0 1 2 3 4)}
11:35	leafw	aha
11:36	leafw	it preserves the whole, beyond the destructuring part.
11:36	leafw	thanks Chouser.
11:36	leafw	a pointer to the whole, rather.
11:36	Chouser	:as binds something to the whole original collection
11:36	Chouser	right
11:36	Chouser	,(let [[k & ks :as keys] '[a b c d e]] {:k k :ks ks :keys keys})
11:36	clojurebot	{:k a, :ks (b c d e), :keys [a b c d e]}
11:37	Chouser	note it doesn't even call seq on the collection before it binds
11:37	leafw	aha, so its the exact thing.
11:37	Chouser	right
11:37	leafw	makes sense.
11:37	leafw	i.e. what I'd expect.
11:58	Licenser	Chouser: sorry I was ofline
12:03	Licenser	Like the biggest part of the libraries on the clojure page is 'Category: xml'
12:05	Licenser	and in a lot of places I found mentioned that Clojure is good for working together nicely with XML
12:05	Chousuke	that has little to do with Clojure itself. It just shows people need XML tools :)
12:06	rsynnott	lots of them, to try to make working with xml a little less hideous
12:06	Chousuke	I think Clojure is just pleasant for XML work because it's easy to build a DSL for representing XML as clojure data structures.
12:07	Chousuke	and because it's so easy, everyone has their own :P
12:07	Chouser	the jvm ships with an xml parser with a horrible api, so it's natural to provide a nice api wrapper around it
12:08	Chousuke	besides, XML is not that bad.
12:08	Chousuke	sure, it's overused and abused (ant...) but it's pretty good still.
12:09	Chouser	better than everyone rolling their own packed binary format
12:09	Chousuke	you have a way for describing your data in a way that lets you to stop worrying about writing a checker for well-formedness etc.
12:10	Chousuke	I don't know if there are any tools for writing schemas for json or validating against such, but I'm not aware of any :/
12:10	Chousuke	for XML, you have eleventy billion implementations.
12:16	Chousuke	Apparently I can't use them from my reader, even though it's clojure.lang.reader :/
12:19	Chousuke	I guess I could make a macro using reflection to get around pesky access restrictions.
12:20	Licenser	I find XML hugely overused
12:20	Licenser	it is often used when other things are way simple
12:20	cark	hum by the way ... how do i do this : i have a with-something macro, and it's supporting with-something* function, the function is declared private. when i call the with-something macro from another namespace, i get an error
12:20	cark	because the function is private
12:20	Licenser	like ant, or the java web application stuff, tomcat etc
12:21	cark	so the question is this : how would i go about calling this private function from my macro
12:22	OlafG26784859392	Hey people
12:22	rottcodd	cark: I think this works (#'ns/fn args)
12:23	cark	ah thanks i'll give it a try
12:23	OlafG	That's better
12:24	OlafG	I need some help
12:25	rsynnott	Chousuke: none of which work properly ;)
12:25	rsynnott	(I'm thinking particularly of SOAP, here)
12:26	OlafG	I want to run a clojure script
12:26	OlafG	but I'm not sure how to install it correctly on ubuntu server
12:46	Chouser	OlafG: fetch the clojure jar, then: java -cp clojure.jar clojure.main your-script.clj
12:47	OlafG	Yeah, I found a guide
12:47	OlafG	and, you're the guy I'm looking for
12:47	OlafG	hehe, I want to use your irssi to html script
12:47	weissj	in a related question, how to i run the repl and have it automatically load a file without havnig to first call (load-file) at the prompt
12:48	OlafG	Chouser: Can't seem to be able to download it from github though :/
12:48	cark	weissj : clojure automatically loads user.clj from the classpath
12:49	weissj	cark: so my file has to be named user.clj? or maybe i can just put the load-file call there?
12:49	cark	either way =)
12:49	weissj	cark: cool
12:51	Chousuke	hmm
12:51	Fossi	hi
12:52	Chousuke	I somehow managed to get them unbalanced.
12:52	Fossi	does somebody know a quick way of adding a java classpath to swank? i'm sick of having to put them in my .emacs
12:52	Chousuke	also, symbol resolution is insane business.
