#clojure – 2014-07-25

2014-07-25

01:20	ruzu	ahoy mateys
01:21	justinholguin	Ahoy, ruzu
02:02	x1337807x	Easy one: I just setup my first ever clojure app with lein and I want to test my hello_world function - Is there a way to test that something is written to stdout? Can I expect that println is called with a specific argument?
02:05	x1337807x	Got it - with-out-str
02:35	munichlinux	clojure noob here. I was trying to write a fn to compute sum of integers from 1 to n. https://gist.github.com/anonymous/4930ef53d70379726ee8, I wasn't accumulating the sum in a local so i expected the return value to the value x, it wasn't the case. I am trying to figure out why, any pointers?
02:41	ambrosebs	,(apply + (range 1 6))
02:41	clojurebot	15
02:41	ambrosebs	looks correct to me?
02:51	gws	munichlinux: are you comfortable with recursion in general?
02:54	munichlinux	gws: yes
02:55	munichlinux	gws: why did you ask that?
02:58	gws	what you have is a pretty straightforward recursive function, and "15" is what i'd expect from it as well
03:01	munichlinux	gws: sure, (+ x (sigma (- x 1)) => 15 but how did x became 15.
03:01	ambrosebs	how do I use ASM to modify a method on a deftype? It seems like you'd usually look for a .class file on the classpath, but I don't think a deftype has one?
03:03	munichlinux	i did not return (+ x (sigma (- x 1)) but x
03:04	gws	munichlinux: yes, as the base case for recursion - i.e. only when (pos? x) fails, so when x first becomes 0 in this case
03:04	gws	,(pos? 1)
03:04	clojurebot	true
03:04	gws	,(pos? 0)
03:04	clojurebot	false
03:06	gws	but the first 5 times you are indeed returning (+ x (sigma (- x 1))
03:09	gws	plus an extra right paren because i can't count
03:11	munichlinux	gws: got it, I was under the impression that when x became 0 the else part would get returned (which is x)
03:11	gws	and you're absolutely correct
03:11	gws	it does do that
03:12	gws	at that point, the stack you built up doing those recursive calls unwinds, and collapses into 15
03:13	munichlinux	gws: got it
03:15	gws	,(+ 5 (+ 4 (+ 3 (+ 2 (+ 1 0)))))
03:15	clojurebot	15
03:16	munichlinux	ya
03:17	swi	Greetings :)
03:23	alainpicard	hello all! I have a Q about when clojure decides to eval a lazy sequence
03:24	alainpicard	in particular, if I'm sending an HTTP response, like (response {:foo (compute-this)}) ...
03:24	alainpicard	wouldn't that force evaluation of result of COMPUTE-THIS automatically?
03:24	alainpicard	'cause it doesn't seem to, and I find that... surprising.
03:32	gws	if (response) just returns a ring response map, i wouldn't necessarily expect (compute-this) to be forced at that point, just as you wouldn't expect it to be forced if you simply had {:bar {:foo (compute-this)}}
03:36	alainpicard	but, eventually, ring wants to send out the string on the socket, no?
03:36	alainpicard	won't that force it?
03:39	gws	if whatever you've got there is actually part of the HTTP response and ring doesn't throw that key away, then i would think so too
03:41	alainpicard	okay. I must be doing something stupid somewhere else then. thanks for the sanity check!
03:42	Glenjamin	unless i'm missing something, evaluation is inside-out
03:43	Glenjamin	so (compute-this) should be evalled right away
03:43	Glenjamin	oh, sorry lazy sequence
03:43	Glenjamin	missed that bit :)
03:56	Glenjamin	alainpicard: depending on what middleware you have, it might not attempt to realise the sequence
03:56	Glenjamin	,(str {:a (repeat 1 5)}
03:56	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
03:56	Glenjamin	,(str {:a (repeat 1 5)})
03:56	clojurebot	"{:a (5)}"
03:56	Glenjamin	,(.toString {:a (repeat 1 5)})
03:56	clojurebot	"{:a (5)}"
04:26	vdmit11_	Hi folks. What protocol I need to implement to provide a custom ".ToString()" (or something like this) for my custom type?
04:28	ambrosebs	vdmit11_: (deftype A [] Object (toString [this] "mystring"))
04:30	vdmit11_	ambrosebs, thanks, sorry for the stupid question
04:31	ambrosebs	vdmit11_: no such thing, np
05:00	vdmit11_	why can't I override Object's toString method for records? I mean, this one works fine: (deftype A [] Object (toString [this] "mystring")), but this doesn't: (defrecord B [] Object (toString [this] "mystring")). Why?
05:01	ambrosebs	vdmit11_: defrecord does extra things implicitly.
05:01	ambrosebs	vdmit11_: I think it already extends toString
05:02	ambrosebs	defrecord is very single-purpose, if you want to do anything beyond it, use deftype
05:08	vdmit11_	But defrecord provides a handy HashMap interface out of the box, I would like to use it. For me it looks easier to override somehow the toString method than implement those HashMap methods.
05:08	gws	,(do (defrecord B [] Object (toString [this] "mystring")) (str (->B)))
05:08	clojurebot	"mystring"
05:09	ambrosebs	I stand corrected
05:09	ambrosebs	IIRC there are some thing you can't do with a defrecord, apparently toString isn't one of them
05:11	ambrosebs	,(ancestors (defrecord B []))
05:11	clojurebot	#{clojure.lang.IRecord clojure.lang.IPersistentMap clojure.lang.IPersistentCollection clojure.lang.IKeywordLookup clojure.lang.ILookup ...}
05:11	vdmit11_	,(do (defrecord B [] Object (toString [this] "mystring")) (->B))
05:11	clojurebot	#sandbox.B{}
05:11	vdmit11_	why the result is not "mystring"?
05:11	swi	How can i compose N function in one ? I mean somthing like foo . bar .zoo in haskell ?
05:12	gws	vdmit11_: all you did there was construct an instance of B
05:12	hyPiRion	swi: use comp: (comp foo bar zoo)
05:12	hyPiRion	,(println (->B))
05:12	clojurebot	#sandbox.B{}\n
05:12	vdmit11_	,(println (->A))
05:12	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ->A in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
05:13	vdmit11_	,(do (deftype A [] Object (toString [this] "mystring")) (->A))
05:13	clojurebot	#<A mystring>
05:13	swi	hyPiRion: thanks
05:14	vdmit11_	why in this case the repl called the toString method, but in case of defrecord it didn't?
05:15	clgv	vdmit11_: the repl uses the print-method
05:16	clgv	vdmit11_: which is defined for records but not for arbitrary types
05:17	clgv	,(defmethod print-method A [v ^java.io.Writer w] (.write w "#A"))
05:17	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
05:17	hyPiRion	clgv: that doesn't explain why my (println (->B)) didn't print out "mystring"
05:18	clgv	hyPiRion: I think it does. B is a record and is printed as tagged literal followed by a string representation of the map
05:19	vdmit11_	It seems the toString method is overriden correctly for both deftype and defrecord:
05:19	hyPiRion	clgv: right, I forgot println isn't Bystem.out.println
05:19	vdmit11_	,(do (defrecord J [] Object (toString [this] "mystring")) (.toString (J.)))
05:19	clojurebot	"mystring"
05:19	vdmit11_	So I think the trick is somewhere in print- methods
05:19	vdmit11_	definitely
05:19	hyPiRion	,(. System/out (println (->B)))
05:19	clojurebot	nil
05:20	clgv	hyPiRion: indeed, you can trace it back to clojure.core/pr-on which uses print-method if print-dup is false
05:20	clgv	,(.println System/out (->B))
05:20	clojurebot	nil
05:20	clgv	,(->B)
05:20	clojurebot	#sandbox.B{}
05:21	clgv	,(.toString (->B))
05:21	clojurebot	"mystring"
05:21	hyPiRion	clgv: that's a bug with clojurebot I guess
05:21	hyPiRion	,(.println System/out "foobar")
05:21	clojurebot	nil
05:21	clgv	ah right
05:22	hyPiRion	System/out is not out, and I guess clojurebot is just binding out
05:22	clgv	hyPiRion: probably due to rewiring input output for its repl^^
05:22	hyPiRion	yeah
05:22	clgv	yeah
05:23	hyPiRion	,(.println System/err "RELEASE ME :'(")
05:23	clojurebot	nil
05:23	clgv	vdmit11_: yeah, you'd need to implement print-method for your specific record type - but is that really desirable?
05:23	clgv	hyPiRion: probably showing up in some log ;)
05:23	hyPiRion	clgv: yeah, that's what I'm hoping for :p
05:26	clgv	hyPiRion: "Help me! I am a slave in a Chinese fortune cooky factory!" :P
05:26	clgv	*cookie
05:26	hyPiRion	hehe
05:27	vdmit11_	clgv, no, because print-method affects only the repl in my case, but I need a sort of serialization, I tested the toString incorrectly by printing the object, now I understand that and the problem is resolved
05:30	pyrtsa	,#'clojure.walk/macroexpand-all
05:30	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve var: clojure.walk/macroexpand-all in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
05:30	hyPiRion	,(require '[clojure.walk :refer [macroexpand-all]])
05:30	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: denied>
05:30	hyPiRion	whaaa
05:30	pyrtsa	:(
05:30	hyPiRion	,(use 'clojure.walk)
05:30	clojurebot	nil
05:30	hyPiRion	there you go
05:31	pyrtsa	Thanks.
05:31	pyrtsa	,(defmacro env [] (into {} (map #(vector (list 'quote %) %) (keys &env))))
05:31	clojurebot	#'sandbox/env
05:31	pyrtsa	,(env)
05:31	clojurebot	{}
05:31	pyrtsa	,(let [x 1, y (inc x)] (env))
05:31	clojurebot	{y 2, x 1}
05:31	clgv	hyPiRion: interesting inconsistent sandbox config
05:31	hyPiRion	hrm. Such weird inconsistent rules.
05:31	hyPiRion	yeah
05:31	pyrtsa	,(macroexpand-all '(let [x 1, y (inc x)] (env)))
05:31	clojurebot	(let* [x 1 y (inc x)] {})
05:31	pyrtsa	:(
05:32	clgv	yeah you'll get more differences when using destructuring in the let
05:32	pyrtsa	Working with macros can be painful. ^
05:32	hyPiRion	pyrtsa: oh wow, that's nasty
05:32	hyPiRion	Must've been painful to find
05:32	pyrtsa	None of the variants of macroexpand are able to resolve &env in that.
05:33	pyrtsa	At least of what I could find.
05:33	pyrtsa	hyPiRion: Nah, it wasn't buried that deep when I was playing with it. Fortunately.
05:34	hyPiRion	that's good, because that one sounds very painful to debug
05:34	pyrtsa	But: PROTIP, the above (env) macro could be very useful when dealing with preconditions and such: makes it easy to tell what the local state was when things went wrong.
