#clojure – 2011-11-13

2011-11-13

00:00	technomancy	I am probably not going to be measuring perf so much that I'd notice, but I appreciate having it available
00:00	dakrone	cool, well lemme know how it works regardless :)
00:00	dakrone	and lemme know how I can hely with the JAVA_OPTS lein thing
00:00	dakrone	*help
00:01	leo2007	technomancy: do you know if fuzzy completion works in slime?
00:02	technomancy	leo2007: people have gotten it working, but I don't know the details
00:04	technomancy	dakrone: it's just the smarter quote-aware space string split in (System/getenv "JVM_OPTS") on line 94 of compile.clj
00:04	dakrone	technomancy: I'll take a look
00:07	technomancy	sweet
02:26	loz	hi
02:26	loz	it is possible to run clojure programs on android platform?
02:28	zms	loz: if clojure been ported to dalvik as well, i guess.
02:30	loz	zms: any progress in porting?
02:32	zms	loz: this is all i'm aware of http://www.deepbluelambda.org/programming/clojure/clojure-for-android-source-published
02:36	loz	zms: cool, sounds assure)
03:24	mdeboard	Weird question, but is the guy I was bickering with about the functional nature of list comprehensions in python the other day in here?
04:55	_ulises	I know this is awfully specific, but is anybody running emacs inside iTerm2/Terminal.app?
04:55	_ulises	I'm having trouble mapping C-up/down arrow for history support in slime
07:39	zms	can someone please take a look at http://pastie.org/2856453
08:13	_ulises	zms: what's with it?
08:35	kzar	Oh I see how to do it.. just looked at how with-connection works, ovbious really! Sorry
08:42	zms	_ulises: the dorun part throws a null pointer exception and i've been unable to figure out the source
08:43	_ulises	zms: line 15, you have ((println...))
08:44	_ulises	zms: println returns nil, if you try to eval that as a fn you're likely to get a NPE
08:44	_ulises	</wild_guess>
08:44	zms	_ulises: testing..
09:01	zms	_ulises: you're right. the NPE goes away if i remove this statement. but the purpose of the statement was to show if it's actually doing what it should (check if files can fit into available space). that is broken too..
09:02	_ulises	zms: you're trying to modify m with assoc. assoc returns a new map and then it gets discarded :)
09:02	_ulises	if that's what you mean by "that's broken too"
09:02	zms	_ulises: i'm not sure if the idea of updating the existing list of maps and use that in next iteration sensible at all. coming from imperative mindset i can't seem to think of a way to do it. :-(
09:03	zms	_ulises: ouch. i tried using update-in but that also didn't seem to make sense.
09:03	_ulises	zms: that's because, as you said, you're writing imperative for loops
09:05	zms	_ulises: it's been mind-bending wrapping my head around this. it's fun but frustrating as hell too. :)
09:05	_ulises	zms: let me see if I can cook up something quick that does what you want; then we can walk through it together
09:06	zms	_ulises: i'll be ever grateful.
09:10	Vinzent	anyway, why i can't write something like (def foo) (fact (inc foo) => 2 (provided foo => 1))?
09:11	Vinzent	or maybe (fact .x. => 1 (provided .x. => 1))
09:21	_ulises	zms: nearly there
09:25	zms	_ulises: wonderful!
09:31	_ulises	zms: http://pastie.org/2856836
09:31	_ulises	zms: there are a few nasty bits such as (comp not (some predicate...)))
09:32	_ulises	but the general flow of the algorithm is to recurse while trying to fit files into mount points; each recursion loop takes the first file and sees if it fits in any mount point, if so it adds it to the list of files that do fit somewhere, updates the mount point's free space and recurses using the updated list of mount points and files
09:33	_ulises	I'm sure the code is not as clear as it could be
09:33	_ulises	I also added the option of tagging each file that fits somewhere with the path where you'd have to place it
09:34	Borkdude	_ulises: did you see the thing about the encoding variable yesterday?
09:35	Borkdude	_ulises: it solved my slime error
09:38	zms	_ulises: thanks a lot! it'll take me some time to digest this and get back.
09:41	_ulises	Borkdude: I tried it today and it solved mine too :)
09:41	_ulises	zms: cool, enjoy :)
10:19	zms	_ulises: there's so many new things (for me) in what you wrote (into, partial, conj, comp, ..) and all introduced in a context/problem space that i understand. :) it'll probably be a while before i can come back to discuss the code. thanks again for your time.
10:20	_ulises	zms: no worries. Please keep in mind that that is definitely not the best code to learn from :)
10:24	zms	_ulises: hehe. still it's an order of magnitude beyond my current level so it's a gift and a lesson to me.
10:24	_ulises	zms: cool then, glad to be of assistance :)
10:42	Vinzent	here is _ulises' code with some minor modifications: http://pastie.org/2857122, wdyt?
11:00	zms	Vinzent: it does produce the same results. i see the differences are in the let bindings. i can't say which one is better or simpler yet. there's more new functions here (group by, concat, ...) and like i said above, i'm still reconfiguring my brain to think in clojure. thank you for the code. i am learning from both of them.
11:21	Vinzent	zms, i've also tried to avoid multiplie passes through the collections (when sorting and around the cons call), although it's not much perfomance boost with collections of such size :) anyway, i think it's interesting to try to find different approaches to the problem
11:21	Vinzent	so _ulises made a good exercise for both of us :)
11:30	jakeskik	hi
11:31	zms	Vinzent: indeed. :)
11:32	Vinzent	hello jakeskik
11:32	jakeskik	is there something like difference for vectors?
11:33	jakeskik	or haskell \\ operator?
11:33	jakeskik	so that (difference [1 1 1 2 3] [1 2]) would result [1 1 3]
11:34	Vinzent	you can convert one vector into the set and then (remove ...)
11:35	Vinzent	but that will return [3] for ypur example
11:36	jakeskik	yap, I need to keep the duplicates (except the one which was processed)
11:38	jakeskik	I'm finding my way around core libraries and trying to craft a decent solution for KataPotter: http://codingdojo.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?KataPotter
11:42	Vinzent	then it's possible either to use reduce with accumulator, or partition
11:50	jakeskik	Vinzent: thanks, i'll check patitioning. I played a bit with reduce too, but it seemed to lead quite complex solution. I'd like to do something like this: https://gist.github.com/1362307
11:52	jakeskik	of course, the remove call on the last line doesn't do the trick and I should do the recursion with recur instead of calling the function.
12:05	Vinzent	jakeskik, sorry for the delay. here is a possible implementation: http://pastie.org/2857437 My proposal about partition was wrong, it'd help only if you want to remove the whole second-vector occurences
12:05	Vinzent	let me read your links
12:10	zeek123	Anyone willing to look at three versions of 10 lines of code? I'm loading an file entire into a list and partitioning the list into a list of pairs. Two versions don't work and one works verrrrry slowly. Thanks.
