#clojure – 2012-10-02

2012-10-02

00:49	Frozenlock	Oh wow. Going back to seesaw after a couple months of clojurescript... NOW I understand the CSS-style selectors!
01:23	jasonleaf	hi, has seq-utils in clojure contribute been deprecated in 1.4?
01:23	xeqi	~contrib
01:23	clojurebot	Monolithic clojure.contrib has been split up in favor of smaller, actually-maintained libs. Transition notes here: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
01:27	jasonleaf	thanks, but seq-utils is not among the modules listed in the page
02:55	mpan	I seem to misunderstand here, but: how do I get back the whole tree (no zip metadata) from a zipper?
02:55	mpan	zip/node doesn't seem to do what I thought
02:56	Sgeo	How easy/difficult would it be to add my own protocol to Aleph?
02:56	Sgeo	Erm, well, make a library that allows Aleph to use my protocol
02:57	mpan	wait, does zip/root return the tree at the root or a zipper wrapping the tree at the root?
03:00	gtuckerkellogg	Something is clearly wrong here, but I am feeling foolishly stumped. https://www.refheap.com/paste/5426
03:02	amalloy	gtuckerkellogg: you're not using the same (rand) for each test
03:07	gtuckerkellogg	amalloy: but I'm not within each call to weighted-idx, either
03:07	mpan	in case anyone else was wondering, my main issue was a logic error, but, to clarify: root returns a bare tree (loses the zipper wrapper) and node returns a bare node (same)
03:08	gtuckerkellogg	(map (fn [x] (codachrom.core/weighted-idx [1 1 1])) (range 300)) should 300 weighted draws of the index
03:08	gtuckerkellogg	er, "give" 300 weighted draws
03:09	mpan	wondering for future reference, though: how do you get the zipper at the root from a zipper short of constructing a new one?
03:09	gtuckerkellogg	but yet, you are right. If i move the rand to the let bindings, it behaves as it should
03:23	Sgeo	With Ring, would it make sense to return a body that's an InputStream and make an input stream such that reading from it blocks until I have some data
03:23	Sgeo	?
03:27	wingy	jezz light table is the shit
03:27	wingy	cloud9ide moved the ide to the cloud .. light table creates a whole new dev env
03:33	amalloy	btw gtuckerkellogg, i think your definition of cprobs is just (reductions + probs)
03:33	amalloy	&(let [probs [1/4 1/2 1/4]] (reductions + probs))
03:33	lazybot	⇒ (1/4 3/4 1N)
03:34	gtuckerkellogg	oohhh, I hadn't seen reductions before
03:34	gtuckerkellogg	thanks amalloy
03:35	amalloy	gtuckerkellogg: because that's implementing a sensible algorithm instead of a nonsense one
03:36	amalloy	you don't say "pick a number. was it less than 1/4? okay, now pick another number. is it less than 3/4?"
03:36	amalloy	you pick a single number and step through the pdf
03:37	amalloy	i had an implementation of this around somewhere, but i can't find it anymore
03:53	Amaryl	Hi! I can't really understand how "apply" works... They give this example in "Clojure Programming": (apply hash-map [:a 5 :b 6]) ;= {:a 5, :b 6} Does this mean that apply does some sort of "concat" with results?
03:57	Sgeo	,(hash-map :a 5 :b 6)
03:57	clojurebot	{:a 5, :b 6}
03:57	Sgeo	apply is basically a way of taking a concrete list, and expanding it out into arguments to be given to a function
03:58	Sgeo	,(letfn [(f [a b c] {:a a :b b :c c})] (f 1 2 3))
03:58	clojurebot	{:a 1, :b 2, :c 3}
03:58	Sgeo	,(letfn [(f [a b c] {:a a :b b :c c})] (apply f [1 2 3]))
03:58	clojurebot	{:a 1, :b 2, :c 3}
04:01	wingy	isnt this outdated info http://www.brainonfire.net/files/seqs-and-colls/main.html
04:01	wingy	a string should be a coll?
04:01	amalloy	wingy: it's an article about clojure, on the web. odds are, yes it's outdated
04:01	Sgeo	,(coll? "Hello")
04:01	clojurebot	false
04:02	amalloy	but that table looks good to me
04:02	amalloy	and unlikely to change anytime soon
04:02	amalloy	i think TimMc wrote that one?
04:02	wingy	ok
04:09	Amaryl	haa ok Sgeo ! I didn't realized that "hash-map" was basically variadic! I just read about "map" and "reduce", and I was expecting something more complicated with "apply"... :)
04:14	mpan	how can I use clojure.zip zippers to splice subtrees together?
04:14	mpan	the particular operation I'm trying to do is swap two subtrees of different trees
04:15	mpan	I want to use replace, I think? but where do I get just the subtree from the other side?
04:19	Sgeo	Is Redis a good idea if I'm mostly just interested in the pub/sub stuff?
04:21	mpenet	Depends on your requirements, but yes, it is quite good at that. Easy to use, easy to setup/maintain
04:21	kral	namaste
04:21	mpenet	Sgeo: also check 0mq
04:22	kral	0mq is really nice
04:22	Sgeo	Um
04:22	Sgeo	This looks like it might be a bit overkill
04:22	Sgeo	Then again, Redis probably is too
04:26	mpan	hm, there's clojure.zip/remove, but I kind of need the opposite of that
04:39	mpan	in case anyone was wondering about the same thing about the zippers: I can't find any mention of this explicitly documented, but it seems (??) that the first elem in a zipper is the subtree at its current location (can anyone confirm this is generally true?)
04:49	Sgeo	Hmm, is http://www.clojure-toolbox.com/ old?
04:50	mpenet	yes
04:51	AustinYun	hm, the lein-ring auto-refresh the browser window feature thingy isn't working; probably XMonad's fault though
04:51	weavejester	AustinYun: It's unlikely to be the fault of your window manager… what version of Ring/Lein-Ring are you using?
05:05	AustinYun	ring 1.1.6, lein-ring 0.7.5
05:05	AustinYun	seriously though, weird stuff like that seems to happen because of XMonad
05:05	weavejester	AustinYun: Really? All wrap-refresh does is inject some JS into the page
05:06	weavejester	AustinYun: The content-type needs to be text/html though.
05:06	weavejester	AustinYun: And the page needs a <head> element
05:06	AustinYun	ok, that's probably it then
06:31	wingy	simple, not easy!
07:23	mindbender1	what's the poor man's alternative to domina
07:25	mpenet	jayq and related libs is a good alternative
07:25	mpenet	are*
07:25	mpenet	if you know jquery the learning curve is almost non existant
07:27	mindbender1	mpenet: i really don't that's why I have been on the run.. but thanks for mentioning it
07:30	wingy	how do you add doctype using hiccup?
07:35	wingy	i should probably use noir instead of compojure directly
07:36	weavejester	wingy: There are functions in hiccup.page for adding doctypes
07:37	mpenet	wingy: the html* functions add it for you also
07:38	mpenet	well same thing :) just realized they are in hiccup.page
07:38	wingy	ok
07:38	wingy	(:use hiccup.page)
07:39	wingy	(GET "/" [] (html5 layout))
07:39	wingy	seems to work
07:39	wingy	thx
07:45	wingy	having a layout wrapping a body was simple as i imagined
07:45	wingy	(GET "/" [] (html5 layout body))
07:45	wingy	no need for middleware
08:51	pandeiro	how can i create and define a var in in ns bar from ns foo?
08:51	pandeiro	,(doc intern)
08:51	clojurebot	"([ns name] [ns name val]); Finds or creates a var named by the symbol name in the namespace ns (which can be a symbol or a namespace), setting its root binding to val if supplied. The namespace must exist. The var will adopt any metadata from the name symbol. Returns the var."
08:53	cemerick	pandeiro: might want to look at the immigrate utility from contrib
08:54	cemerick	crude, but does the job. Could extract out a more subtle operation.
08:56	TimMc	wingy: A string is seq-able, but isn't itself a collection.
08:57	TimMc	and that table is automatically generated using Clojure 1.3.
08:58	pandeiro	cemerick: i'm just writing a app.repl ns to automate all the junk i have to do when i need to re-launch, intern seems fine for that purpose, but i will bookmark immigrate, thanks
08:59	pandeiro	cemerick: btw still yet to debug why my mail attachment inputstreams won't work with clutch/put-attachment
08:59	wingy	TimMc: i c
08:59	wingy	TimMc: does seq? means seqable or sequence?
09:01	gfredericks	,(seq? [])
09:01	clojurebot	false
09:01	gfredericks	it means something that implements the ISeq interface I believe
09:01	wingy	but does one say its then a sequence or a seqable
09:02	gfredericks	I don't know if the word "sequence" is very strictly defined around here
09:03	gfredericks	a vector is not a seq, but it is seqable and is also sequential
09:04	pandeiro	cemerick: i was poking around clutch too and looking at lazy-view-seq to try to understand how that works... am i right that it 'slurps' the entire view (per query parameters) into memory first, then turns it into a lazy-seq? so it uses heap space as if it were greedy?
09:04	wingy	then seq? has to mean sequence?
09:04	wingy	since vector is returning false
09:04	cemerick	pandeiro: it shouldn't, no
09:05	pandeiro	cemerick: ok let me go back and try to understand it better
09:05	cemerick	if it does, it's a bug
09:06	wingy	how does one have a attribute with no value in hiccup
09:06	pandeiro	just to be clear, eg i have a million doc db, i call all-documents, those docs are not in memory from that moment?
09:06	wingy	[:a {:href "/account_types" :data-prefetch} did give me an error Map literal must contain an even number of forms
09:07	pandeiro	b/c i was imagining you would need some clever (and magic) use of 'limit=' under the covers to do what lazy-view-seq does
09:07	gfredericks	why does lein keep running to the internet every other day when I haven't changed my project.clj?
09:07	pandeiro	gfredericks: boredom?
09:08	gfredericks	it is frustrating behavior when on a slow internet connection
09:08	cemerick	gfredericks: you have SNAPSHOT dependencies (direct or transitively)
09:08	cemerick	You can run lein in offline mode to avoid such checks.
