#clojure – 2013-11-04

2013-11-04

00:14	bitemyapp	Raynes: http://logs.lazybot.org/irc.freenode.net/%23clojure/2012-11-11.txt ctrl-f "I want a driver for rethinkdb."
00:14	bitemyapp	Raynes: no excuses. hue hue hue hue hue hue hue hue
00:14	Raynes	bitemyapp: Yes, and that hasn't changed.
00:15	bitemyapp	you has one :D
00:15	Raynes	If I said "I sure wish there was a driver for rethinkdb so I could spend a bunch of time rewriting refheap to use it, that'd be great." then you should start sending me angry emails.
00:15	bitemyapp	sorry, I'm uber excited :)
00:15	bitemyapp	Raynes: oh no, I know.
00:15	Raynes	:p
00:15	Raynes	I'm excited about it too.
00:15	Raynes	Just more restrained.
00:15	bitemyapp	I don't think I grok restraint.
00:16	Raynes	I've got some projects I've been thinking of doing, so it'll see use by me soon I'm sure.
00:16	Raynes	I just really hate to fix what ain't broken in refheap.
00:16	bitemyapp	oh that's exciting!
00:16	bitemyapp	Totally understandable.
00:34	jared314	when you manually load leiningen project middleware, is there a way to force your middleware to the first?
00:35	jared314	or rerun the middleware with a new project map?
00:36	ddellacosta	jared314: what is leiningen project middleware?
00:36	jared314	ddellacosta: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/doc/PLUGINS.md#project-middleware
00:37	ddellacosta	jared314: ah, cool, didn't know about that.
00:37	jared314	trying to restructure my current lein plugin
00:37	ddellacosta	gotcha
02:06	ubikation	can someone help me figure out this code?: https://gist.github.com/ubikation/7299061 I'm getting the error: "IllegalArgumentException Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol clojure.lang.RT.seqFrom (RT.java:505)"
02:08	arrdem	ubikation: '(0 char-to-nums) is your problem
02:08	arrdem	,(let [char-to-nums :foo] (= '(0 char-to-nums) (list 0 char-to-nums)))
02:08	clojurebot	false
02:11	ubikation	arrdem: how do I correct that?
02:12	arrdem	ubikation: use a sequence literal. (list 0 char-to-nums) or [0 char-to-nums] would do the trick.
02:12	arrdem	s/literal/expression/
02:13	ubikation	arrdem: thanks! but I seem to still be getting a different version of that error: "IllegalArgumentException Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long"
02:14	arrdem	ubikation: well structurally you've got a major problem... recur doesn't do what you seem to think it does.
02:14	arrdem	http://clojure.org/special_forms#Special%20Forms--%28recur%20exprs*%29
02:16	ubikation	arrdem: so what do I do if I want to escape the arity?
02:16	arrdem	ubikation: you should also probably be using reduce, rather than a recursive apply
02:16	arrdem	ubikation: ^ that. reduce not apply.
02:16	ubikation	arrdem: thank you! I'll look into that.
02:19	arrdem	ubikation: you are trying to keep a running sum here, right?
02:20	ubikation	arrdem: yes
02:21	ubikation	hmm I'm getting stuck with this small part: (reduce (fn [x] (+ 26 x)) [1 2 3])
02:22	arrdem	ubikation: reduce takes a function f:[last-partial,this-step]->next-partial
02:22	arrdem	ubikation: I think you want #(+ 26 %1 %2)
02:22	arrdem	or (fn [x y] (+ x y 26)) without the # notation.
02:23	arrdem	also you don't need to (seq) a string... strings are already ISeqable so (map) will do that for you.
02:24	ubikation	arrdem: thank you so much for explaining things
02:24	arrdem	ubikation: no worries mate
02:39	bja	I don't think I've ever been as productive doing frontend stuff as I have recently with jquery+cljs
07:53	mikerod	(defrecord MyRec [x])
07:54	mikerod	(def m (->MyRec 5))
07:54	mikerod	(instance? MyRec m)
07:54	mikerod	(eval (defrecord MyRec [x]))
07:54	mikerod	(def m2 (->MyRec 5))
07:54	mikerod	(instance? MyRec m)
07:54	mikerod	(instance? MyRec m2)
07:54	mikerod	(= (type m) (type m2))
07:54	hyPiRion	wrong emacs window there
07:55	mikerod	hyPiRion: This is my question ... Probably should have done it differently
07:55	tbaldridge	mikerod: use gist
07:55	mikerod	https://gist.github.com/mjr4184/7302050
07:56	mikerod	sorry
07:56	mikerod	Although, I understand why m and m2 in this example are not the same instance
07:56	mikerod	with how the dynamic classes are created through different classloaders,
07:57	mikerod	this behavior has bit me quite a bit, with clj files being loaded from differetn classloaders
07:57	mikerod	"reloaded"
07:58	mikerod	I guess, should it just be frowned upon to use instance? checks with dynamically generated classes, like via defrecord
07:59	mikerod	I meant why m and m2 do not have the same `type` ***
08:16	clgv	mikerod: when you reevaluate a defrecord/deftype you create a new class that has just the same name but is a different class
08:19	mikerod	clgv: I understand that. What I'm saying is I have a clj file that had a defrecord in it. This file is used from two separate jars, the one that it is defined in, and another that is dependent on it. The second jar is loaded at runtime, and when it stumbles across a :require of this clj file, it reloads it, which reload the defrecord.
08:20	mikerod	So then the second jar, creates instances of the reloaded defrecord.
08:20	mikerod	When these are passed as args to fn's from the original jar, if those functions have instance? checks on this defrecord type, they will not work.
08:39	dabd	what is the clojure operator that given (nth s [1 2 3]) would transform it into (nth (nth (nth s 1) 2) 3)?
08:41	pyrtsa	dabd: (get-in s [1 2 3]) gets close
08:41	AimHere	pyrtsa, would that work on lists?
08:41	pyrtsa	Oh, probably not.
08:42	clgv	mikerod: you should not have the namespace only once included in one of the jars
08:42	clgv	-not
08:42	liszt	dabd: Look at reduce.
08:42	AimHere	,(reduce (partial nth [:a :b :c :d]) [1 2 3])
08:42	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Keyword cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
08:42	dabd	my guess is this could be a job for the threading macros, or maybe juxt or iterate but i'm not sure how
08:42	clgv	mikerod: if you need the namespace with the defrecord in two jars create a lib and lot those other two projects depend on the lib
08:43	pyrtsa	(reduce nth s [1 2 3]) works
08:46	dabd	,(reduce nth [[1 [2 [3 4 5] 6]]] [0 1 2])
08:46	clojurebot	6
08:47	mikerod	clgv: Hmm the namespace is only included in one jar, I guess the way this dependent jar is being loaded is somehow circumventing the typical load-once semantics of require
08:48	mikerod	I'm skeptical that clojure.core/loaded-libs is not being shared when the dependent jar is loaded
08:49	clgv	mikerod: oh I had this before
08:49	dabd	I would like to write a function that given a possibly nested list would return me a list of the indexes of each leaf. Such that I can reduce the list with nth and those indexes and obtain each leaf. Ex: Given ((a b) c) it would return ((0 0) (0 1) (1)) because (nth (nth lst 0) 0) = a (nth (nth lst 0) 1) = b and (nth lst 1) =
08:49	clgv	mikerod: be sure that all namespaces with "-" use "-" in the require statements and "_" in the import statements
08:49	dabd	c
08:50	clgv	mikerod: probably worth a ticket on jira
08:52	mikerod	clgv: I'm fairly sure I've handled the hyphen/underscore issues, though that is a fun one :)
08:53	clgv	mikerod: yeah I was sure as well
08:53	clgv	mikerod: until I saw an underscore in loaded-libs after digging into it for a longer time
08:56	mikerod	hmm ok, I will double check on that then
08:57	jcromartie	am I crazy or do I remember a "named?" in clojure.core
08:58	clgv	jcromartie: I have the same memory but needed to use instance? lately
09:00	Bronsa	there has never been a clojure.core/named? AFAIK
09:01	clgv	maybe it was discussed as useful inclusion
09:05	llasram	Hot code, fresh to the githubs: https://github.com/damballa/parkour
09:05	llasram	As a bonus for early users, the first 100 copies downloaded from clojars will contain a tiny fragment of my soul
09:06	cemerick	OK, what alternative Clojure/ClojureScript implementations/targets are people aware of? I'm pretty sure I have a comprehensive list, but I'd like to make sure.
09:06	bbloom	cemerick: where is your list?
09:07	cemerick	bbloom: nowhere public at the moment; clojurec, clojurescript-lua, clojure-py, Clojure.NET, clojure-scheme
09:08	cemerick	oh, four of them were in last year's survey
09:08	clgv	cemerick: you prepare the next survey? ;)
09:08	cemerick	clgv: yeah, probably going to publish later today
09:12	bbloom	llasram: pretty interesting stuff
09:12	llasram	bbloom: Thanks!
09:17	bbloom	llasram: also good motivation docs. i'm so glad that motivation.md or similar is something that frequently happen in this community :-)
09:18	bbloom	llasram: are you using this for something in particular? or was this just for fun?
09:18	bbloom	llasram: also, the "Reference" link in the readme is broken
09:31	llasram	bbloom: On my team at Damballa we've moved most of our Hadoop jobs to using this
09:32	bbloom	nice, good stuff
09:33	llasram	Not sure I how missed external-izing the Reference link... Fixed now. Thanks for catching!
09:36	llasram	I need to drop off for a bit, but would be glad to talk more later. I'm still in that project honeymoon stage where could talk about it all day :-)
09:43	mdrogalis	tbaldridge: Played around with pipelining in core.asyc this weekend. I knew how to do it in theory, just never sat down to actually write the code to do it. Very fun.
09:43	tbaldridge	mdrogalis: take a look at core.async/pipe sometime, may help with what you were doing in the blog.
09:44	mdrogalis	tbaldridge: Still need to take the time to look at all the new things you guys implemented.
09:45	mdrogalis	Ah, pretty cool. Pretty much wrapped the idiom. Nice.
09:48	mdrogalis	At least I remembered to use put! this time. Hah
09:48	tbaldridge	mdrogalis: lol nice
10:06	dnolen	ClojureScript source maps with relative paths to original sources in master, should be good enough to integrate into web based setups - enhancement patches of course welcome :)
10:09	hoeck	dnolen: Great!
10:15	dnolen	also enhanced :import for working with GClosure stuff more like Clojure http://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/commit/dbf31380b925815d832a6cc53364d063a59dafad
10:15	dnolen	:import for deftype/record dead as it never actually worked
10:16	bbloom	dnolen: so does that make goog.provide a future enhancement for something gen-class like?
10:20	dnolen	bbloom: hmm, don't think so. that's come up before, but I don't think that many people would use it.
10:20	stuartsierra1	dnolen: nitpicking, but `import` specifies a list, not a vector
10:20	dnolen	stuartsierra1: huh, but vector allowed?
10:20	stuartsierra1	dnolen: Yes, all the `ns`-related macros/functions are notoriously permissive in their arguments.
