#clojure – 2014-10-29

2014-10-29

00:00	justin_smith	numberten: oh, agent uses nprocessors+2 as well
00:00	numberten	magic number I guess
00:00	bbloom	puredanger: are you saying you can always use two more threads?
00:00	bbloom	heh
00:00	puredanger	exactly
00:00	justin_smith	numberten: it's core.async that multiplies by two and then adds 42 https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/aefbe7ad7e68f89f2ca584cd2fcd1bdf6fe8a601/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/async/impl/exec/threadpool.clj
00:01	justin_smith	I was misremembering
00:01	numberten	that's also weird..
00:01	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
00:01	justin_smith	~that
00:01	clojurebot	that is not the forget syntax
00:01	justin_smith	how meta, clojurebot
00:02	numberten	what does ~ do for clojurebot?
00:02	joshhead	*2 then +42? that seems pretty arbitrary
00:02	justin_smith	numberten: it asks him for a factoid
00:02	justin_smith	~factoid
00:02	clojurebot	Excuse me?
00:02	numberten	~justin_smith
00:02	justin_smith	~botsnack
00:02	clojurebot	justin_smith is sits on a throne of lies
00:02	clojurebot	Thanks! Can I have chocolate next time
00:03	numberten	heh
00:03	justin_smith	numberten: a youthful indescretion preserved for all time, or until the sqlite db holding the factoids gets wiped
00:03	TEttinger	~ask
00:03	clojurebot	The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.
00:04	justin_smith	bodie_: https://github.com/swannodette/om/wiki/Cursors is the doc I found
00:14	bbloom	justin_smith: i think i'm going to abuse Rhino, since it has a js parser and code generator... although it's private impl details i may have to hack around to get at
00:26	justin_smith	bbloom: interesting
00:27	justin_smith	what's the default equality method that #{} uses?
00:27	justin_smith	it seems not to be .equals
00:27	justin_smith	,(deftype Tuple [a b] Object (equals [this other] (and (= (.a this) (.a other)) (= (.b this) (.b other)))) (toString [this] (str "<" (.a this) "," (.b this) ">")))
00:27	clojurebot	sandbox.Tuple
00:28	justin_smith	,(into #{} [(Tuple. 0 0) (Tuple. 0 0) (Tuple. 0 0)])
00:28	clojurebot	#{#<Tuple <0,0>> #<Tuple <0,0>> #<Tuple <0,0>>}
00:28	justin_smith	,(apply = [(Tuple. 0 0) (Tuple. 0 0) (Tuple. 0 0)])
00:28	clojurebot	true
00:28	justin_smith	I implemented equals, = returns true, but a set doesn't consider them unique
00:29	justin_smith	*identical
00:38	amalloy	justin_smith: you didn't implement hashCode
00:38	justin_smith	amalloy: yeah I figured it out http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26622511/clojure-value-equality-and-sets/26622863#26622863
01:48	Balveda	Say I've got a map like so
01:48	Balveda	{:names [{:surn "A" :givn "B"} ... {:surn "X" :givn "Y"}]}
01:50	justin_smith	OK
01:52	egghead	very nice Balveda
01:52	Balveda-2	huh, I cut out
01:52	egghead	:)
01:52	Balveda	Anyways, yeah
01:53	Balveda	I've been having some issues with a function because of that for a week or so and through some debugging I found out that what is wrong is that I'm doing (map-indexed list x-map) and that just gives me one item with everything in it
01:54	justin_smith	Balveda: I think I did not see the "because of that" you refer to
01:54	nathan7	06:47:50 < Balveda> {:names [{:surn "A" :givn "B"} ... {:surn "X" :givn "Y"}]}
01:54	nathan7	that's all we got
01:54	Balveda	AH
01:54	Balveda	<Balveda> I want map-indexed to get me 0 {:surn "A" :givn "B"} 1 {:surn "C" :givn "D"} etc
01:54	Balveda	<Balveda> What fn could I feed it?
01:54	Balveda	Then everything else
01:55	Balveda	My connection's being pretty terrible today unfortunately
01:55	egghead	Balveda: i think you're looking for update-in ?
01:55	justin_smith	,(map-indexed list (:names {:names [{:surn "A" :givn "B"} {:surn "X" :givn "Y"}]}))
01:55	clojurebot	((0 {:surn "A", :givn "B"}) (1 {:surn "X", :givn "Y"}))
01:55	Balveda	hm..
01:57	Balveda-2	I'm actually doing something like that but it's not quite doing this
02:01	Balveda	jeez
02:01	Balveda	anyways
02:01	Balveda	I saw your code, justin_smith, and I am actually doing something like that
02:01	Balveda	It's all in cljs, Hoplon in particular
02:01	justin_smith	OK
02:02	Balveda	but the functionality should be similar
02:02	justin_smith	right, all of that above should just work in cljs
02:09	vIkSiT	hello all
02:09	vIkSiT	I have a fn that takes a few args : (myfn a b c :k v :k2 v2 ... )
02:10	vIkSiT	in general, the v can be another complex structure
02:10	vIkSiT	eg
02:10	vIkSiT	:k {ns2/myfn {:k' :v' ... })
02:10	vIkSiT	Id like to create a macro that allows me to return the args portion that are key/vals
02:10	vIkSiT	so
02:10	vIkSiT	(myfn a b c (mymacro))
02:10	vIkSiT	should give me
02:11	vIkSiT	(myfn a b c :k v :k1 v1 ...)
02:11	vIkSiT	how would I do this?
02:11	vIkSiT	As you might imagine, these key values need to be constructed piecemeal based on input and i'd like to abstract it out from myfn
02:11	vIkSiT	ideas?
02:12	justin_smith	are all of those instances of myfn the same function?
02:12	vIkSiT	oh sorry no
02:12	vIkSiT	that should be (ns2/anotherfn)
02:13	vIkSiT	I guess what I can't figure out is - what should be the return type of this macro/function that returns these kv pairs?
02:13	justin_smith	vIkSiT: macros cannot transform an outer form
02:13	justin_smith	they only transform what is inside them
02:13	justin_smith	not what wraps them
02:13	vIkSiT	right
02:14	vIkSiT	I guess my question is more on - if I have to call (myfn a b c & args)
02:14	vIkSiT	how do I get these args from some function
02:14	justin_smith	apply
02:14	vIkSiT	hmm
02:15	vIkSiT	what's a good example?
02:15	vIkSiT	(defn myfn [a b c & args]
02:15	vIkSiT	(prn a b c args))
02:16	vIkSiT	(myfn 1 2 3 :k1 'v1 :k2 'v2) -> 1 2 3 (:k1 v1 :k2 v2)
02:16	justin_smith	,(apply (fn [& {:keys [a b c]}] [c b a]) (apply concat {:a 0 :b 1 :c 2}))
02:16	clojurebot	[2 1 0]
02:16	justin_smith	the extra apply concat is because & {:keys ...} sucks
02:16	vIkSiT	sorry whats going on here again?
02:17	justin_smith	,(def args{:a 0 :b 1 :c 2})
02:17	clojurebot	#'sandbox/args
02:17	justin_smith	,(defn dothing [& {:keys [a b c]}] [c b a])
02:17	clojurebot	#'sandbox/dothing
02:17	justin_smith	,(apply dothing (apply concat args))
02:17	clojurebot	[2 1 0]
02:17	vIkSiT	ah hmm
02:18	justin_smith	or you could just not use & {:keys ...}, and everything is suddenly much simpler
02:19	vIkSiT	sadly its not my function. library
02:19	justin_smith	vIkSiT: the apply concat is needed to put the map in the shape that & {:keys ...} needs
02:20	vIkSiT	justin_smith, trying to wrap my head
02:21	vIkSiT	so what happens when dothing has [a b c & args]
02:21	vIkSiT	how would I use it?
02:21	justin_smith	(apply dothing a b c (apply concat args))
02:21	justin_smith	(if args is a map)
02:21	justin_smith	,(apply + 1 2 3 [4 5 ])
02:21	clojurebot	15
02:22	justin_smith	only the last arg is unwrapped, the rest are used as normal
02:23	vIkSiT	hmm
02:29	vIkSiT	justin_smith - one issue here
02:29	vIkSiT	(apply concat mymap)
02:29	vIkSiT	gives (:k1 v k2 v...)
02:29	vIkSiT	its a list
02:29	vIkSiT	whereas what I want is the values themselves
02:29	justin_smith	just the values?
02:30	vIkSiT	,(defn myfn [a b c & args]
02:30	vIkSiT	(prn a b c args))
02:30	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
02:30	justin_smith	use vals then
02:30	vIkSiT	sorry I mean
02:30	vIkSiT	(apply myfn 1 2 3 (flatten (apply concat {:k1 1 :k2 3})))
02:30	vIkSiT	1 2 3 (:k1 1 :k2 3)
02:30	justin_smith	,(vals {:a 0 :b 1 :c 2 :d 4})
02:30	clojurebot	(2 1 4 0)
02:30	vIkSiT	but I want
02:30	justin_smith	you don't need flatten
02:30	vIkSiT	1 2 3 :k1 1 :k2 3
02:31	justin_smith	vIkSiT: that is the point of apply
02:31	justin_smith	vIkSiT: you can't alter the args to myfn inside one of its args, that's just not a thing
02:31	clojurebot	I don't understand.
02:31	justin_smith	so you use apply
02:31	vIkSiT	hmm
02:32	justin_smith	there is no way to wrap your map such that it alters the arg list - but apply will construct a new arg list
02:32	justin_smith	and also, that flatten is not needed, and can break things
02:32	justin_smith	~flatten
02:32	clojurebot	flatten is rarely the right answer. Suppose you need to use a list as your "base type", for example. Usually you only want to flatten a single level, and in that case you're better off with concat. Or, better still, use mapcat to produce a sequence that's shaped right to begin with.
02:32	justin_smith	I've never actually ever needed flatten
02:35	justin_smith	vIkSiT: is the issue you are describing with myfn that you want myfn to make a single collection of all its args?
02:35	vIkSiT	i'm just wrapping my head around how this apply is working with the concat map
02:35	vIkSiT	hmm
02:35	justin_smith	(defn otherfn [a b c & args] (println (conj args c b a)))
02:35	justin_smith	,(defn otherfn [a b c & args] (println (conj args c b a)))
02:35	clojurebot	#'sandbox/otherfn
02:36	justin_smith	,(apply otherfn 1 2 3 [4 5 6])
02:36	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 ...)\n
02:36	justin_smith	,(defn otherfn [a b c & args] (apply println (conj args c b a)))
02:36	clojurebot	#'sandbox/otherfn
02:36	justin_smith	,(apply otherfn 1 2 3 [4 5 6])
02:36	clojurebot	1 2 3 4 5 6\n
02:36	vIkSiT	aah
02:36	vIkSiT	got it
02:37	vIkSiT	thanks justin_smith - that was super helpful :)
02:37	justin_smith	these also work:
02:37	vIkSiT	hmm?
02:37	justin_smith	,(otherfn 1 2 3 4 5 6)
02:37	clojurebot	1 2 3 4 5 6\n
02:37	vIkSiT	ah
02:37	vIkSiT	yes
02:37	vIkSiT	I understand how apply works now
02:38	justin_smith	,(apply otherfn [1 2 3 4 5 6])
02:38	clojurebot	1 2 3 4 5 6\n
02:38	justin_smith	,(apply otherfn 1 [2 3 4 5 6])
02:38	clojurebot	1 2 3 4 5 6\n
02:38	justin_smith	etc. etc.
02:38	vIkSiT	ah
02:39	vIkSiT	makes sense
02:40	zRecursive	,(doc ->)
02:40	clojurebot	"([x & forms]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the second item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the second item in second form, etc."
02:41	justin_smith	zRecursive: something that really helps with -> is using macroexpand
02:42	zRecursive	,(macroexpand ->)
02:42	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/->, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
02:42	justin_smith	,(macroexpand '(-> 1 inc (println "is the number")))
02:42	clojurebot	(println (inc 1) "is the number")
02:42	vIkSiT	oh nice trick
02:42	zRecursive	great!
02:47	justin_smith	anyway, I'm staying logged in but turning in for the night, see you all later
02:48	Balveda-2	(inc justin_smith)
02:48	lazybot	⇒ 107
02:49	fairuz	(+ 1 2)
02:49	clojurebot	3
03:16	rurumate	Is defrecord "discouraged"?
03:20	arrdem	rurumate: in what sense?
03:20	arrdem	rurumate: defrecord and deftype are not tools one typically reaches for right away if that's what you mean
03:20	arrdem	rurumate: but they are working tools to be used when appropriate
03:25	rurumate	arrdem: The reader can not read records. When performance is not critical, should hash maps always be preferred? Records are also often used with protocols. Is it preferable to use defmulti / defmethod, and a dispatch field in hash maps instead? I'm looking for the best practice way here.
03:28	arrdem	rurumate: maps represent arbitrary mappings... for small symbolic mapings records or types are intended to do better
03:28	arrdem	rurumate: the "best practice" is to prototype everything with plain maps, get that working and then use records if there is a gain from doing so
03:29	rurumate	Also, what happens when you have a record based protocol, and then use standard functions like assoc on your records. That can have unexpected results, because it converts the record to a map, and then the the correct dispatch of the prototype may not trigger. It seems that this can lead to subtle bugs and brittle code
03:30	arrdem	rurumate: no records are maps and remain records if you assoc or dissoc on them
03:30	rurumate	*dispatch of the protocol may not trigger
03:30	arrdem	if you merge on a record you can discard the record class and get a map back, but that's sketchy anway
03:33	rurumate	I think records are mostly awkward to work with
03:33	rurumate	more awkward than regular maps, anyway
03:33	arrdem	that's definitely true
03:34	arrdem	but maps are a less complex tool and are generally preferred so you shouldn't be surprised.
03:35	yekKhaste	Hi
03:35	yekKhaste	Is clojure good for rapid web development?
03:36	yekKhaste	Clojure can compare to something link rails for rapid web development?
03:39	rurumate	yekKhaste: it's a lisp, so it should be good for pretty much anything
03:39	yekKhaste	rurumate, Has it any full stack web framework that can compare to rails?
03:39	arrdem	yekKhaste: no
03:39	rurumate	there are some web frameworks, but I'm no authority on that. I doubt it has something as mature as rails
03:40	arrdem	rurumate: maturity I would debate, we certainly have no monolitic web platform ala rails
03:40	rurumate	it's what I meant to say
03:41	yekKhaste	And do you recommended clojure for freelancer developers?
03:41	arrdem	I have freelanced with Clojure successfully before...
03:41	arrdem	many Clojure shops are contractors
03:41	rurumate	if you sell the source code to the client, better ask them if they want to maintain that
03:42	yekKhaste	Actual I am looking for some modern tool for rapid backend development
03:43	yekKhaste	I what too know cant I use clojure or not
03:44	arrdem	I don't think there's any way we can reasonably make that assessment for you
03:44	arrdem	I've used Clojure to build websites and contract as have others...
03:44	arrdem	it can be done
03:44	arrdem	whether it's appropriate for you... who knows
03:44	yekKhaste	arrdem, Thanks alot
03:45	arrdem	yekKhaste: sorry, that's the most helpfull answer I can give :/
04:16	sm0ke	,(def a (atom (proxy [Object] [] (finalize [] (println "OK gcd..")))))
04:16	clojurebot	#'sandbox/a
04:16	sm0ke	,(reset! a nil)
04:16	clojurebot	nil
04:16	sm0ke	,(System/gc)
04:16	clojurebot	nil
04:16	sm0ke	can someone tell why it is not gc'd
04:17	hyPiRion	sm0ke: you'd probably need to run the gc 4-5 times
04:18	sm0ke	ran it 40 time
04:18	sm0ke	nothing
04:18	hyPiRion	hm
04:19	sm0ke	,(repeatedly #(System/gc))
04:19	clojurebot	(nil nil nil nil nil ...)
04:19	sm0ke	no helo
04:19	sm0ke	no help either
04:20	opqdonut	sm0ke: a) there's no guarantee on running finalizers timely b) even if the finalizer was run, clojurebot might not print the line
04:20	sm0ke	opqdonut: i obviously was testing this on my machine!
04:20	opqdonut	that's what I thought :)
04:21	hyPiRion	well. The JVM doesn't guarantee that finalize is called on an object, so.
04:23	yocapybara	guys I'm being a dufus. Say I'm (/ 4 3) dividing 4 by 3, and I want to get 2 so to round up to nearest integer, I can't use quot as that rounds down, anything easy out of the box? or do I have to bring in BigDecimal?
