#clojure – 2011-10-12

2011-10-12

01:20	qed	He had to modem in to the agency and say that there was an emergency and that he was posting an e-note on a colleague's TP asking her to cover his calls for the rest of the week because he'd be out of contact for several days due to this emergency. He had to put an audio message on his answering device saying that starting that afternoon he was going to be unreachable for several days.
01:21	qed	Expressivity is nebulous.
01:26	pdk	i'm reading proust in 2 lines
01:27	jli	well then
01:30	qed	pdk: I don't follow
01:31	jli	not sure how I FEEL about this http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2011/04/born_digital.php
01:32	qed	jli: your emphasis on "FEEL" worries me
01:32	qed	I ranted on HN the other day about the reactions to Dart -- so superficial and full of emotion
01:33	qed	"feel" is a recipe for poor decision-making
01:33	qed	unless it is well-tempered by reality
01:34	jli	what were the reactions? something along the lines of "WHY BOTHER WE HAVE JAVASCRIPT"?
01:35	qed	jli: to respond to that link: I think the only reason we wonder is because we're secretly afraid we're dinosaurs
01:35	qed	and the truth is: we are.
01:36	qed	by the same token, we're just getting warmed up
01:36	ivan__	im sure this arguement is made every generation
01:36	ivan__	about different stuff
01:37	qed	ivan__: indeed. it is an age-old argument.
01:37	ivan__	i rofl when people say that creativity is dying
01:37	jli	I accept being a 20-something grouchy old man
01:37	qed	jli: if you were truly grouchy you couldn't type that with confidence
01:37	qed	clearly you aren't a grouchy old man
01:38	qed	ivan__: Books! Print is dead! Long live the web! (btw, I like physical copies of books, do you have XYZ?)
01:38	qed	(I'll pay for it)
01:39	ivan__	they had it so good in the olden days, what with much lower life expectancies, no real medical knowledge, having to hand wash clothes etc etc
01:40	qed	Anyway, this rant brought to you by: people's reaction to Dart, the sorry state of communication in our communities, and lack of personal responsibility
01:40	qed	ivan__: heh -- I MISS OUTHOUSES! OH BOY WE HAD IT SO GOOD WITHOUT PLUMBING!
01:41	ivan__	how about lead piping :)
01:41	jli	temperments are remarkably robust
01:42	todun	srid: ok.
01:47	todun	brehaut: require what?
02:15	lnostdal	i'm not sure where to begin looking, but perhaps someone already knows how to go about getting Meta-Point (Alt-. or "slime-edit-definition") to lead to the actual source files of some dependency and not just the (read-only) contents of .jar files?
02:42	tomoj	lnostdal: I think you want checkout dependencies?
02:43	tomoj	e.g. in leiningen create a checkouts directory in the root of the project and put symlinks in it to other leiningen projects you depend on
02:43	todun	finally got emacs for clojure up and running.
02:43	todun	thanks for all the help.
02:44	tomoj	then M-. will go to the source file in the other project because lein has put the symlinked code on the classpath
02:45	lnostdal	cool, will try that, tomoj .. thanks :)
02:45	clojurebot	thanks for your suggestion, but as usual it is irrelevant
02:45	tomoj	note you still need to explicitly include the dep in your project.clj
02:45	lnostdal	clojurebot, be quiet you
02:45	clojurebot	I don't understand.
02:45	lnostdal	ok
02:45	amalloy	(inc clojurebot)
02:45	lazybot	⟹ 5
02:46	todun	I'm following the steps for newbies at http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started
02:46	todun	I'm trying to do https://github.com/relevance/labrepl
02:46	todun	do I just download it into some folder then
02:46	todun	at the repl do lein ?
02:47	tomoj	seems strange that the readme doesn't say how to use it
02:48	todun	tomoj: I didn't quite follow the readme. sorry about that.
02:49	todun	tomoj: all I really see is that I should run the test with lein test...not sure what tests or why
02:50	tomoj	no clue, sorry, never used it
02:51	tomoj	just seems like a funny readme for a project for people new to clojure.. :)
02:51	tomoj	maybe they're supposed to find it some other way?
02:51	todun	tomoj: oh ok. I linked to it from the newbie page I listed above.
02:52	tomoj	http://foognostic.net/labrepl-summary/
02:52	tomoj	looks like there are some working instructions there
02:52	todun	tomoj: thanks. checking it out now..
02:52	tomoj	of course, if you're set up with swank.. :/
02:53	todun	tomoj: swank...how do I do so, what can it do for me?
02:53	todun	I just finished with leiningen, emacs start kit
02:53	tomoj	hmm
02:53	todun	I dont mind throwing in swank in there if it's useful
02:53	tomoj	have you got a clojure repl inside emacs?
02:54	todun	tomoj: how do I check if I do?
02:55	tomoj	uhh, dunno
02:55	tomoj	you'd have to have set something up
02:55	tomoj	dunno what you've done already
02:55	todun	tomoj: ok.
02:56	tomoj	did you set up marmalade like it says at http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started+with+Emacs ?
02:56	todun	yes
02:56	tomoj	think you should be able to install slime, slime-repl, clojure-mode from it
02:56	todun	ok. how so?
02:57	todun	to what end?
02:57	ibdknox	todun: what editor do you normally use? I'm not sure that trying to learn emacs while also trying to learn Clojure is a wise decision
02:57	tomoj	https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure
02:57	tomoj	readme here is helpful too
02:59	todun	ibdknox: I'm trying to get more comfortable with emacs. so I'll be using emacs. Everything about emacs I'm familiar with, it's just that using M-x as a way to install stuff is so cool and new to me that I'm curious to know more.
02:59	todun	anyways, using it for typing and such I'm familiar with
02:59	ibdknox	righto
03:00	tomoj	slime is an emacs package for working with lisps
03:01	tomoj	swank-clojure provides clojure support, the readme there describes setup
03:01	tomoj	just need to `M-x package-install` slime-repl and clojure-mode I think
03:01	tomoj	plus the lein plugin in the readme there
03:02	tomoj	maybe clojure-mode depends on slime now, dunno..
03:03	todun	tomoj: it's installing with lein now..
03:04	tomoj	so I imagine script/swank in labrepl is what you want, then M-x slime-connect to get into the repl
03:04	todun	tomoj: what do I do after I start the swine sever?
03:04	tomoj	or maybe you can just jack in to labrepl..?
03:04	todun	tomoj: when I try to start the swine server, I get the following error:
03:04	todun	Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "Could not start swank server: Couldn't find project.clj, which is needed for jack-in
03:04	todun	")
03:04	todun	signal(error ("Could not start swank server: Couldn't find project.clj, which is needed for jack-in\n"))
03:04	todun	error("Could not start swank server: %s" "Couldn't find project.clj, which is needed for jack-in\n")
03:04	todun	clojure-jack-in-sentinel(#<process swank> "exited abnormally with code 1\n")
03:04	amalloy	heehee. swine server. a lovely combination of swank/slime
03:05	todun	oops! sorry people, I should have pastebined that
03:05	todun	amalloy: haha. actually that was a typo. but it's all good.
03:05	tomoj	hmm, I dunno anything about jack-in..
03:06	tomoj	if you're running script/swank in labrepl I think you'd want to M-x slime-connect, not use jack-in. if you're jacking in I guess you need to do it while visiting a file in labrepl's project directory
03:08	todun	tomoj: I don't follow. I'm using the instructions at https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure
03:09	todun	tomoj: doing it with your suggestion, where do I get to labrepl for instance?
03:09	tomoj	that is, you're running M-x clojure-jack-in ?
03:10	todun	yes
03:10	tomoj	hmm
03:11	tomoj	don't know how that would work
03:11	todun	tomoj: dont know what it does. you're suggesting I try labrepl.
03:11	todun	how so?
03:12	tomoj	the only easy way I see is to download labrepl and run script/swank
03:12	tomoj	then in emacs do `M-x slime-connect` instead of `M-x clojure-jack-in`
03:13	tomoj	just curious, what platform are you on?
03:14	todun	osx
03:14	tomoj	whew
03:14	todun	tomoj: I should follow the instructions here http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started+with+Emacs ?
03:14	todun	tomoj: whew?
03:15	tomoj	all of the instructions there up to "... install clojure-mode by pressing M-x package-install and choosing clojure-mode."
03:16	tomoj	then download labrepl and run script/swank inside it, and M-x slime-connect from emacs
03:16	nybbles	anyone know how i can get sort and floor functions? i gather than i have to install math.numeric-tower, but not sure how to do that using leiningen
03:18	todun	tomoj: downloading labrepl by zip? if so, then what? https://github.com/relevance/labrepl
03:19	ibdknox	,(doc sort)
03:19	clojurebot	"([coll] [comp coll]); Returns a sorted sequence of the items in coll. If no comparator is supplied, uses compare. comparator must implement java.util.Comparator."
03:19	ibdknox	,(doc floor)
03:19	clojurebot	Pardon?
03:19	ibdknox	,(Math/floor 3.12434545)
03:19	clojurebot	3.0
03:19	ibdknox	nybbles: ^
03:19	tomoj	todun: do you know how to use the terminal?
03:20	ibdknox	nybbles: you don't need anything special for sort or floor
03:20	tomoj	,clojure-version
03:20	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 3, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
03:21	tomoj	,(require 'clojure.math.numeric-tower)
03:21	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/math/numeric_tower__init.class or clojure/math/numeric_tower.clj on classpath: >
03:21	nybbles	ibdknox: ahhhh okay i'll try it out
03:21	tomoj	the floor there just behaves differently than the regular one?
03:22	ibdknox	huh?
03:22	todun	tomoj: yes. I'm using it now.
03:22	ibdknox	how can floor behave differently?
03:22	todun	tomoj: but I'm no terminal guru or anything like that.
03:22	tomoj	todun: ok, you just need to unzip labrepl, cd into it, and you will find a script/swank inside it, run that
03:23	todun	tomoj: ok. will do. apprise you of my progress..
03:25	todun	tomoj: all I did was double click it. will that give the same effect?
03:27	tomoj	maybe.. I don't remember osx very well
03:27	tomoj	if it works, http://localhost:8080/ should have clojure stuff on it
03:28	todun	tomoj: I ask because I get this error when I run it from terminal like so
03:28	todun	http://pastebin.com/S4kvEg49
03:28	todun	tomoj: localhost is error for me
03:29	tomoj	run `lein deps` in labrepl first
03:31	todun	tomoj: but I dont have labrepl, or I thought I didn't hence all this.
03:31	tomoj	hmm
03:32	tomoj	where'd script/swank come from?
03:32	ibdknox	todun: he means in the project directory
03:32	todun	tomoj: the download of labrepl
03:32	tomoj	right.. where you typed `script/swank` type `lein deps` first
03:33	todun	ibdknox: oh ok.
03:33	todun	tomoj: k..
03:33	todun	downloading..
03:34	todun	then do 'script/swank' ?
03:34	tomoj	yep
03:35	todun	uhm ok. nice. it started another repl.
03:35	todun	thanks guys.
03:35	todun	tomoj: what does this do for me? how does it differ from lein's repl?
03:36	todun	which should I use now that I have this setup?
03:36	tomoj	by "lein's repl" do you mean something you got by running `lein repl`?
03:37	tomoj	script/swank just starts up labrepl, so you can get to it at http://localhost:8080/ and connect from emacs with M-x slime-connect
03:37	todun	tomoj: yes
03:37	tomoj	normally you can just jack-in to your project or run `lein swank` in the project directory
03:37	tomoj	once you start building your own projects
03:38	Blkt	good morning everyone
03:38	tomoj	it differs from `lein repl` because you can connect to it in slime to have the repl in emacs
03:39	tomoj	then you get code completion and lookup and macroexpansion etc in emacs too
03:39	tomoj	as opposed to trying to balance parentheses on a repl in some terminal
03:40	todun	tomoj: I tried M-x, slime-connect...that didn't work.
03:41	todun	tomoj: it seems you're saying that I can use emacs to write my code then M-x slime-connect to sort of "compile" it?
03:41	tomoj	when you ran `script/swank`, did it say "Starting swank..."
03:41	tomoj	and perhaps "Connection opened on local port 4005" ?
03:42	tomoj	..or did it just give you a repl in the terminal there?
03:42	tomoj	I guess it starts a repl in the terminal too
03:44	tomoj	M-x slime-connect hooks slime up to a running jvm with the project's code (in this case, the labrepl code), so you get a repl inside emacs
03:44	tomoj	then you can also load files you're working on in that running jvm once connected, with C-c C-k
03:44	tomoj	among other things, I think summarized in the swank-clojure readme
03:44	ejackson	morning all
03:44	todun	tomoj: I said that, yes. Clojure 1.3.0-beta1 Starting swank...
03:45	todun	tomoj: then the repl
03:45	todun	in terminal
03:46	tomoj	hrmm
03:46	todun	tomoj: ok. now I have the option of doing M-x, clojure-jack-in
03:47	todun	should I do it?
03:47	tomoj	well
03:47	tomoj	you could
03:47	tomoj	do it starting from a file in the labrepl project directory
03:47	tomoj	the problem is, labrepl has some extra startup code sitting off in script/run.clj
03:48	tomoj	this is what script/swank is supposed to run, but yours apparently fails to start swank
03:48	tomoj	if you C-x C-f to, say, project.clj in the labrepl directory, and run M-x clojure-jack-in, it should start swank and give you a repl
03:49	todun	tomoj: oh ok. my next question answered. don't delete the zip folder downloaded from labrepl, it will break everything, yes?
