#clojure – 2015-02-04

2015-02-04

00:00	Lewix	i dont care about the type
00:00	julianleviston	Lewix: in fact they don’t even tell you the abstraction
00:00	Lewix	tell me what it returns in a way that dont confuse
00:00	Lewix	me*
00:00	julianleviston	Lewix: that always depends on who is asking that question.
00:00	Lewix	anyways, thanks guys
00:00	Lewix	I'm off
00:01	julianleviston	Lewix: I guarantee you a 6 year old would have trouble no matter what, because they don’t know what / means… but a math professor proll wouldn’t.
00:01	julianleviston	Lewix: later
01:37	domokato	hi, anyone use neko?
02:30	rpaulo	only 26 days late.
04:04	l3dx	I don't get a repl buffer in cider. This is the case for both jack-in and "lein repl" + attach
04:04	l3dx	suggestions?
04:05	l3dx	can't seem to find any errors
04:07	ordnungswidrig	l3dx: no buffer created? what does the Messages buffer tell you?
04:07	hellofunk	l3dx: do you get any of the other nrepl buffers if you look at your full emacs buffer list?
04:34	l3dx	I get a nrepl-server and a nrepl-connection buffer
04:34	l3dx	https://gist.github.com/tskardal/7ca53cbd58575e9275ef
04:34	l3dx	relevant output from Messages
04:51	ordnungswidrig	l3dx: doesnt' your bufferlist contain a cider-repl ... buffer?
04:52	l3dx	nope
04:53	CookedGr1phon	domokato: yep, there's also a #clojure-android room if you're interested
04:54	domokato	CookedGr1phon: thanks, I found it :)
04:54	l3dx	ordnungswidrig: proof https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/809432/emacs%20buffers.png
04:54	l3dx	:P
04:59	michaelr`	hmm
05:01	ordnungswidrig	hmmm, which version of cider (emacs) and cider-nrepl (clojure) do you use?
05:02	ordnungswidrig	what happens when you invoke `cider-switch-to-repl-buffer` (in core.clj, C-c C-z)?
05:03	cloudsaja	Hi guys. Im using com.stuartsierra.component ... in (start [component] i did (assoc componenet :graph graph). ... My question is, how do I get the :graph from the component after it started ?
05:03	hellofunk	l3dx: i recently had this setup to make it easier to see a proper cider setup: https://github.com/clojure-emacs/example-config up to you if you want to take a look at it, or you can, as i do, just use it as a starting point for your own config
05:04	julianleviston	cloudsaja: um… (:graph component) ?
05:05	cloudsaja	julianleviston .. I know that. but how can i get the component ? Where is stuartsierra.component stores its maps ?
05:05	hellofunk	l3dx: you can look directly inside the nrepl buffers for error messages
05:05	julianleviston	cloudsaja: I don’t follow your question. Apologies. It doesn’t work that way from memory.
05:06	julianleviston	cloudsaja: your system holds the components.
05:08	cloudsaja	julianleviston : Okay... let me reconstruct my question... http://pastebin.com/uLWjCvDH ... in line 17, I associated the newly created graph into my component map.... later, when the database component starts, I want to access to the map but I dont know how to obtain the map in the stuartsiera component.
05:12	julianleviston	cloudsaja: hang a sec I just have to remind myself how component works… it’s been a few months since I’ve used it.
05:13	ordnungswidrig	cloudsaja: your component is a record and after assoc'ing the graph under :graph, you can access it with :graph: (-> (databse config) (start) :graph) give's you the graph
05:16	julianleviston	cloudsaja: ok… so where are you trying to access it from?
05:16	julianleviston	cloudsaja: or did ordnungswidrig’s response fix your issue?
05:16	cloudsaja	from repl
05:17	julianleviston	cloudsaja: ah… ok… so yeah… (-> system :database :graph) assumping your database component is databas?
05:18	julianleviston	*assuming your database is assoc’d on to the system as :databas
05:18	julianleviston	:database * (sigh)
05:19	julianleviston	cloudsaja: does that help / make sense?
05:21	cloudsaja	julianleviston : You are correct... saved my day. Thanks a lot. ordnungswidrig also.. thanks
05:21	julianleviston	cloudsaja: you can always type system at the repl and it’ll show you the map… tis not very conducive to reading, but yeah…
05:22	julianleviston	cloudsaja: I think last time I checked, stuart was interested in improving that but nothing had occurred to him yet.
05:22	cloudsaja	julianleviston : got it
05:22	julianleviston	cloudsaja: maybe prettyprinting it might help
05:22	TEttinger	(inc julianleviston)
05:22	TEttinger	lazybot ded
05:24	julianleviston	cloudsaja: for future reference, context is really useful to have. We didn’t know it was the REPL, or that you’d started your system already, or what the component or system were called. Just FYI.
05:28	cloudsaja	julianleviston : Okay... I will mention the context nextime.
05:40	hejki_	ohai. if I were to make a multiplatform gui client with clojure, should I just go with seesaw or are there other alternatives to consider?
05:45	ordnungswidrig	hejki_: jfx was discussed on the clojureD conference. Seems hot to me.
05:47	hejki_	ordnungswidrig: http://www.bytebucket.org/splendid/jfx ?
05:48	hejki_	googling "clojure jfx" provided results "all around", so it indeed is "hot" :P
05:59	julianleviston	I, for one, welcome our new fervently sardonic overlords.
06:04	zot1	i have a "receive-message" function which blocks, waiting for a message to arrive. is lazy-seq the best way to wrap an infinite number of calls into a sequence?
06:05	julianleviston	zot: how’s about a go block?
06:06	l3dx	hellofunk: thanks, I'll have a look. It used to work fine, but stopped yesterday
06:06	zot	julianleviston: core.async was my other consideration, but i wondered if lazy-seq would actually be simpler for my case
06:07	julianleviston	,(source repeatedly)
06:07	clojurebot	Source not found\n
06:07	julianleviston	zot: looks pretty good to me, why not...
06:08	zot	ahhhh, i forgot about repeatedly. that's even better :)
06:08	julianleviston	zot: sweet :-)
06:08	zot	(inc julianleviston)
06:08	zot	tnx!
06:09	frphank	julianleviston: core.async and lazy-seq don't normally compete
06:09	frphank	one is for I/O
06:09	frphank	the other for computation
06:09	julianleviston	frphank: depends what you’re trying to do I guess ;-)
06:10	frphank	yes, either you have I/O or you do not
06:10	frphank	what's the body of your "repeatedly"?
06:10	julianleviston	frphank: what if you want to compute many things at once? :-)
06:10	zot	for me, (repeatedly (partial recv-message this))
06:10	frphank	hm
06:11	zot	quite trivial
06:11	julianleviston	frphank: or split their functionality into delayed process that happens later? or… etc.
06:11	julianleviston	zot: excellent.
06:11	julianleviston	frphank: but thanks, I’ll keep that in mind.
06:11	frphank	zot: sorry I got confused, you are the one that wants to use repeatedly?
06:11	frphank	zot: recv-message is from what library?
06:11	zot	not, it's my own code in a component wrapping a kafka client
06:12	frphank	ok
06:12	frphank	it probably blocks?
06:12	zot	but needs to be substitutable with in memory and other forms for testing
06:12	julianleviston	frphank: I think he’s got his solution.
06:12	zot	yes it does
06:12	frphank	zot: yeah that's problematic
06:13	frphank	zot: you can't interrupt the thread for starters, or it will do funny things
06:13	julianleviston	frphank: unless receive message is an action, not a channel-like thing… :)
06:13	frphank	julianleviston: it only matters if it blocks or not
06:13	julianleviston	frphank: blocks intentionally or not?
06:13	frphank	zot: CLJ-1119 has a discussion on that
06:14	frphank	julianleviston: what's unintentional blocking??
06:14	julianleviston	frphank: what you think he’s doing?
06:14	julianleviston	frphank: all’s I’m saying is I don’t think we have enough info to make a recommendation about what to do yet.
06:14	frphank	julianleviston: zot said that recv-message blocks and that makes it unsuitable for repeatedly
06:15	zot	so if i understand, you believe that the thread termination may fail when wrapping this call in repeatedly?
06:15	frphank	zot: there are more problems e.g. when the lazy-seq produced gets consumed by more than one reader. the semantics of lazy-seq assume quick realization
06:15	zot	(to be clear, it blocks via Thread/sleep, spinning on an atom)
06:16	frphank	zot: no the thread will terminate properly, but it will end the production of the sequence. you won't be able to restart it later. it's basically a mutation which is a no-no
06:17	julianleviston	frphank: it does sound like core async is a better fit.
06:17	frphank	yeah
06:17	zot	in my case, that's acceptable; this variation is strictly test code, with only a single reader. core.async might be a better fit though; but the first half was already written, so i was hoping for a trivial wrapper, a la repeatedly.
06:18	frphank	zot: in that case you might get away with it
06:18	zot	testing shortly to find out :)
07:02	rksm	Hello! I'm trying to POSTing solutions to the 4clojure server, to www.4clojure.com/rest/problem/:id as specified in https://github.com/4clojure/4clojure/blob/develop/src/foreclojure/problems.clj
07:02	rksm	All I get back is {"failingTest":0,"message":"","error":null,"golfScore":"","golfChart":""}
07:02	rksm	Any idea?
07:07	justin_smith	rksm: have you tried it with curl?
07:07	rksm	Well with clj-http-lite and node.js, will give curl a try...
07:07	NewToClj	hi there, i'm new to clojure and having some problems creating a first toy project with lein, where i fail to depend on a library, can anyone help me with that?
07:09	hyPiRion	NewToClj: Sure thing
07:09	NewToClj	the library i'm trying to include is : https://github.com/adamwynne/twitter-api I have included there version in my project.clj but when i load up : lein repl I get an error
07:10	justin_smith	"an error"
07:10	hyPiRion	NewToClj: could you post the project.clj to a pastebin, just so I could see?
07:10	hyPiRion	we*
07:10	NewToClj	yes the error is: Unable to resolve symbol: make-oauth-creds , which is a symvol'/function of the lib
07:11	NewToClj	how can i check if the dependencies resolved correctly?
07:11	justin_smith	NewToClj: did you use require or use to load the dep?
07:11	NewToClj	justin_smith: (require 'tweedels-clj.core)
07:11	hyPiRion	NewToClj: If you managed to get into the repl itself, there should be no issues with the dependency handling.
07:11	justin_smith	NewToClj: if you do it that way, try tweedels-clj.core/make-oauth-creds
07:12	justin_smith	NewToClj: likely you want an :as in your require so you don't have to spell all that out
07:17	NewToClj	I listed project and the source file, nothing fancy, thats why im wondering what im doing wrong...
07:18	justin_smith	NewToClj: on line 14 you refer to a function that is not mapped to your ns
07:18	NewToClj	right so : make-oauth-creds should come from twitter.oath
07:18	justin_smith	NewToClj: change it to tiwtter.outh/make-oauth-creds or add an :as clause to the require and mutatis mutandis
07:19	NewToClj	justin_smith: but isn't the equire for this?
07:19	justin_smith	NewToClj: no
07:19	NewToClj	justin_smith: ah i see...
07:19	justin_smith	NewToClj: require makes it available, it does not map it directly to your namespace
07:19	hyPiRion	NewToClj: You don't import them to the namespace, but if you want to do that you could do (:require [twitter.oauth :refer :all])
07:19	hyPiRion	It's generally not recommended though
07:20	justin_smith	or :refer [make-oauth-creds] even :)
07:20	NewToClj	ahh I see because of namespace shadowing, hm ok
07:20	justin_smith	NewToClj: not just shadowing - it makes editing things later much much easier when it's clear where things came from
07:20	justin_smith	NewToClj: or even reading the code
07:29	ro_st	i know that i can have either an action or a timeout occur within <timeout> time with core.async. how do i ensure that something happens only after <timeout> time after the last of any number of input messages - e.g. only issue a network request once the user stops typing for 1000ms ?
07:30	ro_st	is this possible with core.async, or should i use setTimeout/clearTimeout? this is in cljs, obviously
07:30	justin_smith	ro_st: sounds like you want debouncing
07:30	ro_st	ah, is THAT what debouncing is :-)
07:31	ro_st	https://gist.github.com/scttnlsn/9744501 ?
07:31	julianleviston	ro_st: I thought debouncing was stopping two requests registering when you only pressed once! :)
07:31	justin_smith	ro_st: general idea is you have a timer, every action of the user restarts the timer from 0, when the timer finally hits the end, then you do your thing
07:31	julianleviston	justin_smith: handy!
07:31	justin_smith	julianleviston: same concept
07:31	NewToClj	justin_smith: thanks that helped now i'm a step further!
07:31	justin_smith	julianleviston: it comes from hardware / hardware switches
07:32	julianleviston	justin_smith: yeah, I knew it from keyboards.
07:32	justin_smith	julianleviston: in the hardware switch you would have a capacitor that needs to charge up, and any bounce / jiggle gets subsumed
07:32	ro_st	the gist link i pasted seems to do exactly that
07:32	justin_smith	julianleviston: same idea, different domain :) instead of capacitors we have timers
07:33	justin_smith	ro_st: yes, that looks like an acceptable version of debounce
07:33	justin_smith	it resets the timer if you get new events within the timout, othwerwise hits the timout and does the timout's thing
07:34	ro_st	thanks justin_smith!
07:34	justin_smith	ro_st: very useful in UI
07:34	justin_smith	ro_st: but that is probably exactly where you are using it
07:34	ro_st	hugely. i'm doing an autocompleter
07:34	julianleviston	justin_smith: I wanted something like this a few days ago...
07:34	julianleviston	justin_smith: I think...
07:35	ro_st	love core.async. literally just wrapped the arg where i pass in the channel
07:35	justin_smith	omg I can't believe I only just now got the 4clojure "fore" -> golf - code-golf pun
07:35	justin_smith	argh
07:35	justin_smith	((juxt inc dec) amalloy)
07:36	ro_st	if your cljs app causes safari/mac to restart your mac, is it a bug or a feature?
07:36	julianleviston	justin_smith: i don’t get it… is it just fore/4 ?
07:37	justin_smith	julianleviston: right, and you shout "fore" before swinging in golf
07:37	ro_st	Fore is what they shout when you might just about to be brained by a golf ball
07:37	julianleviston	justin_smith: haha yep. That’s what I thought.
07:38	julianleviston	ah, I hate these “fill in the blanks” type coding things for learning...
07:38	julianleviston	clojure koans had me slapping my head at once stage...
07:39	julianleviston	they’d be fine if the creators didn’t try to be arcane… and also if they only had one or two acceptable answers, but they’re usually kind of bad.
07:40	julianleviston	4clojure is much better than the koans
07:40	ro_st	did you learn a lot about clojure when trying to figure them out? -zen master-
07:40	michaelr`	what would be a good strategy to use liberator resources in a Componentized app?
07:40	justin_smith	julianleviston: won't they just accept any answer that returns the right result?
07:41	julianleviston	michaelr`: Can you rephrase?
07:41	julianleviston	justin_smith: something like that… which often doesn’t help one learn..
07:41	julianleviston	“What’s 1 + 1” doesn’t really help you understand addition.
07:43	justin_smith	julianleviston: it depends on your model of learning. In practice a combination of immersion and higher level reasoning tend to be most effective.
07:43	justin_smith	julianleviston: and immersion is often just "drilling the rote answers"
07:43	michaelr`	julianleviston: A liberator (defresource) needs to access a database. The database connection is wrapped in a Component. So I wonder what would be a good way to define the resources in such way that they would have a reference to the database dependency component. One way which I've used in the past is to wrap the resource in a handler function which in turn associates the dependencies to the request map which is passed at runtime to
07:43	michaelr`	the resource handler..
07:43	julianleviston	Dave Thomas is a big advocate of exercises… that he calls Kata… but that’s really not what Kata are. Kata are doing solutions that are GOOD solutions over and over as drills.
07:43	justin_smith	though it can also include exposure - frequent reading of others code etc.
07:44	julianleviston	justin_smith: yeah, I think reading is excellent to do… more beginning devs should read more before they try to write, IMHO… study good code.
07:44	julianleviston	justin_smith: (myself included, no doubt)
07:45	rksm	[POST to 4clojure] debugged the emacs plugin that worked. seems that the compojure handler only accepts form data, no json body. so in order to post to /rest/problem/:1 something like
07:45	justin_smith	michaelr`: you could also make the function that creates the resource a partial function, or maybe as a macro that is to onerous
07:45	rksm	(http/post (str "http://www.4clojure.com/rest/problem/" 1)
07:45	rksm	{:form-params {:code "true" :id 1}})
07:45	justin_smith	(partial function taking the db bindings at creation time)
07:45	rksm	is necessary
07:46	justin_smith	rksm: cool, glad you figured it out
07:47	michaelr`	yeah well, i was hoping for some way to create the liberator resources as part of the system (component) lifecycle
07:47	julianleviston	justin_smith: I actually think the best way to learn is to have have a real or very real-like context… if it’s controlled or overseen, by a teacher or mentor, even better…
07:47	michaelr`	instead of passing it at runtime..
