#clojure – 2012-09-04

2012-09-04

02:48	AustinYun	can someone tell me what the target directory that leiningen creates does?
02:50	michaelr525	AustinYun: probably for compiled java classes, no?
02:51	AustinYun	oh
03:25	michaelr525	can i import symbols using (use) and rename them in the current namespace?
03:27	michaelr525	something like this (:use [clojure.string :only [split :as sp]])
03:29	tomoj	(:use [clojure.string :only [split] :rename {split sp}])
03:30	tomoj	see docs for use/require/refer
03:31	michaelr525	cool
03:31	michaelr525	:)
03:32	michaelr525	tomoj: i actually looked up the doc for use, but didn't read everything just skimmed over the examples and there is no example for rename :)
03:36	tomoj	I don't remember why I believe this, but I think :use :only is going out of style in favor of :require :refer
03:41	kral	namaste
03:47	michaelr525	tomoj: in :refer's docs I've seen this: "Use :use in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly."
03:49	michaelr525	err
03:49	michaelr525	it's written that use is like require+refer
03:51	michaelr525	what use does refer have without require?
03:52	hyPiRion	,(doc refer)
03:52	clojurebot	"([ns-sym & filters]); refers to all public vars of ns, subject to filters. filters can include at most one each of: :exclude list-of-symbols :only list-of-symbols :rename map-of-fromsymbol-tosymbol For each public interned var in the namespace named by the symbol, adds a mapping from the name of the var to the var to the current namespace. Throws an exception if name is already mapped to somethin...
03:55	michaelr525	hyPiRion: but in which case would i use refer without a require?
04:01	tomoj	I can't think of any reason
04:03	tomoj	other than like (:refer-clojure :exclude [replace])
04:05	michaelr525	hmm
04:05	michaelr525	so why :use goes out of style? looks like :use should be the most used of these forms..
04:07	tomoj	I hardly ever use :use
04:07	tomoj	except at the repl
04:07	tomoj	some believe that :use is only acceptable when paired with :only
04:08	tomoj	but :require :refer works for that, and works in clojurescript too
04:08	noidi	michaelr525, it's easier to :use all names in a namespace without thinking about it too much
04:08	noidi	:require makes you explicitly state that it's really what you want
04:08	noidi	with (:require foo :refer :all)
04:09	noidi	I guess that's the reason
04:09	alex_baranosky	what are you all using to manage your SQL schema migrations?
04:09	michaelr525	noidi: oh
04:09	michaelr525	i see
04:10	michaelr525	that's what i did when I started actually, just imported everything with use. now I usually specify what I need with :only/
04:13	samrat	what's the way to do background task queueing in Clojure?
04:13	noidi	samrat, you could use agents or futures
04:14	michaelr525	samrat: i use langohr
04:14	michaelr525	with rabbitmq
04:16	samrat	thanks, I'll look those up
04:16	samrat	anything based on redis, I did find resque-clojure, but that doesn't seem to have been updated in a while
04:20	michaelr525	,(doc require)
04:20	clojurebot	"([& args]); Loads libs, skipping any that are already loaded. Each argument is either a libspec that identifies a lib, a prefix list that identifies multiple libs whose names share a common prefix, or a flag that modifies how all the identified libs are loaded. Use :require in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly. Libs A 'lib' is a named set of resources in classpath whose contents...
04:22	michaelr525	noidi: was the :refer options added to :require in clojure 1.4?
04:23	michaelr525	noidi: it's mentioned in the docs in the source but not mentioned int the docs at clojuredocs.org (the version there is 1.3)
04:24	amalloy	michaelr525: yes
04:25	michaelr525	ah, now everything is clear ;)
04:25	michaelr525	amalloy: what
04:27	michaelr525	amalloy: err ignore that what
04:47	AustinYun	wow
04:47	AustinYun	circle ci and travis ci both work with datomic
05:00	muhoo	https://www.refheap.com/paste/4864 i give up
05:01	muhoo	amazon s3 requires jackson 1.9.9. cheshire 4.0.0 requires jackson 2.0.0 and i'm just screwed
05:01	clgv	muhoo:is one compatible with the other?
05:02	clgv	muhoo: in that case you could specify :exclusions in the project.clj
05:03	muhoo	they don't appear to be.
05:04	muhoo	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.codehaus.jackson.smile.SmileFactory
05:04	clgv	muhoo: maybe a slightly older version of cheshire then?
05:04	muhoo	noir depends on 4.0.0. the tree i posted shows the tangle
05:04	muhoo	sleepy now, must sleep. tired, dependency hell, no work getting done, only pain.
05:05	clgv	muhoo: well maybe noir is fine with a slightly older version?
05:05	clgv	muhoo: "amazon s3" is a lib for the equal named service of amazon? or is their runtime env?
05:06	muhoo	it's all here: https://www.refheap.com/paste/4864
05:06	tomoj	the latest aws sdk seems to depend on an even older version of jackson
05:06	clgv	ok, I didnt play with any amazon services yet ;)
05:07	muhoo	(+ clj-aws-s3 noir) => trouble
05:07	tomoj	a kludge to get it working might be jarjar
05:07	clgv	muhoo: does amazon also throw an exception if you use 2.0.0?
05:08	muhoo	the api has changed.
05:08	clgv	ok. damn
05:08	muhoo	i'll look into jarjar, thanks
05:09	clgv	binx? :P
05:09	muhoo	no, not elmo-in-space. the library
05:09	clgv	just kidding. go get some sleep - that often helps^^
05:09	tomoj	I can't find the example but I think e.g. storm uses jarjar to rewrite the package names of thrift so that storm's thrift won't conflict with user code thrift
05:10	tomoj	well that won't help you much
05:10	tomoj	cus you'd have to write the classnames in clj-aws-s3 or cheshire
05:11	tomoj	er, in aws-java-sdk or cheshire :(
05:11	muhoo	i might throw this to weavejester and see if he has any ideas
05:12	weavejester	What's the problem?
05:12	muhoo	but he depends on the amazon library, and they're the ones digging their heels in with old jackson smile
05:12	muhoo	weavejester: https://www.refheap.com/paste/4864
05:13	muhoo	clj-aws-s3 wants jackson 1.9.9, noir wants cheshire 4.0.0 which wants jackson 2.0.0
05:13	tomoj	(and latest aws-java-sdk wants jackson 1.8.9, it seems)
05:14	weavejester	Is jackson 1.9.9 incompatible with jackson 2.0.0?
05:14	muhoo	end result is this: https://www.refheap.com/paste/4865
05:14	muhoo	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.codehaus.jackson.smile.SmileFactory
05:14	weavejester	Have you tried forcing both to use 2.0.0?
05:15	muhoo	weavejester: i did, some time ago. i don't remember the exact result, but it didn't help
05:15	weavejester	On the dependency tree Cheshire is further away from base than clj-aws-s3, so maybe it you added the jackson classes to your deps tree directly to use 2.0.0
05:17	muhoo	i didn't
05:17	muhoo	perhaps noir did
05:17	weavejester	?
05:17	muhoo	sorry, cheshire did
05:18	weavejester	Have you tried adding the jackson classes directly to your project deps?
05:18	muhoo	also, it's a bit different. clj-aws wants jackson-core-asl, etc, but cheshire wants jackson-core, etc
05:18	muhoo	and i don't understand the differences, not being an expert on jackson
05:19	muhoo	it looks to my naive eyes like the api and library structure changed a lot between those versions
05:20	weavejester	Hm… they're different package families too.
05:20	muhoo	right. so that's why i'm stuck atm.
05:20	weavejester	Do they produce the same library?
05:21	muhoo	i don't know
05:21	muhoo	jackson is a black box to me. cheshire is quite nice though.
05:22	tomoj	hmm "Differences from Jackson 1.x" "Java package is now com.fasterxml.jackson.core (instead of org.codehaus.jackson)"
05:22	tomoj	(about 2.0)
05:22	tomoj	so it should work fine??
05:22	lazybot	tomoj: What are you, crazy? Of course not!
05:22	muhoo	hehe
05:22	muhoo	tomoj: it didn't last i tried, but no harm in trying again. here come :exclusions, let's see
05:23	weavejester	Okay, so have you actually tried forcing all deps to 2.0.0?
05:23	weavejester	That seems a simple thing to try to see if it works.
05:23	tomoj	muhoo: I mean, if the libraries are in different packages, it should work fine to exclude nothing
05:24	tomoj	shouldn't it?
05:24	weavejester	Different Maven packages, not necessarily different Java packages
05:24	muhoo	weavejester: trying now
05:25	weavejester	So exclude the 1.9.9 version I guess
05:26	tomoj	if you exclude the 1.9.9, org.codehaus.jackson.smile.SmileFactory would not be found
05:26	muhoo	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.codehaus.jackson.JsonFactory
05:26	tomoj	since jackson 2.0 moved from org.codehaus to com.fasterxml
05:27	weavejester	So they even changed the namespaces?
05:27	muhoo	the ns looks the same, just the artifact changed
05:28	tomoj	1.9.9 is entirely contained in org.codehaus
05:28	tomoj	2.0.0 in com.fasterxml
05:28	tomoj	what is the symptom when you don't exclude anything and specify just clj-aws-s3 and noir?
05:29	tomoj	maybe the problem is jackson's deps ?
05:29	tomoj	doesn't seem to have any deps
05:29	muhoo	tomoj: without exclusions, i get java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.codehaus.jackson.smile.SmileFactory
05:30	muhoo	with exclusions, i get java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.codehaus.jackson.JsonFactory
05:31	muhoo	i should post a minimal project which fails, might help if anyone wants to try to repro.
05:32	tomoj	bizarre
05:33	tomoj	add [org.codehaus.jackson/jackson-smile "1.9.9"] ?
05:33	tomoj	(with no exclusions)
05:34	muhoo	ok
05:36	muhoo	tomoj: nice, that worked
05:36	muhoo	but but but
05:36	tomoj	doesn't make sense
05:36	muhoo	why wouldn't that dependency be included in clj-aws-s3?
05:36	tomoj	I wouldn't guess clj-aws-s3/aws-java-sdk make use of smile
05:37	tomoj	old cheshire would require that codehaus SmileFactory class though..
05:38	tomoj	pre 3.1.0
05:38	muhoo	even weirder https://www.refheap.com/paste/4866 that's what results
05:39	muhoo	adding that dependency explicitly, makes stuff disappear
05:39	tomoj	well the jackson-core-asl just got moved down as a dep to jackson-smile, right?
05:40	muhoo	oh it's not under clj-aws-s3 anymore, but still there, i see it
05:40	kral	anyone knows if EuroClojure videos can be downloaded (maybe via torrent?)
05:41	muhoo	tomoj: i have to wonder if other stuff will break now. will try a lein check and see
05:42	tomoj	would be nice if you could see who asked for that missing class
05:44	dhofstet	kral: yes, they can be downloaded http://vimeo.com/euroclojure
05:46	muhoo	tomoj: it's in that stacktrace. gotta love errors on line 1 of a file :-/
05:47	tomoj	so it's coming from cheshire
05:48	muhoo	looks that way. that's why... i'm suspicious that other things will break
05:48	tomoj	but you have cheshire 4.0.0 in deps, which specifies com.fasterxml
05:48	muhoo	i don't have cheshire 4.0.0 in deps, noir does. and yes, it wants the com.fasterxml package version of the same library
05:52	tomoj	fwiw, with [clj-aws-s3 "0.3.2"] [cheshire "4.0.0"], I get no error requiring cheshire.core
05:54	tomoj	the only explanation I can think of is that one of your transitive deps has an old version of cheshire AOT'd .. but that seems unlikely
06:01	kral	dhofstet: oh, thanks
06:27	clgv	ui new vids to view :)
06:28	michaelr525	what?
06:28	clojurebot	what is exceptions
06:28	michaelr525	err
06:28	clgv	clojurebot: botkick ;)
06:28	clojurebot	No entiendo
06:29	michaelr525	a function may return 1 item or a collection of items, i would like to map this function over a collection and concatenate the results. mapcat won't work since concat requires all arguments to be a collection.
06:30	clgv	can't you make sure that your functions always returns collections?
06:30	michaelr525	should I make my function return only a collection and use mapcat ?
06:31	michaelr525	i can but i'm not sure that I want to...
06:31	clgv	michaelr525: do you need lazy? otherwise implement the combining logic via reduce that chooses between conj and concat
06:32	michaelr525	hmm
06:32	michaelr525	suppose that i need lazy..
06:33	michaelr525	i don't really need lazy, but i don't like writing that reduce - i'd rather make my function return only collections
06:33	clgv	thats probably better
06:34	clgv	I know one example where it is really annoying that the function returns a value if there is only one but a collection if there are many
06:34	michaelr525	i think that once someone here wrote some neat solution using (into)
06:34	clgv	incanter's selection of columns does (maybe did) that
06:35	clgv	michaelr525: humm but into needs a collection as well
06:37	michaelr525	yeah
06:50	clgv	michaelr525: you could also use (apply concat (map #(let [r (apply f %&)] (if (sequential? r) r [r])) coll))
06:55	michaelr525	clgv: yeah, i think that I'll take that route
06:56	michaelr525	now the problem is to find a suitable name for that function ;)
06:56	michaelr525	maybe (mapcat-always)?
06:56	michaelr525	(mapcat-anyway)
06:56	clgv	your choice ;)
06:56	michaelr525	(mapcat-everything)
06:57	michaelr525	(map-my-cat)
06:58	clgv	then you need an additional (map-my-dog) ;)
06:58	michaelr525	heh
06:59	michaelr525	i think it'll be something like this: (mapcat #(ensure-seq (my-function)) col)
07:00	clgv	I have assure-coll somewhere in my projects ;)
07:00	clgv	or even assure-vec?
07:04	michaelr525	settled on (mapcatz) :)
07:04	clgv	I demand (mapdogz) as well ;)
07:05	michaelr525	you are barking at the wrong tree ;)
07:56	iDesperadO	how to read clojure's doc. Is there any guid for it? like (doc clojure.set/project) => clojure.set/project ([xrel ks]) Returns a rel of the elements of xrel with only the keys in ks
07:57	iDesperadO	I read this doc time and time again, with no idea what project indents to do
07:58	S11001001	iDesperadO: rel means set
07:58	iDesperadO	how rel means set?
07:58	S11001001	a set relates its elements to each other
07:59	iDesperadO	and there's xrel
07:59	S11001001	iDesperadO: try reading the docs of functions you're familiar with
07:59	iDesperadO	what a irony...I don't need to read the doc that I've already familiar with... only ones I'm not
08:00	S11001001	why is that?
08:01	tomoj	some of the clojure.set docs are just confusing
08:01	tomoj	a rel is a set of maps ##(clojure.set/project #{{:foo 1 :bar 2} {:foo 3 :bar 4}} #{:foo})
08:01	lazybot	⇒ #{{:foo 1} {:foo 3}}
08:01	S11001001	thanks tomoj
08:02	S11001001	relational algebra ahoy
08:03	iDesperadO	tomoj: where can I find that a rel is a set of maps?
08:05	iDesperadO	tomoj: I mean if I can't understand the doc of a function, where can I turn to?
08:05	clgv	iDesperadO: I think there is some more doc in the namespace docs
08:06	clgv	iDesperadO: clojuredocs.org has often some examples on the usage
08:06	iDesperadO	ah...
08:07	iDesperadO	clgv: then how to find namespace doc? like some docs about the namespace clojure.set?
08:08	clgv	iDesperadO: http://clojure.github.com/clojure/ but there is none for clojure.set - seems I read it somewhere else
08:08	iDesperadO	clgv: I often miss python's help function which can tell me something like list/dictionary `help(list)/help(dict)`
08:10	tomoj	iDesperadO: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.set/project
08:10	iDesperadO	I'm reading it
08:11	clgv	iDesperadO: in case you wanted project entries from a map - this is named select-keys
08:12	iDesperadO	so, other from clojuredocs.org I will have no idea project deals with a set of maps...why they can't tell this in the doc???
08:12	lazybot	iDesperadO: How could that be wrong?
08:13	tomoj	they probably should
08:13	iDesperadO	I find clojure's doc is not friendly to newbies, at least to someone like me
08:23	clgv	iDesperadO: out of curiosity do you really need `project`? I have not needed it, yet. I think there are some questionable function in clojure.set - all those dealing with relations
08:27	iDesperadO	clgv: no, I just happen to pick project as an example to show that sometimes I don't understand the doc and wonder to know guys here have better way to teach me how to lean a function on repl
08:29	iDesperadO	clgv: at first I'm confused by tokens like "x" "xs"...and after I get used to I find more doc that I can't understand...
08:30	clgv	iDesperadO: ah ok. I think in clojure.core the docs are better.
08:33	iDesperadO	clgv: do clojure has some way to know something about a namespace?
08:33	clgv	iDesperadO: you have to be more specific for a helping answer ;)
08:34	clgv	iDesperadO: otherwise my generic answer is that the clojure cheat sheet has a section on namespace related functiosn
08:34	iDesperadO	like if I don't know nrepl is something like swank-clojure, but if I want to know more what's nrepl is, the only way is to look on the web?
