#clojure – 2013-03-25

2013-03-25

00:17	wei_	to answer the above question lein-ring takes an :init function that's great for db connections
00:24	akhudek	hm, anyone here use perforate?
00:49	tyler	is there a way to see what lib lein is trying to download a dependency for?
00:52	akhudek	lein dep :tree
00:52	akhudek	shows all the deps and their dependencies
00:53	akhudek	also, if you aren't using it, use lein-pedantic
00:56	tyler	akhudek: thanks
00:56	tyler	akhudek: the problem i was running into was it threw an exception before lein deps completed becuase there was o dep in clojars
00:56	tyler	so the output of :tree would have never been shown
00:57	akhudek	ah
00:58	tyler	trying to use aleph but yammer metrics jar is fuqored i think
00:59	akhudek	tyler: why not http://http-kit.org/
01:00	tyler	akhudek: because i never heard of it before? thanks for the link
01:01	tyler	(inc akhudek)
01:06	zakwilson	Is there something like subs that can take a negative start? I know it's trivial to write.
01:07	akhudek	zakwilson: don't think so
01:08	zakwilson	And so util.clj grows.
01:36	xeqi	tyler: it wasn't printing out what was missing? can you paste a project.clj that does it?
01:36	tyler	xeqi: it was user error my bad
01:36	tyler	typo in project.clj
01:55	tyler	how do you get a new object in cljs? like a Date with an arg passed into constructor
01:57	bbloom	same was as in clojure: use the (Date. 123)
01:58	bbloom	which is just shorthand for (new Date 123)
01:58	bbloom	although in this case, i guess it's js/Date
01:58	tyler	ah thnx
01:58	bbloom	,(macroexpand '(Date. 123))
01:58	clojurebot	(new Date 123)
01:59	bbloom	but you really want (js/Date. 123)
02:24	yunfan	i checked an repo and when running lein repl , the dependancies is so crazy, it require soooooooo many
02:58	tomoj	.
03:05	Lajjla	tomoj: do you till love me the most
04:16	robewald	pass
04:37	borkdude	say I've got this project.clj like here: https://github.com/borkdude/tictactoe/blob/master/project.clj
04:38	borkdude	I see lib-noir uses a different clojure version, ring version etc, so how do these "conflicts" resolve?
04:38	borkdude	I mostly copied these settings from a luminus project btw
04:58	kral	namaste
05:01	sirup	I keep getting an error about "Can't dynamically bind var: clojure.core/slurp" when I attempt to stub slurp with clojure.contrib.mock. Code + error here: https://gist.github.com/Sirupsen/71924dee7ce92dbcf98a
05:10	sirup	hmm.. seems to work when I directly depend on org.clojars.echo/test.mock "0.1.2" instead of clojure.contrib and include echo.test.mock
07:29	bosie	how would i test if a function is lazy
07:30	bosie	if the operation itself (to retrieve an element) is highly expensive
07:47	ucb	bosie: I'm curious as to why you need to check this?
07:47	bosie	ucb: so i know its lazy
07:47	bosie	;)
07:47	marvin2	Hi, I've clobbered up a namespace and have made a symbol point to a non-standard value; is there any way to get the original binding back?
07:47	ucb	and what would you do with that knowledge afterwards? I guess I'm saying I'm interested in what you would do with this knowledge
07:48	bosie	ucb: i would use it accordingly. if i didn't know if map was lazy or not, i would use map very differently
07:49	ucb	hmm
07:49	bosie	ucb: since there are plenty of use cases with my function that dont require to realize the entire list
07:49	ucb	I'm wondering in what cases knowing whether an fn is lazy or not matters much
07:49	bosie	ucb: it returns a list though
07:50	bosie	so i would use it like (map #() (my-expensive-function [1 2 3]))
07:50	magnars_	ucb: I guess if map was not lazy, you would be more careful about using `take` first.
07:51	clgv	&(apropos "lazy")
07:51	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: apropos in this context
07:51	ucb	magnars_: indeed; I'm trouble figuring out why you shouldn't have all things being lazy to begin with
07:51	ucb	and then ... well, not bother about it
07:51	bosie	ucb: right but i dont know if my implementation is lazy or not
07:52	ucb	bosie: so, I'd say that it is if it's a combination of lazy fns
07:52	clgv	bosie: you can test the return value of a function if it is a clojure.lang.LazySeq via instance?
07:53	bosie	hm
07:53	bosie	k
07:54	clgv	&(instance? clojure.lang.LazySeq (map inc (range)))
07:54	lazybot	⇒ true
07:55	bosie	thank you, will try
08:18	squidz	im trying to use dommy which is like hiccup for clojurescript, but am confused how I am supposed render the created html. This may be javascript specific, but if anybody could guide me, id be thankful
08:32	SonderbladeWork	why doesnt this work? (map #({:x %}) [1 2 3])
08:35	Anderken1	SonderbladeWork: because #({:x %}) means (fn [v] ({:x v})) - you're calling the map
08:44	clgv	SonderbladeWork: use #(hash-map :x %) instead
08:44	clgv	&(map #(hash-map :x %) [1 2 3])
08:44	lazybot	⇒ ({:x 1} {:x 2} {:x 3})
08:45	SonderbladeWork	clgv: thanks
08:57	MikeSeth	for defrecord, is the recommended naming convention CamelCase or something else?
08:59	augustl	MikeSeth: CamelCase, yeah
09:00	MikeSeth	thanks
09:39	jtoy	hi all
09:51	squidz	whats are the best libs to use If I want to create a single-page-application in clojure?
10:00	g4mm4	can anyone recommend a mysql library for clojure?
10:00	g4mm4	clojureQL wasnt updated in a while and throws also some errors when requiring
10:01	squidz	g4mm4: korma
10:01	g4mm4	squidz: nice
10:17	clgv	squidz: ring+compojure
10:22	MikeSeth	hm, sublime repl keeps hanging
10:33	squidz	MikeSeth: use emacs
10:34	clgv	MikeSeth: I think the most supported environments are emacs, vim clojure and eclipse/counterclockwise
10:34	MikeSeth	yeah, I know
10:34	MikeSeth	emestee@terminata:~$ wc -l .emacs
10:34	MikeSeth	145 .emacs
10:34	MikeSeth	:P
10:35	clgv	humm got only 122, might be because I only use it for sbcl atm ;)
10:36	llambda	stuartsierra: is this totally evil and bad? --> https://www.refheap.com/paste/12919
10:36	llambda	arrdem: ^
10:37	clgv	llambda: depends what guarantees you want...
10:37	yogsototh	Hi all. I'd like to take a look at clojure by building a minimal application I'll host on heroku. Is there a standard/recommended way of doing this ?
10:40	llambda	clgv: okay, so kind of evil? :)
10:40	clgv	llambda: there are also macros that do a similar aliasing of vars from different namespaces
10:41	clgv	llambda: midje used something like that (at least until 1.4)
10:42	llambda	clgv: originally i was going to use a macro, but it didn't seem necessary
10:42	clgv	llambda: you only need a macro for that task if you want to specify the variable names you want to alias.
10:43	clgv	llambda: e.g. (alias my.ns var1 var2 ...)
10:44	stuartsierra	llambda: yes
10:44	stuartsierra	It breaks identity of Vars.
10:45	clgv	stuartsierra: is there something preventing true "reference variables" to be used for API namespaces?
10:46	stuartsierra	clgv: I don't understand the question.
10:48	clgv	stuartsierra: I mean code like the one from llambda usually occurs when someone wants to build an API namespace that exposes all functions an external use wants to use. so in this namespace you often just want to build an alias to a function in a nested implementation namespace
10:48	clgv	*external user
10:48	stuartsierra	Why not just have one namespace?
10:50	clgv	stuartsierra: most likely to separate different concerns
10:50	stuartsierra	Namespaces are just that, a space for names. If you want the whole API available as one set of names, then it's one namespace.
10:50	clgv	I mean the implementation of those if you have a small API but larger implementations behind it
10:51	clgv	stuartsierra: I noticed that for example midje did aliasing that way to build "midje.sweet"
10:51	llambda	clgv: that's exactly why i'm doing it
10:52	stuartsierra	I can't comment on Midje, haven't used it much.
10:52	llambda	it seems like i'm "doing it wrong" tho :)
10:52	llambda	i'm coming from python, so that's probably why my brain is tainted
10:52	clgv	In my projects I did need something like such an alias only once yet. so I cannot argue that much for it.
10:53	llambda	i'm trying to avoid writing the same set of functions twice
10:53	stuartsierra	Namespaces are not equivalent to modules in the Python sense.
10:53	llambda	yeah i'm realizing that more and more, stuartsierra
10:53	stuartsierra	Clojure really doesn't have modules in that sense.
10:53	llambda	i miss my modules
10:54	stuartsierra	Namespaces are only there prevent symbols from clashing. Nothing more. How you structure your code is up to you.
10:54	llambda	stuartsierra: what if i wanted to "import" these http functions from the library i'm wrapping?
10:54	stuartsierra	Don't.
10:54	llambda	it's basically just HTTP verbs wrapped around a central "request" function (which i'm redefining)
10:55	llambda	so the best practice is to write the same set of functions twice, in this case?
10:55	stuartsierra	If you're changing the definitions to be specific to your library, then yes.
10:55	llambda	twice in my library, i mean
10:56	llambda	well i don't mean twice in the sense, once in their library, once in mine: it will happen twice in my library between the oauth1 and oauth2 namespaces
10:56	stuartsierra	If they're the same, then define them in one place and make that namespace part of your public API.
10:56	llambda	okay
10:56	llambda	e.g. if it were a "client" namespace?
