#clojure – 2013-11-05

2013-11-05

02:10	luxbock	is it possible to have clojure-mode syntax-highlighting available in the nrepl/cider buffer?
02:43	makkalot	hi, i'm trying austin with clojurescript on emacs (newbie) , the C-c C-k doesn't work anymore, any ideas ?
03:15	dmi3y	hi, guys. I'm building a simple rest api in ring and compojure. For some reason my get handler that returns json returns it with header "application/octet-stream;charset=ISO-8859-1" while I'm expecting it to be "application/json". I'm using (wrap-json-response) as middleware. What am I missing here?
03:21	ZujkisNx	Hi, I'm trying to start JAR file which should be a server written in clojure with all dependencies.. but no luck starting it in linux. I'm noob so maybe anyone could tell me how to do it?.. googling for a few hours and still havent figured it out.. :/
03:21	dmi3y	I got it, here's the explanation https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring-json
03:23	ZujkisNx	dmi3y: maybe you know how to run JAR as a server? :)
03:26	dmi3y	@ZujkisNx isn't it "lein ring uberjar" ?
03:27	ZujkisNx	dmi3y: ty, now trying lein uberjar. :)
03:51	ZujkisNx	I'm trying to run server.jar with "java -jar server.jar" and getting error: "Could not bind to port: 61221".. Any hints? :)
03:57	beppu	ZujkisNx: Type this in your shell: lsof -i :61221
03:57	beppu	It will tell you what process bound that port.
04:10	ZujkisNx	beppu: thx! :) You're great! Good luck!
04:14	beppu	ZujkisNx: glad I could help.
04:14	beppu	:)
04:32	smiler	Any idea on howto debug the cljsbuild repl-listen thingy? I get the iframe loaded into my DOM but the repl is unresponsive, (+ 1 1) just stalls the repl.
04:41	beppu	smiler: I wish I knew. That happens to me a lot. Sometimes, I get lucky and it works, but who knows why.
04:42	smiler	I had it working then it just didn't work anymore..
04:42	beppu	i know that feeling
04:43	smiler	No idea what I might have done to break it.
04:43	smiler	Only thing my app is doing is a .log js/console call :)
04:45	ShawnMcCool	what's the preferred ide/editor for clojure in linux?
04:45	ShawnMcCool	i'm assuming vim, if so what plugin is hot right now?
04:46	beppu	smiler, I got lucky and the cljs repl magically worked when I just tried it. I'm using dnolen's mies lein template to get started. http://swannodette.github.io/2013/10/27/the-essence-of-clojurescript/
04:46	ucb	ShawnMcCool: it varies. Emacs has very good support and so does Eclipse afaik
04:47	smiler	beppu: I use something similar. I'll try create a new project.
04:48	ShawnMcCool	so, emacs is sorta hot in the clojure world then?
04:49	beppu	smiler, lein new mies wtf; cd wtf; lein trampoline cljsbuild repl-listen; thttpd -p 8888; open "http://localhost:8888/"
04:50	beppu	I think part of the trick is to don't open the page until repl-listen is ready to do work.
04:50	beppu	(replace thttpd with the local web server of your choice)
04:53	smiler	beppu: No build step? And the default code dosen't have any (repl/connect) in it
04:53	beppu	actually, i forgot the build step. sorry about that.
04:54	smiler	:)
04:55	beppu	unfortunately, i was not so lucky this time. the cljs repl seems like such a cool thing, but I can't get it to work every time. :-/
04:55	smiler	Didn't work for me either.
04:58	smiler	Hmm
04:59	beppu	smiler: dude, I'm an idiot.
04:59	smiler	It works when I use firefox instead of chrome ;/
04:59	beppu	I actually added some code.
04:59	beppu	oh?
04:59	beppu	Maybe I should try ff, too.
04:59	beppu	smiler: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7316593
05:00	smiler	Yea, exactly..
05:01	beppu	smiler: oh wow, ff worked on the first try. weird, but good to know.
05:02	smiler	That's an annoyance for sure..
05:02	beppu	I've grown accustomed to chrome's debugging tools.
05:02	smiler	Dito
05:06	clgv	$last ztellman
05:06	smiler	I can execute (+ 1 1) while having a chrome window open and it stalls. Then pointing a firefox instance to the same place makes the evaluation complete.
05:06	lazybot	Couldn't find that user.
05:06	clgv	$last zachtellman
05:06	lazybot	Couldn't find that user.
05:06	clgv	$last tellman
05:06	lazybot	tellman last listened to: Journey - Any Way You Want It [Greatest Hits]
05:06	clgv	up
05:07	clgv	$when tellman
05:08	clgv	$seen tellman
05:08	lazybot	I have never seen tellman.
05:08	clgv	$seen ztellman
05:08	lazybot	ztellman was last seen quitting 5 hours and 21 minutes ago.
05:08	beppu	smiler, The way Chrome sends the long-polling HTTP request to localhost:9000 must be different from the way FF is doing it.
05:09	smiler	Sounds reasonable
05:09	beppu	Not in the mood to debug that one. too noob at the moment at this cljs business.
05:09	smiler	The repl is a part of cljsbuild, not clojurescript itself right?
05:09	beppu	I believe so.
05:10	beppu	smiler: https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/blob/master/plugin/src/leiningen/cljsbuild.clj#L152-L161
05:11	smiler	Right
05:15	beppu	https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/blob/master/support/src/cljsbuild/repl/listen.clj
05:16	beppu	(surprisingly small)
05:17	smiler	https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/clj/cljs/repl/browser.clj is the meat I think
05:18	beppu	looks like it.
05:23	smiler	I tossed up an issue at https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/issues/262. Maybe someone can shed some light on it.
05:26	andrewmcveigh\|wo	Say I have some clojure/edn config datastructure(s) on the server (ring/etc.), and I want the client (cljs) to be able to read it on load. What is the best way to do this? Embed edn as string in a js var? json? some other way?
05:27	beppu	smiler: I just came across this: https://github.com/cemerick/austin
05:27	beppu	alternative browser repl
05:28	andrewmcveigh\|wo	smiler: beppu: I've had better luck with austin's browser repl.
05:28	smiler	I'll give it a shot
05:31	beppu	( going to sleep now. good luck, smiler )
05:31	smiler	Night night
05:46	sritchie	smiler: made one comment
05:46	sritchie	smiler: I can get a connection by manually doing the connect at the console
05:46	sritchie	always works...
05:46	sritchie	but not on reload, always
05:46	sritchie	really weird
05:47	smiler	Thanks, I'll check it out after lunch.
05:47	sritchie	lunch! I'm off to bed here in pst :)
05:47	sritchie	smiler: good luck, I'll keep an eye on the ticket
05:47	smiler	:) Take care
05:56	ubikation	I'm sorry, but can someone help me with this error? thank you!
06:14	dav	(let [b (cons 1 b)] (take 5 b)) <= self reference not working with let while it works fine with def. Is there a trick to resolve that?
06:17	andyfingerhut	dav: Maybe, but not that I can think of off hand. letfn is more like Scheme's letrec, but only for binding functions, not arbitrary values.
06:17	dav	andyfingerhut: yes :(
06:17	dav	letfn is mutual but let isn't :-(
06:18	andyfingerhut	For the particular use case you show, cycle would create the infinite lazy sequence you specify
06:18	dav	andyfingerhut: yes I know that I have a more complex use case in mind ;-)
06:19	dav	on top of that i assume there's no sharing if I use letfn .. :(
06:19	hyPiRion	no sharing?
06:19	andyfingerhut	dav: Sounds like our knowledge of the possibilities in this area run out at about the same place, then :-)
06:21	llasram	dav: Also, self-referencing lazy sequences are not really supported, even though you can make them work with vars
06:22	hyPiRion	,(letfn [(my-odd? [a] (not (my-even? a))) (my-even? [a] (or (zero? a) (my-odd? (dec a))))] (map my-odd? (range 0 10)))
06:22	clojurebot	(false true false true false ...)
06:35	ubikation	I'm sorry, but can someone help me with this error? thank you! https://gist.github.com/ubikation/7317317
06:36	andyfingerhut	ubikation: Are you using Leiningen to retrieve and manage dependencies?
06:37	ubikation	andyfingerhut: yes
06:38	andyfingerhut	Is it really spelled "ative" and not "active"? Adding project.clj to your gist might help others help you.
06:51	honza	i have a vector of functions and want to "unroll" it so i can use it in a (->) form - so i need something like (apply) but for macros - the documentation says however that (apply-macro) is evil
06:52	andyfingerhut	honza: Maybe you want ((apply comp my-fn-vec) args) ?
06:53	andyfingerhut	honza: Or something near that.
06:53	honza	andyfingerhut: welp, that's perfect! thanks
07:05	ubikation	andyfingerhut: I am sure it should be ative
07:05	ubikation	(use 'dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet)
07:05	ubikation	and I changed my workspace in the cider repl to the one I am working on but it still doesn't work...
07:05	ubikation	and lein deps doesn't complain or anything
07:06	andyfingerhut	ubikation: Are you saying that (use 'dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet) gives no errors in the same REPL session where the gist (ns ...) expression gives an error?
07:06	smiler	cemerick: Hey. I followed your tip and tried out austin. I got the example to work but I fail to integrate it into my minimal app. I don't get anything injected to my DOM nor do I see any connections being made to the repl. Does it need to be used from jetty instead of using my already existant apache setup?
07:06	ubikation	no I get an error for both forms
07:06	ubikation	and my project.clj is here: https://gist.github.com/ubikation/7318107
07:07	cemerick	smiler: austin doesn't depend upon any particular web server. Are you seeing any errors, etc?
07:08	smiler	cemerick: No, I just don't get any response. The app is the same as in the gist linked to the bug report except for a plugin dependency on [com.cemerick/austin "0.1.1"] and :require [clojure.browser.repl]. Do need to add anything else to inject the required JS?
07:09	cemerick	smiler: Yes. Did you read https://github.com/cemerick/austin/tree/master/browser-connected-repl-sample
07:09	smiler	That's the thing I'm trying to follow
07:09	cemerick	smiler: well, there's more to it than changing the dep and adding a require :-)
07:10	ubikation	it's weird because the error just came out of nowhere... I had a working repl with it loaded a day or so ago and then it just quit working properly
07:11	andyfingerhut	ubikation: I tried a new project with that project.clj here, and no errors on the use. Did you perhaps wipe out your local ~/.m2 repo?
07:11	smiler	cemerick: Ah, the [:script (cemerick.austin.repls/browser-connected-repl-js)] part
07:11	smiler	Hmm
07:12	andyfingerhut	ubikation: e.g. do you see any files listed from output of a command like 'find ~/.m2 \| grep docjure', assuming you are on a Unix-like OS?
07:12	cemerick	Or similar, depending on what you're using for templating, etc
07:12	smiler	Nothing at all atm. I'm trying to make a client side thingy as I learn this.
07:13	andyfingerhut	Chas! So this is the time of day I have to be on channel to see you talk live?
07:14	ubikation	yeah I just rm -rf'd my ~/.m2 and did lein deps again... same issue
07:14	smiler	cemerick: I'm using some slides from a presentation I attened a while ago. That thing uses domina, I guess I can use that to inject the JS into the DOM somehow.
07:15	andyfingerhut	ubikation: You saw it re-retrieve a bunch of stuff? Try 'lein clean', too, perhaps? If that doesn't do it, I'm close to stumped.
07:15	cemerick	smiler: sounds like you have a static HTML page?
07:15	smiler	cemerick: Yep
07:15	andyfingerhut	ubikation: What lein version?
07:15	cemerick	smiler: you can configure austin to use a fixed port number and session ID; though, you'll be limited to just one REPL at a time
07:16	ubikation	lein 2.3.3
07:17	cemerick	smiler: https://github.com/cemerick/austin/blob/master/src/clj/cemerick/austin.clj#L28
07:17	ubikation	what is the best way to test it outside of emacs? maybe I am doing something weird in cider since I don't really get it yet
07:17	andyfingerhut	ubikation: lein repl
07:17	cemerick	smiler: You can use a particular session ID by providing the corresponding keyword argument to cemerick.austin/repl-env
07:18	ubikation	huh
07:18	ubikation	wait (use '(dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet)) works but (:use [dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet]) doesn't?
07:19	smiler	cemerick: That feels a bit ugly I think. Would it work to append the result from cemerick.austin.repls/browser-connected-repl-js into a script tag?
07:19	andyfingerhut	could be. It is much more common to leave off the [] around namespaces in :use statements if there is just a single namespace.
07:20	cemerick	smiler: that's exactly what [:script (cemerick.austin.repls/browser-connected-repl-js)] does :-)
07:22	andyfingerhut	ubikation: I think (use '(dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet)) doesn't work. It just doesn't give an error
07:23	ubikation	andyfingerhut: I get "excel-test.core=> (use '(dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet))
07:23	ubikation	nil
07:23	ubikation	"
07:24	luxbock	any ideas why I'm unable to start paredit (or any of the other modes) in the cider repl?
07:24	luxbock	https://gist.github.com/luxbock/d9ed7a4ccfed8cdf7875
07:24	luxbock	here is my setup
07:24	andyfingerhut	ubikation: me, too, but (apropos "she") afterwords returns no symbols, whereas it does if I do (use 'dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet)
07:25	andyfingerhut	ubikation: Hence my belief that the parens around the namespace in use are causing the use to do nothing, with no error
07:29	andyfingerhut	ubikation: I'm looking at the source for load-libs, since I've edited it recently for a proposed Clojure patch with better error messages, and it does appear that (use '(dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet)) does absolutely nothing with no error.
07:30	andyfingerhut	ubikation: I included something as part of my patch to catch that with an error, I believe, but it was out of scope for the ticket. Guess it is time to file another ticket.
07:30	smiler	cemerick: Cool. I should be able to inject it then.
07:33	ubikation	andyfingerhut: oh... that's weird. so what is use supposed to return? also, what form are you using to load it in the lein repl?
07:33	andyfingerhut	ubikation: To do a successful load, (use 'dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet)
07:34	andyfingerhut	ubikation: I think use/require/ns always return nil, if they do not throw an exception
07:36	ubikation	andyfingerhut: what about turning it into a namespace declaration that works in the repl? right now I am trying "(ns excel-test.core (use [dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet :refer :all]
07:36	ubikation	[clojure.core.match :only (match) :refer :all]))" to no avail
07:37	andyfingerhut	ubikation: Definitely needs :use instead of use when inside ns
07:37	glosoli	Isn't use some sort of deprecated ?
