#clojure – 2014-07-24

2014-07-24

00:10	deadghost	I just updated my emacs packages
00:10	deadghost	and might've broken my clojure-mode
00:10	deadghost	http://i.imgur.com/Ue9xWJn.png
00:11	deadghost	not sure if the orange namespaces are intentional
00:12	wildnux	I tried (slurp "/proc/acpi/bbswitch")
00:12	wildnux	but it threw:
00:12	wildnux	IOException Invalid argument java.io.FileInputStream.available (FileInputStream.java:-2)
00:13	wildnux	is there a simple way to do 'cat' in repl?
00:16	wildnux	can anyone tell me why it does not work but this works: (slurp (java.io.FileReader. "/proc/acpi/bbswitch"))
00:18	deadghost	wildnux, there's (:out (clojure.java.shell/sh "cat" "/path/to/file"))
00:18	wildnux	deadghost: nice
00:19	ttasterisco	try (slurp (java.io.FileInputStream. "/proc/acpi/bbswitch"))
00:28	wildnux	what is the naming convention for clojure for two word file name? fooBar.clj, foobar.clj, foo_bar.clj or foo-bar.clj ?
00:28	arrdem	foo-bar isn't valid
00:28	arrdem	fair warning
00:28	arrdem	foo-bar as a namespace maps to foo_bar.clj
00:28	arrdem	common and poorly documented pitfall
00:29	wildnux	arrdem: so how should we name multiword clojure source file?
00:29	arrdem	foo/bar.clj is ideal, foo_bar if you must, alternatively choos a better foo
00:29	arrdem	wildnux: in Clojure multiword source files are almost unheard of
00:30	deadghost	the more you know~~
00:31	deadghost	seriously http://i.imgur.com/Ue9xWJn.png is that orange ns stuff intentional in emacs clojure-mode?
00:31	wildnux	arrdem: i need to up my naming creativity :D
00:31	deadghost	because it's bugging the hell out of me
00:31	arrdem	wildnux: creative naming is very important to us. please also don't have a top level package. Don't be that guy.
00:31	arrdem	[clj-my-lib "0.1.0"] gtfo
00:31	arrdem	[com.foo/shit "0.1.0"] better
00:32	wildnux	arrdem: but that comes from namespace right? not the file name..
00:32	arrdem	also please don't use clj-* it's a wasteland of poor naming although there is some good stuff in there
00:32	arrdem	wildnux: that's the lein/maven groupid not the package.
00:33	arrdem	wildnux: remember namespaces map to files 1:1 (if you're going to support require)
00:34	wildnux	arrdem: ah! I see, i will go through some existing projects to see how they do it :)
00:34	wildnux	good night for now :) thank you
00:34	arrdem	np
02:41	SagiCZ	good morning
02:43	tuft	hello
02:43	SagiCZ	How can i design a function with state?
02:45	augustl	SagiCZ: not sure if there's a generic answer to that, other than "use an atom, a ref, or something else" :)
02:45	SagiCZ	augustl: cant expect a better answer to such a vague question.. thank you though
02:45	pyrtsa	By constructing a closure if you really need one. E.g. (let [state (atom {})] (defn stateful [k v] (swap! assoc state k v)))
02:46	SagiCZ	i read that object is a poor man's closure, but at least i understand how object works
02:47	pyrtsa	Closures aren't really mutable. When mutability is what you want, you'll need to use what augustl suggested as the closed-over variables of the closure.
02:48	SagiCZ	pyrtsa: I would like to avoid refs because they are evil right? I might have to analyze my problem deeper though. Maybe it really isnt possible to solve it without states
02:49	pyrtsa	I tend to avoid refs because I can often manage with (a very few) atoms as the application state. But I keep them detached from the functions (and explicitly pass them as arguments).
02:50	SagiCZ	atoms are better than refs?
02:50	pyrtsa	In other words, functions with state aren't my thing.
02:50	SagiCZ	what if you have creatures living in some world, interacting with it, and you need to store their history, experience, fitness.. ?
02:50	pyrtsa	Atoms are simpler. You'd need refs if you need to coordinate transactions of multiple values. Multiple atoms work independently from each other.
02:51	SagiCZ	pyrtsa: coordinate as in concurrently coordinate?
02:51	pyrtsa	I'd have one atom that's the world's state (possibly with its history).
02:51	SagiCZ	pyrtsa: and an atom can be anything right? map, seq, seq of maps?
02:51	pyrtsa	Coordinate as in do things transactionally.
02:51	pyrtsa	Yeah, an atom may contain any single value that you can then replace transactionally.
02:52	SagiCZ	so in the "world state atom" you would have a map of all the creatures with their data as keys?
02:52	pyrtsa	Something like that, yes.
02:52	SagiCZ	sounds reasonable.. i will read up on atoms and refs
02:53	SagiCZ	and is there any reason why most of the functions that deal with atoms have exclamation marks in them? swap!!! ?
02:53	SagiCZ	(doc swap!)
02:53	clojurebot	eval service is offline
02:54	steffen	Using Compojure, I started my webserver locally with (run-server #'app {:port (Integer. 5000) :join? false}). Now it runs. But how do I restart it? how can I interrupt it?
02:54	steffen	i used the repl^^ btw
02:55	pyrtsa	SagiCZ: Because they do side effects (I think).
02:55	SagiCZ	pyrtsa: i see
03:01	justin_smith	steffen: run-server should return a handle you can use to stop said server
03:03	steffen	justin_smith: thank you, I'll try that
03:13	__daniel__	(defn safemap [f x] (if (seq? x) (map f x) (f x))) <-- is there a core function that does this, or something more idiomatic?
03:14	AimHere	That function looks like a category mistake
03:14	__daniel__	i need to map over edn responses, which could be a sequence or a single map
03:14	__daniel__	and assoc/dissoc some values etc
03:15	__daniel__	AimHere: please do teach
03:16	AimHere	Silly joke. Category mistake is an old joke about items being treated in one category when they belong in another one. Your function seems to apply both to sequences of stuff, and to the stuff itself
03:17	AimHere	Erm, not an old joke, some old logical philosopher's idea
03:17	__daniel__	I've just thought that perhaps i could declare a function with multiple arity and type hints? would that be better?
03:18	nobodyzzz	maybe some flatten tricks is suitable here?
03:19	pyrtsa	Isn't flatten very much a category mistake as well? :)
03:19	AimHere	You could multimethod it, particularly if you end up with more types of stuff to handle
03:19	__daniel__	the seq in question will actually be a monger find-maps query result, and the non-seq a single monger entry (map)
03:19	nobodyzzz	pyrtsa, but no if involved =))
03:20	pyrtsa	I tend to need (apply concat xs) much more than (flatten xs).
03:20	pyrtsa	nobodyzzz: There very much is an if inside flatten.
03:21	nobodyzzz	nope, http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.core/flatten/ =)
03:21	__daniel__	can someone give an example of how flatten could help here. my seq is only one level deep
03:21	nobodyzzz	(map f (flatten (list x)))
03:22	__daniel__	nobodyzzz: but wouldnt that return a list with a map in it for the non-seq case?
03:22	__daniel__	i want it to return the map
03:22	pyrtsa	nobodyzzz: I stand corrected. (Though `(filter (complement sequential?) ...)` could count as one.)
03:23	__daniel__	so i'd still need an if to call first on it or something
03:24	nobodyzzz	__daniel__, my code is equivalent of your safemap function
03:24	__daniel__	,(map inc '(1))
03:24	clojurebot	eval service is offline
03:25	__daniel__	would return (1)
03:25	nobodyzzz	(2)
03:25	__daniel__	sorry
03:25	__daniel__	yes
03:25	__daniel__	:)
03:25	__daniel__	my safemap would return (inc 1) i.e. 2
03:25	__daniel__	wouldnt it?
03:25	nobodyzzz	yeap, my fault
03:26	AimHere	Wouldn't it be worse if your sequence was something like '(1 (2 3))? safemap would run f on 1, then '(2 3)' whereas the flatteny thing would run it on 1, then 2, then 3
03:27	__daniel__	AimHere: i think the only two cases im looking at is a sequence of maps, and a single map
03:27	AimHere	I'm not sure what the problem is with the original, to be honest
03:27	justin_smith	~flatten
03:28	AimHere	Using flatten at all, is generally unidiomatic in clojure!
03:28	justin_smith	appears factoids are offline too
03:28	justin_smith	AimHere: right, because it usually indicates a design mistake
03:28	justin_smith	(if not creating one)
03:28	__daniel__	it works, just checking its not a strange way of doing it
03:29	__daniel__	just wondering now why monger returns a seq and not a vector of results
03:29	__daniel__	maybe i have to order it first, and itll put it into a vector?
03:29	__daniel__	are mongo queries not ordered?
03:29	__daniel__	so seq? may have to become vector?
03:31	justin_smith	__daniel__: what about coll?
03:31	justin_smith	oh, coll? returns true for hash-maps too
03:31	__daniel__	and sets, not that that is an issue
03:31	__daniel__	i could use coll
03:31	justin_smith	(complement map?)
03:31	__daniel__	oh wait, no
03:32	__daniel__	sorry :)
03:32	justin_smith	&(map (complement map?) [[] '() {}])
03:32	lazybot	⇒ (true true false)
03:33	Glenjamin	the caller of this function should always know if it has a seq or a single item
03:34	__daniel__	Glenjamin: it does, but how would that help? two functions?
03:34	Glenjamin	just implement the single item conversion
03:34	Glenjamin	then if you have a seq, do (map f coll)
03:34	__daniel__	that means repeating the if multiple times, instead of once
03:34	__daniel__	this is called all over the place
03:34	Glenjamin	no, because you don't need the if anymore
03:35	Glenjamin	your function alrready knows what it has
03:35	__daniel__	Glenjamin: but how do i decide whether to map or not?
03:35	Glenjamin	if you're calling find-maps, you know you have a seq so you need to map
03:36	Glenjamin	unless you have a function which returns either a collection or a single, which is very rare
03:36	justin_smith	Glenjamin: he mentioned monger, sometimes returning a map, sometimes a seq of maps
03:36	Glenjamin	(map make-thing (find-maps db coll))
03:36	justin_smith	Glenjamin: which makes me think monger is a mess
03:36	__daniel__	actually Glenjamin is right
03:37	Glenjamin	(make-thing (find-one db coll))
03:37	__daniel__	find-maps would always return a seq i think
03:37	__daniel__	i knew there was something stupid with this function :)
03:37	__daniel__	category error indeed
03:40	justin_smith	OK, I was going on "i need to map over edn responses, which could be a sequence or a single map"
03:41	Glenjamin	sounds like you need some out-of-band schema information :p
03:41	__daniel__	justin_smith: for some reason i completely overlooked that they are not mixed in the same calling function
03:42	__daniel__	different endpoints
03:42	justin_smith	OK
03:42	Glenjamin	it happens quite a lot, off-by-one on the function extraction :)
03:43	__daniel__	is there a way of mapping over a hashmaps values and calling a function if they are of certain type?
03:44	__daniel__	i have to convert all instances of ObjectId. to str before sending the response, at the moment i have two clumsy ifs
03:44	__daniel__	checking if two keys are present, if they are, do an assoc with str
03:45	Glenjamin	is the key always _id ?
03:45	swi	Hello :) Seems like i not clear understand the clojure program typical flow and think in imperative way. Can someone in pair of words say what clojure typical workflow must be? I.e. program that get from some "input" then process data and then put results to some "output"?
03:45	__daniel__	Glenjamin: one is, the other is user_id
03:45	Glenjamin	ah, right
03:46	Glenjamin	you can use reduce-kv walk map key/vals without having to re-create it
03:48	justin_smith	&(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [k (if (even? v) (inc v) v)]) {:a 0 :b 1 :c 2 :d 3 :e 4}))
03:48	lazybot	⇒ {:a 1, :c 3, :b 1, :d 3, :e 5}
03:49	justin_smith	swi: often there are multiple stages, and in each one you read the previous stage, and create a new one - each of these is immutible and created without modifying the previous
03:49	justin_smith	and each "stage" will be represented by the apropriate datastructure
03:50	mpenet	prismatic schema question: anyone knows how to validate a set with optional values ? ex: can be #{:a :b} or just #{:a} etc
03:50	mpenet	without listing all the combos
03:51	justin_smith	swi: often I think in terms of plumbing - knowing a specific transformation I need, then building the pipes to get the input structure it needs, and to connect it to the input the next stage needs
03:51	__daniel__	justin_smith: thanks, thats nice
03:51	swi	justin_smith: and what about functions? Is it common to write something like (func1 (func2(func3....))) at maximum or beat all things at posibly smaller ones and catch results in def ?
03:51	instilled	anybody knows how to attach sources in clojure eclipse project (counterclockwise) to dependencies? i'm running 0.26.0.STABLE001.
03:52	justin_smith	swi: after about three levels of nesting, you turn (f (g (h x))) into (-> x h g f)
03:52	imperman	swi: it's different - from functional ( http://my.safaribooksonline.com/book/programming/clojure/9781430272311/controlling-program-flow/functional_programming_techniques ) to reactive ( http://blog.paralleluniverse.co/2014/02/20/reactive/ )
03:52	justin_smith	but that's a rule of thumb
03:52	justin_smith	swi: also, using def should not be part of your algorithm, ever
03:52	justin_smith	def is for globals, let is for local bindings that may change on each call
03:53	Glenjamin	at the edge of your system, you need to take input and send output, but inside you can just thread values through functions
03:54	justin_smith	Glenjamin: I think I may use the terms input and output idiosyncratically, but I think of functions all having N inputs and 1 output (plumbing metaphor I mentioned earlier)
03:54	mpenet	ok it was #{(s/enum :a :b :c) ...
03:54	Glenjamin	yeah, i was attempting to refer to system IO specifically
03:55	swi	imperman: thanks for link
03:55	Glenjamin	a good clojure program only deals with external IO at the edges, i would say
03:56	justin_smith	Glenjamin: most of the time system IO is implicit at one end or the other of my task (whether that's ring taking requests and making them arguments, and taking return values and making them responses, or the repl) - I rarely find myself thinking about those boundary layers of my system
03:56	swi	justin_smith: my imperative mind refuse to take it like 'How? We must put input results to some buffer, then take from it in loop and proceed and make new data we want and place it in new buffer" :)
03:57	justin_smith	Glenjamin: right, i/o is state, and we know it adds sanity to localize state to one part of our code
03:57	justin_smith	swi: if you go through http://clojure.org/cheatsheet almost everything on that page takes input data, does some transformation, and returns new data
03:59	justin_smith	the buffering / storage issues are taken care of implicitly (and have nice features like structural sharing and laziness that are already implemented at a language level)
04:00	justin_smith	swi: mind you, this leads to a language that is very liberal with memory usage - you'll never want to use clojure in an embedded system. But if RAM is cheap, given clojure, you get a lot of sanity at a low price.
04:01	swi	justin_smith: yes. i understand all of this pretty functions separated, but then begin to write some simple program and find myself out situation where in -main i have call only one function, and that function calls inside for another (or two) and that functions calls etc. Is it allways like this ? I mean that on program entry point one function, that became a big tree of func.calls ?
04:01	justin_smith	well, normal code uses let for intermediate values
04:01	justin_smith	but yeah, deep call trees are pretty normal in clojure
04:02	justin_smith	(that's part of why our stack traces are notoriously insane also)
04:02	swi	and let just a...em local var inside function ?
