#clojure – 2012-05-08

2012-05-08

00:01	brehaut	im guessing long-predicate-name?
00:05	felideon	i guess. we could ask a schemer i would think
00:17	tomoj	hyphen motion?
00:20	ibdknox	it's long-predicate-name?
00:20	ibdknox	in everything I've ever seen
00:38	ynniv	echo-area: I'm just getting started with aleph. how bad is memory usage?
00:57	emezeske	ynniv: I think echo-area was talking about how much memory the compiler used when compiling code that used aleph
00:58	ynniv	oh, ok. that doesn't bother me
01:09	ivan	echo-area: aleph takes 21 seconds to load and start an HTTP server here
01:09	ivan	is that unusual for a large amount of Clojure code?
01:09	ivan	I think aleph imports a lot of stuff
01:12	felideon	ibdknox: still here?
01:33	fliebel	$mail
01:40	wei_	how do I change an agent's value in an error handler function defined by "set-error-handler!"?
01:47	muhoo	is there some trick to pass a form to a macro that refuses to accept anything other than a string?
01:47	muhoo	i.e. defpage in noir
01:47	ibdknox	what are you trying to do?
01:48	muhoo	(defpage (str compose an url "/" like this) {...)
01:48	muhoo	it'll work if i do, (def temp-hack (str compose an url)) (defpage temp-hack ...)
01:49	muhoo	maybe i need a ` or something
01:49	muhoo	macros are still somewhat mysterious to me
01:49	ibdknox	the latter is the only way to really do it in noir
01:49	ibdknox	though I'm curious why you're dynamically creating urls?
01:50	muhoo	trying to eliminate the pages of boilerplate :-)
01:50	ibdknox	can you not just do it with route segments?
01:50	muhoo	some of it
01:51	Roxxi	Does anyone know of an example of setting up a resources directory using lein-ring ?
01:51	muhoo	i can combine things like (str stuff "/:id/:action") and then switch on {:keys [id action]}
01:52	muhoo	but that (str stuff) bit is what's making noir unhappy
01:52	Roxxi	I specified the :resources-path key, as well as a route for resources and files... but whenever I try to get index.html at my :resources-path it keeps returning not found
01:52	muhoo	i have like 5 models, all have identical form machinery (crud stuff), so i'm experimenting with ways to eliminate the boilerplate.
01:58	felideon	ibdknox: hey, I sent another pull request that improves the last one you merged. would be great if you could check it out. https://github.com/ibdknox/Korma/pull/61
02:12	muhoo	ibdknox: to give you some idea of where i'm trying to go: https://www.refheap.com/paste/2646
02:13	muhoo	that's like half the code of each view, which is duplicated in each.
02:13	muhoo	so i'm trying to abstract it out somehow
02:15	ibdknox	you could do it with a macro
02:16	ibdknox	or do it as a compojure route set
02:22	muhoo	compojure route set inside of noir?
02:26	muhoo	custom-handler, looks like
02:26	muhoo	custom-handler*, sorry
02:29	Raynes	ibdknox: Did you seeth my comments on those noir pull requests?
02:29	ibdknox	Raynes: I did
02:29	ibdknox	it shouldn't be 307
02:29	ibdknox	it should be 302
02:29	ibdknox	as some bots still only accept http 1.0
02:30	Raynes	ibdknox: Should I accept the request and change the status code?
02:31	ibdknox	sounds reasonable
02:31	ibdknox	Raynes: thank you much for helping out there
02:34	felideon	ibdknox: anyone helping you out with korma?
02:35	felideon	now or in the near-future
02:35	ibdknox	not currently, though I would especially love that one. I'm not in need of SQL anytime in the near future, which means I can't afford to spend tons of time on it
02:36	Raynes	He is in dire need of a table of light, however.
02:36	ibdknox	so someone who has more vested interest will probably do a better job than I currently would
02:36	ibdknox	dude, who would not want a table made out of light
02:36	ibdknox	that sounds awesome
02:36	ibdknox	Raynes: can haz plz?
02:36	Raynes	nowai
02:37	felideon	you mean something like http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx ?
02:37	felideon	<grin>
02:37	hiredman	I thought it was just really light, you know, made at of aluminum or something
02:37	ibdknox	hiredman: lol
02:37	Raynes	I had a dream that hiredman and I had a brief conversation on IRC.
02:37	ibdknox	felideon: my goal is to get microsoft to give me one of those at some point ;)
02:38	ibdknox	felideon: though that website is awful
02:39	amalloy	still time to pledge, now that you know it's a table made of light (or take back your pledge if you were really excited about the aluminum, i guess)
02:40	ibdknox	speaking of awesome: Tim O'Reilly emailed me back :)
02:41	Raynes	ibdknox: What did he say!?
02:41	ibdknox	He invited me to Foo camp to come talk about it :D
02:43	hiredman	amalloy: I thought I was getting a really good price on that al
02:48	fliebel	Whoa, a few Clojury features python has that I was unaware of: http://python3porting.com/improving.html
02:50	fliebel	clojure-py does seem to use Python fractions, but they are a bit broken..
02:52	ivan	hm, what's wrong with them?
03:07	fliebel	ivan: CompilerException: Compiler Exception don't know how to compile <class 'fractions.Fraction'>
03:08	fliebel	https://gist.github.com/650e02b154d2ebde1202
03:09	fliebel	The just don't work at all
03:09	emcken	I wrote a lazy parsing of a big csv file and now I would like to insert the data into a database without opening and closing the db connection for every row - just can't figure out how to do it
03:11	fliebel	emcken: Could you explain why you can't reuse a connection?
03:13	emcken	fliebel: because I don't have enough experience with Clojure heh
03:13	emcken	fliebel: I can loop parse the csv file -> open the db connection -> write row to db
03:14	fliebel	emcken: So the goal is to move the connection up a level? define it as a top level var, or pass it around
03:14	emcken	fliebel: but can't figure out how to do something along the lines: open db -> parse csv file (1 line at the time lazy) -> write it to the database
03:15	fliebel	(let [con (open db)] (map (partial parse con) (line-seq csv)))
03:17	emcken	fliebel: yeah my problem is I can't figure out how to seperate the functions "with-connection" and "insert-record"... I'm pretty new to clojure
03:18	fliebel	emcken: separate?
03:19	fliebel	inside parse you could just do (with-connection con (insert-record blah)). You could bind the connection above that, but then you need to force the lazy seq.
03:20	fliebel	Why do you want a lazy seq, if you just insert everything into the DB anyway?
03:21	fliebel	(with-connection (open db) (doseq [line (line-seq csv)] (insert-record (parse line)))
03:21	emcken	fliebel: I though doing (with-connection con (insert-record blah)) opens and closes the connection to the db everytime "with-connection" is called
03:22	fliebel	emcken: no, it just binds the given connection.
03:22	fliebel	try (macroexpand-1 '(with-connection blah)) in a repl.
03:23	emcken	fliebel: ahh well I guess its working the way it should already... thanks a lot
03:23	fliebel	I bet it gives you something like (binding [connection blah])
03:32	emcken	fliebel: (macroexpand-1 '(sql/with-connection db (sql/insert-record "bbr" (parse-row test)))) gives...
03:32	emcken	fliebel: (clojure.java.jdbc.internal/with-connection* db (clojure.core/fn [] (sql/insert-record "bbr" (parse-row test))))
03:33	fliebel	ok, remove the -1, see where it goes
03:33	emcken	fliebel: (doc with-connection) says: Evaluates body in the context of a new connection to a database then closes the connection.
03:33	fliebel	uh? oh... really? hrm...
03:34	fliebel	Ok, then you'll need to skip the lazyness. From what I can tell, you don't really need it.
03:37	fliebel	emcken: Why are you using a lazy seq?
03:38	emcken	becasue if I don't the size of the csv file will make my machine run out of memory
03:39	amalloy	so it occurred to me this evening that you can't pass functions to macros. this seems like something that is rarely (but not never) useful, and not fundamentally impossible
03:39	amalloy	for example, you might have https://gist.github.com/2633304 and want (locals-map keyword [a b]) to expand to {:a a :b b}. currently that can't really work, because the macro receives the symbol keyword, not the function keyword
03:39	amalloy	but this also seems kinda like a crazy thing to want. does anyone have opinions/feedback on it?
03:43	fliebel	amalloy: Hold on, I'm forming one...
03:43	emcken	fliebel: I've just looked at you example again... I think I misread it before... it suddenly makes sense :)
03:46	fliebel	amalloy: I don;t know enough about fexprs to form the opinion I wanted, so I'll try to form another one.
03:46	amalloy	haha
03:48	kral	namaste
03:49	fliebel	amalloy: (defmacro foo [f] ((resolve f) 2 2))
03:50	amalloy	fliebel: sure, but then you can't pass, for example, (comp name first)
03:50	fliebel	amalloy: No... eval? :-\
03:51	clj_guest002	String is automatically defined to be java.lang.String in my *.clj files. I don't want this to happen. How do I hide java.lang.String ?
03:53	fliebel	amalloy: I would say passing a function to run at macro expansion time is an optimization in any case I can think of.
03:54	amalloy	fliebel: no way, not even in the example i gave
03:55	amalloy	i mean, i guess you could expand to {(keyword 'a) a, (keyword 'b) b}, so maybe you're right
03:55	fliebel	yea
03:56	clj_guest002	argh, help me :-)
03:56	clj_guest002	how do I prevent String from being auto defined to java.lang.String :-)
03:56	fliebel	clj_guest002: Why would you want that?
03:56	amalloy	clj_guest002: adding smiley faces doesn't make it less rude to repeat your plaintive cries after just five minutes of nobody being able to answer you at midnight
03:57	al-maisan	I wrote a small program that uses pmap (http://tinyurl.com/ctvx4l5) and it takes a minute to terminate after doing the actual "work" .. is this be design or am I doing something wrong?
03:57	fliebel	amalloy: When I started with Clojure, I wanted to write a template language at acroexpansion time, so it would be fast.
03:57	amalloy	al-maisan: some of both. it's an undesirable consequence of a design decision
03:58	clj_guest002	I need to defrecord String to be a [s x y], to be something that I can call drawString on
03:58	al-maisan	amalloy: aha, what is that design decision?
03:58	amalloy	when you're done you can call (shutdown-agents) to kill the pool threads
03:58	al-maisan	interesting..
03:59	al-maisan	amalloy: thanks for the hint! Will try that.
03:59	fliebel	clj_guest002: The easiest way is not to do that. You always get java.lang imported, and I don;t thik you can exlude it.
