2013-06-20
| 00:15 | tomjack | derek_c: I'm guessing you mean the asterisks in particular? |
| 00:16 | tomjack | it doesn't really mean anything in clojure, it's just a convention |
| 00:16 | tomjack | conventionally, it means that the variable is dynamic |
| 00:17 | tomjack | which in turn basically means it can be used with the binding macro |
| 00:18 | TimMc | They're called earmuffs, and the compiler will chide you a little if you use them on anything but a dynamic var. |
| 00:18 | TimMc | Or rather, on a non-dynamic var. I don't think it cares in the slightest if you use them on locals. |
| 00:18 | TimMc | And yes, it's syntactically irrelevant. |
| 00:23 | derek_c | I see. Thanks! |
| 00:24 | derek_c | has anyone here used Ojo for monitoring file system events? |
| 00:36 | tomjack | readme says "use defwatch". interesting. |
| 00:57 | technomancy | the starter kit is totally overrated |
| 00:58 | technomancy | too much magic |
| 00:58 | brehaut | wait, isnt it your starter kit? |
| 00:59 | technomancy | yeah, I wouldn't diss it so blatantly if it weren't |
| 01:00 | brehaut | fair |
| 01:00 | technomancy | https://github.com/technomancy/better-defaults <- much better starting place |
| 01:01 | brehaut | i fear i am going to be finagling my emacs config again |
| 01:03 | tomjack | the x clipboard thing is very interesting.. |
| 01:05 | tomjack | I've been fighting with everything that isn't conkeror or urxvt for a long time over the clipboard |
| 01:06 | brehaut | technomancy: so instead of starter kit, you just dump this into init.el and then use packages for everything else? |
| 01:08 | gt` | hi need some help on appengine-magic |
| 01:09 | brehaut | ~anyone |
| 01:09 | clojurebot | Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..." |
| 01:10 | ddellacosta | is there a way to move to different lein projects in a single repl session? |
| 01:10 | ddellacosta | …without killing it and cd'ing to that directory, then running lein repl again? |
| 01:11 | gt` | doing a project here is the project.clj |
| 01:11 | gt` | (defproject my-exams "0.1.0-SNAPSHOT" |
| 01:11 | gt` | :description "FIXME: write description" |
| 01:11 | gt` | :url "http://example.com/FIXME" |
| 01:11 | gt` | :license {:name "Eclipse Public License" |
| 01:11 | gt` | :url "http://www.eclipse.org/legal/epl-v10.html"} |
| 01:11 | gt` | :repositories {"releases" "http://appengine-magic-mvn.googlecode.com/svn/releases/" |
| 01:11 | gt` | "snapshots" "http://appengine-magic-mvn.googlecode.com/svn/snapshots/"} |
| 01:11 | gt` | :dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure "1.5.1"] |
| 01:11 | gt` | [appengine-magic "0.4.6-SNAPSHOT"]] |
| 01:11 | tomjack | ddellacosta: I don't think so, but why? |
| 01:11 | gt` | :plugins [[appengine-magic "0.4.6-SNAPSHOT"]]) |
| 01:11 | gt` | |
| 01:11 | gt` | lein debs and all the library are downloaded |
| 01:11 | gt` | when i lein appengine-new i am getting some error |
| 01:11 | ddellacosta | gt`: in general, good practice to put it in a gist/refheap |
| 01:12 | tomjack | are you working on a fixed small set of libraries? |
| 01:12 | ddellacosta | tomjack: for example, I'm doing testing now, and I'm using multiple libraries |
| 01:12 | tomjack | or just want to be able to switch easy |
| 01:12 | ddellacosta | tomjack: jinx |
| 01:12 | ddellacosta | heh |
| 01:12 | gt` | making a skeleton for a Google App Engine application |
| 01:12 | gt` | java.lang.NullPointerException |
| 01:12 | gt` | at java.io.File.<init>(File.java:251) |
| 01:12 | gt` | at sun.reflect.NativeConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance0(Native Method) |
| 01:12 | tomjack | do you know about checkouts? |
| 01:12 | gt` | at sun.reflect.NativeConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance(NativeConstructorAccessorImpl.java:57) |
| 01:12 | gt` | at sun.reflect.DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance(DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.java:45) |
| 01:12 | gt` | at java.lang.reflect.Constructor.newInstance(Constructor.java:525) |
| 01:12 | gt` | at clojure.lang.Reflector.invokeConstructor(Reflector.java:180) |
| 01:12 | gt` | at leiningen.appengine_new$appengine_new.invoke(appengine_new.clj:47) |
| 01:12 | ddellacosta | tomjack: hmm, maybe that would work…I want to test different namespaces in the repl, so I guess that would suffice |
| 01:13 | ddellacosta | gt`: please use https://www.refheap.com |
| 01:13 | gt` | ok |
| 01:13 | ddellacosta | do not cut and paste tons of code and output into IRC please. |
| 01:13 | gt` | oh ok sorry |
| 01:14 | ddellacosta | you'll get a better response that way too. ;-) |
| 01:14 | tomjack | I use checkouts all the time for e.g. testing changes in one core library while I'm using them in another library |
| 01:14 | gt` | :) thanks |
| 01:14 | ddellacosta | tomjack: okay, that's a good idea, I just didn't think of it. Let me give it a shot--thanks! |
| 01:17 | gt` | so my problem is when i am lein appengine-new why do i have errors ? |
| 01:19 | ddellacosta | gt`: at the risk of being "that guy," do you really need to use app-engine? It's definitely a less well-supported environment within the Clojure community, in my experience, and the appengine-magic lib doesn't seem to get a lot of updates recently (and is still labelled experimental it would seem). |
| 01:21 | ddellacosta | that aside, it looks like you've got an older version--try updating to 0.5.0? |
| 01:22 | gt` | ddellocosta: I wanted to experiment with something writing an app on GAE |
| 01:23 | ddellacosta | gt`: yeah, the first thing I would try is seeing if 0.5.0 helps, as you are two versions back, it would seem |
| 01:23 | gt` | ddelocosta: any other way of doing it which is well supported is welcome |
| 01:24 | gt` | ddelocosta: let me try with 0.5.0 thanks |
| 01:25 | ddellacosta | gt`: if you *do* have the flexibility, and just want to deploy *somewhere*, definitely take a look at Heroku--they make it easy: https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/clojure |
| 01:25 | ddellacosta | gt`: in any case, good luck! |
| 01:38 | ddellacosta | tomjack: yeah, that didn't work unfortunately, can't get to my test namespaces in checkout projects |
| 01:38 | ddellacosta | ah well |
| 01:40 | tomjack | strange |
| 01:40 | tomjack | I see test dirs on my classpath for my checkotus |
| 01:41 | tomjack | just to confirm, you added a dependency in project.clj with a matching version (potentially requiring `lein install` in the checked-out project), and put a symlink in ./checkouts ? |
| 01:42 | tomjack | (that the version matches shouldn't really matter unless you changed deps since last version) |
| 01:44 | ddellacosta | tomjack: if I use lein install, then I shouldn't need to have it in checkouts, no? |
| 01:44 | ddellacosta | also, I should be clear how I'm using it: I'm trying to load my tests into the repl, and run my tests that way |
| 01:44 | ddellacosta | my end goal is to run multiple projects tests in one repl session |
| 01:45 | tomjack | hmm |
| 01:45 | tomjack | and are you going to be editing the code for any of these projects? |
| 01:46 | ddellacosta | tomjack: yeah, the item I'm working now has functionality which needs to be implemented across a few libraries--so I'm testing in one, then moving to the next library, testing there, etc. |
| 01:46 | tomjack | well you'd need checkouts to be able to switch to editing another library without starting a new repl |
| 01:47 | ddellacosta | tomjack: yeah, and I think that part of it works--changes get picked up without needing to run lein install |
| 01:47 | ddellacosta | but it I can't figure out how to expose my test namespaces in the checked-out project to my main repl session |
| 01:47 | ddellacosta | I mean, not such a big deal, just wanted some extra convenience. ;-) |
| 01:48 | tomjack | if you were able to edit the checked-out project, must be set up right. strange, it should just work |
| 01:49 | ddellacosta | meh, I'll keep playing with it. If you've gotten it to work in the past it must just be something weird with my setup then. |
| 01:49 | ddellacosta | in any case, thanks for helping me to get it working. |
| 01:50 | tomjack | confirmed I can require clojure.core.async-test with core.async in checkouts, but it has an explicit :test-paths in project.clj |
| 01:50 | tomjack | that wouldn't seem to matter |
| 02:39 | asura | I'm learning Clojure and I'm having an issue mapping an anonymouse function... I have a simple function defined... (defn is-factor? [[product factor]] (= (mod product factor) 0)) |
| 02:39 | asura | this function works when applied to a literal list, as in: (map #(is-factor? [10 %]) '(1 2 3 4 5 6)) |
| 02:39 | asura | but not for: (map #(is-factor? 10 %) (take 5 (iterate inc 0))) |
| 02:41 | racycle | asura: are you missing the [10 %] ? |
| 02:42 | asura | oops, I'm not, but I removed the brackets testing a moment ago. |
| 02:46 | racycle | the second produces a 0 while the first doesn't |
| 02:46 | racycle | use inc 1 insread |
| 02:46 | racycle | instead |
| 02:48 | racycle | iterate: Returns a lazy sequence of x, (f x), (f (f x)) |
| 02:48 | asura | Aha! I guess it's some kind of silent div/0 error from the mod? |
| 02:48 | racycle | yepp |
| 02:49 | asura | Cool, thanks for your help! |
| 02:49 | racycle | np |
| 02:52 | derek_c | I might be missing something obvious here, but I have this java method that has this signature: |
| 02:53 | derek_c | register(WatchService watcher, WatchEvent.Kind<?>... events) |
| 02:53 | derek_c | so it takes in a variable amount of parameters |
| 02:53 | derek_c | now I have this Clojure array of parameters. how do I call this function with these parameters? |
| 02:55 | ddellacosta | derek_c: (.register instance param1 param2 param3 …) |
| 02:55 | ddellacosta | derek_c: check this out too, it has examples for most of this kind of thing: http://clojure.org/java_interop |
| 03:17 | derek_c | ddellacosta: but I have an array, like [param1 param2 param3] |
| 03:17 | derek_c | how do I put them into the parameter list? |
| 03:18 | ddellacosta | derek_c: so, you want to use the contents of that array each as individual parameters/ |
| 03:18 | ddellacosta | ? |
| 03:18 | ddellacosta | then it has nothing to do with Java, just to be clear--you want apply |
| 03:18 | ddellacosta | &(doc apply) |
| 03:18 | lazybot | ⇒ "([f args] [f x args] [f x y args] [f x y z args] [f a b c d & args]); Applies fn f to the argument list formed by prepending intervening arguments to args." |
| 03:19 | derek_c | ddellacosta: ah right! forgot about apply |
| 03:19 | derek_c | thanks! |
| 03:19 | ddellacosta | not sure but you may need to do something like pass the java method to partial first, so you can pass it to apply |
| 03:19 | ddellacosta | but in any case, you're welcome! ;-) |
| 03:21 | murtaza52 | how do I convert text into clojure data (read "[:a :b]") => [:a :b] |
| 03:24 | ddellacosta | murtaza52: you can use read-string for a small string |
| 03:24 | ddellacosta | &(read-string "[:a :b]") |
| 03:24 | lazybot | ⇒ [:a :b] |
| 03:25 | ddellacosta | this is a good article on the subject, btw: http://copperthoughts.com/p/clojure-io-p1/ |
| 03:26 | murtaza52 | thanks |
| 03:27 | murtaza52 | If I do - (def a (future (iterate inc 1)) |
| 03:27 | murtaza52 | and then (future-cancel a) => false |
| 03:28 | murtaza52 | shouldnt it give me true, bcoz its an infinite seq ? |
| 03:56 | noncom | how do i say that function takes an arbitrary map, without passing a map explicitly? example: (my-fun :a 1 :b 2), i tried like (defn my-fun [& {m}]) but does not work |
| 03:57 | s-h | (defn my-fun [& {:keys [a b]}] (...)) |
| 03:57 | noncom | s-h: yeah, but the point is that idk what keys will be there |
| 03:58 | s-h | noncom: well then you _have_ to wrap it in a map |
| 03:59 | noncom | s-h: how do you think, will (den my-fun [{:as m}] ...) work? |
| 03:59 | noncom | oh forgot & |
| 04:00 | s-h | without specifying any keys at all? |
| 04:00 | s-h | ..never tried that before :P |
| 04:00 | noncom | s-h: yeah, i just want to avoid using unnecessary {} when passing params |
| 04:00 | noncom | hey, the thing with :as worx :D |
| 04:00 | s-h | cool :-) |
| 04:23 | echo-area | Does anyone know what could be the possible reason that an HTTP service provided by ring-jetty-adapter can't be accessed from a foreign host? It already listens on 0.0.0.0. |
| 04:23 | brainproxy | echo-area: how are you trying to access it? |
| 04:24 | brainproxy | possibly a CORS issue if you're doing browser XHR |
| 04:24 | echo-area | In many ways. One of them is "wget -O - http://IP:PORT/" |
| 04:24 | brainproxy | have you checked the firewall settings of the machine running the http server? |
| 04:24 | brainproxy | maybe the port is blocked |
| 04:44 | echo-area | brainproxy: Checked with iptables -L, didn't see any. |
| 04:45 | arcatan | can you e.g. ping the machine? |
| 04:46 | echo-area | Yes |
| 04:46 | echo-area | And 80 and 8080 are accessible |
| 04:47 | echo-area | I'm using port 3000, which is inaccessible |
| 04:48 | mpenet | that screams for a fwd issue |
| 04:48 | mpenet | firewall |
| 04:48 | mpenet | maybe not locally, but upstream |
| 04:48 | mpenet | dunno how's your network |
| 05:08 | hyPiRion | amalloy_: It is also the fourth diagonal of pascal's triangle |
| 05:14 | loz | do string are collections of characters in clojure? |
| 05:16 | RCarter | Hi everybody |
| 05:20 | Blkt | good day everyone |
| 05:22 | noncom | loz: they're java strings. check this out http://clojure.org/data_structures |
| 05:24 | vijaykiran | ,(first "one") |
| 05:24 | clojurebot | \o |
| 05:24 | vijaykiran | loz: alomost :) ^ |
| 05:30 | RCarter | Hello, I'm learning Clojure and I would like to try integrate clojure with ZK Framework (www.zkoss.org), can I ask you some question about this? |
| 05:31 | vijaykiran | RCarter: "Don't ask to ask; just ask" :) |
| 05:33 | hyPiRion | ~anyone |
| 05:33 | clojurebot | Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..." |
