#clojure – 2013-10-22

2013-10-22

00:53	jared314	binding gives me a warning about not dynamic
00:54	technomancy	jared314: you can bind ns
00:54	amalloy	jared314: (eval `(do (in-ns ~'whatever.core) ~@forms))
00:55	jared314	this is the code: https://www.refheap.com/20060
00:55	jared314	perhaps it is the my repl instance
00:58	jared314	nm it was my repl instance
01:21	jared314	does the reader literal tag only apply to the next valid form?
01:25	justdit	hi guys! I'm doing tests for my app which uses asynchronous call from Langohr. And I have a problem: lein exits before that asyn call finishes.
01:25	justdit	Is there a way to solve this problem?
01:29	coventry	gfredericks: That trick of bashing LispReader/macros is awesome!
01:29	amalloy	gfredericks: what have you done?
01:30	coventry	I will only use this power for good. :-)
01:34	jared314	coventry: what was this?
01:35	bitemyapp	seangrove: http://nathanic.org/posts/2013/typed-clojure-tour/
01:36	seangrove	Oh, very nice!
01:36	seangrove	I'll check this out sometime this week or weekend, need to add it to my core.async test
01:36	coventry	jared314: gfredericks's marginalia link demonstrates a way of implementing reader macros by fiddling with clojure's internal java structures.
01:37	jared314	coventry: can you post the link again? just lost my history
01:38	coventry	Logs are here: http://logs.lazybot.org/irc.freenode.net/%23clojure Link is https://github.com/gdeer81/marginalia/blob/master/src/marginalia/parser.clj#L63
01:39	coventry	poof
01:39	jared314	coventry: neat!
01:58	arrdem	jkkramer: any interest in structural hashing for Loom?
01:58	arrdem	jkkramer: I just did graph structural hashing and would be happy to work on a PR if you think it's something Loom could use.
02:28	ta479	,help
02:28	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: help in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
02:51	akurilin	Is there any way of aliasing compojure routes without much duplication?
02:52	akurilin	As in, my api routes are foo.bar.com/1/somethings and that doesn't look super nice in the URL bar if you're serving both HTML and json from the same routes
02:54	xsyn	akurilin: json/1/somethings vs 1/somethings ?
02:55	akurilin	as in, I'd rather remove the api version from the URL since that's more internal
02:55	akurilin	and for mobile clients
02:56	xsyn	ah
02:56	xsyn	I'm not sure how that would work
03:03	ta479	what are the major web frameworks for clojure, like Scala's Lift, play, scalatra, unfiltered, etc.?
03:06	xsyn	ta479: there's a library you can look at lib-noir, Clojure is more llibrary than framework driven
03:06	xsyn	look at lib-noir and compojure
03:09	ta479	xsyn: are there any examples I can learn from
03:11	scottj	ta479: also pedestal
03:13	xsyn	also pedestal
03:14	xsyn	which, depending on what you want to do may be like tying a rocket to your car ;)
03:14	xsyn	ta479: I'm trying to find what I got started with
03:14	xsyn	ta479: My understanding of Pedestal is that it's amazing for single page apps, scottj is that right?
03:15	scottj	xsyn: that's my understanding. I haven't used it.
03:15	H4ns	does anyone know whether there is a trick that makes primsmatic's schema.core support recursive definitions?
03:16	H4ns	i tried just specifying the name of a schema in its own definition, but that ends up with an unbound reference which cannot be validated
03:19	H4ns	http://cljbin.com/paste/52661e2de4b067e3f51a922b
03:41	ta479	what's the difference between == and =
03:44	xsyn	I'm not sure in Clojure
03:44	xsyn	but generally = is has same value
03:44	junk325	= is type independent
03:44	xsyn	== is same value and type
03:44	junk325	== tests for identical values
03:45	ta479	I don't get it
03:47	jared314	i thought == was only for numbers
03:48	jared314	,(== 1 1.0)
03:48	clojurebot	true
03:49	jared314	,(== 1 "1")
03:49	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
03:49	jared314	,(= 1 "1")
03:49	clojurebot	false
03:50	jared314	,(= 1 1.0)
03:50	clojurebot	false
03:51	ta479	,(== 1.0 1)
03:51	clojurebot	true
03:52	ta479	still confused
03:52	jared314	the value of 1 and 1.0 are the same
03:52	jared314	but
03:52	jared314	the type of 1 and 1.0 is different
03:53	jared314	== for numbers compares value
03:53	ta479	so xsyn meant = tests for same value and type?
03:53	junk325	look at the source
03:53	ta479	because he said == does that
03:53	junk325	https://github.com/richhickey/clojure/blob/a1eff35124b923ef8539a35e7a292813ba54a0e0/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L886
03:54	xsyn	== tests for value and type
03:54	xsyn	= test for value
03:54	jared314	are you sure?
03:55	junk325	no
03:55	junk325	it's not based on type, solely
03:56	junk325	jared314: for numbers == just checks equivalence
03:57	junk325	for other types it tests for identical values
03:57	jared314	== doesn't work for other types, just numbers
03:57	junk325	== uses `(. clojure.lang.Numbers (equiv ~x ~y))
03:57	xsyn	Why would you specifically define an operator just for values?
03:57	junk325	= uses (clojure.lang.Util/equiv x y)
03:58	junk325	that's the difference between the two
03:58	jared314	xsyn: to easily compare double and int
03:58	junk325	how are you defining "values"?
03:58	xsyn	ah
03:58	jared314	number values
03:59	ta479	,(== "1")
03:59	clojurebot	true
03:59	xsyn	yes, that makes sense
03:59	junk325	yeah, what you said jared314
03:59	Jarda	,(== "1" 1)
03:59	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
03:59	junk325	= will equate nil with other non-nil values
03:59	Jarda	,(= nil 2)
03:59	clojurebot	false
03:59	junk325	== will only equate 0 with 0 in any form and not nil
03:59	Jarda	,(= nil 0)
03:59	clojurebot	false
04:00	junk325	,(= nil 0)
04:00	clojurebot	false
04:00	junk325	,(= nil false)
04:00	clojurebot	false
04:00	ta479	== only works on numbers though, so there are no other types it works with except for the trivial unary case
04:00	jared314	,(== 2 2/1)
04:00	clojurebot	true
04:01	junk325	ta479 is right
04:01	junk325	(== nil 0) gives an exception
04:02	junk325	the docs should be more explicit about this
04:02	akurilin	Hey guys, has anybody here dealt with the issue of selmer not being able to find .html templates once the project is uberjarred?
04:02	jared314	there should be better docs on the whole
04:03	akurilin	Getting a FileNotFoundException, but otherwise it works just fine non-jarred
04:03	junk325	lol
04:03	jared314	but that is a big task
04:03	junk325	a lot of the docs are written very obscurely
04:03	junk325	some are like mindtrap puzzles
04:03	jared314	they assume you have read the source
04:03	jared314	which isn't a bad skill to have
04:04	junk325	sometimes the source required digging into core clojure java
04:05	gws	akurilin: what version of selmer
04:05	ta479	the doc for == also says returns non-nil which is ambiguous when it really always returns a bool
04:05	jared314	akurilin: is the template in the uberjar?
04:05	akurilin	gws 0 4 6
04:05	akurilin	jared314, yes, I unzipped and looked inside
04:05	gws	akurilin: i ask because of this https://github.com/yogthos/Selmer/commit/33f004e407b626bba0403568d8a6a9dd2bf567f2
04:05	gws	try 0.4.8?
04:05	amalloy	akurilin: you're probably using (file ...) instead of (resource ...) somewhere
04:06	amalloy	ie, "look here in the filesystem" (which doesn't exist in the deploy environment, rather than "look here on the classpath" (which the uberjar contains a copy of)
04:07	akurilin	gws, yeah that was it :(
04:07	akurilin	gws, or :) I mean
04:07	akurilin	amalloy, I was using render-file taking classpath in consideration, but I know what you mean, probably ran into that issue as well a dozen times.
04:10	jared314	there was a project awhile back, that showed up on hacker news, about searchable clojure function examples
04:10	jared314	you would search for a function and get example usages from some place
04:10	jared314	i wonder what happened to that
04:11	akurilin	yogthos, thanks for fixing that btw, made my night :)
04:12	akurilin	bitemyapp, btw, totally did what you mentioned a while ago with the gradual transition off of backbone to server-side rendering. Carving out one route at a time in nginx, chunk of the site is rendered by a completely different app
04:14	jared314	what is the preferred way to add new entries to data-readers? binding or set!
04:19	ddellacosta	jared314: I seem to recall it being something different than this, but clojuredocs.org, while out of date, still has plenty of useful clojure function examples
04:20	jared314	ddellacosta: i remember it being different too. I think he was using the datomic clojure parser at the time.
04:21	ddellacosta	jared314: yah, you could feed a "before and after" or something in, and it would give you functions that did what you wanted, right?
04:22	jared314	ddellacosta: I don't remember that part, but that would be cool
04:23	ddellacosta	jared314: ah, maybe I'm thinking of something else then
04:24	jared314	ddellacosta: http://getclojure.org/
04:24	ddellacosta	oh neat
04:24	ddellacosta	oh, that's super fun
04:24	ddellacosta	thanks jared314
04:26	ddellacosta	ha, the first few results for juxt are hilarious: http://getclojure.org/search?q=juxt&num=0
04:26	jared314	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5839659
04:27	ta479	,(not= 1.0 1)
04:27	clojurebot	true
04:27	ddellacosta	juxt juxt juxt juxt juxt juxt
04:27	ta479	,(not= 1 1)
04:27	clojurebot	false
04:27	ta479	,(not= 1 "1")
04:27	clojurebot	true
04:27	jared314	he pulled the examples from the IRC logs
04:27	jared314	and clojuredocs
04:28	ddellacosta	yah, wish they had added project links per that HN comment
04:28	ddellacosta	and there are definitely some garbage results, but ah well. Still a nifty idea
04:28	ddellacosta	with some refining thing it could be a great tool
04:28	ddellacosta	*think
04:29	jared314	it might be neat to parse the open source clojure projects and get a graph db of the related functions
04:30	ddellacosta	jared314: ah, to see what kind of functions are used in conjunction with each other more often, for example?
04:30	ddellacosta	that would indeed be coo;
04:30	jared314	yes
04:30	ddellacosta	*cool
04:31	xsyn	woah, juxt is awesome
04:32	xsyn	the documentation is insane though
04:32	ta479	(cf map) is really long
04:33	jared314	is anyone board enough to take a look at my code and tell me if i'm doing something stupid
04:34	jared314	?
04:34	jared314	bored*
04:34	jared314	https://gist.github.com/Jared314/7095415
04:41	jared314	i'll take that as a nope
04:54	ucb	jared314: I'm not bored but need a distraction :)
04:54	ucb	looking.
