#clojure – 2014-01-29

2014-01-29

00:46	fowlslegs	,(= (reverse [:foo : bar :foo]) (seq [:foo : bar :foo]))
00:46	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :>
00:47	fowlslegs	I thought the type metadata didn't matter when using =, just that the values were the same.
00:54	andyf	fowlslegs: Metadata is ignored by =
00:54	fowlslegs	andyf: I thought so, but why the errors
00:55	andyf	space between : and bar
00:55	fowlslegs	,(seq [:foo :bar :foo])
00:55	clojurebot	(:foo :bar :foo)
00:55	fowlslegs	,(reverse [:foo :bar :foo])
00:55	clojurebot	(:foo :bar :foo)
00:55	fowlslegs	haha
01:04	voldyman	i can't seem to connect to sqlite db here is the code that i used http://pastie.org/8677589
01:16	tpope	devn: actually I gave up and switched to sexp.vim. much better
01:23	seancorfield	voldyman: what's in your project.clj as a dependency for SQLite and what platform are you on?
01:24	voldyman	seancorfield: on ubuntu 13.10 dependency -> org.clojure/java.jdbc org.xerial/sqlite-jdbc
01:25	seancorfield	what version?
01:25	seancorfield	you shouldn't need the :classname btw, java.jdbc can figure the right thing out from the :subprotocol
01:25	voldyman	clojure "1.5.1" jdbc "0.3.2" sqlite-jdbc "3.7.2"
01:26	seancorfield	hmm, that's the version of SQLite that java.jdbc is tested against so that should be ok
01:27	voldyman	seancorfield: know of some project where i could find some sample code?
01:28	seancorfield	sample code for what, exactly?
01:28	voldyman	using sqlite db
01:28	seancorfield	regular java.jdbc documentation should apply
01:28	seancorfield	on clojure-doc.org
01:29	seancorfield	http://clojure-doc.org/articles/ecosystem/java_jdbc/home.html
01:29	seancorfield	and the tests in java.jdbc exercise SQLite and other DBs
01:30	seancorfield	one thing you might try as a sanity check is to clone the java.jdbc repo and run: lein test
01:30	seancorfield	that will show whether the basics are working on your system
01:30	voldyman	ah, great idea
01:30	seancorfield	if that doesn't work, it might be something environmental...
01:33	seancorfield	it should say Ran 70 tests containing 445 assertions...
01:34	seancorfield	(that's what it just produced on Windows 8.1 with Java 7 for me)
01:34	voldyman	seancorfield: same and 0 failures and 0 errors
01:35	voldyman	but i don't even have postgres installed (which it checks)
01:35	seancorfield	not by default it doesn't :)
01:35	seancorfield	by default it tests apache derby, hsqldb, and sqlite
01:35	clojurebot	I don't understand.
01:36	seancorfield	so that proves that sqlite "works' so something about the way you're invoking it in the repl is the issue
01:36	seancorfield	cat paste up your project.clj somewhere?
01:38	voldyman	seancorfield: http://pastie.org/8677653
01:39	seancorfield	thx
01:40	seancorfield	i'll try that in a project locally with your repl session and see what happens
01:43	seancorfield	heh, well, the good news for you is i can repro your exact issue...
01:43	seancorfield	...so i guess my question is: gave you actually created that test table?
01:47	seancorfield	ok, the problem is that you should say: (query db ["select * from test"])
01:48	seancorfield	i'm surprised the driver dumps
01:49	seancorfield	i'll open a ticket to add better validation for the query function to check it is passed a vector of sql statement followed by optional parameters... or it packages a string up as a vector for processing
01:51	voldyman	seancorfield: thanks a lot. i tried rewriting some code in repl it it worked!!
01:55	seancorfield	for reference here's the issue i created http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/JDBC-89
01:57	sm0ke	how does one contributes to clojure, do they accept pull reqests on github?
01:58	seancorfield	read http://clojure.org/contributing
01:58	seancorfield	no pull requests, just patches attached to JIRA tickets, from folks with signed Contributor's Agreements on record with Clojure/core
02:00	sm0ke	whoa! so much work
02:00	deadghost	is it?
02:01	deadghost	from what I read, it sounds like all you need to do is sign over your soul to rich hickey
02:01	sm0ke	who sends a postal mail!
02:01	deadghost	you don't even need a goat sacrifice like other languages
02:01	sm0ke	crap and all i wanted to do was add serialization ids
02:01	seancorfield	as you can see from that page, hundreds of people have happily signed and mailed the CA...
02:02	seancorfield	you can always open a ticket on JIRA with a description of what you had in mind and let the project maintainer decide if / how to implement it :)
02:03	sm0ke	well there is already a bug which i want someone to take up http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1327
02:03	seancorfield	the legal protection of a signed CA is necessary for Clojure to be usable by companies
02:03	sm0ke	but the project maintainers have made it minor
02:09	seancorfield	sm0ke: you could always add comments to that issue explaining why you think it's more important than minor - that would likely get an explanation from Clojure/core about it
02:12	carlo_au	Is there any way to see debug info from Light Table? The InstaRepl doesn't work, the box thing in the bottom-left corner keeps spinning.
02:12	seancorfield	ok, outta here for the night
02:13	carlo_au	'lein repl' works fine on the command line
02:13	seancorfield	voldyman: thank you for finding that issue - definitely not an intuitive problem!
02:14	TEttinger	carlo_au, I have the same problem.
02:15	TEttinger	actually I've had it for more than one version...
02:15	carlo_au	TEttinger: no luck on any other platform?
02:16	carlo_au	I'm trying it on a plain Ubuntu 13.10 VM as it doesn't compile on Debian Wheezy due to some libc version issue.
02:16	TEttinger	I'm on windows 7... hm.
02:16	carlo_au	hmm
02:16	TEttinger	I thought it might have been a threading thing, since when I tried it I was doing stuff with Swing
02:17	chippie	If I want to read an environment variable, such as $HOME or $PATH, is there a core function to do this easily? Searching with "env" with find-doc I didn't spot much, so have started down the path of (clojure.java.shell/sh "/usr/bin/env") passed through a series of conversions to get a map back. This feels bad and wrong.
02:17	carlo_au	I can't evaluate (+ 1 2) in the instarepl, so that's not a threading issue ;)
02:17	chippie	Have seen the environ library, but would prefer not to have to install a dependency just to read a simple environment variable.
02:18	TEttinger	well my problem was I could evaluate (+ 1 2) at an early point, but after evaling some long-running (?) code, it wouldn't do any more
02:20	TEttinger	chippie, you can call into java for this. https://github.com/niwibe/env-config/blob/master/src/env_config/environ.clj#L20
02:20	TEttinger	,(System/getenv)
02:20	seangone	chippie: (System/getenv "HOME")
02:20	clojurebot	eval service is offline
02:21	TEttinger	uh... what did I miss?
02:21	chippie	TEttinger, seangone - Ah, thanks! I was so caught up in searching for Clojure-specific solution I never even thought to look for a Java solution.
02:21	seangone	g'nite!
02:33	elarson	I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here... but is this a typical pattern (def foo {}) (def foo (assoc foo "bar" "baz")) when you want to update some hashmap?
02:34	cark	that's wrong
02:34	cark	why don't you do it right away ?
02:35	cark	well i suppose you could do that when playing in the repl
02:36	cark	but if you want to mutate foo in a program ... put the map in an atom
02:36	cark	then (swap! foo assoc "blah" "bleh")
02:37	elarson	cark: well here is my use case. I'm writing a craps game to learn clojure (not that it matters that much) so each player has a bank. when that person wins a bet, they get their bank updated. the bank is just a hashmap with player -> total. so I want to update the total
02:38	cark	well
02:38	cark	there are several ways to do that, without using any mutable state
02:38	elarson	I'm totally open to different ways of thinking about it, so just saying that is a bad idea is helpful ;)
02:38	cark	but it's quite usual to use an atom to hold the full state of the game
02:39	cark	a single atom for the full state should suffice
02:40	cark	(def game-state (atom {:hands {"player1" [hand here] "player2" []}}))
02:40	mkuitune	hmm, if one would like to store the entire state history I suppose you could store those map references to a list
02:40	mkuitune	then you could have a history browser functionality "for free"
02:41	cark	could do that, with shared structure, clojure will do that in the most efficent way possible
02:41	cark	kinda
02:41	cark	=)
02:41	mkuitune	If I've understood the current persistent map correctly once the map grows large enough most of the reference cells remain same between versions
02:41	mkuitune	?
02:42	cark	yes
02:42	mkuitune	Is it still using bagwells hash array mapped tries or something else?
02:42	cark	not sure about the bagwells part, but for the rest that sounds correct
02:43	elarson	mkuitune, cark: that sounds like doing {"elarson": [14 10 26]} and using sum to get the total
02:44	elarson	is that what you guys meant?
02:44	mkuitune	Is this still the container used for the map implementation? http://lampwww.epfl.ch/papers/idealhashtrees.pdf
02:45	cark	elarson: not at all ! but do not worry about this
02:46	cark	mkuitune: looks like it at first glance
02:46	mkuitune	elarson: no i meant storing the heads of the maps like [map1 map2 map3] ... but your version is probably more legible :)
02:46	cark	elarson: just know that once you've created a var with def, it should remain as is
02:46	cark	if you want to mutate it, make it hold an atom
02:47	cark	and mutate the atom contents
02:47	elarson	cark: ok, so I gather the atom is meant to mutable
02:47	cark	elarson: yes
02:48	cark	(let [a (atom 1)] (swap! a inc) @a)
02:48	cark	,(let [a (atom 1)] (swap! a inc) @a)
02:48	clojurebot	2
02:48	elarson	ah and the @a dereferences the atom?
02:48	cark	right
02:49	elarson	ah ok
02:49	akurilin	bbloom: ping.
02:49	cark	,@(atom 2)
02:49	clojurebot	2
02:49	cark	,(deref (atom 2))
02:49	clojurebot	2
02:49	ssafejava	elarson: have you seen rhickey's talk on clojure datastructures & concurrency? it's absolutely worth the 45min, blew my mind
02:49	elarson	that must have been what rich hickey meant in this talk when he mentioned reference in haskell/clojure http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy
02:50	elarson	ssafejava: I think I have a while back, but I'd love to watch it again. did you have a link offhand?
02:50	ssafejava	yeah one sec, I just sent it to a friend yest
02:51	ssafejava	elarson: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Value-Identity-State-Rich-Hickey
02:51	elarson	(inc ssafejava)
02:51	lazybot	⇒ 1
02:51	ssafejava	ahaha
02:51	elarson	ssafejava: thanks :)
02:52	ssafejava	new to the channel, btw - is there a guide to what any of the bots do?
02:52	cark	i think the source code is on github, no idea where
02:53	ssafejava	I guess, more specifically, what's the difference between clojurebot & lazybot?
02:53	cark	clojurebot is the father
02:53	cark	https://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot
02:54	ssafejava	clojurebot: how much do you know?
02:54	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
02:59	ddellacosta	,(+ 1 2)
02:59	clojurebot	3
02:59	ddellacosta	&(map + [1 2 3])
02:59	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3)
03:00	ddellacosta	whoops
03:00	ddellacosta	&(map inc [1 2 3])
03:00	lazybot	⇒ (2 3 4)
03:00	ddellacosta	ssafejava: https://github.com/flatland/lazybot
03:13	elarson	atoms are super cool
03:13	elarson	the (swap! some-atom (fn [n])) pattern is so great
03:14	hhenkel	Hi all, trying to fetch some info from a server and recieving an error: https://www.refheap.com/29252
03:15	hhenkel	The errror occurs imho when the query-params are not used.
03:16	ssafejava	ddellacosta: thanks, nice link. clojurebot appears to have no docs besides its own source, but there's some fun stuff in there
03:18	quizdr	elarson and very useful, too. for instance, we are all, every one of us, made of atoms.
03:18	ssafejava	they are an elegant solution to existence
03:19	quizdr	^ what he said
03:32	ddellacosta	If I spit a Clojure data structure out to a file, with no attempt at preprocessing whatsoever, is the resultant format EDN?
03:34	llasram	ddellacosta: As long as you don't have any e.g. random Java objects in the mix, then generally yes
03:37	ddellacosta	llasram: okay, thank you. I guess the proper way to do this, generally, would be to ensure that all Java objects were stripped out or otherwise converted to something that could be read by Clojure's reader, huh?
03:38	llasram	ddellacosta: You can define `print-method` and add tagged literal form readers for anything which isn't already readable
03:38	llasram	But yeah -- in general you just have to know what's in your data
03:38	llasram	s,for anything,for any specific things,
03:38	ddellacosta	llasram: gotcha, thanks. I'll have to read up on this, been lazy about the details.
04:32	d11wtq	WARNING: key already refers to: #'clojure.core/key in namespace: workkit.redis.jobs, being replaced by: #'workkit.redis.jobs/key
04:32	d11wtq	Is there a way to suppress that warning, besides changing the function name?
04:33	llasram	d11wtq: You can fix the underlying problem with a `:refer-clojure` form in your `ns` form
04:34	llasram	Or import the other namespace with an `:as` prefix alias instead of slurping it in
04:34	llasram	Usually you do the latter, and save the former for when writing namespaces which define functions w/ the same names as clojure.core functions
04:35	d11wtq	llasram: Yeah, so I've defined a ns that has a key function, which also exists in clojure.core. I'll look at refer-clojure, thanks!
04:35	llasram	Cool beans
04:36	d11wtq	Ah yes, (:refer-clojure :exclude [key])
04:37	hhenkel	Anyone around who can help me out with http-kit ?
04:37	d11wtq	hhenkel: Maybe. What's the question?
04:37	hhenkel	d11wtq: https://www.refheap.com/29252
04:37	hhenkel	Seems like I got a params problem when accessing the page.
