#clojure – 2014-05-16

2014-05-16

00:09	beamso	in https://github.com/swannodette/om/wiki/Basic-Tutorial#adding-contacts, what is going on in the let in parse-contact?
00:10	beamso	in the second line are first, last and middle essentially being reassigned based on the first line?
00:11	White_Flame	technically, they're new variables named first/last/middle, shadowing the ones of the line before
00:12	quizdr	beamso however the effect is that the first binding of first/last/middle is no longer usable due to the second "shadowing"
00:12	quizdr	the code appears to be binding them differently depending on whether the last name was provided during the first binding
00:12	beamso	okay.
00:12	beamso	i hadn't seen anyone do it like that before
00:13	quizdr	it's not uncommon. you bind something, then based on what resulted from that, you bind it again. you can iteratively affect the final binding by doing it that way
00:13	quizdr	easier than nesting a bunch of forms to do it all in a single binding
00:14	quizdr	clearer to read too
00:15	quizdr	in that code, suppose there was no middle name provided? then the last name would mistakenly get bound in the first binding as the middle name. so the second binding fixes that
00:16	White_Flame	need some good regex-like operations [first :? middle last]
01:06	cfleming	danielcompton: See https://github.com/cursiveclojure/cursive/issues/186 for some suggestions about test conventions.
01:06	cfleming	I'm not aware of any official guidelines
01:09	danielcompton	cfleming thanks!, I was meaning about naming test cases, not the files themselves.
01:09	danielcompton	,(inc cfleming)
01:09	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: cfleming in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
01:11	cfleming	danielcompton: Ah, no, sorry - I just try to give them somewhat meaningful names.
01:29	waynr	technomancy: i have some lein release stuff done
01:30	waynr	sitting in airports for the next 12 hours, gonna try to get more done
01:51	curiousmah	can someone help me to explain the word "reify"?
01:52	waynr	curiousmah: explain it to whom?
01:52	curiousmah	to me, I don't understand it
01:53	waynr	oh
01:53	curiousmah	is it a Computer science concept?
01:53	waynr	maybe
01:53	mange	According to Google, reify means: make (something abstract) more concrete or real.
01:54	waynr	as far as clojure is concerned, it allows you to create an anonymous instance of the named protocol
01:54	waynr	at least, that's how i understand it
01:54	mange	Yeah, so in Clojure it lets you make a concrete instance of an (abstract) protocol.
01:55	waynr	curiousmah: if you do a text search for 'reify' on this page: https://github.com/clojure-cookbook/clojure-cookbook/blob/first-edition/03_general-computing/3-09_polymorphism-with-protocols.asciidoc
01:55	waynr	there is a pretty easy to understand example of reify
01:56	curiousmah	waynr, well I got several examples of reify myself
01:56	curiousmah	but I just feel not so sure about the concept
01:56	waynr	curiousmah: are you familiar with creating an unnamed function
01:57	curiousmah	waynr, yes
01:58	waynr	then think of reify as being analogous to creating unnamed function, only instead of unnamed function you are creating an unnamed instance of a protocol
01:58	curiousmah	I meant the concept in CS, not just in Clojure
01:59	waynr	i don't know if it's useful as a concept in and of itself, but think of the factory pattern where you want to be able to create instances of some kind of class (only instead of class let's think about protocol)
01:59	curiousmah	sorry about such an unclear question
02:00	waynr	suppose you have the "Shape" protocol and you want to be able to programmatically generate new kinds of shapes, reify might be used in that situation
02:01	curiousmah	waynr, thanks for your time. I did create several reify instances myself when working with some Java libs
02:01	ddellacosta	curiousmah: I'm not sure if this will help but check out a post I wrote on protocols: http://davedellacosta.com/cljs-protocols
02:02	ddellacosta	curiousmah: it's ostensibly CLJS specific but is mostly quite general
02:02	mange	curiousmah: reification is just the idea of taking something abstract and making it real. For instance, Java generics have abstract type parameters (<X>, or whatever), if they were reified then you would be able to, at runtime in the class, use that X to check the generic type of your class. (Java generics aren't reified, though, so you don't have access to your generic parameters: they remain abstract.)
02:03	curiousmah	mange, so reification is just a not-so-serious idea, right?
02:04	mange	What do you mean "not-so-serious"?
02:04	curiousmah	I mean understanding it as in a Clojure function is enough?
02:04	mange	Also worth a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification_(computer_science)
02:05	mange	curiousmah: The concept of reification is bigger than the Clojure reify function, but what the reify function does could be referred to as reification.
02:05	ddellacosta	curiousmah: it's definitely "serious," in the sense that it is used generally and outside of Clojure
02:05	mange	You certainly don't need to understand what exactly reification is to use the reify function effectively.
02:06	srruby	core.logic:
02:06	curiousmah	mange, I hope so
02:06	curiousmah	Thanks for all, you guys
02:06	ddellacosta	curiousmah: I would let it sit, don't worry too much about getting it too deeply at first--use it in Clojure and read more about it and eventually it'll click. That's how it did for me at least.
02:06	mange	curiousmah: I've never once thought about refication when using reify. I just think of it as an anonymous function which can be called in a bunch of different ways (each method being a different way).
02:10	curiousmah	ddellacosta, well, this question came to my mind after I'm quite fluent in Clojure ;)
02:11	ddellacosta	curiousmah: there is always more to learn, huh? ;-)
02:11	curiousmah	;-)
06:14	noncom	hi, i am interested in better defaults for emacs, but on its github page, there is no apparent installable content https://github.com/technomancy/better-defaults where do i find the installation instructions?
06:19	noncom	ok, well, maybe anyone here who can asnwer some questions regarding installing CIDER?
06:24	CookedGryphon	general advice, have a look at emacs live or prelude
06:24	CookedGryphon	both simple to set up opinionated defaults
06:24	CookedGryphon	with decent readmes telling you how to customise basic stuff
06:25	CookedGryphon	(you'll probably want to turn off guru mode in prelude for example, but other than that the defaults are pretty good)
06:28	noncom	oh, i thought that CIDER is the most recent one.. ? you mean that live and prelude are simpler for newbs?
06:29	CookedGryphon	emacs-live and prelude are sets of emacs defaults, cider is included
06:29	clgv	noncom: I think these are just emacs setuops no nrepl frontend alternatives ;)
06:30	noncom	oh its even that cider is included, well fine :) whats the difference between live and prelude?
06:32	CookedGryphon	live has brighter colours and random flashy features, prelude is more sensible
06:33	noncom	uh, can't make a meaningful choice from this place ...
