#clojure – 2012-05-07

2012-05-07

00:10	technomancy	I have some cljs code where I try to call a constructor that takes an object, and I'm passing it a map. it gets compiled to a cljs.core.ObjMap.fromObject call, which bombs on "Error: No property strobj on this GObject StLabel"
00:10	technomancy	any idea what's going on there?
00:18	Raynes	Dear ladies and gentleman of the night's watch: if you've ever tried typing a let on refheap and have any idea what I'm saying when I talk about an indentation bug, you'll be pleased to hear that it is now fixed. Carry on.
00:19	devn	technomancy: sounds familiar -- maybe you're requires for goog.* something or other?
00:20	devn	technomancy: it reminds me of a problem requiring goog.string and/or goog.string.StringBuffer
00:20	technomancy	I'm not using any goog classes on purpose here
00:21	devn	technomancy: that's all i had handy, but it reminded me of when I took StringBuffer out of the mix because it seemed to be working fine without it, but chouser ran into trouble
00:21	devn	(in core.cljs)
00:26	mmarczyk	technomancy: wild guess -- if that constructors loops over the properties of the object it is passed and assumes they correspond to its own properties of some sort, it could end up trying to set its nonexistent strobj property when passed an ObjMap
00:29	mmarczyk	technomancy: I'm assuming by "passing it a map" you mean doing something like (Foo. {"asdf" 1}) in place of (Foo. (js-object "asdf" 1)) -- that simply won't work -- you'll need to write a map->obj function and perform a conversion or use js-object as above (the version which takes arguments is only available on master, though -- (doto (js-object) (aset ...)) in releases) or rely on ObjMap's strobj by extracting it from the map
00:29	mmarczyk	(hacky, kludgey, to be avoided etc.)
00:29	mmarczyk	technomancy: (btw, removing (.-strobj some-obj-map) kludges from TwitterBuzz made it quite a lot faster)
00:30	yoklov	mmarczyk: you mean js-obj, right?
00:30	technomancy	yeah, I was just trying an explicit strobj call
00:30	technomancy	it looks like that does the trick
00:30	mmarczyk	yoklov: technomancy: yeah, thanks
00:30	technomancy	I don't care about speed here
00:31	mmarczyk	technomancy: incidentally, are you doing gnome gui scripting in cljs? :-)
00:31	technomancy	mmarczyk: trying to =)
00:31	mmarczyk	technomancy: cooooool 8-)
00:31	technomancy	mmarczyk: yeah, it's the first use I've had for Clojurescript
00:33	mmarczyk	technomancy: any chance at all you might consider blogging about the experience?
00:33	mmarczyk	technomancy: I've been thinking about writing some X-related stuff in cljs, could use a nice intro :-)
00:33	technomancy	mmarczyk: I'll definitely post about it if I get it working
00:34	mmarczyk	technomancy: looking forward to it!
00:34	yoklov	it's easy to forget that javascript is a scripting language for so many things, can't wait to see where people using it for non-browser stuff goes
00:34	technomancy	gnome 3 has some problems, but it's the first "mainstream" desktop that "gets it" as far as user-level extensions
00:34	technomancy	(FSVO mainstream)
00:35	muhoo	um, is there a select form element in noir?
00:36	muhoo	oh, nm, i see, it's all in hiccup
00:36	muhoo	i think
00:37	mmarczyk	really? well that's encouraging, might actually try it then
00:38	technomancy	I'm hoping as a first step to port devilspie to clojurescript
00:38	mmarczyk	I shouldn't be bothered much with any UI issues, I'll be replacing the WM first thing... but I hardly expected any benefit
00:38	technomancy	if that goes well possibly porting xmonad-type behaviour
00:38	technomancy	shouldn't be too difficult; xmonad is only 1200 LOC =)
00:39	mmarczyk	:-)
00:39	muhoo	ah, it's called "drop-down", not select
00:40	mmarczyk	I was actually trying to decide whether I'd want to implement a WM in CLJS... on the one hand, that would be simply very cool and probably the most convenient WM configuration experience for me, on the other, I'd lose my no. 1 occasion to use Haskell :-P
00:40	yoklov	haha, i'm always upset when i have to touch my xmonad config
00:40	technomancy	the lack of runtime eval reeeeeeally sucks when writing something with dotfiles
00:40	yoklov	i always upset haskell's compiler
00:41	mmarczyk	well, I'm mostly bothered by Cabal
00:42	yoklov	oh, definitely
00:42	meiji11	I'm trying to create & manipulate a PersistentQueue in the REPL, but it just spits back a PersistentQueue object, when it should return a popped item. what is going on..
00:43	yoklov	but i feel like whenever i write a new function i manage to piss off the type system
00:43	mmarczyk	:-)
00:43	yoklov	meiji11: pop returns the new queue, peek returns the top item
00:44	yoklov	err, wait, maybe first?
00:45	yoklov	both work
00:46	Raynes	mmarczyk: Cabal is the best thing ever.
00:47	Raynes	Obviously.
00:47	technomancy	Raynes: I thought mix was
00:47	Raynes	Mix is just leiningen 3.
00:47	technomancy	haha
00:52	mmarczyk	Raynes: if you believe only members of the Cabal should be allowed to build largish projects in Haskell, whereas the uninitiated should be prevented from doing so in such a way that they think they are being helped
00:55	meiji11	yoklov: right, just like with vectors.. duh. thanks.
00:57	yoklov	meiji11: yup, no problem!
01:11	technomancy	mmarczyk: what I've got so far, if you're curious: http://p.hagelb.org/syme.cljs.html
01:11	technomancy	the individual functions work if I call them on their own, but put together as an extension for some reason it doesn't click
01:13	mmarczyk	looks very cool nevertheless
01:13	mmarczyk	what compilation options are you using?
01:13	mmarczyk	also, release or master cljs?
01:38	ivan	Windows users without SLIME/Swank might be interested in the new and improved https://github.com/alandipert/clj-swingrepl
01:38	ivan	(thanks to conhost being unusable)
03:08	mrphoebs	Hi guys, I'm n00b. I'm trying to integrate clojure into a java project. I'm using the "gen-class" function to generate classes. In the :methods vector how do I write the signature of a method whose return type is a list of strings eg ":method [ methodname [] <????> ]"
03:08	mrphoebs	I'm a n00b*
03:13	hoeck1	mrphoebs: you need to use weird jvm array type literal, see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2398478/declare-array-as-return-type-in-gen-class-method-declaration-in-clojure
03:14	mrphoebs	Thanks @hoeck1 that helps
03:15	hoeck1	mrphoebs: your're welcome :)
03:29	jondot	anyone here doing both clojure and erlang?
03:38	Raynes	jondot: I've done some Elixir, which is... at least an Erlang derivative.
03:39	jondot	Raynes, that's also interesting. i'm kinda wondering if to get into erlang. how mature is elixir?
03:42	Raynes	jondot: Admittedly not very. It's still in the "everything can change" state.
03:42	Raynes	It's a fun language though. I know that the language author at least as some code in production in his company.
03:42	Raynes	has*
03:45	jondot	i see
03:56	ivan	how do I use require inside a function/macro? I keep getting "RuntimeException: No such namespace: "
03:56	ivan	do I have to poke at namespaces manually?
04:00	ivan	I'm trying to write a function for my REPL :init that loads some libraries and does things
04:01	emezeske	ivan: (defn f [] (require 'clojure.string))
04:01	emezeske	ivan: I'm pretty sure that works
04:02	ivan	I'm using :as, maybe that breaks things?
04:02	ivan	user=> (defn f [] (require 'cljs.repl) (repl/repl))
04:02	ivan	CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: repl, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:12)
04:03	emezeske	No, :as is fine
04:03	ivan	oh, I see what I did wrong above, let me try again
04:04	ivan	user=> (defn f [] (require '[cljs.repl :as repl]) (repl/repl (rhino/repl-env) :warn-on-undeclared true))
04:04	ivan	CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: repl, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:23)
04:04	emezeske	What is rhino/ ? Do you require that namespace?
04:05	ivan	yeah, I did; omitted in my paste
04:05	emezeske	Well, this works fine for me: (defn f [] (require '[clojure.string :as s]) (s/blank? ""))
04:06	emezeske	So I'd be suspicious of the rhino/ before I was suspiciuos of the repl/
04:06	emezeske	Err, it says repl
04:06	emezeske	NM
04:06	ivan	user=> (defn x [] (require '[clojure.string :as s]) (s/blank? ""))
04:06	ivan	CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: s, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:4)
04:07	samrat1	what's the best way to run a single .clj file? (not a project, but just a script)
04:07	emezeske	ivan: I'm running against clojure 1.4, not sure if that makes a difference?
04:07	ivan	same. maybe my REPL env is messed up
04:07	emezeske	ivan: I dunno, but that seems very weird. Wish I could help more, but I'm stumped! :)
04:08	ivan	totally vanilla Clojure 1.3.0 REPL started with java -jar: user=> (defn x [] (require '[clojure.string :as s]) (s/blank? ""))
04:08	ivan	CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: s, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:1)
04:10	emezeske	ivan: Yeah, I restarted my REPL and saw that
04:11	emezeske	ivan: I must have run f with just the require one time
04:11	ivan	yep
04:11	emezeske	don't listen to me! ^_^
04:12	emezeske	ivan: So I think in your situation you might need to use (resolve)
04:12	emezeske	ivan: Or maybe just use all fully-qualified names
04:12	ivan	fully-qualified names don't work either inside the function
04:12	ivan	I'll check out resolve, thanks
04:13	emezeske	ivan: This works on a fresh REPL for me: (defn f [] (require '[clojure.string]) ((resolve 'clojure.string/blank?) ""))
04:13	ivan	cool, thanks
04:13	emezeske	good luck, sir, I'm outta here! :)
04:17	ivan	that works because clojure.string/blank? is available without requiring :)
04:18	ivan__	ivan: damn i keep looking at the bottom window of limechat and seeing 'myself' talking....
04:18	ivan	I found a defmacro locally-using on the mailing list
04:19	ivan	ivan__: I see myself joining channels I'm already in
04:19	ivan__	heh
04:22	ivan	I wonder if I can do a different horrible thing: spawn a thread that requires the libraries that take 10 seconds to load
04:25	ivan__	ivan: seems like a good idea, although i have no idea how loading works in clojure
04:25	ivan__	i would assume it would work though
04:27	ivan	On OSes with fork, it would be cool to automatically create zygote REPLs with everything loaded, then fork them when the user wants a REPL
04:27	ivan	(I hope the JVM will not complain)
04:33	ivan	is there some way to feed forms into an already-running REPL, so that the (require) is at run outside of a function?
04:34	ivan	alright, I'm just going to make a different :init for CLJS :)
04:40	michaelr525	hey
04:52	ivan	anyone else see EvaluatorException unterminated comment (goog/deps.js#1) with ClojureScript and Closure Library trunk?
04:52	ivan	seems that Rhino can't handle files that end with a /* block comment */
05:29	ivan	filed a Closure Library bug, hopefully they'll remove the block comment making Rhino break
05:31	calvados	is there clojure lib works with couchbase ?
05:33	forsakendaemon	I've just used clj-http...
05:46	robertstuttaford	i'm struggling with Korma. "CannotAcquireResourceException A ResourcePool could not acquire a resource from its primary factory or source." the details i've given to defdb work 100% with MySQLWorkbench
05:46	robertstuttaford	what can i try?
05:49	hoeck1	robertstuttaford: does a plain JDBC connection work?
05:50	kral	namaste
05:50	robertstuttaford	i've no idea. apologies, but i also have no idea how to try that. not a java person
05:50	robertstuttaford	found some code to try...
05:51	michaelr525	maybe try connecting with squirelsql, it's a java (jdbc) client to test your connection details under jdbc
06:01	robertstuttaford	straight jdbc works; i can query data
06:05	robertstuttaford	but when i switch back to korma and attempt a (select) i get the CannotAcquireResourceException
06:07	hoeck1	robertstuttaford: never used korma too, the CannotAcquireResourceException originates from the resource pool used by korma, c3p0
06:07	robertstuttaford	i hate problems like this. takes the wind out of my sails :-\|
06:08	hoeck1	robertstuttaford: there should be some additional info or a wrapped exception,maybe paste the full stacktrace of your exception somewhere
06:08	hoeck1	robertstuttaford: I know, I know :)
06:10	robertstuttaford	ok, i used ccw's print-full-exception
06:10	robertstuttaford	wrapped exception is "Connections could not be acquired from the underlying database!"
06:10	robertstuttaford	i'm using precisely the same hash passed to jdbc directly and it's giving me this
06:14	michaelr525	maybe wrong driver?
06:15	robertstuttaford	i added (database nameofdatabase) to each (defentity) and now it works
06:15	robertstuttaford	docs say it automatically uses the last provided defdb, i guess not in my case!
06:16	michaelr525	oh
06:16	robertstuttaford	i think i'm also struggling with understanding what changes when i send the whole .clj file to ccw's repl
06:17	robertstuttaford	well, i'm up and away now :) -phew- thanks hoeck1 and michaelr525 for your help
06:21	michaelr525	something that annoys me is the one-compile-error-a-time thing
06:22	michaelr525	i'd rather have a list of all errors
06:47	michaelr525	err
06:48	michaelr525	any way in webnoir to get the part after "/n/" in a url like this: "http://localhost/n/10/20/30"? What comes after "/n/" can vary in the number of URI element.
