#clojure – 2012-05-12

2012-05-12

00:01	TimMc	_KY_: Emacs or vim. Do it.
00:01	TimMc	Although apparently Eclipse support is getting pretty good?
00:01	_KY_	I need to do some GUI stuff...
00:02	echo-area	amalloy: I think there is a difference between `sieve' and what I pasted, though they all use lazy sequences. While without `doall', `sieve' recurs (perhaps very heavy) layered lazy sequences, what I post is only one-layer lazy sequence, recuring itself but not to another layer of lazy sequence.
00:03	amalloy	no, you (swap! inputs read-inputs), which is setting inputs to (keep f read-inputs)
00:05	Raynes	_KY_: What have you tried that you found 'unusable'?
00:06	_KY_	IntelliJ won't let you resize panels...
00:06	_KY_	Enclojure won't let me run hello world
00:06	Raynes	You made two wrong choices. If you need a big fat button-laden IDE, Eclipse is your best bet.
00:07	Raynes	Given recent developments in counterclockwise, I'd feel good saying that Eclipse makes a fine development environment for Clojure.
00:08	PeregrinePDX	I keep having issues with Eclipse but I haven't bothered to look enough to know it's not me
00:08	Raynes	Post issues to the issue tracker and/or ping lpetit, as he is often in here.
00:09	Raynes	I'm pretty sure Enclojure is pretty much dead, but they seem to keep a lovely site up just to mislead new Clojurians or something.
00:10	echo-area	amalloy: http://pastebin.com/t8b3H4s9 <-- Okay atom removed, but stack overflow still there.
00:10	amalloy	you're still calling (keep (keep (keep ...)))
00:10	amalloy	because sq is the result of a (keep) call, and you're calling (keep sq)
00:11	echo-area	Hmm, let me see..
00:34	echo-area	Before passing the last line, all lines of the input file is consumed and the corresponding items in `sq' are already realized. This part should not occupy stack frames. Problem arises at the last time realizing the lazy seq returned by `read-inputs', in this iteration `read-line-or-nil' returns nil, making `read-inputs' realize the rest of inputs, which is an empty sequence. What I can't explain is why this depends on the number of
00:34	echo-area	lines of the first file.
00:49	antares_	travis-ci.org now runs leiningen2 preview 4. Give it a try.
00:55	ivan	_KY_: which panels can't you resize in IntelliJ?
01:01	technomancy	enclojure has a really good icon
02:20	gaffo	So I've got a list of maps and I just want to get a list of the values for one key, say [{:k "v1"} {:k "v2"}], and I want ["v1" "v2"]. Any help would be appreciated
02:20	amalloy	(map :k ms)
02:21	gaffo	really? that seems backwards
02:22	gaffo	since it's normally ({:k "v"} :k) => "v"
02:22	amalloy	nope. :k is a function that takes a map and returns its value for the :k key
02:22	amalloy	what you pasted just now is acceptable, but not really "normal"
02:23	gaffo	so normally I should write (:k map-var) when I want key from map map-var?
02:23	gaffo	if I'm writing proper form?
02:24	amalloy	that's more normal. the guideline is to write (:k m) if you're getting a key from a "struct" or "object" sort of map, ie one with fixed/known keys, and (m k) or (get m k) if you're getting from a "real" map that could have any number of keys
02:25	gaffo	huh
02:25	gaffo	any reason for that?
02:25	gaffo	to treat maps and struct maps different?
02:26	amalloy	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7034803/idiomatic-clojure-map-lookup-by-keyword
02:27	gaffo	amalloy, thanks
02:30	gaffo	so if (k m) is faster on struct maps, why not use it on normal maps as well? I see that it's from the library coding standards. Any other reason?
02:31	amalloy	note i'm not talking about actual struct-map objects, here. just maps that you "treat" like structs
02:32	amalloy	if ti's a collection where you don't know what the keys are ahead of time, then you usually can't call (k m), because the key doesn't implement ILookup
02:32	amalloy	&(let [k "test", m {"test" 5, "data" 10"}] (k m)) ;; eg, this doesn't work
02:32	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string
02:33	amalloy	&(let [k "test", m {"test" 5, "data" 10}] (k m)) ;; eg, this doesn't work
02:33	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
02:33	gaffo	aah
02:33	gaffo	but if I'm using :'s for everything that doesn't matter?
02:33	amalloy	mmmm
02:33	gaffo	(not sure what the term for those is, in ruby, symbols)
02:34	amalloy	if you're using keywords for everything, it's pretty likely that your map is conceptually a struct
02:34	amalloy	clojure keywords are basically ruby symbols
02:34	gaffo	keywords, thanks
02:34	gaffo	terminology gets confused when you hit language 4 or 5
02:35	amalloy	clojure has symbols too, but they're not quite the same thing
02:35	gaffo	I read that maps with less than around 10 keys are basically struct maps in implementation
02:35	amalloy	well, they're basically arrays
02:36	gaffo	aah, so N < 10 is pretty fast to just walk it and find the right item?
02:36	amalloy	yes, faster than hashing and looking up in buckets, etc
02:36	gaffo	kk, makes sense.
02:36	gaffo	yeah, currently I'm extracting some stuff from json into 4 item hashes
02:37	gaffo	with keywords as keys
02:37	gaffo	this makes a lot more sense now
02:38	amalloy	great
02:38	amalloy	now go write a blog post about it, and then you'll really understand it
02:38	gaffo	or just be dead wrong. can I blame you for all errors :)
02:39	gaffo	"all errors are me not undestanding amalloy correctly"
02:39	amalloy	nod
02:40	gaffo	sweet
03:18	rbxbx	To bed with me, g'night #clojure.
03:18	Raynes	Thanks for the announcement, sir.
03:19	Raynes	Goodnight to you as well, my excitable friend.
03:20	rbxbx	Quite easy to obtain friendship and excitability around here, apparently ;)
03:20	rbxbx	Cheers Raynes, good night.
04:19	kral	namaste
05:40	bobry	uh, this is confusing -- there's lein-cljsbuild, lein-cljs and lein-clojurescript
05:40	bobry	which one should I use?
07:31	hyPiRion	Question: Will (= (zipmap (keys m) (vals m)) m) for all maps?
07:50	raek	hyPiRion: yes.
07:50	raek	keys and vals are guaranteed to use the same order
08:01	mduerksen	in clojure.core.logic i'm currently stating this: (fresh [c s d] (membero [c q s d 'Zebra] z)) - i would rather write this: (membero [_ q _ _ 'Zebra] z), but it doesnt work. is there something like this in core.logic?
08:09	hyPiRion	raek: Thanks.
08:09	hyPiRion	I couldn't find anything in the doc saying that maps have to deliver them in the same order.
08:43	ikitat	I've been spinning in circles trying to wrap my brain around a concept rhickey spoke about in two of his recorded "simplicity" talks.
08:44	ikitat	He talks about data and recommends not building domain objects, but instead choose sets, maps, lists, json, xml, etc.
08:45	ikitat	Now, I realize that lists, maps, sets are a very natural way of representation in clojure, but how could one apply this same concept when they need to work in a language like Java
08:45	jonaskoelker	ikitat: awkwardly :-P
08:45	ikitat	right?
08:45	clojurebot	flatten \|is\| rarely the right answer. What if your "base type" is a list
08:46	jonaskoelker	ikitat: yes. Java doesn't seem to have much in the way of handling those simple data structures, and to the extent it does it's hard to remember
08:46	ikitat	the best I can come up with is continue to build the domain objects, but maybe just implement them in terms of map
08:46	jonaskoelker	ikitat: well, you could just pass that map around to the data users
08:47	jonaskoelker	then have Util.mangleMap, Util.frobMap, Util.twiddleMap, etc.
08:47	rod	ikitat: i think the message to take away is don't assume you need to wrap everything up in domain objects. you're going to need to apply the principle on a language to language basis where it makes sense.
08:48	ikitat	well, it was interesting because he referenced not needing to create a new class every time, which seems to imply a Java-like language
08:49	gfredericks	ruby might be a language where it makes sense to say that and is easier to apply
08:49	jonaskoelker	python as well
08:49	ikitat	true, any dynamic language really
08:49	gfredericks	the rubyists like making new classes just for the sake of configging something
08:49	ikitat	so, that still leaves me to wonder if there is anything I can take from that concept and use it in Java
08:50	rod	yeah sure. but i think the point is don't start with the assumption "right lets create a class then munge my problem into it". if an array and a function will do then just use that, ya know?
08:50	jonaskoelker	ikitat: you _could_, though I think it's a lose-lose proposition
08:50	jonaskoelker	:P
08:50	jonaskoelker	then again, that would me my anti-java bias
08:51	ikitat	if anything, it sure will be fun to wait around for java to gain an ample amount of expressiveness
08:51	jonaskoelker	=)
08:52	jonaskoelker	"Oh look, I'm typing boilerplate code again. This must be java"
08:52	gfredericks	isn't that what scala is?
08:52	jonaskoelker	^^ +1 like
09:02	jonaskoelker	do you guys have any experience with haskell? If so, what do you make of it?
09:03	jonaskoelker	= f a b c
09:03	jonaskoelker	oops, nvm
09:04	cark	haskelll is lovely but it takes a whille to learn it
09:05	cark	i like how the type system is actually helping in creating stuff, rather than just being a "check your program" thing
09:05	ikitat	some, it has a fascinating set of features... my favorite is actually how the type system represents code with side effects
09:06	jonaskoelker	agreed, ikitat; how so, cark?
09:06	ikitat	quickcheck is a very cool idea too
09:06	cark	well
09:07	cark	for instance
09:07	ikitat	and type inference keeps you from longing for a dynamic language to some extent
09:07	cark	data Exp e = Val e \| Sum e e
09:08	cark	that single type says a lot
09:08	jonaskoelker	yeah, type inferencing is a near-must in any self-respecting language
09:08	cark	data Exp e = Val e \| Sum (Exp e) (Exp e)
09:08	jonaskoelker	scala's is decent, I find---I'm not cluttering my code with type annotations, but get the benefits
09:08	cark	i knew i shouldn't try without a compiler =)
09:09	cark	in a single type declaration you define a recursive type, that will direct your way of thinking at the problem, thats far and beyond mere type checking
09:10	jonaskoelker	yeah, agreed
09:10	cark	and btw i'd love to find a good way to emulate that in clojure, along with typeclasses
09:10	jonaskoelker	aren't typeclasses basically vtables?
09:11	cark	right you can do all sort of things, but to make it so it integrates well with the rest of your clojure code ...that's harder i think
09:11	jonaskoelker	dat be true
09:12	cark	particulary the dinstinction between a type and its constructors, i've been stumped on that
09:12	jonaskoelker	however, for tree-ish types, you can just represent your data as sexps?
09:12	cark	sure or maps
09:12	drguildo	does anyone here use clooj?
09:14	matessim	Light table is going to be HUGEEE for clojure :P
09:15	cark	matessim: depends on how it scales to large projects
09:15	matessim	not only, if clojure had a easy go-to IDE that's shiny
09:16	matessim	it would serve as a giant attractor to the clojure community.
09:16	matessim	for*
09:16	cark	true, and "easy to install on windows" tooling
09:18	jonaskoelker	emacs not shiny enough? :)
09:19	cark	good enough for me, but not everyone is ready to spend a week learning emacs, and setting it up for clojure
09:20	cark	considering that's only for testing that strange language with all the parens
09:20	drguildo	only a week?
09:21	cark	right i may be understating a bit =)
09:22	jonaskoelker	what---all you do is press escape meta alt control shift, then you're ready to go :D
09:22	cark	haha indeed
09:23	jonaskoelker	fun thing to do: set up your caps lock key to be all those mods at the same time :-)
09:23	jonaskoelker	then it'd be the emacs key
09:25	cark	to go back to haskell, what i really like about it is all those nice concepts originating there
09:25	cark	monads, arrows and so on
09:26	cark	i'd love to see a good implementation fo arrows in clojure
09:26	cark	with some kind of clojuresque port of the arrow notation
09:27	cark	which looks like non-trivial to me
09:40	jasonjckn	cark: there's an implementation of monads in clojure
09:40	cark	yes =)
09:51	beffbernard	How would you go about validating a sexp against a BNF like grammar?
09:53	cark	use a parser ? one that's abstract enough to take any kind of state instead of just sequences of character
09:54	bobry	is it possible to make cljsbuild report errors in a human readable way? currently all I see is a Java stack trace ending with 'Caused by: java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )'
09:55	bobry	having a filename and a line number would help :)
09:55	beffbernard	cark: I technically don't need a parser.. It's already in a lisp datastructure.. I just want to validate my sexp is valid against a grammar
09:55	jasonjckn	beffbernard: convert the SEXP to string, then use BNF grammar is used to parse any string
09:56	beffbernard	jasonjckn: antlr?