06:36	CookedGryphon	noncom: I personally use prelude
06:36	CookedGryphon	having used live before
06:36	CookedGryphon	I think it's a bit more stable and solid, and has a better system for applying your own changes on top
06:37	clgv	noncom: if both are ready to go for clojure dev. just try both for several hours ;)
06:41	noncom	yeah, guess i'll have to try..
10:06	ampharmex	j #matlab
10:41	trap_exit	in clojurescript, is there a way to test if a varaible is a function?
10:41	trap_exit	in clojurescript, is there a way to test if a varaible is a function?
10:41	trap_exit	(def x 20) (def y (fn [])) ==> (function? x ) = false, (function? y) = true
10:42	teslanick	It would be either (fn? x) or (ifn? x)?
10:44	trap_exit	fn? appears to ahve worked
10:45	master_op	is the "?" symbol mean that argument is optional
10:46	trap_exit	no
10:46	trap_exit	it means it returns true/false
10:46	trap_exit	thsi is not compiler enforced
10:46	trap_exit	it's just convention
10:46	trap_exit	cat? <== is this object a cat?
10:46	trap_exit	dog? <== is this object a dog?
10:46	trap_exit	shibe? <== does this dog use dogecoins ?
10:46	master_op	ok
10:46	master_op	it's clear, thank you
10:46	teslanick	Yeah, question marks indicate simple predicates.
10:47	trap_exit	teslanick: let's build a fucking tesla museum
10:47	teslanick	Agred.
10:47	teslanick	*agreed
10:47	teslanick	Also, it appears that clojurescript's fn? function delegates to goog.isFunction
10:47	teslanick	Which is defined as http://docs.closure-library.googlecode.com/git/local_closure_goog_base.js.source.html#line985
10:49	teslanick	While ifn? does some in-clojure checking of protocols. So it checks if the thing you hand it implements the IFn protocol. (e.g. keywords, maps, vecs, etc)
11:04	bltavares	hi there folks. is there a reason for not having a `flip` function on core? I notice a PR on github proposing the addition but no relative card on the jira board. I am not aware if this have been discussed before as well, sorry if there was a discussion aready (searching for flip on the group yields lots of result)
11:05	cbp	what is a flip function?
11:07	bltavares	takes a function and flips the argument order
11:08	bltavares	cbp: from haskell documentation http://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.7.0.0/docs/Prelude.html#v:flip
11:09	bltavares	(defn flip [f] (fn [a b] (f b a)))
11:09	gfredericks	(defn flip [f] (fn [a b & args] (apply f b a args))) ; better?
11:09	cbp	it says it just changes the first two arguments
11:09	bltavares	gfredericks: yup
11:10	dkinzer	ooh, that's kind of neat. So you can build inverse objects really intuitively.
11:10	stuartsierra	That would probably be more useful in Haskell with its automatic function currying.
11:10	gfredericks	to do it really clojure-style, make 5 different arity clauses
11:10	cbp	:-P
11:10	stuartsierra	#(some-fn %2 %1)
11:11	bltavares	there was a PR https://github.com/clojure/clojure/pull/32 without a ralated jira card
11:11	bltavares	stuartsierra: I was wondering if that is the alternative that the community usually goes for
11:11	gfredericks	stuartsierra: I lean toward functions like flip because they state what I'm trying to do instead of incidentally doing it, perhaps by accident
11:11	cbp	I'm not entirely sure what's the usefulness of flip besides making things harder to read
11:12	gfredericks	but doing that everywhere leads to obnoxious point-free style
11:12	stuartsierra	I usually prefer `let` bindings and explicit arguments over point-free styles like `comp` and `partial`.
11:12	gfredericks	readability; why don't we have an objective way to measure it :(
11:13	bltavares	I agree with gfredericks, flip gives intention. I was more curious if there was a strong reason against it, or if it was ever discussed
11:17	stuartsierra	I do not recall any mailing list discussions on it.
11:17	whodidthis	hit me up with a cool way to check that a vector does not contain nils, like [1 2 nil 3] => false
11:18	pdk	,(every identity [1 2 nil 3])
11:18	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: every in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
11:18	pdk	,(every? identity [1 2 nil 3])
11:18	clojurebot	false
11:18	pdk	,(every? identity [1 2 3 4])
11:18	clojurebot	true
11:18	pdk	enjoy
11:19	cbp	,(every? identity [false])
11:19	clojurebot	false
11:19	pdk	welp
11:20	pdk	,(every? #(not (null %)) [1 false 2])
11:20	whodidthis	cools, yeah i dont mind false values
11:20	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: null in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
11:20	pdk	,(every? #(not (null? %)) [1 false 2])
11:20	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: null? in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
11:20	pdk	man im rusty apparently
11:20	bltavares	,(every? (complement nil?) [false])
11:20	clojurebot	true
11:20	llasram	(doc some?)
11:20	clojurebot	"([x]); Returns true if x is not nil, false otherwise."
11:21	bltavares	,(every? (complement nil?) [1 nil 2])
11:21	clojurebot	false
11:21	bltavares	,(every? (complement nil?) [1 3 2])
11:21	clojurebot	true
11:21	cbp	,(some some? [1 2 3 nil]) ;lol everytime
11:21	clojurebot	true
11:21	cbp	wait thats wrong
11:22	cbp	every
11:46	akazlou	what is the easiest way to get char from the int (i.e. 2 => \2), so far I came with this (first (str 2))
11:46	akazlou	is there better way to do it?
11:47	mpenet	,(char 2)
11:47	clojurebot	\
11:47	mpenet	ah no, not the same
11:48	akazlou	yes, not the same :)
11:48	akazlou	was mine first attempt
11:59	CookedGryphon	,(char (+ (int \0) 2))
11:59	clojurebot	\2
12:00	stuartsierra	,(Character/forDigit 2 10)
12:00	clojurebot	\2
12:01	CookedGryphon	that's better :P
12:02	akazlou	thanks stuartsierra
12:02	stuartsierra	'welcome
12:12	CookedGryphon	I'm having real trouble getting cider-jack-in to work with my custom profiles
12:12	CookedGryphon	I keep gettging oculd not find or load main class clojure.main
12:12	CookedGryphon	but if i do exactly the same at the command line, the repl starts no problem and I can cider connect to it
12:13	johnwalker	why does (map Integer/parseInt ["1" "2" "3" "4"]) give a runtime error?
