#clojure – 2012-10-04

2012-10-04

00:12	ori-l	i'm new to clojure and am totally boggled by namespaces -- there seem to be 12 ways of managing them. since i'm still learning the language, i'd like to have an ease way to load the repl and have all the bindings from my clj file in the immediate repl scope.. how do i do that?
00:12	gert	ori-l: use leiningen
00:12	Sgeo	If I add-watch on a mutable reference, and then sometime after that nothing is holding on to the mutable reference, will it stick around due to the watcher holding the reference to the mutable reference in memory, or will it be GCed, along with the watches?
00:12	gert	ori-l: http://leiningen.org/
00:13	ori-l	gert: i did. lein new foo, editing things in foo/src/core, not available in repl unless i require
00:13	gert	ah.
00:13	gert	yes
00:13	uvtc	ori-l: there's a link to this tutorial http://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html in the cheatsheet.
00:13	ori-l	(as far as i remember -- i last butted my head with this a few hours ago)
00:13	ori-l	uvtc: this looks useful..
00:14	uvtc	ori-l: if you create your project as an app, like so: `lein new app my-proj`, and then `cd my-proj` and start a repl, it will be in your project's namespace by default.
00:14	ori-l	uvtc: why isn't that the default? is the default template geared toward libraries?
00:15	uvtc	ori-l: yes, the default template is geared for creating libs.
00:15	rmarianski	ori-l: (ns my-namespace)
00:16	uvtc	ori-l: what rmarianski said. :)
00:17	ori-l	this is a little nuts. just think of the number of discrete concepts you need to grok to fully parse this line: (use '[clojure.string :only [split]])
00:19	uvtc	ori-l: I suggest not using `use`. Prefer `require` (in the repl) and :require in your own `ns` macro.
00:21	ori-l	yes, that's what the tutorial recommends too
00:21	uvtc	ori-l: just curious; which tutorial are you following?
00:22	ori-l	i'm a bit too erratic to follow one thing through, so i'm solving problems on 4clojure and going to the books when i get stuck
00:22	uvtc	Ah.
00:24	ori-l	the riddles are mostly about transforming sequences, though, and i feel like what i'm missing is how to glue these transformation together into a program. can you recommend some short, idiomatic open-source clojure apps?
00:28	uvtc	ori-l: what sort of app do you want to write?
00:28	ori-l	uvtc: reads udp datagrams, parses them, slots them into redis
00:29	ori-l	uvtc: but i'm not particular.. if that's not a particularly good problem to explore clojure with i could fish around for something else to do
00:31	uvtc	ori-l: the only suggestion I think I can make is that you might try what I've done: start a new lein app project. Into -main put a call into some high-level function that seems like it ought to do what you want, then work your way down. :) Top-down like that works nicely for me.
00:32	uvtc	ori-l: sounds like you're going to need a few extra pieces working too though, such as db connectivity and network support. You might ask about those separately at a time when this place has more active folks. Maybe in 10 hours or so.
00:33	ori-l	thanks, both good tips
01:39	spoon16	I'm looking for advice about running noir in production
01:40	spoon16	it uses embedded Jetty right? but I can also build a war and deploy that to standalone Jetty....
01:40	spoon16	what is the best practice?
01:40	spoon16	there does not seem to be clear documentation
01:42	Raynes	spoon16: lein-ring
01:42	Raynes	spoon16: Look at gen-handler in noir.
01:42	Raynes	You can generate a handler that can be passed to run-jetty (and specified in your lein ring config).
01:44	spoon16	looking
02:00	spoon16	lein-ring talks about being run as a development web server
02:00	spoon16	I may not understand linux system administration well enough
02:00	spoon16	but how do you set things up so that if the process crashes it is restarted?
02:15	spoon16	upstart for Ubuntu looks like a good way to keep things running
03:31	beberlei	in clojure sql examples you often see the (into [] results) inside with-query. is there anything similar to get all values into a vector of records?
03:43	amalloy	it sounds like you just described exactly what you're asking for
04:00	Long	Good afternoon everybody!
04:00	Long	I am trying to :gen-class a Servlet
04:01	Long	this is my code
04:02	Long	(ns test.test
04:02	Long	(:import (java.io PrintWriter) (javax.servlet.http HttpServlet))
04:02	Long	(:gen-class :name test.TestServlet :extends javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet))
04:02	Long	(defn -doGet[request response]
04:02	Long	(let [wrtr (.getWriter response)]
04:02	Long	(.println wrtr "hello from clojure")))
04:02	Long	it can't be compiled by Lein
04:02	Long	it said "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet (Test.clj:1)"
04:03	Long	I already modified the :library-path in Lein as ":library-path "/home/long/workspaces/spring/LongHDi/war/WEB-INF/lib"
04:04	Long	but it didn't work
04:04	Long	do you have any idea why it did not find the class?
04:56	lpetit	Hello everybody, everybody hello
04:57	ejackson	Hello lpetit !
04:57	clgv	bonjour monsieur
04:57	lpetit	ejackson: congratulations for your talk at the conj !!!
04:57	lpetit	clgv: bonjour jeune homme
04:57	lpetit	:)
04:57	ejackson	thank you :)
04:58	ejackson	I'm running around a bit to develop something worth presenting
04:58	ejackson	I was thinking that 45 mins of lolcats might not make me popular :)
04:58	ejackson	although....
04:58	lpetit	YMMV :)
04:59	ejackson	indeed
04:59	ejackson	I'm just back from Strata in London where I was pushing all things Clojure
04:59	lpetit	I guess people will definitely expect more from you ;)
04:59	lpetit	What's this Strata thing ?
04:59	ejackson	its a conference put on by O'Reilly about data
05:00	ejackson	its fully buzzword compliant, but did manage to attract some nice hackers
05:00	ejackson	they hold the conference every few months in a different city so it always seems to be on :)
05:00	lpetit	he
05:03	ejackson	lpetit: you standing today ?
05:03	lpetit	ejackson: no, but I should, I'm almost asleep :)
05:04	cark	how should i go about providing clojure style equality to a type i created with deftype ?
05:04	ejackson	hehe, I also succumb in those times to sitting
05:05	lpetit	ejackson: but it's a clear indicator that maybe we should rest.
05:05	lpetit	Ok, let's take a snap :)
05:06	lpetit	I haven't done standing much these days. I need to by a separate keyboard.
05:06	clgv	cark: assuming the fiels of you deftype are pure clojure data you can just compare them
05:07	cark	but isn't there an interface i should "derive" from ?
05:08	ejackson	lpetit: yeah the keyboard is critical
05:09	clgv	cark: you just need to overwrite `equals` and `hashCode` from java.lang.Object
05:09	cark	allright thanks
05:17	cark	clgv: thanks, worked like a charm
05:17	cark	tho i'm not quite sure how good my hashCode is =D
05:17	cark	I should just minimise potential collisions, right ?
05:18	cark	like add a random (per class) number to the sum of hashcodes of my enclosed data ?
05:21	clgv	cark: clojure exposes it's own hash function clojure.core/hash
05:22	clgv	cark: you should not do a per class modification when you want clojure's comparison by value semantic
05:22	clgv	cark: you could return (hash [field1 field2 ...])
05:23	cark	well if i have class A and class B which both contain a char, but I don't want these to be equal even when containing the same char, so they should have a different hashCode ?
05:24	clgv	yes, but then you do not have comparison by value anymore
05:24	cark	right, I'm not really building a clojure style container or collection
05:24	cark	it's actually the Either type
05:25	cark	(Left 1) and (Right 1) should not be equal
05:25	cark	anyways thanks !
05:26	tomoj	&(clojure.set/union {1 2 3 4} {3 4 5 6})
05:26	lazybot	⇒ {5 6, 1 2, 3 4}
05:26	tomoj	&(clojure.set/union [1 2 3] [3 4 5])
05:26	lazybot	⇒ [1 2 3 3 4 5]
05:27	tomoj	&(clojure.set/intersection #{1 2 3} [4 5 6])
05:27	lazybot	⇒ #{1 2}
05:27	tomoj	(clojure.set/intersection #{1 2 3} {3 4})
05:27	tomoj	&(clojure.set/intersection #{1 2 3} {3 4})
05:27	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentSet
05:27	cark	woah the intersection with vector and set is pretty bad =P
05:28	tomoj	I wonder if those are bugs
05:28	cark	i'd say undefined behaviour
05:28	tomoj	I know I saw code that depended on the union of a vector
05:28	tomoj	I think it was in the cljs compiler
05:28	clgv	,(doc clojure.set/intersection)
05:28	clojurebot	Excuse me?
05:28	clgv	&(doc clojure.set/intersection)
05:28	lazybot	⇒ "([s1] [s1 s2] [s1 s2 & sets]); Return a set that is the intersection of the input sets"
05:28	clgv	tomoj: "input sets" so it is a user error^^
05:29	tomoj	&(clojure.set/union {1 2 3 4} #{3 4 5})
05:29	lazybot	⇒ #{[3 4] [1 2] 3 4 5}
05:29	tomoj	sure
05:30	tomoj	but what should clojure do?
05:31	clgv	well, that' the discussion "checking every possibility VS assume some knowledge of the user"
05:31	cark	that's clojrue for you, providing the fast path, let you shoot your foot
05:31	cark	i like it this way
05:32	cark	means I can be so much more inefficient =)
05:32	ejackson	after a few days conferencing I'm so glad to get back to coding
05:32	ejackson	(with a cold, compliments of the huddled masses of fellow conferenceees)
05:34	tomoj	&(clojure.set/union #{} "foo")
05:34	lazybot	⇒ "foo"
05:34	tomoj	&(clojure.set/union #{1} "foo")
05:34	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentCollection
05:34	tomoj	clgv: makes sense
05:35	kral	namaste
05:35	tomoj	but it is hard to see where to draw the line
05:35	ejackson	and good luck !
05:35	clgv	tomoj: you could wrap a contract function with :pre :post around those for your development phase
05:35	tomoj	with alter-var-root?
05:36	clgv	not necessarily. fogus wrote about it,
05:36	clgv	just write a second function with pre post that calls that one
05:37	tomoj	looks like trammel uses alter-var-root
05:37	tomoj	but, yeah
06:07	clgv	tomoj: you could use trammel right
06:18	wingy	why is :/sdasd invalid as keyword but :/sd/asd valid?
06:47	clgv	wingy: namespaced keyword probably only looks for the last /
07:13	marianoguerra	hi, how can I store a "reference" to a module in a dynamic variable?
07:13	marianoguerra	I want to be able to change that dynamic variable when testing
07:13	marianoguerra	or is there any other way of achieving this?
07:14	clgv	what is a "module"?
07:14	marianoguerra	(new to clojure) a set of functionallity in a namespace
07:15	clgv	marianoguerra: do you mean a namespace?
07:15	marianoguerra	clgv: maybe :)
07:15	clgv	marianoguerra: what exact yrtifact do you want to exchange?
07:15	marianoguerra	I have a namespace that stores objects in a database
07:15	clgv	*artifact
07:15	marianoguerra	I want to change it for tests
07:16	marianoguerra	other one is a messaging namespace, I would like to be able to "mock" those for testing
07:16	clgv	marianoguerra: you know that functions are first class in clojure? so you could just pass a function along
07:16	clgv	marianoguerra: do you use midje for testing?