04:23	sm0ke	wow, so i need to create a Java class to prove this now
04:24	pyrtsa	sm0ke: As nice as it would be, finalisers are not the way to deal with automatic cleanup of non-memory resources in Clojure.
04:24	pyrtsa	,(with-open [_ (reify java.lang.AutoCloseable (close [_] (println "closed")))] (println "working on it..."))
04:24	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: java.lang.AutoCloseable, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_FILE:0:0)>
04:24	pyrtsa	Doh.
04:24	pyrtsa	,(with-open [_ (reify java.io.Closeable (close [_] (println "closed")))] (println "working on it..."))
04:24	clojurebot	working on it...\nclosed\n
04:25	sm0ke	pyrtsa: i have a kind of situation where i cannot use with-open
04:25	pyrtsa	Macros (e.g. with-open) could be a way around it, though.
04:25	pyrtsa	Elaborate?
04:25	opqdonut	,(let [obj (proxy [Object] [] (finalize [] (println "OK gcd..")))] (.finalize obj))
04:25	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: finalize for class sandbox.proxy$java.lang.Object$ff19274a>
04:25	amalloy	sm0ke: out is not bound to anything while you're running a finalizer
04:25	opqdonut	^ that's fishy
04:25	opqdonut	amalloy: ah of course
04:25	opqdonut	run by the finalizer thread
04:25	pyrtsa	amalloy: Wow, didn't know!
04:26	pyrtsa	(inc amalloy)
04:26	lazybot	⇒ 181
04:26	sm0ke	ok then
04:26	hyPiRion	yocapybara: (defn div-up [a b] (quot (+ a b -1) b))
04:26	sm0ke	,(def b (atom 1))
04:26	clojurebot	#'sandbox/b
04:26	sm0ke	,(def a (atom (proxy [Object] [] (finalize [] (swap! b inc)))))
04:26	clojurebot	#'sandbox/a
04:26	hyPiRion	amalloy: I tried setting an atom. No response there either.
04:26	sm0ke	,(reset! a nil)
04:26	clojurebot	nil
04:27	sm0ke	,(repeatedly 100 #(System/gc))
04:27	clojurebot	(nil nil nil nil nil ...)
04:27	sm0ke	,@b
04:27	clojurebot	1
04:27	amalloy	opqdonut: i doubt if you're allowed to call finalize yourself. it's a protected method
04:27	sm0ke	well
04:27	sm0ke	,(repeatedly 100 #(System/gc))
04:27	clojurebot	(nil nil nil nil nil ...)
04:27	sm0ke	,@b
04:27	clojurebot	1
04:28	yocapybara	hyPiRion: that is intruiging, feel like my mind is turning to mush as I get older! - thanks, going to play in a repl
04:29	yocapybara	man I totally would have never have come up with that, I need to go back to junior high and retake math classes
04:29	sm0ke	,(repeatedly 100 #(System/gc))
04:29	clojurebot	(nil nil nil nil nil ...)
04:29	sm0ke	,@b
04:29	clojurebot	1
04:30	sm0ke	i am going to keep doing this unless java gives up...you stuPUID JAAVvaaaVAa
04:30	amalloy	sm0ke: do it in your own repl. nobody needs to see that pasted here over and over
04:30	sm0ke	:)
04:31	sm0ke	i think its a problem with proxy
04:31	amalloy	also, like...who cares? finalizers are a disastrous antipattern; no correct program can rely on finalizers ever being run: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2010/08/09/10047586.aspx
04:31	amalloy	it's a curiosity, of course, and i'd like to know why this isn't working here
04:32	amalloy	but cursing java seems like the wrong approach: any resolution you get here isn't really going to help you write a better program, as much as taking some other approach would help
04:33	hyPiRion	yocapybara: np – It's probably because I've tried to do round up integer divisions in the past :)
04:33	yocapybara	hyPiRion: I'm doing it in excel on loads of numbers to try to figure out what sorcery it is, man to think I used to do pages and pages of math in school :)
04:34	hyPiRion	It's not entirely foolproof though. I think I'd only use it for positive numbers.
04:35	yocapybara	hyPiRion: that's the context in which I'm using it so that's great
04:37	ro_st	using logback, i'd like to put everything in our code in one file, except for a couple namespaces, which i'd like to log to a different file. does anyone perhaps have an example logback.xml with this situation?
04:38	hyPiRion	yocapybara: Another way to write it is (+ 1 (quot (- a 1) b)) if that helps your understanding better.
04:38	hyPiRion	I think it should be easier to "see" why that one works
04:41	yocapybara	hyPiRion: thanks :) will put that alongside, yes I think I can already see that one more
05:19	justin_smith	rurumate: the reader can read records
05:30	justin_smith	,(defrecord Foo [x y])
05:30	clojurebot	sandbox.Foo
05:30	justin_smith	,(Foo. 0 1)
05:30	clojurebot	#sandbox.Foo{:x 0, :y 1}
05:30	justin_smith	,(= #sandbox.Foo{:x 0 :y 1} (Foo. 0 1))
05:30	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Record construction syntax can only be used when read-eval == true>
05:30	justin_smith	bleh
05:31	justin_smith	anyway, it can be read
05:31	justin_smith	(require '[clojure.edn :as edn])
05:31	justin_smith	,(require '[clojure.edn :as edn])
05:31	clojurebot	nil
05:32	justin_smith	,(edn/read-string "#sandbox.Foo{:x 0 :y 1}")
05:32	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: No reader function for tag sandbox.Foo>
05:38	justin_smith	rurumate: this stuff doesn't work with clojurebot, but it all works in a standard clojure process / project, including reader literals in files
05:40	rurumate	justin_smith: thanks
05:41	danners	hey what is the best free tutorial for clojure, assuming no previous functional expericence ?
05:42	scottj	danners: braveclojure.com is the most popular one recently
05:44	danners	scottj: thanks
05:49	dysfun	hi all. i'm building a securitymanager that prevents user-provided code from being naughty. where naughty is largely defined as "can open files, use the network, generally perform I/O". obviously i can only lock on a class level. is there any wider mechanism for banning those operations?
05:50	sm0ke	dysfun: best would be to sandbox the process imo
05:51	sm0ke	or you can take a look at ##(File. "ssss")
05:51	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unable to resolve classname: File
05:51	sm0ke	,(java.util.File. "aaa")
05:51	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: java.util.File, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
05:52	sm0ke	wowsad
05:52	sm0ke	,(java.io.File. "aaa")
05:52	clojurebot	#<File aaa>
05:52	sm0ke	hurmm oh
05:53	dysfun	exactly
05:53	dysfun	and let's not forget java.nio.* either
05:54	sm0ke	well File is just logical unless you do some operations further
05:54	sm0ke	,(slurp "/etc/hosts")
05:54	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: denied>
05:54	sm0ke	see
05:55	dysfun	yes, but how much is that restricted? can i for example check the existence of a file or read the contents of a directory?
05:57	dysfun	and where is the source for the bot's sandbox?
05:59	justin_smith	both clojurebot and lazybot are on github
05:59	dysfun	whose account?
05:59	justin_smith	$google github lazybot clojure
05:59	lazybot	[Raynes/lazybot · GitHub] https://github.com/Raynes/lazybot
05:59	justin_smith	$google github clojurebot
05:59	lazybot	[hiredman/clojurebot · GitHub] https://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot
06:00	dysfun	sweet
06:09	hugod	bbloom: stevedore was originally based on https://github.com/arohner/scriptjure
08:29	jonathanj	is there really no shorter way of writing (assoc xs (dec (count xs)) (str ":" (peek xs)))?
08:29	jonathanj	having to repeat "xs" three times seems crazy
08:30	clgv	jonathanj: time to write a function ^^
08:30	clgv	jonathanj: create a my-project.tools namespace and put that helper function there
08:32	clgv	jonathanj: e.g. (defn update-last [xs f & args] (apply update-in xs [(dec (count xs))] f args)) usable as (update-last [0 1 2] #(str ":" %))
08:33	clgv	,(defn update-last [xs f & args] (apply update-in xs [(dec (count xs))] f args))
08:33	clojurebot	#'sandbox/update-last
08:33	clgv	,(update-last [0 1 2] #(str ":" %))
08:33	clojurebot	[0 1 ":2"]
08:41	clgv	what is the recommended setup for tagged literals? such that they are usable in repl as well as in a standalone uberjar?
08:53	dysfun	the clojurebot sandbox. is the reason that it gets the parent of clojure.lang.RT's classloader so that it can load another version of clojure/
08:55	dysfun	sorry, not the clojurebot sandbox, classlojure
08:57	clgv	dysfun: what is the context question?
08:57	clgv	did they fix the memory leaks in classlojure yet?
08:58	dysfun	i have no idea. i haven't used classlojure before
08:58	clgv	humm 1 year no change - so I guess not
08:58	dysfun	the problem i'm trying to solve is loading plugins written in approximately any jvm language
08:58	dysfun	classlojure's code looks relatively straightforward to sort the classloader/only-load-from-this-jar problem
08:58	dysfun	the securitymanager, well, that's going to be tedious, i have no doubt
08:59	dysfun	however, i'm curious why they're doing a .getParent on clojure.lang.RT's classloader. the only reason i can think they would is because they explicitly advertise loading other versions of clojure
08:59	clgv	dysfun: there is clojail for the security stuff. it includes functions to configure jvm security mechanisms as well
09:00	dysfun	yes, i'm aware of clojail, but it seems targeted mostly at securing clojure, so we'll see how that one pans out
09:00	clgv	yeah but that includes the usual jvm stuff, afair
09:00	dysfun	nod. as i say, we'll see how it pans out
09:01	dysfun	if i can reuse it, of course i'm thrilled to not have to do the tedious stuff
09:01	clgv	I think it's mostly specifying white lists of what is allowed
09:03	clgv	dysfun: be aware that you can only spin up a small number of classlojure classloaders due to memory leaks, when you use classlojure
09:03	clgv	dysfun: I tried that a while back
09:03	dysfun	i am not using classlojure
09:03	clgv	ok ^^
09:04	dysfun	mostly because the actual part that i need is several lines of code
09:04	clgv	applies when loading custom clojure version in any classloader as well
09:04	dysfun	i don't intend to support that model. at least not just yet
09:04	clgv	at least for versions before 1.6
09:04	dysfun	i'll probably support loading 1.6 when 1.6.1 comes out
09:04	dysfun	but i can't see it actually breaking anything
09:05	clgv	huh? 1.7 will be next ;)
09:05	dysfun	oh
09:05	dysfun	in any case, i certainly have no intention of supporting clojure < 1.6
09:06	dysfun	i expect most of the plugins i'm loading will be java anyway
09:38	nicola	Hi, how to wrap InputStream into async channel?
09:42	ohpauleez	nicola: In the labs namespace, there's a function called `spool`that puts a sequence onto a channel
09:42	ohpauleez	you can get a sequence from the inputstream and spool it onto the channel: https://clojure.github.io/core.async/#clojure.core.async.lab/spool
09:43	ohpauleez	If you want to push an inputstream directly onto a channel without the extra allocations, you'll need to implement a new input stream that is passed the channel in the constructor
09:45	ApeShot	So I am having a very mysterious error in a clojure project: lein compile has suddenly started failing with a null pointer exception and all it tells me is that it is on core.clj:1
09:45	ApeShot	No information about which core (of which there are many)
09:45	teslanick	Does onto-chan not work with seqs?
09:45	ApeShot	How can I cajole lein into compiling one file at a time
09:45	ApeShot	Or get it to give me more verbose output
09:47	nicola	@ohpauleez thx
09:48	ohpauleez	nicola: teslanick: Good question - It should. spool can consume a lazy seq though (iirc), without realizing the entire seq
09:48	clgv	ApeShot: do you have a :main namespace?
09:48	nicola	@ohpauleez i want run long shell command and >! progress into channel
09:49	teslanick	ohpauleez: I hadn't thought of putting an infinite seq on a channel, but I can see why that would be useful.
09:49	ApeShot	Maybe I accidentally deleted it?
09:49	ApeShot	It is a play-clj template
09:49	ApeShot	So there is some magic I don't get
09:50	ApeShot	But i've been working and building the project successfully for quite some time
09:51	clgv	ApeShot: it is probably the core.clj in your project since you cant change those of the dependency libraries
09:51	ohpauleez	nicola: Yep, use `line-seq` and the io/reader. Then use spool with that seq and you should have what you're looking for
09:54	ApeShot	clgv: the play-clj template and usage doesn't have you define the main ns yourself
09:55	clgv	ApeShot: you didn't use a VCS by any chance?
09:55	the_danko	wow, just getting to macros in brave clojure! sweeet!
09:56	mikepence	oh, yeah
09:56	mikepence	hey, I am doing a presentation to our local Java UG tonight re: fp and clojure
09:56	mikepence	looking for some sample code to share, something public on github
09:56	mikepence	real-worldish
09:56	mikepence	not fib seq or other minimalist stuff
09:57	ApeShot	I hadn't yet put in a git repo
09:57	ApeShot	I know, stupid
09:57	clgv	ApeShot: then it would be a matter of a view minutes to find that error ;)
09:57	clgv	*few
09:58	ApeShot	clgv: That was the first thing I checked, and then remembered that I had been programming without a net
09:58	ApeShot	I have a back up that is a day old
09:58	ApeShot	Which still compiles
09:58	ApeShot	So I can laborously do ugly diggs
09:58	ApeShot	diffs
09:59	ApeShot	But I figured someone else might have an idea about how to target that search
09:59	ApeShot	Looking for the main ns might be the thing
09:59	clgv	ApeShot: you can use "meld" or similar to compare the whole project directories
09:59	ApeShot	I don't know how I could have messed it up
09:59	clgv	ApeShot: well not without seeing the code...
10:02	ApeShot	Ok, so my project.clj has a line : :main all-ghosts-vs-all-skeletons.core.desktop-launcher
10:03	ApeShot	And indeed this is the entry point of the project and it exists
10:03	japro	maybe that is a Halloween joke :o)
10:04	japro	oh wait, that is your project name i guess... nvm
10:04	clgv	ApeShot: on rethinking it that really does not matter, find the core.clj you wrote yourself
10:05	ApeShot	I have many
10:05	ApeShot	For different modules of the project
10:05	clgv	you have many core.clj in one project? O_o
10:05	stuartsierra	ApeShot: Comment out `:main`, do `lein clean`, start a REPL and `require` your namespaces one by one.
10:05	ApeShot	I know with each line my failure to use git makes me look dumb
10:05	CookedGryphon	What are people's opinions on side-effecting actions in transducers?
10:05	ApeShot	I'm sort of new to how people organize clojure projects, but mine has a variety slightly coupled components parts, each of which has a directory and a core
10:06	CookedGryphon	I'm re-writing a number of go-loops in my code to simply use transducers and pipes, which is fine for all the functional transformations that push on a different value down a different channel... but some of the go loops were listening to events and then acting as a result...
10:06	CookedGryphon	if I follow the pattern of converting to transducers, that means a side-effecting map
10:07	CookedGryphon	but leaving it as go-loops bugs me in other ways (not composable, etc)
10:07	TimMc	clgv: ++ for meld
10:07	clgv	TimMc: :D
10:07	clgv	if you can afford it, BeyondCompare is nice as well
10:10	stuartsierra	CookedGryphon: Transducers are evaluated "eagerly" so side-effects are generally less of a problem than they would be with lazy-seqs.
10:14	hyPiRion	stuartsierra: huh? I was under the impression that transducers doesn't enforce strictness nor laziness. Or perhaps that's why you wrote "eagerly".
10:15	CookedGryphon	stuartsierra: yeah, this was my quandry, I know that in this case it would work, but is it encouraged, or is there a better way to separate out the side effecty stuff...
10:15	stuartsierra	hyPiRion: Yeah, it depends on how you "consume" them.
10:15	rurumate	CookedGryphon: can you paste an example of how you're rewriting the go-loops using transducers? I'd like to see that thanks
10:15	stuartsierra	Like how I'm giving "advice" right now.
10:15	hyPiRion	right
10:16	CookedGryphon	or is it just a case of, I'm using it on a channel, I can expect it to process as it goes
10:16	CookedGryphon	sure, I'll try and pick a good example
10:17	stuartsierra	CookedGryphon: While I wouldn't necessarily say it's "wrong" to have a side-effect in a transduced process, I would be more inclined to try to isolate the side effects at the "end" of the process.
