#clojure – 2012-06-11

2012-06-11

01:21	eck	hi all; i'm learning clojure, and i'm trying to understand why keywords exist in clojure (i.e. as opposed to just having strings)
01:22	eck	are they essentially just a more lightweight/optimized implementation of a string?
01:24	nDuff	eck: keywords provide identity guarantees, ie. they're always interned
01:25	nDuff	eck: ...also, they're a separate namespace, so you can be sure that ::eof will never be mistaken with "EOF" or "eof", if you're using them as sigils / markers / singletons
01:26	eck	ok, so compared to a string, a string doesn't have a separate namespace but you would also not have that problem, i.e. "foo" always equals "foo"
01:26	eck	is there a case where two strings that are equal in the ordinary sense of the word would not be considered equal in clojure?
01:27	nDuff	"foo" always _equals_ "foo", but it may not be _identical_ to "foo"
01:27	nDuff	Keywords are interned, so not just equality but identity are guaranteed.
01:27	eck	ok i think that makes sense
01:27	johnmn3	the windows-github tool is pretty slick
01:27	nDuff	...and I think we have a communication mismatch re: "not have that problem" re: namespaces
01:27	johnmn3	https://github.com/johnmn3/zljdb
01:27	nDuff	...namespaces are a feature, not a bug, if using them as singletons
01:28	eck	i might be missing the namespaces point, but so far i've seen a number of uses of keywords as if they're enums in other languages
01:29	nDuff	Yes. Now, enums in other languages typically exist inside of a class, or a package, or some other kind of namespace, right? That is, you don't want pipe.tee to equal golf.tee, even if they both use "tee"
01:29	eck	hmm, that's true
01:29	nDuff	same thing with ::tee in clojure; it's local to the namespace.
01:30	nDuff	Not a unique thing to Clojure, by the way -- keywords as first-class objects go a long way back
01:30	eck	ok that makes sense
01:30	eck	yeah i was reading about keywords in CL but i felt like i was kind of missing the point
01:32	eck	nDuff: thank you!
01:33	nDuff	np -- glad to be able to help
01:36	jblomo	gfredericks: looks like dnolen fixed the bug i'm seeing in 47f4a1e8
01:39	nDuff	(already have clojure.core/use and clojure.core/require rebound for other reasons...)
02:33	nDuff	Hrm.
02:50	amalloy	good luck with that, man. bet you a million dollars it's special-cased in at least one place
03:42	nDuff	woohoo!
03:42	nDuff	...and integrated a bit more cleanly with nREPL...
03:43	michaelr`	i wonder, does anyone here use Eclise with a dark colored theme?
03:43	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
03:44	michaelr`	clojurebot: this time it was appropriate, bot
03:44	clojurebot	learning a new runtime is much harder than learning a new language.
03:44	michaelr`	clojurebot: unless it's chinese
03:44	clojurebot	Huh?
03:45	michaelr`	clojurebot: Korean
03:45	clojurebot	I don't understand.
03:45	michaelr`	clojurebot: just use your imagination
03:45	clojurebot	excusez-moi
03:45	michaelr`	clojurebot: intuition
03:45	clojurebot	No entiendo
03:45	michaelr`	clojurebot: viva la france!!!11
03:45	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
03:49	jblomo	can i run lein-ring in single-threaded mode?
04:00	amalloy	jblomo: why would you want to? what would it even mean?
04:01	jblomo	amalloy: trying to debug an issue where i think multiple threads are writing to one file
04:02	amalloy	anyway, i don't think any single-threaded mode exists for lein-ring. jetty has a configurable threadpool size, though
04:03	jblomo	yea, trying max-threads now
04:18	ro_st	is it possible to get ido mode to fuzzy across directory boundaries? eg, if i have src/.clj, src/util.clj and i'm in a buffer from src, i'd like to have it match a filename from src/util/ when i type some characters from its name
04:19	Vinzent	ro_st, you could try the "find file in project" package
04:49	lypanov	Unable to resolve artifact: Couldn't find a version in [1.2.0] to match range [1.2.1,1.2.1],[1.3.0,1.3.0]
04:49	lypanov	org.clojure:clojure:jar:null
04:49	lypanov	anyone know what this means?
04:53	lypanov	help*
04:55	lypanov	all of clojars just broke or something?
04:55	zoldar	lypanov: are you by any chance using leiningen or a similar tool for project management ?
04:55	lypanov	yes.
04:55	lypanov	this is lein -> maven error
04:55	zoldar	is 1.2.0 a complete must ?
04:55	lypanov	i don't require it.
04:55	lypanov	gonna add exclusions to everything manually.
04:56	zoldar	then change 1.2.0 in project.clj to 1.2.1
04:56	lypanov	its not in project.clj.
04:56	lypanov	:dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure "1.3.0"]
04:56	zoldar	what are your dependencies?
04:56	zoldar	nothing more ?
04:57	lypanov	solved.
04:58	lypanov	zoldar: will be back in 20 mins or so.
04:58	lypanov	need to continue release.
04:58	lypanov	added :exclusions [org.clojure/clojure] to every dep.
04:58	zoldar	weird
04:58	lypanov	last week monday the same project.clj worked.
04:59	Vinzent	probably some of your deps depends on 1.2
05:11	ro_st	for some reason my slime repl isn't using the injections in my dev profile
05:12	IRC-Client-Test	yoo
05:12	Mad_Master	yo
06:02	Chiron_	Hi, would you please have a look at: http://pastie.org/4066477 I want to be able to code that in Clojure. Extending a class is easy, but how to define a new instance variable? and how to assign a new value to that instance var in a method like prepare?
06:10	zoldar	Chiron_: That's great that you are eager to explore Clojure, but I think that you are approaching it from the wrong angle. Don't try to write Java in Clojure. Clojure is entirely different language based around a functional programming paradigm. You would be better off with some comprehensive introduction in a form of a book like Clojure Programming http://www.clojurebook.com/
06:11	Chiron_	thanks, I'm trying to code Storm topology in Clojure: https://github.com/nathanmarz/storm-starter/blob/master/src/jvm/storm/starter/TransactionalGlobalCount.java
06:12	Chiron_	as you see, BatchCount extends BaseBatchBolt and defines a new instance variable
06:12	nDuff	ChiralSym: yes, but there's no reason for any of your code to follow that example.
06:12	nDuff	err
06:13	nDuff	Chiron_: ...after all, the parent class doesn't care how the child manages state
06:13	cemerick	Chiron_: Storm is largely written in Clojure, and has a very comprehensive Clojure api. Best to use that instead of backing into the Java examples.
06:13	Chiron_	Storm Clojure DSL works with non-transactional topologies, I'm about creating a transactional one
06:14	Chiron_	I'm checking this article: http://pragprog.com/magazines/2010-11/getting-clojure
06:24	zoldar	Chiron_: I'm not the one to judge, but to me, the article covers some pretty specific case of heavy java interop and from the outline author seems to essentially translate java to clojure in one-to-one fashion
06:30	Chiron_	I'm not stubborn :) but what is the clojure form that allows me to: KeyedCountUpdater extends BaseTransactionalBolt implements ICommitter
06:33	zoldar	Chiron_: this may be of some help to you
06:33	zoldar	http://cemerick.com/2011/07/05/flowchart-for-choosing-the-right-clojure-type-definition-form/
06:34	hoeck	Chiron_: if you do not care about the classname (e.g. because you do not need to pass the classname to some java method or config file), use proxy
06:37	nDuff	Hrm.
06:37	Chiron_	that helpful, thanks!
06:38	nDuff	=> (:symbol (first (clojure-frame-vars)))
06:38	nDuff	#'clojure.core/agent
06:38	nDuff	=> (type (:symbol (first (clojure-frame-vars))))
06:38	nDuff	clojure.lang.Var
06:38	nDuff	...shouldn't that be a clojure.lang.Symbol instance?
06:40	nDuff	(...or, more to the point -- how do I access the symbol in that map, rather than the var behind it?)
06:40	Chiron_	clojurebot: do you know what is your relation to lisp?
06:40	clojurebot	"if you never learnt Lisp, then you never learned to program" -- some rant on some blog somewhere
06:42	sayyestolife	Hello.
06:43	sayyestolife	Is there something special that happens when you do a (ref-set), because I have a neverending loop in which I call this, but it seems like it just hangs, ie the ref-set doesn't let go so to speak.
06:44	hoeck	Chiron_: http://pastie.org/4066628
06:47	Chiron_	hoeck: that is much more neater than gen-class ! thanks :beerchug:
06:50	ro_st	using lein-ring. is there a way to have 'lein2 ring server' somehow use the same process that's in my slime repl?
06:50	ro_st	so that i can push changes to it and see it update in the browser?
06:54	sayyestolife	Can someone explain to me why the application hangs at the "swap!" http://pastebin.com/NHygxkNW ?
06:56	hoeck	Chiron_: yes, but you have no way to get the generated classname, and you cannot call or overwrite protected methods
06:57	hoeck	Chiron_: sometimes its easier to just add a few lines of java to expose some functionality to clojure than to spend a day learning the weird gen-class syntax :)
06:57	Chiron_	tell me about it :D
06:58	hoeck	sayyestolife: swap! needs a function as its first arg
06:58	hoeck	sayyestolife: you should get an exception when running this
06:58	hoeck	,(swap! (atom 100) 200)
06:58	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
06:59	hoeck	sayyestolife: you probably want to use reset! instead
06:59	sayyestolife	Oh ok!
07:00	sayyestolife	Now it works. cheers!
07:01	hoeck	sayyestolife: to model a point and update directions atomically you could use sth. along: (swap! (atom {:x 100, :y 0}) update-in [:x] + 100)
07:06	ro_st	in a rest api, i'm currently passing user-id in as the first arg to all my internal service function calls. is there some way to access this state without having to arg it? some reading tells me dynamic bindings might be the answer, but i'd like to check with y'all
07:10	ro_st	eventually i want to use cemerick's friend (but my poor brain hasn't quite managed to grok it, yet) to handle where this user-id value comes from. for now i just want to set a const id somewhere that functions from different namespaces can get to it
07:11	hoeck	ro_st: yes, but they can cause problems when passing functions around and leaving the dynamic binding scope (e.g. pass off a fn to an agent, threadpool or queue)
07:12	ro_st	ok. as all these functions are used by a synchronous json api ring service, i'm pretty sure they'll stay in scope
07:12	ro_st	so is it as simple as doing (def user-id 25) in a .clj with (ns my-app.app) and then referring to it as (my-app.app/user-id) where-ever i need it?
07:14	hoeck	ro_st: the user id is constant all the time?
07:14	ro_st	for now, yes
07:15	ro_st	but eventually friend will somehow provide this value
07:15	hoeck	well then just use a plain def
07:16	hoeck	dynamic vars a introduced (depending on your clojure version) with (def ^:dynamic foo) and then set to a specific value with (binding [foo 'the-value] <code>)
07:16	ro_st	ah, so it'd start as null (supporting the guest-user case) and when friend determines that the user is properly authenticated, it'd bind that user's id in when wrapping the ring handler
07:16	ro_st	?
07:17	ro_st	using (binding)
07:17	hoeck	for example, if the user-id is request-specific, you'd do a <decode-and-validate user-id> (binding [user-id userid] <handle-the-request>)
07:18	hoeck	ro_st: right
07:18	ro_st	it is request specific
07:18	ro_st	ok, great. i'll forge on with a def for now. thanks hoeck
07:21	cshell	cemerick: Does friend's openid workflow work with the Google Identity ToolKit (GITkit?)
07:22	cemerick	cshell: don't know; never heard of it
07:23	cshell	cemerick: It's basically a way to get started with OpenID https://developers.google.com/identity-toolkit/
07:24	cshell	cemerick: I'm not schooled enough in either to figure out if they can work together or must be discrete
07:24	cemerick	oh, it's just an openid login picker; sure, that should work fine
07:24	cemerick	presumably it's no different than https://code.google.com/p/openid-selector/
07:25	cemerick	(insofar as you need to configure it to submit to the URI in your site that starts the openid workflow
07:25	cshell	cemerick: right, so when I hit gmail, it pops up a window where I login, then calls a callback address where I do a server side validation against their Identity API, then if I get a 200 I can assume we're safely logged in and tell the popup to close and go to a user's homepage - I think at this time is when I interact with the openid workflow (before I go back to the user's page)
07:26	cshell	oh yeah, that is cool too - I hadn't seen that one
07:32	cshell	cemerick: It looks like the openid workflow is a thin wrapper over the openid4java api - I'll read that api and see if I can figure it out :)
07:42	ro_st	arrrgggghh. how do i get slime-repl to always have pprint available?
07:43	ro_st	it's already in profiles dev injections.
07:43	ro_st	i specifically want to pprint. inspect doesn't give me what i want
08:05	borkdude	Connect Four in Clojure: http://afternoon-window-3802.herokuapp.com/
08:05	borkdude	(another game made by my students ;-))
08:18	ro_st	is there a when-let which supports multiple bindings?
08:19	ro_st	where binding N+1 only evaluates if binding N evalutes as non-falsey
08:19	ro_st	.. truthy (duh)
08:19	ro_st	right now i'm doing (when-let [N1] (when-let [N2] …))
08:20	ordnungswidrig	ro_st: you can realize this with a monad, IIRC.
08:20	ro_st	um :) for the sake of argument, let's pretend i have no idea what a monad is
08:23	ordnungswidrig	ro_st: better that is :)
08:23	ordnungswidrig	ro_st: maybe this helps http://inclojurewetrust.blogspot.de/2010/12/when-let-maybe.html
08:28	BeatsOnToast	Anyone know how you're supposed to do PUT requests using compojure? There don't seem to be any example on the github project or in the docs. I'd like to make a PUT request to "/create" and send some data along with it. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!
08:29	semperos	ordnungswidrig: nice find
08:30	ro_st	just what is a monad anyway?
08:30	gfredericks	a burrito
08:30	ordnungswidrig	BeatsOnToast: you want to process it with compojure?
08:30	ro_st	if you had to define it without requiring 3 years of CompSci under Sussman himself
08:30	ordnungswidrig	ro_set: it's turtles all the way down.,
08:30	gfredericks	~monad
08:30	clojurebot	monad is "yea, though I should walk in the valley of imperative code, I shall fear no evil, for your monad comforts me" - seen in #haskell
08:31	BeatsOnToast	ordnungswidrig: yes please
08:31	BeatsOnToast	ordnungswidrig: doing GET requests seems simple, but I'm not sure how to take in PUT requests with data
08:31	ro_st	ok, now that we've gotten through the haha-funny-you-don't-know-and-we-do-ery… what is it?
08:31	semperos	ro_st: I've found a combo of reading a bunch of the "better" tutorials on monads and learning haskell helped solidify my understanding of monads
08:32	hyPiRion	BeatsOnToast: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Compojure/Core_Libraries#Servlet_Bindings
08:32	gfredericks	ro_st: you don't have to know what monads are to make fun of them :)
08:32	semperos	for every 10 developers, you'll find about 20 definitions/metaphors for what a monad is
08:32	ro_st	is it like NaN in javascript, which doesn't equal itself?