04:02	mpenet	swi: it's true for any language, when it's not functions its, objects/methods etc
04:02	mpenet	just easier to follow when it's a simple abstraction
04:02	justin_smith	mpenet: but we nest function calls deeper before you hit the metal, compared to the level of object nesting in sane OO code for example
04:02	hcumberdale	swi: local const :)
04:03	mpenet	justin_smith: arguable, OO can often being quite deep too
04:04	swi	mpenet: well, i mean in imperative code i often use var1 = func1(); var2 = func2(var1) and so on :)
04:04	hcumberdale	I can't imagine that call hierarchies are deeper than in "real OOP"
04:04	mpenet	swi: you can do that in clojure
04:04	justin_smith	swi: (let [a (f1) b (f2 a z) c (f3 a b) ...] result)
04:05	swi	damn.. i was sure i missed something with this let :)
04:06	__daniel__	regarding the announcement of transit the other day, can anyone tell me if this is intended to replace application/edn when communicating between front and backend clj/cljs ?
04:06	__daniel__	i understand it's more for communicating with other languages, clojure/clojurescript being seen as more or less the same
04:07	swi	btw, is http://clojurekoans.com/ a good ?
04:07	Glenjamin	yeah, koans are pretty good, as is 4clojure
04:08	swi	thanks a lot for answers, a little hard to turn mind from declarative way :) But it's fun
04:09	swi	s/declarative/imperative/
04:09	justin_smith	swi: on the contrary, clojure is very much declarative
04:10	swi	justin_smith: i mean go from c/python to FP, sorry :)
04:11	justin_smith	right, those are not declarative languages at all
04:12	swi	well, python have only a little of fp elements like map filter and lambda that i like so try to catch a true functinal language :)
04:12	justin_smith	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarative_programming
04:13	swi	justin_smith: i correct myself a bit higher
04:13	justin_smith	yeah
04:14	justin_smith	sorry, I actually think the declarative language thing is interesting, and like having an excuse to call attention to it
04:16	swi	justin_smith: it's very interesting, even i never will be use i.e. clojure on my work, it's a good way to train brain, learn new ways in programming and just have fun :)
04:17	__daniel__	swi: why would you never use it at work?
04:18	pro_1	swi: there are many other ways to train brain
04:19	swi	__daniel__: i mean 'if' :) Right know as a real try of language i trying to rewrite one of my script that fetch quotes from yahoo :)
04:19	swi	pro_1: sure, but i want somethng pratical thing too :)
04:20	pro_1	Try Calculus, swi
04:20	__daniel__	pro_1: when has calculus last come in handy for you?
04:21	swi	+1
04:21	pro_1	When I calculated when our school will reach certain population
04:22	pro_1	Calculus is everywhere in Economics, physics
04:23	__daniel__	that involved extrapolating a line/curve? solving a quadratic equation?
04:23	__daniel__	calculus is everywhere in economics and physics, i rarely find myself needing it in programming
04:24	justin_smith	__daniel__: try DSP
04:24	__daniel__	i suppose if you are modelling economics or game physics, then you would
04:24	__daniel__	justin_smith: sure, there are plenty of uses for calculus
04:25	justin_smith	it's a basis for a bunch of stuff related to compression, frequency domain transformations, even crypto
04:25	hyPiRion	__daniel__: You may need it to show certain data structure properties too, actually
04:25	__daniel__	it depends what you're doing though, i spend a lot of my time moving coloured boxes around a screen
04:25	hyPiRion	not that many people do it, but there's certainly some strange use cases lying around
04:25	pro_1	I was telling ways to train brain
04:26	__daniel__	i studied physics at university, unfortunately very little of it has been practical
04:26	engblom	Calculus is very useful tool in many situations where "normal" people find a problem unsolvable unless you do a brute force. Think about dropping a loop in a program and instead just get the right answer directly.
04:26	pro_1	When you work as physicist, you might require programming too.
04:26	__daniel__	it comes down to my career choices
04:27	engblom	Especially when it is about finding the optimal value satisfying some requirements calculus is very important.
04:27	pro_1	engblom: surely you don't mean calculus is for normal people
04:27	mpenet	"might", very often it's limited to mathematica/mathlab
04:28	hyPiRion	pro_1: "normal"
04:28	engblom	Sure you could loop over all values and store them in a list and then search that list for the optimal, but that means a huge performance lost
04:28	engblom	pro_1: I think all normal people should know some calculus.
04:29	__daniel__	im just saying that unless you're working in science, it may not be as practical as other things
04:30	__daniel__	including computer science, a lot of programmers end up moving coloured boxes around a browser like i do
04:30	pro_1	Daniel_ unless you are into programming job/study it isn't too practical too
04:30	pro_1	Heh
04:31	swi	apart computer science there is computer engeenering :)
04:32	__daniel__	anyway, calculus is definitely worth learning, mosaic theory and all that
04:32	__daniel__	any knowledge is good knowledge
04:33	swi	certainly
04:33	__daniel__	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_theory_(investments)
04:34	pro_1	When you are learning more and more interdisciplinary; you gonna come up with something good in research
04:34	__daniel__	indeed
04:35	swi	hm, how can i remove old clojure that lein download ?
04:36	justin_smith	swi: are you concerned about disk usage?
04:36	justin_smith	anyway, all the jars lein gets are cached under $HOME/.m2/
04:36	swi	justin_smith: dont like trash :)
04:36	__daniel__	lein clean?
04:37	justin_smith	no, that just cleans your current repo of compilation artifacts
04:37	__daniel__	or does that do something else
04:37	__daniel__	i see
04:37	justin_smith	you can remov ~/.m2/repository/ or some set of directories under that tree
04:38	justin_smith	unless you used lein install, lein will automatically download things to refill it
04:38	justin_smith	so it's a tradeoff of disk usage vs. network bandwidth usage
04:38	swi	justin_smith: i see. a lot of jars there. It's from maven afaiu ?
04:39	justin_smith	swi: it's from wherever people declared their deps to be from. maven central, or clojars are the two huge ones
04:39	swi	i have unlim network, but limited hdd :) only 10g is free and a lot of music must be ripped from my new CD :)
04:39	justin_smith	when you run lein, it tells you where it is downloading from
04:39	swi	justin_smith: btw, where lein repos specified ? i mean defaults
04:39	justin_smith	lein has some default config, but it all depends on project.clj
04:40	swi	~/.leain/project.clj i wrote my own and there only cider
04:40	justin_smith	swi: I mean the project.clj in each project that gets run
04:40	swi	wait
04:41	justin_smith	do you mean ~/.lein/profiles.clj? that is just something that modifies your project's effective project.clj :)
04:42	swi	i mean when run lein search outside any of lein project it' load a lot of indexes, hell, allmost burn my cpu while do this :) And big ones where maven, not clojars
04:43	justin_smith	yeah, if you run lein outside of a project directory, the behavior will be specified by the defaults plus ~/.lein/profiles.clj
04:44	swi	and that defaults hidden somewhere?
04:46	justin_smith	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/leiningen-core/src/leiningen/core/project.clj#L190
04:46	justin_smith	here, I think
04:47	justin_smith	oh, oops "TODO move :repositories here in 3.0"
04:47	justin_smith	anyway, it should be somewhere near there in the source tree
04:48	hyPiRion	swi: what version of Lein are you running? Latest ones have a progress bar for `lein search` (it's quite time consuming first time you run it)
04:48	swi	justin_smith: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/leiningen-core/src/leiningen/core/project.clj#L279
04:48	justin_smith	there we go
04:48	justin_smith	maven and clojars
04:48	justin_smith	as we said before
04:48	swi	justin_smith: find it, thanks :) src is the best docs :)
04:49	swi	hyPiRion: Leiningen 2.4.2
04:49	swi	hyPiRion: yes, second search was very fast :)
04:49	hyPiRion	right, then you should have some download/progress bar on lein search
04:49	hyPiRion	yay!
04:50	swi	yes, but it' was scary how java eat all cpu :)
04:50	justin_smith	swi: well, I'd blame clojure more than java there
04:51	hyPiRion	I'd blame the work to be done, which is not insignificant. Most of lein search is just calls to java libs.
04:52	hyPiRion	Just related to the fact that there are a lot of libraries out there
04:52	swi	at first i was shocked - it's just download damn indexes, why so heavy ?
04:53	mpenet	first run is slow
04:53	mpenet	it dls + builds a lucene index
04:53	mpenet	then it should be fine I think
04:53	swi	so the build, not just download. than ok
04:54	mpenet	well indexing is not slow, it's mostly the downloading I'd guess
04:55	swi	how the hell downloading can eat 100% of 2 cpu cores?
04:55	mpenet	I have no clue, didn't read the source, but my bet it's not a single file
04:55	insamniac	what is your download client?
04:56	insamniac	lein?
04:56	hyPiRion	it's a single file afaik
04:56	mpenet	ah well :]
04:57	insamniac	planned obsolescence. get moar cores.
05:13	swi	insamniac: i think 4 cores is fair enough for downloading allmost everything :) thay can just use curl i.e. to download file :)
05:14	justin_smith	I really doubt lein would be using curl
05:14	visof	helo
05:15	visof	here is my code https://www.refheap.com/88544 and when i'm doing curl -X POST -H "Content-Type: application/json" -d '{"hello" "Visof"}' localhost:3000 i got nothing
05:16	justin_smith	that's not valid json
05:16	visof	but when i change the routes to (POST "/" {body :body} (slurp body)) i got it works
05:17	visof	justin_smith: what do you mean?
05:17	hyPiRion	visof: '{"hello" "Visof"}' → '{"hello": "Visof"}'
05:18	justin_smith	http://jsonlint.com/ try validating it here
05:18	justin_smith	not to say that is guaranteed to be your problem, it was just the first thing I noticed
05:19	visof	hyPiRion: justin_smith i changed it to the valid json but with the same problem i got nothing
05:20	Glenjamin	visof: do you have a ring middleware that parses json in your middlewre stack?
05:27	sveri	Hi, how can convert a string "C" to the char representation in clojure?
05:30	vijaykiran	&&(first "C")
05:30	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: & in this context
05:30	vijaykiran	,(first "C")
05:30	clojurebot	eval service is offline
05:31	vijaykiran	##(first "C")
05:31	lazybot	⇒ \C
05:31	vijaykiran	sveri: kind of a hack ^
05:31	hyPiRion	&(first "X")
05:31	lazybot	⇒ \X
05:31	hyPiRion	,'foo
05:32	clojurebot	eval service is offline
05:32	sveri	thank you
05:44	visof	Glenjamin: no
05:44	Glenjamin	then that's your issue :)
05:45	visof	Glenjamin: so i need to handle the body as json when parse to the handler?
05:50	visof	Glenjamin: have you checked my code? https://www.refheap.com/88544
05:51	augustl	refheap the slow..
05:53	Glenjamin	https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring-json
07:34	__daniel__	"Currently at 1.6.0; top analysts expect this to be followed by newer versions with still higher numbers" :)
07:41	michaelr525	hey
07:42	__daniel__	hey
07:56	boxed	yogthos: isn’t travis supposed to run on PRs?
07:56	boxed	that way I would have avoided this embarrassment :P
07:57	yogthos	boxed: it did, but I figured maybe it was getting confused since the pr itself looked ok
07:58	yogthos	boxed: in any case no worries, everything is looking good now
07:58	boxed	oh.. hmm.. but it didn’t post in the PR?
07:59	yogthos	boxed: it ended up failing here https://travis-ci.org/yogthos/Selmer/builds/30740182
07:59	yogthos	boxed: I guess I should've put more trust in it :)
07:59	boxed	anyway, cool that you accepted it! I think this little trivial lib could really help make sure docs are correct
08:00	boxed	heh
08:00	yogthos	boxed: I definitely find keeping tests in docs up to date a pain, this very much helps
08:00	yogthos	boxed: going to be even more useful for my clj-pdf docs :)
08:00	boxed	I added a funny little hack to support your examples too: (def … :…) :P
08:01	boxed	yogthos: aha, let me give that a shot!
08:02	yogthos	boxed: I noticed that worked, I didn't expect it to, that's a nice touch
08:02	boxed	hmm.. no assertions in the clj-pdf readme though… so midje-readme can only check that the code runs
08:02	boxed	yea I thought so… hoped people wouldn’t get upset about it :P I think it really helps because you see that a lot in example code
08:02	yogthos	boxed: I find that's usually the biggest source of problems, you forget a paren or something
08:03	boxed	yea
08:03	boxed	I really should get back to my project about validating indents vs paren in clojure some day… but getting my first child next week so the chances of that are pretty slim
08:04	yogthos	boxed: oh well congrats :)
08:04	boxed	thanks :P
08:05	boxed	this little two weeks vacation before has really allowed me to jump into clojure which has been fun
08:05	yogthos	glad to hear it, and thanks for making the lib :)
08:06	boxed	glad someone uses something I made :P
08:06	yogthos	:)
08:06	boxed	still think instar is a potentially more useful lib :P
08:08	yogthos	yeah those kinds of transforms do come up often ;)
08:08	CookedGr1phon	Is there a way to output EDN which will guarantee its round-trippability?
08:09	CookedGr1phon	I don't want to find out at read time that somebody's outputted something which doesn't have an appropriate parallel in edn/read-string
08:11	boxed	CookedGr1phon: the brute force approach would be to try to read it with read-string at write time :P
08:11	CookedGr1phon	hrmmmmm
08:12	boxed	KISS and all that :P
08:12	__daniel__	is that even possible? what might not be round-trippable?
08:13	CookedGr1phon	trying the round trip is unacceptable
08:14	CookedGr1phon	and __daniel__, more or less any java object which sneaks in
08:14	boxed	CookedGr1phon: unacceptable why?
08:14	CookedGr1phon	performance
08:15	boxed	you’ve already tried it?
08:15	CookedGr1phon	the old adage of not optimising until you've profiled doesn't really count when it comes to blindly doing more than twice the work you need to in your inner loop
08:16	CookedGr1phon	I'm logging every event which goes through my system and want to guarantee that it's replayable for debugging/testing in the future
08:17	boxed	well you do need to walk the entire syntax in order to guarantee it’s ok.. any other thing would just be a better-than-nothing guess no?
08:18	CookedGr1phon	well what I'm hoping for is some implementation of pr-str which has an option to fail if it can't serialize rather than fall back
08:18	boxed	ah
08:18	__daniel__	CookedGr1phon: ofc, actually i had a similar issue yesterday with mongo ObjectId.
08:18	swi	Am i understand right: loop and recur allmost allways goes in pair ?
08:19	CookedGr1phon	swi: loops tend to have recurs, but you can recur in functions too
08:20	swi	CookedGr1phon: em... can you give a simple example of recur using without loop ?
08:20	hyPiRion	swi: any (semantically sensible) loop has at least one recur.
08:21	hcumberdale	Does anybody know if loom (graph framework for clojure) contains any kind of cycle detection?
08:22	hyPiRion	swi: ##(let [my-non-neg-even? (fn [n] (cond (zero? n) true (pos? n) (recur (- n 2)) (neg? n) false))] (map my-non-neg-even? [1, 4, 5, 10, 80]))
08:22	lazybot	⇒ (false true false true true)
08:22	swi	i.e. https://www.refheap.com/88547 why this comes to stackoverflow ?