07:16	marianoguerra	clgv: but if I'm testing a ring handler I don't want to pass the storage functions to it so it knows how to test
07:17	marianoguerra	clgv: will look at midje, I'm coding in clojure since a week :)
07:17	clgv	marianoguerra: well you can assign a function to a dynamic variable if you like to
07:18	cark	mock functions =)
07:18	marianoguerra	clgv: ok, that would work too :)
07:18	marianoguerra	namespaces in clojure are like in java? (non first class?
07:19	marianoguerra	in python/js/erlang I can store the module in a variable and use the variable, that's why I was asking
07:19	clgv	marianoguerra: there are namespace objects.
07:19	lotia	marianoguerra: you can use the :as keyword to alias a namespace
07:20	clgv	but I dont think that mocking the whole namespace via a variable is idiomatic
07:20	marianoguerra	clgv: ok, will check midje and do the function in a variable thing, thanks!
07:20	clgv	marianoguerra: usually you would mock the functions individually
07:43	wingy	clgv: yeah forgot it was a namespace
08:32	ds300	Anyone know how I can extend a custom java class which implements an immutable map to use assoc and dissoc? Can I just make it implement IPersistentMap or is there something easy I can whip up with protocols?
08:33	wingy	is datomic open source?
08:33	altious	hi
08:33	altious	does anyone got an idea why 4clojure dislikes def s?
08:33	altious	"You tripped the alarm! def is bad!"
08:34	beberlei	it wants you do work without defs
08:34	xeqi	altious: it uses clojail, which blocks it for security and isolation from other users
08:34	beberlei	let always works instead
08:35	altious	may someone give me advise how to rewrite this without using def? http://pastie.org/4908536
08:35	altious	let is not an option
08:36	xeqi	ds300: I think you have to implement that interface, the clojure on the jvm doesn't use protocols for that
08:36	beberlei	with (fn fib for example
08:36	xeqi	there might be clojure in clojure for the jvm that does, but not yet
08:36	xeqi	* one day there might be
08:37	xeqi	wingy: no, it is closed source
08:37	Sgeo	Can someone please explain TryClj's behavior here? https://www.refheap.com/paste/5496
08:37	wingy	xeqi: :(
08:37	ds300	altious: (map (memoize fib) (range 1 (inc x))) ?
08:37	altious	ds300, no
08:37	altious	fib uses fibm inside
08:37	wingy	closed source is never good for business!
08:37	altious	fib use memoized results as well
08:38	Sgeo	Who's the genius that thought that letrec would be unnecessary in Clojure?
08:38	Sgeo	:(
08:38	altious	maybe i can rewrite (def fibm (memoize fib)) with defn?
08:41	altious	doh :(
08:41	altious	writing without defs is effectively impossible
08:41	altious	don't remember such limitations earlier
08:42	Sgeo	letfn?
08:42	cark	,(doc letfn)
08:42	clojurebot	"([fnspecs & body]); fnspec ==> (fname [params] exprs) or (fname ([params] exprs)+) Takes a vector of function specs and a body, and generates a set of bindings of functions to their names. All of the names are available in all of the definitions of the functions, as well as the body."
08:42	cark	beat me to it =P
08:42	Sgeo	letfn is recursive, but it kind of sucks that it's limited to functions
08:42	algernon	altious: loop + recur?
08:42	Sgeo	Erm, using function syntax
08:42	altious	algernon, code may be not left recursive
08:43	altious	like in this case
08:43	Sgeo	Because you want to use fibm and have it visible from before it, but writing fibm as a function with an argument is tedious and idiotic
08:43	algernon	altious: aha, I see
08:43	Sgeo	(Well, ok, not very tedious, but it's still stupid.)
08:43	clgv	altious: you can write single recursions without def like: (fn [x] ... (recur (inc x)))
08:45	cark	also don't have to have tail recursion with this :
08:45	cark	,((fn blah [val] (when (> val 0) (blah (dec val)))) 10)
08:45	clojurebot	nil
08:45	cark	tho it's tail here
08:45	clgv	altious: in the case of fibonacci numbers you should use dynamic programming since you need all previous numbers anyway
08:46	altious	clgv, you mean to storea a map of earlier values manually?
08:47	clgv	altious: no you calculate the whole vector up to the number.
08:47	clgv	there should be a lot of examples on the net ;)
08:47	altious	clgv, memoization in this sample give us more
08:47	clgv	more runtime ;)
08:48	altious	it removes necessity to always do "+1"
08:48	altious	err. no sure i can explain this
08:48	altious	*not
08:50	Sgeo	Seems like defns at tryclj expire
08:50	Sgeo	Not sure if it's after a number of lines or after an amount of time
08:50	clgv	Sgeo: I think your whole session expires overthere
08:50	altious	one more question
08:50	Sgeo	I think it's number of lines
08:50	altious	is there a builtin fucntion which executes f(x), receives result of function and pass the result back to f(x) as param?
08:51	altious	creating infinite loop
08:51	clgv	altious: `iterate`
08:51	altious	with shared state
08:51	Sgeo	Well, (comp last iterate)
08:51	Sgeo	oh
08:51	clgv	,(iterate + (range 5))
08:51	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.ClassCastException: Cannot cast clojure.lang.LazySeq to java.lang.Number>
08:52	Sgeo	,(iterate + 5)
08:52	clojurebot	(5 5 5 5 5 ...)
08:52	clgv	,(take 10 (iterate inc 0))
08:52	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
08:52	altious	err
08:52	altious	something like fsm
08:52	Sgeo	,(type (last (range 3))
08:52	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
08:52	Sgeo	,(type (last (range 3)))
08:52	clojurebot	java.lang.Long
08:52	altious	do i really have to have a lazy seq :\
08:53	Sgeo	altious, last tries to get the last element of a lazy seq
08:53	clgv	altious: otherwise you have to write that function yourself, but then you need a stop criterion as well
08:53	altious	clgv, probably System.exit ? :)
08:53	altious	oh, criterion
08:53	altious	of course
08:54	lpetit	clgv: say you have this expression in an editor : "^foo :bar" and your cursor is at the start. Say you hit "forward delete" key. Currently it throws an exception. So I have to fix it.
08:54	clgv	lpetit: it's the mean reader, I guess ;)
08:55	lpetit	the issue is in the :paredit-forward-delete of paredit's multi method.
08:56	lpetit	clgv: my question is: what should be the correct behavior, so that it is consistent with the rest of paredit mode?
08:56	lpetit	should the expected result be "^foo :bar" with cursor after the ^, or should it erase the ^and bring "foo :bar" as a result
08:56	lpetit	clgv: I guess the former would be more consistent
08:58	clgv	lpetit: the first suggestion is the behavior with parentheses, right?
08:59	lpetit	clgv: right
08:59	clgv	lpetit: well, then it's probably the consistent one
08:59	lpetit	agreed
08:59	lpetit	deal :)
09:01	clgv	lpetit: I got my hands on repl backward search on monday after setting up the dev environment.
09:01	lpetit	oh great
09:01	clgv	lpetit: not completed yet - but maybe next weekend
09:01	lpetit	make sure to synchronize somehow with cemerick because I know he's quite busy correcting issues atm
09:02	lpetit	grrrr8 ! :)
09:02	lpetit	I should mark you as a developer, so you can mark the issue as started
09:03	clgv	lpetit: do you still have a CA to sign? I read something on the google code page somewhere
09:06	lpetit	clgv: it's still not ready (shame on me). But when it's ready (in one month ? one year ?) you can sign it and it will also concern past contributions to the project. So since I trust you, if you say to me now that you'll sign it eventually, that's fine with me.
09:08	clgv	lpetit: ah ok. that was not obvious from that page ;)
09:08	lpetit	sure, I don't remember why I suddenly stopped the initiative. One more thing on my plate .. :)
09:08	lpetit	clgv: you're now have the "commuter" profile, I hope it allows you to update issues
09:10	clgv	lpetit: I marked it "started"
09:11	lpetit	clgv: thanks, it will help a lot tracking what's happening
09:15	jweiss	is there a way to have a var's root binding be an alias to another var (when the target changes, so does the alias). and still be able to make thread-local bindings?
09:15	clgv	jweiss: afaik, there is no real defalias even the one in contrib copied the root binding
09:16	jweiss	clgv: so i would have to set the var's value to another var, and explicitly deref everywhere i want to get the value?
09:17	clgv	jweiss: sounds like that would get the job done. you should make sure that you really need such behavior, though
09:19	jweiss	clgv: i have 2 ns's, api and conf. conf reads in some credentials at runtime, but doesn't know anything about the api ns. the api ns needs to have a default value for the credentials as soon as conf knows them.
09:21	clgv	jweiss: so why do you need the alias? you could just use the var defined in conf in the api namesapce
09:22	jweiss	clgv: hm, that is a good point. i don't want api to mess with the value in conf, but thread-local bindings would be ok because no other ns would end up seeing any change.
09:23	clgv	jweiss: you mean no other thread, I guess ;)
09:24	jweiss	clgv: well, even the same thread. i know clojure isn't stopping other namespaces from seeing the thread-local change, but the api namespace doesn't call anthing that would care.
09:32	clgv	jweiss: if the thread local bindings must not be visible for other ns - then thread local bindings are probably wrong for that task
09:42	clgv	lpetit: should the completion work with namespace-alias already?
09:42	jweiss	clgv: that's why i wasn't using the same var between conf and api. but the model you suggest should work, it's just a different assumption than i had before. might have to comb through the code to make sure it's all going to accept the change and fix where necessary. thanks for the help.
09:43	lpetit	clgv: yes
09:43	lpetit	and it does, afaik
09:43	clgv	lpetit: but nor for protocol functions?
09:43	clgv	*not
09:44	wingy	why are they using "c" in [:find ?c :where [?c :community/name]] in datomic
09:44	wingy	what does c stand for?
09:44	ejackson	anything
09:44	Bronsa	a variable
09:44	wingy	why not ?e for entity
09:44	wingy	or ?i for id
09:44	wingy	just want to know why they picked c
09:44	clgv	community starts with c ;)
09:44	wingy	ah
09:45	wingy	riddle solved
09:45	clgv	just guessing ^^
09:45	lpetit	clgv: ??
09:45	lazybot	lpetit: What are you, crazy? Of course not!
09:45	wingy	clgv: has to be right
09:46	wingy	lol
09:46	wingy	if i just read 1 more sentence
09:46	wingy	The :find section specifies we want to retrieve all values of the variable ?c (for community).
09:46	clgv	lpetit: normal functions are suggested in the completion dialog but protocol functions are not, it seems
09:46	lpetit	clgv: well, if they are present in ns-publics, they should show up
09:47	clgv	lpetit: they are only suggested if I used them once before in the file.
09:47	clgv	on 0.10.1 stable
09:48	lpetit	clgv: I'll check that. Maybe it's a bug in clojure-complete which has been inherited by ccw ..
09:51	clgv	wingy: fail ;)
09:52	clgv	(dec wingy)
09:52	lazybot	⇒ -1
09:52	clgv	:P
09:52	lpetit	clgv: you're right, it's a bug. Can you please file an issue ,
09:52	lpetit	?
09:54	clgv	lpetit: "code completion" is the right term here?