04:00	fliebel	clj_guest002: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9758279/exclude-java-lang-in-clojure-namespace
04:01	clj_guest002	fliebel: alright, looks like I really shouldn't' do this
04:01	clj_guest002	thanks :-)
04:03	amalloy	hah, i was gonna upvote the second answer to that question before i found out it was just meeee
04:06	echo-area	I have a list of files, and I want to read all of them, one by one. I want to reify clojure.lang.ISeq, such that I can read them this way: (doseq [line (reification-of-ISeq-through-the-files)] (do-this line) (do-that line)). But this is not functional: the reified object can't be consumed twice, since as it is used the first time it is changed in place. This seems to contrast with Clojure's philosophy, is there any better design?
04:07	echo-area	What do you suggest?
04:13	fliebel	echo-area: So you want a seq of the lines of every file, so that you can repeatedly iterate them?
04:13	amalloy	i don't see any reason to have this like crazy custom reification, instead of just using for/doseq to iterate over the files, and then the lines within each file
04:14	amalloy	(doseq [f (file-seq ...)] (with-open [r (reader f)] (doseq [line (line-seq r)] ...)))
04:15	Borkdude	ass
04:15	Borkdude	undo
04:16	Borkdude	technomancy: I just updated heroku, but when I type heroku it sprinkles errors on my screen
04:18	Borkdude	technomancy: ah, re-installing the "toolbelt" worked
04:19	echo-area	fliebel: Yes, I want to wrap around a list of files, internally it uses line-seq/file-seq, of course
04:20	fliebel	echo-area: So why not do what amalloy suggested? I don't see the need for the reify either.
04:21	echo-area	amalloy: But the reading is inside a call-back, and it is not a contiguous process
04:21	echo-area	fliebel: That is, I will need to save the current process inside an atom, and resume later
04:23	fliebel	echo-area: What if you put the internal seq in a cycle, so that you can just keep on reding.
04:23	fliebel	&(take 10 (cycle [1 2 3]))
04:23	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1)
04:24	echo-area	I can't, as there can be a long time between two reads
04:24	echo-area	Some else code calls my code to read.
04:26	fliebel	echo-area: I don't know, because I don't really understad your problem
04:27	amalloy	echo-area: you might be interested in http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7134733/tree-search-saving-execution-state as an alternative approach to atoms
04:43	michaelr525	hey
04:45	michaelr525	how to implement unescape for string content?
04:45	michaelr525	it's probably something really simple
04:46	echo-area	amalloy_: That looks like continuation. Let me see..
04:46	echo-area	Thanks
04:51	michaelr525	haha
04:51	michaelr525	(read-string) worked for me
04:59	emcken	Is it possible to abort/break an evaluation in slime-repl (Emacs) without closing it down entirely?
05:01	clgv	emcken: do you know the rbeak macro which gives you a repl in its call context?
05:01	clgv	*break
05:03	emcken	clgv: no sorry :( looking for something which would work similar to Ctrl+c when running scripts from a terminal
05:03	robertstuttaford	how do i get ccw to use my lein project.clj when starting a repl? i'm targetting clj 1.4 in my project.clj but my repl always starts with clj 1.3
05:03	clgv	emcken: oh ok
05:04	clgv	robertstuttaford: not yet, I guess. or did they release the leiningen support plugin yet?
05:05	clgv	robertstuttaford: to get clojure 1.4 you just have to remove 1.3 from buildpath and add the 1.4 jar
05:05	emcken	clgv: I found something I think I can use: C-c C-b
05:12	robertstuttaford	clgv: thank you
05:12	robertstuttaford	after following cemerick's video, i have a lein plugin installed
05:13	clgv	oh ok. so there is a release of that plugin? laurent talked about it some weeks ago
05:13	robertstuttaford	i think it's still in beta
05:17	clgv	but it didnt replace the 1.3 jar by the 1.4 one specified in project.clj?
05:26	Borkdude	hmm how I could save the gamestate per session, without making the model dependent on noir… https://github.com/Borkdude/tictactoe
05:26	Borkdude	it's now hosted here http://webtictactoe.herokuapp.com/
05:27	Borkdude	I could just save the gamestate in the view
05:27	Borkdude	and give it to the model
05:31	DukePatience	Quick question. Why Clojure and not CL?
05:33	vijaykiran	Quick answer. JVM
05:33	DukePatience	Other than easy cross-platformism, what does JVM have that CL doesn't?
05:35	Borkdude	DukePatience: for me the initial reason was: I can't change my environment (JVM/.NET), so how can I use Lisp in this environment
05:44	_KY_	If I call (eval), which namespace will it use, and how can I change it?
05:45	_KY_	(Sorry brb...)
06:10	clgv	DukePatience: an existing library for almost every problem ;)
06:39	_KY_	I want to set the namespace for a jar... I checked that it's set to "clojure.core"
06:39	_KY_	I mean, that's the namespace it uses for "eval"
06:40	_KY_	When I run java -jar, it doesn't allow me to (eval (ands different.namespace)),
06:40	_KY_	Saying "Can't change/establish root binding of: ands with set"
06:41	_KY_	Saying "Can't change/establish root binding of: ns with set"
06:41	_KY_	I want to do (eval (ns different.namespace))
06:42	clgv	&(eval '(let [n ns] (println n)))
06:42	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! eval is bad!
06:42	clgv	ah right
06:42	_KY_	&ands
06:42	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ands in this context
06:42	_KY_	&ns
06:42	lazybot	⇒ #<Namespace sandbox3826>
06:42	_KY_	&(ns clojure.core)
06:42	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.core
06:42	clgv	_KY_: using eval like that shows that the namespace is the current namespace
06:43	_KY_	Well... let's say the namespace I want is genifer.core
06:43	clgv	but you can use (in-ns 'bla) to switch to a namespace
06:43	_KY_	When java -jar starts, it's set to "clojure.core"
06:43	_KY_	Oh I see...
06:43	_KY_	That's cool
06:44	clgv	but you may have to require it upfront
06:45	muhoo	sleep is a theoretical construct
06:46	Borkdude	I was wondering, will session information always remain in memory until the app is restarted? https://github.com/ibdknox/noir/blob/master/src/noir/session.clj
06:47	_KY_	Where should I put (in-ns ...)?
06:48	clgv	_KY_: within the eval
06:48	_KY_	Doesn't seem to have an effect
06:48	_KY_	Like (eval (in-ns ...) something)?
06:48	clgv	Borkdude: I think noir uses ring for it - you can check there whether the session has a timeout
06:49	clgv	_KY_: (eval '(do (in-ns 'my.ns) (do-sth ...)))
06:49	_KY_	I see...
06:49	clgv	the second quote is likely not needed ^^
06:49	_KY_	The quote before "do" is needed?
06:49	_KY_	Ahh I see...
06:49	_KY_	Yes it's needed
06:49	clgv	yes. otherwise it's executed there.
06:50	clgv	,(doc eval)
06:50	clojurebot	"([form]); Evaluates the form data structure (not text!) and returns the result."
06:52	_KY_	That doesn't work...
06:52	_KY_	Perhaps, in-ands wraps the eval?
06:52	_KY_	Perhaps, in-ns wraps the eval?
06:54	_KY_	Nah... that doesn't work either =(
06:54	clgv	_KY_: paste an example with description
06:55	_KY_	I have a function, say (help), that I want to invoke within the namespace genifer.core
06:55	_KY_	But the user inputs it via (read)
06:56	_KY_	So I have to (eval (read))
06:56	_KY_	But the namespace isn't right
06:56	_KY_	I found out the namespace is clojure.core
06:56	clgv	_KY_: ah. try (binding [ns 'genifer.core] (eval (read)))
06:57	clgv	or better (let [input (read)] (binding [ns 'genifer.core] (eval input))
06:58	_KY_	That doesn't change the ns
06:58	clgv	it should
06:58	_KY_	In fact, I tried to change the ns within the input to (read)
06:59	_KY_	Came out with error: "Can't change/establish root binding of: ns with set"
06:59	_KY_	Maybe it's fixed in some way
06:59	_KY_	&(eval (read))
06:59	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! eval is bad!
07:00	_KY_	&(eval ands)
07:00	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! eval is bad!
07:00	_KY_	&(eval ns)
07:00	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! eval is bad!
07:00	clgv	that prints the namespace 'bla provided that it exists: (binding [ns (the-ns 'bla)] (eval '(let [n ns] (println n))))
07:01	_KY_	I see...
07:01	_KY_	Perhaps it's the jar
07:01	_KY_	Yeah... it's because of the jar
07:01	clgv	_KY_: you can have a look at clojail - it always executes code in different namespaces ;)
07:17	xumingmingv	i am trying composure 0.6.4
07:17	xumingmingv	when i use request in defroutes
07:17	xumingmingv	it tells me that request can not be resolved, why?
07:18	xumingmingv	request is dynamically bounded magic variable in composure, right?
07:19	antares_	xumingmingv: it's not magic but it is only available when you are handling a request. By the time routes are defined, there is no request to use.
07:20	antares_	xumingmingv: plus, please paste your code if you want help on any specifics
07:21	xumingmingv	ok
07:21	xumingmingv	https://gist.github.com/2634328
07:21	xumingmingv	code is here
07:26	xumingmingv	antares_, any suggestions?
07:26	xumingmingv	I have seen this kind of usage: http://zef.me/2650/on-language-design-magic-variables-in-compojure
07:35	antares_	xumingmingv: that blog post is from 2 years ago
07:38	xumingmingv	oh...
07:39	antares_	compojure tests do not seem to use request anywhere, only specific parts of it
07:44	xumingmingv	i get my answer here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/clojure-web-dev/mEGlCmESxxY
07:50	jweiss	is there a way to stop pr from printing namespaces? I see pprint offers that, but I want to print as a single line.
08:09	hyPiRion	jweiss: Are you only pr-ing vars?
08:09	hyPiRion	if so, you could potentially do an ugly hack
08:09	hyPiRion	,(print (second (re-find #"(?:\/)([^/]+)" (str #'concat))))
08:09	jweiss	hyPiRion: in this case, i'm pr-ing quoted code
08:10	clojurebot	concat
08:10	hyPiRion	Ah.
08:10	jweiss	i'm guessing the fix is some multimethod for print-method for symbols?
08:11	jweiss	the only problem is i think changing that would be system-wide, which i don't want.
08:12	hyPiRion	Is it possible to dynamically bind the multimethod? I would guess no, but that could've been a solution.
08:26	echo-area	amalloy_: Finally I decide to use atom. That call-back function is from Java, which requires states, and I can't find anywhere to store state information unless using reference types
08:26	echo-area	s/That call-back function is from Java/That functions is called back from Java/
08:30	_KY_	I still can't change the namespace of (eval) in a jar, but I can do that in repl...