08:23	CookedGr1phon	swi: because every time you enter teh next getsum, you're adding a stack frame and never returning
08:23	CookedGr1phon	so instead of calling getsum from within getsum, call recur
08:24	swi	CookedGr1phon: then i get "Can only recur from tail position"
08:24	jcromartie	swi: you need to define getsum with two arities
08:24	pyrtsa	Or rather either (reduce + l) or (apply + l)
08:25	pyrtsa	swi: If you want to keep it recursive, you should guard the recursion with an (if ...) or (when ...).
08:25	hyPiRion	jcromartie: you can't recur on different arities, btw.
08:25	jcromartie	not across arities
08:25	hyPiRion	right
08:27	jcromartie	swi: https://www.refheap.com/88548
08:27	jcromartie	I assume this is an exercise in learning recursion and not trying to write a sum function :)
08:28	boxed	yogthos: well I’m finding a few problems in clj-pfd… and a bug in midje-readme so this seems worthwhile :P
08:28	jcromartie	(def sum (partial apply +))
08:28	yogthos	boxed: most excellent :)
08:28	swi	jcromartie: right, i'm trying to get to recursion idea
08:28	jcromartie	yeah
08:28	jcromartie	well that's a noble cause
08:28	yogthos	boxed: and I gotta jet here, looking forward to a pr in the near future :)
08:28	swi	can't catch it perfectly
08:29	jcromartie	Clojure does it a little differently because "recur" is explicit, whereas in languages like Scheme the tail call optimization is automatic
08:29	boxed	yogthos: shouldn’t be long, I’m at line 912 now :P
08:29	yogthos	boxed: awesome
08:29	swi	jcromartie: hm, so in scheme my definition will be all right ?
08:29	jcromartie	well it's still not tail position
08:30	jcromartie	you need an accumulator to make it tail recursive
08:30	jcromartie	that's what my 2-arity version does
08:30	swi	jcromartie: and loop i.e. allow me to write without two arity
08:31	jcromartie	sure, because you just localize the accumulator to the loop
08:31	swi	so it' just a form of tco, one or another?
08:32	jcromartie	yeah, but it's your responsibility to use "recur" properly
08:33	jcromartie	TCO would really imply that it's automatic
08:33	jcromartie	I think you can say Clojure does not have TCO
08:34	swi	jcromartie: i think i understand better now. Thank you for explanation :)
08:36	hyPiRion	jcromartie: Well, TCL has the tailcall command (like recur), and TCL is considered to have TCO.
08:37	hyPiRion	Clojure certainly optimised away the tail call when you use recur – the difference is that you must explicitly say so in constrast to Scheme
08:39	boxed	another way of putting it is that loop-recur is just a fancy goto :P
08:40	hyPiRion	heh, yeah
08:42	swi	hm, seems like scheme only one that have auto-tco ? :)
08:51	mpenet	not really, on top of my head: lua and haskell both do it
08:52	hyPiRion	ocaml, C, C++, etc.
09:00	simon_	Hello. New to clojure, does anyone know of any library where (= (some-lib "http://domain.com" "/a/path") (some-live "http://domain.com/" "a/path") (some-lib "http://domain.com/" "/a/path")) ?
09:01	jcromartie	str
09:01	jcromartie	oh wait
09:01	jcromartie	I see :)
09:01	swi	:)
09:01	jcromartie	java.net.URL
09:01	simon_	Cool, cheers, Ill check it out.
09:02	hyPiRion	oh wait wait wait
09:03	Glenjamin	is URL the one that makes external http calls in its hashCode method?
09:03	deathknight	Have there been any new guides on making a web app with oauth2 within the past two months?
09:03	hyPiRion	Glenjamin: yes, things may be equal or not depending of whether you have internet connectivity
09:03	rweir	haha no way
09:04	Glenjamin	it normalises the IP address by resolving DNS iirc
09:04	jcromartie	deathknight: I use OAuth2 in my Compojure web app
09:04	jcromartie	java.net.URI is more general purpose
09:04	deathknight	jcromartie: did you follow a guide or tutorial to help you? I'd really like to wrap my head around this. I have made oauth2 calls from the command line and copying+pasting info to/from the browser
09:06	jcromartie	yeah just a minute, have to go do something
09:06	deathknight	grazi
09:06	jcromartie	would be happy to share code etc
09:06	deathknight	:D
09:07	jcromartie	now I might say: just use Friend
09:07	jcromartie	but I can at least show you what I have here
09:07	jcromartie	I didn't use friend
09:07	deathknight	awesome
09:11	mthvedt	deathknight: i’ve been cooking up this library, https://github.com/mthvedt/qarth
09:11	mthvedt	take a look and tell me if it’s useful
09:12	deathknight	looking!
09:12	deathknight	can this be used with facebook graph api? sorry that I'm such a noob
09:13	mthvedt	deathknight: you can use it to grab oauth authorizations for graph
09:13	mthvedt	there aren’t any graph-specific methods or fns
09:13	deathknight	:D
09:15	deathknight	this looks inredible
09:16	deathknight	incredible*
09:16	mthvedt	deathknight: thanks
09:16	mthvedt	i’m trying to deploy the latest snapshot but something broke in my conf, give me a few minutes before trying it out :(
09:16	deathknight	:)
09:17	deathknight	I'm trying to run one of your examples, but lein complains that example is not a task
09:19	mthvedt	deathknight: you’re in the same directory as qarth project.clj? and it’s not working?
09:21	deathknight	woa, interesting. it worked with qarth but it didnt work for clj-facebook-graph
09:26	boxed	mthvedt: I like the new readme!
09:26	mthvedt	boxed: thanks! your feedback was very valuable
09:26	boxed	oh, and the thank you note at the bottom was nice too :P
09:27	boxed	I was a bit worried my mail sounded a bit too harsh there :P
09:27	deathknight	when trying to run an example, i get "Could not find artifact org.scribe:scribe:jar:1.3.6 in clojars (https://clojars.org/repo/)"
09:30	mthvedt	shouldn’t lein be pulling that from maven?
09:30	deathknight	couldnt get it from maven either
09:31	deathknight	also, is my syntax correct here? "$ lein example friend", because that threw "Exception in thread "main" java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate friend__init.class or friend.clj"
09:31	mthvedt	deathknight: scribe 1.3.6 is not in releases :( fixing
09:32	deathknight	:D
09:32	mthvedt	also, lein example qarth.examples.friend is correct. will add to the readme
09:33	deathknight	nice! thank you
09:33	deathknight	that helps so much
09:33	deathknight	sorry for throwing my pre-coffee brain that's in a complete fog
09:33	deathknight	at you
09:34	mthvedt	no problem… usability is very important in a library
09:34	deathknight	clj-facebook-graph has an example.clj file in ~/project-directory/tests/clj-facebook-graph/example.clj...what is the lein command to run that file?
09:34	deathknight	i've been stumped for 3 days ~_~
09:35	mthvedt	probably something along the lines of lein run -m
09:36	mthvedt	hm, it doesn’t have a main
09:36	mthvedt	i think it’s meant to be run from the REPL
09:37	deathknight	would I do (use 'clj-facebook-graph.example) ?
09:37	mthvedt	probably
09:37	deathknight	$ lein example qarth.examples.friend threw this: http://pastebin.com/B33YPEaF
09:40	mthvedt	deathknight: you need to put some keys in test-resources/keys.edn. i think i mentinoed that in the readme
09:40	deathknight	shit man I apologize
09:40	mthvedt	i didn’t really want to distribute my own oauth keys with qarth :P
09:40	deathknight	:D
09:44	jcromartie	putting OAuth keys in a JAR resource is a bad idae
09:44	jcromartie	idea
09:44	jcromartie	it should be configured from outside of whatever you deploy
09:45	jcromartie	i.e. via environment variables or a config file in /etc/
09:45	jcromartie	of course you can always put the config directory on the classpath when you run it
09:45	mthvedt	jcromartie: the keys are not in jar resources
09:46	jcromartie	oh I see
09:46	jcromartie	test-resources
09:46	jcromartie	:P
09:51	deathknight	still can't load keys.edn no matter the values i fill it with
09:52	deathknight	ooooh
09:52	deathknight	ok, so its searching for test-resources/keys.edn
09:52	deathknight	but the file that exists is test-resources/keys-example.dn :)
09:52	deathknight	.edn*
09:54	mthvedt	i should probably change that to keys.edn. the minor problem is that git won’t let you ignore tracked files, risking people commiting their keys accidentally.
09:54	mthvedt	you can configure ignoring tracked files on a per-clone basis
09:55	swi	hmmm... how can i make recur call from anon-function ?
09:55	Glenjamin	mthvedt: if these are test fixtures, could the test runner generate them if missing?
09:55	swi	and anon-function does not have any argument
09:56	clgv	swi: with "recur" as usual
09:56	justin_smith	swi: how would you plan on making recur terminate if there is not argument that changes?
09:57	justin_smith	*is no
09:57	mthvedt	glenjamin: well, i think you need valid oauth keys for facebook, github, &c
09:57	mthvedt	which one would want to keep to one’s self
09:57	Glenjamin	oh right
09:57	Glenjamin	i see
09:57	Glenjamin	i assumed that this was for some sort of server :)
09:58	swi	justin_smith: well, i mean not using recur but make recursion function.
09:58	swi	lazy function.. without end :)
09:58	mthvedt	gpg-agent has stopped working after i put in the wrong password :(
09:59	jcromartie	I have to say I really don't like it when libraries require me to have certain files in the filesystem or on the classpath
09:59	jcromartie	I'd rather be able to configure it from any source
09:59	mthvedt	jcromartie: these are purely for testing
09:59	Glenjamin	i tend to use env vars: FACEBOOK_AUTH_SECRET for eg
09:59	justin_smith	&(take 4 (repeatedly #(+ (rand) (rand)))) ; swi - is this what you have in mind?
09:59	lazybot	⇒ (1.115337555838034 1.4810516083741536 0.5165425022186816 0.48732042702698797)
09:59	mthvedt	qarth makes no assumptions about where the files are, just the test examples load that one file
10:01	swi	justin_smith: yep. and seems i figure out. I need to write not #(...) but (fn somename .... ), right ? so that i can call function by it's name inside
10:02	justin_smith	right, but unless you are producing a lazy sequence (as repeatedly does) you will usually want some argument that controls the recursion
10:03	swi	justin_smith: i'm using lazy-cat there :)
10:03	justin_smith	well there you go, cool
10:04	justin_smith	but calling repeatedly on a function of no args is preferable to doing a manual recursion and lazy-cat with no args
10:05	clgv	swi: calling by name will eat up your stack which is sometimes not preferred (overflow). hence just use "recur"
10:05	justin_smith	clgv: not with lazy-cat
10:06	clgv	justin_smith: lazy-cat? where?
10:06	clgv	justin_smith: oh that last post
10:06	clgv	justin_smith: well it's actually no recursion then ;)
10:07	swi	damn :( not working
10:08	swi	(fn foo [] ...) is right for empty argument function ?
10:09	hyPiRion	yes
10:09	clgv	swi: you'll probably get to your goal faster if you describe your problem and provide some input output examples
10:10	hyPiRion	But calling (fn foo [] ...) only makes sense if you use global mutable state
10:10	deathknight	mthvedt: upon running an example, I get this: http://pastebin.com/U7cGB1Ma. it hangs there and the server doesnt start up
10:10	hyPiRion	using, rather
10:10	simon_	Pardon my ignorance, but is there any easy way to do something like for k, v in {"a": "b", "1": "2"}.iteritems(): [k,v] (python, returns two lists ['a', 'b'] and ['1', '2'])
10:11	clgv	simon_: `for` or `reduce-kv`
10:11	swi	clgv: well, i need to make function returning first N fibonacci numbers :) i know how defn such a functionm but i must put in as anon-function
10:12	justin_smith	swi: then, each iteration should take the previous two numbers as an argument
10:12	clgv	swi: then you need at least a parameter "n" right? ;)
10:12	justin_smith	swi: in fp, you really want all your state to be in the function args
10:12	mthvedt	deathknight: it’s worrisome that the server doesn’t start. i’m not sure what’s up with the slf4j error, but that just has to do with logging and it won’t stop the server from starting
10:13	simon_	Cheers clgv
10:13	deathknight	is it because I switched the scribe dependency to [clj-scribe "0.3.1"]?
10:15	swi	justin_smith: clgv yeees... i think i understand where i was wrong :)
10:15	mthvedt	gpg-agent has stopped working completely after i put in the wrong passphrase too many times, because it thinks ctrl-c is an attempt to put in a passphrase
10:16	mthvedt	i have no idea how to fix whatever happened
10:16	deathknight	lol
10:21	clgv	mthvedt: kill gpg-agent and restart it?
10:33	deathknight	mthvedt: just recloned the project. when running $ lein example qarth.examples.friend_multi, I get "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.Exception: Cannot find anything to run for: [..]/friend_multi"
10:35	mthvedt	deathknight: try lein example qarth.examples.friend-multi
10:35	mthvedt	remember that clojure switches _ and -
10:36	deathknight	oo
10:36	deathknight	danke mucho
10:37	deathknight	sweet jinglies it works
10:38	mthvedt	deathknight: huzzah!
10:52	arrdem	trptcolin: ping
10:52	arrdem	'mornin all btw
10:53	trptcolin	arrdem: sup :)
10:53	trptcolin	that was fast
10:53	arrdem	trptcolin: IRC driven F/OSS dev ftw
10:53	swi	&((fn [a] (take a ((fn f [x] (lazy-cat x (map + (rest (f x)) (f x)))) [1 1]))) 10 )
10:53	lazybot	⇒ (1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55)
10:53	swi	fuuuuuh
10:53	arrdem	trptcolin: TL;DR _DASH_ is a workaround for Jekyll insanity
10:54	jcromartie	anybody seen cgrand?
10:54	jcromartie	http://enlive.cgrand.net/syntax.html
10:54	arrdem	trptcolin: Jekyll claims that /-foo/ isn't a valid dir for whatever reason, so I just went ahead and munged it.
10:54	justin_smith	swi: cool, now do it with memoize :)
10:55	trptcolin	arrdem: yeah, sorry, i’m not too worried about that part - mainly about (a) text-only (no html - which afaik may exist somewhere i don’t know about) and (b) doing search without a js runtime
10:56	trptcolin	dumb client (`slurp`) can just do a GET
10:56	arrdem	trptcolin: so... getting examples as text only is something I have zero support for ATM. There's a branch, I think it's feature/ssg or something, in which I'm experimenting with reworking Grimoire around a trivial Ring/Compojure server rather than Jekyll.
10:57	trptcolin	gotcha. but that’s something you’re open to doing?
10:57	trptcolin	or having someone else do?
10:58	arrdem	due to summer classes I don't have a ton of time ATM, so Grimoire is gonna languish until I no longer feel bad about neglecting my GSoC project, but yeah transitioning to a "real" server and offering a text API is something I'm open too.
10:58	trptcolin	i don’t have the bandwidth to take it on right now but might be able to find someone to lean on around my work :)
10:58	swi	justin_smith: :`( memoize? i'm allmost break my head writing this.. what is memoize ?
10:58	trptcolin	arrdem: awesome
10:58	arrdem	http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.core/memoize
10:59	rkneufeld	Hey arrdem: Have you ever heard of Dash.app on Mac? I was thinking about what it might be like to generate a docset from grimoire to have on my machine.