09:54	lpetit	clgv: Eclipse 's jargon is "content assistant", but using "auto completion" or "code completion" is fin
09:54	lpetit	e
09:54	lpetit	"content assist"
09:59	clgv	lpetit: done. #451
10:01	lpetit	ok, tthx
10:04	iosica	question about java interfaces and clojure:
10:04	iosica	I have 2 interfaces A and B extends A
10:04	iosica	A defines a method foo
10:04	iosica	B defines a method bar
10:04	iosica	in clojure I reify A and assign implementation to var a
10:04	iosica	how do I reify B and reuse implementation from a for foo method defined in A
10:08	chouser	iosica: factor out the common code into a function and call it from each refiy?
10:08	clgv	iosica: you cant directly
10:08	clgv	iosica: what chouser said ^^
10:09	iosica	ok, I'll have to dup then, as my A actualy has 10 methods and B adds 2
10:09	iosica	thx
10:11	pandeiro	anyone know the difference between a java.io.InputStream and a java.io.FilterInputStream?
10:13	antares_	Langohr doc guides are up: http://blog.clojurewerkz.org/blog/2012/10/04/announcing-langohr-documentation-guides/, http://clojurerabbitmq.info
10:14	clgv	pandeiro: InputStream is abstract, FilterInputStream not
10:21	TimMc	&(cycle [])
10:21	lazybot	⇒ ()
10:22	iosica	trying from a different angle:
10:22	iosica	say I have interface B with 2 methods foo and bar
10:22	iosica	I reify B to var b
10:22	iosica	is it possible to dynamically change the impl of foo method on b?
10:24	clgv	iosica: if you use `proxy` instead, yes
10:24	iosica	moce, so how do I use proxy for this?
10:26	iosica	clgv: update-proxy?
10:27	clgv	iosica: yes. there is an example in JoC
10:31	iosica	clgv: thx I got it
10:52	iosica	clgv: I have a solution to my original question, works fine with proxies
10:52	iosica	(def a
10:52	iosica	(proxy [rvm.stat.A] []
10:52	iosica	(foo [] "foo called")))
10:52	iosica	(def b
10:52	iosica	(-> (proxy [rvm.stat.B] [] (bar [] "bar called"))
10:52	iosica	(update-proxy (proxy-mappings a))))
10:52	iosica	user=> (.foo b)
10:52	iosica	"foo called"
10:52	iosica	user=> (.bar b)
10:52	iosica	"bar called"
10:53	clgv	iosica: good. :) next time use a gist on e.g. refheap ;)
10:54	cark	omg i've been developing quite a bit based on the state monad, state-t, and now i find that because there's no tail call optimization in clojure it breaks with a stack overflow on larger datasets
10:54	cark	that one won't be easy to fix =/
10:54	clgv	cark: you probably have to use trampoline therefore
10:55	cark	yeah, won't be easy at all
10:55	mpenet	sweet, we are finally getting column metadata
10:56	cark	m-bind (with-monad m (fn m-bind-state-t [stm f] (fn [s] (m-bind (stm s) (fn [[v ss]] ((f v) ss))))))
10:56	cark	now trampoline this
10:56	cark	=P
10:56	cark	it truly returns a value in the end
10:57	cark	but hell
10:57	cark	m-bind is like the very base of everything monadic
10:58	cark	then what if the state is itself a function
11:22	mmitchel_	what's the most succinct way to apply a function to every value in a map, and get a new map back? I'm using reduce, thought about doing map wrapped in an "into"... but thinking there must be a simpler, core function to do this?
11:23	_ulises	mmitchel_: how about merge-with?
11:23	_ulises	&(doc merge-with)
11:23	lazybot	⇒ "([f & maps]); Returns a map that consists of the rest of the maps conj-ed onto the first. If a key occurs in more than one map, the mapping(s) from the latter (left-to-right) will be combined with the mapping in the result by calling (f val-in-result val-in-latter)."
11:23	_ulises	&(merge-with inc {:a 1} {:a 1})
11:23	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core$inc
11:24	_ulises	&(merge-with #(inc %1) {:a 1} {:a 1})
11:24	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: sandbox7657$eval57656$fn
11:24	_ulises	&(merge-with (fn [a _] (inc a)) {:a 1} {:a 1})
11:24	lazybot	⇒ {:a 2}
11:24	mmitchel_	_ulises: ahh ok, thanks. that's what I'm after!
11:24	_ulises	I know it's ugly, but that might work for you
11:25	_ulises	I'd certainly document what you want, because when you come back and see (merge-with your-fn the-map the-map) it's likely that you'll go wtf?
11:25	mmitchel_	yeah maybe so :)
11:27	clgv	the merge-with approach is strange.
11:27	clgv	clojure 1.4 has reduce-kv
11:28	clgv	mmitchel_: ^^
11:28	mmitchel_	clgv: cool, i'll check that out
11:28	mmitchel_	,(doc reduce-kv)
11:28	clojurebot	Excuse me?
11:28	mmitchel_	&(doc reduce-kv)
11:28	lazybot	⇒ "([f init coll]); Reduces an associative collection. f should be a function of 3 arguments. Returns the result of applying f to init, the first key and the first value in coll, then applying f to that result and the 2nd key and value, etc. If coll contains no en... https://www.refheap.com/paste/5510
11:31	clgv	&(reduce-kv (fn [m k v] (assoc m k (inc v))) {} {:a 1 :b 10})
11:31	lazybot	⇒ {:b 11, :a 2}
11:42	clgv	lpetit: does the auto completion need a literal "defn" statement to work?
11:42	lpetit	clgv: ?
11:42	clgv	lpetit: I have a defn+opts that expands to a defn
11:43	clgv	and the auto completion doesnt show me that one. gotta restart the repl to double check
11:43	lpetit	auto completion is dynamic, it calls (ns-publics), etc., so yes that should just work
11:44	clgv	lpetit: oh well, than namespace aliases are broken in general.
11:45	clgv	lpetit: oh. there is a difference whether I use it in the repl or in the editor
11:46	clgv	lpetit: in the repl it works - in the editor not
11:46	lpetit	clgv: must leave for 30', feel free to fill in an issue please
11:46	clgv	lpetit: I'll add a comment to the previous one
11:46	lpetit	ok
11:46	lpetit	bbl
12:20	abalone	cljsbuild question: i had it generate a debug version and an optimized version. the optimized version throws an exception that the debug version does not. has anyone seen something like this? please see the issue at https://github.com/achengs/subpar/issues/1 which has a link to a page that demos the exception
12:22	abalone	if you want to see the debug version handle your requests without throwing the exception, go to demo.html instead
12:22	hiredman	abalone: how familiar are you with the google closure model?
12:22	ds300	Anyone know how to convert a java Iterable to an ISeq from within java without writing a wrapper class? There must be something in clojure.lang...
12:22	abalone	hiredman: not. also not very familiar with js
12:23	hiredman	are you using any external libraries and expecting that to work?
12:23	abalone	no
12:23	abalone	codemirror is separate.
12:23	abalone	didn't :use or :require
12:24	abalone	only dependency is clojure 1.4.0
12:26	gfredericks	"codemirror is separate" is a correction to "no"?
12:26	gfredericks	for any raw JS libs you're using you'll need to provide an externs file to the cljs compiler
12:26	abalone	i didn't ask google closure to minify any codemirror stuff with mine. i kept the codemirror js file separate
12:27	gfredericks	abalone: so without the externs, any reference in your code to codemirror things will get munged and thus not work
12:27	abalone	what i mean is i have a plain js file that calls codemirror stuff. it also calls my cljs stuff. but my cljs stuff doesn't call any codemirror stuff
12:28	gfredericks	okay. then all you should need is for the functions in your code that you call from elsewhere to be exported
12:28	abalone	so my cljs stuff is meant to compile and it does export functions for my plain js file to call
12:28	gfredericks	okay I'm out of ideas then
12:29	abalone	i think the fact that the debug version that the google closure tool outputs ... the fact that this version works is a good indication that i got it mostly right
12:29	Bronsa	wow, :column metadata patch was pushed to clojure
12:30	holo	hi
12:30	redline6561	hell yeah source maps!
12:31	clgv	Bronsa: that means there is column information for a def additional to the line information?
12:31	Bronsa	yeah
12:32	gfredericks	Bronsa: what does column information consist of? How far indented the (defn ...) line is?
12:33	technomancy	gfredericks: now you can write a lein plugin that yells at anyone who puts def in a nonzero column; what's not to like?
12:34	gfredericks	amalloy would not like that
12:34	gfredericks	and neither would I! we must fight for our right to top-level-let!
12:34	Bronsa	gfredericks: column info is now also used in error messages
12:34	clgv	I like the sound of that commit: "reduce lock contention in MultiFn"
12:34	hiredman	itym fight for our right to leak memory
12:35	gfredericks	Bronsa: I wonder about it because I would think it's usually 0
12:35	technomancy	gfredericks: why do you hate private def?
12:35	gfredericks	I guess maybe helpful for tools trying to find an in a filesexp?
12:36	gfredericks	"sexp in a file"*
12:36	gfredericks	technomancy: that only gives me only one kind of visibility
12:37	technomancy	closing over stuff means you can't access it from the repl
12:38	gfredericks	technomancy: stop making me reconsider in public!
12:38	hiredman	vars are the best
12:38	hiredman	why do you hate them?
12:38	gfredericks	I don't hate them I just like hiding stuff
12:39	hiredman	why do you hate me then?
12:39	hiredman	hiding stuff is just going to make it harder for me to make your code do what I want
12:39	gfredericks	okay I renounce all previous opinions
12:40	holo	is there any pattern for "any vector"? i want to use it in a multimethod
12:40	clgv	holo: vector?
12:40	gfredericks	holo: what are you dispatching on? the value of the vector?
12:41	holo	gfredericks, yes, i'm dispatching a vector value
12:41	holo	clgv, yes
12:41	clgv	I mean: `vector?`
12:42	gfredericks	holo: then you could either use :default, or if not that, then you can't do it
12:42	clgv	or if your decision is not binary dispatch on `type`
12:42	gfredericks	multimethods are a bit limited that way
12:42	gfredericks	clgv: it's not predicate dispatch so he couldn't just (defmethod foo vector? ...)
12:43	holo	clgv, gfredericks, no, i think you are spot on.. thanks. will try it. hope the order in which they are declared matter
12:43	clgv	gfredericks: I didnt suggest that. you can build something via `cond` and `vector?`
12:43	gfredericks	clgv: still using multimethods?
12:44	holo	clgv, oh, so you mean "vector?" as some available function for binary test. hehehe. no, the dispatch function doesn't evaluate that
12:44	clgv	gfredericks: yes. (defmulti foo (fn [x] (cond (vector? x) :vector (map? x) :map ...))
12:45	gfredericks	so depends if he can change the dispatch function or not
12:45	gfredericks	I was assuming not
12:46	clgv	he didnt write that he can't change the defmulti
12:47	gfredericks	I think a dispatch function that only returns a fixed set of values somewhat defeats the purpose of a multimethod
12:48	clgv	gfredericks: dont forget the default case of the `cond` you can add (type x) there
12:49	gfredericks	do vectors have more than one type?