06:49	michaelr525	for example it can also be
06:49	michaelr525	"http://localhost/n/1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/8"
06:56	clgv	michaelr525: since that cant be a fixed route you probably have to catch all routes matching a given prefix and parse the rest yourself
06:56	faust45	hi guys
06:56	faust45	have a question
06:56	clgv	michaelr525: or is there regexp support?
06:57	faust45	how i can include to my project this lib http://commons.apache.org/fileupload/apidocs/index.html
06:57	clgv	faust45: you should just ask it ;)
06:57	faust45	[org.apache.commons/fileupload "1.2.1"]
06:57	faust45	not working
06:58	clgv	faust45: these are in the maven repo: http://search.maven.org/#search\|ga\|1\|fileupload
06:58	faust45	sorry i don't familiar with java libs
06:58	faust45	so how i can use http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cfileupload
06:58	clgv	faust45: hence [commons-fileupload "1.2.2"] should work
06:59	faust45	clgv: yes looks good ) thanks
07:00	cemerick	am I right that js-obj was broken until a couple of days ago?
07:00	faust45	clgv: but which name space i need to use in :import section ?
07:00	clgv	faust45: the javanamespace plus classname
07:01	faust45	clgv: (org.apache.commons.fileupload ServletFileUpload) ?
07:01	clgv	faust45: yeah, looks good if the class exists ^^
07:02	faust45	clgv: thanks
07:11	michaelr525	clgv: yeah regex did it :)
07:12	michaelr525	thanks
07:12	clgv	michaelr525: how does it look like now?
07:12	michaelr525	(defpage node [:get ["/n/:path" :path #".*"]] {:keys [path]}
07:12	michaelr525	hairy :)
07:13	clgv	ah ok. so it's supported within the routes :)
07:13	michaelr525	yup
07:14	michaelr525	i could also get it like this: (defpage node "/n/*" [& path]
07:15	michaelr525	but then path was a list with a vector inside it
07:16	clgv	michaelr525: humm (defpage node "/n/*" [& path] ..) should get only the vector in 'path
07:16	clgv	args that I meant: (defpage node "/n/*" [path] ..)
07:19	robertstuttaford	with korma, is it possible to define a has-one with a conditional to use when querying it? eg, say i have document has-many versions. i want to document has-one current-version and define the query for how to get just one version
07:19	robertstuttaford	kinda like active-record does it
07:42	faust45	how i can import javax.servlet.http.HttpServletRequest in my app?
07:44	clgv	faust45: the class?
07:44	faust45	clgv: yes
07:44	clgv	clgv: like the other java class before - it's always the same scheme
07:44	clgv	faust45: (:import javax.servlet.http.HttpServletRequest)
07:45	faust45	clgv: but (javax.servlet.http HttpServletRequest) not working
07:45	faust45	ClassNotFoundException
07:45	clgv	faust45: so either the namespace is false or you need a library for that class
07:45	faust45	clgv: did you know with lib?
07:46	clgv	no idea
07:47	michaelr525	faust45: what are you trying to do?
07:48	faust45	michaelr525: simple web server with handle file uploading
07:49	michaelr525	why aren't you using something like webnoir/ring/compojure?
07:49	michaelr525	the class you are looking for seems to come with a servlet container: http://www.jarfinder.com/index.php/java/info/javax.servlet.http.HttpServletRequest
07:50	faust45	michaelr525: just what make this by hands
07:51	michaelr525	if you are using leiningen you can try to add jetty to your project.clj
07:51	michaelr525	otherwise just throw it's jar in your classpath
07:51	faust45	michaelr525: but how i can include my project http://www.jarfinder.com/index.php/java/info/javax.servlet.http.HttpServletRequest ?
07:53	michaelr525	are you using leiningen?
07:55	michaelr525	faust45: check this https://github.com/mmcgrana/ring/blob/master/ring-jetty-adapter/project.clj
07:56	michaelr525	or this: https://github.com/mmcgrana/ring/blob/master/ring-servlet/project.clj
08:02	faust45	michaelr525: thanks!
08:03	robertstuttaford	any folks using korma here?
08:05	Borkdude	cemerick: I have a student with the same macbook air, he downloaded eclipse, installed leiningen+ccw, worked fine. I copied his entire eclipse folder to my machine
08:06	robertstuttaford	for some reason a (with thing) for a has-many association is coming up with [] instead of actual rows
08:06	Borkdude	cemerick: keep getting those wonky errors… https://gist.github.com/2627392 <- could it be a system global thing that is in the way and if so, where should I look? any clues?
08:06	robertstuttaford	using dry-run shows me sql that, when used in mysql console, works
08:07	cemerick	Borkdude: Try using the known-good eclipse from a dummy user account.
08:08	cemerick	The errors you've gotten have changed, with presumably no clear reason. I've never seen any of them, and don't have any good theories at the moment.
08:08	Borkdude	cemerick: will try that
08:17	Borkdude	cemerick: it works under a dummy account!!
08:17	Borkdude	cemerick: now I still have to find out what could be troubling lein/ccw
08:17	cemerick	Borkdude: well, you're getting closer :-)
08:18	cemerick	Try a new eclipse workspace (not in the dummy account)
08:23	Borkdude	have tried that, but will try again later, gtg now again (work)
08:23	Borkdude	cemerick: tnx so far
08:31	Borkdude	got a few minutes left
08:31	Borkdude	cemerick: no luck in new workspace with the known-good one, it must be something in my settings, global jars, or smth?
08:32	Borkdude	cemerick: could it be smith in my .m2 dir?
08:32	Borkdude	cemerick: known-good one + new workspace under my normal user account that is
08:34	cemerick	I can't imagine .m2 being involved.
08:35	cemerick	Borkdude: In your copy of eclipse, uninstall all of ccw and the lein plugin. The re-install.
08:35	cemerick	I'd almost hope that that wouldn't work. :-P
08:35	Borkdude	cemerick: tried it several times….
08:35	Borkdude	it must be something in my home environment, but what...
08:37	Borkdude	gtg now again
08:46	mmarczyk	has anybody encountered a "No such var: useful.utils/Adjoin" exception (apparently originating in protobuf.core, which does indeed refer to that protocol in this way) when using clojure-protobuf? it's driving me crazy atm :-(
08:50	clgv	mmarczyk: is using a previous release an option? maybe it's an inconsistent snapshot?
08:55	mmarczyk	clgv: hm, it might be an option
08:57	mmarczyk	clgv: it's 0.6.0-beta16 though... also, the only version of useful on the classpath is the one depended on by protobuf. so, no idea what's going on :-/
09:02	kzar	I've been messing around with clojurescript one via inferior-lisp in Emacs and I've found that sometimes the repl gets in weird state whereby every time I try to eval something it just hangs until I abort. (It seems to happen when I've messed up somehow, problem is I can never seem to recover without killing the process and firing it up again.)
09:03	kzar	Also I've found the result of what I eval at the repl isn't always returned
09:07	mattfredwill	Anyone have any experience using clojure for (Simple) 3d game dev?
09:07	kzar	(If I eval 1 it's not returned to the repl, if I eval (+ 1 1) 2 _is_ returned.)
09:09	mattfredwill	clojure-games.org seems a little light on content so I'm wondering if its just a dead site or if clojure game dev is a bad idea
09:15	jwr7	The lack of a complete, stable and current Redis client library for Clojure is becoming a problem...
09:16	jwr7	There is redis-clojure (recently brought back from the dead), clj-redis and accession, none of which are complete. I don't even know where to contribute :-)
09:35	robertstuttaford	cemerick: friend looks awesome! how plug-n-play is it for doing something like supporting a local-database signin along with facebook and twitter?
09:35	babilen	How can I test if a map is present in a collection? (Something like "(contains? [{:foo "bar"}] {:foo "bar"}) → true)
09:36	cemerick	robertstuttaford: once there's a library offering an oauth workflow for friend, then…very plug and play :-P
09:36	cemerick	I'm idly evaluating the options in the oauth area this week.
09:36	rhc	babilen: maybe (== (select-keys my-map (keys smaller-map)) smaller-map)
09:36	robertstuttaford	ok, great. i want to use friend to secure my rest json api
09:36	fliebel	babilen: Like any value, using.. some unexpected name, like ony? or something, can;t remember
09:36	robertstuttaford	but the userbase already has direct and facebook accounts in it
09:38	fliebel	babilen: http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/some
09:38	cemerick	robertstuttaford: yup, definitely working on it.
09:38	robertstuttaford	awesomesauce!
09:38	cemerick	Currently considering using scribe for the guts of the oauth impl.
09:38	fliebel	&(some #{{:a 1}} [1 2 {:a 1} {:a 2}])
09:38	lazybot	⇒ {:a 1}
09:38	babilen	fliebel: Yeah, I found some, but I find it ... well ... ugly. Just wanted to see if there is a better solution. (fsvo better)
09:39	robertstuttaford	i've been reading the book non-stop. i can vaguely remember roughing out a design for some upcoming work in clojure in a dream last night. i might be a little too interested in clojure :)
09:39	babilen	fliebel: Thanks a lot! :) (/me thinks that contains? should work for that (just like it should work for lists, but meh))
09:40	fliebel	yea, it should..
09:40	fliebel	&(contains? [{:a 1} {:a 2}] {:a 1})
09:40	lazybot	⇒ false
09:41	babilen	&(contains? '(1 2 3) 1)
09:41	lazybot	⇒ false
09:41	babilen	shrug
09:42	fliebel	huh
09:42	cemerick	robertstuttaford: I'm glad you're liking it. :-) Nothing wrong with enthusiasm, of course
09:43	jwr7	cemerick: your book is good. It's among the top-2 clojure books (alongside "The Joy of Clojure"). I should know, I own all Clojure books published so far :-)
09:44	fliebel	why on earth would that be...
09:45	cemerick	jwr7: Thanks :-D
09:45	foxdonut	jwr7: do you have programming clojure 2nd edition? if so, what do you think of it?
09:36	kzar	,(.contains '(1 2 3 "babilen") 1)
09:36	clojurebot	true
09:37	dnolen	xb
09:37	dnolen	oops
09:37	jwr7	foxdonut: I read the first edition, never looked closely at the second one. The first one was too basic for me, I couldn't find much in it. Also, I didn't like the choice of examples (a build system ...).
09:37	fliebel	kzar: ?
09:38	fliebel	Ok, so contains? only tests for indexed things, like vectors, maps, etc.
09:38	fliebel	ruturns false otherwise
09:38	fliebel	&(contains? [:a :b :c] 2)
09:38	lazybot	⇒ true
09:38	babilen	contains? is, well, horribly named
09:38	fliebel	yea
09:38	kzar	fliebel: contains? is for the key not value, so (contains? ["a" "b"] 0) would return true but (contains? ["a" "b"] 10) would return false
09:38	kzar	,(contains? {:a 1} :a)
09:38	clojurebot	true
09:39	dnolen	jwr7: yeah the 1st edition of PC dates itself :)
09:39	fliebel	kzar: Yea, I figured that our, but what does the java method you use?
09:40	kzar	fliebel: I can't tell you so much about it, I just remembered it's often what you want instead
09:40	fliebel	I avoided contains? for so lang, I forgot why I avoided it.
09:40	babilen	I will probably never use it again :)
09:42	kzar	babilen: Yea I feel something like contains-key? and contains-value? would be better names
09:42	babilen	+1
09:42	fliebel	wow, you can use it to test the length of a string? ##(contains? "abc" 5)
09:42	lazybot	⇒ false
09:42	fliebel	kzar: That's what the underlying java methods are called.
09:42	fliebel	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/RT.java#L698
09:43	kzar	fliebel: "... fools seldom differ." eh?
09:43	fliebel	kzar: Not familiar with that saying?
09:43	robertstuttaford	it's better than patrick :-)
09:55	echo-area	Had anyone ever seen "java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn" for expression (count {"k3" 467})?
09:55	echo-area	What could be the reason?
09:56	echo-area	It's Clojure 1.2
09:56	echo-area	Is that a known bug?
09:58	fliebel	echo-area: Are you sure it's that?
09:58	fliebel	I mean, if you enter that at the repl, it gives the same error?
09:58	echo-area	Yes, I'm 100% sure. I can't believe it.
09:58	jcromartie	,(count {"k3" 467})
09:58	clojurebot	1
09:59	mmarczyk	dnolen: hi! CLJS-241 looks extremely promising :-)
09:59	fliebel	,clojure-version
09:59	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 4, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
09:59	echo-area	I'm using storm.
09:59	vijaykiran	echo-area: I can't reproduce it ..
09:59	echo-area	Well, I can't reproduce it in the repl too.
09:59	jcromartie	echo-area: I think you're mistaken
09:59	echo-area	But I compiled a uberjar and it can't pass that.
09:59	echo-area	jcromartie: I wish I could have made any mistake.
10:00	fliebel	echo-area: What happens when your replace the count with prn ?
10:00	jcromartie	it's gotta be a loading issue or something else
10:00	echo-area	jcromartie: I've spent ~2 hours on this and finally tracked down to here.
10:00	jcromartie	echo-area: what is the full stack trace?