04:38	d11wtq	hhenkel: If you perform the get without your callback, do you get the same error?
04:39	d11wtq	hhenkel: Just looks like an http-kit issue more than anything in your code.
04:39	hhenkel	d11wtq: I'll give it a try.
04:41	d11wtq	hhenkel: Also curious what JDK version you're using, and if this happens for all URLs.
04:42	hhenkel	d11wtq: Yes, still seeing the error when I use something like (def resp (client/get url options))
04:43	hhenkel	d11wtq: OpenJDK "1.7.0_45", the error is "normal" as long as the param "ignoreErrors=true"
04:44	hhenkel	is not used within the url
04:44	hhenkel	d11wtq: The error is kind of an feature of "jolokia" and you can get rid of it with this option
04:44	noncom	hi! what is way to close aleph's tcp client properly?
04:45	d11wtq	hhenkel: Ah I see. I'm not sure, sorry :-)
04:47	hhenkel	d11wtq: No prob, would you expect it to work in the way I use it? I tried to follow: http://http-kit.org/client.html
04:50	d11wtq	hhenkel: Ah, sorry now I'm looking at your :query-params, no, I wouldn't ;)
04:51	d11wtq	hhenkel: It's supposed to be a map of key-value pairs. So you'd want: {"ignoreErrors" true}
04:51	d11wtq	I'm not sure what the "none" is. How would that look in the URL?
04:54	hhenkel	d11wtq: I updated https://www.refheap.com/29252 with the opts.
04:54	d11wtq	hhenkel: If your query string is ?ignoreErrors=true&none, I think you need {"ignoreErrors" "true", "none" ""}
04:55	hhenkel	d11wtq: okay, I'll try
04:56	hhenkel	d11wtq: That looks much better! Thanks!
04:57	d11wtq	hhenkel: No dramas, apologies for the initial confusion :P
05:03	noncom	what is the easiest way to navigate the xml element emitted by clojure.data.xml/parse ?
05:03	noncom	it is in defrecords now, but on each level I have to descend into the :content node
05:13	luxbock	when I do C-x C-e to evaluate a form in a file, I get a complaint that the namespace hasn't been defined yet (since I haven't evaluated the ns-form)
05:14	luxbock	how can evaluate the form in the user namespace?
05:14	luxbock	or rather evaluate it in whatever ns the nrepl buffer is set to at the moment
05:18	tim_	anyone know if congomongo uses connection pooling?
05:20	tim_	not to worry, just found the info.
05:29	noncom	anyone familiar with aleph here?
05:29	ucb	noncom: somewhat; what's up?
05:29	noncom	ucb: do you know what'd the proper way to close a tcp client?
05:30	ucb	if it's like the server, then it's a future
05:30	ucb	sorry; never used the client itself.
05:30	noncom	idk.. and how would you deal with a future that way?
05:30	noncom	i just need to release the port
05:31	ucb	let me take a look one sec.
05:37	ucb	noncom: hrm; I can't figure it out. Normally with aleph servers you @(server) to stop serving requests. I can't find any similar mechanism for clients though.
05:39	noncom	ucb: well, ok, thanks anyway! :)
05:40	ucb	no worries :)
05:40	noncom	looks like it all goes back up to netty java classes..
05:40	ucb	let me know if you figure it out; I'm curious now.
05:40	ucb	yeah, that's as much as I could gather
05:46	d11wtq	What would be a tyical naming convention for something like to-string/from-string? Those names seem too much like method names bound to something with context.
05:46	d11wtq	read-string/write-string?
05:47	ucb	sounds reasonable
05:48	d11wtq	ucb: Except for the fact read-string is a core function that reads in lisp. I suppose that's fine though :)
05:48	llasram	d11wtq: Typically you'd just piggy-back on the reader
05:48	llasram	So you'd define `print-method` to get a `read`able printed representation of your object
05:49	d11wtq	llasram: Yeah, I'm parsing and dumping json payloads, but don't want to reveal that they are just json.
05:49	llasram	Huh
05:49	d11wtq	llasram: I mean, I don't want to reveal the implementation to the end user.
05:49	llasram	parse/unparase?
05:50	d11wtq	llasram: unparse sounds odd. Parse/dump? :)
05:50	d11wtq	Haha, naming things!
05:50	llasram	Next let's do cache coherency
05:50	d11wtq	Hehehe!
05:50	d11wtq	http://classnamer.com/
05:53	noncom	i heard arrows are recommended too, like ->string
05:54	d11wtq	noncom: Yeah, I've seen that for converting between data types. I think the semantics of that are more around casting though.
05:54	llasram	noncom: Yeah, but usually that would just be spelled `str` :-)
05:54	noncom	haha :)
05:54	llasram	This seems to be something a bit more specialized
05:55	d11wtq	parse-str/dump-str
05:55	d11wtq	I particularly like dump-str. Say it fast :_
05:55	d11wtq	:)
05:55	d11wtq	(dump-str :fire)
06:01	llasram	heh
06:11	hhenkel	d11wtq: still around?
06:12	hhenkel	I tried to modify some example code of http-kit but I'm currently failing to return an object from my code: https://www.refheap.com/29307
06:15	hhenkel	I'm also unsure what this exactely does: (let [{:keys [status headers body error] :as resp} @(client/get url options)
06:16	hhenkel	It fetches a object and derefences it...so far so good...
06:16	d11wtq	hhenkel: What output is your code producing? I've never checked the error field before, but your code looks ok.
06:16	hhenkel	d11wtq: The code is okay...
06:17	d11wtq	hhenkel: The {:keys [x y z]} thing is Clojure destructuring syntax. It's like pattern matching in other languages and lets you extract elements from complex data structures.
06:17	hhenkel	d11wtq: But if I try to work with the returned stuff I fail
06:17	d11wtq	http://clojure.org/special_forms#Special Forms--Binding Forms (Destructuring)
06:17	hhenkel	d11wtq: jolokia-client.core=> (get-data url options) resuluts in nil
06:18	d11wtq	hhenkel: Do you need an else clause in your callback?
06:18	d11wtq	(if error (...) resp)
06:19	d11wtq	hhenkel: Because otherwise your callback always returns nil.
06:19	d11wtq	hhenkel: If you don't need the callback, don't pass one. http-kit will return a map to you anyway.
06:19	hhenkel	d11wtq: I tried that...then I get a strange error.
06:20	hhenkel	hmm ,with call back your referring to the "if error" ?
06:21	d11wtq	hhenkel: Yes
06:21	d11wtq	hhenkel: Your callback is used as a filter on the response, before it is returned from client/get
06:21	d11wtq	And your callback returns nil.
06:22	hhenkel	d11wtq: I updated what I tried: https://www.refheap.com/29307
06:22	d11wtq	hhenkel: Not (resp), just resp
06:23	d11wtq	(resp) will try and call it as a function.
06:24	hhenkel	d11wtq: You're right....thanks again... :)
06:24	d11wtq	hhenkel: No worries. You should definitely learning how the destructuring syntax works too, as that is used all over in Clojure :)
06:24	d11wtq	s/learning/learn/
06:26	d11wtq	hhenkel: here's an article that seems to explain it quite well http://java.dzone.com/articles/clojure-destructuring
06:27	hhenkel	d11wtq: I will try...started with clojure in September, then was forced to pause for four months and now warming up again... ;)
06:34	d11wtq	hhenkel: Good luck :)
06:42	katox	is (into [] lazy-seq) much faster than (vec lazy-seq) ?
06:47	logic_prog	https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8686317 <-- is there some builtin function for changing "fucked up names" to readable names? i.e. util.chan$chan_open_QMARK_ ==> util.chan/chan-open?
06:48	llasram	logic_prog: I believe the mangling is not generally reversible
06:48	logic_prog	llasram: it's not a 1-1 mapping? :-)
06:48	llasram	,(munge "cool-beans_fun_times")
06:48	clojurebot	"cool_beans_fun_times"
06:49	llasram	logic_prog: Correct
06:49	logic_prog	,(munge "a-b a_b")
06:49	clojurebot	"a_b a_b"
06:49	logic_prog	hmm, does "a-b" and "a_b" get mapped to the same var ?
06:51	llasram	~tias
06:51	clojurebot	Try it and see! You'll get results faster than asking someone in #clojure to evaluate it for you, and you'll get that warm, fuzzy feeling of self-reliance.
06:51	llasram	:-)
06:51	logic_prog	,(munge "a?")
06:51	clojurebot	"a_QMARK_"
06:51	logic_prog	(,munge "a_QMARK_")
06:52	logic_prog	,(let [a-b 20] (println a_b))
06:52	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: a_b in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
06:52	Ember-	http://i.imgur.com/WGDg5KB.jpg
06:52	logic_prog	so clearly either a-b is not mapping to a_b or a_b is not mapping to a_b
06:52	logic_prog	so it seems like munge is lying
06:52	llasram	logic_prog: Well, the mangling doesn't need to happen on locals
06:52	logic_prog	,(let [] (def a-b 20) (println a_b))
06:52	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: a_b in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
06:53	logic_prog	,(let [] (def a-b 20) (def a_b 30) (println a-b a_b))
06:53	clojurebot	20 30\n
06:53	logic_prog	clearly a-b and a_b, being globals this time, are not clashing
06:53	llasram	Ah, but
06:54	llasram	Actually, the example I was going to give showed them also still not colliding :-)
06:54	llasram	Yeah, so the vars don't colide
06:54	llasram	collide
06:54	llasram	But the names of the generated classes holding the function implementations will
06:55	llasram	So you'll see freaky weirdness if you AOT compile
06:55	llasram	And have names which munge to the same thing
06:55	logic_prog	llasram: I don't understand why, but out of respect for you, I'll trust it.
06:55	llasram	This was actually a bug which got a bunch of discussion on the clojure-dev list recently
06:55	logic_prog	ah
06:55	logic_prog	tell those guys the easiest way to solve th eproblem is to make munge 1-1
06:56	logic_prog	so we can also unmunge
06:56	llasram	heh
06:57	llasram	I'll let you carry that charge :-)
06:57	llasram	Unfortunately it would be difficult to change the munging algorithm -- the ability to map namespaces to existing AOT'd class files depends on it
06:58	llasram	Would be a breaking change
06:58	pyrtsa	,(defrecord Oops [uh-oh uh_oh])
06:58	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassFormatError: Duplicate field name&signature in class file compile__stub/sandbox/Oops, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
06:58	llasram	pyrtsa: Good thinking!
06:58	pyrtsa	,(defrecord Oops [uh-oh])
06:58	clojurebot	sandbox.Oops
06:59	pyrtsa	,(.uh-oh (Oops. "!"))
06:59	clojurebot	"!"
06:59	pyrtsa	,(.uh_oh (Oops. "!"))
06:59	clojurebot	"!"
06:59	pyrtsa	There. :)
07:00	logic_prog	Alright, time to compose email. to clojure mailing list. "llasram agrees me, but wants me to carry the charge ... " :-)
07:00	llasram	heh
07:03	silasdavis	I'm using timbre for logging in a web application. Most but not all activity is triggered by an incoming request, I was thinking about adding a request uuid to all my log messages when the code path up until the logging invocation started with a request
07:03	silasdavis	I don't want to have to explicitly add this or change my existing log messages
07:03	silasdavis	can anyone suggest the best way to do this
07:03	logic_prog	llasram: dumbass question -- why can't we just hex encode all clojure names
07:03	logic_prog	llasram: it's not every efficient, but it should solve this issue
07:04	silasdavis	some kind of thread-local variable?
07:05	silasdavis	set by ring middleware
07:05	llasram	logic_prog: It is nice if a human can figure out what a name is from the mangled version, but yeah -- something akin to URL-style hex encoding of otherwise illegal characters would totally work
07:07	llasram	silasdavis: A dynamic var would provide the scope you want (thread-local, bound within the dynamic scope of the request), but I don't know enough about timbre to propose an obvious way of getting it into the log messages
07:13	silasdavis	It has middleware sitting between log messages and appenders that will do it easily I think, I'll look at a dynamic var
07:36	sobel	can someone help me understand what they're asking on http://www.4clojure.com/problem/19#prob-title ?
07:37	sobel	i get 'last' but i don't get the point of doing that one without 'last'. what approach are they trying to get me to take?
07:37	llasram	sobel: Think about how `last` might be implemented, and so implement it :-)
07:45	sobel	llasram: thx, the hardest part was eventually finding 'count' (len? length? size? google?)
07:55	llasram	Interesting -- I hadn't thought of that approach. Now try doing it without `count` :-)
08:01	sobel	last is an nth
08:01	sobel	what are you thinking, (first (reverse x)) ?
08:02	lvh	Hello
08:02	llasram	Well, so some Clojure data structures know how long they are, but the general seq abstraction is more like a single-linked list -- you need to walk the whole thing to `count` it
08:02	sobel	maybe this tutorial isn't demanding enough of a clever cheat-monkey like myself. if i can turn the light green i move on.
08:02	llasram	There's (several) ways you can walk the structure yourself and just keep the last value
08:03	lvh	I am trying to figure out core.unify/logic; can someone epxlain why core.logic constraint functions ("relations") are special? like membero
08:03	sobel	yeah, i was actually wondering if count is legit on seqs, because what if it's a nonterminating seq
08:03	lvh	The docs suggest that they wouldn't be useless anywhere else.
08:03	lvh	I don't understand why; == seems to work fine
08:03	Morgawr	is there a let-keys macro or something like that to wrap around multiple (let [{:keys [whatev]} map]) calls?
08:03	Morgawr	I think it would be fairly useful
08:03	lvh	so I don't understand why membero can't just be contains?
08:04	sobel	using nth count did feel hacky. so reverse is generally preferred?
08:05	lvh	is it because membero understands how to deal with lvars?