| 05:33 | hyPiRion | ^ |
| 05:33 | loz | you know, clojurescript works :D |
| 05:47 | RCarter | ZK is a web framework in Java, you have to configure the usual web.xml file, write some xml file that will be render as html by the framework, and you have to provide some Java class that will be used as ViewModel. I would like to write ViewModel classes in Clojure (maybe writing some macros to eliminate the boilerplate). The question is I don't know how to setup a web application "the ugly way", using a provided web.xml, where to put xm |
| 05:47 | RCarter | templating files etc. Is there some article I can read about this? |
| 05:48 | vijaykiran | RCarter: Do you have a javadoc of the ViewModel class ? |
| 05:48 | vijaykiran | RCarter: first step is to start with Clojure's java interop documentation |
| 05:48 | pledias | Hi! Should I use Carmine 2.0.0-alpha1, if I just want to do basic Redis stuff reliably? (Not the fancy Tundra stuff.) |
| 05:48 | antares_ | pledias: you should probably use an earlier Carmine version |
| 05:49 | RCarter | I also don't know if it's better to try to integrate ZK in a ring webbapp or to setup the web app in the usual way (java) and to use Clojure generated classes for ViewModels |
| 05:49 | antares_ | I'm sure Carmine 2.0.0-alpha1 works well but things may change a lot to alpha2 |
| 05:49 | pledias | antares_: Ok, thanks. I'll use 1.12.0 then. |
| 05:49 | mpenet | unless you are using the exotic stuff it should be backward compatible |
| 05:49 | mpenet | and stable |
| 05:49 | mpenet | but better be safe antares_ is right |
| 05:50 | RCarter | @vijaykiran Thanks, a ViewModel is a simple POJO with some annotations |
| 05:50 | pledias | mpenet: Thanks, good point. |
| 05:50 | RCarter | http://books.zkoss.org/wiki/ZK_Developer's_Reference/MVVM/ViewModel |
| 05:53 | vijaykiran | RCarter: I'd suggest starting with just using clojure to write ViewModels |
| 05:53 | vijaykiran | RCarter: I think you can specify annotations using metadata - never used it, so not sure |
| 05:58 | RCarter | vijaykiran: thanks again, will look at that |
| 06:19 | noncom | how often do you find yourself writing thin wrappers in Clojure and ClojureScript? is it ok to write thin wrappers? I usually collect all wrapping functions in one spot, and in other places i can avoid using the dot-notation, making the code lookmore lispish. Does this give a serious overhead and is this considered a good practice? |
| 06:20 | noncom | like, i do a wrapper (defn do-that [x] (.doThat x)) |
| 06:20 | noncom | this kind of thing |
| 06:20 | mpenet | very often |
| 06:21 | mpenet | it's a good way to avoid type hinting all over the place too |
| 06:21 | noncom | ah yes, type hints go there too |
| 06:21 | mpenet | in cljs it will be "simplified" at compile time anyway, so it has no cost |
| 06:22 | mpenet | well I think so at least, I haven't used cljs in a little while |
| 06:22 | noncom | actually,now i think that these wrappers better be macros, in Clojure at least |
| 06:23 | mpenet | defeats the goal to make them composable |
| 06:23 | mpenet | so imho no |
| 06:23 | noncom | you're right - inlining is the best choice here |
| 06:24 | noncom | hmmm.. |
| 06:24 | noncom | yes, youre right.. |
| 06:46 | RCarter | vijaykiran: It's working! https://github.com/mbarbieri/cloj-zk |
| 06:47 | vijaykiran | RCarter: awesome :) with Annotations ? |
| 06:48 | RCarter | not yet |
| 06:48 | RCarter | will try soon |
| 06:48 | RCarter | vijaykiran: Clojure = Teleportation so true! |
| 06:52 | vijaykiran | RCarter: :) - why ZK ? Enterprise requirements ? |
| 06:53 | RCarter | vijaykiran: yep, but I really like it, for enterprisey apps is very cool |
| 06:54 | RCarter | vijaykiran: and I suck at HTML/CSS |
| 06:54 | loz | you can generate at least html from clojure |
| 06:54 | loz | not sure about css |
| 06:55 | vijaykiran | loz: https://github.com/noprompt/garden |
| 06:56 | vijaykiran | But I don't use them - I prefer HTML/CSS to be - in HTML/CSS, easy to work with "design" |
| 06:56 | RCarter | loz: I can write html and css, but only ugly pages :( |
| 06:56 | loz | well you need a designer :D |
| 06:56 | vijaykiran | or Bootstrap/Foundation :) |
| 06:57 | RCarter | loz: agree :) |
| 06:57 | loz | vijaykiran: foundation? is it set of templates like bootstrap? |
| 06:57 | RCarter | vijaykiran: I know, but zk has lots of enterprise components, and fully ajax |
| 06:57 | vijaykiran | loz: http://foundation.zurb.com/ |
| 06:57 | RCarter | vijaykiran: and open source |
| 06:58 | vijaykiran | RCarter: true. the tables and charts and others - I'm kinda favoring Primefaces at the moment |
| 06:58 | vijaykiran | RCarter: Used ExtJs in the past |
| 06:59 | RCarter | vijaykiran: I like primefaces too |
| 07:00 | RCarter | vijaykiran: wait, are you using primefaces + clojure? |
| 07:00 | vijaykiran | RCarter: ah - no - not yet. It is just a JEE App |
| 07:00 | clojurebot | Ik begrijp |
| 07:00 | RCarter | vijaykiran: ah, so you have a job :D |
| 07:03 | vijaykiran | RCarter: yup |
| 07:38 | Morgawr | I have a question, if I want to access a keyword from javascript (clojurescript here), do I need to use "\ufdd0mykeyword" or "\ufdd0:mykeword"? |
| 07:49 | dnolen_ | Morgawr: depending on the representation of keywords is not a good idea - likely to change |
| 07:50 | dnolen_ | Morgawr: I recommend making a helper and exporting it so you can write keyword("foo") from JS to avoid future breakage |
| 08:06 | cemerick | dnolen_: is dynamic extension of types to protocols off the table for cljs? |
| 08:07 | dnolen_ | cemerick: what do you mean? |
| 08:08 | cemerick | dnolen_: extend to Object, then conditionally extend to the concrete type based on marker predicates, e.g. seq? |
| 08:08 | dnolen_ | cemerick: you absolute cannot extend to Object |
| 08:08 | dnolen_ | massive breakage will ensue |
| 08:09 | dnolen_ | do you mean the primitive object special case? |
| 08:09 | cemerick | yes; just trying to translate my Clojureisms here. |
| 08:10 | cemerick | Specifically, (extend-protocol P (type x) ....) doesn't work. I suspect it never will? |
| 08:11 | dnolen_ | cemerick: no I don't see a reason for that not to work, dynamic extension should work just like it does in Clojure |
| 08:11 | dnolen_ | cemerick: if it doesn't work it just hasn't been worked on |
| 08:11 | cemerick | heh, ok |
| 08:11 | cemerick | the above is an analysis error at the moment |
| 08:12 | dnolen_ | cemerick: yeah that's likely, will need to dive into some gnarly stuff to fix that |
| 08:13 | dnolen_ | cemerick: been hoping Bendlas would submit his refactor but I haven't seen anything yet |
| 08:13 | cemerick | dnolen_: oh, is that a gsoc that may produce an impl/solution here? |
| 08:14 | dnolen_ | cemerick: unrelated to gsoc, Bendlas was working on a specify patch - instance level extend-type |
| 08:14 | dnolen_ | which would massively rock |
| 08:19 | Kototama | dnolen_: hello, do you know of any changes in ClojureScript that could have introduce this bug https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/issues/203 ? |
| 08:20 | cemerick | dnolen_: dunno, I wouldn't expect the dynamic twiddling of prototypes to survive advanced compilation... |
| 08:20 | dnolen_ | Kototama: hmm nothing comes to mind but it's certainly possible |
| 08:21 | dnolen_ | cemerick: I don't see why not, it's not being done with strings |
| 08:23 | dnolen_ | Kototama: if it is a ClojureScript bug a patch is most welcome. Probably easiest thing to do is git bisect on ClojureScript to figure out which commit borked it |
| 08:24 | Kototama | dnolen_: i see. I will try to find some time to do that |
| 08:25 | dnolen_ | Kototama: it's hard to tell where the problem might be though from the ticket. Best would be a minimal project demonstrating the issue |
| 08:26 | dnolen_ | Kototama: you can follow the instructions here to build the minimal against a local checkout of ClojureScript - https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/Patches |
| 08:26 | dnolen_ | "the minimal project" |
| 08:27 | dnolen_ | Kototama: so then you can easily git bisect between the version of CLJS pinned to 0.3.0 and the version of CLJS pinned to 0.3.2 to figure out what happened |
| 08:28 | Kototama | dnolen_: ok. thank you for the help |
| 08:29 | dnolen_ | Kototama: I'm somewhat surprised I haven't heard about this sooner as CLJS users seem to follow cljsbuild quite closely |
| 08:30 | dnolen_ | Kototama: probably worth at least mentioning the issue on the ClojureScript Google Group to make sure |
| 08:34 | tjb1982 | cemerick: I made another example for the friend-demo site. I wasn't sure if I did the fork/pull request thing right (I've never contributed to another project on github before) |
| 08:35 | cemerick | tjb1982: yes, I saw :-) I just haven't gotten to looking at it yet |
| 08:36 | tjb1982 | no rush. I just wanted to make sure I did the pull request the right way |
| 08:41 | Kototama | dnolen_: I got this error when compiling http://pastebin.com/gXkmRDEC |
| 08:46 | dnolen_ | Kototama: yes that looks like weird interaction between cljsbuild and the compiler |
| 08:47 | dnolen_ | Kototama: that stack trace is somewhat informative - probably best to produce a minimal reproducible project and attach it to the cljsbuild issue |
| 08:48 | Kototama | i see |
| 08:48 | dnolen_ | Kototama: given that it starts in lein cljsbuild I'm sure Evan can see the issue quickly and determine if it's something I need to look at |
| 08:49 | dnolen_ | Kototama: I chimed in on the cljsbuild ticket |
| 08:50 | Kototama | that's nice from you, i'm going to build a small project and try reproduce the problem |
| 08:57 | cemerick | dnolen_: hah, it's actually not that hard to "fix", if you don't count emitting perhaps-nonsense :tag metadata :-P |
| 09:00 | jweiss | i have a bugfix for clojure.data.xml, can someone point me to how to run the tests? there's no leiningen project file, so i do not know how the unit tests are normally run |
| 09:02 | s-h | jweiss: they are using Maven. Run "mvn test" to execute all tests |
| 09:03 | jweiss | s-h, huh, i looked in the pom file and didn't see anything clojure specific there, but i'll give it a shot |
| 09:04 | s-h | jweiss: yeah, i think they put all that clojure stuff in their parent POM |
| 09:07 | stuartsierra | jweiss: Yes, `mvn test` to run the tests. `mvn install` to install a -SNAPSHOT version in your local Maven repo which you can depend on in a Leiningen project. |
| 09:11 | futile | Do you ever just find yourself wandering in here because you're stuck on a totally confusing bug and have no guesses as to what could be wrong? |
| 09:12 | pisketti | Was that a rhetorical question?-) |
| 09:13 | Morgawr | what's the point of compiling clojure (also clojurescript) code when running "lein install" when the .jar just comes with source code (.clj and .cljs)? I feel like I'm wasting a lot of time when I have to compile and repackage everything when all I need is just put my new .clj(s) files into the .jar and then compile them in my actual project that uses the library |
| 09:13 | Morgawr | is there a way to skip compilation when running "lein install"? |
| 09:16 | tomjack | does cljsbuild run on `lein install`? |
| 09:16 | Morgawr | tomjack: yes |
| 09:17 | tomjack | dunno why that is - to make sure you don't `lein install` a project that can't compile? |
| 09:17 | Morgawr | when I do "lein install" it says "Compiling clojurescript..." and then goes on to check if there are errors etc etc and then builds and install the .jar (which doens't use the compiled output either way) |
| 09:17 | tomjack | yeah, does seem a bit funny :) |
| 09:17 | Morgawr | I can understand if I want to make sure my project actually works, but most of the time I find myself adding simple tests (like a single console.log() to test stuff) and I have to wait while it compiles |
| 09:18 | ddellacosta | how can I hide CLJS code from clojure.tools.namespace.repl? |
| 09:19 | ddellacosta | er, by that I mean stuff that is calling cljs.compiler I guess |
| 09:19 | ddellacosta | it's obviously not loading my ClojureScript |
| 09:19 | stuartsierra | ddellacosta: As far as I know, you don't need to hide CLJS files from tools.namespace. It will only search for .clj files. |
| 09:19 | ddellacosta | yeah, sorry, I guess what is going on is that it is picking up my macros |
| 09:20 | futile | pisketti: no |
| 09:20 | ddellacosta | and specifically it is complaining about the cljs.compiler/cljs.core I have required |
| 09:20 | futile | Is there any testing lib for ClojureScript? |
| 09:20 | ddellacosta | futile: I've been using clojurescript.test |
| 09:21 | futile | ddellacosta: thanks :) |
| 09:21 | ddellacosta | futile: np. There is also something else by the Prismatic folks |
| 09:22 | tomjack | Morgawr: I'd maybe try adding the cljs project as a checkouts dep so that you don't have to `lein install` when you change it |
| 09:22 | tomjack | dunno how/if that will work out with cljsbuild though |
| 09:23 | ddellacosta | stuartsierra: I think the real issue may be that there are libs (cljs.compiler for example) that are present during CLJS build time, but they make tools.namespace unhappy. I suspect it's not picking up my src paths in my project file? Not sure how I should be doing that to load things properly. |
| 09:24 | ddellacosta | futile: this is what I was thinking of, by the Prismatic folks: https://github.com/Prismatic/cljs-test |
| 09:24 | ddellacosta | futile: clojurescript.test is here: https://github.com/cemerick/clojurescript.test |
| 09:24 | futile | ddellacosta: ahh, cool. thanks again |
| 09:24 | stuartsierra | ddellacosta: You can control what directories clojure.tools.namespace.repl/refresh is using with `clojure.tools.namespace.repl/set-refresh-dirs` |
| 09:25 | ddellacosta | stuartsierra: got it, that's probably what I was missing. Will give it a shot, thanks. And thanks for that great write-up a few weeks back, that's why I'm working with it now. :-) |
