#clojure – 2011-12-20

2011-12-20

00:11	gf3	hello gents, I seem to be having an issue with lein not terminating read-line input
00:11	gf3	I have to build a jar and run that directly
03:24	_hiro_p	hi all, good evening
03:24	_hiro_p	what's the simplest way to define a function that:
03:24	_hiro_p	ta
03:25	_hiro_p	takes a predicate and a collection/sequence, and returns the first item for which the predicate evaluates to true?
03:25	_hiro_p	e.g.
03:25	_hiro_p	I'd like to pass a vector like [1 2 3 4 5]
03:25	_hiro_p	er
03:25	_hiro_p	rather
03:25	_hiro_p	let me gist it
03:25	clgv	_hiro_p: you can do that with 'some
03:25	brehaut	(comp first some)
03:26	brehaut	,((comp first some) odd? [2 4 6 7 8 9])
03:26	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Boolean>
03:26	clgv	like: ##(some #(when (even? %) %) [1 2 3 4 5])
03:26	lazybot	⇒ 2
03:26	clgv	brehaut: no need for first^^
03:26	ekoontz_	##(some #(when (even? %) %) [1 2 3 4 5])
03:27	lazybot	⇒ 2
03:27	_hiro_p	ah, let me try that
03:27	brehaut	ah indeed
03:27	brehaut	i think i was thinking first filter too. fail.
03:27	clgv	yeah, first+filter is working as well
03:28	_hiro_p	clgv: sorry, I think I'm a bit confused…some returns true?
03:28	_hiro_p	er
03:28	clgv	no it does not
03:29	_hiro_p	ah okay I had my syntax wrong
03:29	_hiro_p	I see what you did now
03:29	clgv	some returns the result of the "predicate" function that is not nil
03:29	clgv	the first one that is not nil^^
03:30	_hiro_p	hrm.
03:30	_hiro_p	what am I doing wrong here?
03:30	_hiro_p	(some (fn [n] (= 1 n)) [0 2 3 4 5 6 1])
03:30	_hiro_p	gives me true
03:30	_hiro_p	I was expecting 1
03:30	clgv	_hiro_p: you have to return what you want. currently you return a boolean
03:31	clgv	_hiro_p: therefore I did the 'when construct
03:31	ekoontz_	##(some (fn [n] (if (= 1 n) n false)) [0 2 3 4 5 6 1])
03:31	ekoontz_	[0 2 3 4 5 6 1])
03:31	lazybot	⇒ 1
03:32	_hiro_p	clgv: let me try...
03:32	clgv	_hiro_p: if thats too confusing or too much overhead for you just use: ##(first (filter #(= 1 %) [0 2 1 3 4]))
03:32	lazybot	⇒ 1
03:32	clgv	though I have to say that it does not make any sense to do that for '= ;)
03:33	_hiro_p	clgv: aha
03:33	_hiro_p	(some #(when (= 1 %) %) [0 2 3 4 5 6 1])
03:33	_hiro_p	I'm still getting used to the pound syntax with anonymous functions…for some reason I like writing out the fn syntax more
03:33	_hiro_p	but just have to practice I suppose
03:33	_hiro_p	I like some and when
03:34	_hiro_p	very succint
03:34	clgv	_hiro_p: I write the verbose syntax when the name of the parameter is important documentation or I have more than 2 parameters.
03:35	_hiro_p	clgv: that's a good rule of thumb
03:36	clgv	_hiro_p: and on 4clojrue I try to use almost only the anonymous short cut for a smaller golf score ;)
03:36	_hiro_p	I'm sort of mindblown by how much information I can pack into one liners and still have things stay readable. I've done most of my work in Ruby thus far, and Clojure is feeling really good.
03:36	ekoontz_	me too, still preferring (fn) over #
03:37	ekoontz_	good night guys
03:37	_hiro_p	clgv: haha, some of the 4clojure solutions are maybe just a wee bit too terse, but I'm also a begginer
03:37	clgv	_hiro_p: I only shortened the medium and easy ones heavily. for the hard ones I'll stay with "it works" ;)
03:39	brehaut	hmm. i think i have a non-1.3 compatible dependency based on the amount of ^:dynamic warnings ive got
03:39	AWizzArd	Moin.
03:40	clgv	brehaut: very likely ^^
03:41	brehaut	anybody know if one of [ring/ring-core "1.0.0"], [ring/ring-jetty-adapter "1.0.0"], [net.cgrand/moustache "1.0.0"], [enlive "1.0.0"], [com.ashafa/clutch "0.3.0"], [clj-time "0.3.3"] is not 1.3 compatible?
03:42	clgv	brehaut: you should get a file or a namespace with that warning, shouldnt you?
03:43	brehaut	clgv: i thought so, but apparently im not :/
03:44	brehaut	eg "Warning: byte-array-type not declared dynamic and thus is not dynamically rebindable, but its name suggests otherwise. Please either indicate ^:dynamic byte-array-type or change the name."
03:44	clgv	clgv: I know there was a ring clojure 1.3 compatibility release but I dont know the exact version
03:44	clgv	lol haha. I wrote myself :P
03:44	brehaut	1.0.0 is very recent, i hope its not that ;)
03:44	brehaut	lol
03:45	brehaut	hmm. clutch claims to be compatible, so i can cross that off
03:46	clgv	hmm yes, I have ring 0.3.11 and its clojure 1.3 ready ;)
03:46	pyr	cemerick: around ?
03:46	cemerick	hi
03:47	brehaut	hmm. i think clj-time might be a culprit
03:47	clgv	ah, cemerick: there is some weird formatting in CCW when you type "(use '" it does an automatic line break. can I create an issue without a google account login anywhere?
03:48	cemerick	brehaut: those are just warnings
03:48	cemerick	i.e. try to not be discouraged by them ;-)
03:48	brehaut	cemerick: haha :) aight then
03:49	clgv	well those warning have effects, since most of the time the library author wants to rebind them
03:49	AWizzArd	How comes that those americans are still awake? Isn't it like 4am over there? ;)
03:49	_hiro_p	AWizzArd: depends on the time zone
03:49	brehaut	AWizzArd: who needs their hearing? redbull forever
03:50	_hiro_p	where I am, it's only 1am, in Hawaii it's still yesterday :)
03:50	_hiro_p	on the East Coast, yes….it's pretty darn late.
03:50	brehaut	AWizzArd: or perhaps atomospheric thaums are slowing the passing of time
03:51	cemerick	brehaut: once I can find and swap in a new http client, then I can ditch the contrib dependency entirely.
03:51	brehaut	cemerick: ah right, so its clutch thats causing all the noise
03:52	brehaut	?
03:52	cemerick	well, contrib, but yes, depended upon by clutch :-(
03:52	brehaut	sure
03:52	cemerick	shouldn't be a new thing though…
03:53	brehaut	weel
03:53	brehaut	im foolishly upgrading a bunch of deps in my site at once
03:53	brehaut	including clojure
03:53	brehaut	(and ring and clutch)
03:54	brehaut	i was on some paleolithic version of a lot of libs, but especially clutch
03:54	cemerick	should go swimmingly, I've been on 1.3 running the latest of compojure and ring for months
03:54	brehaut	excellent :)
03:55	brehaut	im looking forward to getting new clutch
03:55	brehaut	in
03:55	brehaut	and finally writing an admin interface
03:56	brehaut	(so i can stop relying on futon)
03:56	cemerick	just for your app, or a general-purpose UI?
03:56	brehaut	just for my app
03:56	cemerick	ah, right
03:57	brehaut	i do really like futon though
03:57	brehaut	(+ ssh tunnel)
03:57	cemerick	One of the (many) reasons I like cloudant: futon w/o the tunnel or admin hassle.
03:58	brehaut	ah true
03:58	brehaut	im too cheap to pay for anything beyond my VPS for my site
03:59	brehaut	so i havent looked around at other services
03:59	brehaut	i guess these days i could host my site on heroku for cheap and then pay for a cloud couch
03:59	clgv	cemerick: any chance to submit a CCW issue without a google account?
04:00	cemerick	clgv: sorry, missed your last /msg; what's the issue?
04:00	cemerick	brehaut: cloudant has a free tier
04:00	brehaut	oh interesting
04:01	cemerick	and they're available as an opt-in service through heroku too, although I don't quite know how/why that would work.
04:02	zakwilson	Is it just me, or is ClojureQL buggy as hell and probably dying?
04:02	clgv	cemerick: a disturbing line break after typing \' - I noticed when typing (use 'debuglib....)
04:03	clgv	(use \n(defn blubb ...) becomes (use \n'(defn blubb ...) when typing the \' on the use-line
04:03	cemerick	clgv: oh, yup
04:03	cemerick	clgv: turn on paredit, you'll be happier in general
04:03	clgv	cemerick: I switch between both
04:03	cemerick	crazy man ;-)
04:04	cemerick	I'll file a bug for you.
04:04	clgv	thx :)
04:04	cemerick	clgv: one time deal though — get thyself a google account :-)
04:04	brehaut	cemerick: how much of the gist you linked to in the clutch ann is relevant to the new api?
04:05	clgv	yeah sometimes the default mode is handy for editing "diagonal" through the parens ;)
04:05	brehaut	cemerick: is that stuff 'just' the future direction?
04:06	cemerick	brehaut: Anything involving the protocol or type is coming attractions.
04:07	cemerick	I needed the new API in order to implement the type though.
04:07	cemerick	clgv: http://code.google.com/p/counterclockwise/issues/detail?id=313
04:07	clgv	:)
04:08	kral	namaste
04:09	clgv	cemerick: I am interested in how modular CCW is - is it possible to use the repl view of CCW standalone in a project?
04:10	cemerick	Not at present, no.
04:10	clgv	thats a pity.
04:10	cemerick	Laurent inherited the codebase…it's gotten much better over the couple of years or so, but it's still quite bound up.
04:11	cemerick	Much of it is being rewritten in Clojure now, which will help quite a lot.
04:12	brehaut	cemerick: so my biggest hurdle with 0.3.0 of couch has been that the db is no longer a map :P
04:12	cemerick	brehaut: thank goodness :-P
04:13	cemerick	There's a record factory @ com.ashafa.clutch.utils/url
04:13	clgv	cemerick: yeah thats true. is there some developer documentation of CCW anywhere? I checked out the codebase a year ago and was quite confused where to start. ;)
04:13	cemerick	clgv: check the wiki; the dev process hasn't changed much, unfortunately
04:14	clgv	cemerick: what wiki page do you have in mind?
04:15	clgv	ClojureDevInternals?
04:16	cemerick	huh, github has its own rev of jenkins for CI http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3372824
04:18	cemerick	clgv: there's that and the how to build page
04:18	clgv	ah ok.
04:20	kotarak	The series of useless forks continuous...
04:22	cemerick	kotarak: ?
04:22	brehaut	cemerick: if im reading the docs for utils/url right, i can just pass in the string that was the name i was previously using right?
04:22	cemerick	brehaut: yup, that presupposes localhost, standard port, database name as provided
04:22	brehaut	yup
04:22	kotarak	cemerick: ah nothing. When ever I read such headlines, I always think: they'd rather improved the original product.
04:23	kotarak	cemerick: there was hudson, then jenkins (admittedly for different reasons), today we add janky, tomorrow panky, and then hanky.
04:24	cemerick	heh
04:24	kotarak	cemerick: ah, nothing.
04:24	cemerick	from a brief look, it seems that they're not forking it but reusing it
04:53	Blkt	good morning everyonbe
04:54	cmdrdats	good morning
04:55	clgv	hmm what would you suggest for better performance: (dissoc m k) or (if (contains? m k) (dissoc m k) m) ?
