#clojure – 2012-10-09

2012-10-09

00:02	technomancy	TimMc: unfortunately if you need something to work in the presence of profile operations you have to express it in terms of profiles
00:02	akhudek	callen: "If the LEIN_NO_DEV environment variable is not set, the server will monitor your source directory for file modifications, and any altered files will automatically be reloaded."
00:02	akhudek	https://github.com/weavejester/lein-ring
00:03	technomancy	TimMc: so if you can use leiningen.core.project/add-profiles then it'll get preserved properly
00:03	callen	akhudek: hrm.
00:03	technomancy	the problem is that there's no way to reverse an operation like merging a profile, so we have to just save the pristine copy and operate on that
00:03	callen	now I just have to figure out how to start the jetty server.
00:03	akhudek	callen: lein ring server
00:04	akhudek	it starts a jetty server
00:04	technomancy	I really don't get the point of keeping your dev jetty in a different process from your repl
00:04	callen	'ring' is not a task. See 'lein help'.
00:04	callen	akhudek: ^^
00:04	frio	callen: get lein2 :)
00:04	callen	frio: I am in lein2, that's why it broke
00:04	frio	oh? that works for me...
00:04	technomancy	callen: just start jetty from your repl
00:05	technomancy	it's easy
00:05	callen	technomancy: that's what I've resorted to.
00:05	akhudek	technomancy: I like starting from the repl myself, though I haven't been abel to convince many others of this
00:05	technomancy	callen: it's so much simpler
00:06	technomancy	keeping it in a separate process maybe makes sense if you use textmate or notepad or something, but if you have editor integration you should use it.
00:06	callen	oh you start it from your nrepl-jack-in
00:06	technomancy	yup
00:06	technomancy	(start-jetty #'app {:port 8080 :join? false}) or whatever
00:07	callen	technomancy: do you use 'raw' ring, Noir, or something else?
00:08	callen	well that was a fail, I edited code and it didn't reload.
00:08	callen	so going back to my question, how do I make it auto-reload?
00:08	akhudek	callen: if you are doing the repl route, you can reload most functions in the standard way
00:08	callen	C-x C-e on my handler failed.
00:09	akhudek	but routes and enlive templates area bit different
00:09	callen	clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException: java.lang.IllegalStateException: index already refers to: #'reminders.core/index in namespace
00:09	callen	...not helpful.
00:09	callen	so how do I auto-reload my code...routed handlers included?
00:10	akhudek	callen: could try wrap-reload, though I have not managed to get it to reload routes for some reason
00:10	akhudek	oddly enough the lein-ring plugin does seem to work
00:10	akhudek	http://clojuredocs.org/ring/ring.middleware.reload/wrap-reload
00:10	akhudek	sorry, that's outdated
00:10	akhudek	hold on
00:11	callen	if it doesn't reload the routes, it's not incredibly useful to me.
00:11	akhudek	see the bottom here: https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/wiki/Interactive-Development
00:13	akhudek	then be sure to reload you entire namespace
00:13	TimMc	technomancy: Thanks, that gives me a good start. I guess I can't reasonably make something that's compatible with both 1.x and 2.x, so I'll branch lein-otf.
00:13	akhudek	as to your question about noir vs ring, I prefer ring + compojure to noir myself.
00:14	tomoj	are fn* and loop* the only recur points?
00:15	callen	okay, I got it to do what I want now
00:15	callen	I got lein ring server to work.
00:15	callen	it seemed to auto-reload my code so that seems kosher now.
00:15	callen	akhudek: thank you.
00:22	zackzackzack	How do I make it so I can define what happens when I call nth on a datatype or record?
00:25	trevor`	How do people do JDBC CallableStatements in Clojure?
00:26	tomoj	this feels somewhat wrong https://gist.github.com/9f89e03eb42bef6ddeab ?
00:31	callen	well. lobos seems nice enough.
00:31	callen	is lobos what most people use for migrations?
00:32	zackzackzack	tomoj: Which walk is walk?
00:32	zackzackzack	w/walk I maen
00:32	zackzackzack	*mean
00:33	tomoj	w is clojure.walk
00:33	tomoj	well it's definitely wrong because I don't deref the Reduced
00:33	tomoj	but seems kinda weird to use Reduced
00:39	zackzackzack	Why not this? https://gist.github.com/1d4e89438b8c2bb4d210
00:39	zackzackzack	Hmm
00:39	zackzackzack	It doesn't stop though
00:39	zackzackzack	Nevermind
01:02	callen	how do I get trailing slashes to work in ring?
01:08	tomoj	zackzackzack: I felt like there should be a simpler way to write it, too
01:11	tomoj	I don't have w/walk at the top because f should be able to stop on the root form too
01:12	xeqi	callen: the slashes should show up in the :uri
01:12	xeqi	if you want to act the same as the non slash, you could use a middleware to change it
01:12	xeqi	or redirect
01:14	xeqi	https://github.com/noir-clojure/lib-noir/blob/master/src/noir/util/middleware.clj#L28 is one example
01:14	tomoj	shoot, I wish if were a macro for if*
01:15	tomoj	oh, no I don't
01:21	tomoj	is it an acceptable use of with-redefs to redefine macroexpand-1 to cljs.analyzer/macroexpand-1?
01:22	zackzackzack	tomoj: maybe realize it as a list and then do a search through it with a take while or something?
01:23	tomoj	for the stoppable walk?
01:23	tomoj	"stop" there means "don't descend into the form f returned"
01:25	tomoj	e.g. in my impl, if (reduced? (f form)), then the walk will not descend into (f form), but all the siblings of (f form) are still walked
01:40	zackzackzack	Any particular reason why protocols don't support variadic (& rest) arguments?
01:49	SegFaultAX\|work	When looping and destructuring a list, what is the most idiomatic way to stop when you've reached the end of the list? I usually use something like (loop [[h & t :as c] (if (empty? c) ... (recur ...)))
01:52	SegFaultAX\|work	Somehow that feels more verbose than it needs to be.
01:53	Frozenlock	SegFaultAX\|work: Isn't there 'while'?
01:55	Frozenlock	If it can help: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/take-while
02:01	SegFaultAX\|work	Frozenlock: That doesn't really address my question at all.
02:05	tomoj	&(loop [[h & t] [1 2 3]] (if t (recur t) h))
02:05	lazybot	⇒ 3
02:22	wingy	how do i interact with XML responses?
02:23	wingy	some services only provide XML :/
02:42	zoldar\|away	wingy: define "interact"
02:42	wingy	zoldar\|away: working with xml like i can do with json responses
02:42	wingy	reading elements, attributes .. setting values etc
02:42	wingy	save data to db
02:43	wingy	creating new attributes and elements as well
02:43	wingy	reminds me about DOM manipulation but I have never worked with XML responses
02:44	wingy	how does everyone handle XML resonses in clj/java land
02:44	zoldar	wingy: my bet would be on this: https://github.com/clojure/data.xml
02:45	wingy	cool
02:46	tomoj	"Wrong number of args (-1) passed to: core$map"
02:46	tomoj	interesting
02:47	tomoj	(defmacro foo [] `(~@(map)))
02:47	tomoj	(that one has -2 args)
03:00	wingy	zoldar: clj has basic ops built in http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.xml
03:01	wingy	i might just use that one
03:03	tomoj	there is also clojure.zip/xml-zip and clojure.data.zip.xml
03:03	wingy	i wonder why clojure has different projects for xml though
03:04	wingy	they have those you mentioned but also https://github.com/clojure/data.xml
03:04	wingy	its in the clojure github project
03:04	wingy	does anyone here know why?
03:06	tomoj	clojure.xml uses SAX, clojure.data.xml uses StAX
03:24	wingy	tomoj: i c
04:05	gtuckerkellogg	,(doc repl)
04:05	clojurebot	I don't understand.
04:05	gtuckerkellogg	,(doc doc)
04:05	clojurebot	"([name]); Prints documentation for a var or special form given its name"
04:21	bairui	has anyone here used both clojure and newlisp? have you written serious apps in both? any constructive observations / criticisms / comparisons?
04:22	bairui	(no, i'm not trying to start a war - i happen to like both)
04:25	mucker	bairui: what type of app ? newlisp is a scripting language. clojure from the start is a general language that lets take adv of jvm
04:26	bairui	mucker: no limits on type of app; only that both should be... suitable to the language/platform and be of reasonable size - not just tutorials / toys.
04:27	bairui	mucker: i concede that clojure has the awesome power of all those jvm libs behind it - that is certainly something newlisp has much less of (exhaustive set of libs)
04:30	michaelr525	hello\
04:31	bairui	i saw a presentation on seesaw a few days ago - it looks very pretty. Is seesaw THE recommended way to do GUIs in clojure now?
04:35	mucker	bairui: in my experience, no matter what the recommended way, there is some struggle ;)
04:36	bairui	:-( ain't it always so
04:37	clgv	Is it right that setting unchecked-math to true has no effect when I use primitives and type hints anyway?
04:38	bairui	i dabbled with haskell a while back and noticed they were trying to forge a new path in functional guis... what was that called again? reactive? is there a clojure attempt at this? is it mature/operational?
04:38	bairui	i infer from your previous answer that even if there is one... it's no silver bullet :)
04:40	tomoj	incidentally I am working on a library (not published yet) inspired by reactive, but a very long time till I get to swing, probably never. dom and canvas are early targets
04:40	mucker	bairui: :) don't be afraid to port haskell ideas to clojure
04:41	bairui	lol; my haskell skills are akin to that of a child with large coloured blocks; and that is being disingenuous to the child.
04:41	tomoj	swing would be interesting though.. or maybe android someday
04:42	tomoj	I bet with some synchrony there reactive's behaviors are nicer than in cljs
04:42	clgv	bairui: seesaw is awesome if you want to build a Swing GUI - but I only used it for some smal GUIs yet
04:42	bairui	as i understand it, there already are several swing interfaces - seesaw being one, no?
04:42	bairui	clgv: cool; the presentation i saw on it made it look quite cool. I haven't yet built a gui with seesaw, but i am itching to do so. I have a newlisp app that i will port to clojure/seesaw.
04:43	bairui	clgv: are you implying there are alternatives to wanting a 'swing' gui?
04:45	mucker	bairui: you can use java classes in clojure, so that's one way ... donno alternatives to seesaw
04:45	clgv	bairui: swing is the easiest way since its built-in. there is SWT which is used by eclipse
04:45	bairui	mucker: actually, i was wondering about alternatives to swing - does anybody still write guis in awt directly?!
04:45	bairui	i hadn't heard of swt
04:46	clgv	now you have ;)
04:46	mucker	bairui: awt is a big NO
04:46	bairui	heh :) good
04:46	clgv	I think java world is either swing or swt
04:49	michaelr525	re
04:50	bairui	ok, thanks, clgv. I'll make a note to look at swt, but i'll try seesaw first.
04:52	clgv	bairui: yeah try seesaw first. I don't know if there is any clojure lib that provides an interface for swt
04:52	bairui	cool
05:21	wingy	how can i convert a string with base64?
05:27	tomoj	https://github.com/clojure/data.codec
05:27	tomoj	(String. (encode (.getBytes "foo"))) for example
05:31	wingy	tomoj: ah
05:31	wingy	(ring.util.codec/base64-encode (.getBytes "adasd")) this worked great as well
06:45	augustl	when I build with "lein ring uberwar", everything in {:profile {:dev {:resource-paths [...]}}} gets added to the war
06:45	augustl	how do I build a "production war"?
06:48	augustl	it also contains my dev dependencies, so "lein ring uberwar" seems to assume I want to use the dev profile
06:48	tomoj	try `lein with-profile production ring uberwar`
06:49	augustl	tomoj: "'ring' is not a task. See 'lein help'." hehe
06:51	tomoj	hmm
06:51	clgv	is ring also a :dev dependency? ;)
06:51	tomoj	I found `lein with-profile production lein ring uberwar` somewhere
06:52	augustl	no, it's a plugin - :plugins [[lein-ring "0.7.1"]]
06:52	augustl	clgv: ^^
06:52	clgv	outside of :dev?
06:52	augustl	yes
06:52	augustl	tomoj: same thing, "lein is not a task"
06:52	tomoj	that one makes sense
06:53	augustl	agreed :)
06:53	clgv	what does `lein with-profile production help` list you?
06:54	augustl	clgv: https://www.refheap.com/paste/5616
06:54	clgv	lein-ring should be listed there, right?
