#clojure – 2014-10-18

2014-10-18

00:01	amalloy	quizme: uhhhh, without seeing your code it's not necessarily clear what's going wrong, but i expect you're using a sort function which disagrees with =
00:01	amalloy	based on your "sorted by a particular key"
00:03	hiredman	what does subseq even do on a sort-set?
00:03	hiredman	,(doc subseq)
00:03	clojurebot	"([sc test key] [sc start-test start-key end-test end-key]); sc must be a sorted collection, test(s) one of <, <=, > or >=. Returns a seq of those entries with keys ek for which (test (.. sc comparator (compare ek key)) 0) is true"
00:03	hiredman	ah
00:04	quizme	http://pastebin.com/0adaVx3Q
00:05	quizme	amalloy: http://pastebin.com/0adaVx3Q
00:10	amalloy	,(:x 5)
00:10	clojurebot	nil
00:10	amalloy	quizme: what do you expect 5 to mean in that context? calling that comparison function with 5 as one of the arguments doesn't make any sense
00:11	quizme	i want 5 to be the value that the key should be greater than.
00:13	amalloy	what key? your function compares the a and b of of an item to the a and b of 5
00:14	amalloy	i feel like you are misunderstanding both sorted sets and subseq, but i don't understand your beliefs well enough to correct them
00:15	quizme	i want to select all values of the sorted set whose :a key is bigger than 5
00:16	quizme	i mean :a value
00:16	quizme	similar to how (subseq [1 2 3 4] > 2) gives you (3 4)
00:17	quizme	but i just want to look at the :a values
00:22	quizme	hiredman: basically, it lets you do efficient range queries in memory.
00:30	amalloy	well, you could do something like (subseq s > {:a 5}), which kinda does what you want but is fraught with pitfalls
00:30	amalloy	the point is the thing you use as your query has to be comparable to the items in the set
00:32	quizme	amalloy i see thanks, i think that will do it for me... what's the pitfall?
00:34	amalloy	i mean, like everything. your sorted set can't contain multiple items whose :a and :b are the same, even if other keys are different
00:35	amalloy	you're comparing against a nil b, and it's not totally clear your comparison function expects that
00:41	amalloy	it seems more like you want a sorted map, where the keys are the values of :a
00:41	amalloy	and possibly a second sorted map if the values of :b are also important to sort by
00:42	amalloy	but who knows, maybe your data is shaped such that the pitfalls of sorted sets are advantages
02:39	SagiCZ1	,(range 200000)
02:39	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
02:39	SagiCZ1	how can i tell repl to compute but not print the return value?
02:44	TEttinger	,(do (range 200000) nil)
02:44	clojurebot	nil
02:45	TEttinger	,(do (print "starting... ") (range 200000) (print "ending...") nil)
02:45	clojurebot	starting... ending...
02:45	TEttinger	SagiCZ1, does that make sense?
02:47	SagiCZ1	TEttinger: yes it does, thank you
02:47	SagiCZ1	,(dorun (range 200000))
02:47	clojurebot	nil
02:47	SagiCZ1	this is what i wanted
02:47	TEttinger	ah ok
02:47	SagiCZ1	im trying to find a case where pmap is faster than map... still havent found one
02:49	TEttinger	how many physical cores do you have?
02:49	TEttinger	if it's 16, you're more likely to find a case than if you have 2 :)
02:54	SagiCZ1	yeah just two
02:54	SagiCZ1	ok, ordering 16 core xeon
02:54	amalloy	SagiCZ1: you want a function that's expensive to compute, like (map #(do (THread/sleep 5000) %) (apply list (range 10)))
02:55	SagiCZ1	amalloy: yeah so the function computing one element should take a long time.. not the whole operation right?
02:55	amalloy	right
02:55	SagiCZ1	thanks
02:56	TEttinger	SagiCZ1: lol, if you're just after tons of cores, http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-C6100-C6105-CLOUD-SERVER-6x-1-8GHz-AMD-6-CORE-HEX-CORE-144GB-RAM-3x-250GB-/181306790824?pt=COMP_EN_Servers&hash=item2a36ba13a8
02:56	TEttinger	36 cores and 144GB RAM should be able to handle a few REPLs
02:56	SagiCZ1	yeah, like two or three right?
02:57	SagiCZ1	too bad i dont believe AMD can make a good cpu
02:58	SagiCZ1	wow but isnt that cheap?
02:58	TEttinger	if you were serious about buying for testing anything, http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-C6105-CLOUD-SERVER-6x-1-8GHz-AMD-6-CORE-48GB-RAM-3x-250GB-C6100-SERIES/171187983886 is the price of a netbook
02:59	SagiCZ1	yeah that surprised me.. i wonder if my application would really benefit from so many cores.. tehre is some inherent parallel processes in it so maybe
03:00	TEttinger	electrical costs are what kill these things, I have an older server than these that I never turn on because it sounds like a jet engine and probably uses as much electricity as one
03:02	SagiCZ1	oh ok.. thats awful then.. i think amd cpus are pretty inefficient.. i dont think it could make enough money to pay for the running cost but maybe one day..
03:02	TEttinger	I would imagine the cloud ones are cheaper
03:03	TEttinger	these have a fairly low clock speed
03:03	TEttinger	ideal for clojure's intended use, massively concurrent applications like server-side code
03:05	TEttinger	then again, the server I have is a 4 processor, 4U server, single-core Pentium4-based Xeon each one
03:05	TEttinger	quite old, probably not the best example
03:05	justin_smith	TEttinger: google has a server farm not far from here, just because there is a huge hydro generator and large numbers of wind farms (columbia river gorge), and they get cheaper power by being right next door.