03:49	tomoj	yeah you need that to use labrepl
03:51	todun	does it matter if I move the dir i dowloaded?
03:52	tomoj	you can move it, but don't move it while you're connected with jack-in or slime-connect or editing files in it
03:54	todun	tomoj: dont have slime-connect in emacs just jacked-in
03:55	tomoj	ah, right
03:55	todun	tomoj: when I do jack-in I get a similar error like before...
03:55	tomoj	jack-in sends slime over the wire
03:55	todun	http://pastebin.com/TSagcJr0
03:55	tomoj	you could do M-x package-install slime-repl
03:55	tomoj	then you should have M-x slime-connect
03:55	tomoj	dunno how to get jack-in working, I never use it
03:56	todun	tomoj: I have slime-(stuff) not connect though
03:56	tomoj	weird
03:56	todun	tomoj: oh. so I dont need jack-in
03:56	todun	just slime?
03:56	tomoj	jack-in is the currently recommended method I think
03:56	tomoj	I just do it the old way because I haven't figured jack-in out yet
03:57	todun	tomoj: what is this old way, if you dont mind my asking(I just want to get this up and running so I can write beautiful clojure)?
03:57	tomoj	the old way, you install slime-repl (and slime, slime-repl depends on slime, so you can just install slime-repl) with package-install, run `lein swank` (`script/swank` for labrepl), and M-x slime-connect
04:00	todun	tomoj: ok, trying that now..
04:00	todun	btw, all I need is the script/swank dir, right?
04:01	todun	that is to say, I can get rid of everything else....
04:04	tomoj	no
04:05	tomoj	certainly some of the stuff in there you don't need, but just keep it all
04:08	todun	tomoj: ok. will try all you said and let you know asap
04:11	todun	tomoj: when I launch emacs, must I be in script/ ?
04:13	tomoj	doesn't matter
04:19	todun	k. I'm guessing because of the setup at path, yes?
04:22	tomoj	dunno what you mean
04:22	tomoj	emacs is happy to run from anywhere
04:23	tomoj	it's common to only run one emacs
04:28	amalloy	chouser: i see you finished all of our dang problems. mission accomplished?
04:30	todun	tomoj: ok.
04:31	todun	tomoj: Ok I tried the following : install slime-repl (and slime, slime-repl depends on slime, so you can just install slime repl) with package-install, run `lein swank` (`script/swank` for labrepl), and M-x slime-connect
04:31	todun	install slime-repl works.
04:31	todun	lein-swank says...
04:31	todun	Couldn't find project.clj, which is needed for swank
04:31	todun	that was step 2.
04:32	todun	step 3 is M-x slime-connect
04:32	tomoj	if you want to run labrepl, run `script/swank` in the labrepl dir
04:32	todun	it asks for port localhost etc, then says...
04:32	tomoj	don't run `lein swank`
04:32	todun	make client process failed: connection refused, :name, SLIME Lisp, :buffer, nil, :host, 127.0.0.1, :service,\
04:32	todun	4005, :nowait, nil
04:33	todun	tomoj: oh ok. why not though?
04:33	tomoj	it fails to run extra labrepl startup code
04:33	tomoj	which will make things easier when using labrepl
04:35	todun	tomoj: that's 'lein swank' I presume.
04:35	todun	tomoj: as per the slime-connect issue, what's up with that error?
04:36	tomoj	you didn't start swank
04:37	todun	I thought I did as per your instructions.
04:37	tomoj	you either have to run script/swank in the labrepl dir or `lein swank` in any lein project dir to start swank first
04:37	tomoj	when it said "Couldn't find project.clj, which is needed for swank", it meant that it failed to start, I believe
04:38	tomoj	probably because you weren't in a project directory when running `lein swank`
04:39	todun	tomoj: what is a project dir then? I have a folder that I've been dumping all the stuff into.
04:39	tomoj	the labrepl zip you downloaded contained the labrepl project dir
04:40	tomoj	if you cd into it, and run `script/swank`, it should start swank for the labrepl projec
04:40	tomoj	a project dir is just a dir that contains a project.clj file
04:46	todun	tomoj: ok will try that. thanks.
05:23	eiro	hello
05:25	eiro	(line-seq (slurp "http://khatar.phear.org")) doesn't work because slup returns a string, not a reader
05:25	eiro	any function to return http flow line by line ?
05:25	raek	eiro: you probably want to use clojure.java.io/reader here
05:26	raek	slurp is an alternative to line-seq + reader for the case when you want one big string
05:28	eiro	actually i don't want a big stream but i thought everything was lazy so slurp read my http flow line by line
05:28	eiro	i investigate reader
05:29	raek	line-seq reads lines lazilly
05:29	raek	in clojure only seqs are lazy so slurp has to be strict since it returns a (java) string
05:31	raek	so to print each line in the stream: (let [stream (reader url)] (doseq [line (line-seq stream)] (println line)) (.close stream))
05:31	raek	the (let [x ...] ... (.close x)) thing can be replaced by (with-open [x ...] ...)
05:32	raek	(which additionally makes sure that .close is called even when an exception is thrown)
05:44	eiro	i tried slurp* from contrib.io but it doesn't work
05:44	eiro	it seems i have a classpath pb: i can't figure out where contrib is installed :)
05:46	raek	eiro: you don't need contrib for this. the stuff in contrib.io became clojure.java.io in clojure 1.2
05:46	raek	and slurp is now in clojure.core
05:46	eiro	slurp* isn't :)
05:46	raek	eiro: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.java.io
05:47	raek	eiro: what was the difference from slurp?
05:47	raek	some functions was refactored in the process. the "new way" is the recommended one
05:48	eiro	raek, it seems to me that slup returns a string when slurp* returns a "stream"
05:48	eiro	ok so with-open is my friend
05:48	eiro	i want to fix my classpath pb anyway :)
05:48	raek	eiro: ah. originally clojure.core only accepted a filename as a string as its argument
05:48	raek	but since clojure 1.2 it calls clojure.io.reader to open the stream
05:49	eiro	oh
05:49	eiro	ok
05:49	raek	so it accepts streams just like clojure.contrib.io/slurp*
05:49	raek	slurp* accepted a stream. it did not return one
05:50	raek	eiro: for the classpath problems, use a build tool like Leiningen to manage dependency libraries (e.g. contrib) and the classpath for you
05:51	raek	if you just want to learn the language, you don't gain much by managing the classpath yourself
05:55	eiro	it seems i'll be hooked to closure soon :)
05:58	raek	eiro: http://pastebin.com/xKzVnmTX
06:00	eiro	thansk
06:00	eiro	raek, i use lein but it's boring when you have lot of scripts you want to launch
06:01	eiro	(or i missed something)
06:01	eiro	you have to file project.clj:main and test/script1.clj-main constantly
06:03	eiro	it seems i just have to put a jar in $CLOJURE_HOME :)
06:15	dbushenko	what's the most idiomatic way to write to file with clojure 1.3?
06:16	clgv	dbushenko: clojure.java.io
06:17	dbushenko	are there any examples? bcs I just don't understand this API
06:19	clgv	dbushenko: you can do something like (with-open [w (writer "my-file.txt)] (binding [out w] (print "My data text line")))
06:19	clgv	s/txt/txt"/
06:19	lazybot	<clgv> dbushenko: you can do something like (with-open [w (writer "my-file.txt")] (binding [out w] (print "My data text line")))
06:19	dbushenko	oh, this is great!
06:19	dbushenko	and how about reading?
06:19	dbushenko	what it could look like?
06:20	clgv	humm that depends what you write. do you write text lines like above?
06:20	dbushenko	yep
06:20	dbushenko	I know about slurp
06:20	dbushenko	but how to do that with clojure.java.io?
06:21	clgv	clojure.java.io is the namespace that contains reader and writer
06:22	clgv	for reading lines you can do: (with-open [r (reader "my-file.txt")] (line-seq r))
06:22	dbushenko	thanks!
07:20	raek	dbushenko: you need to force the whole seq inside the with-open form some how. either do the procedding there or add a doall: (with-open [r (reader "my-file.txt")] (doall (line-seq r)))
07:21	dbushenko	raek: thanks!
07:22	raek	also, reader/writer are for text. for binary data, use input-stream/output-stream. you might need to use java interop for those (see the javadoc for InputStream and OutputSteam for the methods)
07:25	raek	eiro: you can use lein run like this: "lein run some.other.namespace"
07:26	raek	eiro: sorry, that should be "lein run -m some.other.namespace"
07:27	raek	see "lein help run". it also explains how you can give the namespaces shorter aliases
07:30	todun	when I run 'lein swank' from a directory with project.clj in it, I get the following exception trace: http://pastebin.com/u6CwMWza
07:30	todun	am I doing something wrong?
07:31	raek	I think that happens when you have two versions of swank-clojure on the classpath at the same time
07:31	todun	the goal is to use emacs to write clojure.
07:31	raek	for instance one as a :dev-dependency and one as a leiningen plugin
07:31	todun	raek: oh ok. how do I remove it?
07:31	todun	raek: I first installed leiningen then emacs starter kit
07:32	todun	then I tried jack-in from emacs
07:32	todun	that didn't work
07:32	todun	then I installed labrepl
07:32	todun	then swine as per the recommendations of tomoj
07:32	raek	jack-in didn't work for a clean new project?
07:32	todun	raek: yes. hence the swine suggestion
07:32	raek	swine?
07:33	todun	raek: slime
07:33	raek	swank-clojure?
07:33	clojurebot	see swank
07:33	todun	raek: sorry. been making that mistake throughout the installation.
07:33	todun	raek: yes. swank
07:33	raek	sometimes a dependency brings in an old version of swank-clojure, and that can mess everything up
07:34	raek	todun: did you try jack-in for a clean leiningen project?
07:34	todun	raek: after all those installations, these are the steps I've taken to try to get this off the ground: -install slime-repl (and slime, slime-repl depends on slime,
07:34	todun	so you can just install slime-repl) with package-install,
07:34	todun	-run `lein swank` (`script/swank` for labrepl),
07:34	todun	and M-x slime-connect
07:34	raek	todun: also: do you want to work on your own project or someone else's?
07:34	todun	raek: on my own project.
07:35	todun	raek: if a clean project means, have I written any clojure code/script, no! I've been trying to make this work.
07:36	todun	raek: all the code I've done so far is in the repl so I can follow along the docs. will this make leiningen "unclean"?
07:36	raek	if you make a clean new project (lein new), remove everything in ~/.lein/plugins, install the swank-clojure plugin (lein plugin install swank-clojure 1.3.1) and then try jack-in, what happens?
07:37	raek	by "clean" I meant a project with no :dependencies declared in its project.clj file
07:38	raek	also, labrepl is a tutorial, I think. it will certainly not make it simpler to set up your IDE.
07:39	todun	raek, translating what you're saying to this. lein new, rm -rf ~/.lein/plugins, M-x install-package swank-clojure
07:40	todun	raek: from where in my dir should I run lein new?
07:40	todun	raek: is it from the place where I have my project.clj ?
07:41	raek	no, not M-x swank-clojure
07:41	raek	that is a deprecated elisp package that predates leiningen
07:42	raek	lein new myproject && rm -rf ~/.lein/plugins && cd myproject && lein plugin install swank-clojure 1.3.1
07:42	raek	then C-x C-f myproject/src/myproject/core.clj
07:42	raek	then M-x clojure-jack-in
07:42	todun	raek: myproject?
07:43	raek	the name you give to the project
07:43	todun	raek: I don't have a project. Do I need one?
07:43	raek	the project is the set of source files the clojure instance will have access to and the libraries it will use
07:43	raek	yes
07:43	todun	raek: what I mean is that I'm not sure what a project means here.
07:44	todun	raek: so is it like a java project?
07:44	raek	yes, the JVM doen't really like the "current working directory" approach
07:44	todun	raek: so I cannot have a folder for all my stuff.
07:44	raek	when you use lein to start the swank server, it will make sure that the source directories and all jars of the dependencies are on the classpath
07:45	raek	well, the project is a folder
07:46	todun	raek: will it allow me to have a "workspace" then separate folders in that workspace representing separate projects?
07:46	raek	sure
07:47	raek	a project is just a directory with a project.clj file in it and some other dirs (src/, lib/, test/, etc...)
07:48	raek	you can put the project folder in any other folder you like
07:48	todun	raek: can I use lein to create a new project then? so lets say I'm in some folder, I call 'lein make-project'. will it generate all that for me?
07:49	raek	todun: yes, calling "lein new myproject" will create the myproject/ folder in the current folder
07:50	todun	raek: now the folder it creates it in will be like my "workspace", correct?
07:50	raek	I guess. that folder does not have any special meaning for Leiningen, though
07:50	todun	raek: ok. just trying to wrap my mind around this all.
07:51	raek	put in Eclipse terms, that would be the Workspace
07:51	todun	raek: I'm trying the commands now...