10:18	CookedGryphon	stuartsierra: indeed, and that's actually what's happening here
10:18	CookedGryphon	but I have an ulterior motive
10:18	stuartsierra	A side effecting fn can be passed to `run!` or used as the "sink" from a channel.
10:18	CookedGryphon	which is to reduce the number of namespaces depending on core.async macros, because it's a pain re-using the code in clojurescript
10:19	CookedGryphon	are you referring to a library fn run!, or is that a hypothetical fn I should write?
10:19	Bronsa	CookedGryphon: it's a new 1.7 function
10:19	Bronsa	,(doc run!)
10:20	clojurebot	"([proc coll]); Runs the supplied procedure (via reduce), for purposes of side effects, on successive items in the collection. Returns nil"
10:20	CookedGryphon	will that work with core.async channels?
10:20	puredanger	if you do channel things in it, that should be fine
10:21	puredanger	it doesn't know anything specifically about channels
10:22	CookedGryphon	other way round, I'm talking about doing a side effecting function for things being outputted from a channel
10:22	CookedGryphon	I don't think run helps me here
10:22	puredanger	no, don't think so
10:24	puredanger	so I guess you can't use a thread if you want this to work in cljs too
10:24	puredanger	seems like a go loop is probably your best bet in that case?
10:24	CookedGryphon	so yeah, without macros (i.e. just using pipes, transducers and other composable channel operations), what's the nicest way of having a sink function
10:25	CookedGryphon	which just does a side effecting thing on each element as it comes out of the channel
10:25	puredanger	isn't that obvious to write in a go loop?
10:25	CookedGryphon	yeah, and I wrote it the obvious way first time around
10:26	CookedGryphon	now it's structurally bitten me as none of the go-loop code is re-usable, adding functionality bloats the go loops because they're not composable
10:27	CookedGryphon	but this may well be one case where it's reasonable to leave it as a go loop
10:27	puredanger	I would try to put as little code as possible in the go loop and just keep it to primarily doing channel things and control flow
10:27	CookedGryphon	yep, which is exactly what I did
10:28	CookedGryphon	and I ended up with 4 lines of boilerplate for everything I wanted to do with go-loops
10:28	CookedGryphon	now I've rewritten most of the take a thing from these pipes, combine and put out to that pipe
10:28	CookedGryphon	as transducers and pipe operations
10:28	CookedGryphon	and it's lovely and concise
10:28	CookedGryphon	and composable
10:29	CookedGryphon	and so I'm exploring other options for this end point which takes a side effecting action on each item coming out of the channel
10:29	CookedGryphon	to see if there's a similar gain to be made
10:30	CookedGryphon	this rewrite also means I have taken the core.async dependency out of a lot of namespaces entirely, they just produce a transducer
10:30	puredanger	there definitely is a missing "sink" operation in core.async - there's a ticket for this out there
10:30	CookedGryphon	and the fact that it goes via async channels is now a detail which the caller is responsible
10:30	CookedGryphon	cool, I'll have a look and upvote it if I find it
10:31	puredanger	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/ASYNC-67
10:32	CookedGryphon	Yeah, that
10:32	CookedGryphon	In fact, I might just take that into my code as a utility
10:37	stuartsierra	puredanger: thanks for that link
10:40	puredanger	we are trying to bring async tickets into the same review process we use for Clojure itself but that has been slow to take hold
10:41	Bronsa	puredanger: I thought the point of contribs was to have a faster contribution process than clojure?
10:41	puredanger	async is special
10:42	puredanger	but it can also have releases independent of Clojure
10:42	puredanger	and that's actually why it's hard to integrate - the reports are focused around a target release and those dimensions differ between core and async
10:42	puredanger	I'm still trying to decide exactly how to deal with that
10:43	puredanger	it's possible that some of async could move into core in the future. I'm not foretelling anything… just saying that's a possibility.
10:44	Bronsa	clojurebot: core.async \|is\| special
10:44	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
10:44	puredanger	my personal opinion is that async is important enough to be in the box. but I also think it's still changing enough that I'd like to be able to release separately and more frequently. just my opinion / not speaking for Rich or anything official.
10:45	Bronsa	puredanger: ok, thanks
10:46	ssa	can you not `import` in the body of a namespace?
10:46	Bronsa	sure you can ssa
10:46	Bronsa	,Buffer
10:46	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: Buffer in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
10:47	Bronsa	,(import 'java.nio.Buffer)
10:47	clojurebot	java.nio.Buffer
10:47	Bronsa	,Buffer
10:47	clojurebot	java.nio.Buffer
10:47	Bronsa	^
10:47	ssa	cool, ok -- i am doing the following but am getting an exception:
10:47	ssa	(import 'org.apache.curator.retry.BoundedExponentialBackoffRetry)
10:47	ssa	(BoundedExponentialBackoffRetry. 100 120000 10)
10:47	Bronsa	ssa: what's the exception?
10:47	ssa	Unable to resolve classname: BoundedExponentialBackoffRetry
10:48	borkdude	object oriented programming: the blind leading the blind (haha, sorry, just wanted to rant)
10:48	Bronsa	ssa: is the import statement in the top-level?
10:48	ssa	also happens when i do (import [org.apache.curator.retry BoundedExponentialBackoffRetry])
10:48	ssa	no
10:48	ssa	it's in a function
10:48	Bronsa	ssa: that's your issue
10:48	ssa	ah awesome -- what's going on?
10:49	Bronsa	ssa: import works at runtime, class literals are resolved at compile time
10:50	Bronsa	ssa: also in your second import example, you're missing the quote
10:51	Bronsa	ssa: remember require/import/use & co are functions so when you're using them outside the ns macro, you need to quote the args
10:51	ssa	Bronsa: ah yes, got it
10:52	ssa	to describe what I'm trying to do: I want to make a retry policy configurable, and don't want to import unnecessary classes
10:52	ssa	ie, didn't want to import all retry policies
10:59	mavbozo	ssa: if you know which classes that you will eventually use, why not import them all?
10:59	mavbozo	ssa: any particular restriction from environment?
11:00	ssa	mavbozo: maybe I am wrong here; I am running that snippet of code in a prismatic graph node, which I am using as a config
11:01	ssa	mavbozo: ie, I know a retry policy will be specified by the user, but I don't know which one
11:01	ssa	mavbozo: is there no cost to importing everything?
11:03	mavbozo	ssa: jvm will use more Permanent Generation memory
11:04	mavbozo	ssa: but you can see the usage from, for example, jconsole
11:10	puredanger	in <= Clojure 1.6, importing a class will also cause it to be loaded, which is in some cases problematic
11:11	puredanger	that behavior is actually changing in 1.7
11:11	puredanger	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1315
11:11	ApeShot	So the issue I mentioned above is quite mysterious
11:11	ApeShot	I commented out everything except for a naked skeleton in my entry point
11:11	ApeShot	And then it compiled
11:12	ApeShot	I gradually added everything back until it was at the original state and all compiled
11:12	ApeShot	I then did lein clean && lein build and I get the null pointer problem
11:12	ApeShot	excuse me, lein run
11:12	ApeShot	To make it go away, I have to comment everything out again, lein run, then uncomment out and lein run
11:12	ApeShot	It runs fine when it builds
11:12	ApeShot	no errors
11:13	ApeShot	But it seems that after a lein clean I must go through this ritual of commenting down to a trivial version
11:13	ApeShot	And then building, and then uncommenting out my code
11:13	ApeShot	Does this ring any bells with anyone?
11:13	sdegutis	Hi. What's a good local file backup setup for local files, including closed source Clojure repos?
11:13	ApeShot	Sounds like some stile class files are hanging around or something
11:13	sdegutis	I know redundancy is important, and I've heard the word RAID tossed around...
11:14	mavbozo	ApeShot: i remember a discussion a few months ago here. someone solve that kind of problems just by creating a new directory and copy every file to the new directory
11:16	ApeShot	mavbozo: I sort of did that. I might create a clean structure from the same template and copy the files in
11:16	ApeShot	See if that helps
11:16	clgv	ApeShot: sounds more like your project is somehow relying on stub class files that are not around after "lein clean"
11:16	clgv	ApeShot: thats theological computer science then ;)
11:16	ApeShot	clgv: how might I figure out where those classes are, then?
11:16	ApeShot	clgv: or what sort of code might generate them?
11:17	clgv	ApeShot: does the documentation of the libraries/frameworks you use state that some namespaces need to be AOT compiled?
11:17	ApeShot	clgv: this is for a game jam ending on the 31st, so I am not above computer science theology
11:17	ApeShot	I'm just using play-clj
11:18	ApeShot	And my own library cljan, which doesn't do anything fancy
11:18	ApeShot	Well, it does fancy things, but not so far as the administration of the project is concerned
11:18	ApeShot	Nothing in the play-clj docs indicates any such thing
11:19	clgv	can you post the complete stack trace?
11:19	clgv	you can do (compile 'my.evil.namespace) on the repl and then use clojure.stacktrace/print-cause-trace
11:20	ApeShot	when the problem happens, I can't even do `lein repl`
11:20	ApeShot	I get the same error
11:20	ApeShot	Can I ask lein to start a repl without trying to load the main ns?
11:21	clgv	yeah you can just comment out the :main line
11:21	ApeShot	In my project.clj
11:21	ApeShot	?
11:21	clgv	yes
11:21	ApeShot	Cool
11:21	ApeShot	Thanks.
11:22	clgv	remove the namespace from :aot vector as well, if it is listed there
11:22	technomancy	lein update-in : assoc :main clojure.core -- repl
11:22	ApeShot	Incidentally, I have had some success building play-clj projects for android
11:22	clgv	technomancy: awesome. "update-in" is new to me
11:22	technomancy	clgv: it's a fun one
11:22	ApeShot	But I keep reading that the dalvik GC isn't really up to game-like functionality for clojure's memory profile
11:23	technomancy	err... dissoc :main, of course
11:23	clgv	technomancy: what was the procedure to get full stacktraces from leiningen when for example "lein repl" fails? some environment variable?
11:23	ApeShot	What is the newest intuition about this?
11:23	technomancy	clgv: proably something in :repl-options
11:25	clgv	technomancy: humm there is only :caught in the sample - that sounds as if it is operating in a running repl. I meant when the repl startup fails with an exception
11:29	clgv	ApeShot: can you report what "DEBUG=true lein repl" or same with "lein run" outputs?
11:37	SagiCZ1	i get this when running lein test: Could not locate project_name/core_test__init.class or project_name/core_test.clj
11:39	clgv	SagiCZ1: so you have a require/use somewhere that wants to load project-name/core.test
11:39	clgv	err: project-name/core-test
11:39	andyf_	SagiCZ1: Not sure, but perhaps that is a sign of a mismatch between file names and namespaces defined in them? If you are willing to try out Eastwood, it checks for that quite quickly. https://github.com/jonase/eastwood#installation--quick-usage
11:40	conner	What would be the most idiomatic way to turn ["x: FOO" 1 2 3 "x: BAR" 4 5 6] into { "FOO" [1 2 3] "BAR" [4 5 6] }?
11:41	bbloom	lein removed support for jars in lib/ really?
11:41	bbloom	that's annoying as hell.
11:43	cbryan	now i remember why i don't use xchat
11:43	cbryan	sorry for the leavejoin spam
11:43	ipostelnik	conner (->> (partition-by #(.startsWith % "x: ")) (map (juxt first rest)) (into {}))
11:44	SagiCZ1	andyf_: You got it right, i was renaming my project and forgot to renaim dependencies in the test ns
11:44	SagiCZ1	(inc andyf_)
11:44	lazybot	⇒ 4
11:46	cbryan	thanks ipostelnik! im reading the docs on ->>, it seems like it 'just' prevents a sort of nested-hell?
11:46	nextstep	hello, what's the clojure way for expressing the following pattern. I have some function for mapping stuff in a collection. Some operation inside that function (calling an external program or a service) is very inefficient if i call it just item by item. How can i cleanly group these while still preserving the 1-by-1 mapping???
11:46	lazybot	nextstep: Yes, 100% for sure.
11:48	CookedGryphon	you could do partition on the output and doseq over the resulting batches
11:49	dbasch	either pmap or futures
11:49	andyf_	nextstep: If the collection you are mapping over can be treated as a generic sequence, you could use partition, and then concat afterwards if you want to put the groups back together.
11:49	cbryan	i just started clojure 3 days ago, and every time i find out about something like `partition-by` I get goosebumps. joy of clojure, indeed
11:49	SagiCZ1	~pmap
11:49	clojurebot	pmap is not what you want
11:49	clgv	true
11:53	nextstep	yeah i think pmap is not a good solution, and i cannot see how partition would not entangle things either. i want to preserve my simple mapping function
11:53	nextstep	perhaps futures?
11:54	nextstep	as dbasch mentioned?
11:54	arohner	nextstep: I'd use partition & concat
11:55	arohner	also, core.async much better for parallel processing rather than futures
11:55	andyf_	futures by themselves won?t group multiple items together.
11:55	clgv	nextstep: can you b more specific. do you just want to group according to a criterion or do you want to parallelize expensive computation?
11:57	nextstep	clgv: i have a very big stream, and i apply a simple map to each element
11:57	nextstep	inside the mapping function
11:57	nextstep	i call an external program
11:57	nextstep	but i want to call this program with batches of items, not just an item at a time
11:57	clgv	well then you have to explicitely partition the items and map over those partitions
11:58	clgv	provided the external program supports batches
11:59	clgv	e.g. (defn map-batched [size f coll] (apply concat (map f (partition-all size coll))))
11:59	puredanger	you map find the core.async pipeline function to be useful
12:00	nextstep	clgv: yes, the external program supports batches
12:00	clgv	nextstep: you can do something as shown above where `f` gets a list of elements, calls your program and returns a list of results
12:01	nextstep	but i want to avoid that my f function deals with multiple elements
12:01	nextstep	so i was thinking of using async
12:01	nextstep	and inside the f function sending items that get grouped
12:01	nextstep	and then forwarded to the external program
12:01	nextstep	i have many f functions, some have to deal with batches, some dont
12:02	nextstep	so it gets very messy
12:02	clgv	I am not sure about the side constraints of your scenario
12:04	clgv	you should make explicit descriptions what the interface to that program is conceptually and what exactly your "different functions" are (clojure functions? calls to the program with different parameters? ...)
12:06	nextstep	clgv: the functions just take one parameter, the element of the collection to map
12:06	nextstep	the external functions take many of these
12:07	clgv	what are "external functions"?
12:07	nextstep	unix programs that take thousands of items in one go
12:07	nextstep	or REST services
12:08	clgv	ok.
12:08	andyf_	I?m pretty sure I?ve heard comments about core.async such as ?and it didn?t require changes to Clojure at all. Clojure is such that it could be implemented just as a library.? That is certainly true, but does it seem slightly disingenuous, in that part of that library is a reimplementation of most of the Clojure compiler (i.e. tools.analyzer{,.jvm,.js}) ?
12:08	andyf_	ugh. stupid smart quotes
12:08	nextstep	clgv: therefore grouping items makes it much faster
12:08	danners	so i am reading through http://www.braveclojure.com/ and now i am on the vampire example. i get following error in the replArityException Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core/map clojure.lang.AFn.throwArity (AFn.java:429) . how do i know where my mistake in my clojure program is from this?
12:08	nextstep	but i want to hide that from the main program
12:09	nextstep	this is probably some kind of Go pattern, forward stuff to a proxy that groups calls and gets back with results
12:09	clgv	nextstep: ok. so where is the problem to just write one function that deals with batching, sending to external program and concatenating the results again. this function would completely hide the abtching except for a batch size parameter
12:09	nextstep	but havent figured out
12:09	nextstep	yes
12:10	nextstep	but i havent been able to figure out a clean solution
12:10	cbryan	danners: check the stack trace
12:10	SagiCZ1	danners: hi, this means that the map didnt get the correct number of args
12:10	clgv	well I gave you a sketch of it above. you just have to specify what the variable part is that changes
12:11	SagiCZ1	cbryan: i have never found my mistake using stacktrace in clojure
12:11	cbryan	should be like "AFN.throw...AFN.invoke...yournamespace.yourtcode (blah.clj:2025)"
12:11	danners	cbryan: ah thanks
12:11	clgv	nextstep: can't you come up with examples how the map+batch should be invoked?
12:11	danners	thats why it also shows the stacktrace...
12:11	cbryan	SagiCZ1: yeah, but he asked how to know where the error was :)
12:12	nextstep	clgv: (defn map-batched [size f coll] (apply concat (map f
12:12	nextstep	(partition-all size coll))))
12:12	nextstep	you mean this sketch?