10:59	swi	arrdem: justin_smith em... i can't use def or defn :)
10:59	arrdem	trptcolin: the one thing I'm trying to do in that experimental branch is FS as a DB. I really really want to keep the existing "contribute via github" model because I don't like working with real databases and having to add worthwhile auth and appropriate editing pages is just gonna be a boatload of overhead.
10:59	justin_smith	swi: you can memoize an fn
11:00	trptcolin	arrdem: cool. i’ll probably wire up whichever of grimoire & clojuredocs has a text-only API first to REPLy
11:01	arrdem	trptcolin: clojuredocs already has a not crap text API. that's actually how I got almost all my examples :P
11:01	trptcolin	oh?
11:01	justin_smith	&(map (memoize (fn [x] (do (println "element" x) x))) [:a :a :b :b :b :a]) swi
11:01	lazybot	⇒ (element :aelement :b:a :a :b :b :b :a)
11:01	clgv	$seen cgrand
11:01	lazybot	cgrand was last seen quitting 4 weeks ago.
11:01	Glenjamin	rkneufeld: it should be trivial to make a dash docset from grimoire
11:01	arrdem	trptcolin: http://api.clojuredocs.org/
11:01	Glenjamin	i've been meaning to try, but haven't yet
11:02	arrdem	rkneufeld: have you read my blog post about the "augmented documentation" strategy I'm taking with Grimoire?
11:02	rkneufeld	Glenjamin: no promises, but I'm going to take a look at the format some time today
11:02	trptcolin	oh you mean json?
11:02	trptcolin	i mean pure text, dumped out as it will be printed
11:02	rkneufeld	arrdem: I've read some of your stuff, not sure if I hit that post though.
11:02	swi	justin_smith: eeemm.. is it fit here http://www.4clojure.com/problem/26#prob-title?
11:02	Glenjamin	http://kapeli.com/docsets#dashDocset seems to make it sound easy
11:02	arrdem	trptcolin: the json API has the code examples string encoded.
11:02	trptcolin	i know
11:02	trptcolin	but dependencies
11:02	arrdem	ah. gotcha.
11:03	arrdem	yeah that's something Grimoire's API is gonna try and do...
11:03	arrdem	both be self-hosting bacause dogfooding and provide raw text
11:03	arrdem	still trying to figure out highlighting.
11:03	trptcolin	cool yeah, think netflix-style API where the server throws down exactly what clients need
11:04	arrdem	rkneufeld: if you want to try and take the Grimore generator and retarget it to build a Dash dataset I'm totally chill with that and I'll help such as I can, but right now screen scraping Grimore is more effort than it's worth and there's no API.
11:05	rkneufeld	arrdem: Will do.
11:05	Glenjamin	if i do it first i'll throw up a PR/issue saying what i did :)
11:06	lduros	hi, I'd like to know what's the current state of native android app development and whether it's viable to use clojure to write quality apps and whether there are production examples
11:06	arrdem	rkneufeld: I'm a little uncomfortable with this because I'm explicitly trying to host an uncondoned but useful superset of the official docs. see andyf's thalia. also type signatures and soforth.
11:06	arrdem	not that I've had the time let alone codebase stability to start copy editing yet..
11:06	lduros	there's a page that dates back from 2011 talking about it: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Android+Support
11:06	Glenjamin	arrdem: uncomfortable with which bit?
11:07	arrdem	Glenjamin: being further officiated by virtue of being "the" Clojure dash documentation set :P
11:07	rkneufeld	arrdem: There actually is an official(?) one alreayd.
11:07	Glenjamin	there's already "the" set in dash, which uses the clojure.github.io one
11:07	rkneufeld	But Grimoire is far more useful to me
11:07	arrdem	okay. that's totally legit
11:08	swi	justin_smith: i will try next day :) thank a lot for help :)
11:18	clgv	arrdem: do you plan to write blog posts about the aot emitter while developing it?
11:19	arrdem	clgv: that's been on my todo list for a while... there'll definitely be a post, probably a paper and maybe a clojure/conj talk about it. right now just trying to get the damn thing working...
11:20	clgv	arrdem: good :) I just thought that maby experiences during development could also be informative for others ;)
11:20	clgv	*maybe
11:26	clgv	arrdem: do you know how complete tools.emitter.jvm is?
11:26	arrdem	clgv: tejvm will do everything except write init classes and classfiles.
11:29	arrdem	I have code to do the latter, the former is really a bug that needs to get fixed at some point.
11:42	gill_	anyone using loom?
11:42	arrdem	have before, what's up?
11:42	gill_	how would I graph a sequence? all the examples are not in a seq
11:43	arrdem	what does that mean? are you asking if you can have an arbitrary sequence as the children of a DAG node?
11:43	arrdem	s/DAG/DG/g
11:44	gill_	like (graph [1 2] [2 3] [0 1] [3 0]) is let's say the example. I want to do (graph ([1 2] [2 3]))
11:44	gill_	passing in a seq returns something I do not expect
11:45	arrdem	(graph '([1 2] [2 3])) should be (apply graph '([1 2] [2 3])) which is (graph [1 2] [2 3])
11:45	gill_	oh okay
11:45	gill_	that makes sense
11:45	gill_	it'd be more ideal to just have graph accept a seq, thanks :D
11:46	arrdem	eh... apply has no performance overhead in this case, so there's no reason to complicate the function logic and change the API to support it..
11:52	ghadishayban	Got some much better invokedynamic performance last night
11:52	arrdem	RFC: api.grimoire.arrdem.com or grimoire.arrdem.com/api/?
11:52	arrdem	ghadishayban: do you have official numbers yet? :P
11:53	Glenjamin	api.
11:53	ghadishayban	should be able to release some stuff to play around with
11:53	ghadishayban	by monday
11:53	Glenjamin	i thought you were doing oxcart stuff :p
11:53	arrdem	sweet!
11:53	teslanick	api.grimoire..
11:53	ghadishayban	I'm avoiding claiming number
11:53	ghadishayban	s
11:53	arrdem	fair
11:54	ghadishayban	but obviously I won't release anything I believe is slower than -master
11:54	ghadishayban	vars and keyword invokes are there already
11:54	ghadishayban	fighting performance on proto invokes
11:55	ghadishayban	it's pretty amazing, Rich put in two fast paths on the bytecode
11:55	mthvedt	deathknight: have you been integrating qarth into the facebook thing you were working on?
11:56	arrdem	api... it is
11:56	deathknight	I havent gotten to that yet mthvedt
11:56	deathknight	Im reviewing shell scripts for the first time >.<
11:56	ghadishayban	the obvious one is invoking the interface on a target object if it has one, and then falling back to looking up through the var+cache
11:58	ghadishayban	but there is a fastpath for objects whose class just got looked up
11:58	mthvedt	deathknight: the examples work fine for you?
11:58	ghadishayban	i added both of those fastpaths, the MethodHandle combinators are pretty slick
11:58	deathknight	havent been able to give it a real go yet mthvedt
11:58	mthvedt	ok no
11:58	mthvedt	np
11:58	deathknight	i'll be sure to be in contact when I do!!!
11:59	deathknight	i;d love to help out in any way to this awesome project
11:59	mthvedt	deathknight: thanks
12:01	mthvedt	debating whether to ANN...
12:01	deathknight	ann?
12:01	arrdem	[ANN] my-osum-project 0.1.0
12:06	mthvedt	i basically only had one user (two now), so i’m reluctant to release, but no other obvious way forward
12:06	mthvedt	i’ll get a burrito then decide
12:09	gzmask	hello everyone :) does any of you know a good static site generator?
12:10	arrdem	there are a couple for Clojure... none that I can say I've used (yet) tho...
12:11	arrdem	rkneufeld: Glenjamin: et all, would user docs of other contrib libraries be something you'd like too see in the future?
12:11	gzmask	I am on the verge of using a static generator or just use cljs :{
12:11	technomancy	gzmask: static site generators don't really take advantage of the strengths of clojure
12:12	gzmask	what's the best bet if I just want a quick way to make a github cv/blog?
12:13	technomancy	I have like a hundred lines of ruby for mine
12:13	arrdem	Jekyll is good for a quick "close enough" one-off... that's what I use for my blog
12:14	arrdem	it works OK for minimal customization, but once you really want to do more than dated posts and a few hand coded static pages it breaks down pretty hard.
12:14	technomancy	which is a great way to prevent yourself from wasting a lot of time on your blog
12:15	TimMc	technomancy: Time much better spent on writing blogging software, yes.
12:16	arrdem	Jekyll will give you syntax highlighting and some other stuff that you could otherwise waste a _lot_ of time getting working more or less out of the box. Jelly Bootstrap is also really nice and packages comments, analytics and some other good stuff as well as some reasonable community themes.
12:16	gzmask	It's very difficult for me to restrain from playing with blogging software too
12:17	technomancy	syntax highlighting is pretty easy if you blog from emacs
12:18	technomancy	M-x htmlize-region
12:18	arrdem	fair
12:19	gzmask	is that if using Emacs might as well just write vanilla html? I am a vim user, but I tried Evil-mode and it's nice.
12:21	technomancy	gzmask: yeah, I write in HTML with a splash of ruby to insert common headers/footers and generate listings. markdown is another popular choice
12:22	gzmask	sounds like you made yourself a generator ;)
12:23	technomancy	as long as it's under 200 lines I don't have a problem with ruby
12:25	gzmask	I wish I can be as practical as you. I pretty much force myself to use clojure for everything these days. And I know this is not right.
12:26	technomancy	well I wrote this before Clojure was released
12:26	technomancy	http://p.hagelb.org/Rakefile.html
12:33	gzmask	arrdem: is Jekyll-Bootstrap stand-alone or it requires jekyll?
12:34	arrdem	gzmask: it's a bunch of template files for Jekyll.
12:34	Glenjamin	arrdem: I think codox etc do a good job of third party libs
12:35	Glenjamin	Adding 3rd parties to grimoire would make them seem blessed in some way, and possibly add undesired maintenance overhead
12:35	Glenjamin	I think
12:35	arrdem	yeah. I'm willing to compete with Clojuredocs for documenting clojure/core since it's relatively inactive ATM, but I think that there's kinda no good reason to take on cross-clj.
12:40	johnwalker	can you have an atom of sets in om?
12:40	johnwalker	i know lists aren't allowed
12:40	ambrosebs	is there a consistent way to great a new instance of a deftype with the same fields as an old one?
12:40	ambrosebs	is there a consistent way to create a new instance of a deftype with the same fields as an old one?
12:41	awwaiid	johnwalker: what do you mean lists aren't allowed?
12:41	technomancy	arrdem: would people set up their own grimoire instances for their own libs?
12:41	clgv	ambrosebs: havent seen anything like it. is there a usecase for deftypes with only final field?
12:42	awwaiid	johnwalker: (def x (atom '(a b c d))) works fine for me
12:42	arrdem	technomancy: https://github.com/arrdem/grimoire/issues/28
12:42	johnwalker	awwaiid: in the context of om
12:42	technomancy	arrdem: dead link to crossclj
12:43	awwaiid	johnwalker: ahhh
12:43	arrdem	technomancy: wha? where?
12:43	arrdem	oh. in the issue.
12:43	Bronsa	arrdem: it's .info
12:43	arrdem	Bronsa: yeah just realized that.
12:43	ambrosebs	clgv: weighing up my options in proxying a deftype to validate it, where the fields themselves can't be immediately checked, like a function argument
12:44	ambrosebs	deftypes are final, so proxying itself is out
12:44	clgv	oh ok
12:44	arrdem	fixed.
12:45	clgv	so you actually want a proxy with additional fields?
12:45	ambrosebs	I don't know if I want additional fields, I want the same fields but they should be wrapped in runtime checks
12:46	ambrosebs	it would be great if (instance? Foo x) was still preserved too
12:46	ambrosebs	but deftype being final pretty much nullifies any chance of that, afaik
12:47	clgv	ah ok. I thought that was a concret use case but you are probably working on that for core.typed?
12:47	ambrosebs	I really do want a proxy tho, since I also want to wrap its methods in checks :(
12:47	ambrosebs	right, the use case is using untyped code from typed code, and preserving type assumptions at runtime
12:48	ambrosebs	and then blaming the correct party when hell breaks loose
12:48	ambrosebs	Typed Racket basically redefines the struct I think
12:49	clgv	humm well, it would be easy to accomplish with arbitrary class generation. we need that macro ;)
12:50	clgv	I have some use cases for that as well ;)
12:50	ambrosebs	what do you mean?
12:51	clgv	I mean a macro like reify, deftype but which does allow you to create arbitray java classes (super classes if needed, interfaces, fields ...)
12:52	clgv	your wrapper would be easily implemented with that
12:53	ambrosebs	genclass?
12:53	ambrosebs	one issue is of course, if I redefine the deftype, all current instances are now outdated.
12:54	clgv	I thought you just define a wrapper?
12:54	clgv	well another option would be the aspect oriented approach, where they modify the bytecode of the class
12:55	clgv	e.g. what they do in AspectJ
12:55	ambrosebs	I want a wrapper with the same name and attributes.
12:55	ambrosebs	effectively
12:56	ambrosebs	yes perhaps that's my next bet
12:56	clgv	ambrosebs: should be possible with the asm lib thats included in clojure
12:57	ambrosebs	oh? not familiar with either
12:57	arrdem	objectweb's asm lib is how clojure does bytecode generation...
12:57	ambrosebs	yes I know that much, not any more tho
12:57	ambrosebs	thanks for the pointer
12:59	ambrosebs	I'm not sure what I want to actually achieve now..
13:00	ambrosebs	I guess I want to proxy a deftype, with the ability to override methods, and preserve (instance? Foo x)
13:01	ambrosebs	a subclass I guess
13:02	clgv	ambrosebs: having to learn the asm lib will be a significant effort, I guess
13:02	ambrosebs	I'm sure
13:03	ambrosebs	but I already agreed to give a conference talk on this..
13:03	ambrosebs	shit
13:03	ambrosebs	;)
13:03	ambrosebs	one way to motivate
13:03	clgv	yeah well, I know how that feels ;)
13:04	clgv	best conferences are those that demand full papers since you can be sure you have the finished content when the slides need to be created ;)
13:07	ambrosebs	I'm planning to write a paper the conference after this, does that count?
13:07	ambrosebs	no time, should look at asm
13:09	clgv	I guess not ;)
13:11	verma	when I specify externs in cljsbuild configs the paths are relative to my project's root right?
13:18	verma	oh, its a compiler parameter :P
13:25	ghadishayban	woo last known bug squashed on invokedynamic protocol calls...
13:26	ghadishayban	I can successfully run & compile our largest app at work on invokedynamic
13:28	clgv	ghadishayban: github link?
13:28	clgv	ghadishayban: you mean using invokedynamic for clojure variables?
13:30	ambrosebs	ghadishayban: congrats!
13:30	tbaldridge	nice!
13:30	Bronsa	ghadishayban: sounds exciting
13:56	SagiCZ1	(doc def)
13:56	clojurebot	eval service is offline
13:57	arrdem	http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.repl/doc
13:58	dmillett	Try tracking accumulated file/line commits (churn) from the command line for a git repository? See 'git-commit-churn' (https://github.com/dmillett/bash-help)
14:01	hiredman	I always forget clojurebot routes services through an openvpn that is vesa mounted on the back of one of my monitors
14:07	dbasch	after a few months of nothing but clojure, coding in ruby feels like typing with my knuckles
14:07	johnwalker	lol
14:09	johnwalker	arrdem: i saw that grimoire got integrated into cider
14:09	johnwalker	is there any way to get the examples in there also?