07:51	raek	inside the project folder, you can use "lein repl" to get a repl in the terminal
07:52	raek	that repl can access the source files in src/ and all the dependencies of the project
07:53	raek	you use swank-clojure (indirectly, if you are using jack-in) when you want a repl in Emacs
07:53	todun	raek: ok. everything done. what is and where do I do then C-x C-f myproject/src/myproject/core.clj ?
07:53	todun	raek: in emacs
07:53	todun	raek: while in the /myproject ?
07:54	raek	todun: you need to open some file that belongs to the project. myproject/src/myproject/core.clj is a good place to start
07:55	raek	when you have that file opened (assuming you did the "lein plugin instal..." step) you should be able to do "M-x clojure-jack-in"
07:55	raek	and then a repl should pop up
07:56	todun	raek: all in emacs?
07:58	todun	raek: ok. doing that in emacs. It says starting swank server...
07:58	todun	raek: do I have to do all these steps for each project I make?
07:59	todun	can I not just have one universal project with the core.clj?
07:59	raek	you need to run "lein new ..", open a file in the project and invoke clojure-jack-in, yes
07:59	todun	raek: I get error in process filter: Symbol's value as variable is void: Copying
07:59	raek	sure. I think it's pretty common to have a "scratch" project
08:00	todun	when I do jack-in
08:00	raek	todun: that probably means you have installed an incompatible slime version in emacs
08:00	raek	try to remove all slime, slime-repl, swank-clojure, slime-clj and swank-clj packages
08:00	raek	only keep clojure-mode
08:01	raek	swank-clojure comes with a compatible version which clojure-jack-in uses
08:01	todun	raek: how do I remove all those?
08:01	raek	so you don't need to install slime
08:02	raek	M-x package-list-packages
08:04	raek	then you should be able to mark a package for deletion by pressing "d", I think
08:04	raek	and then "x" to apply
08:05	raek	if you don't have any important packages installed, maybe it's simpler to just wipe ~/.emacs.d/elpa/ and reinstall clojure-mode
08:07	todun	raek: trying all that now..
08:07	todun	raek: I have quite a few things there so I'll keep elpa
08:08	todun	so I should delete anything that has slime on it?
08:08	raek	yes
08:08	raek	and anything that mentions swank
08:09	todun	raek: I see these for slime: slime-clj 0.1.6 available Slime extensions for swank-clj
08:09	todun	slime-fuzzy 20100404 available Fuzzy symbol completion for Slime
08:09	todun	slime-ritz
08:10	todun	raek: so I move the cursor to the same line as 'slime-clj' press d and then x...
08:11	todun	emacs indicates I've selected nothing.
08:12	todun	raek: for swank, this is all I find: swank-cdt
08:24	raek	todun: if those are installed, remove them
08:24	todun	raek: yes. the d then x doesn't work for me though
08:26	jcromartie	hm, so you can't attach metadata to a ref huh
08:26	raek	I guess you can remove them from ~/.emacs.d/elpa/ manually
08:26	raek	jcromartie: alter-meta!
08:26	duck1123	I've never had much luck deleting packages through elpa
08:26	todun	raek: in there, I have slime-20100404.1 slime-repl-20100404
08:26	todun	delete those two folders?
08:27	raek	ok, delete those
08:27	todun	raek: ok. done.
08:27	jcromartie	interesting, thanks raek
08:27	raek	jcromartie: with-meta returns a new object, but for a ref you want to change the meat for the ref
08:27	jcromartie	ah ha... that makes sense
08:28	raek	todun: restart emacs and try clojure-jack-in again
08:28	jcromartie	this is perfect :) thanks
08:29	todun	raek: ok. it seems to work. I get this: ; SLIME 20100404
08:29	todun	user>
08:29	raek	todun: congratulations!
08:30	todun	raek: how do I write clojure code
08:30	todun	I'm guessing you just run your code in that repl
08:30	raek	you can evaluate expression in the repl directly
08:30	raek	yes
08:30	raek	quickly on how to use source files:
08:31	raek	add (defn hello [] (println "Hello, world!")) below the (ns ...) line in myproject/core.clj
08:31	raek	press C-c C-k in that buffer
08:32	raek	and then C-c M-p <RET> (after this, the repl should change to myproject.core>)
08:32	raek	then you can eval (hello) in the repl
08:32	raek	when you make changes to a defn or a def, press C-M-x inside it to reload that def
08:32	raek	press C-c C-k to reload the whole file
08:33	todun	raek: I get the following error http://pastebin.com/GypgAceq
08:34	raek	todun: you accidentally copied the word "below" too
08:34	raek	press 0 to close that window
08:34	todun	raek: oops. it looked like clojure code :-P
08:34	todun	ok. closed
08:35	raek	write that in the file, not in the repl
08:35	todun	raek: but how do I get to the file?
08:35	raek	todun: change to that buffer
08:35	raek	the usual way
08:36	raek	C-x b
08:36	raek	or maybe you already have it in split screen. it depends on your emacs setup
08:37	todun	raek: ok.
08:37	todun	using C-x b gets somewhere I can type into.
08:37	todun	Ive pasted it in there. now what?
08:37	duck1123	C-x C-b brings up a nice list
08:38	duck1123	C-x b is faster if you know the name of the buffer
08:38	raek	todun: save the file (C-x C-s) and load it (C-c C-k)
08:38	raek	and then enter its namespace (C-c M-p <RET>)
08:39	todun	raek: I can give it any name, right?
08:39	raek	give whay any name?
08:39	todun	I'm going with one.clj
08:39	todun	it says save in path..
08:39	raek	as long as you put it inside the src/ directory
08:39	todun	no file name?
08:40	raek	you didn't open the src/myproject/core.clj file?
08:40	Zolrath	same filename as its ending namespace
08:40	Zolrath	If the project is hellokitty and the filename is socute.clj
08:40	todun	so core.clj?
08:40	Zolrath	the namespace would be (ns hellokitty.socute)
08:41	raek	if the top of the file says (ns myproject.core) the file should be in src/myproject/core.clj
08:41	todun	this is the path I have
08:41	todun	"/src/first_project/core.clj"
08:41	raek	dots becomes slashes, hyphens become underscores
08:42	raek	ok
08:42	raek	then there should be a (ns first-project.core) in the top of that file
08:42	raek	(note the hyphen)
08:43	todun	this is the new file:
08:43	todun	(ns first_project.core)
08:43	todun	(defn hello [] (println "Hello, world!"))
08:44	Zolrath	the underscore from the file is a dash when in the namespace
08:46	todun	Zolrath: oh ok.
08:46	todun	do I overwrite core.clj?
08:46	todun	that was generated by lein
08:47	raek	todun: if that file is called src/first_project/core.clj, then yes
08:47	todun	(ns first-project.one)
08:47	todun	(defn hello [] (println "Hello, world!"))File to save in: ~/Dropbox/CLOJURE/first_project/src/first_project/one.clj
08:48	todun	sorry about that...
08:48	todun	I meant to type this.
08:48	todun	(ns first-project.one)
08:48	todun	(defn hello [] (println "Hello, world!"))
08:48	todun	File to save in: /first_project/src/first_project/one.clj
08:48	Zolrath	correct
08:49	todun	so this means in reality all I need is to save the files in /src/
08:50	todun	just so I understand the steps:
08:51	todun	1.) connect to swank server: M-x, clojure-jack-in
08:51	todun	2.) C-x b to leave the repl to a place I can input my code.
08:52	todun	3.) C-x s save the file to some place in /src/
08:52	todun	4.) ?
08:52	todun	1 - 4) must I have a split screen?
08:52	todun	makes it impossible to write a full length app
08:52	raek	no, but I personally find it convenient
08:52	duck1123	C-x C-s saves a file
08:53	raek	to split the emacs frame vertically
08:53	raek	I usually have the file I'm working on the one side and the repl on the other
08:54	todun	raek: how do I split vertically?
08:54	duck1123	C-x 3
08:54	raek	todun: C-c C-k to load the file. C-c M-p to make the repl be in the namespace of the file
08:55	raek	then you have a repl in the right namespace and you can evaluate code that uses the functions that you have defined in the file
08:55	duck1123	I have (global-set-key (kbd "C-c s") 'slime-selector) so that I can hit C-c s r to get to my repl
08:55	todun	when I do C-x b to get to repl, I fall into oblivion.
08:56	todun	duck1123: sounds like a good idea. how did you set that up?
08:57	duck1123	I have ~/.emacs.d/duck.el just pasted that there
08:57	todun	should I make mine duck.el?
08:58	duck1123	I don't use jack in, so I also have a fn to connect to slime on 127.0.0.1/4005 that I've bound to a handy key combo
08:58	duck1123	no, whatever your username is
08:58	todun	ok
08:58	todun	how do I find out my user name or it that of my computer?
08:58	duck1123	you login name for the computer
08:59	duck1123	near the end of starter kit's setup it looks for a file with your username and loads that
09:03	todun	how to un-split screens?
09:04	duck1123	C-x 1
09:04	duck1123	or C-x 0 to just remove a split
09:05	todun	so there is a repl, then are namespaces and something else.
09:05	todun	how do I move through all of them?
09:06	todun	my last attempt sent me somewhere else.
09:07	duck1123	all of your open buffers? C-x b if you want to type a name, C-x C-b if you want to pick from a list, C-x [right] if you just want to cycle
09:09	todun	duck1123: what is a name and/or name space in clojure?
09:09	todun	what is a list?
09:10	duck1123	todun: I'm not sure I understand your question
09:10	todun	when I split the screen, I don't get the repl and I cannot switch between the split screens.
09:10	todun	you mentioned I use C-x b if I want to type a name
09:10	duck1123	C-x [right] should allow you to cycle through the buffers
09:11	todun	I'm guessing that's the same as name space.
09:11	Fossi	todun: you want windmove
09:11	todun	I was not sure what a name space is in clojure
09:11	todun	right is the cursor?
09:11	duck1123	each buffer has a name, if you know the buffer is "core.clj" you can start typing that to jump to it
09:13	duck1123	by C-x C-b will bring up the list of buffers that you can choose from
09:13	todun	each buffer as in each file?
09:14	duck1123	each open file (and some other things) each have a "tab" that emacs calls buffers
09:14	todun	Fossi: what is windmove?
09:15	todun	Fossi: where to download it from.
09:15	duck1123	If you have the starter kit, you should be able to shift + arrow to move to other sides of the split
09:15	duck1123	easier than C-x o
09:15	todun	Fossi: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/WindMove just describes.
09:16	todun	duck1123: you mean the app version?
09:16	duck1123	are you using emacs in a terminal?
09:16	todun	yes
09:17	duck1123	If so, shift + arrow might not work
09:17	duck1123	C-x o it is then
09:17	Fossi	ah, okay
09:19	todun	I'm perfectly willing to try the app
09:19	todun	in fact I'm there now. shift arrow sets a mark
09:20	duck1123	Ok, if you have windmove, that binds to windmove down. It's part of the v1 of starter kit, so I don't know where you get it
09:21	todun	duck1123: I did 24 nightly as suggested by raek
09:21	todun	will this give me windmove?
09:22	todun	also, the split is always between one name-space and another.
09:22	duck1123	couldn't say. I'm still on 23.2.1 and starter-kit v1
09:22	todun	so I do C-x 2 when I'm in clooj.clj. I get two windows of this
09:23	todun	duck1123: how do you do it with your version?
09:23	duck1123	now you can take one of those sides an switch to a different buffer
09:24	todun	how do I switch between split screens?
09:24	duck1123	todun: I just delete my existing ~/.emacs.d and then checkout the starter kit to that location. I believe things may have changed with the newer verson
09:25	duck1123	M-x next-buffer or C-x <right> to cycle
09:26	raek	todun: with emacs-starter-kit, use Shift + arrow key
09:26	duck1123	sorry, raek's right
09:27	duck1123	C-x o if you don't have windmove or you're in a terminal
09:27	todun	shift arrow-key doesn't work for me.
09:28	todun	also, I only seem to be switching between scratch, GNU emacs, Completions, one.clj
09:28	todun	using C-x left/right arrow keys
09:29	duck1123	Those are probably the only files you have open. C-x C-f to open a new file
09:29	todun	duck1123: but how do I switch to the repl?
09:30	duck1123	Try M-x clojure-jack-in or start swank and M-x slime-connect
09:31	duck1123	Personally, I prefer the latter because I always have a screen session running in Guake.
09:32	todun	duck1123: had to remove slime because it was messign with jack-in
09:32	todun	*messing
09:32	raek	todun: actually, you can have slime installed. it's just that you must have the right version
09:32	raek	which can be tricky
09:33	todun	raek: ok. at this point I just want to understand all this so I can begin developing like a clojurian!
09:33	duck1123	I have only slime and slime-repl installed. Some of the other slime* packages cause me problems
09:34	todun	so I have it such that there are two screens. one with the repl, the other with the .clj
09:34	todun	now what?
09:35	duck1123	code in the clj file. C-c C-k to load it, C-c M-p to set the namespace of the repl, run the function
09:37	todun	raek: doing C-c C-k to load the file. C-c M-p to make the repl be in the namespace of the file doesn't make the repl in my namespace...or am i missing something?