09:56	jasonjckn	beffbernard: is that a parser? there's plenty to choose from
09:56	jasonjckn	beffbernard: if you want a clojure parser I can list a few
09:56	beffbernard	yes, thanks
09:57	cark	beffbernard: validating some kind of state with a grammer is what a parser does
09:57	cark	grammar =/
09:57	cark	parsing is not about strings and characters
09:58	jasonjckn	beffbernard: i've always wanted to use this, I think it would be my favorite one: https://github.com/cgrand/parsley
09:59	jasonjckn	beffbernard: i've used this a lot, it matches haskell's parsec api quite closely https://github.com/jasonjckn/clarsec
09:59	jasonjckn	beffbernard: but it's not documented, and wouldn't be as fast as parsley, it's a combinator parser
10:00	jasonjckn	however, at least you don't get grammar conflicts
10:00	beffbernard	jasonjckn: cool.. not being fast is ok.. correctness is what I'm after
10:01	beffbernard	I'm actually interoping with a haskell data type declarations
10:01	beffbernard	with Haskel*
10:01	beffbernard	Haskell*
10:02	jasonjckn	if I had to guess both libraries are about the same in terms of correctness and interop (whch I haven't a clue how to do)
10:02	jasonjckn	beffbernard: if you think in terms of BNF parsley is probably better
10:02	jasonjckn	it's an lr1 parser ish
10:03	jasonjckn	clarsec's code will probably be a bit shorter, and reads more like english
10:03	jasonjckn	beffbernard: what are you doing?
10:03	jasonjckn	beffbernard: what's the language like
10:04	jasonjckn	beffbernard: if you need to interop with haskell, why not just write the parser in haskell?
10:05	beffbernard	I don't know if i'm allowed to tell you the details, but it's a DSL for a particular domain to interact with an engine we're writing
10:05	jasonjckn	haskell parsers are more mature than clojure's
10:05	beffbernard	vague I know
10:05	beffbernard	The engine is written in Haskell and the webapp is clojure
10:05	beffbernard	and they communicate through this DSL language
10:06	jasonjckn	so you're sending ascii over the wire?
10:06	beffbernard	sort of
10:07	jasonjckn	I think you can parse sexp directly with clarsec
10:07	jasonjckn	but you might have to change the code a little bit, i've never tried to do that
10:08	cark	beffbernard: here is a very simple parser combinator library that should work for parsing just about anything, should be useable as a base for parsing sexp https://gist.github.com/2666682
10:08	jasonjckn	do you know how combinator parsers work?
10:08	beffbernard	Not so much
10:09	jasonjckn	beffbernard: do you know how monads work?
10:09	cark	monads are not necessary to make a parsor combinator, but they sure help =)
10:09	beffbernard	Low-level no.. but I use them day to day
10:10	gfredericks	didn't flatland/useful have an unpartial function?
10:12	hyPiRion	So, while on the topic of parsers - Have anyone found a good lexer for Clojure?
10:13	jasonjckn	beffbernard: well, if I were in your position with an sexp, i'd use combinator parsers
10:13	beffbernard	jasonjckn: ok
10:13	jasonjckn	beffbernard: the only library i've seen with documentation is http://brehaut.net/blog/2011/fnparse_introduction
10:14	jasonjckn	beffbernard: i'm very familiar with clarsec, but there's no documentation, i can get you started if you'd like, but i can't write a tutorial for you :)
10:14	jasonjckn	beffbernard: if you send something to parse, i'll try to write a parser
10:15	beffbernard	Want to talk through some other venue?
10:15	jasonjckn	can you PM?
10:15	beffbernard	Yup
10:42	wkmanire	Good morning.
11:17	_KY_	What's an efficient way to store a tree with arbitrary number of children at each node?
11:20	tmciver	_KY_: how about just use a map as a node with key :children whose value is a collection of nodes?
11:21	_KY_	I thought of that...
11:22	_KY_	But what if some nodes are huge sub-trees?
11:22	_KY_	Can the map handle that?
11:23	tmciver	_KY_: Sure, especially if you can construct it lazily.
11:26	_KY_	But then how can I store say a number in each node?
11:27	_KY_	Oh maybe store it at index 0 of the collection of children
11:27	progo	umm, {:value 4 :children [...]} ?
11:28	_KY_	progo: but then each node must have a list of children... even if null
11:29	progo	'I have zero children, their names are []'.
11:29	progo	empty seq is a valid seq.
11:29	_KY_	Yes but it doubles the map size....
11:30	tmciver	_KY_: here's a function that builds up a tree with key children:
11:30	tmciver	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2696
11:30	xeqi	&(:children {:value 3})
11:30	lazybot	⇒ nil
11:30	tmciver	the get-children method should create nodes in whatever fashion you want.
11:31	marmae_	anyone knows why the swank repl inside emacs keeps telling me that it doesn't know the doc function?
11:32	tmciver	marmae_: unfortunately, you must (use 'clojure.repl) first.
11:33	_KY_	What is the key of that map?
11:33	marmae_	tmciver: thanks!
11:33	_KY_	:Children ?
11:33	tmciver	marmae_: no problem
11:35	tmciver	_KY_: in the build-tree function? It's :children
11:36	_KY_	&(:children {:value 3}) <--- the outer layer is just a list Ision't it?
11:36	lazybot	⇒ nil
11:37	_KY_	So that map is already addressable by children
11:37	tmciver	_KY_: that was just an example what happens when you try to get the children from a map that doesn't have any.
11:39	_KY_	I see...
11:40	_KY_	But I thought a map must be a sequence of key-value pairs?
11:41	tmciver	_KY_: a tree structure using maps might look something like: {:value 3 :children [{:value 2} {:value 1}]}
11:42	tmciver	_KY_: it's tree of three nodes; one root node that has two child nodes.
11:42	_KY_	I see...
11:42	_KY_	Does it matter if some values are very big in size?
11:43	_KY_	They would be heavily nested... right?
11:43	tmciver	_KY_: The child nodes do not have children of their own but they could have had children keys with an empty collection.
11:43	_KY_	Right...
11:45	tmciver	_KY_: heavily nested? It depends upon your data.
11:45	_KY_	The tree may grow in size...
11:45	wtetzner	_KY_: yes, if you add more stuff to the tree, it will get bigger
11:46	_KY_	Then you'd have a map where certain values are particularly big in size...
11:46	_KY_	I was wondering if that'd be a problem
11:46	tmciver	_KY_: no more a problem than building a tree data structure in some other way.
11:47	_KY_	But how can the map be addressed in constant time?
11:47	_KY_	If its element sizes are uneven?
11:47	wtetzner	the value stored in the map is just a pointer
11:48	_KY_	I see...
11:48	_KY_	Ok, thanks a lot of, ... it's getting more like C++ talk...
11:48	_KY_	=)
11:48	wtetzner	all java types that are not primitives (int, long, boolean, etc.) are reference types
11:49	wtetzner	meaning you don't copy them when passing them around
11:49	wtetzner	you always refer to the one instance of it
11:49	tmciver	_KY_: you can never access nodes of a tree data structure in constant time; it's a function of how many levels you have.
11:50	wtetzner	but you can access the keys in a given node in constant time
11:50	_KY_	Yeah... I mean for a single map
11:50	wtetzner	well, near-constant
11:54	_KY_	So the maps have 2 keys, :value and :children?
11:55	_KY_	That is double the size of a map with a single key I think
11:56	metellus	yeah, but the size of that particular map will be the same regardless of how many children it has
12:00	_KY_	I see...
12:00	_KY_	Is it inefficient to grow the size of a vector, as opposed to a list?
12:03	technomancy	growing vectors is fine as long as you add at the end
12:03	_KY_	That's good...
12:03	_KY_	What's the reason behind that? =)
12:04	_KY_	They are allocated blocks of memory in advance I guess
12:05	matessim	Did you guys know Steven Spielberg directed Pinky and the brain?
12:09	tmciver	matessim: Ha! Really? I knew there was a reason I liked that show.
12:10	matessim	Yep, i found it fascinating too lol.
12:10	matessim	(This fact and the show)
12:10	gfredericks	_KY_: it's because of the fixed-size array chunks that make up the underlying trees
12:11	gfredericks	_KY_: it's a performance tradeoff; this video discusses why I believe: http://blip.tv/clojure/daniel-spiewak-extreme-cleverness-functional-data-structures-in-scala-5970151
12:14	_KY_	Steven Spielberg's daddy was one of the early developers of UNIX
12:23	twhume	aloha. Is there a really good tutorial for dummies on making lazy sequences? All the ones I've seen concentrate on the fibonacci sequence as an example, but it's a little different to what I'm after. I'd like to create a sequence of the form "A", "B", "C", "AA", "AB", "AC", "BA", "BB", "BC", "CA", "CB", "CC", "AAA" ... (i.e. breadth-first traversal of a tree)
12:35	wolkefm	I'm attempting to set up clojure mode for emacs - however I'm slightly confused about placing clojure-mode.el in ~/.emacs.d/
12:36	wolkefm	how is this a directory? I see no record of it anywhere - and I can't create it due to begining with period
12:38	rlb	wolkefm: I'm not certain that it's OK to put arbitrary files in .emacs.d. You can put your own code in .emacs.d/init.el, but emacs itself uses other files in that directory (i.e. .gtkrc, backup files, etc.).
12:38	rlb	wolkefm: what OS?
12:39	wolkefm	windows
12:39	wolkefm	xp
12:39	rlb	via cygwin, or native emacs?
12:40	wolkefm	I simply used add folder via the desktop envrioment
12:40	bobry	does anyone here have clojurescript in production?
12:40	wolkefm	well, fialed to rather
12:40	rlb	I mean are you running cygwin emacs or a native emacs?
12:40	wolkefm	native
12:42	rlb	I'm not really sure how that works. If it helps, in linux, you'd normally just edit your ~/.emacs file (wherever that is for windows), and add a directory to the load-path, and then put clojure-mode.el (and whatever else you like) in there.
12:42	rlb	s/linux/most other emacs flavors/
12:43	rlb	i.e. (push "/home/rlb/lib/emacs" load-path) or whatever.
12:47	rlb	wolkefm: check out the emacs info pages appendix G (wrt windows). Looks like ".emacs" should work fine (though the windows gui itself might not let you create it).
12:48	rlb	(and it says emacs also supports _ as an alternative to . on windows -- since .foo files are sometimes hard to create)
12:49	wolkefm	googling now. I think I ran across this earlier, supposedly a default file instead of .emacs - however I couldn't find one (or the init file that was also mentioned - though could be totally seperate docs - lemme check)
12:50	rlb	wolkefm: .emacs won't exist until you create it.
12:51	rlb	wolkefm: if you just fire up emacs and ask it to edit (via C-x C-f) ~/.emacs, I suspect you'll get the right thing.
12:51	rlb	and emacs will probably let you create the file, even if the windows gui won't.
12:51	rlb	Alternately, create ~/_emacs.
12:52	wolkefm	thank you - I'll let you know how it goes
13:17	michaelr525	hello
13:18	eggsby	hello michaelr525
13:19	michaelr525	what's up?
13:20	eggsby	working on some toy problem for practice, you?
13:23	michaelr525	i'm working on a pinterest clone of sorts
13:23	michaelr525	not my day job of course, just a clojure project for fun and profit\
13:34	muhoo	$seen cemerick
13:34	lazybot	cemerick was last seen quitting 3 days and 23 hours ago.
13:34	fliebel	How do I run cKanren? More specifically, once in the petit repl, how do I load/import/require it?
13:35	Licenser	what once has been seen can nevrer been unseen! http://chicksontheright.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/what-has-been-seen-cannot-be-unseen.jpg
13:39	robertstuttaford	is this worth grabbing? https://peepcode.com/products/functional-programming-with-clojure
13:43	tomoj	that's what I started with, and I liked it, but the video is presumably very out of date, though the code is only somewhat out of date
13:43	robertstuttaford	thanks
13:45	uvtc	The lein2 preview 4 announcement says that it now uses Clojure 1.4.0 internally, but here's my output from running lein the first time: <https://www.refheap.com/paste/2697>. It's grabbing Clojure 1.3.0.
13:45	uvtc	In fact, the Clojure 1.2.1 pom is mentioned in there as well, but the jar for it does not appear to be downloaded.
13:49	uvtc	Whoops. Ran out of time. Will post to the ML about it.
14:08	wolkefm	I've installed leiningen via .bat file downloading the corresponding .jar. Is there any way to get this to work without placing it in my $PATH?
14:09	wolkefm	I'm working off my portable hard drive on a university computer at the moment and I can't edit the $PATH
14:12	wolkefm	the wording 'place it in your $path (I like to use ~/bin/lein/) make me think that adding it as an enviroment varible (something I only vaugely remember) isn't the correct interpertation. idk thoughts anyone
14:12	wolkefm	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen - also link.
14:17	wolkefm	nevermind - Need to get some sleep and pick this up when I get up
14:26	fliebel	Does anyone know how to compute the sum of a list in cKanren?
14:38	ibdknox	Anyone got a cool algorithm that has a naive (slow) implementation and a fast one that might be fun to visualize? I have a neat idea for a Light Table demo
14:39	matessim	ibdknox=Chris Granger?
14:39	matessim	:O
14:39	ibdknox	it does :)
14:40	matessim	I was totally awe-inspired by you're Kickstarter, + I discovered Bret Victor through it
14:40	pushp0p	ooh light table demo?
14:40	matessim	And by you, lol.