12:13	johnwalker	wrapping like #(Integer/parseInt %) causes the same expression to succeed
12:13	cbp	you cant use static methods as functions
12:14	technomancy	you can't use any methods as first-class functions
12:14	johnwalker	aha
12:15	johnwalker	cool, thanks
12:46	akazlou	I usually find that I create a helper functions, for example, ranks, or similar, and call them inside (let) form, and I would like to assign the execution of this func into let binding, and ranks is a good binding name for this, so is it too common in Clojure:
12:46	akazlou	(let [ranks (ranks <some collection>)]), it seems it works, I just don't like it too much, but on the other hand I don't lose nice binding name
12:47	akazlou	don't like to lose
12:47	akazlou	of course I can write (let [r (ranks <some collection>)]) instead, but one letter binding is also not possible in every case
12:50	cbp	(let [rs (ranks)]) :-P
12:51	akazlou	or rnks :) I'm just wondering does anyone else have the same problem/concern?
12:53	noncom	what is the easiest way to tug a library from clojars without creating any lein project?
12:54	akazlou	ok, so something to think about :)
12:54	technomancy	noncom: there's a lein-try plugin that iirc does that
12:56	noncom	akazlou: imho this is a code style question. clojure uses the same namespace for functions and variables, so there is no definitive answer to your question
12:57	noncom	akazlou: you could try an "m" prefix for your var names ahahah :)
12:57	noncom	or _
12:58	llasram	akazlou: I generally solve that by making identifiers for functions verbs and for values nouns. You still get some collisions, but not many
13:01	technomancy	straw poll: scm or vcs?
13:01	technomancy	for the name of the lein task to interact with git, hg, etc
13:02	mdeboard	vcs
13:02	llasram	scm; then vcs will be the command for interacting with an Atari 2600
13:02	hiredman	place for files so when you change them you know it or pffswyctyki
13:02	Frozenlock	technomancy: Wells
13:02	mdeboard	then you could add vcr for interacting with your clojure programs on videocassette
13:03	mdeboard	lein vcr play
13:03	mdeboard	something something play framework
13:03	cbp	lein fix-my-maven
13:03	technomancy	need a tie-breaker
13:05	devn	technomancy: you around?
13:05	llasram	If it matters, both git and hg seem to refer to themselves as SCMs and not VCSs
13:06	technomancy	devn: yeah
13:06	technomancy	llasram: I like SCM better as an acronym, but saying "source code management" sounds super weird compared to "version control system"
13:06	technomancy	"source code management" isn't even accurate
13:07	llasram	I'd thought it stood for "software configuration management", which is nice and vague
13:07	technomancy	it's not about config though
13:08	technomancy	except in some super-abstract sense
13:08	devn	technomancy: PM?
13:08	technomancy	well if we can't even figure out what it stands for I'm inclined not to use it
13:08	technomancy	devn: sure
13:08	gtrak	technomancy: but.. but.. the enterprise!
13:08	technomancy	gtrak: talk to the spock
13:09	gtrak	Vacuum Motion Management
13:09	sdegutis	Is there a Clojure tool that lets you dispatch a method based on a non-argument (external) value?
13:10	technomancy	sdegutis: defmulti can dispatch on anything
13:10	technomancy	random numbers, environment vars, phase of the moon
13:10	mdrogalis	technomancy: Oh my God. It is an anagram of High Perl Bagel!
13:10	technomancy	mdrogalis: kinda spooked about that tbh
13:10	Frozenlock	M-x phases-of-moon
13:10	mdrogalis	technomancy: :)
13:12	mdrogalis	technomancy: Looks like you also match "Higgle Help Bar"
13:12	mdrogalis	Get a tattoo of that.
13:13	technomancy	at least it doesn't mention perl
13:13	mdrogalis	Haha.
13:15	sdegutis	mdrogalis: I never understood how people can come up with anagrams. It requires holding so much information in your head all at once.
13:16	sdegutis	technomancy: Oh. It did not look like it. It looked like you give it a function that only takes parameters as argument.s
13:16	technomancy	sdegutis: yes, but it doesn't have to be a pure function
13:16	mdrogalis	http://www.anagrammer.com/anagrammer/
13:16	sdegutis	C-b C-t C-c C-c
13:16	mdrogalis	Shrug
13:16	sdegutis	technomancy: Oh so it can be a function that ignores its arguments and then observes other third party values?
13:16	technomancy	sdegutis: ayup
13:17	sdegutis	That sounds awful.
13:17	technomancy	sdegutis: I actually have an example I just wrote, haha
13:17	sdegutis	I'm surely doing everything wrong if this is the best solution for me.
13:17	llasram	sdegutis: Isn't that exactly what you're asking for though?
13:17	sdegutis	Yes but it doesn't fit in cleanly to what Clojure provides, thus I have the wrong problem.
13:18	llasram	shrugh
13:18	technomancy	sdegutis: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/commit/051ec98f10b3bcd956e5d9f3e4aa10d9d73dc068#diff-a3ef52c31fdf9c0a4a7ba85b7e4ff1e6R8
13:18	llasram	IMHO fits pretty cleanly into what multimethods doo
13:18	llasram	do even
13:18	llasram	Not drunk, I swear
13:19	technomancy	it's based on files on disk that are pointed to by the arg, but not the value of the arg itself
13:19	technomancy	so sorta similar
13:28	gfredericks	www.clojureql.org
13:28	gfredericks	^ this is apparently what happens when people don't like a library
13:29	sdegutis	Thank you.
13:38	noncom	gfredericks: clojureql is awsome!
13:45	{blake}	Random text generator?
13:47	gfredericks	noncom: I liked using it back in the day
13:47	gfredericks	everybody else poo'd on it and shouted about korma
13:53	cbp	that is scummy
14:19	bltavares	is there a project similar to om but for swing applications?
14:27	llasram	I think seesaw is the closest you get, which I guess means "no"
14:28	egghead	clojurians, I'm trying to implement a persistent map and getting a null pointer exception from clojure.lang, no clue how to debug :/
14:28	egghead	NullPointerException clojure.lang.APersistentMap$KeySeq.first (APersistentMap.java:154)
14:28	egghead	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/APersistentMap.java#L154
14:29	egghead	anyone have any clue what might cause that in my weird map impl? I've tried putting printlns everywhere and it always blows up before it gets to them
14:31	bltavares	llasram: I gave it a try. I believe it could be used in a simmilar sense. It allows you to re-render everything. seems like an interesting idea
14:43	waynr	technomancy: so in your email when you refer to prep-tasks and release-tasks are you thinking of having release subtasks that can be selected/reordered with :release-tasks in a project's project.clj
15:02	technomancy	waynr: :release-tasks should just be a vector of task invocations; probably defaulting to [["release" "bump"] ["scm" "tag"] ["deploy" "clojars"] ["release" "bump" "snapshot"] ["scm" "push"]] or something
15:06	szymanowski	hello! How can I turn a collection of channels into a channel containing a collection of corresponding values ?
