#clojure – 2012-05-11

2012-05-11

00:02	Null-A	gnight
00:03	_sz	is there a way to rename/alias java classes? (for the purpose of accessing static members in a less verbose fashion)
00:03	_sz	the closest thing i've found is http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2852133/clojure-vars-and-java-static-methods
00:04	_sz	which solves everything (fields, methods) but inner classes
00:05	_sz	unfortunately, i'm trying to use this package (javacv) which uses a ton of those...
00:05	ivan	_sz: (import ... :as x)?
00:06	_sz	does that actually work with import?
00:06	ivan	er, I should shut up :)
00:06	gfredericks	no it doesn't
00:07	_sz	you got my hopes up there for a sec :)
00:12	_sz	so i understand it's just not possible at this point?
00:12	kenneth	hey so the repeat function, can i use it to repeat steps of an algorithm
00:13	kenneth	right now it's returning a collection with the same value n times, but i'd like each to execute the function once
00:13	brehaut	repeatedly
00:14	kenneth	(doc repeatedly)
00:14	brehaut	but its still probably not what you want
00:14	clojurebot	"([f] [n f]); Takes a function of no args, presumably with side effects, and returns an infinite (or length n if supplied) lazy sequence of calls to it"
00:15	PeregrinePDX	(doc iterate)
00:15	clojurebot	"([f x]); Returns a lazy sequence of x, (f x), (f (f x)) etc. f must be free of side-effects"
00:15	kenneth	right, i want that, but minus the fact that it's passing the return value to the next step
00:16	metellus	maybe dorun
00:16	mefesto	kenneth: isn't repeatedly the function you want?
00:17	metellus	he wants the seq to be realized
00:17	mefesto	,(take 5 (repeatedly rand))
00:17	clojurebot	(0.4176372286247386 0.20749523847155404 0.6640069389829846 0.8634799445247344 0.7359045500862336)
00:17	brehaut	if you want to maintain pure functional logic, you have to pass some value in form theprevious itteation into the current iteration, otherwise there wont be any state maintained
00:17	amalloy	&(repeatedly 5 rand) ;; mefesto
00:17	lazybot	⇒ (0.0868441376220952 0.055044885306857694 0.8384131280779435 0.7513873477507058 0.6478443025930312)
00:18	kenneth	i'm using clojurescript, is repeatedly not available in cljs?
00:18	dnolen`	kenneth: it is
00:18	kenneth	oh nvm
00:18	kenneth	i think i got it
00:21	PeregrinePDX	kenneth as brehaut constantly repeats to me. If you find a function that almost does what you want. Like repeat try (apropos 'repeat)
00:21	brehaut	it takes regexen too
00:21	PeregrinePDX	It'll find all the functions that contain repeat in the name. You often find some variant that does what you want.
00:22	kenneth	ooh neat trick
00:23	Cr8	hmm
00:23	Cr8	trying to do a getline method over a java.nio.ByteBufer
00:23	Cr8	it.. works, but advances the position in the source buffer by two lines instead of one somehow
00:24	PeregrinePDX	Yeah, he's told me apropos this or that at least 5 or 6 times over the last few days when I complain to him that something almost works but not quite.
00:24	PeregrinePDX	Eventually I m ight learn.
00:24	Cr8	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2685
00:24	brehaut	lol
00:25	Cr8	possibly just advancing twice as much as it should, the lines are the same length
00:29	Cr8	ah, misread the docs :)
00:33	dnolen`	http://github.com/swannodette/mori
00:35	ivan	nice name
00:36	brehaut	dnolen`: holy crap
00:37	dnolen`	brehaut: just getting started, I want to make this super easy for JS devs.
00:37	brehaut	dnolen`: i suspect you might just have changed my life
00:37	brehaut	having real collections in JS is something i have wanted for years
00:37	brehaut	real _and persistent_ collections is even better
00:39	dnolen`	brehaut: yes! open to any and all suggestions (forEach, each, etc.)
00:42	dnolen`	awesome
00:43	brehaut	this might give me a way to work on clj(s) for work stuff
00:43	dnolen`	brehaut: will be more useful for most JS devs once the reduce frameworks lands in CLJS
00:43	brehaut	ah true
00:43	dnolen`	brehaut: having to interact with lazy seqs for JS devs will probably be an non-starter.
00:44	brehaut	meh :)
00:44	dnolen`	brehaut: ha, I certainly have no problem w/ lazy seqs but people will be confused :)
00:44	brehaut	dnolen`: a lot of the work i do, nobody else touches my code
00:45	brehaut	and ive written my own half arsed lazy seqs in the past
00:45	dnolen`	brehaut: heh, yes it will be useful for folks wanting this kind of thing right away.
00:45	dnolen`	brehaut: just that for more general usage people will want strict behavior.
00:45	brehaut	dnolen`: does the default build not run through closure?
00:45	brehaut	yeah i agree
00:45	dnolen`	brehaut: it does
00:46	brehaut	oh, just not a minifier
00:46	dnolen`	brehaut: it does get minified.
00:46	brehaut	hmm. maybe something is funny with my env, as it certainly isnt here
00:47	dnolen`	brehaut: what do you mean? like you doesn't see an obfuscated file?
00:47	spjt	clojurescript will give you job security, because nobody else will ever be able to figure out your code
00:47	dnolen`	brehaut: obfuscated but pretty-printed
00:47	brehaut	dnolen`: yeah, nicely laid out
00:47	dnolen`	brehaut: yes, I need to bug emezeske about that.
00:47	dnolen`	brehaut: that's the correct output.
00:48	brehaut	i certainly couldnt make head or tail of the code, but its got a lot of whitespace :)
00:48	dnolen`	brehaut: haha no need to make heads or tails of the code :)
00:48	brehaut	no :)
00:48	brehaut	im just wondering how small it can get
00:48	dnolen`	brehaut: 21k gzipped right now :)
00:49	brehaut	cheers :)
00:51	dnolen`	emezeske: ping
00:53	emezeske	dnolen`: hey!
00:53	dnolen`	emezeske: I noticed that compiled files always pretty print
00:53	dnolen`	emezeske: which is a code size hit
00:54	emezeske	dnolen`: oh? that's weird.
00:54	emezeske	dnolen`: did anything about the :whitespace option handling change?
00:54	dnolen`	emezeske: not that I'm aware of.
00:54	dnolen`	emezeske: cljs test output is not pretty printed.
00:55	dnolen`	emezeske: seems like this might be getting set accidentally in lein-cljsbuild?
00:55	emezeske	dnolen`: cljsbuild sets some default values for the :compiler map
00:55	emezeske	dnolen`: including :pretty-print true
00:55	emezeske	dnolen`: I wonder if it should do that; probably not
00:56	dnolen`	emezeske: yeah I see that it's set to true
00:57	emezeske	dnolen`: I opened an issue: https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/issues/89
00:57	emezeske	dnolen`: I gotta run for now
00:57	dnolen`	emezeske: np, thx
00:58	brehaut	dnolen`: seems like persistent data structures would be ideal for farming off work to web workers
00:58	dnolen`	brehaut: sadly copying overhead destroys any benefits there I think.
00:58	brehaut	they still copy? i thought newer imps just froze?
00:58	brehaut	apparently i need to go do some reading
00:59	dnolen`	brehaut: would be awesome if that were true.
00:59	brehaut	if im just fabricating things in my head, it would be less awesome
00:59	dnolen`	brehaut: once problem is that engines like V8 convert to maps on freeze
00:59	dnolen`	one problem
00:59	dnolen`	which sucks
00:59	brehaut	yeah greatly
01:00	brehaut	JS is still the land of one hand giving, and the other taking away
01:00	dnolen`	brehaut: but yes, if there's ever a sensible fork/join like abstraction for JS, massive win.
01:03	dnolen`	brehaut: k, even from playing around just a tiny bit - being able to use CLJS api from JS just rules.
01:03	dnolen`	mori.into_array(mori.interpose("foo", mori.vector(1, 2, 3, 4)))
01:03	brehaut	thats awesome
01:04	dnolen`	brehaut: another JS plan I have in the works - Datalog for JS via core.logic
01:04	dnolen`	if the datomic team doesn't beat me to it of course.
01:04	brehaut	haha
01:04	brehaut	that'd be mind boggling
01:04	dnolen`	brehaut: I've been thinking about the new reduce framework and storing tuples as JS arrays
01:05	dnolen`	would be very efficient I think.
01:05	brehaut	i imagine so
01:05	brehaut	they are pretty well optimized if they arent growing
01:16	dnolen`	mori.first(mori.nth(mori.take(2, (mori.interpose("foo", mori.vector(1, 2, 3, 4)))), 1)) // => "f"
01:16	dnolen`	gotta love the fact that the API handles JS natives.
01:20	brehaut	dnolen`: is map missing?
01:21	dnolen`	brehaut: should be there.
01:22	dnolen`	brehaut: oops no
01:22	brehaut	mori.into_array(mori.filter(function (x) { return x % 2 == 0;}, mori.vector(1,2,3,4)))
01:22	brehaut	fantastic
01:24	dnolen`	brehaut: added map to master
01:24	brehaut	function fac (n) { return mori.reduce(star, mori.range(1, 5)); }
01:24	brehaut	also awesome
01:27	dnolen`	brehaut: http://github.com/swannodette/mori, added coffee example
01:27	brehaut	haha nice use of underscore :)
01:32	PeregrinePDX	Must not look at number 43
01:34	brehaut	_.get(_.hash_map(_.set([1,2,3]), "a"), _.set([1,2,3]))
01:34	brehaut	that has totally made my day
01:36	dnolen`	brehaut: pull request welcome :)
01:36	clojurebot	Anyone can hack! http://images.wikia.com/pixar/images/0/0d/Http_alliedow-files-wordpress-com_2011-01_anyone-can-cook-445x355.png
01:36	dnolen`	brehaut: if you have improvements changes in mind.
01:36	brehaut	dnolen`: if i have anything to add i shall :)
01:36	dnolen`	brehaut: excellent.
02:47	ambrosebs	is (set? nil) => false, (coll? nil) => false, (seq? nil) => false in CLJS to keep compatibility with CLJ?
02:48	ambrosebs	they have weird method bodies (defn set? [a] (when-not (nil? a) (satisfies? IPersistentSet a)))
02:48	ambrosebs	even tho nil satisfies ISet
02:48	robertstuttaford	my function is returning a clojure.lang.Delay instead of the map i'm expecting. how do i get the function that calls this function to block until it gets the map instead of getting the Delay immediately?
02:50	amalloy	&(doc force)
02:50	lazybot	⇒ "([x]); If x is a Delay, returns the (possibly cached) value of its expression, else returns x"
02:50	robertstuttaford	use the force!
02:50	robertstuttaford	thank you amalloy
02:50	amalloy	$findfn (delay 10) 10
02:50	lazybot	[clojure.core/deref clojure.core/force]
02:52	flijten	Hmm< I use a group by on a list, but a group by seems to return a map of vectors by default. Now my pop does exactly the opposite of what expected (return a collection without the last instead of without the first)
02:52	flijten	Is there anyway around that
02:53	robertstuttaford	hmm. even though i'm (force data) it's still getting a delay
02:54	robertstuttaford	the functions in question are doing IO - mysql and files-on-disk access
02:55	robertstuttaford	when i call them in repl they return the map. when i trigger the compojure routes in repl i get the Delay
03:08	johnfn	in clojure, is there a reason why mapping over a set or a vector gives a list back?
03:08	amalloy	it gives back a lazy sequence, which prints the same as a list in the repl
03:09	johnfn	right
03:09	johnfn	so is the reason just laziness?
03:09	amalloy	wellllll
03:09	johnfn	and is there a better way to transform a set than (set (map […]
03:09	amalloy	if it weren't for laziness, it could give back a set or a vector or whatever
03:10	johnfn	yea
03:10	amalloy	but the fact that it gives back just "something seqable" is a nice design choice - you just have one interface for generally dealing with collections of things
03:11	amalloy	so i can't say it's "just" because of laziness
03:11	johnfn	but aren't vectors and sets also seqable?
03:14	amalloy	yes. but because there's one interface for seqable-ness, map just takes in seqs, it doesn't know anything about vectors or sets or whatever
03:14	amalloy	so all it can give out is a seq
03:15	johnfn	hmm. that makes sense.
03:15	amalloy	if you like, you can write map-preserving-type
03:15	johnfn	yea
03:15	amalloy	never mind, my suggested implementation sucks
03:17	robertstuttaford	a question about delays… https://gist.github.com/2658093
03:23	dmi3y	Hi. While playing with example-projects in lein-cljsbuild I failed to start the ring server with 'lein ring server-headless'. Lein says 'ring is not a task'. How do I start the ring server with lein?
03:23	robertstuttaford	got lein-ring in your project?
03:23	robertstuttaford	shoots from the hip
03:24	dmi3y	yep, there's a dev-dependency on ring 0.7.0
03:31	kral	morning
03:32	mmarczyk	reducers in ClojureScript: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-250
03:32	johnfn	alright; why does #{(gensym) (gensym)} give me a duplicate key error?