14:40	ibdknox	haha thanks :)
14:40	blastura	hi, I'm looking for a nice way to loop through all the number in an int, ex: 2345 -> (map myfunc [2 3 4 5]), how can I split an int to a sequence of every number?
14:41	ibdknox	pushp0p: yeah, gotta try to get up to 300k ;) It's going to be a really cool demo
14:41	xeqi	already implemented or just looking for ideas?
14:42	ibdknox	xeqi: a lot of it is implemented. I came up with this algorithm thing late last night though, so looking for ideas on that :)
14:42	raek	blastura: one way is to turn the number into a string and then turn each character into a number
14:43	matessim	shuffling algorithms perhaps?
14:43	matessim	naive one and Knuth-fisher?
14:43	matessim	-Yates*
14:43	matessim	to ibdknox
14:44	ibdknox	that could work :)
14:44	raek	,(for [d (str 2345)] (Character/digit d 10)])
14:44	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: ]>
14:44	beffbernard	I would visualize a sort.. O(n^2) vs O(log n)
14:44	raek	,(for [d (str 2345)] (Character/digit d 10))
14:44	clojurebot	(2 3 4 5)
14:44	ibdknox	beffbernard: yeah I was thinking something like that as well
14:44	raek	then you can map over that sequence
14:44	blastura	raek: yea but that seems a bit ugly
14:45	ibdknox	though the point is less the algorithm itself and more of what if you could see a graph of performance characteristics in real-time between two different implementations :)
14:45	blastura	raek: thanks anyway I'll use that for now
14:45	raek	blastura: what is ugly about it?
14:45	ibdknox	actually
14:45	blastura	reak: just though there might be another way without converting to a string
14:45	ibdknox	showing the difference between map and pmap would work really well for that
14:46	ibdknox	as the advantage is based on the size of the operation
14:46	raek	blastura: well, digits is a formatting concept
14:47	matessim	ibdknox, is the IDE meant to be full screen, or are you just filming like that? If it isn't it would be nice if you'd enable such a feature, immersive coding is a pretty important addition IMO.
14:47	beffbernard	$491 until 200k.. sweet
14:47	ibdknox	matessim: it's all fullscreen
14:47	ibdknox	seems like a waste otherwise
14:47	matessim	591$
14:47	matessim	^ +1
14:47	ibdknox	though it doesn't have to be
14:47	beffbernard	hhehe typo
14:48	ibdknox	I'll give you guys a hint
14:48	matessim	how does Kickstarter work exactly? do they release all the money immidietly or do they need to be given progress reports etc and follow up on these things?
14:48	matessim	(to you)
14:49	ibdknox	in Clojure, macros make it very easy to create DSLs. What if there was a platform that made it trivially simple to build domain specific tools? :)
14:49	ibdknox	matessim: once the time runs out all the money is transfered
14:49	matessim	okay :)
14:49	matessim	thanks.
14:49	beffbernard	ibdknox: in clojure or any supported language?
14:49	ibdknox	beffbernard: any :)
14:50	ibdknox	beffbernard: to prove my point, I'll be using python
14:50	beffbernard	that would be sweet
14:51	weavejester	ibdknox: Did you notice I added a make-route function in Compojure 1.1.0-SNAPSHOT ?
14:51	ibdknox	weavejester: oo, I did not
14:51	weavejester	ibdknox: If that removes your need to eval in Noir, I can release 1.1.0 fairly soon.
14:52	ibdknox	weavejester: I think it does
14:53	weavejester	ibdknox: When you have some code up in Noir, let me know and I'll push out 1.1.0 :)
14:53	weavejester	And for now, I need to do some shopping...
14:53	ibdknox	enjoy :)
14:58	mtkoan	how can i transform this: [1 ([2 3] [4 5])] into this: [1 [2 3] [4 5]] ?
14:59	jasonjckn	mtkoan (juxt first (comp first second))
14:59	Raynes	That's pretty specific.
15:00	mtkoan	jasonjckn: thanks
15:00	mtkoan	Raynes: yes it is?
15:02	dnolen	ibdknox: $91 away
15:02	ibdknox	that was quick
15:02	ibdknox	lol
15:03	ibdknox	ah someone kicked in $500 :)
15:03	Raynes	ibdknox: No way it'll ever hit $300k.
15:03	ibdknox	watch me ;)
15:03	Raynes	You're a dirty greedy skank.
15:04	mtkoan	oh I see what you mean, too specific.. yes I need [1 ([2 3] [4 5] ... [n n+1])]
15:04	ibdknox	Raynes: haha
15:04	Raynes	:p
15:05	jasonjckn	,(apply vector [1 ([2 3] [4 5])] )
15:05	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Key must be integer>
15:05	jasonjckn	,(apply vector [1 '([2 3] [4 5])] )
15:05	clojurebot	[1 ([2 3] [4 5])]
15:06	alexbaranosky	seems like there is every reason in the world to imagine it would get to $300k
15:06	jasonjckn	,(apply #(apply vector %) [1 '([2 3] [4 5])] )
15:06	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: sandbox$eval80$fn>
15:06	Raynes	alexbaranosky: I guess if he can get a bunch of people to throw 10ks into the mix.
15:07	Raynes	I don't see it getting there otherwise.
15:07	ibdknox	Raynes: I haven't hit the python crowd yet
15:07	jasonjckn	,(apply #(apply vector %&) [1 '([2 3] [4 5])] )
15:07	clojurebot	[1 ([2 3] [4 5])]
15:07	Raynes	But Jesus, it hit its goal.
15:07	Raynes	Can we be happy about that?
15:07	lynaghk	ibdknox: High five!
15:07	Raynes	Well, hasn't quite hit its goal.
15:07	Raynes	Give it 30 minutes.
15:07	lynaghk	Raynes: Anti-high five!
15:08	alexbaranosky	yeah congrats ... meeting the goal is eminent
15:08	ibdknox	:)
15:08	jasonjckn	mtkoan: (let [[a [& b]] [1 '([2 3] [4 5])]] (cons a b)) good enough
15:08	jasonjckn	ibdknox: how many people are you working with?
15:08	Raynes	Done.
15:08	yawnt	LIGHTTABLE IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
15:08	ibdknox	jasonjckn: right now, it's just me. My co-founder is finishing school
15:08	Raynes	Goal is met on kickstarter.
15:09	jonasen	ibdknox: congrats!
15:09	yawnt	just kiddin
15:09	yawnt	looks promising
15:09	yawnt	:D
15:09	lynaghk	Raynes: I'm using tentacles to figure out who I should grab coffee with while I'm in Palo Alto next week. Nice library, thanks.
15:09	Raynes	lynaghk: Bahaha, man, that's all I ever wrote it for.
15:09	jasonjckn	ibdknox: pretty sweet deal then :-P 200k to found a company
15:09	jasonjckn	congrats
15:10	alexbaranosky	lynaghk, did it say me Kevin?
15:10	Raynes	You're no fun.
15:10	lynaghk	alexbaranosky: yes, it does list you as in the Bay Area. Want to grab coffee?
15:10	mtkoan	jasonjckn: thank you much.. have to look at this abit ;)
15:10	Raynes	alexbaranosky: Didn't we spend like a hour arguing with you about the merits of for vs map at the Conj party?
15:11	alexbaranosky	I work right next to Palo Alto... I think my motel right now might actually be technically in Palo Alto
15:11	alexbaranosky	Raynes, yes
15:12	alexbaranosky	my heuristic for when to use 'for' is as soon as the funny symbols becomes more than you'd get with 'for' hehe
15:12	ibdknox	jasonjckn: it'll certainly be more than that :)
15:12	ibdknox	jasonjckn: hopefully 3-4 more
15:12	jasonjckn	ibdknox: 3-400k?
15:12	jasonjckn	ibdknox: or people?
15:12	ibdknox	jasonjckn: people
15:12	alexbaranosky	oops, meant to say use for when too many funny symbols with map
15:12	dnolen	ibdknox: congrats!
15:13	ibdknox	dnolen: thanks :)
15:13	alexbaranosky	lynaghk, I just moved out here a week ago to work at Runa
15:13	ibdknox	dnolen: thanks for helping spread the word
15:13	jasonjckn	ibdknox: ah that's more dollar value then :)
15:13	ibdknox	jasonjckn: yeah, that runs out quick ;)
15:14	fliebel	What? whoa! congrats, ibdknox! If I ever get a credit card...
15:15	ibdknox	haha
15:17	ibdknox	I'm just excited that hopefully I'll get to realize all of the potential here
15:17	ibdknox	there's so much room for our tools to grow
15:19	lynaghk	ibdknox: I'm definitely excited to see what you guys come up with. "Bad Relationship" isn't the best way to describe me & emacs, but it's the first way that comes to mind.
15:19	ibdknox	haha
15:19	ibdknox	actually for the kind of work you do, I think it's especially well-suited
15:19	jasonjckn	i actually have no qualms with emacs for clojure development
15:19	lynaghk	Light Table re: visualization, you mean?
15:19	ibdknox	lynaghk: yeah
15:20	ibdknox	sorry that was really ambiguous lol
15:20	jasonjckn	Sometimes when interactive developing, even after running C-c C-k it either falsely fails to compile, or falsely succeeds in compiling
15:21	lynaghk	ibdknox: yep. A year or two back I integrated ProtoVis with Ymacs, but it was just a little hack. An extensible editor on the web platform would be boss (assuming I can jack it into my brain as directly as emacs)
15:21	Madsy	Meta-question: How long does it usually take to get a post accepted to the Google Group? It's gone 2 hours, so I wonder if I triggered the spam filter or whatnot :)
15:21	jasonjckn	That issue would be nice to solve, but it's very tricky
15:21	Madsy	been*
15:21	dnolen	Madsy: have you posted before?
15:21	Madsy	dnolen: No, this is my first post.
15:22	dnolen	Madsy: first posts are moderated, it's the weekend so don't expect it to appear soon.
15:22	Madsy	Okay, thanks.
15:22	Raynes	ibdknox: Fly me out to San Francisco.
15:23	ibdknox	lol you're just moving to LA aren't you :p
15:23	scottj	ibdknox: are you quitting day job?
15:23	Raynes	ibdknox: Well, yeah, but not right now. I can come to SF. :p
15:23	ibdknox	scottj: did that a couple months ago
15:23	Raynes	scottj: He quit that ages ago.
15:27	scottj	ibdknox: http://appjs.org/ maybe just in time for light table
15:29	ibdknox	scottj: yeah, I saw thought. Unfortunately it requires node to already be installed
15:30	ibdknox	scottj: right now I'm just messing around in my little mac-only wrapper :)
15:30	scottj	ibdknox: btw there is macgap but don't think it ever became crossplatform
15:31	ibdknox	scottj: huh, hadn't seen that
15:33	lynaghk	Raynes: Can I ask tentacles to abstract away the pagination within a lazy seq?
15:35	franks	ibdknox: congrats with getting the funding!!!
15:35	ibdknox	franks: thanks :)
15:40	Raynes	lynaghk: Yeah, someone added it a few days ago.
15:41	Raynes	lynaghk: I haven't documented it yet, look at the last few commits.
15:41	Raynes	lynaghk: Should be an :all-pages option.
15:43	lynaghk	Raynes: cool, thanks.
15:48	jasonjckn	200k on the money
15:49	progo	:)
15:50	progo	feeling compelled to switch my backing to $50 for early access
15:54	Borkdude	I would like to know how the t-shirt is going to look ;)
15:55	Raynes	A lamp sitting on a coffee table.
15:55	Raynes	Obviously.
15:57	TimMc	Didn't g-somebody come up with a neat design?
16:00	muhoo	ibdknox: congratulations, hope you can ship soon :-)
16:01	Borkdude	Raynes: maybe a t-shirt with lamp built in (batteries included)
16:07	Borkdude	ibdknox: sssSSSsss noises… you're going to program a snake game as a first demo… cool :P
16:07	ibdknox	haha
16:07	ibdknox	:D
16:12	marmae_	did anyone of you read "land of lisp"?
16:12	marmae_	is it a good book?
16:13	Madsy	It's been a few days, so I'll ask again. What is the best approach to get third-party libraries exposed to Clojure and leiningen? I have a more recent library than what's available at Clojars and Maven. Also the library is jOGL, and it uses JNI and hence depend on platform-speciic libraries.
16:13	Borkdude	madsy: you could use a local jar?
16:13	fliebel	marmae_: I don't know, but I imagine 0x10c will look like the video :)
16:14	zanes	,expt
16:14	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: expt in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
16:14	zanes	What's the correct way to get access to expt in 1.4.0?
16:14	Madsy	Borkdude: Although that would make distribution a bit harder, yes I could. But how do I prepend the paths to the classpath of my leiningen project?
16:14	Borkdude	Madsy: https://github.com/kumarshantanu/lein-localrepo
16:15	Madsy	Borkdude: And lein-localrepo works with JNI-libraries?
16:16	dreish	zanes: Are you referring to exponentiation? That would be (Math/pow x y)
16:16	marmae_	fliebel: har har ;)
16:16	zanes	dreish: I was indeed. It looks like there are clojure-specific implementations in contrib / other places, so I was confused.
16:16	devn	Raynes: what's the deal with your jerk response to the URI lib announcement?
