#clojure – 2013-12-12

2013-12-12

00:08	brainproxy	dnolen: nice
00:09	nonuby	whats the latest solution to the leak in clojure web apps in servlet container (i.e. immutant/jboss), is it safe to use 1.6.0alpha2 if I not in my layers doing any thread local rebinding?
00:09	dnolen	updated gist, https://gist.github.com/swannodette/7915826, boilerplate around pure eliminated, and demonstrates how path information is communicated down the tree
00:35	bitemyapp	arrdem: mumble!
01:00	wei__	started using logback to direct clojure.tools.logging messages to a file, but my "spy" messages disappeared. where does clojure.tools.logging/spy output to?
01:34	hiredman	wei__: I would check your log level setting in logback, spy may use the trace log level
01:34	wei__	hiredman: good call
01:42	sj__	anyone experience parsing xml documents using data.xml?
01:43	sj__	i am relatively new to clojure ańd got stuck a littlebit
01:44	wei__	(inc hiredman)
01:44	hyPiRion	lazybot is dead
01:44	hyPiRion	long live lazybot
01:44	wei__	:(
01:48	Jarda	sj__: it depends on what you need. I've used data.zip combined with data.xml to parse, works great!
01:49	Jarda	sj__: check this answer (not the accepted but underneath) http://stackoverflow.com/a/9595315/270945
01:52	sj__	Jarda: hmm, thanks missed xml-zip, that looks good
01:56	SegFaultAX	hyPiRion: Aww, why's that?
01:57	hyPiRion	SegFaultAX: ask Raynes
01:57	hyPiRion	he's responsible for that thing
01:58	arrdem	Raynes: BOT DOWN
01:58	SegFaultAX	Yay!
01:59	hyPiRion	(inc hiredman)
01:59	lazybot	⇒ 30
01:59	hyPiRion	there we go
02:22	arrdem	(inc Raynes) ;; best bot hearder
02:22	lazybot	⇒ 39
02:26	ddellacosta	bitemyapp, noprompt: I called you out here, but if you don't want me to list your name/link to you let me know: http://davedellacosta.com/cljs-dom-survey
02:27	noprompt	ddellacosta: don't mention my name. anywhere. ever. j/k :P
02:27	noprompt	ddellacosta: hey, hey, i like the new digs!
02:28	noprompt	ddellacosta: nice work!
02:28	ddellacosta	noprompt: haha...well, you never know if people, people can be picky.
02:28	ddellacosta	noprompt: thanks!!
02:28	ddellacosta	noprompt: your feedback definitely helped. :-)
02:28	noprompt	ddellacosta: it looks sharp! clean and easy to read.
02:28	ddellacosta	noprompt: excellent! Just what I was going for.
02:29	noprompt	ughh, i just spent a full hour trying to track down a bug through a maze of speghetti oo javascript.
02:29	ddellacosta	noprompt: ;-(
02:29	ddellacosta	that sucks.
02:29	ddellacosta	noprompt: and, did you track it down?
02:30	noprompt	ddellacosta: yeah. i can't imagine what this guy was thinking.
02:30	ddellacosta	noprompt: yeah, I know how that is...had many a moment like that myself.
02:30	ddellacosta	and unfortunately, probably provoked many a moment like that in the past as well.
02:30	noprompt	literally. ObjA to ObjB to ObjC to ObjC's parent (ObjB)
02:30	ddellacosta	what
02:31	ddellacosta	yikes.
02:31	noprompt	i've never liked OO code that mucks with this.parent
02:31	noprompt	coupled with events and mutable state it's way to fragile.
02:32	ddellacosta	noprompt: if you are mucking with this.parent, doesn't it indicate that that shouldn't be inheriting from the parent in the first place? Not that I'm much good as an OO architect. Have never been able to feel grounded writing OO code.
02:32	noprompt	the funny part was the bug occured when i deleted a single line of code entirely somwhere else in the codebase.
02:32	ddellacosta	ahahaha...sob
02:33	noprompt	ddellacosta: basically in this case the child class is listening for events on the parent class and then doing something.
02:33	ddellacosta	hmm.
02:33	wei__	trying to figure out how to deserialize a json to a map which originally had keyword values. anyone have a scheme to distinguish string values and keyword values in json?
02:34	ddellacosta	wei__: so, the JSON originally was a map once upon a time? do you have any flexibility in terms of converting to EDN vs. JSON?
02:34	noprompt	ddellacosta: my sentiment exactly. it seems to me if one were going to architect a system like that the parent should be responsible for sending messages to it's children.
02:35	ddellacosta	noprompt: yeah, I mean, I don't know the details so I can't comment, but that seems natural to me...
02:35	noprompt	ddellacosta: a little context; i'm rewriting a large messy js front end in cljs. :)
02:35	gws	wei__: https://github.com/clojure/data.json has a way for you to specify a :key-fn keyword that may be what you want?
02:35	ddellacosta	noprompt: well, at least you have something nice to look forward to. :-)
02:36	noprompt	ddellacosta: i showed the other devs today the work i'd been doing the past couple weeks and they looked so happy. (these are the backend guys)
02:36	ddellacosta	noprompt: excellent. Is it Clojure on the back-end too?
02:36	noprompt	ddellacosta: sadly no. it's python. :(
02:36	ddellacosta	noprompt: well, could be worse...haha. ;-)
02:37	noprompt	ddellacosta: that's certainly true. it's cool though cause they've set the api in the development branch to send me edn. :)
02:37	ddellacosta	noprompt: oh, that's super cool--sounds like they are pretty receptive to Clojure then.
02:39	noprompt	ddellacosta: not entirely, but they certainly agree with me raw javascript can be a rat's nest.
02:39	ddellacosta	gotcha.
02:39	ddellacosta	noprompt: well, the indoctrination has to start somewhere.
02:40	noprompt	ddellacosta: it's funny though cause i've been able to take control over almost all of the front-end story simply with leiningen and clojurescript.
02:40	ddellacosta	noprompt: are you the only/main front-end dev?
02:40	noprompt	ddellacosta: lein-npm can fetch bower dependencies now >:)
02:41	noprompt	ddellacosta: sadly, yes. and the front-end is the most complex part of it. :\|
02:41	ddellacosta	noprompt: woah, that is cool...embarassingly, I've never heard of lein-npm until this moment... ;-p
02:41	ddellacosta	oh, it's bodil's work, cool
02:42	noprompt	ddellacosta: it's pretty sweet but she hasn't pushed the new code to clojars so the README is lying a bit.
02:42	ddellacosta	noprompt: ah, okay
02:42	noprompt	ddellacosta: i just created my own version of it [noprompt/lein-npm "0.1.1"]
02:43	ddellacosta	noprompt: weeel then maybe I'll sneak a look at yours then
02:43	noprompt	ddellacosta: all i did was clone the repo as it is now, bump the version, and push to clojars.
02:44	ddellacosta	alright, I really gotta do some more work...be back. Thanks again noprompt !
02:45	noprompt	ddellacosta: you bet!
03:10	bitemyapp	noprompt: yeah, I hate it too.
03:11	noprompt	bitemyapp: dude, i just summed it up with that last tweet.
03:11	noprompt	bitemyapp: in context, that's twitter gold.
03:11	noprompt	haha
03:11	noprompt	lol "Don't call your parents. They'll call you."
03:11	bitemyapp	noprompt: nice.
03:11	noprompt	hahahhaha
03:12	noprompt	bitemyapp: no shit it's true. if i don't call my mom and dad after a week, they call me. really.
03:13	bitemyapp	noprompt: my parents call me once every month or two.
03:13	noprompt	bitemyapp: dude, i just spent hour trying to figure out this rediculous bug.
03:13	bitemyapp	noprompt: super related?
03:14	bitemyapp	I was talking to a coworker today about how super and class-based views make Django code impossible to understand or modify.
03:14	bitemyapp	he was as angry as myself about it :(
03:14	noprompt	bitemyapp: i'll recap. ObjA -> ObjB -> ObjC -> this.parent.on(event, f, this)
03:14	noprompt	i'm using the -> here to represent flow.
03:15	noprompt	bitemyapp: that's actually kind of funny because one of the django guys i work with was expressing the exact same pain.
03:18	rurumate	whoa, cascalog is really high level stuff
03:18	bitemyapp	rurumate: yep, it's awesome.
03:19	noprompt	bitemyapp: this idea of putting state (when you need it) behind a pub/sub on the client side is turning out to be a really clean way to manage app state.
03:19	rurumate	bitemyapp: but how to pass parameters/data to jobs, what I would normally do via JobConf?
03:21	noprompt	bitemyapp: it's like having a small evented document database.
03:21	seriously_random	how do I tell if difference in sorted sequence between each adjacent element is 1? e.g. [1 2 3] and not [1 2 4]
03:22	bitemyapp	rurumate: data would be on HDFS, no?
03:23	bitemyapp	noprompt: hrm.
03:23	bitemyapp	seriously_random: fold/reduce + reduced
03:23	hyPiRion	,(every? #(= 1 (- %2 %)) (partition 2 1 [1 2 3])) ; seriously_random
03:23	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: sandbox/eval27/fn--28>
03:23	bitemyapp	hyPiRion: god dammit
03:23	noprompt	:\|
03:23	noprompt	lol
03:23	noprompt	:)
03:23	bitemyapp	I knew a solution with partition was coming.
03:24	logic_prog	http://digitalocean.com/pricing <-- how is digital ocean managing to offer services cheaper than aws?
03:24	logic_prog	anyoe hosted clojure apps on digital ocean?
03:24	bitemyapp	logic_prog: AWS is massively over-priced.
03:24	noprompt	,(partition 2 1 [1 2 3])
03:24	clojurebot	((1 2) (2 3))
03:24	hyPiRion	,(every? (fn [[a b]] (= 1 (- b a)) (partition 2 1 [1 2 3])) ; <- working ?
03:24	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
03:24	bitemyapp	logic_prog: I do.
03:24	hyPiRion	gahd
03:24	arrdem	,(as-> [1 2 3] s (map (fn [x y] (<= y (inc x))) s (rest s)) (reduce and s))
03:24	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/and, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
03:24	noprompt	ah that's what it was.
03:24	arrdem	FUUUUUU
03:24	hyPiRion	,(every? (fn [[a b]] (= 1 (- b a))) (partition 2 1 [1 2 3]))
03:24	logic_prog	bitemyapp: do you have a blog post / documentation / something I can read?
03:24	clojurebot	true
03:24	bitemyapp	arrdem: NO SOUP FOR YOU
03:24	Apage43	(reduce (fn [p i] (if (= 1 (- i p)) i (reduced :nope))) [1 2 3 4 5 6])
03:24	hyPiRion	there we go.
03:24	Apage43	,(reduce (fn [p i] (if (= 1 (- i p)) i (reduced :nope))) [1 2 3 4 5 6])
03:24	clojurebot	6
03:24	Apage43	,(reduce (fn [p i] (if (= 1 (- i p)) i (reduced :nope))) [1 2 3 4 5 6 8])
03:24	clojurebot	:nope
03:25	arrdem	goddamnit Apage43
03:25	bitemyapp	logic_prog: bitemyapp.com + gitub.com/bitemyapp/ - nothing specific to DigitalOcean, they're just a VPS provider.
03:25	Apage43	<3
03:25	bitemyapp	Apage43 has defeated you all.
03:25	noprompt	,(map #(apply -) (partition 2 1 [1 2 3]))
03:25	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: sandbox/eval204/fn--205>
03:25	arrdem	(inc Apage43)
03:25	lazybot	⇒ 10
03:25	bitemyapp	(inc arrdem)
03:25	lazybot	⇒ 12
03:25	noprompt	oh read the question wrong
03:26	bitemyapp	,(map (partial apply -) (partition 2 1 [1 2 3]))
03:26	clojurebot	(-1 -1)
03:26	bitemyapp	noprompt: yours could be a stepping-stone.
03:27	AWizzArd	,(let [x [1 2 3 4 5 7]] (clojure.set/difference (set (range 1 (inc (last x)))) (set x)))
03:27	hyPiRion	,(every? #(= % 1) (map #(apply - %) (partition 2 1 (rseq [1 2 3]))))
03:27	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.set, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
03:27	clojurebot	true
03:27	hyPiRion	but then we're moving into obscure territory
03:27	AWizzArd	^^
03:29	AWizzArd	Maybe a version with reducers...
03:29	Apage43	s/reduce/fold ^^
03:29	noprompt	bitemyapp: i picked up a bit of a buzz somehow after finding that bug.
03:30	noprompt	honestly, beer, i don't know how it happened.
03:30	Apage43	actually no, can't just fold that
03:30	Apage43	bleh =P
03:30	rurumate	'(pr-str {"1" 2 "2" 2})
03:30	rurumate	,(pr-str {"1" 2 "2" 2})
03:30	clojurebot	"{\"1\" 2, \"2\" 2}"
03:31	rurumate	how to prevent pr-str from printing commas? it's bloating my files..
03:31	seriously_random	hyPiRion, how about I check the difference between min and max value of [1 2 3] and see that frequencies max value is 1?
03:31	Apage43	maybe use https://github.com/clojure/data.fressian if you need something compact
03:32	hyPiRion	seriously_random: that's also a possibility
03:32	Apage43	I like frequencies as an anagram checker
03:33	Apage43	,(let [anagram? (fn [a b] (= (frequencies a) (frequencies b)))] (map anagram? ["fred" "meat" "what"] ["derp" "team" "thaw"]))
03:33	clojurebot	(false true true)
03:34	noprompt	,(clojure.string/replace (pr-str {"1" 2 "2" 2}) #"," " ")
03:34	clojurebot	"{\"1\" 2 \"2\" 2}"
03:34	noprompt	:P
03:35	noprompt	rurumate: ^^
03:39	gws	,(let [c [1 2 3 4]] (every? #(= 1 %) (map #(- %2 %) c (drop 1 c))))
03:39	clojurebot	true
03:41	hyPiRion	I'm sometimes a bit angry that every? isn't variadic
03:44	Apage43	hyPiRion: would it concat its args?
03:44	hyPiRion	Apage43: no, just work like map
03:44	Apage43	ah
03:44	hyPiRion	e.g. (map + [1 2 3] [1 2 3]) => (2 4 6), (every? = [1 2 3] [1 2 3]) => true
03:46	bitemyapp	arrdem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45lB-fyB87Y
03:53	ucb	g'day all
03:57	bitemyapp	ucb: hi!