03:34	hiredman	johnfn: because when the reader constructs the set #{(gensym) (gensym)} (gensym) is the same as (gensym)
03:34	echo-area	TimMc: I seem to find another bug of Clojure... This time about at least `keep'. I'm trying to make a simplest case to reproduce it
03:35	johnfn	hiredman: huh. yeah, that makes sense.
03:36	echo-area	TimMc: I'm encountering StackOverflowException; but by accessing the second item of the collection passed to `keep', it won't be thrown
03:38	echo-area	(inside the body of `keep')
03:39	hiredman	echo-area: it's not a bug, you've built up too many layers of lazy sequences, and realizing them all at once causes lots of method calls which blows the stack
03:40	echo-area	hiredman: How do you define "too many"?
03:42	echo-area	The program in which I'm having this issue tries to open a list of HDFS files. If I replace these HDFS files with local files, the issue goes away
03:43	echo-area	Nothing but the files, and the way to open the files, changes during that attempt to reduce program size but still keeping the issue.
03:44	echo-area	And hence the layer of lazy sequence is not changed in this course
03:50	fliebel	Raynes: How far by train from NYC?
03:52	amalloy	fliebel: a thousand miles by car, about the same by train probably
03:52	robertstuttaford	what's the idiomatic way to provide configuration data to a ring-based .war app?
03:53	robertstuttaford	stuff like database creds and filesystem paths
03:55	fliebel	amalloy: crap, america is big...
03:55	amalloy	fliebel: for me, NYC is 2800 miles
03:56	fliebel	europeans think 100km if far, americans think 100 years is long ago.
03:56	amalloy	chuckle
04:07	robertstuttaford	anyone using cemerick's friend?
04:24	bobry	is there a format function for clojurescript?
04:30	bobry	(format "%s" "foo") works fine in clojure, but raises an undefined error in clojurescript
05:34	robertstuttaford	javascript online/offline detection is a bag of pain :-(
05:58	ambrosebs	is there a type for protocols?
05:58	ambrosebs	just seems like a normal map to me
06:04	Madsy	exit
06:38	Borkdude	seems like light table is going to make it :) http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/306316578/light-table
06:54	robertstuttaford	that's awesome. chris writes great stuff, it'll be interesting to see what he comes up with
07:54	bobry	Is it possible to use enlive's 'deftemplate' with clojurescript?
08:01	solussd_	is it possible to pass a symbol into a macro to be used as the symbol to be bound in a let? i.e. so an anaphoric macro can have the user name the anaphor?
08:04	jwr7	How can I check if (seq s) will succee?
08:04	jwr7	s/succee/succeed/
08:05	jwr7	Or, more precisely — how can I check if something is a nonempty string?
08:07	kmicu	jwr7: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.string/blank_q
08:08	jwr7	kmicu: that fails when passed a number. I'll stick with (and (string? s) (seq s)) for now, I think...
08:09	vijaykiran	, (> (.length (str 9)) 0)
08:09	clojurebot	true
08:09	stuartsierra	solussd: yes
08:10	stuartsierra	when-let, if-let work that way
08:21	solussd_	stuartsierra: I meant to say, "the symbol to be bound to", e.g., a macro with args of, say, [a b] and call it like this: (mymacro (+ 1 2) x), and have my macro expand to (let x (+ 1 2)) …. etc
08:22	solussd_	stuartsierra: right now I just do a postwalk and replace the anaphor in the passed in expression
08:22	stuartsierra	solussd: sure
08:22	solussd_	can't seem to get the quoting right..
08:23	stuartsierra	(defmacro mylet [sym expr & body] `(let [~sym ~expr] ~@body))
08:24	solussd_	erm.. ok. i feel dumb.
08:24	solussd_	thanks
08:24	stuartsierra	no problem
08:25	solussd_	I was mentally starting from the '~captureme form. :)
08:27	stuartsierra	solussd_: Right, you're not doing symbol capture in this case.
08:28	solussd_	yup. no amount of elaborating on '~ would have saved me. missed the simple case.
08:30	robertstuttaford	why does CCW sometimes use clojure 1.2.1 for the repl instead of 1.3.0? bloody annoying
08:37	mmarczyk	letfn support for ClojureScript -- http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-251
08:38	mmarczyk	bug reports etc. would be much appreciated
08:43	dnolen	mmarczyk: ping
08:43	mmarczyk	dnolen: pong
08:43	mmarczyk	dnolen: have you seen CLJS-251?
08:44	mmarczyk	oh, you have :-D
08:45	pandeiro	anyone know how to include the clojure.tools.macro ns as a project dependency with lein
08:45	mmarczyk	dnolen: mori looks very cool :-)
08:45	dnolen	mmarczyk: yes :) will be cooler with the reducer framework.
08:46	mmarczyk	dnolen: oh yeah :-)
08:46	mmarczyk	dnolen: I was going to send you a pull req for list* but decided I'm not sure what to do with * :-P
08:46	stuartsierra	pandeiro: http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cclojure%20tools%20macro
08:46	bobry	how can i apply a function to each key of the map and build a new map out of that? it looks like 'core/map' only returns lists :(
08:47	dnolen	mmarczyk: yeah, when exporting I change the name.
08:47	stuartsierra	bobry: reduce over the map or use (into {} ..>)
08:48	dnolen	mmarczyk: so the reducer stuff is working with the core data structures?
08:48	mmarczyk	dnolen: it should
08:49	bobry	stuartsierra: thanks! i thought there's a generic function for that, something like Haskell's 'fmap'
08:49	mmarczyk	dnolen: as in Clojure
08:49	mmarczyk	dnolen: I'll put together a test suite this weekend -- with the stuff in the (comment ...) in reduce.clj as the starting point
08:50	mmarczyk	dnolen: no better way to find bugs than trying to use it, of course
08:50	dnolen	mmarczyk: did the comment stuff work?
08:50	mmarczyk	dnolen: yes
08:50	dnolen	mmarczyk: cool
08:51	flijten	Anyone willing to comment on my quicksort implementation in clojure? Specifically since it seems written with a non-functional programming mindset still. It's my first attempt at clojure: http://pastebin.com/jbGFCDAa
08:51	mmarczyk	dnolen: the part that's meant to work, that is -- there is one expression which fails in Clojure, IIRC
08:51	stuartsierra	Hey ClojureScript dudes!
08:51	stuartsierra	Try out this G.Closure third-party JAR:
08:51	stuartsierra	https://oss.sonatype.org/content/repositories/orgclojure-308/org/clojure/google-closure-library-third-party/0.0-790/
08:52	stuartsierra	Let me know if it works, and I'll release it to Maven Central Repos.
08:53	TimMc	bobry: (zipmap (map f (keys m)) (vals m)) perhaps
08:54	TimMc	keys and vals are guaranteed to provide the same ordering given an identical? object.
08:56	bobry	TimMc: looks good, thanks!
08:56	pandeiro	stuartsierra: thanks
09:05	mmarczyk	stuartsierra: that jar appears to be empty except for some metadata?
09:05	mmarczyk	hm, wait, let me double check
09:06	mmarczyk	oh no it isn't, sorry
09:06	mmarczyk	stuartsierra: ^
09:06	mmarczyk	no idea what happened to my download then... anyway, checking now
09:08	timvisher	hey all
09:08	mdeboard	hi
09:08	stuartsierra	mmarczyk: ok, let me know
09:09	timvisher	am i wrong in thinking that `into` is lazy?
09:09	timvisher	i want to have an infinite sequence with the first element being ungenerated
09:10	mmarczyk	stuartsierra: the test suite passes
09:10	timvisher	so i was mapping over an infinite generator and i tried throwing an into in front of it and i got an OOM error
09:10	mmarczyk	timvisher: it's not lazy
09:10	mmarczyk	timvisher: actually uses reduce -- and transients if possible
09:10	timvisher	mmarczyk: sweet
09:10	timvisher	so how would i put something fixed in front an infinite sequence?
09:11	mmarczyk	timvisher: cons ?
09:11	mmarczyk	timvisher: concat, lazy-cat
09:12	timvisher	ah yes
09:12	timvisher	i suppose i should remember those from my own post
09:12	stuartsierra	mmarczyk: thanks
09:12	timvisher	it's been so long since i had to care :)
09:12	mmarczyk	stuartsierra: np; some other code also works fine; haven't checked browser-repl though
09:13	timvisher	by the by, something changed about my emacs set up recently and i no longer get the helpful little hints in the mini-buffer about the function i'm typing out
09:13	timvisher	what mode is that?
09:13	robertstuttaford	stuartsierra: for a newbie, what does that jar do?
09:13	dnolen	mmarczyk: reducers stuff in and works http://github.com/swannodette/mori
09:13	stuartsierra	robertstuttaford: It's a package of the third-party extensions to the Google Closure Library. It includes stuff like goog.dom.query, a CSS selector ported from Dojo.
09:14	mmarczyk	dnolen: :-D
09:14	dnolen	stuartsierra: I'm assuming you all want to stick with the older GClosure for your projects?
09:14	robertstuttaford	ah ok. i noticed the gclosure included in cljs was smaller than the gclosure i'm using from svn
09:14	robertstuttaford	so this brings the thirdparty stuff back to the party
09:14	stuartsierra	dnolen: I was actually looking for reports on whether the latest GClosure (compiler and/or library) works with ClojureScript.
09:15	stuartsierra	robertstuttaford: Yes, we want to keep them separate because the licenses differ.
09:15	robertstuttaford	makes sense
09:15	duck1123	I've been using a more recent release, but I haven't tried the new patch yet
09:15	dnolen	stuartsierra: does as far as I know. bootstrap script has been updated.
09:15	robertstuttaford	is the library in cljs a direct export of google's? or is it a curated subset?
09:15	dnolen	stuartsierra: I noticed that HEAD does not work.
09:15	stuartsierra	robertstuttaford: direct export
09:15	dnolen	stuartsierra: I mean GClosure HEAD.
09:15	duck1123	I needed websocket support
09:16	robertstuttaford	ok cool
09:16	robertstuttaford	stuartsierra: i ask this of everyone who talks about cljs. have you had to generate externs for exported symbols in any of your cljs projects?
09:17	stuartsierra	dnolen: OK. Does the G.Closure library r1376 work?
09:17	robertstuttaford	i want to do the base-app + modules thing with cljs for both
09:17	dnolen	stuartsierra: is that the latest relese?
09:17	stuartsierra	yes
09:18	dnolen	stuartsierra: yes that works and is a part of CLJS 1211 release
09:18	robertstuttaford	my closure library is at rev 1843
09:18	dnolen	stuartsierra: meaning if you bootstrap that's what you get and what the tests run against.
09:19	stuartsierra	dnolen: OK, but the releases have a POM file that declares the dependency on G.Closure Lib r790.
09:19	stuartsierra	We need to keep these things in sync.
09:19	dnolen	stuartsierra: oh gotcha, I'm still a total Maven noob.
09:20	stuartsierra	dnolen: Are we still dependent on G.Closure compiler r1592?
09:20	dpritchett	would it be preferable to use "(partial = x)" or "#(= x %)" ?
09:21	dpritchett	they appear to work about the same
09:21	mmarczyk	stuartsierra: for some reason the browser-repl seems not to work with gclosure lib from that jar
09:21	dnolen	mmarczyk: you can no longer use file:// protocol
09:21	mmarczyk	dnolen: ohhhh of course
09:21	mmarczyk	dnolen: forgot about that
09:22	mmarczyk	dnolen: thanks
09:22	dnolen	stuartsierra: I always tests via bootstrapping. so I've run the test & browser REPL with GClosure lib r1376 and compiler-latest
09:22	dnolen	those work
09:22	stuartsierra	OK. Any idea what revision compiler-latest corresponds to?
09:24	stuartsierra	r1918 it looks like
09:24	dnolen	stuartsierra: yep
09:24	mmarczyk	stuartsierra: dnolen: still doesn't work for me -- "goog is not defined"
09:24	dnolen	mmarczyk: it's been confirmed to work for a lot of people.
09:25	mmarczyk	dnolen: I mean with stuartsierra's jar
09:25	stuartsierra	mmarczyk: Just checking - you know that JAR does not REPLACE the g.closure library JAR. It adds to it.
09:26	mmarczyk	stuartsierra: hm, I think that's what I did, but -- who knows -- let me start over
09:26	mmarczyk	stuartsierra: probably did sth stupid along the way.
09:34	timvisher	is there any way to get `lein ring server` to honor the checkouts directory?
09:34	timvisher	i'm still on lein 1
09:38	dpritchett	dnolen is there anything in the standard lib that I could use to do simple branching logic? I don't really like nested ifs
09:39	dpritchett	I am playing with 4clojure and I assume core.match isn't an option
09:39	dnolen	dpritchett: cond, case, condp
09:39	dnolen	dpritchett: do you need something more than that?
09:39	dpritchett	nah
09:39	dpritchett	i found case but it didn't seem right
09:39	dpritchett	i'll look up the others
09:40	dnolen	dpritchett: you probably want cond
09:40	rhc	speaking of those, i was looking for a simple way to say something like:
09:40	dpritchett	yes, cond is exactly what i wanted
09:40	rhc	give me the first item of this list that (f item) returns logical true for, or, give me elseitem if none return true
09:41	dpritchett	although even my cond solution will likely be wordier than necessary
09:41	rhc	best i could do is something like: (if-let [a (first (drop-while f items))] a elseitem)
09:41	dpritchett	trying to figure out how to deal with the fact that the last element of my accumulator could be either a single value or a collection itself http://www.4clojure.com/problem/31
09:41	dpritchett	so i'll just branch that out into conds as part of a reduction
09:43	ambrosebs	rhc: i'd use filter
09:44	rhc	ambrosebs: (first (filter f items)) ?
