2014-06-13
| 00:15 | tolstoy | Any clue why this doesn't return any attributes: {:find [?attrs] :in [$ ?str] :where [[_ ?attrs ?str]]}? |
| 00:18 | tolstoy | Hm. Maybe I have to define some sort of full text search in there? |
| 00:21 | tolstoy | Or: "If both the entity and attribute positions of a clause are unbound and the value is specified, the value must be an entity id." |
| 00:23 | xeqi | michaniskin: I'll be interested to hear if you get the full tree you're looking for |
| 00:25 | michaniskin | xeqi: i'll let you know. it's slow going, though, and difficult to debug when things aren't working. |
| 00:27 | michaniskin | xeqi: my immediate goal is to be able to run an nrepl server in one pod and the reply repl client in another pod without getting namespace clashes |
| 01:06 | justin_smith | michaniskin: isn't there some kind of java architecture for things like this, with parallel modular classpaths or something? it looked very complicated and architected iirc |
| 01:08 | beamso | osgi? |
| 01:09 | justin_smith | that was the one indeed |
| 01:09 | justin_smith | I am sure michaniskin has seen this, and probably thought it looked silly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSGi |
| 02:33 | hellofunk | yes |
| 02:45 | Jaood | hellofunk: no way |
| 02:48 | IbrahimA | yes way |
| 02:56 | dbasch | &(str (get ["yes" "no"] (rand-int 2)) " way") |
| 02:56 | lazybot | ⇒ "yes way" |
| 02:56 | beamso | haha. |
| 03:00 | jonasen | &(str (rand-nth [“yes” “no”]) “ way”) |
| 03:00 | lazybot | java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: “yes” in this context |
| 03:01 | allenj12 | does anyone else find om to be confusing? |
| 03:02 | beamso | seemed easier than angular to me (from tutes and initial dev work) |
| 03:04 | allenj12 | beamso: hmm im new to all this kinda stuff, and the om tutorials kinda shove alot in your face at once |
| 03:04 | john2x | sufficiently complex manipulation of the DOM is inherently confusing |
| 03:05 | jonasen | &(str (rand-nth ["yes" "no"]) " way") |
| 03:05 | lazybot | ⇒ "yes way" |
| 03:06 | allenj12 | so if i have a root watching a div, then i have a function that renders that original div, does it replace that div with the components i add? |
| 03:06 | beamso | it renders inside the div |
| 03:06 | allenj12 | gotcha |
| 03:06 | beamso | you probably shouldn't render the div again (or attempt to) |
| 03:09 | allenj12 | beamso: hmm alright |
| 03:11 | dbasch | &(str (last (take (inc (rand-int 2)) (cycle ["yes" "no"]))) " way") |
| 03:11 | lazybot | ⇒ "no way" |
| 03:11 | allenj12 | when you <! from a chan what might your val look likeL |
| 03:15 | allenj12 | beamso: would it help if i read the js tutorials first? |
| 03:17 | hellofunk | allenj12 the value on a chan could be anything, even another channel |
| 03:18 | allenj12 | hellofunk: hmm kk |
| 03:18 | hellofunk | allenj12 and i don't know what js tutorials you are referrign to but personally i don't think it is necessary to know js well to write clojurescript |
| 03:18 | beamso | allenj12: i'd recommend looking at the o'reilly clojurescript book or a javascript book if you're struggling |
| 03:18 | allenj12 | hellofunk: clojurescript im fine its just om :( |
| 03:19 | allenj12 | sorry i ment js react tutorials |
| 03:19 | hellofunk | it can't hurt to read them but i'm not and i'm also learning om. |
| 03:21 | allenj12 | hellofunk: ahh kk i guess i just need to look more, are you using any source besides the gitub wiki? |
| 03:22 | hellofunk | nope that's the one (or two) that i'm using |
| 03:22 | hellofunk | just go through them a few times over and over |
| 03:22 | allenj12 | hellofunk: yea, thats my plan now |
| 03:22 | hellofunk | reification, core.async, DOM handling, React, I agree it is a lot to learn at once. but it's not rocket science, nor is it neurosurgery. |
| 03:23 | allenj12 | hellofunk: indeed :) |
| 03:29 | allenj12 | is transact pretty much swap? |
| 03:44 | borkdude | my emacs cider autocomplete thing is broken. When I press tab, I get "List expression: ..." |
| 03:44 | borkdude | *Lisp |
| 03:49 | ddellaco_ | anyone have a suggestion as to how I can convert some filenames to unreadable garbage to make Java throw an exception? (specifically, java.util.zip.ZipFile) |
| 03:52 | borkdude | ddellacosta you can just use throw to throw an exception ;) |
| 03:53 | clgv | ddellacosta: either the Zip format specification or the implementation details might help there. I'd bet you have more success probabilities with the former |
| 03:54 | ddellacosta | borkdude: well, I'm trying to duplicate an exception that I'm getting with data I'm not allowed to use. The exception is getting provoked inside from an enumeration-seq when I doseq |
| 03:56 | clgv | ddellacosta: so you are not trying to build an invalid zip archive for testing with respect to filenames? |
| 03:58 | ddellacosta | clgv: I should put it like this: I'm trying to duplicate this behavior in my code somehow: https://www.refheap.com/86541 |
| 03:58 | ddellacosta | clgv: I'm willing to consider any way to do that, but I'm a bit stumped right now. |
| 03:59 | ddellacosta | clgv: rather, I want to duplicate that in my tests, I should clarify |
| 03:59 | ddellacosta | clgv: ...and then I can ensure I'm handling it correctly. |
| 04:01 | clgv | ddellacosta: there are lots of results on google for that one, e.g. https://github.com/zeroturnaround/zt-zip/issues/34 |
| 04:01 | ddellacosta | (updated that refheap with the two lines that provoke it in the code) |
| 04:02 | ddellacosta | clgv: okay, thanks, I'll see if that leads me anywhere. |
| 04:04 | clgv | ddellacosta: äöü;) |
| 04:05 | ddellacosta | clgv: yeah, tried putting that in a file but it's not working. The problem I think is that it's already UTF-8 I guess, which will make it moot. |
| 04:05 | ddellacosta | clgv: what I'd really rather do is somehow get java.util.zip.ZipCoder.toString to throw that exception on demand, but I'm not sure how to do that. |
| 04:06 | Glenjamin | can you just with-redef something to throw a canned exception? |
| 04:07 | clgv | ddellacosta: if you want the exception in the enumerating code just build a enumeration which throws an exception at a random point in a valid sequence |
| 04:07 | ddellacosta | Glenjamin: can you use with-redefs with Java methods? |
| 04:07 | Glenjamin | no, you'd need a wrapper |
| 04:08 | ddellacosta | clgv: that's not going to guarantee that it will be handled in the same way in production though. |
| 04:09 | Glenjamin | (defn zipfile-entries-seq [^java.util.zip.ZipFile zipfile] (enumeration-seq (.entries zipfile))) |
| 04:09 | Glenjamin | then with-redef that |
| 04:09 | clgv | ddellacosta: ok let me rephrase. I'd put it in the last clojure function that interfaces zipfile |
| 04:09 | clgv | last => nearest to the java layer |
| 04:10 | clgv | ddellacosta: from the link I sent you, I'd say you could just create a ZipFile instance with a wrong charset that definitely does not support the characters you used in filenames |
| 04:11 | ddellacosta | clgv: right; that would make me happiest since it's closest to a real integration test. All this other mucking about with redefs and fudging where the exception is coming from smells to me, although if I could trigger it on the actual Java method I would do that. |
| 04:12 | ddellacosta | clgv, Glenjamin: anyways, thanks for the help. I'll keep fiddling around with this. |
| 04:12 | clgv | ddellacosta: the last comment indicating the fix seems to me could be the way to break it on purpose |
| 04:13 | clgv | we are in an evil mood today, breaking things on purpose ;) |
| 04:13 | ddellacosta | clgv: ? You mean in the link you gave me? How so? |
| 04:13 | Glenjamin | i think its reasonable to mock/stub at the boundary between your code and not-your-code |
| 04:13 | Glenjamin | but i can see why you might prefer a real integration test |
| 04:14 | ddellacosta | Glenjamin: I would normally agree but the problem is that that boundary is not clear to me. It appears to be happening when doseq begins, which triggers the exception from calling first on the value produced by enumeration-seq. doseq is a macro and stubbing that out with with-redefs does nasty things. Otherwise I'm not sure where to stub and not happy digging deeper into the Clojure internals. |
| 04:15 | clgv | ddellacosta: that one: new ZipFile(file, Charset.forName("Cp437")); - I'd bet using cyrillic from UTF-8 and applying an ANSI charset should break, no? |
| 04:15 | ddellacosta | Glenjamin: so I'd much rather either stub out the method where it's actually thrown (java.util.zip.ZipCoder.toString()) or just pass in a crap zipfile. I wish I could use the original file, but business/legal concerns mean I can't. |
| 04:16 | clgv | ddellacosta: stubbing a custom seq similar to enumeration-seq would be the next better choice I guess |
| 04:16 | Glenjamin | ,(doc enumeration-seq) |
| 04:17 | clojurebot | "([e]); Returns a seq on a java.util.Enumeration" |
| 04:17 | ddellacosta | clgv: probably...but this is where I'm stumped: I'm on Mac OS X, and I'm not sure how to produce a file with a filename in some non-UTF-8 encoding. I've tried using convmv but that doesn't seem to break it. Sorry, this is not really #clojure related at this point |
| 04:17 | clgv | Glenjamin: for java's enumerators |
| 04:17 | Glenjamin | yeah, just wondering if its lazy |
| 04:17 | Glenjamin | as the stack trace shows two calls to nextElement |
| 04:17 | clgv | ddellacosta: via Java? create a non-utf8 string (possible?) and create a file with it |
| 04:18 | clgv | Glenjamin: it is certainly lazy since enumerators are ;) |
| 04:18 | clgv | Glenjamin: it's probably the second item encountered that throws |
| 04:19 | clgv | ah scratch that. I bet on some overloaded version |
| 04:20 | Glenjamin | ah yes, very different line numbers |
| 04:21 | Glenjamin | ddellacosta: can you make a zipfile with a non-ascii char in the name, then load as ascii? |
| 04:21 | clgv | I am not sure why it reports line 513 since this is a return statement in java 7 |
| 04:22 | ddellacosta | Glenjamin: I haven't had much luck with that so far. |
| 04:22 | clgv | ddellacosta: do it programmatically if OS X prevents you from doing it manually |
| 04:23 | borkdude | I am now using a relatively vanilla emacs with cider installed, and when I press tab for autocomplete, I get this exception: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: complete.core |
| 04:24 | ddellacosta | clgv: yeah, I'll give that a shot if I can't figure out a way to stub this Java method |
| 04:26 | clgv | borkdude: dependency issues - hoooray! |
| 04:27 | borkdude | clgv do you know how to solve this? |
| 04:29 | clgv | borkdude: nope. I am glad that I can decide manually when to upgrade my clojure ide ;) |
| 04:29 | clgv | I always check new releases on a private computer before using them at work... |
| 04:30 | borkdude | clgv what 'ide' are you using? |
| 04:31 | clgv | non-emacs. I still use CCW ;) |
| 04:31 | clgv | I had a look at cursive and lighttable but there was no compelling reason to switch so far |
| 04:32 | clgv | guess I dont wanna change the running and reliable system ;) |
| 04:34 | Psy-Q | i'm trying to get into clojure by porting something i did in ruby: a base parser class that parses various online store product pages and sticks all the found products into a database. right now there is a parser superclass with some generic functionality and then one subclass per specific store, containing the correct xpath/css selectors to parse each different shop's HTML. what would be a good structure for this in clojure or an FP approach in general, how ca |
| 04:36 | clgv | Psy-Q: split the "parser superclass" into sever functions that can be used from the specialized functions |
| 04:37 | clgv | *several |
| 04:42 | borkdude | so what is the best place to go with my cider issue, this channel or other one? |
| 04:44 | allenj12 | borkdude: definatley emacs channel id say |
| 04:46 | clgv | borkdude: some of the maintainers of cider are often here at a later time, maybe 5-6 hours from now |
| 04:47 | allenj12 | does it make sense to make a channel if im only keeping watch on one thing of a certain type, like if i have 3 input feilds one where i keep track of a name field when the person types and i keep track of two password fields to see if they match |
| 05:02 | clgv | was there ever an explanation why exceptions might not contain stacktraces anymore after reevaluating a namespace? |
| 05:07 | borkdude | hmm https://gist.github.com/borkdude/6301d3a1f05e37074276 |
| 05:07 | borkdude | I am now using Emacs Prelude and the cider-nrepl plugin, but it doesn't seem to pick it up |
| 05:17 | Psy-Q | clgv: ah, so it wouldn't be completely ugly to have e.g. "store-one-parser.clj", "store-two-parser.clj" and "useful-parser-stuff.clj" that they both use? |
| 05:19 | borkdude | one step further: https://gist.github.com/borkdude/0426d75b3c562d9581e2 |
| 05:19 | clgv | Psy-Q: in fact you could also implement all in one namespace - the consideration depends on how you much you want to limit the size of the namespaces |
| 05:19 | borkdude | installed cider-nrepl 0.7.0-snapshot. Please install cider-nrepl 0.7.0-snapshot? |
| 05:19 | clgv | Psy-Q: provided you switch to functional style completely and use the right libs your code will shrink considerably anyway |
| 05:20 | Psy-Q | clgv: ah, okay. size-wise it would work, each parser more or less has two things, a regex for filtering product names and a css or xpath selector to find the products on a page |
| 05:20 | clgv | *code size |
| 05:20 | Psy-Q | clgv: i might even get by with one function that takes the appropriate regex and path per store, i think :) |
| 05:20 | clgv | Psy-Q: oh maybe you need only one function then, since you can pass those as parameters |
| 05:20 | clgv | Psy-Q: ^^ :D |
| 05:20 | Psy-Q | clgv: hah, same thought :) |