04:57	cmdrdats	i would guess just the dissoc, since it would need to try find it to remove it? but I don't really know for sure :)
04:58	clgv	cmdrdats: I just meassured it for a million times. if the key is present the first is fast but the first seems slower if the key is not present
05:00	clgv	hmm I guess I have to decide quick for the more likely case and not waste too much time on it ;)
05:00	raek	clgv: I think bith 'contains?' and 'dissoc' are O(log_32 n)
05:00	raek	*both
05:01	clgv	raek: dissoc does a contains? anyway as first action then it should be superior
05:01	clgv	+if
05:03	alandipert	clgv no need for the contains? there, as dissoc doesn't do anything if k isn't in m
05:03	raek	clgv: I assume dissoc walks down the hash trie to find the place where the entry should be. if the entry is not there, dissoc is done. if the entry is there it creates new nodes for the path back up to the root
05:03	amalloy	dissoc should be very close to contains performance if the key is not present
05:03	amalloy	but certainly it will have to do some more work
05:04	amalloy	and if this decision makes a noticeable difference in your program, you can revisit the decision later
05:04	cmdrdats	I usually just use dissoc alone because it's simpler
05:05	raek	clgv: I wouldn't bother with micro-optimizations like this where the alternatives have the same complexity class
05:05	cmdrdats	with the assumption that if i measure it as a bottleneck, i'll figure out how to optimize
05:06	clgv	raek: well it will be used in bottleneck area - therefore the consideration. I'll measure the whole map idea in comparison to the current implementation anyway
05:07	raek	clgv: ok, but my guesstimate is that 'contains?' + 'dissoc' does more work tha just 'dissoc' and does not add any benefit
05:08	clgv	raek: yeah that was my first guess as well
05:08	raek	clgv: you should profile the code know where the bottleneck really is and also read about how the data structures work before you make decisions
05:09	amalloy	(defmacro awesome-dissoc [m k] (if awesome-mode `(let [m# ~m k# ~k] (if (contains? m# k#) (dissoc m# k#) m#)) `(dissoc ~m ~k)))
05:09	amalloy	now you have both, with no runtime cost. but seriously just use dissoc :P
05:09	raek	:Þ
05:09	clgv	lol
05:12	amalloy	(i do think this is a valuable technique in general, though. if you're not sure which approach to take but the decision might matter, and they're both simple, you can implement both with a little compile-time switch)
05:12	clgv	amalloy: yes that idea is good. I did that for another problem some time ago
05:13	raek	when debugging or profiling, just gather information about what actually happens in your app until the solution becomes obvious
05:13	amalloy	lisp: the easiest language to reinvent #ifdef in
05:14	clgv	amalloy: muhahaha. #ifdef I suffered from #ifdef in my second job for years...
05:38	AWizzArd	To the german users: there is also a #Clojure.de channel. Die Deutschen Nutzer können gerne in den entsprechenden Kanal kommen (:
05:43	Scriptor	the latest vimclojure seems to have some lag whenever I try to use the 'o' or 'O' commands
05:56	kotarak	Scriptor: this is fixed in the next version. It was around for years, but finally @darevay was able to track the issue down.
05:58	Scriptor	kotarak: ah, nice. How soon until the next version is out?
05:59	kotarak	kotarak: maybe over christmas. Depends on time allocation. But there have some fixes accumulated. So a quick bugfix release is actually due.
06:00	kotarak	Scriptor: Unfortunately the changes for this fix were rather extensive. So I can't recommend a simple two-line change as workaround...
06:02	Scriptor	kotarak: got it, I was just starting to look through the commits list too!
06:02	Scriptor	strange though, I don't remember having this problem before
06:22	kotarak	Scriptor: It was a long lasting thing.
06:24	kotarak	Scriptor: Tried to be too functional with vim...
06:37	Raynes	kotarak: Yeah. Too bad there isn't an editor configured in a Lis... oh wait.
06:38	clgv	Raynes: yeah slightly OT ;)
06:38	Raynes	Off topic?
06:39	Raynes	Not sure about that. I didn't realize I was over 2 hours late though.
06:40	clgv	hmm well they like vim so they use a vimplugin for clojure. your comment does not more than teasing...
06:53	AWizzArd	Raynes: but Emacs is very difficult to learn and unintuitive.
06:53	Raynes	Tough crowd this morning.
06:54	AWizzArd	Raynes: I am using Emacs, and nothing else, since 2002 ;)
06:54	Raynes	clgv: It was a joke -- kotarak is the author of VimClojure. :)
06:54	Raynes	AWizzArd: Represent! :>
06:54	AWizzArd	But it was difficult to get into.
06:54	Raynes	I recently did a little experience where I used Vim exclusively for a couple of weeks.
06:54	AWizzArd	urks :)
06:55	clgv	Raynes: np. I wont mind much more since I dont even use VimClojure - I just ahted the sound of that ;)
06:56	Raynes	I didn't hate it. I certainly find Emacs to be the much better environment for Clojure development, but I can see how Vim people get by with Vim. I mostly did it just to see what Vim people were missing out on during Clojure development. I don't mind recommending VimClojure to Vim people anymore, now that I know that it is manageable.
06:57	G0SUB	"I don't hate ViM users, I pity them"
06:57	G0SUB	"Using ViM is not a sin, it's a penance"
06:57	G0SUB	;-P
06:57	Raynes	That's close to my conclusion, but mine isn't quite as mean. :p
06:57	clgv	lein uberjar
06:58	AWizzArd	clgv: when you have a german keyboard layout then “lein überjar” is cooler.
06:58	clgv	AWizzArd: that will work?
06:58	AWizzArd	yes
06:58	AWizzArd	This is an actual alias.
06:59	G0SUB	Raynes: lol
07:00	G0SUB	So I have extended a type to the ISeqable interface in the foo.bar ns, how do I use that extension from the foo.quux ns?
07:00	G0SUB	Without creating a wrapper function for seq in foo.bar
07:01	gensym	,(clojure-version)
07:01	clojurebot	"1.3.0"
07:01	gensym	,(clojure-version )
07:01	clojurebot	"1.3.0"
07:02	cmdrdats	,( clojure-version)
07:02	clojurebot	"1.3.0"
07:02	cmdrdats	portal 2 right there.
07:04	accel	are multimethods per namespace or per program?
07:05	G0SUB	accel: program, unless you provide your own hierarchy
07:06	G0SUB	accel: if you don't provide any hierarchy to defmulti, it will use the global hierarchy
07:14	accel	G0SUB: how do I provide a hierarchy to defmulti?
07:15	accel	so if multimethods are per program
07:15	accel	so if multimethods are per program, is there the possibility that multimethods I define might conflict with some library I use? this seems to break encapsulation
07:17	raek	accel: multimethods still have namespaces
07:17	raek	(defmulti foo ...) in namespace a and (defmulti foo ...) in namespace b are separate multimethods
07:19	raek	and if third parties are allowed to add implementations to your multimethod they should ideally only implement methods for their own dispatch values
07:19	accel	raek: so multimethods are _per namesapce_ and not _per program_ ?
07:19	raek	a multimethod lives in a namespace
07:20	Chousuke	multimethods work like regular functions in that regard
07:20	raek	the set of implementations of a multimehtod lives in the multimethods, but can be defined anywhere in the progran
07:20	accel	so the "short name multimethod" refers to the one in the namespace; however, I can add to multimethods in other namespaces by using the long name
07:20	accel	raek: but to define it in another namespace, I need to refer to it as some.other.module.foo right?
07:21	raek	accel: you just use the usual way to access a var of another namespace, e.g. (:use :only [...]) or (:require ...)
07:21	jweiss	anyone use emacs' auto-complete and/or ac-slime? i notice auto-complete is apparently not packaged, thought about uploading to marmalade but figured there might be a good reason it's not there?
07:22	accel	raek: great; I think we are now loudly agreeing
07:22	raek	protocols works similarly
07:33	elricl	Hello.How do i get input from stdin,and store them in a list,so I can use it to call a function later?
07:37	elricl	I want to do something like this http://pastebin.com/si5xvT6y but in clojure.
07:42	svankiE	elricl: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2034059/how-to-read-lines-from-stdin-in-in-clojure
07:44	elricl	svankiE, instead of printing it,I want to store it and use it as a argument for someother function. How do I do that?
07:48	svankiE	elricl: you could look at this Rayne's answer at SO. http://stackoverflow.com/a/1114722/542702
07:54	elricl	svankiE, The main thing I am confused about is,where to store the data. Can you just gimme a snippet for the pastebin link
07:57	osa1	where can I find more about implementation details of clojure's persistent data structures? I read this http://blog.higher-order.net/2009/02/01/understanding-clojures-persistentvector-implementation/ but there are some points which I didn't understand
07:57	kotarak	Raynes: which cannot use Clojure and CL together. Pfff..
07:57	kotarak	To each his poison. :)
08:25	svankiE	elricl: oh. i can't do that, amigo. but you could read this http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html especially the 'getting started' section. and, if you have some minutes: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
09:04	Raynes	cmeier: Morning.
09:07	cmeier	Good morning Raynes!
09:07	cmeier	Like the name for the library
09:08	Raynes	Some guy mentioned 'PowerRangers', but that's too long.
09:08	bhenry	if i have a bunch of files in a reports directory, what is an idiomatic way to grab the report spec from each xxx-report.clj file. if this doesn't make sense i'll be gisting an example, so bear with me.
09:09	Raynes	bhenry: You want to load a bunch of clj files that you don't know the names of?
09:09	Raynes	When in doubt, simplify the shit out of your problem.
09:09	bhenry	i want my list of reports to automatically include all of the reports in the reports directory, so as i add reports i need not change anything else
09:10	Raynes	Yeah, gist an example.
09:10	Raynes	I'm not quite following.
09:10	Raynes	I think I get it.
09:10	Raynes	You probably want clojure.tools.namespace
09:10	bhenry	right now we are using ns publics to get all the report specs out of a reports.clj file. but as we added reports, that file is getting enormous.
09:10	Raynes	Yeah, you definitely want clojure.tools.namespace.
09:11	bhenry	so we want to have a reports dir with abandon-report.clj kpi-report.clj etc
09:11	Raynes	It'll allow you to grab the nses/paths of all Clojure files in a directory and then you can load them all.
09:11	Raynes	Load ALL the things!
09:11	bhenry	excellent i will look into that. thanks Raynes
10:11	TimMc	$inc svankiE
10:11	lazybot	⇒ 1
10:13	svankiE	TimMc: :>
10:17	yazirian	anyone seeing crazy memory leaks in emacs24? yesterday afternoon I did a clojure-jack-in on a project just to try the zookeeper bindings out, then left the repl with the zk connection open overnight... this morning the emacs process is 2.75gb!
10:28	mprentice	yazirian: At 2:14AM Eastern Time, Emacs finally became self-aware.
10:29	yazirian	haha
10:29	yazirian	i may have killed a sentient being :(
10:31	fielcabral	@yazirian I remember Star Frontiers too!
10:39	yazirian	holy ... it's been years since somebody got that reference
10:39	yazirian	fielcabral: you officially win at esoteric references today
10:41	fielcabral	:)
11:05	tomkin_	cd
11:08	juhu_chapa	Hi guys! I just executed the following code: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_contrib/clojure.contrib.server-socket/create-server and indeed the program is working, now How do I stop it?
11:09	kral	juhu_chapa: there must be a java process somewhere to kill...
11:11	juhu_chapa	kral: let me try.
11:12	juhu_chapa	i am running it inside enclojure.
11:32	devn	yazirian: I don't have that problem but I still use slime-connect
11:42	Raynes	devn: Dude. The future. Join us.
11:49	devn	Raynes: What are the benefits in this future of yours?
11:49	Raynes	devn: One less command to manually type.
11:49	Raynes	Less pointless clutter in your Emacs initialization files.
11:50	devn	But...but...
11:50	yazirian	Actually opens a repl whether or not the SLIME devs think you need one.
11:50	yazirian	Oh how I didn't like having to add MORE pointless clutter to get that back.
11:50	devn	Honestly I could probably use some help fixing up my old emacs config. I have a giant clojure config file to fix paredit, setup slime, etc.
11:56	lzskiss	yo
11:57	Raynes	hoho
11:58	dmansen	oh man. my boss just saw some clojure we forced into the codebase and said it looked good :)
11:59	kral	:)
12:06	hansengel	hi, I am getting the error "No matching ctor found for class
12:06	hansengel	jpen.demo.PenCanvas" when trying to instantiate a class from a Java lib
12:07	hansengel	this error occurs when I run `(PenCanvas.)` or `(new PenCanvas)`
12:07	hansengel	there clearly is a matching constructor: http://jpen.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/jpen/trunk/src/main/java/jpen/demo/PenCanvas.java?revision=290&view=markup
12:08	dmansen	i notice that that constructor has no visibility. would that make it default to package private?
12:10	hansengel	ah, missed that - you're right
12:10	hansengel	thanks :)
12:11	dmansen	np!
12:17	replaca	Q: is the ->Type function that I get when I "(deftype Type..." a constructor? Am I always guaranteed to have it?
12:18	Raynes	replaca: It is a factory function. It isn't going to not be there.
12:18	Raynes	Double negatives are fun.
12:19	replaca	That's awesome! Thanks Raynes
12:20	replaca	factory means it's just a wrapper for the Java constructor? Or does it do something else?
12:20	Raynes	Just a wrapper.
12:21	replaca	cool, thanks
12:21	cgray	Raynes: you use marginalia right? i've been having a problem where the docstrings aren't taken out from the function definitions, and wondered if you saw that too
12:21	Raynes	cgray: What version of marginalia are you using?
