#clojure – 2014-04-21

2014-04-21

00:02	ddellacosta	yedi: how are you deploying the uberjar?
00:02	yedi	i'm just using lein uberjar and then copying the uberjar from my local machine to the remote server
00:03	ddellacosta	yedi: seems like you'd need to compile the cljs and include it in the uberjar beforehand, no? Actually not sure how else you'd do it
00:05	owl-v-	(or) is nil, and (and) is true???
00:05	lazybot	owl-v-: Yes, 100% for sure.
00:06	ddellacosta	owl-v-: makes sense
00:06	ddellacosta	,(or nil nil)
00:06	clojurebot	nil
00:06	dbasch	yedi: I have two profiles, dev and prod
00:06	ddellacosta	,(and nil nil)
00:06	clojurebot	nil
00:07	ddellacosta	whoops
00:07	ddellacosta	...would have expected that to be true.
00:07	dbasch	yedi: before I build the uberjar, I do lein cljsbuild once prod
00:10	amalloy	ddellacosta: why would (and nil nil) be true?
00:10	ddellacosta	amalloy: you're right, I realized my mistake just this moment. :-(
00:10	amalloy	&('#and nil nil) ;; bestest parlor trick
00:10	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: No reader function for tag and
00:10	amalloy	&(#'and nil nil)
00:10	lazybot	⇒ true
00:10	owl-v-	if (nil) is treated as false then (and false false) would be false
00:11	ddellacosta	amalloy: wat
00:11	ddellacosta	amalloy: what is going on there?
00:12	amalloy	ddellacosta: macros take two additional implicit arguments, &form and &env. calling through the var gets at the underlying function, and lets you pass those yourself
00:12	amalloy	&(#'and 1 2 'asdf 'anything)
00:12	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/let [and__3822__auto__ asdf] (if and__3822__auto__ (clojure.core/and anything) and__3822__auto__))
00:13	amalloy	so (#'and 'anything 'whatever) really a silly way of calling (macroexpand '(and))
00:13	TEttinger	heh neat
00:13	ddellacosta	amalloy: huh, thanks for the explanation
00:14	ddellacosta	learn something new (about Clojure especially) every day
00:14	owl-v-	,(#'and true false)
00:14	clojurebot	true
00:14	yedi	dbasch: so just build the prod one right before building the uberjar, and then resume auto building the dev profile while developing?
00:15	TEttinger	,(#'and nil nil nil nil)
00:15	clojurebot	(clojure.core/let [and__3973__auto__ nil] (if and__3973__auto__ (clojure.core/and nil) and__3973__auto__))
00:15	owl-v-	,(and true false)
00:15	clojurebot	false
00:15	dbasch	yedi: yes, I have a prod.sh script that does that. It cleans everything and builds the prod profile and then the uberjar
00:15	TEttinger	,(#'and nil nil nil)
00:15	clojurebot	nil
00:15	TEttinger	waaaaah
00:17	amalloy	TEttinger: because (and x) expands to x
00:17	TEttinger	even with the other implicit args?
00:17	TEttinger	,(#'and 3 nil nil)
00:17	clojurebot	nil
00:18	rgrinberg	is there a way to play with clojure apps without creating a new project? for example i'd like to try out gorilla repl or incanter
00:18	TEttinger	uhhh you sure about that?
00:18	`szx	$google lein-try
00:18	lazybot	[rkneufeld/lein-try · GitHub] https://github.com/rkneufeld/lein-try
00:18	`szx	^ rgrinberg
00:19	owl-v-	(#'and nil nil ture)
00:19	owl-v-	(#'and true nil nil)
00:19	rgrinberg	`szx: cool
00:19	owl-v-	,(#'and nil nil ture)
00:19	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ture in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
00:19	owl-v-	(#'and nil nil true)
00:19	owl-v-	,(#'and nil nil true)
00:19	clojurebot	true
00:19	TEttinger	my brain
00:19	owl-v-	,(#'and true nil nil)
00:19	clojurebot	nil
00:21	owl-v-	,(and nil nil true)
00:21	clojurebot	nil
00:21	owl-v-	,(#'and nil nil true)
00:21	clojurebot	true
00:23	amalloy	i think you guys must have missed the lesson here. (#'and x y z) always expands to z, for any x, y, or z
00:23	owl-v-	,(and 1 2)
00:23	clojurebot	2
00:23	owl-v-	,(and 2 1)
00:23	clojurebot	1
00:24	amalloy	it's not useful in any real program, except that it gives you a better understanding of how macroexpansion works
00:31	jwm	anyone care to help explain the add-watch first example
00:32	jwm	how can you pass nil to add-watch for key
00:33	seancorf`	,(doc add-watch)
00:33	clojurebot	"([reference key fn]); Adds a watch function to an agent/atom/var/ref reference. The watch fn must be a fn of 4 args: a key, the reference, its old-state, its new-state. Whenever the reference's state might have been changed, any registered watches will have their functions called. The watch fn will be called synchronously, on the agent's thread if an agent, before any pending sends if agent or re...
00:33	seancorf`	hmm, cut off
00:34	jwm	yeah I understand add-watch
00:35	jwm	http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/add-watch
00:35	jwm	I just needed help understanding the first example
00:35	jwm	how does it get away with using nil in the form
00:36	seancorf`	nil is just a key
00:36	seancorf`	as long as the keys of various watchers are all unique, it doesn't matter what their values actually are
00:36	seancorf`	per the docs, Keys... are otherwise considered opaque by the watch mechanism.
00:37	jwm	so its just a placeholder in an example
00:37	seancorf`	Well, it's the key for that watcher
00:37	seancorf`	you could remove it using nil as the key
00:37	jwm	yeah
00:38	jwm	kind of a weird example
00:38	jwm	wouldn't you want to pass the key into watch-agent
00:38	seancorf`	if you only want to add one watcher (via this function), it doesn't matter what the key is
00:39	seancorf`	the key could be 0, or :foo, or ""
00:39	seancorf`	or nil
00:40	jwm	how about the partial, I assumed partial took the arguments after the call
00:41	owl-v-	how do i express imaginary number???
00:41	lazybot	owl-v-: Oh, absolutely.
00:41	seancorf`	right... so watch-fn takes five args, and the partial supplies the context
00:41	owl-v-	,(Math/sqrt 2)
00:41	clojurebot	1.4142135623730951
00:41	owl-v-	,(Math/sqrt -4)
00:42	clojurebot	NaN
00:42	seancorf`	and add-watch expects a function of four args - which is what is left
00:42	owl-v-	,(Math/sqrt -1)
00:42	clojurebot	NaN
00:42	seancorf`	owl-v-: you'll need a library that handles complex numbers
00:47	seancorf`	jwm: does that clarify?
00:47	jwm	I'm still kind of at a loss
00:47	jwm	not sure why
00:48	jwm	what does context mean in this regard
00:48	jwm	not sure why this is so hard for me to understand I already have smtp, mongodb, http, uberjar, nrepl + lighttable going
00:48	jwm	hehe
00:48	jwm	I just let myself get stuck and it gets irritating :)
00:48	seancorf`	Could be a label to display
00:49	seancorf`	It could be a snapshot of state from wherever the watcher was added
00:49	jwm	ok so context just gets passed to the anonymous function
00:49	jwm	but where do the rest of the arguments get passed in from
00:50	seancorf`	add-watch takes a function of four args, (partial watch-fn context) is a function of four args
00:50	seancorf`	so when the item changes, the system calls the function (with four args)
00:57	jwm	you know where I went wrong
00:57	jwm	I didn't think in my head that add-watch was calling the function with the rest of the arguments
00:57	jwm	I'm a dildo
00:58	jwm	heh
00:58	jwm	the nil thing also through me off
00:58	jwm	that should be changed to some random key like :example :)
00:58	jwm	threw*
00:59	seancorf`	:context-watcher would probably be a better key for that example
00:59	jwm	yeah
00:59	jwm	the nil made me think somehow partial worked backwards also lol
00:59	jwm	I overthought it
01:02	jwm	I probably wont be using agents
01:02	jwm	they seem to fail in my environment
01:03	seancorf`	oh?
01:03	jwm	one last question any good tools to stop memory creeping
01:04	jwm	I'm running my code as an uberjar and it started at 96mb
01:04	jwm	no addition of data and its at 350 now
01:04	jwm	I plan to add a lot of introspection later down the road but I have a stupid deadline by tuesday
01:04	seancorf`	Have you used JVM-based languages before?
01:05	jwm	no, just in administration
01:05	jwm	I put off for two decades now because the jvm used so much memory :)
01:06	jwm	but now that we have gigs upon gigs..
01:06	seancorf`	The JVM starts with a minimum heap size and allocates more memory as it needs it up until the max heap size you specify
01:06	jwm	I've got a crapload of dependencies though so I imagine that isnt much memory at this point in time
01:06	seancorf`	A lot of people who've never used the JVM find the memory use surprising
01:07	seancorf`	We run servers with heap size set to 8GB :)
01:07	jwm	hehe
01:07	jwm	gone 64bit?
01:07	seancorf`	I usually run local JVM processes on my laptop with 1GB heap
01:07	jwm	I am running this code 64bit
01:07	seancorf`	heh, haven't had a 32bit system for years
01:08	jwm	I'm actually transitioning over from nodejs
01:08	jwm	getting off the imperative bandwagon since I am trying to get into more r&d type stuff
01:09	seancorf`	I've been using JVM-based systems for 17 years now
01:09	jwm	that is cool
01:10	jwm	I was an asm coder and then went to javascript lol
01:10	jwm	figured if I was going to use a vm might as well use a really good one :)
01:11	TEttinger	LLVM?
01:11	seancorf`	The JVM is certainly battle-tested
01:11	jwm	I did not get comfortable with llvm yet
01:11	jwm	but its sick how embeddable it is
01:11	TEttinger	I'll give Julia a shot
01:13	jwm	how's openjdk doing
01:13	jwm	I haven't tried running clojure on it yet
01:14	seancorf`	Clojure and its contrib libraries are all tested against OpenJDK
01:14	seancorf`	for example http://build.clojure.org/job/clojure-test-matrix/
01:15	seancorf`	and you can see how contrib libraries are tested against both multiple JVMs and multiple Clojure versions http://build.clojure.org/job/java.jdbc-test-matrix/
01:16	jwm	http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk8/
01:16	jwm	yeah, tested against 1.6 on that page
01:16	jwm	your page rather
01:18	seancorf`	I'm running Java 8 locally for all my testing now... and we're on Java 7 in production right now... We've tended to go to production with RCs of Clojure for a while as well... We first went to production with Clojure 1.3 alpha 7 or alpha 8
01:19	jwm	I must be a bad guy then I run everything at one level shy of beta
01:19	jwm	hehe
01:20	seancorf`	we test locally against master so we're always ready for the alphas and betas as they appear
01:20	jwm	I work for a cable company though so it's not exactly life threatening stuff
01:25	jwm	I really like lighttable
01:26	jwm	I've used emacs/slime/etc in the past but lighttable is really nice so far
01:27	seancorf`	I used Emacs for Clojure for about two years, before switching to LightTable when 0.6.0 came out
01:29	jwm	cool, do you try to stay up to date with git?
01:29	jwm	I tried updating once a couple weeks ago but it didn't want to start after that hehe
01:29	jwm	I've got my css to do transparency and a nice image bg
01:29	jwm	and font shadows
01:30	seancorf`	With LT you mean? No, I just use the official releases since I used it for all my work and need it to behave...
01:31	jwm	I finally got my project to a point I can just run the nrepl separate and jar it off and put it on the server.. it seems to run faster now
01:33	yedi	(inc dbasch)
01:33	lazybot	⇒ 2
01:34	seancorf`	We tend to run an nREPL server inside our processes now, so we can connect into processes from LightTable and run diagnostics... or even update the code while it's running.
01:36	jwm	yep!
01:36	jwm	that is exactly what I wanted
01:37	jwm	really exciting
01:45	jwm	clojure.data/diff is nice
01:46	Frozenlo`	seancorf`: While the cljs/LT is pretty sweet, I stil feel more confortable in emacs.
01:47	Frozenlo`	But boy do I miss the magic connection between LT and the browser
01:47	Frozenlo`	Doing the same thing in Emacs is such a pain...
01:48	seancorf`	Frozenlo`: that pain is why I'll deal with LT and its quirks :)
01:48	jwm	yeah that is what I like the most out of LT.. it's kind of like sublime
01:48	jwm	it reads your mind on how you want to do things
01:49	jwm	I got clojurescript going in lt and the frontend to this project
01:49	jwm	next thing I want to try is nrepl from browser and nrepl from lighttable at the same time if possible hehe
01:55	seancorf`	LT can certainly connect into both client and server and eval code live into both. We do that.
01:57	jwm	yeah, I already have both repls going at once. I mean have something outside of lt running in browser
01:57	jwm	so when I am on the go I can just login and change some code from the web
01:58	Frozenlock	Is there a function to make a range that 'sometimes' skip a number? Like `(from 0 to 500 in 400 steps)'
01:58	Frozenlock	--> with only int
01:58	jwm	I know they already have browser based repls I just would like both options. I had to load up the nrepl lt middleware so I would need two separate repl sessions if possible
02:00	seancorf`	jwm: what you change in the browser is only transient - for that browser and only until you reload the page
02:00	seancorf`	you need to be able to push updated source as well, and run lein cljsbuild auto on the server :)
02:00	jwm	yeah I run auto on the server
02:01	jwm	but if it is a nrepl in browser wouldn't it update clojure?
02:01	seancorf`	Frozenlock: range has a step argument
02:02	seancorf`	jwm: if your repl is connected to the browser, it's only affecting the running JS image - in the browser
02:02	seancorf`	the repl to the server will modify the (shared) server image, until the process is restarted
02:02	Frozenlock	seancorf`: I know, but it won't skip a step if needed.
02:03	seancorf`	Frozenlock: oh i see, you want the [0,500) divided by 400 and the nearest int used?
02:03	dbasch	,(range 10 100 20)
02:03	clojurebot	(10 30 50 70 90)
02:04	seancorf`	jwm: whenever you reload the browser, you'll lose any repl-made changes - unless you've also pushed them in source to the server (which is what we plan to do)...
02:04	jwm	yeah, if you have an nrepl from the browser console to your server though
02:04	jwm	you're actually evaling into the clojure nrepl connection
02:04	dbasch	Frozenlock: do it for a multiple and then divide
02:04	seancorf`	ah, that wasn't what i thought you meant
02:04	jwm	of course then when you restart the server it would lose changes
02:05	yedi	dbasch: i'm guessing adding a `lein clean` to the start of this would be ideal? https://github.com/yedi/reasoned-rhymer/blob/master/deploy.sh
02:05	dbasch	yedi: yes, mine does a clean first
02:05	jwm	I played with bodil's catnip a bit
02:05	seancorf`	jwm: why use a browser-based login for the repl-to-server setup? why not just use LightTable and a VPN? :)
02:06	jwm	haha
02:06	jwm	yeah I do that now (vpn.. well autossh)
02:06	dbasch	,(range 1 100 (quot 100 13))
02:06	clojurebot	(1 8 15 22 29 ...)
02:06	jwm	seancorf`: I want to go to session based coding in the future
02:06	jwm	for my own personal ide project :)
02:06	seancorf`	anyways, late here ... bed time...
