#clojure – 2015-05-27

2015-05-27

00:28	sdegutis	ok
00:31	currento_
00:34	sdegutis	ok
00:34	sdegutis	Hi.
00:35	sdegutis	I heard something about using monads to make Datomic usage cleaner in Clojure.
00:35	sdegutis	I think the pattern goes: all lower-level functions just manipulate and return transactions, and the highest-level function receives this and commits it to Datomic.
00:36	sdegutis	They do this by composing functions that return either a transaction or an error, and are composable such that if any functino returns an error, the rest of the chain propagates the error instead of building up the transaction with the next function.
00:36	sdegutis	I think this is what monads are for, right?
00:38	sdegutis	I like the idea behind it, I just don't fully know how to execute it.
00:47	Viesti	hum
00:49	Viesti	I'm finding myself looking for an enumeration which maintains order
00:53	Viesti	In my case a have a UI which shows a set of options, these options are keywords which would be neat to keep in a set so that I could then do contains? and use the set as a predicate
00:53	Viesti	but set doesn't maintain order...
00:54	Viesti	so iterating over it in the UI would not show the literal order
00:55	Viesti	I ran into this library, which looks neat: https://github.com/amalloy/ordered
00:55	Viesti	just thinking that is the a simpler solution...
00:55	Viesti	I could put the options into a vector
00:55	Viesti	and then convert to set when needed
00:55	Viesti	but hmm...
00:57	zematis	not a clojureist - I just lurk here. But a sorted-set is what you need Viesti
00:58	Viesti	which leads to making up a rank for each keyword
00:58	Viesti	could have the rank stuff in the ui only though
00:59	Viesti	just thinking that is what I'm looking for overkill :)
00:59	Viesti	and there seems to be a library too so using it would be easiest :)
00:59	zematis	this maybe..
00:59	zematis	https://clojuredocs.org/clojure.core/sorted-set
01:12	andyf	Viesti: sorted-set will do it if the default ordering is acceptable. sorted-set-by lets you supply a custom comparator function.
01:13	andyf	Viesti: If the order you want is not easily specified by a comparator function, then something like am alloy's ordered may be useful.
01:23	Viesti	andyf: yep, ordered-set from amalloy is nice since I get insertion order, which is the same as in the literal expression that I write
01:23	Viesti	s/same/same order
01:27	WickedShell	to any seesaw experts out there, if I provide my own repaint method for a component, is there a way I can call super() within it?
01:28	Viesti	ordered-set/ordered-map implementations seem to have a vector for maintaining the order (in the set case a map is used also) which is similar to what I'd probably need to do otherwise to keep insertion order
01:33	WickedShell	oh I see, I can actually control that in seesaw, with a more advanced paint component
02:10	WickedShell	stupid question, how do you require a map in a function signature without listing required keys? (ie the function supports a large number of keys and I need to test with contains? inside the function to determine if I should use that key
02:18	andyf	WickedShell: Meaning you want an exception to be thrown if that argument is not a map? One way to do that is a precondition. That feature is built into Clojure. Another is to use Prismatic's Schema library, I think (I haven't used it).
02:19	WickedShell	well I figured if I called (contains? foo :bar) and foo wasn't a map I'd get an error, was trying to see if I could solve it at the function signature level
02:19	andyf	To see an example precondition, search for :pre on this page http://clojure.org/special_forms
02:20	andyf	you could also require only one key in the signature, and use :as foo to give the entire map the name foo
02:20	WickedShell	andyf: while not what I was looking for thats really intresting to know in general
02:22	andyf	Searching for :as on that same page has examples for both vector/sequence arguments, as well as maps
03:58	acron^	rich hickey always reminds me of weird al ...teehee
03:59	acron^	haha, and i'm not the only one
03:59	acron^	https://twitter.com/mrspeaker/status/561935228189831169
04:10	WickedShell	I'm having trouble with a case statement, I know I have valid messages coming in, but I only ever execute the default case here. http://pastebin.com/2TV0GMWx (moving away from my if/else blocks that went in in early testing, function calls are identical to what they were before)
04:42	mnngfltg	dysfun, thanks!
04:43	dysfun	however, it can be made shorter, sec
04:43	dysfun	well firstly there's the extra paren before the arglist
04:44	dysfun	it's single arity, so you don't need it
04:44	dysfun	and there are some primitive functions that more concisely express it
04:44	dysfun	(is the cheatsheet slow to load for anyone else right now?)
04:46	mnngfltg	https://gist.github.com/pesterhazy/fc8930c8eaa4f2eadc02
04:46	mnngfltg	here's my current version
04:47	mnngfltg	let's merge it into clojure.core :)
04:48	mnngfltg	(j/k, I'm sure it's flawed somehow)
04:49	dysfun	you say flawed, i say improvable
04:49	dysfun	next one is you can create an assertionerror with AssertionError.
04:49	dysfun	(instead of (new AssertionError.
04:50	dysfun	then there's if-some, which combines the let with the nil check
04:50	dysfun	,(defmacro guard-nil [x] `(if-some [v# ~x] v# (throw (AssertionError. (str "Nil guard gailed: " (pr-str '~x))))))
04:50	clojurebot	#'sandbox/guard-nil
04:50	dysfun	,(guard-nil false)
04:50	clojurebot	false
04:50	dysfun	,(guard-nil nil)
04:50	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Nil guard gailed: nil"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.AssertionError\n :message "Nil guard gailed: nil"\n :at [sandbox$eval79 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" 0]}]\n :trace\n [[sandbox$eval79 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" 0]\n [clojure.lang.Compiler eval "Compiler.java" 6792]\n [clojure.lang.Compiler eval "Compiler.java" 6755]\n [clojure.core$eval invoke "core.clj" 3079]\n [clojure.core$ev...
04:51	dysfun	well, bar the typo in the error message
04:53	mnngfltg	didn't know about `if-some`
04:54	dysfun	yeah i only discovered it last week :)
04:54	mnngfltg	it's new in 1.6 so we can be excused for that
04:55	dysfun	shrug 1.6 has been out for a long time
04:55	dysfun	i think the whole time i've been programming clojure seriously actually
04:56	mnngfltg	yes, but a lot of the code out there (which we've been reading) predates 1.6
04:56	mnngfltg	and you learn from reading other people's code, for the most part
04:59	mnngfltg	https://gist.github.com/pesterhazy/fc8930c8eaa4f2eadc02 <-- here's my amended version
05:10	zot	is there a cleaner way to take a series of things, and make a map of thing -> #{child1 child2 ..} ? I have working code here, but it feels pretty sloppy: https://gist.github.com/benfleis/ddf17381dcd7dd112236
05:11	TEttinger	zot, map or set?
05:11	zot	the outer thing is a map, the values within are sets
05:11	TEttinger	ah
05:12	zot	the code above seems to work from some tests; just feels very bulky, like i'm missing something far more idiomatic
05:12	TEttinger	I'm not sure what your input looks like
05:12	zot	the 3rd term is sample input
05:13	zot	i'll add the output in the gist, 1 sec.
05:13	TEttinger	a vector of quoted vectors?
05:13	TEttinger	why quote the inner vectors though?
05:13	markp	good morning folks - where is the user forum for leiningen?
05:13	TEttinger	,[[and 1 2 3][not 1 2]]
05:13	zot	this was code that was being used w/ expresso
05:13	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/and"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/and, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6543]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure....
05:13	TEttinger	oh
05:13	TEttinger	that's why
05:14	TEttinger	markp: uh, probably github issues or ask here
05:14	zot	yeah, just using the symbols as they specify. could be keywords, etc. for the generic case.
05:15	markp	thanks TE*, will do
05:15	TEttinger	but github issues is for actual problems with lein
05:16	TEttinger	not just how to use. if you have some how-to-type questions, probably many of the people in here can answer
05:16	zot	TEttinger: gist updated w/ resulting values (as desired)
05:16	TEttinger	ok
05:17	zot	perhaps simpler to have just asked for input -> output, to avoid mixing in my ugly sol'n :)
05:17	TEttinger	,(def conjuncts ['[and f1 f2 f3] '[and f1 f2] '[not f4]])
05:17	clojurebot	#'sandbox/conjuncts
05:18	TEttinger	,(into {} (map (juxt identity rest) conjuncts))
05:18	clojurebot	{[and f1 f2 f3] (f1 f2 f3), [and f1 f2] (f1 f2), [not f4] (f4)}
05:18	TEttinger	,(into {} (map (juxt identity (comp set rest)) conjuncts))
05:18	clojurebot	{[and f1 f2 f3] #{f1 f3 f2}, [and f1 f2] #{f1 f2}, [not f4] #{f4}}
05:25	zot	TEttinger: bingo :) I really need to remember juxt in my mental toolbox… it's been the answer for the last 2 of these questions!
05:25	zot	(inc TEttinger)
05:25	lazybot	⇒ 56
05:27	TEttinger	cool!
05:33	mnngfltg	zot, `juxt` and `reduce` are in my box of "things that don't occur to you until you realize they're the obvious tool"
05:37	TEttinger	reductions too
05:37	TEttinger	frequencies is handy but it's usually obvious when you need it
05:38	WickedShell	I've inadvertently designed my program around a feature that has been added to development core.async and shows up in documentation, but is not in the last release version (which was done sep 2014). Is there a preffered method to build and include it within my project from the bleeding edge on github?
05:38	J_Arcane	I'm terrible at thinking up more than fairly innocuous uses of reduce.
05:42	TEttinger	&(reductions + (range 21))
05:42	lazybot	⇒ (0 1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45 55 66 78 91 105 120 136 153 171 190 210)
05:42	TEttinger	triangular numbers
05:43	kasterma	Here is a question on juxt and how to maybe avoid it. I have https://gist.github.com/kasterma/538aaf8e279e04b2234f
05:43	kasterma	checking a rule in a sudoku
05:44	kasterma	nos-locs is the combination of numbers and locations where they appear in the sodoku
05:44	kasterma	Reasonable use of juxt (which is why I thought of it now).