09:08	cemerick	In theory, anyway? :-P
09:09	gfredericks	cemerick: ah that's probably true; thanks
09:09	wingy	[:a {:href "/account_types" :data-prefetch true} worked
09:11	cemerick	pandeiro: `changes` uses lazy-view-seq; otherwise, you need to use lazy-view-seq explicitly
09:11	pandeiro	cemerick: ahhh
09:11	cemerick	oh, hah, I should read my own lib's code
09:11	pandeiro	hadn't realized that
09:12	cemerick	Nevermind, all views are lazy, and lazy-view-seq is used implicitly all the time :-P
09:12	cemerick	There's no slurping going on
09:12	cemerick	Notice the use of read-lines
09:14	pandeiro	cemerick: ah right so it gets the inputstream
09:15	pandeiro	cemerick: so there's not as much need to use limit= with large datasets, since clutch is doing that, would you agree?
09:15	cemerick	pandeiro: I wouldn't say that. Who knows what optimizations are being done server-side for small- or large-limit GETs
09:16	pandeiro	ok i see
09:16	gfredericks	lein deps :tree shows no snapshots, though my project was itself a snapshot
09:16	cemerick	that may be enough…?
09:17	gfredericks	okeedokes
09:20	wingy	im trying to make a template with dynamic vars
09:20	wingy	https://www.refheap.com/paste/5429
09:20	wingy	i want the title to be "The best app" but it shows "App" which is the root binding
09:20	wingy	what have i done wrong?
09:21	gfredericks	wingy: layout is only defined once
09:21	gfredericks	you'd have to make it a function that you call each time
09:21	wingy	okay
09:22	wingy	gfredericks: wohoo thx
09:25	gfredericks	~woohoo
09:25	clojurebot	Huh?
09:25	wingy	gfredericks: but isn't that going against FP? perhaps I want to pass the locals to the layout function instead?
09:25	wingy	than having it relying on global variables
09:25	gfredericks	wingy: sure, dynamic variables are not a pure-functional technique
09:25	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
09:26	wingy	ok
09:26	gfredericks	we have them for convenience because clojure is not haskell; use with care
09:26	wingy	cool
09:26	wingy	simpler to test if functions are pure
09:26	gfredericks	absolutely
09:29	gfredericks	error handling in cljs: can I throw and catch arbitrary objects (like maps)?
09:33	gfredericks	I think so
09:38	Cheiron	hi, for a clojure project created with lein. how to know that lib.jar is needed by dependency y ? the lib folder is full of tens of jars and not sure how to check
09:39	gfredericks	Cheiron: with lein 2 you can `lein deps :tree`
09:40	gfredericks	otherwise if you have maven installed you can `lein pom && mvn dependency:tree`
09:40	gfredericks	deps :tree might work with lein 1 as well; worth a try
09:40	gfredericks	I didn't quite understand your question so I hope that answers it
09:41	casion	anyone here used ocaml extensively? I'm curious what a clojure user thinks of ocaml
09:42	Cheiron	gfredericks: i'm getting SLF4J: The requested version 1.6 by your slf4j binding is not compatible with [1.5.5, 1.5.6, 1.5.7, 1.5.8] and need to know why
09:43	gfredericks	Cheiron: well the dependency tree should help that
09:43	Sgeo	(Working in a group, I'm Lead Builder but others are expected to contribute)
09:43	casion	Sgeo: I know 3 other people here doing similar
09:43	gfredericks	Sgeo: but they won't end up contributing so it doesn't matter
09:43	casion	one of which is doing it in a group for a java class
09:45	Sgeo	hmm
09:47	TimMc	Sgeo: Do any of the others know Clojure? How about Java?
09:48	TimMc	and other FP langs?
09:48	Sgeo	None of the others know Clojure. They probably know Java, but I haven't asked. I don't think they know other FP languages, but haven't asked. Wait, does Javascript count as an FP language, because if so, then probably.
09:53	unic0rn	i guess it mostly depends on what kind of programmers they are. clojure isn't that complicated after all. knowing java api helps though.
09:54	Cheiron	i'm having slf4j error because many libs are using different logging libs, what should i do? :/
09:54	wingy	simple, not easy!
09:54	wingy	not node.js!
09:54	wingy	clojure!
09:55	wingy	whats funny is where i needed libs i need only clojure now
09:57	kyptin	Hey folks, I'm having trouble with the file binding. Seems to work when I run a file (using "lein exec") but not when I run a test (with "lein test"). Has anybody had issues with this before?
09:58	kyptin	I'm having a devil of a time searching the web about this because I can't get Google to match literal asterisks.
10:01	wingy	how do i tell hiccup to not compress the output?
10:01	kyptin	Alternatively, is there a way to access the project's root directory from within code?
10:02	kyptin	(Or can I depend on the working directory always being the project's root?)
10:03	chouser	kyptin: file is probably only set to something useful during compile time
10:05	chouser	hm, and you want the project's root? Will this only ever be run by lein in the source directory, or do you want the path to your project's jar when it's being used as a lib?
10:06	kyptin	chouser: Thanks for your help. I'm currently only using this with lein, but I may want to do a jar later. Something that works for lein only would still be helpful for now, though.
10:06	pandeiro	why can my repl get (source io/file) but (io/as-file) returns Source not found ?
10:07	pandeiro	(source io/as-file) that is
10:07	kyptin	chouser: I may be missing something, but I think I'm OK with file only being set during compile time--but wouldn't that mean I should get some value for file, instead of just "NO_SOURCE_PATH"?
10:07	chouser	well, lein run will cd to your project's root, so you could use cwd for that. not sure what to do in the jar case.
10:07	kyptin	OK, well, that's good to know that that should be a dependable feature. Thanks!
10:08	chouser	I'm not actually sure it's possible for a .clj or .class file to know what path it was loaded from.
10:10	chouser	If you look at file from inside a function that's being run at run time, it will have no useful value. You could try saving its value from inside a macro instead.
10:10	kyptin	chouser: Hmm, interesting idea, about the macro. I will try that!
10:12	chouser	pandeiro: as-file is a protocol function, so doesn't have a single definition the way io/file does.
10:13	kyptin	chouser: Brilliant! Still not sure why it worked, but the macro idea did it.
10:13	kyptin	For reference, here's the macro: (defmacro get-file [] (let [f# file] `(str ~f#)))
10:13	kyptin	Thanks very much!
10:15	chouser	kyptin: it works because that macro is run at compile time, when the compiler is still working on your file and therefore has set file appropriately. And your macro returns a string which is essentially substituted into the code as just that string, so that at runtime that string can be used.
10:15	jcromartie	where are protocols preferred over multimethods?
10:15	chouser	maybe that explanation didn't help after all. :-/
10:15	jcromartie	are multimethods basically outdated?
10:15	wingy	jcromartie: not last time i checked
10:15	chouser	jcromartie: when performance matters enough to warrant the loss of flexibility provided by protocols.
10:16	jcromartie	ah
10:16	wingy	multimethods are more powerful than protocols
10:19	the-kenny	But slower
10:19	kyptin	chouser: I get the macro part, and that macros are expanded at compile time. I think the thing I don't understand is why file wouldn't be resolved in a function. Is there not a compilation step for a file full of regular functions?
10:21	chouser	sure, but regular functions aren't run then. So you reg fn is compiled along with its reference to file, but the value of file isn't used until later. When the reg fn is called, the value of file is fetched but usually compilation is all done by then and there's no useful value left.
10:23	kyptin	Oh. Right. That makes sense. Thanks!
10:23	chouser	ah good, np.
10:23	kyptin	I'm still surprised that there's no useful value left, but I'm content now that I have my macro workaround.
10:24	chouser	well, you wouldn't want the value of file to be changed every time a fn from one file called a fn from a different file, right? That'd be substantial overhead for a simple fn call
10:28	kyptin	Ah! Indeed, that would be a lot of overhead! Now I think I understand. Thanks for your patient explanations. :-)
10:29	casion	thorbjornDX: ##(map (fn [x] (let [n (last x)] [(dec n) n])) (partition-all 2 (range 5))
10:30	casion	thorbjornDX: for some reason I just thought of that regarding your question last night
10:30	kyptin	chouser: BTW, I think it would be useful to capture this knowledge on StackOverflow. Would you like me to send you a link after I write up the question? If you write up what you explained here, I'll accept your answer.
10:33	ssedano	Hi, I know this is a subjective question. But to work with vim, is it better vimclojure + ng, slimv + swank, slimv + ritz, or vimclojure + (slimv + [] for repl)?
10:34	wingy	how do you guys handle localization in clojure (using compojure/hiccup)?
10:35	the-kenny	wingy: We read .po via jgettext into a gigantular clojure map, mapping locales to maps mapping namespace-prefixed keywords to strings
10:35	the-kenny	Pretty simple but enough for our use case
10:37	wingy	the-kenny: im not familiar with .po files .. what are the benfits of using .po files and using yaml
10:37	wingy	or even regular clojure data types
10:38	the-kenny	wingy: I'd have used normal Clojure Maps. But management wanted some "standard" file format
10:38	wingy	okay
10:38	wingy	well sounds simple .. ill try with regular maps
10:40	djanatyn	is there any way to get a list of all currently doing-stuff agents?
10:41	djanatyn	I just realized that my threads never die and my agents are off on missions they will never return from
10:46	kyptin	djanatyn: Dunno about agents, but I'm using futures and saving a reference to each future in the master thread, so that I can later call `future-cancel` on it if I need to.
10:46	djanatyn	that's a great idea! thank you.
10:48	dgrnbrg	Does anyone have experience with seesaw/swing's canvas? I keep trying to draw to the canvas, but I can't get anything to paint. I'm sure it's something I'd forgetting to do--I am putting the canvas in a border panel in a frame, if that helps
10:48	wingy	no probs having translation files as maps
10:51	duck1123	.war huh. good god y'all. What is it good for?
10:51	Sgeo	eww xml :(
10:51	nDuff	Sgeo: Roughly, a zip-based format specific to web applications, which an appropriate container (Tomcat, Jetty, etc) can automate deploying.
10:51	the-kenny	Mostly like a jar
10:51	the-kenny	If you want to generate one from a ring application, use the excellent lein-ring plugin :)
10:52	kyptin	djanatyn: you're welcome.
10:53	wingy	we devs are the managers, the engineers and the sellers
10:54	chouser	kyptin: sure, if you'd like
10:55	chouser	ssedano: emacs+evil+paredit+(slime or nrepl)
10:55	dustingetz	.war is kind of like .exe for java web applications. its a standardized format for deploying to an application server (which is basically a http server with some fancy features). there's some XML because it was standardized ten years ago, but its mostly all hidden, its not painful in practice or anything and some tools generate it for you
10:55	dustingetz	java -> jam, including clojure, scala etc
10:55	dustingetz	jvm*
10:56	dustingetz	duck 1123 ^
10:56	dustingetz	duck1123 ^
10:56	kyptin	chouser: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12692698/file-variable-not-working
10:57	wingy	do you guys agree that the power will lie in the devs tomorrow?