12:52	Fossi	Chousuke: C-SPC right C-X or such ;)
12:53	OlafG	argh
12:53	Fossi	at least with CUA you can force fix them
12:53	Fossi	(and also break them quite easily)
12:53	Chousuke	hm
12:53	Chousuke	I force-inserted a rebalancing paren and deleted the extra sexp :P
12:54	Fossi	to the point that i think about mapping everything to sexp handling and get rid of backward-kill-word and left/right and so on
12:54	Fossi	it's annoying
12:54	OlafG	wow, clojure sounds like complicated shit
12:54	krumholt__	is there a way that load-file will not load a file form by form? i want to write a function foo that uses a function bar. now i have to defn bar above foo or the file will not load. is there another way of loading the file?
12:54	Fossi	OlafG: it's the shit. might get compilicated if you want to ;)
12:55	OlafG	Hehe, firstly I just want to run a script, but not sure if I can mange even that:P
12:55	cark	krumholt__ : you can use declare
12:55	cark	though that's not exactly what you asked
12:55	rhickey	Nice: https://jira.terracotta.org/jira/browse/CDV-1171
12:57	krumholt__	cark, then i would still have to declare every function. i want load-file to figure out the order of evaluation for me :)
12:57	Chouser	OlafG: you're having trouble downloading clojure.jar or the irssi stuff?
12:57	OlafG	irssi stuff
12:57	OlafG	also, last time i tried I couldnt run it
12:57	Fossi	so i guess that's a no then for my emacs/swank question? :(
12:58	cark	krumholt__ : what if you have mutually recursive functions ?
12:58	Chouser	well, I put it up on github more for transparency and backup purposes than with the thought that anyone else would want to use it.
12:58	OlafG	oh, haha, was googling for a way to convert irssi logs to html
12:58	cark	krumholt__ : anyways i guess you could read form by form do your ordering then evaluate ...but it seems fragile
13:00	rhickey	:( https://jira.terracotta.org/jira/browse/CDV-1238
13:00	Chouser	OlafG: it may be useful to you as a starting point, but it's not packaged up or particularly pretty. You'll probably have to adjust the code at least a little.
13:00	OlafG	Oh
13:00	cark	krumholt__ : you would need a code walker, and macroexpansion ... which might not work if the macros are not defined yet
13:01	Chouser	rhickey: that should be too terrible for Clojure code, should it? who uses 'identical?' on strings?
13:01	krumholt__	cark, i guess my question just was. is there already a way to do it or do i have to do it myself
13:02	rhickey	Chouser: symbols and keywords do
13:02	OlafG	Chouser: Do you know another way to convert them to html and maybe split them? I really liked the splitting thing
13:02	cark	krumholt__: i think you'll have to do it yourself
13:03	rhickey	probably only an issue for the few symbols/keywords created in the Java code with string literals, relying on the interning
13:03	clojurebot	for is a loop...in Java
13:04	cemerick	rhickey: all strings going into Symbol are interned, so this shouldn't be an issue, should it?
13:05	rhickey	Symbol.create allows you to create a symbol from a known-interned string
13:05	cemerick	ah, I've never used create
13:06	cemerick	I'd say, drop Symbol.create...two extra intern calls aren't going to hurt anything?
13:06	rhickey	59 uses in Clojure impl
13:07	rhickey	easy enough to make create call intern anyway
13:07	cemerick	even so -- I can imagine most people not knowing/caring what string interning is, and using Symbol.create.
13:08	liwp`	is there an (all?) predicate in core?
13:08	liwp`	or contrib
13:09	cemerick	,(doc every?)
13:09	clojurebot	"([pred coll]); Returns true if (pred x) is logical true for every x in coll, else false."
13:09	liwp`	thanks
13:10	Chousuke	,(identical? `+ `+)
13:10	clojurebot	false
13:10	Chousuke	hmm, good. :P
13:11	Chousuke	though I'm still not sure if I'm creating symbols properly in my resolve-symbol function :/
13:11	rhickey	https://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/182
13:11	Chousuke	it feels very hacking to create symbols and then use str on those symbols when feeding them as parameters to (symbol ...)...