05:36	pyrtsa	,(defmacro must [expr] `(if ~expr true (throw (AssertionError. (pr-str :expr '~expr :env (env))))))
05:36	clojurebot	#'sandbox/must
05:36	pyrtsa	,(let [xs [1 2 3]] (assert (must (every? odd? xs))))
05:36	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such var: sandbox/env, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
05:36	pyrtsa	,(defmacro env [] (into {} (map #(vector (list 'quote %) %) (keys &env))))
05:37	clojurebot	#'sandbox/env
05:37	pyrtsa	,(let [xs [1 2 3]] (assert (must (every? odd? xs))))
05:37	clojurebot	#<AssertionError java.lang.AssertionError: :expr (every? odd? xs) :env {xs [1 2 3]}>
05:38	pyrtsa	,((fn [xs] {:pre [(must (every? odd? xs))]} xs) [1 2 3])
05:38	clojurebot	#<AssertionError java.lang.AssertionError: :expr (every? odd? xs) :env {xs [1 2 3]}>
05:38	hyPiRion	pyrtsa: what are you doing, you're making clojure errors readable
05:38	pyrtsa	:D
05:38	pyrtsa	Indeed.
05:40	TEttinger	,(reduce #(Math/expt %1 %2) (range 2 10))
05:40	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method: expt, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
05:40	TEttinger	,(reduce #(Math/pow %1 %2) (range 2 10))
05:40	clojurebot	Infinity
05:40	TEttinger	wow
05:40	TEttinger	,(reduce #(Math/pow %1 %2) (range 2N 10N))
05:40	clojurebot	Infinity
05:43	TEttinger	,(reduce #(.scaleByPowerOfTen %1 %2) (range 2M 4M))
05:43	clojurebot	2E+3M
05:43	TEttinger	,(reduce #(.scaleByPowerOfTen %1 %2) (range 2M 10M))
05:43	clojurebot	2E+42M
05:44	TEttinger	,(reduce #(.scaleByPowerOfTen %1 %2) (range 2M 1000M))
05:44	clojurebot	2E+499497M
05:46	hyPiRion	,(reduce #(.pow % %2) (.toBigInteger 2N) (range 3 10))
05:46	clojurebot	7628045462646269549938976891875320382369142773966779250433383862468136427071492332052290036238273567369166292537839519107420501593575384831894619073527853412088564527569473310793304373165199270832509630979462174093467427044817508289080036667855823736716211224317100708646525267755964878000278158240303705956088198499788045494885732510171221517843527982835625514436506476212438271589497730043764762558...
05:54	cstamm	hi. Is it possible to add a build number to the version of jar created by lein uberjar? Like one generated by the CI-server at build time?
05:57	cstamm	sorry. googled it myself
06:00	xsyn	I'm trying to do a cons on two maps
06:00	xsyn	but when I do, the second map loses it's structure
06:00	xsyn	Is there a way that I can keep it
06:01	Bronsa	xsyn: what's your input and what's the desired output?
06:02	xsyn	(cons #clojurewerkz.neocons.rest.records.Node{:id 418, :location-uri http://localhost:7474/db/data/node/418, :data {:id 27737500949}} clojurewerkz.neocons.rest.records.Node{:id 418, :location-uri http://localhost:7474/db/data/node/418, :data {:id 27737500949}} )
06:02	xsyn	( irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#clojurewerkz.neocons.rest.records.Node%7B:id 418, :location-uri http://localhost:7474/db/data/node/418, :data {:id 27737500949}} clojurewerkz.neocons.rest.records.Node{:id 418, :location-uri http://localhost:7474/db/data/node/418, :data {:id 27737500949}})
06:02	Bronsa	xsyn: so you just want to put two maps in a list?
06:03	Bronsa	,(list {:a 1} {:b 2})
06:03	clojurebot	({:a 1} {:b 2})
06:03	xsyn	ugh, that easy?
06:03	xsyn	thanks :)
06:03	xsyn	let me test
06:04	xsyn	is perfect
06:05	xsyn	thank you
06:05	Bronsa	np
06:23	boxed	yogthos: getting midje-readme to run on clj-pdf was a bit troublesome.. partly because there was a power outage here last night :P
06:24	boxed	but I’m getting a weird “Wrong number of args (3) passed to: […]rot[…]” which I can’t figure out too… it works in the example.clj where it’s copied from...
06:29	xsyn	misplaced bracket?
06:30	swi	btw, clojure.string/upper-case is the same as (.upUpperCase) ?
06:31	swi	ooh, yep, just a wrap over :)
06:40	boxed	xsyn: I’ve copy-pasted from the working example several times :P
07:06	SagiCZ1	,(defn foo [[x]] x)
07:06	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
07:06	SagiCZ1	,(foo ["red" "meat" "juicy"])
07:06	clojurebot	"red"
07:06	SagiCZ1	i dont get it
07:08	__daniel__	SagiCZ1: you're destructuring the first element
07:08	__daniel__	,(foo ["meat" "juicy"])
07:08	clojurebot	"meat"
07:08	gauravagarwalr	its called destructuring..
07:08	SagiCZ1	why is it not affecting the other elements
07:08	SagiCZ1	,(defn foo [[x y]] (list x y))
07:08	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
07:08	SagiCZ1	,(foo ["red" "meat" "green" "grass"])
07:08	clojurebot	("red" "meat")
07:08	boxed	SagiCZ1: “[x] x” means “create a new variable x that is the first element of the old variable x, throw away the rest"
07:09	gauravagarwalr	its same as: (defn foo [[x _ _]] x)
07:09	gauravagarwalr	(defn foo [[x _ _]] x)
07:09	SagiCZ1	boxed: i dont understand what you said
07:09	gauravagarwalr	'(defn foo [[x _ _]] x)
07:09	boxed	hmm.. actually, another question might be: what would you expect?
07:09	SagiCZ1	gauravagarwalr: ok that makes sense
07:10	gauravagarwalr	,(defn foo [[x _ _]] x)
07:10	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
07:10	SagiCZ1	i would expect that i would be the vector "unwrapped"
07:11	__daniel__	,(defn foo [[& x]] x)
07:11	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
07:11	__daniel__	,(foo ["red" "meat" "juicy"])
07:11	clojurebot	("red" "meat" "juicy")
07:11	SagiCZ1	,(defn foo [not-in-vector [x y]] not-in-vector))
07:11	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
07:11	gauravagarwalr	I guess __daniel__ has posted what you were looking for!
07:11	SagiCZ1	,(foo "hello" [4 5 6])
07:11	clojurebot	"hello"
07:15	boxed	SagiCZ1: How can it “unwrap” a vector into a single variable?
07:16	boxed	again I have to ask: what do you expect? one variable is one variable, it can’t be three variables…
07:18	gauravagarwalr	,(defn foo [& x] x)
07:18	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
07:19	gauravagarwalr	,(foo "red" "meat" "juicy")
07:19	clojurebot	("red" "meat" "juicy")
07:19	gauravagarwalr	@boxed I think this is what he meant!
07:20	boxed	gauravagarwalr: I think it’s pretty bad to keep guessing what he means… it’s better to get a good understanding from him
07:20	gauravagarwalr	boxed: ok
07:20	boxed	gauravagarwalr: your example doesn’t seem reasonable becaue if that’s what he wanted then that’s what he already had in “x”… so why do a destructuring in the first place?
07:21	gauravagarwalr	@SagiCZ1 What is it that you originally required?
07:29	__daniel__	i'll take another guess that he was just playing with destructuring
07:29	__daniel__	with no particular aim
07:30	gauravagarwalr	:D
07:30	boxed	“i would expect that i would be the vector "unwrapped”” <- I think that suggests intent
07:30	boxed	or at least some expectation of outcome
07:31	__daniel__	in a way, it is unwrapping the vector, not just returning x
07:31	__daniel__	,(foo [1 2 3])
07:31	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: foo in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
07:31	__daniel__	is returning a seq
07:44	gauravagarwalr	too much to speculate on! ;)
07:53	SagiCZ1	sorry guys.. was fetching some lunch
07:53	SagiCZ1	yeah i was really just playing with destructuring..
07:53	SagiCZ1	i guess i am not sure what i really expected
07:54	SagiCZ1	just this way of choosing a first element of collection seems weird [[x]] ..
07:54	SagiCZ1	[x] followed by (first x) seems more readable to me
07:55	boxed	you mean “x (first x)”
07:55	boxed	yea you can do that too
07:55	boxed	,(let [x (first [1 2 3]) x)
07:55	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
07:55	boxed	,(let [x (first [1 2 3])] x)
07:55	clojurebot	1
07:56	SagiCZ1	boxed: yeah that would make more sense to me..
07:57	SagiCZ1	,(= (let [x (first [1 2 3])] x) (let [[x]] [1 2 3]))
07:57	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: let requires an even number of forms in binding vector in sandbox:, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
07:57	boxed	it’s a bit cumbersome when moving on to [x y] foo though
07:57	hyPiRion	you can say boxed helped you … unbox that value.
07:57	boxed	clojurebot ignores everything except the first form btw
07:57	hyPiRion	You can also do ->
07:57	SagiCZ1	hyPiRion: who would expect that :)
07:58	SagiCZ1	thanks very much.. am i getting repetetive? i really love the community, always someone here who is eager to help..
07:58	hyPiRion	,(= (let [x (-> [[1 2 3]] first first)] x) (let [[[x]] [[1 2 3]]] x))
07:58	clojurebot	true
07:58	boxed	hyPiRion: blech
08:00	SagiCZ1	,(def v [[1 2] [3 4] [5 6]])
08:00	clojurebot	#'sandbox/v
08:00	SagiCZ1	,(first (first v))
08:00	clojurebot	1
08:00	SagiCZ1	,(-> v first)
08:00	clojurebot	[1 2]
08:00	SagiCZ1	,(-> v first first)
08:00	clojurebot	1
08:01	SagiCZ1	(doc ->)
08:01	clojurebot	"([x & forms]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the second item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the second item in second form, etc."
08:01	boxed	the doc for that is not super helpful I think :P
08:01	SagiCZ1	boxed: i have found most of the docs very cryptic sadly :(
08:02	boxed	clojuredocs is normally superior
08:02	boxed	although a bit dated :(
08:02	SagiCZ1	boxed: but they just copy the same doc.. ?
08:02	SagiCZ1	boxed: u mean the examples?
08:03	boxed	yea, the examples
08:03	SagiCZ1	boxed: why is it dated? can we update it?
08:04	boxed	I guess the guy who updated it isn’t doing it and isn’t allowing anyone else in
08:04	SagiCZ1	boxed: i see
08:04	boxed	grimoire is an attempt at replacing it
08:04	SagiCZ1	btw is there a way to make this prettier? (first (first (filter f coll)))
08:05	hyPiRion	(ffirst (filter f coll))
08:05	SagiCZ1	ffirst.. seriously
08:05	SagiCZ1	(doc ffirst)
08:05	clojurebot	"([x]); Same as (first (first x))"
08:05	SagiCZ1	:D
08:05	augustl	there's also fffffffffffffffffffffirst and fffffffffffffffffffu
08:06	SagiCZ1	no way
08:06	boxed	hah
08:06	augustl	a reader macro that looked for symbols that started with fff* would have been neat :)
08:06	SagiCZ1	wait what does ([x]) this mean in the clojurebot response?
08:06	boxed	just doing “first” is pretty horrible for maintainability and readability
08:07	SagiCZ1	boxed: whats wrong with it?