08:32	ordnungswidrig	(defroutes my-app-routes (GET "/test" [] ...) (PUT "/put-test" [] ...))
08:32	ordnungswidrig	there you go
08:33	ro_st	is it a special form of function or macro?
08:34	ro_st	a higher level concept that has no direct representation in code?
08:34	gfredericks	I think it's kind of a design pattern...
08:34	ro_st	a trick pulled on people new to FP by people who make FP languages?
08:35	ro_st	gfredericks: that sounds right. i've seen monads referred to as "The IO monad". as if there's only one
08:35	semperos	ro_st: I've found these helpful, Clojure-specific monad tutorials: https://gist.github.com/2909874
08:35	ro_st	thanks semperos. i'll give them a read.
08:35	semperos	np; and no need to go sequentially, pick the explanation/style that makes sense to you
08:35	gfredericks	ro_st: how might you implement error handling if you were in a pure functional language that didn't have a mechanism for it?
08:35	vijaykiran	ro_st: this video is nice too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObR3qi4Guys
08:36	ro_st	Monads are design patterns for writing DSLs. boom.
08:36	kmicu	Does anyone know why "escape-html already refers to: #'hiccup.core/escape-html" in lein-cljsbuild sample project?
08:36	hyPiRion	gfredericks: By return values?
08:37	gfredericks	hyPiRion: I think you get to the meat of the problem when you try to make it short-circuit
08:37	ro_st	"A monad is nothing more than a way to compose functions… The idea behind a monad is to factor out the plumbing code so that its complexity is hidden, leaving only the composition of the functions visible."
08:37	ro_st	there we go
08:37	gfredericks	ro_st: like I said, a burrito
08:37	ro_st	yeah, that's totally clear now :-)
08:38	borkdude	ro_st when-let with multible bindings sort of: https://www.refheap.com/paste/2700
08:38	RickInGA	kmicu: you get that message when you "use" a namespace that has a function name that exists in another "use"d namepsace
08:39	borkdude	ro_st it is more like if-let though
08:39	borkdude	nested
08:40	hyPiRion	RickInGA: I think he asks why it is already defined in that namespace.
08:40	ro_st	nice borkdude, thanks
08:42	hyPiRion	borkdude: Have you seen the multiple if-let discussion on the mailing list?
08:42	kmicu	RickInGA: but this is a default project from https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/tree/0.2.1/example-projects/simple. Can anyone confirm that it does not work with lein 1.7.1 or lein2 p6?
08:48	ro_st	is there a way to scrub a slime repl clean of any defs (other than closing and starting a new one)?
08:49	borkdude	hyPiRion yes, I started that discussion :P
08:50	ro_st	midje circumspec lazytest and clojure.test. which one to use?
08:57	ro_st	looks like midje and lein2 aren't friends yet?
09:37	semperos	ro_st: I use midje with lein2
09:37	semperos	this project uses both clojure.test and midje, though nothing advanced: https://github.com/semperos/clj-webdriver
09:37	ro_st	i managed to get midje+lazytest working with lein2, thanks :-)
09:38	semperos	sweet
09:38	ro_st	is it idiomatic to have multiple arity functions have an implementations call into an implementation at another arity?
09:39	ro_st	eg, (get-resource uuid) and (get-resource uuid version)
09:39	ro_st	i want the first to find the latest version and then call the second
09:40	ro_st	so that i don't have to duplicate everything
09:40	semperos	ro_st: unless I'm misunderstanding, that sounds exactly like the idiom
09:40	semperos	code example?
09:42	ro_st	actually, i've realised that it won't work in this case. i need to (or (value) nil) the passed arg for 'version' from outside and do some hopscotch inside based on whether its nil or not
09:42	ro_st	but having modified the func to use multiple arities, i can see how it would work
09:49	hyPiRion	ro_st: It's more or less idiomatic.
09:53	ro_st	does midje have a fact grouping function, like describe from BDD?
09:56	semperos	there's `facts`, which is similar
09:56	ro_st	gah of course
09:57	ro_st	so much to learn!!!
10:03	jimduey	ro_st: I write the clojure.net blog. If you have any questions feel free to email me and I'll do the best to answer them.
10:03	ro_st	nice!
10:04	ro_st	i certainly will do. i was referring mostly to internalising tools. using repl, lein and emacs together to have a productive coding experience
10:06	kreig1	heylo
10:06	kreig1	so, is it me, or did clojure 1.2.0 disappear from clojars/maven repos?
10:06	kreig1	because suddenly I annot build my project
10:07	kreig1	Caused by: org.apache.maven.artifact.versioning.OverConstrainedVersionException: Couldn't find a version in [1.2.0] to match range [1.2.1,1.2.1],[1.3.0,1.3.0]
10:07	kreig1	org.clojure:clojure:jar:null
10:07	di-csuehs	is 1.2.0 in the range of 1.2.1?
10:08	kreig1	nope it is not
10:08	di-csuehs	do you specify that range?
10:08	kreig1	No I do not
10:08	di-csuehs	or is it inherited from something
10:08	di-csuehs	hmmm.
10:08	kreig1	it appears that noir and korma do so
10:09	kreig1	if I move to the betas on those two, it works (plenty of other problems tho)
10:09	kreig1	I build this project from scratch constantly
10:09	kreig1	and it worked as of friday
10:11	kreig1	So what I'm reading that message is as saying is, that the available versions are 1.2.0 ... and it doesn't match that constraint
10:11	ro_st	another user had this issue earlier today. search today's logs for 1.2.1
10:11	di-csuehs	kreig1: should I be finding any version of clojure in clojars?
10:12	kreig1	ro_st a quick link to where I can find the logs?
10:12	ro_st	they were able to fix by somehow telling a dependency to exclude clojure itself
10:12	ro_st	not sure of syntax or even if that makes any sense. just what i can remember :-)
10:12	kreig1	found it
10:13	kreig1	hmm
10:13	kreig1	this is pretty shitty
10:15	kreig1	solved, just for the record: added :exclusions [org.clojure/clojure] to the deps that Maven bitched about (noir and korma in this case)
10:16	S11001001	ro_st: because shallowest wins unless some library is being terrible. It's not so much maven's/lein's fault as a particular library
10:18	ro_st	someone who's aggregated on planet.clojure.in should probably push out a short post about the issue kreig1 just dealt with
10:19	kreig1	S11001001: what is curious to me, is how without hcanging my deps, or lein, this changed
10:20	kreig1	S11001001: that implies to me that some data lein acts on when resolving deps changed
10:20	kreig1	S11001001: I'm curious as to what that was
10:20	ro_st	well, lein seems to check deps whenever you change your project.clj
10:20	ro_st	that's what it feels like to me (without having read lein's source)
10:20	kreig1	ro_st: this project is built from scratch by integration builder, last time was friday, and it worked
10:21	kreig1	there were no commits in the meantime
10:21	technomancy	this is why no one should ever use version ranges
10:21	technomancy	they are terrible
10:21	ro_st	so perhaps when it did this, part of the checking is deps-of-deps, which started to fail
10:21	technomancy	clojurebot: repeatability?
10:21	clojurebot	repeatability is crucial for builds, see https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/wiki/Repeatability
10:21	kreig1	it's telling me I shouldbe using lein
10:21	technomancy	^ explanation
10:21	kreig1	I shouldn't be using lein
10:21	kreig1	or clojars, or any of that
10:21	ro_st	technomancy: so just explicit version numbers are ok, right?
10:22	technomancy	kreig1: this is all bullshit inherited from maven; nothing specific to clojure
10:22	technomancy	ro_st: right
10:22	ro_st	great
10:22	kreig1	technomancy: I not cutting on lein there, I understand the shitball it inherited
10:22	technomancy	one solution would be to write a plugin that walked your deps tree and warned you every time there was a version range
10:22	kreig1	technomancy: just saying that I prolly want to manage my deps by hand
10:22	technomancy	haha
10:22	kreig1	technomancy: heh, I know, until the next time I upgrade Ring 8^)
10:23	kreig1	actually, what I should be doing is using lein/maven to manage them, but not require a lein deps every build
10:24	kreig1	aka, to DL deps and put them in lib, commit them in the repo.
10:24	technomancy	I think it would be a lot easier to just not use anything that uses version ranges
10:24	ro_st	technomancy: when are you next doing a talk on lein? i watched the one where you covered 1.4 (i assume that was you). it'd rock if there was one that dealt with the way 2.0 does things
10:25	kreig1	technomancy: considering that the two most ciritical components of my app appaently use ranges... (noir and korma)
10:25	technomancy	kreig1: first thing to do is file bug reports with them if the latest versions still use ranges
10:26	kreig1	technomancy: when I upgraded to the latest, this issue went away, so either the ranges changed or there are no ranges. However, cannot jump to their latest betas the week of a rollout 8^)
10:26	technomancy	next is to figure out a way to prevent it from happening again; possibly via a range-detection plugin
10:26	kreig1	technomancy: it's all good tho, :exclude fixed it for now
10:26	technomancy	there could be other ranges in there still that aren't causing problems yet but will down the line
10:27	kreig1	technomancy: and it looks like neither of those uses ranges. Is it possible that something else used a range and these just happened to be the ones Maven complained about?
10:29	kreig1	technomancy: yah, the 1.2.X series of noir used a range
10:29	kreig1	as does korma
10:29	kreig1	technomancy: thanks for the tools and help
10:39	lypanov	kreig1: i had the same problem this morning.
10:39	lypanov	half way through a critical production deploy.
10:40	lypanov	utterly unimpressed.
10:40	tomoj	I notice clojurescript doesn't include the third_party bits of closure, e.g. goog.async.Deferred. is there a reason for this?
10:40	lypanov	tomoj: cus it sucks.
10:40	lypanov	tomoj: i have jars in clojars that add it.
10:40	kreig1	lypanov: my takeaway is to not put lein deps in my main deploy line
10:41	lypanov	kreig1: anyone running production without clean installs every time is crazy.
10:41	ivan	why not deploy uberjars?
10:41	kreig1	lypanov: a clean install doens't mean running lein deps at deploy time tho
10:42	kreig1	ivan: that is how we deploy. We build an uberjar.
10:42	borkdude	I suddenly had this problem: :dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure "1.3.0"] [noir "1.2.0"]] ;;=> Failed to collect dependencies for clojure.lang.LazySeq@ed61be4a -- why?
10:42	lypanov	guess the build does make more sense to happen on accetp/dev or so.
10:42	lypanov	but wouldn't have helped me this morning.
10:43	ro_st	is there a method like filter that returns true or false based on whether all the iterated function calls return true?
10:43	kreig1	borkdude: add :exclusions [org.clojure/clojure] to the noir dependency
10:43	borkdude	ro_st every?
10:43	kreig1	several of us ran into similiar problem today
10:43	ro_st	ah. i was trying all?
10:43	lypanov	kreig1: and yes, i also had no issues last week. all perfect and then the world blew up this morning.
10:44	borkdude	ro_st In C# it is called All<T>
10:44	kreig1	lypanov: yah, still don't know why it blew up this weekend
10:44	borkdude	kreig1 why?
10:44	lypanov	my assumption is something changed in clojars.
10:44	kreig1	borkdude: see logs
10:44	lypanov	or maven etc.
10:44	lypanov	ah you found out? /me reads without scan mode enabled
10:44	borkdude	my students had presentations this morning, suddenly things stopped working :(
10:45	kreig1	borkdude: in short, noir (1.2.X) used a ranged dependency, that suddenly broke over the weekend
10:45	lypanov	kreig1: and yes, my lesson also is that i shouldn't be using leiningen. the last thing i need is my env stopping a deploy. i have enough things to worry about already.
10:45	borkdude	kreig1 in clojars?
10:45	kreig1	borkdude: see the logs
10:45	lypanov	kreig1: everything from ibdknox uses them then.
10:46	lypanov	noir-cljs, korma, etc etc etc.
10:46	kreig1	borkdude: the exclusion stops maven from puking on the ranged dep
10:46	kreig1	borkdude: we still don't know why it broke over the weekend tho (we being other users who hit it)
10:47	kreig1	lypanov: resolve your deps as your pull them in, not all at deploy/build time
10:47	lypanov	kreig1: the poms themselves are ancient. not updated for a long time. so i'm assuming something in super-pom or something like that blew up. i don't get half of it though.
10:47	borkdude	kreig1 my students complained working with clojure (tools) is terribly buggy/beta… it wasn't a very nice experience in that regard...
10:47	borkdude	kreig1 I think I shouldn't have made them use beta eclipse plugins and leiningen2 ˆ_^
10:47	kreig1	borkdude: no, you shouldn't have 8)
10:47	kreig1	borkdude: never use eclipse 8)
10:48	lypanov	borkdude: aye. it stopped a critical deploy just a few weeks after of using clojure in the build process a RoR app. i have enough issues pushing people to learn but now this.
10:48	borkdude	next year I hope things will get more stable and less confusing...
10:48	lypanov	i've used it for for a while in personal projects and never had this.
10:48	kreig1	lypanov: you are over your bitch limit 8^)
10:48	lypanov	think its just a single crazy occasion.
10:48	lypanov	kreig1: agreed. bad morning.
10:48	kreig1	lypanov: hehe
10:48	borkdude	but things won't become more stable if no-one takes the risk of actually using it I guess ;)
10:48	ivan	I build everything from source but it took a long time to track everything down and patch things and write a build system
10:49	TimMc	borkdude: So, how did your guinea pigs^W^Wstudents do?
10:49	kreig1	lypanov: same here. 8^) Also, we totally replaced a RoR app with clojure
10:49	lypanov	technomancy: i'd personally say clojars should just refuse such jars if its that critical.
10:50	lypanov	poms* sorry.
10:50	borkdude	TimMc some made a nice app http://roulette-clojure.herokuapp.com/
10:50	kreig1	borkdude: where you teaching?
10:50	borkdude	TimMc but some had a very imperative approach still, OO-minded
10:50	lypanov	kreig1: we're just part way in. using clojurescript at first. next up replacing the core of the app with clj.
10:51	borkdude	TimMc I only had 5 lessons though, they were trained in OO almost three years now
10:51	TimMc	yeah
10:51	kreig1	lypanov: what is the clojurescript experience? We are considering using it
10:51	lypanov	kreig1: very good. though difficult at times to interop. but thats a given more or less.
10:51	borkdude	and I should definitely tell them that using def inside functions is not idiomatic...
10:51	kreig1	lypanov: my tentative plan is to build alot of our UI via JS on the client, using our existing JSON data api
10:52	lypanov	kreig1: its so small and well written that any time you have issues you can basically just go read the clojurescript source itself.
10:52	lypanov	compiler* that is
10:52	kreig1	lypanov: what are you finding to be real wins over just jquery/js?
10:52	borkdude	kreig1 University of Applied Sciences Utrecht (polytechnic is a better word for it)
10:52	lypanov	a dutchie!