06:55	augustl	no idea :)
06:55	augustl	it's not listed with just "lein help"
06:55	augustl	sec :P
06:56	tomoj	works for me
06:56	augustl	works for me too
06:56	augustl	goodie!
06:57	augustl	is it possible to default to the production for just "lein ring uberwar" so we don't make the mistake to build with the dev env?
06:58	clgv	I think that is an error in the plugin implementation - lein uberjar for example excludes the :dev profile
06:58	clgv	augustl: I think you can define an alias that automatically uses the production profile
06:59	augustl	clgv: I'll look that up, thanks
07:06	augustl	resource-paths in leiningen just adds those folders to the classpath, right?
07:23	clgv	augustl: no, it also includes thos folders in the jar
07:41	djpowell	anyone know how to dynamically construct a bunch of OR'd together clauses in Korma?
07:42	djpowell	i can easily take my clauses and reduce over the query applying k/where to it
07:42	djpowell	but i'm not sure how to do something similar with OR
07:52	clgv	djpowell: you could generate a list of your or-clauses using the symbol 'or and where* instead of where
08:00	djpowell	clgv: hmm, not quite figured out how to use where*
08:20	djpowell	ok, got it sorted. just about.
08:22	clgv	djpowell: with where*?
08:38	nkoza	where I can report a clojurescript documentation bug? The issues tab in the github page seems disabled
08:38	gfredericks	dev.clojure.org/jira
08:41	nkoza	thanks
08:48	augustl	would be nice if the issues tab in github could be enabled, but link to an external issue tracker instead, since so many people seem to default to look up issue trackers on github repos
09:01	djpowell	clgv: yeah, with where*; i pretty much did a macroexpand on where, and duplicated the result. bit ugly cause it uses stiff in engine and fns
10:01	edward_	Hi guys, I'm just wondering, in case statement, how can I do nothing for one case?
10:01	clgv	edward_: do not add the statement
10:02	cshell	do nothing or return nothing?
10:02	edward_	hmmm sorry I'm new to clojure so I guess return nothing since clojure is functional :D
10:03	cshell	exclude the statement or return nil
10:04	antares_	edward_: return nil
10:05	edward_	hmm like (nil)?
10:05	edward_	and how can I exclude the statement?
10:05	antares_	edward_: nil is not a function, just nil
10:05	cshell	just nil
10:05	clgv	(case v 10 11, 11 nil, 12 13, 42)
10:06	edward_	oh haha forgot () is calling function
10:18	pandeiro	how do i view the dep tree with lein?
10:20	cshell	you can generate the pom then run mvn dependency:tree
10:20	cshell	but lein probably has an easier way
10:22	jsabeaudry	pandeiro, https://github.com/the-kenny/lein-deps-tree
10:24	nkoza	pandeiro: lein deps :tree (at least with lein 2)
10:26	augustl	https://www.refheap.com/paste/5620 weird stack trace.. If anyone has got some suggestions I'm all ears
10:27	pandeiro	jsabeaudry: nkoza: thanks
10:29	augustl	is there a way to get column info in stack traces? servlet.clj file that seems to cause the error has only one long line in it (it's a generated file)
10:30	antares_	augustl: you are replacing clojure.core/list with myapp.views.attendants/list. This probably confuses the compiler (which relies on parts of clojure.core for some bits)
10:30	jsabeaudry	augustl, I beleive that is coming in 1.5
10:31	antares_	augustl: add (:refer-clojure :exclude [list]). Column numbers are coming in the next release.
10:32	WokenFury	has anyone used Noir validations with enlive? if I try to access noir.validation/errors? in a defsnippet it turns out that noir.validation/errors is unbound, outside of a defsnippet it's bound.
10:32	augustl	yay for column numbers :)
10:33	augustl	antares_: the redefine of clojure.core/list wasn't the problem
10:33	augustl	still getting the same error after adding (:refer-clojure :exclude [list]), the warning is no longer there so it was picked up
10:34	clgv	WokenFury: usually the problem is that those variables are not bound outside a request
10:34	augustl	antares_: oh I was getting another error from another file. Fixed them all, now it works, thanks.
10:35	WokenFury	clgv: my defsnippet is called from within a noir/defpage though, so the request is definitely active and errors is bound in the defpage
10:38	clgv	WokenFury: maybe defsnippet tries to use errors on macro expansion time?
10:39	clgv	I dont know how defsnippet works ;)
10:40	antares_	WokenFury: you can also try http://clojurevalidations.info, it is a completely standalone library, no implicit use of vars (otherwise noir.validation is just as good)
10:43	WokenFury	looks like someone else ran into this. let me test snippets outside of deftemplate https://github.com/cgrand/enlive/issues/30
10:45	edward_	hmm, is there any other way of "do nothing" instead of returning nil in clojure?
10:47	augustl	edward_: depends on what you're working with I guess
10:47	jsabeaudry	edward_, removing the statement
10:47	augustl	edward_: + returns 0 with no arguments, which will cause it to "do nothing"
10:47	jsabeaudry	augustl, taking note of that for 4clojure :)
10:47	antares_	edward_: in Clojure, you primarily work with returned values. Everything is an expression. So returning nil, 0 or any other sensible value is typically how you do it.
10:48	augustl	jsabeaudry: :D
10:49	edward_	ya but the problem is, I'm working with enlive, and I have this case statement. For one case I can't return nil cuz that would literally render nil in the frontpage
10:49	antares_	edward_: if you want a function that "does nothing", there is clojure.core/identity that takes something and returns exactly what it is given.
10:49	edward_	oh nice !
10:49	antares_	edward_: use an empty string
10:50	edward_	hmm it gives me indexoutofbounds if i use empty string, but let me try identity first
10:50	edward_	nice it worked just the way I wanted :D
10:50	edward_	Thanks guys
10:53	pandeiro	drewr: can i ask you a postal/javax.mail question? do you know why MimeMultipart parts are sometimes encoded as base64 and sometimes as 7bit?
10:57	WokenFury	grrrr. having major regrets about rewriting this hiccup code in enlive. less code in enlive, but more random explosions
11:01	drewr	pandeiro: I don't know off the top of my head; can you give me an example of the two?
11:02	pandeiro	drewr: so i'm looking through postal/message.clj... when it calls (.attachFile msg "foo.png"), the result MimeBodyPart ends up yielding an instance of com.sun.mail.util.BASE64DecoderStream
11:03	pandeiro	but at the repl, when I manually do the same, the MimeBodyPart.getContent() yields a regular InputStream
11:03	pandeiro	i am trying to debug some problems with using BASE64DecoderStream in another lib, and I am baffled at the seemingly random results
11:05	pandeiro	it seems like with postal, and with mail clients like Alpine too, plaintext files end up encoded as 7bit (SharedByteArrayInputStream instances), while binaries like pdfs and pngs end up as BASE64DecoderStream
11:06	pandeiro	yet if you do (.getContent (doto (javax.mail.internet.MimeBodyPart.) (.attachFile "foo.pdf"))), you get an instance of FileInputStream
11:07	drewr	that all sounds right to me
11:07	pandeiro	how is it determining which to encode as which, and why the different behavior at the REPL and in message.clj?
11:09	pandeiro	is there somewhere postal 'hints' to javax.mail.internet.MimeBodyPart that it should encode those binaries as base64 instead of FileInputStream? or does FileInputStream get converted magically when you do Transport/send or something?
11:09	drewr	no, that's all javamail
11:11	pandeiro	damn i am stumped by this... anyway sorry for bothering ya
11:13	arrdem	,(= identity (fn [x] x))
11:13	clojurebot	false
11:27	Kototama	hi, how can I make th equivalent JS call "new Backbone.View({})" in clojurescript?
11:30	ohpauleez	Kototama: If you can require the Backbone namespace (if it's setup like a Closure lib), you would require it and then do: (Backbone.View. {})
11:32	ohpauleez	If it's a singleton and you're using a function call, you might end up with something like (.View Backbone {})
11:34	Kototama	don't I need prefix Backbone with js/Backbone?
11:34	Kototama	and how can I specify that the call is a 'new' ?
11:34	Kototama	.View will just invoke the function no?
11:37	nDuff	Kototama: (View.) constructs a new object.
11:37	nDuff	Kototama: ...as opposed to .View
11:37	ohpauleez	Kototama: Right, like my first example
11:37	nDuff	ahh.
11:37	Kototama	ok but if I don't required the lib but used a dynamically loaded library
11:37	nDuff	...so, ohpauleez's answer looks right.
11:38	nDuff	the "." being on the end specifies that it's a new.
11:38	Kototama	(js/Backbone/View.) won't work
11:39	ohpauleez	Kototama: If you're using it that way: (js/Backbone.View. {})
11:39	nDuff	...well, that's a Clojure {}, not a JS {}, no?
11:39	ohpauleez	but that's not advised - you're going to have to externs that stuff
11:39	Kototama	yeah okk I'm just playing with existing code to see what I could do with clojurescript
11:40	Kototama	because JS makes me cry everytime I forget that the context of 'this' has changed :-s
11:41	Kototama	ah! js/Backbone.View works but if I remember correctly this is some new syntax, not clojure comptible
11:42	ohpauleez	Kototama: That's regular Clojure code, JVM interop works very similarly, with the exception of the js/ piece
11:43	Kototama	nDuff: you'right {} is passed as a cljs.core.ObjMap
11:43	ohpauleez	the reason for periods and not slashes happens because you're using js/ and you're accessing a constructor, not hitting an aliased namespace
11:43	Kototama	ohpauleez: ok i need to relook at that because I didn't write any niterop code since a long time
11:43	clojurebot	primetime \|is\| <lowlycoder> i'm not convined clojure is ready for primetime until i see facebook apps in clojure
11:44	ohpauleez	Kototama: (js-obj) I believe is the form, but you're probably better off extending appropriate protocols to Backbone stuff
11:44	Kototama	well you're right java.lang.Integer just uses plain dot and is clojure
11:44	Kototama	yep
11:45	Kototama	not sure how to do that in clojurescript
11:45	ohpauleez	Kototama: The same way you do it in Clojure
11:46	ohpauleez	let me get you an example
11:46	ohpauleez	Kototama: http://shoreleave.github.com/shoreleave-browser/#shoreleave.browser.cookies
11:47	drewr	pandeiro: sry, I would look into it more but I can't atm
11:47	ohpauleez	Here I extend Closure's Cookies support, so I can use map-like lookups
11:48	SegFaultAX\|work	Has anyone else seen Brendan Eich's talk at Strange Loop about JavaScript?
11:48	Kototama	wow it looks really easy
11:49	ohpauleez	very easy
11:50	Kototama	but this would not really create new Backbone.Views / Models but only add clojurescript methods to the backbone types right?
11:50	Kototama	so that I call count or whatever on the models
11:51	Kototama	+could
11:51	ohpauleez	Kototama: You would do something like: (def cookies (goog.net.Cookies. js/document))
11:51	ohpauleez	or wrap the constructor call
11:51	SegFaultAX\|work	It seems like they've just taken a random smattering of features from Python and Ruby and added them to JavaScript haphazardly.
11:52	ohpauleez	and then with the protocols extended to the object in Backbone, you can use standard Clojure functions on them
11:52	ohpauleez	treating views like maps, vectors, whatever you want
11:52	ohpauleez	SegFaultAX\|work: Who has? Backbone?
11:53	SegFaultAX\|work	ohpauleez: The ECMAScript team.
11:53	Kototama	ok but the render function for instance for views should be dispatched on instances; not on the type
11:53	ohpauleez	ahh yes, the new specs are adopting a lot of things that are prevalent in other circles and patching up some oddities in the spec
11:53	Kototama	it's like the method of an object basically
11:54	SegFaultAX\|work	ohpauleez: Check it - http://brendaneich.github.com/Strange-Loop-2012/#/
11:54	SegFaultAX\|work	ohpauleez: Slides on his talk at Strange Loop about features coming in ES6 and ES7.
11:54	ohpauleez	nutty, I definitely will
11:54	SegFaultAX\|work	ohpauleez: Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're doing it. It might actually make JS a sensible language to some degree. But the selection of features is pretty random. Maybe that's a good thing?
11:55	duck1123	there are protocol extensions to backbone?
11:55	Kototama	for instance you can't do that with extend-type http://paste2.org/p/2316251 right?
11:56	Kototama	I need to call the extend function first to create instances of views and only then I would be able to user the generic function defined by extend-type for it
11:56	antoineB	,(nth 2 [:a :b :c])
11:56	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
11:57	Kototama	but the specific render function needs to be passed in the hash of the extend call, right?