10:58	casion	wingy: I think you want #programming
11:00	ssedano	chouser: thanks for the reply, but I really feel confortable with vim.
11:01	chouser	ssedano: me too. evil has a very large percentage of vim bindings and colon-commands available. Much more than earlier attempts like viper.
11:01	sspooner	cemerick - would you be interested in pulling in a patch to move bandalore to the newest version of the aws-java-sdk?
11:01	djanatyn	This is str5ange.
11:01	djanatyn	I'm using quil, and I have a function to draw an agent.
11:01	ssedano	thanks chouser!
11:02	djanatyn	(draw-blob blob1) (draw-blob blob2) does what I want to do.
11:02	cemerick	sspooner: I just committed a change to that effect this morning; the new release is pending a maven central sync.
11:02	djanatyn	(map draw-blob [blob1 blob2]) doesn't.
11:02	djanatyn	in fact, when I map the draw, neither of the blobs get rendered.
11:02	sspooner	cemerick: perfect, thank you
11:03	cemerick	Watch the twitters for an announcement of when it's available for use. :-)
11:03	djanatyn	Why would that be the case?
11:03	djanatyn	shouldn't (map fn [foo bar baz]) always be equivalent to (fn foo) (fn bar) (fn baz)?
11:05	kyptin	djanatyn: More like (list (fn foo) (fn bar) (fn baz)).
11:06	scriptor	djanatyn: because map is lazy
11:06	djanatyn	ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
11:06	scriptor	it won't evaluate immediately
11:07	scriptor	you'll probably want doseq
11:07	djanatyn	is there a strict version of map that returns nil and is only used for side effects?
11:07	djanatyn	do I want doseq or dotimes?
11:07	djanatyn	oh, I totally misunderstood what dotimes does
11:08	scriptor	(doseq [blob [blob1 blob2]] (draw-blob blob)) should be what you need
11:08	djanatyn	:D
11:08	djanatyn	it rendered all the blobs for the first time
11:11	redline6561	Hi. Will leiningen automatically load any JARs in the lib/ folder?
11:13	duck1123	redline6561: you really are better off installing any jars you need into a repo if they're not already in one
11:13	redline6561	I do not have legal rights to do so.
11:13	duck1123	there are ways to make loose jars work, but they're usually more hassle then they're worth
11:14	nDuff	redline6561: Not even in your local ~/.m2/ repo under your home directory?
11:14	chouser	kyptin: answered.
11:14	redline6561	I haven't tried putting it there. I was under the impression that I could put loose jars in lib/ and "lein repl" would ensure they were on the classpath.
11:15	nDuff	redline6561: ...so, there are Maven commands to automate populating ~/.m2 -- populating it by hand isn't so much the Right Thing -- but yar, that impression isn't accurate for lein2
11:15	nDuff	(intentionally so, to encourage reproducible builds)
11:15	redline6561	Drat!
11:15	redline6561	Thanks nDuff.
11:18	kyptin	chouser: accepted; thanks again!
11:59	DrDave	I have what looks like a Clojure bug: Equal objects that behave differently as arguments
11:59	DrDave	Where can I paste the code?
12:00	babilen	DrDave: Could you paste an example to http://refheap.com please?
12:01	DrDave	babilen: Thanks, https://www.refheap.com/paste/5440
12:02	nDuff	DrDave: It'd be interested if you provided enough to reproduce.
12:02	nDuff	err, interesting
12:03	DrDave	nDuff: If you like, but it's a lot
12:03	nDuff	DrDave: ...can't generate a minimal reproducer?
12:04	babilen	DrDave: You might still want to paste a maximally minimal example ;) -- That way we can play with it.
12:04	nDuff	DrDave: ...generally speaking, having a trimmed-down reproducer is fairly essential to being able to file a ticket against Clojure upstream, if it does turn out to be an actual bug.
12:05	DrDave	babilen, nDuff: I'll just paste all. I'm in a time crunch. Feel free to ignore.
12:11	jcromartie	DrDave: the suspense is killing me
12:12	DrDave	babilen, nDuff, jcromartie: OK trimmed as much as possible, https://www.refheap.com/paste/5441
12:13	nDuff	graci.
12:13	jml	is there something like a map-values function built-in to clojure? Something that takes a function and applies them to all the values of a map, e.g. (defn map-values [f m] (into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [k (f v)]) m)))
12:15	DrDave	nDuff: I don't have equal?, but xxx and yyy are not identical?.
12:15	chouser	DrDave: how are xxx and yyy created?
12:15	jcromartie	DrDave: yeah xxx and yyy are the curios bits
12:16	DrDave	(def xxx (eliminate-all-implications '(not (not p))))
12:17	DrDave	(def yyy '(not (not p)))
12:17	jcromartie	oh I see
12:17	jcromartie	I reproduced it by using a quoted list for xxx and cons to create yyy
12:18	jcromartie	the problem is "list?"
12:18	Sgeo	,(list? (cons 1 '(2 3))
12:18	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
12:18	Sgeo	,(list? (cons 1 '(2 3)))
12:19	clojurebot	false
12:19	jcromartie	or, convert the result of apply-at-all-levels to a list, instead of the lazy seq returned by cons
12:19	jcromartie	or don't use list?
12:20	DrDave	Should I use seq? ?
12:21	jcromartie	I'm not sure what's best: use a broader predicate, or be consistent with returning lists when generating code
12:21	DrDave	jcromartie: I did not know that about cons.
12:21	jcromartie	yeah, it's lazy :)
12:21	chouser	cons isn't lazy
12:21	DrDave	What is the simplest fix?
12:22	chouser	will sequential? work here?
12:22	jcromartie	er, right, sorry it's not lazy it just returns a seq that's not a list
12:22	jcromartie	,(type (cons 1 nil))
12:22	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList
12:22	jcromartie	wut
12:22	Sgeo	,(list? (cons 1 nil))
12:22	clojurebot	true
12:23	jcromartie	,(type (cons 1 '(2 3)))
12:23	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Cons
12:23	chouser	nil is special
12:23	jcromartie	there we go
12:23	chouser	:-)
12:24	jcromartie	DrDave: I guess the simplest fix is seq? instead of list?
12:24	Sgeo	,(seq? {})
12:24	clojurebot	false
12:24	Sgeo	Hmm, are there any lazy maps?
12:25	Frozenlock	How does one use the wildcard for java import in clojure? (import 'java.awt.event.*) throws an error.
12:25	jcromartie	DrDave: actually, since you only use cons in one place, you can replace it with (apply list (cons …)) and that's only one chaneg
12:25	jcromartie	but you still have brittle code, say, if you feed it another kind of seq from somewhere else
12:26	jcromartie	so, simple vs robust? your choice
12:26	DrDave	Thanks, using seq? throughout instead of list? solves the problem
12:26	DrDave	Many thanks from a Clojure newbie!
12:26	TimMc	&(map (juxt sequential? associative?) [(cons 1 nil) (cons 1 '(2 3)) [4 5] {6 7} #{8}])
12:26	lazybot	⇒ ([true false] [true false] [true true] [false true] [false false])
12:28	TimMc	What you really want is #(and (sequential? %) (not (associative? %))) I guess.
12:28	TimMc	(defn listy? ...)
12:29	Sgeo	,(sequential? {})
12:29	clojurebot	false
12:29	Sgeo	Oh, the not associative for vectors?
12:30	Sgeo	,((juxt sequential? associative?) [])
12:30	clojurebot	[true true]
12:33	djanatyn	when creating records, is there a way to manually specify each value, instead of just putting them in order?
12:33	djanatyn	I'm using hashes and I'm starting to wonder whether using records would be a better idea
12:34	nDuff	djanatyn: map->YourRecordClass
12:34	djanatyn	oh, cool.
12:35	Sgeo	nDuff, where is that documented?
12:35	wingy	is get-in best for accessing nested keys?
12:35	wingy	in a map
12:36	chouser	wingy: yep
12:36	wingy	cool
12:36	Sgeo	Oh, I see it in the examples
12:36	Sgeo	for defrecord
12:41	Sgeo	Can someone please explain to me why -> is used with Seesaw?
12:41	Sgeo	Wouldn
12:41	Sgeo	Wouldn't it make more sense for (pack! some-frame) to return nil and not the frame since it
12:41	Sgeo	since it's side-effecting?
12:43	joegallo_	Sgeo that just sounds like a difference of opinion. It seems to me like the author decided to use the method chaining type approach of having all nil return types instead be "this" so that you could chain with ->.
12:43	joegallo_	if you don't like that, you can use doto and pretend that the author didn't do that.
12:46	thorbjornDX	casion: that works too :) (re: your partition-all fn)
12:50	wingy	i have a file in my app folder /app/sv-SE.clj .. and in my main file i added (:use app.sv-SE) … however it cannot find that file
12:50	wingy	it says it cannot find it on class path or the init file
12:50	wingy	any clue how to make it work?
12:51	nDuff	wingy: for one, your filename should have underscores where the namespace has dashes.
12:52	nDuff	(silly, yes, but well, it's Java)
12:52	wingy	i c
12:52	wingy	yeah you could see that on the error message
12:52	wingy	thx
12:53	mmitchell	anyone know of a good java/clojure library for adding a buffer to a bounding box?
12:53	casion	thorbjornDX: I was just sitting here and it came to me, somewhat odd :)
13:00	Sgeo	If I want to have a mutable reference to a map which itself contains mutable references, would refs probably be best for that?
13:01	chouser	yes
13:01	chouser	all refs
13:02	chouser	or, with some care, refs and agents. But do not include atoms unless you actually mean to be asking for pain.
13:05	wingy	if there is a choice would you have clojure not running on jvm but on its own like node.js?
13:05	chouser	you can compile cljs to js and run it on node.js
13:06	casion	how does node.js run on its own?
13:06	wingy	c
13:07	nDuff	wingy: Was that meant to be an answer?
13:07	nDuff	wingy: node.js runs on v8. V8 is written in C, sure, but so is the JVM.
13:08	Sgeo	Although, I assume that V8 is small enough that it can just be shipped with the application in question usually?
13:08	nDuff	wingy: Point being, V8 does a lot of runtime optimizations... just as does the JVM.