| 05:21 | Psy-Q | this'll be really, really enlightening to implement |
| 05:21 | Psy-Q | even if it takes me a month :P |
| 05:21 | clgv | Psy-Q: but you should break down parts of the functionality into smaller functions |
| 05:21 | clgv | so that you do not end up with one messy 50 lines function ;) |
| 05:22 | Psy-Q | clgv: so far (even in the ruby version, i notice) i have one thing that finds the product list, one thing that extracts a single product from the list and iterates further, one thing that determines whether there are more catalog pages to parse, one thing that extracts the price from a product etc. |
| 05:22 | Psy-Q | so maybe i was already splitting it more or less appropriately for FP |
| 05:22 | clgv | seems like it. |
| 06:21 | oholiab | this is probably asked quite a lot but my google-fu is failing me - is there a way to drop into the repl from running code? |
| 06:28 | ggherdov | hi. somebody here https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/nt8Lud-AOb8 asked for a book "à la Meyers or Bloch". Who are those authors? Meyers the C++ guy? |
| 06:30 | hugoduncan | michaniskin: if you want a list jars on the classpath, look at bultitude |
| 06:32 | guyme | Hi! |
| 06:33 | philandstuff | ggherdov: yes. they wrote books titled "effective c++" and "effective java" |
| 06:33 | ggherdov | philandstuff: ok |
| 06:34 | clgv | oholiab: not as you describe it. but you can embed a repl or nrepl in your running program |
| 06:35 | oholiab | clgv: thanks |
| 06:36 | oholiab | alternatively does anyone know what incantation you use to ptint the return value of an object as it's printed in the repl (NOT coerce it to a string) |
| 06:36 | clgv | ggherdov: seems like it. google finds "Effective C++..." and "Effective Java ..." |
| 06:36 | oholiab | i.e. the equivalent of ruby's "inspect" |
| 06:36 | oholiab | |
| 06:37 | clgv | oholiab: sounds like you want `prn` |
| 06:37 | oholiab | clgv: nice |
| 06:37 | oholiab | thanks |
| 06:37 | clgv | well thats a book title to clain "Effective Clojure" :D |
| 06:37 | clgv | ^^ |
| 06:38 | clgv | *claim |
| 06:38 | oholiab | I was about to tell you you were wrong about prn and then I realised I was manually casting to a string |
| 06:38 | oholiab | that could have been awkward |
| 06:39 | oholiab | clgv: thanks for your help :) |
| 06:39 | clgv | ,(println (range 10)) |
| 06:39 | clojurebot | (0 1 ...)\n |
| 06:39 | oholiab | I knew all of this stuff once and then I didn't write any clojure in ages |
| 06:39 | clgv | damn he is cheating |
| 06:40 | oholiab | that's taking lazy evaluation a bit too far |
| 06:40 | oholiab | :P |
| 06:40 | clgv | ah no |
| 06:40 | clgv | ,(str (range 10)) |
| 06:40 | clojurebot | eval service is offline |
| 06:40 | clgv | now he seems annoyed :P |
| 06:40 | oholiab | lol wut |
| 06:40 | clgv | &(str (range 10)) |
| 06:40 | lazybot | ⇒ "clojure.lang.LazySeq@9ebadac6" |
| 06:41 | clgv | &(pr-str (range 10)) |
| 06:41 | lazybot | ⇒ "(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)" |
| 06:48 | Glenjamin | ,:working? |
| 06:48 | clojurebot | :working? |
| 06:49 | ggherdov | clgv: indeed, the key word was "effective" in the book title. I missed it, reading the message in the newsgroup. |
| 06:50 | oholiab | welp all that time I spent trying to add recursive config loading to this project and it already has it |
| 06:50 | oholiab | I am such a dumbass |
| 07:02 | borkdude | already someone awake who knows how I can get cider-nrepl plugin working? |
| 07:14 | agarman | emacs live |
| 07:15 | agarman | borkdude: if you don't want to use emacs live, give me a sec and I'll get a link to a gist of my old user.el file |
| 07:42 | borkdude | agarman I just switched form emacs live to Emacs Prelude, because in live it stopped working as well |
| 07:43 | borkdude | agarman but no luck in prelude neither :-s |
| 07:45 | borkdude | but in prelude I have a different problem. the cider-nrepl plugin isn't recognized |
| 07:47 | agarman | borkdude: have you tried deleting your elpa directory? |
| 07:48 | agarman | borkdude: multiple conflicting versions can get downloaded and elpa will happily try to use all of them |
| 07:48 | borkdude | I have removed cider and clojure-mode from elpa |
| 07:48 | borkdude | then re-installed |
| 07:48 | agarman | and it's still not working? |
| 07:48 | borkdude | well, it's working but not completely. the autocomplete won't work, which was my problem in the first place |
| 07:48 | borkdude | https://gist.github.com/borkdude/0426d75b3c562d9581e2 |
| 07:48 | agarman | ah, repl autocomplete? |
| 07:48 | borkdude | agarman yes |
| 07:49 | agarman | okay, emacs-live didn't seem to have that enabled because AC breaks once a buffer gets too large |
| 07:50 | agarman | REPL buffers cause AC to break |
| 07:50 | borkdude | I remember having used this in emacs-live |
| 07:50 | agarman | I enable company mode in my emacs live |
| 07:50 | borkdude | completion--some: Can't find nREPL middleware providing op "complete". Please, install cider-nrepl 0.7.0-snapshot and restart CIDER <- is what I get now |
| 07:50 | agarman | and for nrepl middleware |
| 07:51 | agarman | you need to add that stuff to your lein profile |
| 07:51 | borkdude | I got this in my profiles.clj under :user :plugins : [cider/cider-nrepl "0.7.0-SNAPSHOT"] |
| 07:52 | agarman | 0.7.0 wasn't working for me when I tried it |
| 07:52 | agarman | I'm using 0.6.0 |
| 07:52 | borkdude | cider also prints this when it starts: ; CIDER 0.7.0alpha (package: 20140612.1003) (Java 1.7.0_55, Clojure 1.6.0, nREPL 0.2.2, cider-nrepl 0.7.0-snapshot) |
| 07:52 | borkdude | I can try 0.6 then |
| 07:53 | agarman | yeah 0.6.0 is stable |
| 07:54 | borkdude | hmm, how can I install an older version in emacs from package-list-packages? |
| 07:55 | borkdude | there should be something like a project.clj for elpa |
| 07:57 | agarman | borkdude: I have no idea how to keep elpa from grabbing the most up-to-date version...aside from not reference the package-archives that have beta, alpha and snapshot builds |
| 08:04 | agarman | borkdude: I started to switch to http://tapoueh.org/emacs/el-get.html because it's less surprising than elpa |
| 08:04 | borkdude | agarman ok, I think I'll switch back to emacs live now and then work from there again (I like the defaults better) |
| 08:05 | agarman | borkdude: ^_^ |
| 08:14 | borkdude | agarman what do you get when you type in a repl for instance '(diss' followed by a tab? |
| 08:14 | borkdude | I'm working with the newest emacs-live from master |
| 08:17 | agarman | borkdude: I add https://www.refheap.com/86550 to my ~/.live-packs/`whoami`-packs/init.el |
| 08:17 | agarman | borkdude: so I have company mode running in my repl |
| 08:18 | agarman | borkdude: AC everywhere else...and you'll want to change the default bindings for completion in one or the other |
| 08:19 | borkdude | ok |
| 08:24 | borkdude | is emacs-live still actively maintained btw? last commit is couple of months ago |
| 08:26 | agarman | borkdude: if Sam Aaron abandons it, someone will take over... |
| 08:26 | Hodapp | you an emacs-live user? |
| 08:26 | agarman | borkdude: until there's a new stable release of cider, there's not much to do with Emacs-Live |
| 08:26 | borkdude | agarman I'm not sure how to get company working though, if I install it via elpa, it installs also a newer version of cider, etc. |
| 08:27 | Hodapp | I am liking emacs-live, though I find some of the default settings to be a bit obnoxious. |
| 08:27 | agarman | Hodapp: I use it currently...though I may switch to just using el-get in the future |
| 08:28 | borkdude | the thing I don't like of emacs-live is the slow startup time compared to prelude |
| 08:28 | agarman | borkdude: I start emacs on boot, so I don't notice |
| 08:28 | agarman | borkdude: https://gist.github.com/agarman/9715019 |
| 08:29 | borkdude | agarman ok cool |
| 08:29 | agarman | borkdude: that's assuming OSX |
| 08:29 | borkdude | agarman I have osx |
| 08:30 | agarman | I then have an alias in my bash_profile |
| 08:30 | agarman | "reattach-to-user-namespace emacsclient -s emax -t" |
| 08:30 | agarman | which assumes you have used brew to install reattach-to-user-namespace |
| 08:31 | engblom | Reading https://github.com/clojure-cookbook/clojure-cookbook/blob/master/04_local-io/4-14_read-write-clojure-data-structures.asciidoc I wonder how safe this approach is? Let's assume we have a power-loss while writing some data structures to the disk, is the whole file lost? |
| 08:31 | engblom | Can this be done in an ACID way? |
| 08:31 | agarman | engblom: read-string will potentially eval |
| 08:32 | borkdude | agarman I don't know the reattach thing, but I might check it out |
| 08:32 | agarman | borkdude: it's mostly for tmux in iterm |
| 08:32 | borkdude | agarman do you use emacs via iterm? |
| 08:32 | agarman | borkdude: yes |
| 08:32 | borkdude | agarman hm, I don't, I like the cocoa better |
| 08:32 | agarman | borkdude: I have my iterm config up on gist |
| 08:33 | agarman | borkdude: I'm open to dumping iterm, though I'd miss it's buffer history if whatever I switched to didn't have it |
| 08:34 | borkdude | agarman buffer history as in clipboard? |
| 08:35 | agarman | borkdude: no CMD-OPT-B will let you look at the state of the term through it's history |
| 08:36 | borkdude | agarman ah yes, I see that now |
| 08:36 | borkdude | I just use up arrow ;) |
| 08:36 | agarman | borkdude: I use flycut for OSX paste-history |
| 08:36 | agarman | borkdude: up arrow doesn't work for top |
| 08:36 | agarman | borkdude: or looking at stuff in old tmux windows |
| 08:36 | borkdude | agarman I use alfred for clipboard history |
| 08:37 | borkdude | agarman I tried to use tmux, but when scrolling didn't work as expected I got annoyed |
| 08:39 | CookedGryphon | I'm using PersistentVector from java and I want to conj the contents of a java array, is there a better way than looping and repeatedly consing to add it all at once? |
| 08:40 | szymanowski | Hi, I need to make a type that is a small wrapper around an Integer, I would like it to be treated as an Integer by clojure.core functions, what is the way to go for doing that? |
| 08:41 | CookedGryphon | have you tried just extending it? or are you just assuming it won't work? |
| 08:42 | agarman | CookedGryphon: have you tried addAll? |
| 08:42 | szymanowski | java.lang.Number extension seems to be the thing |
| 08:43 | CookedGryphon | agarman: ah, yeah that looks like it |
| 08:44 | engblom | Is there anything similar to this for clojure? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/acid-state |
| 08:44 | CookedGryphon | agarman: I guess the question then is, which is faster, building a collection (I know the size ahead of time) and using this, or doing cons on each element and not bothering with the collection |
| 08:45 | engblom | http://acid-state.seize.it/ |
| 09:33 | mikerod | It's interesting. You can do something like `(defn .myFn [x] x)` |
| 09:33 | mikerod | However, you cannot call it like `(.myFn 1)` |
| 09:34 | Glenjamin | ,(defn .dot [] "dot") |
| 09:34 | clojurebot | #'sandbox/.dot |
| 09:34 | Glenjamin | (.dot) |
| 09:34 | mikerod | "IllegalArgumentException No matching field found: myFn for class java.lang.Long clojure.lang.Reflector.getInstanceField (Reflector.java:271)" |
| 09:34 | Glenjamin | ,(.dot) |
| 09:34 | clojurebot | #<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Malformed member expression, expecting (.member target ...)> |
| 09:34 | mikerod | Is what I get |
| 09:34 | Glenjamin | ,(#'.dot) |
| 09:34 | clojurebot | "dot" |
| 09:34 | mikerod | It is interpreted as the dot special form |
| 09:34 | mikerod | yes, I figured directly accessing the var first would work. |
| 09:34 | Glenjamin | ,(macroexpand '(.dot)) |
| 09:34 | clojurebot | #<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Malformed member expression, expecting (.member target ...)> |
| 09:35 | Glenjamin | ah, interop is a reader thing i guess |
| 09:35 | mikerod | Oh. |
| 09:35 | mikerod | I guess that surprises me |
| 09:36 | Bronsa | not a reader thing |
| 09:36 | philandstuff | ,(macroexpand '(.dot :fake-target)) |
| 09:36 | clojurebot | (. :fake-target ...) |
| 09:36 | Bronsa | (.foo bar) gets transformed to (. bar foo) by macroexpand |
| 09:37 | philandstuff | huh, where did that "..." come from? |
| 09:37 | Bronsa | ,'dot |
| 09:37 | clojurebot | dot |
| 09:37 | Bronsa | ,'(dot dot) |
| 09:37 | clojurebot | (dot dot) |
| 09:37 | Bronsa | uh |
| 09:38 | philandstuff | ,(macroexpand '(.foo :fake-target)) |
| 09:38 | Bronsa | ,(macroexpand '(dot dot)) |
| 09:38 | clojurebot | (. :fake-target ...) |
| 09:38 | clojurebot | (dot dot) |
| 09:38 | philandstuff | ,(macroexpand '(.foo :fake-target bar baz)) |
| 09:38 | clojurebot | (. :fake-target ...) |
| 09:38 | philandstuff | *shrug* |
| 09:38 | Bronsa | oh |
| 09:38 | Bronsa | ,*print-length* |
| 09:38 | clojurebot | 2 |
| 09:38 | Bronsa | that's useless |
| 09:38 | Bronsa | ,(set! *print-length* 10) |
| 09:38 | clojurebot | 10 |
| 09:38 | philandstuff | ,(macroexpand '(.foo :fake-target)) |
| 09:38 | clojurebot | (. :fake-target ...) |
| 09:39 | Bronsa | ,*print-length* |
| 09:39 | clojurebot | 2 |
| 09:39 | Bronsa | :| |
| 09:40 | Glenjamin | ,(binding [*print-length* 10] (macroexpand '(.foo :fake))) |
| 09:40 | clojurebot | (. :fake ...) |
| 09:40 | Glenjamin | :s |
| 09:40 | mikerod | Bronsa: I was messing around with attempting to qualify symbols while parsing them. I originally thought "anything starting with a `.` can't be qualified". Then I realized you can make vars that start with `.`; so my assumption was a bit wrong. |
| 09:40 | Glenjamin | i assume (.method target) -> (. target method) is a reader thing, because i dunno what the macro would be called |
| 09:41 | mikerod | Glenjamin: it is a special form I am thinking. |