03:06	TEttinger	yep
03:06	TEttinger	I've heard they do that
03:06	justin_smith	it's smart placement, bonus that it's green energy too (relatively depends on how important you think salmon are)
03:07	TEttinger	delicious
03:07	TEttinger	I saw the salmon staircase they built at one of those dams
03:07	TEttinger	incredible work
03:07	justin_smith	they invented a salmon hose, it works even better
03:07	justin_smith	literally pumps salmon from the bottom, into a tube, then shoots them to the top
03:08	TEttinger	that's the funniest image I've had in my head all day (all 8 minutes of it)
03:08	justin_smith	hehe
03:08	justin_smith	vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWpKtTjYo1g
03:11	justin_smith	it is remarkably similar to pneumatic system that was used at some libraries to send requests for books
03:11	justin_smith	now I am imagining people in libraries using dedicated tubing to throw live fish at one another
03:11	scottj	water park for fish
03:12	justin_smith	yeah, I bet that's fun
03:40	dysfun_	clojure doesn't use '&' for anything yet, right?
03:40	justin_smith	only for marking varargs
03:41	justin_smith	,((fn [& args] args) 1 2 3 4 5)
03:41	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5)
03:41	dysfun_	oh yes
03:41	dysfun_	i can live with that
03:41	justin_smith	,'&
03:41	clojurebot	&
03:41	justin_smith	,(let [& :OK] &)
03:41	clojurebot	:OK
03:41	justin_smith	it's a valid binding
03:41	dysfun_	also not documented :(
03:42	justin_smith	what isn't documented/
03:42	dysfun_	& isn't listed in the permissible atom syntax
03:42	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: isn't in this context
03:42	justin_smith	dysfun_: permissable atom?
03:42	justin_smith	is that common lisp speak?
03:43	dysfun_	er symbol
03:43	dysfun_	"Symbols begin with a non-numeric character and can contain alphanumeric characters and *, +, !, -, _, and ? (other characters will be allowed eventually, but not all macro characters have been determined)"
03:43	dysfun_	doesn't mention <> either
03:43	justin_smith	which have been function names from the very beginning
03:44	dysfun_	i'm looking for a punctuation symbol that isn't permitted in clojure symbol names
03:44	justin_smith	.
03:44	dysfun_	or at a minimum that isn't permitted as the first character in clojure symbol names
03:44	justin_smith	^
03:45	dysfun_	i'm already using dot :(
03:45	justin_smith	,(let [. :not-ok] .)
03:45	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassFormatError: Illegal field name "." in class sandbox$eval99, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
03:45	justin_smith	,(let [^ :not-ok] ^)
03:45	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: ]>
03:45	dysfun_	^ is metadata
03:46	justin_smith	right, and . is member access
03:46	justin_smith	and both are not allowed in names, that's all I'm saying
03:46	dysfun_	ah, right, i get you
03:46	justin_smith	' can be in a name, but not as the first character
03:46	justin_smith	so we can be all mathy
03:47	dysfun_	i'm writing a custom reader, but i can use #^ for metadata and use ^ for something else
03:47	justin_smith	,(let [x 0 x' (inc x) x'' (inc x')] x'')
03:47	clojurebot	2
03:47	dysfun_	ah yes, but i want to keep convenient quote syntax
03:48	justin_smith	,(let [ 5] )
03:48	clojurebot	5
03:48	justin_smith	even non breaking space is a valid binding
03:48	dysfun_	what was that?   ?
03:48	dysfun_	heh
03:48	justin_smith	"valid" - we can at least say "you can get away with it"
03:49	dysfun_	,'\'
03:49	clojurebot	\'
03:49	justin_smith	,(let [\ :?] \)
03:49	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unsupported character: \ :?>
03:49	dysfun_	oooh!
03:49	justin_smith	ahh, it's for character escapes
03:49	justin_smith	you could give up on having a character syntax I guess
03:49	dysfun_	yes, but it doesn't have any other uses
03:49	dysfun_	so i could for example do #\
03:50	dysfun_	as a reader macro, effectively
03:51	dysfun_	#@ is an option too
03:52	dysfun_	only other use for \ is escaping in strings i think
03:57	dysfun_	you couldn't do ~@ either, could you?
03:57	dysfun_	er ~@@
04:00	dysfun_	ah, no, it derefs properly
04:00	justin_smith	anyway, you can use deref instead of the @ syntax
04:01	justin_smith	though that may be inconvenient
04:01	dysfun_	yeah, but i don't want to make it tedious to use atoms. they're quite useful
04:02	dysfun_	~^ ?
04:02	clojurebot	Excuse me?
04:06	dysfun_	i think i've got enough characters for now, thanks for the help
04:06	m1dnight	Guys, implementation question: Why are the ensure locks retained during transaction retries?
04:06	m1dnight	Is there a specific reason? If you were to release them you simply re-aquire them, so I can't see a reason?
04:08	dysfun_	ooh, ~` wouldn't be valid, would it?
04:10	dysfun_	ah, yes it would
05:04	dysfun_	is the bugtracker the place to suggest a clojure feature?
05:09	amalloy	dysfun_: the clojure-dev mailing list
05:09	dysfun_	ty
05:23	r4vi	where would I put a system.properties file in a clojure project? alongside project.clj?
05:41	foodoo	,(let [x resolve] (doc x)); prints nothing
05:41	clojurebot	Excuse me?
05:42	foodoo	,(let [x resolve] (doc resolve)); prints the doc for the function resolve
05:42	clojurebot	"([sym] [env sym]); same as (ns-resolve ns symbol) or (ns-resolve ns &env symbol)"
05:42	foodoo	How can I bind a function/function name so that (doc) can work with it?
05:45	dysfun_	use a macro
05:46	dysfun_	or pass it in as a symbol
05:46	dysfun_	i'd probably do the latter
05:46	dysfun_	doc is a macro itself
05:56	clj-learner	why is this not working?