12:12	justin_smith	ApeShot: just reading some scrollback, FYI it's normal to include a larger variety of things in one clj namespace than in eg. a java class file. And a project need not have any core.clj file, not to mention having more than one. Lein templates use that name because they need something generic, but a more descriptive name for a namespace is always better.
12:13	clgv	yeah. it shows a basic principle - I couldnt be more specific since I have no idea what a variable `f` would look like in your case.
12:13	noncom	i need to support clojure syntax and formatting in emacs, but without support for anything else clojure - what is my best option ?
12:14	clgv	so in that example it is a function that executes on batches, could also be change to (defn map-batched [size call-external coll] (apply concat (map (fn [coll] (call-external (prepare-params coll))) (partition-all size coll))))
12:15	nextstep	clgv: ok let me figure this out, only started using clojure a few days ago, so im a bit slow :)
12:17	clgv	nextstep: ok, just identify the changing params to such a function as sketched above
12:19	nextstep	clgv: i dont think i get your proposed solution. I want to call the external program from inside the mapping function like (map (fn [i] ... (call-external j)) coll)
12:20	nextstep	my mapping function makes some changes to the item i of the collection coll
12:20	nextstep	on a case per case basis
12:21	nextstep	so i think its the only way to go, and hide from the function the fact that calling this program on a case per case basis is expensive
12:21	clgv	nextstep: well, separate the manipulation of the elements from the sending to the program
12:22	clgv	nextstep: you can easily do (map call-external (map preprocess-element coll))
12:22	clgv	nextstep: then it is easy to sneak in the batching
12:23	clgv	e.g. (map-batched 100 call-external (map preprocess-element coll))
12:24	CookedGryphon	Is there a way to get a channel which closes at the same time as a mult, but doesn't get any of the values out of it
12:24	CookedGryphon	without tapping and just filtering everything
12:26	clgv	nextstep: the same applies to postprocessing btw
12:27	nextstep	clgv: aha, ok
12:28	nextstep	clgv: thanks for your patient explanations :)
12:28	clgv	you are welcome
12:30	EvanR	can i get a map pretty print that is actually readable?
12:31	EvanR	alternating lines of keyname value on the same column is not
12:32	justin_smith	EvanR: beyond a certain size clojure.pprint does the right thing
12:32	EvanR	i disagree
12:33	justin_smith	oh, I misread what you were saying
12:33	llasram	EvanR: you can try https://github.com/brandonbloom/fipp
12:33	SagiCZ1	,(clojure.pprint/pprint {:a 0 :b 2})
12:33	clojurebot	#<ClassNotFoundException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.pprint>
12:33	justin_smith	so what behavior do you actually want?
12:33	EvanR	i cant see where entries begin or end
12:33	borkdude	I miss a decent pretty printer that is usable from clojure and clojurescript
12:34	EvanR	ive take this for granted so much i can only think of php's print_r as an example of showing a map
12:34	clgv	llasram: fipp is not much better than pprint
12:34	EvanR	which i know sounds ridiculous
12:35	justin_smith	EvanR: is that so much different? you get keys in one column, vals in another
12:35	llasram	clgv: Except that it's much easier to modify how it prints
12:35	bbloom	clgv: what's the problem?
12:35	EvanR	pprint is optimizing for having very little screen width, which makes sense in intellij
12:35	EvanR	justin_smith: i dont get keys in one column values in another
12:35	justin_smith	EvanR: the width is configurable
12:35	bbloom	both clojure.pprint and fipp offer configurable widths
12:35	EvanR	oh really
12:36	bbloom	do you want pretty printing for debugging?
12:36	bbloom	tree whidbey
12:36	bbloom	try* whidbey rather
12:36	EvanR	yes, and ok. checking on this width thing
12:36	bbloom	https://github.com/greglook/whidbey
12:36	EvanR	"miser-width"
12:37	borkdude	bbloom does that also work with a browser repl?
12:37	bbloom	borkdude: no
12:37	clgv	llasram: yeah some options are better to use
12:37	SagiCZ1	once i change ns from 'user' i cant access pprint anymore via 'pprint' .. someone suggested 'injections' in leiningen but it doesnt work for me.. what can i do to be able to always use pprint whenever i want?
12:37	bbloom	EvanR: i'm bias, as i wrote fipp and whidbey is built on fipp, but if you're looking for a good pretty printer for interactive debugging, whidbey is the way to go
12:38	bbloom	EvanR: it's faster and the output is less ambiguous (ie supports records and things) compared to pprint
12:38	clgv	llasram: bbloom: but I didnt gain much with fipp in comparison to pprint for nested data structure
12:38	EvanR	how do i configure this global variable, print-miser-width
12:38	bbloom	clgv: but you lose the multi-second delay that sometimes happens when printing large structures with clojure.pprint
12:40	clgv	bbloom: I didn't want to criticize your lib in general. I just wanted to provide the information that I experienced the same with respect to how hash-maps are printed
12:40	bbloom	clgv: i'm not insulted, don't worry :-P i'd like to improve it, if you can explain what's wrong
12:41	EvanR	set! set def
12:41	clgv	bbloom: well that would probably lead to a general lib to format clojure code ;)
12:41	SagiCZ1	so how can i keep pprint loaded in repl no matter in what ns i am?
12:41	bbloom	clgv: fipp has recently added a code pretty printer
12:41	Shayanjm	are there any well-supported distributed programming packages for clojure?
12:41	justin_smith	,(require 'clojure.pprint)
12:41	clojurebot	nil
12:41	bbloom	clgv: but it makes no effort to beautify code. that's a non-goal
12:41	Shayanjm	or is it mostly "just use hadoop"?
12:42	clgv	bbloom: ah nice.
12:42	justin_smith	,(binding [clojure.pprint/print-miser-width 200 clojure.pprint/print-right-margin 500](clojure.pprint/pprint {:a 0 :b 1 :c 2 :d 3 :e 4 :f 5 :g 6 :h 7 :i 8 :j 9 :k 10 :l 11}))
12:42	clojurebot	{:e 4, :l 11, :k 10, :g 6, :c 2, ...}\n
12:42	noonian	SagiCZ1: you can also construct your own user namespace and require what you like there
12:42	cbryan	Shayanjm: Storm
12:42	justin_smith	,(clojure.pprint/pprint {:a 0 :b 1 :c 2 :d 3 :e 4 :f 5 :g 6 :h 7 :i 8 :j 9 :k 10 :l 11})
12:42	clojurebot	{:e 4, :l 11, :k 10, :g 6, :c 2, ...}\n
12:42	Shayanjm	cbryan: much appreciated, will look into it
12:42	Shayanjm	will be building a big crawler/scraper project
12:42	bbloom	clgv: fipp provides generic pretty printing infrastructure for fast pretty printers. where pretty printing is defined as an indenter that respects the right margin
12:42	Shayanjm	will likely need a LOT of parallelization
12:42	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: so whenever i change ns i have to call the require function? sure there must be a better way..
12:42	bbloom	full on code beautification is a much harder problem and one for which a generic infrastructure can't make good performance promises
12:42	mdrogalis	Shayanjm: If you can afford a little more risk with a newer project, I released Onyx about a month ago.
12:43	justin_smith	EvanR: without the truncation clojurebot does, one of those would have had newlines, the other not
12:43	cbryan	Shayanjm: https://storm.apache.org/
12:43	Shayanjm	mdrogalis: could probably afford risk. I'll look into both. What does onyx provide over storm?
12:43	SagiCZ1	bbloom: yeah, you need fuzzy logic and genetic algorithms!
12:43	bbloom	SagiCZ1: not really, but you do need context sensitivity
12:43	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: not change ns? I wasn't showing that to demonstrate how you should handle things though, I was trying to demonstrate the pprint control parameters
12:43	technomancy	SagiCZ1: there is no good in-clojure solution for keeping stuff like pprint available everywhere. IMO that needs to be handled by your repl tools.
12:43	mdrogalis	Shayanjm: https://github.com/MichaelDrogalis/onyx/blob/0.3.x/doc/user-guide/what-does-it-offer.md
12:43	bbloom	which you can encode in to your transformation from your source data in to the "pretty document" format of fipp
12:44	EvanR	justin_smith: i have to wrap every pprint in this binding?
12:44	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: oh sorry
12:44	Shayanjm	interesting mdrogalis
12:44	justin_smith	EvanR: or you could set those bindings at the top level with the help of lein
12:44	Shayanjm	are you actively maintaining the project?
12:44	cbryan	mdrogalis: very cool
12:44	bbloom	but choosing an optimal layout may involve speculatively trying various layouts, which fipp explicitly disallows b/c it can be slow
12:44	SagiCZ1	so when developing do you usually stay in user ns and load everything in there?
12:45	mdrogalis	Thanks. Next release might be out tomorrow morning. One more bug I want to fix before I unleash a bunch more features.
12:45	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: I make experiments in the user ns, define the final version of my code in a file, then require that file
12:45	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: that's not the only way to do it of course
12:47	EvanR	justin_smith: well, now its all on one line
12:48	clgv	SagiCZ1: I am a namespace nomad. always switching to the namespaces where I need to dev something - or in a namespace that is using the ns to change
12:49	justin_smith	EvanR: I still have no idea what behavior you are actually looking for, you named a php function I googled it, and it had things in two columns in the example I saw
12:49	EvanR	i have yet to get pprint to do that
12:49	EvanR	even that
12:50	technomancy	SagiCZ1: I typically use cider commands instead of calling tooling like that in the repl
12:50	technomancy	SagiCZ1: nrepl-discover makes it super easy to expose arbitrary functions like pprint or trace from cider
12:50	EvanR	i can coerce it to do one of two things. one is {k v k v k v k v} the other is
12:50	EvanR	k
12:50	technomancy	should be easy to do from vim or ccw or whatever too
12:50	EvanR	v
12:50	EvanR	k
12:50	EvanR	v
12:50	justin_smith	EvanR: do you have long v values?
12:51	EvanR	no they are all nested other things
12:51	EvanR	i have a string at the bottom somewhere which is "SecondAndFurtherGivenNamesOrInitialsThereof"
12:52	EvanR	if it just always did
12:52	EvanR	k v
12:52	EvanR	k v
12:52	EvanR	regardless of content then i would be ok
12:54	EvanR	heres an example http://codepad.org/1zndckFV
12:54	EvanR	of what pprint never does
12:54	EvanR	for me
12:57	bbloom	EvanR: that code is not pretty printed with respect to a right column, it's simply indented
12:58	SagiCZ1	justin_smith, clgv, technomancy thanks for opinions, interesting to see that there is not just one "correct" way
12:58	bbloom	EvanR: if you set the width to 0 (or 1?), you can force maximum indenting
12:58	EvanR	ill try that
12:59	bbloom	the reason you don't typically see json style indenters for lisps is b/c they are practically useless
12:59	bbloom	most sequences are short enough that it doesn't make sense to spread them over multiple lines
13:00	bbloom	and since lists are so common, it would be hideous to see "(\t\nfoo\t\nbar\n)"
13:00	EvanR	i dont have a single list
13:00	EvanR	this is a map
13:00	bbloom	sure, so if yuo really just want indenting for it, then set the width to 1
13:00	EvanR	i set the width to zero, and it did some stuff, seems like everything except put the k and value not on alternating lines with the same colum
13:01	bbloom	i can't speak for pprint with width = 1, but my library fipp will do what you expect
13:02	bbloom	whidbey probably will do the right thing too, but I can't say for sure as it's only using my printing engine, not my specific printer
13:02	EvanR	that is to say, width zero causes k and v to be on alternating lines
13:02	bbloom	EvanR: may i ask why you want this anyway?
13:02	bbloom	ie why is the default behavior not good enough?
13:02	EvanR	i cant read my json-like data?
13:03	EvanR	k
13:03	EvanR	v
13:03	EvanR	k
13:03	EvanR	v
13:03	EvanR	i cannot read it
13:03	EvanR	anymore than if it was k v k v k v on one line
13:03	EvanR	in this case, it is the transpose, all on one column
13:03	EvanR	with no separation
13:04	bbloom	shrug ok well, most people find it more readable for small collections to be horizontally laid out, so i don't really know if i can help you
13:04	bbloom	try fipp with width set to 1
13:04	bbloom	it always keeps key/value pairs together on a single line no matter what
13:04	tolstoy	ll
13:04	tolstoy	Oops. ;)
13:04	EvanR	also, the default behavior does indent, by one space. which is fine, but its just incomprehensible with the k v on alternating lines, which i guess its calling "miser style"
13:04	EvanR	bbloom: small collections?
13:05	EvanR	just to be clear, its not horizontally laid out, its very vertical
13:06	bbloom	EvanR: i understand, but you don't: pprint (and fipp) attempt to make a non-stupid layout. they do not blindly indent everything
13:07	bbloom	things will be laid out horizontally if they fit, or vertically if they don't
13:07	bbloom	hence width = 1 means nothing fits
13:07	bbloom	however, clojure.pprint will let keys and values be separate, fipp will not
13:07	bbloom	so try fipp with width = 1
13:07	EvanR	i can see where the reasoning came from for this
13:08	katratxo	hi all, any hints on changing the logging level of a namespace at runtime? i'm using tools.logging
13:08	bbloom	try (clojure.pprint/pprint [(repeat 3 :short) (repeat 10 :some-longer-keyword)]) and you'll understand
13:09	EvanR	i have a lot of horizontal space, but if i set the width to very wide, it will do k vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv k vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv which im trying to say is very in convenient
13:09	justin_smith	katratxo: there is such thing as per namespace variable logging levels in tools.logging?
13:09	bbloom	EvanR: i'm done with this conversation until you tell me you've tried fipp with width = 1
13:09	EvanR	ill say again, im talking about record-like maps, with field names and keys, its not some generic collection concept
13:09	clgv	justin_smith: there is per java class
13:10	EvanR	fipp is installed, trying
13:10	bbloom	(fipp.edn/pprint {:foobar 123 :baz "asdfasdf"} {:width 1}) does exactly the thing you want
13:11	katratxo	justin_smith: not sure about that ... the documentation suggests that you can define the logging level of a namespace (at least with log4j)
13:12	clgv	katratxo: yeah I have seen it per java class
13:13	justin_smith	katratxo: oh, I did not see anything like that in the api overview doc page. But timbre explicitly supports per-namespace control
13:13	clgv	katratxo: you can modify system properties for logging
13:14	samflores	is there some roadmap for core.async leaving alpha?
13:15	clgv	samflores: sssshhh! you are openening pandora's box :P
13:15	samflores	👀
13:15	EvanR	im getting no namespace fipp.edn
13:16	EvanR	and no namespace fipp.clojure
13:16	katratxo	justin_smith: do you know if timbre can capture the System.out and redirect it to a log? similar to log/with-logs ?
13:16	bbloom	EvanR: i'm happy to offer you support for fipp, but i'll leave general "how do i use clojure" support to the rest of the channel
13:16	EvanR	yeah
13:16	justin_smith	katratxo: not sure, doesn't it use tools.logging?
13:16	clgv	samflores: last time this discussion happened, I had the impression that the maintainers think that human rememberable versions have no use
13:17	katratxo	justin_smith: will check it out ... thanks
13:22	EvanR	frustrated now
13:23	EvanR	i have [fipp "0.5.1"] in my project.clj, lein deps does nothing
13:23	EvanR	(require '[fipp.edn]) in lein repl gives CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: record? in this context, compiling:(fipp/edn.clj:42:11)
13:23	samflores	clgv, I guess I'll wait quietly then
13:24	llasram	EvanR: That function was added in Clojure 1.6
13:25	llasram	EvanR: Using an older version?
13:25	EvanR	Clojure 1.5.1
13:25	llasram	Well there you go
13:26	EvanR	what am i doing with an old version
13:26	llasram	A question humans throughout history have asked themselves
13:27	EvanR	this is ubuntu 14.04
13:27	llasram	eh?
13:27	llasram	EvanR: Clojure version is per-project, a feature of what you have in your Leiningen project.clj
13:27	EvanR	oh k
13:28	bbloom	if you installed leinigen with apt, you should uninstall it and use the preferred install method
13:28	bbloom	http://leiningen.org/
13:28	EvanR	[org.clojure/clojure "1.5.1"] is in my project file so that explains that, also i installed leiningen the way the site told me to
13:29	llasram	Awesome
13:29	EvanR	so ubuntu fortunately has nothing to do with it
13:29	technomancy	babilen: hate to be a broken record, but what's the odds of lein2 getting into debian jessie?
