#clojure – 2014-11-02

2014-11-02

12:14	justin_smith	bonus: I found out all about their amateur anime skills / interests
12:15	justin_smith	which were of course totally irrelevant to my question about their code
12:15	mi6x3m	of course
12:15	mi6x3m	another feature justin_smith would be to force all users to select a license
12:15	mi6x3m	or enter a non-empty license text
12:16	mi6x3m	or set a default license for github code or something
12:17	justin_smith	I have heard of "implicit license" to copy and modify examples (ie. anything from a manual or educational book) without needing explicit permission. I wonder if that [should / does / would if challenged in court] extend to gists on github or snippets on refheap etc.
12:18	mi6x3m	I think stackoverflow has an implicit license
12:18	mi6x3m	not sure though
12:19	justin_smith	well, if stackoverflow declares it, it isn't implicit - though it is implicitly granted by the snippet author when posting something
12:19	justin_smith	I mean in a legally binding even if nothing is declared kind of sense
12:20	justin_smith	like - nobody would sue you for a sentence in a book that was suspiciously similar or even identical to an example in a grammar or linguistics text
12:22	mi6x3m	justin_smith: not about court cases in the most cases, just a matter of mutual respect I guess
12:22	mi6x3m	I could've just taken it like that
12:22	mi6x3m	but I know the hussle it takes to write it, so
12:22	justin_smith	fair enough
12:23	justin_smith	mi6x3m: I spend a lot of my time writing code that is implicitly fair use (SO answers, helping people with code examples here)
12:24	mi6x3m	justin_smith: well I think this would be clear to any judge everywhere that people take your advices and implement them in good faith :) it's kinda the whole idea
12:24	mi6x3m	I do get your point, but this implicitness is missing almost everywhere
12:26	justin_smith	and don't even get me started on the semantic overloading of "license" as "license to modify and distribute" (open source) vs. "license to use until we change our minds" (corporate software)
12:26	justin_smith	I mean the latter is kind of an orwellian mangling of what license should mean imho
12:27	justin_smith	"when you enter our country you implicitly accept the freedom to do things that are within our quite restrictive laws, and because you accepted that limited freedom we declare the right to behead you if we decide to change the laws or think you may have broken them"
12:28	mi6x3m	well you normally have some "sane" rule as to past arrangments
12:28	justin_smith	right, I am just nitpicking a sleazy word choice
12:31	mi6x3m	justin_smith: I'm afraid the list of dependency macros is not obtainable through analyzer
12:32	justin_smith	mi6x3m: I am 100% certain it is possible. I am also sure it is not easy.
12:32	mi6x3m	:D
12:32	justin_smith	tools.analyzer will break the syntax tree down to a very low level, and macro information could be extracted from this. But it would take some work.
12:35	mi6x3m	justin_smith: your idea of using eastwood was promising but it wouldn't tell you of unused vars
12:36	justin_smith	unused vars, or unused namespaces?
12:37	mi6x3m	justin_smith: vars
12:38	justin_smith	I don't understand. My thought was that you have a list of namespaces that can be used, require all of them in the namespace you analyze (along with the provided code) and then remove all the ones from the list that don't actually get referenced at all.
12:39	justin_smith	perhaps I don't really understand what you are doing
12:39	mi6x3m	justin_smith: I have a namespaces such as example.browser
12:40	mi6x3m	it holds a list of examples (each example is a function returning a GUI widget)
12:40	mi6x3m	the examples are run in a common viewer
12:40	mi6x3m	for each example the user can select "Source!" and a window holding the standalone program source for this example is shown
12:40	mi6x3m	it's a single namespace holding everything to run this 1 example without the common viewer
12:41	mi6x3m	and generated dynamically from the dependency graph of the example defn
12:42	mi6x3m	I have everything lest the dependent macros
12:42	Bronsa	mi6x3m: if you can give me an example input and the expected output I can help you with using t.a.jvm
12:42	justin_smith	because what you end up looking at has already been macroexpanded
12:43	justin_smith	the cavalry has arrived!
12:43	Bronsa	mi6x3m: the good news is that the macroexpander is pluggable in t.a + the macroexpansion steps are saved in the AST
12:58	roelof	if I have this function (and (contains? a-seq element) (nil? element)) and this input :a {:a nil :b 2}) why do I get false instead of true ?
12:58	justin_smith	roelof: contains checks for keys, not vals
12:59	justin_smith	oh wait
12:59	justin_smith	you are checking if :a is nil
12:59	roelof	so contains does not do this : contains? {a: nil :b 2} a: ??
12:59	justin_smith	but you want to check if (get a-seq :a) is nil
13:00	justin_smith	roelof: I misinterpreted, sorry
13:00	roelof	oke, so the second part is wrong
13:00	justin_smith	yes, the coll contains :a
13:00	roelof	no problem
13:00	justin_smith	also, a-seq is a bad name in that context
13:00	justin_smith	,(seq? {})
13:00	clojurebot	false
13:00	roelof	and I want to check if a: has the value of nil ?
13:01	justin_smith	:a, but yeah
13:01	justin_smith	(nil? (get a-seq elt))
13:01	roelof	oke, I see what i did wrong. Thanks
13:03	justin_smith	the deeper problem with the name a-seq there, is that contains? does not work on seqs at all
13:03	justin_smith	or at least not in any useful way
13:03	roelof	oke, how can I name the variable better ?
13:04	justin_smith	a-map maybe?
13:04	justin_smith	or if you also want to use vectors with numeric keys, a-lookup
13:05	justin_smith	,(and (contains? [:a nil :b] 1) (nil? (get [:a nil :b] 1)))
13:05	clojurebot	true
13:05	roelof	justin_smith: thanks , I will change that
13:12	justin_smith	roelof: this is a sensetive issue to me right now, because I am working on a codebase that is not to me (lazybot) and my biggest problem is knowing what kind of data structures the code is operating on
13:22	mi6x3m	(inc Bronsa)
13:23	justin_smith	$ping
13:23	mi6x3m	this is a miracle
13:23	roelof	justin_smith: no problem . IM here the learn and feedback is always welcome
13:23	justin_smith	mi6x3m: awesome
13:23	justin_smith	out of curiosity, what does the solution look like?