12:16	fliebel	zeek123: You did not actually post the 10 lines.
12:16	zeek123	Indeed. I wanted to make sure it was appropriate to do so.
12:16	zeek123	Here they come...
12:17	TimMc	zeek123: pastebin, of course
12:17	zeek123	that was my next q, thanks
12:18	TimMc	~paste
12:18	clojurebot	paste is http://gist.github.com/
12:19	zeek123	https://gist.github.com/1362348
12:19	fliebel	Do files and sockets actually override Object.finalize?
12:21	zeek123	TimMc: I'm getting OutOfMemoryErrors if I remove the doalls. But with the doalls, it doesn't seem to terminate, but it might eventually. If I use my group-by-twos instead of partition, then back to OutOfMemoryErrors. I want to make sure I understand what lazy sequences do before I actually try to do something real.
12:21	TimMc	Do you really need the whole file in memory at once?
12:22	TimMc	Can you process it as a stream instead?
12:22	zeek123	Ideally I want to do numerical processing on ~1.5GB files with Incanter, so I guess ultimately I won't be able to keep everything in mem at once.
12:23	zeek123	My ultimate goal is an n^2 algorithm. I will need to keep scanning back to the beginning of the file... Are streams still a good fit?
12:26	TimMc	zeek123: The thing about lazy seqs is this: Although they delay computation of the seq until it is needed, they keep the results around as long as you hold onto the head of the seq.
12:26	zeek123	I was formulating a question about that... is there a way to do this that generates what I need from a function? I know there's a classic newbie mistake in here somewhere.
12:27	TimMc	It really depends on what you want to do.
12:27	zeek123	hmm
12:28	zeek123	I found a bunch of blog posts about this topic, but nothing that was immediately enlightening. Any general principles or reading, or should I go back to my original problem and do some more thinking?
12:28	TimMc	seqs wrapped around file streams are great if you are doing stream processing -- as you keep calling (next) on the seq, the lines or chars that you have read into the seq (lazily) are garbage-collected.
12:29	zeek123	TimMc: That makes sense. You keep rebinding to a new head, right?
12:29	TimMc	yeah
12:29	TimMc	In the general case, seqs are just linked lists with some potentially clever stuff in the tail.
12:30	zeek123	Because they're lazy they're faster but they take up more mem, right?
12:30	zeek123	Or at least they accumulate a lot of not-yet-run code.
12:30	TimMc	I don't know how much more memory they take up. Less, if you don't realize the entire tail while holding onto the head.
12:31	zeek123	Makes sense; especially if the seq is infinite.
12:31	TimMc	right
12:31	zeek123	So maybe I should be thinking harder about what I can throw away and when. And how to get it back on-the-fly if I need it again.
12:31	TimMc	You can keep walking (range) as long as you like as long as you don't keep a reference to the head.
12:31	duck1123	was there a clojure library wrapping java.security.* I remember seeing something, but I can't find it again
12:32	TimMc	zeek123: Yep. What are you writing?
12:32	duck1123	trying to avoid re-inventing the cryptographic wheel
12:33	TimMc	duck1123: java.security is just easy enough to use that I haven't bothered looking for a wrapper.
12:33	duck1123	zeek123: as long as you make sure not to hold the head of any long lazy seqs, the JVM should be pretty good at GC-ing those discarded objects
12:33	zeek123	TimMc: It's a compression algorithm from a 2011 paper that uses previous "contexts." You need to be able to search through everything causal to the symbol you're trying to encode. I have it mostly working in Matlab, but I'm trying to break my dependence on Matlab, etc.
12:33	TimMc	duck1123: The problem here is a quadratic algorithm that maybe requires all the data at once.
12:33	leo2007	how to get java doc in clojure repl?
12:33	duck1123	TimMc: not sure if that was sarcastic or not...
12:33	zeek123	(Thanks, duck1123.)
12:34	leo2007	duck1123: do you use ac-slime?
12:35	TimMc	duck1123: j.s.MessageDigest isn't so bad!
12:35	zeek123	TimMc: I've never had to do this before, but maybe I should leave the file I'm encoding on disk and do random access as needed.
12:35	duck1123	leo2007: No, I only use the default of what is loaded with the emacs starter kit
12:36	TimMc	zeek123: Is there any way you can build up a table of extracted data?
12:36	duck1123	TimMc: I'm doing RSA encrytion and verification. (implementing the salmon protocol) and it's a bit of a pain
12:37	TimMc	hrm
12:37	TimMc	duck1123: So, not just running some bytes through MD5?
12:37	duck1123	no, a bit more complicated than that
12:39	TimMc	zeek123: "symbols" are any byte sequence?
12:39	zeek123	TimMc: The "contexts" heavily overlap, like a sliding window, and they can't really be boiled down into a table. I think what I'll do is have one stream of the file for encoding, and I'll have to restream the entire file for each symbol that I want to encode.
12:40	TimMc	eep
12:40	zeek123	TimMc: Symbols are 16 bits of any arbitrary byte sequence.
12:40	zeek123	I don't see another way to do it. :)
12:41	zeek123	In matlab I can get the entire file into memory and then have multiple iterators off of it.
12:41	fliebel	Has anyone written something to access fields and enums nicely in Clojure? bean coms close, but that's not "it"
12:41	zeek123	but I am still making many, many passes over the file.
12:42	TimMc	zeek123: I'm sure there's a way to load the whole file into memory in Clojure, too -- you'd just want to use something other than a lazy seq to iterate over it.
12:43	TimMc	There's probably an existing seq impl that will do what you want here/
12:43	zeek123	TimMc: re loading whole file into memory; yes! that would be fantastic. seq implementation: what should i be googling?
12:44	zeek123	how can i not fill up the JVM heap? how do i know how much it's giving me?
12:45	TimMc	Well, you may need to tell the JVM to use a big heap. There are some switches like -Xmx2G you can pass it for various aspects of its memory footprint.
12:46	zeek123	TimMc: got it
12:47	TimMc	zeek123: What sort of access do you need to the data? Aligned words?
12:47	zeek123	TimMc: yes, the file will always be an even number of bytes
12:47	zeek123	and my "symbols" are 16 bits
12:49	TimMc	So some kind of random-access collection of ints
12:49	TimMc	or bytes, I guess
12:49	zeek123	TimMc: makes sense. ideas for idiomatic clojure?
12:50	TimMc	Not sure yet.
12:50	TimMc	If you read the whole thing in, the JVM might not be happy with the size of the byte[] required.
12:51	duck1123	Okay, the good news is I can sign and verify with freshly generated keys, so this hasn't been a complete loss. Now to just figure out where the example sig I have fails.
12:52	TimMc	There are utilities around that can manage large buffers of (primitive) bytes; that's what you'd want to use. You can probably roll a quick function to slurp a file into one of these.