10:01	jcromartie	and if it is that code that's failing, then count is somehow scoped to an integer… (def count 1) (let [count …] …) etc. , but I wouldn't head down that path quite yet
10:03	echo-area	http://pastebin.com/9s0fPEJF
10:05	echo-area	You can see that the first failure comes from (println (count (keys {"k3" 467})))
10:06	echo-area	It's a literal map, but runs very strangely
10:08	echo-area	Hmm, putting that expr outside the definition of `add-keywords' won't result in an error
10:10	dmi3y	Hi, everyone. I just wrote a small Clojure app which uses clj-http and htmlunit. I was surprised that the standalone jar of it ended up weighting ~13M. Is there a way I can trim it down?
10:10	echo-area	Why, it looks that the problem is along with the destruction.
10:10	echo-area	If I don't use destruction but use (first ...) and (second ...), there won't be any error.
10:11	gf3	_ato: Ping?
10:12	kzar	With js/setTimeout in Clojurescript is it safe to recurse?
10:13	xeqi	echo-area: you're shadowing count in the destructoring
10:13	echo-area	Oh, why didn't I notice that. What a PIIIITTTTYYY... :'(
10:14	dakrone	dmi3y: if you aren't using any of the json stuff, you can exclude cheshire from clj-http and trim it down a little
10:14	echo-area	Forgot that Clojure is a Lisp-1....
10:15	dmi3y	dakrone: thanks
10:15	echo-area	xeqi: Thanks for pointing me that!
10:19	robertstuttaford	korma. have resource has-many resource-version. when selecting resource with resource-version, resource-version comes back as an empty vector. executing the dry-run sql manually correctly returns results for resource-version. what could i be doing wrong?
10:22	bubimir	How can I combine macros with type hints? For instance, why doesn't something like (defmacro get-first-byte [^bytes bs] `(aget ~bs 0)) help me avoid reflection?
10:23	nDuff	bubimir: you can put (with-meta) in your macro output
10:24	nDuff	bubimir: ...re: why what you first tried doesn't work, the reader applies metadata directly to the macro definition, which doesn't get propagated when the macro is expanded
10:24	nDuff	(if my own understanding is correct)
10:24	bubimir	Type hints are just metadata? (I'm new. :)
10:24	nDuff	bubimir: correct.
10:25	bubimir	Thanks! I'll look into that.
10:25	nDuff	bubimir: see also http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7754429/clojure-defmacro-loses-metadata
10:26	bubimir	Ahh, great! That helps lots.
10:31	robertstuttaford	does korma do any pluralisation of association names?
10:32	robertstuttaford	weird. if i stop telling the base model which fields to return, then the (with resource-version) starts working
10:33	robertstuttaford	ibdknox: ping
10:39	bubimir	Is "bytes" not a class name? I can use it as a hint (^bytes), but don't know how to use it with something like vary-meta. Clojure says "unable to resolve classname". When I ack for a (class <a byte array>), I get a strange "[B".
10:39	robertstuttaford	my korma issue: https://gist.github.com/2628135
10:40	clgv	bubimir: tag that "[B". thats java's strange naming^^
10:41	TimMc	&(.getCanonicalName (class (byte-array [])))
10:41	lazybot	⇒ "byte[]"
10:41	TimMc	&(.getName (class (byte-array [])))
10:41	lazybot	⇒ "[B"
10:42	bubimir	clgv and TimMc: Thanks! Using just "[B" seems to do the trick.
10:42	foxdonut	robertstuttaford: what if you have (fields :id :title :resource_version.version) ?
10:43	robertstuttaford	foxdonut: it complains that resource_version isn't in the table list for the query
10:43	robertstuttaford	rightly so resource has-MANY resource-version
10:43	pyninja	when I do (in-ns 'my.name.space), and then (use 'another.name.space), it says "java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: use in this context". what am I doing wrong?
10:44	clgv	pyninja: thats because you went in a non-existing namespace which then was created on the fly but no (refer-clojure) was executed in it
10:45	robertstuttaford	just updated the gist to show the dry-runs for each case
10:45	nDuff	pyninja: ...any particular reason for using (in-ns) rather than (ns) there?
10:46	echo-area	Bye folks!
10:46	djpowell	hmm - i can't do jira...
10:46	djpowell	how do you mark something 'ready to test'
10:46	robertstuttaford	foxdonut: i'm not going nuts, it should work the way i think it should, right?
10:46	foxdonut	robertstuttaford: what if you have (with resource_version ...) before (fields :id :title :resource_version.version) ?
10:47	pyninja	clgv: hm, but it should exist. it works fine if I do (use 'my.name.space) with the same namespace
10:47	clgv	pyninja: it exists after you did 'use since 'use is loading it ;)
10:47	pyninja	nDuff: i want to get inside an existing namespace, not declare a new one
10:47	robertstuttaford	foxdonut: that works. why?
10:47	kzar	dnolen: Is it safe to recurse with js/setTimeout? I wrote some code in a similar way to the example that you showed me but it slows down after a while
10:47	pyninja	clgv: no, if I start a new repl it still works
10:48	nDuff	pyninja: if you use (ns) with an existing namespace, it does just that.
10:48	clgv	pyninja: 'use loads namespaces 'in-ns does not
10:48	robertstuttaford	foxdonut: just figured it out, i think. :id wasn't in my field list before
10:48	pyninja	clgv: i declared the namespace in a file
10:48	pyninja	wait, what does in-ns do then?
10:48	foxdonut	robertstuttaford: I just started looking at korma last night, so I'm no expert. But, looking at the docs, I'm guessing that the (with ...) coming first tells korma to join, and then (fields :resource_version.version) works.
10:49	clgv	switch to that ns and create it if it does not exist, i.e. was not loaded
10:49	robertstuttaford	i think korma relies on me to ensure that the join columns are present in the fields lists
10:51	foxdonut	robertstuttaford: I'm guessing that the order matters.
10:51	pyninja	clgv, nDuff: ns doesn't seem to work for me in that way either: https://gist.github.com/44014b4285e8f5400970
10:52	clgv	pyninja: do a (require 'my.ns) and then (in-ns 'my-ns)
10:53	clgv	pyninja: a IDE can support you there ;)
10:53	pyninja	clgv: ah, now I see! thanks
10:54	clgv	pyninja: fyi use = require + refer
11:05	robertstuttaford	newbie question: https://gist.github.com/2628257
11:08	clgv	robertstuttaford: ##(update-in [:resource_version 0] :version {:resource_version [{:version 351}], :id 1, :title "Partition"})
11:08	lazybot	java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: nth not supported on this type: Keyword
11:08	clgv	oops
11:08	clgv	robertstuttaford: ##(update-in {:resource_version [{:version 351}], :id 1, :title "Partition"} [:resource_version 0] :version)
11:08	lazybot	⇒ {:title "Partition", :id 1, :resource_version [351]}
11:08	robertstuttaford	update-in, thank you!
11:08	clgv	ah not entirely.
11:09	clgv	##(update-in {:resource_version [{:version 351}], :id 1, :title "Partition"} [:resource_version] (comp :version first))
11:09	lazybot	⇒ {:title "Partition", :id 1, :resource_version 351}
11:10	robertstuttaford	thank you clgv
11:13	robertstuttaford	can i use update_in to remove an element entirely?
11:13	robertstuttaford	so in this case, i want to remove :id
11:13	S11001001	robertstuttaford: no, use dissoc
11:14	clgv	robertstuttaford: use dissoc or select-keys
11:14	robertstuttaford	gotcha
11:15	nDuff	Hmm.\
11:15	robertstuttaford	this is more of a style question. i have (map #(update-in …) (korma query)). i could just wrap this all with another (map #(dissoc :id …)
11:15	TimMc	robertstuttaford: You can combine update-in with dissoc.
11:15	robertstuttaford	i guess i could put both #() into a comp as the function that maps?
11:17	robertstuttaford	this works: (map (comp #(update-in % [:resource_version] (comp :version first)) #(dissoc % :id)) (…korma…))
11:18	S11001001	nDuff: ns is set during module loading, not execution
11:19	faust45	can anyone suggest mime http parse lib?
11:25	nDuff	Hmm. I have a module in which I'm setting a value to an atom; however, when a new module requires the old one, that atom appears to get re-def'd over
11:26	nDuff	(the resulting object has not just a different value [reinitialized to nil], but also a different memory location)
11:29	mmarczyk	nDuff: check if there's a :reload / :reload-all option on any of your requires and consider using defonce for the atom
11:40	nDuff	mmarczyk: no :reloads present, but using defonce does the Right Thing; thanks!
11:56	dnolen	lynaghk: ooh, is profile-cljs runnable?
11:57	kzar	cool my clojurescript drum machine is coming along
11:59	Borkdude	finally, solved….
12:06	ambrosebs	I'm trying to build my own version of clojure, but I can't seem to change the artifact name
12:06	ambrosebs	is there some convention I need to follow?
12:09	johnkpaul	is there an equivalent to javascript's arguments.callee in clojure?
12:09	johnkpaul	or something like recur but without being in the tail position
12:09	johnkpaul	I have an let bound function that I am trying to make call itself
12:09	brainproxy	dnolen: is the idea with string-print in clojurescript that it prints a string with a newline automatically appended, or should it print the string as-is (i.e. no newline on the end)?
12:10	brainproxy	dnolen: the reasons I ask is that in nodejs.cljs that ships with clojurescript, string-print is pointing to node's sys.puts
12:10	brainproxy	but sys.puts is long since deprecated
12:11	brainproxy	and i'm wondering whether to point string-print instead to console.log (which appends a newline) or process.stdout.write (which doesn't append a newline)
12:11	foxdonut	johnkpaul: do you mean something like (fn foo [] (foo)) ?
12:11	dnolen	brainproxy: don't know that bit very well - but feel free to submit a ticket that suggests a fix.
12:11	dnolen	brainproxy: as just let us know which lib to call.
12:11	johnkpaul	foxdonut: yes
12:12	johnkpaul	I keep getting unable to resolve symbol: foo in this context
12:12	dnolen	johnkpaul: in Clojure or ClojureScript?
12:12	johnkpaul	clojure
12:12	foxdonut	johnkpaul: paste code in gist?
12:12	johnkpaul	:) decided that I need to learn clojure first
12:13	dnolen	johnkpaul: nice! :)
12:13	johnkpaul	sure foxdonut, one second
12:13	johnkpaul	foxdonut: https://gist.github.com/9a675e94ef72b901210b
12:13	johnkpaul	working through 4clojure.com
12:13	foxdonut	johnkpaul: try (fn fib [x] ...) instead
12:13	ambrosebs	nvm, I fixed my problem building clojure
12:14	johnkpaul	ah, great, thanks foxdonut!
12:14	johnkpaul	found a different problem, but one that makes sense
12:14	johnkpaul	damn needing all of those base cases
12:14	foxdonut	johnkpaul: you're welcome
12:27	lynaghk	dnolen: yep.
12:27	lynaghk	it's pretty janky right now, and there aren't any visualizations
12:27	dnolen	lynaghk: hmm having trouble getting it to work, when I try to open public/index.html I get a bunch of error about missing JS files.
12:27	lynaghk	also if you want to reset the timings, you'll have to open up the js console and remove the localstoage key yourself
12:27	lynaghk	did you run ./make.sh
12:28	dnolen	lynaghk: oops no
12:28	lynaghk	also your webserver needs to follow symlinks (I use the "serve" rubygem)
12:28	lynaghk	dnolen: readme, bro! =P
12:29	dnolen	lynaghk: yeah the ./make.sh wasn't highlighted as code so I missed it while scanning :)
12:30	dnolen	lynaghk: k, I get a list of nils :)
12:31	lynaghk	dnolen: in the viewer? Hmm.
12:32	dnolen	lynaghk: oh I'm getting a microbenchmarks/seqs.js missing error in run.html
12:34	lynaghk	dnolen: that's through a symlink: how are you running the page?
12:34	dnolen	lynaghk: should that have been generated for me?
12:34	dnolen	lynaghk: just open public/index.html
12:34	dnolen	lynaghk: I guess I should open it via local web server?
12:35	lynaghk	I just tried it via file:// and it worked fine
12:35	lynaghk	let me clone and start from scratch.
12:37	dnolen	lynaghk: hmm I don't have a microbenchmarks folder, what creates that/
12:37	dnolen	?
12:39	brainproxy	dnolen: figured it out w/ ref to the cljs repl.. string-print is for printing strings w/o newline appended, println appends \n
12:39	lynaghk	ahh, forgot to check that in.
12:40	brainproxy	I'll submit an issue once I see how it works out w/ how I've set it up in ncljs's nodejs.js
12:40	brainproxy	*nodejs.cljs
12:40	lynaghk	dnolen: fix pushed, sorry about that. I have a bad habit of adding "pubilc/" to .gitignore and then adding a bunch of symlinks into public.
12:40	dnolen	brainproxy: cool, thx
12:42	dnolen	lynaghk: cool! got it working, how do I reset the data? localStorage.clear()?
12:43	lynaghk	dnolen: awesome! you can reset with: localStorage.removeItem("timings")
12:43	lynaghk	dnolen: I'll add a button to the viewer later and then some datavis stuff. Going hiking today, so it'll be closer to Wednesday
12:43	dnolen	lynaghk: so I see a list of nils + count up + map inc
12:44	lynaghk	the nils should be timings. hmm.
12:44	lynaghk	what's in localStorage["timings"]?
12:45	dnolen	lynaghk: to a bit more clear, I see a list of nils at the very top of page
12:45	dnolen	then map inc (6 5 5)
12:46	lynaghk	oh, so timings are working fine. Are you seeing the source code?