07:37	andyfingerhut	ubikation: But probably more changes. I don't dream correct ns syntax yet.
07:40	andyfingerhut	ubikation: (ns excel-test.core (:use dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet [clojure.core.match :only (match)])) seems to work
07:40	andyfingerhut	ubikation: Not sure what you are trying to accomplish with the :only (match) :refer :all
07:43	andyfingerhut	ubikation: Don't mean to be rude, but time for me to crawl back into bed for 2nd sleep.
07:45	smiler	cemerick: Aw snap. Trying to inject it using domina seems to try inject it too late. JS execution has already failed because it can't find nameToPath in cemerick.austin.repls.
07:47	cemerick	smiler: there is no such var in that namespace?
07:49	smiler	Maybe I did something stupid.
07:51	smiler	cemerick: I added a require to that ns but that was wrong. Maybe it isn't possible to access cemerick.austin.repls/browser-connected-repl-js from within my cljs-file?
07:52	WWWest	Hi all
07:52	WWWest	a quick question on node js & cljs dev environment
07:53	WWWest	I'm using fireplace in vim. I tried using noderepl to start a repl for my project, but fireplace still can't use the repl
07:53	cemerick	smiler: no, that's a Clojure function
07:53	smiler	Hmm
07:54	WWWest	is there a way to get a cljs repl that works with fireplace?
07:54	cemerick	smiler: The connect call really needs to be in the HTML file.
07:54	smiler	Kinda sucks when I don't want server side generated code then :/
07:54	clojurebot	I don't understand.
07:55	cemerick	smiler: well, that's where the options to fix austin's port number and session ID come into play
07:55	smiler	Yea. I'll try to figure that out.
07:56	cemerick	WWWest: Nope. vim-fireplace is Clojure-only; it sends require forms to load namespaces, which doesn't work in ClojureScript.
07:56	WWWest	what do people use when working with cljs then?
07:56	cemerick	I have a fork of fireplace that fixes this, but does much, much more. Unfortunately, it's in a somewhat busted state at the moment. :-P
07:57	cemerick	WWWest: leiningen? CCW? Emacs?
07:58	WWWest	what's ccw? nothing that works with vim then?
07:58	ShawnMcCool	what is 'cons' short for?
07:58	ShawnMcCool	concatenate sequence or something maybe?
07:58	vijaykiran	construct
07:58	WWWest	construct maybe?
07:59	ShawnMcCool	thanks
07:59	cemerick	WWWest: Counterclockwise. Eclipse plugin.
07:59	WWWest	yuck, no, I'll stick to vim without a repl connection for now
08:01	WWWest	I'll just follow progress on your fireplace fork
08:02	cemerick	WWWest: haven't been working on it for a while. Vim's architecture seems incompatible with my objectives. Was segfaulting all over the place.
08:03	WWWest	that doesn't sound good...
08:03	cemerick	WWWest: actually, the last change to the fork "fixed" that by queuing all updates to the UI. https://github.com/cemerick/vim-fireplace/tree/async-python
08:04	cemerick	Yields asynchronous REPLs, but they update at updatetime, not in real time.
08:05	WWWest	I'll give it a try
08:11	WWWest	using it at commit 053b980296 doesn't work, I get error detected while processing fun. fireplace#pycall...fireplace#pycallk
08:11	WWWest	and then more errors
08:12	WWWest	thanks for trying :) I don't have the time right now, but I'll try to take a look at the code in the following weeks/months
08:31	smiler	cemerick: Hmm, actually the austin sample doesn't work for in Chrome either...
08:32	smiler	Works under my firefox install.
08:33	cemerick	smiler: any chance you have the google voice extension installed?
08:35	smiler	No, but I'll disable all extensions and try again
08:36	cemerick	smiler: was asking only because of https://github.com/cemerick/austin/issues/17#issuecomment-25328315
08:37	smiler	Wow
08:38	cemerick	smiler: See if you can verify with a third non-chrome(ium) browser
08:38	smiler	https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dictionary-of-numbers/ahhgdmkmcgahbkcbmlkpmmamemlkajaf
08:38	smiler	This extension breaks it
08:38	cemerick	smiler: so you have a working REPL in chrome now, with that disabled?
08:38	smiler	Yea
08:38	smiler	I got your sample running
08:39	smiler	Let me see if that's the problem with the native one
08:39	cemerick	man, that is totally fucked. What in the world are these extensions doing!?
08:39	cemerick	smiler: There's ~100% chance that your problems with the stock browser REPL were caused by it, too.
08:41	smiler	Indeed it does.
08:41	smiler	That's beyond fucked.
08:41	cemerick	smiler: if you could comment on #17 with a link to the offending extension, that'd be great.
08:41	smiler	Will do
08:41	cemerick	Are you certain it's only that extension?
08:41	smiler	Yea
08:42	smiler	Tried them one by one and then all other except that one enabled.
08:42	cemerick	ok; its functionality looks simple enough that the source (if it's available) could probably be understood reasonably quickly. I'd love to make it so that austin's injected js will detect when the REPL won't work.
08:43	smiler	I'm trying to find the source
08:49	smiler	Doesn't look like the author provides it but the extension isn't garbled in any way
08:50	cemerick	ah, good to know; I figured most extensions would be optimized
08:51	smiler	It's not that much code but I have no knowledge about chrome extensions
08:53	borkdude	what is the shorter form of (if x (conj y x) y)
08:54	mdrogalis	That's pretty short. D:
08:55	piranha	Name one language feature would you like to see added to Clojure. - how do I answer this one, damn...
08:55	manutter	(conj y (or x nil)) maybe?
08:55	piranha	just thought about it for a few minutes and it seems I just have no idea what's out there and not present in clojure
08:56	gfredericks	borkdude: (cond-> y x (conj x)) avoids repeating y
08:56	mdrogalis	Proper predicate dispatch
08:56	gfredericks	rand
08:56	borkdude	manutter that won't work
08:56	manutter	borkdude: actually I think (conj y x) has the same effect as (if x (conj y x) y)
08:56	borkdude	,(conj [1 2 3] nil)
08:56	clojurebot	[1 2 3 nil]
08:57	manutter	eh, ok, guess not then
08:57	manutter	I thought I remembered some scenario where adding nil to a seq returned just the seq
08:58	gfredericks	,(concat '(1 2 3) nil)
08:58	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
08:58	gfredericks	,(merge {2 3 4 5} nil)
08:58	clojurebot	{2 3, 4 5}
08:58	gfredericks	,(into [8 9 10] nil)
08:58	clojurebot	[8 9 10]
08:58	manutter	into, that's the one I was thinking of
08:58	borkdude	,(into [1 2 3] 1)
08:58	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
08:58	borkdude	,(conj [1 2 3] 1)
08:58	clojurebot	[1 2 3 1]
08:59	manutter	,(into [1 2 3] (seq nil))
08:59	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
08:59	manutter	,(into [1 2 3] (seq 1))
08:59	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
08:59	manutter	lol, ok, ifail
08:59	pjstadig	i was in here the other day talking about byte vector backed utf8 strings, and i accidentally a library https://github.com/pjstadig/utf8
09:02	smiler	cemerick: I put the code I extracted from the extension at http://www.update.uu.se/~smiler/dictionary_of_numbers_1.6.3_0.tar.bz2 if you're curious.
09:07	dav	so I'm looking to implement a lazy prime generator that doesn't use def and that properly shares prior results.
09:07	dav	I've got two version, one that satisfies the 1st req, and one that satisfies the 2nd
09:07	dav	see here: http://paste.debian.net/64105/
09:08	dav	Can't quite get it to work using "let" rather than "def" due to lack of self-referencing in let. Any thoughts?
09:08	llasram	dav: There's an existing such Clojure primes generator
09:08	llasram	Is that of interest?
09:08	llasram	Or not relevant?
09:09	dav	llasram: it doens't use def or atoms or any of that stuff?
09:09	clgv	llasram: there is a 4clojure problem for that, isn't there?
09:09	llasram	clgv: Maybe? Seems pretty intense
09:09	clgv	yes there is
09:10	clgv	rated medium difficulty. http://www.4clojure.com/problem/67
09:10	llasram	Ah, heh
09:10	Mikalv	Hi, does any of you recommend a "non-Lisp-programmer guide" that I can read to get known with the language? (Worked with php,python,java,c++ for some years now)
09:10	clgv	but not with additional requirements, just compute the first n primes
09:11	llasram	dav: I'm now having trouble finding it, and I unfortunately need to dash off
09:11	llasram	It was somewhere in the old contrib
09:11	clgv	time limit is larger enough to recompute
09:11	dav	clgv: right. I'm trying to solve it with a less-naive generator
09:11	dav	http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_contrib/clojure.contrib.lazy-seqs/primes <= this uses def
09:12	dav	clgv: I know, I'm doing it for the sport ;-)
09:12	clgv	dav: well you could do pretty memory efficient with a probabilistic prime number test
09:12	dav	clgv: kind of the point of 4clojure..
09:12	dav	the solution I pasted is quite efficient..
09:12	dav	it just requires a def
09:12	dav	it's disappointing that I can't get let to behave sufficiently like def..
09:13	dav	surely there is a way?
09:13	clgv	dav: I was shooting for constant additional memory in addition to the memory the lazyseq allocates ;)
09:15	clgv	dav: you could do (filter miller-rabin-test (list* 2 (map #(-> % inc (* 2) inc) (range))))
09:16	clgv	it's probabilistic though but you can control the error probability
09:20	dav	grrr bad connection in airport
09:20	dav	i was saying..
09:20	dav	22:17 < dav> clgv: I did that already
09:20	dav	22:17 < dav> I'm not looking to changethe algo
09:20	dav	22:17 < dav> this is a clojure question
09:20	dav	22:17 < dav> not an algorithmic question..
09:20	dav	22:18 < dav> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1590716/clojure-prime-numbers-lazy-sequence <= this guy has a solution involving an atom..
09:20	cemerick	dnolen: script/build no longer works on HEAD. I think the two sed commands need to have the first empty string args removed.
09:20	cemerick	At least, that works for me here.
09:21	clgv	dav: ah ok, your are only toying with the language^^
09:23	clgv	dav: since you already use lazy-seq there is an easy possibility without an atom
09:24	dav	clgv: ah.. how so?
09:25	clgv	dav: implementing it - please hold the line ...
09:25	dav	damn this customer service ;-)
09:25	upwardindex	More idiomatic way to write (when-let [x (bar)] (foo x))?
09:26	bbloom	(doc some->(
09:26	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
09:26	bbloom	(doc some->)
09:26	clojurebot	"([expr & forms]); When expr is not nil, threads it into the first form (via ->), and when that result is not nil, through the next etc"
09:27	bbloom	that's very similar semantically, but it's probably want you want
09:27	bbloom	(some-> (bar) foo)
09:27	dnolen	cemerick: huh really? I used script/build w/o hitch yesterday while hacking on source map stuff.
09:28	cemerick	dnolen: as it sits, I get
09:28	cemerick	sed: can't read s/^.def \clojurescript-version\.$/(def clojurescript-version* "0.0-2005")/: No such file or directory
09:28	cemerick	dnolen: maybe BSD vs. GNU sed (I'm on ubuntu)
09:29	dnolen	cemerick: build script doesn't work for me w/o them.
09:29	cemerick	heh
09:29	cemerick	yay for build scripts
09:30	cemerick	dnolen: whatever, I can make do
09:31	dnolen	cemerick: can you confirm that -ie works for you?
09:32	dnolen	cemerick: works for me w/ -ie with "" dropped
09:32	nDuff	Where's this script? (willing to provide a patch, if the portability fix is an obvious one)
09:32	dnolen	nDuff: script/build in ClojureScript repo
09:32	bbloom	yeah sed's command line arguments are notoriously non-portable
09:32	nDuff	...err. I don't see a "build" in https://github.com/swannodette/clojurescript/tree/master/script
09:33	nDuff	...ahh.
09:33	dnolen	nDuff: that's my old fork
09:33	clgv	dav: https://www.refheap.com/20495
09:33	cemerick	dnolen: yeah, -ie, no empty first arg works
09:33	nDuff	Ahh. Yeah, sed -i is nonportable as a whole.
09:34	nDuff	...if we can use perl as a dependency, that's actually more uniform across platforms.
09:34	nDuff	(in terms of behavioral consistency)
09:34	cemerick	This conversation is precious. :-D
09:34	clgv	dav: an optimization possibility is to check only all primes up to square root of n
09:34	dnolen	nDuff: eh, well we'll stick w/ -ie until more people complain and/or this doesn't work on the build server
09:34	nDuff	cemerick: sed -i isn't specified in POSIX at all
09:35	cemerick	nDuff: shrug I don't have a horse in this either way.
09:35	nDuff	...the other approach is to do the rename logic ourselves. sed -e '...' <foo >foo.new && mv foo.new foo
09:36	clgv	dav: and you could also avoid lazy-seq instances which do not yield a prime immediately by finding the next prime in one recursive call
09:36	dav	clgv: so you're maintaing a vector on top of the list
09:36	dav	clgv: I did the same thing with a sorted-set earlier
09:37	dav	clgv: yes I had done that too
09:37	bbloom	i think perl is the clear choice
09:37	clgv	dav: I maintain the vector within the lazy-seq
09:37	bbloom	perl -pi -e s,foo,bar,g target.file
09:37	dnolen	CLJS users, I landed a fairly large number of enhancements to source map support in ClojureScript, clone the repo, ./script/build, update your project.clj, and verify that source maps are still working for you (and hopefully behaves more sensibly across incremental builds, auto or once)
09:38	ToBeReplaced	what is the recommendation for CLI in CLJS?
09:39	ToBeReplaced	i don't see anything in tools.cli that would prevent it from being CLJS compatible -- just have to do it -- wondering if people use anything else?
09:42	dnolen	ToBeReplaced: not aware of anything, likely people that need something like that are targeting node
09:42	upwardindex	bbloom: thank you, I didn't know about some->
09:45	ToBeReplaced	dnolen: i'm targeting node as well -- you get a js array of args from process.argv -- wanted to do the parsing in clojure-land if it was readily available
09:51	bbloom	ToBeReplaced: look for jvm-clojure libraries & propose a patch to them. it should be a very small interop boundary: just the name of ARGV
09:51	bbloom	ToBeReplaced: i mean, aget and alength should work the same on java & javascript arrays for CLI purposes
09:57	ljos_	will (fn f [[h & tail]] (if (number? h) h (map f tail))) have the potential to blow the stack, or will the laziness of map prevent that from happening?
