#clojure – 2012-05-04

2012-05-04

00:05	muhoo	turning things into clojure maps is such a joy
00:06	muhoo	i just did a bunch of data import from excel csv's, and with clojure-csv and a little bit of code it went really well.
00:07	muhoo	https://refheap.com/paste/2540
00:08	brehaut	couchdb replication is magical
00:08	mdeboard	muhoo: That's cheating imo :P You didn't paste your parse-csv function, where all the cooking is
00:09	muhoo	mdeboard: it's in clojure-csv
00:10	mdeboard	I turned on paredit for the first time in months since this screencast is using it, took about 3 minutes before I remembered why I don't like it.
00:10	muhoo	mdeboard: https://github.com/davidsantiago/clojure-csv
00:10	m0smith	hi
00:10	mdeboard	hi
00:10	LuminousMonkey	mdeboard: You don't? I love paredit.
00:10	m0smith	I am trying to move to 1.4
00:10	LuminousMonkey	Hello
00:10	m0smith	I am getting an error "Too many arguments to def"
00:10	mdeboard	LuminousMonkey: Well, what do I need to do to change ["foo"] to ("foo") ? I can't delete those brackets :(
00:11	muhoo	m0smith: def or defn? :-)
00:11	m0smith	(def ^:dynamic hibernate-session-factory "" (atom nil))
00:11	m0smith	def
00:11	LuminousMonkey	mdeboard: I do a alt-( before the first [
00:11	m0smith	muhoo: Did something change with the dynamics again?
00:11	LuminousMonkey	mdeboard: Then Esc-up on the first "
00:11	muhoo	&(doc def)
00:11	amalloy	mdeboard: you want M-r
00:11	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! def is bad!
00:12	muhoo	##(doc def)
00:12	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! def is bad!
00:12	mdeboard	Oh, thanks amalloy
00:12	LuminousMonkey	amalloy: I was about to say there might be a better way. :)
00:12	amalloy	that's probably what M-up does, but who wants to leave the home row ever?
00:12	mdeboard	I freak when my backspace stpos working.
00:12	muhoo	m0smith: it doesn't like the docstring?
00:12	amalloy	mdeboard: automatic sliding doors don't let you push them open, but you don't need to so it's fine
00:13	LuminousMonkey	I hate it, when I leave the homerow, that was my reason with sticking to vim, but, er, to lazy to find out another way.
00:13	m0smith	def is bad?
00:13	muhoo	m0smith: in a bot, yes
00:13	LuminousMonkey	Bad def, naughty def.
00:13	muhoo	iirc the bot runs clojail ?
00:14	muhoo	mos def
00:15	mdeboard	amalloy: Oh, they let me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nb0BogGIv0&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL199543E4A9F91CBC
00:16	amalloy	that's not even the door, man. you couldn't find one where someone goes through a door?
00:16	mdeboard	yeah but they all have annoying music
00:20	mattrepl	is there a reason that set! shouldn't work on an Integer field marked as volatile-mutable in a deftype? it's clojure 1.3 and I'm using ^{:volatile-mutable true} theField in the [fields] portion of the deftype form
00:23	hiredman	mattrepl how are you calling set! ? and on what version of clojure?
00:23	mattrepl	hiredman: (set! theField newVal) within a method implementation in the deftype
00:23	amalloy	mattrepl: as long as you're doing it from within the context of the deftype body it should work
00:27	amalloy	you can see an example at https://github.com/flatland/ordered/blob/develop/src/ordered/set.clj, where (change! field f & args) expands to (set! field (f field ~@args))
00:28	mattrepl	aha, it's set! within a locking macro that fails
00:29	amalloy	mmmmm, that should work too
00:29	amalloy	unless you try to do it from two different threads
00:30	m0smith	muhoo: yep, no more docstrings in defs (weird)
00:30	mattrepl	compilation won't work if set! is in a locking macro, but works fine when just outside
00:30	amalloy	m0smith: are you sure you aren't accidentally downgrading to 1.2?
00:31	mattrepl	perhaps it's missing metadata for the symbol
00:34	m0smith	muhoo: you are right
00:34	m0smith	muhoo: :dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure "1.4.0"]
00:35	mdeboard	Is enlive an outlier in terms of its package naming? i.e. ``:dependencies [[enlive "1.0.0"]]`` in project.clj but then in the source I import it via ``:require [net.cgrand.enlive-html]``
00:35	m0smith	but 1.2.1 is in the lib directory
00:40	mattrepl	need to read docs, but problem may be that modification of volatile field uses a lock on the instance being modified
00:41	mattrepl	and why you would use :unsynchronized-mutable...
00:45	muhoo	mdeboard: iirc, package names can, and often do, have nothing whatsoever to do with namespace names
00:45	mdeboard	Right, just confusing
00:47	muhoo	:dependencies [com.lets.drive.everyone.nuts/packagename "1.0.0"] ...... (:require hahahaa.suckers.its.all.different)
00:48	mdeboard	technomancy: By re-running clojure-jack-in is it starting an additional JVM? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21321471/Screenshot%20from%202012-05-04%2000%3A36%3A44.png
00:50	muhoo	wow, i think i finally got my brain around this whole nosql thing. what a struggle it's been.
00:51	muhoo	it seems the secret is to do all the calculation at WRITE time. no calculation at all at read time, becuase the query language is so limited.
00:52	technomancy	mdeboard: yeah
00:52	mdeboard	muhoo: That is definitely the case for Solr.
00:53	muhoo	advantage: i can do the calculations in clojure :-)
00:55	LuminousMonkey	Is there a way to take a sequence of maps like this: https://gist.github.com/2592077 and make it a nested map {table-name {column-name {column-detail} column-name2 {column-detail}} table-name2 {column-name {...}}} etc.
00:56	LuminousMonkey	I'm thinking about using group-by in two passes, but is there a cleaner way?
00:56	muhoo	LuminousMonkey: a question for amalloy, i expect :-)
00:58	amalloy	i dunno, you could do it that way, or maybe reduce with update-in
00:59	LuminousMonkey	Hmm, I'll keep playing. :)
00:59	LuminousMonkey	Thanks.
00:59	amalloy	(reduce (fn [m {:keys [table_name column_name] :as details] (assoc-in m table_name column_name (-> details (dissoc :table_name :column_name)))) {} rows)?
01:02	mdeboard	I totally forgot I wrote a url shortener using korma + noir like
01:02	mdeboard	holy stuffing, 6 months ago
01:04	muhoo	does it seem like a message from a distant galaxy when you read it now?
01:04	mdeboard	Yes, I have no idea what's happening
01:04	mdeboard	Something about parentheses
01:05	muhoo	i've experienced this same surreal phenomenon recently too
01:05	mdeboard	only reason I even remembered is because I'm going through this screencast
01:05	mdeboard	and it's building out a url shortener. Seeing the form jogged my memory
01:09	muhoo	i'm surprised there isn't some general function or library in clojure to turn a series of flat rows into a map
01:10	muhoo	into a tree, really. maybe it's in zippers or somewhere
01:10	mdeboard	What do you mean by flat rows
01:10	muhoo	LuminousMonkey's gist
01:12	mdeboard	Seems like an odd way to handle the data
01:13	LuminousMonkey	Making it into nested maps?
01:14	mdeboard	Yeah, not sure what the use case is though. I'm really tired however, so that doesn't mean anything.
01:15	tomoj	can you give the gist again?
01:16	mdeboard	https://gist.github.com/2592077
01:16	LuminousMonkey	mdeboard: You are probably right, I'm so used to handling arrays.
01:16	clojurebot	Excuse me?
01:17	tomoj	I don't see what kind of nested maps you would make out of that
01:20	mdeboard	I could see e.g. https://gist.github.com/853b5066813fe1c2d329
01:21	LuminousMonkey	I must be thinking the wrong way, I'm going to have to stop and think about it.
01:23	creese	what's the best way to search a string "cat" to see if it contains the letter \a and return true if it does?
01:24	LuminousMonkey	amalloy: Thanks, I got: (reduce (fn [m {:keys [table_name column_name] :as details}] (assoc-in m [table_name column_name] (-> details (dissoc :table_name :column_name)))) {} (get-current-schema))
01:25	LuminousMonkey	Which seems to work, how on earth you came up with that so quick, I don't know. :)
01:25	amalloy	$javadoc String contains
01:25	lazybot	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/String.html#contains(java.lang.CharSequence)
01:26	mdeboard	oh god yes lein2 repl has `exit`
01:26	LuminousMonkey	mdeboard: exit?
01:26	amalloy	mdeboard: accept unix into your heart and type Ctrl-D
01:26	LuminousMonkey	mdeboard: I always used ctrl-D :)
01:27	mdeboard	amalloy: That has left behind a running jvm that I need to then kill
01:27	Raynes	mdeboard: It has always had exit.
01:27	Raynes	(System/exit 0)
01:27	mdeboard	that's not `exit` :)
01:28	Raynes	It's precisely the same.
01:28	mdeboard	Maybe under the hood, but I shouldn't be expected to google how to exit a repl
01:28	mdeboard	no user should
01:29	Raynes	Every user on this planet knows control d.
01:29	mdeboard	Sure, I just don't want to Ctrl-D and also have to kill -9 whatever
01:30	Raynes	uh
01:30	Raynes	Ctrl-d kills the process, dude.
01:30	amalloy	Raynes: there have been versions of lein where that's broken
01:30	LuminousMonkey	mdeboard: Maybe a bug? I just tested, and it works correctly.
01:30	Raynes	amalloy: There are versions of Leiningen where profiles didn't exist. Not sure that is relevant either.
01:30	mdeboard	Yeah it works now with lein2
01:31	mdeboard	which is great, hence my excitement :)
01:31	Raynes	:)
01:32	tomoj	mdeboard: yeah
01:34	LuminousMonkey	I get terribly impressed with little things in Clojure, like {:keys } destructing, I did not know that.
01:39	tomoj	do default field aliases in defentity not work in korma?
01:45	ibdknox	tomoj: to my knowledge I didn't implement default field aliases :)
01:45	Raynes	"But I was drunk at the time, so hey, who knows?"
01:46	tomoj	I was using fields instead of entity-fields
01:46	tomoj	but entity-fields doesn't seem to work either
01:47	tomoj	(for aliases)
01:47	tomoj	well, doesn't do anything without aliases either
01:49	ibdknox	tomoj: yeah neither of those implement a magical field replacing strategy
01:49	ibdknox	Raynes: :p
01:49	ibdknox	tomoj: what I usually do is something like (def myfiels [[:a :a2] [:b b2]])
01:49	ibdknox	and just use myfields all over the place
01:50	tomoj	can you just (def entity (fields entity myfields))?
01:50	Raynes	"The whole "documentation everywhere" reminds me of Eclipse. Does he really think this is a new idea? "
01:50	Raynes	Man, ibdknox, do people not even watch or read about light table before spewing random garbage about it?
01:50	ibdknox	Raynes: my personal favorite are the I could totally write an emacs plugin that does all of that
01:50	ibdknox	I think they might be missing the point
01:51	ibdknox	tomoj: entity-fields is what you want
01:51	LuminousMonkey	all?!
01:51	ibdknox	tomoj: though that means every query will use them by default unless you specify fields manually
01:52	_tca	ibdknox: have you seen blocky?
01:53	tomoj	that's exactly what I want
01:53	tomoj	but it doesn't seem to work
01:53	tomoj	(well, not quite exactly, but close enough)
01:53	ibdknox	_tca: I haven't, link?
01:54	tomoj	running (select items (where {:id 3573})) I get all fields when I did (entity-fields :id)
01:54	ibdknox	tomoj: might be a bug. I basically never use that
01:54	_tca	http://blocky.io/blog/
01:54	tomoj	entity-fields or korma?
01:54	ibdknox	entity-fields :p
01:54	_tca	ibdknox: it's pretty relevant to stuff you've been doing
01:55	tomoj	I'll do the myfields thing
01:55	ibdknox	_tca: oh neat :)
01:58	LuminousMonkey	I think Bret Victor would be happy with all the stuff that's been happening from his concepts.
02:01	ibdknox	_tca: thanks for that pointer
02:01	ibdknox	looks like he's doing some cool work
02:02	ibdknox	LuminousMonkey: yeah, it's funny. They're all old ideas. We just needed people championing them again
02:02	ibdknox	I stopped thinking about dev tools for a good bit
02:04	LuminousMonkey	ibdknox: Everything in Comp Sci seems to be based off old ideas. :)
02:04	ibdknox	all of it was invented in the 70's by Xerox-PARC ;)
02:05	muhoo	ibdknox: no, 1969: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos
02:05	LuminousMonkey	1968? :P
02:06	muhoo	1968, sorry. i saw the video of it. it was breathtaking. http://www.dougengelbart.org/firsts/dougs-1968-demo.html
02:06	ibdknox	huh
02:06	ibdknox	I thought that was in 74
02:06	muhoo	it felt a LOT like watching ibdknox's demo of lighttable :-)
02:06	ibdknox	something important went down in 74
02:06	LuminousMonkey	muhoo: Thanks for that link, I'll watch that later.
02:15	michaelr525	hey
02:16	michaelr525	why my uberjar doesn't work? I specified :main in project.clj
02:16	michaelr525	java -jar uberjar.jar says it can't find the main class
02:17	LuminousMonkey	And you have (defn -main ...) in the ns you specified with :main in project.clj?
02:18	michaelr525	yup..
02:19	michaelr525	I found someone saying that one has to include a third component in the namespace
02:19	michaelr525	mine only has two components
02:20	LuminousMonkey	I think you might also need (:gen-class) in the namespace declaration that you're using as main?
02:20	Raynes	Yes.
02:22	michaelr525	Yes?
02:22	clojurebot	yes is is
02:22	muhoo	interestingly, in noir projects (maybe for ring projects too?), no such gen-class seems necessary for main
02:23	michaelr525	yes for :gen-class?
02:23	Raynes	Are you running it with `lein run`
02:23	Raynes	muhoo: ^
02:23	muhoo	ah, yes.
02:23	Raynes	Yeah, lein handles it itself.
02:23	muhoo	i guess lein-uberwar injects that for me
02:23	muhoo	lein ring uberwar, sorry
02:27	michaelr525	can I still run it from the repl or `lein run` after adding :gen-class?
02:27	michaelr525	ok :gen-class solved the uberjar problem
02:27	michaelr525	hey nathan
02:39	aperiodi1	michaelr525: yes, you can still launch it in all the normal ways
02:40	aperiodic	i have run into issues where what's in classes/ matters, but i do a lot of kinda hairy java interop (hadoop) so you might not run into that
02:41	aperiodic	judicious use of lein clean; lein compile will handle those sorts of things, though
02:54	michaelr525	aperiodic: cool
02:54	michaelr525	thanks
02:55	michaelr525	how do you guys feel about debugging clojure?
02:56	michaelr525	I mean, when I work in Visual Studio with C# I just press F5 and if the program fails, the debugger breaks in at the failure point and I have everything there
02:57	michaelr525	when something fails in clojure I just have the stacktrace and have to start debugging with pprints and such
03:33	mojito	hi im making my way through clojure koans from: https://github.com/functional-koans/clojure-koans
03:33	mojito	im stuck at - "Higher-order functions take function arguments" (= 25 (___ (fn [n] (* n n))))
03:34	mojito	my guess was that i could use some kind of "apply" the fn to an arg
03:34	mojito	is that the intent of this koan?
03:37	michaelr525	i think ->
03:38	michaelr525	mojito: ^
03:39	mojito	michealr525: ok -> is interesting. but the intent seems to be HOF.
03:39	mojito	i googled around and found #(% 5)
03:39	michaelr525	# is also a macro
03:40	mojito	my question is: what should i take away from this koan? that functions can take functions as arguments? or something else?
03:41	michaelr525	i don't know, i never solved any koans :)
03:42	mojito	:)
03:42	mojito	nm. thanks anyway.
03:42	emezeske	mojito: I think that is what you are supposed to take away.
03:42	emezeske	E.g. functions are just values like everything else, and you can pass 'em as args, etc, etc
03:43	mojito	emezeske: cool
03:54	kral	namaste
04:44	y3di	does anyone know which company backed lighttable 10k?
04:49	Raynes	y3di: Yep.
04:50	Raynes	Can't say I remember at the moment htough.
04:50	Raynes	though*
05:00	y3di	Raynes: ah, well if you remember, do post it here
05:00	y3di	also it looks like lighttables funding is guaranteed
05:00	y3di	(basically)
05:00	y3di	tis good to see
05:02	ejackson	yeah, its great stuff
05:14	ejackson	how does one override lein2's repository locations ?
05:14	ejackson	I have a local nexus and maven is happily using it, but lein thumbs it nose at me
05:36	qerub	Hello. What's the proper way to use clojure.contrib.str-utils (re-gsub) with Clojure 1.3?
05:37	ejackson	str-utils is deprecated
05:37	ejackson	check out clojure.string
05:37	qerub	Ah, right. Thanks!
05:38	qerub	clojure.string/replace will do the trick indeed.
05:38	ejackson	http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/1.3.0/clojure.string
06:34	cshell	waking up early: the world's way of giving you an opportunity to get ahead of your competition
06:37	beffbernard	cshell: or you just can't fall back asleep
06:37	beffbernard	;)
06:57	cshell	beffbernard: haha, that too ;-)
07:10	ssedano1	Hi, how can I make an array of java.lang.String ? I need because of a java method that expects a vararg
07:12	ssedano1	&(into-array ["blah"])
07:12	lazybot	⇒ #<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@c056dc>
07:12	ssedano1	coola
07:12	ssedano1	cool*
07:14	lucian	O'Reily 50% off sale to support DRM-free books
07:14	lucian	s/books/ebooks/
07:34	cshell	lucian: that is the best book on clojure that I've found
07:36	lucian	cshell: i read the preview and had the same impression
07:36	lucian	i'm a bit too poor for the full price version, but this i've certainly bought
07:37	lucian	and hopefully it'll help O'Reily's statistics about how well their DRM-free sale went
07:39	x_or	I'm using emacs/slime to do some clojure programming. I am trying to use the repl, and getting this error: "Unable to resolve symbol: shorten in this context"
07:39	x_or	I have defn'd shorten, but my repl does not seem to be able to access it.
07:39	cshell	lucian: it's great, it has a chapter for all the questions I've ever had about clojure - Chapter 12: how java design patterns map to clojure and then a later chapter that has a flowchart of which type of data structure to use
07:40	cshell	x_or: what namespace are you in?
07:40	x_or	foobar.core
07:40	x_or	Do I need to prefix the call with that?
07:40	cshell	and you defined it in there?
07:40	x_or	No, and I'm new to clojure, so bear with me. The code is like this
07:40	lucian	cshell: the former isn't entirely relevant to a pythonista, but i've thumbed through and looks very nice
07:41	x_or	(ns foobar.core (:use ...) (:require ... ))
07:41	x_or	(defn shorten [] ... )
07:41	x_or	So, shorten is outside of the NS, right?
