#clojure – 2013-10-01

2013-10-01

00:23	akurilin	Has anybody figured out how to do a parameterized SQL IN clause without using a server-specific data structure such as PG arrays?
00:26	`cbp	damn reql is not very pleasant to write [an implementation of]
00:29	Raynes	ambrosebs: Is Bronsa doing the whole contributors agreement for contributions, etc, etc, that is necessary for this to eventually become a part of Clojure? It's interesting, but I sure hope that the thing is actually intended to hopefully replace Clojure's compiler at some point, otherwise it just makes me sad.
00:30	Raynes	The whole project doesn't even have a license or a mention of one.
00:30	Raynes	Which is worrisome.
00:32	Raynes	Oh, I guess you didn't really expect that.
00:33	Raynes	"Officially replacing the JVM compiler won't happen any time soon. It will take years of experimentation with compilers like Clojurescript and CinC to really nail the "Clojure-in-Clojure" style compilers."
00:33	Raynes	Well, that sucks.
00:33	ambrosebs	Raynes: Well it's the ultimate breaking change isn't it?
00:33	ambrosebs	I don't see anyone taking it lightly
00:34	ambrosebs	Raynes: yes, I asked Bronsa to organise offering CinC to contrib.
00:35	Raynes	ambrosebs: Yes, I agree. I was just curious about what the intentions of the funding you're trying to get and his project was. I couldn't tell if it was a "we should fund this cool stepping stone to CinC by this awesome guy, but it is unlikely to ever actually replace Clojure's compiler" vs a "let's help get CinC done, in Clojure, etc"
00:35	ambrosebs	Raynes: he's confirming with the original author of CinC, who has already said multiple times (but quite awhile ago) that it's going to go to contrib.
00:35	Raynes	Well, that's good news.
00:35	Raynes	That's probably the only project I'm actually happy to see go to contrib. :D
00:36	ambrosebs	Raynes: :D
00:36	ambrosebs	Raynes: throwing money to CinC can only possibly be a good thing IMO
00:36	ambrosebs	Raynes: just an awesome project
00:36	ambrosebs	Raynes: and IMO Bronsa is on a roll, just needs more pushing :)
00:36	Raynes	Absolutely! Either reason for funding that I listed above was totally valid.
00:37	ambrosebs	yes all of the above
00:37	Raynes	Bronsa is a cool chap, indeed.
00:37	ambrosebs	and a selfish reason, I'm waist deep in analysis all day every day.
00:38	ambrosebs	so it's also for me.
00:38	ambrosebs	I'd guess no-one uses JVM analyser more than me.
00:39	Raynes	:p
00:39	ambrosebs	Raynes: also, CinC is a very important piece of standardised AST representation across clojure implementations
00:39	ambrosebs	Raynes: as in, we all need to sit down and work it out.
00:40	Raynes	Kidnap Rich at the next conj?
00:40	technomancy	also: it doesn't have to "officially" replace the java compiler for you to use it
00:41	Raynes	Ugh.
00:41	ambrosebs	technomancy: exactly. I want the dependency, wherever it is.
00:41	technomancy	probably a lot to be learned from rubinius, pypy, etc here
00:42	Raynes	It's great for ambrosebs, but the prospect of multiple popular Clojure compilers makes me nauseous beyond that.
00:43	`cbp	callen: ping
00:43	ambrosebs	Raynes: yes, we should revolt against Compiler.java :)
00:44	ambrosebs	Raynes: the java compiler hasn't changed in years, so it's not like we'll have multiple moving targets.
00:44	Raynes	ambrosebs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsnKkXFQYqU
00:44	ambrosebs	:)
00:44	Raynes	(this was the first live band I ever saw, opening for KMFDM, amusingly)
00:45	Raynes	(neither band I was familiar with, I was taken to the show rather spontaneously)
00:46	glosoli	Anyone here familiar with Emacs and jumping into Java sources from Clojure interop ?
00:46	glosoli	I am kinda confused if it's something I am missing in my config or what, but any time I try to jump into Java class, I get this http://bpaste.net/show/i18oeBXJ7aZkKpQTNmyL/
00:47	callen	`cbp: yes dear?
00:52	ivan	has anyone build La Clojure recently? IDEA seems to be not seeing any sources in the la-clojure/jps-plugin/src/org/jetbrains/jps/clojure/build/ folder
00:52	akhudek	how does one return javascript null from a clojure function?
00:52	akhudek	I thought it was js/null, but that's giving some weird null$
00:53	`cbp	callen: you prolly know reql right? and it's pretty much concatenating methods on an object which is not really clojure style i guess. Would it be ok to "redefine" clojure.core functions and macros to get a similar effect and then maybe add a convenience macro that would qualify those functions used inside of it with the corresponding namespace?
00:53	ambrosebs	akhudek: it's it just nil?
00:53	ambrosebs	akhudek: oh nvm read that wrong.
00:54	ambrosebs	akhudek: do you mean in cljs?
00:54	akhudek	yeah, we have cljs code that needs to return an actual null
00:54	akhudek	rather than nil
00:56	akhudek	oh, nevermind, you are right, it is nil
00:56	`cbp	callen: such that you could do something like (-> (db "test) (table "users") (filter…)) but none of those would be the clojure.core functions
00:56	`cbp	that wrapped in a (dsl macro or something
01:00	callen	`cbp: I don't know reql.
01:01	`cbp	callen: what I wrote would be like db('test').table('users').filter(..) on python, that's pretty much reql and behind it is all the protobuf insanity
01:05	callen	`cbp: oh sorry forgot rethinkdb's DSL was called reql
01:06	`cbp	:-o
01:08	callen	`cbp: I think you should do it like Korma
01:08	callen	`cbp: build up maps incrementally with db, table, filter functions
01:08	callen	`cbp: then have an executor fn for actually dispatching it.
01:11	`cbp	callen: Right now I have https://www.refheap.com/19196
01:11	`cbp	is that ok?
01:14	callen	`cbp: I was thinking of starting from a plain map format, then turning it into protobuf in the executor
01:15	callen	`cbp: to keep those worlds separate.
01:16	`cbp	callen: mmk
01:53	nonuby	is there a lein command to see version number of a package e.g. `lein tell-me-stable-version-available-of midje` returns 1.5.1
01:57	callen	nonuby: search clojars?
01:58	nonuby	meh, means leaving command line, may something similar to node.js `npm install library-name --save` that adds to the project.clj deps vector
02:05	rasmusto	nonuby: I wonder if there's a lein plugin for it
02:06	Raynes	$latest midje
02:06	lazybot	[midje "1.6-beta1"] -- https://clojars.org/midje
02:06	Raynes	nonuby: ^
02:06	Raynes	Won't work for things not on clojars.
02:06	Raynes	But it exists nontheless.
02:08	nonuby	$latest compojure
02:08	lazybot	[compojure "1.1.5"] -- https://clojars.org/compojure
02:08	nonuby	Raynes, nice! :)
02:09	holo	hi
02:12	holo	guys/girls, check this new library: https://github.com/ccfontes/namban . It converts text between hiragana / katakana / romaji (hepburn) / kunrei-shiki. I hope you like it. It's still half quality though
02:13	rhg135	There are no girls on irc afaik
02:14	holo	hey, you never know
02:15	holo	btw, don't know why but i uploaded a very old version.. how is it possible? that's 2 weeks old source or something
02:16	nonuby	rhg135, ssshhh... are you trying to get a conference cancelled!
02:16	glosoli	Damn it got me paranoid, is Emacs nREPL mode supposed to M-. jump into java source files, or this is just my imagination ?
02:16	rhg135	Right...
02:22	tak	/?
02:22	holo	nie
02:32	holo	ok, the most recent version is there now
02:36	seancorfield	Raynes: seems like you could easily extend $latest to also handle Maven Central for org.clojure stuff too?
02:36	seancorfield	$latest java.jdbc
02:36	lazybot	No project by this name exists on clojars.
02:38	seancorfield	url: http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cg%3A%22org.clojure%22%20a%3A%22java.jdbc%22
02:38	seancorfield	you could pull the latest version from that...?
02:40	seancorfield	rhg135: depends on which channel you're in... several of the channels i've been hanging out in lately have "girls"... probably more accurate to say that clojure's community is more swm-dominated than many other tech communities... but i hope we can change that...
02:41	mtp	there aren't guys on irc either
02:41	mtp	only nicknames
02:41	rhg135	not rly, on most chans im in theres no girls
02:41	mtp	go to better channels
02:42	rhg135	the most notable ones, here #openjailbreak and #teamgelato
02:42	rhg135	i have seen girls but the ratio is like 1:1000
02:42	mtp	my condolences
02:42	mtp	i only see nicknames
02:43	rhg135	fair enough
02:43	mtp	does this nickname have a dick or a vagina? wait, who cares
02:43	mtp	am i trying to get laid on irc or talk about programming
02:43	rhg135	i usually assume a guy until proven otherwise
02:43	nonuby	why does it matter? its shouldnt even factor in, we're here discussing/debating tech, gender is irrelevant, its annoying how programmers have taken it on themselves to declare this a problem (and the sad action that folllow, twitter memes, conference cancellations, discount tickets for female participates etc..)
02:43	gws	http://cdn.meme.li/i/con66.jpg
02:44	rhg135	ya idc
02:44	nonuby	When was the last time you hear, Im not getting on that Delta flight - 80% of cabin crew are female!
02:44	rhg135	i just say ppl
02:45	rhg135	not 'guys an girls'
02:45	nonuby	exactly
02:45	mtp	nonuby‘ i'm not getting on the flight because heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible
02:45	holo	conference cancellations?
02:46	holo	oh ok
02:47	nonuby	i think britruby was one of them, then there was the incident at pycon because someone told their friend a joke and someone overheard and got swept away in the equality wars, and several others incidents seem to flash by twitter in past few months
02:48	holo	nonuby, following that logic, did you get into the kinds of studies where >80% of girls are at?
02:49	nonuby	holo, not sure I follow.
02:49	dissipate	holo, what, like psychology?
02:49	holo	you know, language studies … yes psychology
02:51	nonuby	if I want to study psychology I dont gender would have any influence on admission to course
02:51	nonuby	I dont -> I doubt
02:51	dissipate	psychology... a 1 way ticket to working as a barista in Starbucks
02:51	holo	haha
03:04	wei_	I'm using :java-source-paths and it's compiling the java source every run. Is there a way for leiningen to tell if it hasn't changed?
03:04	wei_	example to illustrate the issue: https://github.com/yayitswei/leinwithjava
03:05	nonuby	$latest clj-http
03:05	lazybot	[clj-http "0.7.7"] -- https://clojars.org/clj-http
03:21	Raynes	seancorfield: I imagine it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Just that there are much fewer maven-only Clojure repos than there are non-maven-only.
03:38	seancorfield	you could search maven if clojars has no results :)
03:39	seancorfield	it would be a nice way to show the contrib libs
03:39	seancorfield	i guess i could send you a pull request? what's the repo link?
03:47	dcunit3d	anyone used quil before (clj processing)
03:58	zanes	Trying to get cljs working with core.async. Creating a channel yields an error of the following form. Thoughts? var c_12392 = <my namespace>.chan.call(null);
03:59	john2x	dcunit3d: I tried it once, but just as a learning exercise..
04:37	ambrosebs	is there a function to get the root value of a var?
04:37	zanes	Does lein no longer install to .m2 when you lein install?
04:42	deg	ambrosebs: I don't know of any clean way, but you could pass identity to alter-var-root.
04:48	amalloy	$findfn #'inc inc
04:48	lazybot	[clojure.core/deref clojure.core/var-get]
04:49	amalloy	ambrosebs: lazybot doesn't think such a function exists
04:51	ambrosebs	amalloy: again a sick usage of findfn.
04:52	ambrosebs	I just wanted the root binding of a single var so I derefed it an def'ed the result.
04:52	ambrosebs	(it's a dynamic var)
04:58	wei_	zanes: what's the actual error you're getting
04:59	zanes	wei_: Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'call' of undefined
05:00	wei_	are you using go blocks?
05:00	zanes	Yes.
05:00	wei_	clojurescript doesn't have <!!
05:00	zanes	I'm not using <!!.
05:01	wei_	not sure then, sorry. that was my problem initially, but I've since got it working
05:02	zanes	What version of clojurescript and core.async are you using? Can I see your project.clj?
05:04	zanes	Oh wow. Is that just the error you get if you reference an undefined variable?
05:05	ddellacosta	zanes: I see that error a lot when I have a typo and I'm trying to call a function that doesn't exist, or if I am trying to call a var as a function that is not a function, etc.
05:05	zanes	(I didn't :refer 'chan'.)
05:06	ddellacosta	ah, there ya go. :-)
05:06	zanes	That's an incredibly unhelpful error.
05:06	zanes	ddellacosta: Thanks anyway.
05:07	ddellacosta	zanes: I find that, in those cases, it is really useful to actually look at the JS that is getting produced.
05:07	ddellacosta	zanes: if you look at the JS, you'll see that what you have is an object that is calling the "call" property as a function. And so when it's not working, it's pretty clear--if you look at the JS--what is happening.