08:41	_KY_	I tried 3 methods, they all work in REPL, but no longer in the jar
08:42	_KY_	The methods are: binding, push-thread-bindings, and alter-var-root
08:42	jonaskoelker	Is the meaning of #_ something like "the reader consumes and ignores the next s-expr"?
08:42	gfredericks	jonaskoelker: yep
08:43	jonaskoelker	yay, I ar smart, I can interpolaetz
08:43	clgv	_KY_: build a minimal example with the binding method. best if I only have to "git clone" it
08:54	_KY_	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2652
08:55	_KY_	^^ the flower is just a test function...
08:55	_KY_	Try type (help) when prompted for input...
08:55	_KY_	It works in REPL, but not when made into a jar
08:57	_KY_	(In the 2 other methods please delete "pushback-stream" as well)
09:01	clgv	_KY_: there is no help function. how should calling 'help do anything?
09:01	_KY_	Oh I mean (flower)
09:06	clgv	_KY_: erm, what is your exact error?
09:06	clgv	I should have asked that earlier ^^
09:07	_KY_	When run as a jar... it fails to resolve symbol "flower"
09:07	_KY_	But it works when in REPL
09:07	_KY_	When run as a jar the namespace is "clojure.core"
09:08	_KY_	And it resists being changed
09:08	fliebel	What I did is walking the read datastructure, and resolving the symbols myself before I eval them.
09:09	clgv	_KY_: I can't reproduce your error.
09:11	_KY_	You compiled it into a jar?
09:11	clgv	yes. now it works^^
09:12	_KY_	That's strange... let me check...
09:12	_KY_	I was using lein
09:12	_KY_	How do you compile a single clj file?
09:13	clgv	_KY_ check here: https://www.refheap.com/paste/2653
09:16	_KY_	Still doesn't work here... =(
09:18	clgv	_KY_: I can upload you the whole project. where shall I?
09:18	_KY_	Maybe I'll just start one
09:18	_KY_	Using lein new?
09:19	clgv	you know any uploader and I put it there for you^^
09:20	clgv	_KY_: http://www.sendspace.com/file/rg1udl
09:21	_KY_	Ok I get it...
09:23	_KY_	Ok I can run yours, and it works...
09:23	_KY_	Even as a jar
09:24	_KY_	But in my project with the exact same code, it doesn't work...
09:24	clgv	_KY_: then you are probably doing something strange in there
09:25	clgv	_KY_: you know that you can also start are real repl in your -main method via clojure.main/repl?
09:25	_KY_	Can you try (print ands) in your program?
09:25	_KY_	Can you try (print ns) in your program?
09:26	clgv	you have the program ;)
09:26	_KY_	I tried that, it prints nothing...
09:27	_KY_	Oh I see... I have to use println
09:28	_KY_	In your program, I'm allowed to change the namespace... but not in my jar
09:29	clgv	_KY_: so you can rule out the 'binding form as the reason for that behavior ;)
09:32	_KY_	Could it be you're doing this in the -main function?
09:39	_KY_	I moved your code to my -main and now it works also...
09:40	clgv	well you have to bind the correct ns there that contains the function you are calling
09:41	clgv	_KY_: do you want to have a real repl in your jar?
09:41	jwr7	Ahh, thanks to reduce-kv and some hinting my sparse-vector-normalizing code is now 30% faster. Nice!
09:42	_KY_	clgv: not exactly a REPL, but a more enhanced one... =)
09:42	clgv	_KY_: well, then I would start with clojure.main/repl and its parameters
09:46	_KY_	But I want to intercept the REPL
09:46	clgv	_KY_: have a look at its parameters and how they are used^^
09:50	_KY_	I see... it seems better than what I'm doing...
09:50	clgv	,(doc clojure.main/repl)
09:50	clojurebot	excusez-moi
09:50	clgv	&(doc clojure.main/repl)
09:50	lazybot	⇒ "([& options]); Generic, reusable, read-eval-print loop. By default, reads from in, writes to out, and prints exception summaries to err. If you use the default :read hook, in must either be an instance of LineNumberingPushbackReader or duplicate its beh... https://www.refheap.com/paste/2654
09:52	jwr7	Are all unhinted function arguments boxed?
09:53	clgv	jwr7: only numbers. everything else is already an object
09:54	jwr7	clgv: well, yes, I meant numbers. I just wanted to know if clojure 1.4 does any auto-unboxing.
09:55	jwr7	Also, can map keys be unboxed, or are they always objects?
09:56	clgv	well, you would have to look that up in the source. but afaik there is no special map for that
09:59	_KY_	What is meant by boxed?
10:02	clgv	_KY_: primitive int -> Integer object
10:07	pandeiro	is there a function like filter/remove but that only filters/removes the first match and returns the rest of the seq untouched?
10:19	rhc	if anyone is interested, a wrote a clojure program ants.clj for a little clojure presentation: http://github.com/matthavener/banksim
10:19	rhc	a wrote -> i wrote
10:22	dnolen	CLJS apply now much faster in master.
10:24	drewr	dnolen: how do you hack on compiler.clj? there's no project.clj
10:24	drewr	just with a bare repl?
10:24	dnolen	drewr: I just work from the repo, making changing, making sure all tests pass.
10:25	dnolen	drewr: for performance work I make a lein + lein-cljsbuild + checkouts project
10:25	drewr	yeah cljsbuild makes nice workflow out of cljs code
10:25	drewr	I wanted to fix that js-reserved compiler bug though
10:25	dnolen	drewr: cljsbuild does wonders.
10:26	dnolen	drewr: code generation stuff like that I just test with my eyes :)
10:26	dnolen	drewr: turn off optimizations in script/test
10:26	dnolen	drewr: look at the output of out/core-advanced-test.js
10:28	dnolen	drewr: for some simple stuff, also testing by loading the cljs.compiler at the repl also work. (c/emit (c/analyze {} '(some-form ...)))
10:47	clgv	rhc: you forgot to add :main to project.clj so (start) cant be resolved ;)
10:51	rhc	clgv: ahh, thank you, thanks for checking it out too
10:53	_KY_	Trying to call clojure.main/repl in a jar gives run-time error:
10:53	_KY_	"Attempting to call unbound fn: #'clojure.main/repl"
10:54	clgv	_KY_: you have to use or require the namespace as usual
10:56	_KY_	Works now... thanks =)
11:19	tuxella	Hello
11:19	wkmanire	Good morning.
11:20	tuxella	I have a question about java interop, could someone help me?
11:20	clgv	~anyone
11:20	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
11:20	tuxella	ok
11:21	tuxella	I'd need to call a method of a java object with the method name. But I only know this method name at runtime
11:21	clgv	tuxella: then you have to use reflection
11:22	tuxella	As far as i have understood, the dot notation being a special form, this is not possible this way, and I haven't found any other way to call a method of a java object ..
11:22	robertstuttaford	is it possible to assoc a value into a map with a symbol as the key, but somehow use a string to create that symbol first?
11:22	nDuff	...well, there is evil^Weval :)
11:22	S11001001	tuxella: check clojure.lang java namespace for convenient utilities for calling reflectively while maintaining sanity (conflating integer types and such)
11:23	robertstuttaford	i guess the assoc part is easy. how do i make a symbol from a string?
11:23	S11001001	~(doc symbol)
11:23	clojurebot	defmulti doc is ugly
11:23	S11001001	oh come on
11:23	S11001001	,(doc symbol)
11:23	clojurebot	"([name] [ns name]); Returns a Symbol with the given namespace and name."
11:23	clgv	tuxella: there is 'clojure.reflect
11:24	@rhickey	http://clojure.com/blog/2012/05/08/reducers-a-library-and-model-for-collection-processing.html
11:24	tuxella	clgv: and i guess from this I can get my method by its name and call it afterward ?
11:24	clgv	tuxella: yes. but ask yourself, if you really need to do it like that
11:25	tuxella	clgv: it looks (looked ?) like an easy way to expose methods of the tree I am walking in the configuration of the walker
11:30	wkmanire	,(doc partition)
11:30	clojurebot	"([n coll] [n step coll] [n step pad coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of lists of n items each, at offsets step apart. If step is not supplied, defaults to n, i.e. the partitions do not overlap. If a pad collection is supplied, use its elements as necessary to complete last partition upto n items. In case there are not enough padding elements, return a partition with less than n items."
11:30	tuxella	clgv: thank you for your help, I will try this way even if I agree that it may not be the best way
11:31	jedmtnman	is there a specific channel for for the midje library?
11:33	TimMc	jedmtnman: There appear to be a few people in #midje, but I don't know if the core maintainers show up there.
11:33	robertstuttaford	clojure rocks. just sayin'
11:33	robertstuttaford	i'm about 10 days in, only really starting to write code now, and i'm loving it
11:33	jedmtnman	TimMc: logged on there and there was no welcome message, so wasnt sure if it was the right context :)
11:34	TimMc	robertstuttaford: \o/
11:34	robertstuttaford	i love what it's doing to my brain. nice challenge
11:36	@rhickey	any questions on reducers?
11:37	TimMc	rhickey: I'm a little lost on reduers/map. It tells the reducible thing to layer in a map operation?
11:38	clgv	rhickey: only bookmarked it for later reading this evening ;)
11:38	Borkdude	rhickey: will read it later, tnx
11:38	TimMc	My language parser fails somewhere around "return something reducible via transformation of the reducing function, reducers."
11:39	@rhickey	TimMc: map takes something reducible (e.g. a collection)
11:39	robertstuttaford	rhickey: no. but let me take this opportunity to thank you for your awesome language and talks that you've given!
11:39	@rhickey	and returns something reducible (by implementing the coll-reduce protocol)
11:40	@rhickey	so return value of map etends coll-reduce
11:40	@rhickey	when you call reduce on it , it modifies the function you give it (adding the mapping logic) and then passes that to the coll
11:40	TimMc	So you're building a pipeline of operations that will occur once an actual reduce operation is called?
11:40	@rhickey	TimMc: right
11:41	@rhickey	essentially a new function, like a russian doll
11:41	@rhickey	not really like a pipe of connections and flowing streams
11:41	fliebel	rhickey: This is basically an optimization to get rid of the intermediate objects, right?
11:41	@rhickey	one key point is that there are no streams/seqs
11:42	@rhickey	fliebel: getting rid of intermediate objects would be a) keeping the seq model, and then b) getting rid of its overheads
11:42	@rhickey	this instead gets rid of the seq model
11:42	@rhickey	the new model doesn't have intermediate objects
11:42	kzar	I've build my javascript file using lein-cljsbuild OK but when I try to use it the thing is trying to include /deps.js . No idea where that's come from but it doesn't exist and I can't figure out what to do. Any ideas?