11:57	antoineB	,(nth [:a :b :c] 2)
11:57	clojurebot	:c
11:57	duck1123	Kototama: Here's how I've been using Backbone w/ cljs https://github.com/duck1123/jiksnu/blob/pending/src-cljs/jiksnu/model.cljs
11:59	Kototama	duck1123: really helpfull thank you
11:59	duck1123	I made my own backbone ns so I could easily reference those classes
12:00	duck1123	next step will be a macro to make those model defs really pretty
12:00	TimMc	clojurebot: Why so sad?
12:00	clojurebot	No entiendo
12:01	Kototama	duck1123: and then do a lib that I can import ;-)
12:01	jconnolly	,(nth [:a :b :c] 2)
12:01	clojurebot	:c
12:01	duck1123	Kototama: That'll be the idea
12:01	duck1123	in the mean time, feel free to steal any of that you find useful
12:02	Kototama	thank you I'll have a look at that
12:04	duck1123	if you hold on, I have new stuff to push
12:04	antoineB	do you know any big application done in clojurescript?
12:07	Kototama	duck1123: i'm not in the hurry, I will have a look at it tomorrow
12:07	fckw	Hi there.
12:07	fckw	Got a FP question:
12:07	fckw	I have a map with key-value pairs.
12:07	Kototama	I need to see If I stick to JS until the end of the project or switch to ClojureScript to preserve my calm :-)
12:07	duck1123	Kototama: well, it's all there on the pending branch now. you can see it in action at http://renfer.name/
12:08	fckw	I want to apply some function (e.g. inc) to all the values of the elements and then return the new map.
12:08	fckw	There must be an easy way to do this, but I don't get it right now.
12:08	fckw	Using the val function returns only a seq of values - not what I want.
12:08	fckw	Sorry, I meant: Using the vals function.
12:09	Kototama	something like (map inc (vals coll)) ?
12:09	fckw	Yes, something like this.
12:09	lynaghk	Has anyone gotten tagged literals working within a REPL (i.e., not using the data_readers.clj file)?
12:09	fckw	But then returning the whole map, not only a seq of (changed) values.
12:10	lynaghk	I'm binding data-readers as instructed in the docs but my tags don't get picked up.
12:11	Kototama	look at reduce-kv I guess
12:11	jkkramer	lynaghk: are you using lein repl (reply)?
12:11	fckw	The background to my question is, that I want to html-escape all values in the params-map I get through a ring post requrest.
12:11	lynaghk	jkkramer: I'm using swank
12:11	jkkramer	lynaghk: got a paste-able snippet?
12:11	lynaghk	jkkramer: sure, give me a sec.
12:13	Kototama	(reduce-kv (fn [acc k v] (assoc acc k (inc v))) {} {:one 1 :two 2})
12:14	lynaghk	jkkramer: https://www.refheap.com/paste/5622
12:14	fckw	@Kototama: I have to try this out, thanks for your suggestion.
12:15	lynaghk	jkkramer: passing the var (e.g., #'map->A) doesn't make a difference either.
12:15	fckw	@Kototama: Thanks! I did not know about reduce-kv until now.
12:15	lynaghk	jkkramer: nor does namespacing the tag
12:15	Kototama	it's relatively new it was introduce in 1.4
12:15	hiredman	lynaghk: I have
12:16	hiredman	lynaghk: I set! data-readers
12:17	hiredman	lynaghk: https://gist.github.com/3859794
12:17	fckw	I believe it could be done even shorter somehow, but I cannot see a solution right now.
12:17	lynaghk	hiredman: that works, thanks! Shouldn't the binding form work as well, though?
12:17	hiredman	lynaghk: no idea
12:17	jkkramer	lynaghk: tagged literals can't be used that way. the binding happens after the code has been read. this will work but doesn't necessarily solve your problem: (with-bindings {#'data-readers {'A map->A}} (read-string "#A {:foo 1}"))
12:17	jkkramer	yeah, see hireman's thing
12:18	lynaghk	jkkramer: okay, that makes sense.
12:18	lynaghk	jkkramer, hireman: thanks.
12:31	fckw	Ah, here we go, there is an update-in function.
12:31	fckw	This might be handy.
12:41	fckw	Can anyone explain me why this code does not work: (def my-map {:one 1 :two 2 :three 3})
12:42	fckw	(update-in my-map (keys my-map) inc)
12:42	fckw	I get a NullPointerException.
12:42	clgv	fckw: you misunderstood update-in
12:42	hiredman	the keys you pass to update-in are expected to describe a path through a nested structure of maps
12:42	clgv	fckw: update-in is for nested maps
12:43	fckw	Oh gosh. So is there really no simple "update" function?
12:43	clgv	&(update-in {:a {:b 1} :c {:d 0}} [:a :b] inc)
12:43	lazybot	⇒ {:a {:b 2}, :c {:d 0}}
12:43	fckw	Updating all values in a map?
12:44	clgv	you can use reduce-kv like: ##(reduce-kv (fn [m, k, v] (assoc m k (inc v))) {} {:a 0 :b 2})
12:44	lazybot	⇒ {:b 3, :a 1}
12:44	fckw	As it seems I really have to unpack each value of a key-value pair and then associate the changed values with a new map.
12:44	fckw	Yes, I already was told so. Is this the standard way of doing updates to all values in a map?
12:45	fckw	Creating a new, empty map and re-associating the changed key-value-pairs?
12:45	clgv	fckw: from a structure-sharing point of view: you cant share structure if you update every value
12:45	fckw	Hm, that's true.
12:45	duck1123	no matter how you slice it, sooner or later, the code is going to loop every key and perform the operation in turn
12:45	fckw	Ok, thanks for your answer.
12:46	clgv	you can build a function from the above reduce-kv snippet for convenience
12:46	technomancy	,((comp inc {:a 0 :b 2}) :b)
12:46	clojurebot	3
12:46	technomancy	but then it's not a map anymore
12:46	dnolen	fckw: even if you were doing this in an imperative language you'd still have to loop over all the keys and mutate each entry.
12:48	fckw	But why can I do a map or apply on a list, but not something similar on a map?
12:48	fckw	Would be nice: Applying a change to each element (e.g. its value) in a map using the map function.
12:48	SegFaultAX\|work	fckw: Sounds like you want fmap.
12:49	technomancy	fckw: part of the point of map is that it's lazy
12:49	arrdem	,(let [m {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3}] (zip-map (keys m) (map inc (vals m))))
12:49	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: zip-map in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
12:49	arrdem	,(let [m {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3}] (zipmap (keys m) (map inc (vals m))))
12:49	clojurebot	{:b 3, :c 4, :a 2}
12:49	clgv	fckw: (defn update-map [m f] (reduce-kv (fn [m, k, v] (assoc m k (f v))) {} m) voila! but maybe you should add transients
12:49	duck1123	performing an op on every vaule in a map isn't as common of a need IMO
12:49	technomancy	anyway, I agree that map-keys and map-vals would be nice, but at that point it's different from clojure.core/map
12:50	fckw	I cannot find a fmap function?
12:50	dnolen	fckw: you can map over a map - but map always returns lazy seqs - so you'll have to do some of the things shown above to get back to a map.
12:52	fckw	I wrote above that the background of my question is that I have a ring POST request giving me a parameters map and I want to html-escape all values in the parameters map.
12:52	fckw	But anyway, reduce-kv seems the way to go.
12:52	clgv	fckw: yeah, I think thats the reason why it was added in 1.4 ^^
12:57	SegFaultAX\|work	fckw: Clojure has a Functor library that provides fmap.
12:57	SegFaultAX\|work	fckw: Clojure contrib, rather.
12:58	fckw	Here is my new function that escapes html:
12:58	fckw	(defn- with-html-escaped [params]
12:58	fckw	@SeqFaultAX: I'll have a look, thanks.
13:00	clgv	~contrib ;)
13:00	clojurebot	latest contrib is 947
13:00	clgv	oops
13:00	clgv	~contrib
13:00	clojurebot	Monolithic clojure.contrib has been split up in favor of smaller, actually-maintained libs. Transition notes here: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
13:00	TimMc	clojurebot: forget latest contrib \|is\| 947
13:00	clojurebot	I forgot that latest contrib is 947
13:00	fckw	There is the fmap function: http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/generic.functor-api.html
13:00	lazybot	Nooooo, that's so out of date! Please see instead http://clojure.github.com/clojure-contrib/generic.functor-api.html and try to stop linking to rich's repo.
13:01	clgv	fckw: better use the update-map I gave you above ^^
13:04	fckw	@clgv: Yes, I'll use the reduce-kv as you suggested because prefer not to rely on clojure-contrib. But for the future a fmap functor would be really nice.
13:06	SegFaultAX\|work	fckw: Functors are just things that can be mapped over. fmap is the generic map function for this mappable things. Eg fmap :: (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
13:06	zerokarmaleft	fckw: as clgv said, you might want to add transients, frequencies in core is a good example of how to do that
13:07	SegFaultAX\|work	fckw: In the case of clojure, "mappable things" applies broadly to all sequence/collection/container types.
13:10	fckw	Yes, using transient maps seems like a good idea when html-escaping parameter maps that are being sent from the client.
13:11	fckw	I'll have to read up the corresponding topics.
13:22	ppppaul	hey
13:22	ppppaul	anyone here use clutch?
13:28	pandeiro	ppppaul: yeah
13:28	ppppaul	pandeiro, have you done anything with attachments?
13:28	pandeiro	ppppaul: ha, yeah been debugging something involving attachments for almost 2 weeks
13:28	ppppaul	hmmm
13:29	pandeiro	my problem is with a particular input stream type, usually it has worked fine in the past
13:30	ppppaul	ok. i am pushing 23k attachments at 250megs into a doc (this is not an issue for me with couchdb). my issue is that i'm using node.couchapp, and it's a toy and breaks. it is keeping too much useless data in memory and i'm debugging it now. i've used clutch a bit (when it was young), and i'm wondering if i would have a lot of pain in trying to emulate couchapp with it, or is someone has already done the dirty work...
13:33	pandeiro	ppppaul: i haven't done the dirty work but tbh i'd do it with bash+curl
13:34	pandeiro	clutch can probably handle it, and would be infinitely more malleable i imagine
13:34	pandeiro	ah i meant to say bash + curl + underscore-cli (vital ingredient)
13:34	pandeiro	for slicing through the json etc
13:37	ppppaul	bash/curl... how would that handle pusing 23k docs?
13:37	ppppaul	i mean files
13:37	duck1123	pandeiro: thanks for pointing out underscore-cli
13:37	nDuff	ppaul: ...eh, that's not really a question that can be answered; depends on the specific requirements.
13:38	nDuff	pppaul: the case where it _wouldn't_ be adequate is if you needed things like session keepalive.
13:38	ppppaul	hmmm... i guess i would have some commandline thing to base64 all the files?
13:38	nDuff	ppppaul: Huh? curl can manage encoding itself.
13:38	nDuff	...anyhow, #bash -> thataway.
13:38	ppppaul	nDuff i am bash noob :)
13:39	ppppaul	wow, i was really hoping to avoid bash scripts... but if you guys say this is the way to go, then i guess i'll do it...
13:39	jsabeaudry	pppaul, clojure is over-rated, use bash
13:41	jweiss	is there a non-chunked lazy sequence? http://www.infoq.com/news/2009/12/clojure-11-rc1-transients "An interface to force single-item consumption of chunked seqs is still being designed."
13:41	ppppaul	well, i mainly need to push a dir into couchdb preserving relative paths
13:42	nDuff	jweiss: can be done using lazy-seq, yes.
13:42	duck1123	jweiss: I use this to unchunk my seqs https://github.com/duck1123/ciste/blob/master/src/ciste/routes.clj#L75
13:42	pandeiro	ppppaul: i am also bash-averse
13:43	pandeiro	but i will post my code, hold on
13:43	jweiss	nDuff: duck1123: so, does lazy-seq alone not do it then?
13:44	nDuff	jweiss: depends on what you mean by "lazy-seq alone".
13:44	nDuff	jweiss: ...I mean, if you use lazy-seq to attach a new head to a chunked lazy sequence, then only that head will be unchunked.
13:45	pandeiro	ppppaul: http://sprunge.us/LWCg?bash
13:45	jweiss	nDuff: i have a long-running fn "lrf". if I call (take 5 (map lrf (iterate inc 1))) how can i make sure lrf only gets called 5 times
13:45	jweiss	instead of 32
13:46	nDuff	jweiss: see what duck1123 gave you.