13:08	Sgeo	The JVM tends to need to be installed
13:08	nDuff	Sgeo: shrug. I've seen apps bundle it.
13:08	Sgeo	o.O
13:08	nDuff	(mostly insane ones -- see Oracle for an example -- but still).
13:08	casion	Sgeo: that doesn't change how it's "running on its own"
13:08	wingy	v8 is fast .. jvm is slow as hell to startup
13:08	nDuff	wingy: Sure, but that's a matter of design priorities.
13:09	casion	assuming it is… I still don't get how that makes sense
13:09	nDuff	wingy: ...the JVM was designed for throughput foremost. V8 was designed for interactive use.
13:09	wingy	yepp
13:09	Sgeo	But wouldn't Applets work better with a faster startuo time?
13:09	nDuff	wingy: ...frankly, for a lot of things Clojure is used for, the focus on throughput makes sense.
13:09	Sgeo	So why wasn't startup time a priority back when people believed that applets mattered?
13:09	nDuff	Sgeo: Because the JVM sucked back then.
13:09	wingy	nDuff: throughput meaning like server things?
13:09	casion	Sgeo: afaik, it was
13:10	nDuff	Sgeo: ...these days they're actually good at the things they want to be.
13:10	casion	it was significantly worse 'back then'
13:10	casion	and from my reading of history the main impetus to reduce startup time was the applet producing communities
13:10	nDuff	wingy: Sure. Though, granted, the Erlang runtime still kicks the JVM's butt on some subsets of that.
13:13	scriptor	someone did make a lisp similar to clojure running on the erlang vm a bit back
13:14	redline6561	Interesting. I would have expected lein repl to require all namespaces under src/ for my project.
13:14	wingy	joxa
13:14	redline6561	Is there a way to get such behavior and/or why are my expectations wrong?
13:15	wingy	ok good to know .. seems that jvm is a good choice
13:16	nDuff	wingy: ...the ecosystem is also a very, very big part of that. The universe is littered with good languages that are useless in the real world because there aren't libraries available for them.
13:16	wingy	yeah
13:16	kirindave	Modulo the need for an ecosystem
13:16	kirindave	You don't see people complaining about forth's lack of a json parser, for example. :)
13:17	wingy	thats why node.js was a huge success .. the ecosystem was huge on frontend and it was doable on backend
13:17	wingy	also for other reasons
13:17	kirindave	It "was" a huge success?
13:17	wingy	is
13:17	kirindave	It is a "huge success?"
13:17	wingy	HUGE
13:17	kirindave	#define "huge success" "shared delusion."
13:17	wingy	in popularity
13:18	kirindave	Yes. I suppose.
13:18	kirindave	Sadly.
13:18	wingy	nah
13:18	wingy	promotes JS .. makes the browsers faster .. cheer up
13:18	Sgeo	CPS in JS has to be written manually :(
13:19	kirindave	Javascript is easily the most frustrating, awkward, poorly defined language we have at our disposal. It's also frightfully difficult.
13:19	wingy	i think cljs was influenced by node.js/coffeescript
13:19	technomancy	heh
13:20	wingy	when you have 10 days to make a lang for your boss .. you get JS
13:20	kirindave	technomancy: Did you see that conversation Nathan Marz and Ben Black had about intuition? I'm still trying to figure out why it worries me.
13:20	technomancy	I don't think so?
13:21	kirindave	technomancy: Backtrack in convo from http://twitter.com/b6n/status/252993377694535680 if you care to
13:25	casion	it would seem that clojurescript existed before coffeescript or node.js
13:25	technomancy	kirindave: well, abstractions are appealing, I guess.
13:26	technomancy	you don't want to have to think about lower layers, and sometimes you can even get away without doing so.
13:26	technomancy	but usually once you realize you do have to understand them it's too late
13:27	kirindave	technomancy: I just think this is a great example of the same sort of thinking that underlies the "I'm not an apple fanboy" phenomenon.
13:27	kirindave	Or the "I am just trying to get shit done" phenomenon.
13:28	kirindave	In which anything beyond what _I_ want to do is unreasonable, but what I already know I want to do is perfectly justified. ;)
13:28	kirindave	(cannot believe I am mentioning a Gruber meme)
13:28	dgrnbrg	technomancy: I sometimes find that when I'm working on a plugin, if I try to (update-in project [:dependencies] conj [my-lib "0.0.1"]) in the task, the lib isn't downloaded/included in the path, but if I do the same thing just before eval-in-project, it adds the extra dependency. Is there something I'm missing w/ the way lein uses the project map that causes it to be reset if I add the dependency "too early"?
13:28	technomancy	http://wondermark.com/333/
13:29	kirindave	technomancy: Damn.
13:29	kirindave	Amazong.
13:30	technomancy	dgrnbrg: yeah, it's an unfortunate side-effect of not being able to un-apply profiles
13:31	technomancy	if you express your dependency in terms of adding a profile it should be preserved
13:31	dgrnbrg	technomancy: I have a plugin that apply-tasks to another plugin, that apply-tasks to a final plugin
13:32	dgrnbrg	so I could add a new profile to the project, and then add that to the active profiles for the project, and then it should carry through?
13:33	dgrnbrg	or should I just require that the plugin's runtime injected dependency must be specified in addition to the plugin?
13:33	dgrnbrg	(which I don't like)
13:38	dgrnbrg	technomancy: is it possible for a plugin to create a new profile for itself in order to ensure the dependencies it adds to the project stick around?
13:38	technomancy	dgrnbrg: yeah, that would be the way to do it
13:42	dgrnbrg	technomancy: so i'll need to add my dependencies to a newly gensymed profile, then i'll use set-profiles to add the new profile, and then I can pass along that project map to the subtasks?
13:43	jcromartie	mmitchell: what do you mean by "buffer" and "bounding box"
13:44	mmitchell	jcromartie: sorry yeah, should've added more context there. I'm talking about geo-spatial objects. I think the open-source "JTS" library will do exactly what I'm looking for.
13:44	jcromartie	cool
14:05	aaelony	I'd like to key a sorted set of keys. (into #{} (keys {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3})) gives me a set #{:a :c :b}, and (sorted-set-by <) gives me #{}, but when I try to combine the two i get a cast exception. (into (sorted-set-by <) (keys {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3})) ClassCastException clojure.lang.Keyword cannot be cast to java.lang.Number clojure.lang.Numbers.lt (Numbers.java:219) Any way around this?
14:06	ohpauleez	aaelony: You can just use (sorted-set), no?
14:06	ohpauleez	I'm drawing a blank, maybe someone can job my memory - I have a vector ["a" "b" "c" "d"], I want to know the next element after a given element (say "b"); nil if at the end of the list
14:06	aaelony	ohpauleez: acutally I'd like sorted-set-by with a "<"
14:07	amalloy	&(second (drop-while (complement #{"b"}) ["a" "b" "c" "d"]))?
14:07	lazybot	⇒ "c"
14:07	ohpauleez	nvm on my question - nthrest gives me what I need
14:07	ohpauleez	amalloy: Ahh that's nice too
14:07	aaelony	it's more clear here: https://www.refheap.com/paste/5443
14:10	callen	I really wish more projects were documented like this: http://sqlkorma.com/docs
14:10	aaelony	seems odd
14:12	scriptor	not really a fan of the color scheme
14:12	callen	nDuff: why?
14:12	nDuff	...for one thing, there are a ton of macros, so not everything works everywhere
14:12	nDuff	and the docs don't cover which things are what.
14:13	nDuff	also, it's very, very hard to extend for database-specific syntax
14:13	nDuff	if you want to add a clause into a programatically-generated statement, it often can't be done, and you have to provide the whole thing yourself.
14:15	nDuff	callen: anyhow, after spending many, many hours fighting korma, I gave up and wrote my own, and am much happier with it.
14:15	dustingetz	nDuff: github link?
14:16	nDuff	dustingetz: Unreleased. Implements only as much as I personally need and nothing more, so it probably wouldn't be useful to anyone else.
14:17	dustingetz	its quite useful to see what things other people find useful, would love to see it if you ever reconsider
14:18	callen	nDuff: what do you prefer?
14:18	callen	nDuff: the one you wrote?
14:19	nDuff	Haven't looked at the other public ones.
14:19	callen	that's odd. writing your own before having looked at alternatives, and then still not releasing it?
14:19	nDuff	If there's something with no macros that's easier to extend for custom syntax, that might be sane.
14:19	callen	nDuff: are you a Forth programmer?
14:19	nDuff	Heh.
14:19	callen	nDuff: clearly you know what I'm referring to, even if you aren't.
14:19	ToBeReplaced	I'm working through the enlive-tutorial at https://github.com/swannodette/enlive-tutorial and got stuck on this line:
14:19	ToBeReplaced	(def link-sel [[:.content (nth-of-type 1)] :> first-child])
14:20	ToBeReplaced	I think the syntax is confusing me; could someone explain what it is saying?
14:20	callen	I still find the Clojurian insistence on mixing frontend with code galling.
14:20	nDuff	callen: If I'm going to release something, I'm going to know the competitive field and have it be something actually worth using.
14:20	callen	nDuff: http://clojureql.org/examples.html this is, along with clojure.sql itself, the other main contender.
14:21	nDuff	callen: ...if I want to get something working for my immediate case RIGHT BLOODY NOW, and I can do that with less time spent than learning another 3rd-party library, well, of _course_ I'm going to do that.
14:21	nDuff	callen: nod; I use clojure.sql
14:21	dustingetz	callen: i think they take after the ruby community, there's a lot of ui/mt code mixed together. i think its due to the nature of html
14:21	nDuff	(err, "learning another 3rd-party library" including, of course, learning it well enough to extend it)
14:21	callen	I don't find it that difficult to learn to use other peoples' libraries, even ones with documentation written by psychotics.
14:21	dustingetz	if you can write an ajax single page app, no problems separating ui and mt
14:21	nDuff	callen: Using libraries is one thing. Extending them is sometimes another.
14:22	callen	dustingetz: I usually take a hybrid approach.
14:22	ro_st	so i know i can destructure maps in fn args when i know the key names
14:22	dustingetz	but if you want to pretender, or if you want to write a html app instead of single page ajax app, you don't have much of a choice but to complect your concerns
14:22	ro_st	but how do i get a map of all the keys passed to the fn?
14:22	callen	dustingetz: simple/plain per-page templates, but each template is an AJAX app of sorts.