| 09:25 | stuartsierra | By default it just scans the java.class.path System property. |
| 09:26 | stuartsierra | ddellacosta: You're welcome! Hope it's useful to you. |
| 09:26 | ddellacosta | stuartsierra: even without getting it fully working properly, it's helped me test Ring handlers…so yes, it's super useful. |
| 09:26 | stuartsierra | Great. |
| 09:31 | loz | is it real to write real-world web sites on clojure? |
| 09:31 | ddellacosta | loz: If you are asking if it is viable, I have done it a number of times. So, yes. |
| 09:32 | loz | can i see a link pls? |
| 09:32 | dnolen_ | core.match primitive array specialization via type hints http://gist.github.com/swannodette/5822664 |
| 09:33 | ddellacosta | loz: I'll do you one better, check out this (still ongoing) thread: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/clojure/a4Dp8gdHev8 |
| 09:35 | loz | okey, thanks |
| 09:35 | ddellacosta | I'm not sure if my boss(es) are cool with me talking about our tech, so I'm over-cautious and won't say…but I'm proud and exceed to be using Clojure in production, writing it full-time. |
| 09:35 | ddellacosta | exceed -> excited. Broken spellcheck |
| 09:37 | loz | gj :) |
| 09:38 | cemerick | dnolen_: you're like 1 step away from erlang-style binary destructuring |
| 09:38 | loz | you mean pattern matching? |
| 09:38 | dnolen_ | cemerick: there's already experimental support for that, been there for 2 years |
| 09:38 | dnolen_ | cemerick: it's crazy fast |
| 09:39 | dnolen_ | cemerick: the vector matching stuff was designed early on to specialize on anything that can be matched sequentially from vectors to binary data |
| 09:43 | cemerick | dnolen_: right, I guess I was talking more about notation than anything else. |
| 09:44 | dnolen_ | cemerick: oh, yeah |
| 09:46 | dnolen_ | fun project for someone - `defm` which supports everything `defn` does via destructuring but instead uses pattern matching |
| 09:46 | cemerick | dnolen_: so, if the incoming value is hinted as ^bytes, pattern rows could treat e.g. namespaced keywords differently. [[:name:4 :len:4 :type:8]], etc |
| 09:48 | dnolen_ | cemerick: something like that yes though would be nice for that generalize to everything else |
| 09:48 | tomjack | how would you use that then? |
| 09:49 | dnolen_ | [[(name 4) (len 4) (type 8)]] so it could work on vectors as well - not sure it would make much sense for arrays |
| 09:50 | tomjack | can a row introduce bindings? |
| 09:50 | dnolen_ | tomjack: for a long time now |
| 09:50 | dnolen_ | 2 years |
| 09:50 | dnolen_ | you can both have named wildcards |
| 09:50 | cemerick | tomjack: that's just a dumb transliteration of erlang binary destructuring |
| 09:50 | tomjack | I see, nice |
| 09:50 | dnolen_ | or wrap a pattern in :as to give it a name |
| 09:50 | cemerick | matching, whatever |
| 09:51 | cemerick | dnolen_: byte arrays or ByteBuffers ~ network messages |
| 09:52 | dnolen_ | once we get function application core.match + instaparse should be pretty sweet for rapidly building languages |
| 10:04 | gdev | finally got a chance to watch "The Language of the System" talk....mind blown |
| 10:07 | loz | ddellacosta: do you use foundation? |
| 10:08 | ddellacosta | loz: you mean this? http://foundation.zurb.com/ |
| 10:08 | loz | yep |
| 10:08 | ddellacosta | nope. been wanting to try it out, just haven't had the occasion yet. |
| 10:09 | mannymanny | hi all, I'm looking for a way to define a sort of build depedencies hierarchy using lein (e.g. when I run "lein test" the "lein something" get ran before) |
| 10:17 | hyPiRion | mannymanny: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/sample.project.clj#L91-L94 ? |
| 10:18 | hyPiRion | That would not create a build dependency hierarchy, but at least you can define what task to run before other tasks |
| 10:19 | hyPiRion | If I wanted some make-like functionality, I think I would use https://github.com/hyPiRion/lein-shell and make in prep-tasks |
| 10:20 | gdev | hyPiRion, doesn't leiningen have something for showing a deps? |
| 10:20 | gdev | s/a/project |
| 10:21 | hyPiRion | gdev: yeah, `lein deps :tree` |
| 10:21 | gdev | mannymanny, use lein deps :tree |
| 10:22 | hyPiRion | gdev: well, that can't do what he asks for though. He wants a way to e.g. do `lein something` before running `lein test` |
| 10:22 | gdev | mannymanny, scratch that, that won't work apparently |
| 10:23 | gdev | puredanger, ohhai Alex |
| 10:23 | puredanger | gdev: hi! |
| 10:24 | hyPiRion | mannymanny: actually, the simplest would probably to define aliases. So, for example in your case, you could add in `:aliases {"test" ["do" "something," "test"]}`. Then running `lein test` would be the same as running `lein do something, test` |
| 10:24 | hyPiRion | (And no, it won't lead to an infinite recursion, aliases are only applied once) |
| 10:25 | mannymanny | hyPiRion: thank you all guys, I'm going to try the aliases one |
| 10:27 | hyPiRion | np |
| 10:31 | edbond | how to display full collection? repl cuts it at say "(1 2 3 4 ...)" |
| 10:31 | gdev | change your print-length |
| 10:31 | gdev | (set! *print-length* nil) |
| 10:32 | edbond | gdev, thx |
| 10:33 | gdev | yes! achievement unlocked, I successfully answered a question about clojure on irc |
| 10:38 | mikerod | ,(inc gdev) |
| 10:38 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: gdev in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 10:38 | mikerod | It wasn't meant to be |
| 10:39 | justin_smith | (inc gdev) |
| 10:39 | lazybot | ⇒ 1 |
| 10:39 | justin_smith | he earned it |
| 10:39 | mikerod | :) |
| 10:39 | gdev | nice =D |
| 10:40 | justin_smith | (inc inc) |
| 10:40 | lazybot | ⇒ 1 |
| 10:40 | mikerod | Hmm |
| 10:40 | justin_smith | #clojure, where you can upvote the upvote system |
| 10:40 | mikerod | That seems fitting for clojure |
| 10:41 | justin_smith | it's recursion all the way down |
| 10:41 | justin_smith | someone should make a self-hosting LOGO, just so they can say "it's turtles all the way down" |
| 10:44 | clgv | (inc 42) |
| 10:44 | lazybot | ⇒ 1 |
| 10:44 | clgv | ;) |
| 10:44 | justin_smith | (inc 42) |
| 10:44 | lazybot | ⇒ 2 |
| 10:44 | justin_smith | eventually the output will be correct |
| 10:45 | tomjack | then some asshole will do it one more time |
| 10:45 | tomjack | oh, can you dec? |
| 10:45 | justin_smith | lol |
| 10:45 | clgv | yes |
| 10:45 | justin_smith | (dec 42) |
| 10:45 | lazybot | You want me to leave karma the same? Fine, I will. |
| 10:45 | clgv | oh maybe not anymore |
| 10:45 | clgv | (dec lazybot) |
| 10:45 | lazybot | ⇒ 18 |
| 10:46 | clgv | (dec lazybot) |
| 10:46 | lazybot | ⇒ 17 |
| 10:46 | clgv | ^^ |
| 10:46 | clgv | (dec 10) |
| 10:46 | lazybot | ⇒ -1 |
| 10:46 | clgv | (dec 42) |
| 10:46 | lazybot | You want me to leave karma the same? Fine, I will. |
| 10:46 | mikerod | ##(print "I thought this was how to lazybot") |
| 10:46 | lazybot | ⇒ I thought this was how to lazybotnil |
| 10:48 | clgv | ,(print "Hello lazybot! ##(print \"Good day, clojurebot!\")") |
| 10:48 | clojurebot | Hello lazybot! ##(print "Good day, clojurebot!") |
| 10:48 | clgv | damn, that got disabled... ;) |
| 10:48 | mikerod | Hah, that would be pretty interesting |
| 10:48 | clgv | worked a while back ^^ |
| 10:49 | clgv | ,(print "&(print \"Good day, clojurebot!\")") |
| 10:49 | clojurebot | &(print "Good day, clojurebot!") |
| 10:50 | tomjack | "delimited continuations via codensity" https://gist.github.com/ekmett/1015030 hmm |
| 10:51 | clgv | ,(print "$google clojure") |
| 10:51 | clojurebot | $google clojure |
| 10:54 | hyPiRion | clojurebot: lazybot ignores clojurebot |
| 10:54 | clojurebot | clojurebot is pretty cool |
| 10:54 | hyPiRion | clgv i meant |
| 10:55 | clgv | hehe |
| 10:55 | clgv | it was not always like that^^ |
| 10:56 | clgv | or was it the other way round? .... |
| 10:56 | hyPiRion | it was not always like that |
| 10:56 | clgv | &(println ",(print \"Hello, lazybot\")") |
| 10:56 | lazybot | ⇒ ,(print "Hello, lazybot") nil |
| 10:56 | hyPiRion | I am the reason why lazybot now ignores clojurebot :( |
| 10:56 | clgv | what did you do with it? |
| 10:57 | hyPiRion | clgv: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2012-12-17.html#22:30 |
| 10:57 | hyPiRion | I managed to create a multi-bot quine which would pong stuff between the bots every 16 hours |
| 10:57 | clgv | muhahaha |
| 11:01 | hyPiRion | It would actually be easier to just pong it immediately, but you know |
| 11:01 | hyPiRion | I would've been hellbanned from this channel if I did :s |
| 11:01 | justin_smith | when I worked on a mud, banning was for simple forgivable stuff |
| 11:02 | justin_smith | if someone really fucked up, they got a special flag on all their characters |
| 11:02 | justin_smith | that accelerated hunger, thirst, and derangement of mental state |
| 11:02 | justin_smith | it would accumulate over months |
| 11:02 | justin_smith | until every action they took would randomly fail, or target a random entity (possibly themselves) regardless of intended target |
| 11:03 | clgv | "mud"? |
| 11:03 | justin_smith | this was all secret, mentioning the existence of this flag to mortals was banned |
| 11:03 | justin_smith | multi-user-dungeon |
| 11:03 | vijaykiran | multi user dungeons |
| 11:03 | vijaykiran | ah :) |
| 11:03 | justin_smith | imaging WoW with the user interface of zork |
| 11:03 | justin_smith | *imagine |
| 11:04 | justin_smith | the first large scale multi player online games |
| 11:04 | justin_smith | one advantage over graphic games: very easy for users to script in any language that takes a text stream as input, and emits one as output |
| 11:04 | justin_smith | which is just about any usable programming language |
| 11:06 | djanatyn | I found my old clojure game of life implementation :))) |
| 11:06 | djanatyn | https://github.com/djanatyn/game-of-life/blob/master/src/game_of_life/core.clj |
| 11:07 | justin_smith | looks like a good cantidate for clojurescript / canvas |
| 11:14 | bobbrahms1 | anyone using core.typed? I'm trying this getting started thing at http://www.clojure.net/2013/03/14/Typed-Clojure/, and the first time I call check-ns I get a: |
| 11:14 | bobbrahms1 | clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException: java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: Unknown Collection type, compiling:(clojure/core/typed/path_rep.clj:12) |
| 11:16 | justin_smith | are you using the same versions of things they are with the demo? |
| 11:16 | justin_smith | do you have other deps that may have overriden the deps there? |
| 11:17 | bobbrahms1 | re: same versions, I can't tell. Probably not since that thing was written 3 months ago and I'm using the latest. |
| 11:18 | justin_smith | is clojure.core.typed something in 1.5 or is a separate library? |
| 11:18 | bobbrahms1 | I suppose it's possible that I have overridden deps |
| 11:18 | bobbrahms1 | separate library |
| 11:19 | justin_smith | do you have other deps in the same project? (other than clojure) |
| 11:20 | bobbrahms1 | well this is a big maven project with lots of deps. I'm just firing up a new repl and trying the typed stuff |
| 11:21 | bobbrahms1 | new repl, require clojure.core.typed, load a file with nothing but a simple namespace, call check-ns, get an exception |
| 11:22 | bobbrahms1 | I could simplify it and see if the problem persists. I just wondered if this sounded familiar |
| 11:22 | justin_smith | I would try in a bare bones project then if that works (which I would guess it would) compare the versions of things that show up under lein deps :tree |
| 11:23 | justin_smith | then you probably need some :exclusions in your project.clj - I am guessing |
| 11:23 | bobbrahms1 | this is not a lein project. |
| 11:23 | justin_smith | oh, never mind then, someone else will need to help you with that |
| 11:23 | bobbrahms1 | would there be a maven equivalent? |
| 11:23 | bobbrahms1 | OK |
| 11:24 | justin_smith | mvn has a deps command |
| 11:24 | justin_smith | mvn deps:tree or some such |
| 11:24 | bobbrahms1 | I mean I could certainly set up a barebones thing anyhow |
| 11:24 | bobbrahms1 | thanks |
| 11:25 | djanatyn | justin_smith: I'd love to do that! how do I get started? |
| 11:26 | djanatyn | I found my old ant simulation thingy too :) https://gist.github.com/djanatyn/5823689 |
| 11:26 | justin_smith | https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/Quick-Start |
| 11:26 | djanatyn | I forgot about all this clojure code I wrote in my java class ;) |
| 11:27 | justin_smith | I have had a bunch of fun visualizing clojure stuff in html5 canvas (with the help of the aleph lib for websockets), my next step is to try to use clojurescript instead of js |
| 11:29 | djanatyn | justin_smith: do you know of any place to learn about canvas? I've never used it before ^_^; |
| 11:29 | djanatyn | or is there some sort of clojurescript wrapper library? |
| 11:30 | justin_smith | http://yogthos.net/blog/32-ClojureScript+Adventures was going to be my starting point |
| 11:30 | justin_smith | I was just reading javascript docs and making a canvas, putting objects in it |
| 11:30 | justin_smith | (before moving over to clojurescript, which will be much more sane for programming in than vanilla js) |
| 11:31 | justin_smith | anyway, things like life or ants really beg to be visualized on a 2d plane |
| 11:31 | arrdem | hyPiRion: my hat is off sir |
| 11:34 | djanatyn | wow, this should be pretty easy, as I already have my logic seperated from my UI |
| 11:34 | djanatyn | I think my code will actually work untouched |
| 11:35 | justin_smith | djanatyn: awesome |
| 11:35 | justin_smith | I was having some good luck with sending json arrays with objects to draw from clojure |
| 11:36 | justin_smith | and then a foreach / conditional to draw each thing that came in (rect / bitmap / line / ...) |
| 11:36 | justin_smith | the foreach / conditional being on the javascript end that is |
