#clojure – 2014-05-15

2014-05-15

00:01	dgleeson	l1x: makes sense
00:01	devn	l1x: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/d4dad5ff47ae7e92f7a5
00:02	devn	i've logged to make sure I'm hitting :started.
00:03	ddellacosta	devn: was just going to ask--so started definitely is happening, huh?
00:03	devn	if I inc pending in a different place, outside of the condp, right before i add the listener
00:03	devn	everything works
00:03	devn	but it's just weird, and i can't figure out why the hell this would be happening
00:04	devn	it's like the atom is "warming up" or something
00:04	devn	but then again, that might be the s3 transfer manager?
00:04	devn	it boots up its own thread pool
00:05	devn	oh no. im a terrible liar.
00:06	devn	:started apparently is not getting hit now on the first go-round
00:06	devn	i wonder why that's the case...
00:08	devn	it's weird because i re-eval the ns, run a fn in the REPL, see that :started isn't hit. so then i was thinking well it must be something like the upload completed too quickly, but if I wait for awhile and do another, they forever after hit the :started event
00:08	devn	it's just after i re-eval, the very first upload, and no others
00:49	arrdem	,#inst
00:49	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
00:52	amalloy	devn: i speculate that the :started event never fires at all, on any events; you just get one :failed
00:54	amalloy	try doing some logging instead of, or in addition to, just munging a number around
00:55	Raynes	amalloy: I wrote the lein plugin.
00:55	Raynes	amalloy: You should try it.
01:25	bjeanes	man trying to write an oauth1 workflow for friend...
01:26	bjeanes	keep spinning my wheel
01:26	bjeanes	s
01:52	lds	hello
02:41	TerranceWarrior	is it possible to make a c++ interface to unrealengine from clojure?
02:51	danielcompton	Is there a more efficient/idiomatic way to write https://gist.github.com/danielcompton/1c741fcac42424433943 ?
02:52	danielcompton	I'm wanting the values of a map sorted by key, (map second) seems like a bit of a hack
03:00	mange	danielcompton: would (map val) work better for you? (->> m (sort-by key) (map val)) seems like it would be clearest.
03:01	mange	,(->> {:c :d, :a :b} (sort-by key) (map val))
03:01	clojurebot	(:b :d)
03:02	AimHere	So use 'val' instead of 'second'?
03:03	mange	It's pretty much the same thing, it just reads a bit more naturally, maybe.
03:07	danielcompton	mange: Thanks, that's better
03:08	danielcompton	Because you're mapping over a MapEntry, not a vector so val works too?
03:09	AimHere	I probably should go back and do some more Rosalind problems sometime!
03:09	bjeanes	am I crazy or is `lein ring server` suppressing stdout?
03:09	mange	danielcompton: Yeah, each of your seq elements is a MapEntry, so you can use key and val for readability.
03:11	mange	Actually, key and val should be slightly more performant, too, but probably not by too significant an amount.
03:16	danielcompton	mange: because they're operating directly on the mapentry?
03:18	mange	Yeah. first/second call seq on their argument (if it's not already a seq), so that will have to do some work (allocation, in particular), whereas key/val just call .getKey/.getValue directly.
03:40	Glenjamin	you can also use an actual sorted map
03:40	Glenjamin	,(into (sorted-map) {1 :a 3 :b 2 :c})
03:40	clojurebot	{1 :a, 2 :c, 3 :b}
03:41	mange	He's using frequencies, so he can't control the map type.
03:54	DEA7TH	what is the typical way to do something with the numbers from 1 to 1000, use range (1 1001)? use some sort of a loop?
03:56	numberten	what sort of thing?
03:57	danielcompton	Glenjamin I thought about rewriting frequencies to use a sorted map, which would be faster?
03:57	numberten	DEA7TH: (range 1001) gives you the numbers
03:58	numberten	rather 1 1001
03:59	numberten	i think the typical way of using them varies on what you're using them for
03:59	mange	danielcompton: sorted maps don't support transient/persistent! at the moment, so that might end up being slower than frequencies and sorting.
04:00	danielcompton	What would be the best way to benchmark it? Criterium?
04:01	amalloy	danielcompton: a map sorted by its vals is, i believe, a priority queue
04:01	amalloy	there are implementation of those hanging around in clojure somewhere, i'm fairly sure
04:01	mange	amalloy: he's looking to sort by key.
04:02	amalloy	oh, i see. isn't that just vals?
04:02	amalloy	in a sorted map?
04:02	amalloy	i see that's been covered too
04:04	numberten	is there an idiomatic way to pass around a configuration structure?
04:04	numberten	or rather to handle configuration
04:06	danielcompton	amalloy, I was wanting to get the values from frequencies sorted by key and I'm trying to work out which would be faster, re implementing frequencies to use a sorted map, or converting the map after.
04:06	dbasch	danielcompton: do you really need to optimize it?
04:06	danielcompton	dbasch not really,
04:07	danielcompton	dbasch I'm wanting to learn more about building performant clojure, so this seemed like a simple example
04:07	DEA7TH	numberten: I want to sum over some of the numbers from 1 to 1000
04:07	dbasch	danielcompton: you may look into the option of using a java TreeMap
04:07	DEA7TH	numberten: Project Euler, problem 1. I'm learning Clojure
04:08	DEA7TH	(btw I know there's a better way to solve it)
04:08	dbasch	just for completeness
04:08	danielcompton	dbasch Now we're talking
04:08	danielcompton	Is criterium the best way to benchmark this?
04:09	numberten	DEA7TH: folds/reductions are the go-to higher order function for taking a structures of values and turning them into a single value (sum)
04:10	dbasch	danielcompton: I don’t know a better way than criterium
04:11	dbasch	danielcompton: I did a similar comparison once when I was trying to build an inverted index. Persisten structures < transients < java hashmap in terms of performance
04:12	danielcompton	dbasch what was the order of performance between each? Order of magnitude each time?
04:12	dbasch	danielcompton: no, it was the same order of magnitude
04:12	dbasch	using a hashmap was maybe twice as fast as a persistent map
04:13	dbasch	but it was a very specific case, not sure I’d generalize from that
04:18	numberten	DEA7TH: I guess you could also use the fact that '+' takes an arbitrary number of arguments as well and just (apply + (range 1 1001))
04:19	numberten	but that doesn't abstract the problem really. and relies on implementation details in the function you're trying to apply to the collection
04:34	danielcompton	Here's my early results https://gist.github.com/danielcompton/4b1a59054a40a89c19ec
04:36	Glenjamin	mange / danielcompton / amalloy - clojure.data.avl seems to be a decent sorted-map implementation that supports transients and other neat stuff
04:37	Glenjamin	and then depending on your use-case, you can use https://github.com/ztellman/immutable-int-map and then (reducers/fold) will give you multicore speedup
04:39	numberten	is there a built in function for this: (foo {:a 1 :b 2} {:a 0 :b 0 :c 0}) => {:a 1 :b 2 :c 0}
04:39	numberten	so update all values in map 2 from those given in map 1
04:39	Glenjamin	,(doc merge-with)
04:39	clojurebot	"([f & maps]); Returns a map that consists of the rest of the maps conj-ed onto the first. If a key occurs in more than one map, the mapping(s) from the latter (left-to-right) will be combined with the mapping in the result by calling (f val-in-result val-in-latter)."
04:39	numberten	many thanks
04:40	Glenjamin	oh, in fact that's just (merge map-2 map-1)
04:41	numberten	even simpler
04:59	danielcompton	So using a custom sorted-frequencies implementation is slightly faster https://gist.github.com/danielcompton/4b1a59054a40a89c19ec#file-dna-frequencies-the-second
04:59	danielcompton	Now for the tree map
05:17	DEA7TH	How do I break this code into multiple lines: (reduce + (filter #(= 0 (* (mod % 3) (mod % 5))) (range 1000)))
05:17	DEA7TH	I suppose that's too much for a single line?
05:19	danielcompton	DEA7TH you can use a threading macro -> and ->> to break this up and make it more readable
05:19	DEA7TH	more generally, is there a way to split function arguments into multiple lines
05:20	neena	DEA7TH: The function arguments can span multiple lines.
05:21	danielcompton	DEA7TH https://www.refheap.com/85517
05:22	DEA7TH	->> reverses the order?
05:24	quizdr	What is the best clojure approach to connecting to a websockets? I see that both Jetty and http-kit can do this, but it would be an either-or choice, not the two in combination, right?
05:25	neena	DEA7TH: It inserts the result of the previous form in the last position of each form.
05:27	neena	DEA7TH: Also, you might want to use zero? instead of (= 0 ...)
05:27	clgv	,(macro-expand '(->> (range 100) (filter even?)))
05:27	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: macro-expand in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
05:27	clgv	,(macroexpand '(->> (range 100) (filter even?)))
05:27	clojurebot	(filter even? (range 100))
05:27	clgv	DEA7TH: ^^
05:33	pepijndevos	I use gen-class to subclass a class with a main, how do I get that main to actually work?
05:33	pepijndevos	$ lein run -m neo4j.server
05:33	pepijndevos	Exception in thread "main" java.lang.Exception: Cannot find anything to run for: neo4j.server
05:42	DEA7TH	ehh, can I invoke a function which is declared in code below? it doesn't seem to work
05:43	emlyn	pepijndevos: have you added a (defn -main [...] ...)? Also you don't need gen-class for lein run
05:43	pepijndevos	emlyn, I did not, but I just want to call super's main
05:45	pbw	quizdr: that's something I'd like to take a look at. AFAIK http-kit doesn't do https. Is that true? It would mean that for a general solution you need some other server element in the mix.
05:45	emlyn	pepijndevos: not sure, but I think you'll have to add a -main and call that explicitly
05:45	pepijndevos	emlyn, how do I refer to the super's main?
05:46	emlyn	pepijndevos: not done that before but I expect (super/-main ...)
05:46	pepijndevos	I tried :exposes-methods {main super-main}
05:46	pepijndevos	but I get Unable to resolve symbol: super-main in this context
05:51	emlyn	pepijndevos: I'm not sure, but if you can put a minimal example on refheap I can take a look
05:51	pepijndevos	this is my current file https://www.refheap.com/85518
05:51	quizdr	pbw ah that's good to know.
05:52	pepijndevos	emlyn, it requires org.neo4j.app/neo4j-server "2.1.0-M01"
05:56	pepijndevos	What if I used a proxy and no gen-class. Just a main method that calls main on the proxy
06:00	emlyn	pepijndevos: sorry I'm a bit out of my depth, not sure what to suggest...
06:00	pepijndevos	hmmm, ok thanks for thinking along :)
06:04	pepijndevos	I can't even figure out how to call the main of the proxy I made
06:05	pepijndevos	proxy creates an instance already it seams
06:10	emlyn	pepijndevos: have you tried (proxy-super main) in the proxy?
06:11	pepijndevos	emlyn, I'm not even overriding main now
06:13	pepijndevos	the problem is that I need to call a static method on an instance
06:13	clgv	pepijndevos: -main is a static method, there is no such thing as inheritance of static methods
06:13	pepijndevos	(. (Integer. 3) (parseInt "42", 10))
06:13	clgv	pepijndevos: you'll have to write your own main if you want to start that particular class
06:14	pepijndevos	what should that main look like?