14:22	dustingetz	prerender*
14:22	dustingetz	twitter talks about this, they had a single page app for a while with nice and clean code, it didn't work out because performance sucked on older browsers
14:22	ro_st	fn [& {:keys [*]}] sort of thing
14:22	dustingetz	they want to control performance thus they prerender
14:23	nDuff	callen: ...libraries can be easy enough to get started with, but then become difficult once one is committed (and trying to do difficult things).
14:23	callen	okay, re: complect -> http://i.imgur.com/hB7r9.png
14:23	ohpauleez	amalloy: Thank you for earlier, I like that much better than what I came up with
14:23	callen	nDuff: what were you trying to do with your SQL exactly?
14:23	dustingetz	hahaha nice link
14:23	dustingetz	callen
14:23	callen	dustingetz: it makes me twitch everytime a Clojure user uses that word.
14:23	dustingetz	why?
14:23	clojurebot	http://clojure.org/rationale
14:24	callen	dustingetz: it has more connection to plaiting and weaving than complexity.
14:24	callen	dustingetz: I took Latin and know the word from that origin.
14:24	dustingetz	half of clojure's value is it provides a common vocabulary to talk about how to solve problems
14:24	ro_st	ohpauleez: :-) do you know how to gather all the k/v args passed to an fn into a map?
14:24	callen	dustingetz: that's called a cult. Scientology has their own vocabulary too.
14:24	dustingetz	sees and all that stuff covabulary as a computer language, as well as spoken language
14:24	callen	dustingetz: stop misusing words just because our glorious leader decided to experiment in a presentation.
14:24	dustingetz	wtf, spellcheck
14:25	nDuff	callen: Using syntax that wasn't supported. INSERT OR REPLACE, BETWEEN ? AND ?, ? IN (?, ?, ...), etc.
14:25	ro_st	someone appears to be short on conjugals.
14:25	nDuff	callen: ...ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE...
14:25	callen	nDuff: why not add that functionality to the library?
14:25	nDuff	callen: ...building the queries by piping them through mutators (which didn't work at all, on account of being macros)...
14:26	ohpauleez	ro_st: (apply hash-map args)
14:26	zerokarmaleft	callen: ejackson has the best tongue-in-cheek usage of complect in his core.logic euroclojure talk
14:26	ro_st	nice! thanks
14:26	callen	nDuff: the hell were you trying to do?
14:26	ohpauleez	ro_st: welcome
14:26	callen	nDuff: what necessitates this sort of query grammar?
14:26	Frozenlock	Using Noir (or compojure I suppose), is there a way to conserve the POST uri in the address bar? I would like the user to be able to copy the address and send it to friends. As it is, the POST uri shown is the same as the GET one (no variable=value stuff). Should I use a redirect after the POST instead?
14:26	ro_st	obvious, now that you mention it, of course :-)
14:27	callen	Frozenlock: is this something you've done before in another web framework?
14:27	nDuff	callen: I could go into the details, but... why do you care? They're legitimate constructs, and any query builder worth its salt should support them, period.
14:27	Frozenlock	callen: No.
14:27	Frozenlock	You could call me a web virgin :)
14:27	callen	Frozenlock: what leads you to believe this is specific to Noir?
14:27	callen	oh, a web virgin. How apropos to what I'm talking about.
14:27	nDuff	...or, if they aren't supported, there should be an easy way to _make_ them supported.
14:27	callen	Frozenlock: have you read up on how POST works?
14:27	ro_st	Frozenlock: that's not possible. only GET queries are possible from a web browser address bar
14:28	callen	ro_st: shut the hell up, I'm trying to teach him something useful.
14:28	nDuff	Clojure has lots of ways to make that possible -- heck, protocols are as perfect a thing I could imagine for the purpose
14:28	callen	Frozenlock: POST methods in HTTP are supposed to modify things.
14:28	clojurebot	dakrone maintains clj-http
14:28	nDuff	...but Korma, of course, doesn't use them.
14:28	callen	Frozenlock: friends shouldn't be linking each other URIs that modify things.
14:28	callen	Frozenlock: they should be linking each other content that is a GET
14:28	ro_st	callen: i'll consider it :p
14:28	callen	Frozenlock: other verbiage, such as POST, PUT, PATCH etc are wrapped up in mutation and aren't designed for sharing. Intentionally so.
14:28	callen	Frozenlock: comprende?
14:29	nDuff	callen: ...if Korma supported protocol-based extension, I probably _would_ have extended it, rather than setting off alone.
14:29	Frozenlock	Awww. I was sure to have seen variable=value in some URI. Can a form be used with a GET method?
14:29	callen	Frozenlock: variable=value in the URI is GET
14:29	Frozenlock	Yes, what I wanted was simply impossible.
14:29	callen	Frozenlock: that's not the point, I'm trying to explain why what you want is wrongheaded.
14:29	nDuff	callen: ...but its design wasn't built to be readily extensible, and building something new was the lighter-weight approach than fixing it.
14:29	callen	nDuff: that's fair.
14:30	technomancy	c.j.jdbc isn't really even the right base abstraction to build on unfortunately
14:30	callen	technomancy: pretty sure he built on clojure.sql, not jdbc directly.
14:30	callen	technomancy: unless you mean to conflate the two.
14:31	technomancy	what's clojure.sql?
14:32	Frozenlock	callen: Simply PUT, I was using POST wrongly. I didn't intend to modify things. Rather just give the user some option on where to go next. For example, choose a date and press the button.
14:38	Frozenlock	Indeed the GET gives me the variable=value in the URI. This solves my problem, thank you very much :)
14:39	bruceadams	Frozenlock: cool! please be careful that the GET with parameters will behave well for someone that it is sent to.
14:40	Frozenlock	bruceadams: You mean not dependant uppon session information or something like that?
14:40	bruceadams	Frozenlock: exactly
14:57	technomancy	that's a neat trick: Wrong number of args (-1) passed to: conf$prefix
14:57	technomancy	how does one pass a negative number of args?
14:58	casion	overflow?
15:02	hiredman	technomancy: macros
15:02	technomancy	hiredman: yeah, the call is inside an unquote, but prefix isn't a macro itself.
15:03	hiredman	I imagine someone put in a "patch" to fix the arity exceptions to them by subtracting the implicit args or something
15:05	mefesto	anyone familiar with clojurewerkz/welle?
15:06	mefesto	i'm attempting to use the :if-none-modified option when storing a json doc but its not working for me
15:11	amalloy	technomancy: i haven't seen that one for like a year, but i remember it happening before. i can never figure out how to reproduce it
15:12	amalloy	definitely macro-related, but maybe the problem doesn't exist anymore on 1.4 or something
15:52	josteink	so
15:52	josteink	after a small break from the world of clojure, Im trying to do some stuff again
15:53	josteink	Im currently doing emacs24 + lein2 + nrepl
15:53	josteink	is that the current recommended setup for productive work, or has that been obsoleted as well? :P
15:53	SegFaultAX\|work	Or vim + vimclojure + lein2 :)
15:53	xeqi	that is the current recommended emacs setup
15:56	josteink	SegFaultAX\|work: me and vim dont get along too well :P
15:56	josteink	xeqi: thanks
15:57	josteink	clojure needs a site dedicated to keeping up to date on what is the recommended setup
15:57	josteink	seriously though: lots of obsolete docs out there
16:01	technomancy	the official docs are up to date
16:01	technomancy	it's just that for some reason everyone feels compelled to create their own unofficial unmaintained write-ups =\
16:02	duck11231	it's because the out of date docs are what they find first. After they decide that those docs suck, they decide to publish their own and the cycle continues
16:03	ivan	is there a way to gently stab people who use :use? I mean this mysterious (copy ...) in gloss/io.clj is horrible
16:04	nightfly_	Is there no centralized Clojure wiki like CL's cliki?
16:04	technomancy	heh, "gently stab"
16:04	juhu_chapa	technomancy: which are the official docs?
16:05	SegFaultAX\|work	technomancy: The clojure.org docs are pretty bad.
16:05	technomancy	nightfly_: not really, just dev.clojure.org, which you can't contribute to without signing paperwork
16:06	pandeiro	why is (:require ... :refer [...]) better than (:use ... :only [...]) ?
16:06	technomancy	SegFaultAX\|work: oh yeah, totally agreed. I meant for Emacs integration.
16:06	technomancy	juhu_chapa: I meant https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure
16:06	SegFaultAX\|work	Oh, I'll hush then.
16:06	Raynes	pandeiro: Because the former is more consistent, since require can do everything use can do.
16:07	Raynes	Unless you're trying to be backwards compatible with Clojure 1.3
16:07	pandeiro	so it's for semantic purity?
16:07	pandeiro	ahh it's only 1.4+?
16:08	juhu_chapa	technomancy: :O
16:08	devth	keep forgetting, what's a good way to turn [1 2] and [\a \b] into [[1 \a] [2 \b]]?
16:09	amalloy	~zip
16:09	amalloy	what the hell, clojurebot
16:09	ivan	don't use aleph perf with lamina perf. lamina perf is a total rewrite.
16:10	duck11231	I use both together just fine
16:10	devth	amalloy: ty
16:10	raek	devth: (map vector xs ys)
16:11	devth	raek: ah, nice
16:11	ivan	duck11231: did you try starting an HTTP server? gloss/io.clj uses `copy` and lamina perf doesn't have it
16:11	ivan	oh, maybe I need gloss 0.2.2 branch
16:12	nightfly_	technomancy: That's too bad
16:12	SegFaultAX\|work	,(map vector [1 2] [\a \b])
16:12	clojurebot	([1 \a] [2 \b])
16:12	SegFaultAX\|work	devth: ^
16:12	devth	SegFaultAX\|work: cool thanks
16:13	SegFaultAX\|work	devth: Zip isn't really a thing in Clojure because map is variadic.
16:13	duck11231	ivan: yeah, I'd check your deps. sounds like you have an old version in there somewhere
16:13	kencausey	Hello, I just updated my checkout of emacs from git and built it and now starter-kit-2.0.3/starter-kit-misc.el is choking because of (void-variable hippie-expand-try-functions-list)
16:14	devth	SegFaultAX\|work: makes sense. trying to get better at determining the right fn for the job.
16:17	brainproxy	in my project.clj I have `:resource-paths ["mydir" "resources"]`
16:17	brainproxy	w/ the idea that clojure.java.io/resource would then be able to find things under mydir/
16:18	brainproxy	but i guess that's not how it works
16:18	Raynes	That's exactly how it works.