13:29	EvanR	so fipp depends on a particular version of clojure
13:30	bbloom	EvanR: a minimum version of clojure, yes
13:30	EvanR	shouldnt lein deps tell me?
13:30	EvanR	good time to go to lunch
13:31	technomancy	EvanR: there's no way to distinguish between "minimum version" and "recommended version" in pom-speak
13:31	EvanR	pom pom ...
13:31	EvanR	Project Object Model
13:33	technomancy	EvanR: however, lein deps :tree will warn you about this
13:33	technomancy	[org.clojure/clojure "1.5.1"] overrides [fipp "0.5.1"] -> [org.clojure/clojure "1.6.0"]
13:44	csd_	where's the best place to host a small clojure web app for free?
13:44	r4vi	heroku
13:45	csd_	r4vi: only downside there is they use postgres and i made this with mysql :-/
13:45	technomancy	there are mysql addons too; we just don't run them ourselves
13:45	technomancy	but, maybe that's a good excuse to stop using mysql =)
13:46	csd_	technomancy: you work for heroku?
13:46	technomancy	yeah
13:46	csd_	cool
13:47	technomancy	lemme know if you have any questions
13:47	csd_	technomancy: do you think the server will complain if my app does some minor web scraping?
13:47	technomancy	csd_: shouldn't be a problem
13:47	technomancy	I mean, please respect the terms of service of the site being scraped, but that has nothing to do with us =)
13:52	xeqi	EvanR: `lein deps :tree` should produce some warnings about version mismatches, though that was broken for a couple of point releases in 2.4.*
14:32	justin_smith	,(deref (doto (promise) (deliver :ping)))
14:32	clojurebot	:ping
14:49	borkdude	,(chan)
14:49	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: chan in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:50	justin_smith	borkdude: I don't think clojurebot will do anything with threads
14:51	justin_smith	borkdude: blame the bot quine
14:51	borkdude	justin_smith you don't need threads per se for core.async right
14:51	justin_smith	borkdude: I guess we could port clj core.async to clojurebot?
14:51	borkdude	justin_smith clojurescript
14:52	justin_smith	borkdude: sure, but clojurebot is not clojurescript
14:52	justin_smith	point being we would need a clj version of core.async that did not use threads
14:52	borkdude	justin_smith k, well, one liners don't work well with core.async anyway probably
14:53	justin_smith	borkdude: yeah. I would make it easier to show people with questions how core.async stuff works though
14:53	justin_smith	s/I/It
14:56	justin_smith	borkdude: actually, a cljsbot would be good too
14:56	borkdude	justin_smith yeah
14:57	justin_smith	I wonder if there is a way to do that that isn't totally insane
14:57	borkdude	{ (js/alert "haha"} }
14:57	borkdude	justin_smith could look at clojurescript.net?
15:01	justin_smith	yeah, that would likely be a good start
15:02	justin_smith	borkdude: they link to this as their source https://github.com/kanaka/clojurescript
15:03	justin_smith	mix that with Raynes irc lib, and bob's your uncle
15:04	perplexa	is there a better way to do (fn [a & option] (or option "default"))?
15:05	justin_smith	,((fn [a & option] (or option "default")) nil nil)
15:05	clojurebot	(nil)
15:06	justin_smith	,((fn [a & [option]] (or option "default")) nil nil)
15:06	clojurebot	"default"
15:06	danielszmulewicz	I would like to emit javascript to a string. Not via the cljs build process, but by using the compiler directly from source. Input is some clojure form (defn three+three [] (+ 3 3)), output should be: "node_test.core.three_PLUS_three = (function three_PLUS_three(){return ((3) + (3));" How do I achieve that?
15:07	perplexa	ah, so & pushes the following params into a seq
15:07	justin_smith	perplexa: yeah, because it takes any number of params
15:08	perplexa	yeah makes sense :)
15:23	SagiCZ1	would it benefit me to create a memoized version of count? i use count often and the linear time is really slow for me
15:24	mgaare	SagiCZ1: do you often find yourself counting the same thing multiple times?
15:25	SagiCZ1	mgaare: yeah
15:26	SagiCZ1	i guess thats a bad design though
15:26	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: you could use vectors or sets instead of lazy-seqs where applicable, they implement count in constant time
15:26	SagiCZ1	vectors count is constant?
15:26	justin_smith	yup
15:26	SagiCZ1	thats cool then, i use vectors mostly
15:26	bbloom	SagiCZ1: putting a memo table at the call site is likely to be a memory management nightmare -- justin_smith is right, prefer better data structures
15:26	SagiCZ1	thanks
15:27	mmeix	If I want to partition a sequence of numbers, so that consecutive numbers are packed into separate vectors like so:
15:27	mmeix	[1 2 3 5 6 9 12 13] => '([1 2 3] [5 6] [9] [12 13])
15:27	mmeix	partition-by doesn't help me much, because it only looks at one element at a time
15:27	justin_smith	mmeix: it can be done in a one-liner with reduce
15:29	mmeix	ok, I guessed this to be a case for reduce
15:29	mmeix	but didn't get it - will think further
15:29	hyPiRion	reduce, transduce
15:30	mmeix	ok
15:30	mmeix	thanks
15:32	justin_smith	,(def input [1 2 3 5 6 9 12 13])
15:32	clojurebot	#'sandbox/input
15:32	justin_smith	,(reduce (fn [[acc contig] n] (if (= (inc (peek contig)) n) [acc (conj contig n)] [(conj acc contig) [n]])) [[] [(first input)]] (rest input))
15:32	clojurebot	[[[1 2 3] [5 6] [9]] [12 13]]
15:32	justin_smith	wait, that's a bit off isn't it :)
15:33	justin_smith	,(apply conj (reduce (fn [[acc contig] n] (if (= (inc (peek contig)) n) [acc (conj contig n)] [(conj acc contig) [n]])) [[] [(first input)]] (rest input)))
15:33	clojurebot	[[1 2 3] [5 6] [9] [12 13]]
15:33	SagiCZ1	beautiful
15:35	justin_smith	heh, thanks
15:37	hyPiRion	I feel this problem pops up quite often for some reason. And I always want to use (partition 2 1 ...) on it and it gets all messy
15:37	hyPiRion	it's for some reason not as straightforward to implement it
15:37	mmeix	ah, missed that because of laptop sleep (after (def input...)
15:37	justin_smith	hyPiRion: yeah, my goto for that is multi-accumulator reduce
15:37	justin_smith	mmeix: should I repaste the code?
15:38	justin_smith	hyPiRion: I wonder if a multi-accumulator version of reduce without destructuring would be worth it?
15:38	mmeix	tried partition 2 1, got lots of parens ...
15:39	hyPiRion	justin_smith: multi-accumulator?
15:39	mmeix	justin_smith if you would be so kind ...
15:39	justin_smith	,(apply conj (reduce (fn [[acc contig] n] (if (= (inc (peek contig)) n) [acc (conj contig n)] [(conj acc contig) [n]])) [[] [(first input)]] (rest input)))
15:39	clojurebot	[[1 2 3] [5 6] [9] [12 13]]
15:39	justin_smith	hyPiRion: I have two accumulator values, thanks to destructuring
15:40	justin_smith	hyPiRion: but I guess that doesn't make sense beause apply would have to be used internally anyway since you would need to return a collection...
15:40	justin_smith	hyPiRion: or just use recur, of course
15:40	mmeix	wow, that's a fat oneliner :-) will study it thoroughly
15:40	justin_smith	mmeix: doesn't qualify as a one-liner, I don't think
15:41	justin_smith	mmeix: it's not so bad when on a few lines and indented properly
15:41	mmeix	just doin that
15:42	justin_smith	mmeix: so as I was saying, the main trick is using destructuring / returning a vector in order to have more than one accumulator
15:42	mmeix	ah, that's a new technique for a beginner
15:43	mmeix	ah: that was the point I couldn't get: "multiple accumulators"
15:43	mmeix	thanks a lot
15:44	mmeix	(inc justin_smith)
15:44	lazybot	⇒ 108
15:44	hyPiRion	It's not very common I think
15:45	justin_smith	hyPiRion: I do it often, maybe it's because I am weird
15:45	mmeix	this is something I expect to need a lot: segemnting vectors of musical notes by some criterion
15:45	mmeix	thanks for input!
15:46	hyPiRion	mmeix: oh, just a warning: That one won't work on infinite lists
15:46	mmeix	understand ...
15:47	mmeix	I don't expect my musical phrases to be of infinite length though :-)
15:47	justin_smith	mmeix: I bet you could do some fun stuff with derive and multimethods to describe musical rules
15:47	mmeix	derive? (looking up)
15:48	mmeix	ok, have to leave
15:48	mmeix	thanks again
15:48	justin_smith	np
15:50	justin_smith	hyPiRion: I guess a lazy version could be done with (partition 2 1 ...) and take-while
15:50	justin_smith	and lazy-seq of course
15:58	arohner	running new Cider (installed from melpa today), I don't get stacktraces when an error occurs. The error window pops up, but it's empty
15:58	arohner	any ideas?
15:59	arohner	FWIW, my previous version didn't have working stacktraces either, which is why I tried to upgrade
15:59	arohner	I got the error about missing the cider-nrepl .jar, but I fixed that
15:59	justin_smith	arohner: I assume you can at least use (pst)
15:59	arohner	yeah
15:59	technomancy	have you tried the stable version?
16:00	arohner	technomancy: which one is that? from melpa-stable?
16:00	justin_smith	arohner: 0.7.0
16:01	justin_smith	arohner: also, the clojure-emacs channel has at least one cider dev who doesn't follow this channel on it
16:01	technomancy	arohner: 0.7.0 and 0.6.0 are both a lot more likely to work than whatever melpa gives you
16:01	technomancy	melpa-stable will probably give you 0.7.0 claiming to be some nonsense datestamped version
16:02	arohner	justin_smith: technomancy: thanks
16:02	arohner	technomancy: how do you recommend I install it?
16:02	technomancy	arohner: I ... =(
16:02	technomancy	I don't have a recommendation.
16:02	arohner	git clone and stick in ~/.emacs.d/?
16:02	technomancy	if you use emacs 24.3, you can install from marmalade
16:02	technomancy	but emacs 24.4 has a bug that breaks transitive deps over HTTPS
16:03	technomancy	obviously don't install over non-TLS (melpa, melpa-stable)
16:03	technomancy	so yeah, manual clone is nice because you're in control, but the deps are tedious to track down
16:03	arohner	I think marmalade gave me 0.6.0, which also didn't work
16:03	arohner	but sounds like that's more likely to get working
16:04	technomancy	el-get works, but I can't recommend it out of the box, it's only safe to use if you (setq el-get-allow-insecure nil)
16:04	technomancy	I'm using 0.6.0
16:04	dysfun	i think life would be particularly miserable without melpa
16:04	dbasch	I had problems with 0.7.0, sticking to 0.6.0 because it works fine for me
16:04	technomancy	all the package.el sources are fatally flawed at the moment
16:05	technomancy	unless you use marmalade and hold off on the emacs 24.4 upgrade
16:05	dysfun	yeah, but it's still pretty new tech
16:05	technomancy	dysfun: that's not a good excuse
16:05	technomancy	even if it were true, which it's not
16:06	dysfun	frankly, pre-melpa, i didn't bother at all
16:06	dysfun	because there just wasn't enough stuff available
16:06	csd_	technomancy: question about heroku
16:06	technomancy	dysfun: now you're installing software in a way that's trivial to MITM. is this an improvement?
16:06	arohner	ok, so I'm back on cider 0.6.0, and stacktraces don't pop up in a buffer
16:06	technomancy	csd_: sure, go ahead
16:06	arohner	I just get the first line of the stacktrace in the repl
16:07	csd_	i'm trying to deploy and i'm running into a boot timeout error. my app is getting killed while its compiling basically. would this recompile happen every time the dyno restarts?
16:07	dysfun	technomancy: i have installed software in a way that is trivial to MITM. And probably won't be MITMed. and i try not to live my life in a tinfoil hat manner
16:07	justin_smith	arohner: I think there is a config variable for that
16:07	technomancy	dysfun: well, luckily I don't use any software you've released in a production setting where user data is at stake
16:08	arohner	justin_smith: I have (setq cider-show-error-buffer t)
16:08	technomancy	csd_: that's common if you're not creating an uberjar at git push time. the uberjar approach is strongly recommended for this reason.
16:08	dysfun	technomancy: everything you use is already backdoored and you're worried about a highly improbable event instead?
16:09	technomancy	dysfun: the level of sophistication to pull off an HTTP MITM is laughably low
16:09	csd_	do people that take that tack include the .jar in their git repo?
16:09	dysfun	how many times do you think i'm going to have to install a package from elpa?
16:09	csd_	or is there another way to upload it
16:09	dysfun	melpa*
16:09	clojurebot	A nod, you know, is as good as a wink to a blind horse.
16:09	llasram	clojurebot: or?
16:09	clojurebot	or is there another way to upload it
16:09	technomancy	csd_: no, you push the git repo to the build servers and the uberjar is created there
16:10	technomancy	dysfun: this is basic computing hygiene
16:10	technomancy	"don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been" of ones and zeroes
16:10	dysfun	i suppose you have a strip of tape over your webcam just in case the NSA is watching too
16:11	technomancy	it's one thing to guard against a nation state adversary, it's another to guard against attacks that are trivial to preform
16:11	dysfun	i'm not arguing the services shouldn't be better, but there are much bigger things for me to worry about
16:11	csd_	technomancy: guessing i just need to specify :uberjar-name in project.clj and that should take care of things?
16:11	technomancy	csd_: yeah
16:11	dysfun	i install elisp from melpa once in a blue moon. i'm not going to get paranoid about that
16:11	csd_	cool thanks
16:11	technomancy	csd_: and change your procfile to use the uberjar instead of lein run or whatever
16:12	justin_smith	dysfun: he's someone who works on the dependency resolution and deployment stack, I'd say he's doing us a favor by letting us know when something is sketchy, and we can decide how to act on that info
16:12	csd_	is there a way to do lein ring server-headless via uberjar
16:13	technomancy	my laptop has credentials that would allow me to steal data from customers that include bitcoin exchanges.
16:13	dysfun	you mean you want your main class to start a server?
16:13	dysfun	ah. well i certainly wouldn't keep credentials like that on here
16:14	technomancy	if I use a dysfun-produced jar in one of my projects, I've created a large incentive for someone to attack melpa.
16:14	dysfun	on the other hand, since all of my modules are on github, you can read the source
16:14	technomancy	there would be very little technically challenging about pulling off this attack
16:15	technomancy	dysfun: I'm not going to build from source, I'm going to get it from clojars.
16:16	technomancy	even if I built from github, you probably haven't disable force-push on your repos
16:16	dysfun	see, that sounds like a terrible idea now, because you never know that all of those people releasing to clojars are quite as careful as you
16:17	dysfun	but my point about it being on github was merely that if you don't trust the code, you can read it and determine if it's a risk
16:17	technomancy	it is pretty terrible, but at least clojars can't be trivially MITM'd any more.
16:17	technomancy	there are really easy things you can do to prevent simple attacks.
16:17	technomancy	there are really difficult things you can maybe do to hopefully prevent sophisticated attacks.
16:18	dbasch	dysfun: sneaking malicious obfuscated code in open source is trivial and it’s been done
16:18	technomancy	just because some of it is hard doesn't mean the easy stuff isn't worth bothering with.
16:18	TimMc	dysfun: I do in fact keep a sticky note over my webcam. It's easy and makes sense.
16:18	dysfun	dbasch: thousands of times. thousands of times in linux alone i'd wager
16:19	TimMc	It's not weird to guard against attacks that have already happened to other people.
16:19	dbasch	not like anybody ever looks at the source code of even a fraction of what they run blindly
16:19	technomancy	I don't have a webcam, FWIW.
16:19	justin_smith	TimMc: dysfun: I leave mine uncovered, the sight any attacker would witness if they turned it on would be its own punishment
16:19	dysfun	technomancy: no. but on the other hand, the fact that i'm going to install each package precisely once does somewhat limit the vector of attack
16:19	technomancy	but the fact that they aren't hard-wired into the activity LED pisses me off
16:19	dysfun	they are on some laptops
16:20	TimMc	technomancy: Even that doesn't help -- you can turn it on, take a picture, and turn it off again without the user noticing.