10:56	llambda	the HTTP functions could live there
10:57	llambda	and then the library could be used by requiring the proper oauth namespace and the client namespace
10:57	stuartsierra	sure
10:57	llambda	all right
10:57	llambda	i can do that
10:57	gfrederi1ks	I'm having trouble with streaming JSON as a ring response
10:57	llambda	i just assumed oauth2/get oauth1/post, etc would make for a more user-friendly api
10:58	llambda	thanks for indulding my incompetence :)
11:00	stuartsierra	Your users will thank you in the long run if you keep your code as simple as possible and don't play tricks with Vars. :)
11:05	llambda	stuartsierra: that sounds like sane advice to me :)
11:10	gfrederi1ks	if I want to stream data into a ring response from another thread I have the issue of handling errors -- having already returned a 200 to the ring adapter, when something goes wrong on the streaming thread I don't know how to turn the response into a 500
11:11	pl6306	Hello, I am new clojure user. Is this the right place to ask questions on how to use it?
11:12	gfredericks	pl6306: yes
11:12	pl6306	I am looking at this function (defn log->list ...) what does "->" mean?
11:13	gfredericks	it's just a naming convention
11:13	gfredericks	usually A->B suggests the function converts an A to a B
11:13	gfredericks	-> is a legal part of the naming syntax
11:13	pl6306	got it so it just part of a name
11:13	gfredericks	yep
11:13	pl6306	Thanks!
11:13	gfredericks	np
11:21	MikeSeth	will require and friends compile the lib on the fly?
11:22	gfredericks	if they haven't been AOT'd, yes
11:24	MikeSeth	ahhh
11:25	MikeSeth	sorry, rtfm'ing
11:30	papachan	hello
11:30	papachan	i am trying to do an import of my file into REPL
11:30	papachan	but i have a ClassNotFoundException com.clojurebook.CustomException java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run (URLClassLoader.java:366)
11:30	papachan	my start project is like this
11:30	papachan	http://paste.ubuntu.com/5646655/
11:31	Anderken1	papachan: you did not add . to the classpath
11:31	gfredericks	papachan: your classpath doesn't include the root dir
11:32	Anderkent	I strongly recommend picking up lein so that you don't have to worry about the classpath
11:32	Anderkent	that or mvn, but lein is much easier to get started with
11:34	papachan	oh yes i use lein and it work
11:35	papachan	but i want to import simply my class into REPL
11:35	papachan	will try to not include .
11:36	papachan	ok
11:38	papachan	tried: java -cp ./clojure-1.4.0.jar clojure.main -r .
11:38	gfredericks	you want -cp .:./clojure-1.4.0.jar
11:41	papachan	ok i uderstance
11:43	clgv	-cp .:clojure-1.4.0.jar even ;)
11:46	Anderkent	Is there an idiom for dynamically selecting which namespace to use depending on some state? I'd rather avoid having to use protocols or multimethods, what I have is two namespaces with the same signatures, and one wrapping ns that delegates to one of these : (if (is-live?) (real-ns/do-stuff) (fake-ns/do-stuff))
11:49	noidi	Anderkent, what you probably want is protocols and polymorphism
11:49	TimMc	No, it sounds like situational polymorphism, not data polymorphism.
11:49	noidi	then you can configure which protocol implementation to use based on the state
11:50	Anderkent	eh, I was hoping I could use a ns like an object, but guess not.
11:50	TimMc	(I'm just making up jargon here.)
11:50	noidi	protocols are the closest you can get to a first-class namespace in clojure
11:51	clgv	TimMc: you do that often lately ;)
11:51	Anderkent	noidi: yes, but they're too annoying to work with, esp for such uncomplicated problem
11:51	MikeSeth	for (defrecord Foo) Foo is an internet symbol that is not a var, correct?
11:51	MikeSeth	interned*
11:52	TimMc	clgv: It's on account of my getting old and decrepit.
11:52	Anderkent	I want dependency injection :P
11:52	clgv	TimMc: had to look up that last word - decrepit ;)
11:53	clgv	MikeSeth: it'll be a class that defrecord statement generates
11:53	papachan	thanks it work fine with my classes folder
11:53	clgv	Anderkent: first-class functions ;)
11:53	MikeSeth	clgv: ah
11:54	noidi	MikeSeth, interning means creating a var for a symbol
11:54	MikeSeth	clgv: so I need to use import if I want to use it in another namespace?
11:54	TimMc	noidi: No it doesn't.
11:54	clgv	MikeSeth: right. better use the automatically generated constructor function "->Foo"
11:54	MikeSeth	oh, that is new then
11:54	noidi	TimMc, ok, looking up or creating :) http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/1.2.0/clojure.core/intern
11:55	clgv	clojure 1.4 (or maybe 1.3 already...)
11:55	TimMc	noidi: Oh, by "interning" you mean "using clojure.core/intern"? Sure.
11:55	MikeSeth	thanks!
11:55	TimMc	Interning in general has nothing to do with Clojure.
11:58	MikeSeth	Oh, I finally get it
12:02	jtoy	if I include a namespace that has a method and then do (resolve (read-string "my_fn_from_other_ns")) it returns nil
12:02	jtoy	why cant i resolve it?
12:03	gfredericks	how did you "include" it?
12:04	jtoy	gfredericks: (use 'interests.enrichments)
12:04	TimMc	25 cents on Gilardi Scenario
12:05	gfredericks	I'll take that bet
12:05	gfredericks	however I don't know why it's not working
12:06	gfredericks	presumably it's some detail you're not mentioning because it didn't occur to you it might be a problem
12:06	TimMc	jtoy: Is this in the REPL?
12:06	jtoy	TimMc: yes
12:07	jtoy	TimMc: in code I do (:use [interests.enrichments])
12:07	jtoy	I think I see
12:12	TimMc	jtoy: The :use is in your ns statement?
12:26	gfredericks	would it be reasonable for a lein plugin to hook the 'jar' task and do some git introspection and write a `git-commit.sha` file to /resources?
12:27	TimMc	Sounds good.
12:28	TimMc	gfredericks: But bonus points if you can create that file in the commit the jar is based on by achieving a hash collision.
12:29	gfredericks	huh; leiningen.pom/read-git-head seems to exist
12:29	technomancy_	gfredericks: you can add :filespecs to project.clj that can have arbitrary bytes or paths
12:29	technomancy_	see `lein help sample`
12:30	gfredericks	technomancy: I saw that recently; it's not clear to me exactly what that means or how I would use it
12:30	technomancy	yeah it's not a very good interface
12:30	technomancy	will be rewritten from scratch for 3.0
12:33	Sonderblade	how do you get the first/any item in a map in clojure?
12:33	technomancy	Sonderblade: you can't
12:34	technomancy	maps aren't ordered
12:34	technomancy	err--you can't get first; you will get an arbitrary k/v pair using clojure.core/first
12:35	hyPiRion	,(first (sorted-map 3 :third 1 :second 0 [:first]))
12:35	clgv	Sonderblade: since maps are seqable you can do the following, but there is no guarantee on the order ##(first {:a 1 :b 2})
12:35	lazybot	⇒ [:a 1]
12:35	clojurebot	[0 [:first]]
12:35	hyPiRion	But I suspect you don't want the sorted-ability. Though it's nice to know about.
12:36	Sonderblade	i know maps are not ordered i just want any
12:40	dnolen	Sonderblade: first does what you want
12:41	kalasjohnny2000	&join #devops
12:41	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: join in this context
12:41	kalasjohnny2000	sry
12:41	hyPiRion	heheh
12:43	kalasjohnny2000	talking about it, what's the most decent way to make a git push and the branch gets into a stage environment?
12:43	kalasjohnny2000	like heroku does, but on my own server...
12:43	kalasjohnny2000	I did try with git hooks, but it feels a bit shakey.
12:45	kalasjohnny2000	is jenkins the way to go?
12:45	nDuff	kalasjohnny2000: shrug. Are you already using any ops-automation tooling?
12:45	nDuff	kalasjohnny2000: ...if you're already a Pallet, Chef or Puppet shop, then it makes sense to leverage that.
12:45	kalasjohnny2000	@nDuff pallet would be the most reasonable, yes.
12:46	nDuff	...then you can push out config changes with the same infrastructure you use for code changes.
12:46	kalasjohnny2000	that's what I want, yes. What is the best... crate... for this?
12:47	pl6306	What does "->" mean in (-> "http://nytimes.com" java.net.URL. .openConnection)? I would google it but "->" doesn't produce any good search results.
12:47	kalasjohnny2000	@pl6306 -> means "take the object coming afterwards and apply all the functions after it"
12:47	yacin_	,(-> [[1 2] 3 4] first first)
12:48	clojurebot	1
12:48	yacin_	,(-> [[1 2] 3 4] first second)
12:48	clojurebot	2
12:48	kalasjohnny2000	@pl6306 http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/-%3E
12:48	pl6306	Thanks!
12:49	nDuff	kalasjohnny2000: Actually -- not in a great position to tell you, there. My personal experience is mostly with Chef; Pallet looks like 0.8 will finally be fitting the bill re: most of my use cases, but it wasn't quite baked for what I needed in the past.
12:49	dnolen	pl6306: it's important to note that -> is a macro, it just transforms the syntax
12:50	tbatchelli_m	kalasjohnny2000: you can always drop by #pallet and ask
12:51	kalasjohnny2000	thank you both of you, @nDuff and @tbatchelli_m :)
13:05	borkdude	Is there a name for apps built with ring, compojure, lib-noir and hiccup? I suggest: Hiricono apps. Say yes to Hiricono! Or Ricono if you don't use hiccup.
13:09	borkdude	lol, I just made this up while biking home, sorry
13:09	jeremyheiler	lol nice
13:10	ejackson	bokdude: or orinoco
13:11	borkdude	ejackson nice
13:13	borkdude	maybe Luminus should be renamed to Orinoco, I wouldn't mind ;)
13:13	borkdude	unless there is some nice reasoning behind "Luminus"
13:51	gfredericks	technomancy: using the private leiningen.pom/read-git-head for getting the commit is a bad idea?
13:51	technomancy	gfredericks: the jar contains the pom with the tag; can you just get it from there?
13:53	gfredericks	from META-INF/maven/group/artifact/pom.xml?
13:54	technomancy	sure
13:54	technomancy	also pom.properties if you don't feel like busting out a parser
13:54	gfredericks	you correctly guessed whether or not I felt like busting out a parser!