02:07	jwm	same here night thanks for the help
02:08	jwm	actually they could make lighttable semi-embeddable into browser
02:08	ontoillogical	hello all, I'm trying to use this Java library in clojure and I'm having trouble importing it https://clojars.org/org.clojars.smallrivers/simplecaptcha/versions/1.2.1 . The class I want to use is nl.captcha.Captcha
02:08	jwm	that would be pretty meta
02:09	ontoillogical	I can't figure out how to require it, (require 'org.clojars.smallrivers.simplecaptcha.Captcha) doesn't work, neither does (require 'nl.captcha.Captcha)
02:11	jwm	it would just be org.clojars.smallrivers no?
02:12	ontoillogical	jwm: (require 'org.clojars.smallrivers.Captcha) and (require 'org.clojars.smallrivers.nl.captcha.Captcha) both fail :(
02:14	jwm	what about org.clojars.smallrivers
02:14	amalloy	you don't use require to talk to java classes. you import them
02:14	jwm	this is on maven though no?
02:16	ontoillogical	amalloy: ohhhhhh
02:16	jwm	(import '[org.clojars.smallrivers Captcha])
02:17	ontoillogical	import!
02:17	ontoillogical	thanks all
02:17	jwm	hehe I got stumbled by that on a few of the ones without docs
02:18	ontoillogical	so it looks like this is a library on clojars that just contains the java classes, no clj wrapper. Is this common?
02:18	dbasch	ontoillogical: yes
02:19	ontoillogical	dbasch: is there a need to repackage java libraries for clojure, or is this just to make pulling them down from clojars using lein or what not convenient?
02:20	dbasch	convenience, people do it all the time
02:20	dbasch	especially for the ones out of github that are not on maven
02:21	dbasch	I’m guilty of that myself: https://clojars.org/org.clojars.dbasch/bip38
02:22	jwm	I use org.clojars.subethasmtp
02:27	jwm	I didnt know you could make a vector as a key
02:29	jwm	{[:spool :web] {:test 234},
02:29	jwm	that looks terrible
02:29	jwm	hehe
02:48	sm0ke	weird literal tag behaviour
02:48	sm0ke	if i pass a fucntion to a literal tag, it converts it to a symbol
02:51	owl-v-	is (reduce) == (apply) ???
02:51	lazybot	owl-v-: Yes, 100% for sure.
02:51	dbasch	owl-v-: no
02:51	owl-v-	haha
02:52	owl-v-	lazybot~
02:53	owl-v-	i can't tell difference between (reduce) and (apply)
02:53	dbasch	for one, reduce applies to two-argument functions
02:54	dbasch	apply uses a list as arguments to a function
02:56	dbasch	e.g.
02:56	dbasch	(defn f [a b c] (println (+ a (* 10 b) (* 30 c))))
02:56	dbasch	(apply f [1 2 3])
02:56	dbasch	that won’t work with reduce, it would be meaningless
02:59	magopian	dbasch: owl-v-: i guess the confusion comes from functions that accept any number of arguments, like "str"
03:00	magopian	(i'm a noob and keep getting confused about that myself)
03:00	dbasch	magopian: sometimes you can get the same result with reduce or apply, but you should know what you’re doing and why
03:01	dbasch	reduce keeps “carrying” a result and computing the operation with the next value
03:01	magopian	,(reduce str ["a" "b"])
03:01	clojurebot	"ab"
03:02	magopian	,(apply str ["a" "b"])
03:02	clojurebot	"ab"
03:03	magopian	with reduce, however, you can do nice things like specify a starting point
03:03	magopian	,(reduce str "starting point" ["a" "b"])
03:03	clojurebot	"starting pointab"
03:03	Frozenlock	dbasch: seancorfield: That's what I settled with. It never returns more than the number of steps asked, and strech the range as much as it can. https://www.refheap.com/78060
03:05	owl-v-	,(apply str "starting point" ["a" "b"])
03:05	clojurebot	"starting pointab"
03:06	owl-v-	,(apply str "starting point" ["a" "b"] " fun")
03:06	clojurebot	"starting point[\"a\" \"b\"] fun"
03:06	owl-v-	,(reduce str "starting point" ["a" "b"] " fun")
03:06	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (4) passed to: core/reduce>
03:07	owl-v-	(apply) > (reduce) ???
03:07	lazybot	owl-v-: How could that be wrong?
03:11	dbasch	,(map (comp #(Math/round %) float) (range 0 20 (/ 20 18)))
03:11	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
03:11	dbasch	Frozenlock: would that work?
03:13	dbasch	or
03:13	dbasch	,(map (comp int #(Math/floor %) float) (range 0 20 (/ 20 18)))
03:13	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
03:13	Frozenlock	,(count (map (comp #(Math/round %) float) (range 0 100 (/ 100 90))))
03:13	clojurebot	90
03:14	Frozenlock	looking now :-p
03:15	jonasen	owl-v-: (apply f [x y z]) -> (f x y z)
03:15	jonasen	(reduce f [x y z]) -> (f (f (f x) y) z)
03:16	jonasen	sorry, it's actually (reduce f [x y z]) -> (f (f x y) z)
03:16	Frozenlock	dbasch: I'd say it works o_O
03:16	Frozenlock	Wow I'm terrible
03:17	Frozenlock	I see, you steps in fraction and turn it into integers only when finished
03:17	jonasen	and with an initial value: (reduce f init [x y z]) -> (f (f (f init x) y) z)
03:18	dbasch	Frozenlock: the same thing happens to me when looking at the best 4clojure solutions
03:19	Frozenlock	dbasch: the 'wow I'm terrible' part?
03:19	dbasch	Frozenlock: yes
03:19	Frozenlock	Keeps your ego in check :)
03:20	owl-v-	,(apply (fn [n m] (Math/pow n m)) [2 3 4])
03:20	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: sandbox/eval79/fn--80>
03:20	owl-v-	,(reduce (fn [n m] (Math/pow n m)) [2 3 4])
03:20	clojurebot	4096.0
03:21	owl-v-	:-)
03:22	jonasen	owl-v-: you see the difference now? ((Math/pow 2 3) 4) vs. (Math/pow 2 3 4). The latter throws an ArityException
03:22	owl-v-	it does :)
03:22	TEttinger	,(reduce (memfn Math/pow) [3N 4N 5N])
03:22	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: sandbox/eval131/fn--133>
03:23	owl-v-	thanks
03:23	jonasen	That first one should ofcourse be (Math/pow (Math/pow 2 3) 4)
03:27	dbasch	Frozenlock: btw, (map int (range…))) works fine, I was just trying to get closer to the numbers in your example
03:28	dissipate	which approach to polymophism is considered more 'idiomatic' in clojure? protocols, multimethods or just plain old functions as parameters?
03:29	dissipate	i seeing quite a few open source projects using protocols a lot. but it reminds me more of OO style programming
03:30	dbasch	dissipate: multimethods http://clojure.org/runtime_polymorphism
03:30	jonasen	dissipate: I usually start with plain functions (polymorphism isn't always needed). If I do need polymorphism I'd go with multimethods first. They are more flexible and often efficient enough
03:31	dbasch	(inc jonasen)
03:31	lazybot	⇒ 1
03:31	Frozenlock	dbasch: I see that. I think at the beginning I wanted to avoid duplicates in case of steps <1 and got lost from there.
03:32	dbasch	Frozenlock: well, with steps < 1 you have to use floats or fractions
03:32	Frozenlock	(distinct (map int (range..))) is way simpler anyway
03:34	dbasch	Frozenlock: steps < 1 means you want more than the range, or else just use 1
03:35	dissipate	jonasac, my situation is that i want to write some functions that are going to kick off and keep track of some running tasks, but i want to create an 'interface' so that i can easily swap out for a different implementation if needed later. for instance, i want to do 'start-task', 'stop-task' etc.
03:35	Frozenlock	There, fool(me)-proof (map int (range from to (max 1 (/ to in-n-steps))))
04:07	ptcek	exit
04:14	owl-v-	if i have function (defn filter-red [image] (filter-color image "red")) will i have copy of image inside of the function 'filter-red'?
04:25	dissipate	owl-v-, depends on what you mean by 'copy', but 'image' will be bound locally to whatever is passed in to that function as that param
04:27	owl-v-	image as array of pixels
04:29	dissipate	owl-v-, you mean a vector? or a list?
04:29	owl-v-	(let [image (get-image-from-camera 0)] (filter-red image))
04:29	owl-v-	list/vector matters?
04:30	dissipate	owl-v-, not really, but 2 different data structures
04:31	owl-v-	all i want to know is does image in the function have duplicated image or not?
04:33	dissipate	owl-v-, it will be bound to the list/vector, yes. lists and vectors are persistent data structures, which means that essentially what you get is a 'copy' of the data structure when the function is called.
04:34	dissipate	owl-v-, more on that here: http://clojure.org/data_structures
04:35	owl-v-	is there way to pass reference?
04:36	dissipate	owl-v-, yep, instead of a list/vector, it could be a ref. more on those here: http://clojure.org/refs
04:48	owl-v-	how do i update value just like c or python?; 'a = 0' -> 'a = 1'
04:49	owl-v-	if i don't want to have old value?
04:53	dissipate	owl-v-, it depends on what you are trying to do
04:53	owl-v-	y?
04:54	owl-v-	(def a 0) and then (def a 1) ?
04:54	dissipate	owl-v-, because in Clojure, mutation is managed. and there are different ways of managing mutation depending on what you are doing.
04:55	dissipate	owl-v-, atoms are one of the simplest ways of doing mutation in clojure. but there are also transients.
04:57	dissipate	owl-v-, http://clojure.org/atoms
04:59	dissipate	owl-v-, this blog post gives more of an overview: http://blog.fogus.me/2011/07/12/no-stinking-mutants/
05:06	owl-v-	the reason i need to remove old value is because i need to get image forever~
05:06	owl-v-	a new image for each iteration
05:07	perses	hello, i just tried jiraph lib, and when i did lein run, i got http://sprunge.us/FciM
05:07	perses	is there anybody help pleasE?
05:07	owl-v-	start (get image) (filter image) (display image) loop
05:09	owl-v-	if i don't get rid of old images, stack overflow may occur.
05:10	dissipate	owl-v-, sounds like you could use a lazy sequence: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/lazy-seq
05:11	dissipate	owl-v-, set up a function that generates the images and then use 'lazy-seq' so you can keep getting images from it
05:21	perses	please anybody here can help
05:21	perses	http://sprunge.us/FciM , how may i fix this?
05:33	perses	i changed the version to the recent and i got another errors http://sprunge.us/WUPO
05:39	jonasen	perses: Is jiraph in your :dependencies vector in project.clj?
05:42	perses	jonasen: http://sprunge.us/FbDS
05:44	jonasen	perses: looks ok
05:44	perses	jonasen: what maybe cause this ?
05:47	jonasen	perses: what does your (:require ..) form look like? I think you should require the flatland.jiraph.graph namespace
05:51	perses	jonasen: http://sprunge.us/iNXI
05:52	jonasen	perses: Try removing (use 'jiraph.graph)
05:57	perses	jonasen: check usage section https://github.com/ninjudd/jiraph , i need to define use stuff to can use the methods there, when i tried without it i got undefined
06:01	jonasen	perses: I think the usage section might be outdated. I can find no jiraph.graph namespace in the source code.
06:01	jonasen	maybe they have reorganized the namespace structure or something
06:05	owl-v-	how do i use java api?
06:06	jonasen	owl-v-: which one?
06:06	owl-v-	java gui
06:07	owl-v-	java.awt
06:09	jonasen	owl-v-: you import the classes you want to use and use them with Clojure's Java interop support: http://clojure.org/java_interop
06:10	perses	jonasen: http://sprunge.us/FQYH i tried simple example from usage but without use 'jiraph.graph with require part you mentioned, and got this error
06:10	maveneagle	hey folks, are there any forum where i can find recent whitepapers about computer science and software development in general? hacker news is good but not all whitepapers makes its way to hacker news..
06:13	jonasen	perses: You'll probably have to study the source code if the usage examples are out of date. My guess is the namespace jiraph.masai-layer has been renamed to flatland.jiraph.layer.masai
06:14	perses	ah ok
06:30	kras	what is the difference between filter and remove?
06:30	kras	,(doc filter)
06:30	clojurebot	"([pred coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of the items in coll for which (pred item) returns true. pred must be free of side-effects."
06:30	kras	,(doc remove)
06:30	clojurebot	"([pred coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of the items in coll for which (pred item) returns false. pred must be free of side-effects."
06:31	llasram	kras: false vs true from the pred
06:31	kras	oops, overlooked it
06:31	kras	thanks
06:32	kras	fn names are little confusing though
06:32	kras	filter-if filter-if-not sounds better, no?
06:54	owl-v-	why can't i call java class? https://www.refheap.com/78079
07:00	owl-v-	class not found exception; https://www.refheap.com/78080
07:01	penthief	owl-v-: Dunno, can you call the constuctor with the package name included? (org.opencv.objdetect.CascadeClassifier. ...) If not, then my guess is its not on the path. Does "ps -wef\|grep java" show the relevant library?
07:07	penthief	I don't much like, nor understand why add-watch agent functions are called about 3 times instead of once, because I was hoping that I could use an add-watch function as an async callback for a send-off IO operation.
07:28	Frozenlock_sleep	That's weird... congomongo just started giving me back strings instead of joda DateTime
07:31	jwm	is there a good way to output the contents of a ref straight to a file
07:31	jwm	that has mix and match content (mime file types, buffered data byte streams, etc)
08:04	petron	hey peeps. I need some help with my Clojure workflow. I can't believe how hard it is to not wait 3 seconds every time I run "lein test".
08:04	petron	I'm not an Emacs user.
08:04	petron	I like Light Table, but maybe it's the wrong IDE.
08:04	petron	I just want to run tests every time I change my source or test files, without restarting the repl each time.
08:04	agarman	I suggest prism
08:05	beamso	https://github.com/jakemcc/lein-test-refresh or https://github.com/dakrone/lein-autotest ?
08:05	agarman	https://github.com/aphyr/prism
08:05	agarman	I've tried them all...prism just runs tests relevant to the namespace
08:06	petron	thx, I'll try that
08:06	beamso	can you use prism without using midge?
08:06	beamso	s/midge/midje/
08:06	agarman	I'm not using midje
08:06	agarman	so probably :-)
08:07	beamso	ha. okay.
08:07	agarman	I checked prism's dependencies...it's not pulling in midje, so I can give a definitive yes
08:08	petron	prism exits
08:08	petron	if I run "lein prism", it runs tests once, and exits
08:08	petron	(I'm on Windows, if that matters)
08:08	beamso	oh. i've misread an "inspired by midje's excellent autotest".
08:08	agarman	no, it's that you have to reference it in your deps
08:09	agarman	in my lein profile :user { :dependencies [com.aphyr/prism "0.1.2" :scope "test"]
08:09	petron	I followed the instructions on the GitHub repo and placed the plugins and dependencies lines in my ~/.lein/profiles.clj file.
08:10	agarman	it may be a windows thing then...I'm on a mac and also use this on an ubuntu machine
08:11	petron	prism 0.12 seems to work, even without the :scope "test" thing
08:11	petron	I was on prism 0.11
08:11	petron	it did not auto-watch
08:11	agarman	ah, ok
08:11	petron	so I'm presuming 0.12 may have a fix for windows
08:11	agarman	the :scope test is to keep the dep from getting to production
08:12	petron	now I'm getting a "failed to reload..."