07:48	justin_smith	michaelr`: yeah, if it isn't going to change at runtime, why not bind it once
07:48	justin_smith	michaelr`: a similar solution is to use a promise that gets delivered to at init
07:49	justin_smith	"not going to change at runtime" here means that the component system will be restarted if you rebind the db settings, of course
07:53	michaelr`	not sure what you mean.. but sounds a bit hacky. the way I think of it is the (defresource) macro defines a ring handler function. So in order for the code in that function to have a reference to the db connection, the reference either has to be passed to the function as a parameter or it has to be enclosed in the function's scope at definition time..
07:54	michaelr`	in the sense of a closure..
07:54	julianleviston	michaelr`: yeah, but your code can do whatever you like, can’t it?
07:55	michaelr`	sure.. it's all my code :)
07:55	julianleviston	michaelr`: so… can’t you use a function that returns a function?
07:55	michaelr`	yes I can
07:55	julianleviston	michaelr`: I used that a lot in my component code.
07:55	alexyakushev	rksm: you can check how I did it here https://github.com/alexander-yakushev/foreclojure-android/blob/master/src/clojure/org/bytopia/foreclojure/api.clj
07:56	rksm	@alexyakushev cool, thanks!
07:58	justin_smith	michaelr`: yes, I was suggesting that passing the db at creation time would be an option, though "def-foo" macros tend to make this harder to do
07:59	michaelr`	hmm
07:59	justin_smith	michaelr`: of course anything you like can be passed in with the request, but my general rule of thumb is to fix things if they are fixable (this tends to help things like hotspot optimizations)
07:59	justin_smith	the vm can't optimize things that are last-minute paramaterized as nicely
08:00	justin_smith	(or the clj compiler can't compile them to as nice a form, etc.)
08:00	michaelr`	hmm
08:01	michaelr`	thinking of it I
08:03	michaelr`	I'm not sure I understand what you're suggesting me to do :)
08:04	justin_smith	michaelr`: does liberator have a function version of its route thing?
08:05	michaelr`	looking..
08:07	michaelr`	looks like there is some function which I could use
08:08	michaelr`	how would that help?
08:09	justin_smith	if it has a function, you can make a function that, given a db connection (and perhaps other data that would come in from component) would create a set of routes
08:13	michaelr`	hmm
08:13	michaelr`	thanks justin
08:14	michaelr`	i can see a few ways to do that, i'll play with it a bit more to get a better insight
08:14	justin_smith	michaelr`: aha - it has the function called resource
08:14	justin_smith	http://clojure-liberator.github.io/liberator/doc/resource-definition.html
08:14	justin_smith	shown near the bottom of the page there
08:15	justin_smith	you should be able to craft a call to resource that captures the db in the definition
08:16	justin_smith	and (defresource foo ...) is the same as (def foo (resource ...))
08:17	michaelr`	how about referencing the system var and taking the db component from there? ;
08:17	michaelr`	;)
08:17	justin_smith	michaelr`: that may be the more straightforward way to do it, actually
08:18	justin_smith	d'oh
08:18	michaelr`	on the other hand, but on the other i think it ruins the whole concept of components
08:19	michaelr`	i mean, the system then becomes a singleton
08:19	justin_smith	right
08:20	justin_smith	well, parameterizing the resource on the config data solves the singleton issue, at the cost of a slightly less straightforward impl
08:21	michaelr`	I thought of maybe defining the resources within the (start) method of a component
08:21	michaelr`	But then I'd have to create one component for each rest entity or put them all inside one component
08:22	michaelr`	either way looks bad
08:22	justin_smith	michaelr`: what about a hash-map to hold the resources, as created by resource
08:22	justin_smith	michaelr`: then that hash-map can be used by the component that creates the server
08:22	justin_smith	(and the middleware, presumably)
08:23	julianleviston	justin_smith: hey do you know… are xhr’s done on the main js thread in the browser?
08:23	justin_smith	julianleviston: I am actually not sure of that
08:23	hellofunk	julianleviston: they can be synchronous or asynch. if you use cljs-ajax they are asynx
08:23	julianleviston	justin_smith: am I better off not putting too much code in the callback handler of an xhr and actually putting it into a channel instead?
08:24	julianleviston	hellofunk: I’m using the google closure one, I think.
08:24	julianleviston	hellofunk: let me check.
08:24	justin_smith	julianleviston: for cleanliness sake I think putting your logic in a go block rather than a callback tends to work
08:24	hellofunk	julianleviston: haven't used closure directly but cljs-ajax wraps it. if closure exposes synchronous xhr, then i know it is optional. cljs-ajax uses async only.
08:24	michaelr`	julianleviston: either way the callback code would be executed on the main js thread
08:24	julianleviston	justin_smith: I have the part of my code that writes the data it gets into an atom in there...
08:25	julianleviston	justin_smith: I just noticed that part of the code seems to take a while...
08:25	julianleviston	michaelr`: yeah? ok.
08:25	hellofunk	julianleviston: up to you whether you use a callback directly or use core.async as a handler.
08:25	julianleviston	hellofunk: I think it’s async… just curious.
08:26	julianleviston	hellofunk: well I’m doing a bit of both… but it seems to be blocking up the UI…
08:26	julianleviston	hellofunk: I’m probably doing something stupid tho :(
08:26	hellofunk	julianleviston: i'm a big fan of cljs-ajax and the author is quite opinionated about making sure synchronous activity is avoided
08:27	michaelr`	julianleviston: if the ajax is sync then your code would block until the request is finished, if it's async then your code would continue to run and then would be interupted as with a timer when the request calls the callback function
08:27	julianleviston	hellofunk: this is my call… (. xhr (send url (meths method) (transit/write json-writer (walk/stringify-keys data)) (clj->js {"Content-Type" "application/json" "Accept" "application/json"})))
08:28	julianleviston	michaelr`: hm… isn’t ajax async by default?
08:28	julianleviston	michaelr`: how can you have ajax if it’s not async?
08:28	julianleviston	michaelr`: isn’t that what the A stands for?
08:29	hellofunk	julianleviston: the question is about xhr and whether that is sync or async
08:29	julianleviston	hellofunk: it is.
08:29	hejki_	if I were to make a CLI tool using clojure, would there be any additional trickery to eliminate the slowness of JVM start/cleanup apart from drip?
08:29	hellofunk	julianleviston: i mean, xhr can be either. but ajax is typically async xhr
08:29	Glenjamin	node+cljs is an option
08:29	justin_smith	hejki_: jvm is not the bottleneck
08:30	julianleviston	hellofunk: ype
08:30	julianleviston	hellofunk: yep.*
08:30	justin_smith	hejki_: but node+cljs / closure advanced compilation mode do lower the startup time
08:30	hejki_	justin_smith: really, i thought the startup and teardown times are not really fun when you have a cli tool that is constantly used for operations that take up quite short time themselves
08:30	justin_smith	(we don't have an equivalent optimization in jvm clojure)
08:30	justin_smith	hejki_: the jvm starts fast
08:30	justin_smith	hejki_: it is clojure that starts slowly
08:31	hejki_	ok
08:31	hejki_	and can it be made faster? :P
08:31	justin_smith	hejki_: you can avoid this by using cljs, which does not bundle the clojure compiler
08:31	hejki_	but then I lose some features
08:31	justin_smith	and which can be optimized with google closure
08:31	justin_smith	it's true!
08:31	julianleviston	Well I think (let [xhr (XhrIo.)]) that answers my q… Xhrlo is async…apparently?
08:31	justin_smith	hejki_: it's a hard tradeoff
08:31	hejki_	and actually important ones too :P
08:31	julianleviston	i’m pretty sure it’s async… anyway.
08:31	hejki_	clearly :P
08:32	justin_smith	hejki_: drip will not help at all though
08:32	hejki_	ok
08:32	julianleviston	it must just by my code doing some blocked up steff...
08:32	julianleviston	I wonder if I segment it and put it into go blocks if it’s make everything smoother.
08:32	justin_smith	hejki_: you could look at grenchman - one clj process with one set of deps, which runs your clj stuff for you via an ocaml client
08:33	hejki_	justin_smith: thanks for the information, I'll look into other potential alternatives then. the tool is currently written in python, that has decent performance for smaller operations, but it chugs badly on more cpu intensive ones (also, no actual threading)
08:33	justin_smith	hejki_: the limitation there is all usages of grenchman must share the same deps
08:33	justin_smith	also, there are other lisps that are better for fast startup / short tasks (eg. racket scheme)
08:34	julianleviston	(ie instead of (doseq [thing all-the-work-things] (do the work on each)) maybe I should map it all into chans and that might make things smoother. <sigh> I just don’t know.
08:34	hejki_	justin_smith: well, grenchman could preload everything my cli tool uses and the tool just connects to that and runs stuff?
08:34	justin_smith	ocaml is pretty awesome in terms of startup time / low overhead if you might consider an ml, as well
08:34	justin_smith	hejki_: exactly
08:34	julianleviston	justin_smith: or maybe even Piumerta’s COLA!
08:34	justin_smith	hejki_: as long as all uses of grenchman are OK with using the same version of every lib, that will just work
08:35	hejki_	justin_smith: I think that is not going to be a problem. I'll just have to think how the users will migrate their grenchman when the tool has changes in dependencies
08:36	justin_smith	hejki_: yeah, you could probably figure out a managed restart
08:36	hejki_	I can do that with the distribution package manager when new version of the cli tool gets installed
08:37	hejki_	the nrepl could be ran as a service anyhow
08:37	hejki_	justin_smith: thanks for this information. I'll look more deeply into grenchman and perhaps start porting the current tool soonish :)
08:38	justin_smith	hejki_: the other concern of course is to make sure you aren't relying on globals at all
08:38	justin_smith	hejki_: but clojure is very good with helping you with that sort of thing
08:38	hejki_	i think all global states are in filesystem in my case
08:38	justin_smith	hejki_: well, for example you would want no defs in namespaces that would be client specific
08:39	julianleviston	Ok next question… if I do 10 async xhrs… are they all on separate threads each or is that an implementation detail up to the browser?
08:39	justin_smith	but if it's all in files and can be per-execution local, then yeah, great
08:39	hejki_	that might require some redesigning
08:40	justin_smith	hejki_: a nice trick is replacing usage of vars (defs) with a map of bindings passed to your function in which you look things up
08:40	justin_smith	hejki_: suddenly nothing is global any more!
08:41	hejki_	justin_smith: only things currently global in the python tool are db connection and definitions (constants that i do not wish to hardcode)
08:41	justin_smith	what I mean by global is a bit more extensive than what python might mean
08:41	justin_smith	ie. no singletons are allowed
08:42	hejki_	hmm.. I do have user configurations that are 'singletons' (read: python package globals)
08:42	hejki_	can't I bind them somehow?
08:42	justin_smith	pass them in a map to your executing function
08:42	justin_smith	and it can forward them down the call chain as needed
08:43	hejki_	hmm.. maybe I'll just read them whenever I need something from those config files
08:43	hejki_	not all operations actually require anything from that global data (those are actually read lazily now in the python tool, too)
08:44	hejki_	however the package global state makes the current implementation read that data only once per execution
08:55	justin_smith	hejki_: you mention user config - be aware that nrepl is not a good idea on true multi-user systems
08:56	justin_smith	it opens an http port on a local socket that executes arbitrary code (including shelling out) as the user who spawned it
08:56	justin_smith	with no auth
08:56	justin_smith	(and grench uses nrepl)
09:05	gfredericks	~hi
09:05	clojurebot	No entiendo
09:06	justin_smith	nyello
09:10	gfredericks	after digging into using def inside a function, I'm surprised at how straightforward and harmless it is. It's just unidiomatic amirite?
09:11	gfredericks	not much worse than a global atom?
09:11	justin_smith	gfredericks: the problem is - what if you try to use the thing defined before the function is called - do you expect the function to get called more than once? etc.
09:11	justin_smith	gfredericks: I replace def inside functions with (def foo (promise)) and then put (deliver foo x) inside a function
09:12	justin_smith	then of course I need to deref
09:12	gfredericks	justin_smith: your first question applies to a global atom as well?
09:12	justin_smith	but it leaves out the open questions that an atom would leave hanging
09:12	justin_smith	gfredericks: sure, initialization issues
09:12	justin_smith	but a promise just blocks until delivered
09:12	justin_smith	which avoids that (as long as someone plans on delivering...)
09:12	gfredericks	can anybody think of any uses for a validator on a var?
09:13	gfredericks	a normal var I mean
09:13	justin_smith	a "normal" var, I only define once
09:13	gfredericks	exactly
09:13	justin_smith	I mean a validator is a great idea for something that gets a lot of updates, potentially from clients you don't control...
09:14	gfredericks	I feel like the idiomatic use of vars is just don't programmatically redefine them
09:14	justin_smith	but you should not be letting clients def your vars...
09:14	justin_smith	gfredericks: perhaps validator on a dynamic var?
09:14	justin_smith	that kind of makes sense, if you tolerate dynamics
09:15	gfredericks	yeah that's a good point
09:15	gfredericks	maybe also for with-local-vars which who even uses that
09:15	gfredericks	it feels like an almost entirely different kind of thing
09:15	justin_smith	I mean seriously, yeah
09:15	justin_smith	would any of us even notice if with-local-vars just disappeared?
09:16	gfredericks	I once came up with a non-composable tactic for turning a non-dynamic var into a dynamic one
09:16	gfredericks	I think it might've or could've used with-local-vars in the impl
09:18	justin_smith	a SO question I provided an inadequate answer to yesterday led to an idea for a useful utility
09:18	justin_smith	someone wants a command line with a long running lein instance where they can type in lein commands to run them
09:19	gfredericks	a repl for lein?
09:19	justin_smith	it seems like you could do that with a shell script that loads the lein jar, and runs a custom interpreter loop
09:19	justin_smith	yeah
09:19	gfredericks	didn't it have that feature at some point?
09:19	gfredericks	`lein interactive`
09:19	hyPiRion	yes, we did
09:19	stuartsierra	I thought it still did.
09:19	justin_smith	I think there is an issue that lein has some stuff that just breaks in long running processes
09:20	justin_smith	but what if you (every time? occasionally?) restarted lein after the command to get a fresh start...
09:20	justin_smith	or, bigger task, fixed the weird stuff that happens when lein stays running
09:20	justin_smith	said weird stuff I would need to do some more research - I recall technomancy talking about this a while back
09:21	justin_smith	stuartsierra: I think lein interactive was discontinued with lein 2.x
09:21	stuartsierra	oh
09:21	justin_smith	"lein rewrite using component" - awesom gsoc proposal
09:22	jballanc	justin_smith: according to crossclj, no...nobody would miss with-local-vars: http://crossclj.info/fun/cljs.core/with-local-vars.html
09:22	justin_smith	(inc jballanc)
09:22	hyPiRion	lazybot is as dead as every
09:22	hyPiRion	*ever
09:22	justin_smith	OK, this is getting way silly
09:23	justin_smith	yeah, I need to look into implementing "oh, I need to reconnect" logic in lazybot one of these days
09:23	justin_smith	if I wasn't behind on 3 different contracting jobs...
09:27	jballanc	,(rip lazybot)
09:27	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: rip in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
09:33	Bronsa	jballanc: I would https://github.com/clojure/tools.reader/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/reader/impl/utils.clj#L74-L77
09:33	jballanc	ah, interesting!
09:33	justin_smith	Bronsa: ahh, I guess crossclj doesn't cross reference tools.reader
09:33	jballanc	reminds me that I need to spend more time with tools.reader
09:34	Bronsa	justin_smith: no just jballanc linked cljs.core/with-local-vars rather than clojure.core/with-local-vars http://crossclj.info/fun/clojure.core/with-local-vars.html
09:35	jballanc	oh, whoops!
09:35	jballanc	:-[
09:35	justin_smith	ahh, OK
09:37	jballanc	Bronsa: wait...looking at the source for `with-local-vars`, wouldn't it make more sense to just call `(.. clojure.lang.Var create setDynamic)` directly?
09:37	jballanc	I mean, the whole thread context gets pushed and poped before you return `x`, so that doesn't really do anything for you, right?
09:38	ionthas	I have an infinite loop in a future, right now is only a counter. How can I get the current number of the future in my main thread? deref hangs up because the future it's still running.... any ideas?
09:38	justin_smith	ionthas: use an atom / agent / ref for the counter
09:38	tbaldridge	ionthas: kindof a odd use-case, but consider using agents
09:38	tbaldridge	,(doc agent)
09:38	clojurebot	"([state & options]); Creates and returns an agent with an initial value of state and zero or more options (in any order): :meta metadata-map :validator validate-fn :error-handler handler-fn :error-mode mode-keyword If metadata-map is supplied, it will become the metadata on the agent. validate-fn must be nil or a side-effect-free fn of one argument, which will be passed the intended new state on ...
09:38	Bronsa	jballanc: yes, except with-local-vars is a public var, Var/create and Var/setDynamic are implementation details
09:39	jballanc	hmm...true
09:39	justin_smith	yeah, that is a good use case for agent
09:39	ionthas	ok, thanks. I will look at them.