13:55	technomancy	I suspect you'd much rather bust out some sick rhymes about XML.
13:56	gfredericks	though to be fair, I probably would have just used a regex. I wonder how many problems I would hava had at that point.
13:56	TimMc	7
13:58	SegFaultAX	technomancy: That's awesome.
13:58	gfredericks	technomancy: so it'd be hard to write a general lib for reading this due to having to know the group/artifact to get the path, eh?
14:00	technomancy	(be sure to visit http://nedroid.com for more lulz)
14:00	TimMc	Nedroid has quite a few of the lulz.
14:00	technomancy	gfredericks: well every lein-produced jar will have a pom.properties on the classpath, yeah
14:03	jcromartie	phew I just solved my JSON dilemma
14:04	jcromartie	create my.project.json namespace with encode and decode functions that wrap whatever lib I decide to use tomorrow :)
14:05	dakrone_	jcromartie: yes, that is always a good idea
14:05	jcromartie	I think clojure.data.json has the best API, honestly… the :key-fn and :value-fn are just about the simplest solution possible
14:05	jcromartie	no multimethods, or installing handlers, or maps of types to functions
14:05	jcromartie	functions!
14:05	jcromartie	what a concept ;)
14:26	patbrown	Does anyone know the significance of #_(function)? For instance in the pedestal.io user.clj file found here https://github.com/pedestal/pedestal/blob/master/service-template/src/leiningen/new/pedestal_service/user.clj
14:26	patbrown	More specifically, what's the underscore for?
14:26	arkx	It's a comment
14:26	tbaldridge	The reader drops whatever is next
14:26	SegFaultAX	patbrown: It comments out the next form.
14:26	Anderkent	patbrown: #_ is a reader macro that ignores the next form
14:27	TimMc	,[1 #_ 2 3]
14:27	clojurebot	[1 3]
14:27	TimMc	patbrown: ^
14:27	tbaldridge	compare to:
14:28	SegFaultAX	patbrown: http://clojure.org/reader
14:28	tbaldridge	,[1 (comment 2) 3]
14:28	clojurebot	[1 nil 3]
14:28	patbrown	So, the only reason to use it in this instance is for terseness?
14:28	TimMc	patbrown: No, the point is that those are different.
14:28	TimMc	[1 nil 3] is not [1 3]
14:29	patbrown	Oh, so you use it, so you don't return a nil?
14:29	tbaldridge	patbrown: in your example from pedestal, the function now returns the result of the call to in-ns, instead of just returning null
14:29	tbaldridge	*nil
14:29	SegFaultAX	patbrown: No. You use it when you want to comment out a form.
14:29	SegFaultAX	,(+ 1 #_ 2 3)
14:29	clojurebot	4
14:30	TimMc	It's pretty rare to see anyone use the comment macro.
14:30	SegFaultAX	,(+ 1 (comment 2) 3)
14:30	clojurebot	#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
14:30	tbaldridge	except for Rich :-P
14:30	TimMc	What you'll sometimes see is this:
14:30	SegFaultAX	patbrown: Note that when the first of those forms is evaluated, it's like the 2 isn't even there.
14:30	TimMc	,[1 #_(comment 2 3 4 5) 6]
14:30	clojurebot	[1 6]
14:31	TimMc	(since #_ only takes out one form)
14:31	TimMc	.[1 #_2 #_3 #_4 #_5 6] is more annoying to type
14:31	TimMc	,[1 #_2 #_3 #_4 #_5 6] that is
14:31	clojurebot	[1 6]
14:31	SegFaultAX	TimMc: Although that gives me some fun ideas for code obfuscation :)
14:32	SegFaultAX	Make it as hard as possible to determine which forms are actually evaluated.
14:32	TimMc	SegFaultAX: #_ can also stack, if you want obfuscation.
14:32	TimMc	,[1 #_#_#_#_ 2 3 4 5 6]
14:32	clojurebot	[1 6]
14:33	SegFaultAX	Wow, I didn't know that.
14:33	Glenjamin	hi guys, is there a common idiom to take an input stream and read it into a byte array?
14:33	TimMc	and it does weird things to anon fn args
14:33	patbrown	I just read the definition in the linked reader page. I'm still a little lost as to the practical usage of it. I stumbled across this because I'm working on conditioning my repl for cljs development. Is there any reason why in pedestal they load up a dev namespace instead of using a function to load code into the user namespace?
14:34	SegFaultAX	patbrown: In the case of the code you linked, they probably did it that way because you don't need to actually refer to anything inside the dev namespace.
14:35	SegFaultAX	It's purely for testing or development or whatever.
14:35	SegFaultAX	patbrown: That form is commented out because they don't want to call dev/start when that dev function is run.
14:36	patbrown	Why put it in there at all then?
14:36	tbaldridge	maybe because it's alpha code?
14:37	patbrown	Just like with the clojurescript one project, the boys at relevance do things way differently than I see anyone else do them.
14:37	SegFaultAX	That code is still highly active.
14:37	patbrown	My questions have been answered, thanks. Reader macros are an interesting part of clojure I've yet to explore.
14:38	technomancy	I put in comments to do things like launching a dev jetty into production code
14:39	TimMc	patbrown: If you use #_ instead of ;; you can provide (well-formed) code samples in a way that your editor will syntax-highlight them. :-)
14:39	patbrown	That's the rub I gather.
14:39	SegFaultAX	I find ;; to be mostly useless.
14:40	TimMc	It's also a way to comment out a multiple-line expression.
14:40	hyPiRion	,(let [a 10] (inc a) #_=> 11) ;)
14:40	clojurebot	11
14:40	patbrown	It just looks better and it doesn't return nil, still giving you proper repl feedback
14:41	TimMc	hyPiRion: Awful/
14:41	TimMc	,(let [a 10] (inc a) #_=> 'eleventy) :-(
14:41	clojurebot	eleventy
14:41	SegFaultAX	I prefer "threeve"
14:42	jro_	when I run lein repl, I get an error: No such var: user/help, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:1:12391)
14:42	TimMc	jro_: Does that happen in just one project?
14:43	jro_	TimMc, yes, if I don't have project.clj, the error disappears
14:44	TimMc	jro_: But does it happen in multiple projects?
14:44	SegFaultAX	Is anyone here using Immutant?
14:45	TimMc	Probably.
14:45	SegFaultAX	TimMc: Are you?
14:45	patbrown	In addition, I'm using piggieback for a cljs browser repl, however when I compile, my "out/goog" directory always goes in the root of my project, instead of "resources/public/js/out/goog" Does anyone know how to set the output folder? Note: my "out/cljs" and "out/clojure" are outputted under the "public/js" path.
14:46	jro_	I've currently just one checked out. Well, if it is just (user/help), then there is no problem.
14:46	TimMc	SegFaultAX: No, then I would have said "I am". :-)
14:46	SegFaultAX	TimMc: Maybe you were just being coy. ;)
14:46	TimMc	I don't know what Immutant is. Some kind of webby thing?
14:47	SegFaultAX	Yea, it's a Clojure wrapper for JBoss AS 7
14:47	squidz	SegFaultAX: why is it useful?
14:47	SegFaultAX	Basically, torquebox for clojure (if you know what that is)
14:47	TimMc	I don't know what JBoss or torquebox is either. :-P
14:48	SegFaultAX	squidz: JBoss AS 7 or Immutant?
14:48	TimMc	Ah, from Wikipedia I gather that it is a beany webby thing.
14:48	SegFaultAX	TimMc: Yea, one of themz.
14:49	SegFaultAX	It brings together a bunch of really useful stuff all in one coherent package: hornetq, infinispan, automatic clustering, distributed transactions, etc.
14:50	SegFaultAX	From an architectural perspective it seems very attractive to have all of that already available in your stack as opposed to hacking together a bunch of disparate components (zeromq, redis, etc.)
14:50	squidz	is it worth it to integrate all that stuff into a clojure app? or wouldnt using individual packages like clojurewerkz provides?
14:51	squidz	be just as good
14:52	jcrossley3	SegFaultAX: i'm one of the immutant developers. wassup?
14:52	SegFaultAX	squidz: I guess it depends on the project. I haven't used Immutant yet, but if I had to venture a guess I'd say because someone else has already taken the time to make sure everything is functional and well integrated.
14:52	SegFaultAX	jcrossley3: I know, I've seen all your talks! Great work by the way. :)
14:52	borkdude	gfredericks about the version from pom.properties: https://github.com/trptcolin/versioneer/blob/master/src/trptcolin/versioneer/core.clj
14:52	jcrossley3	SegFaultAX: thanks :)
14:53	squidz	SegFaultAX: ah right, so Immutant already did all the work to wrap everything in clojure
14:53	SegFaultAX	jcrossley3: What is unclear to me is the actual deployment aspect of Immutant. Eg, I have 5 fresh EC2 nodes, how do I bootstrap immutant on them and deploy new versions across them?
14:53	SegFaultAX	jcrossley3: And how do I do things like rolling deploys, etc.
14:53	jcrossley3	squidz: some folks like to grow their stack organically. some don't. plenty of ways to shave a yak. :)
14:53	SegFaultAX	jcrossley3: It seems like most of your talks and the documentation are geared toward the development phase and not so much on actually running in production.
14:54	SegFaultAX	squidz: Plus JBoss AS7 which is awesome all by itself.
14:54	SegFaultAX	squidz: If you're interested, checkout out jcrossley3 on InfoQ
14:54	SegFaultAX	squidz: Search for "immutant" or Jim Crossley
14:54	squidz	ill take a look thanks
14:55	jcrossley3	SegFaultAX: that is true regarding dev vs prod. the former has been our emphasis up to this point. hoping to focus more on prod during beta cycle.
14:56	jcromartie	well that was easy
14:56	jcromartie	(-> (ScriptEngineManager.) (.getEngineByName "JavaScript") (.eval "print(\"Hello\");"))
14:56	SegFaultAX	jcrossley3: Unfortunately I need that piece before I feel like it's worth spending the time cozying up to Immutant. Do you have any idea when more information will be available? Or do you have tips for getting started now?