09:58	ljos_	oh a small error, that should be (fn f [t] (if (number? t) t (reduce + (first t) (map f tail))))
10:10	srruby	If I need pointers can I use atoms ?
10:10	gfredericks	srruby: probably? why do you need pointers?
10:11	gfredericks	ljos_: the overall function is eager
10:11	gfredericks	so if your "tree" is deep enough then you will blow the stack
10:11	srruby	gfredericks: I have a parse tree where one data structure needs to 'point' to another part of the tree.
10:11	gfredericks	srruby: I'd consider doing something indirect with ids or something like that first
10:12	gfredericks	I think what you're asking about is circular/self-referential data structures
10:12	srruby	gfredericks: Right. That is what I've been doing but it seems clunky.
10:13	AimHere	If you're pointing at bits of a tree for some reason, might that mean you're doing something that zippers would probably do in a more functional stylee?
10:13	cemerick	dnolen: might be worth spitting clojurescript-version into its own file? It's inevitable that that changed line is going to get committed and reverted over and over. :-)
10:14	bbloom	cemerick: it also means no need to update in place :-)
10:14	bbloom	echo $(get the version) > .version
10:14	lazybot	$(get the version) > .version
10:14	cemerick	bbloom: yup :-)
10:15	cemerick	oh, it's in two files!
10:15	srruby	AimHere: I've been doing everything so far with postwalk. I'm aware of zippers and might try them in the future.
10:16	bbloom	version numbers in build scripts is like THE classic example of a staging violation, cyclic dependency, broken partition between src / obj files, etc
10:17	seangrove	bbloom: I always wondered how one could do it, seemed a bit tough.
10:18	bbloom	seangrove: the problem is that people always try to do it in place or w/o creating extra files or whatever. the right thing to do is to write a build script which generates your build scripts THEN run those
10:19	cemerick	bbloom: lein is an interesting third way, where the "build script" is baked into the artifact
10:20	cemerick	though, it'd be nicer if, say `lein pprint` output was included, instead of the original project.clj (which needs leiningen-core to read in the general case)
10:26	ljos_	gfredericks: thanks.
10:27	srruby	I was watching Rich's talk on concurrency where he shows his "Ant Colony" simulation. He talks about refs, agents, and vars. Do you know why he doesn't mention atoms?
10:28	llasram	srruby: Probably just because atoms aren't novel
10:29	srruby	Thanks everybody!
10:31	gfredericks	srruby: I think that was a very early talk, and atoms might not have existed at that point?
10:33	clgv	srruby: maybe because he has several stateful entities which need to be coordinated then atoms do not fit
10:38	scottj	how do I change the default license for new lein projects? create a new project template?
10:39	dnolen	cemerick: it is annoying - enhancement patch welcome, I just modified what was on the ticket as I don't see an obvious better way that won't show up as a change to the repo.
10:42	cemerick	dnolen: I won't jump on it straight away, but a regular properties file as with Clojure, plus a derived bit of cljs that is generated when the core cljs stuff is loaded may work
10:42	justin_smith	I think the ants demo does not use atoms because he wanted to demonstrate STM, and atoms are not STM
10:43	dnolen	cemerick: ah ok, so the compiler reads the property file and compiler replaces when it compiled, good idea
10:43	dnolen	when it compiles core.cljs
10:44	cemerick	ayup
10:44	andrewmcveigh\|wo	Say I have some clojure/edn config datastructure(s) on the server (ring/etc.), and I want the client (cljs) to be able to read it on load. What is the best way to do this? Embed edn as string in a js var? json? some other way?
10:44	cemerick	just gitignore the properties file, and you're done
10:44	dnolen	cemerick: ok that sounds good gonna apply 643
10:45	cemerick	dnolen: I was actually thinking of just concatenating a string onto the results of slurping "cljs/core.clj", rather than replacing anything, but whatevs
10:46	dnolen	cemerick: hey that's good to
10:46	cemerick	dnolen: having it in the source is helpful from a doc perspective, so it's a tradeoff
10:47	dnolen	cemerick: true, but honestly this enhancement was about havoc from switching compilers and stale code.
10:48	cemerick	dnolen: BTW, I'll eventually going to hack in something to cljs.env such that any dereferences of it when it's unbound will throw a helpful error message. Tracking down the stray areas where that's not getting bound was a PITA.
10:48	dnolen	brave new world thread safe CLJS compiler, big thank you to cemerick!!!
10:48	dnolen	bbiab
10:49	cemerick	gah, clojure.lang.Var is final :-X
10:51	bbloom	nice
10:52	clgv	cemerick: well they were not thorough enough then http://steve-yegge.blogspot.de/2010/07/wikileaks-to-leak-5000-open-source-java.html
10:52	bbloom	cemerick: i like the idea of centralizing state in to it's own namespace. good call
10:53	cemerick	bbloom: Quite necessary. There's lots of little stray bits yet to be pulled in, but a lot of the rest have been around for a long time, and haven't yet caused real problems.
10:54	cemerick	the constants table and the namespaces map were the two biggies
10:55	justin_smith	clgv: that link is hilarious
11:05	ltw	hi, I just tried to create a map that adds keys for vectors and experienced some different behaviours in map creation
11:05	ltw	,((fn [a] {"asdfasd" a}) {:account 1 :type :foo})
11:05	clojurebot	{"asdfasd" {:account 1, :type :foo}}
11:06	ltw	,(#({"asdfasd" %1}) {:account 1 :type :foo})
11:06	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: PersistentArrayMap>
11:06	ltw	am I misunderstanding anonymous function creation or something?
11:06	justin_smith	ltw: that second example is applying the map to 0 arguments
11:07	andrewmcveigh\|wo	ltw: You're misunderstanding what the #() reader macro does
11:07	justin_smith	the first example was returning the map
11:07	ltw	ahhh, right.
11:07	ltw	thanks!
11:10	mdrogalis	killme2008 has starred my GitHub repo. Hm.
11:11	amalloy	cemerick: i just tried to fill in the survey on mobile, and Q3 (order these things) was so painful i gave up: surely there's some better UI - even having the question be totally optional so i can skip it, rather than autofilled with some default answers that i don't want to give, would have been better
11:11	mdrogalis	Not sure how I feel about that.
11:11	ToBeReplaced	tbaldridge: should clojurepy -h print anything? -- i can't get clojurepy to do anything other than bring up a repl
11:11	muhoo	mdrogalis: who is that?
11:12	amalloy	also the "ordered top to bottom" hint was not at all useful, since when you're just typing in numbers there's no top or bottom
11:12	mdrogalis	muhoo: Shrug https://github.com/killme2008
11:13	justin_smith	mdrogalis: the juvenile user name could just be a language barrier thing
11:14	cemerick	amalloy: hum, ok. I didn't try it out on an ipad, etc. FWIW, the initial ordering is randomized, but the results are definitely skewing sharply, so I think the aggregate data will still be useful. I don't think changing the question at this point would be useful/fair/etc.
11:14	cemerick	Thanks for the heads-up though, I'll make sure to test on an ipad or whatever next time :-/
11:14	mdrogalis	justin_smith: That's just what he wants you to think. D:
11:14	amalloy	thanks for putting the survey together again. filling out on desktop this time :)
11:14	cemerick	amalloy: a good call for just about everything IMO :-)
11:15	amalloy	oh, for sure
11:16	amalloy	cemerick: i'm sure you knew this already, but i discovered today that "chasemerick" looks kinda like "chase me rick"
11:16	cemerick	amalloy: I hadn't thought about it :-P Unfortunately, there was already a cemerick on wordpress.com, so I had to fall back :-/
11:17	mdrogalis	justin_smith: It doesn't say anything good about my maturity that I lol'ed
11:17	muhoo	Mikalv: clojurebook.com
11:20	oich	I am creating a class using gen-class that has several fields with get/set. Is there a way to avoid needing to write the actual functions that only get and set?
11:22	amalloy	oich: best recommendation is to not gen-class a bunch of pointless getters and setters
11:22	muhoo	mdrogalis: looks like a normal enough guy, works at a startup. more interesting than the name is that a startup is using clojure, always good to see
11:22	amalloy	if you're just defining a boilerplate-garbage class, java/eclipse is better at that anyway; and if you're doing something meaningful it doesn't really need getters and setters
11:24	sveri	hi, i have a list which i want to split into n lists (e.g. '(1 2 3) into (1 2) and (3) where n is 2), is there a function in clojure which does that?
11:25	llasram	&(doc partition)
11:25	lazybot	⇒ "([n coll] [n step coll] [n step pad coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of lists of n items each, at offsets step apart. If step is not supplied, defaults to n, i.e. the partitions do not overlap. If a pad collection is supplied, use its elements as necessary to complet... https://www.refheap.com/20498
11:25	llasram	Actualyl,
11:25	llasram	&(doc partition-all)
11:25	lazybot	⇒ "([n coll] [n step coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of lists like partition, but may include partitions with fewer than n items at the end."
11:25	sveri	ah, i read about partition, but that did not do as expected, and i have not found partition-all
11:25	sveri	thats exactly what i am looking for
11:25	sveri	thank you very much
11:26	mdrogalis	muhoo: Maybe he doesn't like his start up.
11:26	mdrogalis	justin_smith: I'm sure if I follow his projects, I'll see something like "'eatmypoopfart' has opened an issue on 'killme2008's repository"
11:26	mdrogalis	Perhaps a GitHub first.
11:27	muhoo	my passwords for some services are loaded with curse words and iinvective
11:28	mdrogalis	Facepalm
11:28	muhoo	my fb password was perhaps the crankiest
11:28	mdrogalis	Well it's only funny if you can share the password.
11:28	justin_smith	attempt to create password -- "the character ; is illegal in passwords" -- new password: "hash your fucking passwords your db is insecure fuckhead"
11:28	hyPiRion	It's only funny for NSA, in other words
11:29	seangrove	Is cider-repl-mode a separate package that needs to be installed?
11:29	muhoo	justin_smith: pretty much!
11:29	justin_smith	taking for granted that not allowing certain chars means they are storing unencrypted in the db
11:29	mdrogalis	hyPiRion: Correct.
11:30	Morgawr	is there an alternative to and that is not a macro?
11:30	amalloy	mdrogalis: i'm suddenly sad to discover that poopfeast420 doesn't have a github account
11:30	Morgawr	I need to reduce 'and' to a vector of booleans
11:30	amalloy	Morgawr: ##(doc every?)
11:30	lazybot	⇒ "([pred coll]); Returns true if (pred x) is logical true for every x in coll, else false."
11:30	Morgawr	amalloy: thanks!
11:30	hyPiRion	mdrogalis: obligatory XKCD: http://xkcd.com/525/
11:30	mdrogalis	amalloy: Is this going to be the next open source trend? Armies of offensive accounts.
11:31	muhoo	how did this turn into /b/ ?
11:31	mdrogalis	hyPiRion: Hah
11:31	mdrogalis	I was just thinking that, muhoo.
11:32	justin_smith	probably my fault, somehow I got implanted with the sense of humor of an 8 year old today
11:33	justin_smith	somewhere out there a third grader is making weird esoteric jokes that none of his peers understand
11:33	mdrogalis	Ah, those were the days..
11:33	mdrogalis	Not really.
11:34	hyPiRion	justin_smith: only their teacher, which is amused by the vocabulary
11:35	mdrogalis	Even he/she is asking, what the hell is a monad?
11:36	hyPiRion	"just a monoid in the category of endofunctors"
11:37	mdrogalis	The small child walks away giggling.
11:37	mdrogalis	Pretty sure we can write a screen play about this, you guys.
11:39	justin_smith	mdrogalis: check if Lindsay Lohan is available, it would be a surefire hit
11:39	tbaldrid_	I was about to say, a Geeky Freaky Friday?
11:39	mdrogalis	This is going in today's stand up for sure.
11:40	seangrove	Somehow nrepl/i-mode is getting turned on whenever I open a clojure file in emacs, and it's eating all the commands that should be going to cider, e.g. C-c M-n... this has not been a smooth 'upgrade' to cider.
11:40	seangrove	Thought since it's on marmalade, it should be ready
11:40	mdrogalis	"Today.. I plan to work on an up and coming screen cast with #clojure. Next."
11:40	justin_smith	the kid in the adult body spends his whole day playing video games, watching anime, reading comics, and trolling internet forums, nobody notices any difference
11:41	muhoo	justin_smith: wait for randall monroe to draw that
11:42	seangrove	I probably need to completely remove nrepl.el
11:43	justin_smith	seangrov1: also look out for any .elc files compiled when you had nrepl, they will prevent newer uncompiled .el files from being used iirc
11:44	justin_smith	or something like that -- I just know the elc / el interaction can lead to weird behavior
11:57	iwo	hi, does anyone know a way to inspect the structure of a clojure function?
11:57	S11001001	iwo: tools.analyzer?
11:57	S11001001	or analyze or something
11:58	S11001001	core.typed uses it
11:58	tbaldridge	iwo: please define inspect and structure
11:59	iwo	so, imagine i create this: (def f (fn [x] (if x (fn [y] 1) (fn [y] 2))))
12:00	iwo	is it possible to inspect f in some way to find out what the structure of the code that executes when f is called is?
12:00	clgv	Has someone already put thought into how a diagram/chart DSL for easy usage needs to look like?
12:00	clgv	please do not refer me to incanter ;)
12:00	hyPiRion	easy usage?
12:01	iwo	basically, i'm working with automatically generated compojure routes, and i'd like to be able to somehow inspect the route & middleware that has been generated
12:01	tbaldridge	iwo: yeah you probably want to look at tools.analyzer.jvm https://github.com/clojure/tools.analyzer.jvm
12:01	tbaldridge	eh, then that's not what you want
12:01	hyPiRion	well, I like gnuplot, but that's not easy.
12:01	clgv	hyPiRion: yeah especially for advanced scenarios where you build several plots and charts from one dataset
12:01	bbloom	clgv: http://keminglabs.com/c2/
12:02	tbaldridge	iwo: that's not exactly easly/possible. compojure routes end up being closures and those are pretty hard to inspect.
12:02	ToBeReplaced	mdrogalis: why use slingshot instead of ex-info/ex-data in dire?
12:02	clgv	I just thought I ask if nothing comes up I'll rewrite my current code with the new lib and see where something is missing
12:02	oich	for my avoiding getters setters with gen-class question (I have to create a class with methods getBlah setBlah, etc. because they are expected), I figured out a weird solution: create a java superclass with protected fields and then use :exposes. but, maybe it's better to write a macro that emits a series of defn expressions?