13:46	jweiss	ok thanks
13:47	jweiss	nDuff: so it would be (take 5 (lazier (map ...)) ?
13:48	duck1123	jweiss: that should do it
13:48	jweiss	duck1123: great, thank you
13:48	amalloy	jweiss: iterate isn't chunked
13:48	nDuff	pandeiro: ...so, if I were doing my #bash curmudgeon thing, I'd have some quibbles about writing status information to stdout, using $(cat ...) in place of $(<...), and not indenting after using newline continuations, but that looks pretty good.
13:48	jweiss	amalloy: map doesn't do any extra chunking?
13:49	amalloy	nothing (afaik) ever makes a sequence become chunked
13:49	amalloy	there are only chunked sequence-producers, and functions which retain chunkiness
13:49	jweiss	so i guess i would want to know if map does that :)
13:49	dnolen	jweiss: chunking is a property of the collection - range, vector etc
13:49	amalloy	it does, but you don't care
13:49	duck1123	amalloy: in my case, it was a map over a literal vector that makes it chunked
13:50	amalloy	well yep, that'll do it
13:50	jweiss	amalloy: i'm not sure why i don't care, but i'll take your word for it and try it without worrying about it and see if it happens
13:50	pandeiro	nDuff: thanks, i def _do_ need a bash mentor
13:50	amalloy	jweiss: because you're calling map on iterate
13:50	pandeiro	and #bash is scary
13:50	amalloy	if you were calling map on something else, you might care
13:51	amalloy	btw there's https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/useful/seq.clj#L178 in useful
13:51	jweiss	amalloy: well, that was just an example, i'll really just be doing something more like (repeatedly 5 lrf)
13:51	amalloy	(unchunk coll) and (lazy (foo) (bar) (baz)) are both relevant
13:52	jweiss	amalloy: that looks the same as the earlier posted function 'lazier'
13:52	amalloy	it probably is
13:53	duck1123	there are some slight differences, which seems interesting
13:53	amalloy	duck1123: the version in ciste is not as good
13:53	amalloy	because it forces realization of the first element unconditionally
13:53	duck1123	interesting. good to know
13:54	ppppaul	thanks pandeiro
13:54	amalloy	plus depending on useful seems like a better way to get a lazy-sequence operation than depending on ciste's routes lib
13:54	amalloy	(from jweiss's point of view)
13:55	duck1123	very true. Thinking on depending on useful myself actually
13:55	pandeiro	ppppaul: ignore the debug statements and other bad forms nDuff mentioned ;)
13:55	duck1123	since I never have it required, I'm sure I'm missing out in several places
13:56	amalloy	duck1123: tbh the most-used thing in useful is probably ?, my debug macro
13:57	ppppaul	pandeiro, the .couchrc is a file with 1 line of text?
13:58	ppppaul	like, it wants localhost:5984/db_name ?
13:59	pandeiro	ppppaul: http://user:pass@host:port
13:59	ppppaul	i see
14:00	pandeiro	ppppaul: you could update it to automatically iterate over entire directories and stuff...
14:00	pandeiro	but for me that ended up being more useful than the whole couchapp/nodecouchapp chain for most of what i do
14:01	Licenser	ibdknox ping :)
14:02	jweiss	amalloy: is ? sort of like tracing functions but on the form level?
14:02	amalloy	jweiss: it's just a slightly less-awful version of debug printf
14:03	amalloy	(? (foo bar)) evaluates the same as (foo bar), and also prints "(foo bar) is 10"
14:03	jweiss	amalloy: ah i see, you don't call it from the repl, you embed it in your code?
14:03	amalloy	yep
14:04	duck1123	how does it compare to clojure.tools.logging/spy (aside from the log vs. print)
14:06	amalloy	not much difference. it handles exceptions a little better, but for me the important gain is i don't have to figure out clojure.tools.logging
14:07	amalloy	i suspect it also aligns a bit better for large expressions/values, but that's just based on reading the code for spy
14:08	duck1123	I had a similar macro that I used that put the output on the same line, but I abandoned it in favor of the logging version
14:08	pandeiro	nDuff: sorry for bash question, but i can't find anything on google about why u would use $(<cat...) instead of $(cat...)
14:09	nDuff	pandeiro: the latter requires exec'ing an external tool
14:09	nDuff	pandeiro: if you run 'type cat', you'll see it's /bin/cat, not a bash built-in command.
14:09	pandeiro	ah sure ok
14:09	nDuff	oh, and it's not $(<cat file), it's $(<file)
14:10	jweiss	is there a suggested way to bind up functions with some args already fixed? eg, i have an http client but want to fix the username and password so they don't have to be specified each time. i know I can use a var and binding form, but that can get ugly with multithreaded apps. i guess i could generate a map with the functions in it. that seems awkward too.
14:10	nDuff	jweiss: sounds like you want partial?
14:10	jweiss	nDuff: yeah, partial will create the functions, but then how do i make them accessible
14:10	pandeiro	nDuff: but with non-internal stuff, $(cmd ...) would be an appropriate way to store cmd output into a variable?
14:11	nDuff	jweiss: One approach I've taken in the past is to have a top-level def of a future which retrieves the configuration on first use.
14:12	nDuff	pandeiro: Yes.
14:12	jweiss	nDuff: i would want to support multiple configurations at the same time, but not necessarily on a per-thread basis
14:13	nDuff	jweiss: Ahh; that is indeed more interesting, then.
14:13	jweiss	that's why i shy away from using a var
14:13	jweiss	i think maybe i'll just return a map like {:get <fn> :post <fn> ... {
14:13	jweiss	}
14:20	jlewis	what's the idiomatic way to check if something is callable?
14:22	amalloy	&(doc ifn?)
14:22	lazybot	⇒ "([x]); Returns true if x implements IFn. Note that many data structures (e.g. sets and maps) implement IFn"
14:22	jlewis	thanks!
14:26	Licenser	hmm if ifn? is the idiomatic way would (try () true (catch _ false)) the idiotic way?
14:33	zilti	When using lein-ring uberwar, the resources folder doesn't get included into the war file. Is that a known problem? How do I fix that?
14:39	zilti	Sometimes that stuff feels like it never gets used in production.
14:42	ulath	hi, i have a large text, and this text's parts are depends on some variables (conditions) and in the future these variables can increase and static part of the text will need to be conditional (dynamic). what is the best solution for problems like these?
14:44	pjstadig	,(time (dotimes [_ 1000000] (object-array [1])))
14:44	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 308.76889 msecs"
14:44	pjstadig	,(time (dotimes [_ 1000000] (object-array (rseq [1]))))
14:44	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 123.725152 msecs"
14:45	pjstadig	there's a riddle for you
14:45	pjstadig	to which i know the answer
14:45	technomancy	that is amazing
14:48	zilti	What does that underscore do?
14:48	scriptor	it means the variable is ignored
14:48	scriptor	well, more specifically, you don't care about the binding
14:48	dnolen	zilti: it has no real special meaning - just convention
14:49	ppppaul	pandeiro, i'm working with your file, but i can't seem to get couch-put/couch-post working
14:51	scriptor	hmm, where's the rseq class defined?
14:51	amalloy	pjstadig: that's a curious riddle
14:52	amalloy	scriptor: APersistentVector$RSeq
14:52	scriptor	yep, thanks
14:52	ppppaul	pandeiro, are you versioning the file? would you be interested in starting a repo or gist?
14:54	zilti	Is someone here working with lein-ring? Because of my problem with the inclusion of the resources directory
14:54	amalloy	oh. Vector$Seq doesn't implement Counted?!
14:55	pjstadig	correct!
14:55	pjstadig	well
14:55	pjstadig	PersistentVector$ChunkedSeq
14:55	pjstadig	,(class (seq [1]))
14:55	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentVector$ChunkedSeq
14:56	pjstadig	,(instance? clojure.lang.Counted (seq [1]))
14:56	clojurebot	false
14:56	pjstadig	,(instance? clojure.lang.Counted (rseq [1]))
14:56	clojurebot	true
14:56	devth	anyone know if there's a way to retrieve the source for an entire namespace, similar to clojure.repl/source for vars?
14:57	amalloy	hah. i didn't even look at ChunkedSeq, so it's lucky APersistentVector$Seq behaves similarly
14:57	amalloy	pjstadig: going to submit a patch to fix that silliness?
14:58	pjstadig	actually APersistentVector$Seq implements IndexedSeq which implements Counted
14:58	amalloy	oh, so it does. i didn't expect that, given that APV$RSeq implements IndexedSeq and (explicitly) Counted
14:59	amalloy	my detective skills are looking more and more like random luck
15:00	pandeiro	ppppaul: https://github.com/pandeiro/dotstar/blob/master/bash/bash_functions
15:00	pjstadig	i guess i should open a jira ticket for it
15:00	amalloy	wow, IndexedSeq is interesting. i didn't know that interface existed. and apparently neither did rich, because that index() method is never used anywhere in the clojure sources
15:01	dnolen	pjstadig: what would the fix be?
15:01	amalloy	well, i guess that's not true. someone could be using it indirectly via ArraySeq or some other implementing class
15:02	amalloy	nope. lots of definitions of index(), and no uses of it. crazy
15:03	pjstadig	dnolen: i assume making PersistentVector$ChunkedSeq implement either Counted or IndexedSeq
15:05	tomoj	amalloy: it looks like it was ported from c#?
15:05	amalloy	whaaaaa?
15:05	pjstadig	hehe
15:06	dnolen	,(counted (seq (range 32)))
15:06	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: counted in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
15:06	dnolen	,(counted? (seq (range 32)))
15:06	clojurebot	false
15:06	tomoj	amalloy: `git log` that file
15:06	dnolen	^ probably also needs fixing as well then.
15:07	pjstadig	dnolen: you think?
15:08	tomoj	oh, well, not sure. but there is an almost identical c# file in the same commit that introduced IndexedSeq.java
15:08	amalloy	tomoj: i don't see it
15:08	amalloy	ah
15:09	dnolen	,(counted? (seq {:foo 1 :bar 2}))
15:09	clojurebot	true
15:09	pjstadig	dnolen: i see this as a regression, because before chunked seqs (object-array [1]) and (object-array (rseq [1])) would have taken roughly the same amount of time
15:09	amalloy	dnolen: agreed that's a good fix, and an implementation can be stolen from me via http://dev.clojure.org/jira/secure/attachment/11447/range-reducer.patch if anyone wants to do it
15:10	pjstadig	was range also counted before chunked seqs?
15:12	amalloy	pjstadig: probably not
15:13	amalloy	since it's in clojure rather than java. unless you mean the super-old clojure.lang.Range, which is indeed Counted
15:14	Derylbat23	hello
15:14	Derylbat23	list please ?
15:14	hiredman	()
15:15	dnolen	pjstadig: I think the ticket should be general - return counted seqs if the information is available.
15:15	dnolen	pjstadig: the CLJS persistent data structures exhibit this issue as well - since we just followed Clojure JVMs lead.
15:17	TimMc	(inc hiredman)
15:17	lazybot	⇒ 14
15:18	hiredman	speaking of such things
15:19	hiredman	,(inc (Long/MAX_VALUE))
15:19	clojurebot	#<ArithmeticException java.lang.ArithmeticException: integer overflow>
15:19	hiredman	I guess that is technically correct, a long is a long integer, but :/
15:21	TimMc	As long as it doesn't say Integer overflow.
15:24	augustl	out of curiousity, why does leiningen have (defproject ...) instead of just a plain map?
15:24	pjstadig	,(unchecked-add Long/MAX_VALUE 1)
15:24	clojurebot	-9223372036854775808
15:26	amalloy	pjstadig: i think he's just objecting to the message, not the exception
15:26	pjstadig	amalloy: yeah i was thinking of something else
15:28	pjstadig	,(unchecked-add (Long. Long/MAX_VALUE) 1)
15:28	clojurebot	#<ArithmeticException java.lang.ArithmeticException: integer overflow>
15:28	pjstadig	,(doc unchecked-add)
15:28	clojurebot	"([x y]); Returns the sum of x and y, both long. Note - uses a primitive operator subject to overflow."