13:11	Chousuke	hackish
13:12	rhickey	,(symbol 'foo)
13:12	clojurebot	foo
13:12	cemerick	rhickey: what sort of API compat are you assuming on the Java back-end? e.g. you might as well eliminate Symbol.intern AFAIC
13:13	Chousuke	rhickey: oh, it works on symbols too. duh. I wonder why I thought it would need strings :/
13:14	rhickey	cemerick: I don't want to eliminate anything at the moment
13:15	Chousuke	http://gist.github.com/174831 here's what I have right now. it seems to produce the correct results for most things.
13:17	rhickey	Very pretty Tom - thanks! http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/
13:18	rhickey	What do we need to do the same for Clojure core API docs?
13:20	weissj	has anyone had any experience trying to attach eclipse debugger to clojure's jvm?
13:23	rhickey	weissj: while it should 'just work', there can be issues in that these IDE debuggers presume the code will be Java - but give it a try, Clojure does support JSR-45, you might need to tell the debugger where the Clojure source is. JSwat works w/o any explicit Clojure support, and NB+enclojure, IntelliJ+LaClojure have explicit support
13:24	weissj	rhickey: ok, i'll give it a try and post the results here
13:24	weissj	i can't deal with netbeans, it runs too slow on this machine
13:28	replaca	rhickey: no problem!
13:29	replaca	rhickey: I need to think about the core stuff a little bit more. Mostly, I just need to parameterize a bunch of stuff, but there'll be some magic getting and running the right version
13:29	replaca	rhickey: I'll prototype on a fork, then we can discuss
13:37	weissj	hm, i am not able to set breakpoints in clojure files in eclipse ui. is there some other way to set them?
14:06	alrex021	I am trying to give clojure-maven-plugin 1.0 a spin but am struggling a bit to get it to work. (Example thats in git is our of date and doesn't run my end) Anyone using v1.0 of the plugin?
14:11	fdaoud	alrex021: I managed to get something to work
14:12	alrex021	fdaoud: I just changed the plugin info to point to new groupId etc... that seems to be going..
14:12	fdaoud	right
14:12	fdaoud	I don't think I needed to do anything else special
14:14	alrex021	I now get "2 required artifacts are missing. ... 1) com.theoryinpractise:clojure-maven-example:jar:1.0-SNAPSHOT 2) org.clojure:clojure-contrib:jar:1.0-SNAPSHOT"
14:15	alrex021	no 1 seems to be referring to the example itself
14:18	fdaoud	alrex021: right, I changed that to something like hello/hello
14:21	LauJensen	Can new new be used to extend existing classes?
14:21	fdaoud	alrex021: I also think that the plugin is fussy about the namespace, the name of the source file, and the directory where the file is located
14:23	Chouser	LauJensen: that's all it can do
14:23	LauJensen	Chouser, extend something like JLabel by adding/overriding methods ?
14:24	Chouser	it can't add methods
14:25	Chouser	oh... "you can add new (e.g. helper) methods not in any super, must have different name (can't add overloads to supers). No way to call those from outside the methods other than via reflection"
14:26	LauJensen	Ok, So no means yes :)
14:26	Chouser	but no way to supply args to the parent class' ctor
14:27	LauJensen	k - I dont recall ever having had that need
14:28	Chouser	I've used that feature of proxy several times, but there are often other ways to solve such problems.
14:29	LauJensen	Interop tends to get messy... when I do it
14:31	LauJensen	My return from using new new, would that then be this potentially anonymous class that I can interact with throughout my code?
14:35	Chouser	yes
14:35	alrex021	fdaoud: I got my own example to work now. Just need to add diff remote repo as maven default didn't seem to have org.clojure artifacts.
14:37	LauJensen	New new will really put me back in business with my JMonkeyWrappers. I choked on the interop
14:39	Chouser	LauJensen: nearly anything you will be able to do with newnew you can already do with proxy, except on the performance front.
14:39	fdaoud	alrex021: which repo did you use? i think i found it on tapestry
14:39	LauJensen	Chouser - I cant remember what exactly it was, but I got very far with proxy, and then this...
14:39	LauJensen	~proxy
14:39	clojurebot	proxy is <Chouser> proxy teases with its ease of use, then suddenly betrays.
14:39	Chouser	yeah. I'm not sure how much newnew will help you there.
14:40	alrex021	fdaoud: http://tapestry.formos.com/maven-snapshot-repository/
14:40	LauJensen	If I can both add and override methods, It'll get me where I need to go
14:40	Chouser	in fact, it may be worse. newnew is primarily about creating new clojure stuff that runs very fast. proxy is primarily about java interop.