03:58	ucb	bitemyapp: !!
04:02	atyz	Anyone know how I can add a key to a map that will match based on a regex?
04:04	arrdem	bitemyapp: so one thing I was pondering during my spindown ritual...
04:04	arrdem	bitemyapp: your "duel" system needs to prevent ties
04:04	arrdem	bitemyapp: it shouldn't be possible for two players to contest the state indefinitely.
04:06	arrdem	bitemyapp: one solution is to have ressonance in the environment state, which feeds upon itself and becomes chaotic/unstable (but still deterministic) after some finite N ticks
04:06	bitemyapp	arrdem: mana/willpower?
04:07	bitemyapp	arrdem: you can cast spells that affect more state, but drain your ability to cast spells faster, forcing you balance slow/steady vs. burst play?
04:07	bitemyapp	you to*
04:07	arrdem	sure... but I'm saying that it should be impossible for two players both playing rationally along a slow and steady course to perfectly contest forever.
04:08	bitemyapp	arrdem: the only way to accomplish that would be to time their mana running out at exact intervals
04:09	bitemyapp	arrdem: ordinarily they'd cast spells of varying cost and create gaps for the other person to attack or manipulate state uncontested.
04:11	arrdem	bitemyapp: right. what I'm proposing is that the state slowly becomes nonsteady. if A and B make moves a, ^a then the state is unchanged in the trivial model. but if the state devolves of it's own occord and introduces some neutral imballancing factor then it becomes impossible (or at least bloody hard) for humans to come up with a, ^a
04:12	arrdem	bitemyapp: think of the battle field as an echo chamber that retains some energy slowly becomming resonant in conflict with both players
04:13	bitemyapp	arrdem: I like it. It could be like a travelling wave
04:13	bitemyapp	arrdem: adding "energy" to the wave, almost like a motorcycle losing control, makes it more violent.
04:13	bitemyapp	arrdem: could lead to some exciting duels where they sustain a fight until it completely explodes in one of their faces.
04:13	bitemyapp	arrdem: you are really good at this :D
04:14	arrdem	bitemyapp: EXACTLY. this harmonic will eventually backfire on and crush someone while staying deterministic.
04:14	seriously_random	how do I write: (let [x] be (this) on_condition (condition) else let [x] be (other))
04:15	arrdem	(let [x (if (condition) this other)] .. )
04:43	rurumate	is there a standard way to pretty-print the :out field from a clojure.java.shell/sh call?
04:45	rurumate	it looks like this: (clojure.java.shell/sh "ls") -> "etc\nlog\nproject.clj\nproject.clj~\nsrc\ntarget\n
04:50	hyPiRion	just call println
04:56	divyansr	what does #^ symbol mean in argument list of function ?
04:59	ucb	bitemyapp: oh! forgot to give you and update on trafficmigrationlols
04:59	ucb	bitemyapp: turns out that all the shittyness was due to graphite
05:00	rurumate	hyPiRion: thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for
05:06	daGrevis	does lein run automatically gets all dependencies specified in project.clj?
05:07	divyansr	what does #^ symbol means ?
05:14	scottj	divyansr: old syntax for ^
05:15	divyansr	Thanks ! In fact I was looking for compojure old commits and puzzled by #^ :)
05:21	makkalot	hi, i'm trying to write a macro in clojurescript : http://pastebin.com/Rd2Z5jE7 when i call it i see every time it returns nil to my called function , any ideas ?
05:26	makkalot	nevermind i figure it out :P
05:26	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
05:27	rurumate	what's observable-fn?
05:27	makkalot	rurumate, it is my custom fn
05:28	rurumate	makkalot: where is it defined?
05:28	makkalot	in .cljs file in same ns
05:28	makkalot	rurumate, macro is in clj
05:30	makkalot	btw, is there a way to run clsjbuild test without compiling
05:30	rurumate	makkalot: oh, I see. macro doesn't care what it is, it just returns the symbol
05:31	rurumate	makkalot: I think munged-symbol cannot be private
05:31	rurumate	macros can only use public functions
05:31	makkalot	rurumate, actually it is ok
05:31	makkalot	rurumate, works now, just had to change result of mungle to be str
05:32	makkalot	because that variable was not exsitng
05:32	rurumate	cool
06:15	FragDoctor	Hi
06:16	ucb	say I want to include lib1 "0.0.1" and lib2 "0.0.1", how can I avoid repeating the "0.0.1" and instead provide a named constant?
06:16	ucb	I tried (def ver "0.0.1") before defproject but that didn't work :(
06:24	clgv	ucb: you can try to use ~ver inside the project map. but it might not work for the dependency vectory
06:24	clgv	*s
06:24	ucb	ah, gotcha
06:33	seriously_random	how does "predicate" function know about a-map, which isn't in its parameters?
06:33	seriously_random	oops, http://pastebin.com/PQn35sEf
06:41	ucb	seriously_random: key->predicate returns a function. This function is called by filter with each map. That's how a-map gets bound to each map.
06:47	pcn	Good morning
06:57	dav_	gen-class continues to baffle me. I have this very simple class which I'm able to instantiate, but cannot call any methods.. any ideas?
06:57	dav_	source is here: https://github.com/obadz/xlloop-clojure/blob/master/src/xlloop_clojure/funs.clj
06:58	dav_	(.myTest (xlloop.funs.)) => IllegalArgumentException No matching field found: myTest for class xlloop.funs clojure.lang.Reflector.getInstanceField (Reflector.java:271)
07:02	pcn	I'd like to have an async service that writes all output to a single file. Does anyone have any examples of something like this?
07:03	ohpauleez	pcn: You want an HTTP service, that writes all of its responses to a file (like a journal)?
07:04	pcn	Not http - the proto is simpler, but yes, something like that.
07:04	pcn	I want to read line-separated input, splitup the input, and write batches of some number - say 50 or 100 per line - to the output
07:04	pcn	s/number/quantity of inputs/
07:06	pcn	The input is straightoforward, and I'm passing it arund via go blocks. The part that I'm trying to understand is how to end up writing synchronously to an output file in batches. Order of the messages doesn't matter.
07:06	ohpauleez	ahh, you just need some sort of a script - the functions you'll need are `slurp`, `split`, `spit` with :append true
07:06	ohpauleez	You don't want to do socket or file reads in go blocks
07:06	ohpauleez	you should really do those in thread blocks
07:07	ohpauleez	I was just optimizing a blog post the other day (adam bard's) that made some small mistakes
07:08	ohpauleez	You read from the file synchronously though, and that's what is feeding "the machine"
07:08	ohpauleez	so you'll end up being limited by that single part of your process
07:09	dav_	Does anyone have a minute to help me with my (above) gen-class problem ? :)
07:10	ohpauleez	dav: let me hit the scrollback, hang on
07:10	pcn	How efficient is spit? I expect to write a few hundred thousand lines, and I don't want the documented open, write, close behavior per-line
07:10	dav	ohpauleez: thanks
07:11	ohpauleez	pcn: I'm not sure, but personally, I only use spit and slurp for quick jobs. More often than not I need to use clojure.java.io readers and writers (for more control)
07:11	clgv	pcn: the you probably should open a fileoutput stream in a with-open
07:12	clgv	pcn: you'll find useful functions in clojure.java.io
07:13	ohpauleez	dav: You should try using the :methods arg in your :gen-class
07:14	ohpauleez	something like (:gen-class :name xlloop.funs :methods [ … ])
07:15	ohpauleez	and you can also set the method to be static there is you want (if you need that sort of thing)
07:17	dav	ohpauleez: worked with :methods, thanks.,
07:17	ohpauleez	np! Happy to helo
07:17	ohpauleez	help
07:18	dav	ohpauleez: any idea why this guy (https://kotka.de/blog/2010/02/gen-class_how_it_works_and_how_to_use_it.html) is able to do it without :methods?
07:18	pcn	ohpauleez: so I can pass the message around go blocks, then at the end put it on an async channel, and have a thread the manages file writing (and rotating out files and linking bits to where I want them) !< from that channel, outside of a go block. Does that sound like it's obeying the appropraite rules?
07:18	ohpauleez	You need to add the :prefex piece if you want to do that
07:19	ohpauleez	the default might be `-`, but I wouldn't count on it always being there
07:19	dav	ohpauleez: I see. thx.
07:20	dav	ohpauleez: actually :prefix doesn't seem to work either.
07:20	dav	ohpauleez: https://github.com/obadz/xlloop-clojure/blob/master/src/xlloop_clojure/funs.clj <= this doesn't work.
07:21	ohpauleez	pcn: Yeah, there are no hard and fast rules, but if you're dealing with something that has the potential to block (like certain kinds of IO), you should put the step directly response for the IO in a `thread` instead of a `go` block
07:22	ohpauleez	so you don't end up using up one of the threads from the go-block thread pool
07:22	dav	ohpauleez: I think I get it. :methods is required anytime I'm creating new methods that aren't already in a superclass..
07:22	dav	ohpauleez: I think?
07:23	ohpauleez	I can't confirm that… I have only used gen-class once or twice in my entire Clojure career :)
07:24	ohpauleez	ahh yes, the blog post seems to make a point about "custom methods"
07:25	dav	ohpauleez: thanks. mystery solved. lots of mystery surrounding gen-class :(
07:26	ohpauleez	yes, it's a bit of a black art :)
07:32	ohpauleez	pcn: I will cook up an example a little later this morning if you're still around
07:36	pcn	Thanks, I may idle
07:36	pcn	but I'll check my scrollback
08:32	seriously_random	check if HashSet one contains all the keywords in HashSet two?
08:33	ohpauleez	seriously_random: Take a look at clojure.set
08:33	ohpauleez	there are some subset functions
08:34	ohpauleez	and intersections (you can use the set of keys of both)
08:35	ohpauleez	you can also use .containsAll and .entrySet and a length check
08:36	ohpauleez	or (= (keys hs-one) (keys hs-two)) if you need the keys to be the same - really depends on what you're trying to express
08:36	clgv	seriously_random: since these are sets just compare if they are equal
08:37	ohpauleez	(for example, you don't need the length check in most cases)
08:37	amalloy	ohpauleez: it's a set, not a map
08:37	clgv	,(= #{:a :b :c} #{:c :b :a})
08:37	clojurebot	true
08:37	clgv	,(= #{:a :b :c} #{:c :b :a :d})
08:37	clojurebot	false
08:38	ohpauleez	ahh I missed that - yeah subset?, equality, or intersection - depending on the use case
08:38	mdrogalis	Five Word Tech Horror has to be my favorite hashtag on Twitter ever.
08:40	jkj_	hmmh. clojure bot pardons me in query
08:40	jkj_	,(:a #{:a :b :c})
08:40	clojurebot	:a
08:40	jkj_	,(#{:a :b :c} :a)
08:40	clojurebot	:a
08:41	jkj_	,(#{:a :b :c} #{:a :b :d})
08:42	clojurebot	nil
08:44	sw1nn	hi, anyone know much about deploying with leiningen to s3? I have it working, but lein deploy causes many WARNING: Error Response messages to be logged to console (307 temporary redirects by the look of things).
08:46	seriously_random	filter returns keywords, but they are not in a hashset, e.g. (:one, :two), how can I make it a set?
08:47	opqdonut	,(doc set)
08:47	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns a set of the distinct elements of coll."
08:47	gfredericks	does clojure-mode allow easily adding new keywords to the list of things that get indented macro-style?
08:49	amalloy	gfredericks: M-x customize-variable RET clojure-defun-indent
08:49	Bronsa	dnolen: you there?
09:00	sw1nn	just discovered the #leiningen channel, apologies for the noise.
09:01	mdrogalis	sw1nn: No worries. More than happy to help here if we know the answer.
09:03	sw1nn	mdrogalis: seems to me that 307 shouldn't be a warning, but I'm wondering if I've done something unusual in the set up that's causing this.
09:04	mdrogalis	sw1nn: Can I see your project file?
09:05	gfredericks	amalloy: coolthx
09:07	dnolen	Bronsa: hello
09:08	sw1nn	mdrogalis: https://gist.github.com/7928437
09:08	Bronsa	dnolen: hi, I was testing out t.analyzer.jvm and found out a typo in core.match https://github.com/clojure/core.match/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/match.clj#L1363
09:08	Bronsa	dnolen: you have one too many nil in that call
09:09	dnolen	Bronsa: yep, thanks
09:09	Bronsa	dnolen: also, https://github.com/clojure/core.logic/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/logic.clj#L73 you actually use pair in other namespaces, it only works now because you (declare pair) later in the source
09:10	dnolen	Bronsa: which other namespaces?
09:11	Bronsa	dnolen: https://github.com/clojure/core.logic/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/logic/fd.clj#L40
09:12	mdrogalis	sw1nn: Hmm, I don't see anything out of the ordinary.
09:13	dnolen	Bronsa: thanks, made a ticket for that one.
09:13	sw1nn	mdrogalis: I just created the S3 bucket, wondering if maybe it's not replicated fully yet and that's why I'm seeing the redirects. Will try again tomorrow. thks.
09:15	pcn	I want to have an single thread that writes data to a file. Every second, i want to rotate that file out, open a new file, and resume writes, but to the new file, etc.
09:15	pcn	It doesn't seem like this is easy to support using with-open.
09:16	pcn	and spit seems to do an open, write, close which puts a lot of stress on the filesystem
09:16	mdrogalis	sw1nn: Mmmkay.
09:16	pcn	Is it OK to manage files with, say, a ref to the current open file, and in a while loop change the ref when the second boundary has been crossed?
09:20	ohcibi	it is okay to call def inside a function, right? otherwise (defn) could not be implemented? or is this something only the core should do?
09:20	Bronsa	ohcibi: defn is a macro, not a function
09:21	ohcibi	Bronsa: ah.. so if I want to create my own def (e.g. for a dsl) the idiomatic way is to write macros for it?
09:23	Bronsa	ohcibi: yeah
09:43	ohcibi	Bronsa: is defmacro also a macro?
09:44	Bronsa	yes
10:05	`cbp	b
10:14	ngw	hi *, I'm trying to use carica in one of my projects (https://github.com/sonian/carica) but apparently the repo is not present on clojars or any place so lein deps fails
10:15	ngw	how do I solve this?