12:49	gfredericks	I guess transients count
12:50	clgv	dunno, maps do. I didnt check since he said "all vectors" ... ;)
12:50	holo	gfredericks, i think i can't change the dispatch function, because adding a new test would still oblige me to match the previous ones
12:50	clgv	otherwise `type` is sufficient. that way you can even use :type metadata^^
12:51	jkkramer	,(map (juxt vector? class) [[1 2 3] (subvec [1 2 3] 0 3) (vector-of :int 1 2 3)])
12:51	clojurebot	([true clojure.lang.PersistentVector] [true clojure.lang.APersistentVector$SubVector] [true clojure.core.Vec])
12:53	lpetit	jkkramer: hello
12:53	jkkramer	lpetit: howdy
12:54	lpetit	jkkramer: just wanted to know if you had switched back to emacs :)
12:54	jkkramer	lpetit: still using ccw :) though I occasionally find myself using emacs keychords
12:55	lpetit	jkkramer: wow, you're almost converted then :)
12:57	jkkramer	lpetit: I still wrangle with ccw's paredit now and then, but it's not too bad
12:58	jkkramer	lpetit: is syntax highlighting repl return values on the to-do list?
12:59	lpetit	jkkramer: ?
13:00	lpetit	no, indeed, but that could be a great addition. Feel free to file an issue !
13:00	lpetit	(working on REPL Log Area colors right now, for people using Eclipse Color Themes)
13:00	jkkramer	I used a hack in emacs for that and it was very helpful
13:01	clgv	does it make any sense to have `ref`s inside a `ref`?
13:05	jkkramer	lpetit: issue created
13:05	gfredericks	clgv: I hope not
13:05	lpetit	jkkramer: thanks. Must go now, see you.
13:05	clgv	gfredericks: well atoms in an atom makes sense
13:06	clgv	gfredericks: refs in a ref could - if the transaction fail semantic considers that
13:06	jkkramer	clgv: see http://clj-me.cgrand.net/2011/10/06/a-world-in-a-ref/ and https://github.com/cgrand/megaref
13:07	gfredericks	clgv: what do you use atom atoms for?
13:07	clgv	jkkramer: thanks =)
13:08	Frozenlo`	technomancy: Thanks for the mostly lazy podcast!
13:08	djanatyn	I don't have access to clojars right now, but I managed to download the joda-time jar
13:08	djanatyn	how can I use the classes inside in clojure, just with the jar? I use leiningen and nrepl inside emacs
13:09	wingy	datomic question: i get a vector with all ids with (def results (q '[:find ?c :where [?c :item/name]] (db conn)))
13:09	djanatyn	I tried starting lein repl inside the directory with the jar, but I'm not entirely sure what classes to iport anyway
13:09	wingy	nvm
13:12	wingy	back to my question
13:12	wingy	that will give me : [[17592186045424], [17592186045423], [17592186045425], [17592186045427], [17592186045428], [17592186045429], [17592186045431]]
13:12	wingy	what is the best way to loop through each of the ids?
13:13	antares_	wingy: map over them to get the first value of each vector, then doseq or map or whatever you need?
13:16	wingy	yeah map is good
13:17	djanatyn	can I launch "lein repl" with the classpath including the current directory?
13:18	lynaghk	ping: ohpauleez
13:18	ohpauleez	lynaghk: pong
13:18	ohpauleez	internet already?
13:18	lynaghk	I'm at a coffee shop.
13:18	ohpauleez	staying strong - I admire your dedication - what's up?
13:19	lynaghk	But yeah, realized I should get an Internet hookup at my apt. otherwise my sq. meter of monitor space is basically wasted.
13:20	lynaghk	ohpauleez: I need someone to bounce ideas off of re: the grammar of graphics and, more generally, architectural tradeoffs between specificity and generality.
13:20	lynaghk	basically, a technical beer or two. You have time later today?
13:21	ohpauleez	I do. I'll be busy around 3:15-3:45 and 7:45-8:15 - other than that, just call/text and I'll bike to wherever
13:21	muhoo	is something dead at heroku and/or maven? it's complaining that the checksums on clojure don't match.
13:22	muhoo	Retrieving org/clojure/clojure/maven-metadata.xml, Checksum validation failed, expected 9c684b580e1a70ab5eea761b854e1899152d4a40 but is a7d750077d5f2d54ae2d660a48539f7b068bda8f
13:22	ohpauleez	muhoo: I know heroku keeps their own mirror of things and last week maven central was all over the place (down and up without reason, missing packages)
13:23	muhoo	:-/
13:23	technomancy	muhoo: no don't do that; #heroku is useless
13:23	technomancy	lemme take a look
13:24	muhoo	technomancy: thank you!
13:24	wingy	i ended up with this: (map #(d/entity (db conn) (first %)) (q '[:find ?item :where [?item :item/name]] (db conn)))
13:24	wingy	gave me a vector with all entities
13:26	technomancy	anyone else seeing checksum mismatches for clojure?
13:27	technomancy	muhoo: also, did it say which repo it was coming from?
13:27	wingy	fail again
13:27	borkdude	What's with this (Object.) in get-in? https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L5517,L5534
13:27	wingy	(dec wingy)
13:27	lazybot	You can't adjust your own karma.
13:27	wingy	one more line and i could see they using map
13:27	wingy	im such a failure!
13:28	scriptor	borkdude: the key is in line 5530
13:29	scriptor	sentinel is the not-found value for that get call, and I guess they need to use identical to make sure that they actually got sentinel
13:30	borkdude	scriptor ah right…
13:30	pandeiro	why is intern called intern?
13:30	dnolen	nice :column metadata made it into 1.5.0
13:30	dnolen	alpha
13:31	shaungilchrist	pandeiro: "To confine, especially in wartime." /war/run
13:31	emezeske	dnolen: Last I heard, you were pessimistic about that happening. That's great news!
13:32	technomancy	pandeiro: I think it's a CLism
13:33	dnolen	emezeske: yes it is.
13:34	pandeiro	thanks shaungilchrist technomancy
13:36	scottj	dnolen: when I saw that commit I wondered if today was your birthday :)
13:42	dnolen	scottj: haha, let's get excited when we can actually step through sexprs in Chrome.
13:42	_firesofmay	Anyone tried this Clojure to Obj C Library? https://github.com/joshaber/clojurem
13:42	dnolen	_firesofmay: no, and it looks stalled
13:43	_firesofmay	dnolen, oh :-/
13:43	firesofmay	dnolen, Why do you think its stalled? Last update was 22 days back.
13:44	dnolen	firesofmay: if you want to interop with iOS I think it would be more useful to hear issues around leveraging ClojureScript for that via PhoneGap or JavaScriptCore directly etc.
13:45	dgrnbrg_	Hey clojurians--I have an interesting problem that i'm trying to find a more elegant solution to in clojure
13:45	dnolen	firesofmay: I follow him on Twitter. Just a hunch.
13:45	firesofmay	dnolen, Hmm.
13:47	dgrnbrg_	I have an atom that periodically gets assigned a new value, and often that value corresponds to a resource on an unreliable blocking network resource. I need to fetch that resource's data and update a textbox with its contents, and when the resource changes, display "loading..." until the resource becomes available. I'm currently using a swing timer and futures to do the blocking reads, but this causes problems if the resource beco
13:48	dgrnbrg_	since too many threads spawn. I have experimented with using an atom for rate-limiting, but the imperativeness of the code makes me sad
13:48	firesofmay	dnolen, people are using Clojurescript to write iOS Apps? Any idea?
13:49	dnolen	firesofmay: not that I'm aware of. But people write iOS apps w/ JS so seems like a promising direction to me.
13:49	dnolen	firesofmay: certainly interested in anything that makes that easier for people
13:50	_ulises	dnolen, firesofmay: it may be an idea to try clojurescript + phonegap
13:51	firesofmay	dnolen, I was learning Obective C today. Makes me feel so yuck :-/ specially after learning basics of clojure.
13:51	_ulises	dgrnbrg_: without any more context or knowledge, it almost sounds like you could be using agents there
13:51	firesofmay	_ulises, yeah dnolen was suggesting the same thing.
13:51	_ulises	firesofmay: oh, I'm late to the party then ... as always.
13:52	firesofmay	_ulises, it's cool :)
13:52	dnolen	firesofmay: I like fine Obj-C for what it is, but I'd much prefer to program in Clojure if I could.
13:53	dgrnbrg_	_ulises: it does feel like something that could be done with agents, but it's more of a single agent sending the function to itself, repeatedly
13:53	firesofmay	dnolen, Yeah. And moreover I've heard that phonegap (or similar) apps are damn slow. So clojurescript might not work for everyone.
13:54	_ulises	dgrnbrg_: and how is that bad? :)
13:54	_ulises	dgrnbrg_: I mean, other than it potentially being insane and all
13:54	dgrnbrg_	_ulises: i made the mistake of using swing for a gui :/
13:54	dgrnbrg_	lol
13:54	dgrnbrg_	so i've been losing my sanity slowly as threads overwhelm me
13:56	uvtc	Hi #clojure. I've been working on a Clojure tutorial. It's currently at http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/clojure/cds/tutorials/introduction.html . Feedback appreciated.
13:56	_ulises	dgrnbrg_: can you have the update fns update the swing component and then call itself again?
13:56	dgrnbrg_	_ulises: that's what i'm thinking about. But there's the additional issue of rate-limiting
13:56	dgrnbrg_	i mean, I can solve it all, but i was hoping there's a lib I haven't heard of that I could use :)
13:57	dnolen	firesofmay: I started on something like a XCode project template for doing CLJS last year but I'm too busy with other stuff. Basically it would be sweet to have a XCode template project that could run the ClojureScript compiler and give you a REPL for live coding.
13:58	_ulises	dgrnbrg_: if you want to go down the library route, you could enqueue requests using aleph channels and have the agent pull these and rate limit the frequency of the pulls
13:58	dnolen	firesofmay: yes there are some kinds of apps (mostly games) where I think this might not be fast enough.
13:58	_ulises	dgrnbrg_: but I'd keep it simple initially, try with an agent without rate limiting. Then you can wrap the update fn of the agent with something that retries, rate-limits, etc.
13:59	_ulises	dgrnbrg_: i.e. make those two orthogonal
13:59	firesofmay	dnolen, yeah live coding is what would set it apart besides beautiful code. And to think of it, it'll open up a huge door for clojure developers to make iOS apps.
14:01	casion	uvtc: do you mention keywords as functions in here?
14:02	uvtc	casion: Oh, y'know, I accidentally omitted that. Thanks. The source is on github, btw.
14:02	dnolen	firesofmay: somebody w/ a lot of time (& probably money) could try something like RubyMotion ...
14:03	pandeiro	you can't destructure nested keys in defn arguments?
14:04	casion	uvtc: IMO, it maybe worth mentioning that when you say "we can get a modified copy of the data structure", that you're not actually getting a new object like one would expect in another language
14:05	TimMc	pandeiro: Huh, I guess not. Interesting design tradeoff.
14:05	casion	when I started clojure that confused me that it was "returning copies"… and in fact I'm pretty sure you're the person who clarified that for me :)
14:05	pandeiro	TimMc: did you not know that?
14:06	pandeiro	dnolen: firesofmay: i did a basic cljs wrapper for the casperjs (phantomjs) api and i like the idea of doing the same for phonegap when i have time... would love to write clojure for android; my brain is just not big enough for java syntax
14:06	TimMc	pandeiro: I had never tried it before.
14:06	pandeiro	TimMc: so you are calling me weird?
14:06	pandeiro	:)
14:06	pandeiro	it works with let, right?
14:06	muhoo	technomancy: maven, iirc
14:07	TimMc	pandeiro: I think it uses the desctructure macro.
14:07	uvtc	casion: updated, thanks.
14:07	muhoo	technomancy: no, it was s3pository
14:08	technomancy	muhoo: still getting it? I can't reproduce here
14:10	firesofmay	pandeiro, Clojure for android/iOS would be killer. I don't know so much of android/iOS but this might be a game changer.