15:29	pjstadig	which i guess is correct if you pay attention to the fact that the docstring says long with a lower case ell
15:30	pjstadig	i would almost perfer that unchecked-add throw an exception in that case instead of giving me the (slightly different) slow path in the code
15:30	pjstadig	or have the slow path check if it's a Long and call the overflowing version
15:37	pjstadig	dnolen: sorry i already created the story, i can see how maybe there should be a more general focus on implementing Counted where appropriate
15:37	pjstadig	i was also thinking it would be better to have smaller scope
15:37	callen	does anyone here use MongoDB with Clojure?
15:37	callen	if so, is there a recommended library?
15:38	augustl	callen: I'm using monger, works fine
15:38	augustl	I built a small library on top of it though
15:38	callen	augustl: that's what I'd been looking at, thanks. Small library?
15:39	augustl	yeah, it adds stuff like (make-save "collection-name" validator processor)
15:39	augustl	a validator function can add validation errors and stop the save, a processor is pre-insert processing of the data
15:40	callen	that makes sense.
15:40	augustl	that's essentially it. That allows me to say (def save (make-save ...)) in user.clj, and later call (user/save ...), so I don't have to hardcode the collection everywhere
15:40	augustl	callen: also made my library take a db object as the first argument to all operations, to make it functional
15:40	augustl	rather than a hidden singleton somewhere storing the connection etc.
15:40	callen	I found the singleton in monger kinda problematic.
15:41	callen	I tolerated a stateful connection object to MongoDB in Python, but in Clojure it raises my hackles a bit to have a stateful object floating through space like that.
15:41	augustl	callen: https://github.com/oiiku/oiiku-mongodb-clojure
15:41	augustl	just open sourced it, why not ;)
15:41	callen	augustl: very cool, thank you.
15:42	augustl	it's not documented at all though, will make it release quality later, just thought you'd might like to take a look at it
15:42	callen	augustl: I'm still less-than-proficient in Clojure, so it'll at least give me something to learn from. TYVM
15:42	augustl	np :)
15:43	augustl	the validation system should probably be stand-alone too, it's not really mongodb specific
15:43	callen	augustl: part of the reason I'm trying to move to clojure, is that I wanted to integrate and compose input/data validation across the frontend and the persistence layer
15:43	callen	augustl: doing so in Python where every library is a fiefdom is a sisyphean task.
15:44	augustl	callen: using clojurescript for validation on the client side or something, you mean?
15:45	dnolen	callen: heh, i like that "where every library is fiefdom" ...
15:46	callen	dnolen: ahhh thank you. You're the one that did all that work on pred dispatch and logic right?
15:47	dnolen	callen: pred dispatch hasn't gotten very far, but yes I work on core.logic/match
15:47	callen	if so, awesome. Learned a lot from reading your posts about the subject.
15:52	callen	does anyone else here use Lobos for migrations? it's not totally clear to me what refer-to does and I'm having a hard time finding it in the code.
15:53	augustl	callen: updated the README, at least it doesn't contain non-existing functions in it now ;)
15:56	callen	in fact, I can only find the refer-to function in the tests. how bizarre.
15:57	callen	lobos...may not be production ready.
15:58	callen	augustl: very cool, haha. Thank you.
16:02	TimMc	callen: There's also Ragtime and... drift?
16:02	callen	TimMc: what do you use?
16:02	TimMc	I don't. :-/
16:03	callen	TimMc: do you do anything with clojure that needs persistence?
16:03	TimMc	Last time I tried, I gave up. The things I found were not well documented in terms of their pragmatics, so I decided not to have migrations.
16:03	TimMc	It was for a personal project, so I had the luxury of giving up.
16:04	callen	TimMc: what I'm eventually going to build is semi-serious, so there are tradeoffs to consider here. A half-baked migrations library might be worse than writing my own scripts.
16:07	technomancy	callen: I definitely support rolling your own; clojars has a simple implementation in two defns
16:08	technomancy	https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/blob/master/src/clojars/db/migrate.clj
16:08	technomancy	much easier than trying to comprehend lobos
16:08	callen	technomancy: I take it you've tried to go down the lobos rabbit-hole too?
16:09	callen	in my case, it wouldn't even be in clojure, I'd just do it with sql scripts.
16:09	technomancy	callen: yeah, I think it's too ambitious among other things
16:09	callen	I agree. The refer-to functionality is bizarre
16:09	technomancy	there is no way you can abstract away the differences between schema languages of various DBs
16:10	callen	technomancy: thank you for the pragmatic note.
16:11	TimMc	That's why I tried using ragtime, since it isn't even specific to databases.
16:12	thorbjornDX	hi, I have a hundred or so lines of defmulti/multimethod statements that basically just does (defmulti somefunc :mykey) (defmethod somefunc :key1 [m] key1-ns/somefunc) ... Is there a macro that I can use to clean this up?
16:12	technomancy	ragtime is pretty good, but it's more complicated because it supports down migrations. in my experience down migrations don't work in practice.
16:12	callen	I don't like the idea of an unsupervised "down" anyway.
16:13	callen	I love automation, but it's unrealistic.
16:13	technomancy	I don't have an answer for migrations on long-lived branches other than "make sure they don't interfere with each other" unfortunately
16:15	callen	technomancy: it's case-specific, best to embrace that fact and realize that you have to know what you're doing.
16:16	technomancy	yeah, I guess beyond a certain complexity you just have to pick the lesser of N evils, which is highly specific to the codebase in question.
16:16	pandeiro	is it possible for cljs (clj) macros to reference cljs files?
16:17	dnolen	pandeiro: not as far as I know.
16:17	S11001001	pandeiro: functions, or macros, in said files?
16:17	neotyk	Hello Everyone!
16:18	neotyk	when extending types in cljs, what is a difference between 'string' and 'js/String'?
16:18	dnolen	neotyk: if js/String appears in core.cljs probably an oversight, string is preferred
16:18	pandeiro	like if i wanted to write a specialized test macro that refers to a state atom in my client cljs files?
16:19	neotyk	dnolen: thanks
16:19	dnolen	pandeiro: then emit the fully qualified symbol to that atom.
16:32	ppppaul	pandeiro, hey. i realize that i don't know what couch-put or couch-post is supposed to do. would you be able to include some documentation or tests?
16:32	antares_	Second clojure-doc.org guide is good enough to recommend to people: http://clojure-doc.org/articles/language/polymorphism.html. If someone wants to help expand it, just submit a pull request :)
16:41	augustl	what's a good way to communicate success or error when both cases has data associated with it? For example, putting something in a database and returning the data, vs returning errors if it's wasn't put in the database for some reason
16:41	technomancy	augustl: do you know about ex-info?
16:42	augustl	technomancy: hmm no
16:43	technomancy	it's the best
16:44	augustl	it's not in the cheatsheet, how could I possibly know about it? :)
16:45	augustl	looks good, except it feels kind of wrong to use exceptions for control flow..
16:45	augustl	because I assume you mean raising an ex-info created exception instead of returning in the event of an error?
16:46	Apage43	also slingshot builds on that with some more advanced stuff you can catch on predicates or match on the associated data. For example, it was useful for me the other day, to only catch 404's from clj-http
16:46	augustl	the error in question is common since it's caused by erronous user input (form validation etc)
16:47	Apage43	augustl: that seems like a nice place to use it, because the error can be caught at where the response page would be rendered, and use the attached info the highlight the bad field, or something like that, and you don't have to bother with making it possible to thread the error case all the way back
16:49	augustl	aren't exceptions exceptionally bad for performance though?
16:49	augustl	pun intended
16:49	Apage43	that's really the point of exceptions, getting the relevant info about an error to the place in the code where they're going to be handled
16:49	technomancy	augustl: I really hope your users aren't submitting bad form values at a rate fast enough for that to be a problem.
16:49	technomancy	if so you have more serious problems to deal with than exceptions =)
16:50	gtrak	is there a better way to do this? (read-string (str "::an-ns/" "failed")) -> :fully-qualified-ns/failed ?
16:51	augustl	I'm currently returning {:success true :data 123} or {:success false :errors "validation errors here.."}, I like that better than exceptions
16:51	augustl	you can multimethod over it ec.
16:51	augustl	etc*
16:51	loliveira	how do I access a recrd
16:51	augustl	loliveira: like a map
16:51	augustl	loliveira: (some-record :field)
16:51	technomancy	augustl: the problem there is that you could omit the check for the success field and proceed on faulty data. if you're convinced you will never make that mistake then it could work.
16:52	loliveira	how do I access a record method that was added using extend-type in other namespace?
16:52	augustl	true, an exception, if uncaught, makes it clear what went wrong
16:53	loliveira	more info: http://pastebin.com/RxJbj274
16:54	loliveira	I am getting the folioing error: CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: get-pos in this context
16:55	gtrak	this is slightly better: (keyword (namespace `an-na/dummy-symbol) "failed")
16:59	ppppaul	pandeiro, how do you use your functions? they are sooooooo buggy. i don't think couch-upload works with the latest version of underscore-cli...
17:01	Apage43	I've tended to do that sort of stuff with clojure
17:09	pandeiro	ppppaul: i never said i could write _software_
17:09	augustl	I have a map {:foo "bar" :baz 123}, how do I call a function that expects (myfunc "some other arg" :foo "bar" :baz 123) with that map?
17:09	ppppaul	pandeiro, lol
17:10	pandeiro	couch-put foo && couch-post foo '{"_id":"bar"}' && couch-upload foo/bar baz.png "image/png" && couch-get foo/bar \| underscore pretty
17:10	pandeiro	the baz.png is on you :)
17:10	ppppaul	your couch-upload is buggy. i fixed it... but i also refactored your code a bit
17:11	augustl	I'm defining the function as (defn myfunc [some-arg & {:keys [foo baz]}] ...)
17:11	ppppaul	https://gist.github.com/3861438
17:11	ppppaul	pandeiro,
17:12	ppppaul	i got that working to upload a file...
17:12	ppppaul	so, now time to upload the other 28k files i have
17:12	augustl	(apply (partial myfunc "test") {:foo "bar" :baz 123}) does not work at least :)
17:13	Apage43	using couchdb as a file store, eh?
17:14	augustl	perhaps I should rewrite my function to just take a map as that's my only use case..
17:15	aperiodic	augustl: you need to use flatten, it's the worst
17:15	aperiodic	i recommend taking a map instead
17:15	augustl	aperiodic: doh, I guess that basically turns {:foo 123} into [:foo 123]?
17:16	aperiodic	augustl: exactly
17:16	Frozenlo`	OMG. Damnit I'm dumb. I just realized I can use [{:keys [...]}] instead of [&[{:keys [...]}]]
17:16	augustl	applying with [:foo 123] obviously works.. How silly
17:16	augustl	aperiodic: what's the easiest way to take a single map but still use destructuring? A let block in the body of the fn?
17:16	pandeiro	ppppaul: sorry i'm totally confused by how you renamed stuff
17:17	aperiodic	,((fn [{:keys [foo]}] foo) {:foo "bar"})
17:17	clojurebot	"bar"
17:17	pandeiro	but i promise you if you take the versions from https://github.com/pandeiro/dotstar/blob/master/bash/bash_functions and run the line i wrote above, it works fine
17:18	augustl	aperiodic: ah of course
17:19	ppppaul	works fine on what system? what version of bash? what version of underscore-cli ? lol pandeiro
17:20	ppppaul	i'm on ubuntu, you may be on a mac (tends to be a much older version of bash)
17:20	thorbjornDX	what about 64-bit?
17:22	pandeiro	ppppaul: does ubuntu even use bash? i thought it was dash or something
17:22	pipeline	/bin/sh is probably ash/dash.
17:22	pipeline	but bash is installed at /bin/bash usually
17:46	horofox	what function does the same of cons but take the parameters in the opposite way
17:46	horofox	or append to the end
17:46	horofox	of the list
17:46	horofox	?
17:46	dnolen	conj
17:47	dnolen	horofox: sorry I thought you meant arg order
17:47	casion	conj appends to the beginning of a list I thought?
17:47	dnolen	horofox: you can't append to end of list w/ traversing, Clojure doesn't really provide a operation that does that for lists.
17:47	dnolen	horofox: use vectors
17:47	dnolen	w/o traversing I meant
17:48	frio	does clojure have a reverse? (fn rcons [element list] (reverse (con element (reverse list)))) ?