07:41	cshell	right, but the default namespace in the REPL is user
07:41	cshell	type ns at the repl and it will tell you which one you're in
07:41	x_or	OK. It shows user> at the prompt.
07:42	cshell	lucian: good point - it has some good python references in there too
07:42	x_or	#<Namespace user>
07:42	cshell	x_or: type (require '[foodbar.core :as f])
07:42	cshell	then you do f/shorten
07:42	cshell	er, foobar even
07:43	cemerick	That flowchart originated here, BTW: http://cemerick.com/2011/07/05/flowchart-for-choosing-the-right-clojure-type-definition-form/
07:43	x_or	Says unmatched delimiter, do I need to use :require?
07:44	Chousuke	you're missing a paren somewher
07:44	Chousuke	e
07:44	cshell	x_or: :require is needed for the REPL - you're missing either a bracket or a paren
07:44	x_or	OK, will verify.
07:45	cshell	cemerick: thanks Chas, you've written a great book - the namespace chapter really clarified things for me - especially regarding use vs refer and require - i'm waiting to read even more, and when i'm done i'll give it a five star review on amazon
07:46	cemerick	cshell: thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying it :-)
07:47	cshell	cemerick: 600 pages - incredible - how long does it take to write a book like that? (and maintain such high quality, of course)
07:47	x_or	cemerick: I really enjoyed your screencast via Oreilly the other day. Not sure if you felt this way, but seeing you troubleshoot when things went awry was actually very helpful to me.
07:47	cemerick	cshell: Well, I had help, too :-)
07:48	cemerick	But, the writing essentially took a full 12 months.
07:48	cemerick	Plus 4 months on each end of that for all sorts of stuff around the project.
07:49	cshell	cemerick: wow, amazing - that contrasts so much with other authors I know who just throw together a basic example and write 200 pages about it in two weeks
07:49	cemerick	hah, which authors can do that?! :-)
07:51	cshell	Haha, I forget his name, but he was a part time trainer for a software company and told me he'd just read the specs, and just make an example based off of it - he said he was contracted for about one a month or so - but like most of the tech books out there now, it lacked in depth - you guys seem to have covered everything
07:52	cshell	every question i've had so far, whether about syntax, idioms, or moving from java, has all been answered
08:02	Borkdude	I have this git project: https://github.com/Borkdude/tictactoe. I cloned it, created a general project out of it in Eclipse and now want to turn on Clojure+Leiningen support
08:02	Borkdude	When I try to turn on Clojure support I get this: http://twitpic.com/9h51np
08:03	Borkdude	why?
08:03	clojurebot	why is the ram gone is <reply>I blame UTF-16. http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/but-why-is-the-ram-gone
08:04	Borkdude	cemerick: poke
08:05	cshell	Borkdude: there's probably a message in a log file somewhere that will help you
08:05	cemerick	Borkdude: can you paste the project.clj?
08:06	Borkdude	cemerick: it's on github, https://github.com/Borkdude/tictactoe
08:06	cemerick	and yeah, there's probably a helpful exception in the error log
08:06	cemerick	sorry, didn't scroll up :-)
08:06	cemerick	well, that's simple enough
08:07	Borkdude	cshell: cemerick do you mean in the "Problems" view?
08:07	cemerick	Borkdude: nope; Window > Show View > Error Log
08:08	Borkdude	cemerick: wanted to try out the approach from your video
08:08	Borkdude	cemerick: but maybe I missed something?
08:08	cshell	Borkdude: Can you run the project from the command line with lein?
08:08	cemerick	Borkdude: I just created a project and added Leiningen support without an issue using that project.clj. Definitely need that stack trace.
08:09	Borkdude	cemerick: ow, here it is: Nature ccw.nature is missing prerequisite nature: org.eclipse.jdt.core.javanature.
08:10	cemerick	yuck
08:10	Borkdude	cshell: I think so, but I want to try it from Eclipse only (it's for my students, so that they won't have to install the script)
08:10	cemerick	Borkdude: what sort of Eclipse build do you have? Does it have Java support in it?
08:10	cshell	Borkdude: something seems wrong with your eclipse install - I don't think that error is clojure/lein related
08:10	cemerick	also, what version of ccw?
08:10	Borkdude	cemerick: yes, it's Indigo, the J2EE version, I do lots of Java and Clojure things with it
08:11	Borkdude	cemerick: 0.7.0.STABLE001
08:12	cemerick	hrm, same as me, mostly
08:12	Borkdude	cemerick: I did forget anything? I created a "general project" instead of a Java or Clojure project, but I saw that from your video I think
08:12	Borkdude	"did I" I mean..
08:12	cshell	Borkdude: It's not a clojure 1.2.0 vs 1.3.0 is it?
08:14	Borkdude	cshell: hem, it says clojure 1.2.0 in the project.clj but ccw doesn't look at this right
08:14	cemerick	ah-ha
08:14	cemerick	Borkdude: you have to add Leiningen support first, then Clojure.
08:14	Borkdude	cemerick: ah… sorry then
08:14	Borkdude	:(
08:14	cemerick	Adding the lein support coerces it into a JDT project, which explains the error message.
08:15	cshell	interesting quirk
08:15	cemerick	lpetit is working on a proper leiningen/clojure import wizard AFAIK
08:15	Borkdude	cemerick: so from configure I should see "add leiningen support"?
08:15	cemerick	cshell: that's an artifact of bootstrapping the thing from a bare project, vs. a Java or Clojure project from the start.
08:16	Borkdude	cemerick: I don't see this option…
08:16	cemerick	Borkdude: right-click project node > Configure > Convert to Leiningen Project
08:17	cshell	cemerick: ah cool
08:17	Borkdude	cemerick: http://twitpic.com/9h58nj ...
08:17	cemerick	Borkdude: have you not installed the Leiningen eclipse plugin?
08:18	cemerick	http://ccw.cgrand.net/updatesite-lein-betas is the update site FYI
08:18	Borkdude	cemerick: I thought I had, but I must have removed it…. going to try it again
08:21	cshell	Does anyone know the state of ClojureScript? Is it mature enough to use on a production app?
08:21	Borkdude	cemerick: ok did that… and now add clojure support to it?
08:21	Borkdude	cemerick: after adding leiningen support I mean
08:23	cemerick	Borkdude: Yup
08:24	Borkdude	cemerick: I keep getting the same msg
08:24	cemerick	does the project now have a "Leiningen dependencies" classpath container within it?
08:24	Borkdude	cemerick: Problem requiring namespace/getting var ccw.clojure-project-nature/factory from bundle ccw.core
08:24	Borkdude	cemerick: no...
08:25	cshell	restart eclipse?
08:25	cemerick	There's something wonky.
08:25	cemerick	I would suggest: cloning the project clean
08:25	cemerick	and, if you didn't restart eclipse after installing the leiningen plugin, doing so
08:26	cemerick	(I've never been able to install an eclipse plugin, enable it, and use it properly without restarting) :-(
08:26	Borkdude	cemerick: ah.. the plugin installation doesn't demand it? then I didn't do it, will do now
08:27	Borkdude	cemerick: let me just try the workflow from the beginning, having restarted eclipse
08:29	Borkdude	cemerick: deleted project. did a git clone, made a project in eclipse. "convert to leiningen project" -> Unhandled event loop exception
08:30	cemerick	bizarre
08:30	Borkdude	cemerick: https://gist.github.com/2594486
08:30	cemerick	whoa, clojure.core/refer is unbound?!
08:30	cemerick	something is definitely wonky in your environment / install
08:31	cemerick	I suggest reporting this (e.g. to http://groups.google.com/group/clojuredev-users/) with the stack trace and a link to the project, etc.
08:31	x_or	cshell: I've tried all the things you suggest, but still cannot get this (https://gist.github.com/2594485) to work. cemerick: I am using the example you used a few days in your webcast.
08:31	x_or	When I run (require '[foobar.core :as f]) I get "Unmatched delimiter: ]"
08:32	cemerick	x_or: You have an extra ] instead of a ) after the compojure.core :use
08:34	x_or	cemerick: OK, that makes sense. Now when I run the require I get "Could not locate compojure/core__init.class or compojure/core.clj on classpath:"
08:35	Borkdude	cemerick: I had this error before, this is why I de-installed the leiningen plugin before I think… can try a fresh Eclipse
08:35	x_or	Shouldn't lein manage dependencies for me? Or, do I need to run something within emacs to handle installing compojure?
08:35	cemerick	x_or: yes, you should absolutely be using Leiningen.
08:35	cemerick	Sorry, misread that Q :-)
08:36	cemerick	x_or: how are you starting a REPL within emacs?
08:36	x_or	clojure-jack-in
08:36	x_or	lein is in my path.
08:37	cemerick	I'd start a REPL on the console `lein repl` and see how things go. If things work fine there, then you need to find an emacs wizard to help you with that department. :-)
08:37	x_or	cemerick: Sounds good. Thanks, appreciate getting feedback from the guru. :)
08:38	x_or	Same error: FileNotFoundException Could not locate compojure/core__init.class or compojure/core.clj on classpath: clojure.lang.RT.load (RT.java:430)
08:39	cemerick	x_or: can you paste your project.clj?
08:39	x_or	Do I need to do something special to install compojure?
08:41	x_or	Ooh that is the problem...
08:43	felideon	ooh nice, Clojure Programming ebook for $17.99
08:43	felideon	(today)
08:47	Borkdude	cemerick: fyi, a fresh Eclipse with a fresh leiningen plugin, I get this https://gist.github.com/2594570
08:47	Borkdude	cemerick: will e-mail it to the list now
08:47	cemerick	man, that's a low-level failure :-\|
08:51	robertstuttaford	has anyone got any pointers to quickstarts with clojure and mongodb? as a learning project i want to replicate a rest json api we have together using ring and compojure that uses our mongo db
09:01	Borkdude	cemerick: sent the e-mail, I'm off now
09:11	mdeboard	So is this just how pattern matching in Clojure works? dnolen just tweeted this a bit ago https://gist.github.com/2594296
09:13	babilen	mdeboard: For further details see https://github.com/clojure/core.match
09:13	mdeboard	So, yes then?
09:14	Licenser	pattern matching is cool
09:14	mdeboard	lokos like it, p funny. I think his gist is in response to http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3927652
09:14	cemerick	yes, that's one approach to pattern matching
09:14	cemerick	surely the most popular, as these things go
09:14	robertstuttaford	tries to understand it
09:15	mdeboard	robertstuttaford: It helps to think of it in terms of "if/else if" blocks
09:15	mdeboard	It helps me*
09:16	robertstuttaford	so the first [] {} is and if () {}, and the rest of the [] {} are else if () {}?
09:16	robertstuttaford	an*
09:16	robertstuttaford	oh i get it
09:16	robertstuttaford	that's awesome!
09:16	Licenser	it is
09:17	Licenser	then again I'm an erlang person :) have to
09:17	robertstuttaford	i'm about 5 days into FP as a whole
09:17	robertstuttaford	mind blown regularly
09:17	Licenser	yea get a good head to cover all the brain that will gow out of the craters
09:18	robertstuttaford	i'm busy doing the clojure koans. really enjoying it
09:19	Licenser	can imagine :) it's one of the greatest langauges to learn
09:25	robertstuttaford	this one's confused me
09:25	robertstuttaford	(= 25 (___ (fn [n] (* n n))))
09:25	mdeboard	Is pattern matching considered cyclomatic complexity?
09:25	robertstuttaford	"Higher-order functions take function arguments"
09:32	_KY_	Is there a function to find the position of a sub-list within a list?
09:34	mdeboard	_KY_: Is this a list of lists? e.g. '((1 2) (3 4) (5 6)) etc?
09:34	_KY_	No just a flat list...
09:35	_KY_	So I want to find say [4 5 6] in [2 3 4 5 6 7]
09:36	mdeboard	Right, there are several "longest common subsequence" algorithms, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuth%E2%80%93Morris%E2%80%93Pratt_algorithm not sure if there's a stdlib implementation
09:36	robertstuttaford	clojure.set/intersection?
09:36	clojurebot	clojure is the bestest programming language available.
09:37	mdeboard	robertstuttaford: He wants position though
09:37	robertstuttaford	ah
09:41	_KY_	Just a simple function will do... the lists are tiny =)
09:42	dxlr8r	trying to set up leiningen… but it stands on "Downloading index from central - http://repo1.maven.org/maven2" forever when I try to search for something
09:42	dxlr8r	I have a fast internet, been at it for over half an hour
09:42	_KY_	Yeah I have that problem before
09:43	mdeboard	robertstuttaford: I dunno about higher order functions but #(% 5) solves your question earlier
09:43	_KY_	The site seems overloaded or broken
09:43	dxlr8r	du -s .m2 , it doesn't get bigger either
09:43	mdeboard	# is just a macro for an anonymous fn though
09:43	_KY_	I ended up not searching and asking for others to fill in the incantations
09:43	dxlr8r	_KY_ why does that always happen when us noobs are going to test out stuff? :P
09:44	robertstuttaford	mdeboard: yes, thank you, got there
09:44	_KY_	=)
09:45	robertstuttaford	i was able to install lein2 earlier today
09:45	dxlr8r	well, trying to delete .m2 and se what's happening
09:45	robertstuttaford	using the instructions on the lein github page
09:45	dxlr8r	yeah, me 2
09:46	dxlr8r	there should be mirrors
09:47	mdeboard	(= 25 (->> 5 ((fn [n] (* n n))))) is a better way imo, but doesn't fit the problem
09:48	dxlr8r	the few times I have been dealing with maven it has seemed to fuck up everything...
09:48	robertstuttaford	i have yet to learn about (->) and (->>)
09:52	mdeboard	they're pretty neat
09:59	robertstuttaford	how many 'core' functions are there to learn?
09:59	clojurebot	anonymous functions are functions with no names
09:59	robertstuttaford	tens? hundreds?
09:59	robertstuttaford	clojurebot???
09:59	lazybot	robertstuttaford: Oh, absolutely.
09:59	clojurebot	clojurebot is amazing
09:59	mdeboard	lol
10:01	mdeboard	robertstuttaford: http://www.clojureatlas.com/org.clojure:clojure:1.4.0?guest=t
10:01	uvtc	robertstuttaford, http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
10:01	robertstuttaford	i guess the only function i need to know is (doc)
10:01	robertstuttaford	awesome
10:03	mdeboard	I'm not sure how I feel about the atlas
10:04	x_or	I'm getting a "Too many arguments to def" error when I attempt to require my module. Is there a reference on how to breakdown the stack trace and understand whether this is an issue in my code or the clojure library?
10:04	acheng	robertstuttaford: sometimes find-doc before doc, and sometimes just #clojure :-P
10:04	robertstuttaford	ah, find-doc - thanks for that!
10:05	mdeboard	x_or: If there is a good/simple/straightforward way to understand stack trace for Clojure (any JVM language, I expect) I don't know what it is.
10:05	mdeboard	Not that me not knowing is indicative of a larger issue
10:06	x_or	mdeboard: :)
10:07	mdeboard	x_or: I've never used this, and just found it via google, but http://richhickey.github.com/clojure/clojure.stacktrace-api.html
10:07	lazybot	Nooooo, that's so out of date! Please see instead http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.stacktrace-api.html and try to stop linking to rich's repo.
10:07	mdeboard	oops, your'e right lazybot, sory
10:07	mdeboard	didn't check the uRL
10:07	fliebel	x_or: Usually when I get that error, I have been doing Python, and defined a function using def instead of defn
10:07	mdeboard	ha
10:07	felideon	lol nice lazybot
10:08	fliebel	Can't rich just fix the internet and update his clojure repo?
10:08	acheng	robertstuttaford: thanks for the tip yesterday that paredit exists in eclipse (and not just in emacs) i didn't know that
10:09	ssedano1	How can I create an array of a certain enum to pass it to a java method vararg?
10:09	x_or	fliebel: Yep, that was it.
10:09	mdeboard	awesome
10:10	fliebel	ssedano1: An array of an enum?
10:10	robertstuttaford	my pleasure. CCW is great
10:11	robertstuttaford	paredit is fantastic
10:11	ssedano1	(into-array [(Enum/VALUE)]) ?
10:13	ssedano1	yeah that it is
10:15	ssedano1	&(into-array [java.lang.Integer/MAX_VALUE])
10:15	lazybot	⇒ #<Integer[] [Ljava.lang.Integer;@6a67dc>
10:18	mdeboard	cemerick: If I pay for Atlas is there a setting to stop the bouncey nodes
10:18	cemerick	bouncey nodes?
10:19	mdeboard	the animation
10:19	ssedano1	fliebel: I need to call a java method that expectes a vararg of an enum type
10:19	ssedano1	fliebel: that's why I needed to create a java array of one enum value
10:19	fliebel	ah
10:19	ssedano1	but I figured it out, thank you
10:19	mdeboard	Like, not totally stop it but it's hard to find what I want quickly as I need to wait for the animation to stop
10:20	cemerick	mdeboard: oh, I see. Yes, that's probably the #1 gripe.
10:21	cemerick	working on it :-)
10:21	cemerick	it's a particle simulation underneath, which hopefully partially explains the challenge.
10:21	mdeboard	cool, good enough for me
10:21	fliebel	cemerick: What is the advantage of paying anyhow? Does the try function expire eventually?
10:21	cemerick	fliebel: it'll stop nagging you
10:21	mdeboard	i like paying people for neat stuff they make as long as it's not ridiculously expensive
10:21	mdeboard	and $5 isn't bad
10:22	fliebel	hadn't noticed the nagging...
10:22	mdeboard	fliebel: Clean up your room
10:22	cemerick	fliebel: heh, maybe I have it set too high; I think it starts after 25 clicks or something.
10:22	mdeboard	and call your mother more often
10:22	fliebel	mdeboard: ?
10:22	mdeboard	nagging
10:22	uvtc	not naggy enough. Must increase nagging factor.
10:24	fliebel	I wonder if Atlas + Light table is something interesting.
10:28	mdeboard	rm seo/tests/runner.py
10:28	mdeboard	feh
10:28	robertstuttaford	heh
10:30	TEttinger	I assume many people in here know about http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ibdknox/light-table?ref=home_popular ?
10:31	TEttinger	I'm kinda wondering if I want to back it
10:31	espeed	how do you enable SLIME REPL history for the up arrow?
10:32	fliebel	TEttinger: You want. At least, deep inside...
10:32	TEttinger	as long as ibdknox isn't this guy http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/05/04
10:35	uvtc	What does it mean for a data structure to "participate" in an abstraction? (primary Clojure abstractions such as Collection, Sequence, Associative, etc.)
10:36	uvtc	(Reading the wonderful "Clojure Programming" book, btw. Thank you authors (cemerick, not sure of others' nicks).)
10:36	uvtc	Is an abstraction defined by the functions that are expected to work right on object types which implement said abstraction?
10:37	mdeboard	TEttinger: I kicked in a couple dollars toward it, based strictly on the strength of ibdknox's contributions to Clojure in general. I wasn't as amped about the idea in general as others, tbh. But he's one of those dudes I feel like can make something cool given resources.