09:39	Bronsa	jballanc: and since one of t.r promises is backcompatibility, I'd rather not rely on implementation details that might change in the future
09:40	jballanc	yeah, a laudable goal...still makes me think that the ability to create new dynamic vars should be promoted to public API
09:40	justin_smith	(let [a (agent 0)] (dotimes [i 10000] (send a inc)) @a)
09:41	justin_smith	,(let [a (agent 0)] (dotimes [i 10000] (send a inc)) @a)
09:41	clojurebot	0
09:41	justin_smith	haha
09:41	Bronsa	jballanc: agreed
09:42	justin_smith	ionthas: in one's own repl, you'll notice you get numbers in the 8k to 10k range, but if there were even a short wait before the deref at the end you would consistently see 10k
09:42	Bronsa	,(let [a (agent 0)] (dotimes [i 10000] (send a inc)) (await a) @a)
09:42	justin_smith	aha!
09:42	clojurebot	eval service is offline
09:42	Bronsa	well
09:42	Bronsa	,(let [a (agent 0)] (dotimes [i 10] (send a inc)) (await a) @a)
09:42	Bronsa	whatever, that works.
09:42	clojurebot	eval service is offline
09:42	Bronsa	,1
09:42	clojurebot	1
09:42	hyPiRion	clojurebot doesn't like threads
09:42	Bronsa	clojurebot: you're a weirdo
09:42	clojurebot	Pardon?
09:43	justin_smith	(inc Bronsa)
09:43	justin_smith	I had forgotten about await
09:43	Bronsa	justin_smith: you are now my least favourite person, followed closely by lazybot
09:44	justin_smith	hehe
09:53	hejki_	justin_smith: user config is just per user per computer data (i.e. user preferences), not something where multiple users concurrently access the same system
09:54	justin_smith	hejki_: OH, OK
09:54	justin_smith	haha, didn't mean to all caps that.
09:54	justin_smith	hejki_: but there is still the concern that any process that can use loopback network can get the user's privs (but that's a smaller problem, of course)
09:55	justin_smith	has there been any work done to add local auth to nrepl?
09:56	hejki_	I do not think that is going to be a real problem
10:00	justin_smith	hejki_: yeah, it just reminded me of the general issue, which I think is still worth fixing
10:01	hejki_	btw, could I launch up a modified nREPL that contains all the user "globals" I wish, rest of the code would be executed via grench
10:01	hejki_	is anything ran in the repl session accessible via grench?
10:02	justin_smith	hejki_: well, how modified? the startup time issue is because of how clojure bootstraps itself
10:02	justin_smith	hejki_: grench is an nrepl client written in ocaml, it accesses a clojure process (and has full access to that process)
10:02	hejki_	well, I would like to read some data whenever the REPL is launched, and then that data could be referred in the code I run using grench in that REPL
10:03	justin_smith	hejki_: yeah, you can access whatever you like in the clojure server process via grench
10:04	hejki_	so I could always (use "myglobals") when the REPL is started and those would then be accessable in the code ran using grench
10:04	hejki_	?
10:04	justin_smith	hejki_: not that exact syntax, but yeah
10:05	hejki_	well yes
10:05	hejki_	:P
10:05	hejki_	'
10:05	hejki_	:)
10:05	hejki_	would it be a bit too transparent for a developer? they should "just know" that some namespace is preloaded in the repl
10:05	justin_smith	hejki_: typically I would have an init function that binds a bunch of config.
10:06	justin_smith	hejki_: I think it could be set up such that you put them in a default ns when they connect
10:06	justin_smith	and you can use / require / bind whatever you need to in that ns
10:06	hejki_	that would be awesome :)
10:07	justin_smith	hejki_: but the way clojure namespaces work, if they create / switch to their own ns, from that point they are on their own
10:07	hejki_	wouldn't that be just defining a namespace in the REPL startup and then using that namespace like any other namespace from the actual code?
10:07	justin_smith	hejki_: there is no such thing as "globally using" for all namespaces
10:07	hejki_	good :)
10:07	hejki_	I think I'll have to just install grench and do some experimentation
10:07	justin_smith	hejki_: you could define the ns in a normal clojure file, and just set it to be the repl default
10:07	hejki_	I just have boring work stuff I have finish first :P
10:08	justin_smith	hejki_: yeah, good plan
10:15	jackhill	Hi, can I get lein to communicate with nrepl over a unix domain socket instead of a network socket?
10:16	justin_smith	jackhill: the jvm can't do uds without a native lib
10:17	justin_smith	jackhill: that said, I don't know how hard it would be to make nrepl use that instead of a network socket (and I think doing so would be a great idea)
10:17	jackhill	justin_smith: I'm okay with using a native lib, or is that too hard?
10:17	jackhill	justin_smith: ah, I'll continue digging
10:17	justin_smith	jackhill: junixsocket might be worth trying out, I haven't had great luck with native libs but it could be I was trying to use a bad lib
10:19	jackhill	justin_smith: okay thanks. Do you have pointers about where in nrepl I'd look to try to make it use that?
10:21	justin_smith	jackhill: I think you would want to parameterize or replace start-server https://github.com/clojure/tools.nrepl/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/nrepl/server.clj#L121
10:21	justin_smith	jackhill: if your uds replacement for the network socket has the same api as ServerSocket, then it should Just Work™
10:22	justin_smith	jackhill: it's a small enough function that you could copy/paste to make a uds using replacement even
10:23	justin_smith	jackhill: mutatis mutandis for client, of course :)
10:25	jackhill	justin_smith: great, I'll look into it :)
10:34	michaelr`	re
10:36	martinklepsch	best way to get random alpanumeric 10 character strings in clojure?
10:37	martinklepsch	I guess cutting uuids isn't the right thing to do
10:37	llasram	martinklepsch: depends some on context. E.g, if for test.check tests then you should use appropriate generators :-)
10:38	noidi	,(apply str (repeatedly 10 #(rand-nth "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789")))
10:38	clojurebot	"m4uuvda17f"
10:38	hyPiRion	^
10:39	martinklepsch	llasram: not for testing
10:41	llasram	,(let [chars (->> (range 128) (filter #(or (Character/isAlphabetic (int %)) (Character/isDigit (int %)))) (map char) (into []))] (apply str (repeatedly 10 #(rand-nth chars))))
10:41	clojurebot	"OU7Ep7yHmK"
10:41	llasram	Look Ma, no magic strings! :-)
10:42	martinklepsch	I need these to be unique, can I rely on something as simple as rand-nth for that?
10:43	llasram	martinklepsch: uh. how unique?
10:43	martinklepsch	(should have mentioned that uniqueness requirement earlier, sorry)
10:43	hejki_	prng never provides unique enough ;>
10:43	Glenjamin	secure unique?
10:44	martinklepsch	Glenjamin: no
10:44	martinklepsch	Glenjamin: i.e. I don't need proof that it's going to be unique
10:44	Glenjamin	can you say the use-case?
10:44	Glenjamin	something like tiny-url?
10:45	martinklepsch	Glenjamin: yeah I guess that's similar
10:45	martinklepsch	I feel evil mentioning the actual usecase: tagging browsers via cookies
10:45	Glenjamin	i think generally for that there's a number store internally, and a two-way mapping from number to string
10:45	llasram	martinklepsch: You've made this a very different problem. What you actually have are 10 digit base-36 numbers
10:46	Glenjamin	why not just use uuid ?
10:46	martinklepsch	Glenjamin: legacy
10:46	llasram	martinklepsch: What you actually want to to make sure you're generating a unique sequence of numbers
10:46	llasram	martinklepsch: Can you just e.g. use persistent state to generate integers in standard order?
10:47	llasram	Or you could generate randomly and ensure uniqueness in a transactional database
10:48	martinklepsch	llasram: theoretically that'd be possible I guess however that's not how the system currently works and it would complicate things when things are distributed
10:49	martinklepsch	llasram: isn't this: (apply str (repeatedly 10 #(rand-nth "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789"))) the same as this basically: "What you actually have are 10 digit base-36 numbers"?
10:49	llasram	martinklepsch: 10 base-36 digits gives you ~51.7 bits
10:50	llasram	martinklepsch: Yes, but they're very different ways of thinking of the problem
10:50	martinklepsch	llasram: ok, that's right
10:52	martinklepsch	Glenjamin: sorry if my "legacy" reply earlier was a little minimal. I'm migrating a PHP system to clojure. PHP generates this kind of token, now I need to do the same thing in Clojure.
10:52	martinklepsch	Glenjamin: eventually that stuff is all handled by Clojure and we can switch to something sane like UUIDs
10:52	llasram	martinklepsch: Can you just implement the same algorithm the PHP code uses? Then it won't be any worse
10:53	martinklepsch	llasram: I can but I don't want to really:
10:53	martinklepsch	$hash = md5(mt_rand(1, 10000).microtime().getmypid().gethostname());
10:53	martinklepsch	return str_pad(substr(base_convert($hash, 16, 36),0,10),10,"0");
10:53	julianleviston	martinklepsch: what time or space period do they have to be unique across?
10:53	martinklepsch	There must be a less weird way of doing it in clojure :D
10:54	julianleviston	martinklepsch: nevermind, you kind of answered my q with your php implementation paste.
10:54	martinklepsch	julianleviston: what did that paste tell you about your q?
10:55	martinklepsch	julianleviston: I don't think the php implementation is ideal
10:55	julianleviston	martinklepsch: that you don’t care about total uniqunenss enough to be storing it in a db and checking previous ones or anything
10:55	llasram	martinklepsch: How many users do you have?
10:56	llasram	martinklepsch: But probably timestamp + some randomly-seeded randomness is the best you can do
10:57	julianleviston	martinklepsch: I don’t know what is wrong with uuid?
10:57	martinklepsch	julianleviston: it's 16 bytes vs 10
10:57	llasram	julianleviston: Because UUIDs are 128 bits and martinklepsch needs to fit this identifier into 51.7 bits
10:58	julianleviston	does this help? https://clojuredocs.org/clojure.core/rand-int
10:58	julianleviston	ie… the example on that page has a fn called “unique-randon-numbers”
11:00	julianleviston	martinklepsch: but that’s talking about uniquneness within itself… you want uniqueness outside of the numbers… sorry.
11:00	julianleviston	(ie no char repeated versus no repeated set of chars)
11:01	julianleviston	martinklepsch: can you use gensym?
11:01	julianleviston	martinklepsch: sorry I’ll be quiet :) I’m not helping.
11:03	martinklepsch	julianleviston: nah, it's appreciated :) but I just figure I'm just gonna do some randomness like (apply str (repeatedly 10 #(rand-nth "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789"))) for now and lobby to make the switch to UUIDs before anything goes live
11:03	julianleviston	martinklepsch: one more… this lib might be very helpful… https://github.com/maxcountryman/flake
11:03	clojurebot	Huh?
11:04	julianleviston	martinklepsch: (utils/base62-encode (flake/generate)) ; -> "8mwFA958SJ2CZVu9nk"
11:04	julianleviston	Decentralized, k-ordered unique ID generator
11:04	martinklepsch	julianleviston: what does this provide over UUIDs?
11:05	martinklepsch	https://github.com/boundary/flake#frequently-asked-questions
11:05	martinklepsch	nvm
11:05	julianleviston	guh… sorry. I didn’t see that it was 128bit only until too late. k. soz.
11:15	martinklepsch	julianleviston: interesting nontheless, thanks for the link, I noted it as UUID alternative
11:17	kodumulo	Is there a way to detect datatypes from strings? Like lets say i have a vector of strings, the first element is a normal string of characters, the second one is a string of numbers and the third one is a date. Is there a function I can map over them to convert them to string,number,date respectively?
11:17	sm0ke	is it possible to efficiently scan classpath for all implementation of a protocol?
11:17	julianleviston	kodumulo: the reader will do that...
11:18	kodumulo	julianleviston: not sure I understand what that mean
11:18	Bronsa	kodumulo: read-string
11:18	julianleviston	kodumulo: it’s how clojure reads source.
11:19	kodumulo	thnx
11:19	julianleviston	kodumulo: depending on your date literals, you might want to use something other than the reader… all depends on the format…
11:20	kodumulo	yeah its not working on these dates, oh well I'll think of something fancy for that. Thanks
11:21	julianleviston	kodumulo: this might help: https://github.com/clojurewerkz/serialism
11:21	Bronsa	kodumulo: also check out tagged literals
11:22	kodumulo	NumberFormatException Invalid number: 2015-01-06 clojure.lang.LispReader.readNumber (LispReader.java:256)
11:23	Bronsa	,(read-string "#inst \"2015-01-06\"")
11:23	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: denied>
11:23	Bronsa	kodumulo: try that on your repl
11:23	julianleviston	kodumulo: it’s a tagged literal
11:23	kodumulo	I am reading from a file, I don't know before hand if its a date or not, this isn't clojure data
11:23	Bronsa	kodumulo: then read-string is not what you need
11:24	kodumulo	I'm discovering that ;)
11:24	julianleviston	kodumulo: that lib I linked you to probably does anything you want to throw at it.
11:24	kodumulo	julianleviston: nice thanks
11:24	julianleviston	gotta be specific as possible with your q’s. o-)
11:24	julianleviston	it’s hard.
11:27	sardinha_biba	What's the meaning of arity in this expression please? "Functions can also be overloaded by arity." I'm not a native english speaker and i'm having some difficulty understanding it.
11:27	tcrayford____	sardinha_biba: "arity" is the number of arguments a function can take
11:27	Bronsa	sardinha_biba: (fn ([] 0) ([x] 1))
11:28	Bronsa	sardinha_biba: that function can take either 0 or 1 args, those are those functions' arities
11:28	julianleviston	sardinha_biba: it’s not a normal english word. It’s a programming term.
11:28	justin_smith	julianleviston: also math / logic
11:29	julianleviston	justin_smith: too true! :)
11:29	justin_smith	but yeah, not conversational english at all
11:29	julianleviston	sardinha_biba: a quick google will find it for you BTW… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arity
11:29	sardinha_biba	so arity = number of arguments a function can take?
11:30	tcrayford____	yep
11:31	julianleviston	sardinha_biba: and arity overloading is when a function has different bodies, each of which correspond to a different number of arguments
11:31	nonrecursive	sardinha_biba: also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_overloading “Function overloading or method overloading is the ability to create multiple methods of the same name with different implementations”
11:31	kodumulo	in grammar it's called valency
11:31	julianleviston	kodumulo: oh wow… I did not know that…
11:32	kodumulo	and the function is a predicate, although in programming only some functions are predicates
11:32	sardinha_biba	its atarting to make sense now :)
11:32	sardinha_biba	thank you all for the clarifications
11:32	sardinha_biba	and the links :)
11:32	kodumulo	essentially in natural language all verbs return true (the basic idea behind lojban)
11:33	julianleviston	kodumulo: Ah… I didn’t know it because I’d primarily studied functional grammar
11:33	kodumulo	i mean all verbs return true or false
11:34	julianleviston	kodumulo: I need to study more :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valency_(linguistics) this is cool. Thanks for that.
11:34	kodumulo	np
11:35	kodumulo	in lojban all verbs have a fixed valency/arity
11:35	julianleviston	kodumulo: hehe that’s a funny language… did you ever learn any esperanto?
11:36	kodumulo	Jes, mi povas paroli Esperanton tre bone
11:36	julianleviston	mi forgesis mia esperanton
11:36	kodumulo	Mia nomo estas Esperanta
11:37	julianleviston	I do like it, tho :)
11:37	dbronico	Hey, guys. I've got a question regarding calling an external program (not caring about the results). I started with clojure.java.shell/sh, but I think it's 1., the wrong place to use it, and 2., it wouldn't pass all of the arguments correctly. So I looked at calling Java's 'exec' through java.util.Runtime, but the program terminates before the exec call is finished. Wrapping it with 'waitFor' caused it to hang. Any suggestions?
11:39	julianleviston	kodumulo: ah… mi vidas… http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodumulo
11:42	tbaldridge	sm0ke: if you just want to get all current impls of a protocol you can do this:
11:42	tbaldridge	,(:impls clojure.core.protocols/CollReduce)
11:42	clojurebot	{nil {:coll-reduce #<protocols$fn__6424 clojure.core.protocols$fn__6424@400bbd0b>}, java.lang.Object {:coll-reduce #<protocols$fn__6422 clojure.core.protocols$fn__6422@33801e1a>}, clojure.lang.IReduce {:coll-reduce #<protocols$fn__6420 clojure.core.protocols$fn__6420@52f07026>}, clojure.lang.ASeq {:coll-reduce #<protocols$fn__6418 clojure.core.protocols$fn__6418@386f0df7>}, clojure.lang.LazySeq {:...
11:44	Bronsa	tbaldridge: i'm not sure that includes the inline impls
11:44	Bronsa	,(deftype x [] clojure.core.protocols/CollReduce)
11:44	clojurebot	sandbox.x
11:44	Bronsa	,((:impls clojure.core.protocols/CollReduce) sandbox.x)
11:45	clojurebot	nil
11:45	Bronsa	,((:impls clojure.core.protocols/CollReduce) 'sandbox.x)
11:45	clojurebot	nil
11:45	Bronsa	yeah, no
11:45	julianleviston	,(:impls clojure.core.protocols/CollReduce)
11:45	clojurebot	{nil {:coll-reduce #<protocols$fn__6424 clojure.core.protocols$fn__6424@400bbd0b>}, java.lang.Object {:coll-reduce #<protocols$fn__6422 clojure.core.protocols$fn__6422@33801e1a>}, clojure.lang.IReduce {:coll-reduce #<protocols$fn__6420 clojure.core.protocols$fn__6420@52f07026>}, clojure.lang.ASeq {:coll-reduce #<protocols$fn__6418 clojure.core.protocols$fn__6418@386f0df7>}, clojure.lang.LazySeq {:...