05:08	ddellacosta	not ideal I suppose, but you know, on the other hand you're able to write lisp code for browser dev so, tradeoffs.
05:09	zanes	Oh, totally. It's just unfortunate.
05:09	jave	I have a funny problem with a mixed java/clojure project
05:10	llasram	Funny haha?
05:10	jave	I have a configuration atom that is loaded from a file. It works well in a dev env, but packaged in a jar, the configuration is mysteriously lost
05:11	jave	more or less this code with some tweaks: https://github.com/jave/btc-coffee/blob/master/src/btc_coffee/core.clj
05:12	jave	so basically i exposed the load-config fn with gen-class to java. Java calls it, but somehow the atom resets
05:13	jave	(i havent pushed the java interop code yet because its too ugly for human eyes)
05:15	llasram	jave: By "expose ... with gen-class", you mean you modify your :gen-class to expose the function as a method?
05:15	jave	as static
05:16	jave	#^{:static true} [loadConfig [String] void ]
05:16	llasram	Ok. FYI, if you control the Java side, you can just use the Java Clojure API to invoke arbitrary Clojure functions
05:16	jave	I also tested this: (GET "/btc-coffee/reload-config" [] (fn [r] (-loadConfig "/tmp/btc-coffee.clj")))
05:17	jave	and if i call loadConfig again, the config doesnt reset
05:17	jave	so its overall pretty odd
05:18	jave	llasram: but then a call gets to be pretty long-winded right?
05:18	llasram	I'm not quite following. Your `load-config` function calls `reset!`, which will, well reset the value of the config atom
05:19	jave	reset! just ignores the previous value, which is what i want
05:19	jave	or did i miss something?
05:19	llasram	jave: Not really (long-winded). Well, no more than any other Java
05:20	llasram	Yes... I'm just not following either what you're seeing or expect to see :-)
05:20	zanes	ddellacosta: Hmm. Now it seems to think cljs.core.keyword_identical_QMARK_ is undefined. Ever seen that one?
05:20	ddellacosta	zanes: that is indeed a new one to me.
05:21	ddellacosta	what is the clojurescript? if you put it in a refheap I'll take a look
05:21	jave	llasram: I expect @config to hold my configuration data after loadConfig is called. its slurped from a file.
05:22	llasram	jave: "if i call loadConfig again, the config doesnt reset" <- I mean, it calls `reset!`. What does and do you expect to happen
05:22	jave	llasram: okay, i seem to have overloaded the word "reset" confusingly. sorry
05:22	zanes	ddellacosta: refheap, eh? Is gist not cool any more?
05:23	jave	llasram: so, in java I do: btc_coffee.core.loadConfig(btcConf);
05:23	ddellacosta	zanes: ah, gist is fine too. :-) I just know a lot of folks on here use refheap, since it was built by "one of us."
05:23	ddellacosta	or, "some of us" I guess
05:23	jave	llasram: afterwards I expect @config to be { blablabla }
05:23	jave	llasram: instead it is {}
05:24	zanes	ddellacosta: https://gist.github.com/d3f1d0ca66dabcab70f4
05:25	llasram	jave: Ah, ok. Hmm. No obvious ideas, I'm afraid. If you're not getting an exception, can only assume everything is wired up right. Path you're passing contains what you think it does?
05:25	jave	llasram: path verified yes
05:25	ddellacosta	zanes: what versions of stuff are you using, the latest?
05:26	ddellacosta	zanes: and, any idea which line is the one that makes it barf?
05:26	zanes	ddellacosta: I think I'm using latest core.async (I had to copy it to .m2 manually).
05:26	zanes	ddellacosta: Using cljs "0.0-1896".
05:27	ddellacosta	zanes: can you tell me the exact core.async version?
05:27	zanes	ddellacosta: It's not an actual release. Just master.
05:28	ddellacosta	hmm…I might try sticking with a specific version if I were you, just to be on the safe side
05:29	ddellacosta	zanes: hold on, I'm going to try your code locally
05:29	sm0ke	one quick weird question... can i kill a (go) or (future) block?
05:30	sm0ke	i want this because the block is waiting on a socket...and i cant set conditional for quitting the block
05:31	ddellacosta	zanes: also, I'm not sure what you're trying to do--why are you putting a value into a channel in one go block, and then taking the value out in the next? that log line is not going to do anything I don't think
05:31	llasram	sm0ke: If you've still got the future object, you can try to `future-cancel` it
05:31	zanes	Why wouldn't that work?
05:31	ddellacosta	zanes: go blocks return a channel
05:32	sm0ke	llasram: what do you mean by try? its not sure shot?
05:33	zanes	ddellacosta: Okay, fine, but it ought to have just logged the channel, no?
05:34	zanes	ddellacosta: Rather than dying horribly?
05:34	ddellacosta	zanes: not sure yet, but I suppose not on the dying horribly. :-)
05:34	ddellacosta	hold on, setting something up now
05:34	zanes	ddellacosta: Anyway, moving back to the latest stable core.async fixed it.
05:34	ddellacosta	zanes: ah
05:34	ddellacosta	zanes: and what does it give you in the console ?
05:35	ddellacosta	now I'm curious
05:35	zanes	ddellacosta: The channel.
05:35	ddellacosta	zanes: ah, haha. Well, there ya go--at least it's doing something now.
05:36	zanes	Yeah, I'm happy. I suppose there's an art to diagnosing cljs problems by inspecting the js that I'll have to work on.
05:37	ddellacosta	zanes: I've just done a ton of it 'cause I write a lot of CLJS. It's less an art (in my case at least) than a, "oh, I've seen that ten times, I realize it means X" kinda thing
05:39	zanes	What are you doing with it (CLJS)?
05:41	ddellacosta	zanes: building an entire front-end for our legal software startup.
05:44	zanes	Ooo.
05:49	deg	I'm looking for a simple example of using enlive (or any other lib) to tweak some html. I need to find a node <script src="xyz.js"> and convert it to <script src="abc.js">, but I'm getting lost in the enlive docs.
05:53	ddellacosta	deg: what you want is something like (emit* (at (html-resource "somefile.html") [:script] (set-attr :src "abc.js")))
05:54	ddellacosta	deg: but depends on your context. The confusing thing about enlive is how it loads up html, turns it into data structures, and makes it back into html. Well, that's one confusing thing about enlive...
05:54	ddellacosta	deg: if you want to give me a specific example in gist/refheap form I'll take a look
05:54	deg	Thanks. I have multiple script nodes in the html. How do I select only the one where src=xyz.js?
05:55	ddellacosta	deg: ah, right…that will require you to do something like [[(html/attr= :src "xyz.js")]]…not sure about the exact syntax
05:56	ddellacosta	deg: to be clear, that would replace the above, where I have [:script]
05:56	deg	Hmm, so looks like I'm pretty close. I found attr=, but must not have the syntax right yet. It compiles, but doesn't do anything yet.
05:57	ddellacosta	deg: the thing that is a bit confusing about the matchers is that you need double brackets [[]] (vector in a vector I guess)
05:58	ddellacosta	deg: don't know if that's your problem, but it has messed me up in the past.
05:58	deg	That's probably it. I'll play for a few minutes and post a refheap if I'm still stuck. thanks.
06:00	ddellacosta	deg: np, good luck!
06:06	deg	ddellacosta: Yeah, feeling dumb here, but still lost. Here's what I've got: https://www.refheap.com/19201
06:06	ddellacosta	deg: okay, one sec
06:16	ddellacosta	deg: as always, the problem is getting stuff in and out of enlive properly
06:16	ddellacosta	sorry, one sec, preparing example
06:17	deg	ok
06:19	ddellacosta	for example: (html/at (html/xml-resource (clojure.java.io/resource "public/foo.html")) [[:script (html/attr= :src "js/xyz.js")]] (html/set-attr :src "js/abc.js"))
06:19	ddellacosta	deg: now let me try with template
06:20	ddellacosta	deg: okay, right--template returns a seq of strings, so you have to do something like this to realize it: (doall ((html/template "public/foo.html" [] [[:script (html/attr= :src "js/xyz.js")]] (html/set-attr :src "js/abc.js"))))
06:21	ddellacosta	deg: I think I'm not doing something completely idiomatic there w/r/t enlive, but that will work at least.
06:22	ddellacosta	deg: one thing about template, you don't need to pass it the resource, just a string pointer to the file.
06:22	ddellacosta	deg: …which by default it will assume is in the resources dir of your project.
06:23	ddellacosta	deg: you may want to try using deftemplate instead, as it's meant to return a function that you will call with values--that is more idiomatic compared to what I showed you above.
06:24	ddellacosta	deg: (html/deftemplate swap-js "public/foo.html" [] [[:script (html/attr= :src "js/xyz.js")]] (html/set-attr :src "js/abc.js"))
06:24	ddellacosta	deg: then you can do (swap-js)
06:25	ddellacosta	deg: I should write all of this up so there is a cookbook for enlive. It's really hard to get going with that library, but it's promoted as the one to start with.
06:27	deg	(got called away; back now)
06:28	deg	I switched to template instead of deftemplate because I want an anonymous function.
06:29	ddellacosta	deg: ah, okay, in that case you can just use the template example I gave you I guess.
06:29	deg	My use case is a set of websites that each have dev and production versions. I only want to maintain one copy, so need to inject the dev cruft into each one.
06:30	ddellacosta	deg: ah, gotcha. I did something similar at one point, using exactly this kind of strategy.
06:30	ddellacosta	but, why do you want an anon function?
06:31	deg	I don't want to name the template for each page; just want to map over all the sites, generating the dev sites.
06:32	ambrosebs	I've used CinC to customise macroexpansion and I don't ever want to go back http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2zts1hW19k
06:32	ddellacosta	deg: sorta understand, but couldn't you just pass in your data to the same template?
06:33	deg	Hmm, yes, you are right I think. I came from a different mindset and haven't yet really grokked that enlive is creating templates rather than doing immediate html conversions.
06:33	arnabdeka	Hi guys. New to clojure. In the REPL (both in nrepl inside emacs, or in lein repl) Trying to use repl-utils:
06:34	arnabdeka	(require 'clojure.contrib.repl-utils)
06:34	deg	Basically, enlive is huge overkill for what I was doing, and I'm not fully taking advantage of it. Are there any good enlive tutorials anywhere?
06:34	arnabdeka	And the error I get is: FileNotFoundException Could not locate clojure/contrib/repl_utils__init.class or clojure/contrib/repl_utils.clj on classpath: clojure.lang.RT.load (RT.java:443)
06:34	arnabdeka	Does repl-utils not come as part of clojure install (do I need to download separately)?
06:34	ddellacosta	ambrosebs: super cool. Will have to watch it again before I really get it, but definitely seems much simpler using CinC...nice
06:35	ambrosebs	ddellacosta: it's badass
06:35	ddellacosta	deg: did you see David Nolen's? It's got some good stuff: https://github.com/swannodette/enlive-tutorial
06:36	deg	ddellacosta: Yes, looked quickly at that one, but only skimmed looking for my exact case. Didn't find a match in two minutes and moved on. Will read it again.
06:36	deg	Also, wondering now where I first found the code that introduced me to enlive. It gave me the (io/resource ..) stuff. Looks like it was an over-haired example.
06:36	ddellacosta	deg: yeah, there isn't much in the way of "cookbook" kind of resources, unfortunately--and the API docs (are there API docs?) are lacking. I mostly find myself reading the code to figure out how to do stuff.
06:37	chord	ok guys
06:37	deg	Yeah, I know the feeling. Was hoping to avoid it here 'cuz this is a really minor side-task from where I want to be focusing.
06:37	chord	here is what i've learned
06:38	chord	starcraft 2 has a delaunay triangulation for its navigation mesh on which A* followed by a funnel filter is done
06:39	chord	but how does it know a fat thor can't fit through a tiny space
06:39	chord	come on guys someone here has to be an expert on pathfinding
06:39	chord	give me hints
06:40	chord	you guys are still shunning me?
06:40	chord	is anyone going to talk to me?
06:41	ddellacosta	arnabdeka: sorry I'm not sure, but I think a lot of the contrib stuff has gotten replaced with more recent libs. What are you trying to do specifically?
06:41	arnabdeka	@ddellacosta Just trying to use show/source etc. (reading Joy of Clojure)
06:42	ddellacosta	arnabdeka: ooh, you don't need anything for source, that's part of clojure.repl, which is loaded as soon as you start up a repl
06:42	ddellacosta	arnabdeka: as far as show, I don't know that--what does it do?
06:44	arnabdeka	According to JoC: "The clojure-contrib library also has a function show in the clojure.contrib.repl-utils namespace that allows for more useful printouts of class members than we show using for."
06:44	ddellacosta	arnabdeka: ah, this is handy: http://dev.clojure.org/plugins/viewsource/viewpagesrc.action?pageId=2687076
06:46	ddellacosta	arnabdeka: according to that, "reflect" is what you want: http://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.reflect-api.html
06:46	ddellacosta	(for show replacement)
06:46	arnabdeka	Ah that explains it. Thanks @ddellacosta - trying to figure reflect out now.
06:46	ddellacosta	arnabdeka: np, best of luck.