10:37	mdeboard	uvtc: It seems like you're asking about the general concept of an abstraction
10:39	uvtc	mdeboard, Well, I know what an abstraction is in terms of OOP languages. You've got an abstraction which says, "if your object supports these methods, than it implements the abstraction". If it quacks like a duck ...
10:39	uvtc	s/than/then
10:40	uvtc	But in Clojure, the data structures are just data ...
10:41	mdeboard	Well, they're not JUST data, they're also instructions. instructions which abstract away implementation details from the user while preserving semantics
10:42	mdeboard	e.g. &(doc partial)
10:42	uvtc	mdeboard, I don't see how, say, a vector is "also instructions". It's just an indexable sequence of things, afaict.
10:42	mdeboard	&(doc partial)
10:42	lazybot	⇒ "([f arg1] [f arg1 arg2] [f arg1 arg2 arg3] [f arg1 arg2 arg3 & more]); Takes a function f and fewer than the normal arguments to f, and returns a fn that takes a variable number of additional args. When called, the returned function calls f with args + additional args."
10:42	faust45	hi guys
10:42	robertstuttaford	data that contain instructions that cause the runtime to do things. those instructions belong to these abstractions
10:42	faust45	is it right way to handle non block io with agents send-off
10:42	faust45	?
10:43	Chousuke	uvtc: the abstractions define a bunch of operations that the data structures support
10:43	mdeboard	uvtc: I think in the book (I don't have it in front of me) participation in an abstraction just means that that particular data type is used to create the abstraction. e.g. seqs used to create like (take), (drop) etc
10:43	uvtc	Chousuke, but how does a data structure "support" anything? Isn't it up to the function to decide if it supports the data structure?
10:43	Chousuke	uvtc: no
10:44	Chousuke	uvtc: the data structure determines what operations are sensible.
10:44	Chousuke	you can't add in the middle of a vector for example
10:45	Chousuke	and linked lists are not associative, so it makes no sense for them to implement lookup by key
10:45	mdeboard	There are certain operations that can be efficiently executed on one data type but not another, etc.
10:45	bolic	Is anyone using clojureql? I would like to process a large resultset sequentially, using paging (mysql first/max). Is there a way to do it without using take/drop? Here's an attempt that doesn't work so far http://pastie.org/3859229 (see comment below the code: no paging params in the generated sql)
10:45	uvtc	Chousuke, Oh, implement behind the scenes. Hm.
10:46	mdeboard	uvtc: "implementation behind the scenes" is the a characteristic of an abstraction
10:47	mdeboard	whoops, "is a core characteristic"
10:47	Chousuke	uvtc: but in essence each abstraction is just a bunch of operations with no data attached to them
10:47	Chousuke	which is different from usual class-style abstraction which couples data and operations
10:47	Chousuke	and which is generally frowned upon in clojure-land :P
10:48	mdeboard	oh hm, never really made that connection
10:48	mdeboard	ditto
10:49	uvtc	Chousuke, mdeboard I think my brain has been stuck in OO-mode for a while. Thanks for the help.
10:50	Chousuke	in a Clojure application you could just as well provide an abstraction as a bunch of functions, with no language-level "interface" behind it
10:50	mdeboard	uvtc: Yeah was just thinking that I haven't trained my brain to flex the FP muscles while relaxing the OO muscles
10:51	mdeboard	Like how I can wink my right eye without moving my left, but not vice versa :P
10:51	uvtc	The book mentions the Collection abstraction, and then lists: conj, seq, count, empty, and =. If some data objects behaves correctly when those fn's are called on it, then it implements the Collection abstraction. Correct?
10:51	gfredericks	mdeboard: ;)
10:51	uvtc	s/data objects/data object/
10:52	Borkdude	functions are objects, sometimes with data attached (closures)
10:52	Chousuke	uvtc: yeah. and in the JVM implementation the objects actually implement the corresponding interface(s).
10:53	TimMc	gfredericks: ¦)
10:53	Borkdude	I need caffeine now...
10:53	Chousuke	but eq java String works with seq even though it doesn't implement the clojure interface; it's special-cased in the implementation
10:53	Chousuke	so you could say it participates in the abstraction because all the user sees of it the "seq" function
10:54	Chousuke	+is
10:54	gfredericks	TimMc: ooooooh
10:54	gfredericks	TimMc: I bet that took practice
10:54	Chousuke	also eg
10:54	Chousuke	:P
10:54	uvtc	Chousuke, Thank you.
10:54	gfredericks	huh; do string seqs hold a ref to the string?
10:55	joegallo	mdeboard: a semi-related thought. java has a "stream" abstraction. but there's no class for stream itself. there's InputStream and OutputStream, and they represent aspects of the stream abstraction, but the language itself doesn't have (doesn't need?) a mechanism for elaborating on that thing by itself. (this seems related to me, but if it just confuses things more, then please ignore me.)
10:55	Chousuke	gfredericks: as far as I know yes
10:55	mdeboard	joegallo: No I see what you mean
10:55	S11001001	unfortunately forall x,y in javaarrays, (= (seq x) (seq y)) does not imply (= x y)
10:55	Chousuke	yeah seqs over mutable things are a bit iffy :/
10:56	TimMc	gfredericks: Does your keyboard still have the ¦ symbol for the \| key? Mine doesn't. When did that happen?
10:56	mdeboard	\|)
10:56	Chousuke	actually, mutable things are a bit iffy :p
10:56	gfredericks	TimMc: nope
10:56	gfredericks	\|)
10:56	gfredericks	I guess that's a geordi face?
10:56	mdeboard	\|-) looks mor eli--
10:56	mdeboard	dammit
10:57	Chousuke	hmm, I can get ¦ with shift-altgr-<
10:57	Chousuke	I wonder if that character is useful somewhere
10:57	gfredericks	demonstrating double-winking skills
10:58	TimMc	gfredericks: I practice that every night, for hours at a time.
10:58	TimMc	Sometimes it causes me to hallucinate.
10:58	gfredericks	crap
10:58	mdeboard	lol
10:58	mdeboard	@ that description of blinking/sleeping
10:59	TimMc	There: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar#Solid_vertical_bar_vs_broken_bar
11:00	ejackson	geordi face !
11:00	acheng	;) !)
11:00	gfredericks	I would go drinking at a place called "Solid Vertical Bar Vs Broken Bar"
11:04	Fullmoon	Could someone critique a little bit of code I wrote to read all the output of a shell command? I am not quite sure I do the right thing wrt reading from the stream
11:05	Fullmoon	https://gist.github.com/2595281
11:05	gfredericks	immutability in parenting: "changing" a diaper does not actually alter the original diaper, but rather returns a new diaper.
11:06	tmciver	gfredericks: yeah, but the baby alters the original diaper . . .
11:07	acheng	garbage collection on the old diaper happens too slow imho
11:08	michaelr525	err
11:10	gfredericks	tmciver: I infer from your punctuation that babies can have thread-local bindings
11:13	nDuff	gfredericks: ...there certainly do exist people for whom who is and is not their baby depends on context.
11:14	mdeboard	I am so disturbed.
11:14	mdeboard	dynamic babies
11:14	gfredericks	(with-baby jake (generate-birthday-gift))
11:17	tomoj	Fullmoon: you shouldn't need to read char by char
11:18	Fullmoon	tomoj: Yeah, I could read it into buffers, but then the if-eof check is more the thing which I think is most problematic
11:18	tomoj	(defn exec [command & args] (slurp (.getInputStream (run-process (into [command] args)))))
11:20	tomoj	also I imagine this is a pedagogical example, but https://github.com/Raynes/conch
11:21	Fullmoon	tomoj: Nice, thank you
11:22	Borkdude	when I do a "lein test" on this one https://github.com/Borkdude/tictactoe it also tries to test the namespace "testdata", can I tell lein that this namespace doesn't contain tests?
11:23	Borkdude	not such a big deal btw
11:31	TimMc	Fascinating. If I understand this correctly, the JVM considers a method's return type to be part of its signature, but Java does not.
11:32	nonuby	TimMc, that essential or how would object a = x.method1() work
11:32	rhc	TimMc: what are the implications of that?
11:32	mefesto	TimMc: How so? I thought Java did
11:33	nonuby	if there exists a method1() that returns Car
11:33	TimMc	So to account for narrowing return types in Java-method "overrides", the compiler inserts a synthetic bridge method with the wider return type.
11:33	nonuby	and method1() that returns Truck
11:33	nonuby	both derives types of Object
11:33	rhc	ah crazy
11:33	rhc	similar weirdness in C++ with narrowing retrn types in derived classes
11:34	TimMc	mefesto: Java only pays attention to the params.
11:34	chouser	TimMc: if that's right, that's the clearest explanation of bridge methods I've ever heard. Thanks!
11:34	TimMc	chouser: Well, there are other kinds of bridge methods, too. The problem is, they apparently aren't documented in the JVM spec. They just exist...
11:35	TimMc	^ second-hand information
11:35	Borkdude	what is a bridge method?
11:35	mefesto	TimMc: But if you implement an interface you must have an acceptable return type for the methods you implement, no?
11:36	TimMc	mefesto: Yes, but the return type can be narrower.
11:36	rhc	mefesto: check this out http://stas-blogspot.blogspot.com/2010/03/java-bridge-methods-explained.html
11:37	TimMc	Yep, that's the source I used.
11:41	rhc	that's interesting when you think about performance: every call to a generics base class will actually incur two function calls, right?
11:45	mefesto	interesting
11:45	TimMc	Sure, but function calls are pretty fast, and I would imagine that HotSpot can inline such tiny methods.
11:46	yoklov	i mean, lambda is the ultimate goto, after all :p
11:46	yoklov	though i don't know if the jvm has gotos
11:47	dnolen	yoklov: exceptions
11:48	fdaoud	Hi all. I'm looking at Mustache and I don't "get" what lambdas are or why you would need to use them in your templates. Any enlightment would be appreciated.
11:49	yoklov	dnolen: ah, that sorta makes sense. exceptions are sort of more general than gotos though, right?
11:49	yoklov	or more specific maybe, hm
11:49	dnolen	yoklov: yes more specific.
11:50	yoklov	fdaoud: what sort of languages do you have experience with?
11:50	yoklov	a lambda is just a first class function, equivalent to javascript's `function` keyword
11:50	fdaoud	yoklov: Java, Clojure, Groovy, Ruby..
11:51	yoklov	it's the fn keyword in clojure, and something like blocks/procs/lambdas in ruby
11:51	fdaoud	yoklov: ok, I'm with you there. I just don't understand how they are used in Mustache templates, what problems they solve.
11:52	fdaoud	yoklov: I mean, wouldn't you just do all the "hard work" in Clojure to prepare a data structure for the view, and just ship it off to a simple Mustache template?
11:52	bhenry1	someone refresh my memory. what would make me want to put ^:export in a clojurescript defn?
11:53	yoklov	fdaoud: i don't really have experience with moustache, i experience explaining lambdas to people, haha.
11:53	fdaoud	yoklov: fair enough :-)
11:54	yoklov	Though, looking at it it looks like they serve the purpose of allowing you to write more customizable templates
11:55	vojd	fdaoud: if i understand it correctly its not too far from a macro. the lambda is called and expands into the template
11:55	vojd	so you could cleanly print {{ nof_users }}
11:55	vojd	and then have a lambda which would format the html around that block
11:56	yoklov	the documentation has {:greet #(str "Hello, " %)} and then {{#greet}}Felix{{/greet}}, which inserts the output of (#(str "Hello, " %) "Felix") into whatever you are templating
11:56	vojd	check here: http://mustache.github.com/mustache.5.html and scroll down to Lambda
12:00	fdaoud	yoklov, vojd: I've read the docs and the examples. I just don't understand why you need that. Why not just {:greet (greet "Felix")} and (defn greet [x] (str "Hello, " x))
12:00	fdaoud	then the template just has {{greet}}
12:00	vojd	fdaoud: my quick answer is. moustache wasnt written with clojure in mind ;)
12:01	vojd	think of all the other languages out there which would benefit greatly from a neat template language
12:01	yoklov	fdaoud: what if you want to greet many people the same way?
12:01	yoklov	you could just use greet, and then later should you want to change the way you greet them you only need to change the definition of greet
12:02	fdaoud	yoklov: {:greet (map greet many-people)}
12:02	vojd	another plus for moustache is that a person familiar with it can work together with devs from clojure, python, java and still have a tool which works in all areas
12:02	yoklov	fdaoud: wouldn't work if those greetings weren't all in the same place
12:02	_tca	fdaoud: it's all preference
12:03	yoklov	fdaoud: using it as a function is more flexible
12:04	yoklov	fdaoud: but yeah, it comes down to personal preference.
12:04	yoklov	though i think using functions would prove to be less of a pain to maintain in the future.
12:05	fdaoud	yoklov: ok, I think I get it. thanks.
12:08	yoklov	fdaoud: great!
12:09	fdaoud	yoklov: I guess I find it strange to pass a function to the template and have the template call that function with data. I don't see how that data could be in the template but not on the server. Also strange to go back to the server to generate the output.
12:09	fdaoud	seems backwards to me.
12:11	vojd	but you do have the data in the template already
12:11	vojd	no round trips to the server
12:11	brainproxy	I'm getting an error when trying to call the add-dependencies func from clojurescript's closure.clj
12:11	brainproxy	https://gist.github.com/2595668
12:12	fdaoud	vojd: best thing for me to understand is an example where the solution with a mustache lambda is better than a solution without.
12:12	yoklov	fdaoud: i'd think of the server-side part as making a library of functions for use inside your templates
12:12	brainproxy	note I'm a noob and feeling my along, so I may be making a basic mistake, but haven't been able to figure it out w/ google's help
12:13	fdaoud	yoklov: ok, but why call those functions from the templates instead of calling them from the code that prepares the data for the template?
12:13	yoklov	fdaoud: hm, i'd think that it would make your templates clearer
12:15	Licenser	A prime example why imutabilty is great: https://gist.github.com/2595753
12:15	vojd	fdaoud: imagine you're writing front end stuff for a system where you have no control over the backend
12:15	yoklov	fdaoud: honestly though, I don't really know enough about moustache to say
12:16	Licenser	6 code examples and the only one that works is the one that looks totally wrong
12:16	yoklov	brainproxy: Have you considered using lein-cljsbuild?
12:16	fdaoud	yoklov: ok, I do appreciate your responses!
12:17	yoklov	fdaoud: haha, thanks, wish I could help more!
12:17	brainproxy	yoklov: I'm doing something custom which doesn't fit in with lein, at least not yet
12:17	TimMc	Where did I see some horrible hack that allows you to write fancy condition systems in Java?
12:17	fdaoud	vojd: I think I understand what you mean, but I'm used to the server being the data king, and the client being the powerless slave.. :)
12:18	fdaoud	vojd: so the client template would just have {{stuff}} or {{#things}}<li>{{something}}</li>{{/things}} and let the server create the data structure
12:18	vojd	fdaoud: indeed . i'm with you on that point :)
12:19	brainproxy	yoklov: mainly I'm just trying to understand the error; I can run other functions in the closure namespace, e.g. closure/-compile
12:19	brainproxy	and those work fine
12:19	vojd	fdaoud: and in all honesty, the things made with moustasche can of course also be done with javascript. just a matter of taste in the end
12:20	fdaoud	vojd: so I can't see myself calling {{#lambda}}Jack{{/lambda}} from a template because what is Jack? Why does the template know about Jack?
12:21	yoklov	brainproxy: you're somehow calling something which ends up as (make-reader nil)
12:21	muhoo	is there a clojure idiom for destructuring a map into another map, i.e. mostly renaming and shifting keys around?
12:21	yoklov	since nil doesn't implement clojure.java.io/IOFactory, this is an error
12:21	tomoj	idiom for destructuring?
12:22	yoklov	for anything more you'd have to ask someone who understands the internals of the cljs compiler better than i
12:22	yoklov	such as dnolen, for example, if he's around
12:22	brainproxy	yoklov: okay, well thanks for the feedback, appreciated :)
12:23	muhoo	i.e. to turn {:foo {:bar "baz" } :quux "blah"} into {:somekey "baz" :anotherkey "blah"} ?
12:23	brainproxy	yoklov: cool, will do
12:23	vojd	fdaoud: but say you have different user groups. all strawberry-members shall have a nice little strawberry-avatar and a bold name while the banana-team shall have something else
12:24	dnolen	yoklov: brainproxy: closure.clj is one of the files I don't know that well.
12:24	tomoj	,(doc clojure.set/rename-keys)
12:24	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
12:24	dnolen	brainproxy: I'm curious as to why you need to mess around with that directly.
12:24	tomoj	that helps a bit
12:29	dnolen	lynaghk`: nice C2 on HN.
12:33	lynaghk`	dnolen: uh oh
12:33	lynaghk`	why do I always get publicity before I have time to cleanup READMEs
12:34	yoklov	haha
12:34	ibdknox	heh, that's like when I first "released" noir
12:34	ibdknox	what a disaster that was
12:35	lynaghk`	ibdknox: someone just stumbled on the github and posted to HN?
12:35	ibdknox	yep, at 2am
12:35	lynaghk`	hah
12:35	ibdknox	I had just gotten the site up but hadn't had time to make sure it was ok
12:35	ibdknox	and I was going to bed
12:35	ibdknox	3 hours later I finally passed out
12:36	ibdknox	woke up a couple hours later to find out that I hadn't daemonized my lein process correctly
12:36	ibdknox	and linux killed the process :p
12:36	progo	ouch :)
12:36	ibdknox	I think it was down for like 40 minutes
12:37	ibdknox	lynaghk`: so look at the bright side, at least it's during the day!
12:37	lynaghk`	all of my sites are totally static. I was really stoked about the latest Keming Labs homepage redesign since it ended up being under 100k (including images) and has no JavaScript whatsoever---basically the antithesis of everything we make
12:37	lynaghk`	ibdknox: yeah, true true. The next half hour is as good as any to cleanup the README...
12:39	ibdknox	python's naming conventions seem to be incredibly inconsistent. I miss my everything is lowercase with dashes.
12:41	ivan	the real trouble starts when someone with a PEP8 program wants to use a camelCase library
12:42	ivan	Python standard library actually implements both camel case and underscore in some places
12:42	ibdknox	I've noticed :(
12:42	hhutch	lynaghk`: i was just looking at cljs-chosen .. looks really neat... i'm just still not sure i like adding jQuery as a dependency in my CLJS stack
12:43	dnolen	so should we do another CLJS release?
12:43	lynaghk`	hhutch: since the Harvest folks designed Chosen to support jQuery and prototype, I think you could probably replace the DOM calls to use google's closure
12:43	ibdknox	dnolen: yes please :)
12:43	lynaghk`	hhutch: also, they wrote it in CoffeeScript, so you can use my/bolenfest's fork of that compiler to emit Closure-compatible JS
12:44	lynaghk`	hhutch: so, what I'm saying is: "pull requests welcome" = )
12:44	lynaghk`	dnolen: hells yes.