| 11:41 | ciphergoth | "or" is a macro, so I can't do (update-in thing [:this :that] or "default-value") |
| 11:41 | ciphergoth | what's the right thing to do there? |
| 11:42 | justin_smith | #(or %1 %2) |
| 11:42 | justin_smith | (is one solution) |
| 11:42 | ciphergoth | so (update-in thing [:this :that] #(or %1 "default")) |
| 11:43 | hyPiRion | justin_smith: can %1 be false? |
| 11:43 | hyPiRion | or just nil? |
| 11:43 | ciphergoth | %1 will be a string or absent altogether |
| 11:43 | justin_smith | well that is just replicating the behvior of or |
| 11:43 | justin_smith | ,(update-in {:a 0} [:b :c] #(or %1 %2) 2) |
| 11:43 | clojurebot | {:b {:c 2}, :a 0} |
| 11:44 | dnolen_ | huh |
| 11:44 | justin_smith | ,(update-in {:a 0 {:b {:c 0}}} [:b :c] #(or %1 %2) 2) |
| 11:44 | clojurebot | #<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Map literal must contain an even number of forms> |
| 11:44 | dnolen_ | with support for binary data I guess you could easily do a binary lambda calculus interpreter in core.match |
| 11:44 | justin_smith | oops |
| 11:44 | justin_smith | ,(update-in {:a 0 :b {:c 0}} [:b :c] #(or %1 %2) 2) |
| 11:44 | clojurebot | {:a 0, :b {:c 0}} |
| 11:45 | tomjack | &(map #(update-in % [:this :that] (fnil identity "default")) [{} {:this {:that "foo"}}]) |
| 11:45 | lazybot | ⇒ ({:this {:that "default"}} {:this {:that "foo"}}) |
| 11:45 | justin_smith | tomjack: nice |
| 11:45 | hyPiRion | tomjack: yeah, I was thinking about that, but it's not taking any args in |
| 11:45 | hyPiRion | well hm |
| 11:46 | tomjack | half joke |
| 11:46 | hyPiRion | (defn assoc-if-not-in [m kws elem] (update-in m kws (fnil identity elem))) is probably a good one |
| 11:46 | tomjack | (fnil identity "default") is longer and probably harder to understand than #(or % "default") |
| 11:47 | devn | technomancy: you around? I am trying to use Syme with someone in India and they're having trouble connecting. I'm wondering if the region the instance is being hosted is an issue. Have you heard of anything like that happening? |
| 11:47 | tomjack | or even #(if (nil? %) "default" %) |
| 11:49 | Lajjla | justin_smith, I have bought a desk fan |
| 11:51 | callen | devn: networking with a developing nation that has many undeveloped regions is going to possibly mess up your networked application? |
| 11:53 | glosoli | Hey folks, anyone can recommend some nice resource online to get started with clojure for someone who is complete unfamiliar with LISP and such ? |
| 11:53 | devn | callen: heh |
| 11:53 | devn | callen: he's in a nice area :) |
| 11:53 | callen | devn: so 56k modem? |
| 11:53 | devn | aww come on |
| 11:53 | devn | have you been to india? |
| 11:53 | callen | no no, this is India, 2.5g GSM USB dongle? |
| 11:54 | callen | no, but I've had a lot of conference calls with people in India |
| 11:54 | callen | memories of paaaaaiiiiiin |
| 11:54 | callen | glosoli: 4clojure and buy a book |
| 11:54 | callen | glosoli: I recommend cemerick's book, "Clojure Programming". It's designed for non-LISPers. Just pay no mind when he grumbles about CLR and the JVM. |
| 11:54 | clgv | glosoli: yeah get a book, read it and play with 4clojure |
| 11:55 | callen | clgv: I would've said, "you could just say, 'what callen said'", but really - that's static and constantly the case anyway. |
| 11:56 | glosoli | callen: thanks! :) |
| 11:56 | glosoli | clgv: you too thanks |
| 11:56 | callen | clgv: ever been to ##C? |
| 11:56 | clgv | callen: a "C" IRC channel? |
| 11:57 | callen | yes, although what I'm speaking of is fairly notorious and common to FreeNode and EFNet |
| 11:57 | callen | I can tell #clojure attracts a better quality of person than ##C, because whenever I would tell the carpetbaggers to get a book, they'd tell me to get stuffed and tell them the answer to their homework question. |
| 11:57 | clgv | haha |
| 11:57 | callen | and they would invariably be in desperate need of a book. |
| 11:58 | clgv | well, if you really want to learn the language a book is the best choice to get you started fast. |
| 11:58 | glosoli | callen: cemerick = Chas Emerick ? |
| 11:58 | callen | glosoli: da comrade. |
| 11:58 | glosoli | ok |
| 11:58 | callen | clgv: the book makes certain any critical gaps are filled, which is especially important so that you don't make other programmers angry. |
| 11:58 | clgv | I had a student that try to avoid reading the suggested book on purpose |
| 11:59 | clgv | you could see it in his code that he never understood the complete picture... :/ |
| 11:59 | callen | clgv: hopefully you did like a proper zen master and fwacked them with a stick over the head. |
| 11:59 | callen | that's my approach anyway. I don't have many students anymore. |
| 11:59 | callen | too many brain-fevers and dropouts. |
| 11:59 | glosoli | clgv: I love books |
| 11:59 | callen | I love people that love books. |
| 12:00 | glosoli | heh, have a nice coffee |
| 12:01 | callen | I drink buckets of it. It doesn't have to be especially good, just hot and ready to go. |
| 12:05 | glosoli | callen: Same here, hmm as oddly as it sounds, it doesn't seem to affect by health in any bad way, can't drink like seven coffee per day or more |
| 12:06 | callen | glosoli: supposedly up to six coffees a day is fine. |
| 12:07 | glosoli | callen: hmm, I always thought it's something like two tops |
| 12:07 | callen | glosoli: naw. |
| 12:07 | callen | glosoli: no negatives of any verified sort seep in until 6 per diem |
| 12:08 | callen | verified being the key word here, most of the studies showing weak negative effects for 1-5 coffees haven't been reproducible science, 6+ have been (speaking from memory) |
| 12:08 | callen | generally speaking, drinking coffee is correlated (for whatever that is worth) with a longer lifespan. |
| 12:09 | TimMc | This is all in the absence of complicating factors such as acid reflux. |
| 12:09 | callen | of course. personal circumstances may vary. |
| 12:09 | glosoli | callen: Pardon me for my english, but just to be sure correlated means connected in the sense of more coffee longer life span ? |
| 12:09 | callen | I drink tea in addition to coffee to control for acid and stomach upset. |
| 12:10 | hyPiRion | glosoli: It means people who drink more coffee has, on average, a longer life span |
| 12:10 | callen | glosoli: correlated has a very specific and (to the public anyway) slippery scientific meaning. Just remember that it's a statistical association, not a causal relationship. |
| 12:10 | hyPiRion | that doesn't mean coffee gives a longer lifespan |
| 12:10 | TimMc | or that naturally long-lived people prefer to drink a lot of coffee. |
| 12:11 | callen | which would be an interesting thing to try to prove given that that sort of thing is usually due to cultural factors and it'd be hard to pin coffee down to a single cohort. |
| 12:11 | technomancy | could also mean coffee companies secretly are killing off non-coffee-drinkers |
| 12:11 | technomancy | just throwing that out there |
| 12:11 | callen | my best guess is that coffee drinking sifts out lower and lower middle class people and selects for middle / middle upper class officeworkers. |
| 12:11 | callen | so, money, career, access to healthcare, class. |
| 12:12 | callen | most poor people I've known didn't drink coffee. |
| 12:12 | glosoli | callen: hmm out here most poor people tend to drink coffee |
| 12:12 | callen | technomancy: drinking some canned stuff I got from Nob Hill. Dark columbian stuff. |
| 12:12 | hyPiRion | callen: are you implying that people without access to clean water or food doesn't drink coffee? |
| 12:12 | callen | hyPiRion: poor people in the US have access to clean water and food. |
| 12:13 | callen | hyPiRion: they tend to drink soda and the like, rather than coffee. |
| 12:13 | hyPiRion | callen: yeah, it was a joke :-) |
| 12:13 | callen | glosoli: ^^ |
| 12:13 | stain_ | I think British construction workers etc. have little access to good quality coffee, therefore they go for tea rather than nescafe |
| 12:13 | stain_ | which I fully support |
| 12:13 | callen | I drink a lot of tea too, mostly green and oolong. |
| 12:13 | callen | I really don't care for cheap tea though. |
| 12:13 | callen | stain_: nescafe? that's just grotesque. |
| 12:13 | glosoli | nescafe is known as fertilizers out here |
| 12:14 | glosoli | that's how people call them |
| 12:14 | callen | my father simply took a thermos with him to work everyday so that he'd have his coffee. |
| 12:14 | callen | biiiiig thermos |
| 12:15 | justin_smith | my father is a machine that turns coffee into frames for houses, I am a machine that turns coffee into code |
| 12:16 | stain_ | I think I'm a machine that turns coffee into emails :( |
| 12:16 | TimMc | Alfréd Rényi said, "a mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems" |
| 12:16 | hyPiRion | justin_smith: well, apparently your machinery is able to talk on IRC too |
| 12:16 | justin_smith | don't need coffee for that |
| 12:16 | justin_smith | code, on the other hand |
| 12:17 | glosoli | callen: thanks for the recommendation again, just bought that book, will go on reading |
| 12:17 | dnolen_ | WHOA |
| 12:18 | callen | glosoli: sweet. Please enjoy. |
| 12:18 | callen | dnolen_: yeah, he looks like a younger you - right? |
| 12:18 | dnolen_ | Luc Maranget's lazy pattern matching algorithm seems to find ROBDDs in the simple cases ????? |
| 12:19 | cemerick | glosoli: yeah, that's me |
| 12:19 | mannymanny | update on "how to define task dependencies in lein in order to run "lein something" before "lein test" --> I've opted for the :prep-tasks combined with the lein-shell plugin --> :prep-tasks [["shell" "./my-script.sh"]] |
| 12:19 | callen | cemerick: I need to be getting referrals for constantly bumping your book in here. |
| 12:19 | hyPiRion | mannymanny: And that is working fine? |
| 12:19 | justin_smith | I ordered it, it is awesome, now gimme my cash too |
| 12:20 | justin_smith | (just kidding about the cash part, the rest is true) |
| 12:20 | mannymanny | actually is running the shell script before _any_ task |
| 12:20 | callen | I own a copy as well from AMZN. |
| 12:20 | ciphergoth | TimMc: *googles* heh, always heard that attributed to Paul Erdős, but Wikiquote agrees with you! |
| 12:20 | TimMc | I was surprised as well. |
| 12:20 | mannymanny | but given that the script is taking less than a second it's ok |
| 12:20 | ciphergoth | And of course a comathematician is a machine for turning cotheorems into ffee. |
| 12:21 | justin_smith | ciphergoth: Erdös would likely have said meth instead of coffee |
| 12:21 | justin_smith | based on his actual practice |
| 12:21 | ciphergoth | Amphetamine rather than methamphetamine AIUI# |
| 12:21 | justin_smith | opps, yeah |
| 12:21 | ystael | ciphergoth: you owe me a new keyboard |
| 12:21 | hyPiRion | mannymanny: yeah. If you want to only do it before tests only, you can do `:aliases {"test" ["do" "shell" "./my-script.sh," "test"]}` |
| 12:21 | dnolen_ | I just put in a Binary Decision Diagram from a tutorial into core.match and it produced the ROBDD illustrated |
| 12:22 | ciphergoth | ystael: :) |
| 12:22 | callen | ciphergoth: *nice* |
| 12:22 | dnolen_ | no redundant tests and the correct variable testing order |
| 12:23 | TimMc | ciphergoth: That's fantastic. Gonna quote you on that. |
| 12:24 | TimMc | Who would you like it to be misattributed to? |
| 12:24 | justin_smith | Abraham Einstein |
| 12:25 | ciphergoth | Qiaochu Yuan? http://mathoverflow.net/questions/1083/do-good-math-jokes-exist |
| 12:25 | arkh | why does this block? (.start (Thread. (loop [] (send-off myagent myfunc) (Thread/sleep 5000) (recur)))) |
| 12:25 | arkh | but this doesn't: (.start (Thread. (loop [] (prn "hi") (Thread/sleep 5000) (recur)))) |
| 12:25 | TimMc | ciphergoth: Ah, OK. :-) |
| 12:26 | ciphergoth | this is from 1996, could be the invention http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?forumID=13&threadID=20573&messageID=48418 |
| 12:26 | justin_smith | mbinitorics, mputer science, lol |
| 12:29 | seancorfield | lack of mprehension? :) |
| 12:32 | cemerick | callen: feel free to pass around your own amazon url :-) |
| 12:32 | callen | cemerick: I'm a bloody fool, I already have an affiliate account. Woe is me! |
| 12:35 | mannymanny | hyPiRion: actually I've found out that I prefer to have the script to be run always, it's a javascript minifation that I prefer to have always in place (not only during test....), I've tried the alias thing but it isn't working: run the script but doesn't run the tests |
| 12:36 | hyPiRion | mannymanny: ah, okay. |
| 12:41 | devn | technomancy: is there a way to set a different region for the AWS instance with Syme? |
| 12:43 | technomancy | devn: I think AMIs are tied to a given region, so if you specify a custom one in another region it should just work? |
| 12:43 | technomancy | haven't tried it myself; let me know if it works =) |
| 12:44 | futile | foo |
| 12:52 | kmicu | Quijure anyone? http://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/quipper/ |
| 12:52 | akells` | I have a string that looks like this: "[:wood \"birch\"]- [:tree \"pine\"]" and I want to remove the [ \ and ] characters. Is there any built in way to replace multiple characters at once? Right now I could put something together using this (clojure.string/replace "[:wood \"birch"]&[:tree \"pine"\]" #"\[" "") but I'd have to repeat myself a few times |
| 12:54 | LE_CESSMASTEUR | akells`, first, kneel before me. |
| 12:54 | LE_CESSMASTEUR | And I may yet let you live, mortal. |
| 12:56 | edlothiol | akells`: you can use a pattern in replace, e.g. #"\[|\]|\\" |
| 12:57 | LE_CESSMASTEUR | edlothiol, do not encourage this behaviour in front of the court. |
| 12:58 | akells` | thanks edlothiol, this will work perfectly. much appreciated |
| 13:03 | cemerick | Just fixed two "long"-standing bugs due to extending protocols to e.g. js/Number. dnolen_, is there a writeup anywhere about js/Number vs. number and similar, motivations/objectives/etc? |