14:09	arrdem	johnwalker: https://github.com/arrdem/grimoire/issues/53
14:09	johnwalker	nniiiiiiice
14:10	johnwalker	(inc arrdem)
14:10	lazybot	⇒ 34
14:22	arrdem	trptcolin: are you trying to grab a header delimited, terminal appropriate string here?
14:23	trptcolin	yep
14:23	arrdem	herm. yeah as specified there's no way to do that in a single get.
14:24	arrdem	/$VERSION/$NAMESPACE/$SYMBOL/full or maybe /$VERSION/$NAMESPACE/$SYMBOL/index.txt
14:24	trptcolin	right i couldn’t tell if e.g. `/$VERSION/$NAMESPACE/$SYMBOL/` would use “Accept: text/plain” or if they’d actually be different URLs
14:25	arrdem	odds are I won't be arsed to build something sufficiently bright to check headers :P
14:25	arrdem	I think a different file is probably for the best...
14:25	arrdem	it'll just be a server-side concatination of all the other API resources anyway.
14:25	trptcolin	i think the accept header idea is the “right” way to do it but i don’t personally care as long as there’s a way to (slurp URL_HERE) and get the info
14:26	arrdem	hum...
14:26	arrdem	lemme see if there's something I can do to nginx such that I can support the text/plain using only static files. If so I'll do that, otherwise I'll do a standalone file.
14:28	trptcolin	bbloom: really, pencils you have to sharpen?
14:29	bbloom	trptcolin: many good ideas have been had during pencil sharping
14:29	trptcolin	although maybe that’s the trick to why CS was so awesome in the 60s & 70s
14:29	trptcolin	:)
14:29	arrdem	trptcolin: looks like if you hit /foo/ with Type: text/plain, it'll hit index.txt rather than index.html.
14:30	arrdem	so yeah I'll just add that Type: text/plain shall work on the normal symbol root path, and if you ask for text/plain you'll get it.
14:52	Ro_	hello, is there an open source datomic clone?
14:52	TimMc	No.
14:53	TimMc	I mean, there might be some other datalog type stuff out there, but you're not going to find Datomic-the-free-version.
14:54	technomancy	you could write one
14:55	Ro_	:)
14:57	Ro_	technomancy, I am thinking about it :)
14:57	technomancy	cool
14:58	Ro_	The only thing I need to know, what about patents, Do they have it on Datomic?
14:58	bbloom	Ro_: shhh
14:58	bbloom	the last thing you want to do is inquire about patents
14:59	bbloom	knowingly violating patents is worse
14:59	mdrogalis	Licensing battle: Part 2
14:59	mdrogalis	tbaldridge: Please step into the ring. Ding Ding!
14:59	technomancy	Ro_: rule one of software: it violates patents.
14:59	technomancy	there are no exceptions.
14:59	tbaldridge	mdrogalis: not going close to this discussion ;-)
15:00	Ro_	So you are saying it is kind of OK?
15:00	justin_smith	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvDvTnTGjgQ
15:00	mdrogalis	tbaldridge: Smart man :P
15:01	technomancy	hey, at least this time it's not idle complaining
15:01	justin_smith	m'kendiepoppetycorn
15:01	tbaldridge	(inc technomancy)
15:01	lazybot	⇒ 125
15:01	tbaldridge	I'm interested in seeing where it would go just from a programmer standpoint.
15:02	tbaldridge	I mean it only took Rich and Co about 2 years to write Datomic...
15:02	pmonks	(inc justin_smith) ; for swedish chef awesomesauce
15:02	lazybot	⇒ 52
15:02	bbloom	Ro_: http://patents.stackexchange.com/questions/475/does-looking-at-prior-art-searches-pose-a-risk-for-engineers
15:02	arrdem	(inc justin_smith) bork bork bork bork
15:03	arrdem	(inc justin_smith) ; bork bork bork
15:03	lazybot	⇒ 53
15:03	bbloom	weee treble damages
15:03	dbasch	(dec patents)
15:03	lazybot	⇒ -2
15:03	tbaldridge	dbasch: you can't do that, dec is patented
15:04	dbasch	(inc sue-me)
15:04	lazybot	⇒ 1
15:04	tbaldridge	anyone else remember this gem? https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110102/15363912492/ibm-files-patent-patent-trolling-it-may-be-too-late.shtml
15:04	justin_smith	technomancy: "Third, sometimes parties are sued for inducing infringement -- i.e., encouraging someone else to infringe." uhoh
15:05	dbasch	some country should sue the US for infringing their patent on patent laws
15:05	arrdem	"Cognitect vs. #Cloure et. all"
15:05	justin_smith	heh
15:06	Ro_	P.S. I am not from US ;)
15:07	technomancy	Ro_: lucky you!
15:07	dbasch	Ro_: oh, then you’re never going to get sued by a US company. US companies are extremely mindful of borders.
15:07	arrdem	lol
15:07	Ro_	So I am kind of "safe" :D
15:08	aperiodic	and there are certainly no trade agreements extending the domain of the US's patent & IP systems
15:08	turbofail	careful, sarcasm is patented now too
15:08	bbloom	dbasch: maybe they don't have sarcasm in his country
15:09	Ro_	I know there was such a talk, but could you tell me once more: why Rich Hickey did not enforce Datomic opensource?
15:09	TimMc	What if their country has defined "patents" as "a type of fish"? That should protect them.
15:09	dbasch	bbloom: I just exported it then :)
15:10	technomancy	Let's weaponize sarcasm.
15:10	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: hey there
15:10	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: https://38.media.tumblr.com/cc047915ad3d725e2d96e09cc1f5433f/tumblr_n83ikzjgiV1qak4ico1_400.gif
15:10	TimMc	dbasch: gasp You're in contravention of the Export Administration Regulations!
15:10	bbloom	technomancy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsW9DO1k5-s
15:10	dbasch	TimMc: no, it’s only 32-bit sarcasm. I wouldn’t do 128-bit on irc.
15:10	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: ouch
15:10	TimMc	ah, phew
15:10	arrdem	dbasch: dude utf8 supports multiword sarcasm
15:11	Ro_	Every time I come to Clojure channel I am glad that the Clojure community is so nice :)
15:11	tbaldridge	Ro_: I'm trying to find you a point in a talk where Rich answers that
15:11	Ro_	ok, thx
15:12	arrdem	#clojure is pretty good about grousing politely
15:12	justin_smith	arrdem: you take that back, jackass
15:12	arrdem	(dec justin_smith)
15:12	lazybot	⇒ 52
15:12	arrdem	(dec so)
15:12	lazybot	⇒ -32
15:13	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: I am originally java programmer and I have a problem expressing myself in functional language.. how do you go about preserving states when you need to? Example: Let's have a group of creatures who interact with their environment and save some data about it, or just save the history of their actions right? How would I save that and access? For now, each creature is represented by one function object i guess.. Can I avoid
15:13	tbaldridge	Ro_: http://youtu.be/FOQVWdG5e2s?t=38m38s
15:13	technomancy	one of these days so is going to change his nick and we're not going to notice; we'll just keep on dec-ing him out of tradition.
15:13	technomancy	http://p.hagelb.org/tradition.jpg
15:14	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: a common pattern is to make a function that takes "state" as its argument, then returns an updated version of the state. The hard part is not preserving the state (it is immutible after all), it is about propagating the updated one.
15:15	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: yeah, i guess what i meant by "preserving" should be called "updating" .. so passing it in and out.. interesting
15:15	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: also, pragmatically we have things like atoms and ref with safe update behaviors
15:16	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: and what is the communities stance on them? are they necessary evil for corner cases or normal part of everyday use?
15:16	justin_smith	but that is needed only rarely (maybe in one place in a huge lib), mostly you can use function arguments / return values to propagate
15:16	Ro_	technomancy: Rich does answer the question :D
15:16	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: so that answers that
15:16	justin_smith	I am sure other developers here will weigh in on how often they use an atom or agent or whatever to coordinate state
15:16	SagiCZ1	feel free to chip in guys
15:17	TimMc	arrdem: So, you really find it so bad? For me it's only so-so.
15:17	arrdem	har har har
15:17	tbaldridge	atom almost all the time, I haven't used agents since core.async came out
15:17	TimMc	/nick har
15:17	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: another thing to consider is that if in some library you define an atom that holds library state, you are limiting the user to only one state for the library in their entire app - if it is an argument that is propagated, they can use the library in different places without interference
15:18	tbaldridge	but yeah, arguments over atoms
15:18	brunov	SagiCZ1: for an illustration of what justin_smith just said, take a look at how Clara handles its session state in an immutable manner https://github.com/rbrush/clara-rules
15:18	technomancy	Ro_: is it because his efforts to fund-raise through donations went badly?
15:18	TimMc	SagiCZ1: refs are amazing but basically no one uses them. :-)
15:18	brunov	each function accepts a state object as first argument and returns a modified version
15:18	TimMc	They're a gateway drug.
15:20	arrdem	is there a writeup somewhere of compojure's route formatting? I'm not seeing one right off.
15:20	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: remember how i talked about "creatures" lets say I each of them runs some calculations and I want each "creature" to have its own thread. Is it still achievable without refs, or I need them to collect the "creatures" data? I hope you its not too abstract.
15:20	Ro_	technomancy: Nope.
15:20	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: this sounds very similar to how agents work
15:21	Ro_	technomancy: Rich "I have a kind in college"
15:21	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: with an agent, you start it out with a value, then you send it functions that update that value
15:21	Ro_	:)
15:21	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: "agent" would be even more precise name for my creatures, because they would be trading agents.. so agents are a thing in clojure
15:22	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: but there are multiple ways to do this. Each creature could be a core.async go block that reads perterbations from a channel, and responds by sending messages to other creatures via channels
15:22	TimMc	SagiCZ1: Careful, "agent" is an overloaded word.
15:22	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: or all the creatures could be in a map, with another map describing their relationships or interactions
15:22	SagiCZ1	TimMc: Yes I realize that
15:22	Ro_	Do you know any papers on Datomic which could help me to clone the "stuff"?
15:23	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: one thing someone recommended earlier was to hold a map with the creatures as keys and their data as values and update that map somehow (it would be ref map)
15:23	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: with the map representation, you would have a state updater that walks through and propagates one "tick" of updates for all creatures
15:23	justin_smith	would not have to be a ref map
15:23	justin_smith	it could be a function that takes the creature map as input, and returns an updated map
15:24	katratxo	Ro_: http://tonsky.me/blog/unofficial-guide-to-datomic-internals/
15:24	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: and can multiple alter the same map at once? (if they are in different threads)
15:24	justin_smith	the storage could be in a ref, could just be a question of passing the map back into the function again, could be persisted to a db or edn file...
15:24	Ro_	ty
15:25	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: the map is immutible, if you want parallel processing you could split up the processing per key in the updater function, or make it a reference type (atom, ref, datomic data, whatever) and then coordinate the updates
15:25	justin_smith	even with a mutable reference type, the map inside is immutible, because maps just are
15:26	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: I see.. well I won't pretend to know exactly how to do that, but I am glad to hear that its very possible. I will learn more about clojure first though.
15:28	bbloom	,((fn [x] {:pre (pos? x)} x) -5) ; ouch
15:28	clojurebot	-5
15:28	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: one of Rich Hickey's clojure talks is about simulating a colony of ants via parallel updates
15:28	bbloom	,((fn [x] {:pre [(pos? x)]} x) -5)
15:28	clojurebot	#<AssertionError java.lang.AssertionError: Assert failed: (pos? x)>
15:28	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: yeah i was impressed by that
15:28	bbloom	i guess both pos? and x are true....
15:29	justin_smith	bbloom: yeah, that hit me a few times before I knew what I was doing
15:29	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: easy concurrency is why I chose clojure for my project over java
15:29	schmee	heyo, I have a quick question about sockets
15:29	schmee	I connect to a server and then spawn a thread with that socket to listens to messages from the server
15:29	justin_smith	bbloom: what would the patch do? complain if the pre arg is not a callable?
15:30	PigDude	mmm i'm getting chicken korma from the indian place by me while i work on some korma stuff
15:30	schmee	but calling `read` on the reader just keeps spitting out nil, is there any way to make it block until it receives a message?
15:30	bbloom	justin_smith: require the conditions be a vector
15:30	justin_smith	bbloom: cool
15:33	hiredman	schmee: read on a Reader cannot return nil
15:33	hiredman	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/io/Reader.html#read%28%29
15:35	hiredman	unless by read you mean clojure.core/read which works on pushbackreaders, and can return nil, and certainly does block
15:37	schmee	hiredman: strange... here's the function in question: https://gist.github.com/schmee/522e29e355428a627fe2
15:38	hiredman	I would expect that to throw an exception
15:39	schmee	I spawn the thread with `(doto (Thread. #(listen sock)) (.start))
15:39	schmee	`
15:39	justin_smith	yeah, read on an io/reader always fails when I do it (it is only thanks to my stupidity that I have tried it so often)
15:39	hyPiRion	schmee: you're using read, you want .read.
15:39	hiredman	,(doc read)
15:39	clojurebot	"([] [stream] [stream eof-error? eof-value] [stream eof-error? eof-value recursive?]); Reads the next object from stream, which must be an instance of java.io.PushbackReader or some derivee. stream defaults to the current value of in. Note that read can execute code (controlled by read-eval), and as such should be used only with trusted sources. For data structure interop use clojure.edn/read"
15:40	hiredman	^- takes a pushbackreader and reads a clojure form
15:40	hiredman	schmee: depending on your setup stacktraces maybe being printed to random places where you might not be looking
15:41	schmee	hiredman: can I wrap it in a try catch or something?
15:41	hiredman	sure
15:42	hiredman	consider using a future instead of manually starting a thread
15:42	bbloom	justin_smith: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1473
15:43	schmee	hiredman: I will, I was going to ask here when I'm finished with code if it can be made more "clojure-y" :)
15:44	schmee	thanks everyone for the suggestions, I'll try them out!
15:44	justin_smith	bbloom: nice
15:47	justin_smith	schmee: regarding idiomatic clojure, instead of while / checking an atom, you could loop/recur with a check that looks for your termination condition
15:47	justin_smith	since the atom is bound in that let block, you clearly are not using it to detect a condition coming from another thread
15:49	schmee	I'll do that, thanks. I've just randomly copypasted the conditions in a lot of places since I don't need them atm, so it probably doesn't work the way it should :P
15:49	pandeiro	anyone have experience testing reactjs apps using clj-webdriver? i am new to selenium and not sure if DOM tests operate against a page's initial HTML or the actual DOM environment in memory
15:50	gzmask	is there any interesting clojurescript eco-system news website out there?
15:50	dbasch	justin_smith schmee: in that snippet there is no termination condition, the atom is completely unnecessary
15:51	dbasch	the “running” binding, for that matter
15:51	justin_smith	dbasch: indeed, but I assumed in some future version there would be a termination condition
15:51	schmee	yep
15:52	justin_smith	and I think conditional recur is more idiomatic than an atom as sentinel
15:52	dbasch	justin_smith: of course
15:53	mmitchel_	is there a way to convert a record into a plain hash-map?
15:54	hiredman	(into {} ...)
15:54	mmitchel_	ahh perfect
15:54	mmitchel_	thanks hiredman
15:56	mkrlearner	Quoting doesn't work for ^ symbol. Any specific reason for that?