06:15	pepijndevos	clgv, I have 2 versions: https://www.refheap.com/85518 https://www.refheap.com/85520
06:17	clgv	pepijndevos: well you will have to replicate whatever the super class does in its main
06:17	pepijndevos	what?! why?
06:17	clgv	pepijndevos: since its a static method
06:18	pepijndevos	so?
06:18	clgv	pepijndevos: you want to run it with your derived class right?
06:18	pepijndevos	yes
06:18	clgv	so actually you are trying to extens dome features of that CommunityNeoServer?
06:18	clgv	*extend
06:19	pepijndevos	no, just providing a different config
06:19	pepijndevos	http://components.neo4j.org/neo4j-server/milestone/apidocs/org/neo4j/server/CommunityBootstrapper.html
06:19	pepijndevos	like this https://github.com/jexp/neo4j-in-memory-server/blob/master/src/main/java/org/neo4j/server/inmemory/InMemoryBootstrapper.java
06:19	clgv	pepijndevos: ok. so what exactly does that predefined main do and how would you use it in java?
06:20	clgv	forget the java. how would you use it?
06:20	danielcompton	Glenjamin mange amalloy Here's the results https://gist.github.com/danielcompton/4b1a59054a40a89c19ec the TreeMap was 4-5 times faster than a map, sorted-map or avl
06:20	pepijndevos	I don't know... it starts the server. I just want to do what it did... start the server, but instead use my method to create the server instance.
06:21	clgv	pepijndevos: (CommunityNeoServer/-main "my" "args" ...) will run that main
06:21	clgv	pepijndevos: if you cant specify the actual server class via configuration that will not work
06:22	pepijndevos	I don't get it... why can't I subclass the bootstrapper, overwrite a method and call the inherited main?
06:22	clgv	pepijndevos: because static methods are not inherited
06:23	clgv	they are just static. method of the class instead of methods of an object instance
06:23	pepijndevos	but it is listed here as an inherited method http://components.neo4j.org/neo4j-server/milestone/apidocs/org/neo4j/server/CommunityBootstrapper.html
06:23	clgv	but it is also listed as static
06:24	clgv	if they didnt change java 8 significantly there is no inheritance for static methods
06:25	pepijndevos	grmph....
06:26	pepijndevos	ahaha, main actually calls start
06:26	pepijndevos	http://grepcode.com/file/repo1.maven.org/maven2/org.neo4j.app/neo4j-server/1.7.2/org/neo4j/server/Bootstrapper.java#Bootstrapper.main%28java.lang.String[]%29
06:27	clgv	pepijndevos: he well, then you could have saved some time ;)
06:29	pepijndevos	aaaarg.... but my problem still exists
06:30	pepijndevos	org.apache.commons.configuration.ConfigurationException: Cannot load a configuration from a directory
06:30	clgv	sounds like wrong parameter or something
06:31	pepijndevos	yea...
06:32	pepijndevos	i'm just not 100% certain where it's getting its config from, so I created that subclass to explicitly give it a config.
06:32	pepijndevos	but it's still looking in the wrong places it seems
06:36	pepijndevos	anyway, thanks for the help
06:38	martinklepsch	when I start a very long running function from the repl is there a way to put that in the background (kind of like detaching it from the repl)?
06:45	Glenjamin	you can run it with (future)
06:47	clgv	martinklepsch: yes, future is the way to go
06:48	martinklepsch	so when I run (future (pmap ...)) on a remote repl and then disconnect it'll continue to run?
06:48	martinklepsch	I also thought that future would work but I thought it might be bound the the repl session
06:50	Glenjamin	erm, you'll have no way to get the result value unless you (def) it i think
06:50	Glenjamin	but it should probably keep running
06:51	Glenjamin	not sure if GC would kick in
07:02	clgv	martinklepsch: as Glenjamin said you need to bind that future to a variable otherwise its result will be lost
07:45	martinklepsch	Glenjamin, clgv, if I bind that to a var and then end the repl session, wont that var be lost?
07:48	clgv	martinklepsch: no, if the REPL process is not shotdown that will work
07:49	clgv	"shot down" :P
07:51	martinklepsch	clgv, ok so if I start the remote repl using tools.nrepl.server I should be good to go I gues
07:51	martinklepsch	that's cool then. thanks!
07:51	clgv	it is also pretty easy to try ;)
08:06	Glenjamin	lein repl :headless
08:06	Glenjamin	lein repl :connect
08:06	Glenjamin	if you disconnect but leave the headless one running, you can acheive what you describe
08:09	clgv	Glenjamin: I think he is going to embed an nrepl in his application
08:10	mskoud	running a Clojure server this this project alias :aliases {"up" ["pdo" "cljsbuild" "auto" "dev," "ring" "server-headless"]}. But print does not show up on the console. Or rather, there are no repl, so no output. How can i start this with a repl?
08:14	phillord	Is there anyway to have Clojure generate a static data member -- I need a single, unchanging value which I can access as fast as possible -- In java, I'd use a static final public. Not sure how to replicate this in Clojure
08:15	opqdonut	(def +constant+ 17)
08:15	opqdonut	now that :dynamic is no longer the default for vars, vars like that are pretty fast
08:16	Bronsa	you can use (def ^:const my-constant 23)
08:16	Bronsa	this way it will get inlined
08:16	opqdonut	oh right, there's that too
08:16	opqdonut	and a type hint is probably apropos if the value is an object
08:17	phillord	I'm finding about a 4x difference between accessing a static final in java and accessing a var
08:18	opqdonut	did you try :const?
08:18	phillord	working on that
08:18	phillord	benchmarks take a while:-)
08:19	opqdonut	and if you're doing something _with_ the value, type hints will help. a java field is typed so there's no reflection going on as opposed to the value of a var
08:19	phillord	ok, will test both of these
08:20	opqdonut	are you using warn-on-reflection btw?
08:20	opqdonut	if you're optimizing clojure code it's the first thing to do
08:26	phillord	curiously, :const causes an AbstractMethodError -- rather unexpected
08:26	clgv	phillord: ^:const is the way to go here ^^
08:31	phillord	ah, okay, so worked out the abstract method error -- not quite sure how ^:const is working, but it calls "count" on the object and I haven't implemented it, hence the abstract method error.
08:32	phillord	which is a bit worrying because I wonder what it is going to inline -- well I guess I need to read the compiler code to find out
08:36	justin_smith	phillord: :const only works for primitive types
08:37	justin_smith	not objects
08:39	phillord	really?
08:40	phillord	I'm struggling to find the documentation for :const
08:52	clgv	phillord: http://clojure-doc.org/articles/language/namespaces.html#constant-vars
08:52	clgv	not much there though
08:58	phillord	no, that doesn't describe anything at all! Well, if all else fails, write some code and decompile it!
09:02	clgv	phillord: usually you get a "can not embed in code" exception when you specify :const for the wrong value
09:04	phillord	I am guessing it works with lists and such like
09:05	phillord	yep -- so lists get inlined to a specific implementation
09:05	phillord	public final class core$const_string_list extends AFunction
09:05	phillord	{
09:05	phillord	public static final AFn const__0;
09:05	phillord
09:05	phillord	static {
09:05	phillord	const__0 = (AFn)RT.vector(new Object[] { "const-list-elem" });
09:05	phillord	}
09:05	phillord
09:05	phillord	public Object invoke() {
09:05	phillord	return core$const_string_list.const__0;
09:05	phillord	}
09:05	phillord	}
09:06	phillord	okay, well, now I know how it works anyway! Not what I need, unfortunately
09:09	Bronsa	phillord: next time use a pastebin please
09:10	phillord	realised that after I had done it
09:10	beamso	has anyone done the basic om tutorial lately?
09:11	beamso	when rendering the first list, i was expecting a ul with 4 li childen. i'm getting a ul with the single child
09:11	clgv	phillord: it works for clojure values that have literal representations I guess
09:12	phillord	yep, but it doesn't preserve type, it would appear -- it's using a vector above, but in clojure it's a list
09:12	Bronsa	phillord: I'm curious btw, what decompiler did you use?
09:12	phillord	procyon
09:12	phillord	https://bitbucket.org/mstrobel/procyon/wiki/Java%20Decompiler
09:13	phillord	I've run it over clojure.core and my own library (tawny.owl) and it does both just fine. I haven't found anyother which doesn't crash
09:13	phillord	I should write a lein plugin at some point, come to think of it
09:14	Bronsa	phillord: hmm, really? we were just talking about it a few weeks ago, clojure produces some bytecode that's not possible to translate to java
09:15	Bronsa	I guess I'll try and see how it deals with that
09:15	phillord	Oh, it's possible to translate into Java just fine
09:15	phillord	it just wont run correctly
09:16	phillord	it's not the bytecodes anyway -- Clojure pushes locals onto the stack, then deletes the locals, then pops their values of the stack
09:17	phillord	there's no way to access the stack in Java, which is why it doesn't work. But if you just want to read the Java, rather than the javap byte code translator, it's fine.
09:19	clgv	phillord: you can use luyten as procyon frontend
09:19	clgv	though the latest and best has no release last time I checked
09:20	phillord	more interested in just producing a dump of Java files, to be honest -- it's what I normally do
09:59	quizdr	is it possible to provide a defaults map for nested map destructuring? For example, I get nil for this: (let [{{g :a h :b} :hhh :or {g 666 h 777}} m] [h]) -- assume map "m" does not have a key :hhh
10:02	justin_smith	,(let [{{g :a h :b :or {g 666 h 777}} :hhh } {}] [h]) quizdr
10:02	clojurebot	[777]
10:02	justin_smith	you just need to put the :or in the right place
10:02	quizdr	ah, the :or goes on the same "level" as the variable you are defining
10:02	justin_smith	the binding of :h parallel to :hhh is not the same as the one inside it
10:03	justin_smith	because having both keys present would be valid, and you need to be able to bind either
10:03	quizdr	right, got it
10:03	quizdr	(inc justin_smith)
10:03	lazybot	⇒ 43
10:03	justin_smith	also, pedantry, it's not a "variable" :) it's a binding
10:03	quizdr	i knew that as I was typing it, but couldn't remember the proper term.
10:03	quizdr	was hoping no one would notice, but I should know better than to expect that in this room :)
10:04	justin_smith	np, like I said, it's a pedantic point, but the more we use the right terms, the less often people try to do things like use def to update values inside a let :)
10:04	quizdr	now, to be fair, I've seen many cases of top level lets having defn or def, so that many functions could share the same closure.
10:04	quizdr	what do you think?
10:05	quizdr	(let [...] (defn ...) (defn ...) etc...)
10:05	justin_smith	quizdr: that's usually a sign someone has scheme experience
10:06	justin_smith	clojure's community tends to be fairly anti-information-hiding
10:06	quizdr	it's quite nifty, also helpful to put defn inside a macro to create many named functions based on certain runtime details
10:06	justin_smith	it's possible, and in those cases you are actually messing with variables
10:07	justin_smith	the distinction I was trying to make was bindings vs. vars
10:07	trap_exit	what is the down side of using _keyword arguments_ for all functions?
10:07	justin_smith	trap_exit: they don't compose as well as opts maps do
10:07	trap_exit	i.e. instead of (defn foo [cat dog blah] ... ) we do (defn foo [{:keys cat dog blah}] ... ) ?