10:53	borkdude	lypanov yeah, you too?
10:53	lypanov	kreig1: code compactness.
10:53	antares_	Monger 1.0 RC1 is released after 11 months of work: https://twitter.com/clojurewerkz/status/212193256459612161
10:53	lypanov	borkdude: english but in voorburg (near DH) for 12+ years.
10:53	antares_	also, http://clojuremongodb.info
10:54	borkdude	lypanov ok, been to any clojure meeting already?
10:54	lypanov	borkdude: once a long long time ago. was debating wednesday but probably won't due to match so hopefully next few weeks.
10:54	ro_st	antares_: been using it for the last couple weeks
10:54	ro_st	loving it
10:54	antares_	ro_st: thank you!
10:54	borkdude	lypanov yes, that sucks because I actually planned to go
10:55	ro_st	i love that i can read mongodb.org docs and translate directly into clojure without any fuss
10:55	ro_st	so kudos on that point
10:55	tomoj	nothing provides goog.async. goog.async.Deferred is provided in a file that sets goog.async.Deferred = function(...){...}. how do I refer to it in cljs?
10:55	lypanov	kreig1: oh and advanced mode by default. its a no brainer to produce working advanced mode. my generating js decreased from 1.4mb to 89kb.
10:55	lypanov	tomoj: i replied earlier.
10:55	lypanov	tomoj: in summary:
10:55	tomoj	(included third_party in libs so it's available now)
10:55	lypanov	ah no. its not.
10:55	lypanov	they messed it up.
10:56	technomancy	lypanov: clojars refusing jars that declare version ranges is definitely on the table
10:56	lypanov	i'll find my bug report. waiting for a reaction.
10:56	borkdude	kreig1 I think I read the logs now, but I can't find an explanation of why the exclusion is suddenly needed (maybe I'm missing smth)
10:56	technomancy	I'm for it
10:56	kreig1	borkdude: I don't know WHY it changed, just that the ranges are the cause. SOmething in the superpom or whatever
10:56	lypanov	borkdude: i'm still unsure of that also.
10:56	ro_st	antares_: i guess your focus is documentation at http://clojuremongodb.info/ now?
10:57	technomancy	probably a warning when you generate the jar too
10:57	antares_	ro_st: yeah, that was absolutely intentional. Otherwise there's one more thing to learn (at basically no benefit). Plus, this way we can easily support a lot of new features like the Aggregation Framework, without providing any new DSLs or huge API changes.
10:57	lypanov	tomoj: use: :exclusions [org.clojure/google-closure-library] on anything that does the actual include.
10:57	antares_	ro_st: they are mostly complete but yes, I want them to cover a lot more smaller topics (like using Ring session store with Noir) and as many examples as possible
10:57	lypanov	tomoj: then, [org.clojars.lypanov/google-closure-library-repackaged "0.0-1376" ] [org.clojars.lypanov/google-closure-library-third-party-repackaged "0.0-1376"]
10:57	llasram	I was wondering why few people seem to specify version ranges in Clojure projects... Isn't it good thing to use ranges for "library" projects?
10:58	ro_st	antares_: i used the mongo shell for about a day, and then i realised it's MUCH easier just to use clojure and monger: paredit, better code nav, colouring etc
10:58	tomoj	lypanov: to be clear I just have a local copy of clojurescript in ./checkouts, then I added :libs ["./checkouts/clojurescript/closure/library/third_party/closure"] to the cljs compiler opts
10:58	lypanov	tomoj: i use noir-cljs so don't have any experience with the leon cljs build thingy.
10:58	ro_st	mongo shell is horrid in comparison
10:58	tomoj	ah
10:58	lypanov	tomoj: aha. that doesn't work.
10:58	ro_st	antares_: examples++.
10:58	lypanov	the deps.js has to be adjusted.
10:58	lypanov	its all a big mess. but the above two lines work.
10:59	lypanov	dunno why the uploaded jars are broken. the fix is easy.
10:59	tomoj	thanks, I'll try that
10:59	lypanov	only 1376 btw, hope that works for you.
10:59	lypanov	if not.. here are instructions for building the jar yourself: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-276
11:00	tomoj	thanks
11:01	tomoj	I think I still don't know how to refer to Deferred, even if that works - cljs wants to treat it as a namespace but it's also function
11:01	llasram	technomancy: How does maven (?) resolve dependencies when different libraries specify multiple different versions of a shared dependency?
11:01	technomancy	llasram: normally it just picks the newer one I believe
11:01	tomoj	or maybe (:use [goog.async :only [Deferred]]) will work if I use the repackaged stuff..
11:01	technomancy	possibly giving precedence to those "higher" in the tree
11:01	technomancy	if there are non-overlapping ranges though it just gives up, which is craaaazy
11:03	llasram	technomancy: I see. That makes sense. And hmm -- is giving up if there isn't a common usable dependency not the right behavior?
11:05	tomoj	(nope)
11:07	llasram	I guess if you can't override it any way... Hmm. Ruby and Python libraries seem to mostly specify dependency ranges, and AFAICT it works fine for their package ecosystems
11:07	kreig1	technomancy: Apparently the mavent metadata file says 1.2.0 is the latest org.clojure/clojure release
11:08	ro_st	how would i write a checker for midje that trues when count > 0?
11:08	kreig1	AHHH
11:08	kreig1	ok
11:08	kreig1	found the problem
11:09	kreig1	lypanov: ok, so apparently the maven report right now says 1.2.0 is the latest release
11:09	kreig1	lypanov: in a working version that I did a lein deps in a few days ago, the metadata file for the maven central repo lists all the properl clojure releases
11:09	ro_st	nm, got it!
11:10	kreig1	lypanov: so it appears that maven rolled back data or something
11:12	lypanov	tomoj: i don't use use currently. only e.g. [goog.ui.PopupDatePicker :as popupdp]
11:12	lypanov	tomoj: learning clojure at same time as i use it in a production project :P
11:13	tomoj	lypanov: and then how do you use the PopupDatePicker constructor?
11:13	lypanov	90 popup (goog.ui.MyPopupDatePicker. picker)
11:14	kreig1	technomancy: My maven-metadata-central.xml says: <lastUpdated>20100914121821</lastUpdated>
11:14	tomoj	ah of course, just fully qualified..
11:15	tomoj	thanks
11:15	kreig1	technomancy: tho that file was DLed today. It looks like the central maven repo is handing out bad data
11:15	ro_st	bad maven!
11:15	ro_st	i wonder if they know
11:16	lypanov	summary: lets get clojure on clojars not us off clojars.
11:16	ro_st	or have they all gone into cryo-stasis already?
11:16	lypanov	like mvn ever cared about the users. its all about the ideals man!
11:17	lypanov	technomancy: btw read your reply to headius a while back on twitter where he says lion is making him rethink.
11:17	lypanov	technomancy: ditto for me. i'm the biggest freaking apple fanboy ever created. but i'm sick of it now. using fedora lately instead.
11:18	lypanov	lion is a complete f-up
11:19	mwillhite	hey all - I'm getting a weird error when I try any lein command: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.RuntimeException: org.sonatype.aether.resolution.DependencyResolutionException: Failed to collect dependencies for clojure.lang.LazySeq@845c5968
11:19	mwillhite	any ideas?
11:19	lypanov	:/
11:19	mwillhite	I haven't touched the code since friday…
11:19	mwillhite	remote repo down?
11:19	lypanov	how many people now? 5?
11:19	lypanov	mwillhite: add :exclusions [org.clojure/clojure] to every dep other than your clojure sep in your project.clj
11:20	lypanov	dep*
11:20	mwillhite	thanks
11:20	mwillhite	what happened?
11:20	TimMc	Welp, time to put my ~/.m2/repository up as a torrent...
11:20	tomoj	lypanov: fwiw not using the jars, using a checkout of clojurescript, and just adding the third_party to libs seems to work fine
11:20	lypanov	tomoj: w00t!
11:21	ro_st	i'm loving the lazy nature of clojure to prevent unnecessary io work.
11:21	ro_st	in this case, hitting mongo db up for more data
11:22	lypanov	mwillhite: we're not quite sure yet alas.
11:22	lypanov	ah, kreig1 has an idea
11:24	tomoj	..except that closure assumes goog.global has e.g. setTimeout, which isn't true for a node.js module :(
11:24	mwillhite	okay thanks :)
11:25	lypanov	tomoj: https://github.com/zzdhidden/node-jquery-deferred
11:25	TimMc	I rm -r'd my m2 repo and did lein deps in a clean project, and everything seemed to work...
11:25	lypanov	i'm using jquery deferred rather than the goog one, maybe the above is a good idea.
11:26	lypanov	tomoj: if you're running with advanced try the externs/jquery.js file from github ibdknox/jayq
11:26	kreig1	ok, send email to clojure list explaining the situation
11:26	kreig1	sent...
11:27	kreig1	TImMc: interesting...
11:27	ivan	http://twistedmatrix.com/pipermail/twisted-python/2011-June/024149.html beware the jQuery Deferred
11:27	TimMc	kreig1: Do you have a project.clj testcase I could try?
11:27	tomoj	lypanov: looks like google's Deferred has features jquery's doesn't that I want, and I realized s/goog.global = this/goog.global = global/ fixes the problem. thanks though
11:27	ivan	the Closure implementation is pretty sane, except for handling of undefined retvalues
11:27	lypanov	tomoj what features out of interest?
11:28	lypanov	ah
11:28	tomoj	branch in particular, not sure what else is different
11:28	kreig1	TimMc: I nuked my .m2, removed my exclusions, and it failed again (as I would expect)
11:28	lypanov	ivan's ref summarized :)
11:28	technomancy	llasram: the problem is maven conflates ranges and "hard requirements"
11:28	kreig1	basically, right now 1.2.1 is not available
11:28	kreig1	technomancy: that's the symptom
11:28	kreig1	technomancy: the cause is that maven central repo took 1.2.1 out of play
11:28	technomancy	llasram: you should be able to declare a soft range
11:29	technomancy	kreig1: whoa seriously?
11:29	technomancy	central's policies are usually super-conservative
11:29	lypanov	6 people up to now with broken projects.
11:29	kreig1	technomancy: see my email to the list (just sent, might need moderation approval)
11:29	kreig1	technomancy: see also my comments above:
11:29	ro_st	lypanov: that know about it / know to come ask on here
11:29	technomancy	kreig1: that's a much worse problem, but it doesn't mean the inherent brokenness of version ranges isn't a problem
11:29	lypanov	the .xml changed on 5th. fits with mine.
11:29	kreig1	technomancy: maven central repo is serving up maven-metadata-central.xml for org.clojure/clojure from like 2010
11:30	lypanov	ro_st: good point.
11:30	kreig1	technomancy: agreed
11:30	TimMc	kreig1: http://repo1.maven.org/maven2 worksforme
11:30	TimMc	with clojure 1.2.1
11:30	kreig1	hmm
11:30	kreig1	central (http://repo1.maven.org/maven2)
11:30	kreig1	that's what I am hitting
11:30	lypanov	ditto.
11:30	kreig1	could it by a mirroring issue?
11:30	technomancy	ro_st: I don't really have any plans to speak on an overview of Leiningen; my hope is the documentation is clear enough to cover that.
11:31	technomancy	I do want to speak on a more general build topic at the next conj
11:32	ro_st	technomancy: ok cool. re docs, one thing that i've been unsure of is what's for lein1 and what's for lein2. ditto what clojure-swank uses from the lein1 and/or lein2 configuration settings
11:32	ro_st	i'm still battling to get my slime repl to respect injections, for example
11:32	kreig1	TimMc: the maven central server appears to be right, at least when going thru web interface
11:32	lypanov	kreig1: aye, i had no problems with the browser this morning.
11:32	technomancy	injections is 2.x only, but it should apply across the board in all tasks
11:33	technomancy	ro_st: definitely interested in hearing ways the docs could be improved though
11:33	ro_st	i have it in a profiles>dev map as well as up in the root map and in both cases clojure-jack-in is ignoring em
11:33	technomancy	hm; like not even printlns are showing up?
11:34	ro_st	https://www.refheap.com/paste/3087
11:35	ro_st	so i want pprint everywhere, but this doesn't seem to do it. i also had (use 'ring.util.serve) in, and that did nothing either
11:35	technomancy	huh; bummer. can you open an issue?
11:35	technomancy	"use" isn't going to do any good
11:36	technomancy	because it's not going to follow you around when you change namespaces
11:36	ro_st	oh, right. so it has to be require'd?
11:37	technomancy	well I mean use will be equivalent to require in this case
11:37	technomancy	gotta take off; will follow up on the issue tracker
11:37	ro_st	cool. shot
11:37	kreig1	TimmC: can you show me your m2/repository/org/clojure/clojure/maven-metadata-central.xml ?
11:40	TimMc	kreig1: No such file.
11:41	TimMc	ls -R on .m2 only shows jars, poms, and checksums.
11:41	TimMc	lein 1.6.2 if it matters
11:41	pepijndevos_	I copied a java source file from the internet into my lein directory and added the java source path. It compiles, but cab't find the constructor
11:41	ivan	http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/pub/mirrors/maven2/org/clojure/clojure/maven-metadata.xml
11:42	pepijndevos_	source file: http://google-refine.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/main/src/com/google/refine/clustering/binning/Metaphone3.java
11:42	TimMc	pepijndevos_: Missing from the classpath at runtime, then?
11:42	kreig1	I don't understand
11:42	pepijndevos_	TimMc, but it does find the class
11:42	kreig1	TImMc: I mean ~/.m2 ...
11:43	pepijndevos_	TimMc, Just not the constructor, which is weird
11:43	lypanov	kreig1: i have <lastUpdated>20100914121821</lastUpdated>
11:44	TimMc	kreig1: I know. It's not there.
11:44	hiredman	pepijndevos_: none of those constructors are public
11:45	pepijndevos_	hiredman, oh, shoot. erm, ok, so a static method I guess?
11:45	kreig1	TImMC: woah
11:45	kreig1	TimMc: do you have any metadata files there?
11:46	kreig1	lypanov: I edited the metadata file to say 1.2.1 and everything works
11:46	pepijndevos_	hiredman, ok, thanks, but now I have no idea how to get an instance of this thing
11:46	mwillhite	even after I exclude clojure from each of my deps, I still have the same error message
11:47	TimMc	kreig1: https://www.refheap.com/paste/3088
11:48	lypanov	mwillhite: can you try to get more of an error?
11:48	lypanov	what you pasted didn't include a stacktrace.
11:48	kreig1	mwillhite: do you explicitely depend on clojure 1.2.1?
11:49	mwillhite	oh weird, updating metadata file (like kreigl) to 1.3.0 it seems to be working…
11:49	mwillhite	no I have no dependencies on 1.2.1
11:49	mwillhite	its all 1.3.0
11:49	TimMc	pepijndevos_: So weird! The only instances of the keyword "public" are the class and main().