09:39	duck1123	if your point is in the file, C-c M-p should populate the namespace, otherwise you might need to type it. This assumes you're connected, of course
09:40	duck1123	And if you haven't required the namespace in any way, C-c M-p won't work. C-c C-k in that file first and you'll be all set
09:40	raek	todun: what duck1123 said. When you press C-c M-p it will diplay the namespace of the file in the minibuffer. press return to accept it.
09:40	todun	duck1123: what is a point ?
09:41	duck1123	your cursor
09:41	todun	ok. yes I'm connected.
09:41	duck1123	A lot of emacs stuff uses it's own names for things.
09:41	todun	required the namespace?
09:42	todun	C-c C-k === Cntrl + c Cntrl + k ?
09:42	duck1123	yes, do that in the file
09:42	todun	C-c M-p == Cntrl + c Meta + p ?
09:43	duck1123	Meta is either alt+p or esc p.
09:44	todun	duck1123: how to make alt the meta?
09:44	todun	Cntrl + c doesn't work for me. it instead puts in the character c and does nothing.
09:45	raek	todun: "meta" is the name emacs uses for the key that is called "alt" on PCs
09:45	todun	ok. can you change the meta ?
09:45	todun	or you're stuck with esc?
09:46	duck1123	If emacs accepted the C-c, you should see "C - c -" at the bottom left
09:46	raek	todun: you can't use the alt key?
09:46	lucian	what's the standard for clojure package management (like python's pip, or ruby's gems)
09:46	todun	raek: yes. my meta is esc
09:46	raek	todun: you can use both
09:47	duck1123	most terminals won't send your alt commands, so you're stuck with esc.
09:47	tdrgabi	lucian: leiningen
09:47	todun	raek: just tried
09:47	todun	didn't work
09:47	raek	lucian: packages = maven artifacts. build tools to make packages: Leiningen, Cake or Maven: repository: Clojars and Maven central
09:48	duck1123	I've gotten to the habit of always using esc w for kill-ring-save. I've been bitten by OSX to many times. Want to copy text and end up closing the window
09:48	raek	well, you use the build tools to "consume" packages too
09:48	todun	C-c doesn't seem to be working for me.
09:49	raek	lucian: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/stable/doc/TUTORIAL.md
09:49	duck1123	C-c doesn't do anything on it's own, It's a prefix for multiple key commands
09:50	lucian	raek: hmm. is there a way to install things system-wide?
09:50	lucian	thanks raek tdrgabi
09:51	duck1123	lucian: it's really not encouraged
09:51	raek	lucian: cake has a "global project" which kind of works like that
09:51	lucian	duck1123: i know, but i want to do it anyway
09:51	lucian	i'd rather not make a project just for playing around with things
09:51	raek	with lein you need to make a "scratch project"
09:52	raek	there's also Cljr
09:52	lucian	right, i'll have a look
09:53	raek	lucian: https://github.com/liebke/cljr
09:53	lucian	raek: ah, awesome. precisely what i want
09:53	todun	got C-c M-p to work. it displays: Package: first-project.one
09:53	raek	todun: press return
09:54	todun	raek: I see a bunch of files.
09:57	todun	perhaps I should get cljr?
09:58	todun	will this help a newbie?
09:58	clgv	todun: you could try eclipse with ccw or similar plugin for netbeans ;)
09:58	duck1123	perhaps in the short term, but if you're serious about clojure, you're going to need to know lein/maven/cake anyway
09:59	todun	clgv: ok. try that. but sine I've gone down this wabbit hole, might as well finish..
09:59	xkb	hi #clojure
10:00	xkb	I am trying to get the first 100 entries from a stream. I get the stream trough async-http: (string stream-seq client ....) and I'd like to just do (take 100 stream)
10:01	xkb	however this doesnt work (looks like it blocks)
10:01	xkb	any idea how I should handle this?
10:01	clgv	xkb: then you might have not enough data in there ;)
10:01	xkb	I can continually print the seq by using doseq
10:01	xkb	(its a twitter stream)
10:01	andrewclegg	I keep running into little things that would be easier in clojure but not worth starting a separate project for
10:02	clgv	and remember take is lazy and wont do anything unless you access does elements
10:02	xkb	is take allowed/working on a stream-seq?
10:02	xkb	hmm
10:02	clgv	*those
10:02	andrewclegg	is there a best-practice/least-friction way to do that?
10:02	mikera	@andrewclegg works fine for me with Eclipse / Maven in a Java project
10:02	andrewclegg	mikera: just have a separate src/main/clojure dir and add the clojure nature?
10:03	mikera	yep. also I use Maven for the clojure dependency but you don't have to
10:03	andrewclegg	do you have to do anything funky to make sure the clojure stuff gets compiled before the java code that references it?
10:03	andrewclegg	I think I stumbled on that last time I tried
10:03	mikera	No - the clojure files get compiled on demand
10:03	andrewclegg	cool thanks, will try again and see how I get on
10:04	cemerick	andrewclegg: Do you need to distinctly compile the clojure stuff? Unless you're referring to types defined in Clojure, you can just ship the source .clj
10:04	andrewclegg	cemerick: I'm generally making jars to deploy to a repo for use by other java projects
10:05	andrewclegg	can you just bundle the source .clj in the jar?
10:05	cemerick	andrewclegg: absolutely
10:05	andrewclegg	and that gets compiled when the clojure rt first needs it?
10:05	cemerick	If your clients only touch the Java API, then there's no need to AOT-compile the clojure sources.
10:05	andrewclegg	this is sounding better all the time :-)
10:06	cemerick	In that scenario, you do need to load the Clojure sources at runtime (in a static init block, or somesuch), but you're otherwise golden.
10:06	cemerick	Again, this is the case if you're not referring to Clojure-defined types from Java.
10:06	mikera	I never used AOT compilation either, just bundles the .clj files in the jar
10:07	cemerick	You can just put your .clj files in src/main/resources (if you're using maven), and they'll get rolled into the jar automatically.
10:08	todun	raek: so to develop in emacs, what steps should I take from M-x, clojure-jack-in...? thanks.
10:08	andrewclegg	what I'm thinking is: I provide a library jar which has interfaces defined in java, that my consumers speak to. the implementation classes in my jar delegate some of their work to clojure functions. my consumers never speak to the clojure functions directly
10:08	andrewclegg	so my impl. classes have to do something in static blocks to bring up clojure?
10:09	andrewclegg	I don't suppose anyone knows of a blog post with an example :-)
10:09	cemerick	andrewclegg: Sounds beautiful; yes, just require the relevant namespaces from Java, and invoke the functions you want.
10:09	andrewclegg	nice -- I'll try and see where that gets me
10:09	andrewclegg	thx
10:10	xkb	is there someway to "disconnect" from a stream?
10:10	cemerick	andrewclegg: There's extensive examples in my book (sorry for the self-promotion). In short:
10:10	cemerick	private static IFn requireFn = RT.var("clojure.core", "require").fn()
10:11	cemerick	requireFn.invoke(Symbol.intern("your.namespace"));
10:11	cemerick	Then use RT.var to get access to the functions you defined in your namespace.
10:12	andrewclegg	sweet, thanks for summarizing
10:14	rafl	so i implemented a library that provides a bunch of java classes and interfaces and i'd like to hand that off to the java people to write applications with
10:14	rafl	for that, i'd like to provide them with documentation for the java api
10:14	rafl	should i be looking at any tools to generate docs targetted at java people from doc strings or whatever?
10:14	andrewclegg	rafl: sounds like you just volunteered to write such a tool :-)
10:15	clgv	I want to implement a custom serializer for kryo in clojure. unfortunately "Serializer" is an abstract class and not an interface. is the only clojure way to use a genclass or what other options do I have?
10:15	clgv	I cant use a deftype, can I?
10:16	rafl	andrewclegg: fair enough. i might as well :)
10:17	raek	clgv: you can only use proxy or gen-class in that case
10:17	clgv	ok deftype does not work
10:17	clgv	raek: well then it's genclass since I do not need to proxy any of the methods
10:17	cemerick	rafl: I looked at generating javadoc from Clojure sources a long time ago.
10:17	cemerick	javadoc is not easy or simple to extend
10:18	raek	or make a adapter class in java that delegates to something more clojure-friendly
10:18	rafl	cemerick: actually, that's the route i was going to try first. did it turn out to be particularly impossible?
10:18	cemerick	The general consensus we reached then was that generating dummy Java source files from Clojure-defined types and running Javadoc over that was the most reasonable path.
10:19	raek	yuck
10:19	cemerick	rafl: Yeah, it's really gnarly.
10:19	rafl	nod
10:19	cemerick	raek: That's what I thought at first. Then I looked at javadoc.
10:20	clgv	raek: hm right I could make a wrapper class that uses an interface
10:20	rafl	cemerick: any chance of finding your clojure types -> fake java code stuff somewhere public?
10:20	raek	how about the other way? is it simple to extract javadoc data from java source?
10:20	cemerick	rafl: Oh, I never actually implemented that! :-P
10:20	rafl	marvellous!
10:20	cemerick	Wouldn't be super-difficult, but never hit the top of my priority list.
10:21	cemerick	raek: No. I don't recall the details.
10:21	rafl	it seems quite doable, really. just a little unsure about how many yaks i want to shave today.
10:33	emil`	does anyone know why the clojurescript repl sample doesn't respond after the second post is sent to the server?
10:33	mikera	@andrewclegg - you're not the Andrew Clegg from RGS Guildford by any chance?
10:37	andrewclegg	mikera: yeah, from like 20 years ago!
10:46	wjlroe	How do I check if an atom is defined?
10:46	jingguo	Hi, All. Is tools.logging is a replacement of clojure.contrib.logging?
10:47	pyr	wjlroe: (if @atom) ?
10:48	wjlroe	pyr: just says Unable to resolve symbol
10:49	pyr	wjlroe: well then that's something else entirely
10:49	pyr	wjlroe: it's not specific to an atom, you just have a symbol that's not declared
10:49	wjlroe	pyr: I want to define an atom if it hasn't already been defined
10:50	pyr	i'm not sure you're doing it right
10:50	pyr	(def foo (atom nil))
10:50	pyr	(when-not @foo (reset! foo some-val))
10:50	wjlroe	pyr: ok, I'll try that
10:51	pyr	or you can use memoize
10:51	raek	pyr: there is a race condition in that piece of code
10:52	pyr	raek: how so
10:52	zoldar	(swap! foo #(when-not % some-val)) ?
10:52	clgv	zoldar: thats it
10:53	raek	pyr: the atom can change between the deref and the reset!. swap! should be used here
10:53	pyr	ah, of course
10:57	wjlroe	raek: thanks! I wouldn't have spotted that. makes the code much better implementing that
10:57	wjlroe	pyr: thanks for your help
11:11	ljos	Hi - If i want to do this in clojure how would I do it? frame.getContentPane().add(comp) I'm pretty new to clojure...
11:11	jcromartie	(.. frame (.getContentPane) (.add comp))
11:11	jcromartie	I think
11:11	jcromartie	(is ".." deprecated?)
11:12	jcromartie	http://clojure.org/java_interop
11:12	ljos	wait.. I wrote the wrong thing. It should be frame.getContentPane().add(comp, BorderLayout.CENTER)
11:12	clgv	jcromartie: idk, but you can also use (-> frame .getContentPane (.add comp))
11:13	ljos	Can I do it in a doto.. I have some other things I need to do to the frame as well..
11:14	jcromartie	clgv: ah yes, -> is more idiomatic
11:14	jcromartie	I am dipping into interop right now too
11:14	jcromartie	using doto at the moment
11:16	duck1123	ljos: If you're using Swing, I'm pretty sure there's one or more libs that abstract away most of the nastiness
11:18	ljos	duck1132: probably, but there is very little swing I need to do. I just wanted the frame up and running.
11:19	clgv	ljos: yes you can
11:19	ljos	Most of the swing stuff is in java. I just needed to start it properly.
11:19	ljos	clgv: Ty for your help, I just managed to make it work. This is sweet!
11:20	ljos	Thanks to everyone who answers as well :D
11:21	todun	what's the difference between def, defn, clojure ?
11:22	duck1123	defn is a function, def is any var.
11:22	duck1123	(defn foo [x] x) vs (def foo (fn [x] x))
11:23	jcromartie	and defn supports a bit more than def, too
11:23	jcromartie	like comments
11:23	jcromartie	and pre/post-condition maps
11:24	clgv	duck1123: defn is a macro ;)
11:25	duck1123	Yes, there are more differences than what I showed, but that's the imortant part he needs to know
11:26	duck1123	if you're ever in the situation where you're trying to take the value of defn, you're probably doing something wrong anyway
11:30	chrido	hi, i want to insert a joda-datetime thing with clojure.java.jdbc into the database, which format string do i have to use?
11:31	chrido	YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS behaves quite funny, i get Incorrect datetime value: '2011-10-285 15:10:54' for column 'lastUpdate' at row 1
11:32	duck1123	chrido: I believe sending the time as a number works
11:33	andrewclegg	ljos: are you doing swing? would this help? https://github.com/stathissideris/clarity
11:33	duck1123	285 days in October?
11:35	chrido	duck1123: do you know mean as timestamp?