16:18	raek	brainproxy: if you have a file in mydir/foo/bar.txt you should be able to access it via (io/resource "foo/bar.txt")
16:18	hiredman	resoure-paths are "roots"
16:18	brainproxy	ahhhh
16:18	brainproxy	thanks
16:19	brainproxy	that clears it up :)
16:20	sproc	Question: Why a NPE here? http://pastebin.com/1ySJdVtb
16:20	nDuff	sproc: In the future, would you mind using gist.github.com or refheap? pastebin.com is full of ads.
16:20	sproc	Err, not an NPE, a ClassNotFoundException
16:20	sproc	Sure.
16:21	sproc	https://gist.github.com/3823021
16:21	nDuff	sproc: You need a require
16:21	emezeske	sproc: You have not :use-d or :require-d or loaded clojure.java.shell
16:24	sproc	Thanks, working now.
16:27	sproc	Anyone used this "sh" function to run a piped command?
16:27	kencausey	I've worked around my above problem for now by modifying starter-kit-misc.el to check whether or not hippie-expand-try-functions-list is bound and if not set it to an empty list
16:28	nDuff	sproc: For anything even remotely interesting, I typically end up using conch.
16:30	nDuff	sproc: that said -- setting up pipelines is a shell operation; you can run (sh "sh" "-c" "foo \| bar") if you want to launch a shell and have it do the work, though there are very compelling reasons to consider that bad practice.
16:31	nDuff	...short summary: The JVM doesn't provide very good tools for doing that kind of thing.
16:32	Apage43	I only learned recently that you can'
16:32	Apage43	t even change the current working directory
16:37	technomancy	I'm actually coming around on that one
16:37	technomancy	seen too many pieces of Ruby code that makes bad assumptions about the current directory
16:43	hiredman	in this talk he references arguments about the exit code of the jvm, and if such a thing is meaningful http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Towards-a-Universal-VM
16:43	hiredman	still funny
16:44	technomancy	"if it's outside the JVM, then by definition it doesn't matter. I don't see why this isn't obvious." - JVM engineers
16:45	hiredman	technomancy: to be fair they seem to have done well with that attitude
16:46	technomancy	yes, but the same attitude killed smalltalk
16:47	wingy	how do you smash multiple strings together?
16:47	cemerick	technomancy: I think the JVM is past that at this point :-)
16:47	nDuff	wingy: (str "foo" "bar") is one way.
16:47	cemerick	wingy: That thing at CERN should be able to do it.
16:48	nDuff	wingy: (format "Reading %s, got %s" "foo" "bar") is another.
16:48	wingy	CERN?
16:48	wingy	nDuff: thx
16:48	hiredman	technomancy: that attitude correlates with the death of smalltalk
16:48	cemerick	wingy: They smash all sorts of things over there.
16:49	technomancy	hiredman: sure, I mean there were a host of causes of death
16:50	cemerick	There's a rev of jrocket that sat right on top of hypervisors IIRC…at that point, who cares what's outside of the JVM?
16:50	cemerick	Presumably, that's the endgame.
16:50	scriptor	wingy: European Center for Nuclear Research, CERN
16:50	scriptor	:p
16:50	wingy	:)
16:51	wingy	(str) will do
16:57	Raynes	cemerick: Congrats on properly namespacing your libs, dude! Must be a big win for you. I can't express how happy I am for you, man.
16:57	cemerick	wha?
16:57	Raynes	;)
17:00	Raynes	cemerick: I was referring to the halloway tweet.
17:00	technomancy	Raynes: it shows commitment. that you're not interested in handing it off to another maintainer down the road. =)
17:00	Raynes	technomancy: Whereas you and I are all but throwing projects at other people (including each other)?
17:01	brehaut	~rimshot
17:01	clojurebot	Badum, tish
17:01	cemerick	oh, that
17:01	cemerick	another dead horse on both sides :-P
17:04	callen	I don't really want to ask in an actual database channel because they have more religious fervor than a chapel, but if I'm generally growing tired of MongoDB for various reasons, but still want schema-free, what are my choices?
17:05	cemerick	callen: the faithful are everywhere ;-)
17:05	callen	I hate CouchDB with a fiery passion, Riak is poorly documented. The best options seem to be Cassandra, HBase, maybe Redis.
17:05	brehaut	postgresql
17:05	cemerick	brehaut: hey-o!
17:05	callen	brehaut: I said schemafree, and if you say hstore, I will stone you with a boulder.
17:06	technomancy	callen: 9.2 has json types
17:06	cemerick	callen: dude, you've got more fervor than all of #mongo put together
17:06	callen	technomancy: I'm familiar with postgresql, I'm not doing that.
17:06	callen	technomancy: I use PGSQL when I want a SQL database. Using a hammer for everything is a bad idea.
17:06	nickmbailey	cassandra could perhaps be an option if you are having scaling problems with mongo, no one runs a single node cassandra server
17:06	nickmbailey	same for hbase really
17:06	technomancy	even when other options are HBase, Casandra, and Redis?
17:07	callen	nickmbailey: that's kinda the point.
17:07	callen	nickmbailey: I'm wobbly on Redis because I don't have happy-feels about Sentinel's master election.
17:07	technomancy	hbase brings a ton of hadoop ecosystem goop into the picture
17:07	callen	HBase and Cassandra have a lot of attached drama from various angles. I hate maintaining hadoop clusters.
17:07	callen	and Cassandra is pretty heavy-duty.
17:07	nickmbailey	just making sure you weren't trying to replace your single node mongo install with cassandra or hbase
17:07	hiredman	there is always datomic
17:07	nickmbailey	:)
17:08	callen	hiredman: I don't use databases that belong to other people.
17:08	callen	and I can fake a triplet-store in most things. Also, Cassandra's timestamping and truth-merging works on the same principle, albeit without ever really exposing it.
17:08	technomancy	pretty sure hiredman isn't serious
17:08	hiredman	shrug
17:09	hiredman	I find datomic's architecture very compelling
17:09	emezeske	callen: You could always write your own db
17:09	ivan	I'm sure Datomic can make you something that runs on your dozen postgres instances
17:10	callen	emezeske: not exactly a time-saving maneuver, but I do have a pretty good idea of what an ideal database for the sorts I do would be.
17:10	callen	emezeske: it'd end up looking similar to the DataStax stuff.
17:10	technomancy	supposedly riak has gotten a lot more accessible recently
17:10	callen	technomancy: I really despise them for making master-to-master replication enterprise-only.
17:10	hiredman	very bad
17:10	callen	technomancy: I had a bad experience with it more recently than that.
17:11	technomancy	accessible, reliable, oss: pick any two?
17:11	callen	seemingly.
17:11	callen	Riak isn't too far from what I want, but there are a few critical issues
17:12	callen	first off, the per node performance is awful beyond my ability to articulate. Second off, its map-reduce is equally as useless as MongoDB's, third, the damned master-master/cross-cluster being enterprise-only.
17:12	jcromartie_	is there a HOF that reverses argument order?
17:12	cemerick	all databases are owned by someone in the end
17:12	lpvb	flip?
17:12	callen	the problem with half-assed map-reduce is that if they pretend aggregations are a solved problem, they absolve themselves of ever really solving the problem.
17:12	Raynes	cemerick: I'm putting that in the bible for this new religion I'm creating.
17:13	callen	10gen is starting to wake up to this, but Basho is unlikely to do so anytime soon because they're too busying hiring technical writers.
17:13	technomancy	"Just write a map/reduce function in erlang."
17:13	hiredman	(still funny)
17:13	cemerick	Raynes: will you be advertising in Popular Mechanics?
17:14	callen	I'm half-tempted to use ElasticSearch as a first-order datastore
17:15	callen	even though doing so is nuts.
17:15	mpan	I'm getting a divide by zero, but I've checked and the denominator isn't = 0
17:15	mpan	or is = not the correct condition?
17:15	hiredman	,(= 0 0.0)
17:15	clojurebot	false
17:15	mpan	er, what should I use then?
17:15	callen	is there a standard predicate for zero-ness?
17:15	mpan	and ouch
17:16	hiredman	,(zero? 0.0)
17:16	clojurebot	true
17:16	hiredman	,(zero? 0)
17:16	clojurebot	true
17:16	mpan	thanks
17:16	callen	there's your answer.
17:16	callen	,botsnack
17:16	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: botsnack in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
17:16	callen	hrm.
17:16	callen	the bot deserves better.
17:16	technomancy	the bot is a thankless wretch
17:16	technomancy	~botsnack
17:16	clojurebot	Thanks! Can I have chocolate next time
17:16	wunki	is there a way to figure out the filesize of a file which is uploaded and received through a stream?
17:16	technomancy	hm; I guess not entirely thankless
17:17	TimMc	callen: Try ~
17:17	TimMc	nvm
17:17	callen	has anyone here ever used ElasticSearch? it's pretty great.
17:17	brehaut	technomancy: http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1185/1367663969_5aae77760f.jpg
17:18	technomancy	callen: it really is
17:18	callen	technomancy: we use it a lot at my company, it replaced a custom NumPy algorithm.
17:19	callen	technomancy: it's sooooooo fast
17:19	callen	I just wish it was slightly better at durability, then I'd use it for everything :P
17:20	callen	durability isn't part of cap theorem
17:20	callen	I'm not talking about the fact that ES is AP
17:20	callen	I'm talking about the fact that it's very lackadaisical about wiping out indices and not being very careful about filesystem and protocol level merges.
17:21	callen	it's presumed to be a secondary point of contact for information.
17:45	ToBeReplaced	what is the canonical way to make trailing slashes 302 to the uri without it using ring and/or compojure?
17:46	ToBeReplaced	i see there was a function for it in compojure that seems to have been dropped; maybe the reason why it was dropped would be helpful?
17:52	emezeske	ToBeReplaced: Why do you need such a thing? /curiosity
17:53	ToBeReplaced	maybe i don't... i'm trying to step into webdev and google suggested it was standard practice to redirect one to the other
17:54	ToBeReplaced	at this point, i'm just walking through the clojure/ring/compojure/enlive/clojureql tool chain and picking small problems to see how to go about solving them
17:54	ToBeReplaced	would you recommend another direction?
17:55	emezeske	I've never heard of that as a standard practice, but that doesn't really mean anything
17:56	wingy	you think datomic can be used as a session store?