14:11	TimMc	dgrnbrg_: I just wrote my first actually-multithreaded Swing GUI. It wasn't that bad, except I suspect I'm still missing something re: Swing threads...
14:11	antares_	casion: for all intents and purposes, you are getting a new copy
14:12	TimMc	Specifically, according to one stack trace, SwingUtilities/invokeLater at one point called a Runnable right away isntead of putting it into an event queue.
14:13	casion	antares_: I just noticed he explains it under values, immutability and persistence… I just found the idea of persistent shared data structures confusing when I started, and most tutorials didn't really make the concept very clear
14:14	antares_	I don't think a tutorial should go deep into how persistent data structures are implemented
14:14	uvtc	casion: Ah, I got that out of order. Will put a note in there. Thanks.
14:14	antares_	only that they can be considered immutable copies
14:14	casion	antares_: I agree, but in the order I read the tutorial it didn't look like it was mentioned at all :)
14:15	uvtc	casion: It's meant to be read in order. I took care to have it make sense that way. But you found a minor bit that I overlooked. Will fix.
14:16	dgrnbrg_	TimMc: it's not bad at all, until you start dealing with other weird blocking IO
14:16	dgrnbrg_	which is where my problems come from
14:16	casion	uvtc: looks like a great intro tutorial, it's nice that people are still putting effort into things like this
14:17	uvtc	casion: thanks. Please let me know if you spot any more inconsistencies.
14:20	doomlord	what are the barriers to clojure/android
14:20	hiredman	the android gc is apparently not great
14:21	doomlord	ah, and pure-functional generates more garbage..
14:22	doomlord	perhaps other GC's make better use of immutability assumptions too
14:22	hiredman	android doesn't use a real jvm, which causes issues when you generate jvm bytecode
14:22	chouser	anyone know if python has something like clojure's 'take' fn?
14:22	hiredman	all this is solvable of course, and oracle is pumping out arm jvms
14:23	scriptor	chouser: slicing, maybe?
14:23	TimMc	hiredman: Does Scala have issues on Android as well?
14:23	chouser	scriptor: ah, of course! thanks.
14:23	hiredman	no idea
14:23	TimMc	I'm thinking of other non-Java things that produce JVM bytecode...
14:23	chouser	scriptor: silly me looking for functions when I should have been looking for syntax...
14:23	technomancy	scala makes it easier to strip out the parts you're not using
14:24	technomancy	plus it makes imperative code more idiomatic
14:24	TimMc	technomancy: That's more a size/startup time thing, right?
14:24	technomancy	TimMc: yeah, startup time is the #1 blocker for Clojure
14:24	hiredman	https://github.com/sattvik/neko
14:25	technomancy	hiredman: ouch, the last commit message just reads ":("
14:25	TimMc	dgrnbrg_: My program just has the Swing thread and an application thread that blocks ona queue until the human does something.
14:26	casion	the commit messages are pretty pessimistic sounding on neko
14:26	dgrnbrg_	TimMc: did you check out seesaw? It's really awesome for that part
14:26	casion	:(, try again, still doesn't look good, try fixing…, try fixing…,
14:26	TimMc	casion: Fighting with Github, looks like.
14:27	TimMc	dgrnbrg_: I haven't! I really should, though.
14:27	hiredman	the oracle arm jvm runs clojure great :)
14:27	scriptor	casion: to be fair, it looks like he was just trying to change something with the docs
14:27	dgrnbrg_	TimMc: it's glorious for making a swing gui!
14:27	TimMc	casion: This is where editing on Github directly makes sense.
14:27	TimMc	dgrnbrg_: My GUI consists entirely of one JComponent I use for drawing. :-P
14:28	pandeiro	interesting read on using v8 in android: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6880778/android-utilize-v8-without-webview
14:28	casion	Ah, so these are all commits on the readme
14:28	doomlord	what are the pros and cons of clojure v scala
14:28	casion	that makes more sense then :)
14:28	dgrnbrg_	TimMc: seesaw also has a nice api for graphics
14:28	hiredman	clojurebot: tell us about scala?
14:28	clojurebot	http://www2.palomar.edu/users/mhudelson/studyguides/rmnsqvsgothic_wa.html
14:29	hiredman	clojurebot: tell us about scala
14:29	clojurebot	scala is val foo = bar ~-> 45 <~< "Fred" %% x
14:29	hiredman	clojurebot: tell us about scala
14:29	clojurebot	scala is val foo = bar ~-> 45 <~< "Fred" %% x
14:29	hiredman	clojurebot: what about clojure?
14:29	clojurebot	clojurebot is amazing
14:29	hiredman	clojurebot: what about clojure?
14:29	clojurebot	clojureql is http://github.com/LauJensen/clojureql
14:29	hiredman	clojurebot: clojure
14:29	clojurebot	clojure is like life: you make trade-offs
14:29	hiredman	clojurebot: clojure
14:29	clojurebot	clojure is a language to use if you want to up your game
14:29	hiredman	clojurebot: clojure
14:29	clojurebot	clojure is not groovy
14:29	casion	clojurebot is having a stroke
14:29	Lutin`	lol
14:30	Lutin`	\o/
14:30	metellus	clojurebot: clojurebot
14:30	doomlord	ok.. i'm none the wiser :)
14:30	thorbjornDX	what is going on @_@
14:30	clojurebot	clojurebot is a cold unfeeling genderless mechanism
14:30	wingy	i love clojure
14:30	Lutin`	thorbjornDX: You're in here too!
14:30	TimMc	thorbjornDX: hiredman is playing clojurebot factoid roulette.
14:31	thorbjornDX	Lutin`: :)
14:31	doomlord	i like FP ideas, i'm kind of hovering around lisp for being multiparadigm and little dedicated syntax (eg wont reprogram symbol recognition i have for c++)
14:31	uvtc	I ♡ clojurebot.
14:31	uvtc	TimMc: teehehe... "factoid roulette"
14:32	hiredman	~clojure
14:32	doomlord	those who say they love clojure- were they lispers before clojure. has anyone moved from an algolsyntax language too clojure and liked it
14:32	clojurebot	clojure is not groovy
14:32	hiredman	~blip.tv
14:32	clojurebot	blip.tv is http://clojure.blip.tv/
14:32	technomancy	doomlord: check out the "state of clojure" survey; very few people come to Clojure from other lisps comparatively
14:32	thorbjornDX	I have a problem with a function: I want it to use functions from different namespaces based on the input arguments, is this something I want a multimethod for?
14:33	hiredman	thorbjornDX: (if ...)
14:33	doomlord	(perhaps ; over on #lisp .. they seem to look down on clojure as some strange mutant ..)
14:33	technomancy	doomlord: they're just jealous
14:33	Lutin`	Now I'm coming from Haskell and am interested in clojure
14:34	thorbjornDX	hiredman: okay. I had a seemingly terrible idea of passing a namespace into the function, and I quickly dismissed it :p
14:34	doomlord	i like the threading macro , funcallable objects, and literal vectors/maps
14:35	technomancy	yeah it's amusing that "just use reader macros" is an acceptable excuse for not having map literals in CL
14:35	Lutin`	Where should I start
14:36	nDuff	Lutin`: The O'Reilly book is a pretty good place.
14:36	nDuff	http://www.clojurebook.com/ <- that one.
14:36	thorbjornDX	Lutin`: Joy of Clojure is good once you get the basics down
14:37	scriptor	Lutin`: the best free and online resource is http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html
14:37	thorbjornDX	nDuff: I'm pretty sure you suggested it to me in the first place :)
14:37	scriptor	hmm, if only they used syntax highlighting in there
14:38	thorbjornDX	Lutin`: http://www.4clojure.com/problems can be fun too
14:38	uvtc	scriptor: I actually sent him a pull-request for that, but I think the maintainer is a bit busy with other things.
14:39	scriptor	uvtc: ah, hopefully he'll get back to working on it soon
14:40	pandeiro	Lutin`: i would start with https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/README.md
14:40	muhoo	uvtc: there's also lein-droid
14:41	uvtc	muhoo: wrong person perhaps?
14:42	scriptor	Lutin`: and for a light but very quick introduction there's the online repl: http://tryclj.com/
14:42	muhoo	sorry
14:42	Sgeo	Is it still accurate to say there are no REPL applets?
14:43	muhoo	technomancy: still failing. https://www.refheap.com/paste/5515
14:44	muhoo	technomancy: i can't seem to figure out which jar exactly it's failing on, based on that error message
14:45	technomancy	muhoo: ugh yeah, unfortunately we don't get enough data back from the underlying API to construct a useful error message =(
14:45	muhoo	technomancy: well, this is a production app, now dead in the water
14:45	muhoo	any ideas?
14:46	technomancy	I'll pm
14:47	muhoo	k, thanks
14:48	kaoD	hi
15:06	bonega	doomlord: I had never used Lisp before Clojure. Mostly c/python
15:07	bonega	And I love Clojure :)
15:07	Iceland_jack	I've used tons of Lisps before Clojure and I love Clojure :)
15:08	bonega	I still think that the java knowledge "needed" for Clojure were harder than the Lisp/functional leap
15:08	Iceland_jack	bonega: depends on your functional background though?
15:08	bonega	none
15:09	bonega	But I might just be weird
15:13	pandeiro	workflow to add some println to a third-party lib while in emacs/nrepl: change .m2/.../file, overwrite, C-c C-k, work at repl, back to .m2/.../file in emacs, C-/ C-/ etc, resave ... is there a better way?
15:20	gfredericks	pandeiro: a clojure lib? you can't just re-def some vars?
15:30	jkkramer	pandeiro: clone the lib's repo and symlink in 'checkouts' dir
15:30	pandeiro	jkkramer: projectroot/checkouts ?
15:30	antares_	pandeiro: what jkkramer said, the checkouts feature leiningen has
15:31	jkkramer	pandeiro: yup
15:31	pandeiro	awesome
15:31	antares_	pandeiro: if the 3rd party lib name is someorg/libxyz, then it should be under root/checkouts/libxyz and leiningen will use it from there instead of ~/.m2
15:31	jkkramer	you could also use with-redefs or robert hooke to wrap target fns, if you don't need to alter the fn interiors
15:33	pandeiro	jkkramer: and i could still inspect state inside the function when it is being invoked?
15:33	jkkramer	pandeiro: you could inspect the arguments or outputs, but not the inner workings on the fn
15:33	jkkramer	s/on/of
15:37	pandeiro	lein says it is ignoring the checkouts dir b/c the lib has no project.clj, but in the jar it is there, just in META-INF/leiningen/lib/project.clj
15:38	TimMc	pandeiro: ls -l ./checkouts
15:39	pandeiro	TimMc: I need to manually copy it to the lib root?
15:40	neotyk	pandeiro: try adding sources to source-paths
15:40	TimMc	No, I was asking for a listing of your checkouts dir.
15:41	technomancy	pandeiro: have you tried the tracing lib?
15:41	TimMc	pandeiro: Are you symlinking an unpacked jar? The target needs to be a Leiningen project, with a project.clj at the root.
15:42	TimMc	pandeiro: And remember that checkouts won't work unless the project is still listed as a :dependency
15:46	neotyk	can anyone help with lein templates?
16:05	pandeiro	TimMc: neotyk: thanks, i thought i could use a jar
16:06	pandeiro	technomancy: which tracing lib?