11:35	chrido	yyyymmddhhmmss also doesn't work
11:37	duck1123	chrido: right, if you can get it as a timestamp, this should eliminate parsing issues
11:38	duck1123	but your real issue is your date is malformed
11:38	duck1123	'2011-10-285'
11:41	chrido	duck1123: this is what bothers me most, this is the code which prints "2011-10-285 17:10:14"
11:41	chrido	(. (org.joda.time.format.DateTimeFormat/forPattern "YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS") print (new org.joda.time.DateTime))
11:42	duck1123	I don't know if it's the same as the java string, but try "yyyy-MM-dd hh:mm:ss"
11:42	todun	duck1123: ok. so def is like 'var ?
11:43	duck1123	todun: def defines a var, yes
11:44	chrido	duck1123: with "yyyy-MM-dd hh:mm:ss" i get "2011-10-12 05:43:16",
11:46	chrido	duck1123: "yyyy-MM-dd HH:mm:ss" is OK, gives 24hours
11:46	todun	duck1123: when I do this (def var 12) => 12, ('v 12) => nil, 'v => v
11:46	chrido	duck1123: thanks a lot! but will try to convert it to timestamp
11:47	duck1123	todun: v => 12
11:49	duck1123	'v gives you the quoted symbol. #'v gives you #'user/v (or whatever ns you're in) v gives the value pointed at by #'v
11:50	clgv	&#'v
11:50	lazybot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: v in this context
11:50	clgv	&#'map
11:50	lazybot	⇒ #'clojure.core/map
12:01	llasram	OOC, why are their multiple evaluation bots hanging out here, and are their interfaces documented anywhere?
12:01	llasram	s,their,there,
12:02	jcromartie	what's a good way to get a lazy seq of forms from a file
12:02	jcromartie	I'm trying to whip it up myself
12:02	jcromartie	but if there's an example
12:02	duck1123	bots become smug when there's no cometition. It keeps them honest
12:03	ejackson	duck1123: they're lispbots, its in their nature.
12:19	galderz1	hi all
12:19	galderz1	have a question about the move of contrib to separate git repos
12:19	galderz1	does anyone know where http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/string-api.html lives now?
12:20	galderz1	it's not clear from looking at http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Clojure+Contrib
12:23	galderz1	seems like i'm not the only one asking: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/973fae166ba4121d?pli=1
12:24	duck1123	clojure.string
12:25	duck1123	most of the string stuff come with clojure now
12:25	galderz1	duck1123 but grep is not there for example
12:25	galderz1	^^
12:25	galderz1	in particular, i wanted to grep a pattern in a file
12:25	galderz1	there might be easier ways to do it of course
12:35	srid	(apply merge (for [] ...)) <- the for returns a list of maps that needs to be merged. is there a better way?
12:37	jkkramer	srid: you could use reduce to work with one map from start to finish
12:37	srid	reduce seems conceptually over-complicated for implemented 'set comprehensions' though
12:38	todun	duck1123: ok. I'll have to read up some more. thanks.
12:39	duck1123	srid: looks like merge uses reduce1, so you're probably better off with apply
12:40	srid	seems so. {for [] ...} would have been better ;-)
12:40	duck1123	since there's no special case for different # of args
12:40	jkkramer	srid: (into {} (for [] ...)) may also work, depending on what you produce with for
12:41	duck1123	if you can produce only the sets of keys you want, you could (into {})
12:41	srid	,(into {} (for [x (range 5)] {x (* x x)}))
12:41	clojurebot	{0 0, 1 1, 2 4, 3 9, 4 16}
12:41	srid	ok
12:42	jkkramer	,(into {} (for [x (range 5)] [x (* x x)])) ;also common
12:42	clojurebot	{0 0, 1 1, 2 4, 3 9, 4 16}
12:43	todun	how to quit out of a clojure repl
12:45	trptcolin	todun: ctrl-d will do it
12:45	todun	trptcolin: ok. no special "quit" or other?
12:45	trptcolin	nope
12:46	todun	trptcolin: thanks.
12:46	jcromartie	please critique my lazy form sequence function: https://gist.github.com/1281781
12:46	jcromartie	I'm a lazy-seq noob
12:46	trptcolin	sure thing. lein repl has a fancy command: (exit), but nothing built-in
12:47	todun	trptcolin: that didn't work for me though,
12:47	trptcolin	using which version of lein?
12:47	todun	'lein repl' user=> exit
12:47	todun	#<core$exit leiningen.core$exit@4b17b450>
12:47	trptcolin	(exit)
12:47	trptcolin	it's a function call
12:47	todun	ha. like all of closure :)
12:47	todun	*clojure
12:49	jcromartie	seems to work well enough
12:49	srid	lamina question: i defined a second filtered/mapped channel like this: (defonce event-queue (->> sink-queue (map* foo) (filter* identity))) ... but this would run in module load. what if I wanted to define this only when a function (eg: "initialize") is called?
12:51	duck1123	srid: [shameless plug] you could try definitializer in Ciste. https://github.com/duck1123/ciste
12:51	srid	which file?
12:51	srid	\
12:51	duck1123	But that also hooks into the config and environment system
12:52	duck1123	it's in ciste.config
12:55	todun	I'm about to write my first clojure in emacs now. but I'm a bit hazy as to some of the details. First I have to create a project(still not sure if I have to do this all the time like eclipse workspace). Then I know I have to open emacs in /src. Then connect to some swank server using M-x, clojure-jack-in. Then be in a name-space....etc. Does anyone know where I can find steps to do all this? thanks.
13:01	technomancy	todun: your patience is remarkable =)
13:01	dnolen	todun: if you just want to learn Clojure it seems like you're going thru a lot of trouble.
13:01	jcromartie	todun: might I recommend 4clojure?
13:01	technomancy	I signed off irc last night when you were figuring out clojure-mode and the first thing I see when I sign back on is that you're finally ready to code =)
13:02	jcromartie	http://www.4clojure.com/
13:02	duck1123	todun: have faith. It gets better.
13:03	cemerick	todun: I have to check: did you try the eclipse plugin, and find it not to your liking (I'm assuming here you are more familiar with eclipse…)?
13:03	technomancy	todun: the steps you've listed are correct. for starters it's simpler if you stay in one namespace/file
13:04	todun	thanks all.
13:04	todun	I'm interested in emacs so that I can know what to do whatever the platform. in other words, I want to be platform agnostic when learning clojure.
13:05	cemerick	carry on, then :-)
13:05	todun	cemerick: sure.
13:05	todun	technomancy: so the steps are correct.
13:06	todun	technomancy: should I have to create a project each time I start?
13:06	technomancy	todun: no need; if you're doing experimentation you can re-use a scratch project
13:06	todun	can I just have one folder which has /src in it. then from there have all my .clj in /src ?
13:07	todun	technomancy: scracth project?
13:07	todun	technomancy: will this let me save the work into a file?
13:08	technomancy	right; just do "lein new scratch" and work in the src/ dir of that project; that's probably the simplest for just experimentation
13:09	technomancy	you can get standalone sessions outside a project, but for learning's sake it's quicker to just get accustomed to a project-centric approach
13:09	todun	ok. trying that now...
13:10	duck1123	sooner or later you're going to want a library outside of clojure, and it's easiest if you can just add it to the project file
13:10	todun	I cd scratch
13:10	clojurebot	No entiendo
13:11	todun	duck1123: meaning?
13:11	todun	duck1123: as in which is the project file?
13:11	todun	duck1123: is there a main project file?
13:11	technomancy	todun: project.clj in scratch defines your project settings including dependencies
13:11	duck1123	when you do "lein new scratch" it will create a "project.clj" file
13:12	todun	duck1123: I though scratch of anything I do with 'lein new project' is a project file
13:12	duck1123	that's how lein knows what libraries you're using
13:12	technomancy	at some point you should read "lein help tutorial" though I hate to distract you from actually writing code.
13:13	todun	technomancy: this doesn't cover dev in emacs though : https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/stable/doc/TUTORIAL.md
13:14	todun	duck1123: ok.
13:15	todun	after creating, opening a file first-project.clj(in /src), connecting to server, then what?
13:15	technomancy	todun: open the file in src/scratch/core.clj and do C-c C-k; that will compile it in the repl
13:15	technomancy	write some code in there, and then recompile to see its effects
13:16	technomancy	then C-c M-p to switch the namespace repl buffer to match the file you're currently in
13:17	todun	technomancy: so I should keep the name of core.clj?
13:17	technomancy	if it's just for experimentation it doesn't matter
13:17	duck1123	for now, unless you have a better name
13:18	todun	oh I see. core.clj doesn't exist yet.
13:18	duck1123	it should be in src/scratch/core.clj
13:19	duck1123	in the scratch directory that lein new made
13:19	todun	actually it does at sractch/src/scratch/core.clj
13:20	duck1123	cd into the scratch folder and work from there
13:20	duck1123	then do a git init and make your initial commit
13:20	todun	ok. I have it open with (ns scratch.core) as its sole content
13:20	duck1123	magit is an awesome git client
13:21	todun	so it allows me to make commits directly from emacs?
13:21	todun	I actually have an idea of a group of functions I want to write.
13:21	duck1123	C-x g (assuming you're using starter kit)
13:22	todun	yes
13:22	technomancy	duck1123: in v2 it's actually C-c g if you're using the bindings module; M-x magit-status if not
13:22	todun	do I write my code before I connect to the swank server?
13:23	duck1123	technomancy: Not sure how I feel about that. My fingers are too trained
13:23	technomancy	todun: doesn't really matter, but you can't try it out until you're connected
13:23	technomancy	duck1123: trying to be a little better about followin gconventions
13:26	todun	technomancy: ok. let me write something quick and test it.
13:28	todun	how to undo in emacs starter-kit? I've always used C - ?
13:29	duck1123	C-_
13:29	duck1123	or C-/ or C-x u
13:30	TimMc	todun: M-x undo and then look at the hint that appears in the minibuffer.
13:30	TimMc	It should tell you a keybinding.
13:30	todun	TimMc: thanks.
13:30	duck1123	C-h f undo <ret>
13:31	TimMc	:-)
13:39	todun	does anyone get a weird indent when using emacs starter kit?
13:39	todun	I get it whenever I comment out a line.
13:39	todun	and hit return.
13:41	todun	technomancy: duck1123 ok. I have my function written in scratch. what next?
13:41	todun	connect to swank?
13:42	duck1123	connect to swank, switch to that ns, run the fn and make sure it works
13:43	duck1123	then write a unit test for it.
13:45	todun	connecting to swank...switch to ns ?
13:53	dnolen	so any opinions on the ClojureScript string/keyword patch? http://dev.clojure.org/jira/secure/attachment/10382/84-str-on-symbol-keyword.patch
13:55	todun	my comments in emacs-starter-kit seem to be right-justified. is this normal?
13:55	duck1123	if you do ;; then emacs will keep them in line with the code
13:56	todun	duck1123: ok. thanks.
13:56	todun	I had to go back to the cli. emacs app was acting funny
13:56	todun	so I'm connected. what did you mean by switch to the ns?
13:56	ibdknox	dnolen, what's the practical implication of that change?
13:57	todun	duck1123: I thought I was already in the ns
13:57	dnolen	ibdknox: (str :foo) -> ":foo"
13:57	dnolen	ibdknox: currently (str :foo) -> :foo
13:57	todun	duck1123: when I start in core.clj
13:57	dnolen	ibdknox: same for symbols
13:57	duck1123	You start off in the user ns, the repl will show your current ns
13:57	jkndrkn	hey all. i'm working with a multi-threaded webservice. we want to collect timing information for a request. we'd like to avoid making ad-hoc changes to our existing code in order to pass in and pass out a map that will accumulate timing information.
13:58	ibdknox	dnolen, the same for symbols?
13:58	dnolen	(str 'foo) -> 'foo in CLJS
13:58	ibdknox	,(str 't)
13:58	duck1123	todun: if you C-c C-k the core.clj file, the C-c M-p it'll switch you to the right ns)
13:58	clojurebot	"t"
13:58	ibdknox	dnolen, why the difference?
13:58	dnolen	ibdknox: exactly, patch aligns CLJS w/ Clojure
13:59	ibdknox	gotcha
13:59	duck1123	todun: alternately (do (require 'scratch.core) (in-ns 'scratch.core))
13:59	jkndrkn	however, if we were to create some kind of global state (a map) that could instead be passed timing information from within arbitrary parts of our system, we would still need to pass around some kind of request-id in order to assign timing data to the global map in a way that it uniquely identifies timing information for a given request
14:00	jkndrkn	unfortunately, we don't already pass the same data structure to all corners of our request, otherwise we would simply accumulate performance data on that data structure via metadata.
14:00	jkndrkn	have any ideas?
14:00	ibdknox	dnolen, looks fine to me
14:01	jkndrkn	we're using compojure (jetty), if that helps
14:01	todun	C-c C-k then C-c M-p ==== (do (require 'scratch.core) (in-ns 'scratch.core))
14:02	ibdknox	jkndrkn, middleware + an atom + thread binding
14:02	todun	duck1123: where do I put (do (require 'scratch.core) (in-ns 'scratch.core)), before (ns scratch.core) ?
14:02	duck1123	essentially. C-c C-k reloads the current file, C-c M-p switches the repl's ns
14:03	duck1123	todun: in your repl
14:03	duck1123	You could do it as two commands, the do is so it's a single command in your history
14:04	todun	duck1123: so they're equivalent at least in action?