04:54	jared314	ucb: thanks
04:55	ucb	right. Well above my punching weight. Apologies :(
04:55	jared314	ucb: np
04:56	jared314	ucb: I need to get back on task anyway
04:56	ucb	jared314: :)
04:56	nonuby	jared314, perhaps take a look at clojure style guide, above my punching weight too to comment on anything but style
04:58	jared314	nonuby: https://github.com/bbatsov/clojure-style-guide ?
04:58	nonuby	thats the one
05:12	uruviel	jared314: what are you trying to do exactly? It looks like you want to parse some HTML (guessing from the hiccup) into a custom language?
05:12	musicalchair	jared314: that's interesting. it looks fun to play with. A bit above my punching weight & I'm not sure exactly where you're going with this (though I can guess). I might've shied away from using eval and written some sort of specific evaluator. I'd probably start with insta/transformer, actually. One thing to note is the implicit 'magic' of your code means you can't have a rule named 'grammar'. I would
05:12	musicalchair	say that sort of style goes against the grain of clojure community but that's no reason to stop, necessarily
05:13	jared314	uruviel: i'm translating hiccup to sexp because instaparse only has hiccup and enlive output formats
05:13	jared314	uruviel: and you cannot add more
05:14	uruviel	jared314: aahh right, now I see. Haven't played with instaparse yet (it's on the todo-list somewhere)
05:14	jared314	musicalchair: i wasn't sure where to put the grammar
05:15	musicalchair	jared314: if you used insta/transformer, you could retain the implicit magic 'ns defines a langauge' by having a grammar var (as you do) and a transformer var that contains the transform map
05:15	jared314	musicalchair: i was hoping that the "user" would write the namespace and then use the register function
05:16	yojimb012345	hey all, question about decomposition within a fn i.e. double square brackets, I know what this code does but I am having problems visualising in steps what the syntax is saying specifically of the [[h s]] bit: (doseq [line (map (fn [[h s]] (str h " (" s ")")) (partition 2 (hn-headlines-and-points)))] (println line)))
05:16	uruviel	jared314: so (guessing here) you want to generate a language that generates sexp's?
05:17	jared314	uruviel: yes, it would simplify implementing the language functionality
05:17	jared314	uruviel: but, it was just an idea
05:18	uruviel	jared314: hmm interesting approach, any specific DSL (using the term liberally here) in mind? I mean, I assume you'd like a custom language instead of vanilla Clojure because you'd be able to express some abstractions better
05:19	musicalchair	jared314: if you didn't want to use insta/transformer, you could still have a 'fn-map' var (or something) and in hiccup->sexp, make some gensyms for the fn, use the gensyms instead of the ns syms, and wrap the form in a let that binds the fns to the gensyms. a little complicated...
05:20	jared314	musicalchair: hold on, still looking at the instaparse source to see if transformer will work
05:21	jared314	yojimb012345: the mapped function takes the partitioned items and splits them back out into to then concat them into a string
05:21	notofi	Why is this function also "declaring(defn init [] (defn add5 [a] (+ a 5)))
05:21	notofi	Why is this function "declaring" add5 without me even calling (init)
05:23	jared314	yojimb012345: it will take the (1 2) and assign 1 to h and 2 to s
05:24	uruviel	notofi: because defn simply expands to (def (fn ...)) and defs define vars, which are bound to the namespace (iirc)
05:25	notofi	uruviel: yes but the "defn add5" is never evaluated
05:25	notofi	uruviel: it should only be evaluated when I call (init)
05:27	uruviel	notofi: it shouldn't and it doesn't in my REPL
05:28	notofi	uruviel: In my repl its like this: user=> (defn init [] (def Z 100))
05:28	uruviel	notofi: http://pastebin.com/4Wj5DGPj
05:28	notofi	#'user/init
05:28	notofi	user=> Z
05:28	notofi	#<Unbound Unbound: #'user/Z>
05:28	TEttinger	yes
05:28	TEttinger	that means it isn't declared
05:29	TEttinger	unbound fn
05:29	TEttinger	or rather unbound unbound
05:29	TEttinger	it doesn't even know its an fn yet
05:29	notofi	but the symbol Z should not be able to be resolved
05:29	TEttinger	it isn't.
05:29	TEttinger	try calling it
05:30	TEttinger	heck try calling qwerrtyyyyyy
05:30	TEttinger	should be the same
05:30	notofi	its not the same
05:30	notofi	user=> Y
05:30	notofi	CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: Y in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)
05:30	clojurebot	Huh?
05:30	notofi	user=> Z
05:30	notofi	#<Unbound Unbound: #'user/Z>
05:30	TEttinger	oh interesting
05:31	notofi	it has the same effect as if I would be (declare Z)
05:31	TEttinger	you can still defn over it
05:32	TEttinger	you're right, that is odd. it probably has to do with some compile-time stuff with defn
05:33	uruviel	notofi: hmm that's weird. You might wanna look through the defn source, maybe that explains it
05:34	jared314	musicalchair: I was hoping to extend the functions called beyond just transformations. So, you could implement the functionality of a dsl with clojure functions that match the grammar rules. I could generalize the hiccup->sexp to be a parse-tree transform though.
05:44	jared314	musicalchair & uruviel thanks for the help
08:35	jtoy	is there a simple function to check if a type is any numeric value? I am getting back nil or NaN or Infinity sometimes, but i want the value to be any float or integer
08:35	llasram	Yes, but -- ##(number? Double/NaN)
08:35	lazybot	⇒ true
08:40	jtoy	I will just check for the type being a double or integer than
08:40	jtoy	i didnt know about number?
08:40	llasram	##(float? Double/NaN)
08:40	lazybot	⇒ true
08:40	llasram	##(instance? Double Double/NaN)
08:40	lazybot	⇒ true
08:40	llasram	But: ##(Double/isNaN Double/NaN)
08:40	lazybot	⇒ true
08:41	llasram	But: ##(Double/isInfinite Double/POSITIVE_INFINITY)
08:41	lazybot	⇒ true
08:41	llasram	So those may be what you really want to check
09:09	glosoli	I have a map like this {:entry1 "val1" :entry2 "val2" :entry3 "val3"} I am curious if there is some alternative to update-in, that could update given set of keys by executing function on each of the value ?
09:10	llasram	glosoli: It's not in the standard lib, but a function usually named `map-vals` is a pretty common utility function
09:10	mdrogalis	glosoli: fmap?
09:10	mdrogalis	clojure.algo.functors I think
09:10	glosoli	aaa ok thanks sirs
09:10	mdrogalis	As llasram said, not in the standard lib.
09:31	coventry2	mdrogalis: clojure.algo.generic.functor
09:34	yedi_	https://github.com/yedi/chatter/blob/master/src-cljs/chatter/app.cljs ; why is (name :keyword) causing raising an exception here?
09:34	yedi_	dnolen bitemyapp, just a ping to see if you guys were able to take a look aat this
09:35	Morgawr	yedi_: what exception is raised?
09:36	mdrogalis	coventry2: Thanks :)
09:38	yedi_	Morgawr: https://gist.github.com/yedi/9562cebf6bc6e74d0a1a
09:41	Morgawr	yedi_: weird, I don't really know D:
09:45	yedi_	Morgawr: thanks for lookin anyways
09:46	Morgawr	yedi_: does it happen if you use the full name? cljs.core/name ?
09:46	Morgawr	because maybe it's getting shadowed/masked by something else
09:47	yedi_	ill try it
09:52	yedi_	no change
09:53	Morgawr	yedi_: that's weird then, I know they changed the way keywords are stored in cljs internally, the version I have of cljs is still an old one so I can't test (also on a bad connection)
09:53	Morgawr	might be a bug
09:53	Morgawr	does it happen in a cljs rhino repl too?
09:53	yedi_	i had one in the 1800s and then someone also suggested i upgrade to the newest when this bug appeared
09:54	yedi_	but it didn't fix it
09:54	yedi_	i just put up the whole repository so people can try to figure out if im doing something dumb elsewhere
09:55	yedi_	and nope
09:55	yedi_	it doesn't happen in a rhino repl. which is what makes this so odd
09:56	Morgawr	yedi_: yeah, definitely weird, I wish I knew more about cljs to help but unfortunately I don't
09:57	yedi_	yea np
09:57	vanitha	./script/run Error: Could not find or load main class clojure.main
09:57	vanitha	beginner to clojure. looking for your help. unable to get koans to run
10:07	xeqi	vanitha: which version of leiningen are you using?
11:05	dbsr	hey all
11:05	dbsr	im using euler challenges to learn clojure, i only started just now, and i was wondering about indentation
11:06	dbsr	or rather newlines
11:06	dbsr	when to start one
11:06	dbsr	is this ok for example http://bpaste.net/show/142834/
11:06	mdrogalis	dbsr: https://github.com/bbatsov/clojure-style-guide
11:06	mdrogalis	dbsr: Use =, not == :)
11:07	dnolen	yedi: your example app is pretty complicate w/ no instructions on how to run it.
11:07	glosoli	is there some nice pastebin for clojure that runs the code ?
11:07	dbsr	thanks mdrogalis
11:08	H4ns	glosoli: cljbin.com
11:08	dbsr	whats the difference if I may ask? like js == ===?
11:09	tazjin	Hej guys! If I set repositories in a Leiningen profile it seems like the ^:replace metadata is ignored. Is there a workaround?
11:09	mdrogalis	dbsr: = for value equality, == is numeric equality I think?
11:09	mdrogalis	I've actually never seen anyone use ==
11:09	wink	glosoli: http://cljbin.com/
11:09	dbsr	heh, got it from here http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html#FP
11:10	glosoli	thanks sirs
11:22	dobry-den	I find myself frequently mapping `int` across byte-arrays to do seq things on them (like concat), and then (byte-array (map byte ...)) when i'm done.
11:22	yedi	dnolen: my b, I added instructions for running it: https://github.com/yedi/chatter/blob/master/README.md
11:23	dobry-den	I don't remember my question
11:25	arrdem	clojurebot: ping
11:25	clojurebot	PONG!
11:25	`cbp	dobry-den: :P
11:26	Morgawr	http://nathanic.org/posts/2013/typed-clojure-tour/ really great article found on HN, probably it's been shared before but.. enjoy :)
11:27	arrdem	Morgawr: the author posed it in #typed-clojure about 24hrs ago. Good read.
11:27	Morgawr	aw damn, there's a #typed-clojure channel
11:27	Morgawr	thanks for letting me know :)
11:27	dobry-den	Here's a question: Would you say it's bad form to (let [x (get mymap :mykey (ex-info "Invalid"))] ...) instead of checking `x` in the body?
11:28	arrdem	yeah it's kinda dumb... so low traffic that they should really be in here.
11:28	llasram	dobry-den: Well, `ex-info` just returns an exception, not throws it, so...
11:28	Morgawr	arrdem: I'll just idle, sniping for interesting conversations hehe
11:28	llasram	dobry-den: But `get` is just a function, which evaluates all of it's arguments first, so doesn't really support that sort of idiom
11:29	arrdem	Morgawr: lurkin is the way to do it..