12:53	TimMc	duck-streams did this kind of thing, but it no longer quite exists.
12:53	duck1123	Would a simple byte array input stream work for you? It's easy enough to get that from a file
12:53	TimMc	duck1123: For a 1+ GB file?
12:53	duck1123	most went to c.java.io
12:54	TimMc	there are limits to the length of arrays in Java
12:54	TimMc	zeek123: Oh! Could you maybe memory-map a file?
12:54	zeek123	TimMc: duck1123: It's not even so much the size of the file, it's any time i start doing interesting things with it that the memory usage explodes.
12:55	zeek123	TimMc: that's a great idea. more transparent to me.
12:55	TimMc	java.nio I think has utils for that
12:55	duck1123	isn't there a lazy input stream for stuff like that? I don't know as much about java io as I should
12:56	zeek123	TimMc: I will have a look at that, and I will make sure to lose my head, as it were. That will hopefully get me a lot farther.
12:56	TimMc	duck1123: I really don't think that will work here -- this algorithm needs random access.
12:57	duck1123	nvm then
12:57	zeek123	TimMc: In any case, you don't think I'll be adding epicycles on top of epicycles? Clojure is a reasonable language for this? It's been a real pleasure to work with so far. I'm hoping to stick with it.
12:58	TimMc	zeek123: Nothing wrong with using Java libs. That's why Clojure targets the JVm, after all.
12:59	TimMc	I think Clojure is a fine language for this. You'll just need to be careful about which tools you use, just as in Java.
12:59	TimMc	(e.g. for this project you wouldn't use an ArrayList<Byte>.)
13:00	zeek123	TimMc: right, thanks. i think I'm spoiled by matlab, but half the point of this is to get out of the matlab ghetto.
13:00	TimMc	haha
13:00	zeek123	matlab is, after all, dedicated to this kind of problem
13:00	TimMc	yup
13:01	zeek123	and i want to be working with a general language so while i'm doing this stuff i'll be building skills that i can use for my own projects.
13:01	zeek123	anyway, thanks for much for kicking this around with me. i'll have a look at what we've chatted about.
13:01	zeek123	thanks for the ideas duck1123.
13:01	zeek123	afk for now
13:02	TimMc	zeek123: I'll leave you a link as soon as I can find it.
13:03	zeek123	TimMc: i'll keep an eye on the log
13:04	TimMc	zeek123: Here is a post by dnolen with an example of high-efficiency Clojure: http://dosync.posterous.com/lispers-know-the-value-of-everything-and-the
13:06	zeek123	TimMc: link is excellent. much food for thought. afk for real this time.
13:55	fliebel	drewr: Why is javax.activation excluded?
14:05	fliebel	Can we have clojure in clojure already? If java.lang where all protocols, life would be easy, in certain areas.
14:05	dbushenko	how to override JFrame.paint() with clojure?
14:09	TimMc	dbushenko: proxy
14:09	dbushenko	TimMc, have a look: (proxy [JFrame] [] (paint [graphics] (println "Hello, World!")))
14:10	dbushenko	it doesn't work. could you tell my why?
14:10	fliebel	&(source into)
14:10	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
14:10	TimMc	dbushenko: $source into
14:10	TimMc	ack
14:10	TimMc	$source into
14:10	lazybot	into is http://is.gd/7toqQd
14:10	TimMc	fliebel: ^
14:10	fliebel	(use 'clojure.repl)
14:11	fliebel	&(use 'clojure.repl)
14:11	lazybot	⇒ nil
14:11	fliebel	&(source into)
14:11	lazybot	⇒ Source not found nil
14:11	TimMc	dbushenko: I've done it here: https://github.com/timmc/CS4300-hw6/blob/master/src/hw6/core.clj#L25
14:11	fliebel	ok, what I wanted to say, is that it does some weird stuff for transients.
14:11	dbushenko	TimMc, thanks!
14:12	fliebel	if it is a transient, convert it to a transient, conj, and return a persustent.
14:12	TimMc	dbushenko: Mine is doing some other stuff, but the basic are there.
14:13	dbushenko	Looks like your code is similar to mine..
14:15	TimMc	dbushenko: Does the window at least come up?
14:15	TimMc	,(ancestors (class (transient [])))
14:15	dbushenko	yeah, but the paint function isn't called
14:15	clojurebot	#{clojure.lang.ILookup clojure.lang.ITransientCollection java.util.concurrent.Callable clojure.lang.AFn java.lang.Runnable ...}
14:15	gfredericks	,(.run (transient []))
14:15	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: TransientVector>
14:16	TimMc	&(instance? clojure.lang.IEditableCollection (transient []))
14:16	lazybot	⇒ false
14:16	TimMc	&(instance? clojure.lang.IEditableCollection [])
14:16	lazybot	⇒ true
14:16	TimMc	fliebel: That's neat.
14:16	gfredericks	O_o
14:16	gfredericks	TimMc: what does it mean?
14:16	TimMc	gfredericks: Take a look at into's source.
14:17	gfredericks	so "Editable" means "transientable"?
14:17	TimMc	Apparently.
14:17	fliebel	TimMc: wait, what... a persistent collection extends clojure.lang.IEditableCollection?
14:17	TimMc	Yeah. :-)
14:17	TimMc	It's not a great name.
14:18	fliebel	ah, I though all transients where editable, which is why I was confused.
14:18	gfredericks	,(transient (transient []))
14:18	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector$TransientVector cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IEditableCollection>
14:18	TimMc	fliebel: It's more that they are Editablable :-P
14:18	TimMc	And I wonder... ##(into (transient []) [1 2 3])
14:18	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector$TransientVector cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentCollection
14:18	TimMc	And I wonder... ##(class (into (transient []) [1 2 3]))
14:18	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector$TransientVector cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentCollection
14:19	TimMc	OK, so you can't use into with transients. Not a big surprise, you have a limited set of operators.
14:20	TimMc	Question for the channel: Is it proper to say that "seqs are collections", or is it more correct to say that "seqs happen to be implemented using a collection (list)"?
14:21	dbushenko	TimMc, I've found what was wrong. I should have invoke that with SwingUtilities/invokeLater
14:21	gfredericks	TimMc: I would question the second part, if I didn't think you knew more than me.
14:21	TimMc	dbushenko: Aha! Which should you have run with that?
14:22	TimMc	the launch of the JFrame?
14:22	dbushenko	Time: (proxy [JFrame] [] (paint [graphics] (SwingUtilities/invokeLater (proxy [Runnable] [] (run [] (draw-graph @win))))))
14:22	dbushenko	that code works for me
14:22	TimMc	hmmm
14:22	TimMc	I don't know if that's correct.
14:23	dbushenko	why? did I have to run the JFrame with invokeLater?
14:23	TimMc	I think the Graphics object may only be safely used in the dynamic scope of paint().
14:23	TimMc	I think so. Look at the last line of my example.
