#clojure – 2012-08-17

2012-08-17

01:35	semperos	for any folks still around dealing with the cljs -> nodejs multi-namespace issue, I've put a temporary workaround on the JIRA ticket for it
01:35	semperos	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-355
01:43	tomoj	hmm
01:43	tomoj	i certainly got multiple namespaces working before
01:44	tomoj	months ago maybe
01:53	tomoj	semperos: what cljs version?
01:53	semperos	HEAD of master
01:53	tomoj	huh..
01:53	tomoj	refh seems to work fine here
01:54	semperos	with nodejs as the target?
01:54	tomoj	yeah
01:54	tomoj	I don't have quite HEAD yet
01:54	semperos	hmm
01:54	semperos	I didn't open the issue, just encountered it today, I've only targeted the browser with cljs in the past
01:56	semperos	I also tried all of the 0.0-14xx releases and had the same error occur when introducing multiple namespaces and targeting nodejs
01:58	tomoj	https://gist.github.com/de65338f9d7eaa30c2e0
01:58	tomoj	Raynes: https://gist.github.com/de65338f9d7eaa30c2e0
01:59	semperos	tomoj: able to share the project code?
01:59	semperos	or at least what/how many namespaces that code base has?
02:02	semperos	nm...
02:03	tomoj	hmm
02:05	wmealing__	hmm
02:07	semperos	tomoj: on that refh code base, if I do `lein cljsbuild once` and then run the file, it doesn't work for me as shown in your gist
02:07	semperos	kinda curious
02:07	tomoj	how does it know which cljs version to use?
02:07	Raynes	tomoj: ?
02:07	tomoj	it looks like cljsc is using my HEAD install
02:08	Raynes	tomoj: If that's the case and it is already fixed, somebody really need to push a new cljs release.
02:09	Raynes	needs*
02:09	Raynes	That was the craziest bug I've ever seen.
02:10	tomoj	I see cljsbuild depends on 0.0-1450
02:10	Raynes	Is it using that in your gist?
02:10	tomoj	I assume so
02:10	Raynes	Because I can't get it to work with that.
02:10	semperos	me neither
02:11	tomoj	..platform?
02:11	Raynes	OS X
02:11	semperos	Mac OSX Lion
02:11	Raynes	Same.
02:11	tomoj	called it
02:11	semperos	:)
02:11	tomoj	maybe that's just a coincidence
02:11	tomoj	ubuntu here
02:11	tomoj	what occurred to me was "case-insensitive hfs" but I don't see how that could cause it
02:12	Raynes	I can test on my ubuntu vps, tomoj.
02:12	Raynes	Gimme a sec.
02:12	tomoj	osx java sorts differently? :)
02:12	semperos	I've seen sorting differences in Ruby implementations across OS's...
02:13	tomoj	if it sorts by hash somewhere I could see that
02:13	tomoj	..maybe?
02:13	tomoj	it just happens to come out correct in ubuntu? that seems crazy though
02:15	tomoj	just tried again using cljsc with my clone on r1450, still works
02:15	magopian	i think i found a very clever solution to problem 82 on 4clojure <3
02:16	Raynes	tomoj: I can reproduce on ubuntu
02:16	Raynes	semperos: ^
02:16	nbeloglazov	magopian: and what is it? :)
02:16	semperos	Raynes: the error, or it working?
02:16	Raynes	The error.
02:16	Raynes	Same thing happens.
02:16	semperos	sweet
02:16	semperos	so tomoj has the magic box
02:17	Raynes	Apparently so.
02:17	Raynes	Where all things work.
02:18	semperos	well, time for me to hit the sack; with that simple workaround on that ticket, those not using tomoj's magic box can get nodejs targets compiling again
02:20	magopian	nbeloglazov: did you solve the problem 82 already?
02:20	nbeloglazov	magopian: yes
02:20	magopian	nbeloglazov: my username is "magopian"
02:21	magopian	nbeloglazov: reasoning was: if all words have to be chained, it's not possible if there's more than two words that can only connect to one word (the first and the last one)
02:21	magopian	if there's more than 2 words with only one connection => it can't be a single chain => false
02:22	magopian	i'm pretty sure that's a bit naive, as i'm pretty sure there could be a set of words, each having more than one "connection", but still no one chain could be made
02:23	magopian	however, that doesn't seem to be the case with the tests available
02:24	magopian	nbeloglazov: must rush, afk, will be back in a few minutes
02:26	nbeloglazov	magopian: no need to hurry, 4clojure slow as hell now (at least for me)
02:27	wmealing__	i know its not clojure related.. but can someone tell me why "Koka" plans to do with these "inferred effects", ie what does it do for the langauge
02:39	magopian	nbeloglazov: back;)
02:41	nbeloglazov	magopian: by the way I think I found a way to crash 4clojure for sometime
02:45	magopian	nbeloglazov: oh?
02:45	magopian	nbeloglazov: you mean some way to trump the "execution timeout" trigger ?
02:46	nbeloglazov	magopian: no, just make it very slow and sometimes it shows "Broken gateway". It has problems with user search
02:46	nbeloglazov	magopian: yes, your solution is a bit of a hack :)
02:49	magopian	nbeloglazov: i think so, yes
02:51	magopian	nbeloglazov: but eh, it's the simplest solution given the tests, right? O:)
02:51	magopian	i had a first solution, based on brute force (compute all possible combinations of the words, and then checking if it's a chain)
02:52	magopian	which was correct, but timed out on the very first test
02:52	nbeloglazov	magopian: mine passed (it also check all permutations)
02:52	magopian	(took me two days to come up with it, was a bit frustrated when it failed :(
02:52	magopian	nbeloglazov: well, does it still run now? (your solution) ?
02:53	magopian	because mine had nothing fancy, i think, so i was a bit surprised it would timeout
02:53	magopian	(i still have it around if you're interested, but it's not very elegant)
02:55	nbeloglazov	magopian: yes, it passes. My nick is nikelandjelo on 4clojure
02:56	nbeloglazov	magopian: you also can check redraiment's solution it's really hack that has nothing common with the task
02:56	magopian	i'll check those two straight away
02:57	magopian	ah, i'm following you already ;) (i follow each and every one who solved every problem, so i can compare my solutions to them)
02:57	tomoj	Raynes: hmm
02:57	tomoj	I guess I'm not using the cljs version I think I am?
02:58	magopian	nbeloglazov: (drop-nth [n s] (concat (take n s) (drop (inc n) s))) <==== i did that differently with split-at
03:03	magopian	nbeloglazov: very clever solution ;) my brute force one was very very close, same logic (but less idiomatic and clear, i'm still big big noob ;)
03:03	nbeloglazov	magopian: hm, yes, drop-nth removes nth element and returns 1 seq, and split-at returns 2 seqs
03:03	magopian	nbeloglazov: i guess my permutations algorithm was too naive to run fast enough
03:03	nbeloglazov	magopian: can you show your algorithm?
03:03	magopian	sure, let me paste it
03:04	tomoj	wonder why symbols can't start with numbers
03:04	magopian	mmm let me trim it down
03:06	magopian	nbeloglazov: https://friendpaste.com/1Yti8jqQuUpdY8t8mKOg9
03:06	magopian	it takes a word, and inserts it in every possible position in a sequence
03:07	nbeloglazov	tomoj: because compiler won't be able to understand when you type (println 4) if you mean 4 as number or as symbol
03:07	tomoj	hmm
03:08	tomoj	"if it's a valid literal number, it's a number, otherwise it's a symbol" is just too weird?
03:10	tomoj	heh "Unable to resolve symbol: 4 in this context"
03:10	nbeloglazov	I think so. It can cause confusion. May be there are some bigger problems with this
03:10	magopian	haha, just checked redraiment's solution :)
03:12	magopian	nbeloglazov: i love your "close?" function, it's just simple, clear, concise, readable, perfect !
03:13	nbeloglazov	magopian: thanks :)
03:15	magopian	to learn the syntax of a new language, it can be rather quick... but to learn to write it idiomatically... it can take years
03:15	magopian	wow, this sentence is hardly english, sorry ^^
03:25	rod_	hi - i'm using compojure for a JSON RESTish api - and would like to handle exceptions returning them as JSON. i was about to write a macro to wrap all my routes, but can anyone reccomend the beter way of doing this? could i use a ring response handler? thanks
03:29	nz-	rod_: the exact same thing is on my to-do list, I would probably make a regular function as a ring response handler that does the job
03:29	rod_	ok thanks for the advice nz- i'll try it.
03:31	nbeloglazov	rod_: look at this article: http://mmcgrana.github.com/2010/08/clojure-rest-api.html Author creates error handler
03:31	nz-	see wrap-exception-logging and wrap-failsafe in http://mmcgrana.github.com/2010/07/develop-deploy-clojure-web-applications.html
03:33	rod_	cheers!
03:45	augustl	need to turn {:headers {:foo 1 :bar 2}} into {:headers {:bar 2}}, this is a good use case for clojure.zip right?
03:47	nz-	select-keys?
03:48	nz-	,(select-keys {:foo 1 :bar 2} [:bar])
03:48	clojurebot	{:bar 2}
04:00	hyPiRion	so like
04:01	hyPiRion	,(update-in {:headers {:foo 1 :bar 2}} [:headers] dissoc :bar)
04:01	clojurebot	{:headers {:foo 1}}
04:02	hyPiRion	,(update-in {:headers {:foo 1 :bar 2}} [:headers] select-keys [:foo])
04:02	clojurebot	{:headers {:foo 1}}
04:03	nz-	,(update-in {:headers {:foo 1 :bar 2}} [:headers] select-keys [:bar])
04:03	clojurebot	{:headers {:bar 2}}
04:03	nz-	,(update-in {:headers {:foo 1 :bar 2}} [:headers] select-keys [:foobar])
04:03	clojurebot	{:headers {}}
04:05	nz-	what is idiomatic way to remove "empty" keys from a map: e.g {:a 1 :b {} :c [] :d {:d1 1 :d2 {} :d2 {} :d3 nil}} -> {:a 1 :d {:d1 1}}
04:06	augustl	hyPiRion: ah, cool
04:06	rod_	nz- would (into {} (remove empty? the-data)) work?
04:07	rod_	oh, you might have to (comp empty? second)
04:07	nz-	,(into {} (remove empty? {:a 1 :b {} :c [] :d {:d1 1 :d2 {} :d2 {} :d3 nil}}))
04:07	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Duplicate key: :d2>
04:07	nz-	,(into {} (remove empty? {:a 1 :b {} :c [] :d {:d1 1 :d2 {} :d4 {} :d3 nil}}))
04:07	clojurebot	{:a 1, :b {}, :c [], :d {:d1 1, :d2 {}, :d4 {}, :d3 nil}}
04:08	rod_	,(into {} (remove (comp empty? second) {:a 1 :b {} :c [] :d {:d1 1 :d2 {} :d4 {} :d3 nil}}))
04:08	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
04:08	rod_	ouch
04:08	rod_	maybe put ur own "empty" comparison in then
04:08	rod_	that'll deal with numbers and stuff
04:09	nz-	does it work recursively? several levels deep?
04:09	azkesz	is it possible to redefine a function and inside it call the old function?
04:10	azkesz	function having the same name
04:13	tomoj	(defn wrap-println [f] (fn [& args] (println (apply f args))))
04:13	tomoj	(def foo (-> (fn [x] (+ x 2)) wrap-println))
04:13	tomoj	azkesz: ^
04:13	tomoj	one way to do what
04:13	tomoj	..I think you are asking
04:14	hyPiRion	I think the question is more like (def prn [x] (do (prn x) x)), where the prn inside is the old fn.
04:14	azkesz	I didn't yet read about the "->"
04:15	azkesz	yes hyPiRion
04:15	tomoj	hyPiRion: in that case, my answer is "don't do that"
04:15	ro_st	Raynes: any idea how i'd serve a static file with Noir? not necessarily a file in /resources/public
04:15	azkesz	i only want to know how it can be done, i don't really want to do it :)
04:15	hyPiRion	You could do it by refering to the explicit namespace
04:15	tomoj	azkesz: er, that could have been written more easily
04:15	hyPiRion	(defn prn [x] (do (clojure.core/prn x) x)))
04:15	tomoj	(def foo (wrap-println (fn [x] (+ x 2))))
04:15	ro_st	i just need to know how to tell ring to serve up a file i tell it to
04:15	weavejester	ro_st: A file or a resource?
04:16	ro_st	a file
04:16	tomoj	azkesz: oh, define it twice in the same namespace, or in separate namespaces, like hyPiRion suggests?
04:16	weavejester	ro_st: You could just do (response (io/file "blah"))
04:16	ro_st	so i have a route /media/:uuid/:file and i want to use the uuid and file to find a file on disk and serve it up
04:16	ro_st	boom :-) thank you weavejester!
04:16	weavejester	ro_st: Where response is from ring.util.response and io/file is from clojure.java.io
04:17	weavejester	ro_st: Bastically just add a java.io.File object to the :body of the response.
04:17	ro_st	that's awesome, thanks
04:18	azkesz	that worked , as hyPiRion suggested, though I'm not really sure I got what's happening xD
04:18	azkesz	oh right, it's redefined in my own user namespace?
04:18	ro_st	hey, so now that i have your attention. i want to serve a ring app in production, but i dont want to do the jar thing, because i want to be able to modify files in resources/public/ without having to recompile. apache currently has port 80 on the machine in question. what can i use?
04:18	azkesz	i see what you meant tomoj
04:20	weavejester	ro_st: You can run your web app with an adapter, then use Apache or Nginx to proxy HTTP requests to it.
04:20	ro_st	ahh, of course! forgot about proxy
04:20	weavejester	ro_st: If you're using "lein-ring" then you can run it with LEIN_NO_DEV=1 lein ring server
04:20	ro_st	any recommendations on the underlying web server to use? is jetty ok?
04:21	ro_st	-java noob-
04:21	weavejester	ro_st: An embedded Jetty started by "lein ring server" should be okay.
04:21	ro_st	awesomesauce
04:21	weavejester	ro_st: Jetty is the server used for the official adapter
04:23	ro_st	LEIN_NO_DEV stops code reloading, i presume
04:23	tomoj	azkesz: if you did that you should do (ns foo (:refer-clojure :rename {prn core-prn})) (def prn [x] (do (core-prn x) x)))
04:23	ro_st	and stacktraces to the browser
04:23	azkesz	tomoj, very interesting
04:23	weavejester	ro_st: Yes, and in pre-2 Leiningen in prevents :dev-dependencies as well
04:24	weavejester	ro_st: Lein-Ring uses it as a hint that development middleware is not needed
04:25	weavejester	ro_st: But with profiles in Lein 2, you can fine tune it, e.g. by having a profile for production with :ring {:auto-reload? false :stacktrace? false}
04:26	ro_st	thanks WJ! appreciate the help
04:27	ro_st	i only recently discovered the joy of code-reload in my compojure app. what a difference!