16:20	dbasch	listening in on someone is much more useful than looking at them with a camera anyway
16:20	dysfun	exactly
16:20	dbasch	tracking your keystrokes even more so
16:20	TimMc	Microphones are even worse, of course. No activity light.
16:20	justin_smith	my favorite recent conspiracy theory: FBI complains loudly about google / apple not giving them back doors into their mobile systems as a cover for the fact that they already have access
16:20	dysfun	and of course there was that malware that used microphones and speakers as a back channel too
16:21	TimMc	Anyway, point is, it's silly to not take precautions where there's low cost and high gain.
16:21	TimMc	And layered security is a thing.
16:21	dysfun	and it would be lovely if it was there, don't get me wrong
16:22	dysfun	i would like to see SSL be used everywhere, all the time
16:26	bodie_	anyone tried cursive with clojurescript?
16:26	bodie_	IDEA fork built around lein I guess?
16:27	bodie_	I've been using lighttable but its cljs integration is a little wack
16:27	justin_smith	bodie_: it's an idea plugin by cfleming that uses lein
16:27	mdrogalis	GitHub changed Clojure code highlighting. Do not like D:
16:27	SagiCZ1	bodie_: i've been using cursive for weeks now
16:27	SagiCZ1	bodie_: but only clojure
16:27	borkdude	bodie_ yes, works with clojurescript
16:27	bodie_	hm
16:27	bodie_	interesting
16:28	borkdude	bodie_ in the sense of highlighting etc
16:28	borkdude	bodie_ I build from lein cljsbuild externally
16:30	boblarrick	how do I flatten something like [ [1 2 3] :b 'a] into (1 2 3 :b 'a) ?
16:30	bodie_	borkdude, do you have a live browser setup you like? i.e. auto refresh, eval from the repl perhaps
16:30	bodie_	I've been really digging the decently tight integration lighttable has there
16:30	borkdude	bodie_ you can have a look at lein new liberagent, that's basically my setup
16:30	borkdude	bodie_ it's inspired by chestnut
16:31	borkdude	I want to cover om + reagent in a 40 minute talk... I think I'm already short in time
16:32	boblarrick	(reduce conj …) i guess
16:32	justin_smith	boblarrick: apply conj would suffic
16:32	mdrogalis	reduce/conj is my favorite Clojure idiom, I think.
16:32	mdrogalis	,(reduce conj (list) (range 5))
16:33	clojurebot	(4 3 2 1 0)
16:33	justin_smith	,(apply conj [1 2 3] :b ;a)
16:33	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
16:33	justin_smith	,(apply conj [1 2 3] :b 'a)
16:33	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol>
16:33	justin_smith	err
16:33	bodie_	borkdude, so cljsbuild auto + figwheel = live js updating, right?
16:33	justin_smith	,(apply conj [[1 2 3] :b 'a]) ; that's what I meant
16:33	clojurebot	[1 2 3 :b a]
16:34	borkdude	bodie_ true
16:34	bodie_	and then there must be some way to tie in the repl as well
16:34	borkdude	bodie_ if you read the docs on lein new liberagent it says it all
16:34	bodie_	okay, cool
16:34	bodie_	was just glancing over the list of deps
16:34	borkdude	bodie_ fighweel = lein cljsbuild auto + updating
16:34	justin_smith	mdrogalis: except for conj reduce doesn't do anything apply wouldn't be doing
16:34	bodie_	most of it is backend stuff I don't need right now
16:34	SagiCZ1	can i map backwards? like this (map #(% coll) [foo1 foo2 foo3 ..])
16:35	borkdude	bodie_ just comment them out and remove it
16:35	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: sure, that works, or you can use juxt
16:35	bodie_	yeah, figuring out what I do need :) hehe
16:35	bodie_	thanks for the pointer!
16:35	mdrogalis	justin_smith: Eh? Oh, I guess I should've qualified that with "reverse" idiom. Not in general.
16:35	justin_smith	,(map #(% [1 2]) [+ * / -])
16:35	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: Cannot cast clojure.lang.PersistentVector to java.lang.Number>
16:35	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: ok
16:35	justin_smith	,(map #(apply % [1 2]) [+ * / -])
16:35	clojurebot	(3 2 1/2 -1)
16:35	SagiCZ1	it says unable to resolve symbol foo1 in this context.. so idk
16:36	justin_smith	,(apply (juxt + * / -) [1 2])
16:36	clojurebot	[3 2 1/2 -1]
16:36	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: well you need to define things before you can call them...
16:36	rubber_duck	can someone point me to a minimal implementation of a transducing process so I can wrap my head arround the spec - it's kind of hard to figure out how to implement one without types :(
16:37	justin_smith	,(apply conj () (range 5)) ; mdrogalis
16:37	clojurebot	(4 3 2 1 0)
16:38	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: yeah my mistake.. and can i get name of the function from the IFn object? (name (defn foo [] ..))
16:38	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: it sounds like you are trying to do something weird here...
16:39	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: yeah.. just want to save some typing
16:39	SagiCZ1	let me explain
16:40	SagiCZ1	i want to have a map where keywords are made from function names, and values are results of calls to those functions like so {:foo1 (foo1 coll) :foo2 (foo2 coll) ..}
16:41	rubber_duck	SagiCZ1, IIRC fns don't have names vars do
16:42	SagiCZ1	rubber_duck: how would i turn the var name into keyword?
16:42	rubber_duck	but I'm not 100% on that It's been a long time since I mucked around with that
16:42	mdrogalis	justin_smith: Hah, cool :D
16:43	stuartsierra	Yes, vars have names, you can get it from their metadata as :name and :ns, then ns-name, …
16:43	rubber_duck	SagiCZ1, from the sound of what you're trying to do I'd say you would use a macro
16:44	SagiCZ1	,(def foo)
16:44	rubber_duck	(mymacro (foo ...) (bar ...)) -> expand in to {:foo (foo ...) :bar (bar ...)}
16:44	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
16:44	SagiCZ1	,(meta foo)
16:44	clojurebot	nil
16:45	SagiCZ1	rubber_duck: sounds correct, but i am a macro virgin.. i bet i will do something wrong, forget some gensym or someting and my whole project literally explodes
16:45	justin_smith	,(into {} (for [f [#'+ #'- #'* #'/]] [(keyword (:name (meta f))) (f 1 2)])) ; SagiCZ1
16:45	clojurebot	{:+ 3, :- -1, :* 2, :/ 1/2}
16:45	justin_smith	rubber_duck: can be done without a macro ^
16:45	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: do i need those ugly hashmarks?
16:46	justin_smith	,(= #'+ (var +))
16:46	clojurebot	true
16:46	stuartsierra	SagiCZ1: What's wrong with writing {:foo (foo …) :bar (bar …)} ?
16:46	justin_smith	,(into {} (for [f [(var +) (var -) (var *) (var /)]] [(keyword (:name (meta f))) (f 1 2)])) ; SagiCZ1
16:46	clojurebot	{:+ 3, :- -1, :* 2, :/ 1/2}
16:46	justin_smith	stuartsierra: excellent point
16:47	SagiCZ1	stuartsierra: i was just being lazy and curious
16:47	SagiCZ1	thank you for help
16:48	stuartsierra	;)
16:52	boblarrick	OK nevermind still stuck
16:52	boblarrick	how to flatten something like '((168 99) 68 (407 53 335) 158 (168 99)) ?
16:53	mearnsh	,(flatten '((168 99) 68 (407 53 335) 158 (168 99)))
16:53	clojurebot	(168 99 68 407 53 ...)
16:53	justin_smith	boblarrick: how did it get that shape in the first place?
16:53	boblarrick	combo/cartesian-product
16:55	justin_smith	wait, clojure.math.combinatorics/cartesian-product mixes sequences and elements in its output?
16:57	dbasch	boblarrick: if your single elements were one-element lists you could do apply concat, but really you shouldn’t have created that output
16:57	justin_smith	boblarrick: anyway, the right way to deal with something like that isn't flatten, it's using something that gives you the shape of data you need and using it apropriately, because flatten can do bad things if any of the elements you are working with are themselves collections
16:57	boblarrick	/shrug
17:00	boblarrick	I've got millions of these things, and i need the generation and the flattening to be quick
17:01	boblarrick	worried doing things "the right way" might add overhead, that would add up to a runtime I can't tolerate
17:01	dbasch	,(apply concat (map #(if (coll? %) % [%]) '((168 99) 68 (407 53 335) 158 (168 99))))
17:01	justin_smith	flatten is not quick, apply concat would be quicker if the data format were consistent
17:01	clojurebot	(168 99 68 407 53 ...)
17:02	justin_smith	boblarrick: inconsistent data formats cause all code that interacts with them to be more complex, it can be a rippling effect that increases complexity throughout a codebase. Better to deal with it directly where the data is generated
17:03	boblarrick	this is where the data is generated
17:03	boblarrick	sorry I have to run, I'll benchmark some things and see what's u
17:03	boblarrick	up
17:05	dbasch	boblarrick: can you paste a gist/refheap with the code that generates the data
17:05	dbasch	?
17:05	justin_smith	boblarrick: also, I have no idea how one gets combo/cartesian-product to output anything but sequences
17:07	justin_smith	dbasch: nice hack - better than flatten at least
17:08	boblarrick	https://www.refheap.com/92464
17:09	boblarrick	dbasch: (map flatten) works as part of comp'ed transducer, didn't have similar luck with (apply concat (map irc://card.freenode.net:6667/#(if (coll? %) % [%])
17:09	boblarrick	really gotta run, thanks for help!
17:11	justin_smith	so cartesian-product did not output any individual items, but it was asked to intermingle two element lists (cows) with three elements lists (foos) and single items (bars)
17:11	justin_smith	redefing bars would be enough to make a concat based solution work
17:12	justin_smith	(def bars [[:b] [:c] [:d]]) - then one can do consistent data operations on the result
17:16	dbasch	flatten really should be deprecated
17:16	dbasch	it probably causes more problems than it solves
17:16	amalloy	dbasch: (apply concat (map f xs)) is just (mapcat f xs)
17:16	dbasch	true
17:16	justin_smith	dbasch: it's a codependent partner to bad design
17:18	dbasch	mapcat is a very useful function, I usually remember it when I’m coding something from scratch
17:18	dbasch	I tend to think differently when I’m solving someone else’s problem for some reason
17:20	dbasch	I have yet to see a justifiable use of flatten though
17:21	dbasch	perhaps when parsing horrendous html?
17:23	dav_	nick dav
17:23	justin_smith	dbasch: it could argubly be useful when using results apis that insist on turning every single element list into a single item with no list
17:24	justin_smith	dbasch: but once again, it's just a sign of bad design somewhere else
17:25	dbasch	reminds me of the tagline for nokogiri, an html parser for ruby
17:25	puredanger	,(defn flatten' [s] (map (constantly '__) (flatten s)))
17:25	clojurebot	#'sandbox/flatten'
17:25	puredanger	,(flatten' ['tomato (range 5)])
17:25	clojurebot	(__ __ __ __ __ ...)
17:25	dbasch	“XML is like violence - if it doesn’t solve your problems, you are not using enough of it.”
17:25	justin_smith	lol
17:25	puredanger	see, I flattened it
17:26	puredanger	that's my new tag line, btw
17:28	danielszmulewicz	(inc puredanger)
17:28	lazybot	⇒ 19
17:28	danielszmulewicz	that's for making me laugh
17:28	puredanger	I shall treasure that inc
17:28	puredanger	,(flatten' 'danielszmulewicz)
17:28	justin_smith	,(defn flatten'' [s] (map #(symbol (apply str (map (constantly \_) (str %)))) (flatten s)))
17:28	clojurebot	#'sandbox/flatten''
17:28	clojurebot	()
17:28	danielszmulewicz	Hey I disappeared instead...
17:29	justin_smith	,(flatten'' '(daniel ((szmulewicz))))
17:29	clojurebot	(______ __________)
17:29	puredanger	danielszmulewicz: forgot to make it seqable
17:29	puredanger	justin_smith: that should be called redact
17:29	justin_smith	good point
17:30	danielszmulewicz	I feel better.
17:30	danielszmulewicz	a bit flat
17:31	justin_smith	,(defn carbonate [s] (map #(symbol (apply str (map (constantly `\') (str %)))) (flatten s)))
17:31	clojurebot	#'sandbox/carbonate
17:31	justin_smith	,(carbonate '(daniel ((szmulewicz))))
17:31	clojurebot	('''''' '''''''''')
17:31	danielszmulewicz	that's worth an inc too
17:31	danielszmulewicz	(inc justin_smith)
17:31	lazybot	⇒ 109
17:33	danielszmulewicz	Does clojurescript has something like emit-string which compiles and hands over a string?
17:34	danielszmulewicz	Here's an example of what I'm after: (emit-string '(defn three+three [] (+ 3
17:34	danielszmulewicz	3))
17:35	danielszmulewicz	Output should be: "ns.core.three_PLUS_three =
17:35	danielszmulewicz	(function three_PLUS_three(){return ((3) + (3));
17:36	danielszmulewicz	Basically what emit does in cljs.compiler.
17:36	danielszmulewicz	where's dnolen?
17:37	justin_smith	danielszmulewicz: touring europe with his band last I heard
17:37	danielszmulewicz	justin_smith: oh, right!
17:38	danielszmulewicz	I saw the tweets. I had forgotten.
18:04	csd_	I'm looking for some blog posts on best practices for managing code across developing locally, production server, etc. E.g. the fact that you want to juggle having one code base, but having to support different configurations for database server or what have you... anyone know of anything?
18:05	hiredman	the old standards are environment variables and configuration files
18:05	technomancy	use bcrypt
18:05	technomancy	oh wait, wrong meme
18:05	hiredman	there are libraries that deal with both, pick one and do that
18:05	technomancy	csd_: env variables are arguably simpler, but they can't handle nested values or really anything non-string.
18:06	technomancy	if you're on heroku, I recommend environ. otherwise carica.
18:06	csd_	so basically i should create on my local comp and on the remote comp a path variable like PRODUCTION? and then if it's true do one things, and otherwise the other?
18:06	hiredman	https://twitter.com/hiredman_/status/527581910155800577 tweetsare basically blog posts, right?
18:06	technomancy	csd_: don't set PRODUCTION, set whatever it is you actually care about doing differently in production vs dev.
18:06	joshuafcole	csd_ We use node at my dayjob, but it's the same concept. We define a NODE_ENV=<key>
18:06	joshuafcole	where <key> is the key in an enumeration of available configurations
18:07	joshuafcole	including dev, stage, and prod
18:07	technomancy	I would recommend against bundling them up like that.
18:07	mdeboard	Anyone having issues with github atm
18:07	hiredman	https://github.com/sonian/carica is generally what we use at sonian (surprise)
18:07	hiredman	it uses configuration files over environment variables
18:07	technomancy	your provisioning tool should handle grouping configs, and your application should just read single values it cares about.
18:07	hiredman	and does some merging stuff
18:07	csd_	why not just have a true/false env for development vs not, and then a config file with the different types of options depending on how the env var is set
18:07	mdeboard	hiredman, You work at Sonian eh? Your blog post on transitioning from backbone to react was a great help.
18:08	joshuafcole	You can, but it's a lot less flexible
18:08	csd_	how so
18:08	puredanger	some people like the environ library to help with this stuff https://github.com/weavejester/environ
18:08	joshuafcole	What if you want to introduce an integration server?
18:08	joshuafcole	or a staging server?
18:08	joshuafcole	that has some of the features of dev and some of prod?
18:08	technomancy	csd_: why would you put production config on your dev machines?
18:08	hiredman	csd_: it depends on how many places you might deploy to
18:08	csd_	gotcha
18:09	hiredman	csd_: for example at work we have dev, qa, ua, plus multiple production environments
18:09	csd_	so when you guys are working on a project you stick those vars into your bash_rc? or is there a tool that manages them
18:10	joshuafcole	Depends on your deploy system. If it's flexible enough, you can have a single config that's provisioned by the deploy system
18:10	technomancy	csd_: for env vars I put the default value in the code and only set the env var to override it, but I don't feel great about it.
18:10	joshuafcole	a good middle ground is to have a set of control scripts for your applications in each environment that have the right env var baked in
18:10	technomancy	one big downside of env vars is you can't change them without restarting the JVM, which is super tedious.
18:10	joshuafcole	mhmm
18:13	technomancy	ideally you'd only set them in actual deployments and not in development, because everyone gets super confused about how to reliably set env vars in dev in ways that will work outside bash.