08:12	petron	my project is called "b"
08:13	petron	when I change b/src/core.clj, I get "java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate \path\to\b\src\b\core__init.class"
08:13	petron	do I need :gen-class somewhere maybe?
08:13	agarman	no
08:14	agarman	it could be an issue with windows still
08:14	yedi	i think it should be b/src/b.core.clj
08:14	yedi	i think it should be b/src/b/core.clj *
08:16	petron	it appears to be watching the right folders
08:16	petron	and my source is at b/src/b/core.clj
08:18	petron	oh nm I have a typo in my project.clj
08:19	agarman	@petron it all working now?
08:20	petron	hmmm no :\ fixed project.clj, but still getting "Could not locate \b\src\b\core__init.class or \b\src\b\core.clj on classpath: ..."
08:21	petron	I don't have :classpath in project.clj, but it must be inferring it correctly because it shows "Watching \b\src \b\test" when I run "lein prism".
08:21	petron	where * is /path/to/parent-directory/
08:23	agarman	you can always fall back to https://github.com/jakemcc/lein-test-refresh
08:27	petron	thx agarman, lein test-refresh is working
08:27	petron	this is great
08:28	petron	right now it's wayyy to hard to get these simple things working and I hope leiningen becomes better at automatically pulling in plugins or something, for newbies.
08:31	agarman	something like lein-try for plugins?
08:38	kras	how do I pass a seq of args to a macro
08:39	kras	(apply fn args) doesn;t seem to take macro for a fn
08:39	kras	,(apply and [true false])
08:39	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/and, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
08:40	gfredericks	kras: you don't -- what do you actually want to do?
08:40	kras	(defn xor [& xs] (and (and xs) (or xs)))
08:41	kras	I am trying to see if I can make this function work as expected
08:41	kras	unfortunatley and with a seq doesn;t work as expected
08:41	kras	,(and [true false])
08:41	clojurebot	[true false]
08:41	gfredericks	well if this is for serious, you'd want to write a macro instead so that it can short-circuit like and/or do
08:42	gfredericks	but if you don't care about short-circuiting you can implement the required logic with reduce
08:44	kras	any of the higher order functions won;t take a macro I guess since it gets unwrapped
08:44	gfredericks	you also might want to look at every? and some for function-based analogs of and/or
08:45	gfredericks	I guess a proper xor can't short-circuit anyhow
08:45	gfredericks	so you could just do
08:45	gfredericks	,(defn xor [& xs] (reduce #(cond-> %1 %2 not) false xs))
08:45	clojurebot	#'sandbox/xor
08:45	gfredericks	,(xor true true true)
08:45	clojurebot	true
08:45	gfredericks	,(xor true true)
08:45	clojurebot	false
08:46	gfredericks	,(xor true false false false true)
08:46	clojurebot	false
08:46	gfredericks	,(xor)
08:46	clojurebot	false
08:48	kras	gfredericks: thanks, never used cond-> will lookup
08:48	gfredericks	slightly longer without it: #(if %2 (not %1) %1)
08:52	oskarth	,(doc cond->)
08:52	clojurebot	"([expr & clauses]); Takes an expression and a set of test/form pairs. Threads expr (via ->) through each form for which the corresponding test expression is true. Note that, unlike cond branching, cond-> threading does not short circuit after the first true test expression."
09:47	jwm	is there an easy way to serial a map to a file that contains mime/stream data?
09:47	jwm	serialize*
09:47	jwm	seems like a hard task to solve
09:50	arrdem	you can't generally stream a map..
09:50	arrdem	you have to impose some constraint like ordered keys or fully known keys
09:51	jwm	yeah I was hoping there would be a library that does it
09:51	jwm	like right now I store emails in a map "spool"
09:51	jwm	basically just keyworded map for inboxes
09:51	jwm	emails have mime and base64 encoded data which gets to become a base64decodestream
09:51	jwm	probably due to subetha doing that for me
09:52	jwm	I was hoping I could just take the map and serialize it to disk
10:01	jwm	cool just found Nippy
10:01	jwm	serializing library
10:05	jwm	guess I'll worry about serialization later
10:23	ssqq	When a string match a regexp, How to get the location of the matched substring?
10:26	bbloom	ssqq: you probably need to use re-matcher
10:27	ssqq	bbloom: Maybe, I try it.
10:28	bbloom	ssqq: i'd probably just use the facilities of java.util.regex direclty for more specialized use cases
10:29	ssqq	bbloom: Thanks.
10:46	wildeyes	Hello
10:46	wildeyes	Anybody here?
10:47	AeroNotix	No
10:47	wildeyes	Sup aero
10:51	joegallo	no one is here
10:51	jwm	whats a good pattern for doing something every few minutes in clojure?
10:52	coventry	A core.async go block which waits on an async/timeout channel.
10:53	bbloom	jwm: on the jvm, you can just use a timer class
10:53	joegallo	java.util.concurrent is full of nice things for that, too
10:53	jwm	hmm too many choices
10:53	jwm	:)
10:53	joegallo	and, of course, there's quartz
10:53	jwm	figured as much
11:01	llasram	For an in-between there's https://github.com/overtone/at-at
11:01	wildeyes	Lala
11:02	xwildeyes	Hello?
11:02	bbloom	dnolen_: i spent > 2 days trying to fix that damn bug. today, i fixed it in 20 minutes
11:03	bbloom	PSA: take a fucking break everyonce in a while guys, debugging is mentally taxing & you need your beauty rest.
11:03	hfaafb	doesn't necessarily mean those > 2 days weren't required :)
11:05	bbloom	hfaafb: i'll tell myself that so that i feel better about it, thanks :-P
11:05	coventry	bbloom: If only it were possible to grind away at a perplexing bug without getting frustrated, maybe it wouldn't be so taxing.
11:06	tudd	bbloom: state-transition, both in code and in person. Mix up your environment. put your computer somewhere else. change _something_ about your physical state. change in mental state follows. hard bugs become "obvious" how to fix.
11:08	coventry	(Didn't mean that as advice, don't know an easy answer.)
11:09	xwildeyes	Good thing clojures functional or mind perplexing would have been almost like a death sentence :p
11:09	xwildeyes	Say, who's here doing some cljs?
11:10	jwm	hehe quartz would take me a week to learn/use
11:18	BobSchack	xwildeyes I'm doing some clojurescript and the is the clojurescript irc channel
11:18	devn	,(require '[clojure.walk :as walk])
11:18	clojurebot	nil
11:19	devn	(map #(-> (zipmap ["a" "b" "c"] %) walk/keywordize-keys) (repeat 3 [1 2 3]))
11:19	devn	,(map #(-> (zipmap ["a" "b" "c"] %) walk/keywordize-keys) (repeat 3 [1 2 3]))
11:19	clojurebot	({:c 3, :b 2, :a 1} {:c 3, :b 2, :a 1} {:c 3, :b 2, :a 1})
11:20	devn	walk/keywordize-keys uses postwalk, postwalk consumes seqs "as with doall" -- does that mean the right hand side above will be realized with doall? no right? just each sub seq, right?
11:25	coventry	,(time (do (map #(-> (zipmap ["a" "b" "c"] %) walk/keywordize-keys) (repeat [1 2 3])) 1))
11:25	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.145169 msecs"\n1
11:26	coventry	,(time (map #(-> (zipmap ["a" "b" "c"] %) walk/keywordize-keys) (repeat [1 2 3])))
11:26	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.142967 msecs"\n({:c 3, :b 2, :a 1} {:c 3, :b 2, :a 1} {:c 3, :b 2, :a 1} {:c 3, :b 2, :a 1} {:c 3, :b 2, :a 1} ...)
11:26	devn	annnndd that is my answer
11:26	devn	thanks coventry
11:26	devn	i cant brane gud today
11:41	arrdem	devn: it's okay, just get some coffee and we'll be here when you can function again :D
12:03	shiranaihito	what's the most common mistake that causes an AbstractMethodError when trying to implement clojure.lang.IFn for a record? -It blows up from Compiler.eval() at fn.applyTo(..) .. do i need to somehow implement "applyTo" in addition to "invoke"?
12:03	llasram	shiranaihito: Yes -- when implementing IFn, you always need to implement applyTo
12:03	shiranaihito	hm
12:04	llasram	It's not difficult to express in terms of your invoke implementations though
12:04	shiranaihito	llasram: alrighty, thanks :p and is there something special to implementing it? .. oh, so i can just delegate to "invoke" by calling the "this" given to applyTo?
12:05	llasram	yep
12:05	shiranaihito	ok, cool, let's see..
12:05	shiranaihito	mmm the explosion went away :P
12:06	shiranaihito	llasram: is implementing IFn a sign of trouble in general, though? .. or just business as usual?
12:07	llasram	It depends on why you're doing it. In my experience it isn't common, but sometimes is really useful
12:08	llasram	Usually when I think "I'd like a thing which I can call as a function," what I really want is a function :-)
12:08	shiranaihito	:P
12:09	shiranaihito	well, i've got a record that acts as a placeholder for a couple of values, and participates in a protocol, aaaaand now implements IFn
12:10	shiranaihito	if i haven't done anything dirty, then i guess this is just a good example of why Clojure is awesome :P
12:10	llasram	In your case, what's the benefit of the record also being a function vs producing closures over the records when you need them?
12:10	shiranaihito	at least using it this way will result in neatness for what i'm doing
12:11	shiranaihito	closures over the records?
12:11	llasram	kk
12:11	shiranaihito	:P
12:11	shiranaihito	you're confusing me :p
12:11	llasram	Oh, like (partial mk-my-record-fn record)
12:12	shiranaihito	but the record kind of represents both "state" _and_ something to call.. it's supposed to act like a ring handler, and ofc, it's like a part of a web-application too
12:12	llasram	I see
12:12	shiranaihito	hmm, well, i guess i'll just continue and see how it goes.. looks promising so far
12:12	shiranaihito	thanks for the tip!
12:24	btcNeverSleeps	hey all, I'm trying to learn macro and I want to try to write a macro which can take either 1 or 2 argument, but which should fail if there are 0 or 3 arguments passed to the macro. Is (defmacro sample [a & [b & c]] ...) the way to go?
12:25	sir	btcNeverSleeps: or sir you could do two bodies, one with one arg, one with two
12:25	sir	btcNeverSleeps: sir that would likely be the cleanest way
12:26	btcNeverSleeps	sir: so macros, just like functions, can accept multiple arities?
12:26	sir	btcNeverSleeps: yes sir
12:26	btcNeverSleeps	sir: thank you sir!
12:26	sir	btcNeverSleeps: you're welcome sir
12:27	hyPiRion	I thought #clojure suddenly turned extremely polite, then I realised sir is a nickname.
12:28	btcNeverSleeps	seems to be the nickname of someone extremely polite ^ ^
12:29	sir	btcNeverSleeps: why thank you sir
12:29	hyPiRion	sir, your nickname makes everyone so polite. So magical.
12:30	dkinzer	:)
12:33	btcNeverSleeps	does this look correct to you: (defmacro sample ([a] `(uch ~a nil)) ([a b] `(do (println "a: " '~a " b: " '~b) ~a ~b))) (trying to write a macro with arity either 1 or 2, but not 0 nor 3+)
12:33	btcNeverSleeps	oops
12:33	btcNeverSleeps	(defmacro sample ([a] `(sample ~a nil)) ([a b] `(do (println "a: " '~a " b: " '~b) ~a ~b)))
12:33	sir	btcNeverSleeps: seems right to me sir
12:34	hyPiRion	humm, is Eastwood/some other linter able to detect poor usage of transients?
12:34	sir-or-maam	btcNeverSleeps: You can test it with commands like (macroexpand '(sample arg1 arg2 arg3))
12:36	justin_smith	hyPiRion: if they don't one would think it would be easy to add
12:37	justin_smith	hyPiRion: https://github.com/jonase/eastwood/search?q=transient&ref=cmdform
12:38	sir	btcNeverSleeps: only way to find out is to try it and see sir
12:38	hyPiRion	justin_smith: hrm, doesn't look too comprehensive
12:38	sir	btcNeverSleeps: also, try to never use macros
12:38	sir	btcNeverSleeps: macros are almost never ever worth it
12:40	justin_smith	https://github.com/jonase/eastwood/blob/266a76732da84d829de21ab3e3ad50b50e826adc/resource/var-info.edn hyPiRion a search for ! in this ns finds the transient ops, plus "warn-if-ret-val-unused" on all of them
12:40	justin_smith	which should be what we would want
12:41	justin_smith	*in this resource edn file
12:41	hyPiRion	justin_smith: That's part of it, but it should complain if I do e.g. (do (conj! a 1) (conj! a 2))
12:42	justin_smith	wouldn't "warn-if-ret-val-unused" complain about that?
12:42	justin_smith	or do I misunderstand that flag?
12:42	hyPiRion	justin_smith: alright, perhaps this is a better example
12:42	btcNeverSleeps	sir: I'm writing a macro which spawns a thread (consuming from a queue) which shall should stay active for the lifecycle of the app and which shall take care of logging should an exception happen (otherwise if I never deref the future I may miss the exception). So I need to "wrap" code in a try / catch block.
12:43	hyPiRion	(let [a (transient! #{1 2}) b (conj! a 3) c (conj! a 4)] [a b c]) is very bad
12:43	btcNeverSleeps	sir: don't know if I should do it with a function or a macro
12:43	justin_smith	oh yeah...
12:43	hyPiRion	So a linter should invalidate multiple transient calls on the same transient.
12:43	justin_smith	hyPiRion: that requires some higher order logic for sure - more than we seein in Eastwood I think
12:43	sir	btcNeverSleeps: it'd be significantly better to write it as a function that takes a (possibly anonymous) function sir
12:43	justin_smith	right
12:43	hyPiRion	justin_smith: probably
12:44	hyPiRion	I haven't looked too much at Eastwood, which is why I asked in the first place :p
12:44	sir	btcNeverSleeps: the only legitimate reason for writing macros is to "extend" the language in an extremely generic and unspecific way, like ->> and -> do, for example
12:44	btcNeverSleeps	sir: it'd be significantly better because macros would be avoided?
12:45	sir	btcNeverSleeps: yes, macros are significantly less flexible than functions and should be avoided mostly.
12:45	sir	btcNeverSleeps: the good news is that your original question still applies even to writing functions, so your learning this morning has not been in vain sir
12:45	btcNeverSleeps	sir: it's late afternoon on this side of the pond sir! ; )
12:46	justin_smith	btcNeverSleeps: it may help to ask yourself "will making this a macro offer anything a function wouldn't?" - if no, functions are simpler and easier to reason about and to use
12:46	hyPiRion	~UGT
12:46	clojurebot	UGT is Universal Greeting Time http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
12:46	sir	btcNeverSleeps: ugt is intended to fix that, but which has flaws of its own
12:47	sir	UGT is the Go of sociality.
12:47	btcNeverSleeps	I like it, UGT looks nice.
12:47	sir	So did Go.
12:47	btcNeverSleeps	so now I learned two things this morning!
12:47	hyPiRion	hehe
12:47	hyPiRion	It's always morning on IRC
12:47	sir	Sounds like a good time to call it a day and pack it up.
12:48	justin_smith	{{greeting-for time-of-day}} {{time-of-day}} everyone!
12:48	Averell	this morning (ugt)?