12:22	cgray	lein-marginalia 0.6.1
12:22	Raynes	Use 0.7.0-SNAPSHOT.
12:23	cgray	thanks, that worked
12:24	Raynes	replaca: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core_deftype.clj#L238
12:24	Raynes	If you're interested in precisely what is going on there.
12:25	Raynes	replaca: Be careful if you read that stuff though. Sure path to the closest mental institution.
12:25	Raynes	Particularly the implementation of emit-defrecord. I have nightmares.
12:31	replaca	Raynes: Yeah, so far I've avoided diving in that deep
12:31	replaca	but thanks for the pointer - I may have to
12:32	replaca	I'm trying to get autodoc to do what it can in terms of discovering and documenting types and records
12:34	duck1123	sweet, 0.7.0-SNAPSHOT worked for me as well
12:34	Raynes	I keep the snapshots generally up-to-date with fixes in marginalia.
12:35	Raynes	Because I know how annoying it is to need a fix that isn't released.
12:37	cgray	Raynes: are you a maintainer of it?
12:37	Raynes	cgray: Kindasorta.
12:38	cgray	cool, well it's really nice :)
12:38	Raynes	I can release and I have commit access. The amount of work I actually do is another thing though.
12:38	duck1123	The worst thing about Marginalia is it reminds me of just how many of my functions aren't documented
12:38	cgray	a kindasorta bug is that "bar" (def foo "bar") gets interpreted as a docstring
12:39	cgray	:)
12:39	Raynes	cgray: That was fixed two days ago.
12:39	Raynes	I have released a new snapshot.
12:39	Raynes	haven't*
12:39	cgray	no problem, it just made me document my var
12:41	Raynes	cgray: Released. You'd need to nuke the marginalia snapshot from your ~/.m2 and reinstall lein-marginalia for it to pick up the new snapshot.
13:25	simard	how can I find official packages on clojars, say clojure-contrib ? the search engine on clojars doesn't list the packages in an order that seems suitable for it to find that kind of release, instead I hit everyone's fork of the package
13:27	technomancy	simard: official packages don't get published to clojars. but you can use "lein search" to simultaneously search clojars and maven central, which includes them
13:27	simard	technomancy: thank you
13:27	jcromartie_desk	Emacs IRC plus Solarized theme: most subtle IRC evarrrrr
13:27	technomancy	simard: but don't use clojure-contrib
13:28	simard	I see, well I need that math round function.
13:28	jcromartie_desk	There's also something to be said about having code in one window and a conversation with the language/frameworks's author in the other
13:28	jcromartie_desk	I can't do that in Visual Studio
13:29	technomancy	,(Math/round 1.7)
13:29	clojurebot	2
13:29	simard	oh that's java's Math
13:29	technomancy	jcromartie_desk: yeah, how many IRC clients have integrated paredit capability?
13:30	jcromartie_desk	:P I haven't switched on paredit in irc though
13:30	simard	technomancy: as for not using clojure-contrib, may I ask why ?
13:31	amalloy	clojurebot: what happened to contrib?
13:31	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
13:31	simard	because they wouldn't be compatible for the next release of clojure ?
13:31	amalloy	clojurebot: where did contrib go?
13:31	clojurebot	well... it's a long story: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
13:31	technomancy	simard: the current release, actually
13:31	cmdrdats	hmm, wish i could run a function to find out just how many people in #clojure is connected here within emacs
13:31	simard	1.3, yes.
13:31	technomancy	plus it was never really a good idea to begin with
13:32	amalloy	and bringing in a hundred-million-zillion megabyte library just so you don't have to type (int (+ x 1/2)) seems a bit wasteful
13:32	jcromartie_desk	I'm kind of sad that clojure-contrib was broken up, but I know it makes sense for the future.
13:32	jcromartie_desk	It was a nice "batteries included" feel.
13:33	jcromartie_desk	but those batteries were getting heavy
13:33	jkkramer	there has been mention of doing a batteries-included version of new contrib
13:33	simard	so when is 1.4 due ?
13:33	jkkramer	i think it would be handy for experimental repl stuff
13:33	Raynes	Yeah, but people would abuse it and we'd have to deal with it.
13:34	Raynes	So I don't think I'm a fan.
13:34	amalloy	amusingly, according to jira 1.4 is due last month
13:34	amalloy	i assume someone just made up a date on a whim and it never got updated
13:34	cmdrdats	we just need a lein plugin that can automatically check your dependencies and include the correct ones :P
13:34	cmdrdats	(based on namespace)
13:45	TimMc	clojurebot: what happened to contrib \|is\| <reply>Well... it's a long story: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
13:45	clojurebot	In Ordnung
13:45	TimMc	clojurebot: What happened to contrib?
13:45	clojurebot	Well... it's a long story: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
13:48	amalloy	TimMc: good save. i always ask the wrong question
13:51	TimMc	Is it because of your childhood that you always ask the wrong question?
13:52	TimMc	(An ELIZA module would be one of the most annoying things you could put on an IRC bot.)
13:52	dmansen	is there a way to interrupt the current evaluation in lein repl without killing the jvm?
13:52	technomancy	dmansen: no, you'd need swank or some other editor integration for that
13:53	TimMc	technomancy: Is that a limitation of Lein or Clojure's built-in REPL?
13:53	TimMc	Been wondering.
13:53	dmansen	technomancy: ah, yeah. my coworker is using lein repl and hasn't gotten his editor stuff set up. i'll just tell him to stop being lazy
13:53	choffstein	technomancy: any new thoughts on s3-wagon?
13:53	technomancy	TimMc: not sure. I don't use lein's repl at all.
13:53	TimMc	haha
13:54	technomancy	choffstein: I'm thinking I may take the explicit :plugins declaration I was planning for lein 2 and see if I can implement it in 1.6.3.
13:54	technomancy	choffstein: in the mean time I think a tweak in the buildpack could handle your use case
13:55	choffstein	technomancy: amazing
13:56	dnolen	technomancy: dmansen: doesn't clojure.repl/set-break-handler! work?
13:58	dmansen	ooh, i'll try that
13:58	technomancy	huh; /me had no idea
13:58	technomancy	oh, it's new in 1.3
13:58	TimMc	Not sure how I would use that, but maybe Leiningen could register a thunk with it.
13:59	technomancy	TimMc: trickier since it's not guaranteed to be supported though
13:59	amalloy	dnolen: to be able to stop the running expression you need to have it on its own thread though, right
13:59	technomancy	but lein could inject a form that used resolve and no-oped if it wasn't found
13:59	dnolen	amalloy: it works for me is all I know.
14:00	TimMc	dnolen: What do you pass it?
14:00	dnolen	TimMc: you don't need to pass it anything
14:00	TimMc	Oh, just use the default?
14:00	dnolen	TimMc: yes
14:01	technomancy	huh; could sneak a (when-let [sbh (resolve 'clojure.repl/set-break-handler)] (sbh)) into lein repl easily enough
14:01	technomancy	dnolen: thanks for the heads-up
14:01	dnolen	technomancy: np
14:01	TimMc	dnolen: That doesn't work for me -- C-c still dumps me back to Bash.
14:01	dmansen	same here. but i'm in lein repl
14:04	TimMc	If I were in SLIME, I'd use C-c C-c or whatever it is.
14:14	technomancy	it looks like you'd need a custom break-handler that would restart the socket-repl thread
14:15	amalloy	technomancy: or do what i suggested, which is start each expression on a new thread. then when that thread stops, the guy who was waiting for it wakes up
14:16	technomancy	oh, I missed that
14:16	technomancy	yeah
14:16	gfredericks	I apologize if this question gets asked a lot, but what's the feasibility of writing pure business-logic-code in generic clojure[script], so it's valid in both languages?
14:16	amalloy	that will have a number of other problems, of course
14:16	technomancy	want to just delegate to nrepl
14:18	gfredericks	or is it something you're supposed to not want to do?
14:19	technomancy	gfredericks: leaning towards the latter
14:19	gfredericks	:/
14:19	technomancy	rationale: http://blog.ianbicking.org/2011/03/30/js-on-server-and-client-is-not-a-big-deal/
14:19	technomancy	it's about node, but it applies to clojurescript as well
14:20	cemerick	gfredericks: the same challenges apply if you were to want to use the same clojure codebase on the JVM and CLR, but even moreso
14:20	technomancy	clojurebot: sharing code between client and server is not as simple or great as it sounds: http://blog.ianbicking.org/2011/03/30/js-on-server-and-client-is-not-a-big-deal/
14:20	clojurebot	Roger.
14:21	jkkramer	gfredericks: I think it's an idea worth pursuing
14:21	gfredericks	I guess the crux for me is the idea: "If you can do it on the client then you probably don’t have to do it on the server, and vice versa."
14:22	jkkramer	especially with respect to validation code and hiccup templates. I don't necessarily agree with the article that "there’s not much in common between these two kinds of validation"
14:22	gfredericks	the reason I think the business logic should be in both places is: we need it on the server, e.g. to share the code with a rails app, or generating excel spreadsheets, etc. But we'd like it on the client so the web app can be peppy, rather than pinging the server for every computation it needs
14:23	gfredericks	(it's a client-heavy JS app)
14:24	jkkramer	right. how you use the information gathered ("this input is invalid") may differ, but the logic to gather that info could be shared
14:24	jkkramer	maybe it would get messy in practice. but i think it's worth experimenting with, at least
14:25	technomancy	yeah, I guess if you're talking about a namespace or two it could make sense. the official "explicitly a non-goal" statements have been about taking entire libraries or applications between runtimes.
14:26	gfredericks	technomancy: yeah, just some pure-logic nothing-host-related namespaces
14:27	gfredericks	so it's at least technologically feasible? I haven't used clojurescript nearly at all, so I can't answer that myself
14:28	TimMc	There's some pretty basic stuff you can share that makes it easier on the user: Max character limits, date restrictions, credit card number formats...
14:28	jkkramer	gfredericks: symlinks? :)
14:29	gfredericks	jkkramer: maybe the cljs-compile script copies over the relevant files...
14:29	jkkramer	there was a post on the mailing list about this. someone came up with a working prototype, I believe
14:37	cemerick	dnolen: you're inspiring some _very_ strange tweets these days :-P
14:38	dnolen	cemerick: heh, I think that was because I helped him fix a bug he'd lost a lot of time over.
14:38	cemerick	oh, sure! But…
14:40	srid	python/ruby programmers here: could you critique my blog post? http://blog.srid.name/2011/12/clojure-line-seq-python-ruby/
14:41	amalloy	srid: it doesn't take a lazy sequence of streams at all
14:41	amalloy	er, of strings
14:41	amalloy	it takes a BufferedReader, which can produce strings when you call readLine. philosophically similar, but i don't think you should just gloss over the difference
14:42	srid	point noted. thanks. editing...
14:47	ccarpenterg	hello I'm coming from Python and I don't know Java, where should I start to learn Clojure? I already understand the basic syntax and I've been playing with the REPL on Linux
14:52	mabes	srid: you can use Ruby's Enumerator for lazy lists
14:52	jkkramer	ccarpenterg: the books Programming Clojure and The Joy of Clojure are great resources. Also, read everything on clojure.org
14:53	cmdrdats	The videos are also a fantastic source of info :)
14:53	mabes	srid: here is an example http://benmabey.com/2011/08/14/word-break-in-clojure-and-ruby-and-laziness-in-ruby.html
14:53	srid	mabes: half the answer :-) how would I use enumerator with eventmachine loop?
14:53	srid	(like using python generator with gevent greenlet)
14:54	srid	reading....
14:54	ccarpenterg	oh thanks, that sounds great, where do you find the videos?
14:54	jkkramer	ccarpenterg: http://blip.tv/clojure (older videos may be more accessible)
14:54	mabes	srid: ah, I see. fair enough.
14:56	srid	i guess i should make it clear in the blog post that the context is concurrency
14:56	Vinzent	ccarpenterg, also check the http://learn-clojure.com
15:02	ccarpenterg	thanks
15:03	amalloy	srid: huhhh, how is that post relevant to concurrency?
15:04	djKianoosh	mabes, http://www.4clojure.com is good too
15:04	djKianoosh	i meant.. ccarpenterg
15:08	mcrittenden	can someone help me understand line 8 here: https://gist.github.com/1503055
15:08	mcrittenden	the (File. "string") syntax is tripping me up, not sure what's going on there
15:09	Vinzent	it's the same as (new File "string")
15:09	samaaron	mcrittenden: you're calling the constructor on File passing it one arg - the path as a string
15:09	mcrittenden	so Something. is a shortcut for new Something
15:10	mcrittenden	cool, thanks
15:10	Vinzent	mcrittenden, yes, and it's preffered over a (new ...)