06:52	chord	i hate you all
06:52	chord	I put in all this effort trying to understand starcraft 2's path finding
06:52	chord	and you all don't help me
06:52	chord	you all ignore me
06:52	chord	you all hate starcraft
06:59	chord	i hate you all for that
07:22	chord	who here is dumb and not stupid
07:32	sm0ke	hello can i read from a core.async channel with timeout?
07:34	jonasen	sm0ke: yes you can.. take a look at alt! and alts!
07:35	sm0ke	jonasen: aha nice..a timeout block with alts inside..a little bit verbose but
07:36	milanj	hi, having issues with macros and namespaces/symbols
07:36	milanj	why is
07:36	milanj	if you are in namespace user
07:36	milanj	(= 'user/foo 'user/foo) => true
07:36	milanj	(= 'foo 'user/foo) => false
07:40	clgv	milanj: because you explicitly specify the symbols and there is no resolving of them
07:41	clgv	try (= `foo 'user/foo) in namespace "user"
07:43	milanj	cool, thanks
07:43	milanj	I was expecting CL behavior, need to read more about clojure symbols
07:44	clgv	is there a guide on how to add custom components to support seesaws functions?
07:44	clgv	,'user
07:44	clojurebot	user
07:44	clgv	,`foo
07:44	clojurebot	sandbox/foo
07:44	clgv	,'foo
07:44	clojurebot	foo
07:48	milanj	clgv, thanks
07:48	deg	ddellacosta: Ok, looking now to move to deftemplate from template. Not 100% clear of the semantics. In yoour swap-js example above, how can I parameterize "public/foo.html" so I can use the same template on multiple pages?
08:02	ddellacosta	deg: sorry, was offline. Ah, so you want to pass in the template itself, huh…yah, that may be the one thing that deftemplate isn't going to help you with, as it defines a function with the html resource loaded already.
08:03	jonasen	sm0ke: more like (alts! (timeout 1000) your-chan), but maybe that's what you meant
08:06	jonasen	sm0ke: or really (alts! [(timeout 1000) your-chan])
08:10	deg	ddellacosta: Ok, or maybe I'm just asking the wrong question. I want to apply the same transformation to multiple web pages. In that context, are my web pages always the enlive templates, or is there a way to flip the logic?
08:10	deg	ddellacosta: Or, maybe the right question is: what is the correct lib to define a transform to be applied to many web pages?
08:35	dnolen	jonasen: cljsfiddle being able to load anyone else's namespace is pretty sweet!
08:36	jonasen	dnolen: thanks
08:38	jonasen	dnolen: it also supports datomic style ?as-of=<date> so you can get real permalinks. Though I haven't really exposed that feature in the ui yet
08:38	dnolen	jonasen: whoa
08:38	dnolen	jonasen: awesome
08:38	jonasen	dnolen: the idea is that if you depend on someone elses code they can't mess with your fiddle even if they tried
08:38	dnolen	jonasen: yes
09:19	oholiab	hello, if I've got a record defined and one of the fields is "optional", which of the following ways is considered better to do: 1) apply the fields from a map so that the optional remains nil or 2) leave the field out and assoc it in afterwards
09:19	oholiab	or 3) ????
09:19	oholiab	I'm stuck as to what is the "right" thing to do
09:19	oholiab	or at least the most sensible
09:21	vijaykiran	oholiab: depends on the domain I guess e.g. is not having the :optional-attr and {:optional-attr nil} mean the same ?
09:24	oholiab	vijaykiran: it's kind of a design question because in my particular case that I'm working on I can solve the problem in another way in that I can make the optional part mandatory and it just makes the whole thing more consistent
09:24	oholiab	i.e. there's a superfluous bit of information that I can just put in there which still kind of makes sense
09:25	oholiab	I'm more curious as to whether you'd want to design it so that you effectively had two different, minorly different record types or if you'd just want one where the extra optional field got left as nil and the rest of the program was designed to handle that gracefully
09:27	vijaykiran	oholiab: depends on how you are going to lookup the key e.g. (get {:what nil} :what 0) => nil where as (get {:wat nil} :what 0) => 0
09:28	vijaykiran	oholiab: so you might want to drop the key completely - having it as nil valued doesn't make much sense unless the domain differentiates between non-existant vs. nil
09:28	vijaykiran	oholiab: IMHO ^ :)
09:29	oholiab	yeah, I suppose you're right
09:29	pyr	w/in2
09:29	pyr	oops
09:29	oholiab	no point in pretending that two records that are slightly different are the same
09:53	octe	i have a map where each value is a list that i want to sort, what would be the easiest way to do that?
09:53	octe	keeping the map
09:54	clgv	octe: reduce-kv
09:54	clgv	octe: in immutable land you will end up with a new map anyway if you modify each value
09:55	octe	yes, i know, i just didn't express myself well
09:55	octe	thanks :)
09:55	octe	(reduce-kv #(assoc %1 %2 (sort-by :name %3)) {} m))
09:55	octe	that seemed to do the trick
10:00	kral	namaste
10:01	wakeup	hi all
10:02	wakeup	is there an idomatic way to get my leiningen project's version
10:02	wakeup	string at compile-time?
10:02	wakeup	E.g. I want to write a macro that will expand to the current project version string.
10:19	wakeup	If I do a def in my project.clj, in which namespace will it end up?`
10:24	gfredericks	"Key must be integer" could be extended with "when assoc'ing with a vector"
10:30	jonasen	dnolen: ping
10:32	wakeup	Ok so there is server-socket, is there also client-socket?
10:49	clgv	what do I do wrong when I get an UnsupportedOperationException for proxy?
10:54	borkdude	Wrath of the unmatched delimiter
11:13	seangrov`	That can't be good...
11:13	`cbp	:-o?
11:14	seangrov`	Is irccloud legit? Looks like it's stocking up a lot of nicks in the channel...
11:15	CoconutCrab	the names look randomly generated
11:20	Kruppe	seangrov`: seems to be happening in a lot of channels right now
11:34	wakeup	Ok I need to work with sockets: I need a server that can multiplex a socket and read/write strings.
11:34	wakeup	and a client that can connect to a network socket and rea/write strings
11:34	wakeup	I know of server-socket, what is the client counterpart called?
11:43	allenj12	hey guys
11:43	s4muel	o/
11:44	allenj12	has anyone tried the clojure.typed
11:44	allenj12	just saw it on reddit seems cool
11:46	allenj12	pretty quite :)
11:47	wakeup	is there a simple rpc library for clojure?
11:47	allenj12	rpc?
11:49	clgv	wakeup: did you try that one? https://github.com/sunng87/slacker
11:50	dgrnbrg	hello clojurians, I have a question about throwing exceptions in futures--how can I set the default exception handler for all clojure futures?
11:50	dgrnbrg	it seems that the jvm default exception handler doesn't see exceptions in futures
11:51	wakeup	clgv: I looked into it, but it exposes a namespace, I don't want to do that.
11:51	clgv	wakeup: what's the problem with having a dedicated namespace as api?
11:52	wakeup	clgv: It's not functional.
11:52	clgv	wakeup: huh?
11:54	sm0ke	hello..i have this snippent which updates an atom by deleting a key value ##(swap! (atom {:k1 #{:v1}}) update-in [:k1] (fnil disj #{}) :v1)
11:54	lazybot	⇒ {:k1 #{}}
11:54	clgv	wakeup: I guess you misunderstood the description of the lib
11:54	wakeup	clgv: A namespace implies some global state.
11:55	sm0ke	but the problem is that i want to completely remove key from map if the corresponding set becomes empty
11:55	clgv	wakeup: well, the library only exposes functions in the given namespace to be called in an RPC fashion
11:55	sm0ke	any elegant solution for this?
11:56	wakeup	clgv: what if I want multiple instances of the server?
11:57	wakeup	which different state
11:57	wakeup	with*
11:57	clgv	well there you introduce the nonfunctional state yourself ;)
11:58	wakeup	clgv: "the nonfunctional state"
11:58	wakeup	what is that supposed to mean
11:58	clgv	well that is anarchitectural question. would you have multiple instances of the same api on other plattforms as well?
12:09	yedi	http://pong.clojurecup.com/
12:14	clgv	yedi: nice :D
12:14	yedi	not mine, but yea it's pre cool
12:34	Pupnik_	i get crazy input lag on that
12:34	Pupnik_	with firefox/ubuntu
12:35	mdrogalis	tbaldridge: ping
12:35	yedi	Pupnik_: i get some input lag as well
12:35	tbaldridge	mdrogalis: pong
12:35	Pupnik_	oh its multiplayer
12:35	Pupnik_	with very simple netcode
12:35	Pupnik_	that explains that
12:39	wakeup	what do I have to put in my project.clj to use this: http://richhickey.github.io/clojure-contrib/server-socket-api.html
12:42	nDuff	wakeup: clojure-contrib is long dead.
12:42	nDuff	wakeup: ...that said, that library is now available as https://github.com/technomancy/server-socket
12:42	stuartsierra	clojurebot: contrib?
12:42	clojurebot	Monolithic clojure.contrib has been split up in favor of smaller, actually-maintained libs. Transition notes here: http://dev.clojure.org/display/community/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
12:43	nDuff	wakeup: https://clojars.org/server-socket
12:46	noncom	hi, how do I handle (ns) macro properly with (eval)? the error says can't set root binding of ns with (set!) and internet says that I shuld use (binding) to eval in a particular namespace, however, I wonder, how things like evaluation in repl or nrepl handles (ns) calls? does it use (eval) at all?
12:54	clgv	noncom: yeah the "e" in "repl" stands for `eval` ;)
13:02	noncom	clgv: i just wonder how does it manage to work with (ns) macro without problems
13:02	noncom	apparently there is something different from the simple clojure function (eval)
13:03	noncom	currently i manually parse the inbound form and if it has 'ns as its first member, i do (binding) to the (find-ns) secondmember, which is to be the symbol of the name of the namespace
13:04	clgv	noncom: you have a look at the built-in repl here: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/main.clj#L254
13:07	noncom	thanks! im looking at it!
13:09	noncom	umm, what is strange, i do not see anything special about it. it simply uses (eval) )_o
13:11	noncom	maybe i'm missing somethin...
13:17	clgv	noncom: how do you use eval and what goes wrong?
13:20	glosoli	Anyone using nREPL with Emacs knows if there is some way to jump into Java sources using M-. ?
13:26	technomancy	glosoli: I think you need ritz?
13:28	kendallbuchanan	I just started using Clojurescript, and I feel like I'm missing something simple: How do you use .indexOf with a vector?
13:28	kendallbuchanan	Console returns "Uncaught TypeError: Object [object Object] has no method 'indexOf'".
13:29	justin_smith	kendallbuchanan: with cljs sometimes you need .- instead of .
13:29	jml	is there a thing where I can be always running a server and then very quickly get access to a new repl?
13:29	technomancy	jml: https://github.com/technomancy/grenchman
13:29	jml	technomancy: ta, much obliged.
13:30	noncom	clgv: it says something like "cant set root binding of ns with set!"
13:30	hyPiRion	jml: depends on what you mean by server, I guess?
13:30	jml	technomancy: also, achewood. Yes. Very yes.
13:30	noncom	i know what it means, but i wonder how repl work
13:31	noncom	how repl works that it has no problems with that
13:31	hyPiRion	grenchman gives you a fast repl for an open leiningen connection, but not a specific server you have implemented yourself
13:31	kendallbuchanan	justin_smith: What does ".-" mean?
13:31	kendallbuchanan	In cljs, am I using "." and ".-", or just one?
13:31	jml	hyPiRion: how so?
13:32	glosoli	technomancy: I did install it, though I am not sure if there is some special way to load it to get navigating into sources working :) Been trying to find something with no luck ;/
13:32	nathanic	kendallbuchanan: .indexOf is part of a java interface, and isn't in JS. and ".-" in clojurescript means to access a member's value rather than to call a method, so it won't help you with indexOf.
13:32	clgv	noncom: when do you get this? I did not encounter the error with (eval '(ns bla.blubb))
13:32	kendallbuchanan	nathanic: Okay, that makes sense.
13:33	justin_smith	kendallbuchanan: .- is for fields
13:33	justin_smith	. is for methods
13:33	justin_smith	in clojurescript only
13:33	kendallbuchanan	So, is there no .indexOf method for vectors in cljs?
13:33	glosoli	technomancy: I should mention I tried jacking in with nrepl-ritz-jack-in, still it failed to open any java source :)
13:34	justin_smith	kendallbuchanan: I don't know, but I know that if indexOf is a field, it will be .-indexOf, if it is a method it would be .indexOf
13:34	justin_smith	the thing may have a different name in js, I don't know
13:34	technomancy	glosoli: oh no idea then; haven't used it. maybe try the ritz mailing list.
13:35	nathanic	kendallbuchanan: I couldn't find one, so I ended up writing a simple one myself. I welcome correction if there is a "real" one though. :-)
13:35	glosoli	technomancy: but you use emacs yes ?
13:35	technomancy	glosoli: yeah, but I don't know Java, so jumping to Java source is not very useful for me
13:36	kendallbuchanan	nathanic: You mind showing me what you made?