12:03	bbloom	clgv: kevin lynagh is working on various projects in charting. he's the guy to talk to
12:03	tbaldridge	iwo: that's one of the reasons why Pedestal does this a bit differently, but that would require porting your code to a different library: http://pedestal.io/documentation/service-interceptors/
12:03	justin_smith	iwo: you could use something like robert-hooke to track invocation of the functions when the route is hit https://github.com/technomancy/robert-hooke/
12:04	clgv	bbloom: ok thanks
12:04	bbloom	oich: watch this: http://skillsmatter.com/podcast/scala/impromptu-rich-hickey-lightning-talk
12:05	bbloom	oich: rich explains how he made the java API for datomic while still preserving all the repl-goodness of clojure. short answer: just write java code and indirect through vars
12:05	technomancy	cemerick: does "what version of the JDK do you target?" mean what you use in production deployments or what you require users of your code to have?
12:06	iwo	justin_smith: thanks, i'll definitely investigate that, it might be the only option
12:06	sritchie	is anyone doing facebook or twitter authentication in Ring apps? any "best practice" recommendations?
12:06	cemerick	technomancy: Whatever is more meaningful to the respondent. Sort of a "if you had to choose just one" situation.
12:06	sritchie	cemerick: repl's up, got used to the workflow, it's great :)
12:07	cemerick	sritchie: nice, good to hear :-)
12:07	technomancy	ok
12:07	sritchie	cemerick: I was seeing that ""cemerick" does not exist" error when try to run clojurescript.test, but that's something to fix another day
12:07	iwo	tbaldridge: there _must_ be a way to see something useful surely. maybe debugging with something like ritz would be an option
12:07	technomancy	cemerick does too exist
12:07	technomancy	I've seen him with me own eyes
12:08	sritchie	he's ascended to a higher plane of compilation
12:08	cemerick	sritchie: sounds like a classpath situation
12:08	cemerick	technomancy: sometimes I wonder
12:08	sritchie	cemerick: I added it as a plugin,
12:08	sritchie	perhaps I'll try adding it as a dep too
12:08	sritchie	cemerick: lein 2.3.3
12:09	iwo	tbaldridge: my first bit of googling suggested serializable.fn
12:09	technomancy	cemerick: kind of a http://dresdencodak.com/2011/04/19/dark-science-09/ type of situation?
12:09	cemerick	dnolen: maybe this is a non-starter with the powers-that-be, but maybe now would be a good time to bump the minor version number of cljs? Every time I contribute large(ish) changes, I feel bad for others that have to puzzle out the difference between effectively-arbitrary changes in a single number.
12:09	iwo	tbaldridge: however i'm not sure the bet way to apply this so that it's used by compojure, alter-var-root is a very bad idea :)
12:10	sritchie	cemerick: I'm expecting a biased answer here: friend > clauth (or equiv) for oauth?
12:11	dnolen	cemerick: I'm not against it, but I would like to get a lot more feedback first. I want incremental compilation, REPLs, and source maps to be solid
12:11	dnolen	xeqi: did you see my comment about your patch yesterday?
12:12	devn	"Name one language feature would you like to see added to Clojure."
12:12	cemerick	dnolen: a lot more feedback before a 0.1-XXXX, you mean?
12:12	dnolen	cemerick: yes
12:12	clojurebot	No entiendo
12:13	cemerick	OK
12:14	llasram	Does "CLJS-style core-interfaces-as-protocols in JVM Clojure" count as a "language feature"
12:14	cemerick	sritchie: I'd much rather see e.g. the stuff in clauth be turned into a friend workflow
12:15	tbaldridge	llasram: in the same way "full language rewrite" counts as a feature :-P
12:15	amalloy	llasram: i doubt cemerick will be calling the police if you ask for something he doesn't count as a language feature
12:15	llasram	He might!
12:15	cemerick	I didn't find the examples of ring usage very compelling. ! this and ! that, etc.
12:15	tbaldridge	then I'm gonna add "make Clojure statically typed so I can use monads".
12:15	hyPiRion	I just want faster startup time atm
12:15	TimMc	car and cdr for me
12:16	tbaldridge	just to see if I end up getting murdered
12:16	sritchie	cemerick: gotcha, good to hear
12:16	llasram	tbaldridge: You don't think it could be done incrementally?
12:16	cemerick	technomancy: eh, more of an internal confusion than lacking external validation
12:16	oich	bbloom thanks. that is really cool. for this case since the getters/setters just expose the field, I think it's less code just to create the java super class with protected fields (or a macro) but, that looks like a very useful technique
12:16	sritchie	cemerick: time to do some learning, then I'll see what I can do
12:16	gfredericks	llasram: it would probably break stuff...so maybe best to break everything at once rather than repeatedly?
12:16	tbaldridge	llasram: yeah, that's the way it has to be done, but it's still really hard. The compiler itself uses the interfaces you'd be rewriting.
12:17	cemerick	sritchie: that's not to say that friend has a super-great oauth story. There's friend-oauth2, which definitely works, but saying friend has "oauth support" is an incredibly broad claim given the "spec", one that I don't want to make.
12:17	bbloom	oich: the summary of my point is: don't be afraid to write java if it's easier than writng clojure for your particular need
12:17	llasram	I'm not really sure why it would break anything. You could keep the existing interfaces, and extend the new protocols to those interfaces
12:17	gfredericks	maybe it wouldn't break much, since defprotocol creates an interface
12:17	gfredericks	by hopefully the original name?
12:17	llasram	Or that
12:17	tbaldridge	gfredericks: that interface is only implemented on new classes, not old ones.
12:18	gfredericks	tbaldridge: I know
12:18	cemerick	llasram: what amalloy said, also, I don't particularly judge anything entered. I get first dibs on commentary, but that's worth about as much as the paper it's written on.
12:18	gfredericks	I was thinking of breakage along the lines of just (:import clojure.lang.IFn) and such
12:19	llasram	cemerick: Yeah, I'm not buying it. I'm pretty sure you've got a team of crack mercenaries, ready to go
12:19	llasram	I was mostly just curious what people were considering a "language feature"
12:21	cemerick	llasram: if only. That would imply that there's money to be had being a professional Clojure hatchet man. Alas.
12:21	ivan	dev.clojure.org jira ticket pages intercept ctrl-pgup/pgdn in Firefox (why oh why do browsers let people do this)
12:22	hyPiRion	and it reads the super button, which is annoying.
12:22	technomancy	ivan: wow
12:22	technomancy	ivan: more pertinently, why do humans inflict this on other humans?
12:23	ivan	some people just use their clicky-mouse for everything or haven't been using browsers very hard. a month ago I found a page that used ctrl-s for search
12:24	justin_smith	llasram: that's easy, macros are language features
12:24	mtp	ugh
12:24	mtp	i found some IRC client that used C-f for Fonts
12:24	ivan	heh
12:24	mtp	and afaict didn't have a search-the-scrollback feature at all
12:25	mdrogalis	ToBeReplaced: Hm.. I had a reason..
12:25	mdrogalis	Oh, right. Because Slingshot exceptions might propagate from within that try block.
12:25	mdrogalis	End-users functions, that is
12:27	TimMc	ivan: Github intercepts / (in-page search in Firefox) and you can't turn it off.
12:27	llasram	justin_smith: Well, that is a very specific definition
12:28	ivan	TimMc: the one that starts with / ? seems to be working here
12:28	Morgawr	I have an operation with side effects that needs to be applied to a collection of elements (like a vector) and I do not care about the return value of such operation, is there anything better than calling (doall (map func coll)) ?
12:28	technomancy	TimMc: is there some noscript hacks you could use to fix that?
12:28	TimMc	ivan: Not every page.
12:28	ivan	Firefox 25, at least
12:28	ivan	ah
12:29	TimMc	...or maybe they finally killed it?
12:29	ToBeReplaced	mdrogalis: so it's to deal with user functions that already use slingshot?
12:31	iwo	ivan: ctrl-pgup/ctrl-pgdn work as usual for me when viewing a dev.clojure.org jira ticket in FF 24
12:31	ivan	iwo: try clicking on some ticket text, does it still work?
12:31	mdrogalis	ToBeReplaced: Well, say you define a function that throw+'s something. And then you add a Dire hook.
12:31	technomancy	Morgawr: doseq is more typical for that
12:31	Morgawr	technomancy: thanks
12:31	mdrogalis	If I just used "try" within the Dire hook, it would stacktrace out
12:31	ToBeReplaced	Morgawr: (doseq [c coll] (func c)) or (dorun (map func coll))
12:32	Morgawr	doseq looks perfect, thank you :)
12:32	mdrogalis	ToBeReplaced: I should have just answered that - yes :P
12:32	Morgawr	I knew there was one but I kept forgetting the name, I looked for "for", "while", "do", "doall", "dorun" etc etc
12:32	Morgawr	doseq was what I was looking for :P
12:33	iwo	it seems to do two things, switch tabs _and_ scroll to the top or bottom of the ticket
12:33	ivan	iwo: you lucked out, maybe it's Windows or my FF extensions
12:34	ToBeReplaced	mdrogalis: that feels questionable to me -- do you have users that are asking for slingshot throw+ compatibility?
12:34	justin_smith	llasram: I meant it jokingly, it's kind of a pedantic normative definition of macros that they should only be made if they are creating language features
12:34	mdrogalis	ToBeReplaced: Yeah, a bunch.
12:35	ToBeReplaced	mdrogalis: it feels off that your lib has to eat that dependency ... esp after inclusion of ex-info
12:35	ToBeReplaced	oh, interesting
12:35	mdrogalis	I don't mind it. If the end user never knew that Slingshot existed, his/her world would be exactly the same in the API usage
12:35	ToBeReplaced	i might be out of the loop -- what does slingshot buy you that ex-info/ex-data doesn't?
12:36	mdrogalis	catch+ can do dispatch on predicates
12:36	ToBeReplaced	mdrogalis: yeah, not a deal breaker by any means... just adds an extra dep
12:37	ToBeReplaced	in stead of (catch RuntimeException e (condp (ex-data e)....
12:37	mdrogalis	I'm about to get run-time hook removal out, so Night-Vision will be a lot better.
12:37	mdrogalis	Correct. ^
12:37	technomancy	slingshot catching is really fancy
12:37	mdrogalis	technomancy: Yeah I quite like it.
12:37	ToBeReplaced	the fanciness is a positive then? i haven't used it
12:38	Morgawr	am I a monster for making this? https://gist.github.com/Morgawr/7322960
12:38	Morgawr	just for syntactic sugar?
12:38	Raynes	technomancy: Miss slingshot, miss slingshot, miss slingshot: are you fanceh!?!?!?!
12:38	mdrogalis	The win is that the code that blows up just needs to puke up enough context for a predicate to pick the right error handling logic higher up the stack.
12:38	Raynes	technomancy: (reference to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUc_jXBD9DU)
12:39	Raynes	Morgawr: Well, you're a monster for making it a gist instead of a refheap.
12:39	Morgawr	Raynes: sorry, I like gists for stuff I want to keep around
12:40	Raynes	Anyways, I certainly wouldn't write that macro. It makes the code more confusing to readers (they now have to understand what that macro does) without much gain.
12:40	technomancy	ToBeReplaced: for something with as limited scope as catch, I think fancy is a win =)
12:40	Raynes	Morgawr: I was totally joking, but I am curious as to why you'd rather use gist for things you'd like to keep around (sounds like feedback and feedback is useful for future refheap improvement)
12:41	hyPiRion	Morgawr: maybe you should check out common lisp. You can do (loop for n in '(1 2 3 4 5 6) do (print (* n n)))
12:41	Morgawr	Raynes: I have a gist client on my machine where I can collect all the gists tied to my github account, you can submit pull requests and revisions to gists (as far as I know, never did it myself though) and it is tied to your own github account
12:42	Morgawr	hyPiRion: nah, I don't like common lisp, I think clojure's syntax (and flexibility) is much better :P
12:42	technomancy	Raynes: tying it to an existing github account is kind of a brilliant lock-in move on their part =\
12:43	ToBeReplaced	technomancy: mdrogalis: thanks
12:43	Raynes	Morgawr: Interesting. I can add the first feature to rapture in approximately 4 seconds. Revisions exist on refheap as of about a month now. You can't submit 'pull requests', but I purposely avoided the pastes-backed-by-git gimmick.
12:43	Morgawr	Raynes: nice
12:43	hyPiRion	Morgawr: Well, I avoid syntactic sugar, because it makes it harder to read the code
12:43	Morgawr	honestly I never used refheap that much, any paste service is fine in my opinion
12:43	Raynes	Refheap also has accounts (backed by browserid, so it's pretty easy and usually sign-in-and-forget). I'm thinking of adding github authentication, but TimMc won't pull request me. :P
12:44	Raynes	Morgawr: Sure, I just wanted to hear feedback and see if there was anything I could do to make the experience better. :)
12:44	Morgawr	hyPiRion: for clojure developers yeah, I am kind of writing a library for game development that can hopefully be used by programming newbies who never used a functional language or a lisp dialect, if I can make it easier with a first approach, I'd like it
12:44	ToBeReplaced	Raynes: can i get some love on my LinkOptions support in fs?
12:44	Raynes	ToBeReplaced: No. Go away. Never.
12:45	Raynes	ToBeReplaced: (I forgot about the pull request)
12:45	dobry-den	Morgawr: `doseq` itself is a signal for "this has side-effects". I don't know what that wrapper accomplishes except blur the line between things like `for` which return a sequence
12:45	justin_smith	I thought it was a bad joke
12:45	ToBeReplaced	Raynes: hence the friendly ping ... no rush or anything, just putting it back on the radar
12:45	hyPiRion	Well, I am not sure whether adding syntax to Clojure makes it easier to learn
12:45	Raynes	ToBeReplaced: Hehe.
12:46	Morgawr	yeah you guys are probably right, this doesn't make much sense
12:46	Morgawr	it was just fun to implement though :P
12:46	rasmusto	Morgawr: you could have a side-by-side comparison of a clojure doseq and a ruby foreach or something
12:46	Morgawr	and dobry-den raises a really good point
12:47	Raynes	ToBeReplaced: Can you align the docstring text?
12:47	Raynes	If so, I shall pull this here pull request and I shall do it with pride.
12:49	ToBeReplaced	what do you mean? i aligned it to match the other functions
12:51	ToBeReplaced	it might make sense to split out java 7 work into a separate namespace or separate project even
12:51	Raynes	ToBeReplaced: Oh, I see. I must have missed it. noprompt did the other docstrings.