13:26	jmnoz	is M-x cider-eval-last-sexp in Emacs supposed to work in org-mode source code blocks containing clojure?
13:27	justin_smith	jmnoz: I think the problem is cider wants to know what namespace the code is in
13:28	justin_smith	jmnoz: how are you using cider and org together - are you using org babel clojure?
13:28	jmnoz	justin_smith: yup
13:29	justin_smith	the docs mention using C-c C-c to eval the current defun, but don't say what function that invokes
13:29	justin_smith	I doubt it is cider-eval-last-sexp though
13:32	jmnoz	justin_smith: for me C-c C-c evals the entire code block
13:32	jmnoz	it's bound to org-ctrl-c-ctrl-c-hook
13:34	justin_smith	jmnoz: ahh, so you have multiple top level forms in one block, of course
13:34	jmnoz	yeah
13:34	justin_smith	jmnoz: in situations like that, I like to run M-x describe-mode and see what key bindings are there
13:35	justin_smith	there is a lot of noise but you can try to jump to the relevant minor modes
13:35	jmnoz	ok, good tip, thanks
13:37	jmnoz	I can of course use C-c ' and eval single sexps from there but it would be handy to eval single sexps from org-mode.
13:41	justin_smith	jmnoz: check out the file ob-keys.el
13:41	justin_smith	the key binding creation code is very readable, and may contain something usable
13:41	jmnoz	cheers
13:41	justin_smith	for example org-babel-execute-subtree looks promising
13:42	jmnoz	a subtree is something else I'm afraid
13:43	justin_smith	oh, and I see h (aka C-c h) is org-babel-describe-bindings
13:43	justin_smith	jmnoz: oh yeah, they mean a subtree of org
13:43	Bronsa	justin_smith: http://sprunge.us/HBGN?clj
13:43	justin_smith	not a subtree of your code
13:43	justin_smith	of course
13:43	justin_smith	Bronsa: nice
13:45	jmnoz	any idea why cider-eval-region wouldn't work?
13:45	jmnoz	on the selected region, from org-mode
13:46	jmnoz	I get "error in process filter: Beginning of buffer."
13:46	justin_smith	jmnoz: my guess is because cider expects to be able to find the ns form when you run that
13:46	justin_smith	it hits the beginning of the buffer when scanning up the file looking for that ns form
13:46	justin_smith	(my guess)
13:46	jmnoz	okay thanks
13:47	justin_smith	jmnoz: there is also a #clojure-emacs channel, where the cider devs hang out, btw. Some of them don't hang out here.
13:47	jmnoz	oh excellent
14:28	rubber_duck	how do I annotate polymorphic functions with core.typed defn macro ?
14:29	rubber_duck	ie. how do I get the equivalent of : (ann foo (All [T] [T -> T]))
14:31	bbloom_	it's a real bummer that definterface doesn't allow extends :-(
14:31	bbloom_	would eliminate a surprising amount of type hints (read: casts) in this project i've got here
14:32	Bronsa	bbloom_: I'm curious, why are you using definterface rather than defprotocol?
14:34	bbloom_	Bronsa: i need interfaces for interop, so i can't use extend after the type's been constructed
14:34	bbloom_	Bronsa: i realize that defprotocol defines an interface too, but this way prevents me from accidentally relying on the generated protocol functions
14:35	Bronsa	bbloom_: well the generated interface is documented, it's not like it's an implementation detail
14:36	Bronsa	bbloom_: ah ok, so are protocol functions too slow for your use case?
14:36	bbloom_	Bronsa: yeah. i know i can just ignore them, but i don't need them, so why generate them?
14:36	Bronsa	sure
14:37	bbloom_	i want java-friendly names too (camelCase), so definterface makes my intentions clear, rather than having a defprotocol with dashed-names
14:41	Bronsa	gee core_proxy.clj and genclass.clj are so bad
14:42	bbloom_	what about them?
14:52	csd_	Is Mastering Clojure Macros worth buying?
14:53	justin_smith	Raynes: what do you think of supplementing the :default multimentod in irclj/process so that if the keyword of the event has no matching found hook, it instead fires the hook called :default?
14:53	justin_smith	*multimethod
14:56	justin_smith	or perhaps instead let the user define a callback that should be called for any event type that they don't have an explicit callback for, now that I think about it
15:10	dlite	hey all :)
15:10	dlite	I heard that this group is damn good... umm some guy wrote it on a forum .. just dropped by to see if it is ..
15:27	justin_smith	hello
15:47	benmoss	anyone familiar with Jersey/Jackson understand how I might use this method from Clojure? http://socrata.github.io/soda-java/apidocs/com/socrata/api/Soda2Consumer.html#query(java.lang.String, com.socrata.model.soql.SoqlQuery, com.sun.jersey.api.client.GenericType)
15:48	benmoss	specifically the passing of the GenericType instance that is supposed to be how it hydrates the result
15:49	cbryan	Probably want to use reify or proxy
15:49	justin_smith	benmoss: how does one normally get an instance of GenericType?
15:50	justin_smith	oh, it's a list of GenericType isn't it
15:51	benmoss	i dont entirely understand how to read that signature
15:51	justin_smith	it's a collection of things that are GenericType
15:51	justin_smith	https://jersey.java.net/nonav/apidocs/1.5/jersey/com/sun/jersey/api/client/GenericType.html
15:52	benmoss	in the Java example this library provides it’s https://github.com/socrata/soda-java/blob/master/src/test/java/test/model/Nomination.java#L23
15:52	justin_smith	yeah, that is an empty list of GenericType
15:53	justin_smith	,(java.util.ArrayList. (into-array com.sun.jersey.api.client.GenericType []))
15:53	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: com.sun.jersey.api.client.GenericType, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
15:53	justin_smith	if that class was found, that would create the equivalent
15:53	justin_smith	,(java.util.ArrayList. (into-array java.io.File []))
15:53	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class java.util.ArrayList>
15:53	justin_smith	oops!