04:28	weavejester	ro_st: I actually need to take a look at wrap-reload. I've discovered rare instances where it doesn't seem to work as expected. I think it might be reloading the namespace, but then not reloading the dependent namespaces right or something. Most of the time it works find though...
04:29	weavejester	ro_st: You could also try wrap-refresh, but you'll need lein-ring 0.7.2 for it to work right. :ring {:auto-refresh? true}
04:29	ro_st	how does that differ?
04:29	weavejester	ro_st: wrap-refresh needs wrap-reload to be useful
04:30	weavejester	ro_st: wrap-refresh refreshes the browser via javascript when it detects a file change
04:30	ro_st	btw, CmdrDats is probably quite keen to know what you think of his pull-request on ns-tracker #justsaying
04:30	ro_st	oooh. yes please
04:30	ro_st	https://github.com/weavejester/ring-refresh ?
04:31	weavejester	ro_st: Yes, but if you're using Lein-Ring 0.7.2, it's included. You just need to add :ring {:auto-refresh? true} to your project.clj
04:31	ro_st	gotdcha
04:32	ro_st	0.7.2 is new?
04:32	weavejester	ro_st: I replied to CmdrDats - I like his changes, but I think they belong in a different library. ns-tracker is just for tracking changes to namespaces, not for reloading them.
04:32	azkesz	CmdrDats had that nice minecraft plugin in clojure thing, I took a look, but I've much to learn about clojure first :)
04:32	weavejester	ro_st: Yeah. 0.7.1 also has wrap-refresh, but it's a version with several big bugs!
04:32	weavejester	ro_st: 0.7.2 updates the version of wrap-refresh to fix them.
04:33	azkesz	is cljbin slow?
04:33	ro_st	azkesz: i can only imagine that'd be a fantastic way to learn clojure
04:34	azkesz	nvm, it loaded (the page) :)
04:35	azkesz	any chance something like this would work? http://cljbin.com/paste/502e019de4b050e15148aab8 (just for proof of concept, not really gonna use it)
04:37	ro_st	weavejester: have you tested refresh with gzip middleware?
04:38	ro_st	wow it works beautifully .. when gzip middleware is disabled :-)
04:38	weavejester	ro_st: Nooo… I can see why that wouldn't work. It would need to be under the gzip middleware
04:38	weavejester	ro_st: But lein-ring only sees the outer part
04:39	ro_st	if you wrap your ring handler with dev-only middleware (like reload, stacktrace), how do you run that code in production with NO_DEV=1?
04:40	weavejester	ro_st: Well, lein-ring will add wrap-reload and wrap-stacktrace automatically for you if LEIN_NO_DEV is not set
04:40	ro_st	oh!
04:40	ro_st	where is that documented?
04:40	weavejester	ro_st: If you want something in-app, you could use environment variables… which is where I'd recommend a small library called environ
04:41	weavejester	ro_st: https://github.com/weavejester/lein-ring#starting-a-web-server
04:41	ro_st	that is awesome!
04:42	weavejester	ro_st: Are you using the Lein 2 preview, by any chance?
04:42	ro_st	things just got so much simpler
04:42	ro_st	i am. i use 1 and 2 side by side
04:42	ro_st	mostly 1, though
04:42	weavejester	ro_st: Environ needs Lein 2, but I've found it useful for managing configurations: https://github.com/weavejester/environ
04:43	ro_st	nice
04:43	ro_st	can you mutate those values at runtime?
04:43	weavejester	ro_st: In development mode, you can specify configuration in your project.clj file, or in your ~/.lein/profiles. In production, you can run with environment variables, or with Java system properties
04:44	weavejester	ro_st: No, it's an immutable map, but you could use that immutable map to populate an atom
04:44	ro_st	we currently use dynamic vars to store our System/getenv values, so that we can use binding to mutate them in midje contexts for testing
04:44	ro_st	well, not mutate, rebind
04:44	weavejester	ro_st: I believe Clojure 1.3 or 1.4 has a function called with-redefs
04:45	weavejester	ro_st: You can use it to redefine a var within a scope
04:45	jsyrjala	any idea when lein 2 is released? it is only preview 2.0 now
04:45	weavejester	ro_st: e.g. (with-redefs [env (merge env {:foo "bar"})] (your-tests))
04:46	weavejester	jsyrjala: I imagine we'll be seeing a beta soon, as a lot of people are already using it a lot. But you'd have to ask technomancy :)
04:47	ro_st	here's what we do: https://www.refheap.com/paste/4440
04:47	ro_st	works beautifully
04:47	ro_st	i guess this is just as good as your with-redefs option, except yours supports the use of environ :-)
04:50	weavejester	ro_st: You approach will also work with older versions. Though I like with-redefs because it means I don't have to change my code to accomodate my tests.
04:50	ro_st	true
04:50	ro_st	we're on 1.4 anyway
04:51	ro_st	i like that environ supports project.clj too. great for long lived config variables and api keys that are server independent
04:52	azkesz	how can I undef a def-ed var?
04:54	weavejester	azkesz: ns-unmap
04:55	weavejester	azkesz: (ns-unmap ns 'foo) should do it, I think
04:55	ro_st	downloads weavejester's talk
04:56	ro_st	weavejester: what do you use for logging?
04:57	weavejester	ro_st: I haven't settled on something I like, yet...
04:57	azkesz	weavejester, thank you, that works awesomely
04:57	ro_st	have you seen timbre?
04:58	ro_st	looks pretty good. i like that you can write your own appenders. so you could push data off to a store, or into an atom (which then gets retrieved and sent as a log of the work done in that web request, for eg) or whatever
04:58	ro_st	https://github.com/ptaoussanis/timbre
04:59	ro_st	all pure clojure, too. no log4j braindeath
04:59	jsyrjala	how about tools.logging?
04:59	ro_st	too much log4j braindeath :-)
04:59	vijaykiran	"tools.logging helps, but it doesn't save you from the mess of logger dependencies and configuration hell."
05:00	weavejester	ro_st: No, I hadn't seen timbre… hm...
05:01	ro_st	excellent. i got to pay you back, a little :-)
05:01	weavejester	ro_st: Ack, no, I don't like timbre so much now I look at it
05:01	ro_st	… or not. haha
05:01	ro_st	why not?
05:02	weavejester	ro_st: Oops, sorry :)
05:02	weavejester	ro_st: I've gotten used to treating log messages as maps
05:03	ro_st	but it is a map?
05:03	ro_st	https://github.com/ptaoussanis/timbre#custom-appenders, 3rd last line of code sample
05:03	ro_st	args map
05:03	weavejester	ro_st: The API isn't set up that way, though
05:03	sandbox	hi, does anyone here know things about clojure on heroku? specifically i've recently started getting an error deploying that states 'LEIN_NO_DEV=y: command not found'
05:03	ro_st	i believe you can pass anything to the logging fns
05:04	weavejester	ro_st: I mean, I can't write (log {:foo "bar"}). It assumes things like levels and messages and stuff
05:04	azkesz	in this example, how would I append the string " printed" after thoser args ?(I tried cons/conj they prepend): http://cljbin.com/paste/502e0881e4b050e15148aaba
05:05	sandbox	i'm not entirely sure how the heroku buildpack works but if someone knows and could help me out that would be greatly appreciated, otherwise i can wait for a response from heroku
05:06	weavejester	ro_st: The appenders of timbre look okay, but everything looks very traditional logging.
05:06	weavejester	ro_st: And atoms for configs I don't like...
05:06	ro_st	what do you use?
05:07	ro_st	some custom lashup? or tools.logging?
05:07	weavejester	ro_st: I've been developing some functions for myself, but nothing in a releasable state yet.
05:07	ro_st	i'm kinda surprised this particular thing isn't like totally solved for clojure already
05:07	clgv	cemerick: ping
05:07	ro_st	seems like it's the perfect problem for the solution that is clojure :-)
05:08	CmdrDats	i'd love general (log) function in clojure.core that does nothing until you plug in tools.logging or something
05:08	weavejester	ro_st: In my view, most logging libraries get it wrong, so even with Clojure, it'll take a while before it can be done right
05:08	weavejester	I'm a little opinionated about logging :)
05:09	ro_st	heck, you could use lamina too, i guess
05:09	jsyrjala	i hope that it doesn't happen like in java: everybody creates their own logging thing, then it is noticed that they do not interoperate, then come logging facades
05:09	ro_st	instead of logging down to disk, you log up to the cloud
05:10	ro_st	this talk was very interesting to me https://vimeo.com/45132054
05:11	weavejester	Yeah, Zach's talk helped form some of the opinions I have on logging
05:11	weavejester	But I haven't completely finished thinking about it
05:12	weavejester	Just enough to come to the opinion that most logging has historical routes in linear text logs
05:12	weavejester	And what we really want is a database of maps
05:12	weavejester	You'd need a timestamp, and who put the log in, but not necessarily levels or messages.
05:12	ro_st	yeah. i think a key mindset shift is moving away from an archive of activity to a firehose of 'now'
05:12	azkesz	datomic?
05:13	weavejester	datomic could do, but the pretty much anything would work...
05:13	hiredman	datomic scales reads, not writes
05:13	weavejester	ro_st: Exactly
05:13	azkesz	all writes are serialized? but not the reads?
05:14	weavejester	writes are atomic in datomic
05:14	weavejester	But reads can be distributed
05:14	ro_st	what i like about lamina (if i understand it correctly) is that you just point it at your code and it instruments everything for you, no explicit logging calls.
05:14	azkesz	i like it, i wanna learn :)
05:15	ro_st	so you could just instrument and push all that data down some channel to a sink like a database or whatever, but at any time you can plug some viewer onto the channel and watch in real time
05:15	weavejester	ro_st: Yes, I like that approach… I'd need to think a little more about whether that's suitable in all circumstances, though.
05:16	ro_st	i speak from a standpoint of a complete lack of practical experience, of course. so i don't know how ideal that is in practice
05:16	weavejester	Anyway, I gotta go
05:20	clgv	does cemerick's add-classpath in pomegranate not work for java projects? I have the following failing scenario: (add-classpath "my-dep.jar") (import 'my.dep.SomeClass) which gives a ClassNotFoundException for my.dep.SomeClass. I thought that should work
05:32	tomoj	has defn metadata gone before the params with no ^ for a long time?
05:36	clojure-newcomer	hi guys, I'm able to check metadata on a function as it stands in the REPL…. but I can't check the metadata on the same function when it is passed as a param to another function… does that make sense ?
05:36	clojure-newcomer	just trying to get my head round a little introspection
05:44	ro_st	that's because the meta is on the var, not the function the var points to
05:45	clojure-newcomer	ro_st: can I resolve the function to get to somewhere I can query the metadata ?
05:45	ro_st	i believe so, although i don't know how
05:45	clojure-newcomer	ro_st: or is that metadata lost to me the minute the fund goes into another func as a param ?
05:46	ro_st	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5592306/how-do-i-dynamically-find-metadata-for-a-clojure-function
05:46	clojure-newcomer	ro_st: *func
05:46	clojure-newcomer	ro_st: that link looks helpful.. ail lead through, thanks
05:49	clojure-newcomer	ro_st: nice, all good, thanks for that
05:49	ro_st	cool
06:18	clgv	tomoj: since 1.2 at least
06:19	clgv	clojure-newcomer: you can create the variable name from the class name of a defn instance
06:20	clgv	clojure-newcomer: the stack overflow answer is cheating^^
06:20	clgv	at least the accepted
06:21	clgv	,(class map)
06:21	clojurebot	clojure.core$map
06:21	clojure-newcomer	clgv: do you mean there are performance implications or complexity etc ?
06:22	clgv	clojure-newcomer: no. it just wont work, if you really get a function as object passed to a function where you want to query the metadata
06:22	clgv	,(meta map)
06:22	clojurebot	nil
06:23	frank	Hi, could anyone help, I am having a wierd problem.
06:23	hyPiRion	frank: Ask the question instead of asking for help ;)
06:23	frank	I am getting the following error: Exception in thread "main" clojure.lang.LispReader$ReaderException: java.lang.RuntimeException: No reader function for tag ordered/map
06:24	frank	when running "lein ring server"
06:24	weavejester	frank: What does your project.clj file look like?
06:24	frank	after running "lein new compojure hello-world; cd hello-world"
06:25	frank	following the instruction in getting started in the compujure github page.
06:25	weavejester	frank: You haven't changed anything else?
06:25	frank	Nope, nothing
06:25	frank	I just installed the newesrtversion of JDK 1.7 on the Mac
06:25	frank	And ran lein upgrade
06:26	weavejester	Which version of Leiningen are you using?
06:26	frank	lein version │
06:26	frank	Leiningen 2.0.0-preview8 on Java 1.7.0_06 Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM
06:28	weavejester	I'm on preview7 - let me upgrade to 8 and see if there's a problem.
06:28	frank	BTW, thx for the amazingly quick reply :-)
06:29	frank	Ah, that could be it, am wondering though what it means, I find it a mysterious error message
06:30	weavejester	frank: I get the same error now in preview8
06:31	frank	Okay, mystery solved, now for the solution. What is going wrong you think?
06:31	azkesz	how to append an item to a list ?
06:32	bosie	do i always have to write (defn f [] …) if my function has no params?
06:32	clojure-newcomer	weavejester: a bit off topic sorry, but your username is cool… whats the story behind it ?
06:33	weavejester	clojure-newcomer: "them am weavejesters" was the best anagram that could be made out of my name
06:33	jsyrjala	bosie: yes
06:33	weavejester	azkesz: To the end of a list?
06:33	bosie	jsyrjala: ok
06:34	weavejester	frank: No idea… I'll need to investigate. Possibly a problem with eval-in-project.
06:34	clojure-newcomer	weavejester: definitely a good way to come up with a name
06:34	weavejester	clojure-newcomer: It worked for voldemort ;)
06:35	azkesz	yes
06:35	jsyrjala	bosie: or (def f (fn [] ...)), but that doesn't help much
06:35	azkesz	I tried cons/conj but they prepend instead
06:35	azkesz	and I fail to find how to append, even though I'm betting it's expensive
06:37	azkesz	weavejester, i need it for something like this(just for tests): http://cljbin.com/paste/502e1e5de4b050e15148aabb
06:37	frank	weavejester: ok, I will either downgrade to preview7 or spend some time looking at the changes to see if I can figure out what is going wrong. Not sure if my Clojure is up to snuff for that though
06:37	frank	thx for the help
06:37	weavejester	azkesz: Why not use a vector?
06:38	weavejester	frank: I'll look into this. It might be a bug in preview8, or it might be some incompatibility introduced. Maybe the syntax of a function is now different.