16:17	zanes	dreish: Thanks!
16:17	marmae_	first time i heard of it, tbh.
16:17	Borkdude	Madsy: I don't know, is it a normal jar? I never used JNI, never needed to
16:17	Raynes	devn: Eh?
16:18	devn	Raynes: exactly what i said. I think your response is nasty. asking "how on earth" and so on. it's just a jerk response.
16:18	Madsy	Borkdude: I have different jars for different platforms. jogl.all.x86.linux.jar etc
16:18	Raynes	devn: I gave him suggestions after reading his code. I'm not going to apologize for that. Also, if you're here to berate me, can you do it in PM so as to not bother the channel? :\
16:18	Borkdude	Madsy: you could also try #leiningen for more suggestions
16:18	Madsy	Borkdude: Thanks
16:18	devn	Random Person: "Hello I created a library." Raynes: "Your codes are disgusting. I will rant about them publicly instead of submitting a pull request."
16:19	devn	Raynes: You berated him publicly.
16:19	devn	So you deserve the same.
16:19	Raynes	...
16:19	Raynes	I didn't say a single thing that sounded like "Your code is disgusting."
16:19	Raynes	Given his code, I thought he was relatively new to the language, so I figured a few suggestions would be helpful. I'd happily send a pull request if he asked me to. I was honestly curious about his usage of association lists.
16:20	devn	Raynes: your phrasing on a few things did not translate well to email.
16:20	Raynes	Also, wtetzner is in this channel, so if I offended him, I'd kindly ask him personally to tell me so and I will certainly apologize for anything that actually did offend him.
16:20	devn	"How on earth", "never (use) without :only"
16:20	devn	ive seen people (use) without :only on plenty of occassions, yourself included
16:21	Raynes	And that makes it okay?
16:21	devn	i dont disagree with what you were saying, but i disagree with how public it was, and how you presented it
16:21	ibdknox	eh
16:21	Raynes	Whatever.
16:21	Raynes	Leave me alone, please.
16:21	Raynes	:\
16:21	ibdknox	he posted on a public list
16:22	ibdknox	it's bound to be public
16:22	devn	So submit a pull request and don't be a dick.
16:22	devn	It's simple.
16:22	Raynes	I also disagree that I worded anything in a degrading tone.
16:22	devn	agree to disagree then
16:22	technomancy	~gentlemen
16:22	clojurebot	You can't fight in here. This is the war room.
16:22	devn	lol
16:22	fliebel	devn: Try reading it again while imagining Raynes smiling and looking cherfull. See if it still sounds ugly.
16:23	ivan	note the lack of "How on earth"
16:23	ivan	oh, "Why"
16:24	ibdknox	eh, if he has a solid position then he should be unfazed either way
16:24	Borkdude	I read the post just now and it seems like good suggestions to me, I wouldn't be offended by it
16:24	ibdknox	yeah
16:25	devn	ibdknox: nerds are temperamental. take care on the list of not scaring new people off. that's where i'm coming from.
16:25	dreish	Being newbie-friendly is a good thing to be mindful of. Perhaps a friendly reminder would be in order once in a while. Probably not an attack like "How could you be so rude!", though.
16:25	Raynes	I honestly thought he was relatively new to the language and would benefit from suggestions rather than just a pull request. As a matter of fact, I told him his library was awesome a few minutes before I wrote that post here in this channel.
16:25	Raynes	But I've been known to be a dick by accident before, so shrug. Sorry if so.
16:25	ibdknox	devn: sure, but berating without context is just as bad
16:26	rlb	===(((tahtwasfairlyimpressive)))===
16:26	ibdknox	wat
16:26	rlb	oops
16:26	rlb	wrong window
16:26	devn	lol
16:26	fliebel	can't. resist. http://xkcd.com/481/
16:26	ibdknox	http://i.imgur.com/04937.png
16:26	Raynes	devn: Also, if you happen across a piece of code in a library of mine that people use or code that I've recently written, by all means, alert me immediately so I can fix that crap!
16:26	zanes	dreish: Ah, I was hoping for something like expt from http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/math-api.html -- i.e. returns exact number if the base is exact and the power is an integer?
16:26	lazybot	Nooooo, that's so out of date! Please see instead http://clojure.github.com/clojure-contrib/math-api.html and try to stop linking to rich's repo.
16:26	devn	"Faps_Into_Socks"
16:27	dreish	zanes: There must be something like that out there, but I don't know where. I've written it a few times just for fun.
16:27	devn	Raynes: im not trying to attack you, im just trying to defend the realm. i care too much sometimes. sorry about that.
16:28	Madsy	Borkdude: I think I have an idea what to do now, thank you. I can either make poms for the individual platforms, or repackage jOGL and find the correct libraries at runtime.
16:29	wtetzner	Raynes: no problem dude
16:29	wtetzner	i didn't have a problem with your post
16:30	Raynes	devn: I didn't take the :use stuff as an attack. technomancy is certainly not shy about telling me when I use :use without :only. He is a freak about that stuff. :p
16:30	wtetzner	except for the fact that you were wrong about my use of association lists :)
16:30	ivan	wtetzner: way to chill a flamewar, man
16:30	devn	hahaha
16:31	zanes	dreish: It's apparently in https://github.com/clojure/math.numeric-tower
16:31	Raynes	wtetzner: I was curious about that!
16:31	zanes	dreish: But I couldn't find that library with lein search. Hm.
16:31	Raynes	wtetzner: Got time to walk me through how you're using them?
16:31	Borkdude	devn: I have found the clojure community friendlier than others for newcomers, it's good to keep that etiquette, agree
16:31	wtetzner	Raynes: sure
16:32	devn	Borkdude: we gotta be careful or people will just start posting: "I DISLIKE THE WAY YOU INDENTED YOUR FUNCTION. GO DIE IN A FIRE."
16:32	devn	</slippery-slope-fallacy>
16:32	wtetzner	often query strings are used in ways that aren't map-like
16:32	dreish	zanes: That looks nice, but a little dated.
16:32	wtetzner	for example, sometimes people use them as a mini-language
16:32	Borkdude	devn: I have found people in CL sometimes be grumpy or just showing off without really helping
16:32	wtetzner	which means keys can appear multiple times
16:32	devn	Borkdude: yeah. that's why i left CL.
16:32	Raynes	Ah!
16:32	wtetzner	and the order in which they appear has an effect
16:32	Raynes	That's a good point.
16:33	dreish	zanes: Though it uses protocols and datatypes, so that's probably modern enough. Just the fact that it hasn't been touched in 7 months is a little worrying.
16:33	wtetzner	i was also careful to make sure that when turning a query string into an alist and turning it back into a query string
16:33	wtetzner	you'd get the same query string back
16:33	wtetzner	so x=y&x&&x=&=&=y
16:33	wtetzner	could safely be passed through unchanged
16:34	zanes	dreish: 'src' was touched a month ago? Anyway, I can't figure out how to install it with lein.
16:34	wtetzner	since a lot of sites rely on poorly constructed urls
16:34	Raynes	wtetzner: Okay, that makes total sense.
16:34	Raynes	:)
16:35	technomancy	HTTP headers are the same way; it's super annoying
16:35	devn	(inc wtetzner)
16:35	lazybot	⇒ 1
16:35	devn	(inc Raynes)
16:35	lazybot	⇒ 13
16:35	technomancy	except HTTP headers have extra facepalminess in that they're case-insensitive
16:35	devn	"facepalminess"
16:35	devn	(inc technomancy)
16:35	lazybot	⇒ 24
16:37	Raynes	wtetzner: You'll have to forgive me for freaking out about the association lists. I've literally never seen anybody with a real reasonable use for them in Clojure, so without knowledge of query string nuttiness, it really does look strange. I'll probably send you a pull request shortly with suggestions for your (ns ..) declarations and some comments for the query-string code to explain it a bit more.
16:37	Raynes	wtetzner: If you had ordered maps, could they perhaps be represented as that? Just curious.
16:38	technomancy	Raynes: they still need to be multimaps
16:38	Raynes	technomancy: Not really. Multiple keys could be represented with vectors, no?
16:38	wtetzner	Raynes: but order matters
16:39	Raynes	"foo=bar&foo=baz" -> {:foo ["bar" "baz"]} or something.
16:39	technomancy	Raynes: yeah, but that causes them to be collapsed
16:39	wtetzner	x=1&x=2&y=2 is different from x=1&y=2&x=2
16:39	technomancy	you couldn't represent "foo=bar&baz=y&foo=no"
16:39	Raynes	Yeah, you've got me.
16:39	Raynes	You win! Okay!!?!?!
16:39	technomancy	hehe
16:40	technomancy	I agree that my first reaction upon seeing alists is "oh, someone came from CL and assumes Clojure's maps are similarly useless" =)
16:40	technomancy	or elisp
16:42	Raynes	wtetzner: In that case, your code is exceedingly thoughtful and clever and I've written a URI library myself that didn't even account for this stuff.
16:42	Raynes	wtetzner: Also, what does the name mean? It's killing me inside.
16:42	wtetzner	Raynes: haha
16:42	wtetzner	Raynes: the name doesn't mean anything
16:42	wtetzner	Raynes: but it's memorable
16:43	wtetzner	Raynes: and not likely to be confused with something else
16:43	Raynes	That's for sure!
16:46	TimMc	"Some people when faced with a problem think, I know, I'll use distributed computing. Now they have n^2 problems."
16:47	TimMc	https://twitter.com/#!/jamesiry
16:47	Raynes	wtetzner: Is there a reason user-info couldn't also be split automatically into the user/pass portions for easier retrieval?
16:47	TimMc	^ this is my new favorite version of that
16:47	Raynes	Wondering because other libraries avoid doing that as well.
16:51	Borkdude	lol! https://twitter.com/#!/fakerichhickey/status/200963481565011969
16:52	ianbarber	is there anything anywhere about the relative sizes of the thread pools for agents using send/send-off. I am guessing send uses one ~= to the number of cores?
16:53	ianbarber	looks like, based on this stack overflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1646351/what-is-the-difference-between-clojures-send-and-send-off-functions-with-re
16:54	ianbarber	so that answers that, sorry for the needless chatter :)
16:56	Borkdude	so what's the deal with "wat"… it's just a the Dutch word for "what"
16:56	mmarczyk	I for one don't get what's people's problem with prefix lists at all; I rather think they should be used whenever possible as a matter of style
16:57	Licenser	yay I backed light table 1000th backer in the category
16:57	mmarczyk	conversion to the (:require [foo.bar.baz ...] [foo.bar.quux ...]) style is < 10 lines of code (which I've written), so it's not as if this really makes anything more difficult for any sort of tooling
16:57	beffbernard	TimMC: N^2 or N! problems? ;)
16:57	mmarczyk	at least as long as it's written in Clojure, but if it isn't, that's hardly the biggest problem.
16:58	mmarczyk	ok, so much for my rant. :-P
17:02	Borkdude	(in fact U literaly means you, and lol means fun in Dutch… it's just slang)
17:09	wtetzner	Raynes: no reason
17:09	wtetzner	Raynes: I just didn't think of it
17:09	wtetzner	Raynes: although i'd have to double check what the rules are for it
17:09	Raynes	Right
17:10	Raynes	It isn't a big deal either way (it's not like I lose anything because of it, nobody else does it either). :)
17:11	Raynes	wtetzner: Refheap has been fish'd: https://github.com/Raynes/refheap/commit/23750209ff9c9df84f4c3b31ce8aeee2317b08dc
17:11	Raynes	:D
17:12	wtetzner	Raynes: awesome
17:12	wtetzner	Raynes: i'm sure you'll let me know if you find any bugs :)
17:13	zxtx	hey anybody around who had success to calling scala code from clojure?
17:13	Raynes	Yeah, publicly and with strong words. :P
17:13	technomancy	zxtx: I was able to invoke the scala compiler
17:13	technomancy	but that was through ant, so it might not count
17:13	zxtx	technomancy, I am trying to wrap a scala library that makes heavy use of traits
17:14	zxtx	how are traits expressed in the jvm
17:14	zxtx	i know this is more of a scala question, but I want to wrap clojure so figure here works better to ask
17:18	gfredericks	if trace-lvars reveals that the value of a logic variable is a lazy seq, does that mean I did something wrong?
17:18	mmarczyk	zxtx: http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/interop-between-java-and-scala
17:18	technomancy	hm; I don't know what traits are
17:19	gfredericks	mixins?
17:19	zxtx	mmarczyk, yep just found that page now
17:20	zxtx	ok now, this is definitely going to be painful :)
17:21	Bronsa	è
17:21	Bronsa	ops
17:23	TimMc	zxtx: I sense macros in your future.
17:24	zxtx	TimMc, yep
17:28	zxtx	hopefully I can see if someone did some of this legwork already
17:38	al-maisan	what's the easiest way to define a bunch of tasks that are independent of each other and have them executed in parallel?
17:40	al-maisan	I am looking for something like the "go" construct in golang
17:40	mrakana	Often I wish I could remove the state I've accumulated inside the repl. How can I just "clear everything" and start from scratch, but without restarting the entire java environment?
