#clojure – 2014-08-07

2014-08-07

00:00	ambrosebs	they mostly implement "flat" contracts, like even?, contains?
00:00	ambrosebs	and some higher-order function contracts
00:00	ambrosebs	it gets interesting when you want to constraint a channel to accept a function of certain input/output
00:01	ambrosebs	and then something deep inside the program goes wrong
00:02	ambrosebs	you basically end up creating a wrapper proxy of a channel that delays the checks, and remembers the relevant line numbers to blame if things go wrong
00:02	ambrosebs	erm, I'm sure I'll think of a better way of explaining that!
00:02	ambrosebs	in other words: preconditions/schema are just the beginning
00:05	trptcolin	sure
00:07	danielcompton	technomancy: can lein plugins be used as release tasks in lein release?
00:27	hellofunk	In Om, with build-all, if you supply optional map m with state, that same state is applied to all components created by build-all?
00:38	technomancy	danielcompton: definitely
00:39	danielcompton	technomancy: I figured it out, I had a custom rpm build process happening before deploy, deploy cleans up the target directory which was removing the rpm
00:41	notostraca	danielcompton: moral of the story, never clean anything, especially binaries or the human body
00:42	notostraca	weird, some netsplits on quakenet and freenode within 4 minutes of each other
00:45	amalloy	notostraca: maybe some physicists just discovered electricity is impossible and it's rippling out to the internet
00:46	gfixler	notostraca: is the pattern that of a standard shockwave pattern?
00:48	notostraca	heh
00:49	notostraca	yeah we had an earthquake on the other side of a small lake (staying at a lakefront home) on 4th of july weekend
00:49	notostraca	my dog was TERRIFIED
00:49	notostraca	at the same time there was thunder and lightning
00:49	notostraca	and later fireworks
00:49	notostraca	"why did you bring me here human?"
00:49	ambroseb_	,(doc sequence)
00:49	clojurebot	"([coll] [xform coll] [xform coll & colls]); Coerces coll to a (possibly empty) sequence, if it is not already one. Will not force a lazy seq. (sequence nil) yields (), When a transducer is supplied, returns a lazy sequence of applications of the transform to the items in coll(s), i.e. to the set of first items of each coll, followed by the set of second items in each coll, until any one of the co...
00:50	notostraca	transducer!
00:50	ambroseb_	,clojure-version
00:50	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 7, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
00:50	notostraca	aaaaaa
00:50	notostraca	someone change the title?
00:50	notostraca	is it out yet?
00:50	ambroseb_	alpha-1 is out yes
00:50	notostraca	awesome
00:51	notostraca	I never upgraded to 1.6 because I didn't understand reducers yet, or why I should use them
00:51	notostraca	if 1.7 is improving on them, I think I should learn :)
00:53	trptcolin	,(sequence (map inc) (range 10))
00:53	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 ...)
00:53	trptcolin	aww ambrosebs is using me as a repl from twitter isn't he
01:09	notostraca	,(sequence (map sequence) ["foo" "bar"])
01:09	clojurebot	((\f \o \o) (\b \a \r))
01:33	danielcompton	technomancy: is there a way to not sign a git tag when doing ["vcs" "tag"] ?
01:34	danielcompton	In a lein release
01:34	Raynes	Why would you ever want to do a thing like that
01:35	danielcompton	Raynes: gpg export laws
01:36	notostraca	all the syrian warlords love lein
01:46	amalloy	are there export laws that prohibit the distribution of signed objects? that seems super-weird. the USA used to have a low prohibiting the export of algorithms, but adding a single number to your artifact...?
01:56	mdeboard	I'm pretty stumped here. I'm trying to use a multimethod in clojurescript but I can't actually access the state I need to
01:57	mdeboard	I have a k/v pair like {:showing :all} in app state, but when I try (:showing app-state), it's nil
01:57	mdeboard	I'm following the tutorail :(
01:57	mdeboard	tutorial too
01:57	mdeboard	obv i've hosed someting
02:07	amalloy	mdeboard: no way to tell without some kind of code. so far it's "i have a green apple, but for some reason it's red"
02:08	mdeboard	slave driver.
02:08	mdeboard	I am trying to get my code in some kind of order so i can paste it
02:08	mdeboard	without it being totally impossible to decipher
02:08	amalloy	it's possible you're missing a deref or something? maybe app-state is (atom {:x :y}), not just {:x :y}
02:09	mdeboard	https://gist.github.com/mattdeboard/e2e473558572a202d9e6 is the code
02:09	amalloy	you can try printing out stuff like (type app-state), (keys app-state), and so on, to see which of your assumptions is false first
02:09	amalloy	(assuming here that type is a function that makes sense in cljs)
02:09	mdeboard	I'm trying to use multi-method based off the value of a key in app-state, but for whatever reason it doesn't work
02:09	mdeboard	app-state in the defmulti is a PersistentVector, not a MapCursor
02:10	mdeboard	The dispatch is on line 87
02:10	danielcompton	amalloy: I was meaning export laws for gpg
02:10	mdeboard	I was just passing `app`, but that wasn't working so I tried making a new map
02:18	mdeboard	I got it working just referrig to the global app-state thing instead of the app snapshot being passed to `defmulti`... I don't think it's supposed to work like that.
03:19	piranha	anybody can explain like I'm five why transducers are cool? :)
03:23	SHODAN	piranha, because they help you take over the world quicker
03:24	piranha	SHODAN: that's what I understood as well, but how?
03:24	piranha	That's the main question, to be honest
03:24	piranha	they look like a partial application of map/reduce and I honestly don't really understand implications or applicability
03:24	SHODAN	they do it by vaporizing the temporal plasma causes fluctuations in the quantum area
03:25	piranha	what's so cool about them that I wasn't able to do as good before...
03:25	piranha	:-)
03:25	SHODAN	oops ;)
03:25	SHODAN	didn't read that through :)
03:34	TEttinger	piranha, oh my god where are your parents?
03:34	TEttinger	we need to get you into child protective services
03:37	pyrtsa	piranha: They're a composable representation of operations on a sequential "stream" of elements, meaning they're used alike for seqs, reducers and core.async channels.
03:38	pyrtsa	What the intro blog post didn't highlight is that the evaluating operations (sequence, transduce, ...) for transducers take into account when the value is `(reduced x)`, i.e. there is a way to break out of the iteration.
03:47	TEttinger	pyrtsa: !!!
03:49	amalloy	TEttinger: surely that's not news: reduce has had that feature since 1.5, and transducers are just combinators for reducing
03:49	TEttinger	I didn't realize what transducers did really
03:49	TEttinger	or reducers for that matter
03:52	wink	TEttinger: something with burritos, right?
03:52	pyrtsa	Burritos indeed. :)
04:09	piranha	pyrtsa: hm, that makes some sense
04:10	piranha	TEttinger: redurers are easy - they are just same map/filter/reduce, but working in parallel
04:12	TEttinger	cool
04:12	clgv	pyrtsa: wink: what's taccos then?
04:13	pyrtsa	I suppose reducers are like tacos.
04:15	hyPiRion	So now for the winning question: What would (sequence ((filter even?) (map #(* 3 %))) [1 2 3]) return?
04:16	pyrtsa	hyPiRion: An error! (You forgot the comp.)
04:16	hyPiRion	pyrtsa: no, and that's the problem :p
04:16	pyrtsa	But the point of course is that the composition is read left-to-right, unlike with ordinary functions in (comp f g).
04:16	pyrtsa	hyPiRion: Ouch!
04:16	hyPiRion	I get (3 6 9)
04:17	clgv	yeah, (->> seq (map inc) (filter even?)) gbeing equivalent to ((comp (map inc) (filter even?)) seq) is quite puzzling
04:17	pyrtsa	clgv: See what hyPiRion wrote. That bug will come and bite us.
04:17	clgv	pyrtsa: yes.
04:18	amalloy	piranha: "in parallel" is far from the most interesting part of reducers
04:18	pyrtsa	I mean, the fact that its a bug of our own and the library doesn't warn us of it.
04:18	piranha	amalloy: hm, what's the most interesting part?
04:18	clgv	pyrtsa: hyPiRion: but there is no easy fix with respect to how transducers are currently implemented since they are regular functions
04:18	amalloy	more exciting is reducing over something which is not a sequence: you don't have to allocate a zillion cons cells, or worry about management of non-memory resources being held onto for too long or whatever
04:19	hyPiRion	clgv: I know, but it's easy to be confused
04:19	piranha	ah...
04:19	pyrtsa	I quite dislike the overloading of functions with varying arities in transducers/reducers. I'd think it's best to pass the initial value explicitly.
04:19	clgv	hyPiRion: that's what I thought immediately when reading the blog post
04:20	clgv	I first thought they had a separate namespace like reducers
04:22	hyPiRion	pyrtsa: I find it a bit strange. They could've just added mapt, filtert, etc. to avoid that
04:22	pyrtsa	Yep.
04:24	clgv	hyPiRion: or a separate namespace like for reducers
04:24	hyPiRion	clgv: right, that would work too
04:24	clgv	well I guess the intention of that alpha release and the announcement was to get discuission ;)
04:25	Bronsa	exceptions with transducers are going to be fun
04:26	clgv	Bronsa: yeah, it would help to be able to name the result functions, I guess. similar to (fn myname [] ...)
04:26	amalloy	clgv: the problem with that approach is that with reducers in a separate namespace, nobody uses them at all. nothing is compatible. by glomming onto stuff in clojure.core, at least transducers will be useable
04:27	AeroNotix	Can anyone ELI5 http://blog.cognitect.com/blog/2014/8/6/transducers-are-coming ?
04:27	clgv	amalloy: you think the extra namespace leads to less usage for core.reducers?
04:28	amalloy	clgv: not just the extra namespace, but the fact that it's all isolated. there's r/map, which is distinct from clojure.core/map and you have to commit to using one or the other throughout most of your program
04:28	clgv	I am curious what would be the reasons. I didn't get that expression with usual libraries
04:29	clgv	amalloy: but map without a seuqence will also be completely different than with a sequence, right?
04:29	pyrtsa	To me it seems like the logical reason is we've already seen map/filter/take-while/drop/reduce/... in clojure.core and clojure.core.reducers, and they were making entry to clojure.core.async. Finding a common implementation for all 3 (and more) saves a lot of trouble.
04:30	amalloy	yes. but i can use the new map without having to lose compatibility with code that uses the old one
04:31	clgv	amalloy: humm without a concrete example for demonstration, I just have to believe that claim for now
04:31	amalloy	or disbelieve! i'm just some guy on the internet
04:32	hyPiRion	AeroNotix: (transduce (comp (map #(+ 5 %)) (filter even?)) str [1 2 3 4]) => "68". It's like (reduce str (filter even? (map #(+ 5 %) [1 2 3 4]))), but you can easily replace [1 2 3 4] with some other data structure/list-like thing (like channels)
04:32	clgv	amalloy: you have gained "some" credibility for me from reading your posts & co ;)
04:33	AeroNotix	hyPiRion: so the benefit is that it works with different datastructures other than sequences?
04:33	lpvb	how do I (doseq [x coll index (range (count coll))] ) like I intended? It looks like it's doing it in a nondeterministic way
04:34	hyPiRion	AeroNotix: Right, it can be used for core.async and core.reducers. It can be lazy (like map) or eager (like reduce/reducers).
04:34	AeroNotix	hyPiRion: the blog post made it ten times more confusing than that. Is that all there is to it?