16:06	technomancy	pandeiro: I think there's a contrib or something?
16:07	pandeiro	tools.trace, got it, thanks
17:11	bisenbek	k
17:19	SegFaultAX\|work	I have a massive lazy seq (like, causes an OOM if I realize the whole thing massive). How can I scan the list in constant space?
17:20	SegFaultAX\|work	(some my-pred big-ass-seq) doesn't work as I thought it would.
17:20	technomancy	SegFaultAX\|work: it should work if you're not holding the head of the seq
17:21	SegFaultAX\|work	In other words, once I've realized a value I can safely discard it.
17:21	SegFaultAX\|work	Hmm, that's what I thought.
17:22	SegFaultAX\|work	Is mapcat not lazy, or break lazy semantics?
17:22	emezeske	mapcat is lazy.
17:23	SegFaultAX\|work	Then wtf.
17:23	SegFaultAX\|work	Lemme paste some code
17:23	SegFaultAX\|work	https://gist.github.com/3836525
17:24	SegFaultAX\|work	That's to find the longest palindrome inalongsentencewithnospaces
17:24	SegFaultAX\|work	technomancy, emezeske: Code paste ^
17:25	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work: (count s)
17:25	casion	I'd imagine...
17:25	casion	amalloy beat me
17:25	SegFaultAX\|work	Why would counting the size of the string matter?
17:25	amalloy	that's the most obvious problem; the algorithm would have similar issues if you addressed that
17:25	SegFaultAX\|work	How is that relevant?
17:26	casion	emezeske: re: question I asked before you logged off last night, conj was correct as I'm sure you guessed :)
17:26	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work: you walk to the end of the seq to count it, and you need to keep the head of the seq around to mapcat it
17:26	SegFaultAX\|work	,((fn [s] (count s) "hello world")
17:26	casion	I was misunderstanding what I was trying to do
17:26	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
17:26	SegFaultAX\|work	,((fn [s] (count s)) "hello world")
17:26	clojurebot	11
17:26	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: Wait, huh?
17:27	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: I'm counting the size of the input string once to build the range which is used to subdivide the string. I don't understand.
17:27	emezeske	casion: Oh, wasn't apply (as amalloy suggested) even better?
17:27	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work: what object is it that you think is getting too large?
17:28	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: The result of slice-all, I think.
17:28	casion	emezeske: no, afaik apply wouldn't apply (pun intended) because I needed to 'unroll' the arguments in the middle of a nested vector
17:28	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: But I don't see how what you suggested is hurting it.
17:28	SegFaultAX\|work	,((fn [s] (mapcat #(partition % 1 s) (range (count s) 1 -1))) "hello")
17:28	clojurebot	((\h \e \l \l \o) (\h \e \l \l) (\e \l \l \o) (\h \e \l) (\e \l \l) ...)
17:28	emezeske	casion: Well, glad you got a solution working.
17:28	casion	so I just needed to put a conj in the right place, which I had tried before I asked but had it at the wrong nesting level because the enlive docs (imo) were confusing
17:28	amalloy	no, the size of slice-all will not cause memory issues. but if the size of any particular element of it is too large, it will
17:29	casion	emezeske: I don't think I'd have ever figured it out if you didn't say conj would work so plainly
17:29	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: It just gets a large-ish string.
17:29	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: About 1170 bytes.
17:29	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: That's the issue?
17:30	emezeske	casion: :)
17:30	amalloy	if you're running on a machine with 1KB of ram, that's probably the issue
17:30	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: I mean the biggest element would have 1170 bytes.
17:30	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: It's a MBP with like 8gigs. :)
17:30	casion	the whole 'code as data' thing still needs to sink into my head haha
17:32	SegFaultAX\|work	Can anyone see any obvious reason why my code is dying?
17:32	SegFaultAX\|work	(Or non-obvious, as the case may be)
17:36	amalloy	i don't think this should cause you to run out of memory. how long does it take, and can you provide a string for which that happens?
17:37	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: http://challenge.greplin.com/static/gettysburg.txt
17:37	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: Just grab like 100 characters of that and you'll see what I mean.
17:38	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: Doing the whole thing will OOM.
17:38	amalloy	huh. i did this problem about a year ago in clojure
17:38	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: Do you see anything horrificly wrong with my code?
17:39	amalloy	well, you're using seqs, reverse, and partition instead of vectors, rseq, and subseq; those will reduce performance problems
17:40	amalloy	but i ran your code to completion and it works fine
17:40	amalloy	on the whole string
17:40	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: Wtf.
17:40	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: How long did it take?
17:40	amalloy	a minute? two?
17:40	technomancy	PSA: central has screwed up jackson again =\
17:40	amalloy	process has 1.5GB of virtual memory
17:40	casion	I get out of memory
17:40	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: Lame. Maybe I'll just rewrite it with a list comprehension.
17:41	SegFaultAX\|work	I don't care if it runs slow, but why is it consuming memory like that?
17:41	SegFaultAX\|work	I mean a list with just 1k elements is not an issue.
17:42	casion	SegFault1X: slice-all making a huge collection
17:42	SegFaultAX\|work	casion: But I'm not holding the head, am I?
17:44	casion	hmm
17:54	casion	SegFaultAX\|work: why do you want mapcat instead of map?
17:55	SegFaultAX\|work	casion: Try it and see.
17:55	casion	I did, and either I don't understand what you're trying to do, or map works correctly
17:55	casion	the former is quite likely
17:58	amalloy	i think chunking is to blame
17:58	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
18:00	amalloy	i don't quite see what you're winding up with too many of, but if i un-chunkify the result of range, the whole thing runs in 60MB
18:00	SegFaultAX\|work	casion: Slice-all is just trying to get a list of all possible subsequences of its imnput
18:00	SegFaultAX\|work	casion: So if the input is 5 characters, get all 5 4 3 and 2 character long subseqs
18:01	SegFaultAX\|work	casion: Then check each one to see if it's a palindrome, and yield the largest one.
18:01	SegFaultAX\|work	casion: Using a map there would result in a list of lists of subseqs. Mapcat makes it just a list of subseqs.
18:01	casion	SegFault1X: ah, I misunderstood what the function was trying to accomplish
18:01	SegFaultAX\|work	casion: http://challenge.greplin.com/
18:02	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work: https://gist.github.com/3836677 is a change that should work
18:02	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: Is it something I did wrong?
18:02	amalloy	well, you caused an OOM, so yes
18:02	amalloy	but i don't see why
18:03	SegFaultAX\|work	Well, at least my initial assumption that it should have worked wasn't totally off.
18:03	amalloy	like i said, something about chunking. i think you're keeping dozens of the 1k-element strings in memory at a time. that should still be fine, though, i would think
18:03	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: Either way, this is probably better done with a list comprehension and subseq.
18:04	SegFaultAX\|work	I
18:04	SegFaultAX\|work	I'm sad my first pass didn't work, though.
18:04	amalloy	right, subseq is the more important change
18:04	amalloy	since you never need make a second copy of the string in memory
18:05	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: Ah! It can share memory with the original string, can't it!?
18:05	amalloy	not just share; entirely reuse
18:05	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: So each subseq will be a view of the original?
18:05	amalloy	yes. subvec though, not subseq
18:06	SegFaultAX\|work	Should I vectorize the string, then?
18:06	amalloy	i would. i guess you can leave it as a string and use subseq instead, if that works
18:06	amalloy	&(subseq "abc" 0 1)
18:06	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Sorted
18:06	SegFaultAX\|work	,(doc subseq)
18:06	clojurebot	"([sc test key] [sc start-test start-key end-test end-key]); sc must be a sorted collection, test(s) one of <, <=, > or >=. Returns a seq of those entries with keys ek for which (test (.. sc comparator (compare ek key)) 0) is true"
18:24	TimMc	SegFaultAX\|work: Have you checked whether there are any leaks related to .substring?
18:25	amalloy	TimMc: he doesn't call substring, so it seems unlikely :P
18:25	TimMc	Oh, this is all done as seqs of chars?
18:25	TimMc	Sorry, I haven't looked at the code. :-P
18:26	SegFaultAX\|work	TimMc: I'm still befuddled as to why it doesn't work. But I'd love to hear your input if you have time to look at the code.
18:26	SegFaultAX\|work	TimMc: Either way, I solved the problem using a different technique.
18:27	TimMc	Well, I'll most likely take a look when I get home. Glad to hear you solved it!
18:38	thorbjornDX	how should I make a lookup table for a function? def a map? or defn a function that takes a key and looks in a map?
18:38	SegFaultAX\|work	thorbjornDX: What are you trying to do?
18:39	thorbjornDX	SegFaultAX\|work: I pass a map into a function, and I want to pass that map on to a different function based on the content of the map
18:39	SegFaultAX\|work	thorbjornDX: Is this not a case for multimethods?
18:40	thorbjornDX	SegFaultAX\|work: I was thinking that way earlier, someone suggested that I just used 'if. I compromised by making these fn-lookup-maps
18:41	SegFaultAX\|work	thorbjornDX: It sounds like the pattern you're looking to recreate is multiple dispatch. Maybe you should look at multimethods again :)
18:42	thorbjornDX	SegFaultAX\|work: I'll take a look. Thanks for the advice.
18:42	amalloy	i don't see anything "multiple" about that dispatch, but multimethods are still reasonable
18:44	BrainBacon1	Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong in a cheshire binding? I'm trying to decode json with single quotes in a middleman in noir https://gist.github.com/3836907
18:45	amalloy	BrainBacon1: that's a bunch of code and no question
18:49	BrainBacon1	amalloy: specifically the function json-update gist.github.com/3836907#L24 I have a middleman that uses that function with a binding for cheshire options. In the repl it will parse the json properly (single quotes in json, no quotes on field names), but when I run the noir server it doesn't seem to bind the options I put in.
18:50	BrainBacon1	amalloy: https://github.com/dakrone/cheshire#advanced-customization-for-factories is what I was basing my binding on
18:51	BrainBacon1	amalloy: https://github.com/dakrone/cheshire/blob/master/src/cheshire/factory.clj#L11 is where I found the options
18:55	casion	SegFaultAX\|work: does this work for you? https://gist.github.com/3836958
18:56	casion	I assume that unchunks the range and makes the mapcat 'actually lazy'
19:04	casion	updated with something that actually returns the palindrome
19:04	casion	which is accepted as the answer on greplin
19:05	TimMc	SegFaultAX\|work: What is slice-all?
19:06	casion	TimMc: it returns all subseqs of s
19:08	casion	well, all that are count > 1
19:11	TimMc	I'd like to see the definition on that.
19:11	clojurebot	excusez-moi
19:11	TimMc	clojurebot: ~chunking
19:11	clojurebot	No entiendo
19:11	TimMc	clojurebot: chunking?
19:11	clojurebot	Pardon?
19:11	casion	that was fun to figure out though, and amalloy was as usually correct
19:11	casion	usual*
19:12	TimMc	Oh, DERP. slice-all is a local!
19:12	casion	TimMc: for whatever reason, slice-all was being realized in chunks of 32 due to the range
19:13	holo	hi >.<
19:18	thorbjornDX	SegFaultAX\|work: I'm a little lost on how to use multimethods. Is the second argument to defmulti a 'lookup' function to determine which method should be dispatched?
19:18	nDuff	thorbjornDX: Yes.