14:56	jcromartie	apparently Java 6 comes with Rhino now?
14:56	jcrossley3	SegFaultAX: ec2 is rough due to lack of multicast. we're in the process of getting autoscaling to work on openshift, which is backed by ec2. once we figure that out, we'll publish that config to other native ec2 users who'd prefer not to use openshift.
14:57	SegFaultAX	jcrossley3: I'm not tied to EC2 per se. What do you recommend?
14:57	SegFaultAX	jcrossley3: (And is there documentation for production usage on it?)
14:58	jcromartie	(as of 2006 ...)
15:00	jcrossley3	SegFaultAX: folks running it production now are using homegrown solutions, e.g. scp/rsync of immutant archives. so the story is muddy at the moment.
15:00	jcrossley3	it's on our list :)
15:01	SegFaultAX	jcrossley3: <3 I'll keep watching closely, then. Is Immutant one of your teams top projects atm?
15:02	jcrossley3	SegFaultAX: it's the primary focus of two of our team members. :)
15:07	tcrawley	SegFaultAX: you're welcome to join us in #immutant as well - it has a higher percentage of Immutant users compared to here
15:24	Raynes	gfredericks: You work at groupon?
15:25	borkdude	what is the typical way of deploying a ring webapp? uberjar, run with lein server, war?
15:30	borkdude	maybe I should try immutant?
15:30	amalloy	borkdude: all of those are things that people do, yes
15:30	amalloy	in fact i myself have done all of them
15:30	Raynes	I prefer using lein ring, but uberjars and wars are fine.
15:30	Raynes	But the way amalloy and I run our open source stuff tends to be pretty ghetto, so might not want to listen to us.
15:31	borkdude	amalloy I actually have two simple ring apps I want to host, I don't want to configure a web server, so invoking an embedded jetty is very convenient
15:31	amalloy	so don't do it
15:32	Raynes	amalloy: But then he'll have to actually configure jetty. He needs a web server behind jetty to reverse proxy it otherwise.
15:32	Raynes	No matter what he has to configure a web server.
15:32	amalloy	or just...run it on the right port from lein run
15:32	weavejester	Embedded Jetty behind an nginx stack would be my personal preference
15:32	Raynes	That's what we do.
15:33	Raynes	nginx is easy to configure for a simple proxy to a jetty server.
15:33	borkdude	Raynes I have nginx running, it forwards to 8080 for one app, I can let it forward to 8081 for the second app etc
15:33	Apage43	I was doing a separate jetty and scp'ing wars around for a while
15:34	Apage43	but that required making sure I did all my setup and teardown cleanly
15:34	weavejester	I tend to use "lein ring uberjar" rather than "lein run". It's easier to deploy.
15:34	Apage43	just killing the thing was less to worry about
15:34	borkdude	weavejester what's the difference between lein ring uberjar and lein uberjar?
15:34	Apage43	actually I'm using lein ring uberjar. I'm a bit confused =P
15:35	Apage43	But yeah, I didn't actually want to install lein on the prod webserver box
15:35	Apage43	just java
15:35	Apage43	so I can java -jar the thing
15:35	weavejester	borkdude: The former automatically adds a main method that calls the handler, integrates :init and :destroy, and adds a manifest to make the jar executable.
15:35	Apage43	borkdude: ring uberjar gives you a java -jar'able jar that runs the thing
15:35	borkdude	weavejester this is just what I need tnx
15:48	lsoa	I'm trying to read and parse a json file using clojure.data.json
15:49	lsoa	I'm getting an error, presumably because there's some invalid json in there
15:49	lsoa	Exception JSON error (unexpected character): clojure.data.json/-read (json.clj:222
15:49	lsoa	is there a way to get the like that triggered that error?
15:50	lsoa	line*
15:53	MikeSeth	idiomatic way to replace elements m to n in a vector with another value?
15:56	arohner	MikeSeth: (vector (concat (take m v) new-vals (drop n v))
15:56	arohner	maybe off-by-ones in there
15:56	MikeSeth	thanks, pondering
15:56	bbloom	arohner: you want vec, not vector
15:57	bbloom	,(vector (range 5))
15:57	clojurebot	[(0 1 2 3 4)]
15:57	bbloom	,(vec (range 5))
15:57	clojurebot	[0 1 2 3 4]
15:57	arohner	bbloom: thanks, I always get those mixed up
15:57	pjstadig	if you know it's a vector you might just use assoc over the range of m to n with reduce or something
15:57	pjstadig	instead of going to a seq and back to a vector again
15:58	bbloom	arohner: here's a mnemonic: vector is longer than vec, and [(foo)] is longer than [foo]
15:58	bbloom	pjstadig: that assumes the resulting length doesn't change
15:58	arohner	bbloom: meh. it's only a problem when doing IRC-based development
15:59	bbloom	arohner: what? you bothered to install lein? i do all my coding in lazybot
15:59	arohner	:-)
16:00	rkneufeld	patbrown: Hey, was your question about the dev namespace fully answered? I can provide further detail if you'd like
16:08	borkdude	MikeSeth https://www.refheap.com/paste/12926 <- my attempt
16:12	patbrown	Ryan, my man! Yeah, the use of the reader macro was well explained. Pedestal is a lot like cljs one. There is so much to it, it's hard to know where to start asking questions.
16:14	rkneufeld	Hey! I thought it might be you. Anyways, we load things through the dev function on account of some nastyness with user code. If there are any problems in your user code, it stops a REPL from opening whatsoever. We didn't have enough time to fully iron out the details in our dev code and opted to go the same route and keep the (dev) security blanket.
16:20	patbrown	rkneufeld: I've been playing around with the app and app-tools portion of pedestal. I really like the approach to handling state without atoms. What's your role been in the project?
16:21	rkneufeld	patbrown: I've spent most of my time in app as well. Taking on the role of community manager for the time being as well.
16:22	borkdude	how to change the portnr for the jetty instance, just PORT=xxxx java -jar bla?
16:24	nDuff	rkneufeld: ...ahh -- you're with Relevance? If you don't mind the asking -- do y'all have any intent to maintain Avout?
16:25	rkneufeld	nDuff: I believe that one is totally in the hands of David Liebke. He is no longer with Relevance.
16:25	nDuff	Ahh.
16:25	nDuff	Saw y'all on the copyright statement and assumed it was still a Relevance-sponsored project.
16:26	rkneufeld	No worries, doesn't hurt to ask.
16:28	borkdude	I'm editing a remote file with emacs… it works...
16:41	stuartsierra	As far as I know, no one is currently maintaining Avout.
16:42	bbloom	Bummer, since it's far more pleasant of an API than ZooKeeper... cringe
16:44	stuartsierra	ZooKeeper's not that bad.
16:45	bbloom	I found Netflix's ZooKeeper to be much more useful (and reminiscent of Google's internal Chubby API)
16:46	bbloom	s/useful/usable/
16:46	bbloom	zookeepers API is just kinda... raw
16:46	bbloom	er i mean Netflix's Curaitor
16:46	bbloom	thats the word i wanted
17:18	thm_prover	I'm writing a graphical REPL.
17:18	thm_prover	What is the right way to connect to the REPL / handle long computations?
17:19	llasram`	thm_prover: https://github.com/clojure/tools.nrepl
17:20	thm_prover	llasram`: the word interrupt appears twice on that page, claiming nREPL has interrupt support. do you know ho the interrupt suppor towrks?
17:21	thm_prover	https://github.com/clojure/tools.nrepl/blob/master/doc/ops.md loks like what I want
17:24	llasram	thm_prover: I actually right now don't know much about nrepl outside of the basic architecture
17:25	thm_prover	llasram: thanks for the pointer; building on nREPL looks like a better solution than throwing together my own adhoc solution
17:27	technomancy	you get a lot of useful stuff for free if you build on the nrepl stack
17:54	ppppaul	anyone here using clojure and beanstalk, also how do you feel about it if you are?
17:56	nDuff	ppppaul: You mean Amazon's, or a different beanstalk?
17:59	ppppaul	aws
18:02	ppppaul	i'm wondering about people's experiences using it with clojure. i have no prior experience with beanstalk
18:03	jeremyheiler	ppppaul: We use it to deploy headless Clojure webapps and it seems to work well. (I wasn't the one who set it up.)
18:06	ppppaul	jeremyheiler, can you give me more information as to how you use it? do you deploy via git or war or via lein-beanstalk? does it help you with staging and development environments too?
18:08	kursion	Hi there, i'm new in Clojure's world :)
18:09	auser	hey hey kursion
18:11	kursion	Hey auser :)
18:11	ppppaul	i'm also a user
18:14	jeremyheiler	ppppaul: We deploy WAR files. For environemnts, we built a little webapp that manages the environments and allows us to click a button to deploy.
18:15	ppppaul	interesting
18:15	ppppaul	thanks
18:16	jeremyheiler	ppppaul: np
18:17	auser	jeremyheiler: is that open-source?
18:17	auser	that's sexy
18:17	squidz	i'm getting a lot - Use of undeclared Var - errors while trying to import domina in my namespace. Does anybody else use Domina know what im talking about?
18:17	jeremyheiler	auser: Unfortunately no.
18:18	auser	I bet it'd be rad if it was
18:18	jeremyheiler	auser: I would be, but it's not a high priority at the moment.
18:18	jeremyheiler	It*
18:18	auser	gotcha
18:24	jimkcar	does `lein repl` execute the defined -main function?
18:24	gfredericks	no
18:25	jimkcar	I have code with a database connection that throws errors when I lein repl without the database being there. I can't figure out how it is running.
18:25	jimkcar	what about macros?
18:26	nDuff	jimkcar: Could this code be getting executed as part of evaluating the namespace?
18:26	nDuff	jimkcar: if you do a (def connection (connect-to-the-database)) at top level somewhere, that would do it.
18:26	jimkcar	yeah I assume so, but I can't find where its happening
18:26	nDuff	jimkcar: (in which case, you might consider (def connection (delay connect-to-the-database))
18:27	jimkcar	what about a defmacro .... ~(connect-to-database)
18:27	nDuff	jimkcar: Can you post your code? (refheap is a local favorite, if you don't have a preferred ad-free pastebin already)
18:27	nDuff	jimkcar: macros just rewrite your code; they don't change when the rewritten code is run.