| 09:41 | mikerod | static final Symbol DOT = Symbol.intern("."); |
| 09:41 | mikerod | https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L51 |
| 09:42 | erlis | need help here. I've just executed something in the emacs Repl (cider) and is not ending, it looks like is trying to realize a lazy seq or something |
| 09:42 | Bronsa | Glenjamin: the transformation is hardcoded here https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L6567-L6578 |
| 09:42 | erlis | is there a way to abort this execution? |
| 09:43 | philandstuff | cider-interrupt? |
| 09:43 | erlis | I don't want to kill the repl just abort the executing command |
| 09:43 | philandstuff | that is, M-x cider-interrupt |
| 09:43 | erlis | philandstuff let me try that |
| 09:44 | erlis | did it, nothing happens |
| 09:46 | erlis | I think I'll kill it :( |
| 09:46 | erlis | is there a way to automatically load all files in my project in cider |
| 09:47 | erlis | without having to C-c C-k file by file? |
| 09:48 | Glenjamin | i usually have a scratch.clj which does (ns user (require [blah blah blah])) |
| 09:50 | erlis | I have in my .core file this (ns project.core (:require [path.module1 :as m1] [path.module2 :as m2])) |
| 09:51 | erlis | the problem is that if I do C-c C-k in that file it will error complaining that module1 and module2 are not loaded |
| 09:51 | erlis | so I have to go to module1 file and to C-c C-k and also to module2 |
| 09:51 | erlis | then it works |
| 09:51 | erlis | but imagine that now I'm having almost 7 files |
| 09:51 | erlis | that's why I don't want to kill my REPL |
| 09:52 | Glenjamin | thats odd, if you eval that file i'd expect the ns form to require all the deps like it would normally |
| 09:52 | Glenjamin | i don't use emacs, so can't advise more |
| 09:53 | andyf | Bronsa: Should tools.reader be able to read and preserve any kind of metadata on code it reads, or only some kinds? I ask because I can see type tags like ^Integer preserved, but things like ^{:linter {:disable [bar]}} do not seem to be. |
| 09:53 | andyf | I'm probably doing something wrong, but thought I'd ask to see if you knew of any limitations there. |
| 09:54 | erlis | Glenjamin that's what I was hoping too |
| 09:55 | Bronsa | andyf: yeah tools.reader shouldn't leave out any metadata |
| 09:55 | andyf | Bronsa: OK, I'll keep experimenting and open a case if I think I can narrow it down to tools.reader |
| 10:05 | justin_smith | erlis: any chance you put a - in the filenaes / path somewhere for module1 and module2? |
| 10:06 | justin_smith | erlis: or maybe in some other way, the name of the path / module does not reflect the directory / file structure of your project. that is usually the problem in a case like that |
| 10:07 | justin_smith | Glenjamin: this is not an emacs issue, his require forms are failing, and that means some ns is not resolving to the right file properly (since evidently he can load files defining those namespaces manually) |
| 10:21 | erlis | justin_smith: no, I don't have any dash |
| 10:21 | erlis | but I noticed that when I do cider-jack-in I got an error |
| 10:21 | erlis | I ignore it and everything works fine (that's what I think) |
| 10:22 | justin_smith | "an error" |
| 10:22 | erlis | pp something |
| 10:22 | erlis | trying to reproduce it |
| 10:23 | erlis | lol now it's not happening |
| 10:23 | erlis | but check this is my header |
| 10:23 | erlis | or better said, my ns declaration |
| 10:23 | erlis | can I paste here? |
| 10:24 | Bronsa | use a nopaste |
| 10:24 | erlis | how? |
| 10:24 | clojurebot | with style and grace |
| 10:24 | Bronsa | ~refheap |
| 10:24 | clojurebot | https://www.refheap.com/ |
| 10:24 | Bronsa | erlis: ^ |
| 10:25 | erlis | https://www.refheap.com/86554 |
| 10:25 | erlis | that's my ns declaration |
| 10:26 | erlis | https://www.refheap.com/86556 |
| 10:26 | erlis | error when I C-c C-k |
| 10:27 | erlis | you can access this code here: www.github.com/erlis/4Clojure |
| 10:27 | erlis | I would like to C-c C-k in core.clj and done |
| 10:31 | cbp | erlis: have you tried C-c C-k in elementary.clj? |
| 10:31 | cbp | Maybe there's an error there |
| 10:31 | erlis | cbp: no, I do it in answers.core |
| 10:32 | erlis | that's the file I open first |
| 10:32 | erlis | if I do C-c C-k in elementary then it will give me the error for answers.easy |
| 10:32 | erlis | and so on |
| 10:33 | rurumate | ,(bean java.aws.Color/black) |
| 10:33 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: java.aws.Color, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 10:33 | rurumate | ,(bean java.awt.Color/black) |
| 10:33 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 10:34 | scriptor | f |
| 10:34 | erlis | cbp: wait, I tried now and only gave me the error with elementary |
| 10:34 | scriptor | whoops, sorry |
| 10:35 | scriptor | also, apparently pimgus is spamming |
| 10:35 | erlis | cbp: so I did C-c C-k in elementary and after that, the same in answers.core works |
| 10:35 | erlis | what's weird is that if I do C-c C-k in elementary it will work fine, no error there |
| 10:38 | justin_smith | erlis: can you run "lein repl" in a terminal from the top of your project, and in that repl run "(require 'answers.core :as core)" and report the result? |
| 10:38 | justin_smith | err, I mean (require '[answers.core :as core]) of course, don't mind my typo |
| 10:39 | erlis | good idea let me try that |
| 10:39 | gfredericks | has anybody installed cider 0.6.0 via the package repos? I tried yesterday and still got 0.5.0 |
| 10:39 | gfredericks | why can't we just use maven for elisp packages |
| 10:39 | justin_smith | erlis: #<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.set, compiling:(answers/elementary.clj:142:13)> <- this is your problem |
| 10:40 | justin_smith | sorry, went ahead and did that myself :) |
| 10:40 | justin_smith | the problem disappears, likely because some other ns requires clojure.set and makes it load properly |
| 10:40 | erlis | and it's working? |
| 10:40 | justin_smith | it's not working |
| 10:40 | erlis | it's working here too |
| 10:40 | erlis | no? |
| 10:40 | clojurebot | no is tufflax: there was a question somewhere in there, the answer |
| 10:40 | erlis | lein repl works here |
| 10:41 | justin_smith | it fails because you use clojure.set without requiring it |
| 10:41 | justin_smith | lein repl works |
| 10:41 | justin_smith | but note that error |
| 10:41 | justin_smith | that ns does not load |
| 10:41 | justin_smith | in elementary.clj, you need to require clojure.set before you use it |
| 10:41 | erlis | wow |
| 10:41 | erlis | if you go to elementary in emacs |
| 10:42 | erlis | and do C-c C-k it will work |
| 10:42 | erlis | how is that possible |
| 10:42 | justin_smith | cider probably requires clojure.set |
| 10:42 | erlis | hmmm |
| 10:42 | justin_smith | clojure.set is loaded if any ns required it |
| 10:42 | justin_smith | that is the problem with using fully qualified names |
| 10:42 | erlis | how did you get that error? using lein? |
| 10:43 | justin_smith | don't do it |
| 10:43 | justin_smith | it disguises require errors |
| 10:43 | justin_smith | lein repl prints that error |
| 10:43 | erlis | lein repl didn't print any for me, let me try again I would like to reproduce |
| 10:43 | erlis | so I learn for the next time |
| 10:44 | justin_smith | https://www.refheap.com/86558 what it looks like when I run lein repl in that repo |
| 10:44 | erlis | https://www.refheap.com/86559 |
| 10:44 | erlis | this is mine |
| 10:45 | erlis | 59 |
| 10:45 | erlis | :) |
| 10:45 | justin_smith | also, repl doesn't work that wway |
| 10:45 | justin_smith | you need to require your code, in-ns just made the ns and did not load your ns from the file |
| 10:46 | engblom | Besides serializing data structures and spitting them to a file, is there any other way to store data structures in a file (and in a safer way) without the complexity of a full blown sql database. |
| 10:47 | justin_smith | engblom: using the pr version of vanilla datastructures and then loading with clojure.edn/read works |
| 10:47 | justin_smith | or you could use cheshire to emit json, if you care about other languages at all |
| 10:48 | engblom | justin_smith: and what happens if the program/os/computer is crashing during a write? Or we are going multithreaded? |
| 10:48 | justin_smith | erlis: try doing lein do clean repl, it could be reusing a version that successfully compiled |
| 10:48 | cbp | engblom: then you need a full blown sql database.. |
| 10:48 | erlis | I was able to reproduce it |
| 10:49 | cbp | erlis: yay |
| 10:49 | erlis | I was doing lein repl outside answers folder |
| 10:49 | justin_smith | hah |
| 10:49 | erlis | the code snipped you sent me help me with that |
| 10:49 | justin_smith | yeah, being in your project dir would help :) |
| 10:49 | erlis | wow |
| 10:49 | justin_smith | (project dir being the one containing project.clj) |
| 10:49 | erlis | thanks justin |
| 10:49 | justin_smith | np |
| 10:49 | engblom | cbp: Thanks. I had been hoping for something similar to # set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists |
| 10:49 | engblom | if [ -d "$HOME/bin" ] ; then |
| 10:49 | engblom | PATH="$HOME/bin:$PATH" |
| 10:50 | engblom | Ooops. bad paste |
| 10:50 | engblom | http://hackage.haskell.org/package/acid-state <--- That was what I wanted to paste |
| 10:52 | justin_smith | engblom: for better or worse, the clojure approach is to use an existing tool if it works. We do have, for example, datomic which gives a clojury wrapper over sql using datalog and immutible semantics. |
| 10:53 | justin_smith | but I would be surprised to se a pure clojure replacement for a db get much traction |
| 10:53 | cbp | there's a reason we're on top of java :-P |
| 10:53 | justin_smith | not because clojure would be a worse tool for the job than haskell imho, just that isn't the mainstream attitude in clojure circles |
| 10:54 | cbp | In any case you can choose to use h2 or whatever |
| 10:54 | engblom | That is a pity. I have done many sql based projects, but most of my projects are small and the extra code and complexity added by this feels unnecessary. Much of the code will be just mapping between data structures and sql database. |
| 10:55 | engblom | Being able to use the data structures directly as a persistent ACID storage would be nice |
| 10:56 | justin_smith | engblom: I mentioned datomic, that's what datomic does |
| 10:57 | justin_smith | with a clojure / cascalog flavor |
| 10:57 | justin_smith | *datalog |
| 10:57 | engblom | justin_smith: But unless I am wrong, it is not opensource and available for free. |
| 10:57 | justin_smith | (cascalog is a competing / less mature datalog in clojure) |
| 10:57 | justin_smith | engblom: you are correct |
| 10:58 | rurumate | less mature.. really? I've been using it a lot |
| 10:58 | justin_smith | engblom: we also have caribou.model, which helps make a database schema for storing clojurey stuff |
| 10:58 | justin_smith | but it is not meant to be a transperent translation of arbitrary edn to sql |
| 10:59 | justin_smith | rurumate: cascalog? I was under the impression it was less developed than datomic, maybe I am off bas there. |
| 10:59 | justin_smith | *off base |
| 10:59 | rurumate | isn't datomic proprietary? |
| 10:59 | mdrogalis | Is Cascalog actually a datalog? I know it's written that is, but I think there're a few missing properties, like recursion. |
| 11:00 | justin_smith | ahh so maybe it is immature :P |
| 11:00 | rurumate | mdrogalis: not sure what you mean. you can call any code within cascalog queries, and these in turn are allowed to recur, of course |
| 11:00 | Glenjamin | i thought cascalog was a hadoop querying thing |
| 11:00 | engblom | Cascalog seem to be opensource |
| 11:00 | rurumate | Glenjamin: exactly |
| 11:01 | rurumate | not sure why it's compared to, or portrayed as less mature than datomic |
| 11:01 | Glenjamin | the use-cases are entirely different afaik |
| 11:01 | mdrogalis | I guess you could always ask sritchie. *Cough* |
| 11:01 | justin_smith | rurumate: so is cascalog datalog, or was I just confused? |
| 11:02 | rurumate | well I have not used datalog yet but afaik it should look familiar to datalog programmer |
| 11:02 | sritchie | hey, what up? |
| 11:02 | sritchie | justin_smith: yeah, it’s totally different |
| 11:03 | sritchie | cascalog lets you use a subset of datalog to generate hadoop queries |
| 11:03 | justin_smith | totally different from datalog that is? |
| 11:03 | sritchie | no, from datomic |
| 11:03 | justin_smith | ahh ok |
| 11:03 | sritchie | the use cases are totally different, I’d say |
| 11:03 | rurumate | one is a real time thing while the other is just a dsl that compiles to hadoop / cascading jobs |
| 11:04 | mdrogalis | That being said, I've had success using both query constructs with data structures, and not their primary storage targets. |
| 11:04 | mdrogalis | So thumbs up. |
| 11:06 | rurumate | there are so many boring ways of doing java interop |
| 11:07 | michaniskin | rurumate: take the cure: https://github.com/tailrecursion/javastar |
| 11:07 | rurumate | the sad thing is that it's not easy apparently to convert nested java bean-convention objects to a map |
| 11:07 | michaniskin | hahaha |
| 11:07 | andyf | Bronsa: yep, I was messing something up. Not easy to get pprint to print all metadata, strangely. |
| 11:08 | andyf | Bronsa: But it is easy to get it to pprint *some* but not all metadata on a form |
| 11:09 | justin_smith | rurumate: naive question, what about calling bean on the thing and selecting the keys you want? |
| 11:10 | justin_smith | ,(bean "hello") |
| 11:10 | clojurebot | {:empty false, :class java.lang.String, ...} |
| 11:10 | clgv | michaniskin: what a perversion :P |
| 11:10 | Bronsa | andyf: uh? *print-length* or something else? |
| 11:10 | rurumate | justin_smith: hmm |