10:16	nDuff	ngw: it's there on clojars
10:16	nDuff	ngw: which version are you trying to pull?
10:16	nDuff	ngw: https://clojars.org/sonian/carica
10:17	joegallo	ah, it looks like 1.0.4 was tagged but not pushed out
10:18	joegallo	to clojars
10:18	ngw	nDuff weird: [sonian/carica "1.0.4"]
10:18	ngw	ha!
10:18	joegallo	leathekd: ^
10:20	jcromartie	I'm finding myself using Compojure's destructuring exceedingly rarely because I have functions that operate on the session and other things in the request
10:20	jcromartie	and it's just getting rather cluttered in the route destructuring
10:28	Pupeno_w	Doing (defn foo [& [bar baz]] ...) it's using pattern matching/destructuring to essentially define a function that receives between 0 and 2 attributes (more are just ignored), right?
10:28	coventry	Pupeno_w: Yes.
10:30	Pupeno_w	Neat.
10:38	wei__	trying to compare two maps across processes. could I compute an object hash or something of that sort?
10:41	`cbp	why not = ?
10:43	leathekd	joegallo: ngw: Sorry, yeah. The last update changed the readme but I failed to deploy it. Let me do that now.
10:47	joegallo	for shame, leathekd!
10:47	joegallo	:)
10:48	emaphis`	ouch.
10:52	CookedGryphon	does anyone know of a good ascii art graph renderer? vijual does exactly what I want but is ancient and doesn't work any more, plus it relies on swing which I can't use - I only want the ascii art bits
10:53	CookedGryphon	or am I going to have to bring vijal up to date
10:57	tolstoy	CookedGryphon: Maybe http://ditaa.sourceforge.net has something useful?
10:58	CookedGryphon	ah, overtone has a fork of vijual which seems to work
10:58	CookedGryphon	but isn't well advertised or documented
10:59	CookedGryphon	tolstoy: that's cool, but not quite what I want I don't think
10:59	CookedGryphon	I want to feed in [:a :b] [:b :c] [:a :d] and get a directed graph visualization in ascii art
11:00	tolstoy	I didn't think so. ;) Ditaa is more like OmniGraffle. ;)
11:00	leathekd	ngw: All set. 1.0.4 is now on Clojars.
11:00	clgv	CookedGryphon: if you drop the ASCII requirement you can use rhizome
11:02	CookedGryphon	clgv: that's nice, but I don't have swing
11:02	coventry	CookedGryphon: Sounds like an interesting application. What's it for?
11:02	CookedGryphon	otherwise I would probably have tried that first
11:03	CookedGryphon	I have a complex publish/subscribe model for my android app which coordinates lots of ui/system events and want to visualize it to help newcomers understand
11:03	CookedGryphon	but being on android all the graphviz stuff won't work
11:03	CookedGryphon	so it would be nice to just have it in the repl
11:04	clgv	CookedGryphon: pure java graph layouting then?
11:04	CookedGryphon	yep, with textual output
11:05	clgv	no android UI?
11:05	CookedGryphon	clgv: could do, but don't really want to do it on the device, it's a dev tool
11:05	CookedGryphon	so want to bring it up in the repl really
11:06	clgv	oh ok
11:17	coventry	Wow, sounds really cool.
11:17	CookedGryphon	yeah, i'm quite pleased with how it's coming along actually
11:17	CookedGryphon	loads of complex interactions that just melt into simple parts with core async and this model
11:18	CookedGryphon	so far anyway :P
11:57	jtoy	can a library know what the path of that java was started from? so if im at /home/jtoy and i do lein repl and include a library, can the library kow the path /home/jtoy and if so, how can Iget it?
11:59	TimMc	That's the current working directory, yeah?
11:59	jtoy	TimMc: yes, but im not sure if the jvm hides it or if jars know
12:00	justin_smith	jtoy: (System/getenv "PWD")
12:01	justin_smith	it's the same way any process tracks the working directory, and you can change your working directory by mutating it with setenv
12:01	jtoy	grea,t thanks
12:01	justin_smith	though java tools don't care about PWD they care about the classpath
12:01	justin_smith	but you can use PWD in creating File objects etc.
12:03	jtoy	justin_smith: I just wantto set the log directory for my app
12:03	hiredman	/win 27
12:03	jtoy	thats a lot of windows
12:03	hiredman	yep
12:10	jtoy	is there a simple way I can catch all exceptions in a program so hat I can log them?
12:11	justin_smith	(defn -main [] (try ... (catch Throwable t ...)))
12:11	justin_smith	that is a bit excessive though
12:11	justin_smith	there are throwables that you should not try to handle
12:11	mdrogalis	jtoy: You need to make a decision about what level of abstraction you're going to deal with errors and what you're doing to do about it.
12:11	mdrogalis	One big net is a recipe for a bad program.
12:12	jtoy	I just want to log them, canI just rethrow them?
12:12	justin_smith	true, I take my silly suggestion back
12:12	stuartsierra	jtoy: Thread/setDefaultUncaughtExceptionHandler will catch exceptions on threads that have no other try/catch in place.
12:12	mdrogalis	Yeah, of course. But to do that you need to catch them.
12:12	mdrogalis	stuartsierra: Huh, I never knew that was a thing.
12:12	jtoy	stuartsierra: great, thanks!
12:12	stuartsierra	Note that this doesn't apply to exceptions thrown in Futures, which get stored until you deref the future.
12:14	stuartsierra	Also note that ExecutorService.submit returns a Future, so any exception in one of those tasks will be stored in the Future.
12:15	apgwoz	hello.
12:15	apgwoz	woah. this room has grown a ton since i last visited.
12:19	mcblumperson	ascii
12:27	justin_smith	to elaborate what stuartsierra said, I think agents behave similarly (though agents may even be a subcategory of future for all I know)
12:30	TimMc	Ah, so I should deref all my futures... in another future... that can log the errors...
12:31	justin_smith	"We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives."
12:32	justin_smith	that classic quote seems quite apropos here
12:32	hiredman	TimMc: at that point you may be better off just not making any errors
12:33	technomancy	"Of all the dimensions I could spend my life being inexorably forced to travel forward through, I guess time isn't the worst."
12:33	hyPiRion	would be worse if it were the x-axis of the world
12:35	teslanick	It wouldn't be so bad if we could travel through time at will. If we were moving through time and the X-axis, well, that would be bad.
12:35	hyPiRion	oh yeah, you're right
12:36	justin_smith	I would settle for immutibility
12:36	justin_smith	so much better than immortality imho
12:37	teslanick	Isn't the "many worlds" hypothesis of time effectively immutability?
12:37	technomancy	consciousness is an agent
12:38	technomancy	which is too bad; it'd be really nice to have access to dosync
12:38	danneu	Does anyone use a minimal Backbone.js-like abstraction with ClojureScript?
12:38	teslanick	That would have made college so much easier: stop the world and do homework.
12:38	hyPiRion	today I learned AI can't use dosync
12:41	apgwoz	does anyone have experience integrating clojure into a heavily guiced java code base?
12:42	apgwoz	i'm interested in hearing horror / success stories
12:45	dnolen	k thinking about React life cycle hooks for om via reify - https://github.com/swannodette/om/issues/1
12:47	justin_smith	apgwoz: I haven't done so, but it should suffice to implement the right interfaces on a clojure defrecord or deftype. But hold out for someone who actually has tried it, I am just speculating.
12:47	hiredman	apgwoz: the search team where I work was fiddling with writing elasticsearch plugins (which I guess rely on guice for deps?) in clojure, there were issues at one time with being able to annotate constructors created by clojure with the correct annotations
12:47	S3thc0n	If I have no else to execute, but also only one expression (no do necessary) as then, should 'if' or 'when' be preferred?
12:48	justin_smith	S3thc0n: when for side effects
12:48	justin_smith	or for values
12:48	S3thc0n	Why is that?
12:48	justin_smith	(or (get-value thing) default-value)
12:48	justin_smith	(when in-outer-space (use-jetpack)
12:48	justin_smith	)
12:48	hiredman	apgwoz: that got fixed, and then after that I think they've been able to, but I haven't been directly involved so I am not sure what the extent of their success was
12:49	justin_smith	S3thc0n: either works, but or is more clearly about values, when is more clearly about what side effects to create
12:50	S3thc0n	justin_smith: You meant if instead of or?
12:50	justin_smith	no
12:50	justin_smith	if if you have two branches
12:50	justin_smith	or if you have one and care about values
12:50	justin_smith	when if you have one branch and care about side effects
12:51	justin_smith	,(or nil true (println :huh))
12:51	clojurebot	true
12:51	apgwoz	hiredman: thanks!
12:52	S3thc0n	I see.
12:52	S3thc0n	justin_smith: Thank you.
12:52	justin_smith	S3thc0n: np - though of course with or you end up inverting the first condition compared to when
12:53	justin_smith	'and' works similarly
12:53	justin_smith	,(and true :OK)
12:53	clojurebot	:OK
12:54	apgwoz	justin_smith: yeah. I'm still investigating, but I think as long as I use an injector with modules that I'm not providing, it should be OK.
12:54	apgwoz	justin_smith: but we'll see. :)
12:54	S3thc0n	Interesting. That is a bit I will have to remember
12:57	S3thc0n	But I did not quite get why I should use or instead of when?
12:58	justin_smith	for the same reason you wouldn't use if
12:58	justin_smith	,(if true :yeah)
12:58	clojurebot	:yeah
12:58	justin_smith	it works, but may not be as clear
12:59	justin_smith	similarly, when works for a single branch, but may not be as clear if all you care about is the value
12:59	justin_smith	'and' works also, but is not as clear if you care about side effects
13:00	justin_smith	(I should have suggested 'and' in the first place, I thought of or because that is how most of my single branch conditionals work - providing a default if nothing is specified)
13:00	S3thc0n	I see. So if I don't even have anything to do I'll just use or.
13:00	justin_smith	yeah, or for values, when for side effects
13:01	S3thc0n	ok.
13:01	S3thc0n	Thanks a lot!
13:19	S3thc0n	In the 4clojure problems, 'conj' is used very often, even though the order of the items matters. Is that bad style, or is it acceptable to let the next one looking at your code figure out what conj will do?
13:21	bbloom	S3thc0n: conj doesn't have anything to do with order. conj is just a polymorphic add-to-collection operator
13:22	bbloom	,(conj #{2 4 6} 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8)
13:22	clojurebot	#{1 2 3 4 5 ...}
13:22	TimMc	Usually when you're using conj, you know what kind of collection you're adding onto.
13:22	S3thc0n	bbloom: That is why I am asking. In 4clojure, the order of the resulting collection matters when it is used.
13:23	llasram	And if the function needs a particular type for the algorithm to be correct, that's no different than requiring you pass in that collection type vs a database connection or whatever
13:23	bbloom	S3thc0n: only if it's a sequential data structure
13:23	bbloom	,(map sequential? [#{1 2} [1 2] {1 2}])
13:23	clojurebot	(false true false)
13:24	bbloom	bitemyapp: i can't hold a grudge. you're re-followed :-P
13:25	pyrtsa	Naming problem: I keep wanting to use a helper function that converts any non-nil value x into [x] and nil into [], i.e. #(if (nil? %) [] [%]). In Haskell, I'd use maybeToList, but what's a suitable name for it in Clojure?
13:26	bbloom	pyrtsa: i think i've seen that called seqify or vecify
13:26	bbloom	oh no, nevermind.
13:26	bbloom	that's like 5 -> [5] and [5] -> [5] is vecify
13:27	jtoy	can I put a breakpoin in clojure code so that when I run the function from the repl, it will stop there and I can continue running the commands by hand to test ?
13:27	bbloom	pyrtsa: don't you just want into [] ?
13:27	bbloom	,(into [] nil)
13:27	clojurebot	[]
13:27	bbloom	,(into [] 5)
13:27	clojurebot	#<ExceptionInfo clojure.lang.ExceptionInfo: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long {:instance 5}>
13:27	pyrtsa	No I don't. :)
13:27	bbloom	er nevermind
13:27	bbloom	once again, i should think before i type anything
13:27	bbloom	ignore me :-P
13:27	pyrtsa	:)
13:28	S3thc0n	bbloom: Usually they are sequentials. WHat bothers me that it is expected for the reader to consider the data type.
13:28	S3thc0n	,(= '(3 4 5) (conj '(3 4) 5) (conj [3 4] 5))
13:28	clojurebot	false
13:29	S3thc0n	I fully understand if you use it for a map or so, but 4clojure definitely uses it on sequences in cases where order matters.
13:29	hyPiRion	pyrtsa: I'd just call it maybe-vector and get on with life :p
13:29	bbloom	S3thc0n: 4clojure has intentionally contrived problems to illustrate things
13:29	S3thc0n	Of course one will know it, but there's nothing wrong with making it more explicit?
13:29	hyPiRion	considering ##(vector 5) gives you a similar function
13:29	lazybot	⇒ [5]
13:30	S3thc0n	bbloom: It is all over the place, nto only when teaching conj / cons
13:30	bbloom	S3thc0n: i'm still not understanding the problem...
13:30	bbloom	S3thc0n: conj means "add to collection"
13:31	jtoy	this is a pretty cool breakpoint: https://coderwall.com/p/xayyvq
13:31	pyrtsa	hyPiRion: Maybe. :)
13:32	S3thc0n	Yes. There's nothing wrong with conj itself. But I wanted to know if it isn't bad style to rely on conj to append to a particular end of a sequence and let the reader figure out which one it is.
13:34	bbloom	S3thc0n: i don't think it's bad style
13:35	bbloom	it's usually pretty clear if the thing being conj-ed on to needs to be of a particular type or if the function works generically on any composite
13:35	alew	Well you should only be relying on an order in a vector I would think
13:37	coventry	Super-correct style would probably be only to use conj if you don't care about where it puts the addition to the collection. But it's pretty minor.
13:37	S3thc0n	So it is preferred to explicitly convert the given sequence to the datastructure and then use conj implicitly instead of just takig the given and then adding to the correct position?
13:37	S3thc0n	Caus then you will always have to know the type, which is kidn of inconvenient.
13:38	mdrogalis	He has a good point.