| 13:04 | dnolen_ | cemerick: I need more context, we don't do anything with js/Number incore |
| 13:04 | dnolen_ | in core |
| 13:05 | tomjack | &(macroexpand-1 '(.getName Math)) |
| 13:05 | lazybot | ⇒ (. (clojure.core/identity Math) getName) |
| 13:06 | cemerick | dnolen_: yeah, I know, *I* did in one of my projects. I suspect I've been using e.g. boolean and js/Boolean interchangeably for a while, which I can see now is strictly wrong w.r.t. protocols. Was just wondering if there was anything I could read on the implementation differences and whys and wherefores, aside from the impl. |
| 13:06 | dnolen_ | cemerick: the principle is simple, don't extend JavaScript language natives |
| 13:06 | dnolen_ | cemerick: anything listed as a JS type in the EcmaScript 262 specification should not be touched |
| 13:07 | cemerick | This is where my being an idiot w.r.t. js is killing me. |
| 13:07 | cemerick | dnolen_: isn't that what prototypes are for, at least ostensibly? |
| 13:07 | dnolen_ | cemerick: extending to CLJS types is generally OK as that's all under the control of Closure |
| 13:07 | dnolen_ | cemerick: at the risk of breaking everything, sure |
| 13:08 | dnolen_ | cemerick: even extending to browser natives must weighed carefully |
| 13:08 | cemerick | dnolen_: i.e. if other libs happen to make changes as well, the whole unscoped monkeypatching problem? |
| 13:08 | dnolen_ | which is why I'm looking forward to specify |
| 13:08 | dnolen_ | cemerick: yes |
| 13:09 | dnolen_ | specify would allow us to scope changes to an instance |
| 13:09 | dnolen_ | giving us the flexibility we want and none of the craziness |
| 13:09 | dnolen_ | impossible in Clojure, but certainly doable for JS |
| 13:11 | cemerick | I thought that was why prototype extensions are munged up the wazoo. e.g. who's going to touch Number.prototype.cemerick$sedan$impl$Sedan$ ? |
| 13:11 | dnolen_ | cemerick: that's not what happens after advanced compilation |
| 13:11 | dnolen_ | Number.prototype.cB |
| 13:11 | dnolen_ | and stuff like that |
| 13:12 | tomjack | but extending to 'number' is OK, right? |
| 13:12 | cemerick | yeah, I guess. This is a very conservative approach. |
| 13:12 | dnolen_ | tomjack: yes |
| 13:12 | cemerick | right, that's the whole base-types thing in core.clj |
| 13:13 | cemerick | dnolen_: please distinguish between "javascript natives" and "browser natives"; the former is stuff in ecma, the latter is...DOM bits? |
| 13:14 | dnolen_ | ROBDD fun http://gist.github.com/swannodette/5824533 |
| 13:14 | dnolen_ | cemerick: yep |
| 13:14 | cemerick | ok |
| 13:14 | tomjack | :( |
| 13:15 | dnolen_ | cemerick: I'm not against adding warning for the base-types to the compiler |
| 13:15 | dnolen_ | I see this mistake all the the type |
| 13:15 | cemerick | ah, ok |
| 13:15 | tomjack | I don't see how specify would be of help here |
| 13:15 | dnolen_ | js/Object makes me want to cry |
| 13:15 | cemerick | I'll add an issue |
| 13:15 | dnolen_ | tomjack: instance *local* |
| 13:16 | dnolen_ | no program wide |
| 13:17 | tomjack | I see how it could prevent the craziness, I don't understand how it's useful for someone who was thinking "I want to extend my protocol to Element" or whatever |
| 13:17 | dnolen_ | tomjack: clone the element and extend that just like anything else |
| 13:18 | cemerick | tomjack: I have protocols extended to various DOM classes. Perhaps that's wrong, but it works. |
| 13:18 | tomjack | but suffers the craziness? |
| 13:18 | dnolen_ | cemerick: not wrong, just less modular than it could be |
| 13:19 | tomjack | so (defn my-protocol-fn-wrapper [x] (my-protocol-fn (if (instance? js/Element x) (specify ...) x))) ? |
| 13:20 | dnolen_ | tomjack: it just depends, but the point is you get pick the level of modularity you need |
| 13:20 | dnolen_ | even with specify, you need to touch the prototype to at least define the semantics of cloning |
| 13:20 | dnolen_ | but there's also specify! if you don't care about cloning |
| 13:21 | cemerick | dnolen_: finally, what's 'default for? Isn't '_' just another name in javascript? |
| 13:21 | cemerick | identifier, rather |
| 13:21 | dnolen_ | cemerick: it's just the default |
| 13:22 | dnolen_ | a catch all |
| 13:23 | cemerick | dnolen_: i.e. union of nil and object? |
| 13:23 | dnolen_ | dnolen_: different from nil or object |
| 13:24 | dnolen_ | the dispatch is based on the value of goog.typeOf |
| 13:24 | dnolen_ | which returns "null", "function", "object", "boolean", "number", "array" |
| 13:24 | dnolen_ | if we find no method in the table for those, we check "_" |
| 13:25 | cemerick | okay |
| 13:25 | cemerick | dnolen_: Thanks very much for the brain-dump. I feel thoroughly clarified now. :-) |
| 13:25 | dnolen_ | cemerick: np |
| 13:36 | futile | [joke about decimal-time] |
| 13:44 | Raynos | I found this thread ( http://grokbase.com/t/gg/clojure/135a8m6exn/not-using-dependency-injection-how-do-i-share-services-around ) about DI very interesting, does anyone have other good recommended reading material on the subject ? |
| 13:48 | bbloom | technomancy: i'm like 99% sure i have the right passphrase, but of course it doesnt work :-P |
| 13:48 | tomjack | the "punchline" sounds like what I thought when I read about angular's "solution" for demeter violations |
| 13:50 | stuartsierra | Raynos: Maybe my recent blog post: http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/2013/06/04/clojure-workflow-reloaded |
| 13:51 | stuartsierra | There are more examples in the comments on that post. |
| 13:52 | hbstunt | lastlog |
| 13:53 | hbstunt | (oops) |
| 14:03 | Okasu | Back to that discussion about pronouncification of `assoc', in which part of america people saying 'a-sh-o-sh-iate'? |
| 14:13 | jweiss | when including clojure lib jars on classpath, does it work like java classes when there are two versions of the same lib on the classpath? (in java land, the first one wins). |
| 14:13 | stuartsierra | jweiss: Probably. Clojure uses Java classloaders to find files. |
| 14:14 | jweiss | i am seeing really weird behavior. i patched clojure.data.xml and uploaded to clojars under my own group name. but another lib i use depends on an older version of clojure.data.xml |
| 14:14 | jweiss | i'm wondering if uploading to clojars under my own group name was a bad idea |
| 14:14 | jweiss | since now lein considers them two different libs. |
| 14:15 | stuartsierra | jweiss: You can make that work if you add an :exclusion for the older version. |
| 14:15 | cemerick | jweiss: you can add a project-wide exclusion |
| 14:15 | stuartsierra | Or :exclude, I forget the syntax. |
| 14:15 | jweiss | would that work though? one is org.clojure/data.xml and the other is weissjeffm/data.xml |
| 14:16 | jweiss | i guess it would since the namespaces are the same. |
| 14:16 | stuartsierra | Yes, as long as you keep the older JAR off the classpath, and the namespaces are the same, it should work. |
| 14:16 | jweiss | ok thanks |
| 14:17 | stuartsierra | I don't think Leiningen makes any promises about the *order* in which things appear on the classpath, so you have to exclude what you don't want. |
| 14:17 | hyPiRion | yeah, true |
| 14:18 | stuartsierra | I'd hesitate to rely on order anyway, even if it were promised. |
| 14:18 | technomancy | you don't get order guarantees within :dependencies, but on-disk directories should always have priority over jars. |
| 14:18 | stuartsierra | OK, that makes sense. |
| 14:19 | jweiss | i really hope this is what caused the weird behavior because after this i got nothin :) |
| 14:23 | bbloom | technomancy: ok, i seriously can't get into my gpg key…. what do i do? *sigh* |
| 14:24 | technomancy | bbloom: if you lost the passphrase you should publish your revocation cert and make a new key pair |
| 14:25 | bbloom | technomancy: i'm just 100% convinced that i know my passphrase, but it apparently doesn't work, so maybe i fucked up making the key |
| 14:25 | bbloom | anyway, where do i publish that revocation? to clojars somehow? |
| 14:25 | hyPiRion | bbloom: ohumm, what are you using? |
| 14:25 | technomancy | bbloom: no, to a key server like MIT's |
| 14:25 | bbloom | technomancy: oh nevermind, i saw that in the help |
| 14:26 | hyPiRion | bbloom: you've tried with raw GPG, not from lein, right? |
| 14:26 | hyPiRion | (I'm fairly certain the stdin/out stuff is fixed, but can't be too sure) |
| 14:26 | bbloom | hyPiRion: yeah i'm doing this: echo '1234' | gpg --no-use-agent -o /dev/null --local-user FC97C2D7 -as - && echo 'got it!' |
| 14:26 | hyPiRion | okay |
| 14:27 | bbloom | hyPiRion: what was the issue? |
| 14:28 | hyPiRion | technomancy/leiningen#957 |
| 14:28 | lazybot | lein run doesn't close stdin of the clojure process. -- https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/957 is closed |
| 14:29 | amalloy | (inc lazybot) |
| 14:29 | lazybot | ⇒ 18 |
| 14:29 | hyPiRion | plus #1080 and #1173 and friends. It's a mess because we're sending data around, but we can't just pass the fd to a child proc |
| 14:32 | bbloom | technomancy: what if i can't find my revoke key? lol |
| 14:32 | bbloom | technomancy: i suck. |
| 14:36 | owengalenjones | I guess its impossible to have a multi variadic function with a rest argument right? |
| 14:37 | hyPiRion | owengalenjones: not if it's possible to distinguish between the variants |
| 14:37 | owengalenjones | yeah that makes perfect sense after thinking about it |
| 14:38 | hyPiRion | ,((fn f ([a b] (f a b 5)) ([a b & c] (apply + a b c))) 1 2) |
| 14:38 | clojurebot | 8 |
| 14:39 | owengalenjones | thanks hyPiRion |
| 14:39 | hyPiRion | np |
| 14:54 | bbloom | technomancy: ok, i can't revoke my old key, but i made a new one and republished all of my artifacts with that key |
| 14:54 | bbloom | technomancy: and this time i made a revoke key & will back everything up |
| 14:55 | bbloom | technomancy: the docs don't seem to say what things need to be backed up though. looks like gnugpg stores keys in some binary format. is there a good way to gather all the plain text files i need for making a backup? |
| 14:56 | bbloom | https://gist.github.com/chrisroos/1205934 <- is method 2 the way to go here? |
| 14:58 | futile | What's some idiomatic Clojure code that demonstrates just how simple it is compared to the alternative using OOP (and instance variables etc)? |
| 14:58 | Chousuke | futile: that's a pretty vague question |
| 14:58 | futile | yep |
| 14:59 | jweiss | we as a community should have an answer for that somewhere though :) |
| 14:59 | Chousuke | well, I don't know. |
| 14:59 | Chousuke | some things are easier, some things are not |
| 14:59 | jweiss | map is a nice example maybe |
| 14:59 | jweiss | i did a blog post a while back that wasn't too far off this subject |
| 14:59 | Chousuke | but to pick an example, I often wish I had a good sequence toolkit when working with pythong |
| 14:59 | Chousuke | ... -g |
| 15:00 | futile | jweiss: sure, any individual core function is pretty easy. but it'd be nice to see using them together to do something in a simpler way than the OOP way |
| 15:00 | futile | Chousuke: HA |
| 15:00 | jweiss | futile: here's an example i posted a while ago http://jweiss.com/blog/?p=140 |
| 15:01 | hyPiRion | futile: the expression problem is usually a common one |
| 15:01 | hyPiRion | chouser did a video on that I think |
| 15:01 | Chousuke | it's so often that Iwant to write code that goes like filter / extend -> transform -> reduce/transform -> ... |
| 15:01 | Chousuke | and I have to write lots of loops in python |
| 15:01 | Chousuke | and make copies of things so I don't clobber stuff |
| 15:02 | hyPiRion | futile: yeah, here it is http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Clojure-Expression-Problem |
| 15:03 | Chousuke | for example, I'm working on some visualization code that goes through a list of units on a rack, and I wanted to fill up the "blanks" on the list so that it's easy to render |
| 15:03 | Chousuke | but it's pretty tough in python to just insert stuff in the "middle" of a list |
| 15:05 | Chousuke | and after debugging a problem for 15 minutes that resulted from a missing "return" keyword I configured emacs to automatically run pylint :P |
| 15:06 | bbloom | Chousuke: haha. that's bit me before too w/ javascript. after clojure, coffeescript, ruby, and a few other things…. "return" is a code smell to me, it implies an imperitive break from a loop :-P |
| 15:07 | Chousuke | I've almost got my emacs configured just right for python |
| 15:07 | kmicu | too many "python" word, my eyes hurts... |
| 15:07 | clojurebot | bcrypt. http://codahale.com/how-to-safely-store-a-password/ |
| 15:07 | Chousuke | the only thing missing is completion in ipython shell |
| 15:07 | bbloom | lol thanks for the reminder, clojurebot |
| 15:07 | hyPiRion | ahah |
| 15:08 | Chousuke | as usual, all documentation online is outdated or hidden inside someone's .emacs.d on github. emacs is awesome, but... |
| 15:09 | Chousuke | I tried to find how to configure that nice fuzzy autocompletion that emacs starter kit had |
| 15:09 | futile | apparently English has an intentional pattern where words that start with "fl" are associated with fast sudden movement |
| 15:09 | Chousuke | but I don't even know what to google for |
| 15:09 | benkay | now that i've been infected with this state management paradigm the idea of database migrations makes me cry |
| 15:10 | Chousuke | the feature that allows you to type eg- p-i-p and get package-install-package |
| 15:11 | Chousuke | and the one that searches the directory tree when you just type a file name. browsing directories manually in the minibuffer is a bit painful even with autocompletion |
| 15:11 | Chousuke | I know emacs can do all this, I just have no idea what it's called and how it's enabled |
| 15:14 | TimMc | futile: flotsam? floating? flat? flange? |
| 15:15 | TimMc | flax, flour... |
| 15:15 | futile | TimMc: only words that started out as English |