04:34	sm0ke	is rich becoming a benevolent dictator?
04:35	sm0ke	why are there no CIP kind of thing? Clojure Improvement Proposal?
04:35	amalloy	[[x coll] (map-indexed list coll)] would be one way
04:36	hyPiRion	AeroNotix: That's the core of it, as far as I understand
04:36	AeroNotix	hyPiRion: that definitely could've been expressed better
04:36	clgv	sm0ke: that's called jira ;)
04:36	sm0ke	where is the jira for this?
04:36	sm0ke	tranducers
04:36	hyPiRion	AeroNotix: yeah, it's usually like that :p
04:37	clgv	sm0ke: I dont know whether that has a ticket yet
04:37	clgv	sm0ke: is there a design page yet?
04:37	mercwithamouth	any cool projects going on?
04:37	sm0ke	mercwithamouth: clojure community is confused on what is this tranducers
04:38	lpvb	amalloy: thanks
04:38	amalloy	whether it has a ticket yet? there will never be a ticket saying "add transducers to clojure"; rich has done it already
04:38	sm0ke	at least the mass of it
04:39	mercwithamouth	sm0ke: thats hot...
04:39	Glenjamin	my reading was "while adding a thing, i noticed it shares some stuff with two other things. The commonalities are now extracted and called transducers"
04:40	clgv	Glenjamin: yeah, read that as well. the implementation does not quite reflect "extracted" though ;)
04:40	Glenjamin	consolidated perhaps :)
04:41	hyPiRion	Glenjamin: "I can't use the same transformations over channels, lazy-seqs and core.reducers. So I added this new thing which makes you able to do so"
04:41	hyPiRion	Although your wording was way more precice
04:41	Glenjamin	heh
04:42	hyPiRion	Wonder how many years it'll take before Go supports the same thing.
04:48	djcoin	Does anyone have an opinion on D (being used at facebook for example) that has macros, has functional idioms etc.?
05:01	lpvb	should I (defn -main [& args] ... 0)
05:01	lpvb	does clojure do return codes
05:03	mpenet	lpvb: java does, (System/exit 0)
05:08	Bronsa	amalloy: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1494
05:11	Glenjamin	,(mapcat inc)
05:11	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.core$map$fn__4338>
05:26	hellofunk	any idea why i'd get a lazy sequence on something after calling doall on it? I have a (doall (filter ...) ) and when I log this value to javascript console, it says it is a lazy sequence
05:27	TEttinger	hellofunk, a lazy seq of lazyseqs maybe?
05:27	hellofunk	TEttinger hm, well it looks like this (doall (filter (complement ... but everything after that is concrete data in Om, all vectors in the app state
05:28	hellofunk	the fn I complement in is a set, using set-as-function
05:28	TEttinger	,(doall (map identity (repeat 3 5)))
05:28	clojurebot	(5 5 5)
05:29	amalloy	(doall x) always returns x. if you give it a lazy seq, you get a lazy seq back
05:29	amalloy	it's one that's had its elements evaluated, but it's still a lazy seq
05:30	hellofunk	amalloy ah, the bit about doall retaining the head and returning the entire sequence in memory suggests it is not lazy (as per the docs)
05:30	gws	,(doc doall)
05:30	amalloy	hellofunk: uhhhh, well that's kinda the whole point. if it were lazy it wouldn't have a name starting with do
05:30	clojurebot	"([coll] [n coll]); When lazy sequences are produced via functions that have side effects, any effects other than those needed to produce the first element in the seq do not occur until the seq is consumed. doall can be used to force any effects. Walks through the successive nexts of the seq, retains the head and returns it, thus causing the entire seq to reside in memory at one time."
05:31	hellofunk	amalloy no my point is that the docs suggest it is realizing the whole seq, therefore not returning it in a lazy form
05:31	amalloy	it is realizing the whole seq
05:31	hellofunk	amalloy but you are saying that it could return a lazy seq, even though it is realizing the whole seq?
05:31	gws	and then it's returning the head of the lazy seq :)
05:31	amalloy	but the object is still a lazy sequence: in clj-jvm, its class is LazySeq
05:32	amalloy	it's a LazySeq whose elements are all realized; it doesn't by some magic transmute itself into a vector or whatever
05:32	hellofunk	ok, so how to convert a lazy seq into a non-lazy seq? call seq on it?
05:33	amalloy	you are not understanding what "lazy seq" means
05:33	amalloy	it is a sequence whose elements might, or might not, actually exist in memory
05:33	amalloy	a lazy seq with all elements in memory is "not lazy" in the sense that you mean, but it is still a lazy seq
05:34	hyPiRion	hellofunk: it's not a question of converting a lazy seq into a non-lazy seq, but rather how to realise the lazy seq
05:35	hellofunk	ok, this is news to me. but I still need to figure out how to have a concrete collection rather than a lazy collection, so that the results of my operation are no longer a lazy seq
05:36	hellofunk	this answer from Rich is throwing me off: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1641626/how-to-convert-lazy-sequence-to-non-lazy-in-clojure
05:38	hellofunk	looks like in my case it is as simple as doing (into [] ...) to convert iit
05:38	amalloy	hellofunk: i don't know what is throwing you off, but it is not that answer from rich (which says exactly what hyPiRion and i are saying). you don't understand the question you are asking, and when people tell you that you already answered it yourself you're refusing and then asking the question again
05:38	hellofunk	amalloy how did I answer the question myself?
05:39	amalloy	you called doall. that is literally all you need. the sequence's items are therefore all in memory
05:39	hyPiRion	hellofunk: "Just because the seq has type LazySeq doesn't mean it has pending evaluation"
05:39	amalloy	there is no "un-lazying" more thorough than that
05:40	amalloy	how weird that that's the one and only question on SO that rich has ever answered. was it such a traumatic experience for him?
05:40	hellofunk	amalloy well, my issue was only resolved by doing a (into [] ...) the doall was not sufficing for my purposes, so indeed I was likely not asking the right question.
05:41	amalloy	you must not be, because so far your questions have been "how do i make it not lazy"; if (into []) solves the problem but doall doesn't, it must be a totally different problem
05:42	hellofunk	amalloy in Om the rule is not to put lazy seqs into the appstate data. I still had a lazy seq even after calling doall, so my question was, how to convert it into something not lazy. as doall did not resolve this, I eventually arrived at using into
06:03	hellofunk	i found it necessary to upvote that question just so Rich wasn't stuck with a rep of 666
06:03	visof	hi
06:05	visof	when trying to execute this code i got this error https://www.refheap.com/89011 , which refer createKeyIndex isn't defined for OrientGraph class, but i'm following the documentation here https://github.com/orientechnologies/orientdb/wiki/Graph-Database-Tinkerpop at Use indices section
06:06	visof	can anybody suggest anything about this problem?
06:11	clgv	,(clojure-version)
06:11	clojurebot	"1.7.0-master-SNAPSHOT"
06:11	clgv	ah wow ^^
06:11	clgv	,(map inc)
06:11	clojurebot	#<core$map$fn__4338 clojure.core$map$fn__4338@125b4d>
06:13	alexyakushev	,(transduce (comp (map inc) (filter even?)) + 0 (range 10))
06:13	clojurebot	30
06:14	alexyakushev	Cool
06:14	alexyakushev	(->> (range 10) (filter even?) (map inc) (reduce + 0))
06:14	alexyakushev	,(->> (range 10) (filter even?) (map inc) (reduce + 0))
06:14	clojurebot	25
06:15	Bronsa	alexyakushev: that's not the same
06:15	alexyakushev	Bronsa: I get it now
06:15	Bronsa	,(->> (range 10) (map inc) (filter even?) (reduce + 0))
06:15	clojurebot	30
06:15	alexyakushev	I thought comp applies arguments in the reverse order
06:15	alexyakushev	Duh
06:15	visof	can anybody help?
06:16	Bronsa	it does, that behaviour is just a result of how transducers compose
06:16	alexyakushev	,((comp inc #(* 2 %)) 10)
06:16	clojurebot	21
06:16	alexyakushev	Bronsa: OK, so that is something to be careful about
06:17	Bronsa	yeah, you just have to remember to compose transducers as if you were using ->> rather than comp
06:18	alexyakushev	Can't say I like it:(
06:19	Glenjamin	,(doc comp)
06:19	clojurebot	"([] [f] [f g] [f g h] [f1 f2 f3 & fs]); Takes a set of functions and returns a fn that is the composition of those fns. The returned fn takes a variable number of args, applies the rightmost of fns to the args, the next fn (right-to-left) to the result, etc."
06:21	alexyakushev	First it was "return type is based on arity", now comp works in different order if it works with transducers
06:21	alexyakushev	And the former has already leaked leading to creation of "flatmap" because mapcat already has varargs
06:22	Bronsa	alexyakushev: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1494
06:23	alexyakushev	This might break existing code
06:23	Bronsa	no
06:23	Bronsa	(mapcat f) has never worked, I explain that in the description
06:23	alexyakushev	Yeah, right, sorry
06:24	alexyakushev	Got it confused with concat
06:25	alexyakushev	Anyway the whole thing seems crutchy. Reducer functions lived perfectly in their own namespace, why couldn't transducers?
06:25	lvh	man I dislike jira
06:26	alexyakushev	Especially since the transducer operations are the only one left necessary (so that operations on reducers and channels can be removed)
06:26	lvh	alexyakushev: I think the idea is that transducers are a sufficiently awesome new discovery that it makes sense for them to be the default; also that typically they can be implemented without bothering existing code
06:26	lvh	yeah I don't get the channel one
06:26	lvh	I understand why you want to apply a transducer to a channel
06:27	lvh	I don't udnerstand why it has to be in the place of the buffer arg
06:28	Glenjamin	,(do (require core.async) (doc core.async/chan))
06:28	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: core.async, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
06:28	Glenjamin	,(do (require 'core.async) (doc core.async/chan))
06:28	clojurebot	#<FileNotFoundException java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate core/async__init.class or core/async.clj on classpath: >
06:29	Glenjamin	http://clojure.github.io/core.async/#clojure.core.async/chan <- the buffer is the second arg, transducer is the third - was buffer third before?
06:29	alexyakushev	lvh: fair enough, but I can't see why they have to be default for sequence manipulation. There's only a performance benefit in the end, but generic sequence operations are easier to reason about
06:29	lvh	Glenjamin: I thought I saw an example in Rich's blog post where it was (chan tx), not (chan 1 tx) or something like that
06:29	lvh	could just be a bug in the blog post
06:30	lvh	or maybe I just misread, of course :)
06:30	alexyakushev	lvh: I doubt anyone will initially write the algorithm with transducers. Rather write in generic way, then rewrite to transducers
06:32	alexyakushev	Say, how do you execute ,(map inc (range 5)) with transducers?
06:32	alexyakushev	,(into () (map inc) (range 5))
06:32	clojurebot	(5 4 3 2 1)
06:32	alexyakushev	And oops
06:34	alexyakushev	,(sequence (map inc) (range 5))
06:34	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5)
06:35	pyrtsa	,(into [] (map inc) (range 5))
06:35	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4 5]
06:50	clgv	,(source into)
06:50	clojurebot	Source not found\n
06:50	clgv	,(doc into)
06:50	clojurebot	"([to from] [to xform from]); Returns a new coll consisting of to-coll with all of the items of from-coll conjoined. A transducer may be supplied."