11:29	dobry-den	llasram: I meant `or`
11:29	llasram	I think that one seems perfectly reasonable :-)
11:29	llasram	Well, unless the value in the map might be `false` or `nil`
11:30	dobry-den	llasram: I'm pretty newb with exceptions. I've been using ex-info this week for exceptions but never came across a difference between returning them vs throwing them
11:30	dobry-den	i seem thrown in that any time they are evaluated in my code they show up to the user and halt progress
11:30	ToBeReplaced	dobry-den: i would do that in a precondition
11:31	llasram	##(ex-info "foo" {})
11:31	lazybot	⇒ #<ExceptionInfo clojure.lang.ExceptionInfo: foo {}>
11:31	llasram	##(throw (ex-info "foo" {}))
11:31	lazybot	clojure.lang.ExceptionInfo: foo {}
11:31	ToBeReplaced	like (defn myfun [m] {:pre [(contains? m :mykey)]} ...)
11:31	xeqi	dobry-den: are you interested in something like ##(doc if-let) ?
11:31	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([bindings then] [bindings then else & oldform]); bindings => binding-form test If test is true, evaluates then with binding-form bound to the value of test, if not, yields else"
11:31	llasram	An exception is just an instance of a class which extends Exception (or more generally, Throwable)
11:32	llasram	It doesn't cause non-local exits until you `throw` it
11:33	cleos_frey	hey guys, is there anyway to pull out the doc string of a method (eg, (do-magic myfn) => "This is a docstring")
11:33	dobry-den	llasram: Weird, maybe I just thought I tested it
11:33	llasram	cleos_frey: ##(-> #'first meta :doc)
11:33	lazybot	⇒ "Returns the first item in the collection. Calls seq on its\n argument. If coll is nil, returns nil."
11:34	dobry-den	ToBeReplaced: that's great, thanks.
11:34	cleos_frey	llasram: what do the hashes mean?
11:34	jkkramer	dobry-den: for that use case, there's also safe-get: https://github.com/Prismatic/plumbing/blob/master/src/plumbing/core.clj#L89
11:34	llasram	cleos_frey: The ## outside the parens just tells lazybot to evaluate it
11:35	jkkramer	or prismatic's schema, for describing/enforcing more complex data shapes
11:35	cleos_frey	oh haha
11:35	llasram	cleos_frey: The #' means you want the var itself for `first`, not the value of the var `first`
11:35	llasram	##[first #'first]
11:35	lazybot	⇒ [#<core$first clojure.core$first@d1931f> #'clojure.core/first]
11:36	dnolen	dbsr: == is only for numbers
11:36	ToBeReplaced	i'd like to see more clojure libraries use preconditions to sanitize their "options" input -- it's a pet peeve of mine when i pass ":stream" to find out i should be passing ":as-stream" or similar
11:37	cleos_frey	llasram: perfect, thank you!
11:46	dbsr	hey, how woould i rewrite this http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html#FP so the iteration / comprehension stops when the sum of the filtered result is > n?
11:46	dbsr	ow wrong link
11:46	dbsr	http://bpaste.net/show/142844/
11:46	mdrogalis	dbsr: take-while
11:47	llasram	Hmm, I don't think so
11:47	llasram	If you're using Clojure 1.5.x, you can write it using `reduce` and `reduced`
11:47	mdrogalis	llasram: Where do you see the problem?
11:47	dbsr	lemme see, i only installed it this afternoon
11:47	dbsr	its 1.5.1
11:48	cleos_frey	[I/exit
11:48	dbsr	imma have a look at the docs, thanks mdrogalis llasram
11:48	llasram	mdrogalis: take-while applies a predicate to the individual values, not to an aggregation over the values
11:48	cleos_frey	lets try that again
11:48	llasram	dbsr: One sec -- when you say "installed," OOC what did you mean?
11:48	dbsr	heh, through the package manager of arch
11:49	mdrogalis	llasram: Ah, nice. I was too quick.
11:49	llasram	dbsr: If that didn't actually install Leiningen, then most people here would suggest doing that before playing around much further: http://leiningen.org/
11:49	dbsr	got lein running, thanks :)
11:49	llasram	Ok, cool :-)
11:49	dbsr	use lein repl for the vim plugin
11:49	llasram	Awesome
11:50	dbsr	yea, looks like reduce should do the trick, thanks again
11:50	mdrogalis	llasram: Can you show me an example of using reduced ? I haven't see it before.
11:52	llasram	Sure: ##(reduce (fn [sum x] (let [sum (+ x sum)] (if (pos? sum) (reduced sum) sum))) -123 (range))
11:52	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: reduced in this context
11:52	llasram	Hah, lazybot
11:52	llasram	,(reduce (fn [sum x] (let [sum (+ x sum)] (if (pos? sum) (reduced sum) sum))) -123 (range))
11:52	clojurebot	13
11:52	llasram	&clojure-version
11:52	lazybot	⇒ {:major 1, :minor 4, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil}
11:52	hyPiRion	whaaat
11:52	llasram	Get with the times, lazybot!
11:53	hyPiRion	Raynes: what have you done? :o
11:53	mdrogalis	llasram: Ah, nice. Thanks :)
12:00	ticking	has anybody thought about writing a websocket as core.async channel abstraction lib? I'm wondering if ws should retain their unbounded nature or if a protocol should enforce boundedness like with regular channels.
12:03	xeqi	ticking: https://github.com/lynaghk/jetty7-websockets-async
12:03	mdrogalis	ticking: Let applications decide IMO.
12:04	xeqi	it was used in the torus pong clojure cup submission https://github.com/uswitch/torus-pong/
12:04	tbaldridge	ticking if you are going to that I'd recommend looking into using dropping buffers as well. The semantics around alts! are a bit interesting. what does this mean? (alts! [[socket1 42] [socket2 42]]). If you want to stick to core.async semantics that should send to either one or the other, not both.
12:04	ticking	xeqi: yeah kevin simply uses dropping channels iirc, but no guarantee of delivery over a guarantee of delivery medium seems like the worst default to me
12:05	tbaldridge	ticking: this is a network connection, you can never really guarantee delivery.
12:05	ticking	tbaldridge: on not delivery the connection closes
12:06	tbaldridge	What if you put into a channel and them the socket closes, what do you do with the value you took from the channel?
12:06	tbaldridge	what do you do if the message gets to the remote end, and the remote buffer is full?
12:07	ticking	yeah, but you know that the last n (depending on the websocket buffer size) messages might got lost
12:07	ticking	tbaldridge: yeah, thus the protocol on top of ws messages that enforces delivery
12:08	ticking	well, delivery of channel closing
12:09	tbaldridge	ticking: so basically make everything use (dropping-buffer n)
12:09	tbaldridge	ticking: or sliding-buffer, but IMO that's the only way to do networking with core.async correctly.
12:09	ticking	tbaldridge: dropping buffers put you into a limbo of a semibroken connection
12:10	tbaldridge	ticking: welcome to networking. The only reliable semantics are "at least once delivery"+ack messages+idempotent messages
12:10	tbaldridge	ticking: notice how not even Erlang attempts to solve this. In Erlang everything is "best effort delivery"
12:11	ticking	erlang is the actor model, core async is csp
12:11	ticking	they have a fundamentally different approach when it comes to message passing
12:11	tbaldridge	ticking: and networks are not csp. Don't try to turn them into something they are not. Physical machines have locks, transactions etc.
12:12	ticking	tbaldridge: and still we generally use tcp instead of udp
12:12	tbaldridge	That's why CSP exists at all, we can guarantee that a CPU core won't suddenly disconnect from the system. We know that if we put memory into memory location X it will get there, (aside from torching the machine).
12:13	ticking	tbaldridge: just because we can't guarantee delivery absolutely, does not mean we have to give no guarantees
12:14	seangrove	tbaldridge: If core.async can't guarantee memory updates through a simple machine torching, sounds like a ticket needs to be filed
12:14	ticking	tbaldridge: with a certain certainty yes
12:14	tbaldridge	seangrove: ??
12:14	lazybot	tbaldridge: Uh, no. Why would you even ask?
12:15	seangrove	tbaldridge: Sorry, attempt at humor and and apparent miss
12:15	ticking	tbaldridge: nevertheless we can guarantee certain things for example, we guarantee delivery except for the n last send messages
12:15	tbaldridge	ticking: that's fine, but that doesn't match the core.async semantics. So now we're in a odd world where a thing looks like a channel, acts like a channel, but has different semantics.
12:16	tbaldridge	ticking: so that's my point. Either make everything unreliable (and have it fit with core.async semantics), or make it a completely different thing that isn't called a channel.
12:17	ticking	tbaldridge: no not really, say we have a simple send ack-receive protocol on top of websockets, we should be able to leave unreceived messages in the cannel
12:18	ticking	which is exactly core.asyc semantics, if its not removed it stays in the channel
12:18	seangrove	ticking: Isn't that something you could build on top of core.async as a library?
12:18	ticking	tbaldridge: if the connection breaks down, your application disgards that half filled but now closed channel
12:19	tbaldridge	ticking: so that's the problem. Core.async uses two-phase commit. And now you hit the messenger problem. You send "recv message", the remote end acks it, you never get the ack (connection dies). Now what? The remote end is processing the message, but it hasn't been removed from the queue.
12:19	ticking	seangrove: I'm definately not proposing this to be built into core.async
12:20	ticking	tbaldridge: when your websocket dies you can assume that the client dies as well
12:20	tbaldridge	ticking: really? Did it process the message? If the remote end was going to launch a missile, was the missile launched or not?
12:21	tbaldridge	it all comes down to this problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Generals'_Problem and it cannot be fixed, that's life. Network connections are unreliable.
12:21	ticking	tbaldridge: you are assuming that the two sides have the same authority
12:21	tbaldridge	The only way fix it is via idempotent messages. At that point reliability doesn't matter.
12:21	ticking	tbaldridge: with websockets they have not
12:22	tbaldridge	?
12:22	ticking	tbaldridge: ther client is basically a slave, once the connection breaks down, it dies as well
12:23	tbaldridge	ticking: that's not exactly true. I worked on a system that used websockets. They auto-reconnect. I would often restart the server and never restart the client. The WS would reconnect and continue to operate as expected.
12:24	ticking	tbaldridge: that is a border case I'm happy to ignore
12:25	ticking	tbaldridge: in 99% of all web applications the server is assumed to be reliable while the client is not
12:26	ticking	tbaldridge: but even in your scenario the client basically becomes the classical server and vice versa
12:27	tbaldridge	I suppose, if you ignore certain physical constraints, it becomes easier to write code that works in the "normal" case.
12:28	tbaldridge	I would prefer to write systems that continue to work even if things aren't "normal".
12:28	ticking	tbaldridge: why do you treat websockets like udp, they are not
12:29	seangrove	ticking: With websockets, is there no possible way a message ACK can be lost?
12:29	seangrove	Is it guaranteed to be delivered even if it's dropped several times?