12:49	btcNeverSleeps	back to my question: if I write a function (instead of a macro), then I now have to pass one (or two) function(s) as argument(s). Doesn't using functions instead of macros lead to code with lots of (anonymous) functions? (at least when your macro/functions plans to "wrap" code)?
12:50	sir	btcNeverSleeps: yes, and that's good
12:50	sir	btcNeverSleeps: anonymous functions are not that hard or ugly to create in Clojure, and very flexible too.
12:50	hyPiRion	not sure what you mean
12:51	hyPiRion	,(defn foo ([a] (foo a 1)) ([a b] (+ a b)))
12:51	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
12:51	sir	btcNeverSleeps: look at the API for compojure, it works almost entirely on anonymous functions
12:51	sir	btcNeverSleeps: actually don't look at it
12:51	hyPiRion	,[(foo 1) (foo 1 2)]
12:51	clojurebot	[2 3]
12:52	sir	hyPiRion: sir he seems more concerned about it being verbose if he doesn't hide the creation of anonymous fns for the end-user
12:52	hyPiRion	oh right, in the macro he created
12:52	btcNeverSleeps	I'll give an example
12:52	sir	btcNeverSleeps: use refheap.com sir
12:55	btcNeverSleeps	,(defmacro tm [code] (let [t (gensym)] `(try ~code (catch Throwable ~t (println "doing logging here")))))
12:55	clojurebot	btcNeverSleeps: Gabh mo leithscéal?
12:55	hyPiRion	not allowed, I'm afraid
12:55	btcNeverSleeps	macros aren't allowed?
12:55	hyPiRion	not in clojurebot
12:56	btcNeverSleeps	I see, I'll use refheap
12:56	hyPiRion	Or perhaps it's the try catch statement
12:56	justin_smith	btcNeverSleeps: why not use & code / ~@code to allow an arbitrary body of expressions (which try already supports)
12:57	justin_smith	also t# ... ~t#
12:58	justin_smith	and maybe (let [t# (gensym "ErrorCaught") ...
13:03	btcNeverSleeps	https://www.refheap.com/78308
13:04	btcNeverSleeps	the goal is both to solve my issue and to learn how (and when to use or not) macros ^ ^
13:06	btcNeverSleeps	I don't want to have to manually call try / catch and add specific logging code everytime I'll run producers / consumers that shall live for the lifecycle of the app
13:07	btcNeverSleeps	so instead of doing (future ...) I want to do something like (spawn-with-logging-if-exception-caught ...) [name is facetious], but which acts like a future, excepts that exceptions are transparently caught and logged
13:07	btcNeverSleeps	because I've had the case where exceptions in future would "magically" disappear (I've seen both blogs entries and talks about Clojure mentioning that "feature" )
13:07	btcNeverSleeps	for example, at the REPL:
13:08	btcNeverSleeps	,(future (/ 0 0))
13:08	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: no threads please>
13:08	btcNeverSleeps	ok well... at the REPL this give a "division by zero"
13:08	btcNeverSleeps	but
13:08	justin_smith	btcNeverSleeps: my suggestion for the macro (tested and works in my repl) https://www.refheap.com/78309
13:08	btcNeverSleeps	(future (do (Thread/sleep 1000) (/ 0 0)))
13:08	btcNeverSleeps	(future (do (Thread/sleep 1000) (/ 0 0))) <-- exception is now nowhere to be seen, magically disappeared once a small delay is introduced
13:09	justin_smith	btcNeverSleeps: is this in emacs?
13:09	justin_smith	you will see it if you have the repl running in a terminal (this is why I avoid the *-jack-in commands actually)
13:09	sir	It's like I always say: use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
13:10	btcNeverSleeps	justin_smith: yup, in Emacs
13:10	justin_smith	there will likely be a <foo>-messages buffer that catches some if not all of that stuff
13:10	btcNeverSleeps	ah damn
13:10	justin_smith	yeah, that is why I don't use the jack-in stuff - just connect to a repl in a terminal, the extra step adds clarity
13:11	btcNeverSleeps	justin_smith: do you connect to a repl in a terminal from inside Emacs? (say from an eshell Emacs buffer) Or directly in a "real" terminal, without using Emacs for the REPL at all?
13:11	justin_smith	I start the repl in a terminal, and it opens a repl listener, I connect to that via emacs
13:12	justin_smith	some things print in the emacs repl, some print in that terminal, but nothing goes missing (or so it seems)
13:12	btcNeverSleeps	justin_smith: ah, that's interesting, so I do, say "lein repl" and then what do I need to do from Emacs?
13:12	justin_smith	do you use cider or nrepl?
13:12	btcNeverSleeps	cider
13:12	justin_smith	M-x cider
13:13	justin_smith	give it the port name that lein repl printed
13:13	btcNeverSleeps	gotcha... cider, without -jack-in
13:13	justin_smith	yeah
13:13	justin_smith	bonus, you can kill emacs without losing the repl, and visa versa
13:13	justin_smith	(or more easily do these things)
13:14	btcNeverSleeps	I'll probably do that too from now on... In addition to that I'm using timbre/{debug,info,warn,error} logging for my app and have a terminal constantly doing a "tail -F logfile"
13:14	btcNeverSleeps	justin_smith: sounds great, definitely trying it ASAP
13:14	justin_smith	you can think of it as connecting the repl and editor, rather than trying to combine them (with all kinds of leaky abstraction); "decomplecting", as they say
13:15	justin_smith	btcNeverSleeps: another option is that emacs has a tail mode
13:15	justin_smith	M-x auto-revert-tail-mode
13:15	justin_smith	(on the log file buffer, of course)
13:15	btcNeverSleeps	I like timbre's ANSI logging (for exceptions it is really quite clear and helpful, the colored output really helps). I also configured my Emacs / cider buffer so that ANSI escapes are converted to colors.
13:16	justin_smith	cool
13:16	btcNeverSleeps	justin_smith: I'll check auto-revert-tail-mode too
13:16	owl-v-	I'm having some difficult time getting the concept of (lazy-seq)
13:17	btcNeverSleeps	owl-v-: takes some time to get used to, best is probably to try to write some and things should become clearer
13:17	justin_smith	owl-v-: it is the only way to create something lazy, as far as I know
13:19	btcNeverSleeps	owl-v-: funny that Rich Hickey's only answer on SO is about lazy seqs and doall: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1641626/how-to-convert-lazy-sequence-to-non-lazy-in-clojure
13:19	coventry	owl-v-: You're not supposed to learn from clojure.core, but you might have a look at these functions: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L2618
13:22	coventry	owl-v-: It's useful to take those and redefine them with (println)s in the beginnings of the functions and the (when) blocks and see how they behave as you take elements from the seqs they create.
13:28	dbasch	coventry: btw, I solved my cljs config for dev/prod with different paths to config.cljs in profiles. I prefer avoiding macros for those things.
13:28	dbasch	in fact I prefer avoiding macros period :)
13:29	coventry	I have a weakness for macros, but that sounds like a good arrangement. :-)
13:29	justin_smith	dbasch: what we do is to have resources/config/production.clj resources/config/development.clj etc. (really they are edn files we should fix the naming0
13:29	justin_smith	and then a runtim var decides which config to load
13:29	justin_smith	so the same artifact can be run locally, on staging, or on prod
13:31	dbasch	justin_smith: the problem is that for cljs you have one extra level of indirection
13:31	justin_smith	oh yeah, the artifact creation (and you may want to create a different js artifact based on config...)
13:34	dbasch	owl-v-: do the 4clojure exercises about lazy sequences, that forces you to learn
13:35	sandwichmaker	http://technomancy.us/161
13:35	sandwichmaker	oops sorry for that one, at least wasn't a password or a secret formula for success
13:36	sir	sandwichmaker: Yes you accidentally pasted that from #emacs sir.
13:37	sandwichmaker	sir: yeah, I clicked the mouse wheel by accident after selecting the url you wrote there :)
13:38	sir	sandwichmaker: I don't use linux anymore so I don't have that happen anymore fortunately.
13:39	justin_smith	Middle button paste is like my favorite thing. You may want to remap the scroll wheel button not to be button 2 though :)
13:39	sandwichmaker	sir: lol , I can understand that, I continually switch between OSX and Linux. I love them both, I hate them both :(
13:39	sir	sandwichmaker: sir I feel the same way
13:40	sandwichmaker	justin_smith: good advice
13:40	justin_smith	in .Xmodmap: pointer = 1 7 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 (not middle button is a back button in your web browser)
13:40	justin_smith	*now
13:40	sandwichmaker	:)
13:41	justin_smith	oh, sorry, 8 is the one for back in a browser
13:41	justin_smith	mutatis mutandis
13:41	hyPiRion	haha
13:52	owl-v-	dbasch: thanks
14:02	holo	hi
14:02	holo	is there any way to build clojurescript on the REPL?
14:05	holo	I mean like lein cljsbuild once
14:06	sir	Are there any theories on the declining popularity of Clojure?
14:07	sir	Perhaps it could be due to Scala having a more familiar syntax and semantics to Java and Ruby than Clojure, which is more Lisp like and thus off-putting?
14:07	hyPiRion	declining? I thought it was steadily increasing, at least from what I gather from the Clojure surveys
14:07	llasram	sir: Yeah -- what suggests there is a declining popularity to Clojure?
14:08	holo	I converted a human to clojure recently :)
14:08	mi6x3m	hey clojure, I need some explanation about metadata
14:08	gtrak	sir: I've never heard this argument :-)
14:08	mi6x3m	it is the var that caries the metadata, right?
14:08	mi6x3m	not the symbol
14:08	mi6x3m	but on the otherhand, the symbol is bound to the var
14:08	amalloy	mi6x3m: i mean, you can put metadata on symbols and on vars. on lots of things, really
14:08	mi6x3m	unless I miss something and there's a way to create a 2nd reference to a var
14:08	mi6x3m	amalloy: but is it the same?
14:09	sir	amalloy: but not consistently, such as not any kind of seq, only some kinds
14:09	hyPiRion	Scala came out earlier than Clojure, and they've been working more heavily on marketing Scala for the enterprise afaik. So it follows that it is more popular than Clojure right now
14:09	amalloy	well, only metadata on vars typically has stuff like :arglists, :tag, :added
14:09	amalloy	that's added by the defn macro
14:09	llasram	mi6x3m: I mean, if you use `def`/`defn`, at run-time the metadata ends up on the Var
14:09	technomancy	holo: what did you do with the body when you were done?
14:09	llasram	But you can p
14:09	amalloy	but you could in principle put it on a symbol too if you wanted
14:09	llasram	ack
14:09	hyPiRion	Although I don't know if the growth decreases or increases relative to Scala's growth.
14:10	mi6x3m	amalloy: ok, I see
14:10	amalloy	and you can certainly have many symbols referencing the same var
14:10	holo	technomancy haha :}
14:10	mi6x3m	so var and symbol are different in terms of metadata
14:10	gtrak	we have 770 folks in the IRC channel here, and #scala has 470, just a data-point, maybe clojurists like IRC more :-)
14:10	llasram	mi6x3m: Well, when you have metadata on a symbol, it is on that instance of the symbol with a particular name
14:11	technomancy	holo: I'm imagining something like http://makerbot-blog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/TronTeleport.jpg
14:11	mi6x3m	llasram: symbols have instances?
14:11	mi6x3m	wat
14:11	holo	I heard rumours 2014 was the year that #clojure overcomes #ruby
14:11	llasram	,(identical? 'foo 'foo)
14:11	mi6x3m	isn't a symbol just itself
14:11	clojurebot	false
14:11	llasram	,(identical? :foo :foo)
14:11	clojurebot	true
14:12	mi6x3m	llasram: I see
14:12	llasram	THat self-identity is what keywords are for, and is part of why keywords don't support metadata
14:12	sir	hyPiRion: Scala has a much more familiar syntax and semantics, being naturally imperative and line-based, with only a small part of functionality programming embedded
14:12	Bronsa	mi6x3m: unlike keywords, symbols are not interned.
14:12	mi6x3m	Bronsa: but how come
14:12	mi6x3m	what is the motivation of this
14:12	llasram	Well for one thing it lets you have different metadata on different instances of a symbol :-)
14:12	Bronsa	mi6x3m: metadata
14:12	gtrak	sir: you should try ruby, it sounds right for you.
14:13	mi6x3m	only this reason ?
14:13	mi6x3m	interesting
14:13	Bronsa	mi6x3m: I don't know of any other
14:13	llasram	gtrak: Hey, keep it clean. No need for insults
14:13	sir	gtrak: sir thank you for the suggestion it is not my intention to switch languages I am merely asking the question to provoke thought within the intellects
14:13	sir	gtrak: there is no better way to growth within the community continuous learning
14:15	holo	they invented the Continuous Integration, the Continuous Deployment, now the Continuous Learning. what next? :D
14:15	mi6x3m	Bronsa: so evaluating "foo" creates a new instance of this symbol ?
14:17	gtrak	llasram: was curious if parkour can do sorts
14:17	gtrak	cursory examination said no.
14:18	llasram	gtrak: In what sense? Generally Hadoop sorts for you
14:18	llasram	There's some tricks you can do to get what's called a "total order sort", which Hadoop comes with some utility classes to setup
14:19	llasram	I've never needed it, so have not yet integrated that into Parkour, but it should be usable via interop
14:19	amalloy	mi6x3m: i mean, you have to be careful, because "foo" is a string, not a symbol. and if you actually evaluate the symbol foo, you get whatever the value of foo is in the current context. only when the reader reads the string "foo", or you evaluate 'foo, or you evaluate something like (symbol "foo"), is an instance of Symbol created
14:20	gtrak	ah yea? maybe I'll give it a try. Just thinking through a problem, my experience is with cascading mostly, but I wouldn't use that to actually use hadoop :-).
14:20	llasram	gtrak: Cool. Feel free to ping me if you've got any questions
14:21	gtrak	thanks!
14:24	tpope	gtrak: :argslist-str should probably be "" rather than "nil" if there's no arglists
14:25	tpope	almost opened an issue but I feel weird popping up in emacs land
14:26	gtrak	ah, I can fix that :-)
14:26	amalloy	tpope: there's no visa requirements at the border. you're welcome to visit
14:27	gtrak	tpope: do you need the key to be there at all in that case? I bet that could happen for normal vars and namespaces.
14:27	tpope	nah
14:34	tpope	gtrak: I'm also wondering if you could provide a home for a "classpath" op, if I implemented it. you've already got a java.classpath dependency so it should be a trivial addition
14:35	gtrak	yea, that sounds reasonable
14:35	tpope	awesome, it's my last significant eval
14:35	tpope	the rest is just bs like require and macroexpand-1
14:36	gtrak	what do you use the classpath for?
14:37	tpope	gtrak: heuristically determining which repl connection to use, jump to source, and populating vim's 'path' option, which enables assorted built-in behavior
14:38	bbloom	tpope: you're practically a vim ambassador in the lisp embassy at this point. you should totally just go chill in #emacs
14:38	gtrak	ah, interesting.
14:38	bbloom	(i know nothing about diplomats, i'm sure that makes no sense)
14:38	tpope	lol
14:40	justin_smith	also you will have diplomatic immunity vs. any charges of trolling
14:40	justin_smith	if you get ambassador status, that is
14:41	gtrak	tpope: ah, that's why you want the relative path.
14:41	gtrak	not sure we handle jump-to-def on remote repls, but it would need something like this.