06:50	clgv	uh oh
06:51	scape_	i think that's not wise, to have xform in between the two. seems confusing as an overloaded argument
06:55	scape_	,(doc filter)
06:55	clojurebot	"([pred] [pred coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of the items in coll for which (pred item) returns true. pred must be free of side-effects. Returns a transducer when no collection is provided."
06:55	sveri	Hi, what is the best way to execute a function at a given time only once? I was thinking about using quartzite...but it seems like one can only define cronjob like repeating events...
06:59	scape_	,(doc reduce)
06:59	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f val coll]); f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied, returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll contains no items, f must accept no arguments as well, and reduce returns the result of calling f with no arguments. If coll has only 1 item, it is returned and f is not called. If val i...
06:59	clgv	sveri: if you dont find anything else, you hack it by jurst removing the cronjob when it is triggered
06:59	visof	can i cast types in java inside clojure?
06:59	scape_	,(reduce (filter even) (range 5))
06:59	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: even in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
06:59	scape_	,(reduce (filter even?) (range 5))
06:59	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core/filter/fn--4361>
07:00	pyrtsa	,(sequence (filter even?) (range 5))
07:00	clojurebot	(0 2 4)
07:00	scape_	oh
07:01	visof	how can i cast in clojure?
07:01	Bronsa	visof: what do you need that for?
07:02	visof	when trying to execute this code i got this error https://www.refheap.com/89011 , which refer createKeyIndex isn't defined for OrientGraph class, but i'm following the documentation here https://github.com/orientechnologies/orientdb/wiki/Graph-Database-Tinkerpop at Use indices section , i want to change graph OrientGraph type to OrientBaseGraph
07:02	visof	Bronsa: which is should be something like ((OrientBaseGraph) graph)
07:04	Bronsa	visof: OrientGraph doesn't extend OrientBaseGraph
07:04	Bronsa	I'm looking at http://www.tinkerpop.com/docs/javadocs/blueprints/2.0.0/com/tinkerpop/blueprints/impls/orient/OrientGraph.html#createKeyIndex(java.lang.String,%20java.lang.Class)
07:05	visof	Bronsa: so what do you suggest?
07:05	Bronsa	I don't know, I don't know that library
07:05	Bronsa	you need to use the right object, clojure has nothing to do with that
07:05	llasram	visof: Check your versions? What version of blueprints do you have?
07:06	visof	llasram: 2.5.0
07:06	visof	Bronsa: the right object as in doc should be OrientGraph which i use
07:07	visof	llasram: what i have in project [com.tinkerpop.blueprints/blueprints-core "2.5.0"]
07:08	Bronsa	visof: http://www.tinkerpop.com/docs/javadocs/blueprints/2.1.0/com/tinkerpop/blueprints/impls/orient/OrientGraph.html loks like that method has been removed
07:09	Bronsa	ah I see nevermind
07:09	visof	Bronsa: check this section Methods inherited from class com.tinkerpop.blueprints.impls.orient.OrientBaseGraph
07:10	Bronsa	visof: it shouldn't really necessary to cast, but try ^OrientBaseGraph graph
07:11	llasram	visof: Since there's doc-confusion, you could use reflection to see exactly what methods are present
07:11	Bronsa	visof: also try (filter #(= "createKeyIndex" (.getName %)) (seq (.getMethods (class graph))))
07:12	Bronsa	llasram: lol ^
07:12	sveri	clgv: Hm, I am afraid thats the way I will have to do it
07:12	llasram	Bronsa: It's not really a jinx when one person has far more specific advice while the other is still waking up and remembering how their REPL works ;-)
07:15	clgv	sveri: but maybe you overlooked a one shot job option?
07:15	visof	Bronsa: (#<Method public void com.tinkerpop.blueprints.impls.orient.OrientBaseGraph.createKeyIndex(java.lang.String,java.lang.Class,com.tinkerpop.blueprints.Parameter[])>)
07:15	Bronsa	visof: yeah you see, the method signature is different
07:16	Bronsa	you need to provide another argument, an array of Parameters, whatever that needs to be
07:16	Bronsa	visof: you can try using (object-array [])
07:17	visof	brixen: ClassCastException Cannot cast [Ljava.lang.Object; to [Lcom.tinkerpop.blueprints.Parameter; java.lang.Class.cast
07:17	Bronsa	err (into-array Parameter [])
07:18	Bronsa	that should make the method call work, next you need to figure out what that param actually is
07:18	Bronsa	visof: http://www.tinkerpop.com/docs/javadocs/blueprints/2.4.0/com/tinkerpop/blueprints/impls/orient/OrientBaseGraph.html#createKeyIndex(java.lang.String,%20java.lang.Class,%20com.tinkerpop.blueprints.Parameter...)
07:19	Bronsa	visof: next time though try to look up the updated doc, I'm happy to help but this wasn't a clojure issue at all
07:20	visof	Bronsa: okay, thank you very much, i'm appreciating
07:21	sveri	clgv: could be, I have gone through it twice and a post on SO says that quartz does not support one time events anymore so easily as it did with 1.x so I guess thats the reason it's not available
07:22	llasram	sveri: Do you want to schedule the event to run at some arbitrary point in the future, or right away?
07:23	visof	Bronsa: is should be something like this (.createIndex graph "name" Vertex (Parameter. "type" "UNIQUE")) ?
07:23	visof	when i did this i got ClassCastException Cannot cast com.tinkerpop.blueprints.Parameter to [Lcom.tinkerpop.blueprints.Parameter; java.lang.Class.cast (Class.java:3084)
07:24	llasram	sveri: The latter is just a `future`; the former can be a Java stdlib scheduled executor pool, for which there is a Clojure wrapper: https://github.com/overtone/at-at
07:24	visof	i have imported the Parameter using (import 'com.tinkerpop.blueprints.Parameter)
07:24	llasram	visof: You still need an array of parameters, not just a single parameter
07:25	llasram	The Java varargs syntax is a Java illusion over the JVM reality
07:25	Bronsa	visof: (into-array Parameter [(Parameter. ..) ..])
07:27	Bronsa	(into-array [(Parameter. ..) ..]) works too
07:51	sveri	llasram: thank you, that looks interesting, are the schedules as exact as the quartz library?
07:52	sveri	I found out that akka for instance looses some milliseconds over a long period of time
07:53	llasram	sveri: er, no idea
07:54	llasram	OOC, what are you trying to do at a higher level?
07:55	sveri	ok, thank you :-)
08:44	mpenet	,(let [x (Exception. "foo)] (with-out-str (.printStackTrace x)))
08:44	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string>
08:45	mpenet	,(let [x (Exception. "foo")] (with-out-str (.printStackTrace x)))
08:45	clojurebot	""
08:45	mpenet	out vs err, nevermind
08:48	ddellacosta	someone posted on common problems w/Om recently, does anyone recall that blog post? I think the author was from the U.K. or Europe, perhaps?
08:48	ddellacosta	I forget her name
08:48	annapawl`	that would be me :)
08:49	ddellacosta	annapawl`: oh, hey! I was looking for your post
08:49	ddellacosta	annapawl`: can you give me the link? I couldn't find it through my lame googling
08:49	annapawl`	ddellacosta: http://annapawlicka.com/common-mistakes-to-avoid-when-creating-an-om-component-part-1/
08:49	lvh	how do I work around >!, <! needing to be in a go block?
08:50	lvh	I want to use them from a go-block; I'm just defining helper fns
08:50	ddellacosta	annapawl`: awesome, thanks. Great stuff btw, very necessary. We need more Om info out there...
08:50	llasram	lvh: You don't. They need to be within the lexical scope of the go block for the code re-writing to work
08:51	llasram	lvh: You should be able to write helper macros using them, but you generally shouldn't need to even that
08:52	annapawl`	ddellacosta: thx :) these were just the most common mistakes of mine. will do a longer post once i have a bit more time
08:52	ddellacosta	annapawl`: would like to read it!
08:53	lvh	llasram: okay, so moral of the story don't define helper fns that do that
08:53	lvh	gotcha :p
09:13	TimMc	Wake up and smell the [Object object]!
09:13	SagiCZ1	wink: what would taht be
09:13	mdeboard	lol
09:13	mdeboard	@ TimMc
09:15	TimMc	(Huh, I got the capitalization wrong.)
09:15	mdeboard	It's Javascript
09:15	mdeboard	don't worry about it
09:15	TimMc	heh
09:15	mdeboard	it all evalutes to null anyway
09:16	mdeboard	i mean the cover of the "Secrets of the Javascript Ninja" book features a Samurai
09:16	wink	there's a book for that? I thought that must be an Ed Hardy-branded pink Kindle with only one PDF on it
09:17	mdeboard	http://www.manning.com/resig/ :P
09:17	mdeboard	secrets of the javascript samurai doesn't have the same ring
09:18	wink	mdeboard: http://puppetlabs.com/sites/default/files/1316713879_castle_reaction_0.gif
09:18	mdeboard	it's all kabuki theater
09:18	mdeboard	haha
09:47	llasram	mdeboard: but does it have the same 5 rings to it?
10:04	blunte	Hello all. I've got a function that makes a series of calls to other functions. It's a sequence of steps, with some steps being within (let) scopes of other steps. But not all steps are in inner scopes.
10:04	mdeboard	sounds aboutright
10:04	blunte	However, when the very first step has no results, I have no need to do the others. I'd like to return from the function.
10:05	mdeboard	if-let ?
10:05	blunte	I could stuff everything under an (if), but that would result in unnecessary indentation (and force me to make all successive steps be under the scope of the first)
10:05	mdeboard	,(doc if-let)
10:05	clojurebot	"([bindings then] [bindings then else & oldform]); bindings => binding-form test If test is true, evaluates then with binding-form bound to the value of test, if not, yields else"
10:05	blunte	Hmm I'll take a look.
10:06	TimMc	or when-let
10:09	Bronsa	i wish clojure had a cond-let too
10:13	pyrtsa	Or my silly little "ret". https://gist.github.com/pyrtsa/1af9fdd56267a3631b0c (Must invent a better name for it.)
10:14	blunte	I don't think if-let or when-let will work for my case. When the condition is met, I do want to do the following steps; but some of those steps don't need the scope. Plus I still end up with steps 2-5 being indented unnecessarily
10:14	blunte	really I just want to bail out of the function if the first step returns 0 results.
10:14	Bronsa	looks interesting pyrtsa, (or (ret [..] ..) (ret [..] ..)) would works fine as a cond-let
10:16	TimMc	blunte: lexical bindings that you no longer need will be dropped (made available for GC.)
10:17	pyrtsa	blunte: So my ret can be used like (ret [a (...) b (...) _ (...) c (...)] expr) where each (...) may optionally return (reduced foo).
10:18	Glenjamin	you could extract the later steps into a function
10:18	Glenjamin	(let [thing (func)] (if (zero? (count thing)) thing (expand-thing thing)))
10:22	blunte	all interesting ideas. I'm thinking/looking. Thanks :)
10:49	mdrogalis	I noticed in one of the transducer commits, a fair amount of atoms got added to core. Did that give anyone else some pause? https://github.com/clojure/clojure/commit/2a09172e0c3285ccdf79d1dc4d399d190678b670#diff-d951a5cd799ae841ffcc6b45598180dbR2674
10:51	puredanger	it's an interesting consequence of the transducer model - there is statefulness "inside the machine"
10:51	mdrogalis	puredanger: Right. I guess Rich was alright with that trade-off. Shrug
10:51	pyrtsa	Yeah, it doesn't show to the outside because the iteration only ever happens once for one result.
10:52	mdrogalis	Artistic license I guess.