10:24	bbloom	stuartsierra1: at this point, i think the spec needs to expand. too much code just go all willy nilly with sequence literals in ns forms. there is no way it will ever change to be less permissive
10:25	dnolen	stuartsierra1: k, fixing that
10:25	dnolen	stuartsierra1: thanks
10:25	stuartsierra1	bbloom: Yes, but core examples should be consistent with the docstrings.
10:25	stuartsierra1	dnolen: thanks
10:53	dabd	I am attempting to use clojure.zip to solve this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19769208/nested-list-traversal but so far I couldn't do it. Is there anyone that can show me how to use zippers for this task? Thanks
11:01	dabd	why this works ,(let [x [0]] (update-in x [(- (count x) 1)] inc))
11:01	dabd	but this doesn't ,(let [x (butlast [0 1])] (update-in x [(- (count x) 1)] inc))
11:01	dabd	,(let [x [0]] (update-in x [(- (count x) 1)] inc))
11:01	clojurebot	[1]
11:02	dabd	,(let [x (butlast [0 1])] (update-in x [(- (count x) 1)] inc))
11:02	clojurebot	#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
11:03	andrewmcveigh	,(class (butlast [0 1]))
11:03	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentVector$ChunkedSeq
11:03	rplaca	dabd: butlast gives you back a seq, not a vector
11:03	dabd	so i need to call vec on it?
11:04	rplaca	that should work
11:14	dabd	I wrote a solution to this problem http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19769208/nested-list-traversal using clojure.zip. Any suggestions for improvement?
11:15	dabd	It's the first time I am using clojure.zip
11:23	ubikation	hello! I am having some trouble getting a somewhat simple example to work...
11:23	ubikation	(reduce #(+ (* 10 ( - (int %1) 48)) %2) [\0 [\4 \4 \4]])
11:24	ubikation	actually it's (reduce #(+ (* 10 ( - (int %1) 48)) %2) '(\4 \4 \4 \4))
11:25	andrewmcveigh	ubikation: This what you're trying to do? ##(reduce #(+ (* 10 ( - (int %1) 48)) (int %2)) '(\4 \4 \4 \4))
11:25	lazybot	⇒ 4492
11:34	ubikation	andrewmcveigh: thank you!
11:35	ubikation	also what's the best way to turn a list like '((\4 \4 \4)) into '(\4 \4 \4 \4)
11:35	gfredericks	...with a different number of 4's?
11:35	TimMc	first
11:36	TimMc	(constantly '(\4 \4 \4 \4)) :-P
11:36	gfredericks	ubikation: it's not really clear what your question means
11:36	ubikation	haha yeah first is exactly what I'm looking for.
11:39	TimMc	&(#(`[~@%](+)) '((\4 \4 \4 \4)))
11:39	lazybot	⇒ (\4 \4 \4 \4)
11:39	TimMc	^ There's a worse way
11:43	mdrogalis	TimMc: You're certifiably insane. :P
11:46	ubikation	can someone help me with lein? for some reason it's not working any more: https://gist.github.com/ubikation/7305498
11:46	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
11:47	TimMc	ubikation: That top-level map has :user and two {} forms.
11:47	TimMc	I think you want to combine those to {} forms.
11:47	TimMc	*two
11:48	TimMc	&{:user 'thing 'other-thing}
11:48	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Map literal must contain an even number of forms
11:53	ubikation	TimMc: thanks!
11:53	ubikation	hey, I have this new problem though:
11:53	ubikation	error in process sentinel: cond: Could not start nREPL server: Error loading ritz.nrepl.middleware.doc: Could not locate ritz/nrepl/middleware/doc__init.class or ritz/nrepl/middleware/doc.clj on classpath:
11:53	ubikation	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve var: ritz.nrepl.middleware.doc/wrap-doc in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)
11:53	ubikation	That's when I'm trying to jack into cider
11:57	muhoo	TimMc: is that swearjure?
11:57	TimMc	It is indeed.
11:58	TimMc	What else could it be?
12:00	kolemannix	So guys. If you were to try to dress up as a monad, how would you go about doing it?
12:01	TimMc	kolemannix: http://laurenvenell.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/tilted-860.jpg
12:02	gws	kolemannix: http://www.bostoncostume.com/images/products/7561.jpg
12:03	kolemannix	TimMc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Z7Hq4fhN0
12:03	coventry`	Maybe as the Emperor with No Clothes? :-)
12:05	kolemannix	gwd TimMc The burrito is actually a decent idea though. Maybe both a burrito and a spacesuit in one costume
12:11	gws	i think of monads more like this http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/388873690/1-Male-font-b-VGA-b-font-to-2-font-b-VGA-b-font-Female-Adapter.jpg but that's not really a costume
12:23	silasdavis	if I have a sorted subset of some objects and I want to an ordered list with the sorted object in their sorted order and the rest in some arbitrary order will (concat (set/difference (set all-objects) (set sorted-objects)) sorted-objects) work?
12:23	silasdavis	can I do any better, will I ended up with my sorted-objects in the correct order?
12:25	`cbp	silasdavis: I don't understand the question very well but have you tried it in a repl? Seems like you have the code already. Also you might wanna use sorted-sets?
12:25	ubikation	how do I fix this error?: (:use [dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet]) gives me "CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:1:1)"
12:26	hiredman	(:use [dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet]) needs to be part of a (ns ...) form like it was in the example you took it from
12:26	silasdavis	`cbp, it seems to work in a repl, something like (concat #{ 3 9 7} [9 4 2])
12:27	silasdavis	I'm just wondering if under some circumstances I might end up conj'ing onto a set
12:27	silasdavis	and thus lose the order of my ordered items
12:27	silasdavis	the only reason the set is there is so I can take the difference
12:27	`cbp	silasdavis: If you want order in a set use sorted-set
12:27	silasdavis	`cbp, I don't want order in the set
12:28	ubikation	I still get the same error when I try the whole ns thing: "(ns excel-test.core (:gen-class) (:use [dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet] :reload-all))"
12:29	`cbp	silasdavis: you want the set difference between 2 vectors?
12:29	silasdavis	yes
12:29	silasdavis	well probably a seq
12:30	`cbp	you could do (remove (set v2) v1)
12:31	justin_smith	what about (concat (remove (set sorted-objects) all-objects) sorted-objects)
12:31	justin_smith	oh, like `cbp just mentioned
12:31	jcromartie	I'm not loving the mustache templating libs I've seen so far
12:32	justin_smith	jcromartie: what do they lack? / have that you don't want?
12:33	mmitchell	Anyone here using Pristmatic's "schema"?
12:33	jcromartie	justin_smith: performance, consistency, resource focus, ability to use strings as keys, concurrent rendering, deref, etc.
12:33	justin_smith	jcromartie: I ask because I contribute to one of them that may be better, but I want to be sure before just telling you to go try that one - also whatever you need may be an improvement we could make eventually
12:33	jcromartie	I am going to work on my own
12:34	jcromartie	:P
12:34	jcromartie	just to add to the mess
12:34	jcromartie	but mine will be the right one :)
12:34	kolemannix	Hello. So If I have a map and I want to keep all the pairs for which the key starts with the character ".", ditch the rest of the pairs, and at the same time remove the leading "." from the keys, how would I go about doing that?
12:34	justin_smith	jcromartie: ours is used in production, so it is pretty good performance wise, it allows for a \| operator for chaining helpers, and arbitrary functions as helpers in the request map
12:35	kolemannix	I have a way of doing so but it's inefficient and not intuitive
12:35	hfaafb	kolemannix: filter then map?
12:35	jcromartie	basically, I should be able to do this: (let [templ (mustache "foo.mustache")] (templ {"this" "that" :foo (future (slurp "http://example.com/bar")}))
12:36	jcromartie	or ((mustache (.getBytes "this is a {{test}}")) {:test "test"})
12:36	kolemannix	hfaafb I'm doing that already, but in a really clunky way
12:36	kolemannix	(let [with-dots (->> (map list lines addresses)
12:36	kolemannix	(filter #(= (ffirst %) \.))
12:36	kolemannix	flatten
12:36	kolemannix	(apply hash-map))]
12:36	kolemannix	(zipmap (map remove-first (keys with-dots)) (vals with-dots))))
12:36	justin_smith	I am going to test out strings as keys, I think it works with our lib, but I am not certain, I will check it out in my current project
12:36	jcromartie	justin_smith: which lib?
12:36	jcromartie	clostache?
12:36	justin_smith	caribou/antlers
12:36	rasmusto	kolemannix: (into {} (map remove-the-dot (filter (fn [[k v]] (blah k))))
12:37	rasmusto	kolemannix: I'd do the filter for the dot first, then the removal in the "map" step
12:37	kolemannix	rasmusto Ahh into. I don't use into enough
12:37	justin_smith	https://github.com/caribou/antlers https://clojars.org/caribou/antlers
12:37	jtoy	if i have 2 lists like [{:a 2 :foo 23} {:a 1 :foo 213}] and [{:a 2 :bar 43} {:a 1 :bar 666}] and I want to join them or group them so that I can process them grouped by a, how would I do this?
12:37	rasmusto	you can use (into {}) to turn a list of keyval pairs back into the map
12:38	kolemannix	rasmusto thanks. that's the piece I was missing, the (zipmap keys vals) is so awkward
12:38	rasmusto	kolemannix: notice that the filter step destructures out the key, and the map step should do the same
12:38	hugod	jcromartie: doesn't stencil do all that?
12:39	jcromartie	there are SO MANY that I had no idea were there
12:39	jcromartie	wow
12:40	kolemannix	rasmusto thanks
12:40	llasram	Let a thousand templating libraries bloom!
12:40	justin_smith	jcromartie: I just verified, antlers works with string keys
12:40	jcromartie	that's good
12:41	jcromartie	I don't know why so many of them expose manual caching/registration
12:41	justin_smith	also notice the loop variables / aliases in the docs there, very useful
12:41	justin_smith	but of course I don't gain by you using ours instead of someone elses, so just use what works :P
12:41	jcromartie	I should be able to do my own memoization
12:41	jcromartie	:P
12:41	rasmusto	,(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(str (rest k)) v]) (filter (fn [[k v]] (= (first k) \.))))) {".one" 1 "two" 2 ".three" 3})
12:41	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$filter>
12:42	rasmusto	whoops, too many parens somewhere, but you get the idea
12:43	rasmusto	,(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(str (rest k)) v]) (filter (fn [[k v]] (= (first k) \.)) {".one" 1 "two" 2 ".three" 3})))
12:43	clojurebot	{"(\\t \\h \\r \\e \\e)" 3, "(\\o \\n \\e)" 1}
12:43	justin_smith	rasmusto: at scale, forcing strings to/from seq is expensive, and its not like (subs s 1) is hard to do
12:44	rasmusto	justin_smith: probably a good point, that'd fix the (apply str (seq blah)) that I'm missing
12:44	justin_smith	heh, that too
12:45	rasmusto	kolemannix: this is probably a good place to use ->>, since my mess is unreadable
12:46	justin_smith	,(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(subs k 1) v]) (filter (fn [[k v]] (= (subs k 0 1) ".")) {".one" 1 "two" 2 ".three" 3})))
12:46	clojurebot	{"three" 3, "one" 1}
12:46	rasmusto	there's nothing like a well-placed thread-last macro to brighten a monday morning :)
12:47	justin_smith	true enough
12:47	kolemannix	rasmusto I'll try to get a polished version working and readable and let you know when I do
12:48	rasmusto	kolemannix: okay, I'll take a sec to let you know about refheap.com for all of your clojure pasting needs
12:55	bitemyapp	`cbp: alright, I pimped Revise on HN, Reddit, Twitter, and random blogs.