11:49	kreig1	argh
11:49	mwillhite	my metadata file was at 1.2.0
11:49	pepijndevos_	TimMc, ah, there is a helper class that has a method to construct it
11:50	pepijndevos_	downloading some other classes now
11:50	mwillhite	lypanov: the error was: Caused by: org.sonatype.aether.resolution.VersionRangeResolutionException: No versions available for org.clojure:clojure:jar:[1.2.1,1.3.0] within specified range
11:51	kreig1	mwillhite: when lein version?
11:52	mwillhite	kreig1: 2.0.0-SNAPSHOT
11:52	kreig1	argh
11:53	kreig1	where do those metadata files come from?
11:53	kreig1	and what does TimMc not have any?
11:53	kreig1	s/what/why
11:54	lypanov	fun.
11:54	ivan	MITM yourself with the correct metadata from ibiblio
11:54	kreig1	http://repo.maven.apache.org/maven2/org/clojure/clojure/maven-metadata.xml
11:54	ivan	er I mean set ibiblio as your repo?
11:54	kreig1	that file is the culprit!
11:54	kreig1	ivan: how? I am not a lein power user 8)
11:54	ivan	heck if I know
11:55	kreig1	ivan: adde the repo, testing
11:56	lypanov	fun that http://build.clojure.org/job/clojure/386/console built on friday for first time in a month or so.
11:57	kreig1	BEWM!
11:58	kreig1	that seems to have fixed it
11:58	kreig1	added this to my project.clj:
11:59	kreig1	:repositories {"ibiblio" "http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/pub/mirrors/maven2/" }
11:59	kreig1	since for NOW at least, it has the right data
11:59	kreig1	but as soon as the mirror updates, it will fuck us all again
12:00	ivan	mirror the mirror before it's too late
12:00	lypanov	better than everything is on clojars and things work reliably than this mess up.
12:00	lypanov	that*
12:02	ivan	I have a feeling ibiblio will get clobbered any minute now given what looks like a weekly mirror
12:02	ivan	maybe someone should tell them to not mirror
12:04	ivan	(is this just an org/clojure thing?)
12:05	kreig1	that's the only metadata file that looks out of date at least
12:05	ivan	oh
12:08	rplevy	so then what is causing this "org.sonatype.aether.resolution.VersionRangeResolutionException" I am having the same problem this morning
12:08	pandeiro	anyone have a go-to java lib for transforming scanned documents into text via OCR?
12:09	kreig1	rplevy: bad metadata from maven
12:09	kreig1	rplevy for the org.clojure/clojure project
12:09	rplevy	was something bad pushed?
12:09	kreig1	rplevy: no idea
12:09	kreig1	since fucking clojure list is moded, my email is not out yet
12:09	kreig1	this is ridiculous
12:09	lypanov	i hate that also. 4+ emails i've sent to that and nothing posted. no longer using.
12:10	lypanov	ahhh great and my wife just left the house with the wrong debit card while i was debating grabbing sushi.
12:10	kreig1	rplevy: depends, I don't know if metadta is generated or uploaded
12:11	rplevy	deleting .m2...
12:11	kreig1	that won't help
12:11	kreig1	add ibilbio mirror to your project.clj (for now)
12:11	rplevy	you're right it didn't
12:11	kreig1	argh
12:11	rplevy	ok I will do that, thanks
12:11	kreig1	man, it's a fucking monday with vengeance
12:13	langmartin	I'm having some trouble loading resources from an uberjar, where loading them from the repl works. In the uberjar, the contextClassLoader for the current thread is a clojure DynamicClassLoader and at the repl it's an AppClassLoader. Is that significant? The uberjar does contain the resource files.
12:13	TimMc	langmartin: Have you confirmed the resources are in there?
12:13	TimMc	Myabe it was built wrong.
12:14	langmartin	TimMc: yeah, if I just open the file in emacs (which unzips it) they're there
12:15	langmartin	the loading class and the resources are all in the root of the jar, if that's an issue... some of the google results seemed to think names without segments wouldn't load correctly, but most of those people seemed confused
12:15	rplevy	kreig1: got the URL handy? I'm still looking for it...
12:15	rplevy	to add in repos in lein
12:16	kreig1	Fuck
12:16	kreig1	I do
12:16	kreig1	but now I can't paste into my IM client
12:16	kreig1	MONDAY! DAMN YOU!
12:16	rplevy	lol
12:16	kreig1	asd http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/pub/mirrors/maven2/
12:16	technomancy	sonatype has it too
12:17	rplevy	kreig1: thanks!
12:17	TimMc	langmartin: Yes, that could be trouble.
12:17	technomancy	https://oss.sonatype.org/content/groups/public/
12:17	rplevy	isn't it sonatype that is having problems today?
12:17	technomancy	it has 1.2.1 at least
12:18	hiredman	langmartin: most likely you are loading the resource via something like (clojure.java.io/resouce "resources/foo") which works from the lein repl because "." is on the classpath too, but you should just be doing (clojure.java.io/resource "foo") because there is no resources/ in the ubarjar
12:18	technomancy	oh, I didn't check the metadata file, just the presence of the jar
12:18	technomancy	this lists 1.2.1 though: https://oss.sonatype.org/content/groups/public/org/clojure/clojure/maven-metadata.xml
12:19	kreig1	testing witht aht repo
12:19	kreig1	ibilbio is bitching at me
12:19	langmartin	hiredman: I'm not, but that's a good note. from the repl, (io/resource "sql") returns the url for project/resources/sql
12:19	langmartin	nil in the uberjar
12:20	technomancy	kreig1: which noir version do you need to specify to repro?
12:20	hiredman	langmartin: seems unlikely
12:20	hiredman	is "sql" a directory?
12:21	hiredman	(cause that is not going to work)
12:21	langmartin	hiredman: it is a directory
12:21	hiredman	well there you go, you can't do that
12:21	langmartin	io/as-file coerces it to a list from the repl....
12:22	hiredman	"you can't do that"
12:22	langmartin	hiredman: can't do what?
12:22	langmartin	open a directory and list the files in it?
12:22	kreig1	techno: 1.2.2
12:22	kreig1	technomancy: 1.2.2
12:23	technomancy	kreig1: cool; was able to repro and confirm that adding sonatype fixes it
12:23	kreig1	technomancy: I added sonatype as a repo and it works
12:23	kreig1	technomancy: yup, confirmed here too
12:23	technomancy	kreig1: since you're stuck in moderation purgatory I'll post to the clojure list
12:23	kreig1	technomancy: que ridiculo
12:24	technomancy	dinc
12:24	technomancy	this first manifested over the weekend?
12:25	kreig1	yah
12:25	kreig1	one of my coworkers said he built last night fine, and it broke this morning
12:25	kreig1	but not a totally reliable report. I know that we build friday afternoon tho
12:25	kreig1	built...
12:25	technomancy	yeah, hard to say unless you have a fresh m2
12:25	ibdknox	dnolen: Finally got a chance to talk to Bret Victor this weekend :) Avi Bryant too!
12:26	technomancy	not 100% sure why noir's version ranges are blowing up here but at least we have a fix
12:26	ibdknox	I went around singing Clojure/CLJS praise everywhere I could
12:27	kreig1	technomancy: yah, the amn file mod time on the maven repo itself says Sept 2010
12:27	kreig1	technomancy: bad restore?
12:27	foxdonut	ibdknox: do tell!
12:27	ibdknox	I was at FOOcamp
12:27	kreig1	in chicago?
12:27	kreig1	ah
12:27	kreig1	should have gone
12:28	ibdknox	very neat opportunity and a bit of a surreal experience
12:28	ibdknox	no
12:28	technomancy	kreig1: well while noir's range declaration is annoying, it still should be able to resolve something within the range it requires
12:28	ibdknox	kreig1: foo is at O'Reilly's headquarters
12:28	ibdknox	in sebastopol
12:28	kreig1	aahh, misunderstood
12:28	dnolen	ibdknox: haha, very cool!
12:29	ibdknox	Norvig knew who I was :) Another life goal down lol
12:29	ibdknox	But yeah, I think I got a fair number of "important" people interested in Clojure :)
12:29	foxdonut	awesome!
12:29	ibdknox	not sure if that will result in anything, but who knows
12:30	foxdonut	did Bret Victor have any idea about LT?
12:31	ibdknox	yeah, unfortunately didn't get to talk too much about it specifically. But I convinced him to have dinner with me, so we should get to talk then
12:31	langmartin	ok, resources can only refer to files, not directories, so I need to keep an index file rather than listing files in the directory. Seems like it might be handy if io/resources enforced this behavior from the repl too, but all is well. thanks
12:32	muhoo	what's the trick in lein repl to get the full stacktrace instead of the one-line stummary?
12:32	muhoo	heh, summary?
12:32	TimMc	muhoo: (pst)
12:33	muhoo	TimMc: thx
12:33	foxdonut	ibdknox: very cool.
12:37	muhoo	i seem to have acquired a compojure vs. ring incompatibility of some kind: https://www.refheap.com/paste/3090
12:38	foxdonut	(england just scored and lead france 1-0)
12:41	technomancy	kreig1: https://clojars.org/org.clojure/clojure
12:44	technomancy	not that it helps at this point, but one of the reasons for running a private nexus server is to insulate you from these kind of screwups.
12:45	kreig1	technomancy: thanks
12:46	muhoo	oh that's bizarre. i have ring 1.1.0, ring-core 1.0.2, ring-devel-1.1.0, ring-servlet-1.1.0. one of these things is not like the other :-/
12:47	kreig1	so....
12:47	kreig1	trying to decide just how much to leap into the "javascript" application world
12:48	kreig1	I have historically been more of a generate html and decorate with javascript person
12:48	kreig1	but, am contemplating mving to a mostly JS app, with lots of client side rendering, and a JSON api on the backend
12:48	kreig1	obviously clojurescript is on the table
12:49	dnolen_	ibdknox: haha, that's awesome that you got meet Norvig
12:49	dnolen_	ibdknox: so imagine you guys will starting cranking on LT in earnest soon.
12:49	ibdknox	dnolen_: playground out in the next two weeks
12:50	ibdknox	the goal is something legitimately useful for Clojure by the end of YC
12:51	dnolen_	ibdknox: sweet!
12:54	lypanov	dnolen_: hey if you get time could you take a look at http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-276 / poke someone about it?
12:54	gfredericks	I add clojure.data.json as a dep, and then `lein deps` complains that it can't find clojure/data/json.clj on the classpath??
12:54	lazybot	gfredericks: What are you, crazy? Of course not!
12:54	lypanov	ibdknox: btw i'm really confused by my level, does "pre-beta" mean may or oct?
12:54	pbostrom_	kreig1: take the leap, Clojurescript is great
12:55	lypanov	gfredericks: org.clojure/data.json
12:55	ibdknox	lypanov: here's the estimated break down http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ibdknox/light-table/posts/210336
12:55	gfredericks	lypanov: yeah I got that part right
12:56	lypanov	ibdknox: sweet. just the kickstarter end dates don't correspond so got really confused
12:56	ibdknox	yeah KS didn't let me change them :(
12:56	dnolen_	lypanov: not sure what you want me to do, I don't have the bandwidth to try it out. I suggest bringing it up on the ML getting some else to confirm and submitting a patch.
12:57	lypanov	dnolen_: none of my posts to ml are allowed through.
12:57	lypanov	so i've stopped even bothering lately.
12:57	lypanov	will try to email stuart.
12:58	dnolen_	lypanov: yes that would be the thing to do.
12:58	dnolen_	lypanov: if it's a real issue and there's a patch I will happily apply it.
12:58	pbostrom_	ibdknox: just curious since you changed up the levels during the campaign, but does the $80 level include early beta access?
12:59	gfredericks	wasn't there someone who gave a presentation using clojurescript back when it first came out? (i.e. instead of pdf or powerpoint or whatever)
12:59	lypanov	gfredericks: about using, or using?
13:00	lypanov	as in, created with, or about? if so, iirc hickey gave an awesome one.
13:01	lypanov	dnolen_: good point. i'll figure out if i can attach a patch to the issue. now its just instructions.
13:02	dnolen_	lypanov: thx, have you submitted your CA?
13:02	lypanov	dnolen_: nope, will look into doing so.
13:02	lypanov	https://github.com/stuartsierra/cljs-formatter sweeeeeet
13:03	edw	Hey guys, I'm getting "Failed to collect dependencies for clojure.lang.LazySeq@..." errors when running lein. Any ideas WTF this means?
13:03	gfredericks	lypanov: where the presentation itself was made with cljs
13:03	technomancy	edw: probably this issue? http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/776d9acff0785f15
13:03	gfredericks	lypanov: the slides
13:03	technomancy	screw-up at maven central
13:04	edw	Ah. Thank you. I am breathing into a paperbag here...
13:04	technomancy	edw: is the clojars fix not working for you?
13:05	muhoo	that should be added to /topic
13:05	kmicu	dnolen: "Loading the file directly in your browser will not work. The Closure transport we use does not support that anymore." Whether it is still true in last cljs version?
13:05	technomancy	muhoo: now that it's on clojars it shouldn't be causing any more trouble
13:05	edw	I'm trying it now.
13:05	dnolen_	kmicu: it's true moving forward yes.
13:05	technomancy	edw: you shouldn't have to do anything special to bring in the clojars fix though
13:06	technomancy	unless you've left out clojars entirely
13:06	edw	What clojars? I'm trying the sonatype thing right now.
13:06	technomancy	read the second message =)
13:06	edw	Ah.
13:06	llasram	edw: Is it possible you just have something funky in your :dependencies ? That error looks vaguely like it's trying to resolve deps for a LazySeq object
13:06	edw	Again, (panic-mode 1)
13:07	technomancy	llasram: that's leiningen's fault; the error message is just crappy
13:07	muhoo	technomancy: nice shoestring catch! thanks for that.
13:07	gfredericks	technomancy: does src/user.clj mean something special to lein?
13:07	edw	I just rebuilt emacs from the git repo, which confused me about the source of the errors...
13:07	technomancy	gfredericks: no, that's actually all Clojure
13:07	llasram	technomancy: Ah, ok. Error messages are hard...
13:07	gfredericks	oh wow I think I remember hearing that like a year ago
13:08	gfredericks	okay so clojure automatically picks up any "user.clj" on the classpath?
13:08	technomancy	gfredericks: it's useful for crazy hacks like clj-nstools
13:08	muhoo	technomancy: does lein2 have a different algorithm for resolving dependencies than lein 1.7.1?
13:09	technomancy	muhoo: it uses aether rather than maven-ant-tasks. I don't know if there are intentional differences, but it's a different implementation.
13:10	muhoo	and the order in which the :dependencies are declared affects how the resolution is done, corret?
13:10	muhoo	correct?
13:11	technomancy	I think so
13:12	technomancy	edw: which version of leiningen do you have?
13:13	edw	preview6
13:13	edw	2.0
13:13	technomancy	huh
13:13	technomancy	weird
13:13	edw	os x 10.7.blah
13:13	edw	using clojure 1.4
13:13	technomancy	which task were you invoking that emitted that output?
