#clojure – 2014-04-23

2014-04-23

00:04	cddr	It's an alternative approach to managing a big IT infrastructure
00:36	r00k	Does anyone have a link to a plugin that colorizes clojure.test output?
00:37	r00k	lein-difftest appears unmaintained an unworking.
00:49	jwm	is eval lazy?
00:50	amalloy	jwm: that's a pretty poorly-defined question
00:50	jwm	probably
00:50	amalloy	try constructing a sample call to eval, decide how it would behave if eval were lazy vs not lazy, and see which answer you actually get
00:51	jwm	I am trying to do an eval right after (use)
00:51	jwm	it works when I lein repl but the eval fails when I do lein run
01:04	expez	jwm: eval isn't lazy. Furthermore, eval isn't called directly very often, so if you're new to Clojure you're probably 'doing it wrong'.
01:05	jwm	I'm loading some code at runtime based on configuration using 'use' and then calling a init function from there
02:06	zanes	So, I have a sequence of data transformations during which I want to perform side effects based on the intermediate values. What’s the most idiomatic way to go about that?
02:07	zanes	Without the side effects this is very neatly expressed using the thread last macro.
02:09	Si_	any one here use caribou at all ?
02:13	jwm	so lein run leaves me in the "user" namespace?
02:14	noidi	zanes, synthread has ->/aside for that purpose https://github.com/LonoCloud/synthread
02:14	zanes	Aha.
02:15	noidi	or you could do (as-> x (side-effect-1 x) (side-effect-2 x) x)
02:15	noidi	within (-> ...)
02:16	zanes	noidi: Those are both really helpful, thanks!
02:17	noidi	and if your side-effecty functions take the topic as the first parameter, you could do (-> ... (doto side-effect-1 side-effect-2) ...) but that doesn't read very well IMO
02:17	zanes	I’m threading last, fwiw.
02:18	beamso	so, in my programming, i build up maps of information to process. is that what that library is for, in a way?
02:19	zanes	So it seems like as-> won’t work for me in here.
02:21	noidi	ah, I forgot that as-> doesn't just give a name to the topic but it does threading as well
02:22	noidi	zanes, this should work
02:22	noidi	,(-> 2 (as-> x (do (println x) x)))
02:22	clojurebot	2\n2
02:22	zanes	,(-> [1 2] (as-> x (do (println x) x)))
02:22	clojurebot	[1 2]\n[1 2]
02:22	zanes	,(->> [1 2] (as-> x (do (println x) x)))
02:22	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: Unsupported binding form: (do (println x) x)>
02:22	noidi	ah, right
02:23	zanes	,(->> [1 2] #(as-> % (do (println x) x)))
02:23	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.Exception: Unsupported binding form: (do (println x) x), compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
02:24	noidi	,(-> [1 2 3] (as-> xs (map inc xs) (do (println xs) xs)))
02:24	clojurebot	(2 3 4)\n(2 3 4)
02:24	zanes	This seems relevant: http://missingfaktor.blogspot.com/2014/03/dead-simple-threading-with-functions-in.html
02:24	noidi	that's not as nice as ->> as you have to explicitly name the topic in each step, but it still does threading
02:25	zanes	Ah, I get it.
02:25	zanes	So as-> basically lets you choose your own position.
02:25	zanes	For each form.
02:25	noidi	yes
02:26	zanes	Okay. I was mistaken in my understanding of it. So I’d replace my use of ->> with as->.
02:26	zanes	Probably.
02:37	numberten	question
02:37	numberten	i was trying to write the shortest possible identity function
02:38	numberten	i thought #(%) might work but it doesn't seem to
02:38	numberten	i'm curious what makes that any different than (fn [x] x) which seems to work
02:44	dbasch	numberten: this answers your question http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13204993/anonymous-function-shorthand
02:44	numberten	thanks
02:44	numberten	i realized that it was the () around it
02:44	numberten	that was breaking it
02:44	numberten	i guess I don't fully understand the desugaring that happens
02:46	dbasch	numberten: #(%) tries to call % as a function, with no arguments
02:47	numberten	i see
02:58	noidi	,'#(%)
02:58	clojurebot	(fn* [p1__25#] (p1__25#))
03:00	numberten	woah
03:00	zanes	,(#(%) #(print “Hello”))
03:00	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: “Hello” in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
03:01	numberten	,#(-> %)
03:01	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval132$fn__133 sandbox$eval132$fn__133@ad08de>
03:01	numberten	,(#(-> %) 5)
03:01	clojurebot	5
03:09	zanes	noidi: Turns out prismatic.plumbing has as->>.
03:09	zanes	https://github.com/Prismatic/plumbing/blob/master/src/plumbing/core.clj#L300...L303
03:10	jwm	how do I use another namespace than "user" when executing -main from uberjar?
03:12	kelsey	hey I have a total newb question
03:15	kelseygi	i wanna map a function over a vector of maps
03:16	kelseygi	the function is select-keys, which takes the map as the first arg & a set of keys as the second arg
03:16	kelseygi	how do i get each member passed to select-keys in the map call?
03:16	amalloy	you have a fixed set of keys you want to select, across all maps?
03:17	kelseygi	yah
03:17	kelseygi	it's json--i probably should do something more robust for parsing but now i want to know the answer
03:17	amalloy	(map #(select-keys % [:x :y :z]) maps), although i would usually write that as (for [m maps] (select-keys m [:x :y :z]))
03:18	kelseygi	ah the placeholder % was what i couldn't google :)
03:18	amalloy	kelseygi: i mean, remember that #(f % x) is just shorthand for (fn [foo] (f foo x))
03:19	amalloy	you don't ever need to use it
03:19	roelof	Hello, I have to make a script which checks if someone is older then 12 and younger then 20
03:19	amalloy	show them a picture of a VHS tape
03:19	roelof	So i did this:http://pastebin.com/06mfqLjh
03:20	roelof	but now I see this error message: cannot be cast to clojure.lang.id
03:20	roelof	how to solve this ?
03:21	ebaxt	roelof: (> age 12) not (age > 12)
03:22	ebaxt	and you don't need the if
03:22	kelseygi	thank you amalloy
03:23	roelof	oke, still have to think about this,
03:24	roelof	last question : Can I do the same with one comparison and three arguments
03:24	roelof	I now I can do ( < x y x )
03:24	amalloy	(< 12 age 20)
03:25	roelof	amalloy: does that not mean lesser then 12 ??
03:25	lazybot	roelof: What are you, crazy? Of course not!
03:25	roelof	lazybot: ????
03:27	amalloy	lazybot is right as always
03:27	roelof	I think lazybot is insulting me. I do not understand what he/she means
03:27	amalloy	he's a robot
03:28	amalloy	he just knows that if you ask a question with two exclamation marks the right answer is usually, as here, "no"
03:28	amalloy	er, question marks
03:29	roelof	oke, I refrase my question then
03:30	roelof	amalloy: does that not mean lesser then 12 ?
03:30	amalloy	why don't you try it on some sample values of x and see?
03:31	roelof	oke, I will do that
03:31	roelof	thanks for the help so far
03:56	martinklepsch	I'm using data.zip/data.xml and some other stuff and would like to parse a list of elements to a vector of strings: <parent><a>hello</a><b>you</b></parent> => ["hello" "you"]
03:59	martinklepsch	nevermind, got it
04:08	jwm	that is nice
04:09	jwm	now I have two repls going at once, one from lighttable and one from lein :)
04:16	bars0	\quit
04:23	sveri	hi, why does this macro return a stack overflow error? http://pastebin.com/H1eHr6JZ I am wondering, cause it should stop recursion if i give it a map without the key :a
04:26	djcoin	sveri: as you are outputting
04:26	djcoin	a code that contain a macro, it keeps growing
04:27	djcoin	and macro expanding I guess - yet, I'm far from being a macro expert
04:27	sveri	djcoin: if I omit the (println there still is a stackoverflow error
04:29	djcoin	I think a println call has nothing to do with a stackoverflow error
04:29	djcoin	Maybe you could paste your error
04:32	sveri	djcoin: this is the error: clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException: java.lang.StackOverflowError, compiling: it occurs at the line with the recursion step
04:33	sveri	the stackoverflow also happens if you call the macro with no map at all, like a string for instance
04:52	augustl	sveri: out of curiousity, why the let?
04:52	sveri	augustl: I will need the binding later, but left that out in the example because it just complicates things
04:53	augustl	do you get the stack overflow when the code runs, or when the macro expands?
04:53	augustl	I assume the former :)
04:54	augustl	also, why the ~@, wouldn't (mein (:a ~t)) do the trick?
04:55	augustl	I seldom write macros so I forget all the terms.. But doesn't ~@ mean "inline this form"?
04:55	pyrtsa	Correct.
04:56	augustl	perhaps that's where you get the overflow, at expansion time, since you try to inline something that isn't around at expansion time.. </wildguess>
04:56	sveri	augustl: sry, copy and paste error, its actually ~t jeez
04:56	augustl	ah :)
04:56	sveri	however, the error occurs when running the code
04:56	augustl	what is the value of t initially?
04:57	sveri	it is supposed to be a map, but can be anyhting
04:57	sveri	I dont want the parameter to be restricted
04:58	augustl	also just realized I'm not sure what happens when you recursively call a macro
04:58	augustl	perhaps that's the problem
04:58	augustl	the checks you do are run-time, the macro expands forever? Not sure why that doesn't give you an expansion time stack overflow, though
04:59	sveri	hm, you think you cannot call a macro recursively?
04:59	augustl	well, it is called expansion time, not run time
04:59	augustl	so you can do it, but you need to make sure your recursion check is done expansion time
05:00	augustl	sounds like a classic case of trying to do too much in a macro? :)
05:00	sveri	:D
05:01	augustl	the fact that you get the overflow run-time makes no sense to me, though
05:01	augustl	I can guess.. But I don't understand macro expansion, apparently :)
05:02	augustl	is the inner "mein" expanded expand-time, or when it's called the first time? If so, that explains the run-time stack overflow, at least
05:04	sveri	ok, it also appears during macroexpand-all
05:08	sveri	this macro: (defmacro rec-macro [x] `(when ~x (rec-macro (first ~x)))) suffers the same problem
05:09	sveri	the "and" macro should be doing the same
05:14	augustl	sveri: but the check happens before expansion
05:15	augustl	sveri: in your case, the check happens inside the quoted form
05:15	augustl	sveri: in the case of "and", the check happens when the macro is invoked expansion time
05:15	sveri	augustl: ok, I think I got a slight feeling what you are telling me (my first time writing a macro ;-))
05:19	augustl	sveri: stuff that happens inside `(+ 1 2) means + isn't invoked expansion-time
05:19	augustl	but if you do (if (= something 1) `(+ 1 2)), that if check before the ` form is actually evaluated expansion-time, not run-time
05:20	Kototama	hi, any idea how to get rid of this error when using timbre? http://paste2.org/tjDGvDPG
05:20	augustl	sveri: and vararg macros (which "and" is) are evaluated expansion time
05:21	sveri	augustl: ok, thank you
05:21	sveri	that sounds reasonable :-=
05:21	sveri	:-)
05:22	augustl	~reasonable ;)
05:55	xsyn	Does Clojure have a spec?
05:57	clojurenoob	hey guys I'm getting a 'No such namespace' error with lein run which I am not getting with lein repl, any ideas ?
06:12	clojurenoob	hmmm seems I need a specific function level require on the namespace before I call an eval on it
07:03	karls	yep
07:04	karls	whoops! wrong window.
07:22	gfredericks	xsyn: no
07:25	xsyn	gfredericks: ta
07:55	octe	i seem to remember a quote in regards to clojure, something like "its better to have a few types which work with all functions instead of many types that work with a few functions"
07:57	katratxo	octe: chapter 5 of JoC book starts with "It’s better to have 100 functions operate on one data structure than 10 functions on
07:57	katratxo	10 data structures.
07:57	katratxo	-- Alan Perlis
07:57	octe	ah
07:57	octe	thats where i got it from
07:57	octe	thanks
07:59	katratxo	http://books.google.es/books?id=nZTvSa4KqfQC&pg=PA84#v=onepage&q&f=false
07:59	katratxo	octe: also found the Clojure Programming
07:59	octe	can't see that page
07:59	katratxo	nope?
07:59	octe	but i bought JoC so i have it in pdf form somewhere
08:00	octe	"You have either reached a page that is unavailable for viewing or reached your viewing limit for this book"
08:00	katratxo	ok
08:01	agarman	here's a good page of Alan Perlis quotes http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html
08:01	agarman	quote 9 is what you're looking for
08:38	irctc	hello everyone i am beginner in clojure.I want to be do the unit testing of clojure functions with a new database where i define the new database in a application structure and how,
08:43	agarman	clojure has decent test package built in
08:43	irctc	hello everyone i am beginner in clojure.I want to be do the unit testing of clojure functions with a new database where i define the new database in a application structure and how,
08:44	beamso	https://github.com/clojure/java.jdbc
08:45	agarman	and an intro to clojure.test http://java.dzone.com/articles/clojuretest-introduction
08:45	gtrak	irctc: unit test library has little to say on how you expose your database.