05:45	kasterma	To heavy handed use of frequencies and filter it seems to me.
05:46	TEttinger	I'm uh not sure what your sudoku looks like, or what a rule looks like
05:46	kasterma	A sudoku is a vector of length 9 with vectors of length 9 in it
05:47	kasterma	a rule is a vector of length 9 of pairs (locations).
05:48	TEttinger	I'd make get-loc take a pair so you don't need to apply, that bit is just a bit needlessly confusing
05:49	TEttinger	unless you explicitly need to make a partial with only one element of the pair
05:49	TEttinger	just change the def to (defn get-loc [sud [i j]]
05:49	kasterma	yeah, that would save the apply
05:50	TEttinger	good ol' destructuring
07:54	timvisher	,(if-let [[ohai] []] ohai 'made-it)
07:54	clojurebot	nil
07:54	timvisher	,(if-let [[ohai] [1]] ohai 'made-it)
07:54	clojurebot	1
07:54	timvisher	,(if-let [[ohai] nil] ohai 'made-it)
07:54	clojurebot	made-it
07:55	timvisher	is that the expected behavior for everyone else?
07:55	timvisher	i'm quite surprised by it
07:55	timvisher	:)
07:55	Reefersleep	Hello everyone. Anyone use vim-fireplace and know how to resolve dependencies when doing cpp/cpR or whatever it is I need to do to send the current buffer to the REPL?
07:57	Reefersleep	Actually, my problem stems from just trying to evaluate the current buffer in order to properly syntax highlight function calls to required dependencies :/
07:58	Reefersleep	Trying to get vim-clojure-highlight to work.
07:58	heurist	Reefersleep: I am not at a repl ATM, so the fingers-knowledge maybe wrong, but to eval a whole file I sometimes use ggcpG
08:00	Reefersleep	heurist: Cheers. Let me just paste the result from that:
08:02	gfredericks	sdegutis: you could call the jvm method that clojure calls, which would give you determinism
08:03	gfredericks	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/Collections.html#shuffle%28java.util.List,%20java.util.Random%29
08:03	Reefersleep	CompilerException java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clj_time/core__init.class or clj_time/core.clj on classpath: , compiling:(vim_clojure_highlight_example/ex.clj:1:44)
08:04	Reefersleep	ah sorry, gotta go, be back later. Will stay on the channel though :)
08:04	justin_smith	OK, that is not vim at all
08:05	justin_smith	that's a deps issue
08:10	zot	timvisher: seems intuitive to me; the binding-form test is true, even w/ [] — if you want to invert the nil condition, you need to call (first …) in the test, methinks.
08:13	timvisher	zot: what do you mean by 'the binding-form test is true, even w/ []'? it's entirely likely that I don't understand conditionals in clojure, but i would expect anything that returned falsey there to trigger the alternative rather than the consequent
08:13	timvisher	,(if-let [[ohai] [nil]] ohai 'made-it)
08:13	clojurebot	nil
08:13	timvisher	amazing
08:13	zot	,(first [])
08:13	clojurebot	nil
08:13	zot	(boolean [])
08:13	timvisher	,(if-let [ohai nil] ohai 'made-it)
08:13	clojurebot	made-it
08:13	zot	,(boolean [])
08:13	clojurebot	true
08:13	zot	the thing returned is [], which is true
08:14	zot	if you change the entire expression to:
08:14	timvisher	where is `[]` returned?
08:14	timvisher	is that how binding works?
08:14	zot	it's the RHS of that binding
08:14	justin_smith	zot: in (if-let [[ohai] [nil]] ...) it's [nil] which is tested, and that is truthy
08:14	zot	right
08:14	timvisher	wow
08:15	zot	(he didn't use [nil], but [], but for this case, the destructuring is the same)
08:15	justin_smith	,(boolean [nil]) ; what was actually tested
08:15	clojurebot	true
08:15	justin_smith	right
08:15	timvisher	i guess that's the part that i was confused about
08:15	timvisher	i assumed that the symbol that i was destructuring into was the one that would be tested
08:15	justin_smith	timvisher: yeah, we don't do false punning for empty collections
08:15	timvisher	not the 'intermediate' vector
08:15	zot	,(if [ohai (first [])] ohai 'made-it)
08:15	justin_smith	,(boolean ())
08:15	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: ohai in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ohai in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6543]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: ohai in this co...
08:15	clojurebot	true
08:15	zot	,(if-let [ohai (first [])] ohai 'made-it)
08:15	clojurebot	made-it
08:16	zot	that's the line you want, if you want [] to trigger a false eval
08:16	timvisher	zot: yes. i'm aware of the use of first there :)
08:16	zot	ok
08:16	timvisher	my point was that i would've expected to not have to use it
08:16	justin_smith	another option ##(if-let [[a] (some [])] 'made-it a)
08:16	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context
08:16	justin_smith	err
08:17	zot	the doc says pretty clearly that the result of test is checked — the binding form is a separate beast
08:17	timvisher	my model of how if-let destructuring worked was basically that it unrolled to `(let [[ohai] s] (if ohai consequent alternative))`
08:17	timvisher	obviously it does not
08:17	timvisher	:)
08:18	timvisher	and in fact now that i actually type that out it doesn't even make any sense
08:18	justin_smith	,(if-let [a (not-empty [])] a 'made-it)
08:18	clojurebot	made-it
08:18	timvisher	but nevertheless that's what i thought
08:18	zot	understood
08:18	zot	seems to be often like that — intuition betrays, until you think further about it, and your intuition gets updated
08:18	zot	s/seems/clojure &/
08:18	justin_smith	,(if-let [[a] (not-empty [1])] a 'made-it)
08:18	clojurebot	1
08:18	justin_smith	,(if-let [[a] (not-empty [])] a 'made-it)
08:18	clojurebot	made-it
08:19	timvisher	zot: lol. making no claims at all about my intuition getting better. this smacks of something that i will come back with in 6 months when i try to do it again and it doesn't work. :)
08:19	justin_smith	I'm rather fond of not-empty
08:19	timvisher	my neurons are quite unimpressionable :)
08:19	zot	yes, it seems very useful
08:20	m1dnight_	I was reading up on the volatile keyword in java. Is it okay to ask a question about that in here?
08:20	justin_smith	,(if (not-empty "") 'full 'empty)
08:20	clojurebot	empty
08:24	timvisher	justin_smith, zot: thanks for the ideas. i don't particularly like either one a whole lot more than just having an explicit let with a conditional inside it, but they do seem like useful alternatives.
08:45	tsdh	Is there something that helps emitting EDN data? Basically, I want to be able to serialize my app's own data types (using custom tags) plus anything supported by default, e.g., serializing a map from UUIDs to vectors of my.app/Foo objects (or any other mix) should just work.
08:45	justin_smith	tsdh: pr-str / pr are my usual gotos
08:46	tsdh	justin_smith: But how to I tell pr/pr-str how my.app.CustomType instances have to be serialized?
08:46	justin_smith	if your custom data types are created with defrecord, pr will work with them too
08:46	tsdh	justin_smith: No, they aren't.
08:46	justin_smith	tsdh: you're out of luck I guess
08:47	justin_smith	there's a multimethod you can implement, I forget the name
08:47	tsdh	justin_smith: I guess you mean print-method, right?
08:47	justin_smith	is that the one that prints readably?
08:49	tsdh	justin_smith: Indeed, so probably print-dup?
08:49	justin_smith	sounds right, you'll also need to define custom reader macros of course
08:49	justin_smith	it's a lot easier to just use defrecord in the first place
08:52	tsdh	justin_smith: Yes, the readers are dispatched automatically. I hoped that something like that is also true for the writers. defrecord is no option as my custom objects are defined by plain Java interfaces.
08:54	Reefersleep	justin_smith: how do I fix the dependencies issue?
08:58	Reefersleep	To reiterate (for justin_smith and anyone else familiar with vim-fireplace): upon doing ggcpG, I get CompilerException java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clj_time/core__init.class or clj_time/core.clj on classpath: , compiling:(vim_clojure_highlight_example/ex.clj:1:44)
08:59	Reefersleep	I _think_ I've put all the right things into :dependencies in project.clj .
09:01	luxbock	Bronsa: with tools.analyzer, if I have a :binding node of a let-bound local, is there a way for me to somehow fetch the node for the let-form it's from, or would I need to grab that information by going top-down instead?
09:03	Reefersleep	Anyone know how I can figure out how to amend my FileNotFoundException upon doing ggcpG in a vim buffer with vim-fireplace?
09:07	Bronsa	luxbock: no, there are no cycles in the AST
09:07	justin_smith	Reefersleep: as I said above, it is not a fireplace issue
09:07	justin_smith	Reefersleep: how did you add the dep for clj-time?
09:09	Reefersleep	justin_smith: like this: http://pastebin.com/VTAkKx2F
09:09	justin_smith	have you restarted your repl since that dep was present?
09:09	justin_smith	if you run (System/getenv "PWD") does it show a directory inside your project?
09:10	justin_smith	I have to leave for work, I'll be back later, I'm sure others can help though
09:10	Reefersleep	cheers justin_smith
09:10	Reefersleep	not sure I've restarted the REPL
09:11	Reefersleep	might very well be that
09:19	shaym	Hi , i am trying to use JPA from clojure , i added the JPA and hibernate deps , but i am getting a class not found exception on one of the hibernate classes
09:19	shaym	(def emf (javax.persistence.Persistence/createEntityManagerFactory ""))
09:20	shaym	java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError .... org.hibernate.ejb.Ejb3Configuration
09:20	luxbock	Bronsa: say I have the AST for a top-level form called T, and then I have an inner-node that contains a locally bound variable called X, and I'd like to find the node for the let-form where X was bound (in the scope of the inner node)
09:20	Reefersleep	Upon doing ggcpG now in a vim buffer with vim-fireplace, I am now getting CompilerException java.lang.IllegalAccessError: Readport does not exist, compiling:(vim_clojure_highl ight_example/ex.clj:1:44)
09:20	Reefersleep	Anyone have a clue why? :)
09:20	shaym	do i need to specially import each dependent class?