08:06	llasram	sobel: well, think about what you'd need to do to reverse a link list (hint -- you'd be doing even more work, so no)
08:06	llasram	I mean, none of these are "preferred" -- obviously for real you can just call `last`
08:06	llasram	But for learning, these are useful things to think obout
08:06	llasram	about even
08:07	tbaldridge	lvh: yes, but it's also more than that. membero can say "is this value a member of this collection" or it can also say stuff like "give me all possible collections where this value is a member" or "what are all the members of this collection.
08:09	sobel	was first reverse the conceptual solution you were thinking of, after i used nth count?
08:09	sobel	or is there still another approach to understand
08:18	lvh	tbaldridge: Yes, I think my mind just exploded
08:19	voldyman	any idea how i can access the last row id after doing insert! in clojure.java.jdbc. insert! returns ({:last_insert_rowid() 3})
08:20	lvh	voldyman: At the risk of stating the obvious, (:last_insert_rowid() result)?
08:20	lvh	(Is that a syntax error or something?)
08:20	voldyman	lvh: :) i tried it. it return nil
08:20	voldyman	no actually
08:20	voldyman	it still returns the same object
08:21	lvh	voldyman: No idea, sorry :(
08:22	algernon	lvh: if you want to understand core.logic, I suggest reading The Reasoned Schemer. It is truly enlightening. (and makes it so much easier to understand core.logic, too)
08:22	Morgawr	opinion on this macro? https://gist.github.com/Morgawr/8687711
08:22	Morgawr	I don't know if it exists already or not but I always have to destructure my data with :keys and this seems really useful to me
08:23	Morgawr	(also the map-indexed thing looks horrible to me, maybe there's a better way to do it)
08:23	lvh	algernon: okie
08:28	mishok13	hi all, ran into a problem using Korma: https://gist.github.com/mishok13/8687718
08:29	mishok13	basically, there's some funky quoting in the where macro happening, but I can't figure out a way to make it work
08:29	mishok13	does anyone have any tips as to how passing your own quoted form to korma.core/where could be done?
08:30	llasram	sobel: Another approach :-)
08:34	sobel	llasram: i'm out
08:39	llasram	,((partial reduce (fn [_ x] x) nil) [:foo :bar :baz])
08:39	clojurebot	:baz
08:39	llasram	Or anything similar using loop/recur etc
08:40	mdrogalis	mishok13: Maybe try looking into HoneySQL.
08:41	mdrogalis	Runtime constructed queries aren't Korma's strength
08:41	sobel	ok, i don't know partial or reduce or _ yet but i was just reading reduce
08:41	sobel	(docs)
08:42	sobel	and recur occurred to me but i thought better of that approach
08:42	llasram	Oh, `_` is just a convention for "I need an identifier here, but I'm going to ignore it"
08:42	sobel	oh _ isn't special
08:42	llasram	nope
08:42	llasram	,(let [_ :fun!] _)
08:42	clojurebot	:fun!
08:43	llasram	`reduce` is your friend though. `reduce` holds the key to all Clojure awesomeness
08:43	sobel	map and filter are familiar from python use
08:44	hyPiRion	`for` as well, actually
08:44	mdrogalis	llasram: I thought #= holds the key to awesomeness.
08:44	hyPiRion	[x * 2 for x in y] is the same as (for [x y] (* x 2))
08:44	mishok13	mdrogalis: yeah, I'm considering it, but then how would I execute the queries?
08:44	hyPiRion	"the same" meaning ignoring laziness etc.
08:44	mishok13	jdbc, I presume?
08:45	mdrogalis	mishok13: I believe so, yeah.
08:45	mishok13	that would suck, since it means doing unrelated refactoring in the middle of the project
08:45	mdrogalis	Pick your poison. Either that, or unrelated derpy-ness with Korma.
08:45	lvh	Hi
08:46	mdrogalis	lvh: Morning
08:46	lvh	first/rest makes sense on sets, right?
08:46	mishok13	lvh: not really :)
08:46	lvh	also is (loop [x x] ...) okay? Since Iw ant to start with the current value of x, but I'm rebinding in recur
08:47	lvh	so, my use case is that I have a set of people, I want to deal with them one at a time, and I need efficient disj.
08:47	hyPiRion	lvh: first/rest doesn't really "make sense", but first returns any value in the set, and rest returns the rest of the set as a seq
08:47	lvh	okay, so, it doesn't make sense in the sense that the set has no particular first element
08:48	lvh	but if I want any element, and all the other elements for recur, then first/rest is how I spell that
08:48	lvh	?
08:48	hyPiRion	lvh: yeah, that's what I tried to convey :p
08:48	lvh	hyPiRion: Gotcha. Just checking if this is something I should be doing :)
08:49	lvh	(I understand that sets don't really have a meaningful numbered first element)
08:49	hyPiRion	lvh: yeah, if you want to do something for all the people, first/rest is okay. I'd try to use map/reduce first, but if you need some accumulator value, that's usually a tad hard.
08:50	lvh	Also, if I have that first element, want it out of the set, as well as a related element, should I spell that (disj (rest my-set) the-other-element), or (disj my-set the-first-element the-second-element)
08:50	hyPiRion	s/tad/bit/
08:50	lvh	hyPiRion: Yeah I am writing a lot of code that I am pretty sure could be written as a reduce
08:50	hyPiRion	lvh: the latter. The first one won't work
08:50	lvh	but I don't understand reducers enough yet to be able to turn my code from one to the other
08:50	hyPiRion	,(rest #{1 2 3 4})
08:50	clojurebot	(2 3 4)
08:50	lvh	hyPiRion: the output of rest isn't a set?
08:50	lvh	egads.
08:50	lvh	Okay thanks :)
08:51	hyPiRion	,(disj (rest #{1 2 3 4}) 3) ;; Poor lazybot :(
08:51	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.APersistentMap$KeySeq cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentSet>
08:51	lvh	(def any-elem first)
08:51	hyPiRion	,(disj #{2 3 4} 1 3)
08:51	clojurebot	#{2 4}
08:51	hyPiRion	lvh: comma first :)
08:51	lvh	hyPiRion: I didn't mean to get the bot to execute that
08:51	hyPiRion	ah
08:52	lvh	(Also I would guess that that isn't persistent so it wouldn't do much?)
08:53	hyPiRion	well, someone changed that. It's a 5 min cleanup for clojurebot I think
08:53	lvh	oh, cool.
08:53	hyPiRion	,(def any-elem first)
08:53	clojurebot	#'sandbox/any-elem
08:53	hyPiRion	,(any-elem #{1 2 3})
08:53	clojurebot	1
08:53	lvh	so, whenever I do cider-jack-in, I get java.lang.IllegalAccessError: pp does not exist
08:54	lvh	I'm guessing that means there's some site file I accidentally typed some junk into
08:54	lvh	I can't figure out where.
08:54	mdrogalis	lvh: It can't find clojure.pprint apparently.
08:55	lvh	mdrogalis: Oh. Okay. How do I get that?
08:55	lvh	Do I have to add it to each project.clj?
08:56	mdrogalis	lvh: No, it's in core. Google the error, you'll find something.
08:57	lvh	Okay, thanks :)
08:57	hyPiRion	usually (:require [clojure.pprint :as pp]) should resolve that if you add that into the ns form.
08:57	mdrogalis	Anytime.
09:01	lvh	mdrogalis: I found something that suggests putting in (sit-for 1) into a repl init defun. That sounds a bit silly :)
09:01	lvh	hyPiRion: Which ns form?
09:02	noncom	hi, i am getting error "javax.xml.stream.FactoryConfigurationError: Provider com.bea.xml.stream.MXParser Factory not found" upon trying to parse an XML string with clojure.data.xml library... any ideas on how to fix this?
09:02	mdrogalis	Weird. Can't say I actually know how to fix it.
09:02	hyPiRion	lvh: well, the (ns my-namespace.here) in top of your clojure files
09:03	lvh	hyPiRion: oh. even if that source file doesn't actually use pp?
09:03	hyPiRion	lvh: uh well, no. If that's the case, then something's weird is going on
09:06	mdrogalis	noncom: Do lein deps :tree and check the top for version collisions.
09:07	noncom	thanks, will check it out!
09:07	silasdavis	is there away to use git repositories as dependencies in leiningen?
09:08	CookedGryphon	silasdavis: checkouts?
09:09	noncom	mdrogalis: it gives advices on adding exclusions and stuff.. you think I should try it? whats funny, it runs fine in Eclipse CCW, but fails as a standalone jar on another machine..
09:09	noncom	(i mean the xml parsing fails)
09:10	mdrogalis	noncom: Yes, exclusions will help.
09:10	lvh	hyPiRion: It may be because I told cidr to pretty-print things
09:10	lvh	hyPiRion: perhaps it is expecting pretty print to always be available
09:10	silasdavis	CookedGryphon, sort of, I was hoping for something a bit slicker than that, sort of like how you can provide git urls in ruby gemfiles
09:11	hyPiRion	lvh: yeah, then you should probably tell cider to execute `(require '[clojure.pprint :as pp])` when jacking in. Not sure how you do that, though
09:13	CookedGryphon	silasdavis: nothing that I know of. What's stopping you just deploying it to clojars if it isn't there already?
09:14	silasdavis	it is there already
09:15	silasdavis	I have just serviced some pull requests that were left open on at-at
09:15	silasdavis	if I push to clojars will it namespace it under my name?
09:16	CookedGryphon	yep
09:17	llasram	silasdavis: You need to modify the project file to use a group-id you control
09:17	llasram	silasdavis: If you've done that, then you're gold
09:17	daGrevis	hi! can someone help me with clojure deps?
09:17	CookedGryphon	i think if the group id in project.clj is already taken, it'll do that automatically for you?
09:17	daGrevis	i'm using lein exec and I want to use contrib string
09:17	daGrevis	i have found this https://github.com/kumarshantanu/lein-exec#getting-dependencies-from-within-script
09:17	llasram	CookedGryphon: Nope -- it'll just reject your push
09:17	daGrevis	but I don't know how can I apply it together with http://richhickey.github.io/clojure-contrib/string-api.html
09:17	CookedGryphon	oh, I'm sure I've done that before without having to edit the project.clj
09:18	llasram	CookedGryphon: shrug I may be mistaken, but that is at odds with my understanding of the system
09:19	llasram	daGrevis: (a) anything clojure.contrib is ancient history and unlikely to work, unless you're stuck on Clojure 1.2 for some reason
09:19	llasram	(b) The official Clojure github repos are under the `clojure` org now, not the richhickey user
09:19	daGrevis	llasram, ohh. well I would like to use string.substring?. where could I find it?
09:19	CookedGryphon	llasram: it might depend whether the project.clj already specifies a group-id or you let it pick the default one
09:19	llasram	(doc subs)
09:19	clojurebot	"([s start] [s start end]); Returns the substring of s beginning at start inclusive, and ending at end (defaults to length of string), exclusive."
09:20	llasram	daGrevis: ^ that?
09:20	daGrevis	llasram, not subs. substring? like to check if "xy" is in "xyz"
09:20	daGrevis	llasram, tried with (some) but it has a lot of boilerplate
09:22	llasram	,(#(not (neg? (.indexOf %1 %2))) "xyz" "xy")
09:22	clojurebot	true
09:22	daGrevis	llasram, and I think that some won't work with strings, only with integers
09:22	daGrevis	llasram, yes, that's an option. can I do it w/o Java?
09:23	llasram	Given that Clojure strings are Java strings, not technically, no :-)
09:23	llasram	Avoiding JVM method interop to avoid it is a way to be very unhappy writing JVM Clojure
09:23	devn	,((complement neg?) (.indexOf "xyz" "xy"))
09:23	clojurebot	true
09:23	daGrevis	too bad, I'm not a big fun of Java
09:23	devn	i like that a bit better, just nitpicking
09:23	hyPiRion	people
09:23	daGrevis	*fan
09:24	hyPiRion	,(.contains "xyz" "xy")
09:24	clojurebot	true
09:24	llasram	hyPiRion: Dorb
09:24	devn	oh, was that was he was trying to do?
09:24	mdrogalis	daGrevis: I don't think any of us are 'fans' of Java, but you're gonna have a bad time if you don't leverage the runtime better.
09:24	llasram	I knew that was there. I just couldn't remember the method name
09:24	daGrevis	you see, I like to imagine clojure as an standard not implementation. might as well run my code on clojure-py
09:25	mdrogalis	Better get on that, tbaldridge.
09:25	llasram	daGrevis: In my experience, so dreams are not yet to be :-)
09:25	llasram	s,so dreams,such dreams,
09:25	tbaldridge	daGrevis: come to the dark side, we have super fast JITs with the best GCs on the planet :-P
09:26	devn	daGrevis: i think what you're saying is correct long-term
09:26	devn	but right now the reality is: use the jvm
09:26	daGrevis	lets hope it happens :)
09:26	hyPiRion	daGrevis: I have a coworker who refuses to write Clojure for that reason. Problem is, creating such a "standard" is super hard if you want to compete with the JVM, and I don't think rhickey and friends got time to compete with that.
09:26	devn	no one does
09:27	daGrevis	well jvm is good and bad at the same time
09:27	daGrevis	it's stable and fast, but it's huge
09:27	atyz	Hey guys. I'm trying to use core.async to validate a collection of entities asynchronously. However its not returning the collection I expect it to. Infact tis not returning anything at all. I feel that I'm doing somethign obviously wrong. https://www.refheap.com/694be39810dace491121144d2
09:27	tbaldridge	daGrevis: hyPiRion: is right. I've spent way to much of the last 3-4 years researching this sort of thing. Without the features the JVM offers, getting code that runs even close to the speed of the JVM is very very hard.