14:23	TimMc	Swing is weird about threads.
14:24	dbushenko	TimMc, hopefully I don't use it in this function.
14:24	TimMc	gfredericks: Lazy seqs use Cons cells, which is what lists are, so coll? and seq? both return true for (range).
14:24	dbushenko	draw-graph fetches the graphics object and then draws on it
14:25	TimMc	dbushenko: I believe that Swing paints on the event loop thread.
14:25	dbushenko	TimMc, how to call on the event loop?
14:25	TimMc	By the way, (proxy [Runnable] [] (run [] ...)) is just #(...)
14:26	dbushenko	really?????
14:26	dbushenko	:-D
14:26	dbushenko	great!
14:26	TimMc	Yeah, check this out:
14:26	TimMc	&(ancestors (class #(* % %)))
14:26	lazybot	⇒ #{clojure.lang.AFunction clojure.lang.Fn clojure.lang.IMeta clojure.lang.IObj clojure.lang.IFn java.util.concurrent.Callable java.lang.Object java.lang.Runnable java.util.Comparator clojure.lang.AFn java.io.Serializable}
14:26	TimMc	See the Callable and Runnable in there? :-)
14:27	TimMc	and Comparator as well
14:27	dbushenko	super!
14:27	TimMc	So, back to Swing -- I think you want to launch the JFrame using invokeLater, and not use invokeLater in the paint method.
14:27	dbushenko	yeah, that really works
14:28	dbushenko	hmm... let me try
14:28	TimMc	I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to recall.
14:28	dbushenko	TimMc, you were right, it works
14:29	TimMc	yay!
14:30	TimMc	I recommend reading up briefly on Swing threading. I think there are some other weird things to be aware of, but I havne't used it in a bit.
14:30	fliebel	What would be the best way to convert a Clojure map to any subclass of java.util.Map? Now I just reduce the one into the other.
14:30	dbushenko	yeah, swing and threading is a weird thing
14:31	TimMc	&(java.util.HashMap. {:a 1, :b 2})
14:31	lazybot	⇒ #<HashMap {:b=2, :a=1}>
14:31	TimMc	&(.get (java.util.HashMap. {:a 1, :b 2}) :a)
14:31	lazybot	⇒ 1
14:32	TimMc	fliebel: ^ The Java Collection classes usually have a (Collection) constructor.
14:32	fliebel	TimMc: Not this one (Properties)
14:32	TimMc	Ah.
14:32	TimMc	any subclass?
14:33	fliebel	oh, I can call putAll
14:33	TimMc	nice!
14:44	Borkdude	Hmm, I'm puzzled by an enlive example. I get lazyseqs instead of
14:44	Borkdude	strings in my output.
14:46	fliebel	user=> (field-map javax.mail.Folder) {:holds_messages 1, :holds_folders 2, :read_only 1, :read_write 2}
14:49	raek	Borkdude: ring accepts lazy seqs of strings as response bodies
14:50	raek	using a lazy seq allows the body to be generated lazilly
14:50	TimMc	That's great!
14:50	Borkdude	raek: I got this now https://gist.github.com/1362567
14:50	Borkdude	raek: I was trying to imitate and example from enlive on github
14:51	Borkdude	raek: I expected the tablebody to be filled by
14:51	Borkdude	*** <tr><td>names</td></tr> things
14:51	raek	is username a node tree?
14:52	Borkdude	raek: they are just strings.. not good?
14:52	raek	clojure.lang.LazySeq@... means that you gave something that expected a string something else (a seq)
14:52	brehaut	Borkdude: transformations are functions from node to node; you are returning a seq rather than a node (map with :tag :attrs :contents)
14:53	raek	sorry, my first comment does not apply in this case
14:53	raek	(thought you mean something else)
14:53	raek	"A transformation is a function that returns either a node or collection of node."
14:53	Borkdude	raek: I checked with (swank.core/break) that username in the for
14:53	Borkdude	loop is a string
14:54	Borkdude	brehaut: aha...
14:54	raek	Borkdude: also, have you considered clone-for
14:54	brehaut	Borkdude: you might want to look at clone-for in enlive
14:54	raek	?
14:54	Borkdude	just trying to imitate this one: https://github.com/cgrand/enlive/blob/master/examples/net/cgrand/enlive_html/examples.clj
14:55	TimMc	I have found the enlive tutorials difficult to read and apply to my work.
14:55	TimMc	I just wnat to shove some data into some HTML, dammit! :-)
14:55	Borkdude	haha
14:55	Borkdude	I am touching it for the very first time now
14:56	brehaut	TimMc: my problem was that they cover all the conceptual stuff pretty quickly, and then dive into examples. i never grasped the conceptual stuff to i had bet my head against my own problems
14:56	TimMc	Borkdude: I'm working with it right now, let me show you my code so far.
14:56	Borkdude	brehaut: why clone-for if the example should work with for?
14:56	Borkdude	and why the heck is my table body disappearing
14:57	brehaut	Borkdude: im curious about that too; i wonder how old that example is; enlive changed dramatically over its life
14:57	TimMc	Borkdude: Here's where the pertinent stuff is in my case: https://github.com/timmc/seqs-and-colls/blob/master/src/seqs/core.clj#L40
14:57	Borkdude	brehaut: I am using version 1.0.0 from clojars!
14:57	brehaut	Borkdude: but what version is that example using! ;)
14:58	raek	my guess is that something adds one extra layer of seqs
14:59	Borkdude	brehaut: good question. let me just explain what I'm trying to
14:59	Borkdude	do => insert <tr><td> ... </td></tr> 's with names filled in on the dots
14:59	raek	and maybe enlive checks whether each element of the outer seq is a map (a node), and if it isn't calls 'str' on it
14:59	Borkdude	now show me the most appropriate way in enlive ;)
15:00	raek	Borkdude: clone-for
15:00	Borkdude	raek: I guess that one is not in 1.0.0
15:00	TimMc	Borkdude: I run clone-for over the :tr in here and then clone-for over the :td 's: https://github.com/timmc/seqs-and-colls/blob/master/src/seqs/html/table.html
15:00	brehaut	Borkdude: as raek suggests, thats the usecase for clone-for
15:01	raek	Borkdude: example: https://github.com/raek/lcug-guestbook/blob/master/src/se/raek/lcug/guestbook/view.clj
15:01	TimMc	brehaut: I often prefer to have a working example first, and then drill down into how it actually works.
15:03	brehaut	TimMc: likewise
15:04	Borkdude	ok, clone-for... what enlive version should I use from clojars then?
15:04	TimMc	I'm using 1.0.0.