12:46	dnolen	er count up (6 5 5)
12:46	dnolen	lynaghk: yes
12:47	dnolen	lynaghk: in anycase, neat thanks for starting this. Will be very useful.
12:48	lynaghk	dnolen: oh, I see those nils too. Looks like something is throwing in empty objects
12:49	lynaghk	I'll figure it out and fixup. This isn't ready yet anyway; github giving away my secrets. =P
12:50	lynaghk	dnolen: yeah, ideally there'd be more infrastructure and persistence so we can actually compare different cljs compiler or cljs library revisions.
12:51	dnolen	lynaghk: haha
12:51	dnolen	lynaghk: yes I'm keen for a community contributed set of benchmarks is all
12:52	dnolen	lynaghk: a lot of what we do right now is ad hoc stuff at the command line
12:52	lynaghk	dnolen: well feel free to throw some more in and send me a pull request. The format is pretty general
12:52	clojurebot	Alles klar
12:53	lynaghk	dnolen: I was planning on having an optional :tags kwarg to the profile cmd so that once we have a ton of different microbenchmarks it'd be easy to search
12:54	lynaghk	gotta go hiking, catch you later dnolen.
12:54	dnolen	lynaghk: later
12:55	Raynes	"MUST. GO. HIKING."
13:12	jasonkolb	hey everyone... pretty new to Clojure and I'm struggling with the syntax for something I'm trying to port from Java, hoping someone can give me a pointer
13:13	jasonkolb	(let [result (@id->result id)]
13:13	jasonkolb	(cleanup id)
13:13	jasonkolb	(log-debug "Returning DRPC result for " function " " args " at " (System/currentTimeMillis))
13:13	jasonkolb	(if (instance? DRPCExecutionException result)
13:13	jasonkolb	(throw result)
13:13	jasonkolb	(let [strResult
13:13	jasonkolb	(.toString
13:13	jasonkolb	(.decode( result )
13:13	jasonkolb	(.newDecoder (defaultCharset Charset)
13:13	jasonkolb	)
13:13	jasonkolb	)
13:13	jasonkolb	]
13:13	jasonkolb	strResult
13:13	jasonkolb	)
13:13	clgv	jasonkolb: first, use a paste next time. ~paste
13:14	clgv	~paste
13:14	clojurebot	paste is http://refheap.com
13:14	jasonkolb	oops, sorry about that
13:14	clgv	secondly, you should state your problem ;)
13:15	mrakana	I don't understand definline. How exactly does it differ from a regular macro? When should I use it? If I want to create an alias for a function, is using definline better than just doing (def alias some-func)?
13:16	mrakana	Using alias instead of some-func after (def alias some-func) seems to slow down things considerably.
13:16	clgv	mrakana: it's expanded if you call it directly but passed as a function if used as a parameter
13:16	foxdonut	jasonkolb: can you paste the Java code you are trying to port?
13:17	jasonkolb	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2630#L-1
13:17	jasonkolb	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2630#L-2
13:17	jasonkolb	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2630#L-3
13:17	jasonkolb	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2630#L-4
13:17	jasonkolb	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2630#L-5
13:17	jasonkolb	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2630#L-6
13:17	jasonkolb	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2630#L-7
13:17	jasonkolb	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2630#L-8
13:17	jasonkolb	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2630#L-9
13:17	jasonkolb	https://www.refheap.com/paste/2630#L-10
13:17	jasonkolb	(let [strResult
13:17	jasonkolb	(.toString
13:17	jasonkolb	(.decode( result )
13:17	jasonkolb	(.newDecoder (defaultCharset Charset)
13:17	jasonkolb	)
13:17	jasonkolb	)
13:17	foxdonut	are you serious?
13:17	S11001001	er...
13:17	jasonkolb	was trying to do the right thing there with the paste from refheap
13:17	antares_	jasonkolb: just paste a URL, not the content
13:17	foxdonut	one link is enough :)
13:18	S11001001	str not tostring
13:18	jasonkolb	gotcha... my bad
13:18	foxdonut	jasonkolb: please paste your original Java code in refheap and put one link here
13:19	jasonkolb	ok, java code is at https://www.refheap.com/paste/2631
13:20	mrakana	clgv: I see. So it's something between a function and a macro. It also allows regular ^type hinting unlike a macro.
13:20	muhoo	question about dynamic bindings: i do a (binding [foo :bar] (somefunc)). that somefunc calls down a stack that eventually has stuff that does (:use [bar.baz :only [foo]]) in it. which foo gets used down in there? the one i bound or the original one?
13:21	muhoo	i should say: the one bound with binding or the one use'd in the ns decl?
13:22	S11001001	muhoo: bindings don't exist in the ns mappings, so the latter
13:22	S11001001	that is, you use a var, not a particular binding of it
13:22	muhoo	damn.
13:23	cmcbride	jasonkolb: to call a static method in clojure you do (defaultCharset/Charset)
13:23	muhoo	ok, thanks. i'll have to find another strategy then.
13:23	foxdonut	jasonkolb: perhaps (-> (.newDecoder (Charset/defaultCharset)) (.decode result) str)
13:24	foxdonut	jasonkolb: or perhaps (-> (Charset/defaultCharset) (.newDecoder) (.decode result) str)
13:24	jasonkolb	thanks foxdonut, I'll give that a try
13:24	antares_	jasonkolb: https://www.refheap.com/paste/2633
13:26	foxdonut	antares_: cool, didn't know you could use .something bare
13:27	foxdonut	antares_: but why doesn't .something work with map?
13:27	foxdonut	is it a macro-related thing?
13:28	antares_	foxdonut: it does if there is a method you are calling on IPersistentMap
13:28	antares_	.something is a Java method call
13:28	foxdonut	antares_: I mean why does (-> 5 .toString) work but (map .toString [4 2]) doesn't?
13:28	jasonkolb	that worked beautifully thanks foxdonut & antares_
13:29	antares_	foxdonut: because .toString is not a function, it's a special form
13:29	foxdonut	antares_: oic, and -> takes forms, while map takes a function, right..
13:29	foxdonut	jasonkolb: you're welcome
13:30	antares_	foxdonut: -> is a macro, it takes anything that can be evaluated at compile time
13:30	antares_	while map takes a function
13:31	foxdonut	antares_: I understand now.. thanks for the explanation
13:56	technomancy	so Leiningen honors the $CLASSPATH environment variable, but I have only ever heard of people using this by accident
13:56	technomancy	would anyone be horrified if we just dropped it entirely?
13:56	technomancy	you can still customize lein's classpath with pomegranate and the .lein-classpath file
13:57	joegallo	i would not be horrified, i think $CLASSPATH is basically a horrible idea.
13:58	joegallo	but, then again, that probably means i'm not the target audience for $CLASSPATH ;)
13:58	technomancy	motion passes
13:58	Borkdude	technomancy: would this seem logical to you? is the profiles.clj not ok maybe? https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/clojuredev-users/-SnAC7g-vpI
14:00	fliebel	technomancy: I used it once, when i did some naughty things with dependencies that where not in maven.
14:00	technomancy	Borkdude: the swank-clojure version is wrong, but that's the only issue
14:01	technomancy	oh shiiiiiiit--I got the new groups interface forced on me =(
14:01	Borkdude	technomancy: wrong as in?
14:01	technomancy	Borkdude: that version only works with lein1
14:02	technomancy	you want lein-swank 1.4.2
14:02	Borkdude	apparently the eclipse leiningen plugin is based on lein2
14:03	technomancy	fliebel: another good reason to get rid of it! =)
14:04	fliebel	technomancy: Hah, only if you find a better alternative to RxTx.
14:05	technomancy	pretty sure that's been converted since samaaron switched to lein?
14:07	fliebel	technomancy: What do you mean? Sam did package a version of the thing, but with only half of the native deps.
14:08	technomancy	I wasn't following it too closely; could have missed some of the details
14:08	Borkdude	hmm, some other plugin must ruin leiningen/eclipse, when I change it to {:user {:plugins []}} it works
14:08	technomancy	anyway, preview4 will have an equivalent of mvn install:install-file
14:08	Borkdude	not if I change swank-clojure to 1.4.2 though
14:09	technomancy	not swank-clojure, lein-swank
14:10	Borkdude	ah fuck yes
14:11	gtrak	does there exist a good library for file operations?
14:12	gtrak	something as handy as python's os.walk?
14:13	technomancy	no idea what that does, but it sounds somewhat like file-seq
14:13	technomancy	(doc file-seq)
14:13	technomancy	,(doc file-seq)
14:13	ieure	Yes.
14:13	clojurebot	"([dir]); A tree seq on java.io.Files"
14:13	clojurebot	"([dir]); A tree seq on java.io.Files"
14:13	technomancy	oops
14:13	gtrak	ah, nice
14:15	ibdknox	gtrak: checkout fs by raynes
14:15	ibdknox	gtrak: https://github.com/Raynes/fs
14:15	ibdknox	for more features
14:15	gtrak	ah, neat
14:16	Borkdude	ok, with lein-swank 1.4.2 it now works correctly, so some other thing must have caused the error then
14:17	gtrak	ibdknox, that's very useful, thanks
14:17	uvtc	Updated my "brief beginner's guide" to use Lein 2 and Clojure 1.4.
14:17	uvtc	http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/clojure/brief-beginners-guide/
14:17	XPherior	Can anyone point me towards an understanding on how to use lazy-seq without blowing the stack? Doesn't seem like you can recur from inside of that function, obviously.
14:18	amalloy	XPherior: mostly it Just Works
14:19	XPherior	amalloy: I must be doing something horribly wrong. Let me show you an example of what I tried, one sec.
14:19	amalloy	$google stackoverflow dbyrne prime sieve clojure
14:19	lazybot	[recursion - Recursive function causing a stack overflow - Stack ...] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2946764/recursive-function-causing-a-stack-overflow
14:19	amalloy	is a good answer about the most common cause of problems
14:21	XPherior	https://gist.github.com/2629447
14:21	Borkdude	lein-noir 1.2.0 also seems to break it
14:21	XPherior	I've seen that question by the way, amalloy
14:21	amalloy	okay. your gist will never blow the stack
14:22	foxdonut	In a new Clojure project with an SQL database, what do people use to create the database schema? I've tried clojure.data.jdbc and lobos, both work but neither seems ideal. Would be nice to define the schema in code and have a safe "create schema only if it doesn't already exist" function to call on startup.
14:22	XPherior	amalloy: Wait. I swear it did last night. I mean, that was a quick rewrite.. But that was basically it.
14:23	foxdonut	Or should I just write the DDL in SQL, execute it on the database, and be done with it?
14:23	technomancy	foxdonut: I recommend writing it using SQL
14:23	TimMc	technomancy: How do you run the SQL?
14:23	xeqi	foxdonut: thats still an open area for clojure
14:23	technomancy	TimMc: finding a link; hang on
14:23	XPherior	amalloy: I guess I'm wrong. I'm not sure why it wasn't working last night. Thanks anyhow
14:23	amalloy	&(letfn [(inf-nums-from [n] "A sequence of n to infinity." (lazy-seq (cons n (inf-nums-from (inc n)))))] (nth (inf-nums-from 0) 500000))
14:23	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: in this context
14:23	TimMc	I don't want to be in the business of SQL-parsing.
14:24	technomancy	foxdonut: I'm not sure how polished this is, but this seems like the right approach: https://github.com/weavejester/ragtime
14:24	amalloy	&(letfn [(inf-nums-from [n] (lazy-seq (cons n (inf-nums-from (inc n)))))] (nth (inf-nums-from 0) 500000))
14:24	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: in this context
14:24	amalloy	wat. some copy-paste issue, i guess
14:24	XPherior	Yeah
14:24	XPherior	&(letfn [(inf-nums-from [n] (lazy-seq (cons n (inf-nums-from (inc n)))))] (nth (inf-nums-from 0) 500000))
14:24	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: � in this context
14:25	XPherior	Hmmkay, I'm stumped.
14:25	amalloy	there's probably a non-breaking space character in there somewhere
14:26	muhoo	foxdonut: try korma?
14:26	solussd	using lein-marginalia, when I run 'lein marg' I get: an exception: Caused by: java.lang.IllegalAccessError: escape-html does not exist, every time. any ideas? The trace isn't very helpful- nothing in my code at least. :)
14:26	ieure	Has anyone gotten clj-logging-config / tools.logging to, like, actually work?
14:26	foxdonut	technomancy: thanks for the pointers, I'll have a closer look at Ragtime. I guess also just running the SQL on the database remains a decent solution.
14:27	ieure	Because no matter how I configure it, I don't seem to get anything but a NOPLogger.
14:27	foxdonut	muhoo: my understanding is korma doesn't support DDL
14:27	technomancy	foxdonut: most existing solutions try to do too much
14:28	ieure	e.x. (use 'clj-logging-config.log4j) (set-loggers! :root {:level :debug :out :console}) (log/debug "test")
14:28	ieure	-> I get nothing
14:28	technomancy	I don't think trying to pretend you can seamlessly switch migration code between different SQL implementations is ever going to work
14:29	TimMc	technomancy: This still doesn't answer the question of how to take a SQL file full of DDL statements and shove it into a DB.
14:30	technomancy	TimMc: did you see the ragtime link?
14:30	foxdonut	technomancy: I agree. It also depends on what you are doing, e.g. maintaining an application in production vs. distributing a standalone example that "just works on startup", etc.