| 15:15 | TimMc | flense |
| 15:16 | hyPiRion | flute, flint, etc |
| 15:18 | TimMc | floor, flimsy, flinders... |
| 15:19 | Bronsa | flatulence. |
| 15:20 | stuartsierra | Chousuke: smex |
| 15:20 | stuartsierra | and ido |
| 15:21 | rkneufeld | Chousuke: I use projectile's find-file-in-directory (?) |
| 15:36 | Chousuke | stuartsierra: ido I already have but smex I guess is the one I'm missing |
| 15:55 | futile | ok |
| 16:03 | futile | oooh |
| 16:05 | futile | i kinda wanna try porting this to clojure, https://github.com/JoshCheek/seeing_is_believing/blob/master/lib/seeing_is_believing.rb |
| 16:05 | futile | just because of all the instance variables and methods, just to see how much cleaner it would look simply by being functions |
| 16:06 | futile | not to mention being clojure |
| 16:07 | tomjack | would it have to be at the top-level? |
| 16:07 | tomjack | like the interface is a macro which instruments the code inside? |
| 16:08 | futile | tomjack: uhhh |
| 16:09 | futile | wat? |
| 16:09 | clojurebot | For Jswat: start clojure with -Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=n,address=8888 |
| 16:10 | devn | technomancy: do you know if there are multiple endpoints? It looks like syme just uses us-west-2 right now. |
| 16:10 | tomjack | futile: I mean you couldn't e.g. trace code you had already defined in a namespace somewhere |
| 16:10 | tomjack | (or could you?) |
| 16:11 | futile | tomjack: oh, i dont mean that it would actually work |
| 16:11 | tomjack | you want to write a port that doesn't work? |
| 16:11 | futile | tomjack: i just wanna see the code transformation when going from ruby to clojure |
| 16:11 | tomjack | ah |
| 16:11 | futile | i bet it'd look way cleaner |
| 16:11 | futile | and less confusing |
| 16:11 | tomjack | ..so presumably with some parts missing |
| 16:11 | futile | yeah it might call some non-existing functions |
| 16:12 | futile | the kinda stuff thats ugly and necessary when making it work, but isnt the business-logic of this lib itself |
| 16:18 | technomancy | devn: my understanding is that the region is determined by the AMI you use, but I haven't confirmed this |
| 16:20 | devn | technomancy: interesting |
| 16:20 | devn | testing it now |
| 16:22 | devn | technomancy: I got an "error" |
| 16:22 | devn | not sure what the log looks like |
| 16:22 | technomancy | =\ |
| 16:22 | technomancy | I haven't tested the custom ami stuff at all yet |
| 16:22 | technomancy | do you have a heroku account? I can collab you on it if you want to take a look now |
| 16:22 | devn | yeah |
| 16:23 | technomancy | in this case it's "The image id '[ami-4923611b]' does not exist" but I'll add you if you want to do more debuggin' |
| 16:24 | devn | technomancy: yeah i think the endpoint needs to change |
| 16:24 | devn | technomancy: i was thinking there'd be a dropdown for region, so if you select a region, it will use the default 64bit ubuntu 12.x AMI, unless you specify an AMI ID |
| 16:26 | technomancy | yeah, a dropdown for region would be fine |
| 16:29 | TimMc | technomancy: Thoughts on the instantserver.io thing? |
| 16:29 | technomancy | TimMc: wonder what the Mean Time to Bitcoin is for services like that |
| 16:30 | TimMc | :-D |
| 16:30 | technomancy | TimMc: the cool thing about that one is that they can have a pool of ready instances, whereas with syme you need to spin up a node on demand, so it's a lot slower |
| 16:31 | technomancy | I was thinking about if I ever do something like Syme Pro it could have a slack pool, but it complicates things |
| 16:31 | technomancy | anyway, it's free software; if anyone wants to build Syme Pro they're welcome |
| 16:31 | technomancy | all I ask is for a free lifetime account =D |
| 16:33 | TimMc | Ooh, good point about the pool. |
| 16:36 | technomancy | pros and cons of running entirely in the user's account |
| 16:43 | justin_smith | I has successfully run lein based web servers on the instant server site |
| 16:43 | justin_smith | log in; aptitude install leiningen git; clone my project; lein run |
| 16:43 | justin_smith | boom |
| 16:43 | justin_smith | pretty smooth process actually |
| 16:45 | technomancy | that's an OK way to go if you only have a single node |
| 16:45 | justin_smith | it was just to show something to a friend for a few minutes |
| 16:45 | justin_smith | without having to allocate a real server etc. |
| 16:45 | technomancy | yeah, a real deploy is going to need more infrastructure around repeatability |
| 16:46 | justin_smith | and the fact that it is free helped |
| 16:46 | justin_smith | yeah, of course |
| 16:46 | technomancy | `lein with-profile production run` would be better |
| 16:46 | technomancy | keep dev deps away |
| 16:46 | justin_smith | good point |
| 16:46 | technomancy | also you can save memory with trampoline |
| 16:47 | technomancy | plus you want to freeze your deps so snapshots don't get upgraded out from under you |
| 16:47 | technomancy | at some point it gets simpler to just ship an uberjar to your server |
| 16:47 | technomancy | but it works for a demo =) |
| 16:47 | justin_smith | yeah, just showing a friend the state of my work, the kind of thing I think instant server is best for |
| 16:48 | technomancy | oh; I missed the "instant" part |
| 16:48 | technomancy | heh |
| 16:48 | technomancy | really looking forward to seeing lein2 in debian though |
| 16:48 | technomancy | the profile stuff actually won't work in that scenario since apt still gets you 1.x =\ |
| 16:49 | justin_smith | stability: the cause of, and the solution to, all of debian's problems |
| 16:52 | technomancy | more or less |
| 16:59 | LE_CESSMASTEUR | Raynos, do you still love me? |
| 17:00 | Raynos | What |
| 17:02 | futile | Raynos: correction: "WAT" |
| 17:02 | futile | Raynos: I would also except "wat" |
| 17:03 | futile | Raynos: or "ಠ_ಠ" |
| 17:04 | Raynos | wat |
| 17:07 | futile | (inc Raynos) |
| 17:07 | lazybot | ⇒ 1 |
| 17:07 | Raynos | I think I may have to leave |
| 17:07 | futile | i was just about to say, "stop wasting so much time on irc guys" |
| 17:07 | futile | so yeah |
| 17:08 | Raynes | Raynos: We were just talking IRL about how your name screws up tab completion for amalloy when he is trying to complete my IRC nick. :p |
| 17:09 | Raynos | Oh. |
| 17:09 | Raynos | Well |
| 17:11 | tomjack | hmm, could a dispatch map be a map which specifies a new equality impl on incoming keys? |
| 17:12 | tomjack | no.. that won't work |
| 17:13 | jweiss | anyone have any insight into what's happening here? https://www.refheap.com/15966 it's bizarre, the same clojure.data.xml call, over and over, loading different supposedly unrelated libs in between, and suddenly i get different output. the weird thing is is not consistent, after some random require, the behavior changes forever until i restart the repl. |
| 17:19 | hiredman | jweiss: all that is not using a specific xml parser, it is just sort of grabbing one from the ambient environment, most of those libraries can use several different parsers depending on what is available |
| 17:20 | hiredman | or generators or whatever |
| 17:21 | hiredman | so they sniff the classpath or loaded vars or whatever |
| 17:22 | ztellman | can you get &form on inlined functions? |
| 17:22 | ztellman | or is that only for macros |
| 17:22 | amalloy | ztellman: i don't think you can |
| 17:23 | ztellman | well, that sucks |
| 17:23 | amalloy | ztellman: if(inline != null) {return analyze(context, preserveTag(form, inline.applyTo(RT.next(form)))); } |
| 17:24 | amalloy | so, definitely no |
| 17:24 | ztellman | oh, hmm, the reason I wanted the &form was to preserve the tag |
| 17:24 | ztellman | because it seems to be vanishing |
| 17:27 | amalloy | ztellman: tbh, trying to tag function/macro calls is unreliable enough already that i'd say whoever is writing ^Whatever (your-inlined-function) shouldn't be terribly surprised that the tag falls off |
| 17:27 | ztellman | yeah, this is actually nested inlined functions |
| 17:28 | ztellman | and the outer inlined function is explicitly using with-meta on the inner inlined form |
| 17:28 | ztellman | to no avail |
| 17:28 | amalloy | hah. i see. and you don't want to let it, because then you lose whatever benefit inlining gave you |
| 17:29 | ztellman | amalloy: I was using let before, I was just curious if that has any performance implications |
| 17:29 | amalloy | well, it might or might not. but it means your inline function has less information to work with |
| 17:30 | amalloy | eg, perhaps the inlined thing notices that one of its inner calls is (identity x) and replaces that with just x; if you first (let [y (identity x)] (my-inlined-fn y)), it can't do that |
| 17:30 | ztellman | right, in this case I'm just playing bytecode golf with a bunch of aloads and astores |
| 17:31 | ztellman | I'm trying to understand if they have any impact, post-jit |
| 17:31 | ztellman | but there are certainly other reasons you don't want to have to use the let indirection all the time |
| 17:34 | tomjack | and no &env either.. |
| 17:34 | tomjack | I guess an inlined fn could look at LOCAL_ENV? |
| 17:35 | amalloy | jweiss: you could sorta test hiredman's theory by, before requiring any "unrelated" namespaces, (alter-var-root #'clojure.data.xml/indenting-transformar memoize) |
| 17:37 | amalloy | that would mean the same transformer is always being used |
| 17:40 | dnolen_ | yowza JavaScriptCore is closing the gap w/ V8 as far as ClojureScript is concerned |
| 17:40 | bbloom | dnolen_: nice. |
| 17:42 | wastrel | do emacs users tend to use the gui window or stick to command line |
| 17:44 | jouiswalker | wastrel: i find the gui more convenient since i dont have to bother with weird terminal specific behavior |
| 17:49 | dnolen_ | bbloom: 46ms for JSC to build build a transient vector of 1000000 elements, vs. 20ms on the JVM |
| 17:49 | hiredman | I use gui emacs locally (so pretty on a mac) and terminal emacs on lots of vms |
| 17:51 | justin_smith | hiredman: ever try tramp instead of terminal emacs? |
| 17:51 | amalloy | wastrel: i prefer gui when possible, because there are some combined keystrokes i can't manage to send properly to a terminal (over ssh, at least) |
| 17:52 | justin_smith | more key commands work in the gui, that don't map nicely to terminal |
| 17:52 | justin_smith | ie. in the gui you can have an alt key, a meta key, and a super key |
| 17:52 | justin_smith | ansi can't do that I don't think |
| 17:52 | Bronsa | i use emacsclient -nw because I tend to switch a lot between emacs and zsh |
| 17:53 | gtrak | you can use different font sizes in the gui, that's convenient |
| 17:54 | hiredman | justin_smith: the vm is really a total working environment |
| 17:54 | justin_smith | you can still ssh in, correct/ |
| 17:54 | hiredman | there are services I interact with outside of emacs on there |
| 17:54 | hiredman | sure |
| 17:54 | hiredman | I ssh in and run tmux |
| 17:54 | hiredman | then emacs |
| 17:55 | hiredman | I am sure 80% could be done easily very tramp |
| 17:55 | justin_smith | I realized recently how much more convenient tramp over ssh is rather than ssh in and run emacs |
| 17:55 | hiredman | but I really care about the 100% |
| 17:55 | justin_smith | ok |
| 17:58 | jouiswalker | i'm going to keep tramp in mind |
| 17:58 | jouiswalker | that seems really convenient |
| 18:14 | ztellman | amalloy: for the record, the solution is to write a version of macroexpand that also calls (-> (first x) resolve meta :inline) when it exists, and to use that within the inline form function |
| 18:14 | amalloy | an interesting question came up on stackoverflow, and i wonder what the folks in here think. what, if anything, is the difference between a form and an expression? |
| 18:15 | ztellman | form as in def, if, etc? |
| 18:16 | Chousuke | I think the CL hyperspec actually defines what a form is |
| 18:16 | amalloy | ztellman: form as in list of things. (+ x 1) is an example of a form in any lisp i've heard of |
| 18:17 | Chousuke | but my understanding is that a form is something lisp-specific while expressions exist in all languages |
| 18:17 | technomancy | amalloy: an expression implies evaluation; a form may not |
| 18:18 | amalloy | technomancy: that's basically what i think as well (http://stackoverflow.com/a/17223015/625403), but i think it's enough of a philosophical question ("what is the nature of evaluation?") that there are other reasonable answers |
| 18:19 | brehaut | something something side effects and statements something |
| 18:19 | technomancy | amalloy: the arglist is a good example; it's a form without being an expression |
| 18:19 | amalloy | technomancy: loads of forms (under my definition are not expressions |
| 18:20 | amalloy | ) |
| 18:20 | clojurebot | ) is http://xkcd.com/224/ |
| 18:20 | technomancy | heh |
| 18:20 | hiredman | ~botsnack |
| 18:20 | clojurebot | botsnack is scoobysnack |
| 18:35 | futile | Is there such a thing as, like, (memoize-for-seconds 60 ...) ? |
| 18:35 | futile | That'd be pretty cool for caching. |
| 18:36 | bbloom | futile: https://github.com/clojure/core.cache has TTL caches |
| 18:36 | futile | Neat. |
| 18:37 | bbloom | futile: however, they rely on cache misses to trigger timeouts, which is potentially a problem if you have infrequent reads and want to reclaim memory |
| 18:37 | futile | not for me |
| 18:37 | bbloom | it would be a pretty trivial extension to add an asynchronous timeout |
| 18:42 | futile | thanks bbloom |
| 18:44 | devn | technomancy: you've got a PR and a few messages from me. Let me know if you want me to roll back prod. |
| 18:56 | TimMc | &(.append (StringBuffer.) 5) |
| 18:56 | lazybot | ⇒ #<StringBuffer 5> |
| 18:56 | TimMc | &(.append (StringBuffer.) nil) |
| 18:56 | lazybot | java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: More than one matching method found: append |
| 18:57 | TimMc | ...but I can't figure out how to type-hint the nil. |
| 18:57 | amalloy | TimMc: (let [^String x nil] (...)) |