12:29	tbaldridge	ticking: It's just that the most common intersection of core.async and ws looks something like UDP. Stop trying to make things look like channels that aren't channels, and I don't have a problem.
12:30	ticking	seangrove: with every use case proposed so far, when the ack gets lost, the side which send the ack is dead
12:30	ticking	seangrove: so you never get a split brain situation
12:31	seangrove	Well, it's all over my head. But I suppose if you can get it to work, it would be interesting to see.
12:32	ticking	tbaldridge: udp looses messages between messages, websockets don't do that, so they are basically an unbounded chan which looses its messages when closed
12:33	ticking	tbaldridge: so an unbounded single consumer multiple producer channel
12:33	tbaldridge	ticking: unbounded chan that looses messages is nothing like CSP
12:33	tbaldridge	or looses on close that is.
12:34	ticking	tbaldridge: with buffersize 0 it is
12:34	tbaldridge	ticking: with buffersize of 0 you can't even enqueue unless a remote side will accept the message and then it always delivers the message (even if the channel is closed).
12:37	ticking	tbaldridge: 1 yes wheres the problem, 2 that sounds like a bug to me
12:37	tbaldridge	ticking: all I'm saying here, is that a lot of people have but thought into this, and there's a reason Kevin's system uses dropping-buffers.
12:38	tbaldridge	And with idempotent messages one can always add reliable messaging to something like Kevin's code.
12:39	ticking	tbaldridge: yeah but idempotency is a whole unnessecary can of worms
12:40	ticking	tbaldridge: look I agree 100% percent with you, when it comes to networking in general, just not for websockets^^
12:41	dobry-den	(.toByteArray (biginteger x)) -> No method .toByteArray for clojure.lang.BigInt. (.toByteArray (.toBigInteger (biginteger x)) -> No method .toBigInteger for java.math.BigInteger.
12:43	tbaldridge	Websockets are not magic, they are network protocols. I don't see how it is any different
12:47	ticking	tbaldridge: in the way one client's existence depends on the existence of the connection
12:51	tbaldridge	ticking: I suppose you could get by with saying "if the network connection dies you must restart your app". Although for most systems I work on that would be a painful requirement.
12:52	tbaldridge	ticking: switch off the VPN, reload your app. Switch from Wifi to hardline, restart your app. Someone steps in front of your flaky wifi connection, restart the app.
12:53	ticking	tbaldridge: yes to all but the last one ^^
12:53	tbaldridge	Like I said, redefine the parameters of the problem, and I suppose something like this could work. But I'd hate to base an entire app on such assumptions.
12:55	tbaldridge	A better idea, imo is to use unreliable semantics, then use core.async to layer reliable semantics on top when you need them. Mix in a bit of idempotent-ency where needed and that sounds like a much better solution, imo.
13:02	seangrove	bitemyapp: You remember at the prismatic meetup they talked about marquee they would insert in code in different sections? I was wondering if there's actually a term for that
13:02	technomancy	page breaks or gtfo
13:02	seangrove	technomancy: in source code?
13:03	technomancy	seangrove: hells yea
13:04	technomancy	they're just whitespace
13:13	arrdem	technomancy: what exacly does that generate in an editor?
13:13	arrdem	* how does it render
13:13	technomancy	arrdem: emacs renders it as ^L
13:15	technomancy	supposedly there are tricks to get it to render like an <hr>
13:15	technomancy	hmm; I should set that up
13:16	seangrove	technomancy: Please share if you find it
13:16	arrdem	; C-79 RET -
13:16	arrdem	:P
13:17	coventry	http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/PageBreaks
13:17	arrdem	(inc coventry)
13:17	lazybot	⇒ 3
13:17	technomancy	emacs also has bindings for jumping forward and backward by pages
13:18	arrdem	technomancy: I know Emacs can navigate by pages, I was curious if emacs did whitespace padding to fit _only_ one page-break deliminated hunk on the screen
13:19	technomancy	arrdem: nah
13:20	ticking	tbaldridge: btw, you convinced me to go with reconnect-ability and unreliability, but I still 90% of all code will ignore the latter
13:20	ticking	*think
13:23	technomancy	I can confirm that M-x package-install page-break-lines works
13:23	coventry	I'm wondering whether it would be a good idea for the compile/eval functions in Compiler.java to wrap any exceptions from calls to macroexpand* in CompilerExceptions. Would make it easier to find errors by providing source location info. Anyone seen prior discussion of ideas like this?
13:35	coventry	I guess the try/catch in AnalyzeSeq gets most of these cases already, actually.
14:49	metactus	is there a way to recur with a different arity if the function is overloaded?
14:50	amalloy	metactus: not tail-recursively (ie, with recur), but you can just call the function again, by name
14:51	jared314	what about trampoline?
14:51	amalloy	completely irrelevant
14:52	jared314	amalloy: ouch, just trying to learn here
14:52	metactus	amalloy: that worked, thanks
14:52	mdrogalis	That was a bit uncalled for. :/
14:52	AimHere	If you call the function again, that will eat up the stack though, won't it?
14:53	coventry	trampoline actually seems like a sensible solution, if the different-arity calls turn out to overflow the stack.
14:56	amalloy	coventry: (defn foo ([x] x) ([x y] (trampoline #(foo x)))) doesn't use up any less stack space; you have to rewrite other related functions in order to get a net benefit from the trampoline
14:59	mikerod	Would AOT compilation be to blame (or a suspect) for slower start up times of an uber-jar that has the clojure jar along with a small program written in clj?
14:59	mikerod	With verbose output on java jar, it seems that a lot of classes are being loaded upfront, is this expected?
15:00	technomancy	mikerod: I've never heard of AOT being anything but a help for startup time
15:01	mikerod	technomancy: that's what I was thinking
15:02	coventry	amalloy: Yes, it's pointless to transfer through a trampoline call. It might make sense in the context of a trampoline for foo to return something like #(if pred (foo x) (foo x y)), though.
15:03	bitemyapp	seangrove: the marquee thing, was this one of the lightning talks or a Prismatic thing?
15:03	coventry	s/transfer/recur/
15:07	dnolen	yedi: not sure when I'll have time to look at your app, IMO you should try to recreate the problem with a simpler app with no deps besides CLJ and CLJS.
15:29	dobry-den	In Java, if you pass `array1` into (fn [array] array[0] = "foo"), does that mutate array1 or just a copy of it?
15:30	ndp	As with most things in Java, array parameters are pass-by-reference so that will mutate array1 in place.
15:31	dobry-den	ndp: thanks
15:31	dobry-den	that's really confusing
15:33	ndp	What's really annoying coming from Clojure is how the Guava Collections libraries handle sorting - they generally sort in place. It really messes with my Zen thing.
15:33	cmajor7	need an opinion: need to walk a sequence until something is found. "map/reduce/filter" walk the sequence in full. "loop" is "somewhat too imperative" :), maybe "while".. but also feels very similar to loop. what do you guys think?
15:33	coventry	cmajor7: check out (reduced) for stopping a reduce loop.
15:34	hyPiRion	map and filter doesn't walk a sequence in full.
15:34	ndp	filter returns a lazy seq so you can stop iteration when you find the element
15:34	dobry-den	cmajor7: (first (filter pred coll)) stops at first match becuase filter is lazy
15:35	llasram	mod chunking
15:35	Morgawr	cmajor7: maybe take-while? depends on what you need
15:35	amalloy	also (some is-this-the-thing? coll)
15:36	amalloy	well, i guess that returns a boolean, so is only what you want if you just want to know whether something is there, rather than what is there
15:36	cmajor7	coventry: I think that is exactly what was missing.. reduced was added in 1.5, missed it.
15:36	dobry-den	llasram: are 32 realized at a time
15:36	Raynes	gf3: You're unoriginal and that's bad and you should feel bad.
15:37	llasram	dobry-den: That's how the current implementation works, yeah
15:37	hyPiRion	&clojure-version
15:37	lazybot	⇒ {:major 1, :minor 4, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil}
15:37	dobry-den	ndp: ive had my clojure blinders on for so long that the ruby version would also mutate in place. i remember now that it was what inspired me to try clojure after working on a large codebase.
15:37	cmajor7	amalloy: some is good too, I am doing ternary tree breadth first search.. (until I find something) so on each level I do (3^level) things.. hence wanted to stop somewhere..
15:38	gf3	Raynes: I used to think I was too hip to be unoriginal
15:38	llasram	Raynes: Yeah, what's up with lazybot? Poor, sad, old lazybot
15:38	gf3	Raynes: Now I just have too many pairs of tight pants
15:38	Raynes	lazybot: kill
15:38	lazybot	KILL IT WITH FIRE!
15:38	Raynes	gf3: You should use snapchat.
15:38	gf3	Raynes: I am a snapchat machine
15:38	gf3	Raynes: Add me: LOLgianni
15:39	bitemyapp	gf3: if I add you, do you promise to send pictures of the puppy?
15:40	gf3	bitemyapp: Sadly I'm on the other side of Canada now :(
15:40	gf3	bitemyapp: But I can send you cute-as-fuck cat snaps
15:40	bitemyapp	gf3: deal.
15:40	gf3	bitemyapp: Also shitty dance moves and really horrible selfies
15:41	gf3	Raynes: Also FWIW I agree with you, re: beard
15:41	cmajor7	dobry-den (and others): yep, (first (filter pred..)) will also "do it" since map/reduce/filter are in fact lazy (although by 32). cool, now I have plenty to choose from, although "reduced" sounds great to try, since it is all new and shiny :)
15:41	llasram	cmajor7: `reduce` is not lazy
15:41	llasram	FYI
15:41	Raynes	gf3: Fight the power!
15:42	Raynes	bitemyapp, gf3: Funfact: I walked past the snapchat headquarters on the Venice boardwalk about two weeks ago. Didn't even realize it was there until I saw the big ol' snapchat icon.
15:42	hyPiRion	huh what beard
15:42	gf3	Raynes: And then it disappeared after 10s
15:42	pandeiro	should async's go blocks work as expected when used from the browser REPL? or only in pre-compiled code?
15:43	bitemyapp	Raynes: I saw when I visited you in LA
15:43	bitemyapp	saw it*
15:43	cmajor7	llasram: but "reduced" will stop it whenever "I want" e.g. "found"
15:43	cmajor7	,(doc reduced)
15:43	bitemyapp	their beachhouse is the best use of VC money I've ever seen
15:43	clojurebot	"([x]); Wraps x in a way such that a reduce will terminate with the value x"
15:43	Raynes	gf3: lol
15:43	llasram	cmajor7: Yes. Doesn't make it lazy though :-)
15:43	cemerick	dnolen: On cljs master, (rseq []) => (); Clojure returns nil for the same. Do you want a ticket for that?
15:44	cmajor7	llasram: oh, you are referring to my statement of it being lazy. yes, it is not. thx
15:45	bitemyapp	hrm. Creepy. My landlord has a snapchat account that starts with "PicChic"
15:45	dnolen	cemerick: sure, preferable that the patch follow any performance related optimizations present in Clojure
15:45	dnolen	cemerick: not saying there are any (haven't looked myself)
15:46	cemerick	dnolen: Sure; I'm personally more interested in correctness/compat at the moment, but I'll take a look.