12:55	`cbp	bitemyapp: <3
12:55	bitemyapp	`cbp: ping me if you need anything, I know I should write some test cases to see if I can break the thread-safety of the conn mgmt.
12:56	`cbp	bitemyapp: ok
12:56	bitemyapp	`cbp: also I added an explanation of the connection mgmt model to a file called connections.md in the repo.
12:56	`cbp	bitemyapp: I saw that
12:57	bitemyapp	`cbp: it also occurred to me that a generic resource pooling library like Haskell has would be kinda sweet.
12:57	bitemyapp	so I might consider ripping them off :P
12:58	`cbp	bitemyapp: would it be optional?
12:58	bitemyapp	yeah it's not anything I'm likely to add to Revise anytime soon
12:58	bitemyapp	and I'm not sold Revise needs connection pooling when the connections are lock-free.
12:58	bitemyapp	the connections only block for as long as it takes to send the query, not to recv.
12:59	bitemyapp	Mostly I'm just musing about it because I was watching a Bryan O'Sullivan talk and he mentioned a generic resource pooling library for Haskell that he wrote for the MySQL client driver.
12:59	bitemyapp	again, it's not something Revise strictly speaking needs, but the concept of a generic resource pooling library tickles me.
12:59	bitemyapp	especially if it wasn't overly JDBC specific like most are (ick)
13:00	`cbp	I'm not very familiar with haskell but I'll take a look
13:00	`cbp	next steps are implementing continue/stop queries
13:01	bitemyapp	`cbp: https://github.com/bos/pool
13:01	bitemyapp	`cbp: the main thing conn mgmt needs is a proper error handling model.
13:01	bitemyapp	it's ad-hoc agent recovery right now (lol)
13:01	`cbp	:-)
13:02	ubikation	can anyone help me understand why I am getting this error?: https://gist.github.com/ubikation/7306693
13:02	ubikation	thank you!
13:02	bitemyapp	and if it doesn't pan out the way I want, I might replace the agents with core.async, since I'm really using the agents for serialized message passing anyway.
13:02	bitemyapp	that or wrap the agent functions in a big-fat try-catch or something equally dumb.
13:03	bitemyapp	ubikation: (ns excel-test.core (:require [dk.ative.docjure.spreadsheet :refer :all]))
13:03	bitemyapp	ubikation: don't use :use.
13:03	bitemyapp	~use is don't use use.
13:03	clojurebot	Ok.
13:03	bitemyapp	okay, I'd better head to work.
13:03	bitemyapp	`cbp: catch you later
13:03	`cbp	bitemyapp: bye
13:03	ubikation	bitemyapp: thanks! but I'm still getting the same error though...
13:04	`cbp	ubikation: whats you're project.clj look like
13:04	`cbp	your*
13:04	`cbp	(assuming you're using leiningen)
13:05	bitemyapp	ubikation: if that didn't work then your classpath doesn't have the library and you didn't add the dependency to Leiningen properly.
13:05	bitemyapp	ubikation: Leiningen is configured through the project.clj `cbp mentioned, paste it on refheap.
13:05	TimMc	~use
13:05	clojurebot	I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
13:06	bitemyapp	~use
13:06	clojurebot	I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
13:06	bitemyapp	gerd dermert.
13:06	`cbp	clojurebot: botsnack
13:06	clojurebot	Thanks! Can I have chocolate next time
13:11	kolemannix	rasmusto https://www.refheap.com/20463
13:21	justin_smith	kolemannix: I tried a version of that using subs instead of sequence ops, and interestingly I saw little to no performance difference
13:21	justin_smith	I did not expect that, TIL
13:24	kolemannix	justin_smith which are usually considered slower, subs or sequence ops?
13:26	rasmusto	yay threading, this is going to be a good week
13:27	justin_smith	kolemannix: in general strings are much more optimized than seqs
13:27	justin_smith	also, they are immutible (one of the things vanilla java got right)
13:27	kolemannix	justin_smith Underneath it's just java strings yes?
13:27	justin_smith	kolemannix: yes, but with a seq you force the creation of a new seq object based on the string
13:28	justin_smith	then the creation of a new string out of the seq
13:28	justin_smith	unless that is being optimized
13:28	kolemannix	Sure. Only makes sense if you wanna do a lot of operations on the string
13:28	kolemannix	for just one operation all the conversion is overkill
13:28	justin_smith	*a lot of seq operations that are not also native string operations
13:29	justin_smith	that is why my instinct was to use subs instead of first/rest, but I guess the jvm and/or clojure was smart enough that it was not an issue
13:29	kolemannix	Yeah
13:29	kolemannix	I mean, there's gotta be a way to invoke native Java string ops using idiomatic clojure
13:29	kolemannix	without using the dot interop stuff
13:30	justin_smith	indeed there are... vis my version of that refheap: https://www.refheap.com/20464
13:31	justin_smith	first and rest are trivial to translate into subs
13:31	justin_smith	,(subs "hello" 1)
13:31	clojurebot	"ello"
13:32	kolemannix	ohhh. and here I thought you just meant subs as a shorthand for java substring ops
13:32	kolemannix	I didn't know it was an actual function >.<
13:35	kolemannix	justin_smith ran your version with subs on my actual data - got an IndexOOB exception... Another interesting factor to consider when weighting the differences of the 2 ways of doing it
13:38	xeqi	dnolen: I've got some local clojurescript changes to make cljs.repl/evaluate-form send inline source map information to the repl-env. This makes repl interaction show source maps in the browser. I've got a CA signed, is the next step a JIRA+patch?
13:39	xeqi	* next step for submitting the changes
13:39	bitemyapp	`cbp: https://news.ycombinator.com/ look at the #2 ranked item
13:40	`cbp	=D
13:40	dnolen	xeqi: that sounds really interesting, but how does that actually work?
13:40	justin_smith	kolemannix: heh, ok
13:41	justin_smith	must have had one letter strings as some of the keys I guess
13:41	`cbp	bitemyapp: maybe we could make a java wrapper and pass it off as the java driver? :)
13:41	kolemannix	justin_smith I mean, I like yours better, mostly because it gets rid of the (apply str) nonsense
13:41	kolemannix	just have to be careful about indices
13:41	dnolen	xeqi: like are you generating a source map for each evaluated form? Or you tracking things and serving a source map that's kept up to date?
13:42	xeqi	dnolen: source map for each evaluated form
13:42	dnolen	xeqi: seems like the experience would be a bit strange no?
13:42	seangrove	xeqi: Super interesting. I saw notes on how to do that
13:42	dnolen	seangrove: link?
13:42	xeqi	combination of using a data url w/ the sourcemap base64 encoded, sourcesContent to send the form inline in the source map, and naming the eval
13:42	xeqi	http://kybernetikos.github.io/jsSandbox/srcmaps/dynamic.html is one
13:43	dnolen	xeqi: whoa, k, yeah JIRA+patch please
13:43	xeqi	+ http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/developertools/sourcemaps/#toc-sourceurl for named evals
13:44	xeqi	k, will finish clean up and make one
13:44	seangrove	xeqi: Yeah, that's the one I was looking for ;)
13:46	dnolen	xeqi: mail in your CA, I can apply the patch before it arrives.
13:47	dnolen	xeqi: so does this make the REPL experience significantly better for you?
13:47	dnolen	this is first I've heard it can even be done
13:47	xeqi	dnolen: signed one at first conj, so already there
13:47	dnolen	xeqi: oh k cool
13:48	xeqi	breakpoints are ify, but things like (.error console "asdfasd") are significantly improved
13:48	xeqi	esp when using something like austin/piggieback and resending a buffer
13:49	bitemyapp	`cbp: a java wrapper? hum.
13:49	dnolen	xeqi: ah right, hrm I suppose piggieback and others could decide to generate in memory source maps on the fly ... anyways cool stuff!
13:50	bitemyapp	`cbp: hypothetically, yes...I don't know if it'd be worth it because re-exposing the query DSL as native Java would lead to the same amount of work, I think.
13:50	bitemyapp	`cbp: I foresee lots of clojure.lang.RT :P
13:50	timsg	when writing rewrite macros that transform certain list subforms, say those starting with 'foo, is there a received way to define 'foo? Best I can come up with is (def foo `foo), but that seems weird enough to suspect unintended consequences
13:51	bitemyapp	timsg: don't do that @ def
13:51	justin_smith	why would you use def?
13:51	justin_smith	err, what bitemyapp said
13:51	bitemyapp	timsg: show a before and after of what you want please.
13:51	bitemyapp	timsg: and do not do defs in macros or anywhere other than the top-level of a namespace.
13:51	coventry`	Using def makes the macro less flexible.
13:52	muhoo	mos def
13:52	coventry`	def in a macro is appropriate in some circumstances. E.g., deftest, defn, etc.
13:53	bitemyapp	coventry`: that's not what he's doing.
13:53	bitemyapp	coventry`: he's using it like a let.
13:53	coventry`	I realize that.
13:54	bitemyapp	then don't confuse the matter until it becomes clear they're writing something like deftest please.
13:54	bitemyapp	the distinction between the scenarios might be subtle to a new person and if you inject counterexamples of when it's appropriate before they know how to make the distinction, the opportunity to correct the mistake is lost.
13:54	coventry`	I wasn't the one who confused the matter. :-)
13:58	bitemyapp	`cbp: I think the HN post got a YC bump, lol.
13:59	bitemyapp	0 comments, 32 points, #2 on the frontpage? has to be.
13:59	bitemyapp	note to self: write more libraries for YC startup products.
13:59	seangrove	technomancy: Just finished accelerando, you recommend daemon or Count Zero next?
13:59	coventry`	Congrats.
13:59	`cbp	bitemyapp: heh
13:59	timsg	bitemyapp, coventry: devising a small example, one sec
14:00	bitemyapp	`cbp: OTOH, people are starring the repo.
14:00	coventry`	seangrove: Are you interested in cyberpunk lit recommendations?
14:00	bitemyapp	coventry`: well, if he isn't, I am.
14:00	seangrove	coventry`: Apparently. Getting back into fiction now that I have a kindle.
14:00	indigo	Oh cool, RethinkDB lib for clojure
14:01	bitemyapp	ah, no wait, #1 now.
14:01	bitemyapp	seangrove: I did the same, found it very gratifying to read fiction again, not just non-fiction.
14:01	bitemyapp	most relaxing leisure activity I have right now.
14:01	arrdem	bitemyapp: congrats on frontpage
14:01	indigo	I wonder what kind of crappy comments you'll get :P
14:01	seangrove	bitemyapp: It has been strangely useful. Liking it a lot.
14:01	bitemyapp	arrdem: congratulate `cbp, I'm just the Goebbels.
14:01	indigo	HN comments ftw
14:02	coventry`	seangrove, bitemyapp: A bit more pessimistic than Accelerando or Count Zero, but a lot of fun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Caryatids
14:02	`cbp	bitemyapp: don't discredit yourself :)
14:02	bitemyapp	seangrove: I find the relaxation of reading both very useful as well. Between that and Alan Watts talks, it's about as chill as I get :)
14:02	technomancy	seangrove: I haven't read daemon. I Like Count Zero a lot
14:03	bitemyapp	indigo: haven't gotten any comments yet.