18:13	csd_	puredanger: that library looks pretty useful
18:14	technomancy	environ might fix the change-without-restart problem; I forget
18:16	puredanger	well that's not an issue with java system properties
18:16	puredanger	and those are supported by environ, so there's probably options at least
18:19	technomancy	nice
19:12	EvanR	is there a thing where you can put (example (my-fun a b c) d) which does a sanity check/doc. assert?
19:13	{blake}	,(println ["Y" "N"])
19:13	clojurebot	[Y N]\n
19:13	{blake}	(map println ["Y" "N"])
19:13	{blake}	,(map println ["Y" "N"])
19:13	clojurebot	(Y\nN\nnil nil)
19:13	{blake}	huh
19:14	justin_smith	{blake}: the output of println gets mixed with the return value of map
19:14	{blake}	justin_smith, Right.
19:14	justin_smith	,(dorun (map println ["Y" "N"]))
19:14	clojurebot	Y\nN\n
19:14	justin_smith	I assume you would never need that list of nils
19:15	{blake}	justin_smith, No, it's the sort of thing that trips me up when I hit one thing I don't understand, then start inserting println to try to figure it out.
19:16	justin_smith	right :)
19:16	justin_smith	using a proper logger helps
19:16	{blake}	What would qualify as a proper logger?
19:17	justin_smith	{blake}: another trick I like is (defonce debug (atom [])) followed by various calls to (swap! debug conj [:descriptor value])
19:17	{blake}	justin_smith, creates a running log of whatever you swap?
19:18	justin_smith	{blake}: right, and you can play with the data in the repl
19:18	justin_smith	{blake}: sometimes it helps because you can actually play with the values in the repl
19:18	justin_smith	but that's not a proper logger
19:18	justin_smith	it's just a technique I like
19:18	{blake}	nod
19:18	justin_smith	for a proper logger I would use tools.logging or timbre
19:19	{blake}	'k. I'll have to check those out.
19:19	{blake}	So, I =think= I have a vector of ["Y" "N"]. But when I try to map I just get a LazySeq.
19:20	justin_smith	map returns lazyseqs...
19:20	justin_smith	,(class (map identity [1 2]))
19:20	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LazySeq
19:20	justin_smith	,(class (into (empty [1 1]) (map identity [1 2])))
19:20	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentVector
19:21	justin_smith	the problem with into / empty is it reverses the order of lists
19:21	justin_smith	but it preserves the type!
19:21	andrei	justin_smith: on the debugging atom, then you repeatedly ask for debug atom value after you do something?
19:21	utsc	hey guys, what is the transducer equivalent of "map<" from core.async?
19:22	justin_smith	andrei: I deref the debug atom in the repl, and do things with the data until I understand my bug
19:22	justin_smith	andrei: I also sometimes copy the data in said atom over into unit tests
19:23	andrei	justin_smith: but this is really nice :) I like that you could also take just a couple of items and inspect them instead of browsing through screens of logs
19:24	justin_smith	andrei: yes, I find it a very productive way to figure out what my code is doing while developing
19:24	{blake}	I'm trying to take a list and produce HTML, like (map #("<option>"%"</option>") l) and instead I'm getting back "lazySeq".
19:24	{blake}	Which is the sort of thing I thought I was beyond at this point. :/
19:24	justin_smith	andrei: of course log still have their purpose (for example figuring out what is actually going on at runtime on the production server)
19:25	arrdem	{blake}: apply str? or just use hiccup :P
19:25	justin_smith	{blake}: apply str
19:25	justin_smith	(inc arrdem)
19:25	lazybot	⇒ 38
19:25	agarman	question re: java generics interfaces in reify; do I just ignore the parameterized portion of the interface when implementing reify because java generics are erased anyhow?
19:25	{blake}	arrdem, Yeah. I don't usually mix up apply and map these days.
19:25	justin_smith	yeah, no downside to just using hiccup
19:25	{blake}	And, yeah, I'm going to use hiccup.
19:26	justin_smith	agarman: yeah, generics are an illusion :)
19:26	arrdem	hiccup is pure awesome
19:26	justin_smith	or more precisely - a java compiler concept, and we are not using the java compiler
19:26	{blake}	I was just throwing up some output.
19:26	arrdem	for sure
19:26	justin_smith	{blake}: hope it's not ebola!
19:26	{blake}	Generics are part of the long war of statically typed languages against their type systems.
19:27	{blake}	justin_smith, badum-tish
19:28	justin_smith	,(str (map inc (range 5))) ; {blake}
19:28	clojurebot	"clojure.lang.LazySeq@1c3e4a2"
19:28	justin_smith	,(apply str (map inc (range 5))) ; {blake}
19:28	clojurebot	"12345"
19:32	{blake}	justin_smith, Yeah. My face is red. And not from the Halloween makeup.
19:34	justin_smith	(pr-str (map inc (range 5))) ; another option
19:34	justin_smith	,(pr-str (map inc (range 5))) ; another option
19:34	clojurebot	"(1 2 3 4 5)"
19:34	justin_smith	pr-str produces better output for debugging
19:35	justin_smith	,((juxt str pr-str) "a")
19:35	clojurebot	["a" "\"a\""]
19:35	{blake}	Fair point.
19:35	{blake}	Ima use hiccup.
19:35	justin_smith	the pr-str differentiates a symbol from a string, str does not
19:36	{blake}	justin_smith, I've used it. Then forgot about it.
19:37	justin_smith	{blake}: reminds me of things I do :)
19:38	{blake}	justin_smith, It's been an amazing year spent with Clojure. I forgotten more than I've learned. Wait.
19:47	amalloy	oh boo, i just realized i actually do use C-z for things other than suspending. might need to find a new tmux prefix key
19:48	amalloy	C-c C-z to go to emacs's repl is just too hardwired into my fingers for me to train out of
19:49	justin_smith	emacs' repl as in ielm?
19:49	nwolfe	I like ` as my tmux prefix key
19:49	justin_smith	I thought I was the only one who ever used that
19:50	amalloy	justin_smith: no, slime, of course
19:50	justin_smith	heh
19:50	amalloy	nwolfe: that sounds horrific. don't you ever type a `?
19:51	nwolfe	amalloy: Haha it's not horrific - the few times I do need to actually enter a ` character I just press it twice
19:54	tuft	crazy to tire mentally because i'm back to little muscle memory
19:54	nwolfe	amalloy: I believe all I had to set were these 3 lines: https://github.com/nwolfe/dotfiles/blob/master/lib/tmux.conf.symlink#L78-L82
19:55	amalloy	tuft: i forget, does it need two hands, or is there a one-handed way to do it?
20:06	justin_smith	wow, fascinating
20:06	justin_smith	the personal version duplicates qwerty
20:06	justin_smith	http://www.shareware-beach.com/2007/08/datahand-review/
20:08	danielszmulewicz	This is a proof of concept to show how ClojureScript can be used in the context of Apple's JavaScript for Automation. https://gist.github.com/danielsz/9c4ed2fbf4c0ac6b2d95
20:08	EvanR	is there a function to consume a seq and give the first non-nil value
20:08	justin_smith	EvanR: (first (filter (complement nil?) s))
20:09	justin_smith	,(some identity [nil false 3])
20:09	dbasch	or (first (remove nil? s))
20:09	clojurebot	3
20:09	justin_smith	,(keep idenity [nil false 3])
20:09	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: idenity in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
20:10	justin_smith	,(keep identity [nil false 3])
20:10	clojurebot	(false 3)
20:10	justin_smith	dbasch: yeah, that one is better :)
20:13	EvanR	i saw this identity function, is it the identity function?
20:13	EvanR	i guess the keep is relying on natural truthiness
20:13	justin_smith	EvanR: keep is like map, but it discards nils
20:14	EvanR	ok id still need first
20:14	justin_smith	yeah
20:14	justin_smith	if you don't want false, (some identity s) works
20:14	justin_smith	or you can just do (first (remove nil? s))
20:15	EvanR	i need to distinguish between nil and false here
20:15	EvanR	so keep should work
20:16	EvanR	and im going the hell home
20:21	amalloy	EvanR: ☽ 263D FIRST QUARTER MOON?
20:21	technomancy	isn't that ... the werewolf key?
20:21	rpaulo	heh
20:28	justin_smith	🌕 is the werewolf key
20:30	AeroNotix	could any one point me to where `try` is implemented?
20:31	justin_smith	,(special-symbol? 'try)
20:31	clojurebot	true
20:31	technomancy	huh, TIL
20:31	justin_smith	that means somewhere in java I guess
20:31	technomancy	,(:added (meta #'special-symbol?))
20:31	clojurebot	"1.0"
20:32	justin_smith	technomancy: I found it via apropos because I wanted a way to know if something was a special form
20:32	justin_smith	I should do a "how to interrogate clojure" blogpost
20:32	technomancy	inc
20:35	justin_smith	I could do it all noir style. "So I'm sitting at my keyboard and up comes the most immutible lisp I've ever seen. Data structures up to here, concurrency like nobody's business"
20:36	AeroNotix	technomancy: yeah I was trying to see if I could write a slightly different try
20:36	AeroNotix	then I thought that it's going to be tricky since it has atypical syntax
20:36	justin_smith	of all the repls in this city, she just had to dump her stack trace into mine
20:36	technomancy	"the most immutable lisp I've ever seen" hehe
20:37	technomancy	AeroNotix: take a look at slingshot; it implements try+
20:39	AeroNotix	technomancy: hm, I wanted to make the catch expression more like python's
20:48	justin_smith	AeroNotix: in what way?
20:48	AeroNotix	justin_smith: (catch (ExceptionA ExceptionB) e ... )
20:51	justin_smith	AeroNotix: you could construct that with a macro, turining (my-try ... (catch [ExceptionA ExceptionB ExceptionC] e ...)) into (try ... (catch ExceptionA e ...) (catch ExceptionB e ...) (catch ExceptionC e ...))
20:51	AeroNotix	justin_smith: that's what I am doing
20:52	justin_smith	Oh, OK then :)
20:52	AeroNotix	but getting the semantics of the built-in try is a bit different from a normal macro
20:52	AeroNotix	since you need to parse the body for the catch expression
20:53	justin_smith	isn't it treated like a lambda body? in what way do you need to parse it?
20:53	AeroNotix	justin_smith: because you need to know where to start looking for the list of Exception types
20:54	justin_smith	the source link on thie page is messed up https://clojuredocs.org/clojure.core/try
20:55	jeffterrell	Ah, you have to parse the body of the try expr to find where the catches begin. Is that it?
20:56	AeroNotix	jeffterrell: yeah
20:56	AeroNotix	I'm like half way done
20:56	justin_smith	if I was doing this, I would take the body as a list, map over it, operating on all nodes that start with the symbol catch
20:57	AeroNotix	that's what I am doing
20:57	AeroNotix	it's simpler than i thought
20:57	AeroNotix	but it's like 2am so I may leave this til tomorrow
21:15	arrdem	ambrosebs: I feel like I owe you an appology now :P
21:15	ambrosebs	arrdem: no you win the awesome award
21:16	justin_smith	ambrosebs: watching your latest strange loop talk right now, good stuff so far btw
21:16	arrdem	ambrosebs: seriously tho if I could get core.typed dispatch I'd put that shit on everything
21:16	ambrosebs	justin_smith: why thank you
21:16	arrdem	I suppose I owe you a few more PRs before I get to complain about limitations tho
21:17	ambrosebs	arrdem: it might happen during my PhD, I've entertained combining predicate dispatch and Typed Clojure with the Typed Racket ppl
21:18	ambrosebs	although that might quite be what you mean?
21:18	arrdem	ambrosebs: threw money at you once, 8/8 would do again
21:18	arrdem	ambrosebs: core.typed enabled predicate/patern matching dispatch would be totally awesome
21:19	ambrosebs	haha well it might happen again during the summer. My visa rules are pretty darn strict.
21:19	ambrosebs	but I still owe everyone a bunch of videos
21:19	ambrosebs	I guess that's what christmas break is for
21:19	arrdem	:D
21:19	ambrosebs	yea, PhD and moving country kind of happened...
21:19	ambrosebs	:P
21:20	arrdem	hehe odds are very good I'll manage to get out without a masters
21:20	arrdem	but I'll be back of one
21:20	ambrosebs	you're aiming for phd?
21:21	arrdem	probably not, but the sort of lang/compiler stuff I think is fun is masters or better territory
21:21	arrdem	so who knows. I sure don't yet
21:22	ambrosebs	well I hope you keep it in mind. you'd probably have a lot of fun
21:24	arrdem	I'm sure that being a grad/phd candidate would be more fun... my primary complaint against my undergrad is the non-cs/non-research work which I find really soul sapping. :/
21:24	arrdem	also you're not the first person to tell me to stick around for a PHD. peer pressure alone may yet do it.
21:24	TEttinger	arrdem, you've got skills for sure. It would be great to see what you come up with as a researcher
21:25	TEttinger	ambrosebs, you're the main force behind Typed Clojure, is that right?
21:25	ambrosebs	TEttinger: that's me
21:25	TEttinger	it certainly looks good.
21:25	TEttinger	I haven't used it yet
21:26	arrdem	core.typed is good when you have some code you know mostly works and you want to really push types through and get assurance
21:26	AeroNotix	I found it incredibly annoying to use
21:26	arrdem	I've found that because there isn't type dispatch it tends to be a little heavyweight for exploratory use
21:27	AeroNotix	there's so much code out there that's untyped that you end up typing and then your code becomes a mismash of type specifiers and your real code
21:27	ambrosebs	it takes a while to figure out when to just give up type checking something. It can happen fairly often for certain types of code
21:27	AeroNotix	and then sometimes you need to change your code to make it more obvious to the type checker
21:27	ambrosebs	yep. That's a real problem at the moment because there's no runtime enforcement of types
21:27	arrdem	AeroNotix: yeah I've had a couple of those
21:27	AeroNotix	all in all -> don't care.
21:28	AeroNotix	Try it out if it works for you but for any non-trivial codebases you really ought to start off with core.typed instead of adding it in later.
21:28	AeroNotix	and even then the value is questionable.
21:28	arrdem	I mean... mad props to ambrosebs, for a project built by 1.01 undergrads it's awesome, it just needs more than one mans's worth of work.
21:28	justin_smith	ambrosebs: how well would core.typed and prismatic/schema work together? chocolate and peanut butter or ice cream and pickles?
21:28	ambrosebs	justin_smith: theoretically just fine. Right now, there's been no effort to figure out the details.
21:29	amalloy	(inc justin_smith) ; for lisp-noir
21:29	lazybot	⇒ 110
21:29	ambrosebs	in theory you could use core.typed to ensure you're writing the correct Schema contracts and actually using them in the right spots to prevent type errors
21:29	ambrosebs	the problem is core.typed doesn't understand schemas
21:30	ambrosebs	and I've been apologising for that for about a year
21:30	justin_smith	so there would be duplicate effort
21:30	ambrosebs	no I think core.typed should be able to read schema definitions automatically
21:30	justin_smith	by duplicate effort I mean describing the same thing to core.typed and to schema
21:31	justin_smith	making core.typed understand schemas would by a one time cost that eliminates that duplication I would think
21:31	ambrosebs	that's what I think.
21:32	ambrosebs	the problem is that if you have no static type annotations, functions arguments would always be inferred to have type Any statically
21:32	ambrosebs	because schemas get applied in the body
21:32	ambrosebs	so you wouldn't get as many static type errors as you might like, but they would be turned into runtime errors
21:33	justin_smith	I'm still finding my bearings with both schema and core.typed, thanks for the input
21:35	ambrosebs	unfortunately the biggest barrier to understanding Schemas is the map schema can have more than just keywords as keys
21:35	ambrosebs	{:a Int (optional :b) Boolean}
21:35	ambrosebs	HMaps in core.typed only allow keywords
21:36	ambrosebs	so there's some shuffling that needs to be done, as well as figuring out how much structural equality I want to encode in the type system
21:37	ambrosebs	I'd hope it's downhill from there?
21:37	ambrosebs	:)
21:37	ambrosebs	very optimistic
21:37	justin_smith	cool
21:38	ambrosebs	core.typed already understands merge/assoc etc, so that can be automated.
21:38	ambrosebs	which is actually a pretty cool thing
21:39	ambrosebs	being able to understand dynamically constructed contracts
21:39	justin_smith	nice
21:39	ambrosebs	crosses fingers
21:40	AeroNotix	justin_smith: https://github.com/AeroNotix/crap/blob/master/src/crap/exceptions.clj#L20-L36
21:40	AeroNotix	despite it being 2AM (and now 2:30AM) I decided to give it a go
21:40	AeroNotix	there's probably a better way to do that.