19:19	thorbjornDX	nDuff: so when I 'defmethod, I need to provide the expected results of calling that 'lookup' on whatever I'm passing in?
19:21	nDuff	thorbjornDX: Right.
19:23	thorbjornDX	nDuff: would you mind looking at this?: http://pastebin.com/UmH4LrLB I must be doing something wrong
19:24	thorbjornDX	nDuff: it doesn't like that I'm passing in PersistentArrayMaps for some reason.
19:29	casion	thorbjornDX: that code works for me
19:29	SegFaultAX\|work	Yup.
19:29	thorbjornDX	casion: clojure 1.4.0?
19:29	casion	thorbjornDX: yes
19:30	thorbjornDX	I wonder if it's vimclojure or something
19:30	SegFaultAX\|work	thorbjornDX: Try reevaluating the whole file.
19:31	thorbjornDX	oh, weird
19:31	SegFaultAX\|work	thorbjornDX: Got it working?
19:31	thorbjornDX	yeah, that's strange
19:31	thorbjornDX	I dropped it into a separate file/namespace
19:31	thorbjornDX	and reevaluated
19:32	SegFaultAX\|work	thorbjornDX: Sweet :) So is that kinda what you're looking for?
19:32	casion	SegFaultAX\|work: did my comments above clarify the issue with your palindrome func anymore?
19:32	thorbjornDX	SegFaultAX\|work: yes, it seems like a more-concise version of what I was doing before
19:32	amalloy	thorbjornDX: multimethods have a misfeature whereby if you redefine one its dispatch function doesn't change
19:32	amalloy	you can avoid it by (ns-unmap ns 'foo)
19:32	technomancy	or just (def foo nil) before defmulti
19:33	thorbjornDX	amalloy: can I just re-evaluate the entire block again? Including the defmulti
19:33	SegFaultAX\|work	casion: I don't really understand why realizing the range makes a difference.
19:34	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work: nothing to do with realizing. de-chunking
19:34	casion	SegFault1X: it was making mapcat produce chunks of data… which seems to be too much for either of our jvm processes
19:34	SegFaultAX\|work	Ohhh. Neat.
19:34	casion	so when you dechunk the range it's 'one at a time' again
19:34	SegFaultAX\|work	Still, isn't the chunk size 32 by default?
19:35	casion	perhaps not again, but now
19:35	amalloy	it's 32, yes
19:35	casion	I thought it was 32, that's what it looked like it was doing
19:35	SegFaultAX\|work	So with a large string like the proposed input, that would only be 1170 * 32 which still is only 32k per chunk /at worst/
19:35	amalloy	there's still the problem of each chunk being much larger than we think it should be, but de-chunking makes the total small enough to fit in memory
19:35	SegFaultAX\|work	Why did it consume gigs?
19:36	casion	it wasn't consuming gigs here
19:36	SegFaultAX\|work	casion: amalloy said his ran up to like 1.7g
19:36	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work: 32k per chunk is pretty optimistic. strings waste a big glob of space, and lazy sequences have to allocate a bunch of objects
19:36	casion	that's odd!?
19:36	thorbjornDX	amalloy: I dropped a (def foo nil) above my defmulti, and that takes care of it
19:37	amalloy	meh. i'm sure 1.5g was the max heap size set for the process, so it didn't bother to gc before then
19:37	SegFaultAX\|work	amalloy: Even if the overhead was a meg each, that's still only 32 megs.
19:37	SegFaultAX\|work	Is it something worth filing a bug over?
19:38	SegFaultAX\|work	It does seem like one of those pathological worst-case scenarios.
19:39	casion	SegFaultAX\|work: fwiw I found lots of similar cases while googling
19:40	casion	where people were having issues withe chunked sequences consuming seemingly way more memory than they should
19:40	casion	all the way back to when chunked seqs were introduced
19:40	casion	unfortunately every resolution was along the lines of 'don't do that then!'
19:44	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work: i don't recommend filing a bug if you can't figure out what's actually happening. "my program uses a lot of memory and nobody can tell why, so it must be a bug in chunking" is not a convincing issue
19:46	dnolen	argh
19:46	dnolen	defrecord's are IPersistentCollection
19:46	dnolen	but they don't implement empty
20:20	thorbjornDX	multimethods seem dangerously powerful, should I use :default to raise an exception to make sure I don't break anything?
20:21	nDuff	thorbjornDX: they'll raise an exception if there's no handler regardless.
20:22	dnolen	thorbjornDX: haha dangerously powerful :)
20:23	hiredman	they throw an exception by default if there is no :default
20:23	doomlord	Does closure have CLOS style multiple dispatch
20:23	nDuff	doomlord: Not CLOS style, no.
20:23	nDuff	doomlord: ...but it has flexible dispatch mechanisms.
20:23	doomlord	.. or is the OO more defined by java
20:23	thorbjornDX	nDuff: okay, cool
20:24	nDuff	doomlord: ...there are both mechanisms that are meant to be fast on the JVM, and mechanisms that are meant to be flexible; you take your pick.
20:24	technomancy	when stuart H spoke on clojure at rubyconf one of the Q&A audience questions was "multimethods sound like they can be really hard to follow if they allow completely arbitrary dispatch"
20:24	doomlord	java etc use double-dispatch as a workaround for multi-dispatch?
20:24	thorbjornDX	dnolen: danger is good, unless my code is capable of causing physical harm to someone
20:24	technomancy	which was kind of ironic considering ruby has method_missing
20:24	doomlord	heh usual tradeoff
20:24	nDuff	doomlord: (which is to say -- Clojure supports some of each kind)
20:25	nDuff	...so that's also an available option, if you're willing to use 3rd-party code.
20:25	thorbjornDX	I'm using multimethods to close some fns around variables based on a :type that I pass in. I odn't think that's too far off the track
20:29	azkesz	hey, does anyone want to do something(that we both agree on) in clojure, _together_ ? I'm not really a programmer(certainly not in clojure) but maybe it will work eventually - I have the time
20:29	amalloy	"close some fns around variables based on :type"? i don't understand what that means
20:29	dnolen	technomancy: it's also only seems too powerful in theory - most uses I've seen are fairly straightforward.
20:29	amalloy	azkesz: just find an open-source project that you use and try to contribute something that would make your use of it better
20:30	amalloy	you'll wind up working with someone that way
20:30	azkesz	okay thanks amalloy
20:30	azkesz	any sugestions tho?
20:30	azkesz	of such projects :)
20:31	azkesz	(in clojure preferably)
20:31	technomancy	dnolen: it's easy to imagine code using it that is hard to follow, but yeah, it's also easy to use your judgment and just don't do anything crazy =)
20:33	amalloy	easy?! but the crazy things i want to do are usually really cool!
20:34	technomancy	amalloy: just stick to juxt
20:35	amalloy	~:(
20:35	clojurebot	Huh?
20:35	amalloy	i dunno what that emoticon is supposed to look like. i was just hoping clojurebot had a factoid for :(
20:36	amalloy	it kinda looks like a sad squirrel
20:36	azkesz	did anyone try storing clojure code in datomic? instead of in files let's say?
20:37	holo	azkesz, are you polish?
20:37	azkesz	I'm mainly wondering if the reloading of code would be better that way
20:37	azkesz	no holo
20:37	dnolen	azkesz: not Clojure code but the Clojure AST yet.
20:37	dnolen	azkesz: reloading of the REPL session maybe, kovasb is working on that.
20:42	gfredericks	clojurebot: :( is <reply> #<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :>
20:42	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
20:42	azkesz	dnolen, this abstract syntax tree is it something like Extended Backus–Naur Form (EBNF) of the clojure language, or more likely the tree after the macro parsing and can thus store any clojure code written by anyone?
20:44	holo	it can even store macros written by me
20:46	azkesz	ok so the repl reads the textual code and transforms it into the AST ? that kind of AST then...
20:48	wingy	there is a function returning its argument. what is it called now?
20:48	emezeske	wingy: identity?
20:48	wingy	yeah thx
20:50	gfredericks	$findfn 42 42
20:50	holo	azkesz, an AST is so i think because it doesn't have any "concrete" syntax (so it's abstract). coding in clojure is almost the same, because it doesn't use concrete syntax.. hey guys, did i say something wrong?
20:50	lazybot	[clojure.set/union clojure.set/intersection clojure.set/difference clojure.core/time clojure.core/dosync clojure.core/long clojure.core/short clojure.core/+ clojure.core/* clojure.core/doto clojure.core/unchecked-long clojure.core/+' clojure.core/unchecked-short... https://www.refheap.com/paste/5524
20:54	wingy	i need to loop through a sequence and return a value for matching if test
20:54	wingy	https://www.refheap.com/paste/5525
20:54	azkesz	I'm kind of hoping that by using datomic to store and load functions (even though I only saw it with java code) would be better with code reloading than by reloading an entire namespace file like normally; and in effect if would be a better way for me at least, to store my code like so
20:54	dnolen	azkesz: holo: I was referring to the AST produced by the CLJS analyzer
20:54	wingy	the issue is that a for loop takes only one body form
20:55	wingy	how can i make the logic of the code snippet working
20:55	dnolen	azkesz: by AST I mean a form of Clojure code such that it's something useful for further analysis or for a compiler backend.
20:56	azkesz	dnolen, i think I get it, but isn't clojure already doing something like that after the read part of repl? or something
20:56	azkesz	...i thought that's what you meant at first
20:57	dnolen	azkesz: sexprs are friendly then ASTs for user level code transformation - but they lack too much context for other kinds of things you might want to do.
20:57	dnolen	azkesz: of course that's debatable - Racket seems to pushing the macro things very far.
20:57	dnolen	macro thing
21:00	adiabatic	Clojure newbie here. I tried Eclipse with counterclockwise and, oddly enough, found myself missing C-a and C-e and C-k something fierce — especially since End took me to the end of the file. I'm actually ready to try Clojure in — dun dun dun — an emacs on OS X. What's everyone's favorite SLIME-compatible emacs that runs on OS X?
21:01	holo	what is a dun dun dun?
21:01	amalloy	most mac users i know installed cocoa emacs via homebrew
21:02	wingy	i should have used (case)
21:02	azkesz	like a sound effect :))
21:02	adiabatic	It's a musical something-or-other to introduce something in a dramatic fashion
21:02	holo	oh! i know what it is!
21:02	azkesz	well said :D
21:02	holo	it's actually 4 duns i think
21:03	gfredericks	probably depends on the melody
21:03	adiabatic	^
21:03	dnolen	adiabatic: I just use Cocoa Emacs from here http://emacsformacosx.com
21:04	dnolen	adiabatic: I think all you need to do now is install clojure-mode via (M-x package-list-packages)
21:05	dnolen	adiabatic: some of the cool kids are on nREPL but I haven't ventured there - others might have pointers about using that.
21:05	adiabatic	not from an identified developer…grumble grumble…
21:06	eggsby	mmm techmesh looks like a good conference... wonder if I can get work to float it :3
21:06	adiabatic	also an emacs newbie — what do I do to find clojure-mode on that page?
21:07	azkesz	is there something that would allow applying updates to clojure code in a stack-like fashion? where each update is say a transaction changing/adding clojure code
21:07	eggsby	adiabatic: I highly recommend technomancys emacs-starter-kit
21:07	icey	Is there anything like a "Built with Clojurescript" site out there?
21:07	eggsby	adiabatic: https://github.com/technomancy/emacs-starter-kit helped me enormously getting started with emacs
21:08	azkesz	i don't dare think of modular transactions :))
21:08	icey	or barring that, does anyone have any clojurescript sites they think are particularly great?