08:35	clgv	iDesperadO: nrepl is a third-party library. you'll have to find its project page and read the docs overthere
08:35	pandeiro	iDesperadO: i've seen (ns..) declarations annotated with :doc metadata
08:36	pandeiro	but i'm not sure how to retrieve that at the repl
08:36	clgv	clgv: most clojure projects have their source and documentation hosted on github
08:36	clgv	,(doc clojure.core)
08:36	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.core>
08:36	gfredericks	,(-> "clojure.core" find-ns meta :doc)
08:36	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol>
08:36	clgv	humm shouldnt that work with 1.4?
08:36	gfredericks	,(-> "clojure.core" symbol find-ns meta :doc)
08:36	clojurebot	"Fundamental library of the Clojure language"
08:37	gfredericks	,(-> "clojure.walk" symbol find-ns meta :doc)
08:37	clojurebot	nil
08:37	Bronsa	((comp :doc meta find-ns) 'clojure.core)
08:37	gfredericks	yep, lots of docs there
08:37	Bronsa	,((comp :doc meta find-ns) 'clojure.core)
08:37	clojurebot	"Fundamental library of the Clojure language"
08:39	iDesperadO	seems only ((comp :doc meta find-ns) ns) can find doc only for clojure.core
08:39	clgv	,((comp :doc meta find-ns) 'clojure.test)
08:39	clojurebot	nil
08:39	iDesperadO	mostly it just returns nil
08:39	clgv	,(-> "clojure.test" symbol find-ns meta :doc)
08:39	clojurebot	nil
08:39	iDesperadO	right
08:40	clgv	clojure.test should have some
08:40	clgv	cf. http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.test-api.html
08:41	iDesperadO	clgv: I need to read the Overview part there
08:41	iDesperadO	right now I just want to read on my repl
08:41	iDesperadO	no to read it on the wed
08:41	iDesperadO	web
08:42	clgv	iDesperadO: then you are stuck with `doc` for function docstrings
08:42	iDesperadO	the Overview part tells me what the ns is for and maybe some examples about the usage
08:42	clgv	iDesperadO: probably, you should read one of the introductory books on clojure if you are serious about learning it - that'll speed you up
08:42	iDesperadO	I'm reading it
08:43	iDesperadO	clgv: clojure programming
08:43	iDesperadO	clgv: but...but I hope clojure's doc can be at least as good as python:)
08:46	iDesperadO	clgv: just my wishes:)
08:46	wmealing_	is there any ssl client/server certificate libraries for clojure, i'm not getting much luck with the google
08:46	iDesperadO	I'd better to finish my reading and start writing something
08:46	clgv	iDesperadO: in the 1.4 release they did a lot of doc writing afair
08:46	hyPiRion	iDesperadO: It's going to be better... I hope.
08:46	clgv	wmealing_: try java libs?
08:47	wmealing_	clgv: might have to
08:47	hyPiRion	At least Clojure developers are aware that the doc is bad, so it should be on a prioritized list.
09:05	jcromartie	I am torn over wether it's a good thing or a bad thing, that there is no standard command called "clojure"
09:06	jcromartie	a la scala, python, ruby, perl
09:06	jcromartie	alias clojure="lein repl" # goo enough
09:06	jcromartie	s/goo/good/
09:11	jcromartie	,default-data-readers
09:11	clojurebot	{inst #'clojure.instant/read-instant-date, uuid #'clojure.uuid/default-uuid-reader}
09:12	jcromartie	,(println #uuid 1234)
09:12	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.AssertionError: Assert failed: (string? form)>
09:12	jcromartie	this quits my REPL
09:12	jcromartie	,(println "I'm still here")
09:12	clojurebot	I'm still here
09:12	gfredericks	,(println #uuid "1234")
09:12	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid UUID string: 1234>
09:13	jcromartie	I'm not trying to read a valid UUID :)
09:13	jcromartie	I just noticed it quit the REPL ("Bye for now!")
09:14	jcromartie	looks like it works in the latest leiningen though
09:16	wilfredh	is there any easy way to convert [:1 :2 :3] to [1 2 3] ?
09:16	wilfredh	rather than converting to a string, stripping the colon, then parsing the string as a number
09:19	gfredericks	wilfredh: name instead of str will save you a step
09:20	gfredericks	,(mapv (comp read-string name) [:1 :2 :3])
09:20	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
09:20	jcromartie	I'd imagine read-string is slower than Integer/parseInt
09:21	S11001001	jcromartie: yeah, but it works with all the integers fit to print
09:21	jcromartie	true
09:22	S11001001	we had a prod bug caused by parseInt where we should have been read-stringing once
09:22	gfredericks	,(read-string "372824723724728477417915793579237952973479234375373733000N")
09:22	clojurebot	372824723724728477417915793579237952973479234375373733000N
09:23	wilfredh	gfredericks: thanks.
09:23	S11001001	wilfredh: in this case, though, you want to ##(-> :3 name first int (- (int \0)))
09:23	lazybot	⇒ 3
09:24	jcromartie	there should be a better way to coerce a string into an integer number :)
09:24	jcromartie	without read-string
09:24	jcromartie	read-string is not eval, but it's close enough to make me nervous
09:24	jcromartie	maybe I should relax
09:25	S11001001	wilfredh: I'm assuming your keywords are one digit each
09:25	wilfredh	afraid not
09:25	jcromartie	S11001001: why would you assume one digit?
09:25	jcromartie	oh, you're being silly :)
09:25	xeqi	heh, bind read-eval to false and you might be safe reading
09:26	gfredericks	jcromartie: read-string is perfectly awesome if you have read-eval off
09:26	gfredericks	it's just like reading json
09:26	S11001001	I guard it with [0-9]+ for integer reading
09:27	wilfredh	,(mapv (comp Integer/parseInt name) [:1 :2 :3])
09:27	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to find static field: parseInt in class java.lang.Integer, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
09:27	jcromartie	Where is "#=" documented?
09:27	jcromartie	it's not in http://clojure.org/reader
09:27	jcromartie	or is it
09:27	gfredericks	,(doc read-eval)
09:27	clojurebot	"; When set to logical false, the EvalReader (#=(...)) is disabled in the read/load in the thread-local binding. Example: (binding [read-eval false] (read-string \"#=(eval (def x 3))\")) Defaults to true"
09:27	jcromartie	yeah
09:27	jcromartie	but #= itself
09:27	wilfredh	why can't I use comp with Integer/parseInt?
09:27	jcromartie	why in the world would read-eval be true by default anyway
09:27	jcromartie	who uses #=
09:27	wilfredh	(sorry for novice questions...)
09:28	S11001001	wilfredh: it's not a function; the gods of clojure are interfering with your repl to encourage you to use read-string instead :]
09:28	gfredericks	jcromartie: I think it's a lot less necessary now that there are data readers; I hope it gets defaulted to off
09:29	jcromartie	wilfredh: because it's a Java class method, not a Clojure fn
09:29	jcromartie	when Clojure sees Integer/parseInt by itself, it tries to access it as a static field
09:29	babilen	wilfredh: You can use (memfn Integer/parseInt)
09:29	jcromartie	the source code of memfn is instructuve
09:29	gfredericks	,Integer/parseInt
09:29	wilfredh	,(mapv (comp (memfn Integer/parseInt) name) [:1 :2 :3])
09:29	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to find static field: parseInt in class java.lang.Integer, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
09:29	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: parseInt for class java.lang.String>
09:30	chouser	There's really no point in memfn now that we have #()
09:30	babilen	wilfredh: Or just use an anonymous function such as #(Integer/parseInt %) ...
09:30	gfredericks	chouser: point-free nerds!
09:31	babilen	chouser: Right, I use #(Foo/bar %) more often anyway.
09:31	jcromartie	(memfn Integer/parseInt) should work locally… I think clojurebot is doing something clever
09:31	S11001001	,(doc memfn)
09:31	clojurebot	"([name & args]); Expands into code that creates a fn that expects to be passed an object and any args and calls the named instance method on the object passing the args. Use when you want to treat a Java method as a first-class fn."
09:31	stain	chouser: unless it takes many arguments (unlikely for typical functional uses of memfn though)
09:32	S11001001	jcromartie: I think memfn makes member method calls
09:32	jcromartie	,((memfn Integer/parseInt) "1234")
09:32	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: parseInt for class java.lang.String>
09:33	jcromartie	weird
09:33	jcromartie	oh right
09:33	hyPiRion	jcromartie: Works only on methods, not static methods.
09:33	S11001001	ugh, I can't believe I said "member methods"
09:34	hyPiRion	,((memfn parseInt) 1 "1234")
09:34	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: sandbox$eval55$fn>
09:34	S11001001	instance, S11001001, Instance
09:34	hyPiRion	,((memfn parseInt) "1234")
09:34	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: parseInt for class java.lang.String>
09:34	jcromartie	anyway
09:34	hyPiRion	,((memfn parseInt) (Integer. 1) "1234")
09:34	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: sandbox$eval111$fn>
09:34	jcromartie	use #(Integer/parseInt %)
09:34	hyPiRion	yeah - seems to be no way out of it.
09:35	hyPiRion	Eventually, you could just fire off #(Integer. %)
09:35	hyPiRion	,(#(Integer. %) "1234")
09:35	clojurebot	1234
09:35	S11001001	sure there is, resurrect clojure.contrib.import-static and (import-static (java.lang.Integer read-string)) :]
09:35	chouser	memfn only supports instance methods
09:35	S11001001	hyPiRion: badness, no sharing instances of small nums
09:36	hyPiRion	S11001001: hm?
09:36	hyPiRion	,(identical? (Integer. "10") (Integer. "10"))
09:36	clojurebot	false
09:36	S11001001	,[(identical? (Integer/valueOf "1") (Integer/valueOf "1")) (identical? (Integer. "1") (Integer. "1"))]
09:36	clojurebot	[true false]
09:36	jcromartie	Interesting
09:37	S11001001	very annoying that deserialize doesn't exploit the shared pools
09:38	chouser	memfn also still requires points, as far as I understand the definition
09:38	chouser	,((memfn substring x y) "hello" 3 5)
09:38	clojurebot	"lo"
09:40	chouser	So again, how is that better?
09:40	chouser	(#(.substring %1 %2 %3) "hello" 3 5)
09:41	chouser	,(#(.substring %1 %2 %3) "hello" 3 5)
09:41	clojurebot	"lo"
10:09	nz-	,(identical? (Integer/valueOf "1234567") (Integer/valueOf "1234567"))
10:10	clojurebot	false
10:10	nz-	,(identical? (Integer/valueOf "12") (Integer/valueOf "12"))
10:10	clojurebot	true
10:11	jeremyheiler	Integer caches the first 128 Integers, I think.
10:11	casion	256
10:11	hyPiRion	jeremyheiler: The cache is from -128 to 127
10:12	hyPiRion	I believe.
10:12	casion	hyPiRion is correct
10:12	jeremyheiler	yep, you're correct, just found it
10:12	casion	I spent an hour figuring out that same thing last night
10:18	S11001001	java FindBugs warns against using new Integer et al for this reason
10:21	casion	,(identical? (int 13) (int 13))
10:21	clojurebot	true
10:21	casion	,(identical? (int 313) (int 313))
10:21	clojurebot	false
10:25	S11001001	this is pretty ordinary for lisp; standard common lisp and most schemes have some such cutoff, though the lisps typically bit-twiddle instead of maintaining an in-memory cache
10:26	technomancy	usually that's done through fixnums though, which the JVM unfortunately lacks
10:27	casion	with boxing ints to Integers in 1.4, I think it becomes a bit silly
10:27	nvy	,(identical? 1311 1311)
10:27	clojurebot	false
10:27	S11001001	because some implementor decided to have separate value and reference types instead of a unified value model
10:27	nvy	man what
10:28	nvy	,(identical? (- 1311 1311) (- 1311 1311))
10:28	clojurebot	true
10:28	S11001001	nvy: that's nothing, this is allowed in r5rs scheme: (let ((x #\a)) (eq? x x)) => false
10:28	nvy	I've never heard of R5RS before
10:29	jeremyheiler	S11001001: Why?
10:29	arrdem	S11001001: what in the seven hells...
10:29	technomancy	nine
10:29	arrdem	%s/seven/nine/g
10:30	samrat	in Noir-async, how do I do a push on the completion of a future?
10:30	technomancy	seven is purgatory =)
10:31	S11001001	jeremyheiler, arrdem: to allow lexical binding strategies that don't necessarily map to the object-identity space
10:32	S11001001	I wonder...
10:32	S11001001	,(let [x 12343] (identical? x x))
10:32	clojurebot	false
10:32	hyPiRion	Well, I mean
10:32	S11001001	thought so
10:32	hyPiRion	Yeah.
10:33	arrdem	,(doc identical?)
10:33	clojurebot	"([x y]); Tests if 2 arguments are the same object"
10:33	casion	I think I'm just going to avoid all lisps forever now
10:33	arrdem	ah.
10:33	hyPiRion	,(let [x (atom 12343)] (identical? x x))
10:33	clojurebot	true
10:33	arrdem	(dec casion) ; shun the non-beleiver
10:33	lazybot	⇒ -1
10:33	casion	lol :)
10:33	gfredericks	wait why the non-identical 12343's?
10:33	S11001001	casion: it makes perfect sense. Forbidding you from making assumptions that aren't very useful in reality allows the implementation strategies to be more creative.
10:34	chouser	first, let's be clear that identical? often lets you see implementation details. "Equality" in any reasonable sense is implemented in = or ==
10:34	S11001001	it's certainly somewhat surprising that this can happen, but it's not actually ever useful to test identity in cases where your references are tautologically the same
10:35	weavejester	technomancy: ping
10:35	hyPiRion	,(let [a (Integer. "1000")] (identical? a a))
10:35	clojurebot	true
10:35	arrdem	see... the (identical?) I can understand I guess. The (eq?) hacks me off a bit.
10:35	S11001001	arrdem: eq? is identical?
10:35	arrdem	S11001001: srs5 eq? as mentioned above
10:35	casion	S11001001: it doesn't make any sense to me atm at all
10:35	S11001001	casion: you saw the recent discussion on clojure about how take-while requires its pred be pure?
10:36	arrdem	(inc hyPiRion)
10:36	lazybot	⇒ 3
10:36	S11001001	arrdem: what?
10:36	arrdem	hang on I'm having a revalation
10:36	casion	S11001001: no
10:37	S11001001	casion: okay, ##(doc take-while) why make that restriction on pred?
10:37	lazybot	⇒ "([pred coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of successive items from coll while (pred item) returns true. pred must be free of side-effects."
10:38	casion	S11001001: I don't know. I've never understood the use of 'must' in that sentence
10:39	S11001001	casion: it's a requirement about the pred you pass in
10:39	hyPiRion	,(let [eq? (fn [a] (identical? a a))] (eq? 1000))
10:39	clojurebot	true
10:39	S11001001	casion: must has the meaning from rfc 2119, if you want further documentation :)
10:39	nvy	great
10:40	chouser	,(keep #(when-not (identical? (read-string %) (read-string %)) %) (map str (range -130 130)))
10:40	clojurebot	("-130" "-129" "128" "129")
10:40	casion	S11001001: one moment
10:42	casion	S11001001: yeah, I have no idea
10:43	chouser	so, the numbers between -128 and 127 (inclusive) when read are taken from a cache instead of creating new objects on the heap), and identical? is letting you see that.
10:43	djanatyn	hmm. records and protocols are kind of cool.
10:43	S11001001	casion: The requirement that pred must be pure means that `take-while' is free to change how it calls `pred'. It could call it more often, or less, or change the order of calls, or change the mix of lazy-seq value production and pred calls.
10:44	djanatyn	is there anything that makes them very different from regular classes and generic methods?
10:44	hyPiRion	The reason why identical? doesn't return true for values outside -128 to 127 is because they are wrapped in a Long when identical? is called.
10:44	hyPiRion	As far as I can understand.
10:44	djanatyn	I've used CLOS and I'm trying to get used to clojure's version of OOP so that I can follow along in my java class
10:45	gfredericks	hyPiRion: so it is a primitive long before being passed in as args?
10:45	casion	S11001001: is this to avoid things breaking if/when take-while is changed, or does it apply to the current implementation?
10:45	S11001001	casion: take-while sacrifices predictability of pred calls for creativity in its own implementation. It's the same with this identical? thing; by making identical? counterintuitive (but still correct), the implementation can get more creative
10:46	S11001001	And yes, identical? is giving the right answer here. Intuitiveness is not only unnecessary for correctness, it can sometimes lead you down the wrong path.
10:47	jeremyheiler	&(let [x 1234] (identical? x x)) ; even for this?
10:47	lazybot	⇒ false
10:48	hyPiRion	gfredericks: Well, it certainly seems like it.
10:49	nvy	jeremyheiler: I'm a newbie, but I think in your case, x is not an object before it reaches identical?
10:49	hyPiRion	,(let [eq? (fn [a] (let [b a] (identical? a b))) c 1000] (eq? c))
10:49	clojurebot	true
10:49	jeremyheiler	ah... makes sense
10:49	nvy	it is a primitive
10:49	casion	gfredericks: I was discussing that with you yesterday I think, when I was asking if there was a better way to avoid using unchecked-int everywhere
10:49	casion	since clojure seems to promote to long quite liberally
10:49	casion	and early
10:50	gfredericks	casion: promoting to long is slightly different from boxing
10:51	gfredericks	boxing is the issue here I think
10:52	casion	gfredericks: I thought boxing only every happened with similar types in clojure, int->Integer, long->Long etc..