08:07	hyPiRion	SagiCZ1: ([x]) is the list of argument lists.
08:07	hyPiRion	so it only accepts a single argument.
08:07	SagiCZ1	oh i see
08:07	boxed	SagiCZ1: why first? why not second, third, fourth? accessing stuff based on index with magic index numbers is not so nice imo
08:07	hyPiRion	(doc reduce)
08:08	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f val coll]); f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied, returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll contains no items, f must accept no arguments as well, and reduce returns the result of calling f with no arguments. If coll has only 1 item, it is returned and f is not called. If val is supplied, returns t
08:08	hyPiRion	So reduce can either be done with 2 or 3 arguments.
08:08	SagiCZ1	boxed: lets say i have some collection of pairs.. and once i select the pair i need the first one..
08:08	SagiCZ1	once i select A pair i want the first element of the pair
08:08	boxed	SagiCZ1: ok, but WHY do you have a collection of pairs? why not something better like a collection of maps or a records?
08:09	augustl	boxed: first/rest is a pretty common pattern though
08:09	augustl	car/cdr all the way
08:10	boxed	augustl: sure, when it’s a list of things, but see? SagiCZ1 is clearly talking about using tuples :P
08:10	SagiCZ1	boxed: i have a map of transistions, where the keys are "states to move to" and their values are "conditions that have to be fulffiled for the transition" .. like this:
08:10	SagiCZ1	{:water #(= % :melting)
08:10	SagiCZ1	:vapor #(= % :sublimation)}
08:11	augustl	is there an executor/thread pool combo that will allow multiple threads running, but only a single thread per "id"? So, when I want to execute, I pass in the ID, and only one thread may run at any given time for that ID
08:11	boxed	yea ok, so you’re just destructuring a map? then (for [[k v] map] …) is pretty good
08:12	SagiCZ1	boxed: yeah i need to rework it.. its ugly.. i just realized what im doing wrong
08:14	hyPiRion	augustl: Need more information: Should you block or try another work function if "id" is already in use?
08:14	boxed	or put in a queue?
08:18	augustl	hyPiRion: block
08:18	augustl	err, put in a queue :)
08:20	stuartsierra	augustl: Clojure agents will do that :)
08:20	SagiCZ1	boxed: can i break out of the "for" once i find what i need?
08:22	SagiCZ1	i am looking for a certain value in a map, and once i find it i need to return its key
08:23	boxed	that sounds a bit backwards :P
08:23	SagiCZ1	boxed: i know right..
08:23	SagiCZ1	boxed: i know the map is backwards.. it just feels more natural when inputing it for this case..
08:24	augustl	stuartsierra: ah, will look into that
08:24	SagiCZ1	boxed: maybe i should first fix the map and then work with it as normal
08:24	hyPiRion	SagiCZ1: you don't break out of a for. That's not how for works.
08:25	hyPiRion	It's not like Java's for loop. It's a for comprehension. Think of it as a way to use map/filter in a neat way.
08:27	SagiCZ1	hyPiRion: yeah i think i understood that although i keep forgetting its not like regular for.. doseq is closer to a regular for
08:27	hyPiRion	right
08:27	SagiCZ1	but doseq cant return anything.. just for sideeffects right?
08:28	hyPiRion	right
08:30	boxed	SagiCZ1: loop/recur will do it…
08:33	hyPiRion	if you want to get some key/value pair where you already know the value, do (first (for [[k v] :when (= v known-val)] [k v]))
08:34	hyPiRion	whoops, (first (for [[k v] m :when (= v known-val)] [k v])) I meant
08:35	clgv	hyPiRion: I'd advise the more performant reduce-kv
08:35	clgv	together with `reduced`
08:37	hyPiRion	clgv: I'd advise for another data model if that query is going to happen frequently
08:40	clgv	hyPiRion: well, that's true. but might be some compromise...
08:41	lvh	clgv: huh what's a reduced
08:41	lvh	I know about reduce-kv
08:41	clgv	,(doc reduced)
08:41	clojurebot	"([x]); Wraps x in a way such that a reduce will terminate with the value x"
08:42	lvh	whaaa
08:42	clgv	;)
08:42	Glenjamin	,(reduce (reduced 1))
08:42	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core/reduce>
08:42	lvh	clgv: I seriously have no idea what that is
08:42	lvh	clgv: the source code didn't help either
08:43	lvh	clgv: Would you mind typing a reduce(-kv) example that uses it?
08:43	Glenjamin	,(reduce list (reduced 1))
08:43	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Reduced>
08:43	lvh	also grimoire doesn't know about it
08:43	hyPiRion	,(reduce list (reduced 1) ())
08:43	clojurebot	#<Reduced@1c2df08: 1>
08:43	clgv	lvh: `reduce` will terminate if something wrapped in `reduced` is returned from the function no matter if the given collection was traversed completely
08:43	hyPiRion	uh
08:44	clgv	no must be returned from the function
08:44	Glenjamin	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15625341/reduce-a-lazy-sequence-like-a-loop-with-a-condition-in-clojure
08:44	clgv	,(reduce (fn [x y] (reduced x)) 1 (range))
08:44	clojurebot	1
08:45	Glenjamin	oh, that's neat
08:45	hyPiRion	clgv: sure, I was just confused about the fact that the init value isn't considered a value returned by f
08:45	Glenjamin	like an early return
08:45	Glenjamin	,(reduce list (reduced 1) '(1))
08:45	clojurebot	(#<Reduced@47fdc3: 1> 1)
08:45	Glenjamin	,(reduce second (reduced 1) '(1))
08:45	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core/second>
08:46	hyPiRion	clgv: the docs are ambiguous enough to not specify what should happen.
08:46	clgv	,(reduce (fn [x y] (cond-> y (and (even? y) (< 3 y)) reduced) (range))
08:46	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
08:46	Glenjamin	,(reduce #(apply second) (reduced 1) '(1))
08:46	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: sandbox/eval215/fn--216>
08:46	clgv	,(reduce (fn [x y] (cond-> y (and (even? y) (< 3 y)) reduced)) (range))
08:46	clojurebot	4
08:46	lvh	so, on the first call, you get (reduced 1)
08:46	clgv	hyPiRion: yeah, doc jira issue? ;)
08:47	hyPiRion	yeah, on it
08:47	lvh	you get ((fn [x y] (reduced x)) 1 0) == (reduced 1)
08:47	lvh	then you get... ((fn [x y] (reduced x)) (reduced 1) 1) ?
08:48	clgv	only the function return values are checked for `reduced` wrappers
08:48	bacon1989	I was wondering how I can fix problems involving dynamic, and unbound variables
08:48	clgv	bacon1989: bind them? :D
08:48	bacon1989	I have a function that I can't compile, and it isn't accessible until runtime
08:48	bacon1989	it says it's unbound
08:49	bacon1989	I tried @(delay (foo)), but I don't think I have the right idea
08:49	lvh	clgv: oh
08:50	lvh	clgv: so reduce and reduce-kv know about reduced, and if they find that, they go "welp I'm done" and return the wrapped value?
08:50	clgv	lvh: that's the idea ;)
08:50	lvh	I'll try to write out the reduce-kv to find a key given a value in a map later :)
08:50	Glenjamin	this seem reasonable? https://github.com/arrdem/grimoire/pull/56
08:51	clgv	bacon1989: sounds pretty weird. maybe you should describe your concrete application problem
08:52	clgv	Glenjamin: shouldnt such an example be executable? and I 'd definitely add a short description what the whole expression is supposed to calculate
08:52	Glenjamin	what do you mean by executable?
08:53	clgv	Glenjamin: well the code you posted there cannot be run in a repl
08:53	Glenjamin	oh, i see
08:53	bacon1989	clgv: it is weird, i'm using clojure-android
08:53	Glenjamin	heh, that's what i get for blindly copying stack overflow
08:53	bacon1989	the function is unbound for some reason
08:53	clgv	better make up your own example searching for an element with a specific property
08:53	bacon1989	I can't figure out 'why' it's not unbound, because it's clearly bound
08:53	bacon1989	*is unbound
08:54	clgv	Glenjamin: or take that one ##(reduce (fn [x y] (cond-> y (and (even? y) (< 3 y)) reduced)) (range))
08:54	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: cond-> in this context
08:54	Glenjamin	,(reduce (fn [a v] (if (> 5 v) a (conj a v))) #{} (range))
08:54	Glenjamin	oh
08:54	clgv	oops. lazybot is lame nowadays...
08:54	Glenjamin	forgot to reduced
08:54	clojurebot	eval service is offline
08:55	hyPiRion	bacon1989: try to sharp-quote it. May be that the delay captures the unbound value the var refers to
08:55	bacon1989	sharp quote?
08:56	bacon1989	`?
08:56	bacon1989	hmm yeah, I guess I could just deref that
08:57	bacon1989	you do mean like this, @`(foo)?
08:58	bacon1989	i can't dereference that
08:58	Glenjamin	,(reduce (fn [a v] (if (> 5 v) (reduced a) (conj a v))) #{} (range))
08:58	clojurebot	#{}
08:59	Glenjamin	have i done something dumb there?
08:59	hyPiRion	bacon1989: #' is sharp-quote
08:59	Glenjamin	,(reduce (fn [x y] (cond-> y (and (even? y) (< 3 y)) reduced)) (range))
08:59	clojurebot	4
08:59	hyPiRion	bacon1989: so (delay (#'foo)) should not fail if foo is a nullary function
09:01	clgv	bacon1989: build a minimal failing example of your code and post it as a gist
09:03	Glenjamin	here we go, updated: https://github.com/arrdem/grimoire/pull/56
09:04	bacon1989	clgv: it's still unbound, i'm using clojure-android, on an android product with lein-droid
09:04	bacon1989	maybe I should be asking about this in the official channel
09:10	bacon1989	looks like this though https://gist.github.com/benzap/8cf4526f413339624c92
09:10	clgv	Glenjamin: :D
09:10	clgv	Glenjamin: but I would add a comment what it does ^^
09:11	Glenjamin	you mean like walking through the algorithm it implements?
09:11	clgv	bacon1989: where does the exception originate from?
09:12	bacon1989	refresh, I left a comment with the stacktrace
09:12	clgv	Glenjamin: no just like -> the example extracts all numbers smaller than 5 until a number >= 5 is encountered - or something similar ;)
09:12	Glenjamin	right, seems sensible
09:13	bacon1989	clgv: if I use the repl, the code works fine, but compiling doesn't work
09:13	hyPiRion	clgv: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1474
09:13	bacon1989	i've had the same issue before regarding stubs, but I solved those by using delays
09:13	bacon1989	this time it's different, I can't figure out what's causing it to be unbound at compile-time
09:14	clgv	bacon1989: weird - does it also work in a fresh repl?
09:15	bacon1989	clgv: it works on a repl
09:16	clgv	bacon1989: also a restarted one?
09:16	bacon1989	idk about restarted, I just use the repl that's provided when the app starts up
09:18	clgv	bacon1989: I mean did you restart the repl and try?