09:21	chouser	shaym: No, I wouldn't think so.
09:21	luxbock	Bronsa: would you say the easiest way to find that node would be to call clojure.tools.analyzer.ast/nodes on the top-level node, and then filter for all nodes who contain the location of the inner node per their :line, :column, :line-end and :column-end
09:21	shaym	chouser, yes that is what i was suspecting
09:22	luxbock	and then filtering for let and letfn nodes, and taking the last one of those
09:22	luxbock	so that (let [x 10] (let [x 9] (foobar x))) would still find the inner let instead of the outer
09:28	Reefersleep	I figured out the Readport thing. Ach, all I'm really trying to do is to replicate the .gif before/after example given for vim-clojure-highlight at https://github.com/guns/vim-clojure-highlight
09:29	Reefersleep	Can't get it to work - method calls to outside modules are not highlighted
09:32	Bronsa	luxbock: you are using t.a.jvm right?
09:32	luxbock	Bronsa: yes
09:32	Bronsa	luxbock: then the uniquify-locals pass is being run -- each local has a uique id
09:33	luxbock	Bronsa: is that the loop-id?
09:33	Bronsa	luxbock: no, :name
09:34	Bronsa	luxbock: so in (let [x 1] (let [x 2] x)) the fist x will have :name x#__1, the second one x#__2
09:34	Bronsa	and the x local wil refer to x#__2
09:35	luxbock	Bronsa: ahh I see, yeah that should help
09:35	Bronsa	luxbock: IOW shadowing is explicit, once you extract the local :name it shouldn't be hard to locate the original let form
09:36	luxbock	what does IOW mean?
09:36	Bronsa	in other words :)
09:36	luxbock	ok :)
09:36	luxbock	thanks
09:36	Bronsa	np
09:47	Reefersleep	To anyone following my stream of questions: I think I finally grokked vim-clojure-highlight
09:48	tsdh	How do I serialize a map as EDN? (binding [print-dup true] (pr my-map)) results in #=(clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap/create {...}). Omitting the print-dup binding works but I need that because I've defined EDN representations for other data in terms of the print-dup multimethod.
09:50	tsdh	Of course, I could use clojure.core/read with read-eval set to true to read that back but I'd prefer to be able to use clojure.edn/read.
10:06	justin_smith	Reefersleep: what was the secret?
10:11	luxbock	I really wish when-let and if-let allowed multiple bindings
10:11	Reefersleep	justin_smith: I had misspelled a reference, which was a minor obstacle
10:12	justin_smith	luxbock: I forget what it is called, but flatland/useful has something like this
10:12	Reefersleep	justin_smith: but really, after restarting the REPL with the correct dependencies in my project.clj, all I needed to do was to ggcpG followed by :e
10:12	Reefersleep	it was the :e step that I think tripped me up
10:12	justin_smith	awesome
10:13	Reefersleep	I'm now trying to figure out how I can automatize it, I don't want to type that out all the time
10:13	luxbock	justin_smith: there's a lot of great stuff in many utility libraries, but I don't really want to add them as a dependency for something I need to use once
10:13	Reefersleep	looking through .vimrcs on github
10:13	justin_smith	luxbock: fair enough - useful tends to be, dare I say... useful, so pays off a few times once added to a project.
10:14	luxbock	justin_smith: also if I'm working on someone elses project then adding a new dependency like that feels a bit rude
10:14	justin_smith	Reefersleep: regarding the restarting the repl after adding the dep thing, a convenient thing to have in your ~/.lein/profiles.clj is pallet/alembic, which has the function still/load-project which adds all new deps without restarting the repl
10:14	justin_smith	luxbock: oh, in that case yeah, maybe you can copy paste the def :P
10:16	Reefersleep	justin_smith: cool, let me check that out
10:16	justin_smith	it's one of the things I always want to be present, alongside clojure.tools.trace for debugging and criterium for microbenchmarks
10:18	Reefersleep	I hear ya
10:18	Reefersleep	Haven't messed abou with .lein yet, I'll try it now
10:18	afhammad	how do you ensure a lib in checkouts folder gets updated in host?
10:18	luxbock	maybe someone should create a searchable web site for self-contained useful snippets
10:20	luxbock	you could populate it by running a script on a few of the popular utility libraries and inlining any non-core fns
10:26	luxbock	(try (foo x) (catch Exception e nil)) <-- there's nothing like this in the core lib right?
10:27	Reefersleep	justin_smith: what do you put in your .lein/profiles.clj? Just {:user {:dependencies [[alembic "0.3.2"]]} ?
10:27	justin_smith	Reefersleep: that's about it, yeah
10:28	justin_smith	then in a repl (require '[alembic.still :as still]) (still/load-project)
10:28	justin_smith	or (still/distill '[[som.lib "version.whatever"]]) to just try a random lib
10:32	Reefersleep_	justin_smith: Sorry, got thrown off, there. What do you have in your .lein/profiles.clj to enable reloading of dependencies - and how do you reload?
10:32	justin_smith	Reefersleep_: the :user thing in my profiles.clj
10:33	justin_smith	then (require ...) and (still/distill ...) or (still/load-project) as I specified above
10:33	Reefersleep_	Aha. :)
10:33	Reefersleep_	let me try it out.
10:36	luxbock	is there any reason why `keys` shouldn't work on vectors as well? it'd be a bit shorter to type than (range (count v))
10:37	gfredericks	luxbock: I can't think of any
10:39	Reefersleep_	justin_smith: Just (still/load-project) in the REPL after starting it with lein repl inside the project root?
10:39	justin_smith	while you are at it you could extend it to work on sets too
10:39	gfredericks	luxbock: though maybe you could argue that because (seq v) doesn't give you a seq of entries that you could call `key` on...
10:39	justin_smith	Reefersleep_: after requiring alembic.still and adding a new dep to the project.clj, yeah
10:41	Reefersleep_	justin_smith: so: lein repl - (require alembic.still) - (still/reload-project) ?
10:41	justin_smith	(require '[alembic.still :as still]) (still/load-project)
10:41	Reefersleep_	aaah
10:41	Reefersleep_	I suck at dependencies :/
10:42	justin_smith	require is a little weird outside the ns block
10:42	Reefersleep_	Maybe this is the wrong channel to ask questions like these - maybe they belong at #clojure-beginners ?
10:43	justin_smith	Reefersleep_: this channel is fine for beginner questions, #clojure-beginners is handy for when dnolen and Bronsa and puredanger get to discussing compiler internals and people get excited and chatty about that stuff and nobody notices the simple beginner questions
10:43	justin_smith	for example
10:44	Reefersleep_	Thanks a lot, justin_smith, it seems to work. Do you do anything to automagically require the dependency? Like, put it in the .lein/profiles.clj, too?
10:44	Reefersleep_	justin_smith: Cool, I will continue on, then :)
10:45	justin_smith	Reefersleep_: clojure doesn't by default do much "magic" - the opinionated preference is to have explicit require or use to pull things into scope
10:45	justin_smith	that said, there are libs like vinyasa for those who want a bit more automation of ns stuff in their dev environment
10:45	Reefersleep_	Alright. Think I'll write a little ;;note in that .lein/profiles.clj file...
10:50	r4vi	is there a way to auto-partial an entire namespace? if I'm using a api client library which takes oauth-creds as first param to every function; I'm working in the repl and don't want to bother passing them every time is it possible to create a new ns from the foo.client.api -> user.repl.api that replicates each fn in foo.client.api except it's all partials with the first param already supplied?
10:51	justin_smith	r4vi: you could write a macro that does that. the magic function to help with that would be ns-publics
10:52	justin_smith	I would iterate over the map returned by ns-publics, deref each var and check for an ifn, and generate a partial for each ifn, then intern that to another namespace (via intern or def, your choice)
10:52	r4vi	cool - doesn't seem too hard.. thanks
10:52	justin_smith	r4vi: http://conj.io/store/v1/org.clojure/clojure/1.7.0-alpha4/clj/clojure.core/ns-publics/
10:53	gfredericks	probably no reason to have a macro
10:53	justin_smith	in fact, now that I think of it, if you used intern instead of def it wouldn't even need to be a macro
10:53	justin_smith	gfredericks: exactly
10:53	gfredericks	if you're going to be mucking with low-level var/ns functions anyhow
10:53	justin_smith	gfredericks: it would just be def's macro contagion
10:54	r4vi	ok another question (related) what do other people do when working with libs like this?
10:56	justin_smith	r4vi: I usually go ahead and use the oauth-creds arg, to be honest
10:56	r4vi	just do (def creds {username "foo" token "foobarbaz"}) then (api/get creds 123)
10:56	justin_smith	right
10:57	justin_smith	or make a component, where the creds come in as an initialization
10:57	justin_smith	(as in stuartsierra/component, my favorite lib right now0
10:57	justin_smith	)
11:00	Reefersleep_	Does anyone know how to get vim-clojure-highlight to automatically do ClojureHighlightReferences? I think it feels a bit awkward having to do :e after having done cp[movement]
11:00	Reefersleep_	I've tried putting au BufRead *.clj ClojureHighlightReferences in my .vimrc, but no luck. (I'm not good with the au syntax)
11:02	r4vi	justin_smith: reading about it now
11:07	ionthas_	Reefersleep: I have the same problem. I didn't solve it yet.