08:45	gtrak	keep it simple
09:05	boodle	hi, I'm learning clojurescript and want my ring server to determine if the current 'cljsbuild' build version is :dev or :production.. how do I access the current build version server-side (say using Selmer)
09:07	badlambda	does anyone know of any existing implementations in clojure of this algorithm? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuth's_Algorithm_X
09:07	clgv	badlambda: not very likely. what is your problem with that one?
09:08	badlambda	clgv: I am having some problems coding it up
09:08	badlambda	would help to have something to learn from
09:08	clgv	badlambda: can you narrow down your problem?
09:09	badlambda	yeah, inexperience :-\|
09:10	clgv	badlambda: that's too general to give you good pointers.
09:11	badlambda	clgv: sure, but that's the root cause
09:12	clgv	badlambda: try to implement it bottom up. first solution encoding. second the operations on the data structure. third one recursion procedure. finally the complete recursion
09:12	badlambda	thanks, I will give it a go
09:12	badlambda	btw, what is the best way to get feedback assuming I produce a solution?
09:13	badlambda	I feel like writing elegant, ideomatic clojure is still a problem for me
09:13	clgv	badlambda: post a gist on refheap.com and ask here for "live feedback" or on the mailing list
09:14	badlambda	thanks for the advice clgv
09:14	clgv	badlambda: try to make your gist readable and include comments so that people understand what you are trying to do
09:15	badlambda	good idea, sometimes I have problems following myself, since my Clojure tends to be a mess of repeated "map":s
09:15	badlambda	it's the spaghetti code equivalent in functional programming I guess
09:18	koalallama	can anybody reproduce this? running lein repl outside of a lein project causes java process to use 100% CPU, and continually grow in memory usage. running lein 2.3.4 on JRE 1.8.0_05
09:18	koalallama	(on OS X)
09:19	clgv	koalallama: it's probably transmitting the contents of your hard drive to the NSA ;)
09:20	koalallama	NSA transfer only accounts for 0.1% due to their efficient syncing algorithm though
09:20	clgv	ah damn, well, .... no idea...
09:21	beamso	koalallama: not here. do you have a plugin configured that may be causing trouble?
09:27	koalallama	yes, lein-exec but tried with no profiles.clj and same thing
09:27	owl-v-	how do i create java class in clojure code? https://www.refheap.com/79100
09:29	koalallama	I narrowed it down to when I run lein repl from my home diretory, which has about 100GB+ worth of files
09:29	koalallama	lein repl from an empty directory is perfectly fine.
09:29	beamso	weird
09:30	koalallama	I imagine lein is searching through all my files trying to gather project information
09:30	beamso	owl-v-: (mymethod (Myclass.))
09:34	owl-v-	beamso: thanks. ;;(.mymethod (Myclass.))
09:34	beamso	oops. yes, .mymethod.
09:35	pjstadig	~source some-when
09:37	Bronsa	~source when-some
09:37	Bronsa	well. pjstadig it's when-some anyway
09:42	hyPiRion	~source when-first
09:44	owl-v-	o.O
09:45	owl-v-	java object is not copied. https://www.refheap.com/79106
09:46	Bronsa	owl-v-: that's the same as in java
09:46	tbaldridge	owl-v-: why would it be copied? everything is passed via reference
09:48	beamso	i'm trying to think of a language where the object would be copied and i can't.
09:48	Bronsa	beamso: C++
09:49	beamso	really?
09:49	teslanick	Only if you don't put the asterisk in front of everything. :)
09:49	Bronsa	if you don't explicitely references or pointers, sure
09:49	Bronsa	explicitely use*
09:49	teslanick	star-this equals star-that deref this. It's as if an entire programming language were written inside a clojure atom. :)
09:50	beamso	my c++ must be terrible because i can't think of a case when i wouldn't use references or pointers.
09:50	teslanick	It's syntax-compatible with C, where very often you do want to pass-by-value.
09:53	tbaldridge	beamso: yeah, proper C++ uses copy on argument passing with a bit of & (pass stack value by reference) to improve performance.
09:54	beamso	okay. i should probably jog my c++ memory one day.
10:05	owl-v-	does clojure pass reference when calling functions? ex) (function [:1 :2])
10:06	owl-v-	does clojure pass reference when calling functions? ex) (function 1)
10:07	mercwithamouth	my newbie little brain just popped o_O; http://sritchie.github.io/2014/01/17/api-authentication-with-liberator-and-friend/
10:07	mercwithamouth	seems like a very good tutorial though...i'm going to have to play with this a lot...
10:14	teslanick	Is there a version of update-in that "upserts" into a map?
10:14	teslanick	,(update-in {} :foo "HELLO WORLD")
10:14	clojurebot	#<UnsupportedOperationException java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: nth not supported on this type: Keyword>
10:15	teslanick	nvm, I think I'm being foolish
10:17	`szx	teslanick: assoc-in?
10:19	teslanick	I was getting strange behavior because I didn't realize that update-in wants a vector as its second arguemnt.
10:20	teslanick	,(update-in {} [:foo] conj :upsert-key)
10:20	clojurebot	{:foo (:upsert-key)}
10:20	teslanick	,(update-in {:foo [:existing-key]} [:foo] conj :upsert-key)
10:20	clojurebot	{:foo [:existing-key :upsert-key]}
10:28	stuartsierra	owl-v-_: Yes, Clojure always passes function arguments by reference, the same as Java. The only time you get pass-by-value is with primitive numbers, which are rarely used in Clojure.
10:32	Bronsa	stuartsierra: uhm, technically it's always pass by value, only that in case of Objects, the value is a pointer to the object
10:33	stuartsierra	Bronsa: yeah yeah :)
10:35	teslanick	http://i.qkme.me/3oc321.jpg
10:41	cbp	,
10:41	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
10:46	solussd	Bronsa: stuartsierra: technically, it’s “pass by sharing”. :D
10:47	solussd	…with immutuable data though, it’s semantically equivilent to pass by reference
10:47	solussd	*immutable, even
10:47	egghead	huh?
10:48	egghead	isn't it pass by ref anyhow given the jvm and js underneath :p
10:48	owl-v-_	solussd: is number passed by reference?
10:48	egghead	I wouldn't imagine so owl-v-_
10:48	solussd	for all intents and purposes… yes.
10:49	owl-v-_	is list/vector passed by reference?
10:49	egghead	but like.. if you have a java obj and not a clojure datastruct... it matters
10:49	egghead	well a clojure datastruct is just a java obj but you know what I mean ;)
10:49	solussd	they’re boxed, so it’s pass by sharing (pass by value, but the value is a pointer)
10:49	egghead	if you have a reference to something that exposes a mutable api
10:49	solussd	right
10:49	egghead	then you'll have to worry about that even in clojure
10:50	jcromartie	pass by value is pretty unworkable with the amount of data most programs deal with anyway
10:50	egghead	hi everyone... i'm currently lamenting standalone jar startup times :(
10:50	egghead	1: i want to use clojure for command line apps because I love clj so much
10:50	egghead	2: clojure takes forever to start up
10:51	egghead	3: i am crying
10:51	cbp	you could try clojurescript with node
10:51	hyPiRion	egghead: As a lein contributor, I've felt the same pain
10:51	solussd	real pass by reference with mutable data is madness
10:52	owl-v-_	but, #clojure is faster to start up :)
10:52	egghead	ya solussd and yet is the default in langs like java ;)
10:52	llasram	jcromartie: There's optimizations. R is mostly past-by-value with copy-on-write and elided copying for single-reference values
10:52	hyPiRion	egghead: Currently, I just try to keep myself busy with other things until a solution pops up.
10:52	egghead	lol hyPiRion, ya
10:52	hyPiRion	Because it will happen at some point
10:53	solussd	no, pass by reference with mutable references means I can change the value referred to by the reference passed to the function, not just values inside, say, an object (that’s where the distinction between pass by reference and pass by sharing comes in)
10:53	solussd	but, mutability in OO langs is also madness.
10:54	egghead	ya, clojure doesn't have immutable refs does it?
10:54	egghead	defonce maybe?
10:54	owl-v-_	atom
10:54	technomancy	egghead: have you looked at racket?
10:54	teslanick	solussd: That would be the equivalent of passing pointers-of-pointers, yes?
10:54	jcromartie	egghead: different kind of ref
10:54	egghead	owl-v-_: that's the other side of the thing, the thing that is referenced is immutable
10:54	technomancy	it's really good for small, fast-starting programs
10:54	jcromartie	all Java objects are references
10:54	egghead	but the reference itself can be changed to point to any other thing
10:54	jcromartie	or treated as such
10:54	solussd	well, in clojure a “pointer” to the value is passed, not the var itself
10:55	owl-v-_	(fun 1) ??
10:55	lazybot	owl-v-_: Definitely not.
10:55	owl-v-_	lol lazybot~
10:55	egghead	,(type 1)
10:55	clojurebot	java.lang.Long
10:55	egghead	^ wrapper type
10:56	egghead	so ya, a ref
10:56	egghead	hm
10:57	egghead	solussd: what are you getting at btw
10:58	egghead	i've wondered if it would be better if clojure def[n]s were final declarations but not sure if it matters
10:58	jcromartie	it doesn't particularly matter
10:58	solussd	absolutely nothing. I just saw Bronsa correct stuartsierra and I figured I might as well be more “technically correct”. :P
10:58	egghead	ah :p
10:59	jcromartie	the JVM deals primarily in objects and those are always essentially references
11:00	solussd	yup
11:06	jcromartie	hell is watching other people use a computer
11:06	llasram	Not a fan of pair programaming?
11:20	seangrove	http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-layout/ ASCII art to define layout grids
11:22	technomancy	watching people who don't know keyboard shortcuts is the worst
11:23	seangrove	technomancy: Breath. You're going to crush their sense of confidence.
11:23	seangrove	Ahem.
11:23	seangrove	Breathe*
11:24	hyPiRion	technomancy: I quite enjoy it even more when any non-xmonad person attempt to use my computer.
11:24	hyPiRion	esp. if they consider themselves techy
11:25	gfredericks	hyPiRion: my work machine is virtualbox + xmonad + dvorak; completely user-proof
11:25	hyPiRion	heh
11:26	technomancy	try an unlabeled dvorak 40% keyboard =)
11:26	gfredericks	40%?
11:26	hyPiRion	gfredericks: 0.4
11:26	gfredericks	having the qwerty labeling makes it deceptive
11:26	gfredericks	hyPiRion: that didn't clear anything up
11:27	technomancy	gfredericks: 40% means no number keys, arrow keys, or function keys
11:27	hyPiRion	gfredericks: that was my intent
11:27	technomancy	just ~40 keys
11:27	technomancy	given that 105 keys is "standard" and you can't have fractional keys
11:28	gfredericks	technomancy: a key that works some fraction of the time is like a fractional key
11:28	hyPiRion	gfredericks: none of my keys work when my computer is off
11:29	coventry	Wow. What do you do for numbers? http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47133
11:29	Guest34699	hi
11:30	hyPiRion	gfredericks: or perhaps they do. I'm not sure of the definition of "working" is.
11:30	coventry	Oh, they're a chord with the fn key.
11:30	gfredericks	oh man
11:30	gfredericks	I kind of want such a keyboard
11:31	coventry	I'm pretty skeptical about it improving my life.
11:31	Guest34699	can i use maven in intellij ide?
11:32	sqldier	yes
11:32	sqldier	file>settings>maven
11:37	technomancy	coventry: fn for numbers means you can put a numpad under your hand even in the home row position
11:38	technomancy	I actually like it better than having them across the top
11:49	pjstadig	#1
11:49	pjstadig	clojurebot: #1
11:49	clojurebot	1. One man's constant is another man's variable. -- Alan J. Perlis
11:49	pjstadig	hmm
12:04	rasmusto	how much of paredit.el do people actually use?
12:05	owl-v-_	clojurebot: #2
12:05	clojurebot	2. Functions delay binding; data structures induce binding. Moral: Structure data late in the programming process. -- Alan J. Perlis
12:05	llasram	rasmusto: In what sense? How many of the commands it provides?
12:06	rasmusto	llasram: I guess it's a pretty vague question. Maybe this: /what/ in paredit.el can people not live without?
12:07	llasram	rasmusto: Mostly the fundamental idea of structural editing :-)
12:07	rasmusto	hah, okay :)
12:07	gfredericks	there's probably like 10 basics
12:07	gfredericks	moving the cursor around, adding, deleting
12:08	rasmusto	surround element, slurp, barf, etc.?