15:09	arrdem	$seen tim___
15:09	lazybot	tim___ was last seen quitting 22 hours and 1 minute ago.
15:10	arrdem	roight
15:10	dbasch	szymanowski: conceptually that’s what alts does
15:12	bendlas	dbasch: how so?
15:12	dbasch	bendlas: http://clojure.github.io/core.async/#clojure.core.async/alts!
15:12	szymanowski	mmm... I will try that
15:13	bendlas	dbasch: I know what alts does, but if I'm not mistaken, it doesn't maintain any correspondence
15:14	bendlas	quite contrary
15:14	dbasch	bendlas: nobody mentioned correspondence
15:15	bendlas	to me, what szymanowski is looking for would be taking values from a collection of channels round-robin, such that first messages, second messages a.s.o stay together
15:15	bendlas	akin to juxt
15:15	dbasch	bendlas: in a way that would defeat the purpose of having multiple channels
15:16	bendlas	dbasch: szymanowski did "... into a channel containing a collection of corresponding values ..."
15:16	bendlas	yes, it defeats the purpose of channels
15:16	dbasch	bendlas: my interpretation was: get messages from multiple channels into one
15:16	bendlas	yeah, that would be merge
15:17	dbasch	bendlas: yeah, you could merge and then take from that channel
15:18	dbasch	hard to know what’s the right thing without a more specific use case
15:18	szymanowski	sorry i'm still a bit confused about async
15:19	szymanowski	the result of merge is a channel containing a collection of channels?
15:21	bendlas	dbasch: right, and alts is merge + tag, but there is no generic take from multiple channels simultanously, because it poses inherent synchronization problems that always need to be dealt with otherwise
15:21	bendlas	szymanowski: no, plz describe your use case
15:22	bendlas	merge creates a channel containing messages from source channels
15:26	szymanowski	ok thank you very much
15:31	ghadishayban	yeah there's not really a notion of "simultaneously" take, but there is async/map, which will grab an item from each of a list of channels, and then apply f to the result
15:31	ghadishayban	which is a sort of barrier
15:32	ghadishayban	but just like core/map, will not apply f if any source stops short
15:36	johncash	are records recommended outside of code dealing with java interop?
15:37	johncash	they seem pretty OO to me
15:46	llasram	johncash: You can sometimes get a speed boost from using them, if you have actually performance-sensitive code
15:47	llasram	And frequently switch to them as a drop-in replacement for maps w/ the same keyword keys
15:47	llasram	They can also participate directly in protocols
15:47	llasram	OTOH, I'd be hard-pressed to recall a time I've used them myself :-)
15:50	johncash	the thing about using them as map is they don't implement IFn
15:52	pjstadig	johncash: i use keywords as functions to get stuff out of maps way more often than i use maps as functions to get stuff out of maps
15:53	pjstadig	but of course when you have non-keyword keys, then the fact that records don't implement IFn can be a drag
15:53	arrdem	so what's the historical rationale for always loading "user.clj"?
15:54	sdegutis	I don't understand.
15:54	technomancy	arrdem: "hey, we can do weird things as long as they're not documented"
15:54	sdegutis	How do you call a defmethod with no args?
15:54	arrdem	technomancy: I need a good "it's a feature" reaction.
15:55	technomancy	arrdem: same justification as read-eval originally
15:55	technomancy	then it was like "oh crap security hole; better document this"
15:56	arrdem	grrrrr ok.
15:56	bendlas	arrdem, technomancy: something to point to, when somebody asks "why always use at least 2-segmented namespaces"?
15:56	arrdem	bendlas: wha... oh that "foo" can't be a symbol but "foo/bar" can be?
15:57	pjstadig	arrdem, technomancy, bendlas: because users like to use things... otherwise why would it be called user.clj. QED
15:57	technomancy	bendlas: because reasons!
15:58	arrdem	pjstadig: your rationale for compiling arbitrary code at boot time is compelling and by compelling I mean something I intend not to support.
15:58	bendlas	Hey, I've got an idea, let's compile a list of stupid, inconsistent things about clojure, that should change and create tickets for them ...
15:59	arrdem	I'll get the pitchforks and torches...
15:59	cbp	ill get the chips
15:59	pjstadig	bendlas: it's a flawless plan
16:00	technomancy	just write a linter that yells at you
16:00	arrdem	in fairness, I'm reading into the clojure boot sequence and I'm impressed for the most part
16:01	bendlas	technomancy: omg, almost got me with that one
16:01	arrdem	besides weirdness for user.clj, user defined reader literals and the total lack of whitespace or indentation control in clojure.lang.RT it's very nice.
16:02	bendlas	btw, have you thought about alleviating data_reader.clj stupidity in lein?
16:02	technomancy	(when (bad-stuff?) (clojure.java.shell/sh "mplayer" "old-guy-yelling.mp3"))
16:02	technomancy	bendlas: the java.util.Date stuff specifically?
16:02	johncash	-bash: mplayer: command not found
16:03	bendlas	technomancy: more like library composability
16:03	arrdem	pacman -S mplayer
16:03	johncash	-bash: pacman: command not found
16:03	bendlas	data_readers interacts really badly with source distribution
16:03	technomancy	bendlas: we have special handling for that during uberjar
16:04	technomancy	not sure what you mean about source distribution though
16:04	arrdem	technomancy: hints on where to start reading into the uberjar process?
16:05	bendlas	technomancy: distributing .clj files in jars, that end up used with completely different data_readers
16:05	michaniskin	technomancy: does lein do anything special with respect to fetching maven snapshot deps on windows? i'm using pomegranate directly and see weird issues (like a workaround for windows8 seems to be downcasing "snapshot" in the version string) and was wondering if this is known and dealt with in lein?
16:07	bendlas	core understandably advises against distributing data_readers in jars (even though datomic does it), so end user needs to recreate a proper data_readers env
16:07	bendlas	got to look at uberjar support though
16:08	michaniskin	bendlas: where did you find the data_readers best practices recommendations? are they online?
16:08	bendlas	michaniskin: an ML post by stuart sierra
16:09	stuartsierra	data_readers has been a learning experience for everyone. My current view is that there's almost no reason to use them in code, only in EDN data.
16:09	bendlas	https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/B4_uGy1VhnA
16:09	michaniskin	bendlas: thanks!
16:09	technomancy	arrdem: hopefully uberjar isn't too complicated; it's only 150 lines
16:09	technomancy	but if you have questions let me know
16:10	bendlas	stuartsierra: true, but that's also self affirming, given the current state of affairs
16:10	arrdem	technomancy: kk.
16:10	bendlas	also see datomic
16:10	arrdem	stuartsierra: idk... I've liked having custom reader literals for my units library...