14:41	Chouser	I think it's more likely that proxy will gain more interop features than that newnew will.
14:43	LauJensen	Hmm.. The main archetecture of JMonkey, is that you get a few basic classes that you extend into objects that govern every part of the game, ie weatherobject, physicsobjects, vehicleobject and so on. Proxy couldnt do it and I didnt have the patience for gen-class.
14:46	Chouser	I think it would be possible for proxy to provide a thread-safe way to call superclass methods, like gen-class :exposes
14:47	Chouser	well, both :exposes and :exposes-methods
14:48	Chouser	that would reduce proxy's tendency toward betrayal a bit
14:48	Chouser	proxy's pattern for doing init and post-init is already better than gen-class'
14:52	LauJensen	ok... I really wouldnt know :)
15:16	Fossi	"This kind of lexical intercourse" <3 graham
15:27	hiredman	holy dependency downloads batman
15:28	hiredman	running ant in a checkout of clojureql's repo downloads ivy, then uses ivy to download clojure, clojure-contrib, apache derby, etc
15:30	hiredman	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: lazy-cons in this context (backend.clj:81)
15:30	hiredman	:(
15:31	hiredman	ah, old clojureql jar hanging around
15:37	Fossi	recently i had a case where i had a pattern for map entries: key and some rather largish codeblock that only differed in a few spaces
15:38	Fossi	is there a way to capture that into a macro without wrapping the whole or leaving the key part out?
15:38	Fossi	i can't return 2 distinct values from macros or is there a way?
15:40	tomoj	Fossi: huh? what do you want to do
15:40	Chouser	I don't understand what you're trying to do. You're right that a macro can only return a single form, but often you can use (do first-thing second-thing)
15:40	Fossi	let me try to scetch that up
15:40	Fossi	lisppaste8: url
15:40	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
15:44	lisppaste8	Fossi pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86027
15:44	Fossi	it was a little more bloated on the right, but something along those lines
15:44	Fossi	and i have a whole bunch more of those handlers
15:46	Fossi	and i wanted to keep the "token" along with the handler in the definition although it wouldn't really be needed in any of the cases (yet)
15:47	Chouser	handle-stuff is a fn -- you want to call the same one for each value, just with different args?
15:50	Fossi	actually, the handle-stuff isn't even in there
15:51	Chouser	ok. well, anyway, I doubt you need a macro
15:52	Chouser	how about (-> (add-handler "token1" render-func1 :option1 true) (add-handler ...))
15:52	Chouser	er
15:52	Fossi	well, ok, might work with a function as well
15:52	Chouser	(-> {} (add-handler "token1" render-func1 :option1 true) (add-handler ...))
15:52	Chouser	there
15:52	Fossi	yeah, that's what i meant with "wrapping the whole"
15:53	Fossi	it changed the structure of the code
15:53	Fossi	i didn't want to do that
15:53	Fossi	*changes
15:53	Chouser	then (defn add-handler [the-map token-key render & options] (assoc the-map token-key {:render-func render-func ...})
15:54	Chouser	oh, you want to keep { ... } around the whole thing?
15:54	Fossi	that's why i suspected a macro might help. to generate something in that place without changing the map structure
15:55	Fossi	well, it's pretty much random, so i might actually, practically change it later, but i wanted to know whether it's possible somehow
15:56	Fossi	but if i can only return a list from a macro or function i don't see how
15:56	Fossi	*single
15:56	Fossi	i guess i could wrap the whole into another macro
15:57	Chouser	it's an interesting thought. one could almost wish for a defsplicemacro that always returns a seq of things to be spliced in.
15:58	Fossi	i think the wrapping macro idea would work without changing the structure too much
15:58	Chouser	well, you wouldn't need your own wrapping macro. -> already exists and would suffice in this case I believe.
15:59	Fossi	ie, just having a macro around that changes {(macrocall) (macrocall)} into {(first (macrocall)) (rest (macrocall))...