09:27	atyz	Is anyone willing to take a look at that for a second? Just want a step in the right direction
09:28	daGrevis	what about contains fn that uses java contains if the code is run on jvm, but uses X if the code is run on X runtime?
09:29	daGrevis	i really dislike explicit calls of Java fns, that's all
09:29	llasram	daGrevis: Why?
09:29	lvh	actual: java.lang.NullPointerException: null
09:29	lvh	Woo!
09:29	llasram	I mean, in practice?
09:29	daGrevis	llasram, because it means that my code will work only on jvm
09:29	hyPiRion	Perhaps for strings, just to bridge clj/cljs better.
09:29	llasram	Yes, but where else are you going to run it?
09:30	hyPiRion	Problem is overhead, probably.
09:30	daGrevis	llasram, for now, nowhere else. but you know, if clojure gets successful, there will be other runtimes
09:31	daGrevis	i could compare it to javascript. it would be awful to call v8 specific-fns in js
09:31	llasram	And after the Singularity, none of our code will ever be run again
09:31	tbaldridge	daGrevis: when that happens, move those functions into a differend ns and port to CLJS or clojure-clr or something. At least in my code, only about 5% is host interop
09:31	daGrevis	what is this Singularity you are talking about, llasram ?
09:31	lvh	How do I spell (thing map) except when thing is nil? Is (get thing map) good?
09:32	hyPiRion	daGrevis, llasram: Actually, I'd rather just write Java calls and then use use contrib.tools.analyzer to rewrite the code for the other runtime. I'm sure bronsa is at it already :p
09:32	hyPiRion	Granted, that would be interesting for me, not sure if it suits you.
09:35	llasram	hyPiRion: Oooh. That would be fancy.
09:35	llasram	daGrevis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity
09:36	CookedGryphon	atyz: <!! is the blocking version for use outside of go blocks, inside a go block use <!
09:37	CookedGryphon	so you're probably locking all your threadpools before they've done anything
09:37	atyz	CookedGryphon: Thanks for the reply. I still don't get the collection back. it just returns the channels
09:38	CookedGryphon	threads*
09:38	CookedGryphon	okay, so go returns a channel
09:39	CookedGryphon	sorry, I'm not sure I follow the code
09:39	CookedGryphon	why aren't you putting the entities onto the challen
09:39	CookedGryphon	c is an empty channel with nothing on it
09:39	CookedGryphon	so nothing is ever going to come out of it...
09:40	atyz	I thought that the (async/map< #(f entities) c) would put them onto the channel?
09:40	CookedGryphon	no, map< will apply the function to each item as it passes through the channel
09:40	CookedGryphon	and returns a channel with your transformed values coming out of it
09:41	CookedGryphon	onto-chan puts the contents of a collection onto a channel
09:41	atyz	Oh, so I would need to (map #(async/!> %) entities) ?
09:41	atyz	or (async/map> entities c)
09:42	CookedGryphon	step back, what's the basic idea here
09:42	CookedGryphon	you have a list and you want to validate them one by one and have the items come out of a channel once they've validate
09:42	CookedGryphon	d
09:42	atyz	Correct
09:43	lvh	I have a bunch of persons, defined as: {... :partner other-person}. Is there a group-by :partner, except that I know everything should be 1:1, so group-by except dont put things in a vector + complain loudly when an association already existed
09:44	CookedGryphon	so, you want to do (onto-chan c entities)
09:44	llasram	lvh: Nothing exactly like that that I'm aware of, but easy enough to do in a `reduce`
09:44	CookedGryphon	(let [validated (map< valid-entities c)] ...
09:44	CookedGryphon	and then pull the values out of that new validated channel
09:45	CookedGryphon	sorry, map valid-entity?
09:45	CookedGryphon	in fact you don't want to map at all do you, you want to filter<
09:46	atyz	You're very right
09:46	CookedGryphon	then you can use async/into to pull the results out into another collection, or you could pull them out one by one with <! or feed that channel into something else
09:47	atyz	Thanks so much! Youv'e been a great help. I'm going to try this
09:47	CookedGryphon	not sure what you really gain by doing this with core async though, if this is all there is to the problem
09:47	CookedGryphon	you might be better looking at reducers for parallel filtering with much less boilerplate and confusion
09:48	atyz	CookedGryphon: Its a simple problem I'm using to try out the library
09:48	CookedGryphon	in that case carry on :)
09:52	lvh	llasram: Okay. How do I break out of a reduce by raising an exception? I'm guessing it's return an exception from the reducing function?
09:53	llasram	lvh: No -- if you throw an exception, the exception will propagate normally
09:54	lvh	I didn't realize I could throw in clj :)
09:55	llasram	,(throw (ex-info "Alaram!" {:bells :many}))
09:55	clojurebot	#<ExceptionInfo clojure.lang.ExceptionInfo: Alaram! {:bells :many}>
09:56	hyPiRion	alaram sounds like character
09:56	hyPiRion	*some character
09:56	hyPiRion	like Radagast.
09:56	llasram	Yeah, I meant to say "alarum". Alaram the Red sounds pretty badass though
09:57	hyPiRion	hehe
09:57	sandbags0	i may be imagining it but isn't there already a way of breaking out of a reduce? I'm sure I read some such just a few days ago
09:57	Bronsa	sandbags0: reduced
09:57	sandbags0	Bronsa: thank you
09:59	daGrevis	lazyness rules so much
10:00	daGrevis	thought my code is super fast but actually it wasn't evaluated. :( :D
10:03	shep-werk	daGrevis: can't get much faster than that!
10:03	daGrevis	from instant to 7s :(
10:03	shep-werk	only thing faster would have been to not write it in the first place :-)
10:03	daGrevis	http://vpaste.net/u0pzI
10:05	ddellacosta	daGrevis: why are you doing three filters like that, rather than composing your predicates together and doing it in one, any reason?
10:06	ddellacosta	and holy heck what is up with that range
10:07	daGrevis	ddellacosta, i don't know any other way. can you show me?
10:07	ddellacosta	daGrevis: ah, okay
10:07	daGrevis	ddellacosta, are you talking about step being 2013?
10:07	ddellacosta	daGrevis: naw, just complaining 'cause my repl is spitting out numbers endlessly
10:07	ddellacosta	heh, one sec
10:15	tim_	i'm confused about the map function with an anonymous function, for example: '(map #(format "<p>%s</p>" %) ["1" "2" "3"])' What does the last '%' represent? the input list??
10:15	lazybot	tim_: Uh, no. Why would you even ask?
10:15	tim_	:-)
10:16	arkh	anyone have any opinions on using Future vs. CompletionHandler for java.nio.channels.AsynchronousSocketChannel ?
10:16	RickInAtlanta	tim_ when declaring a function with #() the % is a standin for a passed parameter
10:16	hyPiRion	tim_: the last % represents the first input value given. In this case, it is "1", "2" and "3", respectively
10:17	RickInAtlanta	(map #(* 2 %) [1 2 3])
10:17	RickInAtlanta	,(map #(* 2 %) [1 2 3])
10:17	clojurebot	(2 4 6)
10:18	dkinzer	,(map #(% 2 4) '(+ - *))
10:19	clojurebot	(4 4 4)
10:19	dabbeling_in_clo	hello there i'm just starting with clojure , if I start a new project with leiningen and then go into the project with lein repl, how do I "re evaluate " I my namespace if I make changes to my file?
10:19	dkinzer	that didn't work as expected :)
10:20	tim_	ok, thanks. So if i wanted to replace the anonymous function with a named function, such as (defn f2 [keyword] (str "<p>" keyword "</p>")), would it need to take the list as an argument as well?
10:20	dkinzer	,(map #(% (% 2 4)) '(+ - *))
10:20	clojurebot	(nil nil nil)
10:20	llasram	tim_: The first % in your original is just part of the format string
10:20	llasram	It has nothing to do with the anonymous function
10:20	dkinzer	,(map #(-> (% 2 4)) '(+ - *))
10:20	clojurebot	(4 4 4)
10:21	tim_	@llasram Sorry, was interested in the last '%'
10:21	RickInAtlanta	,(map #(% 2 4) [+ - *])
10:21	clojurebot	(6 -2 8)
10:21	arkh	dabbeling_in_clo: are you using a repl at the command line or through an editor like emacs?
10:21	dabbeling_in_clo	arkh: I use the command line
10:21	dkinzer	(inc RickInAtlanta)
10:21	lazybot	⇒ 1
10:21	dabbeling_in_clo	arkh: I use the command line, and a seperate text editor
10:22	tim_	(use 'namespace :reload-all) may help
10:22	RickInAtlanta	jcrossley3: did you have to drive anywhere yesterday?
10:22	ToxicFrog	dabbeling_in_clo: IME, without using additional libraries, quitting and restarting the repl is the only reliable way; (use 'namespace :reload-all) works sometimes.
10:22	llasram	tim_: Ok -- thought I sensed some confusion there. Otherwise you can just do e.g. (fn [x] (format "<p>%s</p>" x))
10:22	ToxicFrog	dabbeling_in_clo: people have in the past recommended using tools.namespace (https://github.com/clojure/tools.namespace) and then using its (refresh) function.
10:23	jcrossley3	RickInAtlanta: i did! i had to save a few of my neighbors. :)
10:24	dabbeling_in_clo	ToxicFrog: thanks that will do until now :)
10:24	RickInAtlanta	glad to hear you didn't get stuck any where. I didn't leave the house
10:25	jcrossley3	RickInAtlanta: i heartily recommend honda ridgelines in freezing snow, fwiw
10:26	ddellacosta	daGrevis: this isn't much of an improvement but it's a bit easier to read I think: https://www.refheap.com/29352
10:26	RickInAtlanta	I'll remember that if I ever move back north. Down here, I just don't go out in it.
10:27	daGrevis	ddellacosta, why did you choose rem over mode?
10:27	daGrevis	s/mode/mod/
10:27	daGrevis	and why do you dislike zero?
10:27	ddellacosta	daGrevis: oh, I don't have any great reason for it, was just playing around
10:28	daGrevis	what's the benefit for using distinct instead of set?
10:28	ddellacosta	daGrevis: oh, did I leave that in? yeah, I don't know if it's any better than your solution. Again, just playing around with those two, seeing if there were other ways to do it.
10:28	daGrevis	ddellacosta, thanks for (all fn).
10:29	ddellacosta	daGrevis: still wicked slow though. I take it you're just playing around in the repl though?
10:29	daGrevis	ddellacosta, what do you mean?
10:30	ddellacosta	daGrevis: well, if you force evaluation it's going to be doing a linear search through a buttload of numbers, I believe
10:31	daGrevis	ddellacosta, force-eval with and, you mean?
10:32	daGrevis	distinct is much slower than set.
10:32	daGrevis	( :D
10:32	daGrevis	* surrealanalysis (~kevin@23-25-48-173-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined
10:32	daGrevis	* aspotashev has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
10:32	daGrevis	* sputnikus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
10:32	daGrevis	* zan-xhipe has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
10:32	daGrevis	* federkasten (~federkast@ad046065.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) has joined
10:32	daGrevis	* eraserhd (~jfelice@74.201.7.112) has joined
10:32	daGrevis	* aaronj1335 is now known as aaronj1335_
10:32	daGrevis	<shep-werk> daGrevis: can't get much faster than that!
10:32	daGrevis	<daGrevis> from instant to 7s :(
10:32	daGrevis	<shep-werk> only thing faster would have been to not write it in the first place :-)
10:32	daGrevis	<daGrevis> http://vpaste.net/u0pzI
10:32	daGrevis	* animated has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
10:32	ddellacosta	daGrevis: what's going on there
10:32	daGrevis	* goodger has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
10:32	daGrevis	* bertrandk (~bertrandk@135-23-72-39.cpe.pppoe.ca) has joined
10:32	daGrevis	<ddellacosta> daGrevis: why are you doing three filters like that, rather than composing your predicates together and doing it in one, any reason?
10:32	daGrevis	* lnostdal (~lnostdal@2001:8a0:4925:6801:8bd:21b9:afe1:1184) has joined
10:32	llasram	Obviously a paste error
10:32	daGrevis	* TEttinger (~notostrac@76-217-24-241.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined
10:32	daGrevis	* federkasten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
10:32	daGrevis	* baoist has quit (Quit: baoist)
10:32	daGrevis	<ddellacosta> and holy heck what is up with that range
10:32	daGrevis	<daGrevis> ddellacosta, i don't know any other way. can you show me?
10:32	daGrevis	<ddellacosta> daGrevis: ah, okay
10:32	ddellacosta	llasram: yep.
10:32	daGrevis	<daGrevis> ddellacosta, are you talking about step being 2013?
10:32	daGrevis	* john2x has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
10:32	daGrevis	sorry....
10:32	ddellacosta	I'm having flashback
10:32	daGrevis	25s vs 7s
10:33	lnostdal	well hello #clojure
10:33	ddellacosta	*a
10:33	daGrevis	sorry for spam, missclicked middle-click on Linux
10:33	surrealanalysis	It made me feel important, at least :)
10:33	ddellacosta	hahaha
10:33	lnostdal	:D
10:33	goodger	what in satan's glorious name
10:33	gfredericks	(inc daGrevis)
10:33	lazybot	⇒ 1
10:33	AeroNotix	Can I (require) code from other test/*.clj files when using core.test?
10:33	ddellacosta	sh*t happens
10:33	llasram	AeroNotix: Why would you not be able to?
10:33	AeroNotix	dunno, just asking
10:34	joegallo	maybe you should try it, and see
10:34	daGrevis	so why is set so much faster than distinct on a string?