14:03	`cbp	bitemyapp: #1 now, time to look for more yc companies
14:03	indigo	Heh
14:03	llasram	seangrove: I counter-recommend /Daemon/, unless you enjoy reading hilariously bad things
14:03	seangrove	technomancy: Looking into using slamhound, read the quote, thought I should look into it
14:03	seangrove	llasram: Is it really bad?
14:03	technomancy	I couldn't get into Accelerando though; it felt too much like it was trying to cram in as many ideas per page as possible instead of building up plot and characters and stuff
14:04	technomancy	"traditional storytelling"
14:04	wink	bitemyapp: congrats :D (saw and voted on HN)
14:04	indigo	bitemyapp: The syntax is quite different from Korma
14:04	llasram	seangrove: It starts off being plausible-interesting enough to forgive the cardboard characters. Ends with autonomous motorcycles rigged with swords wandering the streets
14:04	seangrove	technomancy: It got there towards the middle, the beginning was a bit weird
14:05	bitemyapp	indigo: I'm happy with the design `cbp has put together, but it was his design, not mine.
14:05	bitemyapp	wink: thanks!
14:05	indigo	Ah
14:05	coventry`	Count Zero is pretty good, but I enjoyed his newer stuff (Pattern Recognition etc.) more.
14:05	bitemyapp	indigo: make no mistake, I would've striven for a very similar design.
14:05	wink	bitemyapp: awesome readme
14:05	bitemyapp	wink: that's also `cbp, I only wrote the connections write-up (because that was my main contribution)
14:06	indigo	bitemyapp: It seems a bit more idiomatic
14:06	wink	now I only need to use rethinkdb finally
14:06	arohner	man, I forgot how cool clojure.set/index is
14:06	wink	been following dev for a while.. but no project :P
14:06	bitemyapp	arohner: pronk thanks for reminding me it exists :)
14:06	arohner	:-)
14:07	bitemyapp	wink: no excuses now, try it out with Revise!
14:07	bitemyapp	arohner: if you wanted to use RethinkDB, a Clojure driver exists now.
14:07	bitemyapp	also I'm aiming to release the migration toolkit for Datomic later this week.
14:07	dnolen	jonasen: seems possibly relevant for CLJSfiddle too - http://kybernetikos.github.io/jsSandbox/srcmaps/dynamic.html?
14:07	bitemyapp	annnnnd for anybody that wants Fabric recipes for deploying Clojure stuff, I put those up last weekend too.
14:08	arohner	bitemyapp: I haven't looked at rethink much, but the current theory is we're moving to datomic
14:09	bitemyapp	arohner: very interesting, what's the origin database in this scenario?
14:09	arohner	origin?
14:09	bitemyapp	what were/are you using before moving to Datomic.
14:09	bitemyapp	arohner: still pretty happy with Datomic at my company.
14:09	arohner	mongo
14:10	technomancy	awkward silence
14:10	dnolen	xeqi: was hooking into the source map functionality simple enough for you? I'm interested in enhancements here as I think it should definitely be usable for external tools.
14:10	seangrove	arohner: Perf., sec., or api driven?
14:11	arohner	perf & api
14:11	bitemyapp	seangrove: maybe, "don't want to keep doing mutable bit-smashing in our data store of record" driven?
14:11	gf3	bitemyapp: So you're not lolreduce on snapchat?
14:11	arohner	global write lock, all queries in production must be indexed, no history, limited search capability
14:11	bitemyapp	gf3: I have two accounts because I fucked up. h/o
14:11	noncom	hi anyone familiar with seesaw? how do i pass a programmatically assembled text to a label, so that \n characters in the string would make actual newlines in the label? currently they are simply non-printed and the text is a one-liner..
14:11	seangrove	bitemyapp: Well, there's no DatomicHQ, sadly
14:12	gf3	bitemyapp: phew
14:12	gf3	bitemyapp: Did I send you the cock windmill dude?
14:12	seangrove	bitemyapp: I'm not totally clear on how there could be other than just a "baby's first hosted datomic", but still sad.
14:12	bitemyapp	gf3: no
14:12	gf3	bitemyapp: OH SHI-
14:12	bitemyapp	seangrove: I posted fabric recipes for Clojure and other things recently, want one for Datomic? :P
14:12	gf3	bitemyapp: I legit saw a guy do a windmill with his penis IRL in a club, and I snapchatted it
14:13	`cbp	...what
14:13	seangrove	bitemyapp: Would rather have Datomic-as-a-service ;)
14:13	bitemyapp	gf3: why would you send this to me ;_;
14:13	bitemyapp	now I'm terrified of your snapchats.
14:13	gf3	bitemyapp: I thought I sent it to everyone
14:15	seangrove	dnolen: You find you use your clojure yasnippets a lot? Looking at investing some time polishing up my emacs tools, would like to get the environment very polished for me and some new clojure/script users
14:15	xeqi	dnolen: figuring out which dynamic vars to bind and where the line numbers came from took some source diving
14:16	dnolen	seangrove: I should work on them some more, I mostly like them for the ns stuff
14:16	dnolen	seangrove: pull requests welcome 'o course
14:16	xeqi	but cljs.source-map/encode + decode were useful for debugging that part
14:17	dnolen	xeqi: k, I'll take a look at the patch and see if there's an opportunity to clean things up
14:28	myguidingstar	hi all
14:28	myguidingstar	I want to call this method http://projects.csail.mit.edu/jwi/api/edu/mit/jwi/morph/WordnetStemmer.html#findStems%28java.lang.String,%20edu.mit.jwi.item.POS%29
14:28	myguidingstar	but got this CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to find static field: findStems in class edu.mit.jwi.morph.WordnetStemmer
14:29	llasram	myguidingstar: It's not a static method, so you need to create an instance of this WordnetStemmer class first, then invoke the method of that object
14:30	myguidingstar	omg my silly moment
14:31	myguidingstar	java blow my consciousness away :))
14:31	seangrove	technomancy: running slamhound.el gives me an error: slamhound: Symbol's function definition is void: slime-eval
14:31	seangrove	technomancy: Looking through the issues, but not seeing much about it
14:33	amalloy	seangrove: you're probably trying to run a slime-based version of slamhound, but have nrepl installed instead of slime/swank?
14:33	seangrove	amalloy: I assume so, but kind of surprised slamhound.el would be using slime. Wonder if my package is out of date.
14:35	arohner	oh, slamhound is being maintained again? awesome!
14:36	bitemyapp	seangrove: would you be okay with Datomic as a service if it was the cheap-o free instance?
14:37	technomancy	seangrove: iirc it falls back to slime if you dont have nrepl
14:37	bitemyapp	I doubt DAAS is going to happen with Pro, but Free might fly.
14:38	technomancy	I think there's a patch I need to look at for cider support or something
14:38	seangrove	bitemyapp: As long as the data is backed up and I don't have to think about the system under it, yeah
14:39	seangrove	bitemyapp: I think the licensing makes it pretty difficult, but DAAS would be a great thing for most people
14:39	timsg	bitemyapp, coventry: here's a toy example, using a slightly different strategy: https://www.refheap.com/20466
14:40	bitemyapp	Datomic's free edition license doesn't explain much.
14:41	bitemyapp	seangrove: it's too bad I'd rather offer Simonides-AAS :P
14:44	coventry`	timsg: I would pass the foo symbol in as a parameter to bar. How are you planning to use this?
14:46	coventry`	I've done quite a lot of these kinds of transformations, in the context of trying to make an edebug-style debugger.
14:49	cYmen	Good evening clojurians!
14:49	rasmusto	cYmen: morning
14:49	llasram	~ugt
14:50	clojurebot	ugt is Universal Greeting Time: http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
14:50	cYmen	So my goal for today is to throw together a website using clojure and clojurescript where I would have (back when I was young and needed the money) used php and javascript.
14:50	bitemyapp	cYmen: http://github.com/bitemyapp/neubite/
14:50	rasmusto	llasram: :)
14:50	cYmen	And I'm pretty sure many of you have done that so I would love some recommendations about how to getting set up fast and so on...
14:50	bitemyapp	cYmen: http://www.luminusweb.net/
14:51	bitemyapp	cYmen: http://pragprog.com/book/dswdcloj/web-development-with-clojure
14:51	cYmen	llasram: and don't distract me with your apropos links ;)
14:51	bitemyapp	cYmen: https://github.com/yogthos
14:51	bitemyapp	~clojureweb is http://www.luminusweb.net/ http://pragprog.com/book/dswdcloj/web-development-with-clojure https://github.com/bitemyapp/neubite/
14:51	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
14:51	bitemyapp	~clojureweb
14:51	clojurebot	clojureweb is http://www.luminusweb.net/ http://pragprog.com/book/dswdcloj/web-development-with-clojure https://github.com/bitemyapp/neubite/
14:51	bitemyapp	~botsnack
14:51	clojurebot	Thanks, but I prefer chocolate
14:52	bitemyapp	ingrate.
14:52	timsg	coventry: I agree one should pass the symbol triggering the transformation as a parameter in cases where it should be left up to the user, in this case I would like that symbol to be nailed down and associated with a particular namespace. I'm doing this because I'm defining a looping form that transforms into the usual loop-recur stuff.
14:53	bitemyapp	timsg: http://www.braveclojure.com/writing-macros/
14:53	bitemyapp	~bravemacros is http://www.braveclojure.com/writing-macros/
14:53	clojurebot	In Ordnung
14:53	arrdem	bitemyapp: you don't need the ~ prefix...
14:53	arrdem	~~bravemacros
14:53	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
14:54	arrdem	~bravemacros
14:54	clojurebot	bravemacros is http://www.braveclojure.com/writing-macros/
14:54	arrdem	i r wrong
14:54	llasram	It takes a strong human to admit
14:54	arrdem	~botsmack
14:54	clojurebot	Owww!
14:54	bitemyapp	LOL
14:54	llasram	hah!
14:54	bitemyapp	I didn't know about that.
14:54	bitemyapp	I need to read the source.
14:54	bitemyapp	then I can see SANBOX DENIED again.
14:55	technomancy	I think most of that stuff is learned facts, not hard-coded functionality
14:55	coventry`	timsg: Why not write the looping form as a straight macro? Why wrap every usage of (fe/foo) in (fe/bar)?
14:55	arrdem	bitemyapp: yeah technomancy's right here. you'd have to go digging in the various dbs that backend clojurebot to see a lot of this crud
14:56	arrdem	bitemyapp: also I demand that you supply an appropriate ~doge
14:57	riley526	wow such macro
14:57	bitemyapp	~doge is http://i.imgur.com/7iWccPN.gif
14:57	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
14:57	bitemyapp	arrdem: http://i.imgur.com/LwaMKrb.jpg
14:59	hiredman	llasram: please stop
14:59	bitemyapp	hiredman: porque?
15:00	bitemyapp	ztellman: narrator looks really interesting, why does it remind me of Riemann-as-a-library?