12:45	dnolen	k email sent to clojure-dev
12:46	hhutch	lynaghk`: i guess i was just commenting because this is an internal debate i'm having about my projects and especially CLJS libraries that will add another dependency (like jquery) in the stack. It seems like jayq has pretty much ended this debate though
12:47	brainproxy	dnolen: I'm working on bridging nodejs/npm directly into the clojurescript compiler using thre require extensions mechanism proided node
12:47	lynaghk`	hhutch: yeah, it depends on your use case. Most of the work we do is on internal networks, so size / dependency bloat hasn't been a big issue for us. Conceptually, though, I would like to be able to avoid jQuery in cljs projects.
12:47	brainproxy	*the require...
12:47	brainproxy	err.. *provided by node
12:48	brainproxy	dnolen: that way, you should be able to do require('clojure-script') and have the same effect as require('coffee-script') with respect to .cljs files
12:49	dnolen	brainproxy: neat. Were you planning on putting together a patch for this?
12:49	brainproxy	dnolen: it will be an npm module
12:49	brainproxy	actually, I've already pub'd it, but it doesn't really work yet
12:50	dnolen	brainproxy: yes, what I mean is that doesn't this require currently require changing the compiler and maintaining your own fork of CLJS?
12:59	brainproxy	dnolen: sorry, internet connection woes .. big storm in the area
13:00	brainproxy	dnolen: https://github.com/michaelsbradleyjr/node-clojurescript
13:00	brainproxy	shouldn't require a fork, as I'm using node-java package to bridge directly into the java api
13:00	OwenOu	hi i am just curious if anyone has played with java 7's new GC with clojure? http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/g1-intro-jsp-135488.html
13:00	dnolen	brainproxy: gotcha. looks cool.
13:01	brainproxy	dnolen: closure/-compile works fine
13:01	brainproxy	it spits back a javascript string
13:01	brainproxy	but if I try closure/add-dependencies, which is what I need next, I'm getting the error in that gist
13:01	prpatel	emacs-clojure n00b here. have quick question: i have everything running, project in lein, swank plugged in, etc.
13:01	brainproxy	not sure if it's an issue with the clojure build I'm using, with clojurescript or what exactly
13:02	wkmanire	Howdy folks.
13:02	dnolen	Licenser: that's more an issue of the lack of proper let scoping in JS
13:02	dnolen	Licenser: did that fix yesterday help you much?
13:03	brainproxy	dnolen: btw, once I have it working, I'll rewrite a newer version of the package in clojurescript, but to start with, it's written in coffeescript
13:03	wkmanire	prpatel: Question?
13:03	Licenser	dnolen I haven't yet run into the same issue :) but I guess it will when I do
13:04	dnolen	brainproxy: hmm, yeah not sure what's going on there - I've never tried calling add-dependencies directly.
13:04	prpatel	trying to run this in the REPL in emacs: (def server (jetty/run-jetty #'app {:port 8080 :join? false}))
13:04	prpatel	i'm working through cemerick's screencast
13:04	prpatel	in emacs rather than CCW
13:04	prpatel	dang it
13:04	prpatel	nevermind
13:04	prpatel	seems to work now, of course the minute I go ask for help
13:05	brainproxy	dnolen: very similar error messages are being reported with a recent vesion of lein
13:05	brainproxy	dnolen: but, this is all a crash course for me, as previously I've not programmed in java or clojure
13:05	prpatel	i was wondering if the REPL in emacs was tied to the running instance... i guess it is
13:05	brainproxy	however, I learn quickly :D
13:05	wkmanire	prpatel: You're using swank right?
13:05	prpatel	yessir I am
13:06	dnolen	brainproxy: it's nice to see that more people are interesting in getting CLJS to work well with Node.js
13:06	dnolen	interested
13:06	wkmanire	Then yeah. It's a client-server setup.
13:06	prpatel	super excited about digging into clojure script... finally found a good use (for me) for clojure :)
13:06	muhoo	technomancy: would you happen to know how many dynos, and of what type, i have to throw at heroku to prevent the app from spinning down?
13:07	brainproxy	dnolen: heck yeah, the promise of immutability, protocols, etc. are just too good not to jump on cljs
13:07	brainproxy	dnolen: a friend and I started playing w/ cljs this past weekend at a hackathon, we're both big node nerds
13:07	technomancy	muhoo: only 1-dyno apps spin down I believe
13:07	brainproxy	by the time we went home, we both were convinced that to not adopt cljs would be a mistake
13:07	brainproxy	:)
13:07	dnolen	brainproxy: awesome!
13:07	muhoo	technomancy: so 2 dynos is no spindown?
13:08	wkmanire	technomancy, muhoo: What does "spin down" mean?
13:08	technomancy	muhoo: that's my understanding
13:08	muhoo	that's great deal actually, thanks
13:08	dnolen	brainproxy: bunch of perf work left to do, but it's cool to hear you're excited about it even it's current state :)
13:08	muhoo	wkmanire: heroku free apps shut down the jvm if it's idle for an hour
13:08	ibdknox	I can confirm that two prevents the spindown
13:09	muhoo	ibdknox: thanks
13:09	lynaghk`	muhoo: that explains a lot...any way to prevent that?
13:09	wkmanire	and this shut down process is called spindown?
13:09	brainproxy	dnolen: the main thing holding me back was the fact that it's not a good palyer wrt npm and node's module system in general
13:09	muhoo	lynaghk`: yeah, pay $35/mo :-)
13:09	technomancy	wkmanire: I think the preferred term is "idling"
13:09	brainproxy	when I discovered node-java earlier this week, I figured what the heck, let's do this
13:09	ibdknox	lynaghk`: or set up something to ping it every 30mins ;)
13:09	dnolen	brainproxy: yeah. Again we're listening - anything to make that simpler is something we're very interested in.
13:10	wkmanire	Oh ok.
13:10	muhoo	the cron-job-to-ping-the-app approach would work for my own stuff, but this is for someone with a budget, they can afford $35/mo
13:10	dnolen	ibdknox: so I take you're not ready to talk about that big donor from yesterday?
13:10	brainproxy	dnolen: what I'm aiming for is to provide the same functionality as the coffee-script module for node, and also make it possible to do things akin to what the ender project does w/ npm
13:10	ibdknox	They won't be well known here I think haha
13:10	ibdknox	dnolen: It's Red Gate software
13:11	brainproxy	dnolen: instead of cake, projects should probably use lein for for build routines and whatnot, but I haven't started messing w/ lein yet
13:11	ibdknox	TimMc: big player in .NET tools
13:11	dnolen	ibdknox: wow, that's very interesting
13:12	ibdknox	dnolen: very interesting lol
13:12	ibdknox	it's a bit of a poke at the bear
13:12	wkmanire	I've used some red gate stuff. I can't remember what it was.
13:12	TimMc	Ah, they are fed up with VS, or what?
13:12	wkmanire	I think it was a code analysis plugin for VS.
13:12	ibdknox	TimMc: I think it's "go where the puck will be"
13:13	ibdknox	10k for a largish organization is a rounding error
13:13	ibdknox	so probably hedging their bets
13:13	ibdknox	they were genuinely excited about it
13:13	ibdknox	a guy flew down yesterday and I talked with him
13:13	ibdknox	(he came for other reasons as well)
13:14	TimMc	Nifty.
13:14	muhoo	most large companies have an internal vc team
13:14	dnolen	brainproxy: looking forward to seeing where this goes.
13:14	muhoo	looking for potential acquisitions, they get toe in with angel money
13:14	ibdknox	muhoo: yeah
13:14	muhoo	that's really good news tho
13:14	dnolen	ibdknox: still nice, you haven't got much further to go now.
13:14	ibdknox	I have another one that I think you guys will be excited about :)
13:15	brainproxy	dnolen: well I'm stuck atm, :), even if you're not too familiar w/ closure.clj, any tips on how I can hunt down the error in that gist?
13:16	jodaro	wow a $10k'er
13:16	jodaro	nice
13:16	dnolen	ibdknox: more secrets!
13:16	ibdknox	dnolen: Hopefully I'll convince them today :)
13:17	solussd_	how do I get aquamacs to use .emacs.d
13:17	solussd_	?
13:19	dnolen	brainproxy: huh when I run that at the repl it just works.
13:19	prpatel	solussd_: you may need to stuff it under /Applications/Aquaemacs/
13:19	brainproxy	dnolen: what version of clojure?
13:19	technomancy	aquamacs? =(
13:20	dnolen	brainproxy: 1.3.0 - that's what ClojureScript uses at the moment
13:20	ibdknox	muhoo: I love that movie
13:20	brainproxy	dnolen: doh, okay, I'm on 1.4.0
13:20	prpatel	solussd_ don't use aquaemacs if possible, just grab emacs 24 and get technomancy or batsov's .emacsd stff
13:20	brainproxy	dnolen: I'll try using 1.3.0
13:20	solussd_	prpatel: It's actually using ~/.emacs.d for me, trying to figure out "how" it is for a coworker
13:21	dnolen	brainproxy: trying now with 1.4
13:21	dnolen	brainproxy: works
13:21	technomancy	suuuuure; it's "for a friend" =)
13:22	brainproxy	solussd_: using "emacs for os x" emacs24 build and bbatsov's prelude are working a lot better for me than aquamacs
13:22	prpatel	solussd_ : don't know much about aquaemacs anymore
13:22	brainproxy	dnolen: okay, well i'll try the older version anyway, just to see if it makes any diff for me
13:23	jodaro	wow
13:23	jodaro	MCA is dead
13:23	jodaro	http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/04/beastie-boys-adam-yauch-dead/
13:28	muhoo	wat? sad.
13:28	zakwilson	I want to get the path to my running jar. A Java answer suggests ClassLoader.getSystemClassLoader().getResource(".").getPath(), but when I try that, getResource returns nil.
13:28	fdaoud	ibdknox: just curious, what does 'ibdknox' mean?
13:29	ibdknox	fdaoud: it's from high school back when I used to play Halo and such. Knox is just what I always named characters, IBD = International Baccalaureate Dork. All my friends were in IB together.
13:30	ibdknox	fdaoud: my cofounder is ibdthor lol
13:30	fdaoud	ibdknox: heh, cool :)
13:30	ivan	lynaghk`: you might be losing some users with that non-obvious --extract flag that you have to find in the video
13:30	ivan	short attention spans and all...
13:31	hiredman	zakwilson: yeah, I can't image that would ever work
13:32	fdaoud	brb
13:32	zakwilson	hiredman: I know little of these things and just tried something I saw on StackOverflow.
13:32	hiredman	. is a unix file system thing, seems unlikely that .getResource would ever look kindly upon it
13:32	hiredman	zakwilson: I suggest doing whatever in a way that avoids needing the path
13:33	zakwilson	hiredman: I want it to look for and/or create files relative to the jar without knowing how the user will launch it (and therefore not being able to predict the working directory at launch)
13:34	lynaghk`	ivan: it's in the vrepl/README.markdown. Where do you think I should add an additional note?
13:35	ivan	well, no thinking is required if that flag isn't needed and the browser page shows "This visual REPL will automatically load the most-recently modified file in samples/"
13:35	ivan	not sure if you want the shortest-attention-span users, though ;)
13:36	brainproxy	dnolen: didnt' work, but was just looking at the pom.xml.template for cljs .. do I need to have the google closure library on my class path in addition to the google closure compiler?
13:36	ivan	I just grabbed the jar and didn't even know there was a README
13:36	dnolen	brainproxy: probably.
13:37	lynaghk`	ivan: I hate it when I run things and they barf on my filesystem, which is why there's a flag. Putting the command line args in the default startup page is a good idea though. I'll cut a new JAR in the next few minutes.
13:37	lynaghk`	ivan: thanks for the feedback.
13:37	ivan	oh, I was running in a VM anyway and didn't care about barfing
13:37	ivan	good point
13:38	wkmanire	lynaghk`: That was nearly quotable.
13:38	lynaghk`	wkmanire: ?
13:39	wkmanire	lynaghk`: I hate it when I run things and they barf on my filesystem too.
13:39	wkmanire	Happened to me yesterday.
13:39	lynaghk`	wkmanire: oh, definitely. so rude!
13:39	wkmanire	Nothing like hand-picking 30 files out of 200 to delete.
13:39	ivan	ls -lrt makes it a little easier
13:40	gfredericks	emacs is always barfing on things
13:40	ivan	not enough backup files, write more backup files
13:40	wkmanire	gfredericks: #WHAT DO YOU MEAN# emacs~ would~ never~ do~ #THAT#
13:40	gfredericks	.#never
13:41	joegallo	zakwilson: getResource on something that actually exists. like clojure/core.clj :)
13:41	ivan	let's put 1000 Clojurists in one room and rewrite Emacs in a week
13:41	joegallo	then you can hork the resulting url apart pretty easily.
13:41	technomancy	ivan: no rudybot in here, sorry =)
13:41	technomancy	rudybot might be more realistic to rewrite in a week though
13:42	wkmanire	Clemacs? Clomacs... Emojure....
13:42	ivan	I'll go with Emojure
13:42	zakwilson	joegallo: thanks. That actually gives me something.
13:42	TimMc	lol @ emojure
13:43	gfredericks	there was a ban of *jure names I think, but I also think rewriting emacs would be an understandable exception
13:43	TimMc	"Clyde" would be a pretty decent name for a Clojure IDE.
13:43	gfredericks	TimMc: that's brilliant
13:44	Chousuke	needs a tool called Bonnie to go with it
13:44	joegallo	I would call it Hubris, but that's just my $.02.
13:44	ivan	would a PersistentVector be a good choice for an editor buffer?
13:44	wkmanire	Damn my nerdly existence.
13:46	gfredericks	ivan: that sounds bad to me
13:46	gfredericks	don't those have to be pretty flexible?
13:46	gfredericks	splicing and joining everywhere?
13:46	zakwilson	It's my understanding that editor buffers are surprisingly hard to do well, and usually end up using specialized tree structures.
13:46	ivan	gfredericks: yes
13:46	gfredericks	I saw an interesting discussion of them on the Good Math Bad Math blog
13:46	ivan	(multiple cursors make things even worse)
13:47	Borkdude	why build clemacs, better build clojure on elisp and not throw away emacs?
13:48	wkmanire	Borkdude: I think it was more of a running joke than anything else.
13:48	ivan	Borkdude: it would be better to keep the elisp and throw away Emacs' buffer/window code (though I don't think many will agree with me)
13:48	technomancy	Borkdude: because emacs doesn't have immutable data structures
13:48	ibdknox	zakwilson: that is correct, some really fancy data structures
13:48	technomancy	Borkdude: http://technomancy.us/159.html
13:49	ivan	Borkdude: mousewheel, word wrap, cursor outside viewport, everything is wrong
13:49	ivan	the scrollbar changes size as you scroll. it's amazing.
13:49	zakwilson	ibdknox: yay! I got one right!
13:49	technomancy	who keeps the scrollbar turned on?
13:50	Borkdude	technomancy: javascript and python do not either right?
13:51	technomancy	Borkdude: JS and Python have immutable strings
13:51	technomancy	and let you implement data structures; with elisp you're stuck with what's implemented in C
13:52	felideon	oh wow, redgate
13:52	Borkdude	technomancy: aha
13:52	felideon	they make some nice tools for .NET ppl
13:53	Fullmoon	I am looking for a Quicktest-style test frameowrk, any recommendations?
13:53	ivan	Python even has immutable tuples on which you can build an ArrayMap
13:54	wkmanire	technomancy: Interesting article.
13:58	wkmanire	technomancy: Just out of curiosity, if I answer "no" to your spam filter question will it still post my comment?
13:58	Borkdude	ibdknox: what is the interest of companies investing larger sums of money, they get more say in the final product? or altruism?
13:58	technomancy	wkmanire: nope, it will be discarded
13:59	wkmanire	technomancy: Ah ok.
14:02	wkmanire	It's pretty damned hard to whistle Thunder Struck isn't it.
14:02	mebaran151	I would like to implement a protocol that would handle generic maps and specific defrecords, with differing semantics. Can I configure extend-type to prefer my implementation inside my defrecord than the generic version for maps?
14:02	wkmanire	My neighbor probably thinks I'm trying to immitate a bird since I have headphones on.
14:06	wkmanire	No Cemerick today eh?
14:07	Borkdude	wkmanire: he was here earlier today
14:08	amalloy	wkmanire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkmbjUsFZt0 is a string-only cover of thunderstruck, if you're into that sort of thing
14:08	gfredericks	this must be one of those things from "the eighties" or something similar
14:11	mebaran151	also, is there an easy way to convert record to a map so I can use transients on them?
14:13	mdeboard	technomancy: re: Your elisp-in-clojure post, thanks. That actually answered some questions I was pondering.
14:13	gfredericks	mebaran151: (into {} rec) should work
14:14	technomancy	mdeboard: cool
14:14	mebaran151	ah yeah that makes sense
14:14	mebaran151	gfredericks: thanks
14:16	wkmanire	gfredericks: It is. It was/is really popular at hockey games.
14:16	wkmanire	amalloy: Neat
14:16	wkmanire	Borkdude: I just got through is breakdown of the game of life algorithm. That's one of my favorite problems. I'm having to re-read the code over and over again to really take in the way you do this sort of thing with clojure.
14:17	Fullmoon	Let's say I have a sequence of maps, and I want to return a map with them grouped key -> count of them, is there something special for that, opposed to reducing, and then map [a, (count b)] ?
14:17	Borkdude	wkmanire: in the clojure book?
14:17	wkmanire	The next bit is the wilson's maze. I'm looking forward to it.
14:17	wkmanire	Borkdude: Yep.
14:17	Borkdude	wkmanire: still waiting for it.. amazon.de is slow this time
14:18	wkmanire	Borkdude: I bought it for my kindle. Aside from the code getting wrapped annoyingly it is well formatted.
14:18	wkmanire	Sometimes I have to use the amazon cloud reader to see the code correctly.
14:18	Borkdude	Fullmoon: (for [s seqs] [(count s) s]) ?
14:19	wkmanire	I wish I could change the orientation of the reader to horizontal for the code segments.
14:19	lynaghk`	ivan: new C2 VREPL pushed.
14:19	Fullmoon	Borkdude: Sure, but I thought that grouping-by-and-returning-the-keys-and-count is so common that it has it's own function
14:19	Borkdude	wkmanire: this is why I don't read textbooks on my kindle yet
14:20	Borkdude	Fullmoon: I never needed that yet, what do you use it for?
14:20	wkmanire	Borkdude: I thought about buying the larger one, but I ended up not spending the money... now I sort of regret it.
14:21	wkmanire	After another few iterations of the kindle I'll probably make the switch to a larger display.
14:24	zanes	wkmanire: You ... can do that? Or do you mean for just the code segments?
14:25	wkmanire	zanes: I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.
14:25	wkmanire	zanes: I can do what?
14:25	zanes	wkmanire: You said that you wished you could change the orientation to horizontal.
14:25	wkmanire	zanes: Yes. Is that possible?
