#clojure – 2014-06-12

2014-06-12

00:02	umpa	Any way to keep score with immutable seqs ?
00:05	jonasen	umpa: not sure what you mean
00:07	umpa	jonasen: now I manually mutate (atom ()). Maybe there is a better way to keep score for a two player game ?
00:09	jonasen	umpa: An atom is probably the way to go
00:11	umpa	,(doc partial)
00:11	clojurebot	"([f] [f arg1] [f arg1 arg2] [f arg1 arg2 arg3] [f arg1 arg2 arg3 & ...]); Takes a function f and fewer than the normal arguments to f, and returns a fn that takes a variable number of additional args. When called, the returned function calls f with args + additional args."
00:11	amalloy	jonasen: i think it's too early to conclude that. it could easily be a lazy seq of scores or game states, or a state variable that you reduce or loop over
00:12	jonasen	amalloy: thats true
00:13	umpa	,(doc lazy-seq)
00:13	clojurebot	"([& body]); Takes a body of expressions that returns an ISeq or nil, and yields a Seqable object that will invoke the body only the first time seq is called, and will cache the result and return it on all subsequent seq calls. See also - realized?"
00:14	umpa	that (doc lazy-seq) is kind of lazy
01:09	umpa	what if the state depends on the score ?
01:12	dbasch	umpa: the score is part of the state, isn’t it? you’re asking what if the state depends on the state, which is a tautology
01:14	umpa	dbasch: score is the only state ?
01:14	dbasch	how should I know?
01:15	umpa	it just sounds like one big recur loop
01:15	dbasch	umpa: is your game single-threaded?
01:17	umpa	i don't make use of threads no
01:17	dbasch	umpa: in that case you can keep your score in an immutable structure
01:18	dbasch	you can recur with the new score at the end of each “round”
01:18	umpa	this might be a good opportunity to learn about states
01:19	dbasch	imagine a jeopardy game for example, where for each round the three contestants are given the chance to guess in order
01:19	dbasch	there’s no concurrency, and at the end of the round you have the updated scores of the three players
01:23	umpa	ok, in my case the 2nd round would take each player's scores and create a new state according to the score of each player
01:24	dbasch	umpa: yes, that sounds like a regular recur based on the computation that happened during the sequential evaluation of the loop
01:26	umpa	is that optimal in clojure ? clojure.org/state talks about alter, commute and send
01:28	dbasch	umpa: optimal for what? if you have no concurrency, you don’t need to worry about that
01:29	umpa	dbasch: i'm yet to see an example of concurrency, but at this point just figuring best practices
01:30	dbasch	umpa: you usually know when you need concurrency
01:31	dbasch	umpa: if you can model your game without concurrency and it performs well, you don’t need concurrency
01:32	dbasch	umpa: a typical example of concurrency is when you want to provide a service to different people and you don’t want to keep them waiting
01:33	dbasch	although that’s typically done with a parallel implementation, which is more than just concurrency
01:33	umpa	dbasch: would running two recur loops at the same time be an example of concurrency
01:33	dbasch	umpa: it would be concurrent if you cannot predict the order in which operations take place
01:34	dbasch	you mean running two loops at the same time in two different threads?
01:34	dbasch	that would be parallelism, but if they don’t interact with each other they are not necessarily concurrent
01:35	umpa	hmm
01:35	dbasch	an example of concurrency could be a busy intersection, where at each “turn” an indeterminate number of cars can go through
01:36	Jaood	clojure is dead: http://uautoinsurance.com/b/yclanguages-cm465/
01:36	dbasch	and if you could turn back time and restart the flow of traffic, it might happen differently every time
01:37	dbasch	e.g. you have cars 1, 2 and 3 trying to cross north-south, and cars 4 5 6 east-west
01:37	dbasch	one possibility would be 1 4 2 5 3 6
01:37	dbasch	another one would be 1 2 3 4 5 6
01:38	dbasch	cars 1 and 4 are concurrently trying to access the intersection at the beginning
01:38	dbasch	if you have a loop that takes one car from each direction and makes it go through, you have no concurrency issues
01:39	dbasch	if on the other hand you just put the cars in there and something makes them go through for you in a way that you cannot predict the order, that’s concurrency outside of your control
01:42	umpa	so its not ([1 4][2 5][3 6]), that would be parallelism ?
01:48	dbasch	umpa: in this case there probably wouldn’t be parallelism, because we can assume that only one car moves at a time
01:48	dbasch	two cars cannot move at the same time
01:48	umpa	Jaood: Wit.AI is actually the only one I would be interested in working for from that list
01:48	Jaood	umpa: parallelism is just a technicque to perform an operation more faster
01:49	dbasch	umpa: the point is that parallelism and concurrency are different things, often combined
01:50	dbasch	when programming nondeterministic access to resources, you usually care about concurrency
01:51	dbasch	for example, let’s suppose your cars decide to cross in whichever order they negotiate on their own, because they are autonomous
01:51	umpa	ok
01:51	dbasch	if you want [1 2 3] to always be together, you could impose a condition that they move “atomically"
01:51	dbasch	e.g. 1 4 5 6 2 3 would not be a possible order for crossing the intersection
01:52	dbasch	you could have 1 2 3 4 5 6 or 4 5 6 1 2 3
01:52	dbasch	(if [4 5 6] are also atomic)
01:52	dbasch	or 4 1 2 3 5 6 might be allowed if you care about the atomicity of 1 2 3 and not the others
01:53	dbasch	that’s when you start using synchronization with things like atoms
01:54	dbasch	the important question is whether someone could observe your system during the transition and find it in an inconsistent state, or not
01:54	dbasch	if there are no observers but you, it’s a moot question
01:55	johnwalker	oh hi dbasch
01:55	dbasch	hi johnwalker
01:55	johnwalker	small world
01:55	umpa	nice dbasch
01:56	dbasch	the world of clojure is still pretty small :)
02:01	umpa	dbasch: now the terms futures, promises, delays, atoms, refs make more sense
02:01	dbasch	cool
02:17	IbrahimA	somewhat abstract question, hope it's appropriate: i notice umpa mentioned wit.ai, and that article mentions that they think perhaps they can iterate faster on machine learning algorithms with clojure?
02:17	IbrahimA	as a first year graduate student working on machine learning and starting to dabble in clojure for fun, i can't see how/why clojure would be particularly better for machine learning than something more numerically oriented like matlab or python?
02:18	IbrahimA	but im certainly curious if anyone is doing that kind of thing
02:18	IbrahimA	i've done some scheme before and i always recall people saying lisps were good for AI, but i never really saw why they said that
02:19	IbrahimA	there's certainly some elegance to sexps which makes them nice languages to work with, especially if you use emacs, but i dont see how that relates to AI
02:20	dbasch	IbrahimA: I personally don’t think that any language is better than any other for AI, what matters most are whatever libraries people have written
02:20	IbrahimA	right
02:20	IbrahimA	i agree completely, with the minor point that some languages have better syntax for eg. linear algebra
02:21	IbrahimA	but python doesn't, and yet there's plenty of numerical stuff for it
02:21	dbasch	IbrahimA: python is useful because of SciPy
02:21	IbrahimA	righto
02:21	IbrahimA	i just want to understand where the "lisp is good for AI" meme comes from
02:21	dbasch	honestly I don’t know
02:21	IbrahimA	is it more of a correlation vs causation thing, maybe just happens that early ai pioneers liked lisp?
02:22	dbasch	IbrahimA: yeah, at the time you didn’t have many good choices
02:22	IbrahimA	that sounds like the case from this SO post: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/130475/why-is-lisp-used-for-ai
02:22	umpa	or perl, lisp lost popularity when AI proved to be not very promising
02:23	umpa	back in 70s
02:23	dbasch	IbrahimA: have you checked out incanter?
02:23	IbrahimA	i barely know clojure at this point
02:23	IbrahimA	err
02:23	johnwalker	is there a way to make the charts in incanter look nice?
02:23	IbrahimA	i mean, i've barely started learning
02:24	IbrahimA	and honestly, if i were to switch away from matlab it'd probably be to python/numpy
02:24	dbasch	johnwalker: the charts in the incanter examples look nice enough to me, at least better than what I can do with R
02:24	IbrahimA	clojure im learning completely for fun
02:25	johnwalker	they're ok, but for example
02:25	johnwalker	http://data-sorcery.org/2010/04/04/new-chart-theme/
02:25	dbasch	IbrahimA: I know a company that was doing statistical software in clojure and switched to python because incanter wasn’t there yet for their particular needs
02:25	IbrahimA	yeah, the python numpy/scipy/pandas ecosystem is pretty strong
02:25	dbasch	johnwalker: I like those charts
02:25	johnwalker	if you look at the sin wave's they're all janky looking, and i didn't see a way to control the legend
02:26	IbrahimA	i mean, really i prefer ruby as a language over python, but i dont think sciruby is anywhere close to replacing scipy
02:26	IbrahimA	i hope i dont start a language flame war :P
02:26	IbrahimA	forget i said anything
02:26	dbasch	IbrahimA: don’t worry about it. Who can argue about personal preferences.
02:26	johnwalker	there isn't really a flamewar threat
02:27	IbrahimA	i've managed to derail #emacs with random topics like that, though i think #emacs exists to be derailed
02:27	dbasch	there’s a pretty big intersection of domains for which using python, clojure or ruby is a matter of preference
02:27	IbrahimA	mhm
02:28	IbrahimA	thankfully in these days of modern hardware we don't have to care as much about performance 90% of the time :D
02:29	umpa	you do if its a mobile device
02:31	dbasch	IbrahimA: the main reason I like clojure is repl-driven development on the jvm
02:31	IbrahimA	yea
02:32	dbasch	johnwalker: yes, that sine chart doesn’t look particularly pretty
02:32	umpa	optimized recursion is nice as well
02:49	hellofunk	anyone know why simply restarting a REPL would cause this exception to go away: FileNotFoundException: Could not locate compojure__init.class or compojure.clj on classpath
03:06	ddellaco_	hellofunk: could just be weirdness with dependencies getting loaded...I've seen that happen. namespace state can get messed up in the repl, unfortunately.
03:09	hellofunk	ddellaco_ ok seems like a rather basic and fundamental aspect to how clojure works, i would expect that to be more stable
03:14	hellofunk	ddellacosta when using Om is it better to use directly DOM stuff like #js {:onClick ... or to use goog closure's event listening abstractions?
03:15	ddellacosta	hellofunk: regarding namespaces in repl, I recommend reading this article for a bit better context: http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/2013/06/04/clojure-workflow-reloaded
03:16	ddellacosta	hellofunk: re: Om, I've found it's a lot better to lean on React's events as much as possible.
03:17	ddellacosta	hellofunk: depends on what you're doing--in some cases you have to do some event handling outside of the React lifecycle. But generally, if you can use the React event handlers, components logic will be a lot cleaner.
03:17	ddellacosta	*component logic
03:18	hellofunk	ddellacosta thanks. i see in om tuts that basic js/document getElementById is used for things like om/root rather than a goog closure abstraction as well.
03:20	ddellacosta	hellofunk: as far as actually getting stuff from the DOM, I tend to use a library that makes that easy on top of Om--if I had my choice I'd use Dommy (https://github.com/Prismatic/dommy), but we use Domina in the app I work on at work day-to-day. David Nolen falls back on the default built-in DOM stuff a lot, but I suspect that has more to do with not wanted to bring in other dependencies than anything (although he d
03:20	ddellacosta	oes use Google Closure stuff in his tutorials/example code too when it's appropriate, since it is "built-in").
03:21	ddellacosta	hellofunk: however, if you find yourself doing a ton of DOM stuff outside of React, I would suggest you ask yourself if you aren't doing something that would be easier by working within the React lifecycle and managing your data vs. fiddling with the DOM.
03:21	ddellacosta	hellofunk: ...that's based on my experience up until now. YMMV.
03:23	hellofunk	ddellacosta thanks, i guess there is always a non-react part that must load the html element that om has control over, but i guess relying on built-in DOM for that is excusable
03:24	ddellacosta	hellofunk: ah, yeah, the very initial load to hand something off to root requires that. But if that's all you're doing of course it doesn't make sense to add another DOM lib dependency to your app.
03:58	hellofunk	ddellacosta Dommy and Domina would be similar tools to Goog Closure for accessing DOM outside React, then right?
04:00	ddellacosta	hellofunk: yeah, they are both just DOM manipulation libs. Dommy has some templating and AJAX stuff as well I believe. Google Closure is quite a bit more full-featured however, and includes an extensive set of UI widgets as well as mamy other utilities.
04:00	ddellacosta	hellofunk: self-promotion but this is a pretty good survey of the DOM libs out there: http://davedellacosta.com/cljs-dom-survey
04:01	hellofunk	ddellacosta oh cool, i'll read that
04:13	ddellacosta	hellofunk: oh sorry, I was wrong, Dommy doesn't have any AJAX stuff--I was thinking of event handling, rather.
06:34	clgv	afair in primatic/plumbing the result of lazy-compile can be treated as usual clojure map. but I only get nil values when applying `select-keys` on it
06:43	clgv	well, unrelated error. the map behavior is fine
07:18	sveri	Hi, I am wondering if its possible to run clojure tests (testing java code) as part of a junit test suite? Has anyone experience with this?
07:20	andyf	Bronsa: ping
07:20	Bronsa	andyf: hi
07:21	andyf	Saw your comment. I can do a quick test on this, but the reason I changed mapv to loop is that I had this idea that with mapv, the ns value would get 'captured' once at closure creation time, and not update during each call to that closure.
07:21	andyf	Testing out that guess now
07:22	engblom	If I need to change the nth value in a list, is there a ready function for that?
07:22	Bronsa	andyf: that's not the case, mapv is eager
07:22	andyf	Yeah, I wasn't worried about lazy/eagerness of mapv.
07:23	andyf	But does (fn ...) capture values of free vars, or only references to them?
07:23	andyf	scratch the "only"
07:24	agarman	engblom: update-in
07:24	agarman	,(update-in [1 [2 [3]]] [1 1] inc)
07:24	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
07:24	agarman	,(update-in [1 2 3] [2] inc)
07:24	Bronsa	andyf: (fn [] ns) resolves ns at call time
07:24	clojurebot	[1 2 4]
07:25	Bronsa	andyf: you'd need something like (let [ns ns] (fn [] ns)) to capture it at compilation time
07:25	andyf	ok, makes sense. Switching the code back to more like it was and testing
07:25	Bronsa	cool, thanks a lot
07:27	andyf	Should the recursive call to analyze+eval for statements-expr also have last arg of opts?
07:27	andyf	it wasn't there before.
07:27	Bronsa	yeah I saw that, good catch
07:27	Bronsa	should definitely be there
07:27	andyf	ok
07:37	andyf	patch attached
07:38	Bronsa	thanks
07:56	engblom	Today I wrote this function: https://www.refheap.com/86508 . How would you indent this function? Is there anything made in a stupid way that could be done better?
08:04	andyf	engblom: I did not notice anything being done in a stupid way, but didn't check extremely carefully. Here is another way to structure it using ->> https://www.refheap.com/86510
08:05	engblom	andyf: Thanks!
08:08	andyf	I haven't tested, but isn't (update-in (vec heaps) [index] (fn [n] new-heap)) equivalent to (assoc (vec heaps) index new-heap) ?
08:14	engblom	andyf: Thanks, that made it a bit shorter!
08:14	engblom	The function looks like this now: https://www.refheap.com/86511
08:14	engblom	I corrected one bug I had.
08:17	andyf	engblom: Instead of flattening out all structure, and then putting it back in with partition, I think you could do something like (apply concat) instead of flatten (partition 3)
08:21	engblom	andyf: Before flattening and partitioning it back, it is looking like this '(([0 2 1] [1 2 1] [2 2 1]) ([3 1 1] [3 0 1]) ([3 2 0]))
08:21	engblom	It is a list of lists of vectors
08:23	engblom	,(apply concat '(([0 2 1] [1 2 1] [2 2 1]) ([3 1 1] [3 0 1]) ([3 2 0])))
08:23	clojurebot	([0 2 1] [1 2 1] [2 2 1] [3 1 1] [3 0 1] ...)
08:23	engblom	It is not becoming what I want the end-result to be.
08:23	andyf	You mean you prefer that the result is a list of lists, rather than a list of vectors?
08:23	engblom	End-result should be like this: ((0 2 1) (1 2 1) (2 2 1) (3 0 1) (3 1 1) (3 2 0))
08:24	engblom	Yes
08:25	andyf	Out of curiosity, why?
08:25	engblom	Because my other functions already operate over lists, so it is easier to convert this one list of lists, rather than rewrite the other.
08:27	andyf	ok, no problem. Note that many (not all) Clojure functions can work on vectors and lists equivalently, treating them as sequences.
08:28	engblom	Actually, it would not be that difficult for the other ones, now when I look at it.
08:40	andyf	Bronsa: taj/analyze+eval should return :raw-forms just like taj/analyze does, yes? I'm not getting it, but I may be messing something up.
08:40	Bronsa	andyf: only in the nodes where the form gets macroexpanded, yes
08:41	Bronsa	andyf: do you have a test case where you're not getting it?
08:41	andyf	trying to reproduce with original libs
08:43	engblom	andyf: Now the function is looking like this: https://www.refheap.com/86512 . I made the suggested change to use vectors instead.
08:44	andyf	Try (-> '(comment 1 2 3) taj/analyze :raw-forms) and then again with taj/analyze+eval
08:45	Bronsa	andyf: arg I'm an idiot
08:46	Bronsa	forgot to commit that line
08:47	Bronsa	andyf: https://github.com/clojure/tools.analyzer.jvm/commit/95d45bc808f1aa299f1f6345e5ac5031a351d147
08:48	andyf	engblom: I can't speak for everyone, but it is easier for me to follow now.
08:49	Glenjamin	i think you could use mapv instead of map-indexed and assoc
08:49	Glenjamin	is heaps a vector of ints?
08:51	justin_smith	quoting the maintainer of cider.el: "the final nrepl.el release is about an year old and I doubt many people are still using it"
08:51	justin_smith	if only he knew how many of us are still using slime
08:52	engblom	Glenjamin: Yes, it is!