11:43	@rhickey	but it additionally has the property that the fundamental functions are not defined in terms of seqs
11:43	@rhickey	and thus can be parallelized
11:44	@rhickey	it's not stream fusion, there are no streams in the semantics anymore
11:44	fliebel	rhickey: When would I use it?
11:45	TimMc	I'm curious what happens when you use this with the naive Sieve of Eratosthenes.
11:45	@rhickey	fliebel: when you are going to process the entire collection (i.e. don't need laziness) and you'd like to take advantage of your hardware to do that as fast as possible
11:46	TimMc	(which usually causes Stack Overflow due to nested filters)
11:46	@rhickey	lazy/parallel is the fundamental tradeoff
11:46	tuxella	rhickey: I understand it as something similar to coroutines, at least their python implementation, is that what you intend with this reducers ?
11:47	@rhickey	It also forces you into a less item-at-a-time model
11:47	hyPiRion	rhickey: Just a question after reading the source code: Any specific reason why 512 is the initial partition group for fold?
11:47	@rhickey	tuxella: not really
11:47	ieure	Soooooo. There's no code coverage tool for Clojure?
11:48	@rhickey	hyPiRion: has to be something, that's somewhat empirical will not much data :)
11:48	hyPiRion	Ahh, I see :)
11:48	HCumberdale	Hello from Gibraltar :)
11:48	TimMc	ieure: I've heard of a coverage tool that was described as relatively naive... can't recall the name right now.
11:49	ieure	TimMc, Radagast?
11:49	ieure	It's the only one I've found. Insufficient.
11:52	fliebel	rhickey: What happened to the pv* forkjoin map/reduce/filter etc? Is this it?
11:52	@rhickey	fliebel: this replaces that
11:52	@rhickey	much better
11:53	fliebel	cool :)
11:53	@rhickey	i.e. you won't need pmapthis, pmapthat
11:53	@rhickey	map/filter etc are independent of parallelism
11:54	HCumberdale	So pvmap becomes the new map ?
11:54	@rhickey	HCumberdale: no, map has nothing to do with p, nor v
11:54	@rhickey	in this model
11:55	TimMc	"a combining function, a reducing function, and a collection" <- the combining function is something associative like +, but what is the reducing function?
11:55	HCumberdale	Sorry I meant pvmap becomes the new pmap?
11:55	@rhickey	HCumberdale: pmap will always have a place as a hybrid lazy+parallel options
11:56	mmarczyk	rhickey: so a reducible IO source would close the resource once done -- in particular, if (reduced ...) was used to stop the reduction, perhaps in an outer layer of the transformation?
11:56	@rhickey	TimMc: it can be any reducing fn, could reduce to scalar like +, or build collection subresults
11:56	@rhickey	mmarczyk: yes
11:57	HCumberdale	Is pvmap getting part of clojure 1.4 or are there no plans to merge it from clojure par branch?
11:57	dnolen	HCumberdale: sounds like stuff is now superseded by the new reducers work.
11:57	@rhickey	HCumberdale: pvmap is not needed given reducers/fold
11:58	dnolen	like that stuff
11:58	fliebel	It seems the reducers/map takes one one coll, or is that part of the defcurried magic?
11:58	HCumberdale	Ahhh found a post about it from today
11:59	drewr	dnolen: how do I tell script/test where goog lives?
11:59	@rhickey	fliebel: it does take only one, my todo list mentioned a multi-reducer
11:59	dnolen	drewr: compile w/ :whitespace or :simple optimizations
11:59	drewr	I get "out/core-advanced-test.js:1: ReferenceError: goog is not defined"
11:59	fliebel	ah, great
11:59	drewr	dnolen: ah
11:59	mmarczyk	rhickey: a ClojureScript-related question -- is fold relevant at all? just making sure before I dive into porting the namespace (not much porting work at all in this case, though... :-))
12:00	mmarczyk	dnolen: I'm loving your apply patches, great stuff :-)
12:00	@rhickey	mmarczyk: it can never be parallel, but just implement using the Object fallback - turns into reduce
12:00	@rhickey	mmarczyk: gives code compatibility
12:00	mmarczyk	rhickey: sure, will do
12:00	dnolen	mmarczyk: yes, huge speedups for apply.
12:00	@rhickey	unti lwe can figure out how to get webworkers to help
12:00	@rhickey	:)
12:00	mmarczyk	hah! :-)
12:01	brainproxy	or node child_processes
12:01	brainproxy	:)
12:04	jlongster	dnolen: looks like we'll be able to create native browser-based debuggers after all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQxQr1H0iZ0
12:05	dnolen	jlongster: !
12:06	jlongster	I guess I won't create a web VM :)
12:09	mmarczyk	rhickey: can this be used to fuse layers of lazy seq transformations? I'm thinking e.g. if I have a bunch of transformations and I layer them appropriately, so they get "fused", can I just wrap it in a function returning (reduced (lazy-seq (cons x (somehow-get-"rest"-reducible)))) to get a lazy seq? or sth similar
12:11	@rhickey	mmarczyk: this is not stream fusion, nor about it, but there are benefits to using these reducers instead of seq versions even on lazy source if you are going to end up reducing
12:12	@rhickey	also note the composability bit
12:13	fliebel	rhickey: Still trying to understand the code. Is just reduce parallel, or map and filter too(without reducing)?
12:13	@rhickey	the only thing that is parallel is fold
12:14	@rhickey	that is enabled by the rest of the library being reduce-based
12:14	@rhickey	map, and filter don't do any work on collection when called
12:16	fliebel	Right, so if I want to have a better pmap(i.e. pvmap), this is not it. This map and filter just compose untill you call reduce on them, if I understand it correctly.
12:16	HCumberdale	is a "for" List Comprehension faster then a "map" ?
12:16	technomancy	HCumberdale: they compile to the same thing
12:16	HCumberdale	thx technomancy
12:19	HCumberdale	rhickey: do you use emacs ?
12:22	kzar	What makes the /repl route work for browser repls? Looking at examples I don't see it in the defroutes with everything else
12:25	technomancy	ieure: radagast is pretty rudimentary, but there's another one that's quite new; check out guzheng
12:25	technomancy	kzar: in my drawbridge article?
12:25	dnolen	CLJS breaking change for how browser REPL works but folks can finally stay abreast of latest GClosure instead of being a year behind - http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-35
12:26	kzar	technomancy: Well for example https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/blob/0.1.8/example-projects/advanced/src-cljs/example/repl.cljs
12:26	dnolen	thoughts welcome, basically for the simple case you now have to open your CJLS file at localhost:9000/file.html instead of directly via file://
12:26	ieure	technomancy, Thanks, I'll take a look.
12:26	technomancy	kzar: oh, ok; never mind.
12:26	mmarczyk	dnolen: that actually seems more convenient :-)
12:26	dnolen	mmarczyk: yeah :) I don't really see many problems with it.
12:27	dnolen	but worth getting some feedback
12:32	ibdknox	dnolen: would you consider a patch that remove the atom specific nature of swap! and reset! and made a IReset or some such protocol?
12:32	ibdknox	dnolen: for CLJS
12:32	bhenry	ping korma users and/or ibdknox… what if i need to check more than one constraint on the same key. i.e. "WHERE user.id IN list1-derived-from-locations AND user.id IN list2-derived-from-permission-groups"
12:33	kzar	Weird, I noticed the script tags for the example are inside the body. When I changed my code to do that it started working, surely script tags normally live up in the head though?
12:33	ibdknox	bhenry: instead of using a map use the functions directly
12:33	fliebel	ibdknox: I once submitted a patch for exactly that to Clojure.
12:33	bhenry	ibdknox will two where's work?
12:34	ibdknox	bhenry: actually, that probably would
12:34	fliebel	ibdknox: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-803
12:34	bhenry	ibdknox: good because i don't know how to do an (in) call the other way
12:34	ibdknox	bhenry: I was thinking (where (and (in :x [2 3]) (in :x [4 5]))
12:35	bhenry	aha
12:35	ibdknox	fliebel: huh
12:35	ibdknox	fliebel: so there were no objections then
12:35	dnolen	ibdknox: hmm probably should think about that. atom is the goto for state management, protocols add some overhead.
12:36	fliebel	ibdknox: Not really, but noone really cared either, it seems. What did you think of in cljs that needs this?
12:37	ibdknox	dnolen: fliebel: in order to do any realistic form of databinding I needed to create subatoms
12:37	hiredman	ibdknox: I objected on clj-803
12:37	ibdknox	hiredman: whoops, should've read that one
12:38	fliebel	oh, true
12:38	mmarczyk	dnolen: as far as convenience is concerned, me CLJS-35 is a clear win for me, given the option to pass in :serve-static false
12:40	ibdknox	dnolen: fliebel: basically the problem is that in clojure we usually use a single atom to represent a collection of things. This makes it virtually impossible for you to delegate the updating of those to happen at a more granular level - all changes have to be made to the root atom. My little subatom basically keeps a reference to the path within the atom, notifies of changes specific to that path and allows you to update the root atom
12:40	ibdknox	transparently
12:40	ibdknox	dnolen: fliebel: subatom certainly does not belong in core, but it is technically the atom and it seems dumb that I can't use the built-in swap! and reset! with it
12:42	dnolen	ibdknox: sounds like something that needs to get written up and pondered :)
12:42	fliebel	dnolen: ibdknox: IIRC, Avout uses swap!! and reset!!, they could also benefit, I would think.
12:43	dnolen	ibdknox: if atoms don't work for you - what you're asking for as the ability to use the same interface on a custom type right?
12:44	ibdknox	dnolen: more or less
12:44	dnolen	ibdknox: it could probably be zippy w/ IAtom marker protocol + ICompareAndSwap protocol
12:45	fliebel	hiredman: What do you think about avout, in respect to your comment on 803?
12:46	lynaghk	ibdknox: have you seen Dave Sann's port of Knockout.js to CLJS? He's doing something similar with paths-within-atoms
12:47	ibdknox	lynaghk: I haven't
12:47	ibdknox	lynaghk: with this subatom stuff my databinding implementation is wonderfully simple now
12:47	lynaghk	ibdknox: https://github.com/davesann/closeout
12:48	fliebel	ibdknox: databinding?
12:48	lynaghk	ibdknox: yeah? I'll check it out when it hits crate. I did a few hours of hammock time on Sunday thinking about this stuff, have some ideas I'll be implementing over the next week or so
12:50	hiredman	fliebel: avout doesn't pretend to be local, it has it's own transactions and references
12:50	lynaghk	you might want to checkout the Knockout.js documentation, it's very good. I'll probably do a hybrid of your approach (joining atoms with individual DOM element properties) and the DOM-walking that's in c2 now.