14:05	duck1123	todun: right. You can't switch to the namespace until it's loaded. That's what require does. The in-ns changes the repl's ns
14:06	jkndrkn	ibdknox: we've considered an atom and thread binding. could you clarify as to how you would use middleware?
14:07	todun	duck1123: this is what my emacs stuff looks like: http://pastebin.com/AxVUq9Cg
14:07	ibdknox	jkndrkn, you need your atom to be specific to each request. if you bind at the level of middleware, it will be. Take a look at the session implentation in ring or noir
14:08	ibdknox	jkndrkn, https://github.com/ibdknox/noir/blob/master/src/noir/session.clj#L49
14:09	ibdknox	jkndrkn, then you just need to make sure other threads that are spawned from that request use bound-fn
14:09	ibdknox	,(doc bound-fn)
14:09	clojurebot	"([& fntail]); Returns a function defined by the given fntail, which will install the same bindings in effect as in the thread at the time bound-fn was called. This may be used to define a helper function which runs on a different thread, but needs the same bindings in place."
14:09	todun	duck1123: after putting the line of code, what next? did I put the line of code in correctly?
14:09	ibdknox	actually.. there was talk at some point of having threads automatically pick up the bindings of whatever called them, did that ever happen?
14:10	jkndrkn	thanks, i'll look into that
14:10	duck1123	ibdknox: that's cool, didn't know that one. Have some code to simplify
14:10	mabes	ibdknox: in 13 the bound-fn would not be needed
14:10	mabes	ibdknox: er.. 1.3
14:10	ibdknox	mabes, k, so it does it by default in 1.3 then?
14:11	ibdknox	that would be the desired behavior in my mind
14:11	mabes	ibdknox: that is my understanding yes, you need to declare the var as dynamic though
14:11	ibdknox	yep yep
14:11	duck1123	todun: try calling your function. Does it work?
14:11	todun	duck1123: so I just call it from the repl?
14:13	todun	duck1123: I get the following error: http://pastebin.com/iWj6BNuU
14:14	duck1123	todun: what does your repl prompt say? If it still says "user>" then you didn't change the ns correctly
14:14	duck1123	mabes: So I had to do something like https://github.com/duck1123/ciste/blob/master/src/ciste/triggers.clj#L33 are you saying that's no longer required?
14:16	mabes	duck1123: that is what I'm saying, but I haven't actually updated my apps to 1.3 yet.. so I may be incorrect, but that is what I remember from Rich's keynote at the last conj and other readings
14:16	mabes	somone with actual 1.3 experience may want to confirm the thread local bindings queustion...
14:17	duck1123	I vaguely remember hearing that, but I wrote this well before that feature would've been put in
14:17	todun	duck1123: this is what it says. ; SLIME 20100404
14:17	todun	user> greeting
14:18	duck1123	todun: you're still in the default user ns. Try switching the ns again
14:18	todun	duck1123: I changed to it and pressed enter. It then changed to this: http://pastebin.com/TXXAygzp
14:19	todun	duck1123: I thought that the line of code I put in my app did that on my behalf, no?
14:19	duck1123	put it in the repl, not the code
14:19	amalloy	,(future (println "1"))
14:19	clojurebot	#<core$future_call$reify__5733@1d4e606: :pending>
14:19	amalloy	,@(future (println "1"))
14:19	clojurebot	1
14:20	mabes	,clojure-version
14:20	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 3, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
14:20	amalloy	duck1123, mabes: this works only because clojurebot is on 1.3. lazybot, on 1.2, should behave differently: ##@(future (println "1"))
14:20	lazybot	⇒ nil
14:20	todun	duck1123: ok..
14:21	duck1123	amalloy: good to know. I use a bound var to represent some things and I needed those things to still be bound in my triggers
14:24	todun	duck1123: ok. I think that worked. is that all I do?
14:25	duck1123	yep, code some more, C-c C-k in that file, then run it again from the repl
14:29	todun	duck1123: anytime I try to load a new function, the old one persists.
14:29	todun	do I have to restart eclipse over again ?
14:30	duck1123	todun: Oh, you're on eclipse now? I think there's an option to reload the repl
14:50	daniel___	https://github.com/danielstockton/evolve/blob/master/src/evolve/core.clj can anyone point out a method to println each generation?
14:51	daniel___	i've seen you can use do to execute side effects, but the problem is the important statement is the return statement
14:51	daniel___	i can't println until it's been evaluated
14:52	daniel___	line 26 is the one i need to modify, so for each iteration i can log whats going on
14:56	amalloy	&(doto (inc 5) println)
14:56	lazybot	⇒ 6 6
14:56	ipostelnik	daniel___, look at clojure.contrib.trace
14:57	ipostelnik	daniel___, returned value of a do is the last form executed
14:57	ipostelnik	amalloy, that's a clever trick
14:58	duck1123	daniel___: Here's the macro I use https://github.com/duck1123/ciste/blob/master/src/ciste/debug.clj#L5
15:03	Raynes	dakrone: Ping.
15:03	TimMc	amalloy: Huh, kind of acts like a begin0
15:06	ibdknox	or just use a let?
15:13	amalloy	TimMc: i think you mean a prog1, you crazy schemer
15:14	daniel___	doto does the reverse order of do?
15:14	daniel___	so the first is returned
15:14	Raynes	Do does something completely different, but sure, the first is returned.
15:15	Raynes	&(doto "hi" println)
15:15	lazybot	⇒ hi "hi"
15:15	daniel___	ah ok
15:15	llasram	daniel___: doto evalutes it's first argument, and embeds the evaluated value as the first argument in the subsequent forms. Check the macroexpansion
15:15	Raynes	&(macroexpand '(doto "hi" println))
15:15	lazybot	⇒ (let* [G__15133 "hi"] (println G__15133) G__15133)
15:15	daniel___	ok, will do...it's jsut what i wanted
15:19	daniel___	one more thing, with vimclojure when i launch the repl \s....should the file be loaded so i can call functions in it's namespace? or do i have to explicitly load it? because at the moment it cannot resolve symbols i've defined
15:23	dakrone	Raynes: pong
15:24	Raynes	dakrone: How much trouble would it be to release some sort of alpha or something of clj-http? I'd like to have something non-snapshot and running on 1.3 to depend on.
15:24	Raynes	Assuming that it isn't currently broken or something.
15:25	dakrone	Raynes: the current release "0.2.1" runs completely fine on 1.3, or did you need some feature in master that hasn't been released?
15:25	Raynes	Oh, it does? Awesome. In that case, nevermind.
15:26	dakrone	I've been testing with 1.2.1 and 1.3 since I took it over to make sure it's always compatible with both
15:31	TimMc	amalloy: More of a Racketteer, really.
15:32	zakwilson	,(format "%x" (- (BigInteger. "4e95d6b5975a97db24369193", 16) (to-long (now)))) ; is there an easy way to do this?
15:32	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: to-long in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
15:32	zakwilson	Oh, right.
15:32	zakwilson	,(format "%x" (- (BigInteger. "4e95d6b5975a97db24369193", 16) 1318447929255))
15:32	clojurebot	#<IllegalFormatConversionException java.util.IllegalFormatConversionException: x != clojure.lang.BigInt>
15:33	technomancy	TimMc: not a raconteur?
15:33	TimMc	hmm
15:34	zakwilson	,(format "%x" 10000000000000000000000000000000) ; reduced to the simplest version
15:34	clojurebot	#<IllegalFormatConversionException java.util.IllegalFormatConversionException: x != clojure.lang.BigInt>
15:34	TimMc	mouseketeer
15:34	technomancy	TimMc: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/23
15:35	daniel___	is there anything i can call within an iterate to give me the number of the iteration?
15:35	llasram	zakwilson: clojure.core/format is thin wrapper around java String.format(), which doesn't know about the Clojure 1.3 BigInt type
15:37	llasram	zakwilson: http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Documentation+for+1.3+Numerics
15:47	wiseen	ClojureScript doesn't seem to support docstring in ns macro ? Is this true/intentional or a bug ?
15:49	wiseen	(ns test "DocString?") -> java.lang.AssertionError: Assert failed: Only :refer-clojure, :require, :require-macros, :use and :use-macros libspecs supported
15:50	duck1123	we need a clojurescript bot in here
15:51	wiseen	duck1123: Think it's my install ? I'll pull the latest but I think I'm only a few days behind ... and it works otherwise
15:54	wiseen	nope, same thing ... will submit a bug report then
15:56	zakwilson	Ok, maybe I'm just dumb, but I'm not seeing a simple way to format a BigInt as a hex string without going Bigint -> String -> BigInteger -> String.
16:02	alpheus`	Heh. I needed to look at some vectors of maps so I'm emitting orgtbl-mode format for easy viewing in Emacs.
16:20	todun_	duck1123: just got your message. not on eclipse I mis-typed(was obviously nodding off). still emacs.
16:20	todun_	duck1123: if I make a change, do I reload the namespace somehow?
16:21	duck1123	C-c C-k in the changed file will reload it in the current vm
16:22	todun_	duck1123: after I use those commands, I get this Compilation finished. (No warnings) [0.01 secs]
16:22	todun_	duck1123: then I switch wondows.
16:22	duck1123	todun_: that means it's working :)
16:22	todun_	then I get an exception when I call the function with args.
16:23	todun_	duck1123: I call the function like so: (greeting "work")
16:24	duck1123	What does the exception say? If it compiles but does not run, there's probably some logic error
16:24	todun_	duck1123: (defn greeting "'Hello, username.' This is tough, but fun." [username] (str "hello, " username))
16:25	todun_	duck1123: that's the function.
16:25	todun_	duck1123: I already suspected it didn't compile because it doesn't let me tab complete.
16:26	todun_	duck1123: exception is http://pastebin.com/RtJGp3Av
16:27	duck1123	todun_: you're in the user ns again
16:29	todun_	duck1123: phew. I think I'm certifiably confused.
16:29	todun_	duck1123: shouldn't have that line of code in repl be equivalent to compiling it like we did using C-c C-k?
16:30	duck1123	C-c C-k compiles the line, but it does not change your repl's namespace
16:31	duck1123	that's what C-c M-p is for or in-ns
16:31	duck1123	The prompt in the repl shows your current ns, so if you see "user>" then you need to change
16:32	todun_	duck1123: so that changes it to a name space called scratch.code, right?
16:33	todun_	duck1123: thanks! it now works. it all does makes sense now, finally.
16:33	duck1123	C-c M-p will auto populate the ns associated with the current file. (whereever your pointer is)
16:34	todun_	duck1123: C-c C-k to compile ; C-c M-p to switch namespace. Then, like a script, call functions.
16:35	todun_	if I were using lein as 'lein repl', will I have to do all this?
16:35	duck1123	If you're using lein repl, then you don't have the fancy emacs commands
16:35	todun_	could I just emacs my thing then open a new repl in the same folder and do my testing?
16:35	todun_	duck1123: yeah, but I'll have another window.
16:36	todun_	duck1123: and perhaps achieve the same results, no?
16:37	zerokarmaleft	lein repl isn't quite as nice as slime/swank
16:37	raek	todun_: in lein repl you type (require 'scratch.code :reload) instead of C-c C-k and (in-ns 'scratch.code) instead of C-c M-p
16:37	duck1123	it's all the same in the end, you just won't have any of the features that slime provides. (ie. you can't C-c C-k to reload the file)
16:37	todun_	duck1123: if I wanted to use this scheme, how will I load my core.clj into the lein namespace which seems to be eternally 'user'
16:37	todun_	?
16:38	zerokarmaleft	todun_: what raek said
16:38	raek	todun_: for future reference http://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html
16:38	todun_	raek: should I have it like so (do require 'scratch.code :reload) (do in-ns 'scratch.code)
16:39	raek	todun_: no. why the "do"?
16:39	todun_	zerokarmaleft: sorry was typing out of sync with them. got it.
16:39	duck1123	raek: I posted an example with do earlier
16:39	todun_	raek: didn't work the first time. I thought I saw duck1123 do that earlier.
16:39	raek	todun_: (do a b c) is not the same as (a b c).
16:40	duck1123	The do was only so both commands were the same command so you can pull it up from your history
16:40	ibdknox	oo
16:40	ibdknox	I wonder if that's a 1.0 of ring
16:40	raek	todun_: another neat trick is (doto 'scratch.code (require :reload) (in-ns))
16:41	todun_	duck1123: I see.
16:41	raek	that's the same as calling (let [x 'scratch.code] (require x :reload) (in-ns x) nil)
16:41	raek	...or (let [x 'scratch.code] (do (require x :reload) (in-ns x) nil))
16:41	duck1123	raek: should return x actually
16:41	raek	but let has an "implicit do" so you don't need to write it
16:41	raek	duck1123: correct. my bad.
16:42	ibdknox	lol
16:42	todun_	raek: do I run them on the same line like so (require 'scratch.code :reload) (in-ns 'scratch.code)
16:42	ibdknox	doto twice in one day
16:42	todun_	raek: or line by line?
16:42	raek	todun_: doesn
16:42	raek	todun_: doesn't matter
16:42	amalloy	raek: the nil at the end of your doto/let/do doesn't make any sense
16:42	raek	amalloy: yes, I know. I meant (let [x 'scratch.code] (require x :reload) (in-ns x) x)
16:43	todun_	raek: this is the output I get.