05:56	clj-learner	(ns fooo
05:56	clj-learner	(:require a.core)
05:56	clj-learner	(:refer [a.core :rename {b b2}]))
05:56	clj-learner	vector cannot be cast to symbol
06:00	TEttinger	clj-learner: refer goes in one of the vectors, if I recalll correctly, and isn't its own section like (:require)
06:01	dysfun_	(ns fooo (:require [a.core :rename {b b2}]))
06:01	dysfun_	although you probably want to refer b as well because otherwise you'll get everything
06:01	TEttinger	clj-learner: http://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html
06:02	clj-learner	thanks
06:08	amalloy	that article is four years old, TEttinger
06:08	amalloy	it recommends some things which are today considered little better than cannibalism
06:08	TEttinger	wow
06:08	TEttinger	did not know that
06:08	TEttinger	where's the good one?
06:10	amalloy	beats me
06:13	clj-learner	it works like this, but im not sure if i should use refer or use https://www.refheap.com/91953
06:30	TEttinger	refer
06:32	foodoo	What are the current documentation tools for Clojure? Autodoc doesn't seem to be compatible with Leiningen 2
06:33	ro_st	codox is another one
06:34	TEttinger	marginalia?
06:35	foodoo	TEttinger: My current project won't profit from literate programming. But still thanks for your answer
06:35	ro_st	Ring uses codox: http://ring-clojure.github.io/ring/ config: https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/tree/master/project.clj
06:35	foodoo	ro_st: Thanks, I'll have a look
06:40	foodoo	ro_st: Just ran codox on my codebase. Nifty! Thanks :)
06:40	ro_st	glad it worked out
06:41	ro_st	i'm quite looking forward to the simulation testing webinar next friday
06:41	ro_st	i really hope they show how to use causatum with simulant
06:50	noncom\|2	where is the source of "in-ns" ?
06:51	ro_st	in the java source
06:51	ro_st	-wild guess-
07:16	gfredericks	well I can see where it's created (in RT.java) but not where it gets a proper value...
07:18	gfredericks	oh there it is
07:18	gfredericks	noncom\|2: look for "final static IFn inNamespace" in RT.java
07:24	noncom\|2	thanks! :)
07:35	simao	what is the best way to test a string against a regex in a clojure test? Just want a func to return true/false, not a match or anything
07:36	ro_st	(boolean (re-find #"" ""))
07:36	simao	thanks
07:37	simao	Would think there was some way more concise ;)
07:37	ro_st	if there was, we'd have boolean variants of all our functions :-)
07:40	simao	eh :) Just thought there would be a better way to write this: (is (true? (boolean (re-find #"slave status unknow" (:status result)))))
07:40	simao	quite awkward no?
07:40	ro_st	(is (boolean ..))
07:40	ro_st	boolean returns true or false. true? returns true if its arg is `true`
07:41	ro_st	it's unnecessary to use true?
07:41	ro_st	you could also just (is (re-find #".." ..))
07:42	ro_st	i just checked in a repl: (if (re-find #"\d" "a") 1 2) ;; 2
07:42	simao	ah yeah, that looks much better, thanks.
08:15	gfredericks	simao: most boolean-like things in clojure respect general truthiness instead of just true v false
08:15	gfredericks	so it's rarel necessary to actually convert something to a boolean
08:15	simao	I see...
08:16	simao	It's a bit weird then
08:16	gfredericks	I think that's typical for dynamically-typed languages
08:17	simao	Is there a nice function that simplifies this? (assoc event :tags (vec (concat (or (:tags event) []) ["always-present-tag"])))
08:17	simao	kind of a deep merge of vecs inside an hash
08:18	gfredericks	,(def event {:tags ["foo" "bar"]})
08:18	clojurebot	#'sandbox/event
08:18	gfredericks	,(update event :tags conj "always-present-tag")
08:18	clojurebot	{:tags ["foo" "bar" "always-present-tag"]}
08:21	simao	"Unable to resolve symbol: update in this context"
08:21	simao	?
08:26	scottj	simao: maybe you want (update-in {} [:tags] (fnil conj [])"foo")
08:26	gfredericks	yeah update is new in 1.7
08:28	simao	ah ok
08:30	simao	that works, thanks
09:41	TimMc	"* gfredericks can't remember what erlang does" is good out of context
09:42	gfredericks	I wasn't even sure what java did when using a boxed boolean that turned out to be null
09:42	TimMc	OK, so I feel like maybe I need to make a fifo transport for nrepl. Anyone want to talk me out of this?
09:42	gfredericks	so I tried it -- compiles fine, but NPE at runtime
09:43	gfredericks	TimMc: what what why?
09:43	TimMc	clojurebot: gfredericks \|can't\| remember what erlang does
09:43	clojurebot	In Ordnung
09:44	TimMc	The situation is that I want to adapt LiveREPL to open a persistent nREPL session that I can connect to again later. However, that means opening up a port, which anyone on the machine could connect to, not just the user who launched the JVM (and therefore the user who connected via liverepl.
09:44	TimMc	)
09:45	gfredericks	erlang requires a true
09:45	TimMc	I think that the only way to secure this without passwords or an SSH lib is to use native filesystem security: Create a fifo (or pair of fifos...) with the correct permissions and read/write from that.
09:46	gfredericks	oh that's what fifo means
09:46	gfredericks	okay no I can't talk you out of that
09:48	mi6x3m	hello, I am trying to define a function with meta in a syntax quote
09:48	TimMc	gfredericks: aw shucks
09:48	mi6x3m	`(defn ^{:foo blabla} ....)
09:48	mi6x3m	but somehow when the function is defined I don't see the meta?
09:48	mi6x3m	could it be ^ doesn't work that well in syntax quote?
09:53	gfredericks	,(meta ` ^:foo bar)
09:53	clojurebot	{:foo true}
09:53	thomasfuston	Aloha, are there a recommended gui lib for clojure or just use the jave ones?
09:54	mi6x3m	thomasfuston: seesaw
09:54	mi6x3m	it's a wrapper of Swing
09:54	mi6x3m	and a fine one
09:54	Gurkenmaster	Why would anyone recommend swing?