17:56	wingy	or is redis a better fit
17:56	cemerick	ToBeReplaced: /foo and /foo/ are completely distinct URIs; any redirection from one to the other is a service-specific convention
17:57	emezeske	ToBeReplaced: If you're just looking for an exercise, you could always make a little blog engine or shopping cart or something
17:58	ToBeReplaced	cemerick: right; so i'll contend that for my dummy case, joe-user browsing to site/login or site/login/ should be redirected to one of the two (lets say site/login), instead of receiving a 404 on one of them
17:59	cemerick	ToBeReplaced: I would personally handle such situations on a case-by-case basis
17:59	ToBeReplaced	i could add: (compojure.core/GET "/login/" [] (ring.util.response/redirect "/login"))
18:00	ToBeReplaced	interesting; okay... i'll go case by case for now until i understand better
18:00	ToBeReplaced	thanks to both of you
18:01	emezeske	ToBeReplaced: If you insist on doing it, that would be a typical implementation.
18:02	amalloy	https://github.com/4clojure/4clojure/blob/develop/src/foreclojure/ring.clj#L33 is also a not-crazy approach
18:02	emezeske	ToBeReplaced: (With the caveat that in production you'd probably handle that in your web server config, e.g. nginx.conf)
18:04	ToBeReplaced	amalloy: cool
18:07	ToBeReplaced	emezeske: thanks for that; being new in the web space means that i'm biting off more than i need to in some places and less than i need to in others
18:07	cemerick	emezeske: I've been hearing from more and more people that have stopped bothering with nginx, etc. given what CDNs give you these days.
18:08	emezeske	ToBeReplaced: Sure. I'm very opinionated, so take whatever I say with a wheelbarrow of salt, though.
18:09	emezeske	cemerick: Yeah, CDNs take care of the static serving stuff nicely.
18:09	emezeske	cemerick: I'd have a hard time exposing jetty or whatever directly, though
18:09	cemerick	There was an nginx loyalist in here a few days ago that was arguing otherwise. I'll add you to the tally. :-)
18:10	emezeske	I just see things like the slow loris attack and think that having a hardened layer between the outside and the inside is good
18:10	brehaut	wait. peopel are loyal to a _web server_‽
18:10	brehaut	tahts like being loyal to dirt
18:10	brehaut	useful yes, but its everywhere
18:10	Raynes	Don't be dissing my soil.
18:11	cemerick	brehaut: go talk to the hordes that have been buying food with apache sysadmin work for ~20 years :-P
18:11	brehaut	cemerick: well yeah, apache has job security ;)
18:12	brehaut	anyone with 800 lines of mod_rewrite goop isnt going to get the sack any time soon
18:13	emezeske	cemerick: Another advantage to something like nginx is that you can write your app such that it's oblivious to things like way-too-big POST data, etc, and enforce that at the webserver level
18:13	emezeske	cemerick: So the web server sort of acts like the gatekeeper and sanitizes things
18:14	djanatyn	wow! a multi-threaded, graphical program I wrote in clojure on windows works on my linux without any changes. That's really cool :)
18:14	mpenet	nginx has some nice tricks in its sleeve, like using it for failover between 2 jetty instances when doing deploys
18:14	mpenet	apache can probably do it, but nginx makes it way too simple
18:14	emezeske	mpenet: Aye, and trivial no-downtime configuration updates
18:15	mpenet	emezeske: yup
18:17	mpenet	lots of people also use it to apply caching to some REST ressouce/service (I think lanyard caches solr queries using nginx for instance), I am not too familiar with solr, maybe it is has that built
18:17	mpenet	in
18:18	mpenet	Again, it just makes it easy. It is probably not the best solution for that kind of thing though
18:18	emezeske	I guess realistically, most people should just deploy to something like Heroku and let them take care of the gritty details of the web server config... :)
18:20	cemerick	Indeed. I can't imagine I'm ever going to touch an nginx config file.
18:21	hiredman	I end up having to touch them everyonce and a while because nginx is fronting our jenkins and archiva at work
18:21	hiredman	and will decide to not let you deploy jars over a certain size sometimes
18:21	mpenet	Heroku is fine up to a point imho, when it gets too complex it seems to become quite costly
18:22	technomancy	nginx was such a breath of fresh air after apache config that my memories with it were uniformly positive
18:22	technomancy	(course that was in front of ruby mongrels c. 2008)
18:22	emezeske	technomancy: Oh hell yeah. nginx config is actually quite nice IMHO
18:22	mpenet	xml'ish config files :/
18:23	cemerick	the only one I never got to know was lighttpd
18:23	cemerick	ah, lighty, pylons, and kid :-P
18:24	mpenet	cemerick: kid the template language?
18:25	mpenet	cemerick: am I not the only person on earth who touched this thing back then
18:31	cemerick	mpenet: yup, I enjoyed it quite a lot
18:31	cemerick	Then it was abandoned for Genshi or whatever... :-\|
18:32	mpenet	for mako I think
18:33	cemerick	yeah, whatever it was
18:34	mpenet	I used to like it at the early days of TurboGears, I was just so used to xslt. But now... it feels so "complected" :)
18:35	cemerick	I never went in for TG. Pylons + WSGI all the way. :-)
18:36	djanatyn	how many agents with threads is okay?
18:36	djanatyn	In the thing I'm working on now, I'm making 100 agents and giving them all a task. is...is that okay?
18:37	hiredman	agents do not map 1:1 to threads
18:37	hiredman	agent actions are run on threads from two different thread pools depending on how the actions are dispatched
18:37	djanatyn	Oh, hmm. Does that mean using (Thread/sleep) doesn't guarantee that an agent will pause for that amount of time?
18:39	hiredman	djanatyn: it will
18:39	technomancy	it'll also clog the thread pool
18:40	djanatyn	what does clogging the thread pool mean?
18:41	hiredman	djanatyn: http://clojure.org/agents
18:44	doomlord	does clojure have anything like the haskell "where" construct (i figure that might look odd in prefix form)
18:49	amalloy	&(->> (+ x 1) (let [x 5]))
18:49	lazybot	⇒ 6
18:49	amalloy	but no, nobody uses that
18:50	emezeske	amalloy: You are sinister.
18:50	emezeske	doomlord: It would be trivial to write a defn-like macro that gave you a where clause. O_o
18:50	amalloy	why would it be defn-like?
18:50	hiredman	but don't, please
18:51	emezeske	amalloy: I think in Haskell that the where clause is part of the function definition syntax (but don't quote me on that)
18:51	emezeske	amalloy: I.e. it's not simply an expression that you can put anywhere you want
18:51	hiredman	I think it is part of the pattern matching syntax, which happens to be part of how you definie functions?
18:52	emezeske	hiredman: I think that's probably right
18:52	amalloy	yes, i think hiredman's got it there
19:08	awestholm1	Quick newbie question: I've got a macro to generate a korma query, and would like to be able to stick a wrapper around it to basically add some logic to the end of the generated code. Having a bit of trouble with that. Two questions: a) One approach is to collect the extra query bits as arguments to the macro and expand them into the code, but I don't see anything about conditional expansion inside
19:08	awestholm1	of a syntax quote - am I missing something? b) Is there a way to flat out wrap a macro? i.e., grab the generated code and splice my additional code into it, then execute it? Are there other, better options for solving this problem?
19:11	emezeske	,`(1 2 3 ~(if true 4 5) 5)
19:11	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5)
19:12	emezeske	,(let [x true] `(1 2 3 ~(if x 4 5) 5))
19:12	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5)
19:13	emezeske	Or maybe
19:13	emezeske	,(let [x true y [4 5 6]] `(1 2 3 ~@(if x y []) 5))
19:13	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 ...)
19:13	awestholm1	emezeske: facepalm simple. Thanks!
19:13	emezeske	awestholm1: ^ helpful at all?
19:13	emezeske	Sweet.
19:23	awestholm1	emezeske: Actually, spoke too soon. That get's me halfway there, but I really only want to unquote if true... otherwise I have a nil there that won't work in the expansion. Any ideas? tried `(1 2 3 ~(when false 'not here))
19:23	awestholm1	but that evaluates to (1 2 3 nil)
19:23	gfredericks	,`(1 2 3 ~@(when false '[not] []))
19:23	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
19:24	awestholm1	gfredericks: Perfect. Thanks!
19:24	gfredericks	np
19:31	Sgeo	Is it reasonable to run MySQL or Postgres in-memory?
19:31	Sgeo	If permanent storage is unlikely to be necessary?
19:32	emezeske	There just has to be a better IRC channel for that question.
20:01	callen	nDuff: another question, what is it you wanted to do that couldn't be done with raw and exec-raw? I find it unlikely that you needed the full generality of composing the verbiage.
20:01	callen	nDuff: the full generality and multiple composition layers are what made SQLAlchemy so horrible. Why would you want that for Clojure?
20:09	Frozenlock	Is there a way in compojure/noir to make a github-like directory path? For example, if the current URI is my-website.com/abc/project/id, I would like to have links to: <abc> / <abc/project> / <abc/project/id>.
20:11	cemerick	Frozenlock: you mean breadcrumbs? Lots of ways to do them, but all out of scope for compojure and noir.
20:11	cemerick	well, definitely out of scope for compojure; maybe noir has something baked in for them…?
20:12	Frozenlock	Ohhh that's the term! I might have a better in my searches then :)
20:13	amalloy	&(rest (reductions conj [] '(abc project id)))
20:13	lazybot	⇒ ([abc] [abc project] [abc project id])
20:14	Sgeo	&(reductions conj [] '(abc project id))
20:14	lazybot	⇒ ([] [abc] [abc project] [abc project id])
20:14	amalloy	combine with your function to create a link from a list of things, and tada?
20:15	Frozenlock	Indeed. I suppose getting the current URI is trivial; so simply separate the string at '/' and that's it.
20:16	Frozenlock	Thanks for the reductions function btw, I wasn't aware of it.
20:16	emezeske	Frozenlock: Well, presumably project and id are already passed as arguments to your route handler?
20:16	emezeske	Frozenlock: E.g. with a route like "abc/:project/:id"
20:16	Frozenlock	Yes
20:17	emezeske	So you don't need to parse the URI yourself
20:21	Frozenlock	I'm not sure I follow... In this case I would need to call the function and send it the argument myself? ---> (make-breadcrumbs project id). A function without arguments would be sexier (make-breadcrumbs)
20:21	Sgeo	How often is :as req or similar used in the [] things in Compojure's GET/POST/etc macros?