12:08	gfredericks	anything that is a composition of other commands is less fundamental
12:08	gfredericks	those are all compositions I think
12:08	rasmusto	ah, alright.
12:08	gfredericks	I can slurp by cut/paste
12:08	gfredericks	I don't want to, but I could
12:08	seangrove	bbloom: When you get a chance, would be nice to hear your thoughts on Famo.us' approach to layout https://famo.us/guides/dev/layout.html. I was a bit confused about their Panel-types initially, but seeing that everything is a composition of transforms makes sense, but it's very, very low-level
12:09	bbloom	seangrove: transforms != layout
12:10	seangrove	bbloom: In the famous world, it seems to ;) The grid layouts, etc. are a collection of transforms
12:10	seangrove	"In this section, we learned that all layout in Famo.us is directed by transforms."
12:11	bbloom	seangrove: transforms are clearly fundamental to positioning / rendering, but it's totally a lower level construct than layout management
12:11	seangrove	Anyway, that's just their lowest-level primitive that they build on to achieve actual layouts (grids, etc.), but they expose it as the way to approach layout
12:11	bbloom	seangrove: ok that makes more sense
12:12	bbloom	mainContext.add(sizeMod).add(originMod).add(rotateMod).add(test);
12:12	bbloom	sigh
12:12	bbloom	when will the rest of the planet earth catch on to this whole immutability thing?
12:13	bbloom	seangrove: there's not enough info about the grid stuff to say if it's any good
12:14	seangrove	bbloom: Or even declarative approach. No reason that's that's not {:name mainContext :expanders [{:sizeMod ...}]}
12:14	bbloom	nearly all layouts are axis aligned, so transforms as simple as offset & scale is totally fine. the full generality of affine matrices is a nice to have
12:15	bbloom	you can also have two transforms: one applied before layout and one after layout, but before rendering
12:15	coventry	technomancy: Huh, interesting.
12:18	seangrove	bbloom: If a child requests more width/height than a parent offers, is a general strategy to clamp the width/height at the offered values, or to allow the child to overgrow the parent's offered boundaries?
12:20	bbloom	seangrove: depends
12:20	bbloom	seangrove: CSS defaults overflow visible, right?
12:21	seangrove	bbloom: Yeah
12:21	bbloom	seangrove: i think i prefer overflow hidden by default
12:21	bbloom	seangrove: WPF's overflow: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.uielement.cliptobounds(v=vs.110).aspx
12:22	bbloom	note default: "metadata properties set to true"
12:22	bbloom	you can set that to false, then provide arbitrary geometry for a clip region: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.uielement.clip(v=vs.110).aspx
12:22	gfredericks	are there any libs of utilities for use with java.jdbc?
12:22	gfredericks	and if I make one would anybody hate me if I called it java.jdbc++?
12:23	bbloom	seangrove: actually, i may be reading that wrong
12:23	bbloom	seangrove: default might be overflow visible
12:23	hiredman	java.kecd
12:23	bbloom	shrug
12:23	gfredericks	hiredman: :)
12:24	gfredericks	java.jdbc++ would mean having "++" in the filename I think?
12:24	teslanick	bbloom: http://i.imgur.com/Be553NX.png
12:24	bbloom	teslanick: heh, indeed
12:25	llasram	gfredericks: I think it would mean having _PLUS__PLUS_ in the filename
12:25	hiredman	gfredericks: if I recall maven doesn't like + in the artifact name
12:25	llasram	,(munge "++")
12:25	clojurebot	"_PLUS__PLUS_"
12:25	hiredman	I had a ring-jetty-adapter+ at one point
12:25	hiredman	oh, no, it was ring-jetty+-adapter
12:26	hiredman	maybe I am misremembering so other problem with it
12:26	seangrove	bbloom: Alright, probably have another question re: grid stuff in a bit, but good to go for now.
12:26	gfredericks	hiredman: fine I'll make the artifact name java.jdbc_PLUS__PLUS
12:26	gfredericks	just kidding I will not do that it was a joke.
12:26	gfredericks	alright I have been dissuaded
12:26	bbloom	seangrove: if you start selling any of that tooling of yours, i want royalties :-P
12:26	seangrove	bbloom: I will, however, let you know the good news that the universe has put together a conference perfectly fit for you http://2014.cssconf.com/
12:27	bbloom	http://2014.cssconf.com/style.css
12:28	bbloom	man, i forgot what CSS looks like. i haven't written anything but sass in a while ;-)
12:28	rasmusto	cssaas
12:39	gfredericks	in core.async, are timeout channels impossible to GC until they're closed by the timeout mechanism?
12:41	hiredman	https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/async/impl/timers.clj
12:42	BobSchack	Yep they are stored in a skiplist if memory serves me. You could close them manually
12:42	BobSchack	I think
12:42	gfredericks	so I probably don't want to create one for every row in my db query result
12:43	BobSchack	You can if they are created within about the same time ~ 10ms
12:44	BobSchack	if you make timeout channels within ~10ms they are actually the same channel
12:44	gfredericks	that will not generally be the case
12:44	llasram	Now that's an interesting optimization
12:44	danlamanna	it seems there are a ton of "ins and outs of clojure" series on the internet. do you guys have a default for recommending?
12:45	coventry	Does that mean timeout channels are only accurate to within 10ms?
12:46	technomancy	danlamanna: aphyr's is pretty good
12:46	hyPiRion	danlamanna: Is there anything in particular about Clojure's guts you're in learning?
12:46	hyPiRion	*interested in learning
12:47	danlamanna	uh, generally just trying to get better at functional programming. i would eventually want to get into multithreading though.
12:47	coventry	4clojure.org
12:47	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
12:47	BobSchack	coventry should be look at core async tests for timeout channels
12:50	hyPiRion	danlamanna: 4clojure.org is good, and if you're good at math, you could try out project euler
12:51	hyPiRion	it's not reading/learning, more of a practice place though
12:51	coventry	Probably better to steer clear of project euler until you're reasonably fluent at functional programming. Trying to solve "how do I express this functionally" at the same time as "how do I do this calculation" tends to slow things down a fair bit.
12:52	danlamanna	yeah, not too worried, i did the first 50 or so problems in python before.
12:52	danlamanna	i think i'm gonna do a combination of aphyr + 4clojure
12:53	coventry	Oh, having the "how do I do this calculation" part solved ahead of the time would work, too. :-)
12:53	hyPiRion	coventry: when you pass the 100 mark, it's more about how you should represent the data, more than the calculations themselves
12:54	coventry	Oh, that sounds interesting.
12:54	hyPiRion	(Of course, you still have to do the calculation, but it's usually trivial to do, even in a new language)
13:01	syao	hello, I have a question, better explained in image http://www.gliffy.com/go/publish/image/5656201/L.png
13:04	syao	data structure, immutability question
13:07	eraserhd	Today, I work on extracting my new threading macro to a library.
13:09	eraserhd	I just need a decent name for it. Powerthread? Semantic threading? :/
13:09	llasram	syao: It's really not clear (at least to me) what you're asking
13:09	llasram	syao: If you express your problem with Clojure's persistent data structures, the result is immutable and persistent
13:11	llasram	eraserhd: not already covered by 1.6 additions to clojure.core and/or https://github.com/rplevy/swiss-arrows ?
13:11	syao	llasram, ok, so lets say that the "Data 3" is a list. When I add items to a list, the whole "Virtual Group" should be created.
13:11	eraserhd	llasram: No.
13:12	coventry	syao: You don't add items to a persistent list, you create a brand new list.
13:12	coventry	syao: So you make a function which takes D4 and VG1, and returns a new VG1.
13:13	llasram	syao, coventry: Or maybe even just use `update-in`
13:13	eraserhd	llasram: It's a form of -> that threads through if/if-not/if-let/cond/case/etc.
13:13	coventry	llasram: Maybe, but I assume the edges in the graph represent some subcalculations based on new values for the vertices.
13:14	syao	coventry, by saying "add" I mean creating new list with all the old and new values.
13:15	coventry	syao: Then the way I suggested should get you what you want.
13:16	syao	coventry, wait, in your way the whole immutability I should create my self, it wont be seamless
13:17	syao	P.S. why D4 needs to be an argument for the funtion?
13:17	coventry	In clojure you leave the seams in. :-)
13:18	llasram	syao: A concrete example of exactly what you're trying to do might help
13:20	eraserhd	Ah, clojuredocs.org is on 1.3.0?
13:20	llasram	eraserhd: Yes. It's a crufty rails app no one wants to work on. There was/is a re-write in Clojure, but seems to have stalled
13:21	syao	llasram, I can not give you a concrete example as it is global universal (theoretical) problem.
13:22	llasram	Then I will propose that this is not a problem you need to solve :-)
13:22	llasram	Or even really a "problem"
13:24	eraserhd	It is called 'packthread'.
13:24	Glenjamin	hi guys, does anyone know of an FRP library that is about data/computation rather than UIs?
13:24	eraserhd	Yay, a name. Now I can code.
13:25	Glenjamin	I have a fairly large amount of data, and I want to encode relationships and dependencies so that an update propagates throughout the system in a performant way
13:25	Glenjamin	perhaps this isn't actually called FRP?
13:25	coventry	Glenjamin: There was one described at the clojure conj last year.
13:26	syao	llasram, in fact it is, with hierarchical virtual groups I can enforce constraints on data with immutability.
13:27	coventry	Glenjamin: https://github.com/tgk/propaganda. I think hoplon could also be used this way.
13:28	tpope	gtrak: first attempt: https://github.com/tpope/cider-nrepl/commit/84ad9fbe946b7245b38b40c1d82da294b8668524
13:28	Glenjamin	coventry: propagator sounds like what i'm after
13:28	Glenjamin	thanks
13:28	gtrak	tpope: bbatsov will want a test-case.. though not sure how to generate one.. maybe a with-redefs hack?
13:29	Glenjamin	i'm hoping for performance gains over brute force re-calc, will be interesting to experiment
13:29	gtrak	otherwise looks good to me
13:29	owl-v-_	,(prn 04)
13:29	clojurebot	4\n
13:29	tpope	gtrak: yeah everything I could come up with was super contrived because (map str (cp/classpath)) is the entire implementation
13:30	owl-v-_	invalid number 09?
13:30	owl-v-_	,(println 09)
13:30	clojurebot	#<NumberFormatException java.lang.NumberFormatException: Invalid number: 09>
13:30	rasmusto	owl-v-_: octal
13:30	tpope	gtrak: thought I might take the currently unused https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider-nrepl/blob/master/test/cider/nrepl/middleware/test_transport.clj for a spin
13:30	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
13:30	Glenjamin	assuming you didn't have this feature, what's the command you wanted to write but couldn't?
13:31	gtrak	tpope: ah, we might need that to test something else, actually. we need a better solution for exceptions.
13:31	gtrak	was just thinking about it
13:31	dbasch	,(prn 632)
13:31	clojurebot	632\n
13:31	dbasch	,(prn 0632)
13:32	clojurebot	410\n
13:32	tpope	gtrak: also I'm weirded out by the fact that cp/classpath includes system jars and stuff that don't show up in the regular classpath
13:33	tpope	I mean it's not a big deal, but feels weird that using a middleware returns a different result
13:33	technomancy	what's the regular classpath?
13:33	technomancy	system/getproperty?
13:33	tpope	yeah
13:33	tpope	or $(lein classpath)
13:33	tpope	every other way I've ever retrieved it
13:33	Glenjamin	is calling classpath an asserting that it contains some colons and ".jar" useful?
13:34	technomancy	I wouldn't treat the system/getproperty one as canonical
13:34	technomancy	since it leaves out the bootclasspath
13:34	gtrak	tpope: probably has to do with the recursive classloader traversal.. it doesn't stop until it hits the top
13:34	technomancy	but you should be able to trust lein classpath
13:34	tpope	yeah I know the problems with getproperty
13:34	tpope	part of why I want this middleware
13:34	technomancy	...unless you're playing pomegranate/classloader games
13:35	tpope	but lein classpath and cp/classpath differing is weird
13:35	tpope	they're both right in their own way
13:36	ToxicFrog	Is there a convenient/idiomatic way to have multiple output programs in the same lein project? E.g., say I have a program with CLI, GUI, and web interfaces, and I want them in separate jars - is there a good way to do that in lein?
13:36	ToxicFrog	Or should I just be making it one project per UI + one shared library project?
13:36	technomancy	ToxicFrog: you want separate uberjars or separate libs deployed?
13:36	tpope	Glenjamin: I see that as a pretty silly test. plus colons aren't even portable
13:37	gtrak	tpope: lein-specific information might be interesting in itself, but its classpath is just what's used in the java invocation.