09:44	dnolen	rhc: (or (some pred coll) elseitem)
09:44	rhc	ahh dnolen, really nice
09:44	rhc	didn't even think of using 'or' in that way
09:44	ambrosebs	as long as no elements of ur collection are falsy that will work
09:45	rhc	'some' returns falsey on no match i guess?
09:45	rhc	ambrosebs: thats correct
09:46	dnolen	rhc: some returns the matching thing.
09:46	dnolen	rhc: if the matching thing is falsey, that snippet won't work.
09:46	dnolen	(or (some nil? coll) :wat), for example
09:47	fliebel	dnolen: core.logic does not use seqs much, but rather something more like Scheme cons cells, right?
09:47	rhc	err wait, some returns the result of pred for the first non-falsey value of pred
09:47	dnolen	fliebel: internally yes.
09:48	dnolen	rhc: except it will return the first nil, nil is falsey, so you'll get :wat.
09:48	dnolen	which is not what you want.
09:49	fliebel	dnolen: I was thinking about your tweet about speedups by using reducers.
09:49	dnolen	fliebel: unification
09:49	ambrosebs	rhc: (if-let [rs (seq (filter pred coll))] (first rs) :default)
09:50	ambrosebs	rhc: I think that's more correct that ur drop-while version
09:50	rhc	yeah i guess it doesn't get much better than that :)
09:50	fliebel	dnolen: I wonder if VisualVM gives you any insight about the seq overhead.
09:50	rhc	yeah not sure why i was using drop-while over filter
09:51	dnolen	fliebel: probably
09:51	ambrosebs	rhc: the problem with your example was you were testing on (first ...) instead of (seq ...)
09:51	fliebel	Hm, I might try that...
09:51	dnolen	fliebel: in core.logic if I recall the most costly thing now is unification.
09:52	dnolen	fliebel: switching to PersistentHashMap maps eliminated the cost of walk.
09:52	rhc	ambrosebs: why would that be a problem? wouldn't (first '()) be falsey?
09:52	ambrosebs	(first '(nil))
09:53	dnolen	fliebel: join the club :)
09:53	rhc	drop-while creates a '(nil) collection when it drops the whole collection?
09:53	ambrosebs	fliebel: :)
09:53	rhc	fliebel: which 300? (curious)
09:54	dnolen	fliebel: the implementation of miniKanren in Scheme.
09:54	dnolen	er, I mean rhc: ^
09:54	fliebel	rhc: MiniKanren, see the conj unconference for quote.
09:54	rhc	dnolen: ahh
09:54	ambrosebs	rhc: hmm I'm probably wrong, bit distracted atm :)
09:54	rhc	still need to watch that minikanren pres
09:55	ambrosebs	rhc: my point is test for emptyness with seq, not first
09:56	rhc	ambrosebs: hmm, ok, i need to read more about sequences i think
10:00	fliebel	watching again http://blip.tv/clojure/dan-friedman-and-william-byrd-minikanren-5936333
10:01	fliebel	(quote around 4:50)
10:06	stuartsierra	OK, updated G.Closure Library JAR for revision 1376 at https://oss.sonatype.org/content/repositories/orgclojure-314/org/clojure/google-closure-library/0.0-1376/
10:24	dnolen	`fogus: heya, can't merge your pull request, I changed the readme :P
10:25	`fogus	Oh! I can submit another PR
10:25	dnolen	using ClojureScript from JavaScript rocks! :)
10:25	dnolen	`fogus: thx
10:25	`fogus	np
10:30	dpritchett	so apparently my 250 char submission is equivalent to "partition-by identity"
10:31	`fogus	dnolen: I get a provide error on the latest "required "clojure.core.reducers" namespace never provided"
10:31	dnolen	`fogus: are you using checkouts?
10:32	dnolen	`fogus: Mori has to be built with CLJS HEAD
10:33	`fogus	whoops lein deps fail
10:33	`fogus	Got it now
10:36	dnolen	gonna need a tutorial on all the goodies tailored for JS devs
10:39	`fogus	Agreed
10:39	jasonjckn	rhickey: wrt to interactive development for reducers, it'd be nice if evaling (r/map …) in the repl actually executed the collection recipe, i can file a jira issue for that (?)
10:39	pandeiro	dnolen: look forward to that for sure
10:41	@rhickey	jasonjckn: no, not looking for more magic
10:41	pandeiro	the way that maven works, if i want to update the versions of certain deps in a jar, i must update the version of the jar in order to avoid overriding the original, correct?
10:41	jasonjckn2	disconnected
10:43	dnolen	could use some upvotes http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3959409
10:43	jasonjckn	done
10:44	dnolen	jasonjckn: thx
10:45	@rhickey	dnolen: got the reducers in there fast!
10:45	@rhickey	nothing like portable Clojure code
10:46	`fogus	dnolen: Fresh PR headed your way
10:46	brainproxy	dnolen: I've figure out a way to have node-clojurescript to transparently use a "detached JVM", so you'll be able to do `ncljsc -S <port>`
10:47	stuartsierra	Summary of new G.Closure Library JARs:
10:47	stuartsierra	https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure-dev/TiJGSmM1gTo/discussion
10:47	dnolen	rhickey: haha, yes - thanks to mmarczyk :)
10:47	brainproxy	and then when using ncljsc to run/compile scripts, or when using node require to load .cljs, you'll be able to spec a port number
10:47	dnolen	`fogus: merged
10:48	brainproxy	should dramaticaly improve the experience, i.e. compile times will feel pretty snappy so long as you've got the `ncljsc -S` process running in the background
10:48	`fogus	dnolen: Thanks!
10:53	jasonjckn	Does CollFold need to be moved into core.protocols namespace?
10:56	brainproxy	dnolen: mori looks cool, would you be interested in a pull request that would make the thing nodejs and ender friendly, or do you think that would best be served by a derivate project?
10:56	bartj	hello, anyone from a computer vision background here ?
10:56	mmarczyk	rhickey: dnolen: just attached a patch to CLJS-250 w/ latest flatten and mapcat; or should I make a new ticket?
10:57	fliebel	bartj: Not me, but I'm already curious to your question.
10:57	bartj	fliebel, pvt?
10:57	fliebel	bartj: pvt?
10:57	bartj	fliebel, er, private chat ?
10:58	fliebel	bartj: Well, if you want to, sure. But the chance that anyone has anything usefull to say is larger in channel, I'd say.
10:58	RickInGA	bartj: fliebel: I would like to eeavesdrop
11:00	bartj	fliebel, RickInGA channel is called bartj
11:14	cmcbride	dnolen: I get this error when I try to compile mori
11:14	cmcbride	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2688
11:15	dnolen	cmcbride: you need to compile with CLJS HEAD
11:15	cmcbride	I cloned the cljs repo in to the checkout folder
11:16	cmcbride	is there something more I have to do?
11:20	dnolen	wow reducers work is impressive
11:20	dnolen	https://github.com/swannodette/mori
11:20	dnolen	look at the reducer numbers
11:22	RickInGA	dnolen: reducer numbers?
11:22	RickInGA	the times?
11:26	askerOfDumbQuest	Guess I am not the only dumb one.. did they really schedule the atlanta code camp for the same weekend as georgia high school graduations?
11:33	fliebel	bartj: https://github.com/quil/quil
11:34	bartj	fliebel, thanks again!
11:35	gtrak	curious, what's with all the magic numbers in generated clojurescript? looking at mori.js specifically
11:37	TimMc	Hmm, this might be a viable approach for Java programmers needing to catch checked exceptions thrown by Clojure (if RTE-wrapping were removed): http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2010/08/on-removing-java-checked-exceptions-by.html
11:38	TimMc	(The first part shows how to throw "surprise" checked exceptions in Java; the second part shows how to catch them.)
11:41	TimMc	I mean, it is perverse -- but it works.
11:41	devn	lol, reducers in cljs already?
11:42	gtrak	TimMc: that's pretty awesome, the chucks thing
11:43	jasonjckn	amalloy_: currying iterate seems useless, albeit not harmless. However currying repeat would be harmful, because the core implementation has [n x] and [x] as oppose to [n x] and [n].
11:43	jasonjckn	amalloy_: a consistently design would be to only allow currying for stuff that has coll as last param
11:44	jasonjckn	not harmful*
11:53	halgari	gtrak: if you mean things like fn1254 = function()...then that's just auto generated ids. The compiler has a auto-incrementing counter so that when you need a temp variable you just call gensym and it creates a unique symbol for you.
11:56	gtrak	for an example, in function qb(a,b){ this.I = a; this.A = b; this.o = 0; this.g=15990906}
11:56	cmcbride	I just did some underscore vs mori benchmark
11:57	halgari	gtrak: in that case.... Idk
11:57	cmcbride	underscore is still much faster
11:57	cmcbride	is this because it is using native reduce?
11:59	cmcbride	time(function(){mori.reduce(sum, mori.filter(mori.is_even,(mori.range(100000))))})
11:59	cmcbride	264ms
12:00	cmcbride	time(function(){_.reduce(_.filter(_.range(100000),function(num){ return num % 2 == 0; }), sum, 0)})
12:00	cmcbride	12ms
12:00	_KY_	Enclojure project run error: "no main class found" -- what should I do?
12:00	jasonjckn	amalloy_: you there?
12:05	jsabeaudry	What is the proper way of supporting positioned head requests on files using noir?
12:07	technomancy	amalloy_: someone pointed me to a problem with ordered on openjdk 8 if you are interested
12:08	jsabeaudry	aka the "range" header?
12:09	_KY_	Enclojure project run error: "<no main class found>" -- what should I do?
12:11	cmcbride	I got mori down to 95ms by using reducers and using my own is_even function, not bad
12:12	technomancy	amalloy_: specifically on the lambda branch
12:14	mmarczyk	devn: reducers in CLJS = copy, paste, adjust protocol & protocol method names, comment out fork/join stuff :-)
12:20	jonaskoelker	^^ TimMc: surprise checked exceptions---do the pop up from behind the couch when you turn on the light and go "surprise! Con-crash-tulations!"
12:30	mmarczyk	dnolen: ping
12:30	dnolen	mmarczyk: ping
12:30	dnolen	oops pong
12:31	mmarczyk	:-)
12:31	dnolen	mmarczyk: what's up?
12:32	mmarczyk	dnolen: new reducers stuff @ cljs-250 -- sort of wondering about the process, i.e. reopen / new ticket for updates like this?
12:32	mmarczyk	dnolen: more interestingly
12:33	mmarczyk	dnolen: CLJS-247 -- protocol method test inlining
12:33	TimMc	jonaskoelker: I hope so!
12:33	dnolen	mmarczyk: at this point we should see if we can't just get you commit rights to the CLJS repo :D
12:33	mmarczyk	but, um, I need to find a lost window... just a sec
12:34	mmarczyk	:-)
12:35	mengu	nah
12:35	mengu	uhm sorry
12:36	gfredericks	dnolen: I just cloned mori and ran the build command and it gives an error about not finding the reducers ns
12:36	mmarczyk	dnolen: well, that would be marvellous :-)
12:36	gfredericks	dnolen: nm
12:36	dnolen	gfredericks: everyone keeps saying that even tho the build instructions are quite specific :)
12:36	mmarczyk	dnolen: though with you being super-responsive as you are, not necessarily much of a speedup :-)
12:36	gfredericks	first tell dnolen something is wrong, then read the README
12:36	dnolen	mmarczyk: I'll ask around.
12:37	dnolen	mmarczyk: so about CLJS-247?
12:37	mmarczyk	ok, found my lost window now
12:37	mmarczyk	dnolen: a sanity check, sort of
12:38	uvtc	I just noticed a change from Clojure 1.3 to 1.4 that I don't see mentioned in <https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/changes.md>. With 1.4, I can now use standard libs (such as clojure.string) without needing to `require` them (just as long as I fully qualify func names).
12:38	mmarczyk	dnolen: so would you like to just inline the whole -foo ?
12:38	dnolen	mmarczyk: no
12:38	dnolen	(null test && bit-mask && call direct) \|\| protocol-fn
12:39	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, makes sense
12:39	hiredman	uvtc: seems unlikely, most likely some tool you are using is loading them
12:39	uvtc	hiredman: I just tried it via `java -cp path/to/clojure.jar` ...
12:40	mmarczyk	dnolen: I think I might actually put the finishing touches on the benchmark runner first, if only to see some foolproof data on the result
12:40	dnolen	mmarczyk: k
12:40	uvtc	I've got 1.3 and 1.4 here, and clojure.string/split works with 1.4 without requiring it.
12:40	mmarczyk	dnolen: I love the reader branch, btw
12:41	dnolen	mmarczyk: the optimize-reader one?