13:38	mdrogalis	This wouldn't make any sense if you didn't know it was prepending.
13:38	alew	What does it mean to be in a specific position in a map or set for example
13:38	mdrogalis	,(reduce conj (list) (range 1 5))
13:38	clojurebot	(4 3 2 1)
13:40	S3thc0n	alew: Nothing, but I'm talking about sequences.
13:41	alew	conj acts on collections not sequences no?
13:41	S3thc0n	alew: Aren't sequences collections?
13:41	hyPiRion	,(conj (seq (range 10)) -1)
13:41	clojurebot	(-1 0 1 2 3 ...)
13:42	alew	you can access any collection as a sequence
13:43	justin_smith	S3thc0n: I use conj on the data if the same function creates or coerces the data
13:43	alew	a sequence is a view at a collection, but not a collection itself I believe
13:43	alew	lists implement sequences pretty directly though
13:44	amalloy	alew: of course a sequence is a collection
13:44	justin_smith	alew: that is true
13:44	amalloy	it holds elements, you can add elements to it, what else is there?
13:44	alew	a seq is just an interface against some collection, is it really a collection itself?
13:44	justin_smith	linked-list style first/rest is kind of the lowest common denominator api for collections - if it is ordered pretty much anything can provide you that style
13:44	amalloy	&(coll? (range 1))
13:44	lazybot	⇒ true
13:44	amalloy	&(coll? (seq [1 2 3]))
13:44	lazybot	⇒ true
13:45	amalloy	you cannot provide any seq that is not a coll
13:45	justin_smith	,(seq "hello")
13:45	clojurebot	(\h \e \l \l \o)
13:46	alew	I'm guessing a seq created from range is a list underneath
13:46	justin_smith	,(coll? "hello")
13:46	clojurebot	false
13:46	justin_smith	dunno if that is what you meant
13:46	amalloy	alew: you are guessing some crazy things
13:47	amalloy	it's a sequence constructed of cons cells, which is rather like a list, but all it promises to be is a seq
13:47	amalloy	if you can provide some x such that (seq? x) is true and (coll? x) is false i shall be very excited
13:48	amalloy	(since that is definitionally impossible - every seq is a collection)
13:48	S3thc0n	I would argue that everything implementing an interface kind of has to be that thing in some sense.
13:48	justin_smith	S3thc0n: the instance? predicate agrees with you
13:49	amalloy	yeah, it's basically impossible to disagree with S3thc0n's assertion
13:51	alew	Yeah
13:51	S3thc0n	So I would propose to use cons and a function that appends on the end when order matters, instead of just relying on data types. It doesn't cost anyhting and only makes it clearer.
13:52	alew	Does clojure actually use cons cells underneath btw?
13:52	amalloy	sometimes
13:52	justin_smith	S3thc0n: well the point of conj is it is guaranteed to be the cheapest way to add to a collection, time/space wise
13:53	S3thc0n	Exactly. But order is not guaranteed. It might change depending on implementation (although that is not sure).
13:53	amalloy	justin_smith: i have an entertaining edge case for you
13:53	alew	In that respect, it doesn't really make sense to use conj as a way to ensure order from arbitrary collection input
13:53	justin_smith	amalloy: cool, do tell!
13:54	amalloy	&(let [x (lazy-seq (do (Thread/sleep 5000) [1]))] (time (first (conj x 0))))
13:54	lazybot	⇒ "Elapsed time: 5017.044583 msecs" 0
13:54	amalloy	&(let [x (lazy-seq (do (Thread/sleep 5000) [1]))] (time (first (cons 0 x))))
13:54	lazybot	⇒ "Elapsed time: 11.118449 msecs" 0
13:54	alew	That's funny
13:55	justin_smith	like a magic trick
13:55	justin_smith	but that is indeed why we have laziness, neato
13:55	amalloy	well, the trick is that LazySeq's conj implementation forces the first element of the sequence
13:55	amalloy	whereas cons just builds a Cons
13:56	alew	is it only the first element?
13:56	hyPiRion	unless it is chunked
13:56	amalloy	well, it calls seq
13:56	S3thc0n	I think i will look at coljure.core and see how conj is used there.
13:57	justin_smith	S3thc0n: good call, reading code is often the right answer :)
13:57	amalloy	and you can build collections which do arbitrary amounts of work to implement seq, so "only the first element" isn't really a provable thing
13:57	TimMc	Beware, clojure.core is full of dirty tricks and bootstrapping.
13:57	TimMc	It's a good read, but there's some very unidiomatic stuff. :-)
13:58	justin_smith	S3thc0n: if using emacs, M-x rgrep is a cool way to investigate usages throughout a codebase
13:58	TimMc	(Usually because it is still building the things Clojure idioms rely on.)
13:58	amalloy	eg, (conj (lazy-seq (vec (range 1e7))) -1) only forces the first element of the underlying seq, but building that seq can't happen until you make a 10M element vector
13:58	alew	it's probably bad practice anyway to rely on lazy seq evaluation for side effects
13:59	seangrove	bbloom: I think you'll like this - we're building in a bit of functionality to show emails in the browser
13:59	seangrove	Luckily, we don't have to worry about it looking good/formatting it at all, nor attachments, etc.
14:02	TimMc	For now. Just wait.
14:03	TimMc	In 6 months you'll be working on a full MTA.
14:03	bbloom	seangrove: remind me who "we" is again?
14:03	coventry	Every mail reader expands until it can be used as a general-purpose programming language.
14:04	seangrove	bbloom: Zenbox, but working on a new product
14:04	jcromartie	I'm about to just (def ^:dynamic db) here, is that so wrong?
14:04	bbloom	seangrove: oh right, the gmail plugin in cljs :-)
14:05	seangrove	TimMc: It's an idea I flirt with form time to time for a side project eventually - an open source extensible email client in cljs
14:06	justin_smith	coventry: lol, I was just looking for the original quote
14:06	justin_smith	jcromartie: depends, should threads see the db binding, and are they launched inside the lexical context of the binding?
14:07	TimMc	coventry: Claws Mail is definitely working on that, although it relies on being able to shell out for the most advanced predicates and actions.
14:07	seangrove	jcromartie: I'm not a big fan of it, but if it's just something quick-n-dirty, it's not the end of the world
14:08	S3thc0n_	As much as I have seen (not too much) the function description explicitly states that it is conjoined (no order guarantee) or it is used on a sequence which was created very near to the use.
14:08	coventry	TimMc: Sounds like a glorious yak shaving vehicle.
14:09	alew	(class (range 1))
14:09	alew	,(class (range 1))
14:09	seangrove	jcromartie: Also, I believe bitemyapp said something like "I'd burn my house down before doing dynamic db bindings again"
14:09	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LazySeq
14:09	seangrove	Could have been for something else though
14:10	jcromartie	seangrove: I'm leaning towards "just pass an arg"
14:10	jcromartie	it's really not that bad, once you get used to it, and it's the very definition of SIMPLE
14:10	jcromartie	but I have my doubts
14:10	jcromartie	that's the story of my Clojure experience, nothing but self doubt :(
14:10	seangrove	jcromartie: Yeah, I think that's a good approach
14:11	justin_smith	jcromartie: that sting is just your pride fucking with you, you're learning, that's positive
14:12	jcromartie	hm, that's an interesting way of looking at it, actually!
14:12	justin_smith	it is my philosophy of learning
14:13	alew	What's the difference between a LazySeq and a ChunkedCons?
14:13	jcromartie	alew: this sounds like a start to a good troll :)
14:14	alew	I'm wondering because
14:14	alew	,(class (seq (range 1)))
14:14	clojurebot	clojure.lang.ChunkedCons
14:14	alew	,(class (sequence (range 1)))
14:14	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LazySeq
14:15	justin_smith	alew: chunking is a performance optimization, it realizes some number of results beyond what is needed for the current call
14:15	alew	Is it still a LazySeq though?
14:16	coventry	alew: http://blog.fogus.me/2010/01/22/de-chunkifying-sequences-in-clojure/
14:16	justin_smith	,(instance? clojure.lang.ChunkedCons (seq (range 1)))
14:16	clojurebot	true
14:16	justin_smith	,(instance? clojure.lang.LazySeq (seq (range 1)))
14:16	clojurebot	false
14:17	coventry	If you're looking at clojure.core.clj, jvm/clojure/lang/ChunkedCons.java are only a short hop away.
14:18	coventry	*and friends are only a short hop away
14:25	alew	speaking of friend
14:25	alew	has anyone had a good experience with the friend authentication library?
14:26	jonasen	Bronsa: Is tools.analyzer.jvm better to infer java types than Compiler.java (i.e. less type hints are needed)?
14:30	Bronsa	jonasen: yes
14:31	jonasen	Bronsa: Is there an easy way to see which types Compiler.java can't find? (I'm thinking some kind of :infer-type-hints "linter")
14:32	Bronsa	jonasen: not that I can think of right now
14:32	jonasen	Bronsa: ok
14:33	Bronsa	jonasen: btw will probably release a 0.0.1-alpha1 version of t.a & t.a.j later this week so that eastwood can depend on a non-SNAPSHOT version
14:33	algal	I got to a good place with friend but it took longer to get there than I'd have liked.
14:37	alew	algal: Do you think it's because of documentation or just the inherent complexity of the interface?
14:38	alew	conventry: Thanks for the link btw
14:38	algal	alew: Documentation is definitely a problem. I am not sure what I think of the interface.
14:38	S3thc0n_	I have now seen a whole lot of examples where people just rely on conj to do the right thing...
14:39	algal	alew: The main docs now are the README, which needs editing.
14:40	S3thc0n	But in core it is made sure that it is always the same. So there should be no real issues as long as noone fiddles around with core. But it still is semantically incorrect and complicates thing unnecessary
14:40	algal	alew: it presents too many concepts for basic use cases.
14:41	algal	alew: I started with friend, ditched it for http-basic-authentication, then went back to friend.
14:41	alew	algal: Yeah, I think he just wrote everything he had on mind without really thinking of the minimal surface area to cover
14:42	algal	alew: yes. friend would be 3x as useful if someone spent 3 hours editing the README.
14:42	justin_smith	well there is that thing they call pull requests on github
14:42	algal	justin_smith: I know! It's on my todo list.
14:43	alew	I still need to get a working conceptual model of friend before I'm confident in making docs for it :P
14:43	algal	alew: I bet that whole model could fit in one well-considered diagram.
14:44	alew	Probably, it seems well designed
14:44	justin_smith	alew: three awesome ways to figure out how to use an underdocumented library: write unit tests that pass given the current implementation, write comments that accurately describe the non-trivial parts of how the functions interact (given the facts you know from the tests), write a readme that the author considers accurate
14:45	justin_smith	the nice thing is these can be stepping stones to help others in the future
14:46	bitemyapp	Bronsa: I didn't know eastwood used ta/taj
14:46	bitemyapp	Bronsa: neat.
14:47	algal	alew: one complicating factor is that authentication + routing + ring is a bit non-obvious, imho.
14:48	algal	alew: at least, I first stumbled into the error of wrapping routing handlers in auth. others do as well.
14:49	Bronsa	bitemyapp: it was mostly an Andy Fingerhut effort to port it, it helped me a lot finding & fixing bugs
14:50	Bronsa	bitemyapp: now t.a and t.a.j have been succesfully run in all contrib libraries but core.typed/jvm.tools.analyzer because of namespace collisions and data.fressian/test.generative beacause of http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/TANAL-24
14:51	justin_smith	algal: alew I am trying to figure out friend myself, so I can integrate it into caribou with my plugin API (said api is still in development)
14:51	technomancy	bbloom: congrats on breaking 10M =D
14:52	algal	justin_smith: caribou looks very impressive, btw!
14:52	justin_smith	thanks, I am only one of the devs, and not the primary one
14:52	justin_smith	but I trust that the parts that you like best are the ones I am responsible for :)
14:53	justin_smith	the parts you don't like are all patchwork's fault
14:59	bbloom	technomancy: w00t! thanks
14:59	bbloom	technomancy: it's really unbelievable
15:01	bbloom	technomancy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6dnBA8BSR8&feature=youtu.be :-)
15:02	technomancy	haha wow
15:03	biggbear	bbloom: are you the kid teaching?
15:03	bbloom	that's just the most recent cool thing to grace my inbox
15:03	bbloom	technomancy: there's so much news/press/excitement, it's just too cool
15:03	bbloom	like absurdly excited little girls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_t3-3vPp-g
15:04	bbloom	biggbear: http://code.org
15:04	algal	"They used to call it magic. Today we call it information" :)
15:05	seangrove	bbloom: Looks like you need to work on loading times :)
15:06	bbloom	seangrove: lol i think she was just too excited & mis-tapped the safari icon :-P
15:07	algal	bbloom: has Papert's Mindstorms etc. influenced the instruction design? or not so much?
15:07	hyPiRion	how do you even get that sort of domain? Crazy lucky.
15:08	hyPiRion	That's what the only thing I wonder about. I have weird priorities.
15:08	algal	I've been visiting public elementary schools in SF and it's sad how unimaginative they are about use of computers.
15:08	bbloom	algal: technomancy & others were discussing mindstorms in here a few days ago. i just wrote javascript/ruby/etc, leave the education design up to the professionals :-)
15:09	`cbp	you can hack mindstorms with clojure? or is that not related?
15:10	bbloom	but i can say that the feedback has been exceptionally positive for the pacing & presentation of our tutorials in particular. some of our learning partners, especially those teaching javascript or freeform ones with out goals, have much lower success rates
15:10	algal	`cbp: Lego mindstorms != Papert mindstorms.
15:10	bbloom	`cbp: not lego
15:10	technomancy	it's definitely indirectly influenced by mindstorms
15:10	technomancy	logo -> scratch -> blockly -> code.org
15:10	algal	bbloom: Very cool.
15:10	`cbp	oh, I got excited for a bit
15:15	algal	bbloom: btw, I really liked your presentation on concatenative clojure. saw it online. very eye-opening.
15:15	bbloom	algal: thanks! glad you liked it
15:19	bitemyapp	~APL
15:19	clojurebot	APL is a comonad
15:19	bitemyapp	~concatenative is a comonad
15:19	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
15:21	algal	bitemyapp: Has someone really configured "~" to call its argument a comonad?