08:52	andyf	Bronsa: grazie
08:52	Bronsa	andyf: grazie a te! :)
08:53	andyf	My Italian is limited to about 20 words, but that plus 1 year of Latin 30 years ago makes me guess "thanks to you"
08:53	Bronsa	correct
08:53	engblom	Glenjamin: I can find any information about mapv: http://clojuredocs.org/search?x=0&y=0&q=mapv&lib=clojure_core
08:53	Glenjamin	,(doc mapv)
08:53	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f c1 c2] [f c1 c2 c3] [f c1 c2 c3 & ...]); Returns a vector consisting of the result of applying f to the set of first items of each coll, followed by applying f to the set of second items in each coll, until any one of the colls is exhausted. Any remaining items in other colls are ignored. Function f should accept number-of-colls arguments."
08:54	Bronsa	andyf: fun fact: I can't help but read Italian phrases in a really weird accent in my head when I know the persons that's writing them is not a native speaker
08:55	Glenjamin	for some reason i really can't seem to follow the combination of for and assoc
08:55	andyf	Once in Venice I spoke a few sentences of probably-broken Italian to a vaporetti ticket seller "I would like 4 72-hour tickets", and without me having spoken a single word of English, he said that back to me (in English), and said "You speak very good English"
08:56	Glenjamin	oh, i think it get it now
08:57	Bronsa	andyf: ahah
08:58	andyf	engblom: Unfortunately clojuredocs.org has nothing added to Clojure since version 1.3. That is not a lot of symbols, but mapv is one of them.
08:58	arrdem	'mornin
08:59	Bronsa	I'd rather have clojuredocs die forever than keep being outdated
08:59	engblom	Why is nobody updating clojuredocs?
09:00	andyf	People are updating ClojureDocs for the symbols that are already there, but only the developers can add new symbols. They haven't had the time/interest.
09:00	engblom	I think they are great as they provide examples for almost everything, so you know you understood the documentation right
09:01	andyf	Someone could come out with a replacement if they were interested and had the right skills, but it would take a chunk of time, initially and ongoing.
09:02	arrdem	engblom: there was a ticket closet on the clojuredocs github page to the effect that there's a clojure rewrite of clojuredocs (it's ruby atm) in the works but "at a point where it's a single committer project" in the last week.
09:02	engblom	Ok
09:02	Glenjamin	arrdem: do you have a link to the rewrite project?
09:03	arrdem	Glenjamin: it's not open yet.
09:03	Glenjamin	oh
09:03	arrdem	afaik
09:03	Glenjamin	is it the one that had about 50 essays about it on the mailing list?
09:03	engblom	I am still trying to get my brain to understand how mapv could be used in my function
09:03	Glenjamin	engblom: i tend to use the cheatsheet, which links to clojuredocs for old fns, and github api docs for new ones
09:03	Glenjamin	engblom: i think i was incorrect
09:03	arrdem	https://github.com/zk/clojuredocs/issues/66
09:04	Glenjamin	i didn't realise that the index was used to produce permutations of the original input vector
09:05	andyf	engblom: My personal favorite variety of the cheatsheet is here: http://jafingerhut.github.io/cheatsheet-clj-1.3/cheatsheet-tiptip-cdocs-summary.html
09:05	andyf	Can get there from clojure.org/cheatsheet in 2 clicks if you forget that link.
09:15	engblom	andyf: Thanks!
09:17	JokerDoom	what's up with the # sign in clojure, I can't figure out the pattern, it seems to be used for a bunch of different stuff, what's the deal
09:17	Glenjamin	think of it like a modifier
09:18	Glenjamin	in fact no
09:18	broquaint	JokerDoom: http://clojure.org/reader#The%20Reader--Macro%20characters
09:18	Glenjamin	think of it like the first character in a two-character thing
09:18	engblom	JokerDoom: You should look up sets and anonymous functions.
09:18	Glenjamin	#{ = sets, #( = fn, #" = regex, #_ = comment etc
09:19	engblom	(inc Glenjamin)
09:19	lazybot	⇒ 5
09:19	broquaint	See also - http://yobriefca.se/blog/2014/05/19/the-weird-and-wonderful-characters-of-clojure/
09:19	whodidthis	so many syntax
09:21	arrdem	on the contrary, all reader macros!
09:22	engblom	Think about this: You could count with only 1 and 0, but then each number becomes quite long to write. That is why we are using 0..9 when forming numbers. Advanced set of elements (which actually are still quite simple) makes shorter code
09:23	arrdem	also since #{} does nothing that (into #{} [ .. elements ]) does it's still entirely first class since you can generate the same datastructure, forget clojure.core/set which wraps the constructor.
09:25	philandstuff	not quite true, you can't do #{(rand-int 100) (rand-int 100)} as that'll fail at read time
09:26	arrdem	yeah but that's the reference compiler being shitty, not a fundimental language limitation
09:26	philandstuff	wait, I got your logic backwards. never mind, carry on
09:26	JokerDoom	so all uses of pound are reader macros?
09:26	JokerDoom	k, that makes sense to me
09:27	arrdem	JokerDoom: all leading uses of #.
09:27	arrdem	,foo#bar
09:27	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: foo#bar in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
09:27	JokerDoom	Yes, leading uses of it definitely
09:27	eraserhd_	No filter-indexed?
09:27	JokerDoom	hrm?
09:27	eraserhd	Hrmm..
09:27	Glenjamin	(map (range) coll) === (map-indexed coll)
09:28	Glenjamin	oh, filter only accepts one coll
09:28	Glenjamin	so that doesn't really help you
09:28	eraserhd	Yeah, that too.
09:28	JokerDoom	thx guys, I think I get it now
09:29	justin_smith	Glenjamin: "(map (range) coll) === (map-indexed coll)" correct in that they are both erroneous in missing a function
09:29	Glenjamin	haha
09:29	Glenjamin	good point
09:30	justin_smith	(map 𝑓 (range) coll) === (map-indexed 𝑓 coll)
09:30	arrdem	if you go throwing out tickets post em here so we can vote 'em up or not.
09:30	justin_smith	why does emacs want 𝑓 to be so tall?
09:31	Glenjamin	,(defn filter-indexed [f coll] (map second (filter f (map (range) coll)))
09:31	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
09:31	Glenjamin	,(defn filter-indexed [f coll] (map second (filter f (map (range) coll))))
09:31	clojurebot	#'sandbox/filter-indexed
09:31	Glenjamin	,(filter-indexed = [0 2 2 4])
09:31	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
09:31	Glenjamin	bah
09:31	Glenjamin	something like that anyway
09:31	hyPiRion	heh.
09:32	justin_smith	Glenjamin: again your example above with map (range)... was missing an f
09:32	Glenjamin	oh, i forgot the damn function to map again
09:32	Glenjamin	,(defn filter-indexed [f coll] (map second (filter f (map identity (range) coll))))
09:32	clojurebot	#'sandbox/filter-indexed
09:32	Glenjamin	,(filter-indexed = [0 2 2 4])
09:32	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core/identity>
09:32	Glenjamin	gah
09:32	justin_smith	maybe you want list?
09:32	Glenjamin	,(defn filter-indexed [f coll] (map second (filter f (map vector (range) coll))))
09:32	clojurebot	#'sandbox/filter-indexed
09:32	justin_smith	or vector
09:32	Glenjamin	,(filter-indexed = [0 2 2 4])
09:32	clojurebot	(0 2 2 4)
09:32	Glenjamin	meh, doesn't work anyway
09:32	Glenjamin	the point was supposed to be that you can just define your own filter-indexed trivially
09:33	Glenjamin	but maybe its not so trivial
09:33	Glenjamin	(it is, i'm just not very good at IRC repling)
09:33	hyPiRion	,(defn filter-indexed [f coll] (map second (filter (fn [[a b]] (f a b)) (map vector (range) coll))))
09:33	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
09:34	eraserhd	,(defn filter-indexed [f coll] (->> coll (map-indexed (fn [[i v]] [(f i v) v])) (filter first) (map second)))
09:34	clojurebot	#'sandbox/filter-indexed
09:34	Glenjamin	,(filter-indexed = [0 2 2 4])
09:34	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: sandbox/filter-indexed/fn--237>
09:35	eraserhd	wut?
09:35	Glenjamin	hyPiRion's seems correct to me, not clear what the error there is
09:36	hyPiRion	mine works, but I had a nbsp in there
09:36	hyPiRion	,(defn filter-indexed [f coll] (map second (filter (fn [[a b]] (f a b)) (map vector (range) coll))))
09:36	clojurebot	#'sandbox/filter-indexed
09:36	hyPiRion	,(filter-indexed = [0 2 2 4])
09:36	clojurebot	(0 2)
09:37	eraserhd	Oh. I see what's wrong with mine.
09:37	hyPiRion	eraserhd: map-indexed uses [], not [[]]
09:37	eraserhd	,(defn filter-indexed [f coll] (->> coll (map-indexed (fn [i v] [(f i v) v])) (filter first) (map second)))
09:37	clojurebot	#'sandbox/filter-indexed
09:37	eraserhd	,(filter-indexed = [0 2 2 4])
09:37	clojurebot	(0 2)
09:37	justin_smith	((fn filter-indexed [filt coll] (map second (filter filt (map list (range) coll)))) #(even? (first %)) [:a :b :c :d :e :f :g])
09:37	justin_smith	,((fn filter-indexed [filt coll] (map second (filter filt (map list (range) coll)))) #(even? (first %)) [:a :b :c :d :e :f :g])
09:37	clojurebot	(:a :c :e :g)
09:38	hyPiRion	And while we're at it, here's the swearjure version:
09:38	hyPiRion	(no)
09:38	justin_smith	heh
09:38	eraserhd	Is there a swearjure compiler yet?
09:39	eraserhd	i mean, with swearjure as the target language?
09:39	arrdem	A Clojure→Swearjure translater?
09:39	arrdem	hyPiRion: get on this
09:40	Glenjamin	https://github.com/timmc/swearjure
09:40	hyPiRion	arrdem: I think TimMc actually attempted to
09:40	hyPiRion	ah yeah, there we go
09:40	hyPiRion	I do have some code which converts a number to a swearjure number, but that's it for my part
09:42	eraserhd	There is a keep-indexed, but no filter-indexed.
09:42	eraserhd	Interesting: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-670?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel#issue-tabs
09:43	arrdem	Clojure:Lisp::LSD:Meditation lowut
09:43	justin_smith	?
09:43	arrdem	https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/uaXwkcjBxkg
09:44	justin_smith	sounds like a grumpy old lisper
09:44	arrdem	ikr
09:44	eraserhd	,(defn filter-indexed [f coll] (keep-indexed #(or (f %1 %2) nil) coll))
09:44	clojurebot	#'sandbox/filter-indexed
09:44	eraserhd	,(filter-indexed = [0 2 2 4])
09:44	clojurebot	(true true)
09:44	hyPiRion	that's no good
09:44	justin_smith	congratulations clojure, welcome to the world of "mindshare" and "popularity"
09:45	eraserhd	,(defn filter-indexed [f coll] (keep-indexed #(if (f %1 %2) true) coll))
09:45	clojurebot	#'sandbox/filter-indexed
09:45	eraserhd	,(filter-indexed = [0 2 2 4])
09:45	clojurebot	(true true)
09:45	kzar	Anyone here managed to use the include tag in a Selmer template?
09:45	justin_smith	maybe if we modified it to say (true :dat) instead, that would help
09:47	eraserhd	Oh, I didn't understand keep-indexed.
09:47	eraserhd	That's a weird function.
09:47	hyPiRion	,(defn filter-indexed [f coll] (keep-indexed #(if (f %1 %2) %2) coll))
09:47	clojurebot	#'sandbox/filter-indexed
09:48	hyPiRion	,(filter-indexed = [0 2 2 4])
09:48	clojurebot	(0 2)
09:48	hyPiRion	eraserhd: keep is equivalent to (remove nil? (map f coll))
09:48	hyPiRion	keep-indexed is the same, but with map replaced as map-indexed
09:48	eraserhd	,(filter-indexed even? [nil nil nil nil])
09:48	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core/even?>
09:49	eraserhd	,(filter-indexed #(even? %2) [nil nil nil nil])
09:49	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Argument must be an integer: >
09:49	eraserhd	,(filter-indexed #(even? %1) [nil nil nil nil])
09:49	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: sandbox/eval129/fn--130>
09:49	hyPiRion	and index is first
09:49	hyPiRion	heh, hard this thing
09:49	eraserhd	,(filter-indexed (fn [i v] (even? i)) [nil nil nil nil])
09:49	clojurebot	()
09:49	Glenjamin	the true reason why filter-indexed isn't in core ;)
09:49	eraserhd	,(filter-indexed (fn [i v] (even? i)) [:a :b :c :d])
09:49	clojurebot	(:a :c)
09:49	eraserhd	Why?
09:49	hyPiRion	eraserhd: oh, nice call.
09:49	clojurebot	http://clojure.org/rationale
09:50	eraserhd	I don't understand how keep-indexed is useful, though. That seems really arbitrary.
09:50	hyPiRion	You cannot use keep-indexed to simulate filter-indexed.
09:51	hyPiRion	eraserhd: keep-indexed is way more useful than when-first though
09:51	hyPiRion	which is the strangest one out there.
09:51	justin_smith	I think we should run the permutations, and keep all the good ones
09:51	Glenjamin	,(doc when-first)
09:51	clojurebot	"([bindings & body]); bindings => x xs Roughly the same as (when (seq xs) (let [x (first xs)] body)) but xs is evaluated only once"
09:51	justin_smith	swap!-indexed
09:51	hyPiRion	justin_smith: commute-indexed
09:54	engblom	Would anyone want to check up the last function (best-move) and see if there is something stupid done, or something that could be better: https://www.refheap.com/86513
09:55	TimMc	eraserhd: Yeah, I was working on a Clojure -> Swearjure compiler, but then I realized I was wasting valuable hours of my life. :-P
09:55	TimMc	I'm happy to give pointers to anyone who wants to move it forward, though! It's a fun exercise.
09:56	TimMc	(If you want to learn more about compilers, that is.)
09:56	arrdem	TimMc: I think that Bronsa and I have plenty of real work for compiler people, besides our stuff could actually be useful one day
09:56	TimMc	nod
09:57	TimMc	I would encourage people to work on that instead.
09:57	kzar	Is selmer a good library for django style templates?
09:58	hyPiRion	arrdem: are you implying that Swearjure is not useful? What blashpemy.
09:58	hyPiRion	*blasphemy
09:58	arrdem	hyPiRion: until we get a TCO compiler totally
09:58	eraserhd	arrdem: I actually signed the CA because of tools.analyzer/clojurescript, and wanting embedded compilation.
10:00	sveri	Hi, I am wondering if its possible to run clojure tests (testing java code) as part of a junit test suite? Has anyone experience with this?
10:03	TimMc	sveri: You mean wih mvn test?
10:03	TimMc	I think the clojure-maven-plugin might provide that.
10:04	kzar	yogthos: If you have a minute I'm having trouble using the include tag from Selmer https://github.com/yogthos/Selmer/issues/45
10:05	sveri	TimMc: Hm, We dont use maven here, so, if I understand you correct, I have to look up for a plugin for the build tool we are using and besides that, a plugin that lets me execute that tests in eclipse
10:05	yogthos	kzar: just commented on the issue on github, you have to use render-file instead of render
10:06	TimMc	sveri: Or just put in a Makefile that runs junit tests and then lein test. :-P
10:07	sveri	TimMc: :D ok, thats another option
10:07	kzar	But with stasis I've already loaded all the files into a map using slurp-directory (and pre-processed them a bit)
10:07	TimMc	What build tool are you using?
10:07	sveri	ant and gradle
10:17	engblom	If I want to check if '([1 2 3] [4 5 6]) contains [1 2 3], is there a ready function i could use?
10:17	arrdem	Clojure core has no O(N) contains scan.
10:18	arrdem	however you can just say (any (map (partial = X) ys))
10:18	justin_smith	,(some #(= [1 2 3] %) '([1 2 3] [4 5 6]))
10:18	clojurebot	true
10:18	arrdem	or that :P
10:18	engblom	Thanks!
10:19	engblom	arrdem: (doc any) gives nothing and it is not on the cheat-sheet either.
10:20	kzar	yogthos: I need to process the contents first (I'm using the Jekyll way of having some YAML at the start of each file setting variables). I then pass the map of variables I've read to selmer for rendering along with the file contents minus the header. Can you think of how I could parse and strip out the yaml, pass the variables through to selmer in a way that I can use include without having to read the file twice?
10:20	arrdem	engblom: any is some, I just get the name wrong all the time.
10:24	justin_smith	arrdem: also no need for the map
10:25	arrdem	,(source some)
10:25	clojurebot	Source not found\n
10:25	justin_smith	$source some
10:25	lazybot	some is http://is.gd/IAmtiP
10:25	arrdem	eh gets you the same linear scan, but some will yield on the first positive result
10:25	justin_smith	right
10:26	arrdem	Which is T(N)=N/2 on average
10:26	ddellacosta	,(some #{[1 2 3]} '([1 2 3] [4 5 6]))
10:26	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
10:27	ddellacosta	also can skip the predicate &
10:27	ddellacosta	erp
10:27	ddellacosta	^
10:27	justin_smith	ddellacosta: well, a set is a predicate :P
10:27	ddellacosta	soo, in the end some would be the more efficient choice regardless, huh?
10:27	justin_smith	I like them for multiple cases, but for only one match a set seems a little silly
10:28	ddellacosta	justin_smith: fair enough, you can use a set vs. fn
10:28	ddellacosta	justin_smith: yeah, suppose that's reasonable
10:28	justin_smith	ddellacosta: some would be more efficient than?
10:28	toast	,(some irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#%7B%5B1 2 3]} '((1 2 3) [4 5 6]))
10:28	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: ]>
10:28	ddellacosta	justin_smith: oh, that was directed at arrdem, asking about efficiency of the some solution you wrote vs. his any solution
10:29	szymanowski	Hi, i've spotted a thing in prismatic's schema that I don't understand, (s/check [s/Int] nil) => nil ; is it feature?
10:29	justin_smith	,any ddellacosta
10:29	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: any in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
10:29	arrdem	ddellacosta: hum?