15:49	dnolen	cemerick: ok I took at peek, I want a fast patch for that just like Clojure + tests
15:49	dnolen	cemerick: implementers of IReversible need to do the right thing.
15:49	cemerick	dnolen: sorted-map is correct, which is something
15:54	dnolen	cemerick: as long you're there note you can type-hint the return value of rseq as ^seq, and type-hint coll as ^not-native in this case.
15:58	cemerick	dnolen: OK, "fast patch"? The fix is to simply drop the else branch from -rseq @ 3315, no? (and 707 for that matter)
15:59	dnolen	cemerick: sounds good to me, I just didn't want a seq or empty? call in rseq
15:59	cemerick	oh, sure
15:59	cemerick	I'm going to have to read the compiler a bit to really know what the ^seq and ^not-native hints are for. Will take a closer look at that later.
16:00	cemerick	I mean, I can guess, but that's probably not a good idea. :-)
16:00	dnolen	cemerick: ^seq is just to propagate information so we don't have truth calls around conventions like
16:00	dnolen	(if (seq foo) ...)
16:00	dnolen	or
16:00	dnolen	(let [s (seq foo)] (if s ...))
16:00	dnolen	^not-native is to remove protocol indirection
16:00	cemerick	dnolen: so ^seq guarantees not-empty?
16:00	dnolen	and get direct dispatch
16:01	dnolen	cemerick: no in this case ^seq just means it's a ^seq value, nil or a seq
16:01	cemerick	ok
16:01	cemerick	dnolen: realized, then?
16:02	dnolen	cemerick: nope, it's like the ^boolean type hint
16:02	dnolen	it's really just for (if x ...)
16:02	cemerick	dnolen: then how does it help you avoid (seq x)?
16:02	cemerick	i.e. if it's a lazy, empty seq
16:02	dnolen	cemerick: sorry I think you're getting confused what it's for
16:03	cemerick	heh
16:03	cemerick	almost surely
16:03	dnolen	(defn ^seq rseq [coll] ...)
16:03	cemerick	Need to read some internals :-)
16:03	dnolen	this communicates to the compiler that the result can be tested with (if x ...)
16:03	dnolen	w/o needed to check for stupid JS false-y values
16:03	dnolen	needing
16:04	dnolen	i.e 0 and the blank string
16:04	cemerick	dnolen: ok, so it's more of a host mask than actually statically guaranteeing anything about (seq x)
16:04	tos9	/qui
16:05	dnolen	cemerick: yep, only about performance same as ^boolean
16:05	clojurebot	Excuse me?
16:06	cemerick	dnolen: and will ^not-native on rseq's `coll` arg emit a warning on e.g. `(rseq (js/Array.))`?
16:06	dnolen	cemerick: no, runtime exception just like Clojure
16:07	dnolen	cemerick: none these type hints are about verification - only optimizations hints to the compiler
16:08	dnolen	cemerick: though later down the line when we have more inference in the compiler - I would like to start emitting warnings
16:11	pandeiro	dnolen: should go blocks work from the browser repl or just in pre-compiled code?
16:12	dnolen	pandeiro: I don't see why it would make a difference, though doing go block at the REPL might get hairy with running event loops
16:12	dnolen	er go loops
16:12	pandeiro	dnolen: yeah i am just trying to recreate your examples (the simplest ones) from your blog
16:13	pandeiro	and what i notice is that (<! ...) doesn't seem to work
16:13	pandeiro	stuff gets put! on channels fine and the go block itself returns some kind of object with dirty puts et al
16:14	dnolen	pandeiro: I haven't tried core.async w/ brepl so I can't say definitively but I'd be very surprised.
16:14	pandeiro	but the special <! take operation doesn't do anything
16:14	dnolen	pandeiro: <! only works in a go block
16:14	pandeiro	right i am evaling the whole form
16:14	pandeiro	(go (let ... (while true ... (<! ...))))
16:15	dnolen	pandeiro: but what channel are you reading from and is someone else already reading from it
16:15	dnolen	pandeiro: which is what I alluded to above, running go loops and REPL interaction is going to be very tricky
16:15	pandeiro	okay...
16:16	pandeiro	i defined a listen exactly like yours, with no callback but returning a channel
16:16	pandeiro	then i do (let [c (chan)] (go ...)) and use that very chan
16:16	pandeiro	even that first use would have issues?
16:17	pandeiro	sorry (let [c (listen ...) ] above
16:19	dnolen	pandeiro: if you evaluate the entire let block should be OK
16:19	pandeiro	dnolen: i am using a pre-compiled cljs, that wouldn't be an issue though i imagine
16:19	pandeiro	( cljs i am using is this: https://gist.github.com/pandeiro/6628294/raw/clojurescript.plus.js )
16:20	dnolen	pandeiro: I would not expect that to work at all
16:20	noncom	i know i can destuct maps in function arguments. but can i destruct nested maps?
16:20	dnolen	pandeiro: core.async now needs 1934
16:20	pandeiro	dnolen: i have a more recent build locally
16:21	pandeiro	dnolen: as for not working, every other lib seems to
16:21	pandeiro	it lets me start up a browser repl server and have cljs anywhere i inject a bookmarklet, which is fun
16:21	dnolen	pandeiro: because you're getting lucky
16:21	dnolen	pandeiro: in general you cannot rely on this behavior
16:21	dnolen	pandeiro: core.async is perf sensitive and relies on 1934
16:22	dnolen	changes in 1934, I mean
16:22	pandeiro	dnolen: ah yeah no the build i am using i 1934
16:22	pandeiro	the github one is old
16:22	pandeiro	i have another local version
16:22	pandeiro	but you meant 'getting lucky' about the pre-built cljs in general?
16:22	dnolen	pandeiro: yes
16:22	pandeiro	working with the browser repl / bookmarklet?
16:22	dnolen	pandeiro: you must build everything together
16:22	pandeiro	why is that lucky?
16:22	ianeslick	@cemerick Do you have a second to chat about immutant logging?
16:22	dnolen	pandeiro: because the compiler could change
16:22	pandeiro	ah
16:22	dnolen	calling conventions and who knows what else
16:23	ianeslick	@cemerick There is an interesting issue regarding making dynamic logging changes 'sticky'
16:23	pandeiro	but if it built
16:23	cemerick	ianeslick: oh?
16:23	dnolen	pandeiro: yes if everything is built with the same version of the compiler - this approach could work - though I don't see the point.
16:24	ianeslick	@cemerick If I call .setLevelName on the result of a .getLogger call it doesn't stick. But if the Logger from getLogger is printed to the repl, then I call .setLevelName, it works. Feels like something somewhere is lazy
16:24	dnolen	bbiab
16:24	ianeslick	@cemerick I can't figure out what the repl is doing that causes the logger (a new logger) to be persisted.
16:25	ta479	Can anyone explain this complicated type signature to me: http://pastebin.com/HfKvqQLg
16:26	cemerick	ianeslick: well, j.u.l.Loggers don't have much smarts to them, so I'd doubt there's laziness around
16:26	ta479	it seems unnecessarily complicated compared to haskell's fmap :: (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
16:26	cemerick	ianeslick: are you doing something similar to my gist?
16:26	ianeslick	Yes
16:27	ianeslick	Yes, I didn't see anything walking through the code
16:27	brehaut	ta479: if clojure's map and haskell's fmap did the same thing, then saying map's type is unnecessarily complex would be sensible. but they dont
16:27	cemerick	ianeslick: I'm still on immutant 1.0.1 I think, if that matters shrug
16:27	ianeslick	Probably not, I don't think the log manager was updated.
16:28	ta479	brehaut: the only difference I see is variadic parameters
16:28	brehaut	ta479: clojure's map is only fmap over sequences, not arbitrary structures, but it is also also zip due to varargs
16:28	ianeslick	I can log against the logger, but the log level doesn't stick until I allow the logger to be printed by the REPL. Very odd!
16:29	brehaut	ta479: also, typed clojures type system is different to haskells. it can encode some things that are difficult in haskell, eg non-empty sequences
16:29	cemerick	ianeslick: There's absolutely either a race condition or a module init order issue that forces the application of that namespace at the end of my immutant.init. Are you doing that? Even if you are, it may be that we're forcing the loading of modules in different orders, at different times, etc.
16:30	ianeslick	@cemerick This phenomenon happens after load time; I use XML to set a default state, then am writing some REPL tools to change settings during development. e.g. this works: (switchboard.utils.sys/set-logger-level (str ns) :debug)
16:30	ianeslick	But this has no effect: (do (switchboard.utils.sys/set-logger-level (str ns) :debug) nil)
16:31	ianeslick	(defn set-logger-level
16:31	ianeslick	"Sets the log level for a namespace"
16:31	ianeslick	[namespace level]
16:31	ianeslick	(let [level (.toUpperCase (name level))]
16:31	ianeslick	(doto (get-logger namespace)
16:31	ianeslick	(.setLevelName level)
16:31	ianeslick	(.log (Level/parse level)
16:31	ianeslick	(str "Enabling logging of " ns " at " level))
16:31	ianeslick	(.getLogContext))))
16:31	ianeslick	Sorry, should have been a gist, but it's small
16:31	brehaut	ta479: keep in mind, haskell's library is developed in sync with its type system. clojure's library develops in isolation and the type system must then provide types for those idioms. it does result in more complex types for core functions due to their flexibility.
16:31	ianeslick	In both of those cases, the enable logging statement is issued but only in the 'printed at the repl' case does it persist.
16:33	cemerick	ianeslick: how are you starting your REPL?
16:33	ianeslick	It's an nrepl attached to immutant.
16:33	cemerick	ianeslick: right, but: are you letting immutant start it, or are you controlling it?
16:34	ta479	brehaut: so is it possible to make a much slimmer type signature for a custom map and lose some flexibility?
16:34	brehaut	ta479: yes
16:34	brehaut	ta479: but why would you
16:34	ianeslick	Letting immutant start the repl server.
16:35	ianeslick	Then connect from emacs
16:35	ianeslick	Same effect occurs if I use nrepl-inspect instead of just printing it.
16:37	noncom	can i do a nested destructuring of a nested map?
16:37	cemerick	ianeslick: so, I don't have any theories re: the effect of the REPL on the 'stickiness'. I'm willing to bet it's a misattribution, and you're just getting the "correct" logger sometimes, sometimes not (due to classloader wonkiness). Does your logging config work properly when applied at the end of your immutant.init?
16:38	amalloy	noncom: certainly, why not?
16:38	noncom	amalloy: could you show how it looks like? i just can't guess..
16:39	amalloy	noncom: do you know how to destructure a map? it's just applying further destructuring to the "names" of the locals you bind
16:39	noncom	(defn f [& {:keys [a b c]}] ...)
16:40	noncom	but how i destructure a, b or c? in a separate let?