06:39	azkesz	weavejester, like convert args to vector ?
06:40	azkesz	that works
06:40	weavejester	azkesz: what exactly are you trying to do…?
06:40	azkesz	something like this(works in repl, but it still prints the quotes around the string): http://cljbin.com/paste/502e1f35e4b050e15148aabc
06:41	clgv	azkesz: there is a better method to alter the output of print for a custom datastruture you use. it's defining an implementation of the multimetoh print-method for that type
06:41	azkesz	I'm trying to redefine prn(in my own ns for now) and still call the old prn, but with an extra parameter at the end
06:41	azkesz	but I'm doing this just for tests, while learning clojure
06:42	clgv	azkesz: for learning clojure thats probably a weird idea ;)
06:43	azkesz	yeah I know but, it's kinda fun to do it this way, rather than just read a book(although I'm doing that too)
06:43	hyPiRion	I don't know, fogus usually implement parts of the language he learns.
06:43	hyPiRion	And he seems like a smart guy.
06:43	clgv	hyPiRion: I meant it not in that generality ;)
06:43	clojurebot	Titim gan ?ir? ort.
06:44	hyPiRion	heh
06:44	antares_	Elastisch 1.0 RC1 is out: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/e7267051fd370e73 (or http://clojureelasticsearch.info)
06:45	azkesz	ok it basically works just like prn, but still I have to wonder, is it possible to append to a list directly?
06:45	azkesz	returning the new list, ofc
06:46	hyPiRion	azkesz: Do you mean like ##(concat (range 4) [:foo]) ?
06:46	lazybot	⇒ (0 1 2 3 :foo)
06:46	clgv	antares_: what is "elastic search" in comparison to "search"?
06:46	antares_	clgv: ElasticSearch is a distributed search engine, much like Solr but for modern age
06:48	azkesz	hyPiRion, yep that's the one
06:49	azkesz	works as expected http://cljbin.com/paste/502e213fe4b050e15148aabd
06:50	clgv	antares_: that should be on the first page ^^
06:50	antares_	clgv: ElasticSearch is a pretty popular project and it is pretty easy to find the right site in google, I think most people will figure out what it is
06:50	bosie	huh, replace-first prints the output?
06:50	azkesz	I gotta say, clojure is the answer to my prayers :D all of those little things that I considered lacking in java, are "fixed" in clojure
06:51	clgv	antares_: ok. I just wanted to know what it is you are announcing to decide whether I am interested to read more ;)
06:52	clgv	antares_: I just asked since the start page of http://clojureelasticsearch.info/ didnt help me
06:52	antares_	clgv: if not, you can always go to clojurewerkz.org and find something more relevant to your needs :)
06:52	antares_	clgv: I understand, I will add a link to elasticsearch.org
06:57	bosie	now i get this error: ClassCastException java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number clojure.lang.Numbers.equiv (Numbers.java:206)
06:57	bosie	i know what causes it but how would i get from this exception to the actual line?
07:02	antares_	bosie: it should be there in the full trace
07:02	bosie	antares_: hm. repl doesn't output a full trace by default?
07:03	azkesz	what's the command for showing the last stacktrace ? I see ccw has the button for it
07:04	azkesz	I mean, if there's a function for it or maybe a dynamic variable like how clojure-version is
07:05	azkesz	or like ##source-path
07:05	antares_	bosie: correct
07:05	azkesz	,source-path
07:05	clojurebot	"NO_SOURCE_FILE"
07:05	bosie	antares_: lemme check
07:06	hyPiRion	azkesz: ##(pst) ?
07:06	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: pst in this context
07:06	hyPiRion	,(doc pst)
07:06	clojurebot	"([] [e-or-depth] [e depth]); Prints a stack trace of the exception, to the depth requested. If none supplied, uses the root cause of the most recent repl exception (*e), and a depth of 12."
07:06	azkesz	##(clojure-version)
07:06	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: PersistentArrayMap
07:06	azkesz	thanks hyPiRion =)
07:06	hyPiRion	Anytime.
07:07	azkesz	that worked the pst
07:09	bosie	antares_: so the standard procedure is to use "java -cp …. clojure.main -i bla/bla/bla.clj" ?
07:09	azkesz	symbols like e are thread local dynamic and like err* in out are global dynamic ? is that the convention(or where can i read about this exactly)
07:09	antares_	bosie: the standard procedure is to use leiningen and lein run
07:10	antares_	bosie: or use something like SLIME that will always output full traces
07:10	bosie	k
07:10	antares_	bosie: leiningen.org has all the info about getting lein ;)
07:10	antares_	(and don't worry about 2 not being final yet, many many active projects have been using it for a while)
07:11	azkesz	I see that binding can make any var to be threadlocal inside the binding block
07:11	bosie	i have lein already
07:12	antares_	azkesz: http://tech.puredanger.com/2010/02/17/clojure-stack-trace-repl/
07:12	bosie	thanks antares_
07:13	magopian	,(take 26 ((fn [start] (filter #(= (seq (str %)) (reverse (str %))) (iterate inc start))) 0))
07:13	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
07:13	magopian	so strange, it looks instant, however it timeouts on 4clojure Oo
07:18	azkesz	,(print-cause-trace *e 3)
07:18	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: print-cause-trace in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
07:19	azkesz	,(pst)
07:19	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var$Unbound cannot be cast to java.lang.Throwable>
07:19	weavejester	frank: Lein-Ring 0.7.3 now works for preview8
07:19	nbeloglazov	&(time (doall (take 26 ((fn [start] (filter #(= (seq (str %)) (reverse (str %))) (iterate inc start))) 0))))
07:19	lazybot	⇒ "Elapsed time: 189.69069 msecs" (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 11 22 33 44 55 66 77 88 99 101 111 121 131 141 151 161)
07:20	nbeloglazov	,(take 26 ((fn [start] (filter #(= (seq (str %)) (reverse (str %))) (iterate inc start))) 0))
07:20	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
07:20	nbeloglazov	,(time (doall (take 26 ((fn [start] (filter #(= (seq (str %)) (reverse (str %))) (iterate inc start))) 0))))
07:20	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 10.978599 msecs"
07:20	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
07:20	nbeloglazov	&(time (doall (take 1000 ((fn [start] (filter #(= (seq (str %)) (reverse (str %))) (iterate inc start))) 0))))
07:21	azkesz	"Elapsed time: 306.868192 msecs"
07:21	nbeloglazov	:)
07:21	hyPiRion	magopian: Clojail is a bureaucratic jail, where everything takes time.
07:21	nbeloglazov	,(time (doall (take 26 ((fn [start] (filter #(= (seq (str %)) (reverse (str %))) (iterate inc start))) 0))))
07:21	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 5.292717 msecs"
07:21	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
07:22	nbeloglazov	magopian: are you sure it timeouts on simple tests? Not on hard?
07:22	azkesz	,(time (reduce + (doall (take 1000 ((fn [start] (filter #(= (seq (str %)) (reverse (str %))) (iterate inc start))) 0)))))
07:22	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 487.041191 msecs"
07:22	clojurebot	40634649
07:23	bosie	is this wrong for :dependencies in project.clj "[org.clojure/clojure "1.4.0"]"}
07:23	bosie	?
07:23	bosie	no works
07:23	bosie	nvm
07:23	hyPiRion	seems good
07:23	azkesz	yeah I have the same thing
07:25	azkesz	how would one return the printed string instead of (just) printing it ##(time 1)
07:25	lazybot	⇒ "Elapsed time: 239.320027 msecs" 1
07:25	magopian	nbeloglazov: no clue, maybe it does timeout on hard ones, i just thought it would pass the first one (the easy one ;) green before timeouting on the others, seems i was wrong
07:25	Sweden_jack	azkesz: You want to print to string?
07:26	azkesz	Sweden_jack: time already prints it, but what if I wanted to return it, as a function return value?
07:26	hyPiRion	azkesz: ##(with-out-str (time 1))
07:26	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! pop-thread-bindings is bad!
07:26	hyPiRion	Try it in your own repl.
07:26	Sweden_jack	Did you try googling "print to string Clojure"?
07:26	azkesz	yeah that works hyPiRion
07:26	azkesz	I didn't Sweden_jack :)
07:27	Sweden_jack	Seems to me like that finds what you're looking for :)
07:27	magopian	nbeloglazov: i wanted to try the "obvious" solution first ;)
07:27	magopian	i'm gonna think about the "good" one now
07:28	magopian	(well, think about how to program it, i think i know what the solution should be)
07:28	azkesz	Sweden_jack, you're probably right, but I'm happy with hyPiRion's solution, also interesting to see ##(source with-out-str)
07:28	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
07:28	magopian	,(source with-out-str)
07:28	clojurebot	Source not found
07:28	magopian	$(source with-out-str)
07:28	Sweden_jack	azkesz: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/1.3.0/clojure.core/with-in-str
07:29	magopian	wrong one ;)
07:29	Sweden_jack	Oops, http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/with-out-str
07:29	Sweden_jack	;P
07:30	azkesz	awesome, how did you get that url ? I'm hoping from some script?
07:30	azkesz	or just type in that search bar?
07:31	azkesz	I wonder if clojure bots could trigger on source and show an url instead
07:31	Sweden_jack	azkesz: I personally used a keyword search (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Using_keyword_searches) but ClojureDocs generally shows up in search results as well
07:31	nbeloglazov	$cd with-out-str
07:31	lazybot	clojure.core/with-out-str: http://clojuredocs.org/v/1652
07:31	lazybot	clojure.core/with-out-str: http://clojuredocs.org/v/5848
07:32	nbeloglazov	$source with-out-str
07:32	lazybot	with-out-str is http://is.gd/3ZQwpP
07:33	nbeloglazov	azkesz: you can use cd or source command for lazybot ^^
07:33	hyPiRion	azkesz: That should be doable - would probably be some fork.
07:33	azkesz	thank you, that's very clever
07:33	hyPiRion	~botsnack
07:33	clojurebot	Thanks! Can I have chocolate next time
07:33	hyPiRion	~chocolate
07:33	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
07:33	azkesz	lol
07:34	Sweden_jack	(don't feed it chocolate...)
07:34	nbeloglazov	only source seems broken in lazybot :(
07:34	azkesz	it worked for me, but for 1.2 branch
07:35	azkesz	in this line: (let [s# (new java.io.StringWriter)] is s# the name of the variable ? or something special about it?
07:35	Sweden_jack	azkesz: it's a macro thing
07:36	hyPiRion	Yeah, you should learn macros before diving into gensyms and backquotes.
07:36	Sweden_jack	It basically creates a new symbol with a unique name, it's generally a bit neater than in Common Lisp
07:36	azkesz	oh i see, ##(`(x#))
07:36	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
07:37	Sweden_jack	azkesz: (maybe wait a bit before diving into macros)
07:37	azkesz	alright, back to reading
07:38	azkesz	I'm only like page 77 of manning clojure in action
07:38	hyPiRion	azkesz: It's a thing to look forward to though. It's a very powerful construct. Keep it like a carrot to continue learning Clojure ;)
07:38	azkesz	though I can't promise I'll remember anything:))
07:40	azkesz	but in that context, why was it necessary to generate uniquely named local variable, it's not like it would overwrite (locally) some other same named variable right?
07:40	azkesz	i mean here: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L4181
07:41	Sweden_jack	azkesz: Do you know how macros work?
07:41	hyPiRion	azkesz: Imagine if it was just (let [s (new StringWriter)] ...) instead.
07:41	azkesz	nope but I can guess why it was needed now lol
07:42	Sweden_jack	If you don't create a variable with a unique name it might capture some non-free variable outside of the macro
07:42	hyPiRion	then doing (let [s "hello"] (with-out-str (println s))) would expand to (let [s "hello"] (let [s (new StringWriter)] ... (println s))), which screws you up
07:42	azkesz	understood, that makes sense now
07:44	azkesz	,`(x#)
07:45	clojurebot	(x__27__auto__)
07:45	Sweden_jack	,(gensym)
07:45	clojurebot	G__56
07:45	azkesz	,(gensym)
07:45	clojurebot	G__83
07:46	azkesz	is it ever possible that the body could've already manually defined a variable which the next s# or gensym would create? or they auto detect if that variable was already taken and advances the counter to try next one?
07:46	hyPiRion	azkesz: Nope, it's impossible.
07:47	bosie	antares_: ok, so i got it to work with leiningen
07:48	bosie	antares_: but lein run is even slower than my regulara java apps (due to compiling)…. kinda defeats the purpose no?
07:48	antares_	bosie: it is very common to use REPL during development, with something like SLIME/swank or nREPL
07:49	antares_	I was saying that once you need to run an app, it is very uncommon to do it the way you run ruby or python programs (for example)
07:49	bosie	antares_: honestly, i use vim/intllij ;)
07:49	antares_	the same goes for lein test, SLIME/swank and probably vimclojure stuff lets you run tests without JVM restarts
07:49	antares_	as for La Clojure, I am not sure. I only use IDEA for Java :)
07:50	antares_	bosie: I am pretty sure VimClojure has support for this. Maybe ask on the mailing list? Sorry, I am an Emacs/IDEA user and can't help with that.
07:50	azkesz	looks like the counter increases directly proportional with the number of chars that I type in repl (except spaces) (in eclipse+ccw at least), I found that interesting :)
07:50	bosie	antares_: coming from java, i would just miss all the goodies from intellij in vim ;(
07:51	hyPiRion	bosie: Both vim and emacs are extensible, so you can add those features if you want to :)
07:51	hyPiRion	I would be surprised if not someone has done something like that already.
07:51	antares_	bosie: La Clojure has REPL integration but probably not test runner that reuses the same JVM
07:51	bosie	hyPiRion: it is undone for java… would be surprisd if it were happening for clojure
07:51	antares_	hyPiRion: it will be pretty hard to implement Clojure/Java completion IDEA has
07:52	bosie	hyPiRion: rubymine beats vim, easily. which i hate
07:52	antares_	emacs and vim can do not-so-trivial completion but only with SLIME and without interop awareness
07:53	bosie	antares_: i only know what rubymine is capable of and that is miles ahead of vim
07:53	antares_	bosie: Vim for Ruby and SLIME are not really comparable
07:53	antares_	SLIME has code structure awareness, that's its main purpose
07:54	bosie	antares_: right. i don't know slime
07:54	bosie	antares_: so slime does refactoring?
07:54	rbarraud	How about jack? ;-)
07:55	antares_	bosie: for Clojure it cannot do everything (you need to implement some adapters for every Lisp) but for Common Lisp it does
07:55	bosie	antares_: cool
07:55	antares_	and "find callers" kind of navigation
07:55	antares_	like Find Usages in IDEA
07:55	antares_	bosie: you can also try Nailgun
07:55	antares_	which is not specific to any JVM language
07:56	bosie	antares_: and create variables/methods/extract methods etc?