10:07	quizdr	justin_smith understand
10:07	trap_exit	justin_smith: can you explain in more detail?
10:07	trap_exit	justin_smith: how do they not compose ?
10:08	justin_smith	oh, that is an opts map
10:08	trap_exit	oh sorry
10:08	trap_exit	I am confusing terms.
10:08	justin_smith	I thought you meant the [& {:keys [...]}] thing
10:08	trap_exit	What is the downside of using opts maps for everything?
10:09	quizdr	trap_exit are you asking the downside versus say variable arity to define "optional" parameters?
10:09	justin_smith	trap_exit: some extra gc churn, and less clarity about missing args at runtime (nils instead of wrong arg count error)
10:09	justin_smith	also you end up with a bunch of calls to merge replacing partial
10:10	justin_smith	I think it's a little uglier too
10:10	justin_smith	also, it prevents the arg-count polymorphism that clojure would do for you otherwise
10:11	pbw	If I have a function that produces an infinite lazy seq from an integer argument - (repeat n) for example, and a vector of integers, say (def ints [1 2 3]), how can I create a corresponding vector of references to the lazy seqs?
10:11	quizdr	justin_smith do you generally advocate multiple aririty instead unless a specific reason exists?
10:11	trap_exit	quizdr, justin_smith: no, not about optinal arguments
10:11	trap_exit	I mean for all arguments, I don't want to do [arg1-name arg2-name arg3-name] ...
10:11	trap_exit	and instead do {:arg1-name ... :arg2-name ... .:arg3-name ... }
10:11	justin_smith	trap_exit: understood - just saying that this eliminates the helpfulness of multiple arity overloading
10:11	trap_exit	basically to force myself to remember the names of arguments instead of the order
10:12	trap_exit	justin_smith: hmm, I've actually never used that feature
10:12	trap_exit	justin_smith: but now that you mention it, I suddenly find it useful
10:12	trap_exit	i.e. a helper "iterative" version of a function togerhe with the real function
10:12	trap_exit	i.e. (reverse lst) (reverse lst iter-results) ... rather than reverse + reverse-helper
10:12	trap_exit	cemerick : !
10:12	justin_smith	it is often used for the (recur) using impl, or for optional arguments
10:13	quizdr	trap_exit no need to remember the name or order of args if your code editor shows you the format of the function arguments as you right them (i.e. emacs typically does)
10:13	trap_exit	quizdr: true
10:14	justin_smith	quizdr: now if emacs showed you the arg destructuring, it would make an args map at least as convenient I guess
10:15	justin_smith	though you probably do not want to be using args maps inside tight loops
10:16	peterdon`	,(#(case % 1 true false) 1) ; is it possible to prevent magic numbers in a case form?
10:16	clojurebot	true
10:16	peterdon`	I would like to write something like (#(case % any-constant-symbol-with-value-1 true false) 1)
10:17	quizdr	justin_smith yes, hence why one would not have that advantage over the other
10:22	justin_smith	peterdon`: if it was :const I could imagine that being possible - dunno if it is currently supported though
10:23	peterdon`	I tried this: (def ^:const any-constant-symbol-with-value-1 1)
10:23	peterdon`	..doesn't work'
10:24	justin_smith	,(do (def ^:const x 44) (case 44 x true false))
10:24	clojurebot	false
10:24	justin_smith	peterdon`: I think the trick is that at the time that case is compiled the value must be bound
10:26	peterdon`	justin_smith: it looks like there are no real constants in Clojure
10:27	justin_smith	peterdon`: no, not quite I don't think - I just tried my above without the ^:const and it still worked - it's just that the value has to be resolvable at compile time I think
10:27	peterdon`	justin_smith: I would assume that the result is true
10:28	justin_smith	oh crap, there's that too :)
10:28	justin_smith	,(do (def ^:const x 44) (case 'x x true false))
10:28	clojurebot	true
10:29	justin_smith	haha, it is just matching on the symbol x
10:29	justin_smith	don't mind me...
10:29	cbp	is const actually documented anywhere
10:30	cbp	it's not in here http://clojure.org/special_forms#def
10:32	phillord	I looked for :const documentation earlier -- couldn't find it
10:35	justin_smith	phillord: consider that (defmacro +my-magic-number+ [] 42) causes calls to (+my-magic-number+) to be resolved at compile time
10:36	justin_smith	it's a hack, but it does do the right thing (except I think case needs resolution at read time, which is hard / weird)
10:38	peterdon`	so I should probably use cond instead of case
10:39	clgv	peterdon`: case needs compile time constants. symbols are not resolved
10:40	agarman	,(do (def ^:const x 44) (case x 44 true false))
10:40	clojurebot	true
10:40	agarman	nvm me
10:42	cbp	ah so :const removes the call to getRawRoot
10:42	agarman	yes
10:43	cbp	,(do (def ^:const x 1) (defn foo [] (inc x)) (print (foo)) (def x 2) (print (foo) x))
10:43	clojurebot	22 2
10:45	justin_smith	,(do (def ^:const x 1) (defn foo [] (inc x)) (println (foo)) (def x 2) (println (foo) x)) slightly clearer imho
10:45	clojurebot	2\n2 2\n
10:46	justin_smith	cbp: so what happens there is the new def replaces the old one for new resolution, but foo still sees the old x
10:47	justin_smith	correct?
10:47	cbp	yes
10:50	martinkl_	is there some convention in naming lazy/non-lazy things?
10:51	waynr	martinkl_: don't know off top of my head but you might find an answer here https://github.com/bbatsov/clojure-style-guide
11:01	stuartsierra	martinkl_: In Clojure itself, there is no convertion, but in general anything that can be lazy is lazy.
11:07	phillord	there is an anti convention -- anything with "do" is not lazy:-)
11:13	phillord	So, consider this code -- http://pastebin.com/1Zmf8iSH -- In my hands, the former is 4x faster than the later
11:14	phillord	Now, I could achieve parity here by creating a dump piece of Java code with a static final data member and I'd be away
11:15	phillord	but I don't think I can do this in Clojure
11:17	clgv	phillord: well call of a static property versus a variable deref. try (let [o System/out] (bench o)) ;)
11:18	justin_smith	the solution: define everything inside a giant let block!
11:18	phillord	exactly, that would work well
11:19	justin_smith	of course this would cause annoyance if you wanted to change bindings at runtime - but then they shouldn't be const, should they
11:19	clgv	phillord: is system/out really a proper example for the kind of constants you want?
11:20	cbp	println is too slow for us!
11:20	phillord	example no, it's just a handy static final constant in Java
11:21	phillord	I presume that it gets inlined at JIT so returning System/out is about as fast as it gets
11:22	phillord	exemplar in the sense that yes it's something without a necessary read syntax -- I can't just inline at compile time
11:22	phillord	and :const doesn't work for that reason and for another
11:23	phillord	it's not that important -- after all, what's a few nanoseconds between friends...
11:26	clgv	phillord: I mostly needed constants for numbers and such which worked well with ^:const
11:35	phillord	In my case, I need it for an empty data structure -- and I am at a disadvantage, because clojure.core cheats:-)
11:36	phillord	ah well, I will worry about it tomorrow!
11:41	xcthulhu	Hey! I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with using trapperkeeper and compojure, and could give me some advice about which to use?
11:44	vilmibm	xcthulhu: they work together.
11:44	vilmibm	if that's what you want.
11:44	xcthulhu	Oh, sweet
11:45	xcthulhu	I’ll just use compojure then until my app gets complicated enough to need trapperkeeper
11:45	vilmibm	you can make a compojure app and then use (add-ring-handler) to register it :)
11:45	vilmibm	sure. on its own trapperkeeper is just the service framework + some high level services
11:46	vilmibm	you definitely want something like compojure to actually create your routes, and then use add-ring-handler to hang them off a context path (which might just be "/")
12:03	{blake}	OK, I have a collection of (a (b c) (c b)) (b (a c) (c a)), etc., and I want to turn this into ((a b c)(a c b)(b a c)(b c a)...(etc). I know there's an easy way to do this but I've forgotten what it is.
12:04	ssideris	you mean flatten?
12:04	justin_smith	definitely not flatten
12:04	{blake}	No. Take the first element and concat it with the nested collections.
12:05	{blake}	I thought there was an easy way to do it. I mean, like, a built-in function.
12:05	{blake}	Or a slight variant on a built-in. But i guess that describes nearly everything in Clojure.
12:06	justin_smith	,(for [[prefix & suffixes] '((a (b c) (c b)) (b (a c) (c a))) suffix suffixes] (conj suffix prefix))
12:06	clojurebot	((a b c) (a c b) (b a c) (b c a))
12:07	ssideris	oh ok
12:07	{blake}	justin_smith: I was trying to avoid "for". =P
12:08	justin_smith	{blake}: maybe there is something awesome in a lib like flatland/usefull
12:08	{blake}	(I'm doing a permutations thing and "haven't learned" for yet. So if I can use "for" my solution doesn't make sense.)
12:08	justin_smith	but if you don't find it, there is that
12:09	justin_smith	a for can be translated into nested maps
12:09	hiredman	mapcats
12:09	justin_smith	oh, yeah, right :)
12:09	{blake}	justin_smith: Ah!!! Yeah...that's what I gotta grasp.
12:10	{blake}	mapcat...
12:10	{blake}	Two collections? First and rest?
12:11	justin_smith	(mapcat (fn [[p & s]] (map #(conj % p) s)) '((a (b c) (c b)) (b (a c) (c a)))) the translation
12:11	justin_smith	,(mapcat (fn [[p & s]] (map #(conj % p) s)) '((a (b c) (c b)) (b (a c) (c a)))) oops
12:11	clojurebot	((a b c) (a c b) (b a c) (b c a))
12:13	CookedGryphon	So I just upgraded to the latest core.async, and I've found a load of places where I hadn't actually imported <!.... but it was working anyway without any errors or issues at runtime
12:13	CookedGryphon	what's that about?
12:13	CookedGryphon	(and the newest core.async correctly reports them as errors where it didn't before)
12:13	justin_smith	CookedGryphon: maybe because of the way the go macro expands what is inside it?
12:13	justin_smith	it does some complex stuff
12:14	CookedGryphon	must be, but I'm sure I saw some errors where I hadn't imported it before...
12:14	{blake}	Thanks, guys!
12:15	ghadishayban	CookedGryphon: latest core.async relies on a different analyzer and gives better error reporting in general (line numbers, etc)
12:16	CookedGryphon	yeah, i get that, but what was going on before to make it work at all, and why wasn't it causing any other issues
12:17	ghadishayban	lots of magic
12:18	ghadishayban	we used to treat <! >! exceptionally
12:19	ghadishayban	dnolen_: i have basic feature expressions working on CLJ side with a read-suppress thing for unreadable forms.
12:19	ghadishayban	dnolen_: working on updating r0man's cljs patch to do the same
12:20	dnolen_	ghadishayban: cool!
12:20	CookedGryphon	ghadishayban: fair enough, it's nice to have decent error messages back. Turns out I wasn't recuring from a tail position in about 80% of cases...
12:21	ssideris	wow, does that mean that features are coming soon?