09:18	bacon1989	yes
09:19	bacon1989	i'll try again just to make sure, but it was definitely working
09:20	bacon1989	which doesn't solve my issue, it's needs to be compiled into the application
09:20	clgv	well if it works in the repl after restart you definitely have to ask the clojure-android guys
09:21	bacon1989	yeah, I just tested it, it works
09:21	clgv	a minimal runnable project with the same error will be appreciated and speed up things I guess
09:22	bacon1989	do you have an android device?
09:22	bacon1989	i could probably throw together a simple project
09:22	clgv	I got no android dev env...
09:22	bacon1989	i'm going to post in the google group through
09:38	TimMc	arrdem: I see you've avoided clojuredocs' .. problem.
09:39	TimMc	arrdem: I'm curious why you decided to trim off leading and trailing underscores, though.
09:48	gauravagarwalr	clear
09:49	gauravagarwalr	(use '[clojure.java.shell :only [sh]])
09:49	gauravagarwalr	(sh "free")
09:49	gauravagarwalr	,(use '[clojure.java.shell :only [sh]])
09:49	gauravagarwalr	,(sh "free")
09:49	clojurebot	nil
09:49	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: denied>
09:50	clgv	gauravagarwalr: next try would have been "rm -rf /" ? :P
09:56	bacon1989	clojurebot has been locked down pretty well, there's an intersting article on all of the holes some guy found
09:56	bacon1989	they were able to patch it up pretty well
09:57	hyPiRion	$google xeqixeqi clojurebot
09:57	lazybot	[Breaking lazybot out of clojail - Nelson Morris] http://nelsonmorris.net/2012/09/06/breaking-lazybot-out-of-clojail.html
09:59	gauravagarwalr	:D
10:00	gauravagarwalr	It never hurts to try! :P
10:00	boxed	is there a way to make everything non-lazy? this debugging with prints that are interleaved and shit is killing me
10:02	gauravagarwalr	boxed: If you are trying to print stuff.. then as soon as you output it to console it starts to evaluate..
10:03	gauravagarwalr	Aren't you using lighttable? :P
10:04	boxed	https://www.refheap.com/88574
10:13	stuartsierra	boxed: It's much easier with a real logging framework, although non-trivial to set up.
10:18	andyf	Can anyone recommend a tool for creating class/interface inheritance diagrams for Clojure's Java implementation code, preferably one simple to set up, or there are documented instructions for setting it up you could send me a link for?
10:18	gtrak	boxed: tried the dbg macro? http://www.learningclojure.com/2010/09/clojure-macro-tutorial-part-i-getting.html
10:20	stuartsierra	andyf: https://github.com/stuartsierra/class-diagram
10:21	andyf	stuartsierra: Thanks! I'll give that a go.
10:36	lvh	clgv: ping, re: earlier where we talked about reduced, and map + val -> key, were you thinking something like:
10:36	lvh	(defn val->key [val map] (reduce-kv (fn [cur k v] (if (== v val) (reduced k) nil)) nil map))
10:37	lvh	seems kinda weird to me, since cur is always nil basically
10:38	clgv	lvh: yeah an impl via reduce-kv could look like that; better use `when?
10:38	clgv	`when`
10:40	clgv	lvh: if you have some kind of bijection there that is used often it is probably worth to main one map for each mapping direction
10:41	lvh	okay, so my understanding of reduced is now "fine here have your answer stop reducing"
10:41	lvh	makes sense
10:41	lvh	I thought it'd be some crazy functional hackery
10:41	clgv	hm no it is not ;)
10:55	lsdafjklsd	a
11:01	trptcolin	anybody got a foolproof demo proving that Atoms retry when the CAS fails? i know how it works [i’m pretty sure anywa], just having a rough time getting an actual demo showing it.
11:07	Bronsa	trptcolin: http://sprunge.us/EGKS?clj
11:12	trptcolin	Bronsa: thanks, i see my mistake
11:13	trptcolin	i was dumbly putting the sleep outside the swap fn
11:13	trptcolin	which isn’t going to work :)
11:38	hcumberdale	why is (cond-> a :x print) working >> {:x "abc} but not (cond-> a :x #(print %)) ?
11:38	hcumberdale	,(cond-> {:x "abc"} :x print)
11:38	clojurebot	{:x abc}
11:39	hcumberdale	,(cond-> {:x "abc"} :x #(print %))
11:39	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval52$G__51__53 sandbox$eval52$G__51__53@75b962>
11:39	clgv	hcumberdale: becauce cond-> is a macro manipulating the execution forms
11:40	hcumberdale	so I can't use # and fn there?
11:40	hcumberdale	how to access "abc" then?
11:40	clgv	hcumberdale: in that case #(print % a) is the resulting form that is executed if :x is truthy in a
11:40	arrdem	you can totally use #() in there, you just have to apply the fn represented with #() yourself.
11:40	BobSchack	seangrove are you looking for a fressian port to clojurescript?
11:40	joegallo	(#(print %))
11:41	clgv	hcumberdale: do you want (cond-> a :x (print %))?
11:41	seangrove	BobSchack: Specifically looking for an efficient way to send huge clj/cljs datastructures with tons and tons of structural sharing over the wire efficient
11:41	clgv	hcumberdale: or do you want to creat an anonymous function?
11:41	hcumberdale	(cond-> a :x (spit % somethinghere))
11:42	BobSchack	I've ported fressian to cljs if you are interested
11:42	seangrove	BobSchack: That's fantastic, I'm definitely interesting in checking it out
11:42	hcumberdale	where (:x a) is the filename
11:42	seangrove	I think I saw on hn that you have it 40% faster than edn?
11:42	BobSchack	https://github.com/spinningtopsofdoom/longshi
11:43	BobSchack	so far it uses typed arrays so you'll have that restriction
11:44	BobSchack	so far doing perf tests with large edn data it's about 40% faster
11:45	BobSchack	I'm still doing perf improvement and looking any tricks the did for transit
11:45	hcumberdale	clgv: (#(...)) works!
11:46	BobSchack	It's my first non toy clojure library so any feedback is welcome
11:47	clgv	hcumberdale: but then you could just use (cond-> a :x print)
11:48	hcumberdale	clgv yes for print. But I want to call (spit (:x a) graph).
11:48	seangrove	BobSchack: This si great, thank you. How does the domain-aware compression work? What kidn of compression ratio do you get?
11:48	hcumberdale	Basically I have that graph and I work on cli options for the output
11:49	clgv	hcumberdale: if the function is more complicate you probably should "defn" it anyway ;)
11:49	hcumberdale	using clojure.tools/cli I have a options map. I want to be able to create both graphml files for yed and yaml output
11:52	awwaiid	icfp contest today!
11:52	hcumberdale	I've choosen cond-> because of it's behavior not to short circuit
11:53	hcumberdale	Is there a better alternative to cond-> if I just want a not short circuit cond but not changing my forms?
11:53	BobSchack	seangrove to cache you can either use (write-object object cahce-flag) in the write handler or cache an individual object by calling (cache object)
11:54	BobSchack	Fressian caching is really awesome but very poorly documented :(
11:55	seangrove	BobSchack: Any chance of a few code examples in the readme or examples dir?
11:56	BobSchack	Yep working on this today with 20% time any use cases you'd like to see?
12:00	ppppaul	i can't find david nolens blog post about using core.async to make a typeahead
12:01	nullptr	ppppaul: http://swannodette.github.io/2013/08/17/comparative/ ?
12:02	seangrove	BobSchack: Not sure. Generaly usage - I'll play around with this tonight or this weekend if the examples are there
12:03	ppppaul	thanks nullptr
12:49	mpenet	huh, take! doesn't work on sliding buffers ?
12:50	mpenet	c.c.async map uses that internally and breaks stuff down the road I think
12:51	mpenet	c.c.async/map
12:51	mpenet	map< even, anyway...
12:52	vdmit11	hi folks, how can I define a constructor for a custom type?
12:53	vdmit11	I mean, can I define different arities for the automatically generated constructor?
12:53	bbloom	vdmit11: no, just use a function
12:54	mpenet	,(use 'clojure.core.async)
12:54	clojurebot	#<FileNotFoundException java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/core/async__init.class or clojure/core/async.clj on classpath: >
13:09	kwladyka	What is the most mature (the best) webframework using Clojure? I know in google is many articles about that but not actual any more.
13:29	bridgethillyer	kwladyka: take a look at Luminus, Pedestal, Om, and Hoplon
13:29	bridgethillyer	Which one you pick depends on your needs
13:29	bridgethillyer	In Clojure, it’s more a set of libraries than an entire framework
13:30	bridgethillyer	Although Pedestal could be considered a framework
13:30	boxed	and Reagent!
13:31	johnwalker	what is :scope "provided"?
13:31	johnwalker	https://github.com/swannodette/om-sync/blob/master/project.clj
13:31	hiredman	hoplon seems to come with its own build system, it maybe a framework :)
13:31	johnwalker	is it clojurescript only?
13:35	bridgethillyer	hiredman: more a worldview :)
13:36	llasram	johnwalker: It's a Maven thing which means that in production the actual implementation for dependency will be provided by e.g. some sort of framework
13:37	johnwalker	ahh, so one of the other dependencies in the project?
13:37	llasram	johnwalker: I'm not sure what the intent is there in that project.clj file though. The resulting pom.xml will have the deps marked as sscope=provided, but Leiningen expects "provided" dependencies to go in the "provided" profile
13:38	llasram	johnwalker: No, but I could be mistaken
13:38	llasram	Usually you use it to indicate actual dependencies of the project, but which dependencies shouldn't be added to e.g. an uberjar, because they'll be provided at runtime in some other fashion
13:39	llasram	I don't know what it means heer
13:39	llasram	here
13:39	johnwalker	ok, so it also works for clojure?
13:40	johnwalker	er, that should have been a statement
13:40	johnwalker	thanks llasram
13:40	johnwalker	(inc llasram)
13:40	lazybot	⇒ 29
13:40	llasram	np... I hope actually helpful :-)
13:41	johnwalker	definitely
13:42	technomancy	johnwalker: iiuc :provided only makes sense for a project that's distributed via uberjar but not run via `java -jar ...`
13:43	technomancy	I don't know anything about this project, but it seems a bit fishy
13:48	johnwalker	technomancy: llasram: the plot thickens
13:51	johnwalker	(inc technomancy)
13:51	lazybot	⇒ 126
13:59	kwladyka	bridgethillyer any good comperassion about that framework from about last 3-moths? :) I need create web app and need solutions like validation example http://laravel.com/docs/validation#available-validation-rules and relationships in DB like http://laravel.com/docs/eloquent#relationships, clever forms like http://laravel.com/docs/html#form-model-binding
14:00	kwladyka	Any framework or framework + some packages can give me that stable?
14:02	kwladyka	Clojure is specific language... i am not sure how to thing about that... get simply framework and find packages or get complex framework. In other languages i am sure i want complex framework but Clojure is functional language and i am not so expirence with that.
14:03	boxed	those validation rules seems like just simple functions in the standard lib… but maybe you want something like http://let-caribou.in ?
14:03	boxed	or rather.. that’s what you’re looking for, but it might not be the best thing!