10:52	casion	ever*
10:52	hyPiRion	So it's boxed in a Long when sent as a parameter to a function.
10:52	gfredericks	casion: in 1.3 it started promoting to longs as well
10:53	casion	ah ok
10:53	technomancy	weavejester: hi
10:53	casion	well, it's all very confusing to someone who's used to C ;)
10:53	weavejester	technomancy: Hey there! I was wondering if you could release clj-stacktrace 0.2.5, since I've just ran into a bug that was fixed after 0.2.4
10:55	technomancy	weavejester: I was waiting for chouser's patches to do the next release, but at this point I've probably waited long enough
10:55	weavejester	technomancy: Thanks :)
10:56	chouser	technomancy: sorry :-(
10:56	chouser	weavejester: sorry :-(
10:56	technomancy	chouser: well it's been an convenient excuse
10:57	weavejester	I just want mva's NPE fix :)
10:57	technomancy	I'll see if I can push it out later today
10:58	weavejester	No real hurry. I forked the repo and pushed a version to a custom group in clojars in the meantime.
11:26	naeg	would be great if someone could help me with a bit-fiddling code in clojure: http://bpaste.net/show/deSQBXgSWer59qAqshCM/
11:26	clgv	can I use (derive :a :b) without namespace qualification of :a?
11:27	naeg	it's a neat algorithm for checking whether a player has won a connect four game
11:30	clgv	ah, I need an own hierarchy...
11:31	chouser	clgv: keywords in hierarchies must all be namespaced, iirc
11:31	scriptor	naeg: does >> have a higher or lower precedence?
11:31	scriptor	higher or lower than
11:31	clgv	chouser: nope. only in the global one afair
11:31	clgv	,(doc derive)
11:32	clojurebot	"([tag parent] [h tag parent]); Establishes a parent/child relationship between parent and tag. Parent must be a namespace-qualified symbol or keyword and child can be either a namespace-qualified symbol or keyword or a class. h must be a hierarchy obtained from make-hierarchy, if not supplied defaults to, and modifies, the global hierarchy."
11:32	scriptor	ah, looks like its lower
11:34	naeg	scriptor: I'm fiddling around with the code, but it always returns 0 where it should return 1 afaik
11:34	naeg	e.g. for number 15
11:46	canweriotnow	did something change recently with clojure.java.jdbc?
11:47	chouser	clgv: sure enough. Interesting.
11:47	clgv	chouser: it's not in the docstring but in the assert in the source
11:48	clgv	should be mentioned in the docstring though
11:48	lispnik	hi, i signed a CA and it has been received, so I requested to join the clojure-dev mailing list. membership to that group is still pending after about a week though
11:48	pjstadig	canweriotnow: why do you ask?
11:49	pjstadig	are you on 1.3/1.4?
11:49	pjstadig	(clojure that is)
11:50	pjstadig	there are some "unexpected" interactions between clojure 1.3/1.4 and databases containing bigint columns
11:50	canweriotnow	I'm getting IllegalArgumentException (missing a required parameter) for my db-spec, and I don't think my code changed… I also can't figure out what I'm missing.
11:50	canweriotnow	I'm on 1.3.
11:50	canweriotnow	I'm not even connecting at this point...
11:50	canweriotnow	and I don't think any of the columns are bigint, anyway :-/
11:52	canweriotnow	I've got classname, subprotocol, sub name, user, password keys in the db spec hash… can't figure out what's missing.
11:57	lispnik	canweriotnow: can you paste the db spec? (sans credentials)
11:58	lispnik	canweriotnow: and a stack trace
12:01	canweriotnow	lispnik: yeah, one sec, working on two machines, thx :)
12:07	canweriotnow	(defn bbts-dev []
12:07	canweriotnow	{ :classname (get-property "acedia.bbts")
12:07	canweriotnow	:subprotocol (get-property "acedia.bbts.subprotocol")
12:07	canweriotnow	:subname (str "@" (get-property "acedia.bbts.dev.host") ":" (get-property "acedia.bbts.dev.port") ":" (get-property "acedia.bbts.dev.sid"))
12:07	canweriotnow	:user (get-property "acedia.bbts.dev.user")
12:07	canweriotnow	:password (get-property "acedia.bbts.dev.password")})
12:07	canweriotnow	eh, lemme do a gist, sorry...
12:08	canweriotnow	lispnik: https://gist.github.com/2a2e87c24e495cf340f5
12:08	lispnik	canweriotnow: have you checked the return values of each of those get-property calls?
12:08	canweriotnow	yup… all correct.
12:10	lispnik	what db is this for?
12:10	lispnik	oh oops
12:10	lispnik	just saw you have that in your gist
12:12	canweriotnow	lispnik: having the same problem with MSSQL, though (multi-db app;ication)
12:13	canweriotnow	Thinking of trying it with my postgres system just to be sure, but… yeah, I don't get it. this all worked previously.
12:13	muhoo	is there a way to specify in lein/nrepl that a form be executed 1) whenever the project starts and 2) whenever a new repl is started ?
12:14	muhoo	in other words, 1) whenever the repl starts, and 2) whenever the user connects to it.
12:14	technomancy	muhoo: for 1) you can put an :injections key in the :repl profile
12:14	technomancy	you might need to copy the :dependencies from Leiningen's :repl profile since the one in your project will shadow Leiningen's
12:15	muhoo	they don't merge?
12:15	technomancy	no, profiles of the same name shadow existing ones
12:15	unlink	Is there an if form that wraps its else block in an implicit do?
12:15	muhoo	thanks. any idea about (2)?
12:15	technomancy	otherwise there's no way to support removing things that Leiningen brings in implicitly
12:16	technomancy	muhoo: that'd be more of an nrepl question
12:17	muhoo	ok
12:17	lispnik	canweriotnow: sorry i got nothing… perhaps in the full stack trace there is an indication on what param it's complaining about
12:18	canweriotnow	lispnik: okay, thanks anyhow.
12:25	uvtc	I'm using mustache (clostache) and am looking for a good way to have it "include" header and footer content in a template. I'm currently using partials, but `slurp` to get the actual header and footer content from those template files... anyone have any ideas for a better way to do this?
12:27	uvtc	What I'd like is to just put `{{> header}}` at the top of my this-page.mustache template and have it "include" header.mustache right there, but that doesn't seem to be the way clostache/mustache operates.
12:35	samflores	uvtc, I'm using something like this: https://gist.github.com/3623177
12:36	samflores	it's basically what your are doing
12:36	samflores	*you
12:40	uvtc	samflores: Thanks. Why are you using `clojure.java.io/resource` instead of just having `slurp` grab the file?
12:46	uvtc	What is the purpose of clojure.java.io/resource?
12:47	gfredericks	get a fileish thing on the classpath without having to worry about if you're in an FS project or a jar or etc?
12:48	austinh	Does anyone have an example of using virtual hosts with Clojure/Jetty?
12:49	austinh	I'm getting a ClassNotFoundException when importing org.eclipse.jetty.servlet.ServletContextHandler and I can't figure out how to proceed.
12:52	mrb_bk	dnolen: are there any decent technical book stores in NYC
12:53	dnolen	mrb_bk: hmm ... I always order everything online.
12:53	mrb_bk	dnolen: same, i wish there was a great used store though
12:53	dnolen	mrb_bk: oh right, yeah I get most of my of used books off amazon
12:54	mrb_bk	dnolen: i want a copy of bratko's AI book
12:55	duck1123	austinh: you're trying to run multiple hosts in the same application?
12:57	dnolen	mrb_bk: there's a newer 4th edition now w/ quite a bit of new material it seems.
12:57	austinh	duck1123: yes
12:57	xeqi	uvtc: clojure.java.io/resources will read resources inside of jar files
12:57	uvtc	gfredericks: Ok, looks like io/resource gets the java.lang.ClassLoader for this thread (which is used for loading classes and resources (from somewhere on the classpath)), and calls its getResource method which returns a java.net.URL. Not exactly sure why it returns a URL instead of a File though. I suppose because resources can be found in places other than local files. :)
12:58	S11001001	uvtc: like in jars
12:58	mrb_bk	dnolen: hmm, will look into that, thanks!
12:58	xeqi	oh, gfredericks already said that
12:58	S11001001	as xeqi said
12:59	uvtc	xeqi S11001001 : Thanks. So, it could return a URL that points into a jar? What would that look like?
12:59	S11001001	uvtc: ask for clojure/core__init.class and find out :)
12:59	duck1123	austinh: I'm affraid I don't know much about Jetty WRT virtual hosts. Just wanted to make sure you weren't simply trying to run two domains on the same machine. (which is different)
13:00	TimMc	It is?
13:01	uvtc	,(str (clojure.java.io/resource "clojure/core__init.class"))
13:01	clojurebot	""
13:01	uvtc	Give me results on my system though. Thanks, S11001001 .
13:01	uvtc	"jar:file:/home/john/.lein/self-installs/leiningen-2.0.0-preview10-standalone.jar!/clojure/core__init.class"
13:02	duck1123	TimMc: If he was just trying to run two domains, I would suggest having 2 apps with a common frontend http server
13:03	uvtc	gfredericks: tanks.
13:03	uvtc	gfredericks: also, *thanks.
13:08	austinh	How do you know which Java classes can be imported? Is it determined by the JVM that I'm running, or by a jar that is packaged with Clojure, or something else?
13:10	S11001001	austinh: you a leiningen user?
13:10	austinh	S11001001: Yes, but I currently run everything using clojure-jack-in and evaluating in the buffer.
13:10	nDuff	austinh: ...in terms of the _details_, it's determined by your classloader, but in the general case, anything accessible to your JVM -- packaged by it, added to your classpath, etc etc
13:11	uvtc	austinh: you can import any java classes on your classpath.
13:11	nDuff	austinh: (there are things that can be done to artificially restrict what classes you can see, or enable download/install/access of new packages within a running instance, or so forth, but if we're just sticking to the general case...)
13:12	S11001001	austinh: then, as nDuff said
13:12	clojurebot	Excuse me?
13:12	nDuff	austinh: ...generally, the easiest thing to do is to let leiningen manage it all for you -- adding a description of anything you need to your project.clj, and letting it download those and make sure they're on the classpath.
13:13	austinh	Ok, so are classes under org.eclipse.jetty available because ring-jetty-adapter depends on org.eclipse.jetty/jetty-server?
13:13	nDuff	austinh: ...if you use "lein swank", you can then attach a running emacs instance to it; I don't know the details of what clojure-jack-in does.
13:13	nDuff	austinh: org.eclipse.jetty is just where jetty-server comes from
13:13	nDuff	austinh: it doesn't guarantee that it gives you all of org.eclipse.jetty
13:13	austinh	Right. That's what I thought.
13:13	nDuff	austinh: ...you'd have to look at the docs for jetty-server to know exactly what is and isn't included
13:13	uvtc	austinh: Oh, if you're talking about getting them onto your classpath to begin with, then as the others are pointing out, you just add them to the dependencies in your project.clj and let lein get them for you.
13:14	austinh	I was wondering why some classes under org.eclipse.jetty can be imported, but others are not found.
13:14	nDuff	nod -- you'll have to find out which packages the ones you need that aren't there come from and add them.
13:14	austinh	I see. Thank you all.
13:14	nDuff	If you were in an OSGi container, the explanation would be longer and much more complicated, but if you were, you'd probably know. :)
13:15	austinh	I don't even want to know.
13:16	uvtc	austinh: You find the packaged-up libs you want at http://search.maven.org/ , then add the "coordinates" you find there to the dependencies in your project.clj.
13:17	austinh	uvtc: Thank you.
13:18	uvtc	austinh: y/w.
13:24	austinh	Is 'lein search' deprecated?
13:24	technomancy	austinh: you need to be running preview10 for it to work properly
13:25	technomancy	since maven moved the index location for central
13:25	technomancy	s/maven/sonatype/
13:25	austinh	Ok, I just updated. Thanks.
13:33	cemerick	technomancy: unbelievable
13:33	cemerick	no redirect?
13:33	technomancy	cemerick: err--they changed the format too
13:34	cemerick	awesome
13:34	technomancy	supposedly the old indices were the "legacy" ones
13:35	technomancy	probably there's a mailing list I should be on so I would find out about these things before they happen? dunno
13:35	cemerick	Seems like something like central shouldn't break APIs/paths until the heat death.
13:36	xeqi	does the same hold for clojars?
13:36	technomancy	cemerick: I have a bit of sympathy since the old indices were huge, monolithic, and crazy slow.
13:36	technomancy	and the new format allows for incremental updates
13:36	canweriotnow	technomancy: does lein2 change any behavior re: loading libs from the system class path, i.e., jdbc drivers?
13:37	technomancy	canweriotnow: yeah, we now ignore $CLASSPATH
13:37	cemerick	Sure. I'm all for improvements, but when the underlying data is the same, and you're just providing different manifestations of it, the marginal cost of leaving prior revs in place is marginal. Or, it is compared to the pain that can be caused by breaking tools that depend on centralized services.
13:37	technomancy	we've never explicitly supported anything that could be called the "system class path", but $CLASSPATH was an undocumented way to do certain sketchy things
13:38	technomancy	cemerick: I think it's more a problem of bandwidth costs
13:38	canweriotnow	technomancy: Is there a proper way to make sure proprietary jars (oracle, mssql) get loaded (i.e., from /usr/lib/jvm/version/jre/lib/ext)?
13:38	technomancy	canweriotnow: you need to get them into a repository
13:39	canweriotnow	so, e.g., lein-localrepo should solve it?
13:39	cemerick	xeqi: Dunno. How many tools depend upon clojars APIs? Is the population depending on them growing, shrinking, or flat?
13:40	cemerick	(rhetorical questions there)
13:40	technomancy	canweriotnow: if you're just working on the project solo that's fine
13:40	canweriotnow	I have to say, Clojure's stack traces (well, really jvm's) make me miss the CL REPL :)
13:40	technomancy	canweriotnow: otherwise you'll want to set up a private repository, which can be just a pile of files served over HTTP
13:41	canweriotnow	technomancy: Yeah, I'm the only one on this for the moment, we're going to set up maven or sonatype locally for some stuff once it needs sharing. Thanks! :D
13:49	technomancy	cemerick: we used to consume the simple indices with raw lucene, but now the index structure is so complicated we have to use their indexer API
13:49	technomancy	so on the bright side if they have any more incompatible index changes, it'll be a simple version bump on our dependency to fix it =)
14:01	Moses	I'm getting bugs when trying to use Marginalia, anyone have any experience using it?
14:02	Moses	Specifically its telling me I can't create an ISeq from a clojure.lang.Symbol
14:04	dnolen_	Moses: does your own code compile?
14:04	Moses	Yes
14:05	hiredman	are you sure?
14:05	Moses	Shit, I just figured it out
14:05	Moses	I apologize
14:05	Moses	In Defproject, I had :dev-dependencies [lein-marginalia "0.7.1"]
14:06	Moses	Should have been :dev-dependencies [[lein-marginalia "0.7.1"]]
14:06	technomancy	:plugins [[lein-marginalia "0.7.1"]] actually
14:07	Moses	Oh @@
14:08	Moses	BTW, to anyone that hasn't played with it yet, I just got it working, and I'm already in love with it!!!
14:08	Moses	Thanks :technomancy
14:08	technomancy	np
14:17	amalloy	seancorfield: you around? stackoverflow noticed an issue with data.priority-map
14:18	pandeiro	cemerick: is there a way i can use vars from another ns referring to javascript fns as strings with clutch/view-server-fns?
14:19	cemerick	pandeiro: Not sure what you mean.
14:19	cemerick	Oh, you just want to push some code-as-strings to the server?
14:19	pandeiro	cemerick: yup
14:19	pandeiro	it seems to be just taking the symbol and converting to string
14:20	pandeiro	instead of resolving it
14:20	pandeiro	maybe just don't use view-server-fns but update-document instead?
14:21	ToxicFrog	This marginalia thing looks neat.
14:25	cemerick	pandeiro: or force the resolution of the var at read-time with syntax-quote
14:27	pandeiro	cemerick: gotcha, but view-server-fns really isn't nec for my case i'm thinking
14:27	pandeiro	i do love how easily you can write :cljs views
14:27	cemerick	pandeiro: sure, if you're comfortable with the expected layout of view docs, then have at it with update-document
14:27	pandeiro	but the compilation time is killing me every time i restart the server while i am developing
14:28	pandeiro	cemerick: thanks, sorry to bother
14:28	cemerick	no bother :-)
14:28	cemerick	I think there's an issue for that; the cljs (or other language) source could be stored in the view doc, and only recompiled when it changes
14:29	SegFaultAX\|work2	Anyone else having trouble submitting solutions on 4clojure?