15:21	algal	~algal
15:21	clojurebot	No entiendo
15:23	pjstadig	algal: "~" is just how you get clojurebot's attention
15:23	danneu	Does anyone implement the ol current-user concept in a different way than to use a dynamic var?
15:23	TimMc	You're a comonad.
15:23	bbloom	bitemyapp: no, it really isn't stop that
15:24	bbloom	bitemyapp: even if it was a comonad, it's not a useful thing to consider
15:24	jcromartie	survey: mustache (clostache etc.) vs hiccup?
15:24	TimMc	Is a comonad like a coburrito?
15:24	jcromartie	or a cronut?
15:24	bitemyapp	TimMc: kinda.
15:24	algal	it's like a co writing desk.
15:24	TimMc	jcromartie: Hiccup is unsafe by default, so there's that.
15:25	danneu	hiccup for sure
15:25	TimMc	(Mustache HTML-encodes data unless you ask for an exception.)
15:26	TimMc	Someone made a safe version of Hiccup, although I can't remember who.
15:26	seangrove	Big fan of hiccup
15:26	coventry	TimMc, algal: http://trevorjim.com/the-monadic-morass/
15:27	teslanick	Googling turned up nothing -- why is hiccup unsafe?
15:27	bitemyapp	coventry: monads aren't a turing tarpit, lol.
15:27	rovar	how can I get tests to work via fireplace?
15:27	bitemyapp	coventry: monads aren't some limited language researchy thing, they're used to build reusable software components.
15:27	rovar	I'm trying to work through the intro to fireplace and I'm stuck there..
15:27	bitemyapp	a regrettable article written from ignorance.
15:28	TimMc	teslanick: If the data you're dumping into hiccup is "<blink>", hiccup will happily include that in your HTML.
15:28	xeqi	teslanick: you have to manually escape strings
15:28	jcromartie	I like the idea of mustache, and yeah I don't like the unsafe-by-default hiccup
15:28	xeqi	TimMc: https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/blob/master/src/clojars/web/safe_hiccup.clj is the additions we use in clojars to make escape by default
15:28	TimMc	I don't undersatnd why people keep writing HTML templating or generation libs that fuck this up.
15:29	teslanick	Ah, the XSS problem.
15:29	xeqi	though it does escape more then it needs to, we just don't use those parts
15:29	bitemyapp	TimMc: Selmer gets it right by default.
15:29	TimMc	I'm glad to hear that.
15:30	TimMc	So does Enlive, and, I think, Laser.
15:30	bitemyapp	Hrm. I should ask Raynes.
15:30	jcromartie	I don't really like any of the Clojure mustache libs, and I have failed at several attempts at writing my own due to the insanity of parsing Mustache with the set-delimiter directive
15:30	Raynes	bitemyapp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkNGf_NPM78
15:30	Raynes	Hi.
15:30	bitemyapp	TimMc: Selmer is the only fast and nice to use templating library that gets it right :)
15:30	bitemyapp	Raynes: hi!
15:30	jcromartie	maybe I'll try selmer too :)
15:30	jcromartie	right now this app uses clostache AND hiccup
15:30	bitemyapp	jcromartie: highly recommend it.
15:30	Raynes	So what are you asking me about?
15:30	Raynes	Escaping?
15:31	bitemyapp	Raynes: yeah, how does Laser do it?
15:31	xeqi	I thought everyone was using cljs+react now :p
15:31	TimMc	Raynes: Laser, does it fuck up escaping?
15:31	danneu	hiccup is a unique opportunity to do something you just can't/don't do in other languages/stacks.
15:31	bitemyapp	danneu: er, no.
15:31	jcromartie	true
15:31	Raynes	Laser escapes strings by default. You can wrap strings in an Unescape type if you want them to not be escaped.
15:31	bitemyapp	danneu: that was already a thing in Common Lisp with CL-WHO
15:31	danneu	oh come on
15:31	TimMc	Raynes: Good, good.
15:31	Raynes	That's what my hickory fork allows for.
15:31	danneu	captain technical
15:31	TimMc	danneu: Yes, and I like the general shape of Hiccup for some tasks, but this one flaw is pretty serious.
15:31	bitemyapp	TimMc: so, sounds like Laser works on roughly the same basis as Selmer. Escape by default, mark for unescaped on a case-by-case basis.
15:32	bitemyapp	danneu: pardon me for being a grumpy old Lisper, just saying.
15:32	alew	justin_msith: you mentioned caribou. I've been thinking of switching to it from composure and making use of the model stuff
15:32	bitemyapp	compojure*
15:32	justin_smith	alew: I won't try to convince you not to :)
15:33	pcn	Does anyone know of libraries that make interacting with the filesystem easier? I'd like to have access to stat, link, unlink, and some other stuff.
15:33	Raynes	bitemyapp and I are secretly the same person.
15:33	bitemyapp	pcn: fs
15:33	danneu	pcn: Raynes has this fs lib.
15:33	Raynes	Our real name is Jason and we have multiple personality disorder, clearly.
15:33	justin_smith	alew: be sure to check out the docs, they are pretty extensive. If you have questions that are caribou specific we hang out on #caribou
15:33	bitemyapp	Raynes: no we don't
15:33	pcn	thanks
15:34	bitemyapp	Raynes: ssshhh don't tells thems
15:34	Raynes	<3
15:34	danneu	TimMc: is the issue that you have to opt-in to escaping user input instead of opting in to unescape it?
15:34	TimMc	Exactly.
15:35	Raynes	pcn: danneu is correct, I do has this fs lib. It may have things you want in there.
15:35	arrdem	Raynes: http://i.imgur.com/qYNFUyF.gif
15:35	TimMc	And users will always get this wrong in at least one location, and then Samy comes in the night and crashes your site.
15:35	Raynes	pcn: There is also conch if you'd like to just shell out. That works too.
15:35	Raynes	I got whachu need, brah. Take your pick.
15:36	bitemyapp	pcn: the entire Clojure community is actually just Raynes and technomancy. There are no other creators of libraries.
15:36	TimMc	And ztellman. I think ztellman is a separate person.
15:36	jcromartie	ztellman is an AI
15:36	bitemyapp	TimMc: yeah but he's in another dimension.
15:36	jcromartie	but legally a person
15:37	bitemyapp	jcromartie: glasses-wearing AI
15:37	Raynes	My new profile pictures: http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/288/7/6/deal_with_it___rainbow_style__by_j_brony-d4cwgad.png
15:37	TimMc	I don't think I even need to click on that.
15:37	danneu	TimMc: since there are solutions for it, it doesn't seem like it should have much clout in one's decision
15:37	arrdem	TimMc: the URL does say it all
15:37	bitemyapp	Raynes: <3
15:38	danneu	besides, cowboy coders don't care
15:38	ztellman	bitemyapp: you figure my designers would have gotten my eyes right, but alas
15:38	TimMc	danneu: Unless I'm mistaken, xeqi didn't monkeypatch hiccup, it's an outright fork.
15:39	TimMc	That means it's not even hiccup, it's a less-maintained thing that used to be hiccup.
15:40	danneu	it's just a redef of the html5 macro
15:41	danneu	i do like that form-to redef though that bakes in the anti-forgery-token input
15:41	danneu	yoink
15:42	TimMc	Ah, OK.
15:44	danneu	oh yeah, there's even hiccupy syntax for css https://github.com/noprompt/garden
15:44	Raynes	noprompt is a bro.
15:44	Raynes	<3
15:45	danneu	i used to think flask/sinatra/express were minimal. but now i use that weavejester/noprompt stack
15:48	bitemyapp	Raynes: yes he is.
15:49	bitemyapp	Raynes: a MENSCH as they say.
15:49	mdrogalis	Raynes: Someone saw that I added 'fs' to a project and asked about when I "added this raynes stuff in"
15:49	mdrogalis	You're basically a library now.
15:50	Raynes	lol
15:50	bitemyapp	but a library with hopes and dreams.
15:51	mdrogalis	A library that throws a nio class cast exception on Java 6. Bad Raynes
15:52	Raynes	mdrogalis: Pretty sure that was fixed in a more recent version.
15:52	Raynes	But the plan was to deprecate Java 6 support in the next major version.
15:52	mdrogalis	Raynes: Ah, it wasn't my problem, and I could care less about Java 6 support. So good.
15:53	Raynes	It's just that the nio stuff is pretty nice. It's hard to ignore when Java releases are moving so fast these days :p
15:53	mdrogalis	Yeah, no fault there for sure.
16:01	sveri	hi, how can i refer from one leiningen project to another leiningen cljs-build?
16:04	bitemyapp	technomancy: the answer to the shopping cart thing is that Amazon does a set union when they need to resolve a conflict
16:05	bitemyapp	which explains that one time I had an item in my shopping cart I couldn't seem to delete.
16:05	technomancy	bitemyapp: when in doubt, go with the answer that makes the company more $$$
16:06	bitemyapp	technomancy: yeah I found it a cute, but sensible solution.
16:07	dnolen	sveri: what do you mean?
16:09	sveri	dnolen: i have to projects, both are clojurescript projects and i want to include one project into the other during development and build time, just like i would use one clojure lib in another clojure library
16:09	sveri	*two
16:10	dnolen	sveri: oh, might be possible, but I don't know myself.
16:10	sveri	dnolen: ok, thank you :-)
16:16	OscarZ	if i have a recursive function, a kind of tree traversal thingy that may make two recursive calls to itself in some cases, is it possible make the two calls run in parallel if there are cores available?
16:17	justin_smith	OscarZ: sounds like reducers http://clojure.com/blog/2012/05/08/reducers-a-library-and-model-for-collection-processing.html
16:19	OscarZ	thanks
16:19	justin_smith	OscarZ: or you could express it as go blocks that send their results to a shared input channel
16:19	technomancy	sveri: you mean :dependencies?
16:19	OscarZ	might be too advanced stuff for me at this point :)
16:19	patchwork	Getting intermittent errors about "too many arguments to def"
16:19	patchwork	I run it one time, no errors
16:20	patchwork	next, error
16:20	patchwork	What is that about?
16:21	justin_smith	sounds like an evil macro!
16:21	justin_smith	are you using defonce with a docstring?
16:22	patchwork	Not me!
16:23	amalloy	patchwork: using def with a docstring pre-1.3?
16:24	gfredericks	amalloy: that wouldn't be intermittent
16:25	amalloy	gfredericks: intermittent is so vague. maybe he's running lein test, in a project which runs tests on all clojure version in a nondeterministic order
16:25	patchwork	amalloy: That is the error. So it seems it is intermittently pulling in pre 1.3, then on next boot post 1.3?
16:25	patchwork	amalloy: Typing > lein run each time
16:25	justin_smith	sounds like a job for lein pedantic / exclusions
16:25	patchwork	No multiple versions
16:26	patchwork	So: lein run — too many arguments to def
16:26	patchwork	Next: lein run — boots fine
16:26	technomancy	yeah definitely drop a pedantic in there
16:26	gfredericks	(if (zero? (rand-int 2)) (eval '(def foo bar baz bang bapiew)))
16:27	justin_smith	lol
16:27	technomancy	bapiew? were you raised by wolves?
16:27	technomancy	the correct metasyntactic variable is "quux"
16:28	justin_smith	my goto metasyntactic is ☃
16:29	technomancy	kids these days
16:29	TimMc	quux quuux quuuux
16:29	justin_smith	😼
16:29	gfredericks	clojurebot: bapiew is wolfspeak for quux
16:29	clojurebot	Roger.
16:30	TimMc	That's a nice little time bomb of surreality.
16:30	gfredericks	that's a good summary of most of my interaction with clojurebot
16:30	coventry	patchwork: I would try putting a clojure.tools.test/trace-var on (def) at the entry point of lein run. Don't know whether that works, though.
16:30	technomancy	that's clojurebot's whole purpose for existence
16:31	gfredericks	~that
16:31	clojurebot	that is dumb
16:31	gfredericks	~this
16:31	clojurebot	this is not a bug
16:31	gfredericks	~what
16:31	clojurebot	what is cells
16:31	justin_smith	~wat
16:31	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
16:31	technomancy	~why
16:31	clojurebot	technomancy: because you can't handle the truth!
16:31	justin_smith	~greek
16:31	clojurebot	Excuse me?
16:31	gfredericks	~technomancy
16:31	clojurebot	technomancy is <jweiss> oh man this sucks, why didn't anyone warn me about protocols
16:32	technomancy	~how
16:32	clojurebot	with style and grace
16:32	gfredericks	~wherefore
16:32	clojurebot	excusez-moi
16:32	justin_smith	~when
16:32	clojurebot	I don't understand.
16:32	technomancy	hard to argue with that one
16:32	pjstadig	~suddenly
16:32	clojurebot	BOT FIGHT!!!!!111
16:32	pjstadig	bah
16:32	gfredericks	~lazybot
16:32	clojurebot	lazybot is echo ~lazybot
16:32	gfredericks	~sexpbot
16:32	clojurebot	sexpbot is not a clojurebot
16:32	justin_smith	~~
16:32	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
16:32	technomancy	~when is for side effects
16:32	clojurebot	In Ordnung
16:33	pjstadig	technomancy: haha!
16:33	pjstadig	keep the dream alive, my friend
16:33	sveri	technomancy: basically, yes, but i mean clojurescript dependencies
16:33	technomancy	sveri: sure. what's the problem though?
16:34	justin_smith	~whither
16:34	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
16:34	technomancy	~whence
16:34	clojurebot	Excuse me?
16:34	sveri	technomancy: i wonder if its possible, and if, do i do it just like i add a clojure dependency
16:34	technomancy	~tias
16:34	clojurebot	Try it and see! You'll get results faster than asking someone in #clojure to evaluate it for you, and you'll get that warm, fuzzy feeling of self-reliance.
16:34	pjstadig	~dont
16:34	clojurebot	No entiendo
16:35	justin_smith	~whither is let bindings or function args are best, then vars, finally dynamic vars
16:35	clojurebot	Ok.
16:35	justin_smith	"to what place or state"
16:36	technomancy	clojurebot: whether tis better to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous monads
16:36	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
16:36	technomancy	get it? arrows? eeeeeeh.
16:36	sveri	technomancy: was that hint for me?