11:46	julianleviston	,(-> (:impls clojure.core.protocols/CollReduce) vals first (get 'sandbox.x))
11:46	clojurebot	nil
11:46	julianleviston	Bronsa: were they equiv?
11:47	Bronsa	what?
11:47	clojurebot	what can possibly go wrong
11:47	julianleviston	Bronsa: Ah soz… I didn’t realise what was going on :)
11:47	julianleviston	Bronsa: the initial key of nil threw me off.
11:49	ppppaul	is there a quick way to pretty print/beautify clojure/edn on the command line/lighttable/web ???
11:49	julianleviston	ppppaul: pprint
11:49	ppppaul	pprint means i am in a clojue env
11:50	ppppaul	which, i'm not (hence web/command line ref)
11:50	mdrogalis	ppppaul: Cljs doesn't have pprint yet.
11:50	mdrogalis	I usually get around this by pprinting it on the server and sending it to JS. Sad face.
11:50	ppppaul	i know cljs doesn't have pprint... is there a web service that will pprint, or lighttable plugin (there is one for JS beautify)
11:51	ppppaul	i don't have the option to pprint on the server, as i don't have a server
11:51	ppppaul	my edn data is coming from mori, actually
11:52	mdrogalis	ppppaul: Not sure, sorry. :(
11:52	ppppaul	i have been converting my edn into JS and using jsbeautify
11:53	julianleviston	What’s this? http://crossclj.info/ns/org.clojure/clojurescript/latest/cljs.pprint.cljs.html
11:54	julianleviston	is it borked?
11:58	ppppaul	i feel borked
12:00	julianleviston	ppppaul: same…
12:00	julianleviston	but that might just be because it’s 4 am.
12:01	sardinha_biba	lies.. it's 17h
12:01	justin_smith	~ugt
12:01	clojurebot	ugt is Universal Greeting Time: http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
12:02	sardinha_biba	:)
12:03	julianleviston	haha sorry :)
12:03	justin_smith	I think referencing your local time is fine
12:05	{blake}	OK, so, I've got this ns my co-worker wrote for accessing MongoDB, wherein every call starts by opening a connection to the DB (which is never closed =P).
12:06	{blake}	I'm looking at how to fix. There doesn't seem to be a "Is this connection good?" pingy kind of thing in Monger.
12:06	tcrayford____	{blake}: doesn't Monger's underlying driver just handle busted connections by default? It should :/
12:07	{blake}	One problem that recurs under other languages with DB access is the wrapping of everything in exception handling/error checking, but that's kind of weak.
12:07	{blake}	tcrayford____: You know, I don't really know. I don't see any reason to believe that it does, though.
12:07	tcrayford____	yea, oof :( File an issue I guess?
12:07	tbaldridge	depending on your client library, it might also be doing connection pooling/reuse
12:07	{blake}	If you connect, you get a connection...string?...back.
12:08	tbaldridge	what are you using to talk to Mongo?
12:08	{blake}	tbaldridge: Monger. And I discovered the problem when I killed my local app (just me testing) and watched MongoDB close about 2,000 live connections. =P
12:08	{blake}	So I don't think it's auto-pooling. =)
12:09	michaelr`	thank god for postgres ;)
12:09	{blake}	Looking at getDB, it's just "(.getDB conn name)", where conn is passed in.
12:09	uris77	is there a way to create a deployable jar for ring apps, similar to the way it is done with spring boot and dropwizard?
12:09	{blake}	michaelr`: Pretty sure we could screw this up with Postgres, too. Heh.
12:09	michaelr`	jk
12:12	{blake}	So, I'm thinking, maybe I stub out our little connection call so that it returns whatever the connection is. This will work as long as the connection remains unbroken.
12:12	tcrayford____	uris77: yeah, look for "uberjar"
12:13	uris77	ah, thank you tcrayford____
12:13	{blake}	Doing that, though, do I also wrap the other routines in such a way that a failure checks for bad connection, and retries to connect? And if so, how?
12:14	{blake}	Aspect Oriented Progrmaming! =)
12:15	julianleviston	{blake}: couldn’t your stubbing include check and retry if not connected?
12:16	jcrossley3	gfredericks: i like your talk title :)
12:17	gfredericks	jcrossley3: heythanks!
12:17	{blake}	julianleviston: It could! If I had any way to check! I thought about reauthenticating on every request as a test, but that seems somewhat excessive. (Less so than opening a new connection every time, though, I must admit.)
12:18	julianleviston	{blake}: it really gives you no way to determine if you’re connected?
12:19	{blake}	julianleviston: Not that I see, and I'm perusing the code for likely candidate. Though if I can find such a utility in MongoDB itself, I could probably use that.
12:20	thearthur	at the conj there was mention of a non-blocking put and take function for core.async, anyone remember what that was called?
12:20	julianleviston	{blake}: what happens if you issue a command and it’s not connected? You could use that as your verification… I guess this is why you were talking about wrappering all your queries
12:20	tbaldridge	thearthur: put! and take! are non-blocking
12:20	julianleviston	thearthur: put! take! right?
12:20	julianleviston	tbaldridge: oh too quick! :)
12:20	julianleviston	(inc tbaldridge)
12:21	thearthur	tbaldridge: julianleviston I guess i meant non-parking then
12:21	julianleviston	thearthur: yes. that is what they are.
12:21	{blake}	julianleviston: Exactly. And it's the sort of problem that comes up in DB programming all the time. So, if I have to do it, I wanna do it in a non-sucky way.
12:21	julianleviston	thearthur: they don’t park a go block, or block a thread, and they can be used in or out of go blocks
12:22	thearthur	so if the buffer is full they should return an error instead of parking the block until the buffer empties
12:22	tbaldridge	thearthur: yeah, I think Rich mentioned that. Don't think they are implemented yet.
12:22	whomp	how do i get the cursive ide? i can't find it in the list of plugins for intellij idea
12:23	julianleviston	whomp: you have to add a repo in intellij or d/l it from the site.. there are instructions on the site.
12:23	Bronsa	whomp: https://cursiveclojure.com/userguide/
12:23	whomp	thx :)
12:24	julianleviston	tbaldridge: really? so what do they do now? I thought they worked async… so they just buffered it or something?
12:24	julianleviston	tbaldridge: it did cross my mind as being curious a couple times, actually.
12:25	tbaldridge	julianleviston: no, Rich mentioned at the conj that he wants to add something like non-blocking deref for channels. take! and put! require a callback
12:25	julianleviston	tbaldridge: i guess it probably spins up a go block that finishes when the put succeeds?
12:25	tbaldridge	Rich wants to add (poll c) where you either get nil or a value instantly, never a block and no callback required
12:26	julianleviston	tbaldridge: put! doesn’t require a callback… oh… so if it fails, it silently fails at the moment??
12:26	julianleviston	tbaldridge: why is this not in the documentation? :) :)
12:26	raspasov	tbaldridge: can you achieve something like that with alts!! and using the :default?
12:27	tbaldridge	julianleviston: here's the bit of Rich's talk about it: http://youtu.be/4KqUvG8HPYo?t=50m28s
12:27	raspasov	tbaldrige: (alts!! [my-chan] :default :nothing-immediately-in-chan)
12:27	{blake}	I love when things are marked as deprecated with no suggestion of what their functionality is being replaced by.
12:28	julianleviston	tbaldridge: ;ian. byt O
12:28	julianleviston	tbaldridge: yeah but I’m just curious about if I do a put! outside of a go block into a chan right now that is full, what is supposed to happen?
12:29	raspasov	julianleviston: if you put too many you'll start getting exceptions I believe
12:29	raspasov	using put!
12:29	julianleviston	raspasov: yeah, 1024.
12:29	tbaldridge	julianleviston: if you provide a callback, the callback will not be run until the buffer has room for the put. If you try to do too many puts, eventually you will get an exception.
12:29	julianleviston	raspasov: assuming a standard (chan)…
12:30	tbaldridge	julianleviston: that 1024 limit is hard-coded, there is no config for it. Channels consist of 3 "queues" the puts, takes and the buffer. Puts and takes have a hard limit of 1024
12:30	tbaldridge	*pending puts and takes
12:30	julianleviston	tbaldridge: oh really? I thought I’d managed to have a (chan 2048) in my code...
12:30	{blake}	1K ought to be enough for anybody.
12:30	julianleviston	tbaldridge: interesting. I wish this was written down somewhere
12:30	tbaldridge	sure, thats changing the size of the buffer, not the size of the pending (blocking) puts and takes
12:31	julianleviston	{blake}: lol… nice.
12:31	thearthur	julianleviston: that alts method shows promise as a workaround
12:31	julianleviston	thearthur: it does? how’s that?
12:32	thearthur	the goal is to get all the messages currently avaiable now, consolidate them into a collection and then move on
12:32	tbaldridge	raspasov: yeah, you can do the same thing with alts! and :default, but that method creates a fair amount of garbage and bookkeeping, it's probably possible to do it in a much more efficient way.
12:32	julianleviston	tbaldridge: the annoying thing in my program is I’m using one main channel to handle all my events. I guess this answers the question “should I have more than 1 main channel”… I added two more and kept the main one as a handler that hands off calls to 3 other ones the other day… quite helpful...
12:32	thearthur	is there a better way of going about that?
12:33	gfredericks	fun fact: NPEs have null messages
12:33	tbaldridge	thearthur: yeah, with the API as it is today, I'd just do alts+:default
12:33	raspasov	tbaldridge: you mean garbage in terms of GC/objects or just ugly code?
12:33	danielglauser	gfredericks: niiiice
12:34	julianleviston	gfredericks: what’s an NPE?
12:34	tcrayford____	nullpointerexception
12:34	tbaldridge	raspasov: yeah, it creates about 3-4 objects, plus it creates a "slot" in the channel that is canceled right away. I don't know how Rich wants to go about implementing offer! and poll! but they could be done with very little (no?) garbage creation
12:35	gfredericks	I would demo it but I don't think the bots let you catch things
12:35	julianleviston	oh … right.
12:36	whomp	how do i create a new clojure project with resources/, src/, etc. from intellij cursive?
12:36	julianleviston	whomp: I think you have to do it in lein...
12:36	julianleviston	whomp: but don’t quote me on that
12:37	julianleviston	I don’t like promises… I think that might be because I wrote a lot of RSVP ones when I wrote my app in Ember… and it was so hard to think about. With channels it might be much easier to think about.
12:37	whomp	thx julian
12:38	justin_smith	julianleviston: I like promises for values that only get delivered once, but not right away. Not for threading complex logic via callbacks though.
12:38	julianleviston	justin_smith: yeah, it’s more about delivery than program data flow...
12:38	justin_smith	whomp: I think File -> New Project should set things up, no?
12:39	justin_smith	julianleviston: right, I don't think promises are good for program flow
12:39	whomp	justin_smith, not really
12:39	justin_smith	julianleviston: but they are better than using an atom that only gets set once
12:40	justin_smith	whomp: oh, yeah, julianleviston was right https://cursiveclojure.com/userguide/leiningen.html
12:40	justin_smith	haha
12:41	julianleviston	should have seen the mess I had to write in Ember in order to do a recursive tree structure clone… GUH
12:41	raspasov	tbaldridge: cool, thanks for clarification!
12:41	julianleviston	like 70 lines of coffeescript and many hours of my life
12:41	julianleviston	ugly ugly ugly
12:42	julianleviston	amusingly to do that in clojure is like… almost 0 lines of code.
12:42	{blake}	(For large values of "0")
12:42	julianleviston	{blake}: well… how do you clone a large map? You don’t need to… right? :)
12:43	julianleviston	{blake}: (assoc m :id new-id) ; <- something like that, if I want to change the id.
12:43	justin_smith	,(let [m' m] m') - done
12:43	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: m in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
12:43	julianleviston	justin_smith: lol :)
12:43	{blake}	Hah!
12:43	justin_smith	why did I use ,? my brain is missing
12:44	julianleviston	justin_smith: because I’m tired, and I infected you :)
12:44	julianleviston	justin_smith: ok I gotta go sleep… :) was lovely talking to all of you today!
12:44	julianleviston	laters
13:14	{blake}	Interesting. Coming from languages where variables were indistinct from functions (in terms of calling conventions), I could replace any variable access with a function call transparently. Can't do that en Clojure.
13:21	justin_smith	{blake}: on the other hand, vars automatically call their dereffed value in the calling position
13:21	justin_smith	,(#'+ 1 1)
13:21	clojurebot	2
13:24	hyPiRion	{blake}: huh. Then if you have a variable, how would you say I want to return it? You can just call it then, right?
13:24	hyPiRion	if that variable was a function
13:30	justin_smith	another option would be to always deref
13:31	justin_smith	the source of the data can deside on what kind of dereffable thing they should provide
13:31	justin_smith	*decide
13:32	justin_smith	it could be an atom, a delay, whatever
13:32	justin_smith	a deftype that calls a function when you deref
13:32	justin_smith	whatever evil thing you like
13:32	hyPiRion	call-by-deref
13:32	justin_smith	right
13:32	justin_smith	probably the right way to do UAP in clojure, but UAP isn't a very good idea in clojure
13:35	hyPiRion	,(proxy [clojure.lang.IDeref] [] (deref [] (prn "hi")))
13:35	clojurebot	"hi"\n#<Object$IDeref$e595a7c1@7cec352a: nil>
13:36	justin_smith	why did it get dereffed?
13:36	justin_smith	or is that not what happened?
13:36	hyPiRion	it was printed
13:36	justin_smith	ahh
13:36	hyPiRion	,(do @(proxy [clojure.lang.IDeref] [] (deref [] (prn "hi"))) nil)
13:36	clojurebot	"hi"\n
13:36	hyPiRion	,(do (proxy [clojure.lang.IDeref] [] (deref [] (prn "hi"))) nil)
13:36	clojurebot	nil
13:36	justin_smith	cool
13:37	justin_smith	so, it's value is nil, but it prints "hi" whenever you access the value
13:37	hyPiRion	yup
13:37	justin_smith	well that's that, we have implemented the important features of ruby in clojure, we're done now
13:39	hyPiRion	oh hey
13:39	hyPiRion	,(alter-var-root #'clojure.core/unquote (constantly deref))
13:39	clojurebot	#<core$deref clojure.core$deref@6f1792ce>
13:39	hyPiRion	,~(atom 10)
13:39	clojurebot	10
13:39	justin_smith	oh no
13:42	gfredericks	hey unary
13:42	gfredericks	,(alter-var-root #'clojure.core/unquote (constantly inc))
13:42	clojurebot	#<core$inc clojure.core$inc@61a36d43>
13:42	gfredericks	,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~0
13:42	clojurebot	25
13:42	gfredericks	the idris people will love it
13:43	hyPiRion	woah
13:43	tomjack	only if it compiles down to primitive arithmetic
13:43	tomjack	:P
13:43	gfredericks	downside is it's probably stackful
13:43	gfredericks	so you can't make big numbers
13:43	justin_smith	now figure out how to access alter-var-root etc. from swearjure, and you can start doing some insanity
13:43	gfredericks	,(alter-var-root #'clojure.core/unquote-splicing (constantly #(* % %)))
13:43	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval203$fn__204 sandbox$eval203$fn__204@f8913dd>
13:44	gfredericks	,~~~~~~~~@~~~~~@~~~~@~~~~~~~~0
13:44	clojurebot	20187056
13:44	{blake}	hyPiRion: Well, you're not calling it, right? 'cause it's not a function. But from the programmer's standpoint "val = something + 1" doesn't change if something is a var or a fn.
13:44	justin_smith	gfredericks: omfg
13:44	gfredericks	how efficient of a representation is just incing and squaring?
13:44	{blake}	hyPiRion: And, in some cases, you can even say "val = something + 1" and it won't matter if =val= is a variable or function.
13:44	TimMc	justin_smith: I don't think we'll be able to break out of the swearjure prison unless we can like... glitch the JVM.
13:44	gfredericks	probably not very
13:45	{blake}	justin_smith: I'm trying to parse that.
13:45	justin_smith	{blake}: parse which?
13:46	{blake}	justin_smith: "on the other hand, vars automatically call their dereffed value in the calling position"
13:46	hyPiRion	TimMc: perhaps if there are bugs with the new conditional form, #?
13:46	gfredericks	,(alter-var-root #'clojure.core/unquote (constantly #(* 2 %)))
13:46	hyPiRion	or the #?@ version
13:46	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval26$fn__27 sandbox$eval26$fn__27@51993720>
13:46	gfredericks	,(alter-var-root #'clojure.core/unquote-splicing (constantly #(inc (* 2 %))))
13:46	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval53$fn__54 sandbox$eval53$fn__54@7bb0d860>
13:46	justin_smith	,(type #'+) ; {blake}
13:46	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Var
13:47	gfredericks	^ that should give an efficient representation though
13:47	justin_smith	{blake}: so that's a var
13:47	gfredericks	,~~~~~~@0
13:47	clojurebot	32
13:47	justin_smith	,(#'+ 1 1) ; it auto-derefs and calls
13:47	clojurebot	2
13:47	{blake}	justin_smith: The plus sign is a var? Pointing to the plus function?
13:47	gfredericks	,~@~~~~~~@0
13:47	clojurebot	65
13:47	justin_smith	{blake}: no #'+ is a var
13:47	{blake}	justin_smith: So...lemme think how I can apply that.