21:41	justin_smith	AeroNotix: looks fairly solid
21:42	AeroNotix	bedtime
21:42	fairuz	Hi guys
21:43	justin_smith	AeroNotix: the usage of both mapcat and unquote-splicing is something I would take a second look at
21:43	fairuz	Normally what do you guys use to make things modular? Something like a database module, booking module etc?
21:43	justin_smith	fairuz: namespaces and functions
21:43	fairuz	Or is it not a practice in clojure?
21:43	fairuz	So all of them will be in the same project?
21:43	fairuz	Nothing like different package or something
21:44	fairuz	and module A add dependencies to module B, something along this way
21:44	fairuz	Just need some ideas on how to start off my first clojure project
21:44	justin_smith	fairuz: that's what namespaces are for
21:45	justin_smith	fairuz: using immutibility changes the game a bit, and the need for data hiding is reduced
21:45	justin_smith	so it's common to put multiple related functionalities in one namespace
21:46	ambrosebs	curious if anyone's ever been bitten by ArraySeq's in Clojure and ClojureScript being mutable if you change the underlying array?
21:46	fairuz	justin_smith: Ok got it
21:47	fairuz	Does we can have several files with the same namespaces? Or the namespace is tied with the file name?
21:47	justin_smith	namespaces should be reflected by the file name
21:48	amalloy	reiddraper: i don't think i ever mentioned it to you: i think you'd be interested to know i wrote a test.check generator for instances of Thrift schemas: https://github.com/amalloy/thrift-gen
21:49	justin_smith	ambrosebs: as I think I mentioned on twitter, I think the strong consensus is that it's something you just shouldn't be doing.
21:49	ambrosebs	justin_smith: right, that's assuming you are the one changing the array
21:49	amalloy	(which could be useful for anyone who works with thrift, even if you don't really care about test.check)
21:49	justin_smith	ambrosebs: though I could see an argument for having a warning / error if you can't prove the underlyign array does not escape scope of the immutible collection's creation
21:50	justin_smith	ambrosebs: well the "don't do that" would extend not just to mutating it, but using something visible for others to mutate
21:50	fairuz	justin_smith: ok got it. Thanks
21:51	justin_smith	ambrosebs: that would be nice actually, now that I think about it, to warn if you are constructing something immutible using a mutable basis that escapes that scope...
21:52	arrdem	ambrosebs: is this the aset on seq that's been floating around for a bit or is this a different case?
21:52	bbloom	ambrosebs: i think this is a cafe of "fast and loose reasoning is morally correct"
21:52	bbloom	you can do better type checking if you just assume it's actually immutable
21:53	ambrosebs	bbloom: sure I've come around to the pragmatics of it
21:53	mindbender1	,(bit-or 1 2 3 4)
21:53	clojurebot	7
21:53	bbloom	s/cafe/case
21:53	mindbender1	,(apply bit-or '(1 2 3 4))
21:53	clojurebot	7
21:53	ambrosebs	,(let [a (into-array [1 2 3]) p (seq a) _ (aset a 0 2)] p)
21:53	clojurebot	(2 2 3)
21:53	ambrosebs	arrdem: that one ^
21:53	arrdem	ambrosebs: yep
21:54	ambrosebs	bbloom: we should be able to still build a sound gradual type system that assumes seqs are immutable in the static portion.
21:54	reiddraper	amalloy: woah that's neat
21:54	ambrosebs	we basically need to track array mutations in static code, and also ensure any foreign arrays are copied before they are made seqs.
21:55	reiddraper	amalloy: i should create a 'test.check libraries' thing on the readme or something
21:55	mindbender1	sorry (apply bit-or '(1 2 3 4)) doesn't give the correct answer in cljs-repl.
21:55	arrdem	ambrosebs: is there a compelling reason to do that rather than declare the above an abstraction fault and unsupported?
21:55	mindbender1	there's no way to replicate it here
21:55	amalloy	,(doc bit-or)
21:55	clojurebot	"([x y] [x y & more]); Bitwise or"
21:56	ambrosebs	arrdem: yes, a gradual type system is designed to protect the typed code to preserve its soundness at all costs
21:56	bbloom	ambrosebs: would be cool if you could mark the array type as aliased to an immutable position, and then throw an error on future changes to it
21:56	justin_smith	arrdem: well, you could create something "immutible" from a mutible source by mistake, and get bugs later. I think the ability of static typing to detect that would be nice.
21:56	mindbender1	amalloy: it doesn't work correctly in cljs-repl
21:56	ambrosebs	so even to protect someone passing an array from the Java API to clojure
21:56	bbloom	ambrosebs: but then of course i'm going to play devil's advocate and say that i want idempotent sets to be statically allowable ;-)
21:56	amalloy	mindbender1: what does it produce?
21:57	mindbender1	it keeps producing 3
21:57	mindbender1	that is the first 2
21:57	ambrosebs	bbloom: yes that's one direction my phd could go :)
21:57	ambrosebs	I'll dig into linear types next year probably
21:57	amalloy	mindbender1: the cljs version of bit-or doesn't accept multiple args
21:57	ambrosebs	bbloom: what do you mean by your last remark?
21:57	amalloy	it takes exactly two
21:58	ambrosebs	what is an idempotent set
21:58	bbloom	,(let [a (into-array [1 2 3]) p (seq a) _ (aset a 0 1)] p)
21:58	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
21:58	mindbender1	amalloy: but (bit-or 1 2 3 4) does the right thing
21:58	ambrosebs	oh right an aset :)
21:58	bbloom	ambrosebs: ^^ setting a[0] to 1 is totally safe to do
21:58	bbloom	heh yeah
21:58	bbloom	ambrosebs: i would love it if you figured out how to type check transients implementations
21:58	ambrosebs	that's just crazy
21:58	ambrosebs	yea!
21:58	bbloom	ambrosebs: i dunno if you saw my various twitter ramblings about it
21:58	ambrosebs	this all sounds related
21:59	ambrosebs	yes I did
21:59	ambrosebs	I think I briefly talked to samth about it offline. but I was despairing about mutable seqs at the time.
22:00	amalloy	mindbender1: i see. bit-or is implemented as a variadic macro, but there's also a function version of it which only accepts two args
22:01	amalloy	i'd say that's a bug: the function version should accept any number of args
22:01	mindbender1	amalloy: is there a function I can use to work around that immediately
22:01	justin_smith	how well does cljs handle / reflect the laxity about argument count in js?
22:02	amalloy	mindbender1: (defn good-bit-or [& args] (reduce #(bit-or % %2) 0 args)) is probably fine
22:02	amalloy	justin_smith: not well
22:02	amalloy	if you call a function with too many args, the extras just fall on the floor
22:03	mindbender1	amalloy: thanks it's working. I'd manage that for now!
22:16	Rakko	How can I make Clojure scripts into .exes instead of .dlls using Clojure-CLR?
22:27	justin_smith	Rakko: it looks like there was an unmerged patch for this (dunno if it really works) http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJCLR-25
22:30	justin_smith	Rakko: also, it looks like lein-clr generates exe files https://github.com/kumarshantanu/lein-clr
22:30	justin_smith	you could use that, or figure out how it does it I guess
22:35	hiredman	ugh, the way pprint prints out vars is just terrible
22:35	hiredman	every time I use it I cringe
22:35	amalloy	,(clojure.pprint/pprint #'inc)
22:35	clojurebot	#<ClassNotFoundException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.pprint>
22:36	Rakko	thanks, justin_smith !
22:36	amalloy	,(do (require 'clojure.pprint) (clojure.pprint/pprint #'inc))
22:36	clojurebot	#<Var@107e78: #<core$inc clojure.core$inc@f278dd>>\n
22:36	justin_smith	(require '[clojure.pprint :as ugly-print])
22:38	hiredman	is it not the worst?
22:39	justin_smith	I'd hate to see the representations that weren't chosen for vars
22:39	TimMc	It's ... just ... awful.
22:39	TimMc	[said in the voice of Cecil from Welcome to Night Vale]
22:39	amalloy	,(str #'inc)
22:39	clojurebot	"#'clojure.core/inc"
22:41	hiredman	amalloy: what happens is vars aren't handled special they fall through to pprints deref handler
22:42	hiredman	you can actually work around it, but having to do it over and over every time you use it is not great
22:49	hiredman	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1576
22:49	hiredman	vote early, vote often
22:51	justin_smith	votd
22:52	Rakko	wow, there are at least two devins in the clojure world
22:58	Raynes	Two whole devins???????
22:59	TimMc	What a deal!
23:00	justin_smith	Raynes: any big picture hints of where I would start with making lazybot use the new irclj? If not I'll just dive right in
23:00	TimMc	Raynes: I feel like I haven't seen you in forever.
23:00	Raynes	justin_smith: One moment sir.
23:00	Raynes	TimMc: I'm always around. :)
23:01	Raynes	I just only hop in periodically. I've been rather preoccupied for a while now.
23:03	justin_smith	Ran 0 tests containing 0 assertions. 0 failures, 0 errors.
23:03	justin_smith	:)
23:03	Raynes	justin_smith: https://github.com/Raynes/lazybot/blob/master/src/lazybot/irc.clj
23:03	Raynes	justin_smith: lazybot core is one thing, plugins are another.
23:04	justin_smith	Raynes: cool
23:04	Raynes	You'll probably break half the plugins no matter what you do.
23:04	justin_smith	that's a small namespace, promising
23:04	justin_smith	that's not promising
23:04	justin_smith	haha
23:04	justin_smith	I guess I may end up making some tests and or using schema for sanity's sake
23:04	Raynes	The important thing is to get the core connection stuff moved over, get the core plugin system using the new stuff
23:05	Raynes	lazybot was not well written enough for unit tests to be very useful for it.
23:05	Raynes	:P
23:05	Raynes	You can probably get a testing framework in there pretty easily though.
23:05	justin_smith	Raynes: this is someting I have dealt with before. I'll see how crazy it gets.
23:06	Raynes	Well, you can do testing plugins really easily,.
23:06	justin_smith	Raynes: it's an approach to code reading
23:06	Raynes	All you have to do is emulate the mechanism that calls the plugin system.
23:06	justin_smith	"I think I know what this does, now I'll write a test to prove / disprove that" - then attempt your fix and see how the test responds
23:07	justin_smith	Raynes: sounds about right, yeah
23:07	TimMc	Just use Spring's PluginSingletonAbstractDependencyInjectionEmulatorEngineFactory to do it.
23:07	Raynes	TimMc: I wrote a factory for the first time a few days ago.
23:07	justin_smith	TimMc: oh of course, why didn't I think of that
23:07	Raynes	In Python :3
23:08	Raynes	TimMc: https://www.refheap.com/92467
23:08	Raynes	Look at that shit.
23:08	Raynes	LOOK AT IT!
23:09	justin_smith	Raynes: man, if I squint my eyes I can see the conveyor belts and the little ladies with hair nets and latex gloves
23:09	Raynes	=D
23:09	Raynes	I used dropwhile for the first time in python today.
23:09	Raynes	Then realized getting the index of the item + using slicing was a better solution.
23:10	Raynes	Then I took a swig of rum and cried myself to sleep.
23:10	TimMc	Every time you write the word "factory" a mid-level manager gets their wings.
23:14	kenrestivo	http://xkcd.com/224/
23:14	kenrestivo	s/perl/python/g
23:17	Raynes	kenrestivo: you okay bro
23:18	kenrestivo	doing well. laffing at your riffs on python factories etc
23:23	Raynes	kenrestivo: I made some tunes recently. Didn't even listen to them for quality. Sending them to you for approval. :P
23:23	kenrestivo	my god, this whole town just went berserk
23:24	Raynes	Oh the sportsball
23:31	chenglou	how is clojure's = implemented for collections?
23:31	chenglou	does it just compare the hashes?
23:31	TimMc	kenrestivo: Did the local sports team sports hard enough, or not hard enough?
23:31	chenglou	and always fast?
23:31	Raynes	TimMc: In PM he described it as cheering.
23:32	TimMc	Oh good!
23:32	Raynes	I think that means the local sportsball team did well.
23:32	Raynes	At sportsball.
23:32	Raynes	Dunno about the rest of their lives.
23:32	Raynes	But the sportsball they've solidly done well
23:32	chenglou	also is there any blog post explaining how the hashing is done efficiently
23:32	kenrestivo	if people got this excited about $thing_that_actually_matters, we'd have all the world's problems solved
23:32	TimMc	I'm sure they will make good decisions.
23:33	TimMc	chenglou: That's actually a really good question!
23:33	justin_smith	chenglou: it first checks for object identity, then structural equality iirc. Something to look at is hasheq as puredanger mentions here http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26622511/clojure-value-equality-and-sets
23:34	justin_smith	chenglou: because if the args are literally the same object, there's no need to go deeper, of course
23:36	chenglou	justin_smith: how is the structural equality comparison done? Just naive comparison?
23:37	justin_smith	chenglou: best to check the source at that point I would say
23:37	chenglou	kk. I guess I shouldn't be worrying about perf this early on but for some random experiments I have to compare large quantities of collections against others (freshly created, no structural sharing). I was wondering if the magic of clojure's hashing could make this not slow
23:38	justin_smith	chenglou: well, if nothing is shared I don't know of any alternative that wouldn't involve walking every collection at least once
23:40	chenglou	right, but if the hash's already produced beforehand then this isn't a problem
23:40	justin_smith	chenglou: well, hash can only tell you there isn't a match
23:40	chenglou	also interested in knowing the collision rate
23:40	justin_smith	if it's the same hash, you still need to walk and double check
23:40	justin_smith	it just rules out possibilities, it doesn't mark them
23:40	chenglou	true...
23:41	justin_smith	chenglou: puredanger could probably help you more than I but he seems not to be around, but I assume most of your answers sit in this directory here: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/tree/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang
23:43	justin_smith	Raynes: youre readme mentions ".lazybot/info.clj" - do you have an example or template for that file?
23:43	Raynes	lol my readme
23:43	Raynes	My readme last updated when I was 12 or something
23:43	justin_smith	heh
23:43	chenglou	thanks
23:43	amalloy	justin_smith: it's config.clj now, iirc. should be one of those in the project root or thereabouts
23:44	justin_smith	Raynes: is it related to config.clj
23:44	justin_smith	oh, got it
23:44	justin_smith	lol
23:44	Raynes	justin_smith: It probably is confi
23:44	Raynes	Oh hi amalloy
23:44	Raynes	justin_smith: So amalloy apparently knows more about this bot than I do at this point.
23:44	Raynes	Discouraging.
23:44	justin_smith	Raynes: awesome, I have my first edit going in right now (to the readme) :)
23:45	amalloy	Raynes: 683 commits / 145,375 ++ / 7,850 --; amalloy: 170 commits / 5,848 ++ / 5,387 --
23:45	amalloy	i wonder how on earth you found 145k lines to add
23:45	Raynes	I worked hard
23:46	justin_smith	a very particular coding style: (\ndefn\nfoo\n[\narg\narg2\n...]\n...\n)
23:46	bbloom	wtf? `lein repl` is OOM-ing on a random project of mine now
23:53	bbloom	does anybody have any ideas why i'm getting OutOfMemoryError when trying to run `lein repl` on a pretty simple project?
23:53	bbloom	it happens during startup, before the repl is ready
23:54	justin_smith	bbloom: ick - bad plugin interaction? middleware bug?
23:54	bbloom	this project has no plugins or middleware
23:54	bbloom	git on my dotfiles says i haven't changed my profiles.clj in 2 weeks
23:54	justin_smith	and nothing coming in from profiles.clj that would interact badly with that project.clj?
23:54	bbloom	this project worked a few days ago
23:54	justin_smith	oh
23:55	justin_smith	snapshot in the deps tree?
23:56	bbloom	only one snapshot, and it's something that shouldn't be in any public repos, so it shouldnt' have changed
23:56	Raynes	bbloom: Are you by chance on a raspberry pi?
23:56	justin_smith	I guess you could turn on heap dumps and analyze the dump in a profiler
23:56	bbloom	Raynes: sometimes my mac feels as slow as a raspberry pi
23:57	Raynes	bbloom: lol you should try a raspberry pi
23:57	Raynes	I nearly tied compiling deps for a python project once
23:57	Raynes	died, even
23:58	chenglou	justin_smith: TimMc seems like it's just plain item-by-item comparison