14:43	tpope	yeah admittedly it's still mostly a hypothetical for me. but I was thinking about this use case from the start
14:43	gtrak	so, you grab the classpath, and I'm guessing you could mirror it in the local maven repo? peel off the right prefix?
14:44	gtrak	that's assuming the project is running in lein with maven classpaths.
14:44	tpope	gtrak: I guess you could, but right now I just ignore the classpath from any repl that appears to be remote
14:45	gtrak	you'd be able to see the project's CLJ files, but nothing more in that case.
14:45	tpope	and another plugin optionally provides a fallback of `lein classpath` if there's not a local repl
14:46	gtrak	ah
14:47	tpope	I figure the common use case is just to have an implicit local connection from .nrepl-port, and then any remote connection will shadow that for most things
14:51	danno	(def counter (agent 0)) \n (send counter inc) \n (println @counter) hangs when run on the command line
14:51	danno	Any ideas?
14:51	amalloy	your repl is broken, danno. that works fine
14:52	danno	amalloy: not using REPL
14:52	amalloy	oh. you're talking about running that from the actual unix shell?
14:53	amalloy	$google clojure shutdown-agents stackoverflow
14:53	danno	yes. ;)
14:53	lazybot	[clojure - Restart agent thread-pool after calling ... - Stack Overflow] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2944900/restart-agent-thread-pool-after-calling-shutdown-agents
14:53	amalloy	bah
14:53	amalloy	~shutdown-agents
14:53	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
14:53	justin_smith	~agents
14:53	clojurebot	agents put it on a queue and call it George
14:53	amalloy	anyway, the point is thread pools are confusing
14:53	danno	ha.
14:54	danno	still not using a REPL though.
14:54	amalloy	danno: agents have a thread pool, with threads that hang around for a couple minutes in case you have more work for them
14:54	technomancy	amalloy: wait, wouldn't thread pool shutdown just cause that to print zero?
14:54	danno	it prints 0, but hangs
14:54	amalloy	technomancy: no, the point is it's printing (either 0 or 1), and then hanging
14:54	amalloy	he just didn't actually say that
14:54	technomancy	oh, well that's different then
14:54	danno	yeah, that's right
14:54	amalloy	i had to use my psychic powers :)
14:54	danno	haha
14:55	llasram	I love psychic debugging
14:55	justin_smith	cold reading is an art
14:55	danno	Ill try (shutdown-agents) even though I am not running on REPL
14:55	danno	nice
14:55	danno	thanks amalloy
14:55	amalloy	you need to shutdown agents because you're not using the repl
14:55	technomancy	llasram: "I sense ... deep pain. I sense... using def inside a function definition. Such suffering."
14:56	justinholguin	danno: FWIW, I ran that code with lein exec and it exited after printing
14:56	justinholguin	no (shutdown-agents)
14:56	amalloy	what's your clojure-version, danno? i don't recall having run into this problem in recent versions; maybe it's fixed?
14:56	danno	amalloy: ohhhhhhhh
14:57	danno	amalloy: clojure-1.7.0-master-SNAPSHOT.jar
14:57	amalloy	well, that's recent all right
14:57	danno	I just fetch recent updates now and then from github and use that
14:57	amalloy	wow, running from source?
14:57	danno	amalloy: yes
14:58	amalloy	like, you can do that, but it sounds like a lot of work
14:58	danno	amalloy: Not too bad. mvn clean package and go
14:58	amalloy	sure, but why bother? lein is so much easier
14:58	justin_smith	clojure has some of the best dependency management in the programming world, so forgoing it is an interesting choice
14:59	danno	I hadn't gotten around to that yet, picked up language in January
14:59	danno	justin_smith: Just my maturity with the language at this point
15:00	danno	justin_smith: Just learning right now, nothing where I require dependencies etc.
15:00	justin_smith	fair enough, IME lein will make things easier, with very few exceptions
15:00	justin_smith	even if your only dep is clojure itself
15:00	amalloy	yeah, lein makes everything easier
15:00	danno	I am sure if I am doing a project with dependencies, etc. lein would be where I first go to.
15:00	technomancy	even without lein, not using a repl is pretty handicapping
15:01	justin_smith	danno: even with only clojure as a dep, lein simplifies things (ie. lein jar / lein uberjar / lein check / lein test / lein compile ...)
15:01	danno	justin_smith, amalloy, technomancy: Also this is my project: https://github.com/dhinojosa/language-matrix/tree/master/clojure
15:02	danno	I am just using this as learning and creating small samples of 10 languages that I know, or are trying to learn
15:02	technomancy	but if you've only used the repl that ships with clojure I can see why you would think repls aren't worth bothering with =\
15:02	danno	technomancy: My interest is piqued.
15:02	technomancy	danno: part of the point of lisp is interactive programming
15:02	danno	I like REPLs. I found that Clojure's doesn't have tab completion
15:02	technomancy	a big part
15:03	danno	Am I wrong?
15:03	justin_smith	danno: lein repl has it, at least
15:03	technomancy	yeah, clojure's built-in repl is more of a proof-of-concept than something that people actually use
15:03	justin_smith	dunno about naked clojure repl
15:03	llasram	You can wrap it in rlwrap, but there's usually little need to
15:03	danno	oh, I get the lein thing then
15:03	technomancy	justin_smith: iirc the built-in one doesn't even have arrow support
15:03	amalloy	justin_smith: the naked repl has like nothing. for all features x, clojure.jar's repl does not include x
15:04	danno	part of its power is its repl
15:04	amalloy	technomancy: right you are
15:04	technomancy	it's pretty stone-age
15:04	llasram	amalloy: Can it read, evaluate, print, or loop?
15:04	justin_smith	lol
15:04	amalloy	llasram: allegedly. i never manage to type in a form correctly on the first try, and i can't use readline or arrow-key stuff to edit, so i just give up before i finish a form
15:04	danno	liasram: The basic REPL does that. My strength is with Scala and Java. Scala's REPL is pretty nice.
15:04	llasram	I'll agree it lacks literally all non-essential features of a REPL though :-)
15:05	danno	I was comparing the Clojure Basic with Scala's.
15:05	justin_smith	danno: also, ns-publics, clojure.repl/apropos, clojure.repl/doc and clojure.repl/source
15:05	llasram	amalloy: Haha. Good point.
15:05	justin_smith	are godsends
15:05	danno	But sounds like a better match would be with lein
15:05	danno	I do love doc and source
15:05	danno	that is fancy goods right there
15:06	amalloy	anyway, danno, neat project. now imagine if instead of a million little files with their own :main, it was one file you just load into your repl and type (for-example), eh?
15:06	amalloy	you wouldn't have to keep tearing down and restarting the jvm and the clojure runtime
15:07	danno	amalloy: I will look into that. (for-example)
15:07	danno	amalloy: Not sure if I will go with that, because this project will have equivalent C, C++, Java, Clojure, Scala, etc.
15:07	danno	and all that is command line, and don't expect anyone who finds value in it, to load lein
15:08	amalloy	i look forward to reading the equivalent MacroExample.java
15:08	danno	but as someone who is interested in more of the language, I am interested in it for other projs.
15:08	danno	thanks amalloy
15:10	danno	I think by end of May I will have most of what I need to know about Clojure in this cranium of mine. Ha
15:10	justin_smith	amalloy: (throw (UnsupportedOperationException.)) <- just translate this to java
15:16	danno	So another question to all: You work on clojure full time for a living?
15:16	justin_smith	yes
15:16	rberdeen	danno: not yet
15:17	justin_smith	(well sometimes I have to mess with devops and stuff but technically I am a clojure programmer)
15:17	llasram	danno: Most-of-the-time. We have some mostly-legacy stuff in other languages, some devops, etc. But pretty much all new code in Clojure
15:17	danno	Very interesting, I bet tons of fun
15:18	justin_smith	I would definitely consider myself spoiled for other languages for the most part, at this point
15:19	danno	justin_smith: I would never consider a mutable preferred language anymore.
15:20	tbaldridge	+1 to that
15:20	justin_smith	agreed
15:20	gtrak	oiy.. yea, not sure what the next lang I'll learn will be, or when.
15:20	tbaldridge	If I had to pick a language other than clojure (and couldn't write my own), I'd probably pick F#
15:20	gtrak	elisp with reluctance..
15:20	justin_smith	(except those same special cases where I would use mutability in clojure: things with such great real time data processing needs that I truly need mutation).
15:20	tbaldridge	it's static typed, but the syntax is so minimal that it approaches lisps in simplicity
15:21	justin_smith	tbaldridge: how would you compare it to OCaml?
15:21	tbaldridge	justin_smith: I only know a minimal amount of OCaml, but F# is more OOP than OCaml.
15:22	technomancy	F# actually has concurrency, which is kinda great
15:22	gtrak	I've heard really good things about F#
15:22	justin_smith	that is nice
15:22	tbaldridge	justin_smith: it differs really only in interop syntax.
15:22	technomancy	I mean, depending on what you're doing
15:23	justin_smith	also CLR language means better lib options via interop I assume (or at least better / easier integration of libs)
15:24	justin_smith	I tried to make OCaml bindings once upon a time - made the mistake of picking a lib that was implicitly mp which made a bunch of "this should really be working" type bugs happen.
15:27	tbaldridge	justin_smith: yeah the interop story on the CLR is better if you have a static typed lang. Clojure on the CLR is...interesting due to the lack of type erasure.
15:29	amalloy	technomancy: is there a lein profile that's active only when i'm connected via jack-in?
15:29	amalloy	(using swank still)
15:29	technomancy	amalloy: no
15:29	llasram	amalloy: !!!!
15:29	amalloy	llasram: i've tried nrepl/cider a few times. have not been impressed
15:29	technomancy	amalloy: you can change your command to lein with-profile +swank swank
15:29	justin_smith	he's trying to win a long-haired-yak competition
15:30	amalloy	ah, that makes sense. thanks
15:30	technomancy	np
15:30	llasram	amalloy: OOC what do you find is missing vs swank?
15:31	gtrak	amalloy: cider's getting a bunch of new features lately, we don't have a real release of it yet..
15:31	technomancy	gtrak: no problem just use melpa
15:31	llasram	ho ho ho
15:31	gtrak	gtrak: sure. :-)
15:31	technomancy	then instead of just having cider break, you can have everything break
15:31	gtrak	technomancy: sure :-)
15:32	gtrak	didn't I mention I was learning elisp reluctantly?
15:32	gtrak	the package story is a massive headache.
15:32	amalloy	llasram: mostly i found the behavior around exceptions pretty intolerable
15:32	technomancy	gtrak: it's really not that bad if you stick to stable releases
15:32	technomancy	gtrak: it's the people who insist on "SNAPSHOT ALL THE THINGS" that cause the headaches
15:33	amalloy	i don't really remember the details; i always block it out of my mind, and re-discover what's wrong next time i reluctantly give it a try
15:33	llasram	amalloy: Huh. I have personally found no problems in that sphere
15:33	gtrak	technomancy: yea, I feel like I've got little control over the packages at this point, but I am running melpa, everything's not updated all the time, though.
15:33	technomancy	amalloy: you have to turn on "actually display stack traces" for whatever reason, which is dumb. but once you do that it's ok.
15:34	gtrak	technomancy: really I just want to see how many projects we can destroy by either making cider itself provide the needed functionality.
15:35	gtrak	sorry, spurious either*
15:35	technomancy	gtrak: code deletion is the best thing
15:36	gtrak	every related or dependent project is still evaling clojure code.. either we need to define a real API for cider, or subsume/ignore them :-).
15:36	gtrak	on the elisp-side..
15:37	technomancy	replacing slamhound.el with nrepl-discover.el was a pretty smooth process
15:37	gtrak	yea, I'd like to get there, I feel like I have a working understanding now.
15:54	whodidthis	how do i (distinct) a vector of maps by specific keys of the maps
16:03	dbasch	whodidthis: what’s the use case? why can’t you just merge all the maps?
16:03	dbasch	whodidthis: the obvious way would be to loop over the maps, keep a set of the keys and ignore maps for keys you’ve seen
16:04	ivan	is there a better way to do (-> policy (assoc :path (if (:path policy) (i/as-path (:path policy))))) without extending as-path over nil?
16:06	bbloom	ivan: update-in and fnil ?
16:07	ivan	bbloom: thanks! I'll give that a try
16:10	ivan	fnil still calls f on the replacement value?
16:11	bbloom	ivan: yeah
16:11	bbloom	(doc fnil)
16:11	clojurebot	"([f x] [f x y] [f x y z]); Takes a function f, and returns a function that calls f, replacing a nil first argument to f with the supplied value x. Higher arity versions can replace arguments in the second and third positions (y, z). Note that the function f can take any number of arguments, not just the one(s) being nil-patched."
16:11	ivan	anything built-in that doesn't?
16:12	bbloom	ivan: what about something like this...
16:13	bbloom	,(update-in {:x 1} [:x] #(and % (inc %)))
16:13	clojurebot	{:x 2}
16:13	bbloom	,(update-in {:x 1} [:y] #(and % (inc %)))
16:13	clojurebot	{:y nil, :x 1}
16:13	ivan	bbloom: aha, thank you!
16:16	whodidthis	dbasch: ignoring duplicate File's in cljs by file name and size because user added file objects arent going to be equal for the same files. but yeah probably better to check if duplicate before conjing those bad boys
16:28	dbasch	whodidthis: do your maps have multiple, possibly overlapping keys?
16:31	whodidthis	im trying to find out duplicate-by-name-and-size from [{:name "a" :size 5 :file Obj} {:name "b" :size 6 :file Obj} {:name "a" :size 5 :file Obj} ...]
16:33	dbasch	whodidthis: you could do (group-by keys maps) and then pick the first of each group
16:33	rasmusto	whodidthis: (group-by #(select-keys % ...) maps) maybe
16:34	dbasch	whodidthis: yes, what rasmusto says if you want to restrict it to name and size
16:34	whodidthis	oh sweet, kind of like in sql
16:34	whodidthis	thank you
16:42	arrdem	Bronsa: gsoc accepted I assume?
16:46	Bronsa	arrdem: yes, you too?
16:55	tuft	what projects are you guys doing?
17:00	sdegutis	tuft: I'm working on work.
17:00	sdegutis	tuft: it's a web app mostly written in Datomic
17:01	sdegutis	tuft: with a lot of Compojure though too
17:34	kenrestivo	mystery function. needs a name, and, also, does this already exist somewhere else in another library maybe? https://www.refheap.com/78333
17:38	amalloy	kenrestivo: i think that's clojure.walk/walk
17:39	amalloy	close to it, anyway
17:39	coventry	Only does one level, though.
17:39	amalloy	coventry: so does walk
17:39	coventry	Good point.
17:40	kenrestivo	hmm, i must have stolen the "outer"/"inner" terminology from walk
17:41	kenrestivo	i'll play around with it and see if i could replace that with walk, thanks.
17:42	kenrestivo	tho, what i was trying to accomplish was to not have outer be a #(assoc-in % [:x] y), but rather to take all those as & args as a convenience
17:50	tuft	sdegutis: cool -- i was referring to arrdem and Bronsa's gsoc projects, but nice to hear. =)
17:50	tuft	sdegutis: i'm doing a hobby project with datomic. no front-end yet
17:51	tuft	sdegutis: one of my favorite features so far is passing seqs of triples as the dbval during testing, and verifying properties of the transaction returned. so much better than loading fixtures into some ORM thing and checking for side-effects.