11:22	Reefersleep_	ionthas_: What have you tried?
11:22	Reefersleep_	Or do you have an idea of where to go?
11:45	Reefersleep_	ionthas_ / justin_smith: Well, I got a first step of the way.
11:46	Reefersleep_	I put this in my .vimrc:
11:46	Reefersleep_	nmap l cpr :ClojureHighlightReferences<CR>
11:46	Reefersleep_	which means that pressing l in normal mode will first do cpr, then :ClojureHighlightReferences
11:46	Reefersleep_	I tried doing nmap cpr cpr :ClojureHighlightReferences<CR>, but no dice :/
11:54	heurist	Reefersleep_: maybe try something horrible like: nnoremap <silent><buffer> cpr :if expand('%:e') ==# 'cljs'<Bar>Require<Bar>else<Bar>RunTests<Bar>endif<CR>:ClojureHighlightReferences<CR>
12:06	Reefersleep_	heurist: cheers :) Doesn't seem to work, though
12:07	Reefersleep_	if I do :nmap after adding your contribution, heurist, it reports:
12:07	Reefersleep_	n cpr *@:if expand('%:e') ==# 'cljs'\|Require\|else\|RunTests\|endif<CR>
12:10	Reefersleep_	So it looks like the ClojureHighlightReferences<CR> part is not added for some reason
12:11	irctc_	How do I open Vim mode in Light Table?? o(一︿一+)o
12:11	heurist	Reefersleep_: did you change buffers after that? the @ in the mapping means is it for that buffer only. Maybe leave the <buffer> part out of the mapping command, or do it in an autocommand.
12:14	justin_smith	irctc_: I think at this point light table should be considered a cool way to dive into clojure for newcomers, but not a good choice as a long term primary editor? I could be wrong about this, but I don't think its very actively developed at this point, and there are not many people using it to do their day to day coding.
12:14	oddcully	l in normal mode?
12:15	heurist	oddcully: right...
12:15	Reefersleep_	heurist: I did :vim ~/.vimrc, edited my stuff, :wq, :vim [path-to-my-.clj-file], then cpr
12:16	Reefersleep_	heurist: tried both with and without <buffer>, no difference
12:16	Reefersleep_	oddcully: I just selected some random key :)
12:16	oddcully	am i missing something or would this not just rob you of moving your cursor around?
12:16	justin_smith	Reefersleep_: you must use the arrow keys like some kind of heathen, huh :)
12:16	Reefersleep_	It would and did and I quickly got rid of it
12:16	justin_smith	ahh
12:16	Reefersleep_	certainly not! :)
12:17	Reefersleep_	There'd be no point in Vim then (for me)
12:17	heurist	Reefersleep_: if you change to a clojure buffer, run that mapping (with the <buffer>) and then do :map cpr what does it say? it should overwrite the current buffer's mapping.
12:21	Reefersleep_	heurist: after switching to a Clojure buffer and doing the mapping and then doing :map cpr, I get n cpr *@:if expand('%:e') ==# 'cljs'\|Require\|else\|RunTests\|endif<CR>:ClojureHighlightReferen ces<CR>
12:21	Reefersleep_	, so it looks good
12:21	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: so in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: so in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6543]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: so in this context"...
12:21	heurist	Reefersleep_: then try something like this in your .vimrc, or in an after file so it overrides fireplace's autocommand: autocmd FileType clojure nnoremap cpr ...
12:21	Reefersleep_	heurist: just what I was about to say
12:22	Reefersleep_	I learned a little today :)
12:22	Reefersleep_	heurist: you mentioned it was horrible, though. Why, exactly?
12:23	heurist	Reefersleep_: most of my "off the top of my head, not trying it out myself" ideas are horrible, there must be a better way to do it. (:
12:23	Reefersleep_	hehehe
12:28	Reefersleep_	heurist: wrestling a bit with the .vimrc autocmd
12:28	Reefersleep_	"autocmd FileType clojure nnoremap cpr ..." does not seem to work
12:28	Reefersleep_	feel like there's a little thing missing
12:31	heurist	Reefersleep_: fireplace is adding another autocmd later, try adding yours to ~/.vim/after/clojure-highlight.vim (check the exact filename, I am guessing).
12:33	Reefersleep_	I don't have a /after inside ~/.vim
12:33	Reefersleep_	*an
12:33	Reefersleep_	heurist :/
12:34	heurist	Reefersleep_: it can
12:34	heurist	Reefersleep_: it can't be that hard to make one (:
12:34	Reefersleep_	well no :) But I have no idea what I'm doing. Is reading the /after folder a part of Vim's base functionality?
12:35	Reefersleep_	From what you first said, I thought it might be something that vim-fireplace had introduced into ~/.vim
12:35	Reefersleep_	or maybe vim-clojure-highlight
12:35	oddcully	you can also go for ~/.vim/after/ftplugin/clojure.vim
12:36	oddcully	this gets executed last for all clojure files
12:36	Reefersleep_	aha
12:36	Reefersleep_	There's so much to keep track of in configuring Vim :/
12:36	oddcully	used this recently to remove `/` from keyword detection after fireplace
12:36	heurist	Reefersleep_: it is standard vim. after loading all your config files and plugins, vim then loads all the files in the after/ directory in the same way. so you will need to put your file in ~/.vim/after/plugin/filename.vim.
12:37	Reefersleep_	cheers oddcully/heurist
12:37	heurist	Reefersleep_: yeah, after/ftplugin sounds like the right place.
12:37	Reefersleep_	what does ftplugin refer to?
12:37	Reefersleep_	trying it out now
12:38	heurist	Reefersleep_: file type plugin they only load for that file type.
12:38	Reefersleep_	aaaaaaaaaah
12:38	oddcully	as in pain or joy?
12:38	Reefersleep_	revelation
12:38	Reefersleep_	^_^
12:38	oddcully	ahh!
12:39	heurist	Reefersleep_: you want "revelation"? try :tab help after replace "after" with whatever you you want to know more about. the vim docs are good.
12:39	oddcully	if you open a file xxx.cljs e.g. and do `set ft` you will see the detected filetype there
12:39	oddcully	i find the way over (after)/ftplugin alot easier to manage than autocmd stuff
12:41	Reefersleep_	heurist: I guess so, I tend to find that they have too much general information for me. Maybe it's harder for me to read docs because English is my second language, or maybe I'm just an impatient reader :/
12:41	heurist	Reefersleep_: oddcully makes a valid point, you can maybe just add the map command to the after/ftplugin instead of adding a autocmd to that file. try both, see which works.
12:41	Reefersleep_	oddcully: I see your point there
12:43	Reefersleep_	heurist/oddcully: well, I tried just adding the command (nnoremap <silent ...), but that doesn't seem to work
12:43	Reefersleep_	adding the autocmd worked. Yay!
12:44	Reefersleep_	I should write a blog post on this :/
12:45	Reefersleep_	oddcully/heurist: So, the result so far is that I have a ~/.vim/after/ftplugin/clojure.vim with the following line: autocmd FileType clojure nnoremap <silent><buffer> cpr :if expand('%:e') ==# 'cljs'<Bar>Require<Bar>else<Bar>RunTests<Bar>endif<CR>:ClojureHighlightReferences<CR>
12:45	Reefersleep_	So the next step would be to make it work for movements other than cpr, such as cpG, for example
12:46	oddcully	i'd say, that you don't need to write autocomd there any more
12:46	heurist	Reefersleep_: I am guessing that the fileplace autocmd is getting in the way, and now your autocmd is killing it. they are probably both still running, you might want to try something like augroup fireplace_require autocmd! youraucmd augroup END to clean that up. or not bother.
12:46	oddcully	at this point it is already clear, that this is a clojure file
12:46	oddcully	just do your nnoremap
12:49	heurist	Reefersleep_: the need to repeat the process for each command is only one of the reasons it was a "horrible solution"
12:49	Reefersleep_	oddcully: the nnoremap alone does not work
12:50	Reefersleep_	heurist: I could try that, but now I noticed a different problem: :ClojureHighlightReferences kills my rainbow_parentheses
12:50	Reefersleep_	all of my parens are one colour now
12:50	Reefersleep_	after doing cpr
12:51	Reefersleep_	I feel like I need cpr
12:51	Reefersleep_	I've spent a whole afternoon trying to configure Vim. Stuff like this makes me reconsider trying Emacs.
12:51	justin_smith	Reefersleep_: what you are doing now is nothing in comparison to upgrading a cider version, in my experience
12:52	Reefersleep_	brain explodes
12:52	heurist	Reefersleep_: /urgh now you add a rainbowToggle (x2) to the command, and so it goes. sounds like you need to write a bug report on the highlight plugin rather then a blog post (:
12:54	Reefersleep_	heurist: I could try that. With stuff like this, I tend to get a bit confused, though - I'm not even sure where I think the bug resides, there are so many intermingling elements. Seems like vim-clojure-highlight would be a good place to start, though.
12:54	heurist	Reefersleep_: I would think about looking for a autocmd hook for "after running a command (cp*)" and have the run your highlight update and rainbow fix. not sure what autocmd rule that would be though, you will need to check the docs or ask in #vim
12:56	heurist	Reefersleep_: I assume this "dynamic highlight" that you are fighting with? I only the static version.
12:56	Reefersleep_	heurist: Correct on dynamic highlight
12:57	Reefersleep_	Writing it like this in ~/.vim/after/ftplugin/clojure.vim does not work: autocmd FileType clojure nnoremap <silent><buffer> cpr :if expand('%:e') ==# 'cljs'<Bar>Require<Bar>else<Bar>RunTests<Bar>endif<CR>:ClojureHighlightReferences<CR>:RainbowParenthesesToggle<CR>:RainbowParenthesesToggle<CR>
12:57	Reefersleep_	I can't :RainbowParenthesesToggle manually either
12:57	Reefersleep_	rainbows are dead after cpr
12:58	heurist	Reefersleep_: after your "new and improved cpr"? or after normal cpr as well?