15:10	mcrittenden	makes sense
15:17	srid	amalloy: the code in that post was taken from a project similar to heroku's pulse, where log files from multiple hosts were streamed and processed to a single channel/pipe (and then sent to websocket, etc..)
15:17	srid	in clojure, each of those tailing was done as a future (thread). in python and ruby, the code is async
15:18	juhu_chapa	clojurians, how do I load a file inside an array? I mean, the file has lines like these: 1 in 1st line, 2 in 2nd line... etc
15:19	juhu_chapa	the resulting array must contain {1, 2, 3}
15:19	juhu_chapa	...
15:20	Vinzent	(doc read-lines)
15:20	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
15:21	ccarpenterg	thanks very much
15:22	simard	is there something special I must do to get access to (Math/stuff ...) ? it used to work in my core namespace, but within a new file (and a new namespace) it doesn't find the method
15:22	juhu_chapa	hx
15:22	Vinzent	juhu_chapa, hm, maybe it was in contrib... But there is read-line anyway
15:23	amalloy	Vinzent, juhu_chapa: line-seq
15:23	Vinzent	simard, are you sure there is no typo or something?
15:24	Vinzent	right, that's what I was trying to remember
15:26	simard	Vinzent: http://pastebin.com/imSp2h70
15:26	juhu_chapa	ok, i got a line, then how do i insert into the array?
15:26	simard	not quite sure if that import line is useful or not anyway.
15:28	TimMc	simard: Math should always be available by default.
15:28	TimMc	being in java.lang
15:28	simard	yeah.. well it was working.
15:28	Vinzent	simard, Math/round expects a double, and your (* 10) returns an int
15:28	Vinzent	so it throws IllegalArgumentException
15:28	Vinzent	,(Math/round 10)
15:28	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: round>
15:29	simard	errrr
15:29	simard	there should be an n there :D
15:30	TimMc	You should still call (double ...) on n or the multiplication just be sure you don't tickle that again.
15:30	Vinzent	Maybe it also makes sense to call double on the result, jsut in case
15:30	TimMc	Try (mils 5)
15:37	amalloy	Math/round takes either a float or a double. if you give it an integer it can't tell which version you want
16:04	tscheibl	hmm.. can't get (binding [...] ...) to work across namespace (file) boundaries in Clojurescript
16:05	TimMc	tscheibl: You can't bind something from another namespace, or no binding holds across a call to a function in another namespace?
16:05	dnolen	tscheibl: a paste of both files would help.
16:06	tscheibl	I'm no native speaker, maybe I didn't explain it correctly
16:06	tscheibl	I'm doing the same thing that works in CLlojure...
16:06	tscheibl	..like the with-connection function/macro in contrib jdbc
16:07	tscheibl	calling a function from another namespace within the binding call
16:07	dnolen	tscheibl: again, let's see a minimal example. then someone can confirm and open a ticket if it's a bug.
16:07	hiredman	binding doesn't exist in clojurescript, does it?
16:07	dnolen	hiredman: it does
16:07	hiredman	but there are no vars
16:08	gfredericks	poor man's vars
16:08	hiredman	dnolen: so it is the same thing as with-redefs then?
16:08	tscheibl	hiredman: what does that mean?
16:08	dnolen	hiredman: basically.
16:08	hiredman	tscheibl: what does what mean?
16:08	tscheibl	what implication does that bring with it?
16:08	tscheibl	"there are no vars"
16:09	tscheibl	there are Javascript vars...
16:09	TimMc	I suppose binding fails across setTimeout calls just as it would with lazy seqs.
16:09	dnolen	tscheibl: which aren't the same as Clojure vars.
16:09	gfredericks	tscheibl: if javascript is single-threaded I don't think you notice a difference
16:09	hiredman	it is a sadder more dismal place, a world without magic
16:09	tscheibl	I don't use setTimeout
16:09	tscheibl	I do it just like in java.jdbc
16:09	dnolen	tscheibl: in anycase we can't help you if we don't see the code :)
16:10	gfredericks	tscheibl: I think the same stuff applies to callbacks in general
16:10	tscheibl	... like with-connection .. as I did many times in Clojure projects
16:10	hiredman	tscheibl: "var" in clojure refers to specific reference type used for linking
16:10	tscheibl	..ok i 'll try to put some example on gist
16:11	dnolen	tscheibl: thx
16:11	TimMc	&(class (var +))
16:11	lazybot	⇒ clojure.lang.Var
16:11	hiredman	for whatever reason (interop?) clojurescript was written without vars
16:17	dnolen	hiredman: not much advantage to having Clojure style vars in ClojureScript that I can see.
16:19	hiredman	dnolen: clojure hangs a lot of compilation and linking information on vars
16:19	tscheibl	dnolen: https://gist.github.com/1503322 (print-something) does output undefined
16:20	tscheibl	dnolen: where it should say 42
16:20	dnolen	hiredman: true, ClojureScript moves that info into the compilation environment.
16:21	dnolen	tscheibl: one thing - you didn't define something anywhere.
16:22	tscheibl	dnolen .. ok I left out the (declare ^:dynamic something) in the example
16:22	tscheibl	but I do this in my original code
16:22	technomancy	hiredman: clojurescript doesn't really seem to be optimized for "pleasant-at-runtime"
16:23	technomancy	well, pleasant for the user rather than pleasant for the developer, I should say
16:23	amalloy	technomancy: developer is already happy because he can use same language on server and client. no need to appease him
16:23	dnolen	tscheibl: ^:dynamic is not necessary in ClojureScript.
16:24	technomancy	amalloy: "not having to use Javascript" covers a multitude of sins, in other words?
16:24	technomancy	I'll buy that.
16:24	tscheibl	dnolen: ok
16:24	amalloy	well, i was alluding to your earlier link to http://blog.ianbicking.org/2011/03/30/js-on-server-and-client-is-not-a-big-deal/
16:24	hiredman	technomancy: I think amalloy may have been making a sarcastic allusion
16:24	technomancy	whoosh
16:25	tscheibl	dnolen: ... ohh.. my god... this might be embarassing... just let me have a second look...
16:25	dnolen	tscheibl: (def something nil), declare does not exist in ClojureScript, and (def something) doesn't work (probably should)
16:27	dnolen	technomancy: ClojureScript can also optimized for pleasant at runtime, most of the fancy SLIME things can be done, just hook into all the analyzer data.
16:27	hiredman	bleh, so static
16:28	Vinzent	(haven't followed the conversation) slime? is there slime support for clojurescript?
16:28	tscheibl	dnolen: phew... still doesn'twork
16:28	Vinzent	or, cljs support for slime
16:28	technomancy	hopefully the fact that you now have to manage two runtimes can be abstracted away, but that seems to be a long way off.
16:28	tscheibl	I used the same "dynamic" var twice.. fixed that.. but it still does'nt work
16:28	dnolen	hiredman: no, it's just stratified, compilation / runtime environment. but CLJS is clearly designed for these to work together.
16:28	technomancy	Vinzent: I think dnolen just meant that there's no technical reason it couldn't be done.
16:29	dnolen	tscheibl: update the gist please. I'll take a look
16:30	tscheibl	dnolen: the problem was just in my original code... but I updated the gist with the declare
16:30	Vinzent	technomancy, ok, then I'll continue wait for it
16:30	dnolen	Vinzent: technomancy: I actually added file and line support for all CLJS defs recently, lots of other things can be added as well.
16:31	technomancy	as George Bernard Shaw said, "The reasonable man adapts himself to Clojure, the unreasonable man adapts Clojure to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."
16:31	clojurebot	hey man is for horses
16:33	dnolen	tscheibl: so it does or doesn't work?
16:34	tscheibl	dnolen: it doesn't
16:34	tscheibl	dnolen: it wokrs in CLojure ... in Clojurescript only if I do this in the same file
16:37	mcrittenden	is there a best practice for converting a string into a seq of 1-char strings, so e.g. "something" becomes ("s", "o", "m", .....)
16:38	Vinzent	,(map str "something")
16:38	clojurebot	("s" "o" "m" "e" "t" ...)
16:39	amalloy	mcrittenden: are you sure you want that? why not just ##(seq "something")
16:39	lazybot	⇒ (\s \o \m \e \t \h \i \n \g)
16:39	TimMc	&(drop 1 (.split "something" ""))
16:39	lazybot	⇒ ("s" "o" "m" "e" "t" "h" "i" "n" "g")
16:40	TimMc	:-P
16:40	cgray	TimMc: there must be a more convoluted way...
16:41	TimMc	I'm sure, but this is pretty good.
16:42	TimMc	mcrittenden: Vinzent's solution is the one you want, just to be clear. (Assuming amalloy's assessment is not correct.)
16:42	mcrittenden	thanks. list of chars might work as well, so i'll try amalloy's route.
16:43	mcrittenden	any guidance on the ##() syntax? what's the double hash there for?
16:43	lazybot	⇒ ()
16:43	TimMc	now you know!
16:44	mcrittenden	sorry about all the newb questions. seems like everytime i ask something in here, i'm introduced to a new syntax so i'm trying to keep them all straight in my head
16:46	cemerick	mcrittenden: ## is syntax for the bot, not Clojure itself :-)
16:46	mcrittenden	oh, good, that one had me worried
16:47	dnolen	tscheibl: binding works for me just fine across two files.
16:47	dnolen	tscheibl: your ns form for the second file is wrong as well as your use of declare.
16:52	technomancy	choffstein: ping
16:52	tscheibl	dnolen: it works for me if the func argument is a function defined in the same namespace where with-something call is executed
16:52	choffstein	technomancy: yessir?
16:53	technomancy	choffstein: I think I have a fix for your issue, mind if I msg?
16:53	choffstein	please do!
16:54	tscheibl	dnolen: ok.. i forgot to type the colon in gist... but it's there in my project code
16:54	tscheibl	..before use
16:55	amalloy	tscheibl: why are you gisting stuff that isn't your actual code? why not just copy/paste the whole thing so that nobody has to second-guess you?
16:56	tscheibl	amalloy: because I tried to extract only the necessary information
16:57	TimMc	tscheibl: You should extract the "necessary information" to a separate set of files, test that, and then paste -- otherwise, you may be changing things without knowing,
16:57	TimMc	.
16:57	tscheibl	amalloy: .. and it should be executable without all my dependencies
16:58	tscheibl	TimMc: possible... yes... I'll try
16:58	TimMc	I prefer to do that with a new git branch + deleting a bunch of code. :-)
16:58	tscheibl	TimMc: arghh.. I would have to delete quite a bunch of code then :(
16:59	TimMc	There's different ways of doing it, but the basic idea is to make sure you have a reproducible, minimal test case.
16:59	TimMc	Usually the process of producing that minimal test case tells you your error.
16:59	amalloy	heh
17:00	tscheibl	TimMc: that's ging to be a long night again ...
17:00	Raynes	Hrm. I thought that cljs could compile entire directories when targeting node.js.
17:00	tscheibl	..as every night...
17:01	Raynes	If I try to do that (with just one file in the directory that works if compiled alone), it fails with a weird TypeError: Cannot read property 'cljs$lang$maxFixedArity' of null exception.
17:01	Raynes	dnolen: Does that sound like a bug, making the wild assumption that have any idea?
17:02	amalloy	i remember when i hung out on comp.lang.java briefly, the guys there were always asking for an SSCCE. not a super-friendly place, but a good philosophy to have when looking for help
17:02	TimMc	acronym?
17:03	TimMc	wait wait
17:03	TimMc	$google SSCCEE
17:03	lazybot	[SSCCEE Sociedad Colombiana de Cosmetología y Estética ...] http://www.facebook.com/pages/SSCCEE-Sociedad-Colombiana-de-Cosmetolog%C3%ADa-y-Est%C3%A9tica/109864375701369
17:03	TimMc	$google SSCCE
17:03	lazybot	[Short, Self Contained, Correct Example] http://sscce.org/
17:03	TimMc	heh
17:03	brehaut	haha correctness is apparently defined by 'compilable'
17:04	TimMc	Usually the question is "why isn't this correct?"
17:04	amalloy	TimMc: i usually took "correct" in context to mean: "the code i am giving you actually exhibits the behavior i'm having trouble with"
17:05	TimMc	hmm
17:05	amalloy	but that's not what the SSCCE page says, so perhaps i'm a jerk
17:06	TimMc	I think they just wanted a succinct acronym at all costs.
17:07	amalloy	Small, Snarky, Curt, Compressed Elocution?