13:36	glosoli	technomancy: Hmm I have been told that it's impossible to know Clojure very well without learning java, seems like folks lied to me
13:37	Foxboron	glosoli: partly lies
13:37	technomancy	yes, that's rubbish
13:37	technomancy	you just need to know the standard library
13:37	glosoli	aah happy to hear that! :)
13:37	Foxboron	glosoli: sooner or later you might have to stumble into some java, but you can go far without ever touching it.
13:37	bbloom_	glosoli: it's worth knowing something about the JVM, but that's no different than learning about python's VM or ruby's MRI or haskell's STG machine
13:38	hiredman	except STG has a way cooler name
13:38	glosoli	lol
13:39	noncom	clgv: well, first i (read-string) the form from a text field, then imply (eval)
13:39	nathanic	kendallbuchanan: https://gist.github.com/nathanic/6781788 no promises of perfection etc. but that's what i was using.
13:39	nathanic	kendallbuchanan: again, if you find something better, i welcome correction :-)
13:39	noncom	clgv: just this... i found the problem description on stackoverflow.. som someone too had it
13:40	kendallbuchanan	nathanic: Awesome, thank you. I just thought for sure I was missing something basic. Thanks justin_smith, I'll be mindful of methods vs. objects.
13:40	clgv	noncom: try to build a minimal example that still fails
13:40	noncom	are you sure you don't have it with first read-string then eval it? all other forms except for (ns) eval prperly
13:40	noncom	ok wait
13:42	noncom	clgv: very strange, it work ok from repl or if i ctrl+enter the code from counterclockwise, but it does not work inside the running program
13:44	noncom	here is it on SO: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7684656/clojure-eval-code-in-different-namespace
13:44	clgv	noncom: the accepted answer is correct. I played with it a while ago
13:45	jml	hyPiRion: ah right. I don't particularly care for a specific server at this stage.
13:45	noncom	yes it is and it works. but repls do not have that problem. i doubt they do some kind of binding like that...
13:45	jml	just want to experiment with using clojure in the same way I use ipython atm
13:46	noncom	repls simply evaluate (ns) like if there is no issue
13:46	technomancy	jml: usually people just keep a repl open in emacs or lein repl. tooling around direct quick CLI access is still very immature.
13:46	noncom	gmmm
13:46	hyPiRion	yeah
13:46	noncom	i guess im missing something
13:47	jml	technomancy: hmm, ok. I'm pretty terrible about keeping things open normally
13:47	TimMc	noncom: So why not just use binding?
13:47	jml	but I guess my emacs is a daemon so it shouldn't be too bad.
13:48	technomancy	I mean you can try grenchman, but it hasn't seen a lot of use yet, and it'll take like half an hour to compile the toolchain
13:51	jml	technomancy: heh, ok. I might skip it for now :)
13:51	jml	thanks for the warning
13:51	noncom	TimMc: i do not mind using binding. the problem is that the target ns is not known before evaluation. curerently i read-string and see if the first symbol is 'ns and then i do binding for the second symbol. but i feel this is wrong and fragile
13:58	rasmusto	,(map #{nil 1 false true} [1 2 3 nil false true])
13:58	clojurebot	(1 nil nil nil false ...)
14:00	hyPiRion	if you compile grenchman though, you'll have heat for the rest of the winter
14:03	sm0ke	hello how do i convert a string to "bytes"
14:03	sm0ke	what is bytes anyways?
14:04	`cbp	sm0ke: .getBytes
14:04	s4muel	an encoded representation of a string
14:04	sm0ke	umm i dont understand... ##(map byte "ss")
14:04	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
14:05	`cbp	,(.getBytes "hello")
14:05	clojurebot	#<byte[] [B@1c9e59a>
14:05	`cbp	,(seq (.getBytes "hello"))
14:05	clojurebot	(104 101 108 108 111)
14:06	`cbp	(map char (.getBytes "hello"))
14:06	sm0ke	`cbp: hmm isnt that a bytes array? actually i am using cljzmq a clojure library for zmq..and i see type hints of ^bytes in source code
14:06	`cbp	,(map char (.getBytes "hello"))
14:06	clojurebot	(\h \e \l \l \o)
14:06	hyPiRion	,(map int "hello")
14:06	clojurebot	(104 101 108 108 111)
14:06	hyPiRion	,(seq "hello")
14:06	clojurebot	(\h \e \l \l \o)
14:07	`cbp	sm0ke: I'm pretty sure ^bytes means byte array
14:07	sm0ke	`cbp: i will take your word on that..thanks
14:08	sm0ke	,(= bytes (class (.getBytes "ss")))
14:08	clojurebot	false
14:10	llasram	sm0ke: The Clojure compiler has special handling for the symbols "bytes" "ints" etc to treat them as 1-dimensional arrays of the associated primitive type
14:10	llasram	when in hinting metadata, that is
14:11	technomancy	because the literal java syntax for arrays is too horrible for words
14:11	llasram	sm0ke: Hinting metadata tags are just symbols. ##(let [x ^WhatIsThisWeirdThing {}] [x (meta x)])
14:11	lazybot	⇒ [{} nil]
14:12	llasram	Well, didn't quite go as planned
14:12	llasram	technomancy: Yeah, that too. Blech
14:12	sm0ke	llasram: thanks that makes sense
14:13	`cbp	I think lazybot shouldve thrown an exception there
14:14	llasram	`cbp: Try it in your REPL
14:14	`cbp	llasram: yeah
14:15	`cbp	,(let [x ^WhatIsThisWeirdThing {}] [x (meta x)])
14:15	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: WhatIsThisWeirdThing in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:15	`cbp	superior bot
14:15	llasram	hmm
14:15	sm0ke	does that mean i could also use ##(map byte "ss"); as it feels more idiomatic?
14:15	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
14:16	`cbp	##clojure-version
14:16	sm0ke	eh i dont get it that runs on my repl just fine
14:16	llasram	sm0ke: No. Even if that worked, it would return a seq of Byte objects
14:16	llasram	You need a primitive byte array
14:16	llasram	end of story
14:16	sm0ke	ok got it thanks
14:17	`cbp	##(let [x #^WhatIsThisWeirdThing {}] [x (meta x)])
14:17	lazybot	⇒ [{} nil]
14:18	TimMc	noncom: Well, that's probably what the REPL does as well. :-P
14:18	llasram	,(-> '[^WhatNowLazybot? {}] first meta)
14:18	clojurebot	{:tag WhatNowLazybot?}
14:18	llasram	&(-> '[^WhatNowLazybot? {}] first meta)
14:18	lazybot	⇒ {:tag WhatNowLazybot?}
14:18	llasram	Gee, thanks
14:19	`cbp	you could do (byte-array 5 (map byte "hello")) if it really rustles your jimmies to use java methods
14:20	sm0ke	`cbp: umm..no i would rather stick with .getBytes then
14:25	sm0ke	crap github's down!
14:25	tgoossens	so it has come to this
14:26	geoffeg	sm0ke: part of the US government shut down.
14:26	fbernier	and here comes the HN submission about github being down ... wtf
14:27	mtp	"America is now a global military empire with a nonfunctioning civilian government"
14:27	piranha	is there a better solution for changing all keys of a hashmap than (into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(some-fn k) v]) data))?
14:27	sm0ke	yea what with america shutting down over obamacare?
14:27	geoffeg	piranha: update-in?
14:27	piranha	geoffeg: hm, not sure I understand your idea... how do I do that?
14:27	technomancy	piranha: not really. it's a bizarre omission from clojure IMO.
14:28	technomancy	zipmap is arguably slightly cleaner
14:28	piranha	technomancy: that's really annoying :( and slow also... :\
14:28	piranha	hmmm, how do I do it with zipmap?
14:29	technomancy	(zipmap (map f (keys m)) (vals m))
14:29	hyPiRion	piranha: (into {} (for [[k v] m] [(f k) v])) works too
14:29	piranha	heh, that's certainly cleaner, but probably slower... I think I should stop trying to optimize that piece of code and just drop to JS directly :\
14:30	piranha	hyPiRion: yeah, a bit less code as well, thanks
14:30	technomancy	IIRC there's also keywordize-keys if that's what you need, but it's bizarre why the more general form is omitted
14:30	piranha	nope, I need to transform dashed-keys into camelCase
14:31	technomancy	(with-redefs [keyword camelcase] (keywordize-keys m)) ; wooooooo
14:31	piranha	:)))
14:31	piranha	hm, nope, there is no keywordize-keys
14:32	piranha	ah!
14:32	piranha	clojure.walk
14:33	piranha	,(with-redefs [keyword name] (keywordize-keys {:a "b"}))
14:33	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: keywordize-keys in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:33	piranha	,(with-redefs [keyword name] (clojure.walk/keywordize-keys {:a "b"}))
14:33	clojurebot	#<ClassNotFoundException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.walk>
14:34	piranha	damn
14:34	piranha	anyway, it's not working )
14:34	piranha	since it's checks inside that argument is a string
14:35	technomancy	ahahahaa yeah don't do that =P
14:35	rasmusto	piranha: you could also redef string? to keyword? :P
14:35	piranha	:DDDDDDD
14:35	rasmusto	(don't do that)
14:35	piranha	damn now I'm really laughing
14:37	sm0ke	How do i convert a clojure map to bytes? map conly contains strings and keywords?
14:38	sm0ke	and how do i convert it back from bytes?
14:39	technomancy	sm0ke: you'll have to be more specific
14:39	TimMc	sm0ke: Your question is ill-specified; there are many possible meanings of what you just said.
14:39	scriptor	hi guys
14:39	TimMc	Are you trying to serialize a map to disk?
14:39	scriptor	can someone point me to what the loop* in https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L4156 refers to?
14:39	technomancy	scriptor: I think it's hard-coded into the compiler
14:39	sm0ke	yes i want to serialize a map to byte array and write to a zmq socket
14:40	sm0ke	and want to construct it back too
14:40	scriptor	ah, makes sense
14:40	scriptor	time to go digging
14:40	sm0ke	does that makes sense?
14:40	llasram	sm0ke: Yes. And I would like to formally welcome you to the serialization rabbit hole :-)
14:41	llasram	sm0ke: If you don't have any particular requirements for your project, the flat-out easiest thing to do is use EDN
14:41	sm0ke	llasram: aha edn..yes i am using it for config already
14:41	sm0ke	let me dig around
14:47	sm0ke	hey guys does this makes sense ##(clojure.edn/read-string (String. (.getBytes (pr-str {:a "sss" :b "cc"})))); for ser/de ?
14:47	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.edn
14:48	sm0ke	feel very hacky
14:48	TimMc	Why .getBytes?
14:48	TimMc	And if you use that, you'll want to specify UTF-8.
14:48	sm0ke	up to .getByte is the ser...outside form is deser
14:49	llasram	TimMc: They're pushing data over 0mq IIRC
14:50	sm0ke	that is weird way to serialize i feel
14:50	technomancy	sm0ke: there are more efficient ways to do it, but not simpler ways
14:50	llasram	sm0ke: The only "hacky" part is the bytes to/from transition. EDN is a character-wise format, so you've got an extra step.
14:50	llasram	(inc technomancy)
14:50	lazybot	⇒ 79
14:51	llasram	sm0ke: If you want something directly byte-oriented, you have a ton of options. Here's mine: https://github.com/damballa/abracad
14:52	sm0ke	llasram: hey isnt that for avro? i am using that already in one project
14:52	llasram	Yes
14:52	llasram	If you're already using Avro, then might actually be a good fit
14:53	sm0ke	no i am not using avro here..its not a very schema oriented thingy
14:53	sm0ke	i just want some fool proof serialization of simple clojure data
14:54	llasram	It's not well tested, but abracad actually will generate schemas for you which will serialize all the basic Clojure data structures
14:54	llasram	In the abracad readme, jump down to "EDN-in-Avro"
15:01	sm0ke	well it needs a schema..i think its too qualified for my purpose
15:01	sm0ke	i saw this nippy library
15:02	sm0ke	dont know if it fits
15:11	weavejester	I've had good experiences with Nippy.
15:13	sm0ke	yes there stress-data test is pretty comprehensive..more than good enough for my purpose
15:13	noncom	weavejester: if you have time, could you tell a little about your experience on combining jmonkeyengine Controls with clojure paradigm?
15:14	sm0ke	cool jmonkey on clojure!
15:14	weavejester	noncom: Controls?
15:14	sm0ke	is it on github?
15:14	noncom	yeah, you know, jmonkey prescribes updates to all the entities in the world by linking instances of Control class to them..
15:15	drorbemet	Hi, does someone of you know if there is a clojure library for parsing org-mode files?
15:15	weavejester	sm0ke: I might release some code on my implementation after EuroClojure. I've been holding off, however, as it's still unfinished.
15:15	noncom	these cotrols have state and they lurk into the main apps update loop
15:15	jtoy	I have a weird problem, I can run this code from the repl fine and it works, when I run it from cron though I get a null pointer exception, can anyone point me to waht I am doing wrong: ((resolve (read-string (:code experiment) )) user-id (last groups)))
15:15	sm0ke	weavejester: awesome
15:15	weavejester	noncom: Oh right! Yes, I know them, but I don't make use of those at all.
15:15	weavejester	There's really little point.