12:22	ssideris	although cljx is much better than it used to be
12:23	ghadishayban	ssideris: i'll be put it in JIRA and the rest is up to the process
12:24	CookedGryphon	is this going to be a cljs only thing? Or more general. For example I am currently using cljx to compile alternative function versions for jvm java vs android vs clojurescript
12:24	ghadishayban	seems like discussion about approaches hasn't been terribly active lately, so I'll take the path of least resistance
12:25	ghadishayban	integrated into the reader (both CLJ + CLJS, maybe tools.reader), basically duplicating Common Lisp feature exprs
12:26	CookedGryphon	sounds good, will the features be pre-defined, or arbitrary? If so, how do you select which features to include
12:26	ghadishayban	patch looks like #+clojure :foo #+clojurescript :foojs
12:26	ghadishayban	environment will bind a set
12:27	CookedGryphon	sounds perfect, and like it would be a drop in replacement for cljx more or less (if you're not using the function transformation feature)
12:28	ghadishayban	r0man did all the heavy lifting, just added handling of forms like #+clojurescript #js {:what :ever} not bombing when read in an env not supporting the tagged literals
12:38	CookedGryphon	is there a way to do global dependency excludes?
12:39	CookedGryphon	i.e. almost all my libraries depend on some version of clojure or other, but clojure-android depends on clojure-jb instead
12:39	CookedGryphon	how do i stop the other things bringing in their own version without putting an exclude on each of them
12:42	CookedGryphon	never mind, found it, just :exclusions at the top level
12:44	ampharmex	<ampharmex> here is a challenge I devised: given 7 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 5 6 7 3 4 2 4 5 8 7 = 476 Goal: find out what mathematical operators (minus, multiply, divide, add) satisfy that solution (476)
12:44	ampharmex	<ampharmex> Order of operation is variable.
12:44	ampharmex	<ampharmex> 4^18 * 18! is a non optimal approach.
12:44	ampharmex	<ampharmex> Some example output:
12:44	ampharmex	<ampharmex> (7 + (9 + (8 + (7 + (6 + (5 + (4 + (3 + (2 + (5 + (6 + (7 + (3 - (4 + (2 * (4 * (5 - (8 * 7)))))))))))))))))) = 476
12:44	ampharmex	<ampharmex> A dynamic programming approach may suffice.
12:44	ampharmex	<ampharmex> e.g dp[i][j][k] = Can I make the number k using the numbers a[i ... j].
12:45	technomancy	ampharmex: use a for comprehension to express every possible combination plus a :when clause for what it needs to evaluate to, then just take the first element of that seq
12:46	ampharmex	technomancy, If I want to make X with the numbers A[i ... j], then I find a position v such that A[i ... v - 1] can make Y, A[v ... j] can make Y', and either Y + Y', Y * Y', Y - Y', or Y / Y' is equal to X.
12:46	ihodes	technomancy: hmm, that's pretty complex… just with + - / * you get a quarter of a trillion things to try, no?
12:47	ihodes	with that particular sequence
12:47	technomancy	ihodes: I was thinking of how to do it in a one-liner =)
12:48	ampharmex	That is how you compute A[i][j][X].
12:48	technomancy	maybe mapreduce it over a cluster if you need an answer promptly, you know
12:48	ampharmex	If you want to find some sequence that does, then in A[i][j][X] you store the position at which you split (v) and the operator you chose.
12:49	ampharmex	_Every_ expression that you can form using the numbers in A[i ... j] is of the form (Y) op (Y'), where Y is an expression obtained from A[i ... v - 1], Y' is an expression obtained from A[v ... j], and op is either +, -, *, or /.
12:49	ampharmex	If I'm trying to find several, I'll store the several v, but that (since the number of answers is already exponential) will be exponential in space and time. :)
12:53	eraserhd	Is there a persistent vector-like collection that has a decent `splice`? e.g. insert-element(s) / remove-element(s)
12:54	eraserhd	"decent" meaning sub-linear.
12:55	BobSchack	eraserhd I think this is what you want https://github.com/clojure/core.rrb-vector
12:56	justin_smith	eraserhd: some kind of persistent redblack tree?
12:56	justin_smith	BobSchack: jynx, and you actually had the sauce
12:56	justin_smith	(inc BobSchack)
12:56	lazybot	⇒ 1
12:56	BobSchack	wooo!
12:56	eraserhd	BobSchack, justin_smith: Thanks!
12:57	ampharmex	technomancy, a 1 liner? :o
13:03	technomancy	ampharmex: (first (for [ops (permutations [+ - * /] (count numbers)) :when (= x (reduce (fn [v [n o]] (o v n)) 0 (map vector numbers ops)))] ops))
13:03	ampharmex	technomancy, does it work?
13:03	technomancy	no
13:04	technomancy	but something a lot like it probably would
13:04	technomancy	you have to get permutations from a contrib lib or something; dunno if that's cheating
13:04	bjeanes	wrote first clojure in like 8 months
13:04	bjeanes	man i miss it
13:05	technomancy	bjeanes: oh, what'd you write?
13:05	bjeanes	a half-functional OAuth1 workflow for Friend
13:06	bjeanes	because Trello does OAuth1 (but very very very badly)
13:06	technomancy	cool
13:06	bjeanes	it's half-functional because Trello doesn't look at or even care if you signed your messages
13:06	bjeanes	because... computers.
13:07	ampharmex	technomancy, is it a dynamic programming solution?
13:08	ampharmex	technomancy, have you tested it?
13:08	technomancy	ampharmex: not sure what the strict definition is. it just defines the search space using a lazy seq and picks the first matching element.
13:08	technomancy	I haven't tested it or seen whether it even compiles
13:09	ampharmex	technomancy, dp[i][j][k] = Can I make the number k using the numbers a[i ... j].
13:09	ampharmex	technomancy, The code is the usual dynamic programming solution, with a range of [-500, 1000]
13:28	Glenjamin	bjeanes: that sounds crazy, did you report it to them?
13:29	bjeanes	i tweeted at them last night
13:29	bjeanes	but i found this out at like 1am
13:29	bjeanes	so i went to bed roughly exactly after that in case I was insane
13:29	Glenjamin	heh
13:30	bjeanes	really their API is not OAuth... they just use part of OAuth1 to send you a token back
13:30	Glenjamin	i've done oauth1 via clj-oauth, but not with friend
13:30	bjeanes	then you just use your app key and their raw token in the query string
13:30	Glenjamin	ah
13:30	bjeanes	and boom authenticated
13:30	bjeanes	Glenjamin: yeah I am using clj-oauth internally
13:32	bjeanes	I never needed to use https://github.com/mattrepl/clj-oauth/blob/master/src/oauth/client.clj#L77 to authenticate against Trello
13:32	bjeanes	#lol
13:37	technomancy	"OAuth-inspired API product"
13:40	TimMc	"Inspired by a true API"
13:40	TimMc	"Made with real OAuth"
13:41	stompyj	“Now with extra OAuth"
13:41	bjeanes	hah
13:41	bjeanes	their api has made more than a few questionable decisions
13:41	technomancy	I was thinking along the lines of "cheese-inspired food product"
13:41	bjeanes	well... the api didn't make the decisions
13:42	bjeanes	technomancy: now I really want a grilled cheese sandwich. thanks.
13:42	TimMc	cheese-food-product
13:42	Glenjamin	bjeanes: as i understand it, the web ui only interacts via the api
13:43	Glenjamin	and they keep back-compat
13:44	TimMc	I can't believe I used to eat Kraft singles.
13:44	bjeanes	I believe that is the case. Web UI powered by API is a good way to dog food I guess
13:44	bjeanes	it also means that their API allows auth with sessions
13:44	bjeanes	which is questionable
13:44	TimMc	(Note the entire lack of the word "cheese" in the branding.)
13:45	justin_smith	TimMc: "cheese food product"
13:46	justin_smith	kind of like how php is a "language interpreter program" - just calling it a language would be giving it too much credit
13:47	bjeanes	aren't all interpreters language interpreter programs?
13:47	gtrak	java is a DSL for turning XML into stacktraces.
13:48	justin_smith	bjeanes: well there are defined languages as such, I guess how defined they are can be a little fuzzy
13:49	arrdem	gtrak: haha
13:50	justin_smith	bjeanes: the interpreter for php is basically a bunch of imperative steps that run as they read tokens from the file, there is no parser or grammar or whatever (theoretically there is one, but it is complected with the execution)
13:50	justin_smith	bjeanes: anywya, I was mostly just making a joke
13:50	bjeanes	heh
14:10	bridgethillyer	I have a question from the book Clojure Programming. In Chapter 3 on Collections, there is this note:
14:11	bridgethillyer	“NOTE: Your own functions will get this behavior for free if you are building them on top of others’ sequence functions. If you use lazy-seq then it is your responsibility to call seq on your arguments to maintain this convenient characteristic of seq.”
14:12	bridgethillyer	I think I’m having a reading comprehension problem
14:12	bridgethillyer	Does this mean I have to call seq on things I’m passing to lazy-seq?
14:13	Jaood	bridgethillyer: it means some functions calls seq on their arguments
14:14	Jaood	bridgethillyer: and return a lazy-seq for you
14:14	technomancy	needing to call lazy-seq directly is extremely rare
14:14	technomancy	I'm surprised it's mentioned that early in the book
14:15	bridgethillyer	Well, it’s a “Note,” so it’s not central to the point there
14:15	Jaood	bridgethillyer: take a HoF like map for example, it will call seq on the automatically for you
14:16	Jaood	*on the collection
14:16	llasram	bridgethillyer: What's the "this behavior" the note refers to?
14:16	Jaood	that's what you get for free I guess
14:17	bridgethillyer	jaood: That makes sense. I can see in the map implementation where it calls seq on the coll argument
14:19	bridgethillyer	llasram: The behavior is basically what jaood just described - some functions call seq on their arguments, so that, for example, you can use a String with map
14:19	ambrosebs	Bronsa: how do I get the line/col number of the left hand side of a :let binding?
14:21	Bronsa	ambrosebs: you mean line/col of (let [>this< init] ..) ?
14:21	ambrosebs	yes
14:21	ambrosebs	a :binding rather
14:21	Bronsa	uhm it should be in :env as always
14:22	arrdem	yeah if it exists should be in env... doesn't look like :binding has an associated meta.
14:22	ambrosebs	ok, seems like a :binding inherits the same coordinates as the :let
14:22	arrdem	Bronsa: silly patches incoming, I noticed some English typos in reading t.a
14:23	arrdem	ambrosebs: yep, that's the intended behavior
14:23	bridgethillyer	I’m still confused about what the Note is telling me to do when I call lazy-seq (which I would rarely do - thanks technomancy)
14:23	Bronsa	arrdem: ouch
14:24	Bronsa	ambrosebs: you mean it has the same line/column info of the outer let expression? that shouldn't be the case
14:24	arrdem	Bronsa: shrug. it's like two typos. no big deal.
14:24	ambrosebs	Bronsa: ok, I'll play a little more.
14:25	amalloy	bridgethillyer: what behavior is the book saying you'll get for free? it's hard to answer otherwise
14:25	Bronsa	ambrosebs: I'm assuming the form is read by tools.reader btw, no idea what happens with line/column info when read from the repl
14:25	arrdem	Bronsa: do you have a favorite way to play with t.a trees? I'm using folding and a 10kline clojure mode buffer atm and while it works it's a bit of a mess.