10:52	pyrtsa	Modulo recomputations (with another atom instance) of course.
10:52	puredanger	yes - use sequence to get a lazy (cached) sequence
10:53	pyrtsa	mdrogalis: I think one reason is avoiding stack overflows. The driver of the iteration is a while loop in Java after all, not a nice recursion.
10:53	puredanger	(recursion not actually being nice w/o TCO in Java of course) :)
10:53	pyrtsa	Exactly.
10:54	mdrogalis	pyrtsa: Good point.
10:55	pyrtsa	I had to scratch my head a couple of times to understand what this block of code really does: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/2a09172e0c3285ccdf79d1dc4d399d190678b670/src/jvm/clojure/lang/LazyTransformer.java#L166-L173
10:55	alandipert_	maybe we can switch to Atomic{Boolean,Integer} if we need the perfs
10:56	pyrtsa	...mutation and jumping between several classes, inner classes, and source files making it a tad hard to follow.
10:56	puredanger	mdrogalis: this same pattern comes up in reducers with take/drop
10:57	mdrogalis	puredanger: Ah, okay. I never really grok'ed how reducers worked the first time.
10:58	mdrogalis	The day of wreckoning has come for me :P
11:01	tbaldridge	mdrogalis: there's a theory I have about mutable state. At first whenever I heard "mutable state" I used to think "ewww...bad code". More and more I think you have to look at where the mutable state is, and if it truely is a tradeoff.
11:02	mdrogalis	tbaldridge: That's true. I don't understand how transducers work well enough to make a fair comment on whether anything actually got traded away.
11:02	pyrtsa	Mutable state may only be problematic if it leaks to the outside somehow.
11:02	tbaldridge	mdrogalis: in this case, I don't see the bad part of using an atom, as backtracking isn't used, and the only concurrency is handled by the thing that creates the atom.
11:02	mdrogalis	Unfortunately there are a lot of ways to spring a leak.
11:03	tbaldridge	example?
11:03	Glenjamin	there's a lack of introspection capability in this case
11:03	mdrogalis	I don't mean with respect to this, tbaldridge. Just in general
11:03	tbaldridge	mdrogalis: ah right
11:04	sveri	When I was looking at scala I remember having seen a lot of functions using local mutable state inside the function and I remember martin Odersky saying that it's ok to do it like that if the state remains local inside the function
11:04	tbaldridge	(inc puredanger)
11:04	pyrtsa	E.g. Haskell uses local mutable state a lot.
11:04	lazybot	⇒ 6
11:04	mdrogalis	sveri: Kind of like how memoize works.
11:04	pyrtsa	Memoization leaks memory though. It can be very problematic on a long-running JVM.
11:05	sveri	pyrtsa: is that because of the memoization technique? or an implementation detail?
11:05	Glenjamin	it seems to me like this approach, as with pretty much all function composition, just leads to a lack of visibility
11:05	tbaldridge	pyrtsa: not true, you can have multiple ways to clear the cache
11:05	mdrogalis	pyrtsa: Right. My point being how it accrues local state, but outsiders dont see it
11:05	pyrtsa	sveri: It's because there's nothing cleaning up the memoised state.
11:06	Glenjamin	which you can either call information hiding, or a mystery
11:06	tbaldridge	Glenjamin: true, but when I need visibility I'll do what I do in every Clojure program. Define my transforms using data, then build the transducers before execution.
11:06	pyrtsa	tbaldridge: Ok, cool. But with the classic (def f (memoize (fn [...] ...))) you do have a leak.
11:07	tbaldridge	pyrtsa: yeah, core/memoize is kindof a simplistic approach
11:07	tbaldridge	pyrtsa: see https://github.com/clojure/core.cache for better examples
11:08	Bronsa	pyrtsa: there's core.memoize
11:08	tbaldridge	pyrtsa: core.cache has things like TTL, FIFO, soft refs, etc.
11:09	Bronsa	core.memoize has a memo-clear! + is backed by core.cache which has all the things tbaldridge said
11:09	pyrtsa	tbaldridge: That's useful. Can you share the memory pool of core.cache between multiple memoized functions?
11:09	pyrtsa	(Or take the above question for core.memoize.)
11:11	Bronsa	pyrtsa: the answer should be yes to both
11:15	puredanger	there are other sources of state inside the Clojure runtime (keyword cache, multi method impls, protocols, loaded-libs, etc). they all have perf/memory/usability tradeoffs. they mostly do what you want but have failure modes in the extremes. over time, those failure modes are being found and softened. none of that is unique to Clojure; all languages experience this.
11:16	pyrtsa	Agreed.
11:23	verma	searching and adding deps is such a pain, is there a lein command which adds the deps automatically, like node's npm install --save express?
11:23	puredanger	lein search helps you find deps
11:24	puredanger	I don't think there's anything to actually add deps automatically though
11:24	verma	hmm, ok, thanks puredanger
11:27	trptcolin	verma: i suspect that's a plugin that could be built though, now that we have https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/2a3fe249c04f466c9bf4c92e425dfc4597e5c64c/src/leiningen/change.clj
11:28	verma	trptcolin, oh sweet
11:28	verma	trptcolin, is there an existing pluing which uses that?
11:29	trptcolin	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/da00e756859c6d104d5de4786a578c2d9d3fa85f/src/leiningen/release.clj
11:30	trptcolin	not technically a plugin but a plugin would take a similar approach
11:30	verma	trptcolin, sure, taking a look
11:32	novaloop	i'm curious why (binding [x "hello"] (reify Object (toString [_] x))) doesn't "pick up" the binding when i call toString on it. does reify somehow escape the dynamic variable scope?
11:32	Bronsa	novaloop: for the same reason why (binding [x "hello"] (fn [] x)) won't
11:33	novaloop	oh i see, the call stack within the binding is completed when the fn is returned
11:34	Bronsa	right
11:34	novaloop	thank you!
11:34	Bronsa	you need to capture the value in the lexical scope if you need it
11:42	novaloop	is there a reason reify doesn't work from within a macrolet (from clojure.tools.macro)? (macrolet [] (reify Object (toString [_] "hello"))) ;; ClassCastException
11:42	Bronsa	novaloop: can you paste the whole stacktrace?
11:43	Bronsa	(in a pastebin)
11:43	Bronsa	novaloop: anyway, c.t.macro/macrolet does some lexical transformations that break a number of things for different reasons
11:44	Bronsa	IIRC clojure.core/case breaks inside a macrolet aswell
11:44	novaloop	http://pastebin.com/NAPZYbkT
11:46	novaloop	ok that would explain it, macrolet is like going through its body and doign the expansions, and it doesn't know how to do that will all possible forms?
11:46	Bronsa	yeah
11:47	Bronsa	macrolet should be implemented as a special form, being implemented as a macro has some shortcomings
11:50	schmee	I have a lazy-seq which calls a bunch of functions with print statements in them
11:50	schmee	but the REPL spits out all the prints when the call finished, instead of doing it continuously
11:50	schmee	is there any way to make it print while doing the processing?
11:51	novaloop	so without macrolet, is there a trick to call a macro from within a reify method that has access to some state, without passing that state into the macro? e.g. (let [state {}] (reify Object (method [_] (call-my-macro-here))))
11:52	lijnen	Hi all! I'm trying to include dependencies (quil with cljx) into cljs-in-cljs. Anybody experience with this?
11:52	novaloop	i guess i could generate the whole reify code from a macro
11:53	nbeloglazov	lijnen, could you elaborate?
11:55	lijnen	nbeloglazov: I'm looking for the quickest way to make Quil available within the cljs-in-cljs namespace so I can mess with Quil on runtime. :)
11:55	Bronsa	lijnen: is cljs-in-cljs still a thing? I though nobody was working on it anymore
11:57	lijnen	Bronsa: it's not really active no, but it's my only option.
11:58	lijnen	nbeloglazov: Bronsa: managed to get this far: http://cl.ly/image/1i0h2n1r2A1M. The next step is quil: http://cl.ly/image/0r1J3U1g3k3K
12:00	schmee	I'm confused regarding lazy-seq
12:00	schmee	why are these two versions of the same function not equivalent? https://gist.github.com/schmee/f17febda78242bc15dac
12:01	schmee	I'm sure it's something obvious I'm missing
12:01	mdrogalis	b
12:01	mdrogalis	Whoops, sorry.
12:03	pyrtsa	schmee: The first one is lazy on each iteration step, the latter only for the first one.
12:04	pyrtsa	schmee: Compare (lazy-seq (cons 1 (lazy-seq (cons 2 (lazy-seq (cons 3 nil)))))) with (lazy-seq (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil)))).
12:05	schmee	pyrtsa: hmm... is there any way to wrap the function and make a lazy-seq "from the outside"? Instead of wrapping the innards of the original function in lazy-seq
12:07	pyrtsa	Not really, I don't think so.
12:07	schmee	alright, thanks for clearing things up!
12:07	pyrtsa	(cons x expr) evaluates expr before returning, after all.
12:08	pyrtsa	(That is, it doesn't force a lazy sequence, of course, if expr evaluates into one.)
12:09	clgv	$seen lpetit
12:09	lazybot	lpetit was last seen quitting 15 weeks ago.
12:09	clgv	$seen laurent
12:09	lazybot	I have never seen laurent.
12:09	clgv	$seen laurentpetit
12:09	lazybot	laurentpetit was last seen quitting 24 weeks ago.
12:10	mhalverson	I'm getting some unexpected behavior regarding defrecord equality -- it's causing a unit test failure, is why I discovered it. Reproducible by spinning up a fresh nrepl and pasting in these four lines: https://gist.github.com/mhalverson/7ebdd79f2a16446ecde2 . Does anyone else see the same behavior?
12:12	Bronsa	eh, there should already be a ticket for that
12:13	mhalverson	bronsa: hm, I couldn't find one in the clojure bug tracker (searching for issues with defrecord in the title)...
12:18	Bronsa	mhalverson: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1457 might be the same issue, not sure
12:20	mhalverson	Bronsa: that's not the same issue I'm seeing (though of course it might have the same root cause)
12:20	Bronsa	mhalverson: I'm suggesting it hash the same root cause
12:20	Bronsa	has*
12:21	mhalverson	Bronsa: ah I see. I don't know enough about dynamic classloaders to have an intuition about this stuff...
12:23	mhalverson	Bronsa: I think the right action is to file a separate issue, since it's a separate symptom. Does that sound right?
12:24	Bronsa	mhalverson: sure, reference CLJ-1457 in the ticket description, if it turns out to be the same issue it'll get closed as a duplicate, no big deal
12:24	mdeboard	With cljs+om, how do you replace the subtree under say <div id="foo"> with something else?
12:24	mhalverson	Bronsa: sweet, thanks!
12:25	mdeboard	The code is here https://gist.github.com/mattdeboard/a7e20533ff59cee29004 ... the question is, if I want to replace <div id="app"> with different contents, how does that work?
12:30	bhenry	Hey guys what is the name of the function that will take a predicate and a seq and split the seq into two seqs where pred = false and pred = truthy?
12:30	mdeboard	dnolen_: Any pointers on the above? Like, if `om/root` targets <div id="app">, and part of my program generates a dom that represents one "view". Then, when the user clicks a button, I want to replace the contents of <div id="app"> entirely. How is that sort of thing handled with om?
12:30	mdeboard	bhenry: partition-by?