14:25	muhoo	hmm, pprint seems not to be honoring print-level
14:26	technomancy	pprint also ignores flush-on-newlines =(
14:26	zanes	wkmanire: Totally! http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200375800
14:26	muhoo	um, is there a way to get it to behave?
14:26	technomancy	replaca might know
14:26	zanes	wkmanire: Under 'Screen Rotation'.
14:27	wkmanire	cemerick: Hello. I was just talking about your section on Conway's game of life. I was really pleased to see that, it happens to be one of my favorite problems. I don't fully understand the clojure implementation you wrote yet though.
14:27	wkmanire	cemerick: After a few more re-reads and some experimentation I will. I'm looking forward to getting into the wilson's maze algorithm next. Great content!
14:27	cemerick	wkmanire: That part is nearly all Christophe. :-)
14:27	faust45	is it right way using agents send-off to handle non-block io ?
14:27	wkmanire	ahh, well I hope he read that.
14:28	cemerick	He's not in irc much these days.
14:28	muhoo	hehe. blog.n01se.net/?p=85 is reported as an attack page by ffx
14:28	muhoo	:-o
14:29	wkmanire	zanes: I'm using the newer version. the touch. It doesn't have a keyboard.
14:29	TimMc	muhoo: The diagnostic message is pretty confusing.
14:30	TimMc	muhoo: Apparently 0 page(s) resulted in 22 scripting exploit(s) and 1 trojan(s) being downloaded...
14:30	wkmanire	zanes: Looks like the touch doesn't rotate.
14:30	zanes	wkmanire: Oh wow. I have the non-touch latest gen kindle (also no keyboard). I didn't realize the touch didn't have screen orientation controls. That's awful.
14:30	zanes	wkmanire: Yeah, just read. Terrible.
14:30	zanes	:(
14:31	TimMc	And even the Kindle with rotate has very confusing navigation semantics.
14:31	wkmanire	zanes: Yep. Not too pleased about that.
14:31	TimMc	It's not the most pleasant UI.
14:31	patchwork	Hey, what happened to lein interactive?
14:32	technomancy	patchwork: in lein2 that role will hopefully be handled by jark
14:32	technomancy	(but that doesn't work yet)
14:32	wkmanire	cemerick: Anyway, the part about representing the board as a simple collection of live cells is completely obvious to me now.
14:32	TimMc	chouser: You know that blog.n01se.net is marked as an attack page in Firefox?
14:32	wkmanire	cemerick: But I probably would never have thought about it with the book pointing it out.
14:32	patchwork	So I just want to have a lein terminal running that I can execute lein tasks in… anything else out there for that?
14:33	cemerick	wkmanire: then you have reached enlightenment. Or something. :-)
14:33	wkmanire	lol
14:33	cemerick	The maze generation is the real killer IMO.
14:33	muhoo	apparently there's this workaround, but me no like; (binding [print-level 2] (pprint ...
14:33	muhoo	heh, even that doesn't work
14:34	tibaldshillings	#python
14:34	wkmanire	cemerick: That is going to be fun for sure.
14:35	technomancy	cemerick: it's funny how different people react to this drawbridge article
14:35	_KY_	How can I force the first element of a lazy sequence to be evaluated?
14:35	technomancy	cemerick: the ruby people are all "holy crap; that's sweet" and the clojure people are all "man, it's about time!"
14:36	muhoo	i thought drawbridge had been around for a while now
14:36	muhoo	great tutorial btw
14:36	technomancy	thanks =)
14:36	mdeboard	drawbridge?
14:36	mdeboard	tutorial?
14:36	clojurebot	leiningen tutorial is at http://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/TUTORIAL.md
14:36	mdeboard	IRC?
14:36	clojurebot	irc is only for opionfests
14:36	mdeboard	where am I
14:37	muhoo	opion?
14:37	technomancy	muhoo: it's been maybe a month, but I just mean that you haven't been able to get a REPL in a live web dyno on Heroku until recently
14:37	technomancy	"where's my swank?" has been near the top of the list of complaints since we started offering Clojure
14:38	technomancy	mdeboard: https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/debugging-clojure
14:38	technomancy	I should post that to the Clojure list
14:38	mdeboard	orite, neat
14:38	muhoo	that'd be a good place for it
14:39	amalloy	_KY_: just call seq on it
14:40	mdeboard	(defn if-you-like-it-then-you-should-have-put-a-seq-on-it [coll] (seq (first coll)))
14:41	foxdonut	drawbridge?
14:41	technomancy	foxdonut: see the devcenter link above
14:41	dnolen	CLJS users, any thoughts about this ticket? http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-180
14:42	foxdonut	technomancy: thanks, couldn't tell from the link that it was drawbridge.
14:45	cemerick	technomancy: is this happening publicly?
14:46	chouser	TimMc: sigh I did not. Thanks.
14:48	technomancy	cemerick: sorta: https://mobile.twitter.com/rwdaigle/status/198241118629007361
14:49	cemerick	oh, sure
14:49	cemerick	he's "ruby people" then?
14:50	cemerick	technomancy: I'm going to amend your comment for twitter purposes :-P
14:50	Raynes	dnolen: Didn't I report that issue a long time ago?
14:51	technomancy	sure thing =)
14:51	wkmanire	Time to go do boring crap. grumble
14:51	wkmanire	Later fellas.
14:56	muhoo	i am trying to use zippers with defrecord to represent a recursive tree of categories, and i'm lost
14:57	muhoo	i started with this: http://tech.puredanger.com/2010/10/22/zippers-with-records-in-clojure/
14:58	muhoo	i ended up with this https://refheap.com/paste/2550
14:59	dnolen	Raynes: I never saw that ticket
15:00	Raynes	dnolen: It might have been slightly different, and I think my case was fixed so the ticket was probably closed. We talked about it, but it was ages ago.
15:00	amalloy	i think Raynes is referring to his ticket about top-level namespaces being shadowed by functions, not function arguments
15:00	Raynes	Right.
15:02	rednovae	is there a clojure interpter, like clj, that uses something like readline so when i hit UP i get the previous command?
15:02	dnolen	amalloy: Raynes: oh right. This one is a bit trickier (or simpler)
15:02	TimMc	rednovae: You mean a REPL?
15:02	rednovae	TimMc <- 3 minutes of clojure experience, so... maybe?
15:02	amalloy	install leiningen
15:02	yoklov	rednovae: try lein repl
15:03	happy4crazy	rednovae: you could use rlwrap
15:03	rednovae	ok
15:03	TimMc	rednovae: Is "clj" a shell script that launches Clojure? Don't do that.
15:03	Raynes	Guys.
15:03	ibdknox	dnolen: I don't think you can gensym the param names
15:03	Raynes	Just say "install leiningen".
15:03	dnolen	ibdknox: why not?
15:03	Raynes	It is no more difficult or interesting than that.
15:03	Raynes	Don't berate or confuse the poor guy.
15:04	amalloy	but +1 for using rlwrap on similar problems, for when you don't have an option as cool as lein
15:04	rednovae	install leiningen
15:04	Raynes	Indeed.
15:04	rednovae	oh man i am in deep now
15:04	Raynes	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen
15:04	TimMc	Raynes: You would have me not be pedantic? o\__/o
15:04	ibdknox	dnolen: hm, I take that back. I was thinking there might be weird ambiguities with things like "name"
15:05	dnolen	ibdknox: it is kinda gross I admit that.
15:05	ibdknox	dnolen: where it's also shadowing functions in the NS or whatnot, but I guess that isn't ambiguous
15:05	dnolen	ibdknox: but I'm not sure how else we could prevent clashes.
15:06	ibdknox	dnolen: sucks for looking at the generated code
15:06	amalloy	you could gensym the namespaces instead
15:06	ibdknox	dnolen: I'm trying to think of that makes some of the things I'm doing harder, since the names will get munged
15:06	ibdknox	it*
15:06	ibdknox	grr
15:06	ibdknox	if*
15:07	Raynes	We've all had those days.
15:07	cemerick	ibdknox: man, interviews and everything? Don't forget about us peons now that you've made it big. ;-P
15:07	ibdknox	lol
15:07	ibdknox	there should be another one in the next .net magazine :)
15:08	rednovae	ok i'm going to leiningen it up
15:08	dnolen	ibdknox: k I'm convinced we should do the hard thing. I guess advanced compilation makes this less of an issue when dealing with external libs that aren't compiled w/ GClosure.
15:08	Raynes	cemerick: Yeah, dude, I wish he would have asked me for server space so I could sue him later for not considering me a founder… or… or whatever the hell happened in that facebook movie.
15:08	ibdknox	haha
15:08	ibdknox	speaking of servers.. I should've used smaller images
15:08	muhoo	Raynes: you'd need to wear a suit to do that
15:08	ibdknox	I server over half a terabyte off of S3
15:09	ibdknox	served
15:09	ibdknox	turns out that has moderate cost lol
15:10	muhoo	all i can say is, i hope noir has a bus factor > 1
15:10	dnolen	ibdknox: so we'll warn on clashes, leave param names alone. Fixing CLJS-180 will depend on fixing the analysis order issue first.
15:11	ibdknox	dnolen: analysis order?
15:11	yoklov	dnolen: couldn't you gensym the param names only if there's a clash?
15:11	dnolen	ibdknox: it's pretty random at the moment.
15:11	ibdknox	mm
15:11	muhoo	because the startup bus is coming :-)
15:11	dnolen	ibdknox: analysis doesn't follow requires / uses
15:11	ibdknox	dnolen: ah, yes.
15:12	dnolen	ibdknox: once we do that then we can accurately warn about param name clashes with namespaces
15:12	jonasen	dnolen: this doesn't happen with let, right? (let [foo 1] (x/bar)) should work?
15:12	ibdknox	muhoo: lol, yeah ideally someone will take an interest in helping with a couple of my libs
15:12	dnolen	jonasen: dunno, you should test.
15:13	ibdknox	lets get gensymed
15:13	ibdknox	in cljs
15:13	ibdknox	not in CLJ
15:13	ibdknox	which is wicked confusing
15:13	yoklov	yeah, never seen lets not get gensymmed
15:14	ibdknox	it's a "cleaner" solution to the (let [foo 1 foo (inc foo)] ..) mess I guess
15:14	TimMc	Is there any support in CLJS or some CLJS lib for streaming a seq of data from the server to the client?
15:15	TimMc	That would be killer.
15:15	ibdknox	like over websockets?
15:16	Borkdude	ibdknox: btw, my question was just out of curiosity, not out of criticism
15:16	ibdknox	Borkdude: totally missed your question
15:16	ibdknox	ah
15:16	ibdknox	found it
15:16	Borkdude	ibdknox: question was, what gain is in it for companies investing largely in your product?
15:16	Raynes	Borkdude: I saw you using cljbin recently. Damned traitor, you.
15:17	ibdknox	Borkdude: honestly, it's a gamble. Let's say I manage to pull this off and it ends up big. You would want your company's name attached to it
15:17	Borkdude	Raynes: I am a hedonist. I use whatever comes my way ;).
15:17	TimMc	ibdknox: And they get an IDE.
15:17	ibdknox	For others it's about introducing a new platform where they can try to come out as the "leaders" on it
15:17	ibdknox	and as TimMc just said, many of them actually just want the thing
15:18	Raynes	ibdknox: When you've got a second, I'd like to talk over something I'm doing with you and see what you think.
15:18	mdeboard	15:07 <ibdknox> For others it's about introducing a new platform where they can try to come out as the "leaders" on it <---- this will make it easier for them to attract top candidates as well
15:18	ibdknox	It's one of those pascal's wager moments
15:18	Borkdude	ibdknox: do you think Jetbrains would be interested to invest in it?
15:18	ibdknox	no idea
15:19	ibdknox	I worked with those guys a bit at MSFT
15:19	felideon	they make some nice tools for .NET ppl
15:19	felideon	err
15:19	felideon	sry copy paste
15:20	Borkdude	felideon: actually Jetbrains have made smth nice for .NET too, although I never used it (Resharper)
15:20	felideon	Up Arrow + Enter rather
15:20	ibdknox	I still haven't heard from any of the major players yet :)
15:20	ibdknox	That'll be when things get interesting
15:20	muhoo	ok i almost got it working https://refheap.com/paste/2555 the only problem is that trying to access empty leafs casues an NPE
15:21	mattrepl	a set! on a :volatile-mutable or :unsychronized-mutable field in a deftype method should work when inside a (locking this &body) form, right? I am seeing it work fine outside of a locking form, but ObjExpr throws an exception about the LocalBinding not being mutable.
15:21	felideon	Borkdude: right. actually i almost confused them.
15:21	felideon	glad i'm not in 'that world' anymore :)
15:22	ibdknox	Borkdude: felideon: as I recall resharper is the most commonly used VS plugin
15:22	Borkdude	I had to use Python, and after trying several IDEs I sort of liked Pycharm (Jetbrains) the best
15:22	felideon	yeah it probably is.
15:23	technomancy	http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3929789
15:24	mdeboard	I've been watching a coworker who's new to Python development using WingIDE and it just looks awkward as shit.
15:24	Borkdude	ibdknox: I'm curious about what kinds of refactoring options Light Table will support for clojure, I didn't see anything related to that in the video
15:24	ibdknox	technomancy: never post the direct link
15:24	ibdknox	technomancy: that's how you get ringed
15:24	technomancy	ibdknox: oh dang
15:24	jonasen	dnolen: I think we should gensym {:name (munge name)} here: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/clj/cljs/compiler.clj#L925
15:24	ibdknox	Borkdude: no idea yet :)
15:24	felideon	lispers need no refactoring tool non-sense!
15:24	technomancy	ibdknox: you've been doing this longer than I have apparently =)
15:25	mdeboard	Oh, huh
15:25	mdeboard	That sucks.
15:25	Borkdude	felideon: an example of 5 mins ago: I decided to use require instead of use, with an alias, so I had to manually prefix the alias… could this be automated?
15:25	dnolen	jonasen: I think we should avoid gensym'ing for now - unless somebody gives us a source map patch.
15:26	dnolen	jonasen: CLJS-180 ticket updates pointing to new ticket - fixing require / use analysis order would make warning on clashes pretty easy.
15:26	felideon	Borkdude: sounds like a sed one-liner
15:26	Borkdude	felideon: sed doesn't have any namespace intelligence
15:27	technomancy	Borkdude: slamhound automates that
15:27	Borkdude	Raynes: I'm going to try refheap now
15:27	mdeboard	lol I love your project names
15:28	Raynes	Borkdude: It will eventually have cljbin's evaluation feature (only betters).
15:28	S11001001	technomancy: it's a whole-source transformer now?
15:28	Raynes	Borkdude: But I will not break your face for using cljbin in the meantime if you like that sort of thing.
15:28	Borkdude	Raynes: ah, that's what I like about cljbin, so good
15:28	mdeboard	holy Ffffffff
15:28	mdeboard	@ slamhound
15:28	felideon	technomancy: that's kinda cool
15:28	technomancy	S11001001: oh, no I just misread what he said
15:28	technomancy	S11001001: some day though
15:28	jonasen	dnolen: Is a warning good enough?
15:28	technomancy	if it's implemented as a logic program, you could run it forwards or backwards
15:29	Borkdude	I will check out slamhound now… and see if it worth a "sweet!" or "about time…"
15:29	technomancy	Borkdude: more like, "this will be nice once it's finished..." =)
15:29	dnolen	jonasen: probably not - gensym the specific clashing parameter.
15:29	technomancy	hopefully
15:30	Borkdude	technomancy: as I read the README, it can fix ns declarations, but can it fix code that needs alias prefixing?
15:30	Borkdude	technomancy: once it's finished.. ;)
15:31	technomancy	Borkdude: well that would be more like once it's completely rewritten and transformed into a logic program; I misread your original question
15:32	Borkdude	"extract macro" would be a nice refactoring
15:32	gfredericks	does it remove unneeded requires?
15:32	technomancy	gfredericks: unneeded :require/:as
15:33	technomancy	it won't work if you need a require and use a fully-qualified reference
15:33	felideon	Borkdude: i dont get what's so hard about s\|foo\|x/foo\| or whatever
15:34	felideon	how many symbols do you need to replace
15:34	Borkdude	felideon: not so many, but let me show you… wait a minute
15:36	michaelbarton	What's the correct way to insert a map function into a (-> ...) pipeline?
15:37	jonaskoelker	what's the syntax for variable arity function definitions?
15:37	chouser	michaelbarton: there's no right way. You could use ->> instead, but if you find yourself fighting either one, it's probably better just to use let
15:38	Borkdude	felideon: https://github.com/Borkdude/tictactoe/commit/d5fa8427d9891f6765807ef456b666aa7111f05a test/tictactoe/test/models/model.clj
15:38	jonaskoelker	michaelbarton: I'm not sure I understand your question, but (-> somelist (partial (map my-function)) ...) ?
15:39	chouser	jonaskoelker: you can have multiple fn bodies, each with a different arity (defn f ([a] (prn a)) ([a b] (prn a b)))
15:39	chouser	jonaskoelker: that partial will receive somelist as it's first arg, so probably not what you want.
15:39	brehaut	jonaskoelker: (partial somelist (map … probably wont do what you want
15:39	Borkdude	felideon: I had to type the prefix nine times
15:40	Borkdude	felideon: and it is error prone
15:40	felideon	your poor fingers!
15:40	chouser	jonaskoelker: for varargs, your arg vector can look like [a b & args] in which case args will be nil or a lazy seq
15:40	michaelbarton	I have (-> (first command-line-args) reader line-seq)) and I'd like to do some mapping and filtering on this.?
15:40	chouser	michaelbarton: ->> should work for that
15:40	felideon	Borkdude: that link didnt work
15:40	michaelbarton	Ok
15:41	michaelbarton	What is the difference between the two?
15:41	Borkdude	felideon: it was a link, then a space and then a file name
15:41	mattrepl	yup, there's a bug where try forms don't know about the deftype fields and thus ObjExpr#isMutable returns true and compilation fails
15:41	Borkdude	felideon: so not a link with a space in it
15:41	felideon	Borkdude: ah k
15:41	chouser	->> puts each expr as the last arg of the next expr, instead of the first
15:41	michaelbarton	I see
15:41	michaelbarton	Thank you
15:42	michaelbarton	I will try that.
15:42	jonaskoelker	brehaut: that would be a good point :)
15:42	chouser	so something like (-> (first cla) (reader ,,,) (line-seq ,,,) (map #(do-foo %) ,,,))
15:42	felideon	Borkdude: yeah so, if you had to do this accross thousands of lines of code, a simple script would have done fine
15:42	jonaskoelker	chouser: the first one is exactly what I want. Thank you :)
15:42	chouser	...to use the notation Fogus put in the book
15:42	chouser	jonaskoelker: yw
15:43	Borkdude	felideon: how does the script now what symbols need prefixing?
15:43	Borkdude	know
15:43	felideon	you give it the list.
15:43	Borkdude	felideon: I'm too lazy to make the list. ok ok...
15:43	felideon	yeah i mean comon, you're a programmer. God forbid you have to type.