17:43	arohner	al-maisan: there's not anything directly like that, but you could use future or pmap
17:44	arohner	mrakana: recent versions of swank clear the NS if you use C-c C-l
17:45	al-maisan	arohner: when using futures: will they be executed w/o any further interaction or do I need to deref them in order to trigger execution?
17:46	arohner	al-maisan: they start executing immediately. Deref only blocks until the future is done
17:46	mrakana	arohner: Thanks, I'll try that out.
17:46	al-maisan	arohner: I see .. will try them .. thanks!
17:46	arohner	al-maisan: one tricky aspect is that future uses the IO thread pool, rather than the CPU threadpool
17:46	arohner	so be careful about starting large numbers of CPU bound tasks that way
17:47	al-maisan	what is the difference between these pools?
17:47	arohner	the CPU pool is set to N+2 threads, where N is the number of cores you have
17:47	arohner	the IO pool is unlimited
17:47	al-maisan	ah .. I see.
17:47	al-maisan	thanks for the advice!
17:56	arohner	someone really needs to write future-cpu. I've wanted that before...
18:20	Borkdude	how about this for a macro? (inspired by if-let only taking one binding) https://www.refheap.com/paste/2699
18:20	lynaghk	mmarczyk: just tidied up my cljs benchmark runner---I saw you had some stuff in cljs core on the topic, so you might want to check it out: https://github.com/lynaghk/profile-cljs
18:20	al-maisan	arohner: hmm .. I am running 50k tasks using futures on a 4-core CPU machine but see only 2 cores being used
18:21	al-maisan	arohner: here's the source if you'd like to take a look: http://bit.ly/KdrU48
18:22	al-maisan	all the action is in the main function, lines 48-62
18:23	arohner	al-maisan: seqs are lazy, so you might not be forcing the evaluation
18:24	arohner	see what happens if you put a doall around the map that creates the futures
18:24	arohner	(for [sexp (doall (map vector...))
18:24	LauJensen	Good evening gents
18:25	Borkdude	LauJensen: good evening
18:26	jasonjckn	amalloy: did you figure out what rich wanted?
18:26	amalloy	jasonjckn: i haven't done anything since his response this morning
18:26	jasonjckn	amalloy: do you know what to do? I can take a look if that helps
18:27	al-maisan	arohner: the "doall" is doing the trick .. thanks again!!
18:27	amalloy	sorta. i realize my current patch is basically a flamethrower approach, but he implies it's possible to use something a lot more delicate than i think is possible
18:27	arohner	np
18:28	jasonjckn	amalloy: nods I haven't a clue yet, but i'll give it some time, see what I come up with
18:29	amalloy	specifically, ISeq is not a four-method interface, it is at least nine methods, because it extends IPersistentCollection
18:29	amalloy	the other twenty or so are necessary only for java interop, which i was under the impression was an important design requirement for seqs, but perhaps isn't. i need to ask him about that
18:30	al-maisan	Wow! The load on my linux box is 300 and growing .. so much for using futures (IO thread pool) for CPU-bound tasks :P
18:31	jasonjckn	amalloy: Is there no way to inherit from LazySeq and extend reducer protocols?
18:31	Borkdude	what is the place to issue something which is not correct in the docstring of a function in clojure.core?
18:31	amalloy	not in clojure, only in java
18:32	jasonjckn	hm, yah dunno what rich had in mind
18:33	arohner	al-maisan: since you're already using for, pmap might be a better solution
18:33	al-maisan	maybe
18:34	jasonjckn	amalloy: rich says 7 methods, as oppose to 9
18:34	arohner	well, pmap won't give you load of 300 :-)
18:34	jasonjckn	amalloy: eitherway, he acknowledges a lot of methods, and he says to farm out implementation
18:34	amalloy	jasonjckn: i don't understand "farm out implementation"
18:35	jasonjckn	amalloy: Just take the implementation of LazySeq and put it inside its own function that you can call when implementing ISeq (?)
18:35	al-maisan	arohner: I tried pmap .. wasn't quite happy with the execution time (golang binary 20 seconds, erlang implementation 5 minutes, clojure/pmap 12 minutes)
18:36	al-maisan	arohner: see http://bit.ly/IWSgZI
18:36	jasonjckn	amalloy: maybe i'm being naive, i haven't looked at LazySeq code
18:36	amalloy	jasonjckn: okay, i reread his comment - last time i read it i was still sleepy
18:36	jasonjckn	kk
18:37	amalloy	and i think i understand what he's suggesting
18:37	arohner	al-maisan: again, laziness. try (doall (pmap..))
18:37	al-maisan	ok
18:37	PeregrinePDX	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2103599/better-alternative-to-pmap-in-clojure-for-parallelizing-moderately-inexpensive-f
18:38	amalloy	jasonjckn: btw, if you don't mind my asking...should i know who you are? a week ago i'd never heard of you, and suddenly you're doing some cool work on this reducers stuff, and explaining core.logic in irc
18:38	jasonjckn	amalloy: hah well I use to go under the name Null-A
18:38	jasonjckn	amalloy: but that won't help you much either
18:38	amalloy	oh, okay
18:39	amalloy	sure it will. you hang out in irc all the time
18:39	jasonjckn	amalloy: IRL i worked at backtype before it was bought by twitter
18:39	jasonjckn	amalloy: and will be starting at twitter very shortly
18:39	jasonjckn	amalloy: i've worked a lot with nathanmarz
18:39	jasonjckn	contributed a bit to storm
18:40	amalloy	interesting. i wonder if we met in SF
18:40	jasonjckn	probably not yet, but if you live there, it will happen
18:40	jasonjckn	i just graduated, so i'll be moving out there shortly
18:40	jasonjckn	(I was back and forth before)
18:40	amalloy	nah, i lived there a year ago and went to some meetups, including nathanmarz's presentation
18:40	amalloy	in LA now
18:41	jasonjckn	Ah, maybe we did, i went to a few bay area lisp meetups
18:42	jasonjckn	i went to one on "kludge" another one about a DSL for writing contracts
18:42	jasonjckn	and a cascalog one, i'm sure if that was bay area lisp meetup though
18:45	amalloy	right, i was at the clojure meetup on cascalog
18:45	amalloy	in like...last april or so
18:46	jasonjckn	probably met then :)
18:54	Raynes	He was the guy with the ponytail and eyes that melt your heart.
18:55	amalloy	jasonjckn: i just commented again on the issue, if you'd like to keep up to date
18:55	jasonjckn	i'm watching
18:57	TEttinger	how do I call a function on each member of a sequence? is it apply, or map, or what?
18:57	TEttinger	I can never tell all these docs apart
18:57	jasonjckn	map
18:57	TEttinger	thanks
18:57	jasonjckn	clojuredocs.org may be more useful
18:57	amalloy	TEttinger: you can ask lazybot, too
18:57	jasonjckn	or there's many great books
18:57	amalloy	$findfn inc [1 2 3 4] [2 3 4 5]
18:57	lazybot	[clojure.core/mapv clojure.core/map clojure.core/keep]
18:58	TEttinger	,(map #(inc %) [1 2 3])
18:58	clojurebot	(2 3 4)
18:58	jasonjckn	,(map inc [1 2 3])
18:58	clojurebot	(2 3 4)
18:58	TEttinger	oh :-)
18:59	ivan	$findfn (1 2 3) (1 3 2)
18:59	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
18:59	ivan	$findfn '(1 2 3) '(1 3 2)
18:59	lazybot	[]
19:00	jasonjckn	unfortunately it's not a strong AI
19:01	gfredericks	$findfn [1 2 3] [1 2 3]
19:01	lazybot	[clojure.set/union clojure.set/intersection clojure.set/difference clojure.core/list* clojure.core/time clojure.core/dosync clojure.core/distinct clojure.core/lazy-cat clojure.core/sequence clojure.core/with-loading-context clojure.core/vec clojure.core/concat c... https://www.refheap.com/paste/2702
19:04	al-maisan	arohner: FYI: the "doall" made no real difference:
19:04	al-maisan	real 11m59.194s
19:04	al-maisan	user 33m19.577s
19:04	al-maisan	sys 0m7.740s
19:05	al-maisan	BTW, the version with the futures (that caused the high load) fared as follows:
19:05	al-maisan	real 12m17.674s
19:05	al-maisan	user 43m32.027s
19:05	al-maisan	sys 0m9.077s
19:05	al-maisan	thanks for all your help!
19:05	PeregrinePDX	try partitioning your seq if you can
19:05	PeregrinePDX	and pmap on each partition.
19:05	al-maisan	aha
19:06	al-maisan	OK
19:06	al-maisan	will try that
19:06	al-maisan	thanks!
19:08	jasonjckn	amalloy: never heard of range-list (?)
19:08	amalloy	jasonjckn: i just made it up
19:08	amalloy	the point is that it would work currently, and break if i don't implement the java interop interfaces
19:09	jasonjckn	amalloy: ArrayList accepts Collection interface, implement that?
19:09	jasonjckn	ArrayList ctor*
19:09	amalloy	exactly. that's the other 20 methods i was objecting to
19:09	jasonjckn	ah
19:09	amalloy	(i think it's more like 10, and another 10 to implement List)
19:11	jasonjckn	maybe worse, because one of them is Iterator<E> iterator()
19:11	amalloy	meh, that's not a problem
19:11	amalloy	if you look at my patch, i did implement all of those interfaces, in a macro
19:12	dnolen	the beginnings of some proper Mori documentation, http://swannodette.github.com/mori/
19:12	dnolen	if anybody wants to help with logo, copy, code, examples, typography, etc, fork away.
19:12	jasonjckn	amalloy: ArrayList ctor might not call all those methods though, particularly the description in java doc says "Constructs a list containing the elements of the specified collection, in the order they are returned by the collection's iterator."
19:13	jasonjckn	amalloy: although i guess it's bad karma to not implement everything
19:13	amalloy	doesn't matter, the arraylist constructor is just one example
19:15	jasonjckn	if ISeq was a protocol that would solve this right?
19:15	amalloy	uhhhh. i don't see how, but i'm not willing to commit to a "no"
19:17	jasonjckn	i need to look at code more
19:18	michaelr525	hiccup automatically htmlencodes everything, is there a way to tell it not to encode part of the content?
19:19	lynaghk	dnolen: just spent some time with my cljs profiling kit. It's now "ugly and usable" instead of "ugly and useless". Comparisons between simple/advanced mode compilation. Also buttons.
19:21	dnolen	lynaghk: yeah just saw that! will check it out later
19:21	lynaghk	dnolen: let me know if there are any features you want.
19:23	lynaghk	michaelr525: I thought hiccup explicitly does NOT htmlencode everything so that you can nest
19:24	lynaghk	michaelr525: https://github.com/weavejester/hiccup/issues/5
19:24	michaelr525	lynaghk: well probably not everything. my use case is when I create html templates for use on the client side
19:25	weavejester	I've been considering having Hiccup convert into a DOM first, then have different HTML renders you could use.
19:25	lynaghk	michaelr525: are you actually using hiccup, or are you using crate or c2?
19:26	michaelr525	i'm using noir, isn't it using hiccup?
19:26	weavejester	But as it stands, direct serializing HTML into strings is, while fast, not really compatible with encoding everything.
19:26	lynaghk	weavejester: would that be a continuation of the "refactor" branch where you process everything into maps of {:elem :attr :children} ?
19:26	weavejester	lynaghk: Yep
19:27	michaelr525	i write [:a {:src "<%= url %>"}] for example and it encode the <>
19:27	lynaghk	weavejester: ah. Yeah. For what it's worth, I've cleaned that up a bit as part of the cljs hiccup compiler in C2
19:27	michaelr525	encodes
19:27	weavejester	lynaghk: Could you give me a link?
19:28	lynaghk	weavejester: https://github.com/lynaghk/c2/blob/master/src/cljs/c2/dom.cljs#L231
19:28	lynaghk	it's not that much cleaner; I just replaced some of the crazier nested conditionals with core.match.
19:29	lynaghk	weavejester: having a DOM with some special nodes is something I've been thinking about lately as part of a knockout.js-like DOM/data binding library. Especially mapping collections to the DOM.
19:30	weavejester	lynaghk: Yeah, I was meaning on using core.match too.
19:31	lynaghk	weavejester: it's a great library, though there are some outstanding issues with AOT compilation at the moment.
19:31	jasonjckn	glad i'm not the only one
19:32	weavejester	Hiccup's design is not that elegant currently, but it is fast. The problem is that using a DOM and renderer would slow it down, unless the renderer precompiles, too.
19:32	weavejester	Although, I wonder in practise how important it is to render quickly. I guess it depends on the project.
19:32	lynaghk	weavejester: yeah.
19:34	lynaghk	anyway, gotta run before the pastry store closes. back later.
19:59	mittchel	Hello everyone :)
20:00	mittchel	Is anyone able to help me out on a function? It's not returning what I expected :P
20:00	brehaut	~anyone
20:00	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
20:01	brehaut	if its a short function just paste it in, if its larger, use a paste site
20:01	mittchel	@brehaut thanks for your feedback:)
20:02	mittchel	I'm trying to develop a function with takes an X amount of variables. It should check the type of the parameter and when it's a string it should print it out.
20:02	brehaut	mittchel: no worries. whats the function, and what is it doing wrong?