15:54	justin_smith	,(java.util.ArrayList. [])
15:54	clojurebot	[]
15:54	justin_smith	that might even suffice
15:55	justin_smith	generics are a java compiler thing, that has no existence in the actual bytecode
15:55	benmoss	right
15:55	justin_smith	the above is equivelent to ##(java.util.ArrayList.) actually
15:55	justin_smith	oh, lazybot is down again
15:55	justin_smith	,(java.util.ArrayList.)
15:55	clojurebot	[]
15:56	metellus	truly a lazy bot
15:56	justin_smith	I am working on fixing lazybot right now, but it is making my brain hurt
15:56	cbryan	i can't even (inc) metellus!
15:57	justin_smith	oh, the things we suffer
15:57	benmoss	justin_smith: you are saying that that github line I linked to is an ArrayList?
15:57	benmoss	it appears to me to just be an instance of GenericType
15:58	benmoss	i am still befuddled
15:58	justin_smith	oh wait
15:58	justin_smith	benmoss: oh I had it inside out
15:58	justin_smith	so sorry
15:58	justin_smith	try using (GenericType.)
15:58	benmoss	no problemo
15:59	justin_smith	see where that gets you maybe?
15:59	cbryan	https://jersey.java.net/nonav/apidocs/1.5/jersey/com/sun/jersey/api/client/GenericType.html#GenericType(java.lang.reflect.Type)
15:59	cbryan	you need to pass a Type
15:59	benmoss	yeah
15:59	cbryan	and Class implements Type
16:00	cbryan	so (GenericType. (.getClass whatever))
16:00	justin_smith	oh, so (GenericType. java.util.ArrayList)
16:00	justin_smith	you can just directly specify the class too
16:00	cbryan	yeah, that's probably more likely :p
16:00	justin_smith	cbryan: it's equivalent
16:01	justin_smith	,(.getClass (java.util.ArrayList.))
16:01	clojurebot	java.util.ArrayList
16:01	cbryan	justin_smith: i mean, its more likely he'll know the class beforehand
16:01	justin_smith	right
16:01	justin_smith	unlike java we can use class literals
16:02	cbryan	benmoss: if jersey isn't required, you might want to take a look at compojure
16:04	benmoss	cbryan: yeah, i’m trying to use a Java client library for an API, it appears to just be using Jersey for this serialization business
16:04	ruby_	Hi. I wonder why (def a (filter #(do (println "hi") (symbol? %)) '[:a a 3 :b])) turns out as (hi hi hi hi a) and not as (a)
16:05	Glenjamin	the filter function has to be run for each item
16:05	justin_smith	ruby_: laziness makes the prints show up in the same output as the result
16:05	benmoss	ruby_: try looking at ‘a’ again, it won’t print the hi's
16:06	ruby_	Ah, so the hi's aren't really in the list
16:06	benmoss	yeah
16:06	ruby_	Oke, that explains it. Thanks
16:07	justin_smith	ruby_: yeah, you may expect to see the hi prints before the ( but because of laziness they don't even happen until the result starts printing, and the first part of printing the result is to print the (
16:08	justin_smith	,(def a (map #(doto % println) (range 10)))
16:08	clojurebot	#'sandbox/a
16:08	justin_smith	,a
16:08	clojurebot	(0\n1\n2\n3\n4\n5\n6\n7\n8\n9\n0 1 2 3 4 ...)
16:08	justin_smith	,a
16:08	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
16:09	justin_smith	so the bot did not print anything until we looked at it
16:11	ruby_	Thanks. I was just a bit confused by the thing printing inside the list.
16:12	justin_smith	in the example above, we also see chunking in action
16:12	justin_smith	the results were clearly not generated on at a time, otherwise we would see (0\n01\n1...)
16:12	justin_smith	*not generated one at a time
16:55	csd_	why does `'~x evaluate x but '~x does not?
16:55	Bronsa	~ only makes sense in the context of a `
16:55	clojurebot	excusez-moi
16:56	csd_	ah
17:09	csd_	,(let [foo "bar" baz "quux"] (map (fn [k] [`'~k k]) [foo baz]))
17:09	clojurebot	([(quote "bar") "bar"] [(quote "quux") "quux"])
17:09	csd_	,(into {} *1)
17:09	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Var$Unbound>
17:10	csd_	,(let [foo "bar" baz "quux"] (into {} (map (fn [k] [`'~k k]) [foo baz])))
17:10	clojurebot	{(quote "bar") "bar", (quote "quux") "quux"}
17:10	csd_	why is it that when this is written as a macro the result is {baz "quux", foo "bar"} instead of what i'm getting?
17:15	justin_smith	I think you want ~' rather than '~
17:16	csd_	no this is straight from how it's written in mastering clojure macros
17:17	csd_	and it does work properly in macro form for some reason
17:17	sobel	nice- just brought up nginx-clojure on osx with java8 and clojure 1.6
17:18	sobel	the config had migrated a bit from documentation but so far the pieces still seem to fit
17:19	SagiCZ1	does anybody know how could i round time using clj-time to the nearest period? for example to the neares quarter hour or nearest 5-minutes.. or which functions could help me?
17:19	csd_	maybe it has to do with the fact that the macro is using &env and is bound by the let expression, and that keys &env returns a list
17:24	borkdude	are lazy sequences in clojurescript chunked or not?
17:24	justin_smith	csd_: it's simpler than that - in the let block, [foo baz] is immediately resolved before the fn is called
17:24	justin_smith	csd_: the `
17:24	justin_smith	oops
17:25	justin_smith	csd_: the `'k is applied to the value of foo, rather than the symbol 'foo as it would be in a macro
17:27	csd_	ah that makes sense
17:28	csd_	guess i can assume going forward that i cant try to debug a macro as if it were a function?