15:56	mkrlearner	user> '(1 2 3 a b c ^) RuntimeException Unmatched delimiter: ) clojure.lang.Util.runtimeException (Util.java:221)
15:56	justin_smith	^ is read time
15:57	mkrlearner	I want a list of mathematical symbols like +, -, *, /, ^ (for power), and I am not able to make one :(
15:58	tbaldridge	mkrlearner: ^ is a special symbol that attaches metadata
15:58	tbaldridge	, (meta ^{:doc "foo"} {})
15:58	clojurebot	{:doc "foo"}
15:59	justin_smith	,(symbol "^") it's possible to put it in a symbol, but it's hacky and not very usable
15:59	clojurebot	^
15:59	Zekka	Have you considered **?
15:59	mkrlearner	I am changing it to ** right now.
15:59	tbaldridge	or pow
16:00	SagiCZ1	tbaldridge: what are metadata for?
16:00	tbaldridge	SagiCZ1: lots of stuff, for example line numbers and the like
16:00	tbaldridge	,(meta '(+ 1 2))
16:00	clojurebot	nil
16:00	mkrlearner	Yeah I get it. I thought quote would take lower precedence than metadata.
16:00	tbaldridge	or not in that example
16:01	tbaldridge	,(meta #'conj)
16:01	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name conj, :added "1.0", :file "clojure/core.clj", :static true, ...}
16:01	tbaldridge	,(keys (meta #'conj))
16:01	clojurebot	(:ns :name :added :file :static ...)
16:01	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: we use it to attach documentation to vars, to differentiate macros from functions, to mark the type as a guide to the compiler... all sorts of things
16:01	tbaldridge	bleh, nevermind, but lots of stuff in there
16:02	mkrlearner	metadata is the only way to add additional info to a data-structure without compromising its equality semantics.
16:04	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: thanks :)
16:04	SagiCZ1	btw.. i wanted to register my nick to freenode.. it for some reason added "1" to it.. why?
16:09	arrdem	anyone care to recommend mustache or some other HTML string templating engine?
16:10	arrdem	tbaldridge: quiet you
16:10	schmee	any way to reset the REPL without restarting it? to get rid of all the state
16:10	tbaldridge	arrdem: just start a emacs/vim war while your at it...
16:10	tbaldridge	:-D
16:10	technomancy	wasn't templating the original bitemyapp rant topic before he learned haskell?
16:10	TimMc	tbaldridge: Nonsense, it's ed vs. nano.
16:10	arrdem	technomancy: yep, and it was the last rant I got from him before we stopped hanging out.
16:11	TimMc	technomancy: I used to rant about it too. Then I finally figured out how to use enlive.
16:11	technomancy	I've only used hiccup, and I love it, but I understand there are situations for which it's inappropriate
16:12	arrdem	I've just already got a boatload of liquid template files which are near mustache and I'd rather not retype all of them in hiccup which is otherwise my Clojure HTML preference.
16:12	hyPiRion	technomancy: I'm pretty sure he learned Haskell before that
16:12	technomancy	well, before haskell destroyed him anyway
16:12	arrdem	well there's already a liquid implementation for Clojure...
16:12	augustl	is there a way to do int r; while ((r = doARead()) != 1) { thing.update(bfr, 0, r) } in clojure?
16:16	hyPiRion	augustl: (loop [r (doARead)] (when (not= 1 r) (. thing (update bfr 0 r)) (recur (doARead)))) ?
16:16	augustl	it's a bit annoying to have to repeat the doARead :)
16:18	hyPiRion	(doseq [r (take-while (comp not neg?) (repeatedly #(doARead)))] (. thing (update bfr 0 r)))
16:18	TimMc	heh
16:20	teslanick	I wonder...
16:20	teslanick	,(apropos #".*")
16:20	clojurebot	(primitives-classnames +' decimal? restart-agent sort-by ...)
16:21	teslanick	Awesome! Just discovered apropos, didn't think clojurebot would let me use it for some reason.
16:26	technomancy	thank goodness for print-length
16:27	justin_smith	teslanick: there is also (all-ns) and (ns-publics 'some-ns)
16:40	arrdem	tbaldridge: Grimoire had better count against my GSoC work :P
16:54	verma	are the clojure stickers here [1] opaque? [1] http://clojure.org/swag
16:55	verma	anyone have them?
16:55	hiredman	they are
16:57	hiredman	(assuming they are the same stickers they hand out at the conj)
16:57	verma	aw man, I want the mac's apple light to go through the sticker, like translucent would be awesome
16:57	technomancy	lein stickers are translucent
16:57	technomancy	just sayin'
16:58	verma	technomancy, are there available somewhere? or where did you get them made?
16:59	verma	oh accepted patch gets you a sticker :)
16:59	technomancy	verma: if you make a contribution to lein that's accepted, you can get a sticker.
16:59	technomancy	I forgot where I got them
16:59	justin_smith	technomancy: I know you don't mean it that way, but that just sounds so gradeschool condescending
17:00	technomancy	hah
17:00	justin_smith	"oh, a patch? for me? have a sticker" headpat
17:00	llasram	Well, maybe if the sticker were automatic
17:00	hyPiRion	justin_smith: Would a golden star be better?
17:00	augustl	hyPiRion: ah, nice one (almost 1 hour ago)
17:00	llasram	But since you then have to ask for the sticker... It's more like "Here's patch. So.... sticker? Eh?"
17:00	ghadishayban	I love this UnwarrantedOptimismException http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk9/jdk9/nashorn/file/49d7a2a66ae6/src/jdk/nashorn/internal/runtime/UnwarrantedOptimismException.java
17:01	technomancy	llasram: so... require a mailing address before accepting any patches? =) where have I heard that before?
17:01	llasram	lol
17:02	verma	I can get clojure stickers made right, no problems with that, I would think
17:02	hiredman	this channel is not really the place to ask
17:03	TimMc	verma: There is probably a trademark or copyright on that logo.
17:03	hiredman	there is
17:03	verma	TimMc, hmmm
17:03	llasram	tradecopymarkright
17:03	technomancy	possibly even a patent
17:03	arrdem	that Grimoire and a bunch of other Clojure resources infringe on..
17:05	hiredman	бизнес methods for logo design
17:06	TimMc	technomancy: "A method for combining yin-yang and lambda symbols."
17:14	augustl	I can't seem to figure out how to call http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/nio/file/Files.html#readAttributes%28java.nio.file.Path,%20java.lang.Class,%20java.nio.file.LinkOption...%29
17:15	augustl	(Files/readAttributes (.toPath pic-file) BasicFileAttributes) fails with java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method: readAttributes
17:15	hiredman	… means array
17:15	Fare	what's the simplest way to test whether an object is a Java byte array [B ?
17:16	augustl	hiredman: so I need to pass an empty array?§
17:16	hiredman	no
17:16	hiredman	yes
17:16	augustl	:)
17:16	hiredman	is what I meant
17:16	hiredman	:)
17:16	trptcolin	Fare: (= (Class/forName "[B") …)
17:17	Fare	I can (= (type x) (type (byte-array []))) but that's somewhat ugly
17:17	Fare	trptcolin, thanks
17:17	Fare	same thing, I suppose
17:17	Fare	your being slightly cleaner
17:17	justin_smith	,(= "[B" (.getName (class (byte-array (map byte [0 1 2])))))
17:17	clojurebot	true
17:18	Fare	justin_smith, I think that's slightly worse, actually
17:18	augustl	hiredman: (Files/readAttributes (.toPath pic-file) BasicFileAttributes (make-array LinkOption 0)) works wonders :)
17:19	dbasch	Fare: a ref? that’s ugliest
17:19	Fare	BTW, what does declare do? Apparently not enough for me, possibly because I'm passing the forward-referenced function as parameter while buidling a data structure
17:19	Fare	(the data structure being a monadic parser)
17:20	Fare	in the end, I ended up coding my own variant of declare, that binds the ref to a function that consults the ref at a later time to the the actual value
17:21	mthvedt	Fare: declare makes an unbound var
17:22	Fare	OK
17:22	mthvedt	not quite understanding why one would need an “earlier” late binding
17:23	Fare	(declare-forward f) (def g (wrap f)) (def f (wrap-differently g))
17:23	dbasch	Fare: do you really mean ref or do you mean var?
17:23	Fare	dbasch: I'm not sure
17:23	dbasch	Fare: if you’re not sure, you probably mean var
17:23	Fare	probably mean var
17:24	Fare	yes, I use var-get
17:24	Fare	(defmacro def-forward [& names] `(do ~@(map #(do `(defn ~% [~'σ] ((var-get #'~%) ~'σ))) names)))
17:24	Fare	(they are all functions of one argument)
17:25	Fare	(monadic parsers)
17:34	hugod	In an om render function, can you render multiple nodes, or just a single node (with children)?
17:36	mthvedt	fare: you’re binding vars to fns that get themselves?
17:36	mthvedt	how does that work
17:36	Fare	mthvedt, the function is defined later.
17:37	Fare	the early binding is to use the late binding
17:37	mthvedt	so you’re referencing the fn earlier, but calling it later?
17:37	Fare	yes
17:38	danielcompton	so top level packages are frowned upon?
17:38	justin_smith	danielcompton: yeah, definitely
17:38	Fare	maybe I could simplify in (declare f) (def f [n] (f n)) ? or would that be simplified in a recur?
17:41	mthvedt	fare: clojure looks up bindings each time a var is invoked
17:41	mthvedt	it relies on the JVM to optimize away most of the lookups
17:44	Fare	so, maybe `(do (declare ~f) (def ~f (fn [~'x#] (~f ~'x#)) ?
17:45	mthvedt	i think that would work
17:45	mthvedt	you don’t need to quote unquote the x#
17:45	mthvedt	in fact just make it a defn
17:46	danielcompton	justin_smith: ztellman gets to be the exception?
17:46	ztellman_	I get to be what?
17:46	talios	'lo danielcompton
17:46	danielcompton	top level package
17:46	bbloom	Fare: you know you can give functions names without def, right?
17:46	danielcompton	publisher
17:47	hiredman	danielcompton: what do you mean by top level package?
17:47	ztellman_	oh, top-level packages are bad because they're not easily consumable by other stuff
17:47	Fare	bbloom, and pass them as parameters to other functions?
17:47	ztellman_	though the new Clojure Java API stuff pretty much sidesteps that
17:47	bbloom	Fare: yeah
17:47	danielcompton	from http://i.imgur.com/Ue9xWJn.png
17:48	bbloom	,((fn add [x y] (if (zero? x) y (recur (dec x) (inc y)))) 5 10)
17:48	clojurebot	15
17:48	danielcompton	arrdem commented about top level packages, I assumed he meant 'judo-notes.handler'
17:48	danielcompton	Isn't that a top level package?
17:48	technomancy	no
17:48	bbloom	,((fn f [] f))
17:48	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval51$f__52 sandbox$eval51$f__52@a0187c>
17:48	bbloom	Fare: see?
17:48	hiredman	danielcompton: please use a pastebin for sharing text instead of screenshots
17:49	danielcompton	hiredman: I was copying a screenshot published last night in the #clojure channel
17:49	hiredman	:/
17:49	bbloom	what declare really does is it puts an "unbound" var entry in to the mutable namespace map... then when the compiler sees some symbol x, it first looks up x in locals, then if not found, looks it up in the namespace mappings
17:49	bbloom	in the former case, a vm stack operation is generated
17:49	hiredman	danielcompton: I have no idea what he was refering to by top level package there
17:49	bbloom	in the latter, an invoke is generated to deref on the var
17:50	mthvedt	bbloom: i think he wants to have the var bound to a fn he can pass in to some parser combinators, and that fn looks up the “real” binding later
17:50	Fare	mthvedt, yes
17:50	danielcompton	ztellman_: is lamina a top level package for example?
17:50	ztellman_	danielcompton: no
17:51	bbloom	Fare: to what end? mutual recursion? or something else?
17:51	ztellman_	unless we're using a different definition
17:51	Fare	yes, my tweaked definition works.
17:51	ztellman_	it's lamina.core, lamina.executor, etc
17:51	hiredman	danielcompton: I recommend not using the namespace part stuff like (judo-notes [model :as model]) and just do [judo-notes.model :as model], and use [] instead of () for requires
17:51	ztellman_	my primitive-math library, though, is just 'primitive-math'
17:51	Fare	yes, mutual recursion between two grammar non-terminals
17:51	bbloom	Fare: and is each non-terminal defined as a top level?
17:51	Fare	each non-terminal has a corresponding monadic parser
17:51	Fare	yes
17:51	danielcompton	hiredman: it wasn't my code but thanks
17:52	mthvedt	bbloom: parser combinators are usually defined with higher-order fns
17:52	mthvedt	you have fns that make fns that mutually recurse
17:52	bbloom	mthvedt: right, but i'm not sure where he needs the mutual recursion
17:52	hiredman	danielcompton: there is nothing that is called a "package" in clojure so when you say "top level package" everyone has to guess what you mean by package
17:52	mthvedt	it’s a general case for parser combinators
17:52	hiredman	danielcompton: in this case ztellman is guessing you mean namespaces
17:52	ztellman	it's what namespaces are called in Java
17:52	hiredman	toplevel is also a problem, because there is no explicit hierarchy in clojure namespaces
17:53	bbloom	Fare: is your grammar open for extension? or closed?
17:53	mthvedt	a parser generator that can’t conveniently mutually recurse would be kind of gimped
17:53	bbloom	Fare: ie is the set of non-terminals known and finite?
17:53	hiredman	er
17:53	Fare	closed for now, but I'm wondering about the best way to make it extensible later
17:53	hiredman	implicit I guess
17:53	bbloom	so if it's closed, you can just use letfn
17:53	hiredman	anyway, they are non-hierarchical
17:53	bbloom	but you won't get any vars for use from the outside
17:54	Fare	I can't use letfn when most definitions are not (defn foo [x] ...) but (def foo (&combine bar baz))
17:54	hiredman	ztellman: it is a similar construct in java, common lisp also has a similar kind of thing called a package
17:54	bbloom	Fare: ah ok, yeah, there's no general letrec construct
17:54	danielcompton	hiredman: I'm referring to arrdem's comment in http://logs.lazybot.org/irc.freenode.net/%23clojure/2014-07-23.txt at 22:28:22
17:54	danielcompton	I was reading through the logs this morning and was trying to understand what he eant by that
17:55	hiredman	danielcompton: he is talking about maven depedency coordinates
17:55	Fare	I suppose I could eta-convert to avoid some of that... but that's about the same result, isn't it? This way I only eta-convert 9 forward-referenced functions.
17:55	hiredman	danielcompton: which are totally different from clojure namespaces
17:55	Fare	but yeah, to make it extensible, I might need to eta-convert everything, at which point a simple a simple (declare ...) would be enough
17:55	bbloom	Fare: you just need to forward declare one function from every mutually recursive group
17:56	hiredman	danielcompton: and are not packages either, the coordinates are made up of a [group-id/artifact-id version-string]
17:56	bbloom	Fare: do you want an extensible set of non-terminals, or do you want an individual non-terminal to be extensible?
17:56	bbloom	ie add an alternative to some production
17:56	hiredman	in lein/clojure it is pretty common to use the same thing for both group-id and artifact-id so lein shortens that to just [artifact-id version-string]
17:56	mthvedt	i like the general solution—it is simple and avoids annoying refactoring later
17:57	Fare	bbloom, yup, I only have 9 forward references out of ~79 named non-terminals
17:57	danielcompton	hiredman: thanks. Next question, is it ok to write projects without a fully qualified namespace, e.g. rummy instead of net.danielcompton/rummy
17:57	danielcompton	hiredman: *?