20:02	mittchel	(defn returnString [& y]
20:02	mittchel	(if (next y)
20:02	mittchel	((fn [x] (if(= (type x) "java.lang.String")(print x)))y)
20:02	mittchel	(recur (next y))))
20:02	mittchel	That's my code, but unfortunately it's printing nothing
20:02	brehaut	mittchel: next time its a multiliner, use refheap.com or a gist or similar
20:03	amalloy	y is always a list, never an item of a list
20:03	seancorfield	&(type "string")
20:03	lazybot	⇒ java.lang.String
20:03	mittchel	@brehaut Alright, thanks. Thought this was relatively small haha
20:03	brehaut	one line is small ;)
20:03	amalloy	so it's never a string
20:03	brehaut	also you should probably prefer class to type
20:03	mittchel	hmm sounds logical
20:03	brehaut	but in this case string? is more useful
20:04	mittchel	But I have to give you guys a heads up. I'm very new at Clojure. I'm basically a java programmer so it's much different for me haha.
20:04	brehaut	,(map string? ["ab" ()])
20:04	clojurebot	(true false)
20:04	mittchel	Could you use the: ? on every type?
20:04	mittchel	so lets say int?
20:04	brehaut	nope
20:05	brehaut	,(apropos '?)
20:05	clojurebot	(keyword? chunked-seq? instance? sequential? fn? ...)
20:05	seancorfield	and you know it'll print the string and return nil mittchel ?
20:05	amalloy	it's not a magical syntactic thing, it's just a normal function with a ? in the name
20:05	brehaut	theres also instance?
20:05	brehaut	,(instance? Integer 1)
20:05	clojurebot	false
20:05	mittchel	hm let me try to get it working with string?
20:06	brehaut	lol
20:06	seancorfield	&(sort (apropos "?"))
20:06	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: apropos in this context
20:06	seancorfield	no repl in lazybot?
20:06	mittchel	Should I use filter for this though?
20:06	Raynes	&(use 'clojure.repl)
20:06	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.repl
20:06	mittchel	Or is my function completely wrong haha
20:07	Raynes	Apparentlyn ot./
20:07	seancorfield	,(sort (apropos "?"))
20:07	clojurebot	(associative? blank? bound? char? chunked-seq? ...)
20:07	seancorfield	does clojurebot limit by print-length ?
20:07	seancorfield	,*print-length
20:07	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: *print-length in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
20:07	seancorfield	,print-length
20:07	clojurebot	5
20:08	brehaut	&(binding [print-length 60] (apropos '?))
20:08	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! pop-thread-bindings is bad!
20:08	seancorfield	,(binding [print-length 100] (sort (apropos "?")))
20:08	clojurebot	(associative? blank? bound? char? chunked-seq? ...)
20:08	seancorfield	bah...
20:08	amalloy	,(binding [print-length 100] (prn (sort (apropos "?"))))
20:08	clojurebot	(associative? blank? bound? char? chunked-seq? class? coll? contains? counted? decimal? delay? distinct? empty? even? every? extends? false? float? fn? future-cancelled? future-done? future? identical? ifn? instance? integer? isa? keyword? list? map? neg? nil? not-any? not-every? number? odd? pos? ratio? rational? realized? reversible? satisfies? seq? sequential? set? sorted? special-symbol? strin...
20:09	seancorfield	thanx amalloy
20:09	mittchel	@ammaloy how am I able to check if that 'list item' is indeed a string? Like I said, I'm very new at this and I can't seem to get it working with (if(string? y)) either.
20:10	mittchel	amalloy*
20:10	mittchel	sorry for that.
20:10	seancorfield	you want to test the first element of the sequence?
20:10	seancorfield	(if (string? (first y)) ...)
20:11	mittchel	What I want is to check for every element which is passed threw the function
20:11	seancorfield	also, watch out for the difference between ##(next ()) and ##(rest ())
20:11	lazybot	(next ()) ⇒ nil
20:11	lazybot	(rest ()) ⇒ ()
20:12	brehaut	,(every? string? ["a" 1])
20:12	clojurebot	false
20:12	brehaut	,(every? string? ["a" "b"])
20:12	clojurebot	true
20:12	seancorfield	,(filter string? ["a" 1])
20:12	clojurebot	("a")
20:13	mittchel	Arggg this is frustrating
20:13	brehaut	mittchel: tell us what you want the function to do
20:13	brehaut	in
20:13	brehaut	english
20:13	brehaut	(sorry about the spurious return)
20:13	mittchel	No problem I understand
20:13	mittchel	Fact of the mather is I do understand what you mean, but I'm not able to implement it due the lack of knowledge currently
20:14	seancorfield	btw, the reason i've been absent from #clojure for a couple of weeks is due to work pressures... we migrated all our legacy sites to our new cfml / clojure platform at the end of april so i've been a tad busy with that... we added about 2.5M users to the new platform in april as we migrated sites over... so it's been... a little hectic at times :)
20:14	mittchel	I have to create a function which accepts X amount of variables. I have to filter the arguments which are of type String and return this as a result.
20:15	seancorfield	so you're writing a filter function for string? elements of a collection
20:15	mittchel	Yes
20:16	brehaut	(def only-strings (partial apply filter string?))
20:16	brehaut	mittchel: discard any notion of camel case being good style btw
20:16	seancorfield	is this for a course exercise? are there any restrictions on what functions you're allowed to use in the solution? (e.g., 4clojure doesn't let you use the function it is trying to encourage you to implement directly)
20:16	mittchel	It indeed is a course exercise.. it actually gives me a hint to use: type
20:17	seancorfield	so they don't want the simple, obvious solution: (defn return-strings [& args] (filter string? args))
20:17	mittchel	It's for a school assignment. It's the last exercise which I'm having trouble with haha
20:17	mittchel	Maybe my teacher hasn't thought of the simple and obvious one
20:18	seancorfield	'k ... so you're on the right track with [& y] to allow return-string to accept any number of arguments
20:19	mittchel	Actually when I compile your code seancorfield, it gives me an error.
20:19	seancorfield	but (recur (next y)) is going to call it with a single argument - the rest of the collection - rather than all the remaining arguments
20:19	mittchel	ahh
20:19	amalloy	seancorfield: not true
20:19	mittchel	Unable to resolve symbol: return-string in this context,
20:19	mittchel	It's giving me a hard time haha
20:20	amalloy	when you recur to a vararg function, you pass it a collection, not a bunch of args
20:21	seancorfield	amalloy: really? oh, learn something new every day... what about (defn f [x & y] ... (recur y)) ?
20:21	amalloy	complains because you're passing it x and not y
20:21	mittchel	But basically this should do what I want right: (defn return-strings [& args] (filter string? args))
20:23	amalloy	assuming that what you want is to return a list of all the strings in your arglist
20:23	mittchel	Yea that's even better, but why does it give me a runtimeexception?
20:24	amalloy	i assume because you're doing something else wrong
20:24	mittchel	Maybe when I'm calling the function?
20:25	mittchel	Cause I'm trying like this: (return-string ["test" 1 "test2"])
20:25	seancorfield	return-string vs return-strings
20:26	mittchel	holy cow that scared me haha lol
20:26	seancorfield	and you'd call it like this: (return-strings "test" 1 "test2")
20:26	mittchel	brackets ([ ]) are only with collections right?
20:27	seancorfield	in (return-string ["test" 1 "test2"]) you're passing a single argument, a vector...
20:27	seancorfield	(which is why i was confused about recur - thanx amalloy for setting me straight)
20:27	mittchel	Alright, thanks a lot :)
20:28	mittchel	Is it also possible to use this function but with type? Or do you have to work recur with that?
20:29	seancorfield	sure... string? is a function that is like (fn [s] (= "java.lang.String" (type s)))
20:29	brehaut	,(class (type "a"))
20:29	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
20:30	brehaut	comparing a string to a class is always going to be false
20:30	seancorfield	so ##(filter (fn [s] (= "java.lang.String" (type s))) ["test" 1 "test2" 3])
20:30	lazybot	⇒ ()
20:30	brehaut	,(= (type "A") java.lang.String)
20:30	clojurebot	true
20:31	seancorfield	ah, my bad... shouldn't be "quoted"
20:31	tomoj	,(filter (comp #{String} type) ["test" 1])
20:31	clojurebot	("test")
20:32	seancorfield	should be ##(filter (fn [s] (= java.lang.String (type s))) ["test" 1
20:32	seancorfield	"test2" 3])
20:32	seancorfield	minus the newline :)
20:32	mittchel	haha
20:32	mittchel	Thanks
20:32	seancorfield	,(filter (fn [s] (= java.lang.String (type s))) ["test" 1 "two" 3.0 "four"])
20:32	clojurebot	("test" "two" "four")
20:33	mittchel	you guys gave me a lot of solutions
20:33	seancorfield	there are often many, many ways to solve a problem in clojure :)
20:33	brehaut	if your teacher is telling you to use type to test types, you should point out that they should be using instance? at least
20:34	brehaut	,(= (class {}) clojure.lang.IPersistentMap)
20:34	clojurebot	false
20:34	seancorfield	,(filter (fn [s] (instance? java.lang.String s)) ["testing" 1 "two" 3.0 "four"])
20:34	clojurebot	("testing" "two" "four")
20:34	brehaut	,(instance? clojure.lang.IPersistantMap {})
20:34	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.lang.IPersistantMap, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
20:34	mittchel	But, this one works with vectors right: (filter (fn [s] (= java.lang.String (type s))) ["test" 1 "two" 3.0 "four"])
20:35	mittchel	Or collections
20:35	brehaut	,(instance? clojure.lang.IPersistentMap {})
20:35	clojurebot	true
20:35	srid`	any avout users here who found a way to drop zookeeper dependency?
20:35	seancorfield	any sequences... and [& y] gives you a sequence in y
20:35	srid`	it seems to me even using using the mongo backend will require zk for co-ordination.
20:35	srid`	(sorry for emacs wrapping up that message into two lines)
20:36	tomoj	would it be very difficult to write cljs versions of defprotocol/satisfies?/reify/extend-type/defrecord etc
20:36	tomoj	for exposing to js
20:36	seancorfield	btw mittchel welcome to clojure :)
20:37	mittchel	Thanks a lot haha:D
20:37	mittchel	Is there any website or something else you guys would advice me to read as a real beginner
20:38	gfredericks	did someone say 4clojure.com yet?
20:38	seancorfield	clojure koans project is good to practice on - as well as 4clojure.com
20:39	mittchel	I'm really going to give that a go.
20:39	mittchel	I think my main problem is my way of thinking
20:40	PeregrinePDX	Just a warning. If you're slightly obsessive at all. Do not start a 4clojure problem if you intend to go to bed soon.
20:40	PeregrinePDX	4clojure robbed me of a night of sleep since i couldn't figure out a solution
20:40	mittchel	haha I actually had the same problem with this one.
20:40	seancorfield	mittchel: mark volkmann's tutorial is probably a good read too http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html
20:40	mittchel	Maybe it sounds bad, but I've actually been working for 2 and half hours on this particular problem
20:41	PeregrinePDX	You're a newbie
20:41	PeregrinePDX	I'm a newbie too
20:41	mittchel	seancorfield. looks awesome!
20:41	mittchel	Is anyone using a Mac by coincidence?:P
20:41	PeregrinePDX	So I won't be judging people on how long it takes them to solve a problem.
20:41	seancorfield	mittchel: most clojure developers are on macs i think
20:42	mittchel	Is there a way to get clojure working in terminal? Since eclipse gets buggy with the repl somethimes
20:42	seancorfield	mac and linux... very few windows folks...
20:42	amalloy	seancorfield: that's a pretty strong statement. mac or linux, yes
20:42	seancorfield	leiningen is your friend
20:42	seancorfield	mittchel: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen
20:42	gfredericks	clojure confs don't look as macky as ruby confs
20:43	mittchel	Thanks seancor
20:43	seancorfield	leiningen manages all of your dependencies so you don't have to worry about java classpath nonsense, then you can just do: lein repl
20:43	seancorfield	gfredericks: clojure/west and clojure/conj both seemed very mac-heavy to me...
20:43	mittchel	Does the installation take long? otherwise I'll do it now
20:43	seancorfield	leiningen is a single shell script
20:44	mittchel	I actually just got a macbook air so getting used to it hehe
20:44	seancorfield	scroll down to "Installation", right-click on "Download the script" and save it to somewhere, make it executable and ensure it's on your path
20:45	mittchel	Often have the problem of having 3000 applications still running
20:45	seancorfield	folks generally put it in ~/bin/ i think
20:45	mittchel	does ~/bin exist on mac?
20:45	seancorfield	i.e., /Users/{username}/bin
20:45	seancorfield	you may have to create it
20:45	mittchel	alright, thanks again
20:45	mittchel	Really appreciate your help
20:45	seancorfield	what were you using before mac?
20:46	mittchel	Windows
20:46	mittchel	haha
20:46	mittchel	Don't insult me now I said that
20:46	seancorfield	so you're still getting used to Terminal and *nix? :)
20:46	gfredericks	C:\
20:46	mittchel	Yep basicly.