18:27	jimkcar	ok.
18:27	jimkcar	let me scan again, and pastebin
18:29	nDuff	...if you can include a stack trace from a failure alongside said code, that would be helpful too.
18:30	gfredericks	how does one restart the nrepl session, other than restarting emacs and nrepl-jack-in again?
18:31	nDuff	...but I'm sure there's an easier way.
18:32	kursion	Is sublimetext a good editor for clojure guys ?
18:33	technomancy	it's not OSS
18:33	technomancy	so the tooling around it is not very good from what I gather
18:33	technomancy	gfredericks: there's an nrepl-restart command
18:33	amalloy	gfredericks: i think there's nrepl-restart or something
18:34	amalloy	well, that's my helpful advice for the day
18:35	gfredericks	technomancy: amalloy: thank you both equally
18:35	kursion	Ok technomancy
18:35	kursion	Ty
18:36	technomancy	normally I say "go with what you already know" but if you don't know any OSS editors then that's different
18:37	kursion	I find it very light and handy + lots of plugins, better than npp
18:37	amalloy	can we call the process of open-sourcing a previously closed-source app "ossifying"?
18:37	technomancy	inc by me
18:37	kursion	:D
18:38	kursion	(Going to sleep a bit, cya tomorrow)
18:38	nDuff	kursion: There are a few things pretty much critical -- paredit and nrepl support
18:39	nDuff	kursion: I wouldn't seriously consider anything without solid implementations of both.
18:39	kursion	Nrepl = terminal +bash
18:39	nDuff	Not at all.
18:39	kursion	What are your editors .?
18:40	amalloy	those things are important eventually, but if you're just playing around with the language any text editor is fine
18:40	nDuff	Having editor nrepl support means your editor knows what's in your namespaces
18:40	kursion	Hum you mean like the eclipse plugin... ?
18:40	nDuff	...so it can autocomplete functions no matter what library they're from, it can retrieve documentation straight from the live Clojure instance, it can directly run your code...
18:41	nDuff	kursion: the best implementation of all these things is emacs. That said, the Eclipse plugin is working on it, and may eventually become passable.
18:41	kursion	Yeah the only IDE that support clojure is eclipse and the plugins
18:41	nDuff	kursion: Keep in mind that emacs has been editing LISPs for decades. Its tools in the area are very, very good.
18:42	nDuff	kursion: What definition of "IDE" do you use wherein Emacs doesn't qualify?
18:42	kursion	Emacs is alive ? Interresting .... :)
18:42	technomancy	nDuff: everyone knows IDE is short for "editor that's good at Java"
18:42	nDuff	:)
18:43	kursion	Autocomplete + intelli at least, then snippets
18:43	technomancy	snippets are for languages that don't have macros
18:44	kursion	True point
18:44	nDuff	emacs very much has autocomplete, and that autocomplete is nrepl-assisted
18:44	nDuff	and, as technomancy says, snippets are moot in Clojure.
18:44	nDuff	...If you need them, you're Doing It Wrong.
18:44	technomancy	yeah, vim has autocomplete too
18:44	nDuff	(though yes, of course, they do exist for emacs, if you need them)
18:45	technomancy	dnolen: yes, but only because you don't have access to macros that early in the file
18:45	hyPiRion	snippets are usually for `lein new` to handle
18:45	nDuff	kursion: Take a look at the intro video for Emacs Live
18:45	__zero	what's paraedit and nrepl?
18:45	technomancy	the ns macro is not very egalitarian
18:46	kursion	Gonna redownload emacs to see this , has i said i started clojure today
18:46	dnolen	technomancy: I actually have a couple other snippets that come in handy, but it's true I do rely on them less than when I code in say JS.
18:47	nDuff	kursion: http://vimeo.com/22798433
18:47	kursion	Ty for your advices nDuff. I appreciated this little talk :)
18:47	hiredman	clojurescript is just a very complicated set of javascript snippets dnolen has
18:47	technomancy	haha
18:47	kursion	Ok bookmarked for tomorrow :)
18:47	dnolen	hehe
18:48	nDuff	__zero: paredit is a mode specialized for editing LISPs; basically, it makes the editor structurally aware.
18:48	ivan	~paredit
18:48	clojurebot	paredit is not for everyone, but what you need to understand ís how to become the kind of person that paredit ís for.
18:49	technomancy	~botsnack
18:49	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
18:50	nDuff	__zero: ...and nrepl is a protocol and set of tooling for, well, networked REPLs -- with support for adding things like session support, debugging operations, and other extensions via middleware.
18:52	technomancy	,(update-in {} [] assoc :hello "world")
18:52	clojurebot	{nil {:hello "world"}}
18:53	technomancy	^ is that surprising to anyone else?
18:53	amalloy	not anymore
18:53	pjstadig	it has a logic to it
18:53	pjstadig	seems like maybe a bug though
18:54	technomancy	amalloy: because you're paying attention to Leiningen bug reports?
18:54	amalloy	technomancy: because i've known about it for years?
18:54	technomancy	or that
18:54	hyPiRion	how does that make sense, really?
18:55	amalloy	i doubt it will ever change; i just use my own update-in* when i care about the behavior for an empty keyseq
18:55	pjstadig	amalloy: :(
18:55	hyPiRion	,(= (update-in {} [] assoc :a :b) (update-in {} [nil] assoc :a :b))
18:55	clojurebot	true
18:55	amalloy	hyPiRion: the contract (perhaps implicit) of update-in is that you give it a non-empty keyseq; if you give it an empty keyseq, any behavior makes sense
18:56	pjstadig	,(doc update-in)
18:56	clojurebot	"([m [k & ks] f & args]); 'Updates' a value in a nested associative structure, where ks is a sequence of keys and f is a function that will take the old value and any supplied args and return the new value, and returns a new nested structure. If any levels do not exist, hash-maps will be created."
18:56	amalloy	whether that's a good contract i don't want to argue about, but that's the way in which it makes sense
18:56	pjstadig	not sure that's implicit
18:56	pjstadig	[k & ks]
18:56	technomancy	hyPiRion: when you put it that way it's gotta be a bug
18:56	technomancy	possibly a documentation bug
18:56	technomancy	but a bug
18:57	technomancy	oh; hrm. didn't consider :arglists as part of the doc.
18:57	technomancy	so anyway, it's silly but not worth the trek to jira.
18:57	hyPiRion	technomancy: well, the signature is [k & ks], where ks is a seq only. k has to be something
18:58	technomancy	yeah, I'll buy that
18:58	technomancy	don't have to like it though
18:59	hyPiRion	Well, I think it should throw some Arity Exception if it follows that contract.
18:59	hyPiRion	It would be better to have it accept [] though.
18:59	technomancy	clojure isn't really well-known for validating inputs to functions
18:59	technomancy	ahem contains?
18:59	Apage43	it accepts it, it just doesn't do something particularly helpful
18:59	hyPiRion	well, that doesn't mean we can better on doing that
19:00	technomancy	hyPiRion: depends how you define "we" =)
19:00	hyPiRion	well, that was one interesting sentence I made.
19:00	hyPiRion	technomancy: Clojure contributors :)
19:02	amalloy	technomancy: doesn't contains? throw an exception as of 1.5?
19:02	technomancy	whoa seriously?
19:02	hyPiRion	huh, I only thought its docstring changed.
19:02	technomancy	holy smokes
19:03	hyPiRion	,(contains? [1 2 3] :hrrng)
19:03	clojurebot	false
19:03	technomancy	I thought that was a line drawn in the sand
19:03	amalloy	,clojure-version
19:03	clojurebot	{:major 1, :minor 5, :incremental 0, :qualifier "RC6"}
19:03	amalloy	,(contains? :a :b)
19:03	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: contains? not supported on type: clojure.lang.Keyword>
19:04	amalloy	&(contains? :a :b)
19:04	lazybot	⇒ false
19:04	hyPiRion	To be fair, I was more surprised by the fact that it didn't throw there.
19:13	arrdem	anyone here used the Lexington lexer before?
19:27	rationalrevolt	would someone mind looking at a sudoku code at: https://gist.github.com/rationalrevolt/4564280 , and help me understand why (gen-random-board) never completes but (solve test-hard-board) completes? I tried putting prints on the solved? function, and it seems to keep looping even after the board is solved when i run (gen-random-board)
19:28	jimkcar	nDuff: I figured it out.
19:29	jimkcar	nDuff: it was a dependency doing it to me.
19:29	jimkcar	when I require this project, it spews log messages. https://github.com/liebke/zookeeper-clj
19:40	Apage43	rationalrevolt: at first glance it looks like it's not going to short-circuit once it finds -a- solution, but could potentially generate a lot of solutions before it finally unwinds and discards most of them
19:40	Apage43	possibly finding many of them multiple times
19:42	Apage43	mm ,maybe
19:42	Apage43	depends on the lazy-seq behavior
19:43	Apage43	rationalrevolt: you could try grabbing a stack trace at that point (throw and catch an exception) to see how far down it is when solved? is returning true
19:43	Apage43	could be insightful
19:43	amalloy	you're just trying to run the same naive search in a much larger probability space when you start from a blank board. you're generating gazillions of unsolvable boards
19:44	amalloy	(probably. i haven't looked too deeply, but that's one plausible explanation)
19:45	rationalrevolt	hmm, in the solved? function, i tried adding a print of the return value - and it prints true multiple times - that should mean it should break out of the solve function
19:46	rationalrevolt	i know shuffle is not lazy, but cant imagine why that will cause an infinite loop - if i remove the shuffle and start with a blank board - it completes very quickly
19:46	Apage43	you may be being bitten by chunked seqs
19:47	nDuff	...if that's the case, the number of times it continues will be bounded at the chunk size, so it's easy to look for.