14:32	amalloy	argh, what do i need to put in my project.clj to get snapshots of clojure contrib projects? i've added :repositories [["sonatype-oss-public" "https://oss.sonatype.org/content/groups/public/"]], and have a dependency on [org.clojure/data.priority-map "0.0.2-SNAPSHOT"], and if i navigate to that URL in my browser i see that version; but leiningen seems to only be checking the default repos
14:44	whitaker	Anyone here familiar with issues using noir.util.test to drive noir-async related tests?
14:45	whitaker	Background...
14:46	whitaker	Relevant lein deps: [noir-async "1.1.0-beta9"] and [aleph "0.3.0-beta2"]
14:46	whitaker	:use'ing noir.util.test
14:47	whitaker	(and midje.sweet, though errors are the same with noir.test/deftest versions, I checked)
14:47	juhu_chapa	Hi all! Why the following expr returns false: (case "A" Class/staticValueEqualsToA true false)
14:47	whitaker	Example:
14:47	hiredman	,(doc case)
14:47	whitaker	(facts "about 'GET /server-name'"
14:47	whitaker	(:status (send-request "/server-name")) => 200)
14:47	clojurebot	"([e & clauses]); Takes an expression, and a set of clauses. Each clause can take the form of either: test-constant result-expr (test-constant1 ... test-constantN) result-expr The test-constants are not evaluated. They must be compile-time literals, and need not be quoted. If the expression is equal to a test-constant, the corresponding result-expr is returned. A single default expression can foll...
14:48	whitaker	In core:
14:48	whitaker	(na/defpage-async [:get "/server-name"] [] conn
14:48	whitaker	(na/async-push conn (str server-name "\n")))
14:48	whitaker	Works fine in the browser and on the command line
14:48	whitaker	But:
14:49	whitaker	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No implementation of method: :subscribe of protocol: #'lamina.core.result/IResult found for class: nil
14:49	whitaker	I have RTFM'd for days on this issue
14:49	whitaker	The 'na', by the way: required [noir-async.core :as na]
14:50	hiredman	whitaker: most likely noir's automatic code reloading is breaking lamina's protocols
14:50	whitaker	Ah
14:50	whitaker	Hmm
14:51	whitaker	Any suggested workaround? Lemme break out my -main, one sec...
14:51	hiredman	whitaker: please don't
14:51	whitaker	ok
14:51	whitaker	?
14:52	hiredman	whitaker: I'd suggest not using noir, but generally by the time I do that people have there code so entangled in noir they resist the idea
14:52	whitaker	I'm not emotionally tied to it
14:52	Moses	Just curious, what's wrong with noir?
14:52	hiredman	don't use noir, and don't use automatic code reloading
14:52	whitaker	I'm open to suggestions
14:53	whitaker	hiredman: what do you prefer?
14:53	whitaker	And is there a flag I can pass to disable auto code reloading?
14:53	hiredman	Moses: it is stateful and doesn't compose, is full of all kinds of (add-whatever calls) that need to happen in a certain order etc
14:53	hiredman	I use ring and compojure
14:53	Moses	Ah, thanks.
14:54	technomancy	compojure's route definitions are a lot nicer
14:54	technomancy	it's easy to see everything in one place, but also easy to follow things if you do need to spread them out
14:54	whitaker	In the last day, I've gotten the sense that noir isn't as… clean as its promoters might claim it to be.
14:54	hiredman	I haven't written anything with noir, but the few places I've seen it used the project would have been better served with ring+compojure
14:56	whitaker	I'm certainly at wits' end, and am perfectly willing to rip out all the noir code and try that approach.
14:57	whitaker	Problem for me is this, though: I need to be able to do websockets.
14:57	technomancy	part of the problem is that protocols don't play well with reloading, but at least if you're invoking the reloading manually it's a lot easier to do damage control.
14:57	whitaker	I found noir-async, and was trying to make it work, defining defpage-async where necessary and defaulting to defpage elsewhere.
14:58	Apage43	aleph has websocket built in, no?
14:58	whitaker	yes
14:58	whitaker	noir-aysnc is written on top of aleph
14:59	whitaker	s/noir-aysnc/noir-async
15:00	Moses	What tech stack do you guys use for compojure sites? Just compojure and ring, do you use a templating language? Is there anything else that's generally in your web development toolkit when using compojure?
15:00	Apage43	whitaker: you can use aleph with compjure directly with wrap-ring-handler/wrap-aleph-handler http://ztellman.github.com/aleph/aleph.http-api.html#aleph.http/wrap-aleph-handler
15:00	Apage43	as long as you wrap in both places it should work asyncly
15:01	Raynes	Moses: Compojure is just the routing portion of things. It is very specific and you definitely need other stuff to build a complex website.
15:01	whitaker	Apage43: much obliged, thanks
15:01	technomancy	Moses: I've taken to always pulling in environ and drawbridge as a matter of course. for templating you'll need to pick between hiccup and enlive based on how much tolerance for cleverness you have and the skillset of the people who'll be needing to write templates.
15:01	weavejester	Moses: I use Ring/Compojure/Hiccup with Environ for handling the config and Lein-Ring for running/testing.
15:02	Raynes	Moses: There is Hiccup, Enlive, and Stencil (mustache) for templating.
15:02	weavejester	I've also been working on Ragtime for migrations, and it's about ready for use.
15:02	Raynes	technomancy: Eh, if Hiccup or Enlive were my only options for templating I'd probably write websites in Haskell.
15:02	weavejester	Ouch! :)
15:02	kingtim	kingtim, D#scu3v3
15:02	Moses	Thank you all very much, I've been using Noir, but I recognize many of your names, and would prefer to just copy what you're all using, again, thanks very much.
15:02	Raynes	weavejester: Not that there is anything wrong with Hiccup!
15:03	SrPx	Is it possible to make macros so #(1% etc) can feature nested functions?
15:03	weavejester	Haha :)
15:03	technomancy	Hiccup is a joy for me to use but a bitter pill to swallow if you have non-clojurists working on a project.
15:03	Raynes	technomancy: Hiccup just got messy for me with larger projects, and it got harder for things to grow.
15:03	technomancy	I want to like Enlive, but I get lost working with it so easily =(
15:04	TimMc	Just needs a different API, I think.
15:04	technomancy	likely
15:04	whitaker	As for my own application, I have no need for templating: I'm doing a very thin, very simple JSON/plaintext RESTful interface for network device status polling.
15:04	Raynes	I still use hiccup for tryclj, though people have sought to change that (TimMc), but I have persevered.
15:04	dnolen_	whitaker: I looked around at the source - noir doesn't seem to expose a simple way to turn off reloading without disabling :dev. That said, seems like a simple patch.
15:04	technomancy	that's kind of indicative of the problems with noir in general
15:04	TimMc	I want to carve out some time to write relying code against that non-existent better Enlive API.
15:05	technomancy	orthogonal things aren't exposed orthogonally; everything's bundled together
15:05	dnolen_	technomancy: it's complected for sure. But decomplecting is often an incremental affair.
15:05	whitaker	dnolen_: thanks. And to technomancy's point, it might not be worth the bother to fork/pull request a fix.
15:06	dnolen_	whitaker: sure, which I'm sure you'll figure out soon enough ;)
15:06	Urthwhyte	While you guys are on the topic of web dev stuff, could you suggest a sinatra-esque clojure framework?
15:06	Raynes	technomancy, dnolen_: If you decomplect Noir you get Compojure.
15:06	technomancy	actually my other complaints I were thinking of were with korma now that I think about it
15:06	Raynes	I recently came to that realization.
15:06	Urthwhyte	I'm a Python/Ruby guy who learned Scheme as his first language and is trying to get back into lisp
15:06	whitaker	dnolen_: heh… "complected"… I just yesterday listed to Rich Hickey's talk wherein he (re)introduces that archaicism into the language
15:06	dnolen_	Raynes: having things decomplected doesn't mean sugar ain't good.
15:06	Raynes	dnolen_: But there isn't really any sugar there.
15:07	Raynes	It's just a slightly different syntax for routes with mutability tying them together instead of an outer defroutes.
15:07	Raynes	And because of that, a whole host of issues with doing interesting things with middleware and such.
15:08	dnolen_	Raynes: noir is sugar over compojure+ring - a few more knobs would be nice. in anycase I don't really have that strong of an opinion about it. people seem happy w/ noir since you don't have to go sniffing around in the source quite as much.
15:08	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: I'm sorry. I just had to hammer the API endpoint for 4clojure for about 30 seconds.
15:08	whitaker	Urthwhyte: similar career arc myself. Read SICP years ago, couldn't use it vocationally, did the usual C/Perl/C++/Java/Python/Ruby/Rails thing for years, recently found Clojure, now working with it. At work. Yay me.
15:09	Raynes	SegFaultAX\|work2: You reduced amalloy's health bar to half!
15:09	Urthwhyte	work for me right now is Java :/
15:09	SegFaultAX\|work2	Raynes: :D
15:09	Urthwhyte	well, internship
15:09	Raynes	amalloy: Quick, quaff a health potion!
15:09	SegFaultAX\|work2	Raynes: I was making this: https://gist.github.com/3607101
15:09	Urthwhyte	so much boilerplate :(
15:09	SegFaultAX\|work2	Raynes: All my solutions. Need to collect the title and difficulty for each problem I've solved.
15:10	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work2: why would i care? hammer away; i don't think a single computer can generate enough traffic to do much damage
15:10	Raynes	SegFaultAX\|work2: You should make a little website for extracting solutions like that for other people.
15:10	Raynes	I'm sure people would find it useful.
15:10	SegFaultAX\|work2	Raynes: I talked to amally about extending the API to allow fetching of solutions.
15:10	Raynes	amalloy: I think people get wrong ideas about the fragility of our infrastructure because of how 4clojure goes down all the time.
15:10	SegFaultAX\|work2	Raynes: To do this I had to ask for a dump right from mongo.
15:10	ivaraasen	whitaker: somewhat similar situation here. I study petroleum engineering. lots of Matlab and Java spaghetti code.
15:11	pandeiro	i am a newb compared to all of you but i think the answer to the noir issue are more specialized compojure templates for general webapp categories
15:11	pandeiro	that is what i myself have resorted to
15:11	Urthwhyte	I've been tempted to write a book wrapped around 4clojure
15:11	amalloy	well yes, i suppose that's a fair assumption for them to make. because our infrastructure is rubbish
15:11	Raynes	pandeiro: That's basically my idea.
15:11	technomancy	pandeiro: yeah, I wrote a template for heroku compojure apps that adds stacktrace middleware, environ, and drawbridge
15:11	Raynes	amalloy: Well, not really. We can handle a huge load (lol), it just goes down because we allow code eval in a shitty sandbox.
15:11	pandeiro	kind of like compojure already has 'api' and 'site'... a few more middleware bundles and lein templates for slightly more specialized use cases and voila
15:12	technomancy	pandeiro: the great thing about templates is that they expose the composition of orthogonal components in really visible ways
15:12	SrPx	Wow is it me or this channel is way more active than when I first came in?
15:12	SegFaultAX\|work2	SrPx: That depends on what you first came in I think.
15:12	whitaker	ivaraasen: Matlab… ugh. Of course, I'm having to use Octave for Andrew Ng's Machine Learning course, so I'm having to deal with it again (I'd thought I'd left Matlab when I left academia)
15:12	SrPx	4 months ago SegFaultAX\|work2
15:12	amalloy	right. so we do a lot of things well, and a few things terribly that brings the whole site down. sounds like a rubbish infrastructure to me!
15:12	Urthwhyte	whitaker, ivaraasen: It's better than sage ;)
15:12	hiredman	win 15
15:13	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Did you see the output of the dump you gave me?
15:13	amalloy	yeah, it's pretty
15:13	amalloy	i command you! add an API endpoint to expose user solutions!
15:13	SegFaultAX\|work2	I feel ashamed, though. I did it in Python.
15:13	SegFaultAX\|work2	I don't know the json, HTTP, and file IO APIs yet.
15:14	SrPx	Anyway, nobody answered. Can I somehow use macros or something to make this kind of syntax: ((#(a? b?') {a:1 b:2}) {a:3 b:4}), output: (1 3) .
15:14	amalloy	cheshire, slurp, and clojure.java.io, respectively, probably solve your problems
15:15	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Yea, I'm just not quite there yet.
15:15	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: My additions to 4clojure API might be my first actually beneficial addition in Clojure :)
15:15	SegFaultAX\|work2	Scrum time, bbl.
15:16	amalloy	SrPx: the code you pasted makes no sense at all. i can't figure out what meanings you would assign to get the output you expect
15:16	shaungilchrist	SrPx: it sounds like you want type based "apply"
15:17	ivaraasen	whitaker: granted, gradient descent and all that is somewhat of a pretty thing in Matlab. but my professors tend to obfuscate even the simplest of code anyway
15:17	whitaker	Huh… dammit, looks like I'd been wasting my time fighting with noir-async, when I could have used this approach: https://gist.github.com/656227
15:19	whitaker	ivaraasen: Octave's support for gradient descent (i.e. gradient ascent for minimization, sign-flipped ;-)) is pretty sweet. I was thinking of finding its Clojure/Incanter equivalent and playing with it.
15:20	lnostdal	hi guys, this pops up from time to time, but perhaps things have changed now (a new library or something new in git?) .. but is it possible to do inheritance the "old way" in clojure somehow?
15:21	TimMc	inheritance?
15:21	clojurebot	multiple inheritance is http://www.piratejesus.com/nerdcore/nerdcore017.gif
15:21	whitaker	Someone mentioned a few weeks ago at a San Francisco Clojure Meetup I attended that he'd "done Ng's machine learning course in Clojure"; I've been meaning to track him down and ask about it
15:21	TimMc	not helpful, clojurebot
15:21	SrPx	amalloy: #(a% b%') would mean a function that receives a hash, gets the 'a' value on that hash (Ill call it x), and returns a function that receives another hash, gets the 'b' element of that hash (Ill call it y), and returns (x y). Or, in JavaScript (I dont know Clojure well enough to write that): (function(x){ return function(y){ return [x.a,y.b]; }})({a:1,b:2})({a:3,b:4});
15:21	dnolen_	lnostdal: not really. wouldn't be hard to construct something from scratch if you really want it. otherwise just use delegation.
15:21	weavejester	The drawbridge example could probably be more concisely expressed with the context macro
15:21	SrPx	amalloy: or, in other words, a short syntax for lambdas which allows nested functions
15:22	ivaraasen	whitaker: just found a small implementation of SGD in Clojure myself
15:22	lnostdal	ok, thanks
15:22	weavejester	e.g. (context "/repl" [] (cemerick.drawbridge/ring-handler))
15:22	whitaker	ivarassen: in the Incanter libs?
15:22	ivaraasen	whitaker: no, it's this small repo on github
15:23	whitaker	url pls?
15:23	dnolen_	lnostdal: I'm surprised no one's done a Tiny / Medium CLOS, seems like everything you would need to build it is there - and it could probably even be really fast.
15:25	lnostdal	dnolen_: hm, yeah .. just single dispatch would at least (jvm limitation i think)
15:26	lnostdal	but even that would be good enough for many cases ..
15:28	whitaker	OK, for those who care, it was Terje Norderhaug, the maintainer of MCLIDE, who'd mentioned at http://www.meetup.com/The-Bay-Area-Clojure-User-Group/events/47874302/ that he'd done Ng's ML course "in Clojure"; not sure what that means in respect of auto grading code & such (only starting the 3rd week of the course today)
15:28	ro_st	is there a way to have ring force no-cache on all the stuff it serves?
15:29	weavejester	ro_st: Add some middleware to add a no-cache Cache-Control header?
15:29	ro_st	simple as that?
15:29	ro_st	will that work for static resources, too? i'm using noir
15:31	Urthwhyte	if your static resources are being served through ring there's no reason it wouldn't
15:35	pandeiro	weavejester: where is the drawbridge example you were referring to?
15:36	weavejester	pandeiro: Oh, on it's README. When I Github-searched, I got technomancy's repo first, so I mistook who was maintaining it.
15:36	weavejester	pandeiro: Github search could be better :/
15:37	ro_st	this should do it, right? https://www.refheap.com/paste/4872
15:38	pandeiro	weavejester: np, found it; re: github i do like the repo filter box on individual users' pages tho
15:40	ro_st	that middleware breaks static stuff
15:41	cemerick	weavejester: I would have used context, but I didn't want to require compojure.
15:42	weavejester	cemerick: I just meant on the example in the README, not in the library
15:42	cemerick	Sure. s/require/presume, then
15:42	pandeiro	weavejester: i am putting together an api with (context "/api" [] api/endpoints) and now i want to break the api into a few categories (different namespaces) - can i do that composably?
15:43	ro_st	pandeiro: what does multiple (context "/" …) do?
15:44	ro_st	if that allows all of them to operate, perhaps api/endpoints could do this internall
15:44	ro_st	y
15:44	pandeiro	ro_st: i am still clunky with ring handlers at the rEPL, gonna try to see that though
15:45	ro_st	in api, (defroutes endpoints (context "/" (composed1/endpoints)) (context "/" (composed2/endpoints))
15:46	ro_st	i'm also a compojure noob so that could blow up
15:46	weavejester	context tables a set of bindings
15:46	weavejester	tables=takes
15:46	pandeiro	ro_st: i'm wondering if i can just do (context "/api" [] auth/endpoints user/endpoints document/endpoints) or similar
15:46	weavejester	And there's no point in doing (context "/" …) :)
15:47	weavejester	pandeiro: That's valid, if all the endpoints are handlers
15:47	pandeiro	right i understood context is just to avoid having to retype an internal part of the path
15:47	ro_st	how would pandeiro compose multiple defroutes into a single context, weavejester?