16:10	llasram	arrdem: and/or me too, as IIRC refuctored it most recently
16:10	stuartsierra	data_reader tags are really only half-finished since there's no built-in way to print them.
16:11	arrdem	llasram: dvorak user?
16:11	arrdem	stuartsierra: eh you can define a print-method to generate the same format, but sure you don't get it for free.
16:11	llasram	stuartsierra: Or introspect on them. Mirroring EDN in e.g. Avro would be way easier if you could get (tag, literal) tuples instead of just the already-EDN-printed representation of the same
16:11	llasram	arrdem: Yes, but also intentional :-)
16:11	arrdem	llasram: :D
16:12	stuartsierra	llasram: Yes, Fressian does better at that.
16:12	technomancy	bendlas: that sounds annoying, but I don't know much about the problem other than that lein tries to merge things during the uberjar process.
16:12	technomancy	michaniskin: I'm not aware of any windows-specific issues around snapshots
16:13	llasram	bendlas: Oh yeah, that's no longer a problem, at least if you're using Leiningen and a new-enough version
16:13	llasram	bendlas: Well, and people use reasonable namespaces for their tags
16:13	llasram	bendlas: The basic support finds all the data_readers.clj instances on the classpath
16:13	michaniskin	technomancy: thanks
16:13	llasram	bendlas: And lein uberjar merges them for the one copy in the uberjar
16:14	technomancy	oh yeah, I think llasram was the one who wrote that =)
16:14	bendlas	llasram: that's exactly the problem, libs shouldn't dictate data_reader bindings
16:14	llasram	bendlas: I heartily disagree
16:14	pjstadig	if people namespace them, there shouldn't be a problem
16:14	llasram	technomancy: si :-)
16:14	mikerod	I'm getting a "java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: Unknown Collection type" when trying to compile/emit bytecode for a form like: (eval `(new java.util.ArrayList '~(lazy-seq []))) or (eval `(MyDefType. '~(lazy-seq []))) In both cases it comes down to the clojure.lang.Compiler$EmptyExpr, but 2 separate methods both doing the same logical if-else-if flow.
16:14	llasram	pjstadig: exactly
16:14	mikerod	let's try that again:
16:15	mikerod	I'm getting a "java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: Unknown Collection type" when trying to compile/emit bytecode for a form like: (eval `(new java.util.ArrayList '~(lazy-seq [])))
16:15	pjstadig	"monkeypatching" your way into a reader literal tag that someone else wants is bad form
16:15	mikerod	or (eval `(MyDefType. '~(lazy-seq [])))
16:15	mikerod	In both cases it comes down to the clojure.lang.Compiler$EmptyExpr, but 2 separate methods both doing the same logical if-else-if flow.
16:15	amalloy	mikerod: what. why would you attempt to eval an arraylist or a deftype?
16:15	mikerod	amalloy: it is contrived as a simplified example
16:15	pjstadig	i thought there was some guidance somewhere that basically said unnamespaced reader tags are reserved
16:15	mikerod	what I really had was a macro
16:15	amalloy	okay, macros shouldn't emit those things either
16:15	mikerod	that built a constructor call
16:15	mikerod	?
16:16	amalloy	you didn't build a constructor call; you constructed the object at macro time
16:16	technomancy	pjstadig: in elisp "namespaces" are done with prefixing function names with the lib name, and recently people started releasing a bunch of one-letter libraries because of how annoying that gets
16:16	llasram	pjstadig: I believe so, but there's also "generic" namespaces, like e.g. "dn"
16:16	mikerod	`(def ~'sym (new MyType '~(map identity ~some-arg))
16:16	amalloy	ie, your macro should look like (defmacro foo [] `(MyDefType.)), not (defmacro foo [] (MyDefType.))
16:16	mikerod	amalloy: it does
16:16	mikerod	all syntax quoted
16:16	llasram	s,"dn","db",
16:16	mikerod	AOT-compile breaks on the LazySeq being thought to be an EmptyExpr
16:17	mikerod	since LazySeq does not fit the if-else-if type checks
16:17	bendlas	llasram: idk about whether anybody can see it happen in practice, saying that is like saying "dynamic scope shouldn't be a problem, as long as people prefix their variables"
16:17	bendlas	it's just awkward, conceptually
16:17	pjstadig	technomancy: so because elisp is a terrible language, therefore no languages should have namespaces?
16:17	amalloy	mikerod: do you have an actual example? i think the snippet you actually pasted should work fine
16:17	amalloy	but i'm not entirely sure, in the presence of AOT
16:17	mikerod	In both the #emit method and the #getJavaClass method of teh clojure.lang.Compiler$EmptyExpr
16:18	mikerod	the eval I posted breaks if you do (binding [compile-files true] <form>)
16:18	llasram	bendlas: I guess I don't see how using a bad/generic data-reader literal namespace is any different from using a generic code namespace
16:18	michaniskin	bendlas: this is, in fact how dynamic vars work in clojure, lol
16:18	technomancy	pjstadig: no, it's more "be thankful for what you have"
16:18	pjstadig	hehe
16:18	technomancy	"there are starving children in elisplandia" etc
16:18	mikerod	amalloy: it has to be compiled, I suppose "AOT" style
16:19	bendlas	llasram: it isn't. and core is right to do nothing about it, because it's a packaging problem
16:19	amalloy	mikerod: so it sounds like in that case (def x (eval (lazy-seq []))) would break too
16:19	llasram	bendlas: k
16:19	bendlas	that still doesn't help us
16:19	pjstadig	EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE
16:19	stuartsierra	haha
16:19	arrdem	pjstadig: whelp, better become a hermit then.
16:19	llasram	My cat has similar opinions, frequently at 3am
16:20	mikerod	amalloy: that works for me when I test it
16:20	llasram	Mmmm.... hermit cat....
16:20	pjstadig	arrdem: i'm already basically a hermit. (work from home) :)
16:20	arrdem	pjstadig: were you the JPL guy too or is that another lurker...
16:20	pjstadig	llasram: does it move into a new shell every few years?
16:20	llasram	I'm going to say yes, because that is adorable to contemplate
16:20	pjstadig	arrdem: i'm no lurker!
16:20	mikerod	amalloy: It seems to have to go through this flow -> clojure.lang.Compiler$NewExpr -> clojure.lang.Compiler$MethodExpr -> clojure.lang.Compiler$EmptyExpr
16:21	pjstadig	no JPL
16:21	amalloy	mikerod: (binding [compile-files true] (eval `(def ~'x (Foo. ~(lazy-seq []))))) works fine for me
16:21	arrdem	pjstadig: a thousand pardons saiib
16:21	amalloy	as does (binding [compile-files true] (eval `(def ~'x (Foo. '~(lazy-seq [])))))
16:22	pjstadig	~suddenly
16:22	clojurebot	suddenly is !