19:48	rationalrevolt	I'm positive the shuffle is causing this behavior, because solving an empty board completes immediately
19:48	rationalrevolt	without the shuffle i mean
19:49	Apage43	what's probably happening is that the un-shuffled prospective boards all short-circuit to unsolveable very quickly
19:49	Apage43	where is with the shuffle it is actually going down a lot of solveable paths (due to chunked seqs)
19:49	Apage43	*wheras
19:49	Apage43	*whereas
19:51	Apage43	rationalrevolt: try wrapping your (for …) in one of the seq1's defined in the answer here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10556421/is-for-not-actually-lazy-in-clojure
19:51	Apage43	if that fixes it, then it is due to chunked seqs
19:53	jimkcar	nDuff: did you see what my problem was? I'd be interested to know if others see it too
19:55	jimkcar	if you create a new lein project, add [zookeeper "0.91.0"] as a dependency, lein repl, then (require '[zookeeper :as zk]) log4j messages will spew
19:55	jimkcar	0.9.1 rather
19:56	rationalrevolt	Apage43: I have a feeling you may be right, will check
20:02	rationalrevolt	Apage43: You were right. If i made the result of shuffle a lazy seq, it completes as expected.
20:02	nDuff	jimkcar: Sounds like a topic for a zookeeper-clj ticket. I wonder, by the way, if 0.9.1 is before https://github.com/liebke/zookeeper-clj/commit/70ad3eaf010d74d821ade7f09a878850b88e4af5
20:02	Apage43	interesting
20:02	nDuff	jimkcar: ...could also be a side effect of interacting with java-logging
20:03	Apage43	i guess that stops for from chunking
20:03	rationalrevolt	looks like it
20:05	jimkcar	nDuff: I've been looking through the code and don't see anywhere that would do this. If it was a side-effect of java logging, there still has to be some zk code being run to print out all the logging.
20:05	jimkcar	I'll submit a bug to them.
20:05	nDuff	jimkcar: Well, what's the namespace on the log messages?
20:05	jimkcar	zookeeper.ZooKeeper
20:07	nDuff	It's also possible for Zookeeper itself to be responsible.
20:09	nDuff	...static class initialization can happen pretty early.
20:09	jimkcar	yeah, they have a default console log at INFO level. I wonder if they have some log call in a static block somewhere.
20:09	jimkcar	ugh
20:10	jimkcar	I can't seem to find the log4j.properties that it uses. Probably have one hidden on my classpath somewhere...
20:14	jimkcar	yep. right in the static block: https://github.com/apache/zookeeper/blob/trunk/src/java/main/org/apache/zookeeper/ZooKeeper.java
20:28	dnolen	Simply Typed Lambda Calculus in core.logic part II http://swannodette.github.com/2013/03/25/stlc-redux---part-ii/
20:28	dnolen	trying to move a bit slower than Nada's talk at Clojure/West
20:31	bbloom	dnolen: i see you moved your blog.... my blog has been somewhat stalled by my incomplete migration to a static site generator as well....
20:33	dnolen	bbloom: yeah
20:33	tieTYT	protocols dispatch on type, right? Does that mean they're only useful when you get java classes as input?
20:33	technomancy	tieTYT: unless you use records, but yeah... don't use protocols unless you have to.
20:34	tieTYT	ok I haven't learned records yet, I should look that up
20:34	technomancy	nah
20:34	bbloom	technomancy: well, i mean, records are just java types, right?
20:34	tieTYT	nah?
20:35	technomancy	tieTYT: don't bother unless you're writing performance-critical polymorphic code
20:35	technomancy	which is pretty rare
20:35	bbloom	tieTYT: what technomancy means is this: many new clojure programmers come from OOP & therefore use a lot of types and records
20:35	tieTYT	don't bother with records or with prototypes?
20:35	Bronsa	protocols*
20:35	technomancy	bbloom: hand wavy dismissal to avoid confusion around advanced topics
20:35	tieTYT	Bronsa: right
20:35	bbloom	tieTYT: types and records are often useful, but they are most often misused. so if you are new to clojure, avoid protocols, defrecord, deftype, etc
20:36	tieTYT	i'm writing a program that dispatches based off of the domain of a url. I used multimethods for this because it didn't seem like I could use a protocol when the inputs are all strings/urls
20:36	nDuff	tieTYT: multimethods are indeed the right tool for that job
20:36	tieTYT	i need to dispatch on the value, not the type
20:36	tieTYT	nDuff: good to hear, thanks
20:36	technomancy	whether that's suitable for multimethods is debatable, but it's definitely not for protocols
20:36	technomancy	it's likely you don't need polymorphism at all
20:38	tieTYT	well i suppose I could use a map of <string, function>
20:38	tieTYT	but multimethods seemed cleaner in my newbie mind
20:38	tieTYT	also seems to point out, "I'm dispatching on this"
20:39	nDuff	tieTYT: if a map has functions on the RHS, it's typically pretty clear that it's involved in dispatch. :)
20:40	tieTYT	i suppose that's true
20:50	Frozenlo`	Well well well... I finally made a breakthrough. It seems Googlebot is having a hard time with wrap-force-ssl. Can anyone concur?
20:55	jcromartie	is there any reason not to create a uuid for an item before inserting it in a persistent store?
20:56	ivan	Frozenlo`: you may be able to get some insight by forcing Googlebot to hit your site with webmaster tools and capturing traffic with wireshark
20:57	ivan	Frozenlo`: unpopular HTTPS servers sometimes have bugs, or use wrong options, or your certificate has some weird options Google doesn't like
20:58	ivan	you can also see if Googlebot likes an nginx/apache server you set up with the same cert
20:58	ivan	and compare that traffic to jetty (?)
21:04	Frozenlo`	ivan: I fired wireshark once last week and saw the initial handshake, but nothing beyond that. :/
21:04	dyba	I have a question about this gist --> https://gist.github.com/weavejester/598020
21:05	dyba	on line 19, can anyone explain what is going on with the argument to handler?
21:05	Frozenlo`	Raynes: pinnnnng. Ever had any problem with refheap's https and googlebot?
21:05	dyba	handlers take requests as arguments
21:06	dyba	so I was thinking that by writing the first argument as a map, we are using destructuring to capture the data we need
21:06	dyba	is that correct?
21:09	dyba	I noticed that {{name "name"} :params} isn't the same thing as {:params {name "name"}}
21:13	gfredericks	dyba: yeah the function takes one argument
21:13	gfredericks	which is assumed to be a map
21:14	gfredericks	and it destructures it by pulling out the :params key in particular
21:14	gfredericks	the value under that key is further destructured
21:14	gfredericks	pulling out the "name" key and binding that to the local `name`
21:16	dyba	gfredericks: thanks for the explanation! It makes sense now. :)
21:16	gfredericks	the weirdest thing about map destructuring is that the keys/values are usually the opposite of what you'd expect
21:24	noprompt	i'm a bit confused here. how do i change the behavior of ILookup when using defrecord?
21:24	gfredericks	I don't think you do. You use deftype if you want something more custom.
21:25	noprompt	gfredericks: ah, ok. that's kinda what i thought.
21:34	bbloom	noprompt: i should warn you that if you're trying to make a custom Map type, it's quite a difficult road to travel
21:34	bbloom	ILookup is one thing, but map with custom lookup is quite another
21:36	MikeSeth	is it possible to create a collection that is a generator?
21:36	MikeSeth	ahh, nvm
21:36	bbloom	MikeSeth: depends on what you mean by "generator". but mostly: yes. see ##(doc lazy-seq)
21:36	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([& body]); Takes a body of expressions that returns an ISeq or nil, and yields a Seqable object that will invoke the body only the first time seq is called, and will cache the result and return it on all subsequent seq calls. See also - realized?"
21:37	MikeSeth	bbloom: yeah, I sinned by not rtfm'ing, thanks
21:53	Raynos	Apparently there's a functional clojure GUI framework
21:53	Raynos	one that renders "scenes" or something by taking the current thing and the previous thing and rendering an efficient diff
21:53	Raynos	im trying to find it
21:54	ivan	webfui?
21:54	bbloom	Are you talking about the recently announced http://pedestal.io/ ?
21:54	noprompt	bbloom: yeah, i'm starting to see that.
21:55	bbloom	noprompt: see my dispatch-map for an example https://github.com/brandonbloom/dispatch-map
21:55	bbloom	noprompt: it's pretty tricky to get right, since there are so many interfaces/protocols/whatnot to implement
21:55	bbloom	noprompt: i'm not even sure i got it 100%, what with hash codes, equality, printing, etc
21:55	noprompt	basically i want a custom type that models a CSS rule.
21:55	noprompt	but acts like a map.
21:56	bbloom	noprompt: why does it need to be a custom type? why not just a CSS AST in a tree of maps?
21:56	noprompt	well i dunno.
21:56	noprompt	i've take the approach of modeling the CSS like so ["selector" {:prop-1 "val" :prop-2 "val}]
21:57	noprompt	but i thought it would be convenient to have Rule type that lets me lookup properties easily.
21:58	bbloom	why not just have a function of a rule map?
21:58	noprompt	can you explain what you mean?
21:59	noprompt	like (defrule [selector prop-map]) ?
21:59	bbloom	describe the intended behavior of your desired ILookup implementation
22:00	Raynos	im just looking for examples of big efficient functional GUIs
22:00	noprompt	CSS rules are defined as a selector and any number of declarations.
22:00	Raynos	I cant figure out how to create large modular UI systems
22:00	noprompt	ie, div { prop: val; prop: val }
22:00	bbloom	Raynos: heh, that's a bit of an open research problem....
22:01	noprompt	i'd like the type to have a field for the selector and a field for the declaration map.
22:01	Raynos	i think webfui works
22:01	Raynos	I know how to create large procedural modular UI systems
22:01	bbloom	noprompt: that's SORTA sufficient, it's worth pointing out that CSS selector rules are actually ordered maps & can have duplicate keys and what not, but 99% of the time that doesn't matter
22:01	noprompt	bbloom: right.
22:02	bbloom	noprompt: anyway, what operation are you trying to accomplish?