15:16	jtoy	when I run from cron I run it as so: lein trampoline run -m air.campaigns/jobs
15:16	noncom	sm0ke: some people, including me, have worked on using jme in clojure.. but nothing definite as of yet, i guess.. you can try too!
15:16	jtoy	what that code does is just pull out a string from a database and call it with some arguments
15:16	noncom	i mean, it is definitely viable, but no production-ready thing is there yet
15:17	noncom	weavejester: so you just plug into the update loop directy?
15:17	weavejester	noncom: Yep
15:17	weavejester	noncom: Each update, I sync the nodes with a Clojure data structure representing the scene.
15:18	noncom	o i see
15:18	weavejester	I'm actually still not completely sold on jME. It provides a lot of code I don't need to write, but is ultimately written for a different paradigm.
15:19	noncom	true...
15:19	callen	JME?
15:19	noncom	you think plain lwjgl might be the way?
15:19	callen	oh, jmonkeyengine
15:20	jtoy	I think it must have to do with something not loading properly, but i have no idea how to debug this
15:21	weavejester	noncom: Yes, possibly. It would be more work, but it would be easier to fit it in to work with Clojure.
15:21	weavejester	jMonkey is a pain when you bump up against its structure.
15:22	weavejester	Which isn't really a criticism of the library, I'm just using it in a weird way
15:22	weavejester	It's a very OOP framework, so there's some translation involved.
15:24	weavejester	jtoy: Does it depend on a specific current directory?
15:24	jtoy	weavejester: no, but i dont really understand that question
15:25	noncom	yeah, it is from a different paradigm... in my approach, im trying to find a proper synthesis of the two paradigms, when neither has to give up, so i have jme-centered part, which is oop-ish and such and clojure-centered part which is clojuric (at least as much as i can), and they are very loosesly coupled..
15:25	weavejester	Another pain with jME is there aren't any up-to-date Maven artifacts. I had to adapt a third-party project and install locally to get it to work.
15:26	weavejester	jtoy: Well, maybe cron is running it with a different current directory?
15:26	noncom	oh i do not have problems with installation now. i simply put it in leins resources path, and for jar distribution i use nativot.
15:26	mtp	cron runs things with a wildly different PATH
15:26	mtp	and yes, it defaults to your $HOME
15:26	jtoy	weavejester: cron code loads clojure runs code,the problem started when I added this line: ((resolve (read-string (:code experiment) )) user-id (last groups)))
15:27	noncom	good to hear your opinions, wanted to ask you for some time already
15:27	weavejester	noncom: I wanted to use Maven packages and do it properly. There are some Maven packages in Sonotype, but they're out of date. There's also a jme3-maven-helper project, but it's also out of date, so I updated it: https://github.com/weavejester/jme3-maven-helper
15:28	jtoy	if i use resolve, does it matter if the string I read in is myns/func vs func ? I am currently using func
15:28	noncom	wow, that is cool! so you keep it up-to-date?
15:28	`cbp	jtoy: yes it matters, qualify it properly
15:29	weavejester	noncom: The install.sh script will grab the latest jME 3.0final branch from SVN, then packages it up as a maven package and installs it locally as [com.jme3/jmonkeyengine "3.0.0-SNAPSHOT"]
15:29	noncom	cool!
15:30	weavejester	I had some issues with running older versions as standalone due to a bug in LWJGL on Mac OSX.
15:31	weavejester	LWJGL 2.9.0 looks like it's a lot better for OSX than 2.8.x
15:31	noncom	hmm, i mainly window so no know that of.. but heard of
15:31	`cbp	wat
15:32	weavejester	noncom: My approach to jME3 is to brute force the node system. So in my system whenever a data structure changes, I destroy the associated node, and recreate it with the new data.
15:33	weavejester	Which sounds horribly slow
15:33	weavejester	But is actually pretty performant.
15:33	noncom	haha
15:33	noncom	well, i guess it depends on what you have in the scene graph
15:33	TimMc	`cbp: "Hmm, I mainly use Microsoft Windows, so I'm not familiar with it... but I've heard of it."
15:33	TimMc	That's my best guess.
15:34	`cbp	o.o
15:34	noncom	TimMc: that's true!
15:35	weavejester	noncom: Yeah. It turns out that it's not very expensive to add or remove objects from the scene graph. Basically just a hash change and the cost of creating a new object.
15:35	weavejester	noncom: With caching, it's sufficiently quick for a lot of tasks.
15:35	weavejester	But eventually I suspect I might move to LWJGL directly.
15:37	weavejester	Essentially I just have a reference to an immutable data structure that describes the scene. Camera, objects, background, window size, etc.
15:37	weavejester	I'm using Reagi to make the scene changable.
15:38	Jarda	has someone used https://github.com/pelle/clauth
15:38	Jarda	I'm having this issue: https://github.com/pelle/clauth/issues/11
15:39	noncom	that is definitely very interesting. sounds like partly unprobed ground. havent seen it done for a real 3d thing
15:39	noncom	nice to see reagi growing. last time i was visiting it was somehting like 0.3.0..!
15:42	noncom	so you get the better picture of what reagi will be? i remember you were still researching it back then
15:52	jtoy	`cbp: that fixed it, thanks
15:53	`cbp	jtoy: np
16:01	edw	My .emacs is so filled with ac-nrepl cruft; does anyone have a good example of a minimal, clean ac-tricked-out nrepl .emacs file?
16:03	`cbp	my .emacs is (or used to be before i switched to emacs live) just a bunch of load-files :P
16:05	edw	I may still have some stuff in mine from emacs 19.
16:05	callen	edw: I have a tricked out Emacs environment, but ac-nrepl is too fookin' slow for me mate.
16:06	edw	callen: I hear you. It's been getting faster with newer builds of Emacs 24. I used to be mollasses-slow.
16:07	dgrnbrg	is there a way to catch uncaught exceptions thrown in futures?
16:08	callen	edw: I've tried it in Emacs 24. Still unacceptably slow :P
16:08	callen	dgrnbrg: deref future, catch the exception.
16:08	callen	dgrnbrg: boom.
16:08	callen	alternately, handle the exception in the code the future is executing.
16:09	edw	callen: Now that you mention it, it's still too slow on my '10 MacBook Air. Only on my MBP '12 Retina is it tolerable.
16:09	dgrnbrg_	callen: I can't do that, because the futures hold async computations
16:09	callen	edw: I have a '13 Retina MBP and it's still irritating as fuck.
16:09	dgrnbrg_	there's no point that I can safely deref them
16:10	callen	dgrnbrg_: if you cannot dereference your futures then they are not futures and you should not be using futures.
16:10	callen	dgrnbrg_: future is not a dispatch mechanism, it's a retrieval mechanism.
16:10	callen	either fire off a raw thread or write real async code.
16:10	callen	all they win you if you're not @'ing is use of the thread pool
16:14	dgrnbrg_	callen: Where does the future swallow the exception?
16:14	mpenet	dgrnbrg_: lamina has facilities to handle errors in situations like this
16:15	mpenet	dgrnbrg_: see run-pipeline and its error-handler option, it will do for "nested" async scenarios
16:15	callen	dgrnbrg_: future doesn't swallow the exception.
16:15	callen	dgrnbrg_: it simply waits for you to deref to allow it to continue to bubble.
16:15	dgrnbrg_	I use futures in several places in my code where they should normally behave correctly, but I want the exceptions to reach the global uncaughtexceptionhandler
16:17	dgrnbrg_	callen: I don't see anywhere that future catches the exception and holds it for late
16:17	dgrnbrg_	hold it for later retrieval from deref
16:17	callen	dgrnbrg_: stop using futures for this.
16:17	callen	dgrnbrg_: use agents or an actual async library.
16:18	dgrnbrg_	callen: regardless of what i'm using, I want to understand where the exceptions are being caught
16:19	stuartsierra	dgrnbrg_: Clojure's future catches any exception thrown in its body and re-throws it when you deref the future. Just like java.util.concurrent.Future
16:20	callen	dgrnbrg_: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L6311-L6336
16:21	dgrnbrg_	stuartsierra: is it using Java's future implementation to catch and retain the exception?
16:21	callen	the answer is in the code I just linked.
16:21	callen	stuartsierra: how did AOT bite you earlier?
16:21	stuartsierra	dgrnbrg_: yes
16:22	dgrnbrg_	stuartsierra: what's the right way to use a thread pool in which exceptions should bubble to a global exception handler?
16:22	dgrnbrg_	is there such a way?
16:23	stuartsierra	dgrnbrg_: Java Executors allow you to specify a thread factory, where you can set an uncaught exception handler on the thread.
16:23	dgrnbrg_	stuartsierra: but from my interpretation of the code, it's the fact that I'm running by `submit`ing to an Executor, and that usage of `submit` will hold the exception in the resultant future
16:24	dgrnbrg_	and that is irrespective of an uncaughtExceptionHandler I specify
16:24	stuartsierra	dgrnbrg_: oh, yes
16:24	podviaznikov	hi, does anyone know library for collecting code quality metrics for clojure projects?
16:24	stuartsierra	that's right
16:24	dgrnbrg_	I'm trying to figure out a technique to catch exceptions in futures that I'm not properly checking the result of
16:24	stuartsierra	Catch them. :)
16:24	dgrnbrg_	ugh
16:25	stuartsierra	"If you throw an exception in the woods, …"
16:25	dgrnbrg_	I just like the idea of not needing to deal with that directly
16:25	dgrnbrg_	particularly for the parts of the code that don't have any instrumentation like that in them
16:30	ztellman	dgrnbrg_ so wrap each function and submit the errors to queue
16:30	ztellman	or just log them, if they're that unimportant
16:48	akurilin	For Korma, would I use transform/prepare to change from dashes to underscores and vice-versa in column names?
16:49	akurilin	And on a related note, is there a way to tell Korma to transform joda time to sql time automatically ?
16:50	bitemyapp	rkneufeld: I can't do the Korma chapter with lein-try, it breaks things.
16:51	bitemyapp	rkneufeld: c3p0 can't find the JDBC driver if I use lein-try.
16:51	bitemyapp	I don't really have time for a fix, so I'm writing the instructions with a fresh demo project.
16:52	bitemyapp	akurilin: you would, @ transform/prepare.
16:53	akurilin	bitemyapp, so loop through all the values and check for joda time type?
16:53	bitemyapp	akurilin: sure
16:53	akurilin	bitemyapp, k thx.
16:54	akurilin	bitemyapp, since you're here, any idea if I can do a dashes -> underscores transformation for defentity, or is my only option at this point to use underscores directly in clojure?
16:54	akurilin	for a table like foo_bar in PG, and foo-bar in clj.
16:55	bitemyapp	do whatcha want.
16:55	bitemyapp	you can transform 'em back and forth. or not.
16:56	akurilin	bitemyapp, what I'm trying to figure out is if I can do this transform for the table name itself, not just the results. I could technically just override defentity to do that.
16:57	bitemyapp	gf3: <3
16:57	bitemyapp	akurilin: oh oh oh, table name.
16:57	bitemyapp	akurilin: you can alias the thing.
16:57	gf3	bitemyapp: Ahaha—ACCEPTABLE
16:58	bitemyapp	I'm offering bottles of whiskey to anybody willing to give their library a better name.
16:58	arrdem	bitemyapp: the "better" criteria being...
16:58	bitemyapp	Fuck, this deserves a tumblr wall-of-shame/open offer blog.
16:58	gf3	bitemyapp: My libraries are already perfectly named
16:58	bitemyapp	arrdem: no clj-* or *jure in the name.
16:58	bitemyapp	gf3: you're fine, some idiots actually name their shit stuff like clj-dstore
16:59	akurilin	bitemyapp, could you be more specific about what you mean by alias? Haven't gotten my coffee yet.
16:59	arrdem	bitemyapp: eh clj-http and soforth could be better but I'm not bothered by it so long as there isn't a name colision.
16:59	gf3	bitemyapp: clj-jure
16:59	arrdem	(inc gf3)
16:59	lazybot	⇒ 2
17:00	bitemyapp	arrdem: dakrone gets a reprieve .
17:00	bitemyapp	everybody else can DIAF
17:00	bitemyapp	akurilin: http://sqlkorma.com/docs#entities
17:00	bitemyapp	(defentity muhhhh-table (pk :id) (table :muhhhh_table))
17:01	bitemyapp	arrdem: I guess we can't all be technomancy.
17:01	arrdem	bitemyapp: a fate to which I aspire nonetheless
17:01	akurilin	bitemyapp, oh I found it, brilliant
17:02	akurilin	thx
17:02	akurilin	brb
17:02	bitemyapp	arrdem: suck-up.
17:02	arrdem	bitemyapp: I'm a nub. what do you want from me.
17:03	arrdem	bitemyapp: also way to change your IRC name. now I have to go add more aliases to my cc project.
17:03	rhg135	incase anybody finds it useful, here's a date macro i wrote
17:04	rhg135	https://www.refheap.com/19227
17:04	rhg135	hmm, the staticness might be a problem
17:04	bitemyapp	rhg135: why is this a macro?
17:05	arrdem	bitemyapp: because macros are awesome!
17:05	bitemyapp	that's not a reason.