17:57	hiredman	that is not a namespace
17:58	danielcompton	sorry, I mean project naming
17:58	hiredman	sure
17:58	Fare	I think that for now I'm considering leaving the grammar not extensible, and have the same extension points as macropy
17:58	bbloom	Fare: you can "extend" a previous var something like this: (def foo (...)) .... (def foo (add-alternative @#'foo bar))
17:58	hiredman	I assume you are talking about what you pass to lein new when creating a project
17:59	Fare	(though with a different ast structure: the official python ast looks really really misdesigned)
17:59	bbloom	Fare: the @#' is just (deref (var ...))
17:59	bbloom	which lets you capture the old value
17:59	hiredman	lein new foo/bar will create a new project with the group-id foo and the artifact-id bar, and will generate a namespace foo.bar in the file src/foo/bar.clj
18:00	hiredman	lein new foo will create a new project with the group-id foo and the artifact-id foo, and will generate a namespace foo.core in the file src/foo/core.clj
18:00	mthvedt	fare: curious, what are you building? are you using a library?
18:00	bbloom	Fare: but if it were me, i may consider not defining non-terminals as vars, but rather as keywords
18:00	Fare	bbloom, yes, but currently I need to recompile the entire grammar every time I do a change, because the uses of a non-terminal in a combinator defining another non-terminal are eagerly bound.
18:00	hiredman	now generally it is frowned on the have single segment namespaces like (ns foo) which is what everyone assumed you were asking about when you asked about top level packages
18:00	Fare	mthvedt, I've made very light use of algo.monads
18:01	hiredman	~namespaces
18:01	clojurebot	namespaces are (more or less, Chouser) java packages. they look like foo.bar; and corresponde to a directory foo/ containg a file bar.clj in your classpath. the namespace declaration in bar.clj would like like (ns foo.bar). Do not try to use single segment namespaces. a single segment namespace is a namespace without a period in it
18:01	Fare	but ended up only using variants of the state monad, with my own extensions
18:01	technomancy	danielcompton: don't use common nouns for unqualified project names
18:01	bbloom	Fare: you can simply write #'foo to get late binding... vars are callable!
18:01	bbloom	,(defn foo [] :old)
18:02	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
18:02	hiredman	I have bought domains on impluse because it seemed like they would be a cool group-id for a project
18:02	danielcompton	technomancy: that's what I was trying to work out. So something like lamina would be ok, but light would be frowned upon?
18:02	bbloom	,(def a (comp vector foo))
18:02	clojurebot	#'sandbox/a
18:02	bbloom	,(def b (comp vector #'foo))
18:02	clojurebot	#'sandbox/b
18:02	bbloom	,(a)
18:02	clojurebot	[:old]
18:02	bbloom	,(b)
18:02	clojurebot	[:old]
18:02	bbloom	,(defn foo [] :new)
18:02	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
18:02	technomancy	danielcompton: right; you're just trying to avoid something that someone else is likely to use as a name
18:02	bbloom	,(a)
18:02	clojurebot	[:old]
18:02	bbloom	,(b)
18:02	clojurebot	[:new]
18:02	bbloom	Fare: ^^
18:03	danielcompton	technomancy: and when in doubt, fully qualify?
18:03	technomancy	sure
18:03	bbloom	Fare: alternatively, you could define only a single var which contains a data restructure representing the entire grammar, then use keywords as identities instead of symbols/vars
18:04	bbloom	so (&compose :foo :bar) instead of (&compose #'foo #'bar)
18:04	bbloom	the evaluator would just do a lookup for the production lazily
18:05	Fare	bbloom: I would need to eta-convert all my non-terminal combinations, but that's doable
18:05	hiredman	https://github.com/hiredman/raft/blob/master/project.clj has a sweet group-id
18:05	mthvedt	bbloom: that’s basically what i did for https://github.com/mthvedt/clearley
18:05	mthvedt	it’s kind of heavyweight however
18:05	Fare	yes, I could make my combinators explicitly late-bind...
18:06	mthvedt	actually, i lied
18:06	mthvedt	that’s not really what i did
18:06	mthvedt	nevermind
18:10	gf3	getting this error on the default hello world generate by dnolen_'s mie, any ideas? → https://www.refheap.com/3d45d51132c42c4c6761f1f66
18:11	dnolen_	gf3: you need to be on JDK7 at least
18:11	gf3	dnolen_: ahh ok thx
18:12	Fare	so... is there an existing clojure project that would accept silly contributions such as a python parser? I'm having a hard time convincing my boss to convince my VP to underwrite a new project release just for that
18:13	technomancy	Fare: I can create a dummy project and accept pull requests if you like =)
18:13	Fare	technomancy, that might help :-/
18:13	Fare	a bit borderline, though
18:14	technomancy	really what you need to do is create a web service that can do this for you
18:14	Fare	:-)
18:14	Fare	does anyone here see a use for a python parser?
18:15	danielcompton	Fare: I was wanting to call python libraries from Clojure
18:16	Fare	danielcompton, not the same, unless you also reimplement enough of python...
18:16	danielcompton	Fare: that way madness lies
18:16	Fare	if you want a full python, you're better off calling jython
18:16	Fare	on the other hand, if you, like me, are implementing a python dialect...
18:21	Fare	(inc bbloom)
18:21	lazybot	⇒ 38
18:22	{blake}	I'm getting an error trying to use cljs. I type "lein cljsbuild once" and get "java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Associative".
18:22	{blake}	clojurescript 2268, lein-cljsbuild 1.0.03
18:22	{blake}	(I sorta figure it's a version error but I can't see it. That's the latest everything.)
18:24	imperman	{blake}: What about :plugins [[lein-cljsbuild "1.0.3"]] in project?
18:24	Fare	(defmacro def-forward [& names] `(do ~@(map #(do `(do (declare ~%) (def ~% #'~%))) names)))
18:24	imperman	{blake}: https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild
18:24	{blake}	Yep. (copying and pasting: :plugins [[lein-cljsbuild "1.0.3"]]
18:25	imperman	{blake}: also The lein-cljsbuild plugin works with Leiningen version 2.1.2 or higher.
18:25	{blake}	It's lein 2.3.4.
18:25	imperman	{balke}: hmm...
18:25	{blake}	imperman, Yeah, I went there first. But I've obviously missed something. (I've never had a problem with it before.)
18:26	Fare	I'm not sure I understand what #' does anymore... oh, it's just like calling a symbol in CL... it's actually calling a symbol in clojure.
18:27	Fare	duh
18:27	mthvedt	fare: not quite, #’ gets the var bound to a symbol
18:27	mthvedt	clojure bindings go symbol -> var -> value
18:27	{blake}	Huh, the example in cjlsbuild works, with no clojure/clojurescript dependency.
18:28	imperman	{blake}: What about this: In addition, you should add an explicit ClojureScript dependency to your project, like this:
18:28	imperman	:dependencies [[org.clojure/clojurescript "0.0-XXXX"]]
18:28	imperman	lein-cljsbuild will add a dependency to your project if it doesn't already contain one, but that functionality will not remain for long. The latest version of lein-cljsbuild currently requires a minimum of ClojureScript 0.0-2197.?
18:28	mthvedt	i don’t think common lisp has that
18:28	imperman	{blake}: I don't know exactly. Only try to understand :)
18:29	Fare	oh, #'foo is a var, not a symbol
18:29	ttasterisco	#'foo is the same as (var foo)
18:30	{blake}	OK, I found it.
18:30	Fare	so, vars are callable, and calling them do a late binding
18:30	{blake}	I was using an example that had ":cljsbuild {:builds []})" in it. And that don't work no more.
18:30	Fare	the symbol is not callable, but the var is.
18:30	{blake}	Thanks, imperman!
18:30	{blake}	(inc imperman)
18:30	lazybot	⇒ 1
18:31	imperman	{blake}: Oh, good :)
18:31	Fare	mucho cleaner than whatever I was doing.
18:31	Fare	I'm glad I asked.
18:46	Fare	worth removing a dependency
19:00	Fare	ok, is it worth creating a library for that ~120 line parser combinator thingie?
19:02	ttasterisco	hm, does Korma not have a way to set the isolation level of a transaction?
19:04	Fare	Korma? As in Chicken Korma?
19:09	ttasterisco	Fare: yes
19:09	ttasterisco	with hash brownies
19:19	Fare	#(brownies)
19:24	mthvedt	,(.hashCode “brownies")
19:24	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string>
19:24	ered	i think it put smart quotes on there
19:24	ered	,(.hashCode "brownies")
19:24	clojurebot	384041441
19:24	ered	yeah
19:26	mthvedt	,(.hashCode "brownies")
19:26	clojurebot	384041441
19:26	mthvedt	stupid os x
19:31	danielcompton	Is there a more elegant way of writing https://gist.github.com/danielcompton/df8f59e49626d8ce5d73#file-jmx-queries-clj-L9-L11 ?
19:32	danielcompton	I want to test if attr = a certain value, returning a different value if true and attr if false
19:33	justin_smith	,(replace {[""] :new-value} [[""]])
19:33	clojurebot	[:new-value]
19:33	justin_smith	it's a bit hacky because replace only works on collections - wait...
19:34	justin_smith	,(get {[""] :new-value} [""] ["*"])
19:34	clojurebot	:new-value
19:34	justin_smith	dunno if that is any clearer (you would use attr for the last two values in that form of course)
19:48	zilti	Is it the case that it's impossible to launch a Clojure application without reflection?
19:49	justin_smith	zilti: I don't know, but out of curiosity, why would launching one require reflection? reflection used in the clojure compiler?
19:50	zilti	justin_smith: I'm creating a WebStart application and wanted to make it unsigned. But despite getting no reflection warnings during compilation (and I have :gen-class set, too) I get an error on launch because of reflection
19:52	justin_smith	http://icyrock.com/blog/2012/04/clojure-seesaw-and-java-web-start-with-leiningen/ this mention that seesaw reflects
19:52	justin_smith	*mentions
19:53	zilti	I'm not using seesaw, I'm using JavaFX. And as I said, I don't get any reflection warnings, not even in any libraries
19:54	justin_smith	OK - I wouldn't be too surprised if clojure does some reflection that isn't caught by warn-on-reflection, but as you see I am no expert in this. Interesting though.
19:54	TEttinger	zilti, check for primitive math
19:54	TEttinger	$google ztellman primitive math
19:54	lazybot	[ztellman/primitive-math · GitHub] https://github.com/ztellman/primitive-math
19:55	TEttinger	Unfortunately, while Clojure will warn you when reflection is required to invoke a function, it will not warn you when reflection is required to perform math
19:55	zilti	TEttinger: Thanks, I'll try that
19:56	TEttinger	primitive-math won't fix it automatically, it will throw a lot of warnings at compile time when it finds reflection on math so you can fix them
19:57	TEttinger	the number is usually very high at first, the warning count
19:57	TEttinger	it goes down quickly the more you fix
19:59	danielcompton	justin_smith: thanks, that's helpful, though it also looks a bit weird
20:04	zilti	justin_smith: Ugh. It seems core.async uses libs which use reflection at two points. Bad luck for me.
20:05	justin_smith	zilti: may be worth a github issue
20:05	justin_smith	(or whatever they use to track bugs / feature requests)
20:06	zilti	justin_smith: Jup. Gonna make that Clojure JIRA smoke.
20:07	zilti	core.memoize and data.priority_map use reflection and both are used by core.async
20:07	TEttinger	core.memoize probably needs it
20:08	zilti	"Reflection warning, clojure/core/memoize.clj:72:23 - reference to field cache can't be resolved." sounds more like a bug.
20:08	TEttinger	no, that one is just a reflection warning -- it can't tell the type of cache
20:09	TEttinger	how would it, anyway? memoize is kinda beyond my grasp
20:09	zilti	Yes, I had these in my code too, in my case they were fixed by simple type hints
20:10	justin_smith	TEttinger: it should suffice to have a typehint in the right place that the argument implements the apropriate memoization protocol
20:10	justin_smith	TEttinger: it is already implemented in terms of protocols, so the hinting should be strightforward
20:10	TEttinger	zilti, yeah, JIRA it is then. if it is in memoize.clj you should be able to patch it locally and install it in your maven repo
20:12	pandeiro	should the [:repl-options :init-ns] be automatically loaded on `lein repl`? my repl is starting at the ns, but w/o any of its vars -- is that the normal behavior?
20:28	blur3d	pandeiro: you can try using the user namespace, as it automatically loads in lein repl (I haven’t actually tested this tho)
20:29	fifosine	I don't understand the function definition of get at http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/get
20:29	fifosine	It looks like it just calls itself?
20:30	pandeiro	blur3d: thanks turns out i had mismatching ns/filepath issues (i really need to write the emacs function that automates this..)
20:30	justin_smith	fifosine: where is the definition you are referring to?
20:30	zilti	fifosine: Look at the "inline" part
20:30	hiredman	,(macroexpand '(clojure.lang.RT/get {} 1))
20:30	clojurebot	(. clojure.lang.RT get {} 1)
20:30	hiredman	http://clojure.org/java_interop#Java%20Interop-The%20Dot%20special%20form
20:31	blur3d	justin_smith: I came across this today https://freeboard.io/ - it’s similar to the dashboard I am working on and it’s also open-source. But not clojurescript alas… still some ideas tho
20:32	fifosine	zilti: I'm confused, what's the difference between inline and the actual code?
20:32	hiredman	the day has come when those have arrived who have never use the . and new special forms directly
20:32	justin_smith	blur3d: it's never been easier to become a supervillian
20:32	hiredman	fifosine: see my link
20:32	blur3d	justin_smith: https://www.geckoboard.com/ is more of what I am after… but the key difference is I want it to be dynamic at runtime - aka. it creates itself based on data
20:33	blur3d	justin_smith: yeah.. I think thats the best part of html… viewable source
20:34	zilti	fifosine: Well, it's some fancy macro-stuff-callable-as-function. But I just noticed afterwards that it says the same as the actual code.
20:35	fifosine	hiredman: How would I go about extending the hashmap data structure in order to override the way get works?
20:35	hiredman	fifosine: you mean change the exist hashmap? you can't, you have to build a new hashmap type
20:35	justin_smith	,(macroexpand '(. clojure.lang.RT (get {} 1))) hiredman: but this is what we see on clojuredocs, and that is a tricker syntax
20:35	clojurebot	(. clojure.lang.RT (get {} 1))
20:36	hiredman	justin_smith: the page I linked to explains all the interop syntax
20:36	fifosine	hiredman: That's what I mean, how would I go about building a new hashmap type?
20:36	hiredman	,(supers (class (hash-map))
20:36	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
20:36	hiredman	,(supers (class (hash-map)))
20:36	clojurebot	#{clojure.lang.AFn clojure.lang.Associative java.lang.Runnable clojure.lang.APersistentMap clojure.lang.IMeta ...}
20:36	justin_smith	hiredman: right, just pointing out (you had pasted a more intuitive syntax in your macroexpand above)
20:36	hiredman	you make something that implmenets all of that
20:37	hiredman	depending on what you actually want you can pick and choose some smaller set of interfaces to implement
20:37	fifosine	hiredman: Ok, is implementing those interfaces sufficient for a data structure comprable of a hashmap?