14:30	TimMc	technomancy: I've seen it in the past...
14:31	duck1123	solussd: the recent version of hiccup renamed escape-html to h
14:31	TimMc	technomancy: Are you recommending that I split up my SQL schema file into a series of ragtime migrations? :-/
14:31	duck1123	escape-html is now in hiccup.util IIRC
14:31	solussd	duck1123: thanks!
14:32	technomancy	TimMc: honestly I haven't used a relational database in years, so I can't say whether ragtime covers all the bases. but it's on the right track compared to something like activerecord
14:32	XPherior	One more question. I saw Rich's talk about Simplicity at the Rails Conference.. I just don't understand why ORM's are complex. Maybe I've been doing it too long that I'm ignoring something
14:33	solussd	duck1123: now I wonder why marginalia isn't depending on the correct version of hiccup. :/
14:33	TimMc	technomancy: The specific issue I'm dealing with is that JDBC does not seem to have a way to take a SQL script and run it.
14:33	TimMc	It can only take one DDL command at a time, as far as I've seen.
14:33	technomancy	TimMc: oh, I see. so the problem is that of delimiting commands?
14:33	TimMc	right
14:34	TimMc	And every suggestion I've seen on the web so far is: Parse it yourself.
14:34	TimMc	EW.
14:34	foxdonut	technomancy, TimMc: FWIW what we use now in a production Java app, is we have a series of plain SQL files and a tool that runs them in order. So we can modify the schema by adding a new file and the tool figures out which ones haven't been run yet. There is value in that IMHO.
14:34	amalloy	someone asked about that a month or two ago. i think the suggestion was "split-at ; lololol hope you don't have any semicolons in your data"
14:35	foxdonut	TimMc: and yes the tool allows for multiple statements within a single file.
14:35	duck1123	I seem to remember hearing that lein was going to get something akin to mvn's dependency:tree. Is that a plugin I'm missing, or is it best to just use mvn for now?
14:35	Borkdude	uvtc: tnx for your link, will read it later
14:35	uvtc	Borkdude, sure, y/w
14:35	uvtc	ibdknox, thanks for the tip about Raynes/fs. Looks handy.
14:36	technomancy	amalloy: couldn't you just make up a delimiter?
14:36	amalloy	duck1123: lein2 deps :tree
14:36	uvtc	Though, I'm curious to know how I'm even able to use it...
14:36	uvtc	I'm using lein 2, and have specified that one of my dependencies is org.clojure/clojure "1.4.0".
14:36	uvtc	But fs appears to depend upon Clojure 1.3.0.
14:36	Borkdude	uvtc: gouda… is a city from Holland, but your name doesn't seem Dutch to me
14:36	gtrak	if you specify a dep in your project.clj, it'll override a transitive dep
14:36	gtrak	uvtc, ^
14:36	amalloy	uvtc: dependency versions are basically mild preferences :P
14:37	uvtc	gtrak, "transitive dep"?
14:37	gtrak	yes, in maven-jargon, a dependency pulled in by a dependency
14:38	amalloy	technomancy: you could, although probably none exists that can't technically be a part of the SQL statement
14:38	foxdonut	technomancy, amalloy, TimMc: if it's just executing several SQL statements in a single SQL file with JDBC, one option is Spring: https://www.refheap.com/paste/2634
14:38	uvtc	gtrak, Ah. I see. Thanks. And thanks, amalloy. I'd have guessed that lein would pull in Clojure 1.3.0 into my local repository, but then maybe it wouldn't be used.
14:39	technomancy	amalloy: !
14:39	gtrak	speaking of which, why does lein need a lib/ folder at all? maven doesn't. I guess it's convenient though.
14:39	technomancy	gtrak: lein2 doesn't
14:39	amalloy	TimMc: what about having a migrations directory, with each file a separate statement?
14:39	gtrak	ah, neat
14:39	amalloy	heh, that's the one i was thinking of too, technomancy
14:40	technomancy	gtrak: it was initially there for compatibility with existing tooling which has since thankfully been abandoned
14:40	Borkdude	amalloy: lein2 reps :tree only shows a tree, but doesn't pull in reps?
14:40	technomancy	amalloy: big fan of the ol' page break
14:40	Borkdude	deps
14:40	Borkdude	fucking spelling correction, haven't found how I can turn it off by default
14:40	foxdonut	technomancy: anyway, perhaps Ragtime will be a good fit for what I need. I'll try it out. Thanks again.
14:40	amalloy	iunno
14:40	technomancy	Borkdude: it can't show the tree without walking the deps, which fetches them
14:40	uvtc	Borkdude, gouda, as in, the cheese. Also, it kinda' sounds like italian "gooda' docs, capiche?" (oh man)
14:41	Borkdude	uvtc: Gouda is the city where the cheese is from, some 50 km from here
14:41	gtrak	technomancy, deleting code is one of my favorite things, I understand :-)
14:49	TimMc	foxdonut: Is XML really needed to make JDBC do that?
14:54	foxdonut	TimMc: no, you could certainly do it in code instead. I was just offering the possibility of using JDBC to execute multiple SQL statements within a single file -- because I've had that frustration before and a home-grown solution with strange delimiters etc. isn't very nice.
14:56	achin	Am I doing something wrong, or does the repl in lein 2.0.0-preview3 only give you the top frame of a stacktrace?
14:56	nDuff	If I call (keys some-map) and (vals some-map), is it guaranteed that these will be serialized in the same order for all Clojure's map implementations?
14:57	technomancy	nDuff: it's guaranteed the order will be the same on the same map object
14:57	technomancy	it's not guaranteed across serialization boundaries iirc
14:57	nDuff	nod, thanks
14:57	ivan	achin: that's how the normal REPL works too, no? (pst) prints the stack trace
14:58	achin	ivan: Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I thought it printed out more than the last frame.
15:02	TimMc	achin: (pst) is the way to go, but (.printStackTrace *e) will give you the whole (ugly) thing.
15:02	achin	TimMc, ivan: Thanks.
15:05	amalloy	nDuff: it's guaranteed, and so you can rely upon it, but in my experience code that relies on it can generally be rewritten in a nicer way
15:08	TimMc	foxdonut: Cool, I'll check that out!
15:10	halarnold2000	&(+ 1 2)
15:10	lazybot	⇒ 3
15:10	ivan	how do I load my own deps.js file in a ClojureScript REPL?
15:10	ivan	or perhaps before I start the REPL
15:15	foxdonut	TimMc: FWIW, the docs are here: http://static.springsource.org/spring/docs/current/spring-framework-reference/html/jdbc.html#d0e25689 and the Java API is here: http://static.springsource.org/spring/docs/current/javadoc-api/org/springframework/jdbc/datasource/init/package-summary.html
15:15	foxdonut	(it's Java so the links are really verbose ;)
15:17	creese	How do I do multi-line docstrings?
15:17	Raynes	Hit return.
15:18	uvtc	creese, You can have newlines in your docstrings.
15:23	S11001001	uvtc: C
15:24	uvtc	S11001001, C?
15:24	S11001001	uvtc: for further evidence, eval ("hello, " "world") in python
15:25	Wild_Cat	uvtc: yeah, in Python, string literals are collapsed together, meaning you can write your strings as multiline by using parens.
15:26	Wild_Cat	("hello" "world") == "helloworld"
15:26	S11001001	just like C
15:26	uvtc	Oh, right. :) "like C"
15:26	muhoo	has someone already written something that'll turn a flat list like {:foo.bar.baz 1, foo.bar.baz.quux 2} into a tree like {:foo {:bar {:baz 1 {:quux 2}}}} ?
15:26	Wild_Cat	and thanks to implicit line continuations, you can use parens to spread your string over multiple lines
15:27	Wild_Cat	however, note that ("hello " <newline> "world") == "hello world", not "hello \nworld"
15:29	uvtc	Wild_Cat, S11001001 : still though, as soon as I saw that Clojure strings could span multiple lines, I thought, "hey, wait a minute, why can't I do that in Python?"
15:29	Wild_Cat	uvtc: agreed, it is a weird choice to SyntaxError, especially when the parser supports triple-quoted strings.
15:30	Wild_Cat	OTOH, one thing I sorely miss in Clojure: Python's raw strings.
15:31	Wild_Cat	(it had me, in fact, running back to Python screaming last time I attempted to use Clojure, because it turned out there were a lot of literal backslashes in the stuff I had to do)
15:31	creese	I want to refer to java methods in documentation. I know in Ruby its class#method. What is best practice for java?
15:32	TimMc	&(str #"\backslash")
15:32	lazybot	⇒ "\\backslash"
15:32	TimMc	Wild_Cat: ^ :-P
15:32	Wild_Cat	TimMc: isn't that a regex?
15:33	TimMc	Yeah, but then I extract the pattern string from it.
15:33	Wild_Cat	(or is that a new Clojure 1.4 thing I've missed?)
15:33	Bronsa	neat
15:33	TimMc	It's a dirty trick.
15:33	Wild_Cat	&(str #"\hello(")
15:33	lazybot	java.util.regex.PatternSyntaxException: Illegal/unsupported escape sequence near index 1\hello( ^
15:33	TimMc	I don't guarantee that it works on all inputs...
15:33	Wild_Cat	TimMc: yeah, that's what I thought ;)
15:33	Wild_Cat	it only works when your string is actually a valid regex
15:34	TimMc	&(str #"\Q\h\E")
15:34	lazybot	⇒ "\\Q\\h\\E"
15:35	uvtc	creese, y'know, I'm not sure I've ever seen any other notation than the one you mention. It's been a while since I've looked at the PickAxe. You use the dot for instance methods, right?
15:35	creese	I want to know what it is for java. Ruby, I know.
15:36	creese	Ruby is # for instance :: for class, I think, but neither is Ruby syntax.
15:36	uvtc	creese, Whoops. right right.
15:36	raek	I think . is more common in Java-land, but the javadoc syntax uses #, IIRC
15:37	duck1123	creese: does this help? http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/tools/windows/javadoc.html#see
15:37	Wild_Cat	TimMc: okay, so it works when your string is sort-of something that looks like a valid regex? Or do Java regexes auto-escape backslashes that aren't followed by a correct escaping char?
15:38	creese	duck1123: thanks
15:39	amalloy	muhoo: that is an impossible desire to fulfill, because baz cannot be both an integer and a map
15:42	TimMc	Wild_Cat: \Q and \E pairs allow raw stuff inside Java Patterns.
15:42	TimMc	Anyway, yes -- we should have raw strings.
15:42	Wild_Cat	&(str #"\Qhello(\E")
15:42	lazybot	⇒ "\\Qhello(\\E"
15:42	Wild_Cat	I see.
15:42	Wild_Cat	still, yeah. Thanks.
15:43	TimMc	&(java.util.regex.Pattern/quote "foo") ;; IIRC
15:43	lazybot	⇒ "\\Qfoo\\E"
15:43	jwr7	Is there a Clojure-1.3/1.4 compatible continuation of clojure.contrib.lazy-xml? clojure.data.xml has a different interface and does not parse some of my files.
15:47	ivan	dnolen_: I've loaded my own deps.js into the rhino REPL via rhino/-eval, but when I do something like (ns mystuff (:require [cw.env :as env])) that form returns `nil`; then doing (env/someFunc) results in org.mozilla.javascript.EcmaError: ReferenceError: "cw" is not defined.
15:47	ivan	how should I debug that?
15:49	dnolen_	ivan: as far as I know, an ns form doesn't actually trigger loading of anything.
15:49	muhoo	amalloy: or something like that {:baz [1 {:quux 2}]}, etc
15:50	ivan	dnolen_: thanks, I guess have more work to do
15:50	jwr7	I have to say, the migration from Clojure 1.2+monolithic contrib to anything newer is a major disaster. I still haven't finished the work on our codebase. I hope nothing like this ever happens again.
15:50	dnolen_	ivan: I could be wrong about that of course. But I think ns forms get converted into goog.provide and goog.require
15:51	canweriotnow	has anyone else had issues with `lein repl` ignoring project.clj and not loading the project into the repl session?
15:51	dnolen_	ivan: in the browser those will work
15:51	ivan	okay
15:51	amalloy	muhoo: you also complect string-parsing with map-building; either task on its own is simple (and easy), and the two can be composed without any real trouble
15:51	dnolen_	ivan: but normally we are generating a single file, so goog.provide and goog.require get eliminated.
15:51	muhoo	jwr7: indeed, the problem with batteries included, is when the batteries go stale and start leaking acid all over the place
15:51	dnolen_	ivan: that said, the lack of a require and load at the REPL kinda stinks. Would be nice if someone worked on that.
15:52	muhoo	amalloy: ahhm, so splitting the strings into vectors does indeed get me more than halfway there, thanks
15:52	ivan	dnolen_: thanks, now I know it's missing
15:53	canweriotnow	I guess it might be a versioning thing? It used to load the project just fine, and now it doesn't.
15:53	muhoo	then a little assoc-in and i'm probably good
15:53	jwr7	muhoo: Well, I'm fine with change, but not too much at once. Changing Clojure and splitting monolithic contrib into modules would be fine, but some libraries were effectively abandoned and replaced with ones with a completely different API, functionality and problems.