12:58	Reefersleep_	:RainbowParenthesesActivate doesn't work either
12:58	Reefersleep_	heurist: I think it's ok with normal cpr
12:58	Reefersleep_	let me just try
12:59	heurist	Reefersleep_: also try see if just doing :ClojureHighlightReferences kills your rainbows.
13:00	Reefersleep_	heurist: :ClojureHighlightReferences is the sinner
13:01	heurist	Reefersleep_: so lots of bug reports for dynamic highlight. check the bug tracker to see if others have had the same experience and if they have found workarounds or solutions. (for both problems)
13:02	Reefersleep_	I will, cheers heurist
13:04	Reefersleep_	heurist: I think I've mislead you, the plugin I've been trying to get to work is vim-clojure-highlight
13:05	Reefersleep_	and one guy had a similar problem (though with the niji parens plugin)
13:08	heurist	Reefersleep_: when originally looking at the assortment of rainbow plugins I did notice that they where mostly 90% the same code, so it does not surprise me that that same issue happen with more than one of them. I can mot comment on vim-clojure-highlight though.
13:17	Reefersleep_	heurist: what is the dynamic highlighting, you were talking about?
13:17	Reefersleep_	-,
13:19	heurist	Reefersleep_: I think it was the plugin you referred to, that was just to distinguish it from https://github.com/guns/vim-clojure-static
13:21	Reefersleep_	heurist: My initial assumption was correct, then :)
13:21	Reefersleep_	(that you were indeed talking about vim-clojure-highlight)
13:22	Reefersleep_	heurist: this confuses me, though. You wrote: "so lots of bug reports for dynamic highlight." Where did you see this?
13:22	heurist	Reefersleep_: you need to write them. you found the bugs.
13:23	Reefersleep_	Ah, I thought you found an existing list of them :)
13:24	Reefersleep_	heurist: Alright, I'll get to work.
13:24	Reefersleep_	heurist: I've got other problems, too, like weird indentation after gg=G'ing
13:24	Reefersleep_	heurist: No matter what I do, I cannot get sane indentation in a clojure file with a number of nested forms
13:25	Reefersleep_	heurist: But maybe this is a problem for another day. Do you know if it's a common problem, though?
13:25	heurist	Reefersleep_: is that with vim-clojure-highlight? I have not had issues with indenting.
13:26	Reefersleep_	That was before vim-clojure-highlight
13:27	Reefersleep_	I've tried with an empty .vimrc, I've tried disabling every indentation-related line in my .vimrc one by one
13:27	Reefersleep_	heurist: Sometimes, wrongful indentation at one place will be fixed, only to be replaced by wrongful indentation at a different point in the file.
13:28	Reefersleep_	heurist: When talking about disabling lines in my .vimrc, that includes plugins such as vim-fireplace
13:30	Reefersleep_	It's so weird. And very, very annoying. :(
13:32	jbwiv	hello, posted this on #clojure-beginners with no luck, so thought it was worth asking here...
13:32	jbwiv	what's the best, most current book from which to learn clojure for an experienced developer with only slight lisp experience? So slick that by experience, I really mean reading this (http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html) :-)
13:33	url-	10:32 *** tomphp QUIT Client Quit
13:33	url-	Reefersleep_: You can try my vim setup if you want. https://github.com/earle/vimrc
13:33	url-	Reefersleep_: may be a good time to switch to emacs though :)
13:35	Reefersleep_	url-: I'm tempted :) justin_smith said that there are similar problems in Emacs, though.
13:37	Reefersleep_	url- can I get you to try and touch a .clj with the code I've written and do gg=G, and see if it looks correct?
13:37	Reefersleep_	heurist: same question
13:37	oddcully	Reefersleep_: make a gist,refheap,...
13:39	Reefersleep_	oddcully: here you go
13:39	Reefersleep_	https://gist.github.com/Reefersleep/b1b2b35eacec6e7a33c6
13:40	Reefersleep_	I'm sure the code is horribly unidiomatic :)
13:40	Reefersleep_	Been wanting to clean it up.
13:42	oddcully	Reefersleep_: breaks the same for me. my guess would be the \[
13:43	Reefersleep_	oddcully: I had the same suspicion and changed the [ to .
13:43	Reefersleep_	oddcully: no difference
13:44	oddcully	hmm no. it just falls appart
13:44	Reefersleep_	oddcully: With a different combination of plugins, don't know exactly which, \[ did indeed break the indentation, but here, it seems like it just gives up
13:44	Reefersleep_	Maybe it's telling me to write smaller functions
13:44	Reefersleep_	:)
13:45	Reefersleep_	Alright, amazing to find that it was just not my unique setup that caused this.
13:45	Reefersleep_	oddcully: I guess now we figure out what exactly controls the indentation for our setups and report a bug to the rightful maintainer?
13:47	mikerod	I was trying to setup a large set of tests to run on multithreads to improve their runtime performance. This was looking pretty optimistic without huge changes, until I realized we had some usages of with-redefs out there.
13:47	mikerod	so to accomplish this sort of testing, we'd have to do some overhaul in those cases where we wanted something like a mock (not very common, but it does come up from time to time).
13:48	mikerod	I was curious if others had ran into this before.
13:48	mikerod	It'd be nice to have something like a with-redefs that locked access to the var.
13:48	mikerod	I guess that could be implemented
13:48	oddcully	Reefersleep_: i killed the first two cond statements and then it looked ok
13:48	mikerod	I just found this to be of interest
13:49	Reefersleep_	oddcully: I'm seeing the same
13:49	mikerod	I know with-redefs isn't a good idea, but in testing I think it may be somewhat common. and its usage can lead to unsafe multithreading, which sucks when you could speed up testing quite a bit over like 8 cores.
13:50	mikerod	and separate JVMs is a much higher bar to shoot for
13:50	oddcully	Reefersleep_: only removing one of the two looks ok except the :else branch
13:50	Reefersleep_	oddcully: let's zoom in. Seems like it's either the number of cond statements or the nesting in the same
13:51	heurist	Reefersleep_: I am not at a machine that can test your code. But, since oddcully appears to get the same formatting there is not much point. Learning emacs is a good idea anyway though, even if you do not end up using it much, better than having to learn ed, but knowing a bit of ed is good too, saved me a few times. (:
13:51	opqdonut	mikerod: how about binding?
13:51	opqdonut	mikerod: and have all your multithreading use binding-conveyor-fn
13:51	mikerod	opqdonut: yes, that'd work if you setup your vars to be dynamic
13:51	opqdonut	yeah having them dynamic is a bit of a performance hit
13:52	mikerod	which is probably not desired
13:52	mikerod	perf hit + a semantics change in the real code to facilitate a tests
13:52	mikerod	test*
13:52	mikerod	I tend to not desire that
13:52	mikerod	I'd rather just have a big locking mock
13:52	mikerod	so if two threads hit that mock at one point, they can just block
13:52	opqdonut	you can just do (locking var ...) I guess
13:52	justin_smith	mikerod: my preference is the pattern of abstracting things that interact with the "outside world" such that they are explicit args, that can be replaced while running tests. Their default provision can be part of a thin wrapper.
13:53	mikerod	due to our infrequent use of mocking, I think it'd be mostly unblocked threads still
13:53	opqdonut	yeah, injecting is the standard option
13:53	Reefersleep_	heurist: I guess I'll get around to emacs sometime - the lure of rewriting the editor in a lisp is great :)
13:53	oddcully	Reefersleep_: could be just length. removing something from the middle fixes one later block
13:53	mikerod	justin_smith: yes, I agree. using with-redefs is a pretty rare thing
13:53	Reefersleep_	oddcully: seems to me like it's the number of statements
13:53	mikerod	but we had one point of interacction that many tests may be interested in - and with-redefs breaks them from being threadsafe
13:53	sorbo_	I feel like I'm just about ready to switch from Vim -> emacs + evil mode
13:53	mikerod	one or two*
13:54	heurist	Reefersleep_: every time I have to look I vimscript I weep.
13:54	Reefersleep_	oddcully: Not the depth of nesting - try to remove depth from one of the statements, it makes no difference.
13:55	oddcully	Reefersleep_: 8 on the same level?
13:55	heurist	sorbo_: emacs + evil is not bad to work in, possibly better than vim itself; emacs is just to slow though.
13:56	justin_smith	heurist: depends on what you are trying to make emacs do, eg. it's much faster without cider. Root is that emacs is single threaded, and cider asks for it to do a bunch of background work.
13:56	Reefersleep_	heurist: I feel a bit flustered about this whole afternoon, for sure. Not because of vimscript, though.
13:56	justin_smith	heurist: for example, on my machine emacs is snappy, for coworkers it has a painfully slow refresh rate.
13:56	Reefersleep_	oddcully: I thought so, but if I remove depth from a number of them, they are indented correctly
13:56	sorbo_	heurist: slow how? I remember reading some anecdotal stuff on its requiring more system resources
13:57	sorbo_	yeah, I was thinking skipping cider at first
13:57	sorbo_	plus I mean
13:57	justin_smith	sorbo_: it's not emacs core that is doing it, it's bad elisp code.