15:47	ro_st	ah
15:47	weavejester	Right
15:47	pandeiro	weavejester: all the endpoints are defroites
15:47	SrPx	As nobody answered: can I use macros to somehow enable a syntax like this: (%a %b') . That would be an anonymous function that receives an object, gets object.a, then returns a function that receives another object, gets object.b and returns.
15:47	pandeiro	defroutes
15:47	ro_st	super!
15:48	weavejester	ro_st: It's routes all the way down. defroutes (or routes) just combines multiple routes into one.
15:48	ro_st	neat
15:48	pandeiro	it is a pleasure learning compojure
15:48	SrPx	ro_st: ? ;s
15:49	ro_st	weavejester: using noir, why would https://www.refheap.com/paste/4872 cause all my static files to 404 instead?
15:49	ro_st	forgive my laziness in asking you this. been a long day :-(
15:49	amalloy	SrPx: that syntax is not possible, and as an uninvited editorial it sounds like an awful thing to have if it were possible
15:49	cemerick	SrPx: No.
15:50	SrPx	amalloy: why?
15:50	shaungilchrist	it does not really make sense why %a would refer to one application and %b to the next
15:51	shaungilchrist	or is that what the single quote after b is meant to denote?
15:51	weavejester	ro_st: I can't see anything wrong with that middleware. Could it be something else? Perhaps where you apply it?
15:51	amalloy	it's an absurdly over-specialized syntax for a very rare thing to want to do
15:51	SrPx	shaungilchrist: %b would refer to the next because of the '. It could be anything else
15:51	SrPx	shaungilchrist: yes
15:51	weavejester	,(assoc-in nil [:headers "Foo"] "Bar")
15:51	clojurebot	{:headers {"Foo" "Bar"}}
15:51	SrPx	(%a %b'' %c') would get a, then c, then b, of hashes, in order of application
15:51	weavejester	ro_st: If (handler request) returns nil, then the assoc-in would change it into a map.
15:52	SrPx	So bad it is not possible }:
15:52	SrPx	but oaky
15:52	shaungilchrist	well such a thing could be done but with a normal macro e.g. (craziness [:a :b']) etc.
15:52	SrPx	thanks
15:52	ro_st	ah, that's good to know
15:53	amalloy	entertainingly, ro_st, monads don't have anything to do with SrPx's problem, but a maybe monad would have avoided yours
15:54	ro_st	ok i'm doing something basically wrong. the headers i'm adding aren't the issue
15:54	ro_st	amalloy: -grin- i just read about monads in Marick's fp-oo book. i'm an utter noob at this stuff. makes my brain fizz. love learning about it
15:54	SrPx	shaungilchrist: sorry, I dont understand this? Im pretty much asking if macros could be used to transform something like (make-my-fun (%a %b')) into (I guess, not sure if this is right): (fn [o1] (fn [o2] [o1.a o1.b]))
15:55	dnolen_	SrPx: it's possible
15:56	shaungilchrist	SrPx: yes it could but in your example you just had (#(%a %b') ...) and (without hackery) that is not something you can control via macro (symbols in an anon func)
15:57	SrPx	shaungilchrist: yes. I was not sure people were saying it was not possible because of the syntax or because macros couldnt do the job
15:57	SrPx	(the problem is that my syntax was conflicting with clojures, right?)
15:58	dnolen_	SrPx: you can't override the meaningof #. and yes the macro can take whatever follows unevaluated, so you can embed whatever language you want.
15:58	shaungilchrist	yes, you just need to examine the symbols
16:00	ro_st	hey dnolen_! how's the source map quest going?
16:01	ro_st	ah. some middleware running after my own is seeing a blank response and then doing a filesystem search. and since i'm writing headers, the response isn't blank, and it doesn't look on disk any more
16:02	ro_st	Raynes! help! :-)
16:02	SrPx	dnolen_: Nice!
16:02	SrPx	Just another question
16:03	dnolen_	ro_st: OK, can decode the GClosure source map, I have rough plan for how to emit source map info from the compiler. Next step writing some source map generating code.
16:03	SrPx	Is it possible to make a 'macro' or something that will affect everything in a clojure program? For example, could I somehow make a rule that would change every string ever created with the a format like '15...190' into (range 15 190)? Or a macro that would change any hash containing this keyval pair: a:1 into something else?
16:03	ro_st	you mean from cljs compiler
16:03	dnolen_	ro_st: after that it'll be figuring what the best way to merge that info is.
16:04	dnolen_	SrPx: no
16:04	ro_st	SrPx: that's the clojure reader's job. rhickey has the keys to that.
16:04	shaungilchrist	SrPx: "yes" but with the caveat that it would in fact be a preparser step
16:05	shaungilchrist	so you'd be creating .clsrpx files
16:05	ro_st	github.com/lynaghk/cljx for a fun example of that
16:05	kenneth	hey what happens if a thread throws an exception
16:06	ro_st	you wanna narrow that question down some, kenneth? some folks might get wordy on you
16:06	ro_st	-grin-
16:07	solussd	Does anyone have any idea what this means? (clojurescript is throwing it: uncaught exception: No dispatch macro for m
16:07	hiredman	you have #m somewhere
16:07	hiredman	,#m
16:07	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
16:07	hiredman	clojurebot: jerk
16:07	clojurebot	you cut me deep, man.
16:08	hiredman	,#m foo
16:08	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: No reader function for tag m>
16:08	abalone	~loop
16:08	clojurebot	LOOP is complect complected
16:08	solussd	oh geez.
16:09	abalone	if i want to poll for a condition, is there something i should use instead of loop?
16:09	TimMc	abalone: Have you looked at while?
16:09	amalloy	hiredman, solussd: he has #m, but is probably using a version of clojure before 1.4, where i think the error message for #m f changed
16:09	kenneth	alright, say i'm launching a thread using (.start (Thread. …)) and i'm catching exceptions inside the main thread but i don't have any try/catches inside the launched thread
16:09	hiredman	amalloy: he is using clojurescript
16:09	solussd	hiredman: afaict i do not… :/ hmm… I'll keep looking I guess
16:09	kenneth	will the main thread catch them, will they crash the program, crash just the thread?
16:09	TimMc	,# m foo
16:09	hiredman	solussd: don't worry, you do, you'll find it
16:09	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: No reader function for tag m>
16:10	amalloy	$google java thread uncaughtexceptionhandler
16:10	lazybot	[Thread.UncaughtExceptionHandler (Java 2 Platform SE 5.0)] http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Thread.UncaughtExceptionHandler.html
16:10	TimMc	solussd: Look for /#\s+m/
16:10	TimMc	you probably have whitespace between the two
16:10	amalloy	TimMc: no good; it's probably being generated by some code somewhere, and he's barfing when he reads it
16:11	solussd	oh, space after the #, got it..
16:11	kenneth	oh, also, is there a way to pretty-print an exception from the object
16:11	solussd	second the "must be generated"..
16:12	SrPx	shaungilchrist: but wait. with that you mean it would not be a dynamic behaviour, right?
16:13	SrPx	shaungilchrist: I could not expect to implement a rule that would update every hash containing x > 10 into x = 10 and hope it would work if some hash happened to have x > 10 mid execution, right? This would just be impossible in clojure? (and I guess any language)
16:13	solussd	,#m blah
16:13	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: No reader function for tag m>
16:13	solussd	,# m ldsfkj
16:13	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: No reader function for tag m>
16:13	abalone	TimMc: is there something like while which lets me refer to the result of the test?
16:13	SrPx	ro_st: reading about that brb
16:13	solussd	yeah, that was it-- "serialized" record being fed to clojurescript
16:14	solussd	or, printed record, rather
16:14	abalone	TimMc: that is, while polling and not getting the desired value, i'd like to report what the current offending value is and when i use 'while' instead of loop i lose the value
16:16	whitaker	dnolen_ technomancy & others: thanks for help earlier, looks like ring + compojure works fine for me.
16:19	TimMc	abalone: loop is probably better, then.
16:19	TimMc	Make a let-while or something.
16:19	TimMc	*while-let
16:20	amalloy	abalone: what condition are you polling?
16:30	bergelmir	is there something special i need to do to install :dev-dependencies?
16:31	bergelmir	i have "lein-conjure" in :dev-dependencies but it won't be installed by "lein deps"
16:31	clojurebot	lein deps is the equivalent of taking the cartridge out and blowing on it
16:31	technomancy	bergelmir: :dev-dependencies are deprecated; they're only used in lein 1.x
16:31	technomancy	conjure, huh? is that still around?
16:32	TimMc	technomancy: Oho, "deprecated". Is lein 2.x released?
16:32	technomancy	TimMc: it's released enough.
16:32	TimMc	heh
16:32	bergelmir	i have lein 2.0.0-p7 installed
16:32	technomancy	bergelmir: yeah, whatever docs told you to put something in :dev-dependencies must be pretty old
16:33	technomancy	are you just getting started with clojure?
16:33	bergelmir	yep :)
16:33	technomancy	conjure might not be the best bet for that; it's pretty obscure
16:33	technomancy	I recommend reading up on compojure and ring
16:34	technomancy	clojurebot: google brehaut ring compojure
16:34	clojurebot	First, out of 19 results is:
16:34	clojurebot	A Lazy Sequence: A Brief Overview of the Clojure Web Stack - Brehaut
16:34	clojurebot	http://brehaut.net/blog/2011/ring_introduction
16:34	technomancy	^ good place to start
16:34	rbxbx	technomancy I know peeps were just talking about how noir is a mixed bag with too much coupling, but I think noir is a nice place to get your feet wet...
16:34	amalloy	technomancy: ughhh, $google doesn't waste nearly as many newlines
16:34	technomancy	amalloy: heh; noted for next time =)
16:35	uvtc	I see Conjure listed at the Clojure Toolbox along with some others.
16:36	technomancy	uvtc: see, in my eyes that's an indictment of the manually-curated approach as a whole =)
16:36	technomancy	compare http://clojuresphere.herokuapp.com/conjure/conjure vs http://clojuresphere.herokuapp.com/compojure/compojure
16:36	uvtc	technomancy: I think manually curated works when the community as a whole is doing the curating. Getting people involved is another problem though.
16:38	technomancy	uvtc: agreed
16:38	technomancy	it's possible if everyone's on board; it's just incredibly difficult to get there
16:39	jkkramer	technomancy: FYI there's clojuresphere.com now. do you know if there's a way to redirect *.herokuapp.com?
16:39	bergelmir	okay, will have a look at compojure and ring and thanks for the link ;)
16:39	cemerick	curation vs. bubbling are good at different things, of course
16:40	uvtc	cemerick: By "bubbling" do you mean the clojuresphere approach?
16:40	cemerick	yes
16:40	cemerick	maybe "statistical methods" is a better term
16:41	technomancy	jkkramer: off the top of my head I'd do it in a middleware; not sure if there's a platform-level feature for that
16:41	amalloy	jkkramer: is clojuresphere.com pointing to the heroku IP, or is it a different server?
16:41	technomancy	I'll look into it
16:41	technomancy	because I really should know this =)
16:42	jkkramer	amalloy: pointing to heroku
16:42	technomancy	amalloy: CNAME usually
16:42	SegFaultAX\|work2	ClojureSphere is pretty neat.
16:42	amalloy	jkkramer: 4clojure has a middleware for redirecting 4clojure.org to www.4clojure.com, if you're looking for something to steal
16:42	jkkramer	I figured it could be done in-app…wasn't sure if heroku had another way
16:43	technomancy	jkkramer: at least with SSL redirects they're done in userland
16:43	jkkramer	amalloy: I will do that. I already stole your gzip middleware fork
16:44	amalloy	start with https://github.com/4clojure/4clojure/blob/develop/src/foreclojure/ring.clj#L57 but it's kinda messy as it is now; if you happen to clean it up while you're in there i'd be happy to take a pull request
16:45	jkkramer	amalloy: k will see, thanks
16:49	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Did you know that /datatable/users 500's on 4clojure?
16:50	abalone	amalloy: i'm polling the state of a windows service using sc.exe
16:50	SegFaultAX\|work2	I'm assuming that's the end-point that drives the user listing. Should it return some default page?
16:52	amalloy	passing it no arguments is an error
16:52	amalloy	if you want to know how to use that page you'll have to read up on the datatables server-side processing language/protocol/whatever
16:52	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: I'm working my way through the source now.
16:52	bergelmir	https://github.com/weavejester/compojure/wiki/Getting-Started --> lein compojure new hello-world --> "compojure is not a task"
16:53	weavejester	bergelmir: Are you using Lein 2?
16:53	bergelmir	weavejester: Leiningen 2.0.0-preview7 on Java 1.7.0_05 Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM
16:53	weavejester	bergelmir: Oh, you've just got the "new" and "compojure" the wrong way round
16:54	weavejester	bergelmir: lein new compojure hello-world
16:54	bergelmir	hmpf :)
16:57	bergelmir	why aren't there any packages available at repo1.maven.org/maven2? lein is always trying to get the packages from that repo but there aren't any packages...
16:57	uvtc	bergelmir: lein always checks there first, before clojars.
16:58	bergelmir	uvtc: yeah but i am always getting "could not find artifact ..." for that repo. why don't they change the order?
16:59	xeqi	because maven central was around first, and is the canonical place to looks for jars
17:00	technomancy	there's an open issue for decreasing the verbosity
17:00	bergelmir	localhost:3000 --> Hello World
17:00	technomancy	you're just seeing the behaviour of the underlying libraries that we haven't figured out how to change yet
17:00	bergelmir	yay :)
17:01	xeqi	* spent time to
17:05	uvtc	Maybe if the successful clojars download messages were colored green in my terminal I wouldn't mind seeing all those "could not find at maven repo!" messages. :)
17:06	amalloy	uvtc: just switch your whole terminal to green on black. then everything looks successful! very soothing
17:07	technomancy	preferably with the glastty font
17:08	amalloy	what is it you like about glasstty?
17:09	uvtc	technomancy: I read that as "ghastly" font.
17:09	amalloy	does it just remind you of ye good olde days? it looks terribly illegible to me, but i'm willing to accept that maybe that's my fault for not seeing well
17:09	tanzoniteblack	uvtc: you might as well have read that correctly :)
17:09	technomancy	amalloy: here's the problem; computers are too small. you can't go running around the console's blinkenlights making things happen like when the doctor is flying the tardis. so you need alternate methods to add a theatrical flair.
17:10	uvtc	Well, anyway, when a terminal-based program gives me colored output, color me pleasantly surprised.
17:11	scriptor	technomancy: so…movieOS?
17:11	amalloy	uvtc: always withold your pleasant surprise until you check whether it produces reasonable output when you redirect it to a file as well
17:11	technomancy	scriptor: yes, precisely.
17:11	amalloy	(or to a pipe, or whatever). if it inserts ansi control characters even when it's not going to a terminal, murder the author
17:12	uvtc	amalloy: yup, it certainly should be careful to check if it's being used interactively.
17:24	unlink	I'm often tempted to do something like (update-in some-map [just-one-key] a-fn) just so that I don't have to name the map again (as I would with assoc). Is there a version of update-in that just takes one key?
17:27	amalloy	no
17:30	unlink	what's the idiomatic way of doing this, then: (let [... headers (update-in (:headers response) ["content-length"] #(Integer/parseInt %)) ...] ...)
17:32	gfredericks	I think that's it :(
17:32	gfredericks	I end up defining my own update function half the time
17:32	gfredericks	if I do that more than once in a file
17:32	jeremyheiler	&(update-in {:a {"b" 1}} [:a "b"] inc)
17:32	lazybot	⇒ {:a {"b" 2}}
17:33	unlink	It's very tempting to use ->, because then I wouldn't need to wrap Integer/parseInt in an anonymous function.
17:33	gfredericks	how would you do it with ->?
17:33	jeremyheiler	Integer/parseInt isn't a function, so you still need to wrap it.
17:35	hyPiRion	,(update-in {"content-length" "1000"} ["content-length"] read-string)
17:35	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ?? in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
17:35	hyPiRion	,(update-in {"content-length" "1000"} ["content-length"] read-string)
17:35	clojurebot	{"content-length" 1000}
17:36	hyPiRion	But I'd go for #(Integer/parseInt %) if I were you.
17:36	unlink	(let [... headers (assoc (:headers response) "content-length" (-> response :headers (get "content-length") (Integer/parseInt))) ...] ...)
17:37	amalloy	unlink: baaaarrrrf. use update-in for sure
17:37	unlink	right, naming response twice is not nice.
17:37	gfredericks	not to mention "content-length"
17:37	unlink	I have a slight allergic reaction to anonymous functions, though.
17:37	gfredericks	use read-string then
17:38	unlink	read-string is worse, though, because then I need to ensure read-eval is bound to false.