09:55	mi6x3m	Gurkenmaster: because Swing is a nice library with great capabilities?
09:55	Gurkenmaster	It's still worse than javafx
09:56	mi6x3m	I think Swing does it's job
09:57	mi6x3m	JavaFX does it also
09:57	mi6x3m	but one being better than the other
09:57	mi6x3m	I don't know
09:57	mi6x3m	too bold of a statement
10:11	m1dnight	I'm going to ask again, in case somebody's here who knows: Is there a reason readlocks on refs (ensure) are held between retries in clojure?
10:14	donbonifacio	hello, how can I pass a collection as a variadic "argument" ?
10:16	ToxicFrog	donbonifacio: apply?
10:17	donbonifacio	yessss
10:18	donbonifacio	that's it ToxicFrog, thanks :)
10:33	jonh	moo
10:36	dysfun_	what causes defmacro to be run at compile time? is it a special form or is there some sort of metadata that controls it?
10:37	clj-learner	i'm trying to create a function that reads from cmdline using read-line but it doesnt work on the intellij repl, i get "DEBUG: unknown status need-input" and nothing happens if i submit stuff, i need to interrupt current execution
10:37	clj-learner	it works if i open a lein repl
10:38	dysfun_	i expect it's closed STDIN
10:45	clj-learner	how do i open the stdin?
10:50	dysfun_	you don't. if it's that, it's a limitation of the intellij repl
10:53	TimMc	$seen djpowell
10:53	lazybot	djpowell was last seen quitting 10 weeks ago.
10:53	TimMc	:-(
10:54	TimMc	I demand instantaneous communication!
10:54	clj-learner	is there an alternative to use the windows cmd then?
10:54	clj-learner	for the repl
10:57	justin_smith	dysfun_: regarding macros, there is a :macro true metadata
10:57	justin_smith	,(:macro (meta #'or))
10:57	clojurebot	true
10:57	dysfun_	yes, which isn't set on defmacro
10:58	justin_smith	ahh, that's what you are asking
10:58	dysfun_	is it a special form?
10:58	Bronsa	dysfun_: it is set on defmacro
10:58	justin_smith	,(:macro (meta #'defmacro))
10:58	clojurebot	true
10:58	Bronsa	.setMacro sets :macro true
10:58	dysfun_	oh. well it's not in the definition of setmacro. it must be set later
10:58	dysfun_	er defmacro
10:59	dysfun_	so the :macro property just controls whether it's evaluated at compile time?
10:59	Bronsa	dysfun_: immediately after the definition of defmacro there is (.setMacro #'defmacro)
10:59	Bronsa	dysfun_: yeah
10:59	dysfun_	oh. that cut off my screen
11:01	squeedee	why do i need to quote 'and' here? : (reduce 'and '(true true true))
11:01	dysfun_	and is a macro
11:02	squeedee	so quoting it stops it from inlining?
11:02	Bronsa	squeedee: that doesn't do what you think it does
11:02	dysfun_	what he said
11:02	Bronsa	squeedee: you can't use macros as higher order functions
11:02	dysfun_	you are calling the symbol 'and' on every invocation
11:02	Bronsa	,(reduce 'foo '(true true true))
11:02	clojurebot	true
11:02	Bronsa	,(reduce 'foo '(true false true))
11:02	clojurebot	true
11:02	Bronsa	,(reduce 'and '(true false true))
11:02	clojurebot	true
11:03	squeedee	oic
11:03	Bronsa	squeedee: if you need to "apply" or "reduce" and/or, there are a bunch of convenience functions that you can use
11:03	Bronsa	squeedee: look at some/not-any?/every?
11:04	squeedee	ok will do
11:04	squeedee	thankyou
11:04	dysfun_	the naming of not-any? still bugs me
11:05	squeedee	because its not-every?
11:05	dysfun_	no, it's not, it's not-some
11:05	dysfun_	and nevermind the fact some doesn't end with ?
11:05	squeedee	so some should be any
11:05	squeedee	that is strange to read
11:06	dysfun_	,any
11:06	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: any in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
11:06	dysfun_	there is an any? in useful, but that does a different thing
11:09	squeedee	(every? true? list) is what i was after. i guess it reads well
11:11	Bronsa	squeedee: unless you need to explicitely test for true rather than for truthy, you should use (every? identity list) instead
11:12	dysfun_	also consider keep
11:12	squeedee	you think that reads as well? given that all arguments will be bool.
11:12	dysfun_	well it's more about making things more general so they can be reused
11:13	squeedee	hmmm
11:15	squeedee	I am still quite green, but my take is that it would be an overgeneralization. I have a diff of two 'graphs' that tells me if each matching element is the same or not. Sometimes i just want to know if there are any differences.
11:16	squeedee	its a pretty specific dsl with a specific signature too, which may be where i'm holding on to imperative habbits
11:21	squeedee	my-way vs a-different-way ? https://gist.github.com/squeedee/bfad8db75f4664e4ad75
11:21	arrdem	$seen nkariniemi
11:21	lazybot	I have never seen nkariniemi.
11:21	arrdem	damnit
11:25	dysfun_	can you change the line number errors will be reported on during compilation?
11:25	dysfun_	perhaps something involving with-meta ?
11:30	justin_smith	,(require 'clojure.data)
11:30	clojurebot	nil
11:30	justin_smith	,(every? nil? (take 2 (clojure.data/diff {:a 0 :b 2 :c 3} {:a 0 :b 2 :c 3}))) ; squeedee
11:30	clojurebot	true
11:30	justin_smith	,(every? nil? (take 2 (clojure.data/diff {:a 0 :b 2 :c 3} {:a 0 :b 2 :c 4}))) ; squeedee
11:30	clojurebot	false
11:31	justin_smith	,(clojure.data/diff {:a 0 :b 2 :c 3} {:a 0 :b 1 :c 3})
11:31	clojurebot	({:b 2} {:b 1} {:c 3, :a 0})
11:31	justin_smith	it returns things only in a, things only in b, and the overlap as a three element list
11:32	squeedee	yeah its nice. My data is a sequence tho. unkeyed.