14:03	kwladyka	mayby in Clojure all is so simply to glue together so i can easy get simply web framework, some package for relationships and validation on database structer etc. and it will always work together stable
14:04	boxed	for example: that form “bindings” thing can be done much easier and simpler in Reagent
14:04	kwladyka	boxed: yes, its simply but there is more things like that, it's about time of coding
14:05	boxed	I mean in time of coding easier and simpler too… but of course using something new takes more time
14:06	kwladyka	boxed: for me is always better has ready solution for example validations with most possibilites what i want then write my own
14:06	boxed	eh.. depends
14:06	kwladyka	also the same with database relationship
14:06	kwladyka	but ofcourse example i always preffer my own solutions for front-end, using ready solutions always *ucks :)
14:06	ToBeReplaced	silly little puzzle... what's a nice way to go from [0 1 2 3] to ([0 1 2 3] [1 2 3] [2 3] [3]) ? All i've got is (->> [0 1 2 3] (iterate next) (take-while some?))... which is close enough, but doesn't read very well
14:07	boxed	kwladyka: try Reagent. Really!
14:10	boxed	,(let [x [0 1 2 3]] (for [i (range (count x))] (drop i x)))
14:10	clojurebot	((0 1 2 3) (1 2 3) (2 3) (3))
14:11	boxed	reads pretty clearly imo
14:12	ToBeReplaced	boxed: not sure i agree, but subjective so ::shrug::
14:13	boxed	“give me the list dropping nothing, then give me the list dropping one, and so forth until the list is empty”
14:13	ToBeReplaced	boxed: i don't like that it requires x to be countable
14:13	boxed	ah
14:13	boxed	you want something that works for a seq of 1 2 3 too?
14:14	ToBeReplaced	boxed: but maybe that's a feature for readability
14:14	boxed	I think it can be :P
14:14	ToBeReplaced	boxed: i don't know what i want / don't have anything in particular i'm looking for... just realized that i didn't care for what i had and was interested in seeing other ways
14:16	boxed	to my mind it makes more sense to make the terminating form as explicit as possible.. “(take-while some?)” doesn’t really speak to me but “(drop i x)” is very clear
14:16	kwladyka	boxed reagent is javascript not "clear" Clojure? Damn... so many things to test and thing about the choice :)
14:17	boxed	kwladyka: it’s for ClojureScript not Clojure yea, so you run it on the client instead of javascript
14:18	kwladyka	is it somethig similar to meteor framework?
14:20	kwladyka	ok so i have last question :)
14:20	boxed	kwladyka: not really.. meteor seems to go the entire way to the DB which sounds like a horribly bad idea. Reagent is more like… angular maybe? but imo better and based on React so much much faster
14:22	kwladyka	Clojure is functional language and i am beginner with that. Example in PHP is good to have big complex framework with everything because glues some idenpedned parts is not easy. How is it look in Clojure? Better is get complex framework or simply framework + package for validation + package for database structure etc. What do you thing about that?
14:22	kwladyka	or mayby packages like that doesn't exist :)
14:23	boxed	you don’t need a big package for validation. Just make a simple if statement.
14:23	kwladyka	boxed i have to write "Reagent" in my notes to check this :)
14:23	kwladyka	i know but the question is about something else
14:23	boxed	kwladyka: http://yogthos.net/blog/54-Building+Single+Page+Apps+with+Reagent
14:24	kwladyka	how easy and stable is glue many small element in Clojure, better then one complex framework or not?
14:24	boxed	putting together parts is mostly a lot easier yea
14:24	TimMc	ToBeReplaced: ##(reverse (rest (reductions conj () (reverse (range 4)))))
14:24	lazybot	⇒ ((0 1 2 3) (1 2 3) (2 3) (3))
14:24	TimMc	Now, just to replace conj with something that starts with "re"...
14:24	boxed	but it’s also early days in Clojure, so maybe there _should_ be a big framework that is a collection of good stuff
14:25	technomancy	boxed: iiuc that's what luminus is
14:25	boxed	technomancy: ok.. haven’t gotten that far yet :P
14:25	technomancy	I haven't used it either
14:25	boxed	kwladyka: so look at luminus too! :P
14:27	kwladyka	boxed, i don't know today how it should works in functional language... i know in non-functional is good to have complex solutions but only because is hard to integrate all this things. But from other side having all complex give some problems when you want something more custom... i guess the only one way to figure out what is better in Clojure is learn and try both ideas.
14:27	verma	is there a reason to use emacs over vim + fireplace for clojure(script) dev?
14:28	technomancy	verma: lots of reasons to, and lots of reasons not to
14:28	boxed	kwladyka: addaboy!
14:28	kwladyka	lighttable looks good as editor
14:28	kwladyka	i think :)
14:28	kwladyka	because i am beginner but it look really good
14:28	jcromart_	OK so I am going to say, I really really really like Enlive for most things
14:28	jcromart_	but when it comes to something like forms
14:28	jcromart_	I am at a loss
14:28	jcromart_	forms are like, blech
14:28	boxed	kwladyka: I find that clojure seems to be nice to plug things together because of a strong culture of keeping the data itself simple with maps, sets and lists. That makes combining things much much easier than in OOP
14:28	jcromart_	I mean HTML forms are always kind of like that
14:29	kwladyka	boxed: but example in PHP i can definitly say what is better... just expirience :)
14:29	jcromart_	I guess not everything in my views needs to be an Envlive defsnippet
14:30	kwladyka	boxed: yes and this is the reason why i am thinging about try more small ements then less bigger in Clojrue. Becaouse of cluture of maps etc.
14:30	verma	technomancy, I see emacs being popular among clojure developers, wonder if that's because its a concious choice over vim or is it just because that's what they've been using before clojure
14:30	moquist	kwladyka: There's some good advice here (blog.getprismatic.com/software-engineering-at-prismatic/) about how to think differently in Clojure-land than in OOP-land. Note the gentle push away from frameworks and toward libraries.
14:31	moquist	kwladyka: I use emacs+EVIL+cider for Clojure work, but highly recommend checking out lighttable.
14:31	technomancy	verma: well it is a lisp virtual machine
14:32	kwladyka	moquist: thx, i will read that
14:32	kwladyka	Anybody use lighttable?
14:32	verma	technomancy, sure, but does that play a part in day to day software dev?
14:32	kwladyka	http://www.lighttable.com/
14:32	verma	kwladyka, I've "tried it" sure
14:33	technomancy	verma: it does if you're using it correctly
14:33	kwladyka	verma and what do you think about that?
14:33	verma	technomancy, nice, tell me more, or point me to somewhere
14:33	technomancy	working in programs that don't have a repl as an integral part of them is just a nightmare
14:33	boxed	kwladyka: yea I code clojure in it… it’s a bit rough but has some really nice things too
14:33	kwladyka	its really similar edior to Sublime Text 3 as in my opinion is one of the best
14:33	technomancy	well, programs with nontrivial interfaces
14:34	verma	kwladyka, vi bindings were a little iffy, so I never gave it much time, but it seemed like I could customize it a lot
14:34	technomancy	it's just ... you're a programmer. you should be programming your programs as you use them. that should be your natural state.
14:34	technomancy	but so much crap is hard-coded and impossible to modify.
14:34	verma	technomancy, :)
14:35	technomancy	the fact that browsers don't work this way should be a source of great shame for the entire industry
14:35	technomancy	http://technomancy.us/161
14:35	technomancy	this isn't specific to emacs or anything
14:36	technomancy	smalltalk and genera are the same way
14:37	verma	technomancy, hmm nice
14:38	boxed	technomancy: I looked into fiddling with the syntax highlighting of clojure in light table… turns out it’s all a big hairy javascript parser that’s pretty damn horrible. I just gave up
14:38	boxed	I wanted to add reasonable things like marking the keys in maps diffently from the values… but yea
14:39	tjd	is there an idiomatic way to version records with edn?
14:39	Glenjamin	Firefox sorta works that way, it's a shame there was that dark spell where venkman and dom inspector weren't supported well
14:39	tjd	like #com.example.Product.V1 {:foo "bar"}
14:40	tjd	but that feels dirty
14:41	dnolen_	ClojureScript 0.0-2277 released, should fix REPL issues to Google Closure Library changes
14:41	dnolen_	due to
14:42	technomancy	Glenjamin: in a way that's even worse
14:42	technomancy	because there's no technical reason it sucks so bad
14:42	technomancy	all the parts are there to build something sensible, and no one has done it
14:43	Glenjamin	UI was all hackable XUL and JS, extensions can do basically anything
14:43	Glenjamin	Not sure how true that is anymore
14:43	Jaood	technomancy: so is it emacs what drove to you clojure? :)
14:43	technomancy	Jaood: absolutely
14:44	Jaood	thought so by reading that post
14:44	boxed	what’s the name of that site that shows you which clojure libs are used by which projects and how popular libs are? I can never remember
14:44	technomancy	boxed: http://clojuresphere.com
14:45	Glenjamin	Cross clj as well?
14:45	boxed	huh, that wasn’t the one I was thinking about but that’s cool :P
15:01	Bronsa	hiredman: ping
15:02	hiredman	yo
15:02	hiredman	I mean pong
15:03	Bronsa	hiredman: hi, I'm looking at your patch&comments on CLJ-701 and you mention you're seeing some verification errors
15:03	hiredman	yes, which I have had no luck solving
15:03	Bronsa	I've been implementing loop/try hoisting on tools.emitter.jvm myself over the last couple of days & it compiles data.json fine
15:04	hiredman	lucky you :)
15:04	Bronsa	do you have any specific code you can give me that causes the error so I can help you out?
15:04	hiredman	https://github.com/clojure/data.json/blob/master/src/test/clojure/clojure/data/json_compat_0_1_test.clj#L221
15:04	hiredman	I have been meaning to do a gist or something writing up the current issue I am having
15:06	hiredman	basically, it sort of looks like operations on longs are not being emitted in such a way as to properly take in to take in to account how many local slots a long takes up
15:06	hiredman	I am not 100% sure that is accurate, but it is what seems to be the case
15:08	hiredman	but I don't think the compiler at all concerns itself with that issue, defering to asm to track it internally, so how it could be a problem I have no idea
15:08	Bronsa	hiredman: ok I've confirmed that it works w/ t.e.j, I'll look into it when I have some time
15:08	Bronsa	hiredman: uhm, I'm pretty sure the compiler needs to deal with it actually
15:09	kwladyka	boxed: thx again for http://www.clojuresphere.com/ :)
15:09	Bronsa	hiredman: for longs/doubles it needs to reserve 2 local slots
15:10	hiredman	right
15:10	gfrederi`	so leiningen profiles
15:10	hiredman	but I haven't seen a place in the compiler where it does that
15:10	gfredericks	if I have a profile that adds a dependency
15:10	gfredericks	should `lein with-profile +foo uberjar` actually work?
15:10	hiredman	(which I thought it must, for deftypes with primitives, primitive lets, etc)
15:10	gfredericks	or is uberjar going to undermine my efforts?