10:36	llasram	daGrevis: With `distinct` you build the set anyway to make sure each item is distinct, but are repeatedly checking the set to see if each item is distinct, performing overhead to build the seq of distinct items which are returned, then you walk it again linearly to get the count
10:36	ddellacosta	daGrevis: well, distinct is actually filtering through stuff in Clojure whereas set is just creating a set (which is a Java object I believe)
10:36	ddellacosta	or what llasram said much more eloquently ^^
10:36	llasram	daGrevis: With the set you just add everything, then get the stored count of items
10:37	daGrevis	I'm trying to apply and, but it splits out different results. any ideas why? http://vpaste.net/a9QQS
10:38	Morgawr	I'll ask again, maybe now there are different people, what do you guys think of https://gist.github.com/Morgawr/8687711 this macro? Is there something similar already?
10:38	llasram	daGrevis: You aren't actually calling `digits-unique?`
10:38	Morgawr	because I find it useful for my codebase but I'm not sure if it's safe and/or reasonable
10:38	llasram	Just including the (always truthy) value of the function itself in the `and`
10:39	daGrevis	llasram, ye, my bad. thanks
10:39	llasram	Morgawr: Why is that better than the standard binding form?
10:40	daGrevis	what what what !? it runs 7x faster than using three filters
10:40	Morgawr	llasram: because in my codebase I usually have to destructure a lot of maps and get their keys to use as variable (passing state around etc etc)
10:40	Morgawr	and it gets tiring when I write multiple (let [{:keys []} map1 {:keys []} map2] etc etc)
10:40	zerokarmaleft	daGrevis: why are you checking to see if your range is divisible by 2013 when you're stepping by 2013 anyway?
10:41	llasram	Morgawr: Sure, but it's like what -- 2 characters shorter? And you can't use it with any other binding forms
10:41	Morgawr	it's not 2 characters shorter when you have 4-5 maps to destructure
10:41	daGrevis	zerokarmaleft, good point
10:41	Morgawr	plus it looks tidier to read imo
10:42	Morgawr	obviously if I don't have maps but have something else to assign I have to use an inner (or outer) normal let but that's expected
10:42	zerokarmaleft	daGrevis: I'd replace (range 2013 9876543210 2013) with (iterate (partial + 2013) 2013)
10:43	llasram	Morgawr: I see. It might mean you are over-using maps :-) It's a bit too trivial for my taste, but I can see the argument. Consistency w/in a code base w/ that sort of thing is probably the most important
10:44	Morgawr	llasram: It's a game engine where entities are made of components, an entity is a map of components and components are maps of inner state, I can't really do it in another way :P
10:44	Morgawr	so usually I have code that extracts components from an entity, then extract individual fields from the required components, does some computation and then repackages everything
10:45	Morgawr	aka I deal with maps a lot
10:45	gfredericks	Morgawr: the f# name is unnecessary
10:45	Morgawr	gfredericks: is it?
10:45	llasram	zerokarmaleft, daGrevis: and probably then add a `first` or `take <n>`
10:45	Morgawr	oh well, since it's outside of the quote part I guess you're right
10:45	Morgawr	not going to conflict with anything
10:45	gfredericks	Morgawr: exactly
10:45	Morgawr	good point
10:45	Morgawr	same for i# and e#
10:46	Morgawr	I wrote that just to be safe but yeah, didn't think it through
10:46	gfredericks	Morgawr: I don't think this is a terrible macro; the impl might be slightly clearer with partition-all instead of map-indexed
10:46	gfredericks	but I think it's pretty obvious what it does
10:46	gfredericks	which is a good attribute for a macro I think
10:47	Morgawr	gfredericks: oh, right, I didn't like map-indexed myself so I was looking for a better way
10:47	Morgawr	partition-all might be useful
10:53	luxbock	https://gist.github.com/8690806
10:53	luxbock	how do I unlazify this mess?
10:53	luxbock	I thought doall was the solution but maybe it's not working because I'm using the threading macro?
10:53	Anderkent	doall realizes, but doesnt unlazify
10:54	Anderkent	i think you just want seq
10:54	Anderkent	,(str (doall (map inc [1 2 3])))
10:54	clojurebot	"clojure.lang.LazySeq@7c42"
10:55	Anderkent	,(str (seq (map inc [1 2 3])))
10:55	clojurebot	"(2 3 4)"
10:55	luxbock	alright thanks
10:56	hyPiRion	,(pr-str (map inc [1 2 3]))
10:56	clojurebot	"(2 3 4)"
10:56	zerokarmaleft	daGrevis: if I'm correctly understanding what your snippet is trying to do:
10:56	lvh	What is the right way to interpolate some text into a string
10:56	zerokarmaleft	,(take 5 (filter #(= (count ((comp set str) %)) (count (str %))) (iterate (partial + 2013) 2013)))
10:56	mdrogalis	,(doc format)
10:56	clojurebot	(2013 4026 6039 8052 12078)
10:56	clojurebot	"([fmt & args]); Formats a string using java.lang.String.format, see java.util.Formatter for format string syntax"
10:56	lvh	mdrogalis: Thanks!
10:57	quizdr	,(println "hi, christine!")
10:57	clojurebot	hi, christine!\n
10:59	lvh	mdrogalis: Is there an alternative that supports named keys instead of by-index?
10:59	mdrogalis	lvh: Not sure.
10:59	Anderkent	you mean in format? not in core java
10:59	Morgawr	gfredericks: https://gist.github.com/Morgawr/8687711 do you think this might look better? I don't like having to use that map to add {:keys } to the first element of all the pairs (is there a better way?) nor I like having to use flatten + vec
10:59	Morgawr	but I guess it's better than the previous one
10:59	Anderkent	i think java 8 brings that in?
11:02	Anderkent	maybe not. Pretty sure apache commons lang has something like that though ;p
11:03	stuartsierra	There's a string interpolating macro in core.incubator I think. Hasn't been touched in a while so beware.
11:14	gfredericks	Morgawr: you can use mapcat instead of map + comp, and then [~@key-bindings] instead of ~key-bindings
11:15	Morgawr	gfredericks: thanks
11:16	ghadishayban	Has anyone gotten friend + openID to work behind a load balancer?
11:16	ghadishayban	I'm getting a 'No association found, contacting the OP for direct verification' failed inside OpenID4java
11:23	cemerick	ghadishayban: Should just work; there's an openid example at http://friend-demo.herokuapp.com, which of course always runs behind a load balancer
11:24	Anderkent	ghadishayban: do you pass a custom consumer manager to the workflow?
11:25	Anderkent	ghadishayban: if so, you might not be initializing it fully? See http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7645226 - similar error, friend does most of this in https://github.com/cemerick/friend/blob/master/src/cemerick/friend/openid.clj#L107 but only if it's building the manager itself
11:26	Anderkent	uh actually nvm, it's not even a similar problem, tricked by google's removal of literal quotes again!
11:27	ghadishayban	Anderkent: Huh?
11:27	Anderkent	just ignore me :P I searched wrong (no 'literal' option in search tools) and got that stack overflow question thinking it's related. blame google.
11:27	Anderkent	(s/literal/verbatim. Anyway)
11:30	ghadishayban	cemerick: are there multiple nodes behine the load balancer at friend-demo?
11:30	Anderkent	ghadishayban: do you get another error following that message? the 'no association' shouldn't abort the entire flow, it just means it can't verify the signature locally
11:31	ghadishayban	Anderkent: You're totally right, it continues with: No association found, contacting the OP for direct verification...
11:32	ghadishayban	Anderkent: which returns a document with is_valid:false
11:32	cemerick	ghadishayban: no; friend's openid impl just uses the default in-memory backend for openid4java. You can either implement a distributed/cluster-aware component for the corresponding bit in its API, or restrict logins to a single node.
11:32	ghadishayban	Anderkent: Direct signature verification failed with OP: https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/ud
11:32	cemerick	ghadishayban: relevant lines: https://github.com/cemerick/friend/blob/master/src/cemerick/friend/openid.clj#L107
11:32	ghadishayban	cemerick: ty
11:33	cemerick	ghadishayban: oh, or you can just turn on session affinity (if your LB supports it)
11:33	ghadishayban	cemerick: but it still should be able to perform the direct sig verification, right?
11:34	cemerick	ghadishayban: Don't know, I try to forget as much as I can about openid, etc. :-P
11:34	ghadishayban	cemerick: heh yeah
11:34	cemerick	I'm guessing not, even "direct" verification requires a couple of redirects, so if you land on a different web server, you're SOL
11:35	Yamazaki-kun	anyone just get an email from Apress? "vbvhgvhg" "BUY OUR BOOKS" "Use promo code MKJKJH by MM/DD/YY"
11:35	Yamazaki-kun	I'll be disappointed if that promo code doesn't do anything.
11:35	Yamazaki-kun	slaps the copyeditor?
11:35	xnil	is that the actual promo code?
11:39	ghadishayban	cemerick: thanks for your help. The direct verif requires redirects in your own app (the Relying Party)? I guess I have to dig in to the spec
11:40	cemerick	ghadishayban: Honestly, no idea. If you can turn on session affinity, that's absolutely the easiest way to go.
11:48	bbloom	akurilin: pong
11:57	Pupeno_w	Does anybody remember that comic, black and white, where a guy learns that closures and poor man's objects and then learns that objects are poor man's closures?
11:59	Morgawr	Pupeno_w: no but I'm intrigued now haha
12:01	lvh	clojure.contrib.strint does what I want, but it appears to be a gnarly macro that takes a string at compile time
12:01	lvh	is there a runtime equivalent?
12:01	lvh	I'm reading templates from files.
12:03	devn	well, it's another macro, but there's: https://github.com/alandipert/interpol8
12:03	devn	lvh: ^
12:03	S11001001	Pupeno_w: Yeah I remember it.
12:03	S11001001	Pupeno_w: (not where I saw it, if you're asking :)
12:04	Anderkent	S11001001: remember a quote or title or something ? :P
12:04	Pupeno_w	I'm trying to find it.
12:04	Yamazaki-kun	xnil: I have no idea. Probably just a placeholder, unless they decide to play along and enable it
12:04	Pupeno_w	I already blew my partner's mind with Smalltalk... Clojure is next and the comic at the end so she goes into deep meditation.
12:04	Yamazaki-kun	what, Erlang's not enough for mind-blowing?
12:05	devn	lvh: is that at all what you're looking for?
12:06	devn	lvh: one more for you: https://gist.github.com/blacktaxi/1676575
12:06	Anderkent	lvh: just wrap http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-lang/apidocs/org/apache/commons/lang3/text/StrSubstitutor.html if you can't find anything. I'd expect anything that wraps java.util.Format will be a macro (it'll pick out the names out of the string and replace them with ints)
12:06	RickInAtlanta	pupeno_w this isn't a comic, but it starts with a story http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ClosuresAndObjectsAreEquivalent
12:07	devn	lvh: both call read-string, so maybe not ideal
12:07	devn	but im mostly okay with it
12:07	Pupeno_w	RickInAtlanta: mmhh... that's definitely what I'm remembering. I wonder if someone turned it into a comic or it was my mind making shit up.
12:15	lvh	Anderkent: I have no problem that it is a macro
12:15	silasdavis	has anyone used timbre to write multiple logs
12:15	silasdavis	like a separate error log and request log?
12:15	llasram	log4j 4 life
12:15	lvh	Anderkent: Although I guess there's no good reason for it to be a macro if it's just doing straught interpolation
12:16	silasdavis	llasram, srsly?
12:17	llasram	silasdavis: Every single Java logging framework is overly complicated, but I can turn log4j into a homogonous stream of text-lines on stderr easier than I can with most of the others
12:17	gfredericks	lvh: macros can parse a format string ahead of time
12:17	llasram	even homogeneous
12:17	lvh	gfredericks: Right, I understand, but the thing is that I don't necessarily know the format strings ahead of time
12:17	lvh	gfredericks: I guess maybe I could make it so that I can? I guess?
12:19	lvh	gfredericks: It just seems to me that if it can be done at compiletime, there should be some easy way to just do it at runtime instead?
12:19	lvh	maybe I want apply-macro, except the docstring suggetss against it ;)
12:21	gfredericks	lvh: some macros with this goal will do compile-time if possible and runtime otherwise
12:21	gfredericks	can also accomplish such a thing using :inline metadata
12:21	gfredericks	but if this isn't a perf issue for you already them probably don't bother?
12:22	lvh	gfredericks: Right; I haven't written any code yet. It's my understanding that strint's (>>) simply does not work without a string literal
12:22	lvh	but I could be wrong :)
12:24	llasram	lvh: Nothing is purely compile time, because there is always "eval"
12:25	technomancy	eval is compile time =)
12:25	technomancy	compile time is just a subset of runtime
12:25	gfredericks	lvh: yeah that's probably true; it could be rewritten to support both
12:26	llasram	technomancy: Fair enough
12:27	gfredericks	runtime is just a subset of time
12:27	gfredericks	~time
12:27	clojurebot	time is limited
12:28	gfredericks	,(clojure.set/subset? (set "time") (set "limited"))
12:28	clojurebot	#<ClassNotFoundException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.set>
12:28	gfredericks	&(clojure.set/subset? (set "time") (set "limited"))
12:28	lazybot	⇒ true
12:29	gfredericks	if you have a sufficiently small universe of objects you can implement bags using prime numbers for elements and positive integers for bags; then inclusion and subbag? are both divisibility checks
12:30	gfredericks	union is LCM?
12:30	gfredericks	intersection is GCD
12:30	gfredericks	I doubt this is actually useful
12:41	elsen	Next time I'll need to use bit-strings to solve a problem I'll go for the prime representation instead
12:41	elsen	thanks gfredericks
12:46	gfredericks	bitstrings are for sets, not bags
12:54	gfredericks	just split the routing step out of the base ring handler so the middlewares know what route was matched
13:03	tim_	hi, is pedestal a widely used framework?