15:01	ztellman	bitemyapp: because it's really lamina.query as a library, and you didn't know that existed
15:01	ztellman	and they have a lot of overlap
15:02	llasram	hiredman: I didn't realize that me fiddling with querying the bot would have effects anyone else could sese
15:02	llasram	see
15:02	ztellman	bitemyapp: but we do use it as a pre-aggregator for riemann in a fair number of places
15:03	llasram	hiredman: Apparently it sets off alarm bells and rains you with nerf darts?
15:03	hiredman	llasram: I'm sorry, it's fine, other things bot realated had me in a bad mood and looking at the log
15:03	bitemyapp	the "..." collection binding really needs to be highlighted a lot more in the Datomic docs.
15:03	cYmen	bitemyapp: So after looking at the links I suppose luminus is a good way to start?
15:04	bitemyapp	cYmen: aye
15:05	llasram	hiredman: np. Sorry it perturbed you. I'll leave the poor bot alone for now :-)
15:06	TimMc	llasram: What were you doing to it?
15:06	llasram	TimMc: Trying to figure out how the frikkin `forget` command works
15:06	TimMc	haha
15:06	TimMc	Yeah, good luck with that.
15:06	amalloy	oh man. i bet you made a mess
15:06	llasram	So it would seem
15:06	amalloy	clojurebot: forget everything llasram has ever said
15:06	clojurebot	Pardon?
15:06	amalloy	if only that worked
15:07	TimMc	You have to surround the verb with \|pipes\| and there's also some other random syntax like <reply> and $who (I think)
15:07	Jarda	,amalloy
15:07	TimMc	God help you if the factoid contains pipes, periods, etc.
15:07	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: amalloy in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
15:07	llasram	Ahhhh
15:07	Jarda	,(amalloy)
15:07	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: amalloy in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
15:07	Jarda	:(
15:07	amalloy	TimMc: yeah, if the fact contains pipes i think you are basically hosed
15:08	llasram	I'll just leave it be for now though, read the source, stand up a local instance, then try again
15:08	amalloy	Jarda: what?
15:08	Jarda	amalloy: I'm trying to find out if one can see the current value of all the incs
15:08	amalloy	$karma amalloy
15:08	lazybot	amalloy has karma 74.
15:09	Jarda	oh ok
15:10	cYmen	wow.. I did get an exception about no X11 variable being set but getting started with lumin... I don't even know the name yet! was so easy I didn't learn a thing.
15:11	cYmen	Alright, on to the tutorial. Brave new world indeed.
15:15	timsg	coventry: it's a loop form; the 'bar is the 'loop equivalent, the 'foo is the 'recur equivalent. 'foo needs to know about 'bar, so it seems to make most sense for 'bar to be responsible for expanding 'foo. At this point it's probably best if I just hack it together and post it, then see if it makes sense. Thanks for the input!
15:27	mdrogalis	Is there a way with nrepl to eval a form and have its result replace the form?
15:29	amalloy	mdrogalis: a C-u prefix in front of an evaluating command usually inserts the results of the command at point. so you could do that and then remove the original form?
15:30	mdrogalis	amalloy: Yeah, that works well enough. Thanks man.
15:40	ShawnMcCool	is there a resource for learning clojure targeted at oop developers?
15:41	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: clojurebook.com is good
15:41	ShawnMcCool	yea, that's what i've started reading
15:42	ShawnMcCool	ok, well thanks
15:42	ShawnMcCool	i still find clojure hard to grasp, but if i keep at it i'll be ok
15:42	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: heres my short summary of clojure for OOP: all the stuff you know about good design with objects is dispersed amoungst a bunch of smaller, simpler primatives but to start with you dont need any of them. learn functions, seqs and maps
15:43	mtp	isn't that all OOP is anyway?
15:46	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: fwiw: parametric polymorphism (ie, passing functions to other functions handwaves) lets you do 90% of what you normally do without resorting to anything like type directed polymorphism
15:46	brehaut	and its a better model for reuse (in the context of pure functions)
15:47	ShawnMcCool	gotcha, step one, look up parametric polymorphism
15:47	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: simple example: the map function
15:48	brehaut	,(map inc [1 2 3])
15:48	clojurebot	(2 3 4)
15:48	brehaut	,(map count ["abc" "def"])
15:48	clojurebot	(3 3)
15:48	brehaut	map is polymorphic on the first argument
15:49	ShawnMcCool	i see
15:49	ShawnMcCool	the ramifications of this are out of reach for me at this moment, but i do understand the basic concept that you're expressing
15:49	brehaut	in OO terms: interface IMappable<A, R> { public R map() }
15:49	scriptor	,(map first [1 2 3] '(4 5 6) (repeat 5))
15:49	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: core$first>
15:50	scriptor	dammit, silly mistake
15:50	cYmen	I'm getting this error http://pastebin.com/tya4y4ik but on line 14 there is just a (defn init what's going on?
15:50	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: for that interface, imagine two implementations: one for a countable sequence, and one for a incrementable sequence
15:51	ShawnMcCool	yea, that makes sense
15:51	ShawnMcCool	it's a different way to describe the relationships between algorithms
15:51	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: so instead of having some types directing the usage, we have a funciton that takes that operation
15:51	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: yes
15:52	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: for the FP view of OOP, consider that objects with no setters
15:52	stuartsierra1	cYmen: looks like a typo, check for extraneous characters
15:52	cYmen	stuartsierra1: I tried but I can't find any and I understand so little of this luminus code that I can barely read anything.
15:53	stuartsierra1	cYmen: Sorry, don't think I can help then.
15:53	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: constructors are super important in that kind of OOP. you can put all your operations safely outside of the class (ie, in static methods) because there is no change, only the construction of new objects.
15:53	cYmen	stuartsierra1: http://pastebin.com/B5p7DmNi
15:53	cYmen	That's what the file looks like if that helps...
15:54	stuartsierra1	cYmen: You have a trailing "o" character on line 30
15:54	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: from there, replace constructors with functions that return maps of keywords to values, and you are doing basic clojure
15:54	cYmen	stuartsierra1: impressive
15:55	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: at that point its a case of getting familiar with the standard library
15:55	stuartsierra1	cYmen: The error message made it clear: an undefined symbol named "o"
15:55	ShawnMcCool	brehaut: that's basically where i'm at now, getting used to the syntax and the standard library
15:55	cYmen	So it tells me the problem is on 14 because that is the beginning of that function?
15:55	ShawnMcCool	i think that mostly the rest will come over time, i am a bit discouraged
15:55	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: awesome. sounds like you are right on track
15:55	ShawnMcCool	but, i find clojure to be fascinating nonetheless
15:56	stuartsierra1	cYmen: line numbers on Clojure error message are imprecise, often due to macros.
15:56	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: no need to be discouraged. may i suggest lookibng at 4clojure.com (and following some people with high scores!) if you arent already?
15:56	ShawnMcCool	i'll cehck it out now
15:56	cYmen	stuartsierra1: That's unfortunate.
15:57	cYmen	stuartsierra1: Thanks for your help!
15:57	stuartsierra1	cYmen: You're welcome.
16:01	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: one other thing: lazy sequences are away of reformulating imperative logic. learning how to think about for and while loops using the seq operations (and creating your own new operations from them) is enormously powerful. learning even one new seq function deeply often dramatically improves your FP
16:01	sshack	Is there a way to find out why lein (or actually heroku) isn't pulling in some of my project dependancies?
16:01	ShawnMcCool	i feel like your information is valuable, but i lack the concepts and vocabulary to make use of it, i'm sorry
16:02	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: thats no problem! it takes a while to pull apart a conceptual model you know well and put it back together along different lines
16:04	brehaut	ShawnMcCool: just keep at it, try some 4clojure puzzles, and maybe build a small project that you are familiar with (might be a blog or some other small scoped project)
16:07	ShawnMcCool	brehaut: yea, i mean. i feel like the difficulties that i'm having are indicative of inevitable conceptual gain. i will definitely check out 4clojure
16:07	dnolen	cemerick: ping
16:09	cemerick	dnolen: hey
16:10	dnolen_	cemerick: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/clj/cljs/analyzer.clj#L1193, I think part of your commit
16:10	cemerick	dnolen_: yeah, probably
16:11	cemerick	problem?
16:11	dnolen_	cemerick: not sure what needs to happen here but see CLJS-640, I fixed the bad instance? cases
16:11	clojurebot	"There is no problem in computer programming which cannot be solved by an added level of indirection." -- Dr Maurice Wilkes
16:11	dnolen_	URI not hierarchical exception
16:12	dnolen_	cemerick: more than happy to fix it up, but just not sure what that line should be instead
16:12	cemerick	shit, I botched that one :-(
16:14	cemerick	dnolen_: I'm perhaps as much in the dark as you are. forms-seq was theoretically supposed to accept URLs (which apparently are "non-hierarchical"?), so that was my best guess at producing a "filename" for such inputs.
16:14	cemerick	s/are/may be/
16:15	dnolen_	cemerick: probably makes sense to just use getPath here?
16:16	cemerick	dnolen_: yeah, that'd work too. I honestly don't know what the exception is supposed to indicate
16:17	stuartsierra1	You need more hierarchy in your URLs. I suggest switching to the feURLdal system.
16:17	cemerick	ok, so non-hierarchical URIs are ones that don't contain slash characters; not sure how such a thing would be an input to forms-seq in the first place...
16:17	dnolen_	stuartsierra1: ha
16:18	cemerick	stuartsierra1's started drinking early, it seems
16:18	dnolen_	cemerick: JARs no?
16:18	stuartsierra1	Actually just short on sleep.
16:18	cemerick	dnolen_: nah, need slashes to name a resource
16:19	cemerick	dnolen_: maybe just (str url), and be done with it?
16:19	dnolen_	cemerick: k
16:20	dnolen_	cemerick: out of curiosity where are urls being given to forms-seq?
16:22	cemerick	dnolen_: analyze-file feeds it (dubiously-constructed) URLs, there may be more
16:24	dnolen_	cemerick: yes the URL support in analyze-file predates me if I remember correctly
16:26	cemerick	dnolen_: feels like it should be analyze-resource, especially if you want to drive towards using the classpath as the sole font of cljs sources
16:31	brehaut	OS X Mavericks users: which JDK did you install? Oracle or Open?
16:32	bitemyapp	brehaut: Oracle, because I don't enjoy pain.
16:33	bitemyapp	brehaut: if this makes me a cowardly supplicant to Larry's throne, so be it.
16:33	brehaut	bitemyapp: that is exactly my dliema; id rather open but always seems like a world of hurt
16:33	bitemyapp	brehaut: I offset my evil by releasing open sores libraries.
16:33	TimMc	Haven't had any trouble with OpenJDK over here.
16:33	TimMc	Is this a Mac thing?
16:34	brehaut	TimMc: yeah
16:34	bitemyapp	TimMc: yeah
16:34	rasmusto	bitemyapp: another brick in the wall
16:35	dnolen_	cemerick: yeah agreed, will that yak for another day - just go call str on the url
16:35	arrdem	bitemyapp: you can keep your sores, source is totally welcome tho.
16:42	gfredericks	I am surprised that definline is macro-style
16:43	gfredericks	is there a different way to do a defn that gets inlined without the manual work of the :inline metadata?
16:43	hiredman	macro style is the easiest way to do templating
16:43	hiredman	,(doc definline)
16:43	clojurebot	"([name & decl]); Experimental - like defmacro, except defines a named function whose body is the expansion, calls to which may be expanded inline as if it were a macro. Cannot be used with variadic (&) args."