16:22	mikerod	(binding [compile-files true] (eval `(new java.util.ArrayList '~(lazy-seq [])))) ; throws the exception for me
16:22	pjstadig	ಠ_ಠ
16:22	mikerod	{:major 1, :minor 5, :incremental 1, :qualifier nil} though, perhaps its the clj version
16:23	amalloy	mikerod: that fails for me too, but it's nothing to do with AOT
16:23	bendlas	llasram, michaniskin still, the correct solution IMO would be to implement lexical scope and give every .jar its separate data_readers binding
16:23	johncash	would it be bad to overload class on a protocol
16:23	amalloy	(defmacro foo [] `(java.util.ArrayList. '~(lazy-seq []))) (foo) fails the same way
16:23	johncash	so (class weapon) == "mighty"
16:23	mikerod	b
16:23	bendlas	hard to do with classloader badness java
16:24	bendlas	and I'm not sure whether core could do anything to support that
16:24	mikerod	amalloy: yes, good simplification
16:24	technomancy	bendlas: during uberjarring you'd have to map namespaces back to the jar from whence they came
16:24	mikerod	I'm not sure what is making the type be LazySeq
16:24	mikerod	but go through the Compiler$EmptyExpr flow
16:25	amalloy	so the problem is when you quote an empty collection, and then attempt to eval/compile that
16:25	arrdem	so.... how does clojure.core define clojure.core/ns on line 5305 and use it on like line 5...
16:25	amalloy	because the compiler believes it knows how to produce an instance of an empty collection, but doesn't cover all possible types
16:25	gfredericks	it redefines things sometimes
16:25	bendlas	technomancy: yes, and to be correct, that would also need to happen during regular load
16:25	pjstadig	i thought ns was sort of a special form, too
16:26	mikerod	amalloy: (eval `'~(lazy-seq '()))
16:26	Bronsa	arrdem: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/RT.java#L307
16:26	technomancy	pjstadig: it's hard-coded in weird ways but not like other special forms
16:26	amalloy	(defmacro foo [] `'~(lazy-seq []))
16:26	amalloy	yeah
16:26	arrdem	Bronsa: cheers
16:26	mikerod	hmm
16:26	pjstadig	technomancy: right maybe I mean a first among macros or something
16:26	mikerod	My workaround where it occurred for me was to just not put a LazySeq there
16:26	amalloy	well, of course
16:26	mikerod	but it is sneaky. I was trying to see if I could find a related defect somewhere
16:27	amalloy	there have been issues with emptyexpr somewhere before
16:27	technomancy	pjstadig: sounds about right
16:28	arrdem	Bronsa: AH. Cute! thanks, that block wasn't clear to me initially.
16:28	johncash	is there a way to see if a record implements a protocol?
16:28	bendlas	johncash: satisfies?
16:28	amalloy	&(doc satisfies?)
16:28	lazybot	⇒ "([protocol x]); Returns true if x satisfies the protocol"
16:29	johncash	(inc bendlas)
16:29	lazybot	⇒ 1
16:29	johncash	(inc amalloy)
16:29	lazybot	⇒ 107
16:29	bendlas	... it's a start anyway ...
16:29	arrdem	(inc bendlas) ;; welcome to #clojure, have some karma
16:29	lazybot	⇒ 2
16:29	Bronsa	amalloy: mikerod I have a patch in a jira ticket that fixes that issue btw
16:30	bendlas	^^ thx
16:30	amalloy	oh, that's nice, Bronsa. i couldn't find it from google
16:30	mikerod	Bronsa: well, that's good to hear
16:30	mikerod	I searched around the Jira, had no luck
16:30	Bronsa	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1093
16:31	mikerod	best I found was http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-62 ; and that's not it
16:31	Bronsa	I don't really like my patch and I'll try to find a better solution in the next days btw.
16:32	Bronsa	,(print-dup (subvec [1 2] 1) out)
16:32	clojurebot	#=(clojure.lang.APersistentVector$SubVector/create [2])
16:33	mikerod	Bronsa: I saw this Jira recently actually. I didn't connect the dots that it was related to the issue I just found.
16:34	Bronsa	mikerod: the first half of the patch deals with your issue. instead of analyzing (lazy-seq []) in an EmptyExpr it leaves it as a ConstExpr and compiles it as a print-dup+read-string
16:34	amalloy	oh, i did find that one, Bronsa, but the title didn't look related to mikerod's issue
16:34	mikerod	Yeah, I can see how it is connected now.
16:35	Bronsa	amalloy: mikerod essentially EmptyExpr can only compile PersistentList/Vector/Map/Set but will match any IPersistentCollection
16:35	amalloy	yes, i noticed that in the compiler
16:43	mikerod	makes sense.
16:48	noncom\|2	when using RT or Compiler from Java (note: I'm currently restricted to the old 1.5.1 way), is there any notion of Clojure environment, which persists between the evaluation calls, i.e. the same persistance as in a repl?
16:50	amalloy	noncom: the entire runtime persists
16:50	justin_smith	noncom\|2: isn't that persistence just based on the current namespace?
16:50	amalloy	it doesn't know whether you're calling it from java, or from a repl (which is, after all, java)
16:51	arrdem	Bronsa: how is import bound? I'm not seeing it defined in RT.java, but it's used in core.clj prior to being rebound so I must be missing something.
16:51	noncom\|2	justin_smith: but repl also persists in multiple nss
16:51	noncom\|2	amalloy: that's very cool, so it will work for me then!
16:51	gfredericks	does it bother anybody else that C-u C-x C-e doesn't print stdout to the repl buffer?
16:52	Bronsa	arrdem: clojure.core/import* is a special form
16:52	justin_smith	what I am saying is def is a thing that stores a value to a symbol in a namespace, that's how things persist - if RT did not persist things, you would need to reload clojure between each call, and you would notice, because that takes a while
16:52	nullptr	gfredericks: yes!
16:52	Bronsa	arrdem: look for ImportExpr in Compiler.java
16:53	arrdem	Bronsa: Ah. yeah it's import* I'm seeing used. osum.
16:53	amalloy	gfredericks: what does it do, in cider or nrepl or whatever the cool kids are using now?