17:28	justin_smith	probably - macro debugging is its own art
17:33	borkdude	let me ask this another way, why does range seem to be chunked in clojure, but not in clojurescript
17:37	justin_smith	borkdude: does clojurescript do ChunkedSeq at all?
17:38	borkdude	justin_smith apparently https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/15fbbf5d63fbc860e0fe4f7d45c7f00a27ebc0ba/src/cljs/cljs/core.cljs#L1410
17:40	Bronsa	borkdude: yeah cljs's range impl is completely different than clojure's one
17:41	borkdude	Bronsa I noticed
17:44	Glenjamin	does anyone know a good way to start in a specific namespace when using "lein repl :connect" ?
17:45	borkdude	Glenjamin yeah, you can use :repl-options {:init-ns
17:45	borkdude	I'm not sure if it works with :connect though
17:45	Glenjamin	doesn't seem to =/
17:47	justin_smith	run (in-ns 'ns-I-want) as soon as you connect? :P
17:47	Glenjamin	hrm, what's the difference between in-ns and ns?
17:48	justin_smith	in-ns just switches to namespaces, it doesn't create them
17:48	justin_smith	oh wait
17:48	Glenjamin	ah
17:49	justin_smith	it will create it
17:49	justin_smith	but it is not the right way to create one :)
17:49	justin_smith	if all you want to do is switch, in-ns suffices, but ns is for making new ones
17:56	Bronsa	andyf: I'm looking through the detailed changes, do all the reggressions involve source info?
17:57	andyf	Bronsa: Yes. I see only 2 namespaces that used to have some redefd-vars warnings with line/col numbers, and now do not. Pretty minor, and I am considering going to an Eastwood release with those nits still in there.
17:58	andyf	Those could be purely in Eastwood, not t.a.j or t.reader, but I haven?t tried analyzing those in detail yet.
17:58	Bronsa	andyf: yeah np I'll take a look
17:58	andyf	Bronsa: overall, things are looking pretty good
17:59	Bronsa	andyf: you should really pull https://github.com/clojure/tools.analyzer/commit/349ea4623d4465fd9a044b40db51886582ce1d72 before releasing, there was a loss of :raw-forms
17:59	Bronsa	mostly insignificant but might cause problems in some exceptional cases
17:59	andyf	Bronsa: will try that out
18:00	Bronsa	andyf: also it looks like eastwood is still using the bugged version of t.reader?
18:02	andyf	Bronsa: I thought I was using latest t.reader, 0.8.11, but will double-check
18:02	Bronsa	andyf: ah yeah I see it is now, nvm
18:03	andyf	good to have you looking over my shoulder there, in case I miss a fix
18:03	Bronsa	andyf: btw re: namespaces no longer throwing an exception on analysis, definitely some improvs in t.a.jvm over the past months
18:04	andyf	Bronsa: I haven't categorized the remaining exceptions yet, but the only ones I recall off-hand are due to use of key of &env
18:04	Bronsa	andyf: that's awesome to hear
18:06	Bronsa	.. and Hudson is broken again
18:07	andyf	Bronsa: Just looked through them, on for keys of &env, and one that I think is because of CLJ-1578, but it is for a version of core.logic that is Feb 2014, before Clojure 1.6.0 release.
18:07	andyf	s/on/one/
18:07	Bronsa	andyf: yeah I looked into that months ago, that's definitely what's going on there
18:08	andyf	Bronsa: The crucible is getting too easy. I plan to add 3 to 5 more projects to it soon :)
18:09	andyf	core.typed might be challenging. Prismatic has some popular libs like schema and plumbing that I'd like to get working cleanly, if recent changes haven't gotten there already.
18:10	Bronsa	yeah core.typed is definitely going to be tricky
18:11	Bronsa	andyf: about no source info for the test namespace on test.generative, did it use to include them or did it not even succeed analysis due to tanal-24?
18:12	andyf	If those are the ones I think you mean, in namespace clojure.test.array-test, those are for the new wrong-tag linter, so no previous implementation in 0.1.4 and earlier to compare it to
18:12	Bronsa	ok
18:13	andyf	Probably just me using the wrong env in the wrong-tag linter for that case.
18:14	andyf	One of these days I'll try to tighten up the line/col number checking, but I want to create a little infrastructure first that will quickly jump to the next file/line/col in the long results so I don't have to do that by hand.
18:15	cfleming	Glenjamin justin_smith: in-ns is tricky - it will create the ns if it doesn't exist, but won't do useful things like referring clojure.core, so you'll end up with a broken namespace - ns is definitely what you want for namespace creation.
18:16	Glenjamin	i've always used (ns) for switching around in the repl too
18:16	Glenjamin	afaict in-ns just exists because (ns) needs it
18:16	gfredericks	I use it with require sometimes
18:17	gfredericks	as in (doto 'foo.bar require in-ns)
18:17	cfleming	Well in-ns is what's generally recommended for switching around in the REPL, but it's tricky if you're not sure which ns's you've require'd, right.
18:17	gfredericks	a use case for which ns is not very useful
18:17	gfredericks	or well
18:17	gfredericks	I guess it would work just as well
18:18	gfredericks	and save 3 characters to boot
18:20	gfredericks	also in-ns is terrible for pronouncing out loud
18:20	Glenjamin	,(macroexpand '(ns abc))
18:20	clojurebot	(do (clojure.core/in-ns (quote abc)) (clojure.core/with-loading-context (clojure.core/refer (quote clojure.core))) (if (.equals (quote abc) (quote clojure.core)) nil (do (clojure.core/dosync (clojure.core/commute (clojure.core/deref (var clojure.core/loaded-libs)) clojure.core/conj (quote abc))) nil)))
18:20	zoldar	Hi. Is there any way to use prismatic/schema with mutimethods?
18:26	justin_smith	cfleming: I was suggesting in-ns for switching the repl namespace (assuming it existed)
18:27	cfleming	justin_smith: Yeah, that's the normal use I think.
18:28	cfleming	The other thing it gets used for is when you're using load-file, but I consider load-file pretty much a language bug.