15:11	hiredman	so I assumed asm's internal machinery must be doing the bookkeeping
15:14	hiredman	maybe I am just not doing the registerlocal thing correctly
15:14	hiredman	anyway, I spent all of yesterday pointedly not thinking about it :)
15:16	Bronsa	hiredman: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L5213, https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L7998, https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L4296
15:16	vdmit11	Hi folks. I'm implementing a bunch of custom types. For instance, there are 'Action' and 'Process', a Process consists of Actions. Both types have a property called 'duration'. But the Process needs to calculate the 'duration' as a sum of all nested Actions. So I'm going to define a protocol. So there is a question: how to put such a "field" to a protocol? Is there an idiomatic way, something more handy than a getter and a setter method? Is it idiomatic to comb
15:19	Bronsa	hiredman: + all the places where it checks to know whether to emit pop or pop2
15:20	hiredman	right
15:20	hiredman	interesting
15:21	hiredman	(I was aware of the pop2 thing, but somehow must have missed this)
15:36	gfredericks	oh I see the problem
15:37	gfredericks	if my :dev profile includes the :foo profile, then I'm unable to add :foo to the uberjar task
15:37	gfredericks	i.e., it silently doesn't add it
15:39	gfredericks	does anybody know if this is a bug?
15:49	llasram	gfredericks: I think it's a known issue... The problem is that the :dev profile gets unmerged as part of the uberjar task
15:50	llasram	Hmm, which. Yeah, maybe it is a bug
15:50	llasram	My absence means I'm out of the loop -- jcrossley fixed some related-in-my-mind bugs right before the last release
15:52	llasram	The profile unmerging stuff always goes fuzzy unless I focus my entire consciousness on it
15:52	gfredericks	yeah I don't have any guesses how it works
15:54	gfredericks	my use case is just that I want different versions of a dependency
15:54	gfredericks	seems innocuous enough
15:55	gfredericks	and the versions actually have different group names, so I can't put a default in the main :dependencies list
15:55	llasram	Ugh. Yeah, I hate that
15:56	gfredericks	so I did :profiles {:a {deps w/ a} :b {deps w/ b} :dev' {normal dev stuff} :dev [:dev' :a]}
15:57	llasram	Last time I fought with something like that, I ended up using with-profile aliases to entirely replace the default profile set
15:57	llasram	https://github.com/damballa/parkour/blob/master/project.clj#L39-L52
15:58	mdrogalis	stuartsierra: Component question. Why'd you decide to wrap up exceptions emitted from start/stop-system into the cause of another exception?
16:00	stuartsierra	mdrogalis: They're wrapped to convey the last known state of the system before the exception was thrown, so you can use it to recover or clean up.
16:02	mdrogalis	stuartsierra: Hm, alright.
16:03	stuartsierra	It's not necessarily sufficient: if a component's `start` method created some partial state and then threw an exception, you will not have any way to get at the partially-constructed state.
16:04	stuartsierra	I can't fix this: you have to write your `start` and `stop` methods carefully if you want to protect against this.
16:06	jcromart_	where is the appropriate channel on freenode for venting/rambling?
16:10	technomancy	#emacs for the latter
16:12	llasram	The mission of #clojure-offtopic seems broad enough to encompass nearly anything
16:13	technomancy	you can also do a private message to clojurebot
16:13	mr-foobar	i have regexes, start and end, to define a text region. how can I extract multiple regions from a text file, functionally ?
16:13	llasram	technomancy: That seems so... extra sad though
16:14	technomancy	llasram: well you never know when something you say may resurface
16:16	alexyakushev	Hi everyone. What would be the best way to get a dependency tree of namespaces for one chosen namespace? I'm thinking about clojure.tools.namespace, but not sure how to apply it
16:17	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: tools.namespace does have the necessary pieces...
16:17	alexyakushev	I suppose functions from clojure.tools.namespace.dependency should help, right?
16:18	stuartsierra	That's part of it, but that's just the dependency tree data structure, not specific to namespaces.
16:19	stuartsierra	Shortest way right now is to create a project with your namespace + tools.namespace, call `clojure.tools.namespace.repl/refresh`, then get the dependency graph from (:clojure.tools.namespace.track/deps @#'clojure.tools.namespace.repl/refresh-tracker)
16:20	stuartsierra	Not at all obvious, I know.
16:20	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: Yeah, and kinda side-effectish
16:21	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: Seems like I'll have to do it manually by calling read-ns-decl
16:22	stuartsierra	tools.namespace mostly works with files, and relies on the ability to parse the `ns` declaration without evaluating it.
16:25	alexyakushev	Can I somehow infer a list of required namespaces in pure Clojure?
16:25	alexyakushev	Maybe from "mappings" or "namespaces" maps
16:33	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: You could get close with `ns-refers` and `ns-aliases`, but neither tells you if a namespace :require's another namespace without aliasing or referring any symbols.
16:33	stuartsierra	e.g. (ns foo (:require bar))
16:35	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: Well, I guess I'll stick to tools.namespace then
16:35	stuartsierra	^^ The dependency of 'foo' on 'bar' cannot be determined from runtime metadata.
16:36	stuartsierra	It's tricky because Clojure doesn't really have a notion of a compilation unit larger than a single expression.
16:37	stuartsierra	Files are just sequences of expressions to the compiler; `in-ns` and `require` are side-effects.
16:37	technomancy	depending on what it's for, it may be reasonable to say that if you alias or refer without a require, you're doing it wrong, and the tool is just not going to help you
16:37	technomancy	slamhound does plenty of that
16:37	technomancy	and some people don't like it, but I can just say "too bad; that's not what slamhound is for" and get on with life.
16:38	stuartsierra	I agree that using a namespace without 'require'ing it is probably a mistake, but I do sometimes :require a full name without an alias or a refer.
16:39	fifosine	If I change a method in hashmap, is there a way to force all other methods to return the same type (i.e., a hashmap with the same changed method)?
16:41	alexyakushev	stuartsierra, technomancy: Thank you for clarification
16:42	alexyakushev	The usecase actually is to get the list of all clj files in my own library, but in the "correct" order
16:42	alexyakushev	So I can control if I refer anything without :require (which I don't)
16:46	hoverbear	I've got a "io.undertow.servlet.util.IteratorEnumeration@3b9c778e" .... How do I "unwrap" this in Clojure?
16:46	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: Something like this might work (-> (clojure.tools.namespace.dir/scan (clojure.tools.namespace.track/tracker) "src") :clojure.tools.namespace.track/deps clojure.tools.namespace.dependency/topo-sort)
16:48	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: Can I make it scan files on the classpath?
16:49	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: yes, use java.classpath to get a list of directories on the classpath
16:51	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: Well, what I meant is that I want to scan files that are in a jar
16:51	stuartsierra	That's much harder.
16:51	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: You can expand files in the jar with java.classpath too.
16:51	justin_smith	alexyakushev: a jar is a zip file, open it with your favorite zip file software
16:52	justin_smith	unless you mean you have to do it inside clojure at runtime
16:52	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: What are you really trying to do?
16:54	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: It's complicated:). @bbatsov and @trptcolin are trying to replace clojure-complete with Compliment in Reply. There is a usecase in Reply where it has to transmit all clojure files for the underlying completion backend to the remote nREPL instance.
16:54	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: The order of files transmitted should be such that if evaluated one after one it will work correctly
16:55	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: I don't like to hardcode all of the Compliment files inside Reply, so I'm searching a way for Reply to build that list of files automatically
16:57	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: OK, so you want to search for all .clj files anywhere on the classpath then, right?
16:58	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: Ideally for all files that belong to "compliment/" directory in resources, but yes, I can search for all and filter them after
16:58	BobSchack	seangrove: I just pushed perf improvements, api improvements and an in depth caching example.
17:00	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: Why does 'Reply' need to know about all the namespaces in 'Compliment'?
17:00	BobSchack	I'll be busy during the weekend but feel free to email me any questions you have and pain points you discover and I should be able to get to them next week.
17:01	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: That's even more complicated. Reply supports mode when it connects to a remote nREPL instance that might not have any completion backend loaded. So in order to provide completion it transfers all the files for completion backend to that nREPL instance and loads them there.
17:06	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: I have to say, this all sounds excessively complicated to me. But if you really want to do it... yes, you could use java.classpath to enumerate every file on the classpath, filter them by name, then use tools.namespace.file to add each file to a dependency graph, get the topologically-sorted list, then filter again by your namespace prefix.
17:08	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: At this point the hardcoding solution doesn't seem that bad
17:08	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: yes.
17:08	technomancy	alexyakushev: bultitude does this
17:08	technomancy	oh, but you probably can't add a dep
17:09	seangrove	BobSchack: That's awesome, thank you
17:09	mikerod	what is a good use case for `var-get`?
17:10	mikerod	it looks like `deref` is the same thing for a var
17:10	mikerod	and it is used by it
17:10	alexyakushev	technomancy: Perhaps I could try to use builtitude, thanks
17:10	mikerod	if(!threadBound.get())
17:11	mikerod	maybe this is the difference, but I don't see what the implications of this is
17:11	mikerod	So, can `var-get` give you a different result than `deref` for some Var object?
17:11	alexyakushev	technomancy: If it's only one dependency, I can probably talk Colin into it
17:11	technomancy	"It's not just a Clojure lib... it's a Raynes® lib."
17:12	technomancy	taste the difference
17:12	trptcolin	alexyakushev: fwiw my principal dependency concerns are for lein users
17:13	technomancy	bultitude is already in lein, but not on the project side
17:13	trptcolin	and since lein already uses bultitude (in the lein process/classloader) it should probably be fine
17:13	Raynes	technomancy and I are the king of ignoring stuartsierra's objections to features and just writing our own libraries. :P
17:13	stuartsierra	:)
17:13	technomancy	Raynes: but... it's part of this complete breakfast
17:13	trptcolin	btw how do people feel about this potential clojure-complete -> compliment transition?
17:14	stuartsierra	trptcolin: This discussion isn't filling me with confidence.
17:14	trptcolin	the big win as far as i’m concerned is being able to complete available java instance methods
17:14	Raynes	In all seriousness, the original reason for bultitude's existence was an issue with the other lib breaking on malformed ns lines.
17:14	Raynes	I don't think we communicated the issue well enough to stuartsierra so he declined a fix.
17:14	Raynes	In case anyone was ever wondering.
17:15	stuartsierra	Or it was just my natural obtuseness. :P
17:15	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: Well, that mess is not about Compliment. REPLy already did the files-transaction-evaluation thing, but clojure-complete had just one file
17:15	stuartsierra	obtusity?
17:15	Raynes	Bultitude is basically a leiningen-optimized version of stuartsierra's lovely library.
17:15	stuartsierra	obtusiveness?
17:16	technomancy	Raynes: didn't a lot of it come from swank?
17:16	Raynes	technomancy: I don't think so?
17:16	technomancy	oh
17:16	technomancy	carry on then
17:16	Raynes	technomancy: I'm pretty sure you just copied stuart's library and changed like a line of code.
17:16	Raynes	Then I moved it into a separate library
17:16	Raynes	And then people added features ad infinitum.
17:16	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: So can you fit your library in one file?
17:17	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: nah, that was my original gripe with clojure-complete
17:17	alexyakushev	Well, one of
17:18	stuartsierra	Then I think I give up. :)
17:20	technomancy	Raynes: you still want a keyboard?
17:21	Raynes	technomancy: My body says yes but my bank account says next month.