12:51	Raynes	This is fine. I'll align them all later on.
12:51	Raynes	ToBeReplaced: My intention was to release a new major version soon with java 6 deprecated.
12:52	Raynes	Java 7 just has way too much good stuff to not be used
12:52	ToBeReplaced	deprecated through warnings or broken?
12:52	Raynes	Broken.
12:53	Raynes	Trying to support both versions is painful.
12:53	Raynes	And people who need java 6 support can just keep using the old version until they can upgrade.
12:53	ToBeReplaced	yeah, i'd vote for a separate project... java 6 has lots of life left with clojure so i think dropping it is a bad idea
12:53	technomancy	Oracle's JDK6 has been officially EOL'd for nearly a year now
12:54	technomancy	not openjdk though
12:54	hyPiRion	hmm
12:54	ToBeReplaced	how widespread is jdk6 still in the wild though?
12:54	llasram	Many (most?) Hadoop distros still only experimentally support Java 7 :-/
12:55	hyPiRion	ToBeReplaced: On all debian servers I guess? At least on squeeze and wheezy
12:56	justin_smith	someone said to me that osx came with version 1.6 of the jvm - is that true? just maybe true as of the last time osx shipped with a jvm by default?
12:56	hyPiRion	Jessie runs on 1.7, but running testing in the wild is a rare sight
12:57	llasram	hyPiRion: wheezy at least has an openjdk7 package, unlike squeeze :-/
12:57	indigo	justin_smith: OS X doesn't come with a JVM anymore
12:57	indigo	You have to download one from Oracle
12:57	hyPiRion	llasram: what? I thought squeeze had a 1.7 package
12:57	justin_smith	it comes with xcode thought, right?
12:58	hyPiRion	well, squeeze is old now, so people should upgrade to wheezy when they can.
12:59	technomancy	we'll find out more when the state of clojure survey ends
12:59	llasram	hyPiRion: http://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=openjdk-7-jdk
12:59	technomancy	though I put 1.6 because it's the minimum requirement for lein users; I don't actually use it myself
13:00	llasram	hyPiRion: And yes, but does mean I need to upgrade my corporate universe to wheezy first, before even thinking about Java 7
13:00	ivan	iwo: this was 'fixed' in Firefox 25 ;)
13:00	hyPiRion	llasram: heh, yeah. I haven't bothered yet on my server either =/
13:02	technomancy	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/08/red_hat_openjdk_6_leadership/
13:02	technomancy	no mention of how long they plan on keeping it up
13:04	ToBeReplaced	clojure 1.6 drops 1.5, right?
13:04	technomancy	ToBeReplaced: yeah
13:05	technomancy	1.5 was never part of openjdk though, so it's been EOL'd for longer than you can imagine
13:05	hyPiRion	yeah, was amazed that Clojure actually supported 1.5
13:06	technomancy	Leiningen has never supported it =)
13:07	hyPiRion	not intentionally at least
13:07	technomancy	there's some j.i.File method used in compile or jar or something that makes it blow up
13:07	hyPiRion	To be honest, I'm not sure of the differences between 1.5 and 1.6. It's before my time
13:07	hyPiRion	oh, hehe
13:08	TimMc	Young 'un.
13:09	hyPiRion	ticked*
13:10	technomancy	leiningen's 4th birthday is the day after the conj
13:10	technomancy	well, of the 0.5.0 release. the first commit was halloween.
13:13	pjstadig	technomancy: really? hmm time flies
13:13	technomancy	I know, right?
13:14	technomancy	it's like... mature software or something
13:14	hyPiRion	Well, it's actually post 0.x.y.
13:14	joegallo	BIG BUSINESS, technomancy
13:14	hyPiRion	That's very unusual for any Clojure project out there.
13:14	technomancy	joegallo: time for a certification program
13:15	joegallo	that's where the money's at
13:15	justin_smith	talk to University of Phoenix, they can set up a money faucet
13:16	sshack	Are there any parsing tools for uri's in clojure? Want to parse a DB connect string to feed into korma/lobos.
13:17	sshack	justin_smith: You laugh, but Upheonix might be the future. They have no physical buildings, deliver online so they can ab-test out the wazoo, and enough students to hire the best people.
13:17	technomancy	I remember my first bug report; running `mvn package` from a fresh checkout didn't actually work; turned out everyone just used ant and the readme hadn't been updated.
13:18	sshack	They got clayton christensen after all.
13:18	ToBeReplaced	on 0.x.y -- that tilts me... i should have put that in my state of clojure survey
13:19	ToBeReplaced	i don't get the big deal against having version 13.1.2
13:19	technomancy	ToBeReplaced: gotta avoid integer overflows y'know
13:20	technomancy	java doesn't have unsigned ints
13:20	TimMc	sshack: URIs in general, or specific schemes?
13:21	dnolen	reiddraper: hmm, have you seen this John Hughes video on async testing with QuickCheck? http://vimeo.com/17135313
13:21	bbloom	can i just say how much i appreciate the lack of interposed syntax in lists?
13:21	bbloom	if i ever debug another trailing slash on a path to a directory issue again,.... grumble gurmble
13:21	sshack	Timmc: database connection strings.
13:21	sshack	timmc: korma/lobos want keywords, heroku sets an env var with a connection string.
13:22	bbloom	whoever decided you need a common between array items should be shot
13:22	TimMc	sshack: OK, so it needs to understand how to parse specific DB connect strings.
13:23	sshack	timmc: As far as I know they conform to normal urls: postgresql://user:pass@foobar.com:5432/my_database
13:24	TimMc	java.net.URI will split that into non-specific parts, like host and path
13:24	reiddraper	dnolen: I have not, thanks
13:25	technomancy	bbloom: I wonder if that originally stemmed from a desire to make it "like english" or something
13:25	bbloom	it doesn't work in english either
13:25	bbloom	hurray oxford comma debates
13:25	dnolen	reiddraper: seems like a pretty solid set of ideas easily implementable by simple-check :)
13:25	sshack	timmc: I was looking at that. It looks to give me everything but the password part.
13:25	hiredman	bbloom: commas in other languages drive me crazy now
13:26	iamjarvo	so i just looked in here an saw a mention of heroku. are there a lot of clojure apps on heroku? i was surprised they had couple awesome clojure tutorials
13:26	stuartsierra	Commas make it easier to distinguish separate items when written by hand.
13:26	TimMc	sshack: At work I've been hammering on a lib to do URI parsing, but it's just focused on http URLs right now and isn't done. :-/
13:26	stuartsierra	But I agree, I dislike typing commas now. :)
13:26	reiddraper	dnolen: excellent, yeah, i'll give it a watch after work today
13:27	technomancy	iamjarvo: there's a decent number, but a lot less than scala and groovy even
13:28	iamjarvo	ahh i see. i come from the ruby world.
13:28	bbloom	hiredman: i just opened a file and saw a ton of /paths/that/looked/like//this
13:28	sshack	timmc: ahh. Hence your interest. Well as far as I know db connect strings are valid URL's.
13:28	bbloom	note the double slash
13:28	bbloom	cringe
13:28	technomancy	iamjarvo: right; on heroku everything else is a rounding error compared to ruby
13:28	TimMc	bbloom: That should be fine, actually.
13:29	bbloom	TimMc: it is fine for bash, etc. but it's not fine when it's like your one primary upstream environment var that gets copied around to dozens of other config files & things
13:29	bbloom	surely somewhere somebody down the line will barf on that
13:29	justin_smith	a posix system won't care about doubled slashes at least
13:30	justin_smith	the / is interpreted on a filesystem level
13:30	technomancy	bbloom: really? I've never run into anything that barfed on double slashes
13:30	justin_smith	but // in a path is ugly, and is always obviously a mistake
13:31	nDuff	technomancy: I've seen a few places where it can happen.
13:31	bbloom	technomancy: some code trying to convert a absolute path in to a relative path by stripping a prefix. result is a path with a leading /
13:31	justin_smith	you can do a syscall telling the kernel to open a file with // in the path, the kernel won't care
13:31	nDuff	technomancy: ...double slashes are special to some parts of the Andrew Filesystem, f'rinstance
13:31	justin_smith	yeah, but it is an fs level thing
13:32	technomancy	bbloom: sure, but you should probably be normalizing that anyway to take care of symlinks and stuff
13:32	bbloom	technomancy: i didn't write this code :-P
13:33	justin_smith	bbloom: in other words you should avoid // for much the same reason you should avoid space in paths, because it breaks lots of bad code?
13:33	bbloom	justin_smith: yes.
13:34	justin_smith	(alternately one could go the MS route and throw // in paths at every opportunity so that all code that can't handle it breaks constantly)
13:34	bbloom	justin_smith: but it also just makes quick munging harder
13:34	bbloom	cut -d/ -f2- # for example, is broken
13:34	bbloom	same for spaces, etc
13:39	Morgawr	mmm.. I have a vector of sets and I want to change the first set in that vector (change = return a copied vector with the modified set, obviously)
13:40	Morgawr	I'm wondering how to do that in an elegant way
13:41	stuartsierra	Morgawr: update-in
13:41	bbloom	(update-in vector-of-sets [0] conj :new-item)
13:41	Morgawr	oh, update-in works with vectors too? great!
13:41	Morgawr	thanks
13:41	pbostrom	is (:require [foo :refer :all]) not allowed in cljs?
13:41	TimMc	Morgawr: Yup, they're associative.
13:41	TimMc	~seqs and colls
13:41	dnolen	pbostrom: nope
13:41	clojurebot	seqs and colls is http://www.brainonfire.net/files/seqs-and-colls/main.html
13:56	sshack	timmc java.net.url lets me down. throws an exception because of the postgres protocol in the url.
14:01	TimMc	&(.getHost (java.net.URI. "postgresql://user:pass@foobar.com:5432/my_database"))
14:01	lazybot	⇒ "foobar.com"
14:01	TimMc	sshack: ^
14:01	TimMc	Remember to use the .get___Raw version of applicable accessors.
14:02	TimMc	(j.u.URI will "helpfully" percent-decode stuff that it really shouldn't, otherwise)
14:03	sshack	Huh. Interesting.
14:05	TimMc	sshack: URI, not URL :-)
14:05	sshack	TimMc: Just noticed that.
14:06	sshack	Gets me everything I want but user/pass are still entangled. I can live with that.
14:07	TimMc	Yeah, you'll have to split at the first : and percent-decode the two halves (or single piece.)
14:13	technomancy	has anyone implemented a generalized "watch" higher order lein task to subsume these one-off implementations coupled to things like autoexpect and cljsbould :auto?
14:14	ToBeReplaced	technomancy: pyinotify?
14:15	technomancy	um?
14:16	ToBeReplaced	technomancy: that was bothering me a few weeks ago.... feels like doing "watch" right is hard and it sucks that everyone tries to reimplement pyinotify
14:16	technomancy	ToBeReplaced: doing it outside the JVM means re-invoking lein's own startup time
14:16	ToBeReplaced	inotify rather, heh... sorry... i use pyinotify for my watch commands
14:18	ToBeReplaced	technomancy: so you want `lein inotify -d src cljsbuild`?
14:18	technomancy	ToBeReplaced: right
14:18	technomancy	having cljsbuild implement its own watcher is silly
14:19	ToBeReplaced	agreed
14:19	technomancy	and I'm kind of surprised this hasn't been done right yet
14:19	technomancy
14:19	technomancy	rightly
14:19	technomancy	correctly
14:19	technomancy	whatever
14:20	TimMc	with more better doage
14:20	technomancy	http://p.hagelb.org/correct-answer.gif
14:23	pjstadig	technomancy: what am i even watching?
14:24	pjstadig	and why is it 5 minutes long
14:24	technomancy	pjstadig: difficult to put in words
14:24	TimMc	It is its own best explanation.
14:24	bitemyapp	there needs to be a name for that feeling when you see a meeting invite you don't want to go to, then realize you already agreed to it.
14:24	seangrove	I'd like to (I think) use multimethods that will always the same type given for the first argument, but do dispatch off of the second
14:25	seangrove	Is there a way to do that?
14:25	TimMc	I think you a verb.
14:25	seangrove	(run simulation 'i81) would trigger one method, (run simulation 'i85) would trigger a different one, etc.
14:26	mdrogalis	technomancy: That is the weirdest thing I've seen in a while.
14:26	seangrove	TimMc: Quite possible.
14:26	technomancy	mdrogalis: thanks
14:26	TimMc	seangrove: Multimethods can do arbitrary dispatch on the arguments.
14:26	mdrogalis	Yeah no problem. I knew you'd take it well.
14:26	TimMc	You just want to dispatch on the second?
14:26	seangrove	TimMc: Ideally, yes
14:27	TimMc	Something like (defmulti run (fn [_ foo & _] foo))
14:27	seangrove	TimMc: Ok, let me try that out
14:29	TimMc	You could dispatch off of whether the first argument is relatively prime to the last if you wanted to.
14:42	bitemyapp	I'm going to just see if I can show up really late to the meeting so that the 10 out of 60 minutes that I can contribute to happen then.
14:44	indigo	Hm, fox news got hacked
14:45	Foxboron	indigo: nothing of value was lost
14:45	indigo	Yep :)
14:46	bitemyapp	I don't particularly like Fox News or agree with their politics but should we be cheering on attacks against news organizations at a time when the NSA is running rampant?
14:46	bitemyapp	Sorry if I just ruined the fun :P
14:47	indigo	Not exactly cheering it on
14:47	indigo	But still, I don't consider Fox News a proper "news organization"
14:47	indigo	More like a propaganda machine
14:48	bitemyapp	indigo: I'm sure Fox News feels similarly about MSNBC
14:48	justin_smith	indigo: do you have a link for that? or a page that shows evidence of hackage?
14:48	bitemyapp	indigo: as frustrating as the polarization of news organizations to political extremes, do we really want fewer possible sources of information?
14:48	bitemyapp	extremes is*
14:49	technomancy	it's not like they won't get the site back up
14:49	justin_smith	it is up and looks "normal" right now
14:49	justin_smith	I think
14:49	indigo	justin_smith: http://i.imgur.com/xviXyB1.png
14:50	bitemyapp	justin_smith: looks pretty hacked to me.
14:50	indigo	It's still on their front page
14:50	indigo	bitemyapp: Sure, if it would decrease the noise
14:50	justin_smith	oh, I thought that was what they normally looked like
14:50	technomancy	"stuff, yo"? lame =\
14:50	bitemyapp	indigo: it's only noise to you because you disagree with their viewpoint.