15:05	TimMc	[enlive "1.0.0"]
15:05	Borkdude	hmm ok, lemme see
15:05	Borkdude	oopz, forgot to prefix it
15:08	tensorpudding	i genuinely ignored the docs for enlive, they just confused me
15:08	tensorpudding	and just looked at the code of the example in the wiki that has a form that they clone
15:09	Borkdude	hmm, I now get two tablebodies with tr/td/name in it
15:09	Borkdude	with the two names I listed though
15:12	Borkdude	ah, got it
15:15	Borkdude	works: https://gist.github.com/1362567
15:15	Borkdude	tnx guys!
15:23	TimMc	yay
15:29	Borkdude	which transformation to use to remove smth from the html?
15:29	Borkdude	substitute?
15:29	brehaut	Borkdude: substitute with a nil result
15:29	brehaut	s/result/value/
15:30	brehaut	or perhaps content with nil depending what your selector is
15:30	TimMc	Borkdude: (fn [nodes] (when-not (hungry?) nodes))
15:30	TimMc	something like that
15:31	Borkdude	timmc: I have added an id to the table
15:31	Borkdude	and when the user first comes to the page, I don't want to show
15:31	Borkdude	the table
15:33	Borkdude	TimMc: so smth like this: (deftemplate welcome-page "index.html"
15:33	Borkdude	[] [:table#names] ...)
15:34	Borkdude	I'm trying to understand how it works by looking at the tests...
15:34	Borkdude	https://github.com/cgrand/enlive/blob/master/test/net/cgrand/enlive_html/test.clj
15:34	Borkdude	but that doesn't help me very much with substitute
15:34	TimMc	That [] can take a boolean called first-view? and then you can have [table#stuff] (fn [tbl] (when (not first-view?) tbl))
15:35	tensorpudding	yes, templates are functions
15:35	tensorpudding	you can specify them with arguments that you pass
15:36	Borkdude	eh, how many lines of code can I paste without being kicked out?
15:36	Borkdude	4 too much?
15:36	brehaut	you wont get kicked, but its not good form
15:36	tensorpudding	just use a pastebin, or gist, or ideone
15:36	gfredericks	everybody will glare at you
15:36	gfredericks	using the unicode glare character
15:36	TimMc	ಠ_ಠ
15:37	Borkdude	ok, like this? https://gist.github.com/1362634
15:37	Borkdude	gfredericks: that is a very cool character
15:37	TimMc	It is U+0CA0
15:37	brehaut	💩
15:37	TimMc	twice, with an underscore
15:38	tensorpudding	nice astral plane characters
15:38	gfredericks	ironically, it takes four lines to print it
15:38	Borkdude	tnxs a lot, these characters will come in handy
15:38	TimMc	brehaut: All I got from you was U+FFFD
15:38	brehaut	TimMc: huh. it was supposed to be the unicode pile of poo
15:38	Borkdude	btw, my example doesn't work. why not?
15:38	brehaut	i blame colloquay
15:39	TimMc	I blame my fucked-up server.
15:39	brehaut	Borkdude: you dont need to pass a fun to substitute; just pass nil
15:39	TimMc	Borkdude: Did you see my example at :29? I didn't use substitute.
15:40	brehaut	alternatively instead of subsitute you oculd use (constantly nil)
15:40	Borkdude	brehaut: ah that works
15:40	TimMc	Borkdude: Whatever expression you put in has to evaluate to a function. That function will be called with the matched list of nodes.
15:41	TimMc	The result of the function should be a string or a seq.
15:46	Borkdude	my emacs crashed...
15:46	Borkdude	TimMc: what did you say? I missed it
15:47	TimMc	Borkdude: Whatever expression you put in has to evaluate to a function. That function will be called with the matched list of nodes. / The result of the function should be a string or a seq.
15:47	Borkdude	so putting in nil... why does it work?
15:48	TimMc	Borkdude: You're not putting in nil, you're putting in a function that, when called, gives nil.
15:49	Borkdude	TimMc: I mean this: [:table#names]
15:49	Borkdude	(enlive/substitute nil)
15:49	Borkdude	like brehaut suggested, it works
15:49	brehaut	Borkdude: do you understand that all the core transformations (eg, content, substitute etc) are actually returning functions ?
15:49	TimMc	Borkdude: enlive/substitute returns a function
15:49	TimMc	brehaut: That was the key to my understanding what enlive was doing.
15:50	brehaut	Borkdude: content frinstance is approximately (fn [new-content] (fn [node] (assoc node :content new-content)))
15:51	brehaut	Borkdude: substitute is probably (fn [new-nodes] (fn [_] new-nodes))
15:51	TimMc	it actually uses constantly :-)
15:51	Borkdude	so, substitute something returns (fn [new-content] (fn [matched-node] ...replace something in the matched-node])?
15:51	TimMc	(constantly (flatten-nodes-coll values))
15:51	brehaut	TimMc: i figured ;) but for the purposes of simplifying whats happening
15:51	Borkdude	TimMc: I saw that, but I still don't understand it quite
15:52	TimMc	((enlive/substitute "hello")) => '("hello")
15:52	brehaut	,(map (constantly :foo) (range 1 10))
15:52	clojurebot	(:foo :foo :foo :foo :foo ...)
15:52	Borkdude	ah wait, I thought substitute would substitute something inside the matched node
15:52	TimMc	Borkdude: A template is not an html tree -- it is a tree of functions for transforming an html tree.
15:52	brehaut	Borkdude: thats content
15:53	Borkdude	but it substitutes the entire node
15:54	TimMc	brehaut: I think they should deftemplate first, but not be released from class until they see snippets, etc.
15:54	Borkdude	ok, so substitute returns a function that always evaluates to the substitution
15:54	TimMc	yup
15:54	Borkdude	and what is that function applied to, the matched node?
15:54	TimMc	Yes, but it ignores the node.
15:55	TimMc	(nodes)
15:55	Borkdude	so each function is applied to the matched node
15:55	brehaut	Borkdude: yes exactly.
15:55	Borkdude	and that series of applications results in new html
15:55	TimMc	brehaut: This is something I am not clear on, actually -- does [:table :tr]'s matcher get all the :tr's, or just the first, or is it called once for each?
15:55	Borkdude	so why do I need snippets?
15:56	brehaut	TimMc: it should match all the :trs inside :tables inside the current context node
15:56	TimMc	So the function gets a collection.
15:57	brehaut	Borkdude: snippets are like templates that return nodes instead of a seq of strings
15:57	churib	is there an "unintern" in clojure?
15:58	brehaut	TimMc: i think it depends _where_ that selector is used; if you use it with select then i think it gets a collection; if you use it with at (which is implicit in templates and snippets) then you get single node
15:58	TimMc	OK.
15:58	raek	churib: ns-unmap?
15:58	churib	raek: sounds good - thanks!
15:59	Borkdude	brehaut: why was content a nested function?
15:59	Borkdude	brehaut: like (fn [new-content] (fn [node] ...))
15:59	Borkdude	what is new-content?
15:59	brehaut	Borkdude: all the standard transforms are nested function
16:00	brehaut	Borkdude: the transformations are only ever passed a node (or node set for a selection range)
16:00	churib	raek: how do i get the current namespace?