11:32	squeedee	would have to interpolate the index in i guess
11:32	justin_smith	,(clojure.data/diff [0 1 2] [0 1 3])
11:32	clojurebot	[[nil nil 2] [nil nil 3] [0 1]]
11:32	squeedee	oic
11:32	justin_smith	,(clojure.data/diff [0 1 2] [0 1 2])
11:32	clojurebot	[nil nil [0 1 2]]
11:32	squeedee	hah
11:32	squeedee	useful
11:33	squeedee	thanks
11:33	justin_smith	np
11:33	justin_smith	it comes with clojure.core iirc
11:34	squeedee	justin_smith: of course some of these helpful tools i don't look for while i just try to excercise my mind a little here, but now i've done it my way i'll switch to that.
11:36	justin_smith	squeedee: clojure.data is one of those hidden gems imho
11:36	squeedee	ugh clear liquid diet is driving me crazy. makes coding hard :P
11:37	dnolen_	Om 0.8.0-alpha1 is out, biggest change is refernce cursors https://github.com/swannodette/om/wiki/Advanced-Tutorial#reference-cursors
11:37	squeedee	hiya dnolen_ , Rasheed here. Glad to see you're still omming it up. One day I might get somewhere useful with it :D
11:38	squeedee	justin_smith: i am fighting a constant urge to create proxy functions in my namespaces.. like ok, data/diff is ace, but wheres the reminder that you should use it... so I find myself wanting mapper.diff/diff
11:54	christop1e	Guys, is the source for the evaluator bot open?
11:54	christop1e	I'd like to add it to my own bot :)
12:10	luxbock	m1dnight: https://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot
12:10	luxbock	there's also https://github.com/Raynes/lazybot
12:14	m1dnight	aha, great! :) thanks guys
12:15	m1dnight	It took my compsci frat a few minutes and they got my Scheme evaluating bot offline :p
12:15	m1dnight	forgot a few key primitives :p
12:56	whodidthis	was there a thingie somewhere that would run a jvm instance and then all lein tasks would use that instance
12:57	squeedee	trampoline?
12:57	clojurebot	trampoline is http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/6257cbc4454bcb85/3addf875319c5c10?#3addf875319c5c10
12:57	mdeboard	Oh, is that what trampoline is?
12:57	squeedee	dont take my word for it
12:58	squeedee	perhaps not
12:58	whodidthis	i think trampoline was 1 jvm instance per task
12:59	squeedee	yeah just not nested in leins
13:01	weavejester	Trampolining is the same principle in Clojure or Lein
13:01	weavejester	Essentially instead of executing a function or process
13:01	weavejester	You return a callback
13:02	weavejester	In Clojure’s case, that’s a zero-argument function
13:02	weavejester	In Lein’s case it’s a shell command in a temporary file
13:02	weavejester	It prevents nesting of either functions or processes
13:06	whodidthis	right, grenchman
13:06	whodidthis	i just remembered it was built by one of the greats so found it from techiemancer's repo list
13:11	mdeboard	techiemancer
13:11	mdeboard	lol
13:11	justin_smith	whodidthis: with something like grenchman, you may also end up finding pallet/alembic useful (in case you need to add deps)
13:11	mdeboard	I approve of the name change
13:11	bundacia	so, I'm brand new to clojure and am trying to get a feel for macros by implementing some if the built in control flow forms. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong in my attempt to make a "condp" macro.
13:12	bundacia	this is what I'm trying: (defmacro mycondp [op rhs lhs result & next] `(if (~op ~lhs ~rhs) ~result (mycondp ~op ~rhs ~@next)))
13:12	whodidthis	actually im just wondering how to fit more lein tasks on a 2gb server :S
13:12	m1dnight	refheap.com is easier to show us code bundacia
13:13	bundacia	cool. here it is on refheap: https://www.refheap.com/91973
13:13	the-kenny	dnolen_: You have just simplified the application I write at work in a massive scale on multiple levels. Thank you so much <3
13:13	dnolen_	the-kenny: :)
13:14	egghead	bundacia: do you know the rules of macro club yet?
13:14	bundacia	this is the error I'm getting: https://www.refheap.com/91974
13:15	bundacia	I do not know the rules of the macro club I guess. Didn't know there was a club =)
13:15	egghead	gfredericks has a pretty nice talk introducing macros bundacia - you should check it out http://www.infoq.com/presentations/macros-clojure-west-2013
13:16	bundacia	thanks egghead, I;'ll check that out.
13:16	the-kenny	dnolen_: I said it some time ago at EuroClojure, and I want to say it again: Thanks for Om. Without it, I'd still fight with Ember.js and build parts of the UI from a string out of deperation
13:19	bundacia	egghead: just googled the "rules" ;-) Mainly just wanting to understand them at this point so I can understand the built-in ones better.
13:22	the-kenny	dnolen_: One question: Are there performance benefits in using (transact! (:foo root-cursor) ...) compared to (swap! app-state update-in [:foo] ...)? (It will at least have the benefit of supporting tx-listen, right?)
13:24	egghead	bundacia: it may help to call (macroexpand '(mycondp < 2 1 :yep)) and consider what will happen if it keeps trying to expand
13:25	egghead	does om support querying the tx history with datalog yet
13:26	egghead	;)
13:26	whodidthis	is there a god lein template for clojure project with cider nrepl thingies ready
13:27	bundacia	egghead: got it. Didn't think it would keep trying to expend the false case.
13:29	mdeboard	Anyone have any indentation tweaks for clojure-mode in emacs?
13:30	the-kenny	mdeboard: what kind of tweaks?