17:05	AimHere	Maybe his aot compilation is going to be VERY aot
17:05	bitemyapp	lol @ AimHere
17:07	gf3	Raynes: I just realised that I put your email in me README like 2 years ago
17:07	gf3	Raynes: Whoops → https://github.com/gf3/clavatar-js
17:08	gyim	Hi, a newbie question: what is the idiomatic way to run long-running asynchronous tasks, but with a bounded input queue?
17:08	gyim	I'm writing an app that sends commands to a bunch of servers. The simplest solution is to create an agent per server, and start the command sender function with `send-off`. But if a server slows down, I want to detect it and prevent sending more tasks to it.
17:09	gyim	I guess I could create a bunch of refs to store the number of outgoing messages, etc, but I wonder if there is an easier solution
17:10	arrdem	gyim: what's your structure? you have a worker thread for every client with a shared input queue?
17:11	seangrov`	Hrm, but when will clojure have its rails?
17:11	seangrov`	I see no future for clojure without it
17:11	bitemyapp	seangrov`: this may be the first time I've seen you troll in IRC.
17:11	technomancy	seangrov`: right after it gets whitespace-sensitive syntax, duh
17:11	seangrov`	Heh, sorry, porting rails -> clojure right now
17:11	seangrov`	technomancy: hah!
17:11	gyim	arrdem: i was thinking about a simple blocking function per task (connect to server, send command, close connection)
17:12	gf3	technomancy, seangrov`: Can you give me an ETA
17:12	tbaldridge	seangrov`: rails, really?
17:12	gf3	technomancy, seangrov`: I have deadlines and clients
17:12	gf3	THX
17:12	tbaldridge	(dec seangrov`)
17:12	lazybot	⇒ 0
17:12	tbaldridge	:-P
17:12	seangrov`	I guess it can't go negative
17:12	gyim	arrdem: and allocate a custom ExecutorService for all of these tasks to limit the number of parallel tasks
17:13	seangrov`	tbaldridge: I did say I was porting from rail to clojure right now :P
17:13	tbaldridge	seangrov`: ah I thought you were saying that you were porting rails to clojure.
17:13	seangrov`	A considerably reduction in LOC, and it's much more explicit to boot
17:13	rhg135	bitemyapp: to not quote the fieldnames when calling
17:13	bitemyapp	Not sure if serious.
17:16	Raynes	gf3: Whoa, you made a clojurescript port of clavatar and that was 2 years ago? How long have I been doing this shit?
17:16	gf3	Raynes: Too damn long
17:16	Raynes	gf3: You just made a teenager feel old. Congratulations.
17:16	gf3	Raynes: And yes we've know each other for basically decades now
17:16	Raynes	Basically
17:17	Raynes	Anyways, the email address thing is fine. It's in more easily accessible places if a bot wanted it bad enough.
17:17	gf3	The bots want it sooo bad
17:17	Raynes	For example: proudly displayed on my Github page.
17:18	gf3	But they do some janky stuff, non?
17:18	gf3	Yeah
17:18	gf3	<a class="email js-obfuscate-email" data-email="%67%69%61%6e%6e%69%40%72%75%6e%6c%65%76%65%6c%36%2e%6f%72%67" href="mailto:{email}">{email}</a>
17:23	gyim	[agents] so basically my question is: if i want to run a lot of IO in the background, how do i prevent (a) 10000 commands to pile up, or (b) to have 10000 background threads running simultaneously
17:25	gyim	(i mean when things go wrong, for example the network slows down and all of the connections block for a minute)
17:26	bitemyapp	gyim: async code.
17:27	Jarda	hey struggling with syntax
17:27	mtp	start struggling with semantics instead
17:27	gyim	i think the same applies here if i use agents to run async code or netty to connect to servers. I still have to maintain some kind of command queue
17:27	Jarda	with hickup, how can I have a function that returns <p>Foo</p><p>Bar</p>
17:28	bitemyapp	Jarda: hiccup
17:28	Jarda	I tried (defn foobar [] [:p "Foo"] [:p "Bar"]) but that obviously just return <p>Bar</p>
17:28	Jarda	bitemyapp: yeah sorry
17:28	tbaldridge	gyim: core.async with a limited number of processing thread blocks.
17:28	tbaldridge	gyim: this is exactly what core.async is for.
17:28	hyPiRion	Jarda: (list [:p "Foo"] [:p "Bar"])
17:30	Jarda	hyPiRion: oh thanks of course
17:31	hyPiRion	Jarda: just be aware that [[:p "Foo"] [:p "Bar"]] is not the same as (list [:p "Foo"] [:p "Bar"]) is not the same thing
17:31	hyPiRion	then you should be fine
17:31	Jarda	hyPiRion: yeah with hiccup you can't even write [[...]]
17:31	gyim	tbalridge: i was thinking about core.async, especially because it has a dropping queue and such. But I should not use IO there, right? So I should probably have a "frontend" go block that accepts commands via channels, and spawns worker threads for IO
17:31	Jarda	because it will complain about [...] not being a valid element name
17:31	Jarda	I already tried that
17:32	hyPiRion	heh, yeah
17:33	tbaldridge	gyim: just do IO inside of a "thread" block instead of a "go" block. Thread blocks give you dedicated threads. So start threads at the start of your program and have them pull from a channel, then you can put! dozens on requests into that channel and the threads can process them as neeed.
17:35	ToBeReplaced	tbaldridge: do you find yourself using futures in conjunction with core.async often?
17:35	bsavoy	I'm having trouble finding the appropriate resources to help me understand what's happening in the following code. Why can't a symbol from the same namespace be resolved? Is there a completely different way of doing this? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/6785059
17:35	tbaldridge	ToBeReplaced: thread = future, future returns a promise, thread returns a channel. So no.
17:35	bsavoy	Any help much appreciated
17:36	ToBeReplaced	tbaldridge: i do something like (assoc system (future (loop [] (>!! chan work) (recur))))
17:37	ToBeReplaced	the future is helpful so that i can query for errors instead of needing to write error handling into the hcannel work
17:37	gyim	tbaldridge: great, thanks! I thought that i could read from a channel only from go blocks. Seems like I should read more about it then.
17:39	stuartsierra	bsavoy: `eval` tries to resolve everything in the current namespace, not the namespace containing the function in which you called `eval`.
17:39	ToBeReplaced	i guess i could/should just create error handling `ethread` and the like to wrap up errors and put them on the channel
17:41	bsavoy	stuartsierra: But then this eval is declared in ns2, and it's eval'ing (bang "foo") which is declared in that one namespace. How is that?
17:41	logic_prog	right now, when doing clojurescript + clojure dev, I need to, from the same directoyr, run both (1) "lein cljsbuild auto" (for the cljs auto compilation) and (2) "lein repl' (so emacs can connect via nrepl). I never read the output of window (2), though I offen looka t window (1) for errors. Is there some way, so that I need only run one command, i.e. "lein cljsbuiod auto for cljs + nrepl" ?
17:41	bsavoy	Something to do with lazy-sequencing?
17:41	logic_prog	i'd like a single lein comand to both start cljs auto compilation and provide a nrepl for me to connect to
17:42	ToBeReplaced	logic_prog: you could use an alias, see :aliases on leiningen sample project
17:43	stuartsierra	bsavoy: When you run your code, the current namespace is either `tests.ns1` or `user`. That's the namespace `eval` is using to search for `bang`.
17:43	logic_prog	alias lets me run two plugins at once?
17:43	logic_prog	ToBeReplaced: how does alias help with using two plugins at once
17:43	bsavoy	stuartsierra: Ah thanks, that makes sense.
17:44	ToBeReplaced	logic_prog: i think "lein do cljsbuild-auto, repl" is the command you want, or something close to that... then you could alias to it
17:44	logic_prog	I don't even know what the "non-aliased" version is
17:45	rhg135	why must java be so complex? https://www.refheap.com/19227 and still wrong output
17:45	rhg135	today isn't sept. 1 right
17:46	ToBeReplaced	logic_prog: `lein do cljsbuild auto, repl`
17:46	hyPiRion	rhg135: use clj-time?
17:46	logic_prog	tried it
17:46	logic_prog	emacs can't connect
17:46	logic_prog	nrepl does not appear to be started
17:46	logic_prog	i'm sure I'm doing something stupid
17:46	rhg135	thank goodness
17:46	rhg135	but idk i just want to get a timestamp
17:47	ToBeReplaced	logic_prog: that's because auto never returns :)
17:47	logic_prog	I think it might be easiest
17:47	logic_prog	if I just embed a nrepl server :-)
17:48	rhg135	i don't want to shell out though, i could just call date
17:48	rhg135	from un ix
17:50	logic_prog	okay, embed success :-)
18:11	melipone	hello! I want to update several keys in a map. Is there a better way of doing that than (assoc (assoc mymap :firstkey 0) :secondkey 1)?
18:11	ToBeReplaced	melipone: (assoc mymap :firstkey 0 :secondkey 1)
18:12	melipone	ToBeReplaced: you can do that? thanks!
18:12	AimHere	Also consider merge and merge-with depending on what you're trying to do
18:19	recursor94	I know I could probably find the answer to this online, but why doesn't clojure contrib officially exist anymore?
18:20	hiredman	it does, it just isn't a single entity anymore
18:20	recursor94	but why?
18:20	nDuff	recursor94: because the old way was an almost-unmaintained mess.
18:20	nDuff	s/was/resulted in/
18:21	hiredman	because it is frustrating to have a dependency management system and not be able to pull out just the bits you want
18:21	recursor94	are most of those libraries still well maintained?
18:22	arohner	many. some were abandoned
18:22	hiredman	any that exist are mantained in some sense, anything that no one was interested in taking care of died with the single artifact contrib
18:23	hiredman	which was the other problem, the single contrib repo was full of stuff that had been "contributed" but then ignored
18:24	recursor94	Does anybody have an opinion on what the best free learning resource is for clojure?
18:25	bitemyapp	recursor94: clojure.contrib was a bad idea. Free market of libraries ftw.
18:25	recursor94	I see.
18:25	`cbp	recursor94: github :P
18:25	bitemyapp	recursor94: github
18:25	recursor94	Most of what's on github is library code though. Some of it is difficult to decipher.
18:25	hiredman	recursor94: how I learned is reading the docs on clojure.org and writing clojure code, and I think that has served me pretty well
18:26	recursor94	hiredman: Were you a lisper before clojure?
18:27	recursor94	err, a lisp programmer?
18:27	`cbp	recursor94: is clojure your first language?
18:27	recursor94	No.
18:27	akurilin	When you guys are developing ring apps, do you generally nrepl straight into the running server instance or do you use a separate repl? I've always spun a spun a separate lein repl, but I feel like that's unnecessary if you already have a server instance running.
18:27	hiredman	no, I had seen the sicp videos and tried to write a lisp interpreter in ruby (based on just the videos) but I had not used lisp in anger before
18:27	bitemyapp	akurilin: porque no los dos?
18:28	`cbp	recursor94: then you have some domain knowledge, just look up a library on that domain imho
18:28	akurilin	bitemyapp, why have 2 if 1 is enough?
18:28	bitemyapp	akurilin: it depends on what I'm doing. I generally have a clean-room non-server nrepl and a non-server test nrepl. I'll add a third server with embedded nrepl if I'm doing deep-magick.
18:28	bitemyapp	akurilin: because I slather myself with repls prodigally.
18:29	akurilin	bitemyapp, what's the difference between a clean-room and a test nrepl?
18:29	hiredman	lots of people will point you at tooling "install emacs, install lein, etc etc" but you can write clojure with notepad and java -jar clojure.jar
18:29	technomancy	akurilin: a separate repl makes no sense
18:29	hiredman	emacs and lein will just smooth out rough edges
18:29	bitemyapp	akurilin: main nrepl and test nrepl are both clean-room
18:29	bitemyapp	the non-clean-room is the server nrepl
18:30	bitemyapp	technomancy: only because you don't work like I do.
18:31	ucb	bitemyapp: callen?
18:31	technomancy	a separate process to do a sanity check full test run before merging/deploying makes lots of sense though
18:31	technomancy	but the whole point of "clean room" is to not allow new definitions, so interactivity isn't as necessary
18:31	bitemyapp	technomancy: I have c.t.n.r/refresh and (run-all-tests) in my test nrepl ready for the up-arrow.
18:32	bitemyapp	I do it for speed
18:32	bitemyapp	no waiting for lein/grench test start time
18:32	bitemyapp	up-arrow -> return -> bang answers
18:32	bitemyapp	"guard rail programming" (bang bang bang)
18:32	technomancy	you can still get stale state left around in memory
18:32	bitemyapp	I accept this possibility and choose to pretend it won't happen to me.
18:33	technomancy	hokay
18:34	indigo	Heh, every day I program in PHP I think "I wish I could do this in a REPL"
18:34	technomancy	but if you can get a running repl to match what's on disk with refresh, can't you do that on the primary repl process?
18:34	bitemyapp	not to try to accommodate PHP "programming", but I'm pretty sure there are PHP REPL'ish things.
18:34	scriptor	indigo: there's one or two repl implementations for the php, aren't there?
18:35	indigo	scriptor & bitemyapp: There are, but they're not really there
18:35	recursor94	hiredman: Was that tooling comment directed towards me?