10:29	toast	,(some irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#%7B%5B1 2 3]} '((1 2 3) [4 5 6]))
10:29	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: ]>
10:29	ddellacosta	woah, what's going on here
10:29	justin_smith	toast, what are you trying to do?
10:29	ddellacosta	crazytown
10:29	arrdem	toast is failing at URLs
10:29	justin_smith	looks like a hotkey for [
10:30	justin_smith	or something
10:30	ddellacosta	toast, are you a mess bot?
10:30	toast	I was trying to change the vector to a list
10:30	ddellacosta	oh
10:30	justin_smith	toast - there is pretty much never a reason to turn a vector into a list in clojure
10:30	justin_smith	at least not explicitly
10:30	ddellacosta	if you really want to, I suppose you could
10:30	ddellacosta	,(into '() [1 2 3])
10:30	clojurebot	(3 2 1)
10:31	Glenjamin	heh
10:31	toast	,(some #{[1]} '((1)))
10:31	clojurebot	[1]
10:31	Glenjamin	into uses conj
10:31	toast	no
10:31	toast	not programatically
10:31	ddellacosta	not...programatically?
10:32	toast	I was changing the vector in ddellacosta's example to a list
10:32	philandstuff	,(seq [1 2 3]) turns it into a seq, which is close enough
10:32	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
10:32	ddellacosta	toast: ah, I see, you wanted to see if it would match on that?
10:32	ddellacosta	,(some #{[1 2 3]} '((1 2 3) [4 5 6]))
10:32	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
10:33	toast	yeah
10:33	ddellacosta	gotcha
10:33	toast	is there a pred that would return false?
10:33	toast	(or nil)
10:34	toast	not that I need to do this, just idle curiosity
10:34	toast	;
10:34	justin_smith	,(#(apply = (map class %&)) [1 2 3] '(1 2 3))
10:34	clojurebot	false
10:34	justin_smith	checking for equal type and equal contents together is left as an exercise for the reader
10:35	ddellacosta	this channel is getting out of hand
10:35	llasram	ddellacosta: How so?
10:35	CookedGryphon	hi, if I'm using a deftype generated class from Java, and my code has been aot compiled, do I still need to invoke require of the appropriate namespace in java?
10:35	TimMc	justin_smith: identical? :-P
10:36	justin_smith	TimMc: much better, thanks
10:36	llasram	ddellacosta: JOKES????!
10:36	llasram	~guards
10:36	clojurebot	SEIZE HIM!
10:36	justin_smith	,(identical? '(1 2 3) '(1 2 3)) TimMc; probably not what we want here
10:36	clojurebot	false
10:37	TimMc	justin_smith: It will work sometimes, though!
10:37	TimMc	,(identical? '() '())
10:37	clojurebot	true
10:37	justin_smith	~sometimes
10:37	clojurebot	Huh?
10:38	arrdem	friggin really... can you not make a vector with an explicit length?
10:39	TimMc	What, like one filled with nils?
10:39	arrdem	looks like even going array to vector incurs O(N) conj's.
10:39	ddellacosta	hmm
10:39	TimMc	&(count (vec (object-array 5)))
10:39	lazybot	⇒ 5
10:39	TimMc	&(class (vec (object-array 5)))
10:39	lazybot	⇒ clojure.lang.PersistentVector
10:39	justin_smith	TimMc: but is that calling conj 5 times?
10:40	TimMc	arrdem: I thought that would just adopt the array.
10:40	arrdem	TimMc: I'll check core.clj but PersistentVector.java doesn't seem to allow that
10:40	TimMc	&(let [a (object-array 5), v (vec a)] (aset a 0 :hi) v)
10:40	lazybot	⇒ [:hi nil nil nil nil]
10:41	TimMc	^ I think that demonstrates a lack of conj'ing.
10:41	justin_smith	oh, fascinating
10:41	TimMc	Mileage may vary if array is larger than 32, or if you try to conj to this one.
10:41	arrdem	,(let [a (object-array 64), v (vec a)] (aset a 0 :hi) v)
10:41	clojurebot	[nil nil nil nil nil ...]
10:41	TimMc	I was expecting a LazilyPersistentVector.
10:42	arrdem	,(drop 30 (let [a (object-array 64), v (vec a)] (aset a 0 :hi) v))
10:42	clojurebot	(nil nil nil nil nil ...)
10:42	arrdem	funky
10:42	TimMc	&(let [a (object-array 5), v (conj (vec a) :end)] (aset a 0 :hi) v)
10:42	lazybot	⇒ [nil nil nil nil nil :end]
10:42	clgv	,(binding [print-length 64] (let [a (object-array 64), v (vec a)] (aset a 0 :hi) (prn v)))
10:42	clojurebot	[nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]\n
10:42	TimMc	^ So conj'ing creates a new array. You take the hit at first modification.
10:43	arrdem	hum...
10:43	clgv	the small array optimization is weird
10:43	clgv	wouldnt be too expensive to just use System/arraycopy there
10:43	TimMc	Right? It's a small array, why wouldn't you just copy it?
10:43	clgv	TimMc: exactly! jira ticket!
10:43	TimMc	Not a chance.
10:44	clgv	or maybe there is already one since the observation is not new ;)
10:44	clgv	TimMc: why not? windmills?
10:44	TimMc	There's probably something about frequent use of vectors to wrap tiny arrays produced during compilation.
10:44	TimMc	Windmills.
10:45	clgv	:(
10:46	clgv	that's a real weird special case that has almost php quality ;)
10:47	Glenjamin	windmills?
10:47	TimMc	Tilting at.
10:47	clgv	:D
10:48	Glenjamin	ah
10:48	Glenjamin	thats two new phrases i've learnt in two days here
10:48	Glenjamin	although i forgot what yesterday's was
10:48	clgv	yeah that was a little indirect, I am glad TimMc knew what I meant ;)
11:11	hellofunk	Yes
11:12	justin_smith	~coin
11:12	clojurebot	Pardon?
11:13	hyPiRion	there is no coin, only (rand 2)
11:13	arrdem	2d6
11:13	clojurebot	9
11:13	arrdem	hyPiRion is a pack of lies
11:13	hyPiRion	~flip
11:13	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
11:13	justin_smith	hyPiRion: lazybot has a coin command
11:13	hellofunk	"There is no ass." -- Woody Allen
11:13	justin_smith	hyPiRion: I had the wrong bot
11:13	hyPiRion	$coin
11:13	lazybot	hyPiRion: Heads.
11:14	fenrock_away	$die
11:14	justin_smith	$coin
11:14	lazybot	justin_smith: Tails.
11:14	fenrock_away	$dice
11:14	fenrock_away	what, no dice?
11:14	hyPiRion	die is probably not something lazybot would do on command
11:14	justin_smith	$3d6 (rolling up a paladin)
11:14	hyPiRion	not intentionally at least
11:15	arrdem	2d20
11:15	clojurebot	22
11:15	fenrock	haha
11:15	fenrock	1d6
11:15	clojurebot	5
11:15	arrdem	21+3d6
11:15	justin_smith	1d1
11:15	clojurebot	1
11:16	arrdem	3d6+21
11:16	clojurebot	27
11:16	clgv	:P
11:16	arrdem	wow fail roll
11:16	arrdem	3d6+21
11:16	clojurebot	31
11:16	arrdem	there we go
11:16	fenrock	1d100
11:16	clojurebot	70
11:16	fenrock	i parry the blow
11:16	clgv	1dLong/MAX_VALUE
11:16	clgv	:/
11:16	clgv	;)
11:17	TimMc	1d८
11:17	TimMc	:-(
11:17	hyPiRion	100d100
11:17	clojurebot	4827
11:17	arrdem	(inc justin_smith)
11:17	lazybot	⇒ 47
11:17	hyPiRion	2147483647d2147483647
11:17	hyPiRion	=(
11:17	arrdem	hyPiRion: wat
11:17	clgv	2147483647d2147483647d2147483647d2147483647
11:18	clgv	oops :P
11:18	llasram	1d-6
11:18	fenrock	1d2147483647
11:18	clgv	1d9223372036854775807
11:18	hyPiRion	arrdem: isn't it obvious what I'm trying to do? roll 231-1 231-1 sided dies?
11:18	hyPiRion	dice*
11:19	fenrock	ok clojurebot, what's the largest dice you have in your bag?
11:19	arrdem	hyPiRion: wat
11:19	arrdem	fenrock: dice is plural...
11:19	hyPiRion	2d2
11:19	hyPiRion	oh, it's probably doing my calculation. Hurray!
11:19	fenrock	i know, someone thought it was rude to say die to the bot
11:19	llasram	Or hiredman tired of our games
11:20	cbp	,(+ 1 1)
11:20	cbp	o gods
11:20	fenrock	oh dear, bot is busy
11:20	justin_smith	I think that dice roll is going to take a long time to calculate
11:20	clgv	hyPiRion: :P well seems that not all plugins have timeouts ;)
11:20	arrdem	hyPiRion: what have you done
11:21	cbp	i hope it doesn't have clgv's queued up
11:21	clgv	let us hope that clojurebot is on a vserver and not something aws like ;)
11:21	hyPiRion	cbp: it contains 3 d's, not sure if that would be parsed correctly
11:21	clgv	cbp: unlikely since the first one is illformated
11:21	cbp	oh
11:21	justin_smith	lets cross our fingers that it uses a promoting integral type, so we get a crazy big number, and not a random overflow result
11:21	clgv	probably also a lot of boxing unboxing happening there ;)
11:22	justin_smith	yeah
11:22	arrdem	BigInts get so big for rollin that die up
11:22	hyPiRion	justin_smith: would've crashed by now if that were the case, I think.
11:22	sdegutis	We're one step closer to 0-downtime deploys :D
11:22	clgv	hyPiRion: damn what did I paste there? :P
11:22	sdegutis	Currently we can do so as long as there are no database changes.
11:23	sdegutis	But I wonder if Datomic makes that even easier if there are database changes...
11:23	hyPiRion	clgv: I think you did "2147483647d2147483647" d "2147483647d2147483647", i.e. copypaste my query and forgot to remove the d's
11:24	fenrock	,(println "i'm alive!")
11:25	fenrock	do println's normally work, or only returns with meaningful value?
11:25	fenrock	,(str "hello")
11:25	clgv	use lazybot
11:25	TimMc	Bot's not talking.
11:25	gtrak	&wat
11:25	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: wat in this context
11:25	clgv	fenrock: clojurebot is currently busy with important business ;)
11:25	clgv	&(println "use me!")
11:25	Glenjamin	oh neat, clojars got web 3.0-ed
11:25	lazybot	⇒ use me! nil
11:26	fenrock	well calculating the hardest paladin hit in the world
11:26	clgv	Glenjamin: wow!
11:26	clgv	isnt that 2.0? :P
11:26	justin_smith	fenrock: ##(nth 100 (iterate str "hello"))
11:26	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Cons cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
11:26	justin_smith	err
11:26	justin_smith	fenrock: ##(nth (iterate str "hello") 100)
11:26	lazybot	⇒ "hello"
11:26	TimMc	justin_smith: I always get nth's arg order wrong.
11:27	cbp	clojars got bootstrap'ed
11:27	Glenjamin	web 2.0 would be social features
11:27	fenrock	so & is working, but not , ?
11:27	justin_smith	TimMc: it's that whole "collection comes last, except for when we don't feel like it" thing
11:27	Glenjamin	large masthead and 3-wide boxes for feature lists is 3.0
11:28	justin_smith	fenrock: the bot that does , is busy rolling obscene numbers of dice
11:28	fenrock	ah, multibots
11:28	gtrak	&(Thread/sleep 100000)
11:28	justin_smith	it must be intentional that clojurebot does not use threads to execute requests
11:29	justin_smith	gtrak: lol
11:29	lazybot	Execution Timed Out!
11:29	clgv	the "clojars" text color is not optimal yet ;)
11:29	justin_smith	bots do need naps after all
11:29	fenrock	&(str "i'm not that stupid")
11:29	lazybot	⇒ "i'm not that stupid"
11:29	Glenjamin	xeqi: i think the background colour on the bits to copy-paste on package pages is a tad low contrast
11:29	Glenjamin	looks ace in general though :)
11:29	clgv	justin_smith: for eval he has a timeout..
11:29	justin_smith	fenrock: ##"he's also not this stupid"
11:29	fenrock	haha
11:30	justin_smith	fenrock: str on a java.lang.String is kind of silly
11:30	gtrak	&@(future "TESTING")
11:30	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! future-call is bad!
11:30	gtrak	awww
11:30	fenrock	but ##"didn't work"
11:30	justin_smith	right, that's a lazybot thing, not a clojure thing
11:30	justin_smith	&"OK"
11:30	lazybot	⇒ "OK"
11:30	gtrak	&(send (agent) (println "How about agents"))
11:30	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! send is bad!
11:31	gtrak	bad syntax anyway, it's for the best.
11:31	fenrock	&true
11:31	lazybot	⇒ true
11:31	clgv	should work: ##(inc 42)
11:31	lazybot	⇒ 43
11:32	justin_smith	I think ## must require a (
11:32	fenrock	#true
11:32	TimMc	clojurebot should be restarting shortly. 15 minute restart cycle, right?
11:33	fenrock	##true
11:33	clgv	TimMc: ah lol, I thought that were timed sessions...
11:33	justin_smith	where there is alway ##(identity identity)
11:33	lazybot	⇒ #<core$identity clojure.core$identity@1c34652>
11:33	TimMc	Nah, nuke and reload.
11:33	sdegutis	,((identity identity))
11:33	clgv	pretty crafty ;)
11:33	TimMc	Or rather, the eval service is restarted.
11:33	justin_smith	sdegutis: too few args
11:34	sdegutis	justin_smith: why did not the bot tell me?
11:34	clgv	TimMc: well currently it is not evaluating ;)
11:34	justin_smith	sdegutis: it is busy rolling an assload of dice
11:34	justin_smith	and maybe restarting
11:34	sdegutis	really??
11:34	lazybot	sdegutis: Uh, no. Why would you even ask?
11:34	nbeloglazov	Is there any reason why 'vec' uses 2 different styles for calling static method: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L354 ? Or is it simply inconsistency?
11:34	gfredericks	technomancy: here's a middle ground for the having-things-refered-in-every-namespace issue
11:35	gfredericks	technomancy: have a hook in the nrepl client or nrepl middleware that preps a namespace only when you switch your repl to it
11:35	sdegutis	Finally negated our dependency on lein-ring!
11:35	sdegutis	(Successfully, too.)
11:35	TimMc	sdegutis: Scroll up, clojurebot is busy rolling some 2147483647-sided dice.
11:35	gfredericks	that way you at least aren't mucking in arbitrary lib namespaces you don't care about
11:35	tbaldridge	nbeloglazov: the LazyPersistentVector works better on things that are already collections (non seqs). So it just wraps the existing structure
11:36	sdegutis	TimMc: lazybot also answers ,() forms, no?
11:36	hyPiRion	sdegutis: that's clojurebot
11:36	TimMc	Only in private chat.
11:36	sdegutis	##((identity identity) identity)
11:36	lazybot	⇒ #<core$identity clojure.core$identity@1c34652>
11:36	clgv	sdegutis: no
11:36	clgv	&(inc 42)
11:36	lazybot	⇒ 43
11:36	hyPiRion	lazybot: ,()
11:36	sdegutis	##(take 3 (iterate identity))
11:36	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$iterate
11:36	fenrock	1d6
11:36	justin_smith	(nth (iterate identity identity) 100000)
11:36	justin_smith	&(nth (iterate identity identity) 100000)
11:36	lazybot	⇒ #<core$identity clojure.core$identity@1c34652>
11:37	nbeloglazov	tbaldridge: the question why use (. MyClass (method)) and (MyClass/method) in the same method? Why not to use same notation for both cases.
11:37	sdegutis	##(take 3 (iterate identity identity))
11:37	lazybot	⇒ (#<core$identity clojure.core$identity@1c34652> #<core$identity clojure.core$identity@1c34652> #<core$identity clojure.core$identity@1c34652>)
11:37	gfredericks	gtrak: what happens at the nrepl level when I switch my repl namespace?
11:37	tbaldridge	nbeloglazov: ah, no clue. One is probably older than the other
11:38	sdegutis	##(->> (iterate identity identity) (take 404) (reduce #(%1 %2)))
11:38	lazybot	⇒ #<core$identity clojure.core$identity@1c34652>
11:38	gtrak	gfredericks: hrm :-), probably just an eval, lemme check.
11:38	TimMc	sdegutis: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2013-04-03.html#19:51b
11:38	sdegutis	TimMc: :D
11:39	gfredericks	gtrak: I'm thinking I want a prep-namespace hook of some sort
11:39	rkneufeld	tpope: In the last little while it seems like cpr has evolved to Require\|RunTests. In my case, I feel like it is just running the tests, not requiring the file. Can I ask you what the expected behavior is?
11:42	clgv	,:back?
11:43	fenrock	clearly didn't like all those die commands
11:43	justin_smith	TimMc: ##(identity (identity ((identity nth) (iterate identity identity) (identity 1000000)))) in that same spirit
11:43	lazybot	⇒ #<core$identity clojure.core$identity@1c34652>
11:47	gtrak	gfredericks: its' just evaling in-ns
11:47	gfredericks	gtrak: hmmmmmmmm
11:47	gfredericks	gtrak: does a middleware seems like the right place to solve this problem?
11:48	clgv	TimMc: how about NPjure? probably you wont be able to program anything in deterministic polynomial time ;)
11:48	clgv	+with it
11:48	gtrak	gfredericks: not sure, I'm guessing you might want to require the ns before switching to it? seems like that might be better with an elisp defcustom.
11:50	gfredericks	gtrak: I'm talking about referring things after switching to the namespace;
11:50	gfredericks	the tricky part being detecting that you've just switched namespaces
11:50	TimMc	clgv: Hmm?
11:50	TimMc	What would NPjure be?
11:51	gtrak	oh, hmm.
11:51	clgv	TimMc: that the problem you cant decide efficiently which programs are written with it ;)
11:52	TimMc	Sorry, still not getting it.