| 11:10 | michaniskin | clgv: it's not boring, at least |
| 11:10 | rurumate | and then write some breadh-first tree search thing |
| 11:10 | andyf | Let me find a short example |
| 11:11 | rurumate | but general bfs won't work if I have to know what keys I want in each step |
| 11:12 | rurumate | justin_smith: it's a big tree (the conf file) which i usually slurp as an edn map, now java programmer need an "easy interface" |
| 11:12 | CookedGryphon | https://github.com/clojure/java.data provides a better bean than the clojure.core one |
| 11:13 | CookedGryphon | as to-java, from-java, works recursively |
| 11:13 | rurumate | apparently passing the map is not easy, so I have to create a Conf* class & objects for each tree segmment |
| 11:13 | justin_smith | rurumate: maybe compose clojure.edn/read and cheshire/generate-string and then they can just use jackson on their end? |
| 11:13 | justin_smith | or is that not easy enough? |
| 11:13 | rurumate | I just want to convert that hideous structure back into a normal hashmap in one easy step |
| 11:13 | justin_smith | also you could use jackson to get pojo from json reliably |
| 11:14 | rurumate | the jackson approach is interesting |
| 11:14 | justin_smith | it is easy to get hashmaps from jackson, I did it recently actually |
| 11:14 | rurumate | but that would be a heavy dependency |
| 11:14 | rurumate | especially considering that I already use clojure.data.json |
| 11:15 | justin_smith | it's already a dep of cheshire if you use that |
| 11:15 | justin_smith | cheshire is better by far |
| 11:15 | rurumate | define better |
| 11:16 | justin_smith | static ObjectMapper json = new ObjectMapper(); Hashtable[] raw = json.readValue(in, Hashtable[].class); |
| 11:16 | justin_smith | |
| 11:16 | justin_smith | better = faster, easier to adapt to custom data types, more stable API across versions |
| 11:16 | rurumate | well speed and custom datatypes are not an issue here |
| 11:17 | justin_smith | OK, just saying you have other reasons to use cheshire, other than the fact that jackson is the best way to share this stuff with java |
| 11:17 | rurumate | hmm |
| 11:17 | rurumate | it was a pain to move from cheshire from data.json |
| 11:18 | justin_smith | I mean if you want, you can just turn the edn into Array and Hashtable instances etc. |
| 11:18 | justin_smith | you should be able to walk a tree and do that |
| 11:18 | justin_smith | and the java coders should know what to do with those datatypes |
| 11:18 | rurumate | but still. going through json, if all you want is to convert beans to maps, seems not ideal |
| 11:19 | justin_smith | OK - but I thought you didn't want to covnert beans to maps but rather an edn file to a map? |
| 11:21 | justin_smith | or is it that a hash table isn't an easy interface for java programmers, so they make you use beans and now you have to figure out how to use beans from clojure? maybe I am just confused |
| 11:24 | andyf | Bronsa: https://gist.github.com/jafingerhut/4350299162411f738bce |
| 11:24 | andyf | Short answer: Not a problem with tools.reader that I can find |
| 11:25 | andyf | I only thought there was because pprint was showing me some metadata, but not all |
| 11:25 | Bronsa | andyf: weird behaviour by pprint there |
| 11:26 | Bronsa | I wonder if that's intended or a bug |
| 11:27 | clgv | andyf: I ran into the same thing a while ago |
| 11:34 | rurumate | justin_smith: yes it's beans, I used to have an edn config file, now the java programmers are passing beans instead and I don't want to change everything but rather convert the beans to maps |
| 11:35 | justin_smith | OK, got it |
| 11:36 | justin_smith | I guess -> beans -> jackson -> cheshire -> maps would work, but probably be a clumsy / heavy handed way to do it |
| 11:36 | rurumate | yes there got to be another way |
| 11:37 | rurumate | afterall clojure should be easy and fun, not clumsy and dull |
| 11:37 | andyf | Bronsa, clgv: I will file a ticket categorized as a Defect, and others will decide whether it is intended or a bug |
| 11:39 | rurumate | the beans can be considered a tree and I want to convert to a very similar tree, so I need something like map but for trees |
| 11:39 | clgv | andyf: great *hoping-for-a-less-confusing-macro-debugging-future* ;) |
| 11:40 | andyf | I'll send you a link once written. I can include a temporary workaround function to use until Clojure is enhanced (if it is) |
| 11:41 | justin_smith | $doc tree-seq |
| 11:41 | hyPiRion | ,1 |
| 11:41 | justin_smith | ,(doc tree-seq) maybe... |
| 11:42 | clojurebot | 1 |
| 11:42 | clojurebot | "([branch? children ...]); Returns a lazy sequence of the nodes in a tree, via a depth-first walk. branch? must be a fn of one arg that returns true if passed a node that can have children (but may not). children must be a fn of one arg that returns a sequence of the children. Will only be called on nodes for which branch? returns true. Root is the root node of the tree." |
| 11:42 | justin_smith | there is also clojure.walk/* |
| 11:43 | justin_smith | oh, clojure.walk is only for native clojure datastructures I think |
| 11:53 | sveri1 | hi there, does someone know how to integrate test.check with midje or if its possible at all? |
| 11:57 | gfredericks | sveri1: should be possible; at worst you can make your test call test.check/quick-check and make an assertion about the result |
| 11:57 | gfredericks | this function can help: https://github.com/clojure/test.check/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/test/check.clj#L29-32 |
| 12:03 | andyf | Bronsa, clgv: Vote early, vote often: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1445 |
| 12:07 | sveri1 | gfredericks: thank you, looks a bit like a hack, but I gues sits ok |
| 12:11 | gfredericks | sveri1: that's essentially what test.check's adapter for clojure.test does |
| 12:12 | sveri1 | As I am trying out test.check I wonder its possible to submit nil or a string and expect an assertionerror if it was nil and something else if it was not nil? I got a generator which returns a string or nil, but don't know how to make test.check pass if it is nil and returns an assertionerror |
| 12:14 | gfredericks | sveri1: you should just include the logic for what you want to check for in your property |
| 12:14 | gfredericks | I don't quite understand what you were describing so I can't suggest the exact way to check for it |
| 12:16 | sveri1 | gfredericks: I have function that expects a string and that string should not be null. Now I am testing that function with test.check, which is ok as long as I dont input nil into that function. So what I want to do is test.check to test for that assertionerror if it passes nil. But I guess it's cleaner to split this into to tests, one generating strings and another one to test if the assertionerror is thrown on nil |
| 12:17 | reiddraper | sveri1: you can also just look at the value generated by test.check first, and decide what you should expect, based on whether it generated a string or nil |
| 12:19 | sveri1 | reiddraper: true, checking the case is nice too :-) |
| 12:20 | gfredericks | sometimes it can be cleaner to generate the expected behavior check as well |
| 12:22 | gfredericks | e.g., you generate a pair [input output-pred] where the latter can somehow distinguish between throwing/returning |
| 12:24 | justin_smith | gfredericks: maybe (try (output-pred (test input)) (catch Throwable t (caught-pred t))) |
| 12:24 | justin_smith | catching Throwable at runtime is bad, but for a test should be OK |
| 12:25 | gfredericks | I tend to use helper functions that wrap output to [:returned x] or [:threw e] |
| 12:26 | gfredericks | (defmacro catchingly [& body] `(try [:returned (do ~@body)] (catch Throwable t# [:threw t#]))) |
| 12:27 | justin_smith | nice |
| 12:30 | sveri1 | gfredericks: yea, that works :-) |
| 12:34 | nathan7 | gfredericks: that feels like a primitive Either |
| 12:36 | gfredericks | sounds about right |
| 12:36 | danneu | I have a weak understanding of aot-compilation and what it entails. Why does the `compojure-app` template specify `:aot :all` in project.clj? |
| 12:36 | andyf | Bronsa, clgv, arrdem, TimMc: Ticket has an attached file with function to work around the problem for now, which works with Clojure 1.6. It isn't a patch for Clojure, but something you can use now: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1445 |
| 12:36 | technomancy | danneu: that's not a good idea; it shouldn't do that. |
| 12:37 | justin_smith | danneu: it means that every namespace should be recursively compiled to bytecode |
| 12:37 | danneu | justin_smith: right, i meant 'why would...' |
| 12:37 | justin_smith | maybe the idea is in order to reduce boot time on deployment? |
| 12:37 | gfredericks | is there a lein plugin that creates shims for executable jars to avoid AOT? |
| 12:37 | technomancy | gfredericks: yeah, see lein-otf |
| 12:38 | technomancy | gfredericks: however, as of 2.4.0, uberjars have clojure.main as their main |
| 12:38 | technomancy | so you can just pass an -m arg to point it to your own ns |
| 12:38 | technomancy | err--clojure.main as their main if they don't specify their own |
| 12:39 | gfredericks | technomancy: oh hey nice |
| 12:40 | danneu | justin_smith: i have a weak understanding of jars, too. so if you specify just one namespace to be AOT compiled and then run `lein uberjar`, the rest of the namespaces are compiled on the fly every time you run the jar? |
| 12:40 | justin_smith | danneu: well, aot is contagious I think |
| 12:41 | justin_smith | but technomancy knows this stuff better than I do |
| 12:41 | justin_smith | also aot does not mean that the code is done compiling, there is still the vm hotspot optimization that kicks in at runtime |
| 12:41 | danneu | right |
| 12:43 | technomancy | :aot :all is the same as :aot some-namespace.that-requires.all-others |
| 12:45 | gfredericks | the namespace to require all other namespaces |
| 12:47 | technomancy | and in the darkness bind them? |
| 12:48 | justin_smith | well, clearly, binding is done on a per namespace basis |
| 12:48 | pjstadig | gfredericks & technomancy: doesn't have quite the same ring |
| 12:49 | pjstadig | which wasn't an intended pun at first, but I'll go with it |
| 12:49 | technomancy | nice |
| 12:50 | gfredericks | technomancy: yes, via the namespace monad presumably |
| 12:50 | gfredericks | If you don't realize that X is a monad you aren't thinking hard enough. |
| 12:51 | pjstadig | thinking of monads is the thinking of monads monad |
| 12:51 | nullptr | pjstadig: maybe... |
| 12:51 | justin_smith | turning things into jokes via self reference is the nerd humor monad |
| 12:53 | pjstadig | justin_smith: a corrolary to that is that computer science is a sub-field of mathematics, because mathematicians have the same humor schemata |
| 12:53 | gfredericks | monads are the borderline-useful-abstraction monad |
| 12:53 | pjstadig | er corollary |
| 12:53 | pjstadig | http://j.mp/ruined-joke |
| 12:53 | gfredericks | sppeling |
| 12:54 | justin_smith | wow, that tweet is from two years ago, you're psychic |
| 12:54 | gfredericks | pjstadig: I like the implication that jokes are written |
| 12:55 | gfredericks | I guess that's pretty normal though, even among the regular folks |
| 12:55 | gfredericks | with the snapchats and the hipstagrams |
| 12:57 | pjstadig | justin_smith: either psychic or i just save it around and use it often, which tells you something about my spelling abilities |
| 12:58 | gfredericks | pjstadig: or maybe it's that spelling & joking contend for the same resources |
| 12:59 | gfredericks | that hypothesis has the benefit of explaining well-spelled-but-unfunny jokes |
| 13:00 | justin_smith | funny, correctly delivered, well timed: pick 2 |
| 13:00 | pjstadig | gfredericks: this is a fruitful area for research, you should apply for a grant |
| 13:01 | gfredericks | A) Both B and C; B) B; C) none of the above;; pick 2 |
| 13:02 | justin_smith | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_been_pied |
| 13:03 | technomancy | justin_smith: even includes missed pies |
| 13:04 | gfredericks | technically any thrown pie misses almost everybody |
| 13:04 | gfredericks | you could also include pies that were accidentally not thrown |
| 13:05 | gfredericks | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_could_have_been_pied |
| 13:06 | technomancy | redirects to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people |
| 13:06 | gfredericks | omg it just occurred to me that this could totally exist and then it did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists |
| 13:06 | pjstadig | this Les Entartistes is a prolific pieing perpetrator |
| 13:06 | justin_smith | I remember finding that, ages ago |
| 13:06 | technomancy | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_honour |
| 13:07 | justin_smith | gfredericks: this one got deleted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists_of_lists |
| 13:07 | gfredericks | repeatedly, apparently |
| 13:08 | gfredericks | some of the lists of lists linked to appear to just be single pages with sections |
| 13:08 | pjstadig | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_not_on_Wikipedia_lists |
| 13:09 | arrdem | complement set of of the set of lists :P |
| 13:09 | gfredericks | why did I start this nonexisting wikipedia page joke |
| 13:09 | justin_smith | ,(repeatedly 3 #(list (list (list) (list) (list)) (list (list) (list)) (list (list)) (list))) |
| 13:09 | clojurebot | (((() () ...) (() ()) ...) ((() () ...) (() ()) ...) ...) |
| 13:10 | justin_smith | pjstadig: Russel had something to say about that one |
| 13:10 | pjstadig | http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/rdcheck.py?page=Russell%27s_paradox |
| 13:10 | gfredericks | ,((fn f [x] (->> (repeatedly rand) (take-while #(< % x)) (map f))) 0.93) |
| 13:10 | clojurebot | (() ((() ())) ...) |