13:13	edw	deps
13:14	technomancy	weird
13:14	duck1123	I saw that same message the other day, but I can't remember what caused it or how I fixed it
13:14	edw	(Everything's under control now with the fix you pointed me to. Thank you.)
13:14	duck1123	edw: are you using clj-webdriver?
13:14	technomancy	edw: you shouldn't have to add sonatype now actually
13:15	edw	duck1123: No.
13:15	edw	technomancy: What, if anything shoul I have to do now, and when did the situation change?
13:16	technomancy	edw: after I posted the first message I deployed a fix to clojars that should work transparently with no changes
13:16	technomancy	edw: was that fix not working for you?
13:18	duck1123	Ok, I was getting that when I specified [clj-webdriver "0.6.0-alpha8"] as a dev dependency. Failed on finding org.bouncycastle:bcprov-jdk15on:pom:1.47
13:18	edw	Nothing worked until I put that in like ten minutes ago and all's been well since.
13:19	edw	My Heroku instances are working restarting again even though I didn't push out that project.clj change though.
13:20	technomancy	they should have a cached m2 repo
13:20	edw	Ah.
13:20	edw	A random question: anyone know if you can get OS X's Terminal.app to do click-to-position-cursor in emacs?
13:21	muhoo	cemerick: regarding :unauthorized-uri, should it not overwrite that until after auth succeeds/fails?
13:23	cemerick	muhoo: What do you mean "overwrite"?
13:23	muhoo	cemerick: use case being where i have a whole site wrapped. i hit /foo, that gets added to :unauthorized-uri, then the browser hits /css/reset.css, and now /css/reset.css replaces :unauthorized-uri. when the redirect happens, after auth, it Location:'s the user to /css/reset.css, not to /foo
13:23	muhoo	dunno if that makes any sense
13:23	cemerick	oh, I see what you mean
13:24	muhoo	i'm hacking around that by excepting /css/* /img/* /js/* for now
13:25	muhoo	but as i get more ajaxy, that won't work.
13:25	borkdude	so more info on the breaking maven/clojars thingy?
13:25	cemerick	muhoo: well, each request is stateless, so there's no indication as to which one is the "redirectable" uri.
13:26	muhoo	i'm thinking that maybe the first one should stay until after auth succeeds. subsequent unauthroized requests wouldn't replace :unauthorized-uri maybe?
13:26	cemerick	e.g. if a user hits /foo, bounces to the login page, then explicitly visits /bar, when they finally log in, you'd want them to go to /bar, not /foo.
13:27	muhoo	aye, true.
13:27	cemerick	why is the browser hitting these asset URIs if the page that refers to them requires authentication?
13:28	muhoo	that's a very good question
13:28	muhoo	maybe because the login page uses them
13:29	lypanov	403s?
13:29	muhoo	yep, that's what was happening. /login was excepted from the wrap. i'll just need to be careful to explicitly except from wrap, anything that might be needed for login pages then.
13:29	duck1123	Shouldn't making exceptions for your assets be the desired solution anyway? Do they really need to be authed to get the CSS file?
13:30	muhoo	in this case, that's how i solved it, yes.
13:31	kmicu	dnolen: but loading the file directly in your browser limitation only applies to REPL connection and I still can serve cljs site without HTTP server in production?
13:36	lypanov	kmicu: i'm doing so in production with no issues.
13:37	cemerick	muhoo: right, so getting the authorization guards in the right places is important.
13:38	cemerick	There's been some suggestion that a sandbar-like pattern system is desirable. Not convinced either way on that at the moment, but it would help in cases like this where you're wrapping another complete app.
13:38	cemerick	lypanov: http 403 (unauthorized), which often leads to a login page
13:39	muhoo	sandbar?
13:40	muhoo	duck1123: this is what i ended up with https://www.refheap.com/paste/3091
13:42	cemerick	muhoo: A Clojure authentication framework by Brenton Ashworth.
13:44	teleghui	lypanov:thx, http server on android will be strange for js app :)
13:44	duck1123	replacing my homebrewed auth system with friend is just one of the items on my list of things to do
13:45	muhoo	cemerick: hm, shouldn't be too hard to graft something like this onto friend: https://www.refheap.com/paste/3092 (from his docs)
13:45	nDuff	teleghui: you don't need a HTTP server for local browser-hosted on Android
13:45	nDuff	err, browser-hosted apps
13:46	cemerick	muhoo: quite right; you could write it right now, actually :-)
13:46	muhoo	it'd be one function, and a short one too
13:46	cemerick	Doesn't need to be part of friend, just a bit of middleware that reuses the authorization fns.
13:46	antares_	I am trying to access request or query params from a Noir handler. Is it possible without dropping down to bare compojure handlers?
13:46	muhoo	what a great language to be working in.
13:47	gfredericks	is there a way to `lein repl` with a working directory independent of the project?
13:47	gfredericks	e.g. LEIN_ROOT=/my/project lein repl
13:49	teleghui	nDuff: i need if i want to connect REPL to ot :)
13:49	muhoo	antares_: it's usually {:as fields}
13:49	nDuff	teleghui: ahh, you mean a remote one? nod.
13:50	muhoo	antares_ : i.e. (defpage "/login" {:as params} , then params is your query or form params
13:50	antares_	muhoo: so it works like regular destructuring over maps?
13:50	technomancy	gfredericks: other than cd? maybe set PWD?
13:51	antares_	I tried that, with :keys [a b] and :as m I only have :a and :b in the map
13:52	muhoo	i'm almost certain i've done (defpage "/foo" {:keys [a b] :m} before
13:52	muhoo	sorry :as m
13:53	antares_	muhoo: yup, it works now, I found an issue on my end. Thank you!
13:53	teleghui	nDuff: you can't connect to repl from static site served via file:///
13:53	gfredericks	technomancy: I was just hoping that I could launch a project from anywhere and have it run with my current working directory; no big deal if that's silly
13:53	nDuff	teleghui: did I say file:///?
13:54	duck1123	gfredericks: you could set up a shell script to set your project before launching the repl.
13:58	muhoo	slamhound is giving me this: ZipException error in opening zip file java.util.zip.ZipFile.open (ZipFile.java:-2)
13:59	technomancy	muhoo: usually means a jar was truncated
13:59	borkdude	probably not a lot people have noticed the central/clojars thing, since they are looking forward to their new macbooks :P
13:59	dustingetz	i'm struggling with postgresql environment/auth issues, anybody been through this before?
13:59	muhoo	i also have checkouts in my cp too. h
14:03	semperos	dustingetz: it's an experience I think most like to forget :)
14:04	technomancy	dustingetz: I hear the best thing to do in development is run postgres as your own user
14:04	dustingetz	shit wrong room haha sorry folks
14:06	gfredericks	duck1123: what does "set your project before launching the repl" mean?
14:09	duck1123	gfredericks: basically, have your shell script cd into the project and run the repl and then return when done
14:10	duck1123	I know there's a better way to do that, but it's been some time
14:10	S11001001	duck1123: you can't setcwd in java
14:10	duck1123	but you can in bash
14:10	duck1123	it's not a great solution...
14:11	zachallaun	Quick noir question: is there a way to get a stack trace (or other debug info) when a page fails to load, instead of the generic "something very bad has happened"?
14:11	S11001001	right, but sometimes you want your code to be executing in the invoking directory
14:12	S11001001	for which you can java -cp `cd projdir && lein classpath` clojure.main --repl or whatever
14:12	muhoo	zachallaun: if you're in dev mode, you shouldget the stacktrace.
14:12	muhoo	zachallaun: if you want stacktraces sent to you, not to the browser, there's http://github.com/kenrestivo/firealarm
14:12	zachallaun	muhoo: Awesome, thanks!
14:13	gfredericks	duck1123: wouldn't that mean the JVM's CWD is still the project?
14:15	duck1123	Could you write a script to cd into the project, copy the classpath string, cd back to the original dir and invoke java? (Seems way too complicated)
14:16	duck1123	just throwing out random thoughts here
14:20	gfredericks	that is worth thinking about
14:20	gfredericks	thx
14:21	muhoo	much as i love clojure, i'm finding in making Real World Apps (tm), i'm spending maybe 70% of my time dealing with java/jvm/maven/lein stuff, and 30% actually writing clojure
14:21	AimHere	duck1123, if you're talking about bash, pushd and popd would be your friends for that sort of thing
14:22	muhoo	i.e. Caused by: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Could not initialize class cheshire.core__init
14:25	ivan	muhoo: beats spending 99% of your time writing a non-maven build system
14:26	amalloy	gtrak: you might like https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/useful/map.clj#L5 as a simpler (though perhaps not easier, depending on your use cases) alternative to let-map
14:26	amalloy	(keyed [a b c]) => {:a a, :b b, :c c}
14:27	Jayunit100	muhoo: me to
14:27	gtrak	ah thanks, I was thinking something like it must exist
14:27	Jayunit100	Spend most of my time defining w packages and namespaces.
14:27	muhoo	ivan: oh lein makes it a LOT less painful, to be sure.
14:28	kreig1	muhoo: that overhead goes away
14:28	Jayunit100	1) I would like to contribute to improve the docs and namespace error messages, so that they are more user friendsy, like the ones in GWT. 2) Lein is AWESOME. I can't complain.
14:28	kreig1	muhoo: I am writing a "real world app" and most of my time is writing actualy clojure
14:28	gtrak	amalloy: I was mostly just curious to see if I could do it, but it seems kind of a dual to destructuring.
14:30	kreig1	muhoo: about 13k lines now
14:30	muhoo	kreig1: that's huge for a clj program.
14:30	dakrone	muhoo: where are you seeing that exception?
14:31	muhoo	dakrone: https://www.refheap.com/paste/3093
14:31	gtrak	amalloy: so, with 'keyed' you have to type a name 2 times, that's better than the 3 times required without it, with let-map you just type it once
14:31	muhoo	dakrone: from the ns declaration, ultimately
14:31	kreig1	lunch time
14:32	dakrone	muhoo: do you have the code up somewhere, this is just a stacktrace
14:32	amalloy	gtrak: (defn foo [x] (let [y (inc x)] (keyed [y x])))
14:33	gtrak	right
14:33	amalloy	let-map can't do that
14:33	muhoo	dakrone: not for this one. i'll see if i can boil it down to a test case (of course, may end up fixing it in the pprocess :-)
14:33	kmicu	lypanov: Were you able to run https://github.com/stuartsierra/cljs-formatter?
14:34	gtrak	yea, you'd have to re-bind it, (defn foo[x] (let-map [y (inc x) x x]))
14:34	amalloy	you also can't let-bind some intermediate values like (let [x 1, y (inc x), z (inc y)] (keyed [x z]))
14:34	lypanov	kmicu: no never tried it might in a few weeks.
14:34	amalloy	i think it's a lot nicer to separate out "let's bind something" from "let's return a map"
14:35	gtrak	amalloy: yea, I think either one is a definite improvement, maybe 'keyed' should go in core? Like I said I think it's a nice complement to destructuring.
14:35	amalloy	meh. core is crowded enough, without importing all the random crap i write
14:36	gtrak	hehe
14:36	amalloy	just use some external libraries; there's no reason everything should be in core
14:36	gtrak	I guess if I wrote more random crap I'd feel the same way
14:37	gtrak	amalloy: mind if I link to keyed on my blog?
14:37	amalloy	knock yourself out
14:38	muhoo	kreig1: wow, clojure itself is only 28k lines or so. so whatever you're writing, wow.
14:38	amalloy	gtrak: btw, keyed also takes (keyed :strs [a]) => {"a" a}
14:38	amalloy	which helps dualize with map destructuring
14:40	gtrak	ah yea, neato
14:42	dustingetz	how do i change a dynamic variable? i've tried set! and def, from within the appropriate ns
14:42	ohpauleez	dustingetz: welcome man!
14:43	tbaldridge	dustingetz: I think as of Clojure 1.3 you have to set the var as dynamic first: (def ^:dynamic foo 42)
14:43	tbaldridge	Then set! should work iirc.
14:43	ohpauleez	dustingetz: you want the binding function
14:43	ohpauleez	http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/binding
14:43	dustingetz	lol, hi paul, we met at philly lambda a month or two ago, you gave a talk on clojure and clojurescript at tutorspree
14:43	ohpauleez	if you want it to be stateful, you need something like an atom
14:43	dustingetz	thanks for the link
14:44	ohpauleez	dustingetz: of course I remember
14:44	tbaldridge	yeah, bindings only apply to the current thread. So use binding with pmap and you'll run into tons of issues.
14:46	gtrak	amalloy: map juxt vs zipmap, i like that, too
14:46	amalloy	gtrak: in particular there's no reason at all to use zipmap at runtime when you could build the form at macro time
14:46	amalloy	with zipmap or with juxt, whatever
14:47	gtrak	ah, I see, that's much better
14:49	gtrak	so you build the literal with symbols, then it gets eval'd at runtime
14:56	adu	are any of you going to the Reston, VA meeting?
14:58	muhoo	dakrone: it appears to be lein2 related. in lein1.7.1, everything works, all ns's appear to compile. using "lein2 check", i get that stacktrace. so it's related i think to the order of dependency resolution
15:02	gtrak	amalloy: well at first I was thinking of doing something with &env instead of destructuring and parsing the bindings, so at least I didn't re-invent it that way :-)
15:03	xeqi	muhoo: `lein deps :tree` will show you what versions its getting
15:03	xeqi	for lein2
15:03	muhoo	xeqi: yes, i did that. and the versions are the same on this non-working app as for my working demo app
15:04	muhoo	lein2 check blows up: https://www.refheap.com/paste/3094 lein2 check works just fine: https://www.refheap.com/paste/3095
15:05	nDuff	lpetit: Howdy -- I posted to clojure-tools this morning w/ a proposal for the REPL / classpath thing; would very much appreciate your feedback.
15:05	muhoo	oh, wtf? there are two different versions of jackson in there. beeee-zarre
15:06	nDuff	lpetit: (also added Felix support to clojure.osgi in a different changeset; feedback would be welcome there as well)
15:06	lpetit	nDuf: hello, saw it while at work, indeed. Don't know if I'll have time to answer quickly, tho, very busy both @ work & @ home
15:06	lpetit	nDuff: have you been able to contact aav ?
15:08	nDuff	Haven't really made an effort -- my first inclination is to consider a maintainer w/o commits for 6 months inactive, though perhaps it shouldn't be.
15:08	nDuff	...thanks for the suggestion, though; I'll send an email.
15:09	lpetit	nDuff: well, he's more "the creator", I'm just a "user" of clojure.osgi which happens to use his own fork :)
15:26	pbostrom	amalloy: I'm reading through useful.map. re: "unchanged values are not re-assoc'd"; is this for performance? In your experience do you find it to be noticeable?