11:52	clgv	TimMc: NP referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-complete
11:53	gtrak	gfredericks: yea, I'm not sure how that would work, since eval itself is a middleware.
11:53	gfredericks	gtrak: one approach to this is to just shove vars into clojure.core; there's a lib that does that somewhere; seems terrible
11:54	gtrak	is it that bad to throw it in user?
11:54	gfredericks	huh?
11:54	gfredericks	are you assuming we only use the user namespace at the repl?
11:54	gtrak	instead of having extra symbols, just qualify them with user/
11:54	gfredericks	oooh
11:54	gfredericks	it's...no fun?
11:55	gtrak	hahaha
11:55	gfredericks	a single character namespace might be tolerable
11:55	gfredericks	u/pprint
11:55	gfredericks	,(ns u) (def x 42)
11:55	gtrak	yea, I do that all the time, but u's an alias for a project ns.
11:56	justin_smith	(ns ∀ ...)
11:56	gtrak	we ended up with a util.util namespace after a while, uu :-).
11:56	gfredericks	I'm wondering what happens when a namespace uses :as u
11:56	gfredericks	yeah the alias overrides the actual namespace name
11:56	gfredericks	which is good
11:56	TimMc	clgv: Right, but I'm not getting what you're proposing. A language that does what? Has what characteristics?
11:57	gtrak	you can also have aliases with dots in them.
11:57	gtrak	so go figure.
11:57	gfredericks	&'//3
11:57	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: //3
11:57	gfredericks	&'//x
11:57	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: //x
11:57	gfredericks	I was hoping it would interpret / as the namespace portion :)
11:58	clgv	TimMc: no it was no real proposal. since with palindromjure the valid expressions of the language got more complicated - I thought why not make it inefficient to findout whether the expression belongs to the language ;)
11:58	clgv	*probably inefficient
11:58	TimMc	Ah, hmm.
11:58	TimMc	You mean like C++?
11:59	clgv	:P
12:00	TimMc	My understanding is you need a Turing machine to parse C++.
12:00	gfredericks	(ns =) ; goes well with dvorak
12:00	arrdem	TimMc: correct, C++ is a context sensitive grammar
12:01	TimMc	arrdem: I thought CSG wasn't sufficient either.
12:01	TimMc	I don't know C++ though, so I'm happy to take your word for it.
12:02	arrdem	TimMc: CSG is the weakest grammar that requires a TM for its implementation..
12:02	arrdem	beyond that you have undecidable grammars and infinite grammars
12:02	arrdem	c++ may in fact be undecidable, but I hope not
12:02	TimMc	Oh! We never got into CSGs in my theory of compuation course, so I assumed there was a weaker machine you could use for them.
12:03	justin_smith	Schroedinger's grammer - the compiler both compiled and failed to compile your code, until you run the program and find out
12:03	justin_smith	(aka perl for example)
12:03	arrdem	hehe
12:04	hyPiRion	TimMc: you can use weaker machines for some specific CSGs, but that's sort of cheating
12:05	clgv	huh, outofmemoryexception immanent on 16GB RAM :( I need a better data format than clojure maps for that data...
12:05	dbasch	out-of-context grammars: where the compiler errors out with “sorry, that was too funny” and posts it to http://www.reddit.com/r/nocontext
12:05	justin_smith	hah
12:07	philandstuff	CSGs require linear bounded automata
12:07	justin_smith	clgv: maybe is vanilla java.util.HashMap, but have a strict handoff semantics (where the map is never modified by a previous owner after being passed to the next function)? but of course you cannot enforce that, it takes discipline to do it properly
12:07	philandstuff	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_bounded_automaton
12:08	clgv	justin_smith: yeah or maybe I should start to use a database for that stuff since that looks suitable and I could probably split certain tasks into multiple queries
12:09	justin_smith	clgv: another option: a core.async go block reading [k v] pairs from a channel
12:09	justin_smith	then it is clear that only that block owns the map, and via lexical closure it can't be accidentally tampered with
12:10	justin_smith	where map here is a java.util.HashMap
12:10	clgv	justin_smith: that would only help if it served as a pipe between two files but not for the current situation where all the data needs to be in memory
12:10	justin_smith	clgv: well it could also have a copy on output channel to provide the map to others
12:11	clgv	I dont think core.sasync would serve me well here
12:11	justin_smith	or is it that all the data is really too big for one map (and not the gc pressure of clojure map impl being a concern)
12:11	justin_smith	clgv: just a way to close over the mutable object without increasing size
12:12	justin_smith	but if it is really just too much info for a map, even a non-persistent one, yeah use a db, of course (which is effectively a mutable map with a high latency)
12:14	tbaldridge	clgv: the caching ability of Datomic might help there. You can walk entities like clojure hashmaps, Datomic will cache commonly accessed data
12:15	tbaldridge	clgv: that being said, I haven't the slightest clue about what you're trying to do, so ignore me if I'm saying stupid stuff. :-)
12:16	clgv	tbaldridge: analysis of data, mostly calculating metrics
12:17	tbaldridge	clgv: might be worth looking into then. Roomkey uses Datomic for both online and offline data analysis.
12:20	arrdem	tbaldridge: thoughts on trying to rewrite multi-arity functions to single-arity functions (where possible mod apply usage) and then tree shaking? I just had the thought that if single arity resolution is possible it may open up inlining opportunities.
12:22	Bronsa	arrdem: :inline works for multi arities too IIRC
12:22	tbaldridge	why is single-arity conversion a prerequisite for inlining? I think you should be able to just inline the single arity being used.
12:22	arrdem	Bronsa: really? /me checks definline
12:23	clgv	arrdem: don't use definline just use :inline metadata
12:23	arrdem	clgv: I know that, but definline has the restriction documentation
12:24	clgv	arrdem: for itself yes
12:24	clgv	arrdem: clojure.core has examples for multi-arity inlines
12:25	arrdem	clgv: looks like vardic is the only thing that inline doesn't support.
12:25	cbp	,1
12:25	clgv	arrdem: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L1417
12:26	cbp	dammit guys
12:27	TimMc	^ When neither a facepalm or a headdesk will quite express your emotions.
12:28	clgv	:D
12:29	TimMc	palmdesk is of course something else entirely ("Dammit, hyPiRion!")
12:29	kzar	laptopwindow
12:30	technomancy	keyboarddefenestration
12:30	arrdem	http://arrdem.com/i/spock.gif
12:30	arrdem	frik
12:30	technomancy	http://p.hagelb.org/spock.gif
12:30	cbp	uh
12:30	technomancy	it's cool; I got it =)
12:30	cbp	step down son
12:31	arrdem	(inc technomancy)
12:31	lazybot	⇒ 114
12:31	Bronsa	ahaha
12:31	Bronsa	(inc technomancy)
12:31	lazybot	⇒ 115
12:32	hlship	So, I'm pretty committed to some solutions using core.async
12:32	hlship	and I'm getting a bit of pushback
12:32	hlship	the "well, name some high-profile apps that use it"
12:32	TimMc	ugh
12:32	hlship	(this is JVM, not JS use of core.async)
12:33	gtrak	lol.
12:33	gtrak	Google.
12:33	Glenjamin	what would you use if you didn't use core.async?
12:33	TimMc	Name some high-profile apps that use Clojure.
12:33	hlship	exactly, it's pretty silly
12:33	Kowboy	quick, name some high profile apps that use the JVM
12:34	technomancy	"It's got Tony Hoare's name on it; it's gotta be good."
12:34	cbp	I can't imagine doing gui without async honestly :-S
12:34	gfredericks	name some high profile apps
12:34	TimMc	gfredericks: Naming is hard!
12:34	hlship	without core.async I would need a significant redesign, and throw lots of cpu/threads/memory at same problem
12:34	arrdem	cpus are cheap...
12:34	TimMc	But, uh... icarus-firewall, there's a name you can use.
12:34	gtrak	forgiveness instead of permission?
12:35	gtrak	datomic must definitely uses it.
12:36	tbaldridge	most of datomic predates core.async
12:36	gfredericks	best single-character name for a repl util namespace? I'm thinking "u" or "="
12:36	tbaldridge	I have absolutely no clue one way or the other, but I'm sure looking at the datomic deps would provide some answers
12:37	gfredericks	I'd like one of #{"$" "%" "&" "*"} also but I still have to use shift to type them
12:37	TimMc	gfredericks: .
12:37	Bronsa	gtrak: looking at the datomic pom I don't see a core.async dep
12:37	gfredericks	TimMc: holy crap I didn't know that worked
12:37	TimMc	Wait, does it?
12:37	gfredericks	in my repl
12:37	arrdem	,(require '[clojure.string :as .])
12:37	clojurebot	eval service is offline
12:37	TimMc	ahhhhhhh
12:37	hlship	I'm downloading Datomic right now to see what's in it
12:37	TimMc	I'm sorry I mentioned it.
12:37	gfredericks	./ is pretty quick for me to type too
12:38	TimMc	That's horrifying.
12:38	Bronsa	TimMc: well . is a valid symbol so I don't see why that shouldn't work
12:38	arrdem	good grief ./ works..
12:39	Bronsa	I mean you can even (def . 1)
12:39	hlship	yes, no sign that Datomic uses core.async
12:39	arrdem	Bronsa: you're still gonna get that cdot patch
12:39	TimMc	Bronsa: I would expect interop to claim it in a bunch of contexts.
12:39	Bronsa	TimMc: in call position, yes
12:39	Bronsa	arrdem: you'll have to try real hard to convince me on that.
12:39	tbaldridge	pedestal uses core.async. But I'm not sure if that's "high profile" enough
12:40	gfredericks	man I'm totally about to do ./
12:40	arrdem	TimMc: should be ok so long as it's just in symbol/var strings..
12:40	TimMc	what have I done
12:40	gfredericks	I've already got special neurons dedicated to this key combination thanks to bash
12:41	TimMc	(./join "a" "bc") -- it's just an accident of the compiler that that isn't turned into (. "a" /join "bc"), right?
12:41	clgv	1d5
12:41	clgv	? ;)
12:41	arrdem	Bronsa: I'm open to better aliases for concat
12:41	clgv	oh ok accidental reply
12:41	clgv	,(inc 42)
12:41	clojurebot	43
12:41	nullptr`	:as . all the things!
12:41	clgv	^^
12:41	Bronsa	arrdem: whatever I can reach from my keyboard without using AltGr is fine :P
12:42	technomancy	gfredericks: I like it
12:42	arrdem	Bronsa: dude you just need to use TeX as your input method :P
12:42	technomancy	it's twisted
12:42	Bronsa	TimMc: not really an accident, .foo works on the symbol name
12:42	Bronsa	arrdem: rrrright at that point I'd rather AltGr . than \cdot
12:42	gfredericks	technomancy: ./ you mean?
12:42	technomancy	yup
12:43	Bronsa	TimMc: ie. try (foo/.toString 1)
12:43	arrdem	Bronsa: hah fair
12:43	clgv	&(read-string "(./join a bc)")
12:43	lazybot	⇒ (./join a bc)
12:43	clgv	&(macroexpand-1 (read-string "(./join a bc)"))
12:43	lazybot	⇒ (./join a bc)
12:44	philandstuff	is there a way to access clojure's jira over https?
12:44	philandstuff	and I'm not being paranoid; one of my colleagues owns a wifi pineapple :P
12:45	arrdem	philandstuff: have you checked your ethernet for throwing star splitters? :P
12:45	TimMc	Bronsa: Hmm... yeah, true. The interop stuff only takes a swing at already-parsed syntax.
12:46	gfredericks	,(require '.)
12:46	clojurebot	#<FileNotFoundException java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate /__init.class or /.clj on classpath: >
12:46	Bronsa	TimMc: my point was that the "." interop thingy only works on the name part of a symbol
12:46	TimMc	philandstuff: Ever since a year ago, it's not paranoia, it's common sense.
12:46	gfredericks	lol apparently I will have to call this file "src/.clj"
12:46	philandstuff	TimMc: well quite
12:47	arrdem	gfredericks: please do
12:47	TimMc	I mean, we already knew, but now we know.
12:47	TimMc	gfredericks: oh jesus
12:47	clgv	gfredericks: not "..clj"?
12:47	gfredericks	apparently not
12:47	clgv	gfredericks: have fun AOTing that thing ;)
12:48	clgv	or does it convert to __DOT__ ?
12:48	gfredericks	,(fn . [])
12:48	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval123$_DOT___124 sandbox$eval123$_DOT___124@1c7b3c2>
12:48	gfredericks	in other cases
12:48	gfredericks	not namespace names though
12:48	gfredericks	I wonder how the core team would react to a jira ticket asking for better support for (ns .)
12:48	TimMc	&(ns-munge ".")
12:48	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ns-munge in this context
12:49	TimMc	&(namespace-munge ".")
12:49	lazybot	⇒ "."
12:50	clgv	haha ^^
12:50	Bronsa	oh boy ns-munge is really called namespace-munge?
12:50	Bronsa	that's so inconsistent
12:51	gfredericks	&(apropos "namespace")
12:51	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: apropos in this context
12:51	arrdem	Bronsa: jira ticket!
12:51	gfredericks	&(clojure.repl/apropos "namespace")
12:51	lazybot	⇒ (print-suppress-namespaces namespace namespace-munge file->namespaces namespaces-on-classpath namespaces-in-dir)
12:51	clgv	Bronsa: why? it does not operate on a give namespace
12:51	TimMc	&(apropos-better 'apropos)
12:51	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: apropos-better in this context
12:51	clgv	it's only lengthy
12:51	clgv	,(use 'clojure.repl)
12:51	clojurebot	nil
12:51	Bronsa	clgv: you have a point
12:51	clgv	,(apropos "namespace")
12:51	clojurebot	(namespace namespace-munge)
12:51	gfredericks	now I need to decide where to setup this special namespace
12:52	gfredericks	e.g., src/.clj, or my leiningen :repl options, or...
12:52	clgv	I still wonder why it is not "..clj"
12:53	gfredericks	clgv: because it turns "." into "/"
12:53	gfredericks	&(namespace-munge "foo.bar")
12:53	lazybot	⇒ "foo.bar"
12:53	gfredericks	sorta
12:54	clgv	,(require .)
12:54	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: . in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
12:54	clgv	,(require '.)
12:54	clojurebot	#<FileNotFoundException java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate /__init.class or /.clj on classpath: >
12:55	clgv	&(clojure-version)
12:55	lazybot	⇒ "1.4.0"
12:55	clgv	&(require '.)
12:55	lazybot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate /__init.class or /.clj on classpath:
12:55	TimMc	gfredericks: So you have your heart set on (require '.) instead of (require '[my.utils :as .])?
12:55	clgv	at least ".clj" is a "hidden" file ;)
12:55	gfredericks	TimMc: yes, because I want it to work everywhere instead of having to prep every namespace I use yn my repl
12:55	gfredericks	that's the main problem I'm trying to solve
12:56	TimMc	I see, so you want a very short way to get it.
12:56	TimMc	and you don't want keyboard macros or whatever
12:57	gfredericks	hadn't considered keyboard macros
12:57	whodidthis	clgv: file name is whatever comes after . i guess
12:58	CookedGryphon	Hey, does anyone know if I can use classes made with deftype in java directly?
12:58	CookedGryphon	if so how?
12:58	gfredericks	CookedGryphon: AOT probably? you could also write interfaces in java and code to those, then have the deftype implement them
12:58	CookedGryphon	not what I'm trying for
12:59	CookedGryphon	I'm writing some stuff in java, and want to generate a tuple as defined by clj-tuple
12:59	llasram	CookedGryphon: By `directly` do you mean e.g. mentioning the `deftype` type by name in the Java source?
12:59	arrdem	gtrak: the deftype should become <ns path>.MyType from Java's point of view.
12:59	llasram	CookedGryphon: Oh, for that just use the Clojure API to get the tuple-creating var-function
12:59	hiredman	CookedGryphon: sure, just load the clj-tuple namespace and call the clj-tuple functions from java
12:59	llasram	And call it from Java just like you would like from Clojure
12:59	gtrak	arrdem: thanks :-)
12:59	arrdem	gtrak: herp derp
13:00	CookedGryphon	yep, I can do that, I was just wondering if I could actually use the underlying classes it generates directly
13:00	llasram	Best not to
13:00	danneu	I run an active forum where I render Markdown posts to HTML and cache them in resources/cache/posts/<post-id>.html. My forum now has 1,172,002 posts. What are the implications of having so many files in an Ubuntu folder?
13:00	CookedGryphon	for example the 2-arity implementation of (tuple 2 2) is just (Tuple2 2 2 nil)
13:00	CookedGryphon	sorry (Tuple2. 2 2 nil)
13:00	danneu	`ls` takes forever to run and I ctrl-C'd it after 40 seconds
13:01	llasram	Introducing a multi-way Java<->AOT-Clojure dependency would make your build sad and tricky
13:01	CookedGryphon	fair enough, that sounds like my answer
13:01	ToxicFrog	danneu: ...are you sure you have the right channel?
13:01	CookedGryphon	I'll just invoke the clj-tuple/tuple fn, thanks for the discussion
13:03	hiredman	CookedGryphon: if you are just looking for jvm tuples boundary has a neat jvm tuple library
13:04	danneu	ToxicFrog: i ask generic dev questions here cuz yall my people
13:04	fenrock	CookedGryphon: there's good examples of this on page 389 of Clojure Programming.
13:04	CookedGryphon	hiredman: thanks, but I'm passing into clojure code which makes use of tuple's fast destructuring etc
13:08	TimMc	danneu: Probably depends on your filesystem.
13:09	TimMc	Do a search for something like ext2 directory size
13:09	Bronsa	danneu: maybe you have something mounted via ssh-fs and it's no longer reachable?
13:10	Bronsa	danneu: oh sorry I didn't read the first part of your question :)
13:12	ToxicFrog	danneu: fair enough
13:12	ToxicFrog	danneu: anyways, as you've already noticed doing anything with that dir will be slow as hell. You won't be able to use * in it, since you'll exceed the command line length limit.
13:12	ToxicFrog	You may eventually start hitting filesystem limits, although that depends on the fs and what settings it was created with.