13:37	gtrak	whereas clojure.java.classpath gives you the reality
13:38	tpope	right. I think the reality is preferrable
13:38	tpope	what I'd really like is a way to get the boot classpath statically, I guess
13:38	Glenjamin	tpope: mm, was mainly thinking that faking it or spinning up a controlled JVM isn't worth it, so what's the smallest test that isn't completely useless
13:38	Glenjamin	i guess assert non-empty string is better than nothing
13:39	tpope	Glenjamin: I was actually thinking of just checking that it matched the current running classpath
13:39	ToxicFrog	technomancy: separate uberjars. Ideally I want to be able to say 'lein all-uberjars' or something and get foo.jar, foo-gui.jar, and foo-http.jar out.
13:39	Glenjamin	tpope: wouldn't that be your implementation in reverse?
13:39	technomancy	ToxicFrog: an alias to with-profile ... uberjar should do that
13:39	tpope	it'd be identical to my implementation afaik
13:40	tpope	(map str classpath) on both sides
13:40	Glenjamin	heh
13:40	tpope	which yeah, sigh
13:40	hyPiRion	ToxicFrog: yeah, use something like `:alias {"uberjar" [["with-profile" "+gui" "uberjar"] ...]}`
13:40	ToxicFrog	technomancy: so, I define multiple profiles with different :mains, and then lein with-profile foo uberjar?
13:41	technomancy	ToxicFrog: different :main and different :uberjar-name, yeah
13:41	technomancy	well
13:42	technomancy	with-profile profile1,profile2,profile3 uberjar
13:42	justin_smith	technomancy: responding to deep scrollback - here I thought fn for numbers would mean (2 :a) => [:a :a]
13:42	ToxicFrog	technomancy: awesomeness.
13:42	ToxicFrog	Thank you.
13:42	justin_smith	that would almost make sense in a math / number theory oriented clj fork
13:43	technomancy	np
13:48	ToxicFrog	technomancy: bug report: 'lein help' inside a project directory downloads all dependencies before giving you the help text.
13:48	Glenjamin	thats a feature!
13:48	ToxicFrog	technomancy: question: is there a way I can ask 'lein new' to generate the project.clj for a given template but do nothing else, if, say, I wanted to look at the :deps for it but not actually create such a project?
13:48	technomancy	ToxicFrog: you can't see the docstrings of the plugins if you don't fetch them first
13:49	ToxicFrog	technomancy: no, I mean, all dependencies for the project you're in
13:49	ToxicFrog	e.g. if I'm in a project that depends on ring, 'lein help new' will download ring first
13:49	Glenjamin	well, downloading plugins is required for lein help anyway
13:49	ToxicFrog	Or do you mean...
13:49	ToxicFrog	Oh, I see what happened.
13:49	ToxicFrog	No, that makes sense.
13:49	ToxicFrog	Never mind.
13:50	ToxicFrog	The question stands though :P
13:51	technomancy	ToxicFrog: unfortunately templates are imperative, not declarative
13:51	technomancy	so you pretty much have to run them
13:51	ToxicFrog	And then copy the bits I care about and throw away the rest.
13:51	ToxicFrog	Alright.
14:06	tpope	gtrak: with test: https://github.com/tpope/cider-nrepl/commit/59e6a64c2e5327b352dc255dc1a3b650d4a0d35d
14:08	justin_smith	it would be interesting if someone kept a static archive of the latest version of various lein templates
14:08	justin_smith	so you could browse what you would get if you created it locally
14:08	justin_smith	and point to them for reference, etc.
14:21	technomancy	well ... technically the halting problem.
14:26	llasram	Since templates can accept arbitrary arguments.... although do many?
14:27	technomancy	not just arbitrary args; they are fully turing-complete
14:27	justin_smith	yeah, a template could decide to output completely different files based on time of day...
14:27	technomancy	a template could wipe your home dir and send your private keys to the mafia or whatever
14:27	justin_smith	lein new jeckyll-hyde...
14:28	bbloom	technomancy: .... correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't templates just kinda automatically downloaded/installed upon use?
14:28	justin_smith	during the day it creates an unassuming REST API server, during the night it creates a proxy tunnel for blackhats
14:29	technomancy	bbloom: right; this is the one place where version ranges are arguably defensible
14:29	dbasch	lein new russianroulette app
14:33	koalallama	speaking of home directories.
14:33	amalloy	$mail irctc dude, please just ask your questions to #clojure. you won't get any responses if you just ask me via PM when i'm asleep
14:33	lazybot	Message saved.
14:33	gfredericks	I can only have cores+2 futures running at the same time amirite?
14:33	llasram	That should be enough for anyone
14:34	koalallama	technomancy: when I run lein repl from my home directory (about 100GB of files), java CPU usage climbs to 100, and memory usage grows constantly
14:34	amalloy	gfredericks: no, futures' pool is unbounded
14:34	koalallama	technomancy: lein 2.3.4 on 1.8.0_05 / os X.. should I just not do this? or is this a bug?
14:34	amalloy	pmap is the function that chooses to spin up only cores+2 futures
14:34	gfredericks	amalloy: ohhokayIsee
14:35	gfredericks	good to know
14:36	koalallama	technomancy: lein repl from an empty directory, or a "normal sized" project doesn't show same behavior
14:36	gtrak	tpope: cool!
14:36	gtrak	i haven't heard any feedback about the op itself, but I don't foresee any pushback
14:37	gtrak	here's where I opened it up: https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider-nrepl/issues/36
14:37	technomancy	koalallama: is there a src/ dir in your home or something?
14:37	tpope	gtrak: guess I'll request a pull
14:38	amalloy	technomancy: i have src/ in my home, and lein repl starts like a flash
14:38	koalallama	technomancy: there is no ~/src, but there are "src" directories deep inside
14:39	eraserhd	Does anyone have an example of using tools.analyzer within a macro?
14:39	koalallama	curious if lein repl tries to walk my directories looking for something
14:39	coventry	Sounds like a good application for strace, or whatever the equivalent is on OS X.
14:40	eraserhd	tbaldridge: IIRC, you were using it for the core.async `go` macro when you gave the tools.analyzer talk, but I don't see that as a dep now.
14:40	justin_smith	coventry: or whatever the jvm equivalent is
14:40	amalloy	koalallama: it should only walk upwards, looking for project.clj. maybe you have some kind of circular symlink? i can't think of a way that's possible on the path from /, but you never know
14:40	tbaldridge	eraserhd: it's in a branch called "analyzer"
14:41	eraserhd	tbaldridge: Oh, hello, there it is. Suhweet!
14:43	koalallama	ok, 2 minutes later CPU is back to 0.3%
14:44	technomancy	koalallama: definitely a bug, yeah
14:45	justin_smith	coventry: koalallama: the ibm jvm has a trace option (others may also have something, will keep checking it out)
14:45	technomancy	koalallama: does it happen with `lein run -m clojure.main -e nil` too?
14:45	justin_smith	also check out jstack - if you run it enough times you should get a good idea what it is grinding on
14:46	koalallama	technomancy: nope, that runs and ends in about 2 seconds
14:47	amalloy	yeah, jstack is what i'd try (if i didn't have yourkit already set up)
14:47	ghadishayban	gfredericks: beware of bounding blocked takes on a channel/timeout to < 1024
14:48	coventry	justin_smith: Cool.
14:48	ghadishayban	s/beware/ensure bounding
14:49	technomancy	koalallama: how about `lein repl :start` and (in a different terminal) `lein repl :connect`?
14:50	gfredericks	ghadishayban: wat? you mean no more than 1024 consumers trying to read from a single channel?
14:50	koalallama	here's a jstack while it's spinning: https://gist.github.com/ctrlrsf/5f21ce7311158b58c1f9
14:51	ghadishayban	gfredericks: Yes it's intentionally bounding. It's ok to have a channel with whatever size buffer, but not more than 1024 "pending" or blocked takes
14:52	koalallama	technomancy: yup, CPU burns with just lein repl :start, before even :connect is ran
14:52	justin_smith	https://gist.github.com/ctrlrsf/5f21ce7311158b58c1f9#file-jstack-lein-repl-1-L241 this thread is suspicious
14:52	ghadishayban	gfredericks: https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/async/impl/channels.clj#L168-L171
14:52	gfredericks	ghadishayban: cool; I don't think that's remotely an issue for me
14:53	ghadishayban	use a mult + taps if it is
14:53	koalallama	note, the repl is responsive, just notice the CPU usage of the process is high and laptop starts smoking ;)
14:53	justin_smith	koalallama: at that point there are a bunch of frames locked on the same shit, and doing something with the fs
14:53	gfredericks	ghadishayban: looks like it would bark loudly if I had a problem?
14:54	justin_smith	koalallama: all the frames are locking on the same lazyseq object, and the trace is suspiciously deep
14:54	hiredman	reply pulls in clojure-complete
14:54	justin_smith	could be a bad recursion
14:54	ghadishayban	gfredericks: yup. but possibly in some async context somewhere
14:54	hiredman	clojure-complete scans files looking for completions
14:55	wink	code golf time. can anyone shorten that? :) https://gist.github.com/anonymous/11227866
14:55	justin_smith	oh yeah, there is a bunch of reply in that stack trace, good call
14:56	amalloy	(apply + (map read-string) (s/split x #","))
14:56	technomancy	weird; it should just be scanning the classpath
14:57	amalloy	er, mis-parenthesized that, but you get the idea
14:57	AimHere	,((apply + (map read-string) (s/split x #",")) "")
14:57	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: s, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:57	amalloy	,(clojure.string/split "" #",")
14:57	clojurebot	[""]
14:57	AimHere	,((apply + (map read-string) (string/split x #",")) "")
14:57	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: string, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:57	amalloy	booo
14:57	tpope	gtrak: submitted
14:57	AimHere	,((apply + (map read-string) (clojure.string/split x #",")) "")
14:57	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: x in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:57	amalloy	(apply + (map read-string (filter seq (s/split x #","))))
14:57	wink	hehe thanks
14:57	technomancy	koalallama: is it possible something got put on the classpath that shouldn't be there?
14:58	eraserhd	wink: (apply + (read-string x))
14:58	technomancy	in any case clojure-complete should have a (take 1024 ...) on its file-seq just to avoid going completely insane
14:58	koalallama	btw, find ~/ -type f \| wc -l = 271897
14:58	AimHere	,(#(read-string (str "(+" % ")")) "3,4,5,6")
14:58	clojurebot	(3 4 5 6)
14:58	justin_smith	,(#(apply + (map read-string (filter seq (clojure.string/split % #",")))) "")
14:58	clojurebot	0
14:59	gtrak	tpope: tpope, cool!
14:59	eraserhd	,(let [x "5,3"] (apply + (read-string (str "0," x))))
14:59	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
15:00	eraserhd	,(let [x "5,3"] (apply + (read-string (str \[ x \]))))
15:00	clojurebot	8
15:00	justin_smith	oh, tricky
15:00	koalallama	technomancy: bingo! here was my CLASSPATH env: ".:/usr/local/lib/antlr-4.1-complete.jar:"
15:00	technomancy	youch
15:01	eraserhd	,(def c #(apply + (read-string (str \[ % \]))))
15:01	clojurebot	#'sandbox/c
15:01	koalallama	how long has that been there?
15:01	eraserhd	,(c "")
15:01	clojurebot	0
15:01	llasram	Pulling ANTLR in will do it
15:01	eraserhd	,(c "5,3")
15:01	clojurebot	8
15:01	wink	eraserhd: horrible, but brilliant :)
15:01	AimHere	,(def c #(eval (read-string (str $ \+ % $))))
15:01	clojurebot	#'sandbox/c
15:01	AimHere	(c "3,4,5,5")
15:01	justin_smith	llasram: I would have thought . was the problem
15:02	AimHere	,(c "3,4,5,5")
15:02	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
15:02	eraserhd	wink: I excel at "horrible". Brilliance is by accident..
15:02	llasram	justin_smith: My humor-jokes may need some work
15:02	justin_smith	heh
15:02	koalallama	justin_smith: thanks for the help
15:03	justin_smith	,(do (def c #(eval (read-string (str $ \+ % $)))) (c "3,4,5,5"))
15:03	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
15:03	justin_smith	koalallama: np
15:03	wink	I think I am forever tainted too much from imperative languages though
15:03	koalallama	technomancy: thanks, sorry for wasting your time. I knew I liked you since I saw your name in my clojure book
15:03	wink	as I started with let [a (...) b (... a) c(... b)] c)
15:03	technomancy	heh; no worries
15:03	wink	and only then rearranged it to short form
15:04	technomancy	koalallama: I think it'd be reasonable to open an issue with clojure-complete fwiw
15:04	koalallama	btw, source of that classpath was: https://github.com/antlr/antlr4 step 3 has this: export CLASSPATH=".:/usr/local/lib/antlr-4.2.1-complete.jar:$CLASSPATH"
15:06	justin_smith	koalallama: I think that instead one could just put antlr-complete "4.2.1" in the dev profile in .lein/profiles.clj
15:06	justin_smith	for an even more thorough fix
15:07	llasram	justin_smith: Well, assuming you are only using leiningen. Well, and populating :dev in profiles.clj is probably bad
15:07	koalallama	yup, except I don't even need antlr anymore. this has been there from another project almost 1 year ago
15:08	eraserhd	tbaldridge: The :op :local is specific to the go macro, it's not what analyzer wants, right?