| 18:57 | TimMc | :-( |
| 18:57 | amalloy | (.append sb ^String (identity nil)) |
| 18:57 | hyPiRion | or Object, for that matter? |
| 18:58 | TimMc | (defmacro its-a-goddamn [class val] (with-meta `(identity ~val) {:type ~class})) |
| 18:59 | TimMc | Well, s/~class/class/ |
| 19:00 | TimMc | (.append (StringBuffer.) (its-a-goddamn String nil)) ;;= #<StringBuffer null> |
| 19:00 | TimMc | Thanks, amalloy. |
| 19:00 | amalloy | TimMc: also, s/type/tag? |
| 19:00 | TimMc | Hmm, yes. |
| 19:00 | amalloy | like, that just works because the compiler decides (identity nil) is an Object |
| 19:00 | hyPiRion | Oh, this I did not expect. |
| 19:00 | hyPiRion | &(.append (StringBuffer.) ^Object (and)) |
| 19:00 | lazybot | ⇒ #<StringBuffer true> |
| 19:00 | TimMc | Indeed. |
| 19:00 | hyPiRion | &(.append (StringBuffer.) ^Object (or)) |
| 19:00 | lazybot | java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: More than one matching method found: append |
| 19:00 | amalloy | hyPiRion: type-hinting macros is fraught with peril |
| 19:01 | amalloy | both 'and and 'or have discarded your typehint entirely |
| 19:01 | amalloy | it works because (and) evals to true, which the reflector can figure out; (or) evals to nil, which has TimMc's original problem |
| 19:01 | hyPiRion | So it just reflected on boolean then |
| 19:01 | TimMc | (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ |
| 19:02 | hyPiRion | &(#(.append (StringBuffer.) ^Object %) nil) |
| 19:02 | lazybot | ⇒ #<StringBuffer null> |
| 19:02 | n_b | cemerick: No reason to do this 140 characters at a time; Long term I'd like to backport a bunch of the Fireplace enhancements in terms of connection/nrepl to a more VimClojure-esque interface, so I'll definitely peek at that Python module and try and contribute back |
| 19:02 | mthvedt | type hints are reader macros. they don't become part of the macro, they become part of the list you're passing to the macro |
| 19:02 | mthvedt | …i think |
| 19:03 | cemerick | n_b: hi :-) You'll likely want to look at the module I'm building now, which is one level above nrepl-python-client. Basically a thin shell specifically for vim<=>nrepl interop. |
| 19:03 | hyPiRion | &(#(.append (StringBuffer.) ^int %) nil) ; ? |
| 19:03 | lazybot | java.lang.NullPointerException |
| 19:04 | hyPiRion | I suppose it's casting it to int or something. |
| 19:05 | cemerick | n_b: I know exactly *zero* about vim UI stuffs, even less about its conventions. Largely, I'll be flaunting them. Again, roughly creating in vim what ccw (and enclojure, and lispworks, etc) has. |
| 19:05 | hyPiRion | (That was a dumb statement, of course it has to) |
| 19:05 | n_b | cemerick: Will definitely keep my eye out; I'm subscribed to the vimclojure ML and just haven't been keeping my eye on it. All in on /[CF]#/ for the time being |
| 19:05 | n_b | cemerick: I'm more or less in the same boat; I learned vimscript purely to make some tools for writing and have never had a good experience with it, which has always dissuaded me from learning more. It makes one pine for elisp |
| 19:05 | LE_CESSMASTEUR | FIRE PHASERS, STARPORT |
| 19:06 | LE_CESSMASTEUR | EVASIVE MANOEUVRES |
| 19:06 | LE_CESSMASTEUR | REROUTE AUXILIARY POWER TO THE SHIELDS |
| 19:06 | LE_CESSMASTEUR | MR PARIS, TAKE IS TO WARP 8, NOW. |
| 19:07 | n_b | cemerick: All the work in terms of dealing with async that I've seen has been along the lines of vim-dispatch, which is really punting on the issue. It's a complaint people have had for a long time but lots of inertia behind it that makes any easy fix more or less impossible |
| 19:08 | cemerick | n_b: my really minor experimentation leads me to believe you can toss stuff at vim from threads in python at will, and it responds as expected |
| 19:09 | cemerick | If (big, big IF there) that holds up, then I suspect the vim-can't-do-async is more of a cultural thing about "everything should be in vimscript, python/ruby/whatever deps is unclean" |
| 19:11 | n_b | I don't know enough to speculate on the reasons; but I'd be very excited to have a proper, emacs-like REPL in vim |
| 19:12 | n_b | (mostly I just want to be able to C-c when I accidentally evaluate a 25MB form at the REPL :P) |
| 19:12 | vsync | will i have any luck at all trying to run nrepl in xemacs? |
| 19:13 | technomancy | vsync: very low chances |
| 19:13 | vsync | is it just a lot of interactive-p versus called-interactively-p and move-beginning-of-line vs beginning-of-line? |
| 19:14 | technomancy | I'm sure the incompatibilities go a lot deeper than that |
| 19:14 | vsync | or a lot of hairy stuff with all the emacs variants of trying to catch up to xemacs features? |
| 19:14 | vsync | :P |
| 19:14 | technomancy | lots of low-level socket communications going on |
| 19:15 | Raynes | tpope: HALp |
| 19:17 | technomancy | cemerick: then you're going to move on to the nrepl-discover stuff, right? |
| 19:20 | Apage43 | https://floobits.com/help/plugins/#vim |
| 19:20 | Apage43 | floobits does some trickery to get vim async stuff working |
| 19:21 | cemerick | technomancy: one step at a time :-P |
| 19:21 | cemerick | Though if I start thinking of ways to build a scheme into vim, come shoot me. :-P |
| 19:22 | hiredman | if you don't just embed guile... |
| 19:26 | Morgawr | http://www.morgawr.eu/p/1371770066.gif woo, clojurescript game engine is slowly coming along :D |
| 19:41 | dnolen_ | Morgawr: neat! |
| 19:54 | cemerick | dnolen_: were you meaning to cut a cljs release? |
| 19:54 | dnolen_ | cemerick: yep |
| 19:54 | cemerick | dnolen_: it's stuck |
| 19:55 | dnolen_ | cemerick: oh I didn't do anything |
| 19:55 | dnolen_ | cemerick: that's some stuart sierra does |
| 19:55 | dnolen_ | something |
| 19:55 | cemerick | dnolen_: oh, cljs releases aren't fully automated? |
| 19:56 | cemerick | the staging repo is fully staged on oss.... |
| 19:57 | Zamarok | Is it possible to write some sort of lazily evaluated list in Java that Clojure can access as an infinite sequence? |
| 19:58 | Zamarok | Maybe someone could point me in the right direction? Examples or libraries to look into.. |
| 19:58 | brehaut | ,(doc iterator-seq) |
| 19:58 | clojurebot | "([iter]); Returns a seq on a java.util.Iterator. Note that most collections providing iterators implement Iterable and thus support seq directly." |
| 19:59 | Zamarok | hmm |
| 19:59 | noonian | was just going to say that in a somewhat more wordy and most likely less correct way |
| 19:59 | Zamarok | I will try some stuff out, thanks |
| 20:00 | hiredman | if your whole deal is java->clojure you could just use LazySeq |
| 20:03 | amalloy | lazyseq would be okay, but honestly i'd just return something that implements iterable |
| 20:04 | amalloy | since seq works on those |
| 20:05 | amalloy | otoh, just trying to sketch out how i'd write such an iterable, i now suspect hiredman's suggestion to use LazySeq might be easier |
| 20:05 | dnolen_ | cemerick: all i know is i always ask stuart sierra to do a release |
| 20:08 | noonian | dnolen_: whats having a new release? |
| 20:09 | dnolen_ | noonian: just release ClojureScript artifact |
| 20:09 | noonian | ah cool, thanks |
| 20:59 | jimrthy | I have a .jar under my ~/.m2 tree. It's in `lein classpath`. Trying to require any of the namespaces that `jar -tf` claims it provides at the REPL causes FileNotFoundException. |
| 21:00 | jimrthy | I feel like a total moron because I'm probably missing something obvious because I don't think I really grasp the way CLASSPATHs work. |
| 21:00 | jimrthy | Is there a decent resource available to help me understand why I'm having this problem (it involves JNI)? |
| 21:01 | hiredman | how are you requiring it? |
| 21:01 | hiredman | in what kind of environment (lein repl, nrepl, etc?) |
| 21:02 | hiredman | have you restarted the repl since you added the dependency to project.clj? |
| 21:02 | jimrthy | I've tried every variation I can think of of (require 'org.zeromq.jzmq) |
| 21:02 | noonian | and this is a leiningen repl? |
| 21:02 | jimrthy | leiningen NREPL through emacs, and I've learned to just restart every time I change everything in project.clj |
| 21:03 | hiredman | jimrthy: and what is the exact file it says is not found? |
| 21:03 | hiredman | (my guess it is a native library jzmq depends on) |
| 21:03 | jimrthy | Could not locate org/zeromq/ZFrame__init.class or org/zeromq/ZFrame.clj on classpath: clojure.lang.RT.load (RT.java:443)Could not locate org/zeromq/ZFrame__init.class or org/zeromq/ZFrame.clj on classpath: clojure.lang.RT.load (RT.java:443) |
| 21:04 | hiredman | or it could be this org.zermq.jzmq is just a broken library |
| 21:04 | jimrthy | I get the same error from a basic lein repl |
| 21:04 | hiredman | jimrthy: which library is this? |
| 21:05 | jimrthy | Yeah, I was about to break down and put together a basic java project to see, but I figured I'd check here first. |
| 21:05 | amalloy | looks to me that it's likely a java library that doesn't provide any clojure namespaces |
| 21:06 | jimrthy | zeromq is a C lib. jzmq is supposed to be a fairly mature JNI piece on top of it. |
| 21:06 | seancorfield | in which case (import ...) instead of (require ...) |
| 21:06 | hiredman | amalloy: sure, if jimrthy isn't pasting the actual error he sees |
| 21:06 | muhoo | hmm, first time i've blown up the heap. i've got 2GB of memory assigned to the JVM, and 2GB of it used as heap, says visualvm, but only a tiny fraction of it as "used heap" |
| 21:06 | noonian | yeah, I think you need to import not require |
| 21:06 | hiredman | but he is loading org.zeromq.jzmq, and the error mentions org.zermoq.ZFrame |
| 21:06 | muhoo | the "perform gc" button is greyed out. alas, i am a jvm ignoramus :-( |
| 21:07 | jimrthy | (import 'org.zeromq.jzmq) |
| 21:07 | amalloy | oh, so he is. i figured he was trying (require 'org.zeromq.ZFrame) |
| 21:07 | jimrthy | ClassNotFoundException org.zeromq.jzmq java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run (URLClassLoader.java:366) |
| 21:07 | muhoo | heap dump shows 11MB of strings and PHM's, but not anythign that looks like 2gb |
| 21:07 | hiredman | which would only happen if org.zeromq.jzmq is clojure and is trying to load a non-existent org.zermoq.ZFrame |
| 21:07 | hiredman | amalloy: or he is really bad at asking for help with errors |
| 21:07 | muhoo | somewhere, i suspect, a head is being held on to |
| 21:07 | hiredman | (I dunno why I just don't jump right to that) |
| 21:07 | jimrthy | Oops, yeah...did I mention that I've been trying lots of variations? |
| 21:08 | amalloy | ~helpme |
| 21:08 | clojurebot | A bug report (or other request for help) has three parts: What you did; what you expected to happen; what happened instead. If any of those three are missing, it's awfully hard to help you. |
| 21:08 | hiredman | jimrthy: that is a java library, not a clojure one, so you need to load the java classes using import |
| 21:09 | jimrthy | I'm sorry...I'm quite the clojure newb. |
| 21:09 | muhoo | somewhere, a java.util.HashMap$KeyIterator keeps growing and growing in size, even though i'm not doing anything |
| 21:09 | jcromartie | so who's the new "Senior Clojure Engineer" at LivingSocial eh? |
| 21:09 | seancorfield | jimrthy: so you have [org.zeromq/jzmq "2.2.0"] in your dependencies? |
| 21:09 | hyPiRion | muhoo: well, you must be doing something |
| 21:09 | noonian | muhoo: are you sure you blew the heap? not the stack? what computation causes the error? |
| 21:09 | seancorfield | and you should (import 'org.zeromq.jzmq.SomeClass) |
| 21:09 | muhoo | hyPiRion: noonian: it's heap. i'm getting OOM exceptions when doing anything |
| 21:10 | hiredman | I would recommend looking at just about any alternative because why would you want to doom yourself to fighting with native libraries from the start? https://github.com/spotify/netty-zmtp gives you what I understand is a slightly dated version of zeromq has a jvm library |
| 21:10 | seancorfield | you have to import specific classes, not packages |
| 21:10 | muhoo | and, visualvm shows heap maxed out, but not used. |
| 21:10 | jimrthy | 2.2.0?? Where did that come from? |
| 21:11 | hyPiRion | $latest org.zeromg/jzmq |
| 21:11 | lazybot | No project by this name exists on clojars. |
| 21:11 | hyPiRion | oh, you. Only on clojars? I had hopes up dude. |
| 21:11 | muhoo | and indeed i'm not doing anything. i have nrepl running, no threads, my webserver threads appear to have shut down. bizarre. |
| 21:11 | seancorfield | jimrthy: I just picked the latest version I found on Maven |
| 21:12 | seancorfield | jimrthy: what dependency do you have in project.clj? |
| 21:12 | muhoo | anyway, i've build this house of cards, adding library after library, and now i'm screwed. my own fault. RAM is not an infinite resource, apparently. |
| 21:12 | seancorfield | you could paste your project.clj file to http://refheap.com |
| 21:12 | muhoo | and some of these libs, or my own code, may have a memory leak. |
| 21:12 | noonian | muhoo: I don't know much about java vm settings, but when you said you have 2G for java and also 2G for the heap makes it sound like theres no memory to use for the stack? |
| 21:12 | jimrthy | @seancorfield 2.1.0-SNAPSHOT...which it's what's in .m2. 1 second |
| 21:13 | muhoo | OutOfMemoryError PermGen space java.lang.Class.getDeclaredMethods0 (Class.java:-2) |
| 21:13 | hyPiRion | noonian: the jvm has a constant stack on 64kb afaik |
| 21:13 | hyPiRion | by default |
| 21:13 | hyPiRion | the heap can't eat from it and vice versa |
| 21:13 | muhoo | the error i'm seeing loks like heap, PermGen space, it says |
| 21:13 | noonian | hyPiRion: cool, thanks for the clarification |
| 21:14 | muhoo | anyway, no prob, if there's no easy/obvious answer, i'll just run with visualvm running and see if i can catch it behaving badly. |
| 21:14 | jimrthy | https://www.refheap.com/15971 |
| 21:14 | hyPiRion | muhoo: are you redeploying much? That may be it |