21:09	akhudek	icey: I imagine that most sites using clojurescript use clojure on the server
21:09	eggsby	I've always thought himera was a good cljs example icey http://himera.heroku.com/
21:09	dnolen	icey: emezeske has one
21:09	zmaril	Any ideas about how to get better performance from a noir server?
21:09	dnolen	icey: Light Table is mostly CLJS
21:09	icey	akhudek: I'd imagine the same thing, I'm interested in seeing what people are doing with CLJS on the client side
21:09	eggsby	d2 is pretty great as well
21:10	eggsby	err, c2 :p
21:10	icey	dnolen: Ah, I didn't think about Light Table
21:10	dnolen	icey: ohpauleez's startup uses a bunch of CLJS on their frontend as well I believe.
21:11	icey	dnolen: Is that Tutorspree?
21:12	dnolen	icey: yes
21:12	icey	dnolen: awesome, thank you sir
21:12	emezeske	icey: You are looking for an example of a site built in CLJS?
21:13	azkesz	what do you guys think about datomic? i wanna get into it
21:13	icey	dnolen: btw, core.match is half the reason I'm looking at CLJS for some stuff; awesome library
21:13	icey	emezeske: Yeah, mostly I'm just curious as to what people are doing with it. Are they using it for everything, or just for application bits, etc
21:14	dnolen	icey: thanks, sadly only 2/3rds awesome ... but it'll get there one day.
21:14	emezeske	icey: http://blog.mezeske.com/?p=552
21:14	emezeske	icey: Unfortunately I haven't written the blog posts that go into great detail yet
21:14	emezeske	icey: But I used it for all the UI stuff
21:14	akhudek	azkesz: think it's pretty interesting, but haven't yet had any experience working with it
21:15	icey	emezeske: bad ass, this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for
21:15	azkesz	akhudek, same here, I only watched the youtube videos and I'm pretty excited about it
21:15	emezeske	icey: The first post isn't super detailed :/
21:15	Sgeo	What's the discussion about?
21:16	Sgeo	Also, why isn't the URL to the logs in the topic?
21:16	Sgeo	I believe it's Freenode policy to have them in the topic?
21:16	Sgeo	Or at least mention that it's being logged
21:17	azkesz	yeah the last part
21:17	Sgeo	Also, the logger seems broken
21:18	holo	:o my crap is being logged
21:18	azkesz	lol crap
21:18	Frozenlock	holo: yeah, it's really creepy the first time a google search gives you back one your conversations...
21:19	adiabatic	eggsby: do you also recommend starter-kit-lisp?
21:19	icey	Is there anything like socket.io out there for ring?
21:19	holo	makes you feel kind of a public figure right?
21:19	gfredericks	holo: and all I do is make stupid jokes
21:20	Frozenlock	Well I'm used to #emacs no-logging. I was mostly surprised... and happy I haven't said anything dangerous :P
21:20	holo	gfredericks, you're being humble. i saw you more than once, giving god like tips in this #
21:21	icey	emezeske: Your blog post is useful just for the libraries listed at the bottom.
21:21	xeqi	icey: https://github.com/ztellman/aleph
21:24	Sgeo	xeqi, I'm... I don't quite get it. I see how you could buold a socket.io like thing on top of Aleph, but that's not the same as being a substitute for socket.io
21:25	icey	I saw someone was working on a browserchannel implementation in Clojure, but that's the closest thing I've found
21:25	azkesz	what does this mean to unify in this context: https://github.com/clojure/core.logic/wiki/Extending-core.logic-%28Datomic-example%29
21:26	Sgeo	icey, well, there are socket.io servers for Java, maybe ... doing something with that might be possible
21:26	icey	Sgeo: ah, right - I think there's something for Jetty. Thanks
21:26	Sgeo	Ooh, there is?
21:27	Sgeo	Link? Because I also happen to need this, and browserchannel may be bad for my use case because I plan on sending both ways lots of small information
21:27	icey	Sgeo: NO idea if it's any good: https://github.com/thegeez/clj-browserchannel-demo
21:28	holo	anyone knows why "clojure.java.shell" 's "sh" form sits there alot of time after returning the map with :in , :out, etc?
21:28	icey	Sgeo: err - https://github.com/thegeez/clj-browserchannel
21:28	Sgeo	icey, that's browserchannel, not socket.io
21:28	icey	Sgeo: sorry, I didn't realize which thing you were asking about
21:28	zerokarmaleft	,(assoc-in [[nil nil] [nil nil]] [0 0] 0)
21:28	clojurebot	[[0 nil] [nil nil]]
21:29	zerokarmaleft	is it possible to update an inner pair in one call?
21:29	zerokarmaleft	i'm thinking no, but need a sanity check
21:29	icey	Sgeo: there are a few socket.io java libraries around on github
21:29	icey	I'm coming from .net so I couldn't tell you which ones are better than others though
21:29	Sgeo	zerokarmaleft, isn't that what you just did?
21:30	amalloy	&(update-in [[nil nil] [nil nil]] 0 assoc 0 0 1 0) is what you want?
21:30	lazybot	java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: nth not supported on this type: Long
21:30	amalloy	&(update-in [[nil nil] [nil nil]] [0] assoc 0 0 1 0)
21:30	lazybot	⇒ [[0 0] [nil nil]]
21:30	zerokarmaleft	amalloy: yea, that's it
21:31	zerokarmaleft	that solution also makes me feel like i'm off in the weeds
21:32	Sgeo	,(doc assoc)
21:32	clojurebot	"([map key val] [map key val & kvs]); assoc[iate]. When applied to a map, returns a new map of the same (hashed/sorted) type, that contains the mapping of key(s) to val(s). When applied to a vector, returns a new vector that contains val at index. Note - index must be <= (count vector)."
21:32	Sgeo	oh
21:40	zerokarmaleft	i'm basically wanting to reduce into a 2d matrix by checking the collection i'm reducing against a corresponding row# in a diff 2d matrix: https://gist.github.com/3837554
21:42	zerokarmaleft	i guess it's going to be hairy no matter what since i don't think i can escape dealing with indices
21:57	TimMc	zerokarmaleft: Why not this? ##(assoc-in [[nil nil] [nil nil]] [0] [1 2])
21:57	lazybot	⇒ [[1 2] [nil nil]]
21:58	azkesz	looks nice
21:58	azkesz	,(assoc-in [[nil nil] [nil nil]] [1] [1 2])
21:58	clojurebot	[[nil nil] [1 2]]
21:58	azkesz	awesome
21:58	TimMc	which of course is just ##(assoc [[nil nil] [nil nil]] 0 [1 2])
21:58	lazybot	⇒ [[1 2] [nil nil]]
21:59	azkesz	so many ways to do it...
21:59	zerokarmaleft	TimMc: that would work great as well, but it presumes i build a nested data structure of nils beforehand, right?
21:59	zerokarmaleft	else it inserts a MapEntry?
21:59	azkesz	,(assoc-in [[nil nil]] [1] [1 2])
21:59	clojurebot	[[nil nil] [1 2]]
21:59	azkesz	,(assoc-in [] [1] [1 2])
21:59	clojurebot	#<IndexOutOfBoundsException java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException>
22:00	azkesz	,(assoc-in [] [0] [1 2])
22:00	clojurebot	[[1 2]]
22:00	zerokarmaleft	ah, swank
22:00	TimMc	azkesz: vectors support assoc'ing to the index right after the end, for convenience.
22:00	azkesz	timmc makes sense thanks
22:02	TimMc	zerokarmaleft: I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. Sample input and output?
22:02	TimMc	Are the elements of sigs pairs of row #s?
22:02	zerokarmaleft	TimMc: https://gist.github.com/3837554
22:03	TimMc	Oh wait, you're going column-first?!
22:03	TimMc	Yeah, I was reading that and failing to comprehend.
22:03	azkesz	what's a sig?
22:04	azkesz	signature?
22:04	zerokarmaleft	yea, they're collections of hash function values
22:08	TimMc	zerokarmaleft: If you want advice, you're going to need to explain more clearly what you're trying to do.
22:12	zerokarmaleft	TimMc: i'm updating the gist to explain it in a couple steps
22:12	TimMc	ok, cool
22:15	TimMc	Ah, this is starting to make sense.
22:16	zerokarmaleft	i omitted some less interesting steps
22:17	zerokarmaleft	bah, i'll go ahead and add it
22:17	Sgeo	Hmm, I'm wondering if it would be a bad idea to just put a large hash into an agent rather than have the hash hold mutable values which hold hashes with mutable values etc.
22:19	Raynes	Sgeo: You're going to want to restrict yourself to as few mutable things as possible. Go for a mutable thing holding a not mutable thing and not a not mutable thing holding a bunch of mutable things.
22:20	Sgeo	Hmm. Although I do wonder about efficiency with that, in particular, different threads trying to update different parts of it at the same time, there's no reason for one to wait for the other
22:21	Sgeo	There's also the fact that I would want watchers watching just portions...
22:21	TimMc	zerokarmaleft: So the inputs are an r-by-c matrix and a pair-vector of length r, and the output is a pair-vector of length c.
22:22	TimMc	and you're merging pairs element-wise by min.
22:22	zerokarmaleft	TimMc: yes
22:23	zerokarmaleft	much more succinctly put, heh
22:25	TimMc	I think you'll want a map followed by a reduce.
22:26	TimMc	(map (fn [row sig] ...) matrix sigs) gives you a seq of ([[1 1] nil nil [1 1]] ...)
22:27	TimMc	and then (reduce merge-sigs (vec (cycle c nil)) sig-partials)
22:28	TimMc	This supposes that the matrix is a sequence of rows, not columns.
22:30	zerokarmaleft	ah, that makes sense
22:31	zerokarmaleft	it should be possible column-wise too, it just needs to be consistent throughout
22:31	zerokarmaleft	TimMc: thanks, i'll try that track
22:36	TimMc	row-then-column is the convention, so if you have a choice, it may be more maintainable that way.
22:36	TimMc	May I ask what this is all in pursuit of?
22:41	TimMc	Oh, and I'll note that the reduce step is associative, so if you're dealing with big wads of data, the reducers lib might be useful.
22:45	wingy	im trying to learn cljs
22:45	wingy	could someone help me converting this to cljs: $(document).on('mobileinit', function() {...});
22:58	wingy	(.on (js/$ js/document) "mobileinit" #(...))
23:01	wingy	if i :use js in the beginning of the file: (.on ($ document) "mobileinit" #(…))
23:06	wingy	didnt seem to work to :use js
23:14	adiabatic	Half off-topic, but: I have a line that looks like " ))". How can I tell emacs to take the entire file, or at least a region, and reformat everything so the parens go at the end of the previous line? C-M-\ only handles indentation
23:48	zerokarmaleft	TimMc: sorry, wandered off to grill some dinner
23:49	zerokarmaleft	i'm implementing an algorithm for finding similar items with locality-sensitive hashing
23:52	zerokarmaleft	it probably makes more sense to do it in hadoop, but i just wanted to hack it up in clojure as a non-trivial exercise
23:55	TimMc	Ah, LSH.
23:55	bjorkintosh	lispshell?
23:56	TimMc	bjorkintosh: It's a way of clustering things based on feature vectors.
23:59	zerokarmaleft	TimMc: hence, that naive matrix representation and so on