14:26	bridgethillyer	The behavior it refers to (if I’m reading it correctly) is that some functions call seq on their arguments, so that, for example, you can use a String with map
14:26	Bronsa	arrdem: I've got `:injections [(set! print-level 10) (set! print-length 10)]` in my profiles.clj.
14:26	amalloy	i think you can completely ignore that note. you'd have to try very hard to not do what it seems to be suggesting
14:27	Bronsa	arrdem: then I just (-> ast :node :inner-node whatever ..) to explore it
14:27	bridgethillyer	amalloy: Ok, thanks. That’s my gut read of it. I just thought there might be something I was missing.
14:28	amalloy	you can always ask cemerick. clojure programming is his, right?
14:29	bridgethillyer	Good point. Ask for some book support.
14:29	ambrosebs	Bronsa: ah no not using tools.reader here.
14:29	cemerick	bridgethillyer: feel free to shoot me an email
14:30	arrdem	Bronsa: setting print bounds is a good idea... I wound up hacking the print-method of atoms so that I can actually pprint the entire tree without killing Cider
14:30	bridgethillyer	cemerick: will do
14:30	cemerick	bridgethillyer: hi, BTW :-)
14:30	bridgethillyer	cemerick: hi back at you
14:32	Bronsa	arrdem: yeah, I remembered about print-level/length only after killing slime/emacs one too many times
14:34	Bronsa	ambrosebs: that's probably it. the source-info pass just tries to find line/column info on the :form's meta or defaults to the outer node info
14:34	ambrosebs	Bronsa: I was trying to avoid creating a file to test this stuff out of laziness.
14:36	Bronsa	,(-> '(let [a 1]) second first meta)
14:36	clojurebot	nil
14:36	ambrosebs	Bronsa: works perfectly with t.reader
14:36	ambrosebs	thans
14:36	ambrosebs	thanks
14:38	ambrosebs	I'm spitting out a map of file coordinates to types.
14:38	ambrosebs	works great
14:38	Bronsa	ambrosebs: you can use (comp t.r/read-string t.r.rt/indexing-push-back-reader print-str) if you don't want to use a fileI guess
14:38	ambrosebs	Bronsa: sweet, hoping you had a snippet.
14:40	sdegutis	Is there an alternative to doing (#'my-function) in order for changes made while my server is running to take effect without restarting it?
14:41	amalloy	Bronsa: i've never had to use print-level/print-depth in slime: C-c C-c generally succeeds in aborting an overlarge print, i think
14:41	sdegutis	I'm storing the functions in a map and storing the map in a var using alter-var-root. This is the root of all my problems.
14:42	Bronsa	amalloy: belive me, I panic C-c C-c'ed like a mad man when it happened
14:42	amalloy	hahaha
14:43	ambrosebs	Bronsa: gives me UnsupportedOperationException count not supported on this type: IndexingPushbackReader clojure.lang.RT.countFrom (RT.java:556)
14:43	Bronsa	amalloy: the only thing that worked was killing the jvm, waiting for slime to print all of it and then M-x slime-repl-clear-buffer
14:43	Bronsa	ambrosebs: well I didn't try it :) one sec
14:44	ambrosebs	Bronsa: oh should be tr/read ?
14:44	Bronsa	... yeah sorry
14:44	srruby	How do I sort a vector of vectors of numbers: [ [ 3 2 1] [ 3 0 2] [3 1 2] ---> [ [ 3 0 2] [ 3 1 2] [ 3 2 1]] ?
14:45	Bronsa	user=> (-> ((comp t.r/read t.r.rt/indexing-push-back-reader print-str) '(let [a 1])) second first meta)
14:45	Bronsa	{:end-column 9, :end-line 1, :column 7, :line 1}
14:45	Bronsa	ambrosebs: yep ^
14:45	ambrosebs	Bronsa: I tried core/read which confused me further :)
14:45	ambrosebs	nice!
14:46	dbasch	srruby: do you want to sort them as if they represented decimal numbers?
14:47	srruby	dbash: No. I want a multi-level sort. First level by first item, etc
14:47	dbasch	srruby: so essentially yes :)
14:47	srruby	dbasch: OK. :)
14:48	dbasch	srruby: one easy way: create a function to-decimal like this
14:48	amalloy	aren't vectors comparable to each other? you should just be able to call sort
14:48	llasram	Yeah
14:48	llasram	,(sort [ [ 3 2 1] [ 3 0 2] [3 1 2]])
14:48	clojurebot	([3 0 2] [3 1 2] [3 2 1])
14:49	llasram	Not sure what the problem is?
14:49	amalloy	it won't work if you have lists instead, or if your vectors aren't all the same length
14:49	llasram	There is some (IMHO) weirdness that they sort by length first
14:49	srruby	Thanks all!
14:49	sdegutis	Is this going to be a negative performance hit?
14:49	sdegutis	Or in some other way will it be very dangerous?
14:50	dbasch	srruby: yeah, if they are all the same length you’re set
14:50	sdegutis	I am doing this: {:delete #'my-delete, :create #'my-create, :read #'my-read} and then later I do ((:create my-map) arg1 arg2).
14:51	sdegutis	This way when I reload the web server, it sees my changes.
14:51	srruby	dbasch: What threw me is that I tried (sort > [ [ 3 2 1] [ 3 0 2] [3 1 2]]) and I got an error
14:51	dbasch	they are not numbers
14:52	dbasch	srruby: let sort use compare instead of providing a function
14:52	amalloy	right, if you wanted to sort them in backwards order (ie, the order > would use), you can use (comp - compare)
14:52	amalloy	since compare is the default comparator, and if you negate it you get the opposite ordering
14:53	sdegutis	I want to stop storing them in a map, but they represent a third party service (i.e. Stripe).
14:53	sdegutis	You see? I want to hot-swap them out at init-time and test-time. That's the reason they're grouped together in a var.
14:54	sdegutis	Changing this to an object with real methods will not make any difference: this object is stored in the var instead.
14:55	arrdem	Bronsa: this is guaranteed to be the reach set of vars by definition of the :children vector, right? (->> (ast < forms >) (ast/nodes) (map :var) (filter identity) (into #{}))
14:57	Bronsa	arrdem: yeah. btw (map :var) (filter identity) is (keep :var)
14:57	Jaood	mnb.m,.,mn.
14:58	arrdem	Bronsa: noted. thanks!
14:58	TimMc	Jaood: Cleaning your keyboard?
14:59	arrdem	Bronsa: for generality would you write that as an analyzer pass that creates var reach set metadata on each node recursively upwards?
14:59	arrdem	'cause then it fits with the rest of your passes rather than being some "run at root" weirdness.
15:03	Bronsa	arrdem: meh. either the ast/nodes approach or using a postwalk works just as fine if all you need is the reach set of the analyzed form
15:03	Jaood	TimMc: ;) - was lagging and mistakenly pressed enter and hitting random keys
15:04	Jaood	s/and/after/
15:04	arrdem	Bronsa: kk. probably gonna do it anyway just to use update-children for the first time.
15:04	Bronsa	arrdem: I don't think you need update-children for this
15:06	Bronsa	arrdem: honestly I'd go with the snippet you just pasted, it's going to be shorter than the approach using postwalk/update-children
15:08	sdegutis	What are some alternatives?
15:27	nbeloglazov	technomancy: ping, seems like I did break quil repo on clojars
15:47	dgleeson	anyone in here using cursive? I'm curious if there is an easy way to reload the repl with changes made to the clj files?
15:51	zeeshanlakhani	dgleeson: Tools > REPL > Load file in REPL. and yeah. bind to key for
15:51	zeeshanlakhani	great justice
15:52	Shayanjm	Hi all, completely new to Clojure and trying to dive right in. Wanted to install leiningen via Brew -- am I right in assuming that 2.3.4 is the latest release?
15:53	scottj	Shayanjm: yes, note top of this file https://raw.githubusercontent.com/technomancy/leiningen/stable/bin/lein
15:54	Shayanjm	good call, thanks
15:54	sdegutis	Why was it that the solution to my Clojure problem came from #clojure-social and not #clojure? :P
15:55	gtrak	the offtopic has become on-topic.
15:55	gtrak	we should tell people off-topic if they start talking about clojure too hard.
15:56	AimHere	Or we could just rename this channel #clojure-antisocial and start being nasty to people
15:57	arrdem	for K people and 2 channels what is the optimal distribution of conversations so as to ensure the highest content rate on both channels?
15:59	dgleeson	zeeshanlakhani: weird, that's grayed out for me
16:00	dgleeson	does that mean I don't have something set up correctly?
16:00	dgleeson	oh it's because I didn't have focus on the file correctly
16:00	dgleeson	DOH
16:00	dgleeson	cool!!
16:03	zeeshanlakhani	dgleeson: yay!
16:03	technomancy	nbeloglazov: what's up?
16:04	technomancy	nm; I see the issue
16:11	sdegutis	arrdem: that kinda knowledge gets jobs
16:23	sandbags	Can anyone sign into refheap.com? I'm getting an uncaught ReferenceError in the JS ... is refheap still a thing?
16:23	arrdem	Raynes: ^
16:24	sdegutis	I just use gists
16:24	arrdem	sdegutis is also a terrible person
16:24	sandbags	sdegutis: yeah i could use a gist but i thought it being clojure an all
16:24	arrdem	sandbags: just don't use pastebin and nobody will care
16:25	technomancy	wow, paste.lisp.org is still a thing
16:25	technomancy	it supports haskell but not clojure ._.
16:25	sandbags	well i'm tweeting this so i want a little bit o'class
16:25	arrdem	technomancy: we're not a real lisp, right?
16:25	sdegutis	technomancy: that's all #macdev uses
16:25	sdegutis	don't tell them I sent you
16:26	technomancy	I used to use this for elisp because you could do M-x lisppaste-buffer and a bot would announce it in the #emacs channel
16:26	technomancy	kinda cool
16:26	sdegutis	technomancy: yeah that feature broke a while ago iirc
16:26	technomancy	yeah, which is probably why I haven't seen anyone use it this decade
16:27	technomancy	anyway I only paste using my elisp-powered paste site so there
16:29	sdegutis	Why not write it in Clojure?
16:29	arrdem	sdegutis: you haven't finished your emacs in clojure port, that's why
16:29	technomancy	sdegutis: because elisp is simple yet powerful
16:30	sdegutis	technomancy: boom got em
16:31	arrdem	∀T≠C++ claim T is simple yet powerful
16:32	sdegutis	arrdem: my emacs is written in Lua
16:35	hyPiRion	arrdem: let T be any DSL written on top of C++
16:36	arrdem	hyPiRion: my qualifier should have been more explicit... C++ ⊄ T
16:37	sandbags	i don't know if refheap magically healed itself, or someone answered my cry but it's working again ... thank you clojure gods
16:37	hyPiRion	arrdem: there you go
16:38	arrdem	I suppose it should be ⊈ not
16:38	arrdem	⊄
16:41	scottj	technomancy: does scpaste-region ever not syntax highlight the region for you, when it's highlighted in the buffer?