15:08	gtrak	technomancy: I yearn for the day when we can remove clojure-complete from leiningen.
15:08	justin_smith	llasram: if not using lein, then one could use a shell script or whatever your alternative tool uses to manage the path
15:08	llasram	justin_smith: totes
15:08	tbaldridge	eraserhd: no, in the form (let [x 42] x) the body of the let will be a :local node
15:09	tbaldridge	eraserhd: locals can either be arguments or bindings from lets/loops
15:09	technomancy	gtrak: you can omit it if it causes trouble
15:09	eraserhd	tbaldridge: Oh, OK.
15:09	technomancy	but I guess you don't always realize it
15:09	gtrak	technomancy: I just want everyone else to stop depending on it.
15:10	gtrak	implicit deps, bleh.
15:11	technomancy	at least there are no transitive implicit deps
15:11	technomancy	that's where I draw the line
15:13	koalallama	technomancy: re: issue with clojure-complete, is there really an issue if I just happened to add a super huge directory to my classpath by mistake? looks like the code that's running eventually completes after 2+ minutes
15:15	technomancy	koalallama: I think it would be better if clojure-complete only bothered checking the first thousand or so files
15:16	koalallama	sounds reasonable
15:32	gtrak	technomancy: err well, [any elisp completion frontend plus god knows what else] -> lein -> clojure-complete, transitive in some sense.
15:34	gtrak	come to think of it, I need an easy way to boot up cider-nrepl middlewares outside of lein
15:38	koalallama	I gotta get some rest, I will look into this further and open issue with clojure-complete
15:39	koalallama	thanks again, all
15:41	rasmusto	,(some (rest "zzzz"))
15:41	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core/some>
15:41	justin_smith	,(some rest (rest "zzzz"))
15:41	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Character>
15:42	justin_smith	,(some #(do %) (rest "zzzz"))
15:42	clojurebot	\z
15:42	rasmusto	the whole string -> charseq always felt a bit strange to me
15:42	rasmusto	s/bit/byte
15:42	justin_smith	I think a string should become chars when treated as a seq, and by extension a char should be treated as bits
15:43	jcromartie	wat
15:43	jcromartie	no way
15:43	jcromartie	then integers should be too
15:43	rasmusto	,(seq 1)
15:43	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
15:43	justin_smith	/s
15:43	justin_smith	right :)
15:43	jcromartie	OK
15:43	justin_smith	sorry, was a very dry joke
15:43	rasmusto	turtles all the way down
15:44	justin_smith	but it is the same logic - just taken a couple steps too far
15:44	llasram	And also is what Ruby does
15:44	justin_smith	(dec ruby)
15:44	lazybot	⇒ -1
15:44	llasram	Sounds about right
15:44	jcromartie	llasram: how so?
15:44	rasmusto	(dec seq)
15:44	lazybot	⇒ -1
15:45	hfaafb	inc and dec are so stateful :3
15:45	hyPiRion	$karma rubby
15:45	llasram	jcromartie: Try `2[0]`, `2[1]` some time
15:45	lazybot	rubby has karma -1.
15:46	jcromartie	no...
15:46	jcromartie	that's..
15:46	jcromartie	well, OK then
15:47	jcromartie	if I can index it I should be able to get a sequence out of it
15:47	jcromartie	but I guess not necessarily… hashes, sets...
15:47	justin_smith	rubby is ruby's sketchy cousin who isn't allowed near schools or parks
15:47	TEttinger	with good reason. rubby on rails was a fiasco
15:48	justin_smith	lol
15:48	gfredericks	rubby in ruts
15:49	TEttinger	jcromartie, you want individual bytes out of the internal representation of objects, when you treat them as seqs, right?
15:50	gfredericks	I want a timeseries of voltage measurements from the wires
15:51	justin_smith	hah, try to loop on an array and get the sequence of bits in the pointer...
15:51	rasmusto	whoa, this right shift key is pretty efficient!
15:52	justin_smith	,(bit-shift-right 42 1)
15:52	clojurebot	21
15:52	jcromartie	https://gist.github.com/jcromartie/11229825
15:53	llasram	Perfect. Ruby takes PRs, right?
15:54	gfredericks	what's Integer in ruby?
15:54	gfredericks	I thought they had Fixnum and Bignum
15:54	jcromartie	Integer is the superclass of Fixnum
15:54	gfredericks	oh righto
15:55	devn	,(doc add-watch)
15:55	clojurebot	"([reference key fn]); Adds a watch function to an agent/atom/var/ref reference. The watch fn must be a fn of 4 args: a key, the reference, its old-state, its new-state. Whenever the reference's state might have been changed, any registered watches will have their functions called. The watch fn will be called synchronously, on the agent's thread if an agent, before any pending sends if agent or re...
15:55	gfredericks	I am rubby rusty; rubsty
16:03	mdrogali`	Is there a way to pull up a repl from a jar that contains Clojure?
16:03	mdrogali`	It's a prebuilt uberjar that behaviors differently with production dependencies rather than dev deps.
16:03	mdrogali`	behaves, rather*
16:04	turbofail	java -cp <uberjar-name>.jar clojure.main
16:04	michaniskin	java -jar your-file.jar clojure.main
16:04	michaniskin	oh right
16:04	michaniskin	nevermind
16:05	mdrogali`	Thanks guys. I did that, but I wasn't able to require/use any of my namespaces.
16:05	turbofail	they must not be in your uberjar then
16:05	mdrogali`	Oh, hold up! Yeah, this was my mistake.
16:05	mdrogali`	Thanks guys & gals
16:05	justin_smith	try unzipping the jar (it is a zip file) and seeing what is in it
16:06	rasmusto	.jar.gz
16:06	dbasch	jar tvf
16:06	rasmusto	tvvvf
16:07	justin_smith	well since it is a zip file you can just use whatever tool you would usually use to explore a zip (I open it in emacs for example)
16:09	kenrestivo	my god, the test coverage on bitcoinj is... impressive
16:09	kenrestivo	compile takes 2 seconds, tests takes 2 minutes.
16:09	justin_smith	well consider that btc is meant to be computationally expensive
16:09	justin_smith	so I bet the tests spend a lot of time in CPU
16:10	kenrestivo	btw, https://www.refheap.com/79395
16:10	kenrestivo	they also fail too :-(
16:11	guns	Is anyone aware of any popular Clojure libraries with underscores in the _namespace_ name?
16:11	kenrestivo	woops wrong chan
16:11	justin_smith	seems like a bad idea... but no I haven't seen it
16:13	dbasch	kenrestivo: are you doing something bitcoin-related?
16:14	kenrestivo	dbasch: i was. and might be again. always checking to see how things are progressing
16:14	dbasch	kenrestivo: I’m working on a cryptocurrency project in clojure
16:15	kenrestivo	dbasch: cool! an altcoin, or something totally different?
16:15	dbasch	kenrestivo: https://cointipping.com/
16:15	rasmusto	dojecoin
16:15	guns	justin_smith: thanks. You're a pretty good data point
16:16	dbasch	kenrestivo: but it’s not really about dogecoin, there’s more beyond it
16:16	kenrestivo	dbasch: looks like react, will have to try it on a js enabled browser
16:16	dbasch	kenrestivo: yes, it’s Om
16:16	dbasch	kenrestivo: I optimized it for mobile
16:17	dbasch	well, “optimized” meaning that it sucks less on mobile
16:17	justin_smith	guns: aww, shucks
16:18	kenrestivo	dbasch: neat. what are you using for a back end as a bitcoin network client?
16:18	dbasch	kenrestivo: dogecoind
16:18	kenrestivo	with REST from clojure, i suppose?
16:19	dbasch	kenrestivo: yes, https://github.com/aviad/clj-btc
16:19	kenrestivo	well done, glad to see someone doing that
16:23	dbasch	kenrestivo: that’s not mine btw
16:23	justin_smith	oooh - lein search gives a stack trace when you do "lein search _"
16:25	justin_smith	technomancy: lucene barfs on "lein search _" https://www.refheap.com/79444 worth a bug report or just a pointless corner case?
16:26	technomancy	justin_smith: how about a patch? =)
16:26	justin_smith	hah
16:26	justin_smith	I'll consider it
16:27	technomancy	bug report would be fine
16:27	gfredericks	justin_smith: you should whole-heartedly commit to intending to do it
16:27	justin_smith	is lein search part of the main lein repo?
16:28	justin_smith	gfredericks: I am setting aside the procrastination time in my calendar as we speak
16:28	justin_smith	answering my own question: yes
17:08	dbasch	technomancy: lein search works fine in a random directory, but if I run it inside a project of mine this happens: https://www.refheap.com/79475
17:09	technomancy	dbasch: do you have :repositories set in there?
17:09	dbasch	yes
17:09	technomancy	to a server that isn't returning proper response codes for not-found?
17:09	dbasch	technomancy: probably
17:09	dbasch	if I remove repositories it works fine
17:10	technomancy	still would be better to get an error message instead of a stack trace
17:10	technomancy	feel free to open an issue
17:10	dbasch	ok
17:18	eraserhd	tbaldridge: Is there something in tools.analyzer to pretty-print an AST (that terminates :). Also, is there a pre-existing function to reconstitute source forms from a modified AST?
17:24	tbaldridge	on the latter it something like emit-clj and it's in the analyzer codebase.
17:24	tbaldridge	on the first, it pretty-prints if you do a pre/post walk and rip out all the :env values
17:25	eraserhd	tbaldridge: Cool. Thanks again.
17:29	Bronsa	eraserhd: if you're using t.a.j/analyze, it already strips the :ns key in :env so there's no problem in prining that
17:30	Bronsa	eraserhd: also what tbaldridge was talking about is https://github.com/clojure/tools.analyzer.jvm/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/analyzer/passes/jvm/emit_form.clj
17:30	tbaldridge	ah there we go, it's in the jvm source
17:30	danlamanna	seems to be nothing out there with regards to comparing binary files in clojure
17:30	Bronsa	tbaldridge: it's in both, the jvm one simply adds support for the jvm specific ops
17:31	stompyj	kenrestivo: we never REST here in the clojure community!
17:33	dbasch	danlamanna: if they are not huge, you can just slurp them and compare them
17:34	Frozenlock	stompyj: That's why we are FIRST
17:34	dbasch	danlamanna: otherwise you’d have to read them lazily
17:34	stompyj	LOL
17:34	stompyj	i regret nothing!
17:34	danlamanna	dbasch: may or may not be, i think i'm going to follow http://www.jguru.com/faq/view.jsp?EID=66830 as a guideline.
17:40	eraserhd	Bronsa: I didn't think to use t.a.j analyze, I'm just using t.a analyze. Hrmm... should I be?
17:40	Bronsa	eraserhd: if you want to analyze clojure source, yes
17:40	eraserhd	I guess supporting clojurescript is a future concern to not worry about now.
18:00	dbasch	danlamanna: you can optimize this for performance, but it works https://www.refheap.com/79493
18:00	rukor	hi please which unit testing framework would you recommend, ive seen clojure.test, midje and speclj and am leaning towards speclj
18:02	egghead	grr, fighting with jsch :(
18:03	technomancy	rukor: clojure.test would be my recommendation
18:04	rukor	technomancy: thanks, are you able to quickly indicate why
18:06	technomancy	rukor: midje is a lot more complicated and does fancy things that look neat but often cause difficult-to-debug error messages. I don't know much about speclj; it doesn't seem widely used.
18:06	rukor	technomancy: thanks, that makes a lot of sense based on what Ive seen so far.
18:06	technomancy	clojure.test is very obvious how it works
18:08	rukor	yes
18:10	seangrove	given {:x 10 :y {:z 20}}, how can I destructure x y and z in a single destructuring statement?
18:13	guns	seangrove: {x :x y :y {z :z} :y}
18:13	Bronsa	guns: does that really work?
18:13	Frozenlock	,(let [a {:x 10 :y {:z 20}}] (let [{x :x y :y {z :z} :y} a] [x y z]))
18:13	amalloy	Bronsa: should, yeah
18:13	clojurebot	[10 {:z 20} 20]
18:13	justin_smith	guns - extraneous :y in there
18:13	amalloy	guns, well, {x :x {z :z :as y}} would be more normal though
18:14	Bronsa	uh.
18:14	amalloy	{x :x {z :z :as y} :y}
18:14	guns	TIL
18:14	seangrove	Ah, interesting, I always use {:keys [...]}, didn't know this syntax before
18:14	Frozenlock	seangrove: same here
18:14	amalloy	seangrove: :keys is shorthand for this
18:14	justin_smith	,(let [{x :x y :y {z :z} :y} {:x 10 :y {:z 20}}] [x y z])
18:14	clojurebot	[10 {:z 20} 20]
18:14	turbofail	hm. is requiring the same namespace from multiple threads a Bad Idea™?