15:54	amalloy	&((fn [paths] (reduce (fn [m [path value]] (assoc-in m `(~@path ::self) value)) {} paths)) '([(:foo :bar :baz) 1], [(:foo :bar :baz :quux) 2]))
15:54	lazybot	⇒ {:foo {:bar {:baz {:quux {:clojure.core/self 2}, :clojure.core/self 1}}}}
15:54	amalloy	muhoo: this is the other half, more or less
15:58	muhoo	ooh, macro quoting, nice
15:58	TimMc	jwr7: The maintenance of the old libs was an illusion.
16:00	beffbernard	I'm dynamically building a string with the intention of evaluating it later.. but I'm not having any luck.. "userevents.thrift.TList$_Fields/values" where TList is a generated Thrift class and _Fields is a java Enum
16:01	jwr7	TimMc: yes, I realize that -- and I think overall this was a good decision. But I'm not happy about the fact that a) it was done together with the switch to 1.3 and b) some libs (lazy-xml in my case) were replaced with something different. As I write this I'm trying to find out why data.xml fails when parsing some XML documents...
16:02	beffbernard	So my desired output is I want to call the values method on _Fields
16:02	muhoo	when it comes to xml, i've had good luck with necessary-evil
16:02	jwr7	muhoo: I like the name already
16:03	muhoo	jwr7: https://github.com/brehaut/necessary-evil
16:04	jwr7	muhoo: ...but it's not what I need. I need a lazy XML parser, capable of dealing with huge data files. Ah well. I'll stop complaining now and go back to yak shaving.
16:04	muhoo	granted, i was dealing with RPC's, not files.
16:05	muhoo	have fun. i'll take a break from dealing with openid :-) fun for everyone.
16:12	uvtc	muhoo, I like your comment about battery acid leaking out. Might have to quote you sometime. :)
16:14	uvtc	Oh, just missed him.
16:14	uvtc	$mail muhoo I like your comment about battery acid leaking out. Might have to quote you sometime. :)
16:14	lazybot	Message saved.
16:20	Raynes	I get chils when people use that feature.
16:20	Raynes	chills even
16:21	uvtc	Raynes, I noted its use here: http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/clojure/brief-beginners-guide/getting-help.html .
16:22	uvtc	If you've got any other choice lazybot tips, I'm all ears. :)
16:23	amalloy	is it worth noting how to coerce lazybot into giving a snarky answer??
16:23	lazybot	amalloy: What are you, crazy? Of course not!
16:23	gtrak	is there a way to make emacs not hang when I do something stupid? like printing a file-seq of thousands of files?
16:23	uvtc	lazybot, tell me your secrets!
16:23	uvtc	lazybot is a tough nut to crack.
16:24	Raynes	uvtc: It also has a timer.
16:24	uvtc	A timer you say?
16:24	Raynes	$timer 0 0 5 Hi, uvtc
16:24	lazybot	Timer added.
16:25	lazybot	Hi, uvtc
16:25	uvtc	Egads!
16:25	jwr7	gtrak: not that I know of. I once waited 2 days.
16:25	Raynes	That doesn't always work properly, unfortunately.
16:25	Raynes	It sometimes gets times all wonky and amalloy is too lazy to fix it.
16:25	uvtc	Raynes, what are the first two integers for?
16:25	gtrak	jwr7, that's absurd :-)
16:25	Raynes	hours, days, seconds.
16:25	jwr7	gtrak: it's all relative and depends on the value of your unsaved changes :-)
16:25	amalloy	...days
16:26	Raynes	Bahahahaha
16:26	Raynes	Minutes.
16:26	Raynes	Sorry, preoccupied.
16:26	gtrak	jwr7, maybe we need to make a slime-proxy
16:26	Raynes	amalloy: Maybe that's why the times are screwed up, minutes are days.
16:26	raek	Raynes: been using java.util.Date recently :-)
16:26	gtrak	swank-proxy, rather
16:27	jwr7	Unfortunately, these days most editors suck badly. Just try opening a 500MB XML file -- both Emacs and vim will take ages. With my 16 cores and 24GB of RAM I can't really see why.
16:28	gtrak	algorithms
16:28	felideon	jwr7: emacs is nice enough to warn you!
16:28	felideon	(dunno about vim)
16:28	jwr7	It recently took me a couple of minutes just to remove a trailing comma in a broken JSON file in vim. The file was 100MB or so. That's just sad.
16:28	jwr7	felideon: yeah, unless you dump something in the repl :-/
16:29	felideon	ah right
16:29	felideon	C-c C-c a few times, q q q, pray.
16:33	amalloy	refusing to edit a 500MB text file is probably a protection for your sanity. nothing good can come of doing that
16:33	babilen	Is there a way in which I can use maps as keys in maps? (and get their values back? (e.g. (get {:a 1} {{:a 1} 0}))) Or do I have to use something else as key and "somehow" look up that identifier for every map that I want to use as key?
16:37	amalloy	that works fine. you're passing the args to get in the wrong order
16:40	babilen	amalloy: Wonderful (doh!) -- Guess I take a break now :)
16:43	S11001001	unfortunately clojure maps only work with strings, keywords, and typeglob references, of course
16:43	S11001001	and integers < 28 bits
16:44	michaelr525	hello
16:45	ivan	S11001001: would be funny if people didn't have such low expectations
16:47	amalloy	S11001001: is that the state of things in CL or something? i don't recognize the language you're referring to
16:48	TimMc	amalloy: What's wrong with editing giant files?
16:49	ivan	some hex editors are good at editing giant files, they can even insert
16:49	S11001001	amalloy: perl5 hashes only support strings; CL hashtables support anything supported by eq, eql, equal, or equalp
16:49	TimMc	ivan: Oooh, good call.
16:50	gtrak	is teco good at large files?
16:50	S11001001	and php silly arrays support strings and numbers, and I think objects (compared and hashed by stringification, because that's what php would do)
16:51	Wild_Cat	S11001001: don't be so sure. PHP doesn't compare strings by stringification. :p
16:51	Wild_Cat	(if they sort of look like numbers)
16:53	S11001001	I'm glad I don't remember the exact details
16:53	S11001001	php arrays are the worst things
16:53	jonaskoelker	how the ... do you guys parse stuff?
16:53	jonaskoelker	[sorry if I'm butting in]
16:54	Wild_Cat	PHP everything appears to have been carefully designed so as to be the worst possible design and implementation of the task at hand.
16:54	jonaskoelker	Wild_Cat: tell me more about the train wreck I've managed to avoid, please :)
16:55	Wild_Cat	jonaskoelker: eevee did it better than I can ever hope to: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
16:55	ivan	gtrak: don't know, but HxD (Windows) is
16:55	ivan	haven't looked at others
16:56	jonaskoelker	S11001001: so in pythonese, str(myob) == repr(myob) or else (myob == myob) == False ?
16:57	S11001001	jonaskoelker: no, I mean at the silly-array level; basic equality is a whole other mess
16:57	Wild_Cat	jonaskoelker: but the string thing comes down to this: if you're trying to compare two strings together and they look like numbers, PHP will parse them as numbers and compare the results, even if the conversion overflows. Meaning that if you compare 2 strings that are 2 huge, but different, numbers (bigger than can fit in a ... I think it's a 32-bit int), they can compare as equal.
16:58	Wild_Cat	...all of this without a single error message, warning or anything else.
16:58	jonaskoelker	:O
16:58	jonaskoelker	teh fuque...
16:59	LauJensen	lol. I can't seem to find any corner of the internet where PHP shortcomings aren't discussed
17:00	TimMc	These are the stories the tribe tells its young in order to warn them from making the same mistakes.
17:02	jonaskoelker	"... and, reading between the lines, non-programs ..." :-)
17:02	jonaskoelker	I guess those don't not-crash
17:03	brehaut	im sure someone has a fast templating library that is halfway between enlive and hiccup, but i cant remember what its called
17:03	Wild_Cat	I suppose the point here was that it was initially a templating language, not the application programming language people perverted it as.
17:03	Raynes	brehaut: tinsel
17:04	brehaut	aha thanks
17:17	dnolen_	benchmark illustrating the benefit of the property + bit and implementation of satisfies? http://jsperf.com/direct-vs-chain/4
17:22	TimMc	Wild_Cat: And that is why my PL prof at NEU impressed upon us the importance of realizing when one is writing a nascent programming language.
17:24	ForSpareParts	Hey, how do you guys debug?
17:24	jonaskoelker	loudly, swearingly
17:24	ForSpareParts	I'm working in IDEA with La Clojure right now, and it won't stop on breakpoints...
17:25	ForSpareParts	janskoelker: (well, of course)
17:25	jonaskoelker	=)
17:25	jonaskoelker	I have yet to write anything not printf-debuggable
17:25	jlongster	dnolen_: vaguely related, if you ever want to see how well your js is JITed in Firefox, here's a cool addon: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/jit-inspector/
17:26	emezeske	ForSpareParts, jonaskoelker: Yeah, println is my debug tool of choice
17:26	TimMc	(doto ... (println))
17:27	TimMc	&(+ (doto 5 (println)) 6)
17:27	lazybot	⇒ 5 11
17:27	gtrak	how would I get the substring of a string after the point where a regex matches?
17:27	gtrak	getting the offset of the match would do the trick
17:28	gtrak	ah, I see there's a lastIndexOf method on String
17:28	jonaskoelker	just about any character sequence is a method on String =)
17:30	ForSpareParts	emezeske: hm. I used to do print debugging, but I liked using breakpoints so much more...
17:31	emezeske	ForSpareParts: of course, to each his own
17:32	technomancy	I think for breakpoints you need either swank or counterclockwise
17:32	dnolen_	jlongster: not related - but do you ever run the FF jsshell directly?
17:32	technomancy	or maybe debug-repl works in other contexts?
17:34	jlongster	dnolen_: no, I use node for command line js, though I wish spidermonkey was used more!
17:34	dnolen_	mmarczyk: ping
17:35	dnolen_	jlongster: asking because I'm convinced the jsshell they distribute with the nightlies is not actually the latest js engine build.
17:35	muhoo	uvtc: heh, enjoy.
17:36	jlongster	dnolen_: how come? I'm not sure what its used for in the whole toolchain.
17:36	muhoo	[A
17:37	michaelr525	I have an uberjar jar which runs for an hour or a few and then stops for unknown reason without printing any exception...
17:38	michaelr525	Sounds familiar to anyone?
17:39	technomancy	michaelr525: it runs for an hour when generating the uberjar or running via java -jar?
17:39	michaelr525	java -jar
17:40	technomancy	oh, no idea then; sorry
17:40	michaelr525	:)
17:40	michaelr525	will have to fill it with printlns i guess\
17:41	nickmbailey	o893
17:42	nickmbailey	oops, wrong channel
17:45	jonaskoelker	what do you guys use for generating parsers?
17:52	dnolen_	jlongster: it's crazy slow
17:52	dnolen_	jlongster: the js engine actually in the nightly seems fast
17:54	jlongster	dnolen_: hm, just looking at the docs for building the shell, and it has the --disable-optimize flag? It might be missing lots of optimizations, possibly even JIT?
17:55	wkmanire	Howdy folks.
17:55	dnolen_	jlongster: :P
17:55	dnolen_	jlongster: that doesn't make much sense to me.
17:56	jlongster	dnolen_: that's a very cursory glance :)
17:56	jlongster	if you're really interested, I can poke some of the people who work on it
17:56	dnolen_	jlongster: that would be sweet!
17:57	jlongster	dnolen_: ok, I'll let you know what they say
17:57	dnolen_	jlongster: we do a lot of sanity checking / perf testing at the command line
18:01	jlongster	dnolen_: did you build jsshell yourself?
18:02	dnolen_	jlongster: I did not, though I could do that.
18:02	jlongster	just curious, so I give them some context
18:02	jlongster	so you checked out a built version from Mozilla's hg repo?
18:02	dnolen_	jlongster: I just thought the prebuilt shells might be simpler since that's what Brendan directed me towards.
18:02	jlongster	yeah, makes sense
18:02	dnolen_	jlongster: the nightlies directory has prebuilt binaries I just grabbed a zip.
18:03	jlongster	dnolen_: do you have the URL handy so that I can show them exactly which one your using?
18:03	jlongster	I'm not too familiar with it
18:04	dnolen_	jlongster: got it off ftp from here, ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk
18:11	jlongster	dnolen_: are you running it with the flags "-m -n -a" ?
18:11	jlongster	just relaying messages at this point, I don't have it handy to see what those are
18:11	jlongster	oh, -m enables JaegarMonkey and -n enables type inference
18:12	dnolen_	jlongster: excellent that did the trick very helpful!
18:12	jlongster	woot!
18:13	dnolen_	jlongster: this is great, thanks much.
18:13	gtrak	hmm, this is unexpected, I guess because I'm used to java. how do I get a keySeq (the result from calling keys on a map) into a set efficiently, so I can perform an intersection on it?
18:13	jlongster	np! glad I could help. They said it should become the default at some point
18:17	gtrak	I guess into #{} might be alright
18:19	gtrak	actually that's freaky-fast
18:22	gtrak	intersecting 9k string keys from 2 maps takes 28 ms
18:22	gtrak	the result is 9k, rather
18:22	tacoman	what do you guys use for auto-completion of Clojure in Emacs?
18:22	ForSpareParts	Would you guys mind looking at my attempt at a binary search tree?
18:22	ForSpareParts	http://pastebin.com/iu0s6XrY
18:23	ForSpareParts	adding crashes, it says it can't cast a long as an IFn
18:23	ForSpareParts	and I have no idea why
18:24	emezeske	ForSpareParts: Your if statement tries to call val as a function
18:24	ForSpareParts	OH
18:24	ForSpareParts	Oh, fuck, I see it now, thank you.