13:30	mdeboard	like for example, there are some functions like map that always take a function, then basically an unlimited number of elements to map over
13:31	the-kenny	whodidthis: What do you mean by 'ready'? I just have [cider/cider-nrepl "0.8.0-SNAPSHOT"] in my :user profile and use lein repl (or `cider-jack-in') to connect. If you want something where nrepl+cider is embedded in the application itself, I'm afraid I can't help you :/
13:31	egghead	generally just https://github.com/bbatsov/clojure-style-guide mdeboard
13:32	mdeboard	It's usually about what element "hangs" on the end of a line
13:32	whodidthis	cool
13:33	mdeboard	https://gist.github.com/mattdeboard/614b2f2d1fdd2215133b
13:33	mdeboard	An example
13:33	mdeboard	the-kenny, egghead
13:33	mdeboard	I mean I get why it's like that
13:33	mdeboard	all just elements in a list, homoiconicity etc.
13:34	mdeboard	just, feh
13:34	egghead	ya, that is the default and recommended indentation
13:34	whodidthis	i want to try this "emacs" thingie
13:35	mdeboard	whodidthis: It's a flash in the pan
13:36	whodidthis	i did get some of that sexp sexyness in some vim plugin too
13:36	whodidthis	makes one wonder why all languages are not lisp
13:38	egghead	mdeboard: commented on the gist
13:38	whodidthis	https://github.com/weavejester/reloaded.repl is this currently still the state of art
13:39	whodidthis	on the reloaded workflow department
13:40	domokato	does clojure box primitive return values?
13:41	mdeboard	egghead: Yeah, I know that's the thing but just curious if anyone had defined any custom indentation rules for themselves in emacs
13:57	gfredericks	why does `lein release` ask me if I meant to say `lein deploy clojars`?
13:57	gfredericks	i.e., what is the best way to make that the default?
13:59	gfredericks	Ah I bet it is :deploy-repositories [["releases" :clojars]]
14:01	domokato	to answer my own question, looks like the source of float is just a function, so no. But correct me if I'm wrong
14:02	gfredericks	domokato: primitive return values from what? java interop methods?
14:02	domokato	clojure functions
14:02	gfredericks	by default everything is boxed
14:02	gfredericks	you have to go out of your way to get primitives to work across function calls
14:03	domokato	sigh, ok
14:03	domokato	thx
14:03	gfredericks	there's some nuances there, but assuming things are boxed is usually safe
14:04	mdeboard	I just want to take a second to acknowledge this hero https://groups.google.com/d/msg/clojurescript/Bd4MthunzkQ/AJxzblvUAG8J
14:05	mdeboard	He had a problem, posted to a newsgroup about it, then solved it and then posted the solution
14:05	mdeboard	instead of http://xkcd.com/979/
14:27	gfredericks	just made a plugin for doing `lein vcs tag` without a PGP signature, and for updating version documantation in README files: https://github.com/gfredericks/corncob-cigar
14:28	gfredericks	I used it to release itself
14:30	Jaood	a recursive plugin?
14:31	gfredericks	not more than any other dev tool
14:36	augustl	I have a transient map. Can I create a record from it or do I have to create a persistent map first?
14:39	hyPiRion	have to make it persistent
14:39	hyPiRion	Or well, eh.
14:41	augustl	I'm prematurely optimizing, could always write this part in Java if it turns out to matter :)
14:42	gfredericks	,(def m (transient {:foo 12 :bar 3}))
14:42	clojurebot	#'sandbox/m
14:42	gfredericks	,(keys m)
14:42	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap$TransientHashMap>
14:42	gfredericks	,(.getKeys m)
14:42	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: getKeys for class clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap$TransientHashMap>
14:42	augustl	I'm getting chunks of messages in sequence, one chunk represents a field, so I create a transient that I assoc into and when I have all the chunks I create a record
14:42	hyPiRion	augustl: yeah, it seems like map->X require a persistent map
14:42	gfredericks	,(get m :bar)
14:42	clojurebot	3
14:42	gfredericks	if you know the keys you prollably can
14:42	augustl	hmm didn't know you could get from transients
14:42	gfredericks	,(source frequencies)
14:42	clojurebot	Source not found\n
14:43	gfredericks	I don't think you could write frequencies otherwise
14:43	hyPiRion	Transients work like persistent data structures, except that you cannot use a transient after you've done an "update"
14:43	gfredericks	you can't "use" it?
14:43	augustl	I expected there to be a separate get! just like there's assoc!
14:43	gfredericks	,(assoc! m :hypirion 42)
14:43	clojurebot	#<TransientHashMap clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap$TransientHashMap@13b7ce9>
14:44	gfredericks	,(get m :hypirion)
14:44	clojurebot	42
14:44	hyPiRion	gfredericks: theoretically I meant
14:44	gfredericks	ooh that right
14:44	gfredericks	augustl: oh I see; yeah there's not really a need for that I guess
14:45	augustl	makes sense, only the "update" part of transients is different
14:47	hyPiRion	,(count (let [t (transient {})] (dotimes [i 100] (assoc! t i i)) (persistent! t)))
14:47	clojurebot	8
14:53	augustl	and now for something completely different.. Is there a way to break out of a "loop" other than recur-ing with a value that causes the loop to break based on my own loop code?
14:53	augustl	I really should just write this part in Java :) ZMQ sockets are such imperative, wow
14:53	justin_smith	augustl: just don't call recur!
14:53	augustl	justin_smith: ah :D
14:54	justin_smith	I mean, there are various reasons not to call recur, just make sure you don't call it
14:55	justin_smith	ie. sometimes I will stop recurring based on ##(.isInterrupted (Thread/currentThread))
14:55	lazybot	⇒ false
14:55	justin_smith	that will show as true if someone cancelled the thread (via future-cancel or whatever)
15:11	augustl	when using stuartsierra's components, are there any rules of thumb on what to create in the "create" part and what to create in "start"? Seems cleaner to me to create everything that doesn't have any state and side effects in create, such as connection objects, and call connect on them in start
15:13	kenrestivo	i guess if you will be calling stop and start, you'd put things you want done every time, in there. and things you only done once when first setting up the components, put in create?