13:48	{blake}	pound quote plus? =P Hang on...
13:48	hyPiRion	{blake}: so #'+ is not +, but @#'+ is the same as +
13:48	TimMc	hyPiRion: Oh man, I haven't looked at the conditional stuff yet!
13:48	justin_smith	and furthermore, #'+ when used as a function looks up + and calls it for you
13:48	aperiodic	,(= #'+ (var +))
13:48	clojurebot	true
13:49	hyPiRion	TimMc: It doesn't seem useful yet, but if there are bugs in it we might get a chance
13:49	hyPiRion	Oh right
13:49	TimMc	There could be bugs anywhere already.
13:49	hyPiRion	{blake}: #'x is just sugar for (var x)
13:49	hyPiRion	,'#'x
13:49	clojurebot	(var x)
13:49	TimMc	Maybe we need to add metadata to just the right thing or something.
13:49	TimMc	or a parser bug somewhere
13:49	hyPiRion	yeah
13:50	hyPiRion	How should we go forward though? Make fuzzy tests or something?
13:51	hyPiRion	maybe we can use this
13:51	hyPiRion	,(-> + #'foo)
13:51	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/+
13:53	krat0sprakhar	hi everyone
13:53	krat0sprakhar	i've been trying to wrack my brains on problem 132 on 4clojure
13:53	krat0sprakhar	my solution is passing all but the last test case - https://www.refheap.com/96906
13:53	krat0sprakhar	any idea whats wrong?
13:56	krat0sprakhar	my hunch is that my solutions uses reduce with iterate
13:56	krat0sprakhar	,(take 10 (->> (iterate inc 10) (reduce +)))
13:56	krat0sprakhar	will fail
13:56	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
13:58	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: the last case returns an infinite series
13:58	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: so your function needs to be lazy
13:58	krat0sprakhar	yeah..
13:59	krat0sprakhar	but i cant do that with reduce right?
13:59	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: no, you can't
13:59	krat0sprakhar	so i need to find another way that doesn't rely on reduce?
13:59	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: it's good to know how to use lazy-seq (or you can even use concat in a recursive function for this particular case)
13:59	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: yeah
14:00	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: try it with lazy-seq directly - that's the more tedious but more informative way as a beginner I think :)
14:00	justin_smith	it's basically just going to look like a recursive function
14:00	krat0sprakhar	haha.. i'm having a hard time understanding the lazy-seq macro
14:00	krat0sprakhar	can i use loop / recur?
14:01	krat0sprakhar	or will that fail as well
14:01	gfredericks	lazy-seq is normally used with normal recursion
14:01	justin_smith	yeah - you want laziness with dumb recursion
14:01	justin_smith	ie. calling the same function, not using recur
14:01	krat0sprakhar	ah ok
14:02	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: conj.io has good examples of stuff http://conj.io/store/v0/org.clojure/clojure/1.7.0-alpha4/clj/clojure.core/lazy-seq/
14:02	krat0sprakhar	so using let bindings i can get the first part of the collection, then conj it with a lazy seq - calling the function recursively?
14:02	justin_smith	right
14:02	justin_smith	and because lazy-seq thunkifies things, you won't blow the stack
14:03	gfredericks	~lazy-seq \|thunkifies\| things
14:03	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
14:03	{blake}	Ahhh...I'm getting "var" and "def" mixed up.
14:03	krat0sprakhar	justin_smith: thanks! i'll give that a shot
14:03	justin_smith	weee got that thunk, got to have that thunk
14:03	krat0sprakhar	will come back to you if i'm not able to solve it :P
14:03	krat0sprakhar	hope thats okay
14:03	justin_smith	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4nOHdUntyM
14:04	{blake}	Wait, they are the same thing, sorta.
14:04	justin_smith	{blake}: def creates vars
14:04	justin_smith	(var x) gets the thing def created
14:04	justin_smith	using the symbol x looks up that def's value
14:04	krat0sprakhar	justin_smith: this is groovy .. thanks! :D
14:04	justin_smith	gotta have that thunk
14:04	krat0sprakhar	LOL :D
14:05	{blake}	justin_smith: Right.
14:05	justin_smith	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunk in case you didn't know
14:05	justin_smith	it's how laziness is done
14:06	krat0sprakhar	wow! so thunk is really a word :D
14:06	krat0sprakhar	i had no clue
14:07	krat0sprakhar	,(def my-msg "thunk")
14:07	clojurebot	#'sandbox/my-msg
14:07	krat0sprakhar	,(count my-msg)
14:07	clojurebot	5
14:07	krat0sprakhar	wow
14:07	krat0sprakhar	you know, this clojurebot is much more awesome than tryclj.com
14:07	justin_smith	also, you can access clojurebot via /msg
14:07	krat0sprakhar	the repl there is quite buggy as anthony as longer working on it..
14:08	krat0sprakhar	and boy is clojurebot fast!
14:08	justin_smith	Raynes has been far from the clojure fold
14:08	krat0sprakhar	why so
14:08	krat0sprakhar	?
14:08	justin_smith	he is doing other langs for work now
14:08	krat0sprakhar	haskell? i remember seeing a post on his blog
14:10	krat0sprakhar	anyone with cursive got a clue what does the error msg - "no nREPL ack recieved mean"?
14:10	krat0sprakhar	after that outofmemory error it doesnt seem to recover.. tried restarting intellij as well
14:10	justin_smith	either nrepl did not start, or it did not reply quickly enough
14:11	justin_smith	hmm, yeah out of memory - is that because your machine is low on memory, or maybe you could raise the limit above the default?
14:12	krat0sprakhar	hmm everythign else to be running fine
14:12	justin_smith	I think nrepl ends up in its own vm
14:13	TimMc	hyPiRion: I'm thinking of course of the Pokemon glitch that allowed a team to program tetris inside of pokemon just using controller inputs.
14:13	hyPiRion	oh, of course
14:13	krat0sprakhar	if i rm -rf target folder and run lein repl will that help?
14:13	krat0sprakhar	cant do lein repl from the command line also
14:13	krat0sprakhar	REPL server launch timed out
14:14	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: OK, what about lein :trampoline repl
14:14	krat0sprakhar	trying..
14:14	justin_smith	(there are some other things we can try if that fails too)
14:14	krat0sprakhar	':trampoline' is not a task.
14:14	hyPiRion	remove the colon
14:14	justin_smith	oh, oops, my bad
14:14	krat0sprakhar	sorry :P
14:15	justin_smith	no, it's my fault
14:15	hyPiRion	TimMc: did we get any way with #= ?
14:16	hyPiRion	TimMc: If we can find a symbol form for first we can do stuff like
14:16	hyPiRion	,(#=(first #'+) -)
14:16	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.>
14:16	krat0sprakhar	justin_smith: got any more recommendations for some programming music like the clinton one? :D
14:16	hyPiRion	ahhh
14:17	hyPiRion	,(binding [read-eval true] (#=(first #'+) -))
14:17	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.>
14:17	hyPiRion	:(
14:17	krat0sprakhar	:D
14:17	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: mostly meant that as a pun on "thunk" but now I am playlisting james brown / george clinton
14:17	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: so did the trampoline repl help?
14:18	krat0sprakhar	fetching dependancies
14:18	krat0sprakhar	not on a good connection.. sorry.. taking some time
14:18	krat0sprakhar	shouldn't rm -rf target folder bring everything back to initial state?
14:18	TimMc	,(alter-var-root #'clojure.core/read-eval (constantly true))
14:18	clojurebot	true
14:18	krat0sprakhar	(just guessing here)
14:18	TimMc	,(#=(first #'+) -)
14:18	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.>
14:19	hyPiRion	,(set! read-eval)
14:19	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Malformed assignment, expecting (set! target val), compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:20	TimMc	It's bound in the scope of the reader, and our binding doesn't take effect until after reading.
14:21	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: target just has your compiled output, not deps
14:21	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: and lein should usually handle the compiled output smartly, most of the time
14:21	hyPiRion	,(binding [read-eval true] (eval (read-string "#=(+ 1 2)")))
14:21	clojurebot	3
14:21	hyPiRion	hurray
14:21	krat0sprakhar	ok.. is there any way i can set the project state back to the intial state?
14:22	krat0sprakhar	i cant do lein repl only inside taht folder
14:22	krat0sprakhar	its working everywhere else
14:22	TimMc	,(alter-var-root #'clojure.core/read (constantly (let [r @#'read] #(binding [read-eval true] (apply r %&)))))
14:22	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval233$fn__234 sandbox$eval233$fn__234@7061ce7d>
14:22	krat0sprakhar	trampoline still installing
14:22	TimMc	,(#=(first #'+) -)
14:22	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.>
14:22	TimMc	ah well
14:23	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: that makes me think the timeout from cursive's connect was because the downloads were happening in the background
14:23	hyPiRion	I think it's read-string
14:23	krat0sprakhar	i started the downloads
14:23	krat0sprakhar	just now
14:23	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: recall I said either it did not start, or did not reply in time
14:23	justin_smith	right
14:23	krat0sprakhar	the download doesnt happen everytime right?
14:23	krat0sprakhar	just the first time the proejct is set up..
14:23	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: but if it loaded them before, it wouldn't be happening this time
14:24	krat0sprakhar	right
14:24	krat0sprakhar	so it had..
14:24	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: the first time any of your projects uses a dep
14:24	krat0sprakhar	after i went crazy with iterate and reduce
14:24	krat0sprakhar	it screwed up
14:24	TimMc	hyPiRion: #= requires literal symbols and only resolves the top level expression.
14:24	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: going crazy with iterate and reduce should not be able to mess up your local dep repo state
14:25	TimMc	,(binding [read-eval true] (eval (read-string "#=(class hi)")))
14:25	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Symbol
14:25	hyPiRion	yeah. So I was kind of hoping it could be used to something
14:25	krat0sprakhar	hehe.. apologies for rambling :D
14:25	krat0sprakhar	my project has no external deps.. so lein repl should work
14:25	hyPiRion	,(binding [read-eval true] (eval (read-string "(quote #=(first #'+))")))
14:25	krat0sprakhar	its working on all other projecs
14:25	clojurebot	var
14:25	krat0sprakhar	*projects
14:27	hyPiRion	,(defn sharp-eval [s] (binding [read-eval true] (eval (read-string s))))
14:27	clojurebot	#'sandbox/sharp-eval
14:27	hyPiRion	,(sharp-eval "(quote #=(first `[~@[]]))")
14:27	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: sharp-eval in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:27	hyPiRion	argh
14:27	TimMc	reset?
14:27	hyPiRion	well, that gives me apply
14:27	hyPiRion	,(defn sharp-eval [s] (binding [read-eval true] (eval (read-string s))))
14:27	clojurebot	#'sandbox/sharp-eval
14:27	hyPiRion	,(sharp-eval "(quote #=(first `[~@[]]))")
14:27	clojurebot	clojure.core/apply
14:27	krat0sprakhar	,(let [[a b c *xs] '( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7)] xs)
14:27	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: xs in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:28	krat0sprakhar	why is this wrong?
14:28	krat0sprakhar	,(let [[a b c *xs] '( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7)] (+ a b c )
14:28	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
14:28	TimMc	hyPiRion: But you can get the ssymbol 'apply without #=.
14:28	krat0sprakhar	,(let [[a b c *xs] '( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7)] (+ a b c ))
14:28	clojurebot	6
14:28	hyPiRion	TimMc: Aw, righto. I thought it actually was the function :(
14:29	TimMc	krat0sprakhar: Because this isn't Python, if I read your intent correctly.
14:29	krat0sprakhar	hmm.. so how can I get the rest of the list ?
14:29	TimMc	krat0sprakhar: [a b c & xs]
14:30	krat0sprakhar	oh crap.. sorry!
14:31	krat0sprakhar	justin_smith: i had the iterate + reduce code in the core.clj file because of which teh repl timed out whenever it tried to restart.. stupid me :\| ..
14:31	krat0sprakhar	it works now.. thanks for the help
14:34	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: ahh - yeah, in general side effects on the top level of a namespace are a bad idea
14:34	justin_smith	so of course it times out, because it wants to evaluate the namespace before giving you your prompt
14:34	justin_smith	lesson learned, we can hope
14:34	krat0sprakhar	time to finally give 132 a try :P
14:34	krat0sprakhar	definitely :D
14:34	krat0sprakhar	git checkout to the rescue
14:35	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: the general idea is you can put anything with side effects into a function or a delay, so that just loading the file doesn't make <whatever> happen every time you load it
14:35	krat0sprakhar	got it!
14:41	krat0sprakhar	justin_smith: all lazy-seq examples follow the pattern (cons x (lazy-seq ..))
14:41	krat0sprakhar	can I do (conj (lazy-seq ..) a b)
14:41	krat0sprakhar	instead?
14:41	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: sure, but conj ends up doing cons on a lazy seq input
14:41	justin_smith	err... wait
14:41	justin_smith	no, use cons
14:41	justin_smith	because conj messes with the laziness
14:41	krat0sprakhar	but i want to add more than one elem into teh seq
14:42	krat0sprakhar	(conj [] a b)
14:42	justin_smith	amalloy_ is better than me at explaining this stuff
14:42	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: check out concat
14:42	justin_smith	,(concat [:a :b] (lazy-seq))
14:42	clojurebot	(:a :b)
14:43	justin_smith	concat is alsy lazy
14:43	justin_smith	,(type (concat [:a :b] (lazy-seq)))
14:43	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LazySeq
14:43	justin_smith	haha, alsy
14:43	krat0sprakhar	:D
14:44	krat0sprakhar	ok.. let me give that a shot
14:59	krat0sprakhar	justin_smith: got it! used mapcat to solve it :D
14:59	justin_smith	nice
15:00	krat0sprakhar	thanks a lot
15:16	auser	hello all… anyone here use figwheel/chestnut?
15:17	hellofunk	~anyone
15:17	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
15:18	krat0sprakhar	clojurebot _/\_
15:19	auser	Great… I’m trying out chestnut for the first time and am running into the message “nREPL: No response handler with id nil found “
15:19	auser	Leaving me a bit stumped
15:20	dnolen	auser: you might want to ask in #clojurescript
15:20	auser	good idea dnolen
15:20	hellofunk	auser: i think there is an open issue for that on github, you might want to search there
15:20	dnolen	auser: it's a dedicated channel with helpful people
15:21	Lewix	yo
15:21	auser	good idea hellofunk + dnolen
15:21	krat0sprakhar	hola dnolen
15:21	krat0sprakhar	always wanted to say hi :P
15:23	dnolen	krat0sprakhar: hello!
15:26	mmitchell	i'm using clojure.tools.logging + log4j2. Anyone know how to simply configure the log level at runtime?
15:26	mmitchell	in clojure/repl that is
15:27	justin_smith	mmitchell: clj-logging-config and timbre are two options for that
15:28	justin_smith	mmitchell: there may or may not be something simpler...
15:29	mmitchell	justin_smith: oh! I thought timbre was a pure clojure logging thing, with no support for log4j
15:35	justin_smith	mmitchell: yeah, timbre is a wrapper for java logging, the main thing is allowing runtime reconfig
15:37	mmitchell	justin_smith: perfect - will check it out now. Thanks!
15:38	amalloy	justin_smith: rather than (concat [a b] xs), (list* a b xs)
15:39	krat0sprakhar	amalloy: whats the difference?
15:40	amalloy	krat0sprakhar: well, they both do the same thing, but (concat [a b] xs) does it in a roundabout and slightly more expensive way
15:40	krat0sprakhar	oh ok.. thanks!
15:40	amalloy	(list* a b xs) is the same as (cons a (cons b xs)), which is the most obvious solution to your problem
15:40	krat0sprakhar	one more quick question - the common pattern for lazy-seq is (cons x (lazy-seq ...))
15:40	amalloy	using concat and a vector gets a lot more machinery involved
15:41	krat0sprakhar	can I do (conj (lazy-seq ..) a b )
15:41	krat0sprakhar	?
15:41	amalloy	you can, but don't
15:42	amalloy	like, obviously that is a thing that is possible to do; you can see that by trying it in your repl. it just doesn't produce results that will make you happy
15:42	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: remember, I mentioned earlier that it isn't as lazy as it should be
15:42	krat0sprakhar	as lazy as it should be meaning?
15:42	krat0sprakhar	isnt it either lazy or not lazy?
15:44	mmitchell	justin_smith: do you know if it's possible for timbre to use an existing log4j config file? That probably sounds strange, but we have common log4j config files shared across many different java projects, this is the only clojure one.
15:45	justin_smith	mmitchell: I don't really know, I haven't tried that
15:45	mmitchell	ok np, thanks
15:45	justin_smith	krat0sprakhar: it can force results it shouldn't need to
15:46	krat0sprakhar	oh hmm.. i don't quite understand most of it. but i'll try to use the common pattern more often
16:26	cfleming_	krat0sprakhar: I haven't read the whole thread here, did you get your nREPL ack problem sorted?
16:29	justin_smith	cfleming_: he has an infinite loop at the top level of his main ns
16:29	justin_smith	which would kind of prevent an ack from coming back in time :)
16:29	cfleming	justin_smith: That would do it, yes :)
16:30	cfleming	justin_smith: I was going to suggest increasing his timeout, but I don't think the field accepts +Infinity
16:30	justin_smith	heh
16:32	irctc	hey, does someone know how I can hide the 0, 1, 2 at the bottom of an Incanter boxplot?