20:38	hiredman	you can support get by implementing ILookup
20:38	hiredman	fifosine: what do you mean comparable?
20:38	fifosine	Does a hashmap have any functionality that is not defined in any one of those interfaces?
20:40	fifosine	hiredman: Is there no way to, the way we can override in Java, override the get method of a hashmap in clojure? Implementing all those interfaces would be more work than would make it worth
20:40	hiredman	IPersistentMap is the main map interface, clojure map literals actually start out as array maps and if they get large enough that got swapped for hashmaps transparently becuase of that interface
20:41	hiredman	fifosine: sure, I'd suggest not creating a new map type
20:41	hiredman	why do you want to?
20:42	fifosine	I want a map where every key and its reverse map to a value
20:42	hiredman	so, like, two maps?
20:42	fifosine	Right, but half the size
20:42	nathan7	well, you can have that
20:42	nathan7	O(n) lookups in one direction, O(1) in the other
20:42	hiredman	I really doubt that
20:43	hiredman	(the half the size bit)
20:43	nathan7	you just need to sacrifice time for space
20:43	fifosine	hiredman: What is it that you doubt?
20:43	nathan7	It's a space vs time tradeoff.
20:44	fifosine	nathan7: I agree, but wouldn't it require overwriting the get method in hashmap so that we can call reverse?
20:44	nathan7	fifosine: Write yourself a wrapper that implements the right interface that tacks onto a normal hashmap
20:44	hiredman	fifosine: that won't work anway
20:44	fifosine	What do you mean by "tacks"? Is that different from extends?
20:44	fifosine	hiredman: Why?
20:45	nathan7	fifosine: so you have two IMap objects — one is the one storing stuff, the other is a wrapper for the former
20:45	hiredman	fifosine: I guess it could
20:45	nathan7	to tack onto, to stick onto
20:45	hiredman	fifosine: why not just write a my-reverse-get-function ?
20:45	nathan7	hiredman: well, you could provide that as a my-reverse-map object
20:46	fifosine	hiredman: Because it needs to be generalized for all map-types.
20:46	nathan7	(reify IMap …)
20:46	hiredman	(if (contains? m k) (get m k) (get m (reverse k)))
20:46	nathan7	IPersistentMap, even
20:46	hiredman	works on any IPersistentMap, and any java.util.Map I suspect
20:46	nathan7	wait
20:46	fifosine	nathan7: What are you listing? Interfaces to implement?
20:47	nathan7	well, it's IPersistentMap I guess
20:47	nathan7	I think I misunderstood your requirements though
20:47	fifosine	,(supers (class (hash-map)))
20:47	clojurebot	#{java.lang.Runnable clojure.lang.IMeta clojure.lang.Associative clojure.lang.Counted clojure.lang.IPersistentCollection ...}
20:47	nathan7	fifosine: I was assuming you meant something that does key->value and value->key lookup
20:47	fifosine	no
20:47	nathan7	you want key->value and (reverse key)->value, in one object
20:47	hiredman	,(defn magic-get [m k] (if (contains? m k) (get m k) (get m (reverse k))))
20:47	clojurebot	#'sandbox/magic-get
20:47	fifosine	yes, but we shouldn't have to store (reverse key)
20:48	hiredman	,(magic-get {"foo" "bar"} "foo")
20:48	clojurebot	"bar"
20:48	hiredman	,(magic-get {"foo" "bar"} "oof")
20:48	clojurebot	nil
20:48	hiredman	oh
20:48	fifosine	lool
20:48	hiredman	str reverse of course
20:48	hiredman	,(defn magic-get [m k] (if (contains? m k) (get m k) (get m (apply str (reverse k)))))
20:48	clojurebot	#'sandbox/magic-get
20:48	hiredman	str reverse of course
20:48	hiredman	,(magic-get {"foo" "bar"} "oof")
20:48	clojurebot	"bar"
20:48	hiredman	,(magic-get (doto (java.util.Map.) (.add "foo" "bar")) "oof")
20:48	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for interface java.util.Map, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
20:48	hiredman	,(magic-get (doto (java.util.HashMap.) (.add "foo" "bar")) "oof")
20:49	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: add for class java.util.HashMap>
20:49	hiredman	,(magic-get (doto (java.util.HashMap.) (.put "foo" "bar")) "oof")
20:49	clojurebot	"bar"
20:49	hiredman	gah
20:49	hiredman	so I guess I haven't used java.util.Maps in a while
20:49	fifosine	hiredman: Nonetheless, I don't want to have to use magic-get
20:52	nathan7	fifosine: then reify!
20:52	fifosine	nathan7: What do I reify? hashmap? Or its interfaces?
20:53	nathan7	fifosine: ILookup
20:53	nathan7	fifosine: at the very least
20:53	fifosine	nathan7: So I have to reimplement all un-edited hashmap methods?
20:53	nathan7	fifosine: Yes.
20:53	fifosine	that's crazy
20:54	nathan7	well, you can forward many of them to your actual hashmap
20:54	nathan7	that backs it
20:54	fifosine	ah ok, guess that's true
20:54	fifosine	still would extend not help?
20:54	fifosine	http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/extend
20:54	nathan7	how would it
20:54	nathan7	what are you going to extend
20:55	nathan7	for one, none of these things are protocols
20:55	nathan7	they're interfaces
20:55	nathan7	extend works with protocols
20:55	fifosine	PersistentHashmap?
20:55	nathan7	is that a protocol now?
20:55	fifosine	Idk, I'm guessing
20:56	nathan7	it can't be
20:56	nathan7	because of how things are implemented
20:56	fifosine	What is it then?
20:56	nathan7	It's nonexistent
20:56	nathan7	IPersistentHashMap is a Java interface
20:57	fifosine	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/PersistentHashMap.java
20:57	nathan7	oh, yes, that's a class
20:57	nathan7	implementing the actual thing
20:57	fifosine	Can I not extend that?
20:57	nathan7	but that's not what you want
20:57	fifosine	no?
20:57	clojurebot	no is tufflax: there was a question somewhere in there, the answer
20:57	nathan7	fifosine: extend the class with what protocol?
20:57	nathan7	fifosine: extend allows you to extend a class with a protocol.
20:57	fifosine	ugh, I must be terribly confused
20:57	nathan7	fifosine: You could define a MagicGet protocol.
20:57	nathan7	fifosine: MagicGettable, whatever
20:58	nathan7	fifosine: and have a magic-get protocol method
20:58	nathan7	fifosine: get, however, operates on things implementing ILookup
20:58	nathan7	fifosine: and assoc operates on things implementing Associative (also an interface, despite lack of I)
20:59	nathan7	fifosine: just ILookup and Associative are probably all you want to implement
21:00	fifosine	I'd hate to have a map that's not fully a map though
21:00	nathan7	Then implement IPersistentMap
21:00	nathan7	which means implementing Iterable, Associative and Counted
21:01	nathan7	I'm bloody tempted to write your thing for you just so you'd understand
21:03	fifosine	nathan7: I'm reading this http://tech.puredanger.com/2011/08/12/subclassing-in-clojure/
21:03	nathan7	heck, here we go
21:03	fifosine	Looking like gen-class will do it
21:08	fifosine	nathan7: Yea, gen-class with :exposes-methods
21:12	nathan7	fifosine: http://sprunge.us/NBYU
21:12	nathan7	fifosine: this is a start
21:14	nathan7	fifosine: #{empty without containsKey assoc assocEx seq entryAt equiv valAt count cons forEach iterator spliterator}
21:14	nathan7	fifosine: the methods you'd have to implement
21:14	nathan7	fifosine: could even have implemented valAt in terms of entryAt
21:35	zilti	Huh? Lein uberjar puts libraries from others than just the default profile into the jar?
21:36	fifosine	(defn my-map [](proxy [clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap] [nil 0 nil false nil]
21:36	fifosine	#_=> (valAt [key] 1)))
21:37	fifosine	mi scuse
21:42	zilti	Ok I've got the exact error because of the reflection now: https://www.refheap.com/88562 What can I do about that?
21:44	TEttinger	that does not appear to be a reflection error at first glance
21:44	TEttinger	it looks like you're reading a local file when you do not have permission from the OS/user
21:45	zilti	TEttinger: The .jar doesn't read any files at all, so that can't be it
21:46	TEttinger	so you're just trying to do webstart and it isn't working?
21:46	TEttinger	or something else?
21:46	zilti	TEttinger: Exactly
21:46	TEttinger	I wasn't aware that webstart was different from normal desktop java
21:47	zilti	TEttinger: Well it runs unsigned applications in the sandbox, so there's that
21:48	fifosine	Anyone know why this returns nil? https://www.refheap.com/88564
21:57	ttasterisco	fifosine: because it can't find any key in the map?
21:57	ttasterisco	you're trying to find a key named (2 1) ?
21:58	nathan7	fifosine: the reverse* fn in my code
21:58	nathan7	fifosine: read it.
21:58	nathan7	fifosine: (defn reverse* [x] (into (empty x) (reverse x)))
21:58	nathan7	fifosine: you want it to be the same collection type
21:59	nathan7	fifosine: (reverse [1 2 3]) is the seq (1 2 3)
21:59	nathan7	err
21:59	nathan7	(3 2 1)
21:59	nathan7	what you want is (reverse* [1 2 3]), giving you [3 2 1], a vector
21:59	fifosine	If you look at the link, the key is a list
21:59	fifosine	and I ask for the reverse of the list
22:00	ttasterisco	what does (println (assoc (rev-key-map) key "nice")) show?
22:01	fifosine	"nice"
22:02	fifosine	,(defn rev-key-map []
22:02	fifosine	(proxy [clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap] [nil 0 nil false nil]
22:02	fifosine	(valAt [key]
22:02	fifosine	(or (proxy-super valAt key)
22:02	fifosine	(proxy-super valAt (reverse key))))))
22:02	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
22:02	fifosine	w/e
22:02	fifosine	ttasterisco: {#<core$key clojure.core$key@24ff5d3f> nice}
22:03	fifosine	,(defn rev-key-map [] (proxy [clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap] [nil 0 nil false nil] (valAt [key] (or (proxy-super valAt key) (proxy-super valAt (reverse key))))))
22:03	clojurebot	#'sandbox/rev-key-map
22:04	fifosine	,(let [key (list 1 2)] (get (assoc (rev-key-map) key "nice") key))
22:04	clojurebot	"nice"
22:04	fifosine	but
22:04	fifosine	,(let [key (list 1 2)] (get (assoc (rev-key-map) key "nice") (reverse key)))
22:04	clojurebot	nil
22:04	ttasterisco	[19:00] <fifosine> ttasterisco: {#<core$key clojure.core$key@24ff5d3f> nice}
22:05	ttasterisco	that's not "nice"
22:05	ttasterisco	that's a map with a key and nice
22:05	gfredericks	,(type (rev-key-map))
22:05	clojurebot	sandbox.proxy$clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap$ff19274a
22:05	ttasterisco	,(let [key (list 1 2)] (println (keys (assoc (rev-key-map) key "nice"))))
22:05	clojurebot	((1 2))\n
22:05	gfredericks	,(type (assoc (rev-key-map) 1 2))
22:05	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap
22:05	ttasterisco	that's the key in the map
22:05	gfredericks	ttasterisco: ^ it reverts to a regular map after assoc
22:06	fifosine	Ah-ha!
22:06	fifosine	shit
22:06	gfredericks	ztellman has a lib for making custom map types without too much trouble
22:07	ttasterisco	,(doc transient)
22:07	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns a new, transient version of the collection, in constant time."
22:14	gfredericks	,(doc var)
22:14	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
22:14	gfredericks	,(doc comment)
22:14	clojurebot	"([& body]); Ignores body, yields nil"
22:14	gfredericks	,(comment doc)
22:14	clojurebot	nil
22:15	danielszmulewicz	'lein new app my-app' doesn't create a user.clj under a dev directory. I always thought it did. Did it change recently?
22:21	technomancy	no, it's never done that
22:21	wildnux	hi, if i have a function (valid-arg? ) which takes a string and returns the string if it is valid else returns nil, what is the idomatic way of checking 3 arguments for a function? eg: (defn [f s t] (map valid-arg? [f s t]) gives (str1 str2 str3)
22:22	wildnux	how do i write (defn checkthree [f s t] ..) so that it returns (f s t) if all are valid else returns nil
22:25	danielszmulewicz	technomancy: Oh, OK. I understand, I need to add the :dev profile in project.clj and create the file manually, right?
22:37	fitzoh	Trying to figure out what I’m doing wrong inserting multiple values with jdbc. this works: (j/insert! db :table nil (first lines) (second lines))
22:37	fitzoh	this doesn’t: (apply #(j/insert! db :table nil %) lines))
22:37	fitzoh	what am I missing?
22:42	ttasterisco	you're passing a collection to insert! in the 2nd case, while in the first case you're passing lines as separate args?
22:43	trptcolin	fitzoh: your anonymous fn only takes 1 arg but apply is making you pass more (assuming lines has > 1 element)
22:43	fitzoh	I thought that the apply “unwrapped” the collections into multiple args
22:45	trptcolin	you can delete the `#(` and the `)` and it should work
22:45	ttasterisco	,(doc apply)
22:45	clojurebot	"([f args] [f x args] [f x y args] [f x y z args] [f a b c d ...]); Applies fn f to the argument list formed by prepending intervening arguments to args."
22:46	ttasterisco	what trptcolin said
22:47	fitzoh	ah, makes sense
22:47	fitzoh	thanks for the help
22:49	trptcolin	np
23:40	kelseygi	hi i am kind of stuck trying to create a predicate based on a vector of strings
23:40	kelseygi	(defn reply?
23:40	kelseygi	(some-fn (map (partial #(.startsWith %1 %2)) prefixes)))
23:40	kelseygi	i'm getting Parameter declaration some-fn should be a vector
23:43	ttasterisco	you're missing a [] with the args after reply?
23:43	kelseygi	sorry, prefixes refers to an arg
23:43	kelseygi	er to a vector of strings
23:44	ttasterisco	(defn reply? [some-fn prefixes] (some-fn (map (partial #(.startsWith %1 %2)) prefixes))) ?
23:45	ttasterisco	why are you using partial with the anonymous function?
23:45	ttasterisco	,(defn reply? [some-fn prefixes] (some-fn (map #(.startsWith %1 %2) prefixes)))
23:45	clojurebot	#'sandbox/reply?
23:47	ghadishayban	core.async "subway turnstile" https://gist.github.com/ghadishayban/7018dbc353216801b318
23:49	ttasterisco	,(defn reply? [some-fn pf1 pf2] (some-fn (map #(.startsWith %1 %2) pf1 pf2)))
23:49	clojurebot	#'sandbox/reply?
23:49	ghadishayban	i can't decide if metaphors help or hurt most of the time
23:50	ttasterisco	,(reply? vec ["aaa" "bbb" "ccc" "ddd"] ["ddd" "bbb" "ccc" "aaa"])
23:50	clojurebot	[false true true false]
23:50	ghadishayban	they probably help if it's in a description, but not symbol names
23:56	literater	having what looks to be a dependency issue with lobos. new to clojure, unsure how to resolve. i'e had issues getting korma to work so i set org.clojure/java.jdbc to latest in my project.clj. now korma works but i get a "#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: db in this context, compiling:(lobos/connectivity/jdbc_2.clj:14:1)>"