17:21	technomancy	works for me
17:21	alexyakushev	stuartsierra: You've tried though:) Anyway thank you for fruitful discussion, I now know better to accept low-hanging approaches and not over-engineer
17:21	Raynes	technomancy: I'll set a reminder to send you a bag of cash on the 1st.
17:21	stuartsierra	alexyakushev: You're welcome. Good luck!
17:22	technomancy	gold coins would be ok too
17:22	Raynes	technomancy: To be clear, I just said "Ok google, remind me on the 1st of August to buy a keyboard from Phil Hagelberg" and my WRISTWATCH set a reminder.
17:22	Raynes	Just so you know how much technology I just used.
17:23	technomancy	I'm holding out for smart pocket watches
17:24	seangrove	technomancy: Same here, can't wait for google monocle
17:24	Raynes	technomancy: The best part was that it even got the spelling of your name right.
17:24	stuartsierra	technomancy: like … a phone?
17:26	technomancy	stuartsierra: it's not the same without the gold chain
17:26	technomancy	future status http://86bb71d19d3bcb79effc-d9e6924a0395cb1b5b9f03b7640d26eb.r91.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/zelda-ocarina-of-time-money-cheat-big-and-purple-rupees-guide-screenshot.jpg
17:26	technomancy	heh, this one is pretty good too though http://www.funnyjunk.com/channel/legend-of-zelda/I/onkrDba
17:27	pmonks	I’m still waiting for smart people to be as ubiquitous as smart gadgets (present company excluded, of course!).
17:27	stuartsierra	http://www.amazon.com/FOSC-Crossbody-Wearable-Silicone-Samsung/dp/B00EVZRPNK
17:28	technomancy	not bad
17:31	mimieux
17:45	PigDude	What is the idiomatic way to update multiple record fields? I have been using merge
17:45	PigDude	(-> r (assoc :k v) (assoc :k v)) i don't like the repeated assoc
17:46	Bronsa	,(assoc {} :a 1 :b 2)
17:46	clojurebot	{:b 2, :a 1}
17:47	dbasch	PigDude: assoc takes multiple kvs, see the docs
17:47	PigDude	oh ok, thanks dbasch
17:50	_2_candy12345	:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
17:54	bbloom	does anybody else consistently accidentally lose e by causing another exception while trying to inspect e ?
17:54	perplexa	haha
17:54	Bronsa	me too
17:54	perplexa	+1
17:54	Bronsa	bbloom: I learned to (def a *e) because I'm too stupid
17:55	bbloom	idea: if the symbol e appears in the expression, then don't set e... sound like it would help?
17:55	bbloom	could anything horrible go wrong with that?
17:56	bbloom	Bronsa: heh, why not (def e *e) ....
17:56	ambrosebs	(pst) ;=> ; No such var
17:56	bbloom	ambrosebs: argh.
17:56	bbloom	i actually despise the relative nature of *1 etc too
17:57	gfredericks	erlang style integers would be cool
17:57	Bronsa	haha I actually constantly mess up *1 & friends too
17:57	bbloom	mathematica has Out[n]
17:57	bbloom	with shorthand %n
17:57	bbloom	but also supports arbitrary strings of %
17:57	Bronsa	85% of the times I (use 'clojure.pprint) and forget to replace 1 with 2 on the previous input
17:57	bbloom	so you get both relative and absolute
17:58	gfredericks	my bg macro defs things with incrementing integers
17:58	bbloom	http://reference.wolfram.com/language/ref/Out.html
17:58	gfredericks	but that's only useful for backgrounding slow things
17:59	bbloom	seems like %% is represented by Out[-2]
17:59	bbloom	that's basically what i want
17:59	bbloom	(clojure.repl/in n) and (clojure.repl/out n)
17:59	bbloom	and (clojure.repl/err n)
18:00	bbloom	with both absolute & relative
18:00	gfredericks	negatives for relative?
18:00	bbloom	yes
18:01	gfredericks	should this be nrepl client stuff or middleware stuff or regular lib stuff?
18:01	bbloom	i think it needs to be part of nrepl, but i'm not an expert on that stuff
18:01	bbloom	i also want the default history to be at least 100
18:01	ambrosebs	oh boo, I hope this interview gets put back up http://codequarterly.com/2011/rich-hickey/
18:02	mlb-	I'm setting a exception handler via Thread/setDefaultExceptionHandler (to simply call println, for now), but when I run (future (Thread/sleep 500) (/ 1 0)), I don't see any stdout. Am I missing something?
18:02	gfredericks	mlb-: yes
18:02	gfredericks	mlb-: futures will catch the exception and store it for throwing on deref
18:03	gfredericks	so the default exception handler doesn't factor in
18:03	mlb-	hmm. Okay.
18:03	gfredericks	try (.start (Thread. #(...)))
18:03	mlb-	Is that the same for core.async?
18:04	PigDude	why does (assoc r ..) return a new record, but (dissoc r) returns PersistentArrayMap?
18:04	gfredericks	no the default exception handler is relevant for at least some core.async usage
18:04	PigDude	is this behavior of assoc supported? the docs don't mention returning records
18:04	mlb-	gfredericks: okay, thanks much! =]
18:04	gfredericks	PigDude: a record has to have the basis keys
18:04	gfredericks	PigDude: so you always get records back unless you remove a basis key
18:04	PigDude	gfredericks: so assoc nil
18:04	gfredericks	mlb-: np
18:05	gfredericks	PigDude: not sure what you mean?
18:05	PigDude	gfredericks: if i want to unset a record field i need to assoc nil or otherwise create a new record, dissoc will remove the basis as you said
18:06	PigDude	gfredericks: is that right?
18:07	gfredericks	depends on what you're trying to achieve -- I think as envisioned removing a basis key is a weird thing to do
18:07	bbloom	,`*1 ; ugh, forgot about that
18:07	clojurebot	clojure.core/*1
18:07	bbloom	they aren't in clojure.repl or clojure.tools.nrepl or whatever
18:08	gfredericks	well nrepl does have to bother to set them
18:08	bbloom	yeah
18:09	gfredericks	PigDude: assoc nil is probably normal, yeah
18:09	gfredericks	I use that with component
18:11	PigDude	ok, thanks gfredericks !
18:13	PigDude	gfredericks: and then i just wrote (reduce dissoc {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3} [:a :b]) before thinking hm ... i bet dissoc takes multiple keys too :)
18:26	bmabey	I am using java.data and I want to define a multimethod that extends the functionality of the :default multimethod. How can I explicitly call the :default method so I can then adjust the results?
18:28	bbloom	(doc get-method) ; bmabey
18:28	clojurebot	"([multifn dispatch-val]); Given a multimethod and a dispatch value, returns the dispatch fn that would apply to that value, or nil if none apply and no default"
18:29	bmabey	bbloom: ah, thanks
18:42	lxsameer	hey guys, I'm totally new to clojure, is there any lib to develop android native apps using clojure ?
18:45	Atlanis	there was a really useful library I'd toyed with before, i'm looking to see if i can find it again
18:45	Atlanis	at least, you'll want lein-droid.
18:46	Atlanis	lxsameer: neko (https://github.com/clojure-android/neko)
18:48	lxsameer	Atlanis: thanks
18:57	Atlanis	Jaood: its about the same as on any other computer (~3 seconds). way longer than i want to wait for an app to launch, but with the way android works most apps dont launch often
18:57	Atlanis	clojure launch time still frustrating though :(
18:57	benkay	so frustrating.
20:00	bobby_tables	I am using the clojure.tools.analyzer.jvm namespace and the ast generation is taking FOREVER on even relatively small code samples. is anyone else running into this, or is there something that can be done to limit the analysis to speed it up? thanks!
20:03	ambrosebs	bobby_tables: it shouldn't be more than 10x slow afaik
20:03	ambrosebs	but its faster than that in my experience
20:03	bobby_tables	ambrosebs: hmm...
20:03	ambrosebs	um, you're not printing the output are you?
20:03	ambrosebs	otherwise, do you have an example?
20:04	bobby_tables	ambrosebs: well, thanks for letting me know that you are at least having a different experience so i can see if it is something else that is going on
20:05	bobby_tables	pprint... ahh, right... great point... i didn't cosider that it had to analyse the layout - thanks, I will give that a try
20:05	ambrosebs	if you're printing it, make sure print-length and print-level are defined
20:06	bobby_tables	yeeeeppp... that was it... it was nearly instantaneous without the pprint formatting
20:06	ambrosebs	otherwise the ast will probably crash your program
20:06	bobby_tables	ambrosebs: thanks a ton!
20:06	bobby_tables	ambrosebs: okay, I will do that
20:06	ambrosebs	I have this in my profiles.clj: {:user {:injections [(set! print-level 10) (set! print-length 10)]}}}
20:07	ambrosebs	erm extra }
20:07	ambrosebs	stolen from Bronsa
20:07	bobby_tables	ambrosebs: cool... thanks
20:07	bobby_tables	bronsa... and thanks to you as well...
20:07	ambrosebs	np
20:13	bobby_tables	ambrosebs: the binding change made a ton of difference... thanks
20:14	ambrosebs	great
20:14	Balveda	Has anyone used clj-pdf?
20:15	Balveda	I need to format data from an excel so that I can spit out cards on a pdf for future printing;
20:16	Balveda	And for that I need to take a bunch of vectors of maps and format the data in such a manner that I'm creating vectors and essentially... rotating the data from the initial vector
20:17	Balveda	so the thing in the first row turns into the first column, etc
20:17	Balveda	What would be a good way to do this?
20:46	PigDude	is there a shortcut for (zipmap (map k coll) coll)?
20:48	justin_smith	(reduce (fn [m v] (assoc m v (k v))) {} coll) not a shortcut, but is an laternate option
20:49	PigDude	sometimes i see people do weird (apply hash-map)-type stuff where zipmap would work
20:50	PigDude	(apply hash-map (interleave ...) or something
20:50	hyPiRion	(into {} (map (juxt k identity) coll))
20:50	PigDude	is there a reason for that or just to feel smart?
20:50	justin_smith	(inc hyPiRion)
20:50	lazybot	⇒ 40
20:50	justin_smith	yeah, I like that one best
20:50	PigDude	hehe
20:51	PigDude	ok thank you
20:51	justin_smith	PigDude: apply hash-map makes sense when the things you want are already alternating in one sequence
20:52	justin_smith	in k,v,k,v ... order
20:53	justin_smith	zipmap makes most sense when the source of the keys and the source of the vals are totally independent, but when they come from the same sequence (which is the majority of cases I see) it seems a bit odd to walk something twice to get one result
20:53	justin_smith	though the performance implications there are not likely huge
20:54	PigDude	justin_smith: yea, what surprised me was to see taking two sequences that could be (zipmap s s2) and doing (apply hash-map (interleave s s2))
20:55	justin_smith	yeah, that's a silly one for sure
20:55	justin_smith	(though I know I am guilty of worse)
20:55	PigDude	like making a mess to clean it up :)
20:55	PigDude	yea, core is big
21:02	Raynes	guys
21:02	Raynes	I need Chas's flowchart for whether or not to use records an stuff
21:02	Raynes	and*
21:03	justin_smith	http://cemerick.com/2011/07/05/flowchart-for-choosing-the-right-clojure-type-definition-form/
21:03	justin_smith	lol, as usual, I had it in my bookmarks but it was easier to find it via google
21:03	Raynes	thnx
21:03	justin_smith	np
21:17	tuft_	finally the weekend is here. time for clojure programming
21:17	PigDude	tuft: and here i am trying to fix this bug so i can start my weekend and not think about clojure programming for 48hrs
21:17	Balveda	did anyone reply? I dropped
21:19	justin_smith	Balveda: vectors as in the clj datatype and rotating values, or as in vectorial data in a pdf and rotating the x/y coords?