16:00	Chousuke	too bad you can't just do `{~(generate-code) ~(generate-code)} :/
16:00	Fossi	ah. well -> wouldn't let me keep the 'mappiness'
16:00	Fossi	i guess
16:01	Fossi	i now realize this would be a really stupid place to do this anyway ;D
16:01	Chousuke	,`{1 ~@(list 1 2 3)}
16:01	clojurebot	{1 1, 2 3}
16:01	Chousuke	,`{~@(list 1 2 3 4)}
16:01	clojurebot	1
16:01	Chousuke	reader problem :/
16:02	Fossi	hmmm. interesting idea though
16:02	Chousuke	,{1}
16:02	clojurebot	java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 1
16:02	Chousuke	hmm
16:02	Fossi	gotta love those error messages
16:03	Chousuke	:)
16:03	Fossi	at first you go "wtf"
16:03	Fossi	then it's "WTF?!!!"
16:03	Chousuke	the implementation just shines through a bit :P
16:03	Fossi	and after a while it's just "oh, i forgot a value in some map. ah, there it is"
16:04	Fossi	"a bit" ;D
16:07	Fossi	Chousuke: so, why exactly doesn't that work?
16:10	Chousuke	Fossi: I'm not sure.
16:10	Fossi	it almost seems to do what i want
16:11	Chousuke	Fossi: probably because in {~@(whatever)} the map only has one element so it can't be read in the first place, but in {1 ~@(whatever)} there are two elements so the map can be read before the splicing happens.
16:11	Chouser	well, you're still wrapping the whole thing, if only in a `
16:12	Fossi	agreed, but it seems there is no way without wrapping the whole
16:15	hiredman	do clojureql calls need to be wrapped with something besides with-connection?
16:15	hiredman	I run my insert-into statement, get {:table jobs, :columns (:name), :env ("Rascals")} back, but the table appears to be empty
16:19	Fossi	n8
16:40	wavister	does memoize use soft references?
16:41	hiredman	~def memoize
16:41	cark	~def memoize
16:41	cark	!
16:41	hiredman	ugh
16:41	hiredman	chrome does not like github
16:41	cark	works for me
16:41	hiredman	looks like it uses a normal persistaent map
16:43	alrex021	in clojure is there a way to get the name of function that we are currently in? (Something like in java ..this.getClass().getName())?
16:43	wavister	yup... ok. but that's cool. i could re implement that with a weak map or something
16:47	Chouser	alrex021: for logging or something?
16:47	alrex021	yes, exactly, very simple logging using println to be exact
16:48	alrex021	I'm in -main, so want to print .... (println fn-name " .... ")
16:48	alrex021	or any other func for that matter
16:49	Chouser	I can't think of any way to get that currently
16:51	alrex021	No worries, I take its something you wouldn't want to perhaps do often in fp. I'm curious to know though how does logging framework, if currently any, handle this?
16:51	Chouser	not all code has a top-level fn name that would mean anything
16:52	Chouser	you can get the current file name
16:52	Chouser	,file
16:52	clojurebot	"NO_SOURCE_PATH"
16:53	Chouser	,(.getLineNumber (first (.getStackTrace (Exception.))))
16:53	clojurebot	0
16:54	Chouser	that could get you a line number at runtime.
16:54	Chouser	I suppose between the two, you might be able to find the .clj source and construct an appropriate name
16:55	alrex021	Chouser: thanks
17:42	krumholt__	there is no difference between a struct and a map or is there? a struct is just a nice way if you have to create a similar map over and over again?
17:43	citizen428	i'm trying to download a file via http from within my clojure program... i was thinking duck-streams, but i can't seem to figure it out. any pointers?
17:46	replaca	citizen428: there's a nice example on the doc for http-agent for doing an http download with duck streams
17:47	replaca	http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/http.agent-api.html
17:47	citizen428	replaca: really? i have looked for something like that half the day... :( thanks a lot!
17:48	Chouser	krumholt__: a struct is a kind of map. other kinds of maps include hash-maps and sorted-maps.
17:48	replaca	citizen428: np
17:49	Chouser	I do wish for better string and char literals. Perhaps I should give some thought to what they would be...
17:53	krumholt__	Chouser, so they are all maps with different implementations? but they do the same thing. should this bother me in any way?
17:54	Chouser	krumholt__: they each have their own benefits and drawbacks, but all provide a common interface and make a common set of promises. This should make you joyful. :-)
17:55	Chouser	for example, you can use assoc to insert a key/value into any of them, they will all do this persistently -- a common interface with a common promise
17:55	krumholt__	Chouser, so in the end i coult just change (def foo (hashmap ...)) to (def foo (sorted-map ..)) and everything still works. ok then i will worry about what the benefits of each map type are later
17:55	Chouser	that's right.