18:28	Glenjamin	does anyone know how to see what middleware is loaded on the current REPLy client?
18:29	gfredericks	that sounds pretty hard
18:29	Glenjamin	i think piggieback isn't loading properly, but i have no idea how to tell
18:29	gfredericks	if you can afford to restart...
18:29	justin_smith	cfleming: maybe we need (def n #(when (find-ns %) (in-ns %)))
18:29	gfredericks	then you can make a user.clj that wraps the nrepl start-server function with debugging
18:30	Glenjamin	ooooh, i know
18:30	Glenjamin	i'm starting the server manually, so it won't pick up middleware from project.clj
18:30	cfleming	justin_smith: yeah, Cursive used to require namespaces before switching to them, but that broke in CLJS
18:30	gfredericks	Glenjamin: there's also a major bug in middleware ordering, so if things persist in being broken, blame that
18:31	Glenjamin	good stuff
18:31	Glenjamin	trying to setup a cljs repl for a workshop that "just works"
18:31	justin_smith	so now I have the updated lazybot a) connected to irc b) joining channels and c) aware of when something is a command
18:31	justin_smith	now to make the commands execute!
18:32	cfleming	justin_smith: So when can I connect my REPL directly to freenode and use it to send messages?
18:32	nestastubbs	blurp
18:33	cfleming	Forget erc, I'm jacked into the lazybot!
18:33	justin_smith	cfleming: well, I bet you could do that already with irclj - lazybot is tricker because you have to kind-of-but-not-really trust commands from randos on a channel
18:33	justin_smith	s/i bet/you definitely could/
18:34	cfleming	That sounds like a fun weekend project for my next free weekend.
18:34	cfleming	Around 2032 or so.
18:34	justin_smith	right now I am updating lazybot to a newer irclj version (that is massively incompatible with the old one) so as to make it a bit more reliable
18:35	cfleming	Ok, cool - is the lazybot code public?
18:35	justin_smith	yeah, it's under Raynes github account
18:35	cfleming	lazybot also creates the irc logs, right?
18:35	justin_smith	he requested volunteers to help make it less likely to drop off the irc
18:36	justin_smith	yeah, I believe it is one of the loggers here
18:36	justin_smith	when it is online
18:36	justin_smith	I seem to recall updating a plugin that did logging, yeah
18:36	justin_smith	(it's been a blur)
18:37	cfleming	I saw some interesting googlespam this morning actually - it was a transcript of a conversation in here yesterday with the names changed.
18:37	justin_smith	haha, that's one way to try to get through a bayesian filter I guess
18:39	cfleming	At least they had the decency to change the names.
18:41	nathanic	justin_smith: are you doing this lazybot irclj update somewhere public?
18:42	nathanic	i have considered doing the same thing, but so far laziness has always won out
18:42	justin_smith	nathanic: yeah, noisesmith github, but all I have pushed so far is a refactoring that eliminates :use
18:42	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
18:42	justin_smith	clojurebot: wtf
18:42	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
18:43	Glenjamin	woo, finally managed to get figwheel + repl going
18:49	Bronsa	andyf: ok should have fixed all the source-info issues now, this one was funny. it was caused by analyze+eval handling the gilardi scenario but not preserving the original source-info
18:50	andyf	Bronsa: The gilardi scenario breaks so many things
18:51	Bronsa	andyf: the workaround for it, rather. yeah it complicates some stuff but it it would be much worse without it
18:51	andyf	I just fixed a bug recently in Eastwood where it was checking for exceptions thrown in the top level result of analyze+eval, but not in the evaluation of the subforms. Made some error situations very strange because no exception was visible until significantly later.
18:51	nestastubbs	yeah for chestnut
18:54	danneu	what do i need to do to use :optimizations :none during cljs development? :none isn't even documented as an option in cljsbuild.
18:55	danneu	is there some closure js blob i can load before the cljs file?
18:55	Bronsa	andyf: I might have already asked you this -- did you notice any speedup with the upgrade to 0.6.x?
18:56	andyf	Bronsa: You did, and I still haven't paid much attention to run time yet -- been focusing on the results modulo line/col numbers.
18:57	andyf	Bronsa: I'll probably collect some results comparing Clojure 1.6 / 1.7-alpha3 and Eastwood 0.1.4 / 0.1.5 in a matrix for the crucible projects, at least the total run time across all of them, and let you know when I have those.
18:58	Bronsa	andyf: that would be much appreciated, thanks
19:00	Bronsa	andyf: just fyi I'm seeing a >2x speedup in the lastest releases compared to >=0.5.x but I've only profiled a couple of projects, would be interested to see if that measurment turned out to be consistent
19:02	myguidingstar	hi all, does ".bar" in this code get changed in advanced mode in Clojurescript? (let [foo (js/require "foo")] (.bar foo))
19:02	Bronsa	myguidingstar: what do you mean by "changed"?
19:02	gfredericks	myguidingstar: I think it will unless it's listed in an externs files
19:03	myguidingstar	if yes, then how do I add extern for that?
19:06	myguidingstar	gfredericks, foo is created by js/require. How should the extern look like?
19:10	gfredericks	try: var Foo = {}; Foo.bar=function(){};
19:10	gfredericks	I don't know for sure how these things work, I'm just being superstitious
19:14	myguidingstar	I don't think it will work. The Clojurescript code doesn't use js/Foo
19:15	gfredericks	replace Foo with the pertinent class name?
19:16	myguidingstar	I don't understand. All I have here is js/require. Which class?
19:17	gfredericks	uhm
19:17	gfredericks	I dunno
19:17	munderwo	Hi all. I’ve got a cljs project that I want to insert some clj into (to start up repls etc). I’ve seperated my src directory ito clj and cljs , but not cant seem to from the repl get at my clj classed. Any idea? do I need to namespace them with clj at the start?
19:18	gfredericks	munderwo: did you tell leiningen that you changed the source-path?