15:43	felideon	^_^
15:43	jonaskoelker	:D
15:43	Borkdude	=)
15:44	jonaskoelker	it didn't say "typist" on the job offer
15:44	brehaut	wheres tavis rudd when someone delivers a line like that
15:44	amalloy	chouser: you accidentally used -> instead of ->>
15:45	amalloy	making the commas not line up with reality
15:45	michaelbarton	That
15:45	michaelbarton	That
15:45	michaelbarton	That's great.
15:45	michaelbarton	Just what I was looking for.
15:46	michaelbarton	Thank you.
15:47	nollidj	anyone here start a new incanter project (with incanter 1.2.2) lately? i've just created a project.clj and tried to "lein deps" it with leiningen 1.7.1, and lein is complaining that it can't find clojure-contrib 1.2.0-master-SNAPSHOT. sounds to me like incanter really needs updating, but repo.incanter.org says 1.2.2 is the latest stable release.
15:49	tomoj	nollidj: 1.3.0 appears to be released
15:49	nollidj	ah, i'll try updating. thanks.
15:50	ralfonso	did lein interactive disappear in lein2? I'm looking for a way to speed up test runs.
15:52	nollidj	tomoj: did you look at clojars directly to find that out, or are you looking at an incanter project page i haven't found?
15:52	pandeiro	is there any way that cljs.reader/read-string would be able to work with html-escaped data?
15:53	tomoj	clojars
15:53	amalloy	pandeiro: ...un-html-escape it first?
16:00	chouser	amalloy: gah. thanks.
16:21	pandeiro	how can i deal with the :body element of a ring-request when i am serializing/deserializing between clj and cljs?
16:24	gtrak	body's a bytearray, right? I bet you could convert it to a string?
16:25	pandeiro	gtrak: it's one of these: #<Input org.mortbay.jetty.HttpParser$Input@5b506da4>
16:25	mefesto	body is an InputStream which can be put in a string easily like gtrak says
16:26	gtrak	http://jetty.codehaus.org/jetty/jetty-6/apidocs/org/mortbay/jetty/HttpParser.Input.html
16:26	gtrak	extends InputStream
16:27	mefesto	,(doc slurp)
16:27	clojurebot	"([f & opts]); Opens a reader on f and reads all its contents, returning a string. See clojure.java.io/reader for a complete list of supported arguments."
16:29	mefesto	pandeiro: try (slurp (:body request))
16:30	pandeiro	mefesto: great thanks.. is there an assoc-like fn that will convert :body to (slurp ...) in place?
16:31	gtrak	you can make a middleware that adds a :body-str attribute?
16:32	mefesto	pandeiro: i like gtrak's approach better
16:32	gtrak	or does it in place, not sure if that's considered clean
16:32	mefesto	pandeiro: but update-in might do it
16:33	pandeiro	update-in is it, perfect
16:33	beffbernard	If I'm to upgrade to lein2, is there anything special I need to do in my project.clj so emacs/swank-clojure/clojure-jack-in jive together?
16:34	pandeiro	gtrak: i am doing this in middleware, conj'ing each request to an atom that i can inspect from the browser to make debugging a little nicer
16:39	nDuff	I'm playing around with field reflection, and have an object which clojure, at the REPL, simply prints as "int". (type that-thing) returns java.lang.Class... what _is_ it?
16:40	patchwork	Hmmm, jark server install fails because it cannot verify github's certificate?
16:40	patchwork	what is that about?
16:41	amalloy	nDuff: int.class
16:42	amalloy	the Class object representing the JVM primitive type "int"
16:43	nDuff	amalloy: ...what's the canonical way to refer to that class in Clojure?
16:43	amalloy	&Integer/TYPE
16:43	lazybot	⇒ int
16:44	nDuff	graci
16:47	gfredericks	&(prn Integer/TYPE)
16:47	lazybot	⇒ int nil
16:47	technomancy	beffbernard: you just need to declare lein-swank as a user-level plugin in ~/.lein/profiles.clj
16:47	technomancy	I think it's covered in the swank readme
16:52	beffbernard	technomancy: swank readme or lein wiki?
16:52	beffbernard	like this? {:user {:plugins [[lein-swank "1.4.4"]]} ; ~/.lein/profiles.clj
16:53	technomancy	yeah
16:55	beffbernard	If I want to use the name lein2 instead of lein.. Do I (setq clojure-swank-command "lein2 jack-in %s") ?
16:55	technomancy	that should do the trick
16:56	mebaran151	if I concat two map statements (say they both map over results from a REST API that they have to GET), will the second map statement evaluate its arguments immediately or only when I exhaust the list from the first call to map
16:56	ieure	Is there a convenient way to decompile things in Clojure?
16:56	ieure	e.g.
16:56	ieure	I want to load up a class which I didn't write and dump its bytecode in the repl
16:59	beffbernard	technomancy: perfect
17:02	aaelony	what's the best way to provide a file chooser via clojurescript? I'm googling around without much success...
17:04	gfredericks	aaelony: like the regular built-in browser upload form?
17:04	aaelony	gfredericks: exactly, yes.
17:05	dnolen	brainproxy: I'm assuming your Michael Bradley? Mind not spamming the #clojurescript Twitter stream with turbonode? :)
17:05	gfredericks	aaelony: isn't that just [:input {:type "file"}]? or something close to that?
17:06	aaelony	gfredericks: thanks! I'll try that. Just learning... :)
17:06	gfredericks	oh no prob
17:08	dnolen	mmarczyk: ping
17:08	mmarczyk	dnolen: pong
17:09	aaelony	gfredericks: that's amazing. Works like a charm. :)
17:09	dnolen	mmarczyk: how much are you planning on digging into CLJS-235?
17:09	gfredericks	is there a standard clojure/java mechanims for running some code X seconds later without hogging a thread the whole time?
17:10	aaelony	delay ??
17:10	lazybot	aaelony: What are you, crazy? Of course not!
17:10	aaelony	funny
17:10	mmarczyk	dnolen: well, so far I've got a patch with replacement first / rest that seems to be a clear win in the ISeq case
17:10	gfredericks	aaelony: if you mean the clojure function, that's not what I'm talking about
17:10	aaelony	ok
17:10	mmarczyk	dnolen: could post that on the ticket with some cleanup and a proper commit message, actually
17:10	Chousuke	gfredericks: there's probably a java api for that
17:11	mmarczyk	dnolen: and apart from that -- a preliminary bit-and-based version of satisfies? which doesn't seem to be a win on node, so needs work
17:12	dnolen	mmarczyk: go ahead and do that if you have a second - I'm thinking about starting branch called rt-cljs where we can do this work.
17:12	gfredericks	Chousuke: ooh, java.util.Timer
17:12	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok
17:13	dnolen	mmarczyk: thx!
17:13	mmarczyk	dnolen: as for your actual question, which time frame did you have in mind? I'll probably need to go a little slower over the weekend, but that seems to be the most promising direction of cljs work, so I'd like to dig quit a lot eventually
17:14	mmarczyk	^dig into it
17:14	brainproxy	dnolen: yes ... wasn't aware it was spamming it
17:14	brainproxy	???
17:14	lazybot	brainproxy: How could that be wrong?
17:14	dnolen	mmarczyk: yes that's why I'm suggesting a branch for this work instead of ticket.
17:14	mmarczyk	dnolen: ah, right
17:14	mmarczyk	ok, making the patch now, be back in a sec
17:15	brainproxy	dnolen: is their a bot or something keying on mentions of clojurescript?
17:16	dnolen	brainproxy: http://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/clojurescript
17:16	hiredman	gfredericks: :(
17:16	brainproxy	dnolen: okay, i've turned off the github hook that posts to my dev stream
17:16	dnolen	brainproxy: thanks much
17:16	hiredman	gfredericks: you mean you need to use a scheduledthreadpoolexecutor
17:16	brainproxy	dnolen: sure thing, didn't realize it would cause a problem
17:16	hiredman	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/409932/java-timer-vs-executorservice
17:16	Chousuke	the kingdom of nouns :P
17:16	gfredericks	hiredman: aw crap
17:17	cemerick	gfredericks: if you're ever going outside of java.util.concurrent for…concurrency stuff…your spidey sense should tingle. :-)
17:17	brainproxy	dnolen: btw, I realized I was being a dummy .. the bootstrap and compile scripts in clojure-clojurescript/script/ were all I needed to use as part of my npm postinstall routines, rather than keeping my own copy of clojure sources and whatnot checked-in
17:17	hiredman	https://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/blob/master/src/hiredman/schedule.clj
17:17	hiredman	decentish, but not great
17:18	dnolen	brainproxy: so things are working for you now?
17:18	brainproxy	dnolen: sort of ... add-dependencies is working, but optimize is complaining about a null pointer
17:18	brainproxy	and I don't want stuff to go to disk, just want the whole string in memory ... I'll figure it out
17:18	brainproxy	anyway, getting much closer :)
17:19	hiredman	ideally you'd want a scheduled thread pool on top of clojure's existing threadpools
17:21	mmarczyk	dnolen: just posted the patch -- NB. I've skipped the second nil check (after calling seq in the non-ISeq case)
17:21	gfredericks	burgle...
17:22	dnolen	mmarczyk: the mask patch isn't based on master tho right?
17:22	mmarczyk	dnolen: ah, no
17:22	dnolen	mmarczyk: I still see the hasOwnProperty test.
17:22	mmarczyk	dnolen: yeah, that's the WIP patch -- out of date
17:23	mmarczyk	dnolen: the first / rest patch seems like a win for ISeqs even with the current satisfies -- > 20 ms -> ~15 ms for first / rest on lists
17:24	dnolen	mmarczyk: yeah makes sense.
17:26	solussd	can I use #_ yet? ::D
17:26	solussd	err
17:26	solussd	#=
17:27	dnolen	mmarczyk: I've created a rt-cljs branch in my fork, if you track we can stay in sync.
17:27	mmarczyk	dnolen: yeah, I've noticed -- will track
17:30	dnolen	mmarczyk: so I take the satisfies? work is flux so you can't make a patch?
17:30	dnolen	is in flux
17:31	mmarczyk	dnolen: hm, yeah, atm -- but I can probably polish it a bit so you can take it for a test ride tonight
17:31	dnolen	mmarczyk: please do, I'll apply that to rt-cljs.
17:32	gfredericks	you guys are so dang productive
17:32	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, will do that in an hour or two I guess -- got to go away for a moment now
17:32	cbp`	hello, is there like a for where the sequences are traversed in parallel
17:33	dnolen	mmarczyk: great, thx!
17:33	gfredericks	cbp`: like ##(map vector (range) [:foo :bar :baz] "hahaha foo") ?
17:33	lazybot	⇒ ([0 :foo \h] [1 :bar \a] [2 :baz \h])
17:34	dnolen	yoklov: haha, your latest project sounds fun.
17:35	cbp`	yes
17:35	gfredericks	hiredman: thanks for the example, that helped
17:35	yoklov	dnolen: haha, thanks, it's been quite fun so far
17:35	cbp`	but i want to bind it to a symbol
17:36	gfredericks	cbp`: you can use that within for
17:36	gfredericks	&(for [[a b c] (map vector (range) [:foo :bar :baz] "hahaha foo")] {:a a :b b :see c})
17:36	lazybot	⇒ ({:a 0, :b :foo, :see \h} {:a 1, :b :bar, :see \a} {:a 2, :b :baz, :see \h})
17:37	cbp`	oh ok
17:37	cbp`	thanks
17:42	mebaran151	is flatten lazy?
17:42	gfredericks	$source flatten
17:42	lazybot	flatten is http://is.gd/WWBDNQ
17:43	hiredman	~flatten
17:43	clojurebot	flatten is rarely the right answer. Suppose you need to use a list as your "base type", for example. Usually you only want to flatten a single level, and in that case you're better off with concat. Or, better still, use mapcat to produce a sequence that's shaped right to begin with.
17:43	mebaran151	I'm actually looking for mapcat
17:44	gfredericks	mebaran151: flatten looks lazy
17:45	amalloy	in the sense that if you use it, it's because you were too lazy to find the right function?
17:45	amalloy	(but yes, it is lazy)
17:46	mebaran151	hiredma pointed me to mapcat, which was exactly what I needed
17:46	amalloy	clojurebot: high five!
17:46	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
17:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: just realized that I could post a patch for satisfies? using the general approach of the original WIP patch (no partitions yet) but with your improvements to satisfies? in place -- so that's attached to the ticket now -- next up, partitions-based patch
17:57	dnolen	mmarczyk: great thanks.
17:57	mmarczyk	ok, bbl
18:00	nDuff	What am I doing wrong when trying to use (into {} (partition 2 [:a :b :c :d]))?
18:02	gfredericks	&(into {} (partition 2 [:a :b
18:02	gfredericks	:c :d]))
18:02	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading, starting at line 1
18:02	gfredericks	(into {} (partition 2 [:a :b :c :d]))
18:02	gfredericks	paste fail
18:02	gfredericks	&(into {} (partition 2 [:a :b :c :d]))
18:02	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Keyword cannot be cast to java.util.Map$Entry
18:02	gfredericks	&(partition 2 [:a :b :c :d])
18:02	lazybot	⇒ ((:a :b) (:c :d))
18:03	gfredericks	&(into {} [[:a :b] [:c :d]])
18:03	lazybot	⇒ {:a :b, :c :d}
18:03	gfredericks	&(into {} ['(:a :b) '(:c :d)])
18:03	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Keyword cannot be cast to java.util.Map$Entry
18:03	gfredericks	&(into {} (map vec (partition 2 [:a :b :c :d])))
18:03	lazybot	⇒ {:a :b, :c :d}
18:03	gfredericks	hm
18:04	gfredericks	I can't think of why it would act that way
18:04	gfredericks	but apparently it likes vectors
18:04	amalloy	gfredericks: conj on maps has a stupid contract
18:05	gfredericks	welp. there you go.
18:05	gfredericks	it is stupid because a slightly lower-level thing is stupid.
18:06	amalloy	and of course it's an implicit contract, which you can only figure out by reading the source
18:06	gfredericks	it is hard to write good software.
18:07	yoklov	that's not a bug?
18:07	gfredericks	&(conj {} '(3 4))
18:07	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to java.util.Map$Entry
18:08	gfredericks	yoklov: do you know of any docs saying ^that should work?
18:09	yoklov	no, but it seems like it should i guess
18:09	yoklov	regardless you can still do
18:09	yoklov	,(apply hashmap [:a :b :c :d])
18:09	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: hashmap in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
18:09	yoklov	:(
18:09	gfredericks	oh I forget about that one
18:10	yoklov	,(apply hash-map '(:a :b :c :d))
18:10	clojurebot	{:a :b, :c :d}
18:10	yoklov	nDuff: you can go about it that way
18:11	nDuff	Ahh; graci
18:58	cbp`	ughhh traversing vectors so different from other languages
18:58	cbp`	i'm so confused
18:59	cbp`	can't recur from inside doseq/for right
19:00	wkmanire	cbp`: One of the things I'm learning is that a lot of the time where you would want to traverse a vector in an imperative language, in clojure you really just want to map it or reduce it.
19:00	wkmanire	Basically perform some kind of transformation on the data
19:00	wkmanire	The other day I was using nth for example where I ended up being able to use destructuring.
19:01	technomancy	justified uses of loop/recur are very rare
19:01	cbp`	say if i'm traversing a vector of vectors and for every "special" value i find i need to do something to the rest of the matrix can i do that with maps/filters/etc
19:02	antares_	cbp`: you certainly can filter out "special" entries and do something with them. Do you need to modify the coll?
19:02	dnolen	mmarczyk: ping
19:02	kovasb__	cbp`: the function way to do it is to first find all the special values (maybe including their position)
19:03	kovasb__	cbp`: and then do the needed transformation
19:03	kovasb__	cbp`: with another function
19:03	kovasb__	cbp`: if you are more specific in the transformation you want to do, maybe theres another approach
19:03	cbp`	basically im
19:04	cbp`	have you played the board game connect four
19:04	kovasb__	nope :)
19:04	cbp`	imagine you can turn it 90 degrees so that the pieces fall to the side
19:04	jodaro	pretty sneaky sis!
19:04	cbp`	well you drop pieces on stacks
19:05	cbp`	so basically im representing that with a vector of vectors and rotating and then making the pieces "fall" to the ground
19:06	wkmanire	cbp`: I read a really interesting article today in Cemerick's book about representing Conway's game of life different.
19:06	wkmanire	It is one of thos vector intensive type problems in most languages.
19:06	wkmanire	Instead, Cemerick represents the game board as a collection of tuples of live cells.
19:06	wkmanire	Instead of using a vector of vectors.
19:07	wkmanire	The final solution ended up being very elegant. I wonder if you could take the same approach.
19:07	cbp`	well maybe
19:07	cbp`	its just that i need to wrap my head around this really fast because its for a timed contest
19:07	wkmanire	myBoard == ([1 1] [2 2]) ;; I have pieces at 1,1 and 2,2.
19:07	cbp`	and i understand the problem in terms of matrices very easily and can do it very easily in python
19:07	kovasb__	cbp`: ive done stuff like that, it just write a function to identify the positions of the places of interest
19:08	kovasb__	cbp`: and then feed that into another function that takes the current state, those positions, and gives the new state
19:08	emezeske	cbp`: In your vector of vectors, are the inner fectors columns or rows?
19:10	cbp`	its something very literally like this:
19:10	cbp`	[[. . .]
19:10	cbp`	[. x .]
19:10	cbp`	[x x x]
19:10	cbp`	[x x x]]
19:10	cbp`	so i rotate and it should give this:
19:10	cbp`	[[. . .]
19:10	cbp`	[x x .]
19:10	cbp`	[x x .]
19:10	cbp`	[x x x]
19:11	cbp`	uhm assume its square and top row doesnt exist ^^
19:11	emezeske	cbp`: understood
19:11	emezeske	cbp`: Given the nature of the game, where gravity affects columns, I might suggest making the inner vectors columns
19:12	emezeske	cbp`: Then you could do something like (map apply-gravity matrix)
19:12	cbp`	yeah i guess thanks
19:13	amalloy	emezeske: i don't think that matters much, because when you rotate the board it "switches"
19:13	amalloy	so if you used row-major format, you could apply-gravity then transpose, and in column-major you could transpose then apply-gravity
19:13	emezeske	Yeah that's true
19:14	emezeske	Makes more sense to me to rotate and then apply gravity, though, although it really doesn't matter
19:14	jayunit100	hi guys -> this method has a weird siganture : http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=4AW2j1Ad.
19:14	amalloy	yeah, and when you're not actively rotating it's probably better to go column-major
19:15	emezeske	cbp`: Another hint: something like this might be useful for apply-gravity (concat (repeat 3 "x") (repeat 1 "."))
19:15	amalloy	actually, perhaps it's best to have a board like [[a b c] [d e f] [g h i]], where a is the bottom-left and c is the top-left?