16:53	gfredericks	amalloy ignores stdout
16:53	gfredericks	prints result to the current buffer
16:53	noncom\|2	justin_smith: oh that's true! i think me just wanted to be sure that using the internals from java code will behave the same way as from the repl
16:53	amalloy	in slime, it writes stdout and the return value both to the current buffer
16:54	gfredericks	I'm not sure I'd like that
16:54	amalloy	no, it sounds awful
16:54	amalloy	i never use C-u eval-stuff, myself
16:54	amalloy	i don't really get the use-case
16:54	gfredericks	I use scratch buffers a lot
16:54	gfredericks	for clojure
16:54	gfredericks	and C-u is a nice way to have a record of what I was doing
16:55	amalloy	interesting
16:55	gfredericks	by "scratch buffer" I mean an actual file that I keep uncommitted
16:55	gfredericks	so I'll have stuff lying around for weeks
16:55	gfredericks	feels less transient than a repl
16:56	amalloy	gfredericks: does cider remember your repl history yet?
16:56	nullptr	my case: kicking off some api stuff that might take a few minutes to run, and not wanting to hunt around the Messages buffer for the result
16:56	gfredericks	amalloy: um; M-p works but I thought that was because of generic emacs
16:56	amalloy	gfredericks: i mean across repl restarts
16:56	gfredericks	nullptr: I have a nice bg macro for backgrounding stuff, and would like the updat messages it prints to be in the repl buffer
16:57	gfredericks	amalloy: prollably not
16:57	lemonodor	i do wish cider didn’t kill my repl buffers so eagerly.
16:57	nullptr	gfredericks: yes, it's annoying that the prefix arg changes that
16:57	lemonodor	persistent repl history would be nice, but even just keeping my buffer around until i kill it would be cool.
16:57	gfredericks	nullptr: maybe I'll make a PR then
16:57	technomancy	persistent history is a thing
16:57	gfredericks	it feels more likely to be annoyed that the out is lost than that it's kept
16:58	technomancy	I don't know why it's not on by default
16:58	amalloy	i have stuff in my slime-repl clojure buffer that's about a week old, which i guess is the last time i closed/opened emacs? my input history goes back for a month or two, but i can see how it would be useful to use this C-u stuff to have the outputs associated with those inputs
16:58	gfredericks	I feel like scratch files are more flexible than a repl buffer
16:59	arrdem	gfredericks: here here... I like being able to save my scratch work.
17:00	arrdem	I actually have a ~/scratch project that's just bits and bats with a project dependency list as long as your arm where I prototype stuff before promoting it to a real project.
17:00	pjstadig	gfredericks: sounds like you want something more like session
17:01	pjstadig	https://github.com/kovasb/session
17:01	gfredericks	yes but without a web browser :P
17:01	pjstadig	right :)
17:01	gfredericks	I'm not sure what features I'm missing though?
17:03	arrdem	so what was the rational for data_readers.clj rather than having a (define-syntax)?
17:04	tudd	interop ? : does :exposes-methods param in gen-class only expose a protected SuperClass method?
17:04	gtrak	arrdem: the reader needs to be bootstrapped before anything else runs, and you can traverse classpath-resources recursively to assemble everything.
17:04	gtrak	arrdem: you need some kind of entry-point.
17:05	tudd	can't seem to have clojure find protected methods. not sure why..
17:05	gfredericks	PR for cider & out: https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/571
17:05	gtrak	arrdem: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L6989
17:06	arrdem	gtrak: yeah I'm already looking at ti.
17:06	gtrak	notice it all runs at the end of core.clj
17:06	gtrak	so, before anything else.
17:06	nullptr	(inc gfredericks)
17:06	lazybot	⇒ 55
17:07	arrdem	hum.... close enought.
17:07	arrdem	(inc gtrak)
17:07	lazybot	⇒ 11
17:10	arrdem	(doc ..)
17:10	clojurebot	"([x form] [x form & more]); form => fieldName-symbol or (instanceMethodName-symbol args*) Expands into a member access (.) of the first member on the first argument, followed by the next member on the result, etc. For instance: (.. System (getProperties) (get \"os.name\")) expands to: (. (. System (getProperties)) (get \"os.name\")) but is easier to write, read, and understand."
17:10	arrdem	oops. thanks clojurebot
17:11	liflash	hi everyone
17:12	liflash	i've got a problem starting a repl
17:12	liflash	i have a dev namespace that contains stuff for an austin repl
17:14	liflash	when starting a repl with the project.clj containing an init-ns with the dev namespace i always get the classnotfound exception for cemerick.austin.repls
17:14	liflash	when starting the repl without the init-ns in the dev namespace and requiring it in the repl everything works fine
17:14	liflash	any ideas
17:14	liflash	?
17:21	kenrestivo	(inc nobody-in-particular)
17:21	lazybot	⇒ 1
17:22	kenrestivo	also, i thought .. was deprecated in favor of The Pointy Stuff, ie. -> and ->>
17:25	amalloy	kenrestivo: not deprecated. just discouraged/displaced
17:26	dgleeson	does anyone know if there is a plugin for lein or something to produce a dependency report?
17:27	technomancy	dgleeson: like `lein deps :tree`?
17:27	technomancy	or maybe https://github.com/technomancy/lein-licenses
17:27	dgleeson	oh perfect
17:27	dgleeson	thanks!
17:27	technomancy	np
17:28	dgleeson	oh your plugin is even better, awesome, I'm trying to get all the libraries and stuff I'm using approved by legal at my work.
17:29	liflash	nobody any idea why a namespace wouldn't be found when starting a repl compared to being already in a repl?
17:33	lemonodor	eek. fear the number of “Unknown” licenses I’m seeing reported by lein licenses.
17:33	technomancy	sadface
17:33	technomancy	lemonodor: open issue reports if you can
17:33	lemonodor	already in progress
17:33	technomancy	invaluable man
17:34	technomancy	though don't trust the plugin's heuristic 100% either
17:34	technomancy	there could be a license that just isn't declared in a way that's easy to guess programmatically
17:34	technomancy	though it never hurts
17:34	arrdem	technomancy: don't you have a license as part of the project.clj?
17:35	arrdem	or are people silly and don't provide that..
17:35	technomancy	it's not required
17:35	technomancy	though lein yells at you during deploy if you omit it
17:36	technomancy	and you get it if you use lein new
17:38	arrdem	λα
17:40	johncash	so i have a record in an atom. im calling a function in that record that returns a new record. whats the idomatic way to update the atom? (reset! foo (func @foo "thing)) ?
17:40	johncash	idiomatic
17:41	gfredericks	nope
17:41	gfredericks	(swap! foo func "thing")
17:41	johncash	ah
17:41	johncash	brilliant
17:41	johncash	this immutable stuff takes some getting used to
17:41	tolstoy	Anyone know if something changed in the latest OM such that "set-state!" no longer triggers an om render?