17:52	Bronsa	tuft I'll be working on porting the cljs analyzer to tools.analyzer & more work on tools.analyzer[.jvm]
17:53	sdegutis	Oh.
17:53	sdegutis	tuft: neat
17:53	sdegutis	tuft: I had not even thought of doing that. I am testing side-effects.
17:54	sdegutis	tuft: Have you written any blog post about this yet? It seems like a good alternative to how we do it now.
17:59	tuft	sdegutis: i should, there were gotchas and scant info involved
17:59	sdegutis	:)
17:59	sdegutis	tuft: I'm sure the mailing list would love to hear when you've written it.
18:03	tuft	Bronsa: cool. is this for static analysis of clojure code in clojure?
18:09	Bronsa	tuft: the AST can be used for static analysis, yes, but also as a backend for compilers (tools.emitter.jvm being one)
18:11	bbloom	Bronsa: s/backend/frontend ? middle end? IR?
18:11	justin_smith	just watch 20 custom readers all targetting that ast come out as soon as that is done
18:11	bbloom	:-P
18:12	hiredman	justin_smith: seems unlikely
18:12	Bronsa	bbloom: yeah definitely not backend. I always mix those.
18:13	bbloom	Bronsa: back vs front is all a perspective thing anyway. analyzer can be the backend from the perspective of somebody's parser :-)
18:17	tuft	Bronsa: moments later i'm coincidentally listening to dnolen mention you and explain more on cognicast #054 =)
18:17	gtrak	Bronsa: hopefully it's just as easy to support auto-complete/info with the new analyzer..
18:18	gtrak	in a cljs repl
18:18	Bronsa	tuft: baader-meinhof hits again
18:19	gtrak	(also looking forward to when we get a clj-in-clj repl :-)
18:22	gtrak	I hope cider-nrepl will support these in a unified way
18:30	rasmusto	is this bad? I want a side-effecty function to output something to /resources so I can put it into an uberjar
18:31	justin_smith	so a side effect you want specifically during jar build time?
18:32	rasmusto	justin_smith: yeah, that sounds right
18:32	justin_smith	you could add an injection to the :production profile in project.clj (or maybe there is a profile like "build")
18:33	hiredman	rasmusto: it is easy to screw that kind of thing up
18:33	justin_smith	definitely easy to screw up, yeah
18:33	hiredman	rasmusto: maybe look at https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/doc/PLUGINS.md#hooks
18:33	rasmusto	a little more context: it's a bunch of edn files that are essentially a cache of some slurp+set calls
18:33	technomancy	rasmusto: can you write to target/classes?
18:34	technomancy	that gets put on the classpath and included in jars and stuff
18:34	rasmusto	technomancy: I could. How is that different than resources + (resource "foo") ?
18:35	technomancy	rasmusto: it's already properly .gitignored, and it's easily exposed via the "clojure.compile.path" system property
18:35	technomancy	plus lein clean will nuke it
18:36	technomancy	keeping input paths segregated from output paths just seems like a good idea
18:36	rasmusto	when/how should I output to target/classes? Right now I have code in a (comment) that does it :p
18:37	technomancy	I don't really know what you're doing with it
18:40	arrdem	Bronsa: yep :D
18:40	arrdem	Bronsa: dis gon b gud
18:40	Bronsa	arrdem: awesome!
18:41	arrdem	only question is how much of Clojure I'm allowed to optimize out :P
18:45	danlamanna	anyone help me out with a dependency not seeming to be on my classpath with lein run? https://gist.github.com/danlamanna/11159002
18:49	rasmusto	technomancy: when I run (System/getProperty "clojure.compile.path") in my uberjar it gives me nil, am I doing something wrong? (I know I'm going in circles a little bit)
18:50	justin_smith	danlamanna: ns forms already have their require clause quoted
18:50	justin_smith	so you should take out the '
18:50	justin_smith	also you probably want digest.core, or whatever ns digest defines
18:50	amalloy	if you have spare time, you should also murder the rascal who chose a single-segment namespace
18:50	amalloy	justin_smith: no, i just checked, it's really digest
18:51	justin_smith	well that's quaint
18:51	amalloy	https://github.com/tebeka/clj-digest/blob/master/src/digest.clj
18:51	danlamanna	justin_smith: you were right, thanks :)
18:51	technomancy	rasmusto: no, that's normal. if you run outside lein you need to set that stuff up yourself.
18:52	justin_smith	danlamanna: "quote/digest__init.class " - that's how it parsed 'digest
18:52	rasmusto	technomancy: ok, that's what I thought. Since /resources seems like a bit of a hack, I'll just set up a common directory to store my "cached" edn files
18:52	justin_smith	of course there is no ns called quote/digest so it won't find it
18:53	danlamanna	justin_smith: makes sense
18:53	justin_smith	that gives me a terrible terrible idea to create a "quote" project, and fuck with people's heads by requiring it by using an extraneous '
18:55	amalloy	justin_smith: quote.lincoln defines a string containing the gettysburg address?
18:55	justin_smith	hah
18:55	arrdem	amalloy: haha
18:56	justin_smith	(inc amalloy)
18:56	lazybot	⇒ 100
18:56	rasmusto	four__PLUS_7yearsago
18:56	arrdem	(inc rasmusto)
18:56	lazybot	⇒ 9
18:56	justin_smith	ouch
18:56	justin_smith	(inc rasmusto)
18:56	lazybot	⇒ 10
18:57	amalloy	oh...oh dear. that joke is too bad
18:57	rasmusto	bring on the decs
18:57	amalloy	i need to sit down
19:04	arrdem	,(symbol "quote.quote/'")
19:04	clojurebot	quote.quote/'
19:05	arrdem	justin_smith: ^ get on this
19:06	justin_smith	arrdem: will do, lol
19:06	justin_smith	that is so evil
19:08	justin_smith	haha, I just got (require ''lincoln) to load the quote.lincoln ns - it feels so dirty
19:08	arrdem	(dec justin_smith) ;; you earned that
19:08	lazybot	⇒ 33
19:09	arrdem	terrible terrible person
19:09	Bronsa	justin_smith: that's.. horrible
19:09	justin_smith	I know!
19:09	justin_smith	but it works
19:09	arrdem	I wish I didn't have homework so I could drown my horror at that require...
19:10	rasmusto	,(macroexpand-1 (quote (quote lincoln)))
19:10	clojurebot	(quote lincoln)
19:10	justin_smith	of course that will be full of macros that alter atoms and def inside defn...
19:10	Bronsa	rasmusto: that works because of prefix lists in require
19:13	arrdem	justin_smith: should make extensive use of this... justin_smith: should make extensive use of this...
19:13	arrdem	justin_smith: https://github.com/fredericksgary/qubits
19:14	justin_smith	hah
19:14	amalloy	justin_smith: i think ''lovecraft should contain (alter-var-root #'defmacro (constantly (fn [& args] `(quote ~(rand-nth '#{various lovecraftian horrors\|)))))
19:14	justin_smith	ouch
19:14	amalloy	or something like it, anyawy
19:14	justin_smith	yeah
19:15	justin_smith	maybe ''necronomicon would be the better name for it
19:16	amalloy	or you could mutate one of the interned Number instances
19:17	amalloy	really there are a lot of deep horrors you could put into a lovecraft library
19:18	justin_smith	indeed
19:19	justin_smith	stack traces generated using https://github.com/prismofeverything/zalgo
19:21	rasmusto	forgive me: z̷̼͖̰̜̣̗̝̞͚̹̪͛̂̚͟็็ạ̶̹͔็l̀̄͌̈̐ͫg̉̊̐͑ͮͦȏ̉̏̿̿ͩ̓ï̞̗͓̮̮͙̠͇̭͎͖̺͖̠̃̄̚็z̞̗͍̖̖̮͖̞̃͆̐͆͊̄̚็็็e͗ͣ̔ͣ
19:21	arrdem	justin_smith: what have you done...
19:21	amalloy	huh. clojurebot's sandbox allows you to actually do what i just said
19:21	amalloy	,5
19:21	clojurebot	2
19:21	justin_smith	woah...
19:21	amalloy	i'll go put things back together now
19:23	amalloy	uhhhhhh, i can't put it back. 5 is 2 now. even if you add 1 and 4 you get 2. so there's no longer a 5 to reset 5 to
19:23	amalloy	hopefully clojurebot's regular sandbox-resetting takes care of that
19:23	rasmusto	,(dec 5)
19:23	clojurebot	1
19:23	arrdem	amalloy: what have you done...
19:23	rasmusto	seems to work
19:23	arrdem	,(+ 3 5)
19:23	clojurebot	2
19:23	justin_smith	rofl
19:23	justin_smith	,(= 5 2)
19:23	clojurebot	true
19:23	justin_smith	ROFL
19:23	arrdem	I don't even have a gif for this level of wat...
19:24	justin_smith	(inc amalloy)
19:24	lazybot	⇒ 101
19:24	rasmusto	,(range 6)
19:24	clojurebot	#<IndexOutOfBoundsException java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException>
19:24	arrdem	AHAHAHAHA
19:24	rasmusto	what
19:24	arrdem	(inc amalloy)
19:24	lazybot	⇒ 102
19:24	justin_smith	lol
19:24	justin_smith	(take 10 (range 6))
19:24	justin_smith	,(take 10 (range 6))
19:24	clojurebot	#<IndexOutOfBoundsException java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException>
19:24	arrdem	amalloy: I want to see the source for this...
19:24	arrdem	,6
19:24	clojurebot	#<IndexOutOfBoundsException java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException>
19:24	arrdem	WHAT THE hahaha
19:24	amalloy	oh, it's not hard. (let [field (nth (.getDeclaredFields Long) 3)] (.setAccessible field true) (.set field 5 2))
19:24	rasmusto	,7 ;plz?
19:24	clojurebot	#<IndexOutOfBoundsException java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException>
19:24	justin_smith	,7
19:24	clojurebot	#<IndexOutOfBoundsException java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException>
19:25	amalloy	i think i broke all the numbers when i tried to put it back together
19:25	rasmusto	ah okay.
19:25	arrdem	wow.. that crowbar usage...
19:25	danlamanna	it seems if an nREPL command (in emacs) isn't responding, there's no way to just C-c C-c out of it, huh?
19:25	rasmusto	C-c C-b iirc
19:25	justin_smith	clearly the 'adams ns will turn every number up to N into 42
19:26	justin_smith	danlamanna: sometimes it takes a while, but for me C-c C-c works
19:26	amalloy	you can try C-g too, in case it's client-side emacs code that's not responding
19:27	btcNeverSleeps	re all... I read a comment here previously about Emacs and stack traces "inside" cider: <technomancy> amalloy: you have to turn on "actually display stack traces" for whatever reason, which is dumb. but once you do that it's ok.
19:27	btcNeverSleeps	Can someone tell me how you turn on "actually display stack traces"?
19:29	amalloy	hiredman: is clojurebot's auto-reload going to reload java.lang as well, or just clojurey bits?
19:30	Xe	How do you import functions from another clojure file?
19:30	Xe	Say I have main.clj and foo.clj
19:30	gtrak	Xe: namespaces
19:30	technomancy	btcNeverSleeps: M-x apropos-variable cider.*stacktrace
19:31	hiredman	amalloy: that is an interesting question
19:31	Xe	gtrak: How do I use it once I have a namespace?
19:31	gtrak	Xe: the (ns ..) form and (require ..)
19:31	Xe	so it would be
19:31	gtrak	http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/1.2.0/clojure.core/ns
19:31	hiredman	instead of trying to answer it I killed the evaluator service, and it got restarted, so shrug
19:32	arrdem	iiinteresting. tbaldridge, can I get a DL on the other accepted Lean Clojure project? we seem to be going for the same thing, unless his is atop the existing Java compiler.
19:32	gtrak	Xe: here it uses :require [clojure.string :as str] http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/1.2.0/clojure.core/ns#example_527
19:36	dbasch	gtrak: as str… pretty unfortunate example
19:36	gtrak	dbasch: still works :-)
19:36	gtrak	(str ) is str, str/ is the ns
19:36	arrdem	you didn't really want clojure.core/str anyway :P
19:36	gtrak	doesn't it?
19:36	justin_smith	:as [str] will not make str unusable
19:37	Xe	gtrak: what am I doing wrong? https://gist.github.com/2309529ee383916f2e7b
19:37	arrdem	,(require '[clojure.string :as str])
19:37	clojurebot	nil
19:37	arrdem	,(str 1 2 3)
19:37	clojurebot	"123"
19:37	gtrak	Xe: I can't tell what that's supposed to do.
19:37	arrdem	,(str/capitalize "a")
19:37	clojurebot	"A"
19:37	rasmusto	,(str 5)
19:37	clojurebot	"5"
19:37	Xe	gtrak: import the functions in constellation.atheme
19:37	gtrak	your require looks fine but weird.
19:37	Xe	well it doesn't work
19:38	gtrak	Xe: ah, you'll want to alias the ns, that's what :as is for.
19:38	justin_smith	Xe: that is not how you do unqualified import
19:38	gtrak	:refer :all will import all the symbols, if that's what you need.
19:38	justin_smith	also unqualified import is bad
19:38	Xe	justin_smith: then how am I supposed to do it?
19:38	gtrak	[constellation.atheme :refer :all]
19:38	justin_smith	which is bad
19:38	justin_smith	:P
19:39	btcNeverSleeps	technomancy: thanks
19:39	gtrak	hey, I'm just handing out guns..
19:39	gtrak	footguns
19:39	justin_smith	heh
19:39	gtrak	I need to make a lib called that..
19:40	justin_smith	it makes me imagine a foot with arms coming out (said arms having oversized biceps)
19:40	gtrak	footgun - a utility library
19:40	arrdem	gtrak: you already have knr what more do you need
19:40	gtrak	yea, exactly.
19:40	arrdem	gtrak: knr is footgun
19:41	arrdem	gtrak: thinking of which... why the hell did you build knr
19:41	gtrak	I was satisfied with building it once I successfully crashed the JVM. but ztellman's vertigo is a completion of the idea.
19:41	arrdem	gtrak: I's cute and I enjoyed reading it... but what the hell
19:41	Xe	gtrak: I see now, thanks
19:41	gtrak	arrdem: he also said the unsafe isn't much faster than bytebuffers..
19:42	arrdem	oooh boy
19:42	arrdem	part of me wants to start using both of these libraries
19:42	arrdem	and the rest of me likes not writing C
19:42	gtrak	knr doesn't actually work... I'm making a note on the githubs :-)
19:42	gtrak	it's half-completed
19:43	justin_smith	hey, half-complete knr, complete footgun, who would know the difference except for a few symbols and filenames?
19:43	amalloy	gtrak: 1/2 completed is the same as 1/5 completed, actually
19:43	arrdem	vertigo is evil. I love it...
19:43	arrdem	amalloy: quiet you
19:43	justin_smith	lol
19:43	jwm	is it safe to do a for on a nil object?
19:43	justin_smith	,(for [a nil] a)
19:43	clojurebot	()
19:44	gtrak	amalloy: I think I'm missing something subtle there :-)
19:44	gtrak	or is it 80/20?
19:44	arrdem	also gtrak. meajure is now a thing. you're entirely to blame for the name.