17:48	frio	(gross solution :))
17:48	dnolen	frio: yes, reverse
17:48	casion	you could use concat and (list) the asg
17:48	casion	but that's a bit silly
17:49	horofox	dnolen: i have (cons 3 [1 2])
17:49	horofox	dnolen: but it turns [3 1 2]
17:49	dnolen	,(conj [1 2] 3)
17:49	casion	,(concat '(1 2) '(3))
17:49	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
17:49	horofox	i want [1 2 3]
17:49	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
17:49	dnolen	horofox: ^
17:49	lynaghk	dnolen: I got partial map matching added to core.logic the other day---Clojure protocols are so nice! Do you have any pref on a name for the type (PartialMap, PMap, SubMap)? Also, do you want me to inline everything in logic.clj or would you prefer the patch being a whole separate namespace that just calls extend-type a lot?
17:49	dnolen	,(conj [1 2] 3)
17:49	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
17:50	dnolen	lynaghk: protocols rock, they are truly mind blowingly awesome - it's the kind of extensibility you want all of the time :)
17:50	dnolen	and perf to boot
17:51	lynaghk	dnolen: yeah, though I was pretty confused for a hot minute as to what was getting unified with what. doesn't help that "u" and "v" are only a few px apart =P
17:51	dnolen	lynaghk: I'm not surea about the name, the actual name of the type actually concerns me less than a sensible ctor fn
17:51	lynaghk	dnolen: yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. Within my lib I was thinking about using tagged literals, though that might be too magical for inclusion in core.logic.
17:51	dnolen	lynaghk: so a better name for the underlying type matter less than - partial-map or sub map or something like that
17:52	horofox	YAY THANKS
17:52	horofox	just did my recursive fib implementation
17:52	horofox	it looks horrible
17:52	lynaghk	dnolen: well that and the semantics of whether partial map should apply to any map-like values it may have.
17:53	TimMc	horofox: I hope it isn't as horrible as this factorial implementation: https://gist.github.com/3036120
17:53	horofox	wtf
17:53	frio	HNNNNGH TimMc
17:53	frio	I like it!
17:54	dnolen	lynaghk: I think it should unify with anything that implements IPersistentMap
17:54	horofox	https://gist.github.com/3861673
17:54	horofox	hahahaha
17:54	lynaghk	dnolen: yeah. But should the unification of the children be partial maps or complete maps? I.e., should the constructor walk the provided map and turn all map-like things into partial maps, or just the toplevel?
17:55	dnolen	lynaghk: just top level.
17:56	lynaghk	dnolen: okay. You want everything in the logic.clj or would a new file+namespace be okay?
17:56	dnolen	lynaghk: lynaghk new namespace is ok, actually preferred since there's going to be some churn soon.
17:57	dnolen	lynaghk: but I'd like the partial map ctor fn to be in the core namespace of course.
17:57	lynaghk	dnolen: okay, sounds good to me. I'll get you a patch by the end of the week.
17:57	dnolen	lynaghk: awesome!
17:57	TimMc	horofox: How about (+ actual-n next-n) instead of (reduce + [actual-n next-n])?
18:01	horofox	TimMc: good
18:01	horofox	TimMc: I'm getting the hang of things... hehe, thanks!
18:04	TimMc	horofox: Some suggestions: https://gist.github.com/3861689
18:04	horofox	i will start doing a camping here in #clojure
18:04	horofox	TimMc: cool thanks
18:04	horofox	TimMc: I will do a better implementation now
18:14	TimMc	horofox: Also, you seem to be reversing actual-n and next-n in the recursive call, which introduces a bug that appears if you start the list at 2,3 instead of 0,1.
18:15	horofox	TimMc: oh, it should start in 0 1 always
18:16	horofox	TimMc: I'm going to try by passing only 2 parameters: the list and the amount of numbers to be generated
18:16	TimMc	Hmm, might be wrong about the exact nature of the bug, but you should be able to start from any point along the Fibonacci sequence.
18:19	hyPiRion	Hmm, is there any specific reason merge returns nil instead of {} when given zero arguments?
18:19	gtrak	what do you guys use to test agents?
18:20	hyPiRion	It sounds kind of counterintuitive.
18:21	gtrak	hyPiRion: maybe if you're doing (apply merge ..) it makes sense
18:21	gtrak	nil's always used for seqs instead of an empty-seq too
18:22	hyPiRion	gtrak: hmm, how come?
18:22	gtrak	,[(merge nil) (merge nil nil)]
18:22	clojurebot	[nil nil]
18:22	gtrak	,[(merge {} nil) (merge nil {})]
18:22	clojurebot	[{} {}]
18:22	hyPiRion	ah.
18:22	gtrak	there's a semantic distinction there
18:23	hyPiRion	,(doc merge)
18:23	clojurebot	"([& maps]); Returns a map that consists of the rest of the maps conj-ed onto the first. If a key occurs in more than one map, the mapping from the latter (left-to-right) will be the mapping in the result."
18:24	hyPiRion	I was more among the lines of why ##(merge) returns nil though.
18:24	lazybot	⇒ nil
18:24	hyPiRion	s/I/It
18:24	gtrak	what else would it return?
18:24	hyPiRion	{}
18:24	gtrak	how about ##(apply merge [])
18:24	lazybot	⇒ nil
18:25	dnolen	hyPiRion: are you running into a case where it matters?
18:25	hyPiRion	dnolen: If you want to use the new reducers library and use merge as a combine function, you have to modify it because of the zero-argument result.
18:26	gtrak	why?
18:26	clojurebot	why is the ram gone is <reply>I blame UTF-16. http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/but-why-is-the-ram-gone
18:27	hiredman	,(doc fnil)
18:27	clojurebot	"([f x] [f x y] [f x y z]); Takes a function f, and returns a function that calls f, replacing a nil first argument to f with the supplied value x. Higher arity versions can replace arguments in the second and third positions (y, z). Note that the function f can take any number of arguments, not just the one(s) being nil-patched."
18:30	hyPiRion	Well, my real question is whether (merge) returns its identity element.
18:31	amalloy	hyPiRion: sure it does. (= (merge nil x) (merge x nil) x) for all x
18:32	hyPiRion	Yeah, nevermind. ##(assoc nil 1 2) does return a map.
18:32	lazybot	⇒ {1 2}
18:32	wingy	wished datomic was schemaless
18:32	wingy	i cant know all of the attributes in advance
18:34	hyPiRion	I didn't knew (assoc nil x y) => {x y}. Is that something one should know?
18:35	TimMc	Pick a type, any type!
18:38	augustl	in a leiningen plugin, how do I load the project itself so that I can resolve it's dependencies etc?
18:40	technomancy	augustl: try leiningen.core.eval/eval-in-project
18:40	TimMc	augustl: Lein 1.x or 2.x? And do you mean the project.clj data?
18:41	augustl	TimMc: lein 2
18:42	augustl	TimMc: and I mean loading the actual library so I can access it
18:42	augustl	technomancy: hmm, I just did, and (resolve 'some-dep) returns nil
18:42	TimMc	augustl: Remember to require.
18:42	augustl	ah
18:42	horofox	hey TimMc
18:43	horofox	i did a beautiful implementation
18:43	horofox	WTF
18:43	TimMc	Share!
18:43	augustl	TimMc: hmm, require fails too
18:44	augustl	here's the full plugin https://www.refheap.com/paste/5639, and oiiku-closure-builder-client is a dependency of the project where the plugin is added
18:45	devth	so RH talks about the importance of values as facts but I just realized I've never seen anything on querying an atom/ref for its value at a given time. is that possible?
18:45	horofox	TimMc: https://gist.github.com/3861912
18:46	augustl	am I doing it the right way?
18:46	TimMc	augustl: I don't see anything terribly wrong, so here's some code I wrote that does work: https://github.com/timmc/lein-otf/blob/master/src/lein_otf/loader.clj#L33
18:46	rlb	devth: @some-atom
18:46	antares_	devth: that's what datomic can do, not Clojure. Clojure ref types only have "current" value (which you mutate by referencing a different immutable value)
18:47	TimMc	augustl: Wait, that's a single-segment namespace, which could be a problem. And you're trying to resolve the ns itself, and not a member.
18:47	rlb	devth: ohh -- you meant varying time...
18:47	hiredman	devth: when you get its value, you are getting its at a point in time (now) and because it is a value if you want to hang on to it for later comparison you can
18:47	augustl	TimMc: hmm, is that a problem? Many of my libs use lib-name instead of lib-name.core
18:47	devth	rlb: yeah
18:47	augustl	TimMc: works when running the code normally at lesat :)
18:48	devth	i thought clojure's persistent data structures would allow you to get past values
18:49	hiredman	devth: references provide identities over a series of values
18:49	augustl	devth: you need to do state manually, it's not a data structure revision tracking system :)
18:49	horofox	is there any way to pass a function by parameter(optional) in a function
18:49	mikerose357	anyone ever used clojure for android applications?
18:49	hiredman	if you want to compare the value of an identity now to the value of the identity 5 minutes ago, you have to have the value from 5 minutes ago
18:50	devth	augustl: that's reasonable but then my atom is just a "place" for place-oriented-programming
18:50	horofox	?
18:50	devth	hiredman: i see
18:50	augustl	technomancy: can you see something glaringly wrong with https://www.refheap.com/paste/5639? Getting "Could not locate oiiku_closure_builder_client__init.class or oiiku_closure_builder_client.clj on classpath:"
18:50	augustl	devth: not sure what you mean
18:51	technomancy	augustl: eval-in-project is a function, not a macro
18:51	technomancy	you need to quote the code you want evaluated inside the project. have you read the plugin guide?
18:51	TimMc	horofox: You can use multi-arity functions.
18:51	hiredman	devth: have you seen http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Are-We-There-Yet-Rich-Hickey ?
18:51	devth	in RH's talk of Value of Values he says something like "if you pass me the primary key for a record in a database, what have you conveyed? NOTHING, because the record that ID points to could be completely mutated between the time you sent it and when i read it"
18:51	devth	so how is sending an Atom any better than sending a primary key?
18:52	augustl	technomancy: I have, but thanks :)
18:52	devth	hiredman: i haven't seen that, no
18:52	augustl	devth: indeed, an atom is very much now
18:52	devth	maybe the point is: don't send atoms, send the value at some point in time.
18:52	horofox	TimMc: will do some research about it, thanks!
18:52	devth	send the Fact instead of the Container
18:53	augustl	devth: you very rarely pass atoms around, I think, it's typically a singleton somewhere (def ...)
18:53	technomancy	augustl: eval-in-project is more like eval. you have to build up a self-contained form to send to the project.
18:53	TimMc	horofox: Looking better. What happens if you ask for only n = 1?
18:54	horofox	TimMc: I get an error :\|
18:54	TimMc	augustl: Or they are kept in a local scope.
18:55	horofox	TimMc: I can do a if condition and deal with this 1 or 0 behavior
18:55	horofox	TimMc: inside fib function
18:55	TimMc	Yep.
18:55	horofox	TimMc: I'm actually trying to solve proj euler problem where it's different
18:56	augustl	technomancy: makes sense, thanks
18:56	horofox	TimMc: i need the sum of all even numbers of the fib sequence where the last fib number is 4 million
18:56	horofox	TimMc: but got hooked into how I can implement fib
18:59	horofox	(take-last 1 [0 1])
18:59	horofox	yields (1)
18:59	horofox	how do i take this item out of ()?
18:59	horofox	so it becomes 1
18:59	horofox	instead of (1)?
19:00	TimMc	You'd call last instead of take-last.
19:00	horofox	TimMc: oh yea... i feel so dumb hehe
19:01	TimMc	If you didn't have that, you could call first on the '(1).
19:02	TimMc	If I were solving that Euler problem, I would probably write a Fibonacci lazy sequence and process it with take-while, filter, and reduce.
19:03	augustl	this updated lein plugin https://www.refheap.com/paste/5642 causes "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: leiningen.oiiku-closure-builder" O_o
19:03	augustl	any ideas..?
19:03	TimMc	Sorry, that was kind of spoiler-y. :-/
19:05	TimMc	augustl: Probably has something to do with do-build not being available inside the project.
19:05	technomancy	TimMc is right; you need to build up a self-contained form that will evaluate inside the project
19:05	augustl	ah
19:06	horofox	TimMc: thanks man! I did the problem! I wouldn't do it if it weren't for you
19:07	horofox	TimMc: final solution: https://gist.github.com/3862014
19:08	TimMc	horofox: OK, now try making a version that produces and consumes a lazy-seq of Fibonacci numbers.
19:09	kirindave_	Ugh. Clojure, not a leading source of pretty fibbonaci impls.
19:09	kirindave_	Not without lazy seq, at least.