| 13:11 | justin_smith | gfredericks: much more elegant, though I was going for semantic overload on the token "list" |
| 13:22 | technomancy | http://blog.jorgenschaefer.de/2014/06/the-sorry-state-of-emacs-lisp-package.html somewhat relevant to some |
| 13:24 | TimMc | gfredericks: I'm partial to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_pairs |
| 13:25 | TimMc | I want to put a disambiguation hatnote at the top saying "Also see: [[association list]]" |
| 13:25 | technomancy | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_married_couples_among_space_travelers |
| 13:26 | TimMc | :-D |
| 13:26 | technomancy | "Lee and Davis had met during training for the flight and had married in secret. They disclosed their marriage to NASA shortly before the flight, when it was too late to train a substitute. NASA has since changed the rules and will not allow married astronauts on the same flight." |
| 13:26 | TimMc | I guess the splitters are winning. |
| 13:27 | hiredman | if you want to call that winning |
| 13:27 | justin_smith | technomancy: fix for the the Melpa version number problem: start all your package numbers with Inf |
| 13:28 | hyPiRion | I expected a section named "In Fiction", but alas |
| 13:29 | justin_smith | or actually, maybe just ZZZZZz |
| 13:29 | TimMc | This always reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_Emporium_of_Benevolent_Knowledge |
| 13:31 | justin_smith | that list is classic |
| 13:31 | dbasch | technomancy: the nice thing about Borges is that all his stories are short and pack a punch |
| 13:31 | TimMc | technomancy: May I also recommend the webcomic The Secret Knots. |
| 13:32 | TimMc | Anything after 2006 (during which the author seems to have been finding his rhythm.) |
| 13:32 | dbasch | technomancy: I know you’ve read some Borges when your projects have names like Tlön or Uqbar :P |
| 13:32 | technomancy | dbasch: \m/ |
| 13:32 | TimMc | Many of the comics (such as the latest one) seem a bit Borges...ian. |
| 13:33 | dbasch | technomancy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uqbar |
| 13:33 | technomancy | nice; metafictional |
| 13:33 | dbasch | very lispy |
| 13:33 | dbasch | that is just begging for some software to be named after it |
| 13:34 | PigDude | does eastwood always report functions with arities [foo & bar] as misused when called as (f v), omitting the optional "bar"? |
| 13:34 | justin_smith | mock object of some type? |
| 13:34 | TimMc | Santapau uses story-within-a-story for a lot of his comics. |
| 13:34 | PigDude | seems like a bug |
| 13:35 | stephenjudkins | i'm confused about how anonymous functions and -> interact |
| 13:35 | stephenjudkins | why does this work: |
| 13:35 | stephenjudkins | ' (map #(+ 1 %) [1 2 3]) |
| 13:35 | stephenjudkins | , (map #(+ 1 %) [1 2 3]) |
| 13:35 | clojurebot | (2 3 ...) |
| 13:36 | stephenjudkins | and this work: |
| 13:36 | justin_smith | stephenjudkins: macroexpand helps a lot when figuring out -> |
| 13:36 | dbasch | stephenjudkins: that is basically the same as (map inc [1 2 3]) |
| 13:36 | stephenjudkins | , (map #(-> (+ (+ 1 %) 5)) [1 2 3]) |
| 13:36 | clojurebot | (4 2 ...) |
| 13:36 | stephenjudkins | while this does not: |
| 13:36 | stephenjudkins | , (map #(-> + 1 %) [1 2 3]) |
| 13:36 | clojurebot | #<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn> |
| 13:37 | justin_smith | ,(macroexpand '(map #(-> + 1 %) [1 2 3])) |
| 13:37 | clojurebot | (map (fn* [p1__106#] ...) ...) |
| 13:37 | technomancy | when in doubt, macroexpand |
| 13:37 | dbasch | stephenjudkins: that inserts the vector between + and 1 |
| 13:37 | justin_smith | ,(macroexpand '#(-> + 1 %)) |
| 13:37 | clojurebot | (fn* [p1__131#] ...) |
| 13:37 | dbasch | sorry, not the vector |
| 13:38 | justin_smith | that's some pretty agressive truncation there... |
| 13:38 | stephenjudkins | justin_smith: yeah, it's unfortunate. thankfully i'm just copypastaing to my own repl :) |
| 13:38 | dbasch | that tries to do things to + |
| 13:39 | justin_smith | it tries to call 1 with + as an argument |
| 13:40 | justin_smith | ,(macroexpand '(-> + 1)) embedded in that output |
| 13:40 | clojurebot | (1 +) |
| 13:40 | TimMc | ,*print-length* |
| 13:40 | clojurebot | 2 |
| 13:40 | TimMc | That's absurd. |
| 13:41 | justin_smith | indeed it is |
| 13:41 | PigDude | ,(-> + (partial #(partial % 1)) 3) |
| 13:41 | TimMc | hiredman: I think clojurebot's *print-length* of 2 is a bit short... |
| 13:41 | clojurebot | #<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn> |
| 13:41 | hiredman | it is, that doesn't seem right |
| 13:41 | TimMc | ,[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]] |
| 13:41 | clojurebot | [[[[[[[#]]]]]]] |
| 13:41 | TimMc | Maybe length and depth are reversed? |
| 13:42 | justin_smith | alright who flipped printing on its side again? |
| 13:42 | PigDude | stephenjudkins: when you do -> +, like dbasch said, you're operating on the plus function |
| 13:42 | PigDude | ,((-> + (partial 1)) 4) |
| 13:42 | clojurebot | 2 |
| 13:43 | PigDude | well no, that's 5, but thanks clojurebot |
| 13:43 | hiredman | I suspect someone monkeying with the sandbox |
| 13:43 | dbasch | ,(-> + type) |
| 13:43 | clojurebot | clojure.core$_PLUS_ |
| 13:43 | justin_smith | ,(range 10) |
| 13:43 | clojurebot | eval service is offline |
| 13:43 | hiredman | ,(+ 1 2) |
| 13:43 | clojurebot | 3 |
| 13:43 | hiredman | ,5 |
| 13:43 | clojurebot | 5 |
| 13:44 | metellus | ,4 |
| 13:44 | clojurebot | 4 |
| 13:44 | hiredman | sometimes I wonder why I bother |
| 13:44 | justin_smith | ,(range 10) |
| 13:44 | clojurebot | (0 1 2 3 4 ...) |
| 13:50 | stephenjudkins | i don't yet fully understand what's going on |
| 13:51 | stephenjudkins | but thanks for your help. macroexpand will be very useful to me in the future |
| 13:52 | justin_smith | stephenjudkins: clojurebot got in a weird state |
| 13:53 | arrdem | ,4 |
| 13:53 | clojurebot | eval service is offline |
| 13:53 | arrdem | well at least 3 isn't 4 right now.. |
| 13:53 | dbasch | stephenjudkins: -> x a b c is the same as (c (b (a x))) |
| 13:54 | dbasch | (-> x a b c) that is |
| 13:58 | gfredericks | &(macroexpand-1 '(-> x (a b) c (d e f))) |
| 13:58 | lazybot | ⇒ (clojure.core/-> (clojure.core/-> x (a b)) c (d e f)) |
| 13:58 | gfredericks | &*clojure-version* |
| 13:58 | lazybot | ⇒ {:major 1, :minor 4, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil} |
| 13:58 | gfredericks | &(alter-var-root #'*clojure-version* assoc :minor 6) |
| 13:58 | lazybot | java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! alter-var-root is bad! |
| 14:03 | gfredericks | clojurebot: You |tripped| the alarm! alter-var-root is bad! |
| 14:03 | clojurebot | You don't have to tell me twice. |
| 14:18 | llasram | clojurebot: You? |
| 14:18 | clojurebot | You tripped the alarm! |
| 14:19 | llasram | Infinite amusement |
| 14:19 | squidz | Does anybody know how to tell cljsbuild to recompile clojurescript when a given file/directory changes? |
| 14:19 | squidz | I want to recompile when some javascript that is included in my project changes |
| 14:20 | justin_smith | lein cljsbuild auto |
| 14:20 | justin_smith | I like "nohup lein cljsbould auto" in order to leave it running without wasting a window on it |
| 14:20 | squidz | justin_smith: that recompiles when clojurescript files change, but how do I tell it to recompile when non-clojurescript files change? |
| 14:23 | squidz | justin_smith: do you know what I mean? |
| 14:23 | justin_smith | I do, but I'm not sure how to do that |
| 14:23 | justin_smith | I thought that if the file was a proper dependency in a cljs file that it would trigger a recompile, but that is clearly wrong |
| 14:24 | squidz | hm okay does anybody have an idea |
| 14:28 | prachetasp | anyone done any sentiment analysis in java/clojure that can recommend a library? |
| 14:32 | squidz | justin_smith: okay, I have to use :libs in the cljsbuild settings. All changes in the directories listed in :libs will recompile on change |
| 14:33 | justin_smith | oh, nice |
| 14:33 | justin_smith | I expected something like that, but have only done a little cljs so I didn't know the details |
| 14:33 | igor | hi everybody |
| 14:33 | igor | may be someone could help me |
| 14:34 | igor | I'm trying to understand how I use emacs/cider to develop a compojure/ring-based program |
| 14:34 | igor | I understand perfectly that I can change files of the project |
| 14:35 | justin_smith | OK |
| 14:35 | igor | and the program will automatically reload them (like django etc) |
| 14:35 | igor | but I can't understand |
| 14:35 | technomancy | igor: it's simpler if you just recompile on save from cider |
| 14:35 | technomancy | you can use a hook if you like |
| 14:35 | igor | how I can attach directly to the running process |
| 14:35 | aaelony | prachetasp: I haven't read it yet, but have you seen http://www.packtpub.com/mastering-clojure-data-analysis/book#chapter_6 |
| 14:35 | justin_smith | igor: in my experience, the best way is to use nrepl.server to start a repl host from your app, and then connect to that via emacs, and then you can evaluate code in the context of the running app |
| 14:35 | igor | for example, I would like to |
| 14:36 | igor | write something, then press c-c c-c and have it in my process |
| 14:36 | justin_smith | igor: https://github.com/clojure/tools.nrepl it shows how to start a repl from inside your code |
| 14:36 | justin_smith | then, in emacs, M-x cider prompts for a port to connect to, tell it the port your app is serving |
| 14:37 | technomancy | igor: you just need the HTTP server launched from the same process as the repl. |
| 14:37 | justin_smith | technomancy: well, there is that too |
| 14:37 | technomancy | you can embed nrepl in your program, or you can launch your HTTP server from cider |
| 14:37 | igor | justin, thank you, that means that I must embed repl to my process |
| 14:37 | igor | then start the process |
| 14:37 | igor | then attach to it |
| 14:37 | igor | right? |
| 14:37 | justin_smith | or, as technomancy mentions, you can start the process from inside a repl, one or the other |
| 14:37 | technomancy | igor: that's one option, but you don't need to do that; you can just kick off jetty from cider |
| 14:38 | justin_smith | I find embedding the repl in the process handier (lets me debug uberjars etc.) |
| 14:38 | technomancy | it's nicer for production |
| 14:38 | igor | ok, thank you guys, I will repeat it that to be sure that I understand the things right |
| 14:38 | igor | So |
| 14:38 | igor | I have two options |
| 14:38 | igor | 1) embed repl into process |
| 14:38 | technomancy | but it's a bit more setup up-front |
| 14:38 | igor | 2) start jetty from cider directly |
| 14:38 | igor | right? |
| 14:38 | technomancy | yeah |
| 14:38 | justin_smith | right |
| 14:39 | igor | ok, so and then what option is better for me, depends on the situation |
| 14:39 | justin_smith | technomancy: one line for the dep, one line for the require, one line for the "should I start a repl" conditional, one line for starting the repl, four lines of setup in two files is not so bad |
| 14:39 | igor | for example, if I'm developing a production server |
| 14:39 | igor | that first option is better |
| 14:40 | igor | if I just try to write some small peace of code from scratch |
| 14:40 | igor | it's better to start with cider and run jetty in it |
| 14:40 | justin_smith | sounds about right, yeah |
| 14:41 | igor | Ok, but if I embed repl into process I have no disadvantages at all, right? I just strt the process connect to it and do what I want? |
| 14:41 | technomancy | justin_smith: true. |
| 14:41 | justin_smith | well, not no disadvantages |
| 14:41 | technomancy | igor: you get a few conveniences from leiningen launching the repl |
| 14:41 | justin_smith | but I find it more convenient |
| 14:42 | justin_smith | unless you are going to restart jetty frequently - then starting jetty from a repl is convenient |
| 14:42 | igor | In what case do I need to restart jetty? |
| 14:42 | technomancy | justin_smith: do you still use jack-in then? |
| 14:42 | igor | I can change by functions without restarting it, right? |
| 14:42 | justin_smith | no, not jack-in |
| 14:43 | justin_smith | I am still on nrepl, I run "M-x nrepl" instead of "M-x nrepl-jack-in" |
| 14:43 | justin_smith | igor: right, just make sure you give ring your #'handler instead of handler, so it knows to update when the var changes |
| 14:44 | justin_smith | then, if you rebind some middleware, you may need to redefine the handler, but it will all just work |
| 14:44 | justin_smith | but otherwise, yeah, redefine a function and its just using the new function, pretty straightforward |
| 14:45 | igor | ok |
| 14:45 | igor | thank you very much guys |
| 14:45 | igor | I will try these two methods |
| 14:45 | technomancy | I guess that's the main downside; I'm used to just jacking in and running from there. |
| 14:45 | tjd | is there a good convention in clojure to say "this function gets a remote resource that has state, so it might return a different value if you call it again with the same args later"? |
| 14:46 | justin_smith | technomancy: I actually like starting the process in its own terminal outside emacs - for example I am less likely to miss messages logged by the code that way |
| 14:46 | technomancy | justin_smith: how is that different from checking *nrpl-server* |
| 14:47 | justin_smith | technomancy: well, my emacs / repl integration hasn't always been so stable or reliable in behavior, and I know for a fact everything will show up in the terminal |
| 14:47 | _alejand1o | tjd: It's not uncommon to put `!` at the end of an impure function name |
| 14:47 | justin_smith | but yeah, I could check *nrepl-server* and that would probably work |