12:50	hiredman	(or at least it did last time I checked)
12:51	ibdknox	fliebel: lynaghk: https://github.com/ibdknox/crate/blob/fd3508e121516d122638e67176c6b8ecce72c8b9/src/crate/binding.cljs
12:51	fliebel	hiredman: CouchDB doesn;t pretend to be local either, I think it would just be convenient to use the same interface. an avout atom uses swap!!, but does the same thing.
12:52	hiredman	fliebel: right, but swap!! is not clojure.core/swap!
12:52	lynaghk	ibdknox: do you have an example of calling code?
12:52	hiredman	so when swap!! is used you know it is different from clojure.core/swap!
12:52	hiredman	if he wants a couchdb atom, use swap!!
12:53	hiredman	(in fact, doesn't avout support exactly that?)
12:53	hiredman	oh, avout has a mongo plugin, not couch
12:53	ibdknox	lynaghk: https://www.refheap.com/paste/2658
12:54	fliebel	hiredman: he is me. I agree a distinction between distinct things is good, but they do use the same compare-and-set concept.
12:54	ibdknox	hiredman: in my case it's not any different it does exactly what swap! does, it just does it on a subpart of the atom automatically as opposed to needing to do update-in ...
12:56	hiredman	ibdknox: I think there are other arguments that could be made there: A looks like an Atom, and you can swap! it like an atom, but swap! does something different? is that good?
12:57	lynaghk	ibdknox: why a new type instead of just wrapping the update-in swap call (similar to how you implemented Waltz)
12:57	ibdknox	lynaghk: because I need the events, the derefs, etc to be local to the path as well
12:58	nDuff	If I want to generate a Java servlet from a Noir application, should I be using ring.util.servlet directly?
13:00	lynaghk	ibdknox; ah, I see. Are you integrating this into any public projects once you have it tidied up, or is it for Light Table?
13:01	ibdknox	hiredman: It's a fair argument. In this case, it behaves exactly as if that bit of data were its own atom and retains exactly the semantics of other atoms. While technically different, it's mostly a transparent convenience - it really is still the underlying atom.
13:02	ibdknox	lynaghk: I'm sure it'll end up in things :) Databinding is wonderful and now that it can be used with idiomatic atom usage, I'll reach for it a lot. Right now, though, it was mostly for light table
13:04	lynaghk	ibdknox: cool. I look forward to seeing what you do with it.
13:07	technomancy	ibdknox: ISTR reading an essay from Rich in early days where he says he explicitly rejected Erlang's transparently-distributed approach for built-in stuff
13:08	technomancy	8 fallacies of network computing and all that
13:08	ibdknox	technomancy: I'm not talking about distributed at all
13:08	ibdknox	technomancy: it's just a reference to a subpart of an atom
13:09	technomancy	oh, ok; getting my threads crossed here I guess
13:09	fliebel	technomancy: I'm the one talking about distributed stuff.
13:09	technomancy	http://bc.tech.coop/blog/081201.html <- grep for "transparent distribution isn't transparent"
13:13	TimMc	technomancy: Oh god, the title of that article -- I hope not!
13:15	technomancy	TimMc: yeah, taken a certain way it's kinda loper-os-ish
13:24	TimMc	?
13:27	hiredman	technomancy: the full thing is on clojure.org somewhere
13:30	hiredman	ah it's in http://clojure.org/state
13:37	technomancy	cool
13:39	y3di	"Your 'thin sliver' idea is intriguing. Maybe we can call slivers "simple components" and build bigger things out of them. I wonder if there would be any benefit to that?" -- haha
13:55	antoineB	hello, i am looking for a function that do: (fun (fn [a b] (+ a b)) [1 2 3]) => [3 5]
13:55	dan_b	given a project created with "lein2 new foo", what (if anything) in its src/ directory should I expect to have been loaded when I run clojure-jack-in
13:55	antoineB	it don't work with apply
13:56	dan_b	because right now, nothing whatsoever and I can't tell if it's my error or if my expectations are wrong
13:57	duck1123	dan_b: lein swank (what jack-in uses) doesn't require any namespaces, you'll have to require your namespace first
13:58	tmciver_	antoineB: I think you should take a look at 'reductions'
13:58	tmciver_	hmm, perhaps no. something involving partition-all . . .
14:01	Borkdude	antoineB: reductions
14:01	Borkdude	,(reductions + [1 2 3])
14:01	clojurebot	(1 3 6)
14:01	Borkdude	ow wait ;-)
14:02	antoineB	from [1 2 3] i want [3 5]
14:03	antoineB	so do 1 + 2 and 2 + 3
14:03	tmciver_	,(map (fn [ [a b] ] (+ a b)) (partition 2 1 [1 2 3 4 5))
14:03	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
14:03	hiredman	always use partition-all
14:03	tmciver_	,(map (fn [ [a b] ] (+ a b)) (partition 2 1 [1 2 3 4 5)))
14:03	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
14:03	tmciver_	agh
14:03	tmciver_	,(map (fn [ [a b] ] (+ a b)) (partition 2 1 [1 2 3 4 5]))
14:03	clojurebot	(3 5 7 9)
14:04	tmciver_	I suspect there's a slightly less verbose way to do that.
14:05	hiredman	always use partition-all
14:05	antoineB	i am not used to extra syntax form of clojure
14:07	antoineB	hiredman: in this case (if i understand partition-all well) we din't need partition-all because we use a length of 2 and a pace of 1
14:07	TimMc	&(let [x [1 2 3 4]] (map + x (drop 1 x)))
14:07	lazybot	⇒ (3 5 7)
14:09	antoineB	tmciver_: TimMc: thank you, i will use the tmciver solution, because i don't understand TimMc's
14:12	TimMc	...
14:13	antoineB	ok i get it
14:14	Borkdude	(doc macrolet)
14:14	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
14:14	Borkdude	,(doc macrolet)
14:14	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
14:14	Borkdude	,(resolve 'macrolet)
14:14	Borkdude	,(+ 1 2 3)
14:15	Licenser	great you broke it!
14:15	Licenser	,(+ 1 1)
14:15	Licenser	totally did
14:15	Scriptor	&(+ 1 1)
14:15	lazybot	⇒ 2
14:15	clojurebot	nil
14:15	clojurebot	6
14:15	clojurebot	2
14:15	Scriptor	hah
14:15	Licenser	slooow
14:15	Scriptor	,(+ 1 1)
14:15	clojurebot	2
14:15	Borkdude	,(resolve 'macrolet)
14:15	clojurebot	nil
14:15	Borkdude	ah
14:15	Scriptor	there we go
14:16	Borkdude	,(defmacro foo [] nil)
14:16	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
14:16	Borkdude	ah
14:17	Borkdude	I used to program in common lisp and I remember having written this kind of macro: http://cljbin.com/paste/4fa962ffe4b0871973ed1888
14:19	Borkdude	so (with-window w 2 [1 2 3] (apply + w)) would return [3 5] ;-)
14:20	HCumberdale	what is your clojure setup?
14:20	Chousuke	I suspect LOOP in common lisp can do that for you :p
14:20	HCumberdale	Anyone tried JLine ?
14:20	Borkdude	chousuke I used loop inside the macro probably
14:21	technomancy	HCumberdale: jline1 is awful; jline2 is pretty good
14:21	HCumberdale	technomancy: your emacs starter kit does not use it, right?
14:21	HCumberdale	it is emacs & slime ?!
14:22	technomancy	jline doesn't have anything to do with emacs, no
14:23	hyPiRion	Just excuse me for a moment
14:23	hyPiRion	,(remove #{2 5} (into #{} [(denominator 1/2)]))
14:23	clojurebot	()
14:23	dnolen	mmarczyk: at some point we might want to back out the prototype protocol tag trick for inline protocol defs.
14:24	Borkdude	chousuke, found it: https://gist.github.com/2638228
14:25	HCumberdale	technomancy: here is a setup with emacs (modded for macosx as aquamacs) http://paulbarry.com/articles/2008/07/02/getting-started-with-clojure-and-aquamacs
14:25	zakwilson	My initial look at reducers seems to suggest reducers/map isn't as parallel as the likes of useful/pcollect
14:25	dnolen	mmarczyk: my benchmarks from yesterday seem to show that it will trigger deoptimization in V8.
14:25	technomancy	clojurebot: blogs?
14:25	clojurebot	make a note of http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2006/11/the_c_is_efficient_language_fa.php it is yet another article about picking c or c++ for performance being naive
14:25	technomancy	crap
14:26	technomancy	clojurebot: blogs \|are\| never to be trusted
14:26	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
14:26	technomancy	HCumberdale: ^^
14:26	technomancy	that blog post is painfully outdated =\
14:26	hyPiRion	crap.
14:26	HCumberdale	oh...
14:27	zakwilson	Of course, I tried reducers on 1.4, which may not be a good idea.
14:29	nDuff	Hmm.
14:29	hyPiRion	Anyone encountered this bug before? http://i.imgur.com/bXeF5.png
14:29	HCumberdale	The vimclojure repl drives my crazy
14:30	hyPiRion	When checking for equality on (denominator 1/2) and 2, it returns true.
14:32	fliebel	hyPiRion: Weird, but why on earth did you make an image of that?
14:33	nDuff	Is current noir known to work (or not) on Clojure 1.4.0? I'm getting a compile-time error (NoSuchMethodError) with 1.3.0-beta4, perhaps on account of the clj-stacktrace dependency: https://gist.github.com/5bef5eb161394e66cd58
14:33	hyPiRion	fliebel: Good question...
14:36	fliebel	hyPiRion: really weird...
14:36	Borkdude	I'm reading some CL code of 7 years ago, the parens must have driven me crazy in let*… https://gist.github.com/2638319
14:37	fliebel	aha!
14:37	fliebel	&(class (denominator 1/2))
14:37	lazybot	⇒ java.math.BigInteger
14:38	fliebel	hyPiRion: ^
14:38	hyPiRion	fliebel: Ah
14:39	hyPiRion	fliebel: Thank you. Still weird though.
14:39	fliebel	similarly: ##(= #{2.0} #{2})
14:39	lazybot	⇒ false
14:40	hyPiRion	&(remove #{2 5} (vec (into #{} [(denominator 1/2)])))
14:40	lazybot	⇒ ()
14:40	fliebel	But then I would think ##(= #{[]} #{()}) would also return false
14:40	lazybot	⇒ true
14:40	hyPiRion	So that's weird.
14:40	Bronsa	,(= [] ())
14:41	clojurebot	true
14:41	fliebel	Bronsa: Clojure normally does equality by interface, so that ##(= 2.0 2)
14:41	lazybot	⇒ false
14:41	fliebel	... that worked in my repl.