15:26	amalloy	pbostrom: i think it's supposed to be for performance; i have no idea if it makes a difference
15:46	gfredericks	,(let [m {:foo 4}] (identical? m (assoc m :foo 4)))
15:46	clojurebot	true
15:47	gfredericks	,(let [m {:foo 4}] (identical? m (-> m (assoc :foo 5) (assoc :foo 4))))
15:47	clojurebot	false
15:47	S11001001	microoptimization ahoy
15:48	borkdude	gfredericks that looks a bit scary
15:48	S11001001	,(let [m {:bar 4}] (identical? m (assoc m :bar 5 :bar 4)))
15:48	clojurebot	false
15:49	arrdem	hey guys.. classpath issue I need some help with
15:50	arrdem	I have mixed .java and .clj files deep in a dir structure and as I'm compiling them clj claims that it can't find .class files co-located with the .clj's
15:50	arrdem	ideas?
15:51	gtrak	i think you need to compile the java in a separate step
15:51	gtrak	how are you compiling?
15:51	arrdem	I javac first, leave the .class files next to their .javas and then run clj
15:52	amalloy	~leiningen
15:52	clojurebot	http://github.com/technomancy/leiningen
15:52	S11001001	lein looks in classes, not the java source tree
15:52	arrdem	k I'll check it out. thaks
15:53	S11001001	huh.
15:54	gtrak	arrdem: in the sample project: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/sample.project.clj#L170
15:57	muhoo	oh FFS. clj-aws depends on jackson-core-asl, for the license (apache), whereas cheshire depends on jackson-core, presumably LGPL?
15:57	gtrak	muhoo: you can add exclusions in your project.clj
15:57	dakrone	muhoo: which clj-aws?
15:58	dakrone	muhoo: https://github.com/pingles/clj-aws/blob/master/project.clj ?
15:58	lypanov	aye. exclusions ftw.
15:59	muhoo	dakrone: https://www.refheap.com/paste/3094
16:00	dakrone	muhoo: ahh, clj-aws is using an older version of jackson
16:00	muhoo	so aws-java-sdk is pulling in jackson-core-asl 1.9.7, and noir is pulling in cheshire which pulls in 2.0.0
16:00	muhoo	i don't know for sure if that's what's causing cheshire to fail to load in lein2, but it might be
16:01	muhoo	if the two jackson's have the same ns, they could be clobbering each other
16:01	muhoo	will try exclusion and see how that goes
16:01	gtrak	muhoo: sometimes it's random which version of the class gets loaded first
16:01	gtrak	you definitely want to avoid that scenario
16:02	dakrone	tell amazon to upgrade their deps ;)
16:03	gtrak	"some internet clojure dev needs it to be a different version? we only have a few thousand deployments using it? I'll get right on it!" :-)
16:04	muhoo	it's repeateable: in lein2 clj-aws gets loaded first, with the incompatible jackson. in lein1.7.1, noir then cheshire gets loaded first
16:04	gtrak	muhoo: yea, on a different version of java, the other may get loaded, ask me how I know ;-)
16:04	muhoo	same project
16:04	muhoo	hahahaa
16:05	muhoo	now i understand why technomancy is so keen on repeatability. it appears that it's not a given in java.
16:05	gtrak	nah
16:06	gtrak	one time I had conflicting ASM libraries break Spring AOP proxying... but it 'worked for me' on my box ;-), so I told him to stop breaking shit
16:06	gtrak	him -> a colleague
16:06	gtrak	took a couple hours to figure out what was going on
16:07	gtrak	maybe it was cglib
16:10	timvisher	is ring-json-params still the state-of-the-art for json middleware?
16:11	dustingetz	question about dynamic vars again
16:11	dustingetz	from a third party library docs:
16:11	dustingetz	By default all migrations are kept in the lobos.migrations namespace. It'll get automatically loaded by migration commands, so there's no need to load it yourself. Thus, to use another namespace you must change the lobos.migration/migrations-namespace dynamic variable.
16:11	dustingetz	using ns or in-ns, i do: (set! migrations-namespace 'gb.install.migrations)
16:12	dustingetz	which yields `Can't change/establish root binding of: migrations-namespace with set `
16:12	dustingetz	also tried
16:12	dustingetz	(def ^:dynamic lobos.migration/migrations-namespace 'gb.install.migrations) which yields Can't create defs outside of current ns
16:12	gtrak	alter-var-root?
16:13	technomancy	that sounds craaaaazy
16:13	gtrak	dropped my laptop. thankful for ssd ;-D
16:14	dustingetz	hmm, the docs on alter-var-root are confusing to me
16:14	dustingetz	how would i use it?
16:14	dustingetz	it expects a fn to apply to the global
16:14	dustingetz	i would expect to use set! in that fn or something, i dont see how that would resolve the error
16:17	gtrak	,(#(identity 5)) ; replace 5 with your value
16:17	clojurebot	5
16:17	technomancy	I would be surprised if lobos made you use alter-var-root
16:17	technomancy	if it really does I would suggest looking for an alternative
16:18	gtrak	why not just add your migrations to its namespace?
16:19	dustingetz	i get classpath errors because my package structure doesn't line up with their namespaces
16:20	gtrak	dustingetz: uhhh... I think you should just use defmigration
16:20	dustingetz	i will probably confirm to their requirement for now bc this is super dumb
16:20	dustingetz	i am using defmigration but their (migrate) fn is trying to load my migrations from lobos/migrations.clj which is due to that global
16:20	gtrak	defmigration swaps a var within that namespace
16:21	gtrak	what's the problem?
16:21	dustingetz	running (migrate) yields error: Could not locate lobos/migrations__init.class or lobos/migrations.clj on classpath
16:21	dustingetz	due to the damn global
16:22	gtrak	why wouldn't you be able to access that namespace?
16:22	gtrak	sounds like a project setup issue
16:22	gtrak	,(use 'arbitrary.ns)
16:22	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate arbitrary/ns__init.class or arbitrary/ns.clj on classpath: >
16:23	muhoo	great, :exclusions successfully excludes the older jacksons, but, doesn't solve the problem. (ns noir.response (:require [cheshire.core])) is failing, but only on lein2
16:23	gtrak	,(require 'arbitrary.ns)
16:23	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate arbitrary/ns__init.class or arbitrary/ns.clj on classpath: >
16:23	dakrone	muhoo: because lein2 uses cheshire in itself
16:23	muhoo	wat?
16:23	clojurebot	For Jswat: start clojure with -Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=n,address=8888
16:24	gtrak	and for JSwat go here: http://www.shopify.com/technology/5370262-wat-a-funny-look-at-ruby-and-javascript-oddities
16:24	technomancy	dakrone: you mean the repl-specific stuff?
16:24	dakrone	technomancy: yea
16:24	technomancy	did we end up with a way to turn that off?
16:25	dakrone	technomancy: well, clj-http is loaded on-demand now, but that still may not prevent it from messing up the classloader stuff, I don't understand classloader stuff entirely
16:26	technomancy	muhoo: for debugging's sake try getting it working with lein run first
16:26	gtrak	dakrone: on-demand?
16:26	lypanov	gtrak: thing with ruby that kills me is "blah if blah and blah" does NOT do what you expect
16:26	muhoo	technomancy: it was failing with lien2 check
16:26	muhoo	lein2 check
16:26	technomancy	oh, ok, so it's not the repl deps then
16:26	dakrone	gtrak: in `lein repl`, clj-http isn't loaded until you try to use (cdoc ...) or (clojuredocs ...)
16:26	gtrak	lypanov: ?
16:27	gtrak	dakrone: ah
16:27	muhoo	it doesn't seem like a repl thing. i'm preparing a bare minimum fail case now
16:27	timvisher	How would you go about handling json parse errors gracefully if you were trying to use the wrap-json-params middleware?
16:27	gtrak	lypanov: ah, the wat link. Yea I have yet to be impressed enough with ruby to go ahead and learn it. I already know python though.
16:30	gtrak	lypanov: I've always hated having to think about operator precedence
16:30	gtrak	even before I started using clojure. Anytime I saw an interview question about it, I'd be like, I'd just put some parenthesis there, I don't give a fuck about the rules
16:32	lypanov	gtrak: right. in ruby i always wrap any "expression" conditionals with () for this reason.
16:32	lypanov	(e.g. b = blah, or blah if b)
16:34	gtrak	yea... another fun one, C/C++ you have the option to shoot yourself like this if (a = getValue()) {blah}... instead of ==. java stops you
16:34	emezeske	gtrak: Shoot yourself, or be succinct, depending on context :)
16:34	gtrak	emezeske: haha yea
16:35	gtrak	quite easy to gloss over
16:36	gtrak	so there's a pattern to write literals on the left: if (null = getValure()) is now a compile error
16:37	emezeske	gtrak: Otherwise known as Yoda Conditionals
16:38	gtrak	ah, I never heard that one
16:39	emezeske	"If null is getValue(), ..."
16:39	muhoo	why yoda?
16:39	emezeske	Read the above in yoda voice :)
16:39	gtrak	it does apply in java though, in the case of checking equality of strings, thankfully clojure just does the right thing with nulls
16:39	amalloy	gtrak: getValue() = null is an error too
16:40	gtrak	yea
16:40	muhoo	we do have the NPE though... the segfault of java
16:40	emezeske	amalloy: In Java maybe, but in C++, only God knows what that will do.
16:40	emezeske	amalloy: I guess "null" implies Java, though, so I'll quiet down
16:41	gtrak	so in java, aString.equals("literal") should really be "literal".equals(aString), so you can skip the null check
16:41	gtrak	,(= "hello" nil)
16:41	clojurebot	false
16:41	amalloy	emezeske: i think that can only be correct in C++ if you're returning a value (not a pointer) and someone has overloaded the = operator
16:42	emezeske	amalloy: That would definitely do the trick.
16:44	muhoo	nice. i can't get it to fail in a small test app
16:44	gtrak	amalloy: it can be used to check for a null-pointer, no? say if an allocation didn't work?
16:44	muhoo	so now i have to build up the whole app, file by file, waiting to see where it breaks :-/
16:45	amalloy	gtrak: huh?
16:45	emezeske	muhoo: You using git? Maybe a git bisect could be helpful?
16:45	gtrak	like: if (a=malloc(large_amount) {} , it's been a while ;-). malloc will return null if it can't
16:46	amalloy	indeed. but your null = getValue() example is not valid in either direction
16:46	gtrak	right
16:47	gtrak	that's the point of that, so you don't accidentally write =, it's a guard. null == getValue() is fine, so you just get in the habit of doing it that way
16:48	amalloy	gtrak: you're using an example that does not support the (entirely viable, though i don't like them personally) yoda conditions
16:48	amalloy	both of these result in a compiler error: (getValue() = null) (null == getValue())
16:49	amalloy	er, too many =s in the second
16:49	gtrak	huh?
16:49	gtrak	am I missing something?
16:50	amalloy	apparently. getValue() = null already fails to compile, so there's no value in switching the order to save yourself
16:50	gtrak	right... sure.
16:51	muhoo	emezeske: the change was simple enough, don't need bisect, i went from noir 1.3.0-beta2 to noir-1.3.0-beta8, which bumped cheshire from 3.0.0. to 4.0.0 ==> boom!
16:51	gtrak	null == getValue() is fine
16:51	cemerick	Why does java.jdbc's get-connection define its own URI convention, instead of just passing strings and URIs along to DriverManager directly?
16:52	muhoo	emezeske: the mystery is in what specifically in my app is causing this failure to manifest itself, and only with lein2, just to make life interesting.
16:53	emezeske	muhoo: Ah, yeah, a git bisection would not be helpful then
16:53	emezeske	muhoo: Just a regular by-hand bisection :)
16:55	muhoo	i tried a minimal test app, with just the :dependencies from the broken app, and no problems. so it's somethign i'm doing somewhere, some order of class-loading based on the tangle of :requires i've got somewhere
16:55	jsabeaudry	Raynes, still nothing regarding my pull request? not even a comment or an insult?
16:55	cemerick	perhaps seancorfield knows? :-)
16:56	Raynes	jsabeaudry: What pull request where? :\|
16:56	Raynes	I tried to tackle a bunch of the pull requests and stuff I'd been ignoring last night.
16:56	Raynes	Oh!
16:56	Raynes	tryclj.
16:56	jsabeaudry	Yup :)
16:56	Raynes	I knew I recognized the nick.
16:57	muhoo	is there a way to get lein2 check to show a longer, or rather complete, stacktrace, none of this "... 46 more" stuff?
16:58	nDuff	lpetit: Thank you for the suggestion to ping aav; heard back with initial interest and intent to closely review and merge over the next few days.
16:58	Raynes	I talked with some friends who know more about cljs than I do and the general consensus was that, for such a small codebase, moving to cljs didn't really gain anything. And the translation was more or less direct, so it felt like writing javascript in Clojure just for the sake of it. I left it open because I planned to revisit it and play with it myself in the future, but I just haven't had time.
16:59	nDuff	Is it worth filing a bug about (remove-ns) not removing the value from clojure.core/loaded-libs? (Is it, for that matter, a bug?) -- Can lead to unintuitive behavior as a removed namespace then can't be reloaded.
17:00	Raynes	The code is something I'd like to explore as a learning experience because I'd like to move refheap to cljs at some point.
17:00	Raynes	(and the code does a lot of what I'm not familiar with in cljs)
17:02	muhoo	nDuff: i'm pretty sure i've reloaded unloaded ns'es before
17:03	muhoo	oic, the ... 46 more are at the top of the stacktrace. odd.
17:03	nDuff	muhoo: I'm quite sure that using require to repopulate an unloaded ns doesn't work with Clojure 1.4.0 without clearing the entry out from loaded-libs
17:03	technomancy	muhoo: usually 46 more means 46 more identical frames
17:04	arrdem	from a lein -main function how can I drop to the REPL after running some code?
17:04	technomancy	arrdem: (clojure.main/repl)
17:04	arrdem	cheers
17:04	gtrak	oh damn, that's useful
17:04	jsabeaudry	Raynes, I agree that it is mostly for the sake of having it in cljs but can also serve as an example of simple cljs. What are the advantages of keeping it in javascript?
17:06	Raynes	jsabeaudry: Well, I actually understand js to some extent.
17:06	jsabeaudry	Raynes, ah you dont understand clojure to some extent? ;)
17:07	Raynes	I don't understand this language at all.
17:07	gtrak	js is like scheme, right?
17:07	nDuff	...if only.
17:08	brehaut	its like scheme that suffered a TBI at a young age
17:08	brehaut	(traumatic brain injury)
17:08	gtrak	they should have just made it scheme and called it javascript
17:09	gtrak	javascheme
17:09	brehaut	if they have just switchd the parens for braces, it would have appeased the C programmers too
17:09	borkdude	there were plans for scheme-like languages first I heared in a Crockford talk
17:09	borkdude	for a Scheme-like language in the browser I mean
17:09	borkdude	The grand Scheme of things
17:12	pbostrom	+1 for (clojure.main/repl), I've been running $ lein repl => (-main) all this time, so many wasted keystrokes
17:12	S11001001	phpscript
17:12	S11001001	the skeleton key to popularity
17:12	gtrak	omg
17:13	gtrak	let's port clojure to php!
17:13	S11001001	you first
17:13	eck`	let's port php to clojure!