12:30	Bronsa	mhalverson: this is interesting http://sprunge.us/cDjj?clj
12:30	mdeboard	,(doc partition-by)
12:31	clojurebot	"([f] [f coll]); Applies f to each value in coll, splitting it each time f returns a new value. Returns a lazy seq of partitions. Returns a stateful transducer when no collection is provided."
12:31	bhenry	MediumDivision: partition by will give more than two back unless the seq is already divided so that the first part is all truthy and second part is all falsey
12:32	bhenry	shoot that was for mdeboard not MediumDivision sorry
12:32	mhalverson	Bronsa: indeed! I think I'll add that snippet to the issue description... something funny is afoot with record redefinition
12:32	mdeboard	,(doc sort-by)
12:32	clojurebot	"([keyfn coll] [keyfn comp coll]); Returns a sorted sequence of the items in coll, where the sort order is determined by comparing (keyfn item). If no comparator is supplied, uses compare. comparator must implement java.util.Comparator. If coll is a Java array, it will be modified. To avoid this, sort a copy of the array."
12:33	bhenry	it's a combination of remove and filter. it's like (list (filter pred seq) (remove pred seq))
12:33	rdsck	Hi!
12:33	rdsck	How can I convert a sequence of byte-arrays to an InputStream?
12:35	llasram	rdsck: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/io/ByteArrayInputStream.html ?
12:37	rdsck	llasram: Thank you! You mean I just do (.ByteArrayInputStream my_buf) and that is it?
12:37	rdsck	llasram: But I have not one buf, I have a sequnce of them
12:38	rdsck	llasram: and I need to convert (on-the-fly) the sequence to the stream
12:38	llasram	rdsck: Then also http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/io/SequenceInputStream.html
12:40	mhalverson	Bronsa: issue is here, if you care to chime in http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1495
12:41	rdsck	llasram: thank you! it looks really nice. You mean I just can do (SequenceInputSream. (for [i (range 10000)] (ByteArrayInputStream. (get_buf i))) ?
12:41	rdsck	llasram: Is that correct?
12:41	melipone	hello!
12:41	melipone	how can I get the number of cores on my machine with clojure?
12:42	rdsck	melipone: (.availableProcessors (Runtime/getRuntime))
12:42	llasram	rdsck: Close... Looks like SequenceInputStream tokes an Enumeration for some reason, so you'll need to adapt to an Enumeration somehow
12:42	llasram	common-collections has some stuff for that
12:42	melipone	rdsck: thanks!
12:43	llasram	s,tokes,takes, <- Freudian slip
12:43	technomancy	who was talking about people installing leiningen that don't know how the $PATH works the other day? https://twitter.com/mitdasein/status/497220920637796352
12:44	llasram	wat
12:44	Bronsa	mhalverson: I updated the description with a minimal case of my snippet
12:44	dnolen_	mdeboard: unmount / remount
12:45	dnolen_	mdeboard: or have component inside that app div that you replace
12:45	technomancy	llasram: my position is that you should probably learn how your OS works before learning clojure fwiw
12:45	mhalverson	Bronsa: thanks for the sundry little improvements -- looks better :)
12:46	mdeboard	dnolen_: Ok, I'll do some reading. Hearing you on cognicast over the weekend got me fired up to learn om.
12:46	dnolen_	mdeboard: this really a React question - whatever works for React works for Om
12:46	dnolen_	mdeboard: cool!
12:46	mdeboard	yes i'm kind of reading the react docs in parallel but it's hard to tell how to translate between react examples & om examples
12:46	llasram	technomancy: I recently heard someone describe how he "wanted to learn to write in Linux, because that's what Unix is implemented in." So there's levels here.
12:47	TimMc	D-:
12:47	technomancy	I ... wow.
12:47	dnolen_	mdeboard: it probably worth it to just understand React first
12:47	TimMc	I don't want any eunuchs on my machine!
12:47	dnolen_	Om is easy as pie if you get React
12:47	mdeboard	ok, I'll change direction then and do that, thanks
12:47	technomancy	I don't want to be an elitist douche, but if you don't understand the basics you're in for a really rough time.
12:48	mdeboard	technomancy: yeah, linux is really kind of an advanced language
12:48	TimMc	technomancy: Learning a whole stack at once is always rough -- it's not even clear where the layers separate.
12:48	llasram	Yeah... There is a tension between "some things really are basic" vs "we must protect the Priesthood of the Machine God!"
12:49	llasram	But some things really are basic
12:49	mdeboard	Deus est machina
12:49	TimMc	ex
12:49	TimMc	Oh! Pun.
12:49	mdeboard	god IS the machine
12:49	rdsck	llasram: thank you! so I need something like enumeartion-seq but inversed, right?
12:49	llasram	Latin pun :-)
12:49	technomancy	it's not that he shouldn't be learning clojure, it's just that at this level there are more important things to learn.
12:51	llasram	rdsck: Exactly. Which unfortunately for some reason I don't think exists in the Clojure or Java stdlib, but: https://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-collections/javadocs/api-3.2.1/index.html
12:52	llasram	But is simple, so you could just write one which could go straight from seq -> Enumeration
12:53	llasram	Man, SequenceInputStream still doesn't work on an Iterator/Iterable even in Java 8
12:53	llasram	Crazytown
12:54	rdsck	llasram: thank you very much! I don't know yet how could I write such convertor
12:54	llasram	OH!
12:54	llasram	rs0: Actually, I'm insane: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/Collections.html#enumeration(java.util.Collection)
12:54	llasram	Er, ^^ rdsck
12:55	llasram	,(enumeration-seq (java.util.Collections/enumeration (seq [1 2 3])))
12:55	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
12:55	rdsck	llasram: So you mean that that is that easy
12:56	llasram	Layers of indirection are sacrifices before the deus est machina
12:56	rdsck	llasram: I just need (java.util.Collections/enumeration my-sequence)
12:56	llasram	Exactly
12:56	rdsck	llasram: that is perfect!
12:56	rdsck	llasram: Thank you very much!! I will go to my repl. Thank you once again!!
12:57	llasram	np
13:12	PigDude	any cursive users here? alt+up/down arrow selection doesn't work for me and i don't know where it is in the menus to bind it
13:13	PigDude	(this is on a mac)
13:26	cfleming	PigDude: I'm the Cursive dev
13:26	cfleming	Which keymap do you have selected?
13:26	cfleming	It might be bound to CMD-W
13:26	PigDude	oh hi cfleming :)
13:26	cfleming	Hi :)
13:26	PigDude	indeed, it is!
13:27	cfleming	Ok - confusingly there are two OSX keymaps
13:27	cfleming	I'm using the one called OSX 10.5+ or something similar
13:27	PigDude	oh, I see
13:27	PigDude	I'm using the Mac OS X one
13:28	cfleming	If you use the other one, Cmd-W will get wired into your reptilian hindbrain, and then you'll try to use it in web form fields and you'll close your browser tab and lose your writing.
13:28	cfleming	Not that that ever happened hundreds of times to me, of course.
13:28	PigDude	haha
13:29	PigDude	thanks cfleming, i'm going to use the 10.5 map, i wasn't even aware of it
13:32	cfleming	No worries, it's a bit confusing for sure.
13:32	cfleming	All the Cursive doc assumes the 10.5 map, too
13:32	cfleming	That's your issue in the tracker, right?
13:34	irctc	hello
13:35	irctc	is it possible to create a Var through def that is the result of a function? Somehow this doesn't work for me
13:35	PigDude	cfleming: yea, sorry, i'll close it :)
13:35	irctc	(def eps (Math/ulp 1.0)) or (def eps Math/ulp 1.0) both trigger errors
13:36	cfleming	No worries, it's a fair issue :)
13:36	verma	,(def eps (Math/ulp 1.0))
13:36	clojurebot	#'sandbox/eps
13:36	PigDude	now somebody else will find it
13:36	PigDude	and know the solution
13:36	verma	,(Math/ulp 1.0)
13:36	clojurebot	2.220446049250313E-16
13:36	verma	irctc, seems to work
13:37	irctc	hmmm strange... must be gorilla repl then I guess
13:39	lpvb	do maps preserve order when seq'd?
13:42	lpvb	I guess not
13:42	klzzvn	any idea why core.match can't match on classes? https://gist.github.com/klzzvn/1c15abbbdb420d3f945c
13:42	irctc	man, two jehova's witnesses just rang the bell
13:43	irctc	first time this ever happened to me
13:43	lpvb	so should I use a vector of vectors when I want an ordered map
13:43	irctc	one of the two women physically recoiled when I told her that I am an atheist
13:44	technomancy	did you tell them you already beat final fantasy VII
13:44	p_l	irctc: :D
13:44	technomancy	oh wait that's jenova's witness never mind
13:44	hiredman	klzzvn: that is very weird behaviour, but it is also different from the usage shown in the readme
13:44	hiredman	klzzvn: the usage in the readme puts [] around the matches
13:45	klzzvn	hiredman: yeah, but it says it can work without [] for one column matches
13:45	klzzvn	hiredman: anyway, the behaviour is the same, even with []
13:45	hiredman	bummer
13:45	irctc	I can't remember the ending of FFVII, I know that I played it but now I wonder whether I've actually ever finished it back in the days
13:46	p_l	I need to finish it, recently grabbed (finally) a legal copy off Steam :)
13:46	irctc	Damn, this makes me wanna play a JRPG like Suikoden or Wild Arms
13:46	verma	lpvb, sorted-map?
13:46	p_l	back then, it used to crash on me because Windows NT
13:47	lpvb	verma: thanks forgot about that completely
13:47	verma	,(into (sorted-map) {:b 1 :a 2})
13:47	clojurebot	{:a 2, :b 1}
13:47	irctc	I think I owned it on PS1
13:47	lpvb	verma: actually I just wanted to preserve the order I put them in
13:48	technomancy	we used to get trolls coming into the #emacs channel to say "vi rules" and it was always fun to assume they were talking about final fantasy vi
13:48	lpvb	verma: array-map?
13:48	verma	lpvb, array-map may be then
13:48	technomancy	which was actually pretty great
13:48	verma	lpvb, yes :)
13:49	verma	,(seq (array-map :b 1 :c 2 :a 4))
13:49	clojurebot	([:b 1] [:c 2] [:a 4])
13:50	verma	does github show DMCA notices outside US as well? can anyone check? https://github.com/popcorn-official/popcorn-app
13:51	ToxicFrog	verma: shows up in Canada too
13:52	verma	ToxicFrog, thanks
13:54	klzzvn	verma: europe/croatia also
14:01	verma	klzzvn, thanks
14:01	TimMc	irctc: That JW must've been a n00b. I can only imagine the responses they get over the course of a month.
14:04	lpvb	should I (defn -main [& args] ... 0)? Does clojure do return codes?
14:06	puredanger	I think you have to (System/exit <num>) if you want to affect the JVM return code
14:08	hyPiRion	lpvb: (System/exit 0) if you want to explicity set it. It defaults to 0 if you haven't picked one and it exits cleanly though
14:12	TimMc	lpvb: Somewhat tangentially, I often have a -main fn that does not nothing but call a run fn and then System/exit (or shutdown-agents) to kill off any agents.
14:14	TimMc	(that way I can call the run fn from the REPL and not have to worry about killing the REPL too!)