14:42	Borkdude	,(= 2 2.0)
14:42	clojurebot	false
14:42	hyPiRion	Yeah, repl and the bots aren't equivalent.
14:42	hyPiRion	,(== 2 (denominator 2))
14:42	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Ratio>
14:42	Borkdude	in my repl false
14:42	hyPiRion	whoops
14:42	fliebel	&(= 1 1/1)
14:42	lazybot	⇒ true
14:42	hyPiRion	,(== 2 (denominator 2))
14:42	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Ratio>
14:43	hyPiRion	Gah, sorry.
14:43	hyPiRion	,(== 2 (denominator 1/2))
14:43	clojurebot	true
14:43	fliebel	yea, so my point was that normally 2 different number types or 2 different collection types can be equal.
14:44	Wild_Cat	&(= (.intValue 2.0) 2)
14:44	lazybot	⇒ true
14:44	fliebel	even ##(= [1] [1.0]) is true in my repl.
14:44	lazybot	⇒ false
14:45	fliebel	But then, I'm on 1.2.1
14:45	hyPiRion	&(identity? 2 (denominator 1/2))
14:45	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: identity? in this context
14:45	fliebel	yea, something changed in 1.3
14:46	hyPiRion	&(identical? 2 (denominator 1/2))
14:46	lazybot	⇒ false
14:46	hyPiRion	There we go - I suppose they check whether they're identical or not.
14:46	fliebel	It'd be great if someone more knowingly about clojure equality could jump in.
14:48	hyPiRion	,(doc =)
14:48	clojurebot	"([x] [x y] [x y & more]); Equality. Returns true if x equals y, false if not. Same as Java x.equals(y) except it also works for nil, and compares numbers and collections in a type-independent manner. Clojure's immutable data structures define equals() (and thus =) as a value, not an identity, comparison."
14:48	hyPiRion	It's probably not more complicated than that.
14:49	fliebel	" and compares numbers and collections in a type-independent manner"
14:49	fliebel	That is what it does for 1.2... most of the time, but it seems this does not hold for 1.3+ anymore
14:50	hyPiRion	Kind of weird that ##(= 2.0 2) isn't equal then, but maybe there's some floating point magic behind the scenes.
14:50	lazybot	⇒ false
14:50	S11001001	no, = is no longer numeric equality at all
14:51	fliebel	ah! ##(doc ==)
14:51	lazybot	⇒ "([x] [x y] [x y & more]); Returns non-nil if nums all have the equivalent value (type-independent), otherwise false"
14:51	fliebel	&(== 2.0 2)
14:51	lazybot	⇒ true
14:51	hyPiRion	S11001001: Is the doc outdated then, or is my comprehension of the doc wrong?
14:52	hyPiRion	"compares numbers and collections in a type-independent manner.
14:52	S11001001	hyPiRion: probably it shouldn't say numbers anymore, though I think it still applies in some cases
14:52	hyPiRion	Ah, okay.
14:53	S11001001	,(= (Long/fromValue 42) (Integer/fromValue 42))
14:53	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method: fromValue, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
14:53	S11001001	well, one of those
14:54	hyPiRion	,(= (Long. 42) (Integer. 42) (denominator 1/2))
14:54	clojurebot	false
14:54	S11001001	er
14:54	S11001001	,(= (Long. 42) (Integer. 42))
14:54	clojurebot	true
14:54	S11001001	1/2?
14:55	hyPiRion	Lost a 4 there.
14:55	hyPiRion	,(= (Long. 42) (Integer. 42) (denominator 1/42))
14:55	clojurebot	true
14:55	S11001001	hmm, I did not know about denominator
14:56	fliebel	there's.. the other as well
14:56	hyPiRion	BigInteger, Short and friends?
14:56	S11001001	enumbriator
14:56	fliebel	$findfn 1/2 1
14:56	lazybot	[clojure.core/unchecked-inc-int clojure.core/numerator]
14:56	hyPiRion	numberator
15:05	nDuff	...actually, no...
15:08	nDuff	s/stack/classpath/
15:14	Borkdude	$findfn [1 2 3] [3 5]
15:14	lazybot	[]
15:14	Borkdude	;-)
15:16	raek	$findfn 3 1
15:16	lazybot	[]
15:17	raek	$findfn 3 1
15:17	lazybot	[]
15:17	raek	$findfn 3 1
15:17	lazybot	[]
15:18	gfredericks	$findfn 3 1
15:18	lazybot	[]
15:19	gfredericks	pff. randomness.
15:19	Bronsa	$findfn 3 2
15:19	lazybot	[clojure.core/unchecked-dec clojure.core/unchecked-dec-int clojure.core/dec' clojure.core/dec]
15:19	Bronsa	no luck.
15:19	gfredericks	Bronsa: bet it returned 1 that time
15:19	Bronsa	what about
15:19	Bronsa	$findfn 3 0
15:19	lazybot	[]
15:20	amalloy	$findfn 1 0
15:20	lazybot	[clojure.core/unchecked-dec clojure.core/rand-int clojure.core/unchecked-dec-int clojure.core/dec' clojure.core/dec]
15:20	Bronsa	that's cheating
15:20	amalloy	$findfn [4] 4
15:20	lazybot	[clojure.core/last clojure.core/peek clojure.core/first clojure.core/rand-nth]
15:42	neotyk	Hello everyone!
15:42	fliebel	neotyk: Hi
15:44	dnolen	neotyk: if I don't hear from any dissenters, I'll probably apply your patch later this evening or sometime tomorrow.
15:45	Borkdude	&findarg map % [1 2 3] [3 4 5]
15:45	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: findarg in this context
15:45	Borkdude	$findarg map % [1 2 3] [3 4 5]
15:45	neotyk	dnolen: great :)
15:45	lazybot	[]
15:45	Borkdude	$findarg map % [1 2 3] [2 3 4]
15:45	lazybot	[clojure.core/unchecked-inc-int clojure.core/unchecked-inc clojure.core/inc clojure.core/inc']
15:47	jwr7	rhickey: Finished reading the reducers blog post. Great thinking. It will become really useful for me with multiple sources and primitive-transmitting reducer function pipelines, though.
15:47	beffbernard	Anybody using Jenkins for CI? I'd like to include the GIT_COMMIT in the generated war but not sure which approach to take. Suggestions?
15:48	Borkdude	… I wonder what funcall in Clojure is … ;-)
15:48	Borkdude	$findarg map % [- + *] [1 2 3] [1 2 3] [1 2 3] [-1 6 27]
15:48	lazybot	[clojure.core/trampoline]
15:48	Borkdude	:P
15:48	@rhickey_	jwr7: yeah, primitives will be huge, I wanted to ship something before getting into that :)
15:49	jwr7	rhickey_: I wonder about the expected useful granularity of work when using fork/join though.
15:50	@rhickey_	jwr7: you can control that with an argument to fold
15:50	@rhickey_	not discussed in post
15:51	jwr7	rhickey_: you should do a BOF session about reducers at EuroClojure :-)
15:51	@rhickey_	fold n combinef reducef coll is the full sig
15:51	fliebel	neotyk: Are you going to give your presentation at amsclj tomorrow?
15:51	@rhickey_	n being the partition size hint
15:51	neotyk	fliebel: yes, working on it )
15:52	Borkdude	neotyk: I'm also coming, taking a student with me
15:52	jwr7	Now that I think about it, I'd really love to see a session where people complain about what they found problematic in Clojure and Rich answers.
15:52	fliebel	neotyk: I'm in amsterdam tomorrow, but in the wrong place, so I'll see it at euroclojure.
15:53	S11001001	I wouldn't, see Bruce's First Law of Lisp
15:53	neotyk	fliebel: too bad, would appreciate your feedback
15:54	fliebel	$google Bruce's First Law of Lisp
15:54	lazybot	[Scott's Space - Programming Quotes] http://www.stgray.com/quotes/programmingquotes.html
15:54	jwr7	rhickey_: funny how your blog post fits right into what I've been thinking over the last week or so. I wrote a lot of code that operates on sets (of integers, mostly). I kept thinking that there must be better abstractions than just map and reduce.
15:54	fliebel	S11001001: What is the law?
15:55	fliebel	(and does first imply there is a rest law of lisp?)
15:57	S11001001	If it does not do exactly what you expect with zero hours consideration or experience, it is a bug in Lisp that should be fixed.
15:57	S11001001	from http://web.archive.org/web/20070712062323/http://brucio.blogspot.com/
15:57	TimMc	nice
16:02	furth	?
16:12	felideon	oh brucio
16:12	nDuff	Ahh; I'll hazard it's clojure being listed in dependencies rather than dev-dependencies for noir that's messing me up.
16:13	Raynes	nDuff: Noir itself doesn't have any code AOT compiled against any version of Clojure. Perhaps one of its dependencies does.
16:14	hiredman	reducers needs partition with
16:14	nDuff	Raynes: yup, noticed that looking inside the jar
16:14	Raynes	nDuff: I'm pretty sure that none of them do.
16:15	nDuff	Raynes: ...the other thing I'm suspicious of -- something in the chain is pulling in clojure-1.2.1.jar; I don't expect that having it in the classpath with clojure-1.4.0 is such a great idea.
16:15	hiredman	partition-by I guess
16:15	Raynes	nDuff: In fact, I'd expect that to be the problem.
16:15	Raynes	nDuff: Do you have a version of Clojure specified in your project?
16:15	nDuff	Yes.
16:16	Raynes	It should override everything else unless somebody used a version range somewhere.
16:17	nDuff	Is that true even when using Maven rather than Leiningen?
16:17	Raynes	Leiningen uses maven for dependency resolution, so the rules apply to both.
16:17	nDuff	Ahh.
16:17	LauJensen	Good evening gents
16:19	S11001001	it may not override if someone used a hard version constraint (hopefully they didn't, they are bad)
16:20	S11001001	fortunately the default is soft constraint
16:20	S11001001	and no doubt the whole maven dependency tree would have fallen apart long ago were that not the case
16:23	jwr7	Is anybody working on a library for manipulating sets of integers in Clojure with good performance?
16:27	jonaskoelker	jwr7: you can use the java primitives?
16:27	jonaskoelker	(that's not a question, that's a statement; the question is: is that what you were asking about / is that useful knowledge to you?)
16:28	aaelony	is anyone using Apache Mahout via Clojure? is java-interop the only way to go?
16:40	nDuff	Hmm. Something was just very odd with my environment; rebuilt from a completely clean tree, and all's well.
16:46	Raynes	nDuff: `lein deps :tree` is helpful for finding out where jars are coming from btw.