17:13	gtrak	hahahaha
17:13	borkdude	gtrak what's next.. vbscript?
17:13	gtrak	yea!
17:14	borkdude	cljobol
17:14	llasram	Since there are JVM COBOLs...
17:15	eck`	good thinking -- we can leverage the efficiency of clojure with the ease-of-use of cobol
17:15	S11001001	how about as a first exercise, an acme-php (http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/acme-php/0.0.1/doc/html/src/Prelude-PHP.html) for clojure
17:16	muhoo	dakrone: is there a 2.0.0 equivalent to jackson-mapper?
17:16	borkdude	clojure to objective c?
17:16	gtrak	borkdude: we kinda have that with cljs -> gambit
17:19	muhoo	dakrone: i think i am really screwed here. clj-aws-s3 requires jackson-mapper-asl. it refuses to compile without it
17:20	muhoo	and there does not seem to be any such thing in version 2.0.0, to be compatible with the jackson used in cheshire 4.0.0, which i need in order to use noir-1.3.0-beta8...
17:21	muhoo	FML
17:24	dakrone	muhoo: can you open an issue on cheshire so I can look into it at a later time?
17:27	muhoo	sure
17:29	muhoo	i'll look around to see if org.codehaus.jackson.JsonFactory might be implemented somewhere else in 2.0.0. if there's no such thing anymore, i'm painted into a corner.
17:31	lpetit	nDuff: ping
17:31	pepijndevos__	dnolen, ISubstitutions is a rather large protocol :\|
17:32	nDuff	lpetit: pong
17:32	dnolen	pepijndevos__: how do you think it could being smaller?
17:33	lpetit	nDuff: For my own stuff for CCW, and FYI, here is function I'm using to set things up before e.g. using Interop forms in nrepl server
17:33	lpetit	:
17:33	pepijndevos__	dnolen, don't know yet... I imagine the difference between the -no-check and * variants to be pretty generic
17:34	lpetit	nDuff: https://github.com/laurentpetit/ccw/blob/master/ccw.util/src/clj/ccw/util/bundle.clj#L82
17:36	ferd	I was showing 4clojure.com to a co-worker... Looks like he brought it down ;-) Just started getting: 502 Bad Gateway.
17:36	lpetit	nDuff: maybe also this could be interesting: https://github.com/laurentpetit/ccw/blob/master/ccw.util/src/clj/ccw/util/bundle.clj#L105
17:38	lpetit	nDuff: also, one remark = is overloading in-ns sufficient in all cases ? (is in-ns called under the hood from require, etc. when code is loaded ?)
17:39	nDuff	lpetit: works in my testing, yes.
17:40	nDuff	lpetit: ...only case I haven't checked is AOT-compiled code
17:40	amalloy	ferd: this damn site goes down all the time and i can't figure out how to keep it up consistently
17:41	pepijndevos__	dnolen, why is Substitutions a protocol if there is only one implementation?
17:41	ferd	amalloy: you run it? Is it the JVM that dies or what?
17:41	gfredericks	pepijndevos__: the Substitutions type implements other protocols
17:42	amalloy	ferd: mostly what happens is that user code causes an OOM (since there's no way to sandbox memory allocations), which causes the webserver to crawl into a hole and refuse to talk to anyone
17:42	gfredericks	in order for it to have substitution-y behavior as well there needs to be a protocol to implement
17:42	pepijndevos__	hm
17:42	amalloy	i have a cron job that detects this state and restarts it. when i run the cron job by hand, it works; when the script is run from inside cron, it just kills the existing JVM and fails to bring the site back up
17:43	pepijndevos__	ah, I see... trying to remember all this stuff now.
17:43	gfredericks	pepijndevos__: since you can't just add bare methods onto a type
17:43	gfredericks	also there might be some hypothetical reason you might want to implement it with something else; dunno
17:43	lpetit	nDuff: last but not least = I don't know much about nREPL middle wares, but maybe they can, as are ring middle wares, be parameterized ? If so, I'd suggest not hardwiring clojure.osgi specifics in the middleware, and have it take as a parameter a function taking the session and returning the class loader to be used -> and then set this class loader in the right places (thread's context class loader, Compiler/LOADER, etc.)
17:43	ferd	amalloy: I see. The guy says he was just searching users to mark as "friends" (or, follows, whatever it is) and it suddenly stop responding to user search. But it could've been just coincidence that some other user was running memory hungry code
17:44	amalloy	yeah, it's unlikely it was his fault
17:45	ferd	amalloy: he says it's back up now. He's trying to kill it again :-)
17:47	amalloy	i know, i brought it up manually, again :P
17:47	nDuff	lpetit: Hmm -- that's a thing that can be done, yes.
17:48	amalloy	hope he enjoys it!
17:48	nDuff	lpetit: setting the bundle var is both worthwhile and necessarily dependent on clojure.osgi, but having a generic, non-OSGi-aware version is sane.
17:48	dakrone	muhoo: check out cheshire.factory
17:48	nDuff	(re: setting that var being worthwhile -- without it, not all of clojure.osgi's magic works from the REPL, given as the REPL threads weren't set up through the Bundle-Activator and didn't get bundle bound)
17:49	dakrone	muhoo: https://github.com/dakrone/cheshire/blob/master/src/cheshire/factory.clj
17:49	lpetit	nDuff: something like that (untested, and not adjusted for setting the thread's context class loader, and not solving the setting of the clojure.osgi/bundle var also) https://gist.github.com/2912899
17:50	lpetit	nDuff: in my experience, setting the thread's context class loader as per the prior provided url was sufficient
17:51	nDuff	lpetit: it worked in _most_ cases for me, but not all
17:52	nDuff	lpetit: specifically, setting the thread classloader was not always sufficient for some kind of interaction with compiled Java classes coming from the local bundle.
17:52	lpetit	nDuff: would be interested in a comprehensive "state of the art" report because it's too easy to forget
17:52	lpetit	nDuff: oh
17:52	lpetit	compiled java classes, or gen-classes ?
17:53	nDuff	compiled java classes
17:53	nDuff	darned odd bugs, too -- I could refer to MyClass and get back the class object, but then I'd call (type MyClass) and clojure.lang.Compiler would throw a NoClassDefFoundException.
17:53	dnolen	pepijndevos__: down to 4 for ISubstitutions http://github.com/clojure/core.logic/commit/118a3c30991080f1303eb6c55deed54f61abcc93
17:53	lpetit	nDuff: then also setting Compiler/LOADER and the context classoader should be sufficient ? I'm not sure I remember why setting clojure.osgi/bundle is necessary
17:54	lpetit	nDuff: it's quite hard to come up with the minimal requirements, indeed
17:54	dnolen	pepijndevos__: can probably get down to 3 with some more thought. Thanks for the feedback.
17:54	pepijndevos__	dnolen, you're to fast :P
17:54	nDuff	lpetit: setting clojure.osgi/bundle ensures that new libraries being require'd from the REPL can tie back into the bundle system to attach metadata to themselves in the overridden loaders provided by clojure.osgi
17:55	nDuff	lpetit: ...which, if nothing else, is bookkeeping for the module-unload system
17:55	pepijndevos__	dnolen, there are constaints and constraintstores in master too. Did I not pay attention, or is there something more than plain minikanren in there?
17:56	lpetit	nDuff: oh, ok, understood now. In my classical workflow, I'm only testing things, and namespaces are generally already required by the Eclipse framework. That's why I'm not encountering this problem in the first place.
17:56	dnolen	pepijndevos__: it only disequality constraints in master - cKanren branch is more generic.
17:56	nDuff	lpetit: if you're curious about classes where clojure.lang.Compiler/LOADER is necessary -- I wrote this while flailing around last week: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10941330/class-forname-in-clojure-not-respecting-contextclassloader/10955157
17:56	nDuff	s/classes/cases/
17:56	dnolen	pepijndevos__: disequality constraints is really just CLP(Tree), which is a part of cKanren
17:57	lpetit	nDuff:thanks, will read it (tho not yet -> bed time here in France). CU !
17:57	pepijndevos__	dnolen, ok, thanks. I must say that everything-in-one-big-file makes it a little hard for me to understand a small subset of it.
17:58	pepijndevos__	dnolen, which onee do you think could be omited with some thought?
17:58	gtrak	mmm... retina display sounds nice for emacs
17:59	dnolen	pepijndevos__: maybe update ... it's a bit tied into looking at and checking the constraint store.
18:00	pepijndevos__	hm
18:00	dnolen	pepijndevos__: we do have a new gross big protocol tho - IFiniteDomain ... less clear how to make that one smaller.
18:01	pepijndevos__	dnolen, looking it up... sounds interesting.
18:01	pepijndevos__	I feel that a domain representation is something I can work on without understanding the whole of ckanren
18:02	dnolen	pepijndevos__: definitely, it's pretty self contained.
18:02	pepijndevos__	right
18:03	pepijndevos__	I'm probably going to look at it with oscar the coming days
18:03	dnolen	pepijndevos__: all Java ints, sorted-sets, and IntervalFD need to interoperate.
18:06	dnolen	pepijndevos__: I'm pretty excited about where it's going, particular the constraint store rep vs. the one presented in the paper and GitHub cKanren repo.
18:07	pepijndevos__	dnolen, how is a domain different from a sorted set in terms of interface?
18:09	dnolen	pepijndevos__: hmm? sorted-sets can be used as a domain. so can an Integer or Long. So can an instance of IntervalFD
18:09	dnolen	pepijndevos__: Java integer types will also be marker protocoled as ISingletonDomain.
18:10	pepijndevos__	dnolen, I mean, afaict, clojure.set contains all the operations you want to perform. I think these are not protocol based though :(
18:10	dnolen	pepijndevos__: they are protocols so can't use them.
18:10	dnolen	pepijndevos__: also we don't actually want sets anyway. too slow.
18:11	dnolen	aren't protocols.
18:11	dnolen	pepijndevos__: for example in cKanren core.logic (intersection 1 (interval 1 10)) is just a bounds check and returns 1.
18:12	dnolen	pepijndevos__: also if no intersection, we just want nil
18:13	pepijndevos__	dnolen, right, right... a domain is to a set like a seq to a reducer ;)
18:13	pepijndevos__	erhm, other way around
18:15	pepijndevos__	what does lb, ub and drop-before do?
18:16	pepijndevos__	does ifinitedomain also express non-number domains?
18:18	pepijndevos__	ah, lower bound and upper bound
18:18	muhoo	technomancy: is there some way to get a list of or debug what the classpath is at the time that leinw is compiling?
18:19	muhoo	lein2
18:19	technomancy	other than `lein classpath` you mean?
18:20	dnolen	pepijndevos__: I've thought about that. What you really want is some kind domain alias. So underneath you have #{1 2 3 4 5} but at the higher level you can say :coffee :tea :water :milk :lemonade
18:20	muhoo	technomancy: yes! that's it. perfect. i found the problem, i think
18:20	muhoo	.m2/repository/org/codehaus/jackson/jackson-core-asl/1.9.7/jackson-core-asl-1.9.7.jar:
18:20	muhoo	that shoudl NOT be on the cp. it's not in :dependencies, not in lein deps :tree. why is it in cp?
18:21	pepijndevos__	dnolen, why do you want that? (< :tea :milk) makes no sense.
18:21	dnolen	pepijndevos__: think about zebrao.
18:21	dnolen	pepijndevos__: and many other constraint satisfaction problems.
18:22	pepijndevos__	dnolen, what about it?
18:23	pepijndevos__	dnolen, you mean constraints like rightofo?
18:23	dnolen	pepijndevos__: righto could be (+fd h0 1 h1)
18:23	muhoo	shouldn't lein2 deps :tree be the same list of jars as in lein2 classpath?
18:24	technomancy	it should
18:26	muhoo	hmmm, nm, that's not it then
18:28	pepijndevos__	dnolen, I don't know... I'll think about it.
18:28	dnolen	pepijndevos__: written in terms of CLP(FD) it's going to be way faster (Dan already said it is) and order will matter hardly at all.
18:28	muhoo	i'm baffled as to why i'm getting this error: Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.codehaus.jackson.JsonFactory , when the word codehaus doesn't appear anywhere in the deps. it should be com.fasterxml.jackson.core, etc
18:29	pepijndevos__	dnolen, I think separating the order from the domain might be key to a simple interface.
18:30	Jayunit100	whats the most idiomatic what to implement case statement logic in clojure? seems like there are different options.
18:30	dnolen	pepijndevos__: I meant order of the goals. What order are you talking about?
18:30	brehaut	Jayunit100: if you need a case, then case is probably the best
18:30	Jayunit100	glad i asked….
18:30	brehaut	Jayunit100: condp is a bit more general than case, and cond is very general
18:30	Jayunit100	brehaut: condp ---> okay cool.
18:31	pepijndevos__	dnolen, of the domain, IFiniteDomain contains all sorts of things that only apply to ordered things.
18:46	muhoo	is there a way to get more detail on what lein is compiling? in other words, it says "compiling foo.server", but it's obviously sub-compiling other ns'es underneath that, just not showing it. is there a way to get it to show that?
18:50	technomancy	muhoo: it's actually Clojure that's compiling those, not leiningen
18:51	technomancy	there's nothing we can do to prevent them from getting compiled unfortunately
18:54	muhoo	np, thanks
18:56	pepijndevos_	dnolen, do you have an email where I can write more elaborately about my thoughts? I only have your -lists address :P
18:57	dnolen	pepijndevos_: what's your twitter account?
18:57	pepijndevos_	dnolen, pepijndevos
18:58	dnolen	pepijndevos_: DM'ed
18:58	pepijndevos_	yay
18:58	pepijndevos_	dnolen, I'll probably write you after having talked to oscar
18:58	dnolen	pepijndevos_: sounds good! looking forward to it.
19:16	vishesh	Is there a function that can filter a list until some condition is met?
19:17	amalloy	&(doc drop-while)
19:17	lazybot	⇒ "([pred coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of the items in coll starting from the first item for which (pred item) returns logical false."
19:18	vishesh	thanks. That seems to be it.
19:53	seancorfield	quick q about agents (since i'm still puzzled by them)... if i send 100 function invocations to a single agent, do any of those execute concurrently or are they all sequential (in some unspecified order)?
19:55	amalloy	seancorfield: they are all sequential, in the order the agent got them
19:56	cgag	i thought multiple threads would process things sent to an agent
19:56	seancorfield	and no one has yet managed to explain the difference between send and send-off to me in a way that satisfies... the difference in the docs talking about "potentially blocking" for send-off and that it uses "a separate thread" rather than "a thread from a thread pool"
19:57	seancorfield	amalloy: ok, to sending computation to an agent from all over an application will cause that computation to be single-threaded, but separate from the main app's threads?
19:58	amalloy	sounds about right
19:58	technomancy	send-off uses an unbounded thread pool
19:59	seancorfield	technomancy: so that only matters if you have lots of agents?