18:14	seangrove	amalloy: Good to know
18:14	amalloy	see also :syms, :strs
18:15	justin_smith	I totally would not have intuited that the above would work
18:15	gtrak	turbofail: this is clojure.
18:15	Frozenlock	Must have missed it in the official Clojure manual™
18:15	hiredman	turbofail: multithreaded code loading is a bad idea
18:15	justin_smith	given the usual map rules etc.
18:15	amalloy	justin_smith: actually, making this work is one of the reasons destructuring syntax looks the way it does
18:15	justin_smith	interesting
18:15	justin_smith	ahh the two :y instances are rhs, n/m
18:15	amalloy	{:y y, :y {:z z}} is the alternative syntax, right? but you can't write that because it has a duplicate key
18:16	turbofail	ok guess i'll stick a lock on it then
18:16	justin_smith	amalloy: oh yeah, makes much more sense now
18:16	amalloy	but you'll never want to give the same local name to two values, so the actual syntax has no such conflicts
18:16	gtrak	turbofail: transitive ns's won't get eval'd multiple times, if you're using require. probably best to keep it simple.
18:16	seangrove	amalloy: Can you then mix that and {:keys ..} ?
18:16	amalloy	naturally
18:17	amalloy	{:keys [x y] {:keys [z]} :y} is another way to write it
18:17	seangrove	(fn [idx {layout :layout {:keys [offer-width offer-height row col row-span col-span]} :layout :as child}])
18:17	seangrove	I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not. I think probably not.
18:18	turbofail	gtrak: well the problem is that the same namespace is getting loaded from multiple threads at the same time
18:18	justin_smith	seangrove: with some well spaced line breaks it is slightly better, but probably simpler to read if broken up a bit into let clauses
18:18	gtrak	yea, that's a risk until it's fully loaded, seems like
18:18	seangrove	justin_smith: Yeah, splitting it up
18:19	turbofail	it actually works OK right up until i have a macro-defining macro, and then it starts throwing "can't take a value of a macro" things around
18:19	oinksoft	how do i make a clojure macro refer to itself? i'm having trouble getting a macro to work that should expand itself with default parameters
18:20	Bronsa	oinksoft: (defmacro x ([] `(x ..)) ..)
18:20	justin_smith	the easy way is probably to make a recursive function invoked by the macro
18:20	Bronsa	oinksoft: you really don't want to do things like (defmacro x ([] (x ..)) ..)
18:21	oinksoft	Bronsa: why is that?
18:22	justin_smith	extra effort and complexity, with no added functionality
18:22	Bronsa	oinksoft: because x is not already a macro inside the defmacro body
18:22	Bronsa	justin_smith: plus it doesn't work :P
18:22	justin_smith	ahh, fair enough :) I would know that if I had seen fit to try I guess :)
18:23	amalloy	Bronsa: eh? x is a macro inside its body. it's just not one you typically want to use
18:23	Bronsa	amalloy: nope, defmacro expands to (do (defn x ..) (.setMacro #'x true))
18:23	oinksoft	yes, best practice. ok, so how do i do what i said i want to do?
18:23	Bronsa	it's still a function inside the body
18:24	justin_smith	oinksoft: macros are for special evaluation rules - do that and only that in the macro, and put all actual runtime logic in a function
18:24	Bronsa	oinksoft: I already told you how in my first reply
18:24	oinksoft	Bronsa: and said it was a bad idea?
18:24	amalloy	that's really interesting. i knew that, but i hadn't thought about what it meant for referring to x inside its own body
18:24	oinksoft	this is what i have now, it doesn't even run. http://www.bpaste.net/show/ykUCiove4b1TQNBDkSvx/
18:25	Bronsa	oinksoft: no, that was about my second reply. `(x) vs (x)
18:25	oinksoft	oh, ok
18:25	oinksoft	well i guess i was doing the right thing, but this results in a very informative error about not being able to make ISeq from symbol
18:26	justin_smith	~@ should be ~
18:26	clojurebot	No entiendo
18:26	Bronsa	oinksoft: unless you actually want your macro to be invoked like (deflogger [something] ..), drop the @
18:26	justin_smith	`(~@(:a :b) :c)
18:26	justin_smith	,`(~@(:a :b) :c)
18:26	clojurebot	(:c)
18:27	justin_smith	,'`(~@(:a :b) :c)
18:27	clojurebot	(clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat (:a :b) (clojure.core/list :c)))
18:27	hyPiRion	justin_smith: what are you trying to do? (:a :b) returns nil
18:27	justin_smith	ahh of course :P
18:27	justin_smith	,`(~@[:a :b] :c)
18:27	clojurebot	(:a :b :c)
18:27	justin_smith	got my quoting mixed up
18:28	justin_smith	,`(~@:a :b :c) ; this is your error oinksoft
18:28	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Keyword>
18:28	oinksoft	Bronsa: which one? that's what i always ask clojure too.
18:28	Bronsa	oinksoft: read above what justin_smith told you
18:28	justin_smith	there shouldn't be any ~@ in that code, it should always be ~
18:30	oinksoft	got it, thanks
18:31	oinksoft	i don't understand this. i thought ~@ is when you want to include an variable inline, in a list
18:31	justin_smith	(defmacro deflogger [name & args] `(def ~name (apply new-logger ~args)))
18:31	justin_smith	then define new-logger with multiple arities
18:31	justin_smith	much cleaner
18:32	oinksoft	i see, thanks
18:33	oinksoft	clojure.core/name is defined. shouldn't i not define variables called "name"?
18:33	justin_smith	it's fine unless the same function needs the name function
18:33	justin_smith	fair point though, if something is clear and isn't in clojure.core that is likely better
18:34	oinksoft	ok, thanks, just brought it up because i keep wanting to name vars `name' but my editor hihglights it to remind me it's in core
18:34	justin_smith	I just felt like the name of the macro on the preceding line already tells you about deflogger, so putting that in the name is just noise
18:34	oinksoft	i agree
18:34	oinksoft	why did removing the @ fix the macro?
18:35	justin_smith	did you see my demo above of what @ does?
18:35	Bronsa	i wish locals shadowing vars would emit a warning. I've wasted quite some time one day debugging a macro that I wrote that shadowed `name` and then I used it a good amount of numbers above.
18:36	oinksoft	hm clojure core code doesn't seem shy about using `name'
18:36	oinksoft	i was looking for example code, what poeple call variable names :)
18:36	oinksoft	interesting Bronsa
18:36	TimMc	Bronsa: I think using a linter would probably be a better choice.
18:36	justin_smith	I also blatantly call things "count"
18:37	TimMc	count, name, class, type...
18:37	lemonodor	i liked the CL earmuff thing for globals/specials, which prevented collisions with local vars.
18:37	TimMc	come at me bro
18:37	amalloy	i give all my global functions one-letter names, so they don't conflict with my descriptive local-variable names
18:37	lemonodor	but it seems that clojure convenion is earmuffs only for vars that you expect users to want to rebind?
18:37	hyPiRion	TimMc: klass plz.
18:38	TimMc	clazz
18:38	justin_smith	cnt is delightfully ambiguous
18:38	oinksoft	um justin_smith your last example seems to leave out defaulting the first arg to a default value
18:38	oinksoft	was that intentional? did i miss something?
18:39	hyPiRion	justin_smith: oh my, you just made me realise this. My master thesis uses `cnt` as the size variable.
18:39	justin_smith	ahh, the function can't do that based on arg count?
18:39	justin_smith	better lawyer up before HR gets on your case
18:39	justin_smith	(or the academic equiv.)
18:40	hyPiRion	justin_smith: it's of no worry. If they want to wade through 6k lines of C code with worse #ifdef usage than OpenSSL, they are free to do so.
18:41	justin_smith	oinksoft: if the fn is already multi-arity I would be inclined to make the fn take one arg or two, and with a collection as the second arg - then take out apply
18:41	justin_smith	but I am very eager about taking any complexity out of macros that I possibly can, ymmv
18:42	oinksoft	justin_smith: i have no idea what you meant by that
18:42	oinksoft	justin_smith: your comments about lawyers/HR/academia
18:42	l1x	hi
18:42	justin_smith	oinksoft: cnt as an abbreviation for count is ambigous and to some readers may be seen as offensive / sexist
18:43	justin_smith	it was a joke, probably too subtle
18:43	l1x	i have a list (1 2 3 4 5) I need to get pairs from the list like (1 2) (2 3) (3 4) (4 5) what is the best function to do that
18:43	oinksoft	yea, maybe w/ more time using clojure i'll get it :)
18:44	oinksoft	thanks again
18:44	justin_smith	,(partition 2 1 [1 2 3 4 5])
18:44	clojurebot	((1 2) (2 3) (3 4) (4 5))
18:44	hyPiRion	oinksoft: It's not Clojure-related: If you accidentally forget the o in count, you know..
18:44	justin_smith	oinksoft: np
18:44	l1x	thanks justin
18:45	justin_smith	np
18:45	hyPiRion	I think rhickey seriously decided to name what now is named cond-> to cont->, but when someone in IRC read it out loud and his coworkers laughed, that name was quickly dismissed
18:46	hyPiRion	yeah, http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2012-10-12.html#16:08a
18:46	justin_smith	it may sound like a Japanese name out loud Kontaro
18:53	rasmusto	(inc partition)
18:53	lazybot	⇒ 1
18:55	rasmusto	(inc ergo->)
18:55	lazybot	⇒ 1
18:56	justin_smith	ergo->?
18:56	rasmusto	justin_smith: was one of the names pitched in those irc logs, made me chuckle
18:56	justin_smith	,(resolve 'ergo->)
18:56	clojurebot	nil
18:56	justin_smith	ahh
18:57	justin_smith	assuming->
18:57	rasmusto	hence->
19:40	egghead	huh
19:40	egghead	I've got some code that works in a clj repl but not in my main method... what gives
19:41	justin_smith	does it involve a call to for, or map?
19:42	amalloy	egghead: i'm with justin_smith on this. you're doing something lazy, which gets forced when the repl tries to print the result
19:43	egghead	uggu, I wish this problem didn't rear it's head in such a gnarly way
19:43	egghead	i'm not using map or anything like that, but I am using futures
19:44	joegallo	how about you gist your code?
19:45	seangrove	dnolen_: Heh, I was just talking with the Meteor guys about Mori yesterday, they seemed pretty excited about it
19:45	dnolen_	seangrove: yeah I got a pretty nice email from one of the devs, looks like they got a big performance boost out of it
19:51	gfredericks	streaming (jdbc) db query results from an http service takes a surprising amount of extra work
19:52	Frozenlock	eh.. I'm still in the 'anything' takes a surprising amount of extra work. :-p
19:52	pdurbin	dnolen_: you're the one who was on http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/2014/04/10/david-nolen-cognicast-episode-054 ? great episode
19:52	dnolen_	pdurbin: yep, thanks
19:53	pdurbin	dnolen_: you prompted me to listen to this: ▶ Pete Hunt: React: Rethinking best practices -- JSConf EU 2013 - YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7cQ3mrcKaY
19:53	hiredman	gfredericks: is it really that surprising?
19:53	gfredericks	hiredman: in as much as I am surprised, yes
19:53	hiredman	gfredericks: are you paginating?
19:53	dnolen_	pdurbin: yep that's a pretty awesome talk
19:54	gfredericks	hiredman: no
19:54	egghead	derp
19:54	hiredman	gfredericks: using ring?
19:54	egghead	try finally, future value, close the connection the future is delivered on
19:54	gfredericks	hiredman: yep
19:54	egghead	WHOOPS
19:54	hiredman	gfredericks: ah, well, streaming with ring is tricky
19:55	gfredericks	ditto for java.jdbc/postgres
19:55	pdurbin	dnolen_: yeah. I enjoyed it. Next I'm thinking of checking out https://github.com/tastejs/todomvc/tree/gh-pages/architecture-examples/react
20:00	dnolen_	pdurbin: it's good stuff, #reactjs is great many of the core React devs and many friendly users hang out there
20:17	pdurbin	dnolen_: ah. thanks
20:19	bbloom	Bronsa: are there clj-in-clj ports of the data structures anywhere besides cljs?