15:13	kenrestivo	reminds me of the android life cycle onCreate onResume thing
15:15	augustl	kenrestivo: makes sense. If my objects/values I use in stop/start can be restarted (and in this case they can) I might as well reuse them
15:58	justin_smith	yeah, I think things that are values can be in create, things that are state should be in start (so they get a clean slate)
15:59	justin_smith	and if something is both value and state woah dude this is clojure why are you trying to write OO code?
16:39	SagiCZ1	briliant, check out motivational lorem ipsums http://www.loremfuckingipsum.com/
16:39	mdeboard	wtf
16:39	mdeboard	Why does this channel get such an insane a mount of spam
16:40	mdeboard	(relatively insane)
16:40	SagiCZ1	sorry
16:40	SagiCZ1	im no spam bot though
16:40	mdeboard	Yeah that's what you all say
16:40	mdeboard	Now you issue a pat rejoinder
16:40	SagiCZ1	i seriously thought that was interesting
16:40	mdeboard	Now I respond with how you're definitely a bot, and you say something predictable
16:40	SagiCZ1	(dec mdeboard)
16:40	lazybot	⇒ 9
16:42	mdeboard	This channel is pretty rife with spam. And when you mention spam after they spam, you all respond "I'm not a bot tho" never, "I'm not a spammer"
16:42	justin_smith	mdeboard: he's a pretty active regular here, I think he was just sharing a silly off topic thing he found
16:42	mdeboard	Ok
16:42	mdeboard	My bad then.
16:42	mdeboard	I just get so many dumb whispers from bots in this room :(
16:42	justin_smith	also, this channel is pretty heavily off topic
16:42	justin_smith	yeah, understood, very annoying
16:43	justin_smith	if you msg technomancy, he has ops and will kick and ban the spammers
16:43	mdeboard	idc about the off-topic at all, doesn't bother me. I just assume people posting random links and nothing else are bots now. Sorry SagiCZ1.
16:43	justin_smith	I think we need more folks with ops though
16:51	squeedee	clojure.org looks mighty slow from here
16:53	lvh	Is there a CLJS-supporting vector addition/mutliplication lib I can use? Don't need much; really just scalar products/linear combinations.
16:54	lvh	Right now I'm writing them myself
17:00	justin_smith	lvh: is there any cljs core.matrix support?
17:00	lvh	justin_smith: nope :( that was my first port of call as well
17:00	justin_smith	should have figured
17:08	lvh	justin_smith: fortunately I do not need particularly heavy math ops; it's pretty much just linera combinations of vectors :)
17:47	arrdem	justin_smith: good luck with that
17:48	arrdem	I suspect tech will be our only op for the forseable future
17:48	arrdem	at HackTx atm, if you have feature requests for Grimoire 0.4.0 speak now or hold your peace because this release is happening
17:50	justin_smith	arrdem: good luck with what? core.matrix in cljs?
17:50	justin_smith	ahh, regarding ops
17:50	arrdem	justin_smith: yeah ops. sorry.
18:01	pkkm	is there a better way to drop n characters from the beginning of a string than (apply str (drop n my-string)) ?
18:04	pkkm	nevermind, (subs n my-string)
20:35	andrewhr	anyone here that could enlight me about an issue of ClojureScript compiler? (http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-851)
21:46	johnwalker	how does one assert that an argument or field satisfies an interface?
21:47	johnwalker	for example, (defn foo [^IFn bar] (bar ..))
21:49	TEttinger	johnwalker: multimethods, probably
21:50	justin_smith	,(assert (contains? (supers (class [])) java.util.List))
21:50	clojurebot	nil
21:51	justin_smith	,(assert (contains? (supers (class [])) java.util.Map))
21:51	clojurebot	#<AssertionError java.lang.AssertionError: Assert failed: (contains? (supers (class [])) java.util.Map)>
21:51	johnwalker	,(satisfies? IFn (fn []))
21:51	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: IFn in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
21:51	justin_smith	all the interfaces it implements should show up in the supers (which is returned as a set, so you can use contains, subset, intersection, etc.)
21:52	justin_smith	ahh, satisfies may be more direct yeah :)
21:52	johnwalker	there's a core function thats ,(fn? (fn []))
21:52	johnwalker	,(fn? (fn []))
21:52	clojurebot	true
21:53	johnwalker	i guess asserts are a start
21:53	justin_smith	(source fn?)
21:53	justin_smith	,(source fn?)
21:53	clojurebot	Source not found\n
21:53	justin_smith	$source fn?
21:53	lazybot	fn? is http://is.gd/nTvi5s
21:53	johnwalker	good idea
21:53	justin_smith	it uses instance?
21:54	justin_smith	as do the other nearby predicates
21:54	justin_smith	sequential?, coutned? etc.
21:54	johnwalker	,(fn? {})
21:54	clojurebot	false
21:54	justin_smith	,(ifn? {})
21:54	clojurebot	true
21:55	johnwalker	ahh
21:55	jcsims	is there an idiomatic way to wrap a subset of routes in a ring app, instead of all of them?
21:56	johnwalker	very helpful
21:56	johnwalker	(inc justin_smith)
21:56	lazybot	⇒ 95
21:56	johnwalker	thanks!
21:56	weavejester	jcsims: A subset of routes is just a handler. It’s handlers all the way down.
21:57	justin_smith	johnwalker: np
21:57	jcsims	that's what I thought, but I'm trying to track down a new "Invalid anti-forgery token" problem that I didn't have before. I've got an 'anti-forgery-field' in the form
21:58	weavejester	jcsims: Do you have the session middleware applied?