12:41	mmarczyk	dnolen: yup
12:41	uvtc	hiredman:
12:41	uvtc	john@foil:~/opt$ java -cp clojure-1.4.0/clojure-1.4.0.jar clojure.main
12:41	uvtc	Clojure 1.4.0
12:41	uvtc	user=> (clojure.string/split "hello" #"l+")
12:41	uvtc	["he" "o"]
12:41	uvtc	user=>
12:41	dnolen	mmarczyk: yeah, even with all the perf enhancements still seems strangely slow.
12:41	dnolen	mmarczyk: but perhaps we should merge in what we have and continue to improve -since the gains are quite large.
12:41	mmarczyk	dnolen: I was actually going to suggest that :-)
12:42	hiredman	uvtc: the repl loads it, but if you launch your code outside of the repl it won't be there
12:43	hiredman	the repl loads clojure.java.javadoc for some reason, and that loads a few other things, which load other thrings, one of which is clojure.string
12:45	uvtc	hiredman: Weird. If I create a standalone script with a call to clojure.string/split in in --- and no require --- and then run it via `java -cp path/to/clojure-1.4.0.jar clojure.main foo.clj`, it works too.
12:45	dnolen	mmarczyk: merged optimize-reader into master.
12:45	mmarczyk	dnolen: great!
12:45	hiredman	uvtc: I would not recommend depending on it
12:46	uvtc	hiredman: Ok, thanks.
13:05	uvtc	Is there any convention regarding what you alias standard libs to when you `require` them? For example, maybe something like `:require [clojure.string :as c.s`?
13:06	uvtc	(oops, forgot closing `]` there)
13:07	uvtc	I've seen [clojure.string :as str], but that seems odd, given that there's already a core `str` function.
13:09	technomancy	yeah, but putting a slash after the str function is meaningless, so there's no chance of collision
13:09	uvtc	technomancy: Oh, right. Thanks. :)
13:42	mmarczyk	dnolen: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-252 -- first cut at a benchmark suite
13:42	dnolen	mmarczyk: excellent
13:48	mmarczyk	dnolen: ah, wait, I think I'll have a minor improvement
13:51	mmarczyk	dnolen: new patch attached
13:52	mmarczyk	hm, V8 runs circles around SpiderMonkey
13:53	dnolen	mmarczyk: you have to use the flags -m -n -a
13:53	mmarczyk	dnolen: you mean pass them to the js runtime in script/benchmark? what do they do?
13:54	dnolen	mmarczyk: turns on JIT, skips interpretation
13:54	dnolen	mmarczyk: only applies to spidermonkey
13:54	dnolen	mmarczyk: if you're testing spidermonkey you should be using the shell from the nightlies
13:55	mmarczyk	dnolen: I see, thanks
13:55	mmarczyk	dnolen: I'll update the patch to use it in the SM part then
13:55	dnolen	mmarczyk: oops already applied :)
13:55	mmarczyk	dnolen: :-)
13:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: mind applying the new patch on CLJS-250? mapcat for reducers :-)
13:59	mmarczyk	dnolen: also sent you a pull req w/ mapcat for mori
14:00	dnolen	mmarczyk: thx, merged
14:00	dnolen	added zippers and set ops to Mori
14:00	mmarczyk	zippers :-D
14:01	`fogus	Oh my! I go away for 90 minutes and Mori is already my favorite JS lib
14:01	TimMc	Better than jQuery?
14:01	TimMc	Better than Cornify?
14:01	mmarczyk	one might not be able to bring the ambrosia of macros to the JSers, but one can at least share the fire of PDSs
14:01	TimMc	haha
14:03	dnolen	mmarczyk: gotta do some other things but I'll apply those patches soon.
14:03	mmarczyk	dnolen: cool, thanks
14:07	mmarczyk	dnolen: any chance Wednesday next week might get recorded?
14:07	dnolen	mmarczyk: thickey is coming so fingers crossed?
14:07	mmarczyk	dnolen: oh good :-)
14:09	lynaghk`	damns clojure folks are fast at the retweets.
14:09	lynaghk`	= )
14:11	Borkdude	,(doc if-let)
14:11	clojurebot	"([bindings then] [bindings then else & oldform]); bindings => binding-form test If test is true, evaluates then with binding-form bound to the value of test, if not, yields else"
14:11	Borkdude	what is a binding? I assumed a name and a value, right?
14:12	Borkdude	,(if-let [a true, b false] :then :else)
14:12	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: if-let requires exactly 2 forms in binding vector in sandbox:>
14:12	lynaghk`	Borkdude: if-let and when-let only take one binding.
14:13	Borkdude	lynaghk`: then the doc of if-let is wrong, it should say binding
14:13	Borkdude	,(doc when-let)
14:13	clojurebot	"([bindings & body]); bindings => binding-form test When test is true, evaluates body with binding-form bound to the value of test"
14:13	lynaghk`	Borkdude: agreed =(
14:14	ibdknox	I wish it took multiple :p
14:23	dnolen	ibdknox: you're like hours away now!
14:23	ibdknox	dnolen: yeah :)
14:23	ibdknox	there's lots of craziness that has happened otherwise too :)
14:23	dnolen	ibdknox: can't wait to hear more about that
14:24	ache	where can i read about what ibdknox is working on?
14:24	ibdknox	http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/12/light-table---a-new-ide-concept/
14:24	ache	thanks!
14:25	ibdknox	dnolen: I'm going to get to chat with Tim O'Reilly at the beginning of June
14:25	dnolen	ibdknox: sweet!
14:25	ibdknox	talked with lots of very interesting people
14:25	mfex	hi all, a clojure library in a jar does not need to be aot-ed to be used from other jvm languages, right?
14:26	fliebel	dnolen: I still need to touch maven to run core.logic, right?
14:26	dnolen	fliebel: ?
14:26	ibdknox	mfex: from other languages? Yes it does
14:26	TimMc	ibdknox: Ah, you're at FooCamp or whatchamacallit?
14:26	technomancy	mfex: depends on the interface you want to expose
14:27	technomancy	mfex: if you make users consume it via clojure.lang.RT, then no AOT is needed.
14:27	fliebel	dnolen: I know I can add it as a dep just fine, but I mean, as a git checkout, I can't just use lein, right?
14:27	ibdknox	TimMc: yeah, I will be :) Which is an amazing opportunity. I'm very excited about it
14:27	dnolen	fliebel: all Clojure contribs are available from Maven central repo
14:27	dnolen	fliebel: you can just use lein
14:28	ibdknox	fliebel: you'd have to make a fake project.clj for it
14:28	ibdknox	fliebel: if you want it in your checkouts/ dir
14:28	technomancy	IIRC hugod has a plugin to make mvn checkouts work with lein
14:28	fliebel	I just want it as a project to hack on
14:29	ibdknox	dnolen: TimMc: I think I might get to talk to one of the main researchers on DARPA projects at SRI too
14:29	TimMc	Haha, sweet.
14:29	dnolen	ibdknox: haha wowzers
14:29	mfex	technomancy, I don't want to aot my library jar. Is supplying a small jar that is aot compiled as only a wrapper with a nicer interface a common solution to this?
14:29	amalloy	jasonjckn: yes, i wasn't sure whether to curry or what, but as you said it seemed at least harmless
14:30	technomancy	mfex: I've seen that done for distributing uberjars, but not for library consumption. no reason you couldn't make it work though
14:30	amalloy	technomancy: i guess i'm interested, but i don't know anything about jdk8
14:31	technomancy	amalloy: me neither
14:32	nDuff	mfex: ...heck, if you _really_ didn't want anything to be native AOT-compiled Clojure, you could have a Java wrapper that just does clojure.lang.RT calls
14:32	technomancy	mfex: you could always AOT a single ns and have that ns do a runtime require of the rest of your code
14:32	technomancy	that way you won't get bitten by the annoying transitive AOT behaviour
14:33	amalloy	jasonjckn (or anyone else): i'm having trouble testing my foldable Range: everything compiles fine, and mvn dependency:classpath points to an existing jsr166y jar, but when i run mvn test i get a ClassNotFoundException: jsr166y.ForkJoinTask
14:39	fliebel	> (solve-nqueens)
14:39	fliebel	()
14:39	fliebel	dnolen: ^
14:39	dnolen	fliebel: the one in bench.clj?
14:39	fliebel	yea
14:41	dnolen	fliebel: yeah I recall that one being broke
14:41	fliebel	dnolen: zebrao works, though.
14:42	dnolen	fliebel: will need to look into it at some point - probably a simple mistake.
14:42	jasonjckn	amalloy: I haven't had a chance to run mvn test yet, logically I don't know why that's happening
14:43	jasonjckn	amalloy: i'll get around to testing soon
14:43	jasonjckn	amalloy: you could always upgrade to java 7, it's possible rhickey never tested with jar
14:46	technomancy	going to release lein2 preview4 later today
14:46	technomancy	any last-minute issues to raise?
14:46	stuartsierra	jasonjckn: Clojure 1.5.0-SNAPSHOT declares jsr166y as a "scope = provided" dependency, not sure why.
14:47	technomancy	if you're using Leiningen from a checkout, could you pull and give it a run-through?
14:47	stuartsierra	But try removing <scope>provided</scope> from pom.xml to see if that fixes your problem.
14:47	jasonjckn	ah
14:47	jasonjckn	I wondered what that did
14:50	hiredman	stuartsierra: because you don't want to drag jsr166y around if you are running on 7+
14:51	stuartsierra	hiredman: yes, I know
14:51	stuartsierra	but I don't see what good declaring it in the first place dose
14:51	jlongster	cjfrisz: hey, dnolen pointed me to clojure-tco. I'm working on compiling to CPS-ified javascript. How big is the performance hit in clojure-tco?
14:51	stuartsierra	oh, I see, it's available at compile time
14:52	hiredman	jlongster: the real problem with "cps" clojure is it destroys interop by adding trampolines to every call
14:53	jlongster	hiredman: I know, but I'm working in another Lisp. plus, that can be circumvented, since the only problem is callbacks.
14:54	acagle	¯/flush
15:04	amalloy	jasonjckn: updated to jdk7, the fj stuff seems to be working and now i can debug my code. thanks
15:05	jasonjckn	amalloy: great, i'm curious when you say 'debug' do you mean print debugging? or do you use something else?
15:05	fliebel	dnolen: Maybe I'm inadequate at using VisualVM, but I can't seem to find any trace of seq overhead.
15:06	amalloy	in this case i mean "inspect the stacktrace"
15:06	amalloy	"and hope to remove bugs"
15:06	fliebel	that is, it crashes most of the time...
15:09	Raynes	fliebel: Hahaha, man, I love talking to people who don't know USA geography.
15:10	amalloy	Raynes: you should hang out in america, then
15:10	fliebel	Raynes: ?
15:10	amalloy	we've got tons of them
15:10	fliebel	I know where alabama is, now
15:10	Raynes	The depths of hell.
15:11	fliebel	Raynes: Any luck with the DVD hacking?
15:11	Raynes	I don't know what you mean by 'hacking'.
15:12	amalloy	$dict hacking
15:12	lazybot	amalloy: adjective: Short and interrupted, broken, jerky; hacky.
15:12	fliebel	Raynes: making your DVD player accept any DVD.
15:13	Raynes	I haven't really tried. Not sure I care enough.
15:13	TimMc	lazybot: wat
15:13	fliebel	Raynes: But you do care enough to have me send a DVD player over? :P
15:14	Raynes	I was asking if anybody had a random spare dvd player/optical drive lying around. My life shall continue without it for the time being. :P
15:14	fliebel	Raynes: I have. It's just a little tricky to get it to you.
15:15	rhc	Raynes: what city do you live in? i might be able to ship you one
15:16	Raynes	Eldridge, AL, if you can call that a city.
15:17	rhc	i have this old apex player i never use that's region unlocked (i think)
15:17	Raynes	In case anyone is wondering what the context of this discussion is, I have some region two discs and nothing that will read them, hence me asking people for spare drives because I'm cheap.
15:18	dnolen	fliebel: which fns float to the top in VisualVM?
15:18	fliebel	Raynes: If you send me a cake for my birthday, I'll send you the player :)
15:18	fliebel	dnolen: ... the pushbackreaders read method. Something is not right.
15:19	Raynes	I'd send you a box of hohos.
15:19	fliebel	$dict hoho
15:19	lazybot	fliebel: Word not found.
15:19	Wild_Cat	Raynes: depending on how region checking is implemented in your drive, you may be able to read the discs with VLC
15:19	Raynes	Wild_Cat: RPC_2.
15:19	Raynes	So nope.
15:19	Wild_Cat	(otherwise, look for a RPC-1 firmware for your drive on http://forum.rpc1.org/ )
15:20	amalloy	$google hostess hoho
15:20	lazybot	[Ho Hos® from Hostess Cakes (Our Products)] http://www.hostesscakes.com/hohos.asp
15:20	fliebel	Raynes: That'll do.
15:20	Wild_Cat	Raynes: I know, but some drives, despite being region-locked, can still have their protection bypassed depending on the software you use. Others, however, will refuse to even list the contents of the disc.
15:21	Raynes	This drive will list the contents of the disc, but wont let anything read those contents.
15:21	Raynes	I have another drive that does the same thing.