16:41	technomancy	scottj: haven't seen that
16:41	technomancy	the only problem I've seen is hl-line-mode and idle-highlight showing when they shouldn't
16:41	scottj	technomancy: do you use color-theme.el, that might be it
16:41	technomancy	I used to, but not any more
16:42	scottj	technomancy: ok, no worries I'll let you know if I ever figure it out
16:52	jarosti	(clojure.string/replace "somelatex\nwithnewline" #"\n" "\\newline") -> How do I get a backslash to remain in the result?
16:53	hiredman	,"\\"
16:53	clojurebot	"\\"
16:53	dbasch	,(clojure.string/replace "somelatex\nwithnewline" #"\n" "\\\newline")
16:53	clojurebot	"somelatex\newlinewithnewline"
16:53	hiredman	,"\"
16:53	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string>
16:54	johncash	is there a way to declaratively define base conditions for a loop rather than using if/when? sort of like haskell style.
16:54	technomancy	johncash: core.match I guess
16:55	johncash	ive been on a journey to avoid branching logic where possible
16:55	johncash	technomancy: thnx
16:55	Glenjamin	is there a way to get lein to tell me the profiles and their dependencies? `lein with-profile test repl` leaves me with no nRepl in this project
16:56	technomancy	Glenjamin: unfortunately that's a bit opaque right now
16:56	technomancy	but you probably want `lein with-profile +test repl`
16:56	Glenjamin	i feel vindicated in my confusion at least
16:56	jarosti	dbasch: (print (s/replace "somelatex\nwithnewline" #"\n" "\\\newline\n"))
16:56	jarosti	somelatex
16:56	jarosti	ewline
16:56	jarosti	withnewline
16:56	technomancy	or `lein with-profile base+test repl`
16:57	technomancy	err `lein with-profile base,test repl`
16:57	Glenjamin	i ended up doing with-profile base,dev,user,test :D
16:57	technomancy	same thing, yeah
16:57	Glenjamin	kept guessing until it worked
16:57	Glenjamin	xeqi: are you around at all?
16:57	technomancy	I think a better design would be to allow every task to have two implicit profiles; one provided by the task and one overridable by the user
16:57	technomancy	as long as the mechanism for such a thing is standardized it would allow for much better transparency
16:58	Glenjamin	the + vs , thing seems reasonable
16:58	dbasch	jarosti: maybe you want (clojure.string/replace "somelatex\nwithnewline" #"\n" "\\\\newline")
16:58	xeqi	Glenjamin: surprisingly I am atm, but rarely normally
16:58	jarosti	dbasch: thanx
16:58	Glenjamin	being able to do lein show-profiles :tree might help
16:59	Glenjamin	xeqi: i've pushed a few updates to peridot recently, including passing tests on 1.6
16:59	nullptr	,(clojure.string/replace "x" #"x" "\\")
16:59	clojurebot	#<StringIndexOutOfBoundsException java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException: String index out of range: 1>
16:59	Glenjamin	about to do the same kerodon, including merging some PRs
16:59	technomancy	Glenjamin: most task-specific profiles are not declarative though
16:59	technomancy	which we need to fix
16:59	Glenjamin	will you be able to publish clojar updates soonish?
16:59	johncash	i heard rumour that `use` is deprecated now, is that founded?
16:59	Glenjamin	technomancy: i didn't follow that last bit i'm afraid
17:00	xeqi	Glenjamin: awesome, I can tonight. or you could tell me your clojars name and I can give you permissions
17:00	Glenjamin	glenjamin on clojars, i hope i didn't lose my pgp key :)
17:02	xeqi	Glenjamin: done
17:02	Glenjamin	tyvm
17:02	Glenjamin	are you still using peridot/kerodon at all?
17:03	nullptr	,(clojure.string/replace "x" #"x" (clojure.string/re-quote-replacement "\\")) ; jarosti
17:03	clojurebot	"\\"
17:04	stompyj	is that react petehunt?
17:04	petehunt	yessir
17:04	petehunt	or ma'am
17:04	Glenjamin	technomancy: do you mean that some profiles only work with +profile ?
17:05	stompyj	petehunt: haha, do you guys have a clojure stack @ fb? or just interested in the language?
17:05	technomancy	Glenjamin: no, I mean that some tasks merge profiles inside their defn, which is not introspectable
17:05	Glenjamin	oh
17:06	Glenjamin	i see
17:06	gtrak	their next php compiler is actually a set of clojurescript regexes.
17:06	petehunt	stompyj: no clojure @ fb, but a lot of FP in mainstream languages
17:07	stompyj	petehunt: ahhh ok, very cool. I get pinged by fb recruiters from time to time and if you had clojure, I’d ping back. heh :)
17:07	Glenjamin	gtrak: there actually is a clojure-like lisp that compiles to PHP :o http://pharen.org/
17:07	stompyj	One of the best pieces of steak i’ve had in NYC was @ FB’s offices
17:07	stompyj	heh
17:08	petehunt	stompyj: haha, the food here is excellent
17:08	stompyj	fact
17:08	xeqi	Glenjamin: not really. haven't had much time for clojure recently, and I've been impressed by liberator for api + om/react for ui
17:08	xeqi	so less html, more cljs
17:08	gtrak	oh man.. I'm getting enough edge-cases lately by just trying to learn html, thankfully react/om is a respite.
17:08	dgleeson	So I have a vector, I want to turn it into a formatted string that I will be putting on syslog. I have this https://gist.github.com/whodevil/2b11a1fc21da95bd33f1, but it is returning lazyseq... Any ideas?
17:09	gtrak	amortize pain with occasional good tech, that's my secret to success.
17:09	petehunt	stompyj: yeah no clojure, but hacklang.org is nice
17:10	petehunt	we are probably one of the better “big companies” if you like FP, despite the fact that we don’t use functional languages directly. a lot of the core abstractions are FPish
17:10	dbasch	Linkedin and Twitter do use Clojure
17:10	arrdem	do we have a standard fixed point combinator? I don't remember.
17:11	stompyj	petehunt: very interesting. maybe I will follow up with them at some point
17:11	dbasch	of course Twitter is big on Scala, but that doesn’t mean most people use it in functionaly style
17:11	dbasch	functional
17:11	wackyvorlon	I've been playing with overtone and clojure lately, and using this bit of example code: https://www.refheap.com/85538
17:11	stompyj	I love LinkedIn’s infrastructure, that’s another place I’d cnosider
17:11	wackyvorlon	What does it mean when you call #'player2?
17:11	gtrak	#' is a var, that's usually an indicator of repl-convenience.
17:11	dbasch	stompyj: LinkedIn has a good culture of open-sourcing stuff
17:11	petehunt	yeah i don’t know too much about their codebase
17:12	petehunt	i just can speak confidently that we use FP techniques all over the frontend
17:12	nullptr	linkedin has cool backend tech, yet somehow i encounter more "this doesn't work" bugs on their site vs. any other of the "majors"
17:12	technomancy	petehunt: how much of that is just an inevitable consequence of operating at scale?
17:12	wackyvorlon	gtrak: How is it different from using (player2)? This in an apply-by.
17:12	technomancy	literally no other way to do it =)
17:12	nullptr	https://twitter.com/derekslager/status/448839597410115584
17:13	petehunt	i mean there are probably ways to do it without immutability etc
17:13	gtrak	wackyvorlon: my guess is overtone needs to serialize something? vars are serializable.
17:13	petehunt	but it would suck and require a lot more people.
17:13	dbasch	nullptr: certainly not more than on Twitter
17:13	gtrak	maybe..
17:13	stompyj	nullptr: agreed. I’m more of a back-end data guy tho, so right in my wheelhouse.
17:13	stompyj	petehunt: the fact you guys acknowlege immutability is important is amazing, tbh
17:13	wackyvorlon	gtrak: Basically it is using recursion with a delay, and the idea is that using #' lets you modify the code, reevaluate, and it keeps recursing with the new code.
17:13	gtrak	ah, yea, that makes sense.
17:14	dbasch	can’t speak for any front-end stuff at LinkedIn, I worked in the deepest depths of the backend
17:14	gtrak	wackyvorlon: essentially, vars provide an IFn implementation that delegates through a deref.
17:14	petehunt	stompyj: the front end eng team here is basically using our (fairly large these days) soapbox to push an FP agenda
17:15	petehunt	publicly
17:15	petehunt	it already won out internally
17:15	petehunt	most people are obsessed with syntax though
17:15	petehunt	so need to pick your battles
17:16	gtrak	clojure makes me actually annoyed at syntax.
17:16	nullptr	he said, in a lisp channel...
17:16	wackyvorlon	gtrak: Ahh! Okay, so basically functions are variables, and deref makes it use the latest value of the variable which implements IFn(i.e. the interface for a function)?
17:16	gtrak	I get uncomfortable when I see it now, it wasn't like that before.
17:16	petehunt	hey i am on your side nullptr
17:16	stompyj	petehunt: that’s awesome
17:17	gtrak	wackyvorlon: yes.
17:17	wackyvorlon	gtrak: Awesome! Thanks, much appreciated:) Also, that is exceedingly cool.
17:17	gtrak	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Var.java#L374
17:18	wackyvorlon	Bah, stupid netsplit...
17:18	wackyvorlon	I take it java doesn't have varargs?
17:19	amalloy	wackyvorlon: one minor detail: functions are not variables, they're immutable values. rather, when you define a function, with def or defn, you also create a var (variable) that points to the function's definition
17:19	gtrak	java does, but they're an illusion, it's just an array as far as the jvm's concerned.
17:19	wackyvorlon	amalloy: So sort of like having a void pointer in C.
17:19	gtrak	that's probably what Rich Hickey was going for ;-)
17:20	gtrak	how do we give void pointers better semantics so you'll use them more?
17:20	wackyvorlon	gtrak: That makes sense. Void pointers have always struck me as a hack.
17:21	gtrak	I was kind of joking, but it works.
17:21	amalloy	i'm not sure what the analogy is there, wackyvorlon. a var is indeed a bit like a void pointer, i guess, but so are most things in clojure: references are untyped, and can point at anything
17:21	amalloy	well, not "most things in clojure". that was way wrong. most references in clojure
17:22	sdegutis	What's a good use-case for Clojure's deriving functionality?
17:22	wackyvorlon	amalloy: Void pointers are used as a means of pointing to a memory address when you load an object with dlopen().
17:22	amalloy	void pointers are used for like a million things
17:22	wackyvorlon	dlsym() gives you the memory address of the code, which you dump into a void pointer, and call with syntax like *(foo);
17:23	wackyvorlon	It's been a while since I used it.
17:23	wackyvorlon	That is the speicific application of void pointers I'm thinking of:)
17:23	amalloy	wackyvorlon: i don't think that's a particularly useful frame of reference for understanding vars, but if it helps you, then go for it
17:23	amalloy	sdegutis: mostly it's used as a way to say "look, you can do inheritance!"
17:24	wackyvorlon	I think I'm used to lower-level stuff, so I tend to think in terms of memory addresses.
17:24	Glenjamin	sdegutis: grouping stuff together in multimethod implementations?
17:24	gtrak	sdegutis: friend uses it for access control.
17:25	gtrak	user roles
17:27	gtrak	wackyvorlon: after having used java for a while, clojure had a very C-like feel to me, which I think was not intended.