13:14	umpa	How do you loop recur with sequences as parameters ? https://www.refheap.com/86521
13:17	danneu	ToxicFrog: it's an ext3 disk. folder has 1170377 files which is way above the ext3 limits i find from casual google queries
13:18	johnwalker	how do you use clojure.java.io/writer with a FileWriter?
13:20	ToxicFrog	danneu: ext3 doesn't have a maximum number of files per directory, AFAIK, although it does have a maximum per filesystem (based on how many inodes were allocated at fs creation time).
13:20	ToxicFrog	danneu: it does have a maximum number of subdirectories per directory, though.
13:21	stain	the shell will have limits though
13:21	ToxicFrog	Oh yeah
13:21	ToxicFrog	Hence my comment about not being able to use * in that directory
13:21	danneu	looks like i'm doing `if (io/resource (str "cache/posts/" (:post/uid post) ".html")) ...` to see if a post exists in that massive directory. i guess i can recreate a massive directoring in a VM to see how long that takes
13:21	stain	that's why it is good to use part of the filename/id as subdirectories.. for instance .git/objects/59/1d2525b691251bd9f52848a1e9e2325f013ae2
13:22	danneu	i saw that HN recently moved from a similar system to a /12/12345.html, /12/12346.html
13:23	stain	I do a similar thing in a zipfile structure I build.. where every data item has a UUID, so I just use the first two characters as subfolder to make it managable
13:23	stain	I keep those characters still in the filename at the end though (unlike git)
13:25	umpa	stain: danneu: what exactly are you guys talking about?
13:26	stain	18:00 < danneu> I run an active forum where I render Markdown posts to HTML and cache them in resources/cache/posts/<post-id>.html. My forum now has 1,172,002 posts. What are the implications of having so many files in an Ubuntu folder?
13:27	stain	danneu: is your io/resource call slow at the moment?
13:27	stain	as long as you are accessing one and one post it should be fine
13:27	stain	as you are hand-crafting the filename
13:27	stain	not sure why you are doing it through the classpath though
13:27	stain	you might have URLClassLoader a bit overworked
13:28	stain	why not just do it as files? I mean you have to write to those files anyway?
13:28	stain	(or is this bundled inside a WAR or something?)
13:30	danneu	stain: i didnt really have a rhyme or reason for going through io/resource. and it's not even deployed as a jar, just run with lein-ring.
13:31	danneu	i'm going to recreate my server locally in virtualbox to see if it's slow
13:34	arrdem	(inc amalloy) ;; eclipse suggestion from yesterday
13:34	lazybot	⇒ 124
13:35	danneu	stain: what do you mean 'just do it as files'?
13:36	gfredericks	(inc amalloy) ; hangin out here all the time
13:36	lazybot	⇒ 125
13:38	justin_smith	(inc amalloy) ; all the cool kids are doing it
13:38	lazybot	⇒ 126
13:53	TimMc	&(let [Long String] (instance? Long "abc"))
13:53	lazybot	⇒ false
13:54	TimMc	,(let [Long String] (instance? Long "abc"))
13:54	clojurebot	true
13:54	TimMc	niiice, glad that got fixed
13:54	TimMc	(CLJ-1171)
14:04	Glenjamin	,clojure-version
14:04	clojurebot	{:major 1, :minor 6, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil}
14:04	Glenjamin	&clojure-version
14:04	lazybot	⇒ {:major 1, :minor 4, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil}
14:05	Glenjamin	does that mean the LHS of instance? cannot be a variable?
14:08	amalloy	Glenjamin: uhhhhh, he just demonstrated that it can
14:08	Glenjamin	oh, duh
14:08	Glenjamin	i saw "abc"
14:08	Glenjamin	and read that as "should be a Long"
14:09	Glenjamin	then got confused when i checked the versions
14:09	amalloy	three letters is pretty long
14:09	Jaood	(dec amalloy)
14:09	lazybot	⇒ 125
14:09	Jaood	for recommending eclipse to amalloy
14:09	amalloy	amalloy: never use eclipse
14:09	Jaood	to arrdem :P
14:10	Jaood	(inc amalloy)
14:10	lazybot	⇒ 126
14:10	TimMc	Glenjamin: If you have a lexical shadowing a class, instance?'s inlining would treat it as a literal class name.
14:10	Jaood	for recommending eclipse to amalloy
14:10	dbasch	there are always cases for using eclipse
14:10	Glenjamin	TimMc: yeah, makes sense now - i just read the conditionals the wrong way around
14:10	amalloy	dbasch: it's okay. i know to ignore advice from tricksters like amalloy
14:10	TimMc	dbasch: It's great for browsing random Java projects.
14:10	justin_smith	dbasch: "I sure do have a lot of free ram on this computer, whatever shall I do to use it up?"
14:11	arrdem	elipse solves my primary frustration with Compiler.java, being my inability to visualize the class higherarchy let alone navigate it unaided
14:11	dbasch	justin_smith: “I work at the Eclipse foundation and I don’t want to get fired for being a traitor to the cause”
14:11	amalloy	justin_smith: for when firefox isn't an option?
14:11	justin_smith	heh
14:11	arrdem	16GB, 1.2 in use
14:12	Jaood	I though IDEA was the sane recommendation when users have a choice
14:13	amalloy	i'm sure intellij, idea, whatever it is, is fine
14:13	dbasch	Jaood: IDEA was the last IDE that I used, when I had to code in Scala
14:13	dbasch	I cannot imagine Scala without an IDE
14:14	agarman	IDEA isn't at all as impressive now as it was in 2008-2010
14:14	dbasch	amalloy: it’s totally fine, although it feels like you’re staring at the cockpit of a 747 in terms of controls
14:15	amalloy	dbasch: tried eclipse?
14:15	dbasch	amalloy: yes but not in the past decade
14:15	agarman	if you're not using UML & refactoring (neither of which are useful in Scala or Clojure) IDEA isn't better than Eclipse
14:15	dbasch	agarman: refactoring is useful in Scala
14:15	amalloy	it's got a lot of buttons too, i guess is all i was going to say
14:16	amalloy	it's not as obviously-dominant now as it was when i first tried it in...2003? 2004? but it's still very good for java
14:16	agarman	dbasch: The Scala IDE for Eclipse is better than what IDEA has for Scala
14:16	dbasch	agarman: I’ll try it the next time I use Scala, which I hope is never
14:17	noncom\|2	i used to use scala and then switched to clojure
14:17	agarman	dbasch: I hope to never have to do extensive Scala again... 4 years in hell was long enough for me!
14:17	noncom\|2	i am happy now
14:17	dbasch	but everyone in my old team that did Java was very happy with Eclipse
14:17	noncom\|2	(almost)
14:17	amalloy	dbasch will next use scala in Option[Years] time
14:17	noncom\|2	scala eclipse ide is the official one, that's what it is good
14:18	dbasch	amalloy: where Years is Long or null
14:18	noncom\|2	Long.MAX_VALUE
14:18	amalloy	ah, good old null
14:19	noncom\|2	nil
14:19	arrdem	None
14:19	amalloy	a cornerstone of typesafe programming
14:19	dbasch	yeah, I almost typed nil
14:19	noncom\|2	,((symbol (name :.noSuchMethod)) (Thread.))
14:19	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: no threads please>
14:20	dbasch	arrdem: yeah, hopefully that Option will return None
14:20	noncom\|2	,((symbol (name :.noSuchMethod)) (ArrayList.))
14:20	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unable to resolve classname: ArrayList, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:20	noncom\|2	,((symbol (name :.noSuchMethod)) (java.util.ArrayList.))
14:20	clojurebot	nil
14:20	noncom\|2	see? ^^
14:20	amalloy	dbasch: that was the joke i was hoping to offer, but i like your Long-or-null better
14:20	noncom\|2	why?
14:20	clojurebot	why is the ram gone
14:21	noncom\|2	why it happens so?\
14:21	amalloy	noncom\|2: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12281631/what-do-clojure-symbols-do-when-used-as-functions
14:21	arrdem	because we use a language that doesn't believe in update in place, next!
14:21	dbasch	one day I made the mistake of trying to run an open-source project from Twitter written in Scala
14:22	amalloy	i'm having "fun" trying to use kafka
14:22	dbasch	oh, they retired it now https://github.com/twitter/snowflake/
14:22	noncom\|2	amalloy: is there a way to dynamically generaet a java class interop method to call?
14:22	ystael	dbasch: which part was the mistake? "open-source", "twitter", "scala", or "run"?
14:22	dbasch	amalloy: Kafka is arguably the best OS project released by my former employer
14:23	dbasch	ystael: open-source and Twitter, probably
14:23	amalloy	dbasch: linkedin, presumably, not apache?
14:23	justin_smith	noncom\|2: what do you need to generate?
14:23	dbasch	amalloy: yes, LinkedIn
14:23	dbasch	amalloy: Voldemort is pretty good too
14:23	noncom\|2	a java class has many methods, i want to create a method call from a :keyword that someone passes to my func
14:23	amalloy	noncom\|2: in general if you're trying to do that you've already made a mistake
14:24	noncom\|2	what would you propose?
14:24	dbasch	noncom\|2: what’s the broader picture?
14:24	amalloy	just calling methods on the object directly. what is the point of an intermediary who converts :size to .size?
14:25	amalloy	but, yes, reconsidering the broader picture will probably lead you to a better answer than my random instincts
14:26	noncom\|2	i want to encapsulate the work with the object because i do not want to make the user to import the class
14:27	noncom\|2	i want to create a wrapper for this class: http://libgdx.badlogicgames.com/nightlies/docs/api/com/badlogic/gdx/graphics/g3d/utils/MeshBuilder.html
14:28	dbasch	noncom\|2: but if the user is sending you things like :capsule or :circle or :box you’re not really encapsulating anything
14:28	amalloy	(inc dbasch)
14:28	lazybot	⇒ 6
14:28	noncom\|2	well, maybe i will later have a map with {:circle 10 10 10 10 ...]
14:28	noncom\|2	sorry, i meant }
14:29	noncom\|2	maybe i want to build something upon it
14:29	noncom\|2	if the methods were clojrue functions that would be easy
14:29	noncom\|2	but them java methods are different
14:29	dbasch	noncom\|2: I would start by thinking about the api I want to present to the user, and then think about a clean way to do that
14:30	dbasch	if you’re going to simply put sugar around the java api, might as well just let them use the java api
14:30	noncom\|2	ummm.. the user just writes or generates a set of declarative instructions, just as i have said above
14:30	noncom\|2	yeah, i agree with you
14:31	noncom\|2	but sometimes sugar means much too. and this is not only sugar, this will help to write cleaner drawing routines
14:31	dbasch	noncom\|2: do you need to expose the entire api, or just a small subset?
14:31	noncom\|2	ideally all api. overtime this will be required anyway..
14:31	noncom\|2	currently i am leaning towards a condp :)
14:32	dbasch	noncom\|2: if you’re adding methods that do things that the api doesn’t, then I would write those in idiomatic clojure
14:32	dbasch	noncom\|2: for the rest, I’d just give the user the option to go down to java, like the rest of clojure does
14:33	noncom\|2	ummm, you see, these sequences of calls like [:circle 20 20 20 20] will be generated from sort of data that resembles a bytecode or DNA
14:33	noncom\|2	so that :circle is a building block as well as 20
14:33	noncom\|2	homoiconicity
14:34	noncom\|2	i just need an automata there
14:34	noncom\|2	which will pick the right method by the keyword
14:34	noncom\|2	so condp is the simplest
14:35	AeroNotix	A colleague wants to use an IDE for Clojure, I heard there was some good integration between some IDE and a plugin
14:35	AeroNotix	anyone know?
14:35	noncom\|2	eclipse + ccw
14:35	AeroNotix	ccw?
14:35	noncom\|2	or emacs
14:35	Jaood	AeroNotix: cursive
14:35	dbasch	noncom\|2: why is it less work to generate those sequences than to generate the actual clojure code that calls the java api?
14:35	clojurebot	ccw is http://code.google.com/p/counterclockwise/
14:35	AeroNotix	noncom\|2: he's not an emacs user
14:35	cbp	,1
14:35	clojurebot	1
14:36	noncom\|2	dbasch: the sequences will be generated automatically, from sound or eeg
14:36	AeroNotix	thanks noncom\|2
14:36	noncom\|2	(this is a very simplifies explanation)
14:36	cbp	I tried ccw to teach a coworker a few months ago and it was very underwhelming
14:36	systemfault	Cursive or lighttable :P
14:37	systemfault	Anything touching eclipse sucks (my opinion)
14:37	amalloy	systemfault: that's a sucky opinion (objectively)
14:37	dbasch	noncom\|2: I’m out of ideas :)
14:38	systemfault	amalloy: Could very well be. But the day I switched to IntelliJ, I had no more problem with bad third-party plugins.
15:07	dagda1	I have this query which is running pig slow in production. Can anyone suggest any pointer as to how I might improve it? http://sqlfiddle.com/#!12/33cd7/20
15:10	amalloy	you seem to have accidentally posted a sql optimization question to #clojure, dagda1
15:10	dagda1	haha
15:10	dagda1	amalloy: please feel free to answer in clojure :)
15:19	danneu	Do jvm opts passed via command line override :jvm-opts in project.clj?
15:19	technomancy	danneu: how do you pass jvm opts via the command line?
15:24	danneu	technomancy: when you compile an uberjar, are :jvm-opts 'baked in' to the jar as default opts when you `java -jar app.jar`?
15:24	amalloy	danneu: no, you can't do that. you're the one typing java, so you get to pass the jvm opts
15:25	technomancy	yeah, what he said
15:25	danneu	oh, i see. so :jvm-opts is just used by `lein` commands
15:37	cbp	does anyone have a fn handy to walk the body of a macro, find an expression and do a kind of update-in?
15:39	sveri	Hi, I am reading in a file with "with-open" with this contents: key: value\n key2: value2... and want to convert it to a map {key value key2 value}. I made it so far that I can convert each line to one single map: http://pastebin.com/698gRiu5 But I have trouble reducing it into one single map, can someone help me please?
15:41	allenj12	so does hiccup and enlive replace html completely/ or atleast mostly?
15:44	justin_smith	allenj12: well they produce and interpret html. Whether you still use html directly probably depends on the skillset of the people you collaborate with.
15:45	justin_smith	allenj12: for example I did not use either very much when working on web stuff, because I worked with frontend developers who did not know clojure at all
15:45	allenj12	justin_smith: gotcha so if im doing this solo, would i need/be recommended to use any html?
15:46	justin_smith	allenj12: you would probably end up learning some html whether or not you meant to (much like I learned java despite myself by using clojure enough)
15:47	justin_smith	but I mean hiccup is html, it just has some tags embedded in it
15:47	justin_smith	and those tags produce more html...
15:47	allenj12	justin_smith: yea i know that i was just wondering if there was any real point in making any html files directly
15:47	dbasch	sveri: you shouldn’t be using doseq. What does your file look like?
15:48	dbasch	sveri: is it “colon-separated values” ?
15:50	justin_smith	sveri: would lines have the same keys, or would a key be unique across all lines?
15:50	sveri	dbasch: yea, I just found out reduce is better and am fiddling with it :D
15:50	sveri	dbasch: justin_smith I am not sure how it will look exactly, so I am taking a split function here
15:53	Jarda	has anyone created a sqlkorma store for clauth?
15:55	justin_smith	,(reduce (fn [mp line] (reduce (fn [m [k v]] (assoc m k v)) mp (partition 2 (clojure.string/split line #":")))) {} ["a:0:b:1" "c:2:d:3"]) ; sveri - maybe soemthing like this?
15:55	clojurebot	{"d" "3", "c" "2", "b" "1", "a" "0"}
15:56	justin_smith	sveri: but if multiple lines may have the same keys, you probably want to do an something liek update-in m [k] (fnil conj []) v or however that is done
15:57	dbasch	sveri: how about https://www.refheap.com/86526
15:57	dbasch	(assumes no repeated keys)
15:58	justin_smith	,(reduce (fn [mp line] (reduce (fn [m [k v]] (update-in m [k] (fnil conj []) v)) mp (partition 2 (clojure.string/split line #":")))) {} ["a:0:b:1:c:hello" "c:2:d:3"])
15:58	clojurebot	{"d" ["3"], "c" ["hello" "2"], "b" ["1"], "a" ["0"]}
15:58	justin_smith	works with repeated keys
15:59	sveri	justin_smith: dbasch thats both awesome solutions :-) I wonder which day will be the day my head starts to think of them himself :D
15:59	justin_smith	sveri: work from the inside out, and always visualize the shape of the data - eventually it is like legos
16:00	dbasch	sveri: one step at a time :) first, remember that doseq returns nothing, so you don’t want to use it if you’re trying to transform one thing into another
16:00	justin_smith	sveri though I tend to go overly generic and just reach for my favorite building blocks - so my solution will work but not be the most concise / elegant / clear
16:00	dbasch	doseq is for side effects, e.g. printing stuff to stdout
16:01	sveri	yea
16:01	dbasch	you have a line-seq, and you want to convert it into another structure via application of functional transformations
16:01	sveri	I get that, understanding the difference between doseq and reduce is the easiest part :D
16:01	justin_smith	someone should really make a clojure flavored pharmaceutical commercial spoof (side effects may include the mutation of values in another thread or printing to stdout, ask your tech director if clojure is right for you)
16:02	dbasch	my thinking was: first, split every line into two pairs, then convert those pairs into a map where each pair is a mapping
16:03	dbasch	sorry, split every line into a pair
16:03	justin_smith	dbasch: oh, was it really one pair for a line? that would have been easier than my overgenerlization then
16:03	dbasch	(inc justin_smith )
16:03	lazybot	⇒ 2
16:04	justin_smith	is inc sensitive to paren placement or something?
16:04	justin_smith	$karma justin_smith
16:04	lazybot	justin_smith has karma 47.
16:04	dbasch	(inc justin_smith)
16:04	lazybot	⇒ 48
16:05	dbasch	lazybot’s parsing clearly is
16:05	dbasch	(inc )
16:05	dbasch	(inc )
16:05	lazybot	⇒ 1
16:05	dbasch	haha
16:05	justin_smith	(inc significant white space )
16:05	lazybot	⇒ 1
16:05	allenj12	domina hasnt seem to be updated recently, why is that?