15:22	Raynes	I could temporarily set the drives region to region two and then rip everything off of all of the region 2 discs I've found myself with and then set it back, since I have 5 switches.
15:22	Raynes	drive's*
15:22	Raynes	That's probably the easiest option.
15:23	Raynes	I've only got these few discs and I shouldn't be getting any others.
15:23	fliebel	Raynes: Oh, so no hohos for me?
15:23	Wild_Cat	Raynes: maybe. (sigh. once again, just pirating the bloody thing would be easier -- thank you, big content >.< )
15:23	Raynes	:\
15:23	Raynes	fliebel: Fraid not.
15:24	Raynes	I think ripping the discs is actually legal as long as I don't distribute the content (which I don't plan to do), so that's something.
15:24	Wild_Cat	region locking has to be the stupidest thing ever.
15:26	Raynes	Wild_Cat: Agreed.
15:27	Wild_Cat	it is, in fact, the one reason why I keep hating Nintendo, in spite of all the objectively awesome things they've done otherwise.
15:31	Raynes	gfredericks: There is a wild Raynes.
15:32	Raynes	gfredericks: One gas station, a few houses, and more churches than blades of grass.
15:35	dnolen	mmarczyk: reducer improvements applied to master
15:39	glitch99_	I'm having a hard time understanding this syntax.. I'm using incanter and there is a ($where {:le 3}) example where it chooses data by checking if it's less than 3. How do french braces work in clojure
15:39	stuartsierra	That's something specific to Incanter.
15:39	stuartsierra	{:le 3} is just an ordinary Clojure map.
15:40	glitch99_	stuartsierra: ahh
15:42	jasonjckn	is there a lein deps equivilent in maven?
15:42	jasonjckn	it's not grabbing the jsr166y
15:43	stuartsierra	jasonjckn: mvn dependency:copy-dependencies
15:43	stuartsierra	What are you trying to do?
15:43	jasonjckn	i'm getting forkjoin classnotfound
15:43	jasonjckn	even though I changed pom.xml as you said
15:44	stuartsierra	What are you running?
15:44	jasonjckn	trying again
15:44	jasonjckn	mvn test
15:44	amalloy	stuartsierra: i had the same issue until i upgraded to jdk 7
15:44	amalloy	mvn dependency:build-classpath returned a classpath that pointed at a locally-fetched version of jsr166y, but mvn test still got ClassNotFound
15:45	jasonjckn	yah still getting the error
15:45	amalloy	jasonjckn: check the output of build-classpath just to verify you and i were having the same problem?
15:46	stuartsierra	jasonjckn: cannot reproduce here, with JDK 1.6
15:46	amalloy	i'm on ubuntu 11.04, if that turns out to be relevant
15:46	Raynes	amalloy: Old softwares.
15:47	jasonjckn	[INFO] Dependencies classpath:
15:47	jasonjckn	/Users/jason/.m2/repository/org/codehaus/jsr166-mirror/jsr166y/1.7.0/jsr166y-1.7.0.jar
15:47	jasonjckn	Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: jsr166y.ForkJoinTask
15:47	stuartsierra	jasonjckn: Have you run ./antsetup.sh
15:47	stuartsierra	?
15:48	jasonjckn	yes
15:48	jasonjckn	not since changing pom.xml
15:48	stuartsierra	What's in the maven-classpath.properties file?
15:49	jasonjckn	stuartsierra: I just regenerated it before you asked
15:49	jasonjckn	maven.compile.classpath=/Users/jason/.m2/repository/org/codehaus/jsr166-mirror/jsr166y/1.7.0/jsr166y-1.7.0.jar
15:49	jasonjckn	i'll try mvn test again
15:49	stuartsierra	ok that looks right
15:51	jasonjckn	stuartsierra: mvn test still failing
15:51	stuartsierra	amalloy, jasonjckn: Which specific JDK are you using? And which version of Maven?
15:51	jasonjckn	stuartsierra: java version "1.6.0_31" Apache Maven 3.0.3
15:51	stuartsierra	jasonjckn: Which JDK: Sun/Oracle, OpenJDK, ...?
15:52	jasonjckn	stuartsierra: vendor: Apple Inc
15:52	stuartsierra	ok
15:52	stuartsierra	Trying myself with an empty ~/.m2
15:52	jasonjckn	amalloy: i installed sun jdk7 but java -version still remains 1.6, did you do anything else? maybe i'll reboot
15:53	stuartsierra	jasonjckn: You probably need to configure which JDK to use by default.
15:53	duck1123	jasonjckn: IIRC, there's a settings pannel where you have to drag 7 up to the top
15:53	devn	Raynes: Should I be expecting this in noir 1.3.0-beta6 => escape-html already refers to: #'hiccup.core/escape-html in namespace: hiccup.page
15:54	jasonjckn	duck1123: k thanks
15:54	Raynes	devn: Probably not. Open an issue.
15:54	devn	Raynes: I'm requiring [noir.server :as server]
15:54	devn	Raynes: will do
15:55	stuartsierra	OK, even with an empty ~/.m2, cannot reproduce the problem.
15:55	duck1123	jasonjckn: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-57423014-263/how-to-install-and-uninstall-java-7-for-os-x/
15:55	jasonjckn	fixed it
15:56	jasonjckn	trying mvn test gaain
15:56	amalloy	stuartsierra: i was using openjdk, but now i'm on jdk7 and not having problems
15:56	stuartsierra	ok
15:57	ibdknox	devn: that sounds like you're doing a :use on hiccup.something?
15:57	amalloy	jasonjckn: the stuff i had to do on ubuntu is probably not relevant to what you have to do on macos. i had to move around some symlinks and call update-alternatives a few times
15:57	stuartsierra	amalloy: Clojure is currently passing on Hudson on OpenJDK 1.6, http://build.clojure.org/job/clojure-test-matrix/77/
15:58	jasonjckn	amalloy: nods i managed to switch it
15:59	jasonjckn	my unit tests passed, ship 1.5 quick!!
16:03	stuartsierra	Clojure should still work all the way back to JDK 1.5 (not including ForkJoin stuff) but starting with Clojure 1.5.0 it can only be BUILD on a 1.6 JDK.
16:05	amalloy	stuartsierra: since it's open-source friday, could i trouble someone to look at http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-993 and http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-992? rich asked for a range reducer, and i want to make sure these didn't slip under the radar to get implemented by someone else
16:05	stuartsierra	amalloy: I'll take a look in a few minutes.
16:08	stuartsierra	amalloy: Are the patches on 993 replacements or accumulations?
16:08	amalloy	accumulations
16:08	stuartsierra	ok
16:09	jasonjckn	stuartsierra: amalloy: I just put my patch up at http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-994
16:09	jasonjckn	i've never contributed to clojure, so not sure if i'm suppose to do anything else
16:10	stuartsierra	jasonjckn: Have you sent in a signed C.A.?
16:10	jasonjckn	can I e-mail the agreement?
16:10	jasonjckn	no
16:10	amalloy	jasonjckn: no, signed on dead trees only
16:10	jasonjckn	ah that's annoying
16:10	stuartsierra	So far Rich has always asked for signed paper.
16:11	amalloy	ah, i like the invoke-2-fns thing, jasonjckn
16:11	jasonjckn	is there a contributors list for that trouble at least?
16:11	jasonjckn	ah i see
16:11	amalloy	~contribute
16:11	clojurebot	contribute is http://clojure.org/contributing
16:12	jasonjckn	that's a lot more people than I thought
16:12	brehaut	not everyone on there has actually contrubuted to clojure though; just signed the form
16:12	amalloy	it's not the case that everyone with a CA has contributed
16:13	amalloy	that's the clojure/dev list, which is a lot larger and less powerful than clojure/core
16:13	jasonjckn	how backwards
16:13	technomancy	looks like the total number of contributors is 79
16:14	jasonjckn	do I get git credentials?
16:14	brehaut	jasonjckn: i signed the form despite not having anything to contribute because its a bloody long way for snail mail from new zealand and didnt want to get caught waiting if i did have something to contribute
16:14	jasonjckn	nods
16:14	technomancy	jasonjckn: become Rich Hickey
16:14	jasonjckn	is he the only one?
16:14	brehaut	his hair has a seperate account
16:14	brehaut	its also got credentials
16:15	amalloy	jasonjckn: you (can) get commit rights to contrib, but not to core, i believe
16:15	samaaron	You could make a hammock out of Rich's hair
16:15	jasonjckn	I would be okay with reincarnating as Rich Hickey's hair, with git credentials
16:15	jasonjckn	it's already quite an honor
16:15	stuartsierra	Only 4 people have commit access on Clojure.
16:15	jasonjckn	k
16:15	amalloy	any changes you want to make go through JIRA patches, to be applied by someone else
16:15	technomancy	stuartsierra: is one of them named Hudson?
16:16	jasonjckn	as far as benevolent dictators go, rhickey is not too bad
16:16	stuartsierra	technomancy: yes
16:16	stuartsierra	And we're under strict instructions not to commit anything until Rich has personally OK'd it.
16:18	technomancy	clojurebot: bus factor is best if you try not to think about it. (https://github.com/clojure/clojure/graphs/contributors)
16:18	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
16:25	TimMc	How come there are all those other committers?
16:25	TimMc	(Or at least authors.) Were pull requests accepted once upon a time?
16:25	technomancy	TimMc: git format-patch maintains authorship data
16:25	stuartsierra	Git preserves the original patch author separate from the committer.
16:25	TimMc	Ah, right.
16:33	zanes	Getting this stacktrace when I try to lein autotest. Anyone seen this before? https://gist.github.com/cdaf4ee623e33d78f1db
16:35	muhoo	there's a big difference from wanting to create a cool language, and wanting to lead an open-source community
16:39	fliebel	muhoo: What makes you say that?
16:39	muhoo	earlier discussion about bus-factor, commmit access, jira, etc
16:41	cmcbride	if I have a string, is there a function in core that will give me all possible sub-strings of length n
16:41	fliebel	cmcbride: partition
16:41	cmcbride	I guess I could do a greedy regex
16:42	cmcbride	that doesnt seem like all of them
16:42	cmcbride	if I have "abcd", I want "ab", "bc", "cd"
16:42	fliebel	&(partition 3 1 "abcd")
16:42	lazybot	⇒ ((\a \b \c) (\b \c \d))
16:42	cmcbride	partiton would just give me "ab" "cd"
16:42	fliebel	&(partition 2 1 "abcd")
16:42	lazybot	⇒ ((\a \b) (\b \c) (\c \d))
16:42	cmcbride	oh oops
16:42	cmcbride	thanks
16:43	jasonjckn	i did some really basic benchmarking of reducers http://pastebin.com/DSm69GZu very impressive performance
16:43	jasonjckn	(dual core machine)
16:44	adeelkh	hey dnolen, mori looks really cool. what potential applications does it have, in your opinion? i mean, why wouldn't you just use clojurescript? :)
16:45	amalloy	jasonjckn: yeah, pretty impressive. and it should get better still if you compare multiple layers of lazy sequences like (reduce + (map inc (filter even? (range 10000))))
16:45	jasonjckn	nods
16:45	dnolen	adeelkh: thanks
16:45	amalloy	cmcbride: you want combinations
16:45	technomancy	zanes: I think lein-autotest is abandoned
16:45	dnolen	adeelkh: I could but that means people I code w/ have to know Lisp.
16:45	amalloy	no, never mind
16:46	dnolen	adeelkh: Mori is a good way to get a lot of the good stuff w/o everyone needing to understand Clojure.
16:46	kmicu	(let [{k v} {:k 1}] println (str k v))
16:47	dnolen	adeelkh: I think Mori is useful for any JS application where you want to have more sensible state management and perf is not the ultimate concern - which is a lot of JS programs :)
16:47	jasonjckn	amalloy: http://pastebin.com/iz8bzrdw with a map
16:47	zanes	technomancy: Okay, thanks. Seems like midje is the new hotness?
16:48	muhoo	is it expected behavior that a noir middleware would run 3 times per each request? https://www.refheap.com/paste/2684
16:48	adeelkh	dnolen: ah, ok. makes sense.
16:48	jasonjckn	amalloy: the clojuer.core one is 2x slower, the others are more around 1.3x slower :)
16:48	technomancy	zanes: I think most people just use clojure.core with editor integration
16:49	technomancy	zanes: it's easy to make clojure.test tests run whenever you save in swank-clojure, for instance
16:49	dnolen	adeelkh: I would certainly use it over any other existing FP JS lib, Mori leverages CLJS so it's chock filled with data structures and tools :)
16:49	technomancy	zanes: no reason lein-autotest couldn't be upgraded to work with clojure.test though
16:49	technomancy	dakrone: ^ right?
16:50	zanes	technomancy: You mean with a post save hook or something like that?
16:50	technomancy	zanes: yeah
16:50	zanes	Got it. Okay.
16:50	brehaut	dnolen, adeelkh: has datastructurse at all puts it way above most JS libs
16:50	muhoo	i am looking to build a noir handler that has side-effects, is why i'm asking
16:51	muhoo	sorry, a middleware
16:51	technomancy	zanes: in fact, clojure-test-mode's "run these tests" command will prompt you to save anyway, so if you're using Emacs, that's the way to go
16:51	technomancy	seems like the whole "watch for filesystem changes and run X" should be extracted into its own library if it hasn't been already though; I know of at least three independent reimplementations
16:52	adeelkh	dnolen: what other FP libraries are there for javascript?