16:40	amalloy	noncom: that is shorthand for a more general destructuring
16:40	amalloy	&(let [{{:keys [first]} :name} {:name {:first "john" :last "smith"}}] first)
16:40	lazybot	⇒ "john"
16:41	noncom	aha.. i see... is it possible to take it to arguments destructuring or do i have to use this full form?
16:42	hyPiRion	That doesn't make sense
16:42	noncom	what do you mean?
16:43	hyPiRion	If you have {:keys [{...}]}, then what does {...} refer to?
16:43	hyPiRion	(If I read you correctly, I am not sure I am)
16:43	hyPiRion	You can use the :as directive inside a map to keep it though.
16:44	noncom	yeah, and that is the same kind of problem that i originnaly stepped into. thought maybe there is a way. also didn't know about what amalloy showed - looks cool
16:44	noncom	yeah, so an :as or further lets are the way
16:45	hyPiRion	,(let [{{:keys [first] :as person} :name} {:first "john" :age 21}] [first person])
16:45	clojurebot	[nil nil]
16:45	amalloy	noncom: you should practice destructuring maps without using :keys
16:45	hyPiRion	well obviously I forgot something there
16:45	hyPiRion	,(let [{{:keys [first] :as person} :person} {:person {:first "john" :age 21}}] [first person])
16:45	clojurebot	["john" {:age 21, :first "john"}]
16:45	amalloy	the convenient shortcut :keys seems to be causing you to not understand the more-general things being pointed out to you
16:46	noncom	amalloy: how do i do destructuring without :keys? the "let" examples above use :keys
16:46	hyPiRion	,(let [{{first :first :as person} :person} {:person {:first "john" :age 21}}] [first person])
16:46	clojurebot	["john" {:age 21, :first "john"}]
16:46	amalloy	$google clojure destructure map
16:46	lazybot	[Jay Fields' Thoughts: Clojure: Destructuring] http://blog.jayfields.com/2010/07/clojure-destructuring.html
16:47	noncom	ah right..
16:47	noncom	thanks guys, you made good examples!
16:47	noncom	so no way to destructure a nested map right inside function params declaration?
16:48	noncom	oh sorry
16:48	noncom	found it in the jayfields examples
16:48	noncom	ok, i'll go practive
16:48	noncom	*practice
16:52	ta479	brehaut: because a lot of the higher order function types are something I can't imagine myself writing in my own code
16:53	ta479	HOD types for clojure.core functions
16:53	ta479	just doesn't seem practical
16:53	brehaut	ta479: why would you be writing types for core?
16:54	ta479	no, types for my own HOD functions
16:54	ta479	HOF*
16:55	brehaut	ta479: thats entirely different to writing types for functions in core
16:55	brehaut	ta479: in particular, you probably arent supporting a wide range of interfaces
16:56	ianeslick	@cemerick I can try that, but I'm applying it interactively so I'm unclear how within the same repl session the class loader environment would change. I'm only evaluating the loggers for actively loaded classes, the repl is in the loaded class's namespace, and I'm making those two calls one of which enables the logger and one of which doesn't.
16:56	ianeslick	@cemerick The misattribution is likely, but I can't figure out what else I might attribute the difference to
16:57	technomancy	ianeslick: this isn't twitter; easy with the derefs
16:57	ianeslick	@oops
16:57	technomancy	you'll cause his transactions to retry
16:57	ianeslick	#oops?
16:57	ianeslick	IRC #noob
16:57	ianeslick	I always forget the conventions...
16:57	mtp	this isn't twitter
16:58	ianeslick	mtp: I'm being facetious
16:58	mtp	hard to tell :)
16:58	ianeslick	Although I did forget the '@name' vs. name: to call out someone specifically.
17:00	cemerick	ianeslick: Yeah, it doesn't make sense on the face of it. I just have a hard time believing that REPL printing can affect the state of a Logger.
17:01	ianeslick	cemerick: I hear you and agree. I'll noodle on it some more.
17:11	sveri	hi, do you know a place where people can code together online?
17:12	TimMc	Like a multiplayer web IDE?
17:12	sveri	exactly
17:12	technomancy	there is https://syme.herokuapp.com that I made
17:12	sveri	i often thought that it would be more fun to solve puzzles together or work on a project
17:13	sveri	technomancy: ah, i see, thats a nice start
17:13	sveri	but somehow the community is missing
17:14	technomancy	sveri: right, you need to arrange beforehand with whoever you're collaborating with
17:14	technomancy	I find IRC to be a great medium for that =)
17:14	sveri	yea thats right, partially
17:14	sveri	but imagine something like a chat server
17:14	sveri	you can scroll coding rooms
17:15	sveri	and people sit and talk about something, everybody can join
17:15	sveri	for instance if you dont wanna hack on something but like to watch somebody hack
17:16	technomancy	that'd be cool
17:16	technomancy	could just use a freenode channel though
17:17	sveri	yea, but i know a lot of coders that dont use irc and watch me like a maniac when i tell them i ask questions in the irc from time to time
17:17	technomancy	invite them in; we won't bite
17:17	technomancy	well except for bitemyapp
17:17	sveri	:D
17:17	sveri	i know
17:18	sveri	but its almost always like: "IRC? does it still exist?" :D
17:18	TimMc	Man, if I didn't have IRC, I'd be like "What is computer? How does Clojure?"
17:18	grncdr	sveri: there's also https://friendco.de/ that might interest you
17:18	TimMc	...although StackOverflow is becoming a pretty amazing resource.
17:19	sveri	grncdr: thats almost what i am looking for, but again not open enough
17:20	sveri	hm, dismissing the fact that the try it now button isnt working :D
17:21	grncdr	sveri: yeah I have no affiliation with it
17:22	grncdr	played around a bit when it was announced and moved on
17:22	sveri	grncdr: yea, was no offense, good to know that something like that exists
17:30	musicalchair	sveri: I like your idea; I've been thinking in a similar vein or two recently
17:30	TimMc	Hmm, someone was talking about a collaborative editing thing recently...
17:35	bhenry	what does it mean when a namespace compiles fine in the repl, but when trying to run `lein ring server` that same namespace won't compile because it can't resolve a particular symbol from another namespace?
17:37	technomancy	bhenry: you deleted a var or created something in the repl that doesn't exist on disk
17:38	bhenry	technomancy: it's a brand new nrepl session in emacs and all i do is C-c-k within the namespace in question. it compiles fine.
17:38	technomancy	oh, no idea then. check to see if it works from lein run?
17:38	technomancy	I don't use lein-ring
17:41	technomancy	IMO sticking with lein run and lein repl is a lot simpler
17:42	bitemyapp	bhenry: what symbol, anyway?
17:42	bitemyapp	bhenry: lein ring is mostly handling auto-reloads which is basically just some middleware and #' of the app var.
17:43	bitemyapp	it does some other things like designate takedown/init functions but I think realistically you don't want to rely on the magic and instead just understand what's going on.
17:45	bhenry	bitemyapp: it's a symbol in my own namespace. but it compiles from the repl, and not from the lein ring server command. it breaks in the lein ring server command after i switch from clojure 1.4 to clojure 1.5, but in the repl, it compiles with either dependency
17:45	hiredman	bhenry: have you cleared out target/classes/?
17:46	bhenry	not if lein clean doesn't do that.
17:46	bhenry	hiredman: ^^
17:47	hiredman	I dunno, if the directy exists delete it
17:47	bhenry	hiredman: target/classes is empty
17:47	hiredman	bhenry: what symbol is it?
17:48	hiredman	bhenry: how are you loading code in the repl?
17:48	hiredman	bhenry: do you have a pastebin of the stacktrace?
17:49	bitemyapp	bhenry: run lein clean, refheap the code, include the stacktrace.
17:54	bhenry	bitemyapp: here is the code: https://gist.github.com/bhenry/b0b77e4fab6b862b728f here is the stack: https://www.refheap.com/e0dc2bb00296b669e454871db
17:55	bhenry	if i C-c-k (nrepl in emacs) inside of either of those files, they compile fine with either version of clojure. but that stacktrace happens in the terminal with 1.5.1 but works fine with 1.4.0
17:56	bitemyapp	bhenry: show me a project.clj
17:56	bitemyapp	I need version numbers.
17:56	bitemyapp	and lein ring config.
17:57	hiredman	ah, you shouldn't do that
17:58	hiredman	but why it is doing that, I'm not sure, I bet lein ring is swallowing the exception loading *.config
17:58	hiredman	you should use clojure.java.io/resource
17:58	bhenry	bitemyapp: https://gist.github.com/bhenry/b0b77e4fab6b862b728f same link, but with new stuff.
17:59	bitemyapp	bhenry: that's not how you should do a config.
17:59	bitemyapp	bhenry: use this: https://github.com/weavejester/environ/
17:59	bitemyapp	bhenry: make it a plain clojure file, use whatever is in the environment, fallback to defaults.
18:00	bitemyapp	and hiredman is right, use cji/resource when you do need to load files, but you're doing configuration in general wrong anyway.
18:00	technomancy	https://twitter.com/mikerubits/status/392748169735323648
18:01	bitemyapp	technomancy: <3
18:02	bhenry	it's fair to have your opinion about something. i didn't write that, so i will not change it. something tells me that it's not the cause of my problem, though.
18:03	bhenry	if i did anything that expectedly only works in 1.4.0 and not 1.5.1 please let me know what it is (our other project on 1.5.1 has its configs set up the same way, and it works fine)
18:05	hiredman	bhenry: my guess is both your calls to slurp are throwing exceptions because the working directory of lein ring server isn't what you expect it to be, and lein ring server is somehow masking those exceptions
18:05	bitemyapp	bhenry: if something fails to compile and load, then the symbol referred from it will fail to exist.
18:05	bitemyapp	and what hiredman just said.
18:05	bitemyapp	un-jankifying your config solves this problem too.
18:06	hiredman	put in some printlns to verify the exception, then switch to io/resource
18:07	satshaba2	ok I want to use typed clojure
18:08	bitemyapp	satshaba2: cool!
18:08	satshaba2	but when I try to only type 1 function
18:08	bitemyapp	satshaba2: http://nathanic.org/posts/2013/typed-clojure-tour/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
18:08	satshaba2	it complains when it checks the rest
18:08	bitemyapp	satshaba2: you generally have to be explicit about typing everything in core.typed
18:08	satshaba2	haha, yes I've been reading it
18:08	satshaba2	huh ok. So it's all or nothing?
18:08	satshaba2	at what granularity?
18:08	satshaba2	name space?
18:09	dnolen	satshaba2: yes
18:09	bitemyapp	satshaba2: technically namespace, but you'll have to ^:no-check a bunch of stuff for it not to spread outside that namespace.
18:10	satshaba2	OK cool! thanks!
18:12	coventry	That blog post makes typed clojure look like a lot of work. The type for map is longer than a naive implementation of the function, for instance. Is it paying off for people.
18:12	coventry	?