17:27	sdegutis	derive/parents/isa?/ancestors/descendents look fun, I just can't find any problems they're suitable for (where plain old functions and data aren't)
17:27	sdegutis	gtrak: I can't imagine how Clojure feels like C
17:28	amalloy	sdegutis: i have found one use-case for derive in my ~four years of clojure
17:28	gtrak	it's hard to describe. minimal I guess is the word.
17:28	gtrak	maybe it's just I was a noob when I used C last, and I was a noob at clojure.
17:28	sdegutis	Glenjamin: ah yes, that could make a ton of sense, it could act as the "state" for a multimethod!
17:28	hyPiRion	gtrak: Have you played around with scheme?
17:28	gtrak	a little bit
17:29	Glenjamin	i did it here, but i am unsure if it was worth it: https://github.com/Frozenlock/kerodon/blob/cde0feee8f178757891e4dc552f756194c389925/src/kerodon/impl.clj#L270
17:29	sdegutis	Glenjamin: like {:kind ::person :name "me" ...}
17:29	arrdem	meh... scheme was a waste of three months between SCIP and using Clojure.
17:29	hyPiRion	I feel the scheme/c analogy fits better, at least for me
17:30	sdegutis	With a multimethod that switches off on (isa? ::base-whatever)
17:30	wackyvorlon	It's been quite an adjustment to go from stuff like C to clojure.
17:30	gtrak	there's no 'Clojure for C programmers' video.
17:30	amalloy	sdegutis: https://github.com/ninjudd/depot/blob/develop/src/depot/pom.clj#L8-L23 let me reuse the multimethod implementation for two different dispatch values that i wanted to treat similarly (as a generic "list of whatever")
17:30	sdegutis	arrdem: scheme is pretty cool, just also not practical for real-world anything
17:30	arrdem	I guess due to minimality Scheme is more "c in sexprs" than clisp is...
17:31	arrdem	s/clisp/CL/g
17:31	Glenjamin	oh, neat - my example is almost identical to amalloy's \o/
17:31	sdegutis	amalloy: ahh ok
17:32	amalloy	Glenjamin: wait, https://github.com/Frozenlock/kerodon/blob/cde0feee8f178757891e4dc552f756194c389925/src/kerodon/impl.clj#L275, really? i thought it was supposed to be: checked="checked"
17:33	amalloy	the w3c even says so, at http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/input.checkbox.html
17:33	Glenjamin	<input type="checkbox" checked="checked" name="foo" value="123"> => foo=123
17:33	Glenjamin	<input type="checkbox" checked="checked" name="foo"> => foo=on
17:34	sdegutis	HTML is so lax it's not even funny.
17:34	Glenjamin	that form parsing code was a nightmare to write
17:35	Glenjamin	see https://github.com/xeqi/kerodon/blob/master/test/kerodon/unit/impl.clj#L56 onwards for checkboxes
17:36	Glenjamin	currently trying to remember the passphrase for key i used once a year ago to push to clojars :(
17:40	sdegutis	I determined a way to solve my problems using multi-methods and shared state.
17:41	sdegutis	You see, there will be a single variable called "live?" which will default to false, and two sets of methods that switch off based on this value.
17:42	sdegutis	There will also be a variable for one of the "implementations" which stores its state, although I don't like this work-around.
17:44	sdegutis	,ns
17:44	clojurebot	#<Namespace sandbox>
17:45	sdegutis	(let [x (def foo)] (= x (clojure.lang.Var$Unbound. #'sandbox/foo))
17:45	sdegutis	,(let [x (def foo)] (= x (clojure.lang.Var$Unbound. #'sandbox/foo))
17:45	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
17:45	sdegutis	Find Never mind.
17:48	Bronsa	,(let [x (def foo)] (= x (clojure.lang.Var$Unbound. #'sandbox/foo)))
17:48	clojurebot	false
17:48	Bronsa	sdegutis: ^
17:48	sdegutis	Othanks
17:50	whodidthis	whats a cool way to conj x amount of nil to a vector
17:50	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
17:52	dbasch	,(concat [1] (repeat 3 nil))
17:52	clojurebot	(1 nil nil nil)
17:53	turbofail	,(reduce conj [1] (repeat 3 nil))
17:53	clojurebot	[1 nil nil nil]
17:53	martinklepsch	I'm using flatten around pmap, is that something people do or do I lose pmaps parallelism doing that?
17:54	egghead	oh can I play
17:54	egghead	,(apply conj [1] (repeat 3 nil))
17:54	clojurebot	[1 nil nil nil]
17:54	whodidthis	o la la
17:55	amalloy	into, guys. into
17:55	hyPiRion	(inc amalloy)
17:55	lazybot	⇒ 106
17:55	amalloy	,(into [1] (repeat 3 nil))
17:55	clojurebot	[1 nil nil nil]
17:59	turbofail	,`[1 ~@(repeat 3 nil)]
17:59	clojurebot	[1 nil nil nil]
18:00	amalloy	turbofail: that's okay, but it doesn't really use the existing vector
18:00	turbofail	,`[~@[1] ~@(repeat 3 nil)]
18:00	clojurebot	[1 nil nil nil]
18:00	turbofail	of course that doesn't either
18:01	Glenjamin	what does the "promote" button do in clojars?
18:01	turbofail	i'm just going for silly points
18:04	shriphani	Hi, I am a bit stumped with some java interop here. I have a lib from maven where the docs and poking around with java show me a public method. However clojure thinks it is private (and so does reflection). Can someone help shed light on this ?
18:05	amalloy	shriphani: it could be a public method of a non-public class
18:05	technomancy	Glenjamin: it's an unfinished feature of clojars; you can ignore it
18:05	Glenjamin	aww
18:05	shriphani	amalloy nope
18:05	amalloy	in which case you can't call it via reflection, you have to type-hint it as some public interface that contains the method you want to call
18:05	Glenjamin	i got all excited and clicked it, but nothing happened :)
18:05	shriphani	it is a public class
18:06	amalloy	are you sure? be more specific: what maven artifact are you having trouble with and where are its docs? do you have a code sample that fails but you think should work?
18:07	shriphani	sure. this lib: http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/net.sourceforge.htmlcleaner/htmlcleaner , version 2.8. The method in question in HtmlCleaner/getInnerHtml
18:07	shriphani	is*
18:08	shriphani	amalloy, specifically: (import (org.htmlcleaner HtmlCleaner)) to import said class
18:10	amalloy	so you have some HtmlCleaner object h, and you're calling (.getInnerHtml h some-tag-node)?
18:10	shriphani	yep
18:11	justin_smith	shriphani: are you shure you are getting the version of the dep you think you are? it could be that the package changed in scope
18:11	amalloy	shrug should work. you could be getting a different version, as justin_smith says
18:11	shriphani	justin_smith, I removed the repo and ran lein deps again
18:11	justin_smith	(between the source/docs you are looking at and the version your program is using)
18:11	justin_smith	shriphani: but what version did it give you?
18:11	justin_smith	did you check?
18:11	shriphani	and I have 2.8 specified in project.clj which is the latest version
18:11	shriphani	and it downloaded 2.8
18:11	justin_smith	OK
18:12	amalloy	well, i don't think what you're describing should be possible. if you create a gist or a git repo or something with minimal failing code for someone else to repro, maybe it will make sense
18:24	shriphani	amalloy: https://gist.github.com/shriphani/fa1bea3267389e47b7f7
18:24	shriphani	thats my 3 files.
18:24	shriphani	well one of those is a repl output but yeah
18:25	amalloy	shriphani: .clean doesn't return the cleaner object
18:25	amalloy	so when you call .getInnerHtml on the result of process-page, it's some random other object, not a cleaner at all
18:26	sdegutis	How do you solve the require-order problem when you have a defmulti with defmethods in different namespaces?
18:27	amalloy	you can tell from the exception message, which says "No matching field found: getInnerHtml for class org.htmlcleaner.TagNode" - note it's not talking about the class HtmlCleaner at all, which is the class you thought you were using
18:27	sdegutis	Do you have the namespace with the defmulti in it just require the namespaces with the defmethods in dem?
18:30	shriphani	amalloy: this is what reflection spits out. getInnerHtml is private: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/shriphani/fa1bea3267389e47b7f7/raw/81375dab6fee4e610f8ab8f754fd26c4ae03d2d6/gistfile1.txt
18:31	amalloy	no, it clearly says public, right there in that table you ilnked me to
18:32	amalloy	but even if it didn't, the error message you get is clearly unrelated to access levels on HtmlCleaner, because you're not using one at all
18:32	shriphani	ok nvm. yeah I see it now. that was stupid of me.
20:11	arrdem	so when iw clojure.core/print-method not bound so that clojure.lang.RT.print() will use its formatter?
20:11	arrdem	just trying to read into the boot process here.
20:24	cespare	Is there a word for #( )
20:24	Jaood	fn ?
20:24	danielcompton	anonymous function?
20:24	arrdem	+1 anonymouse function
20:24	cespare	i mean that specific form
20:25	cespare	(fn ...) is also an anonymous function
20:25	Jaood	function literal
20:25	danielcompton	Anonymous function literal
20:25	danielcompton	darn Jaood beat me to it
20:26	cespare	ok thx
20:26	Jaood	:)
20:40	trap_exit	is there a way to cache the result of a cond pair? i.e. when I do (cond t1 e1, t2 e2, t3 e3) ... there is a sub expression x1 used in both t1+e1; x2 used in both t2 + e2; x3 used in both t3 + e3. Now, I only want to evaluate x1, x2 x3 once -- and I only want to eval x2 if t1 fails; and I only want to eval x3 if t1 + t2 fails. Is there a way to do this?
20:41	amalloy	trap_exit: you can let-bind a delay
20:41	arrdem	trap_exit: you could write a helper function and memoize it, but that's the only builtin wa.y
20:41	trap_exit	amalloy arrdem: damn, both of these are crazy ways
20:41	trap_exit	but both very clever
20:41	trap_exit	I'd never have thought of using a delay / memoization
20:42	amalloy	(let [x1 (delay (...))] (cond @x1 (inc @x1)))
20:42	trap_exit	decisions decisions
20:42	trap_exit	I like the delay way better
20:42	trap_exit	amalloy: are you available for consulting?
20:42	amalloy	trap_exit: you can even wrap it up in a clever macro if you want
20:42	trap_exit	ergh
20:42	trap_exit	writing cljs code
20:42	trap_exit	debugging macros painful
20:43	amalloy	trap_exit: no. but i answer questions for free in #clojure and on stackoverflow when i feel like it
20:43	trap_exit	but this use of delay is badass
20:43	trap_exit	oh
20:43	amalloy	https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/flatland/useful/utils.clj#L224 if you want it to look prettier, trap_exit
20:43	trap_exit	here's adubmass ideas
20:43	trap_exit	why does SO not hcarge peopl e$9.99 / month ?
20:43	trap_exit	I'd pay $9.99 / month
20:43	trap_exit	to have the ability to fucking ignore dumbass users
20:43	trap_exit	knowing that every time they create a new account, it costs them $9.99 / month
20:44	trap_exit	okay, this let delay
20:44	amalloy	that's a brilliant idea. why don't you start a competing company and drive them to bankruptcy while you rake in millions?