13:57	sorbo_	I'm used to lein and JVM start times
13:57	sorbo_	so my definition of slow has changed over time :)
13:57	justin_smith	haha
13:57	heurist	justin_smith: mainly startup time. as a sysadmin I very often start an editor, make a small change and exit again, I can do all this in vim faster then many of the overworked servers can start emacs (:
13:58	justin_smith	heurist: emacs has a server mode, where instead of starting a new process you can connect to a running instance
13:58	justin_smith	this even works when you ssh in, even if hte emacs was a GUI instance
13:58	xemdetia	heurist, or you can use tramp from a continious session
13:58	sorbo_	oh nice
13:58	xemdetia	tramp is nice because you can view files as buffers from multiple servers and ediff them or whatever is necessary
13:59	justin_smith	the server can give you a UI within your terminal, or in a new window, but it's part of the running emacs. But admitted, I am just using vi for quick editing tasks (especially ones where I need to edit as root)
13:59	Reefersleep_	oddcully: I tried removing the depth from all but the :else statement
13:59	Reefersleep_	oddcully: Indentation is correct
13:59	heurist	justin_smith: sure, but server mode does not help when sshing into a server making a quick change and then leaving. If I was doing long term programming more then I would use server mode and might not care as much. but sadly that is not my life :)
14:00	justin_smith	heurist: you can use tramp, from the emacs on your home box
14:01	justin_smith	heurist: but sometimes emacs is just too much, even just for startup time reasons, sure.
14:01	Reefersleep_	oddcully: I succeeded in breaking it a different way
14:02	Reefersleep_	oddcully: git coming
14:02	Reefersleep_	*gist
14:02	heurist	justin_smith: might be true (will look at tramp) but I do not have the ability to install stuff on some of the server I work on, so I will probably stay with vi or ed.
14:02	justin_smith	heurist: tramp uses sh, ed, cat
14:02	justin_smith	hopefully you have those things installed
14:02	Reefersleep_	oddcully: https://gist.github.com/Reefersleep/d0ed08a3f2915db25138
14:02	justin_smith	maybe it is sed rather than ed? I forget
14:03	oddcully	Reefersleep_: i tried a (cond) with several simple statements, but not as many
14:03	heurist	justin_smith: cool, thanks. though I am a old-time vim user, so it will be hard to justify the change (:
14:03	justin_smith	heurist: every time you open a file via tramp it ensures you have an ssh to that host, opening a file invokes cat, saving changes invokes cat, or ed
14:03	justin_smith	so the remote host just thinks you are doing it cave man style :)
14:04	heurist	justin_smith: been there, done it cave-man-style.
14:04	oddcully	Reefersleep_: at least the later one would make a reasonable example to show the problem
14:05	Reefersleep_	oddcully: I feel more empowered now after having identified the problem as not unique to me and after having shown it in two different situations :) But how do we figure out where the bug should be filed?
14:05	justin_smith	heurist: I don't have much to gain by trying to convince you to use emacs in this situation, but at least you now know it's possible without any special remote install
14:06	oddcully	Reefersleep_: i'd check if the clojure files comes with plain vim (i'd guess so) and report it there
14:06	Reefersleep_	I think they do
14:06	Reefersleep_	I read that vim-clojure-static is included in vim
14:07	Reefersleep_	if that's what we're discussing :)
14:07	oddcully	Reefersleep_: i have my doubt's that a plugin messes it up - maybe fireplace by fiddling with the keywords. that i'd make sure first
14:07	xemdetia	heurist, when I use tramp I connect to limited servers or servers I don't have tooling on so I can bring my tooling to the problem. :)
14:07	heurist	justin_smith: yes, appreciate that. googling tramp now.
14:08	Reefersleep_	oddcully: Oh yeah, thinking back, I think it's actually a plugin. I think I'll get different results with a completely commented out .vimrc
14:08	Reefersleep_	lemme check
14:09	heurist	xemdetia: agreed, except my tooling is vim, I sometimes use its scp editing command :r scp://server/file but not very often.
14:09	oddcully	Reefersleep_: plain vimrc works :*)
14:09	oddcully	Reefersleep_: and it's alot faster
14:09	oddcully	Reefersleep_: do you have paredit?
14:09	xemdetia	heurist, true- I usually don't even have vim. Just plain vi
14:10	heurist	xemdetia: pretty much the same thing for me, been using vi since before vim, though not many systems have vi that is not vim anymore.
14:10	oddcully	Reefersleep_: o well it does not. now main at :else level
14:11	Reefersleep_	oddcully: plain vimrc does not work for me
14:11	justin_smith	heurist: eg. :e /ssh:justin@noisesmith.org:.profile (with evil mode turned on, that is)
14:11	Reefersleep_	super weird stuff happening
14:12	Reefersleep_	the "(defn interpret" line is indented, to begin with
14:12	Reefersleep_	a number of the cond statements are aligned, then a following number of them are a bit further to the left
14:12	heurist	justin_smith: or :e scp://justin@noisesmith.org:.profile in vim if I recall correctly.
14:13	Reefersleep_	I'm talking about the gist with the many shallowly nested forms, here
14:13	oddcully	Reefersleep_: ignore my "it works" the file is just so huge i have to squit really hard to see it falling appart. the problems are way more subtle
14:13	justin_smith	heurist: cool
14:13	Reefersleep_	hehe oddcully
14:13	Reefersleep_	So
14:13	Reefersleep_	oddcullly: bug reports for both Vim and vim-fireplace? :)
14:14	oddcully	i'd start with plain vim with the plain vimrc
14:14	oddcully	(to report to i mean)
14:15	Reefersleep_	yeah
14:15	Reefersleep_	Guess I could then proceed to apply plugins one at a time, see if it makes any difference and, if so, report for each of those?
14:15	oddcully	i'd wait for the feedback first from core
14:16	Reefersleep_	Why? Because the others might be based on it?
14:16	oddcully	that time might be better spend either trying out emacs or refactoring the code ;P
14:16	Reefersleep_	good point! :D
14:16	Reefersleep_	(nobody else ever came upon this problem because nobody got so deep into nested forms)
14:16	oddcully	yes. because core has the first level of a problem
14:17	oddcully	if it alls magically disappears, then fine. if not you can go the next step
14:17	Reefersleep_	cheers oddcully
14:18	Reefersleep_	Alright, got 1 bug report for Vim and 1 for vim-clojure-highlight.
14:20	Reefersleep_	oddcully heurist justin_smith url- (and whomever I might have forgotten): Thanks for your help :)
14:20	oddcully	Reefersleep_: cheers!
14:33	Reefersleep_	ping
14:33	justin_smith	,ping
14:33	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: ping in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ping in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6543]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: ping in this co...
14:33	justin_smith	~ping
14:33	clojurebot	PONG!
14:33	justin_smith	there we go
14:38	dazed_and_amused	\exit
14:48	elarson	I'm curious if anyone has tried out repose (http://openrepose.org/) and has any thoughts on how difficult it would be to write filters in clojure?
14:49	elarson	I'm not a java programmer, but enjoy clojure, so making the link between the two languages is rather opaque
14:53	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	sup nigz
14:54	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	who has drugs
14:54	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	srs
14:55	url-	elarson: You can just run it as a proxy in front of another service. Or you can access the java interfaces directly via Clojure if you like as well.
14:55	url-	elarson: https://repose.atlassian.net/wiki/display/REPOSE/Proxy+Server+%28Valve%29+Installation
14:56	elarson	url-: right, I'm currently using as a proxy for some python apps, but I'm curious about writing a filter in clojure. if that makes sense.
14:57	elarson	my understanding is I'd create a jar and add it to the ear deployed with repose, but I'm not clear the best way to implement whatever interfaces are required
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	[PHP]
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	; About php.ini ;
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	; PHP's initialization file, generally called php.ini, is responsible for
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	; configuring many of the aspects of PHP's behavior.
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	; PHP attempts to find and load this configuration from a number of locations.
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	; The following is a summary of its search order:
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	; 1. SAPI module specific location.
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	; 2. The PHPRC environment variable. (As of PHP 5.2.0)
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	; 3. A number of predefined registry keys on Windows (As of PHP 5.2.0)
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	; 4. Current working directory (except CLI)
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	; 5. The web server's directory (for SAPI modules), or directory of PHP
14:58	xXx_GAY_POO_xXx	; (otherwise in Windows)
15:06	wasamasa	right
15:07	elarson	wasamasa: I'm thinking I could write a plugin that uses clojure rather than xml/xslt for writing filters and do it that way
15:07	wasamasa	elarson: I was refering to the accidental spam
15:08	elarson	wasamasa: ah right :)
15:35	chouser	wasamasa: I think you'd have to find a Java API to hook your Clojure into
15:52	borkdude	what is the boot equivalent of lein repl?
15:52	borkdude	don't tell me it is boot repl
16:09	gfredericks	,(type #=(clojure.lang.PersistentTreeSet/create (1 2 3)))
16:09	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.>
16:09	gfredericks	^ can somebody confirm that this creates a hash set and explain me why the hell?
16:10	chouser	neat!
16:10	Bronsa	i know why
16:11	Bronsa	one sec
16:12	hiredman	because the compiler?
16:12	chouser	I'm thinking it must go through a print/read cycle
16:12	amalloy	gfredericks: the reader reads it as a tree set, but then you evaluate it, and the evaluator probably doesn't expect to see a treeset
16:12	hiredman	yeah to be emitted in the byte code
16:12	hiredman	and the compiler just says "oh, a set is a set"
16:12	Bronsa	yeah
16:12	gfredericks	okay phew
16:12	gfredericks	that's less crazy
16:12	Bronsa	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1460 maybe this
16:13	gfredericks	cool thanks
16:14	Bronsa	I came to the conclusion that embedding in code collections that are not PAM/PHM/PV/PL should be disallowed
16:17	hiredman	ICanBeSerializedToByteCode
16:17	Bronsa	that wouldn't be such a bad idea actually :)
16:18	gfredericks	,(binding [print-dup true] (pr-str (sorted-set 1 2 3)))
16:18	clojurebot	"#=(clojure.lang.PersistentTreeSet/create [1 2 3])"
16:18	gfredericks	,(clojure.lang.PersistentTreeSet/create [1 2 3])
16:18	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to clojure.lang.ISeq"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.ClassCastException\n :message "clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to clojure.lang.ISeq"\n :at [sandbox$eval71 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" -1]}]\n :trace\n [[sandbox$eval71 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" -1]\n [clojure.lang.Compiler eval "Compiler.java" 6792]\n [clojure.lang.Compile...