17:38	hyPiRion	unlink: Well, you could do (defn read-int [string] (Integer/parseInt string))
17:38	hyPiRion	then it's not anonymous anymore.
17:38	gfredericks	dammit when can we get rid of read-eval
17:38	gfredericks	it's scaring everybody off
17:39	unlink	heh, that's true, but I think #(Integer/parseInt %) is more idiomatic.
17:39	unlink	(with (-> ... (Integer/parseInt)) being the most idiomatic of all, when it's possible)
17:39	unlink	(that is to say, not here.)
17:40	hyPiRion	Well, it's more or less idiomatic because of java interop. You'd generally prefer some Clojure variant if that existed.
17:40	amalloy	gfredericks: i wouldn't be astonished to see it gone in, say, clojure 1.6
17:40	gfredericks	amalloy: at the very least defaulted to false
17:40	amalloy	meh. defaulted to false isn't useful at all. nobody will ever turn it on
17:41	hyPiRion	Stuff will break regardless, won't it?
17:41	technomancy	wouldn't be the first time stuff was intentionally broken in a minor release
17:42	technomancy	though to be fair, breaking undocumented behaviour is less of a problem
17:43	hyPiRion	,(doc read-eval)
17:43	clojurebot	"; When set to logical false, the EvalReader (#=(...)) is disabled in the read/load in the thread-local binding. Example: (binding [read-eval false] (read-string \"#=(eval (def x 3))\")) Defaults to true"
17:44	gtrak	weavejester: re lein-ring issue 45, I'm willing to fix it if you think it's a good idea, otherwise I'll use my hand-rolled stuff
17:44	weavejester	gtrak: I managed to miss that one. Let me take a look.
17:45	gtrak	I just put it in a second ago
17:46	weavejester	gtrak: That would explain it :)
17:46	gtrak	I kinda just assumed that would work
17:46	gtrak	it didn't :-)
17:48	weavejester	gtrak: Let me think about it. It could be implemented in ring-server in a ring.server.webxml namespace… or perhaps ring.server.legacy :)
17:48	weavejester	gtrak: What custom stuff do you have in web.xml?
17:49	weavejester	In general I like to steer people away from Java web dev when possible :)
17:49	gtrak	we need it right now for jetty's CrossOriginFilter, I tried to use ring-cors and it wasn't apparent why it didn't work, but I'd just like to have the option to use servlet stuff when necessary.
17:52	gtrak	for instance, previously I had a whole 'nother servlet app embedded into the clojure app, but I got rid of that when my coworkers decided I should just reimplement it in clojure
17:53	gtrak	meanwhile, having the option in the first place let our UI guy get started immediately instead of having to wait
17:55	weavejester	I think it's reasonable to have as a last resort… for when you really really need to stoop to using web.xml.
17:55	gtrak	yea, a .legacy ns should inform people they need to feel dirty while doing it
17:55	weavejester	Perhaps the presence of a manual web.xml would trigger it.
17:58	gtrak	yea, I can imagine a scenario where you don't want a web.xml during development either, I'd be comfortable with a flag
18:03	unlink	Using read-string when you mean Integer/parseInt is simply less robust. It's much easier to do it wrong that way.
18:03	unlink	read-string isn't going to throw a NumberFormatException on "abc123"
18:03	unlink	sorry, "abc"
18:03	Frozenlock`	js/cljs question: I'm trying to use the google datepicker, following this example: http://closure-library.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/closure/goog/demos/datepicker.html. Nothing too fancy, should be easy enough... but I was wrong! I expected this to at least show me the datepicker: (.render (goog.ui.DatePicker.) (domina/by-id "date")). Yet I get this error: #<TypeError: object is not a function>. Did I call js in a bad way?
18:04	hiredman	Frozenlock`: are you sure you didn't forget the . in thr constructor?
18:04	hiredman	(goog.ui.DatePicker) vs. (goog.ui.DatePicker.)
18:05	Frozenlock`	Yes, I pasted exactly what I typed in my REPL.
18:06	S11001001	unlink: I've had a prod bug due to using Integer/parseInt instead of read-string, where read-string was the fix.
18:07	auser	hola
18:08	unlink	S11001001: You probably didn't mean Integer/parseInt, then.
18:08	S11001001	unlink: I meant parse an integer
18:09	unlink	How was parseInt failing
18:09	S11001001	unlink: overflow
18:11	Raynes	&(Long. "123424354524657567457665")
18:11	lazybot	java.lang.NumberFormatException: For input string: "123424354524657567457665"
18:11	Raynes	Heh
18:11	gtrak	tooo long
18:11	gtrak	long is shorter
18:25	Frozenlock`	Ok now I'm really confused. (def dp (goog.ui.DatePicker.)), (.render (goog.ui.DatePicker.) (domina/by-id "date")) --> #<TypeError: object is not a function> Ok, no surprise here. However, if I do it again: (.render (goog.ui.DatePicker.) (domina/by-id "date")) --> #<TypeError: object is not a function> AAAAND the goog-date-picker div is added in my DOM.
18:26	Frozenlock`	So I get an error buuuuut the object is added. o_O
18:26	Frozenlock`	I still don't see any in the browser, but in the dom explorer it's there.
18:33	nDuff	Frozenlock: Have you looked at the generated javascript (and the stack trace it throws) to figure out exactly where the error is?
18:33	nDuff	Frozenlock: ...generally speaking, that's where I've tended to start (without advanced-mode compilation, of course) when successfully debugging cljs.
18:36	Frozenlock`	Yes, but I don't see anything enlightening (keep in mind that I have but a very basic understanding of js)
18:37	Frozenlock`	https://www.refheap.com/paste/4875
18:37	Frozenlock`	(first 3 lines)
18:37	nDuff	That's not very helpful without having the generated javascript next to it.
18:39	Frozenlock`	er... How do I get the generated javascript from the repl?
18:40	nDuff	Use a browser that shows it to you in the debugger? :)
18:40	nDuff	Chrome does that out-of-the-box.
18:41	nDuff	(once you know where the break-on-exception button is, anyhow)
18:42	Frozenlock`	I'm sure I can find that, please don't go away :p
18:51	Frozenlock`	oh wow, that was long
18:54	Frozenlock`	https://www.refheap.com/paste/4876#L-10
18:54	mdeboard	Anyone here have overwhelmingly positive experience developing Clojure using an IDE instead of emacs/vim?
18:54	nvy	mdeboard: which IDE?
18:54	mdeboard	nvy: Any.
18:55	nvy	I thought emacs was an IDE
18:55	mdeboard	Nah, not IMO. Though to what degree it isn't an IDE depends on the mode I guess.
18:56	nvy	good point
18:56	technomancy	pedantically, it's hard to come up with a definition of IDE that excludes Emacs
18:57	kenneth	(let [head-match #(.equals (String. %2 0 (min (.length %2) (count %1))) %1 )]
18:57	kenneth	hey so i'm defining head-match as a function to that takes two args, a string and a byte array
18:58	kenneth	right now it crashes on .length, i thought that byte arrays had a length function?
18:58	hiredman	technomancy: I think you could if you said "does X well" instead of just
18:58	xeqi	&(.length (byte-array 3))
18:58	hiredman	does X"
18:58	mdeboard	zing
18:58	technomancy	oh snap
18:58	mdeboard	true though
18:58	xeqi	,(.length (byte-array 3))
18:58	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: length for class [B>
18:58	mdeboard	It's hard to come up with a definition of "IRC client" that excludes emacs
18:59	technomancy	"An IDE is a thing that is designed to let you write Java."
18:59	mdeboard	lol
18:59	hiredman	hahah
18:59	mdeboard	ANYWAY
18:59	brehaut	technomancy: Or compile a MS language project
18:59	mdeboard	My original question was if anyone would recommend using Intellij/emacs/etc over emacs/vim for writing Clojure
19:00	mdeboard	er
19:00	mdeboard	IntelliJ/Emacs
19:00	tanzoniteblack	technomancy: so coincidentally doing that excludes it since it wasn't designed for it? Hm...similarly, does that mean that my mousepad isn't a coaster since it wasn't designed for that?
19:00	mdeboard	GOD DAMMIT
19:00	mdeboard	IntelliJ/eclipse
19:00	mdeboard	Pardon my language.
19:00	hiredman	I've explored a lot of java codebases using emacs, but written very little java in emacs
19:00	kenneth	xeqi: right, so what's up with that?
19:00	nDuff	mdeboard: Personally, I've tried the available IDEs, and my answer is a resounding "no"
19:00	nDuff	mdeboard: ...that said, given the survey results, there certainly are people who disagree.
19:00	nDuff	~survey
19:00	clojurebot	survey is http://cemerick.com/2012/08/06/results-of-the-2012-state-of-clojure-survey/
19:00	technomancy	tanzoniteblack: Emacs grudgingly allows you to write java
19:00	xeqi	it sounds like the eclipse w/ counterclockwise is the best of them
19:00	mdeboard	nDuff: Yeah but most people are very bad programmers.
19:01	xeqi	having never used any
19:01	mdeboard	I ask because I've been using MonoDevelop with a C# application we have at work and it's been pretty nice.
19:01	tanzoniteblack	mdeboard: I use Eclipse for most Java projects at work, but couldn't stand using it for Clojure
19:01	mdeboard	Also because I'm giving a "Why CLojure" talk at the local Scala meetup next week.
19:01	mdeboard	tanzoniteblack: Why is that
19:01	nDuff	...right tool for the right job and such.
19:03	SegFaultAX\|work2	mdeboard: Are you going to subtitle it "... is better than Scala"?
19:03	tanzoniteblack	mdeboard: Only real benefit I've seen to use Eclipse is if you're working with a large code base that's not yours, then eclipse gives intelligent completion options for methods/fields. the clojure plugins didn't seem to give me that very well (or maybe I just wasn't working with a large code base...or maybe I just prefer Emacs, which is what I use for IRC, Python, org-mode, etc. etc.)
19:04	cemerick	Any from #{emacs vim eclipse} will do. Use what you're comfortable with and what you know.
19:04	nDuff	tanzoniteblack: Emacs Live does a pretty decent job of that too out-of-the-box (re: method/field completion)
19:04	tanzoniteblack	mdeboard: i.e. I might be a bit biased towards emacs anyways; especially since it's what I used for common lisp before hand
19:04	technomancy	it's a shame enclojure seems to have disappeared because it had a really great logo
19:05	tanzoniteblack	nDuff: I will go check that out now
19:05	xeqi	kenneth: hmm, I read something that the bytecode to invoke it is different, wonder if thats the issue
19:05	xeqi	,(count (byte-array 3))
19:05	clojurebot	3
19:05	mdeboard	SegFaultAX\|work2: No, I've never used Scala. It's not a either/or talk. The Scala meetup is basically a "make us smarter" meetup, you can talk about anything relevant.
19:05	xeqi	kenneth: could do something like ^, but its probably calling seq on it underneath
19:05	mdeboard	cemerick: I'll accept that as a response to my tweet at you earlier then
19:06	cemerick	mdeboard: oh, did I miss one?
19:06	cemerick	Ah, right.
19:06	mdeboard	:D
19:06	cemerick	mdeboard: Not sure what you mean by 'inline REPL' though.
19:09	tanzoniteblack	nDuff: you know, I wish I knew about Overtone and emacs-live when I was working with Super Collider last year...that would've made my life a lot easier
19:10	amalloy	xeqi: it's not calling seq, it's using reflection to discover the type of the array
19:22	dnolen	kenneth: (.length foo) doesn't work on arrays. Just use count or alength.
19:42	austinh	Reporting back: it took me about 8 hours to figure out how to implement virtual hosts.
19:42	austinh	That was not fun, but it works, and I honed my interop chops a little.
19:44	seneth	whats the best IDE for clojure, I am thinking about using eclipse's plugin?
19:44	aniero	seneth: vim! :D
19:44	seneth	>_>
19:44	nDuff	emacs!
19:44	nDuff	(no, really, emacs)
19:44	aniero	nDuff: thank you!
19:44	nDuff	~survey
19:44	clojurebot	survey is http://cemerick.com/2012/08/06/results-of-the-2012-state-of-clojure-survey/
19:44	nDuff	seneth: See the survey for numbers on what folks use re: environments
19:44	seneth	thanks
19:45	nDuff	seneth: If you don't already have a preferred emacs setup for LISP, I'd suggest looking at Emacs Live, by the Overtone folks
19:45	nDuff	seneth: ...there's a nice video available showing off the features.
19:47	nDuff	seneth: If what you're doing is experimenting with the language, by the way, you might have fun with Light Table, though it isn't ready for real work yet.
19:47	technomancy	use what you already know; it's hard enough learning a new language without throwing in a bunch of unrelated crap.
19:48	technomancy	unless it's like textmate or something
19:48	gfredericks	the more things you are learning at the same time the harder it is to blame something when you don't know what just happened
19:50	amalloy	there's no hard evidence that there's a better way to learn to swim than being ejected from a submarine on the ocean floor
19:51	mdeboard	Kind of a weird question here but I'm looking for a venn diagram image that I swore was used in this talk http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Functional-Architecture, but I can't find it. It was labeled the "sweet spot for functional programming", and the overlapping circles were concurrency, DSL, and something else that I can't recall. Does anyone happen to know what graphic I'm referring to? I want to use it in thi
19:51	mdeboard	s talk.
19:51	mdeboard	google works, I'm an idiot.
19:52	hiredman	submarines are for poseurs, just grab a big rock and take a long walk off a short pier
19:52	mdeboard	nm, no I'm not.
19:52	Urthwhyte	whoa
19:53	mdeboard	Make like a tree and get outta here
19:54	Urthwhyte	mdeboard: I have three irrsi sessions going at the same time and thought your message was from work's and was very confused as to how an FP q got into my gwt-ffffuuuuu rant
19:54	Urthwhyte	channel
19:54	mdeboard	I see
19:57	mdeboard	I believe the third domain was math ops
19:57	austinh	Here is my code for setting up virtual hosts with Clojure/Ring/Jetty: https://gist.github.com/3628228
19:58	seneth	I am experimenting. For the last two days I was looking for a new language, because i am tring to move away from verboseness of java. And the languages I am interested in now are Scala and Clojure. I am kinda familliaer with recursion and s-expressions type syntax. I would use it for my own projects. Any suggestions?
19:59	gfredericks	~scala
19:59	clojurebot	Unfortunately the standard idiom of consuming an infinite/unbounded resource as a stream can be problematic unless you're really careful -- seen in #scala
19:59	technomancy	seneth: you mean suggestions on whether to choose Clojure or Scala?
19:59	technomancy	this might be the wrong channel for that
19:59	weavejester	austinh: Compojure should be able handle virtual hosts by setting routes with absolute URLs
19:59	Urthwhyte	technomancy: Presumably he's asking the same thing in #scala
19:59	seneth	yes
20:00	Urthwhyte	(and getting nothing in there, considering how dead it is)
20:00	seneth	I am not
20:00	hiredman	weavejester: interesting fact
20:00	weavejester	e.g. (GET "http://api.myproject.com/" [] …)
20:00	amalloy	Urthwhyte: and in here we'll suggest clojure, while in there they'll suggest scala. which i think was technomancy's point
20:00	technomancy	hooray, we win by default then?
20:00	weavejester	And if Clout 1.1.0 is explicitly included, you can also do:
20:00	weavejester	(GET "//api.myproject.com/" [] …)
20:00	technomancy	jkkramer: ^ possibly of interest for clojuresphere
20:01	gfredericks	maybe he will forward the arguments back and forth and conduct an indirect fight
20:01	Urthwhyte	it'll be like the good ol' #ruby v. #python days
20:01	Urthwhyte	or #noun1 v. #noun2
20:02	gfredericks	well this may surprise you but I would recommend clojure.
20:02	seneth	Let me put it differently. Is clojure practical for every day projectS, like Building guis, db acess, etc..?
20:02	austinh	weavejester: Good to know! (But I'm not using compojure).
20:03	weavejester	austinh: You could also use middleware that dispatches off the "Host" header
20:04	weavejester	austinh: Because that's all there is to virtual hosts.
20:05	austinh	weavejester: middleware would've been a good idea. Initially, I was trying to keep the two applications separated, and I was hoping to be able to start/stop them independently.
20:06	weavejester	(defn virtual-hosts [& {:as handlers}] (fn [req] ((handlers (get-in req [:headers "host"])) req)))
20:06	austinh	Now I hate you.
20:06	weavejester	austinh: :)
20:06	austinh	:)
20:07	weavejester	nginx is often a good choice if you want a webapp to be made of multiple processes
20:07	gfredericks	seneth: yes.
20:07	weavejester	Whether you're using Clojure or Ruby or whatever
20:08	weavejester	anyway goodnight :)
20:08	austinh	Good night!
20:09	austinh	I can't believe I didn't think of middleware. Middleware rules my world right now.
20:10	mdeboard	Anyone know what Akamai uses Clojure for?