19:44	gtrak	hehe
19:44	amalloy	gtrak: no, i was referring to my recent clojurebot hack
19:44	justin_smith	gtrak: search up for ,(= 5 2)
19:44	arrdem	,(= 5 2)
19:44	clojurebot	false
19:44	arrdem	good. clojurebot is no longer horked
19:44	rasmusto	,(range 6)
19:44	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
19:44	rasmusto	where's 5????
19:45	TEttinger	rasmusto: ##(range 6)
19:45	lazybot	⇒ (0 1 2 3 4 5)
19:45	justin_smith	,5
19:45	clojurebot	5
19:45	rasmusto	:)
19:45	TEttinger	one of the bots trims output
19:45	justin_smith	we were just kind of worried about 5 and hoping 5 was OK
19:45	rasmusto	TEttinger: gotcha, was making a reference to ,(= (dec 5) 1) earlier
19:45	TEttinger	heh wha
19:46	justin_smith	probably the best clojure wat I have seen so far
19:47	amalloy	i figured out how i broke clojurebot the second time
19:47	justinholguin	,(= (dec 5) 1)
19:47	clojurebot	false
19:47	justinholguin	phew
19:47	amalloy	i was trying to set 5 back to 5, but instead i set 2 to 5. so looking up the third item in an array caused you to look up the sixth item instead. thus all the ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException problems
19:47	gtrak	how'd you do that in the first place? I didn't see it in the scroll-up
19:47	TEttinger	,(def 5 4)
19:47	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: First argument to def must be a Symbol, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
19:48	justin_smith	another good name for an intentionaly messed up lib would be angkor (named for the world's biggest Wat)
19:48	amalloy	gtrak: it's not hard. (let [field (nth (.getDeclaredFields Long) 3)] (.setAccessible field true) (.set field 5 2))
19:48	justin_smith	gtrak: amalloy pasted it, by setting some properties of Long I think
19:48	justinholguin	(inc justin_smith)
19:48	lazybot	⇒ 34
19:48	justin_smith	oh, there it is again
19:48	gtrak	ah, ye old integer cache
19:49	justin_smith	probably will call for some new sandbox rules
19:49	TEttinger	(let [field (nth (.getDeclaredFields Long) 3)] (.setAccessible field true) (.set field (rand-int 100) 101))
19:49	TEttinger	,(let [field (nth (.getDeclaredFields Long) 3)] (.setAccessible field true) (.set field (rand-int 100) 101))
19:49	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Can not set final long field java.lang.Long.value to java.lang.Integer>
19:49	TEttinger	aw
19:49	rasmusto	justin_smith: glad someone else shares my taste for puns
19:49	amalloy	iit turns out you have to do a bit more work to set it back
19:50	amalloy	(let [five (long (int (+ (int 1) (int 4)))), field (nth (.getDeclaredFields Long) 3)] (.setAccessible field true) (.set field five (int (+ (int 1) (int 4))))) ;; actually worked to recover my repl
19:50	rasmusto	amalloy: is this idiomatic code?
19:50	rasmusto	er, does it at least show how to use java interop properly?
19:51	TEttinger	there's nothing proper here
19:51	arrdem	rasmusto: do you see that crowbar? do you see it?
19:51	arrdem	rasmusto: that's almost as [good\|bad] as the reader macros with crowbars hack
19:51	amalloy	sure, just like carrying a chainsaw with you at all times is the idiomatic way to get into doors you really shouldn't be getting into
19:51	gtrak	arrdem: I also take credit for the name 'reagent'
19:52	rasmusto	hrm, trying to grok the long/int thing
19:52	hiredman	http://bldgblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/nakatomi-space.html
19:55	TEttinger	,(count (range 100))
19:55	clojurebot	94
19:55	arrdem	hiredman: interesting...
19:56	rasmusto	,(apply str (range 100))
19:56	clojurebot	"0123456789101112131415161718192021222324252627282930313233343536373839404142434445464748495051525354555657585960616263646566676869707172737475767778798081828384858687888990919293949596979899"
19:56	TEttinger	aww someone fixed it
19:56	jwm	hehe took my 8 hours to write this function today in a functional manner
19:56	jwm	I so suck
19:56	justin_smith	,(count (range 100))
19:56	clojurebot	100
19:56	jwm	:)
19:56	justin_smith	jwm: maybe you are learning
19:57	jwm	I am
19:57	jwm	I only used one for in it
19:57	jwm	got rid of ifs, another for
19:57	rasmusto	ifs and for are functional
19:57	amalloy	jwm: 'for is great
19:58	jwm	map is nicer I think
19:58	gtrak	for is way better
19:58	arrdem	for does really badly in -> tho...
19:58	jwm	I still use for but I got rid of like 7-8 lines of code
19:58	amalloy	it's context-dependent
19:58	justinholguin	Yeah, in the functional hierarchy I think if is fairly low
19:59	jwm	thank god let takes multiple bindings :)
19:59	rasmusto	jwm: for is cool when you need to unroll nesting
19:59	justin_smith	and also the _ idiom, if you need to sneak a side effect in
19:59	justinholguin	'for is great if you can't replace it with map or filter
20:00	amalloy	arrdem: i don't find that piling together great chains of ->> or -> makes anybody's code more readable. the fact that for isn't easy to fit into such a pipeline is perhaps a reminder that those pipelines aren't an end in themselves
20:00	jwm	I was wondering what _ did
20:00	rasmusto	jwm: ##(let [_ 1] (inc _))
20:00	lazybot	⇒ 2
20:00	rasmusto	its just a normal symbol
20:00	jwm	ahh figured it was
20:01	jwm	I used it for underscore in nodejs :)
20:01	arrdem	_ is just a symbol used for "I don't care about this value"
20:01	jwm	until I realized one of the functions was blasted by an internal usage in nodejs so I renamed it __
20:01	arrdem	I've seen (let [[a _ b _ c & rest] seq] ..) before..
20:01	rasmusto	,(let [$_ 1] (inc $_))
20:01	clojurebot	2
20:01	amalloy	speaking of which, i was surprised to discover that haskell actually doesn't treat _ as an ordinary symbol. it's only valid in a pattern-matching context, not a value context, so this fails: let _ = 1 in _
20:02	arrdem	weird.
20:02	jwm	:v (triml (apply str (map (partial second) (filter #(= (first %) "Vehicle Name") parted))))
20:02	jwm	you guys think you could make that shorter
20:02	amalloy	(partial second) => second
20:03	jwm	yeah that would be one thing :)
20:03	jwm	no, doesnt work
20:03	hiredman	(for [[k v] parted :when (= k "Vehicle Name"))] (str v))
20:03	amalloy	yeah. that
20:04	jwm	nice
20:04	amalloy	see how nice 'for is?
20:04	justin_smith	#(= (first %) "Vehicle Name") is (fn [[n]] (= n "Vehicle Name"))
20:04	justin_smith	the later is a little nicer I think
20:04	amalloy	justin_smith: i don't like the second one much at all
20:04	amalloy	the first is fine, or i'd write (comp #{"Vehicle Name"} first)
20:04	jwm	I just didnt want to use regex
20:04	jwm	probably could do my entire program in one regex statement
20:07	amalloy	there are two things i don't like about (fn [[n]] (= n "Vehicle Name")). (1) it implies that there's only one item in the vector you're destructuring. obviously it doesn't prove that, but reading that code that would be my first guess. (2) it makes you pick a name for the first item in the tuple. that's fine, except that you picked a useless name like n, which suggests you'd rather not name it
20:08	justin_smith	fair points
20:09	jwm	well the top of the code is 4 lines
20:09	jwm	(for [msg (mailspool :reports)]
20:09	jwm	(when (.startsWith (msg :subject) "MCO Alert")
20:10	jwm	(let [content (string/split-lines (.getContent (msg :message)))
20:10	jwm	parted (map #(split % #":") content)]
20:10	rasmusto	~refheap
20:10	clojurebot	https://www.refheap.com/
20:10	jwm	hehe, sorry
20:10	rasmusto	<3
20:10	jwm	I figured 4 lines was below the barrier for that :)
20:11	rasmusto	no, that's fine, just figured it'd be easier to paste the whole thing (and give readers some context or sample output)
20:11	justin_smith	it's polite to at least attempt to make it a one liner - we know how to make a four liner out of that if we are interested
20:12	justin_smith	also, you could probably turn the when block into a :when in the for bindings?
20:14	jwm	well, I am just doing this for chatting purposes.. I know it'll probably be another few months before I get decent at clojure
20:14	jwm	probably a stupid idea to switch languages for a 2 week deadline on a big project
20:14	jwm	haha
20:15	jwm	you guys like the idea of using yyyymmdd dates for keys?
20:15	jwm	its temporary storage anyway
20:16	justin_smith	,(java.util.Date.) why not use this format?
20:16	clojurebot	#inst "2014-04-22T00:12:43.774-00:00"
20:16	justin_smith	it's what clojure already uses after all
20:20	jwm	yyyymmdd is the smallest/largest you can store a unique date in an int
20:20	jwm	without time of course
20:20	rasmusto	famous last words
20:20	jwm	its just habit
20:20	dbasch	I know all of you are desperate to base58encode / decode Bitcoin stuff. https://github.com/dbasch/base58/
20:22	n_b	Why is a star required before the exception identifier in the following code (where the future throws an exception)? I've never seen it in Clojure code before and it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the Java interop or reader sections: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9325492/why-does-clojure-wrap-checked-exceptions-with-unchecked-exceptions
20:22	n_b	Oh, never mind. I see now. *e at the REPL refers to the last exception, right?
20:22	justin_smith	yeah, * is not special, it is just part of certain names by convention
20:23	justin_smith	see also 1, 2, etc.
20:23	justin_smith	,*1
20:23	clojurebot	#<Unbound Unbound: #'clojure.core/*1>
20:23	justin_smith	erm...
20:23	dbasch	,*e
20:23	clojurebot	#<Unbound Unbound: #'clojure.core/*e>
20:23	dbasch	anyway, type *e into your repl
20:23	justin_smith	,*1
20:23	clojurebot	#<Unbound Unbound: #'clojure.core/*1>
20:23	justin_smith	yeah
20:24	coventry	,(throw (Exception. "Does this work?"))
20:24	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: Does this work?>
20:24	coventry	,*e
20:24	clojurebot	#<Unbound Unbound: #'clojure.core/*e>
20:24	justin_smith	I think clojurebot does not handle *{e,1,2,...} normally
20:24	justin_smith	,(pst)
20:24	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var$Unbound cannot be cast to java.lang.Throwable>
20:25	justin_smith	,(pst)
20:25	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var$Unbound cannot be cast to java.lang.Throwable>
20:25	n_b	Yup, had a true facepalm moment when I clicked through to make sure it was the right link and realised it was all done at the REPL
20:26	n_b	after I had hit enter of course – I suppose there's an adage on how asking the question to yourself can avoid you bothering IRC floating around bash.org somewhere
20:26	justin_smith	see also rubber duck debugging
20:27	justin_smith	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging
20:28	amalloy	justin_smith: well, he handles them semi-normally. it's just that those things are set! thread-locally, and he evaluates in a fresh dynamic context each time, i think
20:28	justin_smith	ahh
20:28	amalloy	unlike in a repl, where you do everything inside the same top-level binding form
20:29	justin_smith	,(do 22 *1)
20:29	clojurebot	#<Unbound Unbound: #'clojure.core/*1>
20:29	justin_smith	oh that wouldn't work anyway, never mind
20:29	amalloy	,(do (set! 1 22) 1)
20:29	clojurebot	#<IllegalStateException java.lang.IllegalStateException: Can't change/establish root binding of: *1 with set>
20:30	amalloy	oh, he doesn't even bind it at all. that must be something clojure.repl does
20:30	justin_smith	in my repl: user> `1 => clojure.core/1
20:30	justin_smith	,`*1 actually
20:30	clojurebot	clojure.core/*1
20:31	amalloy	uh huh...
20:31	justin_smith	hmm
20:31	amalloy	i mean, those are indeed defined in clojure.core
20:31	danlamanna	is it common to filter based on a list of functions? i.e. i have a list of items, they need to return true for every function in a list to remain in the list of items
20:31	amalloy	but the code for setting them lives in clojure.main
20:32	amalloy	(filter (every-pred f1 f2 f3) xs)
20:32	justin_smith	(doc every-pred) danlamanna
20:32	clojurebot	"([p] [p1 p2] [p1 p2 p3] [p1 p2 p3 & ps]); Takes a set of predicates and returns a function f that returns true if all of its composing predicates return a logical true value against all of its arguments, else it returns false. Note that f is short-circuiting in that it will stop execution on the first argument that triggers a logical false result against the original predicates."
20:32	justin_smith	,(doc every-pred) danlamanna
20:32	clojurebot	"([p] [p1 p2] [p1 p2 p3] [p1 p2 p3 & ps]); Takes a set of predicates and returns a function f that returns true if all of its composing predicates return a logical true value against all of its arguments, else it returns false. Note that f is short-circuiting in that it will stop execution on the first argument that triggers a logical false result against the original predicates."
20:32	justin_smith	oops
20:32	amalloy	hope you brought your galoshes, cause it's flooding in here!
20:33	amalloy	thank you folks, the puns will be here all week. no need to applaud
20:40	devn	I wonder if something like claypoole could be brought into clojure.core at some point.
20:43	amalloy	i can't imagine that making it into clojure.core
20:44	amalloy	a contrib library is more realistic, although i don't personally see the value it brings
20:45	devn	it brings value to pmap
20:45	devn	and has an unordered pmap
20:46	devn	pmap without control over threadpool size makes it less than useful in many of the situations people first set out to use it
20:47	nDuff	whew!
20:48	jwm	watch is pretty cool
20:48	justin_smith	jwm: like the unix command, or add-watch?
20:48	coventry	nduff: What happens?
20:51	amalloy	devn: for sure, pmap is pretty useless. but i don't think the answer is a version of pmap with purportedly-better defaults, it's to understand what's going on
20:51	nDuff	coventry, a race condition wherein the last element fed into a channel going through a mix can be lost when the function doing the writes, on exit, calls close! on the mix's output channel --- which surprises me since all channels involved are unbuffered, so I'd expect the writes to block.
20:52	nDuff	Ohh. Now that I'm explaining it, I see what's going on...
20:52	justin_smith	(inc rubberduck)
20:52	lazybot	⇒ 1
20:53	nDuff	...there's actually some computation going on in the pipeline between input channel and the mix, and that's where the relevant behavior is coming from.
20:53	nDuff	...question now is how to fix it, while still closing my output channel on completion.
20:54	nDuff	If a mix could be configured to close its output channel after all input channels were unmixed, that would solve the problem nicely. :)
20:57	nDuff	(hmm; strikes me as a reasonably straightforward patch...)
21:00	haole	how do I change Clojure's classpath? in my environment it seems to be ignoring the -cp argument passed to Java
21:00	haole	I've asked it to print the classpath with the following snippet: (println (seq (.getURLs (java.lang.ClassLoader/getSystemClassLoader))))
21:00	gfredericks	haole: how are you starting clojure?
21:01	haole	but I get only a single dir there, which is clojure's .jar dir
21:01	haole	gfredericks: java -cp /my/classpath/dir -jar clojure.jar <myprog.clj>
21:01	gfredericks	haole: I think -jar precludes -cp
21:01	amalloy	gfredericks: right
21:01	gfredericks	try java -cp /my/classpath/dir:clojure.jar clojure.main <myprog.clj>
21:02	amalloy	haole: lein is way better at starting clojure than you are, or i am. it's easier, even for projects that don't need exciting dependencies managed
21:02	jwm	justin_smith: add-watch
21:02	jwm	I added a watch to my main ref a few days ago
21:02	jwm	still running strong :)
21:02	gfredericks	clojurebot: leiningen is better at starting clojure than amalloy is
21:02	clojurebot	Ok.