16:18	gfredericks	^ so what's up with the vector there?
16:19	Bronsa	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1461
16:19	justin_smith	I like that ICanBeSerializedToByteCode reads like a first person statement
16:19	TimMc	THat's how I read it!
16:19	hiredman	vectors are not seqs...
16:19	justin_smith	~hiredman can be serialized to bytecode.
16:19	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
16:19	gfredericks	~Bronsa is a reference for anything weird you find at your repl
16:19	clojurebot	Roger.
16:19	TimMc	I didn't get that it used the I-for-interface convention until you mentioned that. :-P
16:20	amalloy	justin_smith: a first person statement, read in a robot voice
16:20	gfredericks	TimMc: justin_smith: same
16:20	TimMc	~hiredman \|can be\| serialized to bytecode.
16:20	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
16:20	Triclops256	Probably a silly question, but what is the legal standing on publishing a wrapper library around a java library on github with no explicit license.
16:21	Triclops256	Clarification: The java library has no explicit license, I'd like to license with an appropriate open source license
16:22	TimMc	Triclops256: Sounds bad.
16:22	Triclops256	https://github.com/leebyron/mesh is the lib
16:22	justin_smith	Triclops256: you could try submitting a PR that would specify your preferred license?
16:22	hiredman	it doesn't really matter
16:22	amalloy	Triclops256: you certainly can't rerelease their code with a license of your own
16:23	amalloy	but as far as i know you are free to create a wrapper that depends on their code, and give it whatever license you want
16:23	hiredman	the original library cannot be used with out a license, so you wrapper will be useless regardless of the license
16:23	Triclops256	amalloy: I wasn't going to release their code, just a compiled jar in the wrapper
16:24	chouser	gfredericks: yeah, I don't think I get it yet. Manipulating print-method and print-dup doesn't seem to change the behavior of your #=(...) example.
16:24	shaym	when listing a java maven project dependency , does it automatically bring all the dependencies from the pom for that artifact?
16:24	justin_smith	shaym: via lein or boot, yes, deps are transitive
16:24	amalloy	chouser: i don't think it goes through print/read, it's just that the compiler sees a set, and emits the same code as if it saw #{1 2 3}
16:25	amalloy	because it's just like (cond (set? x) (emit-set x) (map? x) (emit-map x) ...)
16:25	shaym	i keep getting classnotfound exceptions when trying to start JPA from the clojure REPL
16:25	justin_smith	shaym: is JPA something where there are multiple implementations, and you need to explicitly provide at least one?
16:26	shaym	justin_smith, i did add the hibernate impl , and tested the same deps and code in java
16:26	TimMc	chouser: (class #=(java.util.ArrayList.)) ;; clojure.lang.PersistentVector
16:26	justin_smith	shaym: odd!
16:26	TimMc	This is great.
16:26	shaym	justin_smith, sec ill pastebin the 4 lines
16:27	hiredman	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L3094
16:27	hiredman	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L6533-L6534
16:28	shaym	justin_smith, http://pastebin.test.redhat.com/286133
16:28	chouser	hiredman: nice
16:28	justin_smith	shaym: it's saying not available
16:28	chouser	so we should get the same results from macros, since they expand before analysis, right?
16:29	chouser	Indeed.
16:29	Bronsa	chouser yup
16:29	chouser	(defmacro z [] (sorted-set 1 2 3)) (type (z)) ;=> clojure.lang.PersistentHashSet
16:29	chouser	That seems even easier to trip over than #=(...)
16:29	hiredman	it is actually sort of complicated I think, because emitValue(s) special cases hashsets (but not other kinds of sets) but I am not sure where analysis or emitValue would end up determining the behaviour
16:29	Bronsa	i wasted hours on that
16:30	shaym	justin_smith, oops here is the right one http://pastebin.com/Yr15wMYA
16:30	hiredman	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L4706
16:31	shaym	justin_smith, and to make things interesting when i use the LT repl it reports a different class as missing
16:31	Bronsa	hiredman: IIRC it depends whether it's a constnat set or not
16:31	chouser	Man, the compiler wants protocols!
16:32	TimMc	hiredman: Huh, I don't see how my example of java.util.ArrayList => PV happens...
16:33	justin_smith	shaym: is this applicable? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9134436/how-can-i-resolve-java-lang-classnotfoundexception-org-hibernate-util-dtdentity
16:33	hiredman	that actually may be a print dup thing
16:33	Bronsa	TimMc: that returns an ArrayList for me
16:33	justin_smith	shaym: I suspect if you looked at "lein deps :tree" you would see a different set of versions than you expect somewhere
16:34	chouser	TimMc: must be a different path
16:34	chouser	(defmacro z [] (java.util.ArrayList. [1 2 3])) (type (z)) ;=> java.util.ArrayList
16:34	hiredman	at one point there was some code committed to master that changed some java collections to print as their clojure counter parts
16:34	shaym	justin_smith, definitely looks plausible trying it out now
16:34	Bronsa	they still do
16:34	hiredman	but I believe that was removed/disabled
16:34	Bronsa	,(java.util.ArrayList.)
16:34	clojurebot	[]
16:34	hiredman	(or not)
16:35	hiredman	so that is almost certainly a print-dup thing
16:35	Bronsa	TimMc: are you using lein repl?
16:35	chouser	In 1.7.0-beta2 I'm getting an ArrayList
16:35	Bronsa	me too chouser
16:36	hiredman	,clojure-version
16:36	clojurebot	{:major 1, :minor 7, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master", :interim true}
16:36	TimMc	Interesting.
16:36	Bronsa	,(class #=(java.util.ArrayList.))
16:36	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.>
16:36	TimMc	But I'm not printing it, I'm passing it straight to class.
16:36	Bronsa	,(defmacro x [] (java.util.ArrayList.))
16:36	clojurebot	#'sandbox/x
16:36	Bronsa	,(class (x))
16:36	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false."\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError\n :message nil\n :at [sun.reflect.NativeConstructorAccessorImpl newInstance0 "NativeConstructorAccessorImpl.java" -2]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false."\n :at [clojure.lang.Util runtimeException "Util....
16:36	Bronsa	oh come on
16:36	chouser	,(binding [print-dup true] (prn (java.util.ArrayList.)))
16:36	clojurebot	#=(java.util.ArrayList. [])\n
16:36	Bronsa	,(macroexpand-1 '(x))
16:36	clojurebot	[]
16:36	TimMc	(class #=(java.util.ArrayList.)) ;;= clojure.lang.PersistentVector
16:37	Bronsa	,(class *1)
16:37	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Var$Unbound
16:37	TimMc	^ No printing involved.
16:37	hiredman	the compiler uses eval reader and prn-dup for some things
16:37	shaym	justin_smith, it does look better , i guess the fact that LT was reporting totally different class exceptions was throwing me off
16:37	Bronsa	TimMc: printing/reading is happening during loading
16:37	Bronsa	,(class (macroexpand-1 '(x)))
16:37	clojurebot	java.util.ArrayList
16:37	chouser	TimMc: What version of Clojure is that? I'm getting different results.
16:37	hiredman	TimMc: reader returns a clojure list containing an arraylist, which then has to be compiled to bytecode before execution
16:38	hiredman	which means everything has to be serialized to bytecode
16:38	TimMc	chouser: 1.6.0
16:38	hiredman	the compiler lacking any special casing rules will serialize unknown objects to bytecode using pr and deserialize at runtime using read-string
16:39	hiredman	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L4733-L4758
16:41	Bronsa	the issue is that print-dup either doesn't work for some collections or just emits regular colls
16:41	hiredman	(which would matter if say ArrayList was printing as [] for whatever reason)
16:42	hiredman	actually it calls plain pr I think, no print-dup
16:42	TimMc	Fascinating. That kind of makes sense.
16:42	irctc	Trying to use lein :prep-tasks to first compile a single java file, then a single Clojure ns, then the rest of the Java files, then the rest of the Clojure files.
16:42	irctc	:prep-tasks [ ["javac" "com/xyz/prj/MyClass.java"] ["compile" "my-ns.blah"] "javac" "compile" ]
16:42	chouser	wow, I have so many different clojure jars in my .m2 :-P
16:43	irctc	But get javac: file not found: com/xyz/prj/MyClass.java
16:43	justin_smith	irctc: is com under a subdir?
16:43	TimMc	hiredman: That would explain this: (class #=(java.lang.Object.)) ;;= clojure.lang.Symbol
16:43	irctc	It's as if :java-source-paths ["src/main/java"] is not being used as the root.
16:43	chouser	(class #=(java.util.ArrayList.)) gives me ArrayList on Clojure 1.6.0
16:43	Bronsa	TimMc: wtf is that
16:44	Bronsa	TimMc: you have something behaving weird. that has never ever worked in regular clojure
16:44	chouser	"Can't embed object in code, maybe print-dup not defined: java.lang.Object@2de186d9"
16:44	hiredman	TimMc: you have some library loaded that is screwing with printing
16:44	Bronsa	TimMc: what are you using as your repl? I feel like nrepl or something changes the way your repl prints/reads stuff
16:45	irctc	justin_smith: running lein from project root. Call it / and the Java is in /src/main/java
16:45	TimMc	hahaha, I'll check
16:46	hiredman	,clojure-version
16:46	Bronsa	hiredman: I confess I never really understood the difference between pr and pr-dup, where does it matter?