16:43	gfredericks	sure; but you _could_ do it function-style, no?
16:44	gfredericks	for the sake of being more of a drop-in thing
16:44	hiredman	it would be tricky
16:44	gfredericks	just transform into a let during inlining?
16:44	hiredman	gfredericks: you would need to codewalk the body doing gensyms, looking for free variables, etc
16:45	gfredericks	oooh
16:45	gfredericks	of course
16:45	gfredericks	thanks for talking me down :)
16:45	hiredman	oh, by all means, make it happen :)
16:45	bitemyapp	rkneufeld is soliciting comments for this possible entry into the cookbook: https://github.com/clojure-cookbook/clojure-cookbook/blob/master/kitchen-sink/tracing/tracing.asciidoc
16:45	bitemyapp	anybody who's used tools.trace should take a look.
16:46	hiredman	I would recommend :static instead of :inline, because if the jvm will inline it for you it will be easier, but :static seesm to be disabled in to the compiler these days
16:46	cYmen	great...broke something again and now luminus is neither sending any pages back nor reporting any errors
16:46	gfredericks	hiredman: I was reading about that just yesterday and it sounded like it was for primitive return types?
16:47	gfredericks	but this was stack overflow so it could be arbitrarily wrong
16:47	hiredman	gfredericks: :static?
16:47	gfredericks	yeah
16:47	gfredericks	(and also that it's disabled now)
16:47	gfredericks	(because the compiler is "smarter")
16:48	hiredman	well, rich seems to keep his design thoughts close to the chest, but I believe :static was sort of an initial attack on performance problems, now better served by non-dynamic vars by default
16:49	gfredericks	ah
16:49	gfredericks	any knowledge how serious of a hit the existing var check is? (vs inlining)
16:49	hiredman	:static removed the linkage through the var (because the binding check was too expensive)
16:49	gfredericks	not the binding check but just the "has this var been redeffed?" check
16:49	hiredman	but not using vars means you have sort of undesirable behaviour when you redef
16:50	gfredericks	for sure
16:50	gfredericks	that's why I make sure to write my functions correctly to begin with
16:50	hiredman	gfredericks: really, someone should write an optimizing compiler
16:51	gfredericks	hiredman: like for non-interactive development?
16:51	hiredman	so if you don't want the dynamic overhead, boom, you don't have it
16:51	gfredericks	or "for production" rather
16:52	gfredericks	that might be tricksy. alter-var-root is a big part of a lot of macros
16:52	hiredman	gfredericks: for people who keep opening issues in clojure's jira about statically linking functions without providing a plan or discussion of how it effects the semantics of the language
16:52	hiredman	gfredericks: yep
16:52	gfredericks	I haven't seen such issues; I guess I haven't been browsing jira lately
16:53	bitemyapp	gfredericks: I use a fair amount of alter-var-root for things like error-handling.
16:53	bitemyapp	gfredericks: AVR -> AOP
16:53	hiredman	oh, there may just be one, but the guy opened 4-5 related issues as well, mostly "Gosh, I wish clojure did X, please make it do exactly what I want"
16:53	gfredericks	bitemyapp: yeah I like it for that; +1 robert.hooke
16:54	hiredman	alternatively, have clojure use invokedynamic switchpoints for vars
16:54	gfredericks	who was it the other day talking about using AVR for 3rd-party docstrings?
16:54	cYmen	Any advice on how to debug luminus?
16:54	gfredericks	I wonder how hard it is to export clojuredocs into a jar that does exactly that
16:54	cYmen	And by advice mean... I know nothing and haven't tried the most obvious thing
16:55	bitemyapp	gfredericks: robert.hooke and: https://github.com/MichaelDrogalis/dire
16:55	gfredericks	hiredman: what's up with invokedynamic? does it just compile down to a more efficient check in the jit or something?
16:56	bitemyapp	the reasons we technically don't need invokedynamic are a little strange given we end up just falling back to clojure.lang.RT
16:56	gfredericks	bitemyapp: I've wanted something like this for logging
16:56	gfredericks	bitemyapp: I didn't know about dire; thx
16:57	hiredman	gfredericks: that is the idea, you use the switchpoint to communicate to the jit the semantics you want, and it will generate fast code that matches those semantics, I dunno how well it does at that though
16:57	hiredman	"you can inline this all you want, as long as you guard the inlines with this"
16:59	gfredericks	huh; I didn't realize that needed to be so...hookable?
17:00	hiredman	ianahe (I Am Not A Hotspot Engineer)
17:01	dnolen_	cemerick: hmm https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/issues/236#issuecomment-27158955
17:01	gfredericks	man I wanna be a hotspot engineer
17:01	tbaldridge	gfredericks: graal allows some stuff like that (hooking into the JIT) but I wouldn't consider it mature yet.
17:03	cYmen	yay, got it working...had made a mistake with opening and closing the content block
17:04	cYmen	the errorhandling was pretty opaque, though
17:05	cemerick	dnolen_: That whole issue is as clear as mud. Theoretically, it's a lein bug, if anything.
17:05	dnolen_	cemerick: k
17:05	cemerick	The OP seeing it go away after a JVM update is sorta nonsensical, tho.
17:12	cemerick	dnolen_: FYI, going to cut a 1.0.0-alpha1 to eliminate stem the "auto is broken" issue filings. I don't want to call 1.0.0 final until 643 is done.
17:13	rasmusto	hm, is there a way to get memoization to play nicely with functions that take a map as an argument?
17:13	Apage43	does it not?
17:14	bitemyapp	rasmusto: I'm pretty sure that should just work given that map equality just works...
17:14	rasmusto	like a context-aware memoize that'll check whether the map is used itself, or whether just a few of its keys are
17:14	peat	Good afternoon (caveat timezone). Is there a preferred AWS project in the community these days? Google gives me ... many options. :)
17:14	xuser	bitemyapp: so your rdb client made it to HN front page :)
17:15	bitemyapp	xuser: mine and cbp's*
17:15	rasmusto	I think it works if the map is 100% identical, but I have some cases where I'll pass a similar map into a fn that only uses keys :a and :b, but the map has a different :c
17:15	Apage43	ah
17:15	bitemyapp	rasmusto: write a select-keys memoizing wrapper.
17:16	rasmusto	bitemyapp: okay, sounds good. I need to drop the usage of :as in a few places, then I can do that
17:16	xuser	bitemyapp: that was fast, how long have you being working on it?
17:16	Apage43	(defn memoize-keys [f keys] (fn [m] (let [memoed (memoize f)] (memoed (select-keys m keys))))
17:16	Apage43	something like that
17:16	bitemyapp	xuser: I started on it in like...May, cbp picked it up and did most of the work. I hammered out the thread-safe async connections stuff in a couple hours over the weekend.
17:16	Apage43	er
17:17	bitemyapp	xuser: I abandoned it after getting burnt out by protobufs.
17:17	Apage43	except move the let outside
17:17	rasmusto	Apage43: I'll take a look, thanks :)
17:17	bitemyapp	xuser: cbp designed the actual API and did all the work.
17:18	dnolen_	cemerick: sounds good to me
17:18	seangrove	cemerick: Very cool
17:19	bitemyapp	70% odds I'm going to be mad at myself for not using core.async within a week.
17:19	xuser	bitemyapp: cool, kudos to cbp
17:20	xuser	bitemyapp: why did you burnout? to much things at once?
17:20	bitemyapp	xuser: hail C(a)esar? :P
17:20	bitemyapp	xuser: getting their janky-ass protobuf bullshit working was sanity-draining.
17:20	bitemyapp	it was micro-burnout, not serious multi-month
17:20	cYmen	which rdp client?
17:20	bitemyapp	I was pretty burnt out at the time though, I didn't really recover until I started at this awesome company.
17:21	bitemyapp	cYmen: rethinkdb, not remote desktop.
17:21	bitemyapp	rdb, not rdp.
17:21	seangrove	bitemyapp: If you had used core.async, then anyone requiring your lib would have pulled it in, it would have been a headache
17:21	cYmen	oh google auto corrected me
17:21	bitemyapp	seangrove: I didn't use core.async specifically to reduce dependencies, but I'm not sure I like the error-handling semantics of the agent.
17:22	bitemyapp	in fact, the only real dependency is org.flatland/protobuf, the rest is fluff other than the lein-protobuf plugin.
17:23	cYmen	hm..apparently I have already read the entire luminus documentation
17:24	cYmen	If only I had the faintest idea how stuff works now...
17:25	brehaut	cYmen: do you know how ring works?
17:25	cYmen	no
17:25	brehaut	cYmen: start there
17:25	rasmusto	bitemyapp, Apage43: thanks for the tips, this should do the trick
17:26	Apage43	okay, if you used mine make sure you actually moved the let outside the fn
17:26	brehaut	(cYmen: because everything else sits on top of it)
17:26	Apage43	it was wrong as I'd originally typed it and wouldn't memoize anything :)
17:26	rasmusto	Apage43: yep :) I'm using a different memoize too
17:26	Apage43	ah
17:26	Apage43	cool
17:26	cYmen	brehaut: hm...starting at the bottom does not work very well for me
17:27	blr	cYmen: it makes more sense in clj doing this than it would learning wsgi or rack first
17:27	rasmusto	Apage43: https://www.refheap.com/20471
17:27	brehaut	blr: hi
17:27	blr	ring is not complex, so it's really worth reading about it
17:27	blr	hey brehaut :)
17:27	cYmen	alright
17:27	brehaut	blr: hows the south
17:27	Apage43	looks good
17:27	blr	pretty uneventful :)
17:28	brehaut	blr: more time for banjo then
17:28	blr	we have Neutral Milk Hotel coming down here soon which is moderately exciting
17:28	rasmusto	Apage43: I have some pretty inefficient code, I'd notice if it weren't actually memoizing something :P
17:28	blr	well, there's that hah
17:28	brehaut	blr: oh yeah nice! television must be soon too, though im not going :(
17:28	cYmen	hm...any advice on where to start? should I read the SPEC file?
17:29	blr	ah, would be very cool to see them
17:29	cYmen	ah this looks good https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/wiki
17:30	brehaut	cYmen: if you dont mind me tooting my own horn http://brehaut.net/blog/2011/ring_introduction is old but still largely relevant
17:30	Raynes	Never been much of a NMH fan.
17:30	Raynes	The guy's voice pierces my brain like bullets in slow motion.
17:31	rasmusto	Raynes: Neural Milk Hotel
17:31	blr	Raynes: I live just slightly north of antarctica, so just about any band visiting is exciting (although I do love NMH)
17:32	dnolen_	this seems like a useful patch for someone to tidy up - http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-402
17:34	bitemyapp	Raynes: Neuter Milk Hotel more like, amirite?
17:34	Raynes	bitemyapp: Hurr
17:34	rasmusto	no hurr for my version? :(
17:35	Raynes	I owed bitemyapp some hurrs.
17:35	dnolen_	CLJS-402 coupled with http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-659 with remove a large source of confusion.
17:35	rasmusto	what's the hurr:inc exchange rate?
17:36	bitemyapp	rasmusto: inc me and find out.