19:59	gfredericks	seancorfield: without that single-threadedness I don't think you could make sense of the agent having a state and each function computing the new state
19:59	technomancy	seancorfield: it matters if you want to control the number of active threads
19:59	seancorfield	gfredericks: right, that what i was assuming from the docs but i wanted to double-check
20:00	seancorfield	technomancy: suppose i have just one agent in my program... then send and send-off are the same, right?
20:00	technomancy	right
20:00	seancorfield	if i have 100 agents, it might matter (depending on the size of the thread pool for send)...
20:00	technomancy	well, assuming agents are the only thing using the thread pool
20:01	seancorfield	ah, gotcha...
20:02	seancorfield	so if i want to ensure my agent computation runs when the system is busy, i should use send-off rather than risk getting bogged down by the thread pool?
20:03	ohpauleez	seancorfield: Also, are you sure you really want agents? and not futures?
20:13	gfredericks	man when is core.logic going to be the top google hit for "core logic"
20:14	dnolen	gfredericks: what is it?
20:14	technomancy	whenever the maintainers of corelogic.com forget to renew their domain registration I would guess
20:14	gfredericks	$google core logic
20:14	lazybot	[CoreLogic - Information. Analytics. Insight.™] http://www.corelogic.com/
20:15	dnolen	gfredericks: I mean is core.logic 2nd?
20:15	gfredericks	2nd or third
20:15	gfredericks	looks 3rd to me
20:15	gfredericks	farvv.com is second
20:16	gfredericks	technomancy: you who surpassed Mister Versus the Ants ought to have more hope
20:17	technomancy	luckily Carl Stephenson never learned about godaddy
20:17	gfredericks	:)
20:17	gfredericks	technomancy: you've confused a whole pile of middle school teachers
20:17	fil512	is there a shorthand for (((:a (:b (:c map))) ?
20:17	gfredericks	fil512: get-in or ->
20:17	technomancy	I'm still waiting for an awesome flame war to erupt on the wikipedia talk page
20:18	technomancy	fil512: not without matching parentheses =)
20:18	gfredericks	fil512: though -> only works with keywords
20:22	rlb	seancorfield: I may be wrong, but my understanding was that you want send-off for things that might block because imagine that the thread pool only has 10 threads, and you call (send a #(Thread/sleep FOREVER)) 10 times.
20:22	seancorfield	ohpauleez: i do not want futures for this
20:22	ohpauleez	ahh, ok. Always worth a reminder ;)
20:22	rlb	Of course, in reality, it wouldn't be that severe.
20:22	rlb	s/wouldn't/shouldn't/
20:23	technomancy	ideally you'd just have a thread listening on an in-process queue
20:23	seancorfield	rlb: but if they're sequential, you'll tie up one thread and queued invocations just wouldn't be run, right?
20:23	technomancy	but you can abuse agents for it if it's not worth setting that up
20:23	amalloy	seancorfield: in his example, `a` doesn't always refer to the same agent
20:24	seancorfield	immutability :)
20:24	brainproxy	is the :auto-reload? option for lein-ring something implemented by lein-ring, or is there a way I can get the same effect if I'm manually invoking run-jetty using the repl
20:25	weavejester	brainproxy: It applies the wrap-reload middleware in the ring-devel package
20:25	brainproxy	whoops, meant :auto-refresh? more specifically
20:25	brainproxy	weavejester: cool, thanks
20:25	weavejester	brainproxy: Oh, in which case, that applies the wrap-refresh middleware in the ring-refresh package
20:26	weavejester	brainproxy: https://github.com/weavejester/ring-refresh
20:26	brainproxy	weavejester: thanks :)
20:26	cemerick	seancorfield: mind if I bother you about java.jdbc? :-)
20:27	seancorfield	fire away
20:27	fil512	how do I test a string for containing a substring?
20:28	fil512	clojure.string substring? doesn't seem to exist any more...
20:29	cemerick	seancorfield: Why does java.jdbc's get-connection define its own URI convention, instead of just passing strings and URIs along to DriverManager directly?
20:29	emezeske_	fil512: Juse use .indexOf, I think
20:29	emezeske_	fil512: Just*
20:30	fil512	hmm.. not boolian--kinda icky
20:30	fil512	no builtin boolean?
20:30	cemerick	I'm probably exposing my absolute ignorance re: jdbc connection strings, but getting connections through DriverManager for postgres simply doesn't work without using a property map or passing in my own :factory, etc.
20:32	seancorfield	cemerick: ask technomancy - i believe he added the string / URI functionality
20:32	technomancy	uh oh; what'd I break this time?
20:32	cemerick	ah, I should have done a blame ;-)
20:33	technomancy	I wasn't aware the underlying drivers support URIs; is that widely implemented?
20:33	cemerick	technomancy: java.jdbc's get-connection doesn't accept postgres-style connection strings
20:33	cemerick	or, not ones that include parameters (including login info)
20:33	technomancy	I have it working here; can you give an example?
20:34	seancorfield	postgresql://user:login@host:post/dbname ?
20:35	seancorfield	or something like that
20:35	kwertii	You can put all kinds of other params on there, too, with ?foo=bar&baz=asdf
20:35	cemerick	seancorfield: that produces "No suitable driver" when provided to DriverManager
20:35	cemerick	technomancy: any jdbc connection string produced from postgres.heroku.com AFAIK, e.g. jdbc:postgresql://ec2-22-21-231-117.compute-1.amazonaws.com:5432/d1kuxup5cdafl7?user=pcgoxvmssqabye&password=NFZXtxaLFhIX-nCA0Vi4UbJ6lH&ssl=true&sslfactory=org.postgresql.ssl.NonValidatingFactory
20:36	technomancy	I thought I added support for both, but try postgres://
20:36	seancorfield	in 0.2.2, the jdbc: prefix is stripped, before that it would have given an error
20:36	seancorfield	are you using 0.2.2 cemerick ?
20:36	cemerick	yup
20:37	cemerick	technomancy: a bare postgres:// URI gets through get-connection, but fails because it doesn't pick up the user, password, and ssl params
20:37	seancorfield	postgres should map to postgresql
20:38	cemerick	it's not a huge deal by any stretch, but I presume people will trip over this
20:38	technomancy	cemerick: try the format used by DATABASE_URL in heroku
20:38	cemerick	yes, sorry, been using postgresql://
20:38	technomancy	postgres://username:password@host:port/db
20:38	seancorfield	otherwise subprotocol://user:password@host:post/stuff should "just work" as far as i can tell from the code...
20:38	technomancy	I've never seen the query-param format used before
20:38	seancorfield	:port not :post
20:39	cemerick	used with oracle as well IIRC
20:39	technomancy	cemerick: you're saying postgres.heroku.com gave you that style?
20:39	technomancy	delegating to the underlying driver sounds fine though as long as it's a superset of URI styles supported
20:40	cemerick	technomancy: yes; "JDBC URL" provides me with the param style. "URL" style does not include the ssl option
20:40	cemerick	(which heroku's pg requires)
20:40	seancorfield	as long as (.getPath uri) returns the piece with the query params you should be fine tho'...
20:40	technomancy	oh, yuk
20:40	xeqi	I ran into similiar jdbc/url issues once when trying to create an in-memory derby db
20:41	xeqi	re: custom syntax
20:41	seancorfield	feel free to open a ticket in JIRA and attach a patch (for parse-properties-uri, I assume?)
20:42	cemerick	sure, I'll open a ticket; I don't think I'm the right one to write the patch, though I get the sneaking suspicion that what parse-properties-uri is doing is incompatible with what the postgres driver will be expecting.
20:42	cemerick	WIll definitely include URI examples.
20:43	cemerick	seancorfield: BTW, I hope all's well of late. :-)
20:46	fil512	what's a nice way to test (contains-substring "isgoofy" "goof")
20:46	fil512	?
20:46	fil512	there used to be a clojure.string substring?
20:46	fil512	but looks like that disappeared at 1.3
20:46	fil512	did it get replaced by something?
20:47	seancorfield	cemerick: it's been a bumpy couple of months for me in a number of ways...
20:47	rlb	does send-off still use a thread pool, or rather, does it re-use threads, or start a new thread each time?
20:48	seancorfield	according to the docs rlb send-off does not use a thread pool, just "a separate thread" ...
20:49	seancorfield	fil512: you can just call .substring on a string
20:49	ericthorsen1	''pmhgh-0p[]]''
20:49	fil512	like (.substring "foo" "o")
20:49	fil512	?
20:50	emezeske_	&((fn [s sub] (not= (.indexOf s sub) -1)) "isgoofy" "goof")
20:50	lazybot	⇒ true
20:50	emezeske_	fil512: ^
20:50	ericthorsen1	sorry…about the noise…son hicgjacked the keyboard
20:50	rlb	seancorfield: you mean (doc send-off)? That just says "in a separate thread", and since technomancy said "send-off uses an unbounded thread pool" I was wondering.
20:50	rlb
20:50	wmealing_	ericthorsen, i was trying to decypher that too.
20:51	wmealing_	was thinking it was a root pass for a moment.
20:53	fil512	the indexOf approach is too messy.
20:53	fil512	I like the .substring suggestion much better
20:54	fil512	I just need to figure out the syntax
20:54	seancorfield	(.substring some-str start-index) or (.substring some-str start-index end-index) i think?
20:54	emezeske_	fil512: I don't think that substring does what you want.
20:55	emezeske_	seancorfield: He wants to test whether a string contains a substring
20:55	seancorfield	oh, clojure.string/substring was a different function?
20:55	fil512	I found it
20:56	fil512	(.contains some-str substr)
20:56	fil512	that does what I want
20:56	fil512	much nicer syntax than indexOf
20:57	seancorfield	i see clojure.contrib.string/substring? was a test, much like contains?
20:57	seancorfield	er, .contains ?
20:57	fil512	I think clojure.contrib.string/substring? doesn't exist in 1.4 any more
20:57	fil512	It looks like it got removed in 1.2
20:58	fil512	Well to clarify, I think it's called clojure.string now and clojure.string doesn't contain substring? any more
20:58	fil512	But .contains works perfectly
20:58	seancorfield	a lot of old contrib went away in 1.3
20:58	fil512	(.contains some-str substr) does exactly what I'm looking for
21:19	dreish	,(+ 1 #=(+ 2 3))
21:19	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.>
21:20	dreish	Foo. Was hoping someone had figured out a safe way to enable that.
21:20	duck1123	Is there an easy way to turn the Set-Cookie from a ring response into a :cookies header for another request?
21:21	duck1123	Up to this point, I haven't actually been using HTTP, so any cookie features from clj-http or kin won't help me
21:23	duck1123	although, now that I mention it. clj-http might have what I need
21:38	gfredericks	dreish: it sounds like it ought to be possible
21:47	brainproxy	is it possible to combine tasks, e.g. so I can get the benefit of doing `lein ring server` and `lein swank`, such that my server is fired up and I've got a REPL running in the same process
21:55	xeqi	duck1123: https://github.com/xeqi/peridot or https://github.com/xeqi/kerodon do cookie-jar stuff
21:55	xeqi	if you want to stay in ring
21:55	brehaut	lein ring server, swank ?
21:59	brainproxy	brehaut: yes, just saw how I can chain with "," and also there is a `lein do ...` syntax for chaining that is under development apparently
21:59	brainproxy	however, the `swank` task doesn't get started as the `ring server` task blocks it
22:00	brainproxy	generally, it makes sense that one task won't start until another task finishes, but in a case like this it seems like there should be a way to have one run in conjunction with another one
22:00	technomancy	brainproxy: yes, there should be another higher-order task like `do` that does that
22:01	technomancy	but it would involve collapsing multiple eval-in-project calls into one
22:01	brainproxy	technomancy: but `do` isn't available in preview6, right?
22:01	technomancy	brainproxy: right; it was implemented last weekend
22:02	brainproxy	if I clone and build lein manually, and put the standalone jar thing in place manually, I should get the `do` thing?
22:12	technomancy	yeah but you can do chaining without `do` on preview6
22:12	technomancy	with-profile just won't apply across the whole chain
22:13	technomancy	and it doesn't solve your problem of composing eval-in-project calls
22:30	muhoo	heh, apropos to previous discussion about C++, here's what happens when lisp programmers write objective C: http://www.jwz.org/blog/2012/05/its-alive/
22:31	brainproxy	technomancy: ah i see, didn't read your previous comment carefully enough ... need a HO task "like do" in order to achieve what I want
22:32	technomancy	brainproxy: yeah. perhaps trampoline could just be improved so it works with do
22:32	technomancy	that might be better than introducing a new task
22:32	technomancy	since trampoline is already all about calculating what's needed to run and then running it afterwards.
22:33	brainproxy	in the short term, would you say my best option is to use lein ring, and manually insert the code to fire up the repl w/in that same process
22:34	technomancy	I usually write a -main function to launch jetty and run (def s (-main 5000)) as the first thing after swank launches
22:36	brainproxy	okay, so your using lein swank and then starting the server... i was thinking other way around to make easy use of the :auto-refresh? and :auto-reload? options that lein ring gives me
22:36	brainproxy	*you're
22:36	technomancy	maybe; I haven't used lein-ring
22:37	technomancy	I'm not sure what it offers if you have a 5-line -main function to launch jetty
22:38	brainproxy	i can probably extract those options and wrap them up in my own -main, yes... was just exploring the various avenues
22:39	eggsby	I've been pretty pleased how simple it is to work with jetty/netty w/ clojure
22:42	brehaut	technomancy: im curious, what are the 5 lines? i've been getting away with 3; just an atom and a run-jetty. do you have some more tricks in yours?
22:58	technomancy	brehaut: it's 7 lines for full compojure+session-secret: http://p.hagelb.org/7-line-main.html
22:59	technomancy	for this one I've been working on today
22:59	brehaut	technomancy: thanks
22:59	technomancy	np
23:01	brehaut	technomancy: system/getenv is nice and in hindsight and obvious thing to do.
23:02	amalloy	technomancy: i only realized just now lein-ring isn't your project. i first met it when i didn't know the clojure ecosystem well, and assumed lein meant it was yours. never re-evaluated
23:03	xeqi	I like enviorn for env stuff as well
23:03	Raynes	amalloy: Hahaha
23:03	xeqi	*environ
23:03	technomancy	heh; nice
23:03	technomancy	sneak peak: http://p.hagelb.org/deps-verify.html
23:04	amalloy	wait, are we making sneak peak jokes on purpose today?
23:04	amalloy	ah good
23:06	technomancy	xeqi: yeah I need to check that out
23:35	technomancy	any fedora users around want to help test the Leiningen package? http://hircus.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/important-milestone-in-support-for-clojure-in-fedora-reached/
23:42	alex_baranosky	any favorite ways to compare large nested maps ?
23:44	xumingmingv	alex_baranosky, directly use '='?
23:45	alex_baranosky	what?
23:45	clojurebot	what is 2d6
23:48	alandipert	alex_baranosky: like clojure.data/diff?
23:50	alex_baranosky	I'm going to try to writ e a little script to take two maps, nested sort them, stick the maps in temp files then pipe them to opendiff on my Mac
23:51	duck1123	over ssh?