16:32	cfleming	whomp: Yes, unfortunately the best way to create a project right now if you want to use lein is on the command line, then import into Cursive
16:32	irctc	http://incanter.org/images/examples/newtheme/box-gamma.png
16:32	{blake}	Is there a practical difference between (use 'ns) and (require '[ns :refer :all])?
16:33	llasram	{blake}: No, in that you should never do either (except maybe in a REPL)
16:33	{blake}	llasram: I am, in fact, doing it in a REPL. =P
16:33	imanc_	are syntax quotes ` and normal quotes ' interchangeable?
16:34	irctc	I can hide the 0, 1, 2 using java interop, (.setVisible (.getDomainAxis (.getPlot aprv)) false), but I lose my x axis labels too
16:34	{blake}	llasram: Though my colleague wrote some code that does a "(use [ns :only [...])". I'm somewhat confused because I've heard here that use is disparaged, if not excactly deprecated.
16:34	llasram	{blake}: Ah, then no :-)
16:35	irctc	(Again, I'm trying to remove the 0,1,2 from charts like this http://incanter.org/images/examples/newtheme/box-gamma.png)
16:35	llasram	{blake}: Yeah -- just now that `require` has `:refer` it can do everything `use` can, so there's no reason to have yet another form
16:35	llasram	irctc: Probably no one here right now uses incanter
16:35	irctc	llasram: oh ok
16:35	{blake}	llasram: So, refer has some additional capability, and use is just baggage.
16:35	llasram	{blake}: right
16:36	{blake}	llasram: Groovy. Thanks!
16:36	{blake}	(inc llasram)
16:36	{blake}	(inc has-been-less-meaningful-than-usual)
16:37	llasram	Alas, poor lazybot
16:37	{blake}	He's gotten REALLY lazy!
16:39	amalloy	man, lazybot has been getting disconnected like every day all week
16:39	amalloy	he has always been broken, but recently he seems more broken
16:39	{blake}	Has someone tried talking to him? Maybe he's having trouble at home.
16:42	amalloy	(inc llasram)
16:42	lazybot	⇒ 48
16:43	{blake}	(inc lazybot)
16:43	lazybot	⇒ 37
16:43	justin_smith	(inc Bronsa)
16:43	lazybot	⇒ 90
16:44	amalloy	(inc inc inc)
16:44	lazybot	⇒ 1
16:44	{blake}	(inc inc)
16:44	lazybot	⇒ 12
16:44	amalloy	SNIPED
16:44	{blake}	damn
16:45	justin_smith	(identity inc inc)
16:45	lazybot	inc inc has karma 1.
16:47	{blake}	(inc Spaces are no barrier to karma.)
16:47	lazybot	⇒ 1
16:47	{blake}	(identity Spaces are no barrier to karma.)
16:47	lazybot	Spaces are no barrier to karma. has karma 1.
16:47	SagiCZ	lol
16:57	ordnungswidrig	(identity 1 karma)
16:57	lazybot	1 karma has karma 0.
16:57	ordnungswidrig	(identity 1 karma)
16:57	lazybot	1 karma has karma 0.
16:57	ordnungswidrig	(inc 1 karma)
16:57	lazybot	⇒ 1
16:57	ordnungswidrig	(identity 1 karma)
16:57	lazybot	1 karma has karma 1.
17:06	justin_smith	(inc ordnunswidrig symmetrischennehcsirtemmys giridiwsnundro nci)
17:06	lazybot	⇒ 1
17:06	jballanc	hey! lazybot's back
17:07	sobel	i assumed german but had to check whether symmetrie wasn't also a clojure lib ;)
17:08	justin_smith	haha
17:08	jballanc	hmm...
17:08	jballanc	(inc 1 amrak sah)
17:08	lazybot	⇒ 1
17:09	jballanc	(identity 1 amrak sah)
17:09	lazybot	1 amrak sah has karma 1.
17:09	jballanc	better
17:18	whomp	how do i get intellij idea to print out stdout to the little window? i have it running (println "Hello world"), but it doesn't display
17:18	SagiCZ	whomp: depends on what you mean by "litte window"
17:18	SagiCZ	if you are running REPL it should print out to the repl output
17:18	whomp	SagiCZ, the window that pops up when i hit "run"
17:19	SagiCZ	that should work too.. it has to be the Console window
17:19	whomp	SagiCZ, currently it says this: /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.8.0_05.jdk/Contents/Home/bin/java -Didea.launcher.port=7534 "-Didea.launcher.bin.path=/Applications/IntelliJ IDEA 14 CE.app/Contents/bin" -Dfile.encoding=UTF-8 -classpath "/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.8.0_05.jdk/Contents/Home/lib/ant-javafx.jar:/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.8.0_05.jdk/Contents/Home/lib/dt.jar:/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.8.0_0
17:19	imanc_	,(take 10 (iterate inc 1))
17:19	whomp	Process finished with exit code 0
17:19	whomp	oh man, sorry guys :)
17:19	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 ...)
17:19	bodie_	anyone using IDEA Cursive?
17:19	SagiCZ	whomp: well then your code is wrong or you are executing a different file then you want to
17:19	SagiCZ	bodie_: yeas
17:20	SagiCZ	*yes
17:20	imanc_	bodie_: trying to - still need to work on it.
17:20	SagiCZ	i have been using it for months.. its amazing
17:20	bodie_	nice
17:20	imanc_	i hear the debugger rocks
17:21	bodie_	IDEA 14 isn't letting me update or install it, not sure why
17:21	SagiCZ	imanc_: its ok but i debug clojure much less than java
17:21	SagiCZ	bodie_: you have to specify new plugin repository acording to the guide
17:22	bodie_	I probably shouldn't be asking nooby questions like this in here ;P
17:22	SagiCZ	bodie_: this is totally the place for noob question.. as long as tbaldridge isnt around
17:22	bodie_	but the plugin install button does nothing after I add the repo... just wondered if anyone else had had that issue
17:22	bodie_	SagiCZ, usually I keep my noob questions to overly convoluted ways to do simple things that functions or macros are already defined for
17:23	sobel	SagiCZ: would you say you debug less clojure because your clojure code is less error prone?
17:23	mfikes	bodie_: Don't know if cfleming has the Cursive mailing archive set up completely yet. There was a rash of emails on what appears to be the same subject recently.
17:24	SagiCZ	sobel: i wouldnt say less error prone.. but i just know whats happening easily.. there is always a very clear path of execution in clojure.. if you write idiomatic clojure.. no need to step through and check the state of every object
17:24	sobel	SagiCZ: gotcha
17:25	bodie_	mfikes, thanks. exactly what I needed to know. I'll give the archive version a shot
17:27	SagiCZ	sobel: on the other hand i must note that the stack traces in clojure tend to be rather cryptic.. but thats what you get for dynamic types and laziness
17:30	tehgeekmeister	i'm running into some really weird issues with some io redirection using future and io/copy
17:31	tehgeekmeister	have two instances of basically this running in parallel: (future (clojure.java.io/copy (:err results) out :buffer-size 1))
17:31	tehgeekmeister	ending up with output like this on some lines eetcchhoe d 'Fetched mmoodduulleess..'
17:31	tehgeekmeister	but then it goes back to normal
17:31	tehgeekmeister	also, it truncates the output mid line after a certain point
17:31	tehgeekmeister	so, seems like race conditions plus timeouts, probably
17:31	tehgeekmeister	anyone have insight that could help?
17:37	cfleming	mfikes: Ugh, no, I got distracted.
17:37	gfredericks	Hypirion: who is "a friend of Gary Fredericks"?
17:37	cfleming	bodie_: Try downloading and manually installing, see https://cursiveclojure.com/userguide/ under Manually installing
17:38	hyPiRion	gfredericks: There was some Clojure meetup you attended, where you said someone came up with (->> foo #())
17:38	cfleming	bodie_: Sorry for the hassle, for some reason the initial install is difficult sometimes.
17:40	sdegutis	tbaldrid_: what's your language called again?
17:40	cfleming	sdegutis: Pixie
17:40	sdegutis	Cool, thanks.
17:41	ibash	Going to leave this question here while I grab a coffee
17:41	ibash	what use cases is clojure good for and what use cases would it not be recommended for?
17:41	{blake}	So, RegEx patterns are...functions?
17:41	ibash	Any good examples of medium size public clojure apps I can explore?
17:41	sdegutis	ibash: it's basically good for anything you'd use Java or Ruby for
17:42	sdegutis	ibash: it's especially good at consumption of large steaming data
17:42	{blake}	I ask because I put a #"/bword/b" in my code and got a "nested function literal" error.
17:42	sdegutis	ibash: but some of us use it in place of Rails
17:43	hiredman_	{blake}: they are not
17:43	hiredman_	,#(#"/bword/b")
17:43	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval25$fn__26 sandbox$eval25$fn__26@61b2c9b6>
17:43	{blake}	hiredman_: OK, I've just screwed something else up then. Thanks!
17:45	{blake}	Ah, I see my problem. How to construct a string for it. You use # to indicate the pattern, but if you need a concatenation of strings, you can't say #(str...) 'cause...well...
17:47	amalloy	{blake}: ##(doc re-pattern)
17:47	lazybot	⇒ "([s]); Returns an instance of java.util.regex.Pattern, for use, e.g. in re-matcher."
17:47	whomp	intellij cursive won't let me type out parentheses when it thinks there's an incorrect arity issue. how can i avoid this?
17:47	amalloy	&(re-pattern (str "a" "b"))
17:47	lazybot	⇒ #"ab"
17:47	{blake}	whomp: Turn off structural editing.
17:48	{blake}	amalloy: Seems like a lot for a single "find this word in a string" issue.
17:48	amalloy	well, feel free to write java.util.regex.Pattern.compile("a" + "b"); instead
17:49	{blake}	I could use .contains, I guess, but that won't do boundaries.
17:49	gfredericks	hyPiRion: I'm convinced you're making this up, but hey who knows
17:49	amalloy	it's literally just one function to turn a string into a pattern
17:49	{blake}	java.util.regex.Pattern.compile(word-known-only-at-runtinme)?
17:50	hyPiRion	{blake}: ##(.matches "foooo" "^fo*$")
17:50	lazybot	⇒ true
17:50	{blake}	##(.matches "anteater,aardvark,antelop" "/bant/b")
17:50	lazybot	⇒ false
17:50	{blake}	##(.matches "anteater,aardvark,antelop" "/bantelope/b")
17:50	lazybot	⇒ false
17:50	{blake}	:-/
17:51	{blake}	##(.matches "anteater,aardvark,antelope" "/bantelope/b")
17:51	lazybot	⇒ false
17:51	{blake}	##(.matches "anteater,aardvark,antelope" "ant")
17:51	lazybot	⇒ false
17:51	amalloy	matches expects an exact match
17:51	{blake}	##(.matches "anteater,aardvark,antelope" "antelope")
17:51	lazybot	⇒ false
17:52	hyPiRion	gfredericks: I may very well be. I remember something about on tooter though, but can't find it. (and afaik TimMc isn't on tooter)
17:52	{blake}	amalloy: Ah. Yeah. I got a list.
17:52	{blake}	##(.contains "anteater,aardvark,antelope" "antelope")
17:52	lazybot	⇒ true
17:52	{blake}	##(.contains "anteater,aardvark,antelope" "ant")
17:52	lazybot	⇒ true
17:52	{blake}	so close
17:52	hyPiRion	{blake}: I thought you meant begin and end of string boundaries, soz.
17:52	amalloy	really like, clojure's regex facilities are really nice, you have re-seq and whatever
17:53	gfredericks	~you \|have\| re-seq and whatever
17:53	clojurebot	In Ordnung
17:53	amalloy	and you're spending a bunch of effort because (re-pattern a b) is unacceptable compared to your desired notation of #(str a b)
17:53	amalloy	re-pattern is just The Way To Do It
17:56	{blake}	,(re-find (re-pattern (str "\\b" "antelope" "\\b")) "aardvark,anteater,antelope")
17:56	clojurebot	"antelope"
17:56	{blake}	Good enough.
17:56	{blake}	(inc re-pattern)
17:56	lazybot	⇒ 1
17:57	amalloy	{blake}: note that if you tire of double-escaping, you can use (str #"\b" "antelope" #"\b")
17:57	amalloy	since Pattern/toString returns the string you would have used to construct the pattern
17:57	{blake}	amalloy: Thanks. Simple situation here but I'm sure it'll re-emerge in the future.
17:58	{blake}	Reader macros are the theme of the day.
18:00	ibash	sdegutis: tell me more about using it for large streaming data
18:00	ibash	we have some streams right now using node.js and highland
18:00	ibash	they’re okay — but they’re may come a time where we rebuild our data import pipeline
18:01	sdegutis	ibash: gtg
18:01	sdegutis	sorry
18:04	cfleming	whomp: The arity issue doesn't affect parens, that's structural editing (paredit), see: https://cursiveclojure.com/userguide/paredit.html
18:05	whomp	cfleming {blake}, ty :)
18:09	tehgeekmeister	do futures timeout?
18:10	tehgeekmeister	like, if nothing's happening in the thread, does it just get killed?
18:10	tehgeekmeister	will the main thread only wait so long?
18:10	amalloy	what do you mean, nothing is happening?
18:10	tehgeekmeister	that is a good question! my thinking was unclear there.
18:13	tehgeekmeister	say i (future (something)), and then there's nothing else in the program
18:13	tehgeekmeister	does the parent thread wait on that thread until it finishes executing, or what?
18:14	amalloy	the jvm shuts down when there are no more threads running (actually no non-daemon threads, but that's not really relevant here)
18:14	whomp	how do i reference the current function i'm in from within it? i want to make a recursive call
18:15	amalloy	whomp: http://stackoverflow.com/q/5626641/625403
18:15	amalloy	tehgeekmeister: clojure complicates things slightly because futures and agents use a thread pool, and its threads sorta sit around for a while after being "done", unless you explicitly close them by calling (shutdown-agents)
18:15	whomp	amalloy, ty
18:16	tehgeekmeister	yeah, i'm kinda at a dead end here unless i run this on linux and strace this
18:17	tehgeekmeister	not sure what's happening. i run a command, run a copy of stderr/stdout in separate threads, and then the output stops half way through a line i know is printed in a single syscall
18:17	tehgeekmeister	when the buffer size is smaller than the size of the string
18:19	hiredman_	tehgeekmeister: I think you mentioned running two threads?
18:19	tehgeekmeister	three, yeah
18:19	hiredman_	is one of them closing out ?
18:19	tehgeekmeister	main, copier for stdout, and copier for stderr
18:19	tehgeekmeister	good point!
18:19	tehgeekmeister	the main one might
18:19	tehgeekmeister	so i should wait for those threads
18:20	tehgeekmeister	i'll try
18:20	hiredman_	just never close out
18:20	tehgeekmeister	it's not explicitly doing so
18:20	tehgeekmeister	so unless it happens implicitly, it's not happening
18:20	hiredman_	ok, that is what I meant
18:22	TimMc	hyPiRion, gfredericks: No, I am not on the Site of Birds. My only contribution was realizing that you could give names to anonymous fns -- the arglists were new to me.
18:24	hyPiRion	hrm, perhaps I'm mixing you two up. It's been some time since it happened.
18:38	tehgeekmeister	so, based on the syscalls it's making, it seems like it's doing a nonblocking check of a thread's status
18:38	tehgeekmeister	and then checking if a a time's been hit
18:39	tehgeekmeister	lots of lines like this: 67796/0x41532c: psynch_cvwait(0x7F863BF25668, 0x100000100, 0x0) = -1 Err#316
18:39	tehgeekmeister	67796/0x41532c: gettimeofday(0x1279BFC90, 0x0, 0x0) = 1423092974 0
18:39	tehgeekmeister	Anyone have some clues based on that?
18:43	tehgeekmeister	hiredman_: just to be clear, you meant i'm good if i don't explicitly close it, right?
18:44	amalloy	tehgeekmeister: i think you are diving too deep too soon into systrace debugging, instead of just like...looking at and/or sharing the code, trying to simplify your program to the smallest possible failing case
18:44	tehgeekmeister	amalloy: might be. i'm better at that approach. i'll give the alternate one a try.
18:44	tehgeekmeister	thanks for calling it out.
18:44	pdlug_	Hi, I'm looking for some feedback on a more idiomatic clojure approach to building up maps, sample code here: https://gist.github.com/pdlug/ec2c6eef8fc51f6b6e40
18:45	pdlug_	What's the best way to move from a multiline map to iteratively building up the map without a bunch of if-let's to leave out nil values?
18:49	justin_smith	pdlug_: what do you mean by leave out nil values? - is it a function that doesn't handle nil?
18:49	justin_smith	or are you just looking to remove nils from the map?
18:50	pdlug_	More for cleaner output, so, optional assoc
18:50	pdlug_	I have a bunch of functions to extract values from XML doc, most are optional, I want to iterate over them, build up a map containing the keys and values from the XML, leaving out the key if nil
18:51	pdlug_	gist I posted above leaves them in if nil, but also just doesn't "look right"
18:51	tehgeekmeister	amalloy: any preferred paste mechanism here?