16:01	brehaut	Borkdude: but you probably want additional data in that transformation (such as the new content to insert); the inner function closes over outer functions locals. new-content is whatever the new content of the node is (ie, it replaces :content in the node map)
16:01	TimMc	,ns
16:01	clojurebot	#<Namespace sandbox>
16:01	churib	TimMc: thanks :)
16:02	TimMc	churib: There might be a better way...
16:02	brehaut	Borkdude: constantly returns a function too - a function that ignores its arguments and returns the same thing constantly
16:02	Borkdude	brehaut: er, the outer function gets "usernames" in my example then?
16:02	sritchie	hey all -- is the clojure 1.4 snapshot available on maven?
16:03	sritchie	for dev
16:03	Borkdude	brehaut: I know that, but constantly doesn't return a nested function
16:03	churib	TimMc: I used it only in the repl to get rid of an typo
16:03	churib	(symbol)
16:03	brehaut	(source constantly)
16:03	TimMc	Ah, OK.
16:03	brehaut	Borkdude: i need a link to the code you are talking about
16:03	Borkdude	brehaut: ok, wait
16:04	Borkdude	brehaut: https://gist.github.com/1362567
16:04	Borkdude	brehaut: if clone-for returns a nested function
16:04	brehaut	Borkdude: so are you refering to the argument to content ?
16:05	Borkdude	brehaut: then what would an application to it look like?
16:05	brehaut	Borkdude: https://github.com/cgrand/enlive/blob/master/src/net/cgrand/enlive_html.clj#L658-661
16:06	brehaut	Borkdude: clone-for is a special case here; it uses a macro to generate the function rather than creating it through closuring
16:06	brehaut	Borkdude: but it still creates a function from node -> nodes
16:06	Borkdude	brehaut: ah, that's why I was confused
16:07	Borkdude	brehaut: but also constantly isn't nested right? I get node -> nodes, but not new-content -> node -> nodes like you suggested (I think)
16:07	Borkdude	new-content -> (node -> nodes) I mean
16:08	Borkdude	brb
16:09	brehaut	Borkdude: i dont understand what you mean about constantly not being nested
16:10	brehaut	constantly is defined as (defn constantly [x] (fn [& args] x))
16:21	Borkdude	brehaut: yes, so constantly doesn't return a nested function, but just a function that returns x
16:22	brehaut	Borkdude: i think we may have different notions of what a 'nested function' is
16:22	Borkdude	brehaut: my notion is: a function that returns a function
16:23	brehaut	Borkdude: thats _exactly_ what constantly is
16:23	Borkdude	brehaut: yes, but it doesn't _return_ a nested function
16:23	TimMc	uh...
16:24	TimMc	,(let [return-value (constantly 17)] (fn? return-value))
16:24	clojurebot	true
16:24	brehaut	Borkdude: lets use more precise terminology then. constantly returns an anonymous function that is within the lexical scope of the invocation constantly that returned, closing over constantly's argument
16:24	brehaut	Borkdude: thats the same as enlive's content and substitute
16:25	brehaut	also i fail at english
16:25	Borkdude	TimMc: you are just checking if the return-value is a function, not if it is a function that will return a function
16:25	Borkdude	brehaut: I'm just trying to understand
16:26	TimMc	Oh, it most certainly isn't. That's true.
16:26	brehaut	Borkdude: lets start with the basics. do you know what lexical scope is?
16:26	Borkdude	brehaut: yes
16:26	brehaut	Borkdude: and you understand that the inner function is closing over the containing functions lexical variables ?
16:27	Borkdude	brehaut: (constantly 3) returns a function of varargs that closes over the value 3
16:27	Borkdude	brehaut: right?
16:27	brehaut	right
16:28	brehaut	now; can you tell me why you think thathttps://github.com/cgrand/enlive/blob/master/src/net/cgrand/enlive_html.clj#L598-601 is a different construction to constantly?
16:30	Borkdude	brehaut: I think we can agree on "a transformation _is_ a function of --args-- that _returns_ a function of a node that closes over the --args--", right?
16:30	brehaut	yes
16:30	Borkdude	brehaut: ok
16:31	Borkdude	brehaut: then I think I'm starting to understand it ;-)
16:31	brehaut	Borkdude: phew :)
16:37	Borkdude	brehaut: some Haskell-ish notation would be helpful here maybe
16:37	Borkdude	brehaut: in the code itself
16:37	brehaut	Borkdude: it wouldnt hurt.
16:39	brehaut	data HTMLNode = Nil \| HTMLText String \| HTMLNode String (Map String String) [HTMLNode]
16:39	brehaut	content :: HTMLNode -> HTMLNode -> HTMLNode
16:39	brehaut	;)
16:40	brehaut	substitute :: HTMLNode -> HTMLNode -> HTMLNode
16:40	brehaut	not really all that clarifying is it ;P
16:41	churib	is there a way to get all symbols of an namespace?
16:43	brehaut	&(keys (ns-map 'clojure.core)) ;; churib
16:43	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! ns-map is bad!
16:43	brehaut	hah. well, try that in your own repl churib
16:43	Borkdude	brehaut: hmm... that brings us to, what would it look like for clone-for? ;)
16:43	brehaut	Borkdude: my template haskell is weak ;)
16:44	churib	brehaut: thanks!
16:45	djanatyn	how feasible would it be to write a game in 48 hours, and then distribute it publically with clojure?
16:46	djanatyn	I'm thinking of entering a 48 hour game-making competition - I did it last time with python and pygame
16:46	brehaut	djanatyn: distribution would be trivial; lein uberjar would create a self contained jar file that you could run
16:46	djanatyn	the competition is in 33 days - would it be possible?
16:46	djanatyn	yeah, I saw lein had some really cool distribution things when I was playing with it.
16:46	djanatyn	but how is the library situation for making games?
16:47	djanatyn	I'm not really interested in learning clojure to make games, but I think this might be a cool opportunity to force myself to write some real clojure code
16:47	brehaut	djanatyn: i dont know if there is anything that is analogous to pygame
16:47	brehaut	partly because pygame is all over the place wrt what it provides
16:47	djanatyn	my friend tomoj linked me this: https://github.com/jvillste/clojure-lwjgl
16:48	djanatyn	i've never used lwjgl before, not really sure what it is
16:48	djanatyn	I've used SDL with perl and python with pygame
16:48	tomoj	https://github.com/ztellman/penumbra
16:48	tomoj	then wrap whatever else from lwjgl you want
16:50	tomoj	maybe that clojure-lwjgl library is good, no docs it seems. at least inspiration
16:53	tomoj	https://github.com/ztellman/penumbra/blob/master/test/example/game/asteroids.clj
16:59	Borkdude	brehaut: how would you go about removing all things from the html that have class="welcome"
16:59	Borkdude	brehaut: I have [:.welcome] (enlive/substitute nil)
16:59	Borkdude	brehaut: but it only removes one
17:00	brehaut	Borkdude: (enlive/transform doc [:.welcome] (enlive/subsitute nil))
17:01	brehaut	Borkdude: i probably wouldnt use an at form to do it (or a snippet or template which have implicit ats)
17:05	Borkdude	brehaut: how would I use this inside a deftemplate?