20:44	trap_exit	just got it to work
20:44	trap_exit	is completely badass
20:45	trap_exit	amalloy: I'm seriously considering doing so
20:45	trap_exit	but have not ifgured out a way to get initial users
20:45	locks	or just pull a Quora
20:45	locks	and go bankrupt because the UX is ass
20:45	trap_exit	well, Quora solves a different problem
20:45	trap_exit	"how to raise $80M without doing anything"
20:46	turbofail	that's a pretty important problem
20:46	dbasch	7-minute abs
20:47	turbofail	eventually we're going to have to solve that problem for everyone as the need for labor decreases
20:47	amalloy	oh wow, i forgot i made let-later work even for values you're destructuring. that's pretty clever, if i do say so myself
20:48	trap_exit	amalloy: got pat younger-amalloy on the back
21:15	rpaulo	I see
21:15	rpaulo	oops, wrong window
21:36	quizdr	rpaulo there are no wrong windows. just windows. the window did nothing wrong. it is not wrong.
21:53	danielcompton	Are there any recommendations for test naming conventions?
21:53	danielcompton	https://github.com/bbatsov/clojure-style-guide didn't have any
22:19	Frozenlock	Uhh... I'm getting a weird error with friend/authenticated. When the user isn't authenticated, it redirects to "/login", but on port 80 even if it's over ssl
22:22	kenrestivo	are you using a front end proxy like nginx?
22:31	Frozenlock	kenrestivo: I am
22:32	Frozenlock	but I'm setting the x-forwarded-proto AND overwriting the :scheme as https
22:32	pbw	/part
22:35	danielcompton	I'm trying to create prepared statements using alia/cassandra. I'm having trouble working out the clojuresque way of writing this, as the call to prepare the statement requires a connection to the database. So I don't know how to write it so that the first time the function is called the statement is prepared and the rest of the time it is cached.
22:36	danielcompton	memoize didn't seem appropriate
22:37	kenrestivo	frozenLock: i don't remember anywhere in friend checking :scheme before forwarding to /login. but it's been a while
22:38	Frozenlock	So it's just forwarding to 80? o_O
22:38	kenrestivo	if so, bug should be filed
22:38	Frozenlock	My lazy side wanted to avoid checking the source :-(
22:38	kenrestivo	it's forwarding to /login, no scheme specified, whatever was used for the request, is ring's default
22:39	kenrestivo	and if you're proxying through nginx, http not https is what arrived at ring
22:40	dbasch	Frozenlock: why don’t you just rewrite all http requests to https on nginx?
22:41	Frozenlock	dbasch: that's already what I'm doing. rewrite ^ https:....
22:41	Frozenlock	friend redirects to https://my-site/login:80
22:42	dbasch	a search for 80 in the source shows https://github.com/cemerick/friend/blob/94a62e46fd08fbc602a340ce03b784f54d718dcc/src/cemerick/friend/util.clj#L21
22:42	zerokarmaleft	Frozenlock: I think I patched that
22:43	Frozenlock	zerokarmaleft: Yes I saw your issue, which was even more confusing me :-/
22:44	Frozenlock	Oh I wonder if I disordered my middlewares
22:52	Frozenlock	Doesn't seem to be that. Grrrr
23:14	White_Flame	Hi, long-time Lisp user looking at some Clojure source code. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to load a clojure project into a repl and call things interactively. Is there a good beginner tutorial that covers that? Most just type in commands at the repl
23:14	White_Flame	instead of load source code from existing files
23:15	White_Flame	I do have a running repl, from apt-get clojure
23:15	dbasch	White_Flame: are you using leiningen?
23:15	White_Flame	no, just straight clojure-repl
23:15	dbasch	install leiningen and go from there
23:16	White_Flame	is it not worth the effort to get this running as is?
23:16	scottj	White_Flame: nope, almost everyone uses leiningen almost all the time
23:16	dbasch	no, leiningen is by far the best way
23:16	Frozenlock	leiningen powaaaa
23:18	White_Flame	so I've got that running. To be clear, is it fetching its own installation of clojure, or does it use what's installed on my system already?
23:19	beamso	fetching unless you're clojure install was linked to your local maven repository
23:19	scottj	White_Flame: in general though you make sure the src directory or jar is on the classpath and then you require the namespace.
23:19	dbasch	White_Flame: you don’t need an “installation” of clojure
23:19	dbasch	each project uses its own version of clojure as declared in the project.clj dependency
23:19	White_Flame	well, there's already a clojure.jar somewhere, and who knows how the clojure-repl command finds it
23:20	White_Flame	so it's "installed", at least as far as an apt-get install is concerned
23:20	dbasch	White_Flame: yes, there is one. You just don’t need it
23:20	dbasch	once you use leiningen you can disregard it
23:23	Frozenlock	godfuckingdamnit
23:23	Frozenlock	zerokarmaleft: you did patch it, but for the snapshot version
23:23	Frozenlock	Not the current release :-(
23:24	White_Flame	ok thanks, I'm up and running
23:25	zerokarmaleft	Frozenlock: I suppose you could ping cemerick and ask him to cut a new release
23:25	Frozenlock	Indeed
23:26	Frozenlock	It would feel weird to run production code with a snapshot :-p
23:26	zerokarmaleft	I ran a local 0.2.0 with just that fix
23:28	technomancy	who was the PDX clojure group person who was thinking about doing a lein hack night?
23:29	Frozenlock	technomancy: hey, nice interview with Sasha! I love your batcave :-p
23:30	TerranceWarrior	Hey White_Flame.
23:31	White_Flame	hey
23:31	TerranceWarrior	White_Flame: Remember me?
23:31	technomancy	Frozenlock: haha thanks
23:31	technomancy	always fun to hack your actual surroundings
23:32	White_Flame	The name's familiar...
23:32	TerranceWarrior	I was on Stealthnet and we were talking about program analysis to get debug information from previous lines in a monitor of 6510 disassembly.
23:32	White_Flame	Ah, yes
23:33	TerranceWarrior	White_Flame: in the far past we also discussed effecient div code on a 6510 as me with another handle. have many, forgotten which.
23:33	TerranceWarrior	having many that is
23:34	TerranceWarrior	White_Flame: i too have recently bitten the clojure bug.
23:34	White_Flame	Well, I'm actually porting from clojure, not using clojure at the moment ;)
23:34	TerranceWarrior	White_Flame: ?!
23:34	Frozenlock	zerokarmaleft: You don't have it clojars? ... You mean 'really' local? :-/
23:35	Frozenlock	White_Flame: Porting FROM clojure? To what?
23:37	White_Flame	Common Lisp
23:37	TerranceWarrior	Lisp is going to die without nonmutability. even #lisp ers where having a sessions saying that last night.
23:38	Frozenlock	I'm used to see CL->CLJ, not the other way around!
23:38	technomancy	racket seems to be adapting somewhat gracefully
23:38	gko	Emacs + Cider + Leiningen is awsome.
23:38	White_Flame	TW: There are lots of immutability libraries in CL as well
23:38	White_Flame	I tend to use strongly functional code
23:39	gko	Especially since the 0.7.0 doesn't seem to freeze Emacs anymore.
23:39	TerranceWarrior	White_Flame: that means it's all a matter of code and impl. one lock it's somewhat foobars and two.. two can make a deadlock. thats two!
23:39	technomancy	but racket seems to be better about breaking from tradition where it makes sense
23:40	White_Flame	TW: I've been doing concurrent programming for, well, a very long time. It's not hard to never have those problems
23:40	TerranceWarrior	long is relative.
23:40	TerranceWarrior	implementation is fact.
23:41	TerranceWarrior	thousands of hits a second a 2014 reality.
23:41	White_Flame	I really don't have much interest in language religion, regardless of whether it's the one I'm using or others'
23:42	Frozenlock	Yeah, stop fighting, elisp is clearly the best.
23:42	White_Flame	and thousands of hits per second has been a reality for a very long time
23:43	TerranceWarrior	long= relative and very long = very relative! ;)
23:43	technomancy	Frozenlock: it's great; in elisp it's guaranteed that mutable strings will cause no concurrency bugs, because there is no concurrency
23:43	TerranceWarrior	being as though very relative doesn't mean 'very relative'.
23:44	White_Flame	okay, let's say 15 years? banking systems have always been huge data processors, regardless of the web catching up in volume
23:44	TerranceWarrior	(++ technomancy)
23:44	Frozenlock	technomancy: Isn't this supposed to change?
23:44	White_Flame	technomancy: Works for node.js ;)
23:44	technomancy	Frozenlock: it's been discussed for a long time... I'm sure it will be a long time before it changes
23:45	White_Flame	(and then they get weird with process pools)
23:45	technomancy	White_Flame: as much as I like to make fun of JS, they amazingly got strings right
23:45	technomancy	undoubtedly by accident
23:45	TerranceWarrior	with banks realtime usually isn't an issue. it's stuff like reports that need optimization.
23:45	TerranceWarrior	ya know?
23:46	White_Flame	2014 brings no new requirements, just other interesting options to implement them in
23:46	technomancy	if there are any new requirements, they might be around scaling down, not up
23:47	technomancy	writing code for small devices that are getting ridiculously cheap
23:47	White_Flame	yep, and it's nice living with today's compiler & vm technology, instead of the C focus of yesteryear
23:47	White_Flame	to get all that stuff fast & small
23:48	sjy	White_Flame: what was the last year that brought new requirements? :)
23:48	White_Flame	sjy: I shall decline to respond ;)
23:49	White_Flame	but scalability, responsiveness, and maintainability have always been with us, in need & options in the solution space
23:50	sjy	yeah just curious if you were making the point that on one level requirements never really change, or saying that 2014 was special
23:50	White_Flame	I'm saying that 2014 isn't special, in response to TerranceWarrior
23:50	TimMc	TerranceWarrior: Yeah, it's funny how banking is often used as an example of the need for realtime, concurrent, distributed algorithms... but in reality it's all batched. :-P
23:50	technomancy	clusters where machines go down and get replaced every day is new-ish
23:51	White_Flame	technomancy: what's "new"? people doing it, or the average startup reaching for things off the shelf?
23:51	White_Flame	because I was certainly doing clusters with individual machine downtime in the 90s
23:52	White_Flame	and of course, that far predated my work
23:53	dbasch	Imagine a Beowulf cluster of ring servers
23:53	White_Flame	My network's a star configuration, you insensitive clod!
23:54	technomancy	White_Flame: a few weeks ago I replaced a whole cluster of 44 machines with brand new ones in an hour just to do a trivial-ish deploy
23:54	technomancy	maybe that was possible in the 90s but you would have had to have been at nasa or something
23:55	White_Flame	nah, it's all been open a mainstay of open source
23:55	White_Flame	-open
23:55	White_Flame	just different architectures connecting to different services
23:55	technomancy	the need for fault-tolerance in data centers has risen a lot
23:56	technomancy	because virtualization makes things cheap, and cheap things aren't reliable
23:56	TerranceWarrior	technomancy: 43.80 seconds per machine? not bad!
23:56	White_Flame	hmm, virtualization on a nice box, vs a bunch of really crap cheap single-OS boxes...
23:57	TerranceWarrior	opps 1.3 seconds i mean.
23:58	TerranceWarrior	oh whatever, meds talking.