16:43	todun_	http://pastebin.com/ZEd69Fm4
16:43	ibdknox	lol
16:43	ibdknox	todun_, it has to be the name of your namespace
16:44	raek	todun_: I think you called in-ns by accident before you called require
16:44	raek	todun_: that way you are now in an empty namespace with nothing in it. not even 'require'.
16:44	duck1123	todun_: isn't is 'scratch.core or did you rename?
16:44	raek	todun_: enter (in-ns 'user) to get back, and then call (doto 'scratch.code (require :reload) (in-ns)) again
16:45	cgray	it seems like my -main function is not exiting immediately when it's done running code... is there anything i can do to make it exit?
16:45	ibdknox	,(= 'scratch.code 'scratch.core)
16:45	raek	(I think in-ns is hard-coded into the repl)
16:45	clojurebot	false
16:45	amalloy	yes, in-ns and several other things
16:45	raek	cgray: sometimes you need to run (shutdown-agents)
16:47	cgray	raek: thanks, that worked
16:47	todun_	duck1123: I didn't rename it.
16:47	amalloy	raek: fwiw you don't have to get back to the user ns to do this; you could instead (clojure.core/require ...) from inside the "broken" ns
16:47	todun_	ibdknox: should I space out in-ns to in - ns ?
16:47	todun_	raek: ok. let me try that.
16:48	ibdknox	I think there are too many people telling you what to do :)
16:48	duck1123	todun_: unlike most languages, - is legal in variable names. The proper name is "in-ns"
16:49	todun_	raek: I get this error. http://pastebin.com/FpKqSk4V
16:49	ibdknox	amalloy, what triggers injecting clojure.core into a namespace?
16:49	todun_	duck1123: oh ok. thanks.
16:50	amalloy	ibdknox: nothing does. you can reference anything that's been loaded by fully-qualifying it
16:50	amalloy	or do you mean, in the non-broken case? like (ns foo)?
16:50	ibdknox	amalloy, yes
16:50	duck1123	todun_: you still have the namespace wrong. 'scratch.core
16:50	todun_	duck1123: I cd like so : http://pastebin.com/NEAY7T7C
16:51	amalloy	the ns macro has an implicit (refer 'clojure.core), whose parameters you can modify with the :refer-clojure directive
16:51	todun_	duck1123: yes. .core NOT .code! thanks
16:51	ibdknox	I see
16:51	amalloy	,(macroexpand '(ns test))
16:51	clojurebot	(do (clojure.core/in-ns (quote test)) (clojure.core/with-loading-context (clojure.core/refer (quote clojure.core))))
16:52	todun_	duck1123: raek thanks all!
16:52	amalloy	,(macroexpand '(ns test (:refer-clojure :only [inc])))
16:52	clojurebot	(do (clojure.core/in-ns (quote test)) (clojure.core/with-loading-context (clojure.core/refer-clojure (quote :only) (quote [inc]))))
16:52	amalloy	i think
16:52	todun_	duck1123: is this all I need to know to begin developing using emacs and 'lein repl' ?
16:52	ibdknox	haha I like the quote of a keyword
16:52	ibdknox	,(= :test ':test)
16:52	clojurebot	true
16:53	amalloy	ibdknox: just in case some future version of clojure makes keywords not self-evaluating, i'm sure...
16:54	ibdknox	amalloy, Planning for the future is important ;)
16:54	zerokarmaleft	todun_: that's a good start
16:54	duck1123	todun_: keep in mind, the emacs stuff isn't going to work if you're using lein repl
16:54	zerokarmaleft	todun_: you may find the cycle of reloading source files after you've changed them so you can test in your REPL to be a PITA
16:55	zerokarmaleft	hence the keybinding in slime/swank for that sort of thing
16:55	amalloy	ibdknox: macros write all kinds of silly code that programmers never would, of course
16:55	amalloy	(do (do (do (inc 1)))) :P
16:55	ibdknox	haha
16:55	ibdknox	yeah
16:56	ibdknox	I still love dnolen's first impl of match and the code it spit out
16:56	ibdknox	it was like 18 nested fn's
16:56	todun_	zerokarmaleft: oh ok. I wanted to know of the option just in case I needed to work without need of a text editor.
16:56	todun_	duck1123: emacs wont work if in lein repl, meaning?
16:57	technomancy	todun_: you can use it with lein repl, but it's kind of dumbed-down compared to swank
16:57	duck1123	C-c C-k and C-c M-p are swank commands
16:57	todun_	technomancy: use what with 'lein repl'?
16:58	amalloy	ibdknox: really? if you nest too many fns you actually get something that won't AOT-compile because the classfile's name is too long to write to disk
16:58	ibdknox	haha
16:58	ibdknox	amalloy, it is much better now
16:58	amalloy	&(class (for [_ [1] _ [1] _ [1] _ [1] _ [1] _ [1] ] (fn [])))
16:58	lazybot	⇒ clojure.lang.LazySeq
16:59	amalloy	&(class (first (for [_ [1] _ [1] _ [1] _ [1] _ [1] _ [1] ] (fn []))))
16:59	ibdknox	last I saw it generated some very reasonable code
16:59	lazybot	⇒ sandbox12208$eval15263$iter__15244__15264$fn__15265$iter__15246__15266$fn__15267$iter__15248__15268$fn__15269$iter__15250__15270$fn__15271$iter__15252__15272$fn__15273$iter__15254__15274$fn__15275$fn__15276$fn__15286
16:59	raek	whoa
16:59	technomancy	todun_: there's rudimentary emacs integration that works with lein repl
17:00	technomancy	(setq inferior-lisp-program "lein repl") ; in Emacs lisp, followed by M-x run-lisp
17:00	amalloy	and even that filename is less than 256 characters, i guess. but you can see how if you nested things too deep you could run into trouble
17:00	technomancy	that should probably be set by default
17:01	todun_	technomancy: oh ok. interesting. that way I wouldnt have to connect to a server.
17:01	todun_	right?
17:02	clojurebot	to be fair I dunno that I've ever had code out right rejected, it just sits in jira or assembla or where ever, or if I ask if there is any interest (before writing any code) I get told to go write alioth benchmarks
17:02	zerokarmaleft	haha
17:02	amalloy	clojurebot: i officially reject your code
17:02	clojurebot	code-review is <rhickey> yikes
17:02	technomancy	todun_: right. it's not as fancy, but it's easier to set up
17:02	ibdknox	lol
17:02	ibdknox	feisty little bastard
17:02	todun_	technomancy: ok. thanks for that.
17:03	amalloy	clojurebot: someone oughta teach you to respect your betters
17:03	clojurebot	Hello, wiseen
17:03	ibdknox	rofl
17:03	duck1123	todun_: really though, stick with swank until you get the hang of the basics
17:03	todun_	duck1123: how do I use the labrepl now that I have all this setup?
17:04	duck1123	It's good to know how to drive a stick shift, but when you're just learning to drive, an automatic is easier
17:05	ibdknox	&(println "clojurebot is annoying")
17:05	lazybot	⇒ clojurebot is annoying nil
17:06	ibdknox	I was hoping he might respond
17:06	ibdknox	it's not clear to me what gets clojurebot to say things
17:06	ibdknox	I guess I should look at the code sometime
17:06	amalloy	haha good luck with that
17:07	Raynes	I'm still trying to figure out what makes lazybot say things.
17:07	amalloy	from experience, though: (1) messages starting with ~ or clojurebot: (2) messages ending with ? (3) occasionally just for fun
17:07	todun_	duck1123: ok will do. thanks again.
17:07	todun_	thanks all.
17:07	technomancy	ibdknox: there's like a 1% chance he'll interpret any given line as being addressed to him
17:07	ibdknox	~hey
17:07	clojurebot	what's up
17:07	technomancy	(sorry to spoil the magic)
17:08	ibdknox	lol
17:08	ibdknox	aw
17:08	amalloy	though he's obviously pickier about (2) since he diesn't answer all questions
17:08	zerokarmaleft	only the questions where the answers are snarky
17:08	amalloy	haha
17:08	amalloy	clojurebot: are you a snark bot?
17:08	clojurebot	Thanks! Can I have chocolate next time
17:08	ibdknox	lol
17:08	amalloy	wow, really? snark<=>snack?
17:08	ibdknox	snark != snack
17:09	ibdknox	I wonder if it just matches first and last or something haha
17:09	Raynes	That's strange.
17:09	ibdknox	clojurebot, sna
17:09	clojurebot	Thanks! Can I have chocolate next time
17:09	ibdknox	clojurebot, s
17:09	clojurebot	lisp is the red pill
17:09	ibdknox	clojurebot, sn
17:09	clojurebot	I don't understand.
17:09	ibdknox	clojurebot, snalfgd
17:09	clojurebot	I don't understand.
17:09	ibdknox	hm
17:10	amalloy	clojurebot: ibdknox doesn't understand
17:10	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
17:10	ibdknox	haha
17:11	amalloy	clojurebot: you're not helping
17:11	clojurebot	Huh?
17:12	ibdknox	clojurebot, snamp
17:12	clojurebot	Pardon?
17:12	ibdknox	clojurebot, snam
17:12	clojurebot	Pardon?
17:12	ibdknox	wpw
17:12	ibdknox	wow*
17:12	ibdknox	wtf is the code that matches that
17:12	amalloy	ibdknox: in fairness you don't make any sense to me either
17:12	ibdknox	haha
17:13	ibdknox	amalloy, I'm talking gibberish most of the time, so that's fair
17:40	alpheus`	does vals return things in the same order as keys does or is the order undefined for both keys and vals
17:40	TimMc	,(doc vals)
17:40	technomancy	alpheus`: order is guaranteed to be the same if called on the same map.
17:40	clojurebot	"([map]); Returns a sequence of the map's values."
17:40	TimMc	,(doc keys)
17:40	clojurebot	"([map]); Returns a sequence of the map's keys."
17:41	TimMc	Should be doc'd, really.
17:41	technomancy	I think there's an open issue for it?
17:42	TimMc	Oh yeah, and how long does it usually take for a CA to get entered?
17:42	brehaut	TimMc: its not a short process
17:42	TimMc	:-/
17:43	alpheus`	technomancy: same map means identical map? or a map with the same keys?
17:43	amalloy	alpheus`: i think it has to mean identical
17:43	brehaut	TimMc: i think if you send one in, and then have some work you'd like to contribute and say you've sent one in, it'll get done as sooner
17:43	alpheus`	that's what I would have guessed.
17:44	brehaut	TimMc: call by need ;)
17:44	amalloy	since a given impl of IPersistent map can do whatever it wants for keys/vals, and can return a different impl of IPersistentMap for any call
17:44	amalloy	&(class (dissoc (hash-map :x 1) :x))
17:44	lazybot	⇒ clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap
17:45	TimMc	brehaut: Lazy loading? :-P
17:49	bsod1	I can't run example in this page of clojurescript https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/Quick-Start , I'm getting `cljs is not defined` error in chromium, any ideas?
17:49	amalloy	&(zipmap (keys {:a 1 :b 2}) (vals {:b 2 :a 1})) ;; alpheus`
17:49	lazybot	⇒ {:b 1, :a 2}
17:49	amalloy	i guess is the easiest proof that it doesn't hold for arbitrary maps
18:15	hiredman	"Using it as a library from Clojure apps is likely a minority case." <-- does this seem ridiculous to anyone else?
18:16	brehaut	hiredman: context?
18:16	ibdknox	hiredman, yes
18:17	ibdknox	that thread made me sad
18:17	hiredman	brehaut: rich talking about clojurescript
18:19	brehaut	its curious given that clojure itself is a library as much as it is a language tool
18:25	technomancy	rich criticizing imprecise use of the term "language tool" without actually defining it himself was kind of irritating
18:26	hiredman	rich … is kind of irritating
18:37	amalloy	i wonder what the majority case is supposed to be
18:39	hiredman	how dare anyone assume you can use clojure and clojurescript together
18:40	ibdknox	well, I think we're missing what matters
18:40	ibdknox	there won't be a majority case if it's not easy to use lol
18:41	technomancy	people are going to use maven releases of clojurescript; it's just a question of whether there will be an official one or if it'll be community-driven
18:41	brehaut	i would rather not return to that
18:41	technomancy	much like the entire CLI experience, actually
18:41	technomancy	deja vu
18:42	ibdknox	technomancy, yeah, and I'd rather it be official just to prevent us from having 30 cljs jars around
18:43	technomancy	ibdknox: as long as there's a strong community consensus I think that can be avoided
18:43	ibdknox	technomancy, fair enough
18:44	ibdknox	lol
18:44	hiredman	technomancy: https://twitter.com/#!/aemoncannon/status/124252083477155841 so when can we get this from slime?
18:45	technomancy	hiredman: heh; vals vs vars? so like ... clojure.lang.IRefs are all blue? =)
18:46	hiredman	lexical vs. global bindings
18:46	technomancy	ah! now there's a thought.
18:46	technomancy	M-. working on locals would be 100% badass
18:46	hiredman	uh, I don't care about that
18:47	hiredman	just make them different colors
18:47	technomancy	well, if you can tell the difference, you might as well offer nav aid too
18:47	technomancy	but yeah, both would be rad
18:47	hiredman	I guess
18:47	technomancy	I guess if you need M-. on locals you probably have functions bodies that are way too long for your own good
18:48	ibdknox	waaaaay too long
18:49	brehaut	ie core :P
18:49	todun	how to quit out of emacs nicely when using swank?