17:56	krumholt__	thanks
17:57	Chouser	well, everything that's promised will work. From the docs, "Hash maps require keys that correctly support hashCode and equals. Sorted maps require keys that implement Comparable, or an instance of Comparator."
17:57	Chouser	lots of objects provide both and so can be keys of either.
17:57	krumholt__	i use keywords as keys
17:58	Chouser	those will work great in hash maps, sorted maps, struct maps, and array maps. :-)
17:59	krumholt__	ok thanks :)
18:24	mudphone	hey folks, anyone know what the type hint is for a String array?
18:24	mudphone	or better yet, where I can find a comprehensive list of type hints?
18:28	krumholt__	i would guess you can type hint every java class?
18:29	mudphone	well, my questions is... for example, for an array of bytes, the type hint is #^bytes
18:29	mudphone	I want to know what the type hint syntax is for a String[]
18:29	hiredman	,(class (into-array ["foo" "bar"]))
18:29	clojurebot	[Ljava.lang.String;
18:29	mudphone	#^Strings
18:29	hiredman	mudphone: why are you type hinting an array of strings?
18:30	hiredman	no
18:30	hiredman	#^bytes and such are special cases hardwired into the compiler
18:31	mudphone	we're calling a Java library
18:31	mudphone	hiredman: thanks, but why do you ask? Is it a bad idea?
18:32	mudphone	the library takes a String[] as one of its arguments
18:32	mudphone	we're wrapping it
18:32	hiredman	mudphone: just pass it a String[]
18:32	hiredman	no need for type hinting
18:33	mudphone	Won't it use reflection to make the Java call then?
18:33	hiredman	mudphone: I am pretty sure it won't
18:33	mudphone	we profiled our process and saw a lot of time in reflection (in general)
18:33	hiredman	you can set warn-on-reflection and see
18:34	hiredman	the reflection stuff happens because the type signauter for clojure Fn's is all based on Object
18:34	hiredman	but jave methods have specific type signatures so reflection should not be needed
18:34	mudphone	fot the warn-on-reflection setting, where do we set that? and trigger it?
18:35	mudphone	hiredman: hmm
18:35	hiredman	(set! warn-on-reflection true)
18:35	hiredman	,(doc warn-on-reflection)
18:35	clojurebot	"; When set to true, the compiler will emit warnings when reflection is needed to resolve Java method calls or field accesses. Defaults to false."
18:35	mudphone	do we have to compile to see that? or just run as normal?
18:35	mudphone	(ie ahead of time)
18:36	hiredman	no, you don't need to do aot compiling
18:36	hiredman	just keep in the mind warning happens at compile time (when code is loaded) as opposed to when it is running
18:36	mudphone	so you just see standard output then?
18:37	mudphone	ah
18:37	hiredman	p=> (defn f [x] (.toString x))
18:37	hiredman	Reflection warning, NO_SOURCE_PATH:234 - reference to field toString can't be resolved.
18:37	mudphone	so, for example, eval-ing the buffer in emacs will give you your warning?
18:37	hiredman	dunno, don't use emacs
18:37	mudphone	what editor do you use?
18:37	hiredman	vim
18:38	mudphone	ah
18:42	hiredman	~performance
18:42	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
18:42	hiredman	bah
18:43	hiredman	~performance is <reply>http://clojure.org/java_interop#toc46
18:43	clojurebot	Ok.
18:43	mudphone	hiredman: thanks, it gives the warning in via the slime repl (in emacs), in case you ever come to the dark side
18:45	jfields	what would I used in clojure to create a single result from a seq. I'm looking for something similar to Ruby's inject.
18:46	mudphone	reduce?
18:46	mudphone	,(doc reduce)
18:46	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f val coll]); f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied, returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll contains no items, f must accept no arguments as well, and reduce returns the result of calling f with no arguments. If coll has only 1 item, it is returned and f is not called. If val is supplied, returns the r
18:46	jfields	cool. thanks.
18:47	hiredman	inject is such a weird name for that
18:47	clojurebot	for is not a loop
18:48	hiredman	clojurebot: shut it
18:48	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
19:03	bitbckt	hiredman: That's why it's aliased as #reduce in Ruby 1.9... thankfully.