17:08	dnolen	Raynes: I haven't played much w/ the node.js support. You should make a ticket w/ instructions on how to repro.
17:08	dnolen	Raynes: also if you could weigh in on your earlier CLJS tickets that would be helpful too.
17:08	Raynes	EH?
17:08	Raynes	Minus the shouting.
17:08	dnolen	Raynes: I responded to your CJLS tickets a long time ago.
17:09	Raynes	I never got any emails.
17:09	dnolen	Raynes: yeah amalloy has the same problem.
17:09	dnolen	had
17:09	Raynes	That Jira is a worthless hunk of garbage? We all have that problem.
17:11	technomancy	free as in puppies
17:11	TimMc	,(println "&(println \"Amen.\")")
17:11	tscheibl	dnolen: found the problem.. it "looses" the binding when in an event handler established by using jquery... that should be acceptable and could be worked around
17:11	clojurebot	&(println "Amen.")
17:11	lazybot	⇒ Amen. nil
17:11	dnolen	tscheibl: heh, that was what somebody suggest earlier :)
17:11	dnolen	suggested
17:12	tscheibl	dnolen: shame on me...
17:12	Raynes	dnolen: No, I don't have a testable example that doesn't involve node because I don't use or know how to use ClojureScript for anything but node.
17:12	TimMc	tscheibl: That's because the current stack unwinds, exiting the binding, and the event handler is called later.
17:12	dnolen	Raynes: it's fine if it involves node, testability is the key thing.
17:13	tscheibl	dnolen: but now I've got another problem with a defrecord only recognized as Javascript Object and thus not beeing accepted by it's protocol functions ...
17:13	tscheibl	i'll dig into that now ....
17:14	tscheibl	thanks to all for your help
17:14	Raynes	dnolen: Is there anything in particular wrong with the example that I posted?
17:16	tscheibl	nice... you can select the programming language in gist... didn't know that... was my first gist anyway
17:16	tscheibl	TimMc: I can work around that by creating a local binding before assigning the event handler
17:18	Raynes	dnolen: Looks like it isn't happening anymore.
17:18	Raynes	You can close 42.
17:18	Raynes	Unless I can?
17:19	Raynes	Every time I log into Jira a kitten commits suicide.
17:19	Raynes	Yeah, I can't close that.
17:20	amalloy	Raynes: yeah, i had to ask cemerick to close my old issues for me, because jira doesn't think i'm grown up enough
17:20	Raynes	dnolen: https://gist.github.com/1503548 this should have been a reproducing example.
17:21	Raynes	I don't see any other issues of mine that you've responded to.
17:21	Raynes	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-69 This is the only other issue I see that remains open.
17:22	Raynes	Wow, that one is still open? :o
17:27	dnolen	Raynes: thx, cljs-42 resolved
17:27	dnolen	Raynes: I'll look into CLJS-69
17:27	Raynes	That one was fun to debug.
17:28	Raynes	And by fun I mean utterly painful.
17:28	Raynes	I tend to find a new problem in cljs every time I use it. At least witht he nodejs target anyway, since I think I might be the only person on the planet who does that.
17:29	technomancy	we have an internal prototype project at work using server-side node cljs
17:30	Raynes	And it works?
17:30	technomancy	well
17:30	technomancy	it deploys
17:30	technomancy	I wasn't able to get it working on my own machine though.
17:30	Raynes	I'm not astonished.
17:30	Raynes	I've written a total of one thing that actually worked in node cljs.
17:30	Raynes	And that took forever because of cljs-69.
17:31	amalloy	Raynes: better than your track record for jvm-clj
17:31	technomancy	I mentioned there was no repl for cljs-on-node, and the guy that wrote it said that he doesn't even use the repl for regular clojure, so it didn't bother him.
17:31	Raynes	~rimshot
17:31	clojurebot	Badum, ching
17:31	technomancy	that blew my mind
17:31	Raynes	...
17:33	Raynes	I've been considering writing actual node.js js. But then the hallucinogenics wear off.
17:34	technomancy	don't you function enjoy seeing the function word function everywhere?
17:35	Raynes	It isn't nearly as much fn as it could be..
17:35	brehaut	s/$/});});});/
17:35	dnolen	technomancy: I should brush up my cljs-on-node REPL
17:36	samaaron	dnolen: what? You hack using a REPL????
17:36	technomancy	we've talked about writing a clojurescript buildpack, but there's no sense in doing it until there's a stable release.
17:37	technomancy	dnolen: yeah, that would make it a lot more bearable
17:37	samaaron	who needs REPLs when we have IDEs?
17:38	Raynes	samaaron: You're dead to me, music man.
17:38	samaaron	Raynes: you're clearly not a real programmer
17:38	samaaron	Real enterprise programmers develop real systems with real IDEs
17:39	technomancy	developing without a repl is cybernetically unsound
17:39	samaaron	no need for extinct tech like REPLs
17:39	zakwilson	It's funny, I was just telling other people who wanted to transition from "scripting" to "real programming" that there's no useful distinction anymore between a "scripting language" and a "real programming language".
17:39	samaaron	technomancy: so you too have been assimilated?
17:39	brehaut	i dont understand this repl. how do you type your classs in correct in one pass?
17:40	samaaron	brehaut: precisely!
17:40	technomancy	samaaron: Norbert Weiner is my homeboy.
17:41	samaaron	zakwilson: there's a huge differene between real programming and scripting. Scripting is for kiddies, and real programming is for grown ups
17:41	technomancy	real programming supports GOTO
17:41	technomancy	amirite?
17:41	brehaut	real programmers alternate their hard and soft layers
17:42	zakwilson	Heh. I will actually agree there's a difference between scripting and real programming, but it isn't the language.
17:42	zakwilson	Hard candy shell with a chewy center?
17:42	technomancy	clojurebot: ed is the standard editor!
17:42	clojurebot	In Ordnung
17:42	brehaut	mmmm nougat
17:44	samaaron	real programming has semi-colons
17:45	brehaut	im glad im not a real programmer
17:45	samaaron	brehaut: we all have a real programmer inside us
17:46	tscheibl	is my assumption correct that I cannot use ore require cljs namespaces (files) in cljs macro files?
17:47	samaaron	Raynes: so if i'm dead, are you going to hack on Overtone in my place?
17:47	brehaut	tscheibl: im not a reliable source but i think cljs macros are writen in clojure, not clojurescript
17:47	tscheibl	brehaut: that's exactly the reason why I'm assuming that...
17:48	devn	real programming involves magnets, pins, and a steady hand.
17:48	brehaut	http://xkcd.com/378/
17:49	samaaron	devn: are you coding with fridge magnets again?
17:49	dnolen	tscheibl: that's correct
17:49	tscheibl	so I will have to fully qualify symbols from other namespaces that I use in macros
17:50	Raynes	nowaiman
17:51	samaaron	Raynes: it's easy, writing a music system/langauge has no technical challenges whatsoever - not like real enterprise programming
17:54	ekoontz	can people recommend a good combination of clojure and clojure-contrib version tags?
17:54	brehaut	1.3.0 and no monolithic contrib
17:55	ekoontz	brehaut, thanks..no monolithic contrib..i am looking at github.com/clojure/clojure-contrib.git
17:55	ekoontz	is that monolithic?
17:55	TimMc	ekoontz: contrib is dead, basically
17:55	brehaut	http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Clojure+Contrib
17:55	ekoontz	i see, thanks guys, reading
17:56	brehaut	ekoontz: see also http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
17:56	brehaut	ekoontz: the only trick with some of those libs is you may need the snapshots repo in your projects repos
17:57	amalloy	do we have something like prefix-of? eg (prefix-of? [1 2 3] [1]) => true, (prefix-of? [1 2 3] [a 2]) => false
17:58	brehaut	$findfn [1 2 3] [1] true
17:58	lazybot	[clojure.set/superset? clojure.core/not= clojure.core/distinct? clojure.core/every?]
17:58	brehaut	$findfn [1 2 3] [:a 1] false
17:58	lazybot	[clojure.set/superset? clojure.set/subset? clojure.core/identical? clojure.core/isa? clojure.core/= clojure.core/contains?]
17:59	samaaron	brehaut: what awesome magic are you casting there?
18:00	brehaut	samaaron: amalloy's magic :P lazybot tries every function it knows with the arguments you provide and compares them to the return value you provide
18:00	brehaut	eg
18:00	brehaut	$findfn 1 2
18:00	lazybot	[clojure.core/unchecked-inc-int clojure.core/unchecked-inc clojure.core/inc clojure.core/inc']
18:00	brehaut	all the functions that take 1 as an argument and return 2
18:00	samaaron	that sounds like something I need in my IDE
18:00	samaaron	s/IDE/REPL/
18:01	amalloy	samaaron: it's available standalone on Raynes's github
18:01	amalloy	and he wrote a lein plugin as well, i think
18:01	samaaron	very cool
18:01	samaaron	is it just called findfn?
18:02	amalloy	yeah
18:02	samaaron	got it - awesome
18:03	samaaron	amalloy: although not quite as awesome as a pint of bacon
18:04	amalloy	yeah, my whole life has been empty since that dinner. nothing compares to the wonder of discovering a pint of bacon on a menu
18:04	brehaut	it comes in pints‽
18:06	samaaron	brehaut: only in america
18:07	samaaron	amalloy: what amused me was going back to that place the next day for lunch to find the lady serving us wearing an Overtone sticker on her t-shirt
18:08	samaaron	I must have dropped a couple the previous night
18:08	brehaut	is it… fermented?
18:08	amalloy	haha that's awesome
18:08	Raynes	brehaut: Just fried bacon in a glass, bro.
18:09	amalloy	brehaut: no, it was a pint glass with strips of bacon in it like...pencils in a tin can? something like that
18:10	TimMc	There are fermented meats, but bacon is not one.
18:14	TimMc	samaaron: You're sure she wasn't a Conjurer?
18:14	brehaut	Raynes: and yet, googling reveals an article on the guardian that suggests that americans do make bacon beer http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2010/dec/10/fancy-a-pint-bacon-beer
18:14	TimMc	I guess she would have recognized you in that case.
18:14	Raynes	That's true.
18:14	samaaron	TimMc: you mean an Incanterer?
18:15	Raynes	She was a sorcerjure.
18:15	samaaron	TimMc: but yeah it was freaky, she had no idea that it was a logo for a music project :-)
18:16	cgray	there should be a function called max-by that works on a seq so that it wasn't always necessary to do (apply max-key ...)
18:16	TimMc	You asked her?
18:16	samaaron	TimMc: yeah, we did
18:16	TimMc	Haha, nice.
18:16	samaaron	but we didn't try to explain what it was when she didn't know
18:16	TimMc	"Do you have any idea what that sticker means?"
18:17	amalloy	TimMc: englishers don't have the crippling social awkwardness we americans do
18:17	samaaron	TimMc: that's exactly what we asked
18:17	amalloy	oh man, and then you didn't tell her?
18:17	samaaron	she actually wasn't that interested
18:17	samaaron	i don't think she would have believed us
18:17	amalloy	samaaron: i just can't help imagining her, like..."does this say that i hate jesus? is it a gang sign?"
18:18	samaaron	hahaha
18:18	samaaron	it's actually a pro-SOPA logo
18:19	TimMc	This must be some cool logo if she didn't care.
18:20	samaaron	TimMc: hmm, i didn't think of it that way, but you're right
18:20	samaaron	either that or she was pretty crazy
18:20	samaaron	or perhaps both :-)
18:20	TimMc	Is it the image at the top of the home page? or just the two-circles part?
18:21	TimMc	it is a pretty sweet logo
18:22	samaaron	just two circles
18:22	samaaron	thanks
18:23	samaaron	TimMc: have you played with Overtone yet?
18:23	TimMc	nope!
18:24	tscheibl	deftype/defrecord protocol function dispatch doesn't work here in Closurescript. I get the error: No protocol method PMsgQ.subscribe defined for type object: [object Object]
18:24	TimMc	I like how you say "yet". :-P
18:24	samaaron	of course
18:24	samaaron	all Clojure hackers will have at least made a bleep with it before next year is out
18:25	samaaron	you'll be amazed at how fun it is :-)
18:25	samaaron	one of our users wrote a sequencer during the first night of Overtone hacking
18:26	TimMc	Any idea when the video will be up?
18:26	technomancy	could overtone be hooked up to tryclj for server-side composition?
18:26	samaaron	this stuff isn't that hard if you've got some Clojure chops
18:26	samaaron	technomancy: yeah, i've been thinking of exactly that
18:26	technomancy	samaaron: outputting to html5 audio tags or something?