16:53	stuartsierra	technomancy: I've offered my Lazytest stuff as a contrib. Brenton Ashworth has been working on refactoring it into an independent library.
16:53	zanes	I didn't even know about clojure-test-mode.
16:53	dnolen	adeelkh: wu.js, underscore.js, fun.coffee (which I did), http://osteele.com/sources/javascript/functional/, probably many others.
16:53	technomancy	stuartsierra: cool. did your implementation poll, or did it hook into OS-level filesystem notifications?
16:53	stuartsierra	poll
16:54	technomancy	yeah, lot sure the latter is possible without JNI =(
16:55	adeelkh	dnolen: cool thanks. a while ago i was looking for a functional approach to DOM manipulation but there doesn't seem to be anything
16:56	dnolen	adeelkh: what kind of DOM manipulation?
16:56	nDuff	technomancy: believe it is currently, though that's a relatively new thing
16:57	technomancy	nDuff: nio or some such?
16:57	technomancy	nio2?
16:59	nDuff	Thought it was newer than NIO... but not having much luck googling it up; all the JNI-based libraries are adding a fair bit of clutter.
16:59	technomancy	I think NIO2 is new in java 7
16:59	adeelkh	dnolen: well basically something along the lines of clojurescript's clojure.browser.dom, but in javascript
17:00	dnolen	adeelkh: i see
17:03	gozala	dnolen: question regarding mori and publishing to npm
17:04	dnolen	gozala: go ahead
17:04	gozala	dnolen: are you ok with adding package.json to your repo ?
17:04	dnolen	gozala: yep
17:05	gozala	but then you'll need to install npm and create an account to publish
17:05	gozala	I can send pull request with package.json
17:05	dnolen	gozala: excellent
17:05	dnolen	gozala: I have npm installed, just need to create an account I guess.
17:06	gozala	dnolen: oh and there is on more thing
17:06	gozala	exports have to be set on exports object
17:07	gozala	is that something that can be done with cljsbuild ?
17:08	dnolen	gozala: not really, we really need a shell script any how.
17:08	dnolen	gozala: to wrap mori.js in a function closure when running the browser.
17:08	dnolen	running in
17:09	dnolen	gozala: so one script for the node build, and one for browser I think.
17:09	clojurebot	ClojureScript is https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript
17:09	gozala	dnolen: btw readme sugests that non-reducers based map/filter is faster or do I missunderstand ?
17:10	dnolen	gozala: that's comparing native fp ops on primitive JS arrays.
17:11	dnolen	gozala: reducers will be faster than the CLJS seq oriented map/filter/reduce
17:11	gozala	dnolen: Oh right I have not realized it was native arrays
17:12	gozala	dnolen: BTW did you had chance to digg into reducers yet ?
17:12	dnolen	gozala: compared against primitive arrays that pretty impressive - given that there's a lot left to optimize in CLJS.
17:12	dnolen	gozala: nope
17:12	dnolen	gozala: but using them is easy :)
17:12	gozala	dnolen: I'm just trying to figure out if you can consume reducer lazily
17:13	gozala	or to be more precise pause consumption and then continue from wherever you left
17:14	dnolen	gozala: I don't know
17:15	gozala	Yeah maybe you can tweet after ny clojure ;)
17:15	ivan	jasonjckn: where did your r/repeat come from in the benchmark?
17:16	jasonjckn	ivan: uncommitted code http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-994
17:16	ivan	hah, thanks
17:23	TimMc	$mail foxdonut Urgh, Spring's JDBC thing apparently just splits on semicolons! http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3768815/spring-datasourceinitializer-splits-trigger-ins-sql-by-delimiter
17:23	lazybot	Message saved.
17:23	technomancy	ha ha
17:23	TimMc	:-(
17:27	gozala	dnolen: I can't load mori seems to dislike t("mori.rmap", reducers.map);
17:27	gozala	I suspect that may be something with my cljs version
17:28	cmcbride	gozala: you need the HEAD version of clojurescript
17:28	dnolen	gozala: mkdir checkouts, clone clojurescript into it.
17:29	gozala	dnolen: also version here has same issue https://github.com/swannodette/mori/downloads
17:30	dnolen	gozala: oops looking into it
17:35	weavejester	Does anyone have any ideas about the best way to bind a cached value to a record representing a ref?
17:35	uvtc	How can I access the docstring for a namespace? For a simple project named "foo", using lein 2, the following doesn't work: `(doc foo.core)`
17:35	weavejester	I mean, I could have the cache inside the record, but that seems inelegant.
17:36	technomancy	,(doc (the-ns 'clojure.string))
17:36	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol>
17:36	weavejester	uvtc: doc works for me. Have you required the namespace?
17:36	technomancy	oops
17:36	weavejester	,(doc clojure.string)
17:36	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.string>
17:36	uvtc	weavejester: This is after starting up `lein repl`
17:37	weavejester	uvtc: I just tested it. Try (require 'foo.core) then (doc foo.core)
17:37	dnolen	gozala: thx, should be fixed now
17:37	uvtc	weavejester: Thanks, but that's still not working. It's telling me: foo.core=> (doc foo.core)
17:37	uvtc	ClassNotFoundException foo.core java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run (URLClassLoader.java:217)
17:37	gozala	I'll give it a try
17:38	uvtc	weavejester: I've got ":main foo.core" in my project.clj. Trying it without that.
17:38	weavejester	uvtc: Have you required it?
17:39	weavejester	Not sure it would work if you were inside the ns...
17:39	uvtc	weavejester: Yes, I required it.
17:39	weavejester	Anyway… :) - caching… should a cache be stored inside a record, or weakly refed to the record?
17:39	weavejester	uvtc: When I load up a REPL and do: (require 'ragtime.core) (doc ragtime.core) it works
17:40	gozala	dnolen: can you successfully build it ?
17:40	dnolen	gozala: yes
17:40	dnolen	gozala: but you need to build against ClojureScript HEAD
17:40	gozala	I just got SEVERE: /Users/gozala/Projects/mori/.lein-cljsbuild-compiler-0/mori.js:4: ERROR - required "clojure.core.reducers" namespace never provided
17:40	gozala	goog.require('clojure.core.reducers');
17:40	gozala	but it seems to work though
17:40	dnolen	gozala: lein cljsbuild clean
17:41	dnolen	gozala: try again
17:41	gozala	ahh
17:41	uvtc	weavejester: Hm. Thanks. I tried removing the ":main foo.core" from project.clj, but that didn't help. My ns macro in core.clj looks like this: (ns foo.core
17:41	uvtc	"docstring for this namespace"
17:41	uvtc	(:require fs.core clojure.string))
17:41	gozala	dnolen: so does exports now create globals ?
17:41	gozala	in js version I mean
17:42	weavejester	uvtc: When I write: (ns foo.core "foobar") (doc foo.core) it works for me too.
17:42	dnolen	gozala: no ^:export just prevents GClosure symbol obfuscation
17:42	weavejester	uvtc: What version of Clojure are you running this under?
17:42	uvtc	weavejester: 1.4 (just a sec, afk)
17:43	dnolen	gozala: everything in mori.js gets added to a mori object. However all the CLJS stuff is global, thus we want a fn closure for that stuff.
17:43	gozala	dnolen: BTW I still see that warning even after `lein cljsbuild clean`
17:44	dnolen	gozala: did you change project.clj?
17:44	weavejester	uvtc: Ah, okay, I see the error.
17:44	gozala	I pulled from your repo
17:44	dnolen	gozala: which version of lein are you using?
17:44	pcavs	I have a core.logic question: How would I create a relation that would be similar to (== (> a b) true) or (== (> a 5) true)
17:45	dnolen	pcavs: look at core.logic.arithmetic
17:45	gozala	dnolen: 1.7.0
17:45	dnolen	gozala: and that error occurs while building?
17:45	pcavs	dnolen: muchos gracias
17:46	gozala	yeah I run lein deps && lein cljsbuild once release
17:46	uvtc	weavejester: {back} sorry about that.
17:46	felideon	muchas*
17:46	uvtc	weavejester: What error do you see?
17:46	gozala	and I see it durinc compilation
17:46	weavejester	uvtc: The error exists in 1.4, not in 1.2. Let me check 1.3.
17:47	dnolen	gozala: and you made the checkouts directory?
17:47	weavejester	uvtc: In 1.3 too… at least when I'm in the namespace
17:47	dnolen	gozala: and cloned clojurescript into it?
17:47	gozala	yeap and symlinked to lates clojurescript
17:47	dnolen	gozala: try w/o symlink, just clone it into checkouts
17:48	gozala	ok
17:48	gozala	it worked with symlinks before though
17:48	dnolen	gozala: your probably right, but better just to do exactly the same steps.
17:48	weavejester	uvtc: Odd. "doc" doesn't seem to work for namespaces at all for 1.3 and above. You could do (:doc (meta (the-ns 'foo.core)))
17:50	weavejester	uvtc: (find-doc "foo.core") works
17:51	uvtc	weavejester: going straight into the repl and trying `(:doc (meta (the-ns 'foo.core)))` just returns nil for me.
17:51	gozala	dnolen: ok so it has to do something with symlink or with my clone
17:51	gozala	it works with just cloning
17:51	dnolen	gozala: cool
17:51	weavejester	uvtc: Try just (meta (the-ns 'foo.core)) then?
17:52	gozala	dnolen: thanks
17:52	weavejester	uvtc: Or even (the-ns 'foo.core)
17:52	uvtc	weavejester: Hm. `(find-doc "foo.core")` also returns nil.
17:52	uvtc	weavejester: as does ` (meta (the-ns 'foo.core))`
17:52	uvtc	weavejester: (I know I've got a docstring in there, and I know I'm in the right directory...)
17:53	weavejester	uvtc: Are you sure you have that namespace? If you do (the-ns 'foo.core) does it exist? Have you required it?
17:53	uvtc	weavejester: foo.core=> (the-ns 'foo.core)
17:53	uvtc	#<Namespace foo.core>
17:53	weavejester	uvtc: And it has no metadata?
17:53	uvtc	weavejester: foo.core=> (meta (the-ns 'foo.core))
17:53	uvtc	nil
17:53	gozala	dnolen: symlinks work as well it's just I have fetched but forgot to merge in my cljs dir
17:54	weavejester	uvtc: Try: (ns foo.core "foobar") (meta (the-ns 'foo.core))
17:55	dnolen	gozala: gotcha
17:55	uvtc	weavejester: foo.core=> (ns foo.core "foobar") (meta (the-ns 'foo.core))
17:55	uvtc	nil
17:55	uvtc	nil
17:56	jasonjckn	in the reducers blog post rhickey writes "Those IFn.LLL, DDD etc primitive-taking function interfaces can now spring to life."
17:56	jasonjckn	can someone expand on this?
17:56	uvtc	weavejester: Just triple-checked. I'm in the correct dir, looking at the correct files. My lein repl prompt tells me I'm in: "foo.core=>".
17:57	jasonjckn	I googled LLL and DDD and nothing came up, except that blog post
17:57	ivan	jasonjckn: long long long, double double double?
17:57	jasonjckn	that was my guess too
17:57	jasonjckn	but I still don't know what he wants for reducers..
17:57	TimMc	jasonjckn: Have you looked at IFn.java in clojure core?
17:57	jasonjckn	Is IFn.LLL a real thing right now?
17:58	jasonjckn	nop,i'll check it out
17:58	weavejester	uvtc: Maybe the problem is that ns doesn't overwrite
17:58	uvtc	weavejester: I can call the little functions I've defined in my core.clj file, and at the top of that file is the `(ns foo.core "docstring for this namespace" (:require fs.core clojure.string))`. Maybe I should try removing those :requires...
17:58	TimMc	&org.clojure.IFn$LOL
17:58	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.clojure.IFn$LOL
17:58	stuartsierra	jasonjckn: The nested classes in IFn are interfaces for primitive-taking functions.
17:58	TimMc	&clojure.lang.IFn$LOL
17:58	lazybot	⇒ clojure.lang.IFn$LOL
17:58	weavejester	uvtc: Try a completely new namespace: (ns another.core "foobar") (meta (the-ns 'another.core))
17:59	uvtc	weavejester: ok, just a sec.
17:59	stuartsierra	amalloy: I can't screen your patches until I know enough about the reducers implementation to understand them. But I've passed the word around.
17:59	uvtc	weavejester: lein new another ... changing the project.clj to use 1.4...
18:00	weavejester	uvtc: Don't actually create a file for it. Just generate the namespace in the REPL.
18:00	weavejester	uvtc: Literally just type: (ns another.core "foobar") (meta (the-ns 'another.core)) in your REPL.
18:00	uvtc	weavejester: Oh. Whoops. Ok.
18:01	uvtc	weavejester: foo.core=> (ns another.core "foobar") (meta (the-ns 'another.core))
18:01	uvtc	nil
18:01	uvtc	{:doc "foobar"}
18:01	weavejester	uvtc: Okay, that's good :)
18:02	weavejester	uvtc: So you must be creating your other namespace without a docstring somehow.