07:56	antares_	and override the command IDEA runner uses to run things over Nailgun
07:56	bosie	k
07:57	antares_	bosie: SLIME is a huge project and I don't know all of its capabilities but I don't think it focuses on refactoring operations like those you've mentioned
07:58	antares_	mostly navigation and find usages kind of things, documentation, REPL-oriented development
07:58	antares_	like eval-ing a region or buffer or form
07:58	bosie	but it basically allows me to change a line in a code that is currently running and it dynamically loads those changes ?
07:58	hyPiRion	bosie: change function definitions, yeah
07:59	hyPiRion	and defs.
07:59	antares_	bosie: you will need to re-eval it (like the entire buffer/file) if your tools don't do that but yes, it sends code to the JVM you already ahve running and it is compiled and reloaded there
07:59	antares_	clojure-test-mode in emacs does it for you, you don't need to re-eval test files
07:59	antares_	or implementation files, for that matter
08:00	antares_	just hit C-c C-, and see a green or red line
08:00	bosie	was more thinking along the lines of changing some number and see the changes right away
08:00	antares_	edit something, save, repeat
08:00	bosie	not necessarily about tests, but that is cool too
08:00	bosie	thanks guys
08:00	antares_	bosie: in that case you can either use a REPL buffer or reinstall a function with C-x C-e
08:00	bosie	appreciated
08:00	XPherior	Can anyone help me write a macro to take a form and double it? IE (the-macro '(a b)) => ((a b) (a b))
08:00	bosie	gtg
08:00	antares_	REPL buffer is basically REPL inside your editor, so you can do multi-line editing easily
08:01	antares_	XPherior: something like (defmacro doublah [form] `(do ~form ~form)) ?
08:02	antares_	XPherior: the key for macros that produce lists of forms is to not forget the (do …) part
08:02	XPherior	antares_: Ah. Yeah that's what I was missing. Also, I was trying to splice it with ~@
08:03	antares_	XPherior: you can use splicing if you want, too
08:03	antares_	as long as that's a collection
08:04	XPherior	antares_: Hm, okay. Thanks :)
08:07	XPherior	Be right back.
08:40	XPherior	Why does: (defmacro show [body] `(do ~body ~body)) and (show '(1 2)) return (1 2) ?
08:40	XPherior	I'd expect it to spit back ((1 2) (1 2))
08:41	stuartsierra	When you "invoke" a macro, the expression it returns gets evaluated.
08:41	XPherior	stuartsierra: Right. So how is it possible that my expectations evaluate to (1 2)?
08:42	stuartsierra	`do` returns the value of the last expression inside it.
08:42	XPherior	... Doh
08:42	XPherior	How does one return multiple forms from a macro, then?
08:43	stuartsierra	return a list
08:43	XPherior	Oh wait! I did it! `'(~body ~body)
08:43	hyPiRion	XPherior: Wrap it in vector or list
08:43	XPherior	I was really overthinking this one.
08:46	jweiss	is there a clojure FAQ somewhere that includes common pitfalls like "map is lazy"?
08:47	stuartsierra	clojurebot: faq?
08:47	clojurebot	FAQ #1 is http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/msg/8fc6f0e9a5800e4b
08:48	stuartsierra	ok, that's not what I meant
08:48	stuartsierra	http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/FAQ
08:49	jweiss	that doesn't include the "map is lazy" problem
08:49	stuartsierra	So add it.
08:49	jweiss	ok :)
08:49	jweiss	would that require a signed contrib agreement?
08:50	stuartsierra	oh shucks, I don't know
08:50	stuartsierra	probably yes, because that's how you get wiki edit access
08:50	jweiss	i'll try, probably about time i signed the agreement anyway
08:50	stuartsierra	thanks
09:06	N8Dawg	Hello Clojurists, I was wondering, a want a collection type which is non-standard, its basically a sorted-set-by but of a max-size, items can only be added when the set is full by displacing an existing item
09:06	N8Dawg	basically, is there one out there already, or if not how would one go about building one?
09:07	hyPiRion	what do you mean by "displacing an existing item"?
09:07	hyPiRion	Should the structure remove the item for you, or should you get an error when it is full?
09:08	N8Dawg	it should remove and add the new item
09:08	hyPiRion	What item should it remove?
09:08	N8Dawg	basically imagine i want the top 100 items of a seq with is 10000000 items long
09:08	N8Dawg	i could sort the entire set and take 100
09:08	N8Dawg	which is inefficient
09:09	nz-	N8Dawg: https://github.com/clojure/core.cache
09:09	N8Dawg	or I could build this collection type and reduce across irt
09:09	hyPiRion	Use priorityqueue
09:09	hyPiRion	Let me look it up
09:11	N8Dawg	nz-: So you suggest building something like a max-cache of a fixed size
09:11	hyPiRion	Okay, what you want is something like a max heap with a fixed size.
09:12	tomoj	every function has its own class, yes?
09:12	N8Dawg	hyPiRion: Yes if the heap is sorted
09:13	nz-	N8Dawg: well, cache doesn't provide ordering, so it wont suit you
09:14	clgv	tomoj: yes
09:14	tomoj	so might it make sense to extend protocols to function's classes?
09:16	hyPiRion	I thought this was something already implemented. Huh.
09:17	clgv	tomoj: no idea. why do you want to do that?
09:17	clgv	,(class map)
09:17	clojurebot	clojure.core$map
09:18	N8Dawg	hyPiRion: Basically i'd like to wrote something like: (reduce conj (bounded-sorted-set 100) collection)
09:18	clgv	tomoj: or do you mean extending a protocol to clojure.lang.Fn?
09:18	tomoj	no
09:18	clgv	,(-> map class ancestors)
09:18	clojurebot	#{clojure.lang.IFn java.lang.Object java.lang.Runnable java.util.concurrent.Callable clojure.lang.IObj ...}
09:18	hyPiRion	N8Dawg: Yeah, I realized.
09:19	tomoj	I'm thinking about automatic differentiation
09:19	clgv	how would you differentiat `map`?
09:19	tomoj	I considered a metadata flag, but then I have to maintain a special list of exceptions
09:19	tomoj	or vary-meta
09:20	tomoj	alter-meta! or whatever
09:26	tomoj	well I would extend Differentiable to map and put the implementation there
09:26	tomoj	it would assume f is Differentiable
09:26	tomoj	are you asking what the implementation is?
09:27	clgv	tomoj: you do this as a hobby project or for work?
09:28	tomoj	I'm not doing it yet, just thinking about it. hobby (that could someday be useful for work..)
09:30	hyPiRion	N8Dawg: I would just use (take 100 (sort ...)) as a temporary solution, and try to look up some PriorityQueue with a fixed size
09:31	hyPiRion	Someone really should have made one.
09:31	clgv	tomoj: well in most interesting cases you would have to differentiate numerical...
09:31	tomoj	not in the cases I am interested in
09:31	clgv	polynomials?
09:31	tomoj	mostly simple matrix math, some simple nonlinearities
09:32	clgv	ok
09:32	tomoj	basically I want to port theano to clojure
09:33	tomoj	to my knowledge they don't need to use numerical methods for the derivatives, but I could be wrong
09:35	jsabeaudry	Is org.clojure/tools.logging the general consensus when it comes to logging?
09:55	acheng	/msg leafw ping
09:55	@Chouser	that didn't work.
10:06	acheng	i have this impression that jobs-where-clojure-is-one-of-the-main-languages-used are few and therefore require more programmer-skill to get than jobs for other languages. is this accurate or inaccurate?
10:08	nDuff	acheng: Folks with production experience with Clojure are also fairly few.
10:09	Wild_Cat	as a non-mainstream language, Clojure requires, by definition, that you have invested some time of your own to learn it. Which usually implies more skills or at least more curiosity than the norm.
10:09	acheng	nDuff: heh, my users are co-workers so i don't count
10:09	hyPiRion	acheng: It's a good conclusion, but I disagree with the reasoning to the conclusion.
10:09	acheng	hyPiRion: what's a better reason?
10:09	nDuff	acheng: ...I can't give you a definitive answer, but last time I was job-hunting, there was at least one shop that was willing to hire me for a Clojure-centric position despite having only hobbyist experience at the time.
10:10	acheng	nDuff: did you take it? :)
10:10	nDuff	acheng: ...granted, they were willing to hire me largely because I had experience in large-scale provisioning and deployment automation
10:10	nDuff	acheng: No.
10:10	@Chouser	acheng: that may be. I know there are a few places hiring Clojure devs that are having some trouble finding applicants that match their requirements.
10:11	acheng	a recruiter just told me to learn scala instead.
10:11	acheng	sigh
10:12	acheng	sure i'll learn both. but i'm pretty sure i know which i'll always prefer
10:12	Wild_Cat	in my (very) humble opinion, if you're going to learn a language like Scala, you might as well go all the way and learn Haskell instead
10:12	hyPiRion	arbscht: I haven't solid evidence, but I believe that companies who see the value of Clojure have bosses with higher technical competance than other bosses.
10:12	@Chouser	I think most shops that have chosen Clojure want a small team of top notch devs. Therefore getting a Clojure job right now may require one to be able to demonstrate they are top notch.
10:13	@Chouser	LonoCloud is hiring top notch Clojure devs: http://lonocloud.com/careers.html
10:14	nDuff	nod -- they're the folks I was talking to
10:14	hyPiRion	And I usually consider higher technical competance in a boss as higher technical competance in their underlings.
10:14	scriptor	once you understand FP, haskell isn't even that hard
10:14	scriptor	but a lot of companies seem to be starting to tinker with scala
10:14	@Chouser	nDuff: May I ask why it didn't work out?
10:14	acheng	are there Haskell jobs?
10:15	scriptor	some, not as widespread
10:15	nDuff	Chouser: Something came up with offices in Austin and extremely competitive pay
10:16	@Chouser	I think Relevance is also hiring
10:16	acheng	the class i took in haskell/ml was dominated by a jerk who sat down front -- he'd ask questions every two minutes that no one else could hear and it totally disrupted the lecture flow.
10:16	hyPiRion	Yeah.
10:16	@Chouser	nDuff: Ah, sure. What language are you using there?
10:16	scriptor	Chouser: do you have to relocate to NC?
10:16	xeqi	wow, you have to download a pdf to see the job description
10:16	@Chouser	scriptor: I don't think so.
10:16	nDuff	Chouser: They're officially a Java shop, but as I'm my own team, I can get away with Clojure for most things.
10:16	@Chouser	nDuff: cool.
10:17	acheng	nDuff: your team consists of you? :)
10:17	Wild_Cat	scriptor: well, I've dabbled in Haskell, and kept finding things about its purity and balls-out laziness that disrupted my workflow more than it helped me.
10:18	nDuff	acheng: nod. Not as fun as it sounds -- place drew me in by interviewing with some of the smartest people I've met, and then I barely work with them in practice.
10:18	Wild_Cat	...that, and the community, while helpful, felt far too buried in PL theory and academic research for my tastes.
10:19	scriptor	hmm, I'll have to keep relevance in mind next time I go lookin
10:19	@Chouser	scriptor: and LonoCloud, right? :-)
10:19	Wild_Cat	(hence my learning Clojure, which, ironically for a Lisp, feels a lot more practical -- plus, I'm finally starting to get the elegance of the Lisp idiom)
10:19	scriptor	Chouser: eww california ;)
10:20	@Chouser	scriptor: just to visit! It's a fully distributed team
10:20	scriptor	oh, really?
10:20	xeqi	nDuff: is there a clojure group in austin?
10:20	@Chouser	And visiting San Diego occasionally is quite nice.
10:20	nDuff	xeqi: Yup -- just had a meetup this Monday
10:20	scriptor	I've gotten too used to non-telecommuter jobs where I just look at the location and leave
10:20	redinger	scriptor: No, Relevance doesn't require relocation to NC
10:20	Wild_Cat	while we're on the topic of user groups: is there one in Montreal?
10:20	acheng	if y'all could be a bit dumber, i'd stand a chance at being average :-P
10:21	xeqi	ah, http://www.meetup.com/Austin-Clojure-Meetup/ it looks like
10:21	scriptor	redinger: are all interviews over the phone/skype?
10:21	jkkramer	is there something like a clojure-jack-out command? slime-disconnect doesn't appear to kill the swank server
10:21	scriptor	Chouser: it is, been there once a while ago
10:21	redinger	scriptor: We do a phone interview, tech screen and remote pairing session. Then we bring you into the office for a day with the team here
10:21	stuartsierra	jkkramer: At the SWANK REPL, type a comma then type "quit"
10:21	@Chouser	ah, there you go.
10:22	redinger	But, half of our team is remote
10:22	@Chouser	I work at LonoCloud in case that wasn't yet obvious.
10:22	acheng	stuartsierra: is that different than sayoonara?
10:22	stuartsierra	acheng: I don't think so
10:22	acheng	stuartsierra: ok. just cultural preference :)
10:22	scriptor	Chouser: figured, prinicipal software engineer eh?
10:23	jkkramer	stuartsierra: thanks. forgot about the comma commands
10:23	scriptor	will let you know once I have 8 years of experience
10:27	@Chouser	scriptor: ok! or when you become as capable as someone who has 8 years experience...
10:33	cshell_	redinger: where do you work?
10:33	redinger	cshell_: Relevance
10:35	bosie	what does ~ do?
10:35	nDuff	bosie: inside a syntax-quote, it causes something to not be treated as quoted.
10:36	bosie	k
10:36	nDuff	bosie: ..."unquote" is the keyword to search for in the docs.
10:37	cshell_	redinger: ah cool - I came into the conversation late, who is hiring a principal software engineer in Clojure?
10:37	redinger	cshell_: Lonocloud
10:37	ejackson	how about an unprincipled one ?
10:37	nDuff	...in hindsight, Lonocloud may have actually been a better choice, with the position in question being ops-automation-centric.
10:37	cshell_	redinger: thanks
10:37	redinger	ejackson: I think they are all set in that dept. ;)
10:38	@Chouser	ejackson: not interested, thanks. ;-)
10:38	@Chouser	hey!
10:38	ejackson	hehehe
10:40	cshell_	Chouser: that posting looks like it's from March - are you having trouble finding the right person?
10:42	cshell_	or is it just that you only hire principal software engineers? :)
10:42	bosie	whats a principal software engineer?
10:42	@Chouser	cshell_: I think it's more than just one position. We've hired a few people since March
10:43	cshell_	Chouser: cool, what % of your code is Clojure?
10:45	@Chouser	oh, probably around 90%. There's some JS for the browser (though that's being transitioned to clojurescript now) and some Java for providing interop for customers.
10:45	bosie	Chouser: do you have problem finding _high quality_ clojure programmers in your area?