14:51	gtrak	bitemyapp: I think us techies are more able to deal with noise than most folks.
14:51	technomancy	they could have at least added something clever
14:51	mtp	i am terrible at handling noise
14:51	mdrogalis	Weeeeeeeeeeee
14:51	mtp	i try to extract signal from it
14:51	indigo	bitemyapp: It's not just fox, it's the death of real journalism in general
14:52	justin_smith	I'm listening to an asmr videos on youtube right now, noise gives me the head tingles
14:52	mdrogalis	justin_smith: I tried it. Didn't work for me.
14:52	TimMc	Hacked, or intern?
14:53	TimMc	From time to time fake headlines (Lorem ipsum, "headline goes here", etc.) make it out the door.
14:54	justin_smith	"Etaoin shrdlu" is the best (and a great lib name)
14:54	indigo	bitemyapp: Btw, since you worked on Revise... what's your general opinion on RethinkDB?
14:54	justin_smith	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETAOIN_SHRDLU
14:55	bitemyapp	indigo: it does a better job at what MongoDB purports to do.
14:55	bitemyapp	indigo: I'd still use PostgreSQL or Datomic for an "important" OLTP database of record.
14:55	bitemyapp	indigo: but if I had slightly lower value data for which I wanted a nice sharding, replicating, auto-clustering document store, RethinkDB is a solid choice.
14:55	bitemyapp	indigo: RethinkDB also lends itself nicely to weekend hack projects.
14:56	bitemyapp	you could do some nifty things with analytics data roll-ups with RethinkDB too.
14:56	bitemyapp	I sincerely hope it supplants MongoDB as the document store of choice, it's vastly superior.
14:56	indigo	Gotcha
14:57	bitemyapp	the only thing I really dislike about RethinkDB is that it's specifically a JSON document store
14:57	indigo	Well... better than BSON
14:57	bitemyapp	well, I understand their reasons for using it
14:57	bitemyapp	I just would've preferred something a little better designed schematically.
14:57	bitemyapp	ironically, the protocol isn't JSON at all, it's a custom protobuf spec.
14:58	bitemyapp	so they're quite free to break away from JSON at any time.
14:58	indigo	A.k.a. edn
14:58	indigo	Ah
14:58	indigo	Yay protobufs
14:58	bitemyapp	the representation just happens to be...JSON'ish.
14:58	`cbp	yay protobufs!!
14:58	bitemyapp	it's a little odd.
14:58	bitemyapp	makes a ton of sense though.
14:59	nDuff	...BaseX is wonderful until one starts to care about concurrency and locking semantics, replication, &c.
14:59	bitemyapp	nDuff: take a look at the API: https://github.com/bitemyapp/revise/
14:59	bitemyapp	`cbp: you should add a note to the :durability keys what the other options are other than :soft
15:00	`cbp	bitemyapp removed all my protobuf swearing comments
15:00	bitemyapp	`cbp: I can guess :hard, but I don't know for sure because it's not in the README
15:00	indigo	bitemyapp: No issues yet :(
15:00	bitemyapp	indigo: sorry?
15:00	bitemyapp	you mean in Revise?
15:00	indigo	Yeah
15:00	indigo	I might check it out this weekend :D
15:00	llasram	zarro boogs
15:00	`cbp	indigo: that means its pretty perfect right?
15:00	bitemyapp	indigo: I'm not sweating it. `cbp knows I pimped out the library big time.
15:00	bitemyapp	`cbp: I kinda should look into error handling...
15:00	bitemyapp	coughs
15:00	indigo	`cbp: Of course
15:01	indigo	`cbp: Also no protobuf swearing comments because protobufs are everyone's favourite
15:01	indigo	>:D
15:01	`cbp	wait till you get messages like EXPECTED TERM BUT FOUND DATUM
15:02	nDuff	bitemyapp: ...hmm. Cute.
15:02	indigo	Just convert all error messages to EHRMEHGERD
15:02	bitemyapp	nDuff: `cbp's nice work.
15:02	bitemyapp	nDuff: a lot of how the lambda-based API is dictated by how RethinkDB works.
15:02	`cbp	bitemyapp: I'll check the docs later today
15:05	bitemyapp	`cbp: I'm going to add some error handling test-cases tonight or tomorrow and see what I can do to clean it up.
15:07	`cbp	bitemyapp: okies
15:13	xeqi	dnolen: you're refering to using readers/indexing-push-back-reader rather than LineNumberingPushbackReader. ?
15:19	dnolen	xeqi: yes
15:28	dnolen	xeqi: patch does not apply to master, needs a rebase
15:28	dnolen	xeqi: also is this configurable? would be nice to enable for browser REPL but default disabled for everyone else.
15:37	xeqi	dnolen: ack, pulling
15:39	xeqi	and not currently configurable. IJavaScriptEnv doesn't have a method for emitting js from a form. Is there a way to ask the repl-env if it is a browser REPL?
15:45	dnolen	hrm
15:47	dnolen	xeqi: k, don't worry about config for the patch - I'll poke around and enhancement after I apply it
15:57	rbuchmann	Does anyone have an idea why this: (js->clj (.readdirSync fs path)) would return something that isn't ISeqable?
15:57	rbuchmann	fs is nodes fs
15:58	rbuchmann	It seems to be a js array still
16:00	hiredman	rbuchmann: clojurescript may not extend the protocols to native javascript stuff anymore, I seem recall there was something of a purge of that kind of stuff
16:01	rbuchmann	ok, granted, but isn't that what js-clj is supposed to be for?
16:01	rbuchmann	*->
16:01	hiredman	no idea, I am just guessing
16:02	rbuchmann	if I have to do a for [i (range (count foo))] loop I am going to cry bitter tears
16:02	rbuchmann	counting and agetting the result seems to work
16:10	rbuchmann	interesting, calling array? on it returns false...
16:17	yeoj___	is there a better way to do this? (= (str (type s)) "class java.lang.String")
16:18	rbuchmann	maybe (isa? ...)
16:18	technomancy	,(string? "yeoj___")
16:19	clojurebot	true
16:19	rbuchmann	or that :)
16:20	yeoj___	ok thanks.
16:20	llasram	And probably `instance?`, not `isa?`, for the general case
16:21	rbuchmann	right
16:21	yeoj___	i think i'm going with string? that makes sense to me.
16:24	dnolen	xeqi: hmm, something still wrong with that patch, trying to see how it affects Rhino REPL and I get a bunch errors about set! when testing with ./script/repljs
16:27	rbuchmann	no one volunteering for the node array issue? I got it working using the aforementioned loop, but it bugs the hell out of me
16:30	dnolen	rbuchmann: it should get converted into a vector
16:30	rbuchmann	well, it definitely isn't :)
16:31	rbuchmann	It's not sequable, and the output to the console is the freaky #< foo > stuff
16:31	rbuchmann	Does node do anything differently with its arrays?
16:32	dnolen	rbuchmann: are you sure it's an array and not some weird JS Array like?
16:32	rbuchmann	no, although the type was given as something like "Array function() { ... }"
16:32	rbuchmann	Any way to find out?
16:34	rbuchmann	#<function Array() { [native code] }> to be precise
16:34	rbuchmann	and I can aget and count it
16:34	rbuchmann	js is weird...
16:35	dnolen	rbuchmann: ok this seems like a bad predicate on ClojureScript's side, instanceof Array on the result of calling fs.readdirSync -> false
16:35	dnolen	even through fs.readdirSync("./").constructor == Array
16:35	dnolen	s/through/though
16:35	rbuchmann	aha
16:36	rbuchmann	so, what does cljs do to get a different result...? gonna look at the source...
16:37	dnolen	rbuchmann: the array? predicate in CLJS is not right, it appears we have to use multiple tests
16:37	dnolen	(x && x.constructor == Array) I think
16:38	rbuchmann	so it is a proper cljs bug?
16:38	dnolen	rbuchmann: yep
16:38	arkh	I'd like to learn how to use core.match but I haven't learned pattern matching previously. Google searches don't turn up much useful for learning pattern matching (and most examples are in haskell). Anyone know of a good pattern matching resource?
16:38	rbuchmann	hooray, my first ;)
16:38	rbuchmann	should I report it?
16:39	dnolen	rbuchmann: yes please, should be simple to fix, but very annoying - JS really goes out of it's way to make shit slow
16:39	edw	Hey guys. We're hiring in NYC again. <https://gist.github.com/edw/7326822>
16:39	rbuchmann	haha
16:39	rbuchmann	ok, will do
16:39	rbuchmann	thanks!
16:40	arkh	edw: your gist returns a 404
16:40	juxovec	Hi do any of you have experience with core typed?
16:41	edw	That is unpossible.
16:41	edw	Do you include the ">"?
16:41	juxovec	each time I try to use it, it throws exception: "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.AssertionError: Assert failed: (not compile-files), compiling:(state.clj:68:1) "
16:41	arkh	edw: I did ... and I've failed the pre-interview ...
16:41	dnolen	what an abomination - http://jsperf.com/isarray-vs-instanceof/7
16:42	edw	Sense of humor (and self deprecation) is highly prized.
16:43	arkh	edw: ; )
16:43	hiredman	juxovec: if I had to guess, you have a call to the type checking stuff somewhere that is being evauluated when you compile your project, and it really doesn't want to be called when the project is being compiled
16:43	hiredman	juxovec: how are you running it? lein-type(d)?
16:44	juxovec	I have not task called lein typed
16:44	hiredman	it is a plugin for lein
16:44	juxovec	yes I added (cf) or (check-ns) directly to namespace
16:44	hiredman	https://github.com/frenchy64/lein-typed
16:44	hiredman	juxovec: don't do that
16:45	edw	For what it's worth, I hired our second-most recent addition to the team from #clojure.
16:45	bitemyapp	Has anybody used this generic resource pooling library for Clojure or know of something they like? -> https://github.com/robertluo/clj-poolman
16:46	juxovec	thanks
16:46	juxovec	I didnt know about that plugin
16:49	rbuchmann	dnolen: haha, totally straightforward
16:50	dnolen	rbuchmann: oh hmm ...
16:50	rbuchmann	-.-
16:51	dnolen	rbuchmann: actually going to have think about this some more, may not be a bug and a problem with JS values crossing contexts
16:51	dnolen	which I have no desire to handle
16:51	rbuchmann	hm, ok
16:51	rbuchmann	gonna file anyway, can always close it later :)
16:52	dnolen	rbuchmann: ok a reasonable approach for that patch.
16:52	dnolen	rbuchmann: would be to emit different code if the compile target is Node.js
16:53	dnolen	Array.isArray(x) for Node.js and everyone else will continue to use instanceof
16:53	hlship	A quick question about the (ns) macro
16:53	rbuchmann	oh, ok
16:53	hlship	From what I can tell, the requirement for the clauses (use / require / etc.) to be keywords was lifted back in 1.2-ish
16:53	dnolen	rbuchmann: so ticket welcome, it's a easy thing to patch.
16:54	rbuchmann	ok ^^
16:54	hlship	So I prefer (ns x.yz (require [p.d.q :as q])) stile
16:54	hlship	style
16:54	hlship	that is, symbols, not keywords
16:54	dnolen	rbuchmann: thanks for the report!
16:54	hlship	it seems like the vast majority of the world still uses keywords
16:54	rbuchmann	sure, np, thanks for the help
16:54	technomancy	hlship: ns allows you to do all kinds of insane things. resist the temptation
16:54	rbuchmann	sorry for not figuring out the patch myself, not that familiar with the cljs source
16:54	technomancy	it is a known problem
16:55	dnolen	rbuchmann: pretty non-obvious I'd say :)
16:55	bitemyapp	oh look, a new problem for which there isn't a satisfactory solution. Better write a new library.
16:55	rbuchmann	yeah ^^
16:55	hlship	true; but if the ability to use symbols, not keywords, was intentionally introduced ... was that intention to move towards symbols and away from keywords?
16:56	rbuchmann	dnolen: oh, actually that wouldn't help me :D I use node-webkit, so the target is standard js, it just has access to node stuff
16:56	rbuchmann	dnolen: but that's probably a vast minority ^^
16:57	ToBeReplaced	bitemyapp: apache-commons?
16:57	bitemyapp	ToBeReplaced: locks, icky.
16:57	bitemyapp	also, java.
16:57	technomancy	hlship: symbols in ns actually works in 1.0.0
16:58	hlship	interesting; I looked at the source and thought the changes to support symbols was more recent
16:59	ToBeReplaced	what is the difference between (use 'foo :only [bar]) and (require 'foo :refer [bar])?
16:59	hlship	So, is the history something like "hey, require inside the ns macro is different than outside it, let's fix that by making it a keyword, e.g., :require" ?
16:59	ToBeReplaced	assuming there is one since the require :refer isn't available in cljs
17:00	technomancy	hlship: right; ns is supposed to read as being declarative
17:00	technomancy	even though you can put whatever you want in it
17:00	hlship	Maybe I'll change some of my code; I prefer the look using symbols rather than keywords.
17:00	technomancy	(ns insane.stuff (println :some :thing))
17:01	hlship	But apparently it might through people for a loop.
17:01	technomancy	hlship: down that road lies bracket placement wars
17:01	technomancy	it's just not worth it
17:02	yeoj___	the source says flush is simply (. out (flush)) ... how but if i call flush while a long-running function is happening nothing comes out at the repl when i issue a println ?
17:04	indigo	bitemyapp: I just had the most terrible idea... ClojurePHP
17:05	dnolen	indigo: there have already been several attempts at that
17:08	rbuchmann	dnolen: You do know that Halloween is over? :D
17:08	TimMc	Halloween is a state of mind.
17:09	indigo	dnolen: Thankfully none of those have been successful
17:11	llasram	It sometimes seems like the most frequently-mentioned languages on this channel are Clojure, then PHP, then Java
17:12	noncom	what is the best solution for interleaved better-be-tailrec loops? here is a pseudocode: https://www.refheap.com/20503
17:12	yeoj___	english is often mentioned
17:13	noncom	i know that this look tooooo imperative and non-clojuric, but i have to put this little if-based algorithm into my program in one single tiny place...
17:13	llasram	noncom: AFAIK there isn't a good one. There was some discussion of named `recur` targets on the dev list, but I don't believe has left the design-discussion stage
17:14	noncom	llasram: yeah, i googled into them a few minutes ago..