20:21	Sgeo	Is there another way, besides :as blah to access things such as session data?
20:23	gfredericks	how do you access session data using :as blah?
20:24	Sgeo	(:session blah) I think?
20:24	gfredericks	and your route looks like (GET "foo" {:as blah} ...)?
20:25	Sgeo	Hypothetically, like (GET "foo" [id foo bar :as blah] ...)
20:25	gfredericks	oh right
20:25	gfredericks	you can probably throw session in there
20:25	gfredericks	[id foo bar session]
20:27	thorbjornDX	##((fn group-by-2 [s] (if (even? (count s)) (partition 2 s) (conj (partition 2 (rest s)) (seq [(first s) (second s)])))) (range 13)
20:27	thorbjornDX	,((fn group-by-2 [s] (if (even? (count s)) (partition 2 s) (conj (partition 2 (rest s)) (seq [(first s) (second s)])))) (range 13)
20:27	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
20:27	thorbjornDX	,((fn group-by-2 [s] (if (even? (count s)) (partition 2 s) (conj (partition 2 (rest s)) (seq [(first s) (second s)])))) (range 13)) ;whoops
20:27	clojurebot	((0 1) (1 2) (3 4) (5 6) (7 8) ...)
20:28	thorbjornDX	casion: I actually don't care if the "duplicated" element is at the back or the front, and this method works for generic sequences (not just range)
20:29	gfredericks	that is a weird function
20:30	thorbjornDX	gfredericks: yep, it's basically a way of doing partition-all, but always returning groups of two elements (in this case it reuses the second element)
20:30	gfredericks	(seq [(first s) (second s)]) could be (take 2 s)
20:31	thorbjornDX	gfredericks: good catch, thanks
20:31	thorbjornDX	gfredericks: yeah, the (seq [vec]) felt a bit awkward
20:31	gfredericks	thorbjornDX: you probably could have left it as a vector without much trouble
20:31	hiredman	or called list
20:32	thorbjornDX	gfredericks: can you use 'apply on a vector?
20:32	gfredericks	sure
20:32	thorbjornDX	hiredman: hah, I always overlook simple things like that
20:32	gfredericks	,(apply + [1 2 3 4 5])
20:32	clojurebot	15
20:33	thorbjornDX	,(apply str {:a 'b :c 'd})
20:33	clojurebot	"[:a b][:c d]"
20:41	amalloy	(seq [(first s) (second s)]) isn't the same as (take 2 s) if s is empty
20:42	gfredericks	well s can't be empty in his code; but it could have 1 element
20:42	gfredericks	(def TAKE [n coll] (map #(nth coll %) (range n)))
20:42	amalloy	i haven't really been following along
20:48	thorbjornDX	I can constrain s to be two or more long (which actually makes sense in my application)
20:52	emezeske	gfredericks: Wonderful, huh?
20:52	gfredericks	emezeske: yo
20:52	gfredericks	woah wow
20:52	emezeske	haha
20:52	gfredericks	emezeske: I have a cljsbuild usage question
20:52	emezeske	Shoot.
20:53	gfredericks	I have two build configs, once for source and one for test
20:53	gfredericks	so the source paths are "src-cljs" and "test-cljs" respectively
20:53	gfredericks	works fine generally, except for the manner in which recompiles are triggered in watching mode
20:53	gfredericks	specifically if I update a source file, only the source build gets triggered
20:53	gfredericks	even though it obviously effects the test build
20:53	emezeske	Ah, yeah, that is not good
20:54	gfredericks	okay so I'm not just using it wrong?
20:54	emezeske	No, that's a shortcoming.
20:54	emezeske	I've been thinking about how to handle that (and other related) problems
20:54	gfredericks	no problem whatsoever, just checking
20:54	emezeske	There's some discussion on this issue: https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/issues/119
20:54	gfredericks	emezeske: thanks, as well as for the library in general :)
20:55	emezeske	TL;DR: I want to build a dependency tree and watch all of it for changes.
20:55	emezeske	gfredericks: Glad it's useful.
21:26	lazybot	⇒ =
21:36	cjfrisz	gfredericks: That one's gonna take me a second to grok
21:37	gfredericks	cjfrisz: ##(read-string "[=~]")
21:37	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: ]
21:38	gfredericks	cjfrisz: the ~ has special syntactic meaning, so it won't parse them within a symbol
21:38	gfredericks	though it conceivably could
21:39	devn	##(read-string "#=~")
21:39	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.
21:43	cemerick	is clojure.browser.dom just a sample? There's console logging all over it, but maybe that was accidentally left in at some point for debugging purposes?
21:44	emezeske	cemerick: I don't think anyone ever uses that
21:44	emezeske	cemerick: It's so incomplete
21:45	cemerick	hum
21:45	cemerick	helluva canonical ns…
21:46	cemerick	emezeske: don't be so cynical ;-)
21:47	emezeske	Haha, I kid, I kid. But it is a bit awkward to have something so half-baked in there
21:47	emezeske	I guess maybe it's good for simple little demos?
21:48	gfredericks	I'm using the chrome debugger on my cljs. It is quite a time.
21:48	gfredericks	in case anybody was wondering.
21:49	gfredericks	an interesting way to learn about cljs internals
21:51	cemerick	"quite a time"?
21:51	gfredericks	yeah; lots of careful reading through variable names like cljs.core.first.call(...)
21:51	gfredericks	have to distinguish those from the important function calls
21:52	cemerick	interesting: a file containing a namespace like foo-bar can be named foo-bar.cljs
21:52	gfredericks	yeah; I bet it just reads all the *.cljs files
21:53	emezeske	cemerick: Most of the time.
21:53	gfredericks	you could probably name the file anything :P
21:53	cemerick	gfredericks: no way :-P
21:53	emezeske	cemerick: Under some circumstances your file might be loaded via a (resource), in which case that will break.
21:53	cemerick	emezeske: most?
21:53	emezeske	I forget the exact circumstances.
21:53	cemerick	Surely it checks both, then?
21:54	emezeske	Also, that would break distribution of that code as a JAR (which may or may not bother you)
21:56	cemerick	huh, foo_bar.cljs works for me, but foo-bar.cljs doesn't…?
21:56	gfredericks	cemerick: isn't that the opposite of what you initially claimed?
21:57	emezeske	ClojureScript is still very JVM-ey, it load lots of stuff as Java resources, etc
21:57	cemerick	gfredericks: yeah, that was just based on noticing the dom-helpers.cljs file in the twitterbuzz sample
21:57	gfredericks	ah ha
21:58	emezeske	I think the hyphen will definitely work if the source file is in the source path passed to cljs.closure/build
21:58	emezeske	And only might work otherwise
21:58	emezeske	Same thing with just throwing all the source files in a toplevel directory (instead of making the dir structure match the ns structure like with Java)
21:59	cemerick	OK, hypens just don't work, at least from the REPL
21:59	cemerick	I'll bet the twitterbuzz stuff is just old enough to have benefited from early slop in the naming requirements.
22:02	gfredericks	cljs.core.pr_str(more) // "(nil)"
22:02	gfredericks	cljs.core.count(more) // 0
22:02	gfredericks	this is exciting!
22:07	cemerick	early days
22:07	Frozenlock	Is there many cljs app in the wild?
22:08	cemerick	Interesting, goog.dom.query appears to be a straight rip of dojo's $$
22:08	cemerick	docs and all, even
22:10	scottj	cemerick: rip off? it's a port and it acknowledges it
22:10	brehaut	man dojo. is that thing still around?
22:10	gfredericks	cljs.core.count and cljs.core.bounded_count disagree
22:10	cemerick	scottj: rip of, not rip off
22:11	cemerick	wasn't saying anything derogatory
22:11	scottj	cemerick: sorry, misread
22:11	cemerick	brehaut: in your cljs apps, yup ;-)
22:15	gfredericks	emezeske: how do I check what version of cljs I'm using?
22:18	scottj	gfredericks: in code or one-time? for latter, "ls lib/clojurescript*" maybe?
22:19	gfredericks	well I don't think lein2 uses /lib, and since cljsbuild is a plugin I don't think that applies anyhow
22:20	cemerick	gfredericks: you could use something like configleaf to drop the runtime/build-time project.clj file into one of your source-paths, and pick up version numbers from there
22:21	cemerick	I think there was discussion recently about adding a cljs-version var though.
22:21	cemerick	er, not-var. Whatever they're called. :-(
22:21	gfredericks	cemerick: well then; I guess I'll look for easier solutions first :) thanks
22:21	gfredericks	config property?
22:25	gfredericks	man I am seeing some weird stuff
22:26	gfredericks	anybody know where cljs.core/cons is defined?
22:27	gfredericks	oh nevermine it's declared and defined later
22:28	gfredericks	seq should always return nil when empty, right?
22:41	jimduey	For anyone interested in parallel core.logic.
22:41	jimduey	http://www.clojure.net/2012/10/02/More-core.logic/
22:52	jcromartie	how can I call a constructor using a class value
22:53	jcromartie	,(let [x String] (new x))
22:53	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unable to resolve classname: x, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
22:53	amalloy	jcromartie: reflection
22:55	jcromartie	thanks
22:55	amalloy	clojure.lang.Reflector will help a little; clojure.reflect might have some helper but i dunno
23:03	Sgeo	How feasible is long polling with default Ring stuff?
23:19	casion	anyone know offhand what the canonical version of enlive is?
23:22	xeqi	casion: https://clojars.org/enlive
23:23	casion	xeqi: thanks
23:32	Sgeo	Would I just use Aleph if I want to do that sort of thing?
23:51	jcrza	Is there a more recent version of the clojure box.. thing available?
23:51	jcrza	I'm a python/java noob and I want to get started with clojure
23:51	technomancy	pretty sure clojurebox is abandoned
23:52	jcrza	=(
23:54	technomancy	just grab leiningen, clojure-mode, emacs 24, and if you want to get fancy, nrepl.el
23:55	technomancy	clojurebox just mashes up old versions of those anyways
23:55	casion	emacs live is pretty good
23:56	jcrza	Are there any windows IDEs you'd recommend?
23:56	casion	you still need to install clojure and leiningen
23:56	jcrza	I borked my linux partition.. haven't bothered to fix it
23:56	technomancy	casion: not really
23:56	technomancy	I mean, not clojure
23:56	Sgeo	Is it reasonable to use gensym in runtime? For example, with add-watch?