20:12	mdeboard	Aha. "mobile adaptation product"
20:13	mdeboard	Or more completely, "real-time content transformation from a customer's desktop website and to present the data in a format suitable for a mobile phone, all while requiring minimal changes to the site by a customer. The main strength of our technique is that we directly consume their HTML and Javascript in the live system. The resulting application required a complex, many-layered architecture, including multiple DS
20:13	mdeboard	L's, parsers, and DOM query tools"
20:14	technomancy	definitely couldn't pull that off with a single DSL; no sir =)
20:15	casion	so I'm converting an int to a float in range of -1.0/1.0, is (float (/ int 0x7fffffff)) is the most reasonable way? casting the ratio to float seems slow
20:16	gfredericks	&(float 0x7fffffff)
20:16	lazybot	⇒ 2.14748365E9
20:16	gfredericks	why not divide by that directly?
20:16	hiredman	,(* 1 1.0)
20:16	clojurebot	1.0
20:17	casion	gfredericks: I think I tried that… let me check again
20:17	gfredericks	casion: it would sidestep ratios at least
20:18	casion	it's faster on its own, but not in this function
20:18	casion	which I guess means there's something else going on that I'm missing
20:18	mdeboard	technomancy: can't tell if serious
20:18	casion	let me put it up, sec
20:19	technomancy	mdeboard: I have a hard time taking the term "DSL" seriously.
20:19	gfredericks	technomancy: you wouldn't understand, it's too domain specific
20:19	mdeboard	Yeah I always associate it with a much more crude acronym too
20:19	technomancy	mdeboard: "Metaprogramming in Lisp is like Chinese food in China; they just call it food there."
20:19	mdeboard	oh
20:19	mdeboard	that too
20:19	whitaker	ok, I'm now absolutely convinced to stay away from noir/noir-async, after having successfully ripped it out this (PST) afternoon, reverting to Ring + Compojure + Aleph
20:19	technomancy	clojurebot: Metaprogramming in Lisp is like Chinese food in China; they just call it food there.
20:19	clojurebot	Alles klar
20:20	amalloy	i've heard that what's served as chinese food in america isn't easily recognized in china
20:20	jballanc	what's it take to add a task to lein 2.0?
20:20	mdeboard	whitaker: Why so
20:20	technomancy	jballanc: typically write a plugin, though there are other ways too; what do you need?
20:21	Sgeo	I should make an expr function
20:21	whitaker	mdeboard: see the day's log :)
20:21	jballanc	I'm trying to update ClojureScript One for lein 2.0
20:21	jballanc	but it has a "bootstrap" task defined in the project
20:21	shaungilchrist	you're-gonna-have-a-bad-time
20:21	whitaker	I had reloading issues which made my noir-async app untestable
20:21	technomancy	jballanc: if you just need to run application code, you can use a partial alias to the run task
20:21	jballanc	not strictly necessary to carry it over...but I got curious
20:21	shaungilchrist	get lein1.6 for now
20:21	casion	https://www.refheap.com/paste/4877
20:21	mdeboard	whitaker: I don't have the whole day's log, I use a bouncer that only retains the diff between my logins. tl;dr version?
20:22	casion	to convert a collection of bytes (little-endian) to a 32-bit float in range -1.0/1.0
20:22	jballanc	shaungilchrist: is there an effort to port to lein 2.0 underway?
20:22	technomancy	jballanc: if you're adapting a legacy codebase it's probably simplest to echo "tasks" > .lein-classpath and make tasks/leiningen/bootstrap.clj
20:22	jballanc	I couldn't find anything
20:22	jballanc	technomancy: ah, yeah...that might work :)
20:22	casion	maybe I'm doing something else wrong that I'm not noticing in there
20:22	shaungilchrist	I do not know - I was just in same boat a week ago
20:22	whitaker	mdeboard: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/ - CTL-F/grep for 'whitaker', first instance of subthread on the matter starts from there
20:22	technomancy	I doubt clojurescript one is doing anything that actually justifies a custom task, but that would get you going the quickest
20:23	gfredericks	man #clojure hasn't been this noisy since they first announced they were adding parentheses
20:23	jballanc	it isn't
20:23	jballanc	bootstrap is just "deps + git-deps"
20:23	technomancy	oh man... git deps =(
20:23	mdeboard	whitaker: huh
20:23	technomancy	welp
20:23	jballanc	not really worth it...like I said...was more curious than anything
20:23	technomancy	jballanc: :aliases {"bootstrap" ["do" "deps," "git-deps"]}
20:23	mdeboard	gfredericks:
20:23	mdeboard	\(｡◕‿◕｡)/
20:24	jballanc	yeah, that's much simpler
20:24	technomancy	jballanc: it should probably be ported to lein-cljsbuild, but that would probably be pretty involved.
20:25	jballanc	technomancy: well...I'm looking to build on this, so it might just be worth my effort
20:25	technomancy	mdeboard: noir has weird top-level non-var forms
20:25	whitaker	mdeboard: noir was my punishment as a Ruby/Rails guy trying to replicate the "give me an entire opinionated stack dammit" experience unnecessarily.
20:25	jballanc	(and by build, I mean organizationally, not just code-wise)
20:26	mdeboard	whitaker: ah yeah, you have to unclench your fist
20:26	mdeboard	you know, the fist of your mind.
20:27	mdeboard	(◎_◎)
20:27	whitaker	Maybe noir was a Gom Jabbar test for me.
20:28	mdeboard	I see
20:29	whitaker	I almost got pricked by the needle
20:30	technomancy	clojurebot: recite the litany against cons
20:30	clojurebot	eventual consistency is for losers
20:30	technomancy	=(
20:30	technomancy	clojurebot: litany against cons
20:30	clojurebot	litany against cons is "I must not cons. Cons is the perf-killer. Cons is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my cons and permit it to pass over me and through me, and when it has gone past I will turn my GC to see its path. And where it has gone there will be nothing; only I will remain."
20:30	gfredericks	~conso
20:30	clojurebot	excusez-moi
20:30	jballanc	poor clojurebot...the things you all make him remember
20:31	hoover_damm	seriously
20:31	gfredericks	~botsnack
20:31	clojurebot	Thanks! Can I have chocolate next time
20:31	technomancy	~scoobysnack
20:31	clojurebot	Titim gan ?ir? ort.
20:32	gfredericks	clojurebot: scoobysnack is botsnack
20:32	clojurebot	Roger.
20:32	gfredericks	~scoobysnack
20:32	clojurebot	scoobysnack is botsnack
20:32	gfredericks	~scoobysnack
20:32	clojurebot	Thanks! Can I have chocolate next time
20:32	gfredericks	what a smot bot
20:32	whitaker	~chocolate
20:32	clojurebot	excusez-moi
20:32	technomancy	gfredericks: have a scoobysnack
20:32	whitaker	~42
20:32	clojurebot	42 is forget (+ 2 3)
20:33	gfredericks	technomancy: Thanks! Can I have chocolate next time
20:33	whitaker	~cheezburger
20:33	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
20:33	whitaker	~cheeseburger
20:33	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
20:33	whitaker	I see clojurebot lacks felid lol mode
20:34	whitaker	but has a canid mode
20:37	whitaker	In light of my day's experience's with noir, I am gratified that yesterday I listened to an hour-long talk by Rich Hickey on "complection"
20:38	gfredericks	"Rich Hickey and Makeup"
20:38	frio	whitaker: link :)?
20:39	whitaker	gfredericks: amusing Google result from that phrase: "How do I fake a hickey with makeup? \| ChaCha"
20:40	wmealing_	i knew he was a robot
20:40	whitaker	frio: lemme look… I was listening to it on my iPad as a car passenger yesterday
20:40	rbarraud	Any Wellington clojurists in here?
20:41	rbarraud	I am in town visiting family
20:41	rbarraud	Well, in Upper Hutt...
20:42	whitaker	Wellington where? UK? Canada? Australia? NZ?
20:42	mdeboard	One oughtn't find oneself in Lower Hutt after sundown
20:42	rbarraud	Definitely ;-)
20:42	frio	whitaker: i just found it :)
20:43	frio	and im guessing NZ's wellington, if there's hutts in it
20:43	rbarraud	NZ
20:43	frio	im in auckland rbarraud :)
20:43	rbarraud	Yup
20:43	rbarraud	Hi frio ... That's my usual domicile... Greenhithe to be precise :-)
20:43	frio	haha
20:43	frio	the horrible horrible north shore :p
20:44	whitaker	frio: cool, because I couldn't find it in the history on my iPhone or iPad. URL for others here (and The Historical Record)?
20:44	mdeboard	Is Korma looked upon with similar disdain as Noir
20:44	mdeboard	@ hiredman
20:44	rbarraud	According to some twisted views of the universe, perhaps so ;-)
20:44	frio	whitaker: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy
20:45	whitaker	While we're on the topic of "Are there any NNNN clojurists here," I'll ask too: any San Francisco / SF Bay Area clojurists here?
20:45	whitaker	frio: that's the one, thanks much
20:46	whitaker	Anyone else seen the 2011 "Skills Matter" talk by "Uncle Bob" on "The Last Programming Language"?
20:48	Sgeo	How does = on functions work?
20:48	mdeboard	whitaker: Dude, Twitter is based in the bay area
20:48	Sgeo	,(= + +)
20:48	clojurebot	true
20:49	Sgeo	I take it it's identity-based?
20:49	Sgeo	,(= (fn [x] (+ x 1)) (fn [x] (+ x 1)))
20:49	clojurebot	false
20:49	dnolen`	Sgeo: identity
20:49	mdeboard	,(identity +)
20:49	clojurebot	#<core$_PLUS_ clojure.core$_PLUS_@72ab19c0>
20:50	Sgeo	mdeboard, not what I meant >.>
20:50	mdeboard	(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
20:50	whitaker	mdeboard: I know Twitter is based here. I meant clojurists _here and now_ on this channel
20:50	mdeboard	whitaker: Oh, good god no
20:50	whitaker	?
20:50	whitaker	Please be more cryptic.
20:51	mdeboard	I've said too much
20:51	frio	hahahahaha
20:51	whitaker	mdeboard: was that somehow addressed to the "clojurists in the Bay area" thing, or?
20:52	whitaker	Guys, did I just miss an inside joke by mdeboard, who exited?
20:52	mdeboard	no
20:52	whitaker	What was the "Oh, good god no" then?
20:52	mdeboard	Poor brain-mouth filter.
20:55	whitaker	Anyway, I'll take the resounding silence as meaning I'm the only Bay area clojurist on channel who happens to be paying attention at the moment.
20:56	gfredericks	ain't it quittin time in the bay area at the moment?
20:58	arohner	whitaker: me
20:58	phao	Hi... This is a bit offtopic, but since "value oriented" is sort of a big deal here, maybe someone may be able to answer it... Isn't it problematic, in terms of performance, to be value oriented?
20:58	arohner	gfredericks: no, it's coding time, because all the emails have finally stopped!
20:58	phao	I mean, won't it spend lots of memory, or cause huge network traffic... or ... ?
20:58	gfredericks	phao: also problematic to have a GC
20:58	gfredericks	phao: what specific case are you thinking of?
20:59	phao	the networking thing looks huge...
20:59	gfredericks	sending JSON over the wire?
20:59	whitaker	gfredericks: not at my office in San Francisco, where I'm waiting for dinner to be delivered
20:59	whitaker	arohner: do you attend any of the local Clojure meetups?
21:00	phao	gfredericks, tbh, I really don't quite know...
21:00	gfredericks	phao: I must not understand what you mean by "the networking thing"
21:00	arohner	whitaker: sometimes. I've probably been to 3-4 since January
21:01	arohner	phao: the JVM is pretty good at GC'ing garbage that doesn't last one generation
21:01	whitaker	mdeboard: re: Korma, I'd be surprised if it were held in the same disregard as noir, given "Copyright © 2011 Chris Granger. All rights reserved."
21:01	whitaker	http://sqlkorma.com/
21:02	arohner	so if your problem can handle be written in Java, it can probably handle being value oriented
21:02	mdeboard	whitaker: Chris Granger was inventor of Noir as well
21:02	ibdknox	Someone rang?
21:03	mdeboard	ibdknox: I was asking about how people would rate Korma given the recent bad eperience with noir that was discussed at length earlier
21:03	ibdknox	say what?
21:03	Sgeo	Bad experience with Noir?
21:04	ibdknox	What bad experience?
21:04	whitaker_	ibdknox: see log: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/
21:04	whitaker_	CTRL-F for 'whitaker', first occurrence, read from there
21:06	ibdknox	to be very clear
21:06	ibdknox	I have nothing to do with noir-async
21:06	ibdknox	moreover
21:07	ibdknox	meh, not worth it
21:08	ibdknox	apparently people like speaking ill of my work while I'm away lol
21:10	rbxbx	ibdknox I'm sure people speak positively of your work while you're away as well, just not so much today.
21:10	shaungilchrist	well to add balance to the force - I like noir. The examples actually work and the documentation is clear
21:13	mdeboard	I think ibdknox's ego is safe given that he sleeps on a pile of Kickstarter funds every night and is very well-regarded for his contributions to the Clojure community (and aforementioned Kickstarter-funded Light Table, which is awesome)
21:13	mdeboard	Scrooge McDuck-style
21:13	whitaker	I spent several days trying to get noir.util.test/send-request to play nice with noir-async/defpage-async, and gave up today in frustration
21:14	ibdknox	whitaker: I know nothin about noir-async
21:14	ibdknox	chances are if you just use aleph directly
21:14	ibdknox	it would've been fine
21:14	whitaker	who is ibdknox? I thought Light Table was Chris' project
21:14	TimMc	...
21:14	ibdknox	I'm Chris Granger
21:14	ibdknox	lol
21:14	whitaker	!
21:14	whitaker	heh
21:14	whitaker	hi Chris
21:15	ibdknox	hola
21:15	whitaker	(we met in SF a few weeks ago at Climate Corp.)
21:15	mdeboard	lol
21:15	whitaker	Love Light Table, always talking it up to friends
21:15	ibdknox	haha that was a couple months ago ;)
21:15	whitaker	temps fugit and all that.
21:15	whitaker	arg
21:15	ibdknox	Sorry you had a bad experience with noir :(
21:15	whitaker	damned autocorrect
21:15	whitaker	Not noir
21:16	whitaker	noir-async, sorry to conflate them
21:16	whitaker	wasn't noir's fault
21:16	whitaker	"tempus fugit"
21:16	whitaker	there
21:16	ibdknox	If it were me, I would intentionally separate the async part to another process anyways, unless you can guarantee you're never going to have to scale it
21:16	ibdknox	fwiw, LT actually uses noir on top aleph
21:17	whitaker	Oh, I did go back to straight Aleph
21:17	Sgeo	Aleph?
21:17	ibdknox	Sgeo: https://github.com/ztellman/aleph
21:17	TimMc	$google aleph clojure
21:17	lazybot	[ztellman/aleph · GitHub] https://github.com/ztellman/aleph
21:17	whitaker	I, er, "decomplected" things a bit
21:17	mdeboard	Every time I think I need a macro it turns out a function is fine.
21:18	whitaker	ibdknox: makes since that LT sits on top of Aleph
21:18	rbxbx	mdeboard thankfully you're trying first instead of jumping straight to the macro like so many do ;_;
21:18	whitaker	I like Aleph the more I learn about it
21:18	mdeboard	rbxbx: I'm actually turning a macro into a function atm
21:18	whitaker	"makes sense"
21:18	whitaker	I really need to find the preference in my irc client that keeps doing that...
21:19	mdeboard	Oh, wait, I remember now.
21:19	ibdknox	fwiw here's a little gist I made for it: https://gist.github.com/1257857
21:19	mdeboard	I DO need a macro. I should document this.
21:19	ibdknox	lol
21:20	Sgeo	The thing that used to be in clojure.contrib for monads uses a macro unnecessarily
21:20	whitaker	ibdknox: thanks Chris
21:21	Sgeo	(You'd need a macro in Haskell, but Clojure is not Haskell)
21:21	ibdknox	whitaker: though to be honest, you're probably better off just using lib-noir with compojure or whatnot - depending on what you're doing
21:21	ibdknox	whitaker: lib-noir has most of the middleware for noir in it, and is designed to be used with any ring project
21:22	ibdknox	so that the people who will never accept anything short of raw ring or maybe compojure can get some of the niceness too :)
21:23	mdeboard	Wait, DO I need a macro here? https://gist.github.com/3628843 I didn't write enough documentation.
21:23	whitaker	ibdknox: I have to do websockets, which was my reason for trying out noir-async in the first place; does lib-noir address that need?
21:23	mdeboard	I think this is one of htose instances where I was pounding my head against something that I lost sight of what was the actual goal
21:24	ibdknox	whitaker: nah, you use aleph for that. lib-noir just provides the stuff you'll probably want if you intend to server webpages from that same server. e.g. sessions, cookies, etc
21:25	whitaker	ibdknox: thanks for making the distinction
21:27	whitaker	Thanks guys! G'nite.
21:29	mdeboard	Ah right... https://gist.github.com/3628877 ... the reason I used a macro there was because afaik you can't use a variable in the 1st arg to (proxy)
21:30	mdeboard	Now that I mention it, why the heck doesn't that worK?
21:30	emezeske	mdeboard: Because proxy is a macro itself
21:31	mdeboard	Ahhhhh right.