13:16	technomancy	tim_: I don't get that impression
13:16	technomancy	not that I would know
13:17	tim_	thanks
13:28	akurilin	bbloom: was going to run a couple of ideas regarding cancan in clj by you, let me drop you a line later in the day when I'm at the office
13:28	bbloom	akurilin: ok
14:51	eyepatch	Could someone explain these results to me? I know that last is slow and linear time, but this seems outrageous. http://ideone.com/6vSlaN
14:57	edbond	eyepatch, time returns early because of laziness
14:58	edbond	eyepatch, compare (time (map (fn [_] (Thread/sleep 2)) (range 10)))
14:58	edbond	eyepatch, and (time (doall (map (fn [_] (Thread/sleep 2)) (range 10))))
14:58	edbond	,(time (doall (map (fn [_] (Thread/sleep 2)) (range 10))))
14:58	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 24.298924 msecs"\n(nil nil nil nil nil ...)
14:58	edbond	,(time (map (fn [_] (Thread/sleep 2)) (range 10)))
14:58	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.124207 msecs"\n(nil nil nil nil nil ...)
15:02	edbond	eyepatch, so you got time result first and then repl do the work of realizing lazy sequence
15:04	edbond	got time result => you measure time to create lazy sequence
15:05	eyepatch	edbond, that makes sense, but how do I tell it not to do that? conv to vec?
15:06	edbond	eyepatch, use dorun/doall/doseq
15:06	edbond	eyepatch, http://onclojure.com/2009/03/04/dorun-doseq-doall/
15:06	edbond	eyepatch, and https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9143837/in-clojure-is-there-a-doseq-like-function-that-receives-a-function-instead-of-b
15:08	bbloom	edbond: i've needed that several times. whenever i make it, i call it "each"
15:09	eyepatch	Wow. I've been working in the completely wrong areas.
15:09	eyepatch	Taking 1 ms down to < 1 ms instead of working the other 762 ms
15:10	xnil	Hey. I'm following the instructions for getting Clojure working in Emacs here http://clojure-doc.org/articles/tutorials/emacs.html and I've run into the following issue when running `M-x eval-buffer` on ~/.emacs.d/init.el : "error: Package `starter-kit` is not available for installation"
15:13	xnil	Any idea why?
15:15	cark	try X-x package-refresh ?
15:15	cark	M-x
15:16	cark	package-refresh-contents actually
15:22	xnil	cark: excellent, thanks
15:22	cark	yay !
15:43	CaptainLex	Is clojure still dependent on jre6?
15:44	hiredman	jre6 is the minimum required version of the jvm
15:45	hiredman	well, I should say, whenever 1.6 is released it will be
15:45	CaptainLex	But we can use jre7 if we want to now? I seem to recall when I started there was an issue with use jre7
15:45	hiredman	sure
15:45	CaptainLex	Cool, thanks hiredman
15:51	ghadishayban	cemerick: got the OpenID woes sorted out. Turns out that openid4java will attempt to make associations with the provider, then fallback to a direct verification of a client's presented cert
15:52	ghadishayban	cemerick: that is a violation of the spec, and Google will fail the verification if Association was already performed
15:52	ghadishayban	cemerick: So I had to call .setMaxAssocAttempts -> 0 on ConsumerManager, which friend allows you to do
15:53	mercwithamouth	i could have sworn you could start the server like this with light table/compojure...can someone thump me on my head please? http://d.pr/i/niPh
15:53	ghadishayban	cemerick: that way both nodes behind the balancer will never Associate and instead call Google for direct verification. Good enough for our purposes
15:53	mercwithamouth	this is what i get for taking 2 week breaks from clojure
15:54	ghadishayban	mercwithamouth: (use) first, then (in-ns)
15:54	mercwithamouth	ahh oops
15:55	BobSchack	A zipper is the data structure I want to use if I need to get an element and the elements to the the left and right of it. I'm trying to implement the borderline sequence of Fortune's algorithm (http://blog.ivank.net/fortunes-algorithm-and-implementation.html)
15:56	mercwithamouth	ghadishayban: that gets me part of the way there. there was something i used to do where i could just (use 'fossacube.repl) then (star-server) why i didn't write it in my notes is beyond me
15:56	mercwithamouth	that still doesn't work for me either for some reason...
15:57	ghadishayban	mercwithamouth: so at this point you have to do a :reload
15:57	ghadishayban	mercwithamouth: the first time you did (ns foo) it loaded foo, and now Clojure thinks it's loaded, so will no-op
15:58	ghadishayban	mercwithamouth: (use 'foo :reload) , then (start-server)
16:01	mercwithamouth	ahh got it!
16:01	mercwithamouth	that's it...
16:01	mercwithamouth	if i start a instarepl from handler.clj then everything loads as it should
16:01	mercwithamouth	thank you
16:21	bobajett	noob question - what am I missing here? (let [f 'print] (f "hello"))
16:21	dnolen	bobajett: just doesn't work
16:21	sdegutis	bobajett: ##(let [f println] (f "hello"))
16:21	lazybot	⇒ hello nil
16:21	edbond	looks like macro
16:22	dnolen	'print is a symbol completely unrelated to print the function
16:22	sdegutis	Nobody knows why it works that way, it just does.
16:23	insamniac	Therefore aliens.
16:23	sdegutis	Wow, that response made my day.
16:23	sdegutis	(inc insamniac)
16:23	lazybot	⇒ 1
16:23	insamniac	:D
16:23	bobajett	so if f has a function as a symbol in it - and I want to apply f. Do I need to eval it? apply it? ((eval f) "hello")?
16:23	stuartsierra	,('+ 1 2)
16:23	clojurebot	2
16:24	stuartsierra	##('+ 3 4)
16:24	lazybot	⇒ 4
16:24	sdegutis	bobajett: why not just store the function itself in f?
16:24	edbond	,(let [- +] (- 2 1))
16:24	clojurebot	3
16:24	SegFaultAX	bobajett: If you ever think to yourself "I need to use eval for this", you've probably gone horribly wrong somewhere.
16:24	stuartsierra	Oh, inlining arithmetic screws with that.
16:24	edbond	nice, should use somewhere :)
16:24	stuartsierra	,('assoc {} :a 1)
16:24	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: Symbol>
16:24	SegFaultAX	Not always of course, but most of the time.
16:25	AimHere	Redefining arithmetic operations looks like the beginnings of an obfuscated clojure contest entry
16:25	bobajett	SegFaultAX: good to know. I guess Im trying
16:26	sdegutis	Oh wait, aren't symbols also functions to look themselves up in an associative coll?
16:26	sdegutis	Kinda like keywords?
16:26	sdegutis	That would explain why you can't just do (f "hello") in OP's original e.g.
16:26	cark	,('hello {'hello "hello"})
16:26	clojurebot	"hello"
16:26	sdegutis	Okay that makes sense now.
16:27	stuartsierra	I don't think that's promised.
16:27	sdegutis	stuartsierra: better? ##(promise ('hello {'hello "hello"}))
16:27	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$promise
16:27	cark	stuartsierra: you mean this symbol behaviour is unspecified ?
16:28	stuartsierra	I'm not sure.
16:28	stuartsierra	It's been that way since 2008 at least.
16:29	sdegutis	Well, the great mystery is solved. Time to quit my job and move to the sunny islands.
16:29	shaungilchrist	bobajett: (let [f (resolve 'print)] (f "hello"))
16:29	stuartsierra	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/commit/3b7c161286fd469857ff66013f785bef742e3b07
16:29	cark	ah back in the days, we were young, ritch's hair was seemingly alive
16:30	bobajett	I guess Im trying to convert this lisp code into clojure and looking for the clojure way to do it: (let ((f '+)) (funcall f 1 2)) -> 3
16:30	bobajett	shaungilchrist: would that imply lisp's funcall = clojure's resolve?
16:31	sdegutis	bobajett: ##(let [f +] (f 1 2))
16:31	lazybot	⇒ 3
16:31	sdegutis	bobajett: Alternatively, ##(let [f +] (apply f [1 2]))
16:31	lazybot	⇒ 3
16:31	mmitchell	technomancy: Regarding Leiningen and private repos... Is it possible to have Leiningen do a password prompt?
16:32	technomancy	mmitchell: yes, it should prompt for a password on deploy if none is given
16:32	mmitchell	technomancy: cool, so just setting the username in project.clj will trigger that?
16:32	bobajett	sdegutis: but isn't + the actual function itself in your code rather than a symbol? in the lisp code f is a symbol '+ and not the + function itself
16:32	technomancy	mmitchell: prompting for a password on reads I don't think is supported; I believe it would be too tedious.
16:32	sdegutis	bobajett: Yes, but I don't see how that matters. What is the higher-level goal you're trying to accomplish?
16:33	sdegutis	bobajett: You may want the var, which is Clojure's rough analogy to CL's symbol.
16:33	technomancy	bobajett: funcall does what clojure's resolve does, but also does more
16:33	sdegutis	bobajett: ##(let [f #'+] (f 1 2))
16:33	lazybot	⇒ 3
16:35	shaungilchrist	but for the sake of insanity: (defn funcall [x & args] (apply (resolve x) args))
16:35	shaungilchrist	"one crazy trick that other clojure developers hate"
16:35	sdegutis	Oops sorry, it was actually streetlight-lit rain.
16:36	dsrx	shaungilchrist: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeoLcheCAAAiftC.png
16:36	sdegutis	"Clojure devs hate him! Transliterate your Common Lisp code in 21 days with this one weird function."
16:37	bobajett	sdegutis: Im working through The Little Schemer and they're trying to write a function like (filter your-test some-list) and trying to show that you can set your-test to some symbol and the definition of filter can just apply it via (your-test args)
16:37	sdegutis	ztellman: add that one to your stack
16:37	shaungilchrist	hahah
16:37	ztellman	ha
16:37	bobajett	technomancy: thanks! got it
16:39	mmitchell	technomancy: So for this: ":username :env/archiva_username" - Leiningen will look in the ENV for ARCHIVA_USERNAME?
16:40	mmitchell	technomancy: OK got it! It looks for an upper-cased version of :env/foobar, cool.
16:42	technomancy	right
16:43	gfredericks	access a value in your map with this one weird keyword
16:44	nwolfe	exit
16:44	ztellman	gfredericks: https://twitter.com/ztellman/status/368080217761251328
16:48	sdegutis	Might try out ClojureCLR soon.
16:56	ztellman	sdegutis: is that still alive and kicking?
16:56	sdegutis	no idea, but i hope so
16:56	sdegutis	last commit was 2 months ago, so maybe? https://github.com/clojure/clojure-clr/commits/master
17:01	xnil	Is it possible to do (case (type something) java.lang.SomeType return-value-1 java.lang.SomeOtherType return-value-2)
17:02	sdegutis	xnil: probably, since case just needs compile-time values
17:02	hiredman	no, java.lang.SomeOtherType is not a read time constant
17:02	sdegutis	,(case (type "foo") java.lang.String 3 java.lang.Integer 4)
17:02	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching clause: class java.lang.String>
17:02	sdegutis	Oh.
17:02	hiredman	at read time it is a symbol that later is resolved to an instance of a class
17:03	xnil	Then how may I do what I'm trying to do?
17:03	sdegutis	xnil: cond
17:03	hiredman	(instance of the class Class)
17:03	xnil	ah okay
17:03	xnil	thanks
17:03	sdegutis	xnil: or use a hash-map and look it up
17:03	xnil	sdegutis: oh, i can use these as keys
17:04	sdegutis	Or you could make an RPC call to LaaS (lookups as a service)
17:04	xnil	i like the hash-map idea
17:04	sdegutis	I had a dream this morning where Apple and MS started DaaS (drawings as a service) as a new way to create GUI apps.
17:04	sdegutis	Basically you just draw the app you want on paper and mail it to them, and they make it for you.
17:05	sdegutis	I think that's the direction Apple's going.
17:05	fowlslegs	l
17:06	teslanick	This sounds like a great idea. They could put all those apps into a category on their respective app stores that I would never have to look at.
17:06	teslanick	"Crap we built with the GUI builders in our IDE, then submitted to the app store."
17:06	sdegutis	It's even easier and cheaper than using Interface Builder OR Storyboards, since you only need a pencil and paper.
17:08	teslanick	Looking at my phone homescreen, all of the apps on it are either Apple-made, or (to one degree or another) ignore the cocoa touch UI
17:08	teslanick	Except fucking Alien Blue. Shows how much time I spend on Reddit.
17:11	sdegutis	Woo, just found a new alternative to IRC: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7147396
17:21	gfredericks	sdegutis: it links back to the hacker news homepage? is this some joke I don't get?
17:21	sdegutis	yes
17:21	sdegutis	gfredericks: it's a bad joke
17:21	sdegutis	I never learned how to make good noes.
17:21	sdegutis	*ones
17:22	gfredericks	I've made at least a hundred bad jokes in this channel
17:22	gfredericks	just this week
17:22	sdegutis	gfredericks: impressive
17:23	AeroNotix	For one of my projects lein uberjar doesn't finish
17:23	AeroNotix	it's a project with a -main function, AOT is skipped for this file.
17:38	mmitchell	technomancy: Hey, I'm attempting to use encrypted credentials but getting this error, have you seen this before? Could not decrypt credentials from ~/.lein/credentials.clj.gpg
17:38	mmitchell	gpg: can't query passphrase in batch mode
17:38	mmitchell	gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available
17:41	mmitchell	technomancy: what's weird is that "gpg -d" successfully decrypts my credentials.clj.gpg file
17:42	technomancy	mmitchell: hm; not sure what's going on there
17:43	technomancy	it should prompt you
17:43	mmitchell	technomancy: oh, I'm using gpg v 1.4.16 -- do I need >= 2 ?
17:43	mmitchell	it's the stock mac gpg
17:45	AeroNotix	https://github.com/AeroNotix/pismo
17:47	technomancy	mmitchell: there's a stock mac gpg?