| 14:48 | _alejand1o | tjd: although, I usually only do it for lower level functions, and not for other functions that depend on impure functions |
| 14:48 | hiredman | or, you know, configuring logging to log to a file at dev time |
| 14:48 | justin_smith | _alejand1o: but that function doesn't mutate, it just observes state |
| 14:48 | _alejand1o | justin_smith: yeah, that's a fair point. not sure of a convention then |
| 14:48 | tjd | it's almost like a (deref ...), except the remote resource doesn't have any concurrency semantics to speak of |
| 14:49 | amalloy | tjd: there is no such convention |
| 14:49 | technomancy | justin_smith: pretty sure there's no difference as far as output goes |
| 14:51 | justin_smith | yeah. I'm just UI wise less likely to miss stuff in my process terminal, and am used to a process I run owning a terminal. It's a comfort / familiarity thing as much as anything else. |
| 14:53 | gfredericks | thinking about making a special kind of var that prints as: #_"helpful info" #"var/name |
| 14:54 | amalloy | gfredericks: var is final, so...? |
| 14:54 | gfredericks | I've never seen anybody use #_ to add messages-for-humans to readable things |
| 14:54 | gfredericks | amalloy: clojure.core/type |
| 14:54 | arrdem | ,(read-string "#_\"foo\" #'clojure.core/conj") |
| 14:54 | clojurebot | eval service is offline |
| 14:55 | gfredericks | #'var/name is what I meant above of course |
| 14:55 | amalloy | so? it still has to be a Var object to live in a namespace, no? |
| 14:55 | arrdem | ##(read-string "#_\"foo\" #'clojure.core/conj") |
| 14:55 | lazybot | ⇒ (var clojure.core/conj) |
| 14:55 | arrdem | hum... interesting |
| 14:55 | gfredericks | amalloy: yeah I didn't mean a different class |
| 14:55 | amalloy | of course you can build an object that prints that way, but it can't be a var |
| 14:55 | gfredericks | just different print-method behavior |
| 14:55 | gfredericks | sure it can |
| 14:57 | amalloy | oh, i see |
| 14:58 | amalloy | i didn't get what you meant about c.c/type |
| 14:58 | gfredericks | yeah am be confuse today |
| 15:05 | cbp | hmm I could swear there was a forv function |
| 15:05 | cbp | marco* |
| 15:06 | johnwalker | whats forv? |
| 15:06 | cbp | like (into [] (for..)) |
| 15:06 | SegFaultAX | Presumably a strict variant of for that yields a vector instead of a list. |
| 15:06 | clojurebot | excusez-moi |
| 15:06 | SegFaultAX | Is that in c.c? |
| 15:06 | johnwalker | ahh |
| 15:07 | cbp | it's not in core. I thought it was |
| 15:08 | SegFaultAX | cbp: Phew, I thought I had just been mentally ignoring it for the last 2 years. :) |
| 15:09 | cbp | I thought it got added along with mapv :-P |
| 15:12 | gfredericks | &'#'#'#'#'#'#'foo |
| 15:12 | lazybot | ⇒ (var (var (var (var (var (var foo)))))) |
| 15:13 | llasram | gfredericks: Ha! Reader macros |
| 15:13 | gfredericks | reader macros make a great party joke |
| 15:14 | llasram | Or even a great party game. Try reader macros instead of "Apples to Apples" at your next party! |
| 15:15 | gfredericks | &(read-string (str (apply str (repeatedly 10 #(rand-nth ["#'" "@" "'"]))) "foo")) |
| 15:15 | lazybot | ⇒ (quote (clojure.core/deref (clojure.core/deref (quote (var (clojure.core/deref (quote (var (var (quote foo)))))))))) |
| 15:15 | justin_smith | or the adult alternative, "quotation rules against sanity" |
| 15:15 | llasram | nice |
| 15:15 | gfredericks | &(read-string (str (apply str (repeatedly 10 #(rand-nth ["#'" "@" "'" "~"]))) "foo")) |
| 15:15 | lazybot | ⇒ (var (clojure.core/unquote (clojure.core/unquote-splicing (clojure.core/deref (var (clojure.core/unquote (var (quote (quote foo))))))))) |
| 15:21 | gfredericks | (require '[clojure.walk :as clojure.core]) ;; <- don't do that |
| 15:31 | TimMc | :-D |
| 15:32 | cbp | No such var: clojure.core/fn |
| 15:33 | TimMc | (require '[clojure.walk :as clojure.lang.RT]) |
| 15:33 | cbp | heh i cant go back to the ns i did that |
| 15:34 | justin_smith | cbp: well a restart would clearly fix it, but maybe ns-unmap would do the trick? |
| 15:35 | cbp | justin_smith: probably remove-ns |
| 15:36 | justin_smith | cbp: I was thinking some combination of ns-publics on clojure.walk with ns-unmap on the contaminated ns |
| 15:37 | prachetasp | aaelony: did see that - working my way through the clojure data analysis cookbook first actually |
| 15:38 | stephenjudkins | in `fn` or `defn` it's possible to do multiple statements before the final expression that returns |
| 15:40 | stephenjudkins | is it possible to this with an anonymous expression? |
| 15:41 | stephenjudkins | i'm doing an if, and i'd like put a debug statement in one of the legs |
| 15:41 | justin_smith | stephenjudkins: yes, with do |
| 15:41 | cbp | stephenjudkins: #(do..) |
| 15:41 | cbp | justin_smith: damn it |
| 15:41 | justin_smith | but if it is long enough for do, you would probably want to use fn anyway |
| 15:41 | stephenjudkins | justin_smith, cbp : thanks |
| 15:41 | stephenjudkins | yes, i was debugging by doing that |
| 15:41 | stephenjudkins | but `do` seems like a quicker solution |
| 15:42 | cbp | stephenjudkins: debugging? :-P |
| 15:43 | stephenjudkins | cbp: trying to write pure functional stuff, but throwing in some prints to see what's going on |
| 15:43 | cbp | stephenjudkins: doto might be better |
| 15:43 | cbp | ,(doto 1 (print)) |
| 15:43 | clojurebot | 11 |
| 15:44 | stephenjudkins | cbp: that is nice |
| 15:45 | devn | xeqi: technomancy: _ato: If you get a chance could we get a deploy of will's change deployed: https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/pull/217 |
| 15:45 | devn | derp, redundancy department of redundancy |
| 15:46 | dbasch | quick puzzle if anyone wants to waste some time. Given the three letter codes for all countries in the world cup, which potential matches would be valid six-letter english words? |
| 15:46 | dbasch | list here: http://pastebin.com/z4BKLUwy |
| 15:47 | devn | dbasch: i dont totally follow |
| 15:47 | stephenjudkins | cbp: (doto ... (print)) is a lot like haskell's debug.trace |
| 15:47 | dbasch | devn: hun-arg is not a valid word, for example |
| 15:47 | dbasch | without the dash of course |
| 15:47 | devn | oh, so the cartesian product of that list |
| 15:48 | devn | and then check against a dictionary |
| 15:48 | dbasch | I was a bit disappointed by the results |
| 15:49 | dbasch | devn: https://www.refheap.com/86565 |
| 15:49 | dbasch | devn: oops https://www.refheap.com/86566 |
| 15:52 | devn | dbasch: can they be in any order? |
| 15:52 | devn | and can you use the same thing twice? |
| 15:52 | devn | like MEXMEX |
| 15:53 | llasram | "And the final match of the World Cup will be -- Mexico versus Mexico!" |
| 15:54 | johnwalker | llasram: who will win? |
| 15:54 | llasram | That's the great thing about sports -- you never know what will happen |
| 15:54 | technomancy | one team will probably score more points than the other |
| 15:55 | technomancy | that's what usually happens |
| 15:55 | AimHere | Not in football |
| 15:55 | devn | sportsball |
| 15:55 | AimHere | I think 0-0 is about the second or third most likely scoreline |
| 15:55 | borkdude | I have a question about seesaw. In a listener function I do this: (println *ns*). As a result 'clojure.core is printed. How does that work? |
| 15:55 | johnwalker | oh my _god_ |
| 15:55 | johnwalker | a new quil release |
| 15:55 | johnwalker | and clojurescript quil is a thing |
| 15:55 | dbasch | (inc llasram) |
| 15:56 | devn | basketsball, feetball, basesball -- they make /baskets/, there is more than one base, and there are many feet involved |
| 15:56 | llasram | borkdude: The dynamic value of *ns* is clojure.core except when loading is actually happening |
| 15:56 | dbasch | chichi is actually a word |
| 15:56 | devn | scrabble knows! |
| 15:57 | llasram | borkdude: Which has tripped me up before, but makes sense when you squint at it |
| 15:57 | nbeloglazov | johnwalker: yep! alpha version of cljs support will be available soon |
| 15:58 | borkdude | llasram I am trying to do (source-fn 'alert) in a listener, so the source of the alert function from seesaw.core is shown |
| 15:58 | borkdude | llasram seesaw tutorial |
| 15:58 | gfredericks | lein-release causes me to release things like every other commit |
| 15:58 | gfredericks | it's just too easy |
| 15:58 | johnwalker | ,(inc nbeloglazov) |
| 15:58 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: nbeloglazov in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 15:58 | technomancy | gfredericks: addictive, innit |
| 16:00 | johnwalker | whatever, i'll figure it out later. thanks for your work on quil |
| 16:00 | johnwalker | i've wanted that for a long time |
| 16:00 | johnwalker | the functional mode also looks like |
| 16:01 | technomancy | quil's has a non-imperative mode? |
| 16:01 | johnwalker | it's new, you should check it out |
| 16:01 | johnwalker | https://github.com/quil/quil/wiki/Functional-mode-%28fun-mode%29 |
| 16:01 | nbeloglazov | technomancy: 'draw' is still imperative. But other functions can be pure. As well as 'update' function was added. |
| 16:02 | technomancy | yay! |
| 16:02 | borkdude | fully qualifying the symbol worked |
| 16:04 | technomancy | heh, 2+ years between opening and closing https://github.com/quil/quil/pull/19 but it looks like it was worth the wait =) |
| 16:05 | nbeloglazov | technomancy: yes, the pull request was very useful :) |
| 16:12 | TimMc | technomancy: What I'm still missing in lein-release is a way to automatically dump the new version into some source file so that the artifact can know its own version. |
| 16:13 | TimMc | That and it should also update my changelog for me. :-P |
| 16:13 | nDuff | Huh. Last time I looked at lein-release it was missing something critical |
| 16:13 | nDuff | ...jar-signing, maybe? |
| 16:14 | TimMc | That too, maybe. |
| 16:17 | nkozo | I'm having a very weird problem when getting var metadata |
| 16:17 | llasram | (inc hugod) |
| 16:17 | llasram | Well, that not-actually-happening karma is for Alembic |
| 16:18 | justin_smith | nkozo: what's a weird problem? |
| 16:18 | llasram | I just added like the 5th library to my REPL w/o restarting, and was thinking about sad I'd have been if each one was a restart |
| 16:18 | nkozo | (def ^:mykey a) (let [v (def a)] [(meta v) (identical? v #'a)]) ;==> mykey is not present but identical? returns true, is the same var |
| 16:19 | justin_smith | nkozo: that def inside the let should be replacing the metadata on the previous def |
| 16:20 | nkozo | justin_smith: I thought it was only a lookup, like resolve |
| 16:20 | justin_smith | def is always namespace scope, it's replacing what existed before |
| 16:20 | technomancy | nDuff: is this the lein-release plugin or the new release task in lein 2.4? |
| 16:20 | technomancy | it signs jars now |
| 16:20 | nDuff | I was referring to the plugin. |
| 16:21 | nDuff | re: having a task built in now... shiny! |
| 16:21 | technomancy | TimMc: as for version-awareness, do you know about pom.properties? |
| 16:21 | justin_smith | nkozo: oh, ok, def without an arg will not clobber, you are right |
| 16:21 | nkozo | justin_smith, but the var's value doesn't change, only his metadata. |
| 16:22 | technomancy | nDuff: yeah, it's a lot more flexible now |
| 16:22 | justin_smith | nkozo: so it seems def removes metadata, even when called with no args |
| 16:22 | technomancy | basically just a user-overridable chain of tasks to cut a release |
| 16:22 | justin_smith | it is not just a lookup |
| 16:23 | nkozo | so the question is, removing metadata is a feature or a bug? :) |
| 16:23 | justin_smith | nkozo: to me, for def to be called twice on the same var is a sign something is wrong |
| 16:23 | llasram | ditto |
| 16:23 | justin_smith | more "don't do that then" |
| 16:23 | nkozo | justin_smith: is a simple case, check (source defmulti), it does the same thing to lookup the var |
| 16:24 | llasram | And causes all sorts of problems in the process |
| 16:24 | justin_smith | nkozo: it checks if it is bound before calling def |
| 16:25 | justin_smith | oh, wait, I am wrong |
| 16:25 | justin_smith | it uses def in the let |
| 16:26 | nkozo | yes, it tries to do nothing if the var already has a multifn |
| 16:26 | justin_smith | right, but it calls def before that |
| 16:26 | nkozo | but seeing this def behaviour, the multifn var metadata will be destroyed in that check |
| 16:26 | justin_smith | thus removing metadata, if there was any |
| 16:26 | justin_smith | right |
| 16:26 | nkozo | seems like a bug to me |
| 16:27 | justin_smith | why not use resolve to look up the var? |
| 16:27 | nkozo | because resolve doesn't work in my more-complex case |
| 16:28 | nkozo | but I need to re-evaluate it |
| 16:28 | TimMc | technomancy: I know about pom.properties, but that's not available with lein repl. |
| 16:29 | technomancy | TimMc: right, which is dumb. |
| 16:29 | technomancy | we should make the same thing work everywhere |
| 16:29 | TimMc | I once tried cobbling something together that could read from project.clj or pom.properties or... Yeah. |
| 16:29 | arohner | I'm upgrading from nrepl to cider, and trying to get some old behavior back. Previously, if I was inside a form, (re-find foo bar), the minibuffer would show the arity part of the docstring. How do I get that back? |
| 16:29 | TimMc | Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions on what to change. |
| 16:30 | technomancy | TimMc: what about writing pom.properties to target/classes? |
| 16:32 | llasram | arohner: The `eldoc` minor mode is what handles that |
| 16:32 | llasram | Wait |
| 16:32 | llasram | I lied |
| 16:32 | llasram | Or at least you need more than to just turn it on :-) |
| 16:33 | arohner | llasram: good, because I have 'cider-turn-on-eldoc-mode |
| 16:33 | llasram | haha |
| 16:34 | llasram | Ugh, well, I'm running an old version of CIDER (without that function), so am afraid I'm not able to help |