18:26	samaaron	we just need to ice-cast the audio session
18:27	samaaron	yeah, or html5 audio tags if that works
18:27	TimMc	I wonder if <audio> tags take the data: URI...
18:27	technomancy	samaaron: any chance it could run on Heroku? =)
18:27	samaaron	technomancy: now that's a tempting question...
18:28	samaaron	so Overtone works on linux
18:28	technomancy	but you need system-level packages installed, right?
18:29	samaaron	but it's all a bit hacky right now - we're actually looking for someone who has some C++ and JNA fu to help get this stuff smoother
18:29	samaaron	so the way it works right now (on linux) is that we either require a separate install of SuperCollider
18:29	samaaron	or we use our own pre-compiled version which requires jack
18:29	technomancy	if you were outputting to an HTTP stream would you still need jack?
18:30	samaaron	the pre-compiled version ships in a jar and is dynamically launched by copying it to a tmp dir
18:30	samaaron	i don't think the current binary will boot without jack
18:30	samaaron	but it might be possible to re-compile a new binary without those requirements
18:30	technomancy	but it's not technically required for non-hardware output?
18:30	technomancy	interesting
18:31	samaaron	it just depends on whether you can compile SC
18:31	samaaron	but one of my plans is to have an online instance where people can collaboratively jam
18:31	technomancy	you can compile pretty much anything on heroku if you're willing to hunt down dev headers yourself.
18:31	samaaron	it's the only way I can perceive of making any money in order to allow me to continue hacking Overtone full time
18:32	technomancy	I'm chatting through a ZNC instance on heroku, which is a C++ program that gets compiled when I do git push.
18:32	technomancy	ah; now that's an interesting angle
18:32	Raynes	technomancy: Whoa.
18:32	Raynes	technomancy: You've got teach me that.
18:33	spike`	is there a recommended way of getting swank/emacs setup?
18:33	hiredman	~swank
18:33	technomancy	Raynes: unfortunately it requires access to the TCP router, which is a private alpha feature right now. =(
18:33	clojurebot	swank is try the readme. seriously.
18:33	technomancy	but I'm bugging them to open it up for wider beta testing because it's awesome
18:33	samaaron	technomancy: but getting this working on heroku would be insanely cool
18:33	TimMc	spike`: technomancy's starter kit
18:33	TimMc	spike`: Depends on whether you already have a highly-customized Emacs.
18:34	spike`	I installed emacs starter kit, I'm a newb so I don't think I have a very customized emacs, but I have added a few things
18:35	samaaron	spike`: you might also take a look at the overtone emacs config: https://github.com/overtone/live-coding-emacs/
18:35	samaaron	for ideas on how to pimp up emacs
18:35	technomancy	spike`: tl;dr: install clojure-mode and leiningen, then do M-x clojure-jack-in inside a project.
18:35	spike`	here's what I've got: https://gist.github.com/1503817
18:35	technomancy	the swank-clojure readme should provide details
18:36	spike`	okay, thank you
18:36	samaaron	technomancy: if we were able to get the overtone stack running on heroku, how would it handle crashes?
18:37	samaaron	it's pretty easy to crash SC
18:37	technomancy	samaaron: it would attempt a restart, but if it repeatedly crashed on boot it would fall back to "crashed" status.
18:37	samaaron	ah, it wouldnt' crash on boot - only when the user futzes with it
18:38	technomancy	you might have issues routing across multiple dynos if you're relying on in-process statefulness though
18:38	samaaron	technomancy: what do you mean?
18:38	samaaron	can we not persist state to a shared disk?
18:39	technomancy	there's really no scalable way to implement shared disks on EC2
18:39	technomancy	so you need to offload shared state into a database; usually postgres or redis or something
18:39	amalloy	technomancy, samaaron: shared db?
18:40	samaaron	oh, that's no issue
18:40	technomancy	but presumably overtone also depends upon in-memory function definitions, right?
18:40	technomancy	so if each request got load balanced to a different instance, you'd lose stuff
18:40	samaaron	oh yeah, that couldn't happen
18:41	samaaron	one instance would have to represent one session
18:41	amalloy	technomancy: it's hard to tell from heroku's website: is the "one free dyno" per app, or per account, or what?
18:41	technomancy	amalloy: that'd be per account
18:41	samaaron	Overtone users essentially hack at the REPL to create their compositions
18:42	brehaut	samaaron: i think you mean at the IDE
18:42	samaaron	brehaut: we haven't built the IDE yet
18:42	technomancy	yeah, that complicates things a bit since the routing layer is designed for shared-nothing webapps
18:42	samaaron	we're still stuck in the dark ages
18:43	amalloy	really? it seems like all that does is force users to sign up for lots of accounts if they want to try out multiple apps. i got the impression the idea was "throw together some cheapo apps on heroku, and if any of them get much traffic you'll be happy to start paying us for them"
18:43	samaaron	technomancy: tell blake to fix it!
18:44	technomancy	samaaron: hah; you know blake mizerany?
18:44	amalloy	and it's not as if email addresses are expensive - it's easy to work around this setup
18:44	samaaron	technomancy: yup, i took him on a cycle ride to the countryside outside of Amsterdam one time
18:44	technomancy	amalloy: if your app has no traffic it should idle after a while; I think then it stops counting hours?
18:44	technomancy	samaaron: oh cool
18:44	amalloy	meh. if i have three apps that each get one request per hour...
18:45	amalloy	(or whatever, divide into appropriate timeslices)
18:45	samaaron	so you can tell him sam requests heroku become a music making platform ;-)
18:45	samaaron	hehe
18:45	technomancy	samaaron: would it be feasible to just store a history of repl inputs in the shared DB and recompile them on each request, or is the compilation too expensive?
18:45	simard	I have two files, one of which contains defrecords, and the other one that :use them. I get a "Unable to resolve classname" from the file that tries to construct a record, is that normal ?
18:46	samaaron	technomancy: well, so there's two issues really
18:46	amalloy	yes. records are java classes; you import them
18:46	simard	oh.
18:46	samaaron	firstly, there's the clojure part - we want to have the state of the JVM persist between requests
18:46	samaaron	and secondly there's the SC instance which stores the real state
18:46	hiredman	sc as a service
18:47	samaaron	Overtone mirrors a lot of that state
18:47	samaaron	hiredman: so that should be possible - sc just talks OSC via UDP
18:47	samaaron	but the sc state would need to be persisted between requests
18:48	samaaron	in fact, sc would need to be continuously running in the background pumping out data to an icecast server or equivalent
18:48	amalloy	i had an idea for a neat little app i could toy with, but if every new idea i have requires another heroku account (and presumably this is against the TOS as well as being a hassle), it's not very compelling as a service and i might as well just use my VPS and deal with the administrative overhead that heroku is supposed to abstract for me
18:51	hiredman	amalloy: write a clojure app server, deploy it to heroku, and deploy you little apps to your clojure app server
18:51	samaaron	technomancy: so if SC could be made a service similar to a db or redis, then that might work
18:52	technomancy	samaaron: yeah, that's quite a bit more involved than deploying an app though
18:53	samaaron	yeah, it's starting to look that way
18:53	samaaron	and we're still a way off the kind of stability you'd want with that kind of service
18:53	samaaron	but it's definitely an end-game
18:54	samaaron	speaking of end-games, it's bedtime for me
18:54	samaaron	cheerio
18:56	technomancy	later
18:58	TimMc	technomancy: I really wish heroku had a small-fee level of like $3 a month.
18:58	TimMc	$35/mo is quite a jump.
18:58	TimMc	I guess if it gets to that point I should really be monetizing my site. :-P
19:06	TimMc	I guess I'm spoiled by pay-for-what-you-use mostly-static hosting.
19:07	mrb_bk	does anyone here use vim with clojure?
19:07	mrb_bk	i'm having a hard time getting syntax highlighting to work
19:08	mrb_bk	it recognizes that clojure is one of the options for setf
19:08	mrb_bk	but when i choose it, the colors don't change
19:09	mrb_bk	and my other file types all work
19:27	TimMc	When I try to compile CLJS "(def x 1)" using cljs.compiler/analyze and cljs.compiler/emits I get back ".x = 1" -- wtf?
19:34	jodaro	hmm
19:35	jodaro	if i have a multimethod that dispatches on the class of an argument
19:35	jodaro	and it needs to handle PersistentList and PersistentVector
19:35	jodaro	is there something upstream of those to avoid handling each separately?
19:35	jodaro	if they are handled the same way, of course
19:36	TimMc	I think you actually declare the multi to handle ICollection or whatever.
19:36	jodaro	ok
19:37	jodaro	i'll try that out
19:37	TimMc	And if there's not a common interface, you use derive and a ::keyword.
19:38	jodaro	heh
19:38	jodaro	its cool, i do that all the time
19:38	jodaro	i feel like i saw the right way to do this somewhere
19:38	jodaro	on the interwebs or in a book
19:38	jodaro	and of course
19:38	jodaro	now i can't find it
19:39	jodaro	could be that i need something smarter than just class as the dispatch
19:39	jodaro	but i do need to handle String and a java class
19:40	technomancy	you could use clojure.data/equality-partition
19:40	jodaro	Implementation detail. Subject to change.
19:40	jodaro
19:40	jodaro	heh
19:40	technomancy	yeah =\
19:41	jodaro	well worst case is i repeat some code i guess
19:42	jodaro	its only a few lines at this point
19:42	jodaro	actually
19:42	jodaro	each mm ends up having to package things up in a similar way so i guess if i abstract that action out it will be a little cleaner
19:46	TimMc	jodaro: Yeah, you can use derive to establish a hierarchy.
19:47	TimMc	https://gist.github.com/1503998
19:49	jodaro	ahh right
19:49	jodaro	cool, thanks
19:50	TimMc	Now, the exact semantics of when Clojure uses the hierarchy... I don't know.
19:50	TimMc	Maybe just when the dispatch values are keywords or classes.
19:51	jodaro	i just figured out how to handle a byte array as well
19:52	jodaro	have to use (Class/forName "[B")
19:52	TimMc	in the derive statement?
19:52	jodaro	well
19:52	jodaro	in the defmethod statement
19:53	jodaro	for now
19:53	TimMc	jodaro: "The first test of isa? is ="
19:53	TimMc	Well, there we go.
19:54	TimMc	,(isa? String Object)
19:54	clojurebot	true
19:54	TimMc	,(isa? "hi" "hi")
19:54	clojurebot	true
19:55	ttaxus	Anybody made a Textmate 2 (yes it exists now!) bundle for Clojure? Odd that the in-app installable bundles include other "obscure" languages like io and erlang, but not our favorite... Googling just comes up with the Textmate 1 ones...
19:58	jodaro	i'm pretty close to just registering clojuredogs.org and having it redirect to clojuredocs.org
19:58	tscheibl	awesome.. I really managed to get around all Clojurescript problems I had today :)
19:58	jodaro	for some reason i almost always type the former first
20:03	technomancy	the keys are right next to each other
20:03	technomancy	(in dvorak)
20:03	technomancy	same with http://guthub.com
20:41	accel	how do I cast a Graphics to a Graphics2D in clojure?
20:41	hiredman	what makes you think you need to cast?
20:42	jli	hum. does contains? with a list always return false? seems like it.
20:42	hiredman	and why do you think the object you have, that you say is of type Graphics, is also of type Graphics2D?
20:42	accel	hiredman: I'm converting a piece of Java code to Clojure
20:42	hiredman	jli: please read the doc string for contains?
20:43	accel	there is a line ther that says: Graphics 2D g2 = (Graphics2D) g;
20:43	accel	this is a fairly good indication taht (1) it contains a Graphics2D object and (2) needs to be cast.
20:43	hiredman	not in a dynamic language
20:43	ttaxus	@jli had the same problem with contains? as well. It doesn't do what you think
20:44	ttaxus	@jli Basically, you need to use filter to find things
20:44	duck1123	clojurebot: contains?
20:44	clojurebot	contains? is for checking whether a collection has a value for a given key. If you want to find out whether a value exists in a Collection (in linear time!), use the java method .contains
20:44	ttaxus	or you can use the java, but that's cheating, isn't it?
20:45	hiredman	ttaxus: this is not twitter, please don't prefix nicks with @
20:45	ttaxus	What is the convention for replying?
20:45	TimMc	ttaxus: Look around you.
20:45	TimMc	:-)
20:45	duck1123	ttaxus: don't be afraid to use java interop if it's the best solution to your problem. It's not cheating at all
20:45	hiredman	ttaxus: like I just did
20:48	gfredericks	is there an official version of clojurescript in clojars or somewhere?