16:49	TimMc	nDuff: mvn clean; rm -r ~/.mvn/repository/; mvn
16:49	TimMc	Oh wait, you're using lein. :-P
16:53	nDuff	TimMc: ...no, I am indeed using Maven.
16:53	HCumberdale	;)
16:54	nDuff	(some of the dependencies use lein, but my code is a JIRA plugin, and Atlassian's build system bits are all built as Maven plugins)
16:54	TimMc	I call that the Maven three-finger salute.
16:55	Raynes	nDuff: Your software is broken. Use leiningen. Assimilate. ASSIMILATE.
16:56	Raynes	Oh, Atlassian crap.
17:13	jodaro	i'd talk shit too but i'm stuck with perforce and bugzilla right now
17:16	jodaro	oh and sharepoint
17:17	Raynes	jodaro: Perforce is the awesome.
17:18	TimMc	We switched from perforce to svn.
17:18	Borkdude	sharepoint…
17:18	TimMc	I think there's some regret from that decision.
17:18	Borkdude	don't get me started
17:19	jodaro	i haven't been able to get into it, really
17:19	TimMc	I'm agitating for git. Might get it, too.
17:19	jodaro	yeah i'm missing github a lot
17:19	jodaro	having everything in one place is nice
17:20	lancepantz	aaelony: hey dude
17:20	lancepantz	aaelony: so you're playing around with mahout?
17:29	aaelony	lancepantz: I'm about to. Do you have a nice clojars link for me?
17:30	lancepantz	aaelony: nope, wish i did
17:30	aaelony	lancepantz: i guess java-interop then
17:30	lancepantz	i messed around with mahout when it was young, really cool stuff
17:31	aaelony	yeah, I think its matured a lot in the past year or two
17:31	Raynes	$google mahout
17:31	lazybot	[Apache Mahout: Scalable machine learning and data mining] http://mahout.apache.org/
17:31	Raynes	Man, stop making my machine learn things. It already knows far too much.
17:32	aaelony	hehe, svm-clj looks interesting too
17:33	aaelony	in any case, I'm dreaming of a cascalog-mahout package... that'd be pretty cool
17:42	Roxxi``	What is the clojure idiom for iterative function invocation (like map but with no return value)
17:43	dnolen	Roxxi``: perhaps you want doseq?
17:43	Roxxi``	Yup, thanks.
17:45	muhoo	heh, tangle of circular require's
17:45	muhoo	time to refactor :-/
17:46	muhoo	i'm surprised the compiler doesn't puke on that, actually
17:46	technomancy	it will, once you restart your process
17:49	dan_b	I'm sure this has been asked before, but maybe the answer's changed recently: after adding a dependency in project.clj, is there any way to make a running session (started with clojure-jack-in) find the new jar(s)?
17:49	nDuff	dan_b: pomegranate can dynamically download and load new dependencies
17:49	nDuff	dan_b: https://github.com/cemerick/pomegranate
17:51	dan_b	ooh, looks cool. thx
17:54	jtoy	how do you print out current time in clojure?
17:55	Raynes	&(str (java.util.Date.))
17:55	lazybot	⇒ "Tue May 08 14:55:07 PDT 2012"
17:55	devn	jtoy: you may want to look into joda time
17:55	Raynes	Unless he really only wants to print out the time.
17:56	devn	unless you really only want to print out the time
17:56	S11001001	what's time, anyway
17:56	technomancy	it should be a syntax error to use j.u.Date for anything else
17:56	jtoy	devn: Raynes way is fine i guess, I don't use java at all, but i guess clojure doesn't have a 'native' way
17:56	S11001001	what's native, anyway
17:56	Raynes	Clojure doesn't have a 'native' way to do much of anything.
17:56	Raynes	There is a reason it is hosted on the JVM. ;)
17:57	devn	S11001001: id like to raise you a mustache
17:57	Raynes	Unless we're defining native as 'a clojure function'.
17:57	Raynes	I'm defining it as 'a clojure function that does not call a Java method or something'
17:57	S11001001	I fold, no mustachioed shenanigans for me
17:57	Raynes	But they always do somewhere down the line.
17:58	zakwilson	Didn't somebody propose an LLVM port?
17:58	TimMc	Of course. :-P
17:58	antares_	jtoy: if you won't manipulate time in any way, (java.util.Date.) is good enough
17:59	antares_	jtoy: Clojure 1.4 reader even has literal support for dates/instances
17:59	zakwilson	Otherwise java.util.Date is a nightmare you don't want anything to do with.
18:00	nDuff	...that reminds me -- what ever happened to pods?
18:15	ynniv	antares_: what does the 1.4 reader do when it sees a date?
18:16	Raynes	It sprays breath freshener in its mouth and pulls the flowers out from behind its back.
18:16	ynniv	that would be better than instantiating a j.u.Date
18:17	antares_	ynniv: it prints them out using instant literals, for example: {:date #inst "2012-05-08T22:16:26.560-00:00"}
18:19	ynniv	Google sent me to http://dev.clojure.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=950382 . That looks like a good idea.
18:20	ynniv	you get j.u.Dates unless you specify otherwise
18:20	dabd	is there anyway to do (defn foo [..] ... (map recur ... )) ?
18:21	brehaut	dabd: do you want map to recur into foo ?
18:21	hyPiRion	dabd: No, it's not tail-callable.
18:22	dabd	yes
18:22	ibdknox	just call foo again then
18:22	dabd	within foo i want to call foo with each element of a list
18:22	hyPiRion	but map foo should be good enough.
18:22	ynniv	it appears that you're trying to reference the current function using 'recur', which sounds reasonable but doesn't make sense for what 'recur' does
18:23	dabd	isn't recur used to reference the current function?
18:23	ynniv	no, it's part of loop/recur
18:24	ynniv	recur as a reference to the current function is a scheme thing
18:24	dabd	(map foo ...) works
18:24	emezeske	ynniv: I'm pretty sure the function itself can be used as a recur point
18:24	emezeske	ynniv: But recur has to be in the tail position, that's the restriction
18:24	amalloy	really? recur points to the current function in scheme? i've never heard of that
18:25	ynniv	emezeske: yes, but it's a syntax, not a first class function
18:25	dabd	so the factorial here http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/recur could be written by replacing recur->factorial ?
18:26	gtrak	is there an 'into' with a filter function? I want to do some extra checks if there are duplicate keys
18:26	emezeske	dabd: No. In that case it's recurring to the (loop ...)
18:26	ynniv	dabd: referencing a function by name in its definition only works with defn
18:27	dabd	ok
18:27	ynniv	hmm, my repl suggests otherwise
18:27	gtrak	I want access the the accumulator during the reduce I suppose
18:28	gtrak	I should just use reduce
18:30	ynniv	,((defn factorial [cnt acc] (if (zero? cnt) acc (recur (dec cnt) (* acc cnt)))) 4 1)
18:30	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
18:30	ynniv	hmm
18:30	ynniv	guess you aren't going to see that
18:30	ynniv	but its the same as
18:30	ynniv	((defn factorial [cnt acc] (if (zero? cnt) acc (factorial (dec cnt) (* acc cnt)))) 4 1)
18:39	gtrak	hmmmm......
18:40	gtrak	,(+)
18:40	clojurebot	0
18:40	gtrak	,(-)
18:40	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: core$->
18:40	gtrak	why?
18:40	clojurebot	http://clojure.org/rationale
18:41	xeqi	,(- 1)
18:41	clojurebot	-1
18:45	AimHere	The why is probably because '-' has to have some special case code going on with less than 2 arguments
18:46	gtrak	a buddy told me - isn't associative
18:46	gtrak	was just thinking about it in context of the reducers news
18:47	amalloy	gtrak: right. - and / don't form monoids over the integers (or reals), in the way that + and * do. i'm not sure if that's really relevant, since they do still have an identity value, which the zero-arg versions could return
18:47	gtrak	right
18:48	amalloy	i think it's more relevant that like...there's a meaning of (*) and (+) that "makes sense", whereas for (-) to return 0 is not very obvious, and why should (/) return 1?
18:49	gtrak	,[(reduce - 1) (reduce / 2)]
18:49	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
18:49	dreish	I would imagine it's a more-or-less stylistic decision driven by the one-arg special cases.
18:49	gtrak	,[(reduce - [1]) (reduce / [2])]
18:49	clojurebot	[1 2]
18:50	dreish	+ and * have a consistent meaning regardless of how many args they are called with.
18:50	gtrak	clearly the identity is at play for reduce to work
18:50	S11001001	iow + and * are consistent with concat for the sum and product monoids
18:50	jtoy	how do you get a unix time from a date in clojure? it seem like in normal java you do: Date date = new Date (); date.setTime((long)unix_time*1000);
18:50	dreish	,(reduce str [1])
18:50	gtrak	how do you guys know this stuff? haskell?
18:50	clojurebot	1
18:51	dreish	fn never gets called if coll only has one element
18:51	technomancy	jtoy: if you just want a number you can do System/getCurrentTimeMillis
18:51	gtrak	ah, actually, my example was worthless
18:51	technomancy	and divide by 1000 if you want secondsn
18:51	amalloy	gtrak: well, a little haskell. but i was introduced to monoids when i watched chouser's video on finger trees
18:51	S11001001	gtrak: consider: can you write an id such that for all nums i, (+ id i) yields i?
18:52	S11001001	numerically speaking, discounting weird type conversions & such
18:53	jtoy	technomancy: that is all i want, (System/getCurrentTimeMillis) isn't found?
18:53	gtrak	S11001001, ah, yea, that works for minus only if you put id on the right :-)
18:53	dreish	,(System/currentTimeMillis)
18:53	clojurebot	1336517597611
18:53	S11001001	gtrak: the point of the id is that it has no effect; you can put as many in as you want, wherever you want, and the ids won't change the result
18:54	hiredman	jtoy: that example code goes in the opposite direction of your question
18:54	gtrak	right
18:54	jtoy	hiredman: why?
18:54	hiredman	your question reads like you want to get the unix timestamp of a java.util.Date, but that example code turns a unix timestamp in to a java.util.Date
18:55	dreish	,(System/getenv "USER")
18:55	clojurebot	#<AccessControlException java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission getenv.USER)>
18:55	S11001001	gtrak: you can also find an id for *, and hell, for concat as well
18:55	jtoy	I just want current time, (System/currentTimeMillis) seems to work
18:55	dreish	_Nice_.
18:56	S11001001	gtrak: there are very many other identities, in fact exactly one for each monoid, but what you won't find is one for - or / :)
18:57	gtrak	fun :-)
19:01	S11001001	gtrak: I think the list of clojure data structures that don't imply monoids is shorter than the list of those that do. Since monoidal identities are quite useful in ordinary generic programming, I suggest keeping them all in mind
19:02	gtrak	is this covered in category theory texts a bit?