16:36	justin_smith	lol
16:36	technomancy	sveri: right-o
16:37	justin_smith	Generalized Abstract Nonsense is the best source of humor material
16:37	sveri	:D it took me a while to get it :D thank you, i try it
16:37	technomancy	oh no cartesian closed comic is offline D=
16:39	gfredericks	it is?
16:39	jweiss	hah, technomancy's definition is from met complaining about protocols. something about reloading the definition of a protocol causing class mismatches :)
16:40	jweiss	*me
16:42	justin_smith	yup, that is what sucks about protocols
16:42	justin_smith	macros have similar issues
16:42	justin_smith	redefining them does not redefine the things that already used them
16:43	gfredericks	macro-driven development is a hard life
16:50	bitemyapp	I would rather like it if Mac OS X would stop breaking my applications when I unlock my computer.
16:51	justin_smith	that sounds really weird
16:55	bitemyapp	justin_smith: it's pretty weird.
16:55	bitemyapp	I end up having to kill and restart a bunch of stuff.
16:57	justin_smith	what are the symptoms?
16:59	bitemyapp	justin_smith: they shove up to the top of the screen, taking all the horizontal width, and about 1/4 of the vertical span
16:59	bitemyapp	they are responsive in some sense, but the rendering of the window is frozen and I have to cmd-q and restart to make them work again
17:01	justin_smith	Why can't anybody do displays right. I bet it has to do with the code for recognizing and using monitors as they are plugged in.
17:01	jcromartie	yeah I really don't get it. particularly on Linux
17:01	jcromartie	graphics cards are scary beasts
17:02	justin_smith	jcromartie: now that I grok xrandr I would not enjoy having to use systems that do not provide that utility
17:02	technomancy	intel cards <3
17:02	technomancy	just works
17:02	justin_smith	a single command line to use / ignore / rotate an external display, eminantly shell-scriptable
17:02	justin_smith	technomancy: how frequently do you use multiple monitors?
17:03	technomancy	every day?
17:03	technomancy	I don't do rotation though
17:03	jcromartie	I'd love to use the output on my thinkpad, which has Nvidia/Intel setup
17:03	jcromartie	I have to run the Nvidia card to get output
17:03	jcromartie	but I have to run Intel to get more than 40 minutes of battery life :\|
17:06	bitemyapp	justin_smith: xrandr has been pretty good to me on my Thinkpad.
17:06	bitemyapp	technomancy: so nix. How do I install/search packages?
17:06	justin_smith	technomancy: I don't do rotation either on a regular basis, I was using it as an example that more advanced functionality was also there in the command. One of these days I want to try the zoom/pan multi-monitor setup, where one monitor is the entire "display" scaled down, and the other is a zoomed in region following the mouse
17:06	bitemyapp	technomancy: the documentation hasn't been kind to me.
17:08	technomancy	bitemyapp: `nix-env -qa emacs`
17:08	technomancy	^ to search
17:08	technomancy	`nix-env -i emacs-24.3` <- to install
17:09	bitemyapp	error: getting information about `/Users/callen/.nix-defexpr': No such file or directory
17:09	bitemyapp	technomancy: I tried figuring out what it wanted me to do to finish bootstrapping the env but it referenced files I couldn't find.
17:10	bitemyapp	nix is written in C++? Brave.
17:10	technomancy	bitemyapp: yeah there's some crazy NIH going on there
17:11	technomancy	I wish they had gone the https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/ route from the start
17:11	technomancy	(haven't tried guix yet; it looks more pleasant but probably a bit less polished)
17:14	technomancy	I really should try it
17:18	bitemyapp	technomancy: I don't want to use Guile :(
17:19	coventry	Funny, I've just been playing with nix today too.
17:33	pcn	This has go to to be well known. How am I getting "IOException Stream closed java.io.BufferedWriter.ensureOpen (BufferedWriter.java:98)" using with-open and a for loop to write data to th efile.
17:35	stuartsierra	pcn: `for` is lazy
17:36	pcn	Ah, yeah, I just get that while works for that. Hmm..
17:37	technomancy	bitemyapp: you'd prefer a weird one-off language?
17:45	bitemyapp	technomancy: you know what I prefer _
17:46	technomancy	bitemyapp: there's a disturbing amount of perl in nix =\
17:47	technomancy	#fivewordtechhorrors or whatever
17:48	bitemyapp	not surprised.
17:55	pcn	So what's an idiomatic way to deliver a list to an open file, not using spit?
17:55	pcn	Can while bind?
17:57	coventry	>pcn: You can use (for [bindings :while (test)] body) for that.
17:59	coventry	Oh, didn't see your first message. To send to a file, use doseq instead of for.
18:00	pcn	Ah, I was going to ask about un-lazifying it. I'll try doseq.
18:11	pcn	So https://gist.github.com/pcn/7937204
18:12	cark	anybody here having a bit of experience running a cljs repl on node-webkit ?
18:13	cark	i got the repl working, but the document element being referenced is the iframe for the repl rpc, i have no clue on how to acccess the top-level repl
18:13	cark	i mean top level document
18:15	justin_smith	cark: sounds like a xss security thing
18:15	cark	everything is local
18:15	cark	but yes, i think it's forbidden for an ifram to access anything else
18:16	justin_smith	yeah, just because this is all the same host, does not mean xss security measures can'
18:16	justin_smith	t affect it
18:16	cark	oh, node-webkit is loading it's data from file, so yes must be xss problem
18:16	justin_smith	damn fat fingers hitting too many keys at once
18:17	cark	so i guess i should serve the files and access these via http at least for developement
18:17	cark	that sounds right, thanks !
18:18	justin_smith	np
18:21	TimMc	S11001001: Are you at the meetup?
18:22	S11001001	TimMc: I'll be leaving for it soon
18:22	TimMc	OK, I think the times on the meetup site are wrong.
18:23	TimMc	I got here at 6:00, but Eric's not here yet.
18:23	TimMc	It seems to still be on, though.
18:23	S11001001	6 isn't the right time :)
18:23	TimMc	hrmph :-)
18:23	S11001001	6:30's the meet/greet, 7's the "official" start
18:24	S11001001	here we go
18:39	pcn	TimMc: what town are you guys in?
18:42	TimMc	pcn: Cambridge/Boston, MA
18:42	TimMc	(By the way, the meetup was in fact supposed to start at 6:00 PM.)
18:44	amalloy	good news! if you're living on a sensible coast, it's not 6PM yet
18:48	pcn	So you're still at work :)
18:51	slpsys	" "
18:58	Raynes	amalloy: I don't understand the east coast.
18:59	Raynes	I picture it as kind of a swamp. All of it.
18:59	amalloy	pcn: happily unemployed!
18:59	Raynes	:p
19:00	Raynes	But the beach is still there.
19:00	pcn	amalloy: can't find any problem with it if you're happy!
19:02	TimMc	Raynes: This is correct.
19:02	amalloy	checkmate, east coast
19:20	bitemyapp	oh my god I just spent like 5 hours jumping between helping 4 different people
19:20	bitemyapp	I want to curl up in a ball now.
19:21	Raynes	s'okay buddy
19:22	bitemyapp	Raynes: I like helping people but if I don't get some music and code in my life I will shrivel up and die.
19:22	rovar	is it possible to use a chan as a key in a map?
19:22	bitemyapp	rovar: don't.
19:22	rovar	ok
19:22	bitemyapp	rovar: don't pretend channels are reified "things"
19:23	bitemyapp	rovar: they might be in some cases, but often aren't.
19:23	rovar	rgr that
19:23	bitemyapp	the current state of reification is a value-oriented convenience but don't take it beyond that.
19:24	bbloom	rovar: it's perfectly possible
19:24	bitemyapp	rovar: why'd you want to do that anyway? curious idea.
19:24	rovar	making a multi-user websocket server
19:24	bitemyapp	I could see it making sense for a chan to be a value, but not a key.
19:24	bbloom	i also don't think it's as bad a plan as bitemyapp suggests
19:24	amalloy	really? i'd expect channels to have identity equality
19:24	bitemyapp	amalloy: they do
19:24	bbloom	amalloy: they do
19:24	amalloy	seems perfectly sensible to use them as keys in a map
19:24	bbloom	agreed
19:25	bitemyapp	s/faces/face/g
19:25	bbloom	especially with (alts! (keys ..
19:25	amalloy	i think it's totally plausible that you're just running around the room scrunching everyone's faces
19:25	rovar	its either I use the channel to associate all of the rest of the metadata.. or I generate a unique string that represents that connection, and hand that back to the client
19:25	technomancy	amalloy: he didn't sp.ecify what he was helping 4 different people with
19:25	rovar	the first approach is just much simpler, but not as fault tolerant.
19:26	bitemyapp	technomancy: clojure and datomic
19:27	bitemyapp	the clompire spreads here.
19:30	bitemyapp	emp-jure?
19:31	technomancy	please set LEIN_IRONIC_CLO to continue
19:41	bitemyapp	bbloom: I see you re-followed me on the twattles. What inspired that?
19:42	bbloom	bitemyapp: i only really unfollowed you for a gag & then you showed up on my "interactoins" page, so i clicked the follow button :-P
19:43	bitemyapp	bbloom: <3
19:44	Raynes	bitemyapp is good peoples.
19:44	noprompt	#1983
19:44	Raynes	noprompt: Hi!
19:44	noprompt	Raynes: :-)
19:45	noprompt	bitemyapp: my internet tanked last night. there was comcast blackout. :(
19:45	mysamdog	Both dommy and dommina do not appear to work for me
19:45	mysamdog	I mean, append! and stuff works, but listen! doesn't
19:46	bitemyapp	noprompt: is it back up?
19:46	bitemyapp	Raynes: that is a lie.
19:46	kendallbuchanan	I have a question about the robert-hooke library: I'm wondering if a particular use-case I have is taking it too far. Anyone used it before?
19:46	noprompt	bitemyapp: yeah, but i'm at work for the next hour or so atm.
19:47	bitemyapp	Raynes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omSeE9Ku9lM
19:47	rovar	so how might I force an evaluation of chan to put it in a map to test?
19:47	bitemyapp	noprompt: sure, just trying to schedule.
19:47	rovar	{ (chan
19:47	Raynes	bitemyapp: I think I just died https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlSF0dtDRD8
19:47	rovar	meh
19:47	rovar	{ (chan) "channel 1" (chan) "channel 2" }
19:48	rovar	results in a duplicate key: (chan)
19:48	bitemyapp	rovar: only way to access that if you define it that way is (keys ...)
19:48	bitemyapp	Raynes: listening to the cotton story, it's hilarious.
19:48	noprompt	bitemyapp: yah, i'm stoked. i'm super rusty and basically back at the n00b level but this'll be good.
19:48	bbloom	,{(gensym) 1 (gensym) 2}
19:48	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Duplicate key: (gensym)>
19:48	bitemyapp	noprompt: it's fine.
19:48	bbloom	heh, well would you look at that?
19:48	bbloom	seems like a bug to me
19:49	rovar	bitemyapp, yea, I was just testing to see if it would work
19:49	rovar	that approach obviously didn't :)
19:50	arrdem	<3 anamanaguchi
19:50	noprompt	lol
19:50	noprompt	arrdem: it's allabout virt.
19:51	bitemyapp	rovar: let
19:51	arrdem	noprompt: will investigate
19:51	bbloom	technomancy: http://cardenas.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/c-rdenas-416d65726963612043616e20436f646520
19:51	arrdem	once I finish my anual AW YEAH TSO phase
19:52	swarthy	sandbar or friend?
19:52	bitemyapp	bbloom: good to see our congressmen are still figuring out ways to destroy the middle class >:D
19:52	technomancy	bbloom: thought it was a uuid at first
19:52	rovar	that worked..
19:52	bitemyapp	rovar: good.
19:53	bbloom	bitemyapp: that's the most cynical point of view, it's frankly idiotic
19:53	bitemyapp	bbloom: you're assigning a value judgment that isn't there.
19:53	bitemyapp	bbloom: commoditization of knowledge and labor is the natural order with a society organized the ways ours is. It's a good thing.
19:54	bitemyapp	bbloom: however, due to forces unrelated to software, it contributes to the weakening of the middle class. Hopefully a smarter labor force will outweigh the negatives.
19:54	noprompt	arrdem: virt fx1, fx2, fx3 <3
19:54	bbloom	technomancy: i'm concerned that the act will fail b/c nobody will want to type in that hexadecimal string all the time :-P
19:55	bitemyapp	bbloom: why would people type it in?
19:55	bitemyapp	manually, that is.
19:55	bbloom	bitemyapp: your sense of humor is broken
19:56	arrdem	bbloom: there is an open issue somewhere..
19:56	bitemyapp	bbloom: well, I know that, but do you?
19:57	Apage43	whats with the trailing space tho
19:58	noprompt	:-(
19:58	bbloom	Apage43: it's an intentional bug to teach children about the perils of append-only code bases such as our laws
19:58	bbloom	i hope.
19:59	bbloom	oh wow: https://pay.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1sqnj7/416d65726963612043616e20436f646520/ce0b9vy
19:59	technomancy	I'll see your Japan Air and raise you a Meow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc3JWo2iiGc#t=167
19:59	technomancy	oops; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc3JWo2iiGc
20:00	coventry	No way a congressman wrote a reddit post that cool without assistance.
20:01	Bronsa	bbloom: re: {(gensym) 1 (gensym) 2} -- that's throwing at read-time, I don't see a way to "fix" that
20:01	bbloom	Bronsa: you could not count unquoted lists as duplicate keys
20:02	Bronsa	bbloom: what about {[(gensym)] 1 [(gensym)] 2} then?
20:02	amalloy	bbloom: but it's not a legal map. how would you work with it?
20:02	amalloy	(get m (first (keys m))) ;; what can this possible return?
20:02	hiredman	arraymap used to not check duplicates so you could do things like that, but everyone complained
20:02	Bronsa	amalloy: it'd be legal at runtime, it's not at read-time
20:03	bbloom	just goes to show how silly little things like a duplicate check can be hard :-P
20:03	noprompt	i'm glad i don't follow politics.
20:03	amalloy	Bronsa: i know, and the compiler has to work with it at read time
20:03	Bronsa	I guess the compiler could use create instead of createWithChecking or whatever they're called
20:03	bitemyapp	noprompt: good idea.
20:03	Bronsa	amalloy: the compiler really doesn't care AFAIKT, it's only an artifact of the reader
20:05	Apage43	bbloom: oh. huh.