16:06	justin_smith	$karma significant white space
16:06	lazybot	significant has karma 0.
16:06	dbasch	$karma
16:06	dbasch	$karma
16:06	justin_smith	dbasch: your client is not sending trailing white space
16:06	dbasch	$karma ;
16:06	lazybot	; has karma 0.
16:06	justin_smith	$karma
16:07	dbasch	$karma ;
16:07	lazybot	has karma 0.
16:07	dbasch	$karma ;
16:07	lazybot	has karma 0.
16:07	justin_smith	odd
16:07	dbasch	justin_smith: the convert-line-to-map-entry function implied that it was one pair per line
16:08	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
16:08	justin_smith	dbasch: yeah, sometimes I code faster than I read
16:09	dbasch	clojurebot: one day you’ll \|learn\| that not everything can be solved with the Irish language.
16:09	clojurebot	Ok.
16:18	TimMc	justin_smith: I'll do the voice if someone else wants to provide a good mic. :-P
16:20	justin_smith	heh
16:41	sveri	Hm, I have generated a template with enlives deftemplate function, now I would like to store that in a html file on disk, but deftemplate returns a persistentvector, anyone knows if there is a method to convert it? Or do I have to do it by hand?
16:43	sveri	nevermind, doseq over the vetcor and writing the result just does the trick
16:50	stephenjudkins	what are good OSS clojure projects to read?
16:52	technomancy	maybe syme if you want a small web app
16:53	justin_smith	stephenjudkins: flatland/useful is pretty great
16:54	nDuff	stephenjudkins, ...if you're interested in clojurescript with core.async, I found the dots game implementation by Bruce Hauman to be a good one -- thorough walkthrough of the code and the process of refactoring it in his blog.
16:56	hiredman	https://github.com/liebke/analemma is nice, small, was created as an example of using clojure, does lots of datastructure fiddling, and you get to draw pictures
16:56	hiredman	(but it hasn't been touched in 3 years)
16:57	justin_smith	analemma is pretty cool, yeah
16:57	justin_smith	and very easy to use
16:58	justin_smith	(it even makes animated svg)
16:58	hiredman	oh, neat, I haven't seen the animated bits
16:59	justin_smith	http://liebke.github.io/analemma/ animations here
17:00	stephenjudkins	thanks for the links, all
17:05	cbp	/
17:16	gfredericks	huh. so having a "src/.clj" apparently isn't working
17:17	justin_smith	src/..clj maybe?
17:18	hiredman	the arc of history is long but it bends toward justice
17:18	gfredericks	I guess it's worth a try
17:18	justin_smith	even better would be if you namespace was my...something.other such that the containing directory would have to be parallel with its parent
17:18	gfredericks	nope ..clj doesn't work either
17:19	gfredericks	I'm just going to have to use user.clj
17:27	technomancy	gfredericks: can you use load instead of require?
17:27	technomancy	not that it's a thing I'd recommend
17:34	gfredericks	technomancy: yeah that totes works; not sure how to do that as a library though
17:34	gfredericks	oh wait
17:34	gfredericks	hm
17:34	gfredericks	I'm not sure I attempted load correctly
17:35	amalloy	gfredericks: what tomfoolery are you up to here?
17:35	gfredericks	amalloy: trying to gain myself repl utils that work from everywhere but without being too evil
17:35	gfredericks	referring things everywhere is hard, so I settled on (ns .)
17:35	gfredericks	then I can use ./foo from everewhere
17:36	technomancy	the tommest of foolery
17:36	hiredman	is refering things everywhere actually hard?
17:37	gfredericks	hiredman: I think so
17:37	hiredman	can't you just alter the refer function to refer your code when it refers clojure.core?
17:37	technomancy	monstrous
17:37	gfredericks	hiredman: yeah there are techniques like that that definitely work, but changing EVERY namespace (including all lib namespaces) rather than just the ones I actually end up using is a lot scarier
17:38	technomancy	gfredericks: have you tried adding a cider hook for the change-namespace command there?
17:38	hiredman	gfredericks: maybe it should be custom nrepl middleware
17:38	gfredericks	technomancy: nope
17:38	hiredman	technomancy will tell you all about nrepl discover
17:39	gfredericks	hiredman: I was imagining that, but gtrak told me namespace changes are done by simply evaling (in-ns ...)
17:39	gfredericks	so that'd be weird to intercept
17:39	gfredericks	technomancy has told me about nrepl-discover every time I've brought this up, except for today
17:39	amalloy	gfredericks: you're attempting black magic, right? does "weird" matter?
17:39	hiredman	gfredericks: oh, but with custom middleware you can intercept (foo) and load gfredericks.utils and run (gfredericks.utils/foo) instead
17:39	gtrak	nrepl-discover is not 'mature' enough to make it into cider yet, heh, heh.
17:39	gfredericks	./ has the advantage of not being dependent on my tooling
17:40	hiredman	fah
17:40	gtrak	I'm pretty sure that just means 'not my code'.
17:40	hiredman	you are always dependent on tooling
17:40	gfredericks	hiredman: that only works if it's a top-level call
17:40	ludwig`	is it possible that component local state in om is entirely broken?
17:40	arrdem	gtrak: now there's damning with faint praise..
17:40	gfredericks	hiredman: yeah but I can easily end up running code in various contexts
17:42	{blake}	I thought there were :when bindings for let. (Not when-let, I know that's a thing.) My REPLs are disagreeing.
17:42	amalloy	{blake}: no, there aren't
17:42	gfredericks	hiredman: e.g., somebody in a web browser via session, or in a deployment with a raw clojure.main
17:42	gfredericks	s/somebody//
17:42	{blake}	amalloy, Dammit. I should've known you'd take their side.
17:42	arrdem	{blake}: for has :when
17:43	amalloy	arrdem: another entry in "weird things programmers say"
17:43	{blake}	arrdem, That's probably where I'm getting the idea from, thanks.
17:43	amalloy	{blake}: egamble has a macro that includes :when and various other nonsense in a let-binding
17:43	arrdem	amalloy: heh
17:43	amalloy	$google egamle let-else
17:43	lazybot	[guitar chords, guitar tabs and lyrics - chordie] http://www.chordie.com/song.php
17:43	amalloy	$google egamble let-else
17:43	lazybot	[egamble/let-else · GitHub] https://github.com/egamble/let-else
17:44	hiredman	gfredericks: session should really be using nrepl
17:45	{blake}	Ooh. Guitar tabs.
17:46	gfredericks	hiredman: agreed
17:46	{blake}	amalloy, Thanks.
17:49	Nikentic	Any tips on how to reslove function from a string?
17:50	arrdem	please don't, use a static dispatch table and resort to clojure.core/resolve if you know what you're doing.
17:50	TEttinger	Nikentic, yeah it uh can be a pain with namespaces
17:51	gfredericks	amalloy: I guess by weird I meant unreliable; sensitive to client changes, doesn't necessarily work across clients, etc
17:53	hiredman	gfredericks: so what would you put in such a bag of tricks?
17:54	gfredericks	hiredman: if you're asking what goes in the namespace: https://github.com/gfredericks/repl-utils/blob/master/src/com/gfredericks/repl.clj
17:54	gfredericks	the best one is the bg macro at the bottom
17:55	hiredman	huh
17:57	amalloy	gfredericks: canonizing a record seems like a dangerous plan
17:57	amalloy	in that it won't print as a record
17:58	gfredericks	amalloy: totes; I just added that today
17:58	gfredericks	amalloy: it's just for pretty-printing, so not too risky
17:59	amalloy	gfredericks: your hack could be to add all these functions to clojure.core
17:59	amalloy	then you wouldn't need to refer them
17:59	gfredericks	amalloy: yeah I've tried that
17:59	gfredericks	amalloy: you have to be careful about doing it before any other namespace boots up
17:59	gfredericks	and it still has the universality disadvantage, of modifying namespaces you'll never need to touch
18:00	amalloy	but it can't do anything bad to those namespaces
18:00	amalloy	just cause them to get a warning about overwriting a var
18:00	gfredericks	no but I'll get warnings from clojure.repl about dir already being defined and crap like that
18:02	hiredman	but, I mean, come on, how often do you really use dir?
18:02	gfredericks	a lot
18:03	technomancy	why not just use tab completion?
18:03	gfredericks	autocomplete in cider is super janky and I want to turn it off
18:03	technomancy	seriously, afaik everything in clojure.repl is obsoleted by cider
18:03	amalloy	technomancy: apropos
18:03	technomancy	not auto-complete, just regular completion
18:03	gfredericks	technomancy: I don't think that really applies
18:04	gfredericks	if I don't know the name of a function
18:04	technomancy	amalloy: huh... I didn't realize that got moved to clojure.repl, but touche
18:04	gfredericks	just what namespace it is in
18:04	technomancy	gfredericks: you can still use tab completion
18:04	technomancy	alias/ TAB
18:04	gfredericks	on what basis does it figure that out?
18:04	gfredericks	oh crap that works
18:05	gfredericks	how does that work
18:05	technomancy	it's the same algorithm with "" as the input
18:05	amalloy	technomancy: not that i actually use apropos, or anything in clojure.repl. but whenever i say "just use emacs, bro" someone complains about apropos
18:05	amalloy	it's fun to be on the other side for a change
18:05	technomancy	heh
18:06	technomancy	time to add apropos it to cider I guess
18:06	gfredericks	just added debug-repl break! and unbreak! as well
18:06	amalloy	most of my programs could use an unbreak!
18:06	gfredericks	:P
18:06	technomancy	debug-repl really needs cider support
18:06	technomancy	err
18:07	technomancy	nrepl-discover support I mean =D
18:07	amalloy	so, i left (future (while true (swap! a inc))) running for about 20 hours. any guesses how high it's gotten?
18:07	gfredericks	you're talking about my debug-repl or some other identically named project?
18:07	technomancy	gfredericks: talking about the original debug-repl
18:07	arrdem	amalloy: I'm sure it hasn't overflowed ;P
18:07	gfredericks	alex-and-georges?
18:07	amalloy	oh, i actually used inc'
18:07	amalloy	so it can't
18:07	technomancy	gfredericks: yeah
18:07	gfredericks	technomancy: I rewrote that as nrepl middleware
18:08	technomancy	oh right
18:08	technomancy	anyway, not being able to M-x that and bind it to an emacs binding is sadface
18:08	gfredericks	I was trying to factor out an nrepl-mux functionality when I ran into nrepl boogs
18:09	gfredericks	someday gtrak will just fix them for me
18:09	amalloy	okay well you all failed to guess anything, so [spoiler]: 2851591830804
18:09	gfredericks	amalloy: also brazil just won 3-1
18:09	gfredericks	that's another way of counting things
18:10	technomancy	gfredericks: man, it feels kinda nice not to be the person referenced in that sentiment
18:10	gtrak	gfredericks: what did I do this time?
18:10	arrdem	aaaah I need to start watching the cup
18:10	technomancy	arrdem: a watched cup never boils
18:10	gfredericks	gtrak: declare your desire to git into the nrepl bug
18:10	gtrak	haha
18:10	amalloy	gfredericks: you just angered hordes of people who are excited enough about football to watch the game, but not so excited that they mind tivoing it
18:10	gtrak	yea, I just wanted CLJS to work, look what happened
18:10	gfredericks	technomancy: man thank goodness gtrak wrote leiningen what would we do without him
18:11	gtrak	lol wut.
18:11	gfredericks	amalloy: those hordes of people aren't part of my mental model of the world
18:11	amalloy	it turns out they're pretty laid back anyway
18:12	gfredericks	hah
18:13	brehaut	huh apparently sportsball is on in my office and i hadnt even noticed
18:13	arrdem	"sportsball"
18:13	arrdem	Dota is the only real sport besides CouterStrike amirite? :P
18:13	devn	Anyone want to hear a cool rant about LSD and Clojure? Here's the link...
18:13	devn	;)
18:14	arrdem	devn: -_-
18:14	arrdem	devn: where's that lsd and systems programming article..
18:14	technomancy	best sportsball: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRST_Robotics_Competition
18:14	devn	List comprehensions dude. So groovy.
18:14	arrdem	$google lsd unix systems programming
18:14	lazybot	[Famous quotations about the Unix operating system] http://www.linfo.org/q_unix.html
18:14	gtrak	I remember he came on the list initially and was like, 'hi guys, I'm going to do some cool things later'
18:15	technomancy	gtrak: whom?
18:15	devn	gtrak: it's cool. he's not being a jerk about it
18:15	gtrak	the LSD Clojure blog post.
18:15	allenj12	justin_smith: hey if i use hiccup for everyithng, does that mean its being re loaded every time a user accesses a page? or does it cache it?
18:15	gtrak	yea, he seems nice, it's just not good manners, maybe inadvertently.
18:16	devn	i mean, it could make for an interesting discussion
18:16	devn	but not on a huge public ML
18:16	justin_smith	allenj12: I forget if / how much / hiccup caches. you could put a memoize around your hiccup function
18:16	justin_smith	or put varnish in front of your server with smart parameters on it
18:16	devn	"This one time..." :X
18:16	gtrak	honestly I hoped there would be more talk about neurochemical aspects of LSD and Clojure.
18:16	allenj12	justin_smith: varnish?
18:16	justin_smith	varnish is a universal caching layer you put in front of a web server
18:16	devn	gtrak: i think the "ugh, don't post this here" probably stopped any interesting conversation from happening
18:17	hiredman	I dunno that hiccup caches anything, but it does try to generate as much html at macro expansion time as it can
18:17	justin_smith	most clojure web servers should have at least nginx in front in production, and may benefit from having varnish in front too
18:17	devn	gtrak: there are some pretty interesting LSD programming experience reports i read a long while ago
18:17	amalloy	yeah, exactly what hiredman said. no caching, but clever pre-generation
18:18	gtrak	devn: I bet if you posted a thoughtful response it would blow over, I don't have much to say.
18:18	gtrak	also I'm curious :-)
18:19	allenj12	justin_smith: hmm kk ill look more into that once im done with this, thanks dude
18:19	philandstuff	am I missing something or is there a reason that butlast isn't lazy?
18:19	devn	gtrak: i suppose this channel is logged and public
18:19	allenj12	justin_smith: ill also try to find out more about hiccup and letya know if i fond anything
18:19	devn	but again, im not so hot on chatting LSD in a public ML
18:19	gtrak	haha
18:20	arrdem	^^ yeah.... why would you think this is a good idea...
18:20	amalloy	philandstuff: i'm not aware of any good reason; you can use (drop-last coll 1) if you want
18:20	justin_smith	"we would consider for this position, but according to the Internet you used LSD once"
18:20	devn	"HI DEVIN I WORK WITH A LARGE BAY AREA TECH COMPANY AND WE FOUND YOUR GITHUB PROFILE. IT ALSO LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE INTERESTED IN LSD. YOU MIGHT BE A PERFECT FIT. HAVE TIME TO CHAT ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITY?"
18:20	arrdem	haha
18:20	gtrak	so, what we're saying is thoughtful responses are less likely than usual.
18:20	justin_smith	lol
18:21	justin_smith	(inc devn)
18:21	lazybot	⇒ 19
18:21	devn	gtrak: lol i just think it's kind of a weird forum for it
18:22	devn	can you imagine recruiters reaching out based on a healthy interest in psychedelics?
18:22	philandstuff	amalloy: oh awesome, thanks :)
18:23	philandstuff	(inc amalloy)
18:23	lazybot	⇒ 127
18:23	devn	i am not interested in those kinds of things /these/ days, but i wonder what kind of company you'd wind up with if you hired a bunch of "experienced" engineers
18:23	devn	if you get what im layin' down
18:24	technomancy	clojurebot: are you experienced?
18:24	clojurebot	Excuse me?
18:24	philandstuff	amalloy: and drop-last defaults n to 1, so I can just do (drop-last coll)
18:24	arrdem	heh
18:24	philandstuff	,(drop-last [1 2 3])
18:24	devn	haha technomancy
18:24	clojurebot	(1 2)
18:24	arrdem	devn: well if they're youngish you get dogecoin, reddit and pineapples on everything.
18:24	cbp`	clojurebot was offended
18:25	technomancy	sorry clojurebot; I didn't mean to pry
18:25	gtrak	devn: sounds 'innovative'
18:25	devn	yeah, a real "heady" crew
18:26	justin_smith	or just your typical Portland startup
18:26	shaun	hi, can someone explain what "pending state" means in Om, in the context of the `get-state` function? https://github.com/swannodette/om/wiki/Documentation#get-state
18:27	umpa	is this an optimal loop recur?
18:28	umpa	,(defn looper [x y] (loop [x1 x, y1 y] (if (< x1 5) (let [x1 x1](println x1) (recur (inc x1) y1)))))
18:28	clojurebot	#'sandbox/looper
18:28	umpa	,(looper 1 1)
18:28	clojurebot	1\n2\n3\n4\n
18:29	Bronsa	umpa: that let is useless and you never use y1
18:29	gtrak	umpa: you don't need to loop either, recur will hit the top of the fn.
18:29	umpa	Bronsa: how to do without let ?
18:30	justin_smith	umpa: the recur creates a new binding
18:30	justin_smith	you don't need let for that
18:30	Bronsa	umpa: (defn looper [x y] (when (< x 5) (println x) (recur (inc x) y)))
18:30	Bronsa	y is still useless though
18:31	justin_smith	Bronsa: I assumed it is a simplification of some code where y did something
18:31	Bronsa	justin_smith: you're probably right
18:31	umpa	justin_smith: is correct
18:45	shaun	Nevermind about the Om question, pending state is explained by the distinction between `get-state` and `get-render-state`
18:47	amalloy	incidentally, has anyone ever looked at the implementation of drop-last? it's a pretty neat way to do it, i've always thought: it's not immediately obvious how to remove the last N items of a collection while being as lazy as possible
18:49	Bronsa	amalloy: yeah I've always thought drop-last was really cool
18:50	justin_smith	amalloy: oh wow, that is really cool
18:51	amalloy	oh, interesting. looked at one of the commits that affected drop-last, and apparently at the time (if x y z) was a macro that just expanded to (if* x y z) for some reason
18:52	hiredman	amalloy: when nil punning went away
18:52	hiredman	if become a macro that expanded to if*, and if would check for nil punning and warn
18:52	amalloy	hah, neat
18:52	hiredman	clojure: days of future past
18:55	amalloy	hiredman: in this context by nil punning you mean that empty seqs used to be falsey, right?