20:19	bbloom	Bronsa: and gvec
20:20	Bronsa	bbloom: uhm, not complete that I know of. There's https://github.com/mylesmegyesi/clojure.core/ but I don't think it's even remotely complete
20:21	TEttinger	clojurec
20:22	Bronsa	TEttinger that's really just cljs
20:23	bbloom	ok thanks guys, i'll just work off cljs
20:23	TEttinger	yeah, good point
20:23	TEttinger	https://github.com/schani/clojurec for reference
20:23	bbloom	it's really a shame we don't have a good cross-plat story that we need to repeat this work everywhere
20:24	bbloom	i'm going to attempt to make eclj work such that the standard if statement works w/ class-plat thanks to partial evaluation
20:24	bbloom	& abstract interpretation... ie don't barf if a symbol is undefined on a known not to run code path
20:24	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: abstract in this context
20:24	bbloom	going to take a crack at trying to boot up core under my metacircular interpreter tomorrow :-)
20:25	bbloom	(after a weekish of no meaningful work done :-P)
20:26	TEttinger	bbloom: metacircular like maru?
20:26	TEttinger	there's a few small lisps I have seen that use metacircular runtimes. Maru and Tort are two of them, Maru does work on windows
20:27	bbloom	TEttinger: no compiler yet, but that's the goal
20:28	TEttinger	pretty sure bbloom is one of several people up to the task in here. myself not one of them
20:28	Bronsa	bbloom: good luck w/ loading core. IIRC if you don't get def metadata handling right it might choke when redefining `fn`
20:29	Bronsa	at least, that's what happened the first time I tried with t.e.j
20:29	bbloom	thanks guys :-)
20:33	gfredericks	clojurebot: t.e.j is tools.enterprise.java
20:33	oinksoft	OK, what does this combination of destructuring do? (defn f [& [a & {:keys [k]}] ...). I know what & and :keys mean in the basic case
20:33	clojurebot	In Ordnung
20:34	gfredericks	oinksoft: a is the first arg, the rest of them are collected into a map, and the :k key is destructured
20:34	oinksoft	gfredericks: what is the [& [a for?
20:34	oinksoft	gfredericks: rather than [a
20:34	amalloy	oinksoft: what gfredericks said, but i'd also add that that kind of & nonsense is pretty tacky imo
20:34	gfredericks	it allows calling with no args
20:34	gfredericks	,(defn f [& [a & {:keys [k]}]] [a k])
20:34	clojurebot	#'sandbox/f
20:34	gfredericks	,(f)
20:34	clojurebot	[nil nil]
20:35	gfredericks	,(f 1 :foo 12 :k 39)
20:35	clojurebot	[1 39]
20:35	gfredericks	,(f 42)
20:35	clojurebot	[42 nil]
20:35	oinksoft	so people do [& [a & [b & [c]]] to get a function with 0-3 params?
20:35	gfredericks	[& [a b c]] does the same thing
20:35	oinksoft	it would seem that form can't accept 1 or 2
20:35	gfredericks	,(defn g [& [a b c]] [a b c])
20:35	clojurebot	#'sandbox/g
20:35	gfredericks	,(g :one-arg)
20:35	clojurebot	[:one-arg nil nil]
20:35	Bronsa	,(let [[a b c] [1]] [a b c])
20:36	clojurebot	[1 nil nil]
20:36	oinksoft	neat
20:36	Bronsa	,(let [[a b c] [1 2 3 4]] [a b c])
20:36	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
20:36	gfredericks	that's just how destructuring works, not a specific feature of functions
20:36	gfredericks	any function that starts with [& ...] can take any number of args
20:37	gfredericks	I will join amalloy in grumping at you if you write functions like that
20:37	amalloy	i always write (fn [& [& [& [& [x]]]]] x) to make sure x is really optional
20:37	oinksoft	back to the original function signature, in which ways could this be called?
20:37	gfredericks	(inc amalloy)
20:37	lazybot	⇒ 103
20:37	gfredericks	oinksoft: I gave a bunch of examples up there ^
20:39	oinksoft	gfredericks: oh, it's in your first example :)
20:41	yedi	how would one do this sort of thing in clj (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/286921/efficiently-replace-all-accented-characters-in-a-string)
20:45	amalloy	yedi: why would you do that? instead, sort the strings according to the right locale
20:45	justin_smith	,(apply str (replace {\a \z \b \y} "abba")) ; yedi:
20:45	clojurebot	"zyyz"
20:46	yedi	well i don't particularly care about the sorting, i just wanna convert strings into their closest ascii equivalent
20:46	yedi	since the app i'm building only makes sense for english words
20:46	justin_smith	there may be a way to do it with string ops only in one pass, which is better than the string / seq / string conversion sequence
20:46	amalloy	http://stackoverflow.com/a/12889868/625403
20:46	yedi	but sometimes ill get strings like Jesús
20:47	amalloy	and you're really set on 7-bit ascii? i have to say, allowing people to use whatever characters they want seems like a much nicer solution
20:47	yedi	the app i'm using literally requires english words, since it's based on an english rhyming dictionary
20:48	seangrove	bbloom: Part of the gripe of absolute vs fixed vs relative in css yesterday http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6794000/fixed-position-but-relative-to-container
20:49	amalloy	how sure are you there are no "funny characters" in english text? eg, coop is pronounced as one syllable, like a chicken coop; coöp is two syllables, like coöperative
20:50	amalloy	plus english has incorpororated words like voilà
20:50	yedi	amalloy: you're definitely right, but it doesn't seem that this takes that into account: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/yedi/rhyme-finder/master/resources/cmudict.txt
20:51	yedi	i couldn't find a separate coöp
20:51	yedi	but that doesn't mean i shouldn't allow ppl to add their own pronunctiations to the dictionary that are missing
20:51	amalloy	so you have an input word that you want to look up in someone else's rudely-ascii rhyming dictionary
20:52	yedi	yea essentially (Carnegie Melon's Rhyming Dictionary, i think it's the most comprehensive one for the english language)
20:52	amalloy	i think the only realistic thing you can do is what justin_smith suggested: a manually-defined list of character substitutions you want to do
20:52	amalloy	unicode is wide and weird, and an automated solution will do really surprising things
20:53	yedi	i think i agree with you though, i can always add new entries to that dictionary so it should support other characters. So i'll find an alternate way to fix that issue
20:54	justin_smith	,{\☃ "snowman"}
20:54	clojurebot	{\☃ "snowman"}
20:54	amalloy	like there are stupid characters such as http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2075/index.htm: SUPERSCRIPT FIVE
20:54	amalloy	and java will tell you that's a digit whose value is 5
20:54	justin_smith	that is useful⁵
20:55	dbasch	one of the most abused features of unicode on twitter and facebook: uʍop-ǝpısdn
20:55	oinksoft	i am positively tickled that core has a function named lazy-cat.
20:56	justin_smith	sadly, stupid-hyper-dog was vetoed
20:58	justin_smith	stupid-hyper-dog was of course a pointless function that chased its own tailcall
20:58	yedi	amalloy justin_smith: it would be cool if there was a list of all those kinds of odd characters that are used in english words
20:58	yedi	then i could add them to my letter parsing regex
20:59	justin_smith	yedi: do you use emacs?
20:59	amalloy	i prefer to think of english as an infinite fractal of constantly fluctuating word-theft
20:59	amalloy	anytime you think you can apply logic to english, you start down the wrong path
21:00	justin_smith	yedi: if so M-x insert-char <tab><tab> then go to the prompt buffer and save it and... - actually there is probably a better way to that
21:00	justin_smith	*to do that
21:01	gfredericks	hey where was that regex that matched english words
21:01	yedi	(dced, did i miss something?)
21:02	justin_smith	gfredericks: it had false positives
21:02	gfredericks	justin_smith: :P I think it was just generated from a word list, so your claim is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE
21:03	justin_smith	false positive as in it matched words not in the list
21:03	justin_smith	or was it really that specific?
21:03	yedi	funnily enough i came across this earlier today: https://github.com/noprompt/frak
21:03	amalloy	gfredericks: in the "not at all news" category, i heard on npr yesterday that someone had written a chrome extension to replace all occurrences of "literally" with "figuratively"
21:04	justin_smith	not as good as the classic cloud-to-butt extension
21:04	amalloy	i have had that installed for a few months
21:04	dbasch	(def lazy-cat (repeat "😺"))
21:04	amalloy	the occasional giggles are totally worth the confusion
21:05	dbasch	,(take 10 (repeat "😺”))
21:05	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string>
21:05	justin_smith	amalloy: slightly less rofl, but still interesting, an old friend made a chrome extension that removes all numbers from the facebook UI
21:05	dbasch	,(take 10 (repeat "😺"))
21:05	clojurebot	("😺" "😺" "😺" "😺" "😺" ...)
21:05	amalloy	i don't use facebook, so the utility of this is not as obvious to me as it must have been to your friend
21:06	Platz	1.5M regex, yep
21:06	gfredericks	somebody should make a generic chrome extension for word substitutions
21:06	gfredericks	would be great for pranks
21:06	justin_smith	facebook uses metrics to "gamify" the experience, so replacing numbers helps subvert that aspect
21:06	gfredericks	swap the names of the two major candidates during major election cycles, etc
21:09	seangrove	bbloom: Alright, grid, align, vertical/horizontal stack all ported over, and the debugger is laying itself out now http://dl.dropbox.com/u/412963/Screenshots/dx.png
21:10	yedi	woah what is that seangrove
21:10	amalloy	i don't understand that at all either, but it looks pretty cool
21:10	justin_smith	gfredericks: is this the one? https://gist.githubusercontent.com/noprompt/6106573/raw/fcb683834bb2e171618ca91bf0b234014b5b957d/word-re.clj
21:11	gfredericks	justin_smith: prollably
21:11	seangrove	yedi: It's our time-traveling debugger + layout manager + event simulator + state inspector
21:11	yedi	well them
21:11	yedi	then*
21:11	justin_smith	gfredericks: so far, slurping that file into clojure and making it an re, it matches cat but not cats
21:11	seangrove	yedi: To show an example https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/412963/zensight/time_travel.mp4 /ht dnolen_
21:11	justin_smith	checking for false positives
21:12	amalloy	cats might not be a word
21:12	justin_smith	haha, it matches cond
21:12	yedi	seangrove: that is going to be killlllller
21:12	justin_smith	maybe because it was written using clojure :)
21:12	seangrove	yedi: That video was pre-layout manager. Just finished up porting a proper recursively-pluggable layout manager system
21:13	justin_smith	matches consolidate but not consolidating
21:13	justin_smith	seems it doesn't attempt to cover conjugations, makes sense
21:13	gfredericks	justin_smith: that's false negatives no?
21:13	seangrove	That was the last big piece before things could be really cleaned up. Pretty excited to clean up and start optimizing for speed, I think we can edge out the default Om strategy if React opens up the right hooks, plus building reusable components this way is just a thing of beauty
21:13	justin_smith	gfredericks: yeah
21:14	amalloy	makes sense??????? it should just cover whatever's in /usr/dict/words, which should include most conjugations
21:14	seangrove	Serializable state and time-traveling is just icing on the cake :)
21:14	justin_smith	gfredericks: first false positive: catting
21:14	gfredericks	justin_smith: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/catting#English
21:15	gfredericks	this regex speaks english better than you do :P
21:15	justin_smith	I guess so
21:15	justin_smith	cond is still an issue though
21:16	gfredericks	amalloy: somehow my computers never have /usr/dict/words
21:16	justin_smith	unless it also includes abbrevs
21:16	amalloy	gfredericks: i forgot where it's stored. it's actually in /usr/share/dict/words for me
21:16	gfredericks	ah there it is
21:16	gfredericks	I copied mine into a git repo a while ago
21:17	amalloy	http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cond
21:17	gfredericks	would be fun to get a corpus from different languages and search for the smallest regex that matches one language but not the other >95% of the time
21:17	justin_smith	it is inconsistent with conjugations - either having catting or lacking dogging is an error
21:18	justin_smith	amalloy: I explicitly mentioned abbrevs
21:18	justin_smith	it is an abbrev
21:18	yedi	seangrove: oh man, i can't wait till i can play with it
21:18	gfredericks	clojurebot: either having catting or lacking dogging is an error
21:18	clojurebot	Roger.
21:19	justin_smith	I am glad I finally thought to try this re out
21:19	justin_smith	err rather, was inspired
21:19	seangrove	yedi: To be honest, bbloom has done ~90% of the work on the layout stuff, I just want it more than him right this moment
21:19	dbasch	it doesn’t match antidisestablishmentarianism
21:19	amalloy	that's just antidisestablishmentarianism refusing to match
21:19	justin_smith	also does not match caked
21:20	dbasch	disestablishmentarianism doesn’t match either, they can’t both agree
21:20	bbloom	seangrove: were you able to basically copy paste my code in to om land and get it to work?
21:21	bbloom	seangrove: or was there some mismatch you had to patch up?
21:21	dbasch	justin_smith: but it matches caker (?)