| 16:36 | arohner | llasram: ah, figured it out. I misspelled the hook name when converting my config file |
| 16:36 | arohner | I should have just thrown out my nrepl config and started over |
| 16:44 | TimMc | technomancy: Something like that, yeah! |
| 16:45 | TimMc | technomancy: We have a client library that would very much like to be able to report its own version when it talks to the server so that we can debug errors more better. |
| 16:45 | technomancy | TimMc: I'll see if I can get it into 2.4.1 |
| 16:45 | TimMc | woot |
| 16:56 | nkozo | justin_smith: just for the record, I reported the (def v) bug at http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1446 |
| 16:59 | justin_smith | OK |
| 17:07 | pjstadig | nkozo: the same problem would occur with defonce |
| 17:10 | nkozo | pjstadig: defonce macroexpand to a def, but you can use it to resolve the var in the let step of the test case |
| 17:18 | nkozo | pjstadig: note, there was a similar case reported for defonce: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1148 |
| 17:37 | seancorfield | In Scala, if I have two functions, f and g, that return Option[Int] and I want to conditionally add the ints if both are present, I can do: for (x <- f(); y <- g()) yield x+y - in Clojure, f and g would likely return nil or an int so what is the most elegant way to do that same computation? |
| 17:38 | hiredman | seancorfield: if you were to use algo.monads you could do the same as in scala |
| 17:38 | seancorfield | Yeah, I was hoping for something idiomatic in the core tho'... |
| 17:38 | gfredericks | does algo.monads have a for-like macro helper? |
| 17:39 | hiredman | seancorfield: funny because you have the last commit to master in the algo.monads repo |
| 17:39 | seancorfield | only because i updated the pom or the contributing file :) |
| 17:39 | seancorfield | I have the last commit on quite a few contrib libs because of that... |
| 17:39 | hiredman | gfredericks: it has some kind of notation |
| 17:40 | justin_smith | seancorfield: not nearly as elegant, but the semantics work (defn combine-if [a b] (if-let [ab (remove nil? [a b])] (apply + ab))) |
| 17:40 | seancorfield | background: this came up because of a discussion about Java 8 which adds an Optional<T> type with map and flatMap functions |
| 17:40 | justin_smith | well with + we don't even need the if-let actually |
| 17:40 | hfaafb | clojure? i 'ardly know her! |
| 17:41 | justin_smith | (defn combine-if [a b] (apply + (remove nil? [a b]))) |
| 17:41 | whodidthis | how do i "\"cools\"" -> "cools" |
| 17:41 | seancorfield | so you can write: Optional<Integer> a= f(); Optional<Integer> b = g(); Optional<Integer> c = a.flatMap( x -> b.map( y -> x + y ) ); |
| 17:42 | gfredericks | https://www.refheap.com/86569 ;; <-- forsome |
| 17:42 | seancorfield | justin_smith: that's quite nice... and rewritten as (->> [(f) (g)] (remove nil?) (apply +)) looks fairly clean (to me) |
| 17:43 | gfredericks | justin_smith: seancorfield: doesn't work if you want nil when any input is nil |
| 17:43 | seancorfield | ah, good point gfredericks |
| 17:43 | justin_smith | gfredericks: true, it gives you the additive identity instead |
| 17:43 | gfredericks | justin_smith: also if just one is nil it gives you the other one |
| 17:43 | gfredericks | it's the shrug monad |
| 17:44 | justin_smith | heh |
| 17:44 | justin_smith | that part was intentional (even if wrong) |
| 17:44 | gfredericks | after using test.check I'm a fan of the for syntax for monadic things |
| 17:45 | gfredericks | forsome is missing the :let feature |
| 17:45 | gfredericks | I don't think :when applies |
| 17:45 | seancorfield | gfredericks: that macro is what i'm looking for... pity there's nothing in core like that :) |
| 17:46 | gfredericks | another problem quasisolved with macros! |
| 17:46 | seancorfield | and, yeah, getting a or b or 0 from justin_smith's code was the problem i kept running into when trying to solve this with just core functions :( |
| 17:49 | seancorfield | it's a pity when-let doesn't accept multiple bindings and test each for truthiness... (when-let [a (f) b (g)] (+ a b)) |
| 17:49 | arrdem | seancorfield: when-let+ :P |
| 17:49 | seancorfield | :) |
| 17:50 | hiredman | it is there, in algo.monads |
| 17:50 | hiredman | exactly that |
| 17:51 | hiredman | that is literal what domonad does with the maybe monad |
| 17:57 | seancorfield | yeah... maybe I'll break down and use monads :) |
| 17:57 | seancorfield | (domonad maybe-m [a (f) b (g)] (+ a b)) |
| 18:17 | allenj12 | when i use goog.require('example.core') in html script, will it be reffering to the same namespace i declare in my example.cljs? or does it take a new name under core or something |
| 18:18 | nDuff | allenj12, the names map directly, no changes. |
| 18:19 | allenj12 | nDuff: interesting, goog.require cant seem to find the namespace then. |
| 18:19 | allenj12 | nDuff: thanks |
| 18:22 | mi6x3m | hey clojure, is support-forward-navigation? a good function name |
| 18:22 | mi6x3m | I can't decide on a name |
| 18:25 | justin_smith | mi6x3m: are you checking whether you should support forward nav, or whether something else should? |
| 18:25 | justin_smith | or does? |
| 18:25 | mi6x3m | justin_smith: I check whether a component supports it |
| 18:26 | justin_smith | i'd say supports-forward-nav |
| 18:26 | justin_smith | I think nav there is unambiguous |
| 18:26 | justin_smith | even supports-fwd-nav maybe (that could be going to far) |
| 18:26 | arrdem | I agree with "supports" rather than "support" |
| 18:26 | arrdem | just sounds awkward otherwise |
| 18:27 | mi6x3m | supports-forward-nav it is :) |
| 18:27 | justin_smith | support- indicates to me that it is a request, and we are checking if the request asks us to support that thing |
| 18:27 | mi6x3m | ok, some more questions about names. callback-js! for installing a function to be called from javascript, cookie for returning a named session cookie, cookies! for setting a bunch of cookies |
| 18:28 | justin_smith | callback-js, to me, sounds like the name for a function that would execute javascript's callback (or cause it to be executed) |
| 18:29 | justin_smith | maybe install-js-callback! ? |
| 18:29 | mi6x3m | yeah, good plan |
| 18:48 | allenj12 | has anyone ever gotten this warning WARNING: unsigned-bit-shift-right already refers to: #'clojure.core/unsigned-bit -shift-right in namespace: cljs.core, being replaced by: #'cljs.core/unsigned-bi t-shift-right |
| 18:49 | toxmeister | allenj12: yes, that will go away if you upgrade you cljs to the branch using clj 1.6... |
| 18:49 | toxmeister | allenj12: it's because cljs already defined that fn earlier than clojure did (only was added w/ 1.6.0) |
| 18:51 | toxmeister | allenj12: am not sure if there's already a release of that branch, but easy enough to build yourself (also see: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/clojurescript/MEFJ5D7g8yM/ndrzWn6KxpMJ) |
| 18:51 | allenj12 | toxmeister: seems like they just updated cljs |
| 18:52 | toxmeister | that warning has been there for me ever since i switched my projects to clj 1.6 and there was talk about this issue on the ML a few months back |
| 18:53 | toxmeister | now that CLJ has that fn already, it can be removed from CLJS |
| 18:55 | toxmeister | allenj12: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-514 |
| 18:55 | allenj12 | toxmeister: i updated cljs and dont get that error anymore.. it seems to have been changend in the last few days |
| 18:57 | toxmeister | allenj12: which cljs rev are you on? must be on the 1.6 branch too then… |
| 18:57 | allenj12 | "0.0-2234" |
| 18:59 | toxmeister | allenj12: am using self built 2246 - the official ticket for this is still open though (http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-769) |
| 18:59 | allenj12 | toxmeister: i wonder why my problem went away then |
| 19:02 | toxmeister | allenj12: because of this maybe? https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/commit/f3e571136d741eb22d0df31f212beb036cae78b7#diff-b64165608bed8fb21a132890b4e2fca2R30 |
| 19:03 | devn | _ato: technomancy: xeqi: new clojars logo! https://github.com/devn/clojars-web/commit/aced5706430bd54fcdb2ee97fdb48e2450e731b5 |
| 19:03 | allenj12 | devn: i like it |
| 19:03 | allenj12 | toxmeister: hmmm |
| 19:04 | TEttinger | ha! that's clever, devn |
| 19:04 | arrdem | devn: cheeeeese |
| 19:04 | TEttinger | (inc devn) |
| 19:04 | TEttinger | lazybot died |
| 19:04 | devn | it looks better on the purple background |
| 19:04 | technomancy | devn: science! |
| 19:04 | devn | huzzah! |
| 19:05 | technomancy | <3 |
| 19:06 | arrdem | so. much. purple! |
| 19:06 | allenj12 | (inc devn) |
| 19:06 | devn | technomancy: the guy who did the original comps is out. our illustrator/art/icon person (Kelly Rauerdink) did this. I suspect when Mic gets back from vacation he'll have some tweaks to the logo placement on the homepage and stuff, but for now this looks decent |
| 19:06 | technomancy | indeed |
| 19:07 | devn | gotta run. cheers! |
| 19:09 | mi6x3m | is it possible reify doesn't see the methods of an inner interface? |
| 19:09 | mi6x3m | for this interface http://djproject.sourceforge.net/ns/documentation/javadoc/index.html I get "Can't define method not in interfaces: createWebBrowserDecorator |
| 19:09 | mi6x3m | the interface is JWebBrowser.WebBrowserDecoratorFactory, sorry |
| 19:10 | technomancy | TimMc: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/commit/12ec7b92002995b92f3f02c0317728d9c34c3c09 |
| 19:10 | technomancy | thoughts? |
| 19:12 | hiredman | mi6x3m: there is no such thing as an inner interface |
| 19:12 | mi6x3m | yeah, I used a false term, but it's not a solution to the problem I guess |
| 19:12 | mi6x3m | somehow the method isn't visible |
| 19:13 | mi6x3m | works if I use proxy |
| 19:14 | toxmeister | mi6x3m: how are you referring to this interface? Inner classes need to use `$` instead of `.` as separator |
| 19:15 | mi6x3m | toxmeister: (reify JWebBrowser$WebBrowserDecoratorFactory [] |
| 19:15 | mi6x3m | (createWebBrowserDecorator [target component] (f target component))) |
| 19:15 | mi6x3m | without the [] after Factory, this is from the proxy test |
| 19:16 | toxmeister | mi6x3m: hmmm… dunno then... |
| 19:17 | allenj12 | toxmeister: o wow i just got that warning again randomly, o well. |
| 19:18 | toxmeister | allenj12: probably didn't use lein cljsbuild clean before then... |
| 19:20 | amalloy | (inc devn) |
| 19:20 | lazybot | ⇒ 20 |
| 19:20 | amalloy | (inc devn) |
| 19:20 | lazybot | ⇒ 21 |
| 19:20 | amalloy | i understand lazybot dropped these |
| 19:24 | arrdem | (inc devn) |
| 19:24 | lazybot | ⇒ 22 |
| 19:29 | xeqi | is there a function that will return all possible interleavings of a list of lists? |
| 19:31 | xeqi | ie: [[1 2] [3 4]] -> [[1 2 3 4] [1 3 2 4] [1 3 4 2] [3 1 2 4] [3 1 4 2] [3 4 1 2]] |
| 19:32 | amalloy | certainly there's nothing built in, but i don't think it's too difficult to write |
| 19:34 | amalloy | xeqi: in fact, i think it's just all permutations of (apply concat lists), right? so you can just grab permutations from contrib.combinatorics |
| 19:34 | justin_smith | xeqi: maybe with clojure.math.combinatorics/combinations ? https://github.com/clojure/math.combinatorics/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/math/combinatorics.clj#L88 |
| 19:34 | amalloy | nah, has to be permutations, not combinations. but that's on the right track |
| 19:36 | justin_smith | xeqi: is there some pattern bhind the fact that orders starting from 2 or 4 are missing in your example? |
| 19:36 | amalloy | oh, right. yeah, i'm so wrong. permutations is no good |
| 19:37 | xeqi | justin_smith: ah, meant the final lists kept ordering from the originals |
| 19:37 | TimMc | technomancy: Does that mean I could load the resource "pom.properties" either from lein repl in the project or from a jar URL resource loader in a library? |
| 19:38 | xeqi | so in that example, 1 must occur before 2, 3 before 4 |
| 19:38 | allenj12 | so i tried :optimizations :advanced and now it says goog is not defined and i cant go back lol |
| 19:38 | technomancy | TimMc: correcto |
| 19:39 | technomancy | lein run, lein repl, lein swankety, whatever |
| 19:39 | TimMc | Then awesome. |
| 19:39 | TimMc | I'll see if I can test this out tonight. |
| 19:39 | technomancy | it's implemented as a :prep-task, similar to how javac and compile run before any in-project code |
| 19:39 | technomancy | that would be great |
| 19:39 | xeqi | justin_smith: so combinations might work, thanks |
| 19:39 | technomancy | would like to cut a release over the weekend |
| 19:40 | technomancy | bit later than I told gfredericks but hopefully not too bad |
| 19:40 | xeqi | ah, not quite |
| 19:40 | TimMc | Is that on master? |
| 19:40 | justin_smith | at the very least the tactics used in c.m.c should be applicable |
| 19:40 | technomancy | TimMc: yeah |
| 19:40 | justin_smith | even if none of those functions do it quite right |
| 19:40 | xeqi | yep, thanks for the pointer |
| 19:40 | TimMc | Cool, I'll see if I can test it on the train home, then. |
| 19:41 | amalloy | xeqi: https://www.refheap.com/09e3d1c185f2ea905b814531d |
| 19:42 | amalloy | easier to do by hand than with combinations, i think |
| 19:42 | amalloy | i even happen to produce answers in the same order as you did |
| 19:50 | amalloy | out of curiosity, xeqi, what do you need to know possible interleavings for? |
| 19:53 | sritchie | seancorfield: saw that you discovered the maybe monad earlier :) |
| 19:56 | zimri-lim | re: Ring, what is a 'legacy servlet container'. Is this assuming all Java servelets are legacy, or are there non-legacy servlet containers? |
| 20:03 | Jaood | zimri-lim: I guess there are legancy and non-legacy servlet containers, the most popular servelet cointaner in the clojure world is jetty |