19:19	munderwo	gfredericks: this is my project.clj https://www.refheap.com/92627
19:20	munderwo	I tried to add a :clj key->value paid with a source-path… but not sure if thats right?
19:20	gfredericks	munderwo: no I've never heard of that -- I think you just want :source-paths at the top level
19:21	munderwo	ahh right.. cool. i’ll give that a shot
19:22	munderwo	thanks! looks like it works
19:29	gfredericks	hoo ray
19:29	gfredericks	~hoo is <reply> ray
19:29	clojurebot	Alles klar
19:38	justin_smith	~hoo
19:38	clojurebot	ray
19:39	myguidingstar	hmm, why isn't there a Clojurescript bot here? ;)
19:39	myguidingstar	I mean one that can evaluate Clojurescript code
19:39	justin_smith	because you didn't make one yet, of course
19:39	arrdem	lol
19:40	arrdem	anyone have experience constructing bounded ID arenas?
19:40	gfredericks	~only you \|can prevent\| the lack of a clojurescript bot
19:40	clojurebot	In Ordnung
19:40	arrdem	thinking about using something more compact than a UUID for unique naming in a small context
19:42	munderwo	arrdem, there was an interesting article floating around the interwebs a few days ago about how long a uuid has to be.
19:42	gfredericks	,(Long/toString (.nextLong (java.util.Random.)) 36)
19:42	clojurebot	"-18d0w18jza2u"
19:42	arrdem	munderwo: yeah that's the one that got me thinking
19:42	rhg135	gen-sym's are sortof unique
19:42	munderwo	ahhh… im out then :) thats all the wisdom you will get form me on that matter.
19:43	arrdem	I wonder if imgur has a writeup of their hash naming somewhere..
19:44	munderwo	For some reason my clojure project is wanting cider-nrepl 0.8.0 which I dont think exists. and im not sure whats wanting it.
19:45	munderwo	Im trying to adapt the chestnut lein template to my own project.. and when I try to start figwheel it says it cant find cider-nrepl 0.8.0
19:46	munderwo	nvm… turns out there is a 0.8.0-SNAPSHOT
19:47	munderwo	or maybe not
19:47	justin_smith	it definitely exists
19:50	andyf	Bronsa: Tried out the latest t.a(.j) changes and they all look good in the results ... going in
19:55	justin_smith	OK, be nice because he is still a bit borked
19:55	justin_smith	@ping
19:55	anybot	anybot: Ping completed in 0 seconds.
19:55	justin_smith	~hoo
19:55	clojurebot	ray
19:56	justin_smith	fuck yeah, finally something I can commit and push with the updated irclj
20:00	arrdem	justin_smith: so is anybot gonna have trivia?
20:02	justin_smith	arrdem: anybot is just for testing the lazybot update
20:02	justin_smith	still not commited to running it long term
20:03	justin_smith	though I may end up deciding I'd like to have a bot of my very own, and would likely start with this one
20:05	mj_langford	Is there a higher order function for (f (f (f (f (f x))))) ?
20:05	justin_smith	mj_langford: iterate gives you successive values of that as a lazy-seq
20:05	justin_smith	,(iterate inc 0)
20:05	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
20:05	justin_smith	,(iterate * 2)
20:05	clojurebot	(2 2 2 2 2 ...)
20:05	mj_langford	That works I think
20:05	justin_smith	,(iterate #(* % %) 2)
20:05	clojurebot	#<ArithmeticException java.lang.ArithmeticException: integer overflow>
20:05	catern	,(* 2)
20:05	clojurebot	2
20:06	justin_smith	,(iterate #(*' % %) 2)
20:06	clojurebot	(2 4 16 256 65536 ...)
20:06	vanila	hi all!
20:06	justin_smith	hello
20:06	vanila	ive got interested in compilers looking at rich hickeys clojure
20:07	vanila	i think it produces java files which get compiled to classes, would there be a benefit of producing bytecode class files directly?
20:07	arrdem	the Clojure compiler emits classfiles directly
20:07	arrdem	as do TEJVM and Oxcart
20:07	vanila	oh ok!
20:08	justin_smith	yeah, it doesn't use java except in compiling the compiler itself (it isn't self hosting)
20:09	catern	the fact that clojure isn't self-hosting seems something of a black mark to me
20:10	arrdem	catern: it's hard to build something self-hosting without a specification :P
20:10	vanila	i think self hosting is cool , but is it really important?
20:10	catern	that's also a black mark :)
20:10	arrdem	*blackest
20:10	arrdem	vanila: where it really counts is when porting $LANG to a new platform
20:11	arrdem	vanila: for day to day use self-hosting doesn't usually matter
20:11	catern	vanila: if you can't write a compiler for your own language in your language, how are we to know that it's not just another Turing tarpit
20:11	catern	(with a few flowers stuck into the tar)
20:11	justin_smith	catern: what does self hosting have to do with tarpits?
20:11	justin_smith	there are self hosting tarpits, aren't there?
20:12	arrdem	catern: you should clean up your blog a bit brah :P
20:12	justin_smith	ie. many forth impls would likely count as self hosting tarpits
20:12	arrdem	catern: also welcome to the Big Brother Database of Clojure ppls
20:13	catern	justin_smith: well a reason to not self-host might be "it's impossible to write anything in the language"
20:13	catern	arrdem: yeah... and what is that database?
20:13	arrdem	something I maintain for my own reference
20:14	arrdem	big org file :P
20:14	catern	ah
20:14	justin_smith	arrdem: are you actually using bbdb?
20:14	arrdem	justin_smith: nope couldn't get that crap working
20:14	arrdem	justin_smith: after three evenings of trying I gave up and used org :/
20:15	justin_smith	org is good
20:15	justin_smith	all my passwords are in a passwords.org.gpg file
20:15	justin_smith	auto-encryption ftw
20:15	arrdem	hum...
20:15	vanila	I want to write a little compiler that targets the jVM
20:16	nestastubbs	vanila lots of tools out there for that in Java, bytecode assemlbers and the like
20:17	arrdem	justin_smith: lol .gpg works first time, .pgp still glitchy.