18:51	tehgeekmeister	i have a repro case that's small
18:51	amalloy	~paste
18:51	clojurebot	paste is https://refheap.com/
18:52	justin_smith	you can remove nils from any map with ##(into {} (map-kv (fn [m k v] (if v (assoc m k v) m)) {} {:a 0 :b nil :c 1 :d nil :e 2}) ; pdlug_
18:52	tehgeekmeister	it has an ssl warning right now?
18:52	tehgeekmeister	nbd for what i'm posting, but not awesome
18:52	amalloy	oh, interseting. that's new
18:52	justin_smith	,(into {} (map-kv (fn [m k v] (if v (assoc m k v) m)) {} {:a 0 :b nil :c 1 :d nil :e 2}) ; pdlug_
18:52	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
18:52	amalloy	Raynes: refheap's ssl cert is expired
18:52	justin_smith	err
18:52	justin_smith	,(into {} (map-kv (fn [m k v] (if v (assoc m k v) m)) {} {:a 0 :b nil :c 1 :d nil :e 2}))
18:52	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: map-kv in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
18:53	tehgeekmeister	https://www.refheap.com/96919 <== this stops early
18:53	tehgeekmeister	and then hangs
18:53	tehgeekmeister	for me it stopped at zygot
18:53	amalloy	oh, interesting. www.refheap.com is fine, but refheap.com isn't. good to know
18:53	justin_smith	,(into {} (reduce-kv (fn [m k v] (if v (assoc m k v) m)) {} {:a 0 :b nil :c 1 :d nil :e 2})) ; doh
18:53	clojurebot	{:a 0, :c 1, :e 2}
18:53	justin_smith	pdlug_: ^
18:53	tehgeekmeister	notably, when i interrupted it, it flushed all the rest of the stream
18:53	amalloy	why are you setting the buffer size at all, tehgeekmeister?
18:54	amalloy	10 seems ludicrously small
18:54	tehgeekmeister	1024 was chunking weirdly
18:54	tehgeekmeister	i really want line buffering
18:54	tehgeekmeister	but i'm trying to get this part done quickly
18:54	amalloy	well you have two different threads writing to the same output stream at the same time
18:54	tehgeekmeister	this is redirecting the real time output of a shell command, so partial lines are painful
18:54	tehgeekmeister	yep, i know
18:54	amalloy	you are gonna get crappy-looking interleaved output regardless of buffer size
18:55	tehgeekmeister	the interleaving i can deal with for the moment
18:55	pdlug_	justin_smith: thanks, I also came up with defining a function "assoc-if" that I used with -> to build up the map without nils
18:55	tehgeekmeister	i could also live with the delay, i guess, too
18:55	tehgeekmeister	i'm probably off track. this was a nice to have addition i started on at like 7 last night. =P
18:56	justin_smith	pdlug_: yeah, that would work too
18:56	amalloy	delay? i don't really understand; you said it was blocking indefinitely, i thought
18:56	tehgeekmeister	well, if there's say 1050 lines of output
18:56	tehgeekmeister	and then a big pause
18:56	tehgeekmeister	err, bytes, sorry
18:57	tehgeekmeister	then the 26 bytes (assuming the default 1024 buffer) at the beginning of the buffer could take a long time to get through
18:58	tehgeekmeister	would probably be better to use core.async and wait for new input on either stream, copy all of that over, and then go back to waiting for any new input
18:58	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: sounds like you need to go into host interop land and control the mode of the pipe or something
18:58	tehgeekmeister	justin_smith: can you provide a bit more context about why you think that?
18:58	amalloy	mmm, indeed. and what about just doing this in not-clojure? like, `cat /usr/share/dict/words 2>&1` is a lot simpler than this
18:59	tehgeekmeister	i'm moving a crappy shell script to clojure, bit by bit
18:59	tehgeekmeister	core goal is to have a good wrapper for packer based build processes
18:59	tehgeekmeister	so, yeah, this is complicated, i agree
19:00	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: on the OS level, at least in *nix, you can control flushing and buffering, including things like no buffering (which is super bad for perf, but low worst case latency) or line buffering where it's flushed on newline or whatever
19:00	tehgeekmeister	but i want a number of benefits from clojure for the higher level stuff, and i'm going to have to shell out to packer at the least, no matter what
19:00	tehgeekmeister	justin_smith: didn't know line buffering was an os level option. you mean stdlib or syscall?
19:01	tehgeekmeister	i can assume nix, this will only run on osx/linux (at least in the near term, for my company)
19:01	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: http://www.pixelbeat.org/programming/stdio_buffering/
19:01	justin_smith	this looks like a decent intro ^
19:01	tehgeekmeister	thanks!
19:02	tehgeekmeister	so, looks like setting buffer size to 0 doesn't do anything special.
19:02	tehgeekmeister	yay no special values!
19:03	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: the c syscall in question is setbuf http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/setbuf.3.html
19:03	tehgeekmeister	awesome! i had not heard of that one.
19:03	tehgeekmeister	also the guide you sent won't load, but the man page will
19:04	justin_smith	heh, OK
19:04	tehgeekmeister	yeah, worth noting that conch returns a buffered stream
19:04	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: oh, I was just reminded from that man page "stderr is always unbuffered by default"
19:04	tehgeekmeister	so there are multiple layers here
19:04	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: oh, is this Process streams?
19:05	tehgeekmeister	yeah, i'm using the conch library
19:05	justin_smith	java.io.Process has options, including "join stout and stderr into one stream" if conch doesn't allow access to that, ditch conch
19:05	justin_smith	err, not io.Process
19:05	justin_smith	lang.Process
19:05	tehgeekmeister	yeah, ideally i'd like to keep them separate for semantics, but i still want to print them joined right
19:05	justin_smith	ahh
19:05	justin_smith	that's trickier
19:06	tehgeekmeister	but for short term, i can be lenient about that
19:06	tehgeekmeister	time to finally really read the conch docs in depth, i guess
19:06	amalloy	me.raynes.conch.low-level/proc gives you direct access to gives you access to the ProcessBuilder constructor directly
19:06	wei	lein uberjar is trying to run my app instead of just compiling it. any ideas on how to troubleshoot this?
19:06	amalloy	and has a :redirect-err option
19:06	justin_smith	wei: don't do anything with side effects at the top level of your ns
19:06	justin_smith	wei: that's always the reason
19:07	justin_smith	wei: if you can't run your ns file without running your app, redesign your ns
19:07	tehgeekmeister	yeah, i'm using low-level too
19:07	hiredman_	wei: clojure runs code as it is loaded, so if you have side effects in top level forms, they will run when you load the code
19:07	amalloy	it looks like me.raynes.conch/run-command accepts :redirect-err as well
19:07	justin_smith	amalloy: cool
19:07	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
19:07	hiredman_	wei: you should put things in functions, and then call those functions from your main function
19:08	tehgeekmeister	wait, i can provide it an output it looks like
19:08	tehgeekmeister	crap
19:08	tehgeekmeister	that's a lot simpler
19:08	tehgeekmeister	i can just have it forward directly on to the parent streams
19:09	amalloy	clojurebot: conch is pretty cool in general
19:09	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
19:10	hiredman_	clojurebot: conch \|does\| stream fusion
19:10	clojurebot	Roger.
19:10	wei	hiredman_ , justin_smith: I don’t appear to have any side-effect code, but guess I need to digging around to do
19:10	wei	does defining a handler count as a side effect?
19:11	amalloy	wei: you probably do something like (def app (run-jetty ...))
19:11	hiredman_	wei: are you starting jetty in a top level form?
19:11	tehgeekmeister	actually, i misread
19:11	wei	http-kit, and I’m starting it from a -main function
19:11	tehgeekmeister	but i'm on a good path now
19:11	tehgeekmeister	thanks so much everyone
19:12	hiredman_	what do you mean by running your app then?
19:12	wei	when I try to build a jar, it’s initiating a postgres connection and failing to find the database
19:13	hiredman_	are you using korma?
19:13	wei	no
19:13	hiredman_	the stacktrace should tell you the file and line where the connection is happening
19:14	hiredman_	maybe you are configuring a connection pool or something
19:15	tehgeekmeister	ah, but ProcessBuilder does support setting a file for each of stdout and stderr, and redirecting stderr to stdout
19:15	tehgeekmeister	how easy would it be for me to run a fork of conch while I work on getting an improvement like that merged in?
19:15	tehgeekmeister	I don't know leiningen well yet.
19:17	wei	hiredman_: at xb.helpers$loading__4958__auto__.invoke(helpers.clj:1)
19:17	wei	does this mean I have side-effect code that’s running as it’s loading the namespace? the line number isn’t helping, unfortunately
19:17	hiredman_	wei: :/ some file helpers.clj is loading is doing it
19:18	amalloy	wei: that's not a stacktrace, it's one line of a stacktrace
19:18	hiredman_	when a file throws an exception on load the stacktraces are not super helpful if I recall, they just point to the (ns ...) form that tried to load the failing file
19:19	wei	the rest of the stacktrace isn’t from my app: https://gist.github.com/yayitswei/e8fc479fc414157d9199
19:20	hiredman_	wei: I would change the ns form in helpers.clj to include :load-verbosely (a flag on :require, if I recall)
19:21	hiredman_	it will print out every file it loads, the last one printed before the error should be the problem
19:21	amalloy	resources.clj:23
19:21	amalloy	is where the database call is
19:22	tehgeekmeister	is the lein-git-deps plugin pretty commonly used, or a bad practice, or what?
19:22	justin_smith	probably a top level def of the db connection or something
19:22	tehgeekmeister	i see it hasn't been updated in a long time
19:22	amalloy	tehgeekmeister: don't use it
19:22	hiredman_	I guess the ns thing got fixed?
19:22	tehgeekmeister	amalloy: should i just make changes locally and install locally?
19:23	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: you can use lein checkouts, or you can clone / lein install locally
19:23	justin_smith	lein checkouts start with a clone + lein install step :)
19:23	tehgeekmeister	i'll look into that, thanks
19:23	amalloy	if you want to use a local fork of a lib, you can edit it and publish to clojars (or just install locally) under a different groupid, like com.tehgeekmeister/conch or whatever
19:23	amalloy	and using checkouts simplifies the install-locally process
19:23	amalloy	justin_smith: shouldn't need to install
19:24	justin_smith	amalloy: checkouts don't work unless you run lein install first
19:24	justin_smith	amalloy: or so I heard
19:24	justin_smith	unless maybe you already have an artifact with that version string maybe
19:24	amalloy	right
19:24	amalloy	and like, if you just want to hack on conch, you can just have a local install with the same version string but different code
19:25	tehgeekmeister	yeah, my intent would totally be to get it merged back in
19:25	justin_smith	indeed, but I find habits like that can lead to terrible bugs and confusion :)
19:25	tehgeekmeister	just trying to figure out how to point to a fork in the mean time
19:25	justin_smith	or maybe I am too scatterbrained for such schemes and others can handle it
19:25	tehgeekmeister	justin_smith: nah, i think you're right, such approaches are scary
19:26	justin_smith	when my local artifact of a given group / version / project is not the global one, and I forget that fact...
19:26	justin_smith	so I tend to defensively alter versions right off the bat
19:29	tehgeekmeister	looks like checkouts work for development
19:29	tehgeekmeister	not for deploy
19:29	tehgeekmeister	well, not cleanly for deploy
19:29	tehgeekmeister	i guess a fork on clojars is the cleanest answer for until a pull is merged
19:29	tehgeekmeister	aight
19:30	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: you can deploy, a checkout is just a symlink to the real project dir
19:30	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: on the project dir side, it has no way to know it is even a checkout
19:30	justin_smith	(since symlinks are one way)
19:30	tehgeekmeister	i may not understand the deploy process well enough to know how that works out
19:30	tehgeekmeister	in fact, i certainly don't
19:31	tehgeekmeister	lots to learn right now
19:31	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: if you are in the dir of the checked out project, you are no longer strictly in a subdir of the other project
19:31	tehgeekmeister	yes, i mean if i want to package up this whole thing
19:31	tehgeekmeister	and use it on a server
19:31	tehgeekmeister	in production
19:31	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: then yeah, you deploy each checkout as a separate project
19:31	tehgeekmeister	i see
19:31	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: or make an uberjar of the top level one
19:31	tehgeekmeister	k
19:32	tehgeekmeister	cool
19:32	tehgeekmeister	this is a good enough path
19:32	justin_smith	tehgeekmeister: unless you need the libs to be published...
19:32	justin_smith	the uberjar will pull in the stuff from the subdirs
19:32	tehgeekmeister	it'll be published later
19:32	tehgeekmeister	for now, just working is sufficient
19:33	wei	found it! turns out the side-effect code was on line 23, just as it says in the second line of the stacktrace. thanks for your help hiredman_ justin_smith amalloy
19:34	justin_smith	wei: was it creating a db connection as a top level def?
19:40	wei	justin_smith: I was preloading some system accounts into a map. forgot about that :P
19:40	justin_smith	aha, that would do it
19:40	wei	my solution was just to wrap it in delay
19:40	justin_smith	wei: and easy fix for that is a delay
19:40	justin_smith	haha
19:41	wei	at some point i want to check out the component framework, but it looks heavyweight for my needs at the moment
19:57	julianleviston	I have a question about the nature of apply and reduce… are they semantically identical, but does apply consume stack space whereas reduce does not?
19:57	hiredman_	apply is not a fold
19:58	julianleviston	hiredman_: but are they sematically equivalent?
19:58	wei	is there any way to get the current stacktrace without throwing an error?
19:58	amalloy	julianleviston: they are totally different; for some functions, such as +, they happen to do the same thing
19:58	hiredman_	julianleviston: no reduce is a fold
19:58	amalloy	http://stackoverflow.com/q/3153396/625403
19:58	tehgeekmeister	how do i require part of a library from lein repl inside that library, when I'm editing it?
19:58	hiredman_	,(reduce cons nil (range 10))
19:58	julianleviston	hiredman_: could you rephrase that?
19:58	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
19:58	tehgeekmeister	can't get this to work in general
19:58	tehgeekmeister	sometimes by luck
19:58	tehgeekmeister	but not in general
19:58	hiredman_	,(reduce conj nil (range 10))
19:58	clojurebot	(9 8 7 6 5 ...)
19:58	hiredman_	blarge
19:58	hiredman_	,(apply conj nil (range 10))
19:58	clojurebot	(9 8 7 6 5 ...)
19:58	hiredman_	damn it clojure
19:59	amalloy	chuckle
19:59	hiredman_	,(reduce (fn [a b] (cons b a)) nil (range 10))
19:59	clojurebot	(9 8 7 6 5 ...)
19:59	hiredman_	,(apply (fn [a b] (cons b a)) nil (range 10))
19:59	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (11) passed to: sandbox/eval123/fn--124>
19:59	julianleviston	amalloy: thanks… I’m just trying to work out if I can change my apply to a reduce….
20:00	hiredman_	apply applies a function to a list of arguments, reduce folds a function over an accumulator and each value from a collection
20:00	julianleviston	I have this: (apply merge-with (partial merge-with min) (map some-function somecoll) someothercoll)
20:00	amalloy	julianleviston: if you have an apply that's working, there's no reason to change it to a reduce
20:01	julianleviston	(with some more parens on the end ;-))
20:01	julianleviston	amolloy well I have a feeling it’s slowing things by consuming too much stack space
20:01	amalloy	julianleviston: your feeling is nonsense
20:01	amalloy	don't worry about that
20:01	julianleviston	amalloy: oh ok good :)
20:02	julianleviston	amalloy: I need to time it again… I had a few redundant bits of code that I removed but I haven’t timed it since.
20:02	julianleviston	and the apply doesn’t feel right to me.
20:04	amalloy	(apply merge-with m ms) is a pretty common thing
20:04	amalloy	i expect it's implemented as a reduce under the hood, so the difference really is just a single function call
20:04	julianleviston	amalloy: cool beans :)
20:05	julianleviston	amalloy: merge is, yeah.
20:05	julianleviston	(when (some identity maps) (reduce1 #(conj (or %1 {}) %2) maps))
20:29	justin_smith	julianleviston: ##((fnil conj {}) nil {:a 0})
20:29	lazybot	⇒ {:a 0}
20:34	julianleviston	justin_smith: what does ## do?
20:35	gfredericks	it triggers ##'lazybot
20:35	lazybot	⇒ lazybot
20:36	julianleviston	ah… inline lazybot! huzzah :)
20:36	gfredericks	###'first
20:36	lazybot	⇒ #'clojure.core/first
20:36	julianleviston	I wonder if it’s ##’just for this form or the rest of the sentence?
20:36	julianleviston	(sigh curly quotes)
20:36	gfredericks	haha
20:38	julianleviston	stupid mac. Apparently I don’t have control over that in this IRC client. LOL fail.
20:38	julianleviston	oh well
20:39	julianleviston	i wonder if ##`it is one form only
20:39	lazybot	⇒ clojure.core/it
20:39	julianleviston	ok cool.
20:39	gfredericks	,(read-string "hey okay")
20:39	clojurebot	hey
20:40	julianleviston	justin_smith: how come you were telling me that form?
20:40	dah	brew install irssi # ;)
20:54	julianleviston	is this a terrible way to result in a vector of items none of which are nil? (filter (complement nil?) (flatten [(association-kwd item)]))
20:55	julianleviston	should I just be using (remove nil? (concat … or something?