18:02	uvtc	weavejester: :). Also, now my prompt says "another.core=>"
18:02	weavejester	uvtc: Change out of it with (in-ns 'user)
18:02	uvtc	weavejester: ok.
18:03	weavejester	uvtc: What does your foo.core ns declaration look like?
18:03	uvtc	weavejester: tried again (doc foo.core), (require 'foo.core) (doc foo.core) but got the same as before.
18:03	uvtc	(ns foo.core
18:03	uvtc	"docstring for this namespace")
18:03	uvtc	weavejester: ^
18:04	weavejester	uvtc: Try restarting your REPL? Maybe ns doesn't overwrite the docstring and you loaded a version without the doc.
18:05	uvtc	weavejester: Thanks for the suggestion, though, I've been restarting it as we've been trying here.
18:05	weavejester	uvtc: Yes, it looks like ns doesn't override existing namespace metadata.
18:05	weavejester	uvtc: Are there any other instances in your source tree where you create the foo.core namespace?
18:06	uvtc	weavejester: no, this is just a trivial project I created for testing stuff.
18:06	weavejester	uvtc: Hm… So there's no other (ns foo.core) around?
18:07	weavejester	uvtc: Not even in, say, your test directory?
18:07	uvtc	weavejester: Just what lein2 put there (core_test.clj).
18:07	uvtc	weavejester: trying this with a clean new project...
18:08	weavejester	uvtc: You could also try seeing if Lein is hooking into any processes that are left running.
18:08	uvtc	weavejester: john@foil:~/temp/another$ ps -ef \| grep -i lein
18:08	uvtc	john 28956 20523 0 18:07 pts/2 00:00:00 grep --color=auto -i lein
18:08	uvtc	john@foil:~/temp/another$ ps -ef \| grep -i java
18:08	uvtc	john 28958 20523 0 18:07 pts/2 00:00:00 grep --color=auto -i java
18:08	weavejester	uvtc: Try it with a new project I guess...
18:09	uvtc	weavejester: user=> (doc another.core)
18:09	uvtc	ClassNotFoundException another.core java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run (URLClassLoader.java:217)
18:09	uvtc	weavejester: user=> (require 'another.core)
18:09	uvtc	nil
18:09	uvtc	user=> (doc another.core)
18:09	uvtc	ClassNotFoundException another.core java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run (URLClassLoader.java:217)
18:09	weavejester	uvtc: Yeah, but we know the doc macro is broken for namespaces
18:09	weavejester	uvtc: Try the (meta (the-ns 'another.core))
18:10	weavejester	uvtc: Ensuring it has a docstring, of course.
18:10	uvtc	weavejester: thanks for the clarification. user=> (meta (the-ns 'another.core))
18:10	uvtc	{:doc "docstring for another "}
18:10	uvtc	weavejester: works!
18:10	weavejester	uvtc: I wonder what's different to your other project then...
18:10	uvtc	weavejester: Oh, I hadn't added ":main another.core" yet.
18:11	uvtc	weavejester: trying that. ...
18:11	uvtc	weavejester: another.core=> (require 'another.core)
18:11	uvtc	nil
18:11	uvtc	another.core=> (meta (the-ns 'another.core))
18:11	uvtc	nil
18:12	weavejester	uvtc: Curious. Raise it as an issue on Leiningen, perhaps.
18:12	uvtc	weavejester: thanks alot for your time!
18:12	pikapp	if i were to implement my own version of Long.valueOf(String) what would be a good way of doing it?
18:12	weavejester	uvtc: No problem. I'll send a message to clojure-dev about clojure.repl/doc
18:12	pikapp	whoops, wrong room
18:13	weavejester	uvtc: Ah, it's already a known issue: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-902
18:14	patchwork	my app is depending on two different versions of hiccup, and I don't even have it listed in my dependencies!
18:14	uvtc	weavejester: thanks for that link. (Looks like it's slated to go in 1.5?)
18:14	patchwork	How is this possible?
18:15	patchwork	Is there a way to see what is depending on a certain jar?
18:15	weavejester	uvtc: Or 1.4.1. My guess about the Leiningen :main issue is that it creates a blank namespace before loading your source file.
18:16	weavejester	uvtc: And the ns macro doesn't add any metadata if the namespace already exists.
18:16	technomancy	patchwork: `lein deps :tree` if you're using lein2
18:16	technomancy	patchwork: otherwise `lein pom && mvn dependency:tree`
18:16	uvtc	weavejester: Ok. Will add an issue in lein's issue tracker at github. Thanks.
18:17	weavejester	uvtc: No problem :)
18:17	patchwork	technomancy: perfect! thank you
18:18	weavejester	What do people think about putting atoms or other refs inside records or types?
18:18	di-csuehs	I'm beating my head against something stupid, trying to deploy a noir app in Tomcat
18:18	weavejester	It kinda ruins their print-ability.
18:20	pcavs	dnolen: do you have any examples for how to use core.logic.arithematic?
18:20	weavejester	I wonder if a cache pointer counts as metadata...
18:20	dnolen	pcavs: not handy no, are you confused by something?
18:20	eggsby	I want to see 'SEND MORE MONEY' in core.logic
18:21	dnolen	gozala: merged your changes, thx!
18:21	eggsby	google is my friend
18:21	eggsby	https://gist.github.com/2364695
18:22	dnolen	eggsby: which is slow in the current core.logic, would be faster w/ cKanren extensions.
18:22	pcavs	dnolen: I think my problem is understanding how goals, run*, and relational vs non relational all interact. I think I just need to sit down with my reasoned schemer and read some more.
18:22	technomancy	weavejester: I've wanted memoize's cache atom to be stored in metadata since forever
18:23	gozala	dnolen: cool! you're welcome ;)
18:23	eggsby	tbh core.logic is way over my head and I have no idea how to approach it (it being my first introduction to logic programming), I'm in love w/ core.match, though
18:23	weavejester	technomancy: I guess it is data about data
18:23	dnolen	eggsby: great!
18:24	amalloy	weavejester: i put atoms and refs inside records and types whenever i have a record or type that needs an atom or a ref :P
18:24	weavejester	amalloy: It kinda spoils printability though… and I only need the atom for a cache.
18:25	eggsby	what is the best way to dip my toes into the logic programming world, it seems pretty all or nothing from what I can tell, whereas pattern matching I can integrate into stuff I've already written
18:25	eggsby	logic programs are pretty much purely logical programs, right?
18:27	eggsby	and another unrelated note... is there some lein plugin I can use to simplify stacktraces so they don't include the clojure implementation logic in the trace? (i.e. no .java files)
18:27	technomancy	oh crap
18:27	technomancy	I forgot to merge that branch of clj-stacktrace
18:27	weavejester	eggsby: I think they need to operate in their own little world, but their outputs can be used by anything.
18:28	technomancy	it's been sitting there forever =\
18:28	weavejester	technomancy: I occassionally have times when that happens.
18:28	weavejester	technomancy: Occassionally ;)
18:28	dnolen	gozala: so will 'npm publish' trigger the build part?
18:28	technomancy	weavejester: I'd feel worse if it weren't my own branch =)
18:29	technomancy	oh that's right; I was waiting on longbottom.
18:29	gozala	dnolen: nope
18:29	gozala	you have to run npm run build first
18:30	gozala	dnolen: although it's a good point I think there might be a hook on npm to atuomate that
18:30	gozala	on publish
18:30	dnolen	gozala: k I think published it
18:31	gozala	dnolen: so if you change in package.json scritps bulid to prepublish
18:31	gozala	it should do it on npm publish
18:32	dnolen	gozala: so change "build" key to "prepublish" ?
18:33	gozala	yeah
18:33	tomoj	really excited about mori. getting this error trying to build: https://gist.github.com/7dab21323787b9ef35b5
18:33	tomoj	clues?
18:33	tomoj	cleaned my clojurescript, pulled master, and rebootstrapped it
18:34	dnolen	tomoj: are you sure you pulled master?
18:34	ivan	maybe you have another closure-library in your classpath?
18:34	dnolen	Mori 0.1.0 on npm
18:34	tomoj	2469b7c0
18:34	tomoj	sweet
18:35	tomoj	src/cljs/clojure/core/reducers.cljs exists in $CLOJURESCRIPT_HOME
18:36	dnolen	tomoj: are you building via creating checkout dir and cloning into it?
18:36	dnolen	checkouts dir I mean
18:36	tomoj	my bad
18:36	tomoj	thanks
18:37	tomoj	was too excited to read apparently
18:45	devn	hmm, how does clojure.pprint/code-dispatch work
18:45	dnolen	tomoj: haha, makes sense. Mori is something JS devs can start using at work today :)
18:46	devn	i remember using (with-pprint-dispatch code-dispatch string)
18:46	devn	is that still the idea? the earmuffs are gone these days
18:49	devn	nevermind
18:49	devn	i needed to call read-string on it :\
18:51	dakrone	technomancy: correct
18:52	technomancy	dakrone: re: autotest?
18:56	dakrone	technomancy: yea, albeit a fair about of work, I'll put it on the todo list
18:56	dpritchett	been staring at mapcat for a long time trying to figure it out
18:56	dpritchett	specifically (apply map list [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]])
18:57	dpritchett	i read the source so i understand that it's (apply concat (apply map f colls)) i just don't quite get it
18:58	technomancy	dakrone: maybe you can get zanes to do it =)
18:58	zanes	technomancy: Too late. I'm happy with clojure-test-mode. ;)
18:58	technomancy	oops, too late =)
18:59	ivan	&(map list [1 2] [3 4])
18:59	lazybot	⇒ ((1 3) (2 4))
18:59	ivan	&(map vector [1 2] [3 4])
18:59	lazybot	⇒ ([1 3] [2 4])
18:59	dpritchett	(i dont really understand that result ivan
19:00	dpritchett	ohh, i didnt understand how map worked with multiple collections
19:00	dpritchett	i only ever used it with a single collection
19:00	ivan	yep, it can do that :)
19:14	uvtc	weavejester: filed the issue, <https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/575>, but technomancy pointed out that it's actually a bug in Clojure (#CLJ-130)
19:15	weavejester	uvtc: Okay :)
19:33	KognizantKog	Hi, guys. I am currently learning clojure and was wondering if anyone knew of any examples of using XNA with ClojureCLR? I've tried searching, but came up with nothing. Just curious.
19:52	locojay	hi i m new to clojure. how can i map a function over a sequence the function takes two args one fixed and an iterator. (defn funtomap [val1,val1] (+ val1, val2)) now need to map funcmap to a vec [1,2,3] with a fixed value for val1 say 5 to get [6,7,8]
19:53	thearthur	locojay: (repeat [5])
19:54	thearthur	err (repeat 5)
19:54	thearthur	no []
19:55	thearthur	(map + [1 2 3] (repeat 5))
19:55	locojay	thearthur: thanks
20:05	gfredericks	,(map (partial + 5) [1 2 3])
20:05	clojurebot	(6 7 8)
20:06	thearthur	,(8)
20:06	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
20:07	thearthur	,'(8)
20:07	clojurebot	(8)
20:07	tomoj	is it impossible to extend ISeqable etc to the arguments objects in js?
20:08	thearthur	hehe the 8) renders as an emoticon in Colloquy, clojure bot is happy to see me
20:09	tomoj	`(function() {return arguments.__proto__;})(1) == Object.prototype` returns true :'(
20:11	thearthur	,`(function() {return arguments.__proto__;})(1) == Object.prototype`
20:11	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
20:11	thearthur	,(function() {return arguments.__proto__;})(1) == Object.prototype
20:11	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
20:11	tomoj	in javascript of course
20:12	thearthur	,(symbol ":'(")
20:12	clojurebot	:'(
20:12	gfredericks	,:-D
20:12	clojurebot	:-D
20:13	thearthur	much easier to make clojurebot happy than sad
20:16	locojay	theatur : strange this does not work in my case on this https://gist.github.com/2663252 mq is zmqhelper
20:16	locojay	https://github.com/imatix/zguide/blob/master/examples/Clojure/zhelpers.clj
20:17	locojay	mq/send-more does not even get called
20:19	hiredman	~map
20:19	clojurebot	map is hard
20:19	hiredman	~map
20:19	clojurebot	map and the other sequence functions used to be lazy, but with the advent of chunked sequences, may or may not be lazy, consult your local ouija board
20:19	hiredman	~map
20:19	clojurebot	map is hello, my name
20:19	hiredman	~map
20:19	clojurebot	map is lazy
20:19	thearthur	locojay: map is lazy
20:19	hiredman	thats the one
20:19	locojay	ah k
20:20	thearthur	~last
20:20	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
20:20	gfredericks	clojurebot: last is not lazy
20:20	clojurebot	In Ordnung
20:23	locojay	~doseq
20:23	clojurebot	doseq is like for, but for side effects instead of values
20:23	locojay	and works in this case :)
20:40	muhoo	~greek
20:40	clojurebot	Excuse me?
20:40	muhoo	~opa!
20:40	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
20:40	muhoo	it's irish tome
20:40	muhoo	to me
20:43	amalloy	can someone confirm for me that in (extend-type Foo Proto (proto-fn [this] (.blah this))), the `this` object is typehinted so that .blah is fast?