20:05	hiredman	anyway, I think enforcing valid datastructures at read and at runtime is for the best
20:07	bitemyapp	hiredman: true Lispers shove everything to runtime and write a bunch of error handling code.
20:07	coventry	Could the reader transform map literals into hash-map calls?
20:08	coventry	I guess that would get messy for ^{} metadata annotations.
20:09	arrdem	aaaand we've reinvented reader macros..
20:10	coventry	Not at all.
20:10	Bronsa	,'`{1 1}
20:10	clojurebot	(clojure.core/apply clojure.core/hash-map (clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat (clojure.core/list 1) (clojure.core/list 1))))
20:13	coventry	Yes, but that still fails on '`{G__# 1 G__# 2}. If the literal were transformed to (hash-map G__# 1 G__# 2), it would give sensible results, at least in this case, and duplicate keys would still fail at runtime.
20:14	Bronsa	coventry once you hit the reader, it's already too late.
20:14	Bronsa	coventry you'd have to use a parser as opposed to a reader if you wanted that to work
20:18	mysamdog	Okay, so I have this code:
20:18	mysamdog	(ns soar.site
20:18	mysamdog	(:require [domina :as dom]
20:18	mysamdog	[domina.events :as ev]))
20:18	mysamdog	(defn test []
20:18	mysamdog	(dom/append! (dom/by-id "content") "<p>Test Successful</p>"))
20:18	mysamdog
20:18	mysamdog	(defn ^:export init []
20:18	arrdem	mysamdog: PASTE PASTE PASTE
20:18	mysamdog	(if (and js/document
20:18	mysamdog	(.-getElementById js/document))
20:18	mysamdog	(ev/listen! (dom/by-id "Home") :click test)))
20:18	technomancy	~gourds
20:18	clojurebot	SQUEEZE HIM!
20:19	mysamdog	sorry, probably should have put that on refheap
20:19	swarthy	mysamdog: try http://refheap.com instead
20:19	swarthy	beat me
20:19	mysamdog	I figured it was short enough to just paste it, but then the formatting got screwed up
20:19	arrdem	unless it's a one-liner never paste
20:19	mysamdog	Good to know.
20:20	arrdem	*in channel
20:20	mysamdog	Anyway, So I'm trying to make that code append <p>Test Successful</p> to a div with id "content" when the button with id "Home" is clicked
20:21	coventry	Bronsa: What breaks if you change the (RT/map (to-array the-map))) line in tools.reader/read-map to something like (list* 'hash-map the-map)? You'd need to extend read-meta to detect such a list and try to convert it to a map at that point.
20:21	mysamdog	The part that appends the <p> works when I call it from the console, but not when the button is clicked.
20:22	bitemyapp	noprompt: so that I know when to head home, when are we hacking?
20:22	mysamdog	Here's my html: https://www.refheap.com/21703
20:22	mysamdog	I had the exact same problem when I used Dommy
20:22	bitemyapp	mysamdog: Selmer user?
20:23	noprompt	bitemyapp: i'm gonna work for probably another 30mins here and then head back home. i should be down to hack by no later than 7pm.
20:23	Bronsa	coventry I understand what you're saying, but then what you're doing is no longer reading, it's parsing & transforming
20:23	bitemyapp	noprompt: okie-dokie. I'll give some thought as to how we pair digitally.
20:23	coventry	Bronsa: and it's important to maintain that distinction for the sake of simplicity?
20:23	mysamdog	Yeah, I use Selmer
20:24	mysamdog	One sec, I'll put the code that generates the html on refheap
20:24	bitemyapp	NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
20:24	bitemyapp	technomancy: why is floobits on MELPA?!
20:24	bitemyapp	those fucking madmen
20:24	noprompt	bitemyapp: i expect you'll be driving for the majority of the session. mostly i plan to ask questions. beside you don't wanna see me squirm w/o my evil-mode keybindings. :-)
20:24	bitemyapp	don't they know what they're asking me to doooooooooo
20:24	bitemyapp	noprompt: all the same.
20:25	bitemyapp	I was thinking voice/skype + floobits or something.
20:25	mysamdog	Oh wait. I uploaded that. I meant to give you the one that the browser sees, after selmer parses it
20:25	mysamdog	One sec
20:25	bitemyapp	noprompt: if we use floobits you use your native environ.
20:25	bitemyapp	and I use mine.
20:25	noprompt	wow
20:25	bitemyapp	that's uh, the point.
20:25	coventry	Oooh. Floobits looks incredibly useful. Thanks.
20:25	noprompt	that sounds pretty cool.
20:25	bitemyapp	noprompt: https://floobits.com/ technomancy reminded me it existed last night after dinner.
20:25	Bronsa	coventry AFAIK a lisp reader is just a special-case of a parser, whose special-ness is that it "outputs" the data it reads-in into its internal representation, if you take that away.. it's no longer a reader
20:25	bitemyapp	good timing on his part.
20:26	mysamdog	https://www.refheap.com/21704
20:26	bitemyapp	technomancy: see, this MELPA installation, this is why I end up vendoring everything.
20:26	arrdem	bitemyapp: vendoring?
20:27	bitemyapp	arrdem: the reason I have 400,000 LOC in my .emacs.d
20:27	bitemyapp	arrdem: I vendor 90% of the code I use.
20:27	bitemyapp	because I have zero patience for things breaking.
20:28	bitemyapp	floobits-summon and floobits-join-workspace <--- cool.
20:28	bitemyapp	noprompt: so yah, get a floobits account.
20:28	bitemyapp	then we'll rock.
20:28	coventry	Bronsa: OK. I'm curious about why you want a reader as opposed to a parser, though.
20:28	technomancy	bitemyapp: node.js, man
20:29	bitemyapp	noprompt: free plan has zero private workspaces, but this works fine, it's open source work anyway.
20:29	Bronsa	coventry: I don't. It's the Lisp Way™ though.
20:29	bitemyapp	This is wicked if it ends up working
20:30	arrdem	noprompt: do like.
20:30	noprompt	arrdem: such a killer song.
20:30	coventry	Maybe I'll submit a patch to LispReader.java, then.
20:30	mysamdog	So, uh, any thoughts on what's wrong with my code?
20:30	bitemyapp	we live in the future!
20:30	Bronsa	coventry I doubt it'll ever make through
20:31	bitemyapp	mysamdog: I see HTML, not code. What's breaking and what's the code?
20:31	bitemyapp	mysamdog: include more context in your refheap, it helps people to help you faster.
20:31	coventry	Bronsa: Because of the reader/parser distinction?
20:31	arrdem	bitemyapp: pair editing over shared VTTY has been a thing for over a decade...
20:31	bitemyapp	arrdem: floobits isn't VTTY
20:31	bitemyapp	arrdem: did you look at it?
20:31	technomancy	yeah the whole point of floobits is just that you can pair with vim users
20:32	bitemyapp	arrdem: each person works in their native environment.
20:32	arrdem	bitemyapp: yes I saw how floobits works, and it's awesome. I'm just making the point that remote pair work isn't new.
20:32	coventry	Can you share a repl/interactive python buffer in floobits?
20:32	technomancy	emacs:emacs floobits doesn't make a lot of sense
20:32	bitemyapp	arrdem: that's not the part that makes it the future, it's the cross-client part.
20:32	bitemyapp	technomancy: what's the name of the emacs native one?
20:32	technomancy	bitemyapp: rudel
20:32	technomancy	well
20:33	technomancy	it's not emacs-native
20:33	mysamdog	Here's the .cljs file: https://www.refheap.com/21705
20:33	bitemyapp	technomancy: but it was made for emacs.
20:33	technomancy	bitemyapp: but the only other implementation is gobby, which is a pretty lame editor
20:33	technomancy	no
20:33	bitemyapp	oh, wow.
20:33	mysamdog	And I'll go get the last 500 lines of the .js file I get
20:33	technomancy	gobby implemented the protocol first
20:33	bitemyapp	technomancy: weird.
20:33	Bronsa	https://floobits.com/code_roulette/ so sad.
20:34	noprompt	bitemyapp: so are we using this thing or not?
20:34	mysamdog	Here's the last 500 lines of my js: https://www.refheap.com/21706
20:34	technomancy	I'd rather be using rudel than floobits, but it's not supported by vim
20:35	noprompt	technomancy: if it supports emacs that's good, i just use the evil-keybindings.
20:35	technomancy	noprompt: if you're willing to do that just use tmux =)
20:35	technomancy	much easier to share shells/repls that way
20:36	noprompt	technomancy: so am i to understand floobits won't be a good solution here?
20:36	bitemyapp	noprompt: if I can figure it out, yes.
20:37	bitemyapp	technomancy: I don't use evil mode, he does.
20:37	technomancy	right, but you can toggle that with a single binding
20:37	noprompt	technomancy: which i have w/ key-chord
20:38	technomancy	different strokes for different folks; use whatever works for you
20:38	bitemyapp	I don't have a key combo for it. I could add one.
20:38	bitemyapp	technomancy: I mostly just want to test floobits. We've discussed how I want to hammer out processes for remote working at my company.
20:38	bitemyapp	vim and sublime text are popular with my coworkers.
20:38	noprompt	the haskell mode indention has to be tweaked for evil-mode.
20:38	bitemyapp	noprompt: lol fuck that then
20:38	bitemyapp	using my editor. I like my smart ident.
20:39	noprompt	bitemyapp: nah all you have to do is turn it off.
20:39	noprompt	(setq evil-auto-indent nil)
20:39	bitemyapp	I'll set it in my haskell-config JIC then
20:41	noprompt	bitemyapp: other than that i'm pretty happy w/ the basic rollout. i won't demand any of my other fancy stuff.
20:41	noprompt	technomancy: btw, how do i get recentf files to show up when i use switch-buffer?
20:41	noprompt	technomancy: i'm being lazy.
20:42	technomancy	noprompt: ido-use-virtual-buffers
20:42	technomancy	unfortunately uniquify doesn't work on the recentf buffers =(
20:43	technomancy	but pretty handy apart from that
20:43	bitemyapp	Raynes: I'm telling people to use Tentacles so that they complain at you.
20:46	bitemyapp	Bronsa: https://floobits.com/active/
20:47	bitemyapp	noprompt: there's some code I need to push on my other computer, but this seems to at least exist.
20:48	pcn	Is there a time function that'l convert time into seconds + millis?
20:48	technomancy	juxt!
20:49	Bronsa	bitemyapp: hopped in :)
20:49	technomancy	,((juxt / mod) (System/currentTimeInMillis) 1000)
20:49	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.NoSuchFieldException: currentTimeInMillis, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
20:49	technomancy	yeah yeah whatever clojurebot
20:49	llasram	,((juxt quot mod) (System/currentTimeMillis) 1000)
20:49	noprompt	technomancy: thanks!
20:49	clojurebot	[1386899366 255]
20:50	llasram	Probably `quot` too :-)
20:50	technomancy	~juxt
20:50	clojurebot	juxt is a little hard to grok but it's the best thing ever
20:50	llasram	~quot
20:50	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
20:50	pmap	do you guys think it's possible to do a real-time display of a changing 2d pixel array with seesaw?
20:50	llasram	gee, thanks clojurebot
20:51	llasram	pmap: Hard real-time, or just like 60 frames a second?
20:51	pmap	it wouldn't even have to be 60 frames per second
20:51	llasram	Then definitely
20:52	pmap	you think you could do it with no java interop?
20:53	llasram	Err. I don't know. I saw you wrote "seesaw" but just then immediate thought "Java2D"
20:53	pmap	yeah
20:53	pmap	I know it's definitely possible with java
20:54	pmap	do you think it'd be much effort doing that through java interop?
20:55	pcn	llasram: thanks I'll try that
20:57	coventry	Hmm, not a ringing endorsement for rudel: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2375473/emacs-collaborative-buffers-open-in-the-wrong-mode#comment12957400_2375473
20:57	llasram	pmap: I personally don't think direct interop is that big a deal. But also haven't used seeswa much, -- it might provide a better experience, depending on your problem
20:58	llasram	I wonder how hard it would be to some sort of cider-eclim integration, so you could get interop autocompletion for classes and methods via eclim
21:02	noprompt	bitemyapp: alright, i'm gonna bounce home here in a bit.
21:10	coventry	There's no trick for destructuring a ::namespace-qualified kw out of a map like with :keys, is there?
21:10	amalloy	coventry: just the general map destructuring, no :keys shortcut
21:11	coventry	amalloy: Thanks.
21:17	pmap	llasram: I do it when it's necessary, but I'd always rather do things in pure clojure.
21:18	coventry	pmap: Clojure is on the JVM partly because java does some things well, and it's idiomatic to utilize it for those things.
21:19	pmap	well I have to go walk for 10 minutes in the snow to get to my school's computer lab right now
21:19	pmap	I'll be back
21:19	coventry	Enjoy!
21:20	pmap	piping the X11 output from their 64 core hasn't been working for me
21:20	pmap	over ssh
21:20	ivan	try NX?
21:20	pmap	so I gotta use one of their sun machines
21:20	pmap	never heard of nx
21:21	pmap	no time to try new things though
21:21	pmap	tomorrow's the last day of the semester :S
21:22	pmap	though I'll want to try things like that once I'm back home 4 hours away
21:22	pmap	see you all in a bit...
21:25	pcn	what exactly is ,(...) ? I can't find documentation on it
21:28	rovar	i'm having a hard time serving a js file via ring/compojure
21:28	jcromartie	pcn: it's nothing… where do you see it?
21:28	rovar	I've set a handler : (resources "/js" {:root "js"})
21:28	llasram	pcn: It's just how you tell clojurebot bot to eval code
21:28	llasram	,:fun!
21:28	clojurebot	:fun!
21:28	rovar	the file is compiled and present, but the server is returning a 404 upon request
21:29	jcromartie	pcn: oh, the comma :)
21:29	rovar	,(repeatedly 5 (rand-int))
21:29	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: core/rand-int>
21:29	rovar	,(repeatedly 5 (rand-int 10))
21:29	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
21:29	jcromartie	rovar: where is your JS file located in the filesystem?
21:29	rovar	jcromartie, target/resources/js/
21:30	jcromartie	rovar: just put it in resources/js/
21:30	rovar	I'm just re-using an existing webchat example
21:30	jcromartie	and the URL should be /js/whatever.js
21:30	rovar	what are the rules for where ring looks for said files?