21:58	jcsims	I'm using your ring-defaults library: https://www.refheap.com/91986
22:00	jcsims	when all routes were wrapped with site-defaults, it worked fine
22:00	weavejester	jcsims: Oh, you’ve got them setup next to each other.
22:00	weavejester	jcsims: You’re going to run into problems with side-effectful middleware
22:00	weavejester	jcsims: Anything that acts upon the body, like wrap-params.
22:01	weavejester	jcsims: I think it’s just wrap-params, actually.
22:02	jcsims	so it is just not possible to use the two different defaults in the same ring app, then?
22:05	weavejester	jcsims: You’d need to make sure that the side-effectful middleware was set at the top level
22:06	weavejester	jcsims: I think that’s just wrap-params and wrap-multipart-params. It might be worth having a config for middleware that’s side-effectful.
22:07	weavejester	jcsims: But you can do it manually by turning those off and applying them at the top level. Or just apply wrap-params at the top level, because that’s the only side-effectful middleware used by both your routes.
22:09	jcsims	ok, I'll have to revisit this tomorrow, but I will keep that in mind - when you say 'top level', are you referring to inside 'app's definition, or elsewhere?
22:23	vanila	Did rich hickey write the entire compiler by himself?
22:27	TEttinger	vanila: take a look for yourself, https://github.com/clojure/clojure/graphs/contributors
22:28	weavejester	jcsims: You want to ensure that wrap-params is only applied once.
22:31	vanila	Wow!!!! What a boss
22:31	vanila	so much work
22:31	vanila	im sure everyones contributions are really valuable but he put so much in!
22:32	justin_smith	vanila: he took years on the project
22:32	justin_smith	(well, I guess that shows in the graphs)
22:32	vanila	yeah!
22:33	johnwalker	damn thats a lot
22:45	TEttinger	vanila, rich hickey kinda discovered a few of the data structure varieties clojure uses. Persistent Immutable Hashmaps are internally represented as 32-tries I think, which was not a common method but allows the sharing of state between similar maps
22:46	amalloy	you gotta remember that 178,000 lines of java is really only like a thousand lines of clojure
22:46	catern	TEttinger: where's his papers on them, then
22:46	amalloy	TEttinger: he didn't invent HAMTs; they're an implementation of phil bagwell's ideas
22:47	TEttinger	amalloy, is clojure the first implementation of them in practice?
22:47	catern	TEttinger: it's not like he's some kind of CS genius (although I will change this opinion if he actually does have papers)
22:47	amalloy	the first that i'm aware of
22:48	catern	every language loves its BFDL
22:48	TEttinger	catern, the fact that he isn't a theorist is part of why clojure's so successful; it's a productive language because rich needed it for work, so it had to work
22:49	catern	TEttinger: okay so don't imply he is, "discovered a few of the data structure varieties clojure uses"
22:49	TEttinger	did I use the term CS genius?
22:50	vanila	but he wrote an entire compiler himself
22:50	vanila	so he must be at least a bitof genius
22:50	TEttinger	he's hard-working, certainly
22:50	catern	that's not that big of a deal
22:50	catern	tens of thousands of students write compilers every 3 months
22:50	john2x	he's above average?
22:51	catern	(but yes it's of course somewhat impressive)
22:52	TEttinger	He's a good combination of pragmatic, experienced, and hard-working, but I wouldn't describe any of clojure's underpinnings as especially "above the limits of normal programmer understanding"
22:53	vanila	is there a breakdown of how the compiler works? or a series of blog posts about it
22:53	vanila	im realyl intrested in learning about compilers
22:53	TEttinger	clojure happens to inherit most of the advantages of earlier lisp designs, which helps a huge amount design-wise
22:53	catern	vanila: you could read a compiler textbook or read the source of a teaching compiler
22:55	TEttinger	vanila: most compiler writing how-tos with implementation specifics expect you to know C, or sometimes Haskell. there's a good one that walks you through creating your own forth in assembly, an old approach that still works, though it won't be a practical language
22:56	vanila	TEttinger, that forth one sounds really awesome do you remember what it was called?
22:59	TEttinger	http://www.eecs.wsu.edu/~hauser/teaching/Arch-F07/handouts/jonesforth.s.txt
22:59	TEttinger	vanila, it took me a bit to find it, but I think that's it
23:00	TEttinger	there's also the "make your own lisp in haskell" wikibook
23:00	vanila	cheers!
23:01	vanila	im going to try to do the forth one :)
23:02	TEttinger	ah, this one https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Write_Yourself_a_Scheme_in_48_Hours
23:02	TEttinger	good luck, vanila! I'd be curious to see it translated to a platform independent assembly-like language such as JVM or CLR opcodes
23:15	kenrestivo	has anyone done a transit implementation for c or c++? my google-fu is failing.
23:17	kenrestivo	hmm, nevermind, turns out i don't need it.
23:42	squeedee	Anyone in Manhattan here? Im stuck in hospital and need a decent coffee!
23:44	TEttinger	squeedee, fake the symptoms of methanol poisoning to get them to get you drunk
23:46	TEttinger	(the best cure for methanol poisoning, commonly caused by bad moonshine, is to get your body to digest a ton of regular (grain) alcohol, ethanol. the body prefers to digest ethanol first, and it lets methanol pass if you stay drunk enough)
23:55	kenrestivo	tips every clojure programmer should know
23:55	MrJones98	anyone here familiar with clojure.tools.nrepl.server?
23:56	justin_smith	MrJones98: sure, what about it?
23:56	MrJones98	trying to use the default-handler and pass in some middleware
23:56	justin_smith	oh sorry, I've never used the middleware options at all
23:56	MrJones98	i admit i don’t understand the first thing about it and trying to adapt someone’s PR to lein-ring
23:57	MrJones98	justin_smith: darn
23:57	MrJones98	:-)
23:57	MrJones98	i’m getting a runtime exception - unable to resolve var