20:48	TimMc	gfredericks: Nope, and probably not for a while.
20:49	TimMc	Well, no, there's a recent "release" branch, but I'm not sure what the timeline is.
20:49	dnolen	gfredericks: if there is an official version it'll be accessible via maven.
20:50	TimMc	dnolen: You're one of the major devs on that, right?
20:50	dnolen	TimMc: I don't think it's that far off.
20:50	TimMc	Cool.
20:50	dnolen	TimMc: major devs meaning I peruse tickets and fix bugs, sure.
20:50	gfredericks	I'm not as much interested in a stable release as I am in being able to get it via maven rather that "installing" it
20:51	TimMc	dnolen: Do you know if using the cljs.compiler functions (instead of calling from script) is going to be "supported"?
20:51	dnolen	TimMc: what do you mean?
20:51	gfredericks	public API versus private/unstable
20:52	TimMc	dnolen: Well, I'm trying to write a CLJS REPL (like tryclj.com) and I'm getting some pretty bogus results out of cljs.compiler/emits, and I don't know if that's just because that namespace isn't supposed to be used from Clojure.
20:53	TimMc	I think I'm not setting up some environment stuff that it expects, and I suspect that setup is not accessible without going through compile-file.
20:53	jli	I want to add "case" to clojurescript. it seems like "switch" in javascript is a statement, not an expression. is it okay to just write a macro to change it to a cond? I expect "switch" would be faster, but I guess it'd need to be wrapped in a function or something to work as cljs's case?
20:53	TimMc	dnolen: Basically, I want to know whether to keep banging at it or wait for a release. :-P
20:54	dnolen	TimMc: I don't expect the compiler to change that much, but it is alpha software...
20:55	dnolen	TimMc: remember with emit you need to provide some information via the initial environment. I also don't see why you can't just repurpose the existing REPL.
20:56	dnolen	jli: I could be wrong but I don't think JS switch is like Clojure case.
20:56	TimMc	I haven't dug into that REPL enough to figure out if it can be adapted without server sessions.
20:56	dnolen	TimMc: what do you mean by server sessions?
20:57	jli	dnolen: hmm? in what sense? do you think it's linear, and no faster than cond?
20:57	dnolen	jli: yes I don't think JS makes any guarantees about constant time dispatch
20:57	TimMc	dnolen: Well, in the case of TryCljs, all the server does is compile stuff -- the browser has all the state. I'm not sure if that's feasible.
20:58	TimMc	I'll continue poking around in the REPL stuff, of course -- I just don't have a full picture yet.
20:58	jli	dnolen: oh, huh. cond it is, then
21:00	dnolen	jli: if case can't be done, I don't really see a reason for it to exist - but that's just my opinion.
21:03	spike2251	hey I was just trying to follow this tutorial: http://webnoir.org/. I added all of the code to one file, and it's not working. Here is my code: https://gist.github.com/1504221 and "lein run" is complaining about line 22, the reference to all-todos
21:04	dnolen	TimMc: that approach seems like more work - the client browser itself will need a REPL
21:04	TimMc	dnolen: Oh, I already have that.
21:04	TimMc	That was the easy part -- I just forked tryclj.com
21:04	TimMc	well, rplevy did :-)
21:04	brehaut	timmc: are you enliving it?
21:05	TimMc	brehaut: Haha, no -- I'm going to make work.
21:05	brehaut	lol
21:05	brehaut	thats helpful
21:05	gtrak```	dnolen, what env would you recommend for playing around while studying 'Reasoned Schemer'?
21:05	dnolen	TimMc: but tryclj.com isn't really a proper REPL right? printing of Clojure objects actually happens on the server.
21:05	TimMc	dnolen: Right, there's a time-limited sandbox on the server.
21:06	TimMc	dnolen: http://k.timmc.org:7013/ is the current host of trycljs -- if you give it (js* "alert(5)") you'll see that the browser is being used as the eval environment.
21:07	dnolen	TimMc: so if you're using the server only as a compilation service (no evaluation), you're going to need to handling printing at client. not insurmountable, but seems like duplication of work. Though perhaps not that much of a challenge.
21:08	TimMc	Doesn't CLJS have pr-str?
21:08	dnolen	gtrak```: core.logic is good, but any competent Scheme + minikanren.scm is great as well.
21:08	gtrak```	ah ok, I want to learn core.logic anyway, it's not too much at once?
21:08	dnolen	TimMc: it does, so like I said, probably not that big of a deal.
21:09	TimMc	I'll just wrap the expression in a (pr-str (do ...)) or something.
21:10	dnolen	gtrak```: the differences are minor, tho if you want to the book, Scheme is nice.
21:10	dnolen	want to stick to the book I mean.
21:12	TimMc	OK, thanks for the chat. G'night.
21:14	gfredericks	is there any documentation/discussion anywhere about numerics in cljs?
21:15	dnolen	gfredericks: not really. but I don't really see how much cljs can offer over JS numerics.
21:16	gfredericks	dnolen: so integers/bigints/ratios/etc would always be foreign types?
21:17	dnolen	gfredericks: bigints/ratios/complex etc would be cool. Not so sure about integers - anything there will just slow things down.
21:19	gfredericks	dnolen: I'm curious about your comment on http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-13 -- why can't integers be detected?
21:22	brehaut	gfredericks: the browser is free to change the physical type backing any Number (or primative number) at runtime.
21:22	dnolen	gfredericks: look at the implementation of integer? in CLJS, suffers from floating point underflow
21:23	gfredericks	I guess there'd be ambiguity at the upper range of integer precision as well :/
21:23	gfredericks	at some point (= x (inc x))
21:25	gfredericks	not even clear if you want (integer? x) to be true at that point
21:25	duck1123	has anyone ever seen the issue where lein midje will only run the tests every other run? It only happens with one project, so it's something I'm doing, but I can't figure it out
21:25	dnolen	gfredericks: it needs some thought, but not something I'm thinking about too much.
21:26	dnolen	gfredericks: I implemented inlining arithmetic, but of course that means string concatenation given the wrong input.
21:26	gfredericks	dnolen: I tend to care about numerics more than is typical. It's probably a weakness.
21:26	dnolen	might be interesting to support some notion of unchecked ops, and checked ops … but again not something I've thought about much.
21:27	gfredericks	I was interested in implementing ratios, assuming the design was all figured out, but sounds like it's not
21:28	dnolen	gfredericks: what's missing for you to implement ratios?
21:28	gfredericks	dnolen: oh just what we've been discussing. should they be implemented with primitives or goog ints?
21:28	dnolen	gfredericks: it'd be cool for someone to lead the CLJS numerics discussion … hint hint
21:29	dnolen	gfredericks: so much bad JS crap has been purged from CLJS, would be nice to have a similarly good story for numerics.
21:30	gfredericks	I'm definitely interested in it; apparently I'm a bit lacking in browser under-the-hood numerics
21:31	gfredericks	I think there's some new stuff with integers and such? My traditional assumption is all doubles all the time
21:31	dnolen	gfredericks: I don't you can make many assumptions about the presence of integer any time soon.
21:31	brehaut	gfredericks: the spec is all doubles all the time, but the modern runtimes will use ints when their analysis reveals that you are only doing int math (with gaurds to return to floats as needed)
21:32	gfredericks	dnolen: can you pretend there are no ints? brehaut's comment just there sounds like you could
21:32	dnolen	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/307179/what-is-javascripts-max-int-whats-the-highest-integer-value-a-number-can-go-t
21:32	dnolen	lots of weird stuff to watch for
21:32	dnolen	like bit operations - 32bit ints
21:33	brehaut	gfredericks: relatedly https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript_typed_arrays
21:36	gfredericks	hmm
21:37	brehaut	gfredericks: aside from division, i think the most common routes to floats/doubles are probably any op with Infinity or NaN as arguments
21:38	accel	this is kind of embrassing. Is there a way to tell clojure "err, I just modified some *.jar files that you have already loaded. Please reload them."
21:38	brehaut	(use :reload 'namespace.foo)
21:38	brehaut	dont know if it applies to jars though
21:38	accel	i need to reload the jars
21:39	accel	i.e. I modify some java code; I don't want to restart my repl.
21:39	dnolen	gfredericks: an issue with introducing ratio/bigint/etc is that + etc in JS not polymorphic. you would need runtime checks, probably makes sense to have a generic namespace.
21:39	gfredericks	dnolen: okay, so the opinion is that the core arith ops should definitely _not_ be polymorphic?
21:39	gfredericks	for performance?
21:40	dnolen	gfredericks: not unless you want CLJS to be slow for common tasks.
21:40	gfredericks	dnolen: I do :) but I assume most don't
21:42	dnolen	gfredericks: I think CLJS is useful for graphics / audio in the browser, I wouldn't introduce anything which impedes that.
21:42	brehaut	gfredericks: open up an inspector and evaluate 1 + {valueOf: function () { return 2; }}
21:43	gfredericks	brehaut: wow.
21:43	brehaut	have some cake and eat some too ;)
21:44	dnolen	gfredericks: if multiarity fns get special cased, I think CLJS can be just as fast as JS when you want/need it.
21:44	dnolen	brehaut: whoa, I did not know that
21:44	dnolen	brehaut: I guess it's been that way for a long while?
21:44	gfredericks	brehaut: until I can do {__PLUS__: function(a) { ...} } + {__PLUS__: ...}, I don't see how that could help _too_ much
21:45	brehaut	dnolen: yeah. i think i first encountered it in 1.2? but i think its very old
21:46	brehaut	gfredericks: it means your numerics can drop down to fast path code relatively painlessly
21:46	dnolen	brehaut: that's slick!
21:46	gfredericks	brehaut: yeah, but you couldn't use the core arith functions without making them polymorphic
21:46	gfredericks	so (+ 3/4 5/6) would still come out as a double
21:47	brehaut	gfredericks: indeed. but it does make something like + and +' viable
21:47	gfredericks	+' would be a nice parallel to clojure's...
21:47	gfredericks	well sorta
21:48	gfredericks	I guess it's a different purpose
21:49	qbg	Does CLJS have persistent collections yet?
21:49	dnolen	qbg: no.
21:50	qbg	Anybody currently working on them?
21:51	qbg	(publicly, that you know of)
21:51	brehaut	im curious, does clojurescript define its own equality operator seperate to === ?
21:51	dnolen	qbg: not that I'm aware of. would be interesting to pursue.
21:51	qbg	I may have a project to work on then :)
21:52	qbg	brehaut: I would think so since === doesn't do value comparisons
21:52	brehaut	huh it does. thats really interesting
21:52	dnolen	brehaut: CLJS uses =, which is really -equiv
21:53	dnolen	brehaut: identical? uses ===
21:53	brehaut	qbg: indeed; the lack of a value based comparison has impeded javascript collections being developed for years
21:53	brehaut	dnolen: thanks
21:54	dnolen	brehaut: having proper collections in CLJS is oh so nice.
21:54	brehaut	dnolen: totally. its the killer feature i think ;) i havent had a chance to use cljs yet unfortunately
21:55	brehaut	i miss real maps and sets whenever i write JS
21:55	qbg	Putting objects in maps too
21:55	qbg	(as keys)
21:55	brehaut	qbg: _exactly_
21:55	gfredericks	and not having to clone things all the time
21:56	qbg	Who doesn't like [Object] though?
21:56	brehaut	[Object] is my favorite member
21:56	qbg	It's my favorite key :p
21:57	dnolen	brehaut: one JS insanity I fixed - (instance? js/String "foo") => true
21:57	brehaut	to be fair, you could use toString as a hashcode replacement ;)
21:58	brehaut	dnolen: oh nice :)
21:59	qbg	4 is a good hashcode replacement. It was chosen by a fair die
21:59	gfredericks	it's not lisp until your hashmaps are implemented with linked lists
22:00	qbg	Does a balanced tree of cons cells count?
22:00	gfredericks	if you can pull that off with a constant hash function, sure
22:03	brehaut	dnolen: https://gist.github.com/1504352
22:04	dnolen	brehaut: yup I know about that. I think iframes are equivalent to classloaders
22:04	brehaut	pretty much yeah
22:04	gfredericks	is that in the spec?
22:04	brehaut	can cause merry hell with type test though :S
22:04	dnolen	gfredericks: js spec says nothing about iframes as far as I know.
22:05	brehaut	gfredericks: implicitly i think
22:05	dnolen	brehaut: when iframes were more common as communication channels I would have agreed.
22:05	brehaut	dnolen: yeah. its much less painful now
22:06	brehaut	although it can be nice if you want to make a finagled Array type without breaking everyone else's
22:06	dnolen	brehaut: that's not a problem in CLJS tho.