17:14	llasram	yeoj___: I'm going to call use/mention distinction on that one :-p
17:14	gfredericks	I thought amalloy had written something
17:14	S11001001	noncom: iterate, dorun
17:14	S11001001	er, iterate, drop-while, first
17:14	noncom	oh
17:15	noncom	i guess i will have to create an artificial mocking infinite lazy pseudo-seq for that.. right?
17:16	TimMc	llasram: grep counts 957 instances of \bphp\b (case-insensitive) since March 2011.
17:17	indigo	Ruby is probably mentioned more
17:17	llasram	If you go an inflate the numbers like that, sure :-p
17:18	noncom	so looks like (iterate) handles this sequence-creation part
17:18	bitemyapp	other than apache commons, are there any libraries people tend to use for resource pooling?
17:18	TimMc	If I filter out "java.", I still get ~15k instances of java.
17:19	TimMc	Clojure, with word boundaries and excluding #clojure, counts to nearly 100k.
17:19	TimMc	Ruby: 2315
17:20	llasram	I'm glad to know my impression in this regard is false
17:20	noncom	S11001001: i can't really figure how to do that.. could you refheap the main structure, somehthing like my pseudocode?
17:21	seangrove	I wonder if js's function.length is an artifact of implementation (I doubt it) or a special case where someone thought "Oh, we could pretend arity is length!"
17:22	bitemyapp	seangrove: I smell a place where a type system could've saved some pain >:)
17:22	bitemyapp	my spidey-types are tingling!
17:22	`cbp	you can do that? :/
17:22	bitemyapp	ucb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4Bb1g8k8mQ
17:23	seangrove	bitemyapp: Well, the pain was burned in ages ago, I know about .length now..
17:23	bitemyapp	`cbp: terrifying, no?
17:23	TimMc	seangrove: Whoa.
17:24	noncom	http://ejohn.org/blog/javascript-method-overloading/
17:25	bitemyapp	Watching my rabbitmq socket descriptors go from "3 -> 138 (out of 138 available)" and watch it blast to "red" is way more entertaining than it should be.
17:26	seangrove	noncom: Clean and neat T.T
17:26	seangrove	bitemyapp: What're you using rabbitmq for? We need to get off of clojure-resque, the lag is hirrific
17:27	S11001001	noncom: on second thought, welp, (loop [] (if a? (something) (loop [] (when-not b? (recur)))) (recur))
17:27	bitemyapp	seangrove: that's how data gets propagated to the data warehouse I'm working on
17:27	bitemyapp	seangrove: it's been integral to the system I'm building/have built
17:27	bitemyapp	I'm really just hardening it up and doing some resource exhaustion whack-a-mole :)
17:28	bitemyapp	turns out, when you use a fast language that is capable of spawning n-threads, you can exhaust resources really quickly compared to your coworkers' python code
17:28	noncom	S11001001: but won't that be nested loops instead of interleaved?
17:29	noncom	really i can think of a solution where i use a couple of atoms to semaphore the correct branching but it... uh well.. smells..
17:30	S11001001	noncom: what you wrote was nested
17:31	llasram	S11001001: yeah, but the inner `loop` needs to `recur` to the outer `loop`
17:31	noncom	S11001001: it would be nested with current clojures loop-recur implementation. however, i put imaginary loop names there to stress the interleaving..
17:32	S11001001	noncom: if you want mutual recursion, put a switch in a single loop and use it to pick which path you want on each go-round.
17:32	noncom	yes, i think thats the only way..
17:32	noncom	well at least you think so too :D
17:36	llasram	letfn + trampoline would be (maybe) slower, but might be more readable
17:45	brainproxy	anyone know what's up with ctrl-meta-... sequences in terminal emacs on mac using iterm2?
17:46	brainproxy	it's like iterm2 is swallowing the ctrl key
17:47	bitemyapp	brainproxy: it's not great, I use Emacs for Mac OS X, not the terminal.
17:48	casper1	I am wondering, is it possible to create a default implementation in extend-protocol? (like providing :else in a cond)
17:48	llasram	casper1: Sure. Just extend the protocol to `Object`
17:49	llasram	Er, assuming you were talking about JVM Clojure
17:49	casper1	indeed i am :)
17:49	brainproxy	bitemyapp: i prefer "graphical" emacs on mac os x too; but when pairing, it's simpler to use wemux and terminal emacs
17:50	S11001001	brainproxy: mess with your terminal preferences, IIRC 10.6 added the needed tweaks
17:50	bitemyapp	brainproxy: nuts.
17:50	casper1	and thanks, i'll try that one
17:50	S11001001	oh, iterm2, no idea
17:51	ubikation	hey what is it called if I want to write a function to deal with multiple kinds of arguments?
17:51	abaranosky	polymorphic
17:51	ubikation	am I looking for dynamic dispatch or typed clojure or what?
17:51	ubikation	ah
17:51	abaranosky	ubikation: you can use multimethods or protocols
17:52	llasram	brainproxy: I know that for (u)xterm I needed to (re)define some of emacs' input->key mappings for my terminal settings
17:52	llasram	https://github.com/llasram/rcfiles/blob/master/basic/emacs.d/init.el#L164-L171
17:52	ubikation	abaranosky: which would you recommend? which has better performance?
17:52	llasram	brainproxy: If you can figure out what your terminal is dishing up, it shouldn't be too hard to get emacs to accept it as the right key-combos
17:53	abaranosky	ubikation: it depends :)
17:53	abaranosky	but protocols have better performance
17:53	abaranosky	but I usually only care about performance to any degree after profiling
17:54	llasram	And they do have properties which I think distinguish them more than performance...
17:55	llasram	It definitely makes them very different that you can extend multimethods to arbitrary non-type things, and that you can `reify` protocols
18:08	j`ey	TimMc: hiya
18:09	j`ey	TimMc: oh, maybe a case of mistaken identity
18:10	TimMc	Perhaps. This is Tim McCormack.
18:10	j`ey	TimMc: wrong Tim
18:10	j`ey	TimMc: sorry for the noise!
18:11	akurilin	If you write a guide on iostreams for clojure cookbook, you will enjoy eternal glory.
18:11	TimMc	Hah, no worries.
18:12	indigo	#include <iostream>
18:12	indigo	>:D
18:13	akurilin	indigo, :P
18:14	ubikation	abaranosky: which are easier to play around with?
18:35	hlship	Is there a lein plugin for copying documentation to an FTP server? Right now, I'm doing that manually, producing docs via codox.
18:35	hlship	Didn't see anything on the lein plugins wiki page.
18:37	technomancy	hlship: lein-shell+rsync?
18:41	mtp	what is ftp?
18:41	technomancy	mtp: ask your grandpa
18:41	mtp	Ah! a protocol that existed before TCP/IP
18:42	mtp	neat historical find, surely it isn't used on today's internet
18:42	hlship	That's nothing; I think I once used gopher
18:42	gfredericks	when a file and a computer love each other very much...
18:42	hlship	and there was a time when I was king because I had the only 1200 baud modem
18:43	TimMc	Email used to run on FTP, IIRC.
18:43	hlship	I'm not sure rsync is an option for me; I'll have to see what my hosting provider allows
18:43	hlship	it's really just a static site
18:43	TimMc	hlship: If you have SSH, you have rsync.
18:43	hlship	And I don't have SSH, so that's the issue.
18:43	hlship	I can FTP, or use their web dashboard.
18:44	TimMc	Solution: Get a better host. :-P
18:44	TimMc	(Only 1/4 joking.)
18:44	hlship	True, I just already have this one, and don't want to bother.
18:44	hlship	At some point, I should learn how to use Amazon's EC2 for this kind of stuff.
18:44	hlship	It's on my endless to do list
18:44	TimMc	nearlyfreespeech.net is pretty great, especially for static sites.
18:45	hlship	But I think I'd rather learn how to use Unity3d than EC2 right now
18:45	TimMc	(Dynamic options are limited to PHP and I think some CGI stuff, oh well.)
18:45	hlship	if I had an free time
18:45	hlship	s/an/any/ :)
18:47	mtp	TimMc‘ read the dates on the relevant RFCs
18:48	TimMc	OK, so what the crap did it use?
18:49	mtp	s,dates on,, ???
18:49	lazybot	mtp: How could that be wrong?
18:49	TimMc	RFC 765 mentions TCP
18:50	TimMc	But that's 1980, which is not what Wikipedia mentioned...
18:50	TimMc	WP has 1971 for FTP and 1974 for TCP.
18:51	brehaut	[citation needed]
18:53	TimMc	Well, RFC 114 (first FTP RFC) mentions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program
18:54	brehaut	huh intersting
18:55	TimMc	Yeah. I've never dug into the pre-TCP stuff.
18:57	mtp	<mtp> neat historical find, surely it isn't used on today's internet
18:58	mtp	:)
19:01	akurilin	Is it fair to say that contains? cannot be used on a sequence, and you need to use something like into [] to make it work?
19:06	also	are there any good clojure parser libraries are usable with clojurescript?
19:09	dnolen	also: a port of instaparse to CLJS would be awesome
19:12	bitemyapp	akurilin: correct, but contains? on a vector is probably not what you want.
19:12	bitemyapp	akurilin: contains? is about associative data.
19:12	bitemyapp	,(contains? [:a :b :c :d] :a)
19:12	clojurebot	false
19:12	bitemyapp	,(contains? #{:a :b :c :d} :a)
19:12	clojurebot	true
19:12	bitemyapp	you want a set.
19:13	bitemyapp	sets are associative by value, maps are associative by key (pointing to value), and vectors are associative by integral index (pointing to value)
19:13	akurilin	bitemyapp, probably explains why it's not listed under vectors in the cheatsheet
19:13	bitemyapp	but the "subject" of the "associative by" is what you're checking for WRT contains?
19:13	bitemyapp	it's got a grammar/logic to it.
19:15	bitemyapp	what's a verb for a basin?
19:15	bitemyapp	I need NLP-as-a-service.
19:15	akurilin	bitemyapp, thanks for explaining, that's helpful.
19:15	also	dnolen: yeah, that would be exactly what i wanted if it existed.
19:15	bitemyapp	akurilin: thumbs_up.gif
19:16	also	has anyone written about porting from clojure to clojurescript? experiences or tools?
19:16	dnolen	also: probably wouldn't be much work to port, probably possible to do with cljx
19:17	also	dnolen: i'll give that a try
19:23	bja	does anyone know of clojure opportunities in chicago or remote?
19:23	bja	I'd prefer to stay working within clojure or another functional language
19:23	technomancy	isn't groupon in chicago?
19:25	bitemyapp	bja: I've seen a couple of Chicago lookin' posts on the mailing list.
19:25	bitemyapp	technomancy: oh they're still in business?
19:25	technomancy	bitemyapp: well... act fast
19:26	technomancy	could be a limited time employment offer
19:28	gfredericks	groupon is in chicago and we have at least a dozen people writing clojure
19:28	bitemyapp	technomancy: heard more good things about Seattle from some developers recently. Still concerned about the state of FP/Lisp (Clojure)/ML/Haskell out there.
19:28	bitemyapp	gfredericks: if you can answer, what sort of things does Clojure get used for there?
19:29	technomancy	bitemyapp: I think Bartosz Milewski (formerly of D) recently started up a haskell thing here
19:29	muhoo	good things are always niche
19:29	muhoo	sturgeon's law
19:30	bitemyapp	technomancy: oh god no, he's one of those Yesod people
19:30	bitemyapp	I'd rather get flayed with a Cat o' Nine Tails covered in salt
19:30	technomancy	haha
19:30	bitemyapp	brilliant people, but the stack is &_____&
19:31	technomancy	he visited a seajure meeting once asking concurrency questions to steal ideas for D
19:31	gfredericks	bitemyapp: lots of data services; some storm
19:31	bitemyapp	~/code/basin/src/basin/holds/ya/resources/in/da/pool.clj
19:31	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
19:31	pjstadig	clojurebot: botsnack
19:31	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
19:31	technomancy	bitemyapp: also: home of F# =D
19:32	bitemyapp	technomancy: HUE HUE HUE HUE
19:32	bitemyapp	(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
19:33	hiredman	gfredericks: how is storm?
19:34	technomancy	bitemyapp: there is a seafunc group, but they meet like 3-4x a year
19:34	technomancy	in grocery stores and stuff; it's really weird
19:34	bitemyapp	o_O
19:34	gfredericks	hiredman: I haven't used it personally; I think the team that does has had good success on the whole
19:34	bitemyapp	technomancy: they're mad category theorists?
19:35	technomancy	bitemyapp: I only have been to one meeting
19:36	brehaut	i managed to read one page of Basic Category Theory for Computer Scientists before my brain combusted.
19:36	S11001001	muhoo: naw man https://twitter.com/odersky/status/395831667333406722
19:36	technomancy	the one I went to didn't strike me as such; they were talking about Okasaki and how to make circular references with immutability or something
19:36	technomancy	S11001001: haha
19:36	technomancy	like he doesn't know?
19:37	bitemyapp	brehaut: really? http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~sme/presentations/cat101.pdf‎
19:37	S11001001	technomancy: I don't know
19:37	S11001001	technomancy: it's very confusing
19:39	sritchie	do you guys have recommendations on embedding a product blog into a site?
19:39	sritchie	embedding a little jekyll blog seems slightly overkill,
19:39	sritchie	with a redeploy for each new post
19:39	brehaut	bitemyapp: nope. http://www.amazon.com/Category-Computer-Scientists-Foundations-Computing/dp/0262660717
19:39	bitemyapp	sritchie: I made a micro-CMS, you could reuse the routes.
19:39	bitemyapp	https://github.com/bitemyapp/neubite/ I don't know if you want to use MongoDB just for that though.
19:40	bitemyapp	I don't know if you want to use MongoDB at all really.
19:41	sritchie	hmm
19:41	sritchie	yeah, maybe not
19:41	sritchie	maybe jekyll's not too bad of an option
19:41	bitemyapp	Pedestal has a pretty useful componentization of sub-apps and routes within a global router, that would make it fairly straight-forward to make a sub-CMS thingy.
19:41	bitemyapp	sritchie: I would tend to say jekyll's a good idea if your needs are limited.
19:42	bitemyapp	if you need something full-blown like a Django app wedded to Django CMS, then...some work will need to be done.
19:42	bitemyapp	yogthos: need an embeddable CMS.
19:42	bitemyapp	yogthos: static and db-backed.
19:42	bja	bitemyapp: as someone who has been responsible for a django-cms-based product, you'll need to do some work on Django CMS if you want to use it too
19:43	sritchie	yeah, we don't really need a CMS, this is more for product announcements
19:43	bitemyapp	bja: I know.