19:03	bitbckt	(and finally)
19:37	lowlycoder	is there a good example of a clojure server serving clojure repls over tcpip anywhere?
19:51	tomoj	lowlycoder: well have you seen http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/server-socket-api.html ?
19:51	tomoj	not an example,but..
19:51	cark	doesn't swank just do that ?
19:52	tomoj	if you run your code inside emacs, I guess?
19:52	cark	you can use swank without emacs
19:53	tomoj	I'd love to see an example of that too, then :)
19:55	mikem	there's also the nailgun server that comes with vimclojure
19:55	bryteise	http://blog.asymmetrical-view.com/2009/08/20/emacs-slime-remote-repl.html
19:55	lowlycoder	tomoj: nice; thanks
19:55	lowlycoder	i find nailgun/vimclojure to be unstable
19:56	lowlycoder	the code is so short and elegant, there must be a catch
19:56	tomoj	bryteise: awesome, thanks
20:24	cark	did compojure's redef eventually make it to contrib ?
20:42	Chouser	should clojure finger-trees be designed with an eye toward IEditableCollection?
20:42	clojurebot	clojure is like life: you make trade-offs
20:42	Chouser	should they produce seqs with chunks of 2 to 4, or just non-chunked seqs?
22:11	hiredman	~ping
22:11	clojurebot	PONG!
22:19	hiredman	clojurebot works on a newer fnparse, if anyone cares
22:19	dmix	I can't get slime to work with swank for some reason, when I hit M-x slime I get this error (in aquamacs): http://gist.github.com/175252 this is my .emacs http://gist.github.com/175255
22:21	hiredman	looks like swank is not on your classpath
22:21	JAS415	yep
22:21	dmix	how do I add it to my classpath?
22:21	hiredman	~classpath
22:21	clojurebot	classpath is (System/getProperty "java.class.path")
22:22	dmix	"/Users/dmix/src/swank-clojure:/Users/dmix/Library/Clojure/lib/clojure.jar:/Users/dmix/Library/Clojure/lib/jline.jar:/Users/dmix/Library/Clojure/lib/clojure-contrib.jar"
22:22	dmix	er
22:22	dmix	so it is in the classpath
22:22	dmix	swank-clojure
22:23	JAS415	so you can add it to the .clj or i think there is an emacsen way to do it
22:23	hiredman	uh
22:23	hiredman	what is in /Users/dmix/src/swank-clojure?
22:23	dmix	hiredman: swank-clojure.el swank/ etc
22:24	hiredman	just because you have some directory that has "swank" in it's name on your classpath it does not mean swank is on you classpath
22:24	hiredman	what is in swank/
22:24	dmix	a bunch of clj's
22:25	dmix	ie swank.clj
22:25	hiredman	that sounds good
22:26	hiredman	maybe add a "/" after swank-clojure
22:26	JAS415	can't you do wildcards
22:27	hiredman	JAS415: if he has JDK1.6 he can
22:27	JAS415	I have one that is '~/hacking/clj/current-work/*:'
22:27	JAS415	it loads all of my 'current work'
22:27	JAS415	although right now that's a mash of things
22:28	JAS415	so could do same with swank folder
22:28	JAS415	needs the : after the * though, for some reason..
22:32	dmix	alright, got it working, I cloned the latest git swank-clojure and put it in a new folder, then added it to the class path
22:32	dmix	thanks btw
23:27	djkthx	is there a short-hand for defining a case-insensitive regex using the # reader macro?
23:35	hiredman	,(re-find #"(?i)foo" "FOO")
23:35	clojurebot	"FOO"
23:35	hiredman	(?i) means case insensative in java regexs
23:36	djkthx	ah, interesting
23:36	djkthx	i was always used to seeing it like /asdf/i
23:36	djkthx	thanks!
23:49	mebaran151	I can't seem to get the new enclojure plugin to work: it can't find clojure contrib pretty print even thought clojure contrib is in my classpath
23:49	mebaran151	anybody have any tips?
23:51	hiredman	did you compile clojure contrib properly?
23:58	mikem	hiredman: do you mean compiling it like so: ant -Dclojure.jar=../clojure/clojure.jar
23:59	hiredman	yes