18:35	hiredman	recursor94: sure, or whoever
18:35	scriptor	indigo: are we talking existentialism now?
18:36	`cbp	sometimes you're just forced to write with outdated php that won't be able to use any 3rd party libraries
18:36	recursor94	oh okay. already have emacs and lein setup. I just need to learn the skill now.
18:36	indigo	scriptor: Just not as easy to use or complete as Clojure's :P
18:37	indigo	Then again, PHP doesn't really lend itself to REPL-based programming
18:38	indigo	Heh, when I showed my coworker a PHP repl I found he told me it was too bloated and that he could write one in five lines
18:38	scriptor	heh
18:39	scriptor	I bet that's going to include autocomplete and taking in statements over multiple lines, of course
18:39	indigo	And not crashing the entire REPL in case PHP has a fatal error
18:40	mtp	php often embodies a fatal error
18:40	indigo	Lmao
18:40	dobry-den	recursor94: clojure-contrib doesnt really come up for me in google searches, so if youre exposed to it, you may be following old tutorials. anything i've wanted from contrib has a maintained surrogate.
18:40	`cbp	lisp repl takes 4 symbols :-D
18:40	indigo	`cbp: Yeah, it's fantastic
18:46	recursor94	Is there a clojure irc bot library?
18:47	recursor94	I know of clojure bot.
18:47	recursor94	But I'm wondering if there are any true libraries
18:48	scriptor	try this https://github.com/flatland/irclj
18:48	logic_prog	is there a way to define a *.clj files that is used from both clj and cljs? (it's a set of helper functions / macros that are portable)
18:48	scriptor	(for future reference, I found it on http://www.clojure-toolbox.com/)
18:48	recursor94	Thank you scriptor.
18:49	nDuff	logic_prog: there are a few approaches; nothing I'd describe as _good_.
18:49	nDuff	logic_prog: ...see for instance https://github.com/lynaghk/cljx
18:49	logic_prog	how about a symbolic link? :-D
18:49	Jarda	hey guys, any feedback on https://gist.github.com/nnarhinen/6786086
18:49	gfredericks	I love how derive is side-effecting in the 2-arg version but not the 3-arg version.
18:49	logic_prog	lol
18:49	logic_prog	the problem to having two file extensions, is to invent a third file extension
18:50	nDuff	logic_prog: ...see also https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/blob/0.3.3/doc/CROSSOVERS.md
18:50	logic_prog	nDuff: is your nick based on duff's device?
18:50	nDuff	Nope.
18:50	mtp	HOW ABOUT DUFF BEER
18:50	mtp	oh
18:50	logic_prog	you know what?
18:50	logic_prog	the shared code is very small
18:50	logic_prog	I will keep two copies
18:50	Jarda	have I understood core.async channels right..
18:51	logic_prog	I'm suddenly very happy wtih slight code dup[lication
19:06	CommandBot	Greetings! Send me a PM and I'll echo it back to you. If it contains the word 'die', I'll die as a bonus!
19:07	akurilin	Sometimes I'm deeply confused by this channel.
19:07	akurilin	Between the bots and the starcraft guy, I just don't know.
19:08	TEttinger	&(apply str (map char (repeat 80 7)))
19:08	lazybot	⇒ ""
19:08	hyPiRion	akurilin: those things have happened very recently only, though
19:08	TEttinger	hm which is \07
19:09	akurilin	hyPiRion, is this Clojure hitting critical mass ?
19:09	TEttinger	,(apply str (map char (repeat 10 11)) "this char should really be stripped out")
19:09	clojurebot	"clojure.lang.LazySeq@42f449a1this char should really be stripped out"
19:10	bitemyapp	akurilin: we've had more people in the IRC channel than Scala for awhile.
19:10	TEttinger	,(apply str "this char should really be stripped out" (map char (repeat 10 11)))
19:10	clojurebot	"this char should really be stripped out"
19:10	TEttinger	if that displayed across multiple lines, congratulations, you have a nice client
19:11	hyPiRion	akurilin: gaining more traction, probably. Not sure if it's critical mass, but we're getting closer to it at least?
19:11	bitemyapp	if seangrove is to be believed, we need Rails first.
19:12	logic_prog	is clojure's cond guaranteed to be sequential?
19:12	logic_prog	(in the order the conditionals appear)
19:12	technomancy	yes
19:12	bitemyapp	logic_prog: http://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/cond
19:13	hyPiRion	according to the (doc cond), eys
19:13	logic_prog	technomancy, bitemyapp, hyPirion: noted, thanks
19:14	akurilin	bitemyapp, hyPiRion well if you were to use Hacker News as your only window into the world, you'd think that Clojure is hot as hell right now
19:14	akurilin	it's been sizzling hot in the past couple of months at least
19:14	hyPiRion	akurilin: and go, and any fancy JS thing
19:14	akurilin	oh Go, of course.
19:14	akurilin	let me check their channel
19:14	bitemyapp	What passes for fancy in JS-landia ain't fancy.
19:15	akurilin	I forgot SEO for that word.
19:15	TEttinger	https://attractivechaos.wordpress.com/2012/03/24/two-interesting-polls-on-programming-languages/
19:15	akurilin	Good gosh...
19:15	akurilin	840+
19:15	akurilin	so apparently the HN push is working for them.
19:17	hyPiRion	TEttinger: huh, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3746692 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3748961 isn't exactly the "truth" out there though. I didn't know of those polls beforen ow
19:19	hyPiRion	It would be more interesting to track submissions with a programming language in the title, and measure that
19:19	hyPiRion	granted, "Go" would have quite some false positives
19:21	TEttinger	I really liked Argo, it was a great film <-- vote for Go
19:21	TEttinger	I got an iPhone today! <-- vote for go
19:22	hyPiRion	TEttinger: you can probably do splits and stuff to only match for go and golang
19:23	TEttinger	I would hope so!
19:23	hyPiRion	I mean, C, D and J would obviously win otherwise
19:23	TEttinger	\bgo\b
19:23	TEttinger	haha
19:28	Morgawr	wow, I'm probably getting a brain fart at the moment but.. how do I remove a key/value pair from a simple map?
19:28	ambrosebs	Morgawr: dissoc
19:29	Morgawr	ambrosebs: damn, thanks!
19:29	Morgawr	ambrosebs: you're the one working on typed clojure, right?
19:30	ambrosebs	Morgawr: that's me
19:30	Morgawr	ambrosebs: great job, I love how it's coming up. I've always been fascinated by strong type systems like Haskell and having it fully integrated (and not forced) into clojure would be the best thing ever
19:31	ambrosebs	Morgawr: thanks! agreed
19:57	logic_prog	is there something like "flttten" but only does it one level?
19:57	logic_prog	concat
19:57	Apage43	mapcat identity?
19:58	logic_prog	logic_prog: thanks
19:58	technomancy	apply concat would be better I think
19:58	logic_prog	Apage43: that sounds equiv to concat
19:58	Apage43	,(mapcat identity [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 [8 9]]])
19:58	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 ...)
19:58	Apage43	,(apply concat [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 [8 9]]])
19:58	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 ...)
19:58	Apage43	yes
20:05	chord	lets talk about starcraft
20:07	technomancy	let's talk about how everyone would be a lot happier if chord either 0) changed his behaviour dramatically or 1) got kickbanned
20:07	arrdem	:D
20:08	chord	technomancy: I've been putting all this effort trying to understand starcraft 2 pathfinding why you guys all hate me
20:08	nDuff	technomancy: aren't you one of the people with the necessary ACL to implement (1)?
20:09	mtp	let's all upgrade to IRC clients with fools lists
20:09	mtp	chord‘ nobody likes you because you contribute nothing but noise and heat
20:09	arrdem	mtp: most support /ignore, which is close enough
20:09	mtp	try exhibiting a little bit of light
20:09	technomancy	nDuff: yes, but as a relatively new op I'm inclined to err on the side of grace
20:10	mtp	arrdem‘ ignore destroys the conversation whereas fools just hides the foolish text under the rug, to be swept out later
20:10	mtp	so no, it's not close enough
20:10	technomancy	nDuff: said policy is probably nearing its expiry though
20:10	mtp	sometimes, sweeping it under the rug /is/ the right thing to do
20:10	chord	mtp: once I have a working pathfinding are you going to admit you're wrong
20:14	indigo	mtp: TIL fools lists
20:15	mtp	indigo: they're the best thing for irc
20:15	bitemyapp	mtp: you can ignore replies, but there are still ghost conversations.
20:15	indigo	What IRC clients support it?
20:15	bitemyapp	indigo: irssi
20:15	indigo	Oh nice
20:15	indigo	I'm using that
20:15	arrdem	indigo: apparently ERC has one but I'm not using it
20:15	indigo	I assume it's a plugin
20:16	mtp	indigo: most of the emacs ones
20:16	mtp	circe supports it well
20:16	mtp	bitemyapp‘ there's the same problem with ignore, so...
20:16	Morgawr	man this is so weird.. I've been staring at this 1:1 copy/port of a java algorithm to clojure and in 90% of the cases the clojure one works properly but the sometimes it doesn't and reports wrong values.. I know you guys can't help me (too specific problem), but it's so frustrating :(
20:18	hyPiRion	Morgawr: take a break from it. grab a coffee or go to bed, depending on where you live
20:19	hyPiRion	Sometimes, the way to solve a problem is by not solving it.
20:19	mtp	smoke legal psychoactives
20:19	rasmusto	Morgawr: draw some diagrams and try to explain it verbally
20:20	Morgawr	hyPiRion: heh, I've been working on this thing for days, I took my fair share of breaks.. I've even re-written this algorithm 3 times (different code, no copying) and the same "bug" keeps presenting
20:20	hyPiRion	Morgawr: ah, that's tough
20:20	bitemyapp	Morgawr: hi
20:20	Morgawr	I just wanted to port a multithreaded implementation of a nested depth-first search algorithm for cycle detection, I wrote the sequential (non-multi) version in Java and Clojure, they work fine.
20:21	Morgawr	Wrote the multithreaded version in Java, it works as intended (I got the pseudocode and it's trivial to port)
20:21	Morgawr	I wrote the multithreaded clojure one... it works for 90% of the input, sometimes it just doesn't though and that's so frustrating
20:21	bitemyapp	Morgawr: poast coade.
20:22	Morgawr	http://pastie.org/private/f0m66s85ea3x6szmqk2gmw this is the algorithm and this is the reference paper http://www.cs.vu.nl/~tcs/cm/mc-nndfs.pdf with pseudocode
20:22	Morgawr	but yeah, it's just too specific for my case so I doubt anyone is able to help me
20:22	Morgawr	(and I don't expect you guys to, I was just ranting, sorry)
20:23	bitemyapp	Morgawr: working case and breaking case plz.
20:23	bitemyapp	also wtf pastie
20:23	bitemyapp	Morgawr: use refheap next time plz ;_;
20:23	Morgawr	be glad it's not pastebin :P
20:23	bitemyapp	those white-background pastebins burn my soul
20:24	Morgawr	working case... breaking case... it's hard to say, it's a very intensive and specific problem, it operates on promela graph generators on-the-fly so I don't really have a "breaking case"
20:24	bitemyapp	Morgawr: ...
20:24	Morgawr	which is why it's hard as hell to fix
20:24	chord	omg
20:24	bitemyapp	Morgawr: write unit tests that work and unit tests that break
20:24	bitemyapp	Morgawr: create a dumpable form of the data that is generated
20:24	Morgawr	can't do it in this case, sorry
20:24	bitemyapp	Morgawr: short-circuit on failure and dump the "world" given to you.
20:25	bitemyapp	Morgawr: if it's not a nuanced comprehension across terabytes of data (and even then) you can always dump fixture data.
20:25	Morgawr	how do you unit-test on a depth-first search algorithm that operates on data that is too big to fit in memory? The only thing you can test is if it returns "true" or "false" upon detecting a cycle (which is the point of the algorithm)
20:25	bitemyapp	Morgawr: the size doesn't matter!
20:25	technomancy	set your heap size very small? =)
20:26	bitemyapp	<3 technomancy
20:26	bitemyapp	Morgawr: make a tiny test-case that works. then make a tiny one that breaks.
20:27	bitemyapp	Morgawr: you cannot work on problems like this without reproducible tests and regressions.
20:27	Morgawr	it's okay, I don't expect anyone to help me, sorry
20:27	bitemyapp	Morgawr: you understand that your code breaks because of the nature of the data, not the size of it, right?
20:27	bitemyapp	Morgawr: at least chuck me the black-box magic generator you're using and the origin data.
20:29	Morgawr	bitemyapp: https://www.refheap.com/a2c864b3a316c7ae4170d1231 this is the input graph that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't (it's based on the shuffle operation in the post walk of the graph, which is there to ensure entropy when multiple threads walk the graph)
20:29	Morgawr	as I said, it's not testable
20:29	Morgawr	it either works or doesn't
20:29	bitemyapp	oh bullshit.
20:29	bitemyapp	you can produce regressions for non-deterministic sources of data through snapshotting.
20:30	Morgawr	you do realize that writing complex unit testing for this algorithm is actually harder and more troublesome (and more prone to errors) than actually finding the issue in the algorithm, right?