10:46	cshell_	Chouser: or just clojure programmers in general?
10:47	@Chouser	bosie: we're very intent on adding only high quality devs to the team, so that does narrow the pool, but we hire from all over the country. In fact I think we now have devs working from each time zone of the US.
10:48	jsabeaudry	Wild_Cat, yes there is, it's called Bonjure
10:48	bosie	Chouser: oh, you are doing remote hiring. that should of course solve your problem ;)
10:48	cshell_	that's awesome, I think that's a good philosophy to follow - hire the best regardless of where they live
10:49	@Chouser	bosie: well, helps. :-)
10:50	Wild_Cat	jsabeaudry: ah, nice, I'll check it out once I come back from my vacation in France
10:51	@Chouser	we just had our (roughly quarterly) physical meeting a couple weeks ago. This time they put us up here: http://goo.gl/maps/tuCZX
10:53	clgv	Chouser: I hope there was no formal dresscode required ;)
10:55	@Chouser	no, though we did have lunch at a place one day that required collared shirts and close-toed shoes. Caused a bit of a panic among the team, but it worked out ok.
10:56	scriptor	but you could still wear jeans?
10:56	bosie	Chouser: cos you guys figured out you could order online? ;)
10:56	@Chouser	scriptor: heh, yes.
10:58	bosie	whats wrong here: (defn current-path ((java.io.File. "") .getAbsolutePath))
10:58	S11001001	bosie: files aren't functions
10:58	Wild_Cat	bosie: you're missing the argument vector here.
10:59	bosie	Wild_Cat: thanks
10:59	Wild_Cat	...in fact, you probably want a regular def, not a defn -- or possibly even a let binding.
10:59	Wild_Cat	wait, nevermind that.
11:00	scriptor	Chouser: what kind of stuff do you guys typically work on? I see mentions of distributed archs and clouds
11:00	bosie	Wild_Cat: and i also have to swap the two things
11:00	Wild_Cat	yup.
11:00	bosie	Wild_Cat: (.getAbso (java.io.file "")
11:00	bosie	logical
11:00	bosie	dan
11:02	@Chouser	scriptor: yep, distributed algorithms and services, virtual resource management, basically all the tricky bits needed by most of the more complex apps as they transition to the cloud.
11:03	@Chouser	making use of all the normal clojure tech, but in some areas using ClojureScript, core.logic, or monads as appropriate.
11:04	bosie	Chouser: distributed algorithms in the cloud? hadoop replacement?
11:04	scriptor	where does the distributed bit come in, managing all the machines behind the cloud?
11:05	@Chouser	bosie: oh, I don't think that's quite an accurate characterization. But there are contexts where hadoop is not currently a good choice, such as if the pool of servers used needs to change dynamically during a long run or for other reasons.
11:06	bosie	Chouser: or if you want to run it quickly on less than 5TB of data ;)
11:08	@Chouser	scriptor: that, but also providing libraries for developers of apps that need to span multiple servers
11:08	@Chouser	bosie: :-)
11:12	azkesz	,((fn [x] (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (fn [x] (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
11:12	clojurebot	((fn [x] (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (fn [x] (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
11:40	@rhickey	agent users - more pool flexibility: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/commit/f5f4faf95051f794c9bfa0315e4457b600c84cef
11:40	@rhickey	configure the global pools and send-via a specific executor
11:41	cshell_	sweet, rich!
11:41	trptcolin	fantastic - thanks!
11:42	stuarthalloway	I think it needs some type checking and error messages to prevent misuse :-)
11:42	trptcolin	any plans for something similar for futures?
11:42	hyPiRion	Ah, decoupling. Nice.
11:43	cshell_	it always feels great to decouple
11:43	@Chouser	excellent
11:45	@rhickey	futures will get same soon
11:45	@rhickey	hoping to build future pool in ForkJoin
11:45	@rhickey	on
11:46	dnolen	nice
11:46	nDuff	Very nice.
11:46	@rhickey	gotta run, have fun!
11:46	trptcolin	nice. and i just realized futures' executors will be customizable already because they use Agent/soloExecutor under the hood. seem right?
11:46	@Chouser	send-via is key. I have converted code from using agents to using executors directly because of not having this.
11:46	nDuff	...being able to have a separate pool for those would be very convenient.
11:47	trptcolin	although since the executor static you probably want more flexibility with futures anyway (per-execution)
11:48	bosie	how is clojure financed these days?
11:48	bosie	back when i first looked at it it was through donation
11:48	nDuff	bosie: Many of the core contributors are employed by Relevance, which does consulting/training/whatnot
11:49	bosie	k
11:51	pjstadig	how does this affect shutdown-agents?
11:51	pjstadig	i guess you're responsible for your own pools
11:54	y3di	so is disclojure gone for good?
11:56	trptcolin	pjstadig: looks like shutdown-agents calls .shutdown on both soloExecutor and pooledExecutor, so assuming your executor honors those, wouldn't it be fine?
11:57	trptcolin	derp, of course i totally missed the binding version
12:06	antifuchs	hugod: so ritz is failing to install deps for me when trying to get leiningen:leiningen:jar:2.0.0-SNAPSHOT
12:06	antifuchs	hugod: this seems immensely weird, what's going on? (:
12:09	hugod	antifuchs: ah - leiningen doesn't publish snapshots - I had those in my local repo. I'll change them to preview8, hold on.
12:09	antifuchs	heh. I dropped the :dev dependencies for now (:
12:12	antifuchs	hugod: how do you try out ritz vs emacs?
12:12	antifuchs	hugod: as in, how do you run it? (:
12:12	TimMc	reiddraper: ^ see rhickey's ANN above re configuring agent threadpools
12:12	hugod	i do `lein ritz` and then M-x slime-connect
12:13	antifuchs	hugod: it seems to have some stale source's code somewhere
12:13	antifuchs	complains about symbols in a line that I fixed. do you compile anything / deploy somewhere?
12:14	antifuchs	my question is, how do you test your development version while you develop?
12:15	antifuchs	("test" is a loaded term, let's say "use") (:
12:22	hugod	antifuchs: ritz runs two vms - the "debugger" and the "user" vms for want of better names - there is no way to eval code in the debugger vm, but you can eval code normally in the user vm
12:23	hugod	this is something that I fixed in the nrepl-ritz, which can eval code in either vm, which makes dev much more pleasant
12:24	antifuchs	yeah, I don't really mind that. I just want the most convenient way to run the code that is currently in my ritz checkout as a swank server
12:24	antifuchs	right now, it's loading stale code ):
12:24	antifuchs	so the swank server can't start up, and no amount of lein clean'ing fixes it ):
12:25	hugod	this is lein2 I take it
12:26	antifuchs	yeah (:
12:27	technomancy_	weavejester: what exactly was the trouble you were seeing with tagged literals in lein-ring?
12:27	hugod	antifuchs: did you run `lein install` in lein-ritz too?
12:28	weavejester	technomancy_: I was passing the project map to a function via eval-in-project
12:28	antifuchs	I think I did try
12:28	weavejester	technomancy_: As I didn't want to put too much logic in the plugin, I just passed the whole map
12:28	technomancy_	weavejester: oh, so the form would fail if the project didn't have ordered and clojure 1.4?
12:28	weavejester	technomancy_: But in preview8, the map contains an ordered map literal
12:28	weavejester	technomancy_: Yep
12:28	technomancy_	I see. hrm.
12:28	hugod	antifuchs: each version of lein-ritz tries to load it's corresponding version of ritz. So in profile.sclj you'll need 0.4.0-SNAPSHOT as well
12:29	weavejester	technomancy_: I solved it just with select-keys - taking only the keys I needed
12:29	technomancy_	I think that's the right solution, I'm just concerned that breakage is going to happen elsewhere.
12:29	hugod	antifuchs: or RITZ_VERSION=0.4.0-SNAPSHOT lein ritz should work with any version of lein-ritz
12:29	technomancy_	the problem is that bugs coming from unordered :repositories would be very nasty and hard to track down =\
12:30	weavejester	technomancy_: Yeah, I probably shouldn't be passing the whole project map in anyway
12:31	technomancy_	well... not in this context anyway
12:31	technomancy_	dsantiago: is this going to cause trouble for configleaf?
12:32	antifuchs	ohhhhhh
12:32	antifuchs	hugod: oho, that might do it. will try when I get home!
12:55	antifuchs	hugod: that RITZ_VERSION string works, but it seems I have to "lein install" in the ritz dir every time
12:56	antifuchs	ah, hm, appears I can do this in the ritz/ dir too, not only the ritz/lein-ritz dir
12:58	hugod	antifuchs: right, to run your local changes you will need to be in the ritz dir
12:58	antifuchs	ok, cool.
12:58	antifuchs	think I got it now (:
12:59	antifuchs	now, to debug why this isn't connecting (:
12:59	hugod	a lot of pieces to get right...
12:59	technomancy_	any windows users running into this? https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/674
12:59	hugod	antifuchs: 'lein ritz 4005 localhost :log-level :trace' will give you a ton of output
13:00	antifuchs	yeah, it's what I'm doing now (:
13:00	antifuchs	(just not getting a ton of output. don't mind, I'll figure it out)
13:01	hugod	the port and hostname are required in order to specify :log-level
13:02	antifuchs	ah, oops (:
13:03	dsantiago	technomancy_: Not sure I understand the question?
13:04	technomancy_	dsantiago: the project map now contains tagged ordered map literals
13:04	technomancy_	so if you're going to try to read it from the project process, it'll fail unless you have ordered and 1.4+ on your classpath
13:05	dsantiago	Oh, hm. Yeah, well, it needs to handle the project map, so if that's not a data structure from clojure.core, it's gonna have a bad time.
13:05	dsantiago	But why wouldn't that be fairly easily fixable?
13:06	technomancy_	well you have to choose between a dependency upon ordered and the horrors of undefined :repository order
13:08	dsantiago	Sure, sure. I mean, if you're saying just adding an ordered dependency would fix it, that seems OK by me.
13:08	technomancy_	yeah, I guess as long as you don't need to support pre-1.4, you'll be good
13:08	technomancy_	since you can easily just add a dep to configleaf
13:09	dsantiago	Yup.
13:14	scriptor	hmm, the clojure35 coupon for joy of clojure still works
13:16	antifuchs	hugod: yay, it seems to be working (:
13:19	technomancy_	any users of lein trampoline want to review a patch for me?
13:20	antifuchs	hugod: how's it supposed to do backtraces? my canonical example of (/ 1 0) on the REPL just shows "; Evaluation aborted on java.lang.ArithmeticException: Divide by zero."
13:21	nz-_	what is this ritz thing? and how it is different from normal slime?
13:21	technomancy_	it should provide a significant speedup.
13:21	hugod	antifuchs: M-x slime-break-on-exception
13:22	hugod	I just changed the default to have it switched off
13:22	antifuchs	nz-: it's a less insane implementation of the swank side; you use normal slime, but ritz on the clojure side
13:22	antifuchs	hugod: huh
13:23	antifuchs	hugod: is that something that the swank decides? that seems odd (:
13:24	hugod	antifuchs: there are some issues with having it on by default - pretty much every exception is regarded as "caught" by the JVM, due to clojure's copious use of try-finally scopes
13:24	antifuchs	hmm. that seems suboptimal
13:24	hugod	So you get to see many exceptions
13:25	hugod	The default filters take a stab at just showing you a reasonable subset
13:25	technomancy	emezeske: interested in your thoughts on https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/commit/f9da16e37a3aa86b21321aceaea40a45541596d7 if you have a moment
13:25	technomancy	since you and your cohorts are probably the biggest trampoline users
13:26	antifuchs	hugod: so I wonder how swank-clojure does this. it didn't look too spammy, re. backtraces
13:26	emezeske	technomancy: Neat idea!
13:27	emezeske	technomancy: So it wouldn't have to load the first JVM to know the trampoline command?
13:27	technomancy	emezeske: exactly
13:27	technomancy	emezeske: I believe that the trampoline task should always be a pure function, so it should be safe to memoize
13:27	emezeske	technomancy: And the project.clj is hashed as part of invalidating the cache?
13:27	hugod	antifuchs: you were not using the jvm debugger there, I think, just seeing the exceptions that are truly uncaught.
13:28	technomancy	aye
13:28	antifuchs	oohhh
13:28	emezeske	That was the one corner case I could think of
13:28	antifuchs	hugod: that makes sense
13:28	hugod	antifuchs: ie, after the stack had been unwound
13:28	emezeske	technomancy: I think that should work great, although I agree it should be opt-in for a while
13:28	antifuchs	yeah, I was wondering about that. good to see it can be un-unwound, too (:
13:29	technomancy	cool
13:30	emezeske	technomancy: Damn it, my IRC client apparently lost it's nickname color cache. You just aren't the same in teal
13:30	technomancy	heh
13:30	technomancy	is the shasum executable present on OS X and Cygwin?
13:30	scriptor	looks like it's on osx
13:31	technomancy	I wonder if posix specifies a standard name
13:31	emezeske	WTF, shasum comes from the "perl" package on my ubuntu machine
13:32	scriptor	sourcing my shasum gives..weird errors
13:32	technomancy	any cygwinners?
13:32	technomancy	or (gasp) solarites?
13:32	technomancy	Licenser: you're on solaris, right?
13:33	scriptor	hmm, might depend on which cygwin packages you install, but I really have no clue
13:33	Licenser	technomancy I use SmartOS yap
13:33	technomancy	Licenser: is shasum present?
13:34	Licenser	on smartOS yes
13:34	technomancy	cool; thanks
13:34	technomancy	bash doesn't have any equivalent of deleteOnExit, does it?
13:35	Licenser	cksum -x sha256 is also valid on solaris
13:35	technomancy	good to know
13:35	technomancy	we'll go with shasum unless cygwin hates it
13:35	rlb	technomancy: you'd have to do it yourself I think, via 'trap EXIT ...'
13:35	Licenser	so I think cksum is preffered
13:36	technomancy	Licenser: why's that?
13:37	technomancy	FWIW it doesn't even need to hash to the same value across machines, just consistently locally
13:40	technomancy	rlb: thanks
13:42	technomancy	rlb: do you know if that will trigger if the script "exits" via execing another?
13:44	@Chouser	technomancy: from my bash wizard friend: trap 'do something; exit' 0 1 2 3 15
13:44	Licenser	technomancy because it's a pluggable system :) and more guaranteed to be present.
13:44	technomancy	Chouser: the numbers indicate signals?
13:44	@Chouser	he says that won't be triggered if you exec
13:45	@Chouser	"put cleanup in a function; call it from both places"
13:45	technomancy	Chouser: oh, I actually do want it triggered for exec
13:45	@Chouser	yes, the numbers are signals
13:45	@Chouser	except 0 which is normal exit
13:46	technomancy	err--I don't necessarily need it triggered at the time of exec, I just need it triggered at least when the exec'd process exits
13:47	technomancy	I guess I can do science to it
13:47	l1x	hey guys, how can i apply a java function to all the members in a hash-set and capture the result (only strings) in a list?