18:13	bitemyapp	coventry: it's tedious compared to what I'm used to, but I'm still interesting in using it more.
18:13	bitemyapp	coventry: def-alias goes a long way too.
18:13	bhenry	bitemyapp: it correctly prints the result of the slurp statement right in the terminal from which i run `lein ring server`
18:15	bhenry	bitemyapp: i updated the gist with how i printed it. i can't see an explanation why it is running that just fine, but not finding it from crypto.
18:19	bitemyapp	bhenry: you shouldn't really be def'ing file operations like that either, should be a function or memoized fn.
18:19	mikerod	maven-shade-plugin changed all the timestamps in my uber jar. This caused all AOT clojure files to be re-compiled at startup. Made start up very slow. boo
18:20	mikerod	This took me a while to discover what the problem was.
18:20	bhenry	i've got guys that do this. all i'm trying to do is update dependencies. and don't know how to track down why this doesn't work in 1.5.1 but it works in 1.4.0 without issue.
18:20	bitemyapp	mikerod: nasty.
18:22	mikerod	bitemyapp: Yeah, I ended up using lein uberjar and didn't have the same issue.
18:22	mikerod	Then I noticed the timestamps.
18:25	TEttinger	bhenry, you saw that analytics.engine uses clojure 1.5.1 as a dep right?
18:26	bhenry	YES! that's why i need to get the project working with 1.5.1. we are beginning the move to make this standalone project a part of analytics-engine.
18:26	bhenry	TEttinger: ^
18:26	TEttinger	ah ok
18:27	bhenry	when I uncomment the 1.4.0 line in the project.clj everything goes back to working just fine.
18:28	TEttinger	did you link the full stacktrace yet?
18:55	glosoli	nrepl was so awesome until some retard started renaming :)
18:56	bitemyapp	glosoli: as much as I dislike the unnecessary rename, said retard is also maintaining your tools for you :)
18:57	glosoli	Just to make clear, and not to sound disrespectful, but is it maintenance when all he does now is fixing after shit made up by renaming ?
18:58	mgaare	if you liked nrepl 0.2, you can get it from marmalade and keep using that
18:59	glosoli	mgaare: Kinda looking forward to Cursive... :)
18:59	technomancy	nrepl.el is the new slime!
19:00	mgaare	glosoli: what is that?
19:00	TimMc	sveri: http://www.pairprogramwith.me/ has a big ol' list of pairing tools and services.
19:00	technomancy	which is to say, the new thing that will confuse newcomers as they try to navigate outdated documentation
19:00	glosoli	mgaare: IDE for Clojure :) based on Intellij :)
19:00	glosoli	technomancy: But you know what's cool now? at least Newcomers won't confuse the meaning of nrepl-emacs and nrepl lol
19:01	glosoli	sure they willl...
19:01	mgaare	ah, ok
19:01	technomancy	glosoli: I'm just glad I'm not stuck maintaining it
19:02	glosoli	technomancy: Yeah :)
19:02	mgaare	I don't mind the new name
19:04	bitemyapp	I'm ambivalent but think it's silly.
19:04	bitemyapp	it'll be nice once the dust clears just on account of being less ambiguous as to which component of nrepl one is referring to.
19:04	bitemyapp	the server or the client on Emacs.
19:05	bitemyapp	technomancy: I've had some people ask that I move faster on grom because they find grench too annoying to install btw.
19:05	technomancy	grom is your haskell one?
19:05	bitemyapp	technomancy: aye
19:06	technomancy	bitemyapp: is it the libffi or libreadline dependency that's annoying? or are people compiling the whole thing?
19:06	bitemyapp	technomancy: compiling the whole thing with opam, I think they find having to install all that obnoxious.
19:06	technomancy	why not use the bins?
19:06	bitemyapp	I don't care since I like having a working ocaml compiler + libs ready to go.
19:06	technomancy	yeah, opam takes ages
19:06	bitemyapp	technomancy: they aren't advertised obviously enough, apparently.
19:06	technomancy	huh
19:06	technomancy	thanks for telling me
19:07	bitemyapp	technomancy: no problem.
19:07	bitemyapp	technomancy: I look forward to doing a comparison between the two.
19:07	bitemyapp	I've used OCaml and Haskell but I've never had the chance to directly compare them.
19:08	Raynes	bitemyapp: Time is Money by You Me At Six
19:09	bitemyapp	Raynes: I'm listening to Black Boned Angel. this better be good.
19:12	technomancy	bitemyapp: these friends are macosecksists?
19:12	bitemyapp	technomancy: pretty sure.
19:13	technomancy	k, someone submitted a brew recipe fwiw
19:13	bitemyapp	if that compiles from scratch he'll still be pissed, but I'll let him know.
19:13	technomancy	heh; no idea but it wouldn't surprise me
19:13	technomancy	lolhomebrew
19:21	bitemyapp	technomancy: homebrew is pretty terrible.
19:21	bitemyapp	Raynes: okay that was good. Back to my black metal though.
19:32	satshaba2	any style tips on https://www.refheap.com/20083?
19:33	satshaba2	I've solved the problem, but did I do it in an idiomatic way
19:34	satshaba2	?
19:38	TEttinger	satshaba2, I'm not sure about using the same name for different symbols. like which "words" is it?
19:41	satshaba2	TEttinger: good point. Mostly I'm wondering if letfn is the right approach
19:41	satshaba2	I wish I had Haskell's `where`
19:42	satshaba2	could I make a macro for that ?
19:42	bitemyapp	satshaba2: please don't.
19:42	metactus	macro pariahs D:
19:42	metactus	/wrist
19:42	bitemyapp	satshaba2: your code is briefer than the math.combinatorics version, but I'm trying to figure out why yours is producing slightly different data.
19:43	satshaba2	hahaha
19:43	bitemyapp	it seems roughly equivalent to (combinations (set (mapcat concat words)) 3)
19:43	satshaba2	is it something in combinatorics? I was just trying to solve a short problem
19:44	brehaut	satshaba2: are you referring to where being after the body rather than let which is before, or the recursive definitions allowed by where?
19:44	satshaba2	yes
19:44	brehaut	(and letfn)
19:44	satshaba2	sorry, the former
19:44	satshaba2	the where being after the body
19:44	satshaba2	for me that's a cleaner read
19:44	brehaut	in haskell i agree
19:44	bitemyapp	in Clojure, not so much.
19:45	brehaut	clojure is mostly strict, so theres a certain clarity to let having the definitions before the body because that is when they are evaluated
19:45	satshaba2	ah I see
19:46	brehaut	haskell, where is semantically fine due to the pervasive non-strictness
19:46	satshaba2	interesting
19:46	satshaba2	so would that code be considered idiomatic?
19:46	satshaba2	and readable?
19:47	brehaut	satshaba2: sure. seems clean.
19:47	brehaut	satshaba2: some people might opt for a let rather than letfn
19:47	satshaba2	let with an fn?
19:47	brehaut	yeah
19:47	satshaba2	neat
19:47	brehaut	or let with a #( )
19:47	brehaut	letfn is a special case of let + fn because it allows the functions to be mutually recursive
19:48	satshaba2	really? I thought i was just a way of naming your fn so you could recur on it within that fn
19:48	brehaut	you can do that with fn
19:48	satshaba2	oh oh i see
19:48	brehaut	fn accepts a name
19:48	satshaba2	ah, cool!
19:48	brehaut	but (letfn [a … b …] …) a and b can recursive into each other
19:49	satshaba2	awesome. thanks a bunch!
19:49	brehaut	np
20:07	TEttinger	satshaba2, I'm a bit confused, is it supposed to have duplicates?
20:07	TEttinger	(for [a (words 0) b (words 1) c (words 2)] [a b c]) seems to work without producing duplicates
20:13	hyPiRion	(apply clojure.math.combinatorics/cartesian-product words) should also work fine.
20:25	dbsr	hey all, im having some trouble with using reduce / reduction correctly
20:26	dbsr	for this code: http://bpaste.net/show/142987/
20:27	dbsr	i would like to stop the iteration when the sum of the filter is > n, since n wouldnt be a perfect number at this point
20:28	dbsr	I dont understand how I can use reduction here, since if I put reduction at the start the function would no longer return the result of the n == sum condtion
20:28	TEttinger	sounds like a use for loop/recur, with a conditional
20:28	hyPiRion	sounds like take-while or something
20:29	TEttinger	or that
20:29	dbsr	TEttinger: ill have a look at the docs, I was asking because I understood 'one' shouldnt use for loops in clojure
20:31	TEttinger	not a for loop, loop/recur
20:31	TEttinger	but take-while is better I think
20:33	Morgawr	how would you do that with take-while?
20:33	Morgawr	you'd have to accumulate the sum
20:33	Morgawr	wouldn't you?
20:33	hyPiRion	shh on you
20:33	Morgawr	:(
20:33	hyPiRion	:p
20:33	Morgawr	w-w-was I wrong?
20:34	hyPiRion	no
20:34	rasmusto	you'd change the fn to have an accumulator, yea?
20:34	Morgawr	rasmusto: well yeah but it kind of defeats the point then
20:34	hyPiRion	well, you could probably use reductions, but that's be messy
20:34	rasmusto	Morgawr: what point is that?
20:35	Morgawr	rasmusto: being elegant and non-hacky
20:36	rasmusto	an inner loop/recur w/ an accumulator is a non-elegant hack?
20:36	Morgawr	more elegant than engineering an accumulator with take-while... or at least that's what I'd say
20:36	Morgawr	but not sure how you'd use an accumulator with take-while actually so I'm probably wrong
20:38	hyPiRion	dbsr: https://www.refheap.com/20085 is how I would've done it.
20:39	dbsr	how can I add to the total sum of proper divisors in a take while loop?
20:39	dbsr	ow, thanks hyPiRion ill have a look
20:40	dbsr	later, i like puzzling this out
20:40	dbsr	for now :d
20:40	hyPiRion	a take-while is probably a horrible fit in hindsight
20:41	dbsr	heh ok, what doc should i be reading instead?
20:41	hyPiRion	actually, there's probably a bug there. replace < with <= and you'll be fine.
20:43	dbsr	didnt know about ? in fn definitions heh
20:43	hyPiRion	it's a common idiom for functions returning true/false
20:43	dbsr	those are for truth conditions?