18:25	emezeske	ForSpareParts: very common mistake coming from an infix background.
18:25	ForSpareParts	Thanks, that's a confidence booster : )
18:27	emezeske	:)
18:27	ForSpareParts	OK, so I fixed that -- now I've got "ArityException Wrong number of args (0) passed to: PersistentHashMap"
18:27	clojurebot	atacontrol cap ad0 \| grep serial \| awk '{print $3}'
18:28	ForSpareParts	I don't know where to look exactly -- it doesn't give me a line number. But I would have expected that to be caused by something like (:keyword), right?
18:29	emezeske	ForSpareParts: That's the error you'd see if you tried to e.g. ({:foo 42}) I think.
18:30	emezeske	ForSpareParts: You might want to look for extra parens around things (hint)
18:31	ForSpareParts	Ah, ok.
18:33	TimMc	The wonderful thing about abstractions is that there are so many to choose from: https://www.refheap.com/paste/2640
18:33	TimMc	Iterator not being Iterable is one of the more baffling things I have encountered in Java.
18:33	amalloy	TimMc: iterables are supposed to be iterable multiple times
18:34	amalloy	iterators are mutable, use-once
18:34	ForSpareParts	emezeske: So, I've narrowed it down to something that happens after I recurse, which should mean that the problem is with (make-bst val)
18:34	ForSpareParts	but I can't get rid of those parens, I need them to make it a function call, right?
18:34	technomancy	amalloy: so really the fact that iterators exist in the first place is the WTF =)
18:34	TimMc	amalloy: I suppose in that case I should direct my bafflement at for loops not supporting Iterator
18:35	amalloy	ForSpareParts: too many parens
18:35	amalloy	the one on line 11 is extraneous
18:36	ForSpareParts	Huh, ok. Thanks.
18:36	amalloy	(aside: is something still "extraneous" if it's breaking things? or does that word imply that it isn't causing a problem?)
18:36	ForSpareParts	Why is that? I thought that the entire function body had to be in parens?
18:37	amalloy	parens always mean "call this as a function/macro"
18:37	amalloy	the function body tends to have parens around it, because you want to call something as a function
18:37	amalloy	but you can't just put more in
18:37	antares_	dakrone: hey
18:37	ForSpareParts	I'd say your use of "extraneous" was spot on. It means something is unneeded or extra, but it could be causing a problem as well.
18:37	ForSpareParts	Also, that makes sense. Thank you.
18:39	ynniv	is there any sample code using noir or compojure and websockets?
18:40	weavejester	ynniv: Compojure is for HTTP routes, rather than websockets.
18:41	kovasb_	ynniv: https://github.com/andrewvc/noir-async
18:41	ynniv	I have a compojure app that I would like to add a websocket route to
18:41	weavejester	ynniv: I believe there's some code in Aleph for web sockets
18:43	ynniv	yes, the code that I have seen ends up using aleph
18:46	ynniv	I've probably gotten lost in the abstractions. Can I use my existing compojure routes with aleph?
18:53	weavejester	ynniv: Hm… Maybe… Compojure is a routing libary built around Ring, but it might also work with Aleph, since it looks like the only difference is in the way the response is returned.
18:54	ynniv	sanity check: (noir (compojure (ring (jetty))))?
18:54	ynniv	and it looks like aleph is ring-like
18:54	ynniv	so (noir-async (compojure (aleph (netty))))?
18:54	weavejester	Yes. But websockets are not HTTP, and therefor not Ring.
18:54	ynniv	correct
18:54	weavejester	You effectively need Ring for your HTTP stuff, and Aleph for your websocket stuff.
18:55	weavejester	Or noir-async might handle that for you.
18:55	ynniv	in the best case, I would have a server that fulfilled HTTP requests with ring and WebSockets with something else
18:55	ibdknox	aleph + compojure or noir works just fine
18:55	weavejester	It looks like there are wrap-ring-handler and wrap-aleph-handler for converting back and forth
18:56	weavejester	So you can convert between the two protocols depending on the route.
18:56	ynniv	yes. but ring/jetty cannot handle websockets
18:56	ynniv	so I need to swap that part with something else
18:56	ibdknox	ring is not tied to jetty
18:56	ibdknox	aleph = netty
18:57	ynniv	yes, but can ring wrap netty and do ws?
18:57	ynniv	from what I can tell, aleph is ring applied to netty and ws
18:59	weavejester	ynniv: It looks like there is middleware to convert back and forth between the Aleph style and Ring.
18:59	weavejester	https://github.com/ztellman/aleph/wiki/HTTP
19:00	weavejester	Let me see if I can come up with a small example....
19:01	jonaskoelker	have anyone done any parsing in clojure?
19:02	brehaut	yes, but any advice i have is now out of date
19:02	jonaskoelker	:\|
19:02	jonaskoelker	know of any good parser generators?
19:03	ynniv	i last used https://github.com/joshua-choi/fnparse
19:03	ynniv	the output was kind of slow, but that might have been an artifact of a poor grammar
19:04	brehaut	last i looked fnparse was not compatible with clj 1.3+
19:04	antares_	jonaskoelker: I am afraid all clojure-specific parser generators are a bit out of date. I used Ragel and ANTLR to produce a Java parser that produces Clojure data structures, it was pretty straightforward.
19:04	weavejester	Hm, actually an example might mean I'll need to try a few things out first...
19:04	brehaut	theres parsley
19:04	ynniv	brehaut: that wouldn't surprise me (clj 1.3)
19:05	jonaskoelker	brehaut: I can confirm that incompatibility
19:05	jonaskoelker	antares_: can you share the code?
19:06	ynniv	weavejester: My compojure routes are ultimately a ring handler, correct? Perhaps it is as simple as wrapping those routes and adding my WebSocket route.
19:06	antares_	jonaskoelker: here is one: https://github.com/michaelklishin/crawlista/blob/master/src/rl/clojurewerkz/crawlista/robots/Parser.rl
19:07	weavejester	ynniv: Effectively yes. I just don't know if you can use GET etc. with Aleph or if you need to create a handler function manually.
19:07	ynniv	ok. It's a place to start
19:07	antares_	jonaskoelker: I wouldn't call it a great example of a Ragel parser but it demonstrates how you can easily build Clojure data structures in a Java parser. I prefer ANTLR to Ragel because it has ANTLWorks (a small IDE)
19:09	jonaskoelker	antares_: yeah, I think I'll go with ANTLR, though the documentation seems sparse -.- ; but thanks, I'll study the building of clojure data in java
19:10	ynniv	Unrelated, the velocity of the clojure community is amazing. I'm still wary of the JVM (exceptions, tail calls, bloat), but it's difficult to ignore the energy of the community.
19:12	jonaskoelker	I find it a non-hassle to use loop/recur, fwiw
19:12	jonaskoelker	how's exceptions and bloat a problem in your eyes?
19:12	jonaskoelker	bloat = huge memory consumption?
19:13	ynniv	yes. I can run racket on a 64MB embedded ARM
19:13	jonaskoelker	racket?
19:13	ynniv	and every time I see a stack trace I die a little
19:13	ynniv	mzscheme
19:13	jonaskoelker	ah
19:13	jonaskoelker	oh yeah
19:13	ynniv	but stack traces are often the only useful part of an exception
19:13	jonaskoelker	java.foo.indirectMethodOne -> java.foo.indirectMethodTwo -> java.bar.deepNestingThree -> ...
19:13	ynniv	you really need handlers to do something useful when odd things happen
19:14	jonaskoelker	~= callbacks?
19:14	clojurebot	No entiendo
19:14	technomancy	leiningen runs on a beaglebox =)
19:14	jonaskoelker	(I'm new/intermediate to lisp; is `handler' a ... keywordish?)
19:15	ynniv	how much RAM?
19:15	clj_guest_002	so javascript has it's document model; is there anyway in java to create GUIs with something like that
19:15	antares_	jonaskoelker: I happen to have 2 books from ANTLR author, one of them on ANTLR :)
19:15	clj_guest_002	rather than stacking guilayout on top of guilayouts ?
19:15	technomancy	ynniv: not sure. 64MB might be enough for leiningen, but not if it needs to share with the OS =)
19:15	jonaskoelker	antares_: lucky you. Can you fax it? =)
19:15	ynniv	well, there wasn't a whole lot of room for racket either :)
19:16	ynniv	but it compiled and ran on a soft-float system
19:16	technomancy	ynniv: but UTF-16 suuuuucks; it's true
19:16	antares_	jonaskoelker: I can give you a link to it :) http://pragprog.com/book/tpantlr/the-definitive-antlr-reference
19:16	technomancy	it's better than not having the language specify an encoding (cough; ruby), but it's bad.
19:17	ynniv	jonaskoelker: try http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html
19:17	jonaskoelker	antares_: but it's like (iterate dec account-balance) :-(
19:18	ynniv	instead of being a backstop for an unwinding stack, they let you change state and resume
19:18	antares_	jonaskoelker: `handler` is OK to use but if you want a local name to use for a handler fn, f (for function) is quite common
19:18	antares_	jonaskoelker: there are alternative ways to acquire it, lets put it that way. I do not encourage them but it's ultimately up to you :)
19:21	jonaskoelker	hm; I should probably read up on CL's condition system. I hear good things about it
19:23	ynniv	it's one of the few things missing from clojure
19:23	technomancy	ynniv: it's been implemented
19:23	jonaskoelker	that and a parser generator =)
19:23	technomancy	but nobody uses it
19:24	ynniv	technomancy: do you have more info?
19:24	jonaskoelker	neocons??
19:24	lazybot	jonaskoelker: Definitely not.
19:24	jonaskoelker	-.-
19:25	technomancy	ynniv: it's called error-kit
19:25	foxdonut	weavejester: was looking at Ragtime earlier. Quick question: although all the pieces are already there, there doesn't seem to be a single point of entry to run a series of migrations but checking the database to see which ones have already been executed. Am I missing something?
19:25	foxdonut	technomancy: you were right, Ragtime is a nice option.
19:25	technomancy	good! =)
19:26	weavejester	foxdonut: I believe that's the "apply-new" strategy.
19:27	jonaskoelker	(into 'bed /me)
19:27	weavejester	foxdonut: So: (migrate-all migrations strategy/apply-new)
19:28	foxdonut	weavejester: as my 5-year-old daughter would say, "sweeeet!" Thank you!
19:28	weavejester	foxdonut: Take a look at: https://github.com/weavejester/ragtime/blob/master/ragtime.core/src/ragtime/strategy.clj
19:29	weavejester	foxdonut: That lists the three different ways migrations can be applied. If you can think of any more, let me know :)
19:29	foxdonut	weavejester: excellent. I'm pretty sure apply-new is what I'm looking for. thanks again--much appreciated.
19:32	foxdonut	weavejester: the other part I am having trouble with, but this is likely my not knowing clojure syntax for protocols.. how do I do (def db (ragtime.sql.database.SqlDatabase. {:classname .. :subprotocol ..})) instead of each parameter as separate args?
19:32	foxdonut	also I can't seem to be able to require or use SqlDatabase to use (SqlDatabase. ...), only able to use fully qualified name
19:33	weavejester	foxdonut: If you're using Clojure 1.3 or above, records create two functions: ->SqlDatabase and map->SqlDatabase
19:34	weavejester	foxdonut: You'd want (map->SqlDatabase {:classname … :subprotocol …})
19:35	weavejester	foxdonut: Only the ->Record or map->Record functions are created with the namespace. If you want to use the record as a class, e.g. using Record., then you need to import it. But ->Record or map->Record should probably be preferred.
19:35	ynniv	technomancy: I think that I saw error-kit before. Not sure if I forgot about it because it doesn't get much use, or because most of my exceptions come out of Java libs.
19:35	foxdonut	weavejester: nice, let me try it out..
19:40	foxdonut	weavejester: the protocol syntax works, but the apply-new strategy doesn't seem to work as I expect.. meaning if I call it on every webapp startup, first time it runs the migrations, the second time I expect it not to try to run them again.. but it runs them again and fails with "table already exists"
19:43	foxdonut	weavejester: perhaps an error on my part.. here's what I'm trying: https://www.refheap.com/paste/2643
19:45	weavejester	foxdonut: Hm...
19:45	weavejester	foxdonut: What does the content of the ragtime_migrations table look like?
19:46	foxdonut	weavejester: create-bookmark-table\|1336433877972
19:47	weavejester	foxdonut: What happens if you call (applied-migrations sql-db) ?
19:48	symbole	Does Clojure have a set of unit tests for its conrrency abstractions?
19:48	foxdonut	weavejester: bookmarksite.server=> (applied-migrations sql-db) => (nil)
19:50	weavejester	foxdonut: Try calling (remember-migration migration-create-bookmark-table)
19:51	weavejester	foxdonut: Ragtime's a work in progress, so it's not as smooth as it could be.
19:51	foxdonut	weavejester: no problem, I understand, and I appreciate your help
19:51	foxdonut	weavejester: that last returns {"create-bookmark-table" {:id "create-bookmark-table", :up #<config$create_bookmark_table bookmarksite.database.config$create_bookmark_table@1909385>, :down #<config$drop_bookmark_table bookmarksite.database.config$drop_bookmark_table@12ca580>}}
19:52	weavejester	Oh, I meant, try calling it before running (create-schema-if-necessary)
19:52	foxdonut	oic, ok let me try
19:52	weavejester	foxdonut: It registers the function as a known migration
19:54	foxdonut	weavejester: indeed that fixes the problem
19:54	weavejester	foxdonut: I had some plans for a defmigration that would make things easier, adding the :id and remember-migration in automatically.