21:03	haole	amalloy: lein seems nice indeed but I'll have to collaborate with vanilla Java devs so I'm starting with Maven
21:03	haole	will probably migrate to lein as soon as I get all the pieces together
21:03	amalloy	well, note that lein cooperates with maven. it fetches deps from ordinary maven repos, and so on
21:03	gfredericks	I support haole's desire to know wtf is going on
21:04	haole	gfredericks: heh yeah
21:04	justin_smith	and creates artifacts maven can use and find etc.
21:04	amalloy	clojurebot: amalloy \|can\| probably pass the turing test
21:04	haole	gfredericks: I've tried the following command without success: java -cp "/home/user/.m2/repository:/home/user/sources/clojure:clojure.jar" clojure.main tutorial.clj
21:04	clojurebot	c'est bon!
21:04	haole	I it complains that it can't find clojure.main
21:04	amalloy	haole: putting .m2/repo in your classpath isn't going to help - you need individual jars on the path
21:05	haole	ouch
21:05	amalloy	give the full path for clojure.jar, and you'll find it
21:05	haole	yeah, it worked now... I guess this is one of the reasons lein exists
21:07	haole	maven is pretty nice too! I've been able to put a lot of really dumb programmers to help me with some project in like 5 minutes lol
21:07	haole	with a private repo and easy IDE integration
21:08	gfredericks	I don't know if I've ever had the thought "I could get this project done in time if only I had a lot of really dumb programmers"
21:08	technomancy	gfredericks: maybe it's time to try a new tactic
21:08	justin_smith	gfredericks: spoken like someone with a limited supply of monkeys
21:09	coventry	haole: Curious what sort of application you're developing.
21:10	haole	gfredericks: the idea is to get them to not be so dumb in the future... maybe dumb is a strong word... I meant beginners :)
21:10	haole	coventry: artificial intelligence
21:10	haole	hence lisp :)
21:10	amalloy	justin_smith: i read a story a little while ago about someone who actually gave typewriters to a bunch of monkeys
21:10	coventry	hilarious!
21:11	gfredericks	haole: very good; I'm a big user of dysphemisms myself
21:11	justin_smith	amalloy: that actually sounds interesting, I am sure it at least led to some good photos
21:11	gfredericks	amalloy: was this some popular science gimmick?
21:11	amalloy	mostly they got four pages of "fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff", and then a lot of monkey urine, followed by smashed typewriters
21:12	gfredericks	I wonder if the most likely monkey-shakespeare scenario involves the keys accidentally getting pressed while the monkey smashes the typewriter
21:12	amalloy	http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/may/09/science.arts
21:12	bbloom	amalloy: 6 monkeys is a long long way away from infinite
21:13	bbloom	amalloy: what did they expect?
21:13	amalloy	bbloom: well, given an infinite amount of time 6 is fine
21:14	gfredericks	http://bottledchicken.blogspot.com/2008/07/scientific-discoveries.html
21:14	amalloy	gfredericks: wait what is the deal with the links on that page?
21:15	amalloy	is this some weird joke?
21:15	coventry	haole: Are your collaborators are basically entering a lot of domain-specific knowledge, or something like that?
21:15	gfredericks	amalloy: this was me six years ago
21:15	gfredericks	amalloy: so...yes?
21:16	amalloy	humor is ever inexplicable
21:16	gfredericks	amalloy: I'd forgotten all about the links; mostly I just remember "The MacBeth Exception" being rather catchy
21:24	amalloy	it's always exciting for me when i forget that `cat *.csv > combined.csv` doesn't do what i want
21:25	dbasch	amalloy: what did you expect?
21:26	amalloy	dbasch: to concat together the N csv files currently in a directory together
21:27	bbloom	headers get in the way? :-/
21:27	ravals	Hello - I’m having trouble using clojure.contrib/mock. I’m trying to mock out a function call use expect, line 11 here: https://gist.github.com/sidraval/11162258 — I’m getting a “Can't dynamically bind non-dynamic var: gol-clojure.core/sum-excluding-middle” error when I run lein test. Would love some help :)
21:27	amalloy	bbloom: no, try it and see! this command, run in a directory with 1 or more nonempty CSV files, will consume all available disk
21:28	amalloy	i had actually written `(for f in *.csv; do tail -n+2 $f; done) > combined.csv`, because i'm clever and thought about headers already
21:28	bbloom	amalloy: you're saying the cat resolves the * after the > creates it?
21:28	bbloom	amalloy: i'm skeptical....
21:28	amalloy	maybe the simpler version with cat doesn't break. it does do something weird, as i recall
21:29	danlamanna	can i inspect the result of a function that returns a function? by inspect i mean "view source"
21:29	amalloy	but if you use this subshell/for thing, you definitely cat a file into itself
21:29	bbloom	amalloy: yeah that's b/c the pipe is evaluated before the subshell call
21:29	bbloom	it's not an issue w/o a subshell
21:29	amalloy	yeah
21:30	amalloy	i take it back, everyone, unix is still smarter than me
21:31	bbloom	amalloy: why did you do the subshell thing at all?
21:31	amalloy	bbloom: what if you create a file foo.txt containing foo, and then run `cat foo.txt>foo.txt"? on linux that complains, but i vaguely recall that maybe bsd/osx let you do it?
21:31	coventry	danlamanna: Not really. E.g., if you want to know exactly what (partial myfn) is doing, you have to go look at the source for partial and piece it together from that.
21:31	bbloom	why not just put the > on the tail line?
21:31	bbloom	use >>
21:32	bbloom	amalloy: i get "file exists" complaint
21:32	dbasch	just do (for f in *.csv; do tail -n+2 $f; done) > foo ; mv foo combined.csv
21:32	bbloom	but that's a shell config if i recall
21:32	bbloom	noclobber
21:32	amalloy	bbloom: >> would have been fine, but it felt more natural to build one stream with all the output rather than N streams with some of it
21:33	amalloy	still thinking functionally, even in the shell
21:33	bbloom	amalloy: well that's your mistake right there
21:33	bbloom	you expected your shell to be natural
21:33	bbloom	tisk tisk
21:36	dbasch	I must be the only person working on cryptocurrency stuff in Clojure, there’s almost no bitcoin code out there
21:36	coventry	There was someone talking about it here a few months ago. I think they wanted to make a BTC client.
21:38	coventry	dobry-den.
21:39	dbasch	found it: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2013-11-08.html
21:41	arrdem	dbasch: why do anything in Clojure when you can just use bitcoin-rpc
21:41	arrdem	dbasch: or dogecoin rpc, or shitcoin rpc
21:41	dbasch	arrdem: I built my site/app in Clojure
21:42	dbasch	arrdem: the actual communication with the daemon was the trivial part, building the rest of the application is the work
21:42	arrdem	dbasch: I hear you there..
21:42	dbasch	arrdem: here it’s what I have so far https://cointipping.com
21:49	danlamanna	trying to write a function which returns a function to be passed to filter, produces 0 results though, perhaps i'm doing it wrong? https://gist.github.com/11162744
21:50	bbloom	,(= "-" \-)
21:50	clojurebot	false
21:50	bbloom	,(class "-")
21:50	clojurebot	java.lang.String
21:50	bbloom	,(class \-)
21:50	clojurebot	java.lang.Character
21:50	bbloom	danlamanna: ^^
21:51	bbloom	danlamanna: also: ##(doc int)
21:51	lazybot	⇒ "([x]); Coerce to int"
21:51	bbloom	danlamanna: and ##(doc alength)
21:51	lazybot	⇒ "([array]); Returns the length of the Java array. Works on arrays of all types."
21:52	danlamanna	bbloom: i see where i messed up with = and int, where would alength come into play?
21:52	bbloom	danlamanna: instead of .length
21:52	danlamanna	bbloom: oh .length is java io file .length
21:52	danlamanna	bbloom: as in, the length of the File object in bytes
21:53	bbloom	,(map #(get {\- <, \+ >} (first %) =) ["+1 "2" "-3"])
21:53	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string>
21:54	bbloom	,(map #(get {\- <, \+ >} (first %) =) ["+1" "2" "-3"])
21:54	clojurebot	(#<core$_GT_ clojure.core$_GT_@54919e> #<core$_EQ_ clojure.core$_EQ_@84fa6a> #<core$_LT_ clojure.core$_LT_@1abb81e>)
21:54	bbloom	danlamanna: you can avoid repeated the majority of the code by doing something like:
21:55	bbloom	,(defn size-filter [size-str] (let [cmp (get {\- <, \+ >} (first size-str) =)] (fn [f (cmp (alength f) (int (rest size-str)))))
21:55	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
21:55	bbloom	,(defn size-filter [size-str] (let [cmp (get {\- <, \+ >} (first size-str) =)] (fn [f (cmp (alength f) (int (rest size-str))))
21:55	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
21:55	bbloom	but you get the idea
21:55	bbloom	,(Integer/parseInt "123")
21:56	clojurebot	123
21:56	bbloom	,(Integer/parseInt "+123")
21:56	clojurebot	#<NumberFormatException java.lang.NumberFormatException: For input string: "+123">
21:56	bbloom	whoa weird, that works locally
21:56	bbloom	,(Integer/parseInt "-123")
21:56	clojurebot	-123
21:56	bbloom	,(Integer/parseInt "+123")
21:56	clojurebot	#<NumberFormatException java.lang.NumberFormatException: For input string: "+123">
21:58	TEttinger	clojure's number parser has mo' powah ##(print 36rZAMBONI)
21:58	lazybot	⇒ 76829540238nil
21:59	bbloom	wat
22:00	bbloom	i guess i shouldn't be surprised that clojure's reader is too permissive
22:01	arrdem	http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/615/442/089.png
22:02	beamso	angry doge
22:04	nightfly	Searching for SDL on clojars gives nothing, are there really no useful SDL/OpenGL wrappers?
22:05	TEttinger	bbloom, it is useful for stuff like ##(print 2r1111)
22:05	lazybot	⇒ 15nil
22:05	TEttinger	nightfly, sure. take a look at play-clj if you're doing idiomatic clojure game dev
22:05	bbloom	TEttinger: oh yeah, duh. i misread that as the RADIX was zamboni
22:05	bbloom	heh
22:06	bbloom	nightfly: LWJGL is mostly static methods, so it's pretty straightforward to use from clojure directly
22:06	TEttinger	indeed, play-clj I think is a nice wrapper around the java bits of LWJGL
22:07	nightfly	TEttinger bbloom awesome! ty
22:07	TEttinger	err I was mistaken
22:08	TEttinger	it's a wrapper around libgdx, which wraps lwjgl
22:08	TEttinger	so many acronyms
22:08	bbloom	so many wrappers
22:09	TEttinger	which wraps OpenGL yes
22:09	TEttinger	but play-clj is all well-documented pretty much
22:09	TEttinger	should get better now that libgdx is stable at 1.0
22:10	TEttinger	also, nightfly: #lispgames has some good tips I bet
22:21	jwm	(mailspool :reports first read-message :body second :body slurp pprint)
22:21	jwm	I love macros
22:21	jwm	hehe
22:22	Pupnik	there is also this handy play-clj video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ilUe7Re-RA
22:36	zspencer	Is there an "opposite" of get-in
22:36	zspencer	I.e. (foo :key :key :key map)
22:37	arrdem	wat?
22:37	arrdem	zspencer: clarify input and output please
22:37	zspencer	I'm doing (get-in map :key-a :key-b) to get the nested hash-maps key-b
22:37	zspencer	I want something that reverses the order of inputs
22:38	zspencer	,(get-in { :foo { :bar 5 } :foo :bar)
22:38	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
22:38	zspencer	,(get-in { :foo { :bar 5 } } :foo :bar)
22:38	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Keyword>
22:38	zspencer	,(get-in { :foo { :bar 5 } } [:foo :bar])
22:38	clojurebot	5
22:38	zspencer	sorry my syntax is horrible
22:38	zspencer	I want ,(get-from [:foo :bar] { :foo { :bar 5 } })
22:39	arrdem	why....? -> is for solving that problem
22:39	arrdem	or as->
22:39	zspencer	more for readability than anything
22:39	zspencer	It's for a test where I'm ensuring that this and only this attribute has value x
22:39	arrdem	,(defn rget-in [ks m] (get-in m ks))
22:39	clojurebot	#'sandbox/rget-in
22:39	arrdem	~next
22:40	arrdem	still ignored by bots. right.
22:40	zspencer	so nothing built in for reversing arguments?
22:40	arrdem	nope.
22:40	zspencer	k
22:40	zspencer	clojure is wide as hell. So many things I don't know exist.
22:42	zspencer	(inc arrdem)
22:42	lazybot	⇒ 24
23:13	leif-p	Hi. Any Storm users around?
23:16	beppu	https://github.com/apache/incubator-storm ?
23:17	fowlslegs	What is the easiest modification I can make to https://github.com/weavejester/crypto-random/blob/master/src/crypto/random.clj if I want to generate 512-bit strings?
23:17	arrdem	,(/ 512 8)
23:17	clojurebot	64
23:18	arrdem	fowlslegs: just kick out 64 random bytes
23:18	arrdem	fowlslegs: no library hacking required
23:20	fowlslegs	arrdem: I guess I meant to ask how I can get that into a binary string.
23:22	leif-p	beppu: yes
23:23	dbasch	fowlslegs: what do you mean by a 512-bit string?
23:25	fowlslegs	dbasch: I'm not familiar with working with binary strings/ byte arrays. I'm essentially trying to generate 512 random bits, which I want to split into 16 32-bit words.
23:26	arrdem	okay... so just generate 16 random ints from the getgo
23:26	dbasch	fowlslegs: from that library, just do (bytes 32)
23:27	fowlslegs	The only function I found was Integer/toBinaryString and that produces variable length results instead of consistently 8-bit strings
23:27	dbasch	fowlslegs: that’s 512 random bits
23:27	dbasch	btw, do you need them to be cryptographically strong?
23:30	fowlslegs	dbasch: Yes.
23:30	dbasch	fowlslegs: (partition 4 (crypto.random/bytes 32))
23:32	dbasch	fowlslegs: although, given that you’re not familiar with binary strings and need cryptographically strong bits I have to ask
23:32	dbasch	what are you really trying to do?
23:32	arrdem	dbasch: openssl implementation
23:33	fowlslegs	Evolve a compression function for a cryptographic hash function.
23:34	arrdem	wat.
23:34	dbasch	fowlslegs: are you creating your own cryptographic hash function?
23:35	fowlslegs	http://www.seg.inf.uc3m.es/papers/2008recsi2.pdf
23:37	dbasch	is that for fun, or do you have a specific application in mind?
23:39	fowlslegs	Fun. I wouldn't use a cryptographic hash I made myself.
23:41	fowlslegs	With (partition 4 (crypto.random/bytes 64)) I still have the problem of how to implement bit-xor on two of the 16 32-bit words.
23:42	fowlslegs	Wait maybe (map bit-xor (25 ...) (-112 ...)) would work.
23:43	fowlslegs	Yup.
23:44	fowlslegs	I'm a bit rusty with Clojure, I'll try to search/ remember before asking another easy question.