19:43	bitemyapp	sritchie: jekyll / hakyll / misaki / static time then.
19:47	bitemyapp	yogthos: also, sub-application routing.
19:47	bitemyapp	(in Ring)
19:56	bitemyapp	Just found an improper resource acquisition in my code, made this gesture in front of my computer: http://i.imgur.com/v7mvMJh.jpg
20:06	bja	bitemyapp: any suggestions on github issues that a non-CLA-signed developer might work on in clojure land?
20:06	bja	I'm bored and in a hotel room
20:06	bitemyapp	bja: you can't contribute anything to Clojure itself as a non-signatory of the CA, but there are independent open source projects
20:06	bitemyapp	bja: I actually have something in Revise you could work on!
20:07	bitemyapp	there are other libraries I could recommend if that doesn't interest you.
20:07	bitemyapp	bja: what sort of thing do you want to work on?
20:08	yogthos	bitemyapp: ? :)
20:08	bitemyapp	yogthos: what?
20:08	yogthos	(bitemyapp) yogthos: also, sub-application routing.
20:08	bitemyapp	yogthos: I'm sharing ideas.
20:08	bitemyapp	yogthos: embeddable CMS Ring app (embeddable in existing web apps) and sub-application routing.
20:09	yogthos	ah
20:09	bja	bitemyapp: nothing in particular I want to work on. I'm just bored and want to make contributions on github
20:09	yogthos	could work
20:10	bitemyapp	bja: https://github.com/bitemyapp/revise/issues/2
20:16	blr	out of interest, is anyone building anything in pedestal that doesn't fit the 'real-time, collaborative' usecase that relevance describe the framework is ideal for?
20:56	muhoo	is there some magick to make byte arrays in clojure without "java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Value out of range for byte: 184" etc?
20:56	brehaut	muhoo: short arrays ?
20:56	brehaut	muhoo: or sadness?
20:57	muhoo	i tried (-> seq-of-bytes-as-ints (map (partial bit-and 0xff)) (into-array Byte/TYPE))
20:57	muhoo	fucking signed bytes in java
20:57	brehaut	,Byte/MAX_VALUE
20:57	clojurebot	127
20:57	hyPiRion	muhoo: (partial unchecked-byte) instead
20:57	hyPiRion	,(unchecked-byte 255)
20:57	clojurebot	-1
20:57	hyPiRion	,(unchecked-byte 256)
20:57	clojurebot	0
20:58	muhoo	hyPiRion: perfect! thanks!
20:58	hyPiRion	Actually, you can just remove the (partial ...) wrapper, and just do unchecked-byte
20:58	hyPiRion	np, been there, felt the pain
21:00	blr	does anyone have any recommendations for getting started with frp in cljs? widje looks potentially useful
21:01	lynaghk	blr: https://github.com/lynaghk/todoFRP
21:01	lynaghk	might give you some ideas
21:01	blr	cool, hadn't come across that yet, thank you
21:04	blr	lynaghk: have you had a crack at a todo in pedestal-app?
21:12	sritchie	technomancy: is there a way to force the prep tasks to occur BEFORE aot all, in the uberjar profile?
21:12	sritchie	getting errors because the cljx files aren't ready yet
21:18	sritchie	anyone have any experience with that,
21:18	sritchie	with getting prep-tasks to run before aot?
21:22	lynaghk	sritchie: what version of cljx are you running?
21:23	sritchie	[com.keminglabs/cljx "0.3.1"]
21:23	lynaghk	sritchie: I think your best bet is doing two lein invocations manually.
21:24	lynaghk	sritchie: where you twiddle the with-profiles option as necessary.
21:24	sritchie	gotcha
21:24	sritchie	I think so - but this is on heroku, and I'm not sure how to override the uberjar task
21:24	lynaghk	sritchie: you may need to use a custom buildpack, then
21:25	lynaghk	but yeah. if you're on heroku then you definitely want to get an official answer from technomancy
21:25	lynaghk	= )
21:26	lynaghk	sritchie: I really enjoyed your blog post about running Leadville, btw. That's boss.
21:26	sritchie	thanks, man
21:26	sritchie	far, far shorter runs have been kicking my ass lately, not sure how it all came together on the day :)
21:27	lynaghk	sritchie: yeah dude, I just did my usual run around the PDX-area volcano and my achilles is pissed. it's slowly dawning on me that I'm no longer 14 and invincible.
21:29	sritchie	so! my solution for that, for combating that a bit longer -
21:29	sritchie	I'm leaving Twitter on Friday and probably moving to Boulder around jan or feb
21:29	sritchie	and working full time on this clojure webapp I keep asking about, www.paddleguru.com
21:30	lynaghk	sritchie: oh, rad! congrats dude.
21:31	lynaghk	sritchie: I'm going to the Go conference in Denver in April, if you want to try and meet up for a beer
21:31	xuser	Go is bad word here
21:31	lynaghk	xuser: Go does a lot of stuff right, and we've taken quite a number of their good ideas.
21:32	sritchie	awesome, that sounds great
21:32	sritchie	I'll be speaking at the conj as well
21:32	lynaghk	xuser: e.g., core.async.
21:32	lynaghk	sritchie: I'm missing it this year, unfortunately.
21:32	sritchie	ah, too bad
21:32	sritchie	yeah, denver it is
21:32	lynaghk	sritchie: rad. catch you in a few months, then = )
21:32	sritchie	boom
21:33	lynaghk	I've got to run for now though. Good luck with cljx
21:33	sritchie	I'll try to be more wizardly in cljs by then
21:33	sritchie	trying my custom buildpack now
21:33	blr	I find it disconcerting that "import 'github.com/foo'" is apparently standard practice in golang
21:34	xuser	lynaghk: just joking cause some here like to make fun of Go ;)
21:35	xuser	lynaghk: I'm still learning clojure, is core.async similar to gorotines and channels?
21:35	blr	xuser: actually _based_ on it iirc
21:36	xuser	blr: oh ok
21:36	xuser	I hear Haskell implements every concurrency model under the sun
21:37	ddellacosta	what am I doing wrong to get "ReasonPhrase: Forbidden" when calling lein deploy clojars? I've double-checked my clojars pwd and my gpg keys, and they are correct to the best of my knowledge.
21:37	ddellacosta	*correct/working
21:42	`cbp	bitemyapp: I suck with git and probably made a mess but i improved the docs i think
21:42	`cbp	bitemyapp: Gonna work on providing backtraces for rql errors
21:43	sritchie	technomancy: I ended up forking the buildpack and adding a call to cljx first
21:44	amalloy	`cbp: you're talking about https://github.com/bitemyapp/revise/commits/master ? it would be a little more polite/tidy to rebase rather than merge when it turns out upstream has moved on, but you don't seem to have made a big mess
21:45	`cbp	amalloy: I just did git pull and it merged automatically :-P
21:45	amalloy	yeah, i know
21:46	amalloy	i don't really like the "pull" command - it's nice when you're totally clueless, but after you get past that stage it's better to fetch, and then decide whether to merge, rebase, or something else. that's just my opinion, of course - git is very flexibly and there are a lot of reasonable workflows
21:54	concur	Is there a function like pmap which is good at iterating non-lazily with a function that has side effects?
21:55	brehaut	doc doall, dorun, doseq
21:55	concur	all I care about are the side effects
21:55	concur	it has to run in parallel though
21:55	concur	I guess I could use futures
21:55	concur	within a doseq
21:56	concur	wait, side-effects are a big no-no in futures, right?
21:56	concur	I mean, they're bad in general
21:57	concur	but aren't they particularly bad with futures?
21:59	seangrove	concur: (dorun (pmap ...))?
21:59	MrJones98	anyone here use groovy from clojure?
22:00	MrJones98	i'm looking at lein-groovyc and getting an NPE
22:00	concur	ooh, dorun isn't what I expected
22:00	concur	that's probably perfect
22:01	seangrove	concur: It should be good for computer-intensive, vs io-bound
22:02	brehaut	~pmap
22:02	clojurebot	pmap is not what you want
22:02	brehaut	sigh. i thought it explained that more because ive forgotten the details
22:02	ddellacosta	well, that's certainly definitive
22:03	brehaut	chunking, thread pools, something something
22:03	brehaut	http://blog.raek.se/2011/01/24/executors-in-clojure/ springs to mind
22:04	ddellacosta	brehaut: there's the standard doc too I suppose: http://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/pmap
22:08	concur	hmm, wrapping pmap in dorun didn't work on the whole sequence
22:09	concur	in fact it made less of the sequence get run
22:09	concur	maybe it's a problem in my function
22:13	concur	oh
22:13	concur	the side effects are working
22:13	concur	I'm running tests on those side effects
22:13	concur	and only some of the assertions are running for some reason
22:14	concur	they're all passing
22:16	concur	I'm in essense doing this:
22:18	concur	I was going to write it in a more general way
22:18	concur	but I'm just going to paste my code actually
22:18	concur	(dorun (pmap (fn [x] (rwl :write assoc x (* 2 x))) data))
22:18	concur	(dorun (pmap (fn [x] (is (= ((rwl :read) x) (* 2 x)))) data))
22:18	concur	so basically the first run populates a map
22:19	concur	and the second run asserts that each key is mapped to the right value
22:19	concur	yet for some reason it only does 970 assertions when there are 1000 items in the map
22:26	`cbp	bitemyapp: erm actually i have no clue what im doing so lets leave the backtrace for later...
22:38	Raynes	amalloy: I started using fetch about a month ago exclusively.
22:38	Raynes	Fwiw.
22:38	amalloy	man, i thought you meant fetch the cljs library or whatever it is
22:39	Raynes	heh
22:43	technomancy	sritchie: huh, so :prep-tasks didn't work for you?
22:43	sritchie	well, aot was running pre-prep task
22:43	sritchie	and then my clojure.tools.reader issue came back :)
22:43	sritchie	so I'm o to other issues
22:44	technomancy	sritchie: :prep-tasks runs before compilation
22:44	technomancy	can you provide a repro case where that doesn't happen?
22:44	sritchie	in the uberjar profile, that wasn't happening
22:45	sritchie	sure
22:47	ddellacosta	so, is it possible to re-deploy a jar that you've signed to clojars if you pushed it unsigned the first time? I'm having trouble figuring out how to do so.
22:48	amalloy	ddellacosta: is there a reason you can't just deploy a new version?
22:48	amalloy	like, announce that version 2.1 is no good, here's 2.2
22:50	technomancy	sritchie: I can reproduce having issues with :aot in the :uberjar profile, but all I'm seeing is that AOT is skipped entirely; prep-tasks still run
22:50	ddellacosta	amalloy: yah, I guess that's the easiest since it is a provisional release of someone else's library to fix a bug. But if it was a release of a real lib, it would bother me that I would have to bump the version number because the deploy went badly.
22:50	sritchie	okay, got a repro
22:50	technomancy	sritchie: oh, try this: :prep-tasks ^:replace ["cljx" "javac" "compile"]
22:50	sritchie	hmm
22:50	sritchie	https://gist.github.com/sritchie/7330591
22:52	technomancy	sritchie: this is really weird how I can't trigger compilation at all during jarring
22:53	technomancy	sritchie: oh, you know what it is...
22:53	sritchie	what's that?
22:53	technomancy	for some reason the default :prep-tasks is set to ^:displace
22:53	technomancy	so the existing value gets blown away when you specify your own value
22:53	technomancy	I have no idea why it works that way; hrm
22:53	technomancy	anyway, you'll need to put "compile" in :prep-tasks and it should be fine
22:54	technomancy	ddellacosta: yeah, I'm thinking about allowing redeploys of libs that don't have signatures that check out
22:54	technomancy	feel free to open an issue
22:55	ddellacosta	technomancy: I guess the main thing that I'm uneasy about is, are there security issues involved with allowing re-deploys? Was that why the choice was made initially?
22:55	ddellacosta	technomancy: or does it have to do more with repeatability?
22:56	ddellacosta	that seems like it would be a more cogent reason
22:56	technomancy	ddellacosta: more about security; if we assume immutability by default then any change to checksums is suspicious
22:56	technomancy	much easier to verify the repo in the case of a possible intrusion
22:57	technomancy	but maybe we can just say "hey, if it isn't signed, we shouldn't be trusting it anyway"
22:57	technomancy	or there could be an hour window or something
22:57	ddellacosta	technomancy: yah, okay, that's what I suspected. Yeah, I suspect that it could be conditional--the obvious thing would be, if it is unsigned allow pushing a signed version. Otherwise don't allow updates.
22:58	technomancy	ddellacosta: unfortunately it's not that simple
22:58	technomancy	you have to accept one file at a time; there is no transactionality about it
22:58	concur	is it possible that running multiple assertions with the is macro simultaneously could shadow one of the assertions?
22:58	technomancy	so you can't accept a jar provisionally assuming it's followed by an .asc
22:58	technomancy	because HTTP is stateless =(
22:58	technomancy	this is one place where scp is way better
22:59	concur	for some reason, some of my assertions are not being made in my call to pmap
22:59	concur	and it's a random number
22:59	ddellacosta	technomancy: ah, okay, I see. Hmm...so in that case allowing a window of time may make the most sense. During that time it can be considered untrusted...and after that no updates are allowed.
22:59	concur	I'm only seeing about 90-95% of the assertions I should be seeing
23:00	technomancy	ddellacosta: yeah, that makes verification mostly sound without annoying package authors
23:00	technomancy	probably a reasonable compromise
23:01	ddellacosta	technomancy: yeah, and I would agree with your suggestion earlier that unsigned packages should be considered untrusted, definitely. But in any case allowing a window would give someone like me who fumbled their first push the option to get a signed version up (for example, I'm sure there are other good reasons to allow a bit of a window).
23:02	cespare	Is there something like take for a string that just returns a string?
23:03	tim_	cespare: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/subs
23:03	cespare	tbaldridge: thanks
23:52	logic_prog	is there something more efficient than (apply vector (concat .... ) ) ?
23:52	logic_prog	I need something to return a vector, but concat returns a list
23:56	jared314	logic_prog: apply vec?
23:56	jared314	logic_prog: wait, that won't work
23:56	hfaafb	vec is apply vector
23:57	logic_prog	hmm, good to know
23:57	logic_prog	but is a list still constructed "in between" ?
23:58	logic_prog	well wait
23:58	logic_prog	(apply vector 1 2 3 '(4 5 6)) is okay
23:58	logic_prog	but (vec 1 2 3 '(4 5 6)) is not
23:58	logic_prog	seems like vec only takes 1 argument