17:36	rasmusto	(inc bitemyapp)
17:36	lazybot	⇒ 10
17:36	rasmusto	only 2?
17:36	Raynes	$karma rasmusto
17:36	lazybot	rasmusto has karma 1.
17:37	bitemyapp	(inc rasmusto)
17:37	lazybot	⇒ 2
17:49	hyPiRion	(identity bitemyapp)
17:49	lazybot	bitemyapp has karma 10.
17:49	rishisadhir	I want to use reduce to count the number of letters in a setentence. How can I do this?
17:49	brehaut	trivially
17:49	rishisadhir	(reduce (fn [c] (if (re-matches #"[a-zA-Z]" c) (partial + 1) (partial + 0))) 0 text)
17:50	rishisadhir	^ doesnt work
17:50	bitemyapp	lol wut.
17:50	justin_smith	rishisadhir: why regex match on a character?
17:50	brehaut	,(apply + (map #{\a \b \c \d} "hello world"))
17:50	clojurebot	#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
17:50	justin_smith	also reduce needs an fn of two args
17:51	justin_smith	also chars are not implicitly ints, they need to be explicitly cast
17:51	justin_smith	solve those three problems, and you are golden
17:51	rishisadhir	all very good points justin, thank you
17:51	brehaut	oh what am i doing
17:52	bitemyapp	,(count (filter #{\a \b \c \d} "hello world"))
17:52	clojurebot	1
17:53	brehaut	,(count (keep #{\a \b \c \d} "a b c"))
17:53	clojurebot	3
17:53	brehaut	hah stupid internet lag. well snipped
17:54	algernon	19
17:54	muhoo	so keep is (complement filter) ?
17:54	rasmusto	muhoo: remove is
17:55	brehaut	its (comp (partial filter (comp not nil?)) map)
17:55	bitemyapp	,(doc keep)
17:55	clojurebot	"([f coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of the non-nil results of (f item). Note, this means false return values will be included. f must be free of side-effects."
17:55	brehaut	or if you arent a muppet like me (comp (partial remove nil?) map)
17:56	technomancy	crazy haskellers
17:57	brehaut	sorry
17:58	bitemyapp	technomancy: prompt?
17:58	seangrove	brehaut: Wouldn't (comp not nil?) be better as identity?
17:58	technomancy	bitemyapp: point-free-ness
17:58	muhoo	yeah, i usually use identity for preds to check for not-nill
17:58	brehaut	seangrove: also true
17:59	brehaut	clearly nobody should listen to a thing i say as im full of wackiness today
18:00	bitemyapp	make a sucky product and you get to have functions named in your honor: (defn retractions-for-old-children-because-#{VENDOR_WHO_SHALL_GO_UNNAMED}-sucks-fruit-wax [id]
18:00	bitemyapp	technomancy: I love point free.
18:00	technomancy	bitemyapp: I do too, but it's my dirty little secret
18:00	bitemyapp	technomancy: too bad it's pointless...
18:01	brehaut	technomancy: lol!
18:01	muhoo	~guards
18:01	clojurebot	SEIZE HIM!
18:01	bitemyapp	technomancy: do ho ho ho hohttp://i.imgur.com/mZ9fRkC.png
18:01	bitemyapp	er, http://i.imgur.com/mZ9fRkC.png
18:52	Phil_D	Hi, everyone. Having some trouble grasping Go blocks in core.async. Wondering why I get the result here when I click the button multiple times: http://cljsfiddle.net/fiddle/phildiaz.async-help
18:53	lynaghk	seangrove: I don't think core.async will mix very well with Angular, which already has its own mechanism for propagating state changes
18:54	lynaghk	seangrove: I've sketched some things out about how to take the good parts of angular (i.e., directives) and match them up with value-oriented programming and core.async, but I haven't come up with anything concrete yet
18:54	lynaghk	seangrove: for the work that we do, it's very useful that Angular has a vibrant community and there are lots of plugins, &c.
18:56	bitemyapp	seangrove: noprompt has already started working on a micro-library for two-way binding using core.async
18:56	bitemyapp	seangrove: your best bets are to either use the aforementioned micro-library (beltway) or to use vanilla Angular + Clang.
18:57	bitemyapp	seangrove: but yeah, lynaghk is of course quite right, mixing in core.async isn't going to happen. Angular is built on dirty-checking.
18:57	Phil_D	bitemyapp, seangrove: Don't forget about Purnam: https://github.com/zcaudate/purnam -- Pretty well maintained CLJS/Angular library.
18:58	bitemyapp	Phil_D: I forgot about purnam, thanks for mentioning it. How does it compare with Clang?
18:59	Phil_D	bitemyapp: It's a lot more in line with the 'Angular workflow' if you will. It includes a full test suite, and it doesn't stray far from the writing style of plain JS.
19:00	Apage43	i know there's an existing thing that provides a hella-parallel (reducer capable) version of line-seq
19:00	Apage43	and now I'm after it
19:00	lynaghk	Apage43: https://github.com/thebusby/iota
19:00	Apage43	yep
19:01	Apage43	thanks
19:01	bitemyapp	lynaghk: coooool, thanks!
19:09	Phil_D	Anyone have an idea as to why my cljs/async example is working the way it is? I'm trying to use a loop inside of a go block (and blocking with click events) to create a simple incrementing function.
19:41	seangrove	Has anyone combined the fast auto mode of cljsbuild with a test runner for tdd cljs dev?
19:42	seangrove	And clojurescript.test, of course
19:43	blr	seangrove: do you use contracts much in testing your cljs?
19:44	seangrove	blr: not at all. Could be a good idea though.
19:44	blr	yeah, seems like a potentially good thing
20:19	jtoy	how is it possible to get a null exception here?
20:19	jtoy	,(:foo {} 0)
20:19	clojurebot	0
20:19	jtoy	,(:foo nil 0)
20:19	clojurebot	0
20:19	jtoy	https://www.refheap.com/20475
20:20	jtoy	,(:foo [] 0)
20:20	clojurebot	0
20:20	Bronsa	,(+ (:foo {:foo nil} 0) (:foo {} 0))
20:20	clojurebot	#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
20:21	jtoy	Bronsa: thanks
20:21	jtoy	what would be a safer way to write that?
20:21	jtoy	,(+ ( {:foo nil} :foo 0) (:foo {} 0))
20:21	clojurebot	#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
20:22	Bronsa	jtoy: you just need to make sure you're getting a number from the map lookup
20:23	jtoy	Bronsa: I just did this for now:
20:23	jtoy	(+ (or (:foo {:foo nil} 0) 0) (:foo {} 0))
20:23	jtoy	,(+ (or (:foo {:foo nil} 0) 0) (:foo {} 0))
20:23	clojurebot	0
20:24	Bronsa	jtoy: you can replace that with just (or (:foo {}) 0), no need for a not-found key since it's going to be ok with the or anyway
20:26	jtoy	Bronsa: thanks
20:27	Bronsa	jtoy: keep in mind that this can still happen ##(+ (:foo {:foo :foo}))
20:27	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: Cannot cast clojure.lang.Keyword to java.lang.Number
20:28	Bronsa	if you want to be 100% safe, just (assert (every? number? (vals your-map)))
20:34	hiredman	,(doc fnil)
20:34	clojurebot	"([f x] [f x y] [f x y z]); Takes a function f, and returns a function that calls f, replacing a nil first argument to f with the supplied value x. Higher arity versions can replace arguments in the second and third positions (y, z). Note that the function f can take any number of arguments, not just the one(s) being nil-patched."
20:36	beppu	,((fnil + 0 0) (:count match) (:mention_count match))
20:36	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: match in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
20:38	beppu	,((fnil + 0 0) (:count {:count nil}) (:mention_count {:count nil}))
20:38	clojurebot	0
20:40	jtoy	Bronsa: i dont think I will need that level
20:44	guns	I'd like to hack on clojure.lang.Compiler in conjunction with a leiningen project; is this as simple as setting :source-paths and :java-source-paths to my clojure checkout?
20:44	hiredman	guns: that is going to be tricky
20:45	guns	hiredman: so just compile and reload?
20:45	guns	I guess I could just import the relevant bits to the clojure repo
20:46	hiredman	guns: that may be easiest
20:46	guns	okay, thanks for saving me the headache
20:47	hiredman	well, actually, I guess it has been a while since the last time I tried that
20:47	hiredman	(3 years)
20:47	guns	I suspect not much has changed in this regard
20:48	hiredman	well, if I recall at the time the issue I had was with lein getting confused about where it was pulling clojure from on the classpath, that may have all been sorted out
20:49	dnolen_	boom, runtime obtainable CLJS compiler version - compiler fixed to recompile if compiler version doesn't match tagged JS file on disk http://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/compare/89aef54a9d...73810450cd
20:49	dnolen_	should eliminate a lot of unfortunate confusion
20:50	jtoy	is there a method to return the first match from a list but not process all of them, in ruby there is detect which is like (first (filter ...))
20:50	dnolen_	jtoy: some
20:55	jtoy	dnolen_: thanks
20:57	blr	dnolen_: just out of interest, are you still mulling over a blog post on the virtues of frp over clientside mvc? :)
20:59	blr	seem to recall some mutterings about that at some point
21:07	dnolen_	blr: haven't put much more thought into, busy with CLJS compiler enhancements
21:07	blr	well fair enough :)
21:07	dnolen_	xeqi: CLJS-658 needs to use tools.reader, otherwise looks good
21:09	xeqi	dnolen_: ah, right. Also realized I sent it with some absolute references to cljs.sourcemaps/encode, would you prefer that to be :require'd and used by an alias?
21:09	dnolen_	xeqi: preferred yes
21:13	bbloom	dnolen: is there a ticket for the catch :default thing? i've got an itch to write any code that isn't js/rb right now, so i might hack that one out fast
21:13	dnolen_	bbloom: there's not a ticket yet
21:13	dnolen_	?
21:13	dnolen_	yeah pretty sure there isn't
21:16	l1x	hey
21:29	jcromartie	let's talk about parsers…
21:31	bbloom	yes. let's
21:32	bbloom	i hate ad-hoc parsers
21:32	bbloom	nightmares.
21:32	jcromartie	:P
21:32	jcromartie	what's an ad-hoc parser?
21:32	jcromartie	(as opposed to what)
21:33	bbloom	https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/clj/cljs/analyzer.clj#L387-L413
21:33	bbloom	blargh.
21:34	jcromartie	yikes
21:41	akhudek	hmm, getting an out of heap space error compiling clojurescirpt
21:41	akhudek	with cljsbuild
21:41	akhudek	but only apparently in my environment
21:41	dnolen_	akhudek: other people have reported this - seems related to source maps
21:42	dnolen_	akhudek: but I haven't anything remote resembling a detailed report, out of heap error seems ridiculous given the size of the source map
21:43	dnolen_	"haven't seen anything remotely a report"
21:43	akhudek	dnolen_: think we're still pre-source map
21:43	akhudek	1859
21:43	dnolen_	akhudek: strack trace is useful
21:44	dnolen_	akhudek: two other times I've seen it - very deeply nested list comprehensions and core.match before I fixed a bug.