19:03	amalloy	yeah, monoids are one of the most useful/common categories in terms of CS
19:04	gtrak	I will prioritize this book in my queue
19:05	gtrak	still trying to slog through reasoned schemer :-)
19:08	ynniv	dreish: you answered my question before I even asked it. awesome
19:09	ynniv	two bits up. 3!
19:24	zii-prime	argh. How do I test if a thing has been def'd yet?
19:24	S11001001	,(doc ns-publics)
19:24	clojurebot	"([ns]); Returns a map of the public intern mappings for the namespace."
19:24	technomancy	,(doc resolve)
19:24	clojurebot	"([sym] [env sym]); same as (ns-resolve ns symbol) or (ns-resolve ns &env symbol)"
19:24	S11001001	&such
19:24	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: such in this context
19:24	S11001001	:)
19:26	zii-prime	ooh thanks :)
19:30	zii-prime	better question: is there an easy way to test for a var being unbound?
19:31	brehaut	,(doc bound?)
19:31	clojurebot	"([& vars]); Returns true if all of the vars provided as arguments have any bound value, root or thread-local. Implies that deref'ing the provided vars will succeed. Returns true if no vars are provided."
19:31	nDuff	zii-prime: what's the context? If your goal is to avoid redefinitions, you might want to use defonce
19:36	zii-prime	nDuff: eh, i'm prolly just micro-optimizing the syntax... context: only want one instance of the app open; if main is called again it should close the previous window
19:36	zii-prime	defonce is good enough
20:46	XPherior	Can someone explain why this require call doesn't work? https://gist.github.com/2640779
20:48	emezeske	XPherior: Care to elaborate on what you mean by "doesn't work"?
20:48	XPherior	emezeske: Yeah, my fault. Let me add the stack trace to the gist.
20:48	emezeske	^_^
20:48	XPherior	emezeske: It's there now. :)
20:49	LuminousMonkey	main: core in project.clj
20:50	LuminousMonkey	Isn't it supposed to be main: deps-sandbox.core
20:50	LuminousMonkey	And do you need (gen-class) in the namespace declaration?
20:51	XPherior	LuminousMonkey: I don't see that.
20:51	XPherior	LuminousMonkey: That fixed it, thanks :)
20:51	XPherior	I'm still getting used to Clojure project structure. Little things keep throwing me off.
20:52	LuminousMonkey	I'm the same. :)
20:52	XPherior	Also, if I try to evalulate a form in Emacs, it obviously can't find the packages I'm using in the file. Is this a common problem, or am I going about it wrong?
20:53	hiredman	you need to restart the jvm when you add a dependency like that
20:53	gfredericks	rhickey's recent post makes me think of functors
20:54	XPherior	hiredman: That seems really.. Extreme?
20:54	cshell	I just saw that post, didn't quite understand it the first time through - any good pointers to books/blogs that would help?
20:55	gfredericks	cshell: pff; I only know about functors from reading about monads. Probably that means you should just learn haskell :)
20:55	LuminousMonkey	XPherior: Can you explain what you mean in another way?
20:55	LuminousMonkey	XPherior: I think I might know what you mean, but I'm not sure.
20:56	XPherior	LuminousMonkey: Hm, I'll try. So I'm trying to play around with Hiccup, and I want to just write some code and evalulate the form inside Emacs. When I try that though, Emacs doesn't know where Hiccup is.
20:56	hiredman	XPherior: there are various mechanisms for loading code in to a jvm without using the classpath (which is fixed and static) none of which have really taken off
20:56	mebaran151	gfredericks: more technically monoids I think :)
20:56	hiredman	so M-x clojure-jack-in again
20:56	gfredericks	mebaran151: eh?
20:57	XPherior	hiredman: Got'cha.
20:57	LuminousMonkey	Have you (require '[hiccup.core :as hic]) in SLIME?
20:57	XPherior	hiredman: Odd. I don't have that function. Let me go figure that out.
20:57	hiredman	XPherior: get a newer clojure-mode
20:57	LuminousMonkey	Or evaled the ns declaration then switched to that ns in SLIME?
20:57	XPherior	LuminousMonkey: It blew up
20:58	XPherior	Same trace
20:58	XPherior	hiredman: Okay, I'll do that now
20:58	hiredman	I recommend running from the clojure-mode git, but the in one in marmalade should be fairly up to date
20:59	cshell	gfredericks: thanks, i'm still trying to learn clojure though :)
20:59	gfredericks	cshell: don't worry, several paragraphs later it is bogging me down too
21:02	cshell	gfredericks: yeah, I guess I'll have to read it several times more
21:02	mebaran151	gfredericks: he's talking about folds in terms of monoid operations, as opposed to just mapping a function (i.e. instead of mapping into collections of the same type (list -> list), which I think is a requirement of functors, he's building a more general framework where you have two functions, one to get the item of the first collection and another to combine with composite result, that you can then pipe somewhere else
21:05	cshell	mebaran151: man, i've been stuck in simple java land for way too long
21:05	mebaran151	cshell: Haskell is a good way to stretch your brain this way :)
21:06	cshell	mebaran151: better thank clojure?
21:07	gfredericks	mebaran151: I will rapidly alternate between reading the post and your paragraph and see what happens
21:07	cshell	gfredericks: maybe i should try that too
21:08	mebaran151	cshell: you can actually get stuff done in clojure; the type discipline in Haskell makes you deal with the concepts a little more directly, which can be burdensome in the beginning of a project (sometimes I just want to throw something on a web page, heh)
21:09	gfredericks	Haskell on a Horse?
21:11	mebaran151	gfredericks: I played with Yesod a little bit, which seemed well designed but getting non-trivial stuff up and running in Haskell can be a little tricky
21:12	mebaran151	you look at these type signatures Handler a b c q f g and just wonder how you'll get your humble little string where you actually want it
21:13	gfredericks	these reducers are rather interesting
21:14	gfredericks	mebaran151: I only just now got to the fold part
21:33	TimMc	weavejester: Thoughts on adding an "initialize" feature to the ragtime migrations protocol? Could really help with DBs. I'd be willing to do the impl.
21:34	weavejester	TimMc: Could you explain what you mean?
21:36	TimMc	weavejester: Well, ragtime's sql support currently looks pretty good once you have a DB with a schema and a migrations table. But how do you handle the initial condition, where the DB is empty and there isn't a migrations table yet?
21:37	weavejester	TimMc: The SQL database type checks to see if there's a migrations table and if none exists, it creates one.
21:37	gfredericks	supposedly elastic beanstalk lets you deploy ring apps. Does anyone know if that totally precludes using aleph asynchronously instead?
21:38	TimMc	weavejester: (I'm having trouble with my windowing system at the moment, so I won't be able to look at the code for a few minutes.)
21:38	weavejester	gfredericks: Unless things have changed, elastic beanstalk deploys via war to a Tomcat 6 server. No Netty, no async.
21:39	gfredericks	weavejester: okay, thanks
21:43	gozala	Can anyone explain what exactly rfn does https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core/reducers.clj#L125
21:43	TimMc	weavejester: So the implied setup code would be: 1) Create JDBC spec, 2) connect and create schema if probes indicate certain tables don't exist, 3) create a SQL Migrations record, 4) migrate-all ?
21:45	weavejester	TimMc: Currently each time a migration is applied or removed for an SqlDatabase, the migrations table is created if it doesn't exist.
21:45	weavejester	TimMc: I guess it could be more efficient with a setup/teardown
21:46	weavejester	I need to get to sleep though :)
21:47	TimMc	weavejester: Wasn't thinking about efficiency, just simplicity of program initialization.
21:47	TimMc	OK, g'night. Thanks for setting me straight, I think I understand it now.
21:48	weavejester	Night
21:51	TimMc	I guess it doesn't make sense for ragtime to be responsible for detecting blank schemas.
22:05	muhoo	i remember there being some neat lein thing that'll automatically reload files in repl when they change? but i forgot its name
22:40	muhoo	gah, illegal access error. i have a "global" foo.core/bar, i'm importing it to other ns's, and at times it seems the ns'es which use that bar sometimes catch it when it is unbound. or something. weird.
22:40	muhoo	this is on a noir app, so there is some dynamic recompilation going on in the background iirc
22:55	muhoo	recursive slappage
22:57	muhoo	(defn smoke-two-joints [] (smoke-two-joints) (recur))
22:57	gfredericks	I don't think that recur ever gets reached
23:00	cshell	hehe
23:04	gfredericks	muhoo: (#(% %) #(% %))
23:07	muhoo	gfredericks: that's my problem with the song!
23:08	muhoo	it drove me nuts. i thought, "well, if you smoke 2 joints before you smoke 2 joints, and THEN you smoke 2 more, you'll never get to that last smoke 2 joints. it's unreachable!"
23:08	gfredericks	^ that's like an unDRYable expression
23:08	echo-area	amalloy: I finally end up with this function, dropping-transform: http://pastebin.com/rsbDev0d What do you think?
23:08	muhoo	then i realize, the dude was so stoned, obviously he wasn't thinking about that.
23:09	echo-area	amalloy: The final `loop' form is just an example, not the actual use of inputs.
23:09	muhoo	also, that (#(% %) #(% %)) is great, a clojure fork bomb
23:10	muhoo	&(#(% %) #(% %))
23:10	lazybot	java.lang.StackOverflowError
23:10	muhoo	ya
23:10	gfredericks	just a stack bomb
23:10	gfredericks	muhoo: try refactoring out the repetition
23:10	muhoo	in the stack bomb, or in that song?
23:10	gfredericks	the stack bomb
23:11	muhoo	&#(% %)
23:11	lazybot	⇒ #<sandbox3826$eval11950$fn__11951 sandbox3826$eval11950$fn__11951@1f7480>
23:11	muhoo	huh
23:11	muhoo	&(#(% %))
23:11	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: sandbox3826$eval11960$fn
23:11	muhoo	interesting
23:11	gfredericks	&(#(% %) partial)
23:11	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$partial
23:12	gfredericks	boo
23:12	gfredericks	&(#(% %) complement)
23:12	lazybot	⇒ #<core$complement$fn__3929 clojure.core$complement$fn__3929@1aa4afc>
23:12	muhoo	&(#(% %) identity)
23:12	muhoo	uh-oh
23:12	muhoo	&(#(% %) identity)
23:12	lazybot	⇒ #<core$identity clojure.core$identity@481e6a>
23:13	muhoo	&(#(identity %))
23:13	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: sandbox3826$eval12000$fn
23:13	gfredericks	muhoo: the % makes it an arity-1 function
23:13	gfredericks	you can't call it with no args
23:15	muhoo	fun though. maybe i'll play with it later