18:59	cbp`	(inc drop-last)
18:59	lazybot	⇒ 1
19:00	Bronsa	I wonder if there's a way to write drop-last without realizing the whole seq
19:01	justin_smith	Bronsa: well, drop-last is already lazy and you can't know where the end is until you hit it, right?
19:01	Bronsa	it would require a lazyseq type that was also counted
19:01	Bronsa	which sounds counterintuitive
19:02	justin_smith	but there are many cases where the seq should be lazy, but you know the max length at creation time
19:02	justin_smith	ie. when lazy-seq is abstracting over map on an expensive calculation - you know the size of the input, but don't want all the results unless you need them
19:03	justin_smith	s/know/may know
19:03	Bronsa	right
19:03	Bronsa	the issue there is that some lazy functions would be able to preserve this info while others wouldn't, e.g. map vs filter
19:04	justin_smith	but in that case you still could know an upper bound
19:04	brehaut	Bronsa: i think that haskell achieves something like what you are talking about with its rewrite rules
19:04	Bronsa	that would be pretty useless justin_smith
19:05	Bronsa	justin_smith: for a drop-last, at least
19:06	justin_smith	right, but I can think of other situations where hypothetically knowing an upper bound would be useful
19:08	dbasch	justin_smith: more obvious case: (range some_big_number)
19:09	amalloy	counted lazy seqs are pretty hard to work with, but a counted reducer is somewhat viable
19:10	amalloy	eg, in http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-993 i include Counted for my Range reducer
19:10	justin_smith	dbasch: sure, but we often use lazy operators on vectors or even maps via seq
19:11	dbasch	justin_smith: you’re right. A real-life case that comes to mind is a vector of imap envelopes for which you want to get the contents lazily
19:15	gfredericks	should I use auto-complete-mode in the repl buffer?
19:18	cbp	when I did that it would randomly create massive amounts of new lines which was pretty annoying
19:18	cbp	I've been told it's because of popup.el
19:18	cbp	company mode works fine though
19:21	mdeboard	hi, Can anyone recommend a good lightweight testing library? I'm modeling a board game and I'm getting to the point where there's too much code for me to test everything by hand :P
19:21	gfredericks	clojure.test is the lightweightiest
19:21	mdeboard	I used midje a couple years ago with a cascalog thing but idk if that's still a good choice
19:21	amalloy	midje has never been lightweight
19:22	gfredericks	"midge is a lightweight set of maven coordinates to locate a heavyweight testing library"
19:22	mdeboard	gfredericks: Is tehre a caveat there or?
19:22	mdeboard	(wrt clojure.test)
19:22	gfredericks	mdeboard: it's missing a few things that feel obvious, but they're not major; it's simple enough that you can pretty well understand what it's doing
19:23	justin_smith	clojure.test is good. it is simple.
19:23	justin_smith	gfredericks: what occurs to you as missing from clojure.test?
19:23	mdeboard	Someone linked http://jayfields.com/expectations/ the other day
19:24	gfredericks	justin_smith: docstrings on tests
19:24	gfredericks	the order of args to is feels pretty backwards
19:24	dbasch	if I’d written that library, I would have called it Inquisition
19:25	mdeboard	Every time I see "Expectations" i think of old SNL skit, "Lowered Expectations"
19:25	justin_smith	gfredericks: that is what clojure.test/testing is for
19:25	gfredericks	fixtures can be a little weird
19:25	gfredericks	justin_smith: extra nesting just to add the docstring?
19:26	justin_smith	I like it because it nests and allows multiple descriptions in one test
19:26	amalloy	&(macroexpand '(clojure.test/are [x y] (let [y (+ x y)] (= y x)) 0 0))
19:26	lazybot	⇒ (do (clojure.test/is (let [0 (+ 0 0)] (= 0 0))))
19:26	justin_smith	it's more than a docstring, it is also part of what prints on failure
19:27	gfredericks	justin_smith: yeah that's what I mean by docstring
19:28	hiredman	amalloy: there used to be no such thing as an empty seq, there was just nil
19:28	hiredman	there was no lazy-seq macro, there was this lazy-cons thing
19:29	hiredman	subtlety different
19:37	mdeboard	No let-binding with deftest ?
19:39	justin_smith	mdeboard: huh? I use let in deftest all the time
19:39	mdeboard	I see
19:40	justin_smith	another thing I do that may be more counterintuitive, is make a defn that calls test/is and run it inside a deftest
19:40	mdeboard	one o' them watchacall pebcak errors on my part
19:40	justin_smith	ahh
19:43	allenj12	can someone tell me whats going on here? (defmacro defpage [page-name & body] '(def page-name (memoize (fn [] (html5 ~@body))))) ;; body is not being recognized, why?
19:43	allenj12	woops
19:43	allenj12	i ment here ?
19:43	allenj12	https://www.refheap.com/86533
19:43	allenj12	yea
19:44	justin_smith	do you want ` instead of ' ?
19:45	dbasch	you probably want to unquote page-name as well
19:45	justin_smith	also, if you leave [] out, then the caller of defpage can decide if and what arguments should be provided for a given page
19:45	allenj12	dbasch: i did but then it complains that page-name is not a symbol
19:46	mdeboard	I think clojure.test is plenty good for my needs atm
19:46	justin_smith	~'page-name
19:46	clojurebot	Huh?
19:46	justin_smith	or maybe '~page-name
19:46	justin_smith	I forget now
19:46	allenj12	why would you quote it just to unquote it
19:47	Bronsa	`~'a
19:47	Bronsa	,`~'a
19:47	clojurebot	a
19:47	Bronsa	,`a
19:47	clojurebot	sandbox/a
19:47	dbasch	allenj12: actually, why is that even a macro?
19:47	justin_smith	because it is an argument, but it is an argument used as a symbol, not evaluated for avalue
19:47	justin_smith	because he wants to make a def for a certain symbol
19:47	Bronsa	justin_smith: with def actually there's no need for ~'
19:47	Bronsa	,ns
19:47	clojurebot	#<Namespace sandbox>
19:48	Bronsa	,(def sandbox/a 1)
19:48	clojurebot	#'sandbox/a
19:49	allenj12	so i tried '~page-name ~'page-name as well and same problem
19:50	allenj12	page-name not a symbol for def
19:50	justin_smith	oh yeah, ~page-name actually works
19:51	justin_smith	my bad
19:51	dbasch	allenj12: btw, what is body? can you give a usage example?
19:51	justin_smith	(defmacro defpage [page-name & body] `(def ~page-name (memoize (fn [] (html5 ~@body)))))
19:52	allenj12	its hicuup code
19:52	justin_smith	dbasch: idiomatically, it would be the body of a function, or some other (do ...)
19:52	allenj12	i know the problems
19:53	allenj12	I used ' not ` im a dumbass
19:53	allenj12	lol
19:55	dbasch	with ` and ~page-name it works fine for me
19:56	allenj12	dbasch: yea as i said before i accidentally used '
19:57	allenj12	dbasch: i feel dumb
19:57	dbasch	allenj12: that’s what macroexpand-1 is for :)
19:57	dbasch	it tells you before other people tell you :P
19:57	justin_smith	allenj12: an idea, you could turn the args list into [name args & body] and replace the (fn [] ...) with (fn ~args ...) then an individual defpage could decide what arg list to take
19:58	allenj12	justin_smith: good idea, thanks? btw memoizing like that should work right?
19:58	justin_smith	in case you eventually want dynamic content of any sort
19:58	justin_smith	yeah, memoize makes a map from args to results
19:59	justin_smith	so a new arg means looking up a different result
19:59	justin_smith	just don't expect memoize to work with things that randomize their output or depend on things that are not args
20:00	justin_smith	so if you have anything like social activity or whatever that will vary with page loads, they should come in as args for memoize to work properly
20:00	allenj12	justin_smith: yea alright thanks! if i cant run this all the way through all try varnish like you mentioned
20:02	johnwalker	justin_smith: ordered my copy of jcip :)
20:02	allenj12	justin_smith: actually what if some of the pages i write are static, would i still benefit from memoize
20:04	justin_smith	absolutely
20:04	justin_smith	johnwalker: awesome
20:04	justin_smith	allenj12: even more so, since that way it only needs to generate once, and there is only one value in the table to look up
20:07	allenj12	justin_smith: awsome
20:14	nkozo	how do you run "lein test" only for clojure test in a project (in this case, Prismatic Schema) that also compiles to clojurescript (using cljx)
20:15	justin_smith	nkozo: you can use test selector metadata on your test definitions, and use lein test :foo to run only tests with metadata foo
20:15	justin_smith	nkozo: oh, this is someone else's codebase? hopefully they have defined selectors, or you could add them I guess
20:16	nkozo	mm, I don't see any selector, the tests are defined in a .cljx file
20:27	cpetzold	nkozo: so you want to run the clj tests and not the cljs ones?
20:27	nkozo	cpetzold: exactly
20:27	cpetzold	you can temporarily comment out this line: https://github.com/Prismatic/schema/blob/master/project.clj#L17
20:28	nkozo	cpetzold: oh, I see, thanks!
20:28	cpetzold	np :)
20:28	cpetzold	out of curiosity though, why don’t you want to run the cljs tests?
20:29	justin_smith	probably because of making changes to clj and not cljs and cljs takes a long time to run?
20:29	justin_smith	just a guess
20:30	nkozo	yes, an because I'm making some changes in the clj version temporary incompatible with the cljs one
20:32	boov	hi
20:32	boov	where i can find young girls?
20:33	boov	where i can find young girls?
20:34	boov	which one holocaust was your favourite one?
20:38	TEttinger	yeah that'll work...
20:38	TEttinger	seems to be more trolls lately
20:39	mdeboard	russia
20:39	TEttinger	he was from poland
20:45	allenj12	is there any site that explains how to have leiningen to update localhost on file save? i remember running into one but cant find it now
20:49	bob2	as in reload your code?
20:49	allenj12	bob2: as in re compile the clojurescript file and re fresh local host
20:49	allenj12	bob2: pretty much just restart everything
20:50	allenj12	bob2: i remember a guy doing it with :alias and adding something to his script but i forget how
20:50	allenj12	bob2: and using a light table connection
20:55	allenj12	this is gonna drive me net
20:55	allenj12	nuts
21:02	allenj12	i remember he called the alias lein up
21:02	allenj12	still cant find it tho
21:07	devn	how do you get "\space" from \space?
21:07	devn	i cant brane good. i have the dums
21:08	brehaut	,(str \space)
21:08	clojurebot	" "
21:08	brehaut	probably not
21:08	brehaut	,(pr \space)
21:08	clojurebot	\space
21:08	devn	doy, thanks dude
21:08	justin_smith	,(pr-str \space)
21:08	clojurebot	"\\space"
21:09	justin_smith	pr-str is awesomesauce
21:09	devn	,(with-out-str (pr \space))
21:09	clojurebot	"\\space"
21:09	justin_smith	,(pr-str \ )
21:09	clojurebot	"\\space"
21:09	devn	oh weird, i swear i tried pr-str and it didn't work
21:10	allenj12	where is a good site to find out to set up leiningen to recompile clojurescript and to refresh localhost on save?
21:12	nDuff	allenj12, I'd suggest using figwheel for that.
21:14	nDuff	allenj12, ...see http://rigsomelight.com/2014/05/01/interactive-programming-flappy-bird-clojurescript.html
21:14	devn	honestly, the reason i wanted this is a bit silly, but... in this particular case I'd like to use destructuring on a map for characters
21:14	allenj12	nDuff: awsome thank you :)
21:14	devn	but alas, we only have strs, syms, keys
21:14	justin_smith	no chars, it's an outrage
21:15	nDuff	(though, err, grumble re: asking for a link about doing X, as opposed to just "how do I do X?")
21:15	devn	why /dont/ we have :chars, :ints, etc.?
21:15	justin_smith	:ints would imply that the symbol '1 would not be bound to 1, which sounds evil to me
21:16	justin_smith	but yeah, :chars makes sense
21:16	justin_smith	,(= '1 1)
21:16	clojurebot	true
21:16	nDuff	...note that figwheel goes beyond just reloading the page completely from fresh, and actually tries to keep state across code revisions. :)
21:17	devn	justin_smith: yeah i can dig that
21:19	justin_smith	now I am remembering amalloy_'s evil reflection trick to change the value of one of the integers...
21:20	devn	haha, i was just thinking about that today
21:26	jack_rabbit	devn, what's the trick?
21:31	justin_smith	,(let [five (long (int (+ (int 1) (int 4)))), field (nth (.getDeclaredFields Long) 3)] (.setAccessible field true) (.set field five (int (+ (int 1) (int 4)))))
21:31	clojurebot	nil
21:31	justin_smith	,(range 10)
21:31	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
21:31	justin_smith	,(range 2 6)
21:31	clojurebot	(2 3 4 5)
21:32	justin_smith	hmm
21:32	justin_smith	ahh
21:32	justin_smith	that was the undo :)
21:32	justin_smith	,(let [field (nth (.getDeclaredFields Long) 3)] (.setAccessible field true) (.set field 5 2))
21:32	clojurebot	nil
21:32	justin_smith	,(range 2 6)
21:32	clojurebot	(2 3 ...)
21:32	justin_smith	(inc 5)
21:32	lazybot	⇒ 1
21:33	justin_smith	,(inc 5)
21:33	clojurebot	3
21:33	_ato	nice
21:33	johnwalker	,(inc .4)
21:33	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: .4 in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
21:33	justin_smith	,(+ 5 5)
21:33	clojurebot	4
21:33	johnwalker	(def .4 4)
21:33	johnwalker	,(def .4 4)
21:33	clojurebot	#'sandbox/.4
21:33	johnwalker	,(inc .4)
21:33	clojurebot	2
21:33	john2x	is there a similar emacs plugin for core.test like Midje's plugin? where I can do `C-c ,` to run a fact?
21:33	justin_smith	,(dec 5)
21:33	clojurebot	1
21:34	johnwalker	,(inc *1)
21:34	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var$Unbound cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
21:35	johnwalker	john2x: use projectile with clojure-mode
21:35	johnwalker	oh, you want a particular test to run
21:35	justin_smith	johnwalker: because of the way clojurebot evaluates, *1 is usually not bound
21:36	johnwalker	justin_smith: was worth a shot :)
21:37	john2x	johnwalker: yes, e.g. run the test under the cursor
21:38	johnwalker	have you tried clojure-test-mode?
21:39	johnwalker	C-c M-, runs a deftest
21:40	justin_smith	one thing to note is that every deftest actually creates an fn of no args, and you can call that fn to run the test and see its result
21:41	justin_smith	,(do (require '[clojure.test :as test]) (test/deftest f (test/testing "this fails" (test/is false))) (f))
21:41	clojurebot	\nFAIL in (f) (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)\nthis fails\nexpected: false\n actual: false\n
21:42	justin_smith	"expected: false actual: false"
21:42	justin_smith	worst kind of failure
21:43	johnwalker	when i run it i just get nil
21:43	justin_smith	in clojure.test no output means success
21:43	justin_smith	you don't get the summary, since it is just one test
21:43	johnwalker	when the test breaks i also get nil
21:43	justin_smith	no printed output?
21:44	johnwalker	oh, i do get output
21:44	johnwalker	still weird though
21:44	justin_smith	all testing does is print, what else would it do?
21:45	johnwalker	i dunno, return :fail or :success
21:46	allenj12	figwheel is pretty picky lol
21:55	allenj12	i think figwheel is broken, when i try lein figwheel, i get the error is output-dir in resources QMARK. but when i check the function that sends this error all it does in (.startsWith (get-in build [:compiler :output-dir]) (str "resources/")
21:55	allenj12	:output-dir "resources/public/js"
21:55	allenj12	is my lein
21:59	justin_smith	and you have a resources/ directory I assume?
22:00	johnwalker	:x
22:02	allenj12	justin_smith: yea definatley
22:04	nDuff	allenj12, shrug. figwheel works well for me; did have to follow the setup directions with a certain (nontrivial) level of care. If your code is public, I might have time to look at it in a bit.
22:05	allenj12	nDuff: its just the project.clj right? ill link it
22:06	nDuff	allenj12, ...well, that's not the _only_ thing that can matter. Would prefer a full reproducer, TBH.
22:07	allenj12	nDuff: wait would it matter i have no starting html file? there all being generated by hiccup right now
22:07	allenj12	nDuff: buildings closing brb 10 min
22:12	gfredericks	cider-nrepl just started breaking with an unresolved var in clojure.tools.trace
22:14	cbp	well on the bright side, I'll make sure not to update for now
22:15	gfredericks	it's a snapshot you update all the time
22:15	justin_smith	someone should make one of those static sites "is-the-current-cider-broken.com"
22:15	cbp	oh crap youre right
22:16	justin_smith	page will just be the word "yes", or maybe the word "no"
22:16	cbp	justin_smith: lol
22:17	justin_smith	backend would be a ring server, that periodically pulls from cider, and runs an emacs batch with some elisp that checks if stuff works
22:17	cbp	(inc justin_smith)
22:17	lazybot	⇒ 49
22:18	justin_smith	http://isitraining.in/portland <- are these things still cool?
22:18	justin_smith	http://isitraininginportland.com/ <- less serious / lower effort version
22:19	allenj12	im back
22:20	gfredericks	I'm still here
22:22	allenj12	gfredericks: :)
22:23	allenj12	nDuff: hey does it matter that my html files are being generated by hiccup and there are non actually saved
22:25	tvanhens	how do I refer to a directory using resources so it will be compatible with an uberjar?
22:26	gfredericks	clojure.io/resource
22:26	gfredericks	and the /resources directory in your project
22:26	tvanhens	I'm using resource and it works for lein run
22:26	tvanhens	but when I make an uberjar
22:26	nullptr`	http://isitraining.in/downinafrica
22:26	tvanhens	it fails to run that task
22:27	gfredericks	tvanhens: how does it fail?
22:27	nullptr`	justin_smith: useless!
22:27	justin_smith	what are you doing with the result of io/resource?