17:47	technomancy	I use 1.4 myself but I know lots of people use 2
17:48	mmitchell	technomancy: oh really? Weird, yes it came with my mac
17:52	Raynes	technomancy: I like the reds.
17:52	Raynes	They are quite suitable.
17:53	technomancy	glad to hear it =)
17:54	technomancy	I just discovered this project yesterday and have been unable to get it out of my head http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48718
17:54	technomancy	kind of tempted to build another mech keyboard that's tiny so I can have one for home and one for the road
17:56	egghead	clojure.core.async.impl.timers.TimeoutQueueEntry cannot be cast to clojure.core.async.impl.timers.TimeoutQueueEntry
17:56	egghead	WELP
17:56	technomancy	clojurebot: we warned you about records
17:56	clojurebot	I don't understand.
17:56	technomancy	hrm; forgot the exact words
18:01	Raynes	technomancy: I think the reason that I'm cool with reds is because I pretty much pound on my keyboard.
18:01	Raynes	So I always bottom out anywyas.
18:01	rasmusto	browns are the coolest
18:01	Raynes	anyways*
18:01	Raynes	technomancy: Also, these are 100% definitely quieter than browns.
18:01	Raynes	technomancy: I place a keyboard with browns side by side with it.
18:01	technomancy	Raynes: a das?
18:02	Raynes	The keyboard with browns wasn't a das, but why would it matter?
18:02	technomancy	I literally have a red switch next to a brown switch on the board I'm using right now and can't tell the difference in sound
18:02	technomancy	well, plate-mounted switches are going to sound different from PCB-mounted ones, for starters
18:02	technomancy	different placing of the circuit board will absorb the sound different wais
18:02	Raynes	technomancy: The keys on the red das are designed differently than the rest of the das line.
18:03	Raynes	So perhaps that makes it seem quieter?
18:03	technomancy	could be, yeah
18:03	rasmusto	some people do that o-ring mod for bottoming out
18:03	AeroNotix	Oooo I'm in the market few a new keyboard. I've got a Cherry G80 at the moment, previously had a Unicomp Customizer.
18:03	rasmusto	im using a hhkb lite 2 that I stole off an oscilloscope
18:06	akurilin	Putting my vote in favor of Realforce. Been using one for 3+ years.
18:06	rasmusto	those are super top-end right? like $300?
18:07	akurilin	Yeah.
18:07	akurilin	A bit cheaper these days.
18:07	rasmusto	I'll have to try one out at best buy sometime :p
18:07	akurilin	elitekeyboards.com I think has them for 240
18:07	akurilin	Yeah I don't think you can find them at a store, they're imported from Japan.
18:07	akurilin	Could be wrong though.
18:07	rasmusto	I was joking a bit :)
18:07	AeroNotix	Heathens and your tenkeyless boards
18:08	rasmusto	AeroNotix: tenkeyless "otaku" keyboardss*
18:08	akurilin	rasmusto: I get it now, sorry :P
18:08	AeroNotix	rasmusto san
18:08	AeroNotix	so lame
18:08	AeroNotix	hoi hoi me so korea
18:08	akurilin	AeroNotix: I used to hate it at first, then I got used to using the qwerty digits.
18:08	AeroNotix	qwerty digits, as in you don't even have the 1-9 keys?
18:08	rasmusto	I still have a printout of programmer dvorak in my drawer
18:09	akurilin	AeroNotix: I mean the regular digit keys, as opposed to the keypad
18:09	RickInAtlanta	there is a programmer dvorak?
18:09	akurilin	Used to love the keypad on my natural ergonomics 4000
18:10	rasmusto	RickInAtlanta: it's dvorak with a few of the symbols moved around, and you have to shift+1 to get digits from up there
18:10	akurilin	The leatherette on those things, yum.
18:10	rasmusto	RickInAtlanta: and it does 1234567890 -> 67584839201 or something weird
18:10	AeroNotix	so lame
18:11	RickInAtlanta	wow, I dont' understand reordering the numbers
18:11	rasmusto	paredit makes programmer dvorak obsolete
18:11	rasmusto	RickInAtlanta: yeah, it's done under the assumption that you use the lower digits more frequently, so you don't have to use your pinky
18:11	technomancy	I was shifting around the layout on my ergodox a couple times a day for the first week or so
18:12	TimMc	Brown? Red? What?
18:12	TimMc	rasmusto: I use a right-handed mouse with my left hand.
18:12	rasmusto	brown feels like a muddy version of blue
18:12	technomancy	TimMc: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Brown
18:12	RickInAtlanta	technomancy: i never heard of ergodox until you mentioned it yesterday. My first thought was "I could have dvorak on my laptop"
18:12	rasmusto	TimMc: I used my g5 wrong-handed for a while, wasn't fun
18:13	technomancy	RickInAtlanta: firmware-level turns out to be less convenient than it sounds unless you forgo the internal keyboard of your laptop entirel
18:13	technomancy	y
18:14	RickInAtlanta	I suppose the easy solution would be to make new labels for my keys and use mapping at the os level.
18:14	rasmusto	RickInAtlanta: check out "otaku" keyboards (no labels haha)
18:15	rasmusto	RickInAtlanta: don't actually, I regret it everytime I have to type in a passphrase
18:15	RickInAtlanta	rasmusto: that is much better than wrong labels
18:15	RickInAtlanta	picture password!
18:16	dkinzer	I have a Dell Model:SK8115 (not sure if it's mechanical or not, but it has all the keys I need. Oh, and it says in the in small print (Made in China).
18:17	RickInAtlanta	canadian language keyboard???
18:17	lazybot	RickInAtlanta: How could that be wrong?
18:18	sdegutis	Tip of the day: You can use two :as clauses when destructuring a map, one to get specific keys and one to name the map itself.
18:18	TimMc	technomancy: I... I see.
18:18	rasmusto	sdegutis: can you do that with :keys as well?
18:18	technomancy	TimMc: blues for life though, natch
18:19	rasmusto	technomancy: how's the tinnitus?
18:19	technomancy	rasmusto: glorious
18:19	sdegutis	I personally do (POST "/whatever" [param1 param2 :as {:keys [db user]} :as request] ...)
18:19	rasmusto	technomancy: <3
18:19	sdegutis	... with some middleware to wrap the request with a DB instance and assoc a user if you're logged in.
18:21	rasmusto	,(let [foo :as {:keys [a b]} {:a 1 :b 2}] [a b foo])
18:21	clojurebot	[1 2 :as]
18:21	rasmusto	oh, whoops
18:23	sdegutis	Sorry, wasn't trying to kill the conversation, just felt the need to projectile-vomit that code snippet into the channel.
18:23	sdegutis	I think that'll be my new verb in place of "offer" or "throw out there".
18:24	rasmusto	sdegutis: i confused myself, what's the :as getting bindings from?
18:24	rasmusto	param2?
18:24	sdegutis	,(let [{:keys [a b] :as m} {:a 1 :b 2}] [a b m])
18:24	clojurebot	[1 2 {:a 1, :b 2}]
18:25	rasmusto	sdegutis: it looked like you were using :as outside of a map destructuring though
18:25	sdegutis	rasmusto: That's part of Compojure.
18:25	rasmusto	sdegutis: ahhh, gotcha.
18:25	sdegutis	Thank/blame weavejester for that.
18:25	rasmusto	I'm just unfamiliar is all.
18:26	sdegutis	Although he's never around. Out rakin the big bucks in. http://bit.ly/1ffUZuq
18:34	dkinzer	quit
18:34	dkinzer	oops..
18:52	sritchie	any core.typed + emacs users in the house?
18:52	sritchie	looking for workflow advice
18:56	technomancy	sritchie: I don't use it, but I have opinions on how it should be used, does that count? =)
18:57	sritchie	haha, maybe even more so
18:57	technomancy	that is, I have ideas of how to build commands that you invoke from your editor but are implemented server-side
18:57	sritchie	I'm interested in the techtonic ideal
18:58	technomancy	actually I wrote most of my thoughts up here: http://p.hagelb.org/clojurewest-2014.org.html
18:58	technomancy	tl;dr: with an agreed-upon convention for how to annotate vars, you can construct editor commands which feel first-class as if they were written in elisp, vimscript, etc but are actually pure-clojure
18:59	technomancy	and this can help you avoid re-inventing the wheel for every editor
18:59	technomancy	as well as letting you skip out on writing a bunch of elisp
18:59	sritchie	yeah man, I'm on board
18:59	technomancy	come see my talk, if it gets accepted =)
19:01	rasmusto	technomancy: at /west?
19:01	rasmusto	oh nm, saw the url
19:01	technomancy	yeap
19:01	sritchie	this clearly feels like the right approach for evaluating type-annotated code via emacs
19:02	sritchie	technomancy: the current lein plugin runs the "compiler" as if it was a block of unit tests, it seems
19:03	technomancy	I don't think this should be a plugin
19:03	technomancy	for basically this reason; not having it available in the repl is silly
19:06	akurilin	Is there a general pattern out there for retrying SQL transactions? Do you just give yourself a max num of tries / timeout period and hammer the DB until the transaction goes through?
19:08	sritchie	technomancy: yes
19:09	sritchie	technomancy: I guess :injections could call check-ns?
19:09	technomancy	learned that lesson the hard way with lein test
19:10	sritchie	still hackish
19:10	technomancy	sritchie: once it's a proper dependency yo ushould just use an :alias to lein run -m whatever.typed
19:10	sritchie	sure, I meant if I wanted to run the checker every time I evaluated anything in the project
19:11	technomancy	oh hrm. every time you evaluate anything?
19:11	sritchie	I'm using Schema really heavily now; the runtime checking sort of gets at the feel of the core.typed repl integration you're talking about
19:11	technomancy	you could use :prep-tasks to invoke it on every lein invocation
19:11	sritchie	the same way the compiler type checks on every evaluation in a typed lang
19:12	sritchie	technomancy: otherwise, no instant feedback on type signatures
19:12	technomancy	yeah, you would need an nrepl middleware for that
19:23	_eric	if I had an array of maps (like you would often get from a JSON API that lists things)
19:23	_eric	is there an easy way to pluck out two things from the map and turn the whole thing into a mapping of one of those values to the other?
19:23	_eric	(like a name to ID lookup table)
19:24	aperiodic	(into {} (for [{:keys [name id]} maps] [name id]))?
19:25	technomancy	,(map (comp (partial into {}) (juxt :k :v)) [{:k 1 :v 2} {:k 3 :v 4} {:k 5 :v 6}])
19:25	clojurebot	#<ExceptionInfo clojure.lang.ExceptionInfo: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long {:instance 1}>
19:25	technomancy	dang it
19:25	_eric	sweet
19:26	x^2	hey guys, simple question
19:26	technomancy	,(map (comp (partial apply hash-map) (juxt :k :v)) [{:k 1 :v 2} {:k 3 :v 4} {:k 5 :v 6}])
19:26	clojurebot	({1 2} {3 4} {5 6})
19:26	x^2	if i am using a sequence, like (apply + [1 2 3 4 5])
19:26	_eric	technomancy: I'm looking to create a single map
19:26	x^2	is there any effective difference between that and (apply + '(1 2 3 4 5))?
19:26	x^2	or is it just convention
19:27	x^2	they seem to work the same
19:27	technomancy	_eric: gotcha; you'd need to either apply merge or switch to a reduce
19:28	technomancy	x^2: they work the same if the list contains nothing but literals
19:28	technomancy	x^2: if you have an expressions that evaluates to something else, they are different
19:28	x^2	okay that makes sense
19:28	technomancy	,(apply + '(1 2 3 (+ 3 4))) ;frinstance, this won't work
19:28	x^2	so if i have expression that evaluate to something else i want to use '(stuff)
19:28	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
19:28	AeroNotix	is there something like Erlang's make_ref() ?
19:28	x^2	right?
19:29	x^2	oh
19:29	technomancy	no, you would use a vector if you didn't want to prevent evaluation
19:29	aperiodic	,(into {} (map (juxt :k :v) [{:k 1 :v 2} {:k 3 :v 4}]))
19:29	clojurebot	{1 2, 3 4}
19:30	technomancy	oh, much nicer
19:30	x^2	user=> (apply + [1 2 (+ 1 2)])
19:30	x^2	6
19:30	x^2	that works
19:30	x^2	is that the standard way of doingi t?
19:30	technomancy	x^2: typically you'd use a vector unless you have a reason not to
19:31	x^2	okay, cool.
19:31	x^2	are there other times when you really should use '(1 2 3) instead?
19:31	technomancy	sure, to prevent evaluation
19:33	technomancy	or if you want to build up a list from the head; you can only efficiently grow a vector at the tail
19:34	x^2	interesting
19:34	x^2	i've just been playing with REPL a lot while i read this book, but i am trying to actually write something in clojure
19:38	tmciver	If anyone is interested in a Clojure job in Framingham, Massachusetts, feel free to PM me.
19:38	devn	tmciver: on site?
19:39	AeroNotix	,(. clojure.lang.RT (nextID))
19:39	clojurebot	27
19:43	yesac	howdy folks
19:43	yesac	I was wondering if anyone has experience or tips for clojure - scala interop
19:44	yesac	more precisely, on using scala libraries in cojure
19:44	bbloom	yesac: first, you need to be able to use scala libraries from java.... which it turns out, isn't easy
19:44	yesac	tell me about it
19:45	bbloom	yesac: https://issues.scala-lang.org/browse/SI-4389
19:45	bbloom	yesac: other than that, it works exactly like calling java code
19:45	bbloom	if possible, wrap the scala code in a lowest-common-denominator java interface, then call that
19:46	yesac	the library in question is https://github.com/snowplow/referer-parser/blob/master/java-scala/README.md
19:46	yesac	i'm half tempted to take the python port and hack it in jython
19:47	yesac	in this particular case, the interface is useable, it's just very ugly
19:47	yesac	a lot of boilerplate is required because the scala None class is truthy in clojure
19:47	bbloom	yesac: um, that says java-scala
19:47	bbloom	it's written in java and is wrapped by scala
19:48	bbloom	yesac: just use the java classes directly
19:48	noonian	lol, it should be pretty straightforward to write that java usage example in clojure
19:48	yesac	argh
19:48	yesac	you are so right
19:48	yesac	what the hell was I thinking this morning?