| 20:03 | amalloy | although i'm pretty sure embedding jetty is more popular still, for clojure at least |
| 20:03 | Jaood | zimri-lim: and there's http-kit which is a http server desgined for clojure (ring) applications |
| 20:04 | Jaood | zimri-lim: which has nothing to do with servlets |
| 20:06 | Jaood | amalloy: I guess is more popular because it predates http-kit and is more convenient for java legacy apps |
| 20:06 | xeqi | amalloy: I'm playing around with parallel properties, so I'm seeing if I can do the interleaving comparison from Hughes' c/w talk |
| 20:06 | seancorfield | sritchie: I wouldn't say "discovered", just that I was resisting using the monads library in the hope of a solution in core that was sufficiently elegant :) |
| 20:08 | seancorfield | sritchie: But I still agree with Evan's position on how to present Elm - without mentioning the M-word (and without a lot of the type theory that is behind the implementation of Elm) |
| 20:09 | seancorfield | sritchie: The Haskellers on the Elm mailing list can be very resistant to Evan's position at times :) |
| 20:09 | sritchie | seancorfield: the monad thing is compelling because the same pattern that everyone’s familiar with with lists... |
| 20:09 | sritchie | works for maybe, and for reactive stuff, and for futures, |
| 20:09 | sritchie | so, boom, you already know how to code those things |
| 20:11 | sritchie | seancorfield: but yeah, that whole group is really amazing with how hardheaded they are |
| 20:11 | sritchie | how completely arrogant, rather |
| 20:12 | seancorfield | yeah, it's almost like they are willfully trying to exclude new programmers by insisting on using "computer science terms" instead of day-to-day language |
| 20:12 | arrdem | yeah that's the one thing that keeps turning me off about learning haskell.. I really enjoy the shall we say quiet craftsmanship? here, and that's one thing totally lacking in the other camp. |
| 20:12 | seancorfield | explaining how the maybe monad works doesn't require using the M-word and pouring the "monad laws" and all the other stuff on newbies |
| 20:13 | seancorfield | I've always liked Haskell - I was very excited when it first appeared and I really believed it could bring FP to the mainstream (foolish me!). |
| 20:13 | Jaood | are there any Haskell monads tutorials? |
| 20:14 | seancorfield | Hundreds! |
| 20:14 | Jaood | I kid I kid |
| 20:14 | seancorfield | :) |
| 20:14 | Jaood | ;) |
| 20:15 | seancorfield | But you just can't get very far discussing problems with Haskell programmers without being bombarded with applicatives, functors, monoids and sorts of other stuff that - in my opinion - completely distracts from the actual patterns in play. |
| 20:16 | arrdem | amalloy: useful material maybe, just made my toolkit. https://www.refheap.com/86575 |
| 20:16 | seancorfield | I'm not denying the usefulness of common terminology - but that stuff is only "common" in a relatively small community, compared to the programming world at large. |
| 20:16 | scriptor | this is a common issue in mathematics |
| 20:16 | seancorfield | And there's a level of genericity there that is also a distraction. Yes scriptor I agree - and I _am_ a mathematician :) |
| 20:16 | scriptor | I've seen articles before pointing out how specialists in one field can't just easily pick up a paper from another subfield and understand it |
| 20:17 | scriptor | ah |
| 20:17 | scriptor | erm |
| 20:17 | arrdem | seancorfield: I think their stance and I would tend to agree with them, is that the "common patterns" are really special cases of the more general patterns they are describing. Teaching programming in those terms is really the only fix, and I agree it's a difficult one. |
| 20:17 | scriptor | I was all of one class short of a math minor, so hah! |
| 20:17 | zimri-lim | Jaood: ok. so there's no reason not to use the "lein ring war" command, even though the doc mentions that it's used for legacy web services? |
| 20:17 | seancorfield | My BSc is Math w/Comp Sci and then I did a PhD in FP language design and implementation - so SASL, Miranda, ML etc were all bread and butter for me back in the early-to-mid-80's... |
| 20:19 | seancorfield | arrdem: yeah, I think the fact that we have so many "monad tutorials" speaks to a fundamental problem in trying to teach them in that way / context - and something else is needed |
| 20:20 | seancorfield | lots of programmers are perfectly happy learning about for-comprehensions without knowing anything about monads etc |
| 20:22 | arrdem | seancorfield: I think the reality of the thing is that we've been teaching computer science in the context of building explicit control flow in imperative languages for decades now and despite being a hold over from the days when men were men and wrangled raw untyped pointers in raw PDP-8 assembly or whatever it continues to influence how everyone learns programming. |
| 20:23 | justin_smith | arrdem: even as the underlying hardware stops being strictly sequential |
| 20:23 | amalloy | incidentally, arrdem, it seems like (-> foo (->assert even?) (inc)) is just (-> foo (doto (-> (even?) (assert))) (inc)) |
| 20:23 | seancorfield | but you can teach programming without jargon - and outside of hardcore comp sci that's exactly what is done... but FP has stayed primarily academic until fairly recently and it's had a long time to cement its jargon :) |
| 20:23 | arrdem | amalloy: sure, I just think that the ->(>)?assert is nicer. |
| 20:24 | arrdem | seancorfield: I mean we seem to have no problem teaching math and physics jargon, so I think that's a fallacious argument. |
| 20:24 | arrdem | seancorfield: just because we have "jargon" doesn't mean it's the right jargon |
| 20:25 | arrdem | s/the right/good/g |
| 20:25 | seancorfield | It's a different audience. There are millions of programmers (in terms of jobs) but relatively few mathematicians and physicists |
| 20:25 | stephenjudkins | seancorfield: "jargon" is subjective and relative |
| 20:25 | stephenjudkins | i think it's perfectly fine to tell people they should know what a monad is, it's been really useful to me, and not that complicated |
| 20:25 | akhudek | does anyone know if you can validate data you pass into a function defined with prismatic’s defnk? Supposedly defnk now supports schemas, though it’s not clear what you can do with them. |
| 20:26 | seancorfield | If programming was a career of the same scale as physicists, then having jargon as a barrier to entry is fine - but it is an obstacle to scaling the education process needed for millions of programmers |
| 20:26 | seancorfield | stephenjudkins: and to be honest, if knowing what a monad is was indeed the barrier to entry for programming, i'd be perfectly happy - but that's just not the case |
| 20:27 | stephenjudkins | i think the "you just hate knowledge/learning things" reflexive response to people's criticism of FP is stupid, though |
| 20:27 | seancorfield | agreed |
| 20:27 | arrdem | seancorfield: but only because we've been teaching this sequential model of machine execution as "programming", a model which the hardware, software and network guys are now trying desperately to escape. |
| 20:28 | stephenjudkins | like, i am pretty thoroughly aware of how monad transformers work, i just think they are a horrible painful nasty abstraction for day-to-day programming |
| 20:29 | stephenjudkins | and that they're the best/only way might suggest that (gasp!) current FP languages have some big problems and may not be sufficient to take over the world |
| 20:29 | arrdem | HERETIC |
| 20:29 | amalloy | ~guards |
| 20:29 | clojurebot | SEIZE HIM! |
| 20:29 | seancorfield | LOL |
| 20:30 | seancorfield | but that is indeed the quagmire of argument you get into as soon as you push back on this stuff ("jargon") |
| 20:30 | arrdem | (inc amalloy) |
| 20:30 | lazybot | ⇒ 128 |
| 20:30 | arrdem | seancorfield: have you read EWD's letter to the UT Board about the CS curriculum here? |
| 20:30 | seancorfield | and it's certainly possible to teach FP to complete beginners without any of that stuff |
| 20:31 | amalloy | unfortunately the heretic is cloaked in the Maybe monad. the guards were going to Just sieze him, but he got away and there's Nothing left |
| 20:31 | arrdem | amalloy: I'm quoting you on that... |
| 20:31 | TimMc | :-D |
| 20:32 | sritchie | seancorfield: oh man, just jumped back in |
| 20:32 | amalloy | good luck finding a suitable context |
| 20:32 | sritchie | I had asked on IRC - |
| 20:32 | scriptor | heh, guards |
| 20:32 | sritchie | seancorfield: but, here’s the thing |
| 20:32 | sritchie | the monad is obviously a pattern |
| 20:32 | sritchie | you just wanted it for maybe |
| 20:32 | sritchie | so what’s the “everyday language” suitable to introduce that pattern? |
| 20:32 | sritchie | given that elm chose the pattern, I guess |
| 20:33 | sritchie | scala just calls it “for syntax”, I guess |
| 20:33 | clojurebot | Titim gan éirí ort. |
| 20:33 | seancorfield | right, and there's no mention of the M-word here http://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/util/Optional.html |
| 20:34 | sritchie | sure, but it’s also not sharing an interface with java’s lists |
| 20:34 | sritchie | which you could argue that it should, now that they have map, filter, etc |
| 20:34 | seancorfield | Optional has map, flatMap, filter |
| 20:34 | sritchie | yeah, this implements filter, |
| 20:34 | sritchie | and so does a list, now… |
| 20:34 | seancorfield | well, streams do :) |
| 20:34 | sritchie | but they share no interface |
| 20:34 | sritchie | so I can’t write code that will work on both |
| 20:35 | sritchie | like, “lift” is really useful |
| 20:35 | sritchie | take a function, and make it work on some monad |
| 20:35 | sritchie | and you can’t write that without the common interface... |
| 20:35 | sritchie | but you have to name the interface |
| 20:36 | sritchie | take A -> B and make Option[A] -> Option[B], etc |
| 20:37 | seancorfield | I'd have to see how far you could push Java's generics for that... |
| 20:38 | amalloy | seancorfield: no further than the java 8 stuff already did |
| 20:38 | seancorfield | amalloy: and they added a whole bunch of new type inference to make that work in Java 8 |
| 20:38 | amalloy | you just need a common superinterface FlatMappable (ie, Monad), instead of 8 different interfaces that all contain flatMap |
| 20:41 | amalloy | and then you can write something like: public <A,B,M extends FlatMappable> Function<M<A>,M<B>> lift(Function<A, B>); |
| 20:44 | stephenjudkins | what word makes clojurebot swear in irish? |
| 20:44 | amalloy | ~swear in irish |
| 20:44 | clojurebot | excusez-moi |
| 20:45 | stephenjudkins | syntax |
| 20:45 | arrdem | clojurebot never swears in irish, he will occasionally apologize in welsh |
| 20:45 | amalloy | ~swear in irish please? |
| 20:45 | clojurebot | Gabh mo leithscéal? |
| 20:45 | stephenjudkins | i'm so confused |
| 20:45 | amalloy | close enough. have a cookie |
| 20:52 | seancorfield | amalloy: looks like they only partially implemented generalized target-type inference in Java 8 ... so there's still a bunch of stuff it can't figure out :( |
| 20:52 | seancorfield | and I'm more familiar with the behavior of C++ templates (which really weren't based on types) |
| 20:58 | seancorfield | but, yeah, there are definitely some oddities in the new Java 8 stuff... since Optional is a final class, its flatMap type signature doesn't match the flatMap on Stream (even if they had a common interface to implement) |
| 20:59 | hiredman | and now java is stuck with it for 10 years |
| 21:10 | devn | technomancy: xeqi: I have a surprise for you: https://github.com/devn/clojars-web/tree/devn-404 -- check that out and go to the 404 page |
| 21:13 | devn | ill give you a hint: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0wfnlwsg1p1qbj8/xeyes404.png |
| 21:13 | devn | :D |
| 21:13 | TEttinger | I gotta say, devn, https://github.com/devn/clojars-web/blob/d99aeeefc74938087c821bbda655ca713bc651e8/resources/public/images/rich-portrait-frame.png is pretty creepy |
| 21:13 | arrdem | (inc devn) |
| 21:13 | lazybot | ⇒ 23 |
| 21:14 | arrdem | devn: dude. that's hillarious |
| 21:14 | devn | im not sure im going to use that image yet. it's a funny picture of him. i've been toying with the idea of making it look less like vector art and more like a painting |
| 21:15 | devn | serious business |
| 21:15 | devn | lol |
| 21:15 | devn | and just in case you're looking at just the screenshot, yes, the cursor follows your mouse |
| 21:16 | devn | err the eyes follow your cursor |
| 21:34 | allenj12 | in quil if im using :fullscreen is there a way to get the screen height or width? |
| 21:35 | allenj12 | o nvm, there is a funtion called that, i just did something wrong |
| 22:38 | umpa | ,(println "hello!") |
| 22:38 | clojurebot | hello!\n |
| 22:41 | umpa | How do I loop recure with multiple conditions ? https://www.refheap.com/86579 |
| 22:43 | muhuk | umpa: what's the error message you're getting? |
| 22:44 | muhuk | umpa: https://www.refheap.com/86580 |
| 22:45 | muhuk | umpa: eh, no. |
| 22:45 | umpa | https://www.refheap.com/86579 |
| 22:48 | muhuk | umpa: see the fork I've pasted |
| 22:48 | umpa | mhuk: nice |
| 22:49 | muhuk | umpa: one thing: I wouldn't overwrite x and y within the loop, makes it harder to read the code. |
| 22:51 | umpa | mhuk: true |
| 22:51 | allenj12 | ,(.-value 3) |
| 22:51 | clojurebot | #<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: value for class java.lang.Long> |
| 22:53 | allenj12 | ,(.-value "hello") |
| 22:53 | clojurebot | #<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: value for class java.lang.String> |
| 23:39 | akhudek | oh wow, including docx4j 3.1.0 in lein caues a stackoverflow in lein deps :tree |
| 23:41 | akhudek | ah whew |
| 23:41 | akhudek | upgrading lein fixed it |