17:06	brehaut	Borkdude: i dont think you would
17:06	Borkdude	brehaut: so deftemplate kind of presumes that every selector,transform pair is only applied once?
17:07	brehaut	i think so?
17:07	brehaut	ive never tried to do anything super fancy with deftemplates
17:08	Borkdude	brehaut: maybe I should just make a second html file... but I'm too lazy ;-)
17:08	brehaut	lol
17:08	brehaut	how about you just use a html-resource, an at, a transform and an emit*
17:08	brehaut	rather than the special case that template wraps up for you
17:10	Borkdude	brehaut: ok, let me check that out, tnx
17:10	brehaut	(deftemplate name "my.html" [args] atstuff…) is roughly (defn name [args] (at (html-resource "my.html") atstuff…))
17:10	Borkdude	Perfect!
17:10	brehaut	Borkdude: although it caches the html-resource
17:19	daaku	what's the right way to deal with destructuring in macros defining functions? let should do the trick, but i'm wondering if that's the idiomatic way. this gist should explain better: https://gist.github.com/f2e1c00a93826b40dd34
17:19	Borkdude	brehaut: ah wait, deftemplate worked ok, but I just made a mistake in the html
17:19	Borkdude	brehaut: two class attributes... oopz
17:20	brehaut	ah lol :)
17:32	ohpauleez	finally home after the conj- I can feel my brain coming back together
17:32	Borkdude	I guess this is working then finally with some Enlive templates :) http://whosnotfollowingme.herokuapp.com/
17:34	dnolen	ohpauleez: was lots of fun.
17:34	Borkdude	brehaut, TimMc : tnx for helping, learned a lot today
17:34	brehaut	Borkdude: no problem
17:36	jimduey	ohpauleez: me too. It was a blast.
17:37	ohpauleez	dnolen: jimduey: Totally. One of the most fun, educational, and inspiring trips I've had in awhile. I'm reading through a new stack of papers as we speak
17:48	djanatyn	penumbra is pretty great
17:54	ohpauleez	djanatyn: What are you using it for? Or just playing around with it
17:54	djanatyn	ohpauleez: Well, I haven't used it yet at all. I cloned the git repo, not really sure how to work with it.
17:55	djanatyn	I've been learning common lisp, and I really like lisp and want to start using it. There's a 48 hour game-making competition coming up in a little bit over a month, and I figured that maybe the library situation would be better with clojure.
17:55	djanatyn	I'm not really sure how to do distribution with common lisp, either.
17:56	djanatyn	It seems like most people advocate bundling a common lisp interpreter with your program, but I'm not sure how to do that either
17:56	djanatyn	a quicklisp is a little intimidating for me, at least.
17:56	djanatyn	s/a/and
17:58	ohpauleez	ahh, gotcha - well, welcome to Clojure! There's been some great success making games in Clojure
17:58	djanatyn	awesome :)
17:59	djanatyn	i'm really interesting in functional programming, too
17:59	djanatyn	however, the only thing i've ever written in a vaguely functional style was a little haskell script
18:00	djanatyn	I can grok lisp a lot easier than haskell, and it looks like clojure's distribution is super easy with lein (I've had distribution issues in the past), so I'm excited
18:05	zerokarmaleft	when using cljs-watch, is bootstrap.js the only thing that needs to be pulled in?
18:06	dnolen	zerokarmaleft: what do you mean?
18:07	zerokarmaleft	dnolen: from within an html file
18:08	djanatyn	does clojure sepreate pure and non-pure functions in the same way as haskell?
18:08	brehaut	djanatyn: no
18:08	brehaut	djanatyn: if by 'the same way' you mean via the type system
18:08	dnolen	zerokarmaleft: you don't need to include bootstrap.js, just whatever output file you specified.
18:10	bhenry	i want the overtone presentation video asap! (i never use "asap," but this time it's deserving)
18:11	djanatyn	hmm, weird.
18:11	djanatyn	so clojure doesn't have, like, an IO type?
18:11	dnolen	djanatyn: no, it has reference types. we have statement management, we just don't rely a type system for such things.
18:11	dnolen	er state management
18:14	zerokarmaleft	dnolen: i'm just running cljs-watch with no args, so the default output is bootstrap.js
18:15	TimMc	djanatyn: This is a good read: http://www.clojure.org/state
18:15	dnolen	zerokarmaleft: ok, then yes that should work.
18:15	zerokarmaleft	i'm able to get an inferior-lisp repl connected to the browser fine that way, i just seem to be missing dom functions
18:15	dnolen	zerokarmaleft: did you switch into your namespace? you need to eval your ns form to do that.
18:15	zerokarmaleft	yes
18:16	dnolen	zerokarmaleft: so dom/getElement is not working?
18:16	zerokarmaleft	for instance, append and get-element work, but not much else
18:16	dnolen	zerokarmaleft: oh are you trying to use cljs dom namespace? not the google one?
18:17	dnolen	I wouldn't do that. I think cljs dom is half-baked at this point.
18:19	zerokarmaleft	dnolen: ah ok, that's it then!
19:30	gfredericks	I just used the {:strs ...} destructuring form for the first time.
19:30	gfredericks	in case any of you were wondering.
19:33	klauern	gfredericks: I'm new to clojure, what is that?
19:33	klauern	I know sort of what destructuring is, but only on a var-args defn kind of way
19:33	Raynes	gfredericks: Not sure I'm familiar with that there non-existent form.
19:34	gfredericks	,(let [{:strs [foo bar]} {"foo" 734, "bar" [1 2 3]}] [foo bar])
19:34	clojurebot	[734 [1 2 3]]
19:34	gfredericks	Raynes: did I misdescribe something?
19:34	Raynes	Oh, cool!
19:35	gfredericks	Raynes: also :syms
19:35	Raynes	You have to write blog posts about this.
19:35	gfredericks	one for :strs and one for :syms?
19:35	klauern	these kinds of things seem kind of magical to me
19:36	klauern	Where do you pull up the docs for that kind of thing?