18:50	technomancy	todun: C-x C-c
18:51	todun	technomancy: but that doesn't work cleanly in that swank is still running.
18:52	technomancy	just tell it yes
18:52	hiredman	technomancy: depends how he is running swank
18:53	todun	hiredman: I'm running it with split window
18:53	brehaut	todun: the question is are you starting it from emacs (e.g. clojure-jack-in) or from lein
18:53	hiredman	using lein swank? clojure-jack-in? other?
18:54	technomancy	either way exiting emacs will not be harmful
18:55	duck1123	I've found that if I run swank in a terminal, when I kill emacs I get an exception in the terminal window, but it doesn't harm the app
18:55	todun	hiredman: clojure-jack-in
18:55	clojurebot	http://paste.lisp.org/display/74305
18:55	todun	technomancy: ok.
18:55	todun	duck1123: uhm. ok
18:56	hiredman	duck1123: right, it's just swanking complaining
18:57	todun	hiredman: ok. thanks.
18:57	todun	how do I get back to using labrepl?
18:57	hiredman	ugh
18:58	todun	I want to do its exercises but my local host can't connect t o it anymore
18:58	hiredman	does anyone maintain that?
18:58	todun	*clojure labs
18:58	todun	hiredman: clojure labs. sorry about that.
18:59	duck1123	hiredman: last activity 25 days ago
19:01	todun	actually I was right. it is called labrepl http://foognostic.net/labrepl-summary/
19:01	todun	it shows up in your local host as Clojure labs
19:04	ibdknox	the koans might be more interesting
19:04	todun	ibdknox: referring to me?
19:05	ibdknox	todun, yeah
19:05	ibdknox	easier to start with too
19:05	ibdknox	though the easiest is still try-clojure
19:05	ibdknox	or just messing around in clooj
19:06	todun	ibdknox: this https://github.com/functional-koans/clojure-koans ?
19:06	ibdknox	yep
19:06	todun	ok. thanks.
19:34	mabes	where does -?> live? I can never remember.. or is it ->?
19:34	brehaut	-?> is clojure.contrib.core i think
19:35	mabes	brehaut: thats it, thanks!
19:45	Viluin	hey guys
19:45	Viluin	could anyone help me out with a small problem?
19:46	TimMc	Viluin: Just go ahead and ask your question; if someone can help they will answer.
19:46	Viluin	clojure is really weird to me
19:47	amalloy	i don't think that's a question yet
19:47	Viluin	getting there :P
19:47	Viluin	http://pastebin.com/SfS1yRMy I was hoping this would return true if integer n was larger than the amount of characters in string s
19:47	Viluin	but it doesn't compile at all
19:47	Viluin	;x
19:48	TimMc	needs [] around the args
19:48	amalloy	prefix functions
19:48	amalloy	(< x y), not (x < y)
19:48	Viluin	oooh
19:48	TimMc	that too
19:48	Viluin	forgot about that
19:49	TimMc	I sometimes do that still. >_<
19:50	Viluin	(defn big [s n] ( < (count s) n)) just seems to return n, not a boolean
19:50	Viluin	err
19:50	Viluin	sorry, that wasnt true
19:51	Viluin	that was me failing to run it correctly
19:51	TimMc	,((fn [s n] (< (count s) n) "1234" 12)
19:51	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
19:51	TimMc	,((fn [s n] (< (count s) n)) "1234" 12) forgot a paren
19:51	clojurebot	true
19:51	Viluin	it seems to work
19:52	TimMc	Viluin: While we're on the topic, ##(< 1 2 3 4) is a way to check if a series of numbers is in increasing order.
19:52	lazybot	⇒ true
19:52	TimMc	(## is the bot trigger)
19:53	Viluin	I'm using ClojureBox on Windows, this is really cumbersome to work with
19:53	TimMc	and Clojure predicates don't always use true and false -- they may return logical false (nil or false) or logical true (everything else.)
19:53	Viluin	the REPL doesn't seem to support trivial things like copy-paste and pressing uparrow for the previous command
19:54	Viluin	hmm
19:54	TimMc	,(or nil 5 false)
19:54	clojurebot	5
19:55	Viluin	if there's only 1 arg does it still need [] around it?
19:55	amalloy	isn't clojurebox basically emacs? it supports all of those things, but in less-crazy ways than you might expect
19:55	Viluin	emacs, yes
19:55	Viluin	never used it before
19:55	TimMc	Viluin: Yes, it needs the []/
19:55	TimMc	.
19:55	amalloy	M-p and M-n do the actions you expect from the up/down arrows
19:56	Viluin	I have no idea what that means :\|
19:56	amalloy	alt-p/n
19:56	TimMc	M-p = Alt+p
19:56	TimMc	blah
19:56	Viluin	oh
19:57	Viluin	sometimes I wonder.. why?!
19:57	Viluin	uparrow works.
19:57	Viluin	why make it alt+p
19:57	duck1123	up arrow moves up, which is more what people expect
19:57	hiredman	because it's a text buffer like anyother, so you can use up/down to scroll around
19:57	TimMc	Viluin: For hysterical raisins.
19:58	TimMc	(historical reasons)
19:58	hiredman	find some old output, copy and paste it, etc
19:58	TimMc	Arrow keys and such do not always transmit well in terminals.
19:58	amalloy	TimMc: that is not true at all
19:58	TimMc	amalloy: Really?
19:58	amalloy	i mean, yes, they often don't transmit well in terminals
19:58	amalloy	but your claim that it's historical is nonsense
19:59	amalloy	it's because, as hiredman says, you want to be able to edit text in the buffer
20:00	Viluin	if I have a collection, how do I check to see if it's a map, list or vector?
20:00	TimMc	Viluin: You usually don't care.
20:00	Viluin	I really don't, just doing some practice assignments to get to know this thing
20:01	duck1123	,((juxt map? list? vector?) {})
20:01	clojurebot	[true false false]
20:03	Viluin	it's unclear to me what juxt does
20:03	amalloy	&(doc juxt)
20:03	lazybot	⇒ "([f] [f g] [f g h] [f g h & fs]); Alpha - name subject to change. Takes a set of functions and returns a fn that is the juxtaposition of those fns. The returned fn takes a variable number of args, and returns a vector containing the result of applying each fn to t... https://gist.github.com/1282995
20:04	amalloy	&((juxt inc dec) 1)
20:04	lazybot	⇒ [2 0]
20:04	Viluin	so it applies all the functions to the arg and returns all the results?
20:05	amalloy	well, it returns a function which, when called, will do that
20:05	clojurebot	anonymous functions are functions with no names
20:05	amalloy	good call, clojurebot
20:05	amalloy	&(let [do-math (juxt + - * /)] (do-math 10 20))
20:05	lazybot	⇒ [30 -10 200 1/2]
20:07	Viluin	hmm
20:07	Viluin	so if I want to write a function that determines the type of a collection
20:07	Viluin	can I just make three if statements that go like if (map? collection) "map" etc?
20:08	TimMc	You might look at cond or condp.
20:10	Viluin	what's the difference?
20:10	Viluin	wouldn't if statements work?
20:10	TimMc	Sure.
20:10	Viluin	coljure compiler errors are really good at providing absolutely no info about the error
20:10	Viluin	lol
20:23	amalloy	clojurebot: juxt is usually the right answer
20:23	clojurebot	Ok.
20:24	ibdknox	amalloy, what does that enable you to do?
20:24	amalloy	ibdknox: hm?
20:25	ibdknox	does telling clojurebot let you trigger him somehow?
20:25	amalloy	nod
20:25	ibdknox	~juxt
20:25	clojurebot	juxt is usually the right answer
20:25	ibdknox	I see
20:25	amalloy	amalloy: what's a good way to perform two functions on the same input?
20:25	amalloy	juxt?
20:25	clojurebot	juxt is usually the right answer
20:25	ibdknox	lol
20:25	ibdknox	fun
20:26	amalloy	ibdknox: this one's just for fun, of course, but in general it's a useful way to create canned replies
20:26	amalloy	clojurebot: where can i find zipWith?
20:26	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
20:26	amalloy	damn
20:26	ibdknox	haha
20:26	amalloy	clojurebot: zip?
20:26	clojurebot	zip is not necessary in clojure, because map can walk over multiple sequences, acting as a zipWith. For example, (map list '(1 2 3) '(a b c)) yields ((1 a) (2 b) (3 c))
20:26	brehaut	amalloy: why sporks?
20:26	ibdknox	~contrib
20:26	clojurebot	contrib is http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/tree/master
20:26	amalloy	brehaut: because you said it yesterday and i thought it was funny
20:27	Viluin	well I've had enough for tonight, heading off to bed, thanks for the help guys!
20:27	brehaut	fair enough
20:27	amalloy	clojurebot: forget contrib \|is\| http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/tree/master
20:27	clojurebot	I forgot that contrib is http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/tree/master
20:28	brehaut	clojurebot: tell me about contrib
20:28	clojurebot	contribute is http://clojure.org/contributing
20:30	ibdknox	contrib?
20:30	clojurebot	contribute is http://clojure.org/contributing
20:30	amalloy	clojurebot: where did contrib go?
20:30	clojurebot	well... it's a long story: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
20:31	ibdknox	ah
20:31	ibdknox	that's the one
20:31	duck1123	clojurebot: where's contrib?
20:31	clojurebot	http://clojure.org/contributing
20:31	ibdknox	I assume it's just a string match
20:32	amalloy	i think there is some fairy dust involved
20:32	duck1123	One of these days I want to try getting an Alicebot working in Clojure
20:32	amalloy	specifically he has some kind of database of "things", with a full-text index of all "things"
20:32	amalloy	and i don't understand full-text indexes, but i understand that he can look for "whatever is close to X"
20:33	amalloy	duck1123: is that different from eliza?
20:34	duck1123	amalloy: quite a bit more advanced, but same idea. A chat bot
20:34	duck1123	it used a XML language to define the bot's knowledge. Perfect job for a Clojure DSL
20:35	brehaut	duck1123: port it to core.logic
20:37	amalloy	mehhhhhh. the LA clojure usergroup made some desultory collaborative effort in this direction at https://github.com/Factual/eliza but it never really went anywhere. i think having a canonical way to represent the bot's knowledge isn't as interesting/flexible as having a ring-wrapper sort of architecture for it to make it more pluggable
22:08	zakwilson	A potential client just asked for examples of sites built with Clojure. While I think the question is stupid, I have to humor him. Any good examples I can use?
22:11	@chouser	zakwilson: I'm sure there are many. 4clojure.com is one
22:12	zakwilson	chouser: I'm aware there are likely hundreds. I just want a couple I can point at and say "See? These are nice and professional-looking.".
22:23	jkkramer	zakwilson: http://dev.clojure.org/display/community/Clojure+Success+Stories might help
22:23	zakwilson	jkkramer: thanks
22:40	darevay	For those that have been frustrated by vimclojure, here's my attempt at a "base" configuration that people can build from or sanity check: https://github.com/daveray/vimclojure-easy
23:06	srid	zakwilson: heroku uses clojure. checkout github.com/heroku/pulse which is their internal real-time operations dashboard
23:07	zakwilson	srid: thanks.
23:08	srid	dell uses clojure http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/d1b77050260340f6
23:53	brehaut	amalloy: how are passwords stored on 4clojure?
23:53	amalloy	$google jasypt
23:53	lazybot	[Jasypt: Java simplified encryption - Main] http://www.jasypt.org/
23:54	amalloy	brehaut: that is, we one-way hash them and store the hash. we don't do any salting afaict, so a replay attack would probably work? i'm not an expert in the area
23:55	brehaut	amalloy: cool, thats all i really wanted to know :)
23:55	amalloy	sweet
23:55	technomancy	clojurebot: how do you safely store passwords?
23:55	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
23:56	technomancy	clojurebot: how do you safely store passwords is <reply>bcrypt. http://codahale.com/how-to-safely-store-a-password/
23:56	clojurebot	Ok.
23:56	technomancy	but to be fair jasypt probably gives you a better deal than sha1
23:56	brehaut	that article must have insane google juice by now
23:58	technomancy	googlebot crawls our logs, right? =)
23:58	brehaut	its the primary source
23:59	technomancy	jkkramer: did you get my privmsgs?
23:59	dsantiago	This is probably a really dumb question, but why does (type '(+ 1 2)) return a PersistentList and (type `(+ 1 2)) return a Cons?
23:59	duck1123	~passwords
23:59	clojurebot	bcrypt. http://codahale.com/how-to-safely-store-a-password/
23:59	amalloy	dsantiago: ` does a lot of stuff
23:59	technomancy	dsantiago: basically you're never supposed to know there's a difference between the two classes
23:59	amalloy	&''(+ 1 2)
23:59	lazybot	⇒ (quote (+ 1 2))
23:59	technomancy	whatever you do, don't use the list? predicate
23:59	amalloy	&'`(+ 1 2)
23:59	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat (clojure.core/list (quote clojure.core/+)) (clojure.core/list 1) (clojure.core/list 2)))