13:48	y3di	has anyone messed around with neo4j?
13:48	@Chouser	technomancy: "then don't exec; just run and exit"
13:50	technomancy	it's cleaner if I can exec, but I guess it doesn't matter
13:50	emezeske	l1x: (map (memfn yourMemberFunction) your-hash-set)
13:52	l1x	emezeske: awesome! (map (memfn getCanonicalName) (jmx/mbean-names "hadoop:*")) it just works like charm
13:53	@Chouser	technomancy: he also wants me to note that bash, sh, and ksh treat trap differently. This advice only applies to bash.
13:53	@Chouser	wow, memfn!
13:55	nz-	somebody mentioned today about problems with heroku deploy
13:55	nz-	Running: LEIN_NO_DEV=y lein deps
13:55	nz-	/app/slug-compiler/lib/../../tmp/buildpacks/clojure/bin/compile: line 91: LEIN_NO_DEV=y: command not found
13:55	technomancy	nz-: oh?
13:55	nz-	! Failed to build.
13:55	nz-	! Heroku push rejected, failed to compile Clojure app
13:55	technomancy	nz-: I fixed that a couple days ago; are you still seeing it?
13:55	nz-	I have same thing noe
13:56	nz-	should I update heroku toolbelt?
13:56	SegFaultAX\|work2	nz-: I think that's coming from the buildpack.
13:56	technomancy	no, it's not client-side. if you give me the app name I can investigate further
13:56	technomancy	feel free to /msg me
13:56	nz-	ok, just a minute
14:00	_ulises	nz-, technomancy: I was having the same issue this morning; I haven't checked if it's been fixed since
14:00	_ulises	nz-, technomancy: I even started with a plain-vanilla clojure project (lein new) to see whether it was anything to do with my old project but nope
14:01	technomancy	_ulises: are you using lein2 locally?
14:01	_ulises	technomancy: no, lein1
14:02	technomancy	_ulises: here's a temporary fix; I should have something better soon: heroku config:add "BUILDPACK_URL=http://github.com/heroku/heroku-buildpack-clojure.git#v4"
14:02	technomancy	emezeske: btw, just pushed fast trampolines to master. export LEIN_FAST_TRAMPOLINES=y to try it out
14:02	technomancy	^ or anyone else interested in faster project boot via trampolines
14:03	_ulises	technomancy: that did it; thanks!
14:03	emezeske	technomancy: woot!
14:04	technomancy	_ulises: did you try lein2 and have problems with it, or are you just on lein1 because you haven't gotten around to upgrading?
14:04	_ulises	technomancy: I haven't gotten round upgrading though it's in my TODO list
14:05	_ulises	technomancy: should I add that fix to my other projects or wait for a push from you?
14:05	technomancy	_ulises: I hope to have a fix out in a few minutes
14:05	_ulises	technomancy: cool; I'll hang out then
14:05	SegFaultAX\|work2	technomancy: What's the easiest way to upgrade lein to 2?
14:05	SegFaultAX\|work2	technomancy: I'm currently on 1.7.1
14:05	technomancy	that config will block you from getting buildpack updates in the future, so you'll want to drop it once this is fixed
14:05	technomancy	clojurebot: upgrading to lein 2?
14:05	clojurebot	lein is not the best way to learn java
14:05	technomancy	clojurebot: shut up
14:05	clojurebot	Excuse me?
14:06	technomancy	clojurebot: upgrading to leiningen 2?
14:06	clojurebot	upgrading to leiningen 2 is easy with this handy upgrade guide: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/wiki/Upgrading
14:06	technomancy	there we go
14:06	rlb	technomancy: wrt exec, didn't know myself offhand, but I'm not surprised if it doesn't work there. And note that you can also use the symbolic signal names, i.e. EXIT, INT, etc.
14:06	_ulises	technomancy: what was broken if you don't mind me asking?
14:06	technomancy	^ SegFaultAX\|work2: ^
14:06	SegFaultAX\|work2	technomancy: Thank'ye
14:06	technomancy	_ulises: I've added support for auto-detecting lein1 vs lein2 and the lein1 section has a bug in detecting whether you want dev/test stuff on the classpath.
14:07	borkdude	So, what must I do to get clojure code highlighted in html5?
14:07	_ulises	technomancy: right
14:07	_ulises	technomancy: so the alternate workaround is to upgrade to v2 ;)
14:08	technomancy	_ulises: that'd be ideal =)
14:08	_ulises	technomancy: soon enough :)
14:16	ibdknox	Light Table 0.1.0 is up :D
14:16	ibdknox	http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/08/17/light-table-reaches-010/
14:16	technomancy	_ulises, nz-: fix is pushed, just need to wait for it to propagate to the build machines.
14:16	scriptor	(inc ibdknox)
14:16	lazybot	⇒ 7
14:16	borkdude	ibdknox upgrading
14:17	_ulises	technomancy: thanks and yay \o/
14:18	technomancy	_ulises: ok, it's live now
14:19	antifuchs	ibdknox: ugh, unsigned .jar ):
14:19	antifuchs	ibdknox: os x 10.8 complains heavily and refuses to open it
14:19	_ulises	technomancy: pushing; will keep you updated
14:20	borkdude	ibdknox it seems to hang on "starting server", OSX here
14:21	antifuchs	ibdknox: (of course, java -jar launcher.jar works, but that's not exactly as advertised)
14:21	technomancy	people still run OS X in restricted mode?
14:21	ibdknox	antifuchs: that's OS X being retarded
14:21	ibdknox	I haven't moved to 10.8 yet
14:22	ibdknox	technomancy: they turned it on by default with the latest update... :(
14:22	antifuchs	they did
14:22	technomancy	ibdknox: I would have thought everyone with the slightest bit of technical chops would have turned it off by now
14:22	antifuchs	and I'm not likely to turn it off (:
14:22	ibdknox	technomancy: (me too)
14:22	casion	why would you leave it on?
14:22	dnolen	ibdknox: SWEET
14:22	antifuchs	because I want to see what breaks.
14:22	antifuchs	also, I like getting ridiculed in public
14:23	casion	I wasn't ridiculing you… yet
14:23	borkdude	ibdknox didn't know I had to download a launcher, never mind
14:23	casion	now I think I will though ;)
14:23	technomancy	I guess it makes sense if you want to feel the pain of nontechnical users
14:23	antifuchs	casion: go on, it'll only reduce my motivation to contribute
14:23	casion	10.8 still isint usable for me anyway, not till avid updates their shit
14:23	casion	antifuchs: I was kidding :(
14:24	antifuchs	ok ok (:
14:24	technomancy	we got bitten by that with the heroku client; all the macoseckists working at heroku turned off restricted mode the day they upgraded, so no one noticed the fact that our installer was getting blacklisted until the support tickets started rolling in.
14:24	antifuchs	so far, 10.8 has worked well for me, and the gatekeeper warnings have not been super annoying
14:25	antifuchs	or rather, this was the first that I saw that wasn't something I could live without
14:25	ibdknox	technomancy: do you remember what you guys had to do to fix it?
14:26	scriptor	ibdknox: small bug, when the tutorial has you enter code in the scratchpad, you can't enter a space in the scratchpad (unless you enter shift+space)
14:26	technomancy	ibdknox: we had to sign up for a bullshit developer package and load a bunch of apple-approved certs into our CI box
14:26	ibdknox	gr
14:26	ibdknox	scriptor: ah, thanks, should be an easy fix :)
14:30	dnolen	ibdknox: you didn't mention ClojureScript support in this version did you?
14:30	antifuchs	well well well. light table seems pretty nice and usable so far
14:30	ibdknox	dnolen: I pulled it, it'll show up in not too long :)
14:30	dnolen	ibdknox: gotcha, cool
14:31	ibdknox	dnolen: it works as far as I know, but didn't have time to really test it and didn't want to release that until it happens
14:33	_ulises	technomancy: success! thanks again
14:35	muhoo	hehehe, google closure makes javascript look like java
14:36	stuartsierra	muhoo: That's kind of the point.
14:36	stuartsierra	Or really, the point is to turn JS into a statically-compiled language.
14:37	antifuchs	ibdknox: looking at ritz source code, the function overview of a lot of namespaces shows tons of (defslimefun …) forms
14:37	antifuchs	ibdknox: would be interesting if LT could disambiguate them a bit (:
14:37	ibdknox	antifuchs: you'll be able to specify rules for that
14:38	antifuchs	neat! (:
14:38	ibdknox	antifuchs: didn't make it into this release, but hopefully the next
14:38	scriptor	muhoo: with GWT and all, probably not a coincidence :)
14:38	antifuchs	there's this emacs thing that automatically disambiguates emacs file buffer names. it's really pretty good.
14:39	jkkramer_	ibdknox: on save, table seems to have removed all top-level comments from the file I was working on
14:40	antifuchs	like, have files ~/projects/foo/test/stuff.clj ~/projects/foo/lib/db/stuff.clj and ~/projects/something-else/test/stuff.clj open and it'll name them test/stuff.clj, db/stuff.clj and something-else/stuff.clj respectively. Very handy.
14:40	gfredericks	I'm having a surprisingly hard time coming up with a hacky way to parse some JSON from the middle of some not JSON
14:41	Bronsa	ibdknox: i get "Error: Could not find or load main class lighttable.server"
14:42	Bronsa	wait, i did light update, I'm trying with the launcher, maybe that's it
14:44	muhoo	gfredericks: i'd guess the first task would be to separate out the json from the not-json, then send the json to something like cheshire?
14:44	Bronsa	yeah, that was it
14:45	gfredericks	muhoo: the second part is easy
14:46	nz-	antifuchs: do you happen to remember name for that emacs disambiguation thing?
14:47	technomancy	nz-: it's uniquify
14:54	mattmoss	,(bytes [1 2 3])
14:54	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to [B>
14:55	dnolen	ibdknox: I did notice Light Table seems a bit slow if you load a largish file.
14:56	dnolen	ibdknox: I mean slow to show the contents of the file initially.
14:56	ibdknox	dnolen: yeah, it's creating a bunch of editors, which is really slow right now
14:57	dnolen	ibdknox: ah individual CodeMirror editors?
14:57	ibdknox	dnolen: yeah. I think we're going to work with Marijn a bit on that :)
14:57	kovasb	I wish it was easy to retain the exact same syntax highlighting, and just move the active editor from cell to cell
14:58	kovasb	no need to have more than 1 editor at a time, can only type in 1 place at once
14:58	ibdknox	ideally though, the thought was you wouldn't open full files a bunch
14:59	kovasb	ibdknox: evaluating (+ 1 1) in scratch gives me clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: + in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:2:2)
14:59	@Chouser	technomancy: isn't "$INPUT_CHECKSUM" = "" always true on line 250 [this from a friend]
14:59	kovasb	ibdknox: also, the spacebar didn't work while the tutorial mode was active
14:59	ibdknox	kovasb: did you connect to a different project? it's probably in a NS that doesn't exist
15:00	ibdknox	kovasb: yeah, just fixed the spacebar thing
15:00	kovasb	ibdknox: connected to existing project right as the first thing i did
15:00	ibdknox	hm
15:00	ibdknox	it should fix itself if you open an editor
15:00	kovasb	just reloaded. in the user namespace it works
15:01	@Chouser	mattmoss: did you want (into-array (map byte [1 2 3]))
15:01	kovasb	went into a namespace, not working
15:05	mattmoss	@Chouser: I was trying to figure out what makes a byte[][] signature using into-array. Figured it out: (into-array (class (byte-array nil)) ...)
15:05	mattmoss	Calling into a Java API that uses byte[][] in a few places.
15:06	@Chouser	ah
15:10	@Chouser	mattmoss: another option: (make-array Byte/TYPE 4 4) for a 4x4 byte[][]
15:11	mattmoss	Chouser: Thanks... though I suspect the details of the byte[] values, it is an opaque object handed to me that I have to hand back later... so I don't really know the actual contents/dimensions.
15:12	@Chouser	ok
15:34	ibdknox	dnolen: ah, I also just realized I originally pushed one with only optimizations simple. Just uploaded a new 0.1.0 with advanced, that'd probably speed it some (though not immensely)
15:34	dnolen	ibdknox: cool.
15:34	ibdknox	dnolen: to force it to download again, just remove ~/.lighttable/bin/
15:35	dnolen	ibdknox: thx
15:42	eggsby	hmm, what's the simplest way to set http headers for all routes in compojure... just some sort of middleware?
15:46	emezeske	eggsby: That sounds right to me.
15:46	eggsby	just wanted to make sure there wasn't some other convention
15:53	AWizzArd	Are non-primitive type-hints allowed (i.e. useful to not need to type-hint in later use) in deftypes?
15:54	technomancy	Chouser: INPUT_CHECKSUM is set when LEIN_FAST_TRAMPOLINES is on
15:55	technomancy	but checking for LEIN_FAST_TRAMPOLINES might be better?
15:55	technomancy	I wanted to also support setting it on a per-project basis with touch .lein-fast-trampolines
15:55	@Chouser	ah, I see.
16:07	AWizzArd	Oh hmm. Why is .al not hinted to return an ArrayList :-( (deftype Foo2000 [^ArrayList al])
16:08	amalloy	AWizzArd: within the body of the deftype just referring to al works
16:08	amalloy	but it's stored as just an Objecr field, so external clients don't know it's an ArrayList
16:10	AWizzArd	Yes, inside the body it’s working. I just thought it would be nice to see it on the outside too. Wouldn’t hurt.
16:10	nyash	hi, just playing with clojure and I am surprised by this behaviour: http://ideone.com/PYfYj Why is the output so different?
16:13	symuyn	Hey, I'm having trouble with a sequence transformation. If I wanted to change (2 0 0 2 5 0 9 0 0 0 10 2) into (() 2 (0 0) 2 () 5 (0) 9 (0 0) 10 () 2), how would I do this?
16:13	symuyn	The point of this is to count how many zeroes precede (or follow, maybe) each non-zero item.
16:14	eggsby	nyash: quote is a special form, not a function
16:14	xeqi	&(partition-by (partial = 0) '(2 0 0 2 5 0 9 0 0 0 10 2))
16:14	lazybot	⇒ ((2) (0 0) (2 5) (0) (9) (0 0 0) (10 2))
16:15	xeqi	well, not quite
16:15	emezeske	nyash: Have you used macroexpand to look at what your macro is expanding to?
16:15	emezeske	nyash: I think if you look at that, you will understand the problem
16:15	symuyn	Hmm, yeah, I can't see how I'd do it with partition, or just partition, xeqi
16:16	nyash	emezeske: ah I see => (str quote (1 2 3)). Any way that I could prevent it from getting inserted?