19:36	gfredericks	klauern: :keys is the one most people are familiar with, and it seems a bit cryptic until you've written (let [{foo :foo, bar :bar} m] ...) a million times
19:37	klauern	Yeah, part of it is that is seems fairly non-obvious that you'll get some sort of modified result because of a :symbol being there
19:37	gfredericks	klauern: http://clojure.org/special_forms#Special Forms--(let [bindings* ] exprs*)
19:38	klauern	ah, got it
19:38	klauern	well, I'm off to read something for a bit ;)
19:38	gfredericks	klauern: have fun
19:39	gfredericks	klauern: I was trying to link to the section on let, in case the whitespace in that link mucked things up
19:39	klauern	ah, yeah, %20 would work to hack around those spaces
19:39	gfredericks	should be easy enough to find it manually
19:40	klauern	http://clojure.org/special_forms#Special Forms--(let%20[bindings%20]%20exprs)
19:40	klauern	http://clojure.org/special_forms#Special%20Forms--(let%20[bindings%20]%20exprs)
19:40	klauern	whoops
19:42	klauern	Something that I was confused for a while in Clojure was that the terminology used seemed academic. For instance, alot of the time I was thinking "why aren't they just calling that a method", but then I realized that Clojure (and I suppose Lisps in general) have alot of nuance in behavior, so method wouldn't work in some cases, etc.
19:42	klauern	Now I'm starting to get a handle on the language a bit better, but it's tricky trying to learn something that has such depth to it compared to OO/Imperative languages
19:44	gfredericks	klauern: my impression is that "method" is an OO word referring specifically to a "function on an object"
19:44	gfredericks	probably it's used more loosely than that most of the time though :/
19:45	klauern	Well, in general I see things like 'lexical binding' and then get confused for a second since it's not easily transferrable to other languages I work with.
19:45	klauern	binding in particular
19:45	klauern	destructuring is neat and something that opens up a nice world of flexibility
19:45	klauern	I'm not even up to learning protocols and multimethods, so it's still a fun ride ahead for me
19:46	pnicholson	Hey, I'm trying to play with overtone and am getting "CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unable to resolve classname: File"
19:46	gfredericks	do you need to import it?
19:47	gfredericks	klauern: it is fun stuff.
19:47	pnicholson	I don't think so… https://github.com/overtone/overtone/blob/master/src/overtone/helpers/file.clj#L151 is the line is failing on
19:48	klauern	I like the organic nature to it. "Growing a language" and all that
19:49	gfredericks	pnicholson: I don't see File imported at the top, so I'm not sure why that would be expected to work. Does the library have tests you can run?
19:49	gfredericks	klauern: have you seen rich's Simple Made Easy talk?
19:50	pnicholson	gfredericks: file is part of the io package right?
19:50	gfredericks	pnicholson: java.io.File is a java class, and those have to be imported separately from clojure namespaces
19:51	gfredericks	I would expect adding an (:import java.io.File) to the ns declaration at the top of that file would make the error go away
19:51	klauern	gfredericks: That is a good video. He mentions that one slide should be used as a reference for something, but that slide is full of concepts that I'm not even familiar with to know what they are, so I'm trudging along with a book or two and some minor pet projects to get a feel for the language
19:52	pnicholson	gfredericks: hmm….this stuff was demoed at the conj yesterday
19:52	zerokarmaleft	dnolen: have you posted your slides anywhere yet?
19:52	gfredericks	pnicholson: yeah, it sounds like a popular lib, so I'm weirded out a bit
19:52	dnolen	zerokarmaleft: not yet, I'll try to get them added to the conj slide repo soon.
19:53	zerokarmaleft	cool
21:01	alexbaranosky	I'm far enough into installing emacs to realize I suck at it
21:01	alexbaranosky	I've clone Sam Aaron's emacs files
21:02	alexbaranosky	I stuck them in the .emacs.d folder
21:03	alexbaranosky	I couldn't tell for sure if I had done it right so I tried to do something simple (to my mind) which was install a color theme
21:04	alexbaranosky	I put the color theme .el file into .emacs.d/config/ and tried to do M-x color-theme-tango, to which Emacs replied [No match]... What does no match mean exactly, and have I done something utterly wrong?
21:05	alexbaranosky	is Emacs somehow not finding the file?
21:08	brehaut	alexbaranosky: im not an expert or anything, but have you done a (require …) for the theme.el?
21:21	alexbaranosky	brehaut: in the color-theme-tango.el file?
21:22	brehaut	in your init.el ?
21:22	alexbaranosky	I'm still learning the whole Emacs ecosystems, so I'm probably missing something obvious
21:22	alexbaranosky	let me check
21:31	alexbaranosky	brehaut: seems to be working if I add: (require 'color-theme)
21:31	alexbaranosky	(color-theme-initialize)
21:31	alexbaranosky	(color-theme-robin-hood) to the .emacs file
21:31	alexbaranosky	however, the theme doesn't look like I thought it was supposed to
21:31	alexbaranosky	I think I hear themes work differently between GUI emacs and terminal Emacs
21:35	duck1123	alexbaranosky: they do look a little different depending on the settings of your terminal
21:36	duck1123	usually you just have to try them all till you find one that works for you
21:37	alexbaranosky	do most folks use the GUI Emacs or the terminal version?
21:37	amalloy	or modify one you almost-like
21:37	alexbaranosky	I'm fond of that ;)
21:38	duck1123	I'd say that most use the gui if they have it available
21:38	alexbaranosky	amalloy: I used 'macro-do` yesterday
21:38	alexbaranosky	amalloy: and `juxt`. Thought you'd be proud
21:39	amalloy	chuckle
21:40	amalloy	macro-do is one i try to avoid using - it's tempting to use macros when in fact functions are sufficient
21:41	alexbaranosky	I almost never write macros
21:43	amalloy	alexbaranosky: out of curiosity do you have a link handy for your use of macro-do?
21:45	alexbaranosky	yes. I was cleaning up some Midje code, replacing a few (map (fn []...)) spots with (for [] and ran into a spot where we're generating 10 checkers, let me show you the link
21:46	alexbaranosky	Last lines of: https://github.com/marick/Midje/blob/master/src/midje/checkers/collection.clj
21:49	amalloy	i see. yes, it's hard to avoid when the underlying form you want to generate is a macro
21:49	amalloy	btw, you can link to a specific line on github by clicking the line number in the left margin
21:50	alexbaranosky	thx
21:51	alexbaranosky	hmmm, my dark background theme (tango) comes out with a white background... weird
21:52	amalloy	alexbaranosky: i use tty-dark, if you want to give that a try
21:55	alexbaranosky	let me show you my `juxt`spot: https://github.com/marick/Midje/blob/master/src/midje/ideas/metaconstants.clj#L23
21:58	alexbaranosky	amalloy: (I'm clearly failing badly at the color theme setup... I have to go back to square one. Don't think it was really working when I thought it was)
22:26	daaku	any vim users know if there's a way do something along the lines of set lispwords+=def* (which doesnt work) to make anything starting with def a lispword?
23:15	daaku	i remember running into some debugging macro that logged a form and returned it, anyone know what its called?
23:16	daaku	found it: spy
23:57	klauern	When documenting a (defn), is there a preferred format, much like Ruby's RDoc, or Java's Javadoc format?