19:55	foxdonut	weavejester: nice.. any reason why migrate-all wouldn't imply to remember each migration?
19:56	weavejester	foxdonut: It does, but I think the order is a little wrong.
19:57	foxdonut	weavejester: hmm, I think I see what you mean..
19:59	weavejester	foxdonut: It calls remember-migration each time migrate is called, but I think migrate-all should register all the migrations before it starts to apply them.
19:59	weavejester	foxdonut: Like: (doseq [m migrations] (remember-migration m))
20:00	foxdonut	weavejester: right, otherwise the strategy decides whether to run migrate, before the migration is registered
20:01	weavejester	foxdonut: Exactly. It's a bug, I think.
20:01	foxdonut	weavejester: would you like me to try the change, test it, send you a pull request?
20:01	weavejester	foxdonut: Please do
20:02	foxdonut	weavejester: ok, will do. again, thanks for your help, I appreciate it!
20:02	technomancy	weavejester: sorry I dropped the ball on that whole ragtime thing
20:02	weavejester	foxdonut: No problem! Sorry about the rough state of ragtime. I haven't yet gotten onto migrations in my app, so I've yet to work on it recently!
20:02	technomancy	might end up back on clojars soon; will see if we can give it a spin there
20:03	weavejester	technomancy: Hum? I haven't looked at it recently either, so no need to apologise!
20:03	dabd	what is the functional idiom for taking numbers from a list [1 2 7 10 5 4] while the sum of those elements is inferior to a given value? I'm trying to use take-while but i cannot figure how to keep the sum without using atom
20:04	amalloy	&(doc reductions)
20:04	lazybot	⇒ "([f coll] [f init coll]); Returns a lazy seq of the intermediate values of the reduction (as per reduce) of coll by f, starting with init."
20:04	hiredman	inferior? you mean less than?
20:04	foxdonut	weavejester: as technomancy said earlier today, the other migration libs seem to try to do too much, and I agree, yours is the cleanest one
20:06	foxdonut	weavejester: gotta run now to put the kids to bed-- I'll be in touch.
20:06	weavejester	foxdonut: Glad you like it :)
20:07	amalloy	&(map second (rest (take-while (fn [[sum num]] (< sum 21)) (reductions (fn [[sum num] x] [(+ sum x) x]) [0 0] [1 2 7 10 5 4])))) ;; dabd?
20:07	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 7 10)
20:07	foxdonut	best part of clojure! all these libraries that are devoid of cruft.
20:08	emezeske	amalloy: I'm so glad that you keep reminding me about reductions... There are so many places where it makes for simple solutions
20:09	dabd	amalloy: thanks. reductions seems useful
20:29	rhc	do let bodies have an implict do?
20:29	nDuff	rhc: yes
20:33	rhc	nDuff: thanks
20:34	rhc	these "Evaluation aborted" errors are driving me nuts, can't figure out where the crash is occuring
20:34	muhoo	hehe, i find i'm using (vector ) and (hash-map) instead of {} and [] so that i don't end up matching up crap at the end of functions that look like javascript,i.e. ]}])])
20:34	Frozenlock	I have a problem here... I just moved from Win7 to Ubuntu, and (.getHostAddress (java.net.InetAddress/getLocalHost)) doesn't work in the same way. I was expecting to get my machine IP (the one given by my router), but instead got 127.0.0.1
20:34	muhoo	)))) is cleeeener
20:35	emezeske	muhoo: you're not using a paredit mode of some sort?
20:35	TimMc	muhoo: Terrible.
20:38	muhoo	what drives me nuts about paredit is no freedom of choice. if i want to fix or edit stuff, it doesn't let me
20:38	Frozenlock	Any advice on how to obtain my machine IP from clojure?
20:39	muhoo	or if i screw up and put a ( in the wrong place, it puts a ) and won't let me delete it.
20:39	beffbernard	muhoo: C-u del
20:40	muhoo	hm, must try, thanks
20:40	amalloy	my problem with cars is if i accidentally turn them upside down they're too heavy to flip over, so i just walk everywhere
20:40	beffbernard	C-q ( to insert paren
20:40	emezeske	muhoo: I dunno about emacs, but I use paredit in vim and it's very easy to tell it "I know what the hell I'm doing, so let me"
20:41	amalloy	it's not really quite the right analogy, but my point is paredit actually gives you faster/better ways to fix your problems, so the fact that it prevents (or makes difficult) the slow ways is not really a sticking point
20:42	beffbernard	amalloy: After paredit, I can never see C-k in the same light again
20:42	beffbernard	:*(
20:42	amalloy	eh?
20:43	beffbernard	I miss C-k in any other mode
20:43	wei_	hi, is there a way to change the agent state in its error-handler? I want to store the error in the agent state without calling send or send-off, which won't work since the agent is already failed
20:43	amalloy	beffbernard: C-M-k
20:43	amalloy	works in most modes
20:43	beffbernard	:O
20:45	beffbernard	amalloy: not quite the same
20:45	amalloy	no
20:45	beffbernard	almost like M-d in java-mode
20:45	amalloy	but it gets you the balanced pairs, which is the important part IME
20:45	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
20:46	amalloy	i rarely really care about C-k except as a lazier way to type C-M-k a few times
20:47	muhoo	i tend to do C-M-space, then C-w
20:47	beffbernard	I used to use C-k constantly… it's like a shotgun approach.. it was almost faster if I accidently deleted a few things I didn't want and retype them
20:47	muhoo	on mine, C-k is kill line, i use that in just about every mode
20:48	gfredericks	amalloy: glad I saw that. I just learned about C-M-k
20:48	muhoo	or "D" if i happen to be in vim.
20:49	beffbernard	so who else is trying these commands?
20:49	beffbernard	these are gold
20:50	beffbernard	muhoo +1 for C-M-space
20:50	amalloy	beffbernard: hit it a few more times to highlight more sexps
20:53	mebaran151	anybody know a good wsdl web services api for Clojure?
20:54	beffbernard	yeah I noticed that
20:54	beffbernard	good stuff
20:54	muhoo	C-M-space C-x C-x, in particular
20:55	muhoo	"where the hell does this form end???"
20:55	amalloy	i dunno, i just use C-M-f
20:55	amalloy	mucking with point and mark for that seems like wasted effort
20:57	beffbernard	Typing C-M all the time can't be too healthy
20:57	amalloy	surely you have caps-lock mapped to ctl, though. it's not really that bad as long as you're not moving your pinky way down there
20:58	muhoo	technomancy: my daughter and her friends are obsessed with moustaches for some reason. so i printed this out for her: http://bace.s3.amazonaws.com/moustache-obsession.jpg
20:59	beffbernard	Yes, I do. it's the thumb stretch for meta that's annoying me.
20:59	beffbernard	Also mac keyboards have meta in a real awkward spot
21:00	muhoo	beffbernard: getcha one of these then: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Space-cadet.jpg
21:00	muhoo	even has a "like" and "unlike" key for using facebook
21:01	gfredericks	greek? top?
21:02	gfredericks	oh greek. I see.
21:02	beffbernard	holy crap, that's old
21:02	gfredericks	oh a macro key for clojure
21:02	amalloy	oh, yeah. on the rare occasions i use a mac i swap meta/cmd
21:02	beffbernard	haha waht's a rub out?
21:03	beffbernard	muhoo: ^
21:03	amalloy	beffbernard: delete/backspace. the terminology was still in flux back then
21:04	beffbernard	fancy
21:04	amalloy	(and actually so was the technology. some non-erasable media, like punched cards, you would write a "rub out" after the character you wanted to erase
21:05	beffbernard	immutable if you will
21:05	Bretzky	typematrix is the beset imo
21:06	beffbernard	amalloy: that's pretty interesting; I would not have know that otherwise
21:07	amalloy	all hearsay, of course; i'm not old enough to have lived through those days
21:11	creese	Having an issue with a jar. Main takes a number as an argument. Works fine form the REPL, but when I try to run the uberjar, I get
21:11	creese	ja
21:12	creese	java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number (presumably because on the command line the number is now text)
21:12	beffbernard	,(doc read-string)
21:12	clojurebot	"([s]); Reads one object from the string s"
21:13	creese	so I need to assume its a string? will it still work from the repl or do I need to deploy two versions now?
21:13	beffbernard	I'm assuming you are calling your main method right?
21:14	beffbernard	If so, the args will be strings
21:14	creese	why does it work from the repl without read-string then?
21:15	beffbernard	you're passing an int in the repl
21:17	brainproxy	anyone here know if it's possible to specify the JIT type (i.e. client or server) when firing up the JVM from c++ with JNI_CreateJavaVM?
21:18	brainproxy	the code I have to do that does accept options for the vm, but barfs when I try passing -server or -client as an option... having trouble hunting down the answer
21:25	muhoo	i think i'm seeing the benefit of using this nosql stuff. instead of the real core of the app being in sql, i'm writing it in clojure instead
21:26	muhoo	if i used an sql back-end, i'd end up writing most of the business end of it in sql.
21:33	emezeske	muhoo: I don't think there's any reason you couldn't do that with sql
21:33	emezeske	muhoo: AFAIK, the nosql benefits are mostly performance/scalability related
21:41	muhoo	that, and also the db's are schemaless
21:42	emezeske	Well, you could always just create a key/value table in a sql database and throw blobs of data in the value column
21:42	emezeske	Not that I recommend that, of course :)
21:42	muhoo	i could do that, and i've seen that (like how android uses sqlite), but old habits die hard ;-)
21:43	muhoo	this has really stretched my brain, it's been very difficult. but i'm seeing some benefit now.
21:43	emezeske	I was just pointing out that nosql is (in my mind) more for performance characteristics than being easier to program
21:43	muhoo	true
21:44	emezeske	Also, it has some big drawbacks if you happen to be dealing with data that is, in fact, relational
21:44	technomancy	muhoo: that's hilarious; love it
21:44	muhoo	technomancy: you're welcome :-)
21:44	muhoo	actually, thank you for that great graphic
21:44	muhoo	did you draw it?
21:44	technomancy	my brother-in-law made it
21:44	muhoo	he's good.
21:45	technomancy	he does game scene art; hoping to move into concept art
21:46	technomancy	also did the Pindah logo: https://github.com/mirah/pindah
21:47	muhoo	nice, alien basketball
22:11	Frozenlock	I've made a function to get my IP on Ubuntu (normal InetAddress/getLocalHost doesn't work on this OS. Well it works, but not as I was expecting). Any suggestions? It seems really big for such a trivial task: http://pastebin.com/JpSR5SN3
22:13	jweiss	anyone ever have lein run really slowly, and get a thread dump showing it's stuck at leiningen.util.file$delete_file_recursively.doInvoke? seems to be recursively deleting files, but my hard drive activity is pretty much zero. cpu at 100% lein 1.7.1
22:14	jweiss	i have had it do this for 30+ seconds, but now it's been several minutes, my project is not that big, <100 files including source and libs.
22:39	technomancy	jweiss: that sounds like a bug we had in 1.7.0, but it should be fixed in 1.7.1
22:40	technomancy	do you have a lot of .class files?
22:41	jweiss	technomancy: i have 1381. i don't know if that's a lot, it includes all the deps' classes
22:42	technomancy	kind of a lot, yeah =\
22:42	technomancy	a bug in 1.7.0 caused there to be a GC forced in between deleting each file
22:42	jweiss	technomancy: huh, i ran lein upgrade earlier, and saw it download 1.7.1, but i still have 1.7.0
22:42	technomancy	ah... odd
22:42	jweiss	let me try that again :)
22:43	jweiss	oh no wait, that was on my laptop. sorry, bad memory on my part :)
22:44	technomancy	cool
22:44	jweiss	works better now, thanks technomancy
22:47	technomancy	great
22:49	jweiss	is 1300 classes really a lot? considering every function in every lib that gets loaded (both anonymous and named) has a class, that doesn't seem like a lot at all.
22:51	tomoj	that's the slow clean bug?
22:52	tomoj	(missed the question)
22:52	jweiss	tomoj: yep
22:52	jweiss	now compiling seems fairly slow
22:53	jweiss	takes about 45 seconds to recreate those 1300 classes, seems like javac would be much faster, but i probably can't compare javac to the clojure compiler :)
22:54	jweiss	what makes me suspicious that the compiling is not going as fast as it could, is the 5% cpu utilization.
22:55	jweiss	it seems to be all disk activity, but there's no way the disk should take 45 seconds to write 6.5mb of class files.
23:05	echo-area	Does anyone here use aleph (https://github.com/ztellman/aleph)? The compilation of code using it is _very_ slow. Am I doing something wrong?
23:09	echo-area	And the java compiling process uses more than 200 MB memory
23:25	tomoj	I've noticed slowdowns from aleph too
23:26	tomoj	no clue why
23:28	echo-area	I guess something is causing the java process using very large memory usage
23:28	echo-area	and that slows down the compilation
23:57	felideon	what are the rules of hyphen motion in clojure, with regards to ? and predicate functions
23:58	felideon	long-predicate-name?
23:58	felideon	or long-predicate-name-?