20:46	mittchel	Weird thing was like I tried to ping a website
20:46	mittchel	and it kept on going
20:46	mittchel	haha
20:46	seancorfield	hey, i have win xp and win 8 in VMs on my mac!
20:47	seancorfield	mostly to practice emacs / leiningen / clojure setup on so i can help others :)
20:47	seancorfield	although i run sql server express on xp so i can test clojure.java.jdbc
20:47	mittchel	haha great
20:47	mittchel	Does that work good?
20:48	seancorfield	it works well enough to unit test c.j.jdbc against the MS jdbc driver and the jtds driver :)
20:49	seancorfield	i don't use windows for much except testing stuff when i have to
20:49	mittchel	my bin folder is actually in the main folder where Users map also is
20:49	seancorfield	i'm trying to avoid installing postgresql and oracle locally but at some point i'll probably do it so i can better test c.j.jdbc against those :(
20:50	seancorfield	mittchel: ~/bin should be /Users/{username}/bin - that's the most common place
20:50	mittchel	Alright, well the bin folder I mean is actually private anyways:P
20:50	mittchel	seancorfield Could you give me 10% of your clojure knowlodge?
20:50	seancorfield	although you could always put the lein script in /usr/bin - unix system bin folder
20:50	mittchel	haha
20:51	mittchel	You know whats giving me a hard time in mac
20:51	seancorfield	lol... i'm still pretty new... i only started with clojure in 2010... went to amit rathore's "pro bootcamp" one saturday
20:51	mittchel	simply creating a folder.. you have to press somewhere that is not a file lol
20:51	seancorfield	best $200 i ever spent
20:51	mittchel	haha
20:52	mittchel	2010
20:52	mittchel	that's 2 years
20:52	uvtc	mittchel: Although it's focus is on getting set up on GNU/Linux, you might have a look at this: <http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/clojure/brief-beginners-guide/>.
20:52	gfredericks	2 years in clojure is new. Most of us have been doing it for 10 or 15.
20:52	seancorfield	lol gfredericks !!
20:53	mittchel	Wow
20:53	seancorfield	mittchel: i mostly create folders in Terminal... mkdir somefolder
20:53	mittchel	You're a liar
20:53	mittchel	wiki says Clojure is made in 2007
20:53	mittchel	haha
20:53	seancorfield	gfredericks: is teasing :)
20:53	mittchel	I figured haha
20:54	mittchel	@seancorfield: Do I need to download the source from lein too?
20:54	mittchel	Or just the script
20:56	gfredericks	mittchel: the lein script bootstraps itself
20:56	mittchel	alright
20:56	gfredericks	you'll probably see it doing that the first time you run it
20:56	mittchel	because its a .txt file when I download it
20:57	gfredericks	that is weird.
20:57	seancorfield	mittchel: just rename it to 'lein'
20:57	uvtc	mittchel: lein is a shell script. When you first run it (`lein self-install`), it installs the rest of Leiningen.
20:57	seancorfield	then make it executable: chmod +x lein
20:58	seancorfield	uvtc: i believe leiningen bootstraps itself on first use - you don't even need self-install these days?
20:58	uvtc	seancorfield: Right.
20:58	gfredericks	dat true.
20:58	seancorfield	download, make executable, lein repl
20:58	mittchel	I actually tried this: /Users/mittchel/bin/lein
20:58	mittchel	Thanks for the help again :P
20:58	gfredericks	then at the repl run (#(% %) #(% %))
20:59	gfredericks	to make sure your computer is awake
20:59	seancorfield	you're so mean :)
20:59	mittchel	haha
20:59	seancorfield	if it's in that folder, then chmod +x ~/bin/lein should work
20:59	mittchel	when I did the chmod, then do the lein-instll command?
20:59	mittchel	Since it still shows as a text file
20:59	seancorfield	no, just ~/bin/lein repl
21:00	seancorfield	you renamed it to just lein?
21:00	uvtc	mittchel: <http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/clojure/brief-beginners-guide/development-env.html#clojure-projects>
21:00	mittchel	Yes I did haha
21:00	seancorfield	then all you should need is ~/bin/lein repl
21:00	seancorfield	you'll want to put ~/bin on your path at some point for convenience
21:00	uvtc	mittchel: Oh, wait --- sorry, that guide is for Leiningen 2. I didn't ask which you were running (lein 1.x or 2)
21:01	mittchel	chmod: /Users/mittchel/bin/lein: No such file or directorya
21:01	mittchel	Not running anything yet haha
21:01	seancorfield	it'll be lein 1.7.1 from the site
21:01	mittchel	Why does it give me the chmod error:/
21:01	seancorfield	mittchel: you said it was lein.txt - did you rename it?
21:02	uvtc	seancorfield: the "download the lein script" link at <http://leiningen.org/index.html> points to lein 2.
21:02	mittchel	I did
21:02	mittchel	to just basically lein
21:02	seancorfield	uvtc: i pointed him at the github site
21:02	seancorfield	which is https://raw.github.com/technomancy/leiningen/stable/bin/lein and that's 1.7.1 i believe
21:02	mittchel	I removed the .txt from the name
21:02	uvtc	seancorfield: Oh, whoops, sorry.
21:03	seancorfield	mittchel: so do: ls -l ~/bin
21:03	seancorfield	what does it show?
21:03	mittchel	total 24
21:03	mittchel	-rwxr-xr-x@ 1 mittchel staff 9905 13 mei 02:51 lein.txt
21:03	mittchel	still lein.txt
21:03	mittchel	huh
21:03	seancorfield	do: mv ~/bin/lein.txt ~/bin/lein
21:03	seancorfield	then: chmod +x ~/bin/lein
21:04	seancorfield	then: ~/bin/lein repl
21:04	mittchel	you are fast damn
21:04	seancorfield	i've been typing on *nix systems since '79 :)
21:04	mittchel	It's downloading stuff
21:04	clojurebot	Pardon?
21:04	seancorfield	mittchel: yup, it's installing itself and clojure
21:04	mittchel	79? May I ask what your age is?
21:05	amalloy	seancorfield: save yourself some typing! mv ~/bin/lein{.txt,}
21:05	seancorfield	you'll get clojure 1.2.1 by default (outside a project)
21:05	seancorfield	you can create a new project: ~/bin/lein new playground
21:05	mittchel	I have to start it always by: ~bin/lein repl
21:05	mittchel	?
21:06	seancorfield	unless you add ~/bin to your path (edit .profile )
21:06	gfredericks	seancorfield is ##(+ (- 2012 1979) 10 (rand-int 30)) years old
21:06	lazybot	⇒ 70
21:07	gfredericks	lazybot: you'd better apologize
21:07	uvtc	~bin
21:07	clojurebot	:\|
21:07	amalloy	10d8
21:07	clojurebot	48
21:07	mittchel	Where can I find the .profile if I may ask the last noob question haha
21:07	amalloy	probably a better guess by clojurebot
21:07	seancorfield	do: ls -a
21:07	seancorfield	that will show hidden files
21:08	seancorfield	and you may not have .profile yet on a brand new mac (? maybe)
21:08	seancorfield	what text editor are you using?
21:08	mittchel	-a command not found haha
21:08	mittchel	Basic one: Texteditor
21:08	seancorfield	for the record everyone i'll be 50 on july 7th (and i already have my AARP card :p )
21:08	uvtc	mittchel: `cd` then `ls -a`
21:08	gfredericks	man clojurebot is good
21:09	uvtc	gfredericks: I wish I knew more of its secrets.
21:09	mittchel	it says
21:09	mittchel	. .. .DS_Store lein
21:09	uvtc	~age-of-universe
21:09	clojurebot	No entiendo
21:09	mittchel	hehe
21:09	gfredericks	~42
21:09	clojurebot	42 is the answer
21:10	uvtc	gfredericks: I laughed out loud when I read in the log what it replied to "gentlemen"
21:10	gfredericks	~gentlemen
21:10	clojurebot	You can't fight in here. This is the war room.
21:10	seancorfield	mittchel: sounds like you're in ~/bin not your home folder
21:11	mittchel	You can simply get in home by: 'cd'
21:11	mittchel	?
21:11	mittchel	in there
21:11	mittchel	haha
21:11	seancorfield	mittchel: the pwd command will show you where you are and, yes, cd takes you home
21:11	mittchel	. ..
21:11	mittchel	thats the output lol
21:12	seancorfield	ok so: open -a TextEdit .profile
21:12	seancorfield	that will fire up TextEdit to edit that file (I hope )
21:12	mittchel	The file /home/.profile does not exist.
21:12	mittchel	we should create it first I guess
21:12	mittchel	:P
21:12	seancorfield	touch .profile
21:12	seancorfield	:)
21:13	seancorfield	(that's a command)
21:13	mittchel	operation not supported
21:13	mittchel	:P
21:13	seancorfield	really?
21:13	mittchel	Really haha
21:13	mittchel	MacBook-Air-van-Mittchel:home mittchel$ touch .profile
21:13	mittchel	touch: .profile: Operation not supported
21:13	amalloy	seancorfield: you had him write it to /home
21:13	amalloy	instead of to ~
21:13	mittchel	shouldn't I be in users?
21:13	amalloy	or at any rate he did it. dunno if you told him to
21:13	mittchel	in my user directory
21:14	mittchel	Google tells me this: The .profile file in MacOSX works exactly how you would expect. Simply create the .profile file in your user directory if it doesn't exist.
21:14	amalloy	cd ~
21:14	seancorfield	if he did `cd` he should be in his home folder
21:14	seancorfield	mittchel: when you typed cd (on its own), where did it put you? type pwd to find out
21:15	mittchel	damn I screwed
21:15	mittchel	You were right
21:15	mittchel	it brings me to /Users/Mittchel
21:15	mittchel	but I actually have a 'home' folder so I thought you meant that one
21:15	uvtc	mittchel: "in your user directory" means in /Users/yourname, not in /Users.
21:15	mittchel	It has a .profile yay haha
21:15	uvtc	mittchel: and the `cd` command takes you to /Users/yourname.
21:15	seancorfield	open -a TextEdit .profile
21:16	mittchel	yea it's open:D
21:16	mittchel	But nothing in there..
21:16	seancorfield	the fallibility of the english language
21:16	seancorfield	ok, add one line: export PATH=/Users/mittchel/bin;$PATH
21:16	seancorfield	then save it
21:16	seancorfield	then in Terminal: . .profile
21:16	seancorfield	that should reload it and then: which lein
21:17	seancorfield	should tell you /Users/mittchel/bin/lein
21:17	uvtc	seancorfield: I think that should be a colon, not a semicolon.
21:17	seancorfield	you are right - just realized - sorry
21:17	mittchel	MacBook-Air-van-Mittchel:~ mittchel$ . .profile
21:17	mittchel	-bash: /Users/mittchel/bin: is a directory
21:17	mittchel	hehe
21:17	seancorfield	export PATH=/Users/mittchel/bin:$PATH
21:17	seancorfield	sorry
21:18	mittchel	My terminal is doing some weird stuff
21:18	mittchel	MacBook-Air-van-Mittchel:~ mittchel$ ls -a
21:18	mittchel	-bash: ls: command not found
21:18	mittchel	while in my user folder:/
21:19	uvtc	mittchel: type: `which ls`
21:19	gfredericks	mittchel: are you sure you're using a computer?
21:19	mittchel	hahaha
21:19	mittchel	MacBook-Air-van-Mittchel:~ mittchel$ which ls
21:19	mittchel	-bash: which: command not found
21:20	seancorfield	sounds like the line in .profile is messed up
21:20	seancorfield	and you'll need to do: . .profile
21:20	uvtc	Hm. I'm not a mac person ... is there some extra dev or unix packages you need to install to get the usual suite of commands?
21:20	seancorfield	no
21:21	gfredericks	brew install linux
21:21	seancorfield	mac has a full unix system already
21:21	mittchel	Alright I edited .profile
21:21	seancorfield	ok, and: . .profile
21:21	seancorfield	but you may need to open a new Terminal window
21:21	seancorfield	we may have messed up PATH in this one :)
21:21	mittchel	when I type . .profile
21:22	mittchel	it just gives me a new line
21:22	mittchel	haha
21:22	seancorfield	yes, that's right
21:22	mittchel	which lein now right
21:22	seancorfield	yup
21:22	seancorfield	if it doesn't work, open a new Terminal window and try in there
21:22	mittchel	It works
21:22	mittchel	MacBook-Air-van-Mittchel:~ mittchel$ which lein
21:22	seancorfield	w00t!
21:22	mittchel	yay
21:22	mittchel	lein repl works
21:23	seancorfield	so now you can just type lein repl
21:23	seancorfield	yay :)
21:23	mittchel	@seancorfield: You my man are the best!
21:23	seancorfield	you're off to the races now!
21:23	mittchel	haha
21:23	seancorfield	sorry it was a bumpy ride
21:23	wkmanire	I want to be, the very best, like noone was before.
21:23	uvtc	seancorfield: but why couldn't he see `ls` or `which` earlier?
21:23	seancorfield	btw, one of the great things on a mac is iChat because you can screen share with it and do remote pair programming
21:24	seancorfield	uvtc: because we messed up the PATH variable
21:24	mittchel	To catch 'em all is my real test
21:24	uvtc	seancorfield: Ah.