16:17	eggsby	hmm, is there any way to see what 'let' expands to?
16:18	emezeske	nyash: Since you're writing a macro, you don't need to quote the forms you pass to it
16:18	eggsby	i.e. is it ever possible to see something like (let [x 1 y 2] (+ x y)) as (+ 1 2)
16:18	emezeske	nyash: So just (applies str (1 2 3)) should work just fine
16:18	nyash	emezeske: ah I see thank you.
16:19	eggsby	let expands to let, but the source for let is not found... hm
16:20	Raynes	ibdknox: Light table will never be successful unless you go the extra step and have a launcher that downloads an installer that downloads an installer that requires 2 consecutive restarts.
16:21	technomancy	Raynes: implemented in Adobe AIR, naturally?
16:21	Raynes	Even better.
16:21	ibdknox	Raynes: technomancy: have you ever installed VS?
16:21	ibdknox	I shit you not it required 4 restarts
16:21	Raynes	ibdknox: No, but I've heard stories.
16:21	technomancy	wat
16:21	Raynes	4!?!? I thought it was 2 and that horrified me!
16:22	_tca	eggsby: that's not what let does anyway, if you want to see the values in place use symbol-macrolet
16:22	ibdknox	they eventually got it down to 2
16:22	technomancy	restart... is that like when you start and then you start again?
16:22	ibdknox	technomancy: reboots
16:22	@Chouser	,((fn f [xs] (lazy-seq (when (seq xs) (let [[zeros [num & more]] (split-with zero? xs)] (list* zeros num (f more)))))) '(2 0 0 2 5 0 9 0 0 0 10 2))
16:22	technomancy	oh, I've heard of those
16:22	clojurebot	(() 2 (0 0) 2 () ...)
16:22	ibdknox	haha
16:23	technomancy	they're for footwear enthusiasts, right?
16:23	ibdknox	yep! We don't promote shoes with LT
16:23	Raynes	ibdknox: How big is whatever this thing is 'fetching'?
16:23	ibdknox	28mb I think
16:24	Raynes	Methinks it might have stopped trying.
16:24	Raynes	ibdknox: Where from?
16:24	ibdknox	s3
16:24	ibdknox	it was going a bit slowly for me eearlier
16:24	Raynes	I'm far enough away from the router to make it moderately slow, but I don't think it has moved in 5 minutes.
16:24	Raynes	Oh, there it went.
16:25	ibdknox	s3 must be getting hit hard
16:25	Raynes	It didn't occur to me that the bar was so short.
16:25	Raynes	It was exactly one equal away from being done.
16:25	Raynes	:p
16:25	symuyn	Jeez louise, Chouser—haha, thank you
16:25	ibdknox	I think there are 20 segments if I remember right
16:25	@Chouser	symuyn: :-)
16:25	symuyn	I was hoping it'd be possible without lazy-seq, but, oh well
16:25	@Chouser	symuyn: I'm sure there's something simpler, but maybe not that returns a lazy seq
16:26	Raynes	ibdknox: omg block creature thingy cool
16:26	symuyn	Yeah, I mean recursion, of course
16:26	symuyn	But thank you again
16:26	ibdknox	haha
16:26	Raynes	How long is connecting supposed to take?
16:27	ibdknox	Raynes: however long it would normally take for eval-in-project to spin up for that project
16:27	Raynes	Okay, then should it give me an error if something went wrong?
16:28	ibdknox	I think so, but there's definitely a non-zero possibility that something went wrong and I couldn't catch it
16:28	ibdknox	speaking of...
16:28	Raynes	Apparently so.
16:28	amalloy	Chouser, symuyn: zero? breaks on anything but numbers. i'd use #{0} rather than zero? if you're not sure your whole sequence will contain only numbers
16:28	Raynes	It is just sitting there and hates me and stuff.
16:28	ibdknox	technomancy: leiningen calls (system/exit) a lot
16:28	semperos	connecting with lighttable was a little quirky for me today
16:28	Raynes	ibdknox: Was I supposed to have lein-light and stuff set up.
16:28	Raynes	?
16:29	amalloy	not more than once per instance, i'd hope, ibdknox
16:29	symuyn	Yeah, amalloy, it's actually not for numbers at all; the predicate can be general of course
16:29	ibdknox	Raynes: nope
16:29	semperos	first attempt at connecting to an existing project brough up no namespaces
16:29	technomancy	ibdknox: always via leiningen.core.main/exit, hopefully?
16:29	technomancy	which can be suppressed
16:29	ibdknox	ah
16:29	symuyn	amalloy: It's for a sequence of string lines, and I want to determine how many blank lines precede (or succeed) each non-blank line
16:31	Raynes	ibdknox: Good news, looks like it didn't break the second time around.
16:31	ibdknox	yay
16:32	ibdknox	only sort of good news though
16:32	ibdknox	inconsistent bugs are the hardest to fix :p
16:33	Raynes	This looks really cool.
16:33	Raynes	No paredit, but cool nonetheless.
16:34	Raynes	;)
16:36	Raynes	ibdknox: Yo.
16:36	Raynes	ibdknox: Can I change the codemirror color theme used?
16:37	ibdknox	Raynes: hm, you could modify the jar, but I haven't made that stuff "easy" yet
16:37	Raynes	Aw. I'd like to use the tomorrow night theme I wrote for refheap.
16:37	Raynes	Speaking of which, you should look at it and make it default. Or, I mean, look at it.
16:39	Raynes	ibdknox: You know what would be really cool?
16:39	ibdknox	Raynes: space!
16:39	Raynes	If you could arrange a sort of function-level dependency tree.
16:40	Raynes	And then rearrange the file based on it.
16:40	ibdknox	Raynes: yeah, that's one of the next things on my list
16:40	Raynes	Not by default, but having it as an option would be cool.
16:40	ibdknox	Raynes: being able to easily navigate the call tree so you can build that context up really quickly
16:40	ibdknox	ooo
16:40	ibdknox	I misunderstood
16:41	ibdknox	you can drag and drop, but yeah, still manual right now
16:41	ibdknox	it probably wouldn't be that hard to have it automatically order it
16:41	AWizzArd	ibdknox: can you give a wc on clj vs. js?
16:41	Raynes	I'd be cool if the var (form?) list was a tree or something.
16:41	ibdknox	AWizzArd: wc?
16:41	AWizzArd	shell tool
16:41	Raynes	NaNNaNNaNNaN
16:42	ibdknox	oh it's all written in CLJ and CLJS
16:42	ibdknox	I haven't written any JS myself
16:42	AWizzArd	Ah (-:
16:42	AWizzArd	You let the computer write it for you. Neat.
16:43	AWizzArd	And can you give loc of clj vs. cljs?
16:43	ibdknox	overwhelmingly CLJS
16:44	AWizzArd	20/80 ?
16:44	ibdknox	looks like around 1300 lines of CLJ and 3300 lines of CLJS
16:44	ibdknox	that includes the libs I wrote though
16:44	ibdknox	so that's not quite right
16:44	ibdknox	just a second
16:45	ibdknox	ah, no it doesn't.
16:45	ibdknox	That appears to be the actual breakdown :)
16:46	ibdknox	a lot of that will get cleaned up though
16:46	ibdknox	my suspicion is that in reality LT is about 3500 lines
16:46	Raynes	ibdknox: How many lines of genreated js if you pretty print? ;)
16:46	Raynes	generated*
16:47	ibdknox	30k
16:47	ibdknox	lol
16:47	Raynes	Haha
16:47	ibdknox	with simple optimizations on
16:47	ibdknox	in dev?
16:47	ibdknox	I think it was about double
16:47	ibdknox	something stupidly high
16:48	Raynes	ibdknox: refheap has never looked better than it does in light table.
16:48	Raynes	Even with this hideous color scheme.
16:49	ibdknox	:p
16:49	Raynes	Please, for the love of God, make it possible to change that thing soon.
16:49	Raynes	I'll go write code on refheap and then copy it back to light table. :P
16:49	ibdknox	hatin' on my colors
17:07	Raynes	ibdknox: So, how do I add functions again?
17:12	Frozenlock	Oh sure, just when I ask technomancy to stop being so awesome so that I could stop being ashamed of myself, ibdknox makes a new move.
17:13	Frozenlock	I should stop hanging in #emacs and #clojure, it's hard for my self esteem :(
17:14	technomancy	Frozenlock: or you could help out with Leiningen =)
17:15	technomancy	newbie tickets: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues?labels=Newbie&milestone=&page=1&state=open
17:15	devinus	can anybody tell me what neat things are going into clj 1.5?
17:16	hyPiRion	devinus: Reducers is the main thing as of now, I believe.
17:17	devinus	Reducers are the big 1.5 feature?
17:17	Frozenlock	technomancy: I'll take a look!
17:19	hyPiRion	devinus: It's not a gamebreaking feature, but it's the one I know as of now.
17:19	devinus	it sounds interseting
17:20	hyPiRion	Mr. Hickey also decoupled agents earlier today, so that you're now able to choose what thread pool it should be in
17:20	hyPiRion	So it's more or less performance all the way (?)
17:21	devinus	oh nice
17:21	devinus	i was wondering if there was a way to do that earlier this week
17:43	pepijndevos	What is the most complete JNA wrapper for clojure? The one chouser wrote 3 years ago?
17:50	SegFaultAX\|work2	Light Table 0.1.0 is being glitchy :(
17:51	muhoo	https://www.refheap.com/paste/4451 w?
17:51	muhoo	no checksums available from org.sonatype.aether wat?
17:53	muhoo	Frozenlock: clojure has been great for my skillset, but absolutely horrible for my self esteem
17:53	muhoo	these guys are frickin' geniuses
17:54	devn	it's far better to be the worst guy in the band
17:54	Raynes	Than to not be in the band at all.
17:54	technomancy	muhoo: invoking pomegranate directly?
17:55	technomancy	you can change its checksum policy
17:55	muhoo	technomancy: yes, via add-dependencies
17:55	technomancy	muhoo: but you should yell at the incanter devs; not having checksums sucks
17:55	muhoo	k, will do
17:56	pepijndevos	dasl https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Carbon/Reference/QuartzEventServicesRef/Reference/reference.html
17:58	dnolen	ibdknox: whoa, that's a lot of CLJS
17:58	dnolen	ibdknox: still, that's suprisingly little code for how much functionality you guys already have.
17:59	bosie	why is this false: (.equals "5" (get "12345" 4))
17:59	dnolen	,(get "12345" 4)
17:59	clojurebot	\5
17:59	dnolen	(= "5" \5)
17:59	dnolen	,(= "5" \5)
17:59	clojurebot	false
17:59	bosie	right
17:59	dnolen	bosie: String & Character are not the same.
18:00	amalloy	i didn't know get worked on strings
18:00	bosie	hm
18:00	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Doesn't get work on any seq?
18:01	nz-	is there somewhere a log of this channel?
18:01	bosie	dnolen: wrapping it in (str) ?
18:01	SegFaultAX\|work2	nz-: Your backlog, for starters.
18:01	dnolen	bosie: yeah could do that or just compare to \5
18:01	dnolen	,(.equals \5 (get "12345" 4))
18:01	clojurebot	true
18:01	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work2: certainly not
18:01	bosie	dnolen: \5 doesn't work either
18:01	bosie	hm
18:01	nz-	anything more reliable?
18:02	bosie	oh
18:02	bosie	\5 not "\5"
18:02	dnolen	nz-: http://clojure-log.n01se.net
18:02	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Oh, well sets I guess wouldn't make sense. But surely any fixed key seq, no?
18:03	amalloy	seqs don't have keys
18:03	nz-	ok, thanks
18:04	hyPiRion	get works on sets.
18:04	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Position is a key.
18:04	hyPiRion	,(get #{1 2 3} 2)
18:04	clojurebot	2
18:04	nz-	so lein2 preview8 doesn't seem to work with compojure/ring projects
18:05	weavejester	nz-: Try lein-ring 0.7.3 if "lein ring server" is causing problems
18:05	bosie	dnolen: so why can i write \5?
18:05	SegFaultAX\|work2	hyPiRion: I wouldn't rely on that though, since the ordering is arbitrary.
18:05	bosie	dnolen: and not like '5' or "5"
18:05	SegFaultAX\|work2	bosie: \5 is the character 5. Not the string nor the number, the character.
18:05	technomancy	SegFaultAX\|work2: get on sets doesn't use ordering
18:05	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work2: you are saying nonsense to me and to hyPiRion
18:05	hyPiRion	SegFaultAX\|work2: Get doesn't work like that.,
18:06	bosie	SegFaultAX\|work2: i know
18:06	technomancy	heh
18:06	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Oh? What am I missing?
18:06	hyPiRion	Wow, heh.
18:06	jlewis	amalloy: finally got to the bottom of my bug from the other day, by the way. it turns out that it was caused by http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-829
18:06	hyPiRion	,(get #{:a :b :c} :c)
18:06	clojurebot	:c
18:06	Frozenlock	technomancy: I wanted to give a shot at this one https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/638, but I can't even find where the tests are generated! Could you give me a hint? :)
18:06	jlewis	which was fixed in clojure 1.4. megablah.
18:06	SegFaultAX\|work2	Oh, I'm getting nth mixed up with get.
18:06	amalloy	get is not related to indexes, in general
18:06	SegFaultAX\|work2	Disregard.
18:07	technomancy	Frozenlock: oh, I think that one's already fixed; it's in the lein-newnew project
18:07	technomancy	it just hasn't been pulled in by leiningen yet because I need to cut a release
18:07	hyPiRion	Think of sets as maps where both key and value have same value.
18:07	amalloy	jlewis: you had some iterator issue?
18:07	Frozenlock	Oh...
18:07	amalloy	and it's somehow related to transients?
18:08	nz-	weavejester: tried but now it complains about Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.lang.IHashEq
18:08	Frozenlock	Well at least after browsing the source code I have a better understanding of how it works :)
18:09	nz-	but time for bed
18:09	weavejester	nz-: Not sure what would cause that...
18:09	nz-	i'll investigate it more on weekend
18:09	weavejester	Goodnight
18:17	antifuchs	oh bloody swank::%cursor-marker%
18:18	zakwilso1	So lighttable is looking good, but I can't seem to find any way to have it either eval everything in a namespace or in the document. Do I have to use load-file for now, or is there a better way to do this?
18:20	Gnosis-	is there a way to tell the Clojure compiler that a function is pure, for optimization purposes?
18:22	technomancy	Gnosis-: unfortunately not
18:22	SegFaultAX\|work2	What additional optimizations could occur if such information was available to the compiler?
18:22	Gnosis-	so the compiler assumes that no functions are pure?