21:21	justin_smith	one of my favorite things is the unit test in gnu grep that tests an re that matches like 20 different spellings of muammar gaddafi's name
21:22	dbasch	caker is not a word
21:22	seangrove	bbloom: No major mismatches, just a few things to get it tied into our tree structure. Other than that, just grokking all the (admittedly simple) concepts was the major difficulty
21:22	justin_smith	(all of which used by some english language newspaper at some point)
21:22	bbloom	seangrove: took me months to make sense of it in my head :-)
21:23	justin_smith	dbasch: perhaps debatable https://www.google.com/search?q=regex+maumar+khadaffi&oq=regex+maumar+khadaffi&aqs=chrome..69i57.5680j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=define:caker&safe=off
21:23	seangrove	bbloom: It's not too horrendous, even though I'm still shakey. And I'm sure that using it is much simpler than implementing it all, especially with the right tools for immediate feedback
21:23	bbloom	seangrove: pretty cool that it just mapped over considering i had written that back when i had only hypothesized the design of react.js!
21:23	amalloy	huh. your previous search for define:caker snuck into that url, justin_smith
21:23	dbasch	google will define anything
21:23	justin_smith	amalloy: no, that is what I meant to share
21:24	amalloy	or for khadaffi, whatever
21:24	dbasch	including proper names
21:24	justin_smith	oh, ok, weird
21:24	seangrove	bbloom: Impressive stuff ;)
21:24	justin_smith	hah
21:24	bbloom	seangrove: the trickest part of using it is when things don't have a "natural" size, so they wind up being (0,0) or (inf,inf)
21:25	bbloom	seangrove: but i think that the blend ppl ultimately addressed that with "design size" width/height properties on the standard controls
21:25	seangrove	bbloom: Virtualized scroll panels will be tricky, I expect. Some of the stuff winjs is doing is pretty fantastic in that regard
21:26	bbloom	seangrove: early versions of blend would default to align x/y both stretch
21:26	Frozenlock	seangrove: May I ask what you are talking about? It looks interesting
21:27	seangrove	Frozenlock: Layout managers for building apps in the browser (or anywhere, really)
21:27	justin_smith	my webapp library is not letting me return a synthesized document as application/rss+xml - it would be easier to take if I did not know I have commit access to whatever repo this bug is in
21:27	bbloom	seangrove: later versions defaulted to some fixed initial "design size" and then would force the margins to make that design size work... much nicer user experience b/c you'd get a fixed size thing and add layout behavior to it by other UI means, much better
21:27	Frozenlock	seangrove: Yes, but one bbloom did?
21:27	bbloom	Frozenlock: i shared it w/ him privately
21:28	Frozenlock	ah
21:28	bbloom	Frozenlock: it's part of a totally half baked UI framework i started on before react.js came out
21:29	seangrove	bbloom: I'll have to check out blend (or the old version at least). The grid layout was the last major piece before cleaning things up and pulling off some low-hanging optimizations, adding some linting tools, etc. After that, Going to be very interested in what Blend does :)
21:29	bbloom	seangrove: don't look at the old versions, they got lots of UX badly wrong
21:30	bbloom	new versions have design issues, but they are like photoshop-level "this shit is too complicated" rather than "this shit is just plain stupid"
21:30	seangrove	bbloom: Didn't the new version get integrated into VS?
21:31	bbloom	seangrove: oh yeah, i'm just saying don't look at version < 3 for any msft product ever :-P
21:31	bbloom	i think i have blend 3 on my windows vm
21:31	bbloom	dunno what the new VS version is like
21:32	yedi	hah amalloy
21:32	arrdem	ooh. nice catch!
21:36	arrdem	Bronsa: compared to LLVM t.a.jvm is a pleasure to read. thank you.
21:37	bbloom	arrdem: he's gone, but yes, yes it is a pleasure compared to basically anything else
21:40	kras	,(reduce (partial merge-with vector) {} (#(for [x %2] {(% x) x}) #(> % 5) [1 3 6 8]))
21:40	clojurebot	{true [6 8], false [1 3]}
21:41	kras	,(reduce (partial merge-with vector) {} (#(for [x %2] {(% x) x}) #(apply / %) [[1 2] [2 4] [4 6] [3 6]]))
21:41	clojurebot	{2/3 [4 6], 1/2 [[[1 2] [2 4]] [3 6]]}
21:41	amalloy	oh man. vector is not a good choice
21:41	kras	trying to solve a 4clojure problem
21:41	amalloy	yeah, for that reason
21:41	TEttinger	t.a.jvm ?
21:41	bbloom	TEttinger: clojure.tools.analyzer.jvm
21:41	TEttinger	ah thanks
21:41	arrdem	TEttinger: https://github.com/clojure/tools.analyzer.jvm/
21:42	kras	amalloy: vector anyways seems not right
21:42	amalloy	kras: you want to convert everything to singleton vectors first, and then combine them in your merge-with. then you won't be changing the data type once per merge
21:42	kras	it breaks for the second case
21:42	amalloy	or anyway that's one reasonable and common solution
21:43	bbloom	arrdem: amusing to me is how much more code there is in jvm than in the main analyzer
21:43	bbloom	arrdem: most of the complexity in clojure comes from the JVM
21:43	bbloom	perhaps unsurprising, but amusing all the same
21:43	arrdem	bbloom: shrug. If we didn't need hardware software would be easy.
21:43	arrdem	bbloom: I happen to like that complexity, but that's my own crazy =D
21:44	bbloom	arrdem: hardware does not need to be as complex as it is either :-P
21:45	arrdem	bbloom: I'll be entertained to see how complex the final JS analyzer is in comparison. My $2 says they'll be close.
21:45	arrdem	bbloom: hey man... I like my prefetched hardware with multiple caches and out of order processors
21:46	bbloom	arrdem: assuming he still relies on Google Closure, i expect it to be dramatically simpler b/c we can rely on google for source level optimizations during code gen
21:46	arrdem	bbloom: fair point.
21:47	bbloom	much simpler "type system" too
21:47	TEttinger	if we didn't have hardware who'd make keyboard pants https://www.flickr.com/photos/technomancy/4397554484/in/photolist-7GABJU-kivjUp-kix7eb-kiuGX6-kiuDbi-kiuC5k-kga9Xn-aiZCQ
21:47	arrdem	(inc TEttinger)
21:47	lazybot	⇒ 16
21:47	TEttinger	I'm still amazed that people can make their own keyboards
21:47	jcromartie	nothing like tracking time to the 1/10 hours in three different places
21:48	arrdem	bbloom: type system. javascript. right.
21:48	jcromartie	and having to enter "reason codes" to adjust time on the same day
21:48	jcromartie	EXPLAIN YOURSELF, DRONE
21:48	bbloom	arrdem: it's got one, but it deserves "quotes"
21:48	jcromartie	I'm just bitching
21:48	arrdem	jcromartie: #clojure-social is that way sir
21:49	arrdem	jcromartie: it's almost as on topic as #emacs!
21:57	oinksoft	is there sometihng like erlnag's ETS in clojure?
21:59	arrdem	,(true 1)
21:59	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Boolean cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
21:59	arrdem	,(true false)
21:59	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Boolean cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
22:00	arrdem	,(doc true)
22:00	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Boolean cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol>
22:05	kras	amalloy: thanks for the clue
22:05	kras	,(reduce (partial merge-with concat) {} (#(for [x %2] {(% x) [x]}) #(apply / %) [[1 2] [2 4] [4 6] [3 6]]))
22:05	clojurebot	{2/3 [[4 6]], 1/2 ([1 2] [2 4] [3 6])}
22:06	yedi	anything i should worry about / look out for when converting some of my maps to pmaps?
22:07	arrdem	yedi: benchmark everything and make sure it's actually a win
22:22	Frozenlock	yedi: There's a single case where I used pmap with a major win; when the function called was retrieving data from different endpoints over the network.
22:23	danneu	Frozenlock: did you use futures or something to hit the endpoints in parallel with pmap?
22:23	seangrove	Frozenlock: Wouldn't futures work better?
22:23	Frozenlock	danneu: no
22:24	Frozenlock	seangrove: perhaps
22:25	seangrove	Frozenlock: No worries, if pmap works for you :)
22:25	dbasch	seangrove: pmap is implemented with futures
22:25	danneu	sometimes i yearn for a 'pmap for io' like (pooled-map send-request! all-urls {:threads 4})
22:26	seangrove	dbasch: But it's limited to cpu-cores + 2 or something, I believe
22:26	seangrove	If you're not CPU-bound, might be better off managing your pool
22:26	Frozenlock	Stop complicating my code! :-p
22:30	dbasch	danneu, seangrove: that would be pretty easy to implement
22:31	dbasch	all you have to do is take the pmap code and remove the restriction
22:42	amalloy	dbasch: don't forget to fix the OS scheduler so that spinning up a million threads isn't expensive
22:47	amalloy	also, an unbounded version of pmap can potentially hold the head of the entire sequence at once, which currently pmap doesn't do
22:50	amalloy	the point is that attempts to superficially fix pmap don't lead to a pmap that's more useful than the existing one, just to versions of pmap that are useless in novel ways
22:54	oinksoft	what is the idiom for some default reference? i see in korma the use of a @_default, which is being driven by the transaction macro. are macros the way to make this api? or bindings, or something else?
22:54	oinksoft	https://github.com/korma/Korma/blob/master/src/korma/db.clj#L7
22:57	dbasch	amalloy: my point is that you could create a pmap that is optimized for I/O instead of cpu. Sure, it wouldn’t be trivial.
23:01	oinksoft	i could see this being done w/ binding, and precondition to ensure default-whatever is not nil? i dunno
23:02	akhudek	oinksoft: are you asking about general api advice? If so I would use java.jdbc as a reference rather than korma
23:03	oinksoft	akhudek: no, i want my api to look like (defwhatever bizbaz ...), which sets some global value to bizbaz for convenience
23:04	oinksoft	akhudek: korma does this using macros but i think maybe korma is overusing macros? but this seems like it is a common thing in clojure code, i see other code with global atom refs shared by some functions
23:04	oinksoft	akhudek: i figured people who write APIs using this would know very quickly what the cleanest solution is
23:05	akhudek	oinksoft: where bizbaz is a var? yeah, you should use a macro to do that. But it is probably worth making a normal function too and then have the macro use that.
23:05	oinksoft	akhudek: yea, absolutely
23:06	oinksoft	akhudek: hm ok, actually there is another level to korma because it is storing the connection in jdbc too
23:06	akhudek	oinksoft: regarding binding, it’s often preferable to just pass values around rather than rely on thread local bindings
23:07	akhudek	oinksoft: I haven’t looked at it in a while, but korma stored a fair number of global defaults in vars, such as the db connection map, and that pattern can often be annoying.
23:08	akhudek	oinksoft: in contrast, jdbc requres a db map in every function, which seems more complicated but can often be much simpler e.g. if you have multiple dbs, or your are passing things around to different threads
23:10	danneu	seangrove: maybe this would work as a fix-pool map - https://www.refheap.com/79544
23:11	danneu	well it should be a lazy seq i guess
23:11	danneu	no it shouldnt
23:21	danlamanna	if anyone is interested, and wants to judge my first real attempt at functional programming (and clojure) - feel free https://gist.github.com/danlamanna/11240257
23:31	amalloy	danlamanna: i'd write #(<= 0 % 2), since that's apparently what you want to validate
23:31	amalloy	the -1 and 3 are confusing
23:32	danlamanna	amalloy: yeah, they are, i knew that when i wrote it. not sure why i left it
23:32	amalloy	danlamanna: (let [x foo] (if (not x) nil y)) is (when-let [x foo] y)
23:33	amalloy	(> (count x) 0) is (seq x)
23:33	amalloy	also it's super-weird that you're putting whitespace on the inside of [] bindings
23:33	guns	danlamanna: And you are also using def for local bindings within functions
23:33	amalloy	(let [x foo]), not (let [ x foo ])
23:33	guns	but +1 for using tools.cli correctly!
23:34	danlamanna	guns: mostly copy/paste from the example :P
23:34	danlamanna	amalloy: are you referring to regex-filter for when-let?
23:34	amalloy	i was looking at size-str-to-bytes, but it's a general point
23:34	danlamanna	amalloy: still trying to figure out the coding standards. still trying to process that the if and else sexps are indented at the same level.
23:35	amalloy	yeah, i think guns is right that the most important issue here is using def for locals
23:35	amalloy	i'm just pointing out minor stylistic issues, whereas his point is about functional programming, which you asked specifically about
23:35	danlamanna	amalloy guns - yeah i was unsure, not used to let blocks being immutable
23:38	guns	danlamanna: oh, the :default value in tools.cli is always nil, so you don't need to specify those
23:38	guns	WRT let blocks, you can bind values sequentially, if that helps
23:39	danlamanna	guns: for example, in -main - i have to keep a running list of mentioned-files, how would you suggest i keep track of that variable?
23:40	amalloy	reduce, or loop
23:40	guns	danlamanna: you don't seem to be using that outside of its lexical scope; use a set #{} and conj/disj
23:40	guns	or set/union or (into #{} …)