21:30	jcromartie	since you're specifying a certain base URL and a base resource bath
21:30	jcromartie	it's loaded from the classpath
21:31	rovar	the url is /js/whatever.js
21:31	jcromartie	via Java's resource loading
21:31	rovar	there is an edn file in resources/
21:31	rovar	a frodo config
21:31	rovar	I don't really want to go serving that, do I?
21:32	jcromartie	no, that's why compojure's `resources' defaults to serving the files in resources/public
21:32	jcromartie	but you've overridden that with {:root "js"
21:32	rovar	so putting it in resources/js/ fixed it
21:32	rovar	is that a recent change?
21:33	rovar	I'm just curious as to why everything seems to compile to target/...
21:33	jcromartie	no
21:33	jcromartie	that's where compiled output goes
21:33	jcromartie	and resources are inside the produced jar
21:34	jcromartie	your source and resource paths all get copied into the final jar
21:34	rovar	right.. and there's a resources dir.. and a js dir in that.. why wouldn't compojure/ring look there for static files to serve?
21:34	jcromartie	...
21:34	rovar	inside of target/ i mean
21:34	jcromartie	when you run "lein run" or "lein ring server" it does not use the output in target/
21:35	jcromartie	target/whatever.jar is just the output of "lein jar" or AOT compilation form "lein compile"
21:35	jcromartie	from*
21:35	jcromartie	how are you running your app?
21:36	rovar	lein dev
21:36	jcromartie	the short answer to "why" is: because target/ is not on the classpath
21:36	jcromartie	what's lein dev? sorry, never used it
21:38	rovar	it's just an alias for running a few things in order, pdo. cljsbuild auto, frodo
21:38	rovar	(as far as I understand lein)
21:39	jcromartie	OK
21:40	jcromartie	so I don't know about those specific plugins, but I don't think they run from any compiled output in target/
21:40	jcromartie	maybe?
21:41	jcromartie	but either way, for interactive purposes ("lein run", "lein repl", "lein ring server" etc.) the classpath includes ./resources/ ./src/ ./test/ etc.
21:41	jcromartie	not target/
21:41	rovar	jcromartie, good to know
21:42	rovar	ok.. I have a question about channels and go blocks...
21:43	rovar	I have a go-loop.. and from within that loop I call a multimethod
21:43	rovar	and in that multimethod I call >!
21:43	rovar	and it asserts saying that >! is not used in (go ...) block
21:43	rovar	but the function is being called from a function that is clearly in the go block..
21:44	llasram	rovar: You can only use >! etc lexically within a `go` block
21:44	jcromartie	rovar: because it needs to literally be inside the go block
21:45	rovar	but.. I.. err..
21:45	jcromartie	the `go' macro actually recompiles all of the code inside of it into a crazy state machine :)
21:45	jcromartie	yeah
21:46	rovar	wow.. it would have been nice to know that before I made this beautiful multimethod for my wire protocol
21:46	rovar	I guess I could change it to pattern matching, but I will be wearing a sad face..
21:50	rovar	how can I include a " in a string in clojure?
21:51	dsrx	\"
21:51	bitemyapp	noprompt: home now.
21:51	dsrx	, "hello \"world\""
21:51	clojurebot	"hello \"world\""
21:51	noprompt	bitemyapp: yeah just got here.
21:51	dsrx	,(println "hello \"world\"")
21:51	clojurebot	hello "world"\n
21:51	dsrx	,(print "hello \"world\"")
21:51	clojurebot	hello "world"
21:51	dsrx	there we go.
21:52	rovar	any clever way to wrap a string in quotes?
21:52	rovar	,(str "\"" "blah" "\"")
21:52	clojurebot	"\"blah\""
21:53	coventry	,(str \" "blah" \")
21:53	clojurebot	"\"blah\""
21:53	jcromartie	(defn wrap-quotes [x] (apply str (take 3 (flatten (cycle ["\u0022" x])))))
21:53	jcromartie	you wanted clever?
21:53	rovar	,(read "\"blah\"")
21:53	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.io.PushbackReader>
21:54	rovar	jcromartie, I deserved that.
21:54	rovar	,(read-string "\"blah\"")
21:54	clojurebot	"blah"
21:54	rovar	,(read-string "{:mykey \"blah\""})
21:54	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: }>
21:54	dsrx	jcromartie: not point-free style, not "clever" enough
21:54	rovar	,(read-string "{:mykey \"blah\"}")
21:54	clojurebot	{:mykey "blah"}
21:55	coventry	rovar: Is that the reason you want to do the wrapping?
21:55	coventry	,(pr-str {:mykey "blah})
21:55	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string>
21:56	coventry	,(pr-str {:mykey "blah"})
21:56	clojurebot	"{:mykey \"blah\"}"
21:56	rovar	coventry, yes, I'm sending messages in from a browser and they're interpreted as strings, i want to read them in as edn
21:56	bitemyapp	noprompt: about to order food
22:00	coventry	rovar: pr-str may be what you want, then.
22:02	gfredericks	reiddraper: I just realized defspec is incompatible with clojure.test :each fixtures, isn't it?
22:04	reiddraper	gfredericks: I'm not familiar with that, but totally possible
22:06	gfredericks	reiddraper: I want to clear the database before each run of a test; now that I'm using defspec that's problematic
22:07	seangrove	coventry: Would be curious to hear how rudel works out
22:08	coventry	Sounds like technomancy has used it in anger.
22:08	coventry	Its marmalade package install is broken, so I have punted on it for now.
22:13	seangrove	I tried floobits out between a vim and emacs session, and it was ok-ish
22:13	seangrove	Seems like it's a pretty difficult problem to tackle well
22:22	coventry	Yeah, it needs a shared shell/repl facility to really be useful, for starters.
22:22	coventry	bitemyapp, noprompt: are you guys going to use floobits?
22:24	justin_smith	I tried pair programming in google wave once
22:25	justin_smith	even started worked on a multi-cursor mode for emacs that took in external commands (did not get far with that project)
22:32	arrdem	floobits' python component bombs for me... filing bug report.
22:35	bitemyapp	coventry: hangouts first.
22:35	bitemyapp	coventry: I might install floobits while I'm eating.
22:35	coventry	Makes sense.
22:39	ldk	fwiw, pair programming really doesnt' require two cursors, just one shared one is ideal
22:39	ldk	Taking turns driving is where the benefits of pairing come from
22:40	ldk	You can pair effectively with ssh + screen/tmux + any editor
22:41	technomancy	yeah, two cursors is actually a disadvantage for pairing
22:44	rovar	,(defn wrap-quotes #{ apply str (-> ["\u0022" %] cycle flatten (partial take 3) (partial apply str) })
22:44	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: }>
22:45	rovar	,(defn wrap-quotes #{ -> ["\u0022" %] cycle flatten (partial take 3) (partial apply str) })
22:45	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Parameter declaration #{["\"" %] (partial apply str) cycle -> (partial take 3) ...} should be a vector>
22:46	rovar	,(defn wrap-quotes #{ (-> ["\u0022" %] cycle flatten (partial take 3) str) })
22:46	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Parameter declaration #{(-> ["\"" %] cycle flatten (partial take 3) ...)} should be a vector>
22:47	rovar	,(def wrap-quotes #{ (-> ["\u0022" %] cycle flatten (partial take 3) str) })
22:47	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: % in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
22:47	rovar	,(def wrap-quotes #{ (-> ["\u0022" %1] cycle flatten (partial take 3) str) })
22:47	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: %1 in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
22:47	coventry	rovar: You want def, not defn.
22:47	rovar	,(defn wrap-quotes [x] #{ (-> ["\u0022" x] cycle flatten (partial take 3) str) })
22:47	clojurebot	#'sandbox/wrap-quotes
22:47	arrdem	coventry: he got that
22:47	rovar	,(wrap-quotes "testing")
22:47	clojurebot	#{"clojure.core$partial$fn__4198@54d7ac"}
22:48	rovar	not quite :P
22:48	arrdem	rovar: what are you doing with that set?
22:49	arrdem	,(defn wrap-quotes [x] (-> ["\u0022" x] cycle flatten (partial take 3) str set))
22:49	clojurebot	#'sandbox/wrap-quotes
22:49	arrdem	,(wrap-quotes "testing")
22:49	clojurebot	#{\@ \a \b \c \$ ...}
22:49	rovar	I just want to wrap a string in quotes
22:49	rovar	the hard way
22:49	arrdem	,(defn wrap-quotes [x] (format "\"%s\"" x))
22:49	clojurebot	#'sandbox/wrap-quotes
22:50	arrdem	,(wrap-quotes "testing")
22:50	clojurebot	"\"testing\""
22:50	rovar	this was actually in response to jcromartie's response where he was chided for not providing a point free solution
22:50	rovar	so I decided to take a whack at a point free solution
22:50	arrdem	point-free?
22:51	xpe	,````````x
22:51	clojurebot	#<StackOverflowError java.lang.StackOverflowError>
22:51	rovar	basically coding by not passing variables, only composing functions.
22:53	arrdem	,(def wrap-quotes (comp (partial interpose " ") (partial apply str) (partial format "\"%s\"")))
22:53	clojurebot	#'sandbox/wrap-quotes
22:54	arrdem	,(wrap-quotes "testing")
22:54	clojurebot	(\" " " \t " " \e ...)
22:58	justin_smith	you can /msg him for that :)
22:59	arrdem	or I could just M-x jack-in on ~/scratch.clj :P
23:06	rovar	alc
23:06	rovar	arg
23:06	rovar	I have a (match [] .. et up
23:06	rovar	set up
23:07	rovar	but I keep getting "No matching clause ..."
23:07	rovar	even when I have the correct values
23:07	rovar	regardless, I have an :else clause that it also seems to be ignoring..
23:17	rovar	is there a better way to fetch the same key from a hash-map of hash-maps?
23:17	arrdem	,(doc get-in)
23:17	clojurebot	"([m ks] [m ks not-found]); Returns the value in a nested associative structure, where ks is a sequence of keys. Returns nil if the key is not present, or the not-found value if supplied."
23:17	rovar	(map :name (vals mymap))
23:18	arrdem	rovar: no that's fine
23:18	arrdem	rovar: (map (comp second :name) ..) alternatively...
23:22	rovar	I want all of the :name's though..
23:22	rovar	not just the first one
23:22	rovar	i swear there was a function for that..
23:22	rovar	oh well.
23:23	justin_smith	arrdem: I think that's backwards
23:23	arrdem	,(doc comp)
23:23	clojurebot	"([] [f] [f g] [f g h] [f1 f2 f3 & fs]); Takes a set of functions and returns a fn that is the composition of those fns. The returned fn takes a variable number of args, applies the rightmost of fns to the args, the next fn (right-to-left) to the result, etc."
23:23	arrdem	justin_smith: yerp.
23:23	rovar	I knew what he meant
23:24	rovar	so I still can't figure out this match thing
23:24	rovar	maybe it's an old version
23:29	rovar	oh.. i had a paren mismatch, but the entire match case was still somehow syntactically correct..
23:29	rovar	err..
23:29	rovar	just not semantically..
23:30	justin_smith	clojure has lots of multi-arity fns that do that
23:33	brand0	I'm glad that guy's blackmail thread was deleted
23:34	brand0	if he's for underground markets, as he says, then why not leave it at "I hacked ___" here's the proof, don't use this market
23:34	brand0	why go after people sticking their necks out and running these markets?
23:34	arrdem	brand0: wrong channel?
23:34	brand0	big time
23:34	brand0	lol
23:34	arrdem	brand0: I mean nice to see you but that's #atx2600 or #aha :P
23:38	rovar	is there a way I could get around this go block restriction for channels?
23:38	rovar	I mean, I'd really like to clean up this code with functions..
23:39	rovar	I mean I guess I could eval a function string, but that seems harsh..
23:40	justin_smith	wait, you can't call functions inside go blocks? that's absurd
23:40	justin_smith	of course you can
23:40	tbaldridge	yeah you can call functions inside of gos
23:40	rovar	you can.. but not functions that call >! or <!
23:41	rovar	so I have, for instance, a function called broadcast which I call in the case of many different messages
23:41	rovar	which does what you might expect..
23:41	tbaldridge	rovar: use pub instead?
23:42	tbaldridge	or perhaps mux, both are used to broadcast msgs
23:42	rovar	hmm
23:44	rovar	i'm actually using the chord wrapper around http-kit websockets
23:44	rovar	so it presents the core.async api, but I am not sure if it provides the pub/sub yet..
23:45	tbaldridge	well you can always use pipe + pub/sub
23:46	rovar	not familiar...
23:46	tbaldridge	chord hands you a channel like thing right? A "output" channel.
23:47	rovar	both input and output, yea
23:47	rovar	inside of its with-channel macro
23:47	tbaldridge	So on one end you should be able to take the chord channel and sub it into a pub.
23:48	tbaldridge	Or on the other end create a pub that uses the chord channel as the input channel
23:48	rovar	I'm not seeing any docs for pubsub.. other than a gist..
23:48	rovar	I like the pubsub model, largely because I'll have several hierarchies of broadcast..
23:49	tbaldridge	http://clojure.github.io/core.async/#clojure.core.async/pub
23:51	rovar	also must be called in a go block?
23:51	tbaldridge	nope
23:52	tbaldridge	<! >! alt! and alts! are the only things that have to be in go blocks
23:53	rovar	neat..
23:53	rovar	tbaldridge, thanks for your help. Now the conundrum.. have to be at work in 8 hours, need sleep.. want to try..
23:53	tbaldridge	lol, I hear that
23:56	bbloom	tbaldridge: i haven't been paying attention, seems like there are some more channel utils worth studying :-)
23:56	tbaldridge	yeah, we've added a ton of new stuff in the past 2 months or so
23:57	bbloom	it's fun to see how close they are to my asyncx implementations :-) but i only really did the < variants
23:57	rovar	are there examples anywhere? i'm having a hard time grokking the big picture of pubs and also the mult/tap bits
23:58	tbaldridge	this might help, I have a few examples here: https://github.com/halgari/clojure-conj-2013-core.async-examples/blob/master/src/clojure_conj_talk/core.clj
23:59	rovar	a..