18:23	Gnosis-	SegFaultAX\|work2: memoization, maybe? I can't think of anything else off the top of my head
18:23	zakwilso1	A sufficiently smart compiler and/or runtime could automatically parallelize or memoize pure functions.
18:24	SegFaultAX\|work2	At the cost of infinite memory, maybe.
18:24	bosie	Gnosis-: being able to run it in parallel
18:25	Gnosis-	yeah, that would be nice
18:25	SegFaultAX\|work2	Sure, parallelization would be nice. But even if the compiler did know it was pure, it couldn't memoize the calls.
18:27	amalloy	(let [x 1, y 2] (fn [] (+ x y))) could easily be memoized for you
18:27	SegFaultAX\|work2	The best it would be able to do is condense calls in a single expression, eg (+ (purefn 2) (purefn 2)) (purefn 2) would only need to be calculated once for that expression.
18:27	Gnosis-	SegFaultAX\|work2: well, if the compiler was really smart, it could identify cases where a function could be memoized with at most X bytes of storage
18:27	technomancy	you'd need awesome type inference to pull that off
18:27	bosie	technomancy: by awesome you mean?
18:28	SegFaultAX\|work2	Gnosis-: The worst-case size for the memoization table would be equal to the domain U co-domain of the function.
18:28	SegFaultAX\|work2	Even haskell doesn't do this.
18:28	Gnosis-	I don't understand "domain U co-domain" but it sounds like it's not feasible :)
18:29	Gnosis-	oh wait, okay, I get it
18:29	SegFaultAX\|work2	Gnosis-: The union of all possible inputs and all possible outputs.
18:29	SegFaultAX\|work2	Gnosis-: Addition for example (which is obviously pure) would require an infinite amount of memory to memoize.
18:31	Gnosis-	that's assuming the set of input numbers is infinite
18:31	Gnosis-	but whatever, this doesn't sound practical for the near future
18:33	y3di	off by 1 errors are the bane of my existance
18:34	y3di	got get with the times and go functional
18:35	emezeske	y3di: There are only 3 hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation and naming things.
18:36	SegFaultAX\|work2	emezeske: As programmer jokes go, you can't beat Ed, man! !man ed. http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html
18:38	emezeske	SegFaultAX\|work2: lol @ emacs file size: 5.89824e37
18:38	technomancy	oooh, palindromic quines: http://www.rebol.org/art-display-article.r?article=j315vt
18:39	technomancy	oh, not quite. darn.
18:40	technomancy	http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Palindromic+Quine
18:42	dotnull	hello
18:56	eggsby	hey technomancy why does lein new app do clj 1.3.0 and lein new to 1.4.0
18:57	technomancy	eggsby: working on that literally right now =)
18:57	eggsby	:D
18:57	technomancy	forgot to bump to the latest version of the lein new plugin
18:58	Frozenlock	Is there a function to help discover elements in a webpage? (clojure-script) I'm quite new to this and would like to mess around in the repl to make myself confortable with the 'environment'.
18:58	SegFaultAX\|work2	What's the best resque-like library for Clojure?
18:59	SegFaultAX\|work2	Lightweight asynchronous job queue.
18:59	technomancy	die roboter!
18:59	technomancy	it's ... pretty good.
18:59	hyPiRion	technomancy: Was that German?
19:00	technomancy	hyPiRion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHEoMpMvz7A
19:00	technomancy	also https://github.com/technomancy/die-roboter
19:00	SegFaultAX\|work2	technomancy: Whoa, you enqueue clojure forms as the job?
19:00	technomancy	SegFaultAX\|work2: of course
19:01	SegFaultAX\|work2	technomancy: That's awesome! (Assuming it isn't abused, of course)
19:01	technomancy	well... the exception transport is questionable.
19:02	SegFaultAX\|work2	technomancy: Go on...
19:02	technomancy	I really shouldn't; there are minors present
19:03	daltenburg	]
19:03	daltenburg	\\\\\\\\\\\\\
19:03	hyPiRion	technomancy: We are liberal, go on.
19:03	technomancy	SegFaultAX\|work2: so if an exception occurs remotely, it has to propagate it back to the caller, right?
19:03	technomancy	soooo in the current implementation, it uses java.io.Serializable and base-64-encoding to generate a form that will eval in the caller to the exception value that occurred remotely.
19:04	amalloy	oh god, i remember that
19:04	technomancy	if I did it from scratch, I'd use java.io.Serializable as the wire format rather than pr-str
19:05	technomancy	and I may still switch to that once I get a chance to revisit the code
19:05	technomancy	ANYWAY it works but don't pass around exceptions with ginormous stack traces
19:05	technomancy	and stop looking at me like that
19:05	hyPiRion	... interesting.
19:10	eggsby	ibdknox: are you at the point where you are developing light table in light table yet
19:24	danielglauser	eggsby: Yes, they are developing Light Table in Light Table: http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/08/17/light-table-reaches-010/
19:25	danielglauser	"As a matter of fact, we're actually working on Light Table in Light Table now (oh the meta-ness)"
19:31	antifuchs	sooo smalltalk-y (:
19:31	cpinera	Hi all. I'm looking for a code-coverage tool for Clojure. So far I've found radagast not to be maintained anymore and figleaf to be a bit too… minimalistic. guzheng looks more like the basis for such a tool, but not something I could use in a continuous build environment right away. What are you folks using?
19:38	habitmelon	I'm looking to learn clojure, and would like to know if there is a good book or site that any of you would recommend. I'm already proficient in C#, Ruby, Python and JS, if that makes any difference
19:38	habitmelon	I'm familiar with Java, but haven't gone too deeply into it
19:39	ivan	I like Joy of Clojure and 4clojure
19:39	S11001001	habitmelon: watch rhickey's video introducing the language, aimed specifically at java developers. You know C# so you basically know Java
19:39	ivan	and every single rhickey video, of course
19:39	emezeske	habitmelon: I really like the book "The Joy of Clojure". I've heard that "Programming Clojure" is good too.
19:40	habitmelon	Sweet, I'll watch those videos first
19:41	habitmelon	Is the CLR version of Clojure still in active development?
19:41	S11001001	habitmelon: yes, and it is up to date
19:41	uvtc	habitmelon: I wrote up some brief notes that you might find useful: http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/clojure/brief-beginners-guide/ .
19:41	uvtc	habitmelon: though, those are more aimed at GNU/Linux users.
19:42	habitmelon	thanks utvc!
19:42	uvtc	habitmelon: y/w. :)
19:42	ivan	habitmelon: yes, but no lein, and a lot of Clojure libraries rely on Java libraries
19:42	habitmelon	I use GNU/Linux, as well as OS X and windows
19:42	habitmelon	Ah
20:01	symuyn	(sort-by keyfn coll) compares the values of (keyfn x) for all x from coll. Is there a similar convenience function, but for multiple keyfns?
20:02	S11001001	symuyn: juxt
20:02	S11001001	(sort-by (juxt first-key second-key ...) coll)
20:02	amalloy	symuyn: "multiple keyfns" doesn't make sense. just compose a keyfn (eg, with juxt) that does what you want
20:02	symuyn	For instance, (whatever [:x :y] [{:x 2, :y 3, :z 0} {:x 2, :y 1, :z 5}) would—hmm.
20:02	muhoo	more interesting trampoline-isms, preview8, on a beaglebone: https://www.refheap.com/paste/4452
20:03	symuyn	Huh, that…actually—oh, right.
20:03	symuyn	Vectors are comparable. Duh.
20:03	technomancy	muhoo: can you try master?
20:03	symuyn	Heh, thank you. ^_^
20:04	muhoo	technomancy: how do i make standalone jar from master?
20:04	technomancy	muhoo: you can try running bin/release
20:04	muhoo	ah, perfect, thanks, will try
20:05	antifuchs	ok, got ritz to no longer beep at me and display arg lists, too
20:06	antifuchs	now it can show the REPL, perform M-., and give me slime-autodoc arglists with a quicklisp slime (:
20:06	antifuchs	now I sleep
20:16	muhoo	technomancy: works, thanks
20:17	technomancy	muhoo: great
20:17	technomancy	muhoo: wait, bin/release works, or leiningen master works?
20:17	muhoo	both :-)
20:17	technomancy	sweet
20:17	technomancy	should have a preview9 release early next week
20:17	muhoo	lein trampoline repl :headless & works on a beagleboard, with master, to be specific
20:17	muhoo	awesome, thanks!
20:18	technomancy	muhoo: did you see this? https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/commit/65a574d09a926133cd60d7c5966a6dad1abe0c57#L1R95
20:18	technomancy	should be especially useful for embedded systems
20:18	muhoo	woo, fast trampoline
20:22	muhoo	technomancy: http://bace.s3.amazonaws.com/hs_err_pid869.log , maybe unrelated, but interesting
20:23	technomancy	what's the context?
20:24	muhoo	lein trampoline repl :headless (with .lein-fast-trampoline in proj root)
20:24	technomancy	muhoo: is it consistent?
20:24	muhoo	nope, does that about every 3rd invocation
20:25	muhoo	fast trampoline does appear to be faster tho, thanks
20:27	technomancy	muhoo: and it only happens on arm?
20:27	muhoo	correct, only on this device (device details are in that stack dump)
20:28	technomancy	looks like it's crashing in the reflector, which I'd have a hard time imagining is Leiningen's fault
20:29	muhoo	probably isn't, though there may be some -X jvm args i can do to mitigate
20:30	muhoo	technomancy: is it possible in nrepl.el to connect to two different projects on two different jvm's yet?
20:31	technomancy	muhoo: no, though someone said they were thinking about adding that
20:31	technomancy	everyone who's hacked on it so far uses a separate Emacs instance per project
20:35	muhoo	that might do, thanks
20:39	muhoo	is there a cleaner way to disconnect in nrepl.el than killing nrepl-connection buffer?
20:39	technomancy	not yet unfortunately
20:40	technomancy	there's an open issue for it
20:40	muhoo	well i could just bind that to a keyboard command, and call it done :-)
20:41	muhoo	(defun nrepl-disconnect (interactive) (kill-buffer "nrepl-connection"))
20:41	technomancy	submit a pull request =)
20:44	muhoo	someone did talk about being able to reconnect without losing history. i may have a simpler way to do that
20:44	muhoo	which is, kill nrepl-connection to disconnect, but then when connecting, if nrepl already exists, re-use that buffer instead of creating a new one.
20:45	muhoo	instead of nrepl<1>, nrepl<2>, etc
21:18	Cheiron	Hi, for a function the defines multiple arities. what is the best practice of documenting the function?
21:19	amalloy	most functions just use prose to describe what various calls do
21:22	Cheiron	so each arity describes what it does
21:22	uvtc	Cheiron: afaik, you can still only put in one docstring to cover all the cases.
21:22	Cheiron	uvtc: any example online?
21:23	Cheiron	speaking of arity, does it decrease performance? (lookup the correct version)
21:23	uvtc	Cheiron: the docstring comes after the function name. Just remember to backslash-escape any double-quote marks (and I suggest using Markdown formatting in your docstring).
21:24	Cheiron	after function name and before args definition vector?
21:24	amalloy	ugh markdown? markdown is great, but for docstrings? i do not recommend
21:24	uvtc	(defn foo "my docstring" ([x] (* x x)) ([x y] (+ x y)))
21:25	Cheiron	amalloy: do you prefer any other format? or just plain Clojure strings?
21:25	amalloy	text. just text, with words
21:26	amalloy	if you need bold emphasis faux-formatting to make you function's description clear at the repl, you probably aren't writing very well
21:26	uvtc	amalloy: Sure. If you want to emphasize some word in your docstring, may as well do so like this. I think marginalia assumes docstrings are markdown-formatted. And my understanding is that a future version of autodoc may assume docstrings are markdown and render them as html.
21:27	cjfrisz	Where is a dnolen when you need him?
21:27	Cheiron	Ceylon developers chose MD as the language when documenting code
21:28	uvtc	It's just natural plain text markup as far as I'm concerned. Looks good as plain text and also can be made prettier as html if you so desire.
21:37	hugod	crazy idea - allow defprotocol to re-use an existing interface so that protocols could be added to clojure for the Named, IFn, etc
21:43	_zach	hugod: I
21:44	_zach	hugod: I'm curious to know what your intended use-case would be
21:47	hugod	being able to extend support for those protocols onto deftypes, etc
21:51	hugod	you might then be able to extend an interface on to another class, which would be nice for interop scenarios
21:51	_zach	hugod: Okay, I understand. I misunderstood your original statement -- this would be nice. :)
21:59	uvtc	Is this naming convention fairly customary: A Clojure lib that wraps a Java lib named "foo" might likely be named "clj-foo". Whereas, a Clojure lib that provides its own implementation of a well-known lib "foo" written in some other language might likely be named "foo-clj".
21:59	uvtc	For example, clj-time (wraps Joda Time).
21:59	uvtc	markdown-clj (re-implements markdown in Clojure)
21:59	clojurebot	clojure is like life: you make trade-offs
22:00	uvtc	oh clojurebot, you are indeed very wise.
22:11	S11001001	uvtc: yes, but it's so boring that people keep doing that
22:11	S11001001	technomancy knows how to name libraries right
22:12	uvtc	S11001001: Ah, you prefer more exciting, more flavorful names.
22:12	uvtc	Well, I'm glad I was on the right track anyhow.
22:12	S11001001	I think that creativity is an important part of the spirit of programming, and that every aspect of a program should reflect that spirit
22:12	uvtc	I was going to post to the ML to see what others thought of this convention.
22:13	Cheiron	Hi, what would be an idiomatic way to make this interface work in Clojurian way? http://hector-client.github.com/hector//source/content/API/core/1.0-1/me/prettyprint/cassandra/service/ColumnSliceIterator.html
22:14	S11001001	Cheiron: lazy seq instead of stateful iterator
22:16	S11001001	I can appreciate the desire to get a library out there, not taking time to think of a name, but I like to see some beauty every once in a while
22:17	S11001001	Cheiron: you have functions you call that take query as args and produce such lazy seqs; the "columns" are vectors or maps containing name, value, whatever else
22:18	Cheiron	eye c
22:25	uvtc	S11001001: I posted my comment to the ML, thinking it might help solidify the standard, while at the same time encourage some fun project names too. :) Maybe it'll start a brief conversation.
22:26	uvtc	s/the standard/a standard/
22:30	eggsby	what do clojurescript people usually do for ajax? is everyone just using noir/fetch/etc ? or wrapped calls over the closure apis?
22:41	rbxbx	Is there a preferred replacement for clojure.string/replace in 1.4, or are people just rolling their own?
22:42	rbxbx	nevermind, it seems to still exist. Sigh. https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/string.clj#L238
22:45	Raynes	muhoo: You should go move refheap to compojure.