22:06	brehaut	indeed
22:06	brehaut	prototypes are much better solution to that problem :)
22:07	dnolen	the CLJS code I've seen is gorgeous. namespaced modification of prototypes is just too beautiful.
22:08	brehaut	im tempted to rewrite my holiday project in cljs now :P
22:08	dnolen	brehaut: that would cool, I'm sure you'd have a lot of good feedback given your JS experience, there still some rough edges to iron out.
22:09	brehaut	dnolen: the only caveats i have are a) using it from javascript and b) performance
22:09	brehaut	(im writing an animation library for fun)
22:09	brehaut	if i can expose a javascript programmer friendly interface then i think i'm ok
22:10	gfredericks	brehaut: I'm interested in the API capability as well
22:10	dnolen	brehaut: a) might be possible. haven't thought about that enough b) I think is mostly a non-issue.
22:11	dnolen	brehaut: so you're animation lib isn't based on CSS transitions / transforms ?
22:11	brehaut	dnolen: thats phase two: compile down to those.
22:12	brehaut	dnolen: i want to be able to write composable timelines in javascript is the first requirement
22:15	dnolen	brehaut: well if you have a smaller weekend project in mind, I recommend you give CLJS a spin, we could use your input :)
22:15	brehaut	dnolen: i'll definately keep that in mind :)
22:18	jli	dnolen: hum, do you think constant-ness is an essential part of case?
22:19	dnolen	jli: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/1.2.0/clojure.core/case
22:20	jli	I guess I'm actually asking, if it's not possible to make it constant in cljs, is it better to just not have it?
22:21	dnolen	jli: I think so, case is a slick optimization, but if you can't implement it I don't see why it needs to exist.
22:21	jli	hm, okay then
22:23	dnolen	jli: but I'm also not that familiar with the Clojure implementation, perhaps it's possible to do well in JS.
22:24	brehaut	why couldnt you implement it in cljs?
22:25	dnolen	brehaut: jli: I wasn't saying that you couldn't. perhaps you can write so it works well, especially in the new JS engines.
22:25	jli	it calls "case*", and I can't find where that's defined
22:25	jli	oh, the java parts, maybe
22:26	jli	does defmacro not work in cljs?
22:26	dnolen	jli: Compiler.java 7947
22:26	brehaut	dnolen: i would imagine so. i had great success rewriting the regexps in my clojure brush as a big monster case
22:27	dnolen	jli: CLJS only supports compiler macros. you can't define macros in CLJS source. You can define them in CLJ files and require them in your CLJS.
22:27	brehaut	got a huge speed up inspite of javascript regexp engines jitting the FAs to native code
22:31	wolfjb	in unit testing, sometimes I need to mock a method so that I can control the return result, for example to not actually call to the database or write a file or something. how do I do that in clojure?
22:31	gfredericks	with-redefs
22:31	wolfjb	thanks
22:32	dnolen	jli: http://oreilly.com/server-administration/excerpts/even-faster-websites/writing-efficient-javascript.html
22:32	dnolen	jli: case seems worthy of pursuing in CLJS, it would be interesting to see some benchmarks.
22:35	akhudek	Is there a replacement for http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/ for the new contrib modules?
22:35	lazybot	Nooooo, that's so out of date! Please see instead http://clojure.github.com/clojure-contrib/ and try to stop linking to rich's repo.
22:36	brehaut	irony
22:36	akhudek	or rather a replacement for that link?
22:36	brehaut	akhudek: http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Clojure+Contrib
22:36	akhudek	yeah, that's what I've been using
22:36	mbac_	hahah
22:37	akhudek	it would be handy to have autogenerated API docs though
22:37	brehaut	akhudek: http://clojure.github.com/
22:37	brehaut	has some of them
22:37	akhudek	ah, so it does, thanks!
22:38	ekoontz	wow, these bots are smart..triggering off URLs like the old clojure-contrib link.
22:38	ekoontz	(i wasted some time trying to get the old contrib repo to work)
22:38	brehaut	i wonder when algo.monads will get a non-snapshot release
22:41	akhudek	It would probably be good to link http://clojure.github.com from somewhere prominent.
22:41	akhudek	main site takes you here http://clojure.github.com/clojure/
22:42	brehaut	dnolen: i am curious if the advice about scope chains on that oreilly link is still valid since the advent of "use strict"
22:45	brehaut	eg (function () { eval("var x = 1"); return x; } ()) #=> 1 vs (function () { "use strict"; eval("var x = 1"); return x; } ()) #=> error
22:45	wolfjb	okay, I'm failing on using with-redefs, http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/1.3# shows (with-redefs temp (println nil?)) but trying that for me gives an IllegalArgumentException Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol... and so on, what am I missing? is there better doc to read on how to use this?
22:45	dnolen	jli: brehaut: https://gist.github.com/1504464
22:45	dnolen	very interesting
22:46	dnolen	tested w/ node.js 0.6.5
22:46	brehaut	wolfjb: (with-redefs [temp …] …) ?
22:47	brehaut	dnolen: that is very interesting
22:47	jli	well. that's unfortunate.
22:47	brehaut	dnolen: i wonder if constant if's are being compiled to the same code under the hood?
22:48	gfredericks	wolfjb: I would expect calling (doc with-redefs) from the repl would be more accurate
22:49	wolfjb	brehaut: that gave back nil, which, I think, is expected. it aleast didn't error, though I'm still confused on the syntax. doc says with-redefs bindings & body and binding => var-symbol temp-value-expr, so it seems like temp got replaced with the println ?
22:49	wolfjb	gfredericks: thanks, I'll try that
22:49	gfredericks	wolfjb: the syntax is quite similar to let
22:49	wolfjb	ah
22:50	gfredericks	and binding, and various other core clojure macros that are like that
22:50	wolfjb	well, that escaped me
22:50	wolfjb	thanks, I'll try again :-)
22:51	dnolen	jli: compiling to switch is probably best, w/ arrays you would need to store expressions as functions I think.
22:52	dnolen	jli: a quick test shows that array w/ expressions as functions is around ~300ms so slowest by far.
22:53	jli	but switch is linear, no? or, I guess it's dependent on the engine
22:53	brehaut	dnolen: it'll be interesting to try that again in 6 months; i think the first round of reliable inliners are making their appearances in browsers now / soon
22:53	deech	Haskell developer and Lisp newb here, interested in clojure and ABCL. Can I get the immutability guarantees of Clojure by just using an immutable data structures package like FSET (http://common-lisp.net/project/fset/)?
22:53	dnolen	jli: no the oreilly made it seems like few switch implementations are linear - though there's no guarantee of course.
22:53	dnolen	oreilly link.
22:54	wolfjb	ok, so the thing I'm bumping into is I have a function I created y-or-n-p like from lisp but it reads from the console. I want to mock that out so it always returns true in a particular test and false in a different test. with-redefs seems to be concerned with vars so (with-redefs [y-or-n-p true] (println (y-or-n-p "answer"))) is throwing me a ClassCastException because (true "answer") isn't valid. am I going about this wrong?
22:54	gfredericks	wolfjb: use (constantly true) instead of true
22:54	jli	dnolen: but for your node test, it was linear, right?
22:54	gfredericks	you have to redef it with a function
22:55	dnolen	jli: no if slowest at 200ms, switch was ~130-40ms, and arrays w/ fns in them ~300ms
22:55	wolfjb	ah
22:56	wolfjb	thanks gfredericks
22:56	dnolen	jli: oops sorry, looking at the wrong thing!
22:56	dnolen	jli: ifs and switches are the same.
22:57	akhudek	deech: wouldn't primitive lists still not be garanteed to be mutable?
22:58	deech	akhudek: Yes, any data structures not provided by FSET are mutable.
22:59	jli	dnolen: okay, whew, I was confused :)
22:59	deech	akhudek: Just wondering what benefits of FP in Clojure I miss if I stick to that library.
23:01	akhudek	deech: I suppose the concurrency, it is also the case that all clojure lists are immutable, which it doesn't look like you could achieve with fset, unless I'm mistaken.
23:01	akhudek	deech: also, jvm integration if that matters at all to you, or maybe it's a negative to you
23:01	akhudek	deech: it would be an interesting exercise to see how close you could get with basic lisp libraries
23:02	deech	akhudek: Yes Clojure JVM integration is cleaner than ABCL's. But I do like a lot of the CL features, eg. debuggability, handler-bind/case, restart etc.
23:04	dnolen	jli: I just tried with SpiderMonkey 1.8.5, on that engine switch is the fastest by far (though overall SM is an order of magnitude slower than node.js/v8)
23:07	jli	hm, okay
23:07	qbg	deech: I guess it comes down to if you want to use a language that is built around immutable values or not.
23:08	qbg	I wouldn't be surprised if Clojure was more performant though.
23:08	akhudek	deech: I'm not very familiar with CL. I jumped from C++ to Clojure, so it's my first lisp. Someone with more experience in CL might be able to suggest similar solutions in clojure, I'm not sure.
23:08	qbg	I think error-kit provided the restart style system to Clojure
23:09	deech	qbg: Yes, my primary (non-day-job) language is Haskell. I am very aware of the benefits of immutability.
23:10	qbg	CL isn't a bad language, so if it makes more sense for what want, use it
23:11	qbg	I very rarely wish I was using CL when I'm doing Clojure though
23:11	deech	qbg: Not even the debugging environment? conditions, restarts and what not?
23:12	qbg	Might be because I never really did use them that much in CL
23:14	deech	Thanks for your input!
23:14	dnolen	deech: I think have immutability baked into the language a much bigger leverage than using a immutable data structure lib. most clojure libs are built on the same datastructure presenting the same interface.
23:14	qbg	The repl is a good enough debugging environment for how I debug
23:14	qbg	(which isn't to say how I debug is the best)
23:15	ibdknox	dnolen: I'm working on faster versions of map and do-seq for cljs collections
23:15	dnolen	ibdknox: sweet!
23:16	deech	dnolen: Yup, immutability is a huge plus and having one way of dealing with collections is great.
23:16	ibdknox	dnolen: it's kinda meh, because it reaches down into the internals.. buuuut they'll be fast.
23:18	dnolen	deech: also the immutable data structures go hand in hand w/ the concurrency primitives - so it's all of a piece / design.
23:22	wolfjb	when I run lein repl, then use (read-line) it works as expected. Typed input, press the enter key and the input is echoed as the return value. however, running lein run with my main class which will call (read-line), it seems to never return as if it doesn't detect the enter key is the end of the line or something. I'm on Linux, clojure version is 1.3.0 and lein is 1.6.2 on java 1.6.0_22 64bit, any pointers or information?
23:24	qbg	wolfjb: Sounds like the input stream is not being directed to the right process
23:24	qbg	I don't know enough about the internals of lein run to know for sure though
23:25	wolfjb	interesting
23:26	wolfjb	unfortunately, about all I know about lein is how to spell it... sorta :-)
23:26	wolfjb	still learning though
23:26	qbg	Or it is proxying the input incorrectly. I know back in the day Cake had an issue with that until I submitted a bug report
23:29	wolfjb	so, if I wanted to run it without lein, would I run it basically like a java app? (ie clojure -cp .myjar.jar com.mydomain.mainclass args)
23:30	wolfjb	s,.myjar.jar,./myjar.jar/
23:30	ibdknox	wolfjb: try lein trampoline
23:31	wolfjb	ok
23:31	wolfjb	sorry, what is that?
23:31	qbg	eval-in-project's docstring says "Executes form in an isolated classloader with the classpath and compile path
23:31	qbg	set correctly for the project. [...]". That makes me suspect it may be a redirected input stream issue.
23:32	ibdknox	I believe trampoline was actually added just for this type of issue actually
23:32	ibdknox	wow
23:32	qbg	lein help trampoline
23:32	ibdknox	fail
23:32	ibdknox	too many actually's
23:33	wolfjb	ah, and there in the doc it specifically targets stdin issue
23:33	wolfjb	cool
23:36	wolfjb	saweet!
23:36	wolfjb	lein trampoline run ... goodness!
23:51	akhudek	huh, is this expected to work? (case '(:a :a) '(:b :a) 1 '(:a :a) 2)
23:51	akhudek	it works in 1.2
23:51	akhudek	but in 1.3 IllegalArgumentException Duplicate case test constant: quote clojure.core/case/assoc-test--4734 (core.clj:5939)
23:54	ibdknox	,(case [:a :a] [:b :a] 1 [:a :a] 2)
23:54	akhudek	the vector version works
23:54	clojurebot	2
23:55	akhudek	ah, I see that the vector version also matches if you give it a seq as input