20:31	bitemyapp	reproducibility uber alles.
20:31	bitemyapp	Morgawr: doing things the right way is hard. News at 11.
20:31	Morgawr	you're missing the point though
20:31	bitemyapp	I almost always do.
20:31	Morgawr	this is a simple implementation of an algorithm, it's not some complex massive system for "production" (or whatever) that needs to be tested
20:32	Morgawr	either the algorithm is correct or is not
20:32	Morgawr	and in this case it's not
20:32	Morgawr	the way to fix it? look at the algorithm
20:32	Morgawr	it's justa graph traversal (double graph, but whatever)
20:33	bitemyapp	Morgawr: was this an exercise of some sort?
20:33	Morgawr	bitemyapp: the java part yes, it's part of my multithreading class
20:33	Morgawr	I'm expanding it because I want to see how clojure performs
20:34	Morgawr	it's not something that has anything to do (anymore) with my clas
20:34	Morgawr	class*
20:34	Morgawr	just doing it for fun
20:34	Morgawr	and to gather some performance comparisons
20:34	bitemyapp	ahhh paper starts out by mentioning the death of Moore's Law
20:34	bitemyapp	it's almost like academics have to justify making something multi-core/concurrent to their colleagues.
20:34	bitemyapp	Morgawr: well post the java code that works pelase.
20:34	bitemyapp	Morgawr: please*
20:35	rasmusto	heat death of the universe (cmos)
20:35	bitemyapp	Morgawr: also, was the second paste supposed to be generator? I want to be able to run this.
20:35	bitemyapp	be a generator*
20:36	Morgawr	https://www.refheap.com/5fce6f68da0fb9e5018c2c3b5 this is the java implementation, it's not that great and incomplete (didn't paste all the classes etc etc), it's just faster to read the actual paper pseudocode implementation which is where the clojure algorithm comes from
20:36	Morgawr	and yeah, that was the graph generator, it's a promela file and is read into memory and generates a spinja graph or whatever (not familiar with that stuff tbh, it's just the input model that was provided and is not relevant)
20:37	bitemyapp	Morgawr: can you just put this into a github that 'runs'?
20:38	bitemyapp	Morgawr: or am I just going to have to try to reproduce your environment through guessing?
20:38	mtp	why do i have an empty pm window on my screen all of a sudden???
20:38	lazybot	mtp: How could that be wrong?
20:38	Morgawr	it's okay, I appreciate the help but I can't really be arsed to put everything on github, I'll just try to fix the weird issue (it's most likely a shitty typo I made or something)
20:38	bitemyapp	Morgawr: come back with the answer when you have one please.
20:38	Morgawr	don't take it wrong bitemyapp, I do appreciate the help
20:39	Morgawr	I certainly will
20:39	bitemyapp	Morgawr: I just want to know the answerrrrr ;_;
20:39	bitemyapp	Morgawr: thank you :)
20:48	seangrov`	Hrm, think I'm about 40% done porting the rails app to clojure after ~1.5 days. I assume the last 10% will be killer as always, but it's been a fun exercise.
20:50	chord	can anyone hear me?
20:50	akurilin	Just wanted to let you guys know that the clojure cookbook stuff is super awesome, the contributors and awesome, and you guys should keep making more of them if you know what you're doing.
20:51	akurilin	<3
20:52	chord	which clojure cookbook
20:52	akurilin	No idea how I'm ever going to pay it forward for all the stuff you people put together...
20:53	dobry-den	someone posted this in r/clojure: http://i.imgur.com/4avtGfg.gif
20:55	technomancy	dobry-den: ooh; /me does grabby-hands
20:55	dobry-den	it's hickey after some hammock-time
20:55	technomancy	it will go well with my collection: http://p.hagelb.org/9grin.gif http://p.hagelb.org/10sad.gif
20:56	ambrosebs	hahaha
20:56	arrdem	/11-rhicky.gif?
20:57	bitemyapp	akurilin: I'm working on the Korma chapter of the cookbook right now
20:57	bitemyapp	I'm also going fucking mad trying to idiot proof it.
20:58	bitemyapp	I would just like to state that H2 sucks.
20:58	indigo	I don't understand why everyone uses H2
20:58	indigo	Why not use SQLite instead
20:58	`cbp	:P I use h2
20:58	technomancy	indigo: sqlite's jdbc drivers are junk
20:59	akurilin	bitemyapp, if you want me to proof-read it I can try to help, although I'm not very useful on the technical side since I haven't used it at all yet.
20:59	dobry-den	datomic-free uses h2 ;)
20:59	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
20:59	technomancy	they don't work concurrently, even though the underlying DB does
20:59	bitemyapp	akurilin: yes, you can be my test subject.
20:59	hiredman	h2 also has concurrency issues
20:59	akurilin	bitemyapp, I gotta learn it anyway so, might as well.
20:59	hiredman	(use derby)
20:59	akurilin	*updates todo list.
20:59	bitemyapp	hiredman: derby is slow. I'd rather go fast and break things. It's what Zuckerberg sed.
20:59	akurilin	ok
21:00	bitemyapp	If that last statement made your eye twitch, please (inc bitemyapp)
21:00	kcin	j #lowendbox
21:00	akurilin	bitemyapp, is the chapter up on github already or are you hugging at atm?
21:00	`cbp	(inc callen)
21:00	lazybot	⇒ 15
21:01	hiredman	when h2 throws exceptions due to concurrent access, you can't go fast enough to break anything
21:01	dobry-den	indigo: isnt topic difference that h2 is a java lib while sqlite is a c lib?
21:02	dobry-den	topical
21:03	`cbp	(inc bitemyapp) ; ahem quite the typo there
21:03	lazybot	⇒ 1
21:15	bitemyapp	You know how I know this Clojure Cookbook is going to be good?
21:15	bitemyapp	{:NAME "Dmitri" :TENTACLES false}
21:15	bitemyapp	because tentacles are involved.
21:15	bitemyapp	Always a good time.
21:30	LordQuas	Is clojure-mode + nrepl the preferred way to do clojure with emacs?
21:30	LordQuas	\join #emacs
21:30	rasmusto	LordQuas: grab paredit.el too
21:32	LordQuas	yup yup, used to it with elisp editing. I read some posts about slime and wondered which was better
21:32	rasmusto	nrepl is the new standard afaik
21:33	LordQuas	Gotcha, thanks.
21:33	LordQuas	Oh and what about ritz?
21:33	rasmusto	LordQuas: I have this thing if you want something to look at: https://github.com/rasmusto/vim-emacs-clojure-starter-kit
21:33	rasmusto	LordQuas: can't speak to ritz
21:35	LordQuas	rasmusto: Thank you, I will gladly plunder this =D
21:35	rasmusto	LordQuas: I just learned emacs a few weeks ago, so don't take anything as doctorine ;p
21:36	technomancy	the guide on clojure-doc.org is very good too http://clojure-doc.org/articles/tutorials/emacs.html
21:36	technomancy	if vebose
21:43	bitemyapp	H2's capitalization bullshit is really ruining my day.
21:44	bitemyapp	of course, Korma already has something for this and I was being a moron.
21:49	TimMc	bitemyapp: Technically, tentacles aren't involved.
21:49	TimMc	It says so right there, :TENTACLES false.
21:51	bitemyapp	TimMc: the faces I am making at you right now would crack a mirror.
21:56	devn	in-place fisher-yates -- got a good clojure version?
22:02	devn	my versions all look nasty
22:03	Apage43	heh
22:04	Apage43	i decided to look at clojure.core/shuffle
22:04	Apage43	it just calls java.util.Collections/shuffle
22:04	Apage43	(after dumping the collection into an ArrayList
22:21	amalloy	devn: i have one in useful
22:22	amalloy	aside from the poor decision i made to combine lazy-shuffle with take into a single take-shuffled, https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/flatland/useful/seq.clj#L149 is IMO pretty good
22:36	gfredericks	,(format "lib-%04d" (rand-int 10000))
22:36	clojurebot	"lib-7607"
22:39	mercwithamouth	how would one go about calculating an average functionally?
22:40	gfredericks	(fn avg [nums] {:pre [(seq nums)]} (/ (apply + nums) (count nums)))
22:41	mercwithamouth	gfredericks: o_O
22:41	gfredericks	something wrong?
22:41	mercwithamouth	not that i would know =P
22:41	mercwithamouth	trying it out now
22:42	mercwithamouth	what does ':pre' do?
22:43	gfredericks	it's a precondition; if (seq nums) is falsy, i.e. if nums is empty, it will throw an assertion error
22:43	mercwithamouth	ahh i see
22:43	gfredericks	slightly more readable is {:pre [(not (empty? nums))]}, but we have this silly idiom
22:44	mercwithamouth	hrmm any way to do it parallel?
22:44	gfredericks	use reducers for the apply + I guess
22:44	mercwithamouth	<- not a math person but discussing an issue with a friend
22:45	gfredericks	if you're thinking about functional programming abstractly, the parallelism is somewhat of an implementation detail
22:45	gfredericks	but yes the addition part is parallelizable
22:47	mercwithamouth	hrmm
22:49	mercwithamouth	gfredericks: and is that possible without keeping a count? holding state?
22:50	gfredericks	um. huh? yes? not sure what you mean exactly.
22:50	`cbp	I gotta say multiple cursors on emacs is the sexiest thing
22:50	`cbp	especially with paredit omg
22:55	ghadi	Before I try to get help for a possible lein bug, I want to thank technomancy and all the leiningen contributors for such a fine tool.
22:56	ghadi	I think there is an issue with two dependencies that silently shadow each other
22:57	ghadi	clojurescript 0.0-1909 requires tools.reader, as does clj-http 0.7.x
22:58	ghadi	When you list both of them in :dependencies and then run lein deps :tree to find conflicts, tools.reader only shows up as a transitive dep of clojurescript, not of clj-http
22:59	gfredericks	that might be expected
22:59	ghadi	but when you require the clojurescript code -- it silently picks up the incompatible tools.reader version that clj-http uses, and barfs out on arity on a constructor
22:59	ghadi	hi gary
22:59	gfredericks	hi
22:59	gfredericks	ghadi
23:00	gfredericks	oh wait so you're saying the tree prints it under one but it's actually using the version required by the other?
23:00	ghadi	si senor
23:00	gfredericks	does tree print a version for tools.reader?
23:01	hiredman	ghadi: what version of tools.reader shows up in lein classpath?
23:01	gfredericks	(`lein classpath`)
23:02	ghadi	lein deps :tree shows tools.reader under clojurescript as the latest ver (0.7.8) but classpath shows 0.7.7
23:02	ghadi	no conflict warning on lein deps :tree
23:04	ghadi	in clj-http's pom, tools.reader is listed with a org.clojure/clojure exclusion
23:05	ghadi	in clojurescript's pom, no exclusion -- not sure if this fact matters, but it's a fact
23:06	ghadi	[org.clojure/clojurescript "0.0-1909"]
23:06	ghadi	[clj-http "0.7.7"] you can reproduce the behavior with these deps in an empty project
23:07	gfredericks	this is out of my realm of expertise; if nobody else is around I'm sure a github issue would be appreciated
23:09	ghadi	I'll open one up. thanks
23:11	AieshaDot	t
23:14	dobry-den	How come running mvn goals from ~ dir don't complain about pom.xml but they do in non-~ folders
23:16	ghadi	Lucky issue # https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1337
23:16	gfredericks	ghadi: you get internet money!
23:16	ghadi	what do I win
23:16	gfredericks	1337 internet dollars
23:17	gfredericks	redeemable at your local internet location
23:17	TEttinger	http://i.imgur.com/dOLkgVR.png <-- not related to issue #1337, but relevant to some questions we've had in here lately
23:25	gfredericks	so I was trying to be helpful to myself by throwing an ex-info from one of my test helpers
23:25	gfredericks	with stuff that I could use to debug why the test failed
23:26	gfredericks	but I'm not sure clojure.test is going to let me see the exception?
23:29	logic_prog	is there a way to tell "lein cljsbuild auto" to also "require main.clj" ?
23:36	ddellacosta	logic_prog: why do you need main.clj? Is it crossover code? If so, just put it in the source-paths list
23:37	logic_prog	no
23:37	logic_prog	I just want a single lein
23:37	logic_prog	that both runs my clojure server and also do "cljsbuild auto"
23:38	technomancy	logic_prog: trampoline combines chained tasks
23:38	technomancy	`lein trampoline do run -m my.main, cljsbuild auto`
23:38	technomancy	"When in doubt, use combinators."
23:42	muhoo	why combinators?
23:42	logic_prog	technomancy: who are you and what makes you qualified?
23:42	logic_prog	I'm kidding, it worked, thanks. :-)
23:42	gfredericks	combinators are the monads of programming
23:43	logic_prog	ha ha
23:43	logic_prog	Y Combinators
23:43	logic_prog	:-)
23:51	logic_prog	when I do (:require-macros [blahblah :as ..]), does it only pull in defmacros or does it pull in defns too ?
23:54	gfredericks	pulling in defns wouldn't make sense? because it's compile-time?
23:54	gfredericks	the defns are written in clojure presumably, not clojurescript