14:16	jlongster	I'm playing around with the core.async `merge` method, but getting an error in the form of "no implementation of take! found for...". what am I doing wrong? https://gist.github.com/jlongster/585019272cde6d14d8e5
14:17	dnolen_	jlongster: you to :refer merge but if you do that you also need to exclude cljs.core/merge
14:17	dnolen_	s/you/you need
14:18	jlongster	dnolen_: aah. google searching showed confusion with cljs.core/merge so should have known
14:18	jlongster	thanks
14:19	dnolen_	jlongster: better than :refer-clojure :exclude is
14:19	dnolen_	(async/merge [c1 c2])
14:20	dnolen_	so it's clear what is going on
14:20	jlongster	dnolen_: agreed, will do that
14:39	verma	it sucks that I have to refer to clojure.match as an external dependency, is it just in incubation before it becomes part of the core and comes with clojure? its handy as hell and always a few steps away :(
14:41	technomancy	verma: I agree; it sucks
14:42	technomancy	on the other hand if it were part of clojure it'd be subject to the same release cycles, which would be annoying in different ways
14:42	amalloy	i just had a related thought: i can't think of any core.* libraries that have actually become part of clojure, except those that rich took part in himself. am i wrong?
14:43	technomancy	wasn't clojure 1.2 the last time something from contrib made it into actual clojure?
14:44	amalloy	i dunno. 1.2 was very early days for me
14:44	trptcolin	reflect was 1.3
14:44	jlongster	attempting to use async.core merge with pub/sub to enforce dependencies. how come the 3rd go block that read from c3 isn't run when c1 got a value? https://gist.github.com/jlongster/412d4616d3042288ea90
14:44	verma	well, I didn't think of the release cycle stuff so it makes a little more sense now
14:44	technomancy	verma: core.match was really unstable until a year or so ago iirc
14:46	verma	technomancy, oh, well most of these libraries are in betas, early betas so I thought may be they have to go through this incubation period before they are accepted, much like what boost does sort of for standard C++
14:47	technomancy	it's a drag though
14:47	technomancy	a day when you can't use pattern matching is like a day without music
14:47	verma	I guess an easy way to add these deps to my project.clj would be nice as well, right now lein search is the only thing I have to avoid looking for deps online and their versions, but lein search throws everything at me
14:48	amalloy	musicalDay MatchedPatterns = True; musicalDay _ = False
14:49	technomancy	verma: now that lein 2.4 has the change task, it should be a lot easier to write plugins that add deps for you
14:49	verma	I think it would be fun to work on a lein plugin for lein add deps --save like how node does
14:49	verma	technomancy, yeah, I was made aware of that earlier today
14:50	verma	I'll take a look at it, may be I could write something that gets accepted and I can finally earn a leiningen sticker :P
14:52	technomancy	sounds like a plan
14:53	PigDude	hm, clojure wraps bigints in its own class, so i can't call (.toByteArray 1203981209381238N)
14:53	PigDude	anyone know a way around that?
14:53	gfredericks	,(.toByteArray (big-integer 1203981209381238N))
14:53	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: big-integer in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:53	gfredericks	,(.toByteArray (biginteger 1203981209381238N))
14:53	clojurebot	#<byte[] [B@4f8ad5>
14:54	PigDude	oh, thanks gfredericks ! i didn't see (biginteger)
14:55	PigDude	,(String. (.toByteArray (biginteger 1203120938N)))
14:55	clojurebot	"G�+*"
14:55	PigDude	hm.. is that right?
14:55	gfredericks	what should it be?
14:55	PigDude	I wanted to encode in hex
14:55	PigDude	(I know that shouldn't do it)
14:55	gfredericks	not sure what your question is then
14:56	PigDude	i guess it is how to convert clojure bigint to hex
14:56	gfredericks	a hex representation of what?
14:56	amalloy	$google java bigint hex
14:56	lazybot	[Java convert a HEX String to a BigInt - Stack Overflow] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4316645/java-convert-a-hex-string-to-a-bigint
14:56	verma	why can't I find org.clojure/core.match on clojars?
14:56	jlongster	hm, still can't get this to work... does this not make sense, dnolen_? https://gist.github.com/jlongster/412d4616d3042288ea90
14:56	PigDude	(f 255N) => "ff"
14:56	PigDude	for instance
14:57	gfredericks	verma: contrib libraries aren't published to clojars
14:57	verma	gfredericks, is there anywhere else they are indexed?
14:57	PigDude	this does not work for bigintegers
14:57	gfredericks	PigDude: I don't think toByteArray would give you that
14:57	gfredericks	,(seq (.toByteArray (biginteger 255N)))
14:57	clojurebot	(0 -1)
14:57	amalloy	,(.toString (biginteger 255N) 16)
14:57	clojurebot	"ff"
14:58	PigDude	,(.toString (biginteger 251231231235N) 16)
14:58	clojurebot	"3a7e8c5d03"
14:58	verma	guess here, https://github.com/clojure
14:58	PigDude	,(.toString (biginteger 251231231212312313235N) 16)
14:58	clojurebot	"d9e88a1b51de7bd93"
14:58	amalloy	second result of the google search i suggested
14:58	cbp	verma: maven central
14:58	verma	oh
14:58	verma	nice
14:58	PigDude	hm on my machine those are showing out of range exceptions
14:58	PigDude	amalloy: that was what i was trying first but it fails here
14:58	gfredericks	,(.toString (biginteger -3N))
14:58	clojurebot	"-3"
14:58	gfredericks	,(.toString (biginteger -3N) 16)
14:58	clojurebot	"-3"
14:58	puredanger	verma: http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cg%3A%22org.clojure%22
14:58	PigDude	I get IllegalArgumentException Value out of range for int: 212312312312355 clojure.lang.RT.intCast (RT.java:1115)
14:59	verma	puredanger, yeah got it
14:59	verma	thanks
14:59	amalloy	did you, say, forget the N? or are you using a suuuuuuper old version of clojure? or is your machine haunted by a vengeful spirit?
14:59	gfredericks	aw man the vengeful ones are the worst
14:59	PigDude	amalloy: oh, you know what i was doing wrong? not wrapping in (biginteger)
15:00	puredanger	,Integer/MAX_VALUE
15:00	clojurebot	2147483647
15:00	gfredericks	Max Value would be a cool name for a person
15:01	PigDude	thanks, really helpful
15:02	gfredericks	what are better names for these things? https://github.com/gfredericks/referee/blob/master/src/com/gfredericks/referee.clj
15:04	amalloy	Either/Right/Left. you know you want it
15:04	gfredericks	nooooooo
15:05	gfredericks	also I want to know what technomancy would have done instead of protocol/records
15:05	llasram	gfredericks: I'd have done protocols/reify
15:06	gfredericks	eh?
15:06	gfredericks	for more opaque printings?
15:06	llasram	No need for a named type, especially a record. The instances are entirely defined by their implementations, which makes them perfect for `reify`
15:10	verma	it'd be nice if I could use something similar them for pattern matching, like haskell :P
15:11	verma	well, not hard to brew up your own using maps though
15:11	mthvedt	named types look a lot nicer in stack traces
15:12	mthvedt	or when printing
15:13	verma	deref'ing a Failure rethrows the exception? hmmm
15:14	gfredericks	similar to how futures behave
15:14	gfredericks	it doesn't have to be deref that does that, but something should do that
15:15	verma	oh, interesting
15:16	amalloy	gfredericks: delays do it too, as of like 1.6 i think
15:16	gfredericks	amalloy: what on earth did they do prior?
15:17	amalloy	horrible things. you may find the jira ticket i filed amusing
15:17	amalloy	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1175
15:18	gfredericks	HUH.
15:19	puredanger	…and you will know us by the trail of our delayed exceptions
15:21	verma	oooh ^:once, sounds risky and fun
15:22	SegFaultAX	Is there are story behind the indentation style in clojure.core? Or is it a simple/boring "Rich uses that style, so Clojure uses that style"?
15:22	amalloy	SegFaultAX: the latter
15:23	amalloy	except with a little bit of "nobody really cares now that clojure.lang isn't being changed much, so other styles creep in with patches so that it's neither pretty nor consistent"
15:25	gfredericks	every time I patch the java code it takes a lot of concentration to maintain whatever style is there
15:25	jlongster	dnolen_: nm, figured out my merge question
15:25	gfredericks	not to mention to avoid committing 200 trailing-whitespace changes
15:25	SegFaultAX	Hah
15:26	boxed	the java code is pretty sloppy yea.. first and only time I tried to look at it I found a big chunk of commented out code with no comment on why
15:26	amalloy	gfredericks: i have that problem in clojure.core too
15:27	boxed	(inc python)
15:27	lazybot	⇒ 2
15:27	SegFaultAX	boxed: I wouldn't necessarily call it sloppy.
15:27	boxed	:P
15:27	Glenjamin	there might be something helpful on the git blame for the comment
15:27	Glenjamin	or not
15:27	boxed	wanna bet? :P
15:30	amalloy	boxed: search for the comment //*/ and see if you can figure out why it's there, as an exercise
15:30	SegFaultAX	amalloy: "I've commented out, the reason why is left as an exercise for the reader"
15:31	gfredericks	clojurebot: clojure is left as an exercise for the reader
15:31	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
15:32	arrdem	the reader is also an exercise for the reader...
15:32	gfredericks	exercise is an exercise for the reader
15:32	gfredericks	in fact X is a Y for Z is true for all X,Y,Z
15:33	cbp	o man //*/
15:39	boxed	amalloy: the place I saw had no comments for miles and miles around
15:40	amalloy	okay...did you figure out what the //*/ is for?
15:41	Jaood	amalloy: to comment comments?
15:43	amalloy	Jaood: /// is a lexer trick which closes an open / comment-block if it's inside one, and does nothing if it's outside
15:43	amalloy	so it's like "i can't figure out if we're in commented-out code, but i want to stop commenting things out here"
15:44	gfredericks	lol
15:44	gfredericks	why on earth would you need to consciously do that
15:44	boxed	C comments aew so broken :/
15:45	amalloy	gfredericks: look at the giant mess of commented-out code in clojure.lang, and the answer will be resolved in your mind
15:45	gfredericks	I retract the question
15:47	Jaood	amalloy: any specific file in clojure.lang?
15:48	amalloy	Jaood: not really. Compiler, RT, Utils, are all probably pretty bad
15:48	Jaood	ok, compiler.java has it at the top :)
15:50	boxed	checked in commented out code at work triggers an immediate walk-over-to-desk-ask-for-wtf
15:55	dnolen_	all the transducers work in Clojure is now landed in ClojureScript https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript, have fun
16:07	technomancy	boxed: I could imagine that being used as a cry for help
16:07	technomancy	o O ( "the amount of commented out code is kinda like my emotions right now--hella crazy" )
16:07	technomancy	http://achewood.com/index.php?date=08212002
16:08	gfredericks	technomancy: you're suggesting clojure is rhickey's cry for help?
16:09	michaelr	hi
16:09	technomancy	no I mean in the context of a walk-over-to-desk-on-commented-code policy
16:09	amalloy	technomancy: new game: start each .clj file with #_#_#_#_ and a bunch of ns forms, let people guess what your dependencies are
16:10	michaelr	how would I easily update emacs-live to the latest?
16:11	michaelr	to get the latest cider
16:12	technomancy	michaelr: I'd recommend using the standard package manager for that
16:12	michaelr	technomancy: for cider or for emacs-live?
16:12	technomancy	michaelr: for everything in emacs, but in this case for cider
16:12	michaelr	hum hum..
16:12	technomancy	emacs-live has this bizarre NIH package-like system that isn't particularly well documneted
16:13	michaelr	heh
16:13	michaelr	technomancy: it was working well for me up until now.. I'll have to go deeper with emacs if I'd have to leave it now ;)
16:13	michaelr	when all I want currently is to try the new cider..