21:24	seancorfield	remote debugging via irc can be hard...
21:24	mittchel	@seancorfield: Didn't really was bumpy. You guided me great
21:24	wkmanire	mittchel: What did you install?
21:25	seancorfield	wkmanire: lein shell script
21:25	mittchel	Leining, I heard
21:25	mittchel	haha
21:25	wkmanire	Which version?
21:25	wkmanire	I want to try to switch to 2 pretty soon.
21:25	mittchel	Alright. So I'll read this: http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html#FP and start with 4clojure.com
21:25	mittchel	1.7 if I'm correct
21:25	seancorfield	mittchel: have you used iChat yet? if you have Gtalk account, feel free to add me: seancorfield@gmail.com
21:26	seancorfield	i'll be happy to help via IM or even screen share if you want
21:26	mittchel	@seancorfield: haven't used yet. I'm going to add you. I would like to thank you for your help, you're very kind person :)
21:28	mittchel	Doesn't iChat come with the OS?
21:28	mittchel	It's not on my machine lol
21:28	seancorfield	any time... always happy to help folks new to clojure and new to mac
21:28	seancorfield	ah, on new macs it's iMessage or Messages or something
21:28	mittchel	Ahh alright
21:29	mittchel	I was having doubts between iMessage and facetime
21:29	mittchel	but iMessage is something you have to install yourself
21:29	mittchel	So I think its facetime
21:29	seancorfield	one of iChat or iMessage should be pre-installed
21:29	seancorfield	i would have expected it to be in your dock already
21:30	mittchel	It's still iChat on your mac?
21:30	seancorfield	i'm on 10.7.3 and have iChat
21:31	mittchel	Well
21:31	mittchel	iMessage allows you to send plain text messages to an Apple device
21:31	mittchel	I guess its facetime
21:31	seancorfield	yup, i haven't installed the beta of that yet
21:31	seancorfield	which mac os are you on?
21:32	mittchel	Mac OS X Lion 10.7.3 (11D50d)
21:32	seancorfield	(click on the apple, top left, select About this Mac...)
21:32	mittchel	Thats the only thing I do know
21:32	mittchel	haha
21:32	seancorfield	you should have iChat then
21:32	seancorfield	in the Applications folder
21:33	mittchel	For some reason I don't have it
21:33	mittchel	maybe I deleted it? don't remember lol
21:33	mittchel	I wouldn't delete an application, but you never know
21:33	seancorfield	out of curiosity, in a Terminal, type: open -a iChat
21:34	wkmanire	I'm not sure how to write unit tests for my seesaw based UI.
21:34	wkmanire	My code is only instantiating swing objects and showing them.
21:35	mittchel	it opens iMessage huh
21:35	wkmanire	All of the work is being done by seesaw.
21:35	mittchel	but that's not correct.. it can't be. cause I message is for plain text like to mobile phones and such
21:35	wkmanire	Is there any value in testing that the UI layer laying itself out correctly?
21:35	seancorfield	mittchel: it works for AIM, Yahoo! and Gtalk as well
21:36	ibdknox	wkmanire: it's really valuable to unit test pure UI code
21:36	seancorfield	you just have to add those accounts
21:36	ibdknox	wkmanire: correction: rarely
21:36	mittchel	It shows your google talk account
21:36	mittchel	but as soon as I'm trying to send the message it says user doesn't have imessage
21:36	mittchel	haha
21:36	wkmanire	ibdknox: You confused me.
21:36	seancorfield	i suppose i should upgrade then :)
21:37	ibdknox	wkmanire: sorry. It is rarely useful to unit test pure UI code
21:37	ibdknox	it's usually a lot of work, frail, and doesn't actually prove things are doing what you expect
21:37	mittchel	Are you able to share screen with iChat?
21:37	wkmanire	ibdknox: So I won't worry about it and I'll make sure there isn't anything in there that is test worthy.
21:38	wkmanire	ibdknox: Thank you.
21:38	xeqi	yeah, unit testing UI isn't worth the effort
21:38	seancorfield	yes, iChat does screen sharing... so I'm sure iMessage does too since it's the upgrade
21:38	xeqi	integration testing can be sometimes
21:38	seancorfield	the iMessage installer wants me to reboot so i'll be back in a bit
21:39	mittchel	Sure no problem
21:39	gfredericks	boot and reboot were in a boat. boot fell out. who was left?
21:40	wkmanire	gfredericks: re?
21:40	gfredericks	(def re? (partial instance? java.util.regex.Pattern))
21:40	ibdknox	lol
21:44	wkmanire	I just listened to a heavy metal version of Trolololol on youtube.
21:44	wkmanire	I was expecting to turn it off after a few seconds.
21:44	wkmanire	It ended up exceding all expectations.
21:44	uvtc	Is it too far off-topic to ask git questions in here?
21:45	amalloy	wkmanire: some good advice i got is to make sure your app can run in CLI mode or GUI mode. then it's easy to write functionality tests against the CLI version, and you can't accidentally entangle business logic with the shiny buttons
21:45	wkmanire	amalloy: Is that always practical?
21:45	wkmanire	amalloy: In this particular case it is.
21:45	amalloy	is unit testing always practical?
21:46	wkmanire	I don't know the answer to that question actually.
21:46	mittchel	What's the best way for me to build this: for (int i = 0; i < 10; i += 2) in Clojure using Loop
21:47	gfredericks	mittchel: why do you want to use loop?
21:47	mittchel	I actually have to
21:47	gfredericks	is this some 4clojure thing?
21:47	mittchel	No it's actually something for school
21:47	mittchel	a small part of an assignment
21:47	gfredericks	clojure is in school?
21:48	mittchel	Ye they wanted to bring in some functional programming
21:48	gfredericks	I saw clojure in B&N today for the first time
21:48	gfredericks	mittchel: and they wanted you to use clojure.core/loop specifically?
21:48	mittchel	Yep they do
21:48	mittchel	haha
21:49	amalloy	&#'clojure.core/loop
21:49	lazybot	⇒ #'clojure.core/loop
21:49	mittchel	They wanted me to transform some java code into clojure.. and I had to use loop for that part
21:49	gfredericks	amalloy: I realized that false fact because you were in my head telling me it. Your communications are conflicting.
21:49	amalloy	i'll work on it
21:49	gfredericks	now wtf is that a var. isn't it a special form?
21:49	gfredericks	&#"clojure.core/if
21:49	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading regex
21:50	gfredericks	&#'clojure.core/if
21:50	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.core
21:50	amalloy	it's a macro
21:51	gfredericks	mittchel: (loop [i 0] (when (< i 10) (do stuff) (recur (+ 2 i)))); though personally I would (doseq [i (range 0 10 2)] ...)
21:51	amalloy	on top of loop*
21:51	gfredericks	bah.
21:51	mittchel	Ahh
21:52	mittchel	Elementary is even easier than Easy right haha
21:53	mittchel	Now he's asking me to write my own predicate: not-zero?
21:53	mittchel	Time to go to bed
21:53	mittchel	haha
21:54	mittchel	Problem is that he does;t provide any documentation on that whatsoever
21:55	gfredericks	(def not-zero? (complement zero?))
21:57	mittchel	lol
21:57	mittchel	I was actually writing an if
21:58	mittchel	to check if(=( 0)
21:59	mittchel	how can you 'return false' in clojure?
22:00	mittchel	Like lets say (if(= x 0) x) I want it to return 0
22:00	mittchel	uhh true
22:01	gfredericks	(if (= x 0) true false)?
22:01	gfredericks	or you probably want the other way around
22:01	seancorfield	false is false, so is nil, true is true (so is anything that isn't nil or false)
22:01	seancorfield	mittchel: i'm upgraded to iMessage btw
22:02	mittchel	seancorfield: let me try to reach you:P
22:02	mittchel	(defn not-zeroo? [x]
22:02	mittchel	(if(>= x 0)
22:02	mittchel	true false))
22:02	mittchel	Why does it give me true when I give it a number of 5 and 0
22:03	mittchel	oh nevermind
22:03	seancorfield	x >= 0
22:03	mittchel	yeap
22:03	mittchel	I noticed
22:03	mittchel	its getting late
22:03	mittchel	haha
22:03	seancorfield	(def non-zero? (complement zero?)) ;; :)
22:03	mittchel	Yea gfredericks told me that one too
22:03	mittchel	It's so frustrating that I'm always thinking the hard way
22:04	mittchel	Sean Corfield is not available for iMessage
22:04	mittchel	haha
22:04	mittchel	Try to contact me: mittchel@gmail.com
22:04	PeregrinePDX	At some point I am sure I will learn to type clojure-jack-in instead of clojure-hack-in
22:05	mittchel	So basically complement does everything in the opposite way?
22:06	mittchel	seancorfield: is it working when you try to message me?
22:06	amalloy	PeregrinePDX: just bind it to C-c j
22:07	gfredericks	yeah complement takes a predicate (a true/false function) and returns a new function that does the opposite
22:07	gfredericks	complement is for opposite day
22:07	mittchel	Does it only take predicates?
22:07	mittchel	so (complement odd?) gives you even numers
22:07	mittchel	Well, a check for even numbers
22:08	seancorfield	mittchel: i added you - probably waiting for accept on the request?
22:08	mittchel	Are you using iMessage? (blue cloud logo)
22:08	gfredericks	mittchel: any function can be thought of as a predicate, due to the fuzzy definitions of truthy and falsy
22:10	gfredericks	I guess what I mean is that 'predicate' is a loose concept
22:10	PeregrinePDX	amalloy, hmm that's a good idea. Goes to figure out how to bind.
22:10	mittchel	gfredericks: thanks
22:10	mittchel	seancorfield: This is really weird, I don't think you need to accept people
22:12	seancorfield	oh, i'm used to ichat...
22:13	seancorfield	it said i couldn't send to you
22:14	mittchel	@seancorfield: You've got a google talk message.
22:14	mittchel	@seancorfield: you added me on jabber too
22:15	technomancy	PeregrinePDX: and read a few William Gibson novels while you're at it
22:16	technomancy	starting with Neuromancer, naturally
22:18	PeregrinePDX	Yay I figured out how to bind the key
22:19	wkmanire	Isn't there function that shows all of the members of Java object instances?
22:21	wkmanire	That was a crappy question. I remember reading somewhere in the seesaw documentation that you can list which functions will work on a swing object.
22:21	wkmanire	Gonna go look again.
22:21	amalloy	clojure.reflect/reflect?
22:22	clojurebot	vimclojure is http://kotka.de/projects/clojure/vimclojure.html
22:22	amalloy	thanks clojurebot
22:25	technomancy	is it just me, or is lein-cljsbuild's recommended new format needlessly verbose and boilerplatey for basic use?
22:25	technomancy	can't we just have good defaults?
22:25	wkmanire	I haven't tried to use it yet.
22:32	xeqi	&(vec (.getMethods :k))
22:32	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: getMethods for class clojure.lang.Keyword
22:33	Raynes	gf3: This is going to be the weirdest thing you ever hear me saying, but: cljbin seems to be down.
22:33	gfredericks	optimizing a nontrivial core.logic program is a fascinating process.
22:34	wkmanire	I have a list of maps, I want to pull one key from each item in the list into a seperate list. Should I use 'for' for that?
22:35	amalloy	or map. up to you
22:36	wkmanire	amalloy: I used map, thanks.
22:58	gfredericks	wkmanire: map is easier when your keys are keywords, since the key itself can be your map fn
22:58	wkmanire	gfredericks: That is what I did. thank you
22:59	wkmanire	gfredericks: Although it turned out to be the wrong way to do it.
22:59	gfredericks	drat.
22:59	wkmanire	it* being what I'm tryin to do.
22:59	wkmanire	I want to bind a list of maps to a listbox.
23:00	wkmanire	I need to provider a renderer to the listbox I think.
23:01	wkmanire	gfredericks: (seesaw.core/config! l :model ads :renderer :name) but this isn't working.
23:04	wkmanire	gfredericks: ads is a list of maps that contain addresses. I want to bind it as the model of a listbox from seesaw.core. I want it to show the name from each map.
23:05	wkmanire	I've tried a couple of things, I'm sure I'll figure it out here soon.
23:20	xeqi	wkmanire: have you seen https://github.com/daveray/seesaw/blob/master/test/seesaw/test/examples/cell_renderers.clj?
23:21	_KY_	How do I find the source code for function "assoc-in"?
23:21	amalloy	~def assoc-in
23:22	_KY_	Nice=)
23:22	technomancy	what's thiiiiiis? https://github.com/technomancy/lein-gnome
23:23	amalloy	technomancy: it's in your github account! if you don't know what it is, someone may have hacked you!!!
23:55	geoffeg_c	for clojurescript templating, is hiccups still a good choice? has something that's still under active development come along? https://github.com/teropa/hiccups
23:56	gfredericks	geoffeg_c: crate?
23:57	geoffeg_c	jesus, this ibdknox guy
23:57	tomoj	there is enfocus, but I haven't used it
23:59	bsteuber	ibdknox: congrats :) so nice to see this come to reality..
23:59	PeregrinePDX	Gah stoopid bees