19:15	amalloy	ie, column-major but bottom-first? it seems like that helps somehow
19:16	emezeske	amalloy: I could see that making the gravity reduce easier maybe?
19:16	amalloy	right
19:16	amalloy	i'm not sure how, but it feels like it will
19:16	emezeske	I'd probably just go quick & easy and just count the chips, and do the concat repeat thing I pasted above
19:16	emezeske	Not very elegant though
19:17	amalloy	(defn apply-gravity [column] (apply concat ((juxt filter remove) piece? column)))
19:18	emezeske	Nice!
19:18	emezeske	I love juxt...
19:18	cbp`	don't need elegant =p need something i can think up and implement in 10 minutes
19:22	jayunit100	rephrase question :) -> how can you have a defn with 2 [] []s after it ? I've never seen such syntax before.
19:23	emezeske	jayunit100: The first [] specifies the arguments, the second [] is the body of the function
19:23	cbp`	returns empty vector?
19:23	emezeske	jayunit100: In other words, the function returns a vector
19:23	jayunit100	Oh i guess the ( is only needed if we want to eval.
19:23	emezeske	jayunit100: (defn [] [1 2 3]) would be like (defn [] (vector 1 2 3))
19:24	jayunit100	aha yup/ not thinking very clojurely. my bad been in java ee world all day 2day
19:24	emezeske	:)
19:29	dnolen	muahahaha
19:30	dnolen	CLJS satisfies? call is faster than JS instanceof on V8
19:30	amalloy	nice
19:34	wkmanire	Alas, my time has not yet come.
19:34	emezeske	dnolen: That's just ridiculous
19:34	amalloy	dnolen: was satisfies? using instanceof before? i didn't think js had multiple inheritance, and you were just looking up some method with a funky name in the prototype
19:35	dnolen	amalloy: satisifes? was looking up the prototype chain before.
19:36	dnolen	emezeske: amalloy: >2X faster :D
19:36	dreish	p3i.P3i cannot be cast to p3i.P3i [Thrown class java.lang.ClassCastException]. Oooooookay ...
19:36	dnolen	than instanceof
19:36	dnolen	>10X faster than old satisfies?
19:36	ibdknox	dnolen: Good work!
19:37	dnolen	ibdknox: yes this is big.
19:37	amalloy	does satisfies? actually end up getting used at all? shouldn't most of those tests wind up being polymorphic dispatch?
19:37	wkmanire	dnolen: I totally misread your first statement.
19:38	dnolen	amalloy: polymorphic dispatch is relatively slow
19:38	dnolen	amalloy: we want to test membership to avoid hitting protocols when possible.
19:38	wkmanire	I thought "CLSJ satisfies?" was a proposition. Didn't realize you were refering to a function.
19:38	ibdknox	lol
19:38	dnolen	wkmanire: satisifes? is actually a macro ;0
19:39	dnolen	oops
19:40	wkmanire	I like having punctuation be valid in symbol names, but sometimes I get hung up on it when I'm reading.
19:40	amalloy	oh i see. so you can actually expand to the bit-test at compile time
19:40	wkmanire	My internal syntax parser wants to reverify it several times.
19:40	dnolen	amalloy: yep
19:40	dreish	I think I might have found it, in case anyone saw my confounding error message above. After recompiling p3i.clj (which has a defrecord P3i), I needed to redo (import 'p3i.P3i) at the repl.
19:40	dnolen	amalloy: satisfies? is not a function call - never was.
19:40	amalloy	dnolen: is it really a macro, or a function with a compiler-macro around it? i can imagine wanting to do like (filter (partial satisfies? Counted) ...)
19:41	dnolen	amalloy: satisfies? won't be a function anytime soon.
19:42	scottj	lein question: do :jvm-opts of dependencies apply or just the main project.clj?
19:42	hiredman	dnolen: maybe a canidate for something like definline ?
19:42	amalloy	is there a reason for that? it seems like a level of dynamism that there's no reason to reject
19:43	dnolen	hiredman: well CLJS doesn't have definline
19:43	amalloy	it has compiler macros though, right?
19:43	hiredman	you can't just lift the definline macro from core.clj?
19:43	dnolen	amalloy: yes
19:44	dnolen	hiredman: there's no need with compiler macros really.
19:44	dnolen	amalloy: now that I think about - now that protocol mask exists, yes satisfies can be function :)
19:44	hiredman	dnolen: if you want something to be like a macro and like a function?
19:45	dnolen	hiredman: define the function, define the compiler macro w/ the same name.
19:45	hiredman	ah
19:55	muhoo	this is where not having a cs degree is a huge limitation for me, but, how would i walk a tree and get a list of the parents for each leaf node? functionally (i know how to do it imperatively, easily)
19:56	mmarczyk	dnolen: pong
19:56	wkmanire	muhoo: Still working on your new category structure?
19:56	muhoo	ya, that one
19:57	dnolen	mmarczyk: so bit mask protocol test is fast - very, very fast :)
19:57	wkmanire	Do you want just the parents? Or you do you want the leaf and it's parents?
19:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: hah! great :-)
19:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: do you mean my WIP patch or did you write another impl?
19:57	muhoo	what i ultimately want is a structure like [leaf [parent grandparent greatgrandparent]]
19:58	wkmanire	So you want the whole branch from root to leaf.
19:58	muhoo	for each of the leaves, yes
19:58	muhoo	postwalk is great, but i haven't figured out how to SAVE the values, without resorting to atoms and such
19:58	gfredericks	muhoo: I think it'd be pretty simple to define recursively
19:59	wkmanire	muhoo: Whatever you end up doing to solve this, I'd like to see the solution if you don't mind.
19:59	dnolen	mmarczyk: there a couple problems
19:59	muhoo	sure thing, it'd be a nice generic library thing
19:59	dnolen	mmarczyk: bool type inference needed fixing
19:59	wkmanire	My puny FP brain sais create a seq out of the branch and then flatten it to an array.
19:59	gfredericks	(fn parents-map [tree] (if (leaf? tree) {tree []} ...))
19:59	wkmanire	rather, a vector.
19:59	wkmanire	says*
19:59	dnolen	mmarczyk: needed a bit-and that won't trigger truth test
19:59	dnolen	mmarczyk: and needed an or around bit test and prototype chain lookup
20:00	dnolen	"there were a couple of problems" I mean.
20:00	mmarczyk	dnolen: right
20:00	muhoo	gfredericks: where's the leaf? function?
20:00	clojurebot	functions are maps
20:00	mmarczyk	dnolen: oh, so you got around the truth_ in satisfies? then?
20:00	mmarczyk	dnolen: fantastic :-)
20:00	dnolen	mmarczyk: no truth_ in satisfies? anymore
20:00	mmarczyk	dnolen: :-D
20:00	gfredericks	muhoo: depends on exactly how your tree is represented
20:01	gfredericks	muhoo: when you say you want the parents, is a parent a whole subtree or just the root node of the subtree?
20:01	dnolen	mmarczyk: all the changes are in my CLJS fork, rt-cljs branch
20:01	muhoo	[node [subnode [subsubnode1 subsubnode2] subnode2]
20:01	muhoo	gfredericks: i'm looking for the path
20:01	muhoo	so, for subsubnode1 above, i'd want [subsubnode1 [subnode node]]
20:01	mmarczyk	dnolen: looking at it now
20:02	gfredericks	muhoo: okay so
20:03	muhoo	of [subnode1 [node subnode]] . i know how to use reverse :-)
20:03	dnolen	mmarczyk: k, so I'm seeing a 2X perf boost on first on lists.
20:03	muhoo	or
20:03	mmarczyk	dnolen: hm, so how are you measuring this?
20:03	dnolen	mmarczyk: w/ node
20:03	mmarczyk	dnolen: https://gist.github.com/2598523 <- my simplistic benchmark "suite"
20:04	mmarczyk	dnolen: running cljsc on that w/ :opt :adv, then node timings.js
20:04	gfredericks	muhoo: hold on gonna make a paste
20:04	mmarczyk	dnolen: ...and then totally misreading the output, lol
20:04	mmarczyk	dnolen: yeah, I'm seeing a huge perf boost too :-d
20:04	mmarczyk	:-D, that is
20:05	gfredericks	wtf refheap.com gives a cert error?
20:05	ibdknox	Raynes: ^
20:05	gfredericks	Raynes u can haz hax0r
20:05	dnolen	mmarczyk: :)
20:05	Raynes	gfredericks: I'm currently working on moving to Heroku.
20:05	mmarczyk	dnolen: though actually the win seems to be there on master
20:05	Raynes	gfredericks: Could you tell me exactly what it is telling you?
20:06	mmarczyk	dnolen: with your satisfies? fix
20:06	Raynes	My dns is cached, so I'm kinda screwed.
20:06	gfredericks	Raynes: pm
20:08	muhoo	refheap works, i shrugged and added exception to the ssl error
20:08	Raynes	muhoo: Yeah, but it shouldn't happen. Working it out.
20:08	gfredericks	muhoo: https://gist.github.com/2598613
20:08	mmarczyk	dnolen: oh, you haven't applied the first/rest patch on the branch then?
20:09	dnolen	mmarczyk: not yet no, you really want to do what I said in the ticket, and not what you did in your patch.
20:09	muhoo	Raynes: oh, smells like phish too. hmm, glad you're tracking that
20:09	mmarczyk	dnolen: with the extra nil check you mean?
20:09	dnolen	mmarczyk: yes
20:10	muhoo	getpersonas? uh huh.
20:10	Raynes	muhoo: It's just a DNS problem.
20:10	dnolen	mmarczyk: otherwise you slow down the nil path.
20:10	mmarczyk	dnolen: I suppose, though I couldn't measure much of a difference
20:10	dnolen	mmarczyk: calling a protocol fn should basically be last resort.
20:10	dnolen	mmarczyk: if you have nil return nil, don't waste time calling a protocol fn.
20:10	muhoo	oh np
20:10	dnolen	mmarczyk: nil is slow, because you can't even handle that null via a JS prototype
20:11	Raynes	muhoo: Does refheap.com redirect to www.refheap.com?
20:11	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, about satisfies? -- are you seeing a speedup on rt-cljs vs. current master?
20:12	muhoo	Raynes: curl -i refheap.com => Location: https://refheap.com/
20:12	dnolen	speedup for what? satisfies?
20:12	mmarczyk	yeah
20:12	muhoo	ah, curl -i https://refheap.com => SSL: certificate subject name '*.heroku.com' does not match target host name 'refheap.com'
20:12	muhoo	that's it
20:12	dnolen	marchdown: satisfies? on master for 1e6 takes >100ms, for 1e6 on rt-cljs ~10ms
20:13	gfredericks	muhoo: come on man tell me how much you love my codez
20:13	muhoo	i'm stunned by your codez, gfredericks
20:13	gfredericks	phew
20:14	muhoo	i'm testing it now, hope to see if it works, but i'm inclinded to take some time to try to digest it
20:14	muhoo	gfredericks: wow, and it does, perfectly.
20:15	mmarczyk	dnolen: wow, I'm seeing a speedup alright at huge iteration counts, but nowhere near 10x
20:15	muhoo	how the hell??? it's going to take me a while to understand that :-)
20:15	gfredericks	w00p
20:15	Raynes	I think I know what's going on. I've pointed refheap.com to heroku and the ssl cert doesn't like that at all. The canonical host now will be www.refheap.com (which should be working fine, btw, as long as your DNS is up-to-date), but I think I'm going to have to add a redirect on my own server.
20:15	Raynes	Can somebody confirm www.refheap.com gives no SSL whining?
20:16	muhoo	Raynes: still whining, according to curl
20:16	gfredericks	muhoo: think of it from the perspective of any internal node; if you know the paths up to all your children, you know the paths up to yourself are just those paths plus yourself (i.e. the conj)
20:16	muhoo	gfredericks: it's great code, in particular because it uses stuff i'm well familiar with. and yet, i really need to study it
20:17	gfredericks	recursion and trees are well familiar with each other
20:17	amalloy	gfredericks: doesn't that only work if all the tree elements are unique?
20:17	muhoo	hehee, and here comes amalloy preparing rev 2.0 of it :-)
20:17	muhoo	which will be 1 line and have 3 symbols
20:18	mmarczyk	dnolen: 1e7 iterations of (satisfies? ISeq coll), where coll is a list created outside of the timed block: ~265 ms -> ~250 ms
20:18	gfredericks	amalloy: yeah, I forgot he didn't specify a map
20:18	gfredericks	muhoo: so if they're not unique then you can't use a map, but I think the other version would be about as simple
20:19	mmarczyk	dnolen: could you paste the code you use for timings somewhere? I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with my timings
20:19	dnolen	mmarczyk: avoid advanced optimizations for now, use simple + static-fns true
20:19	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, trying that now
20:19	Raynes	muhoo: www.refheap.com, not refheap.com
20:20	mmarczyk	dnolen: ...and all of a sudden the satisfies? test takes 5x as long on master, advanced compilation must have been doing something
20:20	dnolen	mmarczyk: yep
20:20	dnolen	mmarczyk: it's important to look at the generated code
20:21	dnolen	mmarczyk: advanced opts often just eliminates the work.
20:21	Raynes	I just switched DNS providers (google's dns is up to date), and refheap.com is the only host giving SSL warnings. www.refheap.com should work fine, and refheap.com should redirect to www.refheap.com after you accept the evil SSL. So, I should be right in that just adding a redirect on my own server should work, so I'm going to do that.
20:21	dnolen	mmarczyk: esp. if it's simple
20:21	dnolen	mmarczyk: I mean simple work
20:21	gfredericks	muhoo: I think just change {tree []} to [[tree []]] and use concat instead of merge and screw the (into {})
20:21	Raynes	Also, sorry for clogging up the channel with this stuff, it's just you guys are the only people I know who use the site. :p
20:22	gfredericks	Raynes: wrong channel, please move the conversation to #refheap-dns
20:22	Raynes	gfredericks: :p
20:22	muhoo	Raynes: www.refheap.com is working, no whining
20:22	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, what I'm seeing now is literally unbelievable
20:22	mmarczyk	dnolen: :-D
20:22	Raynes	muhoo: Great, then I can fix this!
20:22	Raynes	Bear with me boys and girls.
20:22	dnolen	mmarczyk: ;)
20:23	mmarczyk	dnolen: right, so I guess I'll be putting the finishing touches on the partitioned proto masks now :-)
20:23	dnolen	mmarczyk: excellent
20:23	mmarczyk	dnolen: do you want a patch on the ticket for that or a commit in my fork?
20:23	muhoo	gfredericks: amalloy: they are unique, so no problem there
20:23	dnolen	mmarczyk: just work on your fork
20:23	dnolen	mmarczyk: and I'll pull your changes.
20:24	mmarczyk	dnolen: cool
20:24	muhoo	i'm working on figuring out if i can mod it to give me parents for the intermediate nodes too, not just the leaves. just to see if i really understand it
20:25	pandeiro	anyone noticed weird double retrieval of resources with noir/cljs-template?
20:27	mmarczyk	dnolen: just pushed first/rest with the second nil check
20:31	muhoo	gfredericks: well i knew enough to replace (apply (concat (map .. with mapcat :-)
20:31	gfredericks	wuhoo mapcat
20:32	Raynes	Okay guys, refheap.com is still going to fail until DNS propagates and then it should point back to my server and my nginx rewrite takes effect. The canonical domain is www.refheap.com now anyways, so you can just use that. Sorry for any inconveniences.
20:33	Raynes	The reason this happened was because I didn't realize you had to use subdomains with SSL on Heroku, and they frown on naked domains. I pulled the trigger a little too quickly. ;)
20:34	muhoo	i see where i got stuck. i was trying to figure out how to do it with recur. advanced tco mojo was not necessary and was just confusing me
20:34	muhoo	(not (= recur recursion))
20:34	gfredericks	yeah tco gets thwarted whenever you want to recur more than once
20:49	zakwilson_	http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3927891 <-- node.js clone for the JVM. Is this a cargo cult?
20:53	jtoy	how do I get all the urls from a string? I am trying something like : (re-find #"^http://\S+" "http://asdasd.com asdasd http://google.com")
20:54	gfredericks	jtoy: and you're only getting the first one? because of the ^?
20:54	amalloy	re-seq
20:54	gfredericks	oh right
20:54	gfredericks	that too
20:54	jtoy	oh cool
20:54	gfredericks	amalloy always fixes my answers
20:54	Raynes	&(re-seq #"^http://\S+" "http://asdasd.com asdasd http://google.com
20:54	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string
20:54	Raynes	&(re-seq #"^http://\S+" "http://asdasd.com asdasd http://google.com")
20:54	lazybot	⇒ ("http://asdasd.com")
20:54	amalloy	it's okay, i wouldn't have noticed the ^ issue
20:54	Raynes	Me either.
20:54	amalloy	evidently
20:55	jtoy	&(re-seq #"http://\S+" "http://asdasd.com asdasd http://google.com")
20:55	lazybot	⇒ ("http://asdasd.com" "http://google.com")
20:55	zakwilson	URLs are used for protocols that aren't HTTP. It's fine if you don't care about that, but be aware.
20:56	gfredericks	tincan://
20:58	mmarczyk	dnolen: almost done on the partition-based patch -- seeing a speedup of 2x :-)
20:59	mmarczyk	dnolen: (first/rest on a list)
20:59	dnolen	mmarczyk: yep that's basically what I'm seeing.
21:00	mmarczyk	dnolen: right, and now the same thing should be possible for all core protocols :-)
21:05	jayunit100	Exception messages and handling could be improved in clj.. hope soon :] .. would be cool if we could contribute exception messages without being official "contributors" somehow.
21:06	mmarczyk	dnolen: apparently it breaks the (= () (rest nil)) test, though -- looking into it
21:09	gfredericks	swank-clojure assumes I am a male
21:12	mmarczyk	dnolen: hm, it's the first/rest patch that is breaking the test -- not sure what's going on
21:12	mmarczyk	dnolen: ohhhh wait
21:12	dnolen	mmarczyk: yes we'll have to be careful to preserve the various invariants.
21:13	mmarczyk	dnolen: just realized that (rest nil) is probably meant to be ()
21:13	dnolen	mmarczyk: yep
21:13	mmarczyk	dnolen: fixing that now
21:13	dnolen	mmarczyk: RT.java more
21:13	mmarczyk	yeah
21:18	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, just pushed rt-cljs to my fork w/ partitioned protocol masks and first/rest
21:25	dnolen	mmarczyk: merged, please merge from my fork.
21:25	dnolen	mmarczyk: first on List getting reasonable
21:26	mmarczyk	dnolen: :-)
21:26	dnolen	mmarczyk: first on PV crazy slow :)
21:27	mmarczyk	dnolen: yeah :-(
21:27	mmarczyk	dnolen: that does take a hit
21:28	dnolen	mmarczyk: probably just needs looking into.
21:28	mmarczyk	dnolen: yes
21:30	mmarczyk	dnolen: first on vector is 6x slower than first on list in Clojure, though
21:30	mmarczyk	dnolen: which is not a problem in practice :-)
21:30	dnolen	mmarczyk: yeah
21:31	mmarczyk	dnolen: so clearly this is a huge win -- I really had to see it to believe it
21:31	mmarczyk	dnolen: fantastic idea!