22:02	noprompt	so to work around that
22:02	bbloom	noprompt: you can't talk about how to model something until you talk about the operations you want to achieve on your model
22:02	noprompt	["h1" {:prop "val"} {:prop "val}]
22:02	noprompt	you can have multiple maps so you can preserve order, overwrite, etc.
22:03	noprompt	bbloom: basically i wanted to make the manipulation of rules easy.
22:04	noprompt	writing css in data structures is fine. but with CSS it's not as clean as hiccup.
22:04	bbloom	noprompt: do you know what types of manipulations you're making most often?
22:04	bbloom	hiccup is somewhat hard to manipulate, you need to do stuff like check if the second entry in a vector is a map and then flatten seqs and what not
22:04	bbloom	hiccup is optimized for expression, not for manipulation
22:05	bbloom	or rather optimized for synthesis
22:05	noprompt	bbloom: right. and i think i have the synthesis part figured out pretty good. there's a few other tricks i haven't mentioned.
22:05	noprompt	bbloom: but i've always wanted to have a flexible CSS that allowed you to pull apart selectors like you would a map.
22:06	bbloom	[:div.foo [:div.bar "baz"]] is easy to write & to compose construction, but if you want to manipulate them later, you're better off with {:tag "div" :attrs {:class "foo} :children { ...}}
22:06	noprompt	yeah and that's what i'm talking about. i could have it like that.
22:06	bbloom	a hiccup parser would read the vector notation and turn it in to clojure.data.xml style :tag, :attrs, :children representation
22:06	noprompt	and then write a few fn's and macros to make it easier.
22:06	bbloom	and by parser, i don't mean reader/parser like from strings
22:07	noprompt	so i guess then, in my case, {:rule {:selector "div" :declarations {}}}
22:07	bbloom	my suggestion is you try writing a function from hiccup -> xml maps (like clojure.data.xml) -> manipulation functions -> back to hiccup
22:08	bbloom	this way both the synthesis and manipulation models are well known and defined for you
22:08	bbloom	and you can get a feel for the design tradeoffs
22:08	bbloom	then go back to designing your models for CSS
22:08	noprompt	wait, you do understand i'm trying to compose CSS not HTML right?
22:08	bbloom	consider things like add-class
22:08	bbloom	or toggle-attribute
22:08	bbloom	etc
22:09	bbloom	yes
22:09	bbloom	i'm suggesting you experiment with this in the HTML design space, since hiccup and clojure.data.xml have already have well designed models for you to play with
22:09	bbloom	you'll get some insights you can apply to CSS
22:10	noprompt	bbloom: ah, right. yeah i started reading the hiccup source starting from the first commit, and slowly seeing how the library was put together.
22:10	Raynos	anyone use webfui ?
22:11	noprompt	i've pulled a lot of techniques from it.
22:11	bbloom	noprompt: if you try to write (fn toggle-class [hiccup-form] ...) vs (fn toggle-class [xml-tree] ...) you'll quickly see what i'm talking about :-)
22:11	noprompt	maybe the best thing to do is wrap up what i've got now, push up an alpha and get some input on the actual source.
22:11	bbloom	er i guess that toggle-class needs a class arg: [hiccup-form cls] etc
22:12	Raynos	noprompt: how do you avoid https://github.com/drcode/webfui/blob/master/webfui-examples/src-cljs/calculator/core.cljs#L44 ?
22:12	Raynos	it feels like the pattern of having `render-all ENTIRE UI` would murder performance
22:12	noprompt	Raynos: i have no clue about that stuff, sorry man.
22:12	noprompt	err woman(?)
22:12	Raynos	:( sorry
22:13	bbloom	Raynos: the same way persistent data structures avoid copying everything: you share previous structure
22:13	Raynos	bbloom: that's fine, but that function returns an entire new thing
22:13	Raynos	it doesn't mutate a thing
22:13	Raynos	i dont understand whom you can share from
22:14	noprompt	bbloom: i'll have a look at that stuff. and like i said i'll push up the code soon and see if i can't get some better insights.
22:14	noprompt	bbloom: actually i did have one other question for you regarding types.
22:14	bbloom	Raynos: like i said, functional UIs are an open reserach problem. this is tricky stuff. go look at http://pedestal.io/
22:15	noprompt	CSS has various units. px, in, cm, em, etc.
22:15	noprompt	imagine i wanted to add px and in together and get cms
22:15	noprompt	(cm+ (px 40) (in 20))
22:15	akhudek	bbloom: how is your term rewriting project coming along?
22:15	Raynos	bbloom: thanks
22:16	danneu	yall know that joke about generating a random string by getting a freshman CS student to quit Vim?
22:16	danneu	well i'm a Vim user using Evil-mode that just got stuck in Emacs-mode for 10 min
22:16	bbloom	noprompt: that might be a reasonable place for a type, but it might also be a reasonable place for [40 :px]
22:17	bbloom	akhudek: i published an early work in progress to https://github.com/brandonbloom/retree -- it's really just a toy at this point. i'm doing a bunch of exploring in the space & that was one experiment
22:17	noprompt	bbloom: that could work, but i'm going to have to do a lot of extra checking
22:17	bbloom	noprompt: i think cssgen does custom units, no idea of the implementation is any good
22:18	noprompt	bbloom: i'll look at it
22:18	bbloom	akhudek: kovasb had asked me about UpValues in mathematica: https://github.com/brandonbloom/retree/blob/master/src/retree/core.clj#L419-L437
22:19	noprompt	danneu: i tried emacs with evil-mode yesterday.
22:20	noprompt	was impressed at how much better the support for vim key bindings have gotten
22:21	noprompt	bbloom: thanks again
22:21	noprompt	cya
22:22	akhudek	bbloom: I like the configurable strategy, looks like a fun little project!
22:23	bbloom	akhudek: the piece i'm most interested in is how to combine this with computing information about the tree & then minimizing compulation when changing the tree, such that it's cheap to evolve the tree & ask questions about it over time
22:24	akhudek	bbloom: that's a really hard problem, though in my experience anytime you can save redoing rewrites is a huge win
22:26	akhudek	exploring rewrites based on term size is also a massive win (e.g. knuth-bendix ordering)
22:27	bbloom	akhudek: did we meet at clojure/west? i'm trying to match names to faces to IRC handles & there was much beer drank last week
22:28	akhudek	bbloom: no, I wasn't at clojure/west, though it's possible we met at the conj. I can't remember.
22:28	bbloom	akhudek: i wasn't at the conj :-P
22:28	akhudek	bbloom: ah, that answers that :-)
22:28	bbloom	random question for the room: is there a variant of (pop []) that returns nil instead of throwing an exception?
22:29	bbloom	but otherwise preserves a vector
22:33	Raynes	Frozenlock: I don't think so. I wouldn't know what a problem with that looks like.
22:33	st3fan	does anyone know how to deal with multiple request params of the same name in compojure?
22:34	st3fan	a request like foo?stops=a&stops=b returns "b" for (:stops params)
22:34	Raynes	Raynos: Dude. Your name is way too similar to mine.
22:35	st3fan	Raynes: nothing soundex can't fix
22:41	Raynos	Raynes: dud no u
22:41	xeqi	st3fan: compojure/handler adds ring.util.params/wrap-params, which uses https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring-codec/blob/master/src/ring/util/codec.clj#L118 underneath. you might have to manually get then out of the request's :query-string if you want multiple ones with the same name
22:41	Raynes	Raynos: This can only be solved with fisticuffs in the courtyard. Duel at midnight!
22:41	Raynos	Raynes: https://twitter.com/Raynes ?
22:41	Raynes	Yes.
22:41	Raynes	No.
22:42	Raynes	IORayne
22:42	Raynos	https://twitter.com/Raynos <-
22:42	Raynos	Once you get your real name on twitter
22:42	Raynos	then we can duel
22:42	Raynes	I would if I could. :(
22:42	Raynos	its easy
22:42	Raynos	go to SF
22:42	Raynos	code at the twitter hq
22:42	Raynos	wait for a good time
22:42	st3fan	xeqi: hmm i think i'll just pass them in comma separated then
22:42	Raynes	Actually, I wonder if I know anyone at twitter...
22:42	Raynos	i had to be in SF for like 6 months before I found a good time
22:42	Raynos	to get my account changed to Raynos
22:43	Raynos	now I need to find someone at google to give me raynos@gmail.com
22:43	xeqi	Raynes: if you do let me know, I want to stake a claim as well
22:43	Raynes	Raynos: Was there any tweets on the raynos account?
22:43	Raynos	two
22:43	Raynos	from 2009
22:43	Raynes	xeqi: Yeah, the problem with the Raynes account is that there are tweets on it.
22:43	Raynes	I'd have to have a really good friend to get them to give me the name.
22:49	arrdem	woah woah. Raynes AND Raynos? man gensym is fucking up tonight
22:49	Raynos	o_o;
22:54	Raynes	I feel like I've seen Raynos in other channels before.
22:55	danneu	wow
22:55	bbloom	Raynes: He's like your core.logic relational counterpart. Raynes is a function and Rayneso is the relation, but we can abbreviate Raynos
22:56	danneu	my irc client gives every name its own unique color. yet of course it gives Raynes and Raynos the same color
22:56	arrdem	ololol
22:56	Raynes	I think to think that I am Raynos's evil twin.
22:56	Raynos	Raynes: I have seen you
22:57	danneu	http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51836583/Screenshots/fv.png
22:57	Raynos	Raynes: do you use coffeescript?
22:57	arrdem	(inc danneu)
22:57	lazybot	⇒ 1
22:57	arrdem	yer all green anyway on my monitor... monochrome xterm aw yeah
22:58	bbloom	danneu: haha. that sucks. i get confused when two people have the same color and are talking to each other & their names are wildly different
22:59	Raynos	danneu: :D
22:59	Raynos	use a better hashing function
23:00	arrdem	gah fnparse make sense.
23:00	arrdem	Raynos: it's probably the Java one TBH
23:00	Raynes	Raynos: I do not use Coffeescript at all.
23:00	arrdem	,(.hash "Raynes")
23:00	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: hash for class java.lang.String>
23:00	Raynes	I may have wandered into the channel for one reason or another at some point.