21:45	`cbp	bitemyapp: sick pr :-) we got a lot of stars
21:46	akhudek	dnolen_: https://www.refheap.com/d1ecf744319b327d1df8aaebc
21:46	akhudek	dnolen_: seems to be failing on random files each time I try
21:47	akhudek	dnolen_: e.g. https://www.refheap.com/768928063454286813aff58c3
21:49	dnolen_	akhudek: did you try increasing the JVM heap size, are you monitoring the process to see that it actually grows large?
21:50	dnolen_	akhudek: also would be useful to see your project.clj
21:54	dnolen_	akhudek: that last exception also looks like you've trigger the jar walking that finds all JS files in a jar :P
21:54	bitemyapp	`cbp: thanks, we did indeed get quite a few :)
21:55	akhudek	dnolen_: visualvm seems to suggest it's using less than 14mb in total, trying again since that doesn't seem right
21:56	dnolen_	akhudek: and does visualvm show you what options the JVM was started w/ ?
21:57	akhudek	dnolen_: it does, but it doesn't specify a memory limit so it must use the defaults
21:58	dnolen_	akhudek: so try :jvm-opts ^:replace ["-Xmx512m" "-server"] in your project.clj
21:58	dnolen_	akhudek: note ^:replace
21:59	akurilin2	So, I'm not very familiar with this whole area of the language, could use a pointer. What output stream do I use if I want to make a file downloadable from a Ring application?
22:00	brehaut	akurilin: a file file or something that will become a file for the user?
22:00	akurilin2	brehaut, in my case I'm just generating a pdf on the fly based on a GET
22:01	akurilin2	brehaut, and I want to return that blob right away and avoid storing it anywhere
22:01	dnolen_	xeqi: you're still using the line numbering push back reader from Clojure, tools.reader has a better version of that
22:01	dnolen_	xeqi: checkout form-seq in cljs/analyzer.clj
22:02	dnolen_	er forms-seq
22:02	brehaut	akurilin2: i'll have a quick spelunk
22:04	akurilin2	I think Ring lets you return a BufferedSomethingStream in the response and then it will magically convert that to the right thing
22:04	brehaut	akurilin2: yeah, i think it might be any input stream
22:04	akurilin2	however I'm not quite sure how to deal with my output stream situation. As in, I pass an output stream into the pdf generator function, then what?
22:04	brehaut	yeah, any inputstream, so bufferedinputstream is probably the one to use
22:04	akhudek	dnolen_: that doesn't seem to apply to the lein process itself
22:05	akhudek	dnolen_: heap is still at 48mb and the child process lein spawns for cljsbuild does bust that limit
22:05	brehaut	akurilin2: ugh. java streams always confuse me
22:06	akhudek	dnolen_: oh wait that did fix it, thanks
22:07	brehaut	akurilin2: sorry i cant help any more
22:07	akurilin2	brehaut, heh yeah. All I want is to dump the thing to a byte array and dump the byte array back out to the caller
22:07	akurilin2	brehaut, no worries, that helped a bit :)
22:08	brehaut	akurilin2: you could do perhaps (ByteArrayInputStream.(.toByteArray out-stream)) ;; from http://data-sorcery.org/2009/11/29/incanter-webapp/
22:08	brehaut	but it should be possible to do it lazily
22:08	akurilin2	brehaut, as in, the data would be generated in parallel to Ring spitting the bytes out, right?
22:09	brehaut	akurilin2: yeah; rather than generating it all to a honking large array
22:09	brehaut	and then spitting it out
22:09	xeqi	dnolen: just to confirm, you're refering to using readers/indexing-push-back-reader rather than LineNumberingPushbackReader. ?
22:10	amalloy	you can use a pair of PipedInputStream/PipedOutputStream, spin off a thread to write to the output, and give the input to ring
22:10	amalloy	that's blocking/lazy
22:10	amalloy	i have an example in https://github.com/amalloy/ring-gzip-middleware/blob/master/src/ring/middleware/gzip.clj#L38, but it's a little messy - i think there's another one in ring or compojure somewhere
22:10	akurilin2	amalloy, interesting! Man how many types of stream are there out there :\|
22:11	seangrove	What would the equivalent of javascript's: value &= 0x80, value \|= 0x80, in clojure and clojurescript?
22:11	amalloy	akurilin2: unbounded
22:11	brehaut	akurilin2: there are two types of stream per direction for every type in java
22:12	akurilin2	Java people are at a serious advantage here when looking at this stuff :)
22:13	akurilin2	amalloy, why would it deadlock? Not seeing it right away.
22:16	akhudek	hmm, so I haven't solved this
22:17	akhudek	lein is still getting only 48mb of heap
22:18	enzoaquino	anyone happen to be using lobos (db migration library) with heroku?
22:19	enzoaquino	Having an issue where lein ring server runs the migrations fine. But when it's compiled first, then run via the lein trampoline ring server, it doesn't find any migrations.
22:22	sritchie	seangrove: hey! I think I fixed the AOT thing
22:23	seangrove	sritchie: Oh? What was it?
22:23	sritchie	I had had "^{:skip-aot true}" in my :main method, for ring
22:23	sritchie	BUT then I was calling :aot :all
22:24	sritchie	so I think that was getting excluded, thereby compiling the clojure.tools.reader classes at different times
22:24	sritchie	that used to be in the noir docs,
22:24	sritchie	so my guess is you may have the same issue
22:24	ddellacosta	enzoaquino: that is not to do with heroku, it is a problem with lobos: https://github.com/budu/lobos/issues/51
22:25	ddellacosta	enzoaquino: I would steer you away from using it, honestly--I've found it to be a frustrating lib to use on a number of levels. I'd suggest instead checking out ragtime: https://github.com/weavejester/ragtime
22:25	sritchie	seangrove: how's that guess?
22:25	enzoaquino	ddellacosta: thanks! I kind of ended up choosing it because it was in the luminusweb documentation. I'll take a look at ragtime.
22:26	akhudek	aha, figured it out
22:26	seangrove	sritchie: interesting! Let me check...
22:26	akhudek	lein doesn't set a default -Xmx flag
22:26	akhudek	and if you happen to have not much memory free
22:26	akhudek	then java will allocate you absurdly small heap space
22:27	akhudek	(even though you have plenty of swap space left!!)
22:31	akhudek	oh foul, cljsbuild doesn't honour LEIN_JVM_OPTS
22:35	dnolen	akhudek: this seems like a lein bug, technomancy? https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/issues/261
22:35	dnolen	or a bug between lein and plugins
22:35	bitemyapp	dnolen: maybe when Leiningen spoke the language of the system - it stuttered?
22:36	akurilin2	amalloy, btw looks like there might be something in Ring already to take care of what we were talking about: https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/blob/master/ring-core/src/ring/util/io.clj#L11
22:36	akurilin2	might be misreading it though.
22:37	amalloy	yep. i did say there's one in either ring or compojure; that's it
22:39	bbloom	dnolen: i got mega side tracked, but i think i have a decent patch
22:39	akurilin2	amalloy, got you, perfect!
22:39	akurilin2	thx
22:39	dnolen	bbloom: cool
22:39	akhudek	dnolen: yep, that's the problem, thanks! Setting JVM_OPTS works as a work around I think.
22:40	bbloom	adds more code than i'd like, but i can't think of any shorter way to do it w/o losing a lot of clarity
22:44	bbloom	dnolen: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-661
22:44	bbloom	dnolen: i basically built a little regex state machine
22:45	bbloom	since the parse logic was out of control & overly permissive
22:46	bbloom	so this will also cause "Invalid try form" to show up in several cases where other less sensible errors would happen
22:47	dnolen	bbloom: nice, thanks!
22:51	dnolen	akhudek: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1364
22:55	abaranosky	amalloy: are you around? we're trying to get lein-protobuf working for some work stuff, but when I run `lein protobuf`, I see tons of Java compilation errors
22:57	amalloy	abaranosky: i know ninjudd made some changes to lein protobuf recently, because the old version doesn't work on latest OSX
22:57	amalloy	but lein protobuf is not something i know much about, myself
22:58	akurilin2	Ah, just discovered that compojure by default merges route params into the params map. That's pretty darn helpful.
22:58	abaranosky	amalloy: hmmm... I' haven't upgraded just yet to the new OSX
22:59	abaranosky	amalloy: I can just keep digging.. I'm just havign a hard time differentiating between things I'm doing dumb, and whether there might be something wrong in the library
23:00	amalloy	abaranosky: well, you could gist some error messages and i can take a look
23:01	bitemyapp	abaranosky: we used lein-protobuf in Revise, could you see if it breaks for you?
23:01	bitemyapp	abaranosky: lein-protobuf worked fine for me on Mavericks and I don't think cbp is using mavericks.
23:01	bitemyapp	abaranosky: if you clone Revise and run the tests, that might provide more information.
23:06	abaranosky	bitemyapp: I'll try that... let's see
23:07	abaranosky	bitemyapp: at the minimum I'll be able to compare how Revise sets things up
23:09	abaranosky	bitemyapp: looks like yours compiled excellently
23:09	abaranosky	let me compare jars versions
23:15	abaranosky	bitemyapp, amalloy: I just removed some dependencies from my project file, and reran lein protobuf... it looks to have worked
23:15	abaranosky	stinkin transitive dependencies!
23:17	bitemyapp	abaranosky: use lein-pedantic next time maybe?
23:18	abaranosky	bitemyapp: the sick thing, is that I just uncommented them one by one, and now it is working with none commented out!
23:19	abaranosky	there must've been some kind of compile artifact left in some out of whack state
23:19	bitemyapp	whistles
23:19	bitemyapp	abaranosky: did you try lein clean?
23:19	abaranosky	whistles too
23:20	abaranosky	yeah, lein clean... dunno, don't care right now, as long as it stays working... I've been switching through different versions of the plugins... probably when I switched to the jars used in Revise, then I cleaned after and it started working
23:21	bitemyapp	abaranosky: well I'll chalk it up as having needed a lein clean or different version. T'was just curious.
23:21	abaranosky	yep, and I'd be curious normally too, but in a bit of a rush at the moment :)
23:21	bitemyapp	abaranosky: amusingly, my other primary contribution to Revise other than connection management was getting fucking protobufs working.
23:26	abaranosky	bitemyapp: working on an initial stubbed out version of a new identity service
23:27	abaranosky	just a service to keep track of users across our different web services
23:29	`cbp	bitemyapp, abaranosky I do use mavericks but i did not use it to run lein protobuf
23:29	`cbp	As a side note I never did manage to get the damn thing to run on windows
23:30	`cbp	I even modified it to override the script but compiling C/C++ things on windows is a nightmare
23:30	abaranosky	`cbp: friggin windows
23:31	`cbp	abaranosky: are you on windows?
23:31	abaranosky	is the pope a satan worshipper?
23:31	`cbp	oh nvm
23:31	abaranosky	:D
23:35	muhoo	bitemyapp: fyi lein pedantic is depreciated. now it's :pedantic? true in project map
23:36	sritchie	seangrove: any luck?
23:37	seangrove	sritchie: Sorry, was running a grep. Doesn't look like I have :skip-aot anywhere in the code base :P
23:37	sritchie	ugh
23:37	sritchie	not in project.clj, that is
23:38	seangrove	Yeah, grepped across all of our clojure projects
23:38	bitemyapp	muhoo: oh, thanks!
23:38	sritchie	bummer
23:38	seangrove	sritchie: Thank you though, no worries :)