17:41	gfredericks	yep
17:41	johncash	(inc gfredericks)
17:41	lazybot	⇒ 56
17:43	amalloy	johncash: it's not really immutable stuff if you're just shoving it all into an atom, eh?
17:43	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
17:46	gfredericks	amalloy: depends on how you interact with it; you still get snapshots
17:46	johncash	amalloy: isn't it still immutable, the pointer is just different ?
17:46	sdegutis	johncash: swap requires pure function though
17:46	amalloy	yeah, what i said isn't really useful this time
17:46	amalloy	(dec amalloy)
17:46	lazybot	You can't adjust your own karma.
17:46	gfredericks	(dec amalloy)
17:46	lazybot	⇒ 106
17:47	amalloy	gfredericks: i know you've been fantasizing about doing that, so i thought i'd show you it was okay
17:47	gfredericks	amalloy: ...thanks man. I needed that.
17:47	gfredericks	I think I'm going to be okay now.
17:50	gfredericks	when are we going to upgrade this karma to LazyCoin?
17:50	gfredericks	we just have to figure out how to enforce that mining for LazyCoin can only be done by helping people with clojure
17:52	lemonodor	there, now everyone just has to accept my pull requests and then the whole world needs to update all their dependencies to the latest version, and lein licenses will give me a clean report. i do it not for myself, but for the clojurians of the far future.
17:53	liflash	2nd try: any idea why a class is not found on repl startup, but using it in a running repl is ok?
17:57	johncash	race condition?
17:59	liflash	hmmm, i also thought about that... but it did work in the past and why would the repl init a ns without loading the classpath?
18:08	arrdem	liflash: some clojure code you load explicitly mutates the load path would be my bet.
18:10	stuartsierra	liflash: anything AOT-compiled? Try `lein clean`
18:11	liflash	you're right, that's a possibility... it's the austin plugin and i think it does some stuff with the paths
18:12	liflash	thanks for the hint, stuartsierra, but that doesn't seem to do the trick
18:13	liflash	is someone able to reproduce this? maybe my project setup is kind of messed up
18:13	liflash	here's my setting
18:15	liflash	project.clj: :repl-options {:init-ns tools} :profiles {:dev {:plugins [[com.cemerick/austin "0.1.4"]]}}
18:15	liflash	in the tools ns i got the code from the sample project:
18:15	liflash	(def repl-env (reset! cemerick.austin.repls/browser-repl-env
18:15	liflash	(cemerick.austin/repl-env)))
18:15	liflash
18:15	liflash	(defn browser-connected-repl []
18:15	liflash	(cemerick.austin.repls/cljs-repl repl-env))
18:15	liflash
18:19	liflash	oh, and i get the classnotfoundexception for the cemerick.austin.repls
18:20	stuartsierra	liflash: Did you `require` the cemerick.austin.repls namespace before using it?
18:20	liflash	not in the tools ns
18:21	stuartsierra	There's your problem, then. :)
18:21	streblo	what did people here do to learn clojure?
18:21	liflash	i thought it should work when referencing the whole classpath and name
18:21	liflash	because this works in the repl, too
18:22	liflash	and it did work in the past, already....
18:22	stuartsierra	liflash: No, Clojure namespaces are not loaded automatically, even when you refer to them by their full name, unlike Java classes.
18:22	liflash	hmmm, ok
18:22	liflash	let me have a try
18:28	liflash	oh man..... this realy does the trick
18:29	liflash	thank you very much!!
18:29	stuartsierra	You're welcome!
18:31	liflash	streblo: i started with 4clojure
18:31	liflash	read a book
18:31	liflash	and started a small project to try out things
18:39	noncom\|2	is there any example of using Var.alterRoot() from ajva?
18:39	noncom\|2	*java
18:57	gtrak	noncom\|2: you've gotta get the var instance, same as invoking a function.
18:58	noncom\|2	gtrak: yeah, got success with it :)
18:58	noncom\|2	too much boilerplate though
19:51	hiredman	why would you use alterRoot from java?
19:52	hiredman	I would hate to use it in clojure
20:02	lemonodor	technomancy: thanks for the edn.all. i may also take a look at handling parent poms.
20:03	technomancy	lemonodor: that would be sweet
20:03	technomancy	lemonodor: unfortunately clojars has been a bit neglected recently
20:04	technomancy	good to get some fresh blood in
20:04	lemonodor	it’s an important resource!
20:05	technomancy	yeah, it has been working remarkably good for all the neglect it gets
20:05	technomancy	*well
21:32	eflynn	hi
21:46	gfredericks	holy crap rich likes clojure.core/update
21:46	gfredericks	somehow I assumed that was impossible
22:12	muhuk	Is there a more idiomatic way to do this? https://gist.github.com/muhuk/08bc80611590f2fe79b1
22:13	muhuk	Assuming I idempotent-fn is a 3rd party function. And assuming I'm trying to avoid memoizing a local copy of it.
22:22	gfredericks	muhuk: 3rd-party meaning a library or an external service-or-something?
22:24	muhuk	gfredericks: no, 3rd party package, a lein dependency.
22:25	gfredericks	as long as it doesn't constitute a top-level side effect, it's fine
22:25	gfredericks	so looks good to me
22:25	muhuk	gfredericks: let me ask you something else; does that form, fn inside a let seem ugly to you as well?
22:25	muhuk	gfredericks: so, I guess no
22:25	gfredericks	you could def the two results if you liked that better
22:25	gfredericks	then you could keep a defn
22:26	muhuk	gfredericks: right, but I was kinda trying to omit that
22:26	muhuk	gfredericks: I wanted to somehow keep those 2 calls within my function definition (def or defn or whatever)
22:26	gfredericks	decide what you hate more I guess :)
22:26	muhuk	gfredericks: right.
22:27	muhuk	gfredericks: thanks.
22:27	gfredericks	np
22:36	lemonodor	technomancy: i went with a really simple fix, but it seems to give much better clojars search results: https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/pull/210
22:38	SegFaultAX	If I wanted to build my own http reverse proxy, what are some Clojure/Java libraries that I should start with?
22:40	gfredericks	I think I made quarter-assed one a couple years ago
22:42	lemonodor	the world of pom parent resolution looks kind of nasty.
22:42	gfredericks	https://github.com/fredericksgary/lib-5141
22:42	gfredericks	SegFaultAX: ^ I'll bet you five bucks that isn't helpful
22:42	SegFaultAX	gfredericks: Actually that
22:42	SegFaultAX	's pretty helpful.
22:43	gfredericks	crap
22:43	SegFaultAX	Cought it up.
22:43	SegFaultAX	And your lunch money too.
23:13	arrdem	gfredericks: I can loan you a couple KƉ if you need it :P