21:31	mmarczyk	the speedup on satisfies is ridiculous
21:31	dnolen	mmarczyk: yes :) there's quite a bit of work left to do.
21:31	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, so what are the next steps?
21:31	dnolen	mmarczyk: V8 is awesome but I think we'll find that it leaves much to be desired compared to the JVM
21:32	dnolen	mmarczyk: inlining is not nearly so aggressive on V8 as the JVM.
21:33	dnolen	mmarczyk: next steps I think are going through RT.java and seeing which fundamental fns could benefit from RT.java style.
21:34	mmarczyk	dnolen: there's a bunch of functions which just call through to the proto method
21:34	mmarczyk	dnolen: seq on non-nil, conj
21:34	dnolen	mmarczyk: we should apply your patches to remove the extend-type default
21:35	mmarczyk	dnolen: they should apply cleanly, I think
21:36	dnolen	mmarczyk: where possible we should try to avoid calling protocol dispatch on nil I think.
21:36	mmarczyk	dnolen: inline the impls on nil by hand, basically?
21:37	brweber2	Does anyone know if a clojurescript book is in the works? Is it stable enough to publish something?
21:37	dnolen	mmarczyk: now that I think bout that we should do that last
21:37	mmarczyk	dnolen: I think there might be some spots in core where -methods are used directly in a way which would then not be nil-safe, but I'm not sure; will go and check
21:39	TimMc	jayunit100: Are you familiar with (pst) in the REPL?
21:39	TimMc	jayunit100: Or do you mean the error messages themselves?
21:39	dnolen	mmarczyk: next & seq probably should involve some thinking how to optimize they are critical.
21:39	mmarczyk	dnolen: what do you think about next? any way to avoid that seq call? (can't just check for ISeq, since LazySeq implements that too)
21:39	dnolen	mmarczyk: another one is handling of EmptyList
21:39	mmarczyk	dnolen: right
21:40	dnolen	mmarczyk: EmptyList in Clojure on JVM is not ASeq
21:40	mmarczyk	dnolen: no, but it implements ISeq
21:41	dnolen	mmarczyk: but I wonder if we shouldn't have ASeq as a marker protocol
21:41	mmarczyk	dnolen: with what semantics?
21:41	pandeiro	ibdknox: is there a known bug with noir.server/add-middleware (1.3b3)? my logging fn shows everything getting requested twice when i add it with add-middleware, but not when i create the handler manually
21:42	dnolen	mmarczyk: ASeq is ISeq sans EmptyList?
21:42	dnolen	mmarczyk: no need to rush this stuff :) I'm about to call it quits soon.
21:42	mmarczyk	dnolen: LazySeqs might or might not be empty though, so it couldn't carry a non-empty guarantee
21:42	mmarczyk	dnolen: sure
21:43	mmarczyk	dnolen: I wonder if next could somehow handle lazy seqs specially -- only calling seq on them -- without taking too much of a hit from the extra tests
21:44	mmarczyk	dnolen: ILazySeq marker?
21:44	dnolen	mmarczyk: why not just (instance? LazySeq x)
21:44	mmarczyk	dnolen: hm, yeah, there will be no other impl
21:45	amalloy	dnolen: that loses the generality/extensibility of the languages. now nobody else can implement their own "flavor" of lazy seqs, right? you've hardcoded special behavior to the existing impl
21:45	amalloy	eg, chunked seqs
21:45	mmarczyk	dnolen: so then next would check for that and return (rest coll) on false, (seq (rest coll)) on true
21:45	mmarczyk	oh. fair point.
21:46	mmarczyk	incidentally what's the status of that chunked vector patch?
21:46	spjt	So.. how do I make "lein repl" load the current version of clojure?
21:46	dnolen	amalloy: perhaps ...
21:46	brehaut	spjt: specify it in your project.clj and hope none of your dependancies override it
21:46	dnolen	mmarczyk: chunked vector would be nice
21:46	spjt	brehaut: I'm starting lein in a directory with no project
21:46	mmarczyk	dnolen: yeah, and there is a patch on the ticket actually
21:47	brehaut	then you get whatever lein wants to give you
21:47	mmarczyk	dnolen: probably not usable as-is because of the changes to PV around transients
21:47	spjt	brehaut: is there some configuration file for lein? I've been looking at google for a while about this
21:47	brehaut	spjt: there might be fore lein2, but i dont think there was for lein 1 (not that im an expert)
21:47	brehaut	i just create a dummy project when i really care
21:48	mmarczyk	dnolen: well actually that patch is only the beginning of the story, since then things actually need to check for chunkiness, we need chunked-cons & Co.
21:48	mmarczyk	dnolen: which means it's kinda fortunate that satisfies? just got faster, cause it's gonna be needed :-)
21:48	spjt	hmm. I actually looked and "lein" is some shell script and the clojure jar filename is in there.. twice. Bad.
21:49	spjt	CLOJURE_JAR="$HOME/.m2/repository/org/clojure/clojure/1.2.1/clojure-1.2.1.jar"
21:49	spjt	CLOJURE_JAR_URL=http://build.clojure.org/releases/org/clojure/clojure/1.2.1/clojure-1.2.1.jar
21:49	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, I'll try to merge the existing patch and build sth on top of that, or if it's unmergeable for some reason, start over
21:49	pandeiro	spjt: i believe that's just the version lein1 uses internally or something
21:50	dnolen	mmarczyk: sounds good
21:50	spjt	pandeiro: It's the version it uses for lein repl. I'm not at the point where I want to create a project
21:51	pandeiro	spjt: i think you always want to create a project to use lein
21:51	pandeiro	lein new foo && cd foo && lein repl
21:51	spjt	pandeiro: I only use "lein repl", I'm not advanced enough to make any sort of project
21:51	mmarczyk	dnolen: back to the RT.java stuff: I think nth could perhaps use a split into -nth-based part and a linear helper?
21:52	pandeiro	spjt: blind leading the blind here but i think you should try what i suggested
21:52	spjt	Hmm.
21:52	pandeiro	...that is, if you want to use clojure 1.3 or 1.4
21:53	spjt	emacs inferior-lisp is also running 1.2.1, i think it runs lein repl
21:55	dnolen	mmarczyk: lets leave the chunked stuff alone for now. and focus on RT.java
21:56	mmarczyk	dnolen: I notice that cljs.core/find should now be faster, by magic
21:56	mmarczyk	dnolen: apart from that, there is a whole bunch of functions which delegate straight to the proto method
21:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: current impl of nth, say
21:57	dnolen	mmarczyk: one thing we should be very careful about - slowing things down.
21:57	xeqi	spjt: the clojure jar has to be on the classpath to run lein. in lein 1.x it uses 1.2.1 for this. This is what you get when lein is run outside a project
21:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: so in the cases where the proto method is called and nothing else happens
21:57	xeqi	if you have a project then lein will spawn another jvm with the specified version
21:58	mmarczyk	dnolen: there's nothing to be gained from an extra check, right?
21:58	dnolen	mmarczyk: like the PV case, it also seems like first on prim arrays may have gotten slower.
21:58	dnolen	mmarczyk: I think we're going to have measure carefully against master
21:59	mmarczyk	dnolen: anything which is not an ISeq will be slower, as will anything which is an ISeq, but not a cljs type / record, and thus has no proto masks attached
21:59	mmarczyk	dnolen: extend-type could of course attach proto masks to prototypes
22:00	dnolen	mmarczyk: yes but we're missing a opportunity to simplify the code path.
22:00	dnolen	mmarczyk: under advanced optimization we have all the information
22:00	dnolen	mmarczyk: no need to do the prototype chain lookup at all
22:01	dnolen	if mask fails, it fails
22:01	mmarczyk	dnolen: well it still has to be attached somewhere; for strings that would presumably be to the string prototype?
22:01	dnolen	mmarczyk: JS natives are not directly extended.
22:02	dnolen	mmarczyk: separate test entirely.
22:02	mmarczyk	dnolen: oh ok, that's right
22:02	dnolen	mmarczyk: in anycase I'm done :) some fun stuff to play with and test for the next few days.
22:02	mmarczyk	dnolen: :-)
22:04	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, I'll call it a night too for now -- looking forward to more CLJS fun soon though :-)
22:04	spjt	Weird, if I change the version of clojure in the lein shell script it crashes.
22:05	mmarczyk	(or I might actually get the node repl done, cause the lack of it is beginning to drive me crazy :-P)
22:11	pandeiro	spjt: if you use arch the version in community is already 1.4.0... you can get a repl with `clj`, no lein necessary (since you're not really wanting to create a project)
22:12	spjt	pandeiro: Emacs uses lein to make the inferior-lisp repl, I had it working with "clj"
22:13	pandeiro	spjt: hmm, emacs using clojure-mode does that by default? ... but emacs is another can of worms i think if all you want is a repl
22:14	spjt	I managed to get it to use 1.4.0 by creating a project, creating a new file, opening a repl in that window, but it seems pretty.. inelegant.
22:15	pandeiro	spjt: what OS do you use?
22:15	spjt	then again, maybe I should have asked if what I want to do already exists
22:15	spjt	pandeiro: OSX, I can try it in Linux
22:16	pandeiro	no any nix is fine, just create an alias for quickly setting up a dummy project and entering the repl
22:16	spjt	I wanted to write a clojure "program" that just has little snippets to show an example for each function in core
22:16	pandeiro	that you would then use at the repl?
22:16	spjt	maybe such a thing already exists
22:17	spjt	pandeiro: I'd use it in emacs since it's so easy to evaluate expressions
22:17	spjt	you just move to the end and hit C-x C-e and it shows the output
22:17	pandeiro	spjt: have you checked out swank-clojure?
22:18	xeqi	spjt: have you seen the clojure koans? not quite what you're describing, but kind of that direction
22:18	pandeiro	i think nREPL also has the ability to fetch stuff from clojuredocs, which often include examples
22:18	spjt	pandeiro: hehe, yeah. I think I got it working once, but it puts the output in the minibuffer which I didn't like
22:19	pandeiro	spjt: swank-clojure gives you the function clojure-jack-in, which opens a SLIME REPL, not a minibuffer at all... it's a repl on steroids
22:19	spjt	pandeiro: It outputs on the minibuffer.
22:20	pandeiro	slime-repl ... is a minibuffer? don't think so...
22:20	spjt	pandeiro: You can type into the buffer, but eval output appears in the minibuffer.
22:21	spjt	I know I had it working once, but I can't remember how to start it, I just ran clojure-jack-in and it gave me a page of errors
22:22	pandeiro	it is not exactly plug and play but i'm 7-8 months in to clojure/emacs and i'd say swank-clojure is well worth the effort... the github page for it has pretty simple instructions
22:22	pandeiro	C-x C-e will eval the form under point in the slime repl i believe
22:23	pandeiro	one of the main gotchas with swank-clojure is having another version of slime installed, get past that hurdle and you should be fine i think
22:24	spjt	hehe. I think Clojure is the first language I've seen where it's harder to run a program than it is to write it
22:27	pandeiro	spjt: no joke, the environment can be a challenge
22:27	pandeiro	wait til you try clojurescript :)
22:29	emezeske	spjt: Have you tried Leiningen? For me it removes all challenges to running a program
22:30	spjt	emezeske: I think lein is actually where my challenges started
22:30	emezeske	spjt: Huh.
22:30	pandeiro	spjt: what's the actual obstacle at this point?
22:31	spjt	pandeiro: I dunno, I suppose I can get around it, I have inferior-lisp running 1.4.0
22:31	spjt	I got swank to work once, but I don't remember how I did it.
22:33	pandeiro	spjt: do you have an ~/emacs.d already? mine is here https://github.com/pandeiro/dotemacs, you could just swipe it and it should work
22:33	spjt	pandeiro: yeah, I can set it aside temporarily
22:34	spjt	actually I'm wondering if I ever reinstalled all the necessary el files
22:35	pandeiro	spjt: that got me once as well, i accidentally removed slime and clojure-jack-in stopped working :)
22:37	spjt	i have them all installed afaik
22:38	technomancy	all you need is clojure-mode, leiningen, and lein-swank
22:38	spjt	hm?..
22:39	spjt	It's starting the server, it just can't connect to it
22:44	spjt	error in process filter: Symbol's value as variable is void: slime-clj
22:44	spjt	gotten it down to only one error at least
22:45	technomancy	spjt: yeah, get rid of slime-clj
22:45	technomancy	it's deprecated
22:45	spjt	technomancy: in favor of what?
22:46	technomancy	slime-clj became ritz, which is an alternative to swank-clojure
22:46	technomancy	it just used to have a terrible name
22:47	spjt	technomancy: hmm, I saw that ritz thing, I had no idea what it was.
22:48	spjt	As long as I don't have to give up emacs. That was the worst thing about clojure at first, but now I'm using it instead of Windows at work
22:49	technomancy	clojurebot: swank?
22:49	clojurebot	swank is trust the readme and the readme only. all others will lead you astray.
22:50	technomancy	^ real truth
22:51	spjt	I don't know why I'm even bothering with this, inferior-lisp works fine now as long as I load a file in the project directory
22:53	spjt	I don't think this has anything to do with emacs though, it's lein that's messed up
22:53	technomancy	it has happened before
22:54	spjt	At the command line, "lein swank" runs fine. "lein jack-in" runs fine
22:55	spjt	As long as they're not running at the same time.
22:56	spjt	when I do that, I get:
22:56	spjt	Exception in thread "main" java.lang.RuntimeException: java.net.BindException: Address already in use
23:08	spjt	I got it working, such a silly issue.
23:08	spjt	whatever it was, rm -rf ~/.emacs.d/swank fixed it
23:09	technomancy	you can't open two servers on the same port
23:09	spjt	technomancy: I was trying to open a server and a client.
23:10	spjt	The worst part is that now that I've finally got everything working, I completely forgot what I wanted to write.
23:12	technomancy	jack-in opens a server and a client at the same time
23:12	technomancy	it's meant to replace lein-swank rather than working with it
23:13	spjt	technomancy: yeah, I was just trying to run it manually on the command line to figure out why it wasn't running.
23:14	spjt	technomancy: For whatever reason, whatever it ended up compiling into .emacs.d/swank was making it no longer work, because it started working once I deleted it.
23:17	_KY_	What is the way to avoid name clashes when I "use" 2 modules in the test module?
23:17	tmciver	_KY_: don't use; require
23:18	tmciver	_KY_: (:require lib.name :as alias)
23:18	_KY_	I see...
23:18	tmciver	err, (:require [lib.name :as alias])
23:21	tmciver	clojure aphorism: only use use with only
23:22	technomancy	only use :use with versions of clojure prior to 1.4 doesn't quite have the same ring to it
23:22	xeqi	hmm, do other people alias clojure.test vs use/refer+require
23:23	technomancy	xeqi: I like to think of clojure.test as being the equivalent of clojure.core for the test/ directory =)
23:23	tmciver	yes, I use clojure.test :/
23:23	technomancy	there are only 3-5 vars you'll ever use from it, so I think :refer :all is pretty well-justified
23:27	ivan	I noticed that in Clojure it's more common to accept both Thing and a vector of Thing, than it is in Python
23:27	ivan	is there a design rationale somewhere for this forgiveness?
23:29	xeqi	ivan: do you have an example?
23:29	ivan	(require 'x) (require '[x y])
23:30	ivan	something else I can't remember right now
23:30	ivan	er, maybe it was not require but something similar
23:31	ivan	I'll come back when I have better examples
23:37	amalloy	ivan: (require 'x) is very different from (require '[x y])
23:37	ivan	yep
23:38	ivan	https://github.com/mmcgrana/ring/blob/master/SPEC <- ring has a String or a seq of Strings
23:38	amalloy	i guess my point is it's not accepting "x or a vector of x", it's accepting "a symbol or a totally different datatype, which happens to be a vector"
23:39	technomancy	ivan: the seq of strings is to allow for response bodies to be lazy
23:39	ivan	technomancy: I meant the headers, sorry
23:40	technomancy	that's just a quirk of the HTTP spec; you can have a header provided multiple times with different values
23:41	ivan	yeah, I know that part. I'm just wondering if it's good design to accept both Thing and seq of Thing, instead of only seq of Thing
23:41	ivan	a little bike-sheddy, perhaps
23:41	ivan	but you can get spectacular explosions when you treat a string as a list of Thing and get bytes or whatever
23:42	ivan	even worse in Python, where you get 1-byte strings
23:42	technomancy	I'd say it's not a good principle in general; each of these cases have specific motivations behind them
23:43	mlozano	evening!
23:43	ivan	supporting a non-seq would seem to expand every API user's code slightly
23:52	Raynes	&(repeat 500 "I'm a little teapot")
23:52	lazybot	⇒ ("I'm a little teapot" "I'm a little teapot" "I'm a little teapot" "I'm a little teapot" "I'm a little teapot" "I'm a little teapot" "I'm a little teapot" "I'm a little teapot" "I'm a little teapot" "I'm a little teapot" "I'm a little teapot" "I'm a little teapo... https://www.refheap.com/paste/2574
23:52	Raynes	Excellent.
23:53	technomancy	Raynes: I was going to mention that apex domains are strongly advised against if you ever might face a DDOS: https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/avoiding-naked-domains-dns-arecords
23:53	xeqi	&(repeat "I'm a little teapot?")
23:53	technomancy	so the whole adding www is probably the right move
23:54	lazybot	Execution Timed Out!
23:54	Raynes	technomancy: I didn't have a choice in the matter, but I read the rationale and it made sense so I was okay with it.
23:54	Raynes	Besides, it's 4 more characters. We have URL shorteners for a reason.
23:55	Raynes	technomancy: Also, fwiw, refheap is now running entirely on heroku. All I've got left on my server is a nginx rewrite of refheap.com to www.refheap.com
23:56	technomancy	slick!
23:57	Raynes	Thanks again for all the help with the transition.
23:57	mmarczyk	technomancy: hm, apparently lein2, when running out of a checkout, has test stuff on its regular classpath -- `lein2` (no args) says there's a bluuugh task available, for example
23:57	Raynes	Haha
23:57	technomancy	mmarczyk: heh; yeah I noticed that =)
23:58	Raynes	technomancy: Also, re www: if it's good enough for Google, it's good enough for Raynes.
23:58	mmarczyk	technomancy: oh, ok :-)
23:58	mmarczyk	technomancy: if it's not on purpose, I could look into fixing that
23:58	technomancy	it's been low on my priority list, but a fix would be great =)
23:58	technomancy	since it doesn't affect the releases
23:59	technomancy	mmarczyk: also I tagged a bunch of the easier issues with the "newbie" tag if you're looking for stuff to do =)
23:59	ibdknox	technomancy: is there a replacement for :extra-classpath-dirs?
23:59	mmarczyk	cool, sometime when I'm not feeling sleep-deprived then :-)
23:59	technomancy	ibdknox: depends; what were you using it for?