20:43	rasmusto	it's just a notation thing
20:44	hyPiRion	yeah, those you usually call isCondition and stuff in other languages
20:44	dbsr	cool heh
20:44	hyPiRion	and yeah, it's just notation
20:44	dbsr	and zero? is shorthand for (= 0 foo)
20:45	hyPiRion	yeah
20:45	hyPiRion	"shorthand", because it's actually longer
20:47	dbsr	anyhows, i think i get reduce now, thanks a lot hyPiRion
20:48	hyPiRion	np
20:50	rasmusto	hyPiRion: good example, I like that reduce + reduced can be like a take-while w/ some sort of state
20:50	hyPiRion	hmm, you made me think there
20:52	rasmusto	I have this weird example of doing something similar. I had think I had an impl using reduce before https://www.refheap.com/20086
20:52	rasmusto	by similar I mean not at all the same
20:53	rasmusto	and by impl I mean horrible code
20:55	Morgawr	(fn [n] (loop [ s (range 1 n) sum 0] (cond (> sum n) false (and (= sum n) (empty? s)) true (empty? s) false (zero? (mod n (first s))) (recur (rest s) (+ sum (first s))) :else (recur (rest s) sum))))
20:55	Morgawr	this is my solution :D
20:55	Morgawr	and it's terribly ugly haha
20:55	Morgawr	(re: perfect number)
20:58	hyPiRion	https://www.refheap.com/20087
20:59	Morgawr	hyPiRion: I'd love to actually pair that with filter as well
20:59	Morgawr	so you like.. walk the list, filter and reduce at the same time
20:59	Morgawr	and exit on false condition
21:00	hyPiRion	sounds like a kitchen sink
21:00	Morgawr	I don't think it's something that unusual
21:00	Morgawr	I mean, if you filter you already have to realize the whole list, right?
21:00	hyPiRion	no
21:00	hyPiRion	filter is lazy
21:00	rasmusto	reduce would, but you can "reduced" it
21:01	Morgawr	filter is not lazy...
21:01	Morgawr	or is it?
21:01	hyPiRion	,(filter even? (range))
21:01	clojurebot	(0 2 4 6 8 ...)
21:01	Morgawr	mmm
21:02	Morgawr	,(take 6 (filter even? (range)))
21:02	clojurebot	(0 2 4 6 8 ...)
21:02	jmonetta	hi guys
21:02	Morgawr	,(take 6 (filter even? (repeat 5))
21:02	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
21:02	Morgawr	^ ?
21:02	Morgawr	oh wait
21:02	Morgawr	derp
21:02	Morgawr	that never returns any value
21:02	Morgawr	sorry hyPiRion you're right, I'm just tired
21:02	Morgawr	I guess I'll head to bed, night
21:02	jmonetta	talking about laziness, can someone tell me why this takes 5 seconds instead of 2? (take 2 (map (fn [x] (Thread/sleep 1000) (* x 2)) (range 5)))
21:03	hyPiRion	$google fogus chunked lazy seq
21:03	lazybot	[fogus: De-chunkifying Sequences in Clojure] http://blog.fogus.me/2010/01/22/de-chunkifying-sequences-in-clojure/
21:03	hyPiRion	jmonetta: ^
21:03	jmonetta	thx!
21:05	rasmusto	,(time (doall (take 33 (map (fn [x] (Thread/sleep 10) (* x 2)) (range)))))
21:05	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 654.421377 msecs"\n(0 2 4 6 8 ...)
21:18	timvisher	,(apply < [[1 1 1] [1 1 2] [1 1 3] [1 1 4] [1 1 5] [1 1 6] [1 1 7] [1 1 8] [1 1 9]])
21:18	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
21:18	hyPiRion	sort perhaps?
21:18	timvisher	hmm. interesting. clojurescript says that's true
21:18	timvisher	but then says (apply < [[1 1 1] [1 1 2] [1 1 3] [1 1 4] [1 1 5] [1 1 6] [1 1 7] [1 1 8] [1 1 9] [1 1 10]]) is false
21:19	timvisher	but i guess that's undefined behavior
21:19	hyPiRion	oh, I'd guess that's lexicographically comparisons
21:19	timvisher	hyPiRion: I'm actually trying to assert that a set of maps ascend.
21:19	timvisher	using juxt
21:19	timvisher	but vectors don't seem to compare, unless you're sorting
21:19	timvisher	which is strange
21:20	timvisher	however, compare works fine
21:20	hyPiRion	could you use compare?
21:20	hyPiRion	as in
21:20	hyPiRion	ah
21:20	timvisher	but it's just strange that compare works but none of the other operators do
21:20	timvisher	but that's what i'll have to do. :\
21:22	timvisher	it's also a shame that compare isn't variable arity :(
21:28	timvisher	hyPiRion: that's annoying. :) https://gist.github.com/timvisher/7110708
21:28	timvisher	looks like it's working though. thanks for the help!
21:28	hyPiRion	Oooh, I see. Yeah, that would be annoying
21:29	hyPiRion	not sure what I helped you with, but you're welcome I guess :p
21:29	timvisher	meh. call it moral support. ;)
21:29	timvisher	going to the conj?
21:29	hyPiRion	yeah
21:30	timvisher	or is that morale support?
21:30	timvisher	is that even a phrase?
21:30	timvisher	i'm tired. :\
21:30	timvisher	nice! it's my first year.
21:30	timvisher	pretty excited. :)
21:30	hyPiRion	I think it's "moral support", but I'd guess the actual American/English people here would know better
21:31	timvisher	interesting. that's indeed right. i'll have to look up the etymology of that.
21:31	timvisher	has anyone heard of someone working on cljs-time (or some other name)?
21:32	hyPiRion	It's my first year too. Hopefully I'll be able to go on a yearly basis, but it's expensive to travel over the atlantic ocean =/
21:33	timvisher	lol. have you been to euroclojure?
21:33	hyPiRion	no, couldn't afford it because I wasted all my money on tickets to the US. heh
21:33	timvisher	meta
21:34	hyPiRion	There's a reason I don't study economics
21:39	gfredericks	I used to live in south carolina, and instead of driving a few hours to clojure/conj I flew across the country to clojure/west
21:40	brehaut	gfredericks: you must be a lisp programmer: value, over cost
21:40	hyPiRion	Aren't we all.
21:41	hyPiRion	I wonder when the schedule turns up.
21:41	brehaut	(apologies to perlis)
21:41	gfredericks	this is like my third year in a row missing clojure/conj?
21:42	brehaut	gfredericks: think of the positives; we can hang out on #clojure and amalloy wont be here to correct us
21:43	hyPiRion	brehaut: Oh, he will if you summon him
21:43	gfredericks	amalloy is going too?
21:43	brehaut	i have no idea
21:43	gfredericks	he never goes to conferences
21:43	brehaut	gfredericks: i think you are thinking of me
21:43	gfredericks	brehaut: no you never go to conferences but it doesn't surprise anybody
21:43	brehaut	this is true
21:54	xeqi	hyPiRion: the conj schedule? or just the talk list?
21:54	hyPiRion	xeqi: the talks, but they come out at the same time, don't they?
21:55	xeqi	hyPiRion: http://lanyrd.com/2013/clojureconj/schedule/
21:55	hyPiRion	:o
21:56	hyPiRion	I see Rich have his "To Better Do" app once again
21:56	hyPiRion	(inc xeqi)
21:56	lazybot	⇒ 10
22:01	amalloy	what? brehaut, let me correct you: i won't be at the conj
22:02	bitemyapp	he doesn't need to be at the conj to correct you.
22:03	bitemyapp	he's a part of the space time continuum. A fundamental particle.
22:03	bitemyapp	if you deref a real-life atom, one of the values will be amalloy, telling you you're doing it wrong.
22:03	gfredericks	~amalloy
22:03	clojurebot	amalloy is <amalloy> just use juxt, it'll be great
22:04	marcopolo2	rkneufeld: yt?
22:04	llasram	When you write a function which accepts a function and returns a function which returns a function, the result of calling that function is amalloy
22:04	bitemyapp	llasram: so most Haskell code is just a doppelganger for amalloy?
22:05	amalloy	i should /part now and forever, and let the myth keep growing
22:05	bitemyapp	The fire rises!
22:05	gfredericks	in ten years we'll have bitter factions just based on how to pronounce the first syllable in his nick
22:06	amalloy	and the faction who thinks being bitter is a form of worship
22:06	bitemyapp	wars between the ay-ists and ah-ists will bleed into the non-programming world. World War 3 will be a resource war fought in Africa to feed the opposing factions from those split over how to pronounce the first 'a' in amalloy.
22:07	bitemyapp	and with that, I'm off to Clojure Dojo. hope I see some of you there :)
22:10	cespare	How do I refer to the objects, bytes, etc (that I use inside a normal function for type hinting like ^objects, ^bytes) inside a macro? I'm basically doing this: http://stackoverflow.com/a/11920022
22:10	cespare	in that code he's using `BufferedImage -- how do I refer to objects instead?
22:12	gfredericks	,`objects
22:12	clojurebot	sandbox/objects
22:12	gfredericks	hm
22:12	gfredericks	,'objects maybe
22:12	clojurebot	objects
22:13	gfredericks	((fn [^objects a] (aget a 0)) (into-array Object [7]))
22:13	gfredericks	'((fn [^objects a] (aget a 0)) (into-array Object [7]))
22:13	gfredericks	aaaah
22:13	gfredericks	,((fn [^objects a] (aget a 0)) (into-array Object [7]))
22:13	clojurebot	7
22:13	gfredericks	,((fn [^objects a] (aget a 0)) (into-array Long [7]))
22:13	clojurebot	7
22:13	gfredericks	,((fn [^objects a] (aget a 0)) (into-array Long/TYPE [7]))
22:13	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: [J cannot be cast to [Ljava.lang.Object;>
22:13	gfredericks	phew it worked
22:15	marcopolo2	rkneufeld: ping
22:15	rkneufeld	Hey
22:15	cespare	gfredericks: erm, what's the conclusion?
22:15	marcopolo2	rkneufeld: Cool, I don't wanna use a lot of your time
22:16	marcopolo2	rkneufeld: I'm glad you wanna make sure we does this right, I respect that
22:16	marcopolo2	rkneufeld: I'm still new to pedestal so I don't quite understand all of it yet
22:16	cespare	gfredericks: Whether I do `objects or 'objects, I get a classcastexception evaluating the macro
22:16	marcopolo2	rkneufeld: can you briefly explain what [:build :triggers] does?
22:20	gfredericks	cespare: what's your code look like?
22:20	gfredericks	'objects is what it should be
22:26	cespare	gfredericks: well, i ended up doing something different with the code anyway. I don't have something handy to show you atm
22:26	cespare	I don't really understand the SO answer from amalloy, though.
22:27	cespare	Does the type hint get evaluated when the macro is evaluated, even if it's in a syntax quite?
22:27	cespare	*quote
22:29	cespare	oh, i see. ^ is a reader macro.
22:30	gfredericks	yeah; you need the metadata to make its way through the macroexpansion into the compilation phase
22:30	gfredericks	using ^ just gets metadata attached to the symbols in the macro definition, while you need it to be on the symbols _passed to_ the macro and returned from it
22:30	gfredericks	...crazy subtle distinction
22:55	bhenry	bitemyapp: hiredman: i switched to clojure.java.io/resource. here is the repl working, and the lein-ring which i believe just runs the app, throwing the error in the stacktrace and pointing at config.clj https://gist.github.com/bhenry/f42daf5ef4ec6b448228
22:55	bhenry	uuuh, i said that wrong
23:13	`cbp	bitemyapp: ping
23:24	`cbp	:-(