22:27	justin_smith	nullptr`: lol
22:27	justin_smith	tvanhens: a common mistake is to call io/file or make a java.io.File out of the result of io/resource
22:27	justin_smith	this works if a resource is on disk, but not in a jar
22:27	tvanhens	using io/file to convert it into a file object and then using file-seq to get everything
22:28	justin_smith	(io/input-stream (io/resource "something")) works in both cases
22:28	justin_smith	you cannot use io/file on a jar resource
22:28	tvanhens	cool let me try that thanks justin
22:31	tvanhens	now I'm getting a file not found exception even in development
22:31	tvanhens	odd thing is the file it says is missing is there
22:31	tvanhens	the path its showing is right
22:31	TEttinger	justin_smith: is it raining? http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11914692/dogeweather/weather.html?place=portland
22:32	justin_smith	it was overcast all day, I saw no actual rain
22:33	justin_smith	but the "is cider broken" site should definitely do it doge style
22:33	TEttinger	my thing is kinda open source
22:33	TEttinger	it doesn't have a server side
22:33	justin_smith	oh, is that yours?
22:33	TEttinger	not really
22:34	TEttinger	dogeweather was credited to the people in the bottom right of the page
22:34	TEttinger	but it used php for no good reason
22:34	TEttinger	I refactored it to pure JS API calls and HTML
22:34	justin_smith	I like the var names http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11914692/dogeweather/js/jquery.dogeweather.js
22:34	justin_smith	nice job
22:35	tvanhens	justin_smith any common errors that lead to file not found when it exists where the uri it says it doesn't exist?
22:35	justin_smith	tvanhens: remember that inside a jar, it is not a file
22:35	justin_smith	it is a resource
22:35	devn	who has a sweet way to generate this sequence? '((2 3) (3 4 5) (4 5 6) (5 6 7) (6 7))
22:36	tvanhens	It stopped working outside the jar though
22:36	tvanhens	thats where I'm getting the error
22:36	justin_smith	tvanhens: are you asking for it relative to the resource (class) path?
22:36	justin_smith	ie. if it is resources/macros/sloth.gif you need to ask for (io/resource "macros/sloth.gif")
22:37	tvanhens	the folder is ./resources/db/schema from the project root I'm refering to it as db/schema in resource
22:37	justin_smith	oh, so what you want is a handle to the containing directory
22:37	justin_smith	I don't know if that is portable between resource and fs actually, I haven't tried it
22:38	tvanhens	ah interesting
22:38	cbp	devn: i don't get it
22:38	justin_smith	there should be some way to abstract over that
22:39	TEttinger	devn, the 2-element subseqs are odd
22:39	tvanhens	yeah really what I need is a way to get all the items within a "folder" in an uberjar
22:39	tvanhens	that also works in development
22:40	TEttinger	resources
22:40	TEttinger	there's a way to declare it in project.clj
22:41	xeqi	devn: looks like a constant, I'd just use it like that
22:41	devn	cbp: TEttinger: If you give me an upper and lower bound, and then you give me a number, I want to hand you back an interval that doesn't violate the bounds
22:41	cbp	devn: here's one way tho ##(map seq [[2 3] [3 4 5] [4 5 6] [5 6 7] [6 7]])
22:41	lazybot	⇒ ((2 3) (3 4 5) (4 5 6) (5 6 7) (6 7))
22:41	tvanhens	TEttinger I'm using a resources directory. Problem is iterating over all the items in a folder in resources
22:42	Jaood	cbp: use the range man
22:42	TEttinger	ah.
22:42	devn	so like, if the range is 2-8 (exclusive on the end), then if you give me 7, I want to give you back (6 7)
22:42	justin_smith	TEttinger: what he wants is to iterate the contents, inside a jar
22:42	justin_smith	oh, he just said that
22:42	devn	if you give me 2, then i want to give you (2-3)
22:42	devn	if you give me 3, i can give you (2 3 4)
22:42	devn	and so on
22:43	tvanhens	If theres a way to list all items in a directory in resources within a jar then I could figure out a workaround
22:43	devn	tvanhens: there is
22:43	devn	err i havent been following along, but my understanding is that you can get at that stuff
22:44	devn	i bet michaniskin knows the answer to this
22:46	TEttinger	##((fn [start end] (map (fn [item] (filter #(and (>= % start) (< % end)) [(dec item) item (inc item)])) (range start end))) 2 8)
22:46	lazybot	⇒ ((2 3) (2 3 4) (3 4 5) (4 5 6) (5 6 7) (6 7))
22:46	michaniskin	tvanhens: devn: https://github.com/tailrecursion/boot.core/blob/master/src/tailrecursion/boot/deps.clj#L17-L21
22:47	michaniskin	:)
22:47	justin_smith	tvanhens: there is a .getProtocol method on java.net.URL
22:47	justin_smith	which is the class returned by io/resource
22:47	TEttinger	##((fn [start end] (map (fn [item] (filter #(and (>= % start) (< % end)) [(dec item) item (inc item)])) (range start end))) 5 15)
22:47	lazybot	⇒ ((5 6) (5 6 7) (6 7 8) (7 8 9) (8 9 10) (9 10 11) (10 11 12) (11 12 13) (12 13 14) (13 14))
22:47	justin_smith	tvanhens: you can check if the protocol is "file" and do the directory scan as file, and otherwise there may be some other action that works
22:48	devn	michaniskin: nice!
22:48	devn	michaniskin to the rescue
22:48	tvanhens	michaniskin giving that a go thanks
22:48	michaniskin	it's expecting a JarFile object there
22:48	TEttinger	(inc michaniskin)
22:48	lazybot	⇒ 1
22:49	TEttinger	devn, what was that non-violating-bounds fn work?
22:49	TEttinger	*does that
22:50	devn	TEttinger: oh, i missed that
22:50	devn	let me try that out
22:50	justin_smith	tvanhens: michaniskin: so I guess if .getProtocol is file, you use io/file and fileseq to get the contents, otherwise you use entries if it is inside a jar
22:51	TEttinger	devn, that's with ## as the equivalent to , for lazybot instead of clojurebot btw
22:51	devn	TEttinger: like a charm
22:51	devn	thanks dude
22:51	devn	i feel like there's /got to be a better way!/ pounds fist
22:51	justin_smith	I feel like something like this should be in clojure.java.io too, since accessing something in a directory at dev time and in a jar at deploy time is common enough
22:52	devn	a modified partition would be nice
22:52	tvanhens	I guess slightly higher level question: is storing the schemas for my db in a jar not the best idea in the world?
22:52	devn	version coupling
22:52	justin_smith	tvanhens: with caribou we get the schemas for the db from the db
22:53	justin_smith	at boot
22:53	justin_smith	we kind of reify things though to make the sql db be more "homoiconic" I guess
22:53	tvanhens	interesting
22:53	justin_smith	and more clearly self describing
22:54	justin_smith	so we have a table called model, and another called field
22:54	justin_smith	and each row in model has many fields
22:54	justin_smith	etc.
22:54	devn	TEttinger: maybe a reduce would be simpler?
22:55	michaniskin	anyone here familiar with sonatype aether?
22:57	justin_smith	,((fn [input] (concat [(take 2 input)] (partition 3 1 input) [(take-last 2 input)])) (range 5 15)) devn
22:57	clojurebot	eval service is offline
22:57	justin_smith	&((fn [input] (concat [(take 2 input)] (partition 3 1 input) [(take-last 2 input)])) (range 5 15)) ; devn
22:57	lazybot	⇒ ((5 6) (5 6 7) (6 7 8) (7 8 9) (8 9 10) (9 10 11) (10 11 12) (11 12 13) (12 13 14) (13 14))
22:57	justin_smith	michaniskin: I know alembic.still is much easier to use
22:58	devn	justin_smith: yeahhhh, im being picky and should just move on
22:58	michaniskin	justin_smith: what i want is to get a list of jars on the classpath, sorted in dependency order
22:58	michaniskin	justin_smith: alembic uses pomegranate, no?
22:58	justin_smith	I think so, yeah
22:59	TEttinger	I love how good #clojure is at shaving yaks on these kinds of problems
22:59	TEttinger	(inc justin_smith)
22:59	lazybot	⇒ 50
22:59	michaniskin	for the life of me i can't figure out how to do that simple thing without a ton of gratuitous calls to resolve-dependencies
22:59	justin_smith	michaniskin: I think some of the abstractions here may help you actually https://github.com/pallet/alembic/blob/develop/src/alembic/still.clj
23:00	michaniskin	the aether/resolve-dependencies function doesn't provide a true dependency graph
23:00	justin_smith	oh, and that is what alembic is using, yeah
23:00	justin_smith	well they wrap it - what is wrong with aether/resolve-dependencies?
23:01	michaniskin	justin_smith: aether/resolve-dependencies returns the information you'd want for something like `lein deps :tree`
23:01	michaniskin	deps :tree doesn't give you a true deps graph, it elides info you're not interested in when you're debugging deps issues
23:02	xeqi	michaniskin: you're looking for something more then https://github.com/cemerick/pomegranate/blob/master/src/main/clojure/cemerick/pomegranate/aether.clj#L790 ?
23:02	michaniskin	xeqi: yes, that only gives you info about which things aether chose, but it elides a lot of info you need to make a true dep graph
23:03	xeqi	"true dep graph" ?
23:03	justin_smith	michaniskin: what about going through all the deps, loading the pom.xml for each, and doing your own graph calculation then?
23:03	michaniskin	for instance, if you specify foo/bar and foo/baz in your project dependencies, and both of those depend on foo/quux, it will only show foo/quux as a child of one or the other, not both
23:03	xeqi	ah, right
23:04	michaniskin	so yes, i could bring in xml parsers and everything
23:04	justin_smith	I hope that's not what you need to do
23:04	michaniskin	but it seems unlikely that there's no way to just do it via aether
23:04	xeqi	I ended up needing that info in pedantic... let me find where it was
23:04	michaniskin	currently i gave up and just do aether/resolve-dependencies individually for each dep
23:05	michaniskin	and then i do the topo sorting
23:11	xeqi	ugh, its been so long since I've delved into the aether area
23:13	michaniskin	xeqi: https://github.com/xeqi/pedantic/blob/master/src/pedantic/core.clj#L81 that guy looks promising
23:13	xeqi	my recollection is you have to inject a DependencyGraphTransformer that will gather the info you want and then "return" it through an atom
23:13	michaniskin	perhaps the :ignored ones are the deps i'm looking for?
23:13	xeqi	and it looks like http://wiki.eclipse.org/Aether/Transitive_Dependency_Resolution says a similar thing
23:13	michaniskin	the ones that are hidden by resolve-dependencies?
23:14	xeqi	:ignored would be a dep w/ a version that wasn't choosen, so yes
23:15	xeqi	though I wrote this stuff >1year ago, so don't take it as gospel
23:15	michaniskin	whew! this is hopeful :)
23:15	michaniskin	my current project has a ton of dependencies, and it's taking forever to do it my naive way
23:16	johnwalker	devn: what is this cloclogo you're working on?
23:16	johnwalker	is this for core.typed?
23:16	xeqi	your naive way was the same way my proof of concept code for lein-pedantic worked, before I actually dove into aether's api
23:17	xeqi	which was mostly undocumented around this stuff :p
23:19	michaniskin	xeqi: where does the session come from?
23:19	michaniskin	xeqi: in the use-transformer function
23:20	xeqi	michaniskin: hmm, lein just uses cemerick.pomegranate.aether/repository-session https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/leiningen-core/src/leiningen/core/classpath.clj#L291
23:21	michaniskin	xeqi: dude thank you. i owe you a beer at the next conj!
23:22	tvanhens	is there a way to use globbing with io/resource?
23:23	xeqi	michaniskin: heh, I hope you're able to crib together what you need. I feel like I'm grabbing just enough straws to point you somewhere but not actually 100% this is exactly it
23:23	xeqi	though I'm getting more confident this is the right area as I stare at it
23:24	michaniskin	tvanhens: https://github.com/tailrecursion/boot/blob/master/boot-classloader/src/tailrecursion/boot_classloader.clj#L76-L77
23:24	michaniskin	tvanhens: that takes a pattern and path both strings, and boolean result
23:24	michaniskin	it has an unfortunate dependency on Ant, but it works with < java7
23:25	justin_smith	tvanhens: what about creating a compile time task that records the resources that should be loaded, based on the directory contents?
23:25	michaniskin	in java7 there is nio stuff to do glob matching on Path objects
23:25	justin_smith	michaniskin: you can get a Path from a jar resource? that's cool
23:26	michaniskin	justin_smith: well i'm not sure about that, but i was assuming you could make one that would allow you to decide if the resource matches or not
23:26	justin_smith	michaniskin: wait, javadoc for path makes it look filesystem specific
23:26	justin_smith	ahh, based on a list of resources for example
23:26	michaniskin	justin_smith: you could do (.getPath (io/file "foo/bar")) and the file doesn't need to exist
23:26	justin_smith	right, then you can use path matching
23:27	michaniskin	xeqi: thanks, i've been at this for a while now, i feel like this may be the breakthrough lol
23:27	tvanhens	oy this bit is ending up a lot more complicated than I thought it would be
23:28	xeqi	michaniskin: what are you building?
23:29	michaniskin	xeqi: i'm overhauling boot: https://github.com/tailrecursion/boot-ng
23:29	michaniskin	xeqi: i have "pods" working now (not fully tested though, so ...)
23:29	michaniskin	pods are a way to dynamically start a child boot session in a segregated classloader
23:30	michaniskin	from within boot itself, so a task can do its actual work in the pod
23:30	michaniskin	basically each task can now load whatever deps it needs to do its work without needing to pollute the classpath of other tasks or the project
23:31	michaniskin	but the build process itself (which has no deps of its own) runs in your project
23:31	allenj12	is domina still used?
23:31	allenj12	seems a while since it was updated
23:31	Jaood	allenj12: looks like react wrappers took oever
23:32	michaniskin	allenj12: how was your hoploning?
23:32	Jaood	*over
23:34	justin_smith	,(.getPathMatcher (java.nio.file.FileSystems/getDefault) "glob:*.clj")
23:34	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: java.nio.file.FileSystems, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
23:34	justin_smith	&(.getPathMatcher (java.nio.file.FileSystems/getDefault) "glob:*.clj")
23:34	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: java.nio.file.FileSystems
23:34	allenj12	Jaood: so like om then
23:35	justin_smith	old jvms :(
23:35	allenj12	michaniskin: hehe pretty great so far :) although only have done a little since we last talked
23:36	allenj12	michaniskin: right now im playing with a couple things
23:36	justin_smith	michaniskin: that looks really cool!
23:36	justin_smith	(the boot project that is)
23:36	michaniskin	justin_smith: the actual production version is here: https://github.com/tailrecursion/boot
23:37	michaniskin	it works, you can try it out!
23:37	justin_smith	very nice
23:37	Jaood	I though everyone here was against running clojure script
23:37	Jaood	s
23:37	allenj12	why?
23:37	clojurebot	why not?
23:37	Jaood	clojurebot: why yes?
23:37	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
23:38	Jaood	clojurebot: thanks
23:38	clojurebot	the best way to thank your friendly #clojure resident is with (inc nick)
23:38	Jaood	(inc clojurebot)
23:38	lazybot	⇒ 40
23:38	justin_smith	haha
23:38	justin_smith	$karma lazybot
23:38	lazybot	lazybot has karma 26.
23:38	michaniskin	justin_smith: you can do cool things like this: https://github.com/tailrecursion/hoplon-demos/blob/master/google-maps/build.boot
23:38	justin_smith	man, clojurebot is totally winning
23:38	michaniskin	that's the build script for a hoplon web app thing
23:39	justin_smith	nice
23:39	Jaood	michaniskin: is boot meant to be use with external dependecies too?
23:39	michaniskin	Jaood: boot is a build tool, like leiningen
23:40	michaniskin	you can use it to pull in external dependencies
23:40	michaniskin	(set-env! :dependencies '[[foo/bar "0.1.0"]])
23:40	Jaood	michaniskin: oh, the was reading just the first about running clojure scripts
23:40	Jaood	*part
23:41	Jaood	with the shebang
23:41	michaniskin	yeah i mean in lisp, all you need for a build tool is a way to run lisp code and bring in dependencies
23:41	michaniskin	all the build stuff is just functions you can call
23:41	xeqi	michaniskin: ah, I thought about trying to do some similar container type things with lein and how it handles tool/project seperation
23:41	xeqi	ended up postponing it due to native deps and possibly something else
23:42	michaniskin	xeqi: it's tricky. i currently have things talking to each other through sockets and evaling things in repls lol
23:42	michaniskin	xeqi: i'm not really concerned with native deps i guess
23:43	xeqi	sockets and evaling? I was leaning towards using classlojure and eval-in-classloader
23:43	xeqi	ah right
23:43	xeqi	clojure's namespaces are global
23:43	michaniskin	xeqi: i started with that route
23:43	xeqi	*namespace list
23:44	michaniskin	but i found that things leaked between sibling classloaders
23:44	michaniskin	and there was no way to communicate upward in the tree without sockets
23:44	Jaood	nice how all the hoplon demos have a a view live option
23:44	xeqi	so that made sharing objects between classloaders couldn't keep diffent loaded namespaces seperate
23:44	michaniskin	like with classlojure the child can't pass messages up to the parent
23:45	xeqi	yep, just returning
23:45	hellofunk	re
23:45	michaniskin	so now i have a master process that starts many children who communicate with each other via sockets and repls
23:46	Jaood	michaniskin: is hoplon planning on using react?
23:46	michaniskin	Jaood: it's compatible with react, meaning you can embed react in there if you want
23:47	michaniskin	but there hasn't been a need so far
23:47	michaniskin	in my work anyway
23:47	michaniskin	far more useful to me has been being able to use jquery plugins and things like that
23:48	michaniskin	Jaood: the dom diffing, virtual dom, and dirty checking isn't necessary with hoplon because of the javelin cells thing
23:49	michaniskin	cells are evaluated in a dependency graph, which is the alternative to dirty checking
23:51	Jaood	michaniskin: I see, gonna read on the javelin stuff to understand that approach
23:52	michaniskin	Jaood: https://github.com/tailrecursion/javelin