21:19	tuft	PigDude: hah, isn't that the way
21:19	Balveda	as in the data type
21:19	tuft	PigDude: btw don't make me think about python for at least that long
21:19	arrdem	damnit is ambrose gone already..
21:19	mthvedt	anger leads to hate, hate leads to object oriented frameworks
21:19	arrdem	(inc mthvedt)
21:20	lazybot	⇒ 4
21:20	Balveda	Basically I'm lifting data from an excel, so I get each row as a vector with all its information
21:20	justin_smith	,(apply map vector [[0 1 2] [3 4 5] [6 7 8]]) Balveda
21:20	clojurebot	([0 3 6] [1 4 7] [2 5 8])
21:20	Balveda	ah
21:20	Balveda	interesting
21:20	Balveda	thanks
21:20	justin_smith	np
21:21	PigDude	tuft: don't make me think about python either :) too soon
21:21	PigDude	tuft: i am picking up sml in my free time :)
21:22	justin_smith	Balveda: you can even do (def transpose (partial apply map vector))
21:22	justin_smith	though that may look like magic and may call for a comment explicating wtf that is doing :)
21:23	Balveda	well, i think i get the transpose part
21:23	Balveda	but the partial, no idea
21:24	justin_smith	partial returns a function that takes some more args, and applies all preceding args to it
21:24	justin_smith	,(map (partial + 20) (range 5))
21:24	clojurebot	(20 21 22 23 24)
21:25	Balveda	i see
21:25	justin_smith	well, that was a sloppy description, but hopefully the example helps :)
21:25	PigDude	Balveda: that works because of how (map) consumes extra collections:
21:25	PigDude	,(map #(identity %&) [1 2 3] [4 5 6]))
21:25	clojurebot	((1 4) (2 5) (3 6))
21:25	justin_smith	PigDude: hah, using the implicit list generation of varargs, nice
21:26	PigDude	;)
21:27	justin_smith	though I prefer (fn [& l] l) -- it's two characters shorter
21:27	justin_smith	or perhaps just list
21:27	justin_smith	heh
21:27	justin_smith	,(map list [1 2 3] [4 5 6])
21:27	clojurebot	((1 4) (2 5) (3 6))
21:27	Balveda	clojure is magic sometimes.
21:28	justin_smith	Balveda: there are lot's of funny tricks, but if you hang around here you'll see a lot of them
21:28	Balveda	what's the deal with map though?
21:28	justin_smith	Balveda: it's vararg
21:28	Balveda	how come the mapping rotates the vectors?
21:28	verma	is there a way to do a update-in style swap-in for atoms? which limits the swap to a certain key or seq of keys?
21:29	justin_smith	Balveda: if you map across multiple sequences, your function gets the first element of each one as args
21:29	justin_smith	then, it gets the second element of each one
21:29	justin_smith	etc. until you get to the end of the shortest one
21:29	justin_smith	if all you want is to rotate columns / rows, then you make a list of all the first items, then a list of all the second items, then a list of all the third items...
21:30	PigDude	(swap! a
21:30	Balveda	I see
21:30	PigDude	sorry wrong window
21:30	Balveda	I'll try this out as soon as I get my setup in this thing
21:30	Balveda	I have all my stuff in the linux partition
21:30	justin_smith	yeah, dev on linux tends to be more sane
21:30	verma	it'd be nice to do a (swap-in! atom [:hello :world] assoc :what "world") -> {:hello {:world {:what "world"}}}
21:31	Balveda	can't play masterwork dwarf fortress on linux though.. at least not the latest version
21:31	Balveda	and after a couple of hours of trying to get that to work i needed a break, heh
21:31	ToBeReplaced	"block and consume everything until channel is closed" -> (async/reduce (constantly nil) nil channel)? something more idiomatic?
21:31	justin_smith	verma: why not (swap! atom assoc-in [:hello :world :what] "world")
21:32	justin_smith	,(swap! (atom {}) assoc-in [:hello :world :what] "world")
21:32	clojurebot	{:hello {:world {:what "world"}}}
21:32	verma	justin_smith, because I am going to replace the assoc with a more complex function
21:32	justin_smith	then use update-in
21:32	ToBeReplaced	i have a case where i'm using a channel as a sentinel... thread X periodically checks if channel is closed, if it is, stops
21:32	verma	that was just an example
21:33	verma	justin_smith, sure, just thought there was some better way :) thanks
21:33	justin_smith	,(swap! (atom {}) update-in [:hello :world] #(assoc % :what "world"))
21:34	clojurebot	{:hello {:world {:what "world"}}}
21:34	verma	oh
21:34	verma	justin_smith, sweet
21:34	verma	justin_smith, much better than that what I was going to do :)
21:34	verma	(inc justin_smith)
21:34	lazybot	⇒ 53
21:47	drguildo	does anyone have any idea what's causing this when i run cider-jack-in? https://www.refheap.com/88607
21:48	drguildo	i don't have any functions called create in my project
21:49	drguildo	or other symbols
21:50	justin_smith	what is in C:\Users\Simon.Simon-T400\AppData\Local\Temp\form-init6118470964490798405.clj
21:51	justin_smith	it has an error on line 4009
21:52	justin_smith	sounds like either cider is broken by an update, or your install is hosed (hell, it could be both)
21:52	drguildo	it looks like some kind of intermediate compiled version of the code
21:53	justin_smith	some transformed version of your own namespaces?
21:53	drguildo	which looks pretty much like gibberish to me
21:53	drguildo	i guess
21:57	drguildo	it seems to work since i did "lein new" using a normal command prompt instead of one running inside emacs
21:57	drguildo	shrug
21:58	drguildo	oh wait
21:58	drguildo	i forgot to paste the code into the buffer
22:02	drguildo	yeah looks like shell+cmd messed things up
22:07	technomancy	justin_smith: eval-in-project writes forms to a file since windows can't handle command-line args of the length we need
22:08	justin_smith	technomancy: oh, interesting
22:09	justin_smith	technomancy: so that file will have everything cider has evaluated in it
22:10	nkozo	there is a way in prismatic schema to specify an specific value? this doesnt work: (schema.core/validate {:k 3} {:k 3}))
22:10	technomancy	justin_smith: just the first eval-in-project call
22:10	technomancy	which is usually from lein repl, not cider
22:11	justin_smith	ahh
22:11	nkozo	ok, found it, is schema.core/eq
22:12	justin_smith	it's funny all the different ways windows users get hobbled because ms so extensively commited to the philosophy of "standards are for the other guy"
22:12	clojurebot	Huh?
22:12	cespare	When I do deftype, why can't I add an extra method not on the interface I provided? ("Can't define method not in interfaces")
22:17	technomancy	justin_smith: more like "command lines are for the other guy"
22:17	technomancy	where "other" here means "the 1980s"
22:17	technomancy	I mean, it's certified posix compliant, so...
22:19	justin_smith	lol
22:20	justin_smith	btw, linux is not posix compliant
22:22	bbloom	cespare: in theory, you shouldn't need them. although i'll admit there are a few cases i've wanted a private method or two
22:22	technomancy	I wish I could remember the exact wording, but someone once said that Posix is to the aftermath of the unix wars as the restrictions on naval tonnage was to the aftermath of WWI.
22:23	justin_smith	hah
22:23	bbloom	standards are overrated anyway
22:23	sm0ke	linux is not posix? really?
22:24	p_l	sm0ke: it's not certified
22:24	sm0ke	who all are certified?
22:25	justin_smith	sm0ke: irony being windows is certified (and barely if at all usable as a posix system)
22:25	cespare	bbloom: why shouldn't I need them?
22:25	p_l	POSIX certs are outdated, these days you want SUSv3
22:25	cespare	bbloom: methods are the only place I can use set!, yes?
22:25	p_l	justin_smith: windows posix subsystem gave about as good as OpenBSD, afaik, with better GUI and driver support ;)
22:25	bbloom	cespare: that's the one case where a private method would actually be useful, and i'd agree it's an oversight
22:26	cespare	bbloom: I'm still missing something though -- why wouldn't one expect to add any methods you want? In Java, you can define any methods that aren't on the interfaces you're implementing, right?
22:26	cespare	bbloom: and what's the workaround; make a protocol that has what I need?
22:27	bbloom	cespare: public methods that aren't part of an interface is a generally bad idea
22:28	bbloom	cespare: "always code to an abstraction" when working with objects
22:28	cespare	bbloom: okay, I wasn't aware of that. I'm not a java programmer.
22:28	cespare	thanks
22:28	bbloom	cespare: that's a controversial statement for java programmers, but not so for java programmers who write clojure on the side :-P
22:29	cespare	bbloom: I just wanted to implement IDeref
22:29	cespare	but also have some other methods.
22:29	bbloom	cespare: so what other public methods do you need?
22:29	bbloom	cespare: just define a protocol
22:29	bbloom	it's that simple
22:29	cespare	yeah, makes sense.
22:29	technomancy	bbloom: wait, "always code to an abstraction" is good, but private vars are bad?
22:29	technomancy	how is this possible
22:31	bbloom	technomancy: i didn't say private vars were bad
22:31	bbloom	technomancy: i said i'd like private methods
22:31	technomancy	ok, I was recalling a twitter conversation from a few days ago, but maybe I got the names mixed up
22:31	bbloom	i don't buy in to the idea that encapsulation has absolutely no place, only that it's significantly less useful when you have immutable data
22:32	technomancy	I'm glad that Clojure makes it both 0) easy to declare things as private and 1) nearly as easy to get around that declaration when you decide it's worth the risk
22:33	eggsby	less reason to have private stuff when you don't carry around a bunch of mutable state
22:33	bbloom	technomancy: agreed for vars, but the situation with deftype is a little less good
22:33	technomancy	I wouldn't know
22:33	technomancy	eggsby: having the freedom to change your arglists and know you're not going to break downstream consumers is a wonderful thing
22:34	technomancy	there are a bunch of places in lein where we have just a complete mess because it would be a breaking change to do the thing that actually makes sense
22:34	eggsby	isn't that kind of solved by versioning your api technomancy
22:34	bbloom	eggsby: i don't know of any decent API versioning support in any language really
22:34	technomancy	eggsby: there are various reasons why you would want to space out breaking changes by a year or more
22:35	eggsby	technomancy: I guess it is a litle ridiculous to think every refactor might lead to a version bump
22:35	technomancy	granted it's not as bad for most libs
22:35	technomancy	as it is with lein
22:36	eggsby	when I'm programming java I often feel the need to make things private to protect them from would-be future use
22:38	eggsby	well, probably b/c every third party api is stateful and mutable...