20:17	arrdem	justin_smith: thanks, file extension for my own passwords file changed :P
20:18	justin_smith	nice
20:18	justin_smith	vanila: clojure and scala both use a java lib called asm
20:19	arrdem	vanila: tools.emitter.jvm has a nice stateless wrapper for it
20:20	vanila	thanks a lot all :
20:20	vanila	:)
20:20	nestastubbs	anyone doing ML in clojure? specifically HTM and ANN classifiers?
20:22	TEttinger	is this the new and improved lazybot???
20:22	lazybot	TEttinger: Yes, 100% for sure.
20:30	justin_smith	TEttinger: not yet, the irclj change was pretty radical, and most everything was built around that api with heavy coupling
20:30	justin_smith	so it's be a few
20:41	arrdem	anyone have a favorite "in memory database" for use with Clojure?
20:42	arrdem	a "db" you can embed in a Clojure instance would probably cut it here
20:42	fairuz	arrdem: Titan? :)
20:42	rs0	arrdem: datomic?
20:43	arrdem	rs0: no
20:43	arrdem	f/oss pls
20:43	rs0	well, redis isn't in process...
20:43	justin_smith	arrdem: we use h2 with caribou, because it is pure java and we can do basic jdbc stuff with it
20:43	justin_smith	but only for testing / dev, never in production
20:44	arrdem	I may just break out RethinkDB...
20:44	arrdem	or SimpleDB
20:44	nestastubbs	arrdem: redis for me 8)
20:44	nestastubbs	oh...
20:44	nestastubbs	sorry, in process is what you wanted?
20:44	nestastubbs	pldb and core.logic!
20:44	arrdem	not to stressed about that
20:45	arrdem	lol
20:45	nestastubbs	I shit you now
20:45	nestastubbs	not
20:45	nestastubbs	you can serialize pldbs
20:45	nestastubbs	it's easy to compose them
20:45	nestastubbs	and then you have all of core.logic there for querying
20:45	arrdem	this may actually fit nicely into pldb...
20:46	arrdem	rules and statistics from a game that I'm working on getting out of XML into something... usable
20:46	nestastubbs	I am pretty sure pldb is part of core.logic now... err
20:46	nestastubbs	on private laptop, so don't have any of our company code here
20:48	arrdem	does PLDB let you do linkings between facts?
20:48	arrdem	Eg. [model 'a stats-record rules-record]
20:48	benmoss	anyone know of a way in Vim to pretty print a data structure
20:48	nestastubbs	there is no model
20:49	nestastubbs	it's just defrel from core.logic with a reified database
20:49	arrdem	hurm..
20:49	nestastubbs	you would build that join with a simple logical statement
20:50	nestastubbs	that kind object model is too much ceremony, and too little win IMO
20:50	nestastubbs	just use a big map
20:50	nestastubbs	update-in, assoc-in etc...
20:50	arrdem	yes and no
20:51	arrdem	yes a map is simpler, no I've already tried that and come to the conclusion that I need something more involved.
20:51	arrdem	lenses come to mind..
20:54	nestastubbs	hmm, interesting, but since I don't know your problem space, I can't help beyond here 8)
20:55	arrdem	thanks anyway, PLDB is interesting and I'm probably gonna play with it now even if it doesn't wind up being used :P
20:56	nestastubbs	yah, it's not so much a mutable DB
20:57	nestastubbs	but it's doable
20:58	arrdem	yeah I have my own sketch of an immutable reference store from a previous iteration of this project..
21:01	BAMbanda	lighttable or cider?
21:02	nestastubbs	cider
21:02	BAMbanda	cool
21:02	nestastubbs	I wanted to like lighttable
21:02	rs0	what about cursive?
21:02	BAMbanda	nestastubbs, same, but emacs has a more classic and familiar feel to it
21:03	nestastubbs	and doesn't crash all the time
21:03	BAMbanda	rs0, i havn't tried cursive
21:03	BAMbanda	but tbh, emacs has changed the way i look at a text editor, i don't wish to betry it
21:04	rs0	that's fine, just make sure you remap Ctrl to something more sensible
21:04	rs0	either that or use a Kinesis Advantage as your keyboard
21:04	BAMbanda	haha, ctrl works fine for me
21:04	nestastubbs	that's why they make capslock keys
21:04	rs0	yup
21:05	rs0	BAMbanda: you realize that all the old school hardcore emacs hackers ended up with really bad RSI, right?
21:05	arrdem	lols
21:05	BAMbanda	rs0, dude thats scary, you recommend mapping to caps lock?
21:05	rs0	BAMbanda: map caps lock to anything but caps lock. ctrl is good. alt is also good (and then map the alt key to ctrl)
21:05	nestastubbs	yah, map capslock to ctrl_l
21:06	BAMbanda	perfect idea, i should do that now
21:06	rs0	caps lock is an exquisitely useless key occupying the keyboard real estate equivalent of cape cod
21:07	gfredericks	it's about as offensive as the space bar
21:07	mj_langford	https://github.com/alevchuk/vim-clutch maybe? :D
21:07	gfredericks	which is rather more useful but not 5 keys' and 2 digits' worth of useful
21:08	BAMbanda	mj_langford, not to bag on other editors, but any dialect of lisp feels at home in an editor written in a dialect of lisp
21:08	rs0	gfredericks: we do this to ourselves by choosing to use consumer trashware keyboards with layouts from the days of manual typewriters
21:08	mj_langford	haha, I meant as a RSI cure, you could map it to control probably
21:08	mj_langford	for emacs, not vim
21:09	cfleming	BAMbanda: no worries, Cursive is (mostly) implemented in Clojure
21:09	cfleming	BAMbanda: So you're good there.
21:09	rs0	i tried cursive very briefly and i noticed that it didn't seem to do a good job of providing useful auto-completion on java types
21:09	BAMbanda	cfleming, true, so is clojurescript, but it would be nice if there was a headless mode for terminals
21:10	BAMbanda	not to mention the history of hackerdom
21:10	cfleming	rs0: Really? Cursive's completion should be pretty good there - anything in particular that didn't work for you?