19:48	yesac	i guess I scrolled down to the Scala example. fun.
19:48	bbloom	....
19:49	noonian	i think that is the base java classes, it's called java/scala because it is the java and scala interface to referer-parser
20:25	kristof	What?
20:25	clojurebot	What is sampling a random integers betwen 2, 12 s..t. P(X = i) = (7-\|i-7\|)/36
20:26	kristof	A day where bitemyapp isn't even idling?
20:28	devn	heh
20:28	technomancy	one too many senseless NPEs pushed him over the edge
20:28	devn	but you have devn and technomany
20:28	devn	technomancy*
20:28	technomancy	it's OK; I contain multitudes
20:28	devn	we've been idling since practically the beginning
20:29	devn	serious idlers.
20:29	metellus	not that serious, if you're talking
20:29	devn	well, i've been watching the channel all day
20:30	devn	i think i'm allowed a few lines
20:32	kristof	technomancy: Wait, what happened?
20:32	rhg135	idling...
20:32	technomancy	kristof: pure speculation
20:32	kristof	technomancy: Ok.
20:35	akurilin	So it looks like fireplace will wait for the remote command to complete before returning the output of it to the editor. As in, if I want to run a very lengthy operation printing progress as it goes, that won't work with fireplace since it will wait until the very end to return the output.
20:35	akurilin	Is that more or less correct?
20:37	aperiodic	akurilin: that's consistent with my experience, yes. you could try writing progress out to a file and then tailing it in another terminal
20:38	mmitchell	technomancy: What would be the best way to have leiningen pull in username/password (for private repos) from a regular text file? A plugin?
20:38	akurilin	aperiodic: ok cool, thanks for confirming.
20:40	Bronsa	bbloom: btw surprisingly, it's faster to use `~@ than to flatten
20:40	bbloom	Bronsa: huh? how is that possible?
20:41	Bronsa	bbloom: probably because all the `~@ machinery only concats small vectors while flattening has to walk all the bytecode
20:42	bbloom	Bronsa: don't you need to walk all the byte code to output it anyway? you only need one flatten at the top level, right?
20:45	Bronsa	bbloom: right, but I cannot merge the flattening walking and the emit walking otherwise it would not be possible to implement e.g. `omit?` https://github.com/clojure/tools.emitter.jvm/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/emitter/jvm/transform.clj#L56
20:45	bbloom	Bronsa: ... hmm what's this do?
20:45	akurilin	aperiodic: well the workaround I tried was with just using lein repl :connect instead
20:46	akurilin	aperiodic: as in, I'd write / reload the ns in vim and would actually runt he operation in lein
20:46	akurilin	lame but oh well
20:46	Bronsa	bbloom: nothing fancy for now, just a POC. it's a dummy matching on the bytecode to eliminate some no-ops
20:47	bbloom	Bronsa: why can't you do this as part of the same traversal as the flattening?
20:47	bbloom	Bronsa: also, you can use reducers to eliminate a whole bunch of overhead for intermediate structures
20:47	bbloom	Bronsa: that's what i do in fipp & it performs great
20:48	Bronsa	bbloom: say I want to eliminate a double check-cast, if I'm emitting while flattening there's no way to know if the next instruction is a check-cast so that we can avoid emitting the current one
20:48	Bronsa	it would be possible to know if the previous one was a check-cast but at that point it would already have been emitted
20:49	bbloom	Bronsa: there are more peephole optimizations you can do too besides those with lookahead of N=1
20:50	bbloom	Bronsa: look at https://github.com/brandonbloom/transduce
20:50	bbloom	Bronsa: if you your loop variables in the state value of map-state, then you can stitch together the traversals either lazily or with reducers instead of using an eager loop
20:51	timvisher	it looks like ring-serve is no longer supported, what are people using nowadays?
20:51	bbloom	the lazy implementations are easier to read: https://github.com/brandonbloom/transduce/blob/master/src/clojure/transduce/lazy.clj
20:51	bbloom	but the reducers implementations are much faster
20:52	timvisher	i'm specifically trying to start up an nrepl server _and_ a ring server via `lein run`
20:52	timvisher	i used to do that via ring-serve but it depends on a very outdated version of ring-devel
20:52	timvisher	and i use hiccup as well, so they screw eachother
20:52	bbloom	Bronsa: if i'm understanding you and this code right :-P
20:57	Bronsa	bbloom: sorry, internet connection died
20:57	bbloom	Bronsa: what did you get last?
20:58	bbloom	Bronsa: or check logs :-P
20:59	timvisher	ah hah. there is apparently an :nrepl configuration knob in ring nowadays. looks like i can just use that.
20:59	bbloom	Bronsa: lmk when you're caught up :-)
21:03	bbloom	Bronsa: in short, peephole optimizations can be implemented as mapcat-state with reducers & should perform quite well. you can use flatten on the source data, map-state and mapcat-state for optimization passes, then each at the end to call -exec
21:03	bbloom	Bronsa: https://github.com/brandonbloom/fipp/blob/master/src/fipp/printer.clj for an example
21:04	bbloom	Bronsa: anyway, i'm curious how a doseq/emit works without the omit? phase. if that's any faster than all the concats
21:05	Bronsa	bbloom: ok, I see what you mean, that's an interesting approach that I didn't consider
21:06	bbloom	Bronsa: can do much faster too if you give up on the pretense of being functional/pure and expose a "send to next pass" function
21:07	bbloom	Bronsa: which is basically how reducers work internally anyway
21:11	Bronsa	bbloom: I don't have much time in the next few days but I'll think about it & try something out. I like the idea & I can see how it could simplify/speedup things
21:14	bbloom	Bronsa: cool. lmk if i can help
21:18	timvisher	would anyone else expect route params with + in them to have the + be converted to a ` ` character? it seems upgrading ring has stopped that from working as well.
22:34	akurilin	Random question: I'm trying to prevent double-submission of data on my ring app by storing a client-given UUID in redis and checking if it already exists in the application. Prob. of course is that fetch and check is not exactly thread-safe. I could either use redis' transactions or I could use an agent in clojure to something similar.
22:34	akurilin	Should I prefer one or the other?
22:35	rhg135	I'd say do what you know best
22:39	brehaut	akurilin: any reason you cant use the common trick of doing returning a redirect to the same url?
22:40	akurilin	brehaut: do you 302 on a POST kind of thing?
22:40	brehaut	right
22:41	akurilin	In my case this is an iOS app callign into the API, it doesn't really speak redirects.
22:41	brehaut	ah. thats painful
22:41	akurilin	What is speaks very well is submitting shit twice :)
22:42	brehaut	haha
22:42	akurilin	Uhm doesn't look like Carmine does transactions.
22:42	brehaut	and you dont have control over the code to stop it there?
22:43	akurilin	brehaut: I don't because it's the hand of users for now and it might take months before they update versions.
22:43	brehaut	ah :/
22:43	brehaut	its not a restful api is it?
22:43	akurilin	It's REST-style
22:44	akurilin	No HATEOAS or anything of that genre.
22:44	brehaut	yeah
22:45	brehaut	anyway, yeah you want some sort of transactional mechanism for serialize access to the critical region on a per client basis
22:45	akurilin	Yessir.
22:45	akurilin	I was debating between agents and redis transactions.
22:45	brehaut	agents are async so i dont think thats appropriate
22:46	brehaut	because then it wont occur within the same thread as the HTTP response
22:46	akurilin	That's a fair point.
22:46	brehaut	transactional redis would probably work fine
22:46	brehaut	though ive not used it myself
22:48	akurilin	Sounds good, let me try that.
22:48	hiredman	I am just watching a video of a aphyr talk, seeing the word "transactional" just makes me wince now
22:49	brehaut	really?
22:49	akurilin	From a sanity standpoint, if I were to make POSTs idempotent for this one case, I should probably still return a 2xx on the ones that get NOOPed, right?
22:49	brehaut	sure
22:49	brehaut	if its idempotent then its correct to post back the same thing multiple times
22:50	brehaut	anyway i need to empty a garden shed
22:50	akurilin	That and I just don't know what's going to happen on the client if I 4xx :P Thousands of iOS apps dying at once.
23:10	fowlslegs	(loop [result [] x 1 y 5]
23:10	fowlslegs	(if (zero? y)
23:10	fowlslegs	result
23:11	fowlslegs	Sorry that was a mistake
23:13	fowlslegs	Can someone tell me why I'm getting a exception from this http://paste.debian.net/79142/ ?
23:16	fowlslegs	,(loop [result [] x 1] (recur (conj result x) (+ x (last result))))
23:16	clojurebot	#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
23:22	quizdr	,(last [])
23:22	clojurebot	nil
23:22	quizdr	( + 1 nil)
23:22	quizdr	,(+ 1 nil)
23:22	clojurebot	#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
23:23	quizdr	fowlslegs there you go ^
23:23	quizdr	first iteration of loop, the last of result is nil
23:31	technomancy	akurilin: it depends on whether you are load balancing among several server processes
23:31	technomancy	if so you're kinda forced to do it in the DB
23:35	ssafejava	clojurebot: botsnack
23:35	clojurebot	Thanks, but I prefer chocolate
23:37	akurilin	technomancy: from what I can tell, and I don't have too much redis experience so far, I can't actually do any sort fo complex operations on redis itself unless I were to write a sproc with LUA in it. As in, if I want to do "does key exist, does its val match what I see, otherwise update it" atomically.
23:37	akurilin	technomancy: and yes what you said makes complete sense, I could do the above by serializing in clojure, but that'd fall flat on its face in case of multiple instances of the app
23:38	akurilin	at that point I'd have to use stored procedures.
23:39	akurilin	I'm semi-tempted to do this all in clojure and just never expire the keys, since there's a reasonable upper bound for now
23:40	akurilin	I mean, just have a map in clojure and swap it, since for now it's only one server.
23:40	technomancy	just depends how long it will stay that way
23:40	akurilin	technomancy: do you see options outside of sprocs for a multi-server scenario?
23:41	akurilin	or am I correctly reading this?
23:41	bbloom	akurilin: do you have a rough idea of volume of data and traffic?
23:41	akurilin	Yeah. It's low for now.
23:42	bbloom	akurilin: and you plan is redis plus postgres? or just redis or what?
23:42	technomancy	how long is "for now"?
23:42	akurilin	The only reason why I wanted redis was to expire keys when they get old, no other benefit really.
23:42	bbloom	akurilin: do you need that data to be durable?
23:42	akurilin	But that's also a premature optimization.
23:43	akurilin	So essentially the situation is: I want to prevent a double-POST based on who does it and what data is in it. I want to keep when, who and what was POSTed for up to 5 mins to prevent double-submissions.
23:43	bbloom	you can expire stuff in postgres too. just run a cron job w/ a query :-P
23:44	bbloom	if your planned volume is sub a few thousand simultaneous users, just do http://www.brandonbloom.name/blog/2013/06/26/slurp-and-spit/
23:44	technomancy	and you can't use a user-generated UUID as a primary key?
23:44	akurilin	technomancy: not right away because those iOS clients that are makign teh POST will take months to update
23:45	akurilin	If they were web clients I'd have updated their logic in no time.
23:45	akurilin	But with the fact that you're going through app stores and they're K-12 schools, they might be 6mos behind the latest verison.
23:45	akurilin	(which is kind of atrocious, but what you going to do)
23:46	akurilin	bbloom: I'll check that link out, thank you!
23:51	akurilin	bbloom: that's a cool trick!!
23:51	bbloom	akurilin: the only trick is knowing when to go back to basics :-)
23:51	akurilin	I like the part where you make sure the file doesn't get corrupted, that's pretty nifty
23:51	akurilin	In my case I don't need durability, but that's super handy for when I do.
23:51	akurilin	I think raynes also made a lib for making temp files
23:51	akurilin	so the two can probably work in tandem
23:52	bbloom	akurilin: if you don't need durability, don't bring postgres or redis in to it
23:52	bbloom	akurilin: just use memory
23:52	akurilin	bbloom: again, I just wanted to feel good about old keys not staying in forever, but that's also not a big deal at this point
23:52	akurilin	someone write an expiring thread-safe map in clo9jure
23:52	bbloom	akurilin: just run a cleanup task in a timer
23:53	bbloom	just use java.util.Timer
23:54	bbloom	or now i guess ScheduledThreadPoolExecutor :-P
23:56	akurilin	I think mikera was recommending something super basic like (future (loop [] (do-something) (Thread/sleep 20) (when (game-still-running) (recur))))
23:56	bbloom	yeah, that works too lol
23:57	akurilin	There's also TimerTask
23:57	akurilin	I give up on knowing what the java libs offer at this point
23:57	akurilin	I'm sure there's practically everything you'd ever want if you can stomach the naming :P
23:58	bbloom	pretty much
23:58	akurilin	bbloom: would it be heresy to dump that future straight into the namespace as opposed to having it in a "init" function somewhere?
23:58	akurilin	Trying to think of all the ways that'd mess with the state.
23:59	akurilin	On reloads etc.
23:59	akurilin	I imagine reloading the namespace would generate a new future each time
23:59	akurilin	so that'd suck.
23:59	bbloom	akurilin: sure, so what you do is you capture the function in a local and check if it changed, if so, you abort