20:55	ticking	remove nil? would probablu be more idiomatic
20:55	amalloy	i don't understand the goal, but that is a terrible way to do it, yeah
20:55	amalloy	association-kwd returns...what? a seq of things?
20:56	julianleviston	amalloy: (association-kwd item) returns a coll of integers.
20:56	tehgeekmeister	if i'm in a scope where I can reference ProcessBuilder directly, how do I refer to ProcessBuilder.Redirect (a nested class) in clojure?
20:56	amalloy	import ProcessBuilder$Redirect
20:56	ticking	julianleviston: then why would you flatten it?
20:56	tehgeekmeister	amalloy: have to import, can't just reference it directly somehow?
20:56	tehgeekmeister	I only need it in one place
20:57	amalloy	tehgeekmeister: sure, you can. foo.bar.whatever.ProcessBuilder$Redirect
20:57	amalloy	it's just an ordinary class with a funny-looking name
20:57	tehgeekmeister	cool, thanks!
20:57	amalloy	yeah, it sounds like you just want (remove nil? (association-kwd ...))
20:57	julianleviston	ticking: good question… it might also return a single integer sorry
20:57	ticking	julianleviston: so it might return a single integer or a collection?
20:57	julianleviston	ticking: association-kwd can return an int, or a vec of ints.
20:57	julianleviston	ticking: apologies, yes.
20:57	ticking	julianleviston: did you write it?
20:58	julianleviston	ticking: sadly, yes. :)
20:58	amalloy	julianleviston: change it to always return a vec of ints
20:58	amalloy	it's pretty gross to return one or the other, because it makes the client code do stupid stuff, as you're now discovering
20:58	ticking	yeah I would agree with amalloy on that
20:58	julianleviston	amalloy: erm… it’s not one thing, tho...
20:58	ticking	julianleviston: how so?
20:58	julianleviston	amalloy: association-kwd might be “block_id” or it might be “block_ids"
20:59	julianleviston	ticking: it’s looking up data in a map… some of which is has-many, some of which is belongs-to relationship data
21:00	julianleviston	amalloy: so…. belongs-to [5] wouldn’t make sense.
21:00	ticking	julianleviston: how is that determinded?
21:00	julianleviston	ticking: I don’t follow, sorry…
21:00	ticking	wether or not it is block-id or block-ids?
21:01	julianleviston	it’s depetrmined by the nature of the relationship of other data to that map.
21:01	ticking	like?
21:01	julianleviston	this fn maps over all the relevant relationship association data and gets it.
21:01	julianleviston	and collects it into a single seq
21:01	julianleviston	and then goes off and calls an API requesting it
21:02	julianleviston	{:a_id 5 :b_ids [10 9 8] :c_id nil} … run fn on it… -> [5 10 9 8]
21:03	ticking	is the first thing really a map?
21:03	ticking	because it has duplicate keys
21:04	ticking	ah no sorry
21:04	julianleviston	ticking: huh?
21:04	ticking	I misread
21:04	julianleviston	k
21:04	ticking	how is that map generated?
21:04	tehgeekmeister	is there a way to get at the underlying files behind out etc?
21:04	julianleviston	ticking: I don’t know how that’s relevant
21:04	tehgeekmeister	turns out they're PrintWriters
21:04	tehgeekmeister	I need a file subclass
21:04	tehgeekmeister	and PrintWriter doesn't let you get the file it's attached to
21:05	ticking	julianleviston: I'm trying to figure out it you can fix this abomination of a datastructure ;P
21:05	tehgeekmeister	oh, i bet java can do this
21:06	julianleviston	ticking: i’m not too sure the data structure is the problem ;-)
21:06	amalloy	tehgeekmeister: they might not be attached to a file at all
21:06	ticking	julianleviston: (remove nil? (flatten (keys that-horrible-list-thing))) is how I would do it when I couldn't change the data
21:06	amalloy	printwriters in general, that is
21:06	tehgeekmeister	yeah, seems like System.out is a stream, it looks like
21:06	julianleviston	ticking: I just want a function that will take a collection, or item… and filter out nils and always return a collection.
21:07	julianleviston	ticking: which is what I have.
21:07	tehgeekmeister	Basically, there is no easy and great way to do this, it seems. But there are acceptable ways, at least.
21:07	ticking	,(remove nil? (flatten (keys {:a_id 5 :b_ids [10 9 8] :c_id nil})))
21:07	clojurebot	(:c_id :b_ids :a_id)
21:07	ticking	,(remove nil? (flatten (vals {:a_id 5 :b_ids [10 9 8] :c_id nil})))
21:07	julianleviston	ticking: erm… it’s not a horrible thing. It’s just a map… which I’m calling a key on… the only “horrible” thing is that the function doesn’t know if the return val of calling the key will be a coll or an item
21:07	clojurebot	(10 9 8 5)
21:08	ticking	julianleviston: yeah exactly
21:08	ticking	julianleviston: I'd fix that
21:08	julianleviston	ticking: yeah, I already have code that works… I just wanted to know if there was a better way to do it…
21:08	julianleviston	ticking: which is impossible to fix. :P
21:08	ticking	julianleviston: yeah fix that map and make it always return vectors
21:08	julianleviston	ticking: its very nature is that I’m trying to collate a disparate set of data.
21:08	julianleviston	ticking: but vectors make no sense for some keys.
21:09	julianleviston	ticking: it’s like this: {:cat-names [“fred”] :eye-color “blue”} … now… I want a coll of cat names and their eye colours...
21:10	julianleviston	ticking: “Just change eye colour so it’s a collection”
21:10	julianleviston	ticking: see what I mean?
21:10	ticking	julianleviston: no because I'd argue that an entity with a single id is just the :ids [id] special case for the true multi :ids case.
21:11	ticking	julianleviston: as you want them in a single collection afterwards they are obviously the samee thing
21:11	julianleviston	ticking: if I did that, I’ve have to rearchitect pretty much every function that deals with single ids… which isn’t good. Trust me, I know what I’m doing.
21:11	ticking	because a seq of ("fred" blue) makes no sense
21:11	julianleviston	ticking: THIS function is the exception, not the other way round. :)
21:12	ticking	julianleviston: still looks broken to me though
21:13	julianleviston	ticking: this data comes from a REST endpoint… and it doesn’t look broken to me… standard has-many and belongs-to relationship data as far as I can see
21:14	julianleviston	the only thing with this fn is, I can’t work out why it’s taking so long.
21:15	julianleviston	430 ms in some invocations in cljs for a few hundred items.
21:17	julianleviston	ticking: thanks for your attention, tho.
21:18	ticking	is association-kwd a keyword or a fn?
21:18	ticking	performance prblem could be in there
21:19	julianleviston	it’s a keyword
21:19	ticking	flatten is not the fastest fn though
21:20	ticking	is your collection of the form you posted above ({:a_id 5 :b_ids [10 9 8] :c_id nil}) or a collection of maps
21:20	julianleviston	I’m doing (apply (merge-with (partial merge-with min) (map (reduce (….))))
21:20	ticking	that looks expensive
21:20	julianleviston	ticking: yeah!
21:21	ticking	how does (apply (merge-with (partial merge-with min) (map (reduce (….)))) and (complement nil?) (flatten [(association-kwd item)])) interplay?
21:21	julianleviston	ticking: the map is of the form I posted for the inner reduce that has that call to (remove nil? (flatten [(association-kwd item]))… (the bit I was asking about)
21:22	julianleviston	ticking: the latter is inside the inner reduce
21:22	ticking	so the entire code is
21:22	ticking	(apply (merge-with (partial merge-with min) (map (reduce (filter (complement nil?) (flatten [(association-kwd item)]))))))?
21:22	julianleviston	ticking: erm… I can’t paste it here coz it’s too big. It has a 10 line let block inside it (…)
21:23	tehgeekmeister	found the potential answer to my questions here! https://clojuredocs.org/clojure.core/future
21:23	ticking	julianleviston: tbh this sounds horribly broken
21:23	julianleviston	ticking: while that’s an analysis I can appreciate and possibly even agree with, I’m not sure how it helps me to improve its quality. :)
21:24	ticking	julianleviston: can you post the code in a gist
21:24	ticking	julianleviston: or describe what you're trying to achieve
21:24	ticking	julianleviston: the data that goes in and the data that's supposed to come out is probably the most helpfull
21:25	julianleviston	ticking: yeah, the context… the only thing is it’s quite varied and complex but I’ll post the code in a bin
21:25	julianleviston	ticking: here y’are: https://gist.github.com/JulianLeviston/f5d26f6ec4a3c4813131
21:26	whomp	can i give a transient a starting capacity, so that it doesn't have to keep growing?
21:26	julianleviston	ticking: i’ll try to get you some data for it, too...
21:27	amalloy	whomp: no, just trust in the holy wisdom of rich that transients will perform well
21:27	ticking	whomp: I don't thin so, a transient should still be a trie that just gets updated in place
21:27	julianleviston	ticking: actually, it’s too hard because there are two or three chunks of data I’d have to post…
21:27	julianleviston	ticking: I realise that’s no help…
21:29	whomp	thx guys, sorry rich
21:29	julianleviston	ticking: what it does is quite complicated… it is gathering a set of ids to retrieve from the API endpoint… based on a set of associations and a set of depth maps… which are arbitrarily described… (ie how deep I want it to automatically load the data).
21:29	ticking	julianleviston: can there both be an :id and :ids at the same time?
21:29	julianleviston	ticking: depending on where you mean… yes.
21:29	julianleviston	ticking: and no.
21:30	julianleviston	association-kwd will only be gathering either an id or a coll of ids. Never both.
21:30	ticking	I was thinking always doing (conj (:id item) (:ids item))
21:31	julianleviston	ticking: conj takes a coll first doesn’t it?
21:31	julianleviston	ticking: hm.
21:31	julianleviston	,(conj 1 [500])
21:31	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentCollection>
21:31	julianleviston	,(conj [500] 1)
21:31	clojurebot	[500 1]
21:31	ticking	uh yeah sorry
21:31	clojurebot	Huh?
21:31	julianleviston	ticking: that’s a bit disturbing.
21:32	ticking	sorry it's 3:30 am over here
21:32	julianleviston	ticking: all good.
21:37	ticking	julianleviston: (or coll {}) is not needed btw
21:38	ticking	,(assoc (or nil {}) :a 1)
21:38	clojurebot	{:a 1}
21:38	ticking	,(assoc nil :a 1)
21:38	clojurebot	{:a 1}
21:38	julianleviston	ticking: nice. Thanks.
21:41	ticking	julianleviston: what does calculate depth do?
21:41	sdegutis	Are there any plans to separate the ClojureScript compiler from the JVM?
21:41	julianleviston	ticking: I think I’ll go for one of the larger bottlenecks instead. Shaving 1 second off the request isn’t going to help THAT much.
21:41	ticking	julianleviston: you could probably put the mergin into the reduce step
21:42	julianleviston	ticking: calculate depth works on a depth map, which is pairs of model-collection-kwds and ints representing how deep the current step of loading is at...
21:43	julianleviston	ticking: by reducing the ints.. until they get to 0.
21:43	ticking	julianleviston: the main problem seems to be many iterations, so I'd try to do as much of that in a tight loop
21:43	ticking	julianleviston: hrm
21:43	ticking	julianleviston: It's really hard to visualize what it all does
21:44	julianleviston	ticking: I know, isn’t it! :)
21:44	julianleviston	ticking: it’s hard enough even for me, with the data...
21:44	ticking	it seems overcomplicated though :/
21:44	julianleviston	ticking: it took me about 30 mins to write that function.
21:44	julianleviston	ticking: I agree
21:45	ticking	it doesn't have to be that complicated though
21:45	ticking	for example calculate-depth returns a tuple as it seems
21:45	justin_smith	oh, someone was asking about removing keys for nil vals, and I just realized this is much better: ##(into {} (filter second {:a 0 :b nil :c 1 :d nil :e 2 :f nil :g 3}))
21:45	lazybot	⇒ {:e 2, :g 3, :c 1, :a 0}
21:46	julianleviston	ticking: actually, calculate-depth returns a map
21:46	ticking	julianleviston: does it have side effects? it looks like it doesn't really return a depth
21:47	ticking	julianleviston: but that would do (assoc coll {:foo :bar})
21:48	justin_smith	conj would make sense there, or merge
21:50	julianleviston	ticking: haha sorry… yeah, calculate-depth returns a seq of ids interleaved with depth ints
21:51	julianleviston	ticking: so… (103 5 203 5 999 2) etc
21:51	ticking	ah
21:51	julianleviston	ticking: it looks like I need to pull it apart and simplify it, I think…
21:51	ticking	julianleviston: returning a map would make more sense
21:51	julianleviston	ticking: if I can’t even reason about it myself easily, something’s wrong, huh.
21:52	ticking	then you could do (update-in coll [item-model-coll-kwd] merge (calculate-depth foo))
21:52	julianleviston	ticking: even though I’m calling (apply assoc coll return-value-from-calculate-depth) ?
21:52	julianleviston	ticking: oh neat.
21:53	ticking	will behave slightly different though when overriding keys
21:54	ticking	the above will actually keep existing keys instead of overriding them
21:56	dweave	how do i eval with clojurebot
21:56	julianleviston	ticking: shouldn’t I use conj then?
21:57	julianleviston	d4gg4d: ##”you can do this”
21:57	julianleviston	d4gg4d: ##`(lol)
21:57	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/lol)
21:57	julianleviston	,(quote or this)
21:57	clojurebot	or
21:57	ticking	julianleviston: if you return a map and want to add all keys to the old one you have to use merge
21:58	ticking	but merge will override left to right
21:58	ticking	right gets kept
21:58	julianleviston	ticking: yeah, I know
21:59	dweave	##`(+ 1 1)
21:59	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/+ 1 1)
21:59	julianleviston	##(+ 1 1)
21:59	lazybot	⇒ 2
21:59	dweave	##(+ 1 1)
21:59	lazybot	⇒ 2
22:00	julianleviston	,(:or {:this :works :too :or :hooray!})
22:00	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Map literal must contain an even number of forms>
22:00	julianleviston	fail
22:00	julianleviston	ticking: yeah, that didn’t work too well…
22:06	dweave	how are other commands run against lazybot?
22:06	dweave	such as “wiki”
22:08	amalloy	$wiki clojure
22:08	lazybot	[Clojure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clojure
22:08	dweave	ahaa
22:08	Lewix	questions: How to load file in the repl and refresh it as needed (load-file path seems to run once). How to run a particular file from the command line without having to use project.clj
22:09	julianleviston	Lewix: lein has try
22:09	julianleviston	Lewix: and :reload can be given to require
22:10	julianleviston	Lewix: you can call clojure jars like ordinary java ones, assuming you’ve built one, too.
22:42	Lewix	julianleviston: I didn't get it but thanks. I'll figure later
22:43	Lewix	amalloy: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8205209/why-argument-list-as-arrayseq - I don't understand your answer, can you please elaborate. why would it be impossible if & args were required to be a vector
22:45	amalloy	Lewix: i mean, you can try it yourself, by taking that function definition and replacing (first args) with (first vec args)
22:45	amalloy	er, (first (vec args))
22:45	amalloy	if you still need further clarification after that, please ask on SO, not in IRC: if one of my answers is not clear enough, i'd rather it be fixed for everyone and not just you
22:54	Lewix	amalloy: I thought that's what i was doing by asking in the public channel of irc and not in private. Also, making a SO account just for that is overkill but thank you
22:55	amalloy	Lewix: well, fair enough
22:57	amalloy	Lewix: vectors are concrete, eager, and finite
22:57	amalloy	so you can't have an infinite arglist if you use vectors
22:57	amalloy	if you only require a seq, you can use anything seqable as an arglist, including an infinite lazy seq
23:00	Lewix	amalloy: thank you. It makes sense
23:00	Lewix	amalloy: is an ArraySeq an infinite lazsy seq?
23:01	amalloy	no, it's a seq wrapper around a java array
23:02	amalloy	if you call a function "explicitly" like (f x), your args will generally be an ArraySeq
23:02	amalloy	but if you apply it to some other seq, like (apply f xs), then your args will be whatever that other seq was
23:03	amalloy	,(map (partial apply (fn [& args] (class args))) [[1] (range 2) '(a b) '{a b}])
23:03	clojurebot	(clojure.lang.PersistentVector$ChunkedSeq clojure.lang.ChunkedCons clojure.lang.PersistentList clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap$Seq)
23:03	Lewix	,(type ((fn [& args] args) 1 2))
23:03	clojurebot	clojure.lang.ArraySeq
23:05	Lewix	amalloy: I have a hard time understanding why it's an ArraySeq and yet we cannot use a finite seq such as vectors
23:05	Lewix	(I should probably read more on the topic)
23:06	amalloy	Lewix: this is the same basic problem as what you were talking about the other day, why things require just seqs instead of requiring a specific seq type, such as a list
23:06	amalloy	it's fine to use any specific concrete type as the arglist to a function, including vectors
23:06	amalloy	what's not fine is requiring that be the only type, by guaranteeing that function args are always a vector
23:07	amalloy	in real life, args often are ArraySeq, but that's not guaranteed; they can be something else instead
23:10	Lewix	amalloy: ok thanks. I'll think about all that - it's helpful