16:46	clojurebot	{:major 1, :minor 7, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master", :interim true}
16:46	chouser	Bronsa: print-dup tries harder to maintain object type
16:46	chouser	...though after this discussion I wonder if it succeeds
16:46	hiredman	Bronsa: I dunno, all I understand is you should only use print-dup if you want everything to break all the time
16:47	chouser	,(binding [print-dup true] (prn (sorted-set 1 2 3)))
16:47	clojurebot	#=(clojure.lang.PersistentTreeSet/create [1 2 3])\n
16:47	chouser	,(prn (sorted-set 1 2 3))
16:47	clojurebot	#{1 2 3}\n
16:48	hiredman	but of course that create method doesn't exist
16:48	sandbags	i'd be interested to know if there's anyone here who has successfully used the :processable? decision point in Liberator?
16:48	Bronsa	so it's either "print in a way that doesn't work" or "print in a way that doesn't preserve type info"? :)
16:48	irctc	justin_smith: Yes, from the project root the location of com/xyz/... is under /src/main/java full path= /src/main/java/com/xyz/prj/MyClass.java
16:49	hiredman	right
16:49	hiredman	types are dumb anyway, right?
16:49	justin_smith	irctc: I think javac wants a path, not a classpath relative location - try specifying that full path instead?
16:50	TimMc	WTF, cannot reproduce.
16:51	justin_smith	irctc: alternatively, what do you specify as your :java-source-paths option?
16:51	Bronsa	I feel like both the compiler and print-dup must have written with the idea that there would be no c.l.IPersistent* colls outside those in c.l itself
16:51	Bronsa	but even then..
16:51	justin_smith	irctc: I think setting that properly would be the right thing
16:51	irctc	justin_smtih: rce-paths ["src/main/java"]
16:52	irctc	justin:smith: :java-source-paths ["src/main/java"]
16:53	hiredman	the most powerful thing to do for the ICanBeSerializedToByteCode interface would be for it to have a serialize method that basically had the entire compiler exposed to it
16:53	hiredman	but then there would be 3rd party collections that depend on the guts of the compiler, and that'll turn out great
16:53	TimMc	Nonsense, who ever heard of such power?
16:54	hiredman	and even with that, serializing as we all know is not something one does simply
16:54	irctc	justin_smith: putting the full path doesn't compile the class. No .class generated.
16:54	Bronsa	hiredman: I really don't think there would be any issues with whitelisting what can be embedded
16:55	hiredman	and just exploding otherwise?
16:55	Bronsa	at the class level rather than at the interface level
16:55	Bronsa	hiredman: sure, why not
16:55	hiredman	dunno
16:55	Bronsa	i'd rather have clojure tell me "you can't embedd this sorted map in code" than assuming i'm fine with a normal map and exploding my app at runtime
16:56	chouser	or succeeding at write time and failing at read time
16:56	Bronsa	(sorted-maps can't be embedded ever, because of comparator-fn btw)
16:56	chouser	right, only the default comparator-fn
16:57	chouser	oh. maybe not even that?
16:57	Bronsa	there are obviously classes that can be converted to a normal clojure coll no problem like subvecs/map-nodes
16:57	irctc	justin_smith: the output is a compilation error that different Java class can't find a AOT class (my-ns.blah) that should have been created in the 2nd step in prep-tasks ["compile" "my-ns.blah"]
16:58	Bronsa	well, those actually must be.
16:59	irctc	justin_smith: ... when entering the full path (i.e. src/main/java/com/xyz/prj/MyClass.java)
16:59	Bronsa	chouser not with the current impl, no
16:59	irctc	justin_smtih: perhaps boot is the answer.
17:00	Bronsa	chouser would be trickier for sorted-sets than for sorted-maps since they comparator is hidden in the underlying sorted-map
17:01	Bronsa	oh the comparator is a public field
17:01	Bronsa	,(.comparator (sorted-map-by >))
17:02	clojurebot	#object[clojure.core$_GT_ 0x3d24069e "clojure.core$_GT_@3d24069e"]
17:07	ionthas_	Is there any point into using concurrency if the target machine only has one core?
17:07	ionthas_	when I say point i mean benefit.
17:07	ionthas_	(performance wise)
17:08	justin_smith	ionthas_: code that is more readable because it isn't all fragmented into callbacks
17:08	justin_smith	performance wise? none
17:08	justin_smith	though concurrency makes it easier to write code that is responsive, it can't do anything on a single processor that other code could not
17:09	ionthas_	thanks justin_smit :)
17:12	Triclops256	Alright, so, I have a jar file which is not on maven central that I want to distribute with my clojure project. How do I 1.) include it with the jar deployed to clojars [currently it's in my resources folder] and 2.) allow the clojure code to load it into the classpath?
17:12	Triclops256	Also, I should mention, the jar does allow redistribution
17:15	TimMc	Bronsa, hiredman: I can't reproduce it! That is quite upsetting.
17:16	TimMc	I put all my dependencies back and the behavior has disappeared.
17:18	url-	cd
17:18	justin_smith	ls
17:18	lazybot	lib lost+found media opt run
17:20	irctc	justin_smith: got the Java/Clojure stuff working manually. First compile Java by hand, then lein compile, fails the first time because lein is creating a subdir under target called target\base+system+user+dev\classes move the java .class file to the new dir and run lein compile again. Yuck!
17:44	amalloy	justin_smith: i don't think that's true. single-core machines can benefit from concurrency, by having multiple threads blocking on IO while one does cpu work
18:23	TimMc	Triclops256: The jar should really be deployed to repository somewhere. You don't want to include it in your project.
18:33	justin_smith	amalloy: my thought was that there would always be an equivalent single threaded program that has what would effectively be unrolled coroutines.
18:33	justin_smith	I guess we could argue semantics about whether that is concurrency
18:34	amalloy	and about whether that is a program anyone who is not insane or a node.js programmer would actually write
18:37	spieden	anyone aware of companies hiring remote clojure devs? i'm checking out sonian and datastax so far
18:43	kwladyka	is it easy to get hosting with datomic with good price?
18:43	kwladyka	i am thinking about which database should i use
18:43	kwladyka	always i used only MySQL
18:44	drojas_	anyone knows any way to use core.match with hashsets?
18:44	kwladyka	i need database for web applications
18:44	drojas_	kwladyka: I'd suggest you to look at graph databases, but the best choice depends on what is your project about
18:45	drojas_	neo4j is a good start for graph databases btw
18:45	ed-g	kwladyka, for what its worth I'm really happy with Postgres + Yesql.
18:46	kwladyka	but what with hosting later? Is it easy to run Clojure + something else then Postres or mysql? (with good price)
18:47	ed-g	I was shopping around for hosted databases and compose.io seemed good
18:47	ed-g	check clojure-toolbox.com for all kinds of database libraries
18:47	lvh	kwladyka: it's just as hard as it is running with any other language
18:48	lvh	kwladyka: managing databases is nontrivial, so if you don't want to do it you should pay someone to
18:48	lvh	kwladyka: Amazon has RDS, Rackspace has Cloud Databases, ObjectRocket has MongoDB, Heroku has managed Postgres...
18:50	kwladyka	i am thinking about solution similar to heroku, but i didnt have any ocasion to use something like this before. I don't want care about server, but from other hand i am afraid of cost solutions like Heroku.
18:51	lvh	kwladyka: Can't have your cake and eat it; either it's your problem or someone else's.
18:51	lvh	(hint: if unsure, the correct answer is "someone else's"
18:52	lvh	kwladyka: the other options are cheaper
18:53	lvh	kwladyka: heroku has a free tier; a cheap rackspace db is 40/mo
18:53	kwladyka	as i see heroku and others solutions dont have datomic?
18:54	kwladyka	oh datomic working with other DB...
18:54	kwladyka	ok i know too less about this now :)
18:55	ed-g	kwladyka, it sounds to me like you want to define your budget, and the important properties for your database, and how much time you're willing to spend on maintainance, and how much you want to learn about db administration. then I think it will be easier to make the decision.
18:56	kwladyka	i think the problem is i didnt use other solutions then MySQL and hosting / own servers and i don't really feel how other solutions work
18:57	ed-g	kwladyka, compose.io has free trials, also databaselabs.io (postgres only) so you can try them out. even Amazon RDS has a free trial I think.
18:58	kwladyka	but how solutions like datomic works, because i am a little confuse. Is it storage engine or is use other storage engines?
19:00	kwladyka	as i understand it is interface to use other storage engines
19:04	spieden	kwladyka: yes, datomic lets you pick which storage backend to use with it
19:05	justin_smith	kwladyka: consider the fact that a db like postgres happens to use files on disk
19:05	justin_smith	in a similar way, datomic happens to use postgres
19:05	justin_smith	but it has its own semantics and rules that are not identical to those of postgres
19:06	kwladyka	mmm so at the end: for new projects (small i guess) do you recommend use free datomic or use free solutions like clear Postgres?
19:07	kwladyka	oh datomic free is only for open source
19:08	kwladyka	ok but there is datomic pro starter
19:10	spieden	yes, which i believe is free to use for small commercial deployments. i could be wrong
19:10	tcrayford____	it is, as long as you're accepting that you won't get software updates after 12 months
19:18	kwladyka	tcrayford____, this is a good point! thank you :)
19:18	kwladyka	ok it is time to sleep, goodnight!
20:04	j-pb	do you guys know if anybody has written code to use instaparse as an emitter? I'd be really interesing to get one for free when specifying a parser.
20:27	gfredericks	is anybody else getting a test failure on clojure/master?
20:29	gfredericks	I bet it's a dirty compile issue
20:31	gfredericks	yeah I think that's all it was; false alarm
22:05	justin_smith	the dev who cried test failure
23:58	auxchar	Just wondering, is there a way to make a PersistantList that contains itself?
23:59	justin_smith	auxchar: only via some reference type, or a delay or promise