16:17	kschrader	michaelr: emacs-live is just a git repo, you can update it from within the .emacs.d directory, I think
16:18	michaelr	kschrader: I've tried git submodule update --recursive
16:18	michaelr	after trying git pull
16:18	michaelr	(it didn't work)
16:20	llasram	Finally made something `c.c.r/fold`able via ForkJoin, and it's kind of a mess. For some reason half of the c.c.r ForkJoin helpers are private
16:24	kschrader	hmmm
16:24	kschrader	if you haven't done any customization to Live you could just move the directory over and install it again
16:25	michaelr	yeah, i think i'll do that
16:25	michaelr	all my customizations are in .emacs-live.el
16:36	gfredericks	don't worry, I just used a Fn as a key in a hash-map
16:36	rweir	are there any easy-to-understand articles on reducers?
16:37	rweir	now transducers are here I feel like I'm two steps behind
16:37	lpvb	rweir: how about http://vimeo.com/45561411
16:38	rweir	videos :/
16:38	rweir	lpvb, I'll have a look, thank you
16:38	lpvb	it's a talk by rich though
16:38	rweir	ah, well, complaint retracted :)
16:39	puredanger	rweir: if you have comments on http://clojure.org/reducers and what more would help there, I'd be happy to get that feedback
16:39	hiredman	http://ce2144dc-f7c9-4f54-8fb6-7321a4c318db.s3.amazonaws.com/reducers.html is my favorite reducers write up (likely because I wrote it)
16:39	rweir	hiredman, with such an easy to remember url!
16:39	rweir	puredanger, thanks!
16:39	puredanger	hiredman: nice! I hadn't seen that! and +1 on that awesome url
16:40	hiredman	:)
16:40	puredanger	looks like a core.async version or something
16:40	rweir	all I'd read was the two posts rich made on them, and a couple of other random blog posts, which were...inscrubtable. I'll check those out, thanks.
16:40	puredanger	Rich's posts are great on understanding why and how to build but I found them light on "how to use" :) I was trying to plug that gap a little in the reducers page
16:41	rweir	yeah
16:41	rweir	they're like revelations lacking in commandments
16:41	hiredman	puredanger: rick gave some talk, I think it was language of the system at one of the conjs, were he asks a question to the audience about names for things, I yelled "uuids" from the back and he went "is that stu?"
16:41	puredanger	ha
16:42	rweir	possibly part of the problem is I translate "seq" to "iterable in python" and that gets the operation sense backwards
16:42	puredanger	I hear there is a healthy chunk on reducers in the Joy of Clojure 2nd ed but haven't seen it yet
16:42	puredanger	and I have a chunk on the Clojure book I'm working on for pragmatic
16:42	rweir	ah, I didn't even think to look in there
16:42	rweir	ah cool, what's the...target market for your book?
16:43	puredanger	the market are people that have read an intro Clojure book and learned the syntax but want to know how to actually build stuff with it
16:43	puredanger	tentatively called Clojure Applied
16:43	rweir	ah nice
16:43	puredanger	Ben Vandgrift is my co-author
16:43	amalloy	how about Clojurin' Action?
16:43	SagiCZ1	sorry to jump in so late.. but just my 5 cents.. i really did not enjoy Joy of Clojure
16:43	puredanger	that might be too similar to an existing book :)
16:44	amalloy	i feel like the clojure book space doesn't have enough confusingly-similar names
16:44	SagiCZ1	it felt like to hard for a beginner and too easy for an experienced..
16:44	puredanger	amalloy: yeah, was thinking we should call it Programming in Clojure :)
16:44	SagiCZ1	how about "Thinking in Clojure"
16:44	SagiCZ1	or.. "Clojure Effective"
16:44	rweir	SagiCZ1, I found it to be in a good spot between "I've been writing clojure code that does a thing but I can already tell it is ugly"
16:45	puredanger	we thought about Thinking but publisher was worried of similarities to other Thinking in books
16:45	SagiCZ1	rweir: and what would you recommend as one step before that? i went through the clojure-koans already...
16:45	puredanger	4clojure?
16:45	clojurebot	4clojure is the place to go for Clojure exercises
16:45	puredanger	or exercism.io
16:45	rweir	SagiCZ1, I read much of the o'reilly book, and tried 4clojure
16:45	SagiCZ1	what is 4clojure?
16:45	rweir	(also writing a lot of clojure code at work)
16:45	amalloy	$google 4clojure
16:45	lazybot	[4clojure – Welcome!] https://www.4clojure.com/
16:46	rweir	alas we're all beginners but skilled enough to tell :\|
16:46	SagiCZ1	at work i am being overwhelmed with Java EE.. so sad :(
16:46	SagiCZ1	amalloy: thanks for the link
16:46	puredanger	SagiCZ1: You mean @Sad
16:47	SagiCZ1	puredanger: sorry i dont get it.. why not "sad"? :)
16:47	puredanger	isn't everything annotations in JEE?
16:47	SagiCZ1	4clojure looks like a next step to koans.. i like it
16:47	SagiCZ1	puredanger: oh i get it now.. yes.. its horrible.. i spend 80% of my time writing boilerplate code
16:47	SagiCZ1	then i write something in clojure and i cant believe it can work with so few lines of code..
16:48	puredanger	SagiCZ1: it's literally 100% glue code somehow. like gluing glue together to other glue with glue.
16:48	puredanger	well, at least the last time I did it that's how it felt
16:48	SagiCZ1	puredanger: i dont even know where the actual logic executes anymore
16:48	puredanger	Oracle HQ
16:49	SagiCZ1	puredanger: spring sets up some contexts, then injects dependencies here and there.. then the ui connects to all the silly beans.. is there anyone who stays sane writing Java EE web apps?
16:53	michaelr	yeahh well
16:53	michaelr	it was a waste of time
16:53	michaelr	I didn't get to try the new cider
16:53	michaelr	emacs live would not cooperate
16:54	technomancy	(inc amalloy) ; belatedly but that was classic
16:54	lazybot	⇒ 153
16:55	michaelr	did I miss something :)
16:55	SagiCZ1	can i look at some solutions to 4clojure problems?
16:56	puredanger	I think you have to turn on the code golf mode
16:56	puredanger	and then follow people.
16:56	puredanger	although I followed chouser and his answers made me cry
16:57	SagiCZ1	i can turn that on when i register i guess?
16:57	puredanger	dunno, it's been a few years :)
16:57	rweir	pretty much all of them are googlable if you're really stuck
16:58	puredanger	I think here: http://www.4clojure.com/league
16:59	amalloy	you can follow people without having to opt-in to the league, as far as i can remember
16:59	puredanger	http://www.4clojure.com/users - follow people there
16:59	puredanger	amalloy: totally possible
16:59	amalloy	i can't imagine why i'd have made the two depend on each other
17:00	SagiCZ1	neither of you is there :D
17:00	puredanger	oh, did you work on it? I am stupid.
17:00	amalloy	puredanger: yes, more of it is mine than anyone else's, and it's running on my server :)
17:00	puredanger	amalloy: well thank you, it's great.
17:00	puredanger	(inc amalloy )
17:00	lazybot	⇒ 5
17:01	puredanger	wat
17:01	amalloy	you're apparently the first person to think my username ends with a space
17:01	amalloy	*fifth
17:01	puredanger	ah :)
17:01	puredanger	(inc amalloy)
17:01	lazybot	⇒ 154
17:01	SagiCZ1	wait what..
17:01	puredanger	better. my client added that
17:01	SagiCZ1	symbol can end with a space?
17:02	puredanger	,(symbol "sure why not ! ")
17:02	clojurebot	sure why not !
17:02	amalloy	SagiCZ1: the inc/dec system isn't real clojure. it's a hacky parser
17:02	amalloy	although it is true that you can construct symbols that the reader couldn't have read
17:02	SagiCZ1	amalloy: ofc.. im blind
17:02	technomancy	should have gotten a gsoc project to upgrade lazybot's inc/dec to use the reader
17:02	technomancy	stretch goal: juxt support
17:04	SagiCZ1	amalloy: can i control the "Run" button with keyboard shorcut?
17:04	amalloy	tab+RET probably
17:05	amalloy	probably doesn't work if you leave the javascript editor mode on; i turn that junk off
17:05	SagiCZ1	just makes tab in the editor :) .. k dont worry about it
17:07	SagiCZ1	amalloy: anyway.. very nice website :)
17:08	amalloy	you're welcome, SagiCZ1. i do love teaching
17:09	dnolen_	ClojureScript 0.0-2301 going out for those of you that want to try reducers from ClojureScript
17:09	dnolen_	the work involved porting a bit of Java so likely some edge cases, error reports welcome
17:12	tuft	sweet =)
17:12	mdeboard	yeah, wow
17:13	jjwatt	dnolen_: woa. neat. do they use webworkers?
17:13	mdeboard	dnolen_: working through a small react project.. you were right, om makes much more sense now.
17:13	dnolen_	s/reducers/transducers
17:14	dnolen_	jweiss: er I meant transducers and no
17:14	dnolen_	mdeboard: glad to hear it
17:14	mdrogalis	dnolen_: That was fast :)
17:15	dnolen_	mdrogalis: well porting the Clojure was easy copy and past
17:15	tuft	i'm thinking my first clojurescript project could be a window manager for os x using https://github.com/pd/zephyros
17:15	dnolen_	the Java bits were a bit fiddly as usual
17:15	mdrogalis	dnolen_: Yeah. Still, good job. Appreciated.
17:16	dnolen_	mdrogalis: it'll be even cooler when we get cljs.core.async sync'ed up
17:18	jjwatt	awesome. I hadn't seen rich's newer blog post about transducers (http://blog.cognitect.com/blog/2014/8/6/transducers-are-coming)
17:20	mdrogalis	dnolen_: Yup. I think that'll be a nice show of power.
17:32	SagiCZ1	,(take 2 (repeatedly rest '(:a :b :c :d :e)))
17:32	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.core$rest cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
17:33	SagiCZ1	,(repeatedly 3 rest '(:a :b :c :d :e))
17:33	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: core/repeatedly>
17:34	TEttinger	,(repeatedly 3 #(rest '(:a :b :c :d :e)))
17:34	clojurebot	((:b :c :d :e) (:b :c :d :e) (:b :c :d :e))
17:34	hiredman	,(doc iterate)
17:34	clojurebot	"([f x]); Returns a lazy sequence of x, (f x), (f (f x)) etc. f must be free of side-effects"
17:34	TEttinger	,(take 3 (iterate rest '(:a :b :c :d :e)))
17:34	clojurebot	((:a :b :c :d :e) (:b :c :d :e) (:c :d :e))
17:34	SagiCZ1	i think i want reduce maybe
17:34	TEttinger	hiredman beat me to it :)
17:34	SagiCZ1	reduce 3 times
17:35	TEttinger	what are you trying to do?
17:35	hiredman	,(doc reductions)
17:35	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f init coll]); Returns a lazy seq of the intermediate values of the reduction (as per reduce) of coll by f, starting with init."
17:35	SagiCZ1	nth
17:35	SagiCZ1	withouth nth
17:35	SagiCZ1	dont tell me the solution though
17:35	amalloy	ah, for 4clojure
17:35	TEttinger	ah, yeah
17:35	TEttinger	there's lots of ways to do that
17:36	SagiCZ1	i am only looking for the pretty solutions
17:36	TEttinger	my favorite is #(`[~@%] (`[~@%&] (+)))
17:36	TEttinger	which is not a pretty solution
17:36	SagiCZ1	holy crap
17:36	TEttinger	it's a swearjure example
17:37	SagiCZ1	it actually works
17:37	TEttinger	,(#(`[~@%] (`[~@%&] (+))) [:! :? :*] (+))
17:37	clojurebot	:!