20:49	tomoj	so I'm thinking of exposing apply in mori (I have an underscore.js mixin for this currently). but it would be nice if it would work on `arguments` too. unfortunately it seems impossible to extend ISeqable to arguments. any workaround ideas? I thought of having `mori.arguments()` return the arguments as an array, but that seems impossible too
20:49	dnolen	amalloy: it is, otherwise core.logic would be dog slow.
20:53	_KY_	I'm using enclojure, built the hello world project, but when run it says <cannot find main class>. what to do?
20:55	dnolen	if anybody wants to help w/ documenting Mori that would be awesome :)
20:57	gfredericks	in core.logic, if a goal has several clauses that are quite similar, should it be possible to refactor out the similarities without using macros?
20:57	tomoj	dnolen: how do you build it for node.js? was getting main-cli-fn problems trying to just change the target to :nodejs
20:57	gfredericks	nevermind that is a silly and nebulous question.
20:58	rbxbx	dnolen: it seems pretty well documented to me, what did you have in mind?
20:59	tomoj	(setting main-cli-fn to a noop at the bottom of mori.cljs didn't help)
20:59	dnolen	tomoj: npm build run
20:59	dnolen	rbxbx: heh, well documented for fp heads and Clojure users :)
20:59	tomoj	package.json missing?
20:59	tomoj	oh I can steal it
21:00	dnolen	rbxbx: would be nice to get Underscore.js level of documentation.
21:00	amalloy	dnolen: thanks
21:00	dnolen	rbxbx: for JS devs.
21:00	dnolen	tomoj: steal it? it's in the repo
21:01	tomoj	ah, pulled, thanks,
21:01	rbxbx	dnolen: marginalia style?
21:02	rbxbx	dnolen: it might be nice to have a side by side – when you would do x in JS, you could do y if you were using mori... not sure if that belongs in docs though?
21:03	dnolen	rbxbx: side by side would be nice - but just having the usage like Underscore.js would be enough I think.
21:03	dnolen	rbxbx: what I would truly love
21:04	dnolen	rbxbx: fancy intro page a la Handlebar.js + Underscore.js doc page.
21:04	zanes	Does defrecord give me a test function as well?
21:05	rbxbx	dnolen: ooo, indeed. Hadn't seen Handlebar.js's homepage before. Very well done.
21:09	rbxbx	dnolen: I may take a stab at that tomorrow, not sure I have the bandwidth tonight. It would also have the pleasant side-effect of forcing me to understand what everything in Mori does ;)
21:10	gfredericks	either the core.logic != macro is deeply hard for me to understand or else the README has a typo.
21:10	dnolen	rbxbx: that would awesome :)
21:11	dnolen	gfredericks: != is a bit strange - it's a disequality constraint
21:12	gfredericks	dnolen: I read the docstring and still cannot explain the readme
21:12	gfredericks	if it weren't for the readme I would assume I understood !=
21:13	dnolen	gfredericks: it just guarantees that two terms can never unify.
21:13	gfredericks	dnolen: so (!= [x 2] [y 1]) should have no effect, since (not= 2 1), right?
21:13	dnolen	(!= [x 1] [2 y])
21:13	amalloy	anyone remember what {:static true} means on a defn? it looks to me like the current version of the compiler completely ignores it, i just want to make sure that's true
21:13	gfredericks	ah okay; so typo it is
21:15	technomancy	amalloy: yeah, it's ignored now. it was an experiment for an opt-in way to turn off ^:dynamic-by-default, but it never worked quite right
21:15	dnolen	gfredericks: oops, fixed now
21:16	dnolen	gfredericks: I think someone had mentioned that before but it wasn't clear to me it was I typo
21:16	gfredericks	dnolen: looks great, thanks
21:17	technomancy	leiningen 2.0.0-preview4 released
21:18	technomancy	`lein upgrade` should pull it in if you're on preview3
21:37	lynaghk`	technomancy: wooo, thanks.
21:42	brehaut	dnolen: do you need JDK7 to build mori now that its got reducers?
21:42	dnolen	brehaut: haha no :)
21:42	dnolen	brehaut: ain't no fork/join in JS :)
21:43	brehaut	dnolen: hmm. i get "ERROR - required "clojure.core.reducers" namespace never provided
21:43	brehaut	goog.require('clojure.core.reducers');" trying to build
21:43	dnolen	brehaut: yes this has been plaguing everyone all day :)
21:43	dnolen	brehaut: you need to create the checkouts directory
21:43	brehaut	aah :) sorry about that
21:43	dnolen	brehaut: you need to clone ClojureScript repo into there as clojurescript
21:43	dnolen	brehaut: then you can build.
21:44	dnolen	brehaut: it's says that in the instructions, but I guess people are excited and skimming :)
21:44	brehaut	dnolen: i havent reread the instructions since last night
21:44	dnolen	brehaut: oh yeah, sorry - instructions have changed a bit.
21:45	brehaut	so i see, sorry to be an arse then
21:45	brehaut	dnolen: it looks like mori is missing juxt ?
21:45	brehaut	and i guess its pair which amalloy has called knit in useful
21:46	dnolen	brehaut: if you add it and send I pull request I will merge it.
21:46	brehaut	cool :)
21:46	dnolen	send a pull
21:46	brehaut	got to write it and build it first ;)
21:46	brehaut	'write it'
21:51	_KY_	Can I mix java and clojure code in the same project?
21:51	jasonjckn	_KY_: yes
21:52	jasonjckn	_KY_: you can mix any JVM language
21:52	technomancy	well
21:52	technomancy	currently Leiningen only has plugins for Java, Scala, and Groovy
21:52	technomancy	though IIRC there's one for JRuby in development
21:53	_KY_	I'm using intelliJ now
22:00	brehaut	crap. need to learn asciidoc
22:00	brehaut	or soething?
22:00	brehaut	oh, no i just apparently dont understand markdown
22:01	brehaut	dnolen: are you wanting to use vectors for tuple shaped stuff in mori, or JS arrays?
22:08	dnolen	brehaut: ?
22:08	brehaut	dnolen: i might be missremembering, but last night you were talking about tuples using native JS arrays
22:09	dnolen	brehaut: hmm, I'm not following, tuples where?
22:09	brehaut	dnolen: the result of juxt for instance
22:09	brehaut	in clojure(script) they are vectors but used more like tuples
22:10	dnolen	brehaut: I think Mori should cater in general to JS usability
22:11	dnolen	brehaut: in fact where it makes sense to reimplement CLJS functionality for JS usability, it probably makes sense to do so.
22:11	dnolen	brehaut: if we return an array - then CS or JS destructuring works.
22:11	brehaut	dnolen: that was my thought too
22:12	brehaut	and all the cljs functions that take seqs and vectors work sensibly when presented an array?
22:12	dnolen	brehaut: you can see this thinking in Mori - we don't use CLJS inc, dec, mod, etc.
22:12	dnolen	brehaut: yes
22:12	brehaut	right
22:13	brehaut	so you would also implement identity and constantly from scratch too?
22:13	dnolen	brehaut: only if they aren't already single arity.
22:13	dnolen	brehaut: CLJS multiy arity fns are costly.
22:14	dnolen	brehaut: but code generated for single arity CLJS fns is good.
22:15	brehaut	ok cool
22:15	brehaut	dnolen: i'll send a pull request for juxt and knit, but i think we might want to reconsider using arrays instead of vectors
22:16	dnolen	brehaut: what do you mean reconsider?
22:16	brehaut	dnolen: well at the moment ive just used vectors for tuple-y values
22:17	brehaut	dnolen: https://github.com/brehaut/mori/blob/master/src/mori.cljs#L105-107
22:17	brehaut	bbs
22:17	brehaut	got to run an errand
22:23	austinh	I didn't understand why ":refer :all" wasn't doing anything. Turns out that it's because that feature is in Clojure 1.4, which I thought I was using (but didn't know that was a new feature anyway, since I'm new to Clojure), and Noir was silently forcing me to use 1.3.
22:24	austinh	I'm happy I was able to figure it out in less than 20 minutes, since there wasn't much immediate info to go on.
23:00	gfredericks	what are the implications of the "Non-relational." markers in the core.logic docstrings?
23:02	jasonjckn	gfredericks: basically you can't pass fresh variables to non-relational goals
23:03	gfredericks	huh. thanks.
23:03	jasonjckn	gfredericks: does that make sense?
23:03	gfredericks	I think so
23:04	jasonjckn	gfredericks: i always thought of run* in terms of how it searched for successful goals
23:04	gfredericks	will it crash if I do or just silently act unexpectedly?
23:04	jasonjckn	i forget what happens
23:04	gfredericks	:) okay
23:04	jasonjckn	,(run* [q] (== q 3))
23:04	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: run* in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
23:05	jasonjckn	,(clojure.core.logic/run* [q] (== q 3))
23:05	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.core.logic>
23:07	jasonjckn	non-relational goals can be written in pure clojure (project [x] (== true (even? x))
23:08	jasonjckn	if you were to pass fresh variable x, there's no way it could bind x to all the even numbers
23:08	gfredericks	I wasn't prepared to have to think about whether any of my variables were fresh at arbitrary points
23:08	jasonjckn	but if x was already bound to some set, it would run this even? test on the entire set
23:08	gfredericks	but I'm still not certain I need the non-relational goals, or that they could solve my problem
23:09	jasonjckn	gfredericks: Well I know of 2 ways to think about it
23:09	jasonjckn	the first way is purely in terms of relations from math
23:09	gfredericks	that is more ways than I expected
23:09	jasonjckn	and everythings declarative
23:09	jasonjckn	that way is fine, so long as you don't have non-relational goals
23:09	jasonjckn	the second way is in terms of a search algorithm
23:10	jasonjckn	which is what you need to do for non-relational goals
23:10	jasonjckn	the search ordering corresponds to your statement ordering
23:10	jasonjckn	So (run* [q] (== q 3) (project [q] (== true (even? q)))
23:11	jasonjckn	is fine because the first goal gets executed
23:11	jasonjckn	and q is bound to set {3}
23:11	jasonjckn	then the project happens and q is bound to {}
23:11	jasonjckn	but if you reverse the goals it's not valid anymore
23:11	gfredericks	yeah; it just requires more care
23:11	jasonjckn	I made these models up in my head, so use them with caution :)
23:12	jasonjckn	i haven't actually read the implementation of the search
23:13	gfredericks	jasonjckn: that was helpful, thanks.
23:30	Raynes	wtetzner: Dear Sir, thank you for exploding-fish. Evaluation of all of the existing Clojureish URI libraries has lead me to believe that your offering is top notch and for that, I thank you. You are a gentleman and a scholar, and I think we are to be the best of friends.
23:40	echo-area	Hello
23:41	echo-area	I've simplified the program that reproduces stack overflow a little bit. I'm still trying to simplify it further, but it now can be shared with you to reproduce it. http://pastebin.com/AUJsEV0z <-- Please take a look at it. Does anyone have a clue?
23:44	Raynes	Actually, whoa.
23:44	Raynes	https://github.com/Raynes/exploding-fish/blob/master/src/org/bovinegenius/exploding_fish/query_string.clj#L33 Association lists? O_O
23:44	amalloy	echo-area: it's exactly what hiredman told you last night. you're building up a big chain of lazy-seqs stacked on top of each other - each call to keep returns a new lazy seq, which has to force the seq below it before it can get anything
23:45	amalloy	$google clojure stackoverflow dbyrne prime sieve
23:45	lazybot	[recursion - Recursive function causing a stack overflow - Stack ...] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2946764/recursive-function-causing-a-stack-overflow
23:46	echo-area	amalloy: Okay, it maybe my mistake. Currently it happens only at the end of the file, each of the lazy-seq does nothing but trying to get nil. How would I fix it then?
23:47	amalloy	i don't think you read that entire SO answer in under a minute. i suggest you read the article i linked to, understand the problem, and then decide on a solution that's suitable for your use case. i certainly don't know what's right for you
23:48	echo-area	amalloy: If I reduce the input file's lines, there will be no stack overflow. How do you explain this behavior?
23:48	echo-area	Okay, I didn't see that link when I post these messages.
23:48	echo-area	Let me read it
23:52	PeregrinePDX	It sounds like something you're doing is holding onto the head of your lazy-seq and you're realizing the entire seq. Multiple times... So you have multiple copies of the 10,000 line file in memory at once. Although I am a clojure newbie so I might be completely wrong and I didn't look at your code.
23:52	amalloy	PeregrinePDX: no
23:53	amalloy	that leads to a heap overflow, not a stack overflow
23:55	PeregrinePDX	Fair enough. Like I said I'm a newbie.
23:55	echo-area	What's the default max JVM stack size, BTW?
23:55	amalloy	it varies by your JVM implementation. something around 2k is normal, i think
23:55	echo-area	Okay
23:55	amalloy	(2k frames, that is. not sure how many bytes)
23:56	echo-area	Yes, what I meant was too frame size
23:56	echo-area	Sorry for the ambiguity
23:59	_KY_	Finding a clojure IDE is a game of finding out at which point in time you'd give up on an IDE saying its unusable... 2 down, one more to go =(