21:11	rs0	cfleming: IIRC i was doing a test run with the latest community edition of intellij 13.1 and the latest cursive, and i was playing around with a thread pool. i started with (doto (Executors/newFixedThreadPool5)) and I noticed that thread pool methods like shutdown, awaitTermination, and submit weren't being suggested, not even with alternate syntaxes like the dot special form
21:11	BAMbanda	i mean lighttable
21:11	rs0	cfleming: however, i submitted a (reify Runnable ...) and got good auto-completion there, so i figured that Cursive was focusing on implementing good Clojure suggestions
21:12	cfleming	rs0: Ah, I see - no, it's not that. Currently Cursive autocompletes from all imported classes (like most envs I think).
21:12	rs0	ah!
21:12	rs0	interesting
21:12	rs0	so because i only had j.u.c.Executors imported, it wouldn't suggest anything from ThreadPoolExecutor
21:12	cfleming	rs0: In your doto form, the problem is that the type of the result of your (Executors...) expression hasn't been imported.
21:13	cfleming	Right.
21:13	cfleming	rs0: That'll be fixed soon with better type inference.
21:14	cfleming	rs0: Once I have the inference done, the java completion should be pretty much perfect.
21:14	cfleming	rs0: Which is definitely the goal.
21:15	rs0	cfleming: sounds great. i think that for all of the flak java catches for being verbose and inflexible (and rightfully so), the extremely advanced IDEs for Java add a kind of interactivity that i think a lot of people don't fully appreciate
21:15	cfleming	rs0: Oh yeah, I'd consider Java seriously for any large project just because of IntelliJ
21:16	cfleming	rs0: I'm working on my conj talk right now where I say exactly that in one of the slides, in fact :-)
21:16	nestastubbs	When I did Java, I used Emacs most of the time, Eclipse when I needed a debugger or was exploring a new package
21:16	rs0	cfleming: i've currently got two open source projects that i wrote to try to import into Java the Clojure features that are most sorely missing from Java development
21:17	rs0	cfleming: currently the only thing I really, really resent that I can't fix is the lack of decent data literals
21:17	cfleming	nestastubbs: Wow.
21:17	cfleming	nestastubbs: That's almost like professional negligence :-)
21:17	rs0	nestastubbs: why? why on earth?
21:17	nestastubbs	speed of typing and producing the code and moving it around
21:18	nestastubbs	Eclipse was so slow and annoying, and this was on top of line linux workstation
21:18	cfleming	nestastubbs: Yeah, but IntelliJ is a different story IMO
21:18	rs0	i dunno man. i have more vim skill than most, and i'm dramatically more productive in IntelliJ. then again, your basis for comparison was Eclipse, which is probably more borderline. Emacs rarely crashes and destroys its own workspace metadata =)
21:18	nestastubbs	bean shell, emacs (with ctags), and all of our tests were callable as shell cmds
21:19	nestastubbs	Yah, IntelliJ may be a different matter.
21:19	rs0	camelcase autocompletion is like the Ctrl-R of Java development
21:19	rs0	it becomes absolutely unthinkable to write code without it
21:21	rs0	does anyone know of any good material on lenses?
22:00	nestastubbs	heads up, mac priv escalation sploit
22:00	nestastubbs	rootpipe
22:00	nestastubbs	knowing how much clojurians like their macs...
22:01	technomancy	rs0: aw yeah, a rant about how terrible conventional keyboards are =)
22:01	technomancy	I like the cut of your jib
22:03	technomancy	I heard there was a proposal to add an official repl to java
22:12	rs0	technomancy: yup!
22:12	nestastubbs	I thought that came in 1.5?
22:12	rs0	technomancy: a true REPL (as opposed to a toy "shell" like most languages have) could be a huge deal
22:12	nestastubbs	ah
22:12	rs0	nestastubbs: no, it's been proposed for JDK9
22:13	rs0	nestastubbs: http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/announce/2014-August/000181.html
22:57	oram	Hello, I've got an issue with the java.jdbc driver and postgres. I've got a
22:57	oram	function which produces a valid postgres string - I've tried in a test
22:57	oram	database. But when I try running it from the repl it gibes me an error - is
22:57	oram	there something stupid I'm missing?
22:57	oram	(defn create-users-table []
22:57	oram	(sql/with-connection db
22:57	oram	(sql/create-table
22:57	oram	:users
22:57	oram	[:userid :serial "PRIMARY KEY"]
22:58	oram	[:username "varchar(50)"]
22:58	oram	[:pass "varchar(100)"])))
22:58	oram	It chokes on the userid column
23:00	danneu	i just use sql strings for everything jdbc
23:02	oram	alright, thanks danneu. I'll try that.
23:04	danneu	oram: check out https://github.com/krisajenkins/yesql btw
23:38	oram	danneu: thanks for the tip. I ended up updating my java.jdbc from 2.3 to
23:38	oram	3.6 and updating the function to use the new api.
23:39	Twylo	Well. I've managed to stump myself, so I've come here to beg for some spare brain cells.
23:42	Twylo	I want to map a function over a collection with a predicate, and apply the function only the first time the predicate matches. So... let's see. An example...
23:42	Twylo	(map-once #(if (even? %) 0 %) '(5 8 9 10)) => (5 0 9 10)
23:43	Twylo	I keep wanting to do something with (recur) and passing a flag that says whether I've matched yet, but it feels so ugly :S
23:57	andyf	Twylo: I'd look at the implementation of map in Clojure, and note that there is no need to pass a flag that says whether you've matched yet. Once you do match once, the rest of the result after that is the remaining unmodified input sequence.
23:57	andyf	Twylo: By look at, I mean copy it and modify it to your purposes.
23:57	andyf	Twylo: But you will probably not need the arities that work for more than one input sequence, which can simplify your life to just delete the ones you don't need.
23:57	andyf	(in your copy)