19:10	kirindave_	Guess my next blog post has gotta be, "The Most Epically Beautiful Fibbonacci"
19:12	amalloy	kirindave_: and you'll just steal the one from rosettacode, right?
19:15	augustl	so should I update the project for eval-in-project and add the leiningen plugin itself as a dependency in order to get it on the classpath?
19:15	TimMc	horofox: Here's a version that does what I describe, which you may wish to inspect: https://gist.github.com/3862052
19:16	augustl	adding it as a dependency sounds like a bad idea.. Just adding it to the classpath somehow would be nice
19:16	technomancy	augustl: not for a 3-line function; just send it as a form
19:16	kirindave_	amalloy: Haha, I can do it from memory
19:16	augustl	technomancy: it's more than 3 lines though :)
19:17	kirindave_	amalloy: It's like fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) -- DONE AND TAKE THAT
19:17	horofox	TimMc: very cool this take-while function
19:18	horofox	i have no idea what lazyseq means lol
19:18	kirindave_	amalloy: But I don't think any rosetta codes were harmed in the making of my fizzbuzz one. Umm… maybe the C one started there?
19:18	TimMc	horofox: It's a good one to know.
19:18	kirindave_	amalloy: I think nearly every C programmer will write it the wrong way in the same way.
19:18	horofox	in my country people don't even teach lisp :-(
19:18	augustl	anyone have an example of a leiningen plugin that adds its own utility functions to the project and uses eval-in-project to call them?
19:19	AtKaaZ	hi, how can I do something like this? ##(for [x (range 10) :let [y 1/x] ] y)
19:19	AtKaaZ	,(for [x (range 10) :let [y 1/x] ] y)
19:19	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.NumberFormatException: Invalid number: 1/x>
19:20	thorbjornDX	AtKaaZ: :let [y (/ 1 x)]
19:20	TimMc	AtKaaZ: 1/x is infix notation, which is not how Lisps work.
19:20	AtKaaZ	oh right, so obvious, thank you
19:20	AtKaaZ	,(for [x (range 10) :let [y (/ 1 x)] ] y)
19:21	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.ArithmeticException: Divide by zero>
19:21	amalloy	kirindave_: (map first (iterate (fn [[a b]] [b (+ a b)]) [0 1])) in clojure, though. the haskell/scala version translates very poorly to clojure
19:21	thorbjornDX	AtKaaZ: it's somewhat weird in this case because clojure supports ratio literals
19:21	augustl	only thing I can think of is grepping out the actual plugin entry in :plugins to get the correct version, and add that as a dependency to the project I eval-in-project
19:22	AtKaaZ	thorbjornDX, do you mean 1/2 works but not when 2 is a variable ?
19:22	kirindave_	amalloy: Did you enjoy my egregious fizzbuzz post?
19:22	AtKaaZ	,(for [x (range 1 10) :let [y (/ 1 x)] ] y)
19:22	kirindave_	amalloy: I'm still suffering fallout from it.
19:22	clojurebot	(1 1/2 1/3 1/4 1/5 ...)
19:22	amalloy	i don't think i've read it
19:23	AtKaaZ	thorbjornDX, would it work inside a macro maybe?
19:23	augustl	seems lein-midje does this, except it hardcodes the dependency
19:23	horofox	TimMc: isn't this fib implementation slow? Like... (take 5 (fib 1 1))
19:23	horofox	calls fib 5 times?
19:23	augustl	s/dependency/dependency version/
19:24	kirindave_	amalloy: Ha.
19:24	TimMc	horofox: take doesn't call the second argument, it accepts the result of evaluating it.
19:25	thorbjornDX	AtKaaZ: yes, but I don't think that's a smart idea.
19:25	TimMc	AtKaaZ: No, because the reader is what's complaining.
19:25	kirindave_	horofox: That is the sort of stuff we trust the JIT to inline. :)
19:25	AtKaaZ	yeah I see it's not working
19:25	horofox	kirindave_: oh
19:26	AtKaaZ	but still, that (/ 1 x) is quite enough
19:26	TimMc	AtKaaZ: Just be aware that (/ 1 x) gives you a Clojure Ratio, which can be slow to do math with.
19:26	kirindave_	horofox: Seriously though. No one has any problem writing in Java: for(X x : xs) { x.thingABob() }
19:27	kirindave_	horofox: It's the price of admission. :)
19:27	horofox	kirindave_: i see
19:27	AtKaaZ	timmc, which one do you think would be slower (I know it's unrelated to what you said): 1/2 or (/ 1 2) where 1 and 2 could be any number
19:28	TimMc	"Slower"? To do what with?
19:28	AtKaaZ	like if I wanted to generate numbers like I did in the above for
19:29	AtKaaZ	I'm only trying to realize if 1/x (if it worked) would've been faster than (/ 1 x)
19:29	AtKaaZ	hmm, doesn't seem so
19:30	AtKaaZ	,(prn 1/1 (/ 1 1))
19:30	clojurebot	1 1
19:31	AtKaaZ	timmc, I'm merely experimenting, in my attempts to learn clojure, but it's good to know that math-ing with ratios is slower
19:36	TimMc	AtKaaZ: Use (/ 1.0 x).
19:37	TimMc	You can't programmatically generate forms like 1/2 without using the Clojure reader, so don't.
19:37	AtKaaZ	but I wanted to keep them rational?
19:37	TimMc	(and you would still end up with a Ratio)
19:37	TimMc	Oh, then use (/ 1 x).
19:38	AtKaaZ	but it's still good to know how to make them Double
19:38	AtKaaZ	thanks;)
19:42	AtKaaZ	,(-> (for [x (range 1 11) :let [y (/ 1.0 x)] ] y) first class)
19:42	clojurebot	java.lang.Double
19:42	AtKaaZ	i like this ->
19:43	AtKaaZ	or this:
19:43	AtKaaZ	,(->> (for [x (range 1 11) :let [y (/ 1 x)] ] y) (map class) )
19:43	clojurebot	(java.lang.Long clojure.lang.Ratio clojure.lang.Ratio clojure.lang.Ratio clojure.lang.Ratio ...)
19:43	AtKaaZ	it's freaking amazing
19:56	Roxxi	If you have a transient set, how can you treat it as a seq?
19:56	technomancy	IIRC transients are only for putting things in
19:57	augustl	Roxxi: you have to make it persistent
19:57	Roxxi	Right, but I'm looping over it, haha.
19:57	augustl	if by seq you mean persistent seq ;)
19:57	Roxxi	technomancy: If transients are only for putting things in, why is there disj! :)
19:59	amalloy	Roxxi: you can't treat a transient as a seq, because it can change at any time, invalidating the seq wrapped around it
20:00	amalloy	ie, seqs require something persistent to work with
20:01	technomancy	erhm... not that's not quite right
20:01	technomancy	you can seq an array
20:01	Roxxi	amalloy: Hmm, so it's ok to call persistent! on things, but continue using the operand to persistant as a transient later?
20:02	amalloy	technomancy: yes, and you get out a broken seq
20:02	technomancy	that is to say you can't treat a transient as a seq, but you could in theory wrap a seq around it
20:02	technomancy	amalloy: fsvo of broken. the seq is still immutable, it just doesn't reflect the contents of what it wraps forever.
20:02	technomancy	by the same logic line-seq is broken.
20:02	AtKaaZ	now that's clearler thanks
20:03	amalloy	&(let [a (into-array [1 2 3]), s (seq a)] (aset a 1 5) s) ;; technomancy, is this really what you mean?
20:03	lazybot	⇒ (1 5 3)
20:04	technomancy	amalloy: sure?
20:04	amalloy	that seq is only immutable in the sense that once you realize an element it is fixed; but realizing it depends on mutable state
20:04	technomancy	of course.
20:05	technomancy	that's what seqs are; a snapshot of a traversal of a thing.
20:05	amalloy	but it's not a snapshot of a traversal: the seq can represent a state that the array was never in
20:06	technomancy	that's why I said a snapshot of a traversal, not a snapshot of a state
20:07	technomancy	if you have code that needs it to be otherwise, it's not the seq that's broken, it's the other code.
20:07	AtKaaZ	oh wait so you can still get the seq modified if you modify the original, ah that's not what I understood the first time then
20:10	AtKaaZ	,(class (seq (into-array [1 2 3])))
20:10	clojurebot	clojure.lang.ArraySeq
20:14	AtKaaZ	how can I find all functions dealing with arrays? such as aset
20:15	aperiodic	AtKaaZ: http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
20:15	aperiodic	array stuff is in java interop at the bottom-right
20:15	AtKaaZ	yeah thanks a lot! great stuff
21:04	thmzlt	so is it a bad practice to define tests within source file using (with-test ...)?
21:31	xeqi	thmzlt: I haven't seen it done anywhere
21:31	thmzlt	xeqi: that's why I asked
21:31	xeqi	or setting load-tests to false, so I imagine doing that would run the tests for anyone using it (if its a library)
21:37	ynniv	is there no way to inherit defrecord fields?
21:37	ynniv	and if not, can I at least specify them with a variable instead of a form?
21:39	tomoj	no
21:39	tomoj	you could use a macro
22:01	ynniv	i guess that works
22:07	amalloy	it's a bit cruel of rich to tell us inheritance is so evil he can't include it in the language, but keep using it all over clojure.lang: it's occasionally a useful tool for avoiding duplication that's really hard to fake
22:09	ynniv	it would be nice to have inheritance in defrecord
22:09	AtKaaZ	what do you mean by "but keep using it all over clojure.lang" in the java code ?
22:09	ynniv	I'd really be okay if I didn't have to write my own macro to fake it
22:10	brehaut	yes the javacode
22:10	ynniv	it seems odd that you can't pass a list of fields to defrecord
22:10	AtKaaZ	you can't?
22:11	ynniv	it appears that the fields are taken as a form
22:12	ynniv	i wrote this to expand the variable before defrecord is expanded: https://gist.github.com/3862734
22:14	AtKaaZ	hmm there is no [org.clojure/clojure "1.5.0"] in project.clj with leiningen... only 1.4.0
22:15	tomoj	ynniv: why do you want inheritance?
22:15	ynniv	i have two record types that have a long list of fields that aren't exactly the same
22:15	ynniv	and I'm trying to de-duplicate
22:15	AtKaaZ	I'd probably want the same thing
22:16	tomoj	but why do you have two record types with a long list of almost identical fields?
22:16	amalloy	ynniv: you probably just want plain old hashmaps
22:16	tomoj	er, you know what I mean
22:16	ynniv	to store data?
22:16	ynniv	i mean, philosophically, there are are things that need to be stored which are very similar but not the same
22:17	ynniv	do you think I should use pairs of records, one which is the shared fields, and one which is the remaining fields for that record?
22:18	ynniv	i could use maps, but I would like better type checking
22:18	ynniv	as in, i didn't type the wrong field name
22:18	ynniv	records give me compile time sanity checking
22:18	brehaut	records dont give you type checking
22:19	ynniv	they create multimethods that won't exist if I type them wrong
22:19	ynniv	which is a step up from keywords
22:19	thmzlt	brehaut: hey give you type-based polymorphism
22:19	thmzlt	*they
22:19	ynniv	they also do that
22:19	brehaut	thmzlt: thats wildly different than type checking
22:20	tomoj	also, (assoc a-record :a-typo foo) will still succeed
22:20	thmzlt	brehaut: agreed, but I think that's what ynniv meant
22:22	ynniv	does defrecord not provide field accessors?
22:22	ynniv	i guess i'm carrying some common lisp baggage
22:23	brehaut	ynniv: you just use keywords
22:23	brehaut	though there are field accessor methods thats not idiomatic
22:23	ynniv	hrm, not as helpful
22:23	brehaut	(and potentially slower)
22:23	thmzlt	ynniv: but defrecord doesn't work as function
22:23	ynniv	thmzlt: not sure what you mean
22:23	thmzlt	ynniv: (a-record :field) doesn't work
22:24	brehaut	thmzlt: (:field a-record)
22:24	ynniv	but (:field a-record) still does, correct?
22:24	thmzlt	ynniv: correct
22:25	ynniv	i suppose that I need to create vars for my field names to prevent typos?
22:25	brehaut	that would not be especially idiomatic code
22:25	brehaut	but i guess it would work
22:26	ynniv	well, there's nothing to prevent someone else from calling my code with a keyword
22:26	ynniv	but this would limit some of the madness
22:26	brehaut	yup
22:26	ynniv	or I could also generate accessors
22:26	hiredman	ynniv: you should also wear body armor all the time
22:26	brehaut	ideally though you create functions for manipulating your records, so that the implementation doesnt bleed out
22:27	hiredman	ynniv: you never know
22:27	ynniv	hiredman: sometimes a good idea!