17:37	TEttinger	,(#(`[~@%] (`[~@%&] (+))) [:! :? :] ())
17:37	clojurebot	:?
17:37	SagiCZ1	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
17:38	TEttinger	it won't make sense to explain it without reading hyPiRion's article
17:38	TEttinger	http://www.hypirion.com/musings/swearjure this won't make sense either probably
17:38	TEttinger	swearjure is a fun toy
17:39	SagiCZ1	look TEttinger, i am having some trouble implementing nth here.. i dont think it would be good for my mental health to read that article ;)
17:39	TEttinger	heh, I can explain how that example works now
17:39	TEttinger	it's creating a vector from the first arg
17:40	TEttinger	and it's using the second arg as an argument to it
17:40	TEttinger	,([0 1 2 3] 0)
17:40	clojurebot	0
17:40	TEttinger	,([0 1 2 3] 1)
17:40	clojurebot	1
17:40	TEttinger	now if you can reproduce that behavior in a fn, you're done
17:41	TEttinger	remember, a lot more things in clojure can be used as fns that you would expect
17:41	SagiCZ1	#((vec %1) %2)
17:41	amalloy	man, that solution was really hurting my head until i finally remembered that ##(#(do % %&)) '(1 2 3)) returns (2 3) and not (1 2 3)
17:41	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: sandbox5671$eval11415$fn
17:41	amalloy	well, whatever. you get what i meant
17:42	SagiCZ1	,(#((vec %1) %2) (range 10) 5)
17:42	clojurebot	5
17:42	TEttinger	woo
17:42	SagiCZ1	is that correct?
17:42	amalloy	does 4clojure think so?
17:42	SagiCZ1	vec makes vector from list and "vector" makes vector from its arguments right?
17:43	TEttinger	that's a lot cleaner than when I was trying to solve the same problem, and it should be. downside is it doesn't work for infinite seqs
17:43	TEttinger	yes
17:43	SagiCZ1	amalloy: clojure4 says its ok
17:43	TEttinger	vec also works on most collections
17:44	SagiCZ1	,(vec {:a 0 :b 5 :c 4})
17:44	clojurebot	[[:c 4] [:b 5] [:a 0]]
17:44	SagiCZ1	,(vector {:a 0 :b 5 :c 4})
17:44	clojurebot	[{:c 4, :b 5, :a 0}]
17:45	SagiCZ1	how would i get [:a 0 :b 5 :c 4] ?
17:45	SagiCZ1	,((comp vec list) {:a 0 :b 5 :c 4})
17:45	clojurebot	[{:c 4, :b 5, :a 0}]
17:45	SagiCZ1	,((comp flatten vec) {:a 0 :b 5 :c 4})
17:45	clojurebot	(:c 4 :b 5 :a ...)
17:45	amalloy	flatten :(((((((
17:46	Bronsa	, (vec (mapcat identity {:a 0 :b 5 :c 4}))
17:46	clojurebot	[:c 4 :b 5 :a ...]
17:46	amalloy	you want ##(apply concat{:a 0 :b 5 :c 4})
17:46	lazybot	⇒ (:a 0 :c 4 :b 5)
17:46	SagiCZ1	,(doc concat)
17:46	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x y] [x y & zs]); Returns a lazy seq representing the concatenation of the elements in the supplied colls."
17:46	amalloy	mapcat seq or mapcat identity also works, but it just looks awkward to me
17:46	SagiCZ1	amalloy: i dont get it
17:47	SagiCZ1	amalloy: unless..
17:47	SagiCZ1	amalloy: unless "apply" applies foo to both keys and values in a map
17:48	SagiCZ1	i mean.. apply takes the elements of coll and uses them as arguments to foo.. what does it do when the coll is a map?
17:48	metellus	SagiCZ1: it's because one "element" of a map is a key/value pair
17:49	metellus	so it's like ##(apply concast [[:a 0] [:b 5] [:c 4]])
17:49	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: concast in this context
17:49	TEttinger	4clojure is awesome
17:49	SagiCZ1	so it translates it to: ##(concat [:a 0] [:b 1] [:c 2])
17:49	lazybot	⇒ (:a 0 :b 1 :c 2)
17:49	metellus	so it's like ##(apply concat [[:a 0] [:b 5] [:c 4]])
17:49	lazybot	⇒ (:a 0 :b 5 :c 4)
17:49	Bronsa	amalloy: I'm so used to mapcat that I often forget how it's implemented. apply concat is definitely better there
17:49	metellus	yeah, SagiCZ1
17:50	SagiCZ1	metellus: thank you
17:51	SagiCZ1	TEttinger: I like the idea of walking me through all the basic functions and letting me implement them myself. There is just too much clojure functions prepared for us.
17:52	SagiCZ1	sorry for my English btw..
17:53	TEttinger	SagiCZ1, yep, after you get out of the early 4clojure problems they let you use everything to solve trickier things
17:54	SagiCZ1	TEttinger: yeah i would expect that
18:42	joshhead	is it now recommended to depend on lein-cljsbuild plugin from profiles.clj and not project.clj? (:plugins [[lein-cljsbuild "1.0.3"]])
18:47	joshhead	I misread something in the readme, I think I was just confused
19:05	justin_smith	joshhead: in case you haven't figured it out yet, you can define per-project plugins in project.clj
19:08	joshhead	justin_smith: Yep I've got it.
19:14	dnolen_	just cut ClojureScript 0.0-2307, same as 0.0-2301 just way faster for transducer and reducer based code
19:16	loon	anyone answer a question on how "seq map" gets the order it returns?
19:17	loon	(seq map) rather
19:17	loon	trying to figure out what order (keys map) returns
19:18	metellus	the order isn't guaranteed
19:18	amalloy	loon: arbitrary
19:19	loon	amalloy: hmm, ok
19:19	loon	amalloy: thanks
19:19	loon	metellus: thanks
19:22	cbp`	!die
19:23	mdeboard	finally
19:31	scape_	lol
19:52	mdeboard	Is there a consensus wrt clojurescript and routing vs. explicit event-handling?
19:52	mdeboard	I'm doing event handling in reactjs to handle page loading and what have you... but I guess they fulfill different needs
19:52	Glenjamin	mdeboard: i tend to trigger an event, that updates the url
19:53	Glenjamin	and also use that URL to drive my page state
19:53	Glenjamin	the URL is just another prop that your top-level component uses to decide what to do
19:53	mdeboard	I tried using react-router library but it seems like it pretty fundamentally changes how react works
19:54	mdeboard	or, maybe, it changes how you're supposed to write the funcs
19:54	Glenjamin	i have a router that gives me a component class reference when given the current URL
19:56	mdeboard	Yeah I was using secretary in cljs/om, seems to work pretty good
19:56	mdeboard	but react-router is like an indirection layer, it's kind of weird.
19:57	Glenjamin	react-router is just a way to wrap up that url-to-page-component stuff, and give you a <Link> component to drive the url changes
19:58	mdeboard	Yeah, I guess I'm just not getting it
20:00	mdeboard	seems like a good and proper abstraction though.
20:15	joshhead	I'm trying to use the new pipeline function in core/async 0.1.319.0-6b1aca-alpha but I'm getting a "Cannot read property 'call' of undefined" error. Might just be me, has anyone else had an issue trying transducer support in new cljs?
20:16	joshhead	possibly the transducer stuff is not in core.async cljs yet?
20:17	dnolen_	joshhead: no there yet
20:17	dnolen_	er, not there yet
20:17	joshhead	ah okay, thanks dnolen_
20:18	dnolen_	joshhead: might give it a go tomorrow if I have time if someone else doesn't get to it first
20:18	joshhead	I'll check for it again soon :)
20:23	mdeboard	elixir has really cool pipeline func
20:24	mdeboard	apropos of nothing
20:49	verma	technomancy, lein change :dependencies identity doesn't seem to restore quotes around version numbers
21:05	mdeboard	Glenjamin: What did you mean by 18:52 <Glenjamin> and also use that URL to drive my page state
21:05	mdeboard	were you talking react or om
21:05	mdeboard	if the former I'll ask in #react
21:34	tuft_	is there a way to get test.check to include some additional values in failure output?
21:34	tuft_	hmm, wonder if it would do a regular let binding inside my for-all stuff
21:35	tuft_	nope =)
21:35	tuft_	that could be handy
21:41	xeqi	tuft_: you could use (gen/return ...) as a generator in the forall
22:48	akhudek	hmm, lein is suddenly freezing indefinitely when creating an uberjar
22:49	brehaut	thats often an indication that you have some code running in a top level that shouldnt be
22:49	brehaut	(ie, something beyond an ns form or a def)
22:50	akhudek	yeah, though I’ve checked for this and havent’ found it yet :-/
22:50	akhudek	will look again
22:50	brehaut	could even be a def (rather than defn) if it, eg, creates a blocking service or something
22:51	akhudek	probably only a def right?
22:52	brehaut	i mean something like (def webserver (ring/run-jetty …))
23:07	akhudek	hmm, it’s lein-environ
23:10	akhudek	or maybe not
23:15	maxnomoon	Hello, guys. Can anyone help with some code review on a simple game logic?
23:16	maxnomoon	I tried exercims.io, but they seem to be focused on simple exercises and there aren't many folks there.
23:16	arrdem	throw up a refheap and someone may criticize
23:16	arrdem	~ask
23:16	allenj12_	hey, what would be the most efficient way for creating a quantize function.. so example would be (quantize 55 [40 50 57 60]) would be 57
23:17	allenj12_	i thought about just looping an incremented number and subtracting and adding till i find a matching number.. but it seems messy
23:18	maxnomoon	I'm generating a simple tribe. At first I was conj'ing two arrays of men and women, later I decided that would be more 'functional' to generate [:male :female :male] sequence and map over it with some 'generate-human' function.
23:18	maxnomoon	However that makes diffucult generating different gender based on some ratio.
23:18	allenj12_	maxnomoon: you should refheap your code and comment your question
23:19	danielcompton	What's the name of the concept that goes- reduce: sequence -> value, map: sequence -> sequence and _ : sequence to larger sequence? It's like fanout or mapcat but I thought there was a proper name for it.'
23:20	arrdem	danielcompton: mapcat's the common one. (reduce concat (map f seq)) is equivalent tho..
23:21	danielcompton	arrdem: what do other communities call it? I'm trying to name a function that takes a value and returns a sequence
23:22	maxnomoon	https://www.refheap.com/89033 I need some help with general tips on how to approach that kind of a problem.
23:28	TEttinger	danielcompton: disperse, spread, enlarge (contrasted with reduce)
23:42	justin_smith	danielcompton: from value to sequence could be generate or iterate
23:43	acagle1	exit
23:43	amalloy	danielcompton: there are a lot of functions that return a sequence from a value. the most general one is called unfold, in haskell (where they call reduce fold)
23:44	amalloy	arrdem: never write (reduce concat ...) - you want apply concat instead
23:44	danielcompton	I think unfold is the generic term
23:45	danielcompton	The opposite of fold (reduce)
23:55	akhudek	wow, importing [javax.imageio ImageIO] is what causes uberjar to fail to terminate
23:59	akhudek	hm, or maybe it’s just the number of imports