23:00	Raynos	Raynes: then you are not my evil twin. My evil twin would use coffeescript
23:00	arrdem	,(.hash Object "Raynes")
23:00	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: hash for class java.lang.Class>
23:00	Raynes	Fair enough.
23:00	bbloom	arrdem: hash or .hashCode
23:01	Raynes	&(hash "Raynes")(
23:01	lazybot	⇒ -1854081710
23:01	Raynes	&(.hashCode "Raynes")
23:01	lazybot	⇒ -1854081710
23:01	bbloom	,(map (juxt hash #(.hashCode %)) ["Raynes" "Raynos"])
23:01	clojurebot	([-1854081710 -1854081710] [-1854081400 -1854081400])
23:01	Raynos	I like how clojure outputs java exceptions :3
23:02	arrdem	clojure stacktraces...
23:08	tieTYT2	my question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15628682/in-clojure-how-do-you-download-an-image-from-a-webpage-and-save-it-on-your-file
23:09	arrdem	clj-http?
23:09	clojurebot	dakrone maintains clj-http
23:09	tieTYT2	i'm using that but i didn't see an example of how to do that
23:09	tieTYT2	i want the image, not the html
23:10	arrdem	tieTYT2: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11321264/saving-an-image-form-clj-http-request-to-file
23:10	tieTYT2	nice thanks
23:11	tieTYT2	i'm going to flag my own question as a duplicate
23:11	tieTYT2	instead of deleting it. Might help people who search
23:11	tieTYT2	i have another question though, I don't understand that method signature
23:12	tieTYT2	(with-open [r (java.io.FileReader. "myfile.txt")] ...
23:12	tieTYT2	is that assigning r to the right hand side?
23:12	tieTYT2	how is that possible? I've never seen clojure work like that before
23:12	tieTYT2	i mean except in a let
23:12	arrdem	so that's just a normal binding form...
23:13	arrdem	we do that in let, for, doseq...
23:13	arrdem	everywhere.
23:13	tieTYT2	can you do that anywhere?
23:13	arrdem	no.
23:13	tieTYT2	or are these special cases?
23:13	tieTYT2	can i make my own function that uses this form?
23:13	tieTYT2	this binding form
23:13	arrdem	you can build something else out of that form.
23:14	arrdem	but it's the (with-open) which is creating the binding of symbol r
23:14	arrdem	one could use a (let), but with-open will only execute it's body forms if the bindings were successful (no file open errors etc.)
23:17	tieTYT2	ok..
23:17	tieTYT2	but i can't expose that let as part of my api like with-open does
23:17	tieTYT2	right?
23:17	clojurebot	technomancy: you're right I should explain the reason. The reason is I would like to be able to call aether with an extra parameter for introducing my own :transfer-listener.
23:18	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: What are you trying to do?
23:18	tieTYT2	SegFaultAX: nothing, just trying to understand the clojure language better
23:18	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: What's unclear?
23:19	tieTYT2	i've seen the binding form with functions and let
23:19	tieTYT2	but the difference with with-open is that it's exposed on the outside
23:19	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: What do you mean exposed on the outside?
23:19	tieTYT2	and i was wondering if i can do that on functions i make
23:19	tieTYT2	http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/with-open
23:19	tieTYT2	the caller writes the binding form as a client
23:20	tieTYT2	instead of the person who wrote with-open doing it on the inside
23:20	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: You do that with lets to, though.
23:20	tieTYT2	yeah but lets are on the inside of functions
23:20	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: And yes you can use that functionality yourself if you choose to.
23:20	tieTYT2	i can't expose them as part of the function api
23:21	tieTYT2	wait can i do what this example does on any function I want?
23:21	tieTYT2	i thought this was special to with-open
23:21	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: Nothing special about it at all.
23:22	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: Do you have a repl open?
23:22	tieTYT2	yes
23:22	xeqi	tieTYT2: you have to use a macro and transform the code, possible but rarely done
23:22	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: True (source with-open)
23:22	SegFaultAX	Try*
23:22	tieTYT2	done
23:22	SegFaultAX	xeqi: Not that rare, really.
23:22	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: You should see how they did it in with-open. You can use that as a template if you like.
23:23	tieTYT2	ok i want to make sure i understand this first
23:23	danneu	tieTYT2: been to the readme? lots of examples
23:23	tieTYT2	is r bound to bindings?
23:23	danneu	oh i realized i was scrolled up in chat
23:23	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: I don't think you know what "bindings" are.
23:23	xeqi	SegFaultAX: hmm, I can't recall a similar one in clojars or lein
23:24	SegFaultAX	xeqi: A simliar what?
23:24	tieTYT2	it's destructuring right?
23:24	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: Look at the source, it simply expands to a normal let form.
23:25	thm_prover	http://hpaste.org/84656 <-- this code works fine for evaluating syntacticallyv alid clojure code, i.e. "(+ 2 3)" gets me "[5]". However, when I give it syntacticaly invalid code, like "(+ 2 3", I get "nil" back ... rather than an error message. How do I get error messages back from nrepl?
23:25	xeqi	a defmacro that does a binding transformation into a let
23:25	tieTYT2	this source is a little advanced for me since it has a macro in it
23:26	tieTYT2	maybe it's not a macro, but it's using ~@ and ~ and stuff
23:26	tieTYT2	is there a simpler example I can look at?
23:27	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: It's a macro, you can tell because it uses `defmacro`
23:27	tieTYT2	i'm just looking at this first example and wondering if two arguments are passed in or one: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/with-open
23:27	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: Probably safe to stay away while you're learning. Come back to it in a bit.
23:29	tieTYT2	whatever, obviously r is being BOUND to the rhs
23:29	tieTYT2	i didn't know you could do that when you call
23:29	tieTYT2	i thought you could only do that inside the def of a function
23:30	bbloom	odd:
23:30	bbloom	(let [v [1 2 3]] (into {} [[v 1] [(seq v) 2]]))
23:30	bbloom	vs
23:30	bbloom	er:
23:30	bbloom	,(let [v [1 2 3]] (into {} [[v 1] [(seq v) 2]]))
23:30	clojurebot	{[1 2 3] 2}
23:30	bbloom	vs:
23:30	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: Lets do it to (which is what with-open is using)
23:30	bbloom	,(let [v [1 2 3]] (into {} [[(seq v) 1] [v 2]]))
23:30	clojurebot	{(1 2 3) 2}
23:30	bbloom	equiv is hard.
23:30	bbloom	:-/
23:31	tieTYT2	a let is inside the def of a function
23:31	tieTYT2	but this example is calling a function and using bindings
23:32	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: No, it isn't.
23:32	tieTYT2	that's the thing i've never seen before
23:32	tieTYT2	it isn't?
23:32	SegFaultAX	,(let [a 1] a)
23:32	clojurebot	1
23:33	tieTYT2	ok you can use it outside
23:33	tieTYT2	is that what's going on?
23:33	SegFaultAX	,(let [a 1] ((fn [] (inc a)))
23:33	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
23:33	danneu	you're still inside the let body
23:33	SegFaultAX	,(let [a 1] ((fn [] (inc a))))
23:33	clojurebot	2
23:33	tieTYT2	<tieTYT2> but this example is calling a function and using bindings as parameters
23:34	tieTYT2	this is the the thing that's confusing me
23:34	tieTYT2	can you show me an example doing that?
23:34	SegFaultAX	with-open isn't a function
23:35	tieTYT2	oh right
23:35	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: It's a macro.
23:35	tieTYT2	well is that the only reason youc an do this?
23:35	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: In this case, yes. Macros are evaluated at compile time. They're similar to functions, except their inputs are always unevaluated lisp forms and their outputs are usually also unevaluated lisp forms.
23:36	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: They allow you to transform lisp forms from one shape to another at compile time.
23:36	tieTYT2	ok the world makes sense again
23:36	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: In with-open's case, it's transforming the (with-open [...] ...) into a do or let form, based on the number of forms in the vector.
23:37	xeqi	&(macroexpand-1 '(with-open [r (java.io.FileReader. "myfile.txt")] r))
23:37	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/let [r (java.io.FileReader. "myfile.txt")] (try (clojure.core/with-open [] r) (finally (. r clojure.core/close))))
23:37	tieTYT2	at a high level i get that it's taking that vector and saying "let myvector" when it replaces the code
23:37	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: So if the vector is empty, it literally just becomes a normal (do ...) form.
23:37	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: If the vector is non-empty, then it becomes (let [...] ...)
23:38	tieTYT2	ok
23:38	tieTYT2	thanks for the help
23:39	SegFaultAX	tieTYT2: Again, I suggest deferring macros for a little while until you have a much firmer grasp on normal clojure.
23:39	tieTYT2	well i'm not trying to write them, but i come across code that uses them and it makes me question my understanding of everything else
23:43	danneu	itd be nice if slurp decompressed
23:44	danneu	ive used a few open source projects that lean on slurp and they choke on any gzipped website
23:45	Raynes	It'd be nice if people didn't use slurp as an http client. :p
23:46	bbloom	It'd be nice if stdlibs didn't try to be helpful and automatically interpret arbitrary URIs in their fopen routines!
23:46	bbloom	sheesh, i had no idea that slurp would do that
23:48	tieTYT2	well it takes a URL, i thought it was meant for that
23:49	danneu	i wouldnt be surprised if you could pass it a :deflate option or something. "See clojure.java.io/reader for a complete list of supported arguments."
23:49	danneu	but i see no complete list there
23:51	tieTYT2	i'm getting this error in my repl: CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: require in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:1)
23:52	tieTYT2	this is what I'm running: (require 'my-proj.image-site)
23:52	xeqi	tieTYT2: what namespace are you in?
23:53	tieTYT2	my-proj.image-site
23:53	tieTYT2	wait
23:53	tieTYT2	it worked this time
23:53	tieTYT2	all i did is restart the repl twicew
23:59	tieTYT2	how do I debug this exception? http://pastebin.com/cr9rcPa6
23:59	tieTYT2	seems like there should be a longer stack trace