21:31	rbxbx	,(doc proxy)
21:31	clojurebot	"([class-and-interfaces args & fs]); class-and-interfaces - a vector of class names args - a (possibly empty) vector of arguments to the superclass constructor. f => (name [params] body) or (name ([params] body) ([params+] body) ...) Expands to code which creates a instance of a proxy class that implements the named class/interface(s) by calling the supplied fns. A single class, if provided, mus...
21:31	emezeske	mdeboard: It looks at its arguments at compile time, so they have to be set then
21:31	rbxbx	:(
21:32	emezeske	mdeboard: That's IMHO the best reason to avoid macros if possible -- they sort of leak macro-ness to their users
21:32	mdeboard	emezeske: Indeed, I had gone through all this before but I failed to write it down.
21:33	emezeske	mdeboard: Heh, I know how that goes! :)
21:35	technomancy	mdeboard: korma has a few similar issues but the situation is different because raw clojure.java.jdbc is a lot less pleasant to work with than raw compojure.
21:36	technomancy	nobody has found the right level of abstraction primitives for DB queries yet
21:42	samrat	anyone here using noir-async?
21:42	mdeboard	samrat: There was just a guy here
21:43	mdeboard	so, no
21:44	arohner	technomancy: because there isn't a right level of abstraction over SQL?
21:45	arohner	the problem is SQL, IMO
21:45	hoover_damm	arohner, I would argue the right solution is going to be opinionated
21:46	arohner	hoover_damm: I have an opinionated solution. Don't use SQL :-p
21:46	arohner	or, don't expect an ORM to work 100% on top of SQL
21:46	hoover_damm	arohner, I was sold on that pattern back in 2008
21:46	hoover_damm	arohner, I tried explaining that to my peers (i'm an ops person) and the blank looks I got was amazing
21:47	arohner	http://arohner.blogspot.com/2009/04/db-rant.html
21:47	hoover_damm	arohner, sometimes people know so little that they don't know how to work outside of their box
21:47	hoover_damm	and yet they will hold steadfast to their ignorance
21:49	dysinger	where did clojure.contrib.reflect run off to ? I've been out of the game for a while
21:50	xeqi	$seen kingtim
21:50	lazybot	kingtim was last seen quitting 1 hour and 42 minutes ago.
21:50	xeqi	~contrib
21:50	clojurebot	Monolithic clojure.contrib has been split up in favor of smaller, actually-maintained libs. Transition notes here: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
21:51	xeqi	looks like no one has moved it forward
21:51	dysinger	thanks lazybot!
21:52	dysinger	bummer I need that get-field fun
21:56	Sgeo	I think the whole macros infecting users so that they tend to need to be macros thing is a very good argument for doing things in a Tcl-style way
21:57	emezeske	Sgeo: Well you can of course do that in clojure with eval
21:58	Sgeo	Isn't eval generally discouraged?
21:58	emezeske	Who cares if it's discouraged?
21:58	emezeske	You can still use it
21:59	emezeske	There are good reasons for it to be discouraged, anyway. They're the same reasons that evaling code in Tcl is painful
21:59	amalloy	dysinger: clojure.java.reflect
22:00	mindbender1	an appeal to clojure lib writers. Please document your apis in the manner of elisp
22:00	dysinger	amalloy:
22:00	dysinger	thanks
22:00	Sgeo	Hmm, how is evaling code in Tcl painful? Tcl at least is an environment where eval (well, uplevel usually) is an ordinary practice
22:01	emezeske	Efficiency is a decent reason. Making your code understandable is a better one.
22:03	Sgeo	I wonder if a delay monad would make sense
22:03	Sgeo	It wouldn't make sense in Haskell because everything is lazy by default, but that's not the case in Clojure
22:03	Sgeo	*non-strict
22:05	mindbender1	imagine this https://gist.github.com/3629127, no matter how the author tried to explain the fn, nothing beats knowing what the arguments are and what is returned
22:10	rbarraud	Us antipodeanz iz pays teh attentions ;-) Whitaker
22:13	dysinger	argh. leiningen includes jars that are marked :scope "provided" in the uberjar
22:17	xeqi	dysinger: yeah, they need to be in the :provided profile
22:20	mpan	I'm calling assoc on a hash-map and getting back a lazy sequence. How can I get a hash-map?
22:21	dnolen	mpan: that doesn't sound right.
22:21	mpan	in particular, I'm using reduce to assoc a bunch of stuff into an empty map
22:21	dnolen	,(assoc {} :foo 1)
22:21	clojurebot	{:foo 1}
22:21	mpan	and I'm... idk somehow I get back a lazy seq
22:22	dnolen	mpan: paste your example somewhere.
22:22	mpan	(reduce #(assoc %1 (%2 0) (%2 1)) listens (hash-map))
22:22	mpan	listens is a seq of 2-length vectors
22:22	mpan	which I'm trying to convert into the key-val pairs of a map
22:22	mpan	and uh... I get something strange out
22:23	xeqi	(doc reduce)
22:23	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f val coll]); f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied, returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll contains no items, f must accept no arguments as well, and reduce returns the result of calling f with no arguments. If coll has only 1 item, it is returned and f is not called. If val is supplied, returns the resu
22:23	xeqi	that passes listen as the initial value
22:23	TimMc	clojurebot, y u so verbose
22:23	clojurebot	because the parentheses grow lonely if their closing brackets are all kept separated and segregated.
22:23	dnolen	mpan: the problem is your initial value. generally the type of the intial value will be type of the final value.
22:23	mpan	eek
22:23	mpan	how am I doing it backwards and getting seemingly sane results?
22:23	mpan	or at least, far less insane than doing something backwards usually gets
22:24	mpan	but wow thanks guys
22:24	dnolen	mpan: assoc is polymorphic
22:24	xeqi	,(into {} [[:a 1] [:b 2] [:c 3]]
22:24	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
22:24	xeqi	,(into {} [[:a 1] [:b 2] [:c 3]])
22:24	clojurebot	{:a 1, :b 2, :c 3}
22:25	xeqi	mpan: might consider into ^
22:25	dnolen	,(assoc [1 2 3] 1 :foo)
22:25	clojurebot	[1 :foo 3]
22:25	mpan	(doc into)
22:25	clojurebot	"([to from]); Returns a new coll consisting of to-coll with all of the items of from-coll conjoined."
22:25	dnolen	mpan: ^, vectors support assoc
22:26	mpan	btw, semi-related, why do a lot of the data types support (collection index) but lazy seqs don't?
22:27	TimMc	mpan: seqs are not associative data structures.
22:27	TimMc	vectors and maps are, so they are functions of their keys
22:28	mpan	all right, thanks!
22:29	dnolen	mpan: a lot of operations w/ the notable (an probably suprising) exception of nth & count are organized around computational complexity.
22:29	technomancy	arohner: insufficient data to make a conclusion =)
22:29	technomancy	but that's certainly a possibility
22:30	arohner	given the number of failed ORMs, and none of the active ones are 100%, I claim the evidence is on my side :-)
22:30	mpan	dnolen: do you mean that they don't want people getting the nth of just an arbitrary seq if it can be avoided?
22:30	technomancy	I'm sure you can do better than strings of SQL if for no other reason than you don't get syntax highlighting in that case
22:31	technomancy	and monochrome code has serious usability concerns
22:31	technomancy	but maybe that's a tooling issue
22:31	TimMc	Part of the issue is certainly SQL's variability between DBs.
22:31	dnolen	mpan: yes
22:32	arohner	I agree tooling is a problem. I'm reasonably convinced the problem can't be solved with an ORM on top of SQL though. It can't be abstracted away 100%
22:33	technomancy	yes, I agree that an ORM is not the solution
22:34	TimMc	create table kvstore (`key` text primary key, `value` text); -- done
22:35	imeredith	arohner: in scala people have made typesafe query generators, but that only works if you dont have any bugs in the generators
22:35	TimMc	arohner, technomancy: Has either of you used datalog to any appreciable degree?
22:36	arohner	not yet. I'm really interested in datomic, haven't had time yet
22:36	technomancy	not yet
22:37	TimMc	I'm eager to read up on it and see if it is something I can use instead of SQL. :-)
22:37	arohner	it's supposed to be
22:37	arohner	I've heard of people using it in production already
22:37	mpan	what does it mean to get a NullPointerException when compiling?
22:38	arohner	probably a syntax error
22:38	mpan	if I break the statement down, I get different errors
22:38	TimMc	and the syntax in error could be a macro usage
22:38	dnolen	mpan: also easily possible if you have executable stuff at the top level.
22:39	mpan	so I def something, and a line later, it says the symbol can't be resolved
22:39	mpan	and I dunno what I did wrong
22:39	dnolen	mpan: use a paste service - gist, refheap, lisppaste if you want people to help you w/ your problem.
22:40	mpan	as in, put the relevant source in a paste-bin service?
22:40	dnolen	mpan: yep
22:41	mpan	http://pastie.org/4665896 at the very bottom it tells me it can't resolve lines
22:41	mpan	which I def'd just right before
22:41	mpan	not sure if the rest of the file is any relevant
22:42	TimMc	Doing work at compile time isn't usually a great idea.
22:42	mpan	I only put it in for testing this part
22:42	mpan	and running it at the repl has the same issue
22:43	TimMc	mpan: If that get-lines call fails, then #'lines will be unbound.
22:45	mpan	I'm digging further into it and it does seem like another part had failed
22:45	mpan	Is there some way to get like a stack trace?
22:45	dnolen`	optimized printing landings in CLJS http://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/commit/c8bc05ca8e3c7e30a85148dd67398aa4d0e6b468
22:45	dnolen`	s/landings/lands
22:47	dnolen`	mpan: what dev environment are you using?
22:47	mpan	eclipse + counterclockwise
22:48	mpan	I've traced the error up to an error in my regex which caused me to feed something invalid to parseInt
22:48	dnolen`	mpan: hmm I would think CCW should show you the trace.
22:49	dnolen`	mpan: perhaps someone that uses CCW can tell you how to get a trace. In the meantime *e always hold the last exception in the REPL. You can print it by using clojure.repl/pst (don't forget to require it first)
22:50	mpan	thanks
22:50	rbarraud	Grraarrrg.... Anyone recommend an iPad IRC client that doesn't lose conversation history on disconnect? :-(
22:51	mpan	Is (require '(clojure repl)) the statement I'm looking for?
22:52	zerokarmaleft	rbarraud: iSSH + screen/tmux + irssi?
22:53	dnolen`	mpan: (require '[clojure.repl])
22:53	dnolen`	mpan: or (require '[clojure.repl :as repl]), which make it less tedious
22:53	dnolen`	(repl/pst *e)
22:53	rbarraud	Zerokarmaleft thanks
22:54	rbarraud	Heh
22:54	zerokarmaleft	rbarraud: it's a valid option :D
22:55	mpan	does this require some special external jars?
22:55	rbarraud	Yeah ... Given a suitable Linux host :-)
22:55	rbarraud	Might try It actually
22:55	dnolen`	mpan: not for clojure.repl
22:55	mpan	I'm still getting RuntimeException java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/repl/pst__init.class or clojure/repl/pst.clj on classpath:
22:55	dnolen`	mpan: pst is a function, you want to require a library
22:56	dnolen`	mpan: what are you entering into the REPL?
22:56	mpan	(require '[clojure.repl]) which appears to succeed
22:56	dnolen`	mpan: and how are you trying to use it?
22:56	mpan	then (clojure.repl/pst *e) which fails as above
22:57	dnolen`	mpan: hmm just tried that and it seems to work.
22:58	mpan	I did find what I broke in the other place, though, and this is almost absurd... I accidentally used a built-in with a similar name to something I had but an entirely different meaning
22:59	emezeske	dnolen`: thanks for merging CLJS-340!
22:59	mpan	which gets me back to the earlier problem of, I'm definitely not doing my regexes correctly, but that's something different at least
22:59	dnolen`	emezeske: np!
23:18	mrevil	i'm doing interop with java and it's forcing me to obtain a lock before iterating through a collection. Is there a way to wrap a map so that I can return a lazy collection, and when the collection goes out of scope or is consumed something similar to a finally block is called allowing me to release the lock?
23:25	emezeske	mrevil: AFAIK that is not possible. The same question comes up regarding the use of with-open around a lazy-seq, and the answer is always that you have to manage the resource (file open or in your case lock) yourself.
23:25	mrevil	hmmm
23:26	emezeske	mrevil: There's no way for clojure to know that your program is done using the lazy-seq. The closest you could come would be to release the lock in a Java finalizer, but that's a bad idea
23:27	mrevil	sometimes I wish I had shared_ptr or auto_ptr from c++
23:28	emezeske	Well what you really want are scoped destructors from c++, but Java just doesn't have that.
23:28	emezeske	That's life in a garbage-collected world.
23:30	mrevil	backing away from a rant, but i'm registering my annoyance and shaking my fist at the pedantic and arrogant java world view
23:32	emezeske	Not allocating objects on the stack is pedantic?
23:33	devth	what's a nice way of filtering out a specific specific character from a string? i tried clojure.contrib.string/replace-char, but don't know of an empty character to replace it with.
23:34	emezeske	devth: Caveat: I have no idea how (in)efficient this is: (apply str (remove #(= % "z") "abczzzdef"))
23:34	devth	ah, nice. thx
23:35	mrevil	i think that the garbage collector doesn't really solve problems, and in fact introduces all sorts of new problems. i resent the we know better than you, we're going to take away the pointy scissors, you slow bumbling little child.
23:36	emezeske	mrevil: What? It's not like the Java authors took away your ability to write C or C++
23:36	emezeske	mrevil: You resent them for giving you another option that you may freely choose not to use?
23:37	nsxt	is clojurecheck the "definitive" quickcheck implementation for clojure?
23:37	mrevil	just because I like some feature (clojure) of an environment doesn't mean I have to be happy with all of the baggage that comes with it
23:37	xeqi	nsxt: theres also test.generative
23:40	emezeske	mrevil: Well, it's silly to resent the design of Java. And I doubt any of the Java authors claim to "know better than you". Lots of people consider garbage collection useful. You're certainly entitled to think otherwise, but it's ridiculous to call Java's design "arrogant" because it does not agree with your preferences.
23:44	iDesperadO	,(def m {:hello 1, :world 2}) ,(map :hello m)
23:44	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
23:44	mpan	it doesn't want you to def :/
23:44	mpan	it's happy with let though
23:44	mpan	(or so I hope)
23:44	emezeske	,(let [m {:hello 1 :world 2}] (map :hello m))
23:44	clojurebot	(nil nil)
23:44	mpan	,(let [x 1] x)
23:44	clojurebot	1
23:44	emezeske	iDesperadO: workaround ^
23:45	iDesperadO	(let [m {:hello 1 :world 2} (map :hello m))
23:45	iDesperadO	,(let [m {:hello 1 :world 2} (map :hello m))
23:45	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
23:45	mpan	um, close your ]
23:45	iDesperadO	,(let [m {:hello 1 :world 2}] (map :hello m))
23:45	clojurebot	(nil nil)
23:45	iDesperadO	,(let [m {:hello 1 :world 2}] (map :hello [m]))
23:45	clojurebot	(1)
23:45	iDesperadO	why's that?
23:46	mpan	map expects certain arguments
23:46	mpan	(doc map)
23:46	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f c1 c2] [f c1 c2 c3] [f c1 c2 c3 & ...]); Returns a lazy sequence consisting of the result of applying f to the set of first items of each coll, followed by applying f to the set of second items in each coll, until any one of the colls is exhausted. Any remaining items in other colls are ignored. Function f should accept number-of-colls arguments."
23:46	mpan	specifically, it wants something it can call and something that's a coll
23:47	mpan	I'm afraid to get the details wrong so I'll be quiet here :(
23:47	iDesperadO	:hello is function {:hello 1 :world 2} is collection...I use function :hello to call {:hello 1 :world 2}. I'm afraid it's supposed to be right
23:47	iDesperadO	,(:hello {:hello 1 :world 2})
23:47	clojurebot	1
23:48	iDesperadO	,(let [m {:hello 1 :world 2}] (map :hello m))
23:48	clojurebot	(nil nil)
23:48	mpan	it calls 1st arg to /each elem in/ 2nd arg
23:48	mpan	not to 2nd arg directly
23:49	mpan	so when you wrap it in vector, it calls it to each elem in the vector, namely, m
23:49	mpan	once again, I'm new and afraid I might be giving you wrong details
23:50	iDesperadO	mpan: ah..it helps
23:50	iDesperadO	:)
23:52	jparishy	Hi! Is there a best practice for wrapping a C library for use in Clojure?
23:55	jparishy	I found this library https://github.com/Chouser/clojure-jna but it's pretty old
23:57	casion	I've just used JNA directly
23:58	uvtc	I wonder if clojurebot has any wisdom to spread on this topic?
23:58	uvtc	~c
23:58	clojurebot	ClojureBooks is http://clojure.org/books
23:58	uvtc	Hm.
23:58	casion	using C from java seems a bit counter to the purpose of using java in the first place though
23:58	casion	I'
23:59	casion	I've only used it to check my work against known working libraries that I"m familiar with
23:59	jparishy	Yep, but I'd like to use the Clojure parser along with a C library (llvm api) so you kinda have to go in that direction me thinks
23:59	wmealing_	casion: seen that clojureC work ?