22:27	brehaut	and look to a future where typed clojure is reasonable to deploy
22:30	ynniv	brehaut: i thought that defrecord generated field accessor/modifiers (like CLOS), which is how I ended up here
22:31	brehaut	ynniv: it does do that, but you generally dont want to use it
22:32	brehaut	keywords use an inline cache at the callsite to optimize acccess, and the method form may go via reflection
22:32	ynniv	ah, it makes accessors in Java?
22:33	brehaut	yes, of course
22:41	AtKaaZ	is it PLOP when a ref changes? or is it too silly to ask? PLace Oriented Programming
22:46	amalloy	IMO it's not a very useful question to ask, but: a ref seems like a place. however, having a place doesn't mean you're doing place-oriented programming
22:47	gfredericks	you'd have to orient your code around the place?
22:52	AtKaaZ	watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6BsiVyC1kM&t=4m10s "anytime new information replaces old information you're doing PLOP"
22:52	AtKaaZ	gfredericks, not really understanding what you ask
22:53	gfredericks	I was just failing to be clever
22:53	AtKaaZ	lol I think I read that litterally once and I smiled:P
22:54	AtKaaZ	but there may be some truth in it
22:54	tomoj	what's the proposed alternative to PLOP again? VOP?
22:55	AtKaaZ	multiversion control:)
22:55	AtKaaZ	imutability ?
22:56	AtKaaZ	I have to be honest with you, I pretty much don't know what I'm talking about most of the time :) even though I might've gotten some things right
22:57	brehaut	AtKaaZ: sounds like 99% of every IRC channel ever
22:58	AtKaaZ	amalloy seems right, maybe unless that ref becomes data like I dno, a tree made of refs, refs to refs
22:58	gfredericks	AtKaaZ: so I think at least you can say that reference types, when not over-used, are a lot safer and simpler than traditional mutability
23:03	AtKaaZ	can anyone recommend a graph database in clojure ? maybe not a port like neo4j, something simple enough that would be good to hold graph nodes with directed edges between them, and no other data like properties attached to either nodes or edges. I'm currently going for datomic.
23:03	Sgeo	place oriented programming? Anything to do with Common Lisp places, setf etc?
23:03	AtKaaZ	Sgeo, like updating the same place in a database to replace the old info with new
23:04	AtKaaZ	so PLOP would be a relational database, and VOP(?) would be datomic
23:05	AtKaaZ	(not restricted to databases though, like PLOP is OO and VOP is clojure)
23:05	ynniv	it's only PLOP if you overwrite the old value
23:06	ynniv	you can organize your db to only add new versions
23:06	AtKaaZ	so it would act like a mvcc database of sorts?
23:08	ynniv	not sure what that means
23:08	AtKaaZ	my problem would forever be how do I go back in time and see a consistent view of the database at any level, not sure yet if I can do it with datomic
23:09	AtKaaZ	ynniv, I got what you meant, not sure if it would indeed act like a mvcc multiversioned database as I said
23:09	ynniv	I'm not familiar with datomic yet, but I often think how nice it would be to use git as a database
23:09	scottj	AtKaaZ: not sure what you mean by "at any level", but with datomic you can to db.asOf(aDate) I believe
23:10	AtKaaZ	scottj, yes you can that, but the "at any level" would imply some sort of nested transactions, so that the top transaction would include multiple low level ones... I guess it would work if the low ones are only commited when the top one commits
23:14	AtKaaZ	ynniv, yeah I thought about that too, I definitely need some kind of git-like database esp. the branching then merging them
23:20	lancepantz	AtKaaZ: you still there?
23:20	AtKaaZ	yes
23:20	AtKaaZ	i was thinking of a question, in clojure how do you do two threads incrementing the same counter ?
23:20	lancepantz	AtKaaZ: https://github.com/flatland/jiraph
23:20	AtKaaZ	with dosync?
23:21	AtKaaZ	lancepantz thanks I'll check
23:21	lancepantz	we've been working on it for about 3 years and have it in production
23:21	lancepantz	it's very actively maintained
23:21	lancepantz	and faster than neo4j
23:21	AtKaaZ	sounds good!
23:26	gfredericks	AtKaaZ: two threads incrementing the same counter can be just an atom
23:26	TimMc	AtKaaZ: Just one counter? Try an atom.
23:26	TimMc	bah
23:27	TimMc	You even won on my screen. I can't claim IRC relativity.
23:27	gfredericks	oh is it relative? that's good to know for future gloating
23:27	thmzlt	so I want to dispatch a method based on the first argument type (string vs. map), hints?
23:27	gfredericks	multimethods or protocols
23:28	TimMc	gfredericks: Larger IRC servers are distributed as a bunch of nodes connected by a spanning tree.
23:28	AtKaaZ	nice, atoms, STM of clojure good stuff
23:28	TimMc	hence netsplits
23:28	gfredericks	TimMc: yeah; it makes sense
23:28	gfredericks	there could be an eventual consistent ordering
23:29	gfredericks	but that would cause weird visual effects
23:29	TimMc	There could be, but there isn't.
23:29	TimMc	Instead, each client just accepts the ordering of messages that it gets.
23:29	gfredericks	why aren't there git-based chat protocols yet?
23:29	TimMc	"Dude, I can't hear you -- accept my pull request first."
23:30	AtKaaZ	datomic might be like git but without the ability to do branches, I might be wrong, gotta learn datomic
23:30	gfredericks	AtKaaZ: you can do "local branches"
23:30	ynniv	thmzlt: (defmulti f-name type)?
23:30	gfredericks	but only one "master" I think
23:31	ynniv	thmzlt: (defmethod asdf (type {}) [x] 'map)
23:31	gfredericks	AtKaaZ: where by "local" I mean like temporary in-memory sort of thing
23:31	AtKaaZ	gfredericks, yeah I was about to ask that, something like assume that the db has this data and the execute this query ? I think I saw that somewhere
23:32	gfredericks	ynniv: might want IPersistentMap instead of (type {})
23:32	AtKaaZ	this new/extra data
23:32	gfredericks	AtKaaZ: yep
23:32	ynniv	depends
23:32	thmzlt	I'm trying to figure out the multimethod syntax
23:32	ynniv	maybe there's a string that implements IPersistentMap :-)
23:32	gfredericks	,(map type [{} (zipmap (range 1000) (range 1000))])
23:33	clojurebot	(clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap)
23:33	gfredericks	ynniv: ^ surprises there
23:33	ynniv	ah, good call
23:33	ynniv	(type {}) isn't stable
23:34	ynniv	that's why I wear my noob hat
23:34	ynniv	hmm, it seems that I have forgotten to wear my noob hat. well, beware!
23:36	scottj	,(meta ynniv)
23:36	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ynniv in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
23:37	AtKaaZ	if I ever want to use the value of the atom before modifying it, do I have to dosync instead ?
23:37	AtKaaZ	assuming 2 threads or so
23:38	gfredericks	AtKaaZ: no
23:38	gfredericks	if you want the new value based on the old one, then do it all inside your swap function
23:39	AtKaaZ	but if I want to use its value to compute something else, twice
23:39	AtKaaZ	and then increment it let's say
23:40	gfredericks	for tricksy things like that you can make a more complex atom, e.g. a map with :current-value and :last-value
23:40	AtKaaZ	say I do two calls where each takes 3 seconds, and each gets passed the value or the atom
23:40	gfredericks	make sure the swaps do the right thing, and then you can read the old value after the swap
23:41	AtKaaZ	I'm kind concerned if the other thread can increment the atom between those 2 calls which each takes 3 seconds :)
23:41	gfredericks	well only one of them will succeed and the other will retry
23:41	AtKaaZ	but if I use a dosync block around those 2 calls it will block right?
23:41	gfredericks	what is taking 3 seconds?
23:42	AtKaaZ	like if in one thread I do two calls and pass that atom, and when these are done then I increment the atom
23:42	gfredericks	I'm not sure what you mean by "calls" here
23:42	gfredericks	what are you storing in an atom?
23:42	AtKaaZ	but while thread1 is doing first call, which takes 3 second to compute, can another thread modify the atom so that it's different value for the thread1's second call
23:42	AtKaaZ	it's kinda hypothetical, but it's a counter
23:43	AtKaaZ	2 threads supposedly increment it by 1
23:43	AtKaaZ	but 1 thread is slow
23:44	TimMc	AtKaaZ: dosync doesn't know anything about atoms, and vice versa
23:44	TimMc	it only coordinates refs, and delays sends to agents
23:44	AtKaaZ	timmc, I ref then?
23:44	gfredericks	AtKaaZ: generally you assume that reference types are being updated behind your back
23:44	AtKaaZ	timmc, I figure maybe in this case I'd have to use dosync, that's mainly what I'm asking
23:44	gfredericks	if there's some reason you don't want that to happen then I feel like you might be using them wrong
23:45	AtKaaZ	I do assume that that ref to counter would be updated behind my back between those two calls
23:45	gfredericks	so what's the problem?
23:45	AtKaaZ	but then if those 2 calls are within a dosync, they would always see the same counter value?
23:45	gfredericks	yes but you're holding up other threads
23:46	AtKaaZ	is there any way to maybe do that without the holding?
23:46	gfredericks	without getting more concrete I really don't understand the motivation
23:46	AtKaaZ	hmm... get the value before the calls?
23:46	AtKaaZ	yeah you're right
23:47	gfredericks	you can read the atom initially and pass that value in with the atom?
23:47	AtKaaZ	I guess in a way I really need to hold the other threads from modifying the counter, cause otherwise it would be like starting off a new branch in a git which is based on now obsolete commit since other thread already updated the counter
23:48	gfredericks	why do the two calls need to have the same basis?
23:48	AtKaaZ	I mean, if I want whatever those long calls are doing to be in sync with the counter
23:48	AtKaaZ	not sure, but I feel that I may want that hmm
23:49	AtKaaZ	like maybe they are doing some datomic transactions using that counter
23:49	wingy	since datomic only holds one level keys i thought that perhaps i wanna use keywords with namespace in my day to day maps in clj land instead of nested maps .. eg. {:name "foo" :address/street "maple street" :address/zip "12345"} instead of {:name "foo" :address {:street "maple street" :zip "12345"}} .. the latter one is compatible with datomic and also it feels like it is easier with one level rather than nested levels .. which one do you
23:49	wingy	prefer?
23:49	AtKaaZ	one level keys?
23:50	gfredericks	AtKaaZ: I give up
23:50	wingy	AtKaaZ: see the example
23:50	AtKaaZ	gfredericks, thank you though
23:51	wingy	any input?
23:52	AtKaaZ	wingy, I'd prefer the latter, because it seems extensible, tree-like; but that's just me
23:52	wingy	AtKaaZ: the former looks more treelike :)
23:53	AtKaaZ	maybe I'm missing something, but the latter :address seems to have an inner {}
23:53	wingy	oh yeah
23:53	wingy	i thought the latter was the former :)
23:53	AtKaaZ	so, in your OP the former is compatible ?
23:53	AtKaaZ	with datomic
23:54	wingy	OP?
23:54	clojurebot	optimizing is http://clojure.org/java_interop#optimization
23:54	AtKaaZ	original post=)
23:54	wingy	yeah the former is compatible
23:54	AtKaaZ	yeah it makes sense
23:54	wingy	since you have to declare the keys in advance in the schema
23:54	AtKaaZ	so you'd have to say that :address is a map ?
23:54	wingy	in a post they said they would make the latter work as well .. but it wont be indexable/searchable though
23:55	AtKaaZ	yeah I was afraid of that
23:55	wingy	there is no map type atm
23:55	wingy	but then why have namespaced keys if we dont use them :)
23:55	wingy	i kinda like flat struture in a way :)
23:56	AtKaaZ	wish it was more tree-like
23:56	wingy	yeah hope they will support it fully
23:56	AtKaaZ	maybe you can use db/ref entities and have :address be a db/ref and point to an entity which contains those :street :phone attributes
23:56	AtKaaZ	this way, you can have tree-like =)
23:57	AtKaaZ	didn't fully consider the implications of this though
23:57	wingy	great idea
23:57	wingy	why didn't i think about this :)
23:57	AtKaaZ	you got lost into details:) I always do that
23:58	wingy	yeah, nested vs namespaced keys :)