| 21:15 | muhoo | hyPiRion: what do you mean by redeploying? |
| 21:15 | muhoo | i'm doing a ton of C-c C-k in nrepl.el, for sure. |
| 21:15 | muhoo | which causes the ns to recompile. |
| 21:15 | seancorfield | jimrthy: well, i don't know where you're getting that version from - it's not maven |
| 21:16 | jimrthy | @hiredman netty-zmtp may be my best bet |
| 21:16 | hyPiRion | muhoo: uh oh, that's likely the classloader then |
| 21:16 | seancorfield | but you should be able to (import 'org.zeromq.ZFrame) - that works for me with 2.2.0 in the depencies |
| 21:16 | hyPiRion | muhoo: http://frankkieviet.blogspot.ca/2006/10/classloader-leaks-dreaded-permgen-space.html |
| 21:16 | muhoo | hyPiRion: fantastic, thanks! |
| 21:16 | jimrthy | @seancorfield It's a self-build, based on advice from a blog post. I'll give the maven version a shot |
| 21:16 | seancorfield | jimrthy: but basically the syntax is (import 'some.package.ClassName) |
| 21:17 | seancorfield | jimrthy: or (import '(some.package ClassNameA ClassNameB)) |
| 21:17 | seancorfield | but you want import not require |
| 21:17 | hyPiRion | np |
| 21:17 | seancorfield | and you want to specify class names not just a package |
| 21:18 | noonian | is it more idiomatic to use lists for importing java classes instead of vectors? |
| 21:19 | hiredman | yes |
| 21:19 | seancorfield | and that's because it's (package Class Class Class) so the first element is "special"? |
| 21:19 | hiredman | sure |
| 21:20 | seancorfield | (i've always thought it's a weird difference but it's how i keep seeing it in people-who-know-better's code) |
| 21:21 | jimrthy | @seancorfield That loads at least. Thank you. |
| 21:21 | hiredman | well, that is a very good rationalization, but the reason is because then emacs indents it right |
| 21:21 | noonian | lol, ok thanks |
| 21:21 | technomancy | it's not just emacs |
| 21:21 | technomancy | it's everyone who copies emacs too =) |
| 21:21 | jimrthy | @hiredman Thank you, too. |
| 21:21 | seancorfield | omg! of course hiredman - that's makes perfect sense! thankyou! |
| 21:21 | hiredman | ok, all good and correct editors |
| 21:23 | noonian | yeah, I've been going with emacs indentations except on some def/with-like fns and multiple arity fn declarations |
| 21:31 | amalloy | (inc hiredman) |
| 21:31 | lazybot | ⇒ 18 |
| 21:33 | janpaulbultmann | does somebody know how to read the class attribute of an interface? a la Foo.class in java? |
| 21:33 | justin_smith | ,(class 1) ; is this what you want? |
| 21:33 | clojurebot | java.lang.Long |
| 21:33 | amalloy | janpaulbultmann: that's just Foo |
| 21:34 | amalloy | &[String Long Class] |
| 21:34 | lazybot | ⇒ [java.lang.String java.lang.Long java.lang.Class] |
| 21:36 | janpaulbultmann | justin_smith, amalloy:seems to be of the wrong time thoug |
| 21:36 | janpaulbultmann | http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/nio/file/Files.html#readAttributes(java.nio.file.Path, java.lang.Class, java.nio.file.LinkOption...) |
| 21:36 | janpaulbultmann | god dammit even the javadoc urls are broken by design |
| 21:37 | janpaulbultmann | http://bit.ly/17qO1SA |
| 21:37 | janpaulbultmann | this horrible Files api expects the .class attribute of an interface |
| 21:39 | amalloy | janpaulbultmann: what you're saying doesn't make sense |
| 21:39 | amalloy | only rage against things that are actually possible. interfaces are classes |
| 21:39 | janpaulbultmann | amalloy: I would agree if it wasnt written right here |
| 21:39 | janpaulbultmann | Files.readAttributes(path, PosixFileAttributes.class, NOFOLLOW_LINKS); |
| 21:40 | janpaulbultmann | http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/nio/file/attribute/PosixFileAttributes.html |
| 21:40 | amalloy | you're probably running into the same problem everyone who tries to use nio.file does, ie that java varargs are really arrays |
| 21:41 | hiredman | janpaulbultmann: .class isn't a really member |
| 21:42 | janpaulbultmann | hiredman: yeah I know, don't really know what to call it then though ^^, syntactically its an attribute |
| 21:42 | noonian | ,(class "foo") |
| 21:42 | clojurebot | java.lang.String |
| 21:42 | noonian | ,java.lang.String |
| 21:42 | clojurebot | java.lang.String |
| 21:42 | hiredman | janpaulbultmann: if you want to get super technical java doesn't have "attributes" |
| 21:43 | hiredman | java classes have "members" |
| 21:43 | hiredman | Foo.class is similar looking to member access |
| 21:43 | hiredman | but what you can is the instance of Class for that class |
| 21:43 | hiredman | which in clojure is just Foo, or in this case PosixFileAttributes |
| 21:44 | hiredman | if that is not working for you, I suggest looking at the exception |
| 21:44 | noonian | ,(Class. "testing") |
| 21:44 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class java.lang.Class, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 21:45 | noonian | ,(java.lang.Class. "testing") |
| 21:45 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class java.lang.Class, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 21:45 | noonian | ,(. (class "foo") "class") |
| 21:45 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Malformed member expression, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 21:46 | noonian | ,(. "foo" class) |
| 21:46 | clojurebot | #<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: class for class java.lang.String> |
| 21:47 | janpaulbultmann | hiredman: according to those no such method exists,I first assumed this was because of type mismatch but now I lean towards amalloys vararg hypothesis ^^ |
| 21:50 | noonian | ,(.getClass "foo") |
| 21:50 | clojurebot | java.lang.String |
| 21:54 | janpaulbultmann | hm nope, even when wrapped in (to-array [f PosixFileAttributes LinkOption/NOFOLLOW_LINKS]) it still fails :( |
| 21:55 | hiredman | ,(to-array ["foo"]) |
| 21:55 | clojurebot | #<Object[] [Ljava.lang.Object;@a499fa> |
| 21:55 | hiredman | what is the type the array created by to-array? does it match the type expected by the method? |
| 21:56 | janpaulbultmann | hiredman: I assume it will be an object array as it is used to interact with java varargs |
| 21:57 | hiredman | no, it will be of whatever type the docs say |
| 21:57 | janpaulbultmann | or is only the variardic part in that array |
| 21:57 | hiredman | that |
| 22:00 | janpaulbultmann | ,(Files/readAttributes f PosixFileAttributes (into-array LinkOption [LinkOption/NOFOLLOW_LINKS])) |
| 22:00 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: Files, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 22:01 | janpaulbultmann | still fails with No matching method found: readAttributes |
| 22:01 | janpaulbultmann | so close but jet so far ^^ |
| 22:01 | hiredman | what is f? |
| 22:02 | janpaulbultmann | a file |
| 22:02 | janpaulbultmann | ah |
| 22:02 | janpaulbultmann | goddamit |
| 22:02 | janpaulbultmann | who designs this shit |
| 22:02 | janpaulbultmann | one thing for shure, if I get this garstly api running I'll create a library around it |
| 22:03 | janpaulbultmann | so that no one ever has to feel the pain of java native file io |
| 22:03 | hiredman | clojure definitely needs more libraries written by people who don't know clojure |
| 22:03 | wastrel | does it? |
| 22:04 | wastrel | i don't know clojure! |
| 22:04 | n_b | That seems like a recipe for disaster |
| 22:04 | jcromartie | janpaulbultmann: sounds like you are on the wrong Java version? |
| 22:04 | jcromartie | wait |
| 22:04 | n_b | at the very least, unidiomatic code that's hard to integrate with existing infrastructure |
| 22:04 | jcromartie | janpaulbultmann: never mind, you are figuring it out |
| 22:05 | brehaut | hiredman: maybe they could take on the neglected web framework space |
| 22:05 | janpaulbultmann | jcromartie: yeah every damn place accepts an file |
| 22:05 | janpaulbultmann | except for this one where it has to be a path |
| 22:05 | jcromartie | except that :) |
| 22:05 | janpaulbultmann | god dammit I hate java with as much passion as I love clojure |
| 22:06 | jcromartie | janpaulbultmann: don't hate Java, hate the… OK, hate Java |
| 22:06 | n_b | The issue here is more that Clojure does very little to hide details of the host platform |
| 22:07 | n_b | and it's not an issue, so much as a design choice; one I think that makes interaction between e.g. Clojure and Java much more natural |
| 22:07 | hiredman | brehaut: I would hate to think that we had exhausted all possible ways to push bytes down a pipe |
| 22:08 | TimMc | Poll: With java.net.URL, which "default" value for port do you hate more? -1, or null |
| 22:08 | brehaut | man, rails is almost ten years old |
| 22:08 | TimMc | I'm writing Yet Another One True URL Library, you see, and this is a very important design decision. :-P |
| 22:09 | brehaut | TimMc: i hate -1 more |
| 22:09 | hiredman | why not -5? |
| 22:09 | TimMc | (That is, java.net.URL returns -1, but it could have been designed to return an Integer.) |
| 22:09 | janpaulbultmann | n_b: interop is great, it is really java that is madness, ever tried to find out when a thread pool runs empty without polling or killing the damn thing? |
| 22:09 | TimMc | hiredman: Yeah. :-/ |
| 22:10 | n_b | janpaulbultmann: I have, actually. On the whole j.u.c is really well designed though... |
| 22:10 | janpaulbultmann | n_b: how? custom queue implementation? |
| 22:11 | n_b | IIRC I used latches |
| 22:13 | janpaulbultmann | n_b: yes that works for a bounded work load where the size is known in advance. Once you have an unkown number of jobs or even worse jobs that spawn new jobs, there is simply no way except for a custom queue. |
| 22:14 | janpaulbultmann | and even then you won't know if the threads all finished running,so you need a custom thread as well ^^ |
| 22:14 | n_b | Ah, yea. That's considerably more complex than what I was doing |
| 22:16 | nsxt | Somewhat off-topic but I'm looking for a rosetta stone here... I'm looking for the equivalent of Clojure's partition in Ruby. |
| 22:17 | janpaulbultmann | nsxt: you provide a binary function that returns true at places to split |
| 22:17 | janpaulbultmann | ? |
| 22:18 | n_b | nsxt: Probably taking the length and enumerating across a range and then calling .slice is the interview-question-attempt-#1 approach to it |
| 22:19 | nsxt | n_b: I figured as much, just didn't know if there were a more concise way of doing it |
| 22:19 | ddellacosta | nsxt: maybe chunk will do it? http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.0/Enumerable.html#method-i-chunk |
| 22:19 | n_b | if it's in stdlib it'll be defined in Enumberable |
| 22:20 | ddellacosta | nsxt: but you still have to give it some condition regarding the index I suppose |
| 22:20 | nsxt | The thing is, I'm not really looking to supply a binary function |
| 22:20 | janpaulbultmann | nsxt: sorry reversed that relation, I thought a clojure equivalent for a ruby method ^^ |
| 22:20 | nsxt | I'm just looking for a grouping |
| 22:20 | nsxt | More concrete: I have a range of dates |
| 22:20 | muhoo | has anyone used clojure.tools.trace? i've been trying to figure out how to get it to trace just one function |
| 22:20 | n_b | nsxt: .each_with_index + an accumulator I think |
| 22:21 | n_b | oh |
| 22:21 | muhoo | it will trace the hell out of a whole NS though, producing a spew that crashes emacs. and i haven't figured out how to turn tracing OFF either |
| 22:21 | n_b | nsxt: each_slice(Int n) |
| 22:21 | nsxt | Say from Jan 1, 2012 to Feb 1, 2013. I want groups of full years within that. So the return result should be [Jan 1, 2012..Jan 1, 2013, Feb 1, 2012..Feb 1, 2013] |
| 22:21 | nsxt | n_b, yeah, that's close, but just not quite |
| 22:23 | nsxt | with clojure it'd be (partition 12 1 [etc]) |
| 22:27 | janpaulbultmann | hiredman amalloy: thanks the problem really was in the vararg stuff, and the path/file types I messed up. |
| 22:27 | nsxt | n_b: I suppose I could just loop, use each_slice(), and then drop the first element on each iteration |
| 22:28 | nsxt | Not the most elegant, but... thanks, everyone. |
| 22:28 | n_b | Just go at it loop/recur style :) |
| 22:31 | janpaulbultmann | nsxt: or you could write a thin wrapper in clojure and use jruby ;P |
| 22:31 | nsxt | janpaulbultmann: haha, trying to not go the overengineering route. |
| 22:32 | janpaulbultmann | hehe |
| 22:56 | TimMc | &(.getPort (java.net.URL. "http://google.com:६")) |
| 22:56 | lazybot | ⇒ 6 |
| 23:08 | tomjack | crazy |
| 23:09 | tomjack | &(.getPort (java.net.URI. "http://google.com:६/")) |
| 23:09 | lazybot | ⇒ -1 |
| 23:09 | tomjack | &(.getPort (.toURL (java.net.URI. "http://google.com:६/"))) |
| 23:09 | lazybot | ⇒ 6 |
| 23:10 | tomjack | oooh |
| 23:11 | tomjack | I thought that was xi |
| 23:12 | tomjack | &(Long/parseLong "६") |
| 23:12 | lazybot | ⇒ 6 |
| 23:20 | spoon16 | getting an NPE when I try to run "lein ring war", "lein ring jar" works |
| 23:20 | spoon16 | anyone have any ideas, the stack trace is not helpful and I can't see anything obvious in the google searches that I have tried |
| 23:20 | spoon16 | configuration contains the :ring {:handler |
| 23:21 | spoon16 | and 'lein ring server' works fine as well |
| 23:30 | technomancy | muhoo: I have something for that in nrepl-discover |
| 23:30 | technomancy | https://github.com/technomancy/nrepl-discover |
| 23:30 | technomancy | M-x nrepl-toggle-trace |
| 23:34 | tomjack | wow, I don't think I had ever seen tools.trace |
| 23:50 | mdeboard | Is there a better way of implementing an interface than https://gist.github.com/mattdeboard/5828655 |
| 23:51 | mdeboard | The whole protocol/type/record/reify family of tools gives me trouble wrapping my head around it. |
| 23:56 | muhoo | technomancy: awesome, thanks |
| 23:57 | technomancy | muhoo: still pretty experimental, but it might do the trick |
| 23:58 | mdeboard | If anyone responded to me I had to restart emacs so lost